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2021-06-01T10:55:49Z HerrBlume: Hello, I have a function that splits a list into a plist and objects.  But I cannot come up with a good name. Any ideas?
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2021-06-01T10:57:18Z HerrBlume: (defun parse-arg-list (args)
2021-06-01T10:57:18Z HerrBlume:   (loop while args
2021-06-01T10:57:18Z HerrBlume:      for item = (pop args)
2021-06-01T10:57:18Z HerrBlume:      when (keywordp item)
2021-06-01T10:57:20Z HerrBlume:      collect item into keys and
2021-06-01T10:57:25Z HerrBlume:      collect (pop args) into keys
2021-06-01T10:57:28Z HerrBlume:      else collect item into rest
2021-06-01T10:57:31Z HerrBlume:      finally (return (values keys rest))))
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2021-06-01T12:04:00Z p_l: you should probably use a pastebin next time, but probably something with the name "destructuring" in it. Also, ask on #commonlisp at libera.chat, this channel is pretty much dead
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2021-06-01T12:41:14Z HerrBlume: p_l: thank you
2021-06-01T12:42:01Z HerrBlume: p_l: thank you
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2021-06-01T13:16:18Z nwoob: I'm trying to learn Algorithms in lisp, but should I first learn discrete maths before picking up algorithms book?
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2021-06-01T13:24:09Z p_l: nwoob: discrete math isn't necessary for many algorithms
2021-06-01T13:24:29Z p_l: I can recommend book called "The Algorithm Design Manual"
2021-06-01T13:24:43Z p_l: Also, current "alive" channel is #commonlisp at libera.chat
2021-06-01T13:25:34Z nwoob: what is libera.chat
2021-06-01T13:26:35Z nwoob: oh got it /connect irc.libera.chat
2021-06-01T13:27:18Z p_l: https://libera.chat/ has instructions on how to connect
2021-06-01T13:28:09Z nwoob: and about the book, I'm a complete noob will I be able to understand this book
2021-06-01T13:29:10Z p_l: nwoob: I like that book especially because it gives practical examples of how each algorithm was used to solve a problem
2021-06-01T13:29:20Z p_l: and isn't dreadfully dry
2021-06-01T13:29:51Z p_l: So I recommend it *especially* if you don't have much experience
2021-06-01T13:30:27Z nwoob: great! I'll start with this then. Thank you so much for guidance p_l
2021-06-01T13:30:41Z p_l: no problem
2021-06-01T13:30:47Z p_l: and welcome on #commonlisp next time :)
2021-06-01T13:30:56Z p_l is pretty much doing janitorial cleaning here :D
2021-06-01T13:31:12Z nwoob: yes :)
2021-06-01T13:37:15Z nwoob: p_l: just to confirm book The algorithm design manual is by Steven S. Skiena, right?
2021-06-01T13:38:46Z p_l: yes
2021-06-01T13:39:20Z p_l: oh, and #lisp on libera is more generall "all lisps" channel
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2021-06-01T13:42:43Z nwoob: got it, just joined libera.chat thank you :)
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2021-06-01T16:50:37Z aeth: I guess that's it for this channel, then. Bye, everyone! It's been a long time. 2011-04-23 is the first time I can see this channel in my logs. But I think 2012-01-29 is the first time I stayed. Wow, time flies.
2021-06-01T16:51:39Z aeth: My grand entrance here: "I am told that Lisp is the best programming language. / I want Lisp to prove it to me." <schmx> it won't
2021-06-01T16:52:10Z aeth: Also, I planned to make a tiling wm but <schmx> or you could just install stumpwm and hack on that.
2021-06-01T16:52:40Z aeth: yup, I just use stumpwm these days. Good enough. Why bother with that when there are other things to do?
2021-06-01T16:54:55Z aeth: I, like many, found Lisp via pg essays. I probably wasn't the only person with a very mistaken impression of Lisp at first.
2021-06-01T17:01:12Z aeth: Oh, well. At least now I know that the meaning of life is not about asking what Lisp can do for me. It's asking asking what I can do for Lisp.
2021-06-01T17:03:26Z aeth: And I guess what I can do for Lisp is to remind everyone (especially ccl-logbot I guess?) that the new home of Common Lisp on the net is #commonlisp on libera.chat now.
2021-06-01T17:04:33Z aeth waves
2021-06-01T17:08:46Z aeth: It is so hard to /PART but goodbye.
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2021-06-02T17:54:02Z ivche: wazzaap
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2021-06-02T18:36:23Z White_Flame: ivche: this channel moved to libera.chat
2021-06-02T18:37:25Z White_Flame: https://cliki.net/IRC
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2021-06-03T02:57:00Z epony: White_Flame, are you there?
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2021-06-03T03:36:24Z White_Flame: there here?  or there there?
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2021-06-03T09:07:58Z jacks2: why is #lisp on freenode about common lisp, and #lisp on libera about all lisps? someone got the channel registered before you?
2021-06-03T09:08:17Z White_Flame: because it's more clear that way
2021-06-03T09:08:27Z White_Flame: this channel went to #commonlisp
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2021-06-03T15:11:31Z nick3000: I am trying to redefine a method to use an optinal keyword in CLISP and am getting an error:
2021-06-03T15:11:32Z nick3000: #<STANDARD-METHOD
2021-06-03T15:11:32Z nick3000:   (#1=#<BUILT-IN-CLASS T> #2=#<STANDARD-CLASS MACHINE-WORD>)> has 1, but #<STANDARD-GENERIC-FUNCTION
2021-06-03T15:11:32Z nick3000:   MUL-SINGLE-PLACE-BY-WORD> has 0 optional parameters
2021-06-03T15:11:36Z nick3000:    [Condition of type SIMPLE-ERROR]
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2021-06-03T15:11:59Z nick3000: I tried to remove the method using remove-method, and it supposedly no longer exists but I still get the error.
2021-06-03T15:12:18Z nick3000: (remove-method #'mul-single-place-by-word (find-method #'mul-single-place-by-word nil (list (find-class t) (find-class 'machine-word)) nil))
2021-06-03T15:12:29Z nick3000: That works but I still get the error. Any ideas as to what is going wrong?
2021-06-03T15:12:50Z nick3000: If I restart lisp it of course goes away, but I've run into this a few times and I'd like to know how to get around it.
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2021-06-03T15:13:20Z Bike: when is this error signaled exactly?
2021-06-03T15:13:21Z nick3000: What triggered this all, to be clear, was adding an &optional argument.
2021-06-03T15:13:30Z Bike: also, this channel has pretty much moved to #commonlisp on libera.chat.
2021-06-03T15:13:34Z nick3000: If I eval the defmethod or load-system with asdf.
2021-06-03T15:13:39Z nick3000: Oh okay.
2021-06-03T15:14:14Z Bike: Anyway what the message is telling you is that the generic function and method have to agree on their lambda lists to some extent.
2021-06-03T15:14:28Z Bike: You can't have a generic function with zero optional parameters and a method with more than zero.
2021-06-03T15:14:43Z nick3000: Okay so I removed the specific method but not the generic one.
2021-06-03T15:14:59Z Bike: check clhs 7.6.4 for an exact description
2021-06-03T15:15:34Z Bike: is this generic function defined by a defgeneric form or is it implicit?
2021-06-03T15:16:26Z nick3000: implicit
2021-06-03T15:17:49Z Bike: so you just have one defmethod for this function and you're changing and recompiling that one defmethod form? yeah, that would cause this
2021-06-03T15:17:59Z nick3000: Yeah exactly.
2021-06-03T15:18:13Z Bike: i would just fmakunbound it entirely
2021-06-03T15:18:22Z Bike: (fmakunbound 'mul-single-place-by-word) and then recompile the defmethod form
2021-06-03T15:20:02Z nick3000: Okay thanks! That works.
