00:00:14 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFF70F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:05:23 -!- crixus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:06:27 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:25:11 crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #sbcl 00:42:51 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 00:49:29 -!- crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:37 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 01:08:16 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:32:03 mogglebam [~marco@99-95-170-156.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #sbcl 01:32:12 Hi, is there a way to "touch" variables? 01:32:20 meaning? 01:32:23 Such that SBCL doesn't delete them if they're not used. 01:32:35 I'm trying to benchmark procedure calls in SBCL. 01:32:56 like C volatile? 01:33:04 I think so, yes. 01:33:09 Use higher levels of DEBUG optimization quality? 01:33:35 Something like (defun three-args (x1 x2 x3) nil) gets compiled to ASM that doesn't allocate space for x1 x2 x3, it just returns nil (really, as it should) 01:34:05 nyef: higher DEBUG routs around those optimizations? Thanks, I'll try that. 01:34:13 I couldn't find anything in the docs about it doing that 01:34:21 Wait, wait... you only have three parameters? 01:34:42 I can't think of any SBCL backend that has fewer than three parameter-passing registers. 01:34:45 That's just an example, I want to benchmark a range of parameters. 01:35:38 And even then, since the caller allocates the stack frame... 01:36:11 crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #sbcl 01:36:12 Yeah, fifteen named parameters, all ignored, but kept by the compiler because of high debug, is still not going to be appreciably slower on the callee side. 01:38:13 Hm, what if I time the caller? 01:38:54 Your results would tend to depend on what mechanism you use to perform the call. 01:40:24 no matter how many args you have, just returning NIL isn't going to measure anything 01:40:35 you need to do something with them 01:40:56 Okay... yeah, I was worried about that initially, see above :-\ 01:41:18 you can return them, for starters 01:41:52 nyef: That's okay. Depending on the mechanism used to call. I could compare the available options. Eg funcall vs hardcoded? 01:42:07 (How THAT behaves will depend on if you use a pure &REST arglist or bind the parameters explicitly, if you re-order the arguments before you return them, and a number of other factors. 01:42:08 what do you want to measure? 01:42:21 funcall vs. apply. 01:42:48 Hardcoded tends to behave the same as funcall unless you funcall a function-name rather than a function-object. 01:43:07 (Although if the function-name is constant, that gets converted at compile-time, IIRC.) 01:45:05 I thought about just returning them, but then I would have to return multiple values and I didn't really want to benchmark that. What I wanted to compare was, the cost of calling a function (with funcall or apply) on steadily increasing numbers of arguments and getting a single return value, vs. just sticking that code in the current function. 01:46:17 well, you will measure something, because caller will do process all the arguments 01:46:45 Mmm. At a certain point, you'll be looking at stack spill cost for your CPU. 01:47:09 As a general rule, microbenchmarks rarely measure what they are intended to measure, and are also rarely useful. 01:47:15 then there are different kinds of apply, on &more (i.e. stack allocated &rest) or on a list 01:48:22 here, just calling a empty function is slower on a faster specced haswell than on sandy bridge 01:49:20 Weird. Huh. 01:49:20 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 01:49:58 back to back calls and returns are probably not well handled 01:50:30 -!- davazp [~user@14.Red-79-152-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:50 What about summing all the values together and returning that, after independently benchmarking + for i arguments? 01:53:13 Does that have obvious downsides that I'm overlooking 01:54:21 Full calls to GENERIC-+ for starters? 01:54:51 Vs. calls where the compiler knows that the result and all parameters are FIXNUMs, or fit within a machine word, or are floats, or... 01:55:13 And if there are constant arguments to +? The compiler might simply open-code the operation. 01:55:35 it will constant fold 01:55:44 Yes, that too. 01:55:56 bloody compiler, being smart 01:56:14 But not Sufficiently Smart. (-: 02:02:18 I'm not sufficiently smart. I'm taking an OS class this semester and a compilers class this semester, and my project for OS is doing a bunch of microbenchmarks of my system. 02:02:43 I'm trying to implement them in CL so I get a better understanding of SBCL's guts, so I can do something with SBCL for my compilers project next semester. 02:03:26 compilers class *next* semester 02:03:54 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:18:15 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #sbcl 02:20:01 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 02:34:16 -!- crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:44:30 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 02:45:57 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 02:58:23 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 03:01:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #sbcl 03:01:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 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[~none@173-12-202-100-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 18:39:49 fiveop: Hello. 18:42:46 -!- LiamH [~none@173-12-202-100-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:48:14 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Sleep Now] 19:06:42 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 19:10:13 senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has joined #sbcl 19:29:14 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 19:36:47 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #sbcl 19:50:10 scymtym_ [~user@ip-5-147-115-29.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #sbcl 19:52:53 Krystof: would you like to amend the blog post with a link to https://github.com/scymtym/language-extension.pattern-specializer/ so that, if people get interested in the idea, they don't needlessly start from scratch? 19:54:22 (i know that code is not ready for anything but toying around, but on the other hand, there may be some reusable building blocks) 19:54:39 I was planning on keeping it under wraps a little bit longer 19:54:55 well, not "under wraps" but hoping to see if I could find the time to fold into mine 19:55:31 but I am equally happy to link if you're ready for the support requests ;-) 19:56:41 sure, merging both approaches would fine 19:56:54 i was kind of waiting for your next step anyway :) 19:57:10 i just though your post might get people excited 19:57:29 and i have the impression that excited lisp programmers may start from scratch 20:04:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:04:56 scymtym_: haha 20:05:01 I suppose there is that danger 20:05:06 I'll try not to leave them dangling for too long 20:05:59 I haven't got too much of a feeling of excitement from e-mail, really, mostly "I don't know what a prototype object system does either" 20:20:36 Krystof: let me know in case i can help 20:33:09 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 20:36:17 Hello, I think I have come across a bug in restart behavior in sbcl 1.1.14 http://paste.lisp.org/display/140997 (sorry for "I think", but after reading the clhs and asking in #lisp I was still not certain about the specified behavior) 20:36:18 LiamH [~none@173-12-202-100-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 20:38:10 -!- LiamH [~none@173-12-202-100-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:30 Vivitron: it's not completely clear, but about 6 months ago scymtym_ convinced me that the new way was the right way 20:39:22 oh, but wait, I haven't read your example properly 20:39:36 With the new way a restart is presented interactively, but triggers an inactive restart error when invoked 20:39:56 well, a simple-control-error 20:41:14 so if you did (typep c '(or null error)) in the test, does that work? 20:41:41 (sorry, I'm engaged in something rather mindless and I must concentrate on it or else I won't get it done) 20:42:06 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6d30c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42:08 Krystof: that returns nil 20:42:30 prxq [~mommer@x2f6d30c.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #sbcl 20:44:13 Krystof: rather, when null is in the typespec, invoking the custom-restart interactively returns nil rather than signalling another condition 20:48:16 that's what you expect, right? 20:49:04 Yes. It's what I thought should happen without null as well. 20:51:02 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-184-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51:44 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-158-30.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 20:59:20 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:06:48 Krystof, Vivitron: i think we (well, i, mostly) may have forgotten interactive invocations of restarts (according to git blame); INVOKE-RESTART-INTERACTIVELY could behave like INVOKE-RESTART 21:07:35 yeah, I think I agree 21:08:27 the comment in INVOKE-RESTART could be clearer, though :( 21:10:01 ok, back to boring form filling 21:10:56 Thanks 21:11:00 Vivitron: i will try to prepare a patch and associated tests tomorrow 21:11:30 scymtym_: awesome:) 21:15:01 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wqemhdgecxwotbln] has joined #sbcl 21:15:17 was undefined-function downgraded from WARNING to STYLE-WARNING in the last year or so? 21:17:56 Searching for the word "undefined" in git log doesn't take too long to get as far back as 2010 without seeing anything likely. 21:26:19 thanks. 21:26:43 I suppose the whole undefined-function warning thing should be simplified and made more portable. 21:26:55 (in ASDF) 21:27:51 as in, save the name of the function and the string representation of the warning, and muffle it, then print the string as is. 21:44:01 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wqemhdgecxwotbln] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:45:25 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 21:48:15 nyef: hi, I saw your comment 21:49:50 Okay, good. I was going to call your attention to it when you spoke up if you hadn't mentioned it. 21:49:54 I think the mov x x (lsl y), sub r x z -> rsb r z (lsl x y) might occur in further places 21:50:12 -occur +be useful 21:50:56 I hadn't had time yet to look at the calling conventions 21:51:14 Yeah, that's fine. 21:51:15 tomorrow evening a bit and on the weekend probably 21:51:37 I haven't really had time to do much more than a review of your last batch of patches myself. 21:52:03 At some point, when I'm through build order once, I'll go over all the vops myself again. 21:52:20 I'll have a way better understanding of pretty much everything involved by that point. 21:53:04 I think the composite-immediate-instruction might better be a function 21:57:32 good night 21:57:36 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 22:14:15 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6d30c.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #sbcl 22:14:48 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6d30c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:32 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6d30c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:04 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 23:30:00 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 23:37:26 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:41:28 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:47:07 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 23:51:21 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 23:56:26 ASau` [~user@p54AFE351.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 23:59:59 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D1F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]