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ZZZzzz] 10:47:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 10:47:58 on x86-64, do we ever have objects with MSB of 1 which aren't fixnums? 10:49:31 trying to optimize (integer -x power-of-two) 11:01:54 that's out of our hands in the long term, no? the OS could just move the stack there at some point 11:05:57 optimizing just (integer +x +power-of-two) isn't as useful, but (signed-byte x) could be tested the same way as (unsigned-byte x) now is, i.e. testing the higher limit and fixnumness in one go with TEST A, (lognot X), but for negative numbers, it breaks down 11:08:03 it only works with ZF=0 and SF=OF, where OF is set unconditionally to 0 in TEST 11:11:26 maybe there is a use case for (integer +x +power-of-two) tests? 11:12:03 +power-of-two-1, that is 11:13:59 *stassats* managed to convince himself to buy hacker's delight yesterday, and unsurprisingly haven't found anything insightful for this 11:15:57 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 11:21:05 hargettp [~hargettp@c-76-119-233-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 11:22:40 hi segv- 11:30:14 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@c-76-119-233-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:33:15 hi fe[nl]ix 11:33:17 how's it going? 11:34:06 rather well :) 11:34:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:44 -!- Blkt [~Blkt@2a01:4f8:150:80a1::aaaa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:35:13 Blkt [~Blkt@2a01:4f8:150:80a1::aaaa] has joined #sbcl 11:35:15 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #sbcl 11:36:22 -!- psilord [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46:16 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-85-27.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #sbcl 11:46:52 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:05 stassats: take a look at the errata pages, too. 11:54:32 flip214: that's a new edition 11:55:01 oh, with all the stuff already put in? 11:55:12 i would assume 11:55:21 ah, sept 2012 11:56:12 got the kindle one 11:57:28 ouch, not much cheaper 11:58:42 17$ is an alright saving 11:58:57 you can by a book for 17$! 11:59:47 it's certainly worth its money, but I still believe it should be cheaper - no paper, no hassle, only a few bits flying around. 12:00:07 somebody should be writing it too 12:00:31 and it being a specialist material, hard to become a new york times bestseller 12:00:32 of course! 12:01:01 there should be more people buying tech literature, then it'd be cheaper 12:01:03 that's where the ideas of fixed basic income come into play, I guess 12:04:09 hrm. $44, £33, 39? kindle $31, 24 12:04:59 $43 vs 26$ here 12:06:25 -!- kanru` [~kanru@114-42-12-29.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:33 most probably because of the shipment costs 12:21:10 _8hzp` [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has joined #sbcl 12:21:28 -!- _8hzp [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:41 loke [~loke_@42.61.218.195] has joined #sbcl 12:27:27 is there any reason for >= for floats to do two comparisons? > and = 12:27:41 stassats: nans. 12:28:15 but we should be emitting >= that does one ucomisd and two conditional jumps. 12:28:56 but the comparison is exactly the same 12:29:25 conditions for jumps are different 12:29:26 no. NaNs. 12:29:29 man, x86 really have an overwhelming number of operations 12:29:44 is it actually possible to fully know its instruction set 12:29:45 ? 12:30:21 pro tip: no one uses AAD or XLAT, except when golfing. 12:30:38 pkhuong: how doing COMISD XMM0, [RIP+XX] twice handles NaNs? 12:30:40 The subset of x86 that sees actual use is fairly regular. 12:30:51 stassats: [08:27] < pkhuong> but we should be emitting >= that does one ucomisd and two conditional jumps. 12:31:28 -!- _8hzp` [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:32:58 and what happens with what do you mean? 12:33:25 < does one comparison 12:33:57 what makes >= susceptible to NaNs and < not 12:33:58 yes. There is no >= flag. There's one flag for <, one for =, one for >. 12:34:31 what if we just invert the test? 12:34:33 So for >=, you have to test for > and =. You can't just test on (not <). 12:35:09 stassats: because of NaNs. 12:36:33 -!- loke [~loke_@42.61.218.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:19 loke_erc [~user@42.61.218.195] has joined #sbcl 12:37:51 so, UCOMISS for comparing with constants, and COMISS otherwise? 12:39:13 stassats: how does that help? 12:40:10 i misinterpreted what "source operand" means, they both are sources 12:40:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 12:42:07 so, you're saying to use UCOMISS because we don't care about quiet NaNs? 12:43:05 no, sorry, we should use comisd. I 12:43:12 m just used to other codegen 12:43:30 if we use comisd, there's little reason to change that. 12:43:31 ok 12:43:32 13:21:03 jarod_ch_ [~jarod_che@115.192.184.61] has joined #sbcl 13:27:48 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 13:32:44 davazp [~user@204.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #sbcl 13:46:53 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:49:21 The &more optimization of &rest lists is really nice. 13:51:11 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:57:06 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 13:58:11 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 14:01:06 psilord [~pkeller@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 14:19:37 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #sbcl 15:16:20 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:17:16 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:19:06 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #sbcl 15:21:17 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 15:26:49 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:28:00 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 15:37:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-84-187.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:51:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:53:43 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 16:09:26 -!- davazp [~user@204.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:25 *stassats* decided to collect some stats on what are the most common numeric type checks: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138073 16:45:30 that excludes primitive type tests 16:45:57 unsurprisingly, sb-int:index wins 16:47:34 even more, if combined with index/2 and index-1 16:58:51 Isn't "index" the same as "non-negative fixnum"? 16:59:05 nope 17:02:43 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:03:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 17:03:57 "3 less" 17:05:31 Ahh. 17:05:40 Right, word index, plus slot overhead on an array. 17:05:59 which makes it a bit difficult to type-check 17:07:10 it's not a power of two and a large number, which needs to be used as an inline constant 17:07:11 Mmm. But I'm now wondering if it's explicit within the code that the maximum value for an index is derived based on the size of a fixnum and the... uh-oh. 17:07:29 -!- pipping [~pipping@exherbo/developer/pipping] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:07:30 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:07:31 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host199-226-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:07:54 Shouldn't index be substantially smaller on 64-bit platforms depending on the value of n-fixnum-tag-bits? 17:08:23 i'm sure on x86-64 it can be pegged to the nearest power-of-two 17:08:31 nyef: "should", there's no consideration if the limits make sense or not 17:09:04 Of course, there never was. 17:09:25 Isn't call-args-limit larger than the per-thread stack allocation? 17:09:50 m-p-f as well 17:10:05 pipping [~pipping@exherbo/developer/pipping] has joined #sbcl 17:10:05 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #sbcl 17:10:05 Posterdati [~antani@host199-226-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #sbcl 17:11:36 And, again, having that at m-p-f with n-fixnum-tag-bits less than half n-lowtag-bits means that it exceeds the logical (nevermind physical) address space of the CPU. 17:17:22 "may be as low as 2 (for 30-bit fixnums) and as high as 2 (for 30-bit fixnums)." reads a bit strange 17:24:43 loke_erc` [~user@42.61.218.195] has joined #sbcl 17:26:49 That's the 32-bit version, isn't it? The 64-bit version should go as high as 3 and default as low as 1. 17:27:37 right, but "limited to 2" would be easier to understand 17:27:55 Blkt_ [~Blkt@2a01:4f8:150:80a1::aaaa] has joined #sbcl 17:28:03 Oh, and we did the analysis as to what the impact would be for trying to get 31-bit fixnums on 32-bit hardware was, and it wasn't pretty, but looked more-or-less doable. 17:28:30 lacedaemon [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #sbcl 17:28:47 reb`` [user@nat/google/x-alvldosivfghkbux] has joined #sbcl 17:29:35 nyef: Is there really that important to optimise for 32-bit these days? 17:32:42 All the world is not a VAX^H^H^Hx86-64. 17:33:26 nyef: INDEX is a restriction in the spec. 17:33:29 Most ARM systems, for example, are 32-bit. Some netbooks are probably still 32-bit... 17:33:36 pkhuong: Ah, fair enough. 17:34:04 we have a fixnum *limit*, so a valid index must be less than m-p-f. 17:34:57 -!- loke_erc [~user@42.61.218.195] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:34:57 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:34:57 -!- Blkt [~Blkt@2a01:4f8:150:80a1::aaaa] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:34:58 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-ehkkobguommuuelf] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:35:23 using (mod 2305843009213693952) instead saves 8 bytes, but no measurable speed difference 17:39:52 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-85-27.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 17:40:04 If you have a fixnum that's "close" to the most-positive limit, can you compare with a negative number and check for overflow as a bounds-check? 17:40:23 Overflow or a negative result. Something like that. 17:40:32 I guess you could. 17:41:23 i thought about that before, don't remember the conclusion i concluded 17:41:24 two branches though. Is it that much better than a single ja/jbe? 17:41:31 If it's an improvement, it'd cover INDEX without affecting index, plus also help with user-defined types (what few there would be with such limits)... 17:44:59 btw, assuming that modular arithmetic is eventually OK, do you see any reason not to enable it for integer +/- that cancel large values into small ones? 17:46:45 Might want to make it policy-dependent, as it could confuse people trying to debug code. 17:47:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:49:23 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:50:17 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 17:51:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:52:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 18:04:43 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #sbcl 18:08:22 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[Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:45 ASau````` [~user@p4FF96152.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 18:39:10 -!- ASau```` [~user@p5797F506.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:57:37 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 19:01:21 -!- psilord [~pkeller@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:07:40 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 19:25:46 -!- loke_erc` [~user@42.61.218.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:26 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 19:40:34 what is the preferred way of submitting relatively minor improvements like documentation/comment fixes/extensions, small-scale rewrites for improving clarity and/or resolving FIXMEs and such? 19:41:01 launchpad 19:42:02 like "Wishlist: rewrite FROB-FOO for improved clarity"? 19:42:37 with attached patch? 19:42:58 "Wishlist" as the status 19:43:13 and the tag "review" 19:43:25 scymtym: if no one acts on it within a couple days, LP is less likely to be forgotten than a mailing post. 19:44:21 stassats, pkhuong: thanks, i may submit a few such "bugs" in the future 19:48:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:00 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #sbcl 20:06:37 sdemarre [~serge@54.166-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #sbcl 20:13:51 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-232.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 20:23:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:40 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #sbcl 20:36:20 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:26 -!- sdemarre [~serge@54.166-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:20:45 -!- nyef 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