09:20:25 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #sbcl 09:20:26 09:20:26 -!- names: ccl-logbot loke ivan`` daimrod jsnell_ bege @Krystof kludge` ASau prxq_ christoph_debian pranavrc attila_lendvai kanru` milosn flip216 fikusz stassats reb` Bike angavrilov danlentz Hydan easye gko edgar-rft echo-area Quadrescence jdz DeadTrickster |3b| nicdev brucem Posterdati psilord pegu minion foom specbot antoszka xymox abarch` Tribal Subfusc pkhuong luis` redline6561 Blkt antifuchs asedeno kanru fe[nl]ix pchrist scymtym 09:22:45 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 09:26:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:31:47 -!- kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:34:38 kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #sbcl 09:35:59 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:39:37 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:59 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 10:42:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:02:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 11:21:43 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:02 ASau` [~user@p5797FD11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 11:47:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:59 davazp [~user@80.31.10.120] has joined #sbcl 11:48:59 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF97651.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:09 Bike [~Glossina@stephdining-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 12:14:54 -!- davazp [~user@80.31.10.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:38:50 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:f867:b7b2:9e43:4ef2] has joined #sbcl 12:49:55 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-245-130.uio.no] has joined #sbcl 12:50:48 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-160-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 12:56:06 tylergoza [~tylergoza@72.29.34.246] has joined #sbcl 13:02:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@stephdining-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:03:03 -!- psilord [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:05:38 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:05:40 -!- tylergoza [~tylergoza@72.29.34.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:05:57 tylergoza [~tylergoza@72.29.34.246] has joined #sbcl 13:09:13 -!- tylergoza [~tylergoza@72.29.34.246] has quit [Client Quit] 13:09:37 tylergoza [~tylergoza@72.29.34.246] has joined #sbcl 13:13:32 jsnell_: The debugging stuff works (returning from a frame, restarting a frame, eval in a frame). Also, I've made trace :encapsulate nil raise an error condition for minimally-compiled-functions. 13:14:16 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:15:35 The documentation isn't done yet, but I've written an explanation of the intermediate-code instructions. That might be helpful. :) 13:32:16 the documentation that's there so far looks good 13:33:49 some fairly superficial comments on the code, feel free to prioritize low or ignore completely: 13:34:29 - general style is to have a newline between two defuns 13:37:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:38:29 - the naming of the % intermediates seems a bit inconsistent, at least with regards to dashes (I'd have one between any two words). also %argnum would perhaps be better called %arg-count 13:42:23 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #sbcl 13:45:04 - re: file-level documentation of eval2-compile, %global-compile seems to be missing from the list, which leaves the representation of function calls very unclear. I thought first they were passed through unchanged 13:46:49 Oops. %global-call. How did I miss that? 13:47:15 err... right. how did I mistype that :-) 13:48:03 :) 13:51:36 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #sbcl 13:51:55 OK. Regarding the code formatting, I think I'll do some reorganizing of definitions inside the files anyway. It's a bit of a mess right now (although the split into multiple files already helped a lot). 13:53:06 true. also I'm finding that the documentation is helping a lot ;-) 13:53:39 Heh. :) 13:55:56 psilord [~pkeller@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 14:14:55 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 14:29:15 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-245-130.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Client exciting.] 14:41:46 just sending an avalanche of SIGCHLD to "System timer watchdog thread" doesn't produce the same thing as sigchld sent from fork 14:42:27 so ? 14:42:49 well, the latter breaks safepoint logic 14:43:25 but I have to load the CPU first, otherwise it's not reproducible 14:43:31 how did you generate those SIGCHLDs ? 14:43:45 (alien-funcall (extern-alien "pthread_kill" (function int unsigned-long int)) (sb-thread::thread-os-thread thread) signal) 14:44:43 i'm trying to come up with a test case which doesn't consume too much electricity and produces the problem quickly 14:45:03 try while true; do kill -CHLD $(pidof sbcl); sleep .001; done 14:45:17 i need to send it to a particular thread 14:45:34 why ? 14:45:45 because that's how it breaks 14:46:13 how does the kernel send the signal to that thread only ? 14:46:37 when a child exits 14:46:41 it sends it to random threads? 14:47:22 yes 14:47:45 and you only see this bug when it's that specific thread that handles the signal ? 14:48:11 that's what i could gather so far 14:48:51 apparently, doing (loop repeat 16 do (sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () (loop (incf *x*))))) in another SBCL causes the OS to send the signal to this thread 14:49:14 but when i do it manually, from within the instance, or from htop, nothing bad happens 14:51:45 maybe the kernel delivers the signal before the call to pthread_kill() returns 14:52:01 and being inside pthread_kill() somehow masks the problem 14:53:55 comparing the traces of signals between the good execution and the bad, indeed, in the good one, no signals are delivered to that thread 14:55:37 sending kill -CHLD to that thread does nothing good 14:55:59 maybe i need to send them to both threads 14:59:17 yay, success 15:00:06 how ? 15:00:15 sending it to both 15:00:19 pasting 15:01:00 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138880#3 15:01:41 the separate thread from which the signals are sent is not actually needed 15:04:07 davazp [~user@80.31.10.120] has joined #sbcl 15:07:43 this happens only with the thread created by wtimer, my own thread with a simple SLEEP is not perturbed 15:12:45 what's special about it, it interrupts the main thread 15:20:13 and here's the trace http://paste.lisp.org/display/138880#4 15:21:52 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:f867:b7b2:9e43:4ef2] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:23:35 nothing looks wrong, actually 15:24:47 i mean, except the end, where it thinks there's that thread is in the wrong state 15:27:35 the main thread interrupt doesn't matter, actually 15:30:17 "2 holders of phase 4 with me", but i see no place where this phase transition happens 15:43:25 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:37 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 15:49:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:33 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 16:07:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.205.145] has joined #sbcl 16:07:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.205.145] has quit [Changing host] 16:07:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 16:15:08 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:04 did we already know that (defclass foo (bar) ()) (defclass bar (foo) ()) hoses a running sbcl completely? 16:27:07 more finalization issues? 16:30:26 yes. I think I have a fix for the cpl-protocol-violation, but we need a cycle detector as well, clearly 16:33:42 eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has joined #sbcl 16:35:35 looks like just having the body of sigchld-handler be (sb-thread::with-system-mutex (sb-impl::*active-processes-lock*)) is enough to cause the trouble 16:37:48 (sb-sys:without-interrupts (sb-thread:with-mutex (*mutex*))) alternatively 16:39:58 gah wait I'm so confused 16:42:37 tell me about it 16:43:55 -!- kanru` [~kanru@193.214.41.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:44:28 stassats`: erh. we take a system mutex in an async interrupt handled? 16:44:34 *handler. 16:44:38 yes 16:45:17 everything seems to be well and sound until the gc is triggered 16:45:36 see http://paste.lisp.org/display/138880#3 and http://paste.lisp.org/display/138880#4 16:46:46 that's definitely strange, but might still be correct. 16:47:28 the timer thread sleeps on os_wait_for_wtimer 16:48:08 and when interrupting both threads with sigchld for some time, then calling for gc, gc things that timer thread is in the state it actually isn't 16:48:17 thinks 16:48:43 interrupting just one thread is fine, but not both at the same time 16:50:54 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-160-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:17 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 16:51:38 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-160-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 16:59:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:00:57 I don't get why we waitpid from inside a critical section. 17:04:34 ah. ABA issues with waitpid and run-program, I suppose. 17:05:55 looks like p->csp_around_foreign_call is garbled 17:08:49 maybe this scenario: a thread doing a C call, gets interrupted, calls a lisp function, this lisp function calls another C function, which causes csp_around_foreign_call to be zero, and when interrupt exits and returns to the C function, csp_around_foreign_call is 0, even though it's still a c function? 17:11:17 sounds plausible. But I don't see how that can happen with your minimal sigchld handler. 17:13:52 it's 0 alright, now, how does that happen, i don't see it either 17:16:08 (sleep 0.0000001) confirms this hypothesis 17:16:20 as the body of sigchld-handler 17:18:05 so, interrupt_handle_now should save it 17:20:41 ah 17:20:52 i think it did so, and i just broke it 17:20:59 sleep would be a recursive foreign call. 17:21:54 WITH_GC_AT_SAFEPOINTS_ONLY() is some fancy cpp macro, and when i moved it, it lost its magic 17:22:10 also aptly misnamed 17:22:15 looks like it saves csp_around_foreign_call 17:22:58 scymtym was right that this commit introduce it, and i didn't test for it properly 17:23:20 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:23:32 yep, adding { } around the code does it 17:30:19 *stassats`* always gets himself in more trouble 17:30:33 but i still blame the original authors for making code that is hard to follow 17:32:34 *scymtym* just noticed a pattern of test failures; didn't mean to imply that stassats` didn't test properly 17:32:50 scymtym: no, i didn't test your assertion that it was my commit properly 17:33:06 i see 17:33:07 i just moved things around, not truly reverted it 17:33:35 well, at least i learned some more about the dark corners of sb-safepoint, so, not a complete wasted of time 17:35:02 ok, now with this thing behind, the timer thread could use blocking of unnecessary signals, to improve timer precision 17:35:44 l_ [~l_@84.233.246.170] has joined #sbcl 17:35:52 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 17:36:29 scymtym: so, the build server thing of yours actually works 17:39:12 stassats`: well, on the one hand, it allows finding lots of bugs, on the other hand, there is a substantial amount of false positives and maintaining it is also a lot of work 17:39:33 scymtym: it catches more bugs before the release than users 17:39:42 ergo, we don't need users 17:39:49 for SBCL though, the ability to test multiple featuresets automatically probably outweighs the disadvantages 17:40:14 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has joined #sbcl 17:40:16 having users is nice, too :) 17:40:23 at least the build server doesn't complain about kittens 17:41:01 no, it instead complains about leaked file descriptors and such 17:42:15 (just to be clear: it is not my build server, but my employer kindly lets me use it for this purpose) 17:44:14 I agree that maintaining a jenkins is a lot of work 17:44:29 it can be /very/ useful if it gets buyin, though 17:44:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:01 -!- l_ [~l_@84.233.246.170] has left #sbcl 17:49:19 make-thread should have some way of specifying which signals to block 17:49:45 Krystof: are you/is your organization interested in CL bindings for Jenkins' REST API? 17:53:40 stassats`: or at least start a thread with interrupts disabled: one of the problems in lp 1038034 was relying on a thread with WITHOUT-INTERRUPTS in its thread function to return a value 17:55:02 there still can be an interrupt from the time it starts and calls the lisp initial function 17:55:09 stassats`: sounds right. 17:55:36 pkhuong: which part? 17:56:38 stassats`: make-thread with signal blocked. 17:56:44 ok 17:57:54 though, probably specifying arbitrary signals is harder, and different platforms have different set of signals needed by the runtime, so, maybe just :block-unnecessary-signals 17:58:10 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 17:59:29 lp 1038034 17:59:30 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1038034 18:06:26 -!- eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:11:05 eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has joined #sbcl 18:21:16 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:25:05 l_ [~l_@84.233.246.170] has joined #sbcl 18:25:59 -!- l_ [~l_@84.233.246.170] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:29:03 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 18:33:47 sdemarre [~serge@194.65-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #sbcl 18:53:08 -!- kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:52 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 18:56:55 kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #sbcl 19:19:52 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifetime lost by panic reaction] 19:30:14 -!- davazp [~user@80.31.10.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:34:45 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-xnbphvbtqfxhitkt] has joined #sbcl 19:46:20 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 19:53:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:12 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 20:00:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:12 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 20:08:34 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:08 ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has joined #sbcl 20:13:39 since it came up in #lisp: i get a lot of style-warnings about undefined aliens when starting sbcl from a saved image with cl-gtk2, http://paste.lisp.org/display/138898 20:14:01 given that the program works fine afterwards, what would be the correct way to prevent the warnings? 20:24:06 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 20:27:55 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-xnbphvbtqfxhitkt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:37:52 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:11 scymtym_ [~user@ip-5-147-120-181.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #sbcl 20:44:17 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:13 -!- sdemarre [~serge@194.65-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:00:51 ferada: the easiest way is to make sure gtk is loaded before the aliens are defined. 21:05:52 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #sbcl 21:06:30 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 21:08:18 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 21:19:02 pkhuong: so if i read this right, cffi (at least in my version here) uses load-shared-object without parameters, so dont-save is set; after loading from the image gtk is not automatically loaded (therefore the warnings), but instead via *init-hooks* 21:20:27 ferada: loading an image won't trigger style warnings. 21:20:41 You only get style warnings when alien routines or variables are declared. 21:22:26 oh wait. maybe, let me try to make sure. 21:23:24 it's something annoying, there's a list of unresolved symbols, and they get printed each time you load shared libraries or some other similar operations 21:25:20 I don't think sb-gmp does that, but it also has its own init-hook to load libgmp. 21:31:16 ITA has had that warning knocked out of the source for years. 21:31:27 I think stassats` is right, that it happens when you load multiple shared libraries. In which case, muffling that style warning around load-shared-object is probably best. 21:31:45 I never really investigated what it's *supposed* to do, just deleted it. :P 21:35:57 okay, thanks for the help 21:41:18 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c04b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:43 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:03:43 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 22:05:16 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 22:16:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 22:17:09 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 22:26:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:49 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.33] has joined #sbcl 22:36:41 huh, the sb-safepoint saga is not over 22:37:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138880#2 still drops into ldb 22:37:15 with "STOP_FOR_GC_PENDING, but why?" 22:44:53 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:51:45 -!- psilord [~pkeller@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:52:26 psilord [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 23:07:04 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 23:42:27 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-160-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:59 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:17:20 Krystof: i think the test added in 3641e3c7 can make the test harness choke if the test fails because the name of the test is a symbol in package CLOS-IMPURE (the problem manifests itself in https://ci.cor-lab.org/job/sbcl-master/130/featureset=1,label=ubuntu_quantal_64bit/console because i use a modified version of the test harness which reads information about failed /and successful/ tests; 00:17:20 https://ci.cor-lab.org/job/sbcl-master/featureset=1,label=ubuntu_quantal_64bit/ws/tests/test-status.lisp-expr/*view*/ contains the complete status output) 00:17:38 letting the test fail on purpose also demonstrates the problem 00:27:27 -!- tylergoza [~tylergoza@72.29.34.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:54:41 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 02:16:08 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 02:38:27 -!- christoph_debian [~christoph@188.174.192.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:44:27 -!- eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has quit [Quit: ^D] 02:52:19 christoph_debian [~christoph@ppp-88-217-82-192.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #sbcl 03:21:12 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:23:28 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:37:58 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 03:39:24 (constantp '(* 90 16)) => T bites me 03:40:39 i guess i can't rely on it to see whether i need to evaluate it or not 03:41:29 or i need to run eval on it first 03:43:31 sb-int:self-evaluating-p? 03:43:58 it's not a part of sbcl 03:44:16 copy/paste. 03:44:46 i know, but i think applying EVAL would be better 03:45:06 it's for performance reasons during macro expansion 03:45:13 constantp without constant-value is one of the things I don't really get about CL. Helps with separate compilation and host/target discrepancies, I guess. 03:45:27 i.e., avoiding to copy the tail of a &rest list 03:50:01 stack allocating a list and filling it would probably do a better job on sbcl 03:50:15 but not all implementations support stack allocation 04:01:18 oh, it's already dynamic-extent, but not allocating a tail still is an optimization 04:01:56 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 04:02:32 though, the slight problem that i can't use (constantp x env), since EVAL evaluates in the null-environment, but the environment may make the form to be non-constant 04:08:57 l_ [~l_@84.233.246.170] has joined #sbcl 04:09:59 stassats`: if it's constantp in the null env, it also is in any environment. 04:12:21 -!- l_ [~l_@84.233.246.170] has left #sbcl 04:17:24 thought about converting everything into &rest, but then it would be converted into lists from &more, since i need to treat them as lists 04:20:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:17 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 04:23:27 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 04:33:28 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 04:54:35 -!- scymtym_ [~user@ip-5-147-120-181.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:18:03 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:42:03 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #sbcl 05:56:38 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:01:10 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 06:07:18 -!- flip216 [~marek@217.196.73.213] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.219] has joined #sbcl 06:10:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.219] has quit [Changing host] 06:10:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 06:11:28 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #sbcl 06:11:28 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 06:11:28 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #sbcl 06:53:00 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:59:32 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #sbcl 07:28:12 kanru` [~kanru@193.214.41.96] has joined #sbcl 08:02:54 -!- kanru` [~kanru@193.214.41.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:20:11 scymtym: what's the criterion for test names? That they be readable in a clean sbcl image? 08:22:59 monokai [~monokai@217-67-201-252.itsa.net.pl] has joined #sbcl 08:28:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:29:57 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 08:48:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50:41 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 09:02:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:06:52 -!- monokai [~monokai@217-67-201-252.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:56 kanru` [~kanru@193.160.199.1] has joined #sbcl 09:09:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.101] has joined #sbcl 09:09:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.101] has quit [Changing host] 09:09:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 09:19:37 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 09:21:20 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:23:38 -!- kanru` [~kanru@193.160.199.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:29:08 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 09:30:11 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:32:38 -!- kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:32:52 kanru` [~kanru@193.214.41.96] has joined #sbcl 09:35:22 kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #sbcl 10:04:07 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:17:26 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:49 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 10:40:49 -!- kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:41:47 kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #sbcl 10:58:07 -!- kanru` [~kanru@193.214.41.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:04:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:05:31 kanru` [~kanru@193.214.41.96] has joined #sbcl 11:13:14 -!- milosn [~milosn@cable-178-149-0-183.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:19:23 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 11:22:14 milosn [~milosn@cable-178-149-0-183.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #sbcl 11:37:09 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:45:22 ASau` [~user@p5797E702.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 11:49:07 -!- ASau [~user@p5797FD11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:51:28 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:6cf0:7407:7c6b:9851] has joined #sbcl 11:53:55 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 11:57:10 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-160-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 12:08:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:12 Krystof: i guess so: when a test fails, its name appears in test-status.lisp-expr which is read by the test harness 12:10:24 package locks may be another issue 12:11:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.101] has joined #sbcl 12:11:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.101] has quit [Changing host] 12:11:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 12:14:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 12:14:14 Krystof: it is not only for continuous integration: the vanilla test harness fails to read test results and report results as well 12:26:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:27:30 -!- milosn [~milosn@cable-178-149-0-183.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:31:43 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:6cf0:7407:7c6b:9851] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 12:36:10 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.26.91] has joined #sbcl 12:36:10 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.26.91] has quit [Changing host] 12:36:10 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 12:38:37 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:17:37 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 13:20:33 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 13:25:05 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:47:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:50 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:52:24 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #sbcl 14:02:22 scymtym: ok, good 14:02:37 and does it cause you any pain if I rename a whole heap of tests? 14:03:49 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:05:02 stassats`: I didn't really understand your point about constantp yesterday, at least in sbcl -- don't we have constant-form-value? 14:07:45 Krystof: !sbcl code. 14:09:07 Krystof: i don't expect any problems 14:11:16 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:07 scymtym: good, then enjoy the commit which I prepared earlier :) 14:13:13 pkhuong: ok, fair enough 14:14:04 Krystof: it was for optimizing (let ((args (list* non-const const non-const '(const const const)))) (declare (dynamic-extent args)) ...) 14:14:22 though, i suppose that can lead to poor locality of the list 14:15:24 sbcl can be smart about dynamic-extent and constant args, but not so much about other implementations 14:50:12 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:03 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 14:53:24 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 15:02:47 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:03:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:13 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #sbcl 15:03:25 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f240:f43b:c24b:904b:a216] has joined #sbcl 15:05:33 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:14 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-zwhsuqfqiiwvreeo] has joined #sbcl 15:19:43 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 15:21:49 tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has joined #sbcl 15:21:49 -!- tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:21:57 tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has joined #sbcl 15:23:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:55 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #sbcl 06:23:55 06:23:55 -!- names: ccl-logbot asedeno_ attila_lendvai scymtym_ Posterdati minion angavrilov loke echo-area christoph_debian easye pranavrc prxq__ milosn Vivitron cmack ehaliewicz reb`` gko foom nicdev` ASau psilord DeadTrickster ferada ivan`` antoszka luis` flip214 redline6561 pkhuong Subfusc Blkt antifuchs kanru fe[nl]ix pchrist abarch` specbot pegu brucem |3b| jdz Quadrescence danlentz fikusz @Krystof daimrod jsnell_ bege 06:24:10 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:24:35 -!- christoph_debian [~christoph@ppp-88-217-85-203.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:25:15 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #sbcl 06:25:16 xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #sbcl 06:25:19 kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #sbcl 06:25:57 christoph_debian [~christoph@ppp-88-217-85-203.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #sbcl 06:30:35 -!- xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 06:32:15 xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #sbcl 06:33:46 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 06:38:19 -!- xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:39:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:39:45 xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #sbcl 06:46:38 -!- xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:53:08 xymox [lechuck@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #sbcl 06:53:26 -!- xymox [lechuck@s0.barwen.ch] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:54:23 xymox [lechuck@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #sbcl 06:54:44 -!- xymox [lechuck@s0.barwen.ch] has quit [Changing host] 06:54:44 xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #sbcl 06:55:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:00:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.74.87] has joined #sbcl 07:00:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.74.87] has quit [Changing host] 07:00:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 08:07:17 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:39:26 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 08:40:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.65.131] has joined #sbcl 08:41:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.65.131] has quit [Changing host] 08:41:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 08:58:51 ; 1EA: 4881F2E204A234 XOR RDX, 883033314 ; 1/13356 samples 08:58:52 ; 1F1: 48C1F805 SAR RAX, 5 ; 1/13357 samples 08:58:52 ; 1F5: 4883E0FE AND RAX, -2 ; 1/13358 samples 08:58:52 ; 1F9: 4831C2 XOR RDX, RAX ; 1/13358 samples 08:58:57 how many samples, exactly? 08:59:08 maybe I should stop profiling 09:29:00 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:bcde:1607:7245:2e0f] has joined #sbcl 09:31:15 -!- kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:36:43 kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #sbcl 09:42:55 I am inclined to believe that the observed slowdown from the new sxhash is actually due to our hash table implementation, or rather som 09:43:06 some interaction between the new hash values and the hash table implementation 09:43:29 the majority of the time in the test code is spent in gethash and puthash, not in sxhash 09:44:18 (I'm slightly at a loss to explain why, though) 09:46:07 what's the test code like? 09:47:29 http://paste.lisp.org/display/139003#1 09:47:45 and I mean the majority of the extra time 09:48:10 that is, changing the sb-int:mix function to give a better distribution leads to worse hash table performance 09:48:48 does that list shuffle really work properly? 09:49:03 no 09:49:35 ok, yes, before making any grand claims I should fix that 09:49:38 I assume it's there to eliminate any accidental benefit a bad hash function would get from a linear access pattern? 09:50:24 yes 09:50:25 in which case why not just generate random numbers in the first place 09:50:45 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 09:51:05 with a lovely serialized random-state for maximum fairness ;-) 09:52:26 well, because small fixnums are probably more often present in code, and the point of this was to produce a sxhash which doesn't collide so much on conses of small fixnums 09:52:40 I dunno, maybe I'm measuring the wrong thing 09:52:59 well, random mod whatever is small 09:53:07 half an hour between meeting a lawyer and meeting a bureaucrat isn't the best time for thinking 09:53:23 Will try to think in my next meeting 09:56:26 with 1024^2 randomly generated conses of (cons (random 1024) (random 1024)), the test code with new sxhash is still substantially slower 09:57:11 0.404025 seconds of total run time (0.304019 user, 0.100006 system) vs 0.160011 seconds of total run time (0.152010 user, 0.008001 system) 09:58:03 maybe this is expected 09:58:48 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:58:52 the non-colliding hash values will cause more of the hash table to be filled (more collisions) by some birthday argument 09:59:02 ok, next meeting 09:59:28 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:bcde:1607:7245:2e0f] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:08 have we switched hash table implementation to separate chaining? 10:02:11 I could swear we were open addressing, and there a hash collision will take exactly the same amount of space as a non-collision 10:11:18 no, probably not 10:11:23 in which case I am more mystified 10:15:48 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:24 I guess cache effects are still a plausible explanation if the old algorithm "clumps" the results more 10:26:16 so not an ordering issue, but a working set size one. it's a bit of a stretch, but that is a very roomy hash-table... 10:36:48 alex_white [~alex@213.232.243.233] has joined #sbcl 10:56:15 could be. Certainly there's no difference in timing when all entries collied 10:56:24 collide, damnit 11:05:25 all entries collide? how did you manage that? 11:17:25 by having one million of the same conses 11:21:23 ok, I wouldn't call that colliding. that's just a hashtable with one element 11:25:22 but just using a more realistic occupancy ratio (50%? 70%?) could be a decent test of this theory 11:40:58 eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has joined #sbcl 11:45:44 ASau` [~user@p4FF97EC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 11:48:38 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F31C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:43 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 12:17:58 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 12:20:23 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 12:25:38 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 12:27:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:29:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:39 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:33:39 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 13:36:37 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 13:56:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:56:42 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-46-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 14:08:43 tylergoza [~tylergoza@72.29.34.246] has joined #sbcl 14:17:52 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:14 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:18:28 jsnell_: we're still chaining with linked lists represented as a triplet of vectors. 14:19:59 I tried to move to open addressing, but I hit similar issues with interactions between hashing and the hash table implementation. 14:21:19 When the keys were random, open addressing worked, but I found it impossible to beat the current pairing of sxhash and hash table for small integers. 14:24:50 A big problem I/we at ITA have is the excessive memory usage of the builtin hashtable impl. 14:25:40 We now use our own "userspace" open-addressing hashtable impl for most everything. 14:25:47 (With its own hash function, too) 14:26:24 of course that doesn't handle eq hashing, so it avoids some of the complexity. 14:33:09 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:34:50 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:21 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #sbcl 14:43:26 ok. So if I make sxhash and hashtable much worse for small integers, pkhuong will suddenly be able to beat it 14:43:57 :p 14:51:13 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.121.68] has joined #sbcl 14:51:13 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.121.68] has quit [Changing host] 14:51:13 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 14:54:43 -!- eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has quit [Quit: ^D] 14:59:50 -!- psilord [~psilord@dyn-72-33-151-67.uwnet.wisc.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:02:43 no but ha ha only serious 15:02:43 psilord [~psilord@dyn-72-33-151-67.uwnet.wisc.edu] has joined #sbcl 15:03:29 we agree that new MIX is in principle better than old MIX, right? 15:03:40 I think so. 15:03:46 Or it's undocumented genius. 15:04:09 and the fact that the measured slowdown is in GETHASH/PUTHASH rather than in SXHASH suggests that the extra multiply isn't expensive 15:04:17 right. 15:04:25 what's MIX ? 15:04:37 so since no-one likes our hash tables anyway, if I make them actively worse that will increase the incentive to rewrite them 15:04:58 (actively worse on cons pairs of small integers, which is probably not the limiting factor) 15:04:58 fe[nl]ix: the function we use everywhere to mix two hash values and get a third one. 15:06:30 fe[nl]ix: it would likely be smarter to use something like a block hash that is faster at hashing large vectors and has more intermediate state, but it's what we have. 15:06:48 -!- psilord [~psilord@dyn-72-33-151-67.uwnet.wisc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:07:28 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #sbcl 15:09:44 -!- alex_white [~alex@213.232.243.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:24:50 well, one thing about 3 is that it is generator for a subgroup of 2^k 15:25:08 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:25:45 so the multiplication by 3 mod 2^29 has period 2^27 15:27:37 I guess one test would be to define a custom hash function that happens to be extremely good (precomputed random values), and see if our current hash tables suffer, compared to sxhash. 15:38:24 -!- scymtym_ [~user@2001:638:504:2093:baca:3aff:fe83:e736] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:39 scymtym_ [~user@2001:638:504:2093:baca:3aff:fe83:e736] has joined #sbcl 15:43:33 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:40 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 15:51:58 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yhaublhxizkxcfdc] has joined #sbcl 15:52:01 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 15:53:53 I've got a question on types. 15:54:04 "Value of 0 in [very long expression] is 0, not a FLOAT." 15:54:35 Do I really need to coerce it violently to get it as float? 15:54:48 what's the (relevant part of the) expression? 15:55:04 the integer 0 is not the same as the single-float 0.0f0 or the double-float 0.0d0 15:57:44 This part is clear. 15:58:10 It is unclear why "0.0" didn't work even though type-of reports single-float. 15:58:35 And the question about lack of automatic coersions stays. 15:58:37 I think you need to provide more detail if we are to help you 15:58:41 Are they really forbidden? 15:58:46 again, what's the expression 16:00:38 the only coercions that happen implicitly in CL are those related to designators (e.g. "string designator", "designator for a list of symbols") 16:00:50 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yhaublhxizkxcfdc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:01:00 well there's stuff like (+ 4 6.3) working 16:01:24 I knew as I wrote it that I was going to be proved wrong 16:01:29 Bike: addition works on numbers, not floats ;) 16:01:35 yeah, yeah 16:01:37 in arithmetic, there are contagion rules 16:02:08 wonder if anyone's ever written an "add integer to float" algorithm 16:02:13 (woot, proof-of-concept restarts accepting arguments in slime) 16:05:36 Alright, I guess that I have to coerce ~everything to float then. 16:06:08 Otherwise it's going to break L_inf norm from time to time. 16:07:23 well, if you declare a variale to be of type floats, you have to stuff floats in it. 16:07:35 not that there's much value to the "float" type. 16:08:08 "double-float" has a bit different range that would make it harder to debug. 16:09:05 if you think you need to use the FLOAT type, you're probably better off not declaring any type, or going for REAL. 16:11:59 "Not declaring" causes calculations in integer fractions. 16:12:06 And they become very slow very fast. 16:13:47 Thus, I don't actually want REAL. 16:14:13 float doesn't make things any faster. 16:14:43 you seem confused... like, (let ((x (/ 4 7))) (declare (float x)) ...) doesn't make x a float 16:14:45 and declaring types will never make a computation not use rational arithmetic. 16:15:35 type declarations just tell the compiler that so and so variable is so and so type, they don't have a coercing semantic effect 16:16:24 Hm. 16:16:32 Alright, I see. 16:16:48 scymtym [~user@8.75-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #sbcl 16:17:31 You mean that these are just optimization hints that also work as assertions (sometimes). 16:17:44 pretty much. 16:17:46 (E.g. CLISP seems to ignore them.) 16:18:23 yeah, the way it's defined is, if you declare something and then the declaration is wrong (e.g. my example there) the effects are undefined 16:18:48 also, pkhuong's advice earlier was more like "use single-float or double-float, not float" rather than "just use real all the time", i don't know if you got that 16:20:15 Yeah, I got that. 16:20:41 I've never needed that part of language before yesterday. 16:22:46 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jjzgaeexkqthqccc] has joined #sbcl 16:26:03 The last thing I need is to find a way to get infinite numbers. 16:26:15 Affine infinity is enough. 16:26:45 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:41:42 And this part seems to be impossible without major effort. 16:41:57 Alright, I'll do it differently then. 17:28:12 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.65.131] has joined #sbcl 18:03:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.65.131] has quit [Changing host] 18:03:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 18:18:27 andreh [~andreh@177.133.55.216] has joined #sbcl 18:29:14 -!- andreh [~andreh@177.133.55.216] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 18:30:36 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 18:43:11 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 18:44:38 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 18:46:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:51:18 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.4] 18:58:43 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has joined #sbcl 19:09:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.65.131] has joined #sbcl 19:09:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.65.131] has quit [Changing host] 19:09:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 19:24:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:36:22 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat97.it.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 19:50:10 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 20:02:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:27 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 20:11:36 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 20:37:26 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jjzgaeexkqthqccc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:01:18 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:34 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 21:13:09 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:03 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 21:30:18 andreh [~andreh@177.133.55.216] has joined #sbcl 21:32:06 -!- andreh [~andreh@177.133.55.216] has quit [Client Quit] 21:33:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:41:24 -!- prxq__ [~mommer@mnhm-590c2be3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:30 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 21:43:54 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat97.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:45:38 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has joined #sbcl 22:01:56 -!- tylergoza [~tylergoza@72.29.34.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:10:35 -!- jsnell_ [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:29 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #sbcl 22:11:31 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has joined #sbcl 22:26:09 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:14 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #sbcl 22:42:40 -!- reb`` [user@nat/google/x-ktleldpzxepwgddb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:12 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:43:39 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: memory access closed because no future expected] 22:51:43 brown [user@nat/google/x-xpokrszdylqtzwhk] has joined #sbcl 22:52:07 -!- brown is now known as Guest84109 23:03:13 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.86.38] has joined #sbcl 23:17:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.86.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:08 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 23:32:15 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:40:01 pkhuong: Are you online - do you have a moment for a few questions? 23:40:36 what kind of questions? 23:41:57 I was going to ask some more questions about propagating source information metadata through macro transformations. 23:43:13 ok, i haven't actually dealt with it 23:43:26 I took what I thought I understood about pkhuong's suggestion to use a weak hash table to map lists generated by the reader to source code records (file name, line number, column, file-pos) and ran with it. 23:44:49 and how to deal with generated things? 23:45:10 I wanted to ask what SBCL does when when backquote processing and macros convert code into other code - what does SBCL do to propagate source code metadata from the source being transformed and the macros doing the transformations 23:45:13 like (intern (format nil "~a-suffix" name)) 23:45:14 Yes, exactly. 23:46:04 sbcl deals quite poorly with M-. when wrapped in some macros 23:46:50 and with frame source information 23:49:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:06:52 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has joined #sbcl 00:44:27 drmeister: it doesn't. 00:45:20 pkhuong: What doesn't? 00:45:58 SBCL doesn't carry metadata through backquote transformations? 00:47:28 Or "it (what I said) doesn't make a lick of sense" 00:48:26 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:49:48 Based on what you told me I ripped out my SOURCE-CODE-CONS, which were subclassed from CONS and stored source information and created a weak map that maps CONS cells created by the reader to their source locations when they are read. 00:50:03 This seems like a much more elegant way of representing source code metadata. 08:48:32 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #sbcl 08:48:32 08:48:32 -!- names: ccl-logbot attila_lendvai prxq edgar-rft ASau` christoph_debian echo-area Bike kludge` Kromitvs pchrist angavrilov redline6561 joshe milosn antoszka Quadrescence psilord reb daimrod gensym easye danlentz minion jsnell scymtym_ nicdev xymox bege asedeno_ Posterdati loke gko foom ferada ivan`` luis` flip214 @Krystof fikusz jdz |3b| brucem pegu specbot abarch` Subfusc pkhuong Blkt antifuchs kanru fe[nl]ix 09:02:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:26:05 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.173.210] has joined #sbcl 09:26:05 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.173.210] has quit [Changing host] 09:26:05 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 09:35:28 -!- kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:40:49 kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #sbcl 09:46:58 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 10:17:08 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f243:b920:7a6d:be39:2679] has joined #sbcl 10:19:30 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.110.162] has joined #sbcl 10:22:29 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:25 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f243:b920:7a6d:be39:2679] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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seconds] 19:59:06 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #sbcl 20:14:25 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 20:24:21 -!- gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has left #sbcl 20:25:41 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.110.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:31:34 Does anyone know how to start up an SBCL swank server from the command line? sbcl --load swank-backend.lisp loads it but I don't know the function that starts it up. 20:35:12 Found it: sbcl --load start-swank.lisp 21:54:40 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:58:11 when writing code for SBCL, i regularly wonder about a few coding style aspects which are not currently covered by the documentation. i have collected a list of these aspects. what is the best way to discuss them and extend the documentation? 22:02:27 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:09 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 22:28:37 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f693e2.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:20 prxq [~mommer@x2f6930e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #sbcl 23:30:06 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-124-231.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:03 scymtym: the Coding Style section in HACKING? 23:58:29 pkhuong: yes, that's where i would add most of it 23:58:38 maybe also PRINCIPLES 23:59:14 there currently seems to be some overlap between the two 23:59:18 Patch on LP, and a heads-up to the development mailing list, I guess. 00:00:15 would a potential discussion take place in LP comments, then? 00:01:40 i mostly collected questions, the answers to which could go into the Coding Style section 00:02:28 if you mostly have questions, the development mailing list will probably have the best reach and least obstacle to discussion. 00:03:46 ok, thanks 00:07:25 LiamH 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closed the connection] 12:58:20 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 12:58:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:09 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 13:52:32 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.29] has joined #sbcl 14:02:51 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:52 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:51a:b567:f220:1ca7] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:07:16 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:51a:b567:f220:1ca7] has joined #sbcl 14:08:31 re Eric's report: just mark adjoin and its support function as now foldable, and we'll see about strength reducing them later? 14:18:00 s/now/not/ :-) 14:18:01 yes 14:18:45 I was also going to ask about the (typecase x ((unsigned-byte 32) ...)) issue 14:18:51 erh yes (: 14:19:05 have I missed a fix for that? 14:19:20 or do I have to again say "sorry" in my -announce mail? :) 14:19:52 no fix yet. 14:20:06 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 14:20:31 ok 14:20:44 maybe I'll stop promising it in the next development cycle, then :) 14:24:24 well, in theory there is a fix. In practice, there are more pressing deadlines. 14:24:52 finishing your PhD is overrated 14:25:21 (students have arrived here as of today; the madness begins once more) 14:26:01 Lucky you. Our horde invades around the first week of September. 14:38:09 Krystof: the end of the year seems like a decent deadline for me. If it's not fixed by then, maybe we should consider reverting the typep-mod changes. 14:39:31 Thanks. 14:40:00 (is the issue documented anywhere?) 14:42:40 I don't think it is. 14:43:16 -!