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2016-10-01T00:12:38Z stassats: i'm so deep into yak shaving, i forgot where i started
2016-10-01T00:32:49Z fe[nl]ix: a yak fur coat ?
2016-10-01T00:33:15Z stassats: and a hat
2016-10-01T00:33:19Z stassats: and mittens
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2016-10-01T01:31:14Z slyrus: stassats: i've long though improvements to the sb-alien interface would be a good thing
2016-10-01T01:33:02Z nyef`: "Please don't break any of the undocumented internal bits that I'm using." d-:
2016-10-01T01:33:31Z nyef`: (And, more seriously, don't worry about my hacks in this case, they were for a target environment that I have no intention of ever returning to: Win32)
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2016-10-01T07:37:48Z iskander: hello #sbcl
2016-10-01T07:38:05Z iskander: when is the next release ? i was told the end of this week
2016-10-01T07:55:13Z Xof: yesterday
2016-10-01T07:56:21Z Xof: (I still have some bits and pieces to do to finish it up, but it was tagged, built and uploaded yesterday)
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2016-10-01T10:12:04Z iskander: thanks
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2016-10-01T11:15:14Z scymtym: does this look ok? https://github.com/scymtym/sbcl/compare/wip-report-nil~3...wip-report-nil
2016-10-01T11:16:02Z scymtym: in particular, does anybody know what SB-EXT:PROFILE was, is or is supposed by be?
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2016-10-01T12:54:39Z nyef`: scymtym: Isn't SB-EXT:PROFILE the non-sprof profiler?
2016-10-01T12:59:52Z scymtym: yes, i was wondering whether (trace ... :report sb-ext:profile) should actually be (trace ... :report sb-profile:profile) and then somehow integrate with the deterministic profiler
2016-10-01T13:01:15Z scymtym: i haven't been able to find a description of the intended behavior
2016-10-01T13:01:32Z Xof: I think it is prehistoric
2016-10-01T13:01:38Z Xof: something wnewman was thinking about at the time
2016-10-01T13:01:50Z Xof: not something that was ever implemented or acted on
2016-10-01T13:02:09Z scymtym: better remove that variant, then?
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2016-10-01T13:49:06Z stassats: i see why %sap-alien isn't inlined, it's a known function, so info :function :type returns the type, and not a defstruct-description
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2016-10-02T14:21:48Z scymtym: i'm not sure whether we discussed this already, but i think this shouldn't signal error: (funcall (lambda (&rest rest) (declare (optimize (safety 1))) (setf rest #(7)) (elt rest 0)))
2016-10-02T14:23:17Z scymtym: the problem is %REST-REF assuming that rest variables are only ever bound to lists
2016-10-02T14:37:15Z Xof: ha
2016-10-02T14:37:20Z Xof: we keep on being bitten by that
2016-10-02T14:37:34Z Xof: like with specializer variables in methods
2016-10-02T14:39:57Z scymtym: my tentative fix is transforming %REST-REF (back to) ELT instead of CAR/NTH unless LVAR-CONSERVATIVE-TYPE thinks it's a list
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2016-10-03T15:49:22Z stassats: interestingly, even the interrupted nanosleep sleeps the requested amount on darwin
2016-10-03T15:49:32Z stassats: on linux it includes the interrupt time
2016-10-03T15:50:05Z stassats: now, i reimplemented it nanosleep on darwin and it retains that behavior, but i could change that
2016-10-03T15:53:25Z stassats: except i don't really know how
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2016-10-03T17:07:18Z stassats: while testing using printf, turns out, printf is not reentrant
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2016-10-03T17:35:03Z stassats: and i'm getting a deadlock in another place
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2016-10-03T18:12:13Z stassats: looks like there is a failed aver in SB-IMPL::FLUSH-OUTPUT-BUFFER
2016-10-03T18:12:24Z stassats: then it tries to invoke the debugger and deadlocks
2016-10-03T18:12:32Z Xof: I think I knew that printf was not reentrant
2016-10-03T18:13:25Z stassats: deadlocks while SB-THREAD::GET-FOREGROUND
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2016-10-03T18:14:23Z stassats: well, i'm printing from three threads, so having broken streams is not entirely unexpected
2016-10-03T18:15:05Z stassats: Xof: yeah, not a big deal normally, but i used it to debug a re-entrancy problem
2016-10-03T18:16:32Z stassats: it seems like we can't call anything in signal handlers, just stash something using a CAS loop somewhere
2016-10-03T18:16:44Z stassats: and then have a sweeper thread deal with that
2016-10-03T18:16:59Z foom: Well, there is a list of functions you can call in a signal handler, but it's *tiny*.
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2016-10-03T18:18:38Z stassats: sleep() is one of them, but nanosleep is broken on darwin
2016-10-03T18:18:44Z stassats: and sleep on darwin calls nanosleep
2016-10-03T18:18:50Z stassats: so, clearly, that list isn't that good
2016-10-03T18:19:14Z foom: well, it's the list guaranteed by posix
2016-10-03T18:19:29Z foom: OSX claims to be posix compatible
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2016-10-03T18:19:36Z foom: But, like that ever meant anything
2016-10-03T18:19:41Z stassats: right
2016-10-03T18:20:09Z foom: OSX doesn't give a shit about the unix layer, unless it makes a pixel the wrong color
2016-10-03T18:21:37Z stassats: strangely, that flush-output-buffer aver only fails, apparently, when i bombard the threads with sigchld
2016-10-03T18:23:47Z stassats: if i don't print anything, my nanosleep seems to be doing its job
2016-10-03T18:27:37Z stassats: we only need to handle two signals reliably, sigchld and sigstop_for_gc
2016-10-03T18:27:57Z stassats: sigstop_for_gc can be avoided around foreign calls
2016-10-03T18:28:35Z stassats: and sigchld can just queue the stuff for some other thread
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2016-10-03T18:48:15Z stassats: ::: Running (:EXERCISING-CONCURRENT-SYSCALLS) seems to be hanging now
2016-10-03T18:48:59Z stassats: ok, it tries (sb-unix:nanosleep -1 0)
2016-10-03T19:01:41Z stassats: except that the test doesn't really have any relation to syscalls
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2016-10-03T19:16:29Z stassats: a segfault in a foreign thread gets transformed into kill(getpid(), signal);
2016-10-03T19:16:44Z stassats: questionable utility
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2016-10-03T19:40:56Z stassats: huh, (time (sb-ext:run-program "uname" () :search t)) takes 1 second under slime on osx
2016-10-03T19:41:05Z stassats: 0.004 without slime
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2016-10-03T19:43:41Z stassats: which is a serve-event timeout
2016-10-03T19:47:18Z stassats: bogus bogus, but i don't want to touch it
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2016-10-03T20:23:37Z dmitigr: stassats: it seems to me, that sb_nanosleep() does not check the case when nsec is negative -- nanosleep(2) sets errno to EINVAL if nanosecond value less than zero.
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2016-10-03T20:57:53Z stassats: ; 34:       D9CA             FXCH FR#<DISASSEM-STATE +9 in #<SB-DISASSEM:SEGMENT #X13EA272B..13EA27A3[120] in #<code object [1] (FLET FOOFUNC :IN TEST-2) {13EA26CF}>>>
2016-10-03T20:58:00Z stassats: forgot to fix that the last time around
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2016-10-03T23:40:44Z stassats: combination-implementation-style seems to be easily confused by casts
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2016-10-04T00:19:57Z stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/327704
2016-10-04T00:20:00Z stassats: that's not really great
2016-10-04T00:26:51Z stassats: substitute-let-funargs claims to be only concerned with functionals, so if i remove that i get the type propagated
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2016-10-04T06:36:25Z myrkraverk: dougk_: Did you commit the code-never-moves patch already?
2016-10-04T06:36:39Z stassats: no
2016-10-04T06:36:41Z myrkraverk: I think I want to start my lldb plugin thing Real Soon Now TM.
2016-10-04T06:36:56Z myrkraverk: Aww.
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2016-10-04T16:13:43Z jasom: Any chance this might get merged in sometime? https://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/mailman/message/33280052/
2016-10-04T16:15:54Z stassats: i think i'd like to see some compression scheme included in the sources
2016-10-04T16:15:58Z stassats: license compatible
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2016-10-04T16:24:48Z attila_lendvai restarts the build after a botched line in the wscript
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2016-10-04T16:36:02Z jasom: stassats: my original version did that, but it's a bit out of date now.  It's BSD licensed according to the readme; not sure which BSD yet
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2016-10-04T16:40:20Z jasom: 2 clause BSD; should be compatible
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2016-10-04T16:46:42Z stassats: i'm sick of not being able to stop broken builds
2016-10-04T16:46:59Z stassats: it proceeds building after aborting, resulting in constant C-c C-c
2016-10-04T16:47:07Z stassats: need to approach that somehow
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2016-10-04T17:38:03Z foom: You need to not catch SIGINT, or if you do, when you then quit, quit by setting SIGINT back to SIG_DFL, and resignaling.
2016-10-04T17:38:27Z foom: cracauer wrote a doc about this like a decade ago. :)
2016-10-04T17:38:47Z stassats: foom: even without sigint, just selecting an abort restart should stop the build
2016-10-04T17:39:07Z stassats: instead it proceeds and requires a C-c
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2016-10-04T17:39:40Z stassats goes and sprinkles some errors into code
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2016-10-04T18:27:53Z stassats: ok, now i have a restart   3:            Abort building SBCL.
2016-10-04T18:28:04Z stassats: i wish it were the first abort restart, but it'll do
2016-10-04T18:38:45Z stassats: working nicely
2016-10-04T18:39:12Z stassats: i should have done that years ago, so much wasted time
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2016-10-04T18:50:38Z stassats: scymtym__: i'm removing --disable-debugger from the default option to the build host, you may have to adjust your auto build scripts
2016-10-04T18:54:04Z stassats: blimey, if i get interrupt SBCL and then continue, the shell exits with 130
2016-10-04T18:55:03Z stassats: even if i specifically do exit 0
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2016-10-04T18:56:12Z scymtym__: stassats: thanks for the heads up, i will have a look
2016-10-04T18:56:38Z stassats: scymtym__: not pushed yet, that pesky siginit issue
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2016-10-04T18:59:24Z stassats: set -m seems to help
2016-10-04T18:59:27Z stassats: now, how standard is that
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2016-10-04T19:17:24Z stassats: ok, pushed
2016-10-04T19:19:03Z scymtym__: will be included in next build in around two hours
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2016-10-04T19:32:38Z stassats: added a recompile restart around LOAD
2016-10-04T19:32:51Z stassats: so that simple stuff can be fixed without restarting, finally
2016-10-04T19:32:57Z stassats: (compile-file already had it)
2016-10-04T19:41:29Z stassats: need to remember other annoyances while i'm at it
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2016-10-04T22:00:21Z scymtym: i don't know when or if this will become mandatory, but apparently sbcl can't build with some planned "hardening" options: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=837576
2016-10-04T22:01:15Z stassats: arm64 needs nopie too then
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2016-10-04T22:43:29Z knobo: How about implementing %remf like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/327753
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2016-10-04T22:44:01Z knobo: Then remf would return the cons that contains the key value pair that is removed
2016-10-04T22:44:11Z knobo: a bit like pop does.
2016-10-04T22:45:24Z knobo: Maybe this version could be faster also. Since the current %remf does more pop than this version.
2016-10-04T22:46:04Z knobo: or maybe not.
2016-10-04T22:47:24Z knobo: If this is interesting, I can work more on it.
2016-10-04T22:47:26Z |3b|: does that error ever trigger?
2016-10-04T22:47:54Z |3b|: seems like BY #'CDDR would skip over odd-length lists, and give a generic error on improper lists
2016-10-04T22:48:28Z knobo: right.
2016-10-04T22:51:46Z knobo: should do more tests.
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2016-10-04T22:57:11Z |3b|: actually does it ever work correctly? :p
2016-10-04T22:59:17Z |3b|: seems to error if removing first pair, returns improper list when removing later pairs or not finding indicator
2016-10-04T23:01:23Z |3b|: and removes everything after matched pair?
2016-10-04T23:01:38Z |3b|: (also returns values in opposite order of %REMF)
2016-10-04T23:10:42Z knobo: Looks like I'll make new version tomorrow. Got to sleep now.
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2016-10-04T23:36:52Z knobo: This one might work in (some cases) until tomorrow. http://paste.lisp.org/display/327753#1
2016-10-04T23:38:29Z knobo: http://paste.lisp.org/display/327753#2 without a debug print
2016-10-04T23:39:26Z knobo: or, jsut forget it.
2016-10-04T23:39:31Z knobo: I'm just too tired.
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2016-10-04T23:53:54Z |3b|: returning NIL instead of erroring when PLIST isn't a list seems odd
2016-10-04T23:57:22Z |3b|: and the empty list test seems to fail here
2016-10-04T23:58:35Z |3b|: as far as the actual feature (returning the removed key/value), as a user it seems like a nice feature, but one i probably wouldn't use since i usually want portable code :/
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2016-10-05T00:50:48Z scymtym: seems like clisp has a problem with disabled job control: https://ci.cor-lab.org/job/sbcl-master/featureset=6,label=ubuntu_trusty_32bit/1781/console
2016-10-05T00:56:24Z |3b|:  #+clisp (ccl:quit code) looks suspicious :p
2016-10-05T00:56:54Z |3b|: as does lack of #+ccl clause
2016-10-05T00:57:33Z |3b|: (in loader.lisp from stassats changed 6 hrs ago)
2016-10-05T00:59:28Z |3b|: clisp apparently wants one of ext:exit, ext:quit, or ext:bye in place of ccl:quit
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2016-10-05T01:03:15Z stassats: |3b|: fixed
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2016-10-05T07:28:20Z myrkraverk: Is make-alien-string buggy?
2016-10-05T07:28:34Z myrkraverk: It seems to be supposed to return two values, but all I get is one.
2016-10-05T07:28:42Z myrkraverk: That is, the length of the string is always nil.
2016-10-05T07:28:46Z myrkraverk: Or am I doing it wrong?
2016-10-05T07:29:19Z myrkraverk: (multiple-value-bind (b l) (make-alien-string "foo") (format t "~a ~a~%" b l)) ; --> SAP NIL
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2016-10-05T08:04:44Z scymtym: myrkraverk: looks like a bug to me. after making a test, i can push a fix
2016-10-05T08:04:49Z myrkraverk: And while that's being fixed, can I ask for a function that takes alien bytes and returns a lisp string?
2016-10-05T08:04:54Z myrkraverk: scymtym: thanks.
2016-10-05T08:05:16Z myrkraverk: Unfortunately, I couldn't build SBCL myself last time, so I don't know when I can actually benefit from the fix.
2016-10-05T08:05:31Z myrkraverk: Hopefully as soon as mac ports picks up the patch.
2016-10-05T08:06:29Z myrkraverk: Because this looks quite ugly, to me: (cffi:foreign-string-to-lisp (sb-alien:alien-sap buffer ) :count (sb-alien:deref len)))
2016-10-05T08:07:29Z myrkraverk: That is, when I use sb-posix:read, I have to jump through too many hoops to get the actual string value.
