00:40:47 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #sbcl 00:40:47 00:40:47 -!- names: ccl-logbot cheryllium oleo Bike scymtym_ slyrus milosn ASau jdz davazp fridim__ nyef kludge` christoph_deb prxq xymox izirku brown` fridim_ asedeno jrm kanru antoszka White_Flame ams yauz @Krystof bege foom specbot Posterdati pchrist flip214 jaimef luis brucem fe[nl]ix Blkt psilord1 jsnell scymtym daimrod pkhuong mood redline6561 ivan`` nicdev faheem minion hzp joshe ferada Munksgaard |3b| 00:40:58 oh dear 00:41:03 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #sbcl 00:41:05 well, one way to find out. 00:41:08 *cheryllium* runs tests again. 00:41:20 Yup. See you after your next reboot. d-: 00:43:43 at least win8 reboots SUPER fast 00:44:43 Bet it's not as fast at rebooting as my Commodore 64, though. 00:44:56 Then again, I wouldn't want to try and run SBCL on a Commodore 64. 00:46:29 nyef, do you really have a commondore 64? 00:46:34 *commodore 00:47:16 It's sitting in a box in the barn along with a couple of disk drives, my Vic-20, a cassette tape drive, and probably some other bits and bots. 00:47:38 -!- davazp [~user@167.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:41 how old is the commodore 64 now? 00:47:49 it's like an old legend to my generation. 00:48:05 I believe the phrase is "old enough to vote". 00:48:29 Early '80s, I think. 00:50:14 you must be fairly grizzled :) 00:51:33 oh well this is unfortunate. 00:51:46 Not so as you'd notice, the way my hairline started to recede when I was in my late teens. /-: 00:51:48 the tests ran for like 10 minutes and then- debugger 00:52:06 Linux VM or Windows? 00:52:11 linux vm 00:52:16 Hrm. That's not good. 00:52:36 it says "error opening #P"/home/cheryl/sbcl/tests/test-status.lisp-expr": Permission denied 00:52:44 should I rerun the tests as root? 00:53:00 ... You've been running as root for any of this? 00:53:11 yes, but my computer rebooted, remember? 00:53:28 I would neither build nor run tests as root if I could avoid it. 00:53:29 and then I just forgot to root myself, I went straight to rerunning the test. 00:54:01 hmm, okay, well I'm not root right now 00:54:06 do you have any idea what this error means? 00:54:26 But if you started a test run as root, you should probably either clean up the mess, take a clean checkout and build from scratch, or just run the test suite as root. 00:58:38 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:59:05 how would I "clean up the mess"? 00:59:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:14 "chown -R user:user ." from the working directory, substituting your username for "user". 01:00:29 You'll probably need to run that as root, though. 01:00:42 That should at least clear up the file permissions. 01:01:00 thanks 01:02:10 should I rebuild, or just rerun the tests? 01:02:22 Should be able to just rerun the tests. 01:03:06 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #sbcl 01:08:25 I get five expected failures and four skipped tests. 01:08:38 what does SBCL HEAD refer to? 01:08:41 On x86-64/linux. 01:08:57 Do you mean which commit, or something else? 01:09:19 I am reading Paul Khuong's blog post, and he says "Once SBCL HEAD is working and installed..." 01:09:32 Ah. The most recent commit on the master branch. 01:09:42 Thanks. Thanks for bearing with my noob questions. 01:10:44 It's not entirely altruistic patience. I'm hoping to sucker you into doing some of the maintenance work that I haven't been doing. d-: 01:11:36 I appreciate it anyway. I know I'm sacrificing a bit of pride in asking stupid questions. But I genuinely want to learn. I genuinely want to reach that point where I can do your maintenance work for you :P 01:12:18 I dunno if you've ever felt this - maybe a long, long time ago in the past - but I feel intimidated a lot in these irc channels, where everyone is so knowledgable and experienced 01:12:31 and I know... nothing 01:14:02 It's been a while, I must admit. Largely because I got to be very familiar with my learning curve. Yes, I can be a rank amateur at some things, but it takes me very little time to be good enough to at least get into trouble, usually to find my way out of it, and very easily to at least be able to point others to possibly-useful resources. 01:14:34 It's no longer intimidating to me, it's exciting. There's so much out there to learn! 01:16:14 Let's see, freshman. That puts you to just shy of your second decade? 01:17:06 I turned 19 about a week ago. 01:17:50 It's exciting, but I'm still afraid people are going to look down on me for not being able to "just figure it out myself" 01:17:55 or my favorite, "just google it" 01:18:16 does anybody have a better idea for the test in http://paste.lisp.org/display/141488 (especially the "prevent flushing" part)? 01:18:48 Meh. There are some things that I still need help with, and I buy books on various things at ferocious rate, and I was trained as an autodidact. 01:19:05 this test has been hanging here for minutes now: "Running (:SEMAPHORE-NOTIFICATION :WAIT-ON-SEMAPHORE)" 01:19:15 is this one supposed to take so long? 01:19:35 Minutes? That seems spectacularly unlikely. 01:19:49 Well then, I suppose there is some sort of problem here 01:21:11 this is what my terminal has looked like for the past 5 minutes: http://i.imgur.com/YaUxnVs.png 01:21:23 and it still looks like that 01:22:54 cheryllium: that test is known to sometimes hang; see 01:22:56 lp 1038034 01:22:56 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1038034 01:24:08 thanks. I suppose I should terminate this testing session, and apply a patch 01:24:29 it is a bug in SBCL or the test and most likely not caused by your environment 01:24:47 as far as i know, there is no acceptable patch so far 01:25:12 I've... never run into this one. 01:25:18 okay... is there a way I can modify the test script to skip this test, so I can continue to the next tests, or should I just stop trying to run the test suite :/ 01:25:28 And it's a "new" "undecided" bug, so it's not one that would appear on my radar. 01:25:41 this bug report does say "rare", perhaps it won't occur on my new laptop when it arrives next week 01:25:57 cheryllium: Given the reported frequency of failure, it's entirely possible that a new run won't catch it. 01:25:59 well, new used laptop :) 01:26:11 nyef so it is one of those nondeterministic bugs 01:26:34 Anything involving threads has a good chance at being nondeterministic. 01:27:58 Ok then, run-tests.sh for the 20th time 01:28:07 :( 01:28:08 ... literally? 01:28:12 no 01:28:17 it's more like the... 5th time. 01:28:24 Yeah, that's more plausible. 01:28:31 I am prone to exaggerate when I encounter problems :P 01:28:43 do not take me seriously if I sound dramatic. 01:29:43 nyef: can you suggest improvements for the test in the patch i posted? otherwise it would become my first commit as it is :) 01:30:38 scymtym_: I'm just getting back to looking at that. 01:30:50 nyef: sorry, i'm a bit excited :) 01:32:59 scymtym_: You have two test cases there masquerading as one. Split it into one test for *print-length* and one for *print-level*. 01:33:27 Otherwise it looks good. 01:33:39 nyef: sure; can i prevent the flushing more elegantly? 01:33:44 it kind of bugs me 01:34:57 First thing that comes to mind is that bumping DEBUG in a LOCALLY might do the trick. Second is that returning it as a second value should do the trick. 01:35:40 Third is that pinning it as though you wanted to pass it to an alien function would do the trick. 01:37:07 right, returning it as a value should work now that i changed the print-backtrace- function from local to toplevel 01:38:21 nyef: that works (returning it); thanks for the review 01:40:17 cheryllium: The other thing is that if you show interest in being able to do something, most people who are "in the know" will be interested in helping you, not in laughing at you. I still run into intimidating PROBLEMS, but rarely intimidating subject areas. I've been in the position of saying, effectively, "this was hard, and I don't want to commit to it until someone whose abilities I respect has looked it over" as recently as 01:40:17 yesterday, but it's not a big deal. 01:40:24 cheryllium: sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt your conversation 01:40:36 scymtym_: don't worry about it :) 01:40:45 Meh. This is IRC. Everyone is presumed to be able to handle at least two conversations simultaneously. 01:44:33 scymtym_: Your issue with maintaining a reference so that it would show up in the backtrace was a "simple" matter of finding a construct that involves it that the compiler wouldn't delete. One of the ways to do that is to arrange for it to, in some sense, "escape". 01:46:48 nyef: that was actually my first idea, and i tried returning the argument to force just that 01:47:02 unfortunately, i just a local function at that time 01:47:11 s/just/used/ 01:47:14 Yeah, the compiler gets to be smart when it comes to local functions. 01:47:55 yeah, i didn't think of that when doing that particular experiment 01:48:28 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 01:48:35 You'll know it for next time, though. 01:49:10 likely, given we had a conversation about it 01:56:59 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317685.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:59:59 yay, finished running tests. 5 expected failures, 3, er, non-expected failures. something about /bin/ed... 02:00:12 it says, "IS-/BIN/ED-INSTALLED?" 02:00:20 am I... supposed to install ed? 02:04:12 cheryllium: the test runs ed as a child process of SBCL; you can make it pass by installing ed 02:04:21 Heh. I'd forgotten about those. 02:04:30 isn't ed just a text editor..? 02:04:39 what does it have to do with sbcl? why does the test run it? 02:04:41 It is. IIRC those are RUN-PROGRAM tests. 02:04:49 ohhhhh 02:05:07 It's not just a text editor, it's *THE* text editor. The *STANDARD* text editor. 02:09:49 fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.77.146] has joined #sbcl 02:11:00 as an emacs user I am not sure I can agree 02:11:07 I think it might be against my religion to agree. 02:12:17 it's a joke. 'ed is the standard text editor' is in man files or somesuch 02:12:31 Think again: The emacs documentation specifically includes a document including the joke that Bike mensions. 02:13:15 noooo I suppose ed is the one true god 02:14:02 in common lisp, ED is also a function starting an editor 02:15:08 hm, 'man ed' is half copied out of IEEE standards on my machine 02:16:45 Also see SB-EXT:*ED-FUNCTIONS* 02:38:55 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6b75e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #sbcl 02:42:29 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6cbcf.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:03:29 in quicklisp slime helper, it says to replace sbcl with the path to your implementation, how can I find the path to my sbcl on linux? 03:04:05 cheryllium: $ type -p sbcl 03:04:47 thank you! 03:07:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #sbcl 03:07:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 03:07:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 03:16:16 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 03:23:00 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:25:01 Bicyclidine [45a62f69@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.166.47.105] has joined #sbcl 03:35:56 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 03:37:17 -!- christoph_deb [~christoph@ppp-88-217-43-129.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:46:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:40 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 03:46:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:14 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 03:49:20 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #sbcl 03:52:26 christoph_deb [~christoph@ppp-46-244-211-106.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #sbcl 04:00:51 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.31.51] has joined #sbcl 04:00:51 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.31.51] has quit [Changing host] 04:00:51 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 04:09:21 so I have finally installed everything. I suppose at this point, I should read through the python compiler paper and the sbcl internals manual? I'm afraid it might be too dense 04:09:41 would it be better to start exploring the source? 04:14:52 cheryllium: I am not familiar with sbcl's internals, but I wanted to understand Emacs's internals I did it like this: 1. read documentation; when I was bored -> 2. read the source about what I just read earlier; goto 1. 04:15:37 but I guess it mostly depends on what you would like to work on. 04:16:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #sbcl 04:22:52 cheryllium: Skim all the documentation you have. Look through the bug tracker for an "easy" bug (there are a number of bugs tagged as "easy") that looks like it might involve an interesting part of the system and try to figure it out. Try things. Dig into the source for whatever strikes your interest. Go back and read the internals manuals and various papers. 04:23:57 woo, big project. 04:24:10 I REALLY hope my gsoc application gets accepted 04:24:13 I'm getting kinda excited. 04:31:02 Good luck. 04:36:51 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-132-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 05:36:04 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.77.146] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:02:02 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-179-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:43 -!- ASau [~user@176.5.184.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:09:15 sdemarre [~serge@112.84-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #sbcl 06:37:18 -!- Bicyclidine [45a62f69@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.166.47.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:01:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@112.84-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:04:47 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.213.55] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 07:09:50 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timeout: 264 seconds] 15:18:04 -!- scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:baca:3aff:fe83:e736] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:31 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #sbcl 15:40:59 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat103.it.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 15:41:03 scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:baca:3aff:fe83:e736] has joined #sbcl 15:43:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:02 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #sbcl 15:57:47 Hi. Might be a stupid question, but how do I incrementally build sbcl? Or is this the default? Also, I'm using quicklisp-slime-helper, so what's the typical workflow to test changes in source code like? Right now I do M-. to edit code, quit slime after edits, do ./make.sh via the terminal, and restart slime to test the edits 15:59:17 <|3b|> depends on what you are changing 15:59:26 <|3b|> many things you can just compile from slime and keep going 16:00:42 <|3b|> some things you can just recompile part, some need whole recompile 16:01:03 *|3b|* mostly just does the "recompile from slime" stuff though, so can't tell you much about the others 16:01:30 |3b|, great! Any pointers as to how I can do the recompiling from slime? 16:02:01 <|3b|> C-c C-c same as any lisp code 16:02:19 <|3b|> (or whichever key combination you use for that sort of thing) 16:03:26 |3b|, oh. I think I might need to look that up, C-c C-c does an interrupt thing in mine. But thanks! 16:03:47 <|3b|> C-c C-c in a lisp buffer compiles+loads the top-level form containing the cursor 16:04:13 <|3b|> bound to "slime-compile-defun" here 16:04:50 <|3b|> lisp buffers and repl have different keybindings, which can be confusing for cases like that 16:05:56 <|3b|> (C-c C-b is the binding for "slime-interrupt" in lisp buffers) 16:05:56 ah 16:07:12 <|3b|> there is also C-M-x which just evaluates instead of compile+load 16:07:46 <|3b|> (C-M-x also handles defvar specially, and reinitializes it even if it already has a value) 16:08:39 <|3b|> usually pretty obvious when recompiling forms from slime won't work, tends to either break the compiler obviously or just have no effect at all 16:09:11 <|3b|> or error because it expects something that is only defined during compilation 16:12:01 Ah, alright 16:12:18 Also, any advice to a new sbcl-wannabe-contributor? I'm just starting to look at the easy bugs and such at the moment. I wanted to give gsoc a shot (a lot of projects look very interesting), but it looks like my gsoc eligibility expires a little too early. But if it's possible that I can pick one of the gsoc projects and do a parallel gsoc with a mentor and without google as the middleman, that would be great! 16:18:10 always happy to have new blood -- if you want mentoring on a project, I'd be happy to help. (Bad luck on your eligibility) 16:25:39 Krystof, Thanks! I'll zero in on a project and start working on a proposal. About the eligibility, oh well, I think it's a bit liberating as well, cutting out on the logistics and paper submissions. 17:06:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:11:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #sbcl 17:11:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 17:11:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 17:15:50 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #sbcl 17:28:24 zkc [~zhangkaiz@27.47.16.26] has joined #sbcl 17:28:56 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 17:42:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:43:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #sbcl 17:43:34 -!- attila_lendvai 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