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joined #sbcl 09:19:09 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:02:09 pnpuff [~ln@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 10:29:20 -!- pnpuff [~ln@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: bye] 10:45:18 *stassats* stares at MOVEs appearing out of the blue 10:45:45 just register moves, without any need 10:52:35 Perhaps there's a reason down the road. 10:52:52 very insightful, thanks 10:56:23 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #sbcl 10:57:45 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:06:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.188.172] has joined #sbcl 11:06:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.188.172] has quit [Changing host] 11:06:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 11:08:58 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has 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[~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:02:25 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.70.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:03:38 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 16:17:37 -!- pnpuff [~ln@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 16:18:40 pnpuff [~ln@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 16:31:09 christoph_debian [~christoph@ppp-188-174-85-72.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #sbcl 16:31:56 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.70.6] has joined #sbcl 16:39:24 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:53:08 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 17:07:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.70.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:10:21 blimey, now my (typep x 'base-char) doesn't get eliminated when it's known to be a base-char 17:10:47 this eliminator appears to be quite picky 17:14:44 nor does this happen with (mod x) now 17:17:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:17 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 17:34:24 going through all the files in src/compiler/ trying to figure where the code which causes something is residing is the worst 17:44:23 The code in question turning out to reside in src/code/ is surely worse? 17:49:01 probably, but at least at some point you might realize that 17:49:14 if it's in src/compiler, you're stuck searching there 17:49:28 and file-names and categorization doesn't help any 17:53:20 *stassats* narrows his search down to derive-node-type 18:00:26 maybe i just need to add a deftransform which would check if the type needs to be checked 18:06:23 that worked 18:09:01 "think hard" beats "search hard" 18:11:53 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 18:12:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:12:41 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:21:23 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:19 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #sbcl 18:29:19 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:29:30 -!- xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:33:03 xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #sbcl 18:47:22 *stassats* learned about character-set type 18:58:12 careful about the way typep is source transformed: it quickly makes type propagation stupid. 19:00:10 i'm transforming mod-fixnum-p 19:00:53 using already existing ir1-transform-type-predicate 19:03:09 sure. but type propagation only knows about EQL, =, < and >. 19:03:15 and type predicates 19:03:16 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 19:03:43 i also added char-mod-p, so that it doesn't need to unbox the character, but i think a better would be to added an untagged-character primitive type and define char>/< to work on it, then it'll be just `(char< x ,(code-char hi-limit)) 19:04:55 type predicates are defined using define-type-predicate, but it's for simple non-compound types only 19:05:01 so i have to manually define the transform 19:05:05 there is an untagged character primitive type 19:05:17 i meant tagged 19:06:55 robgssp [~user@cpe-24-93-28-218.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 19:07:03 just use the T primitive type, and specify character as the CL type in defknown. 19:08:08 though, that will bring the same situation as with fixnums currently, when sub-optimal VOPs are selected 19:09:00 sure. would be the same thing with a tagged character type. 19:09:18 i was talking about tagged character type above 19:09:42 and t primitive type is basically what i went with for char-mod-p 19:11:00 could there be character-set with more than one pair starting from 0? 19:11:06 i have a hard time imaging that 19:11:41 pairs are canonicalised. 19:12:20 i just thought that if there's, then maybe untagging once and then comparing shorter values is cheaper 19:13:49 is there characterize or some other fixnumize analogue? i went with (logior (ash hi n-widetag-bits) character-widetag) 19:14:20 I don't think there is. 19:14:33 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 19:14:58 tag-character would probably be a better name 19:17:23 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17:33 what happens when i'm using register-in-size :byte, and a particular instruction does not work with such a register? 19:17:41 should byte-reg come into play somewhere? 19:19:21 reg-in-size 19:19:34 I'm sorry, wait what? 19:19:52 i was talking about notes like "In 64-bit mode, r/m8 can not be encoded to access the following byte registers if a REX prefix is used: AH, BH, CH, DH." 19:19:54 oh, you want to be able to tell when you have to work with a > byte sized register? 19:19:58 but then, we wouldn't use REX 19:20:03 we don't use AH, BH, BH and DH. 19:20:23 i wanted to use one recently 19:20:24 register-in-size will map to the low byte version 19:20:56 that's just an example, probably there's no instructions which don't allow lower bytes 19:21:31 for swap-bytes, i wanted to use XCHG AH, AL 19:21:51 it's not that some instructions don't allow upper bytes 19:22:00 but simply that these registers don't exist anymore. 19:22:42 there's a couple old instruction that still supports them, but it's a handful. 19:24:01 but XCHG AH, AL would work with REX, wouldn't it? 19:24:10 there is no REX in that 19:25:14 probably not worth it to add XH just for an external library 19:26:08 you can emit raw bytes if you really care. 19:28:16 do RISC CPUs have such partial registers too? 19:28:57 It's common to have register pairs 19:29:24 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:31 i just thought maybe that's why they have usually more registers than even x86-64, since there's less encoding space for legacy registers 19:30:45 -!- pnpuff [~ln@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:55 they have more registers because that was one of their goals. 19:33:14 i just realized recently that having more registers is not about throwing a bit more silicone, but also an encoding issue 19:33:26 it is mosly an encoding issue. 19:33:45 (also a context switch one) 19:33:58 internally, contemporary x86 have hundreds of registers. 19:34:02 for each core 19:35:52 i should port these mod-fixnum-p to MIPS and see how it feels 19:39:29 so, constraint propagation already doesn't know about mod-fixnum-p 19:39:54 well, yes, that's what i was trying to fix earlier 19:39:55 so we're unable to derive that x if a (mod 128) in (typecase x ((mod 128) ...)) 19:40:49 for mod-fixnum-p, it's not too hard. Just need to add some logic to the constraint pass. I'll see about making that hookable. 19:41:51 but, like I wrote before, source transforming typep can easily make everything stupid. 19:43:15 what would be a better approach? 19:43:37 there's no clear winner right now. 19:43:54 Until there is, I'd tend to be very conservative. 19:44:34 At least for named types. Character types already go through range checks on char-code in general, so a specialised function can only help. 19:45:42 But, for instance, I bet the mod patch broke a bunch of code that dispatches on (unsigned-byte foo). 19:47:17 leuler [~user@p548FD7D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 19:47:37 such an easy optimization, so much problems 19:53:52 the most robust solution will likely be something like wrap typep source transforms into (typep-identity [form] 'type), handle that specially in IFs, and IR2tran. 19:54:40 I feel compelled to correctly describe the high byte register situation: The high byte registers still exist. They can only be accessed if the instruction doesn't use a REX prefix. The same register encoding instead accesses SIL etc. when a REX prefix is there. 19:54:43 (typep-identity [form] [variable] type), in fact. 19:55:03 leuler: for us, they might as well not exist. 19:55:27 Yes, and that is intentionally so. 19:55:34 pkhuong: could that also help with elimination of type tests? 19:55:48 stassats: it will enable constraint to eliminate redundant type tests. 19:55:59 because i had to add a transform to mod-fixnum-p to do that 19:56:07 stassats: what? 19:56:25 I see what you mean. 19:56:35 Sure. It could be done. 19:56:39 (defun (x) (declare ((mod 30) x)) (typep x '(mod 30))) wasn't folded to T 19:58:13 handling it in one place will make things simple and save space on transforms 19:58:23 leuler: In fact, I think I remember some AMD uarch for which high byte access was a latency hazard. 19:58:32 So, one might extend the assembler to allow xchg ah, al to be emitted, but I would prefer if that wasn't done. How about using rol ax, 8, provided that it doesn't matter that that modifies the flags? 19:58:49 leuler: I think intel recommends exhg 19:58:53 *xchg 19:59:31 You could code the specific case as a one-off instruction if necessary? 19:59:46 nyef: raw bytes ;) 19:59:59 i will need to ask fe[nl]ix how important swap-bytes-16 on 64-bit is for him 20:00:34 and would having a slightly faster version be worth it 20:01:42 pkhuong: Been there, done that. I think it was when I wanted to PUSH the address of a FIXUP as a literal value. 20:02:24 pkhuong: Re latency: I don't remember having seen anything which wasn't subsumed by the general disadvantages of partial register writes, that is, dependency on the whole register's contents. Which doesn't matter when the operation reads and writes parts of the same 64-bit register. 20:04:18 anyway, for me, high byte registers don't exist, in the same way that xlat and aad don't. 20:05:41 I agree, for SBCL they don't exist. 20:05:45 what about ax-tn? 20:05:56 yes, what about it? 20:06:05 do they exist for pkhuong 20:06:47 x86-64 doesn't use them, x86 in a couple of places 20:07:24 wait, i should grep :word too 20:10:39 We don't want to use AH etc. because of the restrictions regarding the REX prefix which would make the compiler too complicated (say, it would need to know that an operation on AH and SIL can't be encoded). Using RAX, EAX, AX, AL and correspondingly for all 16 registers is very regular and thus fine (for me). 20:10:42 Nobody may have needed 16-bit registers so far on x86-64. 20:15:59 grepping for :word is inconclusive 20:21:21 stassats: Do you search only for the "?x-tn"s? If not, two examples are: 16-bit array and sap accesses use reg-in-size to access 16-bit registers. (I grepped for reg-in-size) 20:21:57 i searched for x-tn and for :word, but mostly indirect usage 20:34:32 -!- leuler [~user@p548FD7D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.6 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:48:09 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 20:51:19 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 21:10:54 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:11:11 rpg [~rpg@c-71-63-247-69.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 21:24:55 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #sbcl 21:32:32 Klaufir_ [~admin@109.232.224.97] has joined #sbcl 21:32:45 -!- Klaufir_ [~admin@109.232.224.97] has left #sbcl 21:44:17 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:06 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af50bca.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:10:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:01 drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-166-147-108-182.mycingular.net] has joined #sbcl 22:20:59 -!- rpg [~rpg@c-71-63-247-69.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:22:15 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #sbcl 22:25:47 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.70.6] has joined #sbcl 22:31:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-166-147-108-182.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:16 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 23:00:50 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-dhkpkicicrwwbcmw] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:01:14 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-tdyymjknogdfkowe] has joined #sbcl 23:01:36 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 23:04:40 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.70.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:06:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:24 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #sbcl 23:30:53 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:30:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:31:54 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-tdyymjknogdfkowe] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:33:08 asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.16] has joined #sbcl 23:33:32 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-txpygwjytydkbeik] has joined #sbcl 23:34:38 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl