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push them to a github/gitorious fork? 09:20:47 asking for myself as well as for the potentially vast number of GSoC students 09:21:28 can't they be pushed to the upstream? 09:21:41 or is sf.net so bad? 09:22:02 for myself, yes; for GSoC students not sure. 09:22:29 as for sf.net, well, today is also the day that I might try to "upgrade" the project so I kind of want my development safe elsewhere... 09:22:43 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22:44 i push my branches to my github sbcl 09:27:29 I github and tell people that i'm rewriting history on it. 09:29:02 and to bootstrap, did you just fork the github mirror? 09:29:19 i did 09:29:24 sbcl/sbcl 09:30:55 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #sbcl 09:32:23 fine. I shall try 09:32:47 Krystof: you can also start from your own git repo 09:34:16 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #sbcl 09:36:10 why is it that I still feel like a git newbie? 09:46:34 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-201-217.uio.no] has joined #sbcl 09:59:19 sbcl upstream has so many strange branches 09:59:40 -!- urgosum [~urgosum@host86-168-219-232.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:59:48 stassats: inherited from ye olde cvs days. 10:00:10 when-all-you-have-is-a-hammer-branch 10:00:20 dan_b had good branch naming skills 10:00:25 hammer was the old codename for amd64 10:00:33 I also like the atropos branch 10:01:12 *stassats* deleted all the branches from his fork, so that it's easier to see my branches 10:09:01 stassats: resistance-is-futex 10:17:33 *attila_lendvai1* will be a git newbie forever, even after learning how to amend specific patches down in the history... 10:17:40 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 10:18:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.3.91] has quit [Changing host] 10:18:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 10:30:16 attila_lendvai: we (still!) need an ex-darcs-users support group ;) 10:31:07 luis: noooo, I'll never surrender to git! :) 10:31:51 the interface I've been using at work lets me amend random patches but it still feels quite clumsy compared to darcs. :-) 10:32:12 I'll sit this out until structure editors and graph diffing becomes viable (e.g. https://github.com/projectured/projectured ) 10:34:58 luis: magit and git rebase -i between them make me feel less newbieish 10:48:44 I don't feel that much of a newbie anymore. I championed using git at work and that forced me learn more git than I'd originally wanted since I'm the "git guy". :) 10:49:50 magit is slow as hell on Windows and our main repository is pretty huge. 10:58:18 I'm inspecting a FUNCTION object, and I see the slot called NEXT. What is the purpose of this slot? Is there a linked list of all functions in the Lisp image? 10:59:55 loke: no, only in a single component. 11:00:59 pkhuong: Oh, so locally defined anonymous functions? 11:02:32 loke: or named local ones. 11:03:06 pkhuong: I see. What is this used for? 11:03:39 introspection for sure. 11:03:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:03:49 Probably GC, to look for interior code pointers 11:06:40 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.165.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:08:03 -!- echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:45 luis: haha, i happened to become the "git" guy the same way... 11:11:15 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.150.150] has joined #sbcl 11:11:15 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.150.150] has quit [Changing host] 11:11:15 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 11:13:04 If I want to find an SBCL issue to fix (I've never committed to SBCL before), where should I look in the bug database? There are 558 results. Any particular filter I should apply? 11:13:47 I wrote about this not long ago. 11:14:11 On your blog? 11:14:36 and on sbcl-devel. 11:14:57 Ah. I should subscribe to that one 11:16:23 Krystof: re unicode composition, given the composition, can you tell if it corresponds to the two codepoints given as input? 11:19:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.229] has joined #sbcl 11:19:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.229] has quit [Changing host] 11:19:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 11:19:30 -!- wasao [~matsu@119-47-43-146.ppp.bbiq.jp] has left #sbcl 11:23:34 pkhuong: oh, hey, good point 11:24:04 is that a yes or a no? 11:24:09 foom: hope all is well for you this morning. 11:24:22 pkhuong: it's a "possibly, but if we can it fixes a lot of problems" 11:24:38 ah ok. If not, then I don't see how the bipartite graph can be a useful model. 11:26:40 I think yes. For all pairs of characters (a,b) that have a primary composition c, it is true that decompose(c) = a+b 11:27:09 and is it easy to compute the decomposition? 11:27:32 at the moment yes. the snag is that I am in the process of removing the decompose operation, because decompose is applied recursively in a trivial way in toNFD(c) = fixpoint(decompose,c) 11:27:41 so. Hm. 11:29:40 *Krystof* finds a paper on addition of sets of integers 11:30:12 annoyingly, it proves on how to construct sets with the smallest rather than largest cardinality 11:31:01 a perfect hash table is what you want, I think. 11:31:15 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:36:53 "complementing sets of order n" 11:36:54 hmm 11:39:48 (looking at "Addition theorems for sets of integers" 11:41:59 cuckoo is worst case 2 lookups and 2 decompositions, best case 1 each. two-level perfect hash table is 2 lookups and 1 decomposition, always. Both are linear space, with a load factor easily on the order of 90+%. I'll just leave these numbers here ;) 11:43:45 NO FUN 11:45:26 ... but two-level tables need a bit of auxiliary data. 11:48:06 there's a sentence somewhere in Jaynes Probability Theory which is roughly "for every randomized algorithm, there's a much better carefully designed algorithm which simply depends on the right insight" 11:48:58 Still waiting for that better deterministic primality test ;) 11:49:11 boo 11:50:09 in fact, I'm pretty sure that if that's right, we have quite the collapse in complexity classes, including very big interactive ones. 11:53:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-21.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 11:54:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:55:25 I may have overstated the strength with which he put it 11:55:48 I think he was arguing against random sampling of functions (as compared with grid sampling) 11:56:08 errors decreasing as 1/sqrt(N) vs 1/N 11:58:25 "It appears to be a quite general principle that, whenever there is a randomized way of doing something, then there is a nonrandomized way that delivers better performance but requires more thought." 11:58:55 IOW, P=IP=PSPACE, we just have to think hard ;) 12:02:35 wait, no, that's a bit too large a collapse (: 12:03:17 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-21.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 12:05:31 (that'd be NP=IP=PSPACE) 12:05:44 -!- kanru` [~kanru@106.Red-83-46-193.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:09:46 your google book search is better than mine 12:10:24 still stuck on understanding exactly what Theorem 1 says, because I think it is the answer to my problem. Requires More Thought. 12:13:03 Got it! Lunch time 12:14:34 Seems to me if you want a single pair of A, B s.t. C = A+B is uniquely represented (i.e. |C|=|A||B|), you can just let A=[0..|A|), and B=|A|[0..|B|). 12:16:57 but we're only interested in {a+b| (a,b)\in P \subset A\times B} (also, if you do figure something out, it might be useful for method dispatch :) 12:17:12 yes, but that's equivalent to one same-sized array per A 12:17:28 that's the 70x459 case (very thinly loaded for 1000 actual entries) 12:17:40 Krystof: but that's what that paper is about. It considers C = A+B, not a subset of the pairs. 12:18:08 yes, so what I will do is find the least C such that I can make my sets A + B with desired cardinality 12:18:16 famous last words 12:19:03 cardinalities of the A, B sets can be derived from theorem 1 (to do with products of (m_i - 1) I think) 12:19:03 you might have better luck with a non-commutative operator. 12:19:17 but now I need lunch. 12:25:07 kanru` [~kanru@106.red-83-46-193.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #sbcl 12:30:42 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 12:34:34 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:25 leuler [~user@p548F8503.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 12:52:22 Sorry to warm up the github discussion from earlier today: I have SBCL cloned in my github account too and removed all branches except master and my own ones. 12:52:22 leuler, memo from pkhuong: So, AFAICT, the only thing where sxhash performance is really critical is for symbols, and that's basically a cache lookup. Given the overhead of full call + type dispatch (+ actual hash table management), I'm thinking we could just always use a solid block hash function, even on 64-bit blocks. 12:52:30 Does anybody know how I can edit the repository description like Nikodemus did to get this nice warning about "anything may be rebased at any time" in there? 12:52:49 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.86.72] has joined #sbcl 12:53:09 I just clicked on the Edit button around there 12:53:51 I don't see one, maybe I need to enable Javascript for more domains or cookies. Trying. 12:54:49 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 12:55:11 I have to hover over the text 12:56:47 Found it. I stupidly was in sbcl/sbcl instead of leuler/sbcl. Read-only access there, obviously. Thanks, Krystof. 12:56:50 (bother now I understand pkhuong's point about |C|=|A||B| but I still think there's an escape clause somewhere) 13:00:37 <|3b|> do you need to be able to calculate mapping at runtime, or could you just brute force it and store a table? 13:01:15 no, brute force and store (for unicode decomposition -- not for method dispatch obviously) 13:05:06 pkhuong: Regarding sxhash: A solid block hash function sounds nice. Cryptographically secure even, or, like other languages' implementors do, siphash for strings and something faster and less secure for other things? 13:12:53 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #sbcl 13:14:35 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.86.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:26 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:28:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:36 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-66-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 13:45:46 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:46:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:37 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:53:36 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:57:28 leuler: I was thinking siphash or one-at-a-time for everything ;) 13:58:28 ok, I am going to compromise. I think I can get the table size down to 7198 elements (which seems like a lot for 1000 entries but in fact of course it is important to record "no composition" as an entry) 13:59:08 Krystof: well, no composition could just be a miss ;) 13:59:46 right, but I need the space to record the absence of entry 13:59:58 yes, if I could get all the misses to collide... 14:00:42 Krystof: again, if you're OK with verifying that the composition is correct, we only need to make sure compositions don't collide. 14:01:19 true 14:02:33 leuler: also I was thinking we could use string hashes for pointer data as well, instead of mixing around a single fixnum of state. 14:08:22 <|3b|> Krystof: is the data available somewhere? 14:08:36 -!- kanru` [~kanru@106.red-83-46-193.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:10:33 |3b|: it's all in Unicode data files 14:10:58 you need UnicodeData.txt in the sbcl repository, as well as CompositionExclusions.txt (or DerivedNormalizationProperties.txt) 14:11:20 Need to warm up another theme first: Regarding CMOV often not being faster than branching: See: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.arch/V4NP3gqeDcc/crgrv3JbNmQJ Short excerpt: "And often the true superscalar limit is not number of 14:11:20 instructions, but number of register reads." 14:15:44 thanks. It's too bad Glew has been posting a lot less lately. 14:19:34 scymtym_ [~user@ip-5-147-116-166.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #sbcl 14:25:44 pkhuong: Re string hashing for pointer data. I don't understand. Obviously one can use a string hash for a short string, say 8 bytes, for example a pointer. The advantage is: same hash for everything. The disadvantage? There may be faster hash functions optimized for 8 bytes that are as good? Or what are you thinking of? 14:27:43 Wait, you hinted to the size of the internal state of the hash function. Are there any theoretical or practically known advantages to have a larger state when hashing 64 bits -> 64 bits? 14:35:52 Krystof: http://paste.lisp.org/+2XJO 14:36:19 leuler: I mean for data that we descend into, like arrays or conses. 14:37:16 leuler: I was also considering using the same hash for 64 -> 64, but only because that's less code. 14:39:17 pkhuong: I see. 14:40:12 nyef: did you solve your problem of yesterday with that macro ? 14:40:55 davazp [~user@178.167.196.252.threembb.ie] has joined #sbcl 14:41:31 pkhuong: I'm fine with all that. 14:45:26 Anyway, I ran a couple loops, and it looks like the majority (~75%) of the runtime for sxhash comes from the type dispatch. Given that, I'm not sure there's *too much* point in trying to get single-word to hash faster. 14:58:34 (for immediate data, that is) 15:27:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:41 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 15:32:53 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-201-217.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:34:08 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 16:03:01 akovalen` [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #sbcl 16:04:32 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko` 16:06:17 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:05 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #sbcl 16:59:43 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-206-31.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 17:00:56 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-206-31.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:05:27 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-206-31.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 17:16:44 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-164-161-162.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 17:17:00 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@75-164-161-162.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:18:09 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-164-161-162.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 17:19:00 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-206-31.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:20:06 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 17:23:19 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 17:33:58 tcr1 [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 17:44:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:53 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:44:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:49:25 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:54:04 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-161-162.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:55:57 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-182.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 19:11:36 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host163-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:13:55 Posterdati [~antani@host215-229-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #sbcl 19:17:13 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.196.252.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:42 -!- Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:30:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.229] has joined #sbcl 19:30:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.229] has quit [Changing host] 19:30:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 19:35:44 i am looking at bug 806398 and there was a started patch and suggested improvements to it which do not seem to have been implemented. the notes and initial patch seems to be a good place for me to start but i would like to know if this is an acceptable ettiquete in this situation 19:35:49 lp 806398 19:35:50 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/806398 19:36:47 luis: have you had time to work on lp#806398 since december 2011? (: 19:37:38 pkhuong: time? probably. :) 19:39:22 luis: so, does nicdev have your blessing? Any tips or insight you can remember? 19:39:40 the idea to pick it up again has occurred to me just this week, but I haven't done much about it other than reread the log 19:40:04 nicdev: I'm personally more concerned with duplicated work than anything else. The ultimate goal is to get that stuff in the repository. 19:40:14 nicdev: oh, go for it, definitely. 19:41:15 nicdev: getting full attribution right in the commit message is always a good idea, of course. 19:41:34 nicdev: I should get email about it if you want to discuss anything in that bug. The insight should be contained in Nikodemus's reply. :) 19:42:38 Hmm, that first sentence wasn't very clear. I meant that if you send questions or anything to that bug, I will get an email about it, and I will try to help you. 19:46:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-182.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:47:59 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-216-203.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 19:49:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:53:32 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host215-229-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:57:50 luis: thanks, i will keep you posted 20:02:51 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.221] has joined #sbcl 20:23:41 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-66-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:38 ... why do we have *two* list length VOPs again? (: 20:26:57 davazp [~user@92.251.223.55.threembb.ie] has joined #sbcl 20:34:06 Krystof: do you think was fixed some time in the past 4 years? I can't even find that assertion anywhere. 20:37:27 it's the kind of thing that could have been fixed, yes 20:38:52 I don't remember consciously fixing it; nikodemus might have 20:38:57 might also be masked by lazy finalization 20:39:19 sdemarre [~serge@74.67-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #sbcl 20:42:37 pkhuong: I suggest pushing the patch for the modarith constant replacement bug, unless you have reason not to 20:42:48 yeah. I will... 20:43:20 As soon as I'm done dealing with the email queue of doom. 20:43:33 ok. 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