- abarch` [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21d:9ff:fe30:1f87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:48 ok, if it's possible to do a minibraindump before next week that would be most appreciated. 14:46:36 even just logging a lp bug would be fine 14:51:06 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 14:59:26 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:36 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 15:21:07 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #sbcl 15:38:35 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:51a:b567:f220:1ca7] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:40:21 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:51a:b567:f220:1ca7] has joined #sbcl 15:41:31 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:37 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 16:02:17 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 16:11:05 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 16:12:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:15:12 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:46 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 16:50:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 16:55:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:55:33 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57:53 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #sbcl 17:02:38 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:49 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 17:03:36 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #sbcl 17:03:39 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has joined #sbcl 17:06:46 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 17:09:56 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.134.93] has left #sbcl 17:11:03 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:17:32 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:51a:b567:f220:1ca7] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 17:19:59 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:51a:b567:f220:1ca7] has joined #sbcl 17:23:08 pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 17:29:43 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:42 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #sbcl 17:58:41 -!- pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:04:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:06:37 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #sbcl 18:07:23 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has joined #sbcl 18:19:42 lp#1229340 18:19:44 lp 1229340 18:19:44 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1229340 18:21:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:39:08 thank you! 18:39:50 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 18:44:12 so. SBCL and SteamOS ---- I stand ready to assist you! 18:52:18 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:54:41 dto: so, regular linux + decent hardware support? I'm guessing most of the work will in writing bindings. 18:55:29 pkhuong: i think so. hopefully i'll be able to help out in that regard. 18:55:52 from what i heard it'll support SDL and OpenGL natively, which is great 18:56:31 my one reservation is, it'll suck if they don't allow sideloading 18:59:42 it'll take time for the dust to settle and the rest of the announcements to come out 18:59:47 i'm "cautiously optimistic" 19:00:26 it looks like they'll have cloud savegames / preferences , which would prob need bindings. 19:04:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:06:41 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:51a:b567:f220:1ca7] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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#sbcl 13:06:35 echo-area [~user@123.120.237.147] has joined #sbcl 13:15:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:15 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-147.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:55:35 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-208-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:44 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #sbcl 13:56:44 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 13:56:44 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-208-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 14:03:50 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-195-14-221-42.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 14:09:08 If I'm looking at a line in the allocation profiler like: 991 99.1 (LAMBDA (BAR) :IN "/home/redline/foo.lisp") [29] 14:09:24 What does 29 represent? I know this is a lambda in an array but I'm not sure which one and doubt it's an index. 14:10:55 it's a source location. I think there's a slime contrib that can map those back to the source, although it might be very, very coarse (like the top-level form). 14:11:24 Switching to named-lambda (or a portable FLET macro) may be more informative. 14:12:29 Got it. Thanks. 14:15:26 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 14:45:34 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #sbcl 14:45:36 Hello. 14:46:23 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.237.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:29 echo-are` [~user@123.120.237.147] has joined #sbcl 14:46:53 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #sbcl 14:53:19 -!- eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has quit [Quit: ^D] 14:55:02 http://paste.lisp.org/display/139144 14:55:11 Is this backtrace correct? There are no locals. 14:55:19 But there sholud be. 14:55:23 should* 14:56:04 First I tried with Gentoo's SBCL, now I have compiled it from source by hand. 14:56:09 Effects are still equal. 14:59:30 There's something off with the debugger's frame introspection. 14:59:57 Probably won't get fixed while we're in freeze. In the meantime, you can use the arguments to BREAK to print and inspect values you're interested in. 15:01:04 But it works correctly for my friend. 15:01:06 My version is: 15:01:13 SBCL 1.1.11.54-19d37e3 15:01:53 SBCL 1.1.11.54-19d37e3-dirty  this is my friend's one. 15:02:39 104008 | mrSpec | 2: (x "" "") 15:02:39 104008 | mrSpec | Locals: 15:02:39 104008 | mrSpec | ble = ala 15:02:44 What is this dirty? 15:03:56 "dirty" means he made local modifications 15:04:04 Hm. 15:04:31 He's offline now :( 15:06:09 Can you try to reproduce this? 15:09:48 otwieracz: that is clearly not the same function. 15:10:00 pkhuong: hm? 15:10:48 2: (x "" ""). It's called with arguments and is two frames down the stack. 15:12:07 That's what he pasted to me: 15:12:08 103958 | mrSpec | (defun x () (let ((ble 'ala)) 15:12:09 103958 | mrSpec | (break) 15:12:09 103958 | mrSpec | (print ble))) 15:12:09 104000 | mrSpec | (x) 15:12:11 104008 | mrSpec | 2: (x "" "") 15:12:14 104008 | mrSpec | Locals: 15:12:16 104008 | mrSpec | ble = ala 15:14:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 15:15:08 are you calling stuff the same way? 15:15:55 I think. 15:16:04 I will try one more hing. 15:16:06 thing 15:16:14 e.g. is he calling (x) from the slime REPL while you're loading a fasl? 15:16:58 I have no idea what I can do different than he. 15:17:00 I have a vague recollection that the debug info wouldn't get set up correctly until the fasl loading finishes 15:17:26 I've tried to type to repl, compile whole buffer, compile line. 15:17:35 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:45 and you're on the same platform? 15:18:01 Probably. 15:19:12 I have a suspicion mrSpec might be in x86 (32bit), but we'd have to verify that. 15:19:26 BTW, same results as with otwieracz for me. 15:28:32 git diff: 15:28:33 172732 | mrSpec | diff --git a/install.sh b/install.sh 15:28:33 172733 | mrSpec | old mode 100644 15:28:33 172733 | mrSpec | new mode 100755 15:29:40 172919 | mrSpec | debian 15:29:40 172929 | mrSpec | spec@pc:~$ uname -a 15:29:40 172929 | mrSpec | Linux pc 3.10-2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.10.7-1 (2013-08-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux 15:46:16 174406 | mrSpec | (defun x () 15:46:16 174406 | mrSpec | (declare (optimize (safety 3) (speed 0) (debug 3))) 15:46:16 174406 | mrSpec | (let ((ble 'ala)) 15:46:16 174406 | mrSpec | (setf ble 5) 15:46:16 174406 | mrSpec | (break) 15:46:18 174408 | mrSpec | (print ble))) 15:46:21 This one works. 15:47:00 otwieracz: yes. constant propagation breaks introspection here. 16:18:41 kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-196-217-211.netcologne.de] 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#sbcl 23:54:03 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #sbcl 23:54:03 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #sbcl 23:54:03 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #sbcl 00:15:18 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 00:16:06 how does sbcl solve the Funargs problem? 00:17:02 How does the compiler decide what goes on the heap and what can be passed on the stack? 00:18:51 with the user's dynamic-extent declarations. 00:19:23 and trivial stuff like no local function being ever used in a value position. 00:20:39 im sorry I dont understand that last part. do you mean no local function is returned as a value? 00:21:32 like having (flet ((foo ...)) (something ... #'foo ...)) since that might require a call 00:21:35 ever used as a value. 00:21:47 instead of just (flet ((foo ...)) (foo ...)) where you don't need a closure 00:22:58 i see 00:27:22 crap! this problem is so frustrating for me. 00:40:09 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:21 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 00:40:40 ill come back some other time when ive got more time to tackle this. p 01:01:29 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6be40.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #sbcl 01:04:46 -!- prxq__ [~mommer@x2f6b57e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:03 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:06:20 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:18 Bike_ [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 02:11:26 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:37:57 -!- asedeno_ [~asedeno@66.102.14.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:38:43 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.47.111] has joined #sbcl 02:38:44 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.47.111] has quit [Changing host] 02:38:44 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 02:38:46 -!- christoph_debian [~christoph@ppp-188-174-155-183.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:38:54 asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has joined #sbcl 02:52:29 christoph_debian [~christoph@ppp-188-174-61-122.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #sbcl 02:55:51 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-196-217-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:50:45 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:00:44 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #sbcl 04:09:26 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192.0.131.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:44 sbcl use threads by default on osx? having blocking behavior in the repl with hunchentoot. 04:12:26 I don't think they get compiled by default when you build from source. 04:18:26 thanks 04:19:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.21.253] has joined #sbcl 04:19:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.21.253] has quit [Changing host] 04:19:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 04:19:36 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 04:22:04 jaimef: Just add the flag --fancy when you build it and threads will be supported. 04:22:34 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #sbcl 04:23:00 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #sbcl 04:27:57 loke thanks 04:52:16 ASau` [~user@p5797EF0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 04:55:54 -!- ASau [~user@p5797E9BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:00:53 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #sbcl 05:03:17 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.110.162] has joined #sbcl 05:13:41 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #sbcl 05:34:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.110.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:30 -!- scymtym [~user@ip-5-147-115-29.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:30:28 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifetime disappeared into permanent bleeding] 06:40:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:16:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:57:50 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 09:02:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.156] has joined #sbcl 09:02:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.156] has quit [Changing host] 09:02:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 09:18:46 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-196-210-150.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 09:31:27 -!- kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:37:13 kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #sbcl 09:56:41 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 09:59:49 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 10:40:50 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:54 milanj [~milanj@109-92-105-103.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #sbcl 11:51:30 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-208-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:18 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-208-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 12:30:22 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 12:47:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:21:01 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #sbcl 14:01:00 tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has joined #sbcl 14:04:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 14:14:31 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:55 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af50a8c.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #sbcl 14:19:06 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af50318.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:26:43 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af50a8c.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:30:50 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50aad.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #sbcl 14:57:16 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-208-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:19 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-208-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 15:15:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:24 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:42 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.205] has joined #sbcl 15:29:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.205] has quit [Changing host] 15:29:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 15:34:13 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 15:34:24 davazp [~user@92.251.190.170.threembb.ie] has joined #sbcl 15:52:38 -!- milanj [~milanj@109-92-105-103.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:10:21 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 16:27:25 milanj [~milanj@109-92-105-103.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #sbcl 16:29:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:15 mk2 [~user@194.94.33.209] has joined #sbcl 16:40:46 I would like to run sbcl on an openwrt router with a MIPS cpu. Is it possible to cross-compile on x86_64 with a mips target? 16:44:11 there is a MIPS port. 16:44:17 mk2: never tried, but sbcl.org lists prebuilt binaries for MIPS (big endian and little endian) 16:44:18 I don't know if it still works. 16:44:33 but in general, SBCL doesn't do cross-compilation. 16:44:46 apart from the bootstrap, anyway. 16:44:46 I tried both MIPS binaries. They don't work. 16:45:42 pkhuong: with bootstrap, do you mean i could compile it on the device? 16:46:02 that would be fine as well 16:46:28 part on the a host with a working common lisp (usually SBCL itself), and part on the device. 16:47:14 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 16:47:26 if you look at make.sh, you'll find that it calls some shell scripts. Those make-target-*.sh must run on the target (the mips device). You'll definitely want something like NFS shares between the host and the target though. 16:47:28 i just tried cross-compiling clisp, but it cannot generate MIPS mem files on my notebook. therefore, i thought i might try to compile sbcl. 16:47:54 mk2: I don't think any image-based CL supports straight cross-compilation. ECL might work. 16:48:09 pkhuong: okay, thanks. that seems quite complicated. 16:49:16 pkhuong: i don't like ecl very much. when i tried it on an android device it was very slow and I believe it also needs a c compiler. 16:49:28 sure, on your cross-compilation host. 16:51:16 ah, I remembered that it would compile every function with the c compiler but apparently it has an interpreter. that's nice i will try ecl, now. 16:53:19 on another note a while ago I posted a bug on http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=CAOPVQm_GC--k80dVGyh5WQ8absPODPPVLTJYOo7ZXQi_dCiXJQ%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=sbcl-bugs , but this list seems to be quite unused. 16:53:53 I observed that I can never allocate more than 1024Mb of heap memory. 16:55:02 <|3b|> -- instead of - ? 16:55:12 I tracked this down to ./src/compiler/x86-64/parms.lisp where I added an additional parameter to gencgc-space-setup. 16:56:46 |3b|: If the link doesn't work, it's the second youngest mail on http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=sbcl-bugs 16:57:46 I was wondering if I was doing something wrong, because I couldn't believe that no one ever wanted to use more than 1Gb of memory. 16:57:48 <|3b|> yeah, link worked, was suggesting you wanted --dynamic-space-size rather than -dynamic-space-size 16:58:38 *|3b|* uses 8gb heap, but i set that at build time by passing --dynamic-space-size=8Gb to make.sh 17:00:24 |3b|: Hmm, unfortunately I have to search an unmodified SBCL, to try again. I'm quite sure that this is not the error, because in my first tests I modified the C file that handles the command line parsing. 17:01:21 <|3b|> yeah, not having any luck changing it at runtime, so does seem to be something wrong 17:01:37 mk2: I'm certain that -dynamic-space-size isn't what you want. 17:03:23 *|3b|* notes that the web version of the apparently manual uses "en-dash" at the beginning of that argument 17:03:30 pkhuong: No? I was trying allocate huge float arrays and this change seems to have helped. 17:03:50 kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-196-211-149.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 17:04:20 |3b|: --dynamic-space-size 16Gb wfm. 17:04:27 note the lack of equal sign. 17:04:36 -!- milanj [~milanj@109-92-105-103.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:06:31 <|3b|> pkhuong: ah, guess i missed that particular combination 17:07:03 <|3b|> pkhuong: is the test in that email valid? (/ (- sb-vm:dynamic-space-end sb-vm:dynamic-space-start) (expt 1024 2)) 17:07:53 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-196-210-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:08:03 |3b|: As a test I also observed the bars in xosview. 17:08:38 <|3b|> mk2: what pkhuong suggested works for me too as far as i can tell 17:09:34 |3b|: no. (sb-ext:dynamic-space-size) returns the actual size. 17:09:39 these constants are just default values. 17:09:54 If I call an unmodified version of sbcl with --dynamic-space-size 3Gb, the expression returns 1024, not three times this much. 17:10:13 <|3b|> right, but that isn't telling you how much heap it allocated 17:10:30 <|3b|> try looking at VIRT in top 17:10:40 or calling (sb-ext:dynamic-space-size) 17:12:42 |3b|: make.sh needs an equal sign, and the runtime doesn't (like all the other flags don't). That's certainly a suboptimality, and warning on that might be a good idea. 17:17:48 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 17:18:05 had a large lag again, my messages may have come out of sync 17:18:07 Okay I tested it, there is no bug, it works fine. 17:18:32 i was saying, DYNAMIC_SPACE_END is used in is_valid_lisp_addr, which is used only in debugging code, except for windows, where it's used in handle_access_violation 17:20:19 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:20:46 and there's that strange win32 build failure 17:21:12 Yeah, that looks plausible. 17:21:55 *stassats`* goes to fetch a windows machine 17:32:02 well, of course, that definition of is_valid_lisp_addr is in linux-os.c 17:32:23 win32-os.c has in_range_p(addr, DYNAMIC_SPACE_START , dynamic_space_size) || 17:33:21 sun-os.c win32-os.c and bsd-os.c all have they definitions of in_range_p 17:34:42 got the build failure alright 17:40:51 and it's unclear why is_valid_lisp_addr should be os-specific 17:42:41 is_linkage_table_addr is defined as in_range_p(addr, LINKAGE_TABLE_SPACE_START, LINKAGE_TABLE_SPACE_END), even though the last arg should be the length, not the end 17:58:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.205] has joined #sbcl 17:58:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.205] has quit [Changing host] 17:58:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 18:01:27 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:05:26 could the stack layout on win32 be different, so that copy-more-arg changes break it? 18:05:41 *stassats`* waits for the bisection to finish 18:06:27 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #sbcl 18:07:55 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:15:25 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:15:41 doubtful. 18:16:14 then only special binding is left 18:19:43 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has joined #sbcl 18:20:49 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #sbcl 18:23:23 and it is, blimey 18:25:34 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #sbcl 18:26:26 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #sbcl 18:26:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:27:32 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #sbcl 18:28:59 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #sbcl 18:38:45 i think i see it 18:39:16 with-tls-ea on windows is more contorted, it adds "the thread address into it" 18:39:42 and i save that value, but during unbind, it still adds that address, now twice 18:40:37 and i don't get why it does so, can't it just use displacement? 18:44:22 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #sbcl 18:45:42 -!- mk2 [~user@194.94.33.209] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:46:50 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #sbcl 18:52:04 stassats`: windows can only store a single pointer in TLS 18:53:02 we're already supposing that a fixed offset in the TLS vector is available. 18:53:40 so, it goes through indirection 18:54:06 Other platforms have FS directly point to the thread struct. 18:54:44 does that offset change? i can just remove that addition from unbind 18:55:39 I'm pretty sure it's always +win32-tib-arbitrary-field-offset+ 18:56:09 i meant the value at that offset 18:56:27 I doubt it. It's the thread struct. 18:56:59 ok, i'll butcher that macro with-tls-ea further by optionally avoiding addition 18:57:40 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.190.170.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:36 ok, but why did it work before? 18:59:53 ah, the problem is in bind. 19:00:44 it gets added twice, and before it just used the symbol 19:01:54 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #sbcl 19:02:28 Why not just use a temporary and actually store the TLS index? 19:03:42 to save on having to resolve it on unbind? 19:05:39 and introduce even more discrepancies between windows and other x86oids ports. 19:06:18 it's microsoft's fault 19:11:33 i will store the index for now, since the changes to the C counterparts are too complicated for the freeze 19:15:03 too bad i can't move that index store before the addition happens 19:17:09 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:19:30 can't see a way avoiding using another register 19:21:18 but i hope to change it to the absolute address after the freeze, since the windows port seems to be slow as it is 19:26:12 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #sbcl 19:30:04 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #sbcl 19:38:34 *stassats`* managed to produce 5 regressions this month 19:46:02 most recent cl-test-grid results show some new crashes: https://ci.cor-lab.de/job/sbcl-master-test-grid/label=ubuntu_quantal_32bit/Regression_Report/ 19:46:30 unfortunately, i don't know how to obtain detailed logs for this kind of error 19:47:08 WARNING: Lisp compilation had style-warnings while 19:47:10 this is silly 19:47:39 that's the buildapp failure 19:47:57 (platform is x86) 19:48:11 stassats`: buildapp is broken since some asdf upgrade 19:48:37 i'm talking about the "blue" crash results 19:48:37 but that failure is because asdf is broken perpetually 19:50:58 stassats`: do you mean all failures in that report are caused by asdf issues? 19:55:25 no, the buildapp one 19:55:40 or by cl-test-grid, not sure 19:57:00 yes, it's asdf 19:57:24 it promotes style-warnings into warnings, which is utterly bogus 19:57:26 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 19:59:22 mcclim-freetype fails because you need to (find-system :asdf) before doing it 19:59:35 err, :mcclim 20:00:34 yes, but do these asdf issues explain the random crashes which seem to only occur on x86? 20:01:12 i don't know what kind of crashes that are? heap exhaustion? 20:02:18 -!- ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:03:05 ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has joined #sbcl 20:03:10 i don't know either, but the suspicious thing is that they did not occur before and do only occur on x86, not x86_64 20:06:29 well, there's no way to say anything with just "it crashes" 20:10:25 i know, just wanted to let you know and ask for ideas 20:10:37 -!- tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:14 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.107.241] has joined #sbcl 20:36:14 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:36:44 milanj [~milanj@cable-94-189-138-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #sbcl 20:40:37 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 20:50:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:55:39 tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has joined #sbcl 20:56:22 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.105] has joined #sbcl 21:01:22 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:06:12 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #sbcl 21:07:48 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.107.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:56 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 21:19:28 scymtym [~user@ip-5-147-115-29.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #sbcl 21:30:08 -!- milanj [~milanj@cable-94-189-138-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:55:46 stassats`: i managed to reproduce locally: fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 14964(tid 3084650176): GC invariant lost, file "gencgc.c", line 2353 21:56:00 SBCL doesn't drop into ldb 21:56:07 is there anything i can do? 21:56:16 bisect? 21:56:56 i'm not sure whether it happens reliably, but i can try to bisect 21:57:10 what are you loading and how? 21:57:36 lots of quicklisp stuff and my own code, unfortunately 21:58:01 but i suspect this to be the same issue as in the cl-test-grid reports 21:58:26 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has joined #sbcl 21:58:38 what non-standard features are enabled? 21:59:19 It really looks like either a bad heap or bad GC metadata. 21:59:30 probably just --fancy 21:59:48 (btw.: this is still x86) 22:02:07 scymtym: is the failed assertion always the same? 22:03:40 seems to be 22:05:55 can you maybe check 78a953d28eb00978c08da38cb1790bb03a37b171^? 22:06:09 stassats`: sure 22:06:11 just a minute 22:07:22 or all the gencgc commits starting from 379e3d3ee80c6b9dd9c59f8f76baa6d47c8c5b71 22:08:36 but i'm offline for now 22:09:01 stassats`: ok, thanks for your suggestions 22:13:15 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:41 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-208-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:50 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-196-211-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:04 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:28 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 23:34:04 -!- tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:23:24 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:28:44 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #sbcl 01:02:06 prxq__ [~mommer@x2f67e74.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #sbcl 01:03:02 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #sbcl 01:05:08 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6be40.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:09:41 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15:58 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #sbcl 01:16:27 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 01:18:26 Does sbcl use continuation passing style within its compiler? 01:21:01 drmeiste_: not really. 01:21:49 ah - im reading the Orbit thesis CPS seems central to their approach. 01:26:57 pkhuong: im on my quixotic quest to implement light-weight continuations in my Common Lisp compiler - do you have any recomendations on papers to read that may shed some light on the subject? 01:30:00 what do you mean by lightweight? What will you be optimising for? 01:30:25 To get local variables out of heap based activation frames onto the stack. 01:30:28 Do you want to make then as pay-as-you-go as possible? Do you intend to support multishot continuations? 01:30:57 And you lost me ... multishot continuations - I'm afraid to ask what they are. 01:31:19 drmeiste_: do you mean "continuatons" or "closures" like you said in #lisp 01:33:55 Closures. The continuation passing style was in reference to the thesis Orbit: An Optimizing Compiler for Scheme by Kranz 01:34:14 you said "light-weight continuations", so 01:35:09 His discussion of escape analysis and closures is all within the context of transforming the scheme code to CPS. CPS doesn't appear to be necessary for what I need. 01:36:11 CPS enables specialised escape analysis of artificial closures introduced by CPS conversion. 01:36:39 I don't know if that was common knowledge in Orbit's era. 01:38:22 That's part of my problem, unraveling what is historical artifact and what is relevant to figuring out what variables can go on the stack and which need to go into closures on the heap - or did I mis-speak? 01:38:30 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:44 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 01:38:47 Anyway, it seems to me there are two diametrically opposed way to try and make closures efficient. There's the "Think Hard" approach more or less implemented in SBCL: closures are compiled away as much as possible with escape analysis, and, under the assumption that whatever closure remains is probably a full closure, closures are represented very simply at runtime. 01:39:06 e.g. a flat environment vector and a code pointer. 01:39:37 That works well for closures that are passed around and stored on the heap, not so much for closures that are never called or could be DX. 01:40:53 The opposite approach is to handle all closures the same, and move complexity to the runtime. Lazily allocate on the stack, and do something special when something does escape. 01:41:59 That gives you spaghetti/cactus stacks, and other hacks involving double indirection like PUC Rio Lua's environments. 01:43:14 (the implementation in Lua is actually old, but I believe their paper has the best explanation so far. You can also see it in action in clang's implementation of blocks) 01:45:25 Following what you said... what is a "flat environment vector"? 01:45:43 just a vector of values, not a tree of environments with parents 01:46:19 Bike: A list of environments, unless your lexical scope is very strange. 01:46:26 oh. 01:46:38 I have linked lists of environments (each environment is an array of object pointers) - is that a flat environment vector? 01:48:28 no. A flat environment vector copies the bindings that are closed over, so every access is in constant time. Mutable bindings are supported by closing over a mutable cell, and mutating the cell as necessary. 01:49:54 So for every closure you create a flat environment for it? Isn't there a problem if multiple closures share part of their environment? bindings? I'm not using the terminology properly -sorry. 01:52:22 You know - it's really the "escape analysis" that I don't understand - how does SBCL do that? 01:54:20 All that SBCL does is detect if a function (or function value) only appears as a callee. 01:56:35 Is that all? 01:57:13 Not to minimize it - gosh no. 01:57:54 yes. It's stupid, but good enough for many cases. 01:58:01 That, and dynamic extent declarations. 01:58:28 I mean if a function is called but never calls anything else then its variables can be stored on the stack? 01:58:58 it's not about not calling anything else. It's about only being called from within its own lexical scope. 02:00:34 For the longest time, DX declarations on a function only meant that the environment vector could be allocated on the stack. Now, that vector can also include a pointer to the relevant stack frame(s) and avoid mutable cells. 02:03:57 I'm still stuck on the "detect if a function (or function value) only appears as a callee". 02:04:54 (defun x () (a 1)) (defun a (z) (+ 1 z)) "a" is a callee in "x" - right? 02:05:06 no, 1 is 02:05:19 drmeiste_: sure. 02:05:28 ergh, nevermind me. 02:06:46 What is an example of it not appearing as a callee. 02:07:51 (flet ((a ...)) #'a). 02:08:59 Right - does FUNCTION always force the creation of a closure? 02:10:21 maybe, maybe not. What if it's (flet ((a ...)) (funcall #'a ...)) ? What about (let ((a (flet ... #'a))) (funcall a))? Or (let ((a (if .. #'a #'b))) (funcall a))? ... 02:12:09 So for every function SBCL checks every time it is mentioned and if it is ever used as something other than a callee it get's a closure? 02:12:26 pretty much. 02:18:16 I've got to go back up and read this all again - I think I'm confusing heap/stack storage with closures again. 02:19:02 Closures are an environment and chunk of code, the environment is stored on the heap. 02:19:51 Variables need to go into closures (on the heap) if they are determined to escape. 02:21:02 Variables escape if the functions that they are defined within appear as anything other than a callee ... anywhere in the program? 02:21:20 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:22:59 I've got to stop and think on this some more. I'm getting more and more confused 02:23:41 I wrote a freakin' compiler - why the heck am I so confused? 02:25:43 I found a bunch of papers on "escape analysis" this morning - I'll go read those. 02:35:38 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 02:39:06 -!- christoph_debian [~christoph@ppp-188-174-61-122.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:42:28 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [K-Lined] 02:52:04 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:52:24 christoph_debian [~christoph@ppp-188-174-147-13.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #sbcl 02:54:19 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 02:57:39 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:21 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 03:31:03 -!- scymtym [~user@ip-5-147-115-29.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:32:39 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 03:33:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:26 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:18:58 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:54:13 ASau` [~user@p5797F0D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 04:55:46 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EF0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:56:40 FrostyX [~frostyx@tux.inf.upol.cz] has joined #sbcl 04:59:21 Hi, I am confused. I have installed SBCL and I have problem with printing. When I run interpreter and do for example (+ 1 2) I got 3 of course. But when I write it into script and do sbcl --script foo.lisp then I got no output. Can you please help me? 05:00:30 FrostyX: you have to do some IO (e.g. PRINT or FORMAT) to get output in script mode. 05:00:41 At the REPL, the evaluation loop always prints the result back at you. 05:00:52 but that's not your code doing it, only the listener. 05:06:41 pkhuong: Ah, ok. I am new in lisp and in school they told us to use lispworks. I think that is so horrible IDE, so I want use vim + sbcl :-). In lispworks it works same as in interactive mode so I was confused 05:06:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 05:09:54 FrostyX: #lisp can probably help you better. 05:37:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:38:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.224.193] has joined #sbcl 05:38:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.224.193] has quit [Changing host] 05:38:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 05:57:16 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: maintainance destroyed by reoccurring activity] 05:59:26 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:04:04 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:05:17 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #sbcl 06:27:07 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 07:23:24 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 07:52:41 -!- joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:55:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:55:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.224.193] has joined #sbcl 07:56:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.224.193] has quit [Changing host] 07:56:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 07:59:51 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.219.78] has joined #sbcl 07:59:51 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.219.78] has quit [Changing host] 07:59:51 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 08:01:56 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:22:08 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #sbcl 08:39:34 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 08:54:08 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 09:04:15 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 09:06:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.251] has joined #sbcl 09:06:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.251] has quit [Changing host] 09:06:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 09:23:18 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 09:24:06 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-211-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 09:31:54 -!- kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:37:05 kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #sbcl 11:17:59 davazp [~user@92.251.213.27.threembb.ie] has joined #sbcl 11:46:00 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-110-74.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 11:55:30 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 12:05:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:54 scymtym [~user@ip-5-147-115-29.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #sbcl 12:17:02 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.213.27.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:26:15 -!- scymtym [~user@ip-5-147-115-29.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:54:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:58:05 -!- psilord [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:06:50 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:19:31 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.219.13] has joined #sbcl 13:19:31 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.219.13] has quit [Changing host] 13:19:31 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 13:21:31 kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-110-74.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 13:21:56 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-110-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:17 psilord [~pkeller@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 14:22:32 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #sbcl 14:23:51 Hello, i'm not quite familiar with sb-ext:finalize, just read about it from sbcl manual. I'm interested in one particular use case: 14:26:00 Currently i'm using unwind-protect to free memory from allocated in C object(having functions NEW-FOO and DESTROY-FOO, first one returns newly allocated object and secod one frees memory from it), 14:27:30 is it posible to get rid of unwind-protect by just setting finalizer on newly allocated object in NEW-FOO function? 14:27:42 it won't achieve the same result 14:28:02 <|3b|> you probably want the unwind-protect anyway, since finalizer may not be called indefinitely or never 14:28:34 finalizer is a way to ensure that when your parent object is collected, the c memory is also freed 14:31:01 and finalizers don't seem to be terribly efficient, especially when you have a lot of objects finalized 14:31:23 finalization by type could potentially do a better job 14:34:30 I think Bruno Haible gave an ECLM talk way back when about finalizers and weak pointers 14:34:42 worth looking at 14:35:53 maybe just a GF, finalize-object, with an empty default method 14:39:05 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #sbcl 14:41:18 Yep, thats what i need -- to free memory occupied by allocated in C object without wrapping eveything in unwind-protect. I'm not sure why finalizer may be not called at like |3b| said, if finalizer not called that means that object never got GD'd, right? 14:41:30 <|3b|> exactly 14:41:45 <|3b|> if you don't allocate much lisp data, GC doesn't run 14:42:08 <|3b|> if GC is conservative, something might keep the object alive 14:43:06 <|3b|> (or you might just have copies of the object somewhere you didn't think about) 14:43:43 <|3b|> well, not 'copies', but i can't think of the right word at the moment 14:44:36 So does my attempt to came up with something about freeing dynamically allocated arrays coming from C via CFFI without wrapping every invocation of function which produces these arrays just failed? 14:44:44 Maybe you ca suggest something guys? 14:45:12 without wrapping in unwind-protect* 14:45:13 *|3b|* usually just tries to use a with-foo macro that allocates and cleans up 14:45:41 <|3b|> probably using unwind-protect internally 14:46:07 |3b|: Yeah, i'm using it to but it's becames quite ugle when you have to use it in a lot places. :( 14:49:06 It'll be really awesome to have some kind of tag by which i can mark object(in my case foreign pointer) with function which will be executed when object goes out of scope, yeah it is dangerous but i can restrain myself from setf'ing var to toplevel scope. 14:50:46 I think closest thing to that conept is finalizers, because i'm not usually use glabal variables ot mutable state, my variables live only in function scope. 14:51:41 <|3b|> well, you could write a with-cleanups macro that would do that 14:52:23 Indeed, just trying to figure something out just not to do that. :) 03:20:15 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #sbcl 03:20:15 03:20:15 -!- names: ccl-logbot christoph_debian ehaliewicz FrostyX Bike prxq__ fe[nl]ix scymtym psilord yacks edgar-rft Fare ASau kludge` jaimef antoszka Kromitvs joshe nicdev danlentz fikusz milosn asedeno bege minion redline6561 reb gko Posterdati |3b| otwieracz @Krystof pchrist flip214 kanru 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Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:27:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.85.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:47 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #sbcl 17:36:23 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:21 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 17:54:27 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #sbcl 18:05:45 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:06:08 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 19:01:33 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-225-54.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 19:03:59 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:50 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #sbcl 19:05:54 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-124-231.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 19:06:10 sdemarre [~serge@142.191-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #sbcl 19:12:06 pkhuong: why does there have to be a default stack size? 19:21:03 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 19:31:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:30 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:35:29 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 20:42:17 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 20:46:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:52:26 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:59:21 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #sbcl 22:01:02 -!- sdemarre [~serge@142.191-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:21 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:06:09 stassats`: isn't that only used for the initial thread size? Other threads we allocate ourselves and can change that pretty much arbitrarily. 22:06:55 i meant default frame size 22:07:39 default? 22:07:50 initial frame size? 22:07:58 LEA RSP, [RBP-16] 22:08:02 yes 22:08:15 We need two slots for the return address and old cfp 22:08:26 but during register allocation, we start at 3 stack slots on x86oids. 22:09:07 In theory, it could be zero, but there is some logic that pretends there's at least 3 slots in any stack frame in *some* of the stack frame setup code. 22:10:00 I vaguely remember that's because there are 3 arg passing registers, but I'm not sure. Anyway, I left it at three because the logic that makes sure there's at least 3 slots has never been tickled in decades. 22:10:06 how come the first saving location is [RBP-8], doesn't that overwrite those slots? 22:10:19 what slots? 22:10:37 for the return address and old cfp 22:10:57 no. The return sequence is pop rbp/ret. 22:11:11 and stack grows down. 22:11:59 i just don't understand the meaning of LEA RSP, [RBP-16] 22:12:19 it grows the stack frame by 2 slots. 22:12:56 sets it at three slots, actually. 22:13:07 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #sbcl 22:13:13 it stays [RBP-16] when i force two variables onto stack, only with third it becomes -24, so, the question, why not [RBP] when the stack is not used 22:13:41 did you read what I wrote about there being logic to pretend there's at least 3 slots in any frame? 22:14:06 that doesn't explain why it's there 22:14:56 and how well extending RSP and exposing old values will work with the GC? with a precise GC? 22:15:38 as well as it works on other platforms. 22:15:50 precise platforms still start the stack at 8 slots and grow it by 8 at a time. 22:16:22 disregarding the default size 22:16:36 I don't understand the question. 22:16:43 the RSP is adjusted before the values are written 22:17:06 yes. Same as other (i.e. precise) platforms. 22:17:16 i'm not really familiar with other platforms 22:18:03 are all values on the stack are forced to be boxed? 22:18:14 two stacks? for boxed/unboxed? 22:18:44 -!- prxq__ [~mommer@x2f68797.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:53 there are two stacks, one for boxed values and return addresses, another for unboxed numbers. 22:19:31 ok, what happens when the boxed value points to a dead/moved object? 22:19:32 a single-stack implementation would likely need some form of stack map. 22:19:53 the control stack must either be scrubbed or scavenged at every gc. 22:20:32 even past the stack pointer? 22:20:52 i guess just zeroing it works 22:21:45 every single word in the control stack must be zeroed or scavenged. 22:24:41 once a register is saved to a particular location, it stays there till the end? 22:24:53 registers aren't saved; TNs are. 22:25:05 what if it can't be reached anymore past some point in code 22:25:22 right, i wanted to say "variable" 22:25:42 the stack slot may be reused. 22:26:51 and if it isn't touched, it may become uncollectable object inside a long running function 22:27:27 i see a performance vs. precision trade off 22:31:07 maybe some optimize declaration, gc-precision, to optionally zero locations after the last usage 22:54:42 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:58:18 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:09 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #sbcl 23:03:02 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:00 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #sbcl 23:17:39 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 23:24:56 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-225-54.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:25:08 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping 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[~fare@c-67-186-132-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 12:32:48 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-168-108-7.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 12:37:13 echo-area [~user@123.120.234.61] has joined #sbcl 12:57:06 -!- Fare [~fare@c-67-186-132-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:10:53 hi guys 13:12:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 13:33:07 pkhuong stassats` about https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1171223, I've uploaded the graphs related to the new %list-length 13:33:51 http://postimg.org/image/bi70hbvxn/ http://postimg.org/image/bpurcfxo9/ http://postimg.org/image/cda4ydk1j/ http://postimg.org/image/mhmagj9zl/ 13:37:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:37:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.20.114] has joined #sbcl 13:37:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.20.114] has quit [Changing host] 13:37:55 attila_lendvai 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09:55:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:05:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.12] has joined #sbcl 10:05:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.12] has quit [Changing host] 10:05:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 10:18:59 pkhuong: are you there? 11:09:54 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 11:21:22 echo-area [~user@123.120.254.253] has joined #sbcl 11:47:39 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-195-14-221-71.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 11:53:15 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:46:15 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 12:52:13 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 12:59:06 -!- oleo [d4b81ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.184.30.205] has quit [] 13:15:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:16 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.254.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:00 echo-area [~user@123.120.254.253] has joined #sbcl 13:26:08 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #sbcl 13:27:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:45:49 I hope everyone has a bunch of exciting commits lined up for 1.1.12.x 13:50:39 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.85.178] has joined #sbcl 13:50:46 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-212-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 13:57:32 I have one 14:02:32 "The offset between our time base and the Perq one" 14:02:41 that's useful 14:07:32 stassats`: sorry to bother, but did you see the plot I posted yesterday? 14:08:44 i've seen it, but i'm not really that interested 14:08:50 ok 14:08:52 i'm fine with length going circles 14:15:27 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has 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