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05:48:06 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #sbcl 06:04:46 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.78] has joined #sbcl 06:07:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:10:35 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #sbcl 06:29:45 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 06:30:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has joined #sbcl 06:30:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has quit [Changing host] 06:30:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 06:34:31 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 06:36:19 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:02 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #sbcl 06:48:58 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.15.53] has joined #sbcl 06:48:58 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.15.53] has quit [Changing host] 06:48:58 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 06:57:58 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 07:01:49 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 07:02:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:03:09 quick compilation seems to be a hit 07:25:39 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 07:53:09 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:55:50 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 07:56:43 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:57:55 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:58:15 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 08:08:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-221-81.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:26:15 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 08:26:52 Krystof: scavenge interrupt_context as registers + each [SP,SP] range. 08:27:00 *[SP, FP] 08:30:54 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #sbcl 08:33:36 well, preserve, rather than scavenge. 08:39:22 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:42 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has left #sbcl 09:41:24 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-127.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 10:10:16 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:14:48 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:36 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 10:44:32 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 10:44:32 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 10:45:09 o/ 10:52:53 welcome back nikodemus! 10:53:38 I believe you had some stuff on quicker compilation? Is there any preliminary branch, patch set or notes I should point people to? 11:01:44 pkhuong: not as such 11:02:09 i can write a quick braindump 11:02:37 IIRC. the biggest timesink is constraint propagation. 11:03:17 IIRC. the trickiest thing about eliminating it is that we have a bunch of places that assume that certain things are always optimized. 11:03:47 so if you eliminate it, you get "correct" code that the rest of the system cannot deal with 11:05:22 being a silly young thing, i was working on essentially adding IR0 which would have been a fast way to get those minimal things sorted out. I still think that's possible, but it probably isn't the best way to go about it... 11:07:04 i think it would be a reasonable approach to just diable it, and see where things break, and start fixing the places that make those assumptions 11:07:13 EOBD 11:07:25 s/diable/disable/ 11:09:46 sounds right to me as well. 11:12:29 So, I see where constraint propagation can be simplified... we need quick but conservative type union/intersection... csubtypep as well, I guess. 11:13:54 Then, see what happens to the transforms, and play whack-a-mole. 11:13:54 IIRC a typical breaked is from eg (coerce x 'list) => (the list (if (listp x) x (convert-to-list x))) sort of transforms 11:14:42 how does that break? 11:15:15 don't remember the details. maybe when X is known not to be a list due to a declaration? 11:16:06 so you end up with something like (the list (the (not list) x)) 11:16:12 which the compiler won't like 11:16:17 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.135.45] has joined #sbcl 11:16:17 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.135.45] has quit [Changing host] 11:16:17 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 11:16:57 or maybe it was IR1-OPTIMIZE that was needed to kill the IF 11:17:03 oh yeah. 11:17:58 constraints need ir1 optimise to kill (if [x] [block] [same block]) into (progn [x] [block]) 11:19:04 and (if [always false] [will cause a runtime error] [ok])? 11:19:37 because some of the breakaged were WARNINGs due to compiler thinking it sees something that will break at runtime for sure 11:19:45 breakages, even 11:19:50 I think that's all right, wrt codegen. I changed that to style warnings because of ppcre 11:20:14 oh 11:20:48 If there's a branch on the path (well, it's a hack, but catches most cases), the warning is downgraded to a style warning. 11:21:12 right 11:21:40 then there are our always-translatable things, i guess 11:22:33 shouldn't we get nearly all of those right just with the defknowned types? 11:22:34 and many many transforms which should not be done unless we're actually going to compile things as well as we can 11:22:48 most, i think 11:23:00 there's that. workingness would be a good first step though (: 11:23:15 and the rest should probably not be always-translatable, but something like mostly-translatable :) 11:23:20 right. 11:24:00 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 11:24:19 yeah, and eliminating transforms is the completely wrong first step, because /almost/ any problematic code a transform can inject can also come from a user 11:25:03 though i'm willing to give a pass to eliminating transforms that produce (sb-foo:%something-magic ...) if they turn out to be a problem 11:25:40 yes and no... We could only run CP once. User code would benefit from minimal constraints, but deftransformed code not. 11:26:13 sure, but in deep CMUCL time CP used to be completely optional 11:26:19 i'd sort of like to restore that 11:26:25 right. 11:26:33 oops. make that "would like to see that restored" :) 11:27:13 Also, our transforms go out of their way to depend on CP: expand into a lambda without type declaration on the arguments? 11:28:05 the deftransform could magically add most of the type information there, i think 11:28:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:28:51 (a case for truly-type declaration?) 11:29:05 :) 11:30:31 also, do you think you'll have time to mentor that project? 11:31:02 is there a page where expected role of gsoc mentor is explained? 11:32:00 i'm a bit hesitant. OTOH, i have a lot of overtime i'm going to take off during the summer... OTOH i might not be very reachable during that period 11:32:47 and when i'm not on vacation, i'm going to be a busy beaver at work because everyone *else* will be on vacation... :) 11:37:05 https://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors <- sounds a lot like getting an undergraduate summer intern (: 11:40:44 Check up on them to see how they're doing, but mostly help them get started (and to persist in the face of failure), both wrt to getting code working and becoming part of the project's regular workflow. 11:42:21 the timeline is start of june -> end of august? 11:45:40 looking at http://people.gnome.org/~federico/docs/summer-of-code-mentoring-howto/index.html this is not a realistic time commitment for me 11:46:42 i think i can budget something like 2h/week reliably. if i promise more, risk of flaking on /my/ part increases dramatically 11:48:35 so i think the answer is a regretful no. i'll be happy to provide support, but i don't think it would be too wise to count on the availability of that support 11:48:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 11:49:47 if things look bad and no-one else is volunteering, i can be do it, but that doesn't magically increase the time i'll be available 11:50:12 I expect we won't have too many slots anyway. Are you OK with being CCed a lot on a project? 11:50:20 sure! 11:51:32 i stumbled on (if [always false] [will cause a runtime error] [ok]) with *check-consistency* enabled 11:54:27 i wish it were google winter of code, because who wants to sit near the computer when the sun is shining 11:57:22 students? :) 11:58:47 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 11:59:07 I had an office with a window as an undergrad... almost as good (: Also most of the work usually consists of thinking hard and working on paper. 12:00:32 nikodemus: i meant from a mentoring perspective, contemplated applying too 12:03:02 maybe we should have an explicit potential-support-squad of flaky non-mentors... 12:04:32 we definitely should, even if only on IRC. 12:10:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:15:49 apropos, who'se coming to eclm/els? i see only david and myself in registrants from sbcl hackers 12:16:50 when/where is it? I recently found out I'll be coming back in europe this summer 12:17:20 ecml is Sunday, June 2; but there's a dinner on June 1 as well 12:17:25 in Madrid 12:17:47 http://weitz.de/eclm2013/ 12:18:07 argh, no go. I'll be on the wrong coast of NA the day before. 12:18:13 els is in the same place Mon/Tue of the next week, but their registration isn't open yet 12:19:33 fair enough. should we retry the meetup we didn't manage last summer? i'm game coming down to central europe during summer, or i can provide a lake, cabin, and sauna here in Finland :) 12:24:02 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 12:24:23 *stassats* likes the finland idea, because it's closer than madrid 12:29:19 and just as i want to add something to sbcl internals cliki, it's down 12:29:59 add it to internals manual instead? 12:31:35 it was more of "what i found out while trying to fix bug X" 12:31:48 rather informal 12:33:38 add doc/DIARY? :) 12:34:07 "dear diary, ir2 is killing me" 12:35:26 *stassats* is trying to understand what stack.lisp is doing 12:35:49 in specifics or in abstract? 12:36:04 both 12:38:02 in abstract: figuring out the stack effects of a call or exit node (mostly those IIRC), and arranging for "necessary actions" to be taken 12:38:36 yeah, i arrived at that conclusion yesterday while falling asleep 12:38:54 so for example if a function return is going to leave gunk on the stack and live values on top of those, it's going to arrange for nip-values to take the gunk out 12:39:14 in details... no really. i once almost understood it 12:39:38 if i tried to understand it again, i'd probably arm myself with a big while paper and draw a lot 12:39:57 s/no really/not really/ 12:40:07 so, nip-values just removes the values arranged for returning on the stack? 12:40:11 and what does pop-values do? 12:40:25 or does pop-values remove the values? 12:40:49 i don't rememeber -- let me take a look at the vop 12:41:45 the code where it inserts pop-values: (lambda (x) (block nil (multiple-value-prog1 (funcall x) (if (plusp (funcall x)) (print x) (return))))) 12:42:07 so i understand that multiple-value-prog1 arranges for the values to be stored on the stack for returning, and RETURN might foil it 12:42:12 pop-values resets the stack pointer 12:42:59 but the first three values are passed in the registers, aren't they? 12:43:33 so if you have [top of call chain ... stuff ... values returned by function we're interested in ... gunk ... current sp] it places the sp that those values are in the right place 12:44:14 IIRC all unknown values travel on stack, only known values in registers 12:44:31 aha 12:45:24 while i dearly love multiple values, i understand perfectly well why so few languages have them 12:45:31 and what does %nip-values do? 12:46:06 [top, stuff, gunk, values] => [top, stuff, values] ; approximately 12:46:19 IIRC 12:46:31 ok, thanks, i'll try to mull over it 12:46:50 alexey dejneka would know... 13:16:50 -!- xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:18:45 xymox [lechuck@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #sbcl 13:40:05 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 13:44:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 14:01:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:03:56 leuler [~user@p548FD355.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #sbcl 14:10:38 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-127.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 14:18:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:07:51 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 15:17:03 xani [~user@178.183.142.79.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #sbcl 15:20:09 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 15:32:27 xani` [~user@178.183.130.183.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #sbcl 15:33:22 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-116.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #sbcl 15:35:00 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #sbcl 15:35:53 -!- xani [~user@178.183.142.79.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:47:43 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-221-81.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 15:51:29 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:52:42 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-berfjgnusdekkvce] has joined #sbcl 15:54:32 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:15 davazp [~user@31.200.175.143] has joined #sbcl 16:00:38 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:01:07 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192142.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #sbcl 16:03:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has joined #sbcl 16:03:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has quit [Changing host] 16:03:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 16:08:35 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.68.243] has joined #sbcl 16:08:36 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.68.243] has quit [Changing host] 16:08:36 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 16:11:56 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:10 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192142.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:28:24 Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #sbcl 16:32:56 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-34-69-125.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 16:33:15 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-221-81.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:37:43 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-74-150.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 16:38:05 so, it's the caller job to pop the stack of a callee? since the stack can contain information like mv 16:38:42 *stassats* reads Calling Convention section 16:39:30 I don't know if 's made it anywhere else, but it's useful 16:39:54 i think it's in the internals manual 16:40:14 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@71-34-69-125.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:43:58 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #sbcl 16:49:53 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.175.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:51:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:57:40 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:58:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has joined #sbcl 16:58:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has quit [Changing host] 16:58:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 16:59:35 "The old convention was to increment the return address by 2" // so like, there was a 2-byte jmp right after the return, and incrementing the return address by that would nicely skip it? 17:01:08 why would there be a need for a jump if it's not reached? 17:01:49 *stassats* haven't read the context 17:02:17 well, like, it has to do a different thing depending on whether or not it's a "single-value return", and it does this +2 to the return value thing 17:02:29 and that has to at least, like, land on a valid instruction 17:02:41 yeah, i just read that section 17:02:44 overly clever 17:03:34 I like the carry flag thing... that actuall explains the thing with setting the carry flag Bike was talking about, I think 17:03:51 -!- Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:06:10 Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #sbcl 17:08:08 stassats: I think the trick is used on all other backends... There's some debugging stuff that does the same; good thing that the cmov can just be skipped as well. 17:11:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:36 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:26:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 17:42:24 ebw [~user@f050209241.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #sbcl 17:48:39 davazp [~user@31.200.167.74] has joined #sbcl 17:53:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:32:00 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #sbcl 20:32:01 20:32:01 -!- names: ccl-logbot stassats astertronistic ebw` Strigoides Bike zophy Hydan xani` ehaliewicz leuler xymox danlentz edgar-rft angavrilov prxq yacks easye joshe erikc ASau alagabes scymtym @Krystof aba` Vivitron whoops cmm |3b| loke pchrist minion specbot psilord milosn_ akovalenko Fiora luis Ralt _8david antifuchs bege flip214_ redline6561 reb cic_ jdz Posterdati foom kanru meyersh p_l pkhuong pipping ivan`` brucem Tribal scymtym__ antoszka fe[nl]ix cow-orker 20:32:01 -!- names: asedeno daimrod christoph_debian jsnell 20:34:35 pkhuong: Great blog entry on starting out with SBCL! :) I've been hoping someone would write that for a while. Maybe I'll find time to dig in soon. 20:38:36 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:37 redline6561: glad to hear it 20:39:40 pkhuong: it appears that "Oh my" should be "My" 20:41:24 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-155-18.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 20:43:13 stassats: Oh my Zsh is a fairly comprehensive package for zsh (batteries-included zsh, in a way) 20:46:30 davazp [~user@92.251.199.115.threembb.ie] has joined #sbcl 20:46:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:09 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #sbcl 20:52:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-155-18.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:15 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-155-18.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 21:02:18 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:04:58 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #sbcl 21:06:06 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.199.115.threembb.ie] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:10:47 ASau` [~user@p4FF96382.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #sbcl 21:13:26 -!- ASau [~user@p5797FF1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:13:34 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 21:19:54 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:21:17 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 21:22:12 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:22:22 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #sbcl 21:22:22 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 21:34:33 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:09 -!- xani` [~user@178.183.130.183.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:30 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-berfjgnusdekkvce] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:44 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 21:59:55 -!- leuler [~user@p548FD355.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.6 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:01:08 -!- ebw` is now known as ebw 22:09:01 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 22:17:20 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:09 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:08 -!- ebw [~user@g227064049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]