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06:21:52 egn_ [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #sbcl 06:21:52 -!- asimov.freenode.net has set mode +o Krystof 06:22:08 QuickSilver_ [~ait@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 06:22:08 antgreen [~user@dsl-173-206-169-60.tor.primus.ca] has joined #sbcl 06:25:45 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.183.40] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 07:16:25 scigod [~sci@111.213.185.75] has joined #sbcl 07:26:21 -!- scigod [~sci@111.213.185.75] has left #sbcl 07:54:44 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.123.18] has joined #sbcl 08:43:32 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #sbcl 08:47:36 regarding my latest blog entry: we have a lock per generic function because of the need to keep the discriminating function and the dfun state consistent 08:48:03 if we made discriminating functions funcallable instances, which carried around the dfun state, this requirement would go away and we would no longer need a lock per generic function 08:48:15 good idea? bad idea? totally wrongheaded idea? 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[~mommer@mnhm-4d013836.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 14:57:31 -!- milosn [~milosn@5ac48553.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:03:19 milosn [~milosn@5ac48553.bb.sky.com] has joined #sbcl 15:04:10 ... How the hell did threading ever work on PPC? I'm looking at create_os_thread() in thread.c, and it's setting the thread control stack to be the lisp control stack, which really doesn't seem right for PPC... 15:41:30 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.123.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:52:49 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 16:06:13 *jaimef* starts to wonder if hunchentoot/threading on any bsd works as it does on win32/linux. 16:07:10 free seems very close to linux. Certainly moreso than win32. 16:08:47 well I load the example-1.lisp from restas, which just starts a local web serverto service one page. linux/win32 return to repl and run it in the background. net/open/freebsd all block on it as if they were a shell lacking job control 16:09:00 jaimef: did you build them with threads? 16:09:12 used default packages on ech 16:09:14 There's no thread (for SBCL) on net or open, for instance. 16:09:14 each 16:09:26 I don 16:09:36 right. I expected free to have it enabled by default. but will check 16:10:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@business-178-48-2-49.business.broadband.hu] has joined #sbcl 16:10:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@business-178-48-2-49.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:10:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 16:10:44 ahh yeah disabled by default as "experimental". 16:10:45 thanks 16:13:37 For a real challenge, get it to work on a sparc, mips, or ARM system. d-: 16:14:17 I do still have a collection of old stuff like that. 16:14:37 if I still did netbsd maybe it would be a fun challenge 16:14:54 Mmm... Old stuff, like android tablets. 16:15:10 like http://linbsd.org/rack.png 16:15:16 all non-x86 16:15:44 Oh, wow. Is that a NeXT or two? 16:15:53 yeap 16:15:57 still boots net 16:16:28 not in an earthquake-prone area, I gather (: 16:18:58 it is now 16:20:22 rented a uhaul to bring most of it to sf from austin 16:26:58 *lichtblau* wonders what the SBCL self-build time is on the O2+ 16:29:07 memory limits in the next/dreamcast/vaxes would be a problem imho 16:29:13 SGI certainly knew how to design cases. Even the Indy looks modern almost 20 years later. 16:31:20 big metal box in a plastic cover 16:57:50 homie [~homie@94.122.241.159] has joined #sbcl 17:10:41 ASau [~user@46.115.72.6] has joined #sbcl 17:25:39 well, the huge monitor sure looks like a stranded whale 17:43:30 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: eternal darkness] 17:57:50 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-131-106.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:58:32 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-141.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #sbcl 18:04:13 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 18:14:35 Lovely. ARM hardware supports four different stack styles. The ARM calling standard specifies using one of them... And SBCL does something completely different. 18:15:14 I'm beginning to wonder about the advisability of having a feature :number-stack-grows-downward-not-upward. 18:15:56 why is it not named just :number-stack-grows-downward? 18:16:10 Parallelism with existing feature names. 18:16:39 like what? 18:16:43 :cl-not-scheme? 18:16:49 leuler [~user@p548FCE74.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #sbcl 18:18:31 Have a look at an x86oid *FEATURES*. You'll see :C-STACK-IS-CONTROL-STACK and :STACK-GROWS-DOWNWARD-NOT-UPWARD. 18:19:19 that's why i'm wondering, why is it named as such 18:19:34 Because the usual rule is that they grow upwards? 18:19:52 DOWNWARD seems like an opposite of UPWARD, why spell out twice the same thing? 18:19:54 I don't know, and I suspect that it pre-dates SBCL itself. 18:20:38 don't think so, it's a WHN invention AFAIK 18:21:37 does anything, besides SBCL internals, needs to know which way the stack grows? 18:22:19 I don't imagine so, unless they're doing horribly unsupportable things in the first place. 18:22:54 i wonder if something like *features*, but a private one could be used, to discourage such practices 18:24:37 I'm actually wondering if I can introduce a new abstraction to paper over the one use-case that I've found so far without having to introduce a new feature. 18:24:59 a comment in base-target-features says it's "control-stack-grows-downward-not-upward", while it doesn't have "control" 18:25:07 so, i guess it was already renamed once 18:26:12 People will always find a way to depend on stuff they "shouldn't". Better have someone use :stack-grows-downward-not-upward than the currently equivalent (or :x86 :x86-64) 18:26:57 and it's C-STACK-IS-CONTROL-STACK while it's named CONTROL-STACK-CONTAINS-C-STACK in base-target-features.lisp-expr 18:28:10 lichtblau: How about we introduce it as a build-time configurable feature on a couple platforms? (-: 18:28:20 i've found the commit, it actually used to be STACK-GROWS-UPWARD and STACK-GROWS-DOWNWARD 18:29:08 so, i guess it was for breaking compatibility with something that dependent on it 18:29:10 I think that the worst part is, we have something like three stacks. 18:34:15 and shouldn't all the features be prefixed with sb-? 18:34:42 internal to sbcl, that is 18:34:52 sb-x86 ? 18:35:10 "internal to sbcl" 18:35:45 like C-STACK-IS-CONTROL-STACK COMPARE-AND-SWAP-VOPS STACK-ALLOCATABLE-X 18:36:06 naming questions are boring 18:36:10 But :-) -- it would indeed be nicer to have CONTROL- in the name, lest people confuse it as referring to the number stack. 18:36:22 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:36:29 It's the binding stack, obviously. 18:37:18 (It'd be nice to be able to get rid of the bindstack, actually. I have a general approach that should work to do so, but lack the time and interest to actually implement it. 18:39:04 wait, I suppose it makes sense as-is, because it _is_ the number stack, so if we had control-stack-grows-foo, we would need to simultaneously also set number-stack-grows-foo. 18:39:28 (on the affected platforms) 18:40:21 Objection! I'm working on ARM, and I need the alien (number) stack to grow downwards, but already have the control stack growing upwards. 18:40:47 Or I need separate alien and number stacks. 18:41:28 Oh, and I'm still fairly sure that PPC threading is broken with the way it allocates the C stack into the Lisp control stack space. 18:41:42 (For all threads other than the initial thread, that is.) 18:50:09 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #sbcl 19:03:23 that reminds me: I wanted to try removing the pthread_attr_setstack in favour of _setstacksize() and _getstack(), based on the theory that we're only allocating the stack as a left-over from the clone()-based threads where we had to do that. 19:03:50 (problems with our guard pages being the other theory) 19:15:16 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d013836.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:05 the features should be in sb!int 19:33:12 if we're being ambitious 19:33:53 I think the name is stack-grows-downward-not-upward to remind maintainers that there weren't *two* features, stack-grows-downward and stack-grows-upward 19:38:40 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-foeizhmevzcdixvm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:50 reb [user@nat/google/x-bakfeusgeqsuckul] has joined #sbcl 19:40:43 We can't really put the features into SB!INT very easily, though, since package-data.lisp-expr has feature conditionals in it. 19:43:27 Krystof: there used to be two such features 19:44:25 but it seems like it's easy to remember that "stack-grows-downward" is sole 19:53:11 I am merely telling you my recollection of the reason 19:53:35 in this x86-centric world, one might expect that -upward was the thing that needed different treatment 19:54:28 so, why can't (typep x 'class) be optimized when it's present in the same file where CLASS is defined? 19:55:36 hmm hunchentoot on fbsd seems to eat a single cpu at 100% when idle 19:57:32 (sb-c::careful-specifier-type 'x) doesn't know the type after just (SB-PCL::%COMPILER-DEFCLASS 'X 'NIL 'NIL 'NIL) 20:11:38 Krystof: can this be rectified in some way? 20:24:23 not trivially 20:24:27 it's a bug 20:24:55 alright, first step is to file a ticket 20:27:40 lp 1082967 20:27:40 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1082967 20:28:17 now, let's wait for an open source fairy to fix it! 20:29:57 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #sbcl 20:41:55 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 21:00:57 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.123.18] has joined #sbcl 21:02:15 nyef_ [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-141.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #sbcl 21:02:15 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-141.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.123.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:44:50 sonyX [~10458ED75@h-91-189-39-2.euronet.net.pl] has joined #sbcl 22:47:28 -!- leuler [~user@p548FCE74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.6 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:59:00 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:03:24 -!- nyef_ [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-141.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:31 nyef__ [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-141.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #sbcl 23:05:51 drm [~user@host86-135-233-182.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #sbcl 23:09:14 -!- drm [~user@host86-135-233-182.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:12:11 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 23:42:15 nyef_ [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-141.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #sbcl 23:42:55 -!- nyef__ [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-141.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]