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2015-03-27T21:50:11Z francogrex: I tried building sbcl-1.2.9 on windows 7 with new mingw and still gives same error as before when I thought the problem was the OS windows XP
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2015-03-27T21:53:08Z francogrex: c:\mingw\include\parts\time.h:65:8: error: redefinition of 'struct timespec'
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2015-03-27T22:17:31Z francogrex: next is to try with Cygwin does it work?
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2015-03-27T23:05:18Z stassats: it does work with mingw
2015-03-27T23:05:31Z stassats: for other people, that is
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2015-03-28T04:16:38Z aeth: what are the minimum system requirement for sbcl on ARM? Do you think it will run on a Raspberry Pi? Pi 2?
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2015-03-28T05:59:31Z |3b|: aeth: i think people have run it on pi
2015-03-28T06:11:07Z aeth: great
2015-03-28T06:12:25Z Quadrescence: #'ccl:rebuild-ccl is such a great feature. Just saying. ;)
2015-03-28T06:28:02Z |3b|: don't expect too much performance out of a pi though :) even high-end arm stuff is slower than low-end PCs from what i've seen
2015-03-28T06:30:14Z joshe: the only way to get good performance out of arm is to cluster them
2015-03-28T06:32:19Z |3b|: or measure performance relative to power consumption, the high-end arm would probably run longer on a battery than the low-end PC would :)
2015-03-28T06:42:41Z aeth: |3b|: I'm mostly going to be using it as a server for e.g. IRC
2015-03-28T06:42:57Z aeth: Leaving my really powerful computer with a really noisy fan on all day has started to really bother me.
2015-03-28T06:43:01Z aeth: And it's very wasteful
2015-03-28T06:44:14Z aeth: (and by really powerful computer, I mean really powerful circa 2010... it's getting old now)
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2015-03-28T10:46:17Z Xof: when I build arm builds, I build them on a pi (so the binaries from sbcl.org should work)
2015-03-28T10:47:06Z Xof: I have switched my main home computer to a wandboard quad, which is perfectly tolerable (but I mostly don't use it for compute-bound processes, and also it replaces a 2004-era machine so my benchmark for comparison is not the same as other peoples')
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2015-03-28T14:35:05Z Xof: I wish debian would hurry up and release jessie
2015-03-28T14:35:34Z Xof: that would mean that I could stop doing sbcl releases on a squeeze chroot whose ssh is so old it doesn't understand my ~/.ssh/config
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2015-03-28T21:31:34Z names: ccl-logbot ASau dougk__ Quadrescence oleo echo-area selat psy_ dustinm` stassats LiamH DeadTrickster milosn edgar-rft loke Shinmera scymtym_ irsol gingerale zacts aeth les karswell foom p_l yauz_2 jackdaniel alchemis7 flip214 snafuchs abbe luis fikusz_ mood dsp_ akkad scymtym jrm ivan4th Bike Adlai Posterdati heddwch jdz nicdev minion specbot psilord christoph_debian kanru reb ams |3b| White_Flame ferada Intensity drmeister pchrist Ralt brucem PuercoPop
2015-03-28T21:31:34Z names: carvite pkhuong joshe fe[nl]ix Blkt cojy_ antoszka jsnell
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2015-03-29T03:08:51Z pkhuong: so. Z3 is open source. that's one way to fix our type system ;)
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2015-03-29T03:39:06Z Quadrescence: ha
2015-03-29T03:44:05Z pkhuong: Quadrescence: it has a built-in abstract interpretation mode. Z3 feels like the LLVM of program analysis to me.
2015-03-29T03:44:28Z brucem: pkhuong: I've been looking at that for a while off and on ...
2015-03-29T03:44:31Z pkhuong: sure it doesn't have everything you need, but if your needs are textbook enough, it'll do.
2015-03-29T03:44:42Z brucem: pkhuong: It isn't clear that the performance is there for large scale usage from what some people have said.
2015-03-29T03:44:51Z Quadrescence: pkhuong, :)))
2015-03-29T03:45:12Z pkhuong: brucem: CL types aren't large scale for SAT or even SMT
2015-03-29T03:45:48Z brucem: pkhuong: ah ... I've been looking at doing refinement types for a while.
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2015-03-29T04:12:56Z dougk_: anyone in the mood to review a change to 64-bit ensure-symbol-tls-index right now-ishly?