2016-10-05T08:11:01Z scymtym: myrkraverk: when did you try to build sbcl? i know little about building or running sbcl on macos but there have been fixes recently
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2016-10-05T08:11:57Z myrkraverk: scymtym: I was trying to build 1.3.9 a month or two ago.
2016-10-05T08:12:33Z myrkraverk: I can try to build the current source today.
2016-10-05T08:12:36Z myrkraverk: I think.
2016-10-05T08:14:43Z scymtym: there have been some changes within the last two weeks that could be relevant
2016-10-05T08:18:02Z myrkraverk: Yeah, I'll try to give it another try today, or at least this week.
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2016-10-05T08:22:10Z scymtym: myrkraverk: do you want to be credited for reporting the bug?
2016-10-05T08:22:52Z myrkraverk: You can just use myrkraverk, or do you want my real name?
2016-10-05T08:23:07Z scymtym: that's up to you
2016-10-05T08:23:25Z myrkraverk: Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson
2016-10-05T08:23:27Z myrkraverk: works fine.
2016-10-05T08:23:36Z scymtym: ok, thanks
2016-10-05T08:37:34Z myrkraverk: Or, alternatively, is there a way to make octets-to-string read from alien memory?
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2016-10-05T09:00:04Z scymtym: i only know of the internal function C-STRING-TO-STRING: (sb-alien::c-string-to-string SAP :utf-8 'character)
2016-10-05T09:02:07Z myrkraverk: Hmm, ok.  I'll try to dig into this later and maybe contribute sb-alien:make-lisp-string.
2016-10-05T09:03:01Z scymtym: well, maybe there is a proper way already, but i use sb-alien rarely, so i wouldn't know
2016-10-05T09:04:57Z myrkraverk: I didn't find anything obvious about creating Lisp strings from alien data.
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2016-10-05T10:54:30Z Xof: (cast alien c-string)
2016-10-05T10:55:28Z Xof: e.g. [ don't try this at home ] (define-alien-routine strcpy (* char) (dest c-string) (src c-string)) (strcpy (make-string 3) "foo") (cast * c-string)
2016-10-05T10:56:09Z jackdaniel: is holding-mutex-p documented somewhere (/me find reference to it in sbcl's manual, but no funciton description)
2016-10-05T10:57:35Z jackdaniel: (I see the sources, just was suprised that I couldn't find it)
2016-10-05T10:57:51Z jackdaniel: in the manual
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2016-10-05T12:16:15Z myrkraverk: Xof: thanks.  A quick test confirms it: (define-alien-routine "clang_getClangVersion" (* char)) (cast (clang-getclangversion) c-string) ; ==> "clang version 3.7.1 (tags/RELEASE_371/final)"
2016-10-05T12:17:30Z myrkraverk: Though, tbh, I don't know why that works, since clang_getClangVersion is documented to return something called CXString, and accessed with casting functions in C.
2016-10-05T12:18:55Z attila_lendvai: out of luck then... :) due to a lucky memory layout matching char*
2016-10-05T12:19:06Z myrkraverk: Haha, yes.
2016-10-05T12:19:23Z myrkraverk: But, can I use that when the string in question is not 0 terminated?
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2016-10-05T12:20:29Z myrkraverk: It's apparently supposed to be wrapped like this: clang_getCString( version ); // where version was returned from clang_getClangVersion().
2016-10-05T12:20:54Z attila_lendvai: I don't think so, c-string most probably assumes zero termination, otherwise it didn't know the length from anywhere else
2016-10-05T12:21:24Z myrkraverk: Yeah, I mean, can I use (cast ...) with some type that specifies the length?
2016-10-05T12:22:52Z myrkraverk: Like there's (make-alien char 10) -- assume I fill that with non-zero terminated string, can I convert that back into a lisp string?
2016-10-05T12:26:39Z attila_lendvai: myrkraverk: doesn't make-alien merely malloc the given size of buffer? without storing any other extra info, like the length? it's like C after all...
2016-10-05T12:26:52Z stassats: myrkraverk: (cast alien c-string)
2016-10-05T12:27:30Z myrkraverk: stassats: Yes, that works for zero terminated strings.  But what if my string isn't zero terminated?
2016-10-05T12:27:46Z myrkraverk: attila_lendvai: in that case, I know the length of the character array, because I allocated it.
2016-10-05T12:28:04Z myrkraverk: And in some other cases, like the NSS cryptographic functions, they return the length with the pointer.
2016-10-05T12:34:28Z stassats: convert to ub8 vector, do sb-ext:octets-to-string
2016-10-05T12:34:44Z myrkraverk: How do I convert to ub8 vection?
2016-10-05T12:34:47Z myrkraverk: *vector
2016-10-05T12:36:37Z myrkraverk: Do I have other tools than sb!kernel:copy-ub8-from-system-area ?
2016-10-05T12:36:55Z stassats: clhs loop
2016-10-05T12:36:55Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm
2016-10-05T12:37:00Z stassats: clhs aref
2016-10-05T12:37:00Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_aref.htm
2016-10-05T12:37:04Z stassats: clhs setf
2016-10-05T12:37:04Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_setf_.htm
2016-10-05T12:38:53Z myrkraverk: Well, yeah -- hand rolling my own is possible too.
2016-10-05T12:40:03Z myrkraverk: The reason not to do that is to use the memory copy instructions (where available).  So I usually try hard not to hand roll my own octet copy routines.
2016-10-05T12:40:33Z stassats: you should also try hard not to use internal unsupported routines
2016-10-05T12:40:39Z stassats: which copy-ub8-from-system-area is
2016-10-05T12:40:40Z myrkraverk: True.
2016-10-05T12:41:15Z myrkraverk: Though I was thinking about contributing functions to sb-alien -- for which using internal functions would be "ok".
2016-10-05T12:42:25Z myrkraverk: But whether you guys want to accept such functions is a totally different question.
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2016-10-05T17:19:48Z mordocai: I was talking to someone on #lisp and we're both getting weird behavior with sbcl and their attempt at writing a CFFI wrapper for graphicsmagickwand(http://www.graphicsmagick.org/wand/wand.html). I'm not very familiar with CFFI but the same code "works"(does not cause an error on loading) on CCL and ECL. Their getting a segmentation fault, i'm just getting a "freeze"(sbcl sits using 100% of one core and never gives a repl). Info:
2016-10-05T17:19:48Z mordocai: http://paste.lisp.org/display/327791 (my repl session is up top and the code is at bottom). Thoughts? x86_64 sbcl 1.3.1 tried by them and debian's 1.3.7 by myself.
2016-10-05T17:22:36Z mordocai: They report that it works for 32 bit but I haven't gotten more information from that like what sbcl version etc
2016-10-05T17:24:33Z muyinliu: Also works fine on Mac OS X 10.10.5(64bit) with SBCL v1.2.11
2016-10-05T17:28:56Z muyinliu: Works fine on CentOS 5.8 Final 32bit with SBCL v1.1.18.
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2016-10-05T17:39:40Z stassats: mordocai: myrkraverk magic does this http://hg.code.sf.net/p/graphicsmagick/code/file/2fbcee967dd8/magick/magick.c#l1022
2016-10-05T17:39:46Z stassats: pretty bonkers for a library
2016-10-05T17:40:38Z stassats: i always had the impression that it was poorly designed
2016-10-05T17:40:53Z stassats: having seen so many security issues reported
2016-10-05T17:43:40Z stassats: although it tries to avoid stepping on existing signals handlers
2016-10-05T17:46:56Z foom: it fails
2016-10-05T17:47:12Z muyinliu: Delete lines within `#if defined(SIGSEGV)` and `#endif` would help or NOT?
2016-10-05T17:47:32Z foom: It blows away your signal handler, checks if the previous handler != SIG_DFL, and if so, sets your handler back, with some different set of SA flags
2016-10-05T17:47:42Z foom: Awesomesauce
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2016-10-05T17:48:23Z stassats: there you go
2016-10-05T17:51:37Z stassats: but why on earth does it touch signals handlers at all?
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2016-10-05T17:53:51Z Shinmera: The only reference to that that I can find is on http://www.graphicsmagick.org/NEWS.html : "Signal handling is now more robust and handles SIGSEGV and other critical signals. The sole purpose of the default signal handling is to remove any temporary files and quit. An informative message is printed for signals other than SIGINT."
2016-10-05T17:54:34Z stassats: have they heard of unlinking files?
2016-10-05T17:54:46Z stassats: and continuing using them
2016-10-05T17:54:48Z foom: presumably these are output files
2016-10-05T17:54:54Z Shinmera: That doesn't work on Windows.
2016-10-05T17:55:09Z Shinmera: But yeah on Linux...
2016-10-05T17:55:39Z foom: you can't re-link a file after unlinking it, at least on most OSes.
2016-10-05T17:56:23Z stassats: it doesn't really matter, it's not an SBCL problem anyway
2016-10-05T17:57:20Z stassats: and i can see this being done for a program, but not for a library
2016-10-05T17:59:04Z stassats: and for sigint only, deleting stuff on sigsegv or sigbus is not a great idea
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2016-10-05T18:00:31Z muyinliu: I'm trying to remove those line and rebuild.
2016-10-05T18:01:07Z stassats: remove the whole InitializeMagickSignalHandlers
2016-10-05T18:02:48Z muyinliu: stassats: GraphicsMagick 1.3.18 contains `InitializeMagickSignalHandlers` but dosen't contains `#if defined(SIGBUS)` and `#if defined(SIGSEGV)`
2016-10-05T18:03:27Z muyinliu: GraphicsMagick 1.3.18 works fine on Linux 64bit system.
2016-10-05T18:04:43Z stassats: muyinliu: yes, as Shinmera pointed out it's a recent change
2016-10-05T18:06:51Z mordocai said in #lisp before he asked here that usually when he comes here it turns out not to be an actual sbcl problem.
2016-10-05T18:07:05Z mordocai: The pattern continues... people do shitty things which then mess up when sbcl uses them
2016-10-05T18:07:09Z muyinliu: stassats: After remove those lines, it finally works fine!!!!! Thanks.
2016-10-05T18:07:21Z mordocai grumbles about shitty code/libraries
2016-10-05T18:07:29Z muyinliu: Shinmera: Thank you!
2016-10-05T18:08:11Z stassats: someone should report this
2016-10-05T18:08:20Z mordocai: stassats: As usual you are very helpful even when the problem isn't actually sbcl, thank you.
2016-10-05T18:08:45Z stassats: mordocai: well, i thought it was a problem with sbcl initially
2016-10-05T18:08:59Z muyinliu: mordocai: Thank you too.
2016-10-05T18:09:24Z muyinliu: You guys are great!!!
2016-10-05T18:09:24Z mordocai: Yeah, it looked like an sbcl issue at first for sure.
2016-10-05T18:09:49Z stassats: so many "thank yous", ugh, tone it down!
2016-10-05T18:11:47Z muyinliu: stassats: This issue took me 3 months and finally get solved! You help me a lot.
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2016-10-05T22:15:32Z knobo: Before it's night again, I tested my remf method again. http://paste.lisp.org/display/327753#3
2016-10-05T22:18:43Z stassats: what does that do to remf? make it faster?
2016-10-05T22:20:02Z |3b| thought the original idea was to return a "useful" value for "true" instead of just T, with speed as a possible side effect
2016-10-05T22:20:07Z knobo: no, it returns the (:key . value) instead of t
2016-10-05T22:20:13Z stassats: what for?
2016-10-05T22:20:20Z knobo: like pop
2016-10-05T22:20:42Z Quadresce: PLACE and INDICATOR are swapped!
2016-10-05T22:20:47Z Quadresce: PLIST*
2016-10-05T22:21:03Z |3b|: pretty sure i've wanted that in the past, but like i said probably wouldn't have used it if it were implementation specific anyway :/
2016-10-05T22:21:07Z stassats: i won't accept such a change to remf, because it will produce unportable code
2016-10-05T22:21:43Z |3b|: stassats: sbcl already has some things like that
2016-10-05T22:21:46Z knobo: well, my remf is the implementation of %remf
2016-10-05T22:22:11Z |3b| wishes (setf logbitp) were portable too, not just an sbcl extension
2016-10-05T22:22:31Z Quadresce: Treating generalized boolean as strictly boolean for return values is probably a good policy.
2016-10-05T22:22:40Z stassats: and to return (:key . value) it has to cons
2016-10-05T22:22:57Z knobo: stassats: like what.
2016-10-05T22:23:01Z knobo: ?
2016-10-05T22:23:08Z stassats: what like what?
2016-10-05T22:23:20Z |3b| didn't notice the consing, that i'd object to... i thought it just returned the existing cons
2016-10-05T22:23:24Z knobo: cons like what?
2016-10-05T22:23:49Z Quadresce: knobo, you call CONS
2016-10-05T22:24:06Z knobo: hmm. I did not know.
2016-10-05T22:24:18Z |3b|: does it?
2016-10-05T22:24:21Z Quadresce: nvm I didn't read the code, sorry
2016-10-05T22:25:24Z stassats: moreover, it won't be portable to earlier version of sbcl, so, this is a no go
2016-10-05T22:25:39Z stassats: moreover, a portable version can be written without any efficiency compromises
2016-10-05T22:26:37Z knobo: well, the efficiency lies in that I don't have to do getf first, then remf after. So It is in the usage.
2016-10-05T22:27:06Z stassats: it's not related to sbcl, i suggest you discuss it in #lisp
2016-10-05T22:29:46Z knobo: ok. The idea was that it could be implemented without breaking the spesification made me wonder if it could be implemented in sbcl. But I see the point about not beeing portable to earier versions of sbcl.
2016-10-05T22:30:34Z stassats: you already have myremf, you don't need it to be incorporated into sbcl or any other implementation
2016-10-05T22:30:38Z knobo: I could just keep it in my toolbox anyway.
2016-10-05T22:31:17Z knobo names it popremf
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2016-10-06T09:13:22Z myrkraverk: Ok, mentioning this here, because #lisp is silent, and this might be another SBCL bug.
2016-10-06T09:13:31Z myrkraverk: Why does (with-alien ...) behave differently from (make-alien) with the type (array char 10) ?
2016-10-06T09:13:39Z myrkraverk: (make-alien (array char 10)) ; ==> #<SB-ALIEN-INTERNALS:ALIEN-VALUE :SAP #X00600000 :TYPE (* (ARRAY  (SB-ALIEN:SIGNED10))>
2016-10-06T09:13:46Z myrkraverk: (with-alien ((b (array char 10))) b) ; ==> #<SB-ALIEN-INTERNALS:ALIEN-VALUE :SAP #X053FFFE8 :TYPE (ARRAY (SB-ALIEN:SIGNED10)>
2016-10-06T09:13:53Z myrkraverk: With identical data types, the * is "lost".
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2016-10-06T10:00:46Z scymtym: myrkraverk: i rarely use sb-alien, but i think of (make-alien TYPE) as the equivalent of "new TYPE" (i.e. /pointer/ to heap-allocated data) and (with-alien ((NAME TYPE) ...) ...) as the equivalent of having a local variable "{ TYPE NAME; ... }" (i.e. a /variable/ bound to stack allocated data)
2016-10-06T10:01:43Z myrkraverk: Fair enough, but it means I can't use (with-alien ...) for sb-posix:read -- or at least not in my experiments.
2016-10-06T10:02:30Z myrkraverk: And that was the surprising behaviour.
2016-10-06T10:06:50Z scymtym: there is sb-alien:addr which can obtain pointers to stack-allocated foreign values. see http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Step_002dBy_002dStep-Example-of-the-Foreign-Function-Interface
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2016-10-06T13:43:44Z myrkraverk: scymtym: Hmm, ok.  To late, I've already done what I wanted with (make-alien ...) but I'll keep addr in mind for later.
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2016-10-06T18:14:01Z stassats: looking at that gc_alloc_update_all_page_tables patch
2016-10-06T18:14:06Z stassats: it's not at all obvious
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2016-10-06T18:24:16Z stassats: ok, i should have just read the bug ticket and not stare at the patch
2016-10-06T18:26:17Z stassats: but do we need to update all page tables more than once?
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2016-10-06T18:46:58Z stassats: found a gc regression in the meantime
2016-10-06T18:47:01Z stassats: performance
2016-10-06T18:49:00Z stassats: or a non gc regression, but the test is from gc.impure
2016-10-06T18:53:20Z stassats: ok, a WRITE-SEQUENCE regression
2016-10-06T18:57:23Z stassats: stream-element-type-stream-element-mode calls subtypep
2016-10-06T18:57:30Z stassats: three times
2016-10-06T18:57:36Z stassats: make that four
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2016-10-06T19:39:30Z stassats: ok, just about fixed
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2016-10-06T19:44:00Z stassats: the same gc.impure helps me found a regression for the second time
2016-10-06T19:44:15Z stassats: (last time it was a gc regression)
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2016-10-06T20:01:00Z scymtym: i introduced the stream element mode stuff specifically to avoid SUBTYPEP calls in {READ,WRITE}-SEQUENCE :(
2016-10-06T20:09:41Z stassats: i made it fast for common cases, made not be called for string streams
2016-10-06T20:09:50Z stassats: combined streams can still end up calling it
2016-10-06T20:10:03Z stassats: can cache it for them if all streams are ansi
2016-10-06T20:10:46Z scymtym: right, i targeted ansi-streams
2016-10-06T20:11:12Z stassats: it got slow on string streams, which are ansi
2016-10-06T20:11:55Z scymtym: maybe only fd-streams, then. i already forgot
2016-10-06T20:12:09Z stassats: (stream-element-type (make-broadcast-stream (make-string-output-stream) (make-broadcast-stream))) => T
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2016-10-06T20:12:19Z stassats: (stream-element-type (make-broadcast-stream (make-broadcast-stream) (make-string-output-stream))) => CHARACTER
2016-10-06T20:12:30Z stassats: why on earth?
2016-10-06T20:13:45Z stassats: especially that i caused that
2016-10-06T20:14:10Z scymtym: same result here
2016-10-06T20:14:33Z stassats: yes, it came from reading the code
2016-10-06T20:14:41Z stassats: and writing it two years ago
2016-10-06T20:14:44Z stassats: what was i thinking?
2016-10-06T20:15:43Z stassats: actually, i just simplified the existing behavior
2016-10-06T20:16:46Z scymtym: couldn't it form the intersection of the slave stream element types?
2016-10-06T20:17:00Z stassats: no
2016-10-06T20:17:01Z stassats: it's clhs
2016-10-06T20:17:10Z stassats: "* stream-element-type returns the value from the last component stream, or t if there are no component streams."
2016-10-06T20:17:24Z stassats: but, that makes stream-element-mode kinda wrong
2016-10-06T20:18:40Z scymtym: the whole issue turns out to be much more complicated than i expected
2016-10-06T20:19:47Z stassats: i think element-mode shouldn't be invoked on combined streams at all
2016-10-06T20:20:26Z stassats: and write-sequence should by mapped onto each sub-stream
2016-10-06T20:27:45Z stassats: ok, pushed the speed improvements, now onto correctness of broadcast-stream element-mode
2016-10-06T20:28:21Z stassats: i don't think there's actually any demonstrable problem with it
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2016-10-06T20:29:00Z stassats: if a stream is bivalent, then it doesn't matter if it selects a specialized versions, if it selects the wrong version and a stream is not bivalent, it would error anyway
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2016-10-06T20:33:47Z stassats: echo stream does (and type1 type2)
2016-10-06T20:34:34Z stassats: ok, i don't want to think about this anymore
2016-10-06T20:34:52Z stassats: but whatever the right answer is it should be cached
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2016-10-06T23:12:40Z shrdlu68: How is (defvar *device* (open "/dev/ttyUSB0" :direction :output :if-exists :append :element-type 'character)) (format *device* "AT+CGMM~C" #\return) different from echo -en 'AT+CGMM\r' > /dev/ttyUSB0 ?
2016-10-06T23:13:17Z shrdlu68: The former does not seem to do anything, the latter works, I get a reaction from ttyUSB0, which is a modem.
2016-10-06T23:13:39Z Quadresce: shrdlu68, did you try (finish-output *device*) after doing the FORMAT call?
2016-10-06T23:13:54Z stassats: well, > is not append
2016-10-06T23:13:57Z stassats: for one thing
2016-10-06T23:15:32Z shrdlu68: Quadresce: I did, but I didn't specify the stream 0_o. That's it, then.
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2016-10-07T01:26:05Z csziacobus: what was the rationale for splitting continuations into ctran and lvars?
2016-10-07T01:29:38Z nyef: AIUI, they're used somewhat differently overall.
2016-10-07T01:30:09Z nyef: I'm not sure of the details, though, it was slightly before I started working on SBCL.
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2016-10-07T10:51:59Z Shinmera: Does SBCL have a logo of some kind?
2016-10-07T10:56:09Z jackdaniel: I doubt this counts as logo: http://www.sbcl.org/sbclbutton.png
2016-10-07T10:56:53Z Shinmera: Yeah, I saw that, but wasn't sure if there was something more.. substantial.
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2016-10-07T10:59:59Z myrkraverk: should I see about commissioning an artist to make a logo?
2016-10-07T11:00:18Z myrkraverk: I don't know how many I know here, but I can do it if you guys want to.
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2016-10-07T11:00:35Z myrkraverk: Or at least, talk to some artists and see if anything happens.
2016-10-07T11:01:21Z Shinmera: I'm an artist, so I could make one myself if need be.
2016-10-07T11:02:38Z myrkraverk: Now I keep wondering what kind of anime character would fit Steel Banks Common Lisp.
2016-10-07T11:03:00Z Shinmera: Please no
2016-10-07T11:03:04Z myrkraverk: But i just draw up a blank -- and I think the Japanese mostly draw characters for operating systems.
2016-10-07T11:03:32Z jackdaniel started thinking about anime characters fitting sbcl :D
2016-10-07T11:03:42Z myrkraverk: Hahahaha.
2016-10-07T11:03:59Z myrkraverk: For a logo, I just think about I beams and safes.
2016-10-07T11:04:40Z Shinmera: I'll see if I can come up with something over the next few days.
2016-10-07T11:04:52Z myrkraverk: Great.
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2016-10-07T12:11:33Z jdz: Zaraki Kenpachi
2016-10-07T12:16:01Z fe[nl]ix: jackdaniel: guess the series from http://i.imgur.com/HMGatSm.jpg
2016-10-07T12:17:13Z jackdaniel: lain?
2016-10-07T12:17:19Z fe[nl]ix: hahaha
2016-10-07T12:17:20Z fe[nl]ix: yes
2016-10-07T12:17:27Z jackdaniel: :-)
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2016-10-07T17:22:47Z stassats: oops, missed an AND in array-equal-p
2016-10-07T17:22:58Z stassats: (foo (make-array '(10 20)) #(1 2 3)) => memory fault, nice
2016-10-07T17:23:03Z stassats: s/foo/equalp/
2016-10-07T17:26:30Z stassats: don't really know how to write a test for this, though
2016-10-07T17:31:13Z stassats: and discovered it by reading the code
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2016-10-08T03:12:40Z dougk__: how would people feel about --noinform also suppressing the 'writing ... bytes from space' in save-lisp-and-die ?
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2016-10-08T03:13:24Z dougk__: the idea is that the flag should mean that the C runtime is minimally visible, in the style of a typically silent unix utility
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2016-10-08T09:02:45Z myrkraverk: Ok, I'm trying to compile what I believe to be the latest checkout from git.
2016-10-08T09:02:50Z myrkraverk: And I still get this error: ld: library not found for -lgcc_s.10.4
2016-10-08T09:02:54Z myrkraverk: Why is this happening?
2016-10-08T09:02:57Z myrkraverk: On OS X.
2016-10-08T09:03:33Z myrkraverk: Does it not work to compile with clang?
2016-10-08T09:04:32Z Shinmera: dougk_: Not sure how much my input is worth, but as an average user I don't even really know what the output that s-l-a-d prints means to me, so I wouldn't mind if it went away either.
2016-10-08T09:12:06Z myrkraverk: Ok, it built with this.
2016-10-08T09:12:08Z myrkraverk: SBCL_MACOSX_VERSION_MIN=10.10 sh make.sh
2016-10-08T09:12:17Z myrkraverk: Which was a memory hog last time.
2016-10-08T09:12:36Z myrkraverk: Now I just need to install, and then try it, I guess.
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2016-10-08T09:13:26Z myrkraverk: Well, ok, the current build works.
2016-10-08T09:13:33Z myrkraverk: run-sbcl.sh to the rescue.
2016-10-08T09:15:13Z myrkraverk: Thanks for fixing the OS X build thing.
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2016-10-08T09:22:12Z myrkraverk: Ok, this is very, very /interesting/
2016-10-08T09:22:27Z myrkraverk: subsequent builds *don't* fail with the link error I pasted above, but throw me into ldb.
2016-10-08T09:22:37Z myrkraverk: Welcome to LDB, a low-level debugger for the Lisp runtime environment.
2016-10-08T09:22:48Z myrkraverk: With or without the min version thing.
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2016-10-08T09:24:30Z myrkraverk: And I can't seem to fix that.
2016-10-08T09:24:43Z myrkraverk: But at least I have a build installed, so right now I don't have to care.
2016-10-08T09:30:33Z myrkraverk: And blogged, in case I have to use the switch again.
2016-10-08T09:30:34Z myrkraverk: http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/2016/10/building-sbcl-on-os-x-yoshemite/
2016-10-08T09:30:48Z myrkraverk: Oh, there's typo in the url.  Let me fix that.
2016-10-08T09:31:28Z myrkraverk: http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/2016/10/building-sbcl-on-os-x-yosemite/
2016-10-08T09:31:30Z myrkraverk: There we go.
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2016-10-08T10:57:59Z scymtym: i have code to emit the C structs page and generation in genesis based on the respective alien types. iiuc, this requires defining the alien types in the make-host phase. atm, this fails during macroexpansion of DEFINE-ALIEN-TYPE because #<NULL-LEXENV> is not of type (OR SB!C::ABSTRACT-LEXENV NULL). is this just something going wrong or a fundamental limitation?
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2016-10-08T13:19:33Z scymtym worked around ^ but gave up upon realizing how hard to untangle the interdependencies between runtime headers, groveling and genesis would be
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2016-10-08T13:23:42Z stassats: around xor?
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2016-10-08T13:33:27Z scymtym: around the problem i described above, sorry
2016-10-08T13:34:10Z myrkraverk: scymtym: according to my logs, stassats wasn't around when you wrote that.
2016-10-08T13:34:19Z myrkraverk: so yeah; confusion ensues.
2016-10-08T13:34:37Z stassats: i might have been joking
2016-10-08T13:34:50Z myrkraverk: C:
2016-10-08T13:38:00Z scymtym: the problem is: defining page and generation as alien types requires page-index-t and friends which are grovelled when the runtime is built which happens after genesis which is where the page and generation alien types would be needed to write the C structs into header files
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2016-10-08T20:09:10Z Shinmera: Just to gather some input to give me more to work with: what would you say is a distinguishing feature of SBCL? Is there something in particular you associate with it beyond the obvious traits of it being an open source CL implementation?
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2016-10-08T20:12:14Z |3b|: it puts more work into compilation than most implementations (type inference, etc)
2016-10-08T20:12:18Z myrkraverk: I like the operating system facilities, such as sb-posix, sb-alien, and the networking (sockets -- though I've only used those from usocket so far, but the documentation/implementation seems solid)
2016-10-08T20:12:21Z |3b|: or type propagation or whatever it does
2016-10-08T20:12:46Z myrkraverk: I also like that (afaict) it compiles everything by default.
2016-10-08T20:13:02Z |3b|: not quite everything, but most things
2016-10-08T20:13:51Z |3b| doesn't remember the details, but i think trivial forms at repl for example aren't usually compiled
2016-10-08T20:15:36Z stassats: they are funcalled
2016-10-08T20:16:37Z |3b| uses sbcl for the (potential) performance of the code it generates, and the good support for achieving that potential (performance notes, choice of profilers, etc)
2016-10-08T20:17:09Z nyef: To me, SBCL's defining traits are the compiler (for better or for worse), its adherence to the relevant specifications (what other lisp has ARRAY NIL?), and the work done to allow the compiler to do things that are fast without requiring non-standard structures (modular arithmetic, for example, or the one SATISFIES case for array types).
2016-10-08T20:17:14Z stassats: Shinmera: working on Alpha, of course!
2016-10-08T20:17:34Z nyef: stassats: Wait, Alpha? What? You were the one who broke that, weren't you?!?
2016-10-08T20:17:44Z nyef: Still haven't figured out how to fix it.
2016-10-08T20:17:52Z stassats: did you bisect?
2016-10-08T20:17:52Z |3b|: yeah, i suppose "performance at (safety >=1 )" is what i really meant there
2016-10-08T20:18:05Z nyef: stassats: Runtime DX SAP stuff.
2016-10-08T20:18:16Z stassats: oh, that
2016-10-08T20:18:23Z stassats: well, who cares about alpha anyway
2016-10-08T20:18:25Z |3b|: which is a side effect of trying to be fast within the standard
2016-10-08T20:18:30Z nyef: Heh.
2016-10-08T20:19:55Z Shinmera: Right, so what I've heard corresponds pretty well with what I've had in mind as well. Problem is that that's very hard to "put to paper" in the form of an image, let alone a simplified one.
2016-10-08T20:20:10Z Shinmera: I guess I'll see if I can come up with a few abstract logo designs and see how people feel about them.
2016-10-08T20:20:11Z |3b|: bootstrapping from any (sufficiently conforming but not too strange) CL compiler and a C compiler is pretty unusual too for mostly-written-in-cl implementations
2016-10-08T20:20:26Z nyef: Ah, right, the bootstrap is also fairly definitive.
2016-10-08T20:20:57Z |3b|: there are enough non-cl-hosted implementations to water that down a bit though
2016-10-08T20:21:00Z nyef: Although it's not been unknown for someone to write a CL implementation that bootstraps from SBCL. (-:
2016-10-08T20:21:03Z |3b|: abcl, ecl, clisp
2016-10-08T20:21:40Z stassats: logos?
2016-10-08T20:21:41Z stassats: huh
2016-10-08T20:22:47Z Shinmera: Turns out, it's hard to find a good image for a compiler.
2016-10-08T20:23:22Z nyef: For SBCL, it's easy: A snake.
2016-10-08T20:23:24Z myrkraverk: good image?
2016-10-08T20:23:43Z nyef: A snake with some large bulge in the middle to represent the program that it's digesting.
2016-10-08T20:23:46Z myrkraverk: oh, for logos.
2016-10-08T20:23:57Z nyef: But SBCL isn't just a compiler.
2016-10-08T20:24:06Z stassats: nyef: it's digesting another snake of the same name
2016-10-08T20:24:35Z nyef: stassats: Only when building SBCL itself. At which point, oroborous much?
2016-10-08T20:24:51Z stassats: i was thinking about the other Python
2016-10-08T20:25:04Z nyef: Ah, an "sb-pypy" extension?
2016-10-08T20:25:14Z stassats: you know, that toy language
2016-10-08T20:27:12Z nyef: What's wrong with our existing logo, anyway?
2016-10-08T20:27:21Z nyef: Is it that Microsoft decided to adopt it for Windows?
2016-10-08T20:27:22Z stassats: it's not symmetric
2016-10-08T20:27:38Z stassats: the middle white line is not centre
2016-10-08T20:27:49Z nyef: ... So?
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2016-10-08T20:30:51Z stassats: dunno, but that's what's wrong with it
2016-10-08T20:31:45Z Shinmera: Well, there's no SVG version of it, which is an easily remedied problem. However, I'd like to try my hands at making a new one because that is something I /can/ do. Doesn't mean you have to adobt it if you don't like it.
2016-10-08T20:32:05Z Shinmera: So.. why not?
2016-10-08T20:32:36Z stassats: one request, it has to be generated from a cl program
2016-10-08T20:32:57Z Shinmera: I'm afraid I won't be able to comply with that.
2016-10-08T20:33:01Z stassats: the program can look like the logo for bonus points
2016-10-08T20:33:25Z stassats: well, the current logo is easily generated
2016-10-08T20:34:07Z nyef: Shinmera: You... can't generate... Oh. If it were a bitmapped image, you could do it from CL, but you haven't done an SVG editor yet?
2016-10-08T20:34:53Z Shinmera: nyef: No. I mean that automatically generated computer things tend to look pbad. In order to design it I need a capable editor.
2016-10-08T20:35:26Z stassats: time to shave some yaks then!
2016-10-08T20:35:41Z stassats: a shaved yak can be the logo
2016-10-08T20:36:05Z Shinmera: I do have a painting application in the works, but vector tools are a long way down the road.
2016-10-08T20:36:15Z Shinmera: I'd like to get this done sometime soonish.
2016-10-08T20:36:36Z stassats: your vector tools don't depend on having qt5 do they?
2016-10-08T20:36:54Z Shinmera: No.
2016-10-08T20:37:06Z stassats: ok, i'm in the clear then
2016-10-08T20:37:07Z Shinmera: But Qt5 would help with my other projects :^)
2016-10-08T20:37:18Z stassats: with mine too, but
2016-10-08T20:37:50Z Shinmera: But?
2016-10-08T20:38:55Z DeadTrickster: how come sbcl calls SYS_futex with 4 args while it defined with SYSCALL_DEFINE6?
2016-10-08T20:40:06Z DeadTrickster: https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/622c9daf9bb41ef9ad4b8a063c62c4baf59a1c1a/src/runtime/linux-os.c#L109
2016-10-08T20:40:08Z DeadTrickster: here
2016-10-08T20:40:08Z nyef: DeadTrickster: The latter arguments are apparently optional. I wouldn't be surprised if they were added after SBCL started using futexes.
2016-10-08T20:40:24Z DeadTrickster: I looked back to 3.x still were 6 args
2016-10-08T20:40:47Z nyef: Also, only required for certain futex operations.
2016-10-08T20:41:19Z nyef: Umm... SBCL cut its threading teeth in the Linux 2.4 - 2.6 era.
2016-10-08T20:41:32Z DeadTrickster: ok so args are passed via registers, right? and it doesn't matter if they have garbage because FUTEX_WAIT doesn't use those two, right?
2016-10-08T20:42:19Z nyef: Something like that.
2016-10-08T20:42:52Z DeadTrickster: huh, you saved my brain )
2016-10-08T20:42:54Z nyef: Even if the args were passed on the stack it wouldn't matter: It'd use the C calling convention, which requires that the caller deallocate the frame.
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2016-10-08T20:43:35Z DeadTrickster: it was like I'm moving back and forth from SBCL source to futex.c
2016-10-08T20:44:52Z stassats: there's no glibc wrapper?
2016-10-08T20:44:57Z DeadTrickster: in 2.6.34 it's futex/6 too
2016-10-08T20:45:01Z DeadTrickster: stassats, nope
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2016-10-08T21:02:06Z DeadTrickster: is there any built-in shortcus
2016-10-08T21:02:14Z DeadTrickster: shortcut to block all signals?
2016-10-08T21:02:18Z DeadTrickster: for a thread
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2016-10-08T21:17:34Z DeadTrickster: heh, without-interrupts
2016-10-08T21:18:55Z nyef: Mind your semantics. If you're looking to use without-interrupts, you're already doing something dangerously tricky.
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2016-10-08T21:26:58Z DeadTrickster: FUTEX_WAIT can return EINTR, I want to block all signals to see if condition-wait still suffers from spurious wake ups
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2016-10-08T21:29:20Z stassats: without-interrupts doesn't actually block signals
2016-10-08T21:29:27Z DeadTrickster: futex-wait wrapped with allow-with-interrupts, I commented it and still tons of wake ups. Looks like I don't understand how signals work or how wuthout interrupts work
2016-10-08T21:29:37Z DeadTrickster: yep, the latter.
2016-10-08T21:31:33Z DeadTrickster: I'll just write short C function and try to call it from Lisp. extern void is enough?
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2016-10-09T09:57:59Z DeadTrickster: who calls gc_stop_the_world?
2016-10-09T09:59:13Z jackdaniel , it spins too fast already
2016-10-09T10:02:53Z DeadTrickster: my grep is overheated already
2016-10-09T10:04:51Z DeadTrickster: oh it must be called from lisp then
2016-10-09T10:05:07Z DeadTrickster: yep
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2016-10-09T11:27:57Z DeadTrickster: traced down to interrupt_handle_pending (it calls maybe_gc) but when interrupt_handle_pending is called?
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2016-10-09T14:45:54Z stassats: DeadTrickster: traced what down?
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2016-10-09T15:00:31Z DeadTrickster: stassats, I'm trying to understand how GC invoked, what I've found so far 1) manually in lisp land 2) on allocation 3) in interrupt_handle_pending there is maybe_gc call
2016-10-09T15:00:49Z DeadTrickster: I have no idea when interrupt_handle_pending is called
2016-10-09T15:02:05Z nyef: DeadTrickster: It's called via a pending-interrupt-trap. See handle_trap() at the bottom of interrupt.c, and receive-pending-interrupt in compiler/target/system.lisp.
2016-10-09T15:02:10Z DeadTrickster: it called by sigsegv_handler if LISP_FEATURE_ALPHA
2016-10-09T15:02:44Z nyef: That's for the pseudo-atomic exit sequence on alpha.
2016-10-09T15:04:02Z DeadTrickster: ok sigtrap handle calls handle_trap
2016-10-09T15:04:09Z DeadTrickster: I tried to send sigtrap manually already
2016-10-09T15:04:24Z DeadTrickster: it throwed something about unknown/unexpected breakpoint
2016-10-09T15:04:41Z stassats: that's not a good idea
2016-10-09T15:04:41Z nyef: The sigtrap handler inspects the instruction stream where the trap occurs to figure out what to do.
2016-10-09T15:04:49Z stassats: what are you trying to do?
2016-10-09T15:06:05Z DeadTrickster: about a year a go I reported strange semaphore behaviour. it was fixed by scymtym shortly. Now I'm trying to blog about it. Basically on tight async ioloop condition-wait flooded with spurious wakeups from gC
2016-10-09T15:07:38Z DeadTrickster: what's interesting - thread sleeping in condition-wait doesn't allocate right? why to send STOP_FOR_GC?
2016-10-09T15:08:14Z stassats: it allocated before
2016-10-09T15:08:17Z DeadTrickster: well, maybe to collect old generations, anyway
2016-10-09T15:08:54Z stassats: its stack has to be gced, and its alloc region
2016-10-09T15:08:56Z DeadTrickster: yeah, two questions 1) how handle_trap works and why it doesn't respond from external sigtrtap 2) why STOP_FOR_GC flood
2016-10-09T15:09:20Z stassats: don't send it sigtrap
2016-10-09T15:09:44Z stassats: where is STOP_FOR_GC being flooded?
2016-10-09T15:09:50Z DeadTrickster: ok who sends sigtrap then?
2016-10-09T15:09:59Z DeadTrickster: I mean there is timer or what?
2016-10-09T15:10:03Z nyef: Do you know what SIGTRAP _is_?
2016-10-09T15:10:32Z DeadTrickster: something processor sends to debugger
2016-10-09T15:10:44Z nyef: Yeah... not quite.
2016-10-09T15:10:47Z stassats: i don't think it really matters how we handle sigtrap here
2016-10-09T15:11:17Z nyef: There are two kinds of signals in unix (and this is probably similifying immensely): Synchronous signals and asynchronous signals.
2016-10-09T15:11:29Z stassats: is your code consing a lot and causing gc?
2016-10-09T15:11:31Z nyef: A synchronous signal is one that is caused by the program (and thread) being interrupted.
2016-10-09T15:11:35Z stassats: which would be expected
2016-10-09T15:11:51Z nyef: Things like SIGSEGV, SIGBUS, SIGTRAP, SIGFPE, and the like.
2016-10-09T15:12:34Z DeadTrickster: stassats, original paste: http://pastebin.com/UPYubKZK so maybe lots of consing on FFI side in the loop
2016-10-09T15:12:51Z nyef: The CPU notices that something is wrong, and generates a fault or trap interrupt. The kernel forms it as a signal and delivers it.
2016-10-09T15:13:49Z stassats: DeadTrickster: you are not running it from slime, are you?
2016-10-09T15:13:57Z nyef: The debugger doesn't enter into it in our case, but it it did, it gets to take a look at the signal before delivery and can alter it, refuse delivery, or whatever it wants.
2016-10-09T15:14:23Z DeadTrickster: stassats, both slime and terminal
2016-10-09T15:15:00Z stassats: so, you haven't confirmed that nothing conses and you are already in the guts of handle_trap?
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2016-10-09T15:15:41Z nyef: Other signals are asynchronous, such as SIGTERM, SIGKILL, SIGCONT, SIGCHLD, SIGDIE, and SIGWTF. These can be delivered basically at any time. And _any_ signal can be sent asynchronously via the kill() syscall.
2016-10-09T15:16:25Z myrkraverk: There really is a sigwtf?
2016-10-09T15:16:36Z nyef: No, nor is there a sigdie.
2016-10-09T15:16:42Z myrkraverk: ok
2016-10-09T15:16:42Z DeadTrickster: stassats, right, I thought GC is per thread
2016-10-09T15:17:30Z myrkraverk: dougk_: any news about the code-never-moves patch?
2016-10-09T15:17:58Z nyef: There's some way to distinguish between a SIGTRAP generated by the kernel vs. a SIGTRAP sent via kill(), but I forget precisely what that way is, and we don't bother doing it because nobody would send SIGTRAP via kill(), there's no point to doing so.
2016-10-09T15:18:01Z dougk__: working on it. i should mention that this only for x86-64 at present
2016-10-09T15:18:03Z stassats: DeadTrickster: well, you thought wrong...
2016-10-09T15:18:38Z myrkraverk: dougk__: that's fine -- my os x is amd64 compatible.
2016-10-09T15:18:57Z DeadTrickster: nyef, thanks for the explanation, why this works? I mean what condition should be met so SIGTRAP generated for GCeing?
2016-10-09T15:19:25Z DeadTrickster: it's not like SBCL inserts breakpoints, right
2016-10-09T15:19:26Z stassats: alloc() setting PAI when it can't find new space
2016-10-09T15:19:30Z nyef: dougk__: Are you generating different alloc regions in genesis for this, and possibly the page table as well, so we can lose pickup-dynamic?
2016-10-09T15:20:19Z nyef: DeadTrickster: It is _exactly_ like SBCL inserts breakpoints. Have a look at emit-error-break in compiler/target/macros.lisp.
2016-10-09T15:21:04Z DeadTrickster: nyef, I mean "it's not like SBCL inserts breakpoint to trigger GC", sorry for confusion
2016-10-09T15:21:16Z dougk__: nyef: i could give you a full explanation but the margin of this page is too small to contain it. (my kids are hounding me now for taking them somewhere)
2016-10-09T15:21:28Z dougk__: in a nutshell, it's two new gspaces
2016-10-09T15:21:47Z nyef: For probably-permanent code and probably-temporary code?
2016-10-09T15:22:06Z dougk__: no, i'll tell you later. i really gotta go
2016-10-09T15:22:12Z stassats: is probably-permanent the code that survives slad?
2016-10-09T15:22:13Z nyef: Okay, have fun.
2016-10-09T15:23:23Z dougk__: but i can't resist this: I think we see a +8% speedup and 4% RSS size reduction in our major use of this
2016-10-09T15:23:33Z dougk__: and I expect similar results for everyone
2016-10-09T15:23:47Z stassats: GC speedup?
2016-10-09T15:24:41Z DeadTrickster: looks like trap_PendingInterrupt is what I'm looking for?
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2016-10-09T15:25:24Z nyef: DeadTrickster: Pointed you to that twenty minutes ago. d-:
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2016-10-09T15:28:36Z DeadTrickster: I was very surprised when learned that SBCL actually implements mutexes / conditional vars directly on top of futexes. I wonder why, I heard pthreads use futexes on Linux anyway
2016-10-09T15:30:35Z DeadTrickster: nyef, I found it yesterday already, why I didn't grep it... now when I found do_pending_interrupt pazzle almost complete (hopefully)
2016-10-09T15:31:20Z stassats: sigtrap doesn't interrupt your sleeping thread
2016-10-09T15:31:47Z stassats: it's an unimportant to the question detail to initiate gcing and some other stuff
2016-10-09T15:45:41Z DeadTrickster: stassats, gc_stop_the_world sends SIG_STOP_FOR_GC to every RUNNING thread, right? Is thread in TASK_INTERRUPTIBLE state considered as RUNNING by SBCL?
2016-10-09T15:46:30Z stassats: non running threads are threads that are already stopped by gc_stop_the_world or that just died
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2016-10-09T15:56:04Z DeadTrickster: so when thread calls futex_wait via condition-wait it will be in running state for SBCL and gc_stop_the_world will send SIG_STOP_FOR_GC and wake up the thread
2016-10-09T15:56:40Z DeadTrickster: and my io loop generates lots of garbage which triggers gc_stop_the_world
2016-10-09T15:56:42Z DeadTrickster: hmm
2016-10-09T16:01:38Z DeadTrickster: sounds like potential performance bottleneck
2016-10-09T16:24:04Z scymtym: (compile nil '(lambda (f) (locally (declare (notinline maphash)) (maphash (lambda (x y) (funcall f x y)) (make-hash-table :test #'eq))))) |- The function (SB-C::XEP (LAMBDA (X Y))) is called by MAPHASH with two arguments, but wants exactly three.
2016-10-09T16:26:36Z scymtym goes afk
2016-10-09T16:31:59Z Cthulhux: yay.
2016-10-09T16:32:05Z nyef: ... Wow.
2016-10-09T16:32:21Z nyef: Please tell me that that's not a recent regression?
2016-10-09T16:32:28Z stassats: so is it the arg-count creeping in?
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2016-10-09T16:32:46Z stassats: in a xep, though
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2016-10-09T16:47:25Z stassats: and notinline is causing it, even when there's nothing to be inlined
2016-10-09T16:49:55Z stassats: ok, if it's external i can strip away the arg-count parameter
2016-10-09T16:56:43Z stassats: testing the fix
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2016-10-10T00:34:21Z nyef: Well, /that/ was quick. I tried a build with SBCL_MAKE_PARALLEL=2, and it died basically immediately, something about EXIT not being found in SB-EXT.
2016-10-10T00:34:39Z nyef: Is this something that is not expected to work?
2016-10-10T00:41:22Z stassats: i only use SBCL_MAKE_JOBS=
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2016-10-10T01:18:34Z nyef: ... Same failure mode. /-:
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2016-10-10T01:42:56Z nyef sighs.
2016-10-10T01:43:09Z nyef: OS-EXIT not found in SB-SYS. Clearly, this is not intended to work.
2016-10-10T01:45:36Z dougk__: doesn't that boil down to the question of which one of those things we wanted to keep/remove?
2016-10-10T01:46:10Z dougk__: parallel build should work with new enough sbcl as the host
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2016-10-10T02:04:26Z nyef: That'd be why it's not working for me: My designated build host is 1.0.23.
2016-10-10T02:06:26Z nyef tries with a more up-to-date build host.
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2016-10-10T02:12:12Z nyef: Double-definition of tramps confirmed.
2016-10-10T02:12:29Z nyef: Running the test suite now, to see what happens there and establish a baseline.
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2016-10-10T02:35:18Z nyef: The "obvious" one-line fix for the double-defined tramps seems to work. Waiting on the test suite now.
2016-10-10T02:43:09Z nyef: And looks good.
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2016-10-10T10:36:41Z scymtym: new regression in x86 and x86_64 non-sb-unicode builds: https://ci.cor-lab.org/job/sbcl-master/featureset=3,label=ubuntu_trusty_32bit/lastCompletedBuild/consoleFull (search for "reader.pure"). supposedly introduced in "Add helper for calling static funs" commit
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2016-10-10T13:15:41Z nyef: Inspection says that non-unicode build regression is from commmit 14f8f6ce7e729615577d4697c7924c071b3ea5c7
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2016-10-10T13:16:50Z nyef: Is very likely purely a test-suite problem.
2016-10-10T13:17:15Z stassats: (set-macro-character #\u100fa #'error nil rt)
2016-10-10T13:17:18Z stassats: i'd say
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2016-10-10T13:37:51Z scymtym: right, we had too many builds since the regression so the older ones are no longer available (i always forget to look out for that)
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2016-10-10T13:41:17Z nyef: Make that a CODE-CHAR and mark the test as :skipped-on not unicode?
2016-10-10T13:48:50Z nyef: Oh, lovely. I can't build anymore even with a non-parallel build.
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2016-10-10T13:51:03Z nyef sighs.
2016-10-10T13:51:41Z nyef: More hacks in my local tree to try and build from an older SBCL.
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2016-10-10T14:07:56Z nyef: I think I have the unicode test thing sorted, and my build issue mostly-sorted. Just running tests and rebuilds and retests now.
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2016-10-10T14:37:18Z nyef: Non-unicode regression should now be fixed.
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2016-10-10T14:42:07Z nyef: Hrm. Still can't do a parallel build with my usual environment. And making it happen is going to take a bit more digging than I'm up for right now. I'll commit what I have so far in a little bit.
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2016-10-10T15:12:04Z attila_lendvai: will --load compile the file? if not, would it run faster if it was compiled and loaded from a fasl?
2016-10-10T15:17:04Z nyef: dougk__: Fixed that mis-merge that was causing duplicate tramps on the parallel build.
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2016-10-10T20:47:19Z Shinmera: I got a logo mockup that I don't hate (finally): https://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TVRFM01RPT0=
2016-10-10T20:47:29Z Shinmera: It's an SVG so scale up to your heart's content
2016-10-10T20:48:10Z stassats: so, that's for the compiler, what will the one for the runtime look like?
2016-10-10T20:48:30Z Shinmera: It can be the same for both.
2016-10-10T20:49:09Z stassats: you know there's a bit of a collision with that other programming language
2016-10-10T20:49:18Z Shinmera: I'm aware indeed.
2016-10-10T20:49:28Z Shinmera: But I would say that the logos are distinctive enough.
2016-10-10T20:49:32Z nyef: Can we /please/ not have a logo for anything in src/runtime/?
2016-10-10T20:49:57Z Shinmera: nyef: Do you mean conceptually or as in the file?
2016-10-10T20:50:08Z stassats: nyef: a big ball of mud?
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2016-10-10T20:50:46Z nyef: Somewhere in my list of project ideas is still "no-C-runtime SBCL".
2016-10-10T20:51:14Z stassats: "SBCL without any code from SBCL" on mine
2016-10-10T20:51:21Z Shinmera: Either way, I'm only looking for logo ideas for "SBCL the project/product as a whole"
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2016-10-10T20:53:31Z stassats: a rebar and a dollar sign
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2016-10-10T21:00:40Z nyef: Probably better off with an I-beam than rebar, but yeah, something like that is carefully blunt and to-the-point.
2016-10-10T21:01:23Z nyef: Either that, or poring molten steel into a dollar-sign-shaped mold.
2016-10-10T21:02:14Z Shinmera: I've thought about those, but couldn't figure out anything that would look pleasing.
2016-10-10T21:02:53Z Shinmera: I've also tried to do something with the four coloured blocks of the current 'get header' but can't conjure up anything that I like.
2016-10-10T21:04:09Z Shinmera: Then I also did some really generic designs but those just don't have any relation to SBCL really, so I don't know.
2016-10-10T21:05:07Z Shinmera: Here's some others that I haven't thrown in the trash bin yet: https://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TVRFM013PT0= https://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TVRFM01nPT0= https://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TVRFM05BPT0=
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2016-10-11T03:35:24Z nyef: Okay, finally sat down and tackled the parallel build thing. Pretty much the same deprecation/new-interface things as for the loader.lisp changes for the serial build, but for a different kill-the-process function and two copies this time.
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2016-10-12T14:27:20Z stassats: huh (lambda () (lambda (&rest x) (declare (fixnum x)))) => failed AVER: (NOT (SB-C::FUNCTIONAL-HAS-EXTERNAL-REFERENCES-P SB-C::CLAMBDA))
2016-10-12T14:35:12Z nyef: Okay, that's neat.
2016-10-12T14:35:18Z nyef: Is that one of mine?
2016-10-12T14:35:45Z stassats: would 1.1.7 be yours?
2016-10-12T14:36:08Z nyef: Mmm... Probably not.
2016-10-12T14:36:30Z stassats: trying to make multiple-value-call less dumb
2016-10-12T14:36:30Z nyef: That's... Oh. Neat.
2016-10-12T14:36:38Z stassats: and work not on a single form
2016-10-12T14:36:47Z stassats: and stumbled on the above accidentally
2016-10-12T14:36:50Z nyef: So, the inner lambda has a guaranteed type-error in the arg-parsing.
2016-10-12T14:37:05Z nyef: Making the XEP live but the inner function not-live.
2016-10-12T14:37:24Z stassats: i imagined something like that
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2016-10-12T14:38:43Z stassats: interestingly, when i declare (declare (cons rest)) for my actual test case, the mv-combination-fun is an LVAR with all NIL slots...
2016-10-12T14:39:22Z nyef: So, deleted LVAR.
2016-10-12T14:39:39Z nyef: Seen that within the past... two months, I think?
2016-10-12T14:40:23Z stassats: well, i change a lot of stuff for around mv-combinations, and that code that fails isn't even right, but i didn't expect it to fail that way
2016-10-12T14:41:28Z stassats: i guess CONS conflicts too, since it knows it's a NIL
2016-10-12T14:44:29Z stassats: happens even if it doesn't conflict outright
2016-10-12T14:44:50Z nyef: So, flow analysis says "we know that there's no arguments here"?
2016-10-12T14:45:17Z nyef: Or does it say "we expect that it is possible for there not to be arguments here"?
2016-10-12T14:45:52Z nyef: Hrm. The latter shouldn't cause a problem...
2016-10-12T14:46:02Z stassats: right
2016-10-12T14:47:20Z stassats: i think it's about REST being used
2016-10-12T14:47:36Z stassats: since mv-let expects something like (&optional a b c &rest ignored)
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2016-10-12T14:51:09Z stassats: ok i think i see
2016-10-12T14:54:19Z stassats: incidentally, (multiple-value-call (lambda (&optional (a) (b) (c) &rest x) (declare (cons x)) (list a b c)) (values 1 2 3 3)) crashes even now
2016-10-12T14:54:37Z stassats: Value of NIL in #'(LAMBDA (&OPTIONAL (A) (B) (C) &REST X) (DECLARE (CONS X)) (LIST A B C)) is NIL, not a CONS.
2016-10-12T14:54:43Z stassats: even though it's actually (3)
2016-10-12T14:55:48Z stassats: but i guess it's all the same problem, the mv-let stuff only works on the fixed arguments, not on &rest
2016-10-12T14:55:55Z stassats: so it gets ignored
2016-10-12T14:57:45Z stassats: i guess i can just disallow these optimization if X is used
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2016-10-12T19:25:58Z stassats: looks like i resolved all the problems with multiple-value-call that i introduced, but not the existing one
2016-10-12T19:26:05Z stassats: with type mismatch for &rest
2016-10-12T19:29:39Z nyef: Add a test case for it, open a bug on launchpad, and give it a rest?
2016-10-12T19:29:49Z stassats: that's the plan
2016-10-12T19:30:24Z stassats: and i'm planning on expanding m-v-call optimizations
2016-10-12T19:31:04Z stassats: for now i'm simply able to do (m-v-call #'x 1 2 3) not just (m-v-call #'x (values 1 2 3))
2016-10-12T19:31:42Z stassats: there are cases worth handling, like (mv-call (lambda (x y)) 1 2)
2016-10-12T19:32:02Z stassats: not just the specially crafted (lambda (&optional x y &rest ignore))
2016-10-12T19:32:12Z stassats: for let conversion
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2016-10-12T19:46:16Z stassats: i basically had to touch every stage
2016-10-12T19:47:00Z stassats: checkgen.lisp ir1opt.lisp ir1util.lisp ir2tran.lisp locall.lisp ltn.lisp
2016-10-12T19:47:18Z stassats: nice exercise
2016-10-12T19:51:41Z stassats: get to close one medium ticket
2016-10-12T19:51:44Z stassats: and maybe another
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2016-10-12T19:57:29Z stassats: i'm not at all confident that i didn't break anything, but it seems alright, so i guess it's a good idea to put it to more wider testing
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2016-10-13T13:10:31Z dougk__: it looks like canonicalize-whitespace fails if the host lisp doesn't support Unicode. this would be nice to fix
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2016-10-13T13:48:40Z stassats: is that new? i always build with sb-unicode-less sbcl
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2016-10-13T13:58:31Z scymtym: i rewrote the thing in lisp some time ago
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2016-10-13T22:26:49Z stassats: what's the deal with SB-EXT:*INTEXP-MAXIMUM-EXPONENT*?
2016-10-13T22:26:58Z stassats: normally i'd just axe it, but it's sb-ext
2016-10-13T22:28:22Z stassats: hell, cl-bench sets it, because in the past it had too small a value
2016-10-13T22:30:30Z stassats: man, who ever thought it was a good idea to even have *intexp-maximum-exponent*, let alone export it from a public package?
2016-10-13T22:31:33Z stassats: i'm inclined to remove it anyway, it's not documented, for one thing
2016-10-13T22:32:53Z Bike: k
2016-10-13T22:32:58Z Bike: wrong channel, sorry
2016-10-13T22:33:29Z stassats: Bike: i'll take that anyway
2016-10-13T22:34:14Z Bike: huh, i thought that that variable controlled a fallback to a different method, but it just errors
2016-10-13T22:34:18Z Bike: that is pretty dumb
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2016-10-13T23:12:16Z nyef`: Hrm. That maximum-exponent thing is from CMUCL.
2016-10-13T23:12:23Z stassats: yes
2016-10-13T23:12:28Z nyef`: Or, at least, it's in the "initial revision" in git.
2016-10-13T23:12:51Z stassats: i pushed its removal
2016-10-13T23:13:25Z stassats: if somebody will stumble on that we can resolved it in two ways: have a dummy symbol or have a dummy variable that's never checked
2016-10-13T23:13:40Z stassats: i doubt anybody actually wants the behavior of *intexp-maximum-exponent*
2016-10-13T23:14:25Z stassats: the only reason it could ever be used was to solve its misbehavior when it was non-nil
2016-10-13T23:15:41Z nyef`: It's... in the first version of irrat.lisp in the CMUCL git.
2016-10-13T23:17:14Z nyef`: Also with no explanation, of course.
2016-10-13T23:18:15Z stassats: well, there was an explanation in sbcl
2016-10-13T23:18:34Z stassats:               ;; hacks to work around system limitations
2016-10-13T23:18:35Z stassats:                "*INTEXP-MAXIMUM-EXPONENT*" ; since we crash hard when
2016-10-13T23:18:35Z stassats:                                         ; memory is exhausted
2016-10-13T23:18:51Z nyef`: (The ancient CMUCLian people didn't believe in explaining anything they did. Any explanatory text in the CMUCL source tree has been backported from SBCL.)
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2016-10-13T23:27:10Z stassats: nyef`: the dark ages
2016-10-13T23:29:28Z nyef`: There was one point when I was looking through the CMUCL GC sources for some reason, probably trying to figure out more-or-less what was what back in the day, and most of the comments were useless.
2016-10-13T23:29:57Z nyef`: And then I ran into a patch where the comments made reasonable sense and explained what was going on.
2016-10-13T23:30:46Z nyef`: And then I found the signature at the end of the comments and realized that I had written the comments, for SBCL, and that rtoy had backported what I'd done. (-:
2016-10-13T23:32:22Z nyef`: Very different mindset, though. CMUCL really likes to maintain FASL compatibility between minor versions.
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2016-10-13T23:33:26Z nyef`: And the comments basically presume that everyone already knows the basics of what's going on and why, and refers to specific people as being the people to ask about various things.
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2016-10-14T02:02:28Z brad__: Hey everyone!  I'm running into a bug where MAKE-INSTANCE spins forever.  I profiled it for 10 seconds and about half the time is spent in SB-PCL::INSTALL-INITIAL-CONSTRUCTOR and the other half is in a lambda (looks like it is created by the compiler macro for MAKE-INSTANCE).
2016-10-14T02:02:48Z brad__: I feel like I've either corrupted my image or SBCL has a bug
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2016-10-14T02:04:29Z brad__: any wisdom or pointers would be most welcome
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2016-10-14T02:07:59Z |3b|: if you interrupt it does the backtrace look sane?
2016-10-14T02:15:49Z brad__: I think it looks sane.  Everything leading up to the call to MAKE-INSTANCE looks right
2016-10-14T02:16:07Z brad__: MAKE-INSTANCE isn't in the backtrace due to the compiler macro
2016-10-14T02:17:46Z |3b|: how old is your sbcl?
2016-10-14T02:18:05Z brad__: SBCL 1.3.10.nixos
2016-10-14T02:21:57Z |3b|: is it repeatable, and is the code shareable (or can you reduce it to something that is)?
2016-10-14T02:26:32Z brad__: It is 100% reproducible on my box.  I was planning on open sourcing this project some time soon anyway.  I haven't got a minimal reproducer yet.  The project is about 4.5k lines right now.  If that's too much, I can spend some time minimizing it.
2016-10-14T02:27:58Z |3b|: probably not too much, though if you can reduce it that usually helps
2016-10-14T02:29:09Z |3b|: (or at least not too much to take an initial look at)
2016-10-14T02:29:43Z brad__: Give me a few min and I'll post it somewhere
2016-10-14T02:57:31Z brad__: github.com/bradleyjensen/shcl
2016-10-14T02:59:10Z brad__: Let me write up reproduction steps
2016-10-14T03:02:25Z brad__: github.com/bradleyjensen/shcl/issues/1
2016-10-14T03:11:58Z |3b|: hmm, looks like it doesn't build here (probably because i'm using windows), can you paste the backtrace too?
2016-10-14T03:17:13Z brad__: yeah, one sec
2016-10-14T03:22:14Z brad__: Attached to the github issue.  I don't expect shcl will work on windows any time soon
2016-10-14T03:43:25Z nyef`: brad__: ``Component "cffi-grovel" not found, required by NIL'' ?
2016-10-14T03:44:48Z nyef` sighs.
2016-10-14T03:45:09Z nyef`: And doing (ql:quickload :cffi) fixes that, but then it breaks on "trivial-garbage".
2016-10-14T03:45:28Z nyef`: ... And then "cl-fad".
2016-10-14T03:45:31Z brad__: yeah, you'll need to quickload a lot of things
2016-10-14T03:45:36Z brad__: check the .asd file for dependencies
2016-10-14T03:48:37Z nyef`: Okay, I can confirm that it locks up.
2016-10-14T03:49:16Z brad__: I've also attached the output of the statistical profiler captured during a lockup
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2016-10-14T03:54:18Z nyef`: Odd that it works if you just do an assignment without the echo.
2016-10-14T03:54:33Z brad__: yeah
2016-10-14T03:57:55Z brad__: I don't know if this helps at all, but in lexer.lisp, I have a macro (DEFINE-MAKE-LOAD-FORM-FOR-CLASS) that defines methods for MAKE-LOAD-FORM.  If you make that macro expand to nil and re-compile, then it won't reproduce in the shcl binary anymore.  However, it still does reproduce during unit testing.
2016-10-14T03:58:22Z nyef`: ... Er?
2016-10-14T03:58:51Z brad__: Yeah.  I haven't published that unit test, yet
2016-10-14T03:59:22Z nyef`: I'm definitely in over my head here, then.
2016-10-14T03:59:50Z |3b|: if you stub out evaluate so the echo does nothing, it doesn't lock?
2016-10-14T04:00:42Z |3b| wonders if it is the parsing or the actual command invocation that is the precondition (or both)
2016-10-14T04:00:43Z brad__: I haven't tried stubbing out all of evaluate, but I did cut out all of the parts that actually spawn the new process
2016-10-14T04:06:02Z brad__: You're on the right track.  It doesn't reproduce if I replace EVALUATE with a dummy function
2016-10-14T04:06:53Z brad__: I'll spend a bit more time on it
2016-10-14T04:07:05Z brad__: thanks for the extra pair of eyes!
2016-10-14T04:07:46Z |3b|: might also try with sbcl 1.3.6 or so
2016-10-14T04:08:43Z brad__: Actually, 1.3.6 was where I first ran into it
2016-10-14T04:08:56Z brad__: I updated to 1.3.10 to see if that made a difference
2016-10-14T04:09:30Z |3b|: ah, ok
2016-10-14T04:09:47Z nyef`: ... Bisect?
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2016-10-14T04:11:44Z brad__: When I bisected, I found the commit that added DEFINE-MAKE-LOAD-FORM-FOR-CLASS.  Those methods seem to agrevate it, but I can get it to reproduce even without them.  My method for reproducing it, unfortunately, relies on changes that came in after the MAKE-LOAD-FORM commit
2016-10-14T04:11:54Z nyef`: Or do we not know of a "good" SBCL version to try this with?
2016-10-14T04:12:04Z brad__: No known good SBCL version
2016-10-14T04:12:08Z nyef`: Hrm.
2016-10-14T04:12:10Z nyef`: Lovely.
2016-10-14T04:12:27Z brad__: I'm not entirely convinced SBCL is at fault.  I could very well be corrupting the image in some way
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2016-10-14T04:12:42Z brad__: I am mucking with CFFI and posix APIs
2016-10-14T04:13:09Z brad__: My usage of CFFI is pretty simple, but there is still plenty of room for error
2016-10-14T04:13:18Z brad__: I'll try and isolate the issue a bit more
2016-10-14T04:13:26Z brad__: thanks for all the help
2016-10-14T04:14:44Z brad__: I've gotta go to bed.  Have a good night!
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2016-10-14T05:12:56Z slyrus: oops. ld relocation R_X86_64_32S against undefined symbol `all_threads` can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
2016-10-14T05:39:04Z slyrus: oh, fun. nopie != no-pie
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2016-10-14T07:15:44Z |3b|: that make-instance thing makes my head hurt :p
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2016-10-14T07:18:43Z |3b|: i think the 'echo' command makes it warm caches or finalize something, then the FOO=123 calls a previously unused method on a different subclass of the superclass of the class that breaks, which resets a bunch of classes in the hierarchy
2016-10-14T07:20:53Z |3b|: then when it tries to make-instance the broken class, it does install-initial-constructor, which clears (ctor-class ctor) and sets the funcallable-instance-fun of ctor to a lambda that calls install-optimized-constructor
2016-10-14T07:21:45Z |3b|: that lambda is then called, and i-o-c sets (ctor-class ctor) and then compiles something, indirectly calling i-i-c, clearing (ctor-class ctor) again, and resetting the funcallable-instance-fun
2016-10-14T07:25:45Z |3b|: then it returns from the compilation, and i-o-c sets the funcallable-instance-fun to what it just compiled (generated indirectly by optimizing-generator) and returns, then the ctor is called again calling the code from o-g which sees an invalid layout so calls i-i-c, which sees no ctor-class so does nothing, then the o-g code calls the ctor again, thereby calling itself and getting stuck in a loop
2016-10-14T07:26:07Z |3b| has no idea what is supposed to be happening in any of that, or how to trigger it from simpler code :p
2016-10-14T07:28:26Z |3b|: passing :force-p t to i-i-c in the code generated by optimizing-generator seems to be a workaround, but i doubt that is the 'correct' fix
2016-10-14T07:34:16Z |3b|: nyef`: if you are still awake, can you verify that code locks on 1.3.7 or older?
2016-10-14T07:38:55Z |3b|: actually, i guess it probably does... might be easier to debug there since the logic is a bit more direct
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2016-10-14T10:14:59Z stassats: working on (expt complex integer), i wish i could include rendered TeX into comments
2016-10-14T10:16:01Z Shinmera: Unicode has some math stuff that can substitute for TeX sometimes, but it only gets you so far.
2016-10-14T10:41:04Z stassats: ok, (expt complex integer) is too complicated for me too handle more efficiently
2016-10-14T10:41:12Z stassats: but i feel like there's an angle
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2016-10-14T14:16:17Z slyrus: so ... the new ubuntu yakety yak wants the linux x86-64 config to check for no-pie, not just nopie in the linker config flags. I'll file a proper bug later today.
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2016-10-14T15:21:39Z Shinmera: Which is concerning but also ??? because it works on the mint machine and it worked on my arch machine before too
2016-10-14T15:23:01Z Shinmera: Whoops, wrong channel
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2016-10-14T20:59:38Z _death: so, I spent today going down the sbcl rabbit hole.. this is what I have so far: https://github.com/death/sbcl/commit/890523927c538ca2aeaa73c8cd96ee4f1ff3c1ae
2016-10-14T21:00:05Z _death: at least it seems to expose an sbcl bug, as well as a bogus test
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2016-10-15T11:18:28Z stassats: huh, declaring ABS returning a REAL breaks the build
2016-10-15T11:18:39Z stassats: in a strange way
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2016-10-15T11:21:18Z |3b|: stassats: did you see the strange lockup in pcl ctor stuff the other day?
2016-10-15T11:21:40Z stassats: |3b|: somewhat, is there a proper test case now?
2016-10-15T11:22:16Z |3b|: not that i know of
2016-10-15T11:23:21Z stassats: cast-check-types gets a cast with DERIVED-TYPE                 = #<NAMED-TYPE NIL>
2016-10-15T11:23:33Z stassats: and promptly fails
2016-10-15T11:29:26Z stassats: and of course that only happens during the build
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2016-10-15T11:50:44Z stassats: |3b|: i can't even reproduce the improper test case
2016-10-15T11:52:25Z |3b| wonders if it matters what is in the environment as well, or something like that
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2016-10-16T19:45:41Z stassats: wait what
2016-10-16T19:45:53Z stassats: i've been struggling to see what's going on with my change
2016-10-16T19:46:22Z stassats: oh, forgot that i committed it
2016-10-16T19:46:27Z stassats: silly
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2016-10-17T01:26:55Z dougk__: anyone on?
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2016-10-17T01:54:22Z slyrus: stassat's making the build process abortable broke my usual build invocation :(
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2016-10-17T03:14:35Z nyef``: slyrus: A couple of my commits this cycle are to FIX my usual build invocation.
2016-10-17T03:32:11Z nyef``: (Okay, upon review, ONE of my commits this cycle is to fix my usual build invocation, two are to fix various aspects of threaded builds, and one is to fix a test suite bug on non-unicode builds.)
2016-10-17T03:34:18Z nyef``: s/threaded/parallel/
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2016-10-17T16:42:03Z slyrus: stassats: around?
2016-10-17T16:42:22Z stassats: yes
2016-10-17T16:42:44Z slyrus: your commit about making the build process abortable broke my usual build invocation:
2016-10-17T16:42:52Z slyrus: ( sh make.sh >& build.log & )
2016-10-17T16:43:16Z slyrus: now it hangs before entering make-host-1.sh
2016-10-17T16:43:30Z slyrus: if I just do make.sh , everything is fine
2016-10-17T16:44:07Z stassats: that's due to set -m
2016-10-17T16:44:26Z stassats: without set -m you aren't to interrupt the build with C-c and continue
2016-10-17T16:44:49Z slyrus: ok, but why does it hang when done in a subshell?
2016-10-17T16:45:00Z slyrus: and how do we fix it so it doesn't hang? :)
2016-10-17T16:45:53Z stassats: set -m messes with job control
2016-10-17T16:50:05Z slyrus: ok, but how do we fix it?
2016-10-17T16:50:13Z stassats: that's the question
2016-10-17T16:50:25Z stassats: i don't want to decide what's more important & or C-c
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2016-10-17T17:24:51Z foom: I think you could just have the shell ignore SIGINT around the invocation of sbcl, instead of enabling job control.
2016-10-17T17:26:01Z stassats: but it also has sub-shells, would have to disable SIGINT everywhere
2016-10-17T17:26:13Z foom: are the subshells still running at the same time as the build?
2016-10-17T17:26:37Z stassats: it's a shame that set -m does many things, we only need the process group part
2016-10-17T17:27:41Z stassats: i actually don't use neither C-c nor &
2016-10-17T17:28:32Z stassats: but building sbcl in the background is a bit strange, if something goes wrong it's not that easy to debug
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2016-10-18T21:55:43Z dougk_: stassats: i'm trying to assign a bug to you but launchpad isn't letting me. Due to a recent commit about mv-call. I have a small repro.
2016-10-18T21:56:04Z dougk_: more precisely, launchpad isn't letting me create any new bug
2016-10-18T22:15:43Z stassats: dougk_: ok
2016-10-18T22:16:46Z dougk_: stassats: launchpad let me submit the report now, plus I put the test in compiler.impure.lisp already as I was getting impatient with launchpad
2016-10-18T22:18:50Z stassats: ok, (defun abc (&optional pos) (multiple-value-call #'abc pos))
2016-10-18T22:19:15Z stassats: that's... not new
2016-10-18T22:21:08Z stassats: but i'll look into it anyway
2016-10-18T22:25:28Z stassats: quite strange
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2016-10-18T23:44:55Z slyrus: stassats: can we assume we have bash available, or do we need to rely only on sh?
2016-10-18T23:45:28Z slyrus: using bash -T instead of sh in the make-foo scripts makes things subshell-able and interruptible, AFAICT
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2016-10-18T23:48:12Z stassats: slyrus: things should be bash free
2016-10-18T23:48:31Z nyef``: Not every system has bash.
2016-10-18T23:48:59Z slyrus: I figured. Well, at least we know it can be made to work!
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2016-10-19T03:15:50Z nyef``: Uh-oh.
2016-10-19T03:16:06Z nyef``: SBCL 1.0.23 doesn't bomb when faced with (defun abc (&optional pos) (multiple-value-call #'abc pos)) .
2016-10-19T03:28:27Z nyef``: Bisecting.
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2016-10-19T03:36:18Z nyef``: Looks like it's pre-ARM-port.
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2016-10-19T05:07:23Z nyef``: ... I'll finish bisecting in the morning, I think.
2016-10-19T05:07:33Z nyef``: Not many steps left, at least.
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2016-10-19T12:03:41Z knobo: Why does (time (loop with x = (list 1 2 3 4) repeat 1000 do (map-into x #'1+ x))) cons?
2016-10-19T12:04:28Z jackdaniel: I have a dejavu
2016-10-19T12:16:48Z knobo: jackdaniel: I thought maybe #sbcl would know why
2016-10-19T12:19:17Z nyef``: Aside from the invocation of LIST?
2016-10-19T12:19:25Z knobo: nyef``: yes.
2016-10-19T12:20:15Z nyef``: Don't know offhand, especially since the LIST invocation shouldn't be large enough that TIME picks up on it on most systems.
2016-10-19T12:20:32Z knobo: (let ((x (list 1 2 3 4))) (time (loop repeat 10000 do (map-into x #'1+ x))))
2016-10-19T12:20:58Z knobo: acctually repeat 1000 was not enough. repeat 10000 does cons.
2016-10-19T12:21:22Z nyef``: Okay, so it's not MUCH consing. Maybe something to do with how MAP-INTO is implemented?
2016-10-19T12:25:17Z nyef``: The reason you need so many loops is that TIME only notices consing on GENCGC (the "better" of our two GCs) if it causes an allocation region to close.
2016-10-19T12:25:57Z nyef``: (Speaking of which, we could probably do better by forcing the allocation region to be closed directly from TIME, before and after running the code under test.)
2016-10-19T12:26:49Z scymtym: nyef``:  (let ((x (list 1 2 3 4))) (time (loop :repeat 1000000 :do (map-into x #'identity x)))) conses 16 bytes per iteration as well. so something is not right
2016-10-19T12:27:04Z scymtym: i think the ETYPECASE in MAP-INTO might not be compiled properly
2016-10-19T12:27:48Z nyef``: I can't do too much on this right-right now, I'm closing in on the end of a bisection.
2016-10-19T12:28:05Z knobo: That is ok.
2016-10-19T12:28:52Z knobo: I'll come back nagging again later.
2016-10-19T12:35:16Z knobo: I guess it is %map-to-list
2016-10-19T12:36:04Z knobo: it does push
2016-10-19T12:36:23Z nyef``: That'd do it.
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2016-10-19T12:38:57Z nyef``: Okay, bisection done. And I have no idea what's going on with the indicated commit, so I'll leave it for now.
2016-10-19T12:40:42Z scymtym: ok, not ETYPECASE. the fact that the VECTOR case uses SEQUENCES seems to make (apply '%map ... sequences) listify the &REST argument SEQUENCES
2016-10-19T12:42:20Z scymtym: modifying MAP-INTO such that the VECTOR case does not touch SEQUENCES makes the LIST case non-consing
2016-10-19T12:42:30Z scymtym: the question is whether this is a regression
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2016-10-19T12:46:30Z nyef``: Yeah, have fun with that. I'm not doing another bisect today. d-:
2016-10-19T12:47:20Z scymtym: actually, VECTOR-MAP-INTO expanding into (funcall <compute-the-function> ... SEQUENCES) seems to force the listification
2016-10-19T12:50:29Z scymtym: declaring the SEQUENCES parameter TRULY-DYNAMIC-EXTENT gets rid of the consing
2016-10-19T12:51:48Z nyef``: There... might be some consequences to that in the presence of inlining, IIRC.
2016-10-19T12:51:59Z nyef``: DX semantics are vicious.
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2016-10-19T12:53:30Z scymtym: sure, i'm not going this change without further consideration
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2016-10-19T14:03:11Z pjstirling: hi, is there a right way to compare two alien pointers for equality?
2016-10-19T14:20:39Z nyef``: pjstirling: Looking at the manual, I'm thinking SAP= of ALIEN-SAP.
2016-10-19T14:21:56Z stassats: but sap= is in sb-sys which is marked as private
2016-10-19T14:22:15Z nyef``: Ah, drat.
2016-10-19T14:23:01Z stassats: well, there isn't anything else
2016-10-19T14:23:08Z stassats: that's just how consistent we are
2016-10-19T14:24:09Z stassats: (cast (make-alien char) long-long) doesn't work
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2016-10-19T14:50:29Z Shinmera: CFFI has pointer-eq, if that's any consolation.
2016-10-19T14:51:08Z stassats: cffi doesn't use aliens
2016-10-19T14:51:26Z Shinmera: Ah, ok
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2016-10-19T15:16:21Z pjstirling: right, I'm getting dumed into ldb with "fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 31284(tid 140737353938688):
2016-10-19T15:16:22Z pjstirling: %PRIMITIVE HALT called; the party is over."
2016-10-19T15:17:04Z pjstirling: from the back trace it looks like infinite recursion when it tries to signal an error
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2016-10-19T20:47:48Z scymtym: stassats: do you see a problem with declaring the SEQUENCES parameter of MAP-INTO [TRULY-]DYNAMIC-EXTENT? (for context see discussion 8 hours ago)
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2016-10-19T20:51:38Z stassats: no, aside from that it should have been automatic
2016-10-19T20:54:00Z stassats: vector-map-into is stopping that
2016-10-19T20:55:30Z scymtym: yeah, i don't see how that could be automatic
2016-10-19T20:55:48Z stassats: if vector-map-into uses &rest sequences instead of sequences
2016-10-19T20:57:08Z scymtym: true. that crossed my mind but i just assumed the required changes would not be worth it
2016-10-19T20:57:16Z scymtym: i will look at that option more closely
2016-10-19T20:57:42Z stassats: it would just need to change funcall to apply
2016-10-19T20:58:05Z stassats: applying a &more parameter should be faster than turning it into a dx list
2016-10-19T20:59:24Z stassats: since you apply it in the end anyway
2016-10-19T20:59:29Z scymtym: ok, !DEFINE-ARRAY-DISPATCH just expands into ordinary DEFUNs, so that should work
2016-10-19T21:00:51Z scymtym: a full build seems easier than restoring bang stuff for this
2016-10-19T21:02:34Z stassats: i feel like some stuff could be hoisted out of the array-dispatch functions
2016-10-19T21:02:52Z stassats: what's actually the idea behind it all?
2016-10-19T21:03:06Z stassats: is it just to get optimized aref?
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2016-10-19T21:03:59Z stassats: ok, i think i want to remove vector-map-into dispatch, let me measure what it does
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2016-10-19T21:12:20Z stassats: ok, it avoids functions calls, fair enough
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2016-10-19T21:22:41Z scymtym: couldn't it also turn off bounds checks since the start and end indices come from the vector?
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2016-10-19T21:46:12Z stassats: i might have an idea on how to avoid consing in %map-for-effect
2016-10-19T21:46:24Z stassats: or reduce it
2016-10-19T21:47:24Z stassats: basically it needs something like (setf fast-&rest-nth)
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2016-10-19T21:49:47Z stassats: but that's for some other time
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2016-10-19T21:55:02Z stassats: though extensible sequences make this harder
2016-10-19T21:55:35Z stassats: lists could be popped with (setf fast-&rest-nth), vector need to maintain just one index
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2016-10-19T21:58:37Z stassats: i think i see the way, convert the results of make-sequence-iterator into structs and stash the struct using (setf fast-&rest-nth)
2016-10-19T21:59:01Z stassats: more compact than current lists and faster destructuring
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2016-10-22T15:05:56Z stassats: looking at (defun foo (&optional x) (multiple-value-call #'foo x))
2016-10-22T15:06:14Z stassats: interestingly, (defun foo (x) (multiple-value-call #'foo x)) is different from (defun foo (x) (foo x))
2016-10-22T15:06:29Z stassats: the latter goes through a fdefn unless OPTIMIZE is 3
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2016-10-22T15:37:08Z stassats: so optional-dispatch is attempted to get deleted because it doesn't have any references
2016-10-22T15:37:25Z stassats: it doesn't have references because make-xep-lambda-expression doesn't call it but its entry points
2016-10-22T15:38:52Z stassats: yet there is a call to it
2016-10-22T15:49:16Z chris2: '/go xb
2016-10-22T15:50:47Z stassats: i kinda see what's going on, but not enough to work out a fix
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2016-10-22T15:53:27Z stassats: is that aver even valid?
2016-10-22T15:53:49Z stassats: i guess it is
2016-10-22T15:55:47Z stassats: but it's half bogus anyway
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2016-10-23T11:01:06Z stassats: i think delete-optional-dispatch should not just check for leaf-refs to be null but also that it's not :external
2016-10-23T11:01:19Z stassats: since that doesn't really have any refs but still shouldn't be deleted
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2016-10-23T15:23:31Z stassats: huh, slime seems to got broken around source locating methods
2016-10-23T15:23:35Z stassats: from the debugger
2016-10-23T15:24:52Z stassats: but i can't reproduce it
2016-10-23T15:32:51Z stassats: it seems to depend on debug
2016-10-23T15:33:00Z stassats: but it works for functions and for methods
2016-10-23T15:35:17Z stassats: and not for methods, that is
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2016-10-24T14:12:18Z Shinmera: Regarding my quest for a logo: how would the final decision be made as to which gets the pick?
2016-10-24T14:15:19Z Shinmera: Should I open a ticket on the bug tracker to post my proposals and people can see about resolving it on there or?
2016-10-24T14:16:08Z jdz: I probably have not seen the latest versions, but for the ones I saw I only had one comment: I personally did not like the background squares with rounded corners as a part of the logo.
2016-10-24T14:16:33Z Shinmera: What kind of shape would you prefer?
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2016-10-24T14:21:34Z jdz: I'd prefer a logo without the square.
2016-10-24T14:22:03Z Shinmera: So just the snake part?
2016-10-24T14:22:05Z jdz: For instance the one logo that resembled current non-logo was without a background square.
2016-10-24T14:22:44Z Shinmera: Well it's not so much a "background" as much as it is the entire shape.
2016-10-24T14:23:51Z jdz: Anyway, my two cents.  Logo design is the ultimate bike shed, anyway.
2016-10-24T14:24:37Z Shinmera: Sure. I'm always happy for input though. I can't really hope to make anything that would fit without it.
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2016-10-24T17:11:32Z Shinmera: I have some more concepts ready and made a site to view them all. https://shinmera.github.io/sbcl-logo/
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2016-10-25T00:47:43Z nyef: I'm getting an "undefined variable: SB!VM:+PSEUDO-STATIC-GENERATION+" while compiling genesis.
2016-10-25T00:48:06Z nyef: Looks to be a gencgc-only symbol, but unconditionally referenced from genesis?
2016-10-25T00:50:20Z nyef: Seems like it's never actually referenced at runtime, but is definitely referenced at compile-time.
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2016-10-25T01:10:22Z nyef: Trying to build with the "obvious" fix.
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2016-10-25T15:22:31Z christoph_debian: how far is arm64?
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2016-10-25T17:06:09Z christoph_debian: hm. and arm seems to fail -> https://pbot.rmdir.de/D_d1ABFqbIwdryT8dzpweg
2016-10-25T17:08:42Z christoph_debian: full log https://pbot.rmdir.de/rYLjbHMYF5fee7GrvPfkcg
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2016-10-25T18:02:29Z christoph_debian: oh! I even have arm64 builds
2016-10-25T18:02:34Z christoph_debian: (-:
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2016-10-25T18:30:12Z flip214: christoph_debian: grrr, I misread you as ppc64.... ;(
2016-10-25T18:33:26Z foom: yes, sadly no ppc64le port yet. :)
2016-10-25T18:34:28Z flip214: IBM did put some money in the pot for that, even
2016-10-25T18:35:01Z stassats: did they?
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2016-10-25T18:36:33Z foom: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sbcl-devel/w9LXb8yc-ok says "might be willing to", but there's no "have done so".
2016-10-25T18:37:04Z reb: I've noticed that SBCL at HEAD now fails a bunch of tests on my Raspberry Pi (32-bit ARM):  http://paste.lisp.org/+72AU
2016-10-25T18:38:11Z stassats: reb: something's wrong with your raspberry pi / build
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2016-10-25T18:46:50Z reb: stassats: I'll try again with a fresh checkout.  Thanks.
2016-10-25T18:47:07Z stassats: or something completely non-deterministic
2016-10-25T18:48:03Z reb: No, it's deterministic ... Been happening for a while.
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2016-10-25T19:57:07Z christoph_debian: stassats: my arm builds are failing with 1.3.10 as well ;-)
2016-10-25T19:57:10Z christoph_debian: (see above)
2016-10-25T19:57:18Z christoph_debian: so not only raspi
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2016-10-25T20:05:18Z christoph_debian: oh uhm my bad (at least partially)
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2016-10-25T22:36:50Z reb: Regarding test failures after building on ARM 32-bit Linux at head.  I made a fresh checkout with no local changes and got the test failures.
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2016-10-26T16:53:16Z DGASAU: joshe: do I remember correctly that it's you watching for NetBSD and OpenBSD support here?
2016-10-26T16:53:32Z DGASAU: There's a problem with SBCL since version ca. 1.3.5.
2016-10-26T16:53:51Z DGASAU: It started using types that are under _KERNTYPES on NetBSD.
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2016-10-26T16:54:35Z DGASAU: What isn't nice is that you have to go across a number of files to define it.
2016-10-26T16:55:33Z DGASAU: Like this: http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/pkgsrc/lang/sbcl/patches/?only_with_tag=MAIN
2016-10-26T16:56:02Z DGASAU: It would be nice, if it were centralised in some way.
2016-10-26T16:56:42Z DGASAU: E.g. all files should include target-os.h (IIRC) before any other file.
2016-10-26T17:32:01Z foom: First question would be: what types, and should sbcl actually be using those, or is it a mistake that it does so?
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2016-10-26T17:51:24Z DGASAU: foom: vsize_t, register_t and probably something else.
2016-10-26T17:52:05Z DGASAU: (vaddr_t?)
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2016-10-26T18:11:33Z foom: DGASAU: so e.g. vsize_t -- shouldn't sbcl just be using size_t, instead of vsize_t?
2016-10-26T18:11:52Z DGASAU: foom: I didn't dive into details.
2016-10-26T18:11:55Z DGASAU: Quite probably, yes.
2016-10-26T18:12:04Z DGASAU: Or, maybe, rsize_t, if you want to be picky.
2016-10-26T18:12:05Z foom: that's what it uses on openbsd and linux
2016-10-26T18:13:02Z DGASAU: Is that?
2016-10-26T18:13:21Z DGASAU: I'm not sure, I'll need to check.
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2016-10-29T17:26:47Z ejbs: If I do (open "/dev/ttyUSB0"  :direction :output :if-exists :append) on a USB device and then pull the plug on the device SBCL crashes (also writing to the device doesn't work as expected, however using cat and >> in bash produces the expected results). I dunno if the latter should be considered a bug, but the former probably is
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2016-10-29T17:38:35Z ejbs: Should I file a bug for the first one?
2016-10-29T17:51:50Z nyef: Hrm. A straight-up crash?
2016-10-29T17:52:22Z nyef: This would be a USB->serial interface, wouldn't it?
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2016-10-29T17:53:30Z ejbs: nyef: Yup, as far as I know (my knowledge is a bit lacking)
2016-10-29T17:54:04Z ejbs: I'm using a chipKit Uno32 board's UART interface
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2016-10-29T17:54:48Z ejbs: IT's a  FT232R USB-to-Serial converter apparently
2016-10-29T17:56:23Z nyef: Okay, trying with a pl2303 of some sort.
2016-10-29T17:57:13Z nyef: Nothing happened to the SBCL process when I pulled the plug.
2016-10-29T17:57:32Z ejbs: Well
2016-10-29T17:58:16Z ejbs: Wait, gonna try and see if doing a write-char first is required
2016-10-29T17:58:19Z nyef: I started a fresh SBCL. I issued that OPEN form you gave earlier. I pulled the plug. Nothing happened. I evaluated (), it returned NIL...
2016-10-29T17:59:52Z nyef: Adding a (write-char #\a *) doesn't seem to change things.
2016-10-29T18:00:14Z ejbs: nyef: Did you try it from SLIME?
2016-10-29T18:02:45Z ejbs: nyef: OK so I have the same behavior as you when I do it in a SBCL without SLIME
2016-10-29T18:03:22Z ejbs: With SLIME however I get the Lisp connection closed unexpectedly error
2016-10-29T18:03:29Z ejbs: (no write required)
2016-10-29T18:03:52Z ejbs: (defparameter out (open "/dev/ttyUSB0" :direction :output :if-exists :append)) <- exact code used
2016-10-29T18:06:24Z ejbs: Communication w/ SBCL does work however, I forgot that (force-output out) is a good idea to do (sorry about that)
2016-10-29T18:06:40Z ejbs needs to catch a bus
2016-10-29T18:06:58Z nyef wonders if he even has SLIME installed.
2016-10-29T19:08:41Z flip214: hooray for christoph_debian, 1.3.10 arrived...
2016-10-29T19:20:30Z nyef: ... just in time for 1.3.11 to be released upstream?
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2016-10-29T19:35:49Z flip214: I'm glad for any progress that doesn't cause additional work for me
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2016-10-29T21:12:57Z christoph_debian: flip214: nyef: I'm totally up to doing a .11 tomorrow! ;-) especially if it builds with contribs on arm :->
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2016-10-30T12:20:54Z dwts: Hello guys, I'm reading the sbcl docs regarding the command line arguments in sbcl. Aside from section 7.7.1 of the docs, is somewhere documented anything in more detail? All I can see it that there's a global variable that holds all the arguments.
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2016-10-30T13:27:12Z ejbs: dwts: Might want to check out Roswell https://github.com/roswell/roswell
2016-10-30T13:31:46Z dwts: ejbs: how is this related to my question though? roswell is another lisp implementation if I understand what I read isn't it?
2016-10-30T13:33:04Z ejbs: dwts: Roswell is more like a program that helps you manage your CL implementations and also provides you with integration to the CLI, which seemed like it might interest you
2016-10-30T13:33:26Z ejbs: dwts: Also, what more would you expect from the docs in this case? What is it that you're looking for precisely?
2016-10-30T13:35:03Z dwts: ejbs: a more complete example, sample source code of handling the arguments. I cloned the repo and I see that you are using texinfo. I might submit a patch that contains some sample code once I get better understanding of cli handling
2016-10-30T13:36:21Z nyef: dwts: There's an example of using *posix-argv* in tests/run-tests.lisp. I make no claim as to its quality.
2016-10-30T13:36:27Z dwts: sb-ext:*posix-argv* is just a list that holds all the arguments. Aside from that which I see no standard way (sbcl standard way) to handle those
2016-10-30T13:36:37Z dwts: nyef: thank you, will check it right now
2016-10-30T13:37:59Z ejbs: dwts: I mean, I guess just use them? You can set an entry point when you build an image (entry point == the function that runs when you start your image), that's where you'd use sb-ext:*posix-argv*
2016-10-30T13:39:26Z nyef: Mmm. That, or there are other options. If you use the --load option, your loaded script can also go over the argv.
2016-10-30T13:39:52Z nyef: The runtime picks off its options, then SBCL does, then *posix-argv* is what's left.
2016-10-30T13:40:05Z White_Flame: dwts: I guess you're looking for a library to parse cmdline params?  That's not SBCL specific, but there are some: http://www.cliki.net/command-line%20options%20parser
2016-10-30T13:40:15Z dwts: yes but how? I mean, I might want -w flag to take argument but not the -b flag is this somehow handled in a "standard" way from sbcl?
2016-10-30T13:40:40Z White_Flame: in all languages, you're basically given a list of strings from the cmdline, that's it
2016-10-30T13:40:57Z dwts: White_Flame: i've tried that but it's underdocumented
2016-10-30T13:41:20Z dwts: White_Flame: yes but you can say in C for example in the while loop that parses teh args if this takes arguments or not
2016-10-30T13:41:33Z White_Flame: then write a loop in lisp that consumes them the same?
2016-10-30T13:41:49Z dwts: and you have "getopts"
2016-10-30T13:41:55Z dwts: White_Flame: yes I could do that
2016-10-30T13:42:09Z dwts: my question was if there's already a *documented* solution
2016-10-30T13:42:20Z White_Flame: right, getopts isn't part of C; it's just another 3rd party lib.  See if one of the above linked solutions works similarly
2016-10-30T13:43:02Z dwts: yes but there are different implementations of it
2016-10-30T13:43:04Z White_Flame: heck, first google hit: https://github.com/keithj/getopt
2016-10-30T13:43:34Z White_Flame: and there are different C implementations of arg parsing libs, too
2016-10-30T13:43:39Z dwts: heck, still no docs :>
2016-10-30T13:43:41Z White_Flame: I think you just need to learnthe tools here
2016-10-30T13:43:43Z ejbs: http://lisp-search.acceleration.net/html/getopt.html
2016-10-30T13:43:49Z ejbs: I think these are the docs
2016-10-30T13:44:02Z ejbs: dwts: Also, it's always a good idea to DL the library and see if it has docstrings
2016-10-30T13:44:12Z ejbs: (or check out one of the files)
2016-10-30T13:44:34Z White_Flame: especially for those that only have a single main.lisp file
2016-10-30T13:44:43Z dwts: ejbs: checking
2016-10-30T13:45:07Z White_Flame: heh, "Quicklip Package Index"
2016-10-30T13:45:32Z dwts: White_Flame: I'm willing to learn the tools if those are document it. Most lisp projects out there it's just a bunch of lisp files and a readme file taht says "does <put thing here"
2016-10-30T13:45:37Z dwts: and that's pretty much it
2016-10-30T13:45:38Z dwts: :P
2016-10-30T13:45:43Z ejbs: A more SBCL specific question: I just installed roswell because that seems like a good idea and now I want to remove my old SBCL install that I did 'manually' (as in, I did sh install.sh or whatever after downloading SBCL). How do I uninstall SBCL? I'm on Linux
2016-10-30T13:46:08Z White_Flame: yeah, that's an effect of the audience being smaller, and Lisp trending towards being a roll-your-own language.  But for small tools like this, it's not much of a barrier
2016-10-30T13:46:10Z dwts: ejbs: via your distro's package manager?
2016-10-30T13:46:32Z dwts: ejbs: what distro are you using?
2016-10-30T13:46:57Z ejbs: dwts: I didn't use my package manager! I'm on Ubuntu though
2016-10-30T13:47:15Z dwts: so building from source?
2016-10-30T13:47:16Z ejbs: Good workflow: Find project on Github, check if it's on here http://quickdocs.org/
2016-10-30T13:47:22Z ejbs: dwts: Yes
2016-10-30T13:47:58Z ejbs: Aah, whatever, I can deal with having an outdated SBCL on here I guess
2016-10-30T13:48:02Z dwts: ejbs: then I would go to the directory where you cloned the repo and check for the docs if they contain uninstall info
2016-10-30T13:48:25Z ejbs: dwts: I should probably do my homework, yes :-)
2016-10-30T13:48:45Z nyef: If the docs don't help, look over the install script to see what it does.
2016-10-30T13:49:37Z dwts: White_Flame: I see what you mean about the small audience, but still even the best code if it's undocumented loses some its value
2016-10-30T13:50:10Z White_Flame: so many things are so easy to do manually in Lisp, or creating a custom handler, that shared central libs like that don't get all that much love
2016-10-30T13:50:28Z White_Flame: which yeah is unfortunate, but as I mentioned, not a huge barrier
2016-10-30T13:50:53Z ejbs: There are a lot of CLI stuff, if you know where to look
2016-10-30T13:51:41Z White_Flame: in my personal experience, commandline args to lisp programs also tend to be lisp-formatted, instead of unix-like with dashes and such
2016-10-30T13:52:09Z White_Flame: so the getopts model may not necessarily be applicable anyway
2016-10-30T13:52:49Z dwts: since there's an option to compile the code and create a binary, there's no point in my opinion to use lisp-formatted cli arguments
2016-10-30T13:53:24Z White_Flame: it makes ingesting of arguments a no-brainer, and READing the args gives them proper types, instead of just dumb C-style strings
2016-10-30T13:54:02Z ejbs: White_Flame: READing user supplied args sounds scary
2016-10-30T13:54:12Z White_Flame: one model is to read the args and use them as APPLY to a parsing function
2016-10-30T13:54:27Z White_Flame: then you can deconstruct them as lambda arguments
2016-10-30T13:54:55Z White_Flame: ejbs: if you've got access to creating cmdline params, you're fully user-privileged on the box anyway
2016-10-30T13:56:34Z dwts: btw, what I meant by docs earlier I meant something like this: https://docs.ruby-lang.org/en/2.1.0/OptionParser.html or this: https://docs.python.org/3.3/library/argparse.html
2016-10-30T13:56:47Z ejbs: White_Flame: What if someone does a lispprogram | curl shady-uri :-P?
2016-10-30T13:56:56Z dwts: those are (almost) full examples on how to parse arguments in different langs (ruby and python)
2016-10-30T13:57:02Z White_Flame: dwts: and if they were part of the language spec, they'd be documented in a standard form as well
2016-10-30T13:57:16Z dwts: indeed
2016-10-30T13:57:28Z dwts: so the answer to my initial question is "no" ?
2016-10-30T13:57:35Z ejbs: Mnyeeeh, kinda
2016-10-30T13:57:56Z dwts: thank you :)
2016-10-30T13:58:10Z White_Flame: the cmdline arg access in SBCL is fully documented, so that's the general answer to your original question.  Grabbing a lib to parse them further is 3rd party lib territory.
2016-10-30T13:58:52Z dwts: you mean the one line in sbcl page? :O or is this elsewhere fully documented?
2016-10-30T13:59:06Z White_Flame: and I've just manually parsed simple args, or written my own little DSL spec per project, so I'm not familiar with the libs out there
2016-10-30T13:59:30Z White_Flame: dwts: cmdline arg access is a argv list of strings.  That's the full documentation of the full access to cmdline args.
2016-10-30T13:59:43Z White_Flame: what is missing from that? :-P
2016-10-30T13:59:58Z White_Flame: same you get in C, which is where this particular notion comes from
2016-10-30T14:00:02Z dwts: working code of parsing those :P
2016-10-30T14:00:07Z White_Flame: that's per project
2016-10-30T14:00:20Z White_Flame: and that's nothing to do with documenting the data you get, itself
2016-10-30T14:00:30Z dwts: well in C is different because you also get getopt(3) man page
2016-10-30T14:00:37Z White_Flame: that's not C
2016-10-30T14:00:41Z White_Flame: that's linux
2016-10-30T14:00:41Z dwts: yes
2016-10-30T14:00:46Z dwts: or bsd
2016-10-30T14:01:16Z dwts: but you have info on how to write sample code to get started
2016-10-30T14:01:27Z White_Flame: it all depends on what you want from them
2016-10-30T14:01:32Z dwts: yeah
2016-10-30T14:01:38Z dwts: in any case thank you
2016-10-30T14:01:45Z White_Flame: if you have a list of numbers, parse them.  If you have keyword args, apply or destructuring-bind them
2016-10-30T14:02:06Z dwts: what about having both?
2016-10-30T14:02:08Z White_Flame: if they're just naked strings like hostnames and usernames and such, then you already have them
2016-10-30T14:02:23Z White_Flame: so there's no "Here's how you parse args!"  it all depends on what you want from them
2016-10-30T14:02:41Z White_Flame: you have all the data there, and the full power of Lisp, and access to any lib that might be similar to your use case
2016-10-30T14:02:52Z White_Flame: but the fundamental access starts just from a list of strings
2016-10-30T14:03:34Z dwts: sigh, I just need to get over it :)
2016-10-30T14:03:37Z White_Flame: C rallies around partiular standards for this, because string handling in C is weak :)
2016-10-30T14:03:51Z dwts: that's very true
2016-10-30T14:03:56Z dwts: and also bug-generous
2016-10-30T14:03:57Z dwts: :P
2016-10-30T14:03:58Z White_Flame: and it's HARD in C, while you see these various libs in Lisp that are just a few dozen lines
2016-10-30T14:07:04Z dwts: yes it's indeed in a few dozen lines but...ok let's not start another loop :)
2016-10-30T14:14:41Z _death: it's also easy to write a define-command macro with support for required/presence/value arguments
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2016-10-30T14:34:59Z dwts: White_Flame: i managed to make an idiotic example using this code: http://sprunge.us/iXWG
2016-10-30T14:35:06Z dwts: doesn't do anything for real
2016-10-30T14:35:08Z dwts: but works
2016-10-30T14:35:33Z dwts: building it with sbcl --no-sysinit --no-userinit --script build.lisp
2016-10-30T14:35:48Z dwts: and running as any other binary file with ./ from the working directory
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2016-10-30T19:14:36Z ejbs: nyef: I did end up reporting the bug we talked about yesterday (the USB unplugging issue)
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2016-10-30T19:27:16Z nyef: ejbs: I saw. I'm still not convinced that it's an SBCL bug rather than a SLIME bug, though. (-:
2016-10-30T19:27:45Z nyef: Might also be dependent on the specific USB-serial driver involved.
2016-10-30T19:28:03Z nyef: Though that is somewhat unlikely.
2016-10-30T19:29:03Z nyef: I did try the "simple" thing where I started a thread that ran an infinite loop, sleeping, then opened the serial connection and pulled the plug, but still nothing.
2016-10-30T19:33:27Z ejbs: nyef: Yeah, hopefully it's a SLIME bug and not a SBCL bug
2016-10-30T19:34:00Z nyef: Mmm. The really fun possibility is if it's a device-driver bug.
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2016-10-30T19:39:02Z ejbs: nyef: Did you try and replicate it with SLIME?
2016-10-30T19:39:28Z nyef: No, I don't really do SLIME these days.
2016-10-30T19:39:44Z nyef: And I've had a couple of things going on this weekend.
2016-10-30T19:40:19Z ejbs: Alright, I hope you don't mind me asking but what do you use instead of SLIME? SLIMV?
2016-10-30T19:40:35Z nyef: A terminal window.
2016-10-30T19:41:45Z ejbs: Oh ok, why? Do you just not need the stuff that SLIME gives you?
2016-10-30T19:42:33Z nyef: I went through a period of several months or more where SLIME couldn't stay connected to my application for more than a minute or so, and it just wasn't worth digging into in order to fix.
2016-10-30T19:42:48Z nyef: At that point I just gave up and did things another way.
2016-10-30T19:43:02Z nyef: Never really got back to SLIME again since.
2016-10-30T19:43:49Z ejbs: Alright, cool :-)
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2016-10-31T13:10:48Z stassats: well.. the win32 build seems to be broken
2016-10-31T13:11:21Z stassats: -x86
2016-10-31T13:11:31Z stassats: i tested some time after the freeze and seemed ok
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2016-10-31T20:22:48Z dougk_: I failed to make a better Halloween-themed reference in my last commit message about dead code. Oh well.
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2016-10-31T21:06:56Z nyef: Hrm. I'm aware of some dead code myself. Actually, I found evidence that I've known about some dead code eight years ago, and it's still there.
2016-10-31T21:07:18Z nyef: ... Maybe a reference to zombies?
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