2021-06-03T15:20:46Z Bike: great.
2021-06-03T15:21:22Z Bike: redefining generic function stuff is sometimes tricky because of the multiple methods. in this case it might seem obvious that the generic function should be essentially entirely overturned, but if there were other methods the situation would be more ambiguous.
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2021-06-03T21:55:13Z epony: White_Flame, the questions is why are lireba rebellarse still freenoding their nodelessness
2021-06-03T21:57:41Z epony: like when does the frankist spanish dictature of capital italic geranisation stop bombing its compat-riots.. ever (after stealing their babies and giving them to the rich colonialists)?
2021-06-03T21:58:12Z epony: (fascism = capitalism = spam)
2021-06-03T21:58:37Z epony: you see the connection betwee neo-nazi liberalism and neo-fascist nationalism?
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2021-06-03T22:01:14Z epony: same old is same new, it's just a false rename, a political campaign for agenda alignment that fools nobody
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2021-06-09T11:12:32Z p_l: kami: you might have better luck on #commonlisp @ libera.chat
2021-06-09T11:13:48Z p_l: plain IRC
2021-06-09T11:13:56Z p_l: run by former freenode staffers
2021-06-09T11:14:23Z p_l: I'm pretty much here just to redirect people, because we lost keys :D
2021-06-09T11:14:42Z p_l: kind of like that
2021-06-09T11:14:58Z p_l: there was a lot of drama, but essentially freenode got hostile takeover'd
2021-06-09T11:15:21Z p_l: o7
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2021-06-13T18:24:38Z Blkt [~pl@79.184.239.210.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Blkt)
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2021-06-13T18:25:06Z |3b| [~pl@79.184.239.210.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (migrated network)
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2021-06-15T09:49:46Z names: sellout ggoes hiroaki gigetoo bonz060 nicktick gpiero johnjay dim masp liberliver lonjil lowryder larme jellopudding shrysr ilmu alandipert lottaquestions_ krjt zaquest ccl-logbot
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2021-06-17T09:45:41Z v3gajerusalem: are we back?
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2021-06-17T12:14:36Z epony: as the 90ies ;-) everlasting
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2021-06-17T20:11:00Z francogrex: Hi what happened to this and all other channels on irc freenode?
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2021-06-18T02:31:40Z doulos05: Hi, I'm working on a simple script, I'm right on the edge of getting it to work, but I'm missing something obvious and I'm hoping someone can help.
2021-06-18T02:32:12Z doulos05: The code is here: https://github.com/jonathanabennett/gtd-review
2021-06-18T02:32:55Z doulos05: What I expect to happen is when I run this is that reads out the projects file, gets the projects list from taskwarrior, and then writes the union of those two back into the projects file.
2021-06-18T02:33:13Z doulos05: But what's actually happening seems to be that it just writes the projects list from taskwarrior into the file.
2021-06-18T02:34:04Z doulos05: Both the file and the output from taskwarrior are a list of strings.
2021-06-18T02:41:21Z X-Scale: doulos05: try #lisp on libera.chat
2021-06-18T02:46:53Z doulos05: thanks
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2021-06-18T08:46:58Z CVCCvdfv: Worth pointing out that IRC isn't necessarily the first choice for coordinating a response, but it is a great low-dependency, independent fallback. IRC runs on a stack that is completely independent from the rest of Google prod (it's just a Linux machine running an IRC daemon). So when almost everything else goes down, so long as basic network routing is still working, IRC is still up.
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2021-06-18T13:06:43Z francogrex: hi
2021-06-18T13:07:02Z francogrex: is this still the official lisp channel?
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2021-06-22T07:26:19Z rain3: Hello , (define-symbol-macro m1 :m1) ;; how to programatically check if 'm1 is a symbol macro?      (describe 'm1) ;; "'m1 names a symbol macro" 
2021-06-22T07:31:51Z rain3: I need something like fboundp . how can one define a (symbol-macrop) ?
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2021-06-22T11:55:16Z rain3: (setf (symbol-function '+) (symbol-function '-))
2021-06-22T11:55:16Z rain3: [Condition of type SB-EXT:SYMBOL-PACKAGE-LOCKED-ERROR] Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when setting the symbol-function of + . 
2021-06-22T11:55:16Z rain3: ;; why doesn't the following also signal Condition of type SB-EXT:SYMBOL-PACKAGE-LOCKED-ERROR ? why does it signal SB-INT:COMPILED-PROGRAM-ERROR , which doesn't have a Continue restart ? 
2021-06-22T11:55:16Z rain3: (flet ((+ (x y)
2021-06-22T11:55:17Z rain3: 	 (- x y)))
2021-06-22T11:55:19Z rain3:   (+ 3 2))
2021-06-22T11:55:20Z rain3: [Condition of type SB-INT:COMPILED-PROGRAM-ERROR] Execution of a form compiled with errors. Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when binding + as a local function while See also: The SBCL Manual, Node "Package Locks"
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2021-06-22T12:01:27Z TMA: rain3: (defun symbol-macro-p (symbol) (let* (r (*macroexpand-hook* (lambda (fn fm e) (declare (ignore fn fm e)) (setf r t)))) (macroexpand-1 symbol) r))
2021-06-22T12:02:12Z rain3: thank you
2021-06-22T12:02:22Z TMA: well, it shall probably (and (symbolp symbol) ...) as well
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2021-06-24T09:26:23Z rain3: :package-inferred-system won't work with custom defpackage% macros? it can infer only if I manually type a defpackage definition ?
2021-06-24T09:40:18Z rain3: is there any way to make a macro which instead of macroexpanding to (progn (action1) (action2)) it tricks the reader to believe it read two forms (action1) (action2) one after another?
2021-06-24T09:45:35Z TMA: rain3: "Starting with release 3.1.2, ASDF supports a one-package-per-file style of programming, in which each file is its own system, and dependencies are deduced from the defpackage form or its variant, uiop:define-package." https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/The-package_002dinferred_002dsystem-extension.html
2021-06-24T09:46:54Z TMA: rain3: no, there is not. it is exactly why progn is special, so that the nested forms of a top-level progn are considered top-level as well
2021-06-24T09:47:00Z rain3: I gonna patch asdf/package-inferred-system::package-dependencies for myself to make it recognize my own defpacage% forms
2021-06-24T09:47:39Z rain3: my defpacage% expands into (progn (defpackage .. automated stuff here.) (something else))
2021-06-24T09:48:21Z rain3: asdf/package-inferred-system::package-dependencies   only knows to parse  (defpackage .... ) if its the outmost form
2021-06-24T09:49:38Z rain3: (pushnew 'defpackage% ASDF/PACKAGE-INFERRED-SYSTEM:*DEFPACKAGE-FORMS*)
2021-06-24T09:57:54Z rain3: it worked
2021-06-24T10:15:29Z rain3: can :serial t be used with ..:class :package-inferred-system.. ?
2021-06-24T10:17:10Z rain3: ok I solved it by using :depends-on , twice , first to load some core dependencies from my sourcecode, and secondly to load the rest of the code (which doesn't listen to any :serial t)
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2021-06-24T13:21:53Z rain3: made some changes and now it doesn't take the first :depends-on as the first . hmm 
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2021-06-24T13:39:52Z rain3: https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/The-package_002dinferred_002dsystem-extension.html    what does :mix do ?
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2021-06-24T13:45:23Z rain3: my guess is that it uses those packages and automatically shadows conflicting symbols
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2021-06-24T16:14:09Z rain3: regarding my :depends-on problem above, ,I had to split the system in 2 , and first load the core system that defines the macros, because package-inferred-system s can't specify the order you want to load the files. to get an order, one can split and use the 1st one as a dependency
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2021-06-25T13:16:29Z hoijui: hello! :-)
2021-06-25T13:16:56Z hoijui: I am a coder since almost 2 decades, but only now really... found my way to lisp.
2021-06-25T13:17:05Z hoijui: or say.. want to get into it
2021-06-25T13:17:40Z hoijui: I somehow.. never knew.. what it was (apart from "an old,  functional language with lots of brackets and lists")
2021-06-25T13:17:48Z hoijui: now... where do I start?
2021-06-25T13:18:16Z hoijui: I mena.. I read some, but how do I choose which.. flavor I should learn?
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2021-06-25T14:04:37Z rain3_: hoijui: start with this chapter: https://gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-simple-database.html
2021-06-25T14:07:03Z rain3_: install sbcl , put it in your path , then write lisp code using vim or any editor you like and use (load "myfile") inside sbcl to tell it load your code ; experiment like that for a while then for a better live interaction with the code (compiling a function or any part of the program just by clicking, viewing the value of a variable by clicking it, etc) , install emacs with slime 
2021-06-25T14:07:38Z rain3_: then you can do stuff like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzTH_ZqaFKI
2021-06-25T14:10:10Z rain3_: if you're on linux use rlwrap
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2021-06-25T15:36:31Z hoijui: rlwrap.. wow! That sounds like what I was once looking for.. I coudl not put it correctly into concepts/words. With this, I could also implement a kind of auto-correct system, that works system/Os wide, right?
2021-06-25T15:36:39Z hoijui: why do I need it for lisp?
2021-06-25T15:37:41Z hoijui: and yeah.. I am a vim user. not religious about it, but I really do not want to learn .. something else .. is a similar experience possible without emacs (be it vim or.. a traditional IDE or so?
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2021-06-25T15:38:09Z hoijui: or maybe.. use emacs with vim mode or something? :D
2021-06-25T15:38:44Z hoijui: It is not even that I am lazy to learn, but I am learning SO muhc right now already, and this is somethign I would really not want t learn at the moment (Emacs)
2021-06-25T15:39:53Z hoijui: and yeah I am on linux, rain3_
2021-06-25T15:40:07Z hoijui: and. thank you!
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2021-06-25T15:43:32Z hoijui: ah.. rlwrap is not system wide :D
2021-06-25T15:44:39Z hoijui: ohh...
2021-06-25T15:44:50Z hoijui: `rlwrap sbcl`, niiice!
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2021-06-27T17:11:53Z hoijui: I once started learning Scala, and I stopped, because there were too many ways to do the same thing, and I could not imagine how a team of people could work together on the same piece of software. they would constantly change things to be more the way they like to do them. or there would have to be a lot of extra rules, checking/restraining the devs into using the one style that is chosen as the one for the project. of course, that 
2021-06-27T17:11:53Z hoijui: happens with every language to some extend, more or less, but there it was too much, I though. Is this also a problem with Lisp?
2021-06-27T17:12:30Z hoijui: or say... how does the power of Lisp compare vs working on a software in a team?
2021-06-27T17:13:07Z hoijui: in practice; are there many issues about that, or not?
2021-06-27T17:35:24Z rain3: https://www.infoq.com/news/2007/10/lisp-for-agile-teams/
2021-06-27T17:36:05Z rain3: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/building-cloud-choosing-lisp-because-nobody-told-me-i-mason-browne
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2021-06-27T18:52:43Z rain3: https://www.grammarly.com/blog/engineering/running-lisp-in-production/#comment-2902795302
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2021-06-27T19:34:58Z asarch: Is there a short way to get 10 from (car (cdr (car (cdr (car '('(id 10)))))))?
2021-06-27T19:35:21Z asarch: I mean, from '('(id 10))?
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2021-06-28T05:39:36Z hoijui: rain3, the 3 links you provided to me on saturday, talk about teams developing software in Lisp, but as muhc as I could see, there is nothing in all tree of them about how the working-together plays out, when using Lisp (which was my question).
2021-06-28T05:40:04Z hoijui: but.. it's fine, I am sure I will figure it out somehow myself, over time.
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