2015-03-29T04:20:19Z pkhuong: dougk_: sure
2015-03-29T04:20:30Z pkhuong: between that and trolling canlii for funny cases
2015-03-29T04:21:52Z dougk_: oh thanks. Did you see my email about whether it's allowed to elide a move into an apparently-unused vop result? (unrelated)
2015-03-29T04:22:45Z dougk_: the idea is that atomic-incf of a struct slot could use 'lock inc' instead of the more complicated xadd sequence
2015-03-29T04:23:09Z pkhuong: I don't think lock inc is less complex than lock xadd
2015-03-29T04:24:00Z pkhuong: my mail client is downloading a month's worth of SBCL stuff. I'll take a look at that other email asap
2015-03-29T04:24:38Z dougk_: it might not be microarchitecturally faster but it avoids 1 register and 1 instruction
2015-03-29T04:25:31Z pkhuong: I'm pretty sure that's OK.
2015-03-29T04:25:40Z dougk_: btw, SBCL 1.2.9 broke QPX badly and most likely QPX is buggy, not SBCL. (also unrelated)
2015-03-29T04:25:42Z pkhuong: in fact that's the #1 thing I'd want a peephole pass to address
2015-03-29T04:26:44Z dougk_: i think rather than a peephole pass, the codegen driver could pass nil to the vop as the TN for any unused result, and the vop could know to do something "better"
2015-03-29T04:27:40Z pkhuong: the less declarative VOPs are the harder it is for passes to communicate.
2015-03-29T04:28:27Z pkhuong: next you'll want better regalloc because only one variant needs fewer registers than the other.
2015-03-29T04:28:34Z dougk_: yes!
2015-03-29T04:29:40Z pkhuong: so you want something that happens earlier than IR2 -> asm ;)
2015-03-29T04:30:41Z dougk_: want me to mail a patch for tls change, or review post-commit? it passes all tests plus some manual multi-threaded pounding.
2015-03-29T04:31:46Z pkhuong: I'd prefer a patch if it's small
2015-03-29T04:31:51Z pkhuong: otherwise, I'll pull
2015-03-29T04:32:43Z dougk_: i'd say small. line counts are about -130 / +90.
2015-03-29T04:33:12Z pkhuong: all right, let's go for a patch (:
2015-03-29T04:41:05Z dougk_: pkhuong: sent
2015-03-29T04:44:36Z pkhuong: ... man, that pseudoatomic over a spinlock is meh
2015-03-29T04:44:39Z pkhuong: but ok.
2015-03-29T04:45:37Z pkhuong: so, turns out that x86 doesn't guarantee atomicity for mixed width accesses
2015-03-29T04:46:21Z pkhuong: since the lisp side and GC will always do 64 bit accesses, we need to write and read from the lock/counter pair with 64 bit accesses as well
2015-03-29T04:47:10Z pkhuong: is there a nice way to allow interrupts around pause?
2015-03-29T04:47:50Z pkhuong: also, in the assembly routine, the result type is really unsigned-num
2015-03-29T04:48:04Z pkhuong: but we have so few TLS slots that it doesn't matter
2015-03-29T04:50:08Z pkhuong: (inst add free-tls-index-ea n-word-bytes) is that correct?
2015-03-29T04:50:20Z pkhuong: yeah, I see
2015-03-29T04:50:34Z pkhuong: it's not a fixnum, it's a word aligned value that's punned as a fixnum
2015-03-29T04:51:13Z pkhuong: you can use assemble to introduce a new scope for labels, btw.
2015-03-29T04:52:05Z pkhuong: (ash tls-size word-shift) is that really more clear than * n-w-bytes?
2015-03-29T04:52:31Z pkhuong: rest looks fine.
2015-03-29T04:53:35Z dougk_: so, pseudoatomic + spinlock is unchanged. Probably less bad than holding a spinlock and getting an interrupt, right?
2015-03-29T04:53:44Z pkhuong: yeah.
2015-03-29T04:54:05Z pkhuong: we could have something almost lock free, esp. if we start recycling indices, but that's definitely out of scope
2015-03-29T04:54:21Z dougk_: so, there's a 1-instruction way to bump the counter and release the spinlock: lock add foo (+ most-negative-word 8)
2015-03-29T04:54:34Z dougk_: but I can just widen the two accesses if that makes the code clearer.
2015-03-29T04:55:23Z dougk_: yes, the result is unsigned-num but really it's (mod tls-size), so not really wrong.
2015-03-29T04:55:49Z pkhuong: (mod #.(* tls-size n-w-byte)) ?
2015-03-29T04:56:01Z dougk_: yes, sure.
2015-03-29T04:56:06Z pkhuong: either way, still a fixnum
2015-03-29T04:56:16Z pkhuong: I think the xadd form is fairly common, so whichever one is easier to code in asm I guess.
2015-03-29T04:56:58Z dougk_: doesn't need an xadd because the holder of the lock can just add an immediate. But it needs that in a register because the imm isn't imm32.
2015-03-29T04:57:13Z pkhuong: ah right
2015-03-29T04:58:04Z dougk_: so, just introduce a new scope for labels to avoid the emit-label, and use tls-size * n-w-bytes. Anything else ?
2015-03-29T04:58:55Z pkhuong: nope, the only issue for me are the mixed width acceses. The rest is a matter of personal preference.
2015-03-29T05:01:07Z dougk_: i like the single-instruction release-lock+ptr-bump but then the test for already-nonzero at the top has to branch to a different point that doesn't do the ptr-bump. I'll see how that looks.
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2015-03-29T05:07:18Z pkhuong: dougk_: oh oh. you might want to check for non-zero TLS index in the spinlock loop
2015-03-29T05:08:03Z dougk_: yes, that's a nice optimization
2015-03-29T05:08:05Z pkhuong: scratch that. it's only once per symbol and usually at load time.
2015-03-29T05:08:13Z dougk_: oh, ok.
2015-03-29T05:08:16Z pkhuong: not worth the additional paths ;)
2015-03-29T05:08:22Z dougk_: actually this code is used in progv.
2015-03-29T05:08:40Z dougk_: after it has been verified that the symbol's tls-index was 0 by the bind vop.
2015-03-29T05:08:41Z pkhuong: I don't care about progv; do you/QPX?
2015-03-29T05:08:44Z dougk_: no
2015-03-29T05:08:49Z dougk_: but that's the other path
2015-03-29T05:09:41Z dougk_: so are you saying that a 'bts' with lock prefix on a :dword can spuriously do the wrong thing if another thread is doing 'bts' of the same bit as a :qword ?
2015-03-29T05:09:50Z dougk_: i'm unclear on what the failure mode is.
2015-03-29T05:10:59Z pkhuong: it works in practice
2015-03-29T05:11:04Z pkhuong: but intel docs tell us not to do that.
2015-03-29T05:12:25Z dougk_: ok, but once the thread owns that bit, it can read the low :dword alone, right ? 'lock bts' is a read and write barrier
2015-03-29T05:13:02Z pkhuong: things like writing to a location as a dword and reading from it as a qword could be racy or are just unspecified, iiuc.
2015-03-29T05:13:09Z pkhuong: even with a lock prefix
2015-03-29T05:15:22Z dougk_: fascinating. so read the tls-index as a qword, then AND with something. It would be nice to find the authoritative citation. My intuition would have been that Intel worked hard to get mixed-size right. I thought they even guarantee atomicity of misaligned :qword xadd crossing a cache line (horrible case).
2015-03-29T05:16:58Z pkhuong: they do, and it does work currently, I'm pretty sure
2015-03-29T05:17:11Z pkhuong: but they reserve the right to stop supporting them.
2015-03-29T05:35:12Z pkhuong: Software should access semaphores (shared memory used for signalling between multiple processors) using identical
2015-03-29T05:35:15Z pkhuong: addresses and operand lengths. For example, if one processor accesses a semaphore using a word access,
2015-03-29T05:35:18Z pkhuong: other processors should not access the semaphore using a byte access.
2015-03-29T05:35:50Z pkhuong: Intel's Vol 3A, section 8, p 4
2015-03-29T05:36:53Z pkhuong: ... that guide also includes stuff like " Do not perform non-temporal stores to
2015-03-29T05:36:54Z pkhuong: a cache line containing a location used to implement a semaphore."
2015-03-29T05:37:37Z pkhuong: which is hard to achieve when your compiler likes using libc memcpy... say gcc.
2015-03-29T05:41:16Z dougk_: fair enough, but my semaphore *was* accessed using the same size to set and reset as it stood.
2015-03-29T05:41:38Z dougk_: anyway, almost done with the changes for you
2015-03-29T05:41:51Z pkhuong: not by lisp code
2015-03-29T05:43:37Z pkhuong: What I find really annoying is that intel doesn't even try to specify what might happen if one does use mixed width accesses on semaphore memory. We have these two sentences, and that's it.
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2015-03-29T13:27:31Z francogrex: stassats: are there special consideration for trying to build on mingw? I have win7 now, MinGW and msys are the most recent install by mingw-get-setup.exe and sbcl is the source 1.2.9. building with sbcl-1.0.55, using the shell command sh make.sh
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2015-03-29T15:09:19Z stassats: you have to figure that out yourself
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2015-03-29T20:23:53Z |3b|: anyone who knows how sb-alien works around? http://paste.lisp.org/+354J
2015-03-29T20:26:10Z |3b| has the struct at the top, and wants to get the 2nd element of EXCEPTION-INFORMATION as a string. the loop in the code works, the (deref (sap-alien ... c-string)) just returns the first byte of the string
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2015-03-29T20:30:42Z |3b|: also, anyone have thoughts on what would be the best way to handle DBG_PRINTEXCEPTION_C on windows? it is a hook to allow programs/libs to send strings to the debugger to print.
2015-03-29T20:31:10Z |3b|: currently sbcl just errors with unhandled exception, which is rather annoying when it is just an info message from some lib
2015-03-29T20:32:15Z |3b|: completely ignoring it would be an improvement, but not sure if it should try to print them to *debug-io* or WARN or something instead
2015-03-29T20:38:52Z scymtym_: maybe a new variable that can bound to NIL or a stream as desired? like drakma's *HEADER-STREAM*.
2015-03-29T20:47:00Z |3b|: i guess defaulting to printing to *debug-io* might be reasonable, if it is interpreted as being similar to STDERR in a unix
2015-03-29T20:47:29Z |3b|: possibly with a separate variable so it can be disabled separately if desired
2015-03-29T20:48:20Z |3b|: clhs warm
2015-03-29T20:48:20Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for warm.
2015-03-29T20:48:24Z |3b|: clhs warn
2015-03-29T20:48:25Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_warn.htm
2015-03-29T20:49:17Z |3b|: or maybe *error-output* would be more appropriate
2015-03-29T20:50:19Z |3b|: and i guess WARN might be nicer, since that would allow *break-on-signals* to stop when it happens
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2015-03-29T20:52:50Z scymtym_: maybe something like SB-EXT:*ON-PACKAGE-VARIANCE* with the additional option of specifying a stream?
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2015-03-29T21:27:12Z |3b|: ah, looks like i can do (cast (sap-alien ... (* char)) c-string), good enough for now
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2015-03-29T21:48:38Z |3b| filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1437947 about handling that exception better
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2015-03-30T03:08:52Z akkad: are there any old alpha targets for sbcl?
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2015-03-30T14:20:40Z nyef: G'morning all.
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2015-03-30T14:21:52Z nyef: So... My stack and DX fixes broke QPX? Neat!
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2015-03-30T14:46:52Z Th30n: hello everyone
2015-03-30T14:48:02Z Th30n: If I'm interested in contributing to SBCL where should I start. Is there some sort of a guide? Or should I just read HACKING file, find some easy bugs and post patches through launchpad comments?
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2015-03-30T14:53:24Z Xof: that second plan sounds good to me
2015-03-30T14:53:46Z Xof: (be persistent, but polite, when time-poor maintainers look like they're ignoring you)
2015-03-30T14:54:47Z Cymew: http://www.pvk.ca/Blog/2013/04/13/starting-to-hack-on-sbcl/ might give some pointers
2015-03-30T14:58:25Z Th30n: Xof: Thanks, apsolutely. And I probably won't have as much time or knowledge to send patches every day. :)
2015-03-30T14:58:32Z Th30n: Cymew: I'll be sure to check that out.
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2015-03-30T15:18:27Z fe[nl]ix_: Th30n: and don't take it personal if nobody answers emails for days at a time
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2015-03-30T15:37:18Z stassats: for months, you mean?
2015-03-30T15:38:33Z fe[nl]ix_: sometimes
2015-03-30T15:38:45Z fe[nl]ix_: let's be optimistic
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2015-03-30T15:45:36Z stassats: the more detail the question contains usually means the sooner it will be answered
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2015-03-30T15:54:49Z beach: Good evening everyone!
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2015-03-30T15:56:16Z fe[nl]ix_: hej beach
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2015-03-30T15:57:34Z beach: What is a simple way of writing the contents of a normal Common Lisp vector with element-type (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8) to a Unix file descriptor?  I am just conducting some experiments, so I don't need anything highly maintainable.
2015-03-30T15:58:12Z stassats: write-sequence
2015-03-30T15:58:15Z nyef: Hello beach.
2015-03-30T15:58:35Z nyef: Yeah, WRITE-SEQUENCE sounds about right.
2015-03-30T15:58:44Z stassats: it's fast too
2015-03-30T15:58:54Z stassats: if you're using a ub8 file stream
2015-03-30T15:59:00Z beach: I would need to convert the file descriptor to a stream would I not?
2015-03-30T15:59:09Z beach: I have the number 1.
2015-03-30T16:00:00Z stassats: (sb-sys:make-fd-stream 1 :output t)
2015-03-30T16:00:12Z beach: Ah, nice! Thanks!
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2015-03-30T16:00:40Z beach: Much better than handling SAPs and such.
2015-03-30T16:04:27Z beach: #<SB-SYS:FD-STREAM for "descriptor 1" {1008067093}> is not a binary output stream.
2015-03-30T16:04:38Z beach: Is it a character stream?
2015-03-30T16:04:56Z nyef: Use a :element-type with make-fd-stream, then?
2015-03-30T16:05:09Z beach: Right.   Trying...
2015-03-30T16:06:26Z beach: Seems to have worked.  Thanks.  Now I just have to find out where the output went. :)
2015-03-30T16:09:03Z beach: Found it.  Thanks again.
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2015-03-30T16:46:50Z beach: Since I am here: What do you think about this result for SHIFTF: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146587
2015-03-30T16:48:03Z beach: Followup question: should SHIFTF ever return a number of values not equal to 1?  The Common Lisp HyperSpec seems to suggest it should always return one value.
2015-03-30T16:48:23Z beach: Oops.  Dinner.  I'll be back later.
2015-03-30T16:50:16Z nyef: It's worse than that: It implies that multiple-valued places generally will have any values after the first one ignored / set to nil.
2015-03-30T16:50:49Z nyef: Ah. No implication at all, it's very explicit.
2015-03-30T16:52:29Z nyef: For more fun, try with side-effects within the accessors: All of the values are to be read before the first is set, and they are all to be read and written left-to-right.
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2015-03-30T17:14:33Z stassats: multiple values aren't usually saved
2015-03-30T17:14:42Z stassats: so i would expect a single return value
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2015-03-30T17:23:06Z beach: stassats: Yeah, I think it was written so that MULTIPLE-VALUE-PROG1 wouldn't be necessary.
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2015-03-30T17:23:26Z beach: nyef: And that is not the case?
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2015-03-31T03:11:16Z akkad: can make.sh use gmake(1) -j feature?
2015-03-31T03:25:23Z |3b| thinks it worked at one point, most of the build time is CL code that won't run in parallel though, so doesn't help much
2015-03-31T03:25:42Z akkad: k
2015-03-31T03:27:01Z |3b|: people have suggested building contribs in parallel, not sure if anyone actually tried though
2015-03-31T03:29:24Z pkhuong: ... did you know mprotect isn't async signal safe according to posix?
2015-03-31T03:29:38Z pkhuong: I wonder if that's causing issues on OS X
2015-03-31T03:30:06Z pkhuong: wait no, darwin pumps events
2015-03-31T03:32:30Z akkad: wow. that thread bomb in SB-CONCURRENCY-TEST will take a system down
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2015-03-31T20:19:54Z francogrex: I finally managed to build sbcl 1.2.10 on windows. The problems I had were because of MinGW and its timespec struct in unistd.h and parts/time.h. I actually had to include unistd.h in pthread_win32.h which was not... anyway ok now
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2015-03-31T21:05:23Z stassats: do you have a patch?
2015-03-31T21:05:36Z stassats: too late again
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