2020-07-01T00:04:41Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-01T00:05:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:07:57Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T00:08:21Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:10:04Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:11:55Z slyrus__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T00:12:40Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T00:13:51Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:14:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T00:14:32Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:17:28Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T00:17:54Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:19:05Z efm quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-01T00:22:53Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T00:23:16Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:23:26Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T00:23:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:24:22Z beach quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T00:24:32Z beach joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:27:28Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T00:27:50Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:28:06Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T00:28:23Z cmatei joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:31:08Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:38:50Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:41:43Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T00:48:28Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T00:49:28Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:53:38Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T00:54:12Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-01T00:55:41Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-01T00:58:25Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T00:59:10Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:00:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:00:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:08:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:09:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:10:04Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:11:03Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:13:25Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:14:06Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:14:09Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:16:22Z stoneglass left #lisp
2020-07-01T01:17:00Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:18:03Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow)
2020-07-01T01:19:31Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:19:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:22:07Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:23:16Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:23:37Z libertyprime quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T01:23:37Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:24:02Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:24:08Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:24:42Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:24:43Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:27:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:27:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:31:02Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-01T01:32:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T01:33:32Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:33:53Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:34:17Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:37:28Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T01:37:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:37:53Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:38:47Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T01:39:39Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:40:41Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:52:47Z vhost- quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-01T01:53:14Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T01:59:20Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:00:59Z vhost- joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:01:00Z vhost- quit (Changing host)
2020-07-01T02:01:00Z vhost- joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:01:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T02:01:32Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:12:13Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:22:26Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T02:22:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:27:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T02:30:25Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:31:18Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T02:31:55Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:32:50Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:38:27Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T02:48:11Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:49:22Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:49:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T02:56:30Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T02:57:57Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T02:58:54Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T02:59:23Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-01T02:59:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T03:04:56Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T03:05:46Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T03:07:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T03:07:49Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T03:08:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T03:10:25Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T03:11:41Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T03:17:32Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-01T03:17:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T03:18:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T03:23:34Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-01T03:33:30Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-01T03:42:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T03:42:58Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T03:43:30Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-01T03:43:31Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T03:44:23Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-01T03:52:27Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T03:52:50Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T03:53:12Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-01T04:01:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T04:02:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T04:02:47Z thmprover quit (Quit: This parting was well made)
2020-07-01T04:07:57Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T04:12:26Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-01T04:12:54Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-01T04:17:53Z julio joined #lisp
2020-07-01T04:18:16Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T04:26:46Z shangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T04:32:43Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T04:36:53Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T04:41:14Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-01T04:45:13Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T04:45:41Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-01T04:49:16Z julio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T04:51:47Z julio quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T04:57:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T04:58:06Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-01T04:58:19Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:00:05Z kinope quit
2020-07-01T05:02:39Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T05:03:04Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:05:30Z gekkou quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9-dev)
2020-07-01T05:05:41Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T05:12:57Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T05:13:31Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:15:22Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:16:06Z Christ0pher quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-01T05:17:37Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T05:18:31Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T05:18:35Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:22:28Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T05:27:37Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:34:48Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:35:41Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:36:20Z julio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:37:58Z asarch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T05:38:34Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:39:02Z julio_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T05:39:35Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:42:54Z aindilis quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T05:44:16Z aindilis` joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:48:54Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T05:49:39Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:51:07Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T05:52:44Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-01T05:53:50Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T05:56:45Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-01T06:00:24Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:04:07Z frgo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T06:06:10Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:06:23Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:07:13Z julio__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T06:08:59Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T06:11:05Z Bourne quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T06:12:11Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:15:05Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-01T06:15:47Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T06:19:14Z julio joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:23:53Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T06:25:53Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:26:40Z akkad_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T06:27:19Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:30:13Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T06:36:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:40:00Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:43:30Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:46:43Z Codaraxis_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:50:20Z Codaraxis__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T06:54:14Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-01T06:55:02Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-01T06:55:46Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-01T06:56:12Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:03:21Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:07:06Z varjag joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:13:32Z julio quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T07:20:56Z nate48423 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:21:03Z nate48423: the american government and denaro are getting my human brain they are able to have me not able to comprehend and change my taste of drinks and food at times. can you please tell your world leaders to help me I am  nathan biernatt if you have questions you can message me
2020-07-01T07:21:25Z ChanServ has set mode +o phoe
2020-07-01T07:21:30Z phoe has set mode +b *!*nate48423@50.105.119.*
2020-07-01T07:21:30Z nate48423 [~phoe@2001:19f0:5:689f:5400:2ff:fe77:b1de] has been kicked from #lisp by phoe (okay)
2020-07-01T07:21:33Z ChanServ has set mode -o phoe
2020-07-01T07:27:02Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-01T07:29:37Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T07:30:06Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T07:38:03Z fluxwave joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:38:22Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T07:42:20Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:43:01Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:44:35Z Oladon quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T07:47:16Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:50:28Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T07:50:43Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:52:14Z ech quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T07:52:15Z rgherdt quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T07:52:32Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:54:19Z ech joined #lisp
2020-07-01T07:58:58Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T08:01:12Z remexre quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-01T08:13:21Z gko joined #lisp
2020-07-01T08:18:54Z Cymew joined #lisp
2020-07-01T08:20:28Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T08:24:59Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-01T08:27:54Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-01T08:37:47Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T08:37:53Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-01T08:41:22Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-01T08:46:29Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-01T08:46:40Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T08:46:59Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-01T08:50:26Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-01T08:53:32Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T08:54:26Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T08:54:42Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-01T08:54:50Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-01T08:55:19Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-01T09:14:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T09:17:06Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-01T09:21:24Z frgo_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T09:23:40Z frgo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-01T09:26:10Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-01T09:26:57Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-01T09:30:48Z rawr is now known as grumble
2020-07-01T09:31:56Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-01T09:43:51Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-01T09:49:03Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T09:49:03Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-01T09:49:14Z simendsjo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T09:49:47Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-01T09:50:16Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T09:53:07Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T09:54:12Z jdz: Xach: sr.ht supports Mercurial, so maybe some authors may want to move the projects there?
2020-07-01T10:09:24Z rgherdt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-01T10:10:22Z Lord_of_Life quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-01T10:11:16Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-01T10:11:55Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-01T10:21:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T10:23:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-01T10:26:47Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T10:26:52Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T10:28:07Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-01T10:30:16Z adlai joined #lisp
2020-07-01T10:31:15Z adlai: should typos in the hyperspec be corrected in the hyperspec, rather than left as found, for consistency with the original standards document?
2020-07-01T10:31:48Z adlai: e.g., :pre-line-prefix in paragraph 3 of http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_ppr_lo.htm
2020-07-01T10:33:11Z _death: they should be noted in https://www.cliki.net/ANSI%20Clarifications%20and%20Errata .. which already has this one
2020-07-01T10:35:39Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-01T10:41:17Z Bourne quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T10:47:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T10:47:28Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T10:49:31Z adlai: _death: thank you
2020-07-01T10:54:05Z rgherdt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-01T10:55:31Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-01T10:55:51Z phoe: adlai: CLHS is immutable because of its licensing
2020-07-01T10:58:34Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-01T10:58:41Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-01T10:59:32Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:04:45Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:06:11Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T11:13:56Z adlai: who here is familiar with the workings of quickdocs? I am displeased that it does not list any Requirements in http://quickdocs.org/scalpl
2020-07-01T11:15:00Z adlai is currently reading through a likely culprit, https://github.com/quickdocs/quickdocs-extracter
2020-07-01T11:18:33Z adlai wonders whether there is a specific reason that quickdocs.org has not updated the quicklisp dist since december 2019
2020-07-01T11:19:45Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T11:20:13Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-01T11:20:42Z zooey joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:22:54Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:28:07Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:29:19Z libertyprime quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T11:30:16Z phoe: adlai: fukamachiware™
2020-07-01T11:30:58Z phoe: or alternatively Yet Another Abandoned Lisp Project That Is Half-Useful Half-Harmful™
2020-07-01T11:31:09Z phoe: and it's not like I'm without fault here, UltraSpec also belongs on that list
2020-07-01T11:32:22Z Codaraxis joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:32:28Z adlai adjusts phoe's Venn diagram: there are useless harms, useful harmlessnesses, etc
2020-07-01T11:33:14Z adlai: or perhaps: "The opposite of 'abandoned' is not 'maintained'."
2020-07-01T11:33:35Z phoe: yes, correct
2020-07-01T11:33:51Z Xach: Hmm, bitbucket has not yet deleted hg repos.
2020-07-01T11:33:54Z adlai: at least you didn't say "yeah, right", then we'd both be confused
2020-07-01T11:33:58Z phoe: there are projects that don't cause confusion when they are left unmaintained.
2020-07-01T11:34:02Z phoe: or abandoned.
2020-07-01T11:34:06Z phoe: or just don't see activity.
2020-07-01T11:34:09Z Xach: I wonder if they're just going through them alphabetically
2020-07-01T11:34:15Z Xach: one per day
2020-07-01T11:34:25Z phoe: projects that are supposed to be always fresh don't belong on that list though
2020-07-01T11:34:29Z mrcom quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2020-07-01T11:34:57Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:35:11Z Codaraxis_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T11:35:22Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:35:30Z adlai: e.g., sheeple has had neither new features, nor bugs fixed, for about a decade, and I consider that library both maintained and abandoned
2020-07-01T11:36:38Z phoe: it's also called "complete"
2020-07-01T11:36:49Z adlai: apparently a handful of other libraries depend on it to a sufficiently minor degree that it does not require any of the unfinished work to be continued
2020-07-01T11:37:19Z adlai: it could arguably be considered complete, although iirc it is quite far from having thorough test coverage
2020-07-01T11:37:52Z splittist: discovery is a hard problem exacerbated by the community's penchant for quirky naming
2020-07-01T11:39:08Z adlai recalls burning out somewhere between "reach sufficient unit test coverage that the lock-free parallelizable parts can be identified", and "steal yet another optimiziation from the open-source CLOS implementations"
2020-07-01T11:39:14Z varjag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T11:40:03Z _death: "complete" is a myth.. many libraries can easily be improved upon
2020-07-01T11:41:35Z kinope quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T11:41:36Z phoe: _death: okay, s/complete/good enough/
2020-07-01T11:42:04Z splittist: complete === perfect?
2020-07-01T11:42:19Z gxt_ is now known as gxt
2020-07-01T11:42:41Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:43:52Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T11:44:01Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:44:05Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-01T11:44:56Z adlai: only in normative linguistics does (eq english:complete english:perfect) return T
2020-07-01T11:45:46Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-01T11:46:01Z adlai: since the "perfect tense" is used for actions that have been completed by the time of their description
2020-07-01T11:47:38Z adlai: a metaphor that I've always found helpful when thinking about software vitrification is that of annealing, where eventually it becomes impossible to tell whether the local optimum is the global one, although you don't care anymore, because the search space has been constrained such that the local optimum is by definition the optimal optimum.
2020-07-01T11:50:06Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T11:54:52Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T11:55:11Z rippa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T11:57:59Z samebchase quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T12:00:33Z Colleen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T12:03:50Z stepnem quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-01T12:06:23Z nopf quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T12:10:22Z enrio quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2020-07-01T12:12:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:15:15Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:16:16Z _death: it doesn't always go towards stability.. maybe software seismology is more apt
2020-07-01T12:17:22Z winny quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T12:24:42Z winny joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:29:39Z Colleen joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:29:40Z Xach: clontinental drift
2020-07-01T12:29:40Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:29:41Z _death: shake-lisp-and-die
2020-07-01T12:29:41Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-01T12:29:42Z jackdaniel: clad-lisp-and-die (clad:)
2020-07-01T12:29:42Z nopf joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:29:43Z kinope quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T12:29:44Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:29:45Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:29:48Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:29:48Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:29:49Z enrio quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T12:29:49Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:29:50Z kinope quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T12:29:51Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:31:14Z samebchase joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:36:34Z simendsjo quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91))
2020-07-01T12:43:26Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:44:19Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:45:58Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:47:55Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T12:47:58Z papachan joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:48:56Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:49:44Z montxero joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:49:52Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:53:59Z Ziemas quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T12:55:19Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:56:49Z jdz joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:56:50Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:56:51Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T12:56:51Z Ziemas_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T12:56:53Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-01T13:07:51Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T13:07:59Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T13:08:41Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T13:08:42Z simendsjo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T13:12:30Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T13:12:51Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T13:20:17Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-01T13:21:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T13:24:25Z adlai: it gets even worse when you combine the inherent instabilities of software seismology, with attempts to reason about it using floating-point arithmetic.
2020-07-01T13:24:48Z adlai: speaking of sheeple, I wonder what ever happened to CLON
2020-07-01T13:26:50Z Xach: which one?
2020-07-01T13:27:02Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-01T13:27:14Z adlai: the "CL Object Network". this is actually unfortunate, the author decided to scrub away most of his work from the public internet. oh well.
2020-07-01T13:27:38Z phoe: https://www.cliki.net/Clon
2020-07-01T13:27:39Z phoe: there's three
2020-07-01T13:28:33Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-01T13:29:03Z adlai remembers enjoying DTO's games, a decade ago.
2020-07-01T13:30:48Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T13:30:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T13:37:02Z kinope quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T13:38:04Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-01T13:38:54Z montxero quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T13:41:19Z adlai can't tell what exactly went wrong, other than a disagreement over intellectual property; anyway, this is off-topic
2020-07-01T13:59:18Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:00:49Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T14:00:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:10:22Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:17:13Z elflng quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T14:17:35Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:18:26Z Codaraxis quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-01T14:18:46Z Codaraxis joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:21:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T14:22:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:24:13Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T14:26:07Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:27:38Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:28:18Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-01T14:28:55Z RedMallet quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-01T14:30:25Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:30:48Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:31:07Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-01T14:31:16Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:36:12Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T14:36:13Z narimiran quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-01T14:36:53Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:37:35Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:37:44Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T14:38:16Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:39:28Z aindilis` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T14:41:05Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:41:18Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:46:12Z gareppa joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:46:49Z gareppa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T14:47:54Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:48:17Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-01T14:49:55Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T14:57:38Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T15:00:27Z efm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T15:03:15Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-01T15:05:05Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T15:05:40Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-01T15:11:29Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-01T15:25:50Z efm_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-01T15:29:15Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T15:31:35Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-01T15:31:35Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-01T15:31:35Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-01T15:48:45Z julio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T15:49:47Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T15:52:42Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T15:56:47Z cantstanya quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T15:58:46Z cantstanya joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:10:52Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:11:16Z joels: Hello all
2020-07-01T16:11:32Z beach: Hello joels.
2020-07-01T16:12:28Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T16:12:52Z beach: joels: Are you new here?  I don't recognize your nick.
2020-07-01T16:12:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:13:16Z joels: Yes quite new. new to #Lisp and new to Lisp ;)
2020-07-01T16:13:30Z beach: Great!  Welcome!
2020-07-01T16:13:36Z joels: Thanks thanks
2020-07-01T16:13:44Z phoe: hey hi helloooo
2020-07-01T16:14:00Z beach: joels: There is also #clschool for truly elementary questions.
2020-07-01T16:14:09Z joels: thanks
2020-07-01T16:14:33Z beach: So you plan to learn Common Lisp?
2020-07-01T16:15:02Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:15:34Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T16:15:50Z phoe: beach's question stems from the fact that #lisp is a Common Lisp place; other lisp dialects have their own channels, like #racket, #scheme, #clojure and so forth
2020-07-01T16:15:51Z joels: Would like to do that at some point.
2020-07-01T16:16:02Z phoe: there's also #lispcafe for general off-topic discussions and general hanging out
2020-07-01T16:16:15Z joels: ah #lispcafe sounds good
2020-07-01T16:17:47Z julio_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T16:17:57Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:17:59Z joels: If I recall, the book "land of lisp" is on CL. do you find it a good introduction ?
2020-07-01T16:18:32Z beach: If you already know how to program in some other language, the general recommendation is PCL.
2020-07-01T16:18:40Z beach: minion: Please tell joels about PCL.
2020-07-01T16:18:40Z minion: joels: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2020-07-01T16:19:07Z joels: ah
2020-07-01T16:19:54Z joels: Thanks
2020-07-01T16:20:12Z beach: His advice about a development environment is a bit dated.  These days we recommend Portacle, unless you already use Emacs, in which case we just recommend you install SLIME.
2020-07-01T16:21:42Z joels: Emacs is fine ;)
2020-07-01T16:21:53Z phoe: perfect then
2020-07-01T16:22:04Z joels: I have tried my hands on a tiny bit of emacs-lisp
2020-07-01T16:22:30Z beach: I should have said we recommend you install Quicklisp and then use Quicklisp to install SLIME.
2020-07-01T16:22:57Z beach: joels: You should not have much trouble with Common Lisp then.
2020-07-01T16:23:02Z joels: Oh thats another question by the way what is the CL implementation to use SBCL?
2020-07-01T16:23:08Z phoe: SBCL is the most popular one
2020-07-01T16:23:18Z phoe: so also the most supported one, I guess
2020-07-01T16:23:31Z joels: cool
2020-07-01T16:23:58Z phoe: if you use any kind of emacs distribution such as spacemacs and/or doom emacs, then you can follow its instructions for installing CL stuff
2020-07-01T16:24:10Z phoe: for instance, spacemacs has its common-lisp layer that includes slime along with its configuration
2020-07-01T16:24:14Z phoe: I'm using it that way
2020-07-01T16:24:24Z phoe: otherwise, use quicklisp and (ql:quickload :quicklisp-slime-helper)
2020-07-01T16:24:29Z joels: ah
2020-07-01T16:24:41Z phoe: then emacs should become slime-aware
2020-07-01T16:24:48Z phoe: and mostly configured to use it
2020-07-01T16:25:11Z joels: Thanks for the help
2020-07-01T16:33:00Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T16:33:10Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-01T16:35:12Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T16:35:47Z joels: that seemed to work actually. cool. (ql:quickload :quicklisp-slime-helper)
2020-07-01T16:36:25Z joels: emacs is in "Lisp adoc Slime" mode
2020-07-01T16:37:04Z phoe: you mean the repl, or a Lisp file?
2020-07-01T16:37:22Z joels: lisp file
2020-07-01T16:37:27Z phoe: looks OK
2020-07-01T16:38:46Z joels: M-x slime started a repl
2020-07-01T16:39:57Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:40:03Z phoe: perfect
2020-07-01T16:40:05Z phoe: happy hacking!
2020-07-01T16:40:29Z joels: thansk
2020-07-01T16:40:35Z phoe: no rpoblem
2020-07-01T16:43:11Z joels: This will take some time getting used to ;)
2020-07-01T16:44:50Z beach: joels: A typical way of working would be to split the Emacs frame into a REPL window and a source-file window.
2020-07-01T16:46:01Z beach: joels: You would then type your code in the source file and either compile it with C-c C-k (if I remember correctly), or when you learn a bit more, you would create an ASDF file and load your code that way.
2020-07-01T16:46:40Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-01T16:47:34Z akrl`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T16:47:48Z phoe: https://i.imgur.com/QtORSkj.png <- that's what my emacs window looks like right now
2020-07-01T16:47:48Z akrl`` joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:48:12Z phoe: I do C-c on the left pane to compile-and-load individual functions
2020-07-01T16:48:18Z phoe: or rather, forms
2020-07-01T16:48:30Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:49:07Z joels: Right having a repl and editor open side by side is very nice
2020-07-01T16:49:24Z jw4 quit (Quit: tot siens)
2020-07-01T16:49:25Z joels: I managed to load a file by doing (load "apa.lisp")
2020-07-01T16:50:28Z phoe: that's one way of loading files in Lisp
2020-07-01T16:50:33Z phoe: not very slimeful
2020-07-01T16:50:36Z phoe: but possbile
2020-07-01T16:50:48Z phoe: usually I open a Lisp file and do C-c C-k to compile-and-load the whole file
2020-07-01T16:51:07Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:52:06Z joels: right. C-c C-k seems fine
2020-07-01T16:55:07Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:56:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T16:57:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T16:57:49Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T17:00:27Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:00:38Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T17:00:54Z Josh_2: Evening
2020-07-01T17:01:05Z joels: Good evening
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z theBlackDragon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z nckx quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z femi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z tessier quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z zymurgy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z jurov quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z ssake quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z azrazalea quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z ft quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z phadthai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z natj212 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z tomaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z xi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z z0d quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z lieven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z esotericalgo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:47Z liamz[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:48Z Josh_2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:48Z ahungry quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:48Z simendsjo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:48Z stepnem quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:48Z Colleen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:48Z random-nick quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:48Z igemnace quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:48Z scymtym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:48Z APic quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:48Z oxum quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z oldtopman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z liberliver quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z quazimodo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z cg505 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z hiroaki quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z ChoHag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z grobe0ba quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z karstensrage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z SAL9000 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z shrysr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z seisatsu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z bacterio quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z thijso quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z easye quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z vert2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z selwyn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z rme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z mpontillo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z cantstanya quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z zooey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z madage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z gxt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:49Z MrtnDk[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z camlriot42 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z unl0ckd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z abbe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z ebrasca quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z shangul quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z midre quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z rumbler31_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z emacsomancer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z karlosz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z gigetoo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z epony quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z Necktwi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z stux|RC quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z null_ptr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z narendraj9 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z dlowe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:50Z vsync quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z drewc quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z idxu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z boeg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z eMBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z Firedancer_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z cosimone quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z pve quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z teej quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z jello_pudding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z splittist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z kopiyka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z sz0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:51Z jasom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z devrtz_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z xristos quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z neheist2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z avicenna quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z terrorjack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z dnm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z shinohai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z larme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z interruptinuse quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z hydan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z yottabyte quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z lispyone_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z cpt_nemo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z jerme_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z spal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z mbrumlow_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z phoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z jackhill quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z kim\ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:52Z eschatologist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:53Z rabuf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:53Z felideon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:53Z CommanderViral quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:53Z hiredman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:53Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:53Z MightyJoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z infra_red[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z doublex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z simplegauss quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z gjnoonan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z kilimanjaro quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z pent quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z stylewarning quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z terpri_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z winny quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z _whitelogger quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z yonkunas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:54Z justache quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z chipolux quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z voidlily quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z dxtr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z markasoftware quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z moon-child quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z Grauwolf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z knobo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z orivej quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z akrl`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z RedMallet quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z fluxwave quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z Krystof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z jibanes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z jackdaniel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:55Z thecoffemaker quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z v3ga quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z funnel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z loli quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z Kaisyu7 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z Khisanth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z Fade quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z Kabriel_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z cpape quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z contrapunctus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z TMA quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z MetaYan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z matijja quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z luis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z Ankhers quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z jgkamat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z kapil_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z sbryant quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z yang quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:56Z mr_yogurt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z drot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z cybercafe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z rotty quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z mgr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z jw4 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z Codaraxis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z nopf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z Bike quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z frgo_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z Cymew quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z shka_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z edgar-rft quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z zaquest quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z cmatei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z d4ryus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z DGASAU quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z Harag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z joast quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z Lord_Nightmare quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z vaporatorius quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z adlai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z White_Flame quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z nullheroes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z mtd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z axion quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z Tordek quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z minion quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z r3x5- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z gabiruh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:57Z lad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z fengshaun quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z grumble quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z cracauer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z XachX quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z RagnarDanneskjol quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z bhartrihari quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z astronavt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z [df] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z payphone quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z Gnuxie[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z userself quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z zagura quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z swflint quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z |3b| quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:58Z thonkpod quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z zigpaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z joels quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z v88m quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z dominic34 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z aindilis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z sjl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z knuckles quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z OpenZen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z Ziemas_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z gravicappa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z _roman_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z hhdave quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z Posterdati quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z Frobozz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z Archenoth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z spacebat1 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z q-u-a-n2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z nightfly_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z ult quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z Inoperable quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z Guest9274 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z jxy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z ozzloy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z nydel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z trn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:15:59Z c_nix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z rgherdt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z samebchase quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z sgithens quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z flocks quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z sammich quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z even4void[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z cairn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z physpi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z fowlduck quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z jlpeters quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z vutral quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:00Z gaze__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z saturn2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z stux|RC-only quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z SomeB quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z housel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z rvirding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z jhei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z ffwacom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z gaqwas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z bitmapper quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z jprajzne quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z xrash quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z mathrick quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z vhost- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z Xach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z Jesin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z dale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z dilated_dinosaur quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z lavaflow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z hineios730393479 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z bonz060 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z srji quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z shymega quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:01Z _Ark_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z niceplace quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z Ekho quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z penguwin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z guaqua quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z OMGOMG quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z leo_song quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z HDurer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z Bourne quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z jesse1010 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z X-Scale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z ech quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:02Z davsebamse quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z datajerk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z solrize quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z CrazyEddy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z madand quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z kini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z cross quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z gko`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z snits quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z pok quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z jfb4_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z cgay quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z AdmiralBumbleBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z shenghi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z GreaseMonkey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:03Z lowryder quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:04Z trittweiler quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:04Z add^_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:04Z himmAllRight quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:04Z brass quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:04Z jonatack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:04Z userone quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:04Z heredoc quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:04Z travv0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:04Z katco quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:04Z bytesighs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z chewbranca quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z parisienne___ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z p_l quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z conjunctive quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z mgsk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z lukego quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z billstclair quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z ssd532 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z l1x quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z rumpelszn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:05Z Grue`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:06Z Demosthenex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:06Z papachan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:06Z beach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:06Z HiRE quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:06Z Kaisyu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:06Z drmeister quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:06Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:06Z tfb quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:06Z Yardanico quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:07Z entel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:07Z jmercouris quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:08Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:08Z jsatk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:08Z Balooga quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:08Z banjiewen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:08Z bkst_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:08Z ecraven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:08Z ioa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z creat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z fe[nl]ix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z Blkt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z otwieracz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z sveit quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z beaky quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z gingerale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z Odin- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z SumoSud0- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:09Z chrpape quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:10Z theseb quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:10Z mrcom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:10Z elflng quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:10Z wsinatra quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:10Z Lord_of_Life quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:10Z bocaneri quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:10Z notzmv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z h11 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z nitrix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z Mandus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z Zotan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z xlei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z rixard quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z eta quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z nullman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z malm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z eagleflo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:11Z hjudt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z alandipert quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z hvxgr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z tazjin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z dim quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z cods quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z mjl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z jbgg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z gabot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z micro_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z justinmcp quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z drainful quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z catern quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z kbtr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z borodust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z cdegroot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z mgsk_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:12Z kingcons quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:13Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:16:13Z wigust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:18:47Z ccl-logbot joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:18:47Z 
2020-07-01T17:18:47Z names: ccl-logbot troydm gendl xantoz tumdum_ froggey ramus tephra hdasch Josh_2 orivej zigpaw jw4 RedMallet akrl`` jonatack joels cantstanya terpri_ gaqwas theseb v88m dominic34 userone aindilis ebrasca ahungry sjl whiteline mrcom simendsjo knuckles Codaraxis elflng OpenZen bitmapper shangul cosimone jprajzne midre Ziemas_ jdz papachan Bourne samebchase wsinatra contrapunctus rumbler31_ nopf stepnem Colleen winny Bike pve zooey xrash adlai Lord_of_Life
2020-07-01T17:18:47Z names: _whitelogger jesse1010 X-Scale random-nick frgo_ Cymew gko ech fluxwave mathrick bhartrihari bocaneri gravicappa shka_ edgar-rft zaquest davsebamse vhost- igemnace cmatei beach heredoc _roman_ Xach arbv MightyJoe sgithens travv0 yonkunas flocks Krystof scymtym justache emacsomancer karlosz dale dilated_dinosaur jibanes lavaflow notzmv hineios730393479 jackdaniel theBlackDragon d4ryus HiRE APic liamz[m] sammich katco even4void[m] cairn Gnuxie[m]
2020-07-01T17:18:47Z names: infra_red[m] MrtnDk[m] camlriot42 userself unl0ckd nckx oxum DGASAU teej bytesighs physpi fowlduck drmeister Kaisyu jlpeters asedeno tfb thecoffemaker Harag Aurora_v_kosmose bonz060 h11 doublex Yardanico hhdave v3ga madage joast funnel gigetoo epony chipolux akkad gxt Lord_Nightmare Necktwi jello_pudding nitrix vaporatorius stux|RC splittist oldtopman loli Posterdati kopiyka datajerk liberliver solrize sz0 quazimodo CrazyEddy karstensrage srji entel jasom
2020-07-01T17:18:47Z names: Frobozz simplegauss null_ptr xristos devrtz_ cg505 abbe Archenoth Kaisyu7 hiroaki Mandus Zotan ChoHag xlei shymega rixard grobe0ba Khisanth Fade eta mrSpec nullman narendraj9 _Ark_ White_Flame malm nullheroes mtd SAL9000 eagleflo voidlily shrysr spacebat1 axion hjudt neheist2 dlowe avicenna seisatsu q-u-a-n2 Tordek mpontillo rme selwyn vert2 easye thijso bacterio niceplace minion vsync madand nightfly_ jmercouris terrorjack r3x5- Nikotiini kini Ekho copec
2020-07-01T17:18:47Z names: Kabriel_ dnm alandipert penguwin shinohai hvxgr gabiruh ult gjnoonan tazjin vutral chewbranca parisienne___ p_l conjunctive mgsk lukego gaze__ billstclair ssd532 l1x Firedancer_ eMBee ski boeg idxu drewc kilimanjaro pent saturn2 stylewarning johs hiredman CommanderViral felideon rabuf eschatologist kim\ jackhill phoe mbrumlow_ spal jerme_ cpt_nemo lispyone_ yottabyte hydan interruptinuse larme knobo Grauwolf moon-child markasoftware dxtr HDurer _death
2020-07-01T17:18:47Z names: leo_song OMGOMG guaqua esotericalgo lieven z0d xi fiddlerwoaroof tomaw natj212 phadthai ft azrazalea ssake jurov ck_ tessier zymurgy femi borodust Robdgreat kingcons kbtr_ lonjil cdegroot mgsk_ mood wigust dim cods mjl jbgg gabot micro_ justinmcp drainful catern rumpelszn Grue`` Demosthenex Balooga banjiewen bkst_ ecraven ioa creat @fe[nl]ix Blkt otwieracz sveit beaky gingerale Odin- SumoSud0- antoszka chrpape cross gko`` snits pok jfb4_ cgay
2020-07-01T17:18:47Z names: AdmiralBumbleBee shenghi GreaseMonkey lowryder trittweiler add^_ himmAllRight brass stux|RC-only SomeB housel rvirding jhei ffwacom Inoperable Guest9274 aap jxy ozzloy nydel trn c_nix zagura swflint |3b| thonkpod jsatk lad fengshaun grumble cracauer XachX RagnarDanneskjol astronavt [df] payphone drot cybercafe rotty mgr_ flip214 cpape TMA MetaYan matijja luis Ankhers jgkamat kapil_ sbryant mr_yogurt yang
2020-07-01T17:18:49Z Ziemas_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T17:19:13Z cyberlard joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:20:28Z ntr joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:21:27Z aeth joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:21:49Z glamas joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:22:20Z Frobozz_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:23:13Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T17:23:39Z Ziemas joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:24:13Z Frobozz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T17:25:14Z joels: Is that a game you are working on there, phoe?
2020-07-01T17:25:56Z RedMallet quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z Josh_2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z ahungry quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z simendsjo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z stepnem quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z Colleen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z random-nick quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z igemnace quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z scymtym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z APic quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z oxum quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z oldtopman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z liberliver quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:22Z quazimodo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z cg505 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z hiroaki quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z ChoHag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z grobe0ba quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z karstensrage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z SAL9000 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z shrysr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z seisatsu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z bacterio quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z thijso quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z easye quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z vert2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z selwyn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z rme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:26:23Z mpontillo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T17:28:06Z phoe: joels: yes, so far it's implementing https://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z dvdmuckle joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z loke` joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z sukaeto joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z Colleen joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z APic joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z oxum joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z oldtopman joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z karstensrage joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z cg505 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z ChoHag joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z grobe0ba joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z shrysr joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z seisatsu joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z bacterio joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z thijso joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z vert2 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z selwyn joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z rme joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:29:28Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:30:51Z joels: looks cool
2020-07-01T17:31:27Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:32:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T17:32:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:32:49Z phoe: and annoying
2020-07-01T17:32:55Z phoe: I am not used to this coordinate system
2020-07-01T17:33:25Z joels: Yeah. But I guess that is part of the challenge
2020-07-01T17:33:34Z igemnace quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2020-07-01T17:33:49Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T17:34:01Z joels: Is that the basis of some graphical top down view strategy of some sort?
2020-07-01T17:34:30Z phoe: yes
2020-07-01T17:34:44Z gareppa joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:36:04Z joels: Sounds like fun. good luck
2020-07-01T17:36:04Z gareppa quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T17:39:32Z ym joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:42:31Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-01T17:43:36Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:47:01Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:48:53Z phoe: <3
2020-07-01T17:48:54Z phoe: thankee
2020-07-01T17:49:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T17:49:27Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T17:53:47Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-01T18:00:21Z tumdum_ is now known as tumdum
2020-07-01T18:00:46Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-01T18:01:30Z tumdum quit (Changing host)
2020-07-01T18:01:30Z tumdum joined #lisp
2020-07-01T18:04:00Z zooey_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T18:04:43Z zooey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T18:08:19Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-01T18:08:54Z simendsjo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T18:12:25Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T18:13:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T18:16:23Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-01T18:20:38Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T18:22:48Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T18:25:21Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T18:25:26Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-01T18:36:51Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-01T18:38:08Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T18:39:56Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T18:47:50Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-01T18:56:54Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:03:21Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-01T19:06:19Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:09:05Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-01T19:12:19Z ursuta joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:15:00Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:17:58Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:18:49Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T19:20:36Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:22:55Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:24:56Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-01T19:25:09Z ursuta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-01T19:29:49Z ursuta joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:32:11Z papachan quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T19:32:51Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:33:19Z gargaml joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:33:48Z jbayardo joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:34:32Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:34:50Z jbayardo quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T19:36:32Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T19:39:00Z mgr- joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:40:22Z cybercaf1 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:40:23Z flip214_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:43:52Z flocks quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T19:44:42Z ikki joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:45:12Z drot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T19:45:12Z cybercafe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T19:45:12Z rotty quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T19:45:12Z mgr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T19:45:12Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-01T19:45:59Z drot_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:46:21Z rotty joined #lisp
2020-07-01T19:50:02Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-01T19:51:30Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:03:18Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-01T20:04:46Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:12:07Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:13:52Z ikki quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T20:19:12Z MightyJoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-01T20:19:25Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T20:21:52Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T20:22:35Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:26:54Z chasecrum joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:27:15Z ikki joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:27:31Z chasecrum left #lisp
2020-07-01T20:28:04Z ursuta quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T20:29:56Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:30:42Z chasecrum joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:31:12Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T20:31:38Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T20:32:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:35:17Z nikkal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T20:36:35Z chasecrum left #lisp
2020-07-01T20:40:42Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-01T20:42:03Z gekkou joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:46:15Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-01T20:46:36Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:47:59Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T20:48:49Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:49:36Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-01T20:52:37Z gekkou quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9-dev)
2020-07-01T20:54:49Z ikki quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T20:56:09Z gargaml quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-01T20:59:37Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T21:04:56Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T21:05:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:07:38Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T21:09:25Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-01T21:11:17Z efm quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-01T21:11:57Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:17:40Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T21:30:05Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-01T21:30:09Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:40:30Z grewal quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-01T21:40:39Z Dzener joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:40:53Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:43:12Z fouric joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:44:04Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T21:44:49Z ikki joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:47:57Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T21:48:12Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-01T21:48:20Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:50:45Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:50:50Z xlei quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-07-01T21:51:09Z xlei joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:52:28Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T21:52:51Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T21:59:21Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-01T21:59:41Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-01T22:01:09Z dvdmuckle quit (Quit: Bouncer Surgery)
2020-07-01T22:02:36Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:02:36Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-01T22:02:36Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:03:15Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:03:20Z dvdmuckle joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:03:56Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-01T22:08:01Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-01T22:16:00Z madage quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-01T22:16:17Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:18:42Z dmiles joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:19:28Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-01T22:19:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:20:52Z ikki quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T22:22:36Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-01T22:24:39Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:25:07Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:25:58Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T22:27:41Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-01T22:27:48Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-01T22:28:28Z cyraxjoe quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T22:31:00Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:31:10Z cyraxjoe quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T22:35:33Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:41:54Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T22:48:30Z ikki joined #lisp
2020-07-01T22:49:46Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-01T23:03:26Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-01T23:04:19Z kinope quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T23:06:00Z ikki quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-01T23:09:18Z igemnace quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-01T23:12:51Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-01T23:21:11Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-01T23:22:54Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T23:22:54Z ChoHag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-01T23:23:16Z ChoHag joined #lisp
2020-07-01T23:32:59Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-01T23:33:34Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T23:36:03Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-01T23:37:28Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-01T23:37:54Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-01T23:43:26Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-01T23:50:52Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-01T23:53:57Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-01T23:56:34Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-01T23:58:28Z cyraxjoe quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-02T00:00:58Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:03:52Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:08:05Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:12:52Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-02T00:17:19Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:22:26Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-02T00:23:53Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:24:13Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T00:24:58Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:29:15Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:36:08Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:36:54Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T00:38:56Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:46:17Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-02T00:48:18Z julio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:49:55Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:52:52Z julio_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T00:56:54Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T00:57:36Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:58:11Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:58:58Z gekkou joined #lisp
2020-07-02T00:59:33Z gekkou quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-02T01:06:27Z gekkou joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:08:11Z gekkou quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-02T01:09:23Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-02T01:09:55Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:12:30Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T01:12:32Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:13:25Z isBEKaml quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T01:14:52Z pycapsule joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:17:03Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:27:20Z beach` joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:28:17Z dale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T01:28:35Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-02T01:28:56Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-02T01:29:03Z dale joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:29:05Z beach quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-02T01:31:12Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:36:34Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T01:42:16Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:45:49Z julio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:47:15Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:54:44Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-02T01:54:49Z Kaisyu7 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-02T01:57:25Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T01:59:26Z isBEKaml quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-02T02:03:25Z Kaisyu7 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T02:05:12Z thmprover joined #lisp
2020-07-02T02:05:15Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-02T02:08:39Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T02:12:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T02:12:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T02:13:26Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T02:13:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T02:15:46Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-02T02:19:25Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T02:23:02Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T02:35:52Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-02T02:40:58Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T02:41:13Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T02:41:14Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T02:41:44Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-02T02:42:07Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T02:42:46Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T02:47:11Z oxum_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T02:47:54Z oxum quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T02:57:27Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T02:58:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T03:02:26Z Krystof quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T03:02:38Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T03:04:43Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-02T03:04:54Z kinope quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-02T03:07:56Z beach` is now known as beach
2020-07-02T03:10:15Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-02T03:16:05Z MightyJoe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T03:16:25Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T03:17:52Z pycapsule quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9-dev)
2020-07-02T03:25:13Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-02T03:29:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T03:32:46Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-02T03:35:08Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-02T03:44:02Z JohnTalent quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-02T03:50:57Z Oladon: Morning, beach!
2020-07-02T03:57:01Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-02T04:00:53Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T04:03:21Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-02T04:10:05Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T04:10:41Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T04:11:53Z _paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T04:13:47Z julio_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T04:15:16Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-02T04:18:58Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T04:22:27Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-02T04:28:02Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-02T04:28:34Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T04:31:35Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-02T04:35:48Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T04:37:59Z KaiLikesLinux joined #lisp
2020-07-02T04:43:52Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T04:45:35Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-02T04:46:01Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T04:48:28Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-02T04:51:56Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-02T04:59:13Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-02T05:01:02Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T05:02:40Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-02T05:05:13Z OpenZen quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T05:05:21Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-02T05:11:55Z KaiLikesLinux: Lots of joins and leaves today
2020-07-02T05:16:38Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T05:17:04Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T05:18:12Z beach: KaiLikesLinux: I am guessing that is because there are a lot of participants.  Statistically, that would imply more joins and leaves.
2020-07-02T05:18:25Z beach: KaiLikesLinux: Are you new here?  I don't recognize your nick.
2020-07-02T05:18:31Z KaiLikesLinux: beach: It makes sense, but still, and yes I am brand new
2020-07-02T05:18:48Z beach: Great!  Welcome!  What brings you to #lisp?
2020-07-02T05:19:32Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T05:19:36Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T05:19:37Z KaiLikesLinux: I am a fan of lisp languages (Clojure and Common Lisp are my favorites), and am currently developing a Lisp inspired Markup language that translates into HTML
2020-07-02T05:19:50Z beach: I see.
2020-07-02T05:20:00Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T05:20:37Z KaiLikesLinux: Yeah, I need to learn Common again, lost that knowledge out of just not practicing, but I will get back on it
2020-07-02T05:21:29Z beach: Sounds good.  Do you develop this thing in order to practice, or is it meant to be useful?  I am asking because I believe there are already some markup systems based on Common Lisp out there.
2020-07-02T05:23:32Z KaiLikesLinux: It is meant to be useful. This one is directly for websites, because I got sick of HTML. It is also supposed to make sense, and maybe add things like variables on HTML. I also want to make a scripting language for it, plus a CSS framework for it. A lot of it is inspired by PugJS too
2020-07-02T05:23:39Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T05:24:28Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T05:25:10Z beach: The web is not one of my domains of expertise, but it does sound very fancy.
2020-07-02T05:26:24Z thmprover quit (Quit: For Here, I Hope, Begins Our Lasting Joy)
2020-07-02T05:26:31Z KaiLikesLinux: it isn't. It is so easy I made my MEML project (lisp markup for web) a transpiler, not even a compiler to HTML code
2020-07-02T05:27:18Z julio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T05:29:52Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T05:33:15Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T05:34:52Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-02T05:43:31Z dale is now known as dale_
2020-07-02T05:44:19Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-02T05:54:59Z marusich joined #lisp
2020-07-02T05:57:05Z dale_ quit (Quit: dale_)
2020-07-02T06:00:23Z dale joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:00:32Z julio_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T06:01:25Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:02:14Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-02T06:04:08Z julio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:08:29Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:08:57Z phoe: KaiLikesLinux: hey hi
2020-07-02T06:09:13Z phoe: AFAIK there already are such projects, CL-WHO and others - you can take a look at them for inspiration
2020-07-02T06:09:37Z julio_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T06:15:41Z KaiLikesLinux: phoe: Thank you, and will go
2020-07-02T06:15:45Z KaiLikesLinux: will do*
2020-07-02T06:24:12Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T06:27:02Z marusich joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:32:46Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:33:06Z stoneglass joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:34:16Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-02T06:35:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:41:41Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:41:48Z marusich quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T06:44:00Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:46:03Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T06:49:26Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-02T06:50:21Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T07:06:57Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:07:55Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:08:06Z KaiLikesLinux: Welcome Joels and PVE
2020-07-02T07:10:41Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:10:53Z KaiLikesLinux: hello zaquest
2020-07-02T07:11:12Z zaquest: hello
2020-07-02T07:11:35Z beach: KaiLikesLinux: It is not going to be useful to greet anyone that joins.  It will just create a lot of noise.
2020-07-02T07:11:47Z KaiLikesLinux: beach: ah, sorry
2020-07-02T07:12:07Z KaiLikesLinux: I am still too used to the flow of discord and telegram
2020-07-02T07:12:14Z beach: I usually greet people who announce their arrival.  That way, I know they are not just lurkers.
2020-07-02T07:12:25Z KaiLikesLinux: fair
2020-07-02T07:13:19Z slyrus joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:13:21Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:14:25Z contrapunctus: Does anyone know of an s-expression alternative to MusicXML?
2020-07-02T07:14:40Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T07:15:38Z joels: Good morning
2020-07-02T07:15:52Z KaiLikesLinux: Good mornin!
2020-07-02T07:18:02Z phoe: KaiLikesLinux: I personally mute joins and parts, since they're tons of noise
2020-07-02T07:18:16Z phoe: if someone is offline and I want to leave them a message, there's a bot over here that provides memo functionality
2020-07-02T07:18:24Z phoe: minion: memo for KaiLikesLinux: like that, for instance
2020-07-02T07:18:25Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell KaiLikesLinux when he/she/it next speaks.
2020-07-02T07:18:59Z phoe: otherwise, typing e.g. "Good morning everyone!" is a good way to let everyone know that you greet and would like to be greeted
2020-07-02T07:19:44Z DataLinkDroid joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:20:02Z phoe: at least around here, I think that greeting random people would most likely mean that you require something from them - at least that's how I'd feel if I got a random "hello" from a person I don't recognize
2020-07-02T07:20:24Z contrapunctus: minion: I find it so much more elegant to just write "they"
2020-07-02T07:20:25Z minion: I find it so much more elegant to just write "they": An error was encountered in lookup: Parse error:URI "https://www.cliki.net/I%20find%20it%20so%20much%20more%20elegant%20to%20just%20write%20\"they\"?source" contains illegal character #\" at position 87..
2020-07-02T07:20:27Z joels: I just ordered "practical common lisp" as per recommendation ;)
2020-07-02T07:20:50Z phoe: contrapunctus: minion is a bot
2020-07-02T07:21:06Z phoe: joels: also http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/
2020-07-02T07:21:34Z phoe: contrapunctus: https://github.com/stassats/lisp-bots/blob/09bfce724afd20c91a08acde8816be6faf5f54b2/minion/minion.lisp#L547
2020-07-02T07:21:58Z joels: oh cool. I do like having the physical copy though
2020-07-02T07:22:06Z phoe: I know the feeling
2020-07-02T07:22:39Z beach: contrapunctus: Are you working on music software?
2020-07-02T07:22:41Z joels: But a digital version is also cool to dip into while programming
2020-07-02T07:22:55Z Krystof joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:22:59Z adlai: minion: english
2020-07-02T07:23:01Z minion: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``english''.
2020-07-02T07:23:45Z adlai: minion: cliki
2020-07-02T07:23:46Z minion: cliki: index: https://www.cliki.net/index
2020-07-02T07:23:49Z contrapunctus: beach: thinking of it.
2020-07-02T07:24:10Z adlai: minion: minion
2020-07-02T07:24:10Z minion: minion: https://www.cliki.net/minion
2020-07-02T07:24:15Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-02T07:24:19Z contrapunctus: phoe: thanks, I sent that deliberately 😀
2020-07-02T07:24:38Z phoe: contrapunctus: might want to send a PR too
2020-07-02T07:24:39Z contrapunctus: (Although I didn't expect the error.)
2020-07-02T07:24:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:24:54Z gxt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T07:25:09Z contrapunctus: Ah, so that's what you meant. Thanks, I'll consider it 🙂
2020-07-02T07:25:23Z beach: contrapunctus: Great!  For your information, I am planning version 2 of Gsharp, called Clovetree.  It will use McCLIM for displaying the result and it will use essentially the same layout algorithm, but the presentation will use new font technology.
2020-07-02T07:25:23Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-02T07:25:39Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:26:11Z adlai: my guess, contrapunctus, is that the author of the fragment "when he/she/it next speaks" probably anticipated that IRC conversations might plausibly involve more than one bot.
2020-07-02T07:26:12Z beach: contrapunctus: jackdaniel has a task to work on the GUI, which is something I am not very good at.
2020-07-02T07:26:13Z srji quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T07:26:26Z srji joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:26:34Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T07:27:09Z contrapunctus: beach: Sounds fancy 🙂 I'm thinking of making a performance-oriented viewer for music, which will read MusicXML. I was also hoping for some s-exp format too, so I set about to look if one already exists.
2020-07-02T07:27:27Z beach: contrapunctus: That sounds quite useful.
2020-07-02T07:30:15Z phoe: XML in general can be expressed neatly using s-expressions
2020-07-02T07:30:30Z contrapunctus: beach: PDF/images irk me as a music format, so I'd like to make something reflowable, which adapts to the screen (no blank spaces), whose display is customizable (font, weight, color, etc), which never cuts off musical information midway (e.g. half a note displayed, or half a staff displayed, etc - as can happen with images), and can scroll in a music-aware manner (e.g. scrolling by musical units - bea
2020-07-02T07:30:30Z contrapunctus: ts, bars, displayed lines)
2020-07-02T07:30:37Z phoe: so perhaps a simple means of converting XML into sexprs would be a good starting point
2020-07-02T07:31:14Z phoe: you're going to do it anyway if you want to parse XML in Lisp (though most likely that'll get parsed into some sort of objects and not into literal list structure)
2020-07-02T07:31:22Z beach: contrapunctus: I see.  Like I said, sounds quite useful.
2020-07-02T07:31:33Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:32:22Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T07:32:23Z contrapunctus: Thanks 😁 I hope it also draws more attention to Lisp.
2020-07-02T07:32:30Z beach: Yeah.
2020-07-02T07:32:40Z adlai: contrapunctus: what do you do about legato markings that span measures?
2020-07-02T07:33:56Z momozor joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:34:37Z contrapunctus: adlai: thanks, I hadn't thought about that. I've seen typesetters break them, so that's an option. Or we could be smarter and try to fit them onto one line if we can, adjusting the display of the adjoining lines 🤔 Or something else?
2020-07-02T07:36:29Z adlai has invariably experienced rage when e.g. G.Henle arranges measures as though people are buying the scores for their value as fishwrap, rather than considering the phrases as poetry that should actually be arranged in a semantically-aware manner
2020-07-02T07:36:53Z contrapunctus: phoe: I was hoping to know of any such representations which are already implemented, which would help me handle the issues they've found...but if there aren't any, then I'll make my own, as you suggest. Say, why would I want them to be 'objects' rather than a list? 🤔
2020-07-02T07:37:09Z phoe: contrapunctus: check out plump
2020-07-02T07:37:19Z phoe: it's a XML parser that parses into a set of standard objects
2020-07-02T07:37:26Z adlai: you might find algorithms worth stealing in and around emacs's fill-paragraph code
2020-07-02T07:37:41Z phoe: you should be able to inspect the result of plump parsing and see how the parse result is structured internally
2020-07-02T07:38:01Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T07:38:58Z contrapunctus: .o(lmao, DDG results for 'lisp plump' after the GitHub result 😂)
2020-07-02T07:39:14Z momozor: Hi. How do I actually pass a `spliced values from a list` for (defun f (&rest spliced-values))? My attempt is something like this -
2020-07-02T07:39:29Z momozor: (f (values-list '(1 2 3))
2020-07-02T07:39:41Z phoe: you don't want that
2020-07-02T07:39:45Z phoe: (apply #'f '(1 2 3))
2020-07-02T07:39:57Z adlai: to answer my own question, since you pointed it back at me, contrapunctus, I think that a legato marking is not always there to denote phrasing; splitting a phrase should be avoided, when possible, although splitting a short non-phrasing legato that links a few notes between measures should be avoided much more thoroughly. that is as bad as this kind of hyp-henation.
2020-07-02T07:40:01Z phoe: VALUES-LIST doesn't do what you think it does
2020-07-02T07:40:01Z momozor: oh thanks
2020-07-02T07:40:26Z phoe: it is related to multiple values, which are a different concept than function application
2020-07-02T07:40:36Z phoe: (f (values-list '(1 2 3)) === (f 1)
2020-07-02T07:40:51Z phoe: since only the primary value is taken into account here.
2020-07-02T07:41:46Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T07:42:09Z momozor: ah I see
2020-07-02T07:42:48Z momozor: anyway, using apply works. Thanks!
2020-07-02T07:42:51Z phoe: multiple values are most useful at function boundaries, in order to avoid returning tuples
2020-07-02T07:42:51Z contrapunctus: adlai: I already see this veering into Lilypond/LaTeX levels of typesetting complexity 😁 Well, I'll certainly look into that (since it's primarily made for musicians to read) once I've got a MVP going. Thanks for sharing that concern.
2020-07-02T07:42:55Z phoe: momozor: <3
2020-07-02T07:44:22Z adlai: contrapunctus: regrettably, musicians often have opinions about two-dimensional arrangements, along with all the opinions about decibular timeseries.
2020-07-02T07:46:58Z contrapunctus: adlai: "decibular timeseries"? 🤔
2020-07-02T07:47:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T07:47:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T07:48:28Z adlai: signal, noise, and everything in between
2020-07-02T07:50:01Z hineios730393479 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T08:03:05Z epony quit (Quit: reconfigure)
2020-07-02T08:03:44Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T08:05:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T08:06:03Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-02T08:08:35Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-02T08:10:57Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-02T08:12:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T08:13:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T08:16:35Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-02T08:23:35Z momozor quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T08:24:02Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-02T08:29:34Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T08:33:34Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T08:44:45Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-02T08:48:17Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-02T08:51:06Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-02T08:56:56Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T08:57:29Z _roman_: Hi. Maybe someone can help me understand locked packages in sbcl. I'm trying to get GBBopen to compile but keep getting a package-locked-error
2020-07-02T08:57:48Z beach: What is the error message?
2020-07-02T08:58:19Z _roman_: i put it in a gist at https://gist.github.com/romanab/e6cd0646bc2900d6051455af1481d498
2020-07-02T08:58:35Z beach: Usually, when a package lock is tripped, that means you are trying to define something that uses a standard Common Lisp symbol.
2020-07-02T08:58:57Z phoe: _roman_: why are you redefining SBCL internal stuff?
2020-07-02T08:59:09Z _roman_: what i find confusing is that it is wrapped in a sb-ext::without-package-locks
2020-07-02T08:59:15Z phoe: oh, wait, you're not, one second...
2020-07-02T08:59:24Z phoe: lemme see what is gbbopen
2020-07-02T08:59:41Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-02T08:59:43Z phoe: what is the code inside "initiate.lisp"?
2020-07-02T09:00:14Z _roman_: just loads the system. ie a manual load file
2020-07-02T09:01:00Z phoe: https://github.com/lisp-mirror/GBBopen/blob/5518cb4de76714e4d5bc69f49cc5333d5a0249a7/source/tools/declared-numerics.lisp#L1113-L1121
2020-07-02T09:01:04Z phoe: this code is ugly and should be fixed
2020-07-02T09:01:34Z phoe: patching SBCL at runtime like that is a no-no I guess
2020-07-02T09:02:07Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-02T09:02:15Z phoe: I guess you should make an issue about that, gbbopen seems to have some recent commits.
2020-07-02T09:02:19Z _roman_: yet if I manually put a sb-ext::without-package-locks around the form starting the module loading & the compilation, it goes thru fine
2020-07-02T09:03:41Z _roman_: i'm just curious about why sb-ext::without-package-locks works sometimes and not others
2020-07-02T09:03:52Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T09:04:18Z phoe: because sb-impl::output-float-infinity doesn't seem to exist
2020-07-02T09:04:22Z phoe: and so the lock is violated at read-time
2020-07-02T09:04:35Z phoe: this is dead code
2020-07-02T09:05:37Z phoe: which shows the exact point why patching stuff like that is harmful
2020-07-02T09:05:53Z _roman_: but wouldn't that be also the case when I explicitly introduce the sb-ext::without-package-locks?
2020-07-02T09:05:55Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-02T09:06:11Z phoe: what is your sbcl version?
2020-07-02T09:06:28Z phoe: that's confusing to me, yes; it should also be like that in the repl
2020-07-02T09:07:40Z phoe: https://pastebin.com/vGSah1aG
2020-07-02T09:07:41Z _roman_: This is SBCL 2.0.4
2020-07-02T09:07:42Z phoe: also works in the REPL
2020-07-02T09:07:52Z phoe: uh, works - errors I mean
2020-07-02T09:09:34Z _roman_: yes
2020-07-02T09:09:50Z phoe: if you do (without-package-locks ...) in the repl though, then the package is already unlocked by the time the file is read
2020-07-02T09:09:56Z phoe: so no error happens
2020-07-02T09:10:07Z phoe: I suggest to file an issue to have that dead code removed.
2020-07-02T09:11:49Z _roman_: ok. seems to be quiet since 2016 though
2020-07-02T09:12:52Z phoe: https://github.com/lisp-mirror/GBBopen has a relatively fresh commit
2020-07-02T09:13:22Z phoe: but, yes, that code seems unmaintained
2020-07-02T09:17:46Z _roman_: Thanks. I'm still not clear in my own head about the locks given that the #+sbcl conditionalization ought to activate the no locking before the defun (no?)
2020-07-02T09:18:28Z phoe: not really
2020-07-02T09:18:42Z phoe: #+sbcl causes the form to appear there only for SBCL
2020-07-02T09:18:53Z phoe: but then it tries to read "sb-impl::something"
2020-07-02T09:19:02Z phoe: the symbol does not exist there, so it must be interned
2020-07-02T09:19:09Z phoe: the act of interning trips the package lock
2020-07-02T09:19:12Z phoe: an error is signaled
2020-07-02T09:19:28Z phoe: all of this before sb-ext:without-package-locks is even compiled in
2020-07-02T09:19:35Z phoe: and before it has a chance to execute
2020-07-02T09:20:18Z _roman_: I see
2020-07-02T09:21:33Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-02T09:21:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T09:22:50Z _roman_: a matter of timing so to speak
2020-07-02T09:22:56Z phoe: yesssss
2020-07-02T09:23:17Z phoe: does anyone have code for printing arbitrary hex grids as ASCII-art to console?
2020-07-02T09:23:18Z cg505 quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-02T09:25:10Z cg505 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T09:26:36Z _roman_: While looking at this, I came across "12.1.2 Implementation Packages" in the sbcl manual. Never heard of them nor could find any other documentation on them. Are they just a convention for code separation or something more? Any pointers where I might find more info?
2020-07-02T09:27:01Z beach: The former.
2020-07-02T09:27:07Z phoe: that's a SBCL thing
2020-07-02T09:27:16Z beach: It is just a way to divide the code into modules.
2020-07-02T09:27:29Z _roman_: ok
2020-07-02T09:27:37Z _roman_: thanks
2020-07-02T09:27:48Z beach: Sure.
2020-07-02T09:42:55Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T09:44:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T09:45:20Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T09:48:58Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-02T09:49:38Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T09:49:46Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-02T09:54:02Z freshpassport quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-07-02T09:54:31Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-02T09:54:44Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:04:04Z DataLinkDroid quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2020-07-02T10:05:01Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T10:06:51Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T10:07:21Z whiteline quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T10:07:30Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:09:07Z hhdave joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:13:00Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:13:14Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T10:13:31Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T10:13:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:17:48Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:18:17Z epony quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-02T10:22:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T10:22:36Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:25:25Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T10:25:58Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:26:06Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:26:29Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-02T10:27:26Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T10:27:27Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-02T10:28:03Z igemnace quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T10:33:44Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:45:12Z EvW2 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T10:45:22Z EvW quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T10:45:22Z EvW2 is now known as EvW
2020-07-02T10:53:54Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T10:55:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:00:54Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T11:01:32Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:04:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-02T11:04:13Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T11:04:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:09:54Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T11:12:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T11:13:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:20:27Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:24:20Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:27:21Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T11:27:23Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:28:27Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T11:30:44Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:30:58Z xrash quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-02T11:30:59Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T11:31:55Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T11:32:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:33:14Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:35:52Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:36:39Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-02T11:43:02Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T12:01:23Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:05:10Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T12:06:13Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T12:07:28Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:12:15Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T12:12:54Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T12:13:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:14:10Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:14:38Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:18:36Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:23:30Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T12:24:26Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:24:28Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T12:24:37Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:25:44Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:26:54Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T12:27:00Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:34:37Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T12:34:46Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:37:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T12:44:29Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T12:44:39Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:45:18Z stoneglass quit (Quit: stoneglass)
2020-07-02T12:49:52Z EvW1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T12:50:42Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:51:11Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T12:54:53Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-02T12:57:05Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T12:58:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:02:44Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-02T13:04:51Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T13:05:00Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:07:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T13:07:07Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:09:31Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:13:23Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:13:46Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T13:14:15Z adlai: lonjil: continuing from #lispcafe - you may find this project can save you some time, and perhaps also has ideas worth stealing, should you work on implementing a replacement: https://quickref.common-lisp.net/cl-collider.html
2020-07-02T13:14:26Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T13:14:49Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:15:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:16:24Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:23:57Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:24:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T13:29:23Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T13:32:23Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:32:28Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:33:36Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T13:34:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:36:11Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:38:12Z dlowe: CLX question - If I received a window ID from xlib:get-property, how can I convert that to a window so I can get its property?
2020-07-02T13:40:38Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T13:40:40Z dlowe: also wow, CLX is copyright 1987 by Texas Instruments
2020-07-02T13:41:01Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T13:42:34Z beach: dlowe: If I were you, I would ask the nice people in #clim.  They work a lot with CLX.
2020-07-02T13:43:20Z beach: dlowe: And, yes, I would very much like to see a new version of CLX, or perhaps something entirely different that uses the xrender extension exclusively.  Either way, something way more CLOS-y.
2020-07-02T13:45:05Z dlowe: yeah, I just think it's interesting that TI did it. I never would have guessed.
2020-07-02T13:45:17Z beach: Oh, I see.
2020-07-02T13:45:27Z dlowe: also that's it's old :)
2020-07-02T13:45:58Z beach: Yeah, and the reason it does not use generic functions and standard classes is that it predates the ANSI Common Lisp standard.
2020-07-02T13:46:28Z dlowe: ah, that makes sense.
2020-07-02T13:46:46Z dlowe: it would be quite the job to translate between models
2020-07-02T13:47:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T13:47:30Z tich joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:47:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:48:01Z beach: "models"?  xrender and X core?
2020-07-02T13:49:25Z dlowe: clx-classes and clos
2020-07-02T13:49:40Z beach: Ah, I see.  Yes, a bit.
2020-07-02T13:49:42Z dlowe: the clx model adheres pretty closely to its xlib roots
2020-07-02T13:49:50Z tich: I would like to loop through a list collecting say the first 3 elements how do i do that
2020-07-02T13:49:53Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:50:05Z phoe: tich: (subseq list 0 3)
2020-07-02T13:50:15Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:50:24Z dlowe: tich: you might be interested in #clschool
2020-07-02T13:50:30Z phoe: (subseq '(a b c d e f g h) 0 3) ;=> (A B C)
2020-07-02T13:52:05Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:54:31Z _death: the ANSI committee had graphics/windowing groups and there were discussions about CLOSifying CLX, and about CLUE as well
2020-07-02T13:54:57Z tich: My question was not clear enough I would like to go through a list in 3s (for-each-tripple (i j k) in '(a b c d e f g) collect (list i j k) ) => ((a b c) (d e f) g)
2020-07-02T13:55:14Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T13:55:35Z phoe: tich: collecting the G at the end will be tricky
2020-07-02T13:55:52Z jackdaniel: one thing to keep in mind is that xlib has the implementation which defines CLOS classes too
2020-07-02T13:56:06Z jackdaniel: define-clx-class defines either structures or standard classes depending on a build-time flag
2020-07-02T13:56:17Z beach: Oh, I had no idea.
2020-07-02T13:56:20Z beach: Interesting.
2020-07-02T13:56:34Z grewal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T13:56:41Z phoe: you can (loop for (x y z) on list by #'cdddr collect (list x y z))
2020-07-02T13:56:43Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-02T13:56:48Z phoe: but that will return ((A B C) (D E F) (G NIL NIL))
2020-07-02T13:57:07Z phoe: so there needs to be a little bit of conditionalization to avoid these last NILs
2020-07-02T14:00:26Z tich: phoe:thank you
2020-07-02T14:01:22Z tich: phoe:so the by clause has to be a function and not an integer?
2020-07-02T14:01:42Z phoe: tich: if you are performing list iteration, it must be a list function
2020-07-02T14:01:52Z phoe: a numeric BY is there if you do numeric iteration
2020-07-02T14:02:03Z phoe: e.g. (loop for x from 0 by 5 ...)
2020-07-02T14:02:26Z _death: you can use nthcdr
2020-07-02T14:03:07Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T14:07:52Z freshpassport quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-02T14:09:00Z _death: for example https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1937#1937
2020-07-02T14:11:10Z _death: though it would be prettier to (loop ... for sublist = list then (nthcdr n sublist) ...)
2020-07-02T14:16:24Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:16:28Z tich: _death:thank you for the code snippet
2020-07-02T14:19:06Z pve: Hi, are there any in-depth tutorials or other resources that cover designing an interface specifically with clos features in mind?
2020-07-02T14:19:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T14:19:25Z pve: uh, module interfaces that is, not user interfaces
2020-07-02T14:19:39Z phoe: http://metamodular.com/protocol.pdf
2020-07-02T14:19:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:19:53Z phoe: plus a shameless plug: https://github.com/phoe/protest/
2020-07-02T14:20:06Z _death: the AMOP book and the CLIM spec are good examples
2020-07-02T14:21:05Z pve: ok, lots of good stuff, thanks
2020-07-02T14:21:18Z grewal quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-02T14:22:49Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:26:34Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:26:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T14:27:38Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:27:46Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T14:28:23Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T14:28:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:30:04Z simendsjo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T14:30:10Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:37:10Z wsinatra quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T14:39:04Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:39:44Z pve: Do you guys start by carefully defining your interfaces, or do you just hack away and later flesh out the interfaces?
2020-07-02T14:39:59Z phoe: I do both at the same time
2020-07-02T14:40:19Z phoe: it's okay to have a rough sketch of the interface, but most of the time it changes anyway during the implementation
2020-07-02T14:40:31Z phoe: unless you already have an interface that you build against, at which point the question is moot
2020-07-02T14:40:35Z pve: sure
2020-07-02T14:41:47Z beach: Also, I often find myself wanting a completely new version of some library I wrote in the past.  And then I have a much better idea of the protocol I want to implement.
2020-07-02T14:41:55Z beach: But yeah, the first time around, it is incremental.
2020-07-02T14:42:06Z pve: ok, makes sense
2020-07-02T14:42:35Z beach: pve: Feel free to expose your ideas for protocols here.
2020-07-02T14:43:42Z pve: beach: thanks, will do.. don't really have anything concrete at this point though
2020-07-02T14:43:45Z beach: pve: As _death pointed out, the CLIM specification is an excellent example of how to design protocols.
2020-07-02T14:43:50Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:44:22Z beach: pve: I understand.  But I assume you are working with some project in mind?
2020-07-02T14:45:16Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:45:40Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T14:45:44Z pve: I'm working on my toy language, and while the compiler works (from the language to CL, right now), the internals are kind of hacky and probably wrong from a textbook perspective
2020-07-02T14:46:03Z beach: I see.
2020-07-02T14:46:30Z pve: I'd like to clean it up, but need to get a better idea of how I could go about it
2020-07-02T14:47:17Z beach: This is probably way too complex, but perhaps you want to have a quick glance at what we do in Cleavir.  We read CSTs using Eclector, then translate them to ASTs, then to HIR.
2020-07-02T14:47:44Z pve: and I feel better-defined interfaces would be a good start
2020-07-02T14:47:55Z pve: hmm can't hurt to have a look
2020-07-02T14:48:09Z beach: Check SICL/Code/Cleavir2/...
2020-07-02T14:48:15Z beach: There is even documentation. :)
2020-07-02T14:50:01Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T14:51:56Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:52:23Z pve: right now I piggy-back on the lisp reader to get a list of tokens which are then parsed into an AST, the AST is then used to emit CL code
2020-07-02T14:52:42Z beach: OK.
2020-07-02T14:52:49Z pve: I wanted to be able to mix CL with my language and that felt like the easiest way to get started
2020-07-02T14:53:17Z beach: I vividly recommend you use Eclector if you are reading something that looks a bit like Lisp.
2020-07-02T14:53:25Z beach: It is highly configurable.
2020-07-02T14:53:59Z pve: I've been eying it from a distance
2020-07-02T14:54:09Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:54:21Z pve: waiting to make the leap
2020-07-02T14:54:39Z beach: Eclector also comes with great documentation.
2020-07-02T14:54:52Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:55:01Z pve: it looks like lisp in the sense that almost everything is a lisp form, besides that, it looks like smalltalk
2020-07-02T14:55:27Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T14:55:51Z beach: So, Eclector will let you intercept things like symbol creation, so that you don't need to have the right packages already defined in your Common Lisp system.
2020-07-02T14:56:07Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T14:56:21Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:56:23Z pve: not sure if "form" is the right term, I mean symbols, numbers, strings etc just as they are written in lisp
2020-07-02T14:56:37Z beach: I see.
2020-07-02T14:57:47Z alfonsox joined #lisp
2020-07-02T14:57:50Z pve: I will definitely see if I could make use of Eclector
2020-07-02T14:58:15Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-02T14:59:31Z beach: In fact, it is high time we stamp out implementation-specific readers. :)
2020-07-02T15:00:55Z beach: pve: Speaking of which, Eclector is another excellent example of how to design CLOS protocols.
2020-07-02T15:01:26Z mankaev quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T15:01:32Z mankaev__ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:01:59Z pve: ok, that's good to know
2020-07-02T15:02:10Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:04:15Z splittist: I should look again, but what led me not to use Eclector in a particular case was the vast array of (quite illuminating, but not so helpful for that case) errors that could be signalled.
2020-07-02T15:04:46Z splittist: Of course, at the time I hadn't read the book on CL's condition system...
2020-07-02T15:07:14Z q-u-a-n2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T15:07:21Z q-u-a-n21 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:09:31Z tich quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T15:09:33Z spacebat2 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:09:43Z jesse1010 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T15:09:49Z user__ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:10:01Z aap_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:10:17Z q-u-a-n22 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:10:19Z q-u-a-n21 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T15:11:08Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:11:16Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T15:12:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:12:52Z rgherdt_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:12:55Z johnweldon joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:13:43Z adeht joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:13:50Z mgr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:14:00Z whiteline_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:14:15Z spacebat1 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:15Z aap quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T15:14:15Z pve: currently I'm only at about 5k lines of CL and maybe another 5k of the new language, so things are still quite manageable, but it would be good to get a little discipline into it sooner rather than later
2020-07-02T15:14:15Z pve: I imagine it will only become harder
2020-07-02T15:14:15Z aindilis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:23Z penguwin4 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:14:31Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z jw4 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z xlei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z OMGOMG quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z mgr- quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z shymega quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z _death quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z Ekho quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z penguwin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z cybercaf1 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z HDurer quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:32Z penguwin4 is now known as penguwin
2020-07-02T15:14:37Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:37Z grewal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:37Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:14:40Z cybercafe joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:15:02Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:15:02Z __shymega__ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:15:14Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:15:14Z holycow quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:15:14Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:15:14Z ult quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:15:17Z HDurer joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:15:22Z OMGOMG joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:15:22Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 254 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:15:26Z xlei joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:15:27Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:15:46Z aindilis` joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:15:46Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:15:49Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:15:50Z nydel quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:15:50Z holycow is now known as Guest86686
2020-07-02T15:16:38Z ult joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:16:59Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:17:26Z nydel joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:17:41Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:17:45Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:18:06Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:18:38Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:18:39Z adeht is now known as _death
2020-07-02T15:18:58Z Xach joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:19:22Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T15:21:20Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:22:11Z __shymega__ is now known as shymega
2020-07-02T15:22:18Z aindilis` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T15:24:08Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:26:18Z Ekho joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:26:29Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T15:26:32Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:27:54Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:28:16Z grewal quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-02T15:29:13Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:29:37Z _whitelogger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:31:21Z julio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:31:43Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T15:32:49Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:33:01Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:33:17Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:33:41Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:34:26Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:40:05Z Frobozz_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:46:11Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:54:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-02T15:54:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T15:55:21Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T16:01:58Z papachan joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:02:53Z spikemaster joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:04:00Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:04:45Z spikemaster left #lisp
2020-07-02T16:07:16Z julio_ left #lisp
2020-07-02T16:07:39Z julio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:10:01Z mankaev__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T16:10:07Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-02T16:10:20Z mankaev__ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:16:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T16:16:57Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:24:09Z johnweldon quit (Quit: tot siens)
2020-07-02T16:24:36Z alfonsox quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-07-02T16:24:54Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T16:25:59Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:30:20Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:34:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T16:36:34Z efm quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-02T16:44:53Z mankaev__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-02T16:45:56Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:46:17Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T16:48:39Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T16:49:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:56:04Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T16:57:17Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T16:58:17Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T17:00:49Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-02T17:01:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T17:01:45Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T17:13:30Z rumbler31_: this probably belongs on #ccl but I'm trying to use ccl to parse command line arguments.  Seems like when I dump from an image I've already dumped, the command line arguments globals are blank, or at least, frozen as of whenever the first image was made
2020-07-02T17:17:48Z sjl: rumbler31_: possibly relevant https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues/177
2020-07-02T17:18:01Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T17:19:46Z rumbler31_: not quite the same, in my case, unprocessed command line arguments variable is blank, but the full list is available
2020-07-02T17:21:53Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-02T17:27:35Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-02T17:29:11Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-02T17:29:46Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T17:33:49Z Kabriel_: Is there a reason that sb-posix:chdir and uiop:chdir do not modify *default-pathname-defaults*?
2020-07-02T17:39:29Z mason joined #lisp
2020-07-02T17:41:20Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-02T17:41:20Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-02T17:41:20Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-02T17:41:58Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T17:45:47Z _death: why would they? there is no expectation that *d-p-d* and posix working directory be kept in sync..
2020-07-02T17:49:37Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T17:50:01Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-02T17:50:14Z papachan: how i can rewrite this using composing ? http://sprunge.us/qDTt9z
2020-07-02T17:51:35Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-02T17:53:36Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-02T17:55:00Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T17:59:58Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T18:01:06Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 210 seconds.)
2020-07-02T18:01:55Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:02:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:06:22Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T18:08:34Z Dzener quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T18:15:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T18:15:07Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:15:32Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:15:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:17:27Z Frobozz_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:18:05Z Kabriel_: I assume that uiop:chdir is built on top of implementation specific methods like sb-posix:chdir.
2020-07-02T18:19:13Z Kabriel_: It seems odd to me that uiop:run-program uses the "directory" that uiop:chdir modifies too, but methods like load or (truename #P"./") use *d-p-d*.
2020-07-02T18:19:51Z Kabriel_: I would expect these to be linked, or at least an easy way to link them such that when you "changed" directories, it would be consistent in both cases.
2020-07-02T18:24:10Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:25:28Z liberliver quit (Quit: liberliver)
2020-07-02T18:26:09Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T18:27:43Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T18:28:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:30:14Z msk quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T18:30:37Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:37:58Z msk quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T18:38:22Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:40:07Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:42:17Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-02T18:42:47Z msk quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-02T18:43:06Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:46:13Z msk quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-02T18:46:33Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:47:56Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:49:06Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T18:50:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:52:03Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T18:55:20Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T18:55:24Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-02T18:56:04Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:57:02Z zooey_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T18:57:21Z zooey joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:59:37Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T18:59:52Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:01:14Z roze joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:01:40Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-02T19:02:12Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:03:30Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:05:20Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:07:06Z even4void quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-02T19:08:46Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:09:16Z stoneglass joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:09:57Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:11:30Z vaporatorius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T19:11:35Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:12:06Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T19:16:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:17:05Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:26:42Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:27:35Z roze quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T19:28:13Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:30:28Z julio_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:33:49Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:34:25Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:35:48Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:35:56Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:38:10Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:39:05Z gareppa joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:39:15Z whiteline_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T19:40:07Z whiteline_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:45:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:45:09Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:45:22Z gareppa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T19:45:45Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:49:49Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:50:27Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-02T19:56:44Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-02T19:59:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T20:00:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:00:58Z FennecCode joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:04:14Z enrio quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T20:06:18Z izh_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:08:07Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-02T20:08:18Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:10:38Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:11:22Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T20:16:11Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:20:54Z msk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T20:21:29Z julio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:22:27Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:23:07Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:25:01Z msk__ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:27:08Z msk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T20:29:51Z xrash_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:40:18Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:41:33Z cgay quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-02T20:42:55Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:43:13Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T20:44:15Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T20:45:51Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:48:00Z xrash_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T20:48:19Z xrash_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T20:50:45Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-02T20:53:08Z xrash quit (Disconnected by services)
2020-07-02T20:56:16Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-02T20:57:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:04:09Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:04:47Z whiteline_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T21:05:18Z whiteline_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:07:10Z leb joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:07:54Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:09:06Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T21:09:28Z hvxgr quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-02T21:09:51Z hvxgr joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:10:34Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T21:11:07Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T21:15:01Z _roman_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2020-07-02T21:21:34Z izh_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T21:22:35Z whiteline_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T21:23:22Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:28:20Z borodust quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-02T21:29:59Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:30:48Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:31:49Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T21:34:00Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T21:35:51Z leb quit
2020-07-02T21:38:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T21:38:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:38:50Z axion quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T21:42:28Z xrash_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T21:47:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T21:47:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:48:47Z FennecCode quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-02T21:49:09Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T21:53:50Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T21:54:30Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:54:43Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T21:54:46Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 210 seconds.)
2020-07-02T21:56:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T21:59:19Z emacsomancer quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T21:59:41Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:03:56Z Guest86686 is now known as holycow
2020-07-02T22:04:13Z holycow quit (Changing host)
2020-07-02T22:04:13Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:04:13Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:04:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T22:04:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:06:07Z papachan quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T22:06:45Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-02T22:11:28Z simendsj` joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:12:46Z simendsjo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T22:16:27Z rgherdt_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-02T22:17:54Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-02T22:24:19Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T22:24:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:26:47Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:28:42Z stoneglass quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T22:29:25Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-02T22:29:25Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-02T22:35:12Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T22:36:12Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:36:26Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:48:14Z axion joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:48:35Z axion quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-02T22:49:04Z axion joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:52:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T22:53:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T22:54:58Z simendsj` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T22:57:50Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-02T23:00:11Z clothespin_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:03:37Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:04:40Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-02T23:05:24Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-02T23:07:33Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-02T23:12:21Z ArthurStrong joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:20:48Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T23:22:04Z axion quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T23:29:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-02T23:29:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:39:16Z vidak` joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:39:48Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:39:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T23:39:56Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:42:11Z efm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-02T23:45:10Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:45:13Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T23:46:03Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:47:01Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-02T23:47:51Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:49:34Z efm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-02T23:49:43Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-02T23:58:16Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T00:10:44Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-03T00:17:37Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T00:17:57Z t58 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T00:39:18Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T00:39:52Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T00:40:09Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-03T00:42:20Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T00:49:12Z t58 quit (Quit: ah well it was good while it lasted)
2020-07-03T00:50:10Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-03T00:52:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T00:53:11Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T00:56:01Z KaiLikesLinux left #lisp
2020-07-03T00:56:14Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-03T00:56:53Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-03T00:58:01Z axion joined #lisp
2020-07-03T00:59:29Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T01:00:55Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:01:54Z ChoHag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T01:02:10Z KaiLikesLinux joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:06:44Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T01:06:57Z axion quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-03T01:07:14Z mfiano joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:07:56Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:09:20Z mfiano quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-03T01:09:41Z mfiano joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:10:28Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T01:11:47Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:12:40Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T01:12:57Z mfiano quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-03T01:13:16Z mfiano joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:13:51Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:14:01Z ChoHag joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:14:59Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T01:16:04Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:25:14Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T01:25:45Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:29:20Z DataLinkDroid joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:42:20Z DataLinkDroid quit (Quit: DataLinkDroid)
2020-07-03T01:43:07Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T01:44:13Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:54:44Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-03T01:59:27Z jason_m joined #lisp
2020-07-03T02:12:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T02:15:04Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T02:15:42Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T02:18:49Z _Ark_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T02:18:51Z ark joined #lisp
2020-07-03T02:21:13Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T02:21:47Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T02:28:46Z user__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T02:32:04Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T02:32:49Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T02:44:32Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T02:45:49Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T02:46:47Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-03T02:46:55Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2020-07-03T02:48:38Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T02:54:54Z efm_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-03T02:55:50Z _roman_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T02:56:41Z slyrus_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T02:57:37Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T03:06:43Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-03T03:11:30Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T03:15:19Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-03T03:29:15Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T03:33:27Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T03:46:16Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-03T03:46:26Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-03T03:55:22Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T03:57:52Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-03T03:59:16Z cosimone_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T04:01:24Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-03T04:03:07Z KaiLikesLinux: Morning, beach
2020-07-03T04:03:07Z minion: KaiLikesLinux, memo from phoe: like that, for instance
2020-07-03T04:03:46Z KaiLikesLinux: minion memo phoe what?
2020-07-03T04:04:43Z KaiLikesLinux: minion: memo for phoe: Like what???
2020-07-03T04:04:43Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell phoe when he/she/it next speaks.
2020-07-03T04:05:47Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T04:09:06Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-03T04:12:27Z cosimone_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T04:12:44Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T04:23:39Z beach: KaiLikesLinux: phoe was just teaching you how to make minion give you a memo.  You can look at the channel logs if you like.
2020-07-03T04:24:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T04:26:27Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T04:30:49Z KaiLikesLinux: beach: Ironic, as I figured it out without that xd
2020-07-03T04:31:26Z beach: Oh well.
2020-07-03T04:37:46Z mrcom quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-03T04:45:41Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-03T04:46:36Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T04:46:48Z cosimone_ is now known as cosimone
2020-07-03T04:47:04Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T04:51:12Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-03T04:57:23Z KaiLikesLinux left #lisp
2020-07-03T05:02:41Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-03T05:04:12Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T05:22:13Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T05:22:23Z gxt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T05:25:00Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-03T05:31:22Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T05:35:22Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-03T05:44:41Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T05:49:02Z slyrus__ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T05:51:16Z slyrus_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T05:51:46Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T05:52:01Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-03T05:52:08Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-03T05:53:28Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T05:56:20Z kopiyka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T05:56:46Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-03T05:58:23Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:02:13Z ak5 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:02:23Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-03T06:02:43Z ak5 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-03T06:02:44Z roze joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:03:02Z ak5 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:03:03Z roze quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-03T06:03:36Z roze joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:03:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:04:30Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T06:06:49Z mankaev__ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:07:17Z freshpassport quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-03T06:10:18Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:11:56Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T06:11:58Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:12:13Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T06:14:56Z slyrus joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:16:49Z slyrus__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T06:18:49Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T06:23:19Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:30:02Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:32:15Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T06:33:35Z vegai joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:34:46Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T06:36:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:38:36Z phoe: oh well
2020-07-03T06:38:37Z minion: phoe, memo from KaiLikesLinux: Like what???
2020-07-03T06:38:42Z phoe: that's good, I suppose!
2020-07-03T06:38:52Z beach: Hey phoe.
2020-07-03T06:39:57Z phoe: hey hi
2020-07-03T06:41:08Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:42:12Z Codaraxis_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:42:33Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T06:45:26Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:46:14Z Codaraxis quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T06:49:49Z insomnyuk joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:50:00Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:50:26Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:53:39Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:54:07Z Cymew joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:55:13Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:55:13Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-03T06:55:13Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-03T06:58:53Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-03T07:01:26Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-03T07:03:40Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T07:04:09Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-03T07:04:15Z julio_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T07:09:10Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T07:09:47Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T07:18:19Z tich joined #lisp
2020-07-03T07:18:56Z roze quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T07:32:32Z KaiLikesLinux joined #lisp
2020-07-03T07:35:56Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T07:52:25Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-03T07:58:32Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-03T08:02:26Z msk__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T08:02:56Z pve: Morning, in the SICL repository, is the "Cleavir2" directory a rewrite of "Cleavir"? So the "Cleavir" dir can be more or less ignored?
2020-07-03T08:05:31Z KaiLikesLinux: mornin
2020-07-03T08:08:01Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T08:13:38Z beach: pve: Let's hope so.  Let me explain a bit...
2020-07-03T08:14:14Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T08:14:17Z beach: Clasp needed a better compiler, so drmeister wanted to use Cleavir for that, but Cleavir wasn't really ready at the time.  Still isn't quite ready.
2020-07-03T08:15:01Z beach: So for SICL, I needed to be able to modify Cleavir to adapt it to what SICL needs, and to correct some mistakes I made in Cleavir (v1).
2020-07-03T08:15:12Z beach: But I couldn't really do that without breaking Clasp.
2020-07-03T08:15:23Z beach: So I made Cleavir version 2.
2020-07-03T08:15:37Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-03T08:15:42Z pve: ok, thanks, I understand now
2020-07-03T08:15:56Z beach: But now, Clasp needs better performance, so Bike and karlosz are working on Cleavir 1 to incorporate some optimizations that are not yet in Cleavir 2.
2020-07-03T08:16:17Z pve: just looking at the AST for now
2020-07-03T08:16:27Z beach: I don't want them yet in Cleavir 2 because I want to debug as little code as possible while I am working on SICL bootstrapping.
2020-07-03T08:16:41Z beach: Cleavir2 is probably better for you then.
2020-07-03T08:17:29Z pve: ok, great!
2020-07-03T08:26:32Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-03T08:27:51Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-03T08:30:01Z simendsjo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T08:30:08Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-03T08:32:48Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T08:33:19Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T08:33:20Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-03T08:42:35Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-03T08:45:31Z pve: beach: (silly question) when you want to transform your AST into the next representation, do you walk the tree using the "children" function, or by directly recursing down each node's reader functions?
2020-07-03T08:45:44Z pve: or is "children" used only for visualization etc
2020-07-03T08:46:20Z pve: I ask because I don't have a children function, and now I'm wondering if I'm doing something the hard way
2020-07-03T08:47:19Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T08:47:44Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-03T08:47:46Z beach: Usually, the transformation uses the specific accessors.
2020-07-03T08:47:58Z pve: alright
2020-07-03T08:48:05Z beach: CHILDREN is for when you don't really care what the AST is doing.
2020-07-03T08:48:12Z beach: Visualization is one such situation, yes.
2020-07-03T08:50:18Z KaiLikesLinux quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-03T08:56:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T08:57:28Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T08:57:45Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-03T08:58:19Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:05:40Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T09:05:45Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T09:06:49Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:07:51Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:11:14Z _roman_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2020-07-03T09:18:01Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:20:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T09:22:12Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T09:22:43Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:26:50Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T09:28:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:28:46Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:32:42Z aap_ is now known as aap
2020-07-03T09:36:09Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T09:36:11Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:36:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:41:31Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T09:42:11Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:47:16Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T09:49:22Z oxum_ quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-03T09:51:28Z funnel quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T09:54:01Z funnel joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:54:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-03T09:55:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:58:23Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-03T09:59:46Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:03:49Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:06:39Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:09:17Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:14:42Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:16:33Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:18:39Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:21:59Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:22:11Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:24:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:24:12Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:25:03Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:25:42Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:25:55Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-03T10:26:43Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:27:03Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:27:30Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:29:52Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:30:01Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-03T10:30:25Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:32:19Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:32:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:33:02Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:33:13Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:33:44Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-03T10:40:01Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:40:55Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:42:08Z KaiLikesLinux joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:43:21Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:48:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T10:48:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:49:24Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:50:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:50:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:51:49Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:54:58Z jmercouris: I'm trying to do the following: http://dpaste.com/00C4P0G
2020-07-03T10:55:05Z jmercouris: the linke that doesn't work is:           do (setf index (term-count sentence word)))
2020-07-03T10:55:15Z jmercouris: is the only way to set the value of an array with the index?
2020-07-03T10:55:42Z jmercouris: I guess arrays are arrays regardless of the language huh :-D
2020-07-03T10:57:16Z jackdaniel: "index" is not a pointer to the array cell
2020-07-03T10:57:20Z mfiano: index is a variable binding of the value. It is not a place to be set in this context
2020-07-03T10:57:36Z jmercouris: that's too bad, I assume it just grabs the value
2020-07-03T10:57:37Z jmercouris: OK
2020-07-03T10:57:42Z jackdaniel: even original locatives as defined on symbolics lisp machines didn't work with arrays that way
2020-07-03T10:58:00Z jmercouris: so I'll have to use AREF then, correct?
2020-07-03T10:58:09Z beach: jmercouris: Places are not first-class objects in Common Lisp.
2020-07-03T10:58:09Z jmercouris: and I'll have to have another clause to keep a track of the index
2020-07-03T10:58:14Z jackdaniel: you may do (make-array (length-dictionary) :initial-contents dictionary)
2020-07-03T10:58:29Z jackdaniel: s/length-dictionary/length dictionary/
2020-07-03T10:58:58Z jackdaniel: or, if you need to call a function, you may call map-into
2020-07-03T10:59:11Z jmercouris: I thought about that
2020-07-03T10:59:17Z jmercouris: I was just thinking about map, but I prefer loop
2020-07-03T10:59:20Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T10:59:24Z jmercouris: at least in this case
2020-07-03T10:59:51Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-03T10:59:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:00:05Z jackdaniel: then use aref (or svref, or row-major-aref)
2020-07-03T11:00:51Z jmercouris: yeah, I've replaced it with: do (setf (aref vector-form index) (term-count sentence word)))
2020-07-03T11:01:01Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:01:08Z jmercouris: and then added the clause for index from 0 to (length vector-form)
2020-07-03T11:02:03Z mfiano: That's not correct
2020-07-03T11:02:18Z jmercouris: how come?
2020-07-03T11:02:19Z mfiano: Use "for index below (length vector form)"
2020-07-03T11:02:22Z jmercouris: http://dpaste.com/30MTJAW
2020-07-03T11:02:41Z jmercouris: what is "below"?
2020-07-03T11:02:54Z jackdaniel: http://l1sp.org/search?q=below
2020-07-03T11:03:10Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:03:29Z jmercouris: hm, i think it is correct
2020-07-03T11:03:32Z jmercouris: because I am using length
2020-07-03T11:04:04Z mfiano: (loop :for i :to (length (vector 1 2 3)) :collect i) ; =>  (0 1 2 3)
2020-07-03T11:04:07Z mfiano: (loop :for i :below (length (vector 1 2 3)) :collect i) ;=> (0 1 2)
2020-07-03T11:04:52Z jackdaniel: (aref #(1 2 3) 3) ; => 4
2020-07-03T11:05:01Z jmercouris: ah, I see
2020-07-03T11:05:12Z jmercouris: off by 1 joy
2020-07-03T11:05:19Z jackdaniel: (on VICL,  that is "value inferring common lisp")
2020-07-03T11:05:42Z ebrasca: jmercouris: ":to n" is equal to ":below (1- n)"
2020-07-03T11:05:58Z jackdaniel: hm, better would be (aref #(0 1 2) 3) ;4 :)
2020-07-03T11:06:14Z ebrasca: sory ":to (1- n)" is equal to ":below n"
2020-07-03T11:06:27Z jmercouris: 1
2020-07-03T11:06:46Z mfiano: and "from 0" is implied in this context, un-needed if you want to condense it a bit
2020-07-03T11:07:23Z jmercouris: final clause form:           for index from 0 upto (length vector-form)
2020-07-03T11:07:30Z jmercouris: I'll leave the "from 0" for explicitness sake
2020-07-03T11:07:52Z jackdaniel: I don't know where did you take this final clause form
2020-07-03T11:08:04Z jackdaniel: where you explicitly repeat your error from before :)
2020-07-03T11:08:14Z jmercouris: I use upto, it says it is analogous to below
2020-07-03T11:08:20Z mfiano: analogous
2020-07-03T11:08:33Z jmercouris: son of a
2020-07-03T11:08:46Z jmercouris: yes
2020-07-03T11:09:41Z ebrasca: jmercouris: I see you are having fun!
2020-07-03T11:10:59Z jmercouris: lol, good times today indeed
2020-07-03T11:11:28Z jmercouris: I'm doing some eigenvector centrality calculations, and so I decided to use arrays instead of lists for performance
2020-07-03T11:11:30Z jmercouris: my first time using arrays in lisp
2020-07-03T11:11:56Z jackdaniel: (and loop maybe?)
2020-07-03T11:12:41Z jmercouris: no
2020-07-03T11:12:54Z jackdaniel: n.b you may create an anaphoric macro
2020-07-03T11:13:02Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:13:12Z jackdaniel: s/anaphoric/symbol/, which captures the loop iterating variable
2020-07-03T11:13:28Z jackdaniel: then (setf index foo) will expand to (setf (aref foobar index) foo)
2020-07-03T11:13:42Z ebrasca: jmercouris: Try this (loop :for item-n :across (vector 0 1 2 3 4) :do (print item-n))
2020-07-03T11:14:09Z jackdaniel: (symbol-macrolet ((index `(aref array i))) (loop for i below (length vector) do (setf index (bla))))
2020-07-03T11:16:10Z jmercouris: hm, an interesting idea
2020-07-03T11:16:13Z jackdaniel: that way you have a third-class place
2020-07-03T11:16:16Z mfiano: Well you don't want the quote there but yeah
2020-07-03T11:17:08Z jackdaniel: right, thanks for the correction mfiano
2020-07-03T11:17:37Z jackdaniel: that said it is only a fun way to play with things, don't do that
2020-07-03T11:17:58Z phoe: jackdaniel: I was about to mention that your irony levels are high today
2020-07-03T11:18:05Z jackdaniel: code will be harder to read and benefits are literally 0 from using that
2020-07-03T11:18:23Z jmercouris: yeah, I didn't say I would do it
2020-07-03T11:18:30Z jmercouris: I just said it was an interesting idea
2020-07-03T11:18:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T11:19:03Z jmercouris: I could also embed an emulator within an flet and make it perform the operations :-D
2020-07-03T11:19:03Z jmercouris: an interesting idea, but I don't think I'm going to do it
2020-07-03T11:19:04Z jackdaniel: phoe: I like to think about myself as a person who is not ironic at all
2020-07-03T11:19:06Z phoe: I'd go (loop for word in dictionary for i from 0 do (setf (aref vector-form i) ...))
2020-07-03T11:19:07Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:19:58Z phoe: or just (coerce 'dictionary 'vector) since it seems equivalent?
2020-07-03T11:20:27Z phoe: this code seems to turn (foo bar baz) info #(foo bar baz) and COERCE is good for that
2020-07-03T11:22:51Z mfiano: That would be good too, but I suspect he will be refactoring later to a specialized array since he is after performance
2020-07-03T11:23:06Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T11:23:14Z phoe: uh I mean (coerce dictionary 'vector)
2020-07-03T11:23:43Z phoe: or (coerce dictionary '(vector element-type)) for specialization
2020-07-03T11:24:01Z phoe: where ELEMENT-TYPE is your element type
2020-07-03T11:24:39Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T11:24:54Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T11:25:36Z phoe: still, even a simple array will give a speed boost when compared to long lists
2020-07-03T11:26:31Z montxero joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:28:18Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:28:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T11:29:28Z jackdaniel: that depends on how you access them
2020-07-03T11:29:55Z jackdaniel: if you butcher arrays to append them and access them only sequentially, then array won't buy you a dim
2020-07-03T11:30:02Z phoe: yes, linear scanning over lists is going to be fast
2020-07-03T11:30:13Z phoe: but random access will be cheaper for arrays
2020-07-03T11:30:34Z jackdaniel: there are other things to consider, that's why I say that it all depends
2020-07-03T11:30:52Z jackdaniel: i.e list may hold any type of elements, while with specialized arrays you may inline some operations
2020-07-03T11:31:01Z jackdaniel: (that is, compiler may)
2020-07-03T11:31:16Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T11:31:32Z jackdaniel: also it is not given that sequential access to a list will be faster
2020-07-03T11:31:56Z jackdaniel: i.e for array you know its length, so you don't have to check whether the cdr is nil
2020-07-03T11:32:22Z ebrasca: Are there alternatives to multiple-value-bind ?
2020-07-03T11:32:23Z jackdaniel dives back to presentation type predicates in CLIM
2020-07-03T11:32:41Z jackdaniel: s/to/in/
2020-07-03T11:32:41Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T11:33:01Z Xach joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:33:09Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:33:35Z phoe: ebrasca: why do you ask?
2020-07-03T11:34:02Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T11:34:25Z White_Flame: ebrasca: there's multiple-value-list, to grab them all into 1 vallue
2020-07-03T11:34:29Z White_Flame: *value
2020-07-03T11:35:48Z ebrasca: I have someting like this http://ix.io/2qLI , I don't like nesting multiple-value-binds .
2020-07-03T11:35:53Z White_Flame: jackdaniel: arrays need to do a check against the length every iteration, though.  likely the same cost
2020-07-03T11:36:08Z White_Flame: plus an additional variable compared to the list
2020-07-03T11:36:09Z mfiano: There are times when linearly accessing an array can be faster than the same size list
2020-07-03T11:36:13Z jackdaniel: White_Flame: my point is that there are not guarantees what is faster
2020-07-03T11:36:18Z phoe: ebrasca: there's no standard way around that.
2020-07-03T11:36:47Z phoe: there are utilities like bind-star that offer different syntax for that, but they aren't standard
2020-07-03T11:36:51Z White_Flame: ebrasca: write your own multiple-multiple-value-bind ;)
2020-07-03T11:37:33Z ebrasca: White_Flame: What if I end neding multiple-multiple-multiple-value-bind ?
2020-07-03T11:37:39Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T11:38:01Z jackdaniel: I don't recommend it, but you may use uiop's nest, you won't reduce number of forms but you will reduce nesting
2020-07-03T11:39:31Z ebrasca: jackdaniel: Ok, I just focus making read-byte/sequence , write-byte/sequence for block based FSs.
2020-07-03T11:39:46Z mfiano: golden-utils and serapeum have MVLET and MVLET* for that, which allows you to use m-v-b with a LET-like syntax, which means it can be used to intersperse normal LET bindings in the mix
2020-07-03T11:40:57Z phoe: ebrasca: a hack is to do something like (destructuring-bind (a b c d e f) (multiple-value-call #'list (floor 1 2) (floor 3 4) (floor 5 6)) ...)
2020-07-03T11:41:00Z phoe: but that is a hack
2020-07-03T11:41:34Z ebrasca: This is my monster http://ix.io/2qLP
2020-07-03T11:41:55Z phoe: there's just two nested m-v-b there
2020-07-03T11:42:08Z montxero quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-03T11:42:20Z phoe: I was expecting 4+ if you say it's a monster
2020-07-03T11:42:44Z mfiano: (mvlet ((one two (values 1 2)) (three four (values 3 4)) (five 5)) (list one two three four five)) ; => (1 2 3 4 5)
2020-07-03T11:42:52Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:43:33Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:44:23Z jackdaniel: that was a monster: https://github.com/McCLIM/McCLIM/blob/master/Core/clim-core/presentations/translators.lisp#L373 :)
2020-07-03T11:44:44Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:44:50Z jackdaniel: well, only 5-level nest, but still it looked ugly
2020-07-03T11:45:33Z phoe: hah
2020-07-03T11:46:03Z mfiano: I should've probably done something similar here :) https://github.com/mfiano/algae/blob/master/src/noise/perlin-improved-4d.lisp#L48-L87
2020-07-03T11:46:21Z phoe: haha
2020-07-03T11:46:24Z jackdaniel: all I understand is "u lerp fs"
2020-07-03T11:46:39Z jackdaniel: and it is probably some kind of insult
2020-07-03T11:46:51Z mfiano: :)
2020-07-03T11:48:53Z mfiano: 27-30 is an example of MVLET saving 4 levels of nesting btw
2020-07-03T11:49:21Z mfiano: The rest are just normal let bindings shoved into that, because 1 return value is no different :)
2020-07-03T11:49:40Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T11:49:40Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T11:52:18Z Codaraxis_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T11:52:57Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-03T11:53:21Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:57:28Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-03T11:57:52Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:58:14Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T11:58:24Z gxt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T11:58:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T11:59:05Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:00:32Z ebrasca: mfiano: I can't find documentation for golden-utils.
2020-07-03T12:02:08Z mfiano: Most functions have docstrings
2020-07-03T12:02:10Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T12:02:17Z ebrasca: maybe better name is multiple-value-let
2020-07-03T12:02:35Z phoe: that's what mvlet stands for
2020-07-03T12:02:39Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:02:40Z mfiano: A few libraries use mvlet for concision, and so does golden-utils
2020-07-03T12:02:49Z phoe: except that I guess mfiano found the "multiple-value-" prefix too long
2020-07-03T12:03:41Z scymtym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T12:03:59Z mfiano: Not really. I prefer descriptive names when appropriate. This was more about convention, though I do use that a fair bit so concision helps.
2020-07-03T12:04:54Z ebrasca: Wha I don't like about lisp is its lack of consistency.
2020-07-03T12:05:09Z ebrasca: What I don't like about lisp is its lack of consistency.
2020-07-03T12:05:40Z gxt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T12:05:47Z shka_: yeah
2020-07-03T12:05:54Z phoe: that's the price we pay for having arbitrary syntax
2020-07-03T12:06:24Z mfiano: Well it is a language designed to bring multiple Lisps together, but fortunately, they gave us macros so it's a non-issue.
2020-07-03T12:06:25Z ebrasca: whey sometimes it is "place item" and others "item place"
2020-07-03T12:06:39Z phoe: this one is also a terrible thing
2020-07-03T12:06:54Z phoe: and I hope the Hypothetical Future Revision fixes it up in some way
2020-07-03T12:07:45Z shka_: HOPE
2020-07-03T12:07:46Z phoe: (hopefully via (place item) to make these consistent with their -F versions)
2020-07-03T12:07:48Z shka_: what a funny idea :D
2020-07-03T12:07:59Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-03T12:08:03Z phoe: shka_: okay, I'm going to write that revision myself and gain a whole of three users
2020-07-03T12:08:04Z ebrasca: I like "place item" like defvar .
2020-07-03T12:08:08Z simendsj` joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:08:12Z phoe: one of which is my CI environment
2020-07-03T12:08:25Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:08:31Z ebrasca: of like (setf place item)
2020-07-03T12:08:32Z phoe: and the others are me and some random Internet person
2020-07-03T12:09:49Z simendsjo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T12:10:31Z mfiano: Well Lisp is flexible. There will always be inconsistencies in the library space.
2020-07-03T12:11:11Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:11:20Z mfiano: I wouldn't consider that a bad thing. After all, code is a projection of ones' own thought processes. It doesn't make sense that a language that provides the power that Lisp does produce code that will be molded for everyone.
2020-07-03T12:11:29Z ebrasca: How hard can it be to make cl consistent?
2020-07-03T12:12:17Z jackdaniel: we should teach minion a catchphrase spoken when someone talks about reforming the common lisp standard :)
2020-07-03T12:12:27Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-03T12:12:53Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:13:09Z shka_: well, beach has this well specified common lisp project going on
2020-07-03T12:13:18Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T12:13:18Z jackdaniel: like: "it is easy, just take pen and sketch corrections"
2020-07-03T12:13:39Z ebrasca: I am going to talk about reforming cl againg.
2020-07-03T12:13:49Z phoe: ebrasca: it's easy
2020-07-03T12:13:52Z shka_: anything that goes further then this is just a pipe dream
2020-07-03T12:13:56Z phoe: the hard thing is to get everyone to use it
2020-07-03T12:14:03Z mfiano: I would rather have more choices for conforming implementations than to split the community even more.
2020-07-03T12:14:11Z phoe: and by "hard" I mean what shka_ and mfiano said
2020-07-03T12:14:13Z mankaev__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T12:14:13Z HighMemoryDaemon joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:14:19Z HighMemoryDaemon left #lisp
2020-07-03T12:14:25Z jackdaniel: phoe: you've ruined it. you should have make the second sentence: "just take the pen and sketch corrections" ;)
2020-07-03T12:14:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:14:49Z ym quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T12:14:50Z igemnace quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-03T12:15:17Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T12:15:17Z HighMemoryDaemon joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:16:29Z ebrasca is thinking about word conquest and forcing his cl vision on all other persons.
2020-07-03T12:16:32Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T12:16:46Z shka_: ONE VISION, ONE STANDARD
2020-07-03T12:17:14Z shka_: no, sorry guys, i just can't take this seriously ;-)
2020-07-03T12:17:25Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:19:11Z montxero joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:22:18Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:27:39Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-03T12:28:40Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:28:43Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:29:15Z beach: *sigh*
2020-07-03T12:32:04Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:33:13Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:34:14Z phoe: ebrasca: or else what
2020-07-03T12:35:28Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:37:37Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T12:37:48Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:39:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T12:41:28Z ebrasca: phoe: No more food for you.
2020-07-03T12:42:54Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T12:45:42Z ebrasca: phoe: Hoe are you going?
2020-07-03T12:46:02Z ebrasca can't write correctly today...
2020-07-03T12:46:25Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:46:34Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T12:48:22Z phoe: I am okay, doing dayjob things
2020-07-03T12:49:46Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:50:53Z pve: ebrasca: don't know if it was mentioned, but could you do something like this?
2020-07-03T12:50:54Z pve: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1938
2020-07-03T12:52:25Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T12:53:10Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:54:25Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T12:54:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T12:57:13Z ebrasca: pve: I think mvlet is nise but using some lybrary like golden-utils in Mezzano...
2020-07-03T12:59:24Z jmercouris: how to document a defclass form?
2020-07-03T12:59:45Z jmercouris: use :documentation at tail of form??
2020-07-03T13:01:28Z phoe: jmercouris: yes
2020-07-03T13:01:30Z mfiano: That's one way
2020-07-03T13:01:46Z phoe: setf documentation too
2020-07-03T13:01:50Z phoe: documentation-utils too
2020-07-03T13:02:18Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T13:03:20Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T13:03:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:04:51Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:08:04Z HighMemoryDaemon quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T13:08:13Z mason left #lisp
2020-07-03T13:08:40Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:08:56Z jason_m quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T13:11:00Z jmercouris: how does time know how many processor cycles were required?
2020-07-03T13:11:26Z jmercouris: how could any process possibly know that?
2020-07-03T13:12:14Z jmercouris: I thought that the binary was just a contract, how the underlying operations are performed, and the amount of cycles is not dependent
2020-07-03T13:12:33Z jmercouris: eg mv could take 1 or 1 million cycles, up to the discretion of the CPU
2020-07-03T13:12:36Z mfiano: They are estimated, depending on the interfaces the OS provides.
2020-07-03T13:13:25Z jmercouris: I see
2020-07-03T13:13:45Z mfiano: TIME doesn't require producing that information, though.
2020-07-03T13:15:58Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:20:44Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T13:20:52Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:24:41Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:26:15Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:28:22Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T13:29:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:30:03Z slyrus_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:31:40Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T13:32:16Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T13:32:32Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:36:15Z shangul quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T13:37:32Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T13:39:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:39:23Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:40:17Z enrioog joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:43:00Z enrio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T13:43:15Z grumble quit (Quit: Well, would you look at the time. I've almost missed my ambiguous, non-existent appointment that I have scheduled just when I start to lose interest in my current conversation.)
2020-07-03T13:43:49Z grumble joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:44:55Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:47:22Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:48:48Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T13:49:08Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T13:49:14Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-03T13:51:32Z Bike: jmercouris: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Stamp_Counter
2020-07-03T13:52:04Z jmercouris: ah, i did not know about that
2020-07-03T13:52:07Z jmercouris: very cool Bike
2020-07-03T13:52:11Z jmercouris: in any case, first sentence "The Time Stamp Counter was once an excellent high-resolution, low-overhead way for a program to get CPU timing information. With the advent of multi-core/hyper-threaded CPUs, systems with multiple CPUs, and hibernating operating systems, the TSC cannot be relied upon to provide accurate results"
2020-07-03T13:52:32Z Bike: sbcl does use it though, i think
2020-07-03T13:53:05Z Bike: https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/0fcebff494f89fe5fa0e5855fb36ed5d913783b7/src/compiler/x86-64/system.lisp#L351-L378 yeah. some deets
2020-07-03T13:53:10Z phoe: TIME is single-threaded single-CPU'd though
2020-07-03T13:53:31Z phoe: and I guess you cannot expect good results in case of hibernation anyway
2020-07-03T13:53:43Z Bike: sbcl also empties the instruction pipeline first to deal with out of order ness
2020-07-03T13:53:50Z jmercouris: very clever
2020-07-03T13:54:08Z Bike: and "the results are per-processor and not per-process, so are unreliable on multiprocessor machines where processes can migrate between processors."
2020-07-03T13:57:07Z Bike: also re "mv could take 1 or 1 million cycles", these things tend to be pretty well documented in architecture manuals or by agner fog
2020-07-03T13:57:22Z Bike: but, indeed, trying to estimate how many cycles a given stretch of instructions would take to execute wouldn't work very well
2020-07-03T13:58:10Z Bike: plus on a more basic level you'd have to know how many times a loop is going to execute and etc, which makes it outright impossible
2020-07-03T14:00:35Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T14:00:42Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T14:01:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:01:07Z phoe: you'd need to have a cycle-perfect CPU emulator
2020-07-03T14:01:11Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:01:18Z phoe: and that requires emulating caches and memory as well
2020-07-03T14:01:37Z phoe: and having it map 1-to-1 to the particular CPU model
2020-07-03T14:01:40Z mfiano: A cycle-perfect emulator of anything is not possible
2020-07-03T14:02:02Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:02:29Z phoe: I mean, not mapping 1-to-1 to machine cycles, but being able to count instruction cycles by either literally executing that code or doing some sort of examination on it
2020-07-03T14:02:38Z phoe: ugly stuff
2020-07-03T14:02:47Z mfiano: Take the case of DICE, the digital integrated circuit emulator. Here is an emulator that works at the transistor level for absolutely perfect recreation of the very first video games ever created. To run Pong at about 5-10fps, DICE requires a 3GHz processor, which wasn't a thing until relatively very recently ago.
2020-07-03T14:09:23Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:10:12Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:10:25Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:10:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:11:35Z lonjil: anyone here happen to have a pdf of Baker's paper Lively Linear Lisp? His website seems to be down.
2020-07-03T14:13:46Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:18:46Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:19:14Z jmercouris: anyone know of a implementation of pagerank within CL?
2020-07-03T14:20:55Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:22:01Z jmercouris: well, it seems allegro graph has this...
2020-07-03T14:23:01Z jmercouris: cl graph does not seem to have this
2020-07-03T14:24:35Z jmercouris: in fact grepping for "centrality" reveals no centrality measures whatsoever
2020-07-03T14:24:54Z jmercouris: Hm, I guess I am on my own
2020-07-03T14:25:53Z ebrasca: lonjil: Do you mean this http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/hunt/research/hash-cons/hash-cons-papers/BakerLinearLisp.pdf ?
2020-07-03T14:26:40Z lonjil: Yes
2020-07-03T14:26:58Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:27:19Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:27:23Z lonjil: Thanks
2020-07-03T14:28:26Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T14:28:33Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-03T14:30:34Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:31:14Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T14:33:11Z doublex quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T14:33:36Z doublex joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:35:04Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-03T14:36:32Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:38:00Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T14:38:38Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:38:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:40:07Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:41:13Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:41:16Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:41:42Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:43:09Z mfiano: http://eschulte.github.io/graph/#katz-centrality
2020-07-03T14:45:10Z enrioog quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:50:10Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:52:04Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:52:07Z julio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:52:07Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:56:25Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T14:56:37Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:56:43Z kopiyka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T14:57:06Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:57:37Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T14:58:07Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T14:58:55Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:01:58Z tich quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T15:02:00Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:02:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:03:06Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-03T15:04:15Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:05:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:06:35Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:06:56Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:08:33Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:08:43Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T15:09:27Z julio_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:12:13Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:12:42Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T15:13:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:14:41Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-03T15:23:26Z mpontillo_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:23:46Z grobe0ba_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:24:25Z rme_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:24:26Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:25:06Z selwyn_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:25:22Z lansiir joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:25:40Z mpontillo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:25:40Z grobe0ba quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:25:40Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:25:40Z loke` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:25:40Z grobe0ba_ is now known as grobe0ba
2020-07-03T15:25:40Z oldtopman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:25:40Z selwyn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:25:41Z Christ0p1er joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:25:41Z mpontillo_ is now known as mpontillo
2020-07-03T15:25:41Z rme_ is now known as rme
2020-07-03T15:25:41Z selwyn_ is now known as selwyn
2020-07-03T15:29:33Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:29:36Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:32:33Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:33:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:38:32Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:40:14Z Christ0p1er quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:40:50Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:41:53Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:41:53Z Christ0pher quit (Changing host)
2020-07-03T15:41:53Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:42:34Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T15:42:48Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:44:21Z knuckles quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-03T15:44:56Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:47:52Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:50:46Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T15:50:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T15:53:18Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T16:00:42Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T16:01:49Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T16:02:00Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:07:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T16:07:46Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:08:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:08:14Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T16:09:32Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:10:16Z mankaev quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-03T16:10:24Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:13:35Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:19:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T16:22:53Z ak5 quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-03T16:24:09Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:24:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:28:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T16:28:08Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:32:28Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T16:32:37Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:32:40Z nckx is now known as ProboskissesXOXO
2020-07-03T16:32:55Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:32:58Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:35:14Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T16:36:29Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:39:22Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:39:24Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:40:52Z ProboskissesXOXO is now known as nck
2020-07-03T16:40:53Z nck is now known as nckx
2020-07-03T16:42:12Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T16:44:10Z simendsj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T16:44:20Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T16:45:14Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T16:46:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:51:30Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-03T16:51:32Z gjulio_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T16:59:00Z msk__ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T16:59:59Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:00:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T17:01:09Z efm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T17:01:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:01:20Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T17:02:07Z Lycurgus quit (Quit: Exeunt)
2020-07-03T17:03:35Z msk__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T17:04:14Z Blukunfando quit
2020-07-03T17:06:04Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:12:21Z theseb left #lisp
2020-07-03T17:13:34Z terpri_ is now known as terpri
2020-07-03T17:14:00Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:14:10Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:17:16Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T17:18:09Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:27:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T17:27:51Z slyrus_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T17:28:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:29:35Z roze joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:33:00Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:37:10Z shymega quit (Quit: Adiós!)
2020-07-03T17:40:21Z roze quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T17:45:19Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:49:34Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T17:51:37Z shymega joined #lisp
2020-07-03T17:52:20Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-03T17:55:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T17:55:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:01:35Z pve: Can anyone recommend a tool for printing CL code, like on paper? So something to convert the source files into .ps or .pdf..
2020-07-03T18:01:43Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T18:02:02Z pve: I know emacs has some printing stuff, but I've never used it, so I don't know how viable it is
2020-07-03T18:04:38Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:06:44Z _death: I remember lukego had a blog post about it ( https://lukego.github.io/blog/2012/10/24/readable-programs/ ) but I don't print stuff
2020-07-03T18:08:00Z pve: aha, thanks!
2020-07-03T18:14:15Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:15:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T18:16:11Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:17:28Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T18:18:16Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:20:14Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T18:22:14Z aeth: heh, I was about to say, "That was 2012, but in 2020, we'd probably just use Markdown"... but the blog's already talking about Markdown. I guess everyone cool was already talking about Markdown even by 2010.
2020-07-03T18:24:49Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T18:25:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:26:37Z _death: recently I reverted (for no good reason) to the intricate comment convention style mentioned in the clhs.. for some years I only used ;;;; and ;; and stopped inserting Page characters .. still don't know if it's worth it
2020-07-03T18:26:51Z aeth: pve: You can just add "### filename.lisp~%```common-lisp~%" to the top of a file and "```~%~%" to the bottom and concatenate the files together and use an existing Markdown processor, assuming the comments and docstrings don't need to be handled in a fancy way.
2020-07-03T18:27:21Z aeth: (Even a shell script could do this, with \n as the newline marker.)
2020-07-03T18:28:26Z random-nick quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-03T18:30:52Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T18:31:32Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:32:25Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:33:34Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T18:35:31Z ebrasca: Why?
2020-07-03T18:36:54Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T18:38:19Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:38:50Z Blukunfando quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T18:39:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T18:39:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:47:00Z Volt_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:54:49Z catern quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-03T18:55:38Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-03T18:56:56Z Guest9274: o/ How can I declare function's output value as a composite type? I want to say that a function returns `(or null string)`. I see it's possible to do so for variables, but was wondering if it's possible for function parameters.
2020-07-03T18:59:21Z phoe: Guest9274: (declare (ftype (function () (or null string) ...))
2020-07-03T18:59:27Z phoe: s/declare/declaim/
2020-07-03T18:59:45Z _paul0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T19:00:07Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:00:44Z pve: aeth: thanks, can a markdown processor give me syntax highlighting?
2020-07-03T19:01:31Z leb joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:06:00Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T19:06:03Z Guest9274: phoe: thanks!
2020-07-03T19:06:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:07:12Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-03T19:07:27Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:10:52Z aeth: pve: if it recognizes the language name in the code block section
2020-07-03T19:11:07Z aeth: probably "common-lisp", but possibly just "lisp"
2020-07-03T19:18:24Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:18:48Z pve: all right
2020-07-03T19:19:44Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:20:06Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-03T19:23:46Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-03T19:25:52Z scymtym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T19:27:09Z phoe: What's the simplest way to get a inheritance graph drawn for me? Something McCLIMish?
2020-07-03T19:28:20Z aeth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T19:30:04Z aeth joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:33:29Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T19:33:53Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:35:26Z _death: https://gist.github.com/death/9f8cd25f4e946948a64a1f485e70f605 ?
2020-07-03T19:36:33Z phoe: oh! i meant something spatial
2020-07-03T19:36:39Z phoe: like https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/727649887549653212/728694783706529853/Zrzut_ekranu_z_2020-07-03_21-32-49.png that I did real quick in draw.io
2020-07-03T19:38:22Z _death: not sure what "spatial" means?
2020-07-03T19:38:55Z leb quit
2020-07-03T19:39:06Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T19:39:38Z leb joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:43:54Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:46:52Z phoe: 2D
2020-07-03T19:47:06Z phoe: write-digraph produces a list of arrows
2020-07-03T19:47:13Z _death: dot -Tpng foo.dot > foo.png
2020-07-03T19:47:14Z phoe: ...if I understand your code correctly that is
2020-07-03T19:47:18Z phoe: oh!
2020-07-03T19:47:25Z phoe: thanks ;D
2020-07-03T19:48:02Z _death: that snippet's from 2008 though :)
2020-07-03T19:48:35Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:48:44Z _death: for more recent dot stuff I use cl-dot
2020-07-03T19:49:48Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:51:33Z MichaelRaskin joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:51:49Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T19:53:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T19:53:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:53:41Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-03T19:54:01Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T19:54:04Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T19:54:58Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T19:56:44Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T19:59:04Z _death: for example https://i.imgur.com/piCKqJd.png from some months ago
2020-07-03T20:00:23Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:06:14Z jprajzne_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:07:16Z jprajzne quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-03T20:07:16Z jprajzne_ is now known as jprajzne
2020-07-03T20:07:28Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-03T20:07:54Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:09:42Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T20:10:24Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:12:42Z OpenZen quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-03T20:12:50Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:14:50Z rogersm quit
2020-07-03T20:16:25Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T20:18:13Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T20:19:34Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:26:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T20:27:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:34:46Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:36:22Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-03T20:36:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T20:37:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:43:55Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T20:44:02Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:44:53Z borodust joined #lisp
2020-07-03T20:44:59Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-03T20:48:31Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:03:45Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T21:07:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-03T21:08:26Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:08:28Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:10:25Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:10:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-03T21:11:58Z leb quit
2020-07-03T21:12:28Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-03T21:12:54Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:18:49Z papachan joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:22:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-03T21:24:16Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T21:24:31Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T21:24:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:27:53Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:28:42Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:30:44Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:32:45Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:33:02Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T21:34:31Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T21:36:32Z mbrumlow_ is now known as mbrumlow
2020-07-03T21:39:38Z catern quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-03T21:40:33Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:41:23Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:42:04Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T21:47:28Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T21:48:32Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:50:24Z terpri_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T21:50:48Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:51:22Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T21:51:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T21:53:34Z KaiLikesLinux left #lisp
2020-07-03T21:56:03Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-03T22:00:17Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:04:44Z nullheroes quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-03T22:06:37Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:15:14Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T22:16:26Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:17:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-03T22:18:32Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:22:28Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-03T22:24:34Z bsd4me quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T22:24:34Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-03T22:29:37Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:30:09Z mgsk_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.0 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-03T22:30:20Z mgsk_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:30:34Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T22:30:47Z samebchase quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T22:30:57Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-03T22:31:11Z samebchase joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:33:58Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:36:22Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:40:45Z efm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:41:20Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T22:45:38Z Guest21138 joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:47:50Z Guest21138 is now known as hh47
2020-07-03T22:48:03Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:51:06Z hh47 is now known as h47
2020-07-03T22:52:39Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:53:48Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T22:53:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T22:54:19Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T22:54:29Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-03T22:54:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T23:02:43Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T23:03:07Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-03T23:03:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T23:05:11Z Christ0pher quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-03T23:13:18Z hdasch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-03T23:13:25Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-03T23:17:34Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T23:18:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T23:22:53Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-03T23:25:56Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-03T23:27:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T23:32:07Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-03T23:34:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T23:35:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T23:44:29Z h47 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-03T23:46:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-03T23:47:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-03T23:57:54Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-03T23:58:19Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:01:28Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:02:05Z efm_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-04T00:02:35Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:06:57Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:07:46Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T00:07:46Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2020-07-04T00:12:28Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-04T00:12:53Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:14:01Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:16:25Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T00:17:05Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:17:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-04T00:18:07Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-07-04T00:18:32Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:19:19Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T00:19:35Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:21:38Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T00:21:59Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:22:17Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T00:22:19Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:22:54Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-04T00:23:17Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:25:36Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T00:25:51Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T00:25:56Z hhdave joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:27:56Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-04T00:29:31Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:33:02Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:37:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-04T00:38:28Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:38:37Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:38:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T00:42:27Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-04T00:42:54Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:52:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:52:39Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-04T00:52:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-04T00:54:47Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T01:03:34Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T01:03:37Z stepnem_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T01:07:32Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T01:08:20Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T01:12:56Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-04T01:17:53Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T01:24:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T01:24:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T01:29:18Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T01:31:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T01:32:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T01:36:38Z papachan quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T01:40:59Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-04T01:42:45Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-04T01:45:25Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T01:51:17Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-04T01:53:26Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T02:00:20Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-04T02:01:56Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T02:02:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T02:07:09Z gjulio: hey i'm new to the channel and new-ish to lisp. i'm getting stuck with the syntax on using remove with reduce. if i have a blacklist ofsymbols '(a b c) and a list '(a b a c a b b a). I want to use reduce to obtain '(a a b b a).
2020-07-04T02:07:16Z gjulio: i'm trying this
2020-07-04T02:07:29Z gjulio: (reduce (lambda (x y) (remove x y :count 1))
2020-07-04T02:07:29Z gjulio: 	  '(a b c)
2020-07-04T02:07:30Z gjulio: 	  :initial-value '(a b a c a b b a))
2020-07-04T02:08:34Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-04T02:09:12Z gjulio: ah sheeit, i should just sway x and y in my remove call...
2020-07-04T02:10:45Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T02:10:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T02:11:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T02:12:59Z KaiLikesLinux joined #lisp
2020-07-04T02:13:02Z KaiLikesLinux left #lisp
2020-07-04T02:15:37Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-04T02:17:11Z ArthurStrong quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-04T02:24:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T02:25:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T02:33:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T02:34:15Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-04T02:40:34Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T02:42:46Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T03:00:52Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T03:06:56Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-04T03:07:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-04T03:08:04Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T03:08:28Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-04T03:08:47Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-04T03:09:01Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T03:09:15Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-04T03:12:50Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T03:34:06Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-04T03:34:08Z asarch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T03:34:49Z beach: gjulio: Did you solve your problem?
2020-07-04T03:35:10Z gjulio: yeah, beach it all worked out. thanks
2020-07-04T03:35:17Z beach: Great!
2020-07-04T03:35:28Z beach: And welcome to #lisp.
2020-07-04T03:35:45Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-04T03:35:54Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T03:41:03Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-04T03:50:07Z Volt_ quit (Quit: exit();)
2020-07-04T03:51:36Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-04T03:53:46Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-04T03:54:06Z shukryzablah joined #lisp
2020-07-04T03:55:27Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-04T03:58:26Z shukryzablah: is it possible to make + add two vectors element-wise? (+ (vector 1 2) (vector 3 4)) -> #(4 6) . How can I do this?
2020-07-04T04:00:22Z White_Flame: (map 'vector #'+ #(1 2) #(3 4))
2020-07-04T04:00:49Z White_Flame: of course, that's not making + do anything new, but using + element-wise across two vectors
2020-07-04T04:02:47Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T04:05:01Z beach: shukryzablah: No, you can't alter the behavior of +, nor of many other basic Common Lisp functions.  But you can create your own package and your own + function that is able to add vectors.
2020-07-04T04:06:56Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T04:10:10Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-04T04:11:35Z OpenZen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T04:11:37Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-04T04:11:51Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-04T04:17:56Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T04:19:16Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-04T04:20:23Z madage quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T04:20:44Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-04T04:21:20Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-04T04:26:54Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T04:28:59Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-04T04:31:25Z fbmnds joined #lisp
2020-07-04T04:33:39Z shukryzablah left #lisp
2020-07-04T04:37:05Z aeth: If you want type-based generics (as opposed to class-based... normally classes are sufficient, but for numbers/arrays they often aren't), one library to do this is https://github.com/markcox80/specialization-store/
2020-07-04T04:37:15Z aeth: It's a slower generic dispatch unless it can be inlined.
2020-07-04T04:41:10Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T04:49:02Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-04T04:50:56Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-04T04:52:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-04T04:57:01Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T04:58:05Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T04:59:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-04T04:59:45Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-04T05:01:40Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-04T05:02:57Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-04T05:06:01Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T05:12:01Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-04T05:12:54Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T05:27:35Z montxero quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T05:29:01Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T05:31:03Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T05:32:37Z fbmnds: Hi, maybe first some context: I intend to use the Qt5 bindings for ECL (EQL5 https://gitlab.com/eql/EQL5) for my own project. EQL5 comes with a nice collection of examples which most of them I got running on my ARM64 developer platform. I expect to figure out how to use EQL5 for my project on my own.
2020-07-04T05:32:46Z fbmnds: I'd like to know whether there is interest in this community to dig into EQL5 in essence to be able to further maintain this project. From what I understood going through the code base, EQL5 is based on witty design ideas and allows for cross platform GUI development (the examples apps work nice on my Android mobile, too - iOS is also supported).
2020-07-04T05:33:28Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-04T05:39:37Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-04T05:41:45Z beach: fbmnds: Hello.  You may have better luck some other time.  This is early Saturday morning in Europe, and late Friday evening in north America.
2020-07-04T05:42:35Z beach: And many participants have families, so weekends are kind of slow here.
2020-07-04T05:48:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T05:50:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-04T05:51:49Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T05:54:14Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-04T06:00:59Z fbmnds: @beach ok - I'll post again on Monday morning :-)
2020-07-04T06:03:40Z beach: Good plan.  Oh, and this is IRC, and the @ convention is not used.  Just type the nickname followed by a `:'.  Your IRC client should complete for you.
2020-07-04T06:04:11Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T06:06:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T06:06:58Z beach: fbmnds: And, the channel is logged, so you might get some feedback over the weekend.
2020-07-04T06:10:05Z adlai occasionally sees a comma instead of colon, this seems like a less formal convention... most IRC clients will highlight the message in either case
2020-07-04T06:11:43Z adlai: fbmnds: there is also an #ecl channel that might be useful since you are asking about an ECL-specific project
2020-07-04T06:11:54Z fbmnds: beach: I alienate quite a bit with chat platforms in general
2020-07-04T06:12:26Z fbmnds: adlai: no traffic there in at least the last couple of days
2020-07-04T06:13:26Z adlai mumbles something about how maybe they'd get more excitement about ECL if it implemented the complete ANSI specification
2020-07-04T06:13:47Z beach: fbmnds: jackdaniel is the current maintainer of ECL, and he fulfills all the criteria.  He has a family (new baby too), and he is very busy.  But he is often around.
2020-07-04T06:14:24Z beach: adlai: Is ECL lacking a lot in this respect?
2020-07-04T06:14:26Z fbmnds: beach: thank you, I know
2020-07-04T06:14:32Z beach: Ah, OK.
2020-07-04T06:14:52Z adlai: beach: no, I am only aware of one painful incompliance - the lack of :arguments in the long form of define-method-combination
2020-07-04T06:15:01Z fbmnds: beach: I browsed the logs already when I was searching for another topic
2020-07-04T06:15:15Z beach: adlai: I see.
2020-07-04T06:15:26Z beach: fbmnds: OK.
2020-07-04T06:16:13Z adlai: I've considered taking this on as a project, since at least one other implementation (Clasp) has inherited that problem, by reusing ECL's code
2020-07-04T06:17:18Z beach: Indeed.  And I was planning to use ECL to bootstrap SICL, so I might be interested as well.  Plus, I have this long-term plan to try to create a Cleavir-based compiler for ECL.
2020-07-04T06:18:22Z adlai: are you already using the :arguments argument in SICL?
2020-07-04T06:18:39Z beach: I don't think so.
2020-07-04T06:18:57Z beach: But I might. :)
2020-07-04T06:19:49Z adlai: it seems understandable to me that an attempt to write an efficient method dispatch system would skip that one feature, although the result is a nuisance, because it is a very useful feature
2020-07-04T06:20:28Z beach: I understand.
2020-07-04T06:22:56Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-04T06:23:31Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T06:25:11Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T06:26:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T06:27:28Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-04T06:27:50Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T06:32:18Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-04T06:32:58Z fbmnds: phoe: ref. [2020-03-28, 13:46 <phoe> nope, it's non-portable and SBCL-only] osicat runs on ECL too (https://pastebin.com/VSQDwAKu) - just saying
2020-07-04T06:35:58Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-04T06:37:44Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-04T06:37:48Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T06:38:59Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T06:40:23Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-04T06:41:59Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-04T06:42:00Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-04T06:45:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T06:47:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-04T06:48:46Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2020-07-04T06:55:36Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-04T07:01:10Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T07:04:20Z simendsjo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T07:07:18Z RukiSama joined #lisp
2020-07-04T07:08:04Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-04T07:16:36Z phoe: fbmnds: my answer was to "do other distributions have a sb-posix compatibility layer? ccl?" not to osicat itself
2020-07-04T07:16:37Z fbmnds quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T07:16:59Z phoe: I don't think any other implementation emulates SB-POSIX
2020-07-04T07:17:50Z phoe: ECL follows some SBCL interfaces, but the last time I checked (and I might have failed) it doesn't have a layer that follows SB-POSIX
2020-07-04T07:24:30Z simendsjo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T07:25:37Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-04T07:26:38Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T07:27:12Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T07:31:44Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-04T07:32:31Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-04T07:34:32Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-04T07:35:57Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-04T07:52:29Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T07:54:23Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:01:02Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T08:06:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T08:08:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:10:10Z freshpassport quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-07-04T08:10:31Z montxero joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:12:43Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:13:20Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:22:44Z isBEKaml quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T08:23:19Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:23:38Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:25:34Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T08:26:56Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:29:27Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T08:33:22Z datajerk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-04T08:34:16Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T08:36:54Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T08:39:01Z jackdaniel: ah, he's gone
2020-07-04T08:40:37Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:40:46Z jackdaniel: adlai: lack of this argument is a bug, but saying that "ecl doesn't implement the complete ansi specification" based on one missing argument is quite a stretch
2020-07-04T08:40:55Z jackdaniel: please report an issue on the bugtracker
2020-07-04T08:41:32Z jackdaniel: even sbcl doesn't pass all tests from ansi-test suite (some of disrapencies were a deliberate choice at that!)
2020-07-04T08:45:02Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:46:41Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:56:48Z fbmnds joined #lisp
2020-07-04T08:57:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T09:01:07Z fbmnds: phoe: ah ok - I came across this when I looked into osicat as a dependency of cserial-port while porting from SBCL to ECL. I had problems with getting osicat to run until I realised that it runs well if ECL is compiled as default with gcc (had previously used g++)
2020-07-04T09:02:00Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T09:04:25Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-04T09:04:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T09:05:48Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-04T09:05:48Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-04T09:05:48Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-04T09:05:57Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-04T09:06:12Z jackdaniel: fbmnds: eql5 is actively developed and maintained by Paul Ruetz (the project author), I'm not sure what do you mean by "maintaining further" the project
2020-07-04T09:07:20Z fbmnds: btw, has anyone succeeded in building a reliable permanent connection to a microcontroller with cserial-port? I tend to believe that is practically not possible due to timing issues between send/response sequences. I am looking now to make my own FFI wrapper for a C library.
2020-07-04T09:10:16Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T09:13:11Z roze joined #lisp
2020-07-04T09:16:28Z fbmnds: jackdaniel: I refer to upcoming maintenace challenges in a foreseeable future, given that Paul Ruetz mentioned to me in a private email conversation that he regards EQL5 as a hobby project on which he does not want to spend too much of his private time.
2020-07-04T09:22:16Z jackdaniel: uhm, thanks for elaborating
2020-07-04T09:27:14Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T09:28:54Z besse joined #lisp
2020-07-04T09:30:14Z fbmnds: jackdaniel: I should add that I am also refering to the upcoming Qt6 release (https://www.qt.io/blog/2019/08/07/technical-vision-qt-6)
2020-07-04T09:32:46Z rgherdt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T09:34:22Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-04T09:43:18Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-04T09:52:16Z shangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T09:52:40Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-04T09:54:53Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-04T09:55:16Z shangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T10:07:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T10:10:17Z Lord_of_Life quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-04T10:10:49Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-04T10:11:19Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-04T10:13:03Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-04T10:15:22Z isBEKaml quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-04T10:17:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T10:20:29Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-04T10:31:24Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T10:32:37Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T10:32:44Z [X-Scale] joined #lisp
2020-07-04T10:32:45Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-04T10:33:13Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-04T10:33:22Z [X-Scale] is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-04T10:35:58Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-04T10:37:14Z besse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-04T10:46:07Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-04T11:06:38Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-04T11:12:01Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-04T11:13:39Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-04T11:20:52Z MrtnDk[m]: In Guile scheme, which command do you recommend for reading a line of text (from a file stored on a fixed disk, for instance)?
2020-07-04T11:21:46Z MrtnDk[m]: (as opposed to common lisp, I guess). 🥴
2020-07-04T11:25:08Z MrtnDk[m]: (Sorry, I guess I posted it in the wrong Lisp. I just reread the room discription of this one).
2020-07-04T11:25:40Z rgherdt: you can ask that on #guile or #scheme. But you probably want to take a look at read-line
2020-07-04T11:25:53Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-04T11:29:28Z bitmapper quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-04T11:31:43Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T11:34:28Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T11:36:40Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-04T11:49:39Z ITO joined #lisp
2020-07-04T11:50:04Z ITO is now known as Guest58665
2020-07-04T11:50:36Z MrtnDk[m]: <rgherdt "you can ask that on #guile or #s"> I tried readline, but it doesn't seem to work in newer guiles. (use-package (ice-9 readline)) or something.
2020-07-04T11:55:10Z rgherdt: MrtnDk[m]: don't confuse readline (GNU's tool) with scheme's read-line. The latter can be imported for instance from (scheme base) or rdelim
2020-07-04T11:56:42Z Guest58665 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T12:00:02Z bendersteed joined #lisp
2020-07-04T12:01:21Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-04T12:02:19Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T12:03:18Z iissaacc: yo, im working with common lisp and i have a directory of 74000 files i need to process. (directory) is running okay but I'm only getting 50 filenames, anyone know why this could be?
2020-07-04T12:05:05Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-04T12:06:13Z bendersteed quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T12:06:54Z roze quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T12:09:32Z phoe: iissaacc: how do you call #'directory?
2020-07-04T12:09:46Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T12:10:02Z iissaacc: phoe:  (setf *fnames* (directory "/Users/isaac/Dropbox/patterns/*"))
2020-07-04T12:11:42Z phoe: iissaacc: that won't include subdirs IIRC
2020-07-04T12:11:46Z pve: iissaacc: try *.* instead
2020-07-04T12:11:51Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-04T12:12:31Z _death: for subdirectories you can try */*.* or **/*.*
2020-07-04T12:12:40Z freshpassport quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-04T12:12:46Z iissaacc: aha
2020-07-04T12:13:13Z iissaacc: thanks for that my Gs got it
2020-07-04T12:14:16Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-04T12:14:45Z phoe: there is also uiop:collect-sub*directories
2020-07-04T12:16:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-04T12:19:02Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-04T12:19:36Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T12:22:04Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-04T12:39:26Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T12:44:54Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T12:47:26Z montxero quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T12:48:22Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T12:48:56Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-04T12:50:37Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T12:50:39Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-04T12:51:30Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:08:15Z MrtnDk[m]: rgherdt: Ahh! I thought "read-line" was a typo I made, since it generated an error and isn't mentioned in the texinfo documentation of the guile reference!
2020-07-04T13:12:44Z libertyprime quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-04T13:14:34Z roelj joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:14:56Z fbmnds quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T13:16:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:17:54Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T13:19:52Z nabataeus joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:20:01Z nabataeus: Hello :D
2020-07-04T13:20:20Z nabataeus: Has anyone here ever tried to emulate a Symbolics Lisp Machine?
2020-07-04T13:20:52Z nabataeus: I'm asking because I'm attempting to emulate one though I don't know where to look.
2020-07-04T13:23:39Z lucasb joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:23:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T13:24:04Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:24:05Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:24:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:24:42Z phoe: nabataeus: there is code for running Open Genera, called VLM
2020-07-04T13:24:51Z phoe: also some for MIT CADR
2020-07-04T13:26:41Z nabataeus: phoe: Is open Genera an OSS version of the original Genera? Does it differ, or is just relicensed.
2020-07-04T13:27:43Z phoe: it isn't OSS
2020-07-04T13:28:16Z nabataeus: Oh alright
2020-07-04T13:28:17Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:28:24Z p_l: nabataeus: OpenGenera was "Open" in the sense of not requiring custom CPU platform
2020-07-04T13:28:50Z nabataeus: And what does that mean?
2020-07-04T13:29:20Z p_l: nabataeus: it's an unfinished (but usable in production) system that runs Genera 8.5 on top of Alpha CPU running Digital Unix (POSIX = "Open Systems" at the time)
2020-07-04T13:30:25Z nabataeus: That's neat.
2020-07-04T13:30:41Z nabataeus: p_l: Have you gotten any luck trying to run one?
2020-07-04T13:34:42Z p_l: nabataeus: yes, it's been pretty popular for a time to use hacked-up versions that run on amd64, the range of bugs can be subtle though
2020-07-04T13:35:34Z p_l: and not all software will work, as OpenGenera never actually hit planned 1.0, despite 1.0 and 2.0 being sold, and some software expects presence of old console interface (whereas OpenGenera only exposes a newer API that not all applications migrated to)
2020-07-04T13:36:40Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-04T13:37:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:37:54Z nabataeus: Hm
2020-07-04T13:38:04Z bitmapper: also a bit buggy
2020-07-04T13:38:14Z bitmapper: i hit a microcode error while writing tetris
2020-07-04T13:40:37Z nabataeus: How is the machine emulated?
2020-07-04T13:41:50Z bitmapper: on alpha or on x86_64?
2020-07-04T13:42:27Z nabataeus: On x86_64
2020-07-04T13:45:36Z bitmapper: the x86_64 emulator was made by writing a program that translates alpha pseudo-assembly into C, and then just translating the alpha emulator
2020-07-04T13:49:53Z nabataeus: Never heard of pseudo-assembly.
2020-07-04T13:51:00Z nabataeus: But I think their 'Genera Concepts' guide would better explain this. Either ways thanks for your time o/
2020-07-04T13:51:06Z bitmapper: well, it's not a specific thing
2020-07-04T13:51:13Z bitmapper: nabataeus: nah it won't
2020-07-04T13:51:26Z bitmapper: i say pseudo-assembly because it's an encoding of assembly in lisp
2020-07-04T13:51:38Z p_l: nabataeus: VLM (Virtual Lisp Machine) essentially treated Alpha CPU as microcode engine
2020-07-04T13:52:19Z p_l: nabataeus: and using fine-tuned assembly implemented microcode engine for modified version of Ivory CPU (binaries between Ivory revs 0-4 and rev5 aka VLM are incompatible)
2020-07-04T13:53:02Z p_l: there's some C code which was taken from MacIvory/UX series code, except instead of talking to expansion board with real Ivory CPU it talks to the microcode engine
2020-07-04T13:54:01Z p_l: from hw other than CPU, the system presented is equivalent to UX-series symbolics lisp machines
2020-07-04T13:56:07Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T13:58:16Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-04T13:58:34Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T14:00:12Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-04T14:02:10Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T14:16:13Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T14:17:37Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T14:22:46Z dra_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T14:23:46Z dra_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-04T14:23:58Z dra_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T14:24:04Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T14:24:19Z dra_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T14:24:30Z dra joined #lisp
2020-07-04T14:28:52Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-04T14:29:22Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-04T14:29:49Z roelj left #lisp
2020-07-04T14:30:12Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-04T14:38:18Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-04T14:41:42Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-04T14:47:35Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-04T14:50:32Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-04T14:51:13Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T14:52:38Z adlai: nabataeus: there is still a teeny tiny market for the actual machines themselves, and their peripherals and replacement parts
2020-07-04T14:56:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T14:57:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T15:05:38Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T15:06:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T15:18:56Z easye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T15:19:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T15:20:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T15:22:54Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T15:34:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T15:35:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T15:39:04Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T15:39:43Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T15:49:53Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T15:52:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T15:59:28Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T16:00:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:05:03Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:06:19Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:14:14Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:14:30Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-04T16:19:56Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:20:20Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-04T16:23:43Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T16:24:33Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-04T16:25:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:30:55Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:30:59Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T16:31:06Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:31:56Z MrtnDk[m]: is Net splitty today?
2020-07-04T16:32:48Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:33:10Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-04T16:33:22Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:33:31Z dra quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T16:33:38Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-04T16:34:35Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:35:07Z nabataeus: adlai: Yeah I've heard you can contact Symbolics to get your own machine.
2020-07-04T16:35:17Z nabataeus: Though it's a bit pricey, isn't it?
2020-07-04T16:44:59Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:52:44Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-04T16:52:48Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:54:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T16:54:54Z papachan joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:05:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T17:06:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:07:25Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T17:19:56Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T17:20:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:20:48Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-04T17:21:54Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:26:16Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T17:28:54Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:29:00Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T17:29:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:33:09Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-04T17:33:33Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:38:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T17:38:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:46:39Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:46:54Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-04T17:46:57Z nabataeus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-04T17:48:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:50:13Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:51:04Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T17:51:24Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:53:59Z nabataeus joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:56:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T17:56:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:57:35Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-04T17:58:17Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-04T18:00:49Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T18:01:47Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-04T18:02:26Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T18:04:44Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-04T18:05:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:14:17Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:14:41Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:14:44Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-04T18:16:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:19:28Z nabataeus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-04T18:25:33Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:26:13Z bitmapper quit
2020-07-04T18:26:14Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T18:31:39Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:33:39Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T18:34:09Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:36:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:47:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T18:47:58Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-04T18:48:11Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:48:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:52:25Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:52:33Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T18:59:16Z papachan quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T18:59:37Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-04T18:59:51Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-04T19:01:34Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T19:02:31Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-04T19:02:43Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-04T19:19:27Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:22:22Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:22:44Z anlsh joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:23:14Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:26:30Z aeth: "Closos: Specification of a Lisp operating system (2013) [pdf]" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730107
2020-07-04T19:27:59Z nabataeus joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:28:04Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-04T19:29:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:30:24Z anlsh: I need an automatic documentation generator that doesn't produce output that belongs in the 80s, what are my options? Codex fits the bill, but I have some problems with its markup language Scriba
2020-07-04T19:31:10Z anlsh: Coo and Staple are broken out of the box for me, Coo just doesn't do anything and Staple only produces empty pages
2020-07-04T19:33:42Z anlsh: cldomain seems promising since it would let me leverage Python's sphinx, which people actually use, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to use it
2020-07-04T19:34:10Z anlsh: In fact its github page doesn't even link to its own documentation
2020-07-04T19:36:09Z sam_samiy_samson joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:36:44Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T19:38:31Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:49:59Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:51:19Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:53:46Z roze joined #lisp
2020-07-04T19:54:30Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-04T19:59:12Z phoe: anlsh: how is Staple broken?
2020-07-04T19:59:23Z hdasch quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.2 - http://znc.in)
2020-07-04T20:01:19Z anlsh: phoe: In fact it doesn't look like it is. For some reason, when I was trying to use it earlier it was simply generating empty pages without any of the symbols or docstrings in my package. After restarting my lisp image, the issue seems to have gone away
2020-07-04T20:01:36Z anlsh: I'm trying to get it to render the markdown in my docstrings now
2020-07-04T20:01:54Z phoe: anlsh: I think staple needs to be loaded before your stuff is loaded because that's how it recognizes what *new* stuff has been introduced since it was loaded
2020-07-04T20:02:07Z phoe: and what it needs to put in the documentation
2020-07-04T20:03:22Z anlsh: Well the README states that "For best immediate results you should not load your system before you load Staple, so that Staple can record the packages the system defines as it is being loaded", but it looks like "best immediate results"  should be replaced with "any results at all"
2020-07-04T20:03:37Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-04T20:05:30Z anlsh: I guess I thought that it would find the docstrings but not the list of packages
2020-07-04T20:13:09Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T20:17:33Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-04T20:18:05Z frgo_ quit
2020-07-04T20:31:22Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-04T20:32:30Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-04T20:36:52Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-04T20:39:54Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T20:42:40Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-04T20:44:22Z roze quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T20:45:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T20:45:05Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-04T20:54:00Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-04T20:57:49Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T20:57:55Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-04T20:57:59Z TwoNotes: #sbcl
2020-07-04T20:58:10Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-04T20:58:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T20:59:34Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T20:59:45Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:00:06Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:02:54Z anlsh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T21:05:45Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T21:12:01Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T21:14:15Z gabot quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-04T21:14:46Z gabot joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:18:03Z jonatack quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-04T21:22:00Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:22:16Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:22:51Z mikecheck joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:25:35Z SenasOzys joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:26:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T21:26:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:27:13Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-04T21:27:28Z SenasOzys quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-04T21:27:50Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:27:50Z SenasOzys joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:29:03Z SenasOzys quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T21:29:20Z SenasOzys joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:30:33Z SenasOzys quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T21:31:36Z mikecheck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T21:33:14Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T21:42:29Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-04T21:44:42Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T21:46:55Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:57:18Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-04T21:58:10Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T22:00:03Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-04T22:01:36Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-04T22:03:50Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T22:15:44Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T22:16:59Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T22:23:46Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T22:32:44Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T22:32:44Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-04T22:33:48Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-04T22:34:51Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-04T22:39:05Z stux|RC-only quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-04T22:45:07Z frgo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T22:45:43Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-04T22:46:03Z ayuce quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-04T22:49:06Z jcowan joined #lisp
2020-07-04T22:49:39Z jcowan: I would like some help figuring out what a "structure-object introspector" for programmatic use should give access to.
2020-07-04T22:50:26Z jcowan: Given a structure-class, what would be useful to extract from it?
2020-07-04T22:55:43Z phoe: since a structure-class is a standard object, I guess you can view all of its slots as if you viewed any other standard object
2020-07-04T22:56:40Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T22:56:43Z phoe: the question is if the MOP says anything about the slots available in CLASS objects, not just STANDARD-CLASS objects
2020-07-04T22:57:24Z phoe: ...not really, http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-class.html says nothing in particular
2020-07-04T22:57:45Z phoe: so we can't really portably infer anything about the contents of STRUCTURE-CLASS objects by looking at CLASS objects
2020-07-04T22:58:26Z phoe: unless you find some other way in the MOP that I am not yet aware of
2020-07-04T22:58:29Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T22:58:36Z Bike: what you should be looking at is whether class-slots as a method on structure-class (it doesn't). mop doesn't define any standard class's slots
2020-07-04T22:58:38Z phoe: or decide to go for some sort of a portability library.
2020-07-04T22:58:57Z phoe: Bike: ah, correct!
2020-07-04T22:59:09Z Bike: has a method*
2020-07-04T22:59:55Z Bike: that said, implementations generally have one as an extension, or have class hierarchy changes for it
2020-07-04T23:00:24Z phoe: if slot-value works on all implementations then I guess class-slots should, too
2020-07-04T23:00:31Z phoe: s/slot-value/slot-value on structs/
2020-07-04T23:00:44Z phoe: even though it's technically UB
2020-07-04T23:02:06Z grewal: Is "Common Lisp in the Wild: Deploying Common Lisp Apps with Confidence" by Wimpie Nortje worth buying?
2020-07-04T23:03:47Z Bike: slot-value could work even if class-slots doesn't, i suppose
2020-07-04T23:03:55Z Bike: don't know why it would be done that way, of course
2020-07-04T23:04:21Z phoe: Bike: hence "should"
2020-07-04T23:04:28Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T23:04:29Z Bike: oh
2020-07-04T23:04:35Z phoe: obviously we're already in UB territory, so everything can go
2020-07-04T23:15:31Z sam_samiy_samson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T23:19:36Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-04T23:24:50Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T23:26:42Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-04T23:27:39Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-04T23:32:35Z anticrisis joined #lisp
2020-07-04T23:36:43Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-04T23:38:07Z anticrisis quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-04T23:38:28Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-04T23:41:36Z iarebatman joined #lisp
2020-07-04T23:43:24Z ArthurStrong joined #lisp
2020-07-04T23:50:29Z mathrick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-04T23:51:07Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-04T23:51:41Z ealfonso joined #lisp
2020-07-04T23:53:34Z ealfonso: is there a webdav client? I only know of cl-webdav, which is a server, and cadaver which is CLI
2020-07-04T23:57:54Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T23:58:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-04T23:59:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T00:05:45Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T00:19:25Z jcowan: It would certainly have to be a portability library.
2020-07-05T00:20:24Z jcowan: But my question is not "What facilities do existing CLs actually provide?" but "What facilities should such a library provide?"  The first can be settled by investigation, the second only by design.
2020-07-05T00:21:39Z jcowan: The maximalist version would be something that given a structure-object would return its structure-class, and then functions or methods that given a structure-class would return the de re values of the keyword arguments to defstruct (that is, the actual functions etc., not their names).
2020-07-05T00:22:29Z jcowan: That would be sufficient, given a structure-class, to construct another structure-class just like it (using eval); if you don't want to use eval, there would also need to be a function that is the equivalent of defstruct.
2020-07-05T00:24:01Z jcowan: The first requirement is met by class-of, at least I hope it is.  But is it actually necessary in practice to find out *all* those things about a given structure-object in order to usefully manipulate it without knowing the names of the copier, constructor, predicate, etc. etc.?
2020-07-05T00:24:20Z jcowan: IOW, is there a subset of them that is still useful?
2020-07-05T00:26:27Z Bike: if i was designing from scratch i would drop the defstruct interface because it sucks, and instead have a new metaclass/whatever that indicates no redefinition is possible but still defines through defclass
2020-07-05T00:26:37Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T00:35:42Z Frobozz_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T00:37:25Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T00:38:43Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T00:39:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T00:39:16Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-05T00:40:52Z jcowan: I see there is a QL library called deftclass that allows you to create a class as if it were a struct: that is, with minimum mental (and typing) overhead.  I haven't explored it closely yet.
2020-07-05T00:46:57Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T00:47:03Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T01:01:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T01:02:23Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T01:03:08Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-05T01:04:46Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T01:21:58Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-05T01:27:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T01:28:33Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T01:31:13Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-05T01:32:01Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T01:32:31Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-05T01:33:41Z karlosz quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-05T01:40:14Z ealfonso quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T01:42:45Z ealfonso joined #lisp
2020-07-05T01:43:21Z lalilulelo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T01:45:08Z aeth: Bike: no need for that to be a from-scratch design since you could just deprecate DEFSTRUCT and have it simply be sugar for creating the metaclass (as well as the handful of other things it creates, like COPY-FOO and MAKE-FOO)
2020-07-05T01:45:56Z aeth: (well... to be deprecated in a future revision, which is even more meaningless than being deprecated)
2020-07-05T01:46:51Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-05T01:51:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T01:52:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T01:52:37Z aeth: A standard implementation of DEFSTRUCT on top of DEFCLASS could be an interesting CDR, if people still do that.
2020-07-05T01:52:41Z lucasb quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-05T01:54:45Z dmiles joined #lisp
2020-07-05T01:56:53Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T02:00:21Z dominic34 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-05T02:00:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T02:00:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T02:05:06Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-05T02:05:28Z coltkirk joined #lisp
2020-07-05T02:08:30Z coltkirk: hello, i'm tying to use the maiden package to make an irc bot (in another room). https://pastebin.com/vSbm6vrJ there's the paste. I'm using slime/sbcl.
2020-07-05T02:09:00Z Bike: are you running into a problem?
2020-07-05T02:09:52Z coltkirk: yes, I type the code in exactly as the official documentation states, but get several errors. The connection attempts but fails in a loop
2020-07-05T02:21:03Z Bike: i probably can't help you, but you'll get better advice if you describe the problem in detail, such as by putting the error messages in a pastebin
2020-07-05T02:22:45Z ealfonso: I like the explicit error handling approach of golang and google c++ statusor, is there something similar in lisp?
2020-07-05T02:23:42Z Bike: how does it work?
2020-07-05T02:26:36Z ealfonso: in c++ there is a type StatusOr<T>, which could be a value or an error. then there are macros: ASSIGN_OR_RETURN(auto value, file::GetFileContents(filename));
2020-07-05T02:27:29Z ealfonso: GetFileContents may return a status (error), which is propagated to the caller of the function containing ASSIGN_OR_RETURN
2020-07-05T02:27:35Z Bike: so an option type?
2020-07-05T02:27:50Z ealfonso: assuming that function also has a StatusOr<T> type
2020-07-05T02:27:56Z ealfonso: return type.
2020-07-05T02:30:44Z ealfonso: yeah, I wasn't familiar with the name "option type". I haven't seen much CL code using this pattenr
2020-07-05T02:31:14Z Bike: me neither. it's related to having things that return a value or nil, but more involved with the monad kind of stuff
2020-07-05T02:40:51Z ealfonso: the thing about returning nil for an error is that it makes it hard for a lower-level utility function to propagate the reason of an error up the stack to a caller who may be in a better position to handle it, e.g. display a message to the user, try again, etc. of course this could be done using conditions.
2020-07-05T02:41:42Z ealfonso: but it seems more tedious to define the condition, handle it.
2020-07-05T02:42:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T02:42:04Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T02:42:52Z ealfonso: if-let doesn't give you context on where execution stopped because of a nil, and why
2020-07-05T02:44:42Z ealfonso: another problem with nil as sentinel for error is that it conflicts with "empty, no error"
2020-07-05T02:50:05Z ealfonso: one could write an "if-let-ok" macro, where the let expressions return an option type as 2-values, and with the "else" clause capturing the first non-ok option. but it would be an uphill battle since most existing code doesn't use this convention.
2020-07-05T02:54:04Z jcowan: https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-189/srfi-189.html is a very new proposal for Maybe aka Option and Either types for Scheme, but there is no reason it couldn't be translated to CL.  It also has a number of protocol converters that interchange between Maybe objects and various other conventions: value or NIL, 1 or more values or 0 values, etc. etc.
2020-07-05T02:56:37Z hifitim joined #lisp
2020-07-05T02:57:14Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-05T02:57:27Z hifitim quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-05T02:59:13Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T03:05:04Z ealfonso: interesting. yeah, I'm curious to follow how that will go, and maybe it could be adapted to CL.
2020-07-05T03:06:26Z ealfonso: for now I will start using an "if-let-ok" macro pattern for new code and seeing how it goes
2020-07-05T03:07:40Z MichaelRaskin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-05T03:08:26Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T03:13:49Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T03:14:04Z Bike: i feel like monads use some of their luster in an environment that doesn't use a lot of pattern matching
2020-07-05T03:14:37Z coltkirk: for what it's worth, although the new package 'maiden,' does not work as described, the former package 'colleen' seems to work just fine.
2020-07-05T03:14:41Z Bike: plus Just conses
2020-07-05T03:15:07Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T03:15:41Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-05T03:26:03Z coltkirk quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1))
2020-07-05T03:42:18Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-05T03:43:01Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-05T03:48:20Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-05T03:59:59Z jcowan: ealfonso: It's stable now.
2020-07-05T04:00:47Z jcowan: The general monad library does what Haskell does under the covers: you pass around an object with procedures in it that contain the basic necessities.
2020-07-05T04:03:40Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T04:06:33Z beach: aeth: Do you happen to know who started the CLOSOS reference in that discussion?
2020-07-05T04:10:50Z beach: Speaking of DEFSTRUCT, I think I will do exactly what is suggested.  It will just be a layer on top of the general STANDARD-CLASS features, with a separate metaclass and an additional superclass.  So STRUCTURE-CLASS will be at the same level as STANDARD-CLASS in the hierarchy, and STRUCTURE-OBJECT will be a direct subclass of STANDARD-OBJECT, or a parallel one in case it is not allowed to have it a subclass.
2020-07-05T04:12:40Z KaiLikesLinux joined #lisp
2020-07-05T04:12:47Z Bike: i think that would be allowed by 4.2.2
2020-07-05T04:12:57Z beach: Yeah, I think so too.
2020-07-05T04:13:11Z jcowan: THat makes a lot of sense to me.
2020-07-05T04:13:12Z Bike: well, depending on ho w"that does not already specify either" etc is interpreted
2020-07-05T04:13:57Z beach: It is not that important.  I can change it easily if that should be required.
2020-07-05T04:27:35Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T04:28:25Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-05T04:30:30Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T04:41:01Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T04:48:34Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T05:16:41Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-05T05:34:19Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-05T05:34:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T05:45:30Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T05:45:39Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T05:52:37Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-05T06:00:31Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T06:10:14Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-05T06:10:40Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-05T06:10:49Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T06:12:18Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T06:15:14Z fixing_auth_hold joined #lisp
2020-07-05T06:19:22Z lalilulelo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T06:19:35Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-05T06:19:38Z fixing_auth_hold quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-05T06:20:07Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T06:21:04Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-05T06:24:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T06:24:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T06:27:13Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T06:31:50Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-05T06:34:28Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T06:35:01Z matzy_: does anyone else find cl-dbi to be weird when trying to POST data to a mysql table?
2020-07-05T06:45:49Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T06:47:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T06:58:00Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:12:25Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:13:11Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:19:37Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:22:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T07:22:49Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:26:15Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:26:35Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T07:26:49Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:27:37Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:28:14Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T07:28:17Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:31:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T07:45:04Z matzy_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-05T07:46:08Z phoe: hmmmm
2020-07-05T07:46:26Z phoe: I have a method on INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :AFTER that validates the keyword arguments and stuff
2020-07-05T07:46:52Z phoe: but I just came into a situation where I want REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE to also perform that validation
2020-07-05T07:47:08Z beach: Do it on SHARED-INITIALIZE instead.
2020-07-05T07:47:37Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T07:48:18Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:48:21Z phoe: yes, I'm just thinking if I've been doing The Incorrect Thing™ for this whole time - using INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :BEFORE/:AFTER for validating stuff
2020-07-05T07:48:39Z beach: It happens.
2020-07-05T07:48:41Z phoe: since REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE will not perform that validation
2020-07-05T07:48:49Z beach: Indeed.
2020-07-05T07:48:56Z beach: phoe: Is the online Lisp meeting still on tomorrow?
2020-07-05T07:48:58Z phoe: like, time to rewrite all the code I've written so far
2020-07-05T07:49:00Z phoe: beach: yes
2020-07-05T07:49:06Z beach: What time?
2020-07-05T07:49:12Z phoe: 13:00 CEST
2020-07-05T07:49:22Z beach: Perfect.
2020-07-05T07:49:30Z beach: What is CEST?  UTC+2?
2020-07-05T07:50:07Z beach: I mean the `S' suggests "standard", but we are on daylight savings time.
2020-07-05T07:50:42Z beach: So logically, if it is UTC+2, it should be CEDT, but I don't much like those abbreviations, no doubt inspired from the US.
2020-07-05T07:50:54Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T07:51:10Z phoe: ha! it means Central European Summer Time
2020-07-05T07:51:18Z beach: Ouch.
2020-07-05T07:51:28Z phoe: I had to double-check because I also thought it was "standard"
2020-07-05T07:51:30Z phoe: https://time.is/pl/CEST
2020-07-05T07:52:24Z beach: OK.
2020-07-05T07:53:05Z beach: And is there more than one presentation?
2020-07-05T07:53:38Z beach: My (admittedly small) family seems to get email from you, but I don't, and idurand does not get any either, I think.
2020-07-05T07:54:01Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:54:22Z phoe: huh!
2020-07-05T07:54:31Z phoe: are you subscribed to https://mailman.common-lisp.net/listinfo/online-lisp-meets ?
2020-07-05T07:54:48Z phoe: my mail is there: https://mailman.common-lisp.net/pipermail/online-lisp-meets/2020-June/000013.html
2020-07-05T07:54:49Z beach: I wasn't aware of its existence.
2020-07-05T07:54:58Z phoe: now you are, then!
2020-07-05T07:55:05Z beach: Yes, thanks.
2020-07-05T07:58:51Z flip214_: Can I print a simple-base-string with a max number of characters, with "..." appended if it is cut short? FORMAT doesn't do that, sb-ext:*print-vector-length* isn't standard. Is there some other *print-...* special I can use?
2020-07-05T07:59:16Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T07:59:57Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T08:00:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T08:02:14Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T08:05:04Z phoe: flip214_: AFAIK not
2020-07-05T08:05:11Z phoe: nothing in the standard
2020-07-05T08:06:10Z phoe: beach: hey, SHARED-INITIALIZE is a pleasure to use
2020-07-05T08:06:14Z pve: flip214_: unless you're doing a library, I guess you could define a print-object method that checks if *chop-strings* is non-nil
2020-07-05T08:06:21Z beach: phoe: I agree.
2020-07-05T08:08:41Z beach: pve: What would that method specialize to?
2020-07-05T08:10:30Z pve: beach: not sure.. simple-base-string?
2020-07-05T08:10:35Z phoe: pve: can't
2020-07-05T08:10:42Z beach: That would be non-conforming.
2020-07-05T08:10:56Z pve: then today I learned
2020-07-05T08:11:22Z phoe: you cannot define a method on a standard generic function whose specializers are all standard as well
2020-07-05T08:11:28Z phoe: since these are reserved to the Lisp system
2020-07-05T08:11:51Z phoe: so e.g. you cannot (defmethod print-object ((object string) stream) ...)
2020-07-05T08:12:19Z pve: no fun :(
2020-07-05T08:12:36Z pve: i mean, makes sense
2020-07-05T08:12:58Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-05T08:13:05Z beach: The exact rule is, you can't define a method on a specified generic function that is applicable when given only instances of specified classes.  And that rule is not restricted to Common Lisp.  It is valid for (well written) libraries as well.
2020-07-05T08:13:29Z phoe: re previous discussion: now I need to figure out whether I want SHARED-INITIALIZE :BEFORE, SHARED-INITIALIZE :AFTER, or disqualified SHARED-INITIALIZE with CALL-NEXT-METHOD inside...
2020-07-05T08:13:33Z phoe: hm
2020-07-05T08:13:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T08:14:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T08:14:39Z beach: phoe: You want a primary method or an :AROUND method if you need to modify the arguments in some situtations.
2020-07-05T08:14:42Z beach: situations
2020-07-05T08:15:27Z phoe: beach: in this case, I want just to signal an error if validation fails.
2020-07-05T08:15:40Z beach: Then :BEFORE or :AFTER are fine.
2020-07-05T08:16:08Z phoe: ...oh wow! primary/around methods on SHARED-INITIALIZE is immune to that one issue that I've noticed with INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :AFTER constructors
2020-07-05T08:16:23Z phoe: namely that the CHECK-TYPE restart misbehaves in INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :AFTER
2020-07-05T08:16:57Z phoe: today I became a better Lisp programmer
2020-07-05T08:17:06Z beach: Congratulations!
2020-07-05T08:17:30Z pve: Where does it say you can't do naughty things with print-object? I can't seem to find it..
2020-07-05T08:18:09Z phoe: clhs 11.1.2.1.2
2020-07-05T08:18:10Z specbot: Constraints on the COMMON-LISP Package for Conforming Programs: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm
2020-07-05T08:18:12Z phoe: point 19
2020-07-05T08:18:21Z phoe: "19. Defining a method for a standardized generic function which is applicable when all of the arguments are direct instances of standardized classes."
2020-07-05T08:18:46Z pve: ah, thanks
2020-07-05T08:18:58Z pve: I was reading print-object like an idiot
2020-07-05T08:19:07Z phoe: not really like an idiot
2020-07-05T08:19:17Z phoe: the standard gets some time to get used to
2020-07-05T08:19:25Z phoe: and things inside it are really in weird places sometimes
2020-07-05T08:20:14Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T08:20:44Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T08:20:44Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-05T08:20:44Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T08:24:46Z beach: phoe: Here is another thing that will make you a (slightly) better programmer.  Standard FIND-METHOD takes either a class metaobject or a list (EQL object) in the list of specializers.  But accepting a class name is an SBCL extension.
2020-07-05T08:25:25Z beach: phoe: You use this extension to remove a method on PRINT-OBJECT if the :REPORT option is absent.
2020-07-05T08:25:43Z phoe: beach: :REPORT, you mean for conditions?
2020-07-05T08:25:49Z beach: Yes.
2020-07-05T08:26:11Z beach: My current mission is to study your portable condition system.
2020-07-05T08:29:06Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-05T08:29:59Z matzy_: is it possible to check the types of each individual memnber of a list?  i'm having a hard time finding function that does that on the hyperspec
2020-07-05T08:30:49Z beach: Are they all of the same type?
2020-07-05T08:34:47Z beach: Or, if not, and if you can describe the types as a regular expression, you can use the RTE technique designed by Jim Newton and Didier Verna.
2020-07-05T08:36:34Z phoe: matzy_: you can, (every (rcurry #'typep 'foo) list)
2020-07-05T08:36:58Z phoe: or, if you want a type-system solution, what beach said
2020-07-05T08:38:14Z matzy_: its confusing, because i'm passing them as URL params in a POST body, but cl-dbi will only take them if I wrap each in double-quotes and even then smashes them into the same column with the column names included
2020-07-05T08:39:22Z matzy_: i'm admitting the first column which is an auto-incrementing id column from my INSERT, but I assume that OK
2020-07-05T08:40:40Z flip214_: phoe: pve: thanks!
2020-07-05T08:41:04Z pve: flip214_: I was wrong, don't do what I said
2020-07-05T08:42:09Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T08:43:02Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T08:43:19Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T08:43:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T08:49:05Z isaac joined #lisp
2020-07-05T08:49:12Z isaac is now known as iissaacc
2020-07-05T08:53:21Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-05T09:03:02Z phoe: CLOS really is amazing
2020-07-05T09:06:36Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T09:08:08Z phoe: making instantiation, reinitialization, and two kinds of updates programmable
2020-07-05T09:12:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T09:13:09Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T09:14:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-05T09:14:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T09:24:50Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-05T09:29:30Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T09:29:49Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T09:29:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T09:30:44Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-05T09:31:53Z KaiLikesLinux left #lisp
2020-07-05T09:32:18Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T09:33:28Z ealfonso quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T09:36:25Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-05T09:36:52Z gaqwas: hello
2020-07-05T09:36:54Z gaqwas: uhm... is this a typo in the HyperSpec?
2020-07-05T09:37:02Z gaqwas: "In an unless form, if the test-form yields *false*, the forms are evaluated[..] Otherwise, if the test-form yields *false* (sic?), the forms are not evaluated, "
2020-07-05T09:37:11Z gaqwas: I'm a beginner
2020-07-05T09:38:33Z phoe: gaqwas: most possible
2020-07-05T09:38:34Z phoe: which page is that?
2020-07-05T09:39:14Z phoe: if it's UNLESS, then it's known
2020-07-05T09:39:18Z phoe: see https://www.cliki.net/ANSI%20Clarifications%20and%20Errata
2020-07-05T09:39:52Z ursuta_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T09:40:36Z gaqwas: phoe, this page: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/m_when_.htm
2020-07-05T09:41:05Z gaqwas: ah, okay. Thank you, phoe
2020-07-05T09:45:35Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T09:47:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T09:49:02Z aeth: beach: Sorry, I don't recognize the name of the thread's original poster.
2020-07-05T09:55:51Z beach: aeth: OK, not important.  Thanks for trying.
2020-07-05T09:58:20Z beach: aeth: I am not use to Hacker News.  Is it possible, starting from that link, to back up in the history?
2020-07-05T09:58:41Z aeth: It looks like they posted twice: https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=ska80
2020-07-05T09:58:46Z aeth: once 6 months ago
2020-07-05T09:58:54Z aeth: (posted the link, I mean)
2020-07-05T09:59:04Z aeth: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ska80
2020-07-05T09:59:05Z beach: I see.  Thanks again.
2020-07-05T10:02:03Z beach: It seems I can only get to the thread starting with heisig.
2020-07-05T10:04:29Z aeth: You can click on the [-] to collapse that thread. It's a bit hard to see the left line by default (I actually modify the style locally with a browser plugin)
2020-07-05T10:04:50Z aeth: There are only two other comments outside of that thread
2020-07-05T10:06:39Z beach: OK, thanks.  I don't think this stuff was made for me.  I wasn't looking to collapse the thread.  I was wondering what prompted heisig to talk about CLOSOS, but I see now way to get to the previous message in the thread.
2020-07-05T10:06:49Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T10:07:06Z beach: Maybe there isn't one, and heisig decided to spontaneously write this.
2020-07-05T10:07:28Z aeth: oh sorry, I guess you haven't seen the website before. The thread is about Closos
2020-07-05T10:07:48Z aeth: These sorts of websites are structured so that there's a link or a text post at the top, and everything else is a threaded reply to it
2020-07-05T10:07:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:08:00Z aeth: The top level is: Closos: Specification of a Lisp operating system (2013) [pdf] (metamodular.com) which is a link to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730107
2020-07-05T10:08:16Z aeth: so ska80 started the conversation on CLOSOS, not heisig
2020-07-05T10:08:26Z beach: So the first post was just a link to my pdf?
2020-07-05T10:08:27Z beach: OK.
2020-07-05T10:08:39Z aeth: yes
2020-07-05T10:08:46Z stoneglass joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:08:52Z beach: I get it now.  Thanks for all your help.
2020-07-05T10:09:38Z aeth: You're welcome. And, yes, that website design was confusing to me, too, when I first saw it, probably 10 years ago.
2020-07-05T10:10:19Z beach: I can imagine.  I don't have time to hang out in yet another place.  Especially one with this kind of exchange.  So I will probably always be confused.
2020-07-05T10:10:32Z aeth: It's a forum started by Paul Graham, so Lisp stuff sometimes trends on it, but not anywhere near as much as it used to.
2020-07-05T10:11:09Z beach: I think I must have heard that somewhere.
2020-07-05T10:11:18Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:11:35Z aeth: It is the only known piece of public software written in Arc, the Lisp language that flopped. (Other than Arc implementations themselves, of course.)
2020-07-05T10:11:52Z beach: Interesting.
2020-07-05T10:12:01Z aeth: So I guess that dates the website to 2008.
2020-07-05T10:12:13Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T10:16:19Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T10:17:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:25:13Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:25:13Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-05T10:25:14Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:27:55Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T10:31:14Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:33:34Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T10:33:53Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:34:06Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-05T10:34:40Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T10:34:40Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-05T10:36:47Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:39:32Z phoe: Hmmmm
2020-07-05T10:39:56Z phoe: if I want to use CHECK-TYPE properly inside SHARED-INITIALIZE, I assume that I must do that inside an :AROUND or primary method
2020-07-05T10:40:13Z phoe: and then CALL-NEXT-METHOD explicitly with all arguments, in case the CHECK-TYPE restart modifies the variables
2020-07-05T10:40:57Z phoe: seems verbose; I wonder how I can shrink it
2020-07-05T10:44:07Z phoe: hm
2020-07-05T10:44:10Z phoe: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1940#1940
2020-07-05T10:44:52Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T10:45:06Z frgo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T10:45:42Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:46:02Z phoe: that is it for four slots
2020-07-05T10:47:22Z aeth: phoe: You might be approaching the problem wrong. Personally, I type check at slot setting (to cover initialization and setters). Unfortunately, because this uses the MOP, I have to use ASSERT instead of CHECK-TYPE because the type isn't available at compile time. https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zr-utils/-/blob/master/metaobject.lisp
2020-07-05T10:47:29Z aeth: There might be another, better place to intercept things, too.
2020-07-05T10:48:51Z phoe: oh right, typed slots
2020-07-05T10:49:12Z phoe: can I use that with typechecking lists? like, assert that every element of the list is of type FOO
2020-07-05T10:49:19Z aeth: Well, yes and no. You can't rely on :type because SBCL doesn't typecheck at default optimization levels, which means that 80-90% of your users won't actually have typechecks there if you use :type
2020-07-05T10:49:28Z phoe: aeth: I mean *custom* typed slots
2020-07-05T10:49:29Z aeth: You also can't call it :type and override it iirc
2020-07-05T10:49:32Z aeth: So I call it :checked-type
2020-07-05T10:49:35Z aeth: Maybe there's a better name
2020-07-05T10:49:45Z phoe: yes, that sounds okay
2020-07-05T10:50:27Z aeth: phoe: You can of course use a SATISFIES type, but I probably should just make it a generalized precondition/postcondition system since I'm using ASSERT anyway.
2020-07-05T10:50:39Z aeth: (Which probably means up to two asserts per slot.)
2020-07-05T10:51:51Z aeth: I should probably move the file I linked to into its own library because it's independent of my zr-utils and it's pretty much complete and usable, unlike the rest of it.
2020-07-05T10:52:57Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T10:53:02Z phoe: tempting
2020-07-05T10:53:10Z phoe: I'll think of using it if/when you do so
2020-07-05T10:53:52Z aeth: The hardest part is probably naming it
2020-07-05T10:54:01Z phoe: "checked-slots"
2020-07-05T10:54:10Z phoe: or "typechecked-slots"
2020-07-05T10:54:27Z phoe: also, line 33 has a bug - it's ASSERT TYPEP, not CHECK-TYPE
2020-07-05T10:54:52Z phoe: and so the established restart is named CONTINUE instead of STORE-VALUE
2020-07-05T10:55:18Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:55:31Z aeth: Well, it wouldn't just be type checked because I'd add a second slot for general assertions, mainly for sequence/etc. checking.
2020-07-05T10:55:33Z phoe: I'd actually be pedantic and manually expand a CHECK-TYPE in there to make it possible to pass the type dynamically at runtime, so the STORE-VALUE restart is preserved
2020-07-05T10:55:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T10:55:39Z phoe: oh! welll then
2020-07-05T10:55:44Z phoe: "pedantic-slots"
2020-07-05T10:55:50Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:56:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T10:57:05Z aeth: phoe: How could you use a CHECK-TYPE at all in there? CHECK-TYPE's type isn't quoted. MACROLET?
2020-07-05T10:57:31Z aeth: I don't think I've ever used a MACROLET because they're nearly impossible to debug when someone else uses them.
2020-07-05T10:58:48Z aeth: Although if I guess if I did use a CHECK-TYPE it would probably make the other custom argument fairly obvious: checked-assertion...
2020-07-05T10:59:10Z phoe: aeth: don't
2020-07-05T10:59:35Z phoe: I'd write my own CHECK-TYPE equivalent that evaluates the type argument
2020-07-05T11:01:20Z phoe: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1941#1941
2020-07-05T11:02:09Z phoe: plus minus ONCE-ONLY on the TYPE variable
2020-07-05T11:02:31Z phoe: one sec, let me fix this...
2020-07-05T11:05:05Z phoe: there
2020-07-05T11:05:17Z phoe: should compile fine
2020-07-05T11:05:28Z phoe: based on quickly and roughly adapted PCS code
2020-07-05T11:06:08Z phoe: feel free to use this code freely since it's CC0
2020-07-05T11:06:19Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T11:07:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T11:14:14Z aeth: thanks
2020-07-05T11:14:21Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-05T11:19:14Z phoe: (huh, writing this kind of stuff becomes suspiciously trivial once you've written your own condition system)
2020-07-05T11:21:58Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T11:26:28Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-05T11:31:22Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-05T11:31:54Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T11:42:19Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T11:43:00Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-05T11:43:38Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T11:47:42Z aeth: phoe: Oh, can you look over my conditions file? https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zr-utils/-/blob/master/conditions.lisp
2020-07-05T11:48:08Z aeth: phoe: Those were the most common (error foo) patterns in my engine so I turned those into define-conditions a while back.
2020-07-05T11:49:08Z aeth: The idea of putting it in my utility library (and I might even move that into its own standalone library) is that that makes it easier for different libraries/programs to use the same conditions
2020-07-05T11:50:58Z phoe: aeth: you don't export accessors
2020-07-05T11:51:33Z aeth: Oh, hmm, I guess I don't. This is why I like exports at the top of the file. Makes it easier to spot that kind of thing.
2020-07-05T11:52:04Z phoe: a unit test suite would have caught this sort of thing - which is why I try to unit test every single thing I can
2020-07-05T11:52:16Z aeth: I didn't want to unit test my util library until I spun it off.
2020-07-05T11:52:23Z aeth: which was fairly recently
2020-07-05T11:52:23Z phoe: gotcha
2020-07-05T11:52:59Z phoe: I'd split longer report functions into their own named functions, but that's a matter of taste
2020-07-05T11:53:48Z aeth: I probably will build those out of helper functions/macros at some point, but I haven't written enough to make clear patterns
2020-07-05T11:54:01Z phoe: and the starting vowel kind of stuff literally begs to be a helper function unto its own
2020-07-05T11:54:22Z phoe: that nested IF also kind of wants to be rewritten as a COND
2020-07-05T11:55:34Z aeth: yeah, I'm not very happy with that lambda in general... it was pretty tricky to write and iirc it was more about getting it to work correctly with the (REPL, not unit) tests.
2020-07-05T11:55:49Z phoe: oh right
2020-07-05T11:55:56Z aeth: Quite a few different branches, but they're all useful because of how common that error is
2020-07-05T11:56:14Z phoe: another reason for unit tests, one can refactor and check if they still pass
2020-07-05T11:56:52Z aeth: Right, which is probably why I haven't refactored it yet
2020-07-05T11:57:37Z aeth: I could probably build required-input-error into another, third assertion in the checked-types metaclass
2020-07-05T12:02:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T12:02:48Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:04:25Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T12:05:34Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:05:37Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T12:06:19Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:07:55Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:08:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T12:08:29Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:18:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T12:18:40Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T12:20:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:28:16Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T12:38:49Z matzy_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-05T12:39:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:40:59Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:40:59Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-05T12:40:59Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:41:37Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T12:47:16Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T12:47:20Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:50:22Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T12:54:04Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-05T12:59:33Z ym joined #lisp
2020-07-05T13:01:37Z ym: Hi. Should #+t (princ 'test) work? Doesn't work for me with sbcl 2.0.1.
2020-07-05T13:01:37Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T13:02:23Z Bike: #+t means it checks if :t is in *features*, and it probably isn't.
2020-07-05T13:02:34Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T13:02:35Z Inline: heh
2020-07-05T13:02:51Z Bike: you can use #+(and) if you want something facile
2020-07-05T13:02:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T13:05:22Z ym: Oh. Got it. Thanks.
2020-07-05T13:11:01Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T13:11:56Z TMA: ym: or #-(or) for one character shorter alternative
2020-07-05T13:25:55Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-05T13:26:25Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T13:26:33Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-05T13:26:41Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T13:29:01Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T13:31:28Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T13:36:34Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T13:39:20Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-05T13:40:30Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T13:47:39Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T13:49:27Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T13:49:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T13:50:55Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T13:53:01Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T14:03:04Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T14:03:19Z Mawile joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:04:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:06:49Z Archenoth quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T14:10:03Z jcowan: aeth: I never thought macrolet/let-syntax made very much sense.  "In section 2 of this paper, the notation A ~ B means blablabla, but in all other sections it means bliblibli".  Who organizes papers like that?
2020-07-05T14:16:50Z Bike: that seems like more generally a problem with shadowing
2020-07-05T14:16:56Z Bike: which is indeed kinda crap most of the time
2020-07-05T14:17:13Z phoe: you mean lexical shadowing?
2020-07-05T14:18:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T14:18:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:19:22Z Bike: are there other kinds? like in a package i guess? yes, i mean lexical
2020-07-05T14:19:30Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:19:46Z Bike: i use macrolet but not for shadowing
2020-07-05T14:23:06Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:23:07Z jcowan: In Dijkstra's guarded-command language, if you refer to a variable in an inner block you must redeclare it there
2020-07-05T14:28:35Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-05T14:30:22Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:39:54Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T14:41:05Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:41:37Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T14:46:02Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T14:47:44Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:48:57Z isBEKaml quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-05T14:50:21Z hineios730393479 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:50:58Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T14:52:44Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:56:37Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:58:10Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T14:58:13Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T15:00:11Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:00:28Z isBEKaml quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-05T15:00:54Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:03:11Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:03:50Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-05T15:06:44Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-05T15:06:55Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:12:24Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-05T15:13:49Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T15:14:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:14:12Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T15:14:40Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:24:31Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:25:27Z stoneglass quit (Quit: stoneglass)
2020-07-05T15:29:00Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T15:30:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:30:46Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T15:32:52Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T15:34:13Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:36:17Z ursuta_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T15:36:55Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T15:37:04Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:38:28Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T15:38:54Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T15:42:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T15:43:10Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:44:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:48:09Z phoe: aaaa
2020-07-05T15:48:13Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T15:48:24Z phoe: my SHARED-INITIALIZE method is buggy
2020-07-05T15:49:58Z hineios730393479 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T15:51:34Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-05T15:54:52Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:01:04Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T16:02:46Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:03:51Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:06:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T16:09:13Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-05T16:11:14Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T16:11:56Z phoe: Should (REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE X) generally be a no-op? Is that the idea behind it?
2020-07-05T16:12:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:12:08Z phoe: I mean, I explicitly provide no initargs there.
2020-07-05T16:13:35Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:13:49Z beach: Sounds right.
2020-07-05T16:15:07Z beach: I mean, I don't think there is a requirement like that.  If you stick an :AROUND method that supplies initargs, I don't think that is illegal.
2020-07-05T16:15:12Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:15:12Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-05T16:15:12Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:17:29Z phoe: "The generic function reinitialize-instance can be used to change the values of local slots of an instance according to initargs."
2020-07-05T16:18:03Z phoe: I can kinda infer that if the user supplies no INITARGS then the user may expect nothing to change
2020-07-05T16:18:10Z phoe: but then again, nothing is really set in stone on that CLHS page
2020-07-05T16:18:12Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T16:18:17Z phoe: www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_reinit.htm
2020-07-05T16:18:33Z beach: Sure, but it depends on who the "user" is here.
2020-07-05T16:18:33Z phoe: but
2020-07-05T16:18:35Z phoe: clhs 7.3
2020-07-05T16:18:35Z specbot: Reinitializing an Instance: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_c.htm
2020-07-05T16:18:44Z phoe: "The process of reinitialization changes the values of some slots (...)"
2020-07-05T16:18:55Z phoe: okay then, mutation can freely happen
2020-07-05T16:21:46Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T16:22:50Z phoe: the initialization subsystem of CLOS is fascinating
2020-07-05T16:22:55Z Bike: what are you expecting to call reinitialize-instance with no kwargs anyway?
2020-07-05T16:23:32Z phoe: Bike: because I can - "This generic function can be called by users."
2020-07-05T16:23:42Z phoe: and mostly to verify that my custom methods don't break stuff
2020-07-05T16:24:07Z phoe: I ran into an issue where my buggy code cleared out values of slots after calling REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE with no initargs
2020-07-05T16:24:16Z phoe: and that definitely was not my intent
2020-07-05T16:24:20Z Bike: yeah that's definitely wrong at least.
2020-07-05T16:24:34Z Bike: but if you want reinitialize-instance to refresh its place in an external store or something that would probably be okay.
2020-07-05T16:24:36Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:24:46Z phoe: I mean, yes, it *may* be correct in some contexts
2020-07-05T16:25:02Z Bike: since you're the user in this scenario, it can do whatever
2020-07-05T16:25:08Z phoe: yep
2020-07-05T16:25:53Z momozor joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:37:00Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:37:37Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-05T16:37:58Z momozor quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-05T16:38:43Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T16:38:53Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T16:48:14Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T16:48:21Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:06:20Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-05T17:07:41Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T17:14:16Z aeth quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T17:16:05Z aeth joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:21:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T17:21:31Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:23:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:26:50Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T17:28:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:36:41Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T17:37:10Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:40:27Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-05T17:41:49Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:41:56Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T17:44:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T17:45:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:51:01Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-05T17:52:07Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:54:30Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:55:35Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T17:55:50Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T17:55:56Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-05T18:00:51Z catern quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-05T18:01:48Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:02:13Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T18:03:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:05:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T18:05:19Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:07:54Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T18:08:13Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:08:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:08:55Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T18:11:53Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:12:13Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T18:12:49Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T18:18:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T18:18:49Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:18:59Z frgo quit
2020-07-05T18:20:40Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:21:45Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:24:39Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:24:57Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-05T18:26:01Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T18:33:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T18:33:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:34:09Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:41:50Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:44:15Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-05T18:59:45Z _paul0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T19:00:06Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T19:11:54Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T19:14:50Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-05T19:18:10Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-05T19:28:36Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-05T19:33:55Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-05T19:34:51Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-05T19:36:50Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T19:38:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T19:38:11Z pimpom joined #lisp
2020-07-05T19:38:24Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T19:40:20Z drainful quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-05T19:41:09Z pimpom: Can I "expand a list" an pass the contents as input to a function in CL? E.g. I have some function (defun some-fun (arg1 &rest args) ...) and want to pass "args" as several arguments to another function call within this function.
2020-07-05T19:41:20Z Bike: clhs apply
2020-07-05T19:41:20Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm
2020-07-05T19:41:27Z Bike: use that.
2020-07-05T19:44:31Z pimpom: That worked, thanks!
2020-07-05T19:48:49Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T19:56:42Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:01:14Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:04:19Z pimpom quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.90))
2020-07-05T20:08:50Z nabataeus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-05T20:10:38Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:10:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:12:02Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-05T20:14:09Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z epony quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z q-u-a-n22 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z Kaisyu7 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z fouric quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z ntr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z stux|RC quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z null_ptr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z narendraj9 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z dlowe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z vsync quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z drewc quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z idxu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z boeg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:29Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:30Z eMBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:30Z Firedancer_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:14:56Z v88m quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-05T20:15:49Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:18:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:18:49Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:18:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:19:54Z eMBee joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:20:18Z aap joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:23:06Z q-u-a-n2 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:24:19Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:24:29Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:00Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z q-u-a-n22 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z Kaisyu7 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z fouric joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z ntr joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z null_ptr joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z narendraj9 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z dlowe joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z vsync joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z drewc joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z idxu joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z boeg joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z ski joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:02Z Firedancer_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:25:03Z q-u-a-n22 quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2020-07-05T20:25:04Z v88m quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-05T20:27:35Z eMBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:35Z Bourne quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:35Z catern quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:35Z dmiles quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:35Z grewal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z samebchase quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z mgsk_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z srji quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z dvdmuckle quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z sukaeto quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z specbot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z Colleen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z APic quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z karstensrage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z SAL9000 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z shrysr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z seisatsu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z bacterio quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z thijso quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:27:36Z vert2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z eMBee joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z dmiles joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z samebchase joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z mgsk_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z srji joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z dvdmuckle joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z sukaeto joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z Colleen joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z APic joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z karstensrage joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z shrysr joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z seisatsu joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z bacterio joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z thijso joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:29:26Z vert2 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z terpri quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z midre quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z jonatack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z rme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z mpontillo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z nydel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z HDurer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z mgr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z teej quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z jello_pudding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z splittist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z sz0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z jasom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z devrtz_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z xristos quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z neheist2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z avicenna quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z terrorjack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z dnm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z shinohai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z larme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z interruptinuse quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z hydan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z yottabyte quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z lispyone_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z cpt_nemo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z jerme_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z spal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:14Z mbrumlow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:15Z phoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:15Z jackhill quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:15Z kim\ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:15Z eschatologist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:15Z rabuf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:15Z felideon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:15Z CommanderViral quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:15Z hiredman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:27Z insomnyuk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T20:30:52Z cg505 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:52Z xantoz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:52Z tumdum quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:52Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:52Z infra_red[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:52Z simplegauss quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:52Z gjnoonan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:52Z kilimanjaro quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:52Z pent quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:30:52Z stylewarning quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z rme joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z nydel joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z HDurer joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z mgr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z teej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z jello_pudding joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z splittist joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z sz0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z jasom joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z xristos joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z devrtz_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z neheist2 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z avicenna joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z dnm joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z shinohai joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z larme joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z interruptinuse joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z hydan joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z yottabyte joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z lispyone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z jerme_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z spal joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z mbrumlow joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z phoe joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z jackhill joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z kim\ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z rabuf joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z felideon joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z CommanderViral joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:08Z hiredman joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:16Z neheist2 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:31:17Z terrorjack quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:31:17Z teej quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:31:36Z cg505 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:36Z xantoz joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:36Z tumdum joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:36Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:36Z infra_red[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:36Z simplegauss joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:36Z gjnoonan joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:36Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:36Z pent joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:36Z stylewarning joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z dale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z CEnnis91 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z winny quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z yonkunas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z justache quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z chipolux quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z voidlily quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z dxtr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z markasoftware quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z moon-child quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z Grauwolf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:31:49Z knobo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z dale joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z jdz joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z winny joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z yonkunas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z chipolux joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z voidlily joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z dxtr joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z markasoftware joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z moon-child joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z Grauwolf joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:33Z knobo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:32:36Z justache quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z theBlackDragon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z nckx quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z femi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z tessier quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z zymurgy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z jurov quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z ssake quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z azrazalea quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z ft quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z phadthai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z natj212 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z tomaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z xi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z z0d quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z lieven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z esotericalgo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z cosimone quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z mindCrime quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z hdasch quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z stux|RC-only quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z mankaev quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z pve quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z jibanes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:07Z easye quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z Blukunfando quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z lansiir quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z selwyn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z jcowan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z kopiyka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z CrazyEddy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z davsebamse quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z mfiano quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z quazimodo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z hvxgr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z dale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z CEnnis91 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z winny quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z yonkunas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z chipolux quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z voidlily quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z dxtr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z markasoftware quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z moon-child quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z Grauwolf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z knobo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z cg505 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z xantoz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z tumdum quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z infra_red[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z simplegauss quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z gjnoonan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z kilimanjaro quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z pent quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z stylewarning quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z terpri quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z midre quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:08Z jonatack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z rme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z mpontillo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z nydel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z HDurer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z mgr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z jello_pudding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z splittist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z sz0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z jasom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z xristos quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z devrtz_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z avicenna quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z dnm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z shinohai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z larme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z interruptinuse quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z hydan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z yottabyte quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z lispyone_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z cpt_nemo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z jerme_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z spal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z mbrumlow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z phoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z jackhill quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z kim\ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z eschatologist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z rabuf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z felideon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z CommanderViral quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z hiredman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z eMBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z Bourne quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z catern quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z dmiles quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z grewal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z samebchase quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z mgsk_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z srji quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z dvdmuckle quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z sukaeto quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z specbot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:09Z Colleen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z APic quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z karstensrage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z SAL9000 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z shrysr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z seisatsu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z bacterio quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z thijso quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z vert2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z epony quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z Kaisyu7 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z fouric quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z ntr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z null_ptr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z narendraj9 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z dlowe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z vsync quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z drewc quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z idxu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z boeg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z Firedancer_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z _whitelogger quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z random-nick quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z rgherdt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z iarebatman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z bocaneri quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z RukiSama quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:10Z hhdave quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z shymega quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z msk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z doublex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z clothespin_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z liamz[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z madage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z zooey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z cantstanya quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z jeosol quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z MrtnDk[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z camlriot42 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z unl0ckd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z abbe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z q-u-a-n2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z grobe0ba quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z aindilis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z xlei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z penguwin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z MightyJoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z nopf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z cmatei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z d4ryus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z joast quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z adlai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z White_Flame quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z mtd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z Tordek quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z minion quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z r3x5- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:11Z gabiruh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z lad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z fengshaun quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z cracauer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z XachX quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z RagnarDanneskjol quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z astronavt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z [df] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z payphone quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z Gnuxie[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z userself quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z zagura quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z swflint quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z |3b| quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z thonkpod quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z orivej quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z rippa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z jw4 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z X-Scale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z Bike quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z Lord_of_Life quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z Necktwi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z ArthurStrong quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z datajerk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z froggey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z stepnem_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z Lord_Nightmare quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z nullheroes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z scymtym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z grumble quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z Xach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z borodust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z ChoHag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z vidak` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z emacsomancer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z nullman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z DGASAU quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z Posterdati quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z holycow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:12Z PuercoPop quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z nightfly_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z Inoperable quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z Guest9274 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z jxy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z ozzloy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z trn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z c_nix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z rotty quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z sgithens quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z sammich quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z even4void[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z cairn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z physpi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z fowlduck quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z jlpeters quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z vutral quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z gaze__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z saturn2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z SomeB quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z housel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z rvirding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z jhei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z ffwacom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z bitmapper quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z ebrasca quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z OpenZen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z aeth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z gaqwas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z jesse1010 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z ym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z heisig quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z flazh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z vaporatorius quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z zaquest quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z gabot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z nicktick quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:13Z dilated_dinosaur quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z OMGOMG quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z flip214_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z vhost- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z lavaflow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z bonz060 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z niceplace quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z guaqua quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z leo_song quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z Mawile quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z mathrick quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z Khisanth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z spacebat2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z Krystof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z notzmv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z beach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z Jesin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z ech quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z solrize quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z madand quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z kini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z cross quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z gko`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z snits quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z pok quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z jfb4_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z AdmiralBumbleBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z shenghi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z GreaseMonkey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z lowryder quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z trittweiler quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z add^_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z himmAllRight quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z brass quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z heredoc quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:14Z travv0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z katco quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z bytesighs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z chewbranca quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z parisienne___ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z p_l quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z conjunctive quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z mgsk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z lukego quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z billstclair quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z ssd532 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z l1x quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z rumpelszn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z Grue`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z Demosthenex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z paul0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z ark quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z drot_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z gendl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z HiRE quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z Kaisyu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z drmeister quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z tfb quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z Yardanico quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z entel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z jmercouris quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z jsatk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z Balooga quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z banjiewen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z bkst_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z ecraven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z ioa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z creat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z fe[nl]ix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:15Z Blkt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z otwieracz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z sveit quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z beaky quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z gingerale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z Odin- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z SumoSud0- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z chrpape quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z stux|RC quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z gravicappa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z ayuce quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z mrcom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z ult quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z Ekho quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z cybercafe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z Ziemas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z elflng quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z h11 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z nitrix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z Mandus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z Zotan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z rixard quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z eta quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z malm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z eagleflo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z hjudt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z alandipert quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z tazjin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z dim quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z cods quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z mjl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z jbgg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z micro_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z justinmcp quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z kbtr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z cdegroot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z kingcons quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:16Z wigust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z knobo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Grauwolf joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z moon-child joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z markasoftware joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z dxtr joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z voidlily joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z chipolux joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z yonkunas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z winny joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jdz joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z dale joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z stylewarning joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z pent joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z gjnoonan joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z simplegauss joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z infra_red[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z tumdum joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z xantoz joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cg505 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z hiredman joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z CommanderViral joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z felideon joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z rabuf joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z kim\ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jackhill joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z phoe joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mbrumlow joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z spal joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jerme_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z lispyone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z yottabyte joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z hydan joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z interruptinuse joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z larme joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z shinohai joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z dnm joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z avicenna joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z devrtz_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z xristos joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jasom joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z sz0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z splittist joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jello_pudding joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mgr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z HDurer joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z nydel joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z rme joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z vert2 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z thijso joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z bacterio joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z seisatsu joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z shrysr joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z karstensrage joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z APic joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Colleen joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z sukaeto joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z dvdmuckle joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z srji joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mgsk_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z samebchase joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z dmiles joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z eMBee joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Firedancer_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ski joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z boeg joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z idxu joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z drewc joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z vsync joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z dlowe joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z narendraj9 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z null_ptr joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ntr joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z fouric joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Kaisyu7 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z q-u-a-n2 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z aap joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z aeth joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Mawile joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ym joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ArthurStrong joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z iarebatman joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jcowan joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z gabot joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z RukiSama joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z stepnem_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z hhdave joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z borodust joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z shymega joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z lansiir joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z selwyn joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z grobe0ba joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z doublex joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z grumble joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Xach joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ark joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ChoHag joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mfiano joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z vidak` joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z clothespin_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z hvxgr joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z zooey joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Ekho joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ult joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z xlei joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z OMGOMG joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cybercafe joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z penguwin joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z _death joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z spacebat2 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Krystof joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z MightyJoe joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z beach joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z rotty joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z drot_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z flip214_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z niceplace joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z madand joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z nightfly_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jmercouris joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z r3x5- joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z kini joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z copec joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z alandipert joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z gabiruh joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z tazjin joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z parisienne___ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z p_l joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z conjunctive joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mgsk joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z lukego joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z gaze__ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z billstclair joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ssd532 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z l1x joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z saturn2 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z johs joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z guaqua joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z payphone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z [df] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z astronavt joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z RagnarDanneskjol joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z XachX joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cracauer joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z fengshaun joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jsatk joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z thonkpod joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z |3b| joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z swflint joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z zagura joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z c_nix joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z trn joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jxy joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Guest9274 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Inoperable joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ffwacom joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jhei joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z rvirding joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z housel joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z SomeB joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z brass joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z add^_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z trittweiler joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z lowryder joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z GreaseMonkey joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z shenghi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z AdmiralBumbleBee joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jfb4_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z pok joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z snits joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z gko`` joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cross joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z chrpape joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z antoszka joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z SumoSud0- joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Odin- joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z gingerale joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z beaky joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z sveit joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z otwieracz joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Blkt joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z creat joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ioa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ecraven joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z bkst_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Balooga joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Demosthenex joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Grue`` joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z rumpelszn joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z micro_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jbgg joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mjl joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cods joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z dim joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z wigust joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mood joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cdegroot joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z barjavel.freenode.net has set mode +o fe[nl]ix
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z lonjil joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z kbtr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z kingcons joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z femi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z zymurgy joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z tessier joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ck_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jurov joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ssake joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z azrazalea joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z phadthai joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z natj212 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z tomaw joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z xi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z z0d joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z lieven joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z esotericalgo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Tordek joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z hjudt joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z eagleflo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mtd joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z malm joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z White_Flame joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z eta joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z rixard joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Zotan joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Mandus joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z abbe joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z entel joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z solrize joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z nitrix joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z akkad joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z joast joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Yardanico joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z h11 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z bonz060 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z tfb joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z asedeno joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z jlpeters joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z drmeister joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z fowlduck joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z physpi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z bytesighs joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z nckx joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z unl0ckd joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z camlriot42 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z userself joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z MrtnDk[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Gnuxie[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z even4void[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z katco joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z sammich joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z liamz[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z HiRE joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z travv0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z sgithens joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z heredoc joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cmatei joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z vhost- joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z ech joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z gko joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z adlai joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z nopf joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z cantstanya joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:24Z Ziemas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:33:31Z mpontillo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:33:31Z sz0 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:33:31Z yang quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:33:31Z funnel quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:33:59Z funnel joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z q-u-a-n2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z grobe0ba quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z aindilis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z xlei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z penguwin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z MightyJoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z nopf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z cmatei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z d4ryus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z joast quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z adlai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z White_Flame quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z mtd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z Tordek quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z minion quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z r3x5- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z gabiruh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z lad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z fengshaun quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z cracauer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z XachX quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:13Z RagnarDanneskjol quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:14Z astronavt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:14Z [df] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:14Z payphone quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:24Z even4void[m] quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:34:29Z gjnoonan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:34:29Z stylewarning quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:34:47Z pent quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z q-u-a-n2 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z grobe0ba joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z xlei joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z penguwin joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z _death joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z MightyJoe joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z nopf joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z adlai joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z gko joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z cmatei joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z joast joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z White_Flame joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z mtd joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z Tordek joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z r3x5- joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z gabiruh joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z fengshaun joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z cracauer joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z XachX joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z RagnarDanneskjol joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z astronavt joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z [df] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:50Z payphone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z orivej quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z rippa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z jw4 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z X-Scale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z Bike quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z Lord_of_Life quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z Necktwi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z ArthurStrong quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z datajerk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z froggey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z stepnem_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z Lord_Nightmare quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z nullheroes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z scymtym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z grumble quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z Xach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z borodust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z ChoHag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z vidak` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z emacsomancer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z nullman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z DGASAU quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z Posterdati quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z holycow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z PuercoPop quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z nightfly_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z Inoperable quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z Guest9274 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z jxy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z ozzloy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z trn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:54Z c_nix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:34:55Z nopf quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:34:55Z penguwin quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:35:06Z userself quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:35:18Z nopf_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:24Z penguwin joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:34Z rotty quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:34Z sgithens quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z sammich quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z cairn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z physpi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z fowlduck quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z jlpeters quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z vutral quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z gaze__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z saturn2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z SomeB quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z housel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z rvirding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z jhei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:35Z ffwacom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z aap joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z ArthurStrong joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z stepnem_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z borodust joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z grumble joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z Xach joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z ChoHag joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z vidak` joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z nightfly_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z Inoperable joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z Guest9274 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z jxy joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z trn joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:41Z c_nix joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z rotty joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z sgithens joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z sammich joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z physpi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z fowlduck joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z jlpeters joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z copec joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z gaze__ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z saturn2 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z SomeB joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z housel joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z rvirding joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z jhei joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:35:52Z ffwacom joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:36:02Z CEnnis91 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:36:05Z physpi quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z bitmapper quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z ebrasca quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z OpenZen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z aeth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z gaqwas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z jesse1010 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z ym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z heisig quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z flazh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z vaporatorius quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z zaquest quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z gabot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:10Z nicktick quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:11Z dilated_dinosaur quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:11Z OMGOMG quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:11Z flip214_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:11Z vhost- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:11Z lavaflow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:11Z bonz060 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:11Z niceplace quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:11Z guaqua quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:11Z leo_song quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:36:36Z X-Scale quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:36:36Z emacsomancer quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:36:41Z katco quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:36:41Z ssd532 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:36:47Z unl0ckd quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:36:51Z sammich quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:37:06Z teej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z aeth joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z ym joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z gabot joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z OMGOMG joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z flip214_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z vhost- joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z bonz060 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z niceplace joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z guaqua joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:23Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:27Z kilimanjaro quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:37:30Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z Mawile quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z mathrick quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z Khisanth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z spacebat2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z Krystof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z notzmv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z beach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z Jesin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z ech quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z solrize quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z madand quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z kini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z cross quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z gko`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z snits quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z pok quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z jfb4_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z AdmiralBumbleBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z shenghi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z GreaseMonkey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z lowryder quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z trittweiler quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z add^_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z himmAllRight quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:39Z brass quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:37:47Z infra_red[m] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:37:49Z MrtnDk[m] quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:37:49Z camlriot42 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:38:02Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z teej quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z heredoc quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z travv0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z bytesighs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z chewbranca quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z parisienne___ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z p_l quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z conjunctive quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z mgsk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z lukego quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z billstclair quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z l1x quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z rumpelszn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z Grue`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:06Z Demosthenex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:13Z tazjin quit (Quit: Updating details, brb)
2020-07-05T20:38:15Z jlpeters quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z Mawile joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z spacebat2 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z Krystof joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z beach joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z ech joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z solrize joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z madand joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z kini joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z cross joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z gko`` joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z snits joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z pok joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z jfb4_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z AdmiralBumbleBee joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z shenghi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z GreaseMonkey joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z lowryder joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z trittweiler joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z add^_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:19Z brass joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z teej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z heredoc joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z travv0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z bytesighs joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z akkad joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z parisienne___ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z p_l joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z conjunctive joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z mgsk joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z lukego joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z billstclair joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z l1x joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z rumpelszn joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z Grue`` joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:32Z Demosthenex joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:35Z fowlduck quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:38:36Z gaze__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:38:36Z teej quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:38:39Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:46Z jesse1010 quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-05T20:38:47Z heisig quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T20:38:47Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T20:38:50Z _heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:53Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:53Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-05T20:38:53Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:38:54Z stux|RC quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:54Z gravicappa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:54Z ayuce quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:54Z mrcom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:54Z ult quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:54Z Ekho quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:54Z cybercafe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:54Z Ziemas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:54Z elflng quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z h11 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z nitrix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z Mandus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z Zotan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z rixard quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z eta quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z malm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z eagleflo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z hjudt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z alandipert quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z dim quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z cods quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z mjl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z jbgg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z micro_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:55Z justinmcp quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:38:56Z cross quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:38:57Z rvirding quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:39:02Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:10Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:11Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-05T20:39:23Z yang joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:25Z tazjin joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:27Z paul0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:27Z ark quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:27Z drot_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:27Z gendl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:27Z HiRE quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:27Z Kaisyu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:27Z drmeister quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:27Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:27Z tfb quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:27Z Yardanico quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z entel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z jmercouris quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z jsatk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z Balooga quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z banjiewen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z bkst_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z ecraven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z ioa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z creat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z fe[nl]ix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z Blkt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z otwieracz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z sveit quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z beaky quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z gingerale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z Odin- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z SumoSud0- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:28Z chrpape quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:39:33Z ssd532 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:39Z jhei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z Ekho joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z ult joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z cybercafe joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z Ziemas joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z h11 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z nitrix joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z Mandus joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z Zotan joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z rixard joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z eta joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z malm joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z eagleflo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z hjudt joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z alandipert joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z dim joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z cods joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z mjl joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z jbgg joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z micro_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:40Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:39:49Z Ekho quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:39:49Z stux|RC quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:40:18Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:40:20Z cairn quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-05T20:40:21Z liamz[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T20:40:21Z Gnuxie[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z ark joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z drot_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z HiRE joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z drmeister joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z asedeno joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z tfb joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z Yardanico joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z entel joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z jmercouris joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:28Z johs joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z jsatk joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z Balooga joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z bkst_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z ecraven joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z ioa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z creat joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z Blkt joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z otwieracz joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z sveit joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z beaky joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z gingerale joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z Odin- joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z SumoSud0- joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z antoszka joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z chrpape joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:29Z barjavel.freenode.net has set mode +o fe[nl]ix
2020-07-05T20:40:32Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:39Z kbtr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:40:39Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:40:39Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:40:39Z cdegroot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:40:39Z kingcons quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:40:39Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:40:39Z wigust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:40:41Z vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:40:47Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:47Z kingcons joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:47Z kbtr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:47Z lonjil joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:47Z cdegroot joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:47Z mood joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:47Z wigust joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:40:49Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:40:49Z bytesighs quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:40:49Z conjunctive quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:41:20Z parisienne___ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:41:20Z lukego quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:41:28Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:41:30Z zagura quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:41:30Z swflint quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:41:30Z |3b| quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:41:30Z thonkpod quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:41:30Z teej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:41:38Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:41:47Z paul0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T20:41:51Z chewbranca quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:41:57Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:41:58Z zagura joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:41:58Z swflint joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:41:58Z |3b| joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:41:58Z thonkpod joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:03Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:21Z Kaisyu quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:42:21Z johs quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:42:22Z p_l quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z theBlackDragon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z nckx quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z femi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z tessier quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z zymurgy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z jurov quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z ssake quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z azrazalea quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z ft quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z phadthai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z natj212 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z tomaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z xi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z z0d quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z lieven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:23Z esotericalgo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:42:28Z jhei joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:28Z rvirding joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:38Z jhei quit (Changing host)
2020-07-05T20:42:38Z jhei joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z nckx joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z femi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z zymurgy joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z tessier joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z ck_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z jurov joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z ssake joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z azrazalea joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z phadthai joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z natj212 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z tomaw joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z xi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z z0d joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z lieven joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:39Z esotericalgo joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:46Z travv0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:42:46Z zymurgy quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:42:52Z Ekho- joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:43:15Z travv0 quit (Changing host)
2020-07-05T20:43:15Z travv0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:43:20Z cross joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:43:29Z gaze__ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:43:30Z stylewarning joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:43:38Z gaze__ quit (Changing host)
2020-07-05T20:43:38Z gaze__ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:43:39Z stylewarning quit (Changing host)
2020-07-05T20:43:39Z stylewarning joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:43:42Z bytesighs joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:43:55Z zymurgy joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:44:15Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 274 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:44:31Z jlpeters joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:44:47Z physpi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:44:47Z gjnoonan joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:44:53Z jsatk quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:45:01Z billstclair joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:45:06Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:45:29Z lukego joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:45:48Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:45:50Z pent joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:45:50Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:46:47Z drmeister quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:46:50Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:47:05Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:47:17Z parisienne___ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:47:19Z even4void[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:47:24Z conjunctive joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:47:25Z entel quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:47:27Z p_l joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:47:34Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:47:34Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:47:54Z entel joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:48:40Z jsatk joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:48:43Z teej is now known as teej_
2020-07-05T20:48:52Z _heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-05T20:49:11Z fowlduck joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:49:19Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z orivej quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z rippa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z jw4 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z Bike quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z Lord_of_Life quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z Necktwi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z ArthurStrong quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z datajerk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z froggey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z stepnem_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z nullheroes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z scymtym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z grumble quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z Xach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z borodust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z ChoHag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z vidak` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z nullman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z DGASAU quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z Posterdati quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z holycow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z PuercoPop quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z nightfly_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z Inoperable quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z Guest9274 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z jxy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z ozzloy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z trn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:49:20Z c_nix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z aap joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z ArthurStrong joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z stepnem_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z borodust joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z grumble joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z Xach joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z ChoHag joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z vidak` joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z nightfly_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z Inoperable joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z Guest9274 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z jxy joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z trn joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:11Z c_nix joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:33Z johs joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:50:37Z drmeister joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:51:00Z Lord_of_Life quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-05T20:51:58Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:53:33Z sz0 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:53:54Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:54:54Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-05T20:56:52Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T20:59:08Z rogersm quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-05T21:02:52Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:04:55Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-05T21:05:44Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:05:55Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:06:18Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:09:11Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:09:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T21:09:52Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T21:13:04Z knuckles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-05T21:13:22Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T21:13:54Z MrtnDk[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:13:54Z deselby joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:13:54Z Gnuxie[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:13:55Z unl0ckd joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:13:55Z camlriot42 joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:13:55Z infra_red[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:13:55Z katco joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:13:55Z sammich joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:13:55Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:13:55Z userself joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:14:02Z fountainpen[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:14:02Z liamz[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:14:25Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:21:58Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-05T21:31:28Z Ekho- is now known as Ekho
2020-07-05T21:35:24Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T21:37:06Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T21:37:14Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:38:54Z Inline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T21:41:10Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-05T21:47:45Z phoe: What is the easiest way to define two packages that cross-reference each other via local nicknames?
2020-07-05T21:51:48Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T21:52:51Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T21:58:22Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-05T21:59:29Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:04:35Z holycow quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-05T22:10:21Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:11:04Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:12:52Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-05T22:16:10Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:20:13Z Bike: phoe: with sbcl's interface, call add-package-local-nickname for one, i guess. gets annoying if you also want to be able to reeevaluate defpackage forms without complaint, tho
2020-07-05T22:21:25Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:21:31Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:22:11Z phoe: Bike: I got UIOP:DEFINE-PACKAGE for all my reevaluation needs
2020-07-05T22:29:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-05T22:30:33Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:31:02Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:32:10Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:34:48Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T22:34:59Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-05T22:37:32Z jcowan left #lisp
2020-07-05T22:43:27Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T22:44:26Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T22:44:37Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:44:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-05T22:44:44Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:47:33Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-05T22:54:23Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-05T22:54:38Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T22:54:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:02:36Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-05T23:03:28Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T23:07:32Z bocaneri is now known as Sauvin
2020-07-05T23:08:12Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:12:23Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-05T23:17:09Z PuercoPop quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2020-07-05T23:20:27Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-05T23:22:24Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T23:22:26Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:23:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:23:32Z philadendrite joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:25:52Z carleos joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:34:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T23:35:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:35:51Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:36:01Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:36:05Z userone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-05T23:36:21Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:38:01Z holycow_ joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:39:21Z holycow quit (Disconnected by services)
2020-07-05T23:39:28Z holycow_ is now known as holycow
2020-07-05T23:39:50Z holycow quit (Changing host)
2020-07-05T23:39:50Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:41:17Z libertyprime quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-05T23:45:43Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-05T23:46:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-05T23:56:24Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-05T23:56:37Z Jeanne-Kamikaze joined #lisp
2020-07-06T00:12:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T00:13:16Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T00:13:33Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T00:14:39Z aeth: phoe: Thanks for your input earlier. I fixed the two issues you spotted and I'm going to think about how to approach the typecheck soon.
2020-07-06T00:16:22Z aeth: I'm not sure if I'll do that right away or if I'll do some graphics stuff first. I haven't done any graphics in a while and I'm thinking of some simple (3D, but effectively behaving the same as isometric) tiles.
2020-07-06T00:19:03Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T00:21:12Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T00:22:03Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-06T00:23:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T00:23:19Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-06T00:25:20Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T00:28:51Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-06T00:34:39Z jeosol quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-06T00:44:34Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T00:44:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T00:52:22Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-06T00:59:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T01:00:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:04:40Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T01:07:01Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:07:41Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:10:25Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:15:26Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:18:12Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T01:22:38Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T01:23:06Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T01:23:35Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:26:04Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-06T01:28:11Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:32:04Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:36:42Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T01:36:49Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T01:37:52Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T01:42:41Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:50:20Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-06T01:54:16Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:54:40Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:54:45Z ldb: helo
2020-07-06T01:55:51Z GuerrillaMonkey joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:57:36Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-06T01:57:40Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T01:58:13Z Jeanne-Kamikaze quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T02:00:13Z philadendrite quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T02:10:47Z ldb quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-06T02:11:42Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-06T02:12:17Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-06T02:13:00Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-06T02:23:29Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-06T02:26:55Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T02:33:57Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-06T02:45:16Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T02:51:44Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-06T02:58:26Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-06T03:00:58Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-06T03:05:22Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-06T03:08:47Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-06T03:14:37Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-06T03:17:28Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-06T03:32:34Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-06T03:35:37Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-06T03:47:37Z justache quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-07-06T03:49:33Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-06T04:05:10Z justache quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-07-06T04:05:47Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T04:06:37Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-06T04:08:22Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-06T04:08:36Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-06T04:10:24Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-06T04:14:17Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T04:14:24Z justache quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-07-06T04:16:38Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-06T04:18:25Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-06T04:26:33Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-06T04:28:01Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T04:35:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T04:36:19Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-06T04:37:05Z GuerrillaMonkey quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-06T04:43:26Z datajerk quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-06T04:45:54Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:05:09Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:13:25Z karlosz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T05:13:45Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:31:05Z iarebatman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T05:32:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T05:32:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:35:34Z ErichHyuuga joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:36:32Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:36:40Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:37:16Z madrik joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:38:12Z madrik: If certain keyword arguments are accepted only by one Lisp and not another, how should I write the feature conditionals?
2020-07-06T05:39:21Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:41:15Z ErichHyuuga: hey guys
2020-07-06T05:41:15Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T05:42:43Z beach: Hello ErichHyuuga.
2020-07-06T05:42:56Z ErichHyuuga: Eat my diarrhea
2020-07-06T05:42:57Z ErichHyuuga: Just...
2020-07-06T05:42:58Z ErichHyuuga: Just ate a burger at the sleazy joint
2020-07-06T05:43:00Z ErichHyuuga: Now I gotta take a shit, get to the point
2020-07-06T05:43:03Z ErichHyuuga: Sittin' on the toilet, my ass is a blast
2020-07-06T05:43:05Z ErichHyuuga: Runnin' smelly diarrhea outta my ass
2020-07-06T05:43:09Z ErichHyuuga: No f*ckin' paper
2020-07-06T05:43:11Z ErichHyuuga: Hey baby lick my ass 'til your face turns blue
2020-07-06T05:43:13Z ErichHyuuga: You're finished rimmin' me and you want some more
2020-07-06T05:43:15Z ErichHyuuga: Ya say ya don't flush but your out the door
2020-07-06T05:43:17Z ErichHyuuga: I'm back in the...with a cup
2020-07-06T05:43:19Z ErichHyuuga: Scoop it outta the toilet 'cause you wanna slurp it up
2020-07-06T05:43:21Z ErichHyuuga: Eat my diarrhea you're chuggin' it down
2020-07-06T05:43:23Z ErichHyuuga: You're suckin' my ass and your lips are all brown
2020-07-06T05:43:25Z ErichHyuuga: Since we've gone back to the hamburger place
2020-07-06T05:43:28Z ErichHyuuga: I'm gonna stick my ass right on your face
2020-07-06T05:43:29Z ErichHyuuga: I'm gonna shit in your mouth
2020-07-06T05:43:33Z ErichHyuuga: I'm gonna shit in your face, your mouth
2020-07-06T05:43:36Z ErichHyuuga: And I wanna shit on your mother
2020-07-06T05:43:37Z ErichHyuuga: I'm gonna shit on you and your mother
2020-07-06T05:43:40Z ErichHyuuga: Diarrhea
2020-07-06T05:43:42Z ErichHyuuga: I gotta take a shit
2020-07-06T05:43:43Z ErichHyuuga: Gotta bottle a Ex-Lax, gonna take it
2020-07-06T05:43:45Z ErichHyuuga: I'm gonna take me a lumpy shit
2020-07-06T05:43:47Z ErichHyuuga: Gonna throw it at you, I hope I hit you
2020-07-06T05:43:51Z ErichHyuuga: I hope it splats in your face there too
2020-07-06T05:43:52Z ErichHyuuga: It's comin' out my ass all drippin' wet
2020-07-06T05:43:53Z ErichHyuuga: It's comin' out my ass all drippin' wet
2020-07-06T05:43:53Z beach: madrik: That depends a lot.
2020-07-06T05:43:55Z ErichHyuuga: I want you to suck up all of it
2020-07-06T05:43:57Z ErichHyuuga: Lick my ass and eat it too
2020-07-06T05:43:59Z ErichHyuuga: Cause diarrhea is good for you
2020-07-06T05:44:03Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:44:03Z ErichHyuuga: Ya eat it, eat it, eat
2020-07-06T05:44:05Z ErichHyuuga: Eat it, eat it, eat
2020-07-06T05:44:08Z ErichHyuuga: Diarrhea
2020-07-06T05:44:09Z ErichHyuuga: Eat my f*ckin' shit
2020-07-06T05:44:37Z beach: madrik: It depends on whether different implementations require the argument, or whether it is optional.
2020-07-06T05:44:50Z carleos quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T05:45:27Z ErichHyuuga quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T05:46:39Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:47:04Z madrik: beach: E.g. CCL has a :SHARING keyword argument for WITH-OPEN-FILE, which takes one of three values.
2020-07-06T05:47:34Z madrik: Right now, I have this:   #+ccl :sharing #+ccl :external
2020-07-06T05:47:55Z beach: I don't think you can do better.
2020-07-06T05:48:05Z madrik: Okay, thanks.
2020-07-06T05:48:22Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:49:06Z beach: If they are the last ones, you might get away with something like (bla bla . #ccl (:sharing :external)).
2020-07-06T05:49:16Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T05:49:23Z beach: Nah, that won't work.
2020-07-06T05:50:12Z beach: It would have to be #+ccl (:sharing :external) #-ccl '()
2020-07-06T05:50:21Z beach: You get the picture.  Not an improvement.
2020-07-06T05:50:34Z madrik: Yes.
2020-07-06T05:50:51Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T05:53:50Z JohnMS_WORK joined #lisp
2020-07-06T05:56:43Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T06:05:06Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T06:09:22Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T06:12:01Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T06:12:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T06:16:04Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T06:16:17Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-06T06:17:09Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T06:19:40Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T06:21:42Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-06T06:24:19Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T06:24:39Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-06T06:26:26Z mindCrime quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-06T06:27:50Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T06:30:31Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T06:33:41Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-06T06:37:39Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-06T06:48:57Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-06T07:14:47Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-06T07:14:47Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-06T07:14:47Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-06T07:17:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T07:17:56Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T07:23:04Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-06T07:25:46Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T07:38:57Z freshpassport quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-07-06T07:41:40Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T07:44:26Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-06T07:44:26Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-06T07:44:26Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-06T07:46:41Z madrik quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T07:46:49Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T07:48:38Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-06T07:50:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-06T07:50:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T07:58:37Z stoneglass joined #lisp
2020-07-06T07:59:57Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:01:01Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:01:25Z matzy_: can you connect mito to a remote database, like one on RDS?  I tried passing :host and :port to mito:connect-toplevel but I think that's where my error is coming from
2020-07-06T08:01:33Z joels: Hello all
2020-07-06T08:04:40Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:05:45Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:07:02Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:07:20Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T08:08:15Z beach: Hello joels.
2020-07-06T08:13:55Z matzy_: nvm i'm stupid
2020-07-06T08:17:25Z vms14 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:17:32Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:17:45Z vms14: how can I implement the qw function of perl in lisp?
2020-07-06T08:18:00Z Harag:  I am working my way through left over lambda, tyring the code of
2020-07-06T08:18:00Z Harag: 	(defmacro/g! nif ...) I get undefined variable g!result. Is there
2020-07-06T08:18:00Z Harag: 	something wrong with the code of defmacro/g! in then online version of
2020-07-06T08:18:00Z Harag: 	the book or am I doing something wrong?
2020-07-06T08:18:10Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:18:12Z tich joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:18:14Z vms14: I want something like (qw there are strings there)
2020-07-06T08:18:15Z Harag: eish sorry about that broken post
2020-07-06T08:18:34Z beach: vms14: It is much better if you tell people what you want it to do, rather than assuming people know Perl.
2020-07-06T08:18:35Z vms14: and being converted to ("there" "are" "strings" "there")
2020-07-06T08:18:45Z vms14: beach: I was doing that
2020-07-06T08:19:05Z beach: vms14: Well, first of all, qw can't be written as a function.
2020-07-06T08:19:21Z vms14: the thing is, if I make a macro, and convert symbols to strings, the print case won't let me have mixed case,not?
2020-07-06T08:19:21Z beach: Because functions evaluate their arguments, and you apparently don't want that.
2020-07-06T08:19:30Z rogersm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T08:19:43Z vms14: I only see in *print-case* :downcase :capitalize and :upcase
2020-07-06T08:20:00Z beach: Well, if you use default reader settings, then it is already too late by the time the symbol is being read.
2020-07-06T08:20:11Z vms14: then it has to be a reader macro?
2020-07-06T08:20:30Z vms14: seems the way, thanks
2020-07-06T08:20:52Z beach: It is going to be hard to keep that syntax in a reader macro.
2020-07-06T08:21:01Z vms14: then what I should aim at?
2020-07-06T08:21:38Z beach: In my opinion, you should forget about imitating the surface syntax of a language with a surface syntax that is as different from that of Common Lisp as this one seems to be.
2020-07-06T08:21:58Z beach: Or else, if Perl syntax is what you want, then don't use READ.
2020-07-06T08:22:08Z beach: Write a parser for Perl instead.
2020-07-06T08:22:25Z vms14: I just want a function/macro that turns symbols to strings
2020-07-06T08:22:38Z beach: Oh, that one is easy.
2020-07-06T08:22:39Z vms14: but, without touching the case
2020-07-06T08:22:46Z beach: That one is easy too.
2020-07-06T08:22:52Z jackdaniel: how about (string 'foo) ;?
2020-07-06T08:23:17Z beach: vms14: symbol-name does not touch the case.
2020-07-06T08:23:24Z vms14: oh, thanks
2020-07-06T08:23:39Z beach: vms14: Try (symbol-name '|aBcD|) for instance.
2020-07-06T08:24:14Z vms14: but they'll have to be between || ?
2020-07-06T08:24:17Z phoe: yes
2020-07-06T08:24:26Z phoe: it's the reader itself that upcases or downcases symbols
2020-07-06T08:24:37Z phoe: so you'll need a reader macro for that
2020-07-06T08:24:43Z vms14: thanks phoe
2020-07-06T08:24:53Z vms14: I'll try with a reader macro then
2020-07-06T08:24:58Z beach: phoe: But then vms14 can't easily write (qw ....).
2020-07-06T08:24:59Z vms14: also an excuse to learn
2020-07-06T08:25:15Z flip214_: vms14: It might look like #q(...)
2020-07-06T08:25:15Z vms14: but the reason is to not type "" for every string
2020-07-06T08:25:28Z phoe: beach: it's impossible to write that either way without a custom reader
2020-07-06T08:25:31Z vms14: if I have to use || it's almost the same
2020-07-06T08:25:41Z phoe: by the time macroexpansion happens all the symbols are already upcased
2020-07-06T08:25:59Z beach: vms14: I think it is a really bad idea to do what you seem to want.
2020-07-06T08:26:07Z phoe: vms14: if you need to use a reader macro it'll look like #{Hello world}
2020-07-06T08:26:13Z phoe: which is also almost the same
2020-07-06T08:26:31Z phoe: (mostly because || and "" are reader macros under the hood, too)
2020-07-06T08:26:36Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:26:47Z vms14: didn't know "" was a reader macro
2020-07-06T08:26:49Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T08:26:51Z Cymew joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:27:03Z phoe: hey, so are the parentheses
2020-07-06T08:27:08Z vms14: :O
2020-07-06T08:27:09Z phoe: and so is the quotation mark
2020-07-06T08:27:24Z beach: clhs "
2020-07-06T08:27:24Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_de.htm
2020-07-06T08:27:25Z phoe: it's really turtles all the way down, until you hit the GC
2020-07-06T08:27:36Z vms14: the quotation mark, yes, just syntax sugar for (quote)
2020-07-06T08:27:44Z flip214_: vms14: when I came over from Perl, I tried to make CL more similar to Perl, too.
2020-07-06T08:28:01Z vms14: flip214_: and what did you achieve?
2020-07-06T08:28:05Z phoe: vms14: parentheses are just syntax sugar for READ-DELIMITED-LIST
2020-07-06T08:28:31Z flip214_: After some more practice I found out that most of that stuff isn't necessary ... CL-PPCRE:SCAN is a bit longer than /../, but it gives more results back anyway
2020-07-06T08:28:54Z flip214_: so I got around to like the verbose Lisp way -- it's more readable over the long run anyway
2020-07-06T08:28:58Z vms14: I'm actually mixing perl and lisp by using sockets and perl eval XD
2020-07-06T08:29:24Z vms14: in netbsd I have some troubles, like no threads in sbcl, and most of libraries won't work
2020-07-06T08:29:32Z vms14: so perl will be the lisp libraries
2020-07-06T08:29:51Z vms14: actually using sdl from perl, and wanting to do the logic in lisp
2020-07-06T08:31:04Z flip214_: why not embrace lisp symbols, and just serialize them as strings to perl?
2020-07-06T08:31:12Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-06T08:31:36Z flip214_: I did a reader macro that kept case for me; then I could write §MixedCase-Symbol or §(Mixed List)
2020-07-06T08:31:53Z flip214_: I needed that for JSON serialization (right case for keys)
2020-07-06T08:31:53Z vms14: just wanted to have the qw function in lisp
2020-07-06T08:32:16Z phoe: can't do that without a reader macro
2020-07-06T08:32:22Z vms14: yeah, I'll try
2020-07-06T08:32:30Z vms14: thanks phoe
2020-07-06T08:33:02Z phoe: I assume you could do stuff like #{foo bar baz QuUx} that evaluates to ("foo" "bar" "baz" "QuUx")
2020-07-06T08:34:45Z vms14: that's what I want
2020-07-06T08:35:17Z phoe: totally doable with a reader macro then
2020-07-06T08:36:07Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:38:28Z beach: vms14: According to what you said, that is NOT what you want.  You said you wanted to be able to write (qw ...).
2020-07-06T08:38:49Z vms14: yes, but the only way seems to be a reader macro
2020-07-06T08:38:57Z vms14: so qw{} it's kinda fine
2020-07-06T08:39:00Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T08:39:01Z vms14: or alike
2020-07-06T08:39:13Z vms14: and even more alike to perl
2020-07-06T08:39:30Z beach: vms14: It is mystery to me why that particular reader macro is acceptable, but (qw ".." "...") is not.
2020-07-06T08:39:52Z vms14: cause the reason is I'm lazy to put ""
2020-07-06T08:39:54Z vms14: xd
2020-07-06T08:40:22Z vms14: and it's a nice excuse to learn how to make a reader macro, which always wanted to do
2020-07-06T08:40:30Z beach: Good luck!
2020-07-06T08:40:36Z vms14: thanks :D
2020-07-06T08:40:51Z JohnMS_WORK quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T08:44:11Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-06T08:45:18Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:45:31Z JohnMS_WORK joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:52:16Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:54:04Z phoe: huh
2020-07-06T08:54:09Z phoe: where is the bug in this code? https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1943#1943
2020-07-06T08:54:27Z phoe: when copypasted to a REPL, it works fine in terminal but hangs in SLIME
2020-07-06T08:55:07Z phoe: vms14: also qw{} will not work
2020-07-06T08:55:25Z phoe: QW will get interpreted as a symbol
2020-07-06T08:55:33Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-06T08:56:31Z vms14: atm is just {}
2020-07-06T08:56:37Z phoe: OK, that will work
2020-07-06T08:56:41Z vms14: but i have to learn how reader macros work
2020-07-06T08:56:51Z phoe: vms14: https://gist.github.com/chaitanyagupta/9324402
2020-07-06T08:57:06Z pve: phoe: are you sure the arguments to qw-reader should be like that? Wasn't it (stream character number)?
2020-07-06T08:57:35Z phoe: pve: oh right
2020-07-06T08:57:43Z Harag: when using flatten in a macro it returns stuff like ,G!RESULT as sb-impl:comma and should I be seening that or getting G!RESULT as a a symbol?
2020-07-06T08:57:54Z phoe: Harag: see the errata for LoL
2020-07-06T08:58:04Z Harag: ok thanx
2020-07-06T08:58:38Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T08:58:50Z phoe: pve: you fixed it! thank you
2020-07-06T08:58:55Z pve: great
2020-07-06T08:59:18Z phoe: vms14: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1943#1943
2020-07-06T08:59:43Z vms14: xD I was looking that, you made it for me
2020-07-06T08:59:44Z vms14: <3
2020-07-06T09:00:26Z phoe: just an exercise to ensure that I know how to write dispatch reader macros (hint: I obviously don't fully know, as you can see above)
2020-07-06T09:00:43Z phoe: feel free to read it and then try to write it yourself based on the article I posted - it's a good one
2020-07-06T09:00:57Z vms14: thanks man
2020-07-06T09:01:00Z phoe: pve: thanks for the assist
2020-07-06T09:01:14Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-06T09:01:18Z pve: np
2020-07-06T09:07:02Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T09:12:04Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T09:12:20Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-06T09:12:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-06T09:12:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T09:22:29Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-06T09:22:55Z vms14: phoe https://termbin.com/bf4l
2020-07-06T09:22:58Z vms14: that's my version
2020-07-06T09:23:03Z vms14: it adds a function
2020-07-06T09:23:14Z vms14: {function string1 string2 string3...}
2020-07-06T09:23:41Z vms14: thanks phoe, I wouldn't make it if you weren't helping me
2020-07-06T09:24:32Z phoe: you don't want that last line
2020-07-06T09:24:47Z vms14: it gives me error then
2020-07-06T09:24:51Z phoe: first of all, it's an argument count mismatch, since the function must accept two arguments
2020-07-06T09:25:06Z phoe: second, it should signal an error, since a lone closing delimiter is a programmer error
2020-07-06T09:25:20Z vms14: but it fails if I put {something more}
2020-07-06T09:25:30Z vms14: only works if there is a space at the end
2020-07-06T09:25:35Z vms14: like {something more }
2020-07-06T09:25:43Z phoe: shouldn't
2020-07-06T09:25:45Z vms14: if I put the last line, it works
2020-07-06T09:25:52Z beach: Set the syntax of } to be that of )
2020-07-06T09:25:59Z phoe: yes, but not because of the reason you are thinking
2020-07-06T09:26:04Z phoe: SET-MACRO-CHARACTER will cause #\} to be a terminating macro character
2020-07-06T09:26:23Z phoe: where "terminating" means that the reader will not include it as a part of tokens
2020-07-06T09:26:42Z phoe: so (set-macro-character #\} (lambda (c s) (declare (ignore c s)) (error "Lone closing delimiter))) or what beach said
2020-07-06T09:27:04Z phoe: ...more or less, I'm missing a closing doublequote
2020-07-06T09:27:17Z vms14: then something is wrong I guess
2020-07-06T09:27:32Z vms14: cause I had this error when I don't put a space at the end
2020-07-06T09:27:51Z vms14: I'll restart slime and see what it does now
2020-07-06T09:28:01Z vms14: maybe it was a mistake that I've done before
2020-07-06T09:28:13Z phoe: you most likely got that because #\} was not a terminating macro character
2020-07-06T09:28:23Z phoe: that's why it's important to set it to be a terminating macro character
2020-07-06T09:30:00Z beach: phoe: Are you sure your technique is portable?
2020-07-06T09:30:33Z phoe: beach: what do you mean?
2020-07-06T09:30:33Z beach: As I recall, in Eclector, we actually have a valid action associated with #\).
2020-07-06T09:31:03Z beach: So (again, as I recall), READ-DELIMITED-LIST doesn't actually consume the #\).
2020-07-06T09:31:14Z phoe: it does
2020-07-06T09:31:20Z phoe: "If it is char, then the character is consumed and the list of objects is returned."
2020-07-06T09:31:27Z phoe: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_del.htm
2020-07-06T09:31:52Z beach: Ah, I see.  Thanks.
2020-07-06T09:31:52Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-06T09:32:32Z phoe: if I understand the reader algorithm correctly, parsing the delimiter is actually the duty of the reading function
2020-07-06T09:32:49Z phoe: that's why the delimiter alone is allowed to just error if it's encountered
2020-07-06T09:32:56Z beach: Maybe so.  It has been a long time since I worked on the reader.
2020-07-06T09:32:58Z phoe: and R-D-L behaves just like that
2020-07-06T09:33:19Z beach: phoe: You know a lot of Common Lisp now!  Congratulations!
2020-07-06T09:33:49Z beach: That's why I would like you to work on SICL. :)
2020-07-06T09:35:33Z vms14: the sad part is now that it works, it won't serve for my original purpose xD
2020-07-06T09:35:58Z phoe: vms14: what was the original purpose
2020-07-06T09:36:08Z vms14: I have a function named modules that takes a list of arguments and makes perl load those modules
2020-07-06T09:36:18Z vms14: the sad part is modules in perl are in This::Form
2020-07-06T09:36:31Z vms14: and that makes lisp think I want to refer to a package xd
2020-07-06T09:36:42Z vms14: so I need to put "" anyways
2020-07-06T09:36:50Z phoe: nah
2020-07-06T09:36:53Z vms14: but it was nice to make a reader macro and understand them a bit better
2020-07-06T09:36:54Z phoe: modify your reader macro some more
2020-07-06T09:37:05Z beach: Or use Eclector.
2020-07-06T09:37:08Z phoe: ^
2020-07-06T09:37:17Z beach: It lets you configure the interpretation of tokens.
2020-07-06T09:37:41Z jackdaniel: or use esrap if it is only about parsing code
2020-07-06T09:37:54Z beach: It is high time to stamp out implementation-specific readers anyway.
2020-07-06T09:37:59Z vms14: then I have to change the read-delimited-list and read it manually?
2020-07-06T09:38:16Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-06T09:38:41Z jackdaniel: https://scymtym.github.io/esrap/
2020-07-06T09:39:19Z matzy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T09:39:54Z phoe: vms14: yes
2020-07-06T09:39:59Z phoe: mostly because READ will attempt to read symbols
2020-07-06T09:40:04Z phoe: and that will badly break
2020-07-06T09:41:01Z phoe: inside a loop with WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING, read-chars until you read whitespace
2020-07-06T09:41:08Z phoe: collect the list of strings until you hit #\}
2020-07-06T09:41:13Z phoe: at which point, return it
2020-07-06T09:41:30Z phoe: it's literally a function that works on a Lisp stream and pops chars from it
2020-07-06T09:46:38Z Cymew joined #lisp
2020-07-06T09:48:07Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T09:48:53Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-06T09:51:45Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-06T09:51:58Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T09:54:04Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-06T09:55:43Z vms14: I'll try later
2020-07-06T09:55:50Z vms14: see you guys, and thanks for the help
2020-07-06T09:56:06Z vms14 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T09:58:25Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T09:58:43Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-06T10:12:11Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-06T10:15:49Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T10:27:16Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-06T10:27:25Z fbmnds joined #lisp
2020-07-06T10:27:42Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T10:29:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-06T10:30:26Z fbmnds: I was advised to repeat my 'post' from Saturday on a working day
2020-07-06T10:30:34Z fbmnds: hence: I'd like to know whether there is interest in this community to dig into EQL5 in essence to be able to further maintain this project. From what I understood going through the code base, EQL5 is based on witty design ideas and allows for cross platform GUI development (the examples apps work nice on my Android mobile, too - iOS is also
2020-07-06T10:30:35Z fbmnds: supported).
2020-07-06T10:32:40Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T10:35:07Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-06T10:35:30Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-06T10:36:27Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-06T10:36:33Z phoe: fbmnds: I'd certainly be interested if it becomes cross-implementation in result
2020-07-06T10:36:34Z flip214_: minion: memo for vms14: If you have your own reader macro, you could also make #\: a constituent character within this list... then you could (READ-DELIMITED-LIST) in your own *PACKAGE* and get symbols like |This::Form|
2020-07-06T10:36:34Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell vms14 when he/she/it next speaks.
2020-07-06T10:37:02Z phoe: flip214_: is that portable?
2020-07-06T10:37:14Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-06T10:37:43Z flip214_: phoe: I guess that within your own readtable a COPY-SYNTAX from #\x to #\: should be conforming?!
2020-07-06T10:37:49Z phoe: ;; Online Lisp Meeting #4 starting in 22 minutes at https://www.twitch.tv/TwitchPlaysCommonLisp ;;
2020-07-06T10:38:14Z phoe: flip214_: the issue is that #\: has a NIL character macro function on my machine
2020-07-06T10:38:45Z phoe: I don't know if it's possible to portably tell Lisp to not treat a character as a package marker
2020-07-06T10:39:47Z beach: Yes, the #\: is not a macro character.
2020-07-06T10:39:47Z fbmnds: phoe: what would be a use case of what you are interested in?
2020-07-06T10:40:30Z phoe: fbmnds: developing Qt5 applications on SBCL/CCL for Windows/Linux/macOS
2020-07-06T10:40:52Z phoe: so something that is currently solved by commonqt/qtools, except they are qt4
2020-07-06T10:42:04Z fbmnds: phoe: afaik, I do not think that this will work with EQL5 - a switched from SBCL to ECL because of that
2020-07-06T10:42:51Z phoe: I'll stay with qtools then
2020-07-06T10:42:54Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-06T10:44:42Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-06T10:45:37Z fbmnds: phoe: I see - did not know this
2020-07-06T10:51:58Z phoe: jackdaniel: technical nitpick: is EQL5 allowed to be MIT? It seems to include minor modified snippets from ECL sources, see https://gitlab.com/eql/EQL5-Android/-/blob/master/utils/EQL5-symbols.lisp#L20102 (warning: huge file)
2020-07-06T10:53:01Z flazh quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T10:53:04Z phoe: that's a more general question I guess - if a package patches some other code by including and evaluating modified snippets of its source, does the copyleft virality also apply?
2020-07-06T10:53:15Z phoe: boy, things are interesting in the Lisp world
2020-07-06T10:54:57Z rgherdt: phoe: I would say yes, that doesn't seem to be different than other languages
2020-07-06T10:56:14Z beach: Another thing that other languages apparently have been stealing from us.
2020-07-06T10:59:14Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-06T10:59:18Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-06T10:59:19Z lavaflow quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T10:59:29Z phoe: ;; Online Lisp Meeting #4 starting now. https://www.twitch.tv/TwitchPlaysCommonLisp
2020-07-06T11:02:45Z dim: beach: Imitation is the Sincerest Form of Flattery, they say, right?
2020-07-06T11:03:17Z beach: Absolutely.
2020-07-06T11:04:25Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T11:06:10Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-06T11:08:40Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-06T11:08:54Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-06T11:10:03Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-06T11:12:21Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-06T11:14:40Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-06T11:18:49Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T11:20:57Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T11:31:42Z flip214_: phoe: https://gist.github.com/phmarek/5efca753394112c40a32905fd30c8ef9
2020-07-06T11:33:35Z jackdaniel: phoe: it does not bother me, but if it did then I'm sure it could ve resoved by upstreaming necessary changes
2020-07-06T11:33:53Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-06T11:34:09Z phoe: flip214_: a§toni§hing
2020-07-06T11:34:13Z flip214_: beach: they didn't steal, we still have it
2020-07-06T11:34:13Z phoe: jackdaniel: OK
2020-07-06T11:34:41Z jackdaniel: technically speaking I think that your concern has merit and I'm sure PR would be cooperative if it becomes a problem
2020-07-06T11:34:48Z flip214_: phoe: well, you can just use 🖈 as well
2020-07-06T11:37:00Z duuqnd joined #lisp
2020-07-06T11:42:08Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-06T11:43:22Z fbmnds quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2020-07-06T11:44:44Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T11:52:54Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-06T11:58:21Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-06T11:58:33Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:00:28Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-06T12:01:27Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:02:04Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-06T12:06:51Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:07:17Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:07:44Z phoe: ooookay then
2020-07-06T12:09:24Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:11:08Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:15:20Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T12:16:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:18:24Z flip214_: to "pin" the letters to their cases ;)
2020-07-06T12:21:34Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-06T12:29:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:36:53Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-06T12:37:04Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:43:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T12:49:24Z Necktwi quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-06T12:51:26Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:52:00Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:53:09Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-06T12:53:20Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:55:55Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T12:58:51Z shka_: is sbcl boxing double-floats in simple-vector?
2020-07-06T12:59:36Z phoe: shka_: AFAIK yes
2020-07-06T13:00:31Z phoe: since a double is 64 bits, it can't really stay unboxed if tagging bits are needed
2020-07-06T13:02:24Z shka_: phoe: well, mandate requests minimum of 50 bits
2020-07-06T13:02:35Z shka_: *standard mandates
2020-07-06T13:02:44Z shka_: that's why i am asking
2020-07-06T13:03:16Z phoe: "The IEEE 754 standard specifies a binary64 as having 1+11+52 bits"
2020-07-06T13:03:27Z phoe: I assume that this is the double float we are talking about
2020-07-06T13:04:23Z shka_: i wask asking about CL:DOUBLE-FLOAT which must have a least 50 bits of precision and 8 bits for exponent
2020-07-06T13:04:38Z phoe: oh! you meant the CL standard, not the IEEE one :D
2020-07-06T13:04:51Z shka_: yes
2020-07-06T13:05:18Z phoe: I assume that SBCL implements floats as IEEE 754 doubles though, which means they take a full 64-bit word
2020-07-06T13:05:19Z shka_: but i think that sbcl uses all 64 bits regardless
2020-07-06T13:05:51Z shka_: ok, i suspected that this is the case
2020-07-06T13:06:19Z shka_: because of notes sbcl produces
2020-07-06T13:06:55Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-06T13:09:37Z jackdaniel: and that's why single-floats may be much faster on CL, because they may be implemented as immediate objects with a type tag
2020-07-06T13:11:19Z JohnMS_WORK quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2020-07-06T13:11:31Z freshpassport quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-06T13:14:10Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-06T13:14:34Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:17:56Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:19:44Z phoe: 32 bits of data leaves plenty of space for tagging information on 64-bit implementations, whereas with fullword data like doubles the compiler and programmer need to exercise and cooperate a lot to prevent boxing
2020-07-06T13:20:02Z phoe: ...or with single floats on 32-bit implementations
2020-07-06T13:20:04Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:23:31Z akrl`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T13:23:48Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:24:36Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:25:49Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:26:07Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-06T13:26:36Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-06T13:28:52Z bitmapper quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T13:29:05Z Trpger joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:29:09Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:29:21Z Trpger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T13:37:59Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:38:50Z p_l: I wonder if it would be possible (or sensible at all) to somehow pack pointers into NaNs on a CL implementation
2020-07-06T13:41:28Z phoe: p_l: hmmm, you'd get 53 bits of address space that way
2020-07-06T13:41:31Z phoe: 54 if you count the sign bit
2020-07-06T13:41:46Z phoe: uh, I mean 52/53
2020-07-06T13:42:13Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T13:42:35Z p_l: phoe: more interested in how effective one can use them as pointers, unboxed
2020-07-06T13:43:24Z fanta1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-06T13:48:36Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:48:56Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T13:56:21Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T13:58:03Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:00:44Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T14:01:13Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:01:42Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T14:02:04Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-06T14:02:19Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:03:22Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:09:27Z ggole: NaN-boxing is probably better for languages with double-only numbers
2020-07-06T14:14:46Z fluxwave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T14:15:02Z stux|RC quit (Quit: Aloha!)
2020-07-06T14:15:29Z fluxwave joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:15:32Z fluxwave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T14:16:21Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:18:38Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:20:34Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T14:25:31Z fluxwave joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:25:54Z fluxwave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T14:28:42Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T14:30:37Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:31:17Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T14:32:10Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:35:29Z fluxwave joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:35:45Z fluxwave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T14:38:19Z korner joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:38:53Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:40:31Z fluxwave joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:41:53Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:43:18Z fluxwave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T14:47:58Z jmercouris: is there something like collect-if in a loop macro?
2020-07-06T14:48:12Z beach: when ... collect ...
2020-07-06T14:48:13Z phoe: jmercouris: (loop ... when x collect y ...)
2020-07-06T14:48:21Z jmercouris: ah, yes
2020-07-06T14:48:22Z jmercouris: thank you
2020-07-06T14:50:32Z fluxwave joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:52:50Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:54:39Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:55:15Z akrl`` joined #lisp
2020-07-06T14:58:02Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-06T14:59:15Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-06T15:03:38Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T15:07:03Z tich quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T15:09:22Z rumbler31_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T15:14:30Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-06T15:16:13Z korner: so i had been bit confused, i was told to test lisp code i should use sbcl but i cannot quite find how to actually use it
2020-07-06T15:16:32Z phoe: korner: `sudo apt install sbcl && sbcl`?
2020-07-06T15:16:50Z phoe: that's the installation and running part that should get you all the way to the SBCL prompt
2020-07-06T15:17:06Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T15:17:11Z korner: i have sbcl but i couldnt quite figure out how to "run" .lisp file
2020-07-06T15:17:39Z phoe: sbcl --load foo.lisp
2020-07-06T15:17:59Z phoe: and/or sbcl --script foo.lisp
2020-07-06T15:18:23Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-06T15:18:31Z korner: thanks that works
2020-07-06T15:18:36Z phoe: the former will AFAIK load it and stay alive, the latter will load the file and exit
2020-07-06T15:18:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T15:18:45Z beach: korner: You don't typically use Common Lisp the way you use (say) C.  It is more common to start a REPL (Read-Eval-Print-Loop) and work from inside the system.
2020-07-06T15:19:08Z korner: i never touched C before
2020-07-06T15:19:17Z beach: Well, any batch language.
2020-07-06T15:19:35Z beach: korner: If you plan to develop in Common Lisp the way you do in a typical batch language, you probably won't see the point.
2020-07-06T15:19:45Z phoe: maybe another question
2020-07-06T15:19:48Z phoe: korner: what's your use case?
2020-07-06T15:19:51Z korner: not sure what batch language is but i was just curious bout lisp thats all
2020-07-06T15:20:06Z korner: not work, not student, just simply curiosity cause the syntax seems pretty nice
2020-07-06T15:20:26Z phoe: oh
2020-07-06T15:20:30Z beach: korner: By a batch language, I mean one that takes a source file, turn it into an executable, which you then start from your shell prompt.
2020-07-06T15:20:43Z korner: ah i see
2020-07-06T15:21:02Z korner: yeah i tried rust and haskell, that was some black magick
2020-07-06T15:21:12Z phoe: Lisp is another kind of black magic
2020-07-06T15:21:30Z phoe: you program in Rust and Haskell by writing code that the compiler then turns into executables
2020-07-06T15:21:38Z korner: yes
2020-07-06T15:21:51Z phoe: but you program in Lisp by starting a Lisp image and then modifying it until it contains the program that you want
2020-07-06T15:21:57Z korner: i noticed though that lisp syntax is lil bit simmiliar to the way i format lua so thats fun
2020-07-06T15:22:05Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-06T15:22:09Z phoe: it's a different creative process
2020-07-06T15:22:19Z korner: but i think i get the idea
2020-07-06T15:22:22Z phoe: mostly because Lisp stays alive throughout the whole programming experience
2020-07-06T15:23:39Z beach: korner: I think there are some YouTube videos that will give you the idea about how we work.
2020-07-06T15:23:42Z korner: was quite confused what i am even supposed to learn cause there is some common lisp, racket and million other lisps, thought common lisp would be nice starting point
2020-07-06T15:23:56Z korner: was told that common-lisp is useless but that sounds unlikely
2020-07-06T15:24:01Z phoe: korner: #lisp is a Common Lisp place, so obviously we'll suggest Common Lisp to you
2020-07-06T15:24:19Z phoe: it's a general-purpose programming language that I personally use for all personal projects I make
2020-07-06T15:24:27Z random-nick quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-06T15:24:36Z phoe: I really enjoy its interactivity and really short feedback loops.
2020-07-06T15:26:14Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-06T15:26:39Z akrl`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T15:26:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T15:26:52Z rumbler31_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T15:27:12Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-06T15:27:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T15:29:08Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T15:29:49Z korner quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-06T15:35:22Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T15:37:17Z contrapunctus: I was wondering today...could I use CL to make a MIDI sequencer? 🤔 It seems to be the exclusive domain of C/C++
2020-07-06T15:37:33Z beach: Of course you can.
2020-07-06T15:38:03Z contrapunctus: And GC won't pose an issue? o.o
2020-07-06T15:38:21Z beach: That would depend on the Common Lisp implementation.
2020-07-06T15:38:46Z beach: It would also depend on how low-level you want things to be in your application.
2020-07-06T15:39:11Z beach: Like, do you want to generate the sound yourself from oscillators and/or sample files?
2020-07-06T15:39:21Z contrapunctus: The latter, at least
2020-07-06T15:40:20Z beach: Also, it will depend on how "real-time" you need for it to be.  If you fill the sound buffers enough, a GC won't ruin it.
2020-07-06T15:40:37Z beach: But it is probably best to avoid too much allocation during the "rendering" phase.
2020-07-06T15:41:49Z beach: The thing is, most current FLOSS Common Lisp implementations have a GC that is not very good for real-time.
2020-07-06T15:42:49Z contrapunctus: oh ._.
2020-07-06T15:43:23Z beach: I think you can avoid allocation entirely during rendering.
2020-07-06T15:43:37Z beach: After all, it is just arithmetic.
2020-07-06T15:45:16Z beach: Or, you can run some test code to see how long a GC typically takes.
2020-07-06T15:50:32Z phoe: another possibility is linking against FFI sound generators that don't suffer from GC issues - e.g. cl-collider for SuperCollider
2020-07-06T15:50:53Z phoe: that's mostly because we don't have soft-real-time GCs in free Common Lisp implementations
2020-07-06T15:51:01Z phoe: otherwise one could just write one in CL
2020-07-06T15:51:23Z beach: But we are working on such an implementation.
2020-07-06T15:51:27Z phoe: ^
2020-07-06T15:51:41Z phoe: I do want to see a soft-real-time GC in action in Common Lisp
2020-07-06T15:52:09Z beach: So I say, write the thing in Common Lisp entirely.  See how it works out.  Maybe tweak the parameters for current Common Lisp implementations.
2020-07-06T15:52:23Z beach: Then, once we have a good GC, use it.
2020-07-06T15:52:29Z phoe: hah, optimizing for the optimistic future
2020-07-06T15:52:32Z phoe: I can't blame you :D
2020-07-06T15:52:58Z beach: My experience is that it takes some time to write significant applications, and then the context has evolved.
2020-07-06T15:53:14Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-06T15:57:52Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T15:58:29Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:00:17Z choegusung joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:01:06Z shangul: Finally, I translated "How to make Lisp go faster than C" to my native language.
2020-07-06T16:01:14Z rgherdt: beach: which implementation do you mean? (that's working on real-time GC)
2020-07-06T16:01:37Z beach: minion: Please tell rgherdt about SICL.
2020-07-06T16:01:37Z minion: rgherdt: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
2020-07-06T16:02:22Z beach: Oh, and we are well on the say, so I don't think it is futile. :)
2020-07-06T16:03:08Z phoe: it already had multiple nice effects on the ecosystem even though it's incomplete, so definitely not futile
2020-07-06T16:03:21Z beach: Fair enough.
2020-07-06T16:03:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T16:03:50Z phoe: Eclector and Cleavir are the two most notable ones that I can think of
2020-07-06T16:04:07Z phoe: might be even more that I haven't yet become aware of
2020-07-06T16:04:11Z beach: Trucler too, but less spectacular.
2020-07-06T16:04:29Z beach: Compile-time lexical environments.
2020-07-06T16:04:43Z phoe reads up on trucler
2020-07-06T16:05:12Z beach: It is basically a CLOS-y version of the environment stuff from CLtL2.
2020-07-06T16:05:16Z rgherdt: beach: thanks, will read about it
2020-07-06T16:05:17Z beach: Also much more complete.
2020-07-06T16:05:43Z beach: rgherdt: There is a specification.  Hold on, I'll give you a link to a PDF.
2020-07-06T16:06:06Z beach: rgherdt: http://metamodular.com/SICL/sicl-specification.pdf I think.
2020-07-06T16:06:32Z beach: Yeah, that's it.
2020-07-06T16:08:19Z rgherdt: thx
2020-07-06T16:08:25Z beach: ywlcm
2020-07-06T16:18:13Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T16:18:54Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:20:34Z bacterio quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-06T16:22:12Z nydel quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-06T16:22:27Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:22:30Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T16:22:58Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T16:23:32Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:26:15Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-06T16:30:30Z choegusung quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-06T16:32:58Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:33:55Z matzy_: should i be overly concerned if i created a db table in mito using it's classes and i see the table in my sql editor, but the (mito:ensure-table-exists 'mytable) returns NIL?
2020-07-06T16:37:46Z nydel joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:42:08Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:44:32Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:45:42Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-06T16:46:20Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:54:34Z mfiano: M-. and you'll see it returns the result of MAPC
2020-07-06T16:54:49Z matzy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T16:55:25Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-06T16:55:41Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-06T17:00:13Z aindilis quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T17:00:36Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T17:03:22Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:03:28Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:05:31Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:06:21Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:06:37Z Necktwi quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-06T17:08:12Z lonjil quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 210 seconds.)
2020-07-06T17:08:15Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:08:28Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T17:09:04Z jbgg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T17:10:00Z lonjil joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:10:04Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:11:58Z stoneglass left #lisp
2020-07-06T17:14:12Z jbgg joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:16:11Z fluxwave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T17:16:49Z fluxwave joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:17:02Z fluxwave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T17:21:46Z fluxwave joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:26:54Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:30:06Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:31:18Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:31:53Z matzy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T17:33:38Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T17:34:35Z akrl`` joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:37:11Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-06T17:38:03Z fluxwave quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-06T17:38:19Z akrl`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T17:38:29Z akrl`` joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:43:34Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-06T17:45:17Z alandipert: is anyone aware of a pedagogical impl. of multiple values in the spirit of http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html? e.g. implemented in terms of other operators
2020-07-06T17:45:41Z bacterio joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:46:44Z alandipert: uhoh, that link is down. archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20191023160058/http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html
2020-07-06T17:47:17Z Bike: not that i know of. let me see if i can write one real quick
2020-07-06T17:47:17Z alandipert: oh jeez, disregard, it's there at the bottom :-)
2020-07-06T17:47:25Z Bike: oh, is it?
2020-07-06T17:47:37Z Bike: ah, yeah.
2020-07-06T17:48:03Z alandipert: yeah i gave it a go myself and looks like i arrived at something not far off from his
2020-07-06T17:48:07Z alandipert: phew
2020-07-06T17:48:35Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T17:49:01Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:49:23Z aindilis quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T17:49:37Z Bike: this is kind of confusing to follow.
2020-07-06T17:50:26Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:50:48Z Bike: but yeah having a thread local global vector is basically it
2020-07-06T17:52:03Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T17:53:07Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:56:06Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T17:56:32Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T17:59:27Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:02:33Z akrl`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T18:05:21Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:06:13Z akrl`` joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:06:33Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T18:07:00Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:08:57Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-06T18:08:58Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:13:29Z aindilis quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T18:14:01Z stepnem_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T18:14:28Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:15:01Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T18:15:28Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:16:52Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T18:18:18Z matzy_: what's the point of setting an accessor that's different that the slot name?
2020-07-06T18:18:35Z phoe: matzy_: you don't export slot names this way
2020-07-06T18:18:49Z phoe: (defclass foo ((%bar :accessor bar))) <- I only export FOO and BAR
2020-07-06T18:19:07Z phoe: this prevents people from using SLOT-VALUE and forces them to uses the accessor functions, which may implement additional logic.
2020-07-06T18:19:36Z phoe: where "prevents" means "unless they want to type the unholy trio of characters, «::%»"
2020-07-06T18:19:59Z matzy_: so you can make your :accessor a function?
2020-07-06T18:20:08Z phoe: what do you mean, make it a function?
2020-07-06T18:20:19Z phoe: :accessor defines a pair of functions, #'BAR and #'(SETF BAR)
2020-07-06T18:20:42Z Sauvin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T18:20:43Z matzy_: right, but you mentioned additional logic implemented by the accessor
2020-07-06T18:21:29Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:21:30Z matzy_: oh, you mean when you set the accessor you can implement additional logic
2020-07-06T18:21:45Z phoe: (defmethod bar :around (object) ...)
2020-07-06T18:21:48Z phoe: (defmethod bar :after (object) ...)
2020-07-06T18:21:51Z phoe: (defmethod bar :before (object) ...)
2020-07-06T18:21:59Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:22:11Z phoe: then also the variants of the above that specialize on OBJECT in various ways
2020-07-06T18:23:06Z akrl`` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T18:23:08Z matzy_: ok, that helps. thanks a lot
2020-07-06T18:23:23Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:23:24Z matzy_: so best practice is to always give your accessors a different name
2020-07-06T18:23:45Z matzy_: or a similar but slightly different name
2020-07-06T18:24:01Z phoe: the common thing is to name slots %foo and accessors foo
2020-07-06T18:24:15Z phoe: where "%" means "internal"
2020-07-06T18:27:43Z ech quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T18:29:25Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T18:30:22Z _death: I don't think it's particularly common..
2020-07-06T18:30:49Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-06T18:30:54Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:34:17Z mankaev quit
2020-07-06T18:34:41Z phoe: s/the common thing/the naming scheme I personally use/
2020-07-06T18:35:02Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:35:50Z arbv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T18:35:58Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:36:05Z Bike: beach does it too, so that makes it basically a standard,
2020-07-06T18:36:25Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:36:29Z phoe: you mean a new standard, newer than ANSI CL?
2020-07-06T18:36:36Z phoe: oh boy here comes that discussion again~
2020-07-06T18:37:27Z _death: personally I dislike adorning symbols with strange characters beyond the earmuff convention
2020-07-06T18:39:49Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T18:40:08Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:40:22Z efm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:40:44Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-06T18:41:05Z phoe: how do you solve the export-the-accessor-not-the-slot-name problem then?
2020-07-06T18:41:06Z _death: btw thanks phoe and beach for today's online meeting.. I got into it a bit late and didn't bother logging in
2020-07-06T18:41:14Z phoe: _death: the video is online
2020-07-06T18:41:20Z phoe: both on Twitch (still) and on YouTube
2020-07-06T18:41:26Z _death: phoe: in my experience it's a nonissue
2020-07-06T18:41:33Z phoe: _death: that's a valid answer too
2020-07-06T18:41:41Z phoe: but anyway if you'd like to talk about anything for the next meeting, feel free to let me know
2020-07-06T18:42:17Z akrl`` joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:42:40Z phoe: and by "you" I mean "hey #lisp come on the slot's free let's keep the meetings rolling and such"
2020-07-06T18:42:52Z _death: also, I sometimes (often?) use the convention of giving a protocol-specific prefix to the access functions
2020-07-06T18:46:02Z aamukastemato joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:48:25Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:50:14Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-06T18:50:17Z mankaev quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-06T18:51:01Z efm_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-06T18:51:32Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-06T18:54:27Z pve: Sometimes, I dream of a library that aggregates all the common defclass usage patterns into a set of convenience macros that I could choose from, depending on my mood.
2020-07-06T18:55:58Z pve: Or one that provides a define-class-construction-kit, to which you can say "Hey, gimme a define-class macro with so-and-so slot and accessor naming scheme that maybe exports the class and its accessors by default, so my fingers don't bleed everytime I want to define a class".
2020-07-06T18:57:13Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T19:00:06Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T19:00:07Z v88m quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T19:01:55Z aamukastemato quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T19:02:35Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T19:04:40Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-06T19:07:14Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-06T19:08:18Z akrl`` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-06T19:09:30Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T19:10:45Z JohnTalent quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-06T19:12:10Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-06T19:20:29Z akrl`` joined #lisp
2020-07-06T19:24:40Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T19:28:31Z arbv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T19:28:59Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-06T19:38:28Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T19:39:29Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-06T19:50:02Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T19:54:25Z simendsjo joined #lisp
2020-07-06T19:55:24Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-06T19:59:40Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:00:03Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-06T20:00:56Z dominic34 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-06T20:10:51Z ym: Is a task of implementing arrays with signed (possible negative, in similar way C pointers allows it) index out of standard? Maybe someone knows an example?
2020-07-06T20:11:09Z phoe: not in portable CL
2020-07-06T20:11:22Z phoe: array indices are from 0 upwards
2020-07-06T20:11:23Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:11:23Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-06T20:11:23Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:11:33Z phoe: why though?
2020-07-06T20:11:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:12:48Z matzy_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-06T20:13:23Z ym: Why? I have a sine LUT and it would be nice to have positive values for 0 to pi and negative for 0 to -pi.
2020-07-06T20:14:10Z Bike: you can just have a function that accesses the lut and takes a possibly negative index as argument, and then it gets the actual index with a subtraction.
2020-07-06T20:14:26Z ym: Yes, but it costs.
2020-07-06T20:14:37Z phoe: use (mod n 2pi)
2020-07-06T20:14:41Z ym: I do.
2020-07-06T20:15:00Z Bike: barely anything. also, you could just have a table from 0 to pi and negate it, couldn't you?
2020-07-06T20:15:02Z phoe: don't know if it can be done any better in portable CL then
2020-07-06T20:15:31Z _death: a lookup table is suspicious in the first place
2020-07-06T20:16:28Z Bike: a C array is just a bunch of objects that are contiguous in storage. a lisp array is an actual structure. so lisp arrays don't work like C arrays.
2020-07-06T20:17:32Z ym: Bike, I can, but I also has a compound type that will fit very well with described LUT access method. But thanks anyway.
2020-07-06T20:17:59Z ym: _death, why?
2020-07-06T20:19:05Z _death: because nowadays on much hardware sine computation would be much faster than a memory access
2020-07-06T20:19:53Z ym: How do you write lisp code with modern hardware?
2020-07-06T20:20:23Z _death: for start, you have a SIN function
2020-07-06T20:20:55Z ym: I have or LISP does?
2020-07-06T20:21:14Z _death: clhs sin
2020-07-06T20:21:14Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sin_c.htm
2020-07-06T20:22:00Z ym: So how do I make it run on modern hardware to achieve sine values faster than from LUT?
2020-07-06T20:22:22Z _death: by calling it
2020-07-06T20:22:45Z _death: I guess there's some miscommunication going on?
2020-07-06T20:23:11Z ym: Seems like it.
2020-07-06T20:24:08Z ym: Maybe I have not modern enough hardware, but for me sin always slower than aref from array.
2020-07-06T20:24:12Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:28:16Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:29:37Z _death: maybe something weird is going on, because modern hardware has fast instructions for computing it
2020-07-06T20:30:41Z _death: (in fact, not so modern hardware had them.. like 80287?
2020-07-06T20:31:53Z ym: CPU instructions for trigonometric function? Give me a hint how to google it.
2020-07-06T20:32:09Z phoe: https://mudongliang.github.io/x86/html/file_module_x86_id_114.html
2020-07-06T20:33:08Z _death: I think nowadays some SSE analogue is used
2020-07-06T20:33:49Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T20:34:10Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-06T20:34:55Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-06T20:35:26Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:35:56Z _death: looking at sbcl code it does seem weird that it has #-x86 (def-math-rtn "sin" 1) which supposedly calls the C function
2020-07-06T20:38:03Z ym: Intel Haswell fsin: 47-106c latency. 71-100 uops.
2020-07-06T20:38:25Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-06T20:38:40Z duuqnd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T20:39:09Z duuqnd joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:39:34Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T20:41:42Z nicktick quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-06T20:42:33Z narimiran quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-06T20:42:49Z ym: fsin always takes hundreds cycles. Maybe if you implement your own sine on modern Intel's CPU+FPGA chips, that would be same as accessing precalculated value.
2020-07-06T20:47:09Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T20:48:42Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-06T20:56:07Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:56:15Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:57:45Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-06T20:58:34Z elderK: Hey all, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with ASDF package-inferred-systems. If so, how did you feel about them? Did you find they made it easier to manage larger projects? Any alternatives?
2020-07-06T21:00:28Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T21:00:49Z nicktick quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-06T21:01:16Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-06T21:04:13Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T21:05:03Z gxt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-06T21:05:18Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-06T21:07:37Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-06T21:11:24Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T21:13:01Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-06T21:15:03Z pfdietz joined #lisp
2020-07-06T21:29:46Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T21:31:14Z cranes quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-06T21:35:09Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-06T21:36:42Z pve: elderK: it's a matter of taste, if you're comfortable with juggling exports then it's fine
2020-07-06T21:37:12Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-06T21:37:23Z pve: in my current project I do one package per directory/module
2020-07-06T21:39:23Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-06T21:40:09Z Lycurgus: if it only came in 3.1.2 ... .
2020-07-06T21:41:11Z phoe: How can I define a LIST-OF type using SATISFIES that will only match lists whose all elements are of type TYPE? I want to use it like (typep x '(list-of number))
2020-07-06T21:42:04Z phoe: I assume that this should expand into (satisfies somepred) - but, given a single argument to the type expander, what should SOMEPRED be?
2020-07-06T21:42:20Z phoe: do I need to DEFUN inside the type expander to take care of that?
2020-07-06T21:45:24Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T21:46:46Z sz0 joined #lisp
2020-07-06T21:46:59Z ym: deftype has example in hyperspec. somepred would be a list you're checking.
2020-07-06T21:47:07Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-06T21:47:26Z phoe: a list? what do you mean?
2020-07-06T21:47:53Z phoe: SOMEPRED must be a one-argument predicate if it's a part of SATISFIES
2020-07-06T21:48:06Z pve: I remember trying to do that a long time ago too, my conclusion (could be wrong) was that you needed to have some magic to ensure predicates exist for each concrete type you want to check
2020-07-06T21:48:10Z phoe: also, the example isn't really what I am looking for
2020-07-06T21:48:23Z elderK: pve: How do you handle the case where two modules require something from each other? Say, interfaces.
2020-07-06T21:48:29Z elderK: Just define an interfaces package?
2020-07-06T21:49:18Z elderK: I've been playing with Lisp for awhile now but I'm still new to using it in a practical sense :)
2020-07-06T21:49:20Z phoe: elderK: the easiest is to define a protocol/interface package and have the modules use it
2020-07-06T21:50:15Z ym: phoe, you first defun somepred so that it accept one argument, then you deftype with (satisfies somepred). Why don't you like the example?
2020-07-06T21:50:33Z pve: elderK: hmm I try to make sure the dependencies are one-way always
2020-07-06T21:50:51Z pve: if that's what you mean
2020-07-06T21:51:00Z elderK: phoe: Another question is, like, constructors. How do you handle the case of initializing stuff in a new object instance? Say, some members are initialized in a complex way, based on some parameters you set when you create the instance. Do you just have a function that encapsulates that all? Do you use shared-initialize? I'm not sure what the best way is to handle that.
2020-07-06T21:51:01Z Lycurgus forgot the geneology back to mk-defsystem. Also thereis a grovel extension.
2020-07-06T21:51:01Z phoe: ym: I cannot define a single type named LIST-OF that accepts a type as an argument. I must define LIST-OF-NUMBER, LIST-OF-INTEGER, LIST-OF-SYMBOL, ...
2020-07-06T21:51:15Z elderK: That is, creating an instance is more complex than just (make-instance 'thing ...)
2020-07-06T21:51:28Z phoe: elderK: wait a second, what do you mean, more complex
2020-07-06T21:51:49Z phoe: MAKE-INSTANCE is supposed to be the external interface, because you can arbitrarily complicate the process of instantiating
2020-07-06T21:52:07Z phoe: by defining methods on INITIALIZE-INSTANCE, REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE, SHARED-INITIALIZE, and/or the two update functions
2020-07-06T21:52:28Z phoe: in a purely CLOSsy perspective, you should never need any kind of wrapper over MAKE-INSTANCE
2020-07-06T21:52:56Z elderK: phoe: Okay, so methods on those generics are roughly equivalent to constructors in other languages?
2020-07-06T21:53:03Z phoe: elderK: yes, that's the idea.
2020-07-06T21:53:10Z elderK: phoe: Thank you :)
2020-07-06T21:53:28Z phoe: INITIALIZE-INSTANCE: for new instances. REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE: for old instances that you need to "reinitialize", whatever it means for you.
2020-07-06T21:53:36Z phoe: Update methods: when the class was modified or you change the instance's class.
2020-07-06T21:53:46Z elderK: How often should we be concerned with reinitialize-instance and such? I rarely see them defined.
2020-07-06T21:53:48Z phoe: SHARED-INITIALIZE: for code that is supposed to execute in all of the above cases.
2020-07-06T21:54:01Z phoe: elderK: do you call REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE on your instances?
2020-07-06T21:54:54Z ym: phoe, maybe store list type in the end of the list?
2020-07-06T21:54:58Z phoe: if you don't have a use case for it and don't call it, then you can use the default behavior
2020-07-06T21:55:30Z phoe: ym: sounds dirty.
2020-07-06T21:55:45Z phoe: then the list contains objects that aren't of the type I want
2020-07-06T21:56:29Z phoe: we could cons them onto the beginning of that list I guess, but then suddenly we get (typep (cons type list) '(satisfies list-of-x))
2020-07-06T21:56:40Z phoe: I'll go the SETF FDEFINITION way
2020-07-06T21:57:35Z ym: Don't list always has nil in the end?
2020-07-06T21:57:54Z phoe: consing onto the beginning is cheaper than consing at the end and doesn't require the list to be mutated
2020-07-06T21:58:20Z phoe: if I have a list (1 2 3), I don't want to traverse it and set its last CDR to some type so I get (1 2 3 . MY-AWESOME-TYPE)
2020-07-06T21:58:38Z phoe: since not only that destroys my list, it's also really really pointless
2020-07-06T22:00:22Z ym: Maybe check the type of first element of a list in somepred and compare it's type to other elements type.
2020-07-06T22:01:19Z elderK: phoe: If I have a class B and I want to create an instance of it in file A (but not use any of its methods), is it wise to have A depend on the file that defines B?
2020-07-06T22:01:20Z ym: It will only tell if list is filled with similar type elements though.
2020-07-06T22:01:34Z elderK: Or is it not necessary in CL? Since, make-instance just accepts a symbol for the class name?
2020-07-06T22:01:54Z phoe: elderK: it accepts a symbol just fine
2020-07-06T22:02:01Z elderK: I've been going on the hypothesis that the symbol naming the class is namespaced, and so I could import it.
2020-07-06T22:02:51Z elderK: Say, foo:my-class vs zug:my-class.
2020-07-06T22:03:32Z phoe: sure, as long as the symbol already exists
2020-07-06T22:03:37Z phoe: ...at read-time, I mean
2020-07-06T22:04:19Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T22:06:37Z elderK: phoe: If initialize-instance takes care of initializing some slots, how do you ensure that another user instantiating your class, doesn't specify initializers for those slots directly?
2020-07-06T22:06:57Z Xach: don't make the initarg easy to use
2020-07-06T22:07:00Z elderK: If class A has slots s0 and s1, and s1 is initialized in initialize-instance, how do I prevent the user (make-instance 'A :s1 whatever)
2020-07-06T22:07:15Z Xach: use a "private" symbol as the initarg for s1, for example
2020-07-06T22:07:24Z Xach: or don't have an initarg for it at all
2020-07-06T22:07:27Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:07:37Z cranes quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-06T22:07:41Z Xach: or document that they Mustn't
2020-07-06T22:07:49Z elderK: Thank you, Xach.
2020-07-06T22:08:08Z elderK: I've been using keyword symbols for initargs. I didn't think to use an ordinary symbol :)
2020-07-06T22:08:28Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:08:37Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:08:37Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-06T22:08:38Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:08:42Z Xach: elderK: it is not very common in my experience
2020-07-06T22:08:51Z Xach: but, this is a situation that calls for them
2020-07-06T22:11:46Z phoe: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1944#1944
2020-07-06T22:11:50Z phoe: aaaaaaah
2020-07-06T22:11:58Z phoe: ugly, but satisfying
2020-07-06T22:12:20Z cranes quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-06T22:12:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T22:12:48Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:12:48Z cranes quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-06T22:12:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:12:56Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:13:37Z nabataeus joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:14:17Z phoe: (typep '(1 2 3) '(phoe-toolbox:list-of cl:number)) ;=> T
2020-07-06T22:14:40Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T22:16:39Z cranes quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-06T22:16:51Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:17:14Z grewal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-06T22:17:23Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:17:35Z nabataeus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-06T22:17:40Z pve: phoe: neat, are you able to get compile-time warnings with that? (it's late, so I can't reason about that myself now)
2020-07-06T22:18:22Z phoe: what do you mean, compile-time warnings?
2020-07-06T22:18:28Z phoe: it's SATISFIES so I don't expect to get anything
2020-07-06T22:19:25Z pve: like if you declaim ftype myfunction to take a list-of cl:number
2020-07-06T22:19:43Z phoe: can SATISFIES go into DECLAIM FTYPE?...
2020-07-06T22:19:46Z phoe checks
2020-07-06T22:19:57Z pve: and then somewhere call it with list-of cl:string
2020-07-06T22:20:22Z phoe: don't think so
2020-07-06T22:20:31Z phoe: SATISFIES types are black boxes to Lisp compilers
2020-07-06T22:20:34Z pve: ok
2020-07-06T22:20:56Z pve: no parameterized type for us then :(
2020-07-06T22:21:22Z phoe: sorry, can't hack the CL type system like that.
2020-07-06T22:22:09Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T22:22:34Z pve: yeah, I didn't think so
2020-07-06T22:23:22Z grewal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T22:23:49Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T22:23:49Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:24:04Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:25:12Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:28:07Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-06T22:28:35Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T22:28:40Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T22:28:50Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:33:58Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:35:37Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-06T22:36:47Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-06T22:44:11Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-06T22:47:43Z catern quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-06T22:48:27Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:48:31Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:48:47Z epony quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T22:56:18Z ym: I made like this: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1945#1945
2020-07-06T22:57:16Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-06T22:58:17Z ym: Also indention's broken.
2020-07-06T23:00:32Z phoe: ...woah!
2020-07-06T23:00:36Z phoe: that's actually genius!!!
2020-07-06T23:01:42Z phoe: I didn't think to combine CONS and SATISFIES like that
2020-07-06T23:01:56Z phoe: this is brilliant stuff
2020-07-06T23:13:23Z Bike: type-of might not be the best operator for this, it can return a lot of things.
2020-07-06T23:14:15Z duuqnd quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-06T23:14:54Z phoe: Bike: it will never return NIL though
2020-07-06T23:15:16Z phoe: so if we bend the rules and use its output as a boolean, then this code will magically work
2020-07-06T23:15:35Z phoe: I'll go to sleep now and will use the insight from ym to make a better version tomorrow morning
2020-07-06T23:16:14Z Bike: i mean, for example, you could have a (list-of cons) and then type-of would return a (cons x y) type depending on what's in the cons
2020-07-06T23:16:30Z phoe: oh right
2020-07-06T23:16:35Z phoe: yes, I see now
2020-07-06T23:16:45Z phoe: there's multiple type-of in there
2020-07-06T23:16:48Z Bike: or one you could actually run into, if you have (list-of simple-vector), but on sbcl (type-of #(1 2 3)) => (simple-vector 3)
2020-07-06T23:17:05Z phoe: I assume we can just use EVERY TYPEP on the CDR of that list though
2020-07-06T23:17:30Z Bike: i guess, but that doesn't help if type-of returns something unfavorable for the first element.
2020-07-06T23:18:28Z phoe: oh
2020-07-06T23:18:34Z phoe: that's correct, yes
2020-07-06T23:18:40Z phoe: for 1 it might return BIT
2020-07-06T23:18:56Z phoe: and therefore the thing will fail for e.g. '(1 2 3 4 5)
2020-07-06T23:19:20Z phoe: sigh
2020-07-06T23:20:00Z phoe: well at least we tried
2020-07-06T23:20:17Z phoe goes to sleep
2020-07-06T23:20:27Z Bike: yeah, sorry to be no fun
2020-07-06T23:25:28Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-06T23:26:35Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-06T23:40:08Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-06T23:40:34Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-06T23:44:32Z efm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-06T23:44:58Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T23:45:32Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-06T23:46:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T00:08:33Z efm_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-07T00:13:41Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T00:14:11Z drmeister: Does anyone know how to figure out what directory asdf is using for its cache?
2020-07-07T00:18:10Z Bike: maybe you can call apply-output-translations with whatever source pathname?
2020-07-07T00:27:09Z drmeister: Yes - that worked.
2020-07-07T00:27:25Z drmeister: As in...
2020-07-07T00:27:27Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tUnu5b6W/
2020-07-07T00:28:02Z simendsjo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T00:46:36Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T00:46:36Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-07T00:46:36Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T00:55:48Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T00:58:32Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-07T01:05:34Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T01:06:35Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T01:11:05Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T01:22:40Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-07T01:28:11Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-07T01:35:12Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T01:36:02Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T01:39:48Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-07T01:42:39Z Khisanth quit (Read error: No route to host)
2020-07-07T01:48:39Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-07T01:51:16Z marusich joined #lisp
2020-07-07T01:53:52Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-07T01:56:35Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-07T01:57:29Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-07T02:23:59Z efm quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-07T02:27:16Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-07T02:27:50Z syminal joined #lisp
2020-07-07T02:35:54Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-07T02:43:16Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T02:57:42Z nullman quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-07T02:59:20Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T03:01:44Z pfdietz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-07T03:01:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T03:09:06Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-07T03:09:50Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-07T03:15:52Z epony quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-07T03:16:09Z eponym joined #lisp
2020-07-07T03:22:28Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-07T03:25:08Z yangby joined #lisp
2020-07-07T03:25:35Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-07T03:27:19Z himmAllRight17 joined #lisp
2020-07-07T03:27:29Z himmAllRight quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-07T03:27:29Z AdmiralBumbleBee quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T03:28:15Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T03:29:23Z AdmiralBumbleBee joined #lisp
2020-07-07T03:30:54Z yangby quit (Quit: Go out for a walk and buy a drink.)
2020-07-07T03:31:44Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T03:33:31Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-07T03:45:09Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-07T03:49:12Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T03:49:25Z eponym quit (Quit: reconfigure)
2020-07-07T03:50:17Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-07T04:11:56Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-07T04:16:22Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T04:16:59Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-07T04:21:41Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-07T04:34:36Z vidak` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T04:41:44Z syminal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-07T04:47:39Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T04:51:22Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T04:54:17Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T04:54:30Z terpri_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T04:54:52Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T05:02:30Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-07T05:04:19Z vegai: morning
2020-07-07T05:04:20Z vegai: !
2020-07-07T05:04:25Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T05:06:13Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-07T05:10:46Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T05:14:01Z beach: Hello vegai.
2020-07-07T05:15:14Z beach: vegai: Are you new here?  I don't recognize your nick.
2020-07-07T05:17:42Z vegai: somewhat yes, I've lurked before as well
2020-07-07T05:18:04Z beach: I see.  Welcome!  What brings you to #lisp?
2020-07-07T05:19:46Z vegai: the search for the perfect programming language, of course :P
2020-07-07T05:20:04Z beach: Look no further! :)
2020-07-07T05:20:09Z vegai: or the neverending quest, perhaps
2020-07-07T05:21:56Z aeth: Well, you can always write your own. The closer your syntax is to CL's, the easier it is to write it in CL.
2020-07-07T05:22:16Z aeth: If it's almost entirely compatible, you can just use macros.
2020-07-07T05:25:57Z beach: vegai: So is the plan to learn enough Common Lisp to tell whether you can stop searching?
2020-07-07T05:26:11Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-07T05:29:23Z vegai: beach: yes, roughly so
2020-07-07T05:29:35Z beach: Sounds good.
2020-07-07T05:32:46Z aeth: vegai: what features are you looking for?
2020-07-07T05:33:10Z aeth: People have done everything from webdev to gamedev so there's quite the range of projects
2020-07-07T05:41:21Z Rapeseed joined #lisp
2020-07-07T05:42:20Z Rapeseed quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-07T05:43:26Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T05:45:12Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-07T05:47:30Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-07T05:52:55Z Rapeseed joined #lisp
2020-07-07T05:53:26Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-07T05:57:51Z JohnMS_WORK joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:00:44Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:00:58Z Rapeseed quit (K-Lined)
2020-07-07T06:01:26Z vegai: well, my checklist reads like it was made for cl
2020-07-07T06:01:42Z Rapeseed joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:01:42Z Rapeseed quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-07T06:02:07Z vegai: strong repl/dynamic programming; static types (optional or not); performance; stability; non-ambiguous syntax; standard with more than 1 implementation
2020-07-07T06:02:27Z beach: Perfect!
2020-07-07T06:02:58Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:03:35Z vegai: I don't actually know if cl has non-ambiguous syntax
2020-07-07T06:04:19Z beach: That depends on what you mean by that term.
2020-07-07T06:04:39Z vegai: it's a simple wish: I just want a deterministic formatter for my code
2020-07-07T06:04:52Z beach: But I think it is non-ambiguous.
2020-07-07T06:04:54Z vegai: I program a lot of python, where that's a bit of a problem
2020-07-07T06:05:07Z vegai: not a huge problem in practice actually, but still
2020-07-07T06:05:25Z beach: The surface syntax is trivial, but can become more complicated with reader macros.
2020-07-07T06:05:46Z beach: Then there is a second-level syntax on S-expressions in memory.
2020-07-07T06:06:03Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:06:09Z beach: The second-level syntax is defined by the special operators.
2020-07-07T06:16:47Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:16:49Z seok: Hi guys!
2020-07-07T06:16:56Z beach: Hello seok.
2020-07-07T06:16:59Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:17:02Z seok: Hi professor
2020-07-07T06:17:49Z seok: this isn't lisp related, but how would I scan my local ports to see which ports are being used by applications?
2020-07-07T06:19:53Z flip214_: seok: "netstat -antp | grep LISTEN", or nmap
2020-07-07T06:20:18Z flip214_: seok: but if you use 0 as port number, the kernel will allocate an available one for you
2020-07-07T06:20:24Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-07T06:20:30Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T06:20:41Z flip214_ is now known as flip214
2020-07-07T06:20:43Z beach: vegai: The Common Lisp language exposes the structure of the internal representation of code.  In most languages, that structure would be internal to the compiler, and different for each compiler.  As a consequence, the Common Lisp special operators (corresponding to fixed syntactic constructs in other languages, like loops, assignments, conditionals, etc.) is defined in terms of what goes where in the list that represent the
2020-07-07T06:20:44Z beach: S-expression.
2020-07-07T06:21:42Z seok: hm
2020-07-07T06:21:51Z seok: netstat -antp doesn't show anything for me
2020-07-07T06:21:59Z seok: I'm pretty sure I have some databases running
2020-07-07T06:25:56Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T06:26:18Z flip214: seok: what OS are you on?
2020-07-07T06:26:48Z flip214: windows doesn't like -p, it's "netstat -anto" there IIRC
2020-07-07T06:27:06Z flip214: don't know about the *BSDs or MacOS
2020-07-07T06:27:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:28:45Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:29:20Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:36:51Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:42:19Z rgherdt_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:42:58Z epony quit (Quit: reconfigure)
2020-07-07T06:43:59Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:45:20Z rgherdt__ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:46:28Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T06:47:37Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:48:49Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T06:49:24Z rgherdt_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T06:50:14Z rgherdt__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T06:50:56Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T06:51:40Z praiseallah88 joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:51:44Z praiseallah88: sun is not doing Allah is doing to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
2020-07-07T06:52:26Z praiseallah7 joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:55:42Z ChanServ has set mode +o phoe
2020-07-07T06:55:50Z phoe has set mode +b *!*cb6d2850@*.com/ip.203.109.40.80
2020-07-07T06:55:50Z praiseallah88 [~phoe@2001:19f0:5:689f:5400:2ff:fe77:b1de] has been kicked from #lisp by phoe (off-topic)
2020-07-07T06:56:13Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:56:13Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-07T06:56:13Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:56:47Z praiseallah7 [~phoe@2001:19f0:5:689f:5400:2ff:fe77:b1de] has been kicked from #lisp by phoe (off-topic)
2020-07-07T06:56:59Z ChanServ has set mode -o phoe
2020-07-07T06:58:54Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T06:58:56Z vaporatorius quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-07T06:59:10Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:59:10Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-07T06:59:10Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-07T06:59:43Z freshpassport quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-07-07T07:00:05Z Mawile quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-07T07:02:40Z Cymew joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:03:17Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:05:49Z msk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T07:09:57Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:10:49Z rgherdt_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:13:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T07:13:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:14:58Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T07:26:51Z Harag: am I right in assuming that when *print-readably* = t that the object written is not necessarily readble by a different "implementation"
2020-07-07T07:28:21Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:33:16Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-07T07:33:48Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:33:54Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T07:38:23Z phoe: yes
2020-07-07T07:38:50Z phoe: it is supposed to be readable back by the same version of the same implementation
2020-07-07T07:43:01Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:49:45Z yonkunas quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-07T07:55:04Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:57:34Z cyberbanjo joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:58:27Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:58:27Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-07T07:58:27Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T07:59:04Z Harag: thanx phoe
2020-07-07T08:03:10Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T08:04:13Z Harag: is it acceptable to add something to *features* for your own packages? It looks like it because I can see stuff like ALEXANDRIA::SEQUENCE-EMPTYP in there.
2020-07-07T08:06:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T08:06:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T08:08:19Z phoe: Harag: yes
2020-07-07T08:08:34Z phoe: then you do stuff like #+foo::bar
2020-07-07T08:09:32Z phoe: normally *FEATURES* are full of keywords, but there's only this many keywords available; this, and you might want to not export that feature symbol for whatever reason
2020-07-07T08:10:42Z Harag: got it
2020-07-07T08:13:11Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-07T08:18:43Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-07T08:18:57Z loke joined #lisp
2020-07-07T08:20:33Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-07T08:21:11Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T08:24:58Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-07T08:25:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T08:25:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T08:27:36Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-07T08:30:20Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-07T08:35:01Z coltkirk joined #lisp
2020-07-07T08:57:34Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T09:05:38Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T09:06:05Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-07T09:12:46Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-07T09:22:56Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-07T09:23:23Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-07T09:23:57Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T09:25:05Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-07T09:25:25Z ArthurStrong quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T09:25:25Z ayuce quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T09:25:51Z clintm joined #lisp
2020-07-07T09:26:09Z jdz joined #lisp
2020-07-07T09:26:10Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-07T09:26:25Z ArthurStrong joined #lisp
2020-07-07T09:27:27Z clintm: If I have two structs both with a slot of the same name, and I call the slot accessor function from one on an instance of the other, that's supposed to be a type error, right?  If so, does allegro really just return nil?
2020-07-07T09:28:31Z beach: Why would it be a type error?
2020-07-07T09:28:47Z clintm: I tested it in a bare alisp repl, but I'd like cofirmation before I plant a proverbial flag in the sand and say "this is bad and we shouldn't do it" at work.
2020-07-07T09:29:56Z flip214: clintm: for classes there's the generic function and methods framework. for structures the structure name is prepended for accessor names to avoid such conflicts.
2020-07-07T09:31:11Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-07T09:32:57Z clintm: beach: because it's two different types, at least that's what I assumed.  (defstruct a id) (defstruct b id) (a-id (make-b)) -> nil.  Should that really be nil?  On LW it's a type error.
2020-07-07T09:33:02Z beach: Oh, type error because you are giving it a struct of a different type.  Got it.
2020-07-07T09:33:09Z clintm: I mean, I assumed it would be a type error.
2020-07-07T09:33:22Z beach: It might just be undefined behavior.
2020-07-07T09:33:39Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-07T09:33:54Z lieven: is safety at the highest setting?
2020-07-07T09:34:01Z beach: Structs are designed to be fast.  It wouldn't surprise me if the accessor does nothing other than access an element with a particular index.
2020-07-07T09:34:10Z clintm: lieven: Oh, I didn't try that.
2020-07-07T09:36:48Z clintm: Same :(
2020-07-07T09:37:10Z beach: Structs are weird.  I strongly suggest you use standard classes instead.
2020-07-07T09:37:10Z clintm: At least with debug and safety 3
2020-07-07T09:37:57Z flip214: clintm: on SBCL I get   The value #S(B :ID NIL) is not of type COMMON-LISP-USER::A
2020-07-07T09:38:11Z lieven: an implementation is certainly allowed to carp but I don't think it's required
2020-07-07T09:38:22Z clintm: flip214: That's what I got with LW as well.
2020-07-07T09:39:08Z clintm: Hrm, maybe if I scour the allegro docs I can find a way to turn it on even if just during testing and development.  Thanks for the info, everyone!
2020-07-07T09:47:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-07T09:52:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T09:52:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T10:00:30Z Harag: is there a "prefered" "portable" pretty printing library out there that deals with writing the likes of clos objects and hashtables as readable, even if it is just readable by itself
2020-07-07T10:01:39Z phoe: I have phoe-toolbox:print-hash-table-readably for hash tables
2020-07-07T10:01:56Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-07T10:02:26Z phoe: and also possibly phoe-toolbox:print-instance-readably that tries to be DWIMmy in what it does
2020-07-07T10:02:37Z phoe: and therefore can miserably fail if one doesn't know what they're doing
2020-07-07T10:03:07Z phoe: see https://github.com/phoe/phoe-toolbox/blob/master/phoe-toolbox.lisp#L434
2020-07-07T10:03:48Z Harag: phoe: I have some as well was just wondering if I was reinventing the wheel again...
2020-07-07T10:05:05Z flip214: Harag: alexandria has (hash-table-alist) and -plist and the reverse functions... but you loose the :test that way.
2020-07-07T10:05:45Z edgar-rft: (print-readaby "btbtfdctgzthqmjbycftrwknrngmcjvbtnbwlkvf" :-)
2020-07-07T10:08:59Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T10:10:07Z Lord_of_Life quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-07T10:11:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-07T10:15:45Z phoe: Harag: reinventing the wheel is common in places where the standard and Alexandria are lacking
2020-07-07T10:16:51Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-07T10:19:35Z markoong is now known as kongmar
2020-07-07T10:19:53Z kongmar is now known as margeas
2020-07-07T10:20:06Z margeas is now known as markoong
2020-07-07T10:20:43Z markoong quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-07T10:21:08Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-07T10:21:24Z markoong quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-07T10:22:27Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-07T10:29:37Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T10:30:24Z flip214: phoe: perhaps such wheels should be added to alexandria-2, then
2020-07-07T10:32:58Z vhost- quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T10:35:13Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T10:36:04Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-07T10:36:33Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-07T10:40:26Z phoe: flip214: tempting
2020-07-07T10:41:30Z vhost- joined #lisp
2020-07-07T10:48:24Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T10:48:35Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T10:49:10Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-07T10:50:15Z flip214: phoe: can only save space if there are less duplicated implementations of common things
2020-07-07T10:56:34Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T11:02:23Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-07T11:02:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T11:03:24Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T11:03:24Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-07T11:03:24Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T11:07:54Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T11:17:12Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T11:18:57Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-07T11:27:16Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-07T11:30:32Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-07T11:37:54Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-07T11:40:18Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-07T11:40:57Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-07T11:42:19Z libertyprime quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-07T11:42:37Z ArthurStrong quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-07T11:44:24Z coltkirk left #lisp
2020-07-07T11:46:19Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T11:49:04Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-07T12:07:08Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-07T12:07:08Z MightyJoe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T12:25:25Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T12:29:18Z rgherdt_ is now known as rgherdt
2020-07-07T12:35:32Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-07T12:52:15Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-07T12:57:26Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T13:07:11Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T13:12:37Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-07T13:22:25Z freshpassport quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-07T13:23:04Z dyelar joined #lisp
2020-07-07T13:26:06Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-07T13:31:10Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T13:31:20Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-07T13:36:19Z phoe: flip214: I don't know what should A² be composed of; I could think a little bit on it and propose some ideas
2020-07-07T13:37:26Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-07T13:39:34Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T13:40:59Z Xach: Would you please try to "curl https://beta.quicklisp.org/quicklisp.lisp > /dev/null" and tell me if you get an error from curl?
2020-07-07T13:41:54Z igemnace quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T13:42:46Z Bike: is that an open question? i didn't see any errors.
2020-07-07T13:42:58Z Xach: So open
2020-07-07T13:43:52Z Xach: Bike: do you mind telling me what OS you are using?
2020-07-07T13:44:02Z Bike: arch linux. i can try it on a mac too if you want.
2020-07-07T13:44:12Z Xach: Bike: if you don't mind, please do
2020-07-07T13:44:44Z Bike: (60) SSL certificate problem: certificate has expired
2020-07-07T13:44:57Z Xach: Thanks.
2020-07-07T13:45:34Z Bike: welcome
2020-07-07T13:45:50Z Xach: Different client SSL configurations produce different results. It's frustrating.
2020-07-07T13:46:46Z phoe: Bike: which mac version?
2020-07-07T13:47:04Z Xach: phoe: I get it on 10.15.5
2020-07-07T13:47:41Z phoe: that's surprisingly recent
2020-07-07T13:47:42Z phoe: hmmm
2020-07-07T13:47:54Z Bike: uh, 10.13 i think.
2020-07-07T13:48:01Z ArthurStrong joined #lisp
2020-07-07T13:48:42Z Bike: and i think i got curl through homebrew?
2020-07-07T13:49:34Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T13:49:34Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-07T13:49:34Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T13:50:46Z Xach: Hmm, I think I see what I might be able to do.
2020-07-07T13:51:50Z ArthurStrong: Hi all!
2020-07-07T13:52:16Z phoe: heyy ArthurStrong
2020-07-07T13:52:35Z vegai: glad to see the vscode plugins + lsp working pretty well already
2020-07-07T13:52:51Z vegai: I've used emacs for a long time so going back to that would be possible
2020-07-07T13:52:57Z vegai: I'd rather not though, if there was any options :)
2020-07-07T13:53:48Z phoe: vegai: could you give me some sort of screenshots? is the REPL and incremental compilation working?
2020-07-07T13:58:31Z vegai: REPL and incremental compilation are working, yes
2020-07-07T13:58:57Z Xach: Bike: could you please try again?
2020-07-07T13:59:14Z Bike: works this time. on both systems.
2020-07-07T14:00:11Z phoe: vegai: :O
2020-07-07T14:00:20Z phoe: do you have some sort of screenshots and/or videos?
2020-07-07T14:00:58Z Xach: Bike: thank you very much
2020-07-07T14:01:12Z Bike: no problem
2020-07-07T14:01:25Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T14:01:27Z vegai: phoe: didn't this use to work? No, I don't readily have screenshots or videos
2020-07-07T14:01:35Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:01:39Z Xach: I need to compress my systems.txt and releases.txt. They are by far the biggest traffic generators for dists.
2020-07-07T14:01:45Z Xach: way more than actual archives.
2020-07-07T14:01:55Z vegai: this certainly isn't as advanced as SLIME is
2020-07-07T14:01:59Z phoe: vegai: I don't know - I never watched the CL-on-VSCode scene
2020-07-07T14:02:04Z phoe: perhaps I should
2020-07-07T14:02:08Z vegai: but is enough to get started
2020-07-07T14:02:12Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-07T14:02:50Z beach: I wonder whether that is scymtym's work.
2020-07-07T14:03:15Z beach: I know he worked on it but maybe someone else did as well.
2020-07-07T14:06:08Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:07:32Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:08:50Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:09:10Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T14:11:58Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T14:12:11Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:12:54Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-07T14:19:16Z flip214: Xach: the root certificate says valid until "18. Januar 2038, 23:59:59 GMT", perhaps that's a 31bit problem?
2020-07-07T14:20:18Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T14:21:20Z jasom quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
2020-07-07T14:25:10Z phoe: flip214: we'll worry about that in December 2037
2020-07-07T14:26:48Z flip214: phoe: no, because the certificate isn't accepted _now_
2020-07-07T14:27:26Z jackdaniel quit (Quit: brb)
2020-07-07T14:28:01Z phoe: wait a second...
2020-07-07T14:28:10Z phoe: that's the end date
2020-07-07T14:28:13Z phoe: what's the start date?
2020-07-07T14:28:44Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-07T14:28:52Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:28:54Z flip214: Xach: brotli is modern
2020-07-07T14:29:20Z flip214: phoe: May 2019
2020-07-07T14:29:34Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T14:29:56Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-07T14:29:58Z phoe: the dates seem okay then
2020-07-07T14:30:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T14:30:51Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:30:54Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:31:17Z flip214: yeah, but the arithmetic on them might be broken
2020-07-07T14:33:28Z clintm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T14:34:44Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:35:54Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:37:48Z phoe: huh, 18th Jan should still fit within Y2K38
2020-07-07T14:37:58Z leo_song quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T14:38:30Z Xach: flip214: oh, i would just stick with gzip, since i already have the code for it in the client.
2020-07-07T14:41:19Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:42:50Z flip214: Xach: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/6b51c5a0/, both with best settings (gzip -k9, brotli -kZ)
2020-07-07T14:42:52Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T14:42:57Z flip214: don't know how expensive bandwidth is for you
2020-07-07T14:43:30Z Misha_B joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:43:41Z flip214: about 20% smaller, but of course I understand the convenience of having the unpacker already available
2020-07-07T14:43:43Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T14:43:43Z madage quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T14:43:55Z Xach: flip214: that looks promising, do you have brotli decompression code in CL?
2020-07-07T14:44:04Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:44:50Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:45:33Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:45:38Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:46:46Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:47:56Z t58 joined #lisp
2020-07-07T14:48:48Z t58 left #lisp
2020-07-07T14:50:13Z flip214: Xach: use zopfli then. https://paste.debian.net/hidden/72cd504f/, decompression compatible with gzip - in fact, it creates .gz files by default.
2020-07-07T14:50:37Z flip214: still about 10% smaller than gzip.
2020-07-07T14:55:23Z flip214: JFI: I used "zopfli -c -v --i1000 < systems.txt > systems.txt.zopfli"
2020-07-07T14:57:02Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-07T15:01:46Z Archenoth quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T15:03:06Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-07T15:11:59Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T15:12:05Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-07T15:19:37Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-07T15:20:01Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-07T15:26:55Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-07T15:40:13Z ym: Do (ql:update-dist "some-package") works for everybody?
2020-07-07T15:40:56Z ym: s/Do/Does/
2020-07-07T15:42:14Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-07T15:44:49Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T15:52:11Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T15:53:38Z phoe: ym: what is "some-package"?
2020-07-07T15:53:49Z phoe: you need to put a dist designator there, not a package name
2020-07-07T15:56:30Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-07T15:57:11Z jackdaniel:  
2020-07-07T16:00:42Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-07T16:01:12Z voidlily quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T16:03:40Z ym: Oh
2020-07-07T16:04:00Z ym: Then how do I update the package?
2020-07-07T16:05:02Z beach: ym: A package is typically created by DEFPACKAGE.  Quicklisp does not deal with packages.  It deals with distributions of systems.
2020-07-07T16:05:04Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-07T16:05:18Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-07T16:06:24Z phoe: ym: where did the package come from?
2020-07-07T16:06:40Z phoe: if it came from Quicklisp, then update the "quicklisp" dist - it'll update the whole Quicklisp world
2020-07-07T16:07:10Z ym: Slime doesn't upgrades this way.
2020-07-07T16:07:16Z phoe: how did you install slime?
2020-07-07T16:07:27Z ym: (ql:quickinstall "swank")
2020-07-07T16:08:03Z ym: (ql:system-apropos "slime") shows slime-v2.24 version, but I have 2.23 and (ql:updata-all-dists) doesn't installs newer version.
2020-07-07T16:08:25Z phoe: what is ql:quickinstall
2020-07-07T16:08:29Z phoe: it's not a part of my Lisp image
2020-07-07T16:08:30Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-07T16:09:14Z ym: s/quickinstall/quickload/
2020-07-07T16:09:15Z ym: sorry
2020-07-07T16:09:37Z phoe: no, this is how you load swank
2020-07-07T16:09:41Z phoe: how did you *install* slime?
2020-07-07T16:09:54Z phoe: quicklisp-slime-helper? elpa/melpa? spacemacs?
2020-07-07T16:11:25Z ym: What do you mean by install slime? Doesn't (ql:quickload "swank") downloads slime and swank together?
2020-07-07T16:12:37Z phoe: how does your emacs load slime?
2020-07-07T16:12:48Z ym: With require in .emacs file.
2020-07-07T16:13:06Z phoe: where are the source files for your slime located?
2020-07-07T16:13:28Z ym: ~/stand/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/slime-*
2020-07-07T16:14:25Z voidlily joined #lisp
2020-07-07T16:15:14Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T16:15:29Z rogersm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T16:15:46Z ym: Oh, wait.
2020-07-07T16:15:55Z phoe: no idea then. ensure that slime is loaded from that path and not from somewhere else.
2020-07-07T16:16:01Z ym: There was slime-git in my local-projects.
2020-07-07T16:16:06Z phoe: ha!
2020-07-07T16:16:08Z ym: Sorry, my fault.
2020-07-07T16:16:16Z phoe: I fell for that thing way too many times myself
2020-07-07T16:16:26Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T16:16:27Z phoe: so, sure, I know that pain
2020-07-07T16:22:58Z hdasch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T16:24:19Z _death: there is ql:where-is-system
2020-07-07T16:25:40Z RukiSama quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T16:28:54Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-07T16:30:07Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-07T16:30:45Z ym: Sadly, it can't be used from .emacs.
2020-07-07T16:31:23Z ym: Hmm...
2020-07-07T16:32:11Z drewc quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-07T16:35:50Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T16:38:32Z drewc joined #lisp
2020-07-07T16:44:55Z ym: Strangely, sbcl --eval '(ql:where-is-system "swank")' doesn't returns the path.
2020-07-07T16:46:34Z phoe: what do you mean?
2020-07-07T16:46:40Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T16:46:46Z phoe: for me, it works - (ql:where-is-system "swank") ;=> #P"/home/phoe/.roswell/lisp/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/slime-v2.24/"
2020-07-07T16:47:39Z ym: For me it works from REPL, but doesn't from terminal.
2020-07-07T16:48:58Z cranes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T16:52:26Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-07T16:53:54Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T16:54:44Z eta quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-07T16:55:28Z _death: you need to print it
2020-07-07T16:57:31Z ym: Oh, thanks, it works.
2020-07-07T16:58:08Z eta joined #lisp
2020-07-07T16:59:31Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-07T17:01:17Z choegusung joined #lisp
2020-07-07T17:24:25Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-07T17:28:25Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T17:30:53Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T17:32:18Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-07T17:33:52Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T17:49:35Z choegusung quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-07T17:54:29Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T17:54:29Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-07T17:54:29Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:02:02Z cranes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T18:06:13Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:12:59Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T18:18:21Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:19:36Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T18:20:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:22:30Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T18:24:04Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:25:40Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T18:25:43Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:26:11Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:27:11Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:28:46Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:29:48Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T18:31:47Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-07T18:32:04Z JohnMS_WORK quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T18:32:17Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-07T18:36:02Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T18:38:39Z pve: (define-foo blah 123) <-- is this a "define-foo form" or a "define-foo expression" or something else?
2020-07-07T18:40:53Z Bike: both
2020-07-07T18:41:31Z pve: oh, cool thanks
2020-07-07T18:41:46Z pve: was afraid I had some findin' and replacin' to do
2020-07-07T18:43:21Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-07T18:43:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:52:42Z shka_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-07T18:52:51Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:54:07Z shka_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-07T18:54:16Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:56:41Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T18:59:37Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T18:59:45Z _paul0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T19:00:04Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:02:42Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T19:06:02Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:11:10Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T19:11:10Z lavaflow quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T19:11:48Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-07T19:11:56Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:14:51Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:18:01Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-07T19:18:14Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:22:52Z ym quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T19:23:13Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T19:23:47Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:24:47Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:30:28Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:31:51Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:32:19Z ym joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:33:33Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:41:43Z gxt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T19:42:10Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-07T19:42:25Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:45:39Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:46:46Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-07T19:49:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-07T19:49:18Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:49:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:50:41Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-07T19:57:00Z rogersm quit
2020-07-07T20:02:13Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-07T20:02:30Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-07T20:02:31Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T20:02:47Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-07T20:09:35Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-07T20:11:53Z frgo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T20:11:53Z frgo_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T20:12:17Z ssake joined #lisp
2020-07-07T20:19:51Z nopolitica joined #lisp
2020-07-07T20:21:18Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-07T20:32:00Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-07T20:38:51Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T20:43:24Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T20:44:10Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-07T20:57:55Z nopolitica quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-07T20:58:38Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-07T20:58:41Z |3b|: icfp contest this year ( https://icfpcontest2020.github.io/#/ ) seems to need a premade docker setup to build/run things, anyone know docker well enough to send a PR to https://github.com/icfpcontest2020/dockerfiles ?
2020-07-07T20:58:44Z bsd joined #lisp
2020-07-07T20:58:56Z bsd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T20:59:45Z phoe: |3b|: what sorta dockerfile you need? just Lisp?
2020-07-07T21:00:05Z phoe: if yes, then https://github.com/daewok/docker-sbcl/ is updated
2020-07-07T21:00:22Z |3b|: looks like it would probably want sbcl and some preinstalled ql stuff (though hard to say which ql stuff)
2020-07-07T21:01:04Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-07T21:01:33Z phoe: will it have internet connection? if yes, then just install the client
2020-07-07T21:01:55Z phoe: and swank
2020-07-07T21:01:58Z |3b|: building base docker image for a language has internet, build and run of submissions do not
2020-07-07T21:01:58Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-07T21:02:09Z phoe: huh
2020-07-07T21:02:19Z phoe: they want to filter out javascript of what
2020-07-07T21:02:21Z phoe: or what*
2020-07-07T21:03:01Z |3b|: you can include all the libs you want in submission, so don't have to put everything in the base
2020-07-07T21:03:12Z phoe: you could try to cheat the system and predownload the Quicklisp world
2020-07-07T21:03:44Z |3b|: the js example includes a bunch of stuff https://github.com/icfpcontest2020/starterkit-javascript/tree/master/app/node_modules
2020-07-07T21:04:11Z phoe: dunno then, grab the most popular quicklisp systems or something
2020-07-07T21:04:17Z phoe: hard to say ahead of time
2020-07-07T21:04:35Z dim: save-lisp-and-die at build time to the rescue, then you have a docker container with an “augmented” SBCL image  in there
2020-07-07T21:04:46Z ym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T21:04:49Z |3b|: so maybe just skip QL stuff in the base, and put it in the sample app
2020-07-07T21:04:52Z phoe: generally useful stuff like alexandria, serapeum, closer-mop, split-sequence, esrap, cl-ppcre, babel, flexi-streams, fast-io or what else
2020-07-07T21:04:56Z phoe: oooh or that
2020-07-07T21:05:06Z |3b|: yeah, probably preinstall stuff like that
2020-07-07T21:05:27Z |3b|: (sample needs enough to do an HTTP request anyway, so would probably have a bunch of those)
2020-07-07T21:06:07Z dim: drakma and all build dependencies, and the other http clients too, and puri, and html/xml parsers, and esrap, the short list isn't that short
2020-07-07T21:06:11Z phoe: oh and your favorite http clients, yes
2020-07-07T21:06:38Z dim: hell, I would use pgloader as a proxy to install many dependencies ;-)
2020-07-07T21:07:08Z dim was not a fan of having to package 60+ CL libs for debian to allow for having pgloader there
2020-07-07T21:07:16Z phoe: :D
2020-07-07T21:09:35Z |3b|: phoe: any idea if there is any benefits between daewok/docker-sbcl/ vs fukamachi/sbcl/ docker containers?
2020-07-07T21:10:10Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T21:11:06Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T21:11:28Z quazimodo quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-07T21:11:47Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-07T21:12:14Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-07T21:12:34Z phoe: |3b|: no idea
2020-07-07T21:12:38Z |3b|: looks like latter might have roswell/ql already installed, former might have more choice of OS/arch (not sure that matters for this though)
2020-07-07T21:12:46Z phoe: other than for my natural distrust for fukamachiware
2020-07-07T21:12:57Z |3b|: :)
2020-07-07T21:12:58Z dim: one thing I would try with them is doing some SSL stuff or other things you might want to do that require loading a .so file ; it's surprisingly non trivial to make that work reliably, and you certainly want that solved in the docker container
2020-07-07T21:16:42Z BACKQUOTED-LIST joined #lisp
2020-07-07T21:16:59Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: has anybody here ever used lisp tkinter?
2020-07-07T21:18:49Z phoe: what's tkinter?
2020-07-07T21:19:11Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: toolkit for gui
2020-07-07T21:19:35Z phoe: it seems to be a Python thing
2020-07-07T21:20:35Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: theres tkinter for common lisp tho
2020-07-07T21:21:15Z phoe: link?
2020-07-07T21:21:26Z RukiSama joined #lisp
2020-07-07T21:21:47Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: ok
2020-07-07T21:21:52Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: give me a sec
2020-07-07T21:22:28Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: http://www.peter-herth.de/ltk/
2020-07-07T21:22:31Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: here it is
2020-07-07T21:23:08Z |3b| tried used ltk one, but doesn't really remember anything about it
2020-07-07T21:23:44Z |3b|: and ltk is a cl alternative to tkinter, not really tkinter for cl :)
2020-07-07T21:23:48Z phoe: that's from 2011
2020-07-07T21:23:52Z phoe: the updated version seems to be at https://github.com/herth/ltk
2020-07-07T21:23:58Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: oh
2020-07-07T21:23:59Z |3b|: both are interfaces to tcl/tk
2020-07-07T21:24:05Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: yeah
2020-07-07T21:27:13Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: oh just figured out my problem
2020-07-07T21:27:24Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: guess i didnt need to ask
2020-07-07T21:27:28Z BACKQUOTED-LIST: sorry if i wasted time
2020-07-07T21:27:30Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-07T21:27:33Z BACKQUOTED-LIST quit (Quit: Given the choice between you, I'll take the sea-sick crocodile.)
2020-07-07T21:27:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-07T21:28:46Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T21:31:25Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T21:32:25Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-07T21:33:29Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-07T21:40:32Z phoe: and off he goes
2020-07-07T21:40:45Z phoe: wanted to tell him that things like that happen, but oh well
2020-07-07T21:41:22Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-07T21:50:17Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T21:50:41Z alejandrozf joined #lisp
2020-07-07T21:56:38Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T21:57:00Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-07T21:57:05Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-07T21:58:28Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T22:00:07Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:06:54Z justache quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T22:08:25Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:09:06Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:09:55Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:10:10Z alejandrozf quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T22:13:34Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:15:26Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T22:17:08Z OpenZen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T22:22:11Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:25:04Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:25:51Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:35:13Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-07T22:35:19Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:36:46Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:38:00Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:38:00Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-07T22:38:39Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:38:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:44:27Z jlpeters quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:44:34Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-07T22:44:47Z CEnnis91 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:45:08Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-07T22:47:07Z physpi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:47:11Z Kaisyu quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:47:12Z pent quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:47:12Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:47:49Z lukego quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:47:49Z gjnoonan quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:48:02Z avicenna quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:48:15Z jlpeters joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:48:36Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:48:36Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-07T22:48:36Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-07T22:48:38Z dnm quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:49:41Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-07T22:49:47Z chewbranca quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:49:47Z bytesighs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:49:59Z fowlduck quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:49:59Z rvirding quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:00Z selwyn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:07Z mpontillo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:16Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:18Z XachX quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:22Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:41Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:41Z Balooga quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:42Z sgithens quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:42Z drmeister quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:42Z jsatk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:42Z vutral quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:42Z tazjin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:52Z RagnarDanneskjol quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:57Z mjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:57Z yottabyte quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:50:58Z lispyone_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:07Z p_l quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:07Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:17Z entel quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:19Z tfb quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:23Z parisienne___ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:24Z terrorjack quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:24Z ffwacom quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:26Z l1x quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:27Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:33Z jerme_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:41Z boeg quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:52Z kilimanjaro quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:57Z asedeno quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:57Z gaze__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:57Z mgsk quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:51:57Z banjiewen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:52:08Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:52:08Z splittist quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:52:08Z sz0 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:52:08Z teej_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:52:26Z ssd532 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:52:27Z jhei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:52:28Z johs quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:52:28Z conjunctive quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:52:28Z stylewarning quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:52:42Z jlpeters quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-07T22:59:16Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-07T23:06:42Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-07T23:07:11Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-07T23:09:16Z Harag: |3b|: if you want to see simple docker for lisp with plenty on notes on what and why, I did these https://gitlab.com/Harag/simple-sbcl-swank-docker and https://gitlab.com/Harag/sbcl-gcloud-run-workaround
2020-07-07T23:15:33Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-07T23:41:01Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-07T23:58:40Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T00:05:07Z nopolitica joined #lisp
2020-07-08T00:11:30Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T00:14:25Z nopolitica quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-08T00:30:04Z |3b|: ok, possibly figured out the docker stuff enough to send a pr https://github.com/icfpcontest2020/dockerfiles/pull/44 :)
2020-07-08T00:31:35Z |3b|: let me know if anyone sees anything obviously wrong, or suggestions for other C/CL libs worth including by default (went ahead and added some common ones to reduce build time, but people can overwrite parts of the ql dir with one in their submission for full control)
2020-07-08T00:38:15Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-08T00:38:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-08T00:39:20Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T00:39:56Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T00:46:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T00:47:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-08T01:04:46Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T01:07:39Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-08T01:38:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T01:38:53Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T01:39:36Z mindCrime quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-08T01:43:09Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T01:48:22Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T01:51:47Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T02:06:10Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-08T02:11:38Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-08T02:12:52Z lansiir quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T02:14:37Z oldtopman joined #lisp
2020-07-08T02:15:27Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-08T02:20:04Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-08T02:43:46Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-08T02:44:43Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-08T02:45:15Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-08T02:51:17Z ckonstanski joined #lisp
2020-07-08T02:52:20Z catern quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-08T02:52:46Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-08T02:54:42Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T03:05:39Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-08T03:06:57Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T03:19:12Z Oladon: I find myself needing to write a new combination Markdown (probably Commonmark?) + BBCode parser. What's the best approach, architecture/organization-wise, to ensure maximum utility for others while still attaining my aim of a combination parser?
2020-07-08T03:24:38Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-08T03:24:44Z Oladon: Morning, beach!
2020-07-08T03:24:46Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-08T03:25:31Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T03:26:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-08T03:35:05Z akoana quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-08T03:48:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T03:48:45Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T03:50:43Z madage quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-08T04:03:58Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-08T04:07:25Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-08T04:12:49Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-08T04:12:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-08T04:14:10Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T04:17:02Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T04:24:27Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T04:31:53Z gjulio__: morning beach
2020-07-08T04:32:53Z gjulio__: Hey is anyone willing to share a snippet of a .gitattributes file for handling control-m line endings in a *.lisp file? I've been trying a million tactics and I can't seem to resolve the problem.
2020-07-08T04:39:07Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-08T04:49:59Z cyberbanjo_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T04:55:19Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-08T04:55:57Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T04:56:08Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T04:56:10Z beach: gjulio__: I suspect few people here have that problem.
2020-07-08T04:56:56Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T05:03:48Z gjulio__: i solved it. added *.lisp text eol=crlf to .gitattributes. then added (add-hook 'before-save-hook 'delete-trailing-whitespace) to .emacs and then created new files, moved my lisp file to the new file, added the new file to my git repo, and now it's working. it seems like the *.lisp text eol=crlf stuff isn't retroactive. maybe i'm wrong?
2020-07-08T05:03:53Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T05:05:02Z fe[nl]ix: I conform it's not retroactive
2020-07-08T05:05:09Z fe[nl]ix: are you using Windows ?
2020-07-08T05:05:28Z gjulio__: linux
2020-07-08T05:06:13Z fe[nl]ix: then what do you need that for ?
2020-07-08T05:07:23Z gjulio__: what do i need what for?
2020-07-08T05:08:29Z dvdmuckle quit (Quit: Bouncer Surgery)
2020-07-08T05:08:54Z beach: Why do you have CR characters in your files?
2020-07-08T05:11:03Z gjulio__: not sure. i did edit parts of the file on a different computer that was windows, maybe it's from that?
2020-07-08T05:11:40Z dvdmuckle joined #lisp
2020-07-08T05:12:07Z beach: Very likely.
2020-07-08T05:12:57Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-08T05:13:38Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-08T05:13:57Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T05:19:46Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T05:20:36Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-08T05:21:31Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-08T05:24:20Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-08T05:25:49Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-08T05:26:01Z Oladon quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-08T05:37:59Z shangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T05:38:26Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-08T05:39:14Z fe[nl]ix: gjulio__: convert all CRLF line endings to LF and configure your Windows editors to use LF as well
2020-07-08T05:40:16Z gjulio__: thanks. i'm usually using linux, but i'll keep that in mind if i need to switch back.
2020-07-08T05:50:51Z JohnMS_WORK joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:15:00Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:23:58Z shka_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T06:24:08Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:25:00Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:25:00Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-08T06:25:00Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:26:02Z shka_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T06:26:12Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:26:45Z polaris joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:26:49Z shka_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-08T06:30:18Z easye quit (Quit: rebooting)
2020-07-08T06:31:39Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:31:48Z PuercoPop quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2020-07-08T06:32:00Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:40:05Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:43:16Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-08T06:45:36Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:48:13Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-08T06:50:32Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:53:06Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:53:46Z freshpassport quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-07-08T06:53:56Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T06:54:03Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:54:15Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T06:54:58Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-08T06:55:58Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T07:06:38Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T07:09:07Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:11:31Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T07:11:51Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:12:36Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:13:30Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T07:14:32Z easye quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91))
2020-07-08T07:14:44Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T07:14:54Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:15:00Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:15:11Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T07:15:51Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:17:58Z polaris quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T07:19:00Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:19:48Z ljavorsk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T07:23:30Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:29:04Z Cymew joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:33:48Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T07:34:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:34:50Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:43:36Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T07:44:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:45:50Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-08T07:46:54Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:48:08Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-08T07:48:45Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:48:58Z tich joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:58:10Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T07:58:52Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T07:59:14Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-08T08:12:20Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T08:23:56Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T08:24:17Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T08:26:11Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T08:26:21Z refpga quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T08:36:14Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T08:40:05Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T08:42:42Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T08:45:39Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-08T08:48:46Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T08:49:03Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T08:55:22Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-08T08:57:12Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-08T08:57:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T08:57:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-08T08:58:16Z TMA quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T09:04:18Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-08T09:04:36Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T09:04:47Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:05:22Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:05:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T09:06:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:11:26Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:12:58Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T09:15:25Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T09:15:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:17:03Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T09:19:11Z TMA joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:19:19Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:25:08Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:28:08Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:37:08Z clintm joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:39:38Z clintm: Xach: in case it hasn't been reported, xach.com/clhs is broken. :(
2020-07-08T09:42:07Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:45:16Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T09:46:21Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:47:47Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:48:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T09:48:47Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:52:47Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:54:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T09:57:46Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T09:58:19Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-08T09:59:16Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T10:06:02Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T10:09:01Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-08T10:09:22Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T10:11:14Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-08T10:12:31Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-08T10:13:35Z vegai: i
2020-07-08T10:18:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T10:19:28Z rgherdt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T10:20:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-08T10:21:40Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-08T10:30:47Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-08T10:37:38Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T10:39:44Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T10:39:44Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-08T10:41:08Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-08T10:42:12Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-08T10:47:37Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-08T10:52:28Z stepnem quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T10:54:48Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-08T10:56:06Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-08T10:59:21Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T11:06:01Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-08T11:27:28Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T11:43:20Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-08T11:43:28Z phoe: aeth: boop
2020-07-08T11:43:40Z phoe: have you managed to upload your typechecked slots somewhere?
2020-07-08T11:43:51Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-08T11:46:34Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T11:49:10Z devrtz_ quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-07-08T11:50:35Z devrtz joined #lisp
2020-07-08T11:57:17Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T12:12:09Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:13:21Z jasom joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:15:28Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:17:09Z jmercouris joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:23:08Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:26:01Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-08T12:28:43Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T12:30:21Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:32:45Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T12:39:02Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:40:21Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:41:00Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:41:20Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T12:41:43Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:50:41Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-08T12:53:30Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T12:54:54Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T12:57:28Z Xach: clintm: yoinks
2020-07-08T12:58:09Z Xach: ha
2020-07-08T12:59:34Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-08T13:02:28Z kmeow joined #lisp
2020-07-08T13:06:45Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T13:09:22Z freshpassport quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-08T13:15:11Z aeth: phoe: Not yet
2020-07-08T13:15:36Z aeth: hopefully at some point this week
2020-07-08T13:19:34Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-08T13:23:42Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T13:24:13Z jmercouris quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T13:32:54Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T13:33:16Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T13:34:22Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T13:35:41Z dominic35 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T13:36:26Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-08T13:36:58Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T13:36:59Z dominic35 is now known as dominic34
2020-07-08T13:37:59Z jcowan joined #lisp
2020-07-08T13:38:46Z pfdietz joined #lisp
2020-07-08T13:40:08Z jcowan: What are the most common use cases for the syntaxes #n= and #n#, as opposed to the data structures they represent?  Is it genuinely common to serialize such things as S-exprssions?
2020-07-08T13:40:34Z beach: I use it all the time.
2020-07-08T13:40:52Z jackdaniel: jcowan: (if (foobar xxx) (some-obsucring-macro-boo #1=(actual-form)) #1#)
2020-07-08T13:40:57Z beach: For example, if I have an application with some internal structured data, I use it as a format on disk.
2020-07-08T13:41:36Z jcowan: beach: thanks.  jackdaniel: I didn't mean in code, but that usage is new to me, so I'm glad to see it.
2020-07-08T13:41:37Z beach: jcowan: Recently, the ASTs produced by the SICL compiler are saved like that, thereby producing FASL files .
2020-07-08T13:43:06Z jackdaniel: heh
2020-07-08T13:43:31Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-08T13:51:27Z pfdietz: I usually just do that with flet.
2020-07-08T13:51:34Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T13:51:40Z pfdietz: I usually just do that with flet.
2020-07-08T13:51:48Z pfdietz: oops
2020-07-08T13:52:12Z phoe: #1=I usually just do that with flet.
2020-07-08T13:52:15Z phoe: #1#
2020-07-08T13:52:21Z phoe: should have looked like that I guess
2020-07-08T13:52:25Z jackdaniel: (flet ((do-it () "I usually just do that with flet")) (do-it) (do-it))
2020-07-08T13:52:39Z pfdietz: Totally intentional!   #save
2020-07-08T13:52:42Z beach: jcowan: Here is an example.  It is the AST for (defclass t () (:metaclass built-in-class)): http://metamodular.com/SICL/t-defclass.fasl.
2020-07-08T13:54:14Z beach: As you can see the vector for the source code is shared as #2= for instance.
2020-07-08T13:54:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-08T13:56:26Z pfdietz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T13:58:34Z beach: http://metamodular.com/bach262.gsh is an example of a score saved from Gsharp.
2020-07-08T13:59:20Z beach: As you can see, the staves are shared by many objects, like notes.
2020-07-08T14:00:53Z beach: In both cases, I use the character `[' as a reader macro.  It takes a name of a class and a bunch of initargs, just like the protocol dictates.
2020-07-08T14:01:00Z phoe: but all that's just a fancy pretty-printed S-expression with *print-circle* being true
2020-07-08T14:01:05Z phoe: very nice!
2020-07-08T14:01:17Z beach: Thanks.  Yes, very simple.
2020-07-08T14:01:26Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:01:27Z phoe: I assume [ makes instances at read-time
2020-07-08T14:01:55Z beach: Yes, [ is (apply #'make-instance (read-delimited-list....))
2020-07-08T14:03:07Z beach: It creates a structure that is entirely isomorphic to the original one that was saved.
2020-07-08T14:03:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T14:04:19Z voidlily_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:04:46Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T14:05:04Z voidlily quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T14:05:51Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:08:10Z beach: Notice that no slots are mentioned.  Only protocol elements.
2020-07-08T14:09:39Z phoe: you mean initargs, right?
2020-07-08T14:10:00Z beach: And the class name, yes.
2020-07-08T14:10:10Z phoe: how do you map concrete classes to protocol classes? I assume that GSHARP-BUFFER:BUFFER is a protocol class
2020-07-08T14:10:24Z beach: It's a concrete class.
2020-07-08T14:10:33Z phoe: oh! okay then, that solves one problem
2020-07-08T14:11:40Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:11:44Z JohnMS_WORK quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2020-07-08T14:11:58Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T14:12:07Z _death: how does it deal with cyclic graphs?
2020-07-08T14:12:30Z beach: With #n= and #n# which was the original question.
2020-07-08T14:12:33Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-08T14:13:59Z _death: beach: these can't create forward references
2020-07-08T14:14:21Z beach: ?
2020-07-08T14:14:47Z beach: The first time an object is printed, it is printed normally, preceded by #n=.
2020-07-08T14:14:51Z phoe: you don't need forward references
2020-07-08T14:15:03Z _death: for example, (defstruct link parent child) the parent link has to refer to the child
2020-07-08T14:15:48Z phoe: #1=[LINK :parent nil :child [LINK :parent #1# :child nil]]
2020-07-08T14:15:55Z _death: you do need forward references for cyclic graphs.. this is the same issue that CL designers solved in make-load-form by having it return a creation form and an initialization form
2020-07-08T14:16:12Z phoe: oh, like *that*
2020-07-08T14:16:16Z phoe: clhs make-load-form
2020-07-08T14:16:16Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_ld_.htm
2020-07-08T14:17:13Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T14:17:32Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:17:35Z phoe: I guess that this is because multiple MAKE-LOAD-FORMs do not necessarily depend on the slots of one another, whereas the above is just one big ball of cyclic references printed as a whole
2020-07-08T14:17:54Z beach: _death: I am not sure I follow.  Try '#1=(a .#1#) at the REPL.
2020-07-08T14:17:58Z phoe: and also because the above utilizes the reader
2020-07-08T14:18:24Z phoe: whereas MAKE-LOAD-FORM must return a Lisp form, which is already post-READ
2020-07-08T14:19:27Z beach: _death: The reader patches the graph after it has been read.
2020-07-08T14:20:40Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:21:38Z beach: So when it sees #1#, it sticks in some unique temporary object, and enters the correspondence in a table.  Then when the entire expression (in this case a single CONS cell) has been read, the graph is traversed, and the temporary object is replaced by what was returned as #1=.
2020-07-08T14:24:05Z beach: _death: Hello?  Did you faint?
2020-07-08T14:24:11Z aeth: jcowan: One use is when *print-circle*. A useless example: https://gitlab.com/snippets/1761668
2020-07-08T14:24:13Z _death: I'm just thinking it through
2020-07-08T14:24:18Z beach: Ah, OK.
2020-07-08T14:24:39Z _death: I know about the reader syntax.. but as you say it needs to patch things
2020-07-08T14:24:52Z beach: Absolutely.
2020-07-08T14:24:56Z beach: And it does.
2020-07-08T14:25:48Z pfdietz joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:26:04Z _death: so while the form looks like it supplies initargs, it's actually patching the slots?
2020-07-08T14:26:18Z beach: I guess this feature (and its power) is little known, hence the question from jcowan.  I think it is fantastic and, like I said, I use it all the time.
2020-07-08T14:26:31Z phoe: not the slots I guess
2020-07-08T14:26:39Z phoe: the lists that are being read
2020-07-08T14:26:58Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:27:07Z phoe: and once the list is fully read and patched, APPLY #'MAKE-INSTANCE is called on it
2020-07-08T14:27:10Z phoe: that's how I understand it
2020-07-08T14:27:27Z beach: _death: In my examples, if it sees :some-initarg #n#, it is replaced by :some-initarg <unique>
2020-07-08T14:28:02Z beach: _death: Then, if it turns out that :some-initarg stores <unique> in a slot, then it is patched later.
2020-07-08T14:28:11Z _death: I see
2020-07-08T14:28:15Z phoe: and I assume that all of this patching is done by the reader on the lists, before any MAKE-INSTANCE is even called
2020-07-08T14:28:27Z TMA: unless #n# is encountered before #n=, there is no need to patch if you can construct the object in some incomplete state (the state between allocate-instance and initialize-instance)
2020-07-08T14:28:43Z beach: phoe: Why do you assume that?
2020-07-08T14:28:47Z Bike: TMA: but the reader doesn't know how to do that.
2020-07-08T14:29:20Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:29:29Z jackdaniel: had there been instances to be serialized, then the reader macro [ wouldn't make sense
2020-07-08T14:29:47Z phoe: beach: you said, "[ is (apply #'make-instance (read-delimited-list....))"
2020-07-08T14:29:55Z jackdaniel: and there is no need to define a method on make-load-form on simple objects, like 3 or :staff
2020-07-08T14:30:04Z phoe: this means that READ-DELIMITED-LIST must finish operating before MAKE-INSTANCE is called
2020-07-08T14:30:06Z beach: phoe: Yes, and the patching is done on the created instance.
2020-07-08T14:30:07Z kmeow quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T14:30:12Z beach: Oh, sure.
2020-07-08T14:30:20Z beach: But no patching takes place then.
2020-07-08T14:30:35Z phoe: which means that the reading (including the patching!) must be complete before MAKE-INSTANCE is called
2020-07-08T14:30:49Z beach: Why do you make that conclusion?
2020-07-08T14:30:53Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T14:31:11Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:31:19Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:31:22Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:31:57Z jcowan: beach: _death is correct, 2.4.8.16 explicitly forbids forward references with #n#, so no patching is necessary.
2020-07-08T14:32:08Z Bike: reading a standard-object with circular references in it isn't much different from reading a vector with em
2020-07-08T14:32:11Z phoe: because #1= must happen before #1# - if the reader stores the EQ references in some sort of read-time hash table, it can then directly look up the object and insert it there
2020-07-08T14:32:20Z phoe: clhs 2.4.8.16
2020-07-08T14:32:20Z specbot: Sharpsign Sharpsign: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhp.htm
2020-07-08T14:32:29Z beach: phoe: Suppose I have #1=[MY-CLASS :stuff #1#]
2020-07-08T14:33:04Z phoe: oooh. that's no list.
2020-07-08T14:33:19Z phoe: that's a standard object with an initarg.
2020-07-08T14:33:33Z phoe: you can't have an instance before calling MAKE-INSTANCE so there is nothing to insert there.
2020-07-08T14:33:37Z phoe: right, I see it now.
2020-07-08T14:33:53Z beach: phoe: First (my-class :stuff #1#) is read, but since we don't know #1#, we replace it with <mumble> and then we call (make-instance 'my-class :stuff <mumble>)
2020-07-08T14:34:18Z beach: phoe: Then the result of that creation is assigned to #1=.
2020-07-08T14:34:39Z beach: Finally, we traverse the graph, find that some instance of my-class has <mumble> in it.
2020-07-08T14:34:54Z beach: So we replace that occurrence with the intance.
2020-07-08T14:34:56Z beach: instance.
2020-07-08T14:35:17Z beach: phoe: Is that clear now?
2020-07-08T14:35:19Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T14:35:29Z jcowan: I'm talking only about what has to happen at read time.
2020-07-08T14:35:59Z beach: jcowan: That is precisely what we have been showing in detail.
2020-07-08T14:36:01Z phoe: beach: yes, that's clear now. Thanks.
2020-07-08T14:36:02Z jcowan:  #1=[MY-CLASS :stuff #1#] is not readable.
2020-07-08T14:36:08Z beach: Sure it is.
2020-07-08T14:36:13Z beach: That's how I read it.
2020-07-08T14:36:46Z beach: Like I said, [ is a reader macro that does (apply #'make-instance (read-delimited-list ...))
2020-07-08T14:36:47Z _death: beach: but why use make-instance and not allocate-instance then?
2020-07-08T14:36:56Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:37:06Z beach: Why would I do that?
2020-07-08T14:37:09Z jcowan: Sorry, I missed that about [
2020-07-08T14:37:21Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:37:34Z _death: beach: well, what is <mumble>? if the slot has a :type integer it must be an integer or a special value indicated that the slot is unbound
2020-07-08T14:37:41Z _death: *indicating
2020-07-08T14:37:56Z ayuce quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T14:37:57Z beach: _death: I am sure that type checking is disabled during reading.
2020-07-08T14:38:24Z beach: Or maybe it uses an instance of the type that the slot has, if it is a slot.
2020-07-08T14:39:09Z beach: If the slot is unbound, then obviously it does not need patching.
2020-07-08T14:39:10Z Bike: this same problem comes up with the #s reader, which is standard.
2020-07-08T14:39:13Z _death: beach: ok.. an alternative design would be to use the two forms from make-load-form..
2020-07-08T14:39:28Z beach: _death: An alternative design for what?
2020-07-08T14:40:12Z _death: for the external format exemplified by the .gsh file
2020-07-08T14:40:39Z beach: Why would I make life harder for myself?  The reader can already do this.
2020-07-08T14:40:59Z beach: I would have to traverse the graph myself then.
2020-07-08T14:41:14Z beach: Now, I just do (PRINT ...)
2020-07-08T14:42:09Z _death: but do you just READ?.. you said that the slots need patching afterwards
2020-07-08T14:42:22Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T14:42:27Z Bike: that's the standard ## macro stuff, beach doesn't have to write it
2020-07-08T14:42:31Z beach: READ patches automatically.
2020-07-08T14:42:50Z beach: _death: I just do (READ).
2020-07-08T14:43:01Z catern quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-08T14:43:02Z _death: I guess because you defined the #\[ reader macro
2020-07-08T14:43:20Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:43:24Z beach: That's so that I can print standard objects.
2020-07-08T14:43:40Z _death: right.. in a readable way
2020-07-08T14:43:58Z beach: Yes, it would be foolish to do otherwise. :)
2020-07-08T14:44:22Z nikkal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T14:46:02Z beach: For each class, I also have to give pairs :initarg reader corresponding to the protocol that the class respects.
2020-07-08T14:47:31Z _death: the analogue of make-load-form-saving-slots?
2020-07-08T14:48:08Z beach: Probably not quite.  There are no slots mentioned here.
2020-07-08T14:49:00Z beach: I can have a class with a slot AGE but produce initargs :DATE-OF-BIRTH DATE-OF-BIRTH.
2020-07-08T14:49:35Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:50:23Z _death: right, so you do that on the level of initargs
2020-07-08T14:50:26Z beach: And, also, if I were to use make-load-form... I would have to LOAD the file, right?
2020-07-08T14:50:52Z _death: yes, you'd need to evaluate the forms
2020-07-08T14:51:00Z beach: That's very dangerous.
2020-07-08T14:51:10Z _death: READing is also dangerous :)
2020-07-08T14:51:17Z beach: Why?
2020-07-08T14:51:23Z beach: I obviously disable #.
2020-07-08T14:51:26Z phoe: _death: so is loading FASLs
2020-07-08T14:51:31Z Bike: make-instance has arbitrary behavior, so it's going ot be dangerous
2020-07-08T14:52:35Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:52:44Z beach: _death: The initarg and the reader are part of the protocol and I want the saved file to create a graph using the protocol.  That way, I can change the physical structure between save and load.
2020-07-08T14:52:58Z _death: I guess READing is dangerous because you don't have that much control over the reader
2020-07-08T14:53:16Z Bike: you don't have much control over the loader either. i don't understand the debate here
2020-07-08T14:53:36Z Bike: you can easily get arbitrary code evaluated either way
2020-07-08T14:53:49Z Bike: i mean there's no way to allocate an instance without calling allocate-instance, which can have whatever user methods
2020-07-08T14:54:01Z beach: Bike: How would you do that with make-instance?
2020-07-08T14:54:25Z beach: Bike: If I don't allow external code to be loaded, how do those method come into existence?
2020-07-08T14:54:35Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:54:45Z Bike: well that sounds more like you can't execute arbitrary code either way
2020-07-08T14:54:55Z _death: I mean dangerous in that it there are arbitrary limits you can't control when invoking the reader
2020-07-08T14:55:28Z beach: Whatever.  I think I am too tired for this.
2020-07-08T14:56:29Z _death: for example the length and depth of lists, symbol names, magnitudes of numbers, etc.
2020-07-08T14:57:07Z beach: Yeah, I should have used make-load-form instead.  My bad.  Sorry.
2020-07-08T14:57:12Z _death: no
2020-07-08T14:57:20Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-08T14:57:33Z phoe: _death: I assume that the FASL files are trusted and don't contain hostile data
2020-07-08T14:57:48Z beach: This kind of exchange makes me upset, so I'll quit now.
2020-07-08T14:57:57Z phoe: such as a class name that is ten gigabytes long
2020-07-08T14:58:02Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T14:58:11Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-08T14:58:15Z Bike: you're arguing about which of two standard mechanisms to use and both of thos emechanisms are chock full of hooks to do arbitrary things at arbitrary times, so you have to control what files are being loaded or something. both can deal with circular structures and custom object definitions.
2020-07-08T14:58:25Z _death: beach: this is unrelated to the make-load-form remarks.. I'm just saying READ is "dangerous" too :).. I did not mean to say that the make-load-form design is better or anything, just tried to understand this format
2020-07-08T14:58:37Z beach: I don't care anymore.
2020-07-08T14:58:52Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:00:19Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:03:45Z tich quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T15:04:09Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:05:01Z theseb: What is easiest way to implement *global variables* in a common lisp like implementation I wrote?
2020-07-08T15:05:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T15:05:23Z theseb: What I mean is....I want to set x in a function and then have value OUTSIDE the function be modified
2020-07-08T15:05:25Z theseb: possible?
2020-07-08T15:06:02Z theseb: e.g.   x = 3 ; set x = 4 in f(x) ; print x outside of f and get 4
2020-07-08T15:06:55Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-08T15:07:51Z beach: theseb: Most existing Common Lisp implementations have a slot in the symbol.
2020-07-08T15:08:51Z phoe: alternatively you can make some sort of global hashtable whose keys are symbols and whose values are variable values
2020-07-08T15:09:06Z beach: theseb: Not that I know how your implementation works.  I am just telling you what is usually done.
2020-07-08T15:10:02Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:10:13Z beach: theseb: The advantage of the symbol slot is that the symbol becomes available to the program at read time, so it is just an indirection to set the value.
2020-07-08T15:10:42Z beach: theseb: The hash table solution is slower, because you need, well, a hash-table access for each operation.
2020-07-08T15:11:00Z theseb: phoe: if a global table sets variable x to equal variable y...what do you do next? i'm intrigued
2020-07-08T15:11:21Z beach: theseb: Common Lisp doesn't work the way you may think.
2020-07-08T15:11:22Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T15:11:33Z beach: Assigning doesn't create a link between variables.
2020-07-08T15:11:45Z beach: The value of one is accessed and then given to the other.
2020-07-08T15:11:54Z beach: Just like any programming language.
2020-07-08T15:11:55Z rgherdt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T15:12:18Z phoe: theseb: (defvar *x* 42) (defvar *y* *x*)
2020-07-08T15:12:25Z phoe: *y* is 42
2020-07-08T15:12:33Z theseb: phoe: yes
2020-07-08T15:12:35Z phoe: don't know what you expect
2020-07-08T15:12:47Z phoe: (setf *x* 24)
2020-07-08T15:12:52Z phoe: *x* is 24, *y* is 42
2020-07-08T15:12:56Z theseb: phoe: right
2020-07-08T15:13:03Z phoe: same if you use a hash table
2020-07-08T15:13:05Z jcowan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T15:13:07Z Bike: so what does your "I'm intrigued" comment mean.
2020-07-08T15:13:10Z Bike: what is intriguing
2020-07-08T15:13:26Z theseb: phoe: i understand all that but how will that help me modify *x* or *y* in a function f?
2020-07-08T15:13:33Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:13:39Z Bike: the function modifies the hash table.
2020-07-08T15:13:41Z phoe: you grab the symbol itself and use it as a key to the hash table
2020-07-08T15:13:52Z theseb: Bike: intriguing because slots sounded complicated but variable setting is something i can do and understand
2020-07-08T15:13:54Z phoe: that's how you can modify the hash table
2020-07-08T15:14:21Z Bike: i don't think any of these implementations of global variables is very complicated. neither is the sicl one
2020-07-08T15:14:50Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:14:52Z Bike: it does get complicated when you start having local specials and thread locality, but for globals, whatever
2020-07-08T15:15:40Z nicktick quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-08T15:16:17Z beach: I am guessing that theseb doesn't know how to get the symbol into the executable code.
2020-07-08T15:16:28Z phoe: just quote it
2020-07-08T15:16:38Z beach: phoe: This is not Common Lisp.
2020-07-08T15:16:39Z phoe: ...if your language has a quote
2020-07-08T15:16:48Z theseb: Bike: to give you context.....the reason this came up is i'm implementing a print function by appending to a global variable called output
2020-07-08T15:17:07Z theseb: i.e. when you "print" you store strings in a list called the output list
2020-07-08T15:17:08Z beach: But then, it all depends on the implementation, and I suspect it is very different from the way Common Lisp and indeed other languages as well, are implemented.
2020-07-08T15:17:35Z theseb: I was having trouble modifying this output list in some places
2020-07-08T15:18:22Z theseb: errr i could modify it anywhere I wanted but the changes would disappear once I left a scope ;)
2020-07-08T15:18:54Z ArthurStrong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-08T15:18:55Z Bike: i don't think the context matters. it's pretty simple. you have a persistent hash table and you modify that table
2020-07-08T15:19:04Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-08T15:19:14Z Bike: i have no idea what your language targets or anything. maybe it's not image based. in that case you'd be really far off topic for this channel
2020-07-08T15:20:10Z beach: theseb: Your questions are essentially about how to implement a programming language.  That is really too general for #lisp.  If you want to know how to implement Common Lisp, we can help you with that, but it is nearly impossible for us to debug a problem in your own implementation of a language that is not Common Lisp.
2020-07-08T15:20:37Z beach: And a very special implementation too, it seems.
2020-07-08T15:20:40Z theseb: my language is basically what SICP says
2020-07-08T15:21:04Z pfdietz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T15:21:12Z phoe: then you could use the knowledge SICP provides about environments
2020-07-08T15:21:23Z beach: theseb: Do you have READ?
2020-07-08T15:21:31Z Bike: sicp probably uses alists. same principle.
2020-07-08T15:22:58Z theseb: What do you think of this...I'm going to open source a project called "Program To Processor"....you start with a minimal Python variant called Snake and convert to AST...then convert the AST to a minimal intermediate Lisp code...then to a simple virtual processor...All the parts are written in python for easy reading
2020-07-08T15:23:23Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:23:26Z theseb: So basically the entire stack and all code in all layers will be accessible and understandable in python
2020-07-08T15:23:36Z Bike: i mean i like lisp better than python, which is why i'm in the lisp channel and not the python channel.
2020-07-08T15:23:39Z theseb: so my little lisp thing is the executable intermediate code layer
2020-07-08T15:23:42Z nikkal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T15:23:51Z theseb: I need to have it as simple as possible so students can grok whole thing
2020-07-08T15:24:10Z beach: It sounds complicated already.
2020-07-08T15:24:13Z theseb: Bike: i see part of this project as a way to introduce Lisp as well
2020-07-08T15:24:27Z jackdaniel: python with all its arbitrary syntactic rules (and oh my god spaces) is not easy to read, at most it is easy to evangelise as easy to read :)
2020-07-08T15:24:29Z Bike: you can teach in lisp. that's what sicp is, after all.
2020-07-08T15:24:30Z theseb: Bike: "Oh wow that intermediate language is really cool and elegant!"
2020-07-08T15:24:41Z theseb: "i want to learn more about this lisp thing"
2020-07-08T15:25:00Z theseb: "Is is like a lean slimmed down python!"
2020-07-08T15:25:22Z Bike left #lisp
2020-07-08T15:25:39Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T15:26:16Z jackdaniel: I think that this is as far from Common Lisp as one could get having parenthesis involved
2020-07-08T15:27:16Z theseb: jackdaniel: ;)
2020-07-08T15:27:21Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:27:40Z joels: There's always value in spreading some lisp in areas where there is none
2020-07-08T15:27:42Z jackdaniel: and by saying taht I meant that this is offtopic on this channel
2020-07-08T15:28:26Z theseb: jackdaniel: i guess i'm becoming the black sheep of the channel
2020-07-08T15:29:10Z beach: theseb: You are asking impossible questions, and you don't understand the recommendations, so it is very frustrating.
2020-07-08T15:31:52Z theseb: beach: sorry i'm slow....i think i understand why a hashtable is the answer now....if you modify e.g. x=4 in a function those changes will disappear when you leave scope but if x = more complex object like a hash table then changes will survive when you leave scope....is that it?
2020-07-08T15:32:06Z phoe: wait a second
2020-07-08T15:32:09Z phoe: X is a global variable
2020-07-08T15:32:12Z phoe: so it will never go out of scope
2020-07-08T15:32:22Z phoe: so scopes are totally irrelevant
2020-07-08T15:32:43Z beach: theseb: x is not a hash table.  It is a symbol, and it is used as a key in a hash table.
2020-07-08T15:32:57Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-08T15:32:57Z beach: That's an example of what I was just saying.
2020-07-08T15:33:02Z theseb: beach: oh you pass in the *key* to the function
2020-07-08T15:33:18Z phoe: yes, that's what I said twenty minutes ago
2020-07-08T15:33:21Z phoe: 17:13 < phoe> you grab the symbol itself and use it as a key to the hash table
2020-07-08T15:33:34Z theseb: not sure why i'm so slow to "get" this stuff
2020-07-08T15:33:51Z beach: x = 4 becomes (setf (gethash 'x *global-hash-table-containing-global-values*) 4)
2020-07-08T15:34:50Z beach: theseb: My hypothesis is that it is time for you to read about compiler design as opposed to guessing how it might be done.
2020-07-08T15:35:20Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:35:56Z duuqnd joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:37:12Z _death: beach: I wrote a bit of code and I think I understand what happens where/when better now.. e.g., https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1946#1946
2020-07-08T15:38:38Z beach: Great!
2020-07-08T15:41:12Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T15:46:52Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-08T15:52:47Z clintm` joined #lisp
2020-07-08T15:56:27Z clintm quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T15:57:36Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T15:59:54Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:04:43Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:10:14Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-08T16:11:32Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:15:38Z nikkal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T16:17:02Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:21:11Z nikkal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T16:28:10Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:30:36Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:32:33Z nikkal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T16:33:18Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T16:34:23Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:35:16Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:37:17Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T16:42:09Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T16:42:50Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T16:44:26Z kalogik joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:45:01Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:49:48Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T16:50:26Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:57:09Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-08T16:57:09Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-08T16:57:09Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:00:51Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-08T17:06:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:08:25Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:08:38Z jw4 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T17:09:08Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:11:36Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T17:16:33Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:24:57Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:31:28Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:33:18Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T17:33:37Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:37:54Z kalogik quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T17:39:43Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:41:03Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:47:07Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:47:25Z |3b|: ok, CL(sbcl) should be supported for icfp programminng contest :) if anyone intends to participate with CL, might check https://github.com/icfpcontest2020/dockerfiles/tree/master/dockerfiles/commonlisp and (the pull request on) https://github.com/icfpcontest2020/starterkit-commonlisp for anything you think should be improved
2020-07-08T17:47:45Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-08T17:49:34Z ArthurStrong joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:51:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:55:21Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-08T17:57:10Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T18:00:50Z ArthurStrong left #lisp
2020-07-08T18:00:53Z nitrosun joined #lisp
2020-07-08T18:01:49Z nitrosun left #lisp
2020-07-08T18:03:01Z JohnTalent quit (Changing host)
2020-07-08T18:03:01Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-08T18:04:18Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-08T18:06:04Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-08T18:16:41Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-08T18:24:13Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T18:25:42Z stepnem quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T18:30:00Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-08T18:34:17Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-08T18:46:24Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-08T18:53:06Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T18:55:13Z JohnTalent quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-08T18:55:34Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:00:05Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:02:53Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T19:04:17Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-08T19:07:55Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:08:01Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-08T19:10:14Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:11:30Z rogersm quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-08T19:11:40Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:13:33Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:17:24Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-08T19:17:51Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:19:51Z entel joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:20:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T19:21:48Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:26:19Z Christ0pher quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-08T19:26:23Z Balooga joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:27:55Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-08T19:28:27Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:30:49Z selwyn joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:33:11Z l1x joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:33:36Z gxt quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-08T19:34:02Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T19:34:27Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:35:13Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-08T19:35:25Z fowlduck joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:37:01Z stylewarning joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:38:41Z mgsk joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:39:14Z boeg joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:39:49Z palter joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:40:21Z palter quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-08T19:40:35Z ffwacom joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:41:00Z asedeno joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:42:07Z palter joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:42:34Z drmeister joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:42:54Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T19:44:05Z kmeow joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:44:42Z palter quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-08T19:45:00Z palter joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:45:41Z palter quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-08T19:47:58Z pent joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:48:38Z jsatk joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:48:40Z travv0 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:51:19Z avicenna joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:52:59Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-08T19:53:08Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:55:36Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T19:55:39Z gaze__ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:56:02Z hydan joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:56:18Z p_l joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:56:26Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:57:07Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:58:28Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2020-07-08T19:58:58Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T19:59:42Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-08T20:00:38Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:01:38Z dnm joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:02:34Z billstclair joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:03:02Z conjunctive joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:04:16Z rme joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:04:24Z jmercouris joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:04:26Z parisienne___ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:05:02Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T20:05:37Z XachX joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:06:26Z rvirding joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:07:22Z ssd532 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:08:19Z sgithens joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:08:44Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:09:05Z johs joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:09:21Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:09:43Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:09:57Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:11:10Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:11:37Z jhei joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:12:04Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:12:32Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T20:13:17Z bytesighs joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:15:43Z joels quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T20:16:56Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:17:08Z gjnoonan joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:17:57Z lukego joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:21:21Z jerme_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:21:54Z jlpeters joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:22:13Z mjl joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:22:32Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:23:39Z tfb joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:24:44Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T20:25:20Z scymtym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T20:26:23Z lispyone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:28:30Z physpi joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:36:27Z splittist joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:37:10Z RagnarDanneskjol joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:37:17Z Inline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T20:37:33Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:38:37Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:41:01Z PuercoPop quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2020-07-08T20:47:36Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:48:03Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-08T20:48:17Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-08T20:54:27Z cyberbanjo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-08T20:55:54Z phadthai quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T20:58:01Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:58:05Z phadthai joined #lisp
2020-07-08T20:59:08Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T21:00:50Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-08T21:02:42Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T21:04:22Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T21:06:25Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-08T21:09:18Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T21:09:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T21:09:54Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T21:19:36Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T21:29:32Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T21:36:13Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-08T21:49:28Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T21:49:39Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T21:53:32Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-08T21:57:43Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T21:58:00Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T21:58:13Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:01:02Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T22:01:08Z terpri_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-08T22:02:15Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:03:04Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T22:03:05Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:03:15Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:03:40Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T22:05:56Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T22:08:14Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T22:10:25Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-08T22:10:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T22:13:05Z Archenoth quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-08T22:15:29Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:17:43Z JohnTalent quit (Changing host)
2020-07-08T22:17:43Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:17:46Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T22:18:24Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:21:33Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:24:20Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T22:24:36Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:25:54Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T22:29:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-08T22:29:36Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:38:29Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:40:44Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T22:41:17Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-08T22:44:43Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:54:10Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-08T22:55:38Z rixard quit
2020-07-08T22:55:52Z rixard joined #lisp
2020-07-08T22:58:24Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-08T23:02:11Z clintm`` joined #lisp
2020-07-08T23:04:12Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-08T23:04:29Z clintm` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-08T23:15:18Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T23:16:51Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-08T23:20:34Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-08T23:20:36Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-08T23:22:20Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-08T23:26:50Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-08T23:27:49Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-08T23:30:00Z Harag quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-08T23:36:40Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-08T23:40:08Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-08T23:45:26Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-08T23:45:42Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-08T23:46:42Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-08T23:48:43Z hineios730393479 joined #lisp
2020-07-08T23:51:11Z hineios730393479 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T23:52:46Z duuqnd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T23:53:36Z efm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-08T23:54:00Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:01:56Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:09:44Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:11:40Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T00:14:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:16:44Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T00:30:17Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T00:30:39Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:34:06Z efm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T00:36:43Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T00:37:47Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-09T00:38:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T00:38:05Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:38:25Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:42:23Z efm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T00:43:31Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:43:55Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:44:08Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T00:46:54Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T00:48:42Z efm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T00:53:01Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:57:41Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-09T00:57:51Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T01:03:22Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-09T01:04:30Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T01:06:26Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-09T01:09:28Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-09T01:12:01Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T01:24:43Z efm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T01:28:06Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T01:32:54Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-09T01:33:43Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-09T01:34:24Z ebt joined #lisp
2020-07-09T01:36:52Z cyberbanjo_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T01:44:37Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-09T01:48:07Z cranes quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T01:50:33Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-09T01:51:13Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T01:52:09Z ebt quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-09T01:54:41Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T02:07:54Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T02:09:45Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-09T02:11:01Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-09T02:23:28Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T02:23:29Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T02:25:50Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-09T02:26:33Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-09T02:28:07Z z3t0 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T02:34:12Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T02:46:21Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-09T02:47:16Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-09T02:49:33Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-09T03:05:51Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-09T03:07:17Z z3t0 left #lisp
2020-07-09T03:07:48Z z3t0 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T03:13:17Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-09T03:17:44Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-09T03:18:07Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T03:18:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T03:22:22Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T03:26:14Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-09T03:26:18Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-09T03:26:45Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-09T03:29:09Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-09T03:31:32Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-09T03:35:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T03:37:07Z aaaaaa: beach: good morning. Long time no see
2020-07-09T03:37:35Z beach: That must be because of your absence.  I've been here.
2020-07-09T03:38:15Z aaaaaa: beach: Yes. Been busy...
2020-07-09T03:38:42Z beach: You must have changed your nick too.
2020-07-09T03:38:53Z aaaaaa: beach: Yes. I was ArthurStrong
2020-07-09T03:39:00Z beach: Ah, I see now.
2020-07-09T03:39:13Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-09T03:43:46Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-09T03:44:42Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-09T03:48:34Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T03:56:52Z z3t0: beach: morning!
2020-07-09T04:01:22Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-09T04:04:57Z beach: z3t0: [Looking at the channel logs] A few days ago, fbmnds showed up here to announce the intention of using EQL5 with ECL on Android etc.  Not sure whether you are still interested in that stuff.
2020-07-09T04:06:35Z JohnTalent quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-09T04:07:24Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-09T04:07:54Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-09T04:08:08Z seok: I'm thinking of not using a db and just using lisp objects
2020-07-09T04:08:33Z beach: Good idea.
2020-07-09T04:08:35Z seok: would this have lower throughput / performance for predicate based searches?
2020-07-09T04:08:46Z seok: compared to sql/ or other dbs
2020-07-09T04:08:55Z beach: How big is your data set?
2020-07-09T04:09:07Z seok: I dunno, I want to get it pretty big
2020-07-09T04:09:27Z beach: More than 10GB?
2020-07-09T04:09:53Z seok: let's say facebook or reddit ran  in-memory on lisp
2020-07-09T04:10:36Z seok: I reckon id-based searches would do fine
2020-07-09T04:10:50Z seok: but concerned about comparison searches etc
2020-07-09T04:12:04Z seok: I don't think it will get bigger than 10gb soon, but in the future maybe?
2020-07-09T04:12:42Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T04:12:48Z beach: If things will fit in RAM, then I am guessing it will always be faster than a traditional relational database manager.
2020-07-09T04:12:59Z seok: Yes, that's what I'm expecting
2020-07-09T04:13:13Z seok: I don't see a reason why not
2020-07-09T04:14:10Z seok: To search for a row with a integer field between x and y, a traditional db still loops through the entire table doesn't it?
2020-07-09T04:14:44Z beach: I am no expert, so I won't attempt to guess.
2020-07-09T04:15:22Z beach: But whatever optimization tricks a database manager can do, you should be able to do as well, and faster.
2020-07-09T04:15:43Z seok: cool
2020-07-09T04:15:52Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-09T04:23:27Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T04:23:56Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2020-07-09T04:26:55Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-09T04:31:35Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T04:32:22Z z3t0: beach: still very interested yes! I've been eyeing mocl even.
2020-07-09T04:32:50Z z3t0: is there somewhere I can read more about this?
2020-07-09T04:33:03Z clothespin joined #lisp
2020-07-09T04:35:09Z clothespin_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-09T04:43:24Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T04:45:39Z beach: Try the channel logs.  I don't know anything more than that.  Or perhaps jackdaniel knows more.
2020-07-09T04:53:29Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-09T04:57:53Z z3t0: will do thanks
2020-07-09T04:58:09Z z3t0: On a sidenote, anyone here playing around with lisp and pinephones?
2020-07-09T05:00:25Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:01:55Z ebt joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:06:28Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:08:31Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:08:59Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T05:09:16Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:11:14Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T05:11:31Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:13:46Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:14:29Z libertyprime quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T05:15:41Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:25:16Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-09T05:27:07Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:33:39Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:35:11Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:46:03Z wxie quit (Quit: wxie)
2020-07-09T05:46:24Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:49:51Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-07-09T05:51:10Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T05:51:25Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:55:22Z phoe: minion: memo for seok: traditional DBs often use indices to speed up searches and avoid full loops over tables, so it is possible that an in-memory linear iteration over a whole table is going to be *slower* than database access that is logarithmic or better - that's a data structure problem
2020-07-09T05:55:22Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell seok when he/she/it next speaks.
2020-07-09T05:57:55Z marusich joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:58:21Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-09T05:59:54Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T06:08:27Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:10:02Z frgo_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T06:11:24Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T06:14:00Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-09T06:14:06Z fbmnds joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:15:01Z fbmnds: good morning
2020-07-09T06:16:06Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T06:16:07Z fbmnds: beach: thank you for passing the topic to z3t0:
2020-07-09T06:17:42Z beach: fbmnds: Pleasure.
2020-07-09T06:17:56Z fbmnds: z3t0: afaik, there is not much published around EQL5 - I can recommend though the examples on https://gitlab.com/eql/EQL5
2020-07-09T06:19:34Z fbmnds: beach: I am checking the logs every once and a while - I am using the chat more like a black board
2020-07-09T06:21:24Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-09T06:25:50Z beach: I see.
2020-07-09T06:25:53Z z3t0: fbmnds: thanks, I have a project in mind where I want to write a kitchen sink android app for capturing tasks and notes temporarily. Didn't want to touch java... Hopefully EQL suits my use case
2020-07-09T06:26:34Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:26:36Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T06:26:38Z stoneglass joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:27:21Z z3t0 left #lisp
2020-07-09T06:30:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-09T06:30:18Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:31:33Z fbmnds: z3t0: you may want to read https://common-lisp.net/project/ecl/posts/Lisp-ECL-and-QML-Qt5-on-Android.html
2020-07-09T06:32:27Z fbmnds: z3t0: there you also find the download link for the Android apps which work fine; see also https://gitlab.com/eql/EQL5-Android
2020-07-09T06:32:37Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T06:32:49Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-09T06:33:08Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:33:41Z KingRiver joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:34:16Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:34:53Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T06:37:24Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T06:42:32Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T06:45:57Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:49:26Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:53:13Z fbmnds: I guess, some traffic has been generated https://gitlab.com/eql/EQL5-Android/-/issues/17
2020-07-09T06:54:27Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:55:05Z terrorjack quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-09T06:55:07Z mpontillo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-09T06:55:15Z edgar-rft quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T06:55:23Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T06:56:30Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:56:52Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:57:00Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:57:13Z Cymew joined #lisp
2020-07-09T06:57:56Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
2020-07-09T06:58:58Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-09T07:05:25Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T07:07:22Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-09T07:21:03Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-09T07:24:33Z phoe: hey that's me
2020-07-09T07:28:02Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T07:29:54Z fbmnds: phoe: thought so
2020-07-09T07:34:08Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T07:34:17Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-09T07:43:23Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-09T07:44:48Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-09T07:45:30Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-09T07:45:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-09T07:52:20Z fbmnds quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2020-07-09T07:55:36Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T07:58:26Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T07:58:34Z clintm``` joined #lisp
2020-07-09T07:59:56Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:01:18Z clintm`` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-09T08:03:48Z vutral quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-09T08:04:50Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-09T08:04:59Z gjnoonan quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T08:05:03Z XachX quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T08:05:48Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:05:57Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T08:06:07Z billstclair joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:06:29Z XachX joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:06:49Z Balooga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T08:06:51Z XachX quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
2020-07-09T08:06:56Z drainful joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:07:09Z Balooga joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:07:17Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-09T08:07:38Z gjnoonan joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:09:06Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T08:15:21Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-09T08:16:47Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:22:41Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:24:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:29:39Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:32:10Z seok: phoe: nice, thank you
2020-07-09T08:32:10Z minion: seok, memo from phoe: traditional DBs often use indices to speed up searches and avoid full loops over tables, so it is possible that an in-memory linear iteration over a whole table is going to be *slower* than database access that is logarithmic or better - that's a data structure problem
2020-07-09T08:32:42Z seok: I'm trying to look up on this topic, what would be the search keywords?
2020-07-09T08:33:31Z seok: do traditional databases create an index for every field so it can do sorts?
2020-07-09T08:33:46Z phoe: seok: I just found an article on Hacker News yesterday that sounds really related - https://blog.dbi-services.com/the-myth-of-nosql-vs-rdbms-joins-dont-scale/
2020-07-09T08:34:31Z phoe: tl;dr you can define where indices should be created by the database, and that allows the DB to avoid full table scans. that's off-topic for #lisp, but that article should give you pointers and search keywords for future digging up
2020-07-09T08:35:04Z phoe: this article also compares SQL databases to NoSQL databases a little bit, and in-memory key-value stores are a form of NoSQL - hence further relevance to your topic
2020-07-09T08:37:53Z syminal joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:38:25Z EvW1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T08:39:29Z syminal quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-09T08:41:37Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:42:12Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:46:21Z cmatei quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T08:47:40Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-09T08:48:13Z cmatei joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:49:39Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-09T08:52:10Z datajerk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T09:01:01Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-09T09:01:29Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T09:09:15Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-09T09:10:45Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-09T09:15:20Z pve: Hi, is loading a source file equivalent to binding *package* and *readtable* and then doing roughly (do-until-eof (eval (read file-stream)))?
2020-07-09T09:16:43Z beach: Sounds about right.  Why do you ask?
2020-07-09T09:17:22Z polaris joined #lisp
2020-07-09T09:18:26Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-09T09:18:35Z jdz: There are also *load-pathname* and *load-truename*, and interaction with EVAL-WHEN I'm not quite sure about.
2020-07-09T09:19:05Z pve: beach: my toy language has a load-source-file function, and I was just considering how similar it is to CL:LOAD
2020-07-09T09:19:33Z beach: Hmm, OK.
2020-07-09T09:19:33Z pve: I mean, I suppose would like it to be as similar as possible
2020-07-09T09:20:07Z beach: If you want it to be as similar as possible, why don't you implement Common Lisp?
2020-07-09T09:20:08Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T09:21:04Z beach: I should ask it differently:  Why are you working on implementing a toy language?
2020-07-09T09:21:34Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-09T09:22:14Z drainful quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-09T09:22:42Z phoe: beach: sounds like it's smalltalk-on-CL
2020-07-09T09:22:48Z pve: I'm simply exploring what it is like to build a language on top of CL
2020-07-09T09:23:00Z beach: OK.
2020-07-09T09:25:37Z pve: I'm now at the point where I can compile and load source files into my running lisp with C-c C-k, so I'm pretty happy with that
2020-07-09T09:26:47Z pve: "compile" meaning go from the smalltalk-like syntax to CL
2020-07-09T09:29:42Z pve: jdz: good point about *load-pathname* and *load-truename*
2020-07-09T09:30:50Z duuqnd joined #lisp
2020-07-09T09:42:47Z clintm``` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T09:50:06Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T09:56:01Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T09:56:26Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:04:06Z i0_202365 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:10:17Z dim: seok: about database vs lisp objects, the main question is about concurrency behavior. how do you intend to approach concurrent edits to the same objects from multiple threads? can you run more than one lisp image with the same dataset? that's where a database solves many problems, concurrent accesses to a single data set, with business guarantees (constraints), and then ACID is a nice set of properties to have, and all falls down from there, including SQL
2020-07-09T10:10:59Z seok: only intend to use one thread for writing
2020-07-09T10:11:10Z dim: SQL allows to send computations where the data is and in a way that remains ACID compliant, and makes it easy enough to reason about etc
2020-07-09T10:11:33Z seok: I don't think acid is so difficult to implement
2020-07-09T10:11:40Z dim: seok: if you have a solid answer then it's all good, I'm trying to say that this is the main question you should consider here, in my opinion
2020-07-09T10:11:51Z dim: ahahahahahah
2020-07-09T10:11:52Z seok: plus, I intend to write my application as append only
2020-07-09T10:12:18Z seok: I'm more concerned about throughput
2020-07-09T10:12:23Z dim: sorry about that, but yeah, sure, it took only years and years of very hard work from very talented people to implement ACID, and almost all implementations of it are buggy in different ways
2020-07-09T10:12:52Z dim: seok: if you think ACID isn't so difficult, may I suggest you spend some quality time reading https://jepsen.io ?
2020-07-09T10:13:07Z seok: Well, it probably is hard trying to write a general solution for acid indeed!
2020-07-09T10:13:52Z dim: if you can understand this article on the first read, then maybe you can implement your own acid needs yourself, otherwise I personnaly would not even try: https://jepsen.io/analyses/postgresql-12.3
2020-07-09T10:15:05Z seok: I agree with what you are saying that there are certainly bug-prone areas for a general solution database accommodating  multiple read write clients,
2020-07-09T10:15:10Z dim: anyway, I got triggered with database vs internal in-memory objects, the trade-off is all about concurrency, that's my message ;-)
2020-07-09T10:15:15Z seok: but that's not what I'm trying to write though
2020-07-09T10:15:27Z vaporatorius__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T10:16:02Z cpt_nemo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T10:16:04Z dim: sounds good then, seems like you actually have a choice
2020-07-09T10:16:18Z dim: (I mean a choice that's different from implementing ACID yourself)
2020-07-09T10:16:52Z seok: I'm bit scared of running out of memory writing poor search solutions
2020-07-09T10:16:57Z seok: : (
2020-07-09T10:17:34Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:17:45Z seok: I'm still reading the article phoe sent me xD
2020-07-09T10:17:50Z dim: PAIP has nice chapters all about solving search problems in lisp, including writing a prolog interpreter from scratch and then a compiler to optimise it
2020-07-09T10:18:01Z seok: paip?
2020-07-09T10:18:24Z dim: see https://github.com/norvig/paip-lisp
2020-07-09T10:18:36Z seok: At this stage, I'm wondering if sbcl's sort is suffice for large arrays
2020-07-09T10:18:50Z seok: Ah thank you
2020-07-09T10:20:02Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:23:11Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:24:06Z Harag: seok: I run 10 mil records in a in memory database on sbcl no problem and searches can be done in sub seconds on 10 mil
2020-07-09T10:24:11Z Harag: sub second
2020-07-09T10:24:35Z seok: @Harag Thats great to hear!
2020-07-09T10:24:52Z seok: I don't need to do special indexing or anything?
2020-07-09T10:24:52Z Harag: seok: you can look at cl-naive-store
2020-07-09T10:25:33Z Harag: if you are not worried about creating duplicates then no indexing needed
2020-07-09T10:26:31Z Harag: and there is very little difference in scanning a list and array in sbcl
2020-07-09T10:26:49Z Harag: once again sub second
2020-07-09T10:27:06Z seok: but getting a value out of array is O(1) isn't it?
2020-07-09T10:27:16Z Harag: if you have the index
2020-07-09T10:27:20Z seok: yes
2020-07-09T10:27:27Z Harag: so you need indexing
2020-07-09T10:27:40Z seok: Sometimes I will have the index
2020-07-09T10:27:41Z Harag: then a hashtable would give more flexibility
2020-07-09T10:27:50Z seok: sometimes I will need to find a value
2020-07-09T10:28:04Z ym joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:28:06Z Harag: gives you "comprehensible" key/index
2020-07-09T10:28:24Z Harag: and once again the speed difference is small
2020-07-09T10:29:03Z Harag: seok we can take this off line if want to discuss it further, we are poluting ;)
2020-07-09T10:29:14Z seok: Sure!
2020-07-09T10:29:16Z seok: : D
2020-07-09T10:29:54Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:31:49Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T10:32:15Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:32:45Z gxt quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-09T10:39:42Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:41:37Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T10:41:55Z epony quit (Quit: reconfigure)
2020-07-09T10:42:29Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-09T10:42:57Z seok: How do I find out how much memory an object is using?
2020-07-09T10:43:27Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:47:07Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-09T10:48:42Z KingRiver quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T10:51:34Z red-dot: Hola everyone. For those using gitlab.commonlisp.net: is there something special you need to do to fork a repository? All the fork buttons are greyed out for me.
2020-07-09T10:52:35Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-09T10:52:53Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-09T11:00:44Z red-dot: That's interesting. It looks like there are 0 forks of all the projects I looked at. Are forks disabled on gitlab.commonlisp.net? If so, how to people contribute improvements?
2020-07-09T11:02:21Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-09T11:04:48Z |3b|: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/alexandria/alexandria and https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf seem to have forks, though not sure how to see it on those pages
2020-07-09T11:06:20Z phoe: red-dot: yes
2020-07-09T11:06:37Z phoe: go to #common-lisp.net and ask ehuelsmann for boosting your repo limit
2020-07-09T11:07:15Z phoe: you can't fork because your default repo limit is at 0; AFAIK that's an unfortunate implication of spambots having it really really hard on clnet's gitlab
2020-07-09T11:08:35Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-09T11:16:21Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-09T11:20:33Z i0_202365 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T11:22:54Z red-dot: Thanks.
2020-07-09T11:27:33Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-09T11:44:32Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-09T11:46:12Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T11:46:55Z igemnace quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-09T11:52:03Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T11:52:51Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-09T11:53:23Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-09T11:54:10Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-09T11:58:07Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T12:00:42Z frgo quit
2020-07-09T12:02:26Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T12:03:04Z polaris quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T12:04:10Z heisig quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T12:06:04Z polaris joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:06:30Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:08:42Z stepnem quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T12:10:19Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:10:25Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:13:55Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:16:11Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:16:58Z seok: just noticed a fresh sbcl (room) returns this
2020-07-09T12:16:59Z seok: Dynamic space usage is:   80,281,232 bytes.
2020-07-09T12:17:15Z ebrasca: Do you know someting about syntax highlight for web pages? ( cl )
2020-07-09T12:17:39Z seok: Does this means a blank sbcl compiled will be 80mb?
2020-07-09T12:17:46Z seok: Or just the functions used?
2020-07-09T12:18:45Z freshpassport quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-09T12:19:07Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-09T12:21:34Z _death: ebrasca: do you mean something like https://github.com/stassats/lisp-bots/blob/master/colorize.lisp ?
2020-07-09T12:22:52Z phoe: ebrasca: for sure Plaster uses something like that.
2020-07-09T12:23:14Z Guest_8 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:24:21Z phoe: if it's able to highlight stuff like https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1944# then it must use something for that
2020-07-09T12:24:49Z ebrasca: I am thinking on having my on pastebin for cl. I am playing with weblocks.
2020-07-09T12:26:54Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T12:27:53Z gareppa joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:28:41Z gareppa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T12:29:01Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T12:30:36Z phoe: grab plaster and take it apart then
2020-07-09T12:30:44Z phoe: it should provide inspiration and such
2020-07-09T12:36:30Z ebrasca: thx _death , phoe
2020-07-09T12:39:12Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-09T12:39:59Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:40:54Z duuqnd: seok: When I run ROOM I get 43,205,072 bytes if dynamic space used
2020-07-09T12:41:03Z duuqnd: s/if/of
2020-07-09T12:41:09Z seok: Hm
2020-07-09T12:41:22Z seok: Is there a way to find the memory usage of an object?
2020-07-09T12:41:40Z seok: what's the sbcl version of ccl:object-direct-size
2020-07-09T12:41:41Z seok: ?
2020-07-09T12:42:20Z duuqnd: I don't know if there is one. I've looked in the past and found nothing
2020-07-09T12:42:30Z grewal quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-09T12:42:32Z seok: That's a shame
2020-07-09T12:42:34Z duuqnd: But I don't know for sure, it could exist
2020-07-09T12:42:40Z duuqnd: I just haven't seen it
2020-07-09T12:46:19Z ebrasca quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T12:46:32Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:46:46Z duuqnd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T12:47:42Z phoe: maybe #sbcl might help you
2020-07-09T12:48:07Z duuqnd joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:48:43Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T12:49:36Z yottabyte joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:53:13Z liberliver quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T12:54:07Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:55:28Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-09T12:57:31Z polaris quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T13:01:24Z beach quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2020-07-09T13:02:48Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-09T13:04:56Z beach joined #lisp
2020-07-09T13:10:26Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-09T13:22:20Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T13:25:57Z shangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T13:28:22Z jprajzne quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-09T13:36:42Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T13:38:23Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-09T13:39:37Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T13:48:17Z liberliver quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T13:48:40Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-09T13:50:01Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T13:52:13Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-09T13:56:28Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T13:58:37Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T14:03:11Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2020-07-09T14:04:10Z dominic35 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T14:04:35Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-09T14:05:18Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T14:05:19Z dominic35 is now known as dominic34
2020-07-09T14:15:11Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-09T14:15:37Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-09T14:29:53Z null_ptr quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T14:30:19Z idxu quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-07-09T14:30:38Z idxu joined #lisp
2020-07-09T14:32:57Z null_ptr joined #lisp
2020-07-09T14:37:01Z ebt quit (Quit: Quit)
2020-07-09T14:37:51Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T14:37:56Z Guest_8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T14:38:12Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-09T14:44:34Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-09T14:48:56Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-09T14:54:23Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-09T14:54:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:05:15Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:06:37Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:11:26Z joels joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:12:04Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T15:15:44Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T15:18:46Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:22:14Z stoneglass quit (Quit: stoneglass)
2020-07-09T15:22:38Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:24:44Z joels quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T15:26:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T15:27:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:30:44Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T15:35:20Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:38:39Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:40:10Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-09T15:42:07Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T15:45:51Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:46:28Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T15:48:17Z kalogik joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:56:00Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-09T15:57:54Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-09T16:19:24Z kalogik quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T16:42:30Z jurov_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:44:47Z jurov quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-09T16:45:01Z jurov_ is now known as jurov
2020-07-09T16:47:59Z rme_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:48:03Z avicenna_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:48:15Z gaze___ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:55:26Z mankaev quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:26Z lukego quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:26Z bytesighs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:26Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:26Z rme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:26Z gaze__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:26Z avicenna quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:26Z deselby quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:26Z even4void[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:27Z rotty quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:27Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:27Z saturn2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:27Z SomeB quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:27Z housel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-09T16:55:28Z rme_ is now known as rme
2020-07-09T16:55:28Z avicenna_ is now known as avicenna
2020-07-09T16:55:32Z gaze___ is now known as gaze__
2020-07-09T16:55:39Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:55:46Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:56:08Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T16:56:44Z katco quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T16:56:44Z camlriot42 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T16:56:44Z userself quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T16:56:45Z liamz[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T16:56:48Z Gnuxie[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T16:56:48Z MrtnDk[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T16:56:49Z unl0ckd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T16:56:50Z cairn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T16:56:52Z infra_red[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T16:56:52Z fountainpen[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T16:56:56Z sammich quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T16:58:25Z hdasch quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T16:58:43Z lukego joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:58:43Z bytesighs joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:58:43Z johs joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:58:43Z rotty joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:58:43Z copec joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:58:43Z SomeB joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:58:43Z housel joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:58:45Z saturn2 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T16:58:53Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:03:44Z userself joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:07:07Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:07:30Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:10:07Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:10:35Z kalogik joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:12:41Z kalogik quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-09T17:13:18Z kalogik joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:14:00Z kalogik quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-09T17:14:33Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:14:39Z rgherdt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T17:14:58Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:15:04Z rogersm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T17:16:49Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:23Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:43Z infra_red[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:43Z even4void[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:43Z Gnuxie[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:43Z camlriot42 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:43Z deselby joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:44Z MrtnDk[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:44Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:44Z katco joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:44Z unl0ckd joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:44Z sammich joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:49Z fountainpen[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:31:50Z liamz[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:32:30Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-09T17:38:12Z kmeow quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T17:44:56Z jasom quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-09T17:47:55Z jasom joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:52:36Z marusich joined #lisp
2020-07-09T17:52:58Z cracauer: hello
2020-07-09T17:53:40Z duuqnd: hi
2020-07-09T17:56:21Z phoe: heyyyy
2020-07-09T17:57:18Z shka_: hi
2020-07-09T18:00:24Z aaaaaa: Hi all. how do you serialize data to file? I just want (1.2) to be stored like the "(1.2)" string. and read it back then. I saw this in some lisp/scheme textbooks, but forgot.
2020-07-09T18:00:41Z duuqnd: PRINT works for simple stuff
2020-07-09T18:00:47Z aaaaaa: duuqnd: thanks
2020-07-09T18:01:08Z Bike: aaaaaa: specifically, use prin1 if you want lisp to be able to read it back.
2020-07-09T18:01:09Z shka_: print and read
2020-07-09T18:01:29Z aaaaaa: thanks
2020-07-09T18:01:30Z Bike: and bind *print-readably* to t
2020-07-09T18:01:30Z aaaaaa: !
2020-07-09T18:02:51Z duuqnd: If you ever want to serialize CLOS objects I'd recommend the library cl-store
2020-07-09T18:04:34Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-09T18:07:24Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T18:15:15Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-09T18:16:52Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T18:24:13Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-09T18:25:28Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T18:33:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-09T18:34:41Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-09T18:35:48Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-09T18:52:53Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-09T18:59:45Z _paul0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T19:00:07Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:02:34Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:11:24Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:15:27Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-09T19:15:29Z Harag: is there any statistics available for projects in quicklisp, specifically how many downloads of it?
2020-07-09T19:18:10Z Harag: the newest ones I can find is http://blog.quicklisp.org/2018/02/download-stats-for-january-2018.html
2020-07-09T19:20:06Z fe[nl]ix: hey cracauer
2020-07-09T19:21:13Z Harag: Xach: is it a big job? I am considering trashing api compatibility for my project, and it should be ok since I dont think anybody but me uses it, I just wanted to be sure before I spoil some ones day.
2020-07-09T19:23:54Z z3t0 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:23:56Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:31:20Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T19:32:28Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T19:33:17Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T19:35:14Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:35:27Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:36:26Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:43:19Z _Posterdati_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:44:37Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T19:44:41Z _Posterdati_ is now known as Posterdati
2020-07-09T19:53:26Z duuqnd_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:53:26Z duuqnd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T19:53:36Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:57:38Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-09T19:57:38Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-09T19:57:38Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-09T20:01:57Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T20:05:47Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-09T20:08:25Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T20:09:27Z nitrosun joined #lisp
2020-07-09T20:10:14Z duuqnd_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T20:24:16Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T20:30:50Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T20:31:36Z nitrosun quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-09T20:37:59Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T20:38:21Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T20:41:00Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-09T20:45:47Z xrash quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T20:46:41Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-09T20:47:37Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T20:47:38Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-09T20:51:34Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-09T20:59:27Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-09T21:00:56Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T21:02:22Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:02:55Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:05:50Z tychoish joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:07:18Z rogersm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T21:14:44Z Xach: Harag: it's a medium job
2020-07-09T21:15:00Z Xach: Harag: i'd argue for you not to trash it anyway, though!
2020-07-09T21:17:10Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T21:18:31Z niceplace quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T21:18:43Z niceplace joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:23:39Z Bike quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T21:23:44Z Bike_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:25:52Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T21:26:45Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:27:16Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T21:30:03Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T21:31:24Z gjulio quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T21:32:40Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:32:54Z gjulio quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T21:37:17Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:40:44Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T21:41:54Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T21:43:03Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T21:45:56Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-09T21:47:54Z fe[nl]ix: Xach: I'm in the process of rewriting Bordeaux-threads. the two implementations will coexist in different packages until I switch everybody to the new one
2020-07-09T21:50:29Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:51:25Z gjulio_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T21:51:35Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:52:25Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:52:28Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T21:52:29Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-09T21:55:36Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:55:49Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:56:07Z Bike_ is now known as Bike
2020-07-09T21:56:58Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T21:58:47Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:58:48Z gjulio_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-09T21:59:04Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T21:59:55Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-09T22:00:46Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T22:02:08Z Harag: Xach: yes I know that it would be the right thing to do but I really want to change some stuff, and really really dont want to start a new project :(
2020-07-09T22:02:46Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-09T22:02:53Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T22:03:48Z Harag: maybe I can get away with a compatability layer...
2020-07-09T22:06:15Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T22:12:40Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T22:13:54Z cosimone_ is now known as cosimone
2020-07-09T22:17:19Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T22:20:26Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-09T22:33:47Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-09T22:34:58Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-09T22:37:38Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-09T22:38:27Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T22:39:21Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-09T22:41:54Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-09T22:42:09Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-09T22:42:51Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T22:50:01Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T22:56:32Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-09T22:57:34Z terpri_ is now known as terpri
2020-07-09T23:02:37Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T23:04:21Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-09T23:09:29Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-09T23:16:58Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-09T23:17:05Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-09T23:18:57Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-09T23:19:30Z theseb: Is it possible to use defvar, defparameter, or let multiple times with the SAME variable/symbol? even in the same function?  you'll just keep creating a new variable right?
2020-07-09T23:20:02Z Bike: you shouldn't be using defvar or defparameter in function bodies.
2020-07-09T23:20:22Z Bike: if you have a let inside another let, any names in the inner let will shadow those in the outer let.
2020-07-09T23:20:36Z Bike: which is to say there will be distinct bindings.
2020-07-09T23:22:14Z theseb: ok thanks
2020-07-09T23:23:11Z theseb: Bike: what motivated this question is that it seems you can get by with never mutating....just declaring new variables
2020-07-09T23:23:23Z theseb: Bike: and since functional is trendy maybe that is even fashionable
2020-07-09T23:23:43Z aaaaaa left #lisp
2020-07-09T23:23:51Z Bike: you don't need to mutate bindigns, sure. it's more like tail calls for control flow than nested bindings, though.
2020-07-09T23:39:23Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T23:44:01Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T23:44:06Z White_Flame: mutation is a way to pass information to another piece of code irrespective of flow control
2020-07-09T23:44:36Z White_Flame: if your information passage is always well-known, then parameters & local variables/bindings can do it all
2020-07-09T23:45:23Z White_Flame: (and return values)
2020-07-09T23:48:02Z |3b|: also note that DEFVAR won't change an existing variable, and DEFPARAMETER is effectively mutation when the variable already exists
2020-07-09T23:48:28Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-09T23:48:28Z |3b| wonders if defparameter inside the scope of a dynamic binding of that variable modifies that binding or the global value
2020-07-09T23:48:31Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T23:48:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-09T23:49:13Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-09T23:49:25Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-09T23:49:36Z |3b|: seems to be local binding, not what i had originally guessed :)
2020-07-09T23:51:15Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-09T23:52:27Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-09T23:58:08Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-09T23:58:45Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-10T00:01:32Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-10T00:04:44Z kmeow joined #lisp
2020-07-10T00:12:46Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-10T00:13:05Z seok: Is it a bad idea to use (ql:quickload ) over setting depends-on in .asd file?
2020-07-10T00:14:00Z |3b|: probably, for anything beyond quick hacks
2020-07-10T00:14:08Z seok: why so?
2020-07-10T00:14:51Z |3b|: harder to introspect what it depends on, or build an image without quicklisp
2020-07-10T00:15:13Z |3b|: if other people want to use it, they might not have QL, or might not have a network connection
2020-07-10T00:15:31Z seok: hm
2020-07-10T00:15:32Z seok: ok
2020-07-10T00:15:42Z |3b|: possibly some oddness with ordering if other things want to depend on it
2020-07-10T00:15:50Z nikkal joined #lisp
2020-07-10T00:17:31Z |3b| frequently has a ql:quickload form in a comment or #- in new projects so i can manually evaluate it to easily load the dependencies before i get around to writing an .asd file though
2020-07-10T00:19:54Z White_Flame: |3b|: the defparameter would basically perform a setf if it already exists, so affecting the current binding makes sense
2020-07-10T00:20:01Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-10T00:20:30Z |3b|: yeah, either makes sense, i just guessed wrong :)
2020-07-10T00:21:14Z |3b|: if it did setf of symbol-value it would affect the global binding, setf of name directly would be local, i guessed global since i think of it in terms of global variables, but spec says name
2020-07-10T00:22:08Z nikkal quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T00:24:38Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T00:24:59Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-10T00:25:43Z seok: is there a way to read only last x lines of a file?
2020-07-10T00:26:27Z seok: I want to implement some sort of FILO from a file system
2020-07-10T00:28:24Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T00:33:25Z White_Flame: read-line, rolling buffer of x lines, loop until eof?
2020-07-10T00:34:01Z White_Flame: would be the easiest to do
2020-07-10T00:34:07Z seok: what is that?
2020-07-10T00:34:19Z seok: hm
2020-07-10T00:34:36Z seok: I'm trying to find a solution that does not become more expensive with bigger files
2020-07-10T00:35:00Z White_Flame: the biggest problem with trying to read backwards is the stupid CRLF that some files use
2020-07-10T00:35:04Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T00:35:13Z White_Flame: if you can guarantee a LF character, then you could scan backwards for X number of those
2020-07-10T00:35:32Z seok: I can write in separate files, but lisp puts 10 before 2
2020-07-10T00:35:53Z White_Flame: uh
2020-07-10T00:35:59Z White_Flame: that doesn't make sense.  If you're sorting, then you tell it how to sort
2020-07-10T00:36:20Z White_Flame: if you're sorting strings, then it's up to you to do the zero padding or conversion to numbers
2020-07-10T00:36:44Z seok: well, uiop:directory-files to be precise
2020-07-10T00:36:45Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-10T00:36:51Z seok: hm, I guess it might not matter
2020-07-10T00:37:02Z White_Flame: the filesystem also might be sorting it for some reason
2020-07-10T00:37:20Z White_Flame: but if you're not sorting it yourself, then you cannot rely on the ordering of files being consistent
2020-07-10T00:38:20Z seok: right
2020-07-10T00:40:19Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T00:40:58Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T00:41:30Z seok: What's the best library for storing simple lisp objects, no functions or clos, into files?
2020-07-10T00:44:03Z Xach: seok: cl-store is very easy to use.
2020-07-10T00:44:22Z seok: Thank you xach
2020-07-10T00:44:25Z Xach: seok: but simpler still is using write
2020-07-10T00:44:41Z seok: Can I store non-strings with just write?
2020-07-10T00:45:26Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T00:45:39Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-10T00:45:47Z seok: hm
2020-07-10T00:45:50Z White_Flame: hash tables don't have a readable form, but structures do
2020-07-10T00:46:22Z seok: is write/read more performant than cl-store?
2020-07-10T00:46:45Z Xach: seok: it depends on the objects.
2020-07-10T00:46:59Z Xach: seok: what objects did you have in mind specifically?
2020-07-10T00:47:35Z seok: just strings and numbers
2020-07-10T00:47:57Z Xach: write/read are likely to be faster than using cl-store in that case.
2020-07-10T00:48:05Z seok: I don't think read can read floats though?
2020-07-10T00:48:17Z Xach: seok: why do you think that? read reads all your source code.
2020-07-10T00:48:23Z seok: oh
2020-07-10T00:48:27Z seok: ok
2020-07-10T00:48:35Z nikka quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T00:48:54Z seok: I just remembered there was something about floats that makes them difficult to parse
2020-07-10T00:49:07Z seok: You're right
2020-07-10T00:49:50Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T00:49:57Z White_Flame: printers of FP numbers have generated ascii representations that can be read back in bit-for-bit matching for decades now
2020-07-10T00:51:07Z |3b|: just make sure you include type in the ascii (1f0 or 1d0 instead of 1.0 etc) or READ with same default float format
2020-07-10T00:51:51Z seok: (write 1f0) gives 1.0 though
2020-07-10T00:51:55Z seok: :O
2020-07-10T00:52:01Z White_Flame: all depends on default-float-format
2020-07-10T00:52:10Z White_Flame: if that's the same between reading & writing, it's fine
2020-07-10T00:52:44Z White_Flame: *read-default-float-format*
2020-07-10T00:53:02Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T00:53:07Z seok: Ah found it
2020-07-10T00:53:09Z seok: thank you
2020-07-10T00:55:01Z |3b|: might also look at WITH-STANDARD-IO-SYNTAX when using write/read for data files, so you can try to have a consistent state more easily
2020-07-10T01:02:23Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T01:04:58Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T01:05:42Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T01:24:49Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T01:31:02Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T01:36:01Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-10T01:41:16Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T01:45:42Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T01:47:37Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T01:47:48Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T01:57:00Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T02:02:10Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T02:06:45Z i0_202365 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T02:13:09Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-10T02:23:05Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T02:24:02Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-10T02:26:56Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T02:30:35Z oxum joined #lisp
2020-07-10T02:34:10Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-10T02:34:38Z jasom quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T02:38:26Z jasom joined #lisp
2020-07-10T02:42:15Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T02:43:14Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-10T02:47:02Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T02:50:58Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-10T02:57:01Z oxum quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-10T02:57:02Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T03:01:40Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T03:02:01Z karlosz quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T03:10:34Z ahungry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-10T03:11:54Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-10T03:24:28Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-10T03:28:00Z alandipert: hi beach!
2020-07-10T03:29:25Z beach: Hey, how is JACL going?
2020-07-10T03:30:59Z mrcom quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-10T03:36:36Z efm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T03:40:06Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T03:40:34Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-10T03:43:10Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T03:45:59Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-10T03:47:38Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T03:52:46Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-10T03:53:38Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-10T03:56:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T03:56:40Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:07:56Z paul0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z userself quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z katco quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z lukego quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z bytesighs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z rotty quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z SomeB quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z housel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z Oladon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z X-Scale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z jw4 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z hdasch quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z rippa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z devrtz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z ckonstanski quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z Misha_B quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z jackdaniel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z himmAllRight17 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z Khisanth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z akrl`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z jibanes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z nullheroes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z grumble quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z Xach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z borodust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z ChoHag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z nightfly_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z Inoperable quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z Guest9274 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z jxy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z ozzloy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z trn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:57Z c_nix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z lnostdal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z null_ptr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z idxu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z liberliver quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z ym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z Archenoth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z rixard quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z ffwacom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z mgsk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z cyraxjoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z eta quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z zaquest quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z theBlackDragon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z nckx quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z femi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z tessier quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z azrazalea quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z ft quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z natj212 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z tomaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z xi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z z0d quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z lieven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z esotericalgo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z cairn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z zagura quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z swflint quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z |3b| quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:58Z thonkpod quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z orivej_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z knuckles quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z PuercoPop quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z anatrope quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z TMA quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z froggey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z oldtopman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z elderK quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z DGASAU quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z flazh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z holycow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z kbtr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z cdegroot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z kingcons quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z wigust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z jasom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z gaze__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z beach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z gendl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z CEnnis91 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z RagnarDanneskjol quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z jhei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z kilimanjaro quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z sgithens quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z rvirding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z parisienne___ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z jmercouris quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z travv0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z pent quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z chewbranca quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z msk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z easye quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z dvdmuckle quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z v3ga quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z ark quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z drot_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z HiRE quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:07:59Z Yardanico quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z bkst_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z ecraven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z ioa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z creat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z fe[nl]ix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z Blkt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z otwieracz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z sveit quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z beaky quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z gingerale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z Odin- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z SumoSud0- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z chrpape quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z mrcom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z asarch quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z bsd4me quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z cmatei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z Necktwi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z ult quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z cybercafe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z Ziemas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z elflng quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z h11 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z nitrix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z Mandus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z Zotan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z malm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z eagleflo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z hjudt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z alandipert quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z dim quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z cods quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z micro_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z justinmcp quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:00Z kmeow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z heredoc quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z rumpelszn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z Grue`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z Demosthenex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z i0_202365 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z mathrick quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z z3t0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z spacebat2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z Krystof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z solrize quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z madand quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z kini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z gko`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z snits quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z pok quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z jfb4_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z shenghi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z GreaseMonkey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z lowryder quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z trittweiler quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z add^_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z brass quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z notzmv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z red-dot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z niceplace quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z saturn2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z Harag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z _jrjsmrtn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z Lord_Nightmare quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z l1x quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z justache quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z lavaflow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z vhost- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z loke quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z AdmiralBumbleBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z bacterio quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:01Z stux|RC quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z aeth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z gabot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z dilated_dinosaur quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z OMGOMG quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z bonz060 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z guaqua quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z quazimodo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z datajerk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z boeg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z zigpaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z q-u-a-n2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z grobe0ba quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z xlei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z d4ryus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z joast quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z adlai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z White_Flame quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z mtd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z Tordek quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z minion quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z r3x5- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z gabiruh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z lad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z fengshaun quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z cracauer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z astronavt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z [df] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z payphone quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:02Z even4void[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z Gnuxie[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z cross quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z emacsomancer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z dale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z winny quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z chipolux quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z dxtr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z markasoftware quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z moon-child quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z Grauwolf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z knobo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z XachX quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z billstclair quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z ssd532 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z zymurgy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z cg505 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z xantoz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z tumdum quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z simplegauss quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z ahungry quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z terpri_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z mankaev quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z cpt_nemo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z gjnoonan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z Balooga quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z vutral quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z terrorjack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z jonatack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z Kaisyu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z splittist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z physpi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z lispyone_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z jlpeters quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z stylewarning quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z fowlduck quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z entel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z _whitelogger quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z voidlily_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z midre quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:03Z HDurer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z mgr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z jello_pudding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z xristos quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z shinohai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z larme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z interruptinuse quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z spal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z mbrumlow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z phoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z jackhill quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z kim\ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z eschatologist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z rabuf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z felideon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z CommanderViral quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z hiredman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z karlosz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z efm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z Lord_of_Life quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z stepnem quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z dddddd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z catern quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z nullman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z eMBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z dmiles quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z samebchase quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z mgsk_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z srji quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z sukaeto quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z specbot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z Colleen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z APic quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z tychoish quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z karstensrage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z SAL9000 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z shrysr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z seisatsu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z thijso quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z vert2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z freshpassport quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z Jesin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z Inline quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z Posterdati quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z jurov quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z epony quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z vaporatorius__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z scymtym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z ssake quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z leo_song quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z aindilis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z jbgg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:04Z nydel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z yang quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z nopf_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z funnel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z Kaisyu7 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z fouric quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z ntr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z narendraj9 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z dlowe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z vsync quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z Firedancer_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z sammich quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z camlriot42 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z avicenna quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z rme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z yottabyte quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z tfb quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z jsatk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z drmeister quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z penguwin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z stux|RC-only quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z Blukunfando quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z kopiyka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z CrazyEddy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z mfiano quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z hvxgr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z gjulio__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z deselby quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z unl0ckd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z infra_red[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z mpontillo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:05Z clothespin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z conjunctive quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z dnm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z banjiewen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z p_l quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z selwyn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z RukiSama quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z Ekho quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z hhdave quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z shymega quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z doublex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z madage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z zooey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z cantstanya quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z seok quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z liamz[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z fountainpen[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z MrtnDk[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z mjl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z jerme_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z hydan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:08:06Z abbe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z johs joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Kaisyu7 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z l1x joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z physpi joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z hiredman joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z CommanderViral joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z felideon joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z rabuf joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z kim\ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z jackhill joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z phoe joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z mbrumlow joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z spal joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z interruptinuse joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z larme joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z shinohai joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z xristos joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z jello_pudding joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z mgr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z HDurer joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z voidlily_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z fowlduck joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z stylewarning joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z jlpeters joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z lispyone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z splittist joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Balooga joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z gjnoonan joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z knobo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Grauwolf joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z moon-child joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z markasoftware joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z dxtr joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z chipolux joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z winny joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z dale joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z cross joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z even4void[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Gnuxie[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z micro_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z cods joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z dim joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z alandipert joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z hjudt joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z eagleflo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z malm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Zotan joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Mandus joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z nitrix joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z h11 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Ziemas joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z cybercafe joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z ult joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z cmatei joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z jsatk joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z entel joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Demosthenex joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Grue`` joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z rumpelszn joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z akkad joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z heredoc joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z kmeow joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z brass joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z add^_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z trittweiler joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z lowryder joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z GreaseMonkey joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z shenghi joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z jfb4_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z pok joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z snits joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z gko`` joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z kini joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z madand joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z solrize joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Krystof joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z spacebat2 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z z3t0 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z i0_202365 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z niceplace joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z bacterio joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z vert2 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z thijso joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z seisatsu joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z shrysr joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z karstensrage joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z APic joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Colleen joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z sukaeto joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z srji joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z mgsk_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z samebchase joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z dmiles joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z eMBee joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z tychoish joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z avicenna joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z rme joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z jurov joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z yottabyte joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z XachX joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z billstclair joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z clothespin joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z tfb joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z mjl joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z jerme_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z conjunctive joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z dnm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z p_l joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z hydan joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z drmeister joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z asedeno joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z selwyn joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z RukiSama joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z ssake joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z jbgg joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z nydel joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z zymurgy joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Ekho joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z thonkpod joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z |3b| joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z swflint joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z zagura joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z yang joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z penguwin joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z nopf_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z funnel joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z simplegauss joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z tumdum joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z xantoz joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z cg505 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Firedancer_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z ski joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z vsync joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z dlowe joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z narendraj9 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z ntr joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z fouric joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z hhdave joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z shymega joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z doublex joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z mfiano joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z hvxgr joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z zooey joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z abbe joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:14Z cantstanya joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:21Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:21Z userself joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:21Z lukego joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:21Z bytesighs joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:21Z rotty joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:21Z copec joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:21Z SomeB joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:21Z housel joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:27Z l1x quit (Changing host)
2020-07-10T04:13:27Z l1x joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:27Z johs quit (Changing host)
2020-07-10T04:13:27Z johs joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:28Z terrorjack quit (Ping timeout: 261 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z null_ptr joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z idxu joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z ym joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z rixard joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z ffwacom joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z mgsk joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z eta joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z lonjil joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z nckx joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z femi joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z tessier joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z ck_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z azrazalea joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z natj212 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z tomaw joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z xi joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z z0d joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z lieven joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:34Z esotericalgo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z jasom joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z gaze__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z beach joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z RagnarDanneskjol joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z jhei joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z sgithens joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z rvirding joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z parisienne___ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z jmercouris joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z travv0 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z pent joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z dvdmuckle joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z ark joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z drot_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z HiRE joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z Yardanico joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z bkst_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z ecraven joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z ioa joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z creat joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z Blkt joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z otwieracz joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z sveit joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z beaky joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z gingerale joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z Odin- joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z SumoSud0- joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z antoszka joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z chrpape joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:37Z barjavel.freenode.net has set mode +o fe[nl]ix
2020-07-10T04:13:42Z jdz joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z TMA joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z oldtopman joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z kingcons joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z kbtr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z cdegroot joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z mood joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:52Z wigust joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z boeg joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z q-u-a-n2 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z grobe0ba joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z xlei joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z _death joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z adlai joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z gko joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z joast joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z White_Flame joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z mtd joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z Tordek joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z r3x5- joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z gabiruh joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z fengshaun joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z cracauer joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z astronavt joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z [df] joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:13:58Z payphone joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:08Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:15Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z saturn2 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z vhost- joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z loke joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z AdmiralBumbleBee joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z aeth joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z gabot joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z OMGOMG joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z flip214 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z bonz060 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:16Z guaqua joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z devrtz joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z ckonstanski joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z Misha_B joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z himmAllRight17 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z akrl`` joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z aap joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z borodust joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z grumble joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z Xach joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z ChoHag joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z nightfly_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z Guest9274 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z jxy joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z trn joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:27Z c_nix joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:14:46Z notzmv is now known as Guest52657
2020-07-10T04:14:57Z userself quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:15:04Z stux|RC quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-10T04:15:33Z Inoperable joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:15:47Z gjnoonan quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:15:55Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:16:01Z ssd532 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:16:37Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:16:37Z parisienne___ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:16:37Z pent quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:16:41Z lukego quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:16:57Z Balooga quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:17:01Z even4void[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T04:17:01Z Gnuxie[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T04:17:16Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:17:32Z vutral quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:17:53Z kilimanjaro quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:17:53Z chewbranca quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:18:03Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:18:08Z parisienne___ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:18:24Z Balooga joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:18:27Z cross quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:18:40Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:18:44Z lukego joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:19:00Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:19:14Z cross joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:19:15Z gjnoonan joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:19:20Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:19:21Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:20:30Z Guest52657 is now known as zmv
2020-07-10T04:20:35Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:20:37Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:20:41Z pent joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:21:45Z zmv is now known as notzmv
2020-07-10T04:22:34Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-10T04:23:39Z userself joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:23:42Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:23:56Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:25:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:30:21Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:32:00Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:32:04Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:33:28Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:40:02Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:40:57Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T04:43:11Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:44:03Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:46:06Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:48:27Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T04:49:51Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T04:50:46Z infra_red[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:46Z sammich joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:46Z MrtnDk[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:46Z katco joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:46Z even4void[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:47Z unl0ckd joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:47Z Gnuxie[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:47Z camlriot42 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:47Z deselby joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:47Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:53Z liamz[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:50:53Z fountainpen[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-10T04:57:45Z syminal joined #lisp
2020-07-10T05:04:28Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T05:08:50Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T05:09:46Z marusich joined #lisp
2020-07-10T05:14:37Z marusich quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T05:17:15Z alandipert: beach oh you know, very slowly :-) working on the best way to support multiple values currently
2020-07-10T05:18:16Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-10T05:27:17Z beach: Yes, I understand.
2020-07-10T05:42:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T05:44:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-10T05:45:01Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T05:47:59Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-10T05:48:34Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-10T05:48:34Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-10T05:48:37Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-10T05:49:27Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-10T05:49:36Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T05:52:17Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-10T05:55:34Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-10T05:56:46Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-10T05:57:29Z freshpassport quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-10T06:03:07Z Guest_5 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T06:04:01Z freshpassport joined #lisp
2020-07-10T06:06:39Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T06:09:08Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T06:13:55Z PuercoPop quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2020-07-10T06:15:16Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-10T06:20:59Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-10T06:21:35Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-10T06:37:44Z Cymew joined #lisp
2020-07-10T06:46:46Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T06:47:15Z easye: If one applies CL:REVERSE to a vector specialized on a given type (unsigned-byte 32), is a conforming implementation allowed to return an unspecialized result?
2020-07-10T06:50:21Z easye: From <http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_revers.htm>, a conforming implementation has to have an "actual array element type" so I'm judging the answer to be yes.
2020-07-10T06:52:34Z phoe: AAET means "the type for which the array is actually specialized"
2020-07-10T06:53:36Z phoe: so, "For reverse, if sequence is a vector, the result is a fresh simple array of rank one that has the same actual array element type as sequence."
2020-07-10T06:54:10Z phoe: "For reverse, if sequence is a vector, the result is a fresh simple array of rank one that has the same type for which the array is actually specialized as the input sequence."
2020-07-10T06:54:24Z phoe: so I read it as: if you pass a specialized vector of ub32, then the result must also be a specialized vector of ub32
2020-07-10T07:01:48Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-10T07:04:15Z easye: phoe: yes, that is my reading as well.  Thanks for confirming.
2020-07-10T07:04:25Z easye fixes more of the internals of the Bear.
2020-07-10T07:04:51Z easye: Sometimes I am surprised that ABCL can correctly do any numerics at all.
2020-07-10T07:04:59Z phoe: easye: actually I misread you
2020-07-10T07:05:19Z phoe: if your answer is "yes, the implementation is allowed to return an unspecialized result" then I guess I disagree
2020-07-10T07:05:31Z phoe: since you said you're judging the answer to be yes
2020-07-10T07:05:54Z easye: No, I agree that having CL:REVERSE return an unspecialized type for a specialized argument would be non-conforming.
2020-07-10T07:06:07Z phoe: OK then - I understand now
2020-07-10T07:06:15Z phoe evaluates more tea
2020-07-10T07:06:24Z easye smokes another.
2020-07-10T07:06:43Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-10T07:15:04Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-10T07:33:21Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T07:34:01Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-10T07:45:46Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T07:47:09Z PuercoPop quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-10T07:48:51Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-10T07:49:06Z ljavorsk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T07:50:32Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-10T07:50:54Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-10T07:51:50Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-10T07:54:12Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-10T07:57:11Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:00:32Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T08:05:31Z duuqnd joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:10:32Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:12:27Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:14:22Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T08:15:17Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:23:17Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:36:03Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T08:36:16Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:36:18Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:37:45Z hdasch quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T08:39:02Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:40:46Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:57:50Z rgherdt_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:58:25Z rgherdt_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-10T08:59:02Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T08:59:57Z Harag: is there way to limit a "method" to a funcion's scope?
2020-07-10T09:00:09Z phoe: what do you mean, a function's scope?
2020-07-10T09:00:19Z Harag: like you would use labels
2020-07-10T09:00:23Z Harag: for a function
2020-07-10T09:00:28Z phoe: don't think that's possible
2020-07-10T09:01:01Z Harag: ok is there a way to maybe swop out two methods and runtime and then swop them back with the mop?
2020-07-10T09:01:15Z phoe: sure, it is possible, but it does sound like a bit hassle
2020-07-10T09:01:25Z Harag: yes it
2020-07-10T09:01:27Z Harag: is
2020-07-10T09:01:45Z beach: Harag: Why don't you tell us what it is that you want to accomplish instead.
2020-07-10T09:01:51Z phoe: ^
2020-07-10T09:01:52Z Harag: I want to temporarily clobber a print-object method
2020-07-10T09:02:08Z phoe: I think you can use a custom pprint-dispatch for tat
2020-07-10T09:02:10Z phoe: that*
2020-07-10T09:02:44Z Harag: yeah but I want to clobber it for readability not pretty print
2020-07-10T09:03:29Z beach: Heh, you need the "Incless" library that is not finished yet, but that would allow you to play tricks like that.
2020-07-10T09:03:52Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T09:04:28Z Harag: beach: so in theory how would Incless do it?
2020-07-10T09:06:34Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T09:11:31Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T09:11:46Z rogersm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T09:12:37Z Harag: is incless taking over printing "control" using shadowing and then giving its own implementation?
2020-07-10T09:12:58Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T09:14:12Z freshpassport quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T09:16:38Z rogersm_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T09:19:04Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T09:19:42Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-10T09:20:04Z Guest_5 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-10T09:20:56Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-10T09:24:04Z beach: Harag: Incless is meant to be an implementation-independent printer.
2020-07-10T09:24:25Z beach: So the print-object methods trampoline to a generic function print-object-using-client.
2020-07-10T09:24:48Z beach: And the latter takes a CLIENT object in addition to the object and the stream.
2020-07-10T09:25:18Z beach: So you would put a method on print-object-using-client with a client that alters the printing as you want.
2020-07-10T09:25:49Z phoe: beach: is the default client dynamically rebindable?
2020-07-10T09:25:52Z beach: Then when you want the altered behavior, you bind INCLESS:*CLIENT* to the one that behaves like that.
2020-07-10T09:26:01Z phoe: like, (let ((incless:*default-client* (make-my-client))) (print-stuff))
2020-07-10T09:26:02Z beach: Yes, exactly.
2020-07-10T09:26:03Z phoe: oh
2020-07-10T09:26:04Z phoe: yes
2020-07-10T09:27:02Z beach: I think we (collectively) are getting the hang of creating implementation-independent libraries. :)
2020-07-10T09:27:31Z beach: Eclector, Trucler, Cleavir, first-class global environments, ...
2020-07-10T09:31:15Z phoe: ha
2020-07-10T09:31:38Z phoe: you don't need to make a fancy name for first-class global environment because "class" already contains the "cl" substring that is required
2020-07-10T09:32:00Z beach: Too late.  It will be called "Clostrum".
2020-07-10T09:32:08Z phoe: oh
2020-07-10T09:32:38Z beach: It's an alternative spelling of "claustrum" which means an enclosed space.
2020-07-10T09:32:58Z beach: As in "claustrophobia" etc.
2020-07-10T09:35:33Z flip214 is reminded of colostrum......   sorry about that
2020-07-10T09:43:30Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-10T09:44:19Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-10T09:48:52Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T09:49:53Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-10T09:54:37Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T09:56:01Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T09:56:28Z beach: flip214: "reminded"?  I think you just did a Google search.
2020-07-10T10:04:03Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:10:01Z Lord_of_Life quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T10:10:58Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:12:39Z rogersm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:15:13Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T10:16:10Z RedMalle1 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:16:28Z RedMalle1 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-10T10:17:28Z rogersm_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T10:19:33Z nitrosun joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:19:52Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T10:20:31Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:26:13Z roze joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:26:34Z roze quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-10T10:30:07Z flip214: beach: no. My wife is a nurse, and daughter is becoming one, so I'm hearing stuff like that a lot.
2020-07-10T10:31:31Z Harag: beach: i dont think Incless will work in ecl
2020-07-10T10:31:42Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:31:43Z beach: Why is that?
2020-07-10T10:31:47Z Harag: I can get the shadow approach to work in sbcl
2020-07-10T10:31:50Z Harag: but not in ecl
2020-07-10T10:32:14Z beach: Who said anything about shadow?
2020-07-10T10:32:15Z Harag: ecl just ignores your overriding functions and calls its own
2020-07-10T10:32:42Z jackdaniel: if there is a problem with dynamic bindings please report a bug. unless you mean, that ecl inlines some functions?
2020-07-10T10:32:48Z jackdaniel: then you need to declare them notinline
2020-07-10T10:32:56Z Harag: mmm ok
2020-07-10T10:33:30Z phoe: Harag: which functions are you trying to shadow?
2020-07-10T10:33:59Z Harag: print-object
2020-07-10T10:34:01Z phoe: if you are trying to FLET/LABELS/MACROLET any function or macro or special operator from the CL package, it's undefined behavior
2020-07-10T10:34:04Z phoe: well then
2020-07-10T10:34:07Z phoe: that's not allowed
2020-07-10T10:34:20Z Harag: not doing it in labels etc
2020-07-10T10:34:27Z phoe: oh? how do you do it then?
2020-07-10T10:35:00Z Harag: just testing how incless does it
2020-07-10T10:35:10Z Harag: trying to understand
2020-07-10T10:35:22Z phoe: AFAIK incless defines its own #'incless:print-object
2020-07-10T10:35:42Z phoe: it's up to the implementation to hook that into its own printing system
2020-07-10T10:36:18Z phoe: just like eclector defines its own #'eclector.reader:read
2020-07-10T10:39:29Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:42:58Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T10:43:04Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-10T10:48:34Z nitrosun quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-10T10:49:30Z duuqnd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T10:52:14Z duuqnd joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:52:28Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:54:45Z phoe: random note: today, I have removed the last TODO from my upcoming condition system book
2020-07-10T10:54:53Z beach: Great!
2020-07-10T10:55:07Z beach: The deadline was modified, no?
2020-07-10T10:55:12Z beach: Initially, it was very tight.
2020-07-10T10:55:14Z phoe: yes
2020-07-10T10:55:23Z phoe: it's been stretched a little bit, and I feel somewhat terrible for it
2020-07-10T10:55:38Z phoe: but it seems like after my editors have a go at the last bits of text I've introduced, it is ready to go into production
2020-07-10T10:55:54Z beach: Nah, don't worry about it.  They must be used to it.
2020-07-10T10:56:08Z phoe: I secretly hope that they are used to it
2020-07-10T10:56:24Z phoe: ;; and I feel even more terrible for exhibiting such hope
2020-07-10T10:56:25Z beach: Wow, they actually have editors read the stuff?  That is unusual these days.
2020-07-10T10:56:44Z phoe: beach: I actually got a very good one from Apress
2020-07-10T10:56:57Z beach: Excellent. Most publishing companies will print whatever you give them.
2020-07-10T10:57:31Z beach: And the average quality of published books is a proof of that.
2020-07-10T10:58:13Z phoe: I think that most of the heavy lifting has been done by the Lisp community though; digikar and gendl and heisig and adlai and splittist and SAL9000 and *way* *WAY* too many people to count here have done a #.most-positive-fixnum amount of work with beating my words into proper shape
2020-07-10T10:58:36Z beach: Nice!
2020-07-10T10:58:38Z SAL9000: thanks :-)
2020-07-10T10:58:53Z phoe: to the point where the editor from Apress didn't really have anything to do, save for restructuring the chapters in the way that is acceptable by Apress and noticing like two or three minor issues that weren't caught earlier
2020-07-10T10:58:59Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-10T10:59:08Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T10:59:09Z SAL9000: (I really should get around to putting a reviewer blurb thing into that issue before it's too late)
2020-07-10T10:59:13Z phoe: so, frankly, the book's been edited by the Lisp community
2020-07-10T10:59:35Z phoe: and that fact brings a big ole smile to my face
2020-07-10T10:59:36Z phoe: SAL9000: yes you should
2020-07-10T10:59:43Z beach: Yeah, that's great.
2020-07-10T11:00:40Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:02:46Z heisig: phoe: Congratulations on removing your last TODO!  I am very excited about this book.
2020-07-10T11:03:12Z phoe: heisig: <3
2020-07-10T11:03:27Z heisig: I secretly hope that other language designers will read it and adapt their languages accordingly :)
2020-07-10T11:03:34Z phoe: like, literally, the Hall of Fame section of my book is so fat that I am grinning just looking at it
2020-07-10T11:03:40Z phoe: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1949#1949
2020-07-10T11:04:11Z phoe: and I bet $5 I am going to burn in shame because I forgot to add someone there
2020-07-10T11:04:21Z phoe: there's been just too many contributors
2020-07-10T11:04:28Z phoe: and I really really love that fact
2020-07-10T11:04:47Z SAL9000: ...That is a lot of people! <3
2020-07-10T11:05:42Z phoe: a lot lot lot of people
2020-07-10T11:06:28Z SAL9000: so long as it isn't "alot" of people http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
2020-07-10T11:07:19Z phoe: SAL9000: you made me open the book and nervously do a C-s alot
2020-07-10T11:07:39Z SAL9000: :-)
2020-07-10T11:07:54Z TMA: "alot
2020-07-10T11:08:57Z SAL9000: I assume CLCS is free from alot infestation?
2020-07-10T11:09:03Z phoe: yes
2020-07-10T11:09:09Z SAL9000 readies the heavy flamer and exterminator's suit just in case
2020-07-10T11:09:17Z TMA: " is a fine verb though. phoe, do not be concerned if you find it (in the verb position)
2020-07-10T11:09:25Z phoe: I expected that it wouldn't contain any, but sweet golly my heart rate just jumped
2020-07-10T11:09:41Z phoe: like, just in case
2020-07-10T11:09:58Z SAL9000: Always better to double-check. Sorry about panicking you that much
2020-07-10T11:11:40Z phoe: no, it was a good kind of panic
2020-07-10T11:13:35Z rogersm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:15:23Z i0_202365 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T11:18:10Z rogersm_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T11:19:08Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:19:45Z beach: phoe: That is a very impressive list.  You got comments even from Kent Pitman?
2020-07-10T11:23:49Z phoe: beach: *SOMEHOW*, I did.
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z shangul quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z Cymew quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z TMA quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z froggey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z oldtopman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z elderK quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z DGASAU quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z flazh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z kbtr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z cdegroot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z kingcons quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:23:52Z wigust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-10T11:24:00Z phoe: He's a busybusybusy person so it took a lot of work, but I got some, yes.
2020-07-10T11:24:17Z beach: Oh, you asked him?  Great!
2020-07-10T11:25:14Z phoe: yep
2020-07-10T11:25:25Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z Cymew joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z TMA joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z oldtopman joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z kingcons joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z kbtr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z cdegroot joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z mood joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:27:30Z wigust joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:30:12Z pedrof joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:40:47Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:43:51Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T11:48:49Z pedrof quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T11:50:57Z moon-child quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-10T11:54:52Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T11:55:49Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T11:57:05Z jonatack quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T11:57:38Z papachan joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:03:13Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:04:07Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:07:10Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T12:07:42Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T12:07:58Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T12:14:31Z rogersm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:18:58Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T12:19:04Z rogersm_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T12:23:03Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-10T12:25:01Z lonjil: Harag: Incless uses the CL package but shadows the standard printing related symbols. Thus, Incless can have its own symbols with the same names. This should work on all CL implementations.
2020-07-10T12:32:31Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T12:33:46Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:36:10Z lonjil: phoe: for implementations that want to use Incless, I believe that we are actually going to have a separate system and package that uses CL into Incless but without shadowing.
2020-07-10T12:37:30Z nikka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-10T12:37:42Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:39:00Z phoe: lonjil: oh! I see
2020-07-10T12:39:00Z jonatack quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T12:41:50Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:41:52Z nikka quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-10T12:42:04Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:46:21Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:48:25Z whiteline quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T12:48:26Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:48:44Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:51:08Z kmeow quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T12:51:12Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:54:56Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T12:57:24Z bendersteed joined #lisp
2020-07-10T12:57:37Z bendersteed quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T12:58:48Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:10:19Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:15:31Z rogersm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:19:56Z rogersm_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:22:16Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T13:22:25Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:22:25Z nikka quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:22:59Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:25:09Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:27:11Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:27:24Z Inoperable quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:27:25Z terrorjack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:27:40Z oleo__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:27:40Z drmeister quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:27:53Z drmeister_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:28:15Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:28:53Z Mawile joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:29:03Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:29:18Z asedeno quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:30:04Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:30:17Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:30:28Z chewbranca quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:30:28Z yottabyte quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:30:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:30:58Z Balooga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:30:58Z stux|RC quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:31:03Z kopiyka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T13:31:09Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:31:28Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:31:33Z asedeno joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:31:35Z Balooga joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:31:41Z yottabyte joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:31:51Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:32:06Z Archenoth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:32:06Z stux|RC-only quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:33:18Z In0perable joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:36:40Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:37:15Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:42:20Z roelj joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:44:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-10T13:44:42Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:45:51Z chrnybo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:47:28Z chrnybo: I usually work in latin-1, now I need unicode.  Connecting to lispworks with slime, and (code-char 3459) gives expected result in the repl.
2020-07-10T13:47:52Z chrnybo: (write (code-char 3459)) on the other hand, fails with:
2020-07-10T13:48:30Z chrnybo: Error (TYPE-ERROR) during printing: #<TYPE-ERROR 40200D4A1B>
2020-07-10T13:48:31Z chrnybo:  
2020-07-10T13:48:54Z phoe: hah
2020-07-10T13:48:55Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:48:57Z chrnybo: Care to teach me how to resolve=
2020-07-10T13:49:05Z phoe: let me try to reproduce
2020-07-10T13:50:13Z phoe: (print (code-char 3459)) works for me in the listener for LispWorks 7.1.2 Personal
2020-07-10T13:50:18Z phoe: don't know about slime
2020-07-10T13:52:10Z chrnybo: In a plain terminal, starting lispworks console, I get #\U+0D83.  Not so bad.
2020-07-10T13:52:53Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:52:53Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-10T13:52:53Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:52:54Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-10T13:54:27Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T13:54:47Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:55:29Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-10T13:57:17Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-10T13:57:41Z phoe: this looks like a slime error
2020-07-10T13:58:49Z Blukunfando quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T13:59:31Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:00:47Z phoe: something in slime seems to expect that the code-char 3459 is a base-char
2020-07-10T14:00:48Z phoe: and it's not
2020-07-10T14:00:52Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-10T14:01:19Z phoe: you could also try asking the lisp-hug mailgrou
2020-07-10T14:01:20Z phoe: p
2020-07-10T14:03:44Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:04:39Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-10T14:04:42Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T14:04:44Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:05:23Z prudentbot joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:12:54Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:13:26Z Inline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T14:15:38Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:16:27Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:20:52Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T14:25:03Z chrnybo: phoe: thanks for the hint on base-char, I'll resort to utputting to a file that I open with additional keys :external-format '(:utf-8 :eol-style :lf) :element-type 'character
2020-07-10T14:25:44Z chrnybo: The resulting stream takes unicode characters.
2020-07-10T14:27:13Z phoe: good
2020-07-10T14:28:22Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T14:30:13Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:33:57Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:35:39Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:39:20Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:41:15Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-10T14:42:43Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:44:31Z justache quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T14:45:57Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:52:29Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T14:52:52Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-10T14:59:51Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-10T15:01:28Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T15:02:58Z lnostdal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T15:11:54Z rogersm quit
2020-07-10T15:26:28Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T15:27:15Z Cymew quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-10T15:28:52Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T15:32:45Z edgar-rft quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T15:34:02Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-10T15:36:06Z vaporatorius__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T15:37:15Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-10T15:37:15Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-10T15:37:15Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-10T15:37:15Z vaporatorius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T15:37:48Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T15:41:36Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T15:41:56Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-10T15:44:40Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-10T15:49:35Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-10T15:53:15Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T15:53:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-10T15:53:56Z Christ0pher quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-10T15:54:55Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-10T15:55:11Z ark quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T15:56:45Z ark joined #lisp
2020-07-10T16:03:45Z tychoish: are there implementations that have reasonable cross-compiulation support/tooling, if I wanted to, say produce a darwin build on a linux system?
2020-07-10T16:05:41Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-10T16:06:49Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T16:07:20Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T16:07:51Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T16:08:39Z phoe: tychoish: it's an answer to an orthogonal question, but I use Travis to actually build my stuff for me on three OSes - see https://github.com/phoe-trash/furcadia-post-splitter/blob/master/.travis.yml
2020-07-10T16:17:09Z PuercoPop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T16:20:37Z adlai just fixed a chanl bug that has been pending for... nearly five years
2020-07-10T16:21:23Z adlai: it'd be awesome if anyone is able to confirm whether my fix works on their system as well
2020-07-10T16:25:06Z tychoish: adlai: nice!
2020-07-10T16:25:33Z tychoish: phoe: yeah, that's sort of the fall back solution, but I have an old laptop that I can hook up
2020-07-10T16:27:10Z adlai: if anyone wants to test: the official repository [in zkat's github account] still has the buggy code, and my version https://github.com/adlai/chanl/commit/a030296 has the fix
2020-07-10T16:30:19Z tychoish: adlai: I just used chanl for the first time last week, and really liked it (also hillariously zkat when to college with my partner, so its all very small world)
2020-07-10T16:30:27Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-10T16:30:55Z adlai: hilariously enough, zkat abandoned common lisp, and left me to maintain the projects >:(
2020-07-10T16:31:21Z tychoish: :( I'm glad you did though :)
2020-07-10T16:32:02Z adlai: jackdaniel: w.r.t. the :arguments bug, it appears to have already been reported
2020-07-10T16:32:35Z adlai ponders whether to attack the part of chanl that uses :arguments, or first see how difficult it'll be to get this working on ECL
2020-07-10T16:33:32Z adlai: this specific part of chanl is, as far as I can tell, not yet used anywhere else; it implements a method combination that builds a call to chanl's select macro, out of the applicable methods
2020-07-10T16:34:54Z Bike: you have a method combination that actually uses :arguments?
2020-07-10T16:36:05Z adlai: ehehe yes, it is defined and used in https://github.com/adlai/chanl/blob/master/src/actors.lisp
2020-07-10T16:36:10Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-10T16:36:21Z Bike: aw man, i might have to get that working then...
2020-07-10T16:37:17Z adlai: The code in that file is intentionally in a separate package, and it has not yet been documented, because the tests are quite rudimentary.
2020-07-10T16:39:06Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T16:40:52Z adlai: I've been using an earlier version of this in scalpl for a while. Maybe I should first update that to use the latest version.
2020-07-10T16:42:23Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-10T16:45:46Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-10T16:46:01Z efm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T16:53:47Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-10T16:55:39Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-10T16:56:56Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-10T16:59:21Z Bike: what's the "fix me! def mac r/o"
2020-07-10T16:59:35Z phoe: a cry for help
2020-07-10T17:00:19Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:00:26Z adlai: the missing macro actually already exists, in closer2mop
2020-07-10T17:00:38Z Bike: yeah but what is it
2020-07-10T17:00:56Z Bike: like a macro to classify the methods without using the define-method-combination mechanism?
2020-07-10T17:01:16Z adlai: a macro that assembles the standard method according to qualifiers
2020-07-10T17:01:45Z Bike: i don't understand. what's the c2mop macro?
2020-07-10T17:01:47Z adlai: at this point, The Right Thing is probably to have a separate chanl/actors system, that depends on closer2mop
2020-07-10T17:02:38Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T17:03:54Z adlai: hmm, no, it's in a different library: https://github.com/sellout/method-combination-utilities/blob/master/src/definition-helpers.lisp
2020-07-10T17:04:51Z Bike: and you'd be using wrap-primary-form, since you have send and recv as well?
2020-07-10T17:05:34Z adlai: correct
2020-07-10T17:06:33Z adlai: meanwhile, it appears that chanl has an unrelated bug, that happens only on SBCL
2020-07-10T17:07:57Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-10T17:08:05Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:09:13Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:11:20Z adlai: it is actually a little baffling that this test passes on CCL!
2020-07-10T17:12:25Z adlai: this should not be implementation-dependent behavior >_<
2020-07-10T17:14:05Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:17:59Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T17:18:09Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:18:18Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T17:18:27Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-10T17:18:41Z adlai: ahh, wonderful, it is deterministic, just has an implementation-dependent failure probability
2020-07-10T17:20:08Z phoe: (defvar *failure-probability #+sbcl 0.1 #+ccl 0.3 #+ecl 0.02 #-(or sbcl ccl ecl) (error "Failures not supported."))
2020-07-10T17:21:28Z adlai: itym #-(or sbcl ccl ecl) 1
2020-07-10T17:21:43Z adlai hands phoe a missing earmuff, too
2020-07-10T17:21:48Z phoe: thanks
2020-07-10T17:21:51Z phoe: adlai: no, it's not 1
2020-07-10T17:22:03Z phoe: it cannot be 1 because we do not support failures on this implementation
2020-07-10T17:22:08Z adlai: wonderful, adding a (sleep 0.5) before the failing test causes it to pass 100/100 times on both implementations
2020-07-10T17:22:13Z phoe: therefore we signal an error instead of returning a meaningful value
2020-07-10T17:22:25Z phoe: adlai: oh! it's the ugliest sort of errors then
2020-07-10T17:22:55Z adlai: I'm quite certain that this specific test should pass even without that sleep, though. It should not matter in this case which thread is started first, because they should synchronize.
2020-07-10T17:22:58Z jackdaniel: #+#.(random-elt '(ccl ecl sbcl))(error "surprise")
2020-07-10T17:23:05Z jackdaniel: adlai: thanks, I'll look into it
2020-07-10T17:23:21Z phoe: jackdaniel: risky
2020-07-10T17:23:27Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:23:39Z adlai: jackdaniel: I glanced at SBCL's code for the :arguments feature, and it is quite gnarly
2020-07-10T17:23:39Z frgo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T17:23:59Z jackdaniel: method combinations as specified are (suposedly) impossible to implement fully, i don't remember details
2020-07-10T17:24:17Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:24:40Z jackdaniel: afk
2020-07-10T17:24:41Z adlai: clhs 3.4.10
2020-07-10T17:24:41Z specbot: Define-method-combination Arguments Lambda Lists: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_dj.htm
2020-07-10T17:25:05Z adlai: the one and only place where 3.4.10 lambda lists can appear, is in the :arguments argument
2020-07-10T17:27:12Z adlai: well this is a nasty gotcha: &whole means slightly different things in d-m-c and defmacro lambda lists
2020-07-10T17:27:46Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T17:27:49Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T17:28:48Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:29:05Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T17:30:23Z Bike: you also can't just hand the list of arguments to a destructuring-bind or anything, it does different things depending on the generic function's lambda list
2020-07-10T17:33:17Z mbrumlow quit (Quit: %wubba lubba dub dub%)
2020-07-10T17:39:21Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T17:39:39Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:39:39Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-10T17:39:39Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:42:14Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T17:42:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:51:47Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-10T17:57:30Z Harag: lonjil: thanx, I figured it out eventually... my confusion came from doing stuff in the repl and not a package, I clobbering sbcl's print-object for hash tables, and got print functions it to run my version, which then decided if it wanted to deal with it or pass it on to sbcl... ecl would not let me clobber the method.
2020-07-10T17:58:30Z phoe: Harag: REPL has a package too
2020-07-10T17:59:59Z Harag: yes
2020-07-10T18:00:03Z Harag: :P
2020-07-10T18:00:40Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:01:42Z Harag: well at least I got to read some sbcl code and possible learned something ;)
2020-07-10T18:05:23Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-10T18:05:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:12:35Z efm quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-10T18:14:08Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:15:17Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:16:54Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-10T18:22:40Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:25:32Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T18:27:29Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:27:37Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T18:29:45Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:30:30Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T18:31:23Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:32:12Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:35:18Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-10T18:35:25Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:39:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-10T18:39:41Z prudentbot left #lisp
2020-07-10T18:39:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:46:07Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T18:48:37Z PuercoPop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T18:49:01Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:50:35Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-10T18:50:46Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:52:31Z nabataeus joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:52:41Z nabataeus left #lisp
2020-07-10T18:56:01Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T18:56:15Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:56:15Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-10T18:56:15Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:56:25Z krid joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:57:06Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-10T18:58:14Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T19:00:07Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T19:00:28Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-10T19:01:24Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-10T19:02:32Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T19:08:16Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-10T19:08:25Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-10T19:10:38Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-10T19:11:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T19:16:40Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-10T19:17:08Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-10T19:22:23Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-10T19:24:56Z MichaelRaskin joined #lisp
2020-07-10T19:30:42Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T19:31:28Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-10T19:39:11Z asarch: One stupid question: what is a sequence?
2020-07-10T19:39:37Z asarch: (gtk:gtk-builder-connect-signals) needs a sequence as its second argument
2020-07-10T19:39:56Z duuqnd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T19:43:16Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T19:45:37Z adlai: minion: tell asarch about clhs 17.1
2020-07-10T19:45:38Z minion: asarch: does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you?
2020-07-10T19:45:42Z adlai: clhs 17.1
2020-07-10T19:45:42Z specbot: Sequence Concepts: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/17_a.htm
2020-07-10T19:46:06Z asarch: She is not happy today
2020-07-10T19:58:27Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T20:00:20Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-10T20:04:25Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-10T20:06:13Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T20:10:51Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T20:11:12Z asarch: (gtk-builder-connect-signals-auto builder #.(find-package '#:gtk-demo))?
2020-07-10T20:11:39Z theseb: SICP made an interesting point...I was wondering why i don't see the use of DSLs being more widespread......SICP said if you look more carefully....many programs in other languages can be interpreted as evaluators and/or DSLs.....So the whole world may not being doing DSLs in lisp but roughly speaking they *are* creating lots of DSLs in an ad hoc manner in all kinds of languages yes?
2020-07-10T20:12:03Z theseb: so this lisp idea actual did "win"
2020-07-10T20:12:43Z justache quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T20:13:06Z phoe: theseb: there's tons of ideas that originated in Lisp and then "won"
2020-07-10T20:13:20Z phoe: for instance, have you heard of the IF/THEN/ELSE statement?
2020-07-10T20:14:10Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-10T20:14:29Z theseb: phoe: right...and garbage collection and lots of other stuff
2020-07-10T20:14:48Z phoe: all the way to symbolic macro systems that have made their way into Nim and Rust and wherever else
2020-07-10T20:14:49Z theseb: dynamic typing
2020-07-10T20:15:15Z phoe: What Made Lisp Different makes a decent list, if you can stand pg's proselytizing approach
2020-07-10T20:20:31Z markasoftware quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-07-10T20:20:31Z chrnybo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T20:20:47Z markasoftware joined #lisp
2020-07-10T20:20:47Z edgar-rft: my fingers are not fast enough for dynamic typing :-(
2020-07-10T20:20:57Z phoe: too dynamic for you?
2020-07-10T20:21:04Z phoe: try DECLARE TYPE
2020-07-10T20:21:38Z edgar-rft: I tried using a dynamo but it didn't work
2020-07-10T20:21:55Z theseb: phoe: how many developers will say...."doing DSLS sounds unwise and weird"...but then not realize every time they make a python/Rust/C/C++/Java program that processes structured inputs...they are themselves making all manner of "DSLs"
2020-07-10T20:22:12Z theseb: phoe: they don't realize what they're doing
2020-07-10T20:22:50Z phoe: theseb: I kind of don't think that approaching this issue from the position of superiority where Lispers know what they're doing and non-Lispers don't know what they're doing is going to achieve much
2020-07-10T20:23:11Z phoe: it might be beneficial to write some informative blogposts, or perhaps give a talk on the topic
2020-07-10T20:23:34Z C-16 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T20:23:39Z phoe: but starting the argument with "they don't know what they're doing" is IMO borderline delusional
2020-07-10T20:24:56Z phoe: it's true that the tools define what's possible with them, but I wouldn't treat all programmers who achieve amazing things with Rust/Python/Java++ as blind, nor I would disregard all the work that goes into perfecting their tools and knowledge
2020-07-10T20:27:47Z theseb: phoe: i didn't mean they weren't smart and didn't know stuff....i just meant they weren't *self-aware* of the fact they were doing DSLs as well
2020-07-10T20:29:16Z phoe: a DSL outside Lisp is very often called a "framework"
2020-07-10T20:29:24Z phoe: and a lot of these people are very aware that they are doing frameworks
2020-07-10T20:31:50Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-10T20:33:24Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-10T20:34:37Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T20:36:00Z theseb: phoe: ah yes...nice observation.....it is true i've heard about "frameworks" all my career
2020-07-10T20:36:09Z theseb: i can see how frameworks == DSLs..yes
2020-07-10T20:36:25Z theseb: see ...why did i need you to point that out?
2020-07-10T20:36:35Z phoe: a framework is a construction built atop the base language to ease some frequently used functionalities and make some other functionalities possible at all
2020-07-10T20:36:43Z phoe: while a DSL is a construction built atop the base language to ease some frequently used functionalities and make some other functionalities possible at all
2020-07-10T20:37:19Z phoe: it's just that the two terms are often used in culturally exclusive environments, so it is not trivial to make the parallel
2020-07-10T20:38:11Z theseb: yea
2020-07-10T20:39:59Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T20:45:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T20:46:45Z scymtym: a DSL built within/on top off a general purpose programming language is often called an internal DSL. this is in contrast to DSLs that are built with specialized tools such as language workbenches
2020-07-10T20:47:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-10T20:47:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-10T20:48:09Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-10T20:51:06Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T20:51:59Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T20:52:11Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-10T20:52:37Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-10T20:57:14Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T20:59:11Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T21:01:10Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T21:02:44Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-10T21:09:06Z v3ga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T21:09:19Z jesse1010 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T21:14:38Z tychoish: adlai: I ran the chanl tests locally from your branch, a few RACING cases failed, but they also maybe failed on master, so I'm not sure :/
2020-07-10T21:20:38Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T21:23:21Z rgherdt: b
2020-07-10T21:23:56Z rgherdt: oops, sorry, hit a key by mistake
2020-07-10T21:26:45Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-10T21:29:39Z adlai: tychoish: (format () "~{~^~A~}" (mapcar 'funcall '(lisp-implementation-type lisp-implementation-version machine-type machine-version)))
2020-07-10T21:30:32Z adlai: er, "~{~A~^ ~}" is the correct format string there
2020-07-10T21:31:50Z adlai: tychoish: thank you for the report, though. I'll take a closer look at the issues tomorrow... perhaps I'll write a test case that reports the exact state of the deadlock
2020-07-10T21:33:24Z tychoish: adlai "SBCL 2.0.3 X86-64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7600U CPU @ 2.80GHz"
2020-07-10T21:35:00Z adlai: tychoish: forgive my ignorance, but just double-checking: how many cores is that ?
2020-07-10T21:35:26Z adlai got the racing tests passing in a dual-core machine, maybe that has more?
2020-07-10T21:37:31Z ahungry quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-10T21:42:32Z Christ0pher quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T21:42:50Z tychoish: https://gist.github.com/tychoish/77e28c3696a276ef671a2eb0ee2b570f it's 4 logical cores, I think 2 real cores (it's a laptop 2017 lenovo x1 carbon running arch linux)
2020-07-10T21:42:51Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-10T21:47:44Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T21:50:06Z hdasch_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T21:51:57Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-10T21:53:07Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-10T21:53:07Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-10T21:55:36Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T21:55:56Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:03:36Z hdasch_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3~bpo9+1 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-10T22:03:57Z hdasch_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:10:19Z hdasch_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3~bpo9+1 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-10T22:10:31Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:10:57Z hdasch_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:11:06Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T22:11:52Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:12:22Z hdasch_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-10T22:18:44Z hdasch_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:19:09Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T22:29:09Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T22:35:34Z anticrisis joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:37:25Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T22:39:15Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:40:30Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:40:49Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:43:24Z nikka quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T22:43:25Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-10T22:43:37Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-10T22:43:50Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-10T22:46:12Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-10T22:46:47Z hdasch_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3~bpo9+1 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-10T22:48:13Z Harag: defsetf arranges for the temporary variables to be optimized out of the final result in cases where that is possible.
2020-07-10T22:48:43Z Harag: this causes sbcl to report "deleting unreachable code"
2020-07-10T22:51:14Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-10T22:54:14Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T22:55:37Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-10T22:56:38Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-10T22:56:57Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-10T22:56:59Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-10T22:57:17Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-10T23:10:25Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-10T23:10:56Z anticrisis quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-10T23:15:45Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-10T23:21:18Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-10T23:22:23Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-10T23:39:19Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-10T23:46:50Z rats joined #lisp
2020-07-10T23:55:48Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T23:56:12Z hdasch_ joined #lisp
2020-07-10T23:59:06Z rats quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T00:02:55Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T00:03:18Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T00:03:50Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T00:11:37Z hdasch quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-11T00:12:05Z jason_m joined #lisp
2020-07-11T00:13:53Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T00:14:08Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-11T00:14:54Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T00:22:20Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-11T00:23:01Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T00:34:59Z hdasch_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3~bpo9+1 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-11T00:35:22Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-11T00:39:13Z Misha_B left #lisp
2020-07-11T00:40:06Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T00:41:14Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T00:47:54Z JohnTalent quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-11T00:52:16Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T00:53:07Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:05:38Z epony quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T01:09:13Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-11T01:10:23Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:11:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:13:12Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-11T01:13:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T01:14:40Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:22:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T01:22:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:26:29Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-11T01:26:39Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-11T01:27:54Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:28:39Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:34:36Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:36:17Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:45:43Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:56:09Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-11T01:56:33Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:58:08Z rapeseeding joined #lisp
2020-07-11T01:59:16Z ayuce quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T01:59:49Z rapeseeding quit (K-Lined)
2020-07-11T02:01:13Z jw4 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T02:01:18Z rapeseeding joined #lisp
2020-07-11T02:01:23Z johnweldon joined #lisp
2020-07-11T02:01:33Z rapeseeding quit (K-Lined)
2020-07-11T02:02:09Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T02:05:14Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-11T02:05:22Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T02:08:17Z terpri__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T02:08:40Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T02:14:52Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-11T02:18:42Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T02:18:50Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-11T02:19:18Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T02:25:42Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T02:26:10Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T02:31:00Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T02:32:43Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T02:43:37Z krid quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-11T02:51:23Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-11T02:56:48Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T03:04:07Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-11T03:04:23Z karswell_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T03:07:57Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-11T03:11:05Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T03:13:12Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T03:13:31Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-11T03:13:34Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T03:14:35Z mbrumlow joined #lisp
2020-07-11T03:15:04Z shangul: On ARM, Common Lisp code is at least about 4x slower than C. I tried SBCL, CLISP, GCL and CCL.
2020-07-11T03:20:56Z damianyang joined #lisp
2020-07-11T03:30:46Z karswell_ is now known as karswell
2020-07-11T03:30:54Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-11T03:32:08Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T03:38:15Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-11T03:42:43Z beach: shangul: That is most likely due to the maintainers of the Common Lisp implementations spending less time on optimizing the code generation for ARM than the time they spent on x86.
2020-07-11T03:48:38Z Christ0pher quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T03:48:58Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T03:49:20Z ckonstanski quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T03:49:27Z shangul: beach, Good morning :)
2020-07-11T03:49:33Z shangul: beach, You might be right...
2020-07-11T03:51:19Z beach: The people working on C and C++ compilers have truly huge amounts of money and a huge number of people working on that stuff.  SBCL has maybe 5 people working as volunteers.
2020-07-11T03:53:13Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-11T03:57:24Z karlosz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T04:06:52Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T04:07:58Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T04:09:37Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T04:19:57Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T04:20:17Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-11T04:20:24Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-11T04:27:16Z asarch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T04:27:52Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T04:29:01Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T04:30:55Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-11T04:32:34Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-11T04:40:04Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-11T04:47:17Z shangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T04:47:52Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-11T04:58:08Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-11T04:59:27Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:06:58Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:16:28Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:17:31Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-11T05:17:48Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:18:33Z zooey quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-11T05:18:36Z zooey_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:32:32Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-11T05:32:48Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:41:10Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T05:44:41Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:49:54Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:53:31Z aap quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-11T05:53:40Z aap joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:55:27Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:56:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-11T05:56:41Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:58:52Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T05:59:14Z gjulio__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-11T06:01:21Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:01:30Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:01:32Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:01:32Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:01:32Z penguwin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:01:48Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:01:50Z rme joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:02:10Z penguwin joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:02:31Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:03:21Z vutral quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:03:21Z tfb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:03:24Z tfb_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:03:56Z avicenna_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:04:18Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:05:56Z avicenna quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:05:56Z avicenna_ is now known as avicenna
2020-07-11T06:06:54Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-11T06:08:05Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:08:54Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:12:01Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T06:13:35Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:14:11Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:15:50Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:16:27Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:19:26Z syminal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T06:22:16Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:25:57Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:31:41Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-11T06:32:44Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-11T06:34:04Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-11T06:39:42Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T06:46:53Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-11T06:50:13Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T06:55:30Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T07:02:28Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:03:57Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T07:04:16Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:08:48Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T07:09:19Z shangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T07:10:28Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:12:12Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-11T07:12:40Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:15:17Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:17:40Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T07:17:58Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:20:01Z agspathis joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:26:01Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:28:55Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:33:37Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-11T07:34:45Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:36:00Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T07:36:15Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:38:02Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T07:38:20Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:47:48Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:49:21Z gjulio_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T07:49:44Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:50:49Z damianyang quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-07-11T07:51:34Z nikka quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-11T07:52:55Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-11T07:54:05Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-11T07:58:25Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T07:58:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T08:03:15Z winny quit (Quit: rebooting ;))
2020-07-11T08:04:30Z winny joined #lisp
2020-07-11T08:09:24Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-11T08:24:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T08:25:46Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T08:26:05Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T08:26:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-11T08:33:57Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T08:42:39Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-11T08:48:07Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-11T08:52:53Z stoneglass joined #lisp
2020-07-11T08:55:46Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-11T08:56:40Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T08:59:01Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-11T09:00:27Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-11T09:14:42Z cosimone_ is now known as cosimone
2020-07-11T09:17:42Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T09:18:27Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-11T09:19:44Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-11T09:30:11Z mankaev quit
2020-07-11T09:30:18Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-11T09:34:55Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-11T09:39:42Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-11T09:42:30Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T09:44:32Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T09:44:57Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-11T09:45:11Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-11T09:54:14Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-11T09:56:19Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-11T10:00:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T10:00:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-11T10:05:01Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-11T10:17:53Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T10:19:58Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T10:21:14Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-11T10:21:54Z knuckles joined #lisp
2020-07-11T10:28:09Z frgo_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T10:30:40Z frgo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T10:41:46Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T10:42:33Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T10:43:07Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-11T10:45:54Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T10:47:32Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T10:48:37Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T10:54:53Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-11T10:55:30Z nikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T10:57:32Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-11T11:02:41Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-11T11:09:03Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-11T11:11:36Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-11T11:17:32Z Ekho quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-11T11:30:45Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-11T11:32:55Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T11:35:52Z Ekho joined #lisp
2020-07-11T11:36:51Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-11T11:38:24Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-11T11:50:34Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T11:54:03Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-11T11:58:09Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-11T12:00:23Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-11T12:03:03Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T12:03:20Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-11T12:05:22Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T12:09:07Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T12:10:55Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-11T12:11:51Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-11T12:15:38Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-11T12:22:48Z stoneglass quit (Quit: stoneglass)
2020-07-11T12:22:55Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-11T12:27:24Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T12:34:04Z libertyprime quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-11T12:43:35Z cosimone_ is now known as cosimone
2020-07-11T12:54:16Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-11T12:57:24Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T12:57:52Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-11T13:12:40Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-11T13:15:06Z lucasb joined #lisp
2020-07-11T13:21:20Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-11T13:22:56Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T13:23:50Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T13:25:14Z Xach feels the excitement!
2020-07-11T13:25:23Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T13:26:19Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-11T13:26:34Z karswell joined #lisp
2020-07-11T13:28:20Z jackdaniel: because people stopped talking, so they probably code? :)
2020-07-11T13:34:02Z Xach: I hope to coax out a new Quicklisp dist release today
2020-07-11T13:34:49Z beach: Congratulations!
2020-07-11T13:35:38Z jackdaniel: fingers crossed!
2020-07-11T13:35:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-11T13:40:14Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T13:40:51Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T13:48:42Z Xach: so very crossed
2020-07-11T13:54:13Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T13:55:05Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T13:55:50Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T14:00:14Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T14:00:30Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:00:53Z agspathis quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50))
2020-07-11T14:01:46Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:07:59Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:08:42Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T14:15:08Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:15:42Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T14:18:49Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-11T14:19:12Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T14:19:13Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:19:21Z igemnace quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-11T14:19:33Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:19:35Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:19:35Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-11T14:19:35Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:27:47Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T14:28:16Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:29:24Z Christ0p1er joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:32:48Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:34:02Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T14:42:12Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:42:54Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T14:46:58Z efm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-11T14:48:30Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T14:50:14Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2020-07-11T14:53:51Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:55:03Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-11T14:58:41Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:10:58Z Christ0p1er quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T15:11:45Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:17:47Z rats joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:21:19Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T15:23:08Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:34:03Z rats quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-07-11T15:34:33Z rats joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:34:35Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:35:53Z edgar-rft quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-11T15:36:44Z Mawile quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T15:36:57Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:39:16Z hiroaki quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T15:39:38Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:39:56Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:42:37Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T15:43:42Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T15:46:36Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T15:47:21Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:53:26Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T15:54:14Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:56:35Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-11T15:59:20Z random-nick quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2020-07-11T16:04:32Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-11T16:05:00Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T16:05:36Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T16:15:13Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-11T16:15:58Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T16:16:11Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T16:19:53Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T16:20:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-11T16:20:41Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T16:23:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T16:23:46Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T16:28:48Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T16:28:51Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T16:40:38Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T16:40:51Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T16:53:28Z gjulio_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T16:53:52Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T16:54:50Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T16:55:10Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T17:00:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-11T17:01:47Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T17:07:48Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-11T17:08:07Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T17:15:10Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T17:15:41Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T17:27:21Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T17:28:14Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T17:45:14Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-11T17:47:58Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T17:50:44Z narimiran quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-11T17:50:47Z ark quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.4 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-11T17:52:39Z Christ0pher quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2020-07-11T17:52:54Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T17:53:11Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T17:54:22Z userone quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T17:55:10Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-11T18:05:48Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-11T18:05:54Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-11T18:06:10Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T18:06:41Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-11T18:07:55Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T18:17:27Z SAL9000: Silly question, perhaps, but has there been work on porting something like the Common Lisp pretty-printing system to C++?
2020-07-11T18:20:14Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-11T18:21:06Z dlowe: The intersection of people who care about Common Lisp pretty printing and the people who want to do a complex, involved pretty-printing system in C++ is vanishingly small.
2020-07-11T18:21:41Z dlowe: Thank goodness SPICE lisp had money and people for a while
2020-07-11T18:23:33Z PuercoPop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T18:25:22Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T18:26:44Z tychoish: https://github.com/clasp-developers/clasp I feel like those folks are the right place to start, but I don't actually knowe about any more specifics
2020-07-11T18:27:01Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-11T18:27:19Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-11T18:29:28Z Bike: we haven't ported the lisp pretty printing system to C++, since if we want to pretty print from C++ we can just call the lisp functions.
2020-07-11T18:29:50Z Bike: also the lisp pretty printer is based pretty heavily on both special variables and runtime type discrimination, neither of which are all that C++
2020-07-11T18:32:07Z tychoish: Bike are you a clasp human?
2020-07-11T18:32:19Z Bike: i am a developer on clasp.
2020-07-11T18:32:25Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T18:33:15Z edgar-rft: you "only" need to implement Common Lisp in C++ and you have pretty-printing for free :-)
2020-07-11T18:34:14Z tychoish: Nice! (sorry, I'm newish here so I don't really know people yet, and Ididn't mean to speak for you, just seemed like the right connections, seems like a cool project. :))
2020-07-11T18:34:23Z Bike: no worries.
2020-07-11T18:40:38Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-11T18:40:53Z SAL9000: dlowe, Bike: long story short, $work involves maintaining a very complex system where I end up missing the CL pretty-print features. I was thinking that maybe someone had already done something similar that I could get inspiration from.
2020-07-11T18:41:23Z Bike: which features do you have in mind? because when i think of the pretty printer i think of things like indenting LET blocks correctly, which you're probably not worried about
2020-07-11T18:41:28Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-11T18:41:58Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T18:42:35Z SAL9000: To be clear, I'm thinking about the low-level pretty-print infrastructure which is driven by http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_ppr_fi.htm et. al.
2020-07-11T18:43:57Z Bike: oh, that stuff. well i can tell you clasp implements those in lisp, and we got it from ecl so there's probably nothing there either.
2020-07-11T18:44:20Z SAL9000: I have a whole lot of data structures, and almost all of them have a virtual char* toString() {} which I'd love to use those things in
2020-07-11T18:45:30Z SAL9000: any ideas on how to handle the contextual information (current column, etc.) in a sane way?
2020-07-11T18:46:07Z SAL9000: I know how to implement the actual pretty-printing itself, it's making it fit into the C++ model that is more troublesome :(
2020-07-11T18:58:06Z p_l would place bets how soon SAL9000 would use thread-local globals or just plain globals for a bunch of things but it would be sucker's bet
2020-07-11T18:58:46Z SAL9000: p_l: it's that or virtual char* toString2(PPrintEnv* env = null) {}
2020-07-11T18:59:10Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T18:59:26Z p_l: SAL9000: for reasons of "Python can't into scope" I have way too many "global <something>" :|
2020-07-11T18:59:54Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T19:00:15Z _paul0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T19:00:17Z SAL9000: don't Python globals only need that if you have a local with the same name?
2020-07-11T19:00:37Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-11T19:02:06Z p_l: SAL9000: I found out empirically that I could not trust symbol resolution from inside a function/method
2020-07-11T19:02:07Z p_l: :|
2020-07-11T19:02:11Z SAL9000: :(
2020-07-11T19:02:31Z p_l: also dealing with lack of restarts
2020-07-11T19:02:49Z SAL9000: having helped phoe with CLCS I miss those in both C++ and Python even more now
2020-07-11T19:04:24Z p_l: I run so many functions inside loops now that have try/catch block inside in order to restart thing :|
2020-07-11T19:04:52Z SAL9000: maybe you can do some unholy tricks with nested functions and @decorators?
2020-07-11T19:07:38Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T19:10:29Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T19:11:01Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-11T19:18:59Z p_l: some stuff is handled by decorator from a library called "retry" :|
2020-07-11T19:19:34Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-11T19:31:46Z choegusung joined #lisp
2020-07-11T19:50:09Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-11T19:53:24Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T19:57:38Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-11T20:02:35Z Xach: i hoped in vain, some weird problems in today's dist building.
2020-07-11T20:21:18Z liberliver quit (Quit: liberliver)
2020-07-11T20:27:46Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T20:30:15Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-11T20:33:01Z choegusung quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-11T20:33:54Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-11T20:34:22Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T20:36:43Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T20:38:55Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-11T20:40:25Z varbhat joined #lisp
2020-07-11T20:41:04Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-11T20:47:03Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-11T20:48:04Z userone quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-11T20:49:12Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-11T20:50:30Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-11T20:51:51Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-11T20:53:26Z userone left #lisp
2020-07-11T20:53:58Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-11T20:58:38Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T20:58:45Z userone joined #lisp
2020-07-11T20:59:15Z userone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-11T21:01:03Z johnweldon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-11T21:02:59Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-11T21:05:30Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-11T21:05:51Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-11T21:08:41Z ogs joined #lisp
2020-07-11T21:12:08Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T21:21:13Z rats quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-11T21:25:30Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-11T21:26:20Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-11T21:27:00Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-11T21:30:01Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-11T21:30:01Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-11T21:30:01Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-11T21:32:14Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T21:33:12Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T21:42:06Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-11T21:46:02Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T21:47:00Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-11T21:47:01Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-11T21:47:43Z mankaev quit
2020-07-11T21:47:51Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-11T21:50:07Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-11T21:51:08Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T21:51:37Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T22:15:11Z ogs quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-11T22:15:59Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-11T22:16:53Z rgherdt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-11T22:18:33Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T22:24:27Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T22:29:17Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T22:29:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-11T22:30:04Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T22:31:58Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T22:35:02Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T22:41:59Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-11T22:44:52Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T22:44:58Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-11T22:50:21Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-11T22:55:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T23:07:29Z emerald joined #lisp
2020-07-11T23:08:18Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-11T23:10:42Z knuckles quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-11T23:10:50Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T23:11:44Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-11T23:22:20Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-11T23:22:52Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-11T23:35:31Z emerald quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-11T23:39:03Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-11T23:41:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-11T23:41:49Z emerald joined #lisp
2020-07-11T23:42:01Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-11T23:43:20Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-11T23:44:09Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T00:01:00Z emerald quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T00:11:00Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T00:11:22Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T00:18:57Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-12T00:20:37Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-12T00:31:04Z markong quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T00:51:40Z sympt joined #lisp
2020-07-12T00:55:06Z rats joined #lisp
2020-07-12T00:58:25Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-12T00:58:54Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T01:01:18Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-12T01:03:39Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-12T01:07:00Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-12T01:08:00Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T01:08:02Z kc5tja joined #lisp
2020-07-12T01:08:29Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T01:09:40Z kc5tja: Hello; I'm a new-comer to Common Lisp (using SBCL).  I'm attempting to make a macro which synthesizes a keyword symbol from two strings.  For example, if I have two strings ABC and DEF, I'd like to create a keyword :ABCDEF.
2020-07-12T01:10:10Z kc5tja: Nothing I've tried so far seems to work (make-symbol...) (eval (format nil ":~A~A"...)) etc.
2020-07-12T01:10:13Z kc5tja: Any ideas?
2020-07-12T01:13:40Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-12T01:13:42Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T01:14:17Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T01:15:53Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T01:22:40Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-12T01:23:02Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T01:24:28Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T01:28:09Z tychoish: kc5tja: I think you can do something weird interning (intern "thing" "KEYWORD")
2020-07-12T01:30:40Z nikka quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T01:31:08Z dlowe: no macro required, even
2020-07-12T01:31:45Z tychoish: true!
2020-07-12T01:32:28Z kc5tja: Ahh, sweet!  I wasn't aware that intern took a package parameter.  Just looked it up on the hyperspec.  I think this will do the trick.  Thanks!!
2020-07-12T01:36:23Z kc5tja: dlowe: Well, I was trying to minimize the scope of the problem I'm running into.  The macro is to replace a (when) form intended to dispatch on keycode handling in a cl-sdl2 game I'm trying to write.  And failing.  hard.
2020-07-12T01:38:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-12T01:41:07Z dlowe: kc5tja: use macroexpand-1 to expand your new macro and then debug that code :) good luck.
2020-07-12T01:43:58Z kc5tja: I did that; it is textually the same.  This is what baffles me.
2020-07-12T01:44:31Z tychoish: why are you trying to replace a when form?
2020-07-12T01:44:39Z kc5tja: I'm going to meditate on this over a sub sandwich.  I'm positive it's going to be something really silly.
2020-07-12T01:44:42Z kc5tja: :)
2020-07-12T01:45:03Z kc5tja: There are going to be numerous when forms, all structurally similar.
2020-07-12T01:45:13Z kc5tja: I don't really *have* to, but I just think it cleans up the code.
2020-07-12T01:46:28Z tychoish: I'd use conds or switches?
2020-07-12T01:47:57Z kc5tja: tychoish: I think it'd still be highly repetitive.  See https://github.com/sam-falvo/equilibrium-cl/blob/master/eql.lisp#L116-L124
2020-07-12T01:49:04Z kc5tja: brb; grabbing food.  Thanks all for looking and helping.  It is appreciated!
2020-07-12T01:51:10Z tychoish: I wouldn't try and refactor so soon/early in a process. also if key events are objects, I'd just write methods and the dispatcher handle the low level stuff
2020-07-12T01:51:37Z tychoish: disclaimer: I'm just a guy, and also something of a newb myself, there might be better idioms for this too.
2020-07-12T01:53:51Z White_Flame: kc5tja: "scancode-~a" vs "SCANCODE-~a" is likely your problem
2020-07-12T01:54:29Z White_Flame: (symbol-name :scancode-w) shows that the actual interned string has been uppercased, which is the reader's default behavior as it consumes your source code
2020-07-12T01:55:00Z White_Flame: manually interning a string does not change its case
2020-07-12T01:55:32Z White_Flame: tychoish: multiple keys could be pressed for diagonals, while a COND would only process the first one matched
2020-07-12T01:55:51Z tychoish: oh good call
2020-07-12T01:56:01Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-12T01:56:15Z White_Flame: ah, although this might be edge triggered and dealing with 1 key event at a time, so you might be right
2020-07-12T01:56:47Z tychoish: it sure looks like the cond/when thing would be equivalent in that regard
2020-07-12T01:57:15Z tychoish: I also haven't really done this kind of event-based thing ever
2020-07-12T02:03:37Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-12T02:04:54Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-12T02:07:35Z i0_202365 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T02:09:31Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T02:10:34Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T02:11:37Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-12T02:23:26Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T02:27:15Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-12T02:36:50Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T02:37:42Z kc5tja: White_Flame: Yes! That was the issue!  Thank you for pointing that out.
2020-07-12T02:43:30Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-12T02:44:51Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T02:53:37Z rats quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2020-07-12T02:54:11Z john__ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T02:56:56Z ahungry quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T02:57:42Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T02:58:38Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-12T03:02:28Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-12T03:04:52Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-12T03:05:11Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-12T03:09:51Z kc5tja quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-12T03:19:46Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-12T03:24:47Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T03:29:57Z chipolux quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-12T03:30:20Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-12T03:34:02Z adlai: perfect timing, beach, I have just poured myself my first mug of coffee
2020-07-12T03:35:23Z beach: Good!  I am working on one myself.
2020-07-12T03:36:25Z adlai wonders at the marvels of ASDF fasl translations, that have caused fresh bugs to appear upon reboot
2020-07-12T03:37:18Z adlai wonders why ASDF has no force-compile restart
2020-07-12T03:38:37Z adlai: e.g., in this case, I "fixed the bug" by doing a force-compile-system on the specific system in which the error was signalled, followed by a regular load-op on the initially loaded system,
2020-07-12T03:41:31Z nmg joined #lisp
2020-07-12T03:43:36Z White_Flame: I presonally use rm -rf ~/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl*/home/white-flame/git
2020-07-12T03:43:52Z White_Flame: which keeps all the quicklisp fasls intact
2020-07-12T03:45:27Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-12T03:48:16Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T03:49:27Z adlai: the error message seemed to suggest that there was some fasl without an in-package form at its start; I was getting a failure to find a symbol, with a name from the internals of a dependency project, in the package that I had at the SLIME REPL
2020-07-12T03:50:34Z shangul: lispshell.surge.sh <- A free shell server with many CL implementations and related tools installed.
2020-07-12T03:52:04Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T03:53:03Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T03:53:14Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T03:54:26Z karayan joined #lisp
2020-07-12T03:54:54Z adlai is puzzled at how a static CDN can deliver shell access?
2020-07-12T03:55:36Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T03:56:13Z adlai: oh, that page is just the contact info for requesting shell access >_<
2020-07-12T03:57:10Z adlai: shangul: you are using that service for your experiments, instead of running CL locally?
2020-07-12T03:58:09Z adlai should probably not request an account, since he arguably is past the "wants to learn programming" stage, having reached the "regrets ever learning" stage
2020-07-12T04:00:03Z shangul: adlai, For experiments, unless I they are ARM specific, I use my laptop. But not always I have my laptop with myself.
2020-07-12T04:01:11Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:01:25Z shangul: Also this is for people other than myself. Installing SLIME in Windows is not easy and straightforward. Also users can try this before actually running Linux on their computer with other tools installed.
2020-07-12T04:02:44Z shangul: adlai, Another usage of my server is bypassing firewall blocks. I run sshd on port 443 instead of 22. So you can connect to it from anywhere(sometimes port 22 on some internet connections for example in hotels is blocked)
2020-07-12T04:03:20Z shangul: You can connect to my server and from there connect to anywhere you want.
2020-07-12T04:03:49Z adlai: minion: portacle?
2020-07-12T04:03:49Z minion: portacle: Portacle is a complete IDE for Common Lisp that you can take with you on a USB stick https://shinmera.github.io/portacle/
2020-07-12T04:04:01Z shangul: hmm
2020-07-12T04:04:23Z nmg quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-12T04:05:07Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-12T04:05:12Z shangul: adlai, nice!
2020-07-12T04:05:21Z adlai: one last clarification question, and then if I have further questions, I'd rather discuss this issue in PM to unclutter the channel logs:
2020-07-12T04:05:24Z shangul: I am emailing this to my friend
2020-07-12T04:05:43Z shangul: adlai, feel free to PM me.
2020-07-12T04:05:45Z nmg joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:05:52Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:06:18Z adlai: the "soft limits" that are outlined in that landing page include a total CPU time, is that per a certain denominator of wall clock time, or total total that you can ever use?
2020-07-12T04:06:36Z nmg left #lisp
2020-07-12T04:10:05Z adlai: thank you for the offer to PM
2020-07-12T04:10:58Z shangul: I am not sure but I think it is the time which you can use 100% of CPU. After you reach the limit, the CPU usage of your processes will reduce but they won't get stopped. Let me ask in ##linux to make sure.
2020-07-12T04:17:36Z nmg joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:25:17Z nmg quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-12T04:25:18Z i0_202365 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T04:28:08Z nmg joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:29:27Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:29:54Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T04:31:39Z adlai: aha, there is indeed no call to cl:in-package at the start of chanl's shim src/trivial-cas.lisp
2020-07-12T04:33:18Z adlai wonders what to do about this, since the shim is currently loaded ~before~ the package.lisp
2020-07-12T04:33:50Z emerald joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:40:25Z emerald quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-12T04:41:08Z emerald joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:43:07Z varbhat quit (Quit: varbhat)
2020-07-12T04:43:14Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-12T04:44:29Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-12T04:44:45Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:44:48Z lucasb quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-12T04:47:57Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:58:01Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-12T04:58:19Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-12T04:58:32Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T04:59:07Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T05:01:25Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-12T05:01:37Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-12T05:05:50Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-12T05:11:14Z emerald quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-12T05:13:22Z emerald joined #lisp
2020-07-12T05:13:52Z john__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T05:22:36Z nokdoot joined #lisp
2020-07-12T05:22:51Z nokdoot left #lisp
2020-07-12T05:28:59Z emerald quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-12T05:29:39Z PuercoPop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T05:39:37Z jeremiah joined #lisp
2020-07-12T05:40:05Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-12T05:41:37Z jeremiah left #lisp
2020-07-12T05:41:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-12T05:42:03Z jlarocco joined #lisp
2020-07-12T05:48:22Z marusich joined #lisp
2020-07-12T05:50:51Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-12T06:06:55Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-12T06:08:11Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-12T06:10:46Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T06:25:19Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-12T06:27:28Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-12T06:28:54Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-12T06:29:56Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T06:31:55Z stoneglass joined #lisp
2020-07-12T06:32:27Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-12T06:33:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-12T06:42:47Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T06:47:42Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T06:50:36Z gjulio__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T06:53:09Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T07:06:52Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-12T07:07:52Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-12T07:08:26Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-12T07:15:13Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-12T07:15:13Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-12T07:15:13Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-12T07:19:48Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-12T07:20:16Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-12T07:37:44Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T07:39:12Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-12T07:39:34Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T07:40:43Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-12T07:44:07Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-12T07:48:26Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-12T08:00:29Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-12T08:02:43Z stoneglass quit (Quit: stoneglass)
2020-07-12T08:04:06Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T08:08:29Z shangul: Has anyone got a lisp related domain so that they can give me a subdomain?
2020-07-12T08:13:20Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T08:14:05Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T08:20:13Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T08:20:45Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-12T08:21:31Z z3t0: shangul: I don't have one. But just curious, what are you planning on using it for?
2020-07-12T08:21:48Z shangul: z3t0, lispshell.surge.sh
2020-07-12T08:25:00Z z3t0: Ah, that's a really amazing initiative! Thank you for doing it.
2020-07-12T08:35:04Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2020-07-12T08:48:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T08:50:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-12T08:51:42Z nikka quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-12T08:53:40Z karayan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T09:00:31Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-12T09:01:44Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-12T09:12:11Z izh_ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T09:12:38Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-12T09:19:02Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-12T09:30:22Z izh_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-12T09:39:44Z nikka quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T09:40:38Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-12T09:42:23Z jackdaniel: is there a way to create a reference to the  forward-referenced-class without calling (defclass foo (forward-class) ()) and accessing superclasses of foo?
2020-07-12T09:43:15Z jackdaniel: (it's not super important, I'm just curious)
2020-07-12T09:44:54Z beach: You should be able to use the underlying infrastructure.  Like ensure-class, or make-instance in the worst case.
2020-07-12T09:46:17Z jackdaniel: ah, right, and that even works, thank you :)
2020-07-12T09:46:21Z jackdaniel: (defvar *xxx* (c2mop:ensure-class 'foo :metaclass 'c2mop:forward-referenced-class))
2020-07-12T09:46:31Z beach: Anytime. :)
2020-07-12T09:46:32Z jackdaniel: (eq *xxx* (defclass foo () ())) ;-> T
2020-07-12T09:47:05Z jackdaniel: I didn't think about it because I thought that this would be non-conforming, but otoh why would it be
2020-07-12T09:47:20Z beach: Yeah, no reason.
2020-07-12T09:53:02Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-12T09:54:21Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2020-07-12T09:57:10Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T10:07:18Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-12T10:08:14Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T10:10:21Z isBEKaml quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-12T10:29:25Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T10:31:25Z rats joined #lisp
2020-07-12T10:32:49Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-12T10:42:33Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T10:45:36Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T10:45:42Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-12T10:59:49Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T11:00:33Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-12T11:02:07Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T11:04:34Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T11:06:37Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-12T11:13:30Z Retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-12T11:16:14Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-12T11:29:23Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-12T11:31:25Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-12T11:32:23Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-12T11:35:57Z nikka quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-12T11:38:03Z madage quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-12T11:38:14Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-12T11:39:23Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-12T11:39:44Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-12T11:49:33Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-12T11:49:58Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-12T11:50:10Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T11:51:18Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:00:52Z ssd532 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-12T12:00:54Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T12:01:46Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:07:27Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-12T12:09:37Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:16:10Z TMA quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T12:20:26Z luna_is_here quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2020-07-12T12:21:40Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T12:21:54Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:31:37Z Xach: tychoish: http://report.quicklisp.org/2020-07-12/failure-report/cl-grip.html
2020-07-12T12:34:00Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T12:36:17Z terpri__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T12:36:29Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:36:49Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:38:38Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:43:44Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:45:00Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:45:31Z random-nick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T12:45:47Z terpri__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T12:46:11Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:46:17Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-12T12:52:18Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-12T13:02:48Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T13:07:50Z q3d joined #lisp
2020-07-12T13:12:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-12T13:13:46Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T13:15:12Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T13:18:09Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T13:18:17Z nikka joined #lisp
2020-07-12T13:19:21Z nikka quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-12T13:21:19Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-12T13:32:36Z abcdef joined #lisp
2020-07-12T13:32:49Z abcdef left #lisp
2020-07-12T13:33:19Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T13:34:25Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T13:36:49Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-12T13:39:50Z rats quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2020-07-12T13:54:20Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T13:57:34Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-12T13:58:43Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T14:03:29Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T14:04:41Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T14:06:00Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-12T14:06:08Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-12T14:07:12Z Retropikzel quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-12T14:15:03Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-12T14:17:09Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T14:17:52Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T14:18:50Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T14:22:31Z roelj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T14:25:17Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2020-07-12T14:33:30Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-12T14:34:22Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-12T14:42:28Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T14:43:06Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T14:47:08Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-12T14:47:26Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-12T14:57:50Z efm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T14:59:10Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T14:59:41Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T15:00:08Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-12T15:00:15Z contrapunctus quit (K-Lined)
2020-07-12T15:00:15Z bhartrihari quit (K-Lined)
2020-07-12T15:00:29Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-12T15:01:15Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-12T15:03:53Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-12T15:09:39Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-12T15:13:50Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-12T15:29:27Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-12T15:35:57Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-12T15:41:52Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T15:42:18Z liberliver quit (Quit: liberliver)
2020-07-12T15:42:54Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T15:45:17Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-12T15:45:17Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-12T15:45:17Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-12T15:47:00Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-12T15:54:26Z Xach: well
2020-07-12T15:54:50Z Xach: it turns out my builds were failing because i could not require sb-posix at .asd load time
2020-07-12T15:54:53Z Xach: fixed!
2020-07-12T15:55:41Z tychoish: \o/
2020-07-12T16:00:36Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-12T16:03:09Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-12T16:03:49Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-12T16:10:25Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T16:11:46Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-12T16:12:30Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T16:12:30Z bitmapper quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T16:12:58Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-12T16:14:29Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-12T16:16:22Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T16:17:43Z efm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T16:17:46Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T16:22:22Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-12T16:26:09Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-12T16:37:52Z q3d quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T16:41:31Z gjulio__ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T16:42:24Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-12T16:44:00Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T17:08:01Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-12T17:09:31Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-12T17:09:47Z lalilulelo joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:10:22Z Christ0pher joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:15:05Z lalilulelo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-12T17:18:49Z Christ0pher quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T17:33:31Z lavaflow quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T17:36:12Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:36:51Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:37:37Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:38:12Z gjulio__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T17:41:39Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:45:08Z Inline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T17:45:40Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:49:04Z blandest joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:53:13Z choegusung joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:53:20Z choegusung quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-12T17:54:17Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-12T17:55:31Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-12T17:55:45Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:57:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-12T17:57:18Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:57:32Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-12T17:57:32Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-12T17:57:32Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-12T18:01:27Z Necktwi quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-12T18:10:38Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-12T18:14:31Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-12T18:15:14Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T18:15:27Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-12T18:19:42Z blandest quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T18:22:54Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-12T18:24:07Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-12T18:40:51Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-12T18:46:10Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-12T18:46:54Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-12T18:48:44Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-12T18:48:54Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T18:50:22Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T18:50:37Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-12T18:55:19Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-12T18:55:27Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T18:56:56Z JohnTalent joined #lisp
2020-07-12T18:57:22Z JohnTalent: Why isn't Lisp in the top 20 TIOBE? It's insanity.
2020-07-12T18:57:33Z bitmapper: it used to be
2020-07-12T18:57:36Z bitmapper: used to be #2
2020-07-12T18:57:50Z phoe: JohnTalent: USA DoD pulling out the plug
2020-07-12T19:00:38Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T19:03:02Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T19:03:48Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-12T19:08:50Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T19:13:11Z aeth: JohnTalent: In short, TIOBE is possibly one of the least reliable metrics of programming language popularity. Unfortunately, TIOBE persists through the years, and the slightly-better websites with brutal takedowns of TIOBE's methodology do not.
2020-07-12T19:13:50Z tychoish: the surprising thing is that it was 6 in 2000, I suspect.
2020-07-12T19:13:53Z aeth: It's essentially an impossible task, and whichever subset you use will bias you towards different things, like educational software, commercial software, new/trendy web software (Github popularity), etc.
2020-07-12T19:14:09Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-12T19:14:39Z aeth: On Github, JavaScript's the #1 language, in banks COBOL might still be the #1 language. How do you come up with something that reliably measures Github activity and bank activity? You don't. Especially banks.
2020-07-12T19:15:39Z tychoish: depends a lot on the bank.
2020-07-12T19:15:49Z aeth: Every field has its own language. Gamedev is a C++ monoculture, with a bit of Lua scripting sprinkled in. Microsoftland is full of C#, but nowhere else uses it. Machine learning is dominated by Python. There's no way to reliably measure cross-field use of programming language popularity, and do you even want to?
2020-07-12T19:16:47Z aeth: The languages you're forced to use for Android or iOS are probably pretty popular because of Android and iOS, but there's basically no reason to use them in environments where you get to choose.
2020-07-12T19:18:27Z aeth: In particular, TIOBE severely underestimates the popularity of JavaScript because it's mostly search-based, while sites that are e.g. Github based will probably overestimate it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19767961
2020-07-12T19:20:43Z aeth: IMO, the more useful metric of a language's popularity is the size of its library repositories -- in Common Lisp's case, Quicklisp. This will still hurt languages like COBOL or C# where commercial middleware is more of a thing and FOSS was adopted late, but if you're not willing to pay for commercial middleware, it's probably more useful to you the programmer.
2020-07-12T19:21:21Z aeth: It still won't quite work out *quite* right because JS culture prefers microlibraries like is-even.
2020-07-12T19:22:25Z aeth: (And some languages like Scheme require a few dozen libraries just to catch up with what CL ships with.)
2020-07-12T19:25:11Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-12T19:27:06Z aeth: Btw, TIOBE contains entries both "Lisp" and "Common Lisp", and ranks Common Lisp substantially lower, which shows that it is completely clueless with respect to Lisp. There is no "Lisp", unless they want to suggest that LISP 1.5 is extremely more popular than Common Lisp.
2020-07-12T19:27:42Z aeth: s/both/for both/
2020-07-12T19:27:57Z bitmapper: ahh
2020-07-12T19:28:01Z bitmapper: this debate again
2020-07-12T19:28:20Z bitmapper: anyway, TIOBE is based on search engine results
2020-07-12T19:28:25Z aeth: Which means that TIOBE's basically just noise since Google locked down their algorithms and API a decade ago.
2020-07-12T19:28:38Z aeth: Google no longer gives you an accurate indication of results, and can't, really, since it's so customized.
2020-07-12T19:30:58Z aeth: And I can search a quote from a webpage, verbatim, in quotes, that I know exists and is indexed, and sometimes won't get the result. Google doesn't care for low volume searches, and often gives either you nothing or a completely irrelevant thing it thinks you meant.
2020-07-12T19:31:11Z aeth: s/either you/you either/
2020-07-12T19:32:12Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-12T19:32:47Z aeth: The most entertaining thing, though, is searching for an error message and getting the source code file containing the error message as the only result.
2020-07-12T19:38:14Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T19:38:39Z Josh_2: Hi all
2020-07-12T19:40:10Z phoe: heyy
2020-07-12T19:40:20Z Josh_2: Is there a way for me to define classes in a way that isn't at the top level?
2020-07-12T19:40:46Z Josh_2: the library jonathan requires classes in order to output json objects that aren't just arrays
2020-07-12T19:41:40Z Josh_2: the method %to-json is extended so I can output closs classes as JSON
2020-07-12T19:43:56Z rumbler31: you mean define classes at runtime?
2020-07-12T19:44:07Z rumbler31: or, later in compile time?
2020-07-12T19:44:18Z Josh_2: compile time I think
2020-07-12T19:47:54Z rumbler31: well I mean... when does it need to exist
2020-07-12T19:48:06Z rumbler31: do you have some example code you're trying to make work?
2020-07-12T19:50:20Z rumbler31: well so I mean, why do you need it not at the toplevel
2020-07-12T19:50:26Z rumbler31: what exactly do you mean by that
2020-07-12T19:50:42Z Josh_2: yes https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1952#1952 this almost works
2020-07-12T19:50:43Z rumbler31: are you needing to create new object definitions at runtime?
2020-07-12T19:50:44Z phoe: you can DEFCLASS anywhere you'd like, including IF branches and such
2020-07-12T19:51:30Z phoe: oooh, like that
2020-07-12T19:56:06Z Josh_2: eh
2020-07-12T19:56:19Z Josh_2: I don't think this is the best way to implement what I'm trying to do
2020-07-12T19:56:40Z Josh_2: I think I will just make a nice wrapper for defclass and defmethod and just write things out by hand oof
2020-07-12T19:57:04Z rumbler31: I've literally done this exact thing before, what do you think is wrong with it?
2020-07-12T19:58:04Z Josh_2: Well what I have done works for 1 level of class definitions
2020-07-12T19:58:30Z Josh_2: doesn't work with nested definitions
2020-07-12T19:58:38Z Josh_2: anyway I think I will try a different approach
2020-07-12T19:58:48Z Josh_2: Sorry for wasting y'alls time
2020-07-12T19:59:16Z rumbler31: wait, you mean that one member of a class is actually another class?
2020-07-12T20:00:07Z Josh_2: In the example *test* there is a list that looks like ("identifier" ("type" "m.id.user")("user" "cheeky-monkey")) this would be another class definition
2020-07-12T20:01:26Z Josh_2: so it would make another class associated with the name "identifier" with the two slots, and then the level above would have a slot definition like (identifier :type identifier :accessor identifier) if that makes sense
2020-07-12T20:02:04Z sympt_ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T20:02:50Z pve: Josh_2: could you have just one class for everything with a properties slots?
2020-07-12T20:02:53Z rumbler31: right, I've done that too... you just need to call your list to class definition again, and store the defclass call in a list that gets evaluated later, or in whichever order you need to do
2020-07-12T20:02:54Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T20:03:11Z Josh_2: rumbler31: well I could do it easy If I used eval
2020-07-12T20:03:13Z asarch: What can I do when I am evaluating a thread and something fails and it renders into the debug state of SBCL?
2020-07-12T20:03:17Z asarch: "#<THREAD "cl-cffi-gtk main thread" RUNNING {1007D01A43}>:"
2020-07-12T20:03:32Z rumbler31: don't need eval I don't think
2020-07-12T20:03:38Z asarch: If I press Ctrl+D in order to exit SBCL, it doesn't work
2020-07-12T20:03:59Z Josh_2: pve: I don't think I can do that because of the way the jonathan library creates JSON from instances of CLOS classes
2020-07-12T20:04:03Z sympt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T20:05:03Z rumbler31: a function that goes through slots to detect slots that have a type field, and then sends that slot to to your list to class definition call, storing the results, right?
2020-07-12T20:06:07Z Josh_2: oof I could just preprocess the list looking for nested classes and defining them first
2020-07-12T20:06:17Z rumbler31: finally reversing the list of class definitions so that they are defined before they're used (if that's even necessary)
2020-07-12T20:06:28Z rumbler31: yes
2020-07-12T20:06:39Z Josh_2: this wont' have any effect on runtime speed so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-07-12T20:07:01Z Josh_2: okay I will try that
2020-07-12T20:07:12Z asarch: debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-TYPE-ERROR in thread
2020-07-12T20:07:21Z asarch: #<THREAD "cl-cffi-gtk main thread" RUNNING {1007D08023}>:
2020-07-12T20:07:36Z asarch:   1 is not a string designator.
2020-07-12T20:07:48Z rumbler31: I got around this by instead of defining subclasses I just used the slot names as a new in place struct, but I just ran an expansion function that took the initial list and detected a new subtype list, and returned the results of the recursive call
2020-07-12T20:07:50Z asarch: The current thread is not at the foreground,
2020-07-12T20:08:04Z asarch: SB-THREAD:RELEASE-FOREGROUND has to be called in #<SB-THREAD:THREAD "main thread" RUNNING {10009C8083}>
2020-07-12T20:08:20Z asarch: for this thread to enter the debugger.
2020-07-12T20:08:28Z Josh_2: rumbler31: I think I will try something a long these lines
2020-07-12T20:08:48Z rumbler31: you might I guess want to be able to reuse subclasses in individual %to-json methods so that wont work for you
2020-07-12T20:08:50Z phoe: asarch: that's a type error
2020-07-12T20:09:02Z asarch: If I try to evaluate something, e.g. (sb-ext:exit), it simply doesn't work
2020-07-12T20:09:03Z phoe: go to that thread and check the backtrace to see where it blew up.
2020-07-12T20:09:09Z asarch: How?
2020-07-12T20:09:25Z Josh_2: I might just have to define some classes manually
2020-07-12T20:09:45Z phoe: asarch: are you using slime?
2020-07-12T20:09:57Z phoe: slime should install its own debugger hook so you get the backtrace in the slime debugger
2020-07-12T20:10:28Z asarch: No, SBCL directly from CLI: sbcl --load workspace.lisp
2020-07-12T20:11:29Z phoe: asarch: then do as you are told - call SB-THREAD:RELEASE-FOREGROUND from your main thread
2020-07-12T20:11:41Z phoe: once that's done, use the SBCL debugger to print the backtrace
2020-07-12T20:11:43Z phoe: and debug from there
2020-07-12T20:12:20Z asarch: (funcall SB-THREAD:RELEASE-FOREGROUND)?
2020-07-12T20:15:48Z phoe: (SB-THREAD:RELEASE-FOREGROUND)
2020-07-12T20:15:51Z phoe: in the main thread
2020-07-12T20:16:42Z asarch: Gotcha!
2020-07-12T20:16:44Z asarch: Thank you!
2020-07-12T20:17:06Z asarch: I usually type Ctrl+Z to "release" it :-P
2020-07-12T20:25:31Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-12T20:26:12Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T20:30:48Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T20:31:47Z asarch: My log is corrupted :'-(
2020-07-12T20:31:55Z asarch: How do you convert 1 into "1"?
2020-07-12T20:32:27Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-12T20:32:43Z madage quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-12T20:33:11Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-12T20:35:37Z Xach: asarch: so many ways
2020-07-12T20:35:48Z asarch: Thank you!
2020-07-12T20:35:51Z Xach: asarch: princ-to-string, prin1-to-string, format are a few
2020-07-12T20:38:20Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-12T20:38:26Z asarch: I wonder why not just (string 1)
2020-07-12T20:38:56Z asarch: Anyway
2020-07-12T20:39:01Z phoe: because it doesn't work
2020-07-12T20:39:05Z asarch: Thank you very much! :-)
2020-07-12T20:39:15Z phoe: because #'CL:STRING accepts string designators, and a number isn't one
2020-07-12T20:39:31Z phoe: because who knows why
2020-07-12T20:40:13Z asarch: I know
2020-07-12T20:40:34Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-12T20:40:46Z asarch: It is just, most of OO languages have the String object for string operations
2020-07-12T20:41:04Z asarch: let name = new String(12312);
2020-07-12T20:41:27Z phoe: in Lisp, this isn't as simple as that
2020-07-12T20:41:54Z phoe: things often can be printed in multiple ways, readably/unreadably, numeric settings for float, yadda yadda formatting stuff
2020-07-12T20:42:03Z phoe: prin1-to-string and princ-to-string is what you usually want
2020-07-12T20:42:35Z phoe: also, there's no "String object" in Lisp, and Lisp strings aren't standard objects that you can MAKE-INSTANCE of
2020-07-12T20:49:34Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-12T20:50:07Z Bike: i don't think coercing things to strings has anything to do with object orientation.
2020-07-12T20:51:29Z phoe: ^
2020-07-12T20:53:46Z Bike: doing it with numbers is nontrivial. there's selection of base, whether you want a separator, some localization concerns like what you use for a separator, bla bla bla
2020-07-12T20:54:14Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-12T20:55:02Z phoe: nah it's easy, you just do String number = new NumberStringBuilder(2).base(10).separator(',').decimalPlaces(4, 2, '0').build();
2020-07-12T20:55:38Z Bike: in java it would be toString, except i don't think that works with ints since they're not objects
2020-07-12T20:55:51Z phoe: new Integer(2);
2020-07-12T20:56:01Z Bike: oh, you do Integer.toString(whatever) instead of whatever.toString()
2020-07-12T20:56:13Z phoe: everything is a java object if you believe hard enough
2020-07-12T20:59:59Z aeth: In CL, there's very little special treatment for strings because most of the time, they're just treated as arrays or sequences instead.
2020-07-12T21:00:07Z aeth: Some languages can have very elaborate special treatment there.
2020-07-12T21:01:07Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T21:01:25Z aeth: integer to string is pretty trivial most of the time
2020-07-12T21:01:35Z aeth: floating point to string is a nightmare
2020-07-12T21:02:35Z aeth: I usually use FORMAT to turn numbers into strings even in parts of code that otherwise stylistically don't use FORMAT. This, of course, assumes that the Lisp implementation correctly is handling the floating point issues.
2020-07-12T21:02:58Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-12T21:02:58Z asarch: movl %eax, "This is a test!"
2020-07-12T21:02:59Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-12T21:03:17Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T21:03:28Z Bike: that's not an actual runtime operation, your assembler just converts the string into bytes by whatever means.
2020-07-12T21:03:42Z Bike: i guess assemblers probably have to support unicode and stuff now? ech.
2020-07-12T21:04:17Z Bike: well, storing the address in the register might actually happen though.
2020-07-12T21:04:37Z phoe: movlcnvutf8utf16be %eax, "what the hell"
2020-07-12T21:05:09Z Bike: wasn't that the king of the north sea empire?
2020-07-12T21:05:53Z asarch: movl %ebx, "こんいちわ！"
2020-07-12T21:07:06Z asarch: brb!
2020-07-12T21:07:09Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-12T21:07:26Z efm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T21:07:48Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-12T21:08:52Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T21:10:41Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T21:12:41Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-12T21:22:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-12T21:23:04Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-12T21:27:10Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-12T21:27:32Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-12T21:28:26Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-12T21:28:55Z aeth: As far as Unicode goes, I personally prefer just adding in an "é" to see what happens.
2020-07-12T21:29:12Z aeth: The most wrong answer is if it uses an encoding that isn't Unicode, I guess
2020-07-12T21:29:28Z Bike: well that one's in latin-1
2020-07-12T21:30:34Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-12T21:30:40Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-12T21:35:43Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T21:36:35Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-12T21:56:01Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-12T22:01:18Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-12T22:02:20Z aamukastemato joined #lisp
2020-07-12T22:15:37Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-12T22:15:54Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-12T22:16:24Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-12T22:28:54Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T22:29:27Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-12T22:29:52Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T22:35:47Z aamukastemato quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-12T22:37:54Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-12T22:41:11Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-12T22:42:11Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T22:42:32Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-12T22:43:53Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T22:46:05Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-12T22:46:05Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-12T22:47:08Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T23:09:11Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:12:57Z efm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T23:13:24Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:20:01Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-12T23:20:07Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:22:39Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-12T23:23:04Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:25:57Z efm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-12T23:27:11Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-12T23:27:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:27:26Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-12T23:27:36Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:29:28Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-12T23:31:36Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:34:40Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-12T23:37:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-12T23:38:38Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:39:56Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:42:11Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-12T23:42:36Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:46:29Z aaaaaa left #lisp
2020-07-12T23:48:37Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:49:43Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-12T23:53:01Z efm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-12T23:55:22Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T00:01:48Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:18:44Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:26:31Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T00:29:00Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:30:54Z ferpb joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:32:25Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:33:40Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T00:35:02Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:35:33Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T00:37:34Z Bit_MCP joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:37:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-13T00:39:02Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:41:32Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:42:11Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-13T00:42:34Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:44:32Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T00:54:52Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T00:55:13Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T01:01:08Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T01:04:01Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-13T01:05:42Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-13T01:07:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-13T01:12:02Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T01:12:36Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-13T01:14:35Z ahungry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T01:16:00Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-13T01:37:08Z kinope: Is there a way to load a local system with quicklisp where the name of the system definition file and the name of the system are different, in one step?
2020-07-13T01:37:54Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T01:43:31Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-13T01:44:16Z nicktick quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-13T01:44:47Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-13T01:48:54Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-13T01:50:00Z Bit_MCP quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T01:51:14Z ferpb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91))
2020-07-13T01:51:23Z z3t0: What are some good lisp oriented mailing lists to follow?
2020-07-13T01:54:06Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-13T01:55:45Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-13T01:56:58Z elderK quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T01:58:12Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-13T02:00:49Z leo_song quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T02:03:07Z elderK quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T02:04:35Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-13T02:05:54Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T02:10:59Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T02:11:54Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T02:22:59Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T02:23:33Z Archenoth quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-13T02:25:26Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-13T02:28:32Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-13T02:30:13Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-13T02:36:32Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-13T02:37:34Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T02:48:05Z asarch: How do you count from 1 to 5 quickly?
2020-07-13T02:50:35Z kinope: (loop for x from 1 to 5 do (format t "~a~%" x))
2020-07-13T02:52:47Z kinope: (loop with count = 0 repeat 5 do (print (incf count)))
2020-07-13T02:52:59Z asarch: Yessss!
2020-07-13T02:53:03Z asarch: Thank you!
2020-07-13T02:53:49Z kinope: asarch: Welcome
2020-07-13T02:54:01Z asarch: :-)
2020-07-13T02:54:34Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-13T02:55:44Z kinope: morning :)
2020-07-13T02:57:02Z asarch: Guten Tag, herr beach. Wie geht es Ihnen?
2020-07-13T02:58:26Z beach: Fine as usual, thanks.  I am trying to find a volunteer to extract and improve the code for first-class global environments into a separate library (named Clostrum).  But everyone is very busy it seems.
2020-07-13T02:59:39Z Bit_MCP joined #lisp
2020-07-13T02:59:40Z beach: And I haven't heard whether someone suggested a presentation for the online Lisp meeting a week from now.  If not, I should finish part 2 of my "Creating a Common Lisp implementation" presentation series.
2020-07-13T03:00:54Z Bit_MCP quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T03:03:42Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T03:15:04Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-13T03:18:31Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-13T03:19:11Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-13T03:22:37Z dxtr quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T03:27:12Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-13T03:27:58Z dxtr joined #lisp
2020-07-13T03:29:16Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-13T03:39:27Z z3t0: beach: is there somewhere I can find info about the meeting/presentation? Is it public?
2020-07-13T03:39:56Z beach: z3t0: It is public.  Hold on.  Let me see if I can find it.
2020-07-13T03:41:08Z beach: https://www.twitch.tv/TwitchPlaysCommonLisp
2020-07-13T03:42:21Z z3t0: thanks!
2020-07-13T03:42:25Z beach: Sure.
2020-07-13T03:42:56Z beach: Apparently, the presentations are available as recordings somewhere.
2020-07-13T03:44:37Z elderK quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-13T03:44:55Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-13T03:48:22Z Kabriel_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T03:48:43Z Kabriel joined #lisp
2020-07-13T04:16:41Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-13T04:19:21Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-13T04:19:46Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T04:21:57Z gioyik quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T04:23:52Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-13T04:24:46Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-13T04:27:05Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-13T04:29:06Z JohnTalent quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-13T04:31:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-13T04:34:15Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T04:36:46Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-13T04:45:34Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-13T04:46:37Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-13T04:49:25Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-13T04:54:58Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:05:13Z MichaelRaskin quit (Quit: MichaelRaskin)
2020-07-13T05:08:25Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:16:26Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T05:17:12Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T05:19:47Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T05:26:53Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-13T05:34:07Z v3ga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T05:35:04Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-13T05:35:36Z TMA joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:37:07Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:40:45Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:41:36Z gioyik quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-13T05:47:36Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:48:09Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:49:31Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:52:01Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:52:11Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:53:04Z phoe: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCymtXMj1M7cKiV9TKLoTtEg
2020-07-13T05:53:07Z phoe: here they are
2020-07-13T05:54:14Z beep joined #lisp
2020-07-13T05:55:19Z beach: Hey phoe.  Any candidates for a week from now?
2020-07-13T05:57:05Z phoe: nope, but I have not been looking
2020-07-13T05:57:08Z phoe: I must look harder
2020-07-13T05:57:13Z phoe: I'll do that today
2020-07-13T05:57:46Z beach: OK.
2020-07-13T05:58:13Z beep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T05:59:54Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-13T05:59:57Z beach: If not, I can do it.  Part 2 is almost done.
2020-07-13T06:01:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T06:01:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:05:51Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:06:13Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:08:23Z aindilis quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T06:20:25Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:23:56Z stoneglass joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:27:44Z jurov_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:30:18Z jurov quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T06:32:27Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:34:10Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T06:35:52Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T06:35:57Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:42:40Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-13T06:48:12Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:49:38Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T06:53:58Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:53:59Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-13T06:53:59Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-13T06:54:37Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T06:55:21Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T06:59:13Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:03:10Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:04:49Z cantstanya quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T07:10:46Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:11:14Z cantstanya joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:14:34Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:16:38Z polaris joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:17:15Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:27:23Z dtman34 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:27:29Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:28:52Z dtman34 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T07:30:29Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T07:40:15Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:40:50Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T07:47:53Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-13T07:49:12Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:50:39Z _paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T07:51:43Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T07:52:41Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:53:25Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-13T07:58:28Z leedleLoo joined #lisp
2020-07-13T08:01:47Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-13T08:02:50Z leedleLoo: Is the and type-specifier supposed to short-circuit like the and macro? I'm getting a memory error using a deftype which expands to '(and simple-string (satisfies my-unsafe-simple-string-predicate))
2020-07-13T08:06:15Z beach: No.
2020-07-13T08:07:12Z phoe: it isn't - it can be freely reordered
2020-07-13T08:07:18Z beach: Type specifiers can be canonicalized and simplified, so there is no such guarantee.
2020-07-13T08:07:20Z phoe: Lisp types are mathematical sets
2020-07-13T08:07:30Z phoe: in type specifier languages, (AND A B) === (AND B A)
2020-07-13T08:07:46Z phoe: and the implementation is allowed to freely leverage that fact to its advantage
2020-07-13T08:07:54Z phoe: s/languages/language/
2020-07-13T08:10:36Z leedleLoo: Thanks, that makes sense when compared to mathematical sets. I guess I'll have to move the type handling into the predicate then
2020-07-13T08:11:17Z C-16 quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-13T08:12:28Z doublex quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-13T08:12:41Z aindilis quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T08:15:33Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-13T08:18:02Z hlavaty joined #lisp
2020-07-13T08:19:14Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-13T08:28:22Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T08:34:38Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-13T08:36:02Z hdasch quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T08:36:02Z narendraj9 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T08:37:22Z narendraj9 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T08:38:24Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-13T08:40:33Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-13T08:46:13Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-13T08:46:52Z jackdaniel: in clim first type in and (for presentation types) has special treatment by the function accept
2020-07-13T08:50:21Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-13T08:50:22Z phoe: jackdaniel: huh
2020-07-13T08:59:49Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-13T09:05:17Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-13T09:05:23Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T09:19:34Z jackdaniel: phoe: also, you may treat class superclasses as a definition of type instersection, ala (and class-1 class-2 class-3)
2020-07-13T09:19:52Z jackdaniel: and similarily, the order matters when you compute the effective method
2020-07-13T09:20:38Z jackdaniel: (and a b c) could be interpreted as: it is all three, but first and foremost its a
2020-07-13T09:20:40Z jackdaniel: ;)
2020-07-13T09:20:50Z jackdaniel: s/its/it's/
2020-07-13T09:22:30Z phoe: ooooh
2020-07-13T09:23:02Z phoe: yes, correct! I was talking about types not classes though, so a slightly simpler topic
2020-07-13T09:23:20Z jackdaniel: you've talked generally about types
2020-07-13T09:23:35Z phoe: the big difference is the order of direct superclasses matters, whereas the order of sub-type specifiers in AND doesn't
2020-07-13T09:23:41Z jackdaniel: classes define type hierarchy, presentation types even more
2020-07-13T09:24:18Z jackdaniel: s/even more/too/
2020-07-13T09:27:20Z jackdaniel: for typep the order may not matter, however from the implementation perspective it is not unlikely that they are inspected from left to right and then it becomes debatable (i.e the type specifier satisfies may take longer to determine)
2020-07-13T09:29:02Z phoe: yes, but let's consider (and simple-string (satisfies foo))
2020-07-13T09:29:23Z phoe: FOO must not assume that its argument is a simple-string because the implementation is free to reorder AND
2020-07-13T09:29:45Z jackdaniel: yes
2020-07-13T09:30:02Z phoe: it's a weird choice because of what you mentioned, SATISFIES is expensive
2020-07-13T09:30:02Z kopiyka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T09:30:06Z jackdaniel: I'm just picky about the s tatement, that "Lisp types are mathematical sets"
2020-07-13T09:30:06Z phoe: but nonetheless permitted
2020-07-13T09:30:16Z jackdaniel: statement*
2020-07-13T09:30:25Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-13T09:31:10Z phoe: "A type is a (possibly infinite) set of objects."
2020-07-13T09:31:11Z jackdaniel: it is quasi-similar to a statement, that the order of operations in (* foo bar qux) does not matter
2020-07-13T09:31:18Z phoe: uh, no
2020-07-13T09:31:23Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T09:31:28Z phoe: the rules of evaluation are well-specified
2020-07-13T09:31:39Z phoe: there's no such rule for type specifiers
2020-07-13T09:31:42Z jackdaniel: yes, but from "mathematical" sense the result will be always the same
2020-07-13T09:31:48Z jackdaniel: s/from/in/
2020-07-13T09:32:12Z phoe: oh, yes, I see
2020-07-13T09:32:29Z jackdaniel: same for type predicates, from "mathematical" sense the order of clauses in AND is not relevant, however in computer languages it /probably/ is
2020-07-13T09:32:44Z jackdaniel: or, "it may be"
2020-07-13T09:32:51Z phoe: correct
2020-07-13T09:34:18Z phoe: it's just that there's no guarantee that, in complex type specifiers such as OR or AND, the SATISFIES sub-type-specifiers are checked last
2020-07-13T09:34:37Z phoe: which makes (and simple-string (satisfies foo)) somewhat counter-intuitive I guess
2020-07-13T09:34:42Z jackdaniel: sure
2020-07-13T09:35:01Z jackdaniel: as I've said, I was picking at the phrase "mathematical sets"
2020-07-13T09:35:15Z phoe: okay, picking accepted
2020-07-13T09:45:04Z leedleLoo: :) I was reading the phrase "mathematical sets" as: (and &rest type-specifiers) in a type-specifier is treated as the definition of a mathematical set of types by the implementation. Consequently, order is not guaranteed. On the other hand, (and &rest expressions) used outside of type-specifiers is treated as a regular expression/macro by the implementation so regular eval rules apply
2020-07-13T09:46:04Z phoe: actually there's no "regular eval rules" when macros come into play
2020-07-13T09:46:24Z phoe: and the AND macro is, well, a macro
2020-07-13T09:46:50Z phoe: standard evaluation rules apply to function calls, not to macro calls
2020-07-13T09:47:42Z leedleLoo: Good point. I guess it's better to say that AND in a type-specifier does not behave like AND the macro
2020-07-13T09:48:44Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T09:49:40Z phoe: yes
2020-07-13T09:49:52Z phoe: no short circuiting and no order guarantee
2020-07-13T09:58:41Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-13T10:01:04Z whiteline quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-13T10:09:53Z Lord_of_Life quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T10:11:43Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-13T10:18:17Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T10:18:41Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-13T10:22:28Z rgherdt_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T10:26:01Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-13T10:32:22Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-13T10:36:21Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-13T10:45:27Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T10:47:08Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T10:48:18Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-13T10:54:44Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T10:56:14Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-13T10:56:15Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-13T10:58:27Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-13T10:58:42Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:00:09Z leedleLoo left #lisp
2020-07-13T11:01:29Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-13T11:08:48Z lottaquestions joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:09:12Z lottaquestions: How can I change the contents of a list in slime inspector?
2020-07-13T11:13:41Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:13:50Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:13:52Z ldb: hellp
2020-07-13T11:16:39Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T11:18:00Z vegai: HELLO
2020-07-13T11:18:13Z phoe: lottaquestions: huh. I never tried, myself.
2020-07-13T11:18:22Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:19:52Z ldb: lottaquestions: try slime-inspector-operate-on-point
2020-07-13T11:21:33Z phoe: ldb: the issue is that "goes" into the value
2020-07-13T11:21:49Z phoe: so if I inspect the result of (cons 1 2) then I can inspect 1 or 2
2020-07-13T11:21:58Z phoe: but I don't seem to be able to modify the CAR or CDR
2020-07-13T11:22:56Z lottaquestions: so the list is a list of symbols
2020-07-13T11:22:57Z phoe: I think this can be worked around by using M-RET to perform slime-inspector-copy-down, then returning to the REPL, and then mutating the value of *
2020-07-13T11:23:34Z phoe: so (setf (car *) 'lsdvkhlsdg)
2020-07-13T11:23:54Z lottaquestions: let me try that
2020-07-13T11:23:58Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T11:24:14Z ldb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T11:24:28Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:25:16Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:26:11Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T11:28:14Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T11:28:36Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:29:18Z ldb: phoe: seems slime requires contrib .el files to set value in inspector
2020-07-13T11:30:45Z vornth quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-13T11:32:13Z phoe: ldb: oh! I wasn't aware of these
2020-07-13T11:33:21Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:34:22Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:34:28Z lottaquestions: M-RET to perform slime-inspector-copy-down, then returning to the REPL, and then mutating the value of * has worked to change the contents of a list
2020-07-13T11:34:36Z phoe: <3
2020-07-13T11:36:08Z vornth quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-13T11:39:12Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:40:11Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:40:33Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T11:41:11Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:42:54Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T11:47:50Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-13T11:54:55Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T11:55:39Z Posterdati: hi
2020-07-13T11:55:49Z phoe: heyyyy
2020-07-13T11:55:52Z Posterdati: again gsll is unusable on openbsd :(
2020-07-13T11:58:24Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T11:58:52Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:02:22Z ferpb joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:14:17Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T12:15:37Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:16:38Z ferpb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91))
2020-07-13T12:17:22Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T12:18:18Z ferpb joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:20:42Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:22:53Z ferpb quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 27.0.91)
2020-07-13T12:25:39Z Posterdati: :openbsd is infact missing in *features*
2020-07-13T12:26:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-13T12:26:42Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:29:54Z phoe: Posterdati: which implementation is that?
2020-07-13T12:30:38Z Posterdati: phoe: which implementation is linux then?
2020-07-13T12:31:32Z jackdaniel: Posterdati: I think that he asks about the common lisp implementation you use
2020-07-13T12:31:38Z jackdaniel: not the bsd flavour
2020-07-13T12:31:49Z phoe: Posterdati: I meant the Common Lisp implementation
2020-07-13T12:32:12Z ldb: seems only CLisp, ECL, GCL could work
2020-07-13T12:32:20Z Posterdati: sbcl 2.0 on openbsd 6.7 amd64
2020-07-13T12:32:45Z Posterdati: phoe: seems that there's no :openbsd nor :bsd in *features*
2020-07-13T12:34:35Z Posterdati: phoe: correction,.(member :bsd *features* :test #'equalp) returns (:bsd ... :unix)
2020-07-13T12:34:48Z phoe: Posterdati: so :bsd is there
2020-07-13T12:34:51Z Posterdati: phoe: but no flavour in it
2020-07-13T12:35:08Z phoe: you might want to ask #sbcl to add :openbsd to features when SBCL is built there
2020-07-13T12:35:38Z ldb: or just push it yourself and save the heap image
2020-07-13T12:35:44Z Posterdati: phoe: due to this I cannot use egcc to compile libraries
2020-07-13T12:36:03Z phoe: Posterdati: or do what ldb mentioned for a hotfix
2020-07-13T12:36:29Z Posterdati: phoe: ok, but I have to change cffi and gsll again :)
2020-07-13T12:36:52Z phoe: Posterdati: no, why?
2020-07-13T12:37:08Z phoe: load SBCL up, push :openbsd to *features*, THEN load CFFI and GSLL
2020-07-13T12:37:27Z phoe: they should compile the code that depends on the :openbsd feature
2020-07-13T12:37:32Z Posterdati: phoe: there's no specific configuration for openbsd in cffi, it loads the wrong library version
2020-07-13T12:37:44Z phoe: ooh
2020-07-13T12:37:49Z phoe: then CFFI needs to get patched too
2020-07-13T12:37:56Z Posterdati: and gsll too
2020-07-13T12:38:04Z phoe: such is the life of people on less supported operating systems :(
2020-07-13T12:38:12Z phoe: or should I say, less popular ones
2020-07-13T12:38:16Z Posterdati: I have to do that for the nth time :)
2020-07-13T12:40:36Z ldb: CFFI could work with ECL on OpenBSD
2020-07-13T12:43:18Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:44:56Z marcoxa joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:49:39Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:49:42Z marcoxa: Hello, I have a question regarding the Hyperspec entry for HANDLER-CASE.  Is it just me, or the example expansion in terms of HANDLER-BIND contains one error? I.e., shouldn't the last line be
2020-07-13T12:49:59Z jackdaniel: spec handler-case
2020-07-13T12:50:03Z jackdaniel: clhs handler-case
2020-07-13T12:50:03Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_hand_1.htm
2020-07-13T12:50:54Z marcoxa: #4# (return-from #2# (let ((var2 #2#)) . body2)) ...)))
2020-07-13T12:51:58Z jackdaniel: there is no block named #2#, is there?
2020-07-13T12:52:00Z msk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T12:52:01Z Bike: no, the lambda is the no-error code.
2020-07-13T12:52:10Z jackdaniel: ah, you mean the last example
2020-07-13T12:52:25Z Bike: so it needs to be called if the form doesn't signal an error.
2020-07-13T12:52:26Z tfb_ is now known as tfb
2020-07-13T12:52:29Z marcoxa: @Bike not the :no-error case.
2020-07-13T12:53:07Z Bike: The other example? jackdaniel is right, there's no block named #2#
2020-07-13T12:53:30Z marcoxa: The first case.  I think me and @jackdaniel agree.
2020-07-13T12:53:44Z Bike: If you agree than it shouldn't be (return-from #2# ...)
2020-07-13T12:54:06Z jurov_ is now known as jurov
2020-07-13T12:54:13Z phoe: it cannot be return-from #2# because this won't compile
2020-07-13T12:54:21Z phoe: all of these cases must return-from #1#
2020-07-13T12:54:22Z marcoxa: IMHO it *should* be (return-from #2# ...)
2020-07-13T12:54:34Z jackdaniel: marcoxa: but #2# is not a block name
2020-07-13T12:54:36Z Bike: then you don't agree with jackdaniel.
2020-07-13T12:54:38Z jackdaniel: so where from it would return?
2020-07-13T12:54:41Z phoe: marcoxa: try compiling that code
2020-07-13T12:54:47Z Bike: why would it be return-from #2#? there's no block called #2#.
2020-07-13T12:55:50Z jackdaniel: #1 is the handler-case's block to return from, #2 is a temporary result. I'm slightly concerned about the first lambda though
2020-07-13T12:55:58Z jackdaniel: because it should be (setq #2# temp) I think
2020-07-13T12:56:09Z marcoxa: Because of the SETQs in the handlers.  Now that you mentioned it, it does mess things up.  But the SETQs seem erroneous
2020-07-13T12:56:21Z jackdaniel: ditto
2020-07-13T12:56:24Z Bike: yeah, (setq #1# ...) is probably wrong
2020-07-13T12:56:31Z phoe: now that one is wrong, yes
2020-07-13T12:56:36Z phoe: #1# is not a variable
2020-07-13T12:56:57Z phoe: #2# should be set, since it is used to transfer data from the handler function to the handler case
2020-07-13T12:57:04Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:57:12Z jackdaniel: I'm sure I've said ^ a few lines above
2020-07-13T12:57:14Z marcoxa: Ok.  Yeah.  This looks better.  (setq #2# temp) should be in the first handler.
2020-07-13T12:57:18Z phoe: so https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1954#1954
2020-07-13T12:58:13Z Bike: someone should maybe throw it on https://www.cliki.net/ANSI%20Clarifications%20and%20Errata then
2020-07-13T12:58:21Z marcoxa: Yep @phoe
2020-07-13T12:58:27Z phoe: Bike: I will
2020-07-13T12:58:30Z phoe: jackdaniel: yes, sorry
2020-07-13T12:59:15Z puchacz joined #lisp
2020-07-13T12:59:29Z puchacz: hi, has anybody used a css parser library? I would like to parse css, possibly modify something in the parse tree and serialise it back.
2020-07-13T12:59:39Z jackdaniel: marcoxa: could you check the query window? I've left you a private message
2020-07-13T12:59:40Z efm_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-13T12:59:48Z phoe: puchacz: I think Shinmera might have something like that
2020-07-13T12:59:59Z puchacz: phoe: clss?
2020-07-13T13:00:54Z puchacz: I am not sure you can serialise it back into a string
2020-07-13T13:04:37Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:05:08Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T13:05:44Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:06:45Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:07:48Z Posterdati: phoe: no way to make it work...
2020-07-13T13:08:16Z phoe: Posterdati: sorry, can't help you any further
2020-07-13T13:13:25Z heisig quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-13T13:14:00Z ldb: Posterdati: have you had luck with ECL?
2020-07-13T13:15:22Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T13:18:59Z luna_is_here_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:25:52Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T13:26:02Z ldb: it's interesting to see that in the book A Programming Language, ``metaprogramming'' actually is parsing and evaling terms
2020-07-13T13:26:21Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:26:39Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T13:27:43Z rumbler31 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:43Z hdasch quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:43Z aindilis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:43Z shka_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:43Z gravicappa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:43Z _jrjsmrtn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:43Z Blukunfando quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:43Z penguwin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z gigetoo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z froggey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z oldtopman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z DGASAU quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z flazh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z kbtr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z cdegroot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z kingcons quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:27:44Z wigust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z penguwin joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z oldtopman joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z kingcons joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z kbtr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z cdegroot joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z mood joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:28:07Z wigust joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:29:24Z phoe: lisp stuff must be metametaprogramming then
2020-07-13T13:35:46Z Posterdati: ldb: not using ecl on openbsd
2020-07-13T13:37:04Z yonkunas_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:39:13Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-13T13:39:23Z yonkunas_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-13T13:40:17Z yonkunas joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:43:29Z puchacz: hmmm, I am finding lquery rather difficult to understand....
2020-07-13T13:44:56Z puchacz: macros, macros everywhere
2020-07-13T13:46:52Z phoe: beach: please submit your talk. I'll have two talks this time, the other from the Guile Scheme world.
2020-07-13T13:47:05Z phoe: (If it's not a big problem for you, that is!)
2020-07-13T13:49:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T13:51:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:53:19Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-13T13:54:12Z beach: phoe: OK, will do.
2020-07-13T13:54:24Z phoe: beach: thanks!
2020-07-13T13:54:54Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-13T13:58:20Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T14:03:14Z polaris quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T14:05:10Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T14:09:35Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-13T14:16:00Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:17:23Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T14:19:57Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:20:05Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:20:48Z ldb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1))
2020-07-13T14:21:15Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:22:09Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2020-07-13T14:22:17Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:22:29Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-13T14:22:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:25:18Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-13T14:25:34Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:26:01Z ferpb joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:28:19Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:30:30Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-13T14:30:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:31:30Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:34:21Z drmeister_ is now known as drmeister
2020-07-13T14:35:01Z doublex joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:44:07Z Posterdati: phoe: fixes
2020-07-13T14:44:09Z Posterdati: phoe: fixed!
2020-07-13T14:44:36Z Posterdati: phoe: but is still uses clang to compile and not the $CC contents
2020-07-13T14:46:59Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:51:27Z Retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-13T14:58:30Z kinope quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-13T15:00:17Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-13T15:00:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:03:35Z rgherdt_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-13T15:05:26Z marcoxa: @Posterdati R U italian? As if it were antani? :)
2020-07-13T15:08:58Z beach: marcoxa: The @ convention is not used on IRC.  Just type the nick followed by a colon.  Your IRC client should complete for you.
2020-07-13T15:08:58Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:11:49Z hlavaty quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T15:13:57Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T15:20:30Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:21:13Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T15:24:38Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:27:52Z ferpb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T15:29:11Z dlowe: beach: that's complicated by the popularity of bridges now
2020-07-13T15:29:22Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:29:58Z beach: Oh, another thing I am completely ignorant of. :(
2020-07-13T15:31:00Z christophergray joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:33:37Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T15:34:06Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:34:53Z dyelar joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:37:13Z luna_is_here_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T15:37:40Z luna_is_here_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:43:10Z cnmne joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:43:21Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:46:38Z cnmne: hi, I'm trying to understand an elisp package. In `(declare-function some-func "ext:other-func" ())`, what's the purpose of the ":ext" prefix ?
2020-07-13T15:47:19Z phoe: #emacs might help you more
2020-07-13T15:47:19Z beach: cnmne: This channel is dedicated to Common Lisp, so you may have to ask in #emacs.
2020-07-13T15:47:48Z cnmne: oh sorry, thanks
2020-07-13T15:48:50Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-13T15:48:53Z cnmne left #lisp
2020-07-13T15:51:30Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T15:53:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-13T16:05:58Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-13T16:08:26Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T16:09:57Z Retropikzel quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T16:10:06Z luna-is-here joined #lisp
2020-07-13T16:14:46Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-13T16:23:12Z zigpaw quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-07-13T16:23:29Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-13T16:29:32Z snits quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-13T16:30:01Z snits joined #lisp
2020-07-13T16:33:41Z Posterdati: marcoxa: by two
2020-07-13T16:34:11Z Posterdati: marcoxa: like it was antani
2020-07-13T16:37:17Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-13T16:46:03Z madage quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T16:51:31Z Retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-13T16:53:39Z rikudocat joined #lisp
2020-07-13T16:55:42Z rikudocat: I will add some fresh to the discussion here
2020-07-13T16:56:32Z rikudocat: If you don’t want to see any foreign objects, please respond
2020-07-13T16:56:46Z phoe: rikudocat: huh
2020-07-13T16:57:28Z rikudocat: o, my English is not good, can not understand the abbreviation
2020-07-13T16:57:48Z phoe: which abbreviation?
2020-07-13T16:57:53Z phoe: "huh" means that I did not understand you
2020-07-13T16:58:27Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-13T16:58:34Z rikudocat: I get it now
2020-07-13T16:58:58Z rikudocat: I'm going to show a thing that all software engineers love.
2020-07-13T16:59:03Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-13T16:59:58Z rikudocat: If there is no objection, I will send a link to my project later
2020-07-13T17:00:11Z phoe: what is the project?
2020-07-13T17:00:37Z rikudocat: https://bit.ly/2Zf4zMQ
2020-07-13T17:01:13Z phoe: ummmmm, is this related to Lisp though?
2020-07-13T17:01:29Z rikudocat: Forgive me for using a short URL, no trap to open it with confidence
2020-07-13T17:01:31Z Bike: this url looks pretty shady.
2020-07-13T17:02:13Z phoe: just clicked it, it's an IPFS page. keyboard layouts don't seem on-topic though
2020-07-13T17:02:26Z rikudocat: Don't be too serious, always talk about one thing, time will pass quickly
2020-07-13T17:02:39Z phoe: (especially non-space-cadet ones :D)
2020-07-13T17:05:27Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:05:27Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-13T17:05:27Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:07:23Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:09:26Z rikudocat: I hope that lisp programmers who are interested in the project will join my project
2020-07-13T17:10:45Z choegusung joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:13:56Z jlarocco quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T17:14:29Z Retropikzel left #lisp
2020-07-13T17:16:31Z puchacz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T17:18:34Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:18:46Z snits quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-13T17:19:35Z snits joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:21:31Z frgo_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T17:24:25Z choegusung quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-13T17:27:21Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:30:02Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-13T17:34:03Z polaris joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:35:09Z polaris quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-13T17:35:25Z polaris joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:35:35Z rikudocat left #lisp
2020-07-13T17:38:27Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:42:43Z kaun_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:44:31Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:50:45Z Guest92 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:52:11Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T17:53:54Z duuqnd joined #lisp
2020-07-13T17:54:15Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:04:50Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:13:26Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T18:14:10Z christophergray quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-13T18:14:54Z Guest92 quit (Quit: Guest92)
2020-07-13T18:15:06Z Guest92 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:15:09Z Guest92 left #lisp
2020-07-13T18:18:54Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T18:21:04Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:24:33Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:26:14Z efm quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T18:27:08Z stoneglass quit (Quit: stoneglass)
2020-07-13T18:27:37Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T18:28:08Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T18:28:47Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:29:19Z efm joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:31:25Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-13T18:32:06Z efm left #lisp
2020-07-13T18:33:27Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-13T18:36:31Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:37:25Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:37:53Z madage quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-13T18:40:22Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-13T18:41:13Z gjulio quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T18:41:33Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:41:36Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:44:53Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:56:02Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T18:57:31Z kaun_ quit (Quit: bas)
2020-07-13T18:58:40Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T19:03:11Z shukryzablah joined #lisp
2020-07-13T19:04:27Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-13T19:06:24Z Fare quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T19:16:59Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-13T19:18:16Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-13T19:21:37Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-13T19:23:13Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-13T19:31:07Z q3d joined #lisp
2020-07-13T19:33:47Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T19:36:51Z luna-is-here quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T19:36:52Z luna_is_here_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T19:37:52Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T19:38:38Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-13T19:48:01Z shukryzablah left #lisp
2020-07-13T19:51:14Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T19:52:35Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-13T19:55:29Z SYMINAL joined #lisp
2020-07-13T19:56:29Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-13T19:59:34Z frgo_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T20:02:14Z frgo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T20:13:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T20:19:18Z justache quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T20:20:36Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2020-07-13T20:20:38Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-13T20:20:45Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-13T20:24:05Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-13T20:29:29Z theseb left #lisp
2020-07-13T20:29:55Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-13T20:30:50Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-13T20:30:56Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-13T20:31:13Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T20:36:36Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-13T20:38:13Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T20:39:03Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T20:39:54Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T20:41:34Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T20:42:37Z scymtym_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T20:43:07Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-13T20:46:46Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T20:51:49Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T20:57:07Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T20:57:32Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T21:00:18Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-13T21:01:08Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-13T21:01:14Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-13T21:03:06Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T21:06:18Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-13T21:10:12Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T21:11:45Z madage quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T21:12:01Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-13T21:15:48Z polaris quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-13T21:21:57Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-13T21:31:35Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-13T21:35:10Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-13T21:45:50Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-13T21:46:21Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-13T21:46:32Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T21:50:14Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T21:50:59Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-13T22:00:18Z q3d quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T22:00:56Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T22:06:11Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-13T22:08:25Z mrcom_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T22:10:25Z mrcom quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-13T22:15:39Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-13T22:15:59Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-13T22:16:38Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-13T22:19:04Z jurov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T22:19:23Z marcoxa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T22:22:15Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-13T22:24:25Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-13T22:27:22Z jprajzne quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T22:31:27Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-13T22:31:58Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-13T22:37:19Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-13T22:39:34Z reggie_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T22:41:29Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T22:43:22Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-13T22:45:06Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-13T22:47:14Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T22:47:14Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-13T22:50:44Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-13T22:51:23Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-13T23:00:49Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-13T23:00:53Z duuqnd quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-13T23:04:39Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-13T23:16:51Z kinope quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-13T23:16:56Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-13T23:26:33Z Oladon: White_Flame: Around? I'd like to run some thoughts by ya.
2020-07-13T23:33:24Z hdasch quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3~bpo9+1 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-13T23:33:46Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-13T23:33:49Z malm quit (Killed (kornbluth.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2020-07-13T23:33:51Z malm joined #lisp
2020-07-13T23:48:06Z ferpb joined #lisp
2020-07-13T23:50:43Z z3t0: I was wondering if there are lisps out there suited to real-time programming or tasks that require predictable performance? I think mainly this would require an implementation without a garbage collector? I'm no expert so please correct me if I said something stupid. My use case is writing a real time video processing application
2020-07-13T23:51:07Z z3t0: I did read somewhere that the gc can also be tuned, is that a good approach?
2020-07-13T23:54:20Z jurov joined #lisp
2020-07-13T23:55:47Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T00:00:12Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T00:02:34Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T00:06:38Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-14T00:08:55Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-14T00:14:38Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T00:16:13Z jasom: z3t0: what is the maximum latency you can tolerate?
2020-07-14T00:17:53Z jasom: I'm not aware of any common-lisp implementation that can keep GC pauses under, say, 100ms reliably.  However, if you don't allocate in your latency-sensitive sections, then GC pauses don't matter
2020-07-14T00:18:35Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T00:19:19Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-14T00:19:54Z jasom: z3t0: that being said, there is nothing that makes it impossible to build a lisp with very short GC pauses, it's just that optimizing for short pauses isn't something anyone has done.
2020-07-14T00:20:36Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T00:20:39Z z3t0: jasom: it hasn't been defined yet. I think mroe than maximum latency, we are aiming for predictable latency
2020-07-14T00:25:13Z wxie quit (Quit: wxie)
2020-07-14T00:27:11Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-14T00:29:37Z elderK quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-14T00:30:16Z fe[nl]ix: jasom: ABCL has two short-pause GCs by virtue of the JVM
2020-07-14T00:31:28Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-14T00:36:58Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T00:53:11Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-14T00:55:43Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-14T01:05:26Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-14T01:09:47Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T01:14:01Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-14T01:14:11Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T01:14:44Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-14T01:18:02Z White_Flame: Oladon: y0
2020-07-14T01:19:23Z White_Flame: z3t0: reducing GC latency also slows down main-line code, so that would increase your responsiveness of your code regardless of added GC latency
2020-07-14T01:19:41Z White_Flame: *reduce the responsiveness
2020-07-14T01:20:03Z White_Flame: of course, that comes in to play when the workload per event is fairly high
2020-07-14T01:20:34Z White_Flame: and some percentage increase in runtime cost would be unacceptable
2020-07-14T01:27:44Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T01:29:49Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T01:33:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T01:34:01Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T01:35:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-14T01:36:09Z madage quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T01:36:18Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-14T01:36:29Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-14T01:40:16Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-14T01:46:59Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T01:47:58Z luci666 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T01:49:49Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-14T01:51:40Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T01:51:42Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T01:53:55Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-14T01:54:39Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-14T01:55:31Z Kaisyu7 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-14T01:56:15Z ferpb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T01:56:50Z ferpb joined #lisp
2020-07-14T02:01:59Z Oladon: White_Flame: I'm hoping for some tips on figuring out what my parser should output. I'm following up on that BBCode/Commonmark parser from last time (thanks again for your version!)
2020-07-14T02:04:08Z White_Flame: sure
2020-07-14T02:04:18Z White_Flame: I haven't gotten around to packaging mine up, really busy with other stuff :-/
2020-07-14T02:04:48Z Oladon: No worries. It's been good practice :)
2020-07-14T02:05:15Z Oladon: I'm using spinneret, so technically I could probably output spinneret pseudo-DOM... but that seems kinda specific to this use case'
2020-07-14T02:05:19Z Oladon: -'
2020-07-14T02:05:20Z Kaisyu7 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T02:06:25Z White_Flame: one of the bigger things with bbcode is that you have to allow unbalanced brackets & tags to go through unmodifieed
2020-07-14T02:06:50Z White_Flame: (or at least, that's the most user-helpful failure case.  If you eat unbalanced contents, the user has no clue what went wrong)
2020-07-14T02:07:37Z White_Flame: [a][b]foo[/a][/b] has sometimes been supported in various boards, too
2020-07-14T02:09:54Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T02:13:44Z Oladon: Yeah, I decided not to try to support that last bit for now
2020-07-14T02:14:00Z Oladon: My in-order combinator allows for ignoring incomplete/unbalanced stuff
2020-07-14T02:15:12Z Oladon: Just not really sure if I should shoot for alists as output, or a list of string + DOMish AST, or what
2020-07-14T02:15:27Z Oladon: And if there are any good arguments one way or another, or if it's pretty much just preference
2020-07-14T02:16:08Z White_Flame: for this case, I'd say a list of terms, where a term is either a string or (<tag> . <terms>)
2020-07-14T02:16:20Z Oladon: hmm
2020-07-14T02:16:54Z Oladon: What about complex tags that take arguments, like [url=title]...[/url] or [color=red]?
2020-07-14T02:17:16Z White_Flame: ah, then (<tag> <params> . <terms>) :)
2020-07-14T02:17:22Z Oladon: Hmm
2020-07-14T02:17:30Z White_Flame: always have a place for the params, even if it's often nil
2020-07-14T02:17:57Z White_Flame: or make a 3-element struct the more positional you get.  But it will always contain a list of terms which can nest tags beneath it
2020-07-14T02:18:24Z z3t0: White_Flame: what is mainlinecode?
2020-07-14T02:18:28Z Oladon: Makes sense... what's the benefit of doing (x y . z) as opposed to just (x y z)?
2020-07-14T02:18:38Z jbgg quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-14T02:18:58Z lonjil quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T02:19:10Z White_Flame: just preference really
2020-07-14T02:19:20Z White_Flame: whether it's 1 list ith header stuff, vs an explicit sublist
2020-07-14T02:19:30Z White_Flame: since a cdr can be treated as a separate list, it's handy
2020-07-14T02:19:57Z Oladon: Isn't the cdr of (1 2 . 3) going to be (2 . 3)? (I think I'm missing something.)
2020-07-14T02:20:26Z White_Flame: (:b () "Bold text with an " (:i () "italicized") " word")
2020-07-14T02:20:34Z White_Flame: vs
2020-07-14T02:20:47Z White_Flame: (:b () ("Bold text with an " (:i () "italicized") " word"))
2020-07-14T02:20:58Z Oladon: Ahh
2020-07-14T02:21:56Z lonjil joined #lisp
2020-07-14T02:22:08Z White_Flame: and of course that translates easily to html
2020-07-14T02:22:16Z White_Flame: since the body is a list of stuff like that
2020-07-14T02:22:33Z Oladon: Yeah, that makes sense. Hang on, though... which one are you espousing?
2020-07-14T02:23:00Z White_Flame: I would default to the 1st one.  But the latter is useful if you add in more peer lists than the 2 that exists
2020-07-14T02:23:12Z White_Flame: again, as it becomes more positional, you probably want to move to structs
2020-07-14T02:23:27Z Oladon: Gotcha. What would your access look like for the various parts of the first one, and what do you mean by positional?
2020-07-14T02:23:31Z White_Flame: instead of having a list of 7 things in deliberate order
2020-07-14T02:23:58Z White_Flame: (<tag> <attr list> <some other list> <count> <body list> <flags> ...)
2020-07-14T02:24:06Z Oladon: Oh, you mean if I end up having (x y z aa bb . zz)
2020-07-14T02:24:07Z Oladon: gotcha
2020-07-14T02:24:08Z Oladon: yeah
2020-07-14T02:24:28Z White_Flame: each thing in the list has some position by protocol, but unenforced by anything.  THe struct keeps tract of what is where by name, which is handy when there's more than just a few associated things
2020-07-14T02:24:32Z White_Flame: yep
2020-07-14T02:25:10Z White_Flame: and defstruct can actually manage lists for you, if you need it kept as a single list of terms in meaningful positions
2020-07-14T02:25:21Z jbgg joined #lisp
2020-07-14T02:25:41Z White_Flame: (defstruct (foo (:type list)) ...)
2020-07-14T02:26:22Z ferpb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91))
2020-07-14T02:26:52Z Oladon: I haven't done much with defstruct; probably a good time to explore it
2020-07-14T02:27:04Z Oladon: CLOS seems like overkill for this :P
2020-07-14T02:27:22Z White_Flame: yeah, I use methods here & there, but almost never defclass
2020-07-14T02:27:33Z jurov_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T02:27:39Z White_Flame is probably in the minority on that one
2020-07-14T02:27:43Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-14T02:30:35Z jurov quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T02:31:11Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-14T02:32:57Z Oladon: Yeah, I like it for a lot of stuff :)
2020-07-14T02:33:45Z Oladon: Alright, so tangentially-related question for you... how in the world am I supposed to implement an escape character? :P
2020-07-14T02:34:13Z Oladon: (I should probably not be thinking about that yet, but c'est la vie...)
2020-07-14T02:36:38Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T02:37:31Z White_Flame: hmm, for what?
2020-07-14T02:37:50Z White_Flame: unescaped brackets are plain brackets in output; they don't require escaping
2020-07-14T02:38:12Z Oladon: Good point...
2020-07-14T02:38:53Z Oladon: But then it seems like my parser is going to have to backtrack
2020-07-14T02:39:01Z White_Flame: yep
2020-07-14T02:39:05Z Oladon: Ah.
2020-07-14T02:39:12Z Oladon: That's unfortunate.
2020-07-14T02:39:30Z White_Flame: well, it's just trimming output and returning to a point in the input string/stream, so it's really not bad
2020-07-14T02:40:47Z Oladon: Hmm... I can't quite visualize the path forward from where I am. Maybe I'm in the wrong place. Today I have, for example, (in-order (bbcode-open-tag) (one-or-more (anything-but ([))) (bbcode-matching-close-tag))
2020-07-14T02:40:55Z Oladon: (Of course, the middle bit is what needs to change)
2020-07-14T02:41:12Z Oladon: (This doesn't support nested tags either :))
2020-07-14T02:42:31Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-14T02:48:40Z SYMINAL quit (Quit: SYMINAL)
2020-07-14T02:48:47Z SYMINAL_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T02:48:56Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-14T02:49:12Z SYMINAL_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T02:49:22Z Oladon: Hmm, (in-order (bbcode-open-tag) (one-or-more (any (bbcode-matching-close-tag) (anything)))) works
2020-07-14T02:49:39Z Oladon: But it ain't purty ;)
2020-07-14T02:49:57Z White_Flame: it's also the first thing that works, which is a good model to then make the purty version from
2020-07-14T02:50:05Z Oladon: Heh, fair
2020-07-14T02:50:19Z White_Flame: since you then know the details that you need to get together in a better way
2020-07-14T02:50:54Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T02:56:34Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T02:59:07Z Oladon: Aight. I should log out. Appreciate your help this evening!
2020-07-14T02:59:11Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-14T02:59:20Z Oladon: Morning beach! And night to you as well!
2020-07-14T03:07:57Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-14T03:13:22Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T03:14:52Z johnjay joined #lisp
2020-07-14T03:27:51Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-14T03:30:45Z nopolitica joined #lisp
2020-07-14T03:32:05Z aaaaaa left #lisp
2020-07-14T03:38:11Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T03:38:34Z nopolitica quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-14T03:39:48Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-14T03:46:44Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-14T03:52:55Z q-u-a-n23 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T03:53:40Z minion quit (Disconnected by services)
2020-07-14T03:53:43Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-14T03:54:47Z q-u-a-n2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T03:54:48Z adlai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T03:54:48Z gko quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T03:54:58Z liead joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:04:19Z cantstanya quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T04:04:28Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-14T04:04:38Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-14T04:06:30Z cantstanya joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:09:25Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:09:36Z kinope quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-14T04:18:02Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:21:42Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:22:03Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:28:58Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:39:56Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T04:44:56Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:46:26Z ldb: good afternnon
2020-07-14T04:50:53Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:51:01Z mrcom_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T04:51:52Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:57:26Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-14T04:58:42Z beach: Hello ldb.
2020-07-14T05:00:46Z ldb: hello beach
2020-07-14T05:01:40Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-14T05:03:27Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-14T05:05:03Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-14T05:08:10Z ldb: (terpri)
2020-07-14T05:08:30Z Elronnd joined #lisp
2020-07-14T05:09:33Z Elronnd: why do some lisps (1.5?, emacs) use setq, some (cl) use setf, and some use set! (scheme)?  What do the 'q' and 'f' mean?
2020-07-14T05:09:59Z beach: q means quote.
2020-07-14T05:10:12Z beach: In the beginning there was SET that evaluated both arguments.
2020-07-14T05:10:56Z beach: I am not sure what F means, but it is used for side-effecting operations.  SETF is more versatile than SETQ because it can set places other than variables.
2020-07-14T05:11:39Z beach: Common Lisp still has SETQ and it is a special operator.
2020-07-14T05:11:53Z beach: SETF is a macro that is then expanded to simpler operators.
2020-07-14T05:12:13Z Elronnd: ah, neat
2020-07-14T05:12:40Z Elronnd: why does scheme change to set!?
2020-07-14T05:12:42Z beach: Scheme just wanted to have a more direct indication for side effects and predicates, so it uses ! and ?
2020-07-14T05:13:16Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-14T05:13:45Z beach: And I don't know how versatile Scheme set! is.  This is a Common Lisp channel after all.
2020-07-14T05:15:58Z ldb: according to Lisp Machine Manual, setf means set `form'
2020-07-14T05:16:23Z ldb: and Scheme prefer to use ! to indicate procedures with side effect
2020-07-14T05:16:26Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T05:17:38Z shangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T05:18:16Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-14T05:21:01Z beach: And the reason we don't use SET anymore is that modern Lisps want the compiler to do more work, so that efficient code can be generated.  For that to work, the name of variables must be known at compile time.  If a new variable name can magically appear, say with (SET (READ) 234), then there is little the compiler can do.
2020-07-14T05:23:22Z Elronnd: (eval `(set ,(read) 234))
2020-07-14T05:23:47Z Elronnd: s/set/setf/
2020-07-14T05:23:48Z beach: What is that example supposed to show?
2020-07-14T05:24:10Z Elronnd: that a new variable name can magically appear
2020-07-14T05:24:15Z beach: In a modern Lisp like Common Lisp, EVAL does not have access to the lexical environment.
2020-07-14T05:24:42Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T05:24:55Z beach: So (let ((x 0)) (eval `(setf ,(read) 234))) does not influence X even if that is the symbol returned by READ.
2020-07-14T05:24:59Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T05:25:31Z beach: It will affect the special variable X if there is such a thing.
2020-07-14T05:26:08Z beach: Another way of putting it is that the form given to EVAL is evaluated in the global environment, also known as the "null lexical environment".
2020-07-14T05:26:12Z beach: clhs eval
2020-07-14T05:26:12Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_eval.htm
2020-07-14T05:26:27Z Elronnd: ahh, I see
2020-07-14T05:27:46Z beach: Common Lisp was designed so that a compiler can generate fast code, if written the right way.
2020-07-14T05:28:10Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-14T05:28:11Z beach: As opposed to languages like Python that do not even pretend that it is possible to generate fast code.
2020-07-14T05:29:12Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-14T05:29:14Z ldb: if you'd like to hear a longer explaination on where does setf from, there was a SETFQ function that could alter a value produced by function, later abbreviated and adapted to Lisp Machine's SETF
2020-07-14T05:30:57Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-14T05:31:27Z karlosz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-14T05:31:57Z ldb: and that was BBN-LISP
2020-07-14T05:33:12Z beach: Elronnd: The Common Lisp standard is a very impressive piece of work.  It is clear that it was designed by a bunch of people who are both smart and knowledgeable.  That's why it is sad to see individuals without sufficient knowledge trying to "improve" the standard, or even design a "better" language.
2020-07-14T05:33:14Z terpri: schemes often have a method of extending set!, similar to setf, as with (info "(guile) Procedures with Setters")
2020-07-14T05:33:53Z beach: terpri: I think the key words here are "schemeS" and "often", meaning there is no standard.
2020-07-14T05:33:55Z terpri: not standardized as of r5rs, iirc; there's probably an srfi for it, and it might be included in some form in r6rs or r7rs
2020-07-14T05:33:59Z terpri: yeah
2020-07-14T05:39:26Z beach: Elronnd: For example, it would be tempting for some of those people to give EVAL access to the lexical environment, thereby making most compiler optimizations impossible.
2020-07-14T05:40:26Z ldb quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-14T05:40:27Z terpri: islisp has setf, but it's not arbitrarily extensible (http://islisp.org/docs/islisp-v23.pdf p35, place-form operators are limited to basic getters like car &c., and extensible only in that it can be used with slot reader functions applied to instances, iiuc)
2020-07-14T05:42:38Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T05:43:15Z terpri: ...i'm completely wrong actually, you can define (setf ...) generic functions apparently
2020-07-14T05:44:02Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-14T05:47:26Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-14T05:47:46Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T06:04:10Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-14T06:05:54Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-14T06:06:35Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T06:09:02Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-14T06:16:04Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-14T06:16:21Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-14T06:19:04Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-14T06:24:59Z vegai: so quicklisp is the contemporary way to install library dependencies, right?
2020-07-14T06:25:23Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-14T06:25:29Z beach: Well, to install the libraries.  Quicklisp handles the dependencies.
2020-07-14T06:26:24Z vegai: does it (or some other system) support lock files?
2020-07-14T06:26:57Z vegai: dunno if that's actually a required thing in cl, given the stability of most libraries
2020-07-14T06:30:36Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-14T06:30:39Z beach: What would such support do?
2020-07-14T06:31:32Z phoe: you can pin libraries by downloading them to local-projects
2020-07-14T06:31:51Z phoe: and setting the git repo to the version you want
2020-07-14T06:33:31Z ahungry: npm gets a lot of grief for node_modules/ being huge, but it is a nice convenience where my project could depend on a library at version 1.2.3, and a dependency of mine may depend on that same library at version 2.3.4, although it also lends itself well to constant backwards compatability breakage (much more than I've seen in other communities)
2020-07-14T06:33:56Z ahungry: usually the lock files maintain the exact versions for the entire dependency of dependency tree
2020-07-14T06:35:12Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T06:35:48Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T06:41:55Z shka_: oh gosh, usocket does not always raise defined conditions
2020-07-14T06:42:49Z beach: shka_: Conditions are not "raised" in Common Lisp.  They are "signaled".
2020-07-14T06:43:20Z SYMINAL joined #lisp
2020-07-14T06:43:52Z SYMINAL quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T06:44:54Z shka_: beach: oh, that makes it completely fine!
2020-07-14T06:46:00Z phoe: shka_: example?
2020-07-14T06:49:20Z shka_: moment, i have a long running task boiling down to sending requests with dexador and suddenly a cl:error (not a subclass) out of the usocket
2020-07-14T06:49:53Z shka_: i forgot to check the stack trace though :/
2020-07-14T06:49:56Z shka_: silly me
2020-07-14T06:50:15Z phoe: what was in the stack trace?
2020-07-14T06:52:10Z shka_: don't remember precisely, but i recall usocket at the top
2020-07-14T06:52:18Z shka_: but it couldn't be
2020-07-14T06:52:34Z phoe: huh
2020-07-14T06:52:49Z shka_: nothing in the usocket signals condition with a description like this
2020-07-14T06:53:04Z shka_: so perhaps i was mistaken
2020-07-14T06:53:17Z shka_: i should have save the stack trace
2020-07-14T06:53:57Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-14T06:55:22Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T07:00:05Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-14T07:00:15Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T07:02:31Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-14T07:12:39Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-14T07:12:47Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-14T07:14:11Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-14T07:17:36Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-14T07:18:07Z flip214: https://github.com/fare/asdf/blob/master/doc/best_practices.md#simple_testing has    (defsystem "foobar/tests" ...)    and a few lines further    (defsystem "foobar-tests" ...)
2020-07-14T07:18:20Z flip214: is dash or slash the current convention?
2020-07-14T07:22:18Z phoe: flip214: you forgot about "foobar.test"
2020-07-14T07:22:44Z phoe: slash happens only if both ASDF systems reside in the same ASD file
2020-07-14T07:22:49Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-14T07:37:29Z flip214: phoe: so there is no convention?
2020-07-14T07:38:34Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T07:38:46Z phoe: flip214: I've seen all three
2020-07-14T07:38:48Z cpape quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T07:38:55Z cpape joined #lisp
2020-07-14T07:39:12Z phoe: I have a personal tase for "foobar.test" that also introduces the singular/plural aspect
2020-07-14T07:39:37Z phoe: s/tase/taste/
2020-07-14T07:42:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-14T07:45:03Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-14T07:47:11Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-14T07:47:33Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-14T07:50:45Z shangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T07:59:20Z flip214: Using fiveam I see a strange behaviour. Without a (DECLARE (IGNORE ...)) I get an "unused var" warning and a failure; with the DECLARE the tests succeeds.
2020-07-14T07:59:23Z flip214: PERF-PCT evaluated to 1.4643059 which is not <= to 1.5
2020-07-14T07:59:40Z phoe: huh!
2020-07-14T07:59:48Z flip214: is the error for a (fiveam:is (<= 1.5 perf-pct))
2020-07-14T08:05:17Z flip214: grrr, now (after changing the calculation a bit) I get the error even _with_ DECLARE.  PERF-PCT evaluated to 0.94503224 which is not <= to 1.5
2020-07-14T08:05:56Z phoe: well, (<= 1.5 0.94) is false, so the test seems to work
2020-07-14T08:06:04Z phoe: I don't know about the DECLARE IGNORE thing though
2020-07-14T08:06:24Z flip214: phoe: arrrg, yeah, just found it out as well!
2020-07-14T08:06:35Z flip214: the text string produced by FIVEAM is bad
2020-07-14T08:06:46Z phoe: oh, yes, the arguments are flipped
2020-07-14T08:06:52Z phoe: (pun (not) intended)
2020-07-14T08:07:42Z flip214: phoe: thanks! ;)   writing an issue
2020-07-14T08:09:52Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:17:24Z phoe: I assume that fiveam expects some sort of equality test there
2020-07-14T08:17:37Z phoe: and that's an imperfect heuristic, as you just found out
2020-07-14T08:18:16Z phoe: and I think it may make fireworks with all sorts of asymmetric binary operators, such as TYPEP
2020-07-14T08:18:17Z flip214: phoe: (is (<= 1.1 1.4 0.9))   is less intelligent and works ;)
2020-07-14T08:18:39Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:18:52Z phoe: yes
2020-07-14T08:19:05Z flip214: https://github.com/sionescu/fiveam/issues/68
2020-07-14T08:20:57Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:24:18Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T08:32:25Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:35:24Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:36:11Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T08:36:47Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:36:53Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:37:55Z iissaacc: Does anyone know, if I have quicklisp and ultralisp dists registered in quicklisp, if its possible to specify what dist to install a package from?
2020-07-14T08:38:00Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:38:33Z iissaacc: cl-json seems to be broken on ultralisp and thats where quicklisp is trying to install it from
2020-07-14T08:39:35Z iissaacc: i.e.
2020-07-14T08:39:52Z iissaacc: #<SYSTEM cl-json / cl-json-20141217-git / quicklisp 2020-06-10>
2020-07-14T08:39:55Z iissaacc: vs
2020-07-14T08:40:11Z iissaacc: #<SYSTEM cl-json / kennytilton-qooxlisp-20200310031742 / ultralisp 20200714055506>
2020-07-14T08:41:30Z luna-is-here joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:44:11Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T08:45:11Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:47:32Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T08:49:22Z flip214: iissaacc: there's a (QL-DIST:DISABLE <dist>), perhaps that helps?
2020-07-14T08:52:39Z iissaacc: bingo
2020-07-14T08:52:44Z iissaacc: thanks flip214
2020-07-14T08:54:13Z gko`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T08:54:21Z gko`` joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:55:11Z luna-is-here quit (Quit: luna-is-here)
2020-07-14T08:55:32Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:55:37Z iissaacc: might do a bit of hackage on ql:quickload so i can specify the dist
2020-07-14T08:56:09Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-14T08:59:28Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-14T09:11:10Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T09:11:27Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T09:11:43Z luna_is_here is now known as luna-is-here
2020-07-14T09:11:44Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T09:12:00Z luna-is-here is now known as luna_is_here
2020-07-14T09:12:45Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T09:12:59Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T09:31:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T09:31:55Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T09:36:33Z pve: Is it normal for the slime modeline to sort of "flicker" about once per second?
2020-07-14T09:38:39Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T09:40:08Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-14T09:41:38Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T09:45:32Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T09:54:52Z Elronnd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-14T09:59:52Z bkst_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T10:00:13Z bkst joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:00:38Z leo_song quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-14T10:00:42Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:01:26Z lukego quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:01:27Z gko``` joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:02:06Z lad quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-14T10:02:20Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:02:23Z physpi quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:02:28Z gko`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T10:03:07Z lukego joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:03:10Z hvxgr quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:03:15Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:03:37Z liamz[m] quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:04:01Z hvxgr joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:04:07Z liamz[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:04:29Z physpi joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:05:16Z anatrope quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T10:05:42Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:06:48Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:14:17Z troydm joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:20:05Z lad quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-14T10:21:55Z leo_song quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T10:22:20Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:22:42Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:23:08Z mpontillo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:23:08Z dnm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:23:18Z dnm joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:23:27Z MrtnDk[m] quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:23:34Z l1x quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:24:43Z l1x joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:24:47Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:25:03Z MrtnDk[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:27:35Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:29:27Z lnostdal quit (Quit: "Fascism, Nazism, Communism and Socialism are only superficial variations of the same monstrous theme—collectivism." -- Ayn Rand)
2020-07-14T10:29:47Z iissaacc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T10:29:55Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:30:05Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:30:41Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:33:06Z chewb joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:42:06Z Xach: iissaacc: you can set a preference in fairly fine detail
2020-07-14T10:44:15Z iissaacc: Xach: how would one go about this?
2020-07-14T10:44:36Z iissaacc: thanks for the software btw i assume u are the eponymous xach
2020-07-14T10:46:17Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T10:46:29Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:47:35Z Xach: iissaacc: one option is ql-dist::(setf (preference (find-system-in-dist "cl-json" (dist "ultralisp"))) (get-universal-time))
2020-07-14T10:48:04Z Xach: oops
2020-07-14T10:48:09Z Xach: change that from ultralisp to quicklisp
2020-07-14T10:48:28Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:48:28Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-14T10:48:29Z Xach: also, odd that ultralisp uses cl-json bundled with qooxlisp, which is surely out of date.
2020-07-14T10:49:07Z iissaacc: yeah i feel like the best course of action is just to uninstall ultralisp
2020-07-14T10:49:20Z iissaacc: thanks for that tho, copied into emacs notes
2020-07-14T10:50:15Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-14T10:51:04Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T10:53:09Z epony quit (Quit: reconfigure-now)
2020-07-14T10:53:59Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-14T11:06:28Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T11:06:50Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-14T11:15:26Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T11:30:25Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-14T11:30:45Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-14T11:38:06Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-14T11:51:52Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T11:53:02Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T11:53:14Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T11:53:23Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-14T11:53:59Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T11:59:17Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T12:02:12Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T12:05:00Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T12:10:26Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T12:12:10Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T12:12:38Z rotty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-14T12:13:59Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T12:15:26Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-14T12:16:47Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T12:16:58Z igemnace quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-14T12:18:09Z beach: phoe: http://metamodular.com/SICL/creating-cl-abstract-2.text
2020-07-14T12:26:41Z libertyprime quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-14T12:31:24Z phoe: beach: OK, thanks. Will announce today.
2020-07-14T12:32:17Z beach: Great!
2020-07-14T12:38:42Z Posterdati: hi
2020-07-14T12:39:00Z beach: Hello Posterdati.
2020-07-14T12:39:12Z Posterdati: beach: hello!
2020-07-14T12:39:46Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-14T12:40:52Z Posterdati: is anyone reviewing gsll and cffi to work under sbcl on OpenBSD?
2020-07-14T12:58:40Z flip214: Is there a way to ensure that some function will not be optimized away? I'd like to keep a FILL-SEQUENCE in, even if the sequence is only dynamic extent and not used later on
2020-07-14T12:59:51Z beach: Functions in the global environment will not be optimized away.
2020-07-14T13:00:14Z jackdaniel: if it is a local function, you may force its escape
2020-07-14T13:00:24Z jackdaniel: i.e (push #'fill-sequence *my-trashbin*)
2020-07-14T13:01:37Z Bike: fill-sequence is your own function? it's unlikely the compiler is willing to optimize away a call to a possibly redefinable function. are you observing it doing so?
2020-07-14T13:02:03Z flip214: I'm sorry, I don't understand you. I want to keep the _call_ of the function in, making sure that it's not eliminated as dead-code or so.
2020-07-14T13:02:48Z flip214: Bike: I want to destroy a secret key in a vector; and C has a history of optimizing things (like a memset) away, so I thought I'd better ask.
2020-07-14T13:02:58Z Bike: ah, right, like that bzero stuff
2020-07-14T13:04:05Z Bike: to be really sure you'll probably have to check the disassembly, and then if it's still removed... well... talk to the implementation devs probably
2020-07-14T13:05:55Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T13:13:24Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-14T13:14:25Z flip214: so there's no cross-platform way, like a (LOCALLY (OPTIMIZE (space 0) (debug 3) (safety 100))) or so? thanks
2020-07-14T13:15:49Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T13:16:18Z Bike: notinline is the closest thing, i think
2020-07-14T13:16:19Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T13:16:42Z leo_song quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-14T13:16:56Z Bike: i would be surprised if a compiler optimized away a call to a notinline function. assuming that by "dead code" you mean that the result isn't used etc, rather than that the code is unreachable
2020-07-14T13:17:53Z Bike: notinline tells the compiler it can't assume anything about the function, essentially; so perhaps it has some visible side effects, so it can't be optimized away
2020-07-14T13:20:09Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T13:20:45Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T13:20:51Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T13:21:10Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T13:22:05Z liberliver quit (Quit: liberliver)
2020-07-14T13:31:16Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-14T13:32:09Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-14T13:37:00Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T13:44:31Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2020-07-14T13:46:27Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-14T13:50:59Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T13:51:45Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T13:52:23Z luci666 is now known as lucifer_h
2020-07-14T13:53:05Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T13:54:25Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-14T13:56:00Z ski quit (Killed (Sigyn (Stay safe off irc)))
2020-07-14T13:59:46Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T14:02:45Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:02:58Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-14T14:07:19Z ski joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:10:47Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T14:11:21Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:11:48Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:15:00Z chewb quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T14:15:30Z gabiruh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T14:15:45Z gabiruh joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:16:12Z boeg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T14:17:23Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T14:17:25Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:17:58Z cairn quit (Changing host)
2020-07-14T14:17:58Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:17:59Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:18:02Z boeg joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:18:03Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:25:34Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T14:27:08Z ferpb joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:33:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T14:33:17Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:34:48Z chewb joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:36:07Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T14:36:22Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:50:59Z jbgg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T14:51:58Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:52:11Z lonjil quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T14:52:40Z jbgg joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:53:35Z lonjil joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:56:54Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:57:12Z dxtr quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
2020-07-14T14:57:19Z dxtr joined #lisp
2020-07-14T14:57:20Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-14T15:06:25Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-14T15:10:42Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T15:25:39Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-14T15:27:12Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T15:27:56Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T15:33:18Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-14T15:36:53Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T15:37:47Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T15:39:14Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-14T15:45:14Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T16:00:35Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T16:01:12Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:02:38Z sympt__ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:03:59Z cosimone_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T16:04:29Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:05:51Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:06:48Z sympt_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-14T16:09:19Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:15:03Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:29:54Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T16:31:34Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T16:34:46Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T16:34:58Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:35:05Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T16:36:33Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:36:53Z cosimone_ quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-14T16:38:15Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:38:59Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-14T16:39:14Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:41:14Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:43:50Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-14T16:45:58Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T16:49:13Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:53:51Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T16:54:20Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:58:07Z ineiros joined #lisp
2020-07-14T16:59:42Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-14T16:59:54Z chewb: hello, i am learning Common Lisp using Portacle
2020-07-14T17:00:19Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T17:00:42Z chewb: afair i can select previous command i inputed into SLIME REPL by clicking cursor on it and RET
2020-07-14T17:00:56Z chewb: but i cant do it now, i get message "Buffer is read only|
2020-07-14T17:00:59Z chewb: why?
2020-07-14T17:07:16Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T17:08:35Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T17:09:31Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-14T17:09:31Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-14T17:09:31Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-14T17:10:21Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-14T17:12:39Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-14T17:13:57Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T17:15:56Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T17:34:07Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-14T17:39:59Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-14T17:47:40Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-14T17:52:40Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T17:54:54Z srji quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T17:59:44Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:06:40Z beach: chewb: Try M-p instead.
2020-07-14T18:07:04Z beach: chewb: I use M-r a lot to search for the previous form of a certain kind that I typed.
2020-07-14T18:11:24Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:11:40Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:13:18Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T18:13:34Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:16:28Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T18:16:47Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:18:24Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:19:26Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:20:54Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T18:23:39Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T18:23:51Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:25:47Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T18:27:32Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:34:32Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T18:34:53Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:46:06Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-14T18:48:01Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-14T18:53:48Z thecoffemaker quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T18:56:05Z thecoffemaker joined #lisp
2020-07-14T18:56:13Z flip214: Bike: yeah, thanks... still, this is one not-so-nice part of a SSC. I thought about doing (funcall 'fill-sequence vec) - that can't be inlined or optimized away unless (setf symbol-function) etc. is gone, too - but that "feels" unclean and non-optimal
2020-07-14T18:56:37Z flip214: CL is old enough that there should be a optimization setting for that ;)
2020-07-14T18:57:20Z Bike: declaring notinline is basically the same as doing that funcall
2020-07-14T19:00:51Z flip214: okay, thanks a lot!
2020-07-14T19:01:19Z Bike: no problem
2020-07-14T19:02:48Z flip214: ah, and I meant FILL when I wrote FILL-SEQUENCE
2020-07-14T19:03:25Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T19:04:59Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T19:07:44Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:09:11Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T19:09:27Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:12:20Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-14T19:12:44Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T19:12:45Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-14T19:12:59Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:13:08Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:13:24Z luna_is_here quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T19:13:38Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:15:00Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:18:01Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T19:18:07Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:20:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:26:22Z Elronnd joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:39:22Z chewb: thank you beach Alt-p works
2020-07-14T19:40:50Z chewb: do you know how to quickly disable paredit?
2020-07-14T19:42:57Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:43:11Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:43:11Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-14T19:43:11Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:44:24Z Bike: M-x disable-paredit-mode, i think?
2020-07-14T19:46:59Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T19:49:13Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:53:09Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-14T19:53:58Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-14T20:01:36Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-14T20:01:44Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T20:02:54Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-14T20:03:39Z moon-child joined #lisp
2020-07-14T20:06:05Z jal` joined #lisp
2020-07-14T20:07:29Z moon-child left #lisp
2020-07-14T20:11:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-14T20:12:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T20:14:34Z jal` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T20:17:14Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-14T20:19:20Z theseb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T20:22:47Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-14T20:23:00Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-14T20:28:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-14T20:29:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T20:37:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T20:37:44Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T20:40:01Z gxt quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-14T20:41:40Z Elronnd quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-14T20:43:30Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T20:47:55Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-14T20:49:38Z aindilis quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T20:49:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T20:50:01Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-14T20:52:22Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:03:54Z ayuce quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:04:59Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:05:11Z RukiSama_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:05:52Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:06:14Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:08:02Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:08:58Z RukiSama quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:10:11Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:10:49Z mankaev quit
2020-07-14T21:10:57Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:11:10Z ym quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:11:18Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T21:12:24Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-14T21:13:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:17:26Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:20:14Z brown121407 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:20:51Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:23:33Z ym joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:24:12Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:24:33Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:26:21Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:27:32Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:27:54Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:32:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:32:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:35:55Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:45:00Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T21:45:25Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T21:51:25Z refpga quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T21:58:51Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:11:42Z grumble quit (Quit: WASHINGTON, DC—In a move designed to make the United States seem more "bad-assed and scary in a quasi-heavy-metal manner," Congress officially changed the nation's name to the Ünited Stätes of Ämerica Monday. "Much like Mötley Crüe and Motörhead,)
2020-07-14T22:12:17Z grumble joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:13:37Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:13:48Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T22:18:44Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:18:57Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-14T22:19:32Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:20:11Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T22:20:36Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-14T22:21:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:22:05Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:23:39Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-14T22:28:37Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-14T22:29:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:37:01Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-14T22:37:44Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:41:20Z red-dot quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T22:41:40Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:46:52Z ferpb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T22:48:22Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:49:10Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:49:36Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T22:49:42Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-14T22:51:19Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-14T22:52:08Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-14T22:52:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T22:55:46Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T22:59:45Z teej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:00:59Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:01:11Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:03:56Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:05:36Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T23:06:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:06:56Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T23:09:47Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:10:25Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-14T23:11:26Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:14:26Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:16:35Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:17:15Z rats joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:28:08Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:28:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:30:22Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-14T23:31:09Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:33:47Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:35:31Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:36:05Z paul0 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-14T23:36:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:37:02Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:37:23Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:37:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:38:13Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:38:29Z rats quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2020-07-14T23:38:58Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:39:47Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:46:34Z rixard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-14T23:47:47Z rixard joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:49:05Z ferpb joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:50:10Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:50:18Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:52:43Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:54:07Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:54:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:55:35Z Tsu joined #lisp
2020-07-14T23:56:28Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:57:12Z karlosz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-14T23:59:44Z Tsu quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T00:02:04Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:09:07Z Tsu joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:17:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T00:17:28Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:18:48Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:19:03Z chewb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-15T00:19:58Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:25:22Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T00:28:59Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T00:29:41Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:29:47Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T00:31:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:32:55Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:34:15Z Tsu quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-15T00:36:09Z Tsu joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:42:38Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:45:22Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T00:47:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T00:48:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:53:03Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:54:33Z Oladon: vegai: Yeah, Quicklisp supports the concept
2020-07-15T00:55:34Z z3t0: Does anyone here hack around with lisp on any mobile devices?
2020-07-15T00:55:38Z Tsu quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T00:55:56Z Oladon: I used to use it on a Zaurus, does that count? Oh, and a Palm Pilot.
2020-07-15T00:56:07Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T00:56:18Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T00:57:52Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T00:59:50Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T01:02:09Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:04:10Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T01:05:01Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T01:05:05Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:05:26Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:07:42Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T01:09:54Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:13:27Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:13:55Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-15T01:14:16Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-15T01:15:48Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T01:15:56Z z3t0: that's cool! especially the palm pilot actually
2020-07-15T01:15:58Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:16:16Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:16:29Z z3t0: Did the pilot have apis for drawing? Or how did you handle that?
2020-07-15T01:18:44Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:23:50Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:26:02Z Oladon: Drawing? You just typed your code...
2020-07-15T01:26:23Z Oladon: Don't tell the channel, but I believe it was a Scheme variant. ;)
2020-07-15T01:27:08Z aaaaaa quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-15T01:29:23Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T01:29:40Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T01:30:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:44:06Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:45:10Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:45:16Z ldb: good morning everyone
2020-07-15T01:46:07Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-15T01:46:11Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T01:48:38Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T01:53:24Z ferpb left #lisp
2020-07-15T01:57:03Z z3t0: Oladon: Oh. I noticed it had a pen/stylus? I thought it would support drawing lines and what
2020-07-15T01:58:00Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T01:58:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T02:00:00Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T02:00:08Z Oladon: Oh, maybe. Don't recall doing any drawing in Lisp specifically, but it had a pretty spiffy handwriting recognition system
2020-07-15T02:00:31Z Oladon: ldb: Morning!
2020-07-15T02:02:17Z z3t0: thats neat! I'm trying to do a survey of gui tooklits. What I'd like to write is an application that runs on linux and has support for touch paradigms. I also plan to hack together a handwriting component. So far I'm looking into ltk - wondering if it's easy to write custom components there.
2020-07-15T02:02:40Z z3t0: I want to avoid qt for now since its a much larger dependency and I don't plan to use much of what it offers
2020-07-15T02:02:45Z z3t0: ldb: morning :D
2020-07-15T02:03:05Z Oladon: Haven't used LTK, sorry :)
2020-07-15T02:03:15Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T02:07:14Z ldb: is there any linux distro already having touch screen support?
2020-07-15T02:09:17Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T02:09:20Z ldb: other than Andriod, if that is considered as a linux distro
2020-07-15T02:10:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T02:10:33Z akoana: well gnome3 (available on many distros) should support touch screen well
2020-07-15T02:11:56Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T02:11:57Z ldb: akoana: thank you
2020-07-15T02:12:30Z akoana: same for KDE Plasma (so Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu ... all the "main" distros)
2020-07-15T02:28:15Z ldb left #lisp
2020-07-15T02:36:41Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-15T02:36:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T02:40:41Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-15T02:43:55Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T02:44:16Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-15T02:54:54Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T02:55:06Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-15T02:55:06Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-15T02:55:07Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-15T02:56:34Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T02:56:59Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T02:59:47Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T03:00:47Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T03:03:17Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T03:07:26Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-15T03:10:52Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-15T03:12:36Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-15T03:16:45Z iissaacc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T03:18:21Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-15T03:20:33Z Oladon: beach: Morning!
2020-07-15T03:21:10Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-15T03:23:47Z gjulio_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T03:39:28Z elderK quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-15T03:42:34Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T03:44:24Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-15T03:44:40Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-15T03:47:52Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-15T03:50:49Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T03:52:02Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T03:59:43Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-15T04:02:50Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T04:04:28Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-15T04:17:10Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-15T04:19:14Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T04:20:49Z bsd4me quit (Quit: ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!)
2020-07-15T04:20:59Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-15T04:29:13Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-15T04:37:47Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T04:38:29Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T04:43:37Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T04:44:10Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-15T04:46:23Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-15T04:53:41Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T05:07:28Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-15T05:09:47Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-15T05:10:59Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T05:12:58Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-15T05:32:59Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T05:33:18Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T05:38:17Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-15T05:39:16Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-15T05:42:30Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-15T05:46:02Z gjulio_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T05:46:27Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T05:47:07Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-15T05:54:38Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T05:55:27Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T05:57:03Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T05:57:42Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T06:03:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:07:08Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T06:08:10Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:10:04Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T06:11:25Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:12:02Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-15T06:12:19Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-15T06:13:32Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:14:59Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T06:15:50Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:21:00Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:26:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T06:26:06Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:27:31Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:28:37Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:29:10Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T06:43:19Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:46:21Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-15T06:47:48Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T06:48:27Z rgherdt_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:48:45Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:52:25Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T06:54:45Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T06:59:31Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:01:25Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2020-07-15T07:02:38Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:02:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T07:02:55Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:04:42Z libertyprime quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-15T07:07:24Z jprajzne1 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:09:32Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T07:10:08Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:13:17Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-15T07:16:18Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:16:45Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T07:18:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:25:02Z ldb quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-15T07:25:56Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-15T07:26:36Z rgherdt_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-15T07:26:56Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:28:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T07:28:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:35:01Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T07:35:16Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:37:04Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T07:37:37Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:39:06Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T07:39:21Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:42:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T07:42:26Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:43:10Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T07:43:26Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:47:12Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T07:47:35Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:49:15Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T07:50:35Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:51:16Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T07:51:32Z McParen joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:51:38Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:53:36Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T07:55:20Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T07:55:34Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:55:34Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:55:52Z clothespin_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T07:59:25Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T07:59:27Z clothespin quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-15T07:59:42Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:03:05Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:03:07Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:03:26Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:03:43Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:03:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T08:04:17Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T08:04:38Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:04:45Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:04:58Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T08:07:29Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:08:02Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:10:11Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:11:33Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:11:48Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:12:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T08:13:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:15:34Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:15:58Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:16:51Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:19:38Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:19:55Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:20:53Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T08:21:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:25:07Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-15T08:25:43Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:26:01Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:26:03Z epony quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T08:26:26Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-15T08:28:20Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:29:43Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:29:57Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:32:46Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:35:23Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T08:35:50Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:36:08Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:36:32Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:37:17Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-15T08:38:01Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T08:39:35Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:39:50Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:40:06Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:42:04Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T08:42:58Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T08:43:53Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:44:07Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:47:54Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:48:16Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:51:57Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T08:52:15Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:56:01Z countvaj` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-15T08:56:19Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T08:56:22Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:00:01Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:00:24Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:03:27Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:04:06Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:04:24Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:08:10Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:08:26Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:10:54Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T09:11:11Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:12:10Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:12:25Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:16:13Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:16:46Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:20:18Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:20:35Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:22:20Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:24:21Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:24:34Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:28:21Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:28:34Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:32:25Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:32:39Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:38:05Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T09:38:23Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:45:10Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:46:54Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:48:42Z MidHotaru joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:54:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T09:56:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:56:35Z phadthai quit (Quit: EWAYSRCH: Cannot host route (no route to host))
2020-07-15T09:56:45Z phadthai joined #lisp
2020-07-15T09:59:21Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:06:12Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T10:09:33Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T10:09:57Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-15T10:11:05Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:17:16Z gmeister joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:21:29Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:21:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:24:57Z gmeister quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-15T10:27:40Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:30:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T10:31:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:36:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T10:41:21Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T10:43:20Z ferpb joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:48:54Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:51:54Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T10:52:03Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-15T10:52:45Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:55:56Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T10:58:41Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-15T10:59:50Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:03:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T11:03:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:05:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:05:41Z jurov_ is now known as jurov
2020-07-15T11:09:14Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:09:37Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-15T11:14:44Z kleptoflora quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T11:15:10Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:18:13Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T11:18:15Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T11:18:33Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T11:19:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:22:07Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:28:34Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:28:35Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T11:29:52Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:33:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T11:37:48Z gxt quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-15T11:49:38Z gera joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:50:12Z bpanthi977 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T11:52:22Z bpanthi977 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T11:58:27Z MidHotaru quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-15T12:06:27Z flip214: When I use (MERGE-PATHNAMES *dir* "some/filename.ext"), can I specify *DIR* in a way that the "filename.ext" is removed from the result?
2020-07-15T12:08:03Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:08:10Z scymtym: does (merge-pathnames *dir* (make-pathname :directory (pathname-directory "some/filename.ext"))) work?
2020-07-15T12:08:48Z loli quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-15T12:09:44Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:10:48Z flip214: scymtym: yeah, but I hoped for some change in the config only (modifying *dir*)... ;)
2020-07-15T12:11:42Z flip214: thanks!
2020-07-15T12:13:02Z loli joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:13:25Z scymtym: you could surround the result with (make-pathname :name nil :type nil :version nil :defaults RESULT)
2020-07-15T12:13:44Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:15:30Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T12:18:14Z Posterdati: hi
2020-07-15T12:19:01Z Posterdati: seems that even ecl does not work with gsll on OpenBSD :(
2020-07-15T12:19:49Z McParen left #lisp
2020-07-15T12:21:12Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:22:41Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:23:25Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:25:27Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:25:52Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T12:29:03Z gera quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T12:29:54Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:30:17Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T12:39:52Z ferpb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-15T12:43:17Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-15T12:45:43Z phoe: annnnd we're on HN frontpage https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23843525
2020-07-15T12:46:44Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:47:08Z gera joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:47:47Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T12:47:57Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:48:21Z beach: Congratulations!
2020-07-15T12:49:19Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:50:21Z jebes joined #lisp
2020-07-15T12:54:04Z gera quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T12:54:55Z gera joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:03:55Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:17:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-15T13:18:34Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:19:28Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T13:22:11Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-15T13:22:36Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:22:50Z jw4 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T13:24:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:31:11Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-15T13:31:27Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:34:25Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:35:58Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:37:43Z gera quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T13:39:53Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:44:52Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T13:46:07Z jebes quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T13:50:02Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:52:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T13:57:58Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T13:58:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T13:59:55Z eta: phoe, oh crap you're writing a book?
2020-07-15T14:00:00Z eta just saw that on HN
2020-07-15T14:00:05Z eta: yay more lisp content!
2020-07-15T14:00:55Z phoe: eta: well, I did write one
2020-07-15T14:01:06Z eta: :o
2020-07-15T14:01:07Z eta: which
2020-07-15T14:01:21Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:01:23Z beach: He means that it is done.
2020-07-15T14:01:27Z phoe: ^
2020-07-15T14:01:28Z eta: oh I see
2020-07-15T14:01:32Z eta nod
2020-07-15T14:01:35Z phoe: it's done, written, in typesetting now
2020-07-15T14:01:41Z eta: makes sense
2020-07-15T14:01:56Z eta: well, I mean, the last lisp books I read were land of lisp and the weitz one
2020-07-15T14:02:02Z eta: so it'll be nice to read something new!
2020-07-15T14:02:14Z shka_: phoe: have written
2020-07-15T14:02:44Z phoe: shka_: thanks
2020-07-15T14:02:55Z shka_: you are welcome
2020-07-15T14:06:27Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T14:06:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:07:48Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:10:38Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:14:07Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T14:17:01Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T14:17:51Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:18:50Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:19:30Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T14:26:28Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T14:26:32Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:31:21Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:32:03Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:35:31Z jprajzne1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-15T14:35:48Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T14:36:06Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T14:37:44Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:41:11Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:43:06Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:45:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:45:13Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-15T14:46:51Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:47:14Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T14:52:56Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T14:53:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T14:55:44Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T14:58:50Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:02:53Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:03:18Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T15:05:14Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T15:06:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-15T15:07:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:07:09Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:10:11Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T15:12:12Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:12:12Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T15:12:20Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-15T15:12:37Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:12:40Z jmercouris: hello everyone
2020-07-15T15:13:03Z beach: Hello jmercouris.
2020-07-15T15:13:05Z rgherdt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T15:13:09Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-15T15:13:10Z jmercouris: :-)
2020-07-15T15:13:22Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T15:15:01Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T15:15:40Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:16:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:16:57Z phoe: heyyyyy
2020-07-15T15:17:09Z dyelar joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:20:39Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T15:25:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T15:25:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:25:48Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:27:17Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T15:27:59Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:29:27Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:37:18Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:41:16Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T15:41:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:47:16Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:48:06Z nullheroes quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-15T15:49:54Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-15T15:52:12Z brown121407 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-15T15:53:35Z gjulio joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:54:34Z ferpb joined #lisp
2020-07-15T15:56:20Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:01:47Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T16:02:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T16:02:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:05:10Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T16:09:30Z theosvoitha joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:11:12Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:17:25Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:17:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-15T16:17:50Z ferpb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-15T16:18:35Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:19:17Z theosvoitha: Hello Is it worth to learn Emacs Lisp?
2020-07-15T16:19:35Z phoe: theosvoitha: well
2020-07-15T16:19:41Z phoe: you landed in a place full of Common Lisp programmers
2020-07-15T16:19:48Z phoe: so we can certainly tell you that it is worth to learn Common Lisp
2020-07-15T16:20:00Z phoe: but #emacs might be a better place for your original question
2020-07-15T16:20:23Z theosvoitha: okay thanks phoe.
2020-07-15T16:22:11Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-15T16:22:28Z theosvoitha: They clearly asked me to learn other lisps (Other than emacs lisp_
2020-07-15T16:22:33Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:22:51Z beach: They?
2020-07-15T16:23:01Z theosvoitha: #emacs
2020-07-15T16:23:05Z beach: Ah.
2020-07-15T16:23:07Z phoe: well then! you landed in a right place
2020-07-15T16:23:13Z beach: Then Common Lisp is a good choice.
2020-07-15T16:23:17Z theosvoitha: ha ha. so guide me.
2020-07-15T16:23:27Z theosvoitha: i mean what can i do..
2020-07-15T16:23:35Z jackdaniel: minion: tell theosvoitha about pcl
2020-07-15T16:23:36Z minion: theosvoitha: please see pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2020-07-15T16:23:39Z jackdaniel: minion: tell theosvoitha about paip
2020-07-15T16:23:39Z minion: theosvoitha: paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming. More about Common Lisp than Artificial Intelligence. Now freely available at https://github.com/norvig/paip-lisp
2020-07-15T16:24:05Z jackdaniel: minion: tell theosvoitha about portacle
2020-07-15T16:24:06Z minion: theosvoitha: portacle: Portacle is a complete IDE for Common Lisp that you can take with you on a USB stick https://shinmera.github.io/portacle/
2020-07-15T16:24:18Z jackdaniel: minion: thank you
2020-07-15T16:24:19Z minion: you're welcome
2020-07-15T16:25:22Z jackdaniel: feel guided
2020-07-15T16:25:30Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T16:25:32Z jackdaniel makes some weird movements with his hand
2020-07-15T16:25:54Z theosvoitha: thanks jackdaniel minion.
2020-07-15T16:26:33Z beach: theosvoitha: For newbie questions, there is help in #clschool too.
2020-07-15T16:26:54Z theosvoitha: thanks beach
2020-07-15T16:27:06Z beach: Sure.
2020-07-15T16:27:17Z theosvoitha: I guess now i need to find some replacement for GNU emacs.
2020-07-15T16:27:35Z jackdaniel: most people who work with open source common lisp implementations use gnu emacs
2020-07-15T16:27:37Z jackdaniel: see portacle
2020-07-15T16:27:52Z jackdaniel: which is emacs with batties included
2020-07-15T16:27:57Z jackdaniel: batteries
2020-07-15T16:28:43Z theosvoitha: Portacle is a complete IDE for Common Lisp
2020-07-15T16:29:43Z beach: Sort of.  It is a collection of components.
2020-07-15T16:29:48Z beach: Emacs is one component.
2020-07-15T16:30:00Z beach: SBCL is the Common Lisp implementation component.
2020-07-15T16:30:22Z beach: SLIME is another component.
2020-07-15T16:30:27Z theosvoitha: downloading
2020-07-15T16:30:58Z theosvoitha: If you guys do not mind, can you suggest me some GNU Emacs alternative now.
2020-07-15T16:31:23Z phoe: emacs
2020-07-15T16:31:29Z beach: Why do you want an alternative?
2020-07-15T16:31:43Z phoe: it takes a while to get used to, but slime/sly are the best choices for developing lisp stuff.
2020-07-15T16:32:09Z phoe: there also exists SLIMA for Atom - it seems to be getting somewhat good
2020-07-15T16:32:11Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T16:32:15Z phoe: and also slimv/vlime for VIM
2020-07-15T16:32:29Z theosvoitha: Because i was told at #emacs that you need to learn Emacs lisp to use it properly. But they also say that better learn other Lisps
2020-07-15T16:32:38Z beach: NOOOOO
2020-07-15T16:32:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-15T16:32:46Z theosvoitha: oops
2020-07-15T16:33:06Z beach: theosvoitha: When you use GNU Emacs with Common Lisp, you don't need to know anything about Emacs Lisp.
2020-07-15T16:33:09Z beach: Or very little.
2020-07-15T16:33:15Z phoe: ^
2020-07-15T16:33:16Z jasom never learned emacs lisp
2020-07-15T16:33:18Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:33:30Z bitmapper: and by the time you learn common lisp you'll know most of emacs lisp anyway
2020-07-15T16:33:30Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T16:33:45Z phoe: there exist emacs distributions like spacemacs that bundle a lot of software, including slime/sly - you can use those to avoid writing your own emacs configuration files
2020-07-15T16:33:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:33:54Z bitmapper: because emacs lisp ⊆ common lisp
2020-07-15T16:34:08Z jasom: I guess I learned enough to be able to put things like (enable-foo) in my init.el but that's mostly treating it like a configuration format, not a programming language
2020-07-15T16:34:09Z bitmapper: in a sense
2020-07-15T16:34:17Z theosvoitha: bitmapper: beach This cleared the stuff.
2020-07-15T16:34:32Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:35:17Z theosvoitha: I tried spacemacs for Windows but it needs some workaround.
2020-07-15T16:36:46Z _death: actually elisp is a much larger language than CL
2020-07-15T16:37:10Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-15T16:37:33Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:39:24Z theosvoitha: thanks to all you guys for all openness and help!!
2020-07-15T16:39:52Z beach: Pleasure.  Good luck!
2020-07-15T16:42:54Z xristos: _death: how so?
2020-07-15T16:43:34Z _death: xristos: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/elisp.html
2020-07-15T16:44:00Z _death: xristos: you need to learn about buffers, windows, etc.
2020-07-15T16:44:36Z xristos: but these concepts are really Emacs models, not Emacs Lisp
2020-07-15T16:44:49Z xristos: you could throw CLIM in with the CL spec and get a similar inflation
2020-07-15T16:44:59Z phoe: but they're an official™ part of elisp
2020-07-15T16:45:01Z xristos: the core language is much much smaller than CL
2020-07-15T16:45:22Z phoe: *this* is the core language
2020-07-15T16:45:32Z xristos: it really isn't
2020-07-15T16:45:44Z phoe: of course that one can carve out a subset that doesn't deal with buffers or windows or all the emacsisms stuffed in there
2020-07-15T16:45:49Z _death: if CLIM were part of the Common Lisp specification... anyway, I know what you mean, and now you know what I meant..
2020-07-15T16:46:15Z phoe: but puritans will then start whining that it isn't elisp anymore, and if you know just that tiny subset then you don't really know lisp.
2020-07-15T16:46:20Z phoe: s/know lisp/know elisp/
2020-07-15T16:47:00Z xristos: can you separate the Emacs models from Emacs Lisp and still have a coherent, useful language?
2020-07-15T16:47:03Z xristos: for me the answer is yes
2020-07-15T16:47:12Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-15T16:47:14Z phoe: is that language still elisp?
2020-07-15T16:47:15Z xristos: if the answer was no, i'd agree with both of you
2020-07-15T16:47:19Z phoe: that's the troublesome question
2020-07-15T16:47:20Z xristos: phoe: Guile thinks so
2020-07-15T16:47:28Z _death: elisp doesn't have a standard, and so the language grows (or shrinks) with almost every change of the manual
2020-07-15T16:47:41Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-15T16:48:04Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-15T16:48:04Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:48:17Z roze joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:48:32Z phoe: Guile thinks so to the point where its "elisp" still cannot be used to run most of emacs code though
2020-07-15T16:48:44Z phoe: but then again, we're diving into nomenclature here
2020-07-15T16:48:52Z phoe: and what really can be named "elisp"
2020-07-15T16:49:02Z phoe: I don't think it's fruitful to continue this particular discussion :D
2020-07-15T16:49:36Z theosvoitha: Is there any Lisp IRC Client I can use and learn to hack?
2020-07-15T16:49:51Z jackdaniel: beirc, but it has quite a few issues
2020-07-15T16:50:01Z phoe: birch, trivial-irc
2020-07-15T16:50:04Z xristos: theosvoitha: rcirc in Emacs
2020-07-15T16:50:08Z jackdaniel: there is also a library to sue irc from repl
2020-07-15T16:50:23Z theosvoitha: xristos: I will try that
2020-07-15T16:50:31Z beach: xristos: I think we agreed that theosvoitha wanted something other than Emacs Lisp.
2020-07-15T16:50:31Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-15T16:51:04Z xristos: if you did, i missed it
2020-07-15T16:51:21Z jackdaniel: real lisp programmers have a hardware keyboards with two keys: #\( and #\), you program in binary code for your processor, but having parenthesis instead of 0 and 1 is a nice touch ;)
2020-07-15T16:51:25Z jackdaniel: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.7BT-m3F1_qru0lHDEkYHFQHaF_%26pid%3DApi&f=1
2020-07-15T16:51:26Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:51:40Z jackdaniel: (here is a prototype of the keyboard with wrong keys)
2020-07-15T16:51:41Z phoe: jackdaniel: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Parenthesis_Hell
2020-07-15T16:51:47Z phoe: you obviously mean this lisp dialect
2020-07-15T16:51:52Z theosvoitha: I am running Portable. At it's bottom something called 'polling' is like increasing in number each second.
2020-07-15T16:52:02Z theosvoitha: *Portacle
2020-07-15T16:52:07Z phoe: theosvoitha: hmm, so it's trying to run Common Lisp
2020-07-15T16:52:11Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-15T16:52:17Z phoe: what does the *inferior-lisp* buffer say?
2020-07-15T16:52:34Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:52:42Z theosvoitha: 289 78%
2020-07-15T16:53:17Z phoe: no no, I mean the contents - can you give us a screenshot?
2020-07-15T16:53:55Z theosvoitha: yeah. l fear say i do not know some website to share.
2020-07-15T16:53:58Z theosvoitha: let me google
2020-07-15T16:53:59Z phoe: imgur.com
2020-07-15T16:56:23Z theosvoitha: https://imgur.com/a/XJT89PJ
2020-07-15T16:56:49Z phoe: oh snap
2020-07-15T16:57:02Z phoe: that's a Windows exception that happened for whatever bloody reason
2020-07-15T16:57:26Z theosvoitha: oh
2020-07-15T16:57:44Z phoe: 1722 is 0x000006BA... huh
2020-07-15T16:57:51Z phoe: I have no idea what is going on in there
2020-07-15T16:58:00Z theosvoitha: ok
2020-07-15T16:58:01Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:58:03Z jackdaniel: does it try to open the port 0 for slime connection?
2020-07-15T16:58:28Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:58:29Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-15T16:58:29Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-15T16:58:38Z theosvoitha: jackdaniel: really i do not know how to check that
2020-07-15T16:58:51Z jackdaniel: me neither, just guessing
2020-07-15T16:59:08Z jackdaniel: I'm not portacle user myself, so I can't tell
2020-07-15T16:59:37Z theosvoitha: WARNING: the Windows port is fragile, particularly for multithreaded
2020-07-15T16:59:38Z theosvoitha: code.  Unfortunately, the development team currently lacks the time
2020-07-15T16:59:38Z theosvoitha: and resources this platform demands.
2020-07-15T16:59:56Z jackdaniel: in the inferior lisp buffer press "1", then "enter", and then 8089 (and enter)
2020-07-15T17:00:08Z phoe: does this thing also happen if you download SBCL yourself and try to run it?
2020-07-15T17:00:10Z jackdaniel: you may also try demo version of the lispworks product
2020-07-15T17:00:14Z theosvoitha:    redefining EMACS-INSPECT (#<SB-PCL:SYSTEM-CLASS COMMON-LISP:T>) in DEFMETHOD
2020-07-15T17:00:14Z theosvoitha:  
2020-07-15T17:00:14Z theosvoitha: debugger invoked on a SB-WIN32:EXCEPTION in thread
2020-07-15T17:00:14Z theosvoitha: #<THREAD "main thread" RUNNING {10010C0523}>:
2020-07-15T17:00:14Z theosvoitha:   An exception occurred in context #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X0022CEE0): #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X0022DD80). (Exception code: 1722)
2020-07-15T17:00:27Z phoe: yes, that's the error from the screenshot
2020-07-15T17:01:14Z theosvoitha: phoe i never tried SBCL
2020-07-15T17:01:55Z theosvoitha: i just want a platform to learn CL. With text editor to work on daily files.
2020-07-15T17:02:09Z phoe: you might have chosen a wrong language for that
2020-07-15T17:02:18Z phoe: CL is an interactive language, which means that it needs some support from the text editor
2020-07-15T17:02:37Z phoe: the editor needs to be able to connect to the running Lisp and send commands to it and receive commands from it
2020-07-15T17:02:39Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:02:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-15T17:02:49Z phoe: that's what slime/sly does for emacs.
2020-07-15T17:02:49Z _death: you can try entering 0 to continue.. is F a network drive?
2020-07-15T17:03:24Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:03:29Z theosvoitha: let me try unzipping again
2020-07-15T17:03:57Z _death: maybe to a path without space characters..
2020-07-15T17:05:04Z theosvoitha: yes _death
2020-07-15T17:07:12Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-15T17:07:34Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:09:14Z theosvoitha: same thing...
2020-07-15T17:09:19Z mankaev quit
2020-07-15T17:09:28Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:09:47Z _death: what happens if you continue?
2020-07-15T17:10:13Z theosvoitha: restarts (invokable by number or by possibly-abbreviated name):
2020-07-15T17:10:14Z theosvoitha:   0: [CONTINUE ] Return from the exception handler
2020-07-15T17:10:14Z theosvoitha:   1: [USE-VALUE] Try a port other than 1
2020-07-15T17:10:14Z theosvoitha:   2: [ABORT    ] Exit debugger, returning to top level.
2020-07-15T17:10:26Z theosvoitha: i try 1
2020-07-15T17:10:35Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T17:10:54Z theosvoitha: but it returns back to the same screen
2020-07-15T17:11:15Z _death: oh.. yes, it should use a different port..
2020-07-15T17:11:55Z theosvoitha: Enter port (defaults to 2):
2020-07-15T17:11:59Z theosvoitha: which port should i enter
2020-07-15T17:12:47Z _death: say 6000
2020-07-15T17:13:10Z theosvoitha: same thing
2020-07-15T17:13:16Z theosvoitha: same screen appears
2020-07-15T17:13:41Z theosvoitha: debugger invoked on a SB-WIN32:EXCEPTION in thread
2020-07-15T17:13:41Z theosvoitha: #<THREAD "main thread" RUNNING {10010C0523}>:
2020-07-15T17:13:41Z theosvoitha:   An exception occurred in context #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X0022CEE0): #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X0022DD80). (Exception code: 1722)
2020-07-15T17:13:41Z theosvoitha:  
2020-07-15T17:13:41Z theosvoitha: Type HELP for debugger help, or (SB-EXT:EXIT) to exit from SBCL.
2020-07-15T17:13:41Z theosvoitha:  
2020-07-15T17:13:41Z theosvoitha: restarts (invokable by number or by possibly-abbreviated name):
2020-07-15T17:13:42Z theosvoitha:   0: [CONTINUE ] Return from the exception handler
2020-07-15T17:13:43Z theosvoitha:   1: [USE-VALUE] Try a port other than 6000
2020-07-15T17:13:43Z theosvoitha:   2: [ABORT    ] Exit debugger, returning to top level.
2020-07-15T17:13:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T17:14:21Z phoe: Windows throws up for whatever reason
2020-07-15T17:14:29Z phoe: that restart is IMO a false flag
2020-07-15T17:14:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:15:10Z _death: you can type :backtrace and paste the result (in a site like https://plaster.tymoon.eu/ )
2020-07-15T17:15:22Z theosvoitha: okay thanks a lot all guys. it was really a warm welcome here. I will keep idling here. I guess i asked too simple questions. next time i will ask in #clschool
2020-07-15T17:15:42Z phoe: theosvoitha: that isn't simple
2020-07-15T17:15:51Z phoe: I hoped that Portacle worked well on Windows
2020-07-15T17:16:05Z phoe: and still Windows finds its way to raise weird exceptions that I never would expect
2020-07-15T17:16:24Z theosvoitha: phoe: is there any way to use it elsewhere
2020-07-15T17:16:42Z phoe: theosvoitha: I'm about to suggest installing linux
2020-07-15T17:17:02Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:17:14Z theosvoitha: i have some job software which i can't run in windows
2020-07-15T17:17:23Z theosvoitha: *can't run in linux
2020-07-15T17:17:34Z _death: theosvoitha: it looks like emacs and sbcl work.. you just get an error for some reason which is yet to be determined
2020-07-15T17:18:05Z theosvoitha: _death: do i really need to bother about this error. can't i go further and learn at least the basics and use emacs
2020-07-15T17:19:24Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:19:29Z theosvoitha: afterall i can't go deep very soon
2020-07-15T17:19:52Z madage quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T17:20:02Z _death: theosvoitha: well, you can just run sbcl and use that.. and you can run it from a shell within emacs.. but to get a good experience you need slime (which connects the two and provides the typical development environment) to work
2020-07-15T17:21:05Z theosvoitha: _death: okay let me learn whatever i have. who knows it may get fixed in future.
2020-07-15T17:21:28Z _death: theosvoitha: if you follow my previous instruction (type :backtrace and paste the result) you may get further help there
2020-07-15T17:21:34Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T17:22:11Z _death: theosvoitha: if you just want to play with emacs lisp, you can also type M-x ielm RET (that's alt x, ielm, enter) to get an elisp toplevel
2020-07-15T17:23:30Z theosvoitha: _death: I guess i will attempt tomorrow. its too late here. i have saved all instructions.
2020-07-15T17:23:36Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-15T17:25:32Z _death: theosvoitha: also you may ask on #shirakumo (where the author of Portacle dwells) about it or post a Portacle issue.. though the answer may be the same (give a backtrace)
2020-07-15T17:26:03Z phoe: first get a backtrace
2020-07-15T17:26:07Z phoe: and then post an issue on the github repo
2020-07-15T17:26:12Z phoe: stuff the backtrace in there.
2020-07-15T17:26:13Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:26:19Z leo_song_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:26:21Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T17:26:25Z theosvoitha: I will try a backtrace tomorrow and will share backtrace.
2020-07-15T17:26:50Z theosvoitha: Better not attempt at #shirakumo
2020-07-15T17:27:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:27:46Z leo_song quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T17:28:13Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:29:03Z theosvoitha: thanks everyone for this warm welcome. thanks phoe _death beach and all.
2020-07-15T17:30:04Z theosvoitha is now known as theosvoitha_offl
2020-07-15T17:30:35Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T17:31:28Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:31:29Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-15T17:37:07Z ckonstanski joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:40:14Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T17:41:06Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:42:49Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T17:43:20Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T17:56:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T17:56:22Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:01:04Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T18:03:53Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:07:15Z roze quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-15T18:09:35Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:09:35Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-15T18:09:35Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:12:25Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-15T18:13:28Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:13:35Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:15:14Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T18:16:25Z johnjay quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T18:18:40Z johnjay joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:19:44Z puchacz joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:20:02Z puchacz: hi, has anybody used foil to communicate with Java?
2020-07-15T18:20:34Z puchacz: 2005 not good, author: Rich Hickey: good.
2020-07-15T18:21:07Z puchacz: I wonder if it is usable in long running servers, i.e. no memory leaks, knows when to drop objects from caches etc.
2020-07-15T18:23:59Z jhei left #lisp
2020-07-15T18:24:22Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-15T18:25:01Z gravicappa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-15T18:27:23Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T18:34:11Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:36:21Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:37:37Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T18:37:55Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T18:38:13Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:38:15Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-15T18:40:10Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T18:40:50Z phoe: okay, I think the HN discussion about the book is now done; the article fell off the frontpage
2020-07-15T18:41:13Z phoe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23843525 if anyone'd like to have a read, I'll run off and take a walk now
2020-07-15T18:42:00Z xristos: puchacz: ABCL seems like a better bet
2020-07-15T18:44:01Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T18:44:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:54:07Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-15T18:56:55Z xkapastel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-15T19:02:01Z Grauwolf quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
2020-07-15T19:02:39Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:03:38Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:03:38Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-15T19:03:38Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:04:02Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T19:05:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:08:42Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:12:22Z Grauwolf joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:12:22Z Grauwolf quit (Changing host)
2020-07-15T19:12:22Z Grauwolf joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:16:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T19:17:22Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:25:32Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T19:25:50Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:26:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T19:26:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:35:15Z XachX: phoe: cheers for a readable thread despite predicable “objections”
2020-07-15T19:39:39Z puchacz: xristos: but I don't want to have the whole application in ABCL
2020-07-15T19:40:26Z puchacz: I have the application in SBCL
2020-07-15T19:40:53Z puchacz: or you mean just have small stub with ABCL and say hunchentoot on Java side?
2020-07-15T19:43:00Z _death: some months ago I played an hour or two with py4j, writing some lisp to play the part of py.. that approach didn't seem too time-consuming, though I had no use for it
2020-07-15T19:44:16Z puchacz: death: googling py4j, related to my Java question?
2020-07-15T19:45:14Z _death: puchacz: yes.. it allows limited interoperation.. I think I played with it because spark used it
2020-07-15T19:46:01Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T19:46:30Z puchacz: I know how to access java from ABCL and I did a lot of it
2020-07-15T19:46:56Z puchacz: so writing hunchentoot handler in ABCL on Java side to allow SBCL application to call into would work.
2020-07-15T19:47:03Z puchacz: but maybe it is an overkill
2020-07-15T19:47:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:47:45Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:48:10Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:51:32Z _death: here's what I wrote then https://gist.github.com/death/dedb220e62f6e35c2c0902c128d01015
2020-07-15T19:52:32Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:52:38Z puchacz: thanks, so I would have to run Java part of py4j.
2020-07-15T19:52:44Z puchacz: ok :)
2020-07-15T19:52:54Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T19:54:19Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-15T19:55:39Z _death: feel free to create a complete library out of that hack ;)
2020-07-15T19:56:07Z puchacz: cheers :)
2020-07-15T19:58:32Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T19:59:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:08:53Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:12:18Z mangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T20:12:36Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:14:15Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:15:52Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:20:38Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T20:23:21Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-15T20:24:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:25:06Z zooey_ is now known as zooey
2020-07-15T20:32:14Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T20:33:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:39:07Z dra_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:39:48Z dra_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T20:39:58Z dra joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:41:44Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T20:42:36Z puchacz: death, if you are still here, Foil looks usable - if you ever need it
2020-07-15T20:42:45Z puchacz: I have not started it yet, just staring at Java code
2020-07-15T20:43:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:47:58Z dra: Hi. I'm using Emacs + SLIME + Paredit. When editing Lisp files DEL/<backspace> is bound to paredit-backward-delete. In the REPL however it's bound to backward-delete-char-untabify. This breaks paren balancing. Here's the relevant part of my SLIME config: https://paste.debian.net/1156557/
2020-07-15T20:48:02Z dra: Any ideas?
2020-07-15T20:51:19Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T20:51:46Z phoe: XachX: I know right
2020-07-15T20:51:59Z phoe: I actually found the objections to be surprisingly pleasant
2020-07-15T20:52:07Z puchacz: phoe: your book is still not available, is it?
2020-07-15T20:52:12Z puchacz: as ebook
2020-07-15T20:52:15Z phoe: I got several bugfix ideas for the book and - Apress will kill me - an idea for a new chapter
2020-07-15T20:52:20Z phoe: puchacz: yes, it only went to production now.
2020-07-15T20:52:20Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:52:27Z puchacz: ok, tks
2020-07-15T20:53:34Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T20:54:47Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T20:54:58Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T20:55:47Z dra: phoe: I read about your book on Hacker News. Looking forward to it!
2020-07-15T20:55:55Z phoe: dra: <3
2020-07-15T20:56:35Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T20:57:19Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T20:57:34Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T20:58:44Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:02:04Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T21:02:27Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-15T21:02:40Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:02:51Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:03:34Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:04:11Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T21:04:22Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T21:05:01Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T21:05:02Z luna_is_here_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:06:25Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-15T21:10:59Z ahungry quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-15T21:14:15Z gjulio quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T21:14:19Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:14:19Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-15T21:14:20Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:14:32Z loli quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-15T21:16:25Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T21:16:42Z ayuce` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:16:47Z ayuce` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T21:17:16Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:18:24Z ayuce quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-15T21:21:05Z puchacz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T21:22:21Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:22:24Z liberliver quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T21:23:17Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:31:17Z bitmapper quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T21:32:01Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:32:16Z mankaev quit
2020-07-15T21:32:24Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:32:51Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-15T21:33:28Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-15T21:35:53Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-15T21:38:49Z dra quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-15T21:44:02Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T21:55:16Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T21:55:56Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T22:05:34Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T22:05:44Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:11:32Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T22:17:06Z jurov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T22:17:21Z jurov joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:22:52Z narendraj9 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T22:24:30Z dominic34 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T22:24:43Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:25:16Z narendraj9 joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:26:08Z devrtz quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-07-15T22:26:26Z ym quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T22:27:15Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:28:44Z bsd4me quit (Quit: The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese)
2020-07-15T22:30:19Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:35:30Z luna_is_here_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T22:37:34Z dra joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:38:28Z hiroaki quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T22:39:41Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:41:02Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:45:31Z Blukunfando quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-15T22:48:20Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T22:48:50Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:48:53Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:49:31Z devrtz joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:49:34Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T22:50:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T22:51:12Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T22:51:41Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-15T22:57:30Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:09:04Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:10:39Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:11:30Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-15T23:12:13Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-15T23:12:46Z dra quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-15T23:14:11Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T23:14:54Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-15T23:15:54Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-15T23:17:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:17:45Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T23:17:48Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-15T23:19:36Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-15T23:22:09Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:23:15Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T23:27:04Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T23:27:40Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:32:44Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T23:32:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:42:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T23:44:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:46:44Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-15T23:46:59Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:47:11Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-15T23:48:16Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:52:24Z gioyik quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T23:56:13Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-15T23:56:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-15T23:56:33Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T00:02:36Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T00:06:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T00:06:13Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T00:07:52Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T00:10:32Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T00:17:14Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T00:22:23Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T00:22:25Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-16T00:25:07Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-16T00:42:42Z Xach: I am about to get a retired "enterprise" server that's about 5 years old, but it's got gobs of ram and disk and some fast "enterprise" CPUs. I'm going to see if Quicklisp builds improve at all with it.
2020-07-16T00:43:15Z Xach: Someone in my tiny town improbably has it for sale for cheap enough to give it a try.
2020-07-16T00:43:33Z Bike: nice.
2020-07-16T00:43:35Z Oladon: Xach: Nice! :)
2020-07-16T00:47:03Z Xach: hmm, maybe it's older than that. ad says "2 x 2.60Ghz E5-2670".
2020-07-16T00:47:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-16T00:56:33Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-16T01:07:55Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T01:11:18Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T01:12:32Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T01:15:22Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-16T01:18:12Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T01:34:04Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-16T01:40:25Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T01:40:38Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T01:41:37Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T01:43:55Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T01:52:24Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-16T01:57:51Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-16T02:05:49Z jprajzne quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T02:11:50Z LdBeth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T02:12:14Z LdBeth quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-16T02:13:06Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-16T02:13:21Z ldb: good morning
2020-07-16T02:14:40Z ldb is now known as LdBeth
2020-07-16T02:15:01Z Archenoth quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T02:15:56Z eta quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T02:19:08Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T02:21:27Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-16T02:21:40Z eta joined #lisp
2020-07-16T02:26:27Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-16T02:28:58Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-16T02:30:46Z bsd4me quit (Quit: On the other hand, you have different fingers.)
2020-07-16T02:40:11Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-16T02:42:34Z LdBeth quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-16T02:53:01Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-16T02:53:28Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-16T02:53:28Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-16T02:53:28Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-16T03:00:35Z galepotts joined #lisp
2020-07-16T03:01:31Z karswell joined #lisp
2020-07-16T03:03:22Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T03:03:52Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-16T03:04:22Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-16T03:06:06Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-16T03:09:54Z galepotts left #lisp
2020-07-16T03:29:37Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-16T03:39:45Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-16T03:41:01Z aeth: phoe: you were inquiring about that file from my util library, right? Oh, wow, it has already been a week. Oops. https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp?around=1594208608#1594208608
2020-07-16T03:41:59Z aeth: I've been reorganizing and cleaning up bits and pieces, and I'll probably write tests before deciding what to spin off. So I guess "this week" was too optimistic.
2020-07-16T03:45:39Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-16T03:58:21Z gko``` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T04:00:15Z gko joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:00:24Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:05:14Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T04:07:43Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T04:09:27Z beach: phoe: I read the exchange.  It is typical for people to object, and then, even though they are finally impressed by what you tell them, they keep quiet.  The overall impression, then, is that almost everybody is unconvinced, which is often depressing.  But that typically isn't the case, and from reading between the lines, I think that you converted a few.
2020-07-16T04:09:35Z beach: phoe: So, congratulations again!
2020-07-16T04:12:26Z matijja quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T04:14:03Z matijja joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:16:18Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-16T04:17:18Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T04:19:21Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:20:18Z marusich joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:22:37Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:23:38Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:28:07Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T04:28:56Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:29:34Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:35:21Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:38:00Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T04:39:54Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T04:44:14Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T04:51:18Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T04:57:15Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T04:58:02Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-16T04:59:43Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:02:06Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:03:50Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:07:50Z hipete joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:08:03Z hipete left #lisp
2020-07-16T05:08:27Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:09:11Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-16T05:10:00Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T05:10:40Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:15:56Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:16:03Z theosvoitha_offl is now known as theosvoitha
2020-07-16T05:21:20Z hlisp joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:23:35Z hlisp quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-16T05:30:03Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T05:32:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:33:47Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T05:35:30Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:38:39Z alandipert quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-07-16T05:38:41Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:39:08Z alandipert joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:39:08Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-16T05:39:57Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:43:03Z sympt__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T05:45:07Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:45:34Z yonkunas quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-16T05:46:52Z phoe: beach: I'm very satisfied with that exchange and, based on that text, don't think that almost everyone is unconvinced. If anything, the condition system is simply unknown to many of them and they can't imagine use cases for tools that are foreign to them.
2020-07-16T05:47:29Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:47:32Z phoe: My book has sparked some discussion, though, and that's the important part. And I got a lot of book fixes from these comments even though the book hasn't been released yet. :D
2020-07-16T05:48:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:51:40Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:55:40Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-16T05:57:32Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-16T06:01:31Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T06:04:42Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T06:05:17Z beach: phoe: Excellent!
2020-07-16T06:05:25Z sveit: when using the series library, sometimes functions cannot be optimized. that's fine, but the macro's warnings cause SBCL to decide the whole file compile failed, when in reality all that happened was that series was unable to optimize itself away, but the function still produces correct answers. is there a way to get around this?
2020-07-16T06:06:19Z beach: sveit: It may be ASDF that converts a warning to a compilation failure.
2020-07-16T06:06:36Z beach: sveit: There is an ASDF setting to fix that, but I forget the details.
2020-07-16T06:08:15Z sveit: beach: i don't think it's ASDF, since this error happens when I just directly compile the file
2020-07-16T06:08:23Z beach: Hmm, OK.
2020-07-16T06:08:27Z marusich quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-16T06:08:29Z sveit: (C-c C-k in Emacs)
2020-07-16T06:08:43Z phoe: sveit: it's slime
2020-07-16T06:08:55Z LdBeth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:08:58Z phoe: it will say "compilation failed" where in reality it didn't fail
2020-07-16T06:09:08Z LdBeth quit (Changing host)
2020-07-16T06:09:08Z LdBeth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:09:20Z phoe: mfiano encountered this just two or three days ago I think
2020-07-16T06:09:22Z sveit: phoe: i think it really does, since none of the other functions from that package exist.
2020-07-16T06:09:36Z phoe: oh, hm
2020-07-16T06:09:37Z sveit: it /is/ true that if you individually compile the functions, the warning is fake
2020-07-16T06:09:49Z sveit: or rather the warning is really, but the compile doesn't actually faile
2020-07-16T06:09:50Z phoe: do you hit Y or N after compiling the file?
2020-07-16T06:09:57Z phoe: when it asks if you want to load the FASL file
2020-07-16T06:10:07Z sveit: it doesn't even ask
2020-07-16T06:10:15Z phoe: weird!
2020-07-16T06:10:16Z sveit: not sure if it matters, but i am using sly
2020-07-16T06:10:22Z phoe: could you provide a test case?
2020-07-16T06:10:29Z phoe: I don't know about sly but I can check it on slime
2020-07-16T06:11:38Z sveit: (defun silly-length (s) (series:collect-length s))
2020-07-16T06:11:39Z sveit: (defun other-function (x) (+ 7 x))
2020-07-16T06:11:46Z sveit: just any package containing those two functions
2020-07-16T06:11:52Z sveit: then visit the file, C-c C-k
2020-07-16T06:11:59Z sveit: in a clean session
2020-07-16T06:12:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T06:12:05Z LdBeth: let me have a try
2020-07-16T06:12:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:12:48Z phoe: https://i.imgur.com/CXFdkJW.png
2020-07-16T06:12:55Z phoe: the top right buffer is the code
2020-07-16T06:13:03Z phoe: the bottom buffer is the warning
2020-07-16T06:13:18Z phoe: the *very* bottom is where slime asks if I nonetheless want to load the FASL file
2020-07-16T06:13:54Z phoe: I hit Y, and the functions are loaded
2020-07-16T06:13:58Z sveit: phoe: i see, it's not appearing for me, but maybe that is sly or Windows. not a huge deal since in this case i can fix it by suppressing the warnings.
2020-07-16T06:14:02Z phoe: which is the scenario that I described
2020-07-16T06:14:08Z phoe: I'd check if sly behaves the same way
2020-07-16T06:15:39Z sveit: thanks for the quick checks! a related question for people familiar with series: the most common error i get is "Non-series to series data flow from: series-var" where series-var is treated as a series in the entire expression. is there some declaration/way to tell the compiler that some series-var is a series?
2020-07-16T06:15:50Z sveit: (declare (type series:series series-var)) doesn't work
2020-07-16T06:16:09Z LdBeth: seems sly converts warnings to failures
2020-07-16T06:16:09Z LdBeth: i get exact same message pops up as phoe's
2020-07-16T06:16:09Z LdBeth: although I use sly
2020-07-16T06:17:11Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:17:29Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T06:18:12Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:20:07Z phoe: compile-time warnings, yes
2020-07-16T06:20:07Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T06:20:54Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T06:22:16Z LdBeth_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:22:18Z LdBeth quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T06:23:19Z LdBeth_: series cannot rely on type declarations, since it is not enforced by CL
2020-07-16T06:24:17Z sveit: LdBeth_: thanks, so is there a way to convince series that a variable will be a series?
2020-07-16T06:25:35Z LdBeth_: the only way is having the operation on the series determined at compile time
2020-07-16T06:26:35Z LdBeth_: i.e you cannot expect to pass a series operation as an argument on run time
2020-07-16T06:27:42Z sveit: LdBeth_: but what if i am ok with "failure"? i.e. i am ok with an error if the argument to "(defun silly-length (s) (series:collect-length s))" is not a series, but i would like to at least get rid of the warnings by promising that s must be a series
2020-07-16T06:28:02Z sveit: in this case the operation on the series is indeed determined at compile time, right
2020-07-16T06:28:03Z sveit: ?
2020-07-16T06:28:56Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-16T06:32:06Z LdBeth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:32:06Z LdBeth quit (Changing host)
2020-07-16T06:32:06Z LdBeth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:32:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:32:54Z LdBeth_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T06:33:38Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:34:20Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:35:39Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-16T06:36:29Z LdBeth: sveit: i see, it because the series implementation requires symbols from the :series package to do data flow analysis
2020-07-16T06:38:21Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-16T06:41:42Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T06:43:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-16T06:43:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:47:00Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-16T06:47:43Z LdBeth: sveit: actually, besides import the :series package, (declare (optimizable-series-function 1)) is requred to be put into `silly-length' to have it successfully accpeted by optimizer
2020-07-16T06:49:12Z LdBeth: and it's use is explained in CLtL2
2020-07-16T06:54:55Z LdBeth quit (Quit: going out side)
2020-07-16T06:59:23Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T07:03:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T07:04:03Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:04:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:11:55Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T07:12:53Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:13:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:19:04Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:24:36Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:30:15Z bilegeek joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:33:03Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:35:28Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T07:38:30Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T07:39:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:48:32Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:50:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T07:51:26Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-16T07:52:38Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T07:53:59Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:58:20Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T07:59:31Z vegai: debugging a python module whose restart takes about a minute
2020-07-16T07:59:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T07:59:40Z vegai: great fun
2020-07-16T08:03:22Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:03:42Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T08:04:54Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:07:51Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:08:02Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T08:09:14Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:10:21Z vegai: good'ol xkcd 303
2020-07-16T08:10:28Z vegai: in a dynamic language, heh
2020-07-16T08:14:36Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-16T08:16:11Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T08:17:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:21:14Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T08:22:24Z datajerk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T08:26:53Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:30:04Z Archenoth quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T08:30:14Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-16T08:30:28Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:31:50Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T08:33:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:35:44Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:42:24Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T08:42:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:50:51Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T08:52:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-16T08:59:24Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T08:59:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:01:53Z gioyik quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-16T09:10:23Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:15:40Z In0perable quit (Quit: All your buffer are belong to us!)
2020-07-16T09:18:08Z mangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T09:18:41Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:22:52Z Inoperable joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:23:25Z sauvin_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:25:25Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-16T09:26:30Z sauvin_ is now known as Sauvin
2020-07-16T09:27:40Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:35:04Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:39:31Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T09:39:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:39:55Z gioyik quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T09:40:11Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T09:47:55Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:49:19Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:51:28Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T09:51:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:52:11Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T09:52:24Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:53:48Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-16T09:54:34Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T10:00:45Z xsperry joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:02:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T10:03:38Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:04:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:08:41Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T10:08:50Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:09:47Z Lord_of_Life quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T10:11:57Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:15:42Z Necktwi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T10:15:42Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:16:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T10:19:48Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T10:28:28Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T10:30:50Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:31:37Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:32:28Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T10:33:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:39:07Z flip214: I've got an sbcl image that starts up a hunchentoot server (including -quux) but hangs - no HTTP content served, Ctrl-C or kill doesn't work, I have to do kill -9.
2020-07-16T10:39:22Z flip214: when I (TRACE ..) a few functions, it works normally.
2020-07-16T10:39:46Z flip214: any ideas how to debug that? No swank server possible.
2020-07-16T10:40:20Z flip214: other images (different HTTP requests served, different business logic) with the same infrastructure works normally.
2020-07-16T10:40:27Z flip214: rebuilding this image doesn't help.
2020-07-16T10:44:22Z RukiSama_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T10:44:32Z RukiSama joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:48:11Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T10:48:20Z phoe: Ctrl+C doesn't spawn some sort of SBCL debugger?
2020-07-16T10:48:39Z phoe: this would mean that it's in sb-sys:without-interrupts
2020-07-16T10:48:58Z phoe: and that would need attaching an external debugger to figure out what's going on.
2020-07-16T10:49:09Z phoe: oh wait, it works normally when you trace, but hangs if you don't trace them?
2020-07-16T10:50:21Z flip214: thanks, solved
2020-07-16T10:50:32Z phoe: huh! how? what was the issue?
2020-07-16T10:50:35Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T10:50:57Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:51:02Z flip214: SIGUSR2 was bound by a thread for toggling debug logs on/off, but that's used by sbcl internally
2020-07-16T10:51:07Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:51:12Z phoe: ha! I see
2020-07-16T10:51:29Z flip214: (bad choice, IMO - SIGUSR1 and USR2 are obvious choices for such application things)
2020-07-16T10:51:44Z flip214: why it did work when I TRACEd a few functions I can't say
2020-07-16T10:52:03Z phoe: must be sb-int::%*magic*
2020-07-16T10:53:10Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-16T10:53:25Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T10:53:37Z farooqkz__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T10:54:02Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:54:15Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T10:55:07Z farooqkz__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T10:59:35Z gioyik quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-16T11:05:14Z bilegeek quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-16T11:05:55Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:09:45Z jonatack quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T11:15:15Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:16:44Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:30:39Z cantstanya quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2020-07-16T11:30:39Z madage quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2020-07-16T11:30:39Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T11:30:39Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T11:30:39Z nirved quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T11:31:26Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:31:49Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:32:38Z cantstanya joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:32:58Z zooey joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:34:14Z karayan joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:35:10Z flazh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T11:44:49Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:46:26Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:48:10Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:49:52Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-16T11:51:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:51:45Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-16T11:59:42Z libertyprime quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T12:00:08Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-16T12:01:39Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T12:02:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T12:02:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:02:41Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:04:57Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:07:47Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:08:26Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-16T12:08:26Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2020-07-16T12:15:54Z aaaaaa quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-16T12:16:37Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:20:55Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-16T12:27:01Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T12:28:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:29:22Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T12:35:47Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:39:24Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:46:56Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:47:03Z range joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:47:52Z range quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-16T12:50:21Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-16T12:52:01Z cranes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-16T12:52:23Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:52:25Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:52:29Z range joined #lisp
2020-07-16T12:52:34Z range quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T12:52:34Z cranes quit (K-Lined)
2020-07-16T12:56:21Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:05:35Z beach` joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:06:10Z beach quit (Disconnected by services)
2020-07-16T13:06:14Z beach` is now known as beach
2020-07-16T13:09:23Z Posterdati quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T13:10:03Z jebes joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:11:53Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:14:52Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:16:30Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:19:52Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-16T13:20:52Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-16T13:22:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T13:22:18Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:22:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:25:57Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-16T13:31:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:36:55Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T13:39:03Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:41:28Z yonkunas joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:42:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T13:42:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:43:14Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:44:05Z scymtym: Xach: do you know whether there is an implementation of CFF/PostScript Type 1 fonts for CL?
2020-07-16T13:44:58Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T13:45:20Z Ankhers quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.0 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-16T13:45:34Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:45:51Z Ankhers joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:50:26Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T13:51:24Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T13:53:20Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:53:44Z phoe: Online Lisp Meeting #5 announced: https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/hsa0m2/
2020-07-16T13:56:07Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-16T13:56:09Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:56:11Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T13:56:36Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:56:47Z beach: So it's on Wednesday?
2020-07-16T13:56:57Z phoe: This time, yes - Wednesday
2020-07-16T13:57:02Z jebes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T13:57:05Z beach: OK.
2020-07-16T13:57:08Z beach: No problem for me.
2020-07-16T13:57:12Z phoe: whew
2020-07-16T13:57:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:57:27Z phoe: sorry about that - I have been way too distracted with book stuff + dayjob stuff
2020-07-16T13:57:36Z beach: I fully understand.
2020-07-16T13:57:49Z beach: Does that mean I have a day or two more to finish the presentation and record it?
2020-07-16T13:57:56Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T13:58:00Z beach: Not that I absolutely need that, but it wouldn't hurt.
2020-07-16T13:58:02Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T13:59:18Z beach: I guess I'll still try to finish it tomorrow, but maybe in the afternoon instead of in the morning.
2020-07-16T13:59:53Z phoe: beach: yes, sure! as long as I get it on Tuesday or something
2020-07-16T14:00:03Z beach: Excellent, thanks!
2020-07-16T14:10:35Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:14:02Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:14:08Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T14:19:06Z jebes joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:20:12Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:21:55Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:22:11Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T14:23:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:24:50Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:26:59Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:28:57Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T14:29:16Z frgo_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T14:29:26Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:31:42Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-16T14:32:28Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:33:30Z rgherdt_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:38:56Z theosvoitha: Hello When i try to first run Portacle in Windows 7, i encounter following error: https://bpa.st/2DPQ
2020-07-16T14:39:45Z phoe: theosvoitha: try typing BACKTRACE in there and hitting Enter
2020-07-16T14:39:49Z phoe: that should provide us with more information
2020-07-16T14:39:56Z jasom: that looks bad
2020-07-16T14:41:40Z theosvoitha: There isn't any space to type my command. this is being shown there:  "Polling "C:/users/lenovo/appdata/temp/slimne.6408 ... 1132 (Abort with 'M-x slime-abort-connection)
2020-07-16T14:41:59Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:42:13Z phoe: there should be - you should be able to type in the inferior lisp buffer
2020-07-16T14:42:21Z phoe: click on that buffer and type stuff in
2020-07-16T14:42:33Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T14:43:06Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:43:23Z jasom: phoe: there's multiple warnings inside swank early on, that can't be normal, right?
2020-07-16T14:44:03Z phoe: jasom: they seem OK enough for me, nothing too suspicious.
2020-07-16T14:44:30Z theosvoitha: in 'inferior-lisp' buffer, this is being going on continuously
2020-07-16T14:44:34Z theosvoitha: Polling "C:/users/lenovo/appdata/temp/slimne.6408 ... 1132 (Abort with 'M-x slime-abort-connection)
2020-07-16T14:44:53Z theosvoitha: and the counting keeps increasing every second and am not able to type there
2020-07-16T14:44:54Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T14:44:56Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T14:46:27Z theosvoitha: I type 'b' alphabet of "backstrace". Instantly it says 'b' is undefined and replaces that line again with Polling "C:/users/lenovo/appdata/temp/slimne.6408 ... 1132 (Abort with 'M-x slime-abort-connection)
2020-07-16T14:46:35Z jasom: theosvoitha: do you have a firewall of some sort running?
2020-07-16T14:46:51Z phoe: huh
2020-07-16T14:46:52Z theosvoitha: jasom: yes. Kaspersky.
2020-07-16T14:46:57Z phoe: weird stuff
2020-07-16T14:47:41Z jasom: it might be preventing slime from opening a socket for communication?
2020-07-16T14:47:57Z theosvoitha: let me disable it and try.
2020-07-16T14:52:40Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:53:22Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:55:56Z Blukunfando quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:56Z flazh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:56Z vornth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:56Z gravicappa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:56Z Khisanth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:56Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:56Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z X-Scale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z thecoffemaker quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z zaquest quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z penguwin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z oldtopman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z kbtr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z cdegroot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z kingcons quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:55:57Z wigust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T14:56:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T14:57:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:20Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z gko joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z thecoffemaker joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z ski joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z penguwin joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z oldtopman joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z kingcons joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z kbtr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z cdegroot joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z mood joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:25Z wigust joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:57:40Z vornth quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-16T14:58:04Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T14:58:04Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T14:58:06Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:58:25Z hhdave joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:58:32Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:59:05Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T14:59:34Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T14:59:44Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T14:59:53Z Xach: scymtym: i don't know of one
2020-07-16T15:00:11Z Xach: scymtym: i started working on a postscript interpreter, hoping to maybe support them, but it has fallen by the wayside
2020-07-16T15:01:40Z xsperry quit (Quit: http://www.okay.uz/ (Session timeout))
2020-07-16T15:02:39Z jebes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T15:05:24Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:06:02Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T15:06:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:07:33Z beach: And such a thing would be fantastic for music fonts, because the (to my knowledge) only free font for music that conforms to the new standard is in that format.
2020-07-16T15:08:10Z beach: So that font is going to be a must for Clovetree.
2020-07-16T15:10:19Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T15:10:33Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:10:39Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:11:27Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:14:25Z jebes joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:15:47Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T15:17:45Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:21:29Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:21:47Z Xach: PostScript is so nice and regular and simple
2020-07-16T15:21:57Z Xach: Maybe some student could be tricked into doing it
2020-07-16T15:23:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T15:24:00Z jasom: theosvoitha: any luck?
2020-07-16T15:24:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:26:20Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T15:26:47Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:27:05Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-16T15:27:20Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:28:46Z mfiano: Hello!
2020-07-16T15:29:21Z theosvoitha: jasom: No. I disabled Firewall completely, unzipped Portacle again and attempted but same issue.
2020-07-16T15:29:30Z mfiano: Would anyone good at making sense out of noisy C++ help me port to Lisp a very simple container data structure? The lightning talk that presents it is very lacking in details, and the code is very painful for me to read. It was recommended to me to ask here after failing for two days. :)
2020-07-16T15:29:36Z theosvoitha: shall i try the developer channel
2020-07-16T15:29:47Z jasom: theosvoitha: sure, or you can file an issue on github.
2020-07-16T15:29:57Z jasom: I don't have a windows VM handy
2020-07-16T15:30:05Z jasom: s/windows/windows 7/
2020-07-16T15:30:09Z theosvoitha: jasom: Okay. Thanks
2020-07-16T15:31:04Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T15:33:40Z nirved: theosvoitha: if nothing else helps you might try an older release of portacle, sbcl 2.0 might not play well with windows 7. https://github.com/portacle/portacle/releases/
2020-07-16T15:35:04Z beach: Xach: Not any of mine.
2020-07-16T15:35:35Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:37:03Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:37:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T15:38:18Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:41:19Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-16T15:41:31Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:42:46Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:45:57Z karayan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T15:48:24Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-16T15:48:30Z ebrasca quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T15:48:45Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:48:52Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:48:52Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T15:48:57Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:50:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T15:51:24Z scymtym: beach: Xach: thank you. so i'm probably not wasting my time exploring this a bit
2020-07-16T15:51:52Z beach: Not at all.  On the contrary.
2020-07-16T15:52:20Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T16:01:02Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T16:02:22Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:03:34Z theosvoitha is now known as jonathansc
2020-07-16T16:04:57Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T16:05:16Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-16T16:06:26Z rgherdt_ is now known as rgherdt
2020-07-16T16:12:14Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:12:50Z jonathansc: Few others have reported same problem:
2020-07-16T16:12:52Z jonathansc: https://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/mailman/sbcl-help/thread/84r3zoet5v.fsf%40gmail.com/#msg32803015
2020-07-16T16:12:53Z jonathansc: https://www.coder.work/article/2071695
2020-07-16T16:16:42Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T16:16:45Z jonathansc is now known as theosvoitha
2020-07-16T16:16:54Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T16:18:00Z theosvoitha: Am trying to read "Practical Common Lisp"
2020-07-16T16:18:20Z theosvoitha: please suggest CL Implementation to follow it for windows.
2020-07-16T16:20:48Z theosvoitha: Book seem to suggest 'Lisp in a box' but it seems pretty old software
2020-07-16T16:22:32Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T16:23:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:23:07Z aeth: theosvoitha: The most popular equivalent these days is probably portacle: https://portacle.github.io/
2020-07-16T16:23:08Z tychoish: I think SBCL works on windows.
2020-07-16T16:23:17Z tychoish: but I don't actually windows
2020-07-16T16:23:38Z gaqwas: theosvoitha, I second Portacle
2020-07-16T16:23:38Z ebrasca quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T16:23:53Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:24:00Z clothespin_: i use sbcl on windows
2020-07-16T16:24:17Z aeth: tychoish: iirc, SBCL works on Windows but it gives a warning that some features might not work, but everything works... although that could have been removed years ago (which still would've been like 5+ years later than it should have been)
2020-07-16T16:24:54Z aeth: The download tends to be an older version (and it is, it's 2.0.0), but afaik you could use it to bootstrap the latest off of git. http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html
2020-07-16T16:25:06Z theosvoitha: aeth: thanks couldn't get Portacle working on windows
2020-07-16T16:25:15Z tychoish: portacle looks like it includes emacs+sbcl and all of the glue that you need. if you already have emacs, then getting the emacs bits are easy enough but seems a bit personal :)
2020-07-16T16:25:38Z aeth: An alternative is Roswell, which is kind of an alternative to the official installer for every implementation, but I don't think that it comes with Emacs. https://github.com/roswell/roswell
2020-07-16T16:26:05Z theosvoitha: clothespin_: thanks sbcl i will try.
2020-07-16T16:26:11Z theosvoitha: thanks aeth.
2020-07-16T16:26:12Z aeth: (Roswell is much harder to use than Portacle ime.)
2020-07-16T16:29:19Z rogersm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T16:29:22Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:29:27Z aeth: You could also try installing a Linux version under WSL, but then you miss out on the graphical/fun stuff like https://borodust.org/projects/trivial-gamekit/ or https://github.com/vydd/sketch/ and so on.
2020-07-16T16:30:06Z theosvoitha: aeth: i am using win 7. i guess i need VM instead.
2020-07-16T16:30:32Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T16:30:33Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-16T16:31:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:34:24Z eddof13 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:35:48Z jackdaniel: Xach: congrats
2020-07-16T16:35:59Z jackdaniel: (for the new dist release)
2020-07-16T16:40:32Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-16T16:41:06Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:42:33Z Xach: thanks
2020-07-16T16:42:51Z Xach: i have also taken delivery of a very heavy old rack mount server which i hope to use to build quicklisp more quickly
2020-07-16T16:42:51Z nirved: sbcl-2.0.0 with emacs-25.1.1 on windows 8.1 works for me; also working are clisp-2.49 and ccl-1.11.5 (64bit); all of them installed at paths without spaces - C:/sbcl C:/clisp C:/ccl C:/emacs
2020-07-16T16:43:50Z aeth: If you're new to Lisp, you probably don't want to use clisp unless you compile from source because it hasn't had a release in about a decade even though it's still under development.
2020-07-16T16:44:45Z aeth: Oh, we just missed the 10 year birthday of the current stable version of CLISP... It was released 2010-07-07. https://clisp.sourceforge.io/
2020-07-16T16:45:32Z theosvoitha: As Windows 7 is not fit for Portacle or others am trying Virtual Machine. Please suggest if "Gentoo" Linux has proper Common Lisps softwares ported.
2020-07-16T16:46:41Z tychoish: Xach: what's the build time now?
2020-07-16T16:47:55Z aeth: SBCL should be in the repositories of every major distro. The others will be hit-or-miss, but Fedora (which I use) also has ECL and CLISP. Iirc, though, Gentoo is a compile-everything (instead of shipping binary executables) distro, so using Gentoo to avoid compiling a Lisp implementation sounds self-defeating.
2020-07-16T16:49:56Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Quit: Пока, мир.)
2020-07-16T16:50:16Z nirved: theosvoitha: dev-lisp/sbcl is at 2.0.5 (testing), dev-lisp/clozurecl is at 1.11.5 (stable)
2020-07-16T16:50:36Z theosvoitha: thanks aeth. any *BSD you suggest? Am practising OpenBSD to help in some open source word.
2020-07-16T16:50:45Z aeth: Lisp implementations are sort of incompatible with this approach because they usually require a Lisp implementation. e.g. SBCL needs to be compiled from SBCL or a handful of approved implementations. This is called 'bootstrapping' an implementation. So bootstrapping the SBCL compiler from scratch (instead of another version of SBCL) usually requires compiling the CLISP interpreter first.
2020-07-16T16:51:06Z aeth: I think this "ports" approach is used by Gentoo and all BSDs.
2020-07-16T16:51:07Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:51:18Z aeth: (And a Mac OS X package manager)
2020-07-16T16:51:40Z theosvoitha: nirved: ok thanks
2020-07-16T16:52:20Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T16:52:24Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:52:25Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-16T16:52:57Z theosvoitha: okay thanks aeth. Fedora i will try to run in my VM.
2020-07-16T16:53:08Z nirved: theosvoitha: gentoo used to require hours of compilation and configuration, might be faster on modern machines
2020-07-16T16:53:21Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-16T16:54:04Z theosvoitha: nirved: but ask aeth suggest it is not fit for Lisp implementations
2020-07-16T16:54:43Z aeth: Well, it just will take much longer to compile.
2020-07-16T16:55:17Z theosvoitha: aeth: it actually does.
2020-07-16T16:55:36Z aeth: To compile SBCL on Fedora/etc., you download the SBCL from Fedora, which will be about 6-24 months out of date (ideally 6, since Fedora releases every 6 months)... but you probably don't need the absolute latest version.
2020-07-16T16:56:25Z aeth: Afaik (I would need to setup VirtualBox or something to test), Gentoo would require a full bootstrapping of SBCL, probably from CLISP.
2020-07-16T16:56:36Z theosvoitha: aeth: yes i don't need. as i said i just need to practice 'Practical Common Lisp" book examples
2020-07-16T16:57:27Z nirved: aeth: gentoo downloads a binary of a previous version, and uses it to compile the current one
2020-07-16T16:57:44Z aeth: nirved: ah, interesting, so they kind of have to sacrifice their philosophy there
2020-07-16T16:59:28Z nirved: aeth: well, it downloads the necessary compiler
2020-07-16T16:59:34Z aeth: nirved: thanks for the input, I've been reading their docs and I couldn't find any indication of that
2020-07-16T17:01:34Z nirved: aeth: it's in the ebuild, downloads the binary available from sf.net
2020-07-16T17:01:40Z lottaquestions: Hi all, if I wanted to trace a lambda, how would I do it? trace rejects raw lambdas as input with the error "xyz is not a function name, not tracing"
2020-07-16T17:04:29Z nirved: maybe wrap it in a lambda which prints something first
2020-07-16T17:04:42Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:04:42Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-16T17:06:04Z lottaquestions: @nirved: Would you show what you mean with  a simple example?
2020-07-16T17:06:19Z Josh_2: Hi
2020-07-16T17:07:57Z jebes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T17:09:49Z nirved: something like this: (lambda (&rest args) (format t "~&entering~%") (apply (lambda ...) args) (format t "~&exiting~%"))
2020-07-16T17:10:42Z lottaquestions: Thanks. let me try that
2020-07-16T17:11:16Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T17:11:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:11:36Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:17:23Z nirved: lottaquestions: oh, it should be (... (prog1 (apply (lambda ...) args) (format t "~&exiting~%")))
2020-07-16T17:21:07Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T17:22:25Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:22:57Z flazh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T17:23:43Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:24:36Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T17:26:15Z jasom: theosvoitha: FWIW I tried portacle on Win 10 and Win 8 and they both worked, but like I said I don't have a win 7 install.
2020-07-16T17:27:52Z DGASAU: minion: memo for seok: modern "traditional" DBMSes create indices for all columns with sufficient constraints upfront, plus they typically gather statistics on queries and adapt query execution plans accordingly. This alone typically makes SQL-based applications (in long-run use case) perform significantly better than those with manual in-memory joins and manual performance tweaks.
2020-07-16T17:27:52Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell seok when he/she/it next speaks.
2020-07-16T17:29:47Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:29:49Z DGASAU: minion: also, for the reference, there was a paper from Google that summarized all their story behind "no-SQL" movement, when after more than 5 years pushing for "no SQL for performance" they admitted that in reality this doesn't actually pay off.
2020-07-16T17:29:50Z minion: also, for the reference, there was a paper from Google that summarized all their story behind "no-SQL" movement, when after more than 5 years pushing for "no SQL for performance" they admitted that in reality this doesn't actually pay off: An error was encountered in lookup: Parse error:URI "https://www.cliki.net/also%2C%20for%20the%20reference%2C%20there%20was%20a%20paper%20from%20Google%20that%20summarized%20all%20their%20story%20behind%20\"no-SQL\"%20movem
2020-07-16T17:30:07Z DGASAU: minion: memo for seok: also, for the reference, there was a paper from Google that summarized all their story behind "no-SQL" movement, when after more than 5 years pushing for "no SQL for performance" they admitted that in reality this doesn't actually pay off.
2020-07-16T17:30:07Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell seok when he/she/it next speaks.
2020-07-16T17:31:07Z DGASAU: (Sorry, I don't have the reference anymore. I only remember being surprised of the fact itself when I read it about 2012-14.)
2020-07-16T17:31:18Z jasom: actually, I just rememberd a win7 pro box I have; latest portacle runs on it fine.
2020-07-16T17:32:37Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-16T17:33:58Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:34:04Z _death: jasom: I just tried the latest portacle on a win7 vm.. (it works)
2020-07-16T17:34:18Z jasom: _death: and I tried it on actual hardware
2020-07-16T17:34:52Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T17:35:17Z devrtz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T17:35:40Z _death: jasom: the person with the issue did not yet follow on the instructions given
2020-07-16T17:37:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-16T17:38:04Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:38:32Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:39:23Z devrtz joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:42:11Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-16T17:42:34Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:42:35Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T17:43:35Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:51:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-16T17:51:13Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:53:53Z xrash quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T17:53:59Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:56:38Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:57:31Z aeth: Well, this is somewhat annoying. The testing library parachute partially respects *print-case* as downcase. The test name will be downcased, but the package name will remain the true, upcased name. i.e. FOO::test
2020-07-16T17:57:37Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-16T17:58:40Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:01:08Z aeth: this is sort of the worst of the four possible ways *print-case* could be respected here (both, one of either, or neither) since the package name is the less important part of the name
2020-07-16T18:08:11Z phoe: aeth: oh
2020-07-16T18:08:24Z phoe: could you give me an example?
2020-07-16T18:08:36Z flazh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T18:09:06Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:10:20Z aeth: phoe: an example of what?
2020-07-16T18:10:46Z phoe: the print-case thing
2020-07-16T18:11:57Z aeth: in https://github.com/Shinmera/parachute the example is e.g. PARACHUTE::NUMBERS
2020-07-16T18:11:58Z phoe: you mean when printing the report?
2020-07-16T18:12:05Z aeth: with *print-case* :downcase it would be PARACHUTE::numbers
2020-07-16T18:12:22Z gravicappa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T18:12:48Z aeth: I usually *print-case* :downcase before testing or macroexpanding because it gives more human-readable names at the expense of not giving a completely accurate picture since "foo" could be |foo| or FOO.
2020-07-16T18:12:48Z phoe: ooooh, yes, I see
2020-07-16T18:13:56Z phoe: let me figure out where in parachute this needs to get fixed
2020-07-16T18:14:00Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T18:14:22Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:14:28Z scymtym: beach: Xach: the spec is pretty confusing but simple things are starting to work: https://techfak.de/~jmoringe/type-2-interpreter.png
2020-07-16T18:14:55Z aeth: phoe: My guess would be somewhere around https://github.com/Shinmera/parachute/blob/a9fdae87abf3c5070d77a68c5a7c967da686f556/result.lisp#L244
2020-07-16T18:15:16Z aeth: (There are several FORMAT-RESULTs in that file)
2020-07-16T18:15:51Z borodust: aeth theosvoitha: just in case, trivial-gamekit should work on native SBCL for Windows too (WSL is not needed)
2020-07-16T18:16:11Z phoe: aeth: correct
2020-07-16T18:16:33Z aeth: borodust: Yes, sorry, I was unclear, I was giving it as an example of something that probably wouldn't work under WSL
2020-07-16T18:16:34Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T18:17:48Z borodust: true, it would ask for X server to be present, but i'm unsure anyone tried WSL+X+gamekit at all
2020-07-16T18:18:10Z phoe: aeth: https://github.com/Shinmera/parachute/issues/21
2020-07-16T18:18:26Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:18:42Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T18:18:52Z aeth: phoe: what's weird is a string name isn't downcased, either, e.g. "Test" shows up as FOO::Test
2020-07-16T18:19:06Z aeth: But strings probably shouldn't be downcased, unlike symbols, because case preservation is probably always the intended result.
2020-07-16T18:19:20Z borodust: theosvoitha: phoe already mentioned it, Atom+SLIMA worked for me too (I set it up fairly easily just test things out)
2020-07-16T18:19:55Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:23:52Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-16T18:24:48Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:29:03Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:29:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T18:30:10Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T18:30:37Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:31:51Z xristos: scymtym: is that mcclim?
2020-07-16T18:32:47Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-16T18:33:46Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:34:52Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-16T18:39:30Z Sauvin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T18:41:15Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:42:07Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T18:46:03Z madage quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T18:46:04Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:50:27Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:51:08Z karlosz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T18:51:14Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:51:22Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-16T18:57:58Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T19:01:42Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T19:01:42Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-16T19:01:47Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T19:01:57Z frgo quit
2020-07-16T19:02:13Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:05:59Z scymtym: xristos: the debug visualization on the right side is. the left side is fontforge
2020-07-16T19:06:15Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-16T19:06:42Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T19:07:49Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:08:35Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:14:27Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:16:49Z sjl_: What's the correct/idiomatic way to intercept the initargs to a metaclass to process them?  Normally I'd do this kind of thing by defining a constructor function make-whatever, but since this is a metaclass I don't think I can make defclass call a constructor.
2020-07-16T19:16:57Z sjl_: I have a metaclass MC with a slot FOO (whose initarg is :FOO).  I want users to be able to say (defclass x () () (:metaclass mc) (:foo symb)) and have the slot FOO of the class set to SYMB.
2020-07-16T19:17:02Z sjl_: If I don't do anything special, then the FOO slot gets set to a list (SOMETHING) instead of just SOMETHING, because defclass supports class options with multiple things in the list, e.g. (:foo a b c), so the actual initarg that gets passed to (make-instance 'mc ...) is :foo (SOMETHING).
2020-07-16T19:17:16Z sjl_: In my particular case, I don't want that.  I want to ensure they either provide a single symbol or nothing.  Overriding shared-initialize and hacking the initargs to call-next-method seems to work, but I'm wondering if there's a cleaner way.
2020-07-16T19:17:22Z sjl_: Example: https://paste.stevelosh.com/3f9550acb99b0b7cf576f3708c22efc0312754de
2020-07-16T19:20:33Z Bike: i don't know of any cleaner way. clasp (inheriting from ecl) actually does that internally for the slots: https://github.com/clasp-developers/clasp/blob/master/src/lisp/kernel/clos/standard.lsp#L229-L233
2020-07-16T19:20:41Z Bike: at least i think this is from ecl
2020-07-16T19:21:28Z sjl_: Interesting.  Okay, at least I'm not completely off base with this approach.  Thanks.
2020-07-16T19:22:17Z karlosz_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:22:42Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-16T19:22:48Z karlosz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T19:22:51Z karlosz_ is now known as karlosz
2020-07-16T19:23:24Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:25:55Z phoe: sjl_: second
2020-07-16T19:26:06Z phoe: https://gitlab.com/cal-coop/netfarm/netfarm/-/blob/master/Code/Objects/MOP/netfarm-class.lisp#L89
2020-07-16T19:26:17Z phoe: Gnuxie[m] was just talking about this case on #lispcafe
2020-07-16T19:26:24Z phoe: and no-defun-allowed
2020-07-16T19:26:29Z phoe: and the above thing seems to work
2020-07-16T19:26:42Z sjl_: I'm... not sure how that relates to my question?
2020-07-16T19:27:03Z phoe: oh wait, you want to just intercept them, not modify them
2020-07-16T19:27:07Z sjl_: Oh, are you talking about the line further down?
2020-07-16T19:27:11Z phoe: yes
2020-07-16T19:27:12Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-16T19:27:37Z phoe: the defmethod at L95 plays with :direct-superclasses by calling patch-object-into-superclasses
2020-07-16T19:27:38Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:27:46Z sjl_: Ah, yes.  That looks similar to what Bike linked, and is basically the same approach in my example, right?
2020-07-16T19:27:48Z phoe: I assumed this is the kind of interception you are talking about
2020-07-16T19:27:55Z phoe clicks Bike link
2020-07-16T19:28:09Z sjl_: Override the initialization method, patch the args to call-next-method
2020-07-16T19:28:35Z phoe: the only difference I see there is between a primary method and an around method, but that's effectively the same thing
2020-07-16T19:28:45Z sjl_: I forgot you could do both &rest and &key to avoid the boilerplate getf though, that's nice
2020-07-16T19:29:24Z phoe: yes, I use this extensively
2020-07-16T19:29:41Z phoe: in particular, `&rest args &key foo &allow-other-keys` is amazing
2020-07-16T19:30:26Z phoe: if your generic function accepts e.g. `&key foo bar baz quux fred` then the above effectively grabs `&key foo` and still allows you to `(apply #'call-next-method ... args)`
2020-07-16T19:32:11Z sjl_: Right, so something like https://paste.stevelosh.com/8e40f867cdc53060ed389bf2d7c93551363f23fc
2020-07-16T19:32:50Z phoe: I think so, yes
2020-07-16T19:32:57Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:33:06Z sjl_: But yeah, I was mostly just wondering about the overall approach.  Sounds like overriding shared-initialize or initialize-instance and prepending the fixed version is a reasonable approach.
2020-07-16T19:33:12Z sjl_: Thanks
2020-07-16T19:33:14Z phoe: that's what I do myself
2020-07-16T19:33:25Z phoe: also forgive me the off-topic, but this gem just landed on one of my mailgroups
2020-07-16T19:33:31Z phoe: "We’re working to get Interlisp-D / Medley / Xerox Common Lisp released (with permissive licenses); see https://docs.google.com/document/d/17LkdOmdRtuZmvxS4flAf14Kl7oWmVTuimtyRSebxk4M/edit?usp=sharing for status and plans."
2020-07-16T19:33:48Z phoe: (well, it's not really off-topic, since it says Xerox Common Lisp!)
2020-07-16T19:35:54Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:39:02Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T19:39:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:39:44Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-16T19:40:26Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T19:41:23Z karlosz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T19:41:49Z karayan joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:42:04Z frgo_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:42:18Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T19:42:19Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:43:37Z frgo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T19:44:57Z Lycurgus quit (Quit: Exeunt)
2020-07-16T19:45:24Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:52:39Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:53:56Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-16T19:54:17Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:54:48Z jmercouris: well well
2020-07-16T19:54:57Z jmercouris: I didn’t even know Xerox had an implementation!
2020-07-16T19:55:03Z jmercouris: It doesn’t surprise me though
2020-07-16T19:56:07Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-16T19:57:56Z gioyik quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T19:59:46Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T20:02:54Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-16T20:03:35Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T20:05:18Z jackdaniel: since they are going to opensource it, and interlisp is one of cl ancestors, I don't think it is much on the offtopic side, rather it is ontopic
2020-07-16T20:05:21Z jackdaniel: thanks for sharing
2020-07-16T20:05:23Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T20:06:52Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-16T20:07:41Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T20:08:49Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-16T20:08:58Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-16T20:12:27Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-16T20:14:52Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T20:18:11Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T20:25:10Z karlosz_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T20:26:34Z karlosz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T20:26:34Z karlosz_ is now known as karlosz
2020-07-16T20:28:59Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T20:29:07Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T20:30:47Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-16T20:31:27Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-16T20:31:49Z aeth: I wonder if there's a way to use a condition at the end of parachute:test so I can exit the process on failure, for CI. asdf:test-system always returns T iirc, which makes its return value useless, but I don't want to directly call parachute:test if I can avoid it.
2020-07-16T20:36:44Z jasom: phoe: is CLtL1 common lisp on-topic?  I think the Xerox CL is pre-ANSI.
2020-07-16T20:38:51Z jackdaniel: I'm sure it would be more offtopic had we been discussing merits of interlisp or how to make something work on cltl1;
2020-07-16T20:41:23Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T20:41:50Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T20:45:19Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T20:46:21Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T20:46:29Z phoe: jasom: I honestly have no idea
2020-07-16T20:47:10Z phoe: aeth: parachute:test returns a meaningful value, you can inspect it for any failed test results
2020-07-16T20:47:40Z phoe: otherwise, you can do that in ASDF:TEST-SYSTEM - call parachute:test, inspect the returned value, signal an error if any failed results are there
2020-07-16T20:54:09Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T20:57:12Z xuxuru quit (Quit: xuxuru)
2020-07-16T20:57:27Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T21:10:01Z phoe: beach: scymtym: Eclector gets a honorable mention in my book for being programmable using restarts/handlers. Thank you for it!
2020-07-16T21:12:04Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-16T21:14:04Z phoe: minion: memo for pfdietz: thank you for mentioning the foo:bar reader issue on HN. I've added a chapter to my book that refers to it.
2020-07-16T21:14:04Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell pfdietz when he/she/it next speaks.
2020-07-16T21:17:10Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-16T21:19:01Z nabataeus joined #lisp
2020-07-16T21:19:13Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-16T21:19:21Z tutti joined #lisp
2020-07-16T21:21:21Z phoe: minion: memo for pfdietz: I will also allow myself to include parts of your comment in the book text and to include your name in the book's Hall of Fame.
2020-07-16T21:21:21Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell pfdietz when he/she/it next speaks.
2020-07-16T21:22:22Z aeth: phoe: yeah, but ASDF testops seem to ignore meaningful values, thus requiring some degree of spaghetti
2020-07-16T21:22:33Z aeth: I guess I'll just not use asdf:test-system for the moment
2020-07-16T21:23:01Z phoe: aeth: the "consensus" seems to be that the tests should signal an error in case of failure.
2020-07-16T21:23:11Z phoe: and everything else is a pass.
2020-07-16T21:29:14Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-16T21:29:26Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T21:38:15Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T21:39:11Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T21:39:43Z aeth: phoe: but the annoying part is that none is provided
2020-07-16T21:40:27Z aeth: Hmm... Wow, parachute's compatability is useless because it nicknames itself to "fiveam" guaranteeing that any large project is going to be unable to use parachute-fiveam because one of its dependencies almost certainly is using the real fiveam.
2020-07-16T21:41:47Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T21:42:13Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-16T21:46:34Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T21:54:14Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T21:55:24Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T21:57:49Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-16T21:59:00Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T22:05:11Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-16T22:05:51Z theosvoitha quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-07-16T22:09:41Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-16T22:10:24Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T22:12:09Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-16T22:13:42Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T22:17:35Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-16T22:31:47Z ayuce quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T22:32:47Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-16T22:32:47Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-16T22:32:47Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-16T22:35:07Z bitmapper quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T22:40:15Z tutti quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T22:41:32Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-16T22:44:11Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T22:47:10Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-16T22:48:46Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-16T22:52:11Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T22:52:30Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-16T22:52:41Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-16T22:55:50Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T22:56:35Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-16T22:58:42Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:00:10Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T23:01:08Z kmeow joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:01:42Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-16T23:03:38Z xi quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-07-16T23:04:28Z xi joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:04:40Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:13:12Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T23:13:44Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-16T23:16:16Z nabataeus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z flazh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z Josh_2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z stepnem quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z Blukunfando quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z Khisanth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z thecoffemaker quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z zaquest quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z penguwin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z oldtopman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z kbtr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z cdegroot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z kingcons quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:17Z wigust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-16T23:16:36Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z nabataeus joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z gko joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z thecoffemaker joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z ski joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z penguwin joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z oldtopman joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z kingcons joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z kbtr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z cdegroot joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z mood joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:22:59Z wigust joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:28:06Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:28:35Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:29:07Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-16T23:29:53Z nckx is now known as guix
2020-07-16T23:31:58Z guix is now known as nckx
2020-07-16T23:37:06Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:39:16Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-16T23:45:00Z kelamir[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:48:39Z eddof13 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-16T23:48:52Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-16T23:57:47Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-16T23:58:13Z Codaraxis joined #lisp
2020-07-16T23:58:28Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-16T23:59:12Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T00:02:44Z avalos joined #lisp
2020-07-17T00:09:22Z karlosz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T00:12:10Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-17T00:29:12Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T00:29:58Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T00:35:18Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T00:37:54Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T00:38:38Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T00:38:48Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T00:39:54Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-17T00:42:02Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T00:42:19Z terpri_ is now known as terpri
2020-07-17T00:52:29Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-17T00:52:32Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T00:54:40Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T00:58:26Z nicktick quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-17T01:01:02Z johntalent joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:01:30Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:03:23Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T01:04:27Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:04:35Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T01:06:24Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T01:09:47Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T01:10:16Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-17T01:13:05Z nicktick1 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:13:26Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T01:15:07Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:22:18Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:30:11Z nicktick1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T01:34:13Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:34:53Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:37:24Z avalos quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T01:39:49Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-17T01:44:01Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:48:41Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:49:14Z avalos joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:51:42Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T01:51:49Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-17T01:53:21Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T01:53:58Z thecoffemaker quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-17T01:56:28Z thecoffemaker joined #lisp
2020-07-17T02:05:14Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T02:10:59Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T02:11:06Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-17T02:21:55Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-17T02:22:22Z kmeow quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T02:28:23Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-17T02:30:35Z johntalent quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-17T02:31:25Z avalos quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-17T02:51:43Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-17T02:52:29Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-17T02:57:22Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T02:57:32Z luis quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T03:02:08Z avalos joined #lisp
2020-07-17T03:03:39Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T03:04:46Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T03:08:57Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-17T03:18:24Z v3ga: Does anyone here use sly with emacs? I'm fairly familiar with emacs as my daily driver. Slime starts with no problem but after installing the sly package emacs doesn't seem to recognize it at all.  M-x sly (sly doesn't exist even though i've installed and deleted, reinstalled several times)
2020-07-17T03:18:44Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T03:26:04Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-17T03:26:49Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-17T03:27:45Z v3ga: hola
2020-07-17T03:30:16Z loke: v3ga: No. I never understood why anyone would use sly (which has less features than SLIME)
2020-07-17T03:32:15Z v3ga: loke: oh? i read that it had more. if I can ignore just stick with slime then that's fine
2020-07-17T03:35:46Z v3ga: ok, well that solves that
2020-07-17T03:36:51Z beach: scymtym: Wow, nice work with type 2 fonts!
2020-07-17T03:36:54Z beach: phoe: Eclector is more the work of scymtym these days.
2020-07-17T03:40:16Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T03:40:49Z luis joined #lisp
2020-07-17T03:43:06Z nabataeus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T03:43:19Z nabataeus joined #lisp
2020-07-17T03:46:12Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T03:51:22Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-17T03:53:51Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T03:54:58Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:12:14Z loke: v3ga: The main missing feature of Sly is that it doesn't support presentations. That's crazy to me, as it's one of th emost useful features of SLIME.
2020-07-17T04:22:16Z v3ga: loke: hmm, well slime it is.  I'd actually never heard of Sly until a few days ago and in my readings they were making it sound like it was SLIME with additional features. I'm already turned off by the installation process so SLIME is fine
2020-07-17T04:23:14Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-17T04:23:38Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:25:18Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T04:27:27Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:29:38Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T04:31:30Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T04:35:23Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:38:45Z kmeow joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:43:33Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T04:44:25Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:47:39Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:47:42Z nabataeus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T04:48:33Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:49:36Z nabataeus joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:50:26Z wooden joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:50:26Z wooden quit (Changing host)
2020-07-17T04:50:26Z wooden joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:53:22Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T04:54:03Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T04:59:27Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T04:59:33Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-17T05:00:00Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T05:06:49Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-17T05:09:13Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-17T05:09:51Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-17T05:12:44Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-17T05:19:21Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T05:19:50Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T05:21:19Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T05:22:12Z wxie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T05:22:13Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-17T05:24:32Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T05:25:55Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T05:26:30Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T05:36:00Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-17T05:37:25Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-17T05:41:07Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-17T05:41:13Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T05:41:19Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T05:42:23Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-17T05:43:37Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-17T05:51:00Z nabataeus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T05:52:11Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-17T05:52:11Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T05:55:36Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T06:08:34Z avalos quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T06:18:48Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T06:24:41Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T06:28:17Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-17T06:31:44Z v3ga: sbcl is much lighter than clojure/jvm isn't it?
2020-07-17T06:33:19Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T06:35:26Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-17T06:35:44Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-17T06:35:57Z seok: how hard would it be to build a regex search engine for data stored in file system?
2020-07-17T06:35:57Z minion: seok, memo from DGASAU: modern "traditional" DBMSes create indices for all columns with sufficient constraints upfront, plus they typically gather statistics on queries and adapt query execution plans accordingly. This alone typically makes SQL-based applications (in long-run use case) perform significantly better than those with manual in-memory joins and manual performance tweaks.
2020-07-17T06:35:57Z minion: seok, memo from DGASAU: also, for the reference, there was a paper from Google that summarized all their story behind "no-SQL" movement, when after more than 5 years pushing for "no SQL for performance" they admitted that in reality this doesn't actually pay off.
2020-07-17T06:36:37Z flip214: seok: there's already cl-ppcre for Perl-compatible regular expressions. and reading files is also easy...
2020-07-17T06:37:06Z seok: how would that scale for large datasets tho?
2020-07-17T06:37:54Z seok: @dgasau thanks! this helps a lot
2020-07-17T06:39:55Z flip214: seok: It's O(n) anyway... unless you're asking about creating an index for repeated querying, then I'd look at PgSQL first
2020-07-17T06:40:29Z seok: yeah I guess pg would have better solution than O(n)
2020-07-17T06:40:33Z seok: thx
2020-07-17T06:43:27Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T06:45:40Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T06:47:04Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-17T06:52:41Z lerax joined #lisp
2020-07-17T06:52:59Z ineiros quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T06:53:25Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-17T06:53:50Z vegai quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T06:57:29Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T06:59:10Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-17T07:03:29Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T07:05:53Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:09:13Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-17T07:12:39Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:13:40Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T07:16:46Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-17T07:19:44Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:19:49Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:20:11Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:21:14Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T07:22:46Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:22:53Z shangul quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T07:23:23Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T07:24:31Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-17T07:25:56Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:28:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:30:04Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:31:10Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:34:25Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-17T07:36:44Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:39:35Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:45:11Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:45:23Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T07:46:56Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:47:01Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-17T07:47:03Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:48:26Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T07:48:27Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T07:49:17Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T07:50:33Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T07:50:47Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:50:57Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:54:35Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T07:54:51Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:55:53Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-17T07:57:01Z ft quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T07:58:38Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T07:59:10Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:02:41Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T08:03:14Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:06:44Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T08:07:07Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:09:58Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T08:10:37Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T08:10:48Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T08:11:11Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:11:14Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:14:09Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:14:27Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-17T08:14:52Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T08:15:25Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:17:17Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T08:20:12Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T08:25:22Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:25:46Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T08:27:29Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:31:33Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:31:37Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T08:33:17Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T08:33:38Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:35:49Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:37:55Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T08:39:10Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T08:40:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T08:40:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:44:47Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:46:18Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T08:46:35Z contrapunctus: How difficult would it be for someone to write cross-platform MIDI bindings for CL, if they have no knowledge of MIDI or C? 🤔
2020-07-17T08:48:11Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:48:40Z flip214: which midi bindings?
2020-07-17T08:48:54Z flip214: parsing midi files? I did that ~10 years ago or so
2020-07-17T08:50:08Z phoe: doesn't such a thing already exist somewhere?
2020-07-17T08:50:58Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-17T08:53:10Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T09:00:34Z contrapunctus: flip214: MIDI playback
2020-07-17T09:00:35Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T09:01:05Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:01:20Z reggie_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T09:01:24Z contrapunctus: phoe: I didn't see anything on awesome-cl, but ISTR being surprised to see that RtMIDI had CL bindings too.
2020-07-17T09:02:15Z flip214: isn't MIDI playback (to hardware) just pushing to a serial port?
2020-07-17T09:02:29Z flip214: or locally running a program to render the sounds
2020-07-17T09:02:41Z flip214: I guess I just don't understand what you want to achieve
2020-07-17T09:03:31Z contrapunctus: Send MIDI to (software or hardware) samplers/recorders etc.
2020-07-17T09:05:32Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T09:05:35Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:05:41Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-17T09:05:41Z reggie_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:06:11Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:07:18Z Krystof quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T09:09:08Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:10:35Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:12:53Z beach: contrapunctus: MIDI playback is trivial as flip214 points out.
2020-07-17T09:13:27Z beach: contrapunctus: I think you should start such a suite of programs.
2020-07-17T09:13:37Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T09:13:45Z beach: contrapunctus: Are you planning to create a GUI as well for some parts of it?
2020-07-17T09:14:16Z beach: contrapunctus: If so, I recommend using McCLIM.
2020-07-17T09:14:59Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T09:16:38Z contrapunctus: beach, flip214: does 'just pushing to a serial port' also work for sending MIDI to software?
2020-07-17T09:17:18Z contrapunctus: beach: yeah, I want to make a GUI...and I'm interested in McCLIM 🙂
2020-07-17T09:18:22Z beach: It depends on how the software wants the MIDI events.  Since MIDI is real-time, there is no information about on/off times, so software must add that.  MIDIfile is one representation that adds such information.  I would think most software would recognize that format.
2020-07-17T09:20:02Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T09:20:40Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:21:11Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:24:18Z lavaflow quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T09:24:32Z luna_is_here: contrapunctus: You could take a look at PortMidi library. As far as I remember it also had the possibility to create virtual midi devices that you could use to send midi to software. The API is not too complex so it would be easy to create a CL wrapper.
2020-07-17T09:25:10Z beach: I think it would be much more interesting to see a pure Common Lisp solution.
2020-07-17T09:25:58Z luna_is_here: I'm not sure about the virtual device part.
2020-07-17T09:26:12Z luna_is_here: Maybe I am confusing something here...
2020-07-17T09:28:30Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:28:39Z luna_is_here: beach: Yeah. But if you want to send midi to hardware, you need to use the OS's interface (unless you are using DOS), meaning you have to create wrappers for every OS that you want to run on.
2020-07-17T09:29:02Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:29:36Z contrapunctus: luna_is_here: oh, bugger, that's why I couldn't find it - it was PortMidi, not RtMIDI 😅 thanks for reminding me. Lisp bindings! https://sourceforge.net/p/portmedia/code/HEAD/tree/portmidi/trunk/pm_cl/
2020-07-17T09:29:36Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:29:37Z jackdaniel: I think that there is a difference between using bindings to a library and using bindings to interface with the os
2020-07-17T09:30:10Z beach: I agree with jackdaniel.
2020-07-17T09:30:10Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T09:30:41Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:30:46Z luna_is_here: contrapunctus: :D The problem is, that RtMidi is the library that has the virtual midi device... Not PortMidi :(
2020-07-17T09:31:02Z luna_is_here: contrapunctus: If that is an important feature...
2020-07-17T09:31:26Z jackdaniel: I remember once (as a joke) I've made a linux kernel driver to play rttl mario bros melody on a buzzer
2020-07-17T09:31:41Z contrapunctus: But while sending MIDI to hardware would be nice, sending it to other software is more important for me 😶
2020-07-17T09:32:19Z contrapunctus: luna_is_here: what's a virtual MIDI device? 😶 (I really don't know anything about MIDI, except as a user...)
2020-07-17T09:32:47Z phoe: it's a program that accepts MIDI commands and can send MIDI commands, just like a physical MIDI device that is connected to a computer through a cable
2020-07-17T09:33:47Z luna_is_here: contrapunctus: If you want to send MIDI to, let's say, a DAW, then the DAW will look for a MIDI device to read and write data from and to. Hence, if you want to send midi to a software, most of the time, you get there by emulating a midi device.
2020-07-17T09:34:40Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:34:48Z luna_is_here: Just because most software will just ask the OS for the midi devices available, and use those.
2020-07-17T09:34:52Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T09:35:43Z luna_is_here: Depending on what you plan exactly, you can also write a VST, LV2 or AU plugin. That could be possible with ECL.
2020-07-17T09:35:49Z contrapunctus: Oh. So I need to either make bindings for RtMIDI or Rewrite It In Lisp? 😶
2020-07-17T09:37:39Z luna_is_here: From looking at the documentation, I fear that PortMidi does not allow for the creation of virtual midi device. So if that is what you want, then I assume: yes.
2020-07-17T09:38:50Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-17T09:40:55Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:42:04Z luna_is_here: Otherwise you could use loopMIDI on Windows. (I do not know if there is something similar for other OS's)
2020-07-17T09:42:28Z beach: Are there still people using Windows?
2020-07-17T09:42:46Z luna_is_here: :D
2020-07-17T09:42:51Z phoe: beach: there sadly are
2020-07-17T09:42:56Z beach: Wow!
2020-07-17T09:43:44Z contrapunctus: 😄
2020-07-17T09:46:28Z contrapunctus: So how would I go about making Lisp bindings for a C++ library? Didn't get any relevant results.
2020-07-17T09:46:51Z phoe: you're up for a world of pain
2020-07-17T09:46:56Z beach just lost interest in this project.
2020-07-17T09:47:10Z phoe: the standard way is to create a C interface in between, compile that, and interface Lisp with it
2020-07-17T09:47:30Z contrapunctus: Yow.
2020-07-17T09:47:40Z phoe: doing it with raw C++ is insanity e.g. because of the way it does name mangling
2020-07-17T09:47:49Z phoe: or use Clasp which compiles Lisp with C++ code
2020-07-17T09:48:19Z phoe: basically, C++ is a horrible abomination to interface with
2020-07-17T09:48:21Z contrapunctus: phoe: but that would mean it wouldn't be implementation portable 🙁
2020-07-17T09:49:00Z phoe: contrapunctus: what do you mean, implementation portable?
2020-07-17T09:49:07Z phoe: you mean a Lisp implementation or a C++ implementation
2020-07-17T09:49:24Z phoe: Lisp is not a problem because you have CFFI which is a portability library
2020-07-17T09:49:44Z phoe: C++ is not a problem when you have C, because C names are not mangled
2020-07-17T09:49:58Z contrapunctus: I mean, then I'd be stuck with Clasp and someone using e.g. SBCL wouldn't be able to use the library.
2020-07-17T09:50:04Z phoe: obviously
2020-07-17T09:50:32Z phoe: Clasp-compiling C++ with Lisp won't work with other implementations.
2020-07-17T09:50:57Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T09:51:05Z phoe: so a C mediation layer is one of the two options I'd consider for real, practical purposes
2020-07-17T09:51:38Z contrapunctus: phoe: is there any resource I can study, for doing that?
2020-07-17T09:51:40Z phoe: the other is going beach way and writing everything in Lisp and/or using or reviving some already existing Lisp software, which I don't think would be that hard
2020-07-17T09:52:16Z beach: There is a lot of music software at IRCAM and they used Common Lisp a lot.
2020-07-17T09:52:22Z phoe: ^
2020-07-17T09:52:24Z beach: Maybe some of it is now open source.
2020-07-17T09:52:39Z beach: Try OpenMusic for instance.
2020-07-17T09:52:48Z contrapunctus: Whoa. That would mean studying so many MIDI APIs on so many platforms 😳
2020-07-17T09:52:59Z phoe: what do you mean, many MIDI APIs on many platforms
2020-07-17T09:53:10Z phoe: you can stick with just one if you're lucky
2020-07-17T09:53:28Z phoe: also, once you understand MIDI as a protocol, you can implement it anywhere
2020-07-17T09:53:30Z contrapunctus: (Although, well, probably still less work and more play than dealing with C/C++)
2020-07-17T09:53:38Z phoe: I think that I agree with that
2020-07-17T09:53:45Z phoe: almost everything is better than dealing with C++
2020-07-17T09:54:13Z phoe: and when dealing with C++ is the only real viable option for your use case, you get insane^Wambitious projects like Clasp sprout into life
2020-07-17T09:54:24Z contrapunctus: hehe
2020-07-17T09:55:09Z phoe: but then again, that's because drmeister has truckloads of C++ science code that he needs to use from Lisp and at the same time cannot feasily rewrite in Lisp.
2020-07-17T09:55:54Z luna_is_here: contrapunctus: RtMidi has a C API also.
2020-07-17T09:56:47Z phoe: so tl;dr either use native Lisp software (which is greatly preferable and requires just a bit of software archaeology now and then), or bind against C foreign interfaces when native Lisp stuff is not available and not feasible to write
2020-07-17T09:59:53Z contrapunctus: luna_is_here: ah, thanks for pointing that out. 🙂
2020-07-17T10:00:01Z beach: contrapunctus: I suggest you look at OpenMusic.  It is written in Common Lisp and it can be downloaded for Linux.
2020-07-17T10:00:52Z beach: There are also versions for MacOS and Windows apparently.
2020-07-17T10:03:53Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:03:58Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T10:04:47Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:06:25Z frgo_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-17T10:07:31Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T10:07:53Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:12:47Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T10:15:27Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-17T10:15:29Z contrapunctus: So many roads to choose from 😵
2020-07-17T10:25:56Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-17T10:25:56Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T10:27:32Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:29:24Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T10:30:12Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:39:22Z kmeow quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T10:40:29Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:41:32Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:41:34Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T10:42:47Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:44:22Z rixard quit
2020-07-17T10:47:10Z luna_is_here: Did SWIG not have CL support at one point?
2020-07-17T10:48:39Z phoe: it did, v2; v3 removed it
2020-07-17T10:48:59Z luna_is_here: Awww :/
2020-07-17T10:50:32Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:51:16Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T10:52:55Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:52:55Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:53:14Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T10:55:26Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T10:55:42Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-17T10:58:42Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T11:00:22Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T11:02:40Z TMA: luna_is_here: I were attempting to resurrect it, but the amount of time my brain is capable to make progress is severely constrained by other more pressing tasks.
2020-07-17T11:02:56Z TMA: I was, even
2020-07-17T11:03:10Z luna_is_here: I see.
2020-07-17T11:04:56Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-17T11:05:37Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T11:06:15Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-17T11:10:53Z lerax` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T11:12:11Z Achylles joined #lisp
2020-07-17T11:15:23Z lerax quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-17T11:18:13Z nabataeus joined #lisp
2020-07-17T11:21:59Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T11:28:26Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-17T11:28:30Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T11:37:00Z lerax` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-17T11:49:41Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T11:51:46Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-17T11:52:35Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T11:52:48Z ursuta joined #lisp
2020-07-17T11:52:49Z ursuta quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-17T11:52:52Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T11:53:04Z contrapunctus starts reading the CFFI tutorial
2020-07-17T12:03:34Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:05:01Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:08:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-17T12:08:17Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:09:25Z simon108 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:10:22Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T12:12:01Z beach: Oh well.
2020-07-17T12:12:02Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T12:12:09Z beach: I tried my best.
2020-07-17T12:22:48Z Achylles quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T12:38:32Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:38:38Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:41:33Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:43:06Z contrapunctus: beach: I'll need that even if want to make a cross platform Lisp MIDI library...right? e.g. to interface with ALSA MIDI.
2020-07-17T12:43:45Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:46:15Z luna_is_here: contrapunctus: If you want to interface with hardware or software and not just write midi files, yes.
2020-07-17T12:47:49Z contrapunctus: I suppose one could implement a new Lisp MIDI API too, but I don't know if that will be worth the required effort.
2020-07-17T12:48:47Z contrapunctus: OpenMusic seems to use JUCE, so if they made a wrapper around that, maybe I could split it out into a project of its own.
2020-07-17T12:49:26Z luna_is_here: Sounds possible.
2020-07-17T12:51:28Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-17T12:53:11Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:53:35Z lukego: I'm rusty and not up to date on how the cool kids do control flow and data structures these days. what are some options for converting a two-dimensional array into a flat list?
2020-07-17T12:53:47Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T12:53:59Z phoe: you mean a list of lists?
2020-07-17T12:54:06Z phoe: or a list of all elements in row major order?
2020-07-17T12:54:39Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T12:54:55Z phoe: in the latter case, (loop with array = #2A((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9)) for i below (array-total-size array) collect (row-major-aref array i))
2020-07-17T12:55:00Z lukego: the latter. Or I'd settle for just a way to iterate through all items
2020-07-17T12:55:02Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T12:55:15Z lukego: oh that is neat!
2020-07-17T12:55:16Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-17T12:55:17Z phoe: gods bless ROW-MAJOR-AREF
2020-07-17T12:55:48Z lukego: I don't think I've really used multidimensional arrays in lisp before. I was surprised and delighted to see the reader syntax for literals.
2020-07-17T12:55:50Z jackdaniel: conformally displaced row-major-aref winks from the depths of hell
2020-07-17T12:56:43Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:57:32Z _death: (coerce (make-array (array-total-size array) :displaced-to 2d-array) 'list)
2020-07-17T12:57:46Z phoe: _death: also nice
2020-07-17T12:58:01Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T12:58:58Z lukego: I've done so much Lua lately that I catch myself thinking that ARRAY-TOTAL-SIZE should be expensive since checking the size of each row takes O(log n) time to binary search for the last populated element..
2020-07-17T12:59:26Z lukego: (not that it would matter now anyway)
2020-07-17T13:00:12Z _death: you may also need to supply the element-type
2020-07-17T13:01:57Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T13:02:38Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-17T13:07:14Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T13:07:56Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-17T13:08:11Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T13:15:21Z vaporatorius__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-17T13:15:31Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-17T13:15:31Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-17T13:15:31Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-17T13:15:32Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-17T13:19:07Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-17T13:21:10Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T13:21:23Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-17T13:21:44Z lukego: I'd like to generate some randomized test data. Ideally starting with simple examples and gradually becoming more complex. Basically like in a property-based testing framework. Any recommendations?
2020-07-17T13:22:11Z phoe: screamer comes to mind, but it solves a slightly different problem
2020-07-17T13:26:20Z l1x quit
2020-07-17T13:26:40Z l1x joined #lisp
2020-07-17T13:27:52Z lukego: Maybe check-it? https://github.com/DalekBaldwin/check-it
2020-07-17T13:35:52Z _death: fiveam also has some random testing support
2020-07-17T13:36:58Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T13:37:09Z lukego: check-it code looks really nice to me at first glance. heavy on a pattern matching library called OPTIMA that looks nifty too
2020-07-17T13:37:26Z lukego: seems like the generators can be used independently of the testing framework (but I'll probably want that later)
2020-07-17T13:38:47Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T13:46:10Z mjl quit
2020-07-17T13:46:27Z mjl joined #lisp
2020-07-17T13:47:05Z lukego: hm but being part of an automated test framework there maybe aren't the right knobs for generators. Seems like the random sampling takes a uniform value up to a size limit, whereas I'd probably like some other random distributions e.g. log transform to bias towards small values while still permitting bigger ones. maybe can put that into the framework. reads...
2020-07-17T13:49:12Z jmercouris: OPTIMA is not nifty, not in my opinion
2020-07-17T13:49:12Z jmercouris: I don't like pattern matching libraries
2020-07-17T13:49:17Z jmercouris: cryptic syntax
2020-07-17T13:49:24Z jmercouris: it is not so verbose to write (equal x y) is it?
2020-07-17T13:49:52Z jackdaniel: that's not what pattern matching is for
2020-07-17T13:50:00Z jmercouris: that's what is often used for
2020-07-17T13:51:02Z jackdaniel: by whom? ,)
2020-07-17T13:51:06Z lukego: check-it source is really easy to read with the patterns, for me at least who's worked in patterny languages sometimes in the past (otherwise surely cognitive overhead)
2020-07-17T13:52:24Z lukego: guess it's also one of those things where if you're doing pattern matching you'll tend to choose basic data structures to suit
2020-07-17T13:53:36Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-17T14:00:16Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T14:02:34Z splittist quit
2020-07-17T14:02:50Z splittist joined #lisp
2020-07-17T14:12:51Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T14:17:57Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-17T14:20:22Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T14:21:23Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-17T14:24:33Z Retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-17T14:30:47Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-17T14:33:36Z simon108 left #lisp
2020-07-17T14:39:49Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-17T14:49:05Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T14:50:10Z Josh_2: Hi
2020-07-17T14:51:18Z Josh_2: Wheres the best place to look for examples of the MOP in use?
2020-07-17T14:55:34Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T14:56:56Z Gnuxie[m]: what do you want to do with it?
2020-07-17T14:57:16Z lukego: I feel dirty when I call SB-INT:COLLECT. Is there an obvious way to launder that e.g. via alexandria or something?
2020-07-17T14:57:52Z phoe: lukego: uiop:while-collecting, unless you're allergic to uiop
2020-07-17T14:58:26Z lukego: thanks!
2020-07-17T15:01:02Z jackdaniel: uiop:while-collecting has a bug, I don't recall what exactly
2020-07-17T15:01:17Z jackdaniel: but it goes belly up for some inputs
2020-07-17T15:01:35Z Gnuxie[m]: Josh_2: Postmodern/Mito/json-mop have readable examples for slot classes and other basic use cases (but honestly h*ck ORM)
2020-07-17T15:01:52Z liberliver quit (Quit: liberliver)
2020-07-17T15:02:27Z jackdaniel: lukego: collect originates from cmucl, here is one of many utility copies:  https://github.com/McCLIM/McCLIM/blob/master/Core/clim-basic/utils.lisp#L716
2020-07-17T15:02:59Z phoe: the issue is that I don't know a commonly used library that includes this macro
2020-07-17T15:03:07Z phoe: flip214: maybe alexandria2 would consider adding it?
2020-07-17T15:03:07Z lukego: I'm actually fine with being non-portable it just feels icky to reference SB-INT in source code because it looks "internaley." Back when I used CMUCL I was more than happy to use EXT:COLLECT :)
2020-07-17T15:03:29Z phoe: s/whole post/maybe you would consider adding it to alexandria2?/
2020-07-17T15:03:36Z jackdaniel: lukego: just copy it to your utilities file and forget about the issue
2020-07-17T15:03:41Z lukego: Or otherwise how would you convert alexandria's MAP-COMBINATIONS into a COMBINATIONS function that accumulates into a list?
2020-07-17T15:04:03Z Josh_2: Gnuxie[m]: I'm not sure, I need to get a gist of what I can do with it before I can understand how I can apply it to current projects
2020-07-17T15:04:06Z jackdaniel: the library "collectors" has somewhat similar equivalent
2020-07-17T15:04:16Z Josh_2: I will check what you have suggested, thanks Gnuxie[m]
2020-07-17T15:05:14Z lukego: jackdaniel: yeah fair enough. I did the next best/worst thing of updating my defpackage with (import-from #:sb-int #:collect)
2020-07-17T15:05:25Z jackdaniel: that works too, sure
2020-07-17T15:06:31Z lukego: I'm curious though how other people usually do "collecting" with "mapping" functions though? I mean for data that's not supported by loop accumulating keywords and doesn't provide a reduce-like accumulating version
2020-07-17T15:06:59Z jackdaniel uses ext:collect on ecl and climi::collect in mcclim :)
2020-07-17T15:07:03Z phoe: a LAMBDA over PUSH tends to save the day
2020-07-17T15:07:28Z jackdaniel: don't forget about nreverse
2020-07-17T15:07:59Z phoe: oh right, (let ((x '())) ... (lambda (y) (push y x)) ... (nreverse x)))
2020-07-17T15:08:25Z lukego: ok yeah that's decent too but I'll stick with collect
2020-07-17T15:08:53Z lukego: I have missed this about Lisp, curating one's own personal programming style :)
2020-07-17T15:12:15Z beach: Don't take that possibility too far.
2020-07-17T15:12:34Z kmeow joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:13:05Z phoe: "with great expressiveness comes great possibilty of making Lisp as readable as poorly golfed Perl"
2020-07-17T15:16:36Z contrapunctus: lol
2020-07-17T15:17:22Z lukego: shoe changing foot quickly :-) thought I was clever doing (collect ((comb)) (alexandria:map-combations #'comb list)) ...) but of course COMB is a not a function...
2020-07-17T15:18:16Z lukego: not immediately obvious to me that COLLECT needs to use MACROLET instead of LABELS under the hood either...
2020-07-17T15:19:08Z phoe: I think that FLET is enough though
2020-07-17T15:19:36Z phoe: at least my lambda example up there has a single anonymous function for collecting stuff
2020-07-17T15:19:47Z contrapunctus: beach: I had a look at the 'ancient CL version' of OpenMusic on GitHub...it seems to be GPL, whereas I prefer to Unlicense my work. 😔 I guess I'll look into wrapping the RtMIDI C API, which seems like the next most pragmatic route.
2020-07-17T15:20:59Z phoe: ancient? https://github.com/openmusic-project/openmusic has a release from this year
2020-07-17T15:21:03Z phoe: but that is GPL as well
2020-07-17T15:21:09Z jackdaniel: the macro collect uses macrolet to allow having any collecting method, not only collect list
2020-07-17T15:23:55Z lukego: collectors library looks nice but code doesn't seem to match implementation. (collecting (map-combinations #'collect list)) should do what I want but the macro doesn't parse those args
2020-07-17T15:24:03Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:26:10Z ntr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T15:29:19Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:30:29Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-17T15:31:04Z contrapunctus: phoe: oh, I confused it with CommonMusic 🤦‍♀️
2020-07-17T15:31:29Z ntr joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:34:14Z lukego: so my ultimate compromise for now is to take the nice COLLECTING interface from the COLLECTORS documentation, which isn't really supported by that library as installed from quicklisp, and port it onto the top of SB-INT:COLLECT. good enough for now. https://gist.github.com/lukego/1714405ba893250812bf522a1e4f1b97
2020-07-17T15:35:23Z heisig quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T15:39:34Z lukego: then you can (defun permutations (list) (collecting (map-permutations #'collect list))) which is a darling I haven't murdered yet :)
2020-07-17T15:41:22Z ffwacom quit
2020-07-17T15:41:38Z ffwacom joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:42:06Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:42:06Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-17T15:42:06Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:46:00Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:47:03Z boeg quit
2020-07-17T15:47:18Z boeg joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:50:11Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T15:51:04Z lukego: So next naive question perhaps leading to a hot library tip: how would you compute the list of all subsets of the set LIST?
2020-07-17T15:53:00Z phoe: wait a second
2020-07-17T15:53:05Z phoe: LIST === (OR CONS NULL)
2020-07-17T15:53:10Z phoe: that's when it comes to types
2020-07-17T15:53:23Z phoe: what exactly do you want to do?
2020-07-17T15:53:26Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:53:26Z jackdaniel: that's not a problem, the resulting list will have a nil as one of subsets
2020-07-17T15:54:10Z lukego: (subsets (1 2 3)) => (() (1) (2) (3) (1 2) (1 3) (2 3) (1 2 3))
2020-07-17T15:54:56Z lukego: I find myself writing a recursive function but it feels like this should exist and that makes me wonder if I'm missing another alexandria/uiop sort of library
2020-07-17T15:55:08Z lukego: or simply doing an apropos search on the wrong keyword..
2020-07-17T15:55:51Z lukego consults that awesome-lisp page again..
2020-07-17T15:57:26Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:57:28Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-17T15:57:50Z jackdaniel: lukego: I have something
2020-07-17T15:57:53Z jackdaniel: hang on
2020-07-17T15:58:15Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-17T15:58:55Z phoe: (let ((x '()) (list '(1 2 3 4 5))) (loop for i from 0 below (length list)  do (alexandria:map-combinations (lambda (y) (push y x)) list :length i)) x)
2020-07-17T15:59:05Z phoe: could also use DOTIMES instead of LOOP
2020-07-17T15:59:34Z contrapunctus: Doesn't loop let you say 'with x'?
2020-07-17T15:59:42Z phoe: oh right, it does
2020-07-17T15:59:59Z jackdaniel: what phoe wrote is ~same what I had in mind
2020-07-17T16:00:50Z pve: lukego: is that the powerset?
2020-07-17T16:01:02Z pve: https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Power_set#Common_Lisp
2020-07-17T16:01:08Z phoe: pve: it is
2020-07-17T16:01:11Z lukego: phoe: oh nice. I can combine that with my little NIH macro and have (collecting (dotimes (i (length list)) (map-combinations #'collect list :length i))) which is just fine
2020-07-17T16:01:58Z lukego: thank you pve! I lacked that term and it's the right one
2020-07-17T16:03:19Z pve: lukego: np
2020-07-17T16:03:33Z lukego: I like this little collecting/collect pair from COLLECTORS interface because I'm not sure that I've ever actually had multiple collectors with COLLECT nor given a collector a useful name
2020-07-17T16:03:46Z lukego: Jolly nice lisping with you all. nice weekend!
2020-07-17T16:04:12Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-17T16:07:12Z nabataeus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T16:10:35Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T16:11:17Z dlowe: Seems like you could make a list type if you could do (deftype my-list (or (cons my-type my-list) null))
2020-07-17T16:11:26Z dlowe: *a nicer list type
2020-07-17T16:16:18Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T16:16:21Z Bike: recursive types introduce complications into the system that i, at least, wouldn't know how to solve. for example under the usual recursive definition of subtype, #1=(cons t #1#), which i would understand as the type of infinite circular lists, is a subtype of the bottom type NIL
2020-07-17T16:16:27Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-17T16:17:47Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-17T16:18:33Z karlosz quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-17T16:19:05Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-17T16:22:05Z karlosz quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-17T16:36:20Z makomo joined #lisp
2020-07-17T16:41:59Z avalos joined #lisp
2020-07-17T16:46:57Z frgo: Hi all: question: I need to copy a large (2GB) in 255 byte chunks into foreign memory using CFFI. Would I use something like https://github.com/jetmonk/waaf-cffi for this?
2020-07-17T16:47:18Z frgo: s/large /large file /
2020-07-17T16:48:06Z frgo: Or just cffi:with-foreign-pointer and loop ?
2020-07-17T16:58:28Z avalos quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T16:59:03Z avalos joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:01:41Z phoe: maybe try mmapping it instead
2020-07-17T17:06:13Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T17:06:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:11:04Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:11:23Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T17:13:16Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:14:07Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T17:14:35Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:17:24Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-17T17:17:35Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:25:01Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T17:25:33Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:27:06Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-17T17:28:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:29:50Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-17T17:31:08Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:33:02Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T17:33:43Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:41:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-17T17:41:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:44:56Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:49:57Z frgo: phoe: Yeah. But but but  ... How to get that into foreign memory "easily"...
2020-07-17T17:50:32Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:54:57Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T17:57:35Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T17:58:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T17:59:38Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-17T18:03:24Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:03:46Z phoe: frgo: mmap it and memcpy?
2020-07-17T18:04:51Z frgo: phoe: Hmpf - yup. You are right - it's the simple things that sometimes are hard to find ... Thanks!
2020-07-17T18:07:02Z brown121407 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T18:07:54Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T18:12:06Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-17T18:12:11Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T18:12:20Z choegusung joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:13:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:18:11Z technobean quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-17T18:21:06Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-17T18:22:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:24:58Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T18:26:36Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:30:50Z choegusung quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-17T18:31:16Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-17T18:32:07Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T18:32:21Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:32:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:32:51Z Krystof joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:34:06Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-17T18:38:21Z RagnarDanneskjol quit
2020-07-17T18:38:33Z RagnarDanneskjol joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:39:38Z Josh_2: Do we have a 'seen' command in here?
2020-07-17T18:40:31Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T18:40:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:46:44Z makomo quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-17T18:48:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T18:48:55Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T18:49:28Z aeth: I think minion has a seen command? iirc
2020-07-17T18:49:42Z aeth: Josh_2: I usually just use this though: https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp
2020-07-17T18:50:17Z aeth: you can search "written by" and keep expanding the time interval until the person you are looking for has spoken, but keep in mind that it's rate limited to a very noticable length, maybe 5-10 seconds... https://irclog.tymoon.eu/search?channel=freenode%2F%23lisp
2020-07-17T18:50:49Z aeth: There's no all-channel search, though, so a bot has the advantage that it might have seen someone on another channel who hasn't spoken here recently.
2020-07-17T18:57:16Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-17T18:58:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T18:59:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:00:22Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T19:01:38Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:04:25Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:04:46Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:07:25Z Josh_2: pjb hasn't been around for a while
2020-07-17T19:07:29Z Josh_2: or did he change his name?
2020-07-17T19:07:55Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:08:02Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:09:49Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-17T19:10:44Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T19:11:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:16:33Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T19:19:42Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T19:21:07Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:21:14Z aeth: pjb was online recently, but hasn't said anything
2020-07-17T19:21:58Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:28:55Z karayan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T19:29:26Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T19:30:07Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-17T19:30:08Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:32:17Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:37:55Z karayan joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:44:32Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T19:44:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:45:15Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:46:28Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:46:33Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:50:50Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T19:51:44Z simon108 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:53:27Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T19:54:36Z Josh_2: aeth: okay sweet
2020-07-17T19:57:29Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-17T19:59:13Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-17T20:01:24Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T20:01:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:04:07Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-17T20:08:30Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-17T20:10:44Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:11:26Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-17T20:12:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:20:57Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T20:21:26Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:24:45Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-17T20:27:01Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:30:07Z hipete joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:30:18Z hipete left #lisp
2020-07-17T20:31:34Z avalos quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T20:33:15Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:39:13Z mgsk quit
2020-07-17T20:39:30Z mgsk joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:39:42Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:42:32Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T20:46:21Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-17T20:48:15Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:48:36Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:53:18Z seok: how do I call a function with variables in a list?
2020-07-17T20:53:27Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-17T20:53:36Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T20:56:02Z ebrasca: seok: Can you explain more what do you whant?
2020-07-17T20:56:37Z jackdaniel: (apply function arg-list)
2020-07-17T20:56:58Z Josh_2: Did Ravenpack fill that junior position in Marbella?
2020-07-17T21:01:12Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T21:01:32Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T21:03:55Z Gnuxie[m]: Josh_2: pjb got banned i think
2020-07-17T21:07:16Z avalos joined #lisp
2020-07-17T21:07:17Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T21:09:46Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-17T21:10:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T21:10:22Z jackdaniel: he got unbanned few days later
2020-07-17T21:13:45Z mercourisj joined #lisp
2020-07-17T21:14:28Z younder joined #lisp
2020-07-17T21:15:02Z Josh_2: banned in here??
2020-07-17T21:15:24Z younder: not for the moment
2020-07-17T21:15:29Z simon108 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-17T21:16:29Z younder: Truth be told I write drone software these days. Hardly any Lisp. I just hang around for old times sake.
2020-07-17T21:16:40Z Josh_2: write drone software in Lisp :P
2020-07-17T21:18:22Z mercourisj: anyone know of any Lisp applications for photo management?
2020-07-17T21:18:35Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T21:22:09Z Josh_2: i'm looking back at some of the code I wrote over a year and trying to fix it up, It's dreadful oof
2020-07-17T21:22:13Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T21:22:43Z younder: The easiest way is use a shell language interface like the one provided by imagemagic. Shell out to that and it should provide what you need.
2020-07-17T21:22:48Z mercourisj: that's good news Josh_2
2020-07-17T21:22:50Z mercourisj: that means you are growing
2020-07-17T21:23:02Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-17T21:23:13Z mercourisj: I'm talking about photo library management, browsing, viewing, sorting, etc
2020-07-17T21:24:11Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T21:24:11Z younder confesses to mosty use imagemagic from PHP..
2020-07-17T21:25:20Z mercourisj: maybe a good candidate for a CLIM application
2020-07-17T21:25:24Z mercourisj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T21:26:05Z younder: Image processing is a lot of work.. Hope you have a lot of friends ;)
2020-07-17T21:26:36Z younder: A frontend to OpenCV  might be a start.
2020-07-17T21:27:45Z torbo: What's the best way to parse a string representation of a rational number (i.e. "3/4") into a rational number in CL?
2020-07-17T21:28:51Z younder: read
2020-07-17T21:29:02Z Bike: easiest is READ but it'll do bad things on malformed input. you could use POSITION to get the solidus, and then PARSE-INTEGER both sides.
2020-07-17T21:30:37Z torbo: Great, thank you both!
2020-07-17T21:31:06Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T21:34:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T21:35:21Z yonkunas quit
2020-07-17T21:35:37Z yonkunas joined #lisp
2020-07-17T21:41:47Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-17T21:42:08Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-17T21:43:42Z jasom: there is also the library parse-number
2020-07-17T21:46:12Z younder: Bike is a PhD. He writes robust code for industrial applications. I am guessing turbo isn't there yet.
2020-07-17T21:46:23Z Bike: what the hell?
2020-07-17T21:48:33Z younder: Bike a was a peripheral developer on you compiler
2020-07-17T21:48:57Z younder: ^ O
2020-07-17T21:49:04Z younder: ^ I
2020-07-17T21:49:09Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-17T21:50:16Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T21:51:23Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T21:56:02Z aeth: here? I remember pjb being banned from #scheme for a short while for only being there to promote CL... that might be what you're thinking of.
2020-07-17T21:58:38Z Bike: as jackdaniel said, already, less than an hour ago, he was banned from here for a few days
2020-07-17T21:58:38Z scymtym: i think people are referring to this: https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp?around=1592014365#1592014365
2020-07-17T22:03:04Z younder left #lisp
2020-07-17T22:03:11Z younder joined #lisp
2020-07-17T22:03:58Z avalos quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T22:04:36Z younder: I don't know by I have not been here. Left andforgotten and mostly irrelevant. If I say someting that sounds like misinformation, please let me know.
2020-07-17T22:07:19Z jason_m quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T22:12:16Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-17T22:12:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T22:13:30Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T22:14:20Z younder quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-17T22:15:02Z younder joined #lisp
2020-07-17T22:17:43Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T22:20:23Z Josh_2: seems like a petty ban
2020-07-17T22:20:56Z Josh_2: This community is pretty small, last thing needed is isolating individuals over petty stuff like being abrasive
2020-07-17T22:22:30Z White_Flame: there's a difference between being abrasive and being intentionally obtuse, screaming that everybody's correct and applicable answers are absolutely wrong in expletive laden screeds
2020-07-17T22:23:27Z Josh_2: Hey, that's just pjb xD
2020-07-17T22:23:37Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-17T22:24:05Z Josh_2: I started here when I was basically 100% new to programming and I got that impression from him pretty early, I still appreciate the walls of text to this day
2020-07-17T22:26:34Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-17T22:27:14Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T22:28:56Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-17T22:30:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-17T22:35:02Z sz0 joined #lisp
2020-07-17T22:35:38Z younder: White_Flame, sounds like a bot
2020-07-17T22:38:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T22:41:41Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T22:51:39Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-17T22:52:11Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-17T22:52:57Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-17T23:02:01Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-17T23:07:53Z dlowe: It's *more* important in a small community to boot people who spread bullshit.
2020-07-17T23:08:20Z johntalent joined #lisp
2020-07-17T23:08:31Z jesse1010 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-17T23:11:54Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-17T23:20:01Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-17T23:20:18Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-17T23:23:08Z stylewarning: dlowe: CL:BULLSHIT isn’t a part of ANSI Common Lisp. *DEFAULT-BULLSHIT-DEFAULTS* may have bullshit or other components of bullshit, though.
2020-07-17T23:23:22Z aeth: pjb gives particularly bad advice on IRC when the question is about the type system ime... His advice is consistently to never check types and just let things fail at the point where they fail, but ime that just leads to a random NIL showing up 20 functions away from where it was generated and a waste of a day.
2020-07-17T23:23:49Z torbo: jasom: Thanks!
2020-07-17T23:29:18Z libertyprime quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-17T23:29:52Z johntalent: How would it be possible to use ABCL with The Godot Game Engine?
2020-07-17T23:30:29Z aeth: ABCL is Java-based and not very popular, at least on IRC, so you would probably have better odds with ECL, which is designed to be embedded in C applications.
2020-07-17T23:34:20Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-17T23:35:54Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-17T23:37:46Z aeth: johntalent: It looks like all other (not GDScript, VisualScript, or C#) languages are supposed to interface through the GDNative C++ bindings. https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/getting_started/step_by_step/scripting.html#gdnative-c
2020-07-17T23:38:08Z aeth: ECL or even Clasp (the latter is a work-in-progress) seems like it would be a lot less painful than trying to bring in the entirety of the Java environment
2020-07-17T23:38:50Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-17T23:39:56Z aeth: johntalent: I found one result: https://github.com/borodust/bodge-godot
2020-07-17T23:55:56Z borodust: aeth johntalent: i guess i need to add a warning there or smth - those bindings are highly experimental - i never used them it was just an experiment to see how hard it would be to generate bindings for godot
2020-07-17T23:56:16Z borodust: it was easy to, but i didn't go any further, so those might actually not work ;p
2020-07-18T00:01:30Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-18T00:03:57Z borodust: once i'm done with c++ support in :claw i might get back and actually try them out :)
2020-07-18T00:04:53Z borodust: hopefully, that doesn't mean never, cuz i'm 95% done implementing it and only need to finish the other 95%
2020-07-18T00:07:10Z johntalent: aeth: wow.
2020-07-18T00:07:20Z johntalent: aeth: looks good thanks. somewhat recent too.
2020-07-18T00:08:35Z johntalent: thanks borodust
2020-07-18T00:08:38Z johntalent: thank you aeth.
2020-07-18T00:08:57Z johntalent quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-18T00:10:13Z borodust: i hope that wasn't about my bindings to godot api...
2020-07-18T00:10:51Z borodust: but i've added a warning so it should be alright now :/
2020-07-18T00:16:14Z aindilis quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T00:16:59Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T00:20:05Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-18T00:25:29Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T00:27:04Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-18T00:28:52Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T00:43:25Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-18T00:44:40Z toorevitimirp quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-18T00:50:43Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-18T00:56:21Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T00:58:26Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T01:13:32Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-18T01:13:54Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T01:18:24Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-18T01:25:22Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-18T01:29:04Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T01:29:54Z zooey joined #lisp
2020-07-18T01:44:53Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T01:47:58Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T01:54:49Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-18T01:57:19Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T02:01:49Z Misha_B joined #lisp
2020-07-18T02:04:25Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T02:04:43Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-18T02:15:10Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T02:31:35Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-18T02:37:22Z elosant joined #lisp
2020-07-18T02:41:07Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-18T02:44:44Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T02:51:51Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-18T02:53:00Z elosant quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-18T02:55:20Z Jeanne-Kamikaze joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:00:07Z elosant joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:01:06Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T03:02:16Z elosant quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-18T03:02:29Z elosant joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:04:01Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T03:06:45Z zooey quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-18T03:06:59Z zooey joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:11:55Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-18T03:12:07Z justache quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T03:12:37Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:13:36Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:16:06Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:28:42Z not_a_seagull joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:28:49Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:31:12Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T03:32:53Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:32:55Z elosant quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-18T03:32:57Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T03:35:03Z not_a_seagull: I'm very, very new to Lisp. What does "The function has an odd number of arguments in the keyword portion" mean?
2020-07-18T03:35:13Z not_a_seagull: There are not an odd number of arguments to my keyword setup.
2020-07-18T03:35:44Z beach: Show the call to the function.
2020-07-18T03:36:13Z beach: It means your function looks somewhat like this: (defun foo (x y &key a b...) ...)
2020-07-18T03:36:30Z beach: So it takes two required arguments and then a bunch of keyword arguments.
2020-07-18T03:36:47Z not_a_seagull: https://gist.github.com/not-a-seagull/76a4e7468494efe8be4a1cf75724a140
2020-07-18T03:36:56Z beach: So in this case, a call looks like (foo <x> <y> :a <a> :b <b> ...)
2020-07-18T03:37:50Z beach: Since I don't know ltk, you also need to tell me the lambda list of MAKE-CANVAS.
2020-07-18T03:38:14Z beach: It looks like there must be a required argument missing.
2020-07-18T03:38:26Z not_a_seagull: Idk. I don't know LTK either.
2020-07-18T03:38:39Z beach: So why are you using it?
2020-07-18T03:39:00Z not_a_seagull: It's the first GUI library I found, and it uses TK
2020-07-18T03:39:06Z not_a_seagull: What else should I use?
2020-07-18T03:39:42Z physpi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T03:39:52Z fowlduck quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T03:39:58Z beach: I think it is a horrible idea to use a foreign library if you are a Common Lisp newbie.  You are going to run into all kinds of trouble.  In fact, it's a bad idea to start learning Common Lisp by attempting a GUI application.
2020-07-18T03:40:18Z beach: However, since you are using it...
2020-07-18T03:40:48Z physpi joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:41:03Z beach: You made a call (ltk:make-canvas ..).  You must have seen somewhere the definition of the function make-canvas, or you would not have typed that code.  No?
2020-07-18T03:41:13Z fowlduck joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:41:32Z not_a_seagull: Well, I tried to use "make-instance" because that's what all the documentation I could find says to use
2020-07-18T03:41:41Z not_a_seagull: But it turns out "make-instance" doesn't exist anymore
2020-07-18T03:41:43Z aaaaaa quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-18T03:41:55Z not_a_seagull: So I look in the source code
2020-07-18T03:42:02Z not_a_seagull: And I see that "make-canvas" is exported
2020-07-18T03:42:09Z beach: MAKE-INSTANCE is a standard Common Lisp function, so it won't go away.
2020-07-18T03:42:21Z not_a_seagull: Oh, it's not an LTK thing?
2020-07-18T03:42:34Z beach: Again, it is a horrible idea to learn Common Lisp this way.
2020-07-18T03:43:20Z not_a_seagull: Yeah that seems to work. Thank you for your help.
2020-07-18T03:43:40Z beach: Using a GUI library, and especially one based on foreign code, is going to require some knowledge about the language itself.
2020-07-18T03:44:52Z Oladon: not_a_seagull: before you continue to reject beach's wise advice, consider well that by doing so you're essentially concluding that somehow, you know better than a veteran Lisper what is and is not a good way to learn Lisp.
2020-07-18T03:45:16Z Oladon: not_a_seagull: I recommend picking up a copy of the book Land of Lisp, and starting with that, and _then_ attempting your GUI application.
2020-07-18T03:45:19Z kleptoflora quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T03:45:38Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-18T03:46:04Z not_a_seagull: Oladon: alright, I guess I'm being rash. I've been looking through Pratical Common Lisp, is that a good book?
2020-07-18T03:46:28Z Oladon: not_a_seagull: It is, but in my opinion it's not as good for beginners to the language as Land of Lisp is.
2020-07-18T03:46:35Z Oladon: beach: How long've you been practicing Lisp?
2020-07-18T03:47:05Z Oladon: not_a_seagull: Also Land of Lisp was written by a genius and has cartoons
2020-07-18T03:47:10Z beach: Oladon: Let's see, since 1977 or so.
2020-07-18T03:47:28Z Oladon: not_a_seagull: Cough cough ^
2020-07-18T03:48:14Z not_a_seagull: Alright, I'll put a bookmark in Practical Common Lisp and pick up Land of Lisp.
2020-07-18T03:48:26Z Oladon: (On a side note, show me another language that anyone actually still enjoys after that long...)
2020-07-18T03:49:39Z not_a_seagull: Fortran?
2020-07-18T03:49:40Z beach: I recently watched an animated video on YouTube showing the evolution in popularity of different programming languages.  It was amusing.  I mean the definition of "popularity" is probably bogus.
2020-07-18T03:49:57Z beach: But the interesting part was how languages come and go.
2020-07-18T03:50:01Z Oladon: beach: It's generally considered on such a short scale, nods
2020-07-18T03:50:08Z Oladon: I guess it has to be because of that fact
2020-07-18T03:50:16Z beach: Like Ruby was SO HOT just a few years back and now it seems dead.
2020-07-18T03:50:19Z Oladon: Yep
2020-07-18T03:50:44Z not_a_seagull: I haven't been programming for long but I remember ASP.NET from a while back.
2020-07-18T03:50:46Z Oladon: I still get candidates whose entire coding experience (of 3-5 years) is in Ruby... not interested.
2020-07-18T03:50:54Z not_a_seagull: Now it's mostly replaced by Blazor IIRC
2020-07-18T03:51:29Z beach: not_a_seagull: Also note that there is #clschool for truly basic Common Lisp questions.
2020-07-18T03:51:30Z Oladon: beach: I laughed to myself as I typed the initial parenthetical because 90% of languages with "known" names nowadays weren't even _around_ in '77.
2020-07-18T03:51:42Z not_a_seagull: beach: thank you, I'll keep that in mind
2020-07-18T03:51:54Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T03:52:25Z beach: Oladon: Yeah, people go to a lot of trouble to avoid learning Common Lisp.  In particular, they keep inventing new languages that don't even come close.
2020-07-18T03:52:30Z Oladon: Indeed.
2020-07-18T03:53:16Z not_a_seagull: That's why I'm coming to Lisp, to be honest. I feel like it's something I should've learned when I first started.
2020-07-18T03:53:31Z beach: That, I agree with.  But it is never too late.
2020-07-18T03:53:58Z Oladon: Or they "invent" this Great New Feature and release a new version of their language of choice (because their language of choice requires releasing a new version to add a feature...)... and the Lispers are like "?? We've had that since '59..."
2020-07-18T03:54:28Z beach: Exactly!
2020-07-18T03:55:04Z beach: Plus, we don't need a new release to add new syntax.  We have macros and we have the compiler available at run-time.
2020-07-18T03:55:15Z Oladon: Right, that was the ellipsis there :)
2020-07-18T03:55:23Z beach: Ah, OK.
2020-07-18T03:55:45Z not_a_seagull: I read in practical lisp that the first iteration of object orientation was a library rather than a compiler update
2020-07-18T03:56:07Z beach: Correct.
2020-07-18T03:56:19Z beach: And the compiler is still not much involved in the object system.
2020-07-18T03:56:31Z Oladon: not_a_seagull: Which reminds me... as you begin to discover Lisp, you'll run into library repositories that haven't been updated in 8-10 years. Be not afraid; they're probably just done and don't need updates.
2020-07-18T03:57:13Z not_a_seagull: Oladon: I've seen a couple. I figure that, if anything isn't modern enough, it shouldn't be excruciatingly hard to do a pull request or fork.
2020-07-18T03:57:19Z Oladon: Heh.
2020-07-18T03:57:28Z Oladon: There's very little "aging" in Lisp code the way you're used to.
2020-07-18T03:57:48Z not_a_seagull: How often does lisp code really age?
2020-07-18T03:57:59Z Oladon: Core Lisp? Basically never.
2020-07-18T03:58:01Z beach: not_a_seagull: The Common Lisp Object System is a wonderful example of software design, and a wonderful example of what Common Lisp can do.
2020-07-18T03:58:30Z Oladon: nodnod
2020-07-18T03:58:39Z Oladon: I'm in awe of the CLOS.
2020-07-18T03:58:56Z not_a_seagull: That's cool. I have JS code from six months ago that's already considered aged.
2020-07-18T03:59:03Z Oladon: That's what I mean. :)
2020-07-18T04:00:37Z not_a_seagull: That being said, are there any considerations I should keep in mind when using packages from quicklisp?
2020-07-18T04:00:58Z Oladon: Not really; Xach does an excellent job weeding out anything that doesn't build.
2020-07-18T04:01:44Z not_a_seagull: Nice
2020-07-18T04:01:45Z Oladon: Quicklisp != npm
2020-07-18T04:02:24Z beach: Oladon: Do you mean (/= Quicklisp npm)? :)
2020-07-18T04:02:35Z not_a_seagull: ha3
2020-07-18T04:02:51Z Oladon kowtows in apology
2020-07-18T04:03:48Z not_a_seagull: I mostly say because I've been dabbling in Rust for the past few months, and sometimes there will be a package that has security vulnerabilities
2020-07-18T04:05:34Z avalos` joined #lisp
2020-07-18T04:05:54Z beach: Common Lisp code could certainly contain malware, but I think it would be discovered fairly quickly, and then Xach would remove it from Quicklisp.
2020-07-18T04:06:20Z not_a_seagull: Cool beans
2020-07-18T04:07:51Z beach: Standard Common Lisp code can not have security vulnerabilities of the kind you get in low-level languages like C, but it is certainly possible for some library code to alter the code generator of the compiler by using some implementation-specific functionality.
2020-07-18T04:08:21Z avalos`: Why cannot?
2020-07-18T04:08:32Z beach: Well, "can not" is a bit too strong I guess.  If you use (safety 0) it is up to the implementation.
2020-07-18T04:09:24Z not_a_seagull: Lisp has a safety check? rad
2020-07-18T04:09:34Z beach: avalos`: Common Lisp code does not have access to arbitrary addresses, and that includes the stack.
2020-07-18T04:09:56Z xrash quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T04:10:37Z avalos`: Yeah, but I think that "sandboxing" can be cracked somehow.
2020-07-18T04:11:12Z avalos`: Just like Meltdown and Spectre were not thought to even be possible.
2020-07-18T04:11:30Z xristos: there is no sandbox in CL
2020-07-18T04:11:38Z beach: not_a_seagull: The standard is actually pretty fuzzy about stuff like that.  Many situations represent undefined behavior.  Luckily, all major implementations are safe when the SAFETY optimize quality is high.
2020-07-18T04:11:56Z xristos: if you evaluate 3rd party Lisp code, it's game over
2020-07-18T04:12:15Z avalos`: xristos: That's why I used "quotes", because not having access to memory can be a way of sandboxing.
2020-07-18T04:12:27Z xristos: and you can have memory corruption in CL, with full safety
2020-07-18T04:12:37Z xristos: if you use foreign functions
2020-07-18T04:12:39Z avalos`: xristos: Exactly!
2020-07-18T04:12:55Z beach: ... or if you modify the code generator of the compiler.
2020-07-18T04:13:16Z beach: That is one reason I invented first-class global environments.
2020-07-18T04:13:31Z avalos`: Are standard CL implementations interpreted?
2020-07-18T04:13:43Z beach: avalos`: Not the modern ones, no.
2020-07-18T04:13:59Z not_a_seagull: Doesn't SBCL compile down to machine code?
2020-07-18T04:14:03Z beach: Yes.
2020-07-18T04:14:06Z avalos`: Oh.
2020-07-18T04:14:35Z avalos`: Well, then it depends on how secure is the generated code, I guess.
2020-07-18T04:14:37Z beach: avalos`: There is a tendency to confuse "interactive" and "interpreted".
2020-07-18T04:15:11Z not_a_seagull: Is SBCL like PyPy where it only compiles after the function is run a certain number of times?
2020-07-18T04:15:15Z beach: People with insufficient CS knowledge who see an interactive programming system often assume that it is interpreted.
2020-07-18T04:15:17Z avalos`: beach: It's a bit confusing how "interactive" works without "interpreted", though, at least to me.
2020-07-18T04:15:31Z avalos`: beach: But I'm aware about the differences.
2020-07-18T04:15:50Z beach: avalos`: The code is compiled on the fly and then executed.  That's all there is to it.
2020-07-18T04:15:58Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-18T04:16:00Z xristos: it's not like PyPy (JIT), SBCL does ahead-of-time compilation
2020-07-18T04:16:05Z avalos`: JIT.
2020-07-18T04:16:19Z not_a_seagull: Oh it compiles on the fly? Cool.
2020-07-18T04:16:22Z avalos`: xristos: Oh.
2020-07-18T04:17:11Z xristos: you could have a CL implementation use a JIT compiler (clisp?)
2020-07-18T04:17:25Z xristos: but SBCL (and CCL) are AOT compilers
2020-07-18T04:18:00Z beach: But since a typical Common Lisp implementation, including SBCL, gives the user full access to the code, it is perfectly possible for some user code to modify the code generator, and then the code is obviously no longer safe.
2020-07-18T04:18:08Z avalos`: So, then, yeah, how secure a CL program is can be up to the impl, probably.
2020-07-18T04:18:31Z not_a_seagull: Is SBCL reasonably secure?
2020-07-18T04:18:34Z xristos: .. and -mainly- the program itself
2020-07-18T04:18:39Z avalos`: I don't think it's perfect.
2020-07-18T04:18:41Z avalos`: Nothing is perfect.
2020-07-18T04:18:44Z avalos`: It depends.
2020-07-18T04:18:48Z xristos: SBCL won't save you if you manually manage foreign memory
2020-07-18T04:18:58Z xristos: you can still have race conditions
2020-07-18T04:19:09Z xristos: you can still have all sorts of filesystem and permission issues
2020-07-18T04:19:22Z avalos`: Yeah, that's what I mean.
2020-07-18T04:20:03Z xristos: does it make it easier to avoid certain classes of security issues? yes
2020-07-18T04:20:11Z beach: not_a_seagull: It does a lot of run-time checks, so you get pretty good feedback when you make mistakes.  So in that respect it is pretty secure.  But, again, if you load arbitrary external code, all bets are off.
2020-07-18T04:20:29Z avalos`: xristos: Yeah, that's for sure.
2020-07-18T04:20:36Z not_a_seagull: I see
2020-07-18T04:20:43Z not_a_seagull: It's like that one google engineer said
2020-07-18T04:20:48Z avalos`: beach: Is it similar to Rust?
2020-07-18T04:20:51Z not_a_seagull: "The minute you load an attacker's code, it's over"
2020-07-18T04:21:13Z beach: avalos`: I don't see any similarities between Common Lisp and Rust.
2020-07-18T04:21:36Z avalos`: I mean, the run-time checks.
2020-07-18T04:21:40Z akoana quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-18T04:21:44Z not_a_seagull: Doesn't Rust do compile-time checks?
2020-07-18T04:21:53Z avalos`: Yes.
2020-07-18T04:22:03Z avalos`: A lot.
2020-07-18T04:22:45Z avalos`: I've tried Rust only few times, but the compiler is indeed strict.
2020-07-18T04:22:51Z beach: avalos`: The semantics of Common Lisp include dynamic typing, so there is a limit to how much can be verified at compile time.
2020-07-18T04:23:52Z avalos`: That's a trade off for flexibility, but still, I imagine it has tools to avoid some sort of mistakes.
2020-07-18T04:24:40Z avalos`: I know little about CL, I haven't even used it, but I've learned a lot of Scheme, which shares a lot of concepts with CL.
2020-07-18T04:24:41Z beach: Again, I don't see many similarities between Common Lisp and Rust.  In fact, Rust seems to be based on the false idea that garbage collection must be slower than manual memory management.  At last according to an important member of the group that manages the Rust specification.
2020-07-18T04:25:18Z avalos`: beach: Well, it can be. It depends.
2020-07-18T04:26:07Z avalos`: Sometimes, manual memory management can give you a lot of performance.
2020-07-18T04:26:20Z not_a_seagull quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2020-07-18T04:26:53Z avalos`: Garbage collection works for most stuff, but still, there are cases where you want more control over memory and extra efficiency.
2020-07-18T04:27:40Z avalos`: The Linux kernel was never really rewritten in C++, because of those reasons.
2020-07-18T04:28:46Z avalos`: Well, C++ is not garbage collected (afaik), but still, it does a lot of things behind the curtains.
2020-07-18T04:28:59Z beach: And Lisp, on the other hand, was based on what Paul Wilson later characterized as "liveness is a global property", so that it is essentially impossible to write a correct program with manual memory management, that is both modular and fast.  Now, granted, you don't always need modularity and you don't always need performance.
2020-07-18T04:29:47Z avalos`: Interesting.
2020-07-18T04:30:19Z avalos`: But still, I think it depends on what you mean by "manual".
2020-07-18T04:30:41Z avalos`: And what you mean by "modularity" and "performance".
2020-07-18T04:30:49Z beach: To make modularity possible, people using languages with manual memory management often introduce things like smart pointers or reference counters.  And then they take a factor 50 or more performance hit compared to garbage collection.
2020-07-18T04:32:04Z beach: avalos`: I mean if you pass an object to a module, modularity dictates that you shouldn't need to know whether that module keeps a reference to your object, so that it is still alive, or whether it does not, so you need to deallocate the space taken up by it.
2020-07-18T04:32:20Z avalos`: Good point.
2020-07-18T04:32:23Z beach: So you have two choices...
2020-07-18T04:32:39Z beach: 1. Know what the module does internally, so your code is no longer modular.
2020-07-18T04:32:59Z beach: 2. Copy the object, or use reference counters.  Then your code is no longer fast.
2020-07-18T04:34:11Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T04:35:27Z avalos`: What if you don't need too many checks? Garbage collection can be a bit too much, especially when you perform expensive IO operation or else.
2020-07-18T04:35:47Z beach: That is a case when modularity is not so much needed.
2020-07-18T04:36:20Z avalos`: True.
2020-07-18T04:36:45Z beach: But people using languages without automatic memory management often believe that their code is fast, just because the compiler is "known to produce fast code".  But then they ruin the performance by replacing a register move by a function call, a test, and several memory accesses.
2020-07-18T04:37:38Z beach: However, since they never compare the performance of their code to a similar code written in a language with automatic memory management, they feel safe in their belief that their code is fast.
2020-07-18T04:41:17Z xristos: note that you have the option for manual memory management (with some constraints) in CL
2020-07-18T04:41:37Z beach: So we have huge amounts of code written by hordes of programmers who think that "we need all the speed we can get", but that code is not particularly fast in the first place.  Plus, they took an order of magnitude more time to produce that code, and the result is full of security vulnerabilities.  That's the sad state of software production these days.
2020-07-18T04:45:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T04:47:02Z Jeanne-Kamikaze quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T04:47:48Z markasoftware: I'm today learning about format's conditionals and loops, it's pretty crazy
2020-07-18T04:47:59Z markasoftware: i wish the same people who designed (format) got to design regex
2020-07-18T04:54:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T04:56:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-18T04:56:16Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-18T05:02:17Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-18T05:04:39Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-18T05:07:16Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T05:16:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-18T05:22:34Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-18T05:26:32Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T05:29:53Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T05:30:13Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-18T05:30:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-18T05:41:57Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-18T05:47:40Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-18T05:52:54Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-18T05:53:46Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:06:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T06:06:59Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T06:08:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:11:17Z kmeow quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T06:11:49Z kmeow joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:15:18Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T06:29:29Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:31:36Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T06:39:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T06:39:25Z paulbarrett joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:40:40Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:41:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:43:20Z rabbit_05 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:44:32Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:44:51Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:45:08Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:45:59Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:46:46Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:50:28Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-18T06:51:04Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:51:06Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T06:52:21Z younder quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T06:58:09Z MichaelRaskin joined #lisp
2020-07-18T06:58:35Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T07:04:25Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T07:05:11Z zooey joined #lisp
2020-07-18T07:11:12Z glamas quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.4 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-18T07:11:27Z phoe: oh boy
2020-07-18T07:11:37Z beach: Hey phoe.
2020-07-18T07:11:45Z phoe: vseloved's Programming Algorithms book will also get an Apress edition
2020-07-18T07:11:48Z phoe: hey beach
2020-07-18T07:12:22Z beach: Nice!  That one still needs a lot of work.
2020-07-18T07:12:28Z beach: I gave up after a while.
2020-07-18T07:13:05Z h11 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-18T07:13:30Z h11 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T07:14:58Z glamas joined #lisp
2020-07-18T07:15:39Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-18T07:18:36Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T07:18:42Z phoe: you might want to contact vseloved in order to be a technical reviewer for it
2020-07-18T07:19:15Z phoe: I know too little about algorithms to be able to make any sane reviews
2020-07-18T07:19:40Z avalos` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T07:20:14Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T07:23:37Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T07:23:52Z beach: I don't think I will.  Too many times he disagreed with my remarks and didn't take them into account.  Plus, a lot of the problem are still related to the English language.
2020-07-18T07:24:08Z beach: The algorithms themselves are probably fine.
2020-07-18T07:24:14Z beach: He's the expert after all.
2020-07-18T07:24:24Z phoe: I see
2020-07-18T07:24:37Z contrapunctus: beach, xristos: re: this performance paradox, is there any writeup which explores this phenomenon in detail?
2020-07-18T07:24:40Z beach: But the code and the text both need a lot of work to be acceptable, and he basically doesn't agree.
2020-07-18T07:24:49Z glamas quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-18T07:24:55Z beach: contrapunctus: I don't think so, no.
2020-07-18T07:25:32Z h11 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T07:25:57Z beach: contrapunctus: There is very little work done in the domain of comparison between programming languages.  And for good reasons.  The cost of such an investigation would be huge, if it is to be scientifically valid.
2020-07-18T07:26:11Z contrapunctus: It'd be nice to have something of the sort, to make an attempt to educate people. Many may not know about the manual memory management in CL, either, which would be a welcome addition to such a writeup.
2020-07-18T07:27:48Z beach: People just won't believe you unless you can point to hard evidence, and maybe not even then.  The manual memory management in Common Lisp would be highly specific to an implementation.
2020-07-18T07:28:58Z contrapunctus: The other day someone (who had written some CL packages and programs) mentioned not having used CL for ages, and using C++ instead, because they weren't satisfied with the performance in the case of games.
2020-07-18T07:29:07Z beach: I mean, every C++ programmer who were to read the paper by Hudak and Jones, would instantly convert to Haskell if they believed it.
2020-07-18T07:29:25Z contrapunctus: (Which makes me wonder if they knew what you speak of.)
2020-07-18T07:29:27Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-18T07:30:40Z beach: Performance is not so much a language issue as it is an implementation issue.  But there is also the problem that most people do not understand that code that looks similar in two different languages have different semantics.
2020-07-18T07:31:05Z paulbarrett quit (Quit: paulbarrett)
2020-07-18T07:31:06Z glamas joined #lisp
2020-07-18T07:31:24Z beach: So if you translate (say) addition from C++ to Common Lisp, and you don't realize that C++ implements modulo arithmetic and Common Lisp has bignums, then you may very well get it wrong.
2020-07-18T07:33:05Z beach: In other words, if you compare a safe and slow program to an unsafe and fast one in a different language, you are comparing apples and oranges.
2020-07-18T07:33:46Z beach: And, again, if you don't care about modularity, you might get faster code with manual memory management.  My impression is that game development falls into that category.
2020-07-18T07:37:21Z beach: Another factor is that most existing Common Lisp implementations were implemented several decades ago, and are probably still not using techniques for memory management that were invented since then.  So, if you take a Common Lisp implementation with a stop-the-world garbage collector you are not going to see good real-time performance for example.
2020-07-18T07:37:55Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-18T07:38:30Z contrapunctus: Yow.
2020-07-18T07:41:09Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T07:44:35Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-18T08:04:25Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-18T08:05:52Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:06:42Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T08:07:45Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:11:18Z jackdaniel: programming tao 15: performance is not a trait of the language but the implementation.. but don't expect python to be fast
2020-07-18T08:14:13Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:14:30Z iissaacc: sup my gs
2020-07-18T08:14:55Z beach: ?
2020-07-18T08:16:27Z iissaacc: its a greeting my g
2020-07-18T08:17:15Z beach: May I suggest you do M-x set-global-abbrev<RET>gs<RET>whatever gs means<RET>
2020-07-18T08:18:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:27:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T08:28:23Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T08:28:23Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:30:36Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:36:03Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T08:36:59Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:37:21Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:40:54Z rabbit_05 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T08:42:06Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:47:17Z eta: beach, :D
2020-07-18T08:47:45Z eta: beach, have you considered writing some elisp to query Urban Dictionary
2020-07-18T08:48:33Z beach: After considering for a few seconds, I decided against it.
2020-07-18T08:50:18Z flip214: phoe: jackdaniel: sure, just make a MR. Although "collect" as a name might conflict with LOOP and ITERATE, so is there an alternative?
2020-07-18T08:50:43Z beach: Using silly abbreviations like that shows one or more of several things: 1. Your typing skills are not that great. 2.  You don't master your tools, in particular not your abbrev processor.  3. You assume that everybody has read up on the urban dictionary.
2020-07-18T08:51:06Z phoe: flip214: it won't really conflict with LOOP
2020-07-18T08:51:18Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-18T08:51:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:51:38Z flip214: I guess that's a list with an end pointer for efficient appending... is there something to clear the list in-between, or to append multiple values at once? (like Perl's PUSH ARRAY, ELEMENTS...)
2020-07-18T08:52:19Z jackdaniel: flip214: collect macro (as defined in cmucl) allows supplying your own collectors
2020-07-18T08:52:33Z jackdaniel: so in principle it is possible to manipulate any object
2020-07-18T08:52:59Z beach: I hate it that SLIME ruins my Emacs tags-search command by hijacking M-.
2020-07-18T08:52:59Z jackdaniel: and adding multiple elements is supported if the collector operator supports multiple arguments (in case of default list collector it does)
2020-07-18T08:53:09Z flip214: well, yeah, I needed something like that in the past, so I definitely can see the use case
2020-07-18T08:53:47Z jackdaniel: one drawback, as note by lukego, is that the collector binding is not a function - it is a macro
2020-07-18T08:53:58Z jackdaniel: s/note/noted/
2020-07-18T08:54:38Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T08:54:49Z lukego: beach: Emacs should really have some framework for combining multiple tags-like things. I wonder if it does these days? I'm still getting my head around all the new stuff like company/ivy/helm (can't even remember which is which yet...)
2020-07-18T08:55:20Z beach: Sure, that would be good.
2020-07-18T08:55:25Z jackdaniel: flip214: another useful utility from cmu utilities is with-clean-symbols
2020-07-18T08:55:40Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-18T08:56:17Z jackdaniel: which is kind-of like gensym, but instead of creating variable with a gensymed symbol, it replaces all occurances of the symbol in the body with a gensym
2020-07-18T08:57:19Z jackdaniel: i.e (with-clean-symbols (foo) (test (defclass foo () ()) (make-instance 'foo)))) ;-> each execution of this block will define a class of a different name
2020-07-18T08:57:31Z lukego: beach: I wonder if abbrevs would be a good solution for typing a lambda character. I've been a nerd and defined unicode lambda as a macro for LAMBDA but haven't solved the easy inputting problem yet.
2020-07-18T08:57:59Z beach: That would certainly work.
2020-07-18T08:58:54Z beach: I use it for correcting some recurring typos I make.  Like my fingers seem unable to type "the".  They always come up with "teh" instead.  So I use abbrevs to correct.
2020-07-18T08:59:26Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T08:59:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:01:25Z flip214: jackdaniel: well, bring' it on!
2020-07-18T09:02:10Z jackdaniel looks carefully in his pocket for some spare time -- empty :)
2020-07-18T09:02:47Z jackdaniel: because it would be absurd if I had some antimatter in my pocket, right?
2020-07-18T09:04:56Z beach: It wouldn't be around for very long.
2020-07-18T09:05:18Z jackdaniel: heh
2020-07-18T09:08:59Z phoe: neither would his pocket
2020-07-18T09:09:59Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-18T09:11:01Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:11:01Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-18T09:11:01Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:11:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:12:54Z brown121407 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T09:15:27Z beach: Yeah.
2020-07-18T09:16:07Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:17:01Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T09:17:58Z jackdaniel: one way to continue this joke would be rehashing the phrase, that there is no /spare time/, so /not very long/ would be a meaningless term ,)
2020-07-18T09:20:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T09:21:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:23:12Z kmeow quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T09:23:55Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:27:16Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:27:49Z flip214: jackdaniel: next time you're waiting for the dentist you might find too much "spare time" on your hands, so be sure to save it somewhere safe!
2020-07-18T09:29:50Z kelamir[m] quit (Quit: authenticating)
2020-07-18T09:29:57Z kelamir[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:34:25Z jackdaniel: is it some kind of elaborate way of saying, that you'd rather had my packet exploded? ;p
2020-07-18T09:38:18Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T09:38:38Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:56:10Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-18T09:57:08Z boeg quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-18T10:03:37Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T10:04:08Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T10:04:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T10:11:46Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-18T10:12:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-18T10:13:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T10:13:49Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-18T10:16:54Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-18T10:17:42Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-18T10:23:33Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T10:23:34Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T10:31:08Z cranes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T10:33:35Z lukego: why didn't ITERATE win over LOOP?
2020-07-18T10:39:20Z shka_: lukego: loop is standard, iterate is not
2020-07-18T10:39:46Z shka_: also, iterate uses code walking that produces some ugly problems sometimes
2020-07-18T10:39:47Z shka_: for instance
2020-07-18T10:40:11Z lukego: I'm noticing serapeum for the first time now too, looks like a worthy addition to the toolbox
2020-07-18T10:40:15Z shka_: (iterate (for elt in list) (sum (count 0 elt)))
2020-07-18T10:40:40Z shka_: and honestly, extending iteratate is not that good
2020-07-18T10:40:52Z shka_: i like iterate personally, but i must admit that it has problems
2020-07-18T10:41:00Z shka_: serapeum is cool
2020-07-18T10:42:47Z flip214: shka_: I think the dwim.hu version doesn't code walk
2020-07-18T10:43:02Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-18T10:43:03Z shka_: i don't know this version
2020-07-18T10:43:31Z shka_: oh, and there is this code moving in iterate that can bite your ass
2020-07-18T10:44:00Z shka_: and let me reiterate: I LIKE ITERATE despite those issues
2020-07-18T10:44:07Z shka_: ;-)
2020-07-18T10:44:23Z flip214: yeah, I use it too
2020-07-18T10:44:36Z shka_: ^5
2020-07-18T10:44:39Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T10:44:52Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T10:47:10Z flip214: I just wished that CL-WHO would include ITERATE support by default
2020-07-18T10:47:12Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T10:52:14Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T10:54:34Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T10:55:05Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-18T11:00:53Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:01:24Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T11:03:28Z nirved: (iterate (for elt in list) (sum (cl:count 0 elt)))
2020-07-18T11:05:32Z nirved: maybe a version of iterate with only keywords accepted would be better: (iterate (:for elt :in list) (:sum (count 0 elt)))
2020-07-18T11:05:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-18T11:06:58Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:08:44Z contrapunctus: Would it help people if Serapeum was listed in awesome-cl?
2020-07-18T11:11:57Z jonathanschlink joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:26:09Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T11:26:28Z flip214 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-18T11:27:37Z flip214 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:29:40Z lukego: contrapunctus: it is, that's where I discovered it just now
2020-07-18T11:29:47Z lerax joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:30:21Z contrapunctus: Oh, odd, okay.
2020-07-18T11:31:19Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T11:32:15Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:34:13Z pve: Hi, do you guys know if it is possible to tell Slime to use a different indentation function inside, say, square brackets [ ... ]?
2020-07-18T11:34:27Z Retropikzel_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:34:42Z Retropikzel quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T11:34:49Z ralt joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:35:12Z lukego: defclass-std looks nice. I have a hard time with the verbosity of defclass forms. seems like an easy fix.
2020-07-18T11:37:02Z beach: All attempts I have seen to "simplify" DEFCLASS are wrong it at least one way.
2020-07-18T11:37:17Z beach: Some use the same slot names as accessor names.
2020-07-18T11:37:35Z beach: Some always define an accessor for every slot.
2020-07-18T11:37:48Z beach: Some have only one possible accessor for each slot.
2020-07-18T11:38:22Z beach: Some don't allow you to omit the initform.
2020-07-18T11:38:31Z beach: Some don't allow :DEFAULT-INITARGS.
2020-07-18T11:39:06Z shka_: is defclass even worth simplifying?
2020-07-18T11:39:06Z lukego: Maybe the best is the enemy of the good though? defclass can do everything, but I never use it because it's so verbose, and I just stick with defstruct.
2020-07-18T11:39:09Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T11:39:34Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:39:37Z beach: And people who claim that their needs correspond exactly to what one such simplification provides usually need to rethink their ideas about protocol design.
2020-07-18T11:39:52Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T11:40:34Z pve: lukego: I have an elisp skeleton function that queries me for the class name and its slots, and then inserts a defclass form with all the goodies. Just as an alternative solution..
2020-07-18T11:41:15Z shka_: honestly, defclass is not even all that verbose
2020-07-18T11:41:44Z beach: It is not verbose because each piece of information it requires is orthogonal to each other piece.
2020-07-18T11:42:16Z shka_: it is "precise"
2020-07-18T11:43:19Z anatrope quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T11:43:25Z shka_: anyway, i am working on readme for my data frame system. Grammar is horrible (i will correct it after i have all of the content) but i wonder what you think about the overall approach https://github.com/sirherrbatka/vellum
2020-07-18T11:44:07Z philadendrite joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:49:23Z aaaaaa quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-18T11:51:12Z lukego: I suppose it's a mindset thing. Most of the time when I'm tempted to use DEFCLASS I'm defining a data structure and not designing a protocol. Maybe I should just stick with defstruct.
2020-07-18T11:52:09Z beach: DEFSTRUCT has its own problems.  It is undefined behavior to redefine an existing structure type.
2020-07-18T11:52:27Z lerax quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T11:52:34Z shka_: well, what helped me is to define your generic functions before even starting to think about specific classes
2020-07-18T11:52:44Z beach: Totally true.
2020-07-18T11:52:59Z lukego: shka_: It'd help to have a bit more about the motivation and intended applications for the data frame. Motivation - why use it instead of simple lists and vectors? Intended applications - how much is this likely to grow and in what direction? also related work, good to mention pandas but does it also relate to e.g. R packages like dplyr or data.table?
2020-07-18T11:53:05Z shka_: after i have defined functions, classes come more naturally
2020-07-18T11:53:32Z shka_: lukego: all good points, thank you
2020-07-18T11:53:37Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-18T11:54:06Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:54:12Z lukego: (also how does it relate to existing lisp data frame packages of which I think there are a few)
2020-07-18T11:54:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:54:20Z beach: lukego: Even classes used to implement a data type often have variations as to whether you want an initform, a slot reader only, a slot accessor with the same name as the reader, a different slot-writer altogether, some :default-initargs, etc.
2020-07-18T11:54:39Z shka_: unfortunately dplyr clone in CL is one of very few things that are not quite feasible to implement
2020-07-18T11:54:45Z pve: but is it really so bad to simplify defclass to suit one's own requirements, as long as it's kept private?
2020-07-18T11:55:30Z lukego: I have a love/hate relationship with dplyr. I love the finished code but I hate debugging all that fexpr bullshit.
2020-07-18T11:55:50Z shka_: pve: it is very little gained for introducing extra syntax sugar
2020-07-18T11:56:05Z shka_: even after disregarding what beach said
2020-07-18T11:56:23Z shka_: lukego: yeah, i feel you
2020-07-18T11:56:32Z jackdaniel: a simplified approach with calsses as a "bags with slots + accessors" probably suits a lot of use cases, and it is possible to redefine the standard class (unlike the structure class), so I think that there is place for that in some projects
2020-07-18T11:57:05Z polaris joined #lisp
2020-07-18T11:57:21Z shka_: lukego: check out transform function, that's how i wanted to get close to dplyr style of code
2020-07-18T11:58:17Z jackdaniel: s/as a/as/
2020-07-18T11:59:58Z pve: shka_: naah, syntactic sugar is sweet
2020-07-18T12:00:19Z shka_: semantic diabetes is not though :-)
2020-07-18T12:00:31Z jackdaniel: syntactic sugar causes code cariosity
2020-07-18T12:00:46Z shka_: and also annoys every singe person trying to read your code
2020-07-18T12:01:20Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:04:39Z whiteline quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T12:04:57Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:08:58Z lukego: shka_: hard to form an opinion on the data frame api. I'm not yet writing that code of code in Lisp. I have a bit of a preference for concrete rather than abstract representations personally so I'd probably want to ride a simple ((COLUMN-NAME . DATA-VECTOR) ...) list for a while before getting into something more serious.
2020-07-18T12:09:31Z lukego: didn't Tony Rossini have a data frame library for Lisp? I think I saw one recently but not sure
2020-07-18T12:09:54Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T12:10:29Z Retropikzel_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-18T12:10:42Z Retropikzel_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:10:54Z shka_: lukego: i have seen two other data frame libs up to this point
2020-07-18T12:11:16Z shka_: one was using list of lists (which is nope for me because of memory) and the other one is teddy
2020-07-18T12:11:48Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:11:59Z shka_: teddy started after i started vellum and honestly it tries to be pandas
2020-07-18T12:12:07Z shka_: which is not a good thing to be in CL
2020-07-18T12:12:33Z shka_: also, i seriously need sparse data frames
2020-07-18T12:13:34Z shka_: memory requirements dictate a lot of design choices in vellum actually
2020-07-18T12:16:13Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T12:17:08Z shka_: i think that adding "why i wrote vellum" to readme is a good idea
2020-07-18T12:20:13Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:20:13Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-18T12:20:13Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:20:28Z lukego: shka_: I'll come back to this eventually. I've started reading _Rethinking Statistics_ with the intention to do the exercises in CL instead of R. Just now transforming data frames isn't something I need because I don't have code that consumes the new data frames e.g. relevant statistical methods
2020-07-18T12:20:58Z shka_: ok
2020-07-18T12:21:28Z shka_: check readme in the future, i will add info about aggregation functions from cl-ds
2020-07-18T12:21:45Z lukego: Going back into caveman mode, maybe another compromise would be a list of ((COLUMN-NAME . VECTOR-OBJECT) ...) where VECTOR-OBJECT is not literally a vector but something that obeys a vectorey protocol e.g. could be a sparse table or just a plain vector underneath
2020-07-18T12:22:20Z lukego: but that's just thinking aloud about how I'd probably take my first baby steps in growing a data table structure one step at a time
2020-07-18T12:22:20Z shka_: well, you could design data frames with interface passing style
2020-07-18T12:22:30Z lukego: interface passing style?
2020-07-18T12:22:30Z shka_: that's what jackdaniel did actually
2020-07-18T12:22:35Z shka_: yeah
2020-07-18T12:22:44Z lukego: I'm not familiar with the term
2020-07-18T12:22:50Z jackdaniel neither
2020-07-18T12:22:55Z shka_: ok, let me explain
2020-07-18T12:23:15Z jackdaniel: but I'm glad I did that, sounds cool
2020-07-18T12:23:17Z jackdaniel: (like continuations)
2020-07-18T12:23:32Z shka_: yaeh, it is this LIL thing
2020-07-18T12:23:38Z shka_: you know what
2020-07-18T12:24:02Z jackdaniel: afaik I've just defined protocols which each object must implement if it is about to be treated as a data frame
2020-07-18T12:24:14Z shka_: anyway, the gist of it is to separate interface from the data type
2020-07-18T12:24:47Z shka_: so the end result is that all functions in the protocol accept both interface object and data object
2020-07-18T12:25:25Z shka_: and data type is de-encapsulated
2020-07-18T12:25:38Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:28:57Z Josh_2: afternoon all
2020-07-18T12:32:30Z Josh_2: generally programming question, whats the goto way to solve a problem where you have many inputs and various combinations of these inputs map to different results
2020-07-18T12:32:39Z Josh_2: think like a polcompass test as an example
2020-07-18T12:34:46Z shka_: Josh_2: i would use generic function :-)
2020-07-18T12:35:13Z shka_: but this can be an overkill depending on the use case
2020-07-18T12:35:46Z Josh_2: hows that gonna work, say you have 100 buttons, 10 of these map to 1 answer, a generic function doesn't seem very specific xD
2020-07-18T12:36:11Z shka_: well, i don't get it
2020-07-18T12:36:12Z shka_: sorry
2020-07-18T12:36:17Z Josh_2: don't worry :P
2020-07-18T12:41:22Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T12:42:38Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:43:54Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-18T12:45:34Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T12:46:11Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:51:30Z lucasb joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:55:10Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T12:55:50Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:56:46Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-18T12:56:55Z entel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-18T12:57:31Z lukego: Coming from R I don't immediately understand the appeal of having elaborate protocols for data frame column implementations. Just make them immutable vectors of double-floats and get on with the real work ;-)
2020-07-18T12:58:23Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:59:00Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-18T12:59:04Z jackdaniel: lukego: does R copy whole dataframe when you select its slice?
2020-07-18T13:00:40Z lukego: I think so but I haven't really looked under the hood. Can you can reference columns separately as their own objects.
2020-07-18T13:02:52Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-18T13:03:26Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:03:43Z lukego: I'm really intrigued by this idea that 99% of statistics is just historical baggage and keen to try and learn "new school" approaches. seems like this computer-heavy Bayesian approach of statistical rethinking gets rave reviews. curious also about the specialized probablistic programming language like Stan but haven't dug deep yet
2020-07-18T13:05:27Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T13:06:13Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:21:04Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:23:01Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:23:09Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:26:31Z kmeow joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:27:34Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-18T13:28:29Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:28:51Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:31:41Z TwoNotes: What is the syntax to (declare) a function parameter to be a vector of single-float?
2020-07-18T13:33:26Z shka_: lukego: well, if you think about it protocol is nothing more then set of operations
2020-07-18T13:33:56Z beach: TwoNotes: (declare (type (vector single-float) <parameter>))
2020-07-18T13:34:07Z TwoNotes: beach ty
2020-07-18T13:34:19Z beach: yaw
2020-07-18T13:34:22Z shka_: and one can argue that vector is not just piece of memory, but set of operations as well
2020-07-18T13:34:50Z shka_: and because without those operations, you cant access the memory you can stretch to say that vector is a protocol
2020-07-18T13:35:40Z shka_: regardless, i got sick of dealing with just pure vectors, that's why vellum exists
2020-07-18T13:37:05Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T13:38:58Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:41:42Z TwoNotes: This is a buffer of data returned from a CFFI so I have no choice about that
2020-07-18T13:42:01Z TwoNotes: audio samples
2020-07-18T13:42:12Z beach: What made you say that?
2020-07-18T13:42:43Z beach: TwoNotes: I think shka_ was talking to lukego.
2020-07-18T13:42:54Z TwoNotes: oh
2020-07-18T13:44:06Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T13:47:44Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T13:48:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:53:27Z shka_: correct
2020-07-18T13:53:39Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:54:25Z Demosthenex: so in slime, i have a multiline lisp fragment i pulled from history. how do i "abort" and clear that quickly instead of having to remove the text back to the repl prompt? in a shell i'd just hit control-c to start a fresh prompt :P
2020-07-18T13:54:43Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T13:55:47Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T13:55:52Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:56:02Z contrapunctus: Demosthenex: kill-sexp, with a negative argument if it's behind point.
2020-07-18T13:57:26Z Demosthenex: that's the thing, being at EOL of a multiline code fragment. i could do M-a and C-k. C-c C-c unfortunatley tries to interrupt the interpreter. i just wanted to clear the line and get a new prompt
2020-07-18T13:57:29Z nirved: Demosthenex: this will help you search for it: C-h b C-x o C-s kill
2020-07-18T13:58:07Z contrapunctus: If you use Boon, `dj` or `d;`; Evil probably has something similar. Bind it to something short and it's no problem...unless...oh, getting to the start/end of a sexp could be an extra step.
2020-07-18T13:58:16Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:58:27Z Demosthenex: nirved: hrm, slime-kill-input. that's certainly closest.
2020-07-18T13:58:58Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-18T13:59:48Z contrapunctus: Demosthenex: slime-delete-current-input seems even better!
2020-07-18T14:00:03Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-18T14:00:10Z contrapunctus: * slime-repl-delete-current-input
2020-07-18T14:00:24Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:00:37Z contrapunctus: Deletes the entire expression, no matter how deeply nested or where point is.
2020-07-18T14:01:10Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-18T14:01:37Z Demosthenex: contrapunctus: i see that, and yes, the slime-kill-input doesn't seem to cleanly handle being inside the block
2020-07-18T14:01:50Z Demosthenex: hrm, has no binding by default
2020-07-18T14:02:14Z Demosthenex: i was thinking maybe it was in the comint lib
2020-07-18T14:07:40Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:08:32Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:10:08Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T14:10:39Z paule32 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:10:51Z paule32: hello @ all
2020-07-18T14:11:13Z paule32: i have a problem with an 2d array
2020-07-18T14:11:17Z paule32: (defparameter *grid* (make-array '(20 20) :initial-element 0))
2020-07-18T14:12:04Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:12:04Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-18T14:12:04Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:12:18Z paule32: how can i represent this 20x20 array as 20 (1 2) x 20 (0 0) ?
2020-07-18T14:12:37Z phoe: what is (1 2)
2020-07-18T14:12:47Z phoe: what do you mean, represent
2020-07-18T14:12:59Z paule32: assume, i have a point at g*rid* 4,5
2020-07-18T14:13:15Z paule32: this point should contain a list of (1 2) as example
2020-07-18T14:13:34Z phoe: (setf (aref *grid* 4 5) '(1 2))
2020-07-18T14:13:57Z paule32: let me try it
2020-07-18T14:13:59Z paule32: thx
2020-07-18T14:15:12Z Josh_2: I keep getting a 'bad-file-descriptor-error' when calling (usocket:remote-peer-port ) on a connected socket
2020-07-18T14:15:20Z Josh_2: I have called (usocket:socket-accept ..) on it
2020-07-18T14:15:43Z paule32: phoe: works great
2020-07-18T14:15:50Z phoe: are you calling remote-peer-port on the server socket, or on the accepted socket returned by SOCKET-ACCEPT?
2020-07-18T14:15:55Z RedMallet quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-18T14:16:03Z Josh_2: accepted
2020-07-18T14:17:07Z Josh_2: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1960#1960 here, these are called sequentially and in order
2020-07-18T14:18:05Z paule32: phoe: it is better to let the 2d array as 20x20 items with 0, or it is better to init each items with '(0 0) ?
2020-07-18T14:18:53Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T14:19:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:19:49Z paule32: the thing is, that each point can have 2 "connect" parts, e.g.  a wire end is connected with a resistor
2020-07-18T14:20:07Z shka_: paule32: well, consider something like this
2020-07-18T14:20:35Z shka_: (defparameter *grid* (make-array '(20 20) :initial-element '(0 0)))
2020-07-18T14:20:52Z shka_: (setf (car (aref *grid* 0 0)) 1)
2020-07-18T14:20:57Z shka_: (print *grid*)
2020-07-18T14:21:07Z shka_: you should figure this out from this
2020-07-18T14:21:18Z paule32: ok, thx
2020-07-18T14:21:50Z Josh_2: phoe: I fixed it.. it was all those unwind protects xD
2020-07-18T14:24:04Z Josh_2: nice, now It's all working :D
2020-07-18T14:27:35Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:30:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T14:33:19Z random-nick quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2020-07-18T14:33:56Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:42:34Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:42:50Z paule32: assume, i have WA1, and WB1 - W stands for wire A, and B for the port end, and the 1 should be the wire 1, so WA2,WB2 stands for wire 2
2020-07-18T14:43:17Z paule32: how can i get the these elements by a loop from the *grid* ?
2020-07-18T14:44:32Z paule32: either horizontal, and/or vertical
2020-07-18T14:44:57Z paule32: not diagonal
2020-07-18T14:45:07Z phoe: what do you mean, get?
2020-07-18T14:45:30Z phoe: (loop for i from 0 below 20 do (print (aref *grid* i 2))) is going to print everything from column 2
2020-07-18T14:45:32Z paule32: get the list item
2020-07-18T14:45:38Z phoe: there's no list there
2020-07-18T14:45:50Z phoe: this is a 2D array, not a list
2020-07-18T14:45:56Z paule32: '(1 0)
2020-07-18T14:46:13Z paule32: as item from the 2d array
2020-07-18T14:46:22Z Retropikzel_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-18T14:46:22Z phoe: oh, you want to retrieve it?
2020-07-18T14:46:27Z phoe: use AREF with the proper indices
2020-07-18T14:46:35Z Retropikzel_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:46:48Z Retropikzel_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-18T14:47:01Z Retropikzel_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:47:17Z Retropikzel_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-18T14:47:23Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T14:47:29Z Retropikzel_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:49:24Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T14:53:16Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-18T14:53:56Z kmeow quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T14:57:27Z paule32: so, last but not least, how can i check the item at the given row,  if it contains WA1 or WB1 ?
2020-07-18T14:57:33Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T14:57:48Z phoe: use AREF with the proper indices, then check the datum that you got
2020-07-18T14:58:14Z paule32: ok, thx
2020-07-18T14:58:41Z paule32: pizza time ...
2020-07-18T14:58:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:00:56Z lukego: Hey random Q but has anyone ever done a hack to support propertized text (a la Emacs) in Lisp/SBCL? i.e. strings having essentially a property list of (START-INDEX END-INDEX KEY VALUE) properties e.g. containing formatting information or other metadata
2020-07-18T15:01:03Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T15:03:43Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:04:25Z Guest9274 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-18T15:05:33Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-18T15:05:51Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:07:07Z bmansurov joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:07:32Z bmansurov is now known as Guest90000
2020-07-18T15:07:50Z lukego is spending a very pleasant afternoon reading serapeum function reference... lots of unfamiliar idioms here
2020-07-18T15:13:34Z tychoish: lukego: I'm not even familar with this in emacs :)
2020-07-18T15:13:56Z loke: lukego: You cannot add this to the STRING type.
2020-07-18T15:14:36Z loke: You'd have to implement it as a separate class, and if you use the SBCL extension functions to extend SEQUENCE, you can get pretty close.
2020-07-18T15:14:47Z loke: But the only reason you'd want to do this is if you're implementing an Emacs in CL.
2020-07-18T15:14:53Z pve: could the string properties be stored in a weak hash table?
2020-07-18T15:15:48Z loke: pve: The problem is that every existing function that deals with strings would ignore it. So if you do, say, (FORMAT NIL "~a" propertiszed-string) you'd lose the properties.
2020-07-18T15:16:00Z pve: right
2020-07-18T15:16:21Z lukego: loke: the use case I had in mind is writing Lisp code that produces strings with extra information for Emacs e.g. references to objects that hte SLIME inspector can chase
2020-07-18T15:16:43Z loke: So if you want to use this design in a CL-based editor, you'd have to work with "special strings" or something like that, and the editor's functions coudl be made to accept either type.
2020-07-18T15:16:46Z loke: It wouldn't be too bad.
2020-07-18T15:22:52Z Retropikzel_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-18T15:28:34Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T15:30:43Z whiteline quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T15:32:36Z kaun_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:33:28Z Retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:35:23Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:35:26Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:35:27Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T15:35:47Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:39:38Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:40:09Z lukego: loke: I'd like for that FORMAT to preserve properties. Emacs Lisp works like this, all the normal string manipulation functions copy properties as if they are attached to the characters themselves. If you don't want the properties you need to strip them manually.
2020-07-18T15:40:41Z lukego: Maybe it's better to think of it that way i.e. property lists on characters rather than property ranges on strings. I wonder if that could be done in SBCL.
2020-07-18T15:41:39Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:42:24Z srji joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:43:30Z kaun_: lukego? of distel fame?
2020-07-18T15:44:37Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-18T15:45:00Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T15:45:22Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:45:51Z kaun_ left #lisp
2020-07-18T15:46:07Z kaun_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:46:09Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:46:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T15:47:05Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:47:12Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:50:16Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-18T15:54:05Z Josh_2: Is there a library to discover my machines IP address? saves the user having to enter in manually in my program, although I could make a nice McCLim interface for this program
2020-07-18T15:54:42Z phoe: Josh_2: which one? there can be plentyu
2020-07-18T15:54:53Z Josh_2: Yes exactly
2020-07-18T15:55:03Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:55:04Z Josh_2: just listing IP's for each interface would do
2020-07-18T15:55:19Z Josh_2: Then the user can select when they start my program
2020-07-18T15:55:45Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T15:56:10Z roze joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:56:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:57:41Z phoe: https://github.com/elliottslaughter/ip-interfaces ?
2020-07-18T15:58:00Z Josh_2: looks great
2020-07-18T15:58:12Z Josh_2: with cross platform compatibility, pretty awesome
2020-07-18T15:58:24Z kaun_ left #lisp
2020-07-18T15:59:18Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-18T15:59:44Z Jeanne-Kamikaze joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:02:34Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T16:03:48Z Josh_2: thanks phoe works just great
2020-07-18T16:03:55Z phoe: <3
2020-07-18T16:04:44Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:05:12Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-18T16:05:16Z Josh_2: I think I will attempt to make a mcclim interface for this app
2020-07-18T16:05:22Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:08:35Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:10:35Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:11:44Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:13:39Z seok: which autocomplete does portacle ship with?
2020-07-18T16:14:01Z seok: I want to force C-x C-f to create a file, it opens a file with similar name
2020-07-18T16:15:00Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T16:15:52Z loke: seok: I don't know which one that is, but it's horrible. Yes.
2020-07-18T16:22:49Z roze quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T16:24:42Z polaris quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-18T16:26:33Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:26:45Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T16:32:28Z ggole: If that's ido, C-f falls back to the non-completing version iirc
2020-07-18T16:32:37Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-18T16:32:59Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T16:34:11Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:34:36Z ralt quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-18T16:35:45Z seok: ggole: this works! tyvm
2020-07-18T16:35:48Z ralt joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:36:11Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T16:36:28Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:37:56Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T16:42:18Z paule32: hello
2020-07-18T16:42:32Z paule32: how can i concate 2 items ?
2020-07-18T16:42:34Z paule32: (defvar wa 0)
2020-07-18T16:42:34Z paule32: (concatenate 'list wa 1)
2020-07-18T16:42:34Z paule32: (setf (aref *grid* 5  4) '(wa1 0))
2020-07-18T16:42:44Z paule32: don't work
2020-07-18T16:43:04Z phoe: paule32: (setf wa (append wa '(1)))
2020-07-18T16:43:15Z phoe: or (nconc wa (lis 1))
2020-07-18T16:43:23Z paule32: thx
2020-07-18T16:43:47Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:45:46Z lerax joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:47:54Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T16:48:32Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T16:51:37Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-18T16:52:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T16:54:46Z seok: Is there a way to persist connection with postmodern?
2020-07-18T16:57:49Z seok: Ah there are connection pools
2020-07-18T16:57:51Z seok: nvm
2020-07-18T16:59:07Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T16:59:16Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:07:33Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-18T17:08:14Z specbot quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T17:08:34Z minion quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T17:09:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T17:09:23Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:10:23Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:10:49Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:10:54Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T17:11:03Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:11:13Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-18T17:12:39Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T17:13:29Z Oladon: Anyone around with experience in parser combinators? I'm trying to do two things with bbcode-tag (L90): 1) make it work, and 2) make it recursive. https://pastebin.com/an96mFSK White_Flame: I'm sure you'd have some thoughts, if you're around
2020-07-18T17:13:48Z Oladon: I'm pretty new to the concept of parser combinators, so I suspect I'm missing something fairly obvious.
2020-07-18T17:14:40Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-18T17:14:52Z ckonstanski quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T17:15:18Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:15:18Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T17:17:23Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T17:20:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T17:21:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:23:14Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T17:28:20Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:31:37Z Demosthenex: hrm. the common lisp cookbook completely breaks keyboard scrolling. i have to touch the rodent.
2020-07-18T17:31:42Z Demosthenex: how odd
2020-07-18T17:36:07Z luna_is_here_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:39:01Z paule32 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T17:43:24Z luna_is_here quit (Quit: luna_is_here)
2020-07-18T17:45:38Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:46:04Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T17:46:14Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T17:46:45Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T17:50:07Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T17:59:56Z dvdmuckle quit (Quit: Bouncer Surgery)
2020-07-18T18:02:47Z dvdmuckle joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:07:29Z lukego: SBCL seems to represent characters as 32-bit and with three spare bits to play with...
2020-07-18T18:08:54Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T18:12:11Z lukego: are there any "invisible" characters that can be present in strings but will be skipped in visible formatted output (rendered as if not there) and won't be counted e.g. towards pretty-printer column number? Thinking about sneaking "escape" characters into strings discretely
2020-07-18T18:13:47Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T18:15:55Z johntalent joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:17:33Z p_l: lukego: combining characters, especially various zero-width whitespace, though it depends what shows the output
2020-07-18T18:17:54Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:17:58Z p_l: And SBCL characters are iirc 21 bit, exactly as specified in Unicode
2020-07-18T18:18:31Z lukego: right, but it says in memory they are 32-bits of space of which 29 are used (eight for sbcl type tag and 21 for unicode character code)
2020-07-18T18:19:12Z p_l: Ahh, this way, yes
2020-07-18T18:19:27Z p_l: (I didn't know about the tag bits used)
2020-07-18T18:19:49Z lukego: but three bits isn't much if you still want to have a character in the low bits. So sounds more promising to look for alternatives
2020-07-18T18:19:49Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:21:14Z lukego: I'll look at these "combining characters", thanks for the keyword
2020-07-18T18:21:52Z lukego: just an idle thought at the moment but it would be neat to have a little "CLIM lite" in Emacs with presentations inlined into ordinary formatted output
2020-07-18T18:23:12Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:23:12Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-18T18:23:12Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:24:18Z elosant joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:25:12Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:25:44Z lukego: hey serapeum already has a powerset function :)
2020-07-18T18:29:26Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:29:56Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T18:31:29Z elosant quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-18T18:35:49Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:39:55Z edgar-rft: powerset sounds like teleshopping :-)
2020-07-18T18:44:24Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T18:44:29Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:47:30Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:47:58Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:48:54Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T18:49:49Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:50:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T18:50:44Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T18:52:20Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T18:53:42Z shka_: lukego: yup, serapeum is a nice lib
2020-07-18T18:54:14Z shka_: i use it a lot
2020-07-18T18:57:10Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T19:03:04Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-18T19:03:25Z shka_: i like how it pulls stuff from other programing languages
2020-07-18T19:03:42Z mankaev quit
2020-07-18T19:03:44Z shka_: clojures take/drop/threading macros, APL like scan
2020-07-18T19:03:50Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-18T19:06:22Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-18T19:07:25Z johnjay quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-18T19:15:02Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T19:15:23Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T19:17:44Z rixard joined #lisp
2020-07-18T19:21:44Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-18T19:24:36Z ralt quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-18T19:27:25Z Josh_2: is this correct? https://imgur.com/km5Ls8A.png It's mcclim examples
2020-07-18T19:27:33Z Josh_2: i also made one of the examples crash
2020-07-18T19:27:40Z johnjay joined #lisp
2020-07-18T19:28:29Z Josh_2: https://imgur.com/43TnvgY.png off
2020-07-18T19:28:30Z Josh_2: oof*
2020-07-18T19:30:04Z karayan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T19:31:02Z seok: why does pomo reference have an example with (create-database) when it is not defined?
2020-07-18T19:31:03Z seok: https://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/
2020-07-18T19:33:20Z seok: Hm, the quickload version of postmodern seems not to have that function?
2020-07-18T19:34:59Z Josh_2: https://imgur.com/hPlsk6y.png my first gui xD
2020-07-18T19:35:39Z seok: nice
2020-07-18T19:36:50Z shka_: Josh_2: congrats
2020-07-18T19:39:43Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-18T19:41:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T19:42:27Z karayan joined #lisp
2020-07-18T19:47:30Z izh_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T19:48:44Z Josh_2: Now to make something actually functional xD
2020-07-18T19:49:29Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-18T19:52:06Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T19:53:40Z Retropikzel quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-18T19:57:09Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T19:57:14Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:03:33Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:05:26Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T20:05:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:05:59Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T20:16:03Z madage quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T20:16:53Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:17:15Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T20:20:59Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T20:21:16Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:22:47Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-18T20:24:30Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:25:29Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-18T20:25:33Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:26:39Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T20:32:31Z FakePedro joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:33:12Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T20:33:21Z FakePedro quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-18T20:33:23Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:34:05Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T20:35:31Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T20:36:50Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:37:24Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:38:06Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:41:58Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T20:42:14Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:42:22Z bsd joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:43:10Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:43:40Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:45:09Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:45:17Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:46:03Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T20:46:13Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:49:47Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T20:55:09Z izh_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T20:56:43Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-18T20:57:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T20:58:40Z Josh_2: How do python metaclasses compare to CL's?
2020-07-18T21:06:42Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-18T21:06:53Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-18T21:08:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T21:08:11Z xristos: Josh_2: CL has a metaobject protocol that CLOS sits on top of
2020-07-18T21:08:15Z xristos: Python is adhoc
2020-07-18T21:08:54Z Josh_2: please could you elaborate a little?
2020-07-18T21:09:17Z xristos: trying to find a good reference (guido talking about it)
2020-07-18T21:09:44Z xristos: here: https://www.hackernewspapers.com/2018/605-pythons-meta-object-protocol/
2020-07-18T21:11:08Z Josh_2: geez
2020-07-18T21:11:10Z Josh_2: what a put down hahaha
2020-07-18T21:11:13Z Josh_2: thanks for that xristos
2020-07-18T21:12:54Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-18T21:13:31Z xristos: i do find Python as a whole very thrown-together and not cohesive
2020-07-18T21:13:48Z xristos: which goes against all my aesthetic sensibilities ;p
2020-07-18T21:13:52Z Josh_2: I have never written anything non trivial in it so I wouldn't know
2020-07-18T21:13:58Z Josh_2: I'll take your word for it
2020-07-18T21:16:20Z bsd quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T21:16:29Z TwoNotes: Is there some gotcha about using the SBCL debugger with threads?
2020-07-18T21:16:38Z Josh_2: heh It's a bit of a pain xD
2020-07-18T21:16:48Z Josh_2: I have found anyway perhaps there is a nice way to do it
2020-07-18T21:17:02Z phoe: TwoNotes: yes - use the slime debugger instead wherever possible
2020-07-18T21:17:14Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T21:17:41Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-18T21:18:06Z TwoNotes: ok, I will try that
2020-07-18T21:23:28Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T21:23:45Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T21:24:04Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T21:24:08Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T21:24:21Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T21:24:54Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T21:27:53Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-18T21:29:10Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-18T21:31:12Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-18T21:33:22Z philadendrite quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-18T21:34:11Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T21:35:28Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T21:40:57Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-18T21:53:34Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T21:54:21Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T21:59:43Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T22:03:00Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T22:03:49Z Jeanne-Kamikaze quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-18T22:05:55Z bitmapper quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T22:10:07Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-18T22:10:27Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-18T22:10:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T22:11:02Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-18T22:11:14Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T22:14:39Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-18T22:17:05Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-18T22:38:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T22:38:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T22:45:38Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T22:45:59Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-18T22:45:59Z zooey joined #lisp
2020-07-18T22:49:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T22:50:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-18T22:52:42Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-18T22:52:46Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T22:53:47Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-18T22:54:02Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-18T22:57:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T23:11:43Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-18T23:17:42Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-18T23:18:01Z dislocated joined #lisp
2020-07-18T23:18:32Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T23:25:54Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-18T23:27:13Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T23:28:27Z karayan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T23:34:30Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-18T23:34:48Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-18T23:36:17Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-18T23:44:59Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-18T23:46:39Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-18T23:47:28Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-18T23:53:36Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-18T23:54:41Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-18T23:57:30Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T00:00:41Z Oladon: Anyone around with experience in parser combinators? I'm trying to do two things with bbcode-tag (L90): 1) make it work, and 2) make it recursive. https://pastebin.com/an96mFSK
2020-07-19T00:00:45Z Oladon: I'm pretty new to the concept of parser combinators, so I suspect I'm missing something fairly obvious.
2020-07-19T00:06:12Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T00:06:49Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-19T00:07:08Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T00:08:56Z iissaacc: any postmodern experts here
2020-07-19T00:09:15Z Oladon: iissaacc: Best to just ask your question. :)
2020-07-19T00:09:41Z iissaacc: trying to insert a dao with a nil in one of the slots, getting the following error. I can't find anythng in the manual about how nils in daos are treated
2020-07-19T00:09:53Z iissaacc: Database error 22007: invalid input syntax for type timestamp: "false"
2020-07-19T00:10:26Z iissaacc: i assume I'll have to convert the nil to db-null before i do the (insert-dao dao)
2020-07-19T00:10:34Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-19T00:10:44Z Oladon: Indeed, or just use the keyword :null
2020-07-19T00:11:07Z Oladon: https://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/#e2475974-6131-40ef-9ca3-54bf111a5dd0
2020-07-19T00:11:13Z Oladon: ^ Data types in postmodern
2020-07-19T00:12:58Z iissaacc: thanks brah :null it is
2020-07-19T00:18:30Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T00:22:24Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-19T00:27:25Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-19T00:31:22Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T00:31:25Z markasoftware: How do postmodern and mito interact, or are they mutually exclusive?
2020-07-19T00:31:38Z Oladon: They're mutually exclusive
2020-07-19T00:32:54Z satousan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T00:33:16Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T00:33:37Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-19T00:36:52Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-19T00:38:11Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T00:45:13Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-19T00:50:35Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T00:51:11Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-19T00:55:11Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T00:55:18Z liead is now known as adlai
2020-07-19T00:55:41Z dislocated quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T00:55:52Z dislocated joined #lisp
2020-07-19T00:56:12Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-19T01:04:04Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T01:05:43Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-19T01:10:01Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-19T01:19:57Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-19T01:24:35Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T01:28:18Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T01:30:30Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T01:31:14Z lucasb quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-19T01:32:46Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-19T01:35:10Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T01:39:13Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-19T01:47:17Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T01:58:09Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-19T01:59:18Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T01:59:19Z nitrix is now known as nightrix
2020-07-19T02:05:02Z nightrix is now known as nitrix
2020-07-19T02:06:49Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T02:11:24Z kinope[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-19T02:13:01Z kinope[m] is now known as kinope
2020-07-19T02:14:02Z kinope quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-19T02:23:37Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-19T02:30:40Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-19T02:34:26Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-19T02:41:13Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-19T02:41:47Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T02:43:27Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T02:45:34Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T02:49:25Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-19T02:49:34Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-19T02:49:34Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-19T02:49:34Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-19T02:51:35Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-19T02:52:20Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-19T02:56:06Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T02:56:21Z yCrazyEdd joined #lisp
2020-07-19T02:57:13Z yCrazyEdd is now known as CrazyEddy
2020-07-19T02:59:29Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T03:08:23Z arpunk joined #lisp
2020-07-19T03:12:24Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T03:14:17Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-19T03:16:47Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T03:17:42Z johntalent: Anyone have any interest in getting ECL to work under The Godot Engine?
2020-07-19T03:23:18Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T03:28:11Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T03:32:34Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T03:37:24Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-19T03:41:13Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T03:49:03Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-19T03:51:38Z arpunk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T03:53:28Z satousan quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-19T03:54:05Z aeth: stylewarning: What exactly is coalton? Is it a different language that compiles to CL?
2020-07-19T03:55:09Z aeth: stylewarning: Also, I noticed your repository has that annoying NewLisp false positive that the Linguist (written in Ruby) library has, and it's used by both Github and Gitlab. You can fix that by manually telling it that all .lisp files are Common Lisp in .gitattributes like this: https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zombie-raptor/-/blob/9a520eb8a41751cd377ad334446f222522322647/.gitattributes
2020-07-19T03:55:31Z aeth: to save you a click it's just this one line:
2020-07-19T03:55:31Z aeth: *.lisp linguist-language=Common-Lisp
2020-07-19T03:55:53Z aeth: 1 false positive file: library.lisp: https://github.com/stylewarning/coalton/search?l=newlisp
2020-07-19T03:57:01Z aeth: Ah, I see why... it uses a heuristic system, and any "define" with no "defun" (or I guess not enough "defun"s since you have one) is seen as NewLisp... which leads to quite a few false positives even without custom macros since sometimes people have files with only DEFINE-CONDITIONs in them.
2020-07-19T03:57:33Z aeth: The file in question: https://github.com/stylewarning/coalton/blob/b2fe9d9103bdf8af2796e2caf40d6513d4c6f074/src/library.lisp
2020-07-19T03:58:32Z aeth: Alternatively, they do recognize emacs modes in the header (well, I know Gitlab does) so you could just add ";;;; -*- mode: common-lisp; -*-" to the top of that file.
2020-07-19T04:05:02Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-19T04:09:18Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-19T04:09:42Z stylewarning: aeth: is LOOP a different language that compiles to CL? If yes, then yes Coalton is
2020-07-19T04:10:19Z stylewarning: Ty for newlisp note
2020-07-19T04:12:25Z stylewarning: aeth: my hope is that Coalton can be compiled and type checked at macro time and expand into efficient Common Lisp code
2020-07-19T04:12:54Z stylewarning: I don’t want it to be a language atop Lisp as much as a language within Lisp
2020-07-19T04:16:45Z stylewarning: I’m just not sure I’ll be able to do everything properly at macroexpansion time. Coalton is having issues currently with side effects happening at macro time
2020-07-19T04:17:02Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T04:18:43Z aeth: stylewarning: Well, if you do make it a language that compiles to Common Lisp with almost-but-not-quite-identical syntax to CL then you need to solve the same problem that my Airship Scheme is working on solving, which is why I asked about the distinction.
2020-07-19T04:19:23Z aeth: stylewarning: One of the trickiest parts seems to be ASDF integration since it's not obvious at all where to intercept the ASDF file compiler to tell it to use a custom reader but otherwise treat it as a Common Lisp file.
2020-07-19T04:22:13Z stylewarning: I want the usual Lisp reader to work
2020-07-19T04:23:03Z stylewarning: This file is an example https://github.com/stylewarning/coalton/blob/master/src/library.lisp#L3
2020-07-19T04:24:22Z aeth: stylewarning: What exactly are the issues with side effects at macro time? The only way I can think around that is if you do side effects in a way that multiple (almost always just double) evaluation doesn't impact the macro. "No side effects in macros" is only a rule of thumb, after all. e.g. a global INCFed variable is afaik fine, since it should only go up.
2020-07-19T04:24:28Z remexre joined #lisp
2020-07-19T04:24:44Z aeth: Also INTERNing is the most notable exception to the no-side-effects-in-macro rule, since INTERNing twice isn't problematic.
2020-07-19T04:25:04Z johntalent quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-19T04:25:28Z aeth: I guess DEFUNs are similar.
2020-07-19T04:26:01Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-19T04:26:25Z stylewarning: aeth: I modify and query a global database at  macro time and it causes all sorts of funky stuff, esp. since those side effects aren’t put into a FASL
2020-07-19T04:26:52Z stylewarning: See eg https://github.com/stylewarning/coalton/blob/master/src/library.lisp#L3
2020-07-19T04:28:53Z stylewarning: Oops wrong link
2020-07-19T04:29:06Z stylewarning: https://github.com/stylewarning/coalton/issues/11
2020-07-19T04:30:45Z aeth: stylewarning: what is the database?
2020-07-19T04:30:57Z stylewarning: Holds types of all global functions and variables
2020-07-19T04:31:10Z aeth: yes, but what is it?
2020-07-19T04:31:32Z stylewarning: Here: https://github.com/stylewarning/coalton/blob/master/src/global-environment.lisp#L15
2020-07-19T04:31:37Z stylewarning: A hash table with structs
2020-07-19T04:32:05Z aeth: What if instead of using one hash table you defined functions in a different package namespace? So you'd look up with function calls.
2020-07-19T04:32:17Z aeth: And changing the type would just be redefining functions.
2020-07-19T04:32:43Z stylewarning: Kind of kooky but I dig it
2020-07-19T04:33:21Z stylewarning: Using FDEFINITIONS and symbols as a database itself
2020-07-19T04:34:28Z stylewarning: The difficult part is setting and querying still. I think I’d have to EVAL or SETF FDEF to get that to work
2020-07-19T04:34:37Z aeth: I was thinking along the lines of generating `(defun coalton.type:foo () 'whatever-you-use-for-types)
2020-07-19T04:34:51Z aeth: Then you'd just get it with (coalton.type:foo)
2020-07-19T04:35:26Z stylewarning: Yes I understand
2020-07-19T04:35:37Z aeth: As long as you only use 'coalton.type:foo and (coalton.type:foo) without using any #'coalton.type:foo in your code, then it will always query the fresh value and not go stale (the #' could go stale)
2020-07-19T04:36:01Z aeth: (In case you haven't encountered that before)
2020-07-19T04:36:08Z stylewarning: But I need to change and query that value at macro time
2020-07-19T04:36:25Z stylewarning: Not just generate a value which I can play with at runtime
2020-07-19T04:37:13Z stylewarning: All of this hacking does lead me to believe I ought to have special ASDF support so I can do stuff before and after the compilation unit
2020-07-19T04:37:21Z aeth: I think defining and redefining functions is an acceptable side effect in macros. If it's not, you can add a versioning system of always-incrementing version numbers for each function, since always-incrementing afaik is safe.
2020-07-19T04:38:01Z stylewarning: aeth: consider this function which gets executed as a part of a macroexpansion https://github.com/stylewarning/coalton/blob/master/src/toplevel-declare.lisp#L35
2020-07-19T04:38:15Z aeth: Please lobby for that special ASDF support because I know that you're doing it for types and not a custom reader, but Airship Scheme needs the exact same thing (telling it to use a custom reader before the compilation unit and then restoring it after, or something along those lines).
2020-07-19T04:38:32Z stylewarning: Yeah I would lobby for that
2020-07-19T04:39:12Z aeth: I've been looking through ASDF off and on over the past few years and have found some possible candidates for interception (if I wrote it down somewhere...) but it would really just be a hack and not something official afaik like it should be.
2020-07-19T04:39:50Z stylewarning: Is it possible to define a new component type? We do that for compiling C libraries
2020-07-19T04:40:38Z aeth: The problem is that you'd want the least possible work, since you want it to otherwise use the CL compiler just with some before/after stuff.
2020-07-19T04:40:56Z stylewarning: aeth: https://github.com/rigetti/magicl/blob/master/magicl-transcendental.asd#L56
2020-07-19T04:40:58Z aeth: If you just copy and paste the implementation of the .lisp stuff (through quite a few files) I think it would work
2020-07-19T04:41:08Z aeth: But that just seems wrong...
2020-07-19T04:41:21Z stylewarning: That converts a FORTRAN file into a .so via an ASDF component
2020-07-19T04:41:26Z aeth: ah
2020-07-19T04:41:50Z stylewarning: The definition for that is above
2020-07-19T04:42:09Z aeth: Does that use its own file extension, distinct from .lisp? Coalton might need its own extension.
2020-07-19T04:42:59Z aeth: It's not as bad as it sounds since most tools should respect ";;;; -*- mode: common-lisp; -*-" so it would just add one line of boilerplate to every file
2020-07-19T04:44:25Z stylewarning: Yes it’s .f
2020-07-19T04:44:49Z stylewarning: aeth that’s controlled by https://github.com/rigetti/magicl/blob/master/magicl-transcendental.asd#L9
2020-07-19T04:45:41Z stylewarning: If airship scheme is a scheme compiled to Lisp in Lisp that sounds awesome
2020-07-19T04:46:22Z aeth: ouch, that file uses way more lines than I thought that the solution would take, and since that just calls a foreign compiler, that's probably fewer lines than reimplementing ASDF's CL compiler logic
2020-07-19T04:46:45Z aeth: Ideally, a custom extension in ASDF with before/after stuff would just produce .FASLs and reuse almost all of ASDF's CL machinery.
2020-07-19T04:48:40Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-19T04:48:45Z aeth: stylewarning: Yes, Airship Scheme is written in Common Lisp + R7RS Scheme and will compile to Common Lisp, and interoperate with Common Lisp using the hack of case inversion so Scheme's case-sensitive "foo" is really "FOO"... https://gitlab.com/mbabich/airship-scheme
2020-07-19T04:49:04Z aeth: stylewarning: I got like 90% of the way to a version 0.0.1 in April and then it stalled out a bit and I needed to take a break from it
2020-07-19T04:49:19Z stylewarning: Sounds like airship and Coalton would need to solve a lot of the same problems
2020-07-19T04:49:33Z stylewarning: Lexical bonding, file compilation, an “FFI”
2020-07-19T04:49:38Z stylewarning: bonding lol
2020-07-19T04:50:27Z aeth: Airship Scheme even has a minimal "runtime" since it adds continuation passing style to everything. What I'm going to do is add it at the exposed-to-CL entrypoints, but also have internal Scheme procedure definitions that don't add the runtime
2020-07-19T04:50:39Z aeth: Well that and guaranteed tail recursion.
2020-07-19T04:50:59Z aeth: Afaik, continuation passing style + thunks + trampoline will solve that, not that much boilerplate, and almost all of it handled by macros
2020-07-19T04:51:19Z Retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-19T04:52:13Z aeth: stylewarning: Airship Scheme will probably also support optional static typing, since I already do some static typing in CL with my DEFINE-FUNCTION macro... https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zr-utils/-/blob/24f747564418f65b91df186028655c408fe18244/util.lisp#L66
2020-07-19T04:53:06Z aeth: I've just added a few tests so you can see the massive amounts of boilerplate DEFINE-FUNCTION can save: https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zr-utils/-/blob/24f747564418f65b91df186028655c408fe18244/tests/all.lisp#L68-178
2020-07-19T04:53:26Z aeth: Well, the test cases are simple so it's not entirely apparent, but see e.g. line 166 for one of the more elaborate examples.
2020-07-19T04:55:04Z aeth: stylewarning: I might add some extensibility to DEFINE-FUNCTION and the other macros in the collection to support some other libraries that deal with types, e.g. specialization-store (a type-based generic dispatch, rather than class-based... useful for numbers/sequences) https://github.com/markcox80/specialization-store/
2020-07-19T04:55:10Z aeth: Or Coalton, I guess. If that's at all possible.
2020-07-19T04:57:16Z aeth: (If I do, I'd do it through optional ASDF systems in subdirectories so zr-utils doesn't suddenly depend on half a dozen type-system-expanding CL libraries... or just through exposing an API for those libraries to use)
2020-07-19T04:59:11Z aeth: stylewarning: I'm also considering (when Airship Scheme is more complete) moving some code out of airship-scheme and/or zr-utils to serve as a sort of embedding-languages-in-CL framework...
2020-07-19T04:59:34Z stylewarning: aeth: the Coalton language is really intended to be a scheme like
2020-07-19T04:59:45Z aeth: One of the things that's delaying Airship Scheme is that I'm overengineering the reader in Airship Scheme so it can be upstreamed to the language framework
2020-07-19T04:59:46Z stylewarning: Except one that’s type safe and with type defining operators
2020-07-19T04:59:56Z Retropikzel quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-19T05:01:22Z aeth: I'd really love if Airship Scheme could interoperate in every language that's embedded into CL, not just CL itself. (I know of several: Shen, Clojure (two?), Python, JavaScript, etc.)
2020-07-19T05:01:58Z aeth: I am also considering writing a Lua implementation as a test of this framework, since Lua is a tiny, but notable language.
2020-07-19T05:02:20Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:02:32Z aeth: The idea being that any language that doesn't use s-expressions would first be parsed into a high-level s-expression representation
2020-07-19T05:02:40Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-19T05:03:14Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:03:17Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T05:04:04Z aeth: stylewarning: If your emphasis is on types, then that overlaps quite a bit with Airship Scheme. Scheme is portably only "predecately" typed, e.g. a list is just something that satisfies "list?" which could naively (and inefficiently) just be CL SATISFIES types
2020-07-19T05:04:34Z aeth: But another way to do it would be to generate a CL DEFTYPE and a type predicate at the same time, and maybe even use the ?s at the end of the name for the type since Scheme is a Lisp-1
2020-07-19T05:04:44Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:06:23Z stylewarning: aeth the focus for me is being able to define parametric types (a list-of T) and have them all statically type checked before code is executed (allowing me, in turn, to put safe DECLARES that will never be violated)
2020-07-19T05:07:16Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-19T05:08:56Z aeth: Well, statically typed and/or immutable sequences are coming to Airship Scheme at some point, hopefully before milestone 1.0, but if not, then at least for 2.0.
2020-07-19T05:09:09Z aeth: Of course, they'd also be exposed to the CL, via something like https://github.com/Shinmera/trivial-extensible-sequences/
2020-07-19T05:09:53Z aeth: Checking arbitrary, generic CONSes for their contents seems O(n), though
2020-07-19T05:10:41Z aeth: I have a prototype, inconvenient-to-use typed-list/typed-cons using structs here, which I use in a handful of places in my game engine: https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zr-utils/-/blob/24f747564418f65b91df186028655c408fe18244/data-structures.lisp#L48
2020-07-19T05:12:25Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:13:52Z stylewarning: Verifying at runtime it’s true you need O(n) checks
2020-07-19T05:16:15Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:16:39Z stylewarning: Coalton doesn’t need such checks because all functions capable of constructing lists in the first place are also verified
2020-07-19T05:17:06Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:17:34Z aeth: Airship Scheme can't do that because then any use of CLFFI could (and probably would) break the type system
2020-07-19T05:18:05Z aeth: It sounds similar to what TypeScript does afaik, though
2020-07-19T05:18:26Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:18:29Z stylewarning: Right. In Coalton you have to tell Coalton what type your lisp ffi is. If you lie you die and Coalton automatically rm -rf /
2020-07-19T05:19:34Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T05:21:33Z stylewarning: Lisp ffi example https://github.com/stylewarning/coalton/blob/master/src/library.lisp#L77
2020-07-19T05:23:27Z Retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:24:05Z aeth: stylewarning: here's mine at the moment: https://gitlab.com/mbabich/airship-scheme/-/blob/cbc61ba6390d4c955cc1f7175ae94933387e7490/standard-procedures.lisp
2020-07-19T05:24:55Z aeth: Several things. First, I didn't add the optional static types there yet. I'd probably use pretty similar syntax to DEFINE-FUNCTION... except, of course it would be (define-scheme-procedure (foo (x integer)) ...) instead of (define-function foo ((x integer)) ...) since the idea is to use almost Scheme-like syntax
2020-07-19T05:25:47Z aeth: And second, I'm not quite settled on how to handle arbitrary-length procedures... At the moment, I just use APPLY because if the function's inline, SBCL knows what to do and optimizes it away.
2020-07-19T05:26:29Z aeth: Oh, I suppose the third thing to note is that I do it in CL, not in Scheme, while you seem to do yours in Colton... although in principle I should be able to have parallel macros in Scheme for most things I'm doing in CL.
2020-07-19T05:27:21Z aeth: s/if the function's inline/if the function is inline or a built-in CL function/
2020-07-19T05:31:15Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-19T05:34:37Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:40:05Z troydm quit (Quit: What is Hope? That all of your wishes and all of your dreams come true? To turn back time because things were not supposed to happen like that (C) Rau Le Creuset)
2020-07-19T05:40:32Z troydm joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:42:19Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T05:43:31Z contrapunctus: stylewarning: "Right. In Coalton you have to tell Coalton what type your lisp ffi is. If you lie you die and Coalton automatically rm -rf /" lmao
2020-07-19T05:46:24Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:54:11Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T05:58:01Z fbmnds joined #lisp
2020-07-19T05:58:42Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T06:00:53Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-19T06:01:05Z fbmnds quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-19T06:01:25Z fbmnds joined #lisp
2020-07-19T06:01:34Z fbmnds: good morning
2020-07-19T06:04:29Z fbmnds: jackdaniel: (in case you'll see this later) - ECL appears not to have a compare-and-swap implementation (ref. https://github.com/lmj/lparallel/blob/master/src/thread-util.lisp#L113). Is there a known workaround?
2020-07-19T06:06:40Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T06:07:31Z fe[nl]ix: fbmnds: it does actually, there's mp:compare-and-swap
2020-07-19T06:09:45Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T06:12:28Z fbmnds: fe[nl]ix: thank you
2020-07-19T06:18:00Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-19T06:20:36Z fe[nl]ix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T06:20:36Z Blkt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T06:20:52Z Blkt joined #lisp
2020-07-19T06:20:53Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2020-07-19T06:20:54Z ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix
2020-07-19T06:27:22Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-19T06:29:05Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T06:29:16Z fbmnds left #lisp
2020-07-19T06:30:19Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T06:30:21Z fbmnds joined #lisp
2020-07-19T06:30:33Z fbmnds quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2020-07-19T06:32:30Z jackdaniel: ftr, I saw this ;) and it deos, thanks fe[nl]ix
2020-07-19T06:37:47Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T06:42:35Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T06:43:05Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T06:44:25Z technobean left #lisp
2020-07-19T06:46:15Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-19T06:52:46Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:01:37Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:13:14Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T07:14:22Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:15:58Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:16:13Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:17:49Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:18:25Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-19T07:19:47Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T07:23:17Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:24:07Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T07:27:34Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T07:28:38Z emys joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:32:59Z emys quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T07:33:38Z dislocated left #lisp
2020-07-19T07:34:00Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:36:29Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-19T07:46:29Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:47:21Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:48:22Z Retropikzel quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T07:48:33Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:50:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T07:52:17Z shangul: Hello guys. A few days ago I started learning ARM assembly(32bit) just for fun. But a little after that a shining lamp appeared above my head: How about optimizing existing CL compilers for ARM so that CL can run as fast as C on ARM, too(as it is already as fast as C on x86 or even sometimes faster). What do you think and what are the requirements for doing so(other than having knowledge of CL and ARM ASM)?
2020-07-19T07:52:24Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:53:12Z shangul: Note that I have not studied the Compiler Design lesson in uni, yet.
2020-07-19T07:58:14Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T07:58:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T07:59:00Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-19T08:06:54Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T08:07:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T08:08:01Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-19T08:09:42Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T08:10:07Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T08:10:13Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-19T08:10:49Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T08:10:57Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-19T08:15:23Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T08:15:28Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T08:17:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T08:18:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T08:24:11Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T08:32:10Z beach: shangul: All that is required in order to get a Common Lisp implementation to run as fast on ARM as it does on x86 is to apply all the optimization tricks that are documented in the literature of compiler design.
2020-07-19T08:32:26Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-19T08:33:12Z beach: shangul: But, let me say this again, it is highly unlikely that any Common Lisp implementation will run as fast as the best C implementation on any modern architecture.
2020-07-19T08:34:03Z beach: The reason is simple.  The semantics of the two languages are very different.  So to respect the semantics of Common Lisp, more work needs to be done at run-time that what is needed for C.
2020-07-19T08:36:07Z beach: shangul: Furthermore, C compilers exploit a lot of undefined behavior (as the C standard allows them to do) so as to maximize performance, no matter the consequences to safety.  A typical example would be array bounds checking.  Since the C standard does not require such checks, most C compilers don't generate them.
2020-07-19T08:37:14Z shangul: That's true. But don't you think performance of CL on ARM is too poor comparing to C?
2020-07-19T08:38:00Z beach: Now, there is a lot of undefined behavior in the Common Lisp standard as well, but historically, Common Lisp implementations try to keep the code safe.  For a Common Lisp implementation to be as fast as the best C compiler, you would have to change that fact.  And then you would have a Common Lisp system that crashes when you make a mistake, rather than signaling an error.
2020-07-19T08:38:16Z beach: I haven't looked into that, actually.
2020-07-19T08:38:45Z beach: But you are probably right.  I think told you before that it is simply the case that less time has been spent on optimizations for ARM.
2020-07-19T08:39:55Z shangul: Ok. If I wished to do so, my goal wouldn't be "as fast as C" but "faster than what it is now"
2020-07-19T08:40:35Z beach: Anyway, if you want to start optimizing some existing implementation for ARM, you have a lot to learn first.  You need to understand how the implementation represented code in intermediate and low-level form.  Then you need to read up on compiler technology (I recommend Muchnick's book for an overview).  Finally, you need to implement those techniques.
2020-07-19T08:40:52Z fbmnds joined #lisp
2020-07-19T08:41:13Z fbmnds: jackdaniel: thx
2020-07-19T08:41:37Z beach: shangul: Muchnick's book is good as an overview of what exists, but his algorithmic language sucks, so I always go find the original papers after I read a chapter in the book.
2020-07-19T08:43:23Z beach: shangul: You probably also need to get an idea of the relative performance of different ARM instructions, and that information may vary according to the chips.
2020-07-19T08:43:46Z fbmnds left #lisp
2020-07-19T08:44:27Z beach: shangul: But as a general estimation, register operations are fast.  If you go to the L1 cache, you take a factor 5 or so performance hit.  More in L2 and L3 (if there is one), and up to a factor 100 if you need to go to memory.
2020-07-19T08:44:54Z beach: shangul: So the main idea these days is to avoid memory operations if possible.
2020-07-19T08:45:29Z beach: shangul: Oh, and then you need to read up on synchronization, because we must now plan for thread safety.
2020-07-19T08:46:38Z beach: shangul: You may actually find that, in the implementation you are thinking of, memory management was designed at a time when memory accesses and register operations had roughly the same cost, so you may have to redesign the memory manager.
2020-07-19T08:47:38Z Guest98444 joined #lisp
2020-07-19T08:47:42Z beach: shangul: Then, you might discover that the data representation was designed without threads in mind, so that there are way more locks that you would want.  As a result, you may have to redesign the entire way data is represented so that it will be a better fit for threading.
2020-07-19T08:48:52Z beach: shangul: And you may find that the importance of cache memory was not as great when the implementation was designed as it is now, so there are lots of things you might have to alter in order to improve locality.
2020-07-19T08:49:41Z kapil_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-19T08:49:55Z beach: To take but one example, a typical copying garbage collector accesses memory a lot, and when you move code, the instruction cache may very well be trashed.
2020-07-19T08:50:02Z beach: Shall I go on?
2020-07-19T08:51:17Z beach: shangul: Part of the reason I started the SICL project was that I was totally convinced that it would be much harder to transform an existing implementation into something that would be adapted to the architectures of today, than to start a new implementation from scratch.
2020-07-19T08:52:05Z shangul: I should go but my client is open so that I'll read them later.
2020-07-19T08:52:11Z kapil_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T08:52:36Z beach: I think I have said most of what came to mind.
2020-07-19T08:55:03Z beach: Oh, but wait, when you said "How about optimizing existing CL compilers for ARM ...", perhaps you meant "How about you guys get your act together and work to optimize for ARM as well..."?  If so, I may have bad news for you.  People don't sit around waiting for others to suggest work for them.
2020-07-19T08:59:22Z lerax quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T09:00:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-19T09:01:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:02:36Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:04:00Z Retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:12:35Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:14:55Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T09:15:58Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:22:31Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T09:23:38Z anatrope joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:25:54Z kleptoflora quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T09:29:39Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:30:04Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T09:30:20Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:33:42Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T09:33:49Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:34:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T09:34:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:36:35Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T09:36:42Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:38:11Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T09:38:26Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:38:27Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:39:23Z luna_is_here_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T09:41:03Z shangul: beach, I just read all of your messages. By "How about optimizing existing CL compilers for ARM..." I meant if this is a good work/idea for myself.
2020-07-19T09:41:34Z beach: Oh, definitely.  But it's a long-term project and it is not going to be easy.
2020-07-19T09:41:49Z shangul: beach, Isn't it better that for now I just learn ARM assembly and in the future when I studied the Compiler Design lesson in uni, look into compilers?
2020-07-19T09:42:03Z beach: You can do that, sure.
2020-07-19T09:42:27Z beach: I would drop the 32-bit version, though.
2020-07-19T09:42:39Z beach: Concentrate on 64-bit.
2020-07-19T09:42:49Z shangul: My current decision's that I don't want to spend a LOT of time on that...
2020-07-19T09:42:58Z shangul: beach, you mean 32 bit ARM?
2020-07-19T09:43:02Z beach: Yeah.
2020-07-19T09:43:11Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:43:13Z shangul: But the device which I've got is 32 bit
2020-07-19T09:43:13Z beach: I think you mentioned 32-bit arm.
2020-07-19T09:43:24Z beach: I see.
2020-07-19T09:43:38Z shangul: Also lots of SBCs have 32 bit ARM rather than 64
2020-07-19T09:43:43Z shangul: let me check to make sure
2020-07-19T09:44:17Z beach: My prediction is that, by the time you get around to working on a Common Lisp compiler, there won't be any 32-bit platforms left that can run a modern Common Lisp implementation.
2020-07-19T09:44:21Z beach: I may be wrong of course.
2020-07-19T09:44:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T09:45:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:46:13Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T09:46:22Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:48:25Z shka_: it is possible for 32 bits to stick around here and there
2020-07-19T09:48:54Z shka_: mostly for embedded systems that don't need a lot of memory
2020-07-19T09:49:06Z shka_: but why would you program that in lisp?
2020-07-19T09:49:31Z shka_: well, other than "because lisp is cool"
2020-07-19T09:52:08Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T09:52:23Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:53:36Z shka_: otherwise, yeah it seems that ARM is the future of the desktops
2020-07-19T09:56:44Z Guest98444 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T09:59:43Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-19T09:59:55Z beach: Well, that's not my analysis.  In fact, if I were in shangul's position, I would bet that RISC-V is going to kill both ARM and x86.  Then I would have a few years to figure out the best code generation of a Common Lisp compiler, and I would be ahead of the competition.
2020-07-19T10:00:28Z phoe: or lose the bet
2020-07-19T10:00:36Z beach: Of course, since shangul doesn't have a RISC-V device either, an emulator would have to be used, or a device would have to be bought.
2020-07-19T10:01:17Z beach: phoe: Sure, there is that possibility.
2020-07-19T10:01:44Z beach: But then the RISC-V instruction set would not be too bad for a bytecode interpreter.
2020-07-19T10:03:07Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T10:05:11Z shka_: beach: hm, why so high hopes for RISC-V?
2020-07-19T10:05:47Z beach: Because I have read up and I have followed several talks about it.
2020-07-19T10:06:15Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:06:30Z shka_: and you consider it that good?
2020-07-19T10:07:17Z shangul: beach, If I had enough money, I would buy another NanoPi NEO and host it in my grandpa's house and use it as a server.
2020-07-19T10:07:25Z shangul: They're cute, you know
2020-07-19T10:08:08Z beach: shka_: It has several positive sides to it.  First, the instruction set is not controlled by a commercial company.  Second, it doesn't have any historical baggage, so the design is more orthogonal than existing ones.
2020-07-19T10:08:24Z beach: shangul: I take your word for it.
2020-07-19T10:08:48Z shka_: beach: got it
2020-07-19T10:08:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:08:53Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:09:14Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:09:26Z beach: shka_: Furthermore, one convincing argument is that the same basic instruction set can be used in several situations, like mobile, desktop, micro controllers, GPUs etc., so that the toolchains can be reused for different purposes.
2020-07-19T10:09:32Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:09:48Z shka_: uhm, ok
2020-07-19T10:09:52Z beach: shka_: But don't take my word for it.  I suggest you read up and watch a few talks like I did.  Then we can see what you think.
2020-07-19T10:10:23Z shka_: well, i am really not a hardware expert
2020-07-19T10:10:26Z shka_: not a single bit
2020-07-19T10:10:34Z shka_: so my opinion is not all that important
2020-07-19T10:10:38Z shka_: or useful
2020-07-19T10:11:19Z beach: I am not an expert either.  I studied computer architecture a bit, but that's it.
2020-07-19T10:11:27Z shka_: common instruction set for GPU and CPU sounds interesting though
2020-07-19T10:11:39Z beach: And disk controllers, and, and ....
2020-07-19T10:12:15Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:12:20Z shka_: yes, this as well, but well i am in the machine learning crowd
2020-07-19T10:12:39Z shka_: and this would mean OpenCL would become even better
2020-07-19T10:12:55Z shka_: so this is why i care
2020-07-19T10:13:44Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:13:46Z beach: I took a graduate-level course for Jim Goodman the inventor of the cache-coherence protocol, and of the speculative lock-elision protocol.
2020-07-19T10:14:09Z shka_: I will watch some talks anyway, good for treadmill at least :-)
2020-07-19T10:14:21Z beach: Oh, yes, NVIDIA is creating a processor based on RISC-V for machine learning.
2020-07-19T10:14:29Z shka_: really?
2020-07-19T10:14:32Z beach: Yes.
2020-07-19T10:14:36Z shka_: this is not very nvidia thing to do
2020-07-19T10:15:01Z beach: NVDLA
2020-07-19T10:15:14Z beach: NVIDIA Deep Learning Accelerator.
2020-07-19T10:15:21Z shka_: wow
2020-07-19T10:16:01Z beach: I guess I got your attention now? :)
2020-07-19T10:16:22Z shka_: yes, and i dislike nvidia slightly less now
2020-07-19T10:16:33Z iissaacc: beach, this is interesting, do you have any links to RISC-V stuff you'd recommend
2020-07-19T10:16:58Z beach: I haven't archived any.  I would start on YouTube with some recent presentation.
2020-07-19T10:17:23Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:19:30Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:19:52Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T10:20:28Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:20:58Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:21:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:23:10Z beach: There is lots of stuff to do for Common Lisp on RISC-V, like determining a good function-call protocol, figuring out the best way to handle overflow of fixnum addition, how to implement generic dispatch, etc.
2020-07-19T10:23:25Z shka_: this reminds me of 80s transputers
2020-07-19T10:23:26Z d4ryus quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-19T10:23:34Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:23:45Z beach: ... handling multiple values.  Memory management, synchronization.
2020-07-19T10:24:21Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:24:25Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T10:24:36Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:25:28Z jackdaniel: the key feature (from adoption perspective) it is that it doesn't require royalty fees for implementing it in hardware
2020-07-19T10:25:43Z jackdaniel: (unlike i.e arm)
2020-07-19T10:26:17Z beach: Exactly.  That's what I meant by "not being controlled by a commercial company", but you are right to emphasize that.
2020-07-19T10:27:22Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:27:46Z beach: And since the instruction set is extensible, people who are into such things could figure out some extension for Common Lisp.
2020-07-19T10:27:54Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:27:56Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-19T10:28:22Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T10:28:23Z beach: More generally, figure out how to best use the existing instruction set(s) for executing Common Lisp code.
2020-07-19T10:28:50Z jackdaniel: talking about extensibility, I'd love it if the idea proposed by the synq chip was adopted broadly - they put a cpu (arm cpu though) and a fpga on the same bus, so it was possible to reprogram hardware from linux :)
2020-07-19T10:28:56Z jackdaniel: s/synq/zynq/
2020-07-19T10:29:14Z beach: That's cute.
2020-07-19T10:29:27Z shka_: that's also why intel bought altera
2020-07-19T10:29:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:29:47Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:29:54Z jackdaniel: I can imagine compilation with (declare (optimize (compilation-speed 0) (speed 3))) putting a function as a hardware submodule ;-)
2020-07-19T10:29:55Z shka_: by putting fpga on the CPU dice, they can fight those pesky semi-custom designs
2020-07-19T10:30:13Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:30:14Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:30:35Z jackdaniel: it depends on size of the fpga (i.e how much you can put on it and how many pins are available)
2020-07-19T10:32:44Z lukego: Hey is there an easy way to see SBCL IR code? like an IR version of DISASSEMBLE or suchlike?
2020-07-19T10:32:45Z shka_: actually, now when i think about it, it is possible that there will be flood of semi custom RISC-V at some point
2020-07-19T10:35:18Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:38:12Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T10:38:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T10:38:42Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:39:22Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:43:57Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:48:06Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:50:43Z lonjil: The European Union is currently planning to build several large supercomputers in the next couple of years, that will use ARM CPUs, and custom RISC-V accelerator chips.
2020-07-19T10:50:55Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:51:12Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:51:15Z lonjil: (And hopefully, a few years after that, RISC-V is mature enough for the CPUs of any new supercomputers)
2020-07-19T10:53:07Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:53:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:54:03Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T10:54:07Z terpri__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:55:50Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T10:55:58Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-19T10:58:35Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T11:04:11Z p_l: jackdaniel: the speed drop of talking to the FPGA side is significant enough that it won't work that nice
2020-07-19T11:06:04Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T11:16:24Z jackdaniel: phoe: programming fpga is slow, but other than that it is ordinary hardware device
2020-07-19T11:16:29Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-19T11:19:09Z jackdaniel: p_l: ^
2020-07-19T11:19:47Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-19T11:20:43Z p_l: jackdaniel: yes, and you will suffer all the typical peripheral device issues if you just try to wrap a random function in it, as they are not connected by coprocessor port but are plain MMIO devices (essentially, you have common access to memory bus, and FPGA using it impacts CPU performance negatively)
2020-07-19T11:20:46Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T11:23:34Z jackdaniel: the part about a function compiled to hardware device was a joke, however specialized hardware to smooth computations is a thing (i.e a gpu, or a decode etc)
2020-07-19T11:24:38Z jackdaniel: s/decode/decoder/
2020-07-19T11:25:17Z p_l: well, yes. though for all practical purposes the performance option in this case would not be Zynq, but one of the Xeons with embedded Altera FPGA, or a POWER9/10 with CAPI-attached FPGA
2020-07-19T11:25:50Z p_l: (CAPI nicely enough has a library to generalize attachment to accelerator device)
2020-07-19T11:26:12Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T11:27:26Z jackdaniel: I've worked with zynq (not on the fpga part though), and my co-worker implemented a device to speed up graphical rendering on it, I don't know details but it was certainly commercial project with practical purpose
2020-07-19T11:27:37Z jackdaniel: that said, I think we got into offtopic (what is admittedly my fault)
2020-07-19T11:32:40Z lerax joined #lisp
2020-07-19T11:35:42Z froggey: beach: RISC-V strikes me as a particularly poor target for CL. it doesn't have a reg+reg addressing mode, so array accesses need to construct interior pointers to objects, which complicates the GC
2020-07-19T11:35:53Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2020-07-19T11:42:59Z borodust quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T11:46:59Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T11:48:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T11:49:17Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-19T11:54:33Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-19T11:54:34Z vornth quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T11:56:23Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T11:58:35Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T11:59:03Z beach: froggey: I see.
2020-07-19T12:00:30Z beach: froggey: Do you mean "complicates" in that the GC has to know which registers contain Common Lisp objects and which registers don't?
2020-07-19T12:01:07Z loke: I made the silliest mistake just now... A CLX display object has a plist, and I needed to set the value for :XIM to an instance of xim. So I did this:
2020-07-19T12:01:31Z loke: (setf (get :xim (display-plist DISPLAY)) xim)
2020-07-19T12:01:59Z loke: everything worked fine, but for some reason I never saw the plist itself change. Pop quiz: What did I actually do?
2020-07-19T12:03:17Z lonjil: Symbol plist of :xim
2020-07-19T12:03:34Z phoe: you meant getf
2020-07-19T12:04:12Z beach: That's nasty.
2020-07-19T12:07:20Z shka_: i think it is funny :-)
2020-07-19T12:14:26Z notzmv quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T12:14:50Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:17:30Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T12:17:47Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T12:18:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:23:01Z froggey: beach: no, complicates as in the GC now needs to efficiently be able to convert interior pointers back to there original objects
2020-07-19T12:23:39Z froggey: assuming that the GC can interrupt the program at mostly arbitrary points
2020-07-19T12:23:41Z Codaraxis_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:23:49Z rixard_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:23:56Z minion quit (Disconnected by services)
2020-07-19T12:23:59Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:24:38Z froggey: it's not a particularly difficult issue to resolve, but it's just more added work
2020-07-19T12:24:54Z technobe` joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:24:54Z aap_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:25:06Z Misha_B` joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:25:11Z Harag` joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:25:28Z mgsk- joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:25:38Z jurov_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:25:47Z johnweldon joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:26:12Z aindilis` joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:26:14Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:26:30Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T12:26:53Z beach: froggey: Oh, I was just thinking of making sure that the original object is still referred to, either by a different register or by some stack location.
2020-07-19T12:26:58Z logicmoo joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:27:07Z ayuce` joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:27:45Z beach: Also, I would think it is already complicated to allow for a GC to happen at any point in time.
2020-07-19T12:27:54Z froggey: right. that's reasonable a solution, tying the register that holds the interior pointer to another register (or stack location) that holds the original object
2020-07-19T12:27:57Z jbgg_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:28:05Z beach: Yeah.
2020-07-19T12:28:12Z vert2_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:28:17Z srji_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:28:18Z flip214_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:28:20Z beach: And RISC-V has plenty of registers.
2020-07-19T12:28:29Z em-bee joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:28:38Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:28:41Z shrysr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:28:49Z SAL9000_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:31:07Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:31:27Z kopiyka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T12:31:36Z seisatsu_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:31:44Z narendraj9_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:31:52Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z shangul quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z ayuce quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z technobean quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z gaqwas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z rixard quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z srji quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z jw4 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z Misha_B quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z aindilis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z wooden quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:55Z Codaraxis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z Harag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z narendraj9 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z jurov quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z jbgg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z bacterio quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z catern quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z eMBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z dmiles quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z samebchase quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z mgsk_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z sukaeto quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z Colleen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z APic quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z tychoish quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z karstensrage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z SAL9000 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z shrysr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z seisatsu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z thijso quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z vert2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-19T12:32:56Z getha joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:32:59Z narendraj9_ is now known as narendraj9
2020-07-19T12:32:59Z v88m quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T12:33:24Z Colleen joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:34:07Z tychoish joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:35:19Z thecoffemaker quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T12:35:31Z karstensrage_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:36:01Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:39:36Z thecoffemaker joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:39:41Z sukaeto joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:39:43Z bacterio joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:39:44Z APic joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:40:14Z samebchase joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:40:57Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:41:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T12:46:17Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:46:32Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-19T12:47:37Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T12:58:40Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:00:16Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:00:40Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:01:11Z Inline quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-19T13:04:22Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:05:08Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:22:11Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T13:22:41Z lukego: I'm a little fascinated by the idea of Lisp for embedded systems e.g. on RISCV lately. The picture I have in my mind is a big heavy workstation for development and then the little embedded system running minimal code e.g. without much/any lisp runtime system. maybe along the lines of Squeak's "Slang" having a relatively weak language that can be translated to bare metal C but can also be run as Lisp for devel/debug
2020-07-19T13:23:02Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:23:15Z lukego: I saw there was an ELS talk about Lisp generating C/C++/CUDA recentlyish, looked really interesting I thought
2020-07-19T13:23:39Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-19T13:24:37Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-19T13:24:42Z lukego: Silly question maybe but would it be better if SLIME made all objects into presentations - e.g. each individual element of each list that is printed in the REPL? what if it also provided CLIM style commands where you can select args from the presentations in emacs?
2020-07-19T13:24:44Z phoe: C-Mera possibly?
2020-07-19T13:24:59Z lukego: somehow it feels weird that only the top-level object is a presentation
2020-07-19T13:25:04Z SAL9000_ is now known as SAL9000
2020-07-19T13:25:04Z lukego: (how was it on Genera?)
2020-07-19T13:25:45Z beach: lukego: You can try the CLIM listener if you want to do stuff like that.
2020-07-19T13:27:40Z beach: lukego: With McCLIM, you have the listener, a "debugger" (which is really a backtrace inspector), and Clouseau which is an inspector that is way more competent than the SLIME inspector.
2020-07-19T13:28:55Z beach: Plus, the listener REPL is in the CLIM-USER package by default, so you can invoke CLIM functions at the REPL to draw things.
2020-07-19T13:28:57Z lukego: Right. I guess I'm wondering if it would be a big step towards CLIM for SLIME to just have finer grained presentations and also commands. I like the presentations-and-commands UI paradigm and I miss having it since I prefer to live in Emacs
2020-07-19T13:29:36Z lukego: I wonder if Emacs could draw things too e.g. inline SVG. I'm not sure how that support is nowadays realistically.
2020-07-19T13:29:37Z elflng quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T13:29:49Z borodust joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:30:25Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:31:27Z lukego: I've been meaning to try using org-babel instead of the REPL but old habbits are hard to break..
2020-07-19T13:31:47Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T13:33:29Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:34:22Z lukego: (it would be nice if the Emacs and McCLIM universes would play nicely together somehow. I like the idea of McCLIM but it feels like I have to give up too much to go that route.)
2020-07-19T13:37:08Z johnweldon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T13:39:14Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:40:37Z beach: We are working on making it less painful to give up Emacs.  But it's going to take some more time.
2020-07-19T13:41:03Z beach: And by "give up Emacs" I mean just for editing Common Lisp code.
2020-07-19T13:41:31Z beach: And, yes, I am aware that there are advantages to having a single editor for everything.
2020-07-19T13:41:58Z beach: But the plan is to make the Common Lisp editor so good for editing Common Lisp code that it is irresistible.
2020-07-19T13:44:01Z lonjil: Will work well for me, since I already only use Emacs for CL. (Mostly Vim for everything else)
2020-07-19T13:46:35Z lerax quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T13:49:44Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:50:55Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:51:55Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:52:44Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T13:53:24Z elflng quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T13:53:57Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:55:46Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-19T13:56:56Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T13:58:29Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:05:04Z lukego: beach: would be really cool. lots of people use and love the Lispworks IDE so that's a sign that there's room for competition with Emacs.
2020-07-19T14:07:50Z lukego: I've been using Blender a bit lately and that whole UI is just completely ❤️ that it makes Emacs feel like pico.
2020-07-19T14:08:20Z terpri_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T14:08:36Z lukego: not so much the programming features as the general "power user" feel
2020-07-19T14:08:42Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:10:08Z beach: Yes, I see.
2020-07-19T14:10:41Z p_l: lukego: a non-trivial part of what people love about LW IDE relates specifically to LW runtime more so than the IDE itself
2020-07-19T14:11:04Z p_l: Things like tracing macros, or working WHO-CALLS database
2020-07-19T14:11:49Z p_l: lukego: as for CL generating code for smaller embedded system, that's how at least the original Roomba was programmed
2020-07-19T14:11:49Z lukego: fair enough. but they are still willing to "pay the price" of not using Emacs for those features. and I suppose quite a few people are put off learning Lisp in the first place because of Emacs.
2020-07-19T14:14:17Z lukego: I'd really like a "worse is better" version of CLIM personally. that's what makes me wonder if SLIME could have a contrib/worse-clim.el that gave me basics like more pervasive presentations and commands.
2020-07-19T14:15:28Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-19T14:16:23Z p_l: I've been needling someone to fund my LW obsession just so I could easily make a GUI
2020-07-19T14:17:07Z arpunk joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:17:39Z lukego: but also maybe the repl is fine for me really, I don't have a good reason to be thinking about presentations etc at the moment. just something that pops up in the mind sometimes.
2020-07-19T14:20:19Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:24:46Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:26:29Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-19T14:28:57Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:29:34Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T14:30:11Z lukego: it's amazing the timescales that Lisp plays out over :). just reflecting that the one time I wrote a little McCLIM app was like 15 years ago.
2020-07-19T14:31:15Z beach: Yeah, McCLIM basically started happening in 2000.  Mike McDonald had written some code before that, and so had gilberth, but that's when it really started happening.
2020-07-19T14:31:31Z aindilis` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T14:31:54Z beach: In Bordeaux, at LSM/RMLL.
2020-07-19T14:33:39Z beach: I needed a GUI library for Gsharp, so I got the ball rolling.
2020-07-19T14:34:06Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:34:54Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T14:36:11Z lukego: Are you still are Bordeaux, btw? (pardon my out of the loopedness, haven't been keeping up much since ECLMs)
2020-07-19T14:36:11Z elflng quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T14:36:21Z beach: I am, yes.
2020-07-19T14:36:49Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:38:54Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:41:01Z jackdaniel: McCLIM was once considered young compared to symbolic's clim, however now McCLIM has 20 years while CLIM-TOS has 30 years, so the relative gap is closing :)
2020-07-19T14:41:13Z jackdaniel: beach: did you manage to start clovetree?
2020-07-19T14:41:39Z beach: jackdaniel: I haven't had time to try it yet.  I'll do that now.
2020-07-19T14:41:50Z jackdaniel: no rush, I was just worried that you've encountered some problems
2020-07-19T14:41:58Z beach: Not yet. :)
2020-07-19T14:42:01Z jackdaniel: hah
2020-07-19T14:43:07Z jackdaniel: lukego: one day I'd love to be able to do: (ed (open-project "~/my-project/")) from the console and have full featured CLIM ide open
2020-07-19T14:46:37Z lukego: I'm learning electronics now. I want to design circuit boards that feature FPGAs prominently and then fabricate, assemble, and program them. So I'm kind of imagining a suite of homebrew Lisp CAD code. very vague at this stage :) but has some graphical nature - circuit board design is similar to vector graphics with various constraints (e.g. lines can't cross or come within distance X of each other, etc)
2020-07-19T14:48:14Z lukego: Just now coming to the part about writing code. Had to learn how to solder first :). Seems like PCB design is a bunch of sub-problems that have to awkwardly/heuristically fit together and each probably has its own fundamental data structures. e.g. problem of untangling the grid of pins under a chip verses problem of connecting two chips together without creating new tangles in the process
2020-07-19T14:48:15Z elflng quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T14:49:12Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:51:32Z lukego: Standard open source CAD tools like KiCad seem to take a very concrete central data structure, basically a multilayer vector graphics drawing, and do most things manually. I'd like to try doing things more abstractly where the master data is a bunch of custom objects/data-structures and the concrete layouts are more like pretty-printed output of those.
2020-07-19T14:51:39Z SAL9000: lukego: plus routing rules for certain signal types, on top of that
2020-07-19T14:52:08Z lukego: yeah. and at this stage it's not clear if I'll end up really using the software, or just write it as a vehicle for understanding how the hell this stuff works :)
2020-07-19T14:52:13Z SAL9000: e.g. the traces for USB differential pairs have to have equal length to within a certain precision
2020-07-19T14:52:16Z jackdaniel: embedded systems are a lot of fun, but eventually you get fed up with C and Verilog
2020-07-19T14:52:25Z elflng quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T14:54:10Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:55:02Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-19T14:59:48Z aap_ is now known as aap
2020-07-19T15:03:07Z beach: jackdaniel: I can execute it no problem.
2020-07-19T15:03:07Z elflng quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T15:03:32Z beach: I'll play around with it during the coming week.
2020-07-19T15:03:51Z beach: But I need to finish my presentation for the online Lisp meeting first.
2020-07-19T15:04:00Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:04:14Z loke: phoe: yeah, I ended up setting the NIL member of :XIM's plist :-)
2020-07-19T15:05:01Z Josh_2: afternoon
2020-07-19T15:09:55Z elflng quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T15:10:17Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:10:37Z jackdaniel: beach: thanks for confirmation
2020-07-19T15:11:03Z Josh_2: how do I see the lisp meeting?
2020-07-19T15:11:47Z easye: Josh_2: the Online Lisp Meeting?  It will be streamed through twitch.tv, and later available on YouTube.
2020-07-19T15:11:57Z Josh_2: okay
2020-07-19T15:12:05Z Josh_2: Is there gonna be a notification in here?
2020-07-19T15:12:30Z easye: Josh_2: Maybe, but see <https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/hsa0m2/online_lisp_meeting_5/> for more information.
2020-07-19T15:13:36Z TwoNotes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T15:14:02Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:16:30Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:18:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:20:47Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:22:04Z phoe: Josh_2: I'll post a few minutes before it begins
2020-07-19T15:22:12Z phoe: the mailgroup has an ical invitation
2020-07-19T15:22:30Z Josh_2: how do I add myself to that?
2020-07-19T15:22:37Z phoe: https://mailman.common-lisp.net/listinfo/online-lisp-meets
2020-07-19T15:24:09Z Josh_2: Awesome thanks
2020-07-19T15:27:38Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:28:21Z nirved: lukego: one could display images in repl, here is a svg example: https://gist.github.com/nirved/e59aa01f2cd6d75ca6d5dde08c037519
2020-07-19T15:28:30Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:29:54Z borodust quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T15:35:35Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:41:01Z dredrim joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:43:45Z thetabit joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:44:32Z lukego: nirved: thanks!
2020-07-19T15:45:10Z lukego: maybe swank:eval-in-emacs could be abused in a lot of interesting and convenient ways..
2020-07-19T15:45:49Z thetabit: Hello everyone, I just found this channel on common-lisp.net, was curious if this would be a proper place to discuss specific technical aspects of cl?
2020-07-19T15:45:56Z phoe: yep
2020-07-19T15:45:58Z phoe: what's up?
2020-07-19T15:49:19Z thetabit: Awesome, so I was curious about the use of the format function. I have been using it, especially for producing sql and php code for my job. (since I hate writing this code directly) I have been using post modern for the sql, but for php I am generating code based on our companies style... Things are going great, but I feel very dirty using the format function? Is this my imagination? I wanted to know if the format function is
2020-07-19T15:49:19Z thetabit: appropriate to use all the time?
2020-07-19T15:49:34Z phoe: eww
2020-07-19T15:49:43Z phoe: that sounds like a SQL injection simulator
2020-07-19T15:50:22Z phoe: postmodern has its own S-expression based DSL for generating SQL that should work better than operating on raw strings
2020-07-19T15:50:55Z phoe: I mean, (format nil "SELECT ~A FROM users;" ...) is easily abusable if the user somehow controls ~A
2020-07-19T15:51:25Z thetabit: yes, this is just for me for producing the source code, that is committed so no other devs are using this
2020-07-19T15:51:46Z phoe: oh, you mean that you use Lisp to produce source code for other people
2020-07-19T15:51:57Z thetabit: correct
2020-07-19T15:51:59Z phoe: so not in actual application code
2020-07-19T15:52:04Z thetabit: correct
2020-07-19T15:52:05Z phoe: I guess that works well enough then
2020-07-19T15:53:36Z Josh_2: Does this mean you have a common lisp to PHP library :P
2020-07-19T15:53:36Z _death: thetabit: there are alternatives to format.. for example the approach described in http://cs-www.cs.yale.edu/homes/dvm/format-stinks.html
2020-07-19T15:53:41Z pve: thetabit: you probably need to apply some kind of escape function to some (all?) of your format arguments
2020-07-19T15:54:39Z _death: thetabit: such an operator can be further extended so that you can easily generate ad-hoc code
2020-07-19T15:54:51Z thetabit: @Josh, yeah, I have been producing very specific php code for my company lol. They are a Russian team and have a very particular format that they use, so I just automate must of it away
2020-07-19T15:55:39Z Josh_2: thats pretty awesome
2020-07-19T15:55:56Z Josh_2: maybe you could make this library public?
2020-07-19T15:56:16Z thetabit: _death, thanks for that article, I've been looking for counter arguments
2020-07-19T15:56:38Z thetabit: Josh, yeah, I will probably release the generalized code
2020-07-19T15:58:01Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T15:58:05Z thetabit: It became clear that I could generalize the code, and then automate specific idioms that the companies use, while also not failing code reviews ;)
2020-07-19T15:58:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T15:58:51Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:00:24Z Josh_2: yes that is very cool
2020-07-19T16:01:42Z nckx quit (Quit: Updating my Guix System — https://guix.gnu.org)
2020-07-19T16:02:02Z nckx joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:02:11Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T16:04:46Z RedMallet quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-19T16:07:12Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:08:17Z nckx quit (Quit: Updating my Guix System — https://guix.gnu.org)
2020-07-19T16:08:40Z _death: thetabit: here's an example how it might look like.. https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1962#1962 (in actuality, there are a few more macros on top to make it a bit cleaner)
2020-07-19T16:08:47Z nckx joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:09:47Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T16:10:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:10:41Z thetabit: whoa
2020-07-19T16:12:12Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:15:17Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T16:16:03Z Jeanne-Kamikaze joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:21:14Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:22:55Z Oladon: Anyone know if eugeneia hangs out here under some other name?
2020-07-19T16:23:21Z phoe: I think I remember that he used to use the handle mrottenkolber
2020-07-19T16:23:56Z Oladon: Hrm, well, that's not promising -- auto away on 3/25
2020-07-19T16:24:05Z Oladon: phoe: Thankee for the helpful information.
2020-07-19T16:24:30Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T16:24:45Z phoe: Xach: please don't try to build clcs-code yet, I'm figuring out the repository structure where I can both have a complete repo for Apress and have separate repos for clcs-code and portable-condition-system
2020-07-19T16:25:14Z phoe: s/yet/now/
2020-07-19T16:25:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:35:23Z entel joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:36:57Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-19T16:41:30Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T16:42:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:45:49Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-19T16:46:13Z borodust joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:47:31Z abhixec joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:49:54Z frgo_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:50:50Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:52:22Z frgo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T16:52:56Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-19T16:53:47Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T16:53:58Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T16:54:39Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:57:50Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T16:58:02Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:59:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T16:59:37Z lambda-smith quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T17:03:40Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:05:59Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T17:06:13Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:08:28Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T17:13:15Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:14:08Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T17:15:29Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T17:15:54Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:15:59Z lambda-smith quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T17:16:10Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T17:18:05Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:18:53Z adlai: shka_:  please please PLEASE DEAR GOD don't ever make that fucking dies/dice typo ever ever again
2020-07-19T17:20:35Z phoe: adlai: huh
2020-07-19T17:20:51Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:20:58Z adlai: phoe: perhaps an intended pun got run over by the chat.
2020-07-19T17:21:15Z phoe: I can't see shka_ saying "dies", at least according to the tymoon log
2020-07-19T17:21:28Z adlai: the typo was 'cpu dice'
2020-07-19T17:21:33Z phoe: this is not a typo
2020-07-19T17:21:37Z phoe: https://www.grammarly.com/blog/dice-die/
2020-07-19T17:21:38Z adlai: then it should be.
2020-07-19T17:21:53Z phoe: it should, but it isn't - welcome to English
2020-07-19T17:22:11Z phoe: the greatest living statue of backwards compatibility on Earth.
2020-07-19T17:22:13Z adlai: no thank you, welcome to "live languages can shock your nuts off if you listen to grammarly"
2020-07-19T17:22:27Z phoe: I consider that to be equivalent
2020-07-19T17:22:38Z adlai: this conversation is henceforth off-topic.
2020-07-19T17:22:52Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T17:23:07Z adlai reads that blog post with baited fangs
2020-07-19T17:23:13Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:23:17Z phoe: truth is, that conversation was off topic from the start
2020-07-19T17:23:24Z phoe cocks gun
2020-07-19T17:23:33Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:23:46Z Oladon: So... Lisp... anyone have any experience with maxpc, and/or want to help me figure it out? :P
2020-07-19T17:24:04Z adlai: for all I know, the author of that blog post never even saw a photograph of a silicon ingot being drawn, sliced, nor verified as NOT BEING A CASINO DICE
2020-07-19T17:24:24Z Oladon: phoe: *dangles Lispy problem*
2020-07-19T17:24:38Z adlai: it is better for the plural of the determinist noun to collide against a verb conjugation, than for the two plural nouns of differing determinist to collide against eachother.
2020-07-19T17:24:56Z phoe gently sends adlai to #lispcafe
2020-07-19T17:25:05Z phoe: Oladon: what's the concrete question?
2020-07-19T17:25:19Z phoe: there seems to be a decent manual over at https://mr.gy/software/maxpc/api.html
2020-07-19T17:25:38Z Oladon: Yeah, that's what I'm referencing. I'm trying to figure out how to set this up so that one parser matches the value matched by an earlier parser in the series.
2020-07-19T17:25:44Z Oladon: In cl-parser-combinators you'd use mdo for that
2020-07-19T17:25:56Z adlai left #lisp
2020-07-19T17:26:40Z Oladon: I thought I could do it by nesting =destructure, but it doesn't seem to be working -- it's eventually returning a closure instead of my result
2020-07-19T17:27:27Z Oladon: I.e. I'm trying to parse "bxb" or "cxc" or "dxd" but ensure that the last letter matches the first
2020-07-19T17:40:04Z shka_: Oladon: well, do you know how parser combinators work internally?
2020-07-19T17:40:13Z Oladon: Yes...
2020-07-19T17:41:24Z shka_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context-free_grammar
2020-07-19T17:41:29Z Misha_B` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T17:41:48Z Misha_B` joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:41:48Z Misha_B` quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-19T17:41:55Z shka_: Oladon: so the thing is you are describing is not a context free grammar AFAIK
2020-07-19T17:42:13Z Misha_B joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:42:45Z shka_: while you gonna need recursive context
2020-07-19T17:42:50Z shka_: in a form of stack probably
2020-07-19T17:44:10Z shka_: anyway, you will likely need some other parser
2020-07-19T17:44:18Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:44:26Z Oladon: shka_: I'm really just looking for library help. As I said, I can do it just fine in cl-parser-combinators using mdo, just trying to figure out the analog in maxpc.
2020-07-19T17:44:42Z shka_: oh, how?
2020-07-19T17:44:58Z shka_: as is: can you show your source code
2020-07-19T17:47:16Z Oladon: Is that going to help you help somehow?
2020-07-19T17:47:36Z shka_: no, i am just curious, i was not expecting this to be possible
2020-07-19T17:47:44Z shka_: sorry for bothering you
2020-07-19T17:48:00Z Oladon: You're fine, just tone is hard to read over chat.
2020-07-19T17:48:21Z Oladon: In cl-parser-combinators there's a monadic do (mdo) which allows you to use <- for binding.
2020-07-19T17:48:38Z Oladon: So you can do (mdo (<- x1 parser1) (<- x2 (parser2 x1)))
2020-07-19T17:49:10Z shka_: yeah, i just checked how it is implemented
2020-07-19T17:49:13Z shka_: clever!
2020-07-19T17:49:17Z Oladon: indeed
2020-07-19T17:49:37Z Oladon: So I figure there must be something analogous in maxpc, just can't quite figure it out
2020-07-19T17:49:52Z shka_: i wouldn't be so sure about this
2020-07-19T17:50:15Z shka_: that mdo trick goes ever so slightly over the parser combinators paradgim
2020-07-19T17:50:25Z shka_: but let me take a look
2020-07-19T17:51:24Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:51:43Z Oladon: Article about the library here: https://mr.gy/blog/maxpc.html
2020-07-19T17:51:56Z shka_: yeah
2020-07-19T17:52:12Z Oladon: Hmm, maybe I can use a combination of =transform and setf
2020-07-19T17:52:18Z shka_: so i glanced over the source code, it seems to be very pure library
2020-07-19T17:52:50Z flip214_ is now known as flip214
2020-07-19T17:55:38Z shka_: Oladon: i still suspect that you won't be able to this with maxpc though
2020-07-19T17:56:16Z shka_: i can't see how it would passes context around at least
2020-07-19T17:56:49Z Oladon: Aha!
2020-07-19T17:56:53Z Oladon: I can do it with the transform and setf
2020-07-19T17:56:57Z Oladon: It's a bit ugly, but it works
2020-07-19T17:57:10Z Oladon: (let ((letter)) (parse "bb" (=list (=transform (=element) (lambda (s) (setf letter s) s)) (=subseq (?satisfies (\lambda (s) (string-equal s letter)))))))
2020-07-19T17:57:20Z shka_: well, that's why people love context free grammars
2020-07-19T17:57:43Z shka_: they are way easier to deal with
2020-07-19T17:58:46Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T17:59:06Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-19T17:59:16Z shka_: otherwise maxpc looks simple and sweet
2020-07-19T17:59:32Z shka_: i will try to remember it
2020-07-19T17:59:38Z Oladon: I've been enjoying it. I don't think I'll mind a couple of slightly-ugly lets in one function.
2020-07-19T17:59:46Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-19T18:00:00Z shka_: well, if you would have a suitable language, it would work like charm
2020-07-19T18:00:51Z shka_: you just managed to stretch it beyond it's capabilities as it seems :-)
2020-07-19T18:01:43Z shka_: anyway, sorry, that's not what you wanted to hear i guess
2020-07-19T18:03:40Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T18:03:49Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-19T18:04:37Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T18:07:05Z dredrim quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T18:08:11Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T18:08:23Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-19T18:16:02Z thetabit quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T18:17:30Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T18:18:49Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T18:26:40Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T18:28:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T18:30:47Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T18:31:12Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T18:40:11Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T18:40:34Z RedMallet quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-19T18:45:15Z Josh_2: Whats characters for block comments??
2020-07-19T18:45:18Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T18:45:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T18:45:39Z shka_: Josh_2: #| to start a block comment #| to end
2020-07-19T18:45:48Z shka_: |#
2020-07-19T18:45:49Z shka_: sorry
2020-07-19T18:45:55Z Josh_2: awesome thanks
2020-07-19T18:45:58Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T18:46:10Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T18:46:24Z shka_: you are welcome
2020-07-19T18:47:03Z phoe: fun fact: they can be nested
2020-07-19T18:47:27Z phoe: try reading '(1 2 #|#|#|#||#|#|#|# 3 4)
2020-07-19T18:47:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T18:47:54Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T18:49:39Z shka_: ha! useless knowledge
2020-07-19T18:49:42Z shka_: i love it
2020-07-19T18:49:44Z phoe: not so useless
2020-07-19T18:49:54Z phoe: imagine that you have some function containing a block comment
2020-07-19T18:50:08Z phoe: and then you block-comment a larger section
2020-07-19T18:50:24Z shka_: ok, i never do that
2020-07-19T18:50:32Z shka_: but ok
2020-07-19T18:50:35Z shka_: it is cool
2020-07-19T18:50:37Z phoe: if they didn't nest, the comment would instead end on the first |#, leaving a contextless chunk of code full of mismatched closing parens
2020-07-19T18:50:46Z phoe: so that's actually a nice, if rarely used, feature
2020-07-19T18:59:31Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:02:45Z jackdaniel: slime has problems with recognizing nested comments
2020-07-19T19:03:34Z technobe` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T19:03:40Z jackdaniel: it was one of first lex excercises we had at uni - implement nested block comment in c (non-conforming)
2020-07-19T19:03:52Z jackdaniel: c-like comment*
2020-07-19T19:13:44Z jonathanschlink quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-07-19T19:18:57Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Sleeping...)
2020-07-19T19:22:12Z kapil_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-19T19:23:26Z kapil_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:28:26Z seok: is it possible to give default values for defmacro?
2020-07-19T19:29:13Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T19:29:21Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:30:38Z bitmapper: yes
2020-07-19T19:30:39Z bitmapper: iirc
2020-07-19T19:30:43Z bitmapper: same way as defun
2020-07-19T19:31:15Z seok: hm, it's giving me an error
2020-07-19T19:31:21Z seok: can I use &key and &rest together?
2020-07-19T19:32:11Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:32:26Z _death: clhs 2.4.8.19.2
2020-07-19T19:32:26Z specbot: Notes about Style for Sharpsign Vertical-Bar: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhsb.htm
2020-07-19T19:33:18Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T19:33:29Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T19:34:54Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T19:35:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:35:55Z Bike: seok: yes, you can use &rest and &key together. what's the error?
2020-07-19T19:36:19Z _death: seok: yes, you can use them together.. in fact it's sometimes a good idea when defining a macro, to determine the appropriate order of evaluation given the macro form
2020-07-19T19:36:35Z seok: (defmacro query (&key (auth *auth*) &rest body)
2020-07-19T19:36:45Z seok: gives misplaced &rest in lambda list
2020-07-19T19:37:14Z thecoffemaker quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-19T19:37:44Z _death: you need to have &rest before &key
2020-07-19T19:38:16Z seok: ah that works
2020-07-19T19:38:16Z _death: and note that it includes the keyword arguments..
2020-07-19T19:38:19Z seok: thanks _death
2020-07-19T19:38:32Z seok: what do you mean?
2020-07-19T19:38:40Z Josh_2: changing how my clim app works while It's running
2020-07-19T19:38:43Z Josh_2: how lispy :D
2020-07-19T19:38:46Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:38:46Z Josh_2: fantastic!
2020-07-19T19:38:46Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-19T19:38:46Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:38:54Z seok: would body include &key arguments?
2020-07-19T19:39:14Z _death: seok: may want to use ((&key (auth '*auth*)) &body body)
2020-07-19T19:39:43Z seok: that gives same error though
2020-07-19T19:39:51Z seok: misplaced &body in lambda list
2020-07-19T19:39:57Z _death: seok: have you tried it?
2020-07-19T19:40:01Z seok: yeah
2020-07-19T19:40:09Z _death: please fix your copy/paste then
2020-07-19T19:40:15Z thecoffemaker joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:40:23Z seok: (defmacro query (&key (auth *auth*) &body body)
2020-07-19T19:40:32Z seok: ah
2020-07-19T19:40:36Z seok: need another parentheses
2020-07-19T19:40:45Z seok: why is that?
2020-07-19T19:41:01Z _death: it's more convenient to extend/process
2020-07-19T19:41:28Z seok:  so when calling with key, do I need to (query (:auth x) body) ?
2020-07-19T19:41:37Z _death: also note that the default value is the symbol *auth*, not the value of *auth* at macroexpansion time
2020-07-19T19:41:57Z seok: Right
2020-07-19T19:42:03Z _death: yes
2020-07-19T19:42:28Z seok: Actually I was trying to get around that
2020-07-19T19:42:40Z seok: This is not the way eh?
2020-07-19T19:43:20Z _death: around what?.. if you're determined to use your original syntax, you can do that
2020-07-19T19:43:26Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:44:08Z seok: I want to use the value for *auth*
2020-07-19T19:44:20Z seok: So I need a function with quotes then?
2020-07-19T19:44:30Z _death: the value at macroexpansion time? unlikely that you want that
2020-07-19T19:44:40Z seok: the preset value
2020-07-19T19:46:10Z _death: I'm not sure what you're asking.. if your macro gets a symbol (like *auth*) you can use it in an evaluative context within the macroexpansion without trouble
2020-07-19T19:46:52Z seok: I want to use the value for *auth* at the time of macro definition
2020-07-19T19:47:12Z aeth: On the earlier topic of architectures and compilers... Can RISC V replace ARM? Definitely. Can RISC V replace x86-64 on desktops/laptops? Probably not. Nobody (except Apple) is going to break backwards compatibility with 3-4 decades of software binaries. I don't think FASLs are typically portable across architectures, are they? So this even affects CL.
2020-07-19T19:48:12Z _death: seok: that makes even less sense to me
2020-07-19T19:50:20Z _death: aeth: fasls may not even be portable across CL implementation versions..
2020-07-19T19:50:21Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T19:50:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:51:16Z mercourisj joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:53:30Z _death: aeth: for example sbcl fasl format has a version field, and I don't think it supports values other than the "current version"
2020-07-19T19:54:29Z aeth: _death: I wonder if that makes semver impossible, since every release would be a breaking one
2020-07-19T19:59:33Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T19:59:54Z jonathanschlink joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:00:27Z arpunk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T20:00:28Z deselby quit (Quit: Idle for 30+ days)
2020-07-19T20:04:19Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T20:04:49Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-19T20:05:49Z lukego: beach: Just reflecting that Emacs is not as sticky as I often think. I've been writing a lot of Lua in Emacs and there it doesn't support much of anything beyond indentation and syntax highlighting. I've been writing R in RStudio which is a 90s style crappy IDE that just happens to make it easy to plot and render RMarkdown out of the box. Pharo smalltalk is its own world too. So McCLIM seems quite plausible in that sense.
2020-07-19T20:06:03Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-19T20:06:34Z mercourisj: what does it mean for emacs to be 'sticky'?
2020-07-19T20:07:39Z lukego: in the sense that it would take a strong force to pull a person away from.
2020-07-19T20:07:44Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-19T20:08:26Z pve: is it good or bad that Pharo is its own world?
2020-07-19T20:09:28Z lukego: I'd say it's an "it's complicated" but I'm only using it as an example of a system that I've been quite willing to "live" inside despite being an Emacs weenie and having to give up all Emacs features to work with it.
2020-07-19T20:09:48Z mercourisj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T20:09:52Z pve: ah! a smalltalk fan!
2020-07-19T20:10:26Z lukego: I think you have to choose your battles carefully when you're making a "parallel" computing world. I don't think you want to reinvent things like git.
2020-07-19T20:10:49Z lukego: well love-hate with smalltalk. I hack some smalltalk every ten years and then flame out after some weeks or months :)
2020-07-19T20:11:34Z lukego: I spent quite some time working with the GToolkit object inspector library recently. very love-hate. it's the opposite problem to Common Lisp world - anything written more than one year ago is hopelessly obsolete, anything newer is hopelessly unstable :)
2020-07-19T20:12:03Z pve: I'm implementing a kind of smalltalk-in-lisp, it's been really fun
2020-07-19T20:12:15Z lukego: maybe that's why I get nostalgic for Lisp now. Hard to get shit done without a stable foundation to work from.
2020-07-19T20:13:06Z lukego: I should try to get McCLIM up and running. just had a build error last time that was complicated by my very quirky usage of Quicklisp via Nix that prevented me from being able to tweak the code
2020-07-19T20:13:39Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-19T20:13:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:13:58Z lukego: also Emacs changes. I enabled company-mode, ivy, etc, that everybody is into these days and I don't know what the hell is going on anymore :)
2020-07-19T20:14:03Z easye` joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:14:36Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T20:14:42Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:15:11Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:15:23Z easye quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-19T20:15:34Z lukego: pve: cool :)
2020-07-19T20:16:27Z lukego: pve: I do really like the way Smalltalk code is factored. I don't really like the IDE though. I like my code organized into files. my brain is linear :)
2020-07-19T20:17:00Z lukego: I haven't read the Blue Book and would like to one day see how it's implemented under the hood. I've gone down that rabbit hole with Forth and that was worth the trouble for sure :)
2020-07-19T20:17:41Z lukego: ok I have mcclim giving me the instllation error but running from a local checkout that I can actually patch. bedtime now but added to my procrastination vehicle rotation :)
2020-07-19T20:18:21Z lukego: pve: I don't think I've ever seen a Lisp-Smalltalk hybrid actually? seems to make potentially a lot of sense :)
2020-07-19T20:18:45Z lukego: if it's public I'd be curious to see :)
2020-07-19T20:19:24Z abhixec quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-19T20:20:04Z pve: lukego: at this stage it's mostly a syntax thing, but I wanted to see what would happen if one could mix lisp with smalltalk style message passing
2020-07-19T20:20:30Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-19T20:20:51Z pve: I'm cleaning it up as we speak, going to throw it up on github hopefully soonish
2020-07-19T20:20:58Z lukego: cool :)
2020-07-19T20:21:21Z pve: hmm I had some pictures of what it looks like at least, hold on
2020-07-19T20:21:54Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T20:22:41Z lukego: I also fantasise a little about doing LuaJIT style tracing in Lisp at least as an experiment/illustration. run code for a while, discover the in-practice types of some variables and definitions of some functions, and call COMPILE to create chains of specialized fast-path functions.
2020-07-19T20:23:54Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-19T20:24:21Z pve: lukego: https://imgur.com/a/NIVaRMr
2020-07-19T20:24:30Z pve: please forgive my font
2020-07-19T20:25:33Z pve: the first picture defines a source file class for the loader, the second does some asdf integration
2020-07-19T20:27:54Z pve: as you can see, it's not exactly smalltalk, but if you squint you can kind of see where the inspiration came from.. and besides, it's in a pretty early stage
2020-07-19T20:30:51Z aeth: lukego: Imo, people don't use tools based on the merits of the software itself, but based on the ecosystem. Emacs is Emacs, but any CL-based editor with tight integration to a popular CL platform would win over most of the CL community.
2020-07-19T20:33:32Z lukego: aeth: Maybe. CMUCL had Hemlock but it felt like I was one of maybe three people in the world using it :)
2020-07-19T20:34:11Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:34:33Z lukego: looks very intriguing pve :)
2020-07-19T20:35:32Z pve: lukego: thanks
2020-07-19T20:35:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T20:36:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:38:18Z lukego: oh hey I have the clim listener running now :) just kludged in another hard coded path to look for truetype fonts
2020-07-19T20:38:44Z lukego: climacs too
2020-07-19T20:41:52Z aeth: lukego: yeah, but the thing is, it's not Emacs, it's GNU Emacs. GNU Emacs has GNU, which is a little more popular than CMUCL, especially in the 90s
2020-07-19T20:42:35Z lukego: clouseau is fun :)
2020-07-19T20:45:41Z p_l: lukego: seems like a lot of people like and use Hemlock, though not necessarily under that name ;)
2020-07-19T20:46:02Z lukego: lispworks you mean?
2020-07-19T20:46:10Z lukego: ok really bedtime now
2020-07-19T20:49:02Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:49:03Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-19T20:49:03Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:49:03Z aeth: I mean, being more popular than the official editor of GNU-as-a-platform isn't really an impossible advantage to beat these days. Emacs' moat has probably never been smaller.
2020-07-19T20:50:11Z kapil_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-19T20:51:23Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T20:51:30Z aeth: I think these days, the main disadvantage is getting general users to get used to the Emacs keys that most CL programmers are used to by now...
2020-07-19T20:52:30Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:53:27Z kapil_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T20:55:28Z MichaelRaskin quit (Quit: MichaelRaskin)
2020-07-19T20:56:30Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T20:56:58Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-19T20:57:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:05:00Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T21:06:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:08:04Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T21:08:59Z p_l: Emacs additionally has the misfortune of dealing with anti-emacs keyboards
2020-07-19T21:12:37Z aeth: that's what the Emacs foot pedal is for.
2020-07-19T21:12:40Z aeth: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/FootSwitches
2020-07-19T21:14:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T21:15:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:18:55Z p_l: aeth: large amounts of laptops make foot switches rare
2020-07-19T21:20:30Z bendersteed joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:22:24Z narimiran quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-19T21:22:43Z ark joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:23:46Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:25:20Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:26:44Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T21:28:39Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:28:41Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T21:28:44Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:30:07Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T21:32:08Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T21:33:44Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:35:50Z aeth: p_l: well, if there are so many laptops, then just use a second laptop instead of foot pedals!
2020-07-19T21:36:25Z p_l: unwieldy and too expensive, not to mention it would also have anti-emacs keyboard of intel/apple source
2020-07-19T21:44:57Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:51:16Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:51:28Z _Posterdati_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T21:52:09Z edgar-rft: we need bluetooth footpedals built into our shoes
2020-07-19T21:52:37Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T21:53:55Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T21:55:03Z contrapunctus: Or, you know, ergonomic keyboards...and/or modal editing.
2020-07-19T21:55:11Z aeth: or direct BCI
2020-07-19T21:55:55Z aeth: would CLIM work with BCI? It's just a stream of commands...
2020-07-19T21:58:33Z edgar-rft: yes it controls you with its Brain Control Interface
2020-07-19T21:59:10Z aeth: edgar-rft: But everyone who uses BCI can tell you as if with one voice that it's the greatest thing ever and definitely doesn't control them.
2020-07-19T21:59:53Z edgar-rft: I think the same was said about facebook
2020-07-19T22:00:06Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-19T22:03:00Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-19T22:06:43Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-19T22:07:44Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T22:07:52Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-19T22:18:41Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-19T22:18:42Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T22:23:37Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T22:26:23Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T22:26:33Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T22:27:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T22:27:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-19T22:38:44Z nullman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T22:40:49Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T22:46:38Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-19T22:49:18Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-19T22:49:55Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T22:50:01Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-19T22:51:45Z bendersteed quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T22:54:35Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T22:54:41Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T22:56:01Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-19T22:56:20Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-19T22:57:33Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:00:10Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T23:01:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:01:54Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:03:30Z dredrim joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:09:31Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-19T23:10:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:11:12Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T23:12:40Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-19T23:16:54Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-19T23:18:22Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:20:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T23:20:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:24:30Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T23:29:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-19T23:29:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:30:06Z dredrim quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T23:38:04Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:38:25Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:38:27Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-19T23:38:30Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:43:35Z arpunk joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:45:47Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-19T23:46:22Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:48:01Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:51:00Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-19T23:52:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-19T23:53:01Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-19T23:54:02Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-19T23:59:04Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-19T23:59:21Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:07:29Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T00:07:30Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-20T00:08:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:09:31Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:16:46Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:17:27Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-20T00:17:28Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:21:09Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:23:38Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T00:24:51Z micro_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-20T00:25:47Z micro joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:31:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T00:31:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:34:44Z iissaacc: does anyone know why (setf (return-code*) +http-not-found+) gives me the error "the value 404 is not of type sequence"
2020-07-20T00:35:18Z iissaacc: So it seems to be expecting a sequence rather than an integer return code. But the manual and the source code do it the way I have done it
2020-07-20T00:39:07Z ayuce` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T00:44:00Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-20T00:45:05Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:45:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:45:34Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T00:48:35Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T00:51:43Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-20T00:53:55Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T00:59:08Z Gnuxie[m]: iissaacc: if it's the last thing you're doing hunchentoot will try write the new value from setf to the response stream
2020-07-20T00:59:32Z Gnuxie[m]: Which you don't want to do
2020-07-20T01:00:11Z xkapastel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-20T01:02:13Z Gnuxie[m]: (You'll want your 404 page instead)
2020-07-20T01:05:27Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-20T01:07:32Z iissaacc: thank you Gnuxie[m]
2020-07-20T01:09:08Z iissaacc: so if i do the setf and then some other expression after, it should work? its to signal "user not found in db"
2020-07-20T01:09:24Z iissaacc: there is probably a better return code to use than 404 for that i guess
2020-07-20T01:10:06Z Gnuxie[m]: Yepp, that string would do for now
2020-07-20T01:10:39Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-20T01:11:33Z iissaacc: chur
2020-07-20T01:13:52Z devrtz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T01:14:20Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T01:15:44Z devrtz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T01:23:40Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-20T01:24:14Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T01:24:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T01:32:24Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T01:33:40Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-20T01:35:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T01:37:07Z kleptoflora joined #lisp
2020-07-20T01:39:40Z anatrope quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-20T01:41:50Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-20T01:43:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T01:44:08Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T01:45:12Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-20T01:46:25Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T01:48:07Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T01:49:52Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T01:50:10Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-20T01:51:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T01:53:09Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-20T01:56:03Z GuerrillaMonkey joined #lisp
2020-07-20T01:58:16Z Jeanne-Kamikaze quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T02:02:58Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-20T02:03:29Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T02:11:21Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-20T02:11:51Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-20T02:12:11Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T02:18:27Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-20T02:18:33Z ldb: hello
2020-07-20T02:21:24Z joethecodhr joined #lisp
2020-07-20T02:22:14Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T02:23:16Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-20T02:23:50Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-20T02:25:16Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T02:26:48Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T02:33:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T02:35:27Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T02:37:55Z joethecodhr quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-20T02:42:30Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-20T02:48:18Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T02:48:28Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-20T02:49:54Z Bike quit (Quit: sleep)
2020-07-20T02:53:20Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T02:57:23Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-20T03:04:59Z RukiSama quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T03:05:43Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-20T03:07:31Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-20T03:32:16Z Oladon: Morning beach!
2020-07-20T03:32:38Z Oladon: b
2020-07-20T03:32:45Z Oladon: oops, ^b doesn't work here
2020-07-20T03:37:05Z iissaacc: gidday mate
2020-07-20T03:37:12Z iissaacc: how are we
2020-07-20T03:38:35Z beach: I am fine at least.  Today, I need to finish part 2 of my series of presentations for phoe's online Lisp meeting to be streamed on Wednesday.
2020-07-20T03:39:05Z iissaacc: what are you presenting may i ask
2020-07-20T03:39:34Z beach: The series is called "Creating a Common Lisp implementation" and it is about different strategies for structuring such a thing.
2020-07-20T03:40:10Z beach: Part 1 (along with the other past presentations for the online Lisp meeting) is available somewhere.
2020-07-20T03:40:21Z iissaacc: cool, over my head but i'll check it out
2020-07-20T03:40:42Z beach: No, it is not very technical.
2020-07-20T03:41:17Z iissaacc: implementation as in creating another compiler like SBCL?
2020-07-20T03:41:23Z jw4 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T03:41:33Z beach: Compiler and run-time, yes.
2020-07-20T03:41:59Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T03:43:05Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-20T03:43:24Z iissaacc: is this something you are doing?
2020-07-20T03:43:28Z beach: Yes.
2020-07-20T03:43:45Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-20T03:43:48Z beach: I hope to be able to explain the strategy used by SICL in the last part of the series.
2020-07-20T03:44:06Z beach: minion: Please tell iissaacc about SICL.
2020-07-20T03:44:06Z minion: iissaacc: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
2020-07-20T03:44:22Z beach: minion: Please tell iissaacc about Cleavir.
2020-07-20T03:44:22Z minion: iissaacc: Cleavir: A project to create an implementation-independent compilation framework for Common Lisp. Currently Cleavir is part of SICL, but that might change in the future
2020-07-20T03:48:17Z iissaacc: minion: online meeting
2020-07-20T03:48:18Z minion: please stop playing with me... i am not a toy
2020-07-20T03:48:40Z iissaacc: minion: online Lisp meeting
2020-07-20T03:48:41Z minion: i like lisp... i'm written in it
2020-07-20T03:48:53Z beach: iissaacc: Hold on.  I'll find you a link.
2020-07-20T03:49:19Z beach: Actually, you can Google it.
2020-07-20T03:49:25Z iissaacc: can anyone attend this online lisp meeting? ive just handed in my thesis so ive got plenty of time for stuff like that
2020-07-20T03:49:39Z beach: Yes, it is free for anyone to attend.
2020-07-20T03:49:54Z iissaacc: more to spectate than contribute. ive only just started using lisp and im trying to immerse myself in it
2020-07-20T03:49:56Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T03:50:25Z iissaacc: cool found a reddit thread
2020-07-20T03:50:30Z beach: The format is: streaming a recording + a text chat.
2020-07-20T03:51:09Z beach: So you can type questions while the presentation is streamed, and the person presenting will hopefully answer in real time.
2020-07-20T03:51:14Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-20T03:51:14Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-20T03:52:05Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-20T03:53:38Z iissaacc: oh awesome not too late either. ill be there
2020-07-20T04:04:32Z beach: Great!
2020-07-20T04:06:22Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-20T04:09:58Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T04:20:04Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-20T04:24:54Z gxt quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-20T04:26:58Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-20T04:37:12Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T04:44:08Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-20T04:50:59Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-20T04:51:08Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T04:52:21Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-20T04:52:49Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-20T05:02:39Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T05:03:02Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-20T05:04:59Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T05:08:47Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T05:14:31Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-20T05:14:58Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-20T05:15:03Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-20T05:21:33Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-20T05:26:11Z GuerrillaMonkey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T05:27:38Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-20T05:31:18Z easye` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-20T05:31:47Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T05:32:11Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-20T05:32:29Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-20T05:32:47Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T05:32:50Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T05:34:11Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-20T05:37:04Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T05:38:01Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-20T05:38:02Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-20T05:43:13Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-20T05:58:20Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T06:04:14Z _Posterdati_ quit (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
2020-07-20T06:11:11Z phoe: good morning
2020-07-20T06:11:55Z phoe: iissaacc: https://mailman.common-lisp.net/listinfo/online-lisp-meets
2020-07-20T06:18:32Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-20T06:20:30Z beach: Hello phoe.
2020-07-20T06:20:36Z phoe: hey hi
2020-07-20T06:20:42Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-20T06:23:57Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-20T06:24:47Z iissaacc: thanks phoe
2020-07-20T06:25:25Z iissaacc: question: if i use a (loop) in a macro, do the loop-internal variables need to be gensyms?
2020-07-20T06:25:30Z iissaacc: i assume not
2020-07-20T06:26:24Z phoe: iissaacc: how do you use it in a macro?
2020-07-20T06:26:39Z phoe: is it a part of the output code, or do you use it in the macro expander to generate something?
2020-07-20T06:28:30Z iissaacc: iits part of the code that the macro outputs
2020-07-20T06:29:57Z beach: Then you may have capture if some LOOP clause contains code from the macro call, so it is safest to GENSYM.
2020-07-20T06:32:49Z iissaacc: thanks beach, doing it that way
2020-07-20T06:35:41Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-20T06:40:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T06:40:24Z asarch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T06:45:08Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T06:51:08Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T06:51:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T06:52:11Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-20T06:55:23Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-20T06:57:45Z whiteline quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T06:57:49Z whiteline_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T06:59:39Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T07:00:23Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-20T07:01:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-20T07:04:50Z Harag` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T07:05:08Z kleptoflora quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-20T07:06:25Z Harag` joined #lisp
2020-07-20T07:07:00Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T07:12:35Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T07:13:38Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T07:17:12Z frgo_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T07:19:23Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T07:22:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T07:22:11Z space_otter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T07:22:23Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T07:25:46Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-20T07:30:21Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-20T07:35:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T07:36:52Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-20T07:37:06Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-20T07:37:08Z easye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T07:39:24Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-20T07:43:32Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-20T07:47:12Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-20T07:48:24Z seok quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-20T07:49:23Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T07:49:58Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T07:52:22Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-20T07:58:51Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-20T08:02:52Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-20T08:25:40Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-20T08:49:19Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-20T08:56:06Z fouric quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T08:56:48Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-20T08:57:22Z fouric joined #lisp
2020-07-20T08:57:31Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-20T08:57:42Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-20T09:00:36Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-20T09:23:07Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T09:25:03Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T09:25:50Z Josh_2: Morning all
2020-07-20T09:26:05Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-20T09:26:31Z beach: Hello Josh_2.
2020-07-20T09:28:51Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-20T09:29:18Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T09:29:38Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-20T09:30:38Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T09:31:58Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T09:38:52Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T09:40:44Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-20T09:44:22Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-20T09:45:29Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-20T09:46:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-20T09:46:49Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T09:55:09Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-20T09:55:46Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T09:56:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:05:24Z flazh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-20T10:06:08Z flazh1 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:07:17Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z flazh1 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z jesse1010 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z zaquest quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z kapil_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z narendraj9 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z wooden_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z mgsk- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z minion quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z Codaraxis_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z luna_is_here quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z zigpaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z shka_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z Krystof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z eta quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z hiroaki quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:08:59Z leo_song_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:09:00Z lad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:09:00Z Kaisyu7 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:09:00Z hdasch quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:09:00Z TMA quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:09:00Z Kabriel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z flazh1 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z kapil_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z narendraj9 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z mgsk- joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z Codaraxis_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z Krystof joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z eta joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z leo_song_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z Kaisyu7 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z TMA joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:22Z Kabriel joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:10:30Z Codaraxis_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-20T10:11:31Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T10:11:37Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T10:11:39Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:12:08Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:12:49Z thecoffemaker quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T10:13:32Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:13:39Z v88m quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T10:13:49Z Codaraxis_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:14:07Z midre joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:14:10Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:14:42Z thecoffemaker joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:15:37Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T10:16:27Z jello_pudding quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T10:17:25Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:20:45Z Codaraxis__ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:21:47Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T10:22:08Z jello_pudding joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:23:50Z Codaraxis_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T10:29:06Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T10:40:25Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:44:48Z Bourne quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T10:46:09Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:49:43Z igemnace quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T10:54:03Z gxt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T10:55:35Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:56:52Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-20T10:56:55Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:57:02Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-20T10:58:26Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-20T10:58:35Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-20T10:59:50Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-20T11:00:22Z jmercouris: hello everyone
2020-07-20T11:00:40Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-20T11:05:42Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T11:05:49Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T11:06:30Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T11:06:42Z loke: Hello jmercouris
2020-07-20T11:10:35Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T11:14:56Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-20T11:14:59Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T11:15:07Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T11:15:57Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-20T11:17:46Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-20T11:23:26Z easye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T11:23:26Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-20T11:23:42Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-20T11:24:55Z grewal quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-20T11:29:34Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T11:30:31Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T11:34:06Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T11:38:37Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-20T11:42:23Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-20T11:47:33Z easye` joined #lisp
2020-07-20T11:47:41Z easye quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91))
2020-07-20T11:51:11Z easye` is now known as easye
2020-07-20T12:01:33Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-20T12:21:14Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T12:21:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T12:22:45Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T12:23:22Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T12:32:49Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T12:33:55Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T12:34:56Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-20T12:35:33Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-20T12:39:15Z phoe: hey everyone
2020-07-20T12:42:20Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-20T12:43:00Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-20T12:50:25Z loke: Hello phoe
2020-07-20T12:52:52Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T12:56:50Z Harag`: beach: cl-isolated gives you "safe" access to a subset of cl functionality, I think it would benefit from using eclector (at least the new branch I am workin on), but that said it could most probably be re-imagened using eclector, any advise before I go diving into it head first.
2020-07-20T12:57:13Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T13:02:52Z beach: Harag`: I have never heard of cl-isolated, so I would have to first take a look.  When it comes to Eclector, it is better to ask scymtym who is the one in charge.
2020-07-20T13:02:54Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T13:05:40Z Harag`: beach: cl-isolated just stops the code it reads/processes from accessing "dangerous" cl base functions so that you could for instance use "cl like" code as a scripting language
2020-07-20T13:06:22Z shka_: sounds hackish
2020-07-20T13:06:27Z Harag`: cl-isolated came from code in cl-eval-bot as far as I know
2020-07-20T13:07:19Z shka_: oh, ok
2020-07-20T13:07:23Z shka_: this explains it
2020-07-20T13:07:28Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:08:57Z Harag`: i got permission to update cl-isolated to not just be a "repl like" tool but more of a scripting language backend with usefully outputs that can be used by the hosting system
2020-07-20T13:11:26Z Harag`: I have a branch of cl-isolated that does this, but it aint pretty, it is now time to either finish the branch properly or diverge completely to something that is purpose build to be "cl-script"
2020-07-20T13:14:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T13:15:55Z beach: Harag`: I see.  Eclector would be perfect for that.
2020-07-20T13:16:44Z beach: Some day, I hope to suggest you use first-class global environments for it as well.
2020-07-20T13:18:28Z Harag`: beach: found the paper you are hinting at, will read it
2020-07-20T13:21:50Z beach: Great!  If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
2020-07-20T13:22:53Z beach: You can't really use it as it is, but I hope it will be usable in an arbitrary implementation like that some day.
2020-07-20T13:23:57Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:26:50Z roze joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:28:11Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T13:32:42Z lambda-smith quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T13:37:13Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T13:39:26Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:41:02Z Zotan quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-07-20T13:42:51Z Zotan joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:44:42Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:45:57Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:46:42Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:46:43Z lambda-smith quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T13:47:07Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:48:04Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:49:21Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-20T13:49:42Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T13:49:47Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:52:01Z lambda-smith quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T13:52:58Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-20T13:55:03Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T13:55:12Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T13:55:17Z RedMallet quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-20T13:55:22Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:00:47Z Zotan quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-07-20T14:05:57Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:10:25Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-20T14:15:16Z lerax joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:25:07Z roze quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-20T14:26:40Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:30:07Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:31:08Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T14:33:24Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:35:44Z Harag`: beach: So the jist of it is: implement the functions in the "protocol" section of the paper and have the reader use those instead of the cl ones. Come up with some type of environment specification where you can introduce sanitized or non implementation versions of dangerous cl functions for the "environment". Use that enviroment and the protocol functions to compile/run the code from the user.
2020-07-20T14:36:25Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:37:28Z beach: Sort of.  You also need an evaluator that will evaluate everything in a particular first-class global environments rather than in the default global environment.
2020-07-20T14:38:01Z beach: You can do that by translating the original code so that every reference to a function is in a particular environment.
2020-07-20T14:38:16Z beach: But I haven't done that work (yet) for any implementation other than SICL.
2020-07-20T14:38:33Z beach: I mean, I run SICL code in SBCL in a first-class global environment.
2020-07-20T14:40:13Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-20T14:45:09Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:48:16Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:49:52Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T14:50:58Z Harag`: for macro's would "translating" the full expantion of the code be enough?
2020-07-20T14:51:05Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:51:51Z beach: Are you still talking about first-class global environment, or something else?
2020-07-20T14:53:47Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:55:14Z Harag`: still talking about the same
2020-07-20T14:57:13Z beach: OK, so a first-class global environment contains macro functions, as the protocol indicates.  The compiler (or transpiler) compiles the code relative to a first-class global environment, and when it sees (foo ...) it consults the first-class global environment to determine whether FOO is a function, a macro, or a special operator.  If it is a macro, it gets the expander from the first-class global environment and applies it.
2020-07-20T14:57:42Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T14:58:06Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-20T14:59:42Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-20T15:02:22Z Harag`: and the expander is responsible for doing any "code translation" to make sure that the environment is "adhered" to...
2020-07-20T15:02:50Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T15:02:54Z beach: That's not enough.
2020-07-20T15:03:46Z gioyik quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T15:04:01Z Harag`: do you mean that there could be more possible expanding of the expanded code?
2020-07-20T15:04:10Z beach: If the code is a function call, like (bar x), then it has to be translated to (funcall (fcge:fdefinition 'bar environment) x)
2020-07-20T15:04:21Z Harag`: yes got that bit
2020-07-20T15:05:03Z beach: Sure, the compiler will expand until the code is no longer a macro call, as usual.
2020-07-20T15:05:59Z jackdaniel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T15:06:11Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-20T15:08:37Z lukego: Hey how naughty is it to use #C(X Y) complex numbers to represent cartesian coordinates? what's a better way that supports basic arithmetic like + ?
2020-07-20T15:08:55Z phoe: explicit vec2 structs
2020-07-20T15:09:18Z phoe: these will need their own addition operations though
2020-07-20T15:10:11Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-20T15:10:39Z beach: lukego: It is a very good idea.
2020-07-20T15:10:48Z beach: I have done it successfully in a few applications.
2020-07-20T15:10:59Z beach: One for font creation for instance.
2020-07-20T15:12:49Z thetabit joined #lisp
2020-07-20T15:13:14Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-20T15:13:48Z lukego: thanks beach
2020-07-20T15:17:01Z gioyik quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T15:24:05Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T15:29:58Z Harag`: beach: so does sicl not basically do all of the above, ie would using sicl for the base of a "cl-script" be the right way to go? Or is it over kill?
2020-07-20T15:32:25Z beach: It is probably overkill.  What SICL currently does in the host is it invokes a Cleavir-based compiler that compiles relative to a first-class global environment.  Then it turns the code into and AST and then to a graph of intermediate instructions.  The intermediate instructions are then interpreted relative to a (possibly different) first-class global environment.
2020-07-20T15:32:41Z beach: This is meant for SICL bootstrapping, and not for sandboxing in the host.
2020-07-20T15:32:45Z beach: So it is slow.
2020-07-20T15:35:18Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-20T15:35:32Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T15:36:22Z Harag`: ok but the implementatio of the 40 or so functions that make up the protocol could be "lifted" from sicl or is there an issue with their implementation as is?
2020-07-20T15:37:02Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T15:37:05Z beach: The protocol is independent of SICL.  In fact, we are in the process of extracting and improving it to a separate library.
2020-07-20T15:37:56Z beach: But you still need to write a version of EVAL that takes a first-class global environment in addition to a form and evaluates the form in that environment.
2020-07-20T15:41:03Z Harag`: yes understood, write EVAL to use enviroment.
2020-07-20T15:41:38Z Harag`: is there any way to get a look at the seperate protocol library, pretty please?
2020-07-20T15:43:18Z beach: It doesn't exist yet.  jackdaniel just started working on it today.
2020-07-20T15:43:25Z beach: From an incomplete specification.
2020-07-20T15:43:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T15:43:48Z beach: You can go to the s-expressionists GitHub repositories and look at Clostrum.
2020-07-20T15:43:56Z beach: There should be a Documentation directory there.
2020-07-20T15:44:11Z beach: But it is neither complete nor correct at this point.
2020-07-20T15:44:45Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-20T15:45:16Z beach: Now, Cleavir turns the source into an AST that has all the macros expanded.  My guess is that it is not too hard to turn that AST into host code that can be executed relative to a first-class global environment.
2020-07-20T15:46:22Z beach: That would be a large part of such an evaluator.
2020-07-20T15:48:50Z beach: The AST contains nodes of type FDEFINITION-AST, and those could be translated into (fcge:fdefinition 'name environment).
2020-07-20T15:52:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-20T15:52:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T15:53:39Z beach: Harag`: If you want to use this stuff I think you need to wait a bit.  We have plans to extract the translation to AST into a separate library as well, but using this stuff for things other than SICL bootstrapping is not on top of my list right now.  But of course, if someone would like to take on that extraction as a project, I would try to help out.
2020-07-20T15:59:30Z Harag` counting his word very carefully...
2020-07-20T16:03:49Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T16:04:01Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:04:51Z bitmapper quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T16:07:09Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:08:09Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:16:36Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-20T16:16:55Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:18:50Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-20T16:18:51Z nirved quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T16:19:11Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:20:57Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:24:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T16:25:21Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:25:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:26:25Z epr joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:26:44Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:30:06Z lambda-smith quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T16:38:31Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:40:05Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-20T16:40:20Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-20T16:40:49Z justache is now known as angryw0mbat
2020-07-20T16:40:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T16:41:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:45:28Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T16:45:44Z kg_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:46:01Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:48:09Z kg_: Hey, does anyone know how to run a script through Portacle's copy of SBCL & quicklisp? I've tried `~/portacle/lin/bin/sbcl --script myscript.lisp` but it errors out when I try to call quicklisp in the script.
2020-07-20T16:48:55Z angryw0mbat is now known as justache
2020-07-20T16:49:48Z kiwi_35 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:50:22Z kg_: Running it within Portacle would also be fine.
2020-07-20T16:50:50Z jackdaniel: how about (load "/path/to/script.lisp") then?
2020-07-20T16:51:41Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:53:24Z karlosz quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-20T16:53:35Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:53:56Z kg_: Yep, juuust figured that out. Not my brightest moment.
2020-07-20T16:54:03Z kg_: Thank you!
2020-07-20T16:55:28Z kg_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-20T16:55:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T16:56:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:58:19Z choegusung joined #lisp
2020-07-20T16:58:30Z jackdaniel: sure
2020-07-20T16:59:58Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-20T17:00:06Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-20T17:00:41Z RedMallet quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-20T17:02:11Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-20T17:02:50Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-20T17:13:49Z dyelar joined #lisp
2020-07-20T17:15:43Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-20T17:15:43Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-20T17:15:43Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-20T17:19:16Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-20T17:32:55Z kiwi_35 quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2020-07-20T17:39:39Z uplime joined #lisp
2020-07-20T17:41:34Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T17:47:21Z choegusung quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-20T17:48:36Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T17:50:41Z terpri_ is now known as terpri
2020-07-20T17:54:36Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T17:54:52Z ayuce quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T17:55:00Z jw4 quit (Quit: tot siens)
2020-07-20T17:55:19Z random-nick quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-20T17:55:39Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-20T17:56:48Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:01:42Z lavaflow quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T18:02:36Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:02:49Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-20T18:05:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T18:07:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:09:14Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:15:20Z jgodbout joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:15:51Z jgodbout: I'm looking at https://github.com/lisp-mirror and noticing alexandria isn't there
2020-07-20T18:16:02Z jgodbout: any reason why not/ anyone know how it could make it there?
2020-07-20T18:18:38Z phoe: jgodbout: this repo has ancient versions of lots of Lisp systems
2020-07-20T18:19:17Z phoe: oh wait, I mixed it up with common-lisp-repos
2020-07-20T18:22:02Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T18:22:18Z jgodbout: Yea, there's a few (2?) alexandria mirrors I've found but I'm not sure how up to date they stay.
2020-07-20T18:22:42Z jgodbout: I need it to (a) be on github and (b) stay up to date...
2020-07-20T18:22:57Z phoe: alexandria's home is at https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/alexandria/alexandria/ and I don't know who runs lisp-mirror - especially since they don't announce themselves on the organization page
2020-07-20T18:23:05Z phoe: why github in particular?
2020-07-20T18:23:09Z jgodbout: Can't use gitlab
2020-07-20T18:23:31Z phoe: company policies?
2020-07-20T18:23:39Z jgodbout: Company infrastructure problem
2020-07-20T18:23:52Z jgodbout: Can't make an automatic sync with gitlab
2020-07-20T18:24:05Z jgodbout: And I'm sick of using libraries 5 years out of date...
2020-07-20T18:24:10Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:24:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T18:24:34Z phoe: you could use quicklisp releases if you feel like writing a hack for that
2020-07-20T18:24:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:25:45Z phoe: flip214: it seems to me that you have write access to https://github.com/keithj/alexandria/ - could you add a webhook to synchronize this mirror with clnet's gitlab?
2020-07-20T18:26:09Z phoe: I don't think there's point in keeping out-of-date mirrors
2020-07-20T18:33:01Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T18:35:48Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-20T18:37:06Z jgodbout: yea that one is in fact quite a bit out of date
2020-07-20T18:38:05Z kiwi_35 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:39:01Z jgodbout: Repository mirroring allows for mirroring of repositories is a perfect documentation string
2020-07-20T18:41:55Z contrapunctus: jgodbout: the Redundant Department of Redundancy says that water is wet due to its property of wetness. 😏
2020-07-20T18:42:10Z jgodbout: https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/repository/repository_mirroring.html
2020-07-20T18:42:20Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-20T18:42:26Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T18:44:54Z jgodbout: Is a problem with linters some times :
2020-07-20T18:45:22Z jgodbout: (defun print-foo (foo) "This function prints FOO." (print foo))
2020-07-20T18:46:44Z gravicappa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T18:46:54Z remexre quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T18:47:10Z remexre joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:51:52Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:54:46Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T18:56:44Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2020-07-20T18:59:24Z fbmnds joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:02:16Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T19:02:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:04:03Z fbmnds: hi - I asked a macro-related question in SO, perhaps someone may want to have a look: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/63001750/why-do-these-nested-macros-fail-to-create-bindings-in-packages-that-import-these
2020-07-20T19:06:00Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-20T19:06:22Z Bike: are you sure that's the definition of control! you're using? no old definitions in the wrong package sticking around? That looks to me like it should work.
2020-07-20T19:06:31Z phoe: fbmnds: this expands correctly for me
2020-07-20T19:06:43Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:07:04Z Bike: also, you can use this library for CAS portability: https://github.com/Shinmera/atomics
2020-07-20T19:09:02Z fbmnds: :bike: I copied it from the editor, thx for the link - phoe: thx for looking into it
2020-07-20T19:09:13Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T19:09:55Z fbmnds: bike: I call it from a larger script, I will check for side effects - thx
2020-07-20T19:10:36Z Bike: so the "repl" stuff there isn't actually done in a repl?
2020-07-20T19:11:15Z fbmnds: bike: it's a repl for GCode
2020-07-20T19:11:54Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:11:54Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-20T19:11:54Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:11:58Z whiteline_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T19:12:25Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:14:11Z runix_1 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:17:24Z runix_1: Hi, should I consider `(some list ,item) constant, like for '(some list item) where in-place modifications are considered undefined behaviour?
2020-07-20T19:18:23Z Bike: yes.
2020-07-20T19:19:13Z runix_1: okay,  thanks
2020-07-20T19:32:56Z kiwi_35 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T19:33:42Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:33:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T19:40:24Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:46:39Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:52:27Z fbmnds quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T19:52:36Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:57:23Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:57:46Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-20T19:58:45Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T19:59:14Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-20T20:00:46Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-20T20:01:22Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T20:05:01Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T20:07:03Z abhixec joined #lisp
2020-07-20T20:09:59Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-20T20:20:41Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-20T20:23:42Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-20T20:25:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T20:31:05Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-20T20:35:40Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-20T20:35:42Z thetabit quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T20:37:47Z aaaaaa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T20:48:05Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-20T20:48:18Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-20T20:51:08Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T20:52:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T20:56:23Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T21:01:54Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T21:02:04Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T21:02:42Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-20T21:03:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T21:07:18Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-20T21:08:25Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-20T21:15:13Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T21:16:21Z runix_1: Hi, are there any pros or cons for using function objects vs symbols as e.g. test functions - example: (assoc "id" *some-alist* :test #'equal)  or :test 'equal?
2020-07-20T21:18:58Z moon-child joined #lisp
2020-07-20T21:19:31Z jackdaniel: for standard functions no
2020-07-20T21:19:41Z Bike: using the symbol ensures that it's sensitive to redefinition and stuff. that doesn't matter for standard functions though.
2020-07-20T21:19:51Z jackdaniel: exactly
2020-07-20T21:20:05Z Bike: (and using the function might be very slightly faster, again for non standard functions)
2020-07-20T21:21:39Z runix_1: okay, thanks
2020-07-20T21:25:00Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T21:25:11Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T21:28:42Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T21:36:45Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-20T21:37:25Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T21:40:39Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T21:43:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T21:51:22Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-20T21:51:26Z seok: how do I set default encoding for strings?
2020-07-20T21:52:51Z Bike: i don't believe there's any standard way to set the default external format
2020-07-20T21:53:06Z seok: Hm
2020-07-20T21:53:38Z Bike: in sbcl there's sb-ext:*default-external-format*
2020-07-20T21:53:49Z Bike: no idea about other implementations
2020-07-20T21:54:18Z seok: I am using sbcl but cannot find sb-ext:*default-external-format*
2020-07-20T21:54:53Z Bike: well, it's in the manual, and it's in my sbcl which is several months old.
2020-07-20T21:55:06Z Bike: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#The-Default-External-Format
2020-07-20T21:55:23Z seok: Ah, I'm rendering html with caveman + spinneret, just setting the meta tag fixed it
2020-07-20T21:56:55Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:00:41Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Am testat redcore!)
2020-07-20T22:05:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T22:12:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-20T22:12:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:16:03Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:16:09Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:16:11Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T22:16:37Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-20T22:23:38Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:25:15Z seok: is it safe to (read ..) arbitrary user input?
2020-07-20T22:25:22Z seok: I imagined
2020-07-20T22:25:28Z seok: it might be ok since it is not eval
2020-07-20T22:26:16Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-20T22:27:26Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:27:47Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T22:29:36Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:30:04Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T22:30:34Z nicktick1 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:30:42Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-20T22:30:46Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:30:58Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T22:34:45Z nicktick1 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-20T22:37:00Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:37:04Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T22:37:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T22:37:45Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:37:48Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T22:37:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:39:18Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:39:23Z bsd4me quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-20T22:41:20Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T22:41:56Z nicktick1 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:43:27Z seisatsu_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-20T22:44:38Z hipete joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:54:16Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T22:54:19Z nicktick2 joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:54:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:55:34Z nicktick2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T22:56:01Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T22:56:44Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:57:11Z nicktick1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T22:57:13Z nicktick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-20T22:58:03Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-20T22:58:57Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T23:06:11Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T23:10:43Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:18:43Z zooey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T23:19:04Z froggey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T23:19:53Z runix_1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T23:21:13Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:21:27Z seisatsu joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:21:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-20T23:22:10Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:22:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:25:32Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T23:31:50Z elosant joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:32:08Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-20T23:32:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:33:36Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:34:36Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-20T23:34:38Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:36:00Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T23:36:23Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:37:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-20T23:37:45Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T23:42:42Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:42:53Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-20T23:43:02Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-20T23:43:40Z X-Scale quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/)
2020-07-20T23:46:36Z p_l: no, it's not
2020-07-20T23:46:41Z p_l: not with default standard reader
2020-07-20T23:48:52Z p_l: because the interning of symbols can lead to memory exhaustion, among other things
2020-07-20T23:49:02Z p_l: and you might intern something that causes weird behaviour
2020-07-20T23:50:56Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-20T23:52:11Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-20T23:52:17Z xkapastel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-20T23:56:15Z seok: Can you intern a symbol with just read?
2020-07-20T23:56:35Z Bike: yeah, read interns symbols all the time.
2020-07-20T23:56:43Z seok: Hm, I see
2020-07-20T23:56:59Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T00:04:07Z aeth: If you're handling arbitrary user input and you don't particularly care about performance, then use read-line in a LOOP and parse it line-by-line. If it's interactive and you can't hang, you have to use READ-CHAR-NO-HANG and reinvent READ-LINE, unfortunately.
2020-07-21T00:05:02Z White_Flame: seok: there's also the reader macro #. which evaluates arbitrary expressions at read time
2020-07-21T00:05:13Z aeth: well that's just *read-eval* to NIL before calling READ
2020-07-21T00:05:18Z White_Flame: that can be disabled with ... yeah
2020-07-21T00:06:03Z aeth: (I say READ-LINE isn't the performance-oriented way because the fastest way to handle input would probably be regex on READ-CHAR or even READ-BYTE, but I don't think existing regex libraries support this)
2020-07-21T00:06:27Z aeth: (READ-LINE does have the problem that your user input could give you extremely large lines, so it's somewhat similar to the issue with interning, too)
2020-07-21T00:06:49Z seok: aeth don't quite understand. Is there a security risk in using READ over READ-LINE?
2020-07-21T00:06:54Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-21T00:07:15Z White_Flame: making reading safe in general is quite  large task with many modes of failure that would need to have thresholds specified and errors handled
2020-07-21T00:07:26Z White_Flame: and of course would likely significantly affect performance
2020-07-21T00:07:28Z aeth: seok: READ can run arbitrary code with #. (but that can be addressed) and can do some other undesirable side effects, like interning too many symbols until you run out of memory. Invalid syntax probably won't be handled gracefully, either.
2020-07-21T00:07:30Z seok: Yeah, it seems thats the gist of this
2020-07-21T00:08:07Z White_Flame: imagine simple READing from a character stream that infinitely outputs #\A characters
2020-07-21T00:08:10Z aeth: seok: Most of the time you're dealing with user input, you want READ-LINE and something like regex unless it's a multiline input (even then you could just collect lines into lists or something), but there's one issue I can think of there which is that the user could give you a line larger than memory or somethingl ike that.
2020-07-21T00:08:22Z aeth: (i.e. infinite #\A's with no #\Newline)
2020-07-21T00:08:40Z seok: I guess it is safer to take strings only and check for validity?
2020-07-21T00:08:46Z aeth: The fully robust way would be READ-CHAR or READ-CHAR-NO-HANG, but then you're mostly on your own without much help
2020-07-21T00:08:54Z aeth: READ-LINE is normally good-enough
2020-07-21T00:09:01Z White_Flame: it all depends where this info is coming from.  file, socket, interactive user typing
2020-07-21T00:09:05Z seok: I imagined DDOS-style attacks would be handled by the limitations of HTTPS connection or CDN
2020-07-21T00:10:05Z aeth: Oh, and you might want to READ-BYTE, too, especially if it's some encoding that's not Unicode.
2020-07-21T00:10:06Z White_Flame: but yeah, everything above the single character reading functions are conveniences, and not all-emcompassing security sandboxes
2020-07-21T00:12:20Z seok: The user can't send string or stream of infinite length though, POST and GET requests don't allow that
2020-07-21T00:12:39Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-21T00:12:54Z seok: but it seems there are other hard to handle risks too
2020-07-21T00:13:15Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-21T00:13:21Z aeth: Well, if it's line-oriented and there has to be either an EOF or a newline, then READ-LINE will work.
2020-07-21T00:13:25Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-21T00:13:33Z aeth: I actually have thought about this problem and am working on a general solution that uses READ-CHAR or READ-CHAR-NO-HANG (and probably could be extended to use READ-BYTE) and an alternative to regex to parse input based on rules. Naturally, this is harder than it looks so I haven't gotten around to finishing it yet.
2020-07-21T00:13:47Z aeth: Since I hate the idea of using intermediate READ-LINEs and then running regex on it
2020-07-21T00:14:11Z seok: Actually it seemed pretty hard to me too xD just wondering if there was a solution
2020-07-21T00:14:16Z aeth: But READ-LINE does work if you don't want to waste 30ish hours yak shaving a custom READ-FOO macro.
2020-07-21T00:14:25Z aeth: At the cost of it looking like Perl and not being elegant :-p
2020-07-21T00:15:03Z seok: Is the reason you are running regex on each line
2020-07-21T00:15:12Z seok: to forbid evaluations?
2020-07-21T00:15:22Z thetabit joined #lisp
2020-07-21T00:16:07Z aeth: (loop :for line := (read-line input nil nil) :while line :do ...)
2020-07-21T00:17:09Z aeth: And, yeah, your :do either parses the line manually with stuff like POSITION (and maybe e.g. PARSE-INTEGER), or it uses a regex library
2020-07-21T00:17:44Z aeth: Or if it's HTML/XML/JSON/etc. you pass it to a library that accepts input streams
2020-07-21T00:18:08Z aeth: I guess once you get past the HTTP header or however this works, I usually use web frameworks
2020-07-21T00:18:16Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-21T00:18:37Z seok: Why would we want to build handler for JSON inputs?
2020-07-21T00:18:45Z seok: there are already json decode libraries?
2020-07-21T00:19:00Z aeth: heh
2020-07-21T00:19:26Z aeth: I meant if you have JSON, you don't use READ-LINE, you pass it off to a library, but... I'm not a big fan of the existing libraries last time I did a survey of the options, so I personally would write my own
2020-07-21T00:19:42Z seok: Right
2020-07-21T00:20:21Z seok: Yeah, I see what you mean. The json libraries are not really consistent with each other
2020-07-21T00:20:31Z seok: I just do with what we've got tho xD
2020-07-21T00:20:47Z aeth: Well, they mostly don't round trip
2020-07-21T00:21:10Z aeth: You have to make some sacrifices to round trip that no library when I checked a few years ago was willing to make.
2020-07-21T00:21:23Z seok: There isn't a clear winner amongst them, bit of a curve for newbies
2020-07-21T00:22:29Z aeth: If the library is poorly thought out, NIL<->false vs. NIL<->{} vs NIL<->[] is a major issue since NIL is also the empty list, and the library might prefer lists for [] and plists/alists for {}
2020-07-21T00:23:04Z aeth: Some might even do NIL<->null which is absurd because NIL is false, not null, despite the name.
2020-07-21T00:23:14Z White_Flame: :null, :true, :false, (json array), hashtables for {}, makes a fair bit of sense
2020-07-21T00:23:15Z seok: Ah that's difficult
2020-07-21T00:23:25Z aeth: The solution imo is to do NIL<->false and use a prefix for plists/alists/lists
2020-07-21T00:24:18Z aeth: somethingl ike this maybe: :null, NIL, T, (:json-array ...), (:json-object ...)
2020-07-21T00:24:43Z seok: That's probably right, since nil is not intended represent empty lists for most json
2020-07-21T00:24:43Z aeth: But that's not quite sufficient, either, since you want the user to decide between hash tables, plists, or alists for JSON objects.
2020-07-21T00:25:08Z aeth: You also want the user to specify ANY sequence for JSON arrays, not just keyword-prefixed lists (still need to disambiguate with NIL) and/or simple-vectors
2020-07-21T00:25:49Z White_Flame: having those options is difficult, because if you have nested objects, the consumer for the parent object might want arrays as lists, while the consumer for the child object might want arrays as CL arrays etc
2020-07-21T00:25:50Z aeth: So, I mean, obviously it won't quite roundtrip since more than one CL thing could become one JSON thing, unless you restrict the encoding to just one of the options
2020-07-21T00:26:07Z aeth: White_Flame: Right, to be fully general you need a schema
2020-07-21T00:26:29Z aeth: Or a way to select which sequence while parsing at runtime
2020-07-21T00:26:31Z White_Flame: you're always going to need a translation layer.  It's nonsensical to canonically have JSON decode into idiomatic lisp, or lisp canonically encode into idiomatic json
2020-07-21T00:27:02Z White_Flame: so an unambiguous representation of JSON in lisp is the intermediate translation layer
2020-07-21T00:27:19Z aeth: Yes, but I'm okay with :null/T/NIL instead of :null/:true/:false
2020-07-21T00:27:34Z White_Flame: how do you give the json encoder an empty list?
2020-07-21T00:27:40Z aeth: You don't.
2020-07-21T00:27:43Z White_Flame: heh
2020-07-21T00:27:50Z White_Flame: well I mean an empty json array
2020-07-21T00:27:51Z aeth: (cons :json-array your-list)
2020-07-21T00:28:04Z aeth: If that's empty that becomes '(:json-array)
2020-07-21T00:28:53Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-21T00:29:17Z seok: White_Flame don't believe there is a good solution as long as nil === '() in lisp implementations
2020-07-21T00:29:17Z aeth: Technically, this conses so you might want a way around it
2020-07-21T00:29:42Z aeth: (Of course, the way around it might just be to give a simple-vector and hash-table instead of a list and a plist/alist)
2020-07-21T00:29:50Z White_Flame: seok: well, in my preference, anything that's listp should encode to a list
2020-07-21T00:30:00Z White_Flame: (array in this case)
2020-07-21T00:30:06Z elosant quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-21T00:30:09Z aeth: White_Flame: And this is why there are so many JSON libraries, and I'll one day add another
2020-07-21T00:30:22Z seok: then how do you represent false in json?
2020-07-21T00:30:30Z aeth: Because people have like 10 different preferences when you combine all of the different issues, and they're all valid, and defaults matter so people will want one with the "correct" defaults
2020-07-21T00:30:45Z White_Flame: seok: the atomics would be the unambiguous keywords :null, :true, and :false
2020-07-21T00:31:00Z elderK quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T00:31:03Z aeth: See, I don't like that. I'd prefer using T and NIL and complicate the representation of JSON arrays/objects
2020-07-21T00:31:17Z noface joined #lisp
2020-07-21T00:31:24Z noface quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-21T00:31:32Z aeth: Obviously :null is unavoidable unless you do NIL<->null which some libraries do and that's the least correct answer, maybe the only one that's objectively wrong.
2020-07-21T00:31:36Z seok: To accommodate tastes, the library should provide options for those translations then?
2020-07-21T00:31:48Z White_Flame: seok: and then that gets into the nesting problem
2020-07-21T00:31:56Z noface joined #lisp
2020-07-21T00:32:00Z aeth: seok: The thing about software is that defaults matter. Most people will only ever use the defaults.
2020-07-21T00:32:01Z seok: What is the nesting problem?
2020-07-21T00:32:19Z White_Flame: where different nested JSON objects ideally want different translation options
2020-07-21T00:32:28Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-21T00:32:36Z seok: Why would one want that?
2020-07-21T00:32:46Z White_Flame: because different code handles different objectrs
2020-07-21T00:32:56Z White_Flame: and the natural representation in lisp might differ between them
2020-07-21T00:33:04Z seok: Shouldn't one design their application so translations are consistent?
2020-07-21T00:33:13Z seok: hm
2020-07-21T00:33:22Z White_Flame: that would pierce abstractions
2020-07-21T00:33:53Z aeth: I mean, the real solution is to switch to .sxp and just use s-expressions
2020-07-21T00:34:05Z seok: aeth I'd like that
2020-07-21T00:34:22Z aeth: Here, you really do need to use "true" and "false", though, as a sort of "nobody wins" compromise between different Lisp dialects (e.g. Scheme's #t and CL's T)
2020-07-21T00:34:25Z seok: json -> lisp is no problem since json has both nil and [] right?
2020-07-21T00:35:01Z White_Flame: json's null and json's [] are separate.  those 2 concepts are equivalent in CL
2020-07-21T00:35:16Z aeth: JSON is mostly oriented toward scripting languages that have, more or less, the same core data structures, like JavaScript, Python, Lua, etc. The mapping's pretty obvious there.
2020-07-21T00:35:18Z seok: and for lisp -> json the programmer can set the setting for each type of object no?
2020-07-21T00:35:23Z aeth: Languages with rich type systems like Common Lisp have more of an issue
2020-07-21T00:35:38Z aeth: e.g. CL has a whole numeric tower, JS just has a double. (well, JS finally added integers recently iirc)
2020-07-21T00:35:48Z White_Flame: and JS isn't JSON
2020-07-21T00:36:05Z White_Flame: JSON is much more limited
2020-07-21T00:36:48Z seok: but the problem here is actually that lisp has limited representation of '() and nil
2020-07-21T00:36:58Z seok: not that lisp has rich type system
2020-07-21T00:37:18Z seok: in lisp '() and nil are same concept, whilst in most other languages they are not
2020-07-21T00:37:58Z aeth: but that's only if you want [] to become a Lisp list
2020-07-21T00:38:12Z aeth: [] could become anything, really.
2020-07-21T00:38:19Z aeth: https://github.com/Shinmera/trivial-extensible-sequences/
2020-07-21T00:38:40Z aeth: There's literally no way of knowing what the user wants [] to turn into.
2020-07-21T00:39:03Z seok: What other than an empty list would the user want to turn [] into?
2020-07-21T00:39:08Z seok: [] in json I mean?
2020-07-21T00:39:23Z aeth: The user probably wants a list or simple-vector, but maybe also e.g. (simple-array octet (*)) which is a 1D array of octets
2020-07-21T00:39:30Z seok: White_Flame mentioned empty array, that's one I guess
2020-07-21T00:39:41Z aeth: But imo there's basically no cost to prefixing a list.
2020-07-21T00:40:00Z seok: But making [] into an lisp array does not make sense
2020-07-21T00:40:02Z aeth: To write JSON, you'd just CONS :json-array and to read JSON, you'd just CDR the prefixed list
2020-07-21T00:40:33Z aeth: seok: why not? For all you know, [] represents a matrix and so you want it to become #2A()
2020-07-21T00:40:37Z aeth: People use JSON for everything.
2020-07-21T00:40:39Z White_Flame: to write JSON, you'd also have to know which values are intended to be json arrays
2020-07-21T00:40:48Z seok: what's the size of that array? 0?
2020-07-21T00:40:56Z White_Flame: and where that knowledge has to be is a weird situation
2020-07-21T00:41:29Z aeth: seok: no, it's (0 0) instead of 0
2020-07-21T00:41:31Z aeth: #() is 0
2020-07-21T00:41:32Z White_Flame: eg who is the you in "you'd just CONS up the thing"
2020-07-21T00:41:48Z aeth: (array-dimensions #2A()) => (0 0)
2020-07-21T00:42:03Z aeth: Actually #() is length 0 and array-dimensions (0) so it depends on how you approach it
2020-07-21T00:42:09Z seok: JS calls lists arrays, but they are actually lists, lol
2020-07-21T00:42:20Z White_Flame: they're sequences
2020-07-21T00:42:39Z aeth: White_Flame: and as I said, they're not necessarily sequences, since [] could mean #2A() if the context is matrices
2020-07-21T00:42:41Z White_Flame: (and really, they're just a shorthand for an object with implicit pseudo-numeric  keys)
2020-07-21T00:42:58Z White_Flame: aeth: I meant json [] is a sequence
2020-07-21T00:43:04Z White_Flame: not a "list" or "array" necessarily
2020-07-21T00:43:06Z seok: but aeth, there isn't actually a way to represent arrays in JSON
2020-07-21T00:43:29Z seok: the parser / decoder for that array should be built into the application by the programmer
2020-07-21T00:43:48Z seok: how do you distinguish (0 0) and (0 0 0)
2020-07-21T00:43:55Z aeth: JSON has no Schema so it's possible [] is just short for [[],[]] in an API that otherwise expects e.g. [[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6]] to #2A((1 2 3) (4 5 6)) which is particularly problematic in CL where you get real multidimensional arrays
2020-07-21T00:44:11Z aeth: and a naive JSON parser would just give you '((1 2 3) (4 5 6)) which is nested lists...
2020-07-21T00:44:50Z aeth: seok: You don't distinguish (0 0) and (0 0 0) in my JSON example without knowing the context that the JSON is encoding matrices, which are by definition 2D
2020-07-21T00:44:59Z seok: one loses information of the array structure once it is in json, so there shouldn't be a native encode/decoder in aa library
2020-07-21T00:45:11Z seok: That's what I'm saying, that's application specific
2020-07-21T00:45:23Z seok: a library should handle general cases
2020-07-21T00:46:01Z aeth: Yes, it would be perfectly fair if [] was required to become a sequence (but anything more specific is too specific imo) and then the user would just have to turn that sequence into a 2D array manually
2020-07-21T00:46:09Z seok: yeah
2020-07-21T00:46:10Z aeth: Not efficient, but general enough
2020-07-21T00:46:18Z White_Flame: aeth: that also brings up the nesting issue of (:json-list (:json-list 1 2 3) (:json-list 4 5 6)) where the elements of the list aren't raw lisp objects, but a json intermediate format still
2020-07-21T00:46:38Z seok: It's a limitation of using JSON. one should not use JSON if that kind of performance is an issue
2020-07-21T00:47:00Z seok: but I guess what you are saying in writing your own JSON reader makes sense
2020-07-21T00:47:10Z aeth: White_Flame: That's fine for me. You can have a postprocessing function that removes the prefixes at the expense of reintroducing the NIL ambiguity
2020-07-21T00:47:21Z aeth: Or you can just have the user deal with it
2020-07-21T00:49:59Z seok: the next standard of lisp might want to have objects to represent [] and false only alongside '() to be able to communicate with other modern languages better
2020-07-21T00:50:10Z seok: ?
2020-07-21T00:52:08Z shukryzablah joined #lisp
2020-07-21T00:52:24Z aeth: but then you have two falsey objects and open up that can of worms
2020-07-21T00:53:05Z seok: [] = '() = false but [] != false?
2020-07-21T00:54:25Z seok: (= [] nil) => nil, (equal [] nil) => t?
2020-07-21T00:54:31Z seok: I dunno : P
2020-07-21T00:56:53Z johntalent joined #lisp
2020-07-21T00:59:34Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-21T01:06:14Z FennecCode joined #lisp
2020-07-21T01:16:52Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-21T01:19:27Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-21T01:22:16Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T01:24:49Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-21T01:25:12Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-21T01:28:05Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T01:28:42Z Kaisyu7 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-21T01:30:07Z lucifer_h quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-21T01:35:39Z Kaisyu7 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T01:40:16Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T01:40:55Z cosimone_ is now known as cosimone
2020-07-21T01:41:45Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-21T01:42:08Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T01:45:51Z karstensrage_ left #lisp
2020-07-21T01:48:35Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T01:51:26Z shukryzablah quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-21T01:54:37Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-21T02:02:57Z thetabit quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T02:06:59Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T02:17:34Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-21T02:20:51Z isakovic joined #lisp
2020-07-21T02:21:36Z isakovic quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-21T02:21:44Z tucansam joined #lisp
2020-07-21T02:22:19Z tucansam is now known as toucansam
2020-07-21T02:22:44Z toucansam is now known as tonythetiger
2020-07-21T02:38:20Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-21T02:41:23Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T02:43:11Z john__ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T02:47:00Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T02:51:04Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-21T02:55:43Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-21T02:58:44Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-21T03:00:06Z stylewarning: beach: what are you working on
2020-07-21T03:01:19Z beach: Today, on a presentation for the online Lisp meeting.
2020-07-21T03:01:33Z beach: Also a specification for the extraction of first-class global environments to a separate library.
2020-07-21T03:02:01Z beach: And of course SICL bootstrapping.  The other day I was able to load a large part of the portable condition system.
2020-07-21T03:02:04Z beach: stylewarning: You?
2020-07-21T03:05:43Z stylewarning: beach: usual quantum compiler stuff, how to specify and practically use a broader class of (quantum) compiler targets. Also thinking about trying to hack on Coalton a bit this evening; I still don’t understand everything I should about Lisp compilation, the environment that exists in different phases of compilation and execution, externalizable objects, etc
2020-07-21T03:06:47Z jgodbout: any interesting QIT papers catch your attention and help?
2020-07-21T03:07:10Z beach: stylewarning: Yeah, that's non-trivial stuff.  I am working on that at the moment for the first-class global environments.
2020-07-21T03:09:24Z stylewarning: jgodbout: you probably know everything you need to. This paper talks about quilc: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/2058-9565/ab9acb
2020-07-21T03:09:52Z stylewarning: [the arxiv version exists but is a bit different and a bit lighter; can email the full one]
2020-07-21T03:11:39Z jgodbout: My university directs me to the arxiv /sigh
2020-07-21T03:11:57Z stylewarning: jgodbout: i can chat in detail about the quantum stuff in #qlisp, but the main idea is that compiler targets in quilc are somewhat limited; I want to be able to write efficient compilers for elements in SU(2) using an arbitrary (parametric) generating set, perhaps specified by a collection of rotations about off-axis vectors
2020-07-21T03:12:27Z stylewarning: jgodbout: there is a modicum of trouble in the compilation (math), but more trouble right now fitting it into the quilc framework, which really relies on things being canonically named
2020-07-21T03:13:39Z stylewarning: e.g., "RX" specifically and always refers to the the map theta -> {SU(2) elements rotating about x-axis}
2020-07-21T03:15:47Z stylewarning: anyway, further discussion would be a diversion, but the main code that keeps track of what a "target architecture" is is this CHIP-SPECIFICATION structure: https://github.com/rigetti/quilc/blob/master/src/chip/chip-specification.lisp#L21
2020-07-21T03:16:48Z stylewarning: jgodbout: (if you want to make a great contribution that's relatively self-contained, I would *LOVE* to see an implementation of Solovay-Kitaev or a better derivative, even though it's not always practical. A few folks have tried to implement it but have uniformly failed.)
2020-07-21T03:19:13Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-21T03:21:06Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T03:21:09Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-21T03:25:35Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-21T03:25:47Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T03:26:43Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-21T03:34:12Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T03:36:24Z thetabit joined #lisp
2020-07-21T03:36:43Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T03:38:04Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-21T03:40:02Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T03:42:17Z xkapastel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-21T03:42:36Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T03:42:45Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-21T03:45:20Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-21T03:46:43Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-21T03:50:59Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T03:52:44Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T03:53:02Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T03:59:39Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-21T04:04:36Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-21T04:09:34Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-21T04:14:32Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-21T04:17:40Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-21T04:22:00Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-21T04:26:44Z nicktick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T04:33:25Z abhixec quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T04:35:33Z Retropikzel quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-21T04:38:09Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-21T04:48:52Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T04:54:56Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-21T04:58:41Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-21T04:59:55Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-21T05:00:50Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-21T05:05:02Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-21T05:07:57Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T05:08:05Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T05:08:05Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-21T05:09:40Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-21T05:09:48Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T05:09:52Z tonythetiger quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-21T05:10:09Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-21T05:11:26Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T05:16:11Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2020-07-21T05:18:35Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T05:21:52Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-21T05:24:42Z johntalent quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T05:27:21Z stylewarning: beach (or anybody), can I pick your brain? I'm writing a functional programming language as a Lisp DSL that expands into Lisp code. For instance, the code (toplevel (define (f x) x)) expands into the CL code (DEFUN F (X) X). TOPLEVEL is the macro that processes the DEFINE forms; DEFINE itself is not a macro.
2020-07-21T05:28:53Z stylewarning: My trouble right now is that TOPLEVEL is also inferring the types of the functions defined by DEFINE and entering them into a global database, say a hash table mapping symbols (like F) to a representation of a type (say, a structure with a load form). It is doing this during macro expansion time.
2020-07-21T05:29:38Z stylewarning: It needs to do it at macro time so that all of the DEFINE's in the TOPLEVEL can be mutually type-inferred and type-checked.
2020-07-21T05:30:17Z stylewarning: My issue right now is that when the compiler produces a bunch of fasls, and my implementation (SBCL) later goes to load those fasls, the database is no longer known.
2020-07-21T05:30:29Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-21T05:31:13Z stylewarning: Is the only way around this to macroexpand into toplevel SETFs so they get caught in the compiled output?
2020-07-21T05:31:47Z thetabit quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T05:32:04Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-21T05:34:18Z gxt quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-21T05:37:42Z narimiran_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T05:38:10Z phoe: stylewarning: I think so; there's also the issue of typechecking FASLs against the rest of the system
2020-07-21T05:39:11Z phoe: suppose you've made a FASL that depends on some earlier stuff and you're loading it, are you sure that it's still typechecked if the stuff it depended on was modified?
2020-07-21T05:39:24Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-21T05:40:43Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T05:41:42Z stylewarning: phoe: great point
2020-07-21T05:42:34Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-21T05:42:48Z phoe: I wonder if compilation-time is the best moment of performing that typechecking
2020-07-21T05:42:58Z phoe: because compilation-time doesn't exist for FASLs that are already compiled
2020-07-21T05:43:38Z stylewarning: load time seems like a good candidate, but it also seems too late. But maybe not all is bad because it seems that systems are rarely all compiled without loading
2020-07-21T05:43:47Z phoe: or if it's possible to design a system that performs the checks at compile time *OR* at load-time, but only if no compile-time check was made
2020-07-21T05:43:51Z stylewarning: more commonly seems that one does compile-load-compile-load-...
2020-07-21T05:43:56Z phoe: yes, it seems a bit late
2020-07-21T05:44:10Z phoe: compile-time type mismatches should be caught at compile time
2020-07-21T05:44:28Z stylewarning: i wish lisp had standard ways of hooking into the start & end of a compilation unit :)
2020-07-21T05:44:42Z phoe: it's called ASDF nowadays
2020-07-21T05:44:56Z stylewarning: i bet there's some crazy way to hook into the end w/o ASDF using the condition system
2020-07-21T05:45:27Z stylewarning: since warnings can be deferred to the end of a unit, or something like that. I bet that phoe guy knows about that
2020-07-21T05:46:51Z phoe: the thing is that one indeed needs to hook into the compilation unit - it's the implementation that actually gathers these warning into a bunch and then re-checks and prints them out together at the end of a compilation unit
2020-07-21T05:47:44Z phoe: I think you'd need a custom and/or hookable LOAD
2020-07-21T05:47:55Z phoe: and that's troublesome stuff
2020-07-21T05:49:01Z phoe: as for the condition system, huh; I can see no immediate way to create a set of conditions that will hook into the compilation unit (again, since it's not hookable by default) that will behave in the way we want
2020-07-21T05:49:44Z phoe: I think the easiest thing we can do is to create FASLs that also contain eval-when :load-toplevel logic for typechecking
2020-07-21T05:50:09Z phoe: this means that compile-and-loading code will execute validation twice in a row, but it should also be working
2020-07-21T05:50:57Z phoe: like, you will get compile-time errors if your code doesn't typecheck, and you'll get load-time safety in case a file is not loadable into the system
2020-07-21T05:51:48Z phoe: good design of macroexpansions will also mean that typechecks happen before any mutating of the Lisp image so you don't actually SETF FDEFINITION of anything that doesn't make sense to the typechecker
2020-07-21T05:52:31Z stylewarning: I agree
2020-07-21T05:52:44Z fe[nl]ix: stylewarning: https://github.com/fare/asdf-finalizers
2020-07-21T05:53:22Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-21T05:53:38Z fe[nl]ix: Fare wrote asdf-finalizers for a similar purpose, to perform global checks at the end of a compilation unit
2020-07-21T05:53:54Z stylewarning: fe[nl]ix: neat, I didn't know (or forgot) about this
2020-07-21T05:54:46Z fe[nl]ix: read https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/blob/master/doc/best_practices.md#using-asdf-extensions as well
2020-07-21T05:55:26Z phoe: I actually think that you could want to add the actual SETF FDEFINITION calls to the finalizer list, so that load-time typechecks *all* have a chance to execute
2020-07-21T05:55:39Z phoe: this way you could typecheck whole modules before loading them
2020-07-21T05:55:55Z phoe: but that's a troublesome idea
2020-07-21T05:56:05Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T05:56:34Z phoe: and maybe unnecessary due to how ASDF recompiles stuff as required anyway
2020-07-21T05:57:45Z lukego: is there some obvious way e.g. slime option to have all def* forms highlighed? e.g. not just defvar but also e.g. defvar-unbound
2020-07-21T06:00:01Z d4ryus quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-21T06:00:45Z stylewarning: fe[nl]ix: https://github.com/fare/asdf-finalizers/blob/master/README.list-of#L7
2020-07-21T06:00:49Z stylewarning: kind of a bummer
2020-07-21T06:03:33Z phoe: I remember hacking at the same thing some time ago and coming up with https://github.com/phoe/phoe-toolbox/blob/master/phoe-toolbox.lisp#L644-L658
2020-07-21T06:04:01Z phoe: if that is the same thing, that is; it might be too early for me to recognize
2020-07-21T06:07:53Z fe[nl]ix: stylewarning: well, it's a hack :)
2020-07-21T06:12:53Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-21T06:14:19Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T06:15:27Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2020-07-21T06:18:23Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T06:23:41Z abhixec joined #lisp
2020-07-21T06:28:30Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-21T06:30:42Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-21T06:31:00Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-21T06:33:14Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-21T06:39:29Z FennecCode quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T06:40:56Z FennecCode joined #lisp
2020-07-21T06:42:15Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-21T06:43:55Z v88m quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T06:43:58Z jdz: lukego: My slime does that bye default, probably a contrib.
2020-07-21T06:44:11Z jdz: s/bye/by
2020-07-21T06:44:25Z lukego: jdz: thanks for the tip, I'll grep the slime sources more thoroughly for where that happens
2020-07-21T06:45:01Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-21T06:45:22Z jdz: lukego: Sorry, wrong information.  All forms with define- are highlighted, not def-.
2020-07-21T06:45:54Z Harag`: morning
2020-07-21T06:46:00Z Harag`: beach: Could a naive implementation of sandboxed cl not just eclector and just override "interpret-symbol" to either block (raise an error) on cl functions you dont want to allow or just replace the cl function with a "safe" alternative.
2020-07-21T06:46:15Z Harag`: All you need then is a list of blocked and replaced functions. In theory that should work for macro's as well because at some time or another the "expanded code" will run into interpret-symbol as well.
2020-07-21T06:46:26Z Harag`: If you allow the "host" to amend the list of blocked or replaced functions, the host could customize behaviour to its specifications.
2020-07-21T06:46:39Z lukego: slime-fontifying-fu.el seems to be the relevant file, though as you say it doesn't catch this specific case
2020-07-21T06:47:43Z beach: Harag`: Sure, that might work.  But you still have to write a complete evaluator.
2020-07-21T06:47:50Z FennecCode quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T06:49:05Z FennecCode joined #lisp
2020-07-21T06:49:23Z Harag`: could you not just do a run over the code to validate, and then pass validated code to eval? You could even compile and/or cache such validated code
2020-07-21T06:51:52Z Harag`: or am I missing the meaning of "evaluator" here
2020-07-21T06:52:11Z beach: It is not that easy.
2020-07-21T06:52:19Z beach: It is a code-walker problem.
2020-07-21T06:52:23Z jprajzne1 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T06:52:38Z beach: You need to know what each macro does.
2020-07-21T06:52:54Z beach: That's why it is a complete evaluator.
2020-07-21T06:54:00Z beach: Suppose you want to make EVAL one of the unwanted functions.  Now you see (let ((eval '(+ 3 4))) ...).  Do you replace EVAL, or reject the code?
2020-07-21T06:54:00Z Harag`: so in essence you need to "safely" expand each macro to its fullest to be able to evaluate if its safe?
2020-07-21T06:54:12Z beach: Exactly.
2020-07-21T06:55:41Z Harag`: yeah that let one is a pain, I ran into it on my firts day of trying to write a parser for cl-isolated, ended up keeping context of "what" came before to decide
2020-07-21T06:56:15Z beach: The only solution to this problem is a "code walker" of which an evaluator is a special case.
2020-07-21T07:04:25Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-21T07:07:00Z fbmnds joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:07:10Z Harag`: ok thanx
2020-07-21T07:07:40Z john__ is now known as gaqwas
2020-07-21T07:07:49Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-21T07:07:49Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:08:06Z Harag` crawls of to go and bump his head some more ...
2020-07-21T07:10:06Z fbmnds: phoe: bike: your feedback helped me to track down the bug
2020-07-21T07:10:31Z fbmnds: is there something like lint for common lisp?
2020-07-21T07:12:01Z abhixec quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-21T07:13:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:17:31Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:19:12Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-21T07:22:50Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:23:30Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:25:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T07:26:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:34:44Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:36:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T07:44:40Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T07:44:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:45:37Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:46:26Z contrapunctus: fbmnds: does this work? https://github.com/fukamachi/sblint
2020-07-21T07:52:43Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:53:23Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:54:37Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:54:54Z fanta1 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:55:40Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:56:24Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T07:56:33Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:57:13Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-21T07:57:14Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-21T07:57:36Z liberliver1 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T07:59:14Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T07:59:15Z liberliver1 is now known as liberliver
2020-07-21T08:01:06Z femi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T08:02:53Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-21T08:07:51Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T08:11:54Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-21T08:18:53Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-21T08:20:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T08:23:01Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T08:24:40Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T08:24:41Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-21T08:27:19Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-21T08:27:36Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-21T08:28:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T08:29:39Z femi joined #lisp
2020-07-21T08:36:20Z fbmnds: contrapunctus: thx - this looks interesting
2020-07-21T08:44:23Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T08:44:39Z kg_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T08:45:31Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T08:46:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T08:48:35Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T08:49:02Z kg_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-21T08:54:52Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-21T08:56:43Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T09:02:02Z brown121407 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T09:05:45Z FennecCode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T09:07:57Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:09:31Z aaaaaa quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-21T09:10:48Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T09:11:04Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:13:56Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:16:05Z farooqkz__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T09:17:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T09:17:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:27:44Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:28:43Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-21T09:29:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:33:10Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:36:47Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T09:40:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T09:41:33Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:42:36Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T09:44:50Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:50:48Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:51:20Z fbmnds: contrapunctus: sblint appears not generate warnings but one gets condensed compiler error messages at the exact line of code
2020-07-21T09:52:31Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:56:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T09:56:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T09:59:32Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T10:13:08Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T10:13:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:14:49Z reggie__ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:15:28Z reggie_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T10:17:42Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:18:14Z micro quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-21T10:19:07Z micro joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:28:47Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T10:30:26Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T10:33:43Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:34:12Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-21T10:50:44Z liberliver1 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:50:45Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T10:50:45Z liberliver1 is now known as liberliver
2020-07-21T10:51:47Z seok89 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:51:55Z seok89 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T10:52:18Z seok82 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:52:27Z seok: What is the right way to redefine a class?
2020-07-21T10:52:34Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:55:43Z Xach: seok: re-evaluate the defclass form is one fine way
2020-07-21T10:55:59Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:56:16Z seok82: would it cause problems with existing instances?
2020-07-21T10:56:22Z Xach: if you have live instances, and you care about how they adapt, write methods on update-instance-for-redefined-class or similar
2020-07-21T10:56:51Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T10:57:51Z jdz: seok: Everything will be fine if you're just adding slots, or changing slot options.  Existing instances will preserve the slots they had before.
2020-07-21T10:58:14Z seok82: what about when deleting slots?
2020-07-21T10:58:24Z jdz: They will be deleted.
2020-07-21T10:58:25Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-21T10:58:26Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-21T10:58:37Z jdz: Poof, gone.
2020-07-21T10:59:07Z Xach: the grim GCer comes for all
2020-07-21T10:59:25Z jdz: The Grim Collector.
2020-07-21T11:00:04Z Xach: much better
2020-07-21T11:00:07Z kg_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:00:09Z seok82: Nice, that's straightforward
2020-07-21T11:00:29Z seok82: ty
2020-07-21T11:07:12Z kg_: Any Hunchentoot experts about the place? My server is returning the default 404 page, even though error-template-directory is pointing to the right place and I've created a 404.html file there.
2020-07-21T11:07:22Z kg_: Here's a gist with the relevant code / output: https://gist.github.com/Kevinpgalligan/3ccd532ee02863e4a5993e13908b7c71
2020-07-21T11:12:37Z jmercouris: kg_: what are the permissions on the file? perhaps it is unreadable
2020-07-21T11:13:31Z kg_: It has full read permissions. Same as my index.html file.
2020-07-21T11:14:26Z jmercouris: and what if you try to return something else rather than your file, just a simple string, does it resolve then?
2020-07-21T11:14:44Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T11:14:51Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:15:21Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:16:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T11:16:59Z kg_: What do you mean by "return something else"? I tried playing around with acceptor-status-message and got that to return a string.
2020-07-21T11:17:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:17:35Z jmercouris: that's what I was getting at, yes
2020-07-21T11:17:45Z jmercouris: I'm afraid I have no other ideas, I'm sorry
2020-07-21T11:18:04Z _death: kg: could be your browser's cache
2020-07-21T11:19:12Z _death: ah, in your gist you have the request logged
2020-07-21T11:20:12Z kg_: Ya, just tried clearing the cache and it didn't help. Good idea, though.
2020-07-21T11:21:57Z seok82 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T11:24:56Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T11:25:03Z _death: the template is only used when *show-lisp-errors-p* is true.. otherwise make-cooked-message is used
2020-07-21T11:25:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:29:02Z kg_: Ahhhhh, that worked. Never would have connected that setting to the problem. Thank you very much.
2020-07-21T11:30:04Z _death: looking at hunchentoot code is a good way to learn about hunchentoot behavior ;)
2020-07-21T11:30:34Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-21T11:30:49Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:33:04Z jgodbout quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T11:33:36Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T11:34:07Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:35:57Z stepnem_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:36:35Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T11:38:21Z kg_: Naturally, ha.
2020-07-21T11:43:00Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T11:43:14Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T11:43:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:43:39Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:47:09Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:48:52Z rgherdt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T11:49:14Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:49:43Z flip214 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-21T11:51:01Z igemnace quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-21T11:54:54Z flip214 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T11:58:55Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:02:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:02:59Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:06:18Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:06:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:07:25Z stepnem_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:07:26Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:15:31Z stepnem quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-21T12:17:03Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:17:28Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-21T12:18:40Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:19:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:22:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:23:24Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:26:59Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:28:09Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:29:05Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:36:28Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:37:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:44:11Z ghard joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:44:18Z stepnem_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:45:10Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:47:53Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:48:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:51:22Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:52:44Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:53:45Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:53:45Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-21T12:55:42Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:58:55Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-21T12:59:30Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T12:59:56Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:04:24Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:08:02Z vornth quit
2020-07-21T13:13:40Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T13:15:09Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:15:16Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:17:20Z terpri_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T13:17:43Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:19:12Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:29:51Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:37:07Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:37:27Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-21T13:39:01Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:39:13Z binary001 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:39:20Z binary001 left #lisp
2020-07-21T13:45:25Z epr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T13:45:59Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-21T13:52:03Z Kabriel: When I search quicklisp online for "sqlite", cl-sqlite comes up. But if I do a quickload on that name, it says it cannot find the package.
2020-07-21T13:52:31Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2020-07-21T13:52:36Z Kabriel: I have just run update-dist, but that doesn't seem to change the issue.
2020-07-21T13:52:51Z Kabriel: Has this package been removed? If so, is there a better alternative?
2020-07-21T13:53:33Z jmercouris: Kabriel: (ql:system-apropos "sqlite")
2020-07-21T13:54:32Z jackdaniel: Kabriel: the project has a name cl-sqlite, but the system and the interface package are named sqlite
2020-07-21T13:54:36Z Kabriel: jmercouris: thanks. That is the system name "sqlite", i.e. not "cl-sqlite".
2020-07-21T13:54:44Z jmercouris: correct :-)
2020-07-21T13:54:55Z jmercouris: that is why I suggested you use the apropos command, it has helped me a few times in cases like that!
2020-07-21T13:55:31Z Kabriel: Funny, I kept running apropos on "sql", and my eyes were skipping over the sqlite entry near the bottom.
2020-07-21T13:55:51Z jmercouris: yeah, they are not ordered in any way that is visibly logical
2020-07-21T13:56:06Z jmercouris: I don't think there is a sorting algorithm in place, it just probably greediily matches / pushes to a list
2020-07-21T13:56:35Z jmercouris: I would have sorted them /weighted them based on downloads and some other simple NL processing
2020-07-21T13:56:42Z jmercouris: but that is beyond the scope of QL
2020-07-21T13:58:42Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-21T13:58:55Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:00:09Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:00:31Z Kabriel: jackdaniel: thanks
2020-07-21T14:00:58Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:01:11Z ghard: Hey I've been playing with the CL Repl on iPad
2020-07-21T14:01:37Z ghard: Anybody else found out drakma is not loading because it depends on usocket which seems to depend on sb-bsd-socket
2020-07-21T14:01:46Z jmercouris: D R A K M A
2020-07-21T14:02:01Z jmercouris: U S O C K E T is supposed to be agnostic, no?
2020-07-21T14:02:07Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T14:02:14Z eta: jmercouris, what is this s p a c i n g
2020-07-21T14:02:18Z ghard: That's what I thought
2020-07-21T14:02:19Z jmercouris: must be that CL R E P L is made with S B C L, and maybe that feature is not allowed
2020-07-21T14:02:22Z eta: >_>
2020-07-21T14:02:28Z jmercouris: eta: it is the F U T U R E
2020-07-21T14:02:34Z jmercouris: I've seen all the youngins doing it
2020-07-21T14:02:46Z eta: jmercouris, (Q U I C K L I S P : Q U I C K L O A D  ' D R A K M A)
2020-07-21T14:03:05Z ghard: A good way to fsck with searching the logs for answers :)
2020-07-21T14:03:05Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:03:10Z eta: quite!
2020-07-21T14:03:20Z eta . o O ( hack the pretty-printer to do this automatically)
2020-07-21T14:03:33Z jmercouris: that's a great I D E A
2020-07-21T14:04:25Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:05:50Z equwal joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:06:06Z ghard: Too bad I was planning to scrape the interwebs into my iPad
2020-07-21T14:06:20Z eta: lispwave
2020-07-21T14:06:43Z RedMallet quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-21T14:07:02Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-21T14:07:09Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:07:10Z farooqkz__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:08:43Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-21T14:08:57Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:10:01Z ghard: Hmm let's see if I can AMQP with this thing at least (I suppose cl-bunny will need some kind of a socket lib as well.)
2020-07-21T14:10:36Z fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
2020-07-21T14:11:31Z terpri_ is now known as terpri
2020-07-21T14:11:41Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:15:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T14:16:30Z tourjin joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:17:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:19:53Z shka_: yo
2020-07-21T14:19:58Z shka_: how do i remove repo from quicklisp?
2020-07-21T14:20:26Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:20:35Z ghard: Anyway that spacing reminds me of a Tammy Wynette song
2020-07-21T14:22:22Z kg_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-21T14:22:45Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:23:52Z jackdaniel: shka_: (setf quicklisp (remove repo quicklisp)) ;) I expect that you should ask Xach to remove it
2020-07-21T14:24:29Z jackdaniel: (and I suppose he may even agree if the removal doesn't break other system)
2020-07-21T14:24:49Z akrl`` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:31:14Z thonkpod quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:31:20Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:31:27Z simplegauss quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:32:31Z sveit quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:33:00Z bacterio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:33:06Z tourjin quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T14:33:20Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:34:39Z thonkpod joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:35:03Z shka_: jackdaniel: sorry, i meant: how do i remove quicklisp distribution from my local quicklisp configuration
2020-07-21T14:35:16Z shka_: no idea why i said that
2020-07-21T14:35:19Z shka_ feels tired
2020-07-21T14:36:54Z sveit joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:36:54Z simplegauss joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:37:36Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:40:02Z shka_: gosh, there is uninstall-dist
2020-07-21T14:40:15Z shka_: sorry for stupid questions
2020-07-21T14:45:45Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:46:32Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:48:49Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:49:39Z beach: phoe: In #sicl, you have instructions for where to find my presentation.
2020-07-21T14:49:52Z hipete quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:50:09Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:55:19Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T14:56:21Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-21T14:56:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T14:57:04Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:03:45Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T15:06:07Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:07:12Z seok: Is CL-FAD popular?
2020-07-21T15:07:18Z seok: looking for something to copy files with
2020-07-21T15:08:45Z wsinatra quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T15:10:33Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:14:21Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:14:35Z ghard: uiop:copy-file?
2020-07-21T15:15:07Z ghard: Since it's highly likely ASDF/UIOP is already available in your implementation
2020-07-21T15:16:00Z thetabit joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:18:08Z phoe: beach: in #sicl, I have successfully received instructions for where to find your presentation.
2020-07-21T15:18:53Z ghard: seok: got the above?
2020-07-21T15:19:08Z seok: wait, uiop already has it?
2020-07-21T15:19:22Z seok: nice thank you
2020-07-21T15:19:25Z ghard: I think so. Next to the kitchen sink somewhere.
2020-07-21T15:19:35Z seok: yeah there is
2020-07-21T15:22:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T15:23:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:28:23Z ghard: beach: Watching the prez now. Nice!
2020-07-21T15:33:11Z bacterio joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:33:13Z RedMallet quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-21T15:35:34Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:39:35Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:41:23Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T15:42:00Z beach: ghard: You are supposed to watch it tomorrow.
2020-07-21T15:42:12Z seok: is there a sqlite library that works on windows?
2020-07-21T15:42:34Z seok: sqlite doesn't work, and it seems cl-dbi doesn't work because of sqlite dependency
2020-07-21T15:43:08Z beach: ghard: Thanks, though.
2020-07-21T15:43:18Z milanj joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:44:04Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T15:46:05Z phoe: ghard: no spoilers
2020-07-21T15:46:09Z phoe: it is for tomorrow's online lisp meeting
2020-07-21T15:46:27Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-21T15:46:29Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:46:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:47:06Z seok: There is a lisp meeting? Is it public?
2020-07-21T15:47:22Z beach: Yes.
2020-07-21T15:47:28Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-21T15:47:41Z seok: https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/hsa0m2/online_lisp_meeting_5/ this one?
2020-07-21T15:47:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:47:45Z phoe: yess
2020-07-21T15:47:54Z seok: thank you buds
2020-07-21T15:48:01Z seok: I didn't know about this
2020-07-21T15:49:50Z scymtym: beach: Xach: type 2 interpreter progress: https://techfak.de/~jmoringe/type-2-interpreter.ogv
2020-07-21T15:50:19Z phoe: woahhhh
2020-07-21T15:50:35Z beach: scymtym: Very nice!
2020-07-21T15:51:24Z ghard: beach: oops sorry for jumping the gun :)
2020-07-21T15:51:40Z beach: Don't worry about it.
2020-07-21T15:52:03Z seok: woahhhhh
2020-07-21T15:52:06Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:52:59Z Kabriel: seok: sqlite is working for me
2020-07-21T15:53:17Z Kabriel: I'm getting a strange error. See https://dpaste.com/C4A8DBXWJ
2020-07-21T15:53:33Z phoe: it's not an error
2020-07-21T15:53:36Z Kabriel: If I remove the when clause, the function compiles. What am I missing?
2020-07-21T15:53:42Z phoe: limit is always non-null
2020-07-21T15:53:49Z phoe: therefore (or limit number-items) === limit
2020-07-21T15:53:52Z seok: kabriel on windows? I'm getting error that looks like some linux-only dependency
2020-07-21T15:53:53Z wsinatra_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:53:56Z Kabriel: (test my-lst :limit nil)
2020-07-21T15:53:57Z phoe: therefore number-items is unreachable
2020-07-21T15:53:58Z rgherdt left #lisp
2020-07-21T15:54:07Z phoe: therefore SBCL optimizes it away and issues a compiler note
2020-07-21T15:54:15Z Kabriel: seok: I didn't catch the windows part.
2020-07-21T15:54:25Z Kabriel using Linux
2020-07-21T15:54:41Z seok: I want to move to linux but I don't have money to build a new computer atm
2020-07-21T15:54:42Z seok: : (
2020-07-21T15:54:53Z ghard: Use a VM
2020-07-21T15:54:55Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:55:01Z seok: Maybe
2020-07-21T15:55:02Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T15:55:16Z Kabriel: phoe: ^^ it is an input, a user can always specify the keyword.
2020-07-21T15:56:11Z phoe: Kabriel: no, LIMIT is always non-null.
2020-07-21T15:56:25Z phoe: or rather, by the time it reaches the OR form, it is always non-null.
2020-07-21T15:56:39Z phoe: if you pass NIL as LIMIT, then > is going to signal an error.
2020-07-21T15:56:52Z beach: Good catch!
2020-07-21T15:56:52Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T15:56:55Z phoe: I mean, uhh, number-items, not limit
2020-07-21T15:57:03Z phoe: number-items is always an integer
2020-07-21T15:57:07Z phoe: since it's the result of LENGTH
2020-07-21T15:57:12Z Kabriel: humbling. Compiler (and phoe) +1, me 0
2020-07-21T15:57:13Z phoe: uh no, wait, I mean limit
2020-07-21T15:57:14Z phoe: blah
2020-07-21T15:57:26Z phoe: I was right, LIMIT is always non-null by the time OR is reached
2020-07-21T15:57:31Z phoe: so NUMBER-ITEMS is never reached
2020-07-21T15:57:37Z phoe: hence compiler note
2020-07-21T15:58:16Z Kabriel: makes sense; that is why when I remove the when clause, it leaves the or statement intact
2020-07-21T15:58:31Z phoe: yes, then such type inference is no longer made
2020-07-21T15:58:41Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-21T15:58:51Z theseb: minor issue but I'm trying to put in words why some people think python is easier.....lisp has a simpler implementation & structure...so if lisp is SIMPLER...how can people say python is EASIER....python has more (complex) syntax so i don't get it....only thing i can think of is the parens bother people...is that it?
2020-07-21T15:59:24Z beach: theseb: People say things that aren't true all the time.
2020-07-21T15:59:29Z beach: Noting to be surprised about.
2020-07-21T16:00:56Z beach: theseb: When people compare programming languages, they are not necessarily rational.  Their minds are trying to justify their choice by inventing seemingly rational reasons.
2020-07-21T16:02:15Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-21T16:02:27Z phoe: theseb: same reasons as when a lisp neophyte might try to convince the world that Java sucks
2020-07-21T16:03:40Z beach: Is someone trying to do that?  It is a very bad idea.
2020-07-21T16:05:29Z phoe: I get a tiny vibe from things theseb posts that gives me such an impression; we've already had a similar conversation twice or thrice on the channel
2020-07-21T16:06:03Z phoe: "how can people say python is easier" - come on, that's literally what we've been talking about the previous time this subject was touched
2020-07-21T16:06:07Z theseb: beach: well i like both python AND lisp...i learned python years before lisp so it seems easier to me...I don't know if that's just because i've spent more time on it
2020-07-21T16:06:09Z beach: Yeah, rings a bell.  But I never remember which participant it was.  I think perhaps theseb is not alone?
2020-07-21T16:06:18Z phoe: because they find it simpler, that's it, that's the whole reason
2020-07-21T16:06:44Z lambda-smith quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T16:06:56Z theseb: beach: i think *visually* there is less stuff to look at because python trades parens for spaces...so that MIGHT be something
2020-07-21T16:07:01Z beach: theseb: I guess I am not getting my message across here.  People are not comparing things rationally.  They speak out of emotional reactions.
2020-07-21T16:07:10Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2020-07-21T16:07:11Z jprajzne1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-21T16:07:38Z beach: theseb: Here is the essence of what is going on:....
2020-07-21T16:07:44Z phoe: and "because they find it simpler" is a perfectly fine and perfectly normal and understandable thing given the way Lisp and Python have been evolving over the decades
2020-07-21T16:08:04Z phoe: which itself is a very complex issue that I don't claim to fully grasp myself
2020-07-21T16:08:13Z beach: You take a person who has a several-year investment in language A.  Then that person is told that language B is simpler, faster, more powerful.
2020-07-21T16:08:35Z beach: theseb: Our minds can't cope with that situation.  It is called cognitive dissonance.
2020-07-21T16:08:50Z beach: theseb: So their minds invent reasons for justifying their choice.
2020-07-21T16:09:11Z beach: theseb: One such possibility is to deny that it is simpler, faster, more powerful.
2020-07-21T16:09:26Z beach: That's an easy one because when can't measure simplicity or power.
2020-07-21T16:10:05Z theseb: beach: one measure of simplicity is size of grammar...lisp wins there
2020-07-21T16:10:07Z beach: theseb: Another popular thing their minds can do is to denigrate the messenger. That automatically puts the credibility of B in question.
2020-07-21T16:10:25Z beach: theseb: I give up.  You are not listening.  Good luck!
2020-07-21T16:10:27Z phoe: theseb: no it doesn't really win there
2020-07-21T16:10:35Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-21T16:10:36Z theseb: beach: another measure is amount of characters in equivalent programs...python wins there (again...spaces instead of parens)
2020-07-21T16:10:50Z beach: theseb: I give up.  You are not listening.  Good luck!
2020-07-21T16:11:04Z theseb: beach: you think it is irrational
2020-07-21T16:11:05Z theseb: i get it
2020-07-21T16:11:15Z beach: I know.  I have studied the subject.
2020-07-21T16:11:19Z theseb: or mental blocking
2020-07-21T16:11:25Z theseb: beach: really?
2020-07-21T16:11:29Z beach: The psychological phenomena, I mean.
2020-07-21T16:11:34Z theseb: oh
2020-07-21T16:11:53Z phoe: CL requires the programmers to memorize a ton of macros/special operators and their usage and arguments which are non-trivial *and* are a part of Common Lisp syntax because you cannot effectively write standard CL without them
2020-07-21T16:12:33Z phoe: while one can successfully argue that these are all symbols and therefore aren't a part of Common Lisp syntax the way the "while" keyword is a special symbol in Java syntax
2020-07-21T16:13:14Z phoe: but at that point the discussion becomes meaningless because Java syntax, defined in such a way, allows you to write basic programs, and Lisp syntax defined in such a way doesn't even allow you to call a single function, so obviously we are comparing apples and oranges here
2020-07-21T16:14:30Z theseb: phoe: i think you're saying the ramp up time for other langs is less
2020-07-21T16:14:39Z theseb: startup costs
2020-07-21T16:15:03Z beach: *sigh*
2020-07-21T16:15:12Z phoe: theseb: no, I'm saying that making the assumption "Lisp grammar === basic s-expressions" is false
2020-07-21T16:15:28Z phoe: I haven't even mentioned ramp up times anywhere, where did you pull that meaning from
2020-07-21T16:16:58Z theseb: phoe: it sounded like you were saying you had to do more initial work (" memorize a ton of macros/special operators and their usage and arguments which are non-trivial *and* are a part of Common Lisp syntax because you cannot effectively write...")
2020-07-21T16:17:29Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-21T16:17:44Z theseb: beach: on a different topic..i'm currently trying to write a simple lisp eval function in assembly
2020-07-21T16:17:46Z beach: theseb: What is the point of all this?
2020-07-21T16:17:46Z phoe: theseb: no, you learn them gradually
2020-07-21T16:18:05Z phoe: just like you learn the various parts of python/java/c/cpp/rust/whatever other language gradually
2020-07-21T16:18:07Z theseb: beach: ok..i'll tell you exactly what the point is...to be honest...
2020-07-21T16:18:15Z beach: theseb: Why on earth would you want to write something like that in assembly?
2020-07-21T16:19:11Z theseb: beach: you may recall i'm writing a curriculum..."Program To Processor"...i'm showing all steps from python to intermediate language (minimal lisp)..to assembly to machine code.....I was imagining the near future where I have to explain why some prefer python instead of lisp
2020-07-21T16:19:41Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-21T16:19:53Z theseb: beach: i was hoping to say something more scientific than just ..."different people just prefer different languages"..but i guess as you said....the issue is a complex one
2020-07-21T16:20:04Z theseb: beach: so the assembly is the last step of my compiler
2020-07-21T16:20:08Z theseb: that's why
2020-07-21T16:20:25Z theseb: comments welcomed....good or bad
2020-07-21T16:20:29Z beach: But you wouldn't write the assembly yourself.
2020-07-21T16:21:14Z narimiran_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T16:21:41Z theseb: beach: i have a simple cpu i specified...so i need to write assembly for it
2020-07-21T16:22:00Z theseb: beach: there doesn't exist a compiler for the cpu i made up! ;)
2020-07-21T16:22:05Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-21T16:22:26Z beach: No, you put the CPU specification in the code generator of a compiler, and then you write your code in Lisp.
2020-07-21T16:22:37Z phoe: theseb: time to make one
2020-07-21T16:23:02Z phoe: so, when you write an emulator for your CPU to verify it, you can ensure that it all works
2020-07-21T16:23:08Z beach: theseb: You want to write an evaluator?  Well, one type of evaluator is a compiler.  So you can write it in assembly or you can write it in Lisp.
2020-07-21T16:23:19Z beach: Why would you write it in assembly?
2020-07-21T16:23:44Z phoe: if someone works on a new CPU architecture then one of the first things I'd expect them to write is an emulator for it which can execute programs written for that CPU architecture
2020-07-21T16:24:09Z beach: theseb: It sounds like you need to follow my series of presentations for the online Lisp meetings.
2020-07-21T16:24:14Z theseb: I first convert a minimal python to minimal lisp code.....now i need to *run* that on my cpu....it doesn't know lisp so i must convert the lisp to assembly yes?
2020-07-21T16:24:35Z phoe: yes
2020-07-21T16:24:38Z phoe: how do you run that assembly then
2020-07-21T16:24:40Z beach: Yes, converting Lisp to assembly is the job of a compiler.
2020-07-21T16:24:51Z beach: So you write the compiler in Lisp.
2020-07-21T16:24:56Z theseb: beach: yes! that's what i'm writing now
2020-07-21T16:25:07Z phoe: so you're writing a compiler from X to assembly
2020-07-21T16:25:10Z beach: So why did you say you want to write an evaluator in assembly?
2020-07-21T16:25:14Z theseb: phoe: yes
2020-07-21T16:25:30Z phoe: so what beach said, why would you want to write anything high-level in raw asm
2020-07-21T16:25:52Z theseb: beach: give a sec to answer that...
2020-07-21T16:26:45Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-21T16:26:57Z theseb: beach: ok..what does it mean to "convert lisp to assembly"?...in my mind it means...you encode your program sexps into RAM....then, for assembly to "run" it...you need something in assembly that functions as the evaluator yes?
2020-07-21T16:27:28Z phoe: theseb: do you know what a compiler is?
2020-07-21T16:27:28Z beach: Yes, and you create that by cross compiling on a different Lisp system.
2020-07-21T16:27:46Z theseb: phoe: compiler essentially converts program in lang X to lang Y
2020-07-21T16:27:56Z phoe: theseb: correct
2020-07-21T16:28:04Z beach: theseb: Make the compiler compile from Lisp to assembly.
2020-07-21T16:28:06Z beach: Done!
2020-07-21T16:28:35Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-21T16:29:09Z theseb: beach: what do you mean by "cross compiling on a different Lisp system"
2020-07-21T16:29:23Z phoe: the compiler runs on x86 but generates ARM code
2020-07-21T16:29:27Z phoe: that's cross-compilation
2020-07-21T16:29:45Z beach: Write the compiler in Lisp.  It generates assembly for your machine.  Run the compiler on SBCL.  It now generates assembly for your machine.
2020-07-21T16:29:58Z phoe: obviously ARM code won't run on the same machine that the compiler is running on - but it will run on a different machine, e.g. that does not yet have a compiler of its own
2020-07-21T16:29:59Z beach: Then, compile the compiler on itself.
2020-07-21T16:30:14Z beach: theseb: This is really basic stuff.
2020-07-21T16:30:22Z phoe: that's how GCC/GHC/SBCL/CPython/PyPy/literally any other compiler is ported to new architectures
2020-07-21T16:30:26Z beach: theseb: You need to do A LOT of rading.
2020-07-21T16:30:28Z beach: reading.
2020-07-21T16:31:31Z beach: Anyway, I need to go fix dinner for my (admittedly small) family.  Good luck!
2020-07-21T16:31:37Z theseb: beach: thanks
2020-07-21T16:33:38Z theseb: phoe: yes....and if you make a new cpu.. you or someone needs to do the hard work of writing the cross compiler to target the new cpu right
2020-07-21T16:33:46Z phoe: theseb: no
2020-07-21T16:33:53Z phoe: the cross compiler already exists, it's the compiler
2020-07-21T16:34:10Z phoe: one only needs to write a new code generator for it that translates the compiler's intermediate representation into target assembly
2020-07-21T16:34:20Z phoe: that's why most compilers are modular.
2020-07-21T16:34:41Z theseb: phoe: yea...that's what i meant...we'd need to write the part to convert the intermediate code to our new cpu
2020-07-21T16:35:09Z theseb: that's what i'm on now..so i guess i'm current writing a "cross compiler"
2020-07-21T16:36:18Z theseb: phoe: do you agree when you "compile" you lisp down to asm that somewhere in that process it has to emit an evaluator in asm?
2020-07-21T16:36:40Z phoe: theseb: sure, EVAL needs to be translated into assembly
2020-07-21T16:36:43Z scymtym: beach: thanks
2020-07-21T16:36:49Z phoe: but EVAL is never *written* in assembly
2020-07-21T16:38:10Z Bike: if your lisp image does not have the eval function in it, like you can get with some comercial lisp implementations, there does not need to be any kind of evaluator in the object code.
2020-07-21T16:38:13Z theseb: phoe: oh i see what you mean....you want to first implement the LANGUAGE in assembly
2020-07-21T16:38:21Z phoe: theseb: no, not the language
2020-07-21T16:38:26Z theseb: in this case lisp
2020-07-21T16:38:29Z phoe: no!
2020-07-21T16:38:31Z theseb: or whatever the intermediate language is
2020-07-21T16:38:38Z Bike: writing anything in assembly is terrible and almost always unnecessary
2020-07-21T16:38:52Z phoe: you already have a piece of code that turns Lisp/Python/whatever into IR
2020-07-21T16:39:00Z phoe: where IR is some sorta intermediate representation
2020-07-21T16:39:12Z theseb: yes
2020-07-21T16:39:13Z phoe: you only need to write a piece of code that turns this IR into this new sort of native assembly.
2020-07-21T16:39:29Z Bike: and that code is probably itself written in lisp.
2020-07-21T16:39:33Z phoe: at this point, this IR has almost nothing in common with Lisp/Python/whatever
2020-07-21T16:39:44Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-21T16:39:53Z theseb: phoe: wow...you opened my eyes...yea...i should do what you said
2020-07-21T16:40:02Z theseb: phoe: thanks for getting thru my thick skull
2020-07-21T16:40:02Z phoe: I say "almost" because the high-level structure is still there in some cases, but it's been dissolved into IR
2020-07-21T16:40:22Z phoe: theseb: no problem, please do the same to someone new to Lisp and/or compiler theory in a few years when you gain some more experience :D
2020-07-21T16:40:27Z seok: sorry to cut in guys, emacs/slime always hang when trying to print a long line of string, this kind of behaviour doesn't exist in cmd or IDE's for other languages. is anyone bothered by this?
2020-07-21T16:40:29Z phoe: also thank beach, he's been contributing to it
2020-07-21T16:41:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T16:41:35Z theseb: phoe: yea...thanks again
2020-07-21T16:42:27Z Bike: seok: i haven't seen this. how long are we talking?
2020-07-21T16:42:59Z seok: atm I tried to print a text file 1800kb in size
2020-07-21T16:43:11Z Bike: you do that in IDEs a lot?
2020-07-21T16:43:20Z phoe: I think that's an emacs limitation, I don't know how well it handles buffers of such sizes
2020-07-21T16:43:34Z seok: sometimes when I want to know the string was received in memory
2020-07-21T16:43:35Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-21T16:43:35Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-21T16:43:36Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-21T16:43:46Z seok: I just print it
2020-07-21T16:43:53Z phoe: received in memory? what do you mean
2020-07-21T16:44:13Z seok: just to see if I have the correct string in a symbol
2020-07-21T16:44:31Z phoe: in a symbol? what do you mean
2020-07-21T16:44:45Z Bike: if i wanted to do that i would probably take the length instead.
2020-07-21T16:45:04Z phoe: and then, when you've printed, you manually read all of these 1800000 characters to verify that it matches some other string?
2020-07-21T16:45:08Z Bike: that said, if you really do want to do this for some reason, it might be speedier if you avoided some complicated parts of the printer
2020-07-21T16:45:21Z Bike: like (progn (write-string huge-file) nil) kind of thing
2020-07-21T16:45:24Z seok: (setf x (uiop:read-file-string ...)) => (print x)
2020-07-21T16:45:30Z Bike: if the slowdown is on lisp's end. about emacs, i have no idea.
2020-07-21T16:45:56Z phoe: seok: and what do you do after you've printed it to actually verify that it contains the proper data
2020-07-21T16:46:01Z seok: It's a habit, but I've never experienced such slowdowns when writing in python or node
2020-07-21T16:46:22Z phoe: I assume it's slime presentations
2020-07-21T16:46:31Z phoe: try what Bike said - (progn (print x) nil)
2020-07-21T16:46:41Z seok: thats faster?
2020-07-21T16:46:45Z phoe: this way slime/emacs won't waste time computing the presentation for that object
2020-07-21T16:46:46Z phoe: yes
2020-07-21T16:46:55Z phoe: because it won't try to print the return value *again*
2020-07-21T16:46:57Z seok: oh
2020-07-21T16:46:58Z seok: yes it is
2020-07-21T16:47:17Z Bike: does that fix your problem?
2020-07-21T16:47:23Z seok: sort of, yes
2020-07-21T16:47:38Z theseb: phoe: "you only need to write a piece of code that turns this IR into this new sort of native assembly"...can i ask one more thing about that?
2020-07-21T16:47:41Z seok: I see, it hangs while trying to load the value of the return
2020-07-21T16:47:44Z phoe: theseb: sure
2020-07-21T16:47:51Z phoe: seok: yes, that part is called a presentation
2020-07-21T16:48:05Z seok: right
2020-07-21T16:48:14Z seok: I learn something new everyday here : D
2020-07-21T16:48:27Z seok: ty
2020-07-21T16:48:44Z kaftejiman_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T16:49:07Z theseb: phoe: suppose your IR is lisp-ish.....so it may define variables, add to an "environment", evaluate sexps...etc.......Now...when you convert that to assembly....you'll need to implement asm code to mimic an environment, define variables, evaluate sexps, etc right?
2020-07-21T16:49:20Z phoe: theseb: that's not IR
2020-07-21T16:49:36Z Bike: compiled lisp code does not need environments or variables or an evaluator.
2020-07-21T16:49:37Z phoe: or even if it is, it isn't the sort of IR that assembly is generated from.
2020-07-21T16:49:39Z Bike: it doesn't. i promise.
2020-07-21T16:49:56Z phoe: by the time you get to the lowest level of an IR, you no longer have environments or evaluator or whatever Bike said
2020-07-21T16:49:57Z Bike: just try it. get PAIP or something. compile to some virtual machine.
2020-07-21T16:50:20Z phoe: try reading some Python bytecode if you have a Python background
2020-07-21T16:50:26Z Bike: it's easy. you can write a compiler for a simple scheme dialect to a simple VM in like an hour.
2020-07-21T16:50:58Z kaftejiman quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T16:51:32Z theseb: phoe: so my "IR" is too high level?
2020-07-21T16:51:36Z phoe: yes
2020-07-21T16:51:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T16:51:47Z phoe: it's literally Lisp
2020-07-21T16:51:59Z Bike: the IR is chosen for the compiler dev's convenience. it is inconvenient if it can't be translated into machine code fairly simply.
2020-07-21T16:52:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T16:52:33Z theseb: Bike: i believe you ...i just can't see right now how you could make lisp code so low level it has no concept of an environment and eval
2020-07-21T16:52:46Z theseb: i'll need to read more about IRs
2020-07-21T16:52:46Z phoe: it's simple, it no longer looks like lisp code at that point
2020-07-21T16:52:48Z Bike: okay. imagine the function: (defun foo (x) x)
2020-07-21T16:53:01Z Bike: in machine code, this would move the argument, which is in some register, to the first return value register, and then return.
2020-07-21T16:53:33Z theseb: Bike: yes but your example also adds 'foo' to the environment
2020-07-21T16:53:48Z theseb: Bike: what if foo is called somewhere else in code
2020-07-21T16:53:52Z Bike: "environment" means a couple different things.
2020-07-21T16:53:56Z theseb: now your doing an asm lookup in asm
2020-07-21T16:54:13Z theseb: sorry.. i mean..now your doing an env search in asm
2020-07-21T16:54:15Z phoe: you no longer have variables, you have registers; you no longer have environments, you have memory locations; you no longer have functions, you have pointers in the global function hash table
2020-07-21T16:54:19Z Bike: in a running lisp image you probably do have some kind of global environment.
2020-07-21T16:54:29Z Bike: you don't really need LEXICAL environments, which is what i assumed you were talking about.
2020-07-21T16:54:54Z theseb: phoe: yes
2020-07-21T16:55:00Z Bike: depending on how your lisp implementation works, it might be possible to compile programs that don't have a persistent lisp image, and so have no global environment.
2020-07-21T16:55:03Z phoe: so, does that answer your question?
2020-07-21T16:55:13Z theseb: phoe: you're saying you have primtive equivalents in asm to all that lisp stuff
2020-07-21T16:55:15Z Bike: in that case defining functions with different names would work like it does in C or something.
2020-07-21T16:55:21Z phoe: theseb: "equivalents"?
2020-07-21T16:55:22Z phoe: hell no
2020-07-21T16:55:32Z theseb: phoe: registers instead of variables,....etc
2020-07-21T16:55:33Z phoe: they are THE LISP STUFF that has been compiled to assembly
2020-07-21T16:55:50Z Bike: i mean, the point of a compiler is to make machine code that has equivalent effects to some lisp code.
2020-07-21T16:56:01Z phoe: except for simple things like variables, yeah, the compiler usually gets rid of those as optimizations
2020-07-21T16:56:06Z Bike: that's what a lisp compiler is. that's the definition. you're making an "equivalent".
2020-07-21T16:56:42Z Bike: but there's no necessary correspondence whatsoever between particular structures in the lisp code and structures in the machine code.
2020-07-21T16:57:03Z Bike: this isn't unique to lisp. this is how compilers work.
2020-07-21T16:57:46Z jackdaniel: I want a mnemonic in my assembler for defclass
2020-07-21T16:58:17Z jackdaniel: dfc [magic] [more magic]
2020-07-21T16:58:25Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T16:58:37Z phoe: new lisp machine cpus when
2020-07-21T16:59:11Z Bike: the lack of correspondence may be more obvious in weird compilers. like you can compile lisp to FRACTRAN, in which programs are sequences of rational numbers. in the end it can all be arithmetic.
2020-07-21T16:59:29Z phoe: more, you can compile Lisp into https://esolangs.org/wiki/Parenthesis_Hell
2020-07-21T17:00:19Z phoe: that's a sequence of parens that can be encoded into a bit vector
2020-07-21T17:00:21Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-21T17:00:28Z phoe: and computers like bits
2020-07-21T17:01:25Z Bike: or if you have (defun foo (x) (let ((y x)) y)) that'll probably compile identically to my previous example.
2020-07-21T17:02:51Z RedMallet quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-21T17:04:42Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-21T17:04:50Z theseb: phoe: SICP in chapter 5 has a nice exposition where they specify a lisp evaluator in a assembly-like language...then that is meant to be converted to their random access machine
2020-07-21T17:05:16Z theBlackDragon quit (Quit: Boom.)
2020-07-21T17:05:41Z theseb: they go thru each special form like lambdas and write them out in their low level spec
2020-07-21T17:06:17Z phoe: don't think there exists a machine that accepts such low level spec as direct input without compiling it further along the way
2020-07-21T17:08:44Z theseb: phoe: right.....i guess their low level spec is the lower level IR between lisp and asm you were talking about
2020-07-21T17:09:35Z Bike: which section are you talking about precisely? i'm looking at chapter five now.
2020-07-21T17:10:09Z Bike: do you mean like make-compiled-procedure?
2020-07-21T17:10:40Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T17:11:33Z Bike: or like, in "compiling conditional expressions", there's a "false?" op but that's it. there's no "op" for if itself per se
2020-07-21T17:11:52Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2020-07-21T17:12:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-21T17:12:49Z theseb: Bike: let me see...
2020-07-21T17:12:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T17:13:39Z theseb: Bike: p513 has their slighly higher level pseudo-assembly that i guess you could call an IR
2020-07-21T17:13:55Z Bike: i'm reading online and don't have page numbers.
2020-07-21T17:14:51Z theseb: Bike: https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-31.html#%_sec_5.1.5
2020-07-21T17:15:04Z theseb: https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-31.html#%_sec_5.1.5
2020-07-21T17:15:14Z theseb: "https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-31.html#%_sec_5.1.5"
2020-07-21T17:15:24Z Bike: you can stop.
2020-07-21T17:15:25Z phoe: theseb: once is enough
2020-07-21T17:15:26Z theseb: irc keeps remove the underscores
2020-07-21T17:15:34Z Bike: it doesn't. the link works.
2020-07-21T17:15:35Z phoe: huh? not for me
2020-07-21T17:15:45Z phoe: maybe your IRC has some very stupid markdown support
2020-07-21T17:15:55Z phoe: that turns _this_ into italics or whatever
2020-07-21T17:16:00Z Bike: anyway, this register-machine language isn't really an IR, it's the target machine.
2020-07-21T17:16:09Z Bike: for a compiler targeting real machines it might be nice as an IR, though.
2020-07-21T17:16:33Z phoe: it's working on registers, calls operations on operands, has tests and jumps
2020-07-21T17:16:39Z phoe: looks like a standard modern CPU
2020-07-21T17:16:48Z Bike: yeah, pretty much.
2020-07-21T17:16:51Z phoe: also has a stack
2020-07-21T17:17:12Z theseb: https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-34.html#%_sec_5.4.1
2020-07-21T17:17:29Z theseb: ^^ Starting there you can see where they are literally coding eval in their IR/asm
2020-07-21T17:17:45Z phoe: theseb: have you seen the metacircular evaluator?
2020-07-21T17:18:06Z Bike: you can write (defun eval (form env) ...) and compile that and get something like what they have there.
2020-07-21T17:18:11Z phoe: https://xuanji.appspot.com/isicp/4-1-metacircular.html
2020-07-21T17:18:22Z phoe: see the definition of `eval` which is the first big block of code there
2020-07-21T17:18:30Z theseb: phoe: wait....before i answer that...so you see i wasn't crazy.....even the SICP geniuses are doing an eval in asm yes?
2020-07-21T17:18:33Z Bike: and then you don't actually need to use this evaluating function unless, at runtime, you want to evaluate some code.
2020-07-21T17:18:33Z phoe: that's literally a COND which is a series of IF statements
2020-07-21T17:18:37Z phoe: theseb: no!!!
2020-07-21T17:18:55Z phoe: they've written EVAL in Lisp first and foremost
2020-07-21T17:19:11Z phoe: and then they're doing a convenience of showing you what it will look like when it's translated into this IR of theirs
2020-07-21T17:19:50Z phoe: inside 5.4.1, they have a series of TEST calls intertwined with BRANCH/GOTO calls
2020-07-21T17:20:09Z phoe: that's a literal translation of COND into their IR
2020-07-21T17:20:22Z phoe: or rather, a cond full of simple function calls
2020-07-21T17:20:35Z phoe: (self-evaluating? x), (variable? x), (quoted? x), etc..
2020-07-21T17:20:52Z phoe: if one of them returns true (which is what the TEST instruction does), their code branches out into the proper place
2020-07-21T17:20:58Z phoe: that's a literal jump
2020-07-21T17:21:15Z phoe: in x86 one could say it's a JNZ - jump if non-zero/true
2020-07-21T17:21:39Z theseb: phoe: yea..they specified eval in lisp....then they are specifying their eval in their IR
2020-07-21T17:22:01Z theseb: errr translating their lisp eval spec into their Ir
2020-07-21T17:22:04Z phoe: 5.4.1 states that this is EVAL translated into IR
2020-07-21T17:22:05Z Bike: they're showing what the lisp definition of eval would compile to, as an example.
2020-07-21T17:22:06Z phoe: yes
2020-07-21T17:22:29Z Bike: If you were doing this yourself you could just have your compiler do that and write no assembly yourself.
2020-07-21T17:22:55Z theseb: Bike: you just need to implement their IR in asm
2020-07-21T17:23:04Z phoe: yes, and that is not very hard
2020-07-21T17:23:06Z theseb: Bike: e.g. what they call "test", "assign", etc.
2020-07-21T17:23:24Z Bike: in this hypothetical example, the IR is an actual machine. It is the end point.
2020-07-21T17:23:27Z phoe: translating from IR into ASM is usually simple, provided that all instructions have explicit or simple enough mappings
2020-07-21T17:23:53Z Bike: and anyway translating this VM into actual machine code would be pretty easy.
2020-07-21T17:23:59Z Bike: like, there's a jump. that would be translated into a jump.
2020-07-21T17:24:24Z theseb: phoe: thank god ;)
2020-07-21T17:24:46Z theseb: phoe: i need to implement their IR to not go crazy in asm ;)
2020-07-21T17:24:57Z phoe: theseb: I can see that in 5.4 they explicitly write out code for some procedures that are not required to be written in their IR
2020-07-21T17:26:58Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-21T17:29:48Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-21T17:31:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T17:32:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T17:38:36Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-21T17:39:47Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-21T17:40:00Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-21T17:40:00Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-21T17:40:00Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-21T17:44:21Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-21T17:46:33Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-21T17:47:44Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T17:56:37Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-21T17:56:53Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2020-07-21T17:57:47Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-21T17:58:26Z fbmnds left #lisp
2020-07-21T18:00:48Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2020-07-21T18:02:59Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-21T18:10:44Z kaftejiman_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T18:24:56Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-21T18:25:17Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T18:29:19Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T18:29:37Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T18:29:55Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T18:30:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T18:31:13Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-21T18:32:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T18:37:47Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T18:38:45Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-21T18:39:03Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T18:40:00Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-21T18:45:47Z farooqkz__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T18:48:23Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-21T18:51:48Z arbv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-21T18:52:11Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-21T18:52:34Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T18:52:45Z johntalent joined #lisp
2020-07-21T18:56:23Z milanj joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:00:00Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:03:47Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T19:04:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:07:09Z wsinatra_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-21T19:07:29Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:09:18Z narimiran_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:09:55Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-21T19:12:13Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-21T19:16:52Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T19:17:34Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-21T19:18:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:20:05Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:20:05Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-21T19:20:05Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:25:33Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:26:05Z kaftejiman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T19:29:32Z natter joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:30:55Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T19:31:42Z younder joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:42:40Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T19:46:43Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:49:32Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T19:49:34Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-21T19:50:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T19:53:06Z noface left #lisp
2020-07-21T20:01:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T20:02:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T20:03:49Z countvaj` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T20:04:04Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-21T20:05:06Z ayuce left #lisp
2020-07-21T20:09:46Z vhost- quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T20:10:20Z milanj quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-21T20:10:48Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-21T20:16:22Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T20:18:24Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-21T20:19:00Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-07-21T20:19:45Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T20:23:37Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2020-07-21T20:33:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T20:34:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T20:36:20Z vhost- joined #lisp
2020-07-21T20:36:25Z narimiran_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-21T20:38:13Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T20:42:16Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T20:46:45Z kapil_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-21T20:47:17Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T20:49:17Z kapil_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T20:55:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-21T20:56:22Z mankaev quit
2020-07-21T20:56:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:02:42Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-21T21:03:09Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:06:53Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-21T21:07:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:07:04Z Frobozz joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:07:36Z Archenoth quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-21T21:09:37Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-21T21:10:23Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:10:23Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-21T21:10:23Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:14:11Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T21:14:35Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T21:15:38Z lerax quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-21T21:21:54Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-21T21:22:34Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:24:46Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:25:26Z Harag` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-21T21:33:12Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:36:19Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-21T21:37:21Z mankaev__ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:37:55Z mankaev__ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-21T21:44:06Z mankaev quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.6 - http://znc.in)
2020-07-21T21:45:22Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:48:10Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:48:11Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T21:54:16Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-21T21:55:35Z mankaev quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-21T21:59:42Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:05:25Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T22:05:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T22:09:36Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:10:00Z mankaev quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-21T22:10:07Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:18:20Z zig joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:19:04Z zig: what's up?
2020-07-21T22:19:06Z zig: :)
2020-07-21T22:19:31Z phoe: me, for about one minute more
2020-07-21T22:19:35Z phoe: good night~
2020-07-21T22:25:15Z wooden_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2020-07-21T22:28:58Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:31:44Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T22:39:25Z reggie__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T22:39:34Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:42:40Z wooden joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:42:40Z wooden quit (Changing host)
2020-07-21T22:42:40Z wooden joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:45:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:49:05Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-21T22:49:15Z joast quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-21T22:51:47Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T22:56:00Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:57:52Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:59:43Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-21T22:59:45Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T23:00:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-21T23:00:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T23:00:40Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-21T23:02:57Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T23:07:05Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T23:08:09Z joast joined #lisp
2020-07-21T23:08:40Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-21T23:09:15Z coetry joined #lisp
2020-07-21T23:11:13Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-21T23:12:05Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-21T23:19:37Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-21T23:23:18Z ilshad joined #lisp
2020-07-21T23:26:21Z coetry quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-07-21T23:35:21Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-21T23:35:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-21T23:42:52Z thetabit quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-21T23:45:11Z Frobozz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-21T23:45:28Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-21T23:45:37Z Frobozz joined #lisp
2020-07-21T23:47:34Z ilshad left #lisp
2020-07-21T23:53:23Z lucasb joined #lisp
2020-07-21T23:53:33Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:08:39Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:08:45Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T00:09:39Z nicktick joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:11:43Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T00:13:43Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:21:52Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:23:31Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:23:54Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:24:53Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:25:22Z ilshad joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:26:57Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T00:33:08Z ghard quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T00:33:16Z ghard joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:35:47Z ilshad quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-22T00:36:54Z abhixec joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:41:37Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-22T00:47:17Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T00:55:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T00:55:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T00:57:14Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T01:02:34Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T01:03:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T01:04:11Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T01:06:50Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T01:07:12Z wxie1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T01:08:18Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T01:16:04Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-22T01:16:26Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-22T01:31:19Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T01:31:28Z abhixec quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T01:33:40Z matzy_: has anyone has problems installing the Mito ORM on MacOS before? It worked fine for me on linux, so I don't get why it won't work on mac
2020-07-22T01:34:32Z matzy_: to make things stranger, it looks like the problem is coming from the "dissect" package
2020-07-22T01:34:38Z matzy_: which is a dependency of mito
2020-07-22T01:35:49Z Bike: what problem are you having?
2020-07-22T01:36:32Z matzy_: I got a COMPILE-FILE-ERROR when compiling ....../quicklisp/software/dissect-20180131-git/backend/sbcl.lisp
2020-07-22T01:36:55Z matzy_: (well, it was automatically compiling and then threw the error)
2020-07-22T01:37:13Z Bike: could you paste the whole backtrace/error/etc somewhere? dissect is a pretty small portability library, i'm surprised to hear of a problem with it.
2020-07-22T01:37:30Z matzy_: that's exactly what surprised me so much
2020-07-22T01:37:34Z matzy_: sure thing, thanks
2020-07-22T01:38:34Z matzy_: https://pastebin.com/kMvg2FCD
2020-07-22T01:39:05Z fe[nl]ix: matzy_: you have the wrong version of dissect: the current one is 20200427
2020-07-22T01:39:38Z Bike: oh, yeah, your dissect is older than the last change to that file on github.
2020-07-22T01:40:56Z matzy_: so should I continue working through quicklisp to fix this? i'm surprised it messed up when it worked fine on linux
2020-07-22T01:41:20Z matzy_: uninstall dissect via quicklisp and re-install?  or just replace folder myself?
2020-07-22T01:41:24Z Bike: your quicklisp is out of date maybe? try ql:update-all-dists
2020-07-22T01:41:32Z matzy_: ah, good idea, thanks
2020-07-22T01:42:01Z johntalent quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-22T01:42:15Z Bike: possibly ql:update-client too.
2020-07-22T01:43:49Z matzy_: awesome, need to reboot now that I updated quicklisp.  i'll let you know if it worked!
2020-07-22T01:44:01Z matzy_: thanks!!
2020-07-22T01:44:21Z matzy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T01:46:02Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T01:46:44Z Bike: i'm kind of curious how a quicklisp update means a reboot
2020-07-22T01:48:04Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T02:01:17Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-22T02:05:13Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T02:09:22Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T02:09:42Z matzy_: that worked! thanks everyone!
2020-07-22T02:13:04Z lucasb quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-22T02:18:59Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T02:19:44Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-22T02:25:47Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T02:27:07Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T02:27:15Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T02:29:07Z natter: matzy_: important question though, why did a quicklisp update necessitate a reboot?
2020-07-22T02:30:10Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T02:30:55Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-22T02:38:10Z matzy_: i'm not sure, it just said to reboot your machine
2020-07-22T02:38:35Z matzy_: and i dont use macs very often so i wasnt about to argue
2020-07-22T02:38:50Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-22T02:43:47Z leo_song_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-22T02:44:05Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-22T02:53:46Z ski quit (Killed (Sigyn (Stay safe off irc)))
2020-07-22T02:54:33Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-22T02:54:44Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-22T02:55:02Z karlosz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T02:55:53Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-22T02:58:32Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-22T03:02:07Z Bike quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-22T03:05:27Z ski joined #lisp
2020-07-22T03:14:49Z edgar-rft likes to use the macs in emacs
2020-07-22T03:16:36Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-22T03:16:44Z Oladon: Morning beach!
2020-07-22T03:17:44Z natter: howdy
2020-07-22T03:17:52Z edgar-rft: mornings are always good when beach appears :-)
2020-07-22T03:18:25Z beach: Heh!
2020-07-22T03:18:43Z Oladon: edgar-rft: But beach always appears in the "morning"...
2020-07-22T03:20:04Z beach: natter: Are you new here?  I don't recognize your nick.
2020-07-22T03:20:33Z edgar-rft: Oladon: let's synchronize our clocks with beach's
2020-07-22T03:20:55Z natter: a bit new!
2020-07-22T03:21:13Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T03:21:28Z beach: I see.
2020-07-22T03:22:04Z Oladon: edgar-rft: We don't have to... we have internet time :)
2020-07-22T03:22:12Z Oladon: beach: Happen to have the explanatory link handy?
2020-07-22T03:23:00Z beach: Of what?
2020-07-22T03:23:00Z beach:  
2020-07-22T03:23:14Z Oladon: Global Internet Time, or whatever its proper name is
2020-07-22T03:23:31Z Oladon: edgar-rft: In short, it's always morning when someone logs in, and night when someone leaves.
2020-07-22T03:23:38Z beach: Ah, that one.  I would have to Google it.  Universal Greeting Time.
2020-07-22T03:23:43Z Oladon: Ah, that's it.
2020-07-22T03:23:50Z Oladon: I can never remember the proper name.
2020-07-22T03:24:03Z Oladon: edgar-rft: http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
2020-07-22T03:30:04Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-22T03:50:13Z edgar-rft: Oladon: It's always morning because always someone joins and it's always night because always someone leaves. But only when beach appears it's a *good* morning and as far as I can remember Universal Greeting Time says nothing about good or bad mornings. Maybe that is a thing that needs to be added.
2020-07-22T03:52:38Z beach: Back on topic: Don't forget the online Lisp meeting today at 13:00 UTC+2.
2020-07-22T03:56:40Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-22T03:59:17Z Oladon: Hrm, I would enjoy attending that, but that's reeeeeeally early to be up.
2020-07-22T03:59:45Z beach: It will be available as a recording later.
2020-07-22T04:00:45Z Oladon: Ah, the marvels of modern technology.
2020-07-22T04:00:56Z beach: Indeed.
2020-07-22T04:11:29Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-22T04:11:37Z nicktick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T04:14:01Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-22T04:18:05Z matzy_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T04:19:29Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-22T04:23:30Z iissaacc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T04:23:46Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-22T04:24:01Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T04:27:02Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-22T04:28:25Z jeosol: Good morning all
2020-07-22T04:29:49Z jeosol: is anyone working with graph (not plots, but as in graph with vertices and edges) in CL. In my limited search  came across "cl-graph" and "graph-utils". Has anyone use these or other libraries
2020-07-22T04:30:36Z Oladon: G'night all!
2020-07-22T04:38:19Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-22T04:43:34Z rwcom3417491 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T04:45:01Z rwcom3417491 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-22T04:48:08Z ilshad joined #lisp
2020-07-22T04:49:50Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-22T04:55:42Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T04:58:13Z ilshad quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T04:58:42Z coltkirk joined #lisp
2020-07-22T05:06:52Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T05:07:08Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T05:12:15Z matzy_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T05:14:43Z beach: jeosol: I think graphs have the same problems as sets.  There is no best way to represent them that will cover all operations someone might want to apply.  That's why we have stacks, queues, trees, dictionaries, contatenable queues, union-find sets, etc.  So it is unlikely that you will find a library that covers precisely the operations you want.
2020-07-22T05:16:43Z beach: jeosol: Oh, and you have additional characteristics such as arcs/edges with or without data attached to them, whether a vertex can be part of more than one graph, etc., etc.
2020-07-22T05:17:53Z beach: Of course graph theory completely ignores these issues.
2020-07-22T05:18:53Z beach: Certain representations allow for multiple edges/arcs between two vertices.  Others don't.
2020-07-22T05:20:20Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-22T05:29:09Z jeosol: Thanks for that. I was just trying to avoid confusion so someone doesn't plots so someone doesn't mention gnuplot and related utils
2020-07-22T05:30:31Z jeosol: I am glad you mention those data structures, that is something I am interested in as well. I still have to search for a cl library with those data structures. I was recently looking at heaps (max-, min-heaps) and linked-lists and stacks for some applications - general ADTs but in CL
2020-07-22T05:30:50Z beach: I understand.  And I just wanted to let you know that you are unlikely to find a library that will fit your needs.  If I were you, I would start by figuring out the operations you need, and then come up with an appropriate representation.
2020-07-22T05:31:00Z jeosol: for the graph, I am looking at simple problems, e.g., topological sort, some graph search (dfs, bfs, etc)
2020-07-22T05:31:56Z jeosol: I agree with your comment beach. The ones i mention contains some useful bits. I will check their licenses and the ones that are mostly full feature and just add what I need and release it back out there.
2020-07-22T05:32:08Z beach: Those algorithms are so simple that it is probably not worth the effort trying to convince an existing library to support them.
2020-07-22T05:32:19Z zig: jeosol: how big is the graph? does it fit in RAM?
2020-07-22T05:32:24Z jeosol: For now, I am not doing anything with production, it's just a utility to support them.
2020-07-22T05:32:30Z jeosol: zig: nothing specific
2020-07-22T05:32:54Z jeosol: I just got out of python land last few weeks, I wanted to do some of the work I did in CL.
2020-07-22T05:33:08Z zig: jeosol: you should know if it is more or less than RAM. Usually it is less.
2020-07-22T05:33:18Z jeosol: I don't anticipate issues with scale or anything for now.
2020-07-22T05:33:20Z zig: jeosol: what were you using in Python?
2020-07-22T05:33:21Z jeosol: zig: I agree with that
2020-07-22T05:33:48Z jeosol: I didn't search for any specific libraries, I just used simple adjacently list representations, no ADT for the graph bit
2020-07-22T05:34:03Z zig: hmm ok
2020-07-22T05:34:16Z zig: jeosol: do the same in CL :)
2020-07-22T05:34:19Z jeosol: I was just doing simple bfs, dfs, dijkstra, bellman-ford, just search, paths, etc. small algos
2020-07-22T05:34:27Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-22T05:34:58Z jeosol: zig: that's my thought, using a simple adjlist will be easy to implement. Then I will want to take a large social graph from the next and do some test.
2020-07-22T05:35:31Z jeosol: It's the latter that I wanted to search if there are existing data structures in CL land.
2020-07-22T05:35:56Z jeosol: I am sure there is. These are common tasks
2020-07-22T05:36:28Z jeosol: beach: you have a talk today right?
2020-07-22T05:36:34Z beach: I do.
2020-07-22T05:37:01Z jeosol: I lost track of the time, please can you remind me. I have been out for while
2020-07-22T05:37:11Z beach: Just one remark, if you choose adjacency list, i.e. for each vertex, you associate a list of adjacent vertices or edges, you just then automatically excluded the possibility of a vertex being part of more than one graph.
2020-07-22T05:37:37Z zig: I was working on bigger than RAM graph library, and the most wanted feature was graph algorithms, apparantly it is easy to fail at implementing those.
2020-07-22T05:37:38Z beach: 13:00 UTC+2, but there are two speakers and I may not be the first one.
2020-07-22T05:37:45Z jeosol: beach: yes, exactly. That's how i listed my case in python
2020-07-22T05:38:21Z beach: What I mean is that you should think hard about whether this restriction is acceptable to you.
2020-07-22T05:38:22Z jeosol: I just listed the nodes and associated edges by hand and also took care of the order of any edge (u,v) if it directed
2020-07-22T05:38:23Z zig: that said, you can have some inspiration from say networkx
2020-07-22T05:38:26Z pok quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T05:38:34Z jeosol: beach: good point.
2020-07-22T05:38:35Z solrize_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T05:38:35Z beach: If not, you will go down the wrong path from day 1.
2020-07-22T05:38:54Z solrize quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T05:39:03Z zig: an edge in multiple graphs? is that a thing?
2020-07-22T05:39:04Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T05:39:19Z jeosol: well, the trade off, will really be adjacency matrix (for dense graphs) and list (for sparse ones). My problems are small now
2020-07-22T05:39:27Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-22T05:39:45Z beach: zig: Sure, you could have two graphs of cities.  One graph with roads, and one with airline routes.
2020-07-22T05:40:02Z jeosol: beach is in 10^d space.
2020-07-22T05:40:02Z beach: I think zig just proved my point that this is a hard topic.
2020-07-22T05:40:13Z zig: beach: ah very interesting problem, but I never got into it for real.
2020-07-22T05:40:15Z jeosol: that's something I'd like to consider to, so called multi-layer graphs
2020-07-22T05:40:16Z pok joined #lisp
2020-07-22T05:40:37Z beach: jeosol: So it's good that I brought that up.
2020-07-22T05:41:06Z jeosol: I saw some application been described on YT about those multi-layer graphs with some kind of communications
2020-07-22T05:41:15Z jeosol: beach: exactly, of course.
2020-07-22T05:42:53Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T05:42:57Z zig: I read on _easier_ RDF repo, that they wanted the ability for an edge to point to a subgraph x)
2020-07-22T05:43:31Z zig: that is an edge could connect two vertices, a vertice and a subgraph or two subgraphs
2020-07-22T05:43:52Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T05:44:25Z jeosol: beach: it will be interesting to design for that from the start, but I agree, better think about that.
2020-07-22T05:44:35Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-22T05:47:14Z zig: I have an urge to mention my library, even if it is not very popular..
2020-07-22T05:47:26Z zig: nvm
2020-07-22T05:49:33Z jeosol: it's a graph lib?
2020-07-22T05:50:40Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-22T05:51:29Z jeosol: I did quick review of cl-graph and graph-utils. The cl-graph has MIT-license, no info on the other lib. They have overlapping development history.
2020-07-22T05:52:47Z zig: I would say yes, but it is not implemented using the regular matrix or adjacency list, also the primary implementation is backed by sqlite lsm extension. The primary advantage is that you can query for edges and vertices without scaning the whole graph.
2020-07-22T05:53:16Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-22T05:53:42Z zig: I guess it will be a little bit inconvenient if you are getting started in the graph computing space and like I said, it is not very popular even if it use to have 100 stars on github.
2020-07-22T05:55:25Z jeosol: not starting per se, but took classes a long time ago. I had to teach a class and the students where using python
2020-07-22T05:55:45Z narimiran_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T05:56:31Z jeosol: I flirted the space in the past. Recently I am also looking at neo4j. I'll just want to work with CL for some of the concepts I am testing, but nothing hardcore at social networks scale
2020-07-22T05:57:36Z zig: I tried neo4j, tinkerpop, datomic and some rdf databases like virtuoso
2020-07-22T05:57:49Z zig: I also did small xp with python's networkx
2020-07-22T05:57:55Z jeosol: oh cool, you have a lot more expertise in this space.
2020-07-22T05:58:09Z zig: sort of
2020-07-22T05:58:32Z zig: one of my main requirement was the ability to query the graph using my favorite programming language
2020-07-22T05:58:52Z zig: (I have no professional project using graphdbs)
2020-07-22T05:58:58Z jeosol: For me, its more theoretical, I'd to start looking at serious problems once I get a good handle of all the base techniques, SSSP, ASSP, network flows, etc, and implementation issues
2020-07-22T05:59:15Z jeosol: which is what language?
2020-07-22T05:59:32Z zig: It used to be Python, then I moved to Scheme.
2020-07-22T05:59:50Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T06:00:52Z jeosol: why you left python? I am not that good at it, but the version issues is a pain to deal with. Something I never had to worry with CL. I just update my SBCL, all my code runs
2020-07-22T06:01:18Z jeosol: *at least most of the time
2020-07-22T06:04:21Z zig: the version issues?
2020-07-22T06:04:51Z zig: I replaced Python with Scheme because of the Global Interpreter Lock and generally because of performance
2020-07-22T06:05:03Z zig: also the community is better ;)
2020-07-22T06:05:44Z zig: it was specifically because I wanted to build that graphdb using a fast dynamic programming language (read: not rust)
2020-07-22T06:05:52Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T06:06:56Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T06:06:57Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-22T06:07:00Z zig: fwiw, I have done some preliminary benchmarks, and the Scheme code is always faster than existing and established Java and C equivalent (spoiler: I rely on C FFI)
2020-07-22T06:07:23Z zig: I guess CL will be in the same ballpark
2020-07-22T06:09:32Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-22T06:10:27Z zig: the downside of this choice is that my contribution is downplayed because parens and because dynamically typed programming language... Also because I do not support the same interface than the standard
2020-07-22T06:28:32Z jeosol: zig: that's interesting.
2020-07-22T06:30:14Z jeosol: so you need speed. Have people seen the benchmark results with Java and C? . I read that as a win for Scheme
2020-07-22T06:34:18Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T06:45:52Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-22T06:50:06Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-22T06:50:58Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-22T06:51:56Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-22T06:53:18Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-22T06:56:40Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-22T06:57:05Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:00:38Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T07:00:53Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:01:11Z jprajzne quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-22T07:01:37Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:04:19Z easye: jeosol: Which benchmarks are you referring to?
2020-07-22T07:05:42Z jeosol: I was referring to zig's benchmark results. He said his graphdb implemention in scheme is faster that Java and C
2020-07-22T07:05:59Z jeosol: *should have tagged him, but he's probably out
2020-07-22T07:06:11Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T07:06:49Z easye: Ah.  How much faster?   How does he account for implementation in the various languages?
2020-07-22T07:09:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:12:28Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-22T07:13:48Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T07:17:26Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T07:17:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-22T07:18:05Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:19:55Z jeosol: easye: good question. I am sure zig have some answers
2020-07-22T07:20:15Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-22T07:23:20Z d4ryus1 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:23:50Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:23:55Z zig: it is much faster, compared to Java it is two to three times faster and compared to C it is 10% faster.
2020-07-22T07:24:35Z zig: The thing is that both projects C and Java, rely on an ad-hoc btree or whatever, whereas my project used to rely on wiredtiger.
2020-07-22T07:24:45Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T07:25:16Z zig: I want to stress that I rely on C FFI unlike those projects that rolled their own backing store. Also, my project is about a database, not a graph library.
2020-07-22T07:25:31Z zig: I mean it is some kind of graphdb.
2020-07-22T07:26:14Z zig: Yeah, people have seen the benchmark, but at the time it required a lot of disk space and like I mentioned, I do not implement the full standard spec so.. worthless for them since they want a drop-in replacement
2020-07-22T07:27:17Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:27:58Z d4ryus1 is now known as d4ryus
2020-07-22T07:29:13Z zig: To be precise, it is a triple store, but it does not implement RDF spec which is afaiu garbage. They are good ideas in RDF but the execution is not great.
2020-07-22T07:29:43Z zig: On top of the tripel store, you can a regular property graph.
2020-07-22T07:29:53Z zig: On top of the triple store, you can have a regular property graph.
2020-07-22T07:30:14Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T07:32:31Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:34:20Z markasoftware: If I pass (namestring) a string, will it ever return a modified version of that string?
2020-07-22T07:34:42Z phoe: markasoftware: you mean #'namestring?
2020-07-22T07:34:49Z markasoftware: bleh
2020-07-22T07:35:00Z markasoftware: indeed I do
2020-07-22T07:35:19Z phoe: (namestring x) where X is a string will first convert X to a pathname and then convert it back... well... into a string I guess
2020-07-22T07:35:33Z phoe: since #'NAMESTRING expects a pathname designator
2020-07-22T07:35:38Z phoe: and strings are pathname designators
2020-07-22T07:36:09Z phoe: so I guess that'll mostly work but be highly unnecessary and might introduce implementation-dependent weirdnesses
2020-07-22T07:36:53Z markasoftware: ok, i'll just pop in a typep to make sure I only run it for pathnames
2020-07-22T07:37:12Z markasoftware: This is the right way to prepare a pathname for being used as a command line argument, right?
2020-07-22T07:37:15Z phoe: I'd use LET over (E)TYPECASE but that's a matter of taste
2020-07-22T07:37:31Z phoe: uiop:native-namestring is at least 10% better over cl:namestring
2020-07-22T07:37:34Z phoe: it'
2020-07-22T07:37:44Z phoe: it'll do what you mean in most cases
2020-07-22T07:38:52Z markasoftware: this is good news
2020-07-22T07:38:54Z markasoftware: Thank you!
2020-07-22T07:39:02Z phoe: s/over/than/
2020-07-22T07:39:09Z phoe: gaaah I am sleepy
2020-07-22T07:41:55Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T07:43:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:44:03Z gxt quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-22T07:44:33Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:48:24Z d4ryus quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-22T07:49:07Z ljavorsk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T07:50:24Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:50:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T07:51:25Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:52:02Z markasoftware: wow, I wish I cloned the HyperSpec to my local machine a long time ago, it's so much faster now!
2020-07-22T07:55:08Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-22T07:59:01Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-22T07:59:24Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:00:07Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T08:01:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:07:42Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:14:30Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:18:31Z DeathandGravity joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:19:55Z tumdum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2020-07-22T08:27:15Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:28:08Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T08:28:19Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:29:55Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T08:37:36Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T08:37:58Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-22T08:39:45Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:42:46Z DeathandGravity quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-07-22T08:42:51Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T08:44:04Z molluskempire joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:44:04Z molluskempire is now known as DeathandGravity
2020-07-22T08:48:36Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T08:50:09Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:50:50Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-22T08:53:23Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-22T08:54:08Z DeathandGravity quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T08:56:32Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T09:01:41Z tfb: Does anyone know a linke which currently works for the SBCL manual? (sourceforge / sbcl.org seems to be very sick)
2020-07-22T09:02:02Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T09:02:24Z tfb: ... and no sooner do I type that than it comes back
2020-07-22T09:02:41Z phoe: glad to be of help
2020-07-22T09:04:29Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:05:39Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:12:59Z joast quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T09:13:33Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:17:10Z DeathandGravity joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:17:55Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:18:42Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T09:19:07Z tumdum joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:19:07Z tumdum quit (Changing host)
2020-07-22T09:19:07Z tumdum joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:19:47Z tumdum quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-22T09:20:38Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T09:23:09Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:23:55Z DeathandGravity quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T09:29:04Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:31:16Z molluskempire joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:32:46Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:34:08Z libertyprime quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-22T09:37:55Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T09:39:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:39:25Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:39:40Z molluskempire is now known as DeathandGravity
2020-07-22T09:39:40Z DeathandGravity quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T09:39:59Z kaftejiman_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:41:05Z kaftejiman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T09:48:27Z kaftejiman_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T09:48:58Z kaftejiman_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:51:26Z kaftejiman__ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T09:54:10Z kaftejiman_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T09:54:11Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-22T09:58:34Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:00:05Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T10:01:11Z kaftejiman__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T10:01:25Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:01:38Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T10:01:39Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-22T10:03:13Z kopiyka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T10:03:33Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:03:33Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:10:53Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:13:12Z kopiyka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T10:13:32Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:17:59Z kopiyka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T10:18:12Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T10:18:25Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:19:08Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:20:39Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:20:56Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-22T10:21:31Z kopiyka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T10:21:51Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:22:39Z kopiyka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T10:22:58Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:23:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T10:24:05Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:24:22Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:26:44Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:26:53Z zig: is there a distro based on nixos ideas outside guix written in CL?
2020-07-22T10:26:56Z kopiyka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T10:27:26Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:27:55Z phoe: AFAIK nope
2020-07-22T10:28:15Z phoe: Michael Raskin has been experimenting with this for his own personal ideas but it hasn't been turned into anything official I think
2020-07-22T10:28:24Z kopiyka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T10:28:44Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:33:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T10:33:41Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:37:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T10:37:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:40:23Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T10:40:33Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:42:00Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T10:43:25Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T10:43:37Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:44:16Z phoe: Online Lisp Meeting #5 starting in 15 minutes, https://www.twitch.tv/TwitchPlaysCommonLisp
2020-07-22T10:45:49Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T10:46:24Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:46:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:50:38Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T10:51:39Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:55:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T10:56:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T10:57:22Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-22T10:59:03Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T11:00:16Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:00:39Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:00:49Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-22T11:02:23Z antaoiseach joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:02:36Z antaoiseach quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-22T11:03:06Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:03:09Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-22T11:03:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T11:04:08Z tutti joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:04:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:04:34Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:06:05Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:06:59Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T11:16:50Z Harag: phoe: it will warm the cockles of your heart to hear that I ran into a situation where there is no other "sane" alternative but to add practical restarts for an error.
2020-07-22T11:17:22Z phoe: Harag: you have scared me for dear life because I have Cookie Clicker currently open in a browser tab
2020-07-22T11:17:32Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T11:17:32Z phoe: what's the situation?
2020-07-22T11:17:46Z phoe: Harag: ...and I read "cockles" as "cookies"
2020-07-22T11:17:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:21:16Z Harag: I have live systems that ended up with "duplicate" data objects and if I just allow the user the select replace or use new then they can get the db loaded and just run a normal maintenance job to resolve the issue long term, the alternative is to write code to by pass the db and parse fix the data file out side of the normal environment
2020-07-22T11:21:43Z phoe: oh, you have an interactive debugging environment?
2020-07-22T11:22:06Z beach: Harag: Many people are currently following the online Lisp meeting, so you may find that people are less responsive than usual.
2020-07-22T11:22:52Z Harag: beach: morning, yeah I keep on missing the start of those, so will go hunting for the links afterward
2020-07-22T11:23:20Z phoe: Harag: you can also watch from the beginning, Twitch offers that option AFAIR
2020-07-22T11:23:31Z phoe: that'll give you like 20 minutes of lag
2020-07-22T11:23:57Z Harag: phoe: no its cl debugger, when you load/reload the project you have a chance to intervene
2020-07-22T11:25:02Z Harag: its ok thanx I have work to do :(
2020-07-22T11:25:17Z Harag: enjoy the meeting
2020-07-22T11:25:23Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:25:31Z Harag zips it
2020-07-22T11:25:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T11:25:58Z jmercouris: why does lisp seem to prefer octals?
2020-07-22T11:26:08Z beach: ?
2020-07-22T11:26:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:26:18Z jmercouris: many operations work on octets
2020-07-22T11:26:24Z jmercouris: base 8 operations
2020-07-22T11:26:26Z jmercouris: why?
2020-07-22T11:26:30Z phoe: what do you mean
2020-07-22T11:26:45Z jmercouris: i see everywhere in the hyper spec references to base 8
2020-07-22T11:26:46Z phoe: and do you mean octets or octals
2020-07-22T11:26:48Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:26:55Z phoe: jmercouris: everywhere, such as?
2020-07-22T11:26:57Z jmercouris: maybe i mean octets
2020-07-22T11:26:58Z seok: how can I use accessors for classes in imported packages?
2020-07-22T11:27:11Z phoe: seok: imported, what do you mean?
2020-07-22T11:27:21Z seok: like (defpackage ..
2020-07-22T11:27:28Z seok: (:use #:package
2020-07-22T11:27:38Z seok: I've got a class there which is exported
2020-07-22T11:27:41Z beach: seok: The same way you always use them (foo x) (setf (foo x) ..)
2020-07-22T11:27:42Z jmercouris: those accessors must be exported
2020-07-22T11:27:47Z phoe: does the package export the accessors?
2020-07-22T11:27:54Z jmercouris: or you can use a double colon operator
2020-07-22T11:27:55Z seok: That's what I thought, but I get undefined function
2020-07-22T11:27:59Z phoe: if not, then the maintainer of that package doesn't want you to use those accessors
2020-07-22T11:28:02Z phoe: ..oh
2020-07-22T11:28:02Z seok: oh, I need to export the accessors
2020-07-22T11:28:06Z yur3i__ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:28:07Z phoe: then they are not defined
2020-07-22T11:28:18Z seok: I'll try exporting the accessors too
2020-07-22T11:28:21Z phoe: wait a second, do you get undefined function or a package error
2020-07-22T11:28:24Z jmercouris: there are macros to do this
2020-07-22T11:28:28Z seok: undefined function
2020-07-22T11:28:29Z phoe: oh, no, wait! they aren't exported
2020-07-22T11:28:30Z jmercouris: serapeum has this
2020-07-22T11:28:32Z seok: yeah
2020-07-22T11:28:34Z phoe: so local package symbols are used instead.
2020-07-22T11:28:44Z seok: I see, silly me
2020-07-22T11:28:44Z jmercouris: you can write classes that export all accessors
2020-07-22T11:28:48Z phoe: yes, export the accessors, and resolve package conflicts that will arise via the TAKE-NEW option
2020-07-22T11:29:00Z beach: jmercouris: That's really bad advice.
2020-07-22T11:29:07Z jmercouris: I don’t think so
2020-07-22T11:29:40Z jmercouris: it is useful to make sure that things are up to date, if you don’t want to, you can always unexport an accessor or only use slot value
2020-07-22T11:29:50Z seok: if I export the accessors from this package, and export accessors for different class with same accessor names, import both of them, does this cause conflict?
2020-07-22T11:29:58Z jmercouris: yes
2020-07-22T11:30:00Z beach: *sigh*
2020-07-22T11:30:05Z phoe: depends on the packages
2020-07-22T11:30:11Z jmercouris: probably
2020-07-22T11:30:11Z gravicappa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T11:30:13Z phoe: if these are different symbols, then conflicts will happen
2020-07-22T11:30:22Z phoe: so my advice is to use PLNs instead of :USE
2020-07-22T11:30:25Z jmercouris: better to qualify with package name than to use a package
2020-07-22T11:30:29Z seok: what is pln?
2020-07-22T11:30:33Z jmercouris: I agree with phone
2020-07-22T11:30:33Z phoe: package-local nicknames
2020-07-22T11:30:37Z jmercouris: phoe *
2020-07-22T11:30:48Z phoe: (defpackage foo (:local-nicknames (#:a #:alexandria)) ...)
2020-07-22T11:30:51Z phoe: and then inside package FOO
2020-07-22T11:30:57Z phoe: (a:assoc-value ...)
2020-07-22T11:31:13Z phoe: that's (alexandria:assoc-value ...) except with shorter names
2020-07-22T11:31:18Z seok: hm ok
2020-07-22T11:31:39Z seok: this is same for methods right?
2020-07-22T11:31:45Z jmercouris: beach: would you rather explicitly export each accessor, and why?
2020-07-22T11:31:46Z phoe: wait, why
2020-07-22T11:31:56Z phoe: how do you even export methods, they don't have names
2020-07-22T11:32:03Z seok: same name methods for different classes are ok in same package, but not when imported from different packages?
2020-07-22T11:32:14Z beach: jmercouris: A package is a unit of abstraction.  You export only functions that are part of the exported protocol.
2020-07-22T11:32:31Z jmercouris: ah, I see why you think this way
2020-07-22T11:32:42Z phoe: seok: I don't understand the question about methods
2020-07-22T11:32:43Z beach: Yeah, like elementary software engineering .
2020-07-22T11:32:46Z phoe: generic functions have names
2020-07-22T11:32:48Z jmercouris: well, our use case in Nyxt is very different
2020-07-22T11:32:49Z phoe: methods don't
2020-07-22T11:33:08Z seok: wait, do methods need to be exported then?
2020-07-22T11:33:19Z beach: seok: STOP IT.
2020-07-22T11:33:19Z beach:  
2020-07-22T11:33:23Z seok: ok
2020-07-22T11:33:23Z jmercouris: and in our case, the API is everything unless explicitly stated otherwise
2020-07-22T11:33:30Z phoe: seok: no, they don't
2020-07-22T11:33:42Z phoe: do you know the difference between methods and generic functions?
2020-07-22T11:33:45Z beach: seok: Packages export SYMBOLS.
2020-07-22T11:33:57Z beach: Not generic functions, not classes, not methods.
2020-07-22T11:33:57Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:34:10Z seok: ok
2020-07-22T11:34:10Z jmercouris: simply symbols
2020-07-22T11:34:18Z seok: i thought accessors were methods?
2020-07-22T11:34:34Z phoe: they are, but they're methods on generic functions
2020-07-22T11:34:38Z phoe: and generic functions have names
2020-07-22T11:34:42Z phoe: and these names are symbols
2020-07-22T11:34:46Z phoe: and symbols are what you export.
2020-07-22T11:35:14Z seok: so how does method "exporting" work? do I only need to export the class names?
2020-07-22T11:35:25Z phoe: ...
2020-07-22T11:35:28Z seok: and methods go with them?
2020-07-22T11:35:33Z phoe: nope
2020-07-22T11:35:36Z jmercouris: we do not export methods
2020-07-22T11:35:37Z phoe: you export generic function names
2020-07-22T11:35:40Z jmercouris: only symbols
2020-07-22T11:35:42Z phoe: everything else goes with them
2020-07-22T11:35:44Z seok: ok
2020-07-22T11:36:05Z seok: so I cannot just import the methods to avoid function name conflict?
2020-07-22T11:36:12Z phoe: we
2020-07-22T11:36:14Z phoe: don't
2020-07-22T11:36:14Z jmercouris: people often missay export “X” when they mean export symbol that points to “X”
2020-07-22T11:36:15Z phoe: export
2020-07-22T11:36:17Z phoe: methods
2020-07-22T11:36:30Z phoe: c'mon, please repeat what jmercouris said a few times
2020-07-22T11:36:35Z seok: Sorry, I was finding this odd
2020-07-22T11:36:50Z seok: I get that the symbols which are associated with the methods are import/exported
2020-07-22T11:36:50Z phoe: why?
2020-07-22T11:36:54Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T11:36:55Z phoe: wait
2020-07-22T11:36:56Z seok: like you guys have explained
2020-07-22T11:37:00Z phoe: what symbols are addociated with methods
2020-07-22T11:37:10Z hsaziz joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:37:17Z seok: well (defmethod ) assigns the method to a symbol doesn't it?
2020-07-22T11:37:28Z jmercouris: not exactly no
2020-07-22T11:37:35Z beach: No, it adds a method to a generic function with that name.
2020-07-22T11:37:35Z seok: and I can export/import this symbol
2020-07-22T11:37:40Z beach: This is really elementary stuff.
2020-07-22T11:37:45Z seok: yes
2020-07-22T11:37:45Z beach: You need to read a book.
2020-07-22T11:37:58Z seok: so this generic function can handle multiple different methods
2020-07-22T11:38:03Z seok: in the same package
2020-07-22T11:38:21Z jmercouris: that’s correct
2020-07-22T11:38:25Z seok: but how do I implement this behaviour across multiple packages?
2020-07-22T11:38:28Z jmercouris: that’s not where you are having problems
2020-07-22T11:38:39Z jmercouris: the reason you are having problems is consider this
2020-07-22T11:38:43Z jmercouris: we are in package X
2020-07-22T11:38:54Z jmercouris: we import symbol potato from package Y and Z
2020-07-22T11:39:02Z jmercouris: now when I write potato, what do I mean?
2020-07-22T11:39:06Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T11:39:09Z seok: I get that import/export only does so with symbols
2020-07-22T11:39:11Z seok: I understand
2020-07-22T11:39:16Z phoe: seok: do you come from a language where methods belong to classes?
2020-07-22T11:39:21Z jmercouris: do I mean Y:potato or do I mean Z:potato
2020-07-22T11:39:22Z phoe: since that might be a point of confusion
2020-07-22T11:39:37Z phoe: because in Lisp methods belong to generic functions, not to classes
2020-07-22T11:39:58Z seok: so there is no way to implement this behaviour working for multiple packages?
2020-07-22T11:40:06Z phoe: *what* behavior do you mean
2020-07-22T11:40:24Z seok: like, you can make a method for print for your class
2020-07-22T11:40:33Z seok: and that will work in that package
2020-07-22T11:40:39Z jmercouris: OK so far
2020-07-22T11:40:45Z seok: how do you make that work when exported?
2020-07-22T11:40:49Z phoe: (defmethod print-stuff ((thing foo:bar)) ...)
2020-07-22T11:40:52Z seok: yes
2020-07-22T11:41:00Z seok: how do you take that to another package?
2020-07-22T11:41:04Z jmercouris: you export the symbol print-stuff so that others may use it
2020-07-22T11:41:10Z phoe: (my-package:print-stuff (make-instance 'foo:bar))
2020-07-22T11:41:23Z seok: but let's say you have another package C
2020-07-22T11:41:23Z beach: Wow, this is #clschool material.
2020-07-22T11:41:24Z phoe: I assume that the DEFMETHOD happened in package MY-PACKAGE
2020-07-22T11:41:32Z seok: and another class
2020-07-22T11:41:39Z seok: which you have method for printing
2020-07-22T11:41:46Z phoe: method on which generic function
2020-07-22T11:42:02Z _death: seok: packages contain symbols; generic functions have names, which may be symbols; generic functions contain methods; to add to or redefine a method in a generic function, you supply the generic function's name to DEFMETHOD.. the only point where packages are relevant is in this specification of the name
2020-07-22T11:42:05Z beach: seok: Methods are not in a particular package.  Neither are generic functions.
2020-07-22T11:42:33Z beach: seok: Packages contain symbols.  You use the same symbol naming a generic function, you get the same generic function, no matter what package you are in.
2020-07-22T11:42:43Z seok: yes I get all that
2020-07-22T11:42:50Z jmercouris: I’m not sure you do
2020-07-22T11:42:51Z seok: I think you are confused of what I am asking
2020-07-22T11:42:56Z phoe: yes, I am
2020-07-22T11:43:03Z jmercouris: then write very coherently what you are asking
2020-07-22T11:43:06Z phoe: "which you have method for printing" - which generic function is the method defined on?
2020-07-22T11:43:11Z seok: I am not confused about the mechanics, but confused how x is implemented
2020-07-22T11:43:51Z seok: say a solution
2020-07-22T11:44:02Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T11:44:12Z phoe: a solution for which problem? I don't understand the problem that you're facing just yet
2020-07-22T11:44:40Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:44:49Z phoe: do you have one GF or multiple GFs
2020-07-22T11:45:26Z seok: here let's say
2020-07-22T11:45:32Z jmercouris: what is GF?
2020-07-22T11:45:38Z seok: gf is girlfriend
2020-07-22T11:45:40Z seok: : )
2020-07-22T11:45:42Z jmercouris: generic function?
2020-07-22T11:46:01Z seok: hear me out, let's say I am writing a program for geometry
2020-07-22T11:46:07Z seok: I have a package for 2d shapes
2020-07-22T11:46:12Z seok: another package for 3d shapes
2020-07-22T11:46:33Z seok: in 2d shape there is a class, rectangle
2020-07-22T11:46:36Z seok: with accessor edge
2020-07-22T11:46:50Z seok: in 3d shape a class for cube
2020-07-22T11:46:57Z seok: with same accessor edge
2020-07-22T11:46:59Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:47:10Z seok: so If I want to import both of these classes with the accessors intact
2020-07-22T11:47:10Z ldb: good evening
2020-07-22T11:47:13Z seok: how do I do this?
2020-07-22T11:47:15Z seok: hello!
2020-07-22T11:47:37Z phoe: define a package that exports the symbol EDGE, import this symbol into both 2d and 3d, use it as accessor name
2020-07-22T11:47:37Z jdz: seok: You say "same accessor", but how are they the same?
2020-07-22T11:47:40Z _death: seok: there is no such thing as importing classes
2020-07-22T11:48:01Z _death: seok: you only import names.. so you can import the name RECTANGLE and you can import the name CUBE and you can import the name EDGE
2020-07-22T11:48:02Z phoe: also, what _death said and which you seem to *not* have learned yet
2020-07-22T11:48:03Z phoe afk
2020-07-22T11:48:15Z seok: yes you might be correct in that saying my technicals are incorrect
2020-07-22T11:48:23Z seok: but do you get the gist of what I am trying to do?
2020-07-22T11:48:35Z phoe: yes, and a part of this because you're trying to do things that don't exist in CL
2020-07-22T11:48:51Z phoe: if you knew that all you need to import/export are symbols, this would be less of a problem
2020-07-22T11:49:14Z phoe: fixing your technicals will greatly help fix the issue you face now
2020-07-22T11:49:26Z jdz: seok: Think about it this way: you create a third package, called shapes, that exports a symbol EDGE, and use that symbol in both 2d and 3d packages.
2020-07-22T11:49:40Z seok: right now I get it
2020-07-22T11:49:45Z seok: that's the solution
2020-07-22T11:49:49Z _death: seok: the gist is that you need to take a break and think things through
2020-07-22T11:49:49Z seok: I wanted to know this
2020-07-22T11:49:53Z seok: thank you phoe jdz
2020-07-22T11:49:53Z jdz: No, that's not _the_ solution.
2020-07-22T11:49:59Z jdz: That's "a" solution.
2020-07-22T11:50:08Z jdz: To get your misconceptions straight.
2020-07-22T11:50:32Z ghard: Better try to understand the fundamental differences between CLOS, and , say JAVA object system
2020-07-22T11:50:49Z jdz: Bettor not to think about Java or any other system.
2020-07-22T11:50:53Z jdz: Better even.
2020-07-22T11:51:01Z seok: look, ghard, you say I need to learn such differences
2020-07-22T11:51:13Z seok: I don't even program in java, and I know these differences
2020-07-22T11:51:22Z seok: but I just didn't know how this would be implemented
2020-07-22T11:51:25Z jmercouris: OK
2020-07-22T11:51:31Z ghard: fine
2020-07-22T11:51:39Z jmercouris: it’s fine, we are all learning all the time
2020-07-22T11:51:50Z jmercouris: I’m still very much a noob myself, there is no shame in it
2020-07-22T11:51:51Z jdz: seok: Try an exercise: implement the accessors without putting them into the class definiton.
2020-07-22T11:51:59Z ldb: you could use symbols from #:keyword package
2020-07-22T11:52:12Z seok: yeah, that didn't cross my mind
2020-07-22T11:52:17Z jmercouris: that is a bad suggestion
2020-07-22T11:52:21Z seok: to have another package to initiate the symbols first
2020-07-22T11:52:27Z jmercouris: that would be abuse of the keyword package
2020-07-22T11:52:28Z jdz: seok: Next step: put the same accessors in a different package.
2020-07-22T11:52:29Z seok: is there a better way?
2020-07-22T11:52:49Z jdz: seok: You do not _need_ another package.
2020-07-22T11:53:05Z jdz: seok: You have to be aware of which package which symbols come from.
2020-07-22T11:53:37Z jdz: seok: Just try the two exercise things I mentioned.
2020-07-22T11:55:41Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:57:04Z ldb: it's that, if at the beginning 2d and 3d are not using the same symbol for accessor, the result is there are two different generic functions, instead of the same
2020-07-22T11:59:33Z hhdave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T11:59:42Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T11:59:45Z seok: yeah
2020-07-22T11:59:48Z seok: that's the problem
2020-07-22T12:00:08Z seok: and I was wondering if I am stuck with it, or if there was a way around it
2020-07-22T12:00:08Z hsaziz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T12:00:11Z jmercouris: no, that’s not the problem
2020-07-22T12:00:18Z seok: what's the problem?
2020-07-22T12:00:26Z jmercouris: forget about it for now
2020-07-22T12:00:27Z ldb: CL package cannot do the same like ML functor, linking between different packages
2020-07-22T12:00:31Z jmercouris: do the exercises suggested
2020-07-22T12:01:04Z jmercouris: you’ll profit greatly
2020-07-22T12:01:24Z ldb: it is a limitation due to design, so try get used to it
2020-07-22T12:01:29Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T12:01:36Z seok: what is ML?
2020-07-22T12:01:44Z seok: ML means machine learning to me
2020-07-22T12:01:45Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:02:11Z ldb: MetaLangauge, a family of lisp inspired language including SML and OCaml
2020-07-22T12:02:58Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T12:03:18Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:03:29Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:03:37Z jdz: seok: Another exercise suggestion: use structs instead of classes (so you'll have 2d-edge and 3d-edge functions), and then write the EDGE function that would use TYPECASE to choose the right function to call.  Then decide, where you want to put that function.
2020-07-22T12:03:49Z seok: yeah
2020-07-22T12:04:18Z seok: It's rare to find lisp design limitations, I encountered 2 so far (much more in other languges) and both seem to be related to CLOS
2020-07-22T12:04:37Z jdz: You only think you've found something.
2020-07-22T12:04:51Z jdz: If two packages have something in common, they must have something in common, right?
2020-07-22T12:04:52Z jesse1010 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T12:05:22Z hsaziz joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:05:23Z jdz: If you want a generic function be common to two packages, it has to be common, right?
2020-07-22T12:05:28Z seok: sometimes no, because a word can have 2 meanings
2020-07-22T12:05:31Z jmercouris: it is an explicit and very logical decision
2020-07-22T12:06:00Z jdz: seok: So if it has two meanings, keep the packages separate.  If it has one meaning, use the same symbol.
2020-07-22T12:06:01Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:07:39Z jdz: It's all about symbols, not classes or methods.
2020-07-22T12:08:09Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T12:08:12Z jdz: Also about protocols.
2020-07-22T12:08:19Z _death: there's no limitation.. packages are namespaces, not module systems.. and "accessor" is not a concrete thing, it is merely a pair of functions with a hint about their role, which is associating one object with another.. the set of accessors for a given object is not bounded
2020-07-22T12:08:19Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:08:38Z phoe: so far you successfully found a limitation in your understanding of Common Lisp that you then blame on the language itself
2020-07-22T12:08:54Z ghard: ANd understanding what a generic function is and how the *dispatch* happens is one of the fundamental differences between object systems.
2020-07-22T12:09:08Z phoe: seok: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1964#1964
2020-07-22T12:12:26Z seok: @phoe nice, what about the case where 2 classes are not sharing a parent?
2020-07-22T12:13:07Z ldb: limitation of expressiveness: accessor is not a syntactic entity, thus cannot be disambiguate from context
2020-07-22T12:13:37Z jdz: seok: That's not a problem.  The question is which function (method) you want to call on instances.  Is that the same function, or different functions.
2020-07-22T12:13:41Z phoe: seok: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1965#1965
2020-07-22T12:13:51Z shka_: ldb: it kinda is
2020-07-22T12:14:14Z phoe: an accessor is just a function
2020-07-22T12:14:28Z shka_: i mean: (defun (setf accessor) (new-value object)… is very much the thing with it's syntax
2020-07-22T12:15:10Z shka_: unless you insists that you want to have direct information about the slot
2020-07-22T12:15:21Z shka_: in which case, there is also slot-value
2020-07-22T12:15:40Z shka_: but i fail to see this limitation you are talking about
2020-07-22T12:17:05Z jdz: seok: Another exercise: imagine I've created a library that also has a shape.  And it has an accessor method, but you don't access to the source code.  How do you invoke the proper EDGE (or PRINT) function for my class?
2020-07-22T12:18:56Z ldb: (defmethod edge ((o exterlib:shape)) (exterlib:edge o))
2020-07-22T12:18:59Z _death: ldb: if you want to simulate a message passing object system in CLOS, it's easy..
2020-07-22T12:20:06Z ldb: _death: yeah, or use flavor package to emulate what they had on lisp machine
2020-07-22T12:20:35Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T12:21:03Z seok: phoe how do you run this (defgeneric print-shape (shape)
2020-07-22T12:21:07Z _death: ldb: indeed, I got COPYCAT to run (at least the parts I tried) with 50 lines of code implementing flavors like operators
2020-07-22T12:21:09Z seok: when there is no class shape?
2020-07-22T12:21:16Z jdz: seok: Another exercise: first write your classes and methods in the same package, and then split the code up into packages while preserving the semantics.
2020-07-22T12:21:38Z phoe: seok: normally
2020-07-22T12:21:39Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T12:21:41Z phoe: this code works
2020-07-22T12:21:44Z jdz: seok: It's the same as writing (defgeneric print-shape (foo) ...)
2020-07-22T12:22:01Z phoe: SHAPE is just a lexical variable in there
2020-07-22T12:22:21Z seok: hm, why doesn't it work on my sbcl?
2020-07-22T12:22:24Z jdz: It's actually just a name of a parameter?
2020-07-22T12:22:25Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-22T12:22:27Z phoe: one second...
2020-07-22T12:22:31Z seok: I get there is no class named shapes::shape
2020-07-22T12:22:49Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:22:50Z jdz: seok: Are you using DEFGENERIC or DEFMETHOD?
2020-07-22T12:22:54Z phoe: aaaa, one second
2020-07-22T12:22:56Z phoe: I screwed up
2020-07-22T12:23:05Z seok: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1964#1964 jdz
2020-07-22T12:23:28Z seok: phoe nw
2020-07-22T12:23:39Z phoe: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1965#1965
2020-07-22T12:23:44Z phoe: I removed too much because I was hasty
2020-07-22T12:23:46Z phoe: now it should work
2020-07-22T12:23:56Z seok: yeah
2020-07-22T12:24:06Z seok: was trying to understand it xD
2020-07-22T12:24:09Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:24:14Z seok: that's better
2020-07-22T12:24:30Z ukari quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-22T12:26:25Z seok: yes this works
2020-07-22T12:26:41Z phoe: perfect
2020-07-22T12:26:42Z seok: so like we've said the solution is to make a 3rd package to initiate the method?
2020-07-22T12:26:47Z phoe: ...
2020-07-22T12:26:52Z phoe: no
2020-07-22T12:26:54Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:26:58Z phoe: to export the symbol that names the generic function
2020-07-22T12:27:08Z seok: right
2020-07-22T12:27:14Z phoe: this would work even if SHAPES did not define any method
2020-07-22T12:27:24Z phoe: (and it defines one, with the DEFGENERIC :METHOD; it's not used in this example)
2020-07-22T12:27:39Z phoe: the client packages, 2D-SHAPES and 3D-SHAPES, then define methods on that generic function
2020-07-22T12:27:45Z ldb: or ensure-generic-function
2020-07-22T12:28:05Z seok: you guys are right I do need to look up generic function
2020-07-22T12:28:06Z phoe: ldb: I don't want to dive into MOP right now, seok is still grokking the basics
2020-07-22T12:28:11Z phoe: yes
2020-07-22T12:28:13Z seok: I thought methods and generics were the same
2020-07-22T12:28:19Z phoe: no, they very much aren't
2020-07-22T12:28:39Z phoe: a method is basically a plugin for a generic function
2020-07-22T12:28:46Z seok: phoe your way doesn't need to "export" methods, but they are still recognised
2020-07-22T12:28:59Z phoe: yes
2020-07-22T12:29:02Z zig left #lisp
2020-07-22T12:29:05Z phoe: because they are plugged into the generic function object
2020-07-22T12:29:24Z phoe: there's no exporting symbols needed because there are no symbols here
2020-07-22T12:29:34Z phoe: the GF and its methods are already connected when they're defined.
2020-07-22T12:29:49Z shka_: you are exporting names, essentially
2020-07-22T12:30:10Z shka_: same name, same export
2020-07-22T12:30:45Z hsaziz quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T12:31:10Z shka_: packages in lisp are essentially just a namespaces
2020-07-22T12:31:31Z phoe: not really namespaces of their own either
2020-07-22T12:31:32Z asedeno_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:31:33Z seok: generics don't exist in other languages do they?
2020-07-22T12:31:44Z shka_: they do
2020-07-22T12:31:45Z phoe: seok: "generics" is a dangerous word
2020-07-22T12:31:58Z seok: shka_ what would be an example?
2020-07-22T12:32:02Z phoe: Java has generics that work nothing like Lisp generic functions
2020-07-22T12:32:05Z shka_: R lang has generic functions akin to the Lisp
2020-07-22T12:32:11Z shka_: but just a single dispatch
2020-07-22T12:32:20Z phoe: even though the word is similar
2020-07-22T12:32:24Z seok: I didn't dig R too much, just scratched it
2020-07-22T12:32:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T12:32:26Z jdz: So does Julia (but that's direct influence from CL, AFAIK).
2020-07-22T12:32:30Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:32:57Z shka_: clojure has multimethods clearly inspired by CL
2020-07-22T12:33:01Z ldb: the first "generic function" is from CLU, since 1980's
2020-07-22T12:33:12Z seok: clojure doesn't have cl-style generics?
2020-07-22T12:33:38Z shka_: seok: eh, not directly the same, but very similar
2020-07-22T12:34:01Z seok: Still looking into it. Generic functions look like a big feature to me
2020-07-22T12:34:11Z seok: Wondering why it didn't get implemented in a lot of modern languages
2020-07-22T12:34:12Z shka_: they kinda are
2020-07-22T12:34:37Z ldb: it's a kind of polymorphism: many modern languages supports polymorphism, in different forms
2020-07-22T12:35:23Z shka_: seok: i think that simply momentum was in favor of C++/java brand of OO
2020-07-22T12:35:40Z seok: shame
2020-07-22T12:35:49Z shka_: agreed
2020-07-22T12:36:10Z seok: well, apparantly C was more performant than lisp during the boom
2020-07-22T12:36:32Z ghard: Program, or programmer performance ? :)
2020-07-22T12:36:38Z shka_: heh
2020-07-22T12:36:44Z seok: Idk : D
2020-07-22T12:36:50Z shka_: C is easier to optimize
2020-07-22T12:37:03Z seok: postgres wasn't sure whether it was their poor lisp coding or the language, but lisp wasn't fast enough for them
2020-07-22T12:37:05Z ldb: and C is easier to implement
2020-07-22T12:37:25Z shka_: anyway, I really like CLOS
2020-07-22T12:37:31Z shka_: i think it is an awesome system
2020-07-22T12:37:39Z shka_: and practical too
2020-07-22T12:37:44Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:38:11Z ghard: This reminds me of a guy we had in a job interview back in late 90s - from Amiga demo scene. Asked about objects, he said, It's like structs with function pointers right?
2020-07-22T12:38:16Z seok: yeah, other OOs are not general enough to my liking
2020-07-22T12:38:17Z ghard: He got the job
2020-07-22T12:38:29Z ghard: But I digress...
2020-07-22T12:38:42Z ldb: very flexiable and expressive, suitable for mathematical use
2020-07-22T12:38:44Z bhartrihari quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-22T12:38:44Z Balooga quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-22T12:38:44Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-22T12:38:45Z even4void[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-22T12:38:45Z bytesighs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-22T12:38:45Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-22T12:38:45Z SomeB quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-22T12:38:45Z housel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-22T12:38:47Z asedeno_ is now known as asedeno
2020-07-22T12:38:56Z phoe: the videos from OLM#5 are now live
2020-07-22T12:39:06Z phoe: https://youtu.be/KaUkiLVSObw - Creating a Common Lisp implementation (Part 2)
2020-07-22T12:39:12Z phoe: https://youtu.be/hl0ANwOezw0 - Guix Past
2020-07-22T12:39:18Z phoe: thank you for flying phoe airlines
2020-07-22T12:39:29Z ldb: wut
2020-07-22T12:39:34Z ghard: thanks phoe!
2020-07-22T12:40:30Z kelamir[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T12:40:32Z katco quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T12:40:33Z userself quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T12:40:35Z Gnuxie[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T12:40:36Z camlriot42 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T12:40:38Z kinope quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T12:40:38Z liamz[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T12:40:39Z MrtnDk[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T12:40:39Z cairn quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T12:40:43Z fountainpen[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T12:40:43Z sammich quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T12:40:47Z unl0ckd quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T12:40:47Z infra_red[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T12:41:08Z shka_: fly safe, fly phoe?
2020-07-22T12:41:35Z ldb matrix down
2020-07-22T12:41:59Z shka_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zH_352t8tQ
2020-07-22T12:42:16Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T12:42:33Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:42:33Z Balooga joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:42:33Z bytesighs joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:42:33Z copec joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:42:33Z SomeB joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:42:33Z housel joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:42:42Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T12:43:02Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:43:17Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:44:02Z yur3i__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T12:46:28Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T12:47:19Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T12:48:29Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:48:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:49:36Z MrtnDk[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:50:45Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T12:51:26Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:51:55Z RedMallet is now known as treflip
2020-07-22T12:56:17Z igemnace quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-22T12:56:52Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-22T12:57:36Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T12:57:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:01:28Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T13:01:42Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:01:53Z ldb quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-22T13:02:08Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T13:02:09Z q-u-a-n2 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:02:15Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:02:29Z q-u-a-n23 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T13:03:51Z younder quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T13:03:52Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-22T13:04:24Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:04:40Z treflip quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-22T13:08:08Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:09:33Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:09:57Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-22T13:10:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:13:40Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-22T13:16:07Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T13:20:03Z userself joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:03Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:03Z deselby joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:03Z even4void[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:03Z unl0ckd joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:04Z kelamir[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:04Z camlriot42 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:04Z infra_red[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:04Z Gnuxie[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:04Z katco joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:04Z sammich joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:04Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:08Z tutti quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T13:20:09Z liamz[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:20:11Z fountainpen[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:21:17Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T13:26:27Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T13:27:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:27:47Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:30:57Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T13:32:13Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:37:20Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T13:39:14Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T13:49:25Z bsd4me quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T13:50:56Z ghard quit (Quit: plugh)
2020-07-22T13:53:22Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:00:35Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2020-07-22T14:02:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-22T14:02:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:04:29Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T14:05:51Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:06:35Z Krystof quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T14:06:40Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T14:06:55Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:11:45Z ghard joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:14:48Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:18:05Z ioa has reconnected with her bouncer
2020-07-22T14:18:31Z phoe: heyyy
2020-07-22T14:18:32Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T14:18:57Z beach: Hello ioa.
2020-07-22T14:18:58Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:19:03Z beach: Welcome back.
2020-07-22T14:19:05Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:19:06Z ioa: thank you!
2020-07-22T14:19:51Z ioa: I have to go again now but now I'll get to be actually here more often to see everything again (old backlock lost)
2020-07-22T14:20:05Z ioa: *and to see
2020-07-22T14:20:06Z phoe: ioa: the logs are available in the channel topic
2020-07-22T14:20:24Z beach: ioa: Take care.  See you.
2020-07-22T14:21:40Z ioa: see you later! Thanks again beach for the talk today.
2020-07-22T14:21:48Z beach: Pleasure.
2020-07-22T14:27:23Z gravicappa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T14:31:07Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:32:19Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:34:00Z thetabit joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:35:53Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T14:35:57Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T14:38:37Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-22T14:40:36Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:44:23Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:47:35Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T14:47:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T14:47:50Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:48:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:52:51Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T14:52:57Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:52:59Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-22T14:54:14Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T14:54:28Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T15:02:28Z thetabit: I am trying to use with-open-file stream variable within a label that is declared beneath (with-open-file (stream ....) (labels ((fn (x) (princ x stream))))) but I get an error with the stream variable being referenced in the fn label, I assumed that a closure would be created, but I must not sufficiently understand yet lol.
2020-07-22T15:02:58Z phoe: thetabit: what sort of error?
2020-07-22T15:03:23Z phoe: if you try to use that function outside the dynamic scope of WITH-OPEN-FILE then the file will be closed
2020-07-22T15:04:05Z thetabit: LABELS DROP-THRU-TAG error, I'm using SBCL
2020-07-22T15:04:24Z phoe: thetabit: could you paste the full code snippet?
2020-07-22T15:05:10Z thetabit: sure, what site do you use for formatting here?
2020-07-22T15:05:25Z phoe: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/
2020-07-22T15:05:31Z thetabit: cool, one sec
2020-07-22T15:06:13Z bitmappe_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T15:07:03Z thetabit: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1966#1966
2020-07-22T15:07:19Z phoe: that's misformatted
2020-07-22T15:07:25Z phoe: oh, because of tabs instead of spaces
2020-07-22T15:07:55Z bitmappe_ is now known as bitmapper
2020-07-22T15:08:13Z phoe: are you sure this issue is because of WITH-OPEN-FILE? could you macroexpand all that stuff?
2020-07-22T15:09:09Z thetabit: I am not sure lol, let me try macroexpand
2020-07-22T15:09:21Z _death: looks like you're supplying 2 arguments to a function that takes one
2020-07-22T15:09:50Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T15:10:14Z thetabit: Yep, I need to set the c-lang label with &rest
2020-07-22T15:10:49Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-22T15:10:59Z thetabit: lol, thanks
2020-07-22T15:11:41Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-22T15:12:57Z grewal quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-22T15:13:14Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-22T15:15:07Z thetabit: Alright, that worked, ha, still so much to understand and be mindful of.
2020-07-22T15:19:14Z _death: especially error messages.. the full message is "(LABELS C-LANG :IN #:DROP-THRU-TAG-2) called with invalid number of arguments: 2" granted the drop-thru-tag gensym is not so helpful
2020-07-22T15:20:56Z _death: and there is a more helpful warning signaled before the form is evaluated
2020-07-22T15:21:43Z madage quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T15:22:53Z thetabit: I see that warning now, function called with two arguments, but wants exactly one, ha, that's pretty clear ;)
2020-07-22T15:28:52Z Misha_B quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-22T15:32:59Z narimiran_ is now known as narimiran
2020-07-22T15:33:48Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-22T15:40:07Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T15:42:03Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-22T15:44:12Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-22T15:57:33Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T15:57:41Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T15:58:17Z jw4 quit (Quit: tot siens)
2020-07-22T16:00:11Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T16:15:01Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T16:27:56Z thetabit quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-22T16:43:57Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T16:45:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T16:45:58Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T16:46:12Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T16:49:19Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-22T16:50:13Z shukryzablah joined #lisp
2020-07-22T16:50:15Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T16:50:19Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T16:52:59Z diamondbond quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-22T16:54:13Z random-nickname joined #lisp
2020-07-22T16:56:43Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T16:57:28Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-22T16:57:54Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T17:04:01Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:04:47Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T17:05:02Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:05:57Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T17:07:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:09:46Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:15:37Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T17:16:02Z thetabit joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:16:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:20:18Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:23:04Z PuercoPop: Is it correct to assume that the &whole parameter in a macro is bound to a cons cell or can implementation dependent representations like SBCL's quasiquote appear there?
2020-07-22T17:23:42Z PuercoPop: I'm trying to do something like (defmacro foo (&whole form) `,@(cdr form))
2020-07-22T17:24:40Z random-nick_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:26:59Z Bike: it should be the form, which is a cons
2020-07-22T17:27:20Z Bike: that won't work because `,@ isn't valid
2020-07-22T17:27:37Z treflip joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:28:14Z random-nickname quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T17:28:25Z PuercoPop: Bike: the ` happens earlier. I've been using `(if x y ',@(cdr foo))
2020-07-22T17:28:37Z gabiruh quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-22T17:28:56Z gabiruh joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:30:22Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-22T17:30:24Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:31:34Z Misha_B joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:31:56Z Bike: i see
2020-07-22T17:32:09Z Bike: in that particular case you could just do &rest of course, but maybe you're doing something more involved.
2020-07-22T17:34:17Z treflip quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-22T17:39:21Z PuercoPop: Bike: &rest would work afaict. I'm cargo-culting a little bit in this case. Several test frameworks use &whole to report the form in which the failure occurred.
2020-07-22T17:39:57Z Bike: you should be able to rely on it being a cons, anyway. subforms might be other weird things, though.
2020-07-22T17:40:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T17:40:33Z phoe: the CDR should be a list
2020-07-22T17:41:01Z phoe: if the macro is called like (FOO . ARGS) then the CDR will be just ARGS
2020-07-22T17:41:07Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:41:24Z phoe: so null in case of a trivial/empty macro or a cons if at least one arg was supplied
2020-07-22T17:42:55Z shukryzablah: I use a relative pathname in one of my files inside my src
2020-07-22T17:42:55Z shukryzablah:                folder. It works fine. However, when I run it with roswell, the
2020-07-22T17:42:55Z shukryzablah:                relative pathname doesn't refer to what I want, since it is not
2020-07-22T17:42:55Z shukryzablah:                relative to my src folder. What can I do?
2020-07-22T17:43:03Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T17:43:19Z phoe: clhs *default-pathname-defaults*
2020-07-22T17:43:19Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_defaul.htm
2020-07-22T17:43:51Z phoe: you likely want to explicitly rebind this variable instead of using the implementation-provided defaults that may or may not be based on the unix CWD
2020-07-22T17:45:16Z arpunk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T17:45:48Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T17:49:50Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T17:52:35Z random-nick_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T17:53:53Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T17:53:58Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:54:55Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:55:11Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-22T17:57:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T17:57:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:04:11Z PuercoPop: shukryzablah: you can also use asdf:system-relative-pathname to refer to files in relation to the location of the .asd file.
2020-07-22T18:04:48Z phoe: ^
2020-07-22T18:05:57Z thetabit quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T18:08:28Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:08:58Z shka_: i recommend PuercoPop solution
2020-07-22T18:09:59Z lucasb joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:15:44Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:21:28Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:22:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T18:24:16Z shukryzablah: I went the asdf way, thanks to all
2020-07-22T18:24:34Z phoe: <3
2020-07-22T18:24:38Z phoe: that is the good way
2020-07-22T18:24:58Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T18:28:25Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:30:47Z bsd4me quit (Read error: No route to host)
2020-07-22T18:31:32Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T18:31:40Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:33:00Z epony quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T18:37:05Z grewal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T18:37:13Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:38:16Z abhixec joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:40:53Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T18:41:16Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:43:50Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T18:44:07Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:49:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T18:50:40Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:57:08Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-22T18:57:08Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-22T18:57:09Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:06:50Z grewal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T19:08:02Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:08:42Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:10:53Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T19:11:16Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:11:23Z cantstanya quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T19:14:47Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:21:10Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T19:21:47Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:22:35Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T19:23:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:23:19Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:23:46Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T19:24:56Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:28:20Z phoe: PuercoPop: note that the CDR will always be a list, never a quasiquote thing
2020-07-22T19:28:52Z phoe: like, with (defmacro foo (&whole form) `',@(cdr form)) the CDR may be a single-element list, (`',@(cdr form))
2020-07-22T19:30:25Z stux|RC quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T19:31:03Z PuercoPop: phoe: Thanks. So the question is under what conditions is the implementation allowed to 'leak' their quasiquote implementation. I should probably re-read crhodes posts about it
2020-07-22T19:31:37Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:31:51Z Bike: well the form being macroexpanded is never going to be a quasiquote thing.
2020-07-22T19:32:21Z Bike: it's a proper list, even, unless you're doing something really weird.
2020-07-22T19:32:51Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T19:33:04Z phoe: Bike: the question is whether '`',x is going to contain quasiquotes after being read
2020-07-22T19:33:11Z phoe: and AFAIK it is allowed to
2020-07-22T19:33:24Z phoe: therefore the &whole argument is allowed to contain quasiquotes, too
2020-07-22T19:33:35Z Bike: yeah, the subforms can be whatever.
2020-07-22T19:33:41Z h4ck3r9696 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:34:18Z phoe: CL-USER> (defmacro foo (&whole whole &rest stuff) (declare (ignore stuff)) `',whole) (foo `(bar ,baz))
2020-07-22T19:34:21Z phoe: (FOO `(BAR ,BAZ))
2020-07-22T19:34:23Z Bike: it's still evaluable. i think sbcl does something like (quasiquote #<some structure>)
2020-07-22T19:34:56Z Bike: yeah `(a ,b c) is (sb-int:quasiquote (a #s(...) c)
2020-07-22T19:35:21Z Bike: and quasiquote is just a normal macro so it expands into a list* call.
2020-07-22T19:36:10Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T19:36:12Z Bike: maybe you could get a comma thing as a form? dunno. you probably shouldn't try to pick apart forms anyway
2020-07-22T19:36:26Z oldtopman quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-22T19:36:28Z lansiir joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:36:41Z Bike: yeah no that can't happen.
2020-07-22T19:37:45Z phoe: raw quasiquote forms should never be taken apart by means of car/cdr/etc because their contents are implementation-dependent
2020-07-22T19:37:56Z phoe: they don't even need to be lists
2020-07-22T19:38:19Z phoe: only after being evaluated they are guaranteed to be lists or what else
2020-07-22T19:38:28Z phoe: or vectors in case of `#(...)`
2020-07-22T19:38:47Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T19:39:28Z h4ck3r9696 left #lisp
2020-07-22T19:40:04Z PuercoPop: But if I don't want to manipulate them, only print them I should be in the clear afaik. The reason for the implementation dependent quasiquote was to pretty print correctly iirc
2020-07-22T19:40:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:40:45Z phoe: ooh
2020-07-22T19:41:00Z phoe: well then, some implementations have read-time quasiquote
2020-07-22T19:41:06Z phoe: so you aren't going to have that consistent
2020-07-22T19:41:35Z phoe: e.g. CCL
2020-07-22T19:42:26Z phoe: you need to use fare-quasiquote or something to be able to have this stuff consistent, and then define some sorta print dispatch to have that printed properly
2020-07-22T19:42:33Z PuercoPop: That's acceptable. If one wants consistency they can bring their own quasiquote implementation for this cases. ej. fare-quasiquote
2020-07-22T19:42:39Z phoe: ha
2020-07-22T19:42:47Z phoe: well then, that's going to work
2020-07-22T19:45:53Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:47:17Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T19:48:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:51:37Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:54:49Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-22T19:57:20Z vaporatorius__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T19:59:11Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-22T19:59:11Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-22T19:59:11Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:01:25Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:01:48Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T20:02:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-22T20:02:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:03:11Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:04:01Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-22T20:04:06Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T20:05:32Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:06:20Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:06:20Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-22T20:06:20Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:07:20Z Alfr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:14:30Z arpunk joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:18:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-22T20:18:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:20:50Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:21:25Z seok: Is there a quick way to make an instance of a class from an instance of its superclass?
2020-07-22T20:21:36Z seok: keeping matching slots?
2020-07-22T20:21:46Z phoe: what do you mean, an instance of its superclass
2020-07-22T20:21:53Z seok: (defclass a () ..)
2020-07-22T20:21:55Z phoe: (defclass foo () ()) (defclass bar (foo) ())?
2020-07-22T20:21:59Z seok: (defclass b (a))
2020-07-22T20:22:02Z seok: yeah
2020-07-22T20:22:10Z Bike: You mean make a new instance of a subclass where all shared slot values are initialized from a prototype from a superclass?
2020-07-22T20:22:15Z seok: and make an instance of bar from an instance of foo
2020-07-22T20:22:21Z Bike: There's nothing built in.
2020-07-22T20:22:24Z phoe: I kinda wonder why
2020-07-22T20:22:25Z seok: ok
2020-07-22T20:22:28Z phoe: you'd need to use the MOP
2020-07-22T20:22:29Z seok: just checking
2020-07-22T20:22:45Z seok: just lazy filling out all the slots, nw
2020-07-22T20:22:47Z seok: ty
2020-07-22T20:23:13Z phoe: you could make a dumb shallow copy of the instance and use CHANGE-CLASS
2020-07-22T20:23:21Z phoe: but I'm going to hell for recommending it that way
2020-07-22T20:23:29Z phoe: best to write an explicit copier function I guess
2020-07-22T20:23:37Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T20:23:38Z Bike: i figured the prototype is supposed to stay untrashed.
2020-07-22T20:23:42Z abhixec quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-22T20:23:56Z phoe: I figure the same, it shouldn't be mutated
2020-07-22T20:24:13Z phoe: I mean, make a shallow copy of FOO and then change-class it into a BAR
2020-07-22T20:24:20Z phoe: that will mutate the copy
2020-07-22T20:24:33Z seok: wait
2020-07-22T20:24:37Z seok: (change-class works)
2020-07-22T20:24:48Z seok: so it is built in?
2020-07-22T20:24:51Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:24:57Z phoe: change-class is built in
2020-07-22T20:25:01Z phoe: copying isn't
2020-07-22T20:25:04Z phoe: minion: tell seok about copying
2020-07-22T20:25:04Z minion: seok: direct your attention towards copying: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html
2020-07-22T20:25:09Z abhixec joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:25:30Z seok: ah it mutates the original instance
2020-07-22T20:25:46Z seok: I thought built-ins were suppose to be non-destructive
2020-07-22T20:25:50Z phoe: no, why
2020-07-22T20:26:00Z phoe: can you imagine a non-destructive RPLACA
2020-07-22T20:26:01Z Bike: change-clsas is explicitly destructive.
2020-07-22T20:26:07Z seok: you will smash me for telling you my reason tho
2020-07-22T20:26:09Z phoe: or INITIALIZE-INSTANCE
2020-07-22T20:27:58Z seok: hm so changing class is easy, but copying the instance is not?
2020-07-22T20:28:16Z phoe: changing the class of an instance is a well-defined operation
2020-07-22T20:28:19Z phoe: copying is not
2020-07-22T20:29:00Z seok: what's a good way to copy this instance? is there one?
2020-07-22T20:29:46Z phoe: if all you want is copying slot values, https://github.com/phoe/phoe-toolbox/blob/master/phoe-toolbox.lisp#L631-L642 should be enough
2020-07-22T20:30:02Z phoe: but that's only if that's what you want to do
2020-07-22T20:30:16Z seok: what else would you want to copy?
2020-07-22T20:30:37Z Alfr_: seok, depends on the equivalence relation your program wants from those objects.
2020-07-22T20:30:42Z phoe: if the copy should not be a shallow one, you might want to e.g. copy lists and/or trees and/or conses
2020-07-22T20:31:03Z phoe: that's why it's said that "copying" is not a well-defined term
2020-07-22T20:31:43Z seok: right, you mean the cases where the values in those slots are not necessarily the same objects?
2020-07-22T20:31:56Z phoe: when they are supposed to be fresh in the copy
2020-07-22T20:32:00Z phoe: so that they are free to be mutated
2020-07-22T20:32:18Z phoe: and then also it depends on which parts of these objects' structure also need to be fresh and which can be shared
2020-07-22T20:32:18Z seok: I see Alfr_ phoe
2020-07-22T20:32:18Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-22T20:32:31Z seok: so that's application specific
2020-07-22T20:32:39Z seok: and need to be written every time
2020-07-22T20:32:43Z phoe: it's object-specific
2020-07-22T20:33:02Z phoe: also a single object can have several different means of being copied
2020-07-22T20:33:31Z phoe: shallow, semi-shallow, deep, even deeper, dunno what else - depends on what and how should be fresh and what and how should/must/can stay shared
2020-07-22T20:34:09Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-22T20:34:55Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:36:04Z seok: learning lisp teaches you that there is more than one meaning of equality
2020-07-22T20:37:34Z phoe: equality is not a well-defined term
2020-07-22T20:37:47Z phoe: as EQ, EQL, EQUAL, EQUALP proudly state
2020-07-22T20:38:05Z edgar-rft: lisp there can be eq, eql, and equal rights for everyone
2020-07-22T20:38:16Z seok: lool
2020-07-22T20:38:19Z seok: edgar-rft
2020-07-22T20:38:59Z seok: make it an xkcd plz
2020-07-22T20:39:12Z edgar-rft: oh I forgot equalp rights
2020-07-22T20:40:21Z Alfr_: edgar-rft, that may explain the inequality in reality. Test equivalence w/ equalp when comparing a set of rights but test with eq(l) when permission checking ... Nice catch.
2020-07-22T20:40:58Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T20:47:03Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-22T20:49:22Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T20:50:56Z Posterdati quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T20:52:07Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:02:50Z Posterdati quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T21:04:19Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:07:06Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T21:10:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T21:10:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:17:47Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-22T21:18:49Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-22T21:21:18Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:22:07Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T21:24:20Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:25:12Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:27:41Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:38:11Z satousan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T21:39:36Z jw4 quit (Quit: tot siens)
2020-07-22T21:39:39Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:40:02Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:40:05Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:40:13Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:40:26Z satousan quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-22T21:43:23Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T21:43:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:51:32Z hhdave joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:51:34Z hhdave_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T21:53:36Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-22T21:53:42Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T21:54:12Z matzy_: i have a question on managing a packages.lisp file. the first package I have listed has (:use :cl) and some exported funcs. then my next packages has basically the same. each one starts with (in-package :this-package). however, i keep getting bugs about the second package having name conflicts with cl
2020-07-22T21:54:27Z matzy_: *my next package
2020-07-22T21:54:52Z matzy_: i'll put together a simple pastebin if anyone is willing to take a peek
2020-07-22T21:54:58Z stylewarning: i will look
2020-07-22T21:56:04Z stylewarning: (but ping me whenever you do it)
2020-07-22T21:59:39Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-22T22:02:11Z matzy_: stylewarning: https://pastebin.com/WmHL079m
2020-07-22T22:02:15Z matzy_: thank you!!!
2020-07-22T22:02:54Z matzy_: maybe i should make one for the error results as well
2020-07-22T22:03:34Z stylewarning: matzy_: yes that was my next q
2020-07-22T22:03:46Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-22T22:03:59Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-22T22:07:14Z matzy_: https://pastebin.com/8TMMsBHZ
2020-07-22T22:07:41Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T22:07:56Z matzy_: the thing is, DB is a package I definied myself, so why would it have name conflicts with the base cl package? Shouldn't it inherit it's methods from there if anything?
2020-07-22T22:08:37Z matzy_: And I've look for over an hour now and can't find a good explanation as to what's going on here
2020-07-22T22:10:56Z matzy_: i know it has to be some simple concept i'm not grasping
2020-07-22T22:14:25Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-22T22:14:49Z matzy_: (it it helps, I'm symlinked the local asd file to the quicklisp/local-projects folder and generally load through ql)
2020-07-22T22:14:52Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-22T22:15:18Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T22:22:55Z nirved: matzy_: does the error happen if you load the system from a fresh lisp instance?
2020-07-22T22:22:56Z _death: when your db.lisp file was loaded, the current package did not have cl:in-package accessible.. you can prevent this kind of trouble by fully qualifying in-package in your forms
2020-07-22T22:24:46Z _death: the same goes for your defpackage forms
2020-07-22T22:25:45Z matzy_: nirved: yeah, i loaded up emacs and the first thing i opened was db.lisp
2020-07-22T22:26:28Z matzy_: do you have a link to what "fully qualifying" means so I can read up on it?  not sure what that is
2020-07-22T22:28:09Z matzy_: or just a simple explanation, i'm just not sure what you mean
2020-07-22T22:29:46Z stylewarning: matzy_: in-package is an unqualified symbol; you can "fully qualify" it by writing cl:in-package
2020-07-22T22:29:47Z _death: it means adding a package prefix, like "cl:in-package" instead of "in-package"
2020-07-22T22:29:52Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-22T22:30:54Z matzy_: but then i would need to do the same for every (defun) and everything else from the base cl package
2020-07-22T22:31:08Z stylewarning: matzy_: ordinarily you don't need to do it
2020-07-22T22:31:30Z matzy_: why do i need to then?
2020-07-22T22:31:33Z stylewarning: matzy_: it sounds like while experimenting, you accidentally loaded a file like db.lisp before Common Lisp knew that the db package :USE'd :CL
2020-07-22T22:31:38Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-22T22:31:44Z _death: no.. once you set the current package to your own package (that :uses cl) you don't need to qualify names from it
2020-07-22T22:31:46Z diamondbond quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T22:31:53Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-22T22:32:31Z stylewarning: matzy_: so it saw "in-package" and said "ok this is going to be a DB symbol", then later you :USE'd CL and it's like "wait you already put IN-PACKAGE in the DB package, now you're telling me to :USE CL, which also has IN-PACKAGE, now the world is going to end"
2020-07-22T22:32:52Z nirved: matzy_: (ql:quickload :conway-ff-api) works for me after commenting out "main" in asd
2020-07-22T22:33:19Z matzy_: but main is what kicks off my server
2020-07-22T22:33:30Z stylewarning: matzy_: main shouldn't happen in the ASDF file
2020-07-22T22:33:50Z matzy_: but i thought you list all your packages/files in asd files
2020-07-22T22:33:54Z stylewarning: matzy_: whoops, ignore that comment
2020-07-22T22:33:56Z matzy_: and their dependencies
2020-07-22T22:33:58Z rgherdt quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T22:34:03Z stylewarning: matzy_: sorry, I thought there was a function in the ASDF file
2020-07-22T22:34:05Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T22:34:27Z stylewarning: matzy_: the main file can be there. nirved commented it out because you didn't provide main.lisp to us
2020-07-22T22:34:48Z matzy_: ah you're right, my bad, sorry
2020-07-22T22:34:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T22:35:01Z nirved: matzy_: main should depend on db as well
2020-07-22T22:35:03Z matzy_: it just calls two funcs from server so i forgot about it
2020-07-22T22:35:38Z matzy_: so ultimately, when i start emacs i need to load my files in a particular order?
2020-07-22T22:35:49Z stylewarning: matzy_: just write :serial t in your asdf definition
2020-07-22T22:35:54Z stylewarning: and it will have a linear dependence order
2020-07-22T22:36:05Z stylewarning: matzy_: you just need to (ql:quickload :the-asdf-system)
2020-07-22T22:36:24Z stylewarning: or (asdf:load-system :the-asdf-system), either works, but QUICKLOAD will get all of the dependencies from the internet if need be
2020-07-22T22:37:02Z matzy_: so open emacs, start slime, ql my project, and go from there
2020-07-22T22:37:27Z nirved: yes
2020-07-22T22:37:39Z matzy_: awesome!!
2020-07-22T22:37:57Z matzy_: god i was so confused
2020-07-22T22:37:59Z matzy_: thanks a million
2020-07-22T22:38:16Z stylewarning: matzy_: http://codepad.org/IMINawCS
2020-07-22T22:38:22Z stylewarning: there's a little demo for how that error can pop up
2020-07-22T22:39:08Z stylewarning: matzy_: if we had (:use :cl) to begin with in our DEFPACKAGE, then the subsequent 'in-package symbol wouldn't create and intern a symbol into FOO, it would just simply refer to the one in the CL package.
2020-07-22T22:39:14Z stylewarning: so then the error wouldn't have popped up
2020-07-22T22:41:11Z matzy_: ahhhh i see
2020-07-22T22:41:14Z stylewarning: matzy_: compare to this: http://codepad.org/4fCE1v1i
2020-07-22T22:41:17Z matzy_: that's a good example, thanks
2020-07-22T22:41:59Z matzy_: i have to run out rn, be back in 15 min if anyone is still here and has some more light to shed on me lol
2020-07-22T22:42:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T22:43:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T22:45:43Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-22T22:46:46Z Tordek quit (Quit: brb)
2020-07-22T22:48:01Z Tordek joined #lisp
2020-07-22T22:48:51Z seok: anyone experienced with spinneret can help me with this? https://github.com/ruricolist/spinneret#syntax
2020-07-22T22:49:04Z seok: I am trying to use :raw pseudo tag, but getting errors
2020-07-22T22:49:13Z seok: Wondering how to use it correctly
2020-07-22T22:50:38Z matzy_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-22T22:51:10Z seok: nevermind, I think I've got it
2020-07-22T22:57:20Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-22T22:58:51Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T22:59:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T22:59:30Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-22T23:00:11Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-22T23:04:49Z shukryzablah left #lisp
2020-07-22T23:05:58Z random-nick quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-22T23:07:30Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T23:07:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T23:08:24Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-22T23:08:43Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-22T23:12:01Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-22T23:15:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T23:16:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-22T23:22:28Z nckx is now known as nckx-
2020-07-22T23:22:49Z pve_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T23:23:08Z nckx- is now known as nckx
2020-07-22T23:25:23Z pve_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-22T23:25:46Z random-nick quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-22T23:25:55Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-22T23:27:00Z countvaj` joined #lisp
2020-07-22T23:29:43Z matzy_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T23:30:17Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T23:34:21Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-22T23:34:22Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-22T23:38:45Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T23:39:47Z matzy_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T23:41:00Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-22T23:53:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-22T23:54:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:02:27Z megalography joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:05:42Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T00:05:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T00:05:50Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:06:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:15:30Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T00:15:31Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:16:24Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T00:17:25Z cosimone_ is now known as cosimone
2020-07-23T00:18:37Z countvaj` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-23T00:20:25Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:30:58Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T00:31:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:34:46Z megalography left #lisp
2020-07-23T00:34:59Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:40:22Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T00:40:23Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:43:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T00:44:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:45:00Z countvajhula joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:51:22Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:52:28Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T00:56:31Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T00:56:51Z hsaziz joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:57:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T00:57:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T00:58:11Z bsd4me quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T00:58:16Z hsaziz quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-23T01:04:00Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T01:04:20Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-23T01:10:25Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T01:12:23Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-23T01:13:10Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T01:13:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T01:19:34Z abhixec quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T01:20:10Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T01:21:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T01:22:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-23T01:31:16Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-23T01:32:00Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T01:32:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T01:34:58Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T01:39:08Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T01:39:26Z torbo: Looking at section 28.4.2 of the FreeBSD handbook, when replacing the default MTA with Postfix, the recommendation is to update /etc/mail/mailer.conf to override the default references to the sendmail binaries with Postfix ones.  But, when I install postfix via `pkg install postfix`, the post-installation message recommends overwriting /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf.  Which of those two recommendations is correct, or are they both
2020-07-23T01:39:26Z torbo: correct?  I notice that FreeBSD doesn't have a /usr/local/etc/mail directory in the default install -- at least not in the generic/freebsd12 Vagrant box -- so I have to first create one if I follow the post-installation message instructions.  If I create /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf, does it override /etc/mail/mailer.conf?
2020-07-23T01:39:40Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-23T01:40:39Z torbo: Apologies, wrong channel.
2020-07-23T01:44:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T01:55:08Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-23T01:56:00Z rats joined #lisp
2020-07-23T01:56:31Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T01:56:42Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T01:58:24Z rats quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-23T01:59:27Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:07:47Z countvajhula quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T02:07:53Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T02:08:14Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:11:45Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T02:12:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:16:33Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:24:28Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T02:24:44Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:25:23Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T02:25:29Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:26:21Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T02:26:36Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:27:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T02:27:48Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:29:22Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T02:29:30Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:31:18Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T02:31:29Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:37:00Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T02:38:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:38:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T02:38:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:46:46Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T02:50:02Z elflng quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-23T02:52:59Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-23T02:59:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T02:59:49Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T03:01:10Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-23T03:02:33Z Alfr__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T03:05:12Z Alfr_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T03:08:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T03:08:02Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T03:13:10Z elderK quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T03:15:20Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-23T03:18:56Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T03:30:09Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-23T03:33:05Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T03:33:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T03:38:23Z Oladon: Mornin', beach!
2020-07-23T03:41:38Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T03:45:30Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-23T03:47:30Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-23T03:48:35Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T03:48:45Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T03:51:55Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-23T03:55:01Z Jeanne-Kamikaze joined #lisp
2020-07-23T03:55:03Z Misha_B quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-23T03:57:18Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T03:57:26Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T04:05:34Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T04:06:05Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T04:07:28Z beach: phoe: Thanks for showing me the link https://blog.nelhage.com/post/reflections-on-performance/ during the online Lisp meeting.  It was very interesting reading.  But I am curious, what was your reason for showing it to me?  You probably have some thoughts about the contents yourself, right?
2020-07-23T04:11:18Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T04:15:55Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T04:17:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T04:21:34Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-23T04:25:16Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T04:25:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T04:30:41Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T04:36:35Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T04:36:41Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T04:37:49Z lucasb quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-23T04:40:11Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T04:42:19Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-23T04:44:36Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T04:45:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T04:56:29Z Jeanne-Kamikaze quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T05:00:00Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:00:53Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T05:04:39Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:06:11Z _Posterdati_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:06:34Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T05:06:45Z _Posterdati_ is now known as Posterdati
2020-07-23T05:07:13Z markasoftware: In https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/process.html#modify-a-shared-resource-from-multiple-threads, they defparameter a *rich* object, then modify that from several threads. However, just before that, they described how *standard-output* cannot be directly used in threads because variables are rebound. How does this work?
2020-07-23T05:11:17Z beach: Basically, bindings of special variables are specific to each thread.
2020-07-23T05:11:34Z beach: This is how Common Lisp implementations implement thread-specific storage.
2020-07-23T05:12:10Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:12:14Z markasoftware: Ok. I had always assumed that a (let) of a special variable simply stored the variable's value to a temporary location, then reassigned the variable, executed the body, then restored the old value
2020-07-23T05:12:47Z beach: That model works in an implementation without threads.
2020-07-23T05:13:05Z beach: What you are describing is called "shallow binding".
2020-07-23T05:13:24Z beach: With threads, you either need to use "deep binding" or you need to complicate things.
2020-07-23T05:13:53Z beach: With "deep binding", you store the bindings in the dynamic environment, and you need to search for the most recent one.
2020-07-23T05:13:54Z markasoftware: I see. But the spec doesn't preclude the use of shallow binding?
2020-07-23T05:14:11Z markasoftware: it's just implementations?
2020-07-23T05:14:27Z beach: With shallow binding, you can no longer have a single slot for all current values of a variable.
2020-07-23T05:14:58Z beach: So implementations that use shallow binding have storage in the thread object for the current value of variables.
2020-07-23T05:15:15Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:15:25Z Posterdati quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T05:15:53Z beach: The spec has no opinion about the type of binding that is used, as long as semantics are preserved.
2020-07-23T05:16:07Z beach: The thing is that the standard does not include threads.
2020-07-23T05:16:33Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:16:37Z markasoftware: deep binding is basically storing a stack of values?
2020-07-23T05:16:38Z beach: So we have collectively decided that, with threads, the global value of a variable is shared, and the run-time bindings are per-thread.
2020-07-23T05:16:43Z beach: Yes.
2020-07-23T05:17:14Z markasoftware: ok. And *standard-output* is dynamically bound?
2020-07-23T05:17:16Z beach: They are stored in the dynamic environment, together with condition handlers, block names, catch tags, etc.
2020-07-23T05:17:29Z beach: It has a global value.
2020-07-23T05:17:30Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T05:17:52Z beach: So if the application does not bind it, then that global value is used by all threads.
2020-07-23T05:18:17Z markasoftware: Is the dynamic environment thread local?
2020-07-23T05:18:17Z beach: But if a thread rebinds it, that binding is for that thread only.
2020-07-23T05:18:22Z beach: Yes.
2020-07-23T05:18:30Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:18:58Z beach: You can think of it as a list of entries parallel to the call stack.
2020-07-23T05:19:21Z beach: You should have watched my presentation for the online Lisp meeting yesterday.  I explain the dynamic environment there.
2020-07-23T05:19:41Z markasoftware: cool, thanks for the info. I have been playing around with hunchentoot and got tripped up by special variables a bit.
2020-07-23T05:19:54Z beach: I see.
2020-07-23T05:20:18Z markasoftware: I would like to attend one of those meetings, but as an american I have to weigh it against my sleep.
2020-07-23T05:20:33Z abhixec joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:20:40Z beach: They are recorded, so you can watch them when you wake up.
2020-07-23T05:23:08Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T05:23:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T05:23:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:23:46Z aeth: heh, online Lisp meetings
2020-07-23T05:23:52Z aeth: looks like the start of a new Common Lisp standard :-p
2020-07-23T05:25:28Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:31:07Z markasoftware: when you want to lookup a variable, you scan through the whole call stack for the first mention of it?
2020-07-23T05:31:34Z markasoftware: if it is not special
2020-07-23T05:31:38Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T05:32:02Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T05:32:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:33:44Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-23T05:36:14Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:36:40Z seok: Is there a util function somewhere to simply convert CLOS instance to a hash
2020-07-23T05:36:49Z seok: sounds like a bad idea eh
2020-07-23T05:38:24Z flip214: seok: some hash value depending only on the contents, or the identity? If the contents, how deep?
2020-07-23T05:38:32Z seok: shallow
2020-07-23T05:38:40Z seok: contents are just ints and strings
2020-07-23T05:40:30Z seok: hm, there is c2mop functions
2020-07-23T05:40:40Z seok: I think I can write one with those
2020-07-23T05:41:16Z abhixec quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-23T05:44:19Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T05:45:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T05:46:24Z seok: nice, I've done it
2020-07-23T05:46:35Z seok: thank you phoe I've copied your toolbox : D
2020-07-23T05:51:13Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-23T05:54:21Z flip214: seok: well, do you need EQ on bigints and strings, or just EQUAL, to get identical hash values?
2020-07-23T05:54:32Z flip214: clhs sxhash
2020-07-23T05:54:32Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sxhash.htm
2020-07-23T05:57:14Z space_otter quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T05:57:23Z beach: markasoftware: If the variable is not special, then it is lexical, and the compiler has translated it into a register or an offset into the stack frame, so the access is very fast.
2020-07-23T05:58:46Z beach: markasoftware: That's another thing I show in part 2 of my presentation for the online Lisp meeting.
2020-07-23T05:58:54Z markasoftware: yeah, i was watching it
2020-07-23T05:59:01Z beach: Great!
2020-07-23T05:59:59Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T06:00:25Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:00:57Z beach: markasoftware: Thanks for confirming my intimate conviction that software developers must have some knowledge about compiler design.
2020-07-23T06:01:20Z beach: ... and computer architecture, and operating systems, and ...
2020-07-23T06:01:39Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:02:01Z markasoftware: lol, lisp has forced me to understand a thing or two about the whole compilation process. I'm perpetually halfway through writing a toy lisp interpreter (no bytecode) in C
2020-07-23T06:02:01Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:02:15Z beach: Oh!
2020-07-23T06:02:44Z beach: Then you need to watch part 1 as well, and part 3, 4, ... when they are ready for presentation.
2020-07-23T06:04:23Z beach: markasoftware: Maybe I have asked you this before, and if so, I apologize, but what is your reason for this project of yours?
2020-07-23T06:04:32Z markasoftware: yep, for sure, I will keep an eye out for them on reddit
2020-07-23T06:04:45Z markasoftware: in hunchentoot or the interpreter?
2020-07-23T06:04:51Z beach: Interpreter.
2020-07-23T06:05:23Z markasoftware: just for fun/to learn. It's going to be very simple, the "call stack" I have so far is implemented as structs with pointers between them, not contiguous memory like any half decent compiler
2020-07-23T06:05:55Z beach: Sure, that's fine.  It simplifies things.
2020-07-23T06:06:20Z markasoftware: I'm sort of inspired by this project: https://github.com/rxi/fe
2020-07-23T06:06:49Z markasoftware: which is similarly simple to how I would like my lisp to be
2020-07-23T06:07:11Z beach: OK.
2020-07-23T06:08:10Z markasoftware: you're working on a full fledged CL implementation, right?
2020-07-23T06:08:19Z beach: Correct.
2020-07-23T06:08:32Z beach: minion: Please tell markasoftware about SICL.
2020-07-23T06:08:33Z minion: markasoftware: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
2020-07-23T06:08:43Z beach: minion: Please tell markasoftware about Cleavir.
2020-07-23T06:08:44Z minion: markasoftware: Cleavir: A project to create an implementation-independent compilation framework for Common Lisp. Currently Cleavir is part of SICL, but that might change in the future
2020-07-23T06:10:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T06:10:51Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:15:50Z thecoffemaker quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T06:17:51Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T06:18:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:23:05Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:24:50Z PuercoPop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T06:29:03Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-23T06:33:18Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:35:04Z teej quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-23T06:35:50Z phoe: beach: my question was directly related to the context, "does it need to be fast?", since I actually thought "how do people use a slow package manager, and how would people use a fast package manager?"
2020-07-23T06:36:20Z phoe: and it is a pretty random one that just came to me in the context of Guix
2020-07-23T06:36:34Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T06:36:35Z beach: I see.
2020-07-23T06:36:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:37:26Z beach: phoe: I basically agree with the blog on the link.  In fact, when I design some library or application, I have performance in mind from the start.
2020-07-23T06:38:11Z beach: I don't agree that choosing C++ is one of the factors that will contribute to the performance, as I have often explained.
2020-07-23T06:39:41Z beach: phoe: Are you busy?  I have some stuff I would like to bounce on you.  It is related to Common Lisp so it's on topic.
2020-07-23T06:40:03Z phoe: beach: I'm waking up and preparing for work, but I'll be able to respond to these things soon.
2020-07-23T06:40:05Z bsd4me quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T06:40:11Z beach: OK.
2020-07-23T06:40:35Z phoe: So, feel free to throw them at me, I just will need to take some time with responses.
2020-07-23T06:40:44Z beach: Will do, thanks.
2020-07-23T06:46:21Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T06:46:55Z beach: These online Lisp meetings, and also the format of recording some video, have revived my ideas for how an online "lecture series" should be structured.  I imagine it as being a replacement for the "lecture" part of a university course.  The main idea is to have a big graph of nodes, where each node represents maybe 5 minutes of information, corresponding to the attention span of the new generation.
2020-07-23T06:47:01Z beach: There would be a main path to follow for the majority of the participants, but also shortcuts for people who know the contents of some nodes, and diversions for people who lack the background for some nodes.  A node could contain some text, some sample code, some figures, and (this is the reason I thought about it) some video snippet, perhaps with some "animations" similar to what I did with the call stack.
2020-07-23T06:47:09Z beach: This idea is related to Common Lisp because I think it would be great to create such a "lecture series" with the purpose of teaching Common Lisp.  Existing courses seem to be mostly crap all over the world, and such a lecture serious could help students, but also inspire teachers to do a better job teaching it.
2020-07-23T06:47:10Z beach: And we could point newbies to it, as a complement to suggesting books, which seem to require more attention span than young people these days seem to have.
2020-07-23T06:47:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:48:31Z phoe: beach: where can I sign up for this
2020-07-23T06:48:40Z phoe: I like it
2020-07-23T06:48:43Z beach: Thanks.
2020-07-23T06:50:05Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T06:52:03Z testnode joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:53:44Z beach: For example, many times I have explained why (defun f (x) (push 234 x)) (f *some-var*) does not have the result that many newbies expect.  One of my "animations" would get it across in a few seconds.
2020-07-23T06:54:33Z beach: I would need to develop a better tool for those animations if I were to do it more often, but I think McCLIM would be ideal for that.
2020-07-23T06:55:23Z testnode: In SBCL lisp, trying to declare a local alien variable with 'with-alien' but having problems. code: (let ((magic (with-alien int 10))))
2020-07-23T06:56:17Z phoe: testnode: WITH-* macros usually have dynamic scope, meaning that once you leave the WITH-ALIEN macro, I expect the foreign variable to no longer be available.
2020-07-23T06:56:34Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:56:58Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T06:57:19Z phoe: if you want to manually allocate and free it, you can use MAKE-ALIEN instead
2020-07-23T06:57:28Z testnode: Ah that make sense, going to try it without using let then
2020-07-23T06:57:31Z phoe: see http://www.sbcl.org/manual/ 9.3.3 and 9.4
2020-07-23T06:57:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T06:58:11Z testnode: Thanks I shall check it out
2020-07-23T06:58:46Z thecoffemaker joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:00:48Z testnode: You were right, this worked: (with-alien ((magic int 10)))
2020-07-23T07:07:25Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T07:08:01Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:09:51Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-23T07:12:28Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-23T07:13:56Z v3ga: beach: that sounds like a good idea. Also if you're trying to adopt new and YOUNG users...I'm not sure if anyone has children or nephews/nieces but there's a trend for people up to their mid 20s now where they literally like to sit and watch people play games. To get to the point I'm also noticing people like to watch others code on twitch. Literally just recording the screen and working on their
2020-07-23T07:13:57Z v3ga: projects. Some narrate and discuss/solve problems with their viewers. That's the new shift.
2020-07-23T07:13:59Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:14:51Z v3ga: and I think that works well, you get to see that even people with experience have to sit down and break problems off opposed to thinking they just snap their fingers and solve problems MUCH FASTER than you.
2020-07-23T07:15:36Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:15:52Z v3ga: Baggers is a common lisp channel I glance at a few times a week as I decide if common lisp is something I want to invest in.
2020-07-23T07:22:18Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:23:51Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T07:24:05Z edgar-rft: beach (and everyone who's interested): IMO an important aspect is that if you write programs for *other* people you have to learn to see the problems throught the eyes of other people. Thjs makes you learn much more than only learning the language itself. I have no really good idea how to include this aspect in teaching videos.
2020-07-23T07:24:06Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:25:16Z v3ga: edgar-rft: I do. start a weekly newsletter sending out problems where people send/discuss their solutions and over time you get a grasp on where people go wrong
2020-07-23T07:26:30Z beach: v3ga: Thanks.
2020-07-23T07:27:10Z v3ga thumbs up
2020-07-23T07:27:41Z beach: edgar-rft: That aspect has permeated my teaching as long as I can remember.  But as Steven Pinker reminds us, it is apparently a very hard thing to do.
2020-07-23T07:30:08Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:30:11Z beach: Done right, a project to create such a "lecture series" would have to involve several categories of people.  Domain experts, of course (in this case expert Common Lisp programmers), but also experts in pedagogical technique (to design the graph, and the node contents), technicians to do the recording, and physical layout of the nodes.  But we don't have that luxury.
2020-07-23T07:30:35Z phoe: beach: don't have it *yet*
2020-07-23T07:30:40Z beach: Right.
2020-07-23T07:31:08Z phoe: I think that if one actually starts, they'll arrive as the process continues
2020-07-23T07:31:09Z beach: But I am thinking, between the numerous talented people hanging out on #lisp, I think we could get a reasonable approximation.
2020-07-23T07:31:39Z phoe: I don't think that we need all of the above people to start with the first iteration of the idea - and even then it'll be more like continuous improvement and development rather than numbered iterations
2020-07-23T07:32:02Z beach: Yes, and the project would have to be designed so that the "graph" can be modified.
2020-07-23T07:32:17Z edgar-rft: Trying to include the practical aspects is the most difficult thing ever. One could try to write programs that cover each and everything that *might* go wrong but this would end up in creating the most bloated, unmaintainable, and probaly slowest programs ever. How does one fond the right balance?
2020-07-23T07:32:35Z phoe: beach: that one isn't really hard, is it?
2020-07-23T07:32:47Z beach: phoe: Probably not.
2020-07-23T07:33:28Z beach: edgar-rft: Are you still talking about this idea of mine?  If so, are you referring to the code that gets exposed to the "students"?
2020-07-23T07:35:50Z edgar-rft: To everybody who doesn't know: RFT is the german abbreviation for a professional media electrician. I know foe example how to do audio and video recordings and post production. I'm working for several german TV and Radio stations. Let me know if I can help.
2020-07-23T07:36:32Z phoe: edgar-rft: ha!
2020-07-23T07:36:35Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T07:36:45Z wxie1 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:36:54Z beach: edgar-rft: Wow, nice!
2020-07-23T07:37:28Z beach: That's kind of what I meant when I said that there are a lot of talented people hanging out here, and that we would cover most of the expertise required.
2020-07-23T07:37:30Z beach: In a project like this, I myself would volunteer to do explain "uniform reference semantics", "evaluation model", stuff like that.  And I would use "animations".  But I would not be able to do the web design.
2020-07-23T07:37:39Z beach: s/do//
2020-07-23T07:37:55Z phoe: there's web design people in the Lisp community though, #lispweb exists and such
2020-07-23T07:38:02Z beach: Exactly!
2020-07-23T07:38:04Z phoe: maybe someone would be interested enough to contribute
2020-07-23T07:38:20Z beach: Again, I think this community represents a very broad spectrum of expertise.
2020-07-23T07:38:38Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T07:38:39Z wxie1 is now known as wxie
2020-07-23T07:39:17Z edgar-rft: unfortunately #lispweb is the deadest channel ever :-( and I myself am not good in web stuff either
2020-07-23T07:39:57Z beach: But we have others.  Like Shinmera, for instance.  Not that he is necessarily available.  I just mean that there are people here who know stuff like that.
2020-07-23T07:40:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T07:40:43Z phoe: and/or people who can learn stuff as it's required
2020-07-23T07:40:51Z beach: That too.
2020-07-23T07:40:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:41:33Z edgar-rft: It's always good to have *several* people per job. Working on volunteer basis usually means that people have to do paid work first.
2020-07-23T07:42:16Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:42:21Z beach: True.  Though I am in a position where teaching is part of my job, so I could justify some work on such a project as part of my job.
2020-07-23T07:43:18Z beach: I am busy with SICL and the associated research of course, so I can't work full time on it.
2020-07-23T07:43:27Z edgar-rft: I'm partially retired, so having enough time is luckily not my biggest problem :-)
2020-07-23T07:43:38Z beach: Brilliant!
2020-07-23T07:45:34Z aeth: I personally left #lispweb because nothing ever happened there
2020-07-23T07:46:05Z beach: We don't have to start such a project at this very moment, but it would be interesting to keep in mind, and to give some thought to what each person would be willing to contribute.
2020-07-23T07:46:05Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T07:46:05Z aeth: I guess people just ask their web questions in here
2020-07-23T07:46:12Z aeth: #lispgames thrives because games are... kind of their own thing
2020-07-23T07:46:41Z aeth: (I say that, but it hasn't had recent activity)
2020-07-23T07:47:23Z beach: There is a balance to be had between the number of channels and the "noise" in unrelated channels.  Often that balance must be the result of experience.
2020-07-23T07:47:55Z beach: There is a tendency to create a new forum each time some sub-topic is identified, but that's usually a bad idea.
2020-07-23T07:49:32Z edgar-rft: beach: I also thought that it's not imminently urgent, but it would be good to start a survey how many people would be interested to help because producing interesting videos is *much* more work than initially expected by people who never did such things before. :-)
2020-07-23T07:50:10Z beach: Good point.  That's partly why I announced what I would be willing to do and how I would do it.
2020-07-23T07:50:55Z aeth: edgar-rft: no, videos are even more work than that
2020-07-23T07:51:33Z beach: aeth: Even more than *much* more?
2020-07-23T07:51:55Z aeth: A lot of the highest quality YouTube channels are lucky to release videos several times in a month.
2020-07-23T07:53:32Z edgar-rft: For example I instantly fall asleep when watching screencast videos with longwinded explanations, or where I am forced to wait 30 seconds until some file in the video gets loaded.
2020-07-23T07:54:11Z aeth: The highest quality channels seem to tend to release things at most weekly, based on my rough skimming through quite a few in different topics.
2020-07-23T07:54:43Z aeth: Daily stuff tends to be unedited live recordings, yeah.
2020-07-23T07:55:07Z aeth: This seems to suggest that editing is either a lot of work or particularly unfun work or both
2020-07-23T07:55:49Z mankaev quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T07:55:57Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:56:27Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T07:56:36Z edgar-rft: I think it's not super-important to release videos as fast as possible, it would make more sense to build up a collection that's still useful in ten years or so. Luckily the Common Lisp spec is unlikely to change in the near future :-)
2020-07-23T07:56:38Z mankaev quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T07:56:51Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:56:57Z aeth: Yeah, but we should've gotten started in 2010
2020-07-23T07:57:35Z edgar-rft: yes, because then the first video might be finished in 2050
2020-07-23T07:57:38Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T07:57:51Z aeth: just in time for the new edition of the CL standard ;-)
2020-07-23T07:58:21Z aeth: Actually, aim for 2094 (for both)
2020-07-23T07:58:48Z aeth: it is... technically possible for me to still be alive in 2094
2020-07-23T08:05:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T08:06:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T08:06:47Z cjb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-23T08:13:26Z lukego: Youtube videos are a fascinating medium. I'm consuming a lot of information that way lately. I seem to especially enjoy long videos without any dialogue, where you can just look over someone's shoulder, and tutorials that go at breakneck speed so that you can barely keep up (but can slow down playback and rewind when you care about a detail you missed)
2020-07-23T08:14:21Z lukego: but I'm not consuming so much programming content as other stuff that's more naturally visual e.g. soldering, 3D modeling, bushcraft/outdoors skills
2020-07-23T08:14:41Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-23T08:15:45Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-23T08:16:54Z edgar-rft: Common Lisp outdoor videos sounds like an interesting idea :-) Let's use Common Lisp in the wild!
2020-07-23T08:17:27Z v3ga: lukego: i told them! =P  both youtube and twitch.  There used to be a guy that was writing a day trading bot in clojure...long 3-8 hour videos. Given, I didn't watch all of it but it was interesting. No dialogue, just music in the background but it was interesting to see him organize and solve his problems
2020-07-23T08:18:14Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-23T08:19:12Z testnode quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T08:21:07Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T08:22:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T08:22:35Z lukego: I tried making videos for a while but I made the mistake of trying to talk continuously about what I was doing. Ojojoj. Just a lot of waffling that's boring to listen to and distracting to do. Thankfully with Youtube people can just change the channel rather than discretely use their phone/laptop for 45 minutes until the talk is over :)
2020-07-23T08:29:11Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-23T08:32:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-23T08:32:37Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T08:37:46Z datajerk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T08:37:56Z edgar-rft: lukego: It's nearly impossible to make videos that are *interesting* to watch with the very first shot. My daily job is to look for the best sentences from the first *few* shots and make it look as it it was filmed in *one* go. But that needs of course much more time than the few minutes you see in the video.
2020-07-23T08:39:18Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T08:41:20Z TMA: producing X minutes of something good takes (* N X) minutes of effort for N on the order of tens to hundreds even in the most fortunate and simple cases
2020-07-23T08:42:31Z TMA: I can spend weeks analyzing a thing where the result can be summarized in two paragraphs to be read under two minutes
2020-07-23T08:42:49Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T08:43:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T08:44:37Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-23T08:45:59Z edgar-rft: We usually calculate 30 hours work (all people together) for 1 minute in the TV news and 100 hours for a 1 hour radio show.
2020-07-23T08:57:37Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T08:58:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:01:12Z deselby quit (Quit: Idle for 30+ days)
2020-07-23T09:01:34Z beach: Wow, that's amazing.
2020-07-23T09:04:17Z beach: Harag: Look at https://github.com/robert-strandh/Sandbox which contains 167 lines of code for implementing the sandbox environment using the technique I mentioned, i.e., it translates the form to an AST using Cleavir with respect to a first-class global environment, then translates the AST back to Common Lisp but with functions looked up on the first-class global environment.
2020-07-23T09:05:06Z beach: Harag: It is not perfect.  It doesn't handle errors and such.  So there is still some work to be done.  That work should be a matter of a few hours, unless I overlooked something.
2020-07-23T09:05:47Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T09:06:34Z beach: Harag: To try it out, load the system, then type (repl).  I removed the function CADR from the environment, so if you try say (let ((x 10)) (car (list x 234))) it works fine, but if you try (let ((x 10)) (cadr (list x 234))) you get an error.
2020-07-23T09:07:07Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:08:17Z beach: Harag: It is fine with me if you reject this solution based on the need for SICL, but that's the best I can do at the moment.  I need to get to work on some other stuff, so I am afraid that's all the time I can afford to spend on this.  Good luck.
2020-07-23T09:10:52Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T09:11:50Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:12:38Z ldb: hellp
2020-07-23T09:12:44Z beach: Harag: Another idea that occurred to me was to use Eclector and to intercept attempts to intern symbols in the CL package, and instead interning them in a sandbox package.  But I haven't thought through the consequences of such a solution.
2020-07-23T09:13:08Z beach: ldb: Is that a function to determine whether an object is in fact hell?
2020-07-23T09:13:57Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:14:02Z ldb: beach: no, it's a typo made by "o is too close to p"
2020-07-23T09:14:19Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:14:27Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T09:14:28Z beach: Ah!  Hello then.
2020-07-23T09:15:14Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:15:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:20:17Z v3ga: hmm, is there a style guide or naming convention that CL devs try to follow or is the community more so 'free'?
2020-07-23T09:20:37Z phoe: v3ga: google style guide + norvig slides
2020-07-23T09:20:43Z ldb: beach: I see you mentioned recording to the online meetings in irc log, would you mind show me the link?
2020-07-23T09:20:43Z v3ga: like in clojure generally your main function or entry point would go in 'core.clj' etc
2020-07-23T09:20:50Z phoe: https://google.github.io/styleguide/lispguide.xml
2020-07-23T09:20:54Z v3ga: phoe: ok, taking a look
2020-07-23T09:21:06Z phoe: https://www.cs.umd.edu/~nau/cmsc421/norvig-lisp-style.pdf
2020-07-23T09:21:11Z beach: ldb: phoe is the one running the meetings and the recordings.
2020-07-23T09:21:22Z phoe: ldb: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCymtXMj1M7cKiV9TKLoTtEg
2020-07-23T09:21:33Z ldb: thank you
2020-07-23T09:22:17Z beach: v3ga: I am also very attached to the advice given in the LUV slides by Norvig and Pitman.  Unfortunately, many of our fellow #lisp participants violate the "rules" in there all the time.
2020-07-23T09:22:20Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:22:30Z beach: I frequently point to page 13.
2020-07-23T09:23:39Z beach: v3ga: It is somewhat amusing to me that amateur newbies frequently reject the advice given by professional Common Lisp programmers with decades of experience from projects with many developers.
2020-07-23T09:23:41Z v3ga: beach: ok, i'll take a look at it.  This first guide may have answered my question. partcularing the architecture section. To reduce it...they basically say take time to explain your structure.  I'm ok with that. =P
2020-07-23T09:24:19Z phoe: v3ga: the issues it that many Lisp programs don't have main functions of their own, since they're meant to be used from the REPL and not from the unix shell
2020-07-23T09:24:41Z beach: v3ga: For software architecture, I recommend you start by designing a bunch of protocols, usually based on generic functions and standard classes.
2020-07-23T09:24:41Z phoe: but, if anything, I guess that a main.lisp won't hurt if your program requires to be run from outside Lisp
2020-07-23T09:24:56Z v3ga: beach: well...arrogance.  they may not understand the importance of patterns
2020-07-23T09:25:16Z phoe: patterns is a troublesome word, I'd say "conventions"
2020-07-23T09:25:32Z v3ga: phoe: but I prefer monolith.lisp =) jk
2020-07-23T09:25:35Z beach: v3ga: I think it just has to do with a tendency to underestimate the importance of conventions for others to understand the code fast.
2020-07-23T09:25:37Z phoe: there's already a term of design patterns and some of these are obsoleted by Lisp
2020-07-23T09:25:46Z phoe: see https://norvig.com/design-patterns/
2020-07-23T09:26:13Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-23T09:26:47Z v3ga: beach: yup. i'm learning that now but i've read a bit on refactoring and settings things up a certain way despite the goal of the app to make pieces swappable,etc
2020-07-23T09:27:04Z beach: v3ga: For some reason, it is often the case that newbies, while never taking the freedom to change word order or punctuation in English, somehow think it's an individual choice to do the analogue thing in their programming.
2020-07-23T09:27:25Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:28:58Z beach: v3ga: And that is fine with me.  They are free to do that.  But then, they have the nerve to submit their code for others to read.  And it seems they don't really want remarks or feedback; just a pat on the back.  When they don't get that, they get very angry.
2020-07-23T09:31:27Z v3ga: beach: well... yeah i'm not sure. I think even explaining your steps in comments before coding would work well. I suppose it just depends on your exposure. I recall taking a programming class in HS in 2002 and we had an old teacher that made us do most of our homework in UML.
2020-07-23T09:31:52Z v3ga: I wouldn't force or suggest that today but even using VB...we learned UML that spring lol.
2020-07-23T09:32:11Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T09:32:29Z TMA: As a newbie, I did not consider programs to be meant for programmers to read, I thought it was just between me and the computer. I became conscious of the error only later. Not a thing I am proud of
2020-07-23T09:33:27Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T09:33:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:34:42Z ldb: it is not meant to be read as an abstract specification
2020-07-23T09:34:48Z v3ga: TMA: I think that can be fine. for me, i'm wordy so i've always wrote a lot as a scratch pad. may as well put it in comments then over time I learned to clean it up
2020-07-23T09:34:57Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:35:09Z ldb: rather it is a partiacular solution that requires the reader to follow the text (code)
2020-07-23T09:35:21Z TMA: I still produce write-only throw-away pieces from time to time, trying to shave off some seconds by being sloppy.
2020-07-23T09:35:28Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-23T09:36:37Z v3ga: especially with lisp where you often can execute code thats commented out. Toy around and leave a few working examples at the bottom
2020-07-23T09:36:43Z TMA: I am not showing those off however, there is no place for being deliberately sloppy when soliciting feedback.
2020-07-23T09:37:56Z lukego: edgar-rft: sounds cool, what do you work on?
2020-07-23T09:37:58Z v3ga: I actually will make a git branch of an initial version with extra junk code so I remember what I was doing then in my regular branches I remove it or clean it up
2020-07-23T09:40:54Z lukego: I have a friend who produces a podcast pretty efficiently. He makes a list of lots of people who could be on it, hands that to an assistant who contacts and schedules them. Then he does the interviews himself or with one or two other people, who all have relevant subject matter experience and don't need much preparation. Finally the recording is sent off for pretty generic editing (cutting out "umms" etc) and away it goes.
2020-07-23T09:41:28Z lukego: (I don't actually listen to those podcasts myself though, not having the attention span and preferring to read transcripts...)
2020-07-23T09:41:51Z lukego: Lisp podcast could be cool though :)
2020-07-23T09:45:24Z beach: TMA: That attitude is fine with me.  But then they should really keep the code to themselves.  The problem is when they have a bug they need help with.  Then it becomes kind of necessary to have others read it, and the assumption that it is between them and the computer is no longer valid.
2020-07-23T09:45:41Z lukego: Sorry maybe it's not the time for spitballing ideas anyway when there's already momentum behind a cool new Lisp video meeting series :) don't mean to distract, that is all kinds of awesome
2020-07-23T09:46:02Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T09:46:53Z beach: TMA: And then they demand that the person helping them try to understand the code even though it is badly indented, uses incomprehensible symbols (sometimes in a language other than English), does not follow even the most elementary rules of software engineering.
2020-07-23T09:53:06Z edgar-rft: lukego: right now I'm transferring medieval folk music to be playable on a chromatic sopranino recorder with lilypond (guile scheme) but next week we'll do audio recordings for a psychiatric radio magazine in a local patient's daycare club, what probably will be funny.
2020-07-23T09:53:37Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T10:02:44Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:02:51Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:03:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T10:03:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:09:52Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T10:11:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T10:12:44Z shka_: how i can 'cast' -1 to unsigned-byte
2020-07-23T10:12:45Z shka_: ?
2020-07-23T10:12:48Z zge joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:13:11Z beach: What do you want the result to be?
2020-07-23T10:13:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:15:13Z beach: And unsigned-byte what?  Bytes have an arbitrary number of bits in Common Lisp.
2020-07-23T10:15:25Z shka_: beach: (unsigned-byte 64) to be precise
2020-07-23T10:15:31Z phoe: shka_: (ldb (byte 64 0) -1)
2020-07-23T10:15:43Z shka_: phoe: thank you kind spirit!
2020-07-23T10:15:58Z phoe: that'll give you #b1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
2020-07-23T10:16:02Z phoe: if that is what you are looking for
2020-07-23T10:16:08Z shka_: yes, this is exactly what i want
2020-07-23T10:16:17Z shka_: which i didn't articulate correctly
2020-07-23T10:18:05Z shka_: it is part of a slightly complicated hashing procedure, i really don't want to explain why i need this to be specific
2020-07-23T10:18:12Z shka_: but it works
2020-07-23T10:18:13Z shka_: awesome
2020-07-23T10:20:17Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T10:21:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:24:38Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T10:25:19Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:31:39Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:33:39Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:34:05Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T10:34:10Z shka_: heh, now i have like 10 hours to wait for result
2020-07-23T10:34:21Z shka_: big data is fun! :/
2020-07-23T10:35:41Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:36:41Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:36:49Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T10:37:01Z edgar-rft: somewhere I read that using Lisp in the 1960s was like "we computed until all the memory was full, then we started the garbage collector and went home because garbage collection would not be finished before the next morning"
2020-07-23T10:37:35Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:38:57Z ghard: edgar-rft: I think "Successful Lisp" at least had a mention of that no?
2020-07-23T10:40:29Z ghard: But, well, the first book on Lisp (actually first or second programming book I owned) was the Winston / Horn book. Not the 60s but well before CL
2020-07-23T10:41:07Z ghard: It's all MACLISP methinks
2020-07-23T10:42:16Z ghard: "They don't make garbage collectors like they used to."
2020-07-23T10:42:27Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T10:43:22Z ghard: I guess mark-and-sweep was still very much state-of-the art then?
2020-07-23T10:43:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:47:24Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:50:05Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T10:50:21Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:52:33Z shka_: edgar-rft: not only in the 60s
2020-07-23T10:52:37Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T10:52:38Z ghard: re. style questions - what seems to be the general consensus on package naming wrt cl-flurbalizer <=> net.zonk.cl-flurbalizer ? I have hard time deciding.
2020-07-23T10:52:49Z shka_: early lisp machines were quicker to restart then to wait of GC to finish
2020-07-23T10:52:50Z LdBeth joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:52:58Z shka_: AND they booted very slowly as well
2020-07-23T10:53:38Z shka_: ghard: there is no general consensus
2020-07-23T10:53:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:54:05Z shka_: i think that local nicknames made the second style more practical
2020-07-23T10:54:18Z ghard: Oh that's for sure
2020-07-23T10:54:31Z shka_: so maybe go for the second style
2020-07-23T10:54:53Z ghard: It's mostly hu.dwim.* libraries in the wild I've seen using that style.
2020-07-23T10:55:06Z shka_: oh, not only
2020-07-23T10:55:14Z LdBeth: and the first garbage collator memory fulled during the demonstration by John McCarthy
2020-07-23T10:55:33Z shka_: LdBeth: that demo didn't went well, huh?
2020-07-23T10:56:05Z LdBeth: ghard: gigamonkeys.com
2020-07-23T10:56:17Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T10:56:36Z shka_: ghard: there is actually quite people using this style, and strictly speaking it is better for being unique
2020-07-23T10:56:37Z LdBeth: due to the book Practical Common Lisp
2020-07-23T10:57:18Z ghard: Yes my instinct tells me the domain name-based convention, though more verbose, would be better.
2020-07-23T10:57:41Z LdBeth: shka_: that became a infamous source for people who feels gc unreliable
2020-07-23T10:58:17Z shka_: but local nicknames were not there and well… this leaves you with either using full package name always, using whole package or importing individual symbols
2020-07-23T10:58:35Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T10:58:49Z shka_: all of those options have problems
2020-07-23T10:58:58Z ghard: LdBeth: a bit like why we stopped developing lighter-than-air aviation :)
2020-07-23T10:59:38Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:00:28Z shka_: LdBeth: so, 60 years ago GC failed and I still don't think it is good enough
2020-07-23T11:00:35Z shka_: great logic :D
2020-07-23T11:00:47Z ghard: That's the human condition right there
2020-07-23T11:01:58Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T11:02:28Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-23T11:03:42Z stepnem_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T11:07:58Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:08:01Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:08:17Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T11:08:28Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T11:09:07Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:10:25Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T11:13:06Z phoe: (define-condition human-condition () ())
2020-07-23T11:16:01Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T11:16:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:16:35Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T11:16:45Z heisig quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T11:18:22Z flip214: phoe: why not base class WARNING?
2020-07-23T11:20:19Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:20:22Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T11:22:41Z phoe: flip214: right, should be ERROR
2020-07-23T11:23:24Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:28:21Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:30:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T11:36:00Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T11:36:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:44:21Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T11:46:12Z zge: hi, does anyone know how to get a list of eql specializers for a method?
2020-07-23T11:46:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:52:47Z elosant joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:53:36Z Frobozz_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:55:16Z beach` joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:56:01Z Frobozz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T11:56:02Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-23T11:56:41Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T11:58:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T11:59:52Z beach quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:02:31Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:04:28Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:05:32Z phoe: mop method-specializers
2020-07-23T12:05:32Z specbot: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/method-specializers.html
2020-07-23T12:05:34Z phoe: zge: ^
2020-07-23T12:07:10Z beach` is now known as beach
2020-07-23T12:08:06Z zge: phoe: is that portable?
2020-07-23T12:10:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:10:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:11:26Z phoe: zge: the MOP is de-facto portable. use closer-mop as a portability layter.
2020-07-23T12:11:28Z phoe: layer.
2020-07-23T12:12:10Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:12:42Z ebzzry: Xach: FYI, https://www.xach.com/clhs?q=defun hasn’t been working properly for about two weeks now.
2020-07-23T12:13:23Z phoe: $insults = Array("Perhaps you need to reread the spec?", "You're no pfdietz, that's for sure!", "I'm not sure why you thought that was a valid symbol, but you're wrong!", "What's your problem?", "Brucio? Is that you?", "But it will be available in IncreduLisp.", "I think you're confused.", "TRY HARDER!", "I'm a free variable! Bind me!");
2020-07-23T12:13:25Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:13:35Z phoe: o-oh my
2020-07-23T12:16:26Z zge: phoe: thanks!
2020-07-23T12:20:18Z phoe: zge: to answer a bit more elaborately, all contemporary implementations implement the MOP with only minor quirks, and closer-mop is a portability library that offers a unified interface for these and also fixes some of these implementation-dependent quirks so the behavior are uniform.
2020-07-23T12:20:23Z phoe: s/are/is/
2020-07-23T12:23:40Z ioa: XD
2020-07-23T12:25:32Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:25:43Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:26:53Z msk__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:27:36Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:29:00Z ebzzry__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:29:14Z msk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:30:24Z ebzzry___ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:30:33Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:31:48Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:32:02Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:32:17Z beach: zge: And to elaborate on phoe's elaboration, the metamodular website about the MOP is an HTML version of the chapters of the AMOP book declared to bee freely usable.  There was such an HTML version in the past, but the authors copyrighted and put restrictions on the HTML version (which they have the right to do of course) contrary to the explicit wishes of the authors of the book.
2020-07-23T12:32:47Z beach: So I made a better version than the existing one, and put no restrictions on it.
2020-07-23T12:33:28Z ebzzry__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:34:10Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:35:10Z ebzzry___ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:35:33Z ebzzry__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:35:41Z zge: beach: phoe: I got that part (though I wasn't sure of closer-mop was considered "standard"), what I'm still struggeling to find out is how to create a method metaobject ^^
2020-07-23T12:36:18Z zge: as far as I see, I need that to call method-specializers, on which I can call eql-specializer-object, right?
2020-07-23T12:36:32Z phoe: zge: create? ummm
2020-07-23T12:36:36Z phoe: DEFMETHOD is the best way of doing that
2020-07-23T12:36:45Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:36:45Z phoe: then use generic-function-methods or find-method
2020-07-23T12:37:25Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:37:36Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:37:50Z zge: oops, I have the methods, I want to get the metaobjects.
2020-07-23T12:38:01Z zge: generic-function-methods does the job, thanks!
2020-07-23T12:38:02Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:38:04Z zge: (again)
2020-07-23T12:38:11Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:38:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:38:24Z phoe: what do you mean though, metaobjects
2020-07-23T12:38:29Z vaporatorius__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T12:38:31Z phoe: you mean specializers?
2020-07-23T12:38:41Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:38:41Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-23T12:38:41Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:38:58Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:39:07Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:39:13Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T12:40:52Z ebzzry__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:42:24Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:42:50Z zge: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/method-specializers.html mentions "method metaobjects"
2020-07-23T12:42:55Z zge: phoe: ^
2020-07-23T12:44:36Z beach: zge: That just mean that the method *is* a kind of "metaobject".
2020-07-23T12:44:41Z beach: Not that it *has* one.
2020-07-23T12:45:22Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:45:26Z beach: If you look in the object graph on the metamodular page, you will see that METHOD is a subclass of METAOBJECT.
2020-07-23T12:46:09Z beach: zge: Also, I didn't write that paragraph just for you.  I though it would be good for other #lisp participants to be reminded.
2020-07-23T12:47:53Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:49:17Z ebzzry__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:50:08Z zge: beach: sorry, I just don't want people to waste too much time with my stupid problems :/
2020-07-23T12:50:33Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:50:36Z ebzzry___ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:50:52Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:52:08Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:52:11Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:52:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:53:25Z ebzzry__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:53:38Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:53:38Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:54:53Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T12:55:05Z ebzzry___ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:55:07Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:55:13Z ebzzry__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:56:14Z msk__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:56:35Z ebzzry___ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:56:57Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:58:10Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T12:59:10Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T12:59:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T12:59:51Z ebzzry__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:14:20Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:15:24Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:15:24Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-23T13:16:03Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:17:29Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:18:45Z ebzzry___ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:19:03Z ebzzry__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:20:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:20:21Z Harag: beach: thank you very much, much appreciated will go through it
2020-07-23T13:20:26Z ebzzry___ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:20:30Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:20:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:20:56Z beach: Pleasure.
2020-07-23T13:21:45Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:23:32Z ebzzry__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:25:15Z phoe: zge: that ain't a stupid problem
2020-07-23T13:26:34Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:26:55Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:27:42Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T13:29:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:29:26Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:29:31Z ebzzry___ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:30:48Z ebzzry__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:32:05Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:32:07Z ebzzry___ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:33:47Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:34:06Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:34:10Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:34:59Z ebzzry__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:36:54Z ebzzry___ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:37:27Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T13:38:49Z elosant quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-23T13:39:06Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:39:31Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:40:02Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T13:40:35Z ebzzry__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:42:07Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:42:22Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:42:37Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:43:59Z ebzzry___ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:44:01Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:45:13Z ebzzry__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:45:18Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:45:47Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T13:46:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:46:43Z ebzzry__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:47:37Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:48:04Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:48:11Z ebzzry___ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:49:26Z ebzzry___ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:49:28Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:50:15Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:50:28Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:50:45Z ebzzry__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:50:46Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:51:49Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:52:38Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:52:39Z technobean quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.2))
2020-07-23T13:53:07Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:53:08Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:54:30Z ebzzry__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:54:53Z ebzzry___ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:55:56Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T13:56:03Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:56:05Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:56:50Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T13:57:34Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T13:59:23Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T13:59:37Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:00:52Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:01:15Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-23T14:03:15Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:03:47Z ebzzry__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T14:05:51Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2020-07-23T14:06:05Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T14:06:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T14:06:38Z diamondbond quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T14:06:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:07:55Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T14:08:02Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:08:25Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T14:08:28Z lonjil: beach: that's a neat idea, the graph-based lecture series.
2020-07-23T14:08:28Z lonjil: phoe and I had a discussion last week where we wrote a short list of things that would be good for the CL ecosystem and community. Better teaching material is one. So if the idea goes somewhere I would like to help.
2020-07-23T14:08:38Z Lord_of_Life quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T14:09:35Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:10:03Z Necktwi quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T14:10:35Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T14:14:49Z CrazyEddy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T14:16:15Z beach: lonjil: Thanks.
2020-07-23T14:16:32Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:18:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T14:24:49Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T14:25:12Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:33:45Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:34:36Z dlowe: is this list written down anywhere?
2020-07-23T14:34:57Z phoe: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/lonjil/cl-todo
2020-07-23T14:35:17Z phoe: I bet that posting it here publicly will cause it to expand 4x in size
2020-07-23T14:35:28Z dlowe: (is it an s-expression?)
2020-07-23T14:35:28Z phoe: and that the Hypothetical Future Revision™ will also be there
2020-07-23T14:35:29Z lonjil: Probably.
2020-07-23T14:35:31Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T14:35:31Z phoe: dlowe: it isn't
2020-07-23T14:35:33Z phoe: it's markdown
2020-07-23T14:35:41Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:35:53Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:36:51Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-23T14:37:12Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:39:51Z eta: re, build systems, I've been using https://code.tvl.fyi/tree/nix/buildLisp/README.md and it's great
2020-07-23T14:39:57Z eta: have had to write a lot of manual nix expressions though
2020-07-23T14:40:06Z rogersm quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-23T14:40:13Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T14:45:20Z beach: lonjil: Is that a discussion I totally missed, or did it take place elsewhere?
2020-07-23T14:45:46Z lonjil: beach: elsewhere
2020-07-23T14:45:58Z beach: Whew!  :)
2020-07-23T14:46:51Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:46:52Z lonjil: beach: we had been talking a little all over the place for ages, but the discussion that resulted in that list was a video call.
2020-07-23T14:46:55Z beach: A prerequisite for WSCL is to turn the dpANS into a single LaTeX document, with multiple files of course, so that it can be indexed, cross referenced, etc.
2020-07-23T14:47:09Z beach: lonjil: Great!
2020-07-23T14:47:21Z phoe: beach: that's also a prerequisite for UltraSpec, in a way
2020-07-23T14:47:29Z beach: True.
2020-07-23T14:47:38Z beach: So maybe make that an explicit point.
2020-07-23T14:47:44Z lukego: eta: very interesting, buildlisp in nix! I'm using ql2nix with reasonable success but I'll check it out
2020-07-23T14:48:44Z lonjil: beach: phoe told me about a TeX parser that could be adapted to parse dpANS, which could then be translated into any format.
2020-07-23T14:48:59Z beach: Yeah, that's even better.
2020-07-23T14:49:07Z phoe: https://github.com/tvraman/aster-math/
2020-07-