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I like the promotion of SBCL. But it says: "SBCL is open source, runs on a number of platforms (Windows)". That seems to me to imply it runs only under windows? 13:06:56 oops 13:07:00 editing error 13:07:37 changed to "including Windows" 13:11:10 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-156-31.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:41:03 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-54-102.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #sbcl 13:42:49 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #sbcl 14:03:16 what is (defstruct (dead-beef-structure-object (:constructor |STRUCTURE-OBJECT class constructor|) (:copier nil))) used for? 14:04:30 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #sbcl 14:05:48 the same |STRUCTURE-OBJECT class constructor| is used in !bootstrap-initialize-class for as a structure-object constructor 14:08:57 this code in room.lisp that I'm looking at 14:09:07 it was written and maintained by deranged monkeys on crack, right? 14:11:02 *stassats* tries to remove this dead-beef-structure-object and see what happens 14:12:05 my guess is that it's to ensure a definition for the |STRUCTURE-OBJECT class constructor| 14:12:28 when PCL was Portable, there is no other way of getting hold of a "real" structure constructor other than defining a structure 14:13:03 if I'm right, just removing the dead-beef-structure-object should break the bootstrap and give you incomprehensible error messages (because printing won't work) 14:13:37 let's see 14:17:24 the message is compressible 14:17:38 it complains on undefined function 14:18:40 ok, i see why, it calls |STRUCTURE-OBJECT class constructor| to get a prototype 14:19:48 (sb-mop:class-prototype (find-class 'structure-object)) => #S(SB-PCL::DEAD-BEEF-STRUCTURE-OBJECT) 14:20:05 couldn't it do better than this? 14:20:17 in the world of non-portable PCL, yes 14:20:39 if you're looking at that, you could also look at the code path for (defclass foo () (:metaclass structure-class)), which is truly horrible 14:20:58 it involves constructing a defstruct form and evaling it 14:21:12 what it ought to do is construct a defstruct description 14:21:21 again, a relic from Portable PCL days 14:22:26 *stassats* isn't prepared to touch PCL 14:24:47 so it evaluates (defstruct structure-object ...) every time? 14:28:18 hm no, the defclass form 14:28:26 but what is a defstruct-form then? 14:29:35 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 14:32:22 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-90-12.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:33:15 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:33:46 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-44-50.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #sbcl 14:48:56 why does defclass-form has :compile-toplevel? if it's already evaluated 14:49:16 and :execute 15:01:07 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 15:12:21 is make-condition supposed to silently ignore initargs which would signal an error when supplied to make-instance? 15:56:23 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-44-50.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:56 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-44-50.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #sbcl 16:16:31 antgreen [~user@CPE0021910f07ac-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #sbcl 16:17:57 zmyrgel [~user@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fe91fa00-218.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #sbcl 17:01:35 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 17:15:18 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 17:43:25 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-44-50.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:00 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-44-50.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #sbcl 17:59:37 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 18:00:05 Just git updated SBCL on Linux and now I get a report that SB-BSD-SOCKETS did not build successfully or pass tests. Is this to be expected? 18:03:00 no 18:05:21 Kryztof: thanks. I will see if I can winkle the actual failure out of the transcript. 18:08:58 *rpg* stupidly built in VNC window with inadequate history and no cut and paste.... 18:29:52 Test SB-BSD-SOCKETS-TEST::SIMPLE-LOCAL-CLIENT failed: http://paste.lisp.org/+2RE2 18:34:16 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:45:32 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #sbcl 18:47:02 Kryztof: does that suggest any obvious issues to you? 18:48:29 looks like some headers are missing 18:49:59 don't know whether they are necessary, though 18:50:14 <|3b|> rpg: /dev/log exists and is writable? 18:50:54 rpg: but i get no such errors 18:51:14 |3b|: I believe so: srw-rw-rw- 1 root root 0 Dec 30 10:23 /dev/log 18:51:37 oh, no 18:51:55 i get some 18:52:42 *rpg* waits with bated breath... 18:52:51 i have no EAI_ADDRFAMILY, but SO_BSDCOMPAT is there 18:53:26 but they don't appear to matter in any way 18:53:49 <|3b|> might see if it managed to log anything (looks like it ended up in /var/log/syslog on this ubuntu install) 18:54:20 <|3b|> "bsd-sockets: Don't panic. We're testing local-domain client code; this message can safely be ignored" 18:54:47 This is OpenSUSE, if that helps. 18:58:38 |3b|: got those messages in February, when I last successfully built. Not today. 19:00:47 *|3b|* has no other guesses, aside from maybe try building whatever old version built 19:00:58 stassats: is there any information about where SO_BSDCOMPAT came from? 19:01:15 perhaps the test should be more self-contained and create its own socket? 19:02:43 rpg: no, but i don't think it matters 19:11:33 -!- zmyrgel [~user@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fe91fa00-218.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:43 zmyrgel [~user@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fe91fa00-218.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #sbcl 19:50:16 *Qworkescence* contemplates printing off all of the SBCL source code 19:51:06 Qworkescence: As part of the let's not save the forests after all initiative? 19:51:49 No, as a part of the "let's write notes and draw lines and learn the SBCL source code" initiative 19:51:53 does your paper include M-.? 19:51:56 or grep? 19:52:15 Unfortunately not! 19:52:17 and C-c C-c? 19:54:04 Paper just has the M-x write-with-a-pen feature 19:54:37 i don't think you would be able to learn SBCL from reading source code on paper 19:54:59 stassats, why do you say that? 19:55:13 because it's too big and complex 19:55:43 have you read http://common-lisp.net/project/cmucl/doc/CMUCL-design.pdf ? 19:56:11 partly 19:56:35 I wouldn't print off all the source code, but I seem to remember doing a fair amount of work on sbcl on pen and paper copies of source code printouts over the years 19:56:49 erm, please infer what I obviously meant 19:56:53 same. With emacs-generated xref. 19:57:16 the easiest and most motivating to learn more about SBCL is to head out to launchpad and try to fix open bugs 19:57:21 way 19:58:01 http://imgur.com/bdajV.jpg /// http://imgur.com/z2H8g.jpg 19:58:15 hm.. 502 bad gateway 19:58:19 you broke it! 20:00:53 Phooodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 20:01:00 nikodemus wrote on the ml recently that strace is known to break sbcl. What did he mean by that? 20:01:17 I seem to be able to strace sbcl and attach to a running sbcl. 20:02:08 unless it's been fixed recently, "strace sbcl" won't start up. 20:02:43 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:02:59 Seems to work on my debian_64 testing/wheezy install. 20:03:20 Oh, nevermind. There are those corruption warnings. Thanks guys. 20:03:54 it's quite clearly a bug in strace of some sort, but I haven't been bothered to track it down. 20:06:20 strace isn't handling signals properly? that's a little surprising. 20:07:00 SBCL uses signals for GC 20:07:02 or something similar 20:07:14 I've had strace crash other programs too 20:07:16 it's not just sbcl 20:07:38 or i'm mixing it with boehm c 20:07:39 gc 20:07:41 Gotcha. Thanks for shedding some light on the matter guys. 20:09:27 it is possible to write signal-intercepting code which faithfully passes on to the child program the signals that the parent doesn't handle 20:09:31 neither strace nor gdb does so 20:09:48 instead they just stomp on any existing signal handlers 20:11:05 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 20:11:05 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 20:12:07 wait, what? 20:12:11 gdb works fine 20:12:48 it doesn't have the bug that strace has. 20:13:51 You can either do "handle SIGSEGV nostop noprint pass" or just type "signal SIGSEGV" every time it stops at a segv. 20:13:56 either way works 20:14:36 and strace does try to not get in the way of signals, it just fails miserably. 20:21:02 -!- antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:21:13 -!- whoops [whoops@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe93:da36] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:22:48 antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #sbcl 20:23:34 whoops [whoops@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe93:da36] has joined #sbcl 20:32:17 foom: try that with SIGTRAP 20:32:47 gdb ought to be able to keep track of which SIGTRAPs are from its own breakpoints and which it should forward to the process 20:33:14 instead, it gets thoroughly confused 20:35:41 "Actually, I guess the overhead for providing type inference methods for the internal frobs isnt that great" -- good sentence 20:36:42 Kryztof: yea, you can't do handle SIGTRAP successfully, but IIRC, signal SIGTRAP when it says "OMG I got a SIGTRAP and it wasn't mine!" worked great. 20:39:18 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-88.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 20:39:26 nikodemus: the interpreter has to be binary, you cannot use script there. 20:51:27 What is the benefit of an IF-IF optimization? (if (if p ...) q r) ==> (if p (if ..) (if ..)) 20:52:18 Does it just make flow a little more linear? 20:56:07 ASau`: yeah, i forgot that. use eg. /usr/bin/env as middleman 20:57:28 is making a new binary an option? 20:58:43 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: Zzzz] 20:58:47 no idea, but the OP already reported success with a trampoline, so either he's on system that's fine with scripts as interpreters, or he figured the env trick out on his own 20:59:56 -!- Phooodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:12 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 21:00:13 -!- whoops [whoops@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe93:da36] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 21:00:30 whoops [whoops@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe93:da36] has joined #sbcl 21:04:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:01 Qworkescence: fewer branches. It's a generalisation of the double-continuation trick to compile AND/OR chains. 21:20:23 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 21:30:43 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:32 -!- leuler [~user@p549059AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.6 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:49:33 -!- kwmiebach_ [kwmiebach@vps-6813.united-hoster.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:33 pkhuong, when is the last time you personally gave on an IR1 transform 22:04:05 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:05:00 -!- zmyrgel [~user@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fe91fa00-218.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:06:00 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:48 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.115.235] has joined #sbcl 22:21:11 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 23:03:40 -!- ASau` [~user@95-27-143-11.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:18:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.115.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:25:44 BEWARE OF BITROT 23:31:08 |42| [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3aab] has joined #sbcl 23:31:31 Some places of the source code say CONS is considered to be side effectful. Why? 23:31:59 "The function has no side effects except possibly cons." 23:33:23 <|3b|> is that saying CONS is the side effect? aka it uses ram? 23:34:22 It's in a comment about what "flushable" means. It seems odd to me that "uses RAM" would mean "side effectful" 23:55:14 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-54-102.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving]