00:05:03 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 00:05:05 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:04 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 00:45:50 hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 01:32:34 -!- hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:57 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-115.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:07:45 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:43:11 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099807.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:37 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:19:20 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #sbcl 06:19:20 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 06:19:20 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #sbcl 06:38:43 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 06:38:43 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 06:51:06 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:21 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #sbcl 08:16:57 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:54:10 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 08:55:38 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:35 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 09:37:02 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-221-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: off] 09:47:46 Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #sbcl 09:47:46 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xof 10:03:48 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 10:28:10 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:47:56 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 10:47:56 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 11:08:11 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:12:56 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #sbcl 11:14:29 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890288.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #sbcl 11:56:09 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:29:04 first cut at lutexless sbcl on darwin building. *crosses fingers* 13:21:59 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #sbcl 13:38:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-168-254.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #sbcl 13:38:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-168-254.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 13:38:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 13:53:43 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890288.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:37 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-141-140.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 14:24:07 nikodemus: wow! 14:28:07 now running tests :) 14:28:45 threads enabled and contribs built succesfully, so at least it's not completely broken... 14:29:34 this is without fair spinlocks, though -- just making mutexes outside futex-enabled builds work as unfair spinlocks 14:34:18 The dude who does suggested keeping things unfair by default. 14:34:46 fair spinlocks + backoff can lead to fragile performance 14:35:32 but unfairness is a problem in some cases ... 14:35:47 pkhuong: sbahra? Did you discuss this on systems reddit somewhere? 14:35:52 perhaps there should be two versions, a fair one and a performant one 14:36:04 flip214: right, "by default". 14:36:23 by default? hmmm ... 14:36:42 redline6561: we've been exchanging for a while. Mostly via ##systems 14:37:02 PS: Great blog post nikodemus. SBCL hacking seems less frightening now. :) 14:37:43 pkhuong: interesting 14:39:10 redline6561: you're welcome :) 14:40:14 pkhuong: i found http://www.concurrencykit.org/doc/ck_spinlock.html but where can i find info on how fair + backoff makes for fragile performance? 14:41:17 nikodemus: not sure. Basically if you have many waiters, you can end up being unlucky and repeatedly wait a long time for the next thread in line to wake up. 14:41:56 gotcha 14:42:36 i'm planning on putting most of the "just how does this lock work" options into MAKE-LOCK keyword arguments 14:43:32 *nikodemus* adds (make-lock :fair t/nil) to TODO 14:45:02 "Unexpected success: threads.pure.lisp / WITHOUT-INTERRUPTS+CONDITION-WAIT" win! 14:56:36 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:13 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 15:20:57 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 15:27:21 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:27:24 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 15:27:50 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 15:27:51 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 15:29:41 hmpt. turns out our mutex tests suck 15:29:57 i had broken release-mutex, and only semaphore tests caught it 15:45:20 MORE TESTS 15:46:55 you said it 16:11:21 what's the latest on extensible streams in SBCL? 16:11:38 ISTR agreement that they are needed, but regarding actual API design, a lack of complete proposals, and an abundance of potential ideas. 16:12:06 Now that Anton is asking for them again on sbcl-devel, I'm thinking we should get it over with and add them. 16:14:49 My proposal would be: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124089 16:25:07 lichtblau: that is very close to what i have in my brain (without reading the devilish details) 16:26:11 i also think a few other device functions are possibly in order: truncate and seek to name two 16:28:18 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:33:03 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:35:06 funny, I overheard a few comments at the office about how sbcl seems to be nudging its streams model to resemble simple-streams more and more (: 16:42:33 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #sbcl 16:50:47 Nice to hear that SBCL progress is being tracked by the competition! :-) 16:51:09 (I'm surprised to hear that particular assessment though, since I don't recall many architectural changes to streams in the last few years at all.) 16:52:33 yeah, a colleague was commenting on one of your sb-simple-streams commits, I think 16:53:49 ah. I'm sorry to say that sb-simple-streams looks pretty dead. But I didn't want it to look obviously broken, so I pulled in changes from Anton to make it pass tests on Windows. 17:04:18 yeah 17:05:03 I am guessing they are dead 17:05:27 leuler [~user@p54903CE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #sbcl 17:05:31 they never really were the ideal extensible stream protocol, anyway, judging by what Rudi was telling me (: 17:11:07 I'd say not ideal, but still pretty good. 17:11:36 The problems with sb-simple-streams are, I think, not about API quality, but about effort needed to build a great implementation. 17:41:31 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:47 simple-streams is a bad API 18:26:57 having debugged some simple-stream extensions over the last few months, I must agree (-: 18:27:02 it's really easy to get stuff wrong 18:27:15 and it's not obvious to anyone who isn't the original author how to extend them correctly 18:27:22 it crams into a single class what should be 2(or 3) classes: device, and stream or buffer and stream 18:27:37 initializatin(device-open) is very tricky 18:28:04 because certain slots(those regarding the FD) need to be initialized befor others(the buffer) 18:28:46 when I was implementing it for iolib I went mad in trying to replicate it and write simple translators 18:29:22 and the docs are low quality, very vague 18:31:20 the last one might be for political reasons 18:31:23 not sure ): 18:31:38 (selling a lisp implementation is fun!) 18:31:45 it has one advantage, and I guess that's why its author(s) chose this design 18:32:48 you don't have to use stream-device to access FD-specific functionality 18:33:24 a single object does everything: external-format translation, buffering, socket-options, etc... 18:36:57 the nicest design I've seen until now is python3's new I/O library 18:54:16 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:02:56 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #sbcl 19:17:06 I haven't checked out python's new IO lib, but I really liked the second Java I/O API 19:18:38 which I didn't mention :) 19:18:58 it's, essentially, as good as python's but it's 19:18:59 Java 19:19:33 and therefore clunky, full of unnecessary classes 19:23:41 has Microsoft published an official mapping of windows pathnames onto URIs ? 19:25:12 -!- scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21a:a0ff:fe34:2d7d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:16 scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21a:a0ff:fe34:2d7d] has joined #sbcl 19:55:50 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:56:30 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #sbcl 20:42:55 ASau [~user@95-24-221-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #sbcl 21:05:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:09:12 fe[nl]ix: yes, but it seems to depend on the product 21:09:29 fe[nl]ix: for IE: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa767731(v=VS.85).aspx 21:09:29 in what sense ? 21:09:47 fe[nl]ix: something about windows search: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff819129(v=vs.85).aspx 21:10:21 fe[nl]ix: there's something about ms exchange file: urls too 21:11:19 (oh just forget about exhange, it's something proprietary) 21:13:10 fe[nl]ix: i guess i was thinking out loud. the IE file: url handler seems to be the (most) common base 21:13:16 wow 21:20:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law 22:10:10 -!- leuler [~user@p54903CE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #sbcl 22:17:04 -!- scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21a:a0ff:fe34:2d7d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:25 scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21a:a0ff:fe34:2d7d] has joined #sbcl 23:30:42 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 23:50:10 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:30 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #sbcl 23:55:32 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:58:18 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl