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ZZZzzz] 16:41:23 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.140.221] has joined #sbcl 16:45:38 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 16:47:39 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 16:57:26 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.140.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:06 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:17 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-dsdcwzwkypktstcr] has joined #sbcl 17:43:37 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-179-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:44:25 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-129-92.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 17:46:38 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-129-92.netcologne.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:54:07 benkard [~benkard@ppp-93-104-25-56.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #sbcl 18:01:52 It's GSoC midterm evaluation time. I've already submitted mine. 18:02:12 By the way, does #sbcl get logged somewhere? 18:02:47 minion: logs? 18:02:48 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 18:02:55 replace lisp with sbcl in the first one 18:02:59 Thanks. :) 18:03:17 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 18:03:43 evaluations should be taken care of 18:03:52 so what's up with the other kind of evaluator? :-) 18:04:07 any progress on the debugger integration since we last talked? 18:05:28 No... I still haven't found a way of getting stuff from the evaluator into the debugger. :/ 18:06:08 so my understanding was that you could get variable information, but not the source positions. is that correct? 18:07:28 Yes, I can access the environment, at least when the debugger is compiled with sufficient debug information. I can't figure out what the variables are, thoughthe evnironment is just a vector. 18:08:41 The mapping from variable names to vector indices is information that only the compilation-into-closures step has. 18:08:55 ok. but for that it should be totally fine to have the environment have a pointer to a description of the contents (generated at compile time, so minimal runtime cost) 18:09:46 That's true, that would entail no more consing than currently. 18:10:57 the source locations are suckier, since you need something more fine grained 18:12:23 one option would be to also compute a closure -> source location map at minimal compile time 18:13:33 also pointed to from the env 18:13:37 That's what I'm doing, but since I can't get at the closure, there is nothing to index the map with. 18:14:29 hm. getting at the closure should surely be possible 18:15:36 I've got the closure -> source location map (as a globally bound, weak hash table). 18:18:37 yeah. it seems like a plist per function, pointed to from the environment, might be nicer. weak hash tables are kind of the last resort 18:19:04 If I can get at the closure somehow, that gives me a way of communicating information from the closure compiler to the debugger. 18:19:52 OK. That shouldn't be a difficult change. 18:20:35 Funcallable instances are less efficient to funcall than closures, I guess? 18:21:43 yes, there's an extra indirection 18:25:45 argh, I don't have sbcl source on this laptop. impossible to browse through the debugger without slime :-) 18:27:07 *stassats* is undecided whether speeding up AREF by 1.5 times by storing accessor address in the wide-tag is worth it or not 18:27:22 that's 64-bit only, right? 18:27:23 it makes it just twice as slow as typed aref 18:27:37 jsnell: 32-bit can be encoded as offsets from nil-value 18:28:17 benkard: but basically if the closure weren't available in the debugger, the debugger couldn't show information about closed over variables 18:28:25 and I'm pretty sure it does 18:28:48 Hmmmm. 18:32:22 Much of the debugger is black magic to me, I must admit. 18:33:49 it takes a long time to decipher. so I'll verify that we really can get the closure identity 18:35:21 *stassats* feels the pain of having to handle constant arguments in the VOPs manually for optimizations 18:35:31 would be much easier if it were somehow done automatically 18:36:04 benkard: so what do you figure out for next steps, assuming we can get a handle on the closure from the debugger? 18:36:51 yacks [~py@103.6.158.102] has joined #sbcl 18:38:30 Getting variable and argument list information to work (which should work regardless of the closure issue), and making the source location things work. (I'm assuming that most of it is broken, seeing as I can't test it. :)) 18:38:59 I've just modified the evaluator to put the context information into an environment slot. 18:39:20 the source path code did look a bit wonky, seems like it'd at least be missing the toplevel form part of the source path 18:39:49 doing (svref x 0) includes XOR EAX, EAX CMP RDX, RAX and [RBX+RAX*4+1], which could be just TEST RDX, RDX and [RBX+1] 18:40:14 maybe that could be a job for a peep-hole optimizer 18:40:43 benkard: that sounds pretty good. and ansi-tests results are comparable to the real compiler, right? 18:41:08 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-129-92.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 18:41:48 Yes. :) And I've at least done the limited real-world test of using SLIME with the evaluator enabled. 18:43:27 The question is, am I confident enough to run my blog on the evaluator? 18:43:32 haha 18:45:02 excellent. chat again next tuesday? and I'll get you an answer on the closure stuff tomorrow 18:46:56 Now my own comment gets me thinkingthere might be threading issues. (Thinking out aloud now: What guarantees does SBCL make with regard to atomicity of SETQ? Do I need to do anything special to make the atomic operations work? Something to look into sometime.) 18:47:16 Tuesday it is. :) 18:48:46 setq is atomic on simple things (symbol value cells, vector cells, structure instance slots). but don't see where you'd be introducing new atomicity issues? 18:50:16 Vector cells? OK, in that case, there is no problem, I think. 18:51:05 (If SETF of vector cells wasn't atomic, the evaluator's implementation of SETQ of lexical variables wouldn't be either.) 18:54:11 fair enough 18:54:43 implementation of things like the CAS primitives is actually going to be interesting. could see that not working correctly for interpreted code 18:56:25 But do lexicals support CAS at all? I just tried it and it gave me an invalid place to CAS error. 18:57:42 I thought they would have been supported (potentially useful for a closed over variable). but good, that won't be a problem then 19:01:53 Perhaps SETQ of lexicals isn't even atomic. :) 19:13:17 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3757.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:57 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-222-34-9.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 19:15:02 I' 19:15:21 I'm getting an uneasy feeling about D-X closures with implicit value cells and tail-local-calls. 19:18:31 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-239.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:21:28 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@71-222-34-9.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:19 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-41-180.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 19:30:49 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:37:12 I think it's sad that I can't spy on the student evaluations 19:58:40 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-129-92.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:24 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.140.221] has joined #sbcl 20:43:04 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-41-180.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:49:58 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-60-162.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 21:09:51 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 21:23:31 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-93-104-25-56.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 21:25:46 benkard [~benkard@ppp-93-104-25-56.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #sbcl 21:26:16 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.140.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:34:40 let's try to recompile modded sbcl again... 21:36:49 could compilation be faster if I avoid using --fancy? 21:37:05 unlikely 21:37:43 ok 21:37:47 thanks 21:52:40 Faster if you disable threads and unicode, maybe, but if you're already sub fifteen-minute, why bother? 21:53:08 That said, it's time I got out of here. 21:53:11 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:53:25 why bother? when you recompile many times in quick succession 21:53:40 even sub-3 minutes is bothersome 21:57:12 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:53 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:59 do we really need the #+sb-building-contrib crap for building contribs? 22:19:59 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-93-104-25-56.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 22:24:46 benkard [~benkard@ppp-93-104-25-56.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #sbcl 22:36:56 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.46] has joined #sbcl 22:40:23 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:34 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:59 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-93-104-25-56.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 23:05:21 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #sbcl 23:11:24 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 23:30:47 no way 23:30:53 an hour and half of compilation 23:31:08 something's deeply broken about my length... 23:31:20 can you show the diff? 23:31:23 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-dsdcwzwkypktstcr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:31:35 is there a way to generate it via git? 23:31:43 git diff is one way 23:31:54 ok let me try 23:33:40 how can I share it? 23:33:42 gist? 23:33:55 http://paste.lisp.org 23:34:01 k 23:35:09 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138302/raw 23:35:16 why /raw? 23:35:38 I colorized it as Common Lisp by mistake 23:35:59 the result is quite unreadable 23:37:22 let me remake it 23:37:33 no 23:37:38 don't do that 23:37:52 -!- echo-area [~user@111.196.2.211] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:01 it would make sense for %list-length defknown to have the same attributes as LENGTH 23:38:03 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138303 23:38:11 you're polluting my pastes! 23:38:14 too late... 23:39:38 so (foldable flushable dx-safe) ? 23:39:52 that appears to constitute "the same" 23:39:59 nice 23:40:06 what do they do? 23:40:16 magic 23:40:22 I knew it! 23:40:30 I guess is too late here to just argue 23:40:45 I'll start compilation and go to bed 23:40:58 foldable means (%list-length '(1 2 3)) can be substituted with 3 23:41:25 dx-safe means it can be called on dx-allocated lists 23:41:34 and flushable means if the result is unused, it can be discarded 23:41:53 I see 23:42:12 I gave a completely different interpretation to foldable (which didn't make much sense anyway) 23:42:53 yes, it didn't mean that you could fold it and put into the front pocket of your shirt 23:44:05 I'll start recompilation 23:44:12 I'll tell more tomorrow 23:44:39 good night 23:47:10 well, i see the bug 23:47:25 (i list (cdr list)) should be (i list (cdr i)) 23:49:42 Blkt: stop the press! 23:49:46 blimey 23:55:30 stassats: removing asdf-install opens some cans of worms... 23:56:05 people who were using it line up with pitchforks in front of your house? 23:56:21 heh 23:57:05 no, sb-bsd-sockets fails to build, or more precisely sb-bsd-sockets-test because sb-grovel makes some bad assumptions about file locations, I think