00:47:19 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 01:35:03 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:52:49 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:19:08 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d562.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:32:07 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75ffab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 02:36:24 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:24:22 LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 03:42:56 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.112.186.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:10:17 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-beqdzqfbiilycqfg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:14:55 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:01:41 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 05:17:50 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:20:54 -!- les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:21:12 les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has joined #sbcl 05:44:19 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 06:16:19 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:22:29 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:53:49 eataix [eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #sbcl 07:18:28 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-190-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:56:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.21.141] has joined #sbcl 07:56:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.21.141] has quit [Changing host] 07:56:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 07:59:41 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 08:15:02 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 08:15:02 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 08:18:28 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.82.69] has joined #sbcl 08:19:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:21:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 08:23:03 pnpuff [~eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 08:25:21 lichtblau: packed? :) 08:27:27 :-( so much stuff left to be done :-) 08:27:49 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has left #sbcl 08:27:56 -!- pnpuff [~eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #sbcl 08:28:01 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 08:28:01 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 08:28:46 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 08:30:26 pnpuff [~eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 08:32:07 that has to be one of the more expressive uses of emoticons i've seen in a while 08:35:36 -!- pnpuff [~eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:41:25 at least it's balanced 08:56:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:40:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.190.112] has joined #sbcl 09:40:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.190.112] has quit [Changing host] 09:40:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 09:43:50 pnpuff [~laudo@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 10:09:41 -!- pnpuff [~laudo@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: .] 10:11:36 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:15:37 burrows [~user@cpe-75-187-53-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 10:21:40 lichtblau: why is sb-win32:crypt-gen-random under #+sb-dynamic-core? 10:26:56 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 10:44:57 Hi nikodemus! 10:46:09 hi! how's the telecom life? 10:46:25 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 10:48:09 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-141-40.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 10:54:28 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-141-40.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:36 nikodemus: Quite good. Taking a break from all the traveling right now, but it's going to start again soon enough. :-) 10:56:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-141-40.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 10:58:34 hah. for me the traveling is just about to start: first customer delivery is in the works... 10:59:49 I've been out the loop. Are you allowed to tell what you are doing, or do I have to be afraid of ninjas visiting me at night? 11:00:20 I guess these two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive 11:01:05 stassats: you can drop that reader conditional, because (unlike the windows branch) we do not pretend to support win32 without sb-dynamic-core anymore 11:01:29 as to your question as asked: Don't know, but probably because the dll is only being loaded in warm init or something. 11:01:53 Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #sbcl 11:04:08 pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 11:05:59 tcr: http://www.zenrobotics.com is the company 11:15:52 nice, inventing tomorrow's overlords 11:17:22 Is the company looking for people? I have a friend who's going to get his phd in robotics this year I think. He was the supervisor of my bachelor thesis, good guy. C++ and CL hacker. 11:22:39 -!- hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:29:24 tcr: not right now in principle, but practically constantly 11:30:28 if there's a brilliant potential hire, do tell him about us, and tell him to send us email even if we're not advertising right now: we're likely to look for more people within the next year or so 11:30:54 I will tell him. That might fit exactly in with his phd schedule 11:32:43 haha you said "phd schedule" 11:33:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:33:49 tcr: you can also pass him my email address for some side-channel comms 11:34:24 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:35:06 cool I will 11:36:14 so, any thoughts on the local package nicknames? (has anyone had time to look at it?) 11:38:04 I didn't see why you wanted an "opaque" hook rather than find-package-using-package 11:38:13 or rather I didn't see why using f-p-u-p would make linedit not work 11:40:00 huh 11:40:12 i misremembered how i'd implemented linedit 11:40:50 excellent! What was the misremembered problem? 11:40:59 no, wait, i was right 11:41:50 it uses find-package with the presumed prefix to look for symbol completions 11:42:40 so if (find-package "LOCAL-NICK") doesn't return anything -- or returns the global package -- it won't work right 11:43:43 complete.lisp:153 11:44:08 but what is the problem? 11:44:27 I would expect find-package to call find-package-using-package 11:44:36 oh 11:45:04 so (find-package x) == (find-package-using-package x *package*)? 11:45:10 that's fine, then 11:45:13 yay 11:45:29 it may be speculative generality, but the idea is that the current package controls the rules for looking up package names 11:45:30 i though you wanted (find-package x) == (find-package-using-package x nil) 11:45:43 I don't think that's useful :-) 11:46:04 Hm, in Slime there's a *package* and a *buffer-package* 11:46:15 ok, i'll see about doing that 11:46:16 I think (find-package x) means "if *package* is a standard package, look up using standard rules; if *package* is exciting, do something different" 11:46:27 and by standard I don't necessarily mean class-based dispatch 11:46:52 (though obviously a future where I actually do the stupid subclassable packages work might allow that to happen so that users can define their own exotic package classes) 11:47:15 tcr: so when you do completion, you should probably bind *package* to *buffer-package* 11:47:35 and some day we will have symbol aliases as well, so that (find-symbol "KONS" exciting-package) => CL:CONS is possible 11:47:35 or is there a reason why that couldn't be done? 11:48:12 *|3b|* had to patch slime to use local nicknames, don't remember where exactly though 11:51:37 <|3b|> yeah, looks like it was completions 11:52:43 Krystof: are you OK with leaving FIND-PACKAGE-USING-PACKAGE internal and undocumented for now? 11:53:37 <|3b|> nikodemus: your local nicknames override global names, right? 11:53:57 yes 11:54:12 and symbols print using local nicknames 11:56:04 <|3b|> cool, much more useful and safer to use when they override global names 11:56:27 what about the restrictions on "CL", "COMMON-LISP", "KEYWORD", and ""? 11:58:41 *|3b|* seems to remember thinking overriding CL might be interesting 11:59:18 <|3b|> KEYWORD is a bit messier 12:01:36 hm 12:06:24 <|3b|> not sure i see any reason to object to using || as a nickname though, unless it confuses reading :keywords somehow 12:06:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.190.112] has joined #sbcl 12:06:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.190.112] has quit [Changing host] 12:06:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 12:10:52 point 12:12:54 <|3b|> for CL, i could sort of see wanting to read code in a fake CL package, for cross compilers or CL hosted not-quite-cl languages 12:13:01 <|3b|> not sure if that would actually work usefully or not 12:14:22 there are other ways to do deal with that 12:14:40 like having a separate xc or lisp package which exports the right things 12:16:03 or just doing (:local-nicknames (:xc #+on-host :cl) (:xc #-on-host :mylisp)) 12:16:19 nikodemus: internal and undocumented is fine :) 12:16:34 ok 12:16:43 where are you on the side of restrictions? 12:16:48 leoc` [~leoc.git@p5DDB91AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #sbcl 12:17:01 Fine for "standard" local nicknames 12:17:16 someone wants something more free, they can implement their own package class 12:17:44 ok 12:17:53 <|3b|> nikodemus: was more thinking about trying to load code that already used cl: prefix, without hand editing it 12:18:21 right 12:18:33 <|3b|> easier to remove restrictions than add them though, so probably OK to pick the conservative option to start with 12:18:44 very true 12:19:28 well, except that this is somewhat in the nature of a fairly interactive tool (not *very* interactive, but) 12:19:52 I would expect uses of overriding the cl package not to end up in published code very soon 12:20:07 so maybe freer (so that we can see what the corner cases actually are) is better 12:20:41 restrictions don't need to be enforced but can be left documented that behaviour is open to change in future 12:20:53 allow overriding cl but say it is undefined? 12:21:05 "the classic cl solution" 12:21:32 *|3b|* would probably pick error over undefined 12:22:21 <|3b|> possibly with a 'if you tried this, file a bug with a use case' note or something 12:23:52 or make it a continuable error 12:32:09 <|3b|> nikodemus: something else i don't remember seeing, does your p-l-n add anything to *FEATURES*? 12:33:42 nope 12:33:52 it probably should, though, yes 12:36:55 *|3b|* discovers a fork of my package-local-nicknames i seem to have missed 12:37:08 <|3b|> not that i ever merged the stuff from the fork i did know about :/ 12:40:23 |3b|: any gratuitious incompatibilities between yours and mine? 12:40:43 that is, something i could change to make transition smoother? 12:43:33 *|3b|* doesn't see any 12:43:47 ok 12:44:50 :sb-local-nicknames, or :local-nicknames in the hopes that others will follow with a compatible api? 12:47:54 <|3b|> does "local nicknames are protected by package locks" mean you can't modify an unlocked package using the nickname? 12:50:47 it means if FOO is locked, you need to be in FOO to add local nicknames to it 12:51:27 (or remove) 12:51:42 <|3b|> ok, that wounds reasonable 12:51:43 (defpackage :foo (:lock t) (:local-nicknames (:lisp :cl)) (remove-package-local-nickname :lisp :foo) =| error 12:52:05 <|3b|> *sounds 12:52:17 (defpackage :foo (:lock t) (:local-nicknames (:lisp :cl)) (let ((*package* (find-package :foo))) (sb-ext:remove-package-local-nickname :lisp :foo)) => ok 12:59:01 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 13:09:57 -!- Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has left #sbcl 13:38:45 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.4] 14:16:29 LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 14:25:26 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 14:32:01 Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #sbcl 14:41:42 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:49:56 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 14:49:56 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 15:17:53 hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #sbcl 15:29:41 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p5DDB91AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:41 -!- leoc` [~leoc.git@p5DDB91AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:39:39 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 15:54:47 leoc [~leoc.git@p5DDB91AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #sbcl 16:03:47 -!- burrows [~user@cpe-75-187-53-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:46 Thra11 [~thrall@87.112.186.70] has joined #sbcl 16:15:23 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:21:48 pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 16:33:34 leoc` [~leoc.git@p5DDBAA82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #sbcl 16:34:12 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p5DDB91AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:39:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.82.69] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:54:43 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:14 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 18:11:34 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:14 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 19:24:19 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.52.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:51 -!- asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-knqnifusqzdquxdf] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:33:45 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #sbcl 19:38:39 ASau [~user@46.115.52.76] has joined #sbcl 20:20:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-141-40.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:30:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-140-71.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 20:46:10 LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 21:15:37 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:19:05 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:34 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]