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09:54:33 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:57 I certainly didn't write all of it 09:55:09 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #sbcl 09:55:40 oh, look, someone with initials JES wrote it 10:00:34 what a coincidence, someone with the same initials as me actually programs in lisp 10:02:12 gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has joined #sbcl 10:03:01 Sounds like you guys applied for the wrong job. I'm programming in Lisp all the time. 10:03:59 so, ELS, tell us! 10:04:19 way too little bloggage so far 10:05:57 I blogged! 10:06:12 Martin Cracauer says "hi" 10:06:27 approximately everyone says "SBCL sucks" 10:10:09 did they give any details? 10:11:10 one was "they don't have exactly the same synchronization primitives as CCL" 10:11:15 one was "no parallel garbage collector" 10:11:23 one was "no incremental garbage collector" 10:12:25 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:13:54 hm 10:14:05 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #sbcl 10:14:30 were they whines or reasoned complaints with "this is a problem for me because ..." attached? 10:16:09 sometimes they were whines. Nicholas Neuss has consy numerical simulations that get killed because of the gc stopping everything 10:16:29 (the consiness is by design; he can write non-consing code but then it would be as convenient to use as FORTRAN) 10:17:09 right 10:18:07 Wasn't there a new gc design? ISTR that it was available for SBCL, too 10:19:27 not really 10:20:06 there's the raven* gc library thing, but it has a restrictive license, and i don't think that anyone has hooked it up with sbcl 10:23:05 on the plus side, even though everyone was whining about sbcl, almost everyone was using sbcl 10:24:10 \o/ 10:24:19 the talk about porting it to the BlueGene was fun 10:25:16 the ITA people talking about threading QPX were a bit using their talk as "here is a list of bugs we ran into" 10:25:37 but I had a talk with them afterwards about funding speculative sbcl work a la summer of sbcl 10:25:42 dunno if anything will come of it 10:26:02 stuff that's been fixed or stuff that hasn't been reported yet? 10:26:19 (I didn't know that they were paying nyef for stuff) 10:26:21 - 2GB heap limit 10:26:21 - dynamic-extent of initial contents 10:26:21 - mutexes are slow 10:26:33 (I have no idea where the "2GB heap limit" complaint came from) 10:26:59 oh yes, beach used his talk to report a bug in sbcl too: butlast on circular lists 10:27:41 favourite quote of the conference: "obviously you can think of 3 as being something more expensive than just ... 3" 10:28:00 eh. :) 10:30:39 hm, i thought i fixed dx initial contents 10:31:36 that's what I said 10:32:02 the mutex thing is is the uncontended case, by the way 10:32:20 mostly unwind-protect related was their diagnosis. I didn't dig deeply 10:33:04 oh yes. unwind-protect _is_ relatively expensive 10:35:22 was it martin's presentation? 10:35:50 much of it was the same, yes, though it was given by someone else 10:36:00 there were about 4 ITAers there 10:36:07 James and Martin, and two other people 10:36:31 "Alec Berryman" 10:41:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-56-114.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #sbcl 10:41:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-56-114.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:41:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 11:26:17 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:48 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:32:55 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #sbcl 11:36:55 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-oigedacmaaqueqvu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:36 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:03:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-181.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 12:06:48 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 12:06:48 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 12:24:17 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:17 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:35:34 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:40:38 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #sbcl 13:07:20 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:43 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #sbcl 13:27:43 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 13:30:02 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 13:30:02 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 13:31:17 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 13:49:17 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-qtroerelcnolbfdm] has joined #sbcl 13:52:15 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #sbcl 14:30:46 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@wsip-70-164-121-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 15:16:10 pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 15:28:37 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:32:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:33:13 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-qtroerelcnolbfdm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-203-181.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:54 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-203-181.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #sbcl 16:02:28 pdlogan1 [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 16:02:30 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:10 -!- pdlogan1 is now known as pdlogan 16:16:13 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 16:22:20 rmarynch [~roman@88.135.194.233] has joined #sbcl 16:23:04 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:33:11 lnostdal [~Lars@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #sbcl 16:42:33 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:47:18 -!- kae [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:21 -!- Hermanski [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:48 kaek [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #sbcl 16:48:50 kae [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #sbcl 16:49:01 -!- kaek [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:43 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:54:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:58:26 lnostdal [~Lars@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #sbcl 17:07:29 what is the difference between 'impure' and 'impure-cload' tests? The way they are handled in run-tests.lisp makes me think that 'cload' ones may fail to compile in case of regressions. Is that right? 17:09:06 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #sbcl 17:09:11 it's more that just impure don't need to be file-compiled for the tests to actually test things, whereas the cload variants do -- they are (usually) explicitly testing the file-compiler 17:10:22 clear. It is interesting that there are many MOP cload ones... 17:13:33 that may be simple copy-and-paste 17:16:16 I have started the early design of the launcher which runs tests in parallel, to utilize more CPU cores. The idea is to have a 'supervisor' SBCL instance which will spawn child SBCL's in parallel. These children will run tests and report to the supervisor. Is that a reasonable design? 17:18:16 other variant is to do that on OS level, by starting multiple run-tests scripts, each with it's own file set. 17:18:50 but this last way seems to be too weird 17:22:32 too bad we can't assume gnu parallel exists 17:23:03 alternatively, write out a temporary makefile from run-tests.sh and let make manage things 17:26:48 sounds even more weird :) 17:27:18 well, make already knows about load balancing things and so forth. might as well reuse the whell 17:27:44 also, subprocess management (: 17:27:58 wheel, even. and yes! to antifuchs 17:28:01 I'm in favor of this idea, mostly because I find it delightfully weird. 17:28:14 (also because it sounds doable and is a neat hack) 17:31:32 the supervisor-child approach is easy - there should be a pool of threads and the global input queue of the test files. Pop a test, assign it to a free child SBCL, collect results. I am going to try this way first 17:38:54 that reminds me 17:40:10 I would like the lazyweb to write me a minithing using sbcl's timers or similar that can accumulate a queue (or multiple, don't care) of web "api" requests for rate-limited websites (i.e. "do not make more than X requests per minute or we will block your IP address") 17:40:54 a rate-limiting proxy? 17:40:55 the immediate use case I have is to query musicbrainz for disc/track information, linked with dbpedia and/or bbc artists 17:41:20 yes, but with multiple destinations each with their own limit rates 17:42:59 Krystof: Well, sbcl-concurrency:mailbox sounds like the thing for that 17:43:10 almost certainly, but I Am Not A Threads Programmer 17:43:22 one might say I Am Not A Programmer full stop 17:43:44 also it's kind of only one piece of that, right? 17:44:20 yes, but the most difficult one ... just make a mailbox for every destination, and a thread for each that sleeps a bit, then takes one piece off the mailbox 17:44:32 don't think that it gets more complicated than that 17:44:57 ah, but one thread per destination is also possibly limiting 17:45:04 ie. all the locking etc. is done via the mailbox - just have a mailbox and pthread per destination, and one pthread that puts data on the right box 17:45:12 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 17:45:16 maybe it is good enough, but my design is way ahead of my implementation 17:45:24 Krystof: how many destinations do you want to do in one instance? 17:45:53 As most of the threads will be sleeping anyway I'd think that this should work up to a few thousand 17:45:53 if a request to a destination blocks, for whatever reason, and takes more than 1 second to return data, then (within reason) that shouldn't stop me from starting a new request to that destination as long as I obey the rules 17:46:38 (with-timeout) or something similar won't work here, hmmm 17:46:48 well, if you want to get that fancy ;-) 17:47:29 perhaps you'll have to put the not-empty mailboxes on another mailbox, and have a few pthreads read from this round-robin 17:48:06 maybe the lazyweb will do this for me! 17:48:19 (no, probably not. I will have to build the world's greatest music player on my own) 17:48:43 well, thinking some more ... 17:49:47 use a mailbox for each destination, and store when the next request may be handled in another queue, sorted by time. 17:50:25 then just pull the next "job" from the to-do queue, look in the right mailbox, and start a pthread for that (or use an existing one - although that might block if there are too many requests to blocking URLs) 17:52:04 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #sbcl 17:57:01 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #sbcl 18:01:20 -!- rmarynch [~roman@88.135.194.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:34:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178.48.169.59] has joined #sbcl 18:34:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178.48.169.59] has quit [Changing host] 18:34:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 18:50:31 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: G'night everybody] 19:10:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:16:21 gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has joined #sbcl 19:18:26 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:38:22 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@wsip-70-164-121-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:40:13 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 19:40:13 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 19:49:35 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:03:55 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@wsip-70-164-121-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 20:24:00 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@wsip-70-164-121-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:13:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:23:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #sbcl 21:31:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:23 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp_] 21:33:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178.48.169.59] has joined #sbcl 21:33:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178.48.169.59] has quit [Changing host] 21:33:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 22:03:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:08:05 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-203-181.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:08:26 cmm [~cmm@109.65.203.181] has joined #sbcl 22:11:34 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:14:44 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 22:14:44 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 22:30:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:47 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-181.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 22:43:16 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-223.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 22:45:36 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:24 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-223.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:21:57 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #sbcl 23:38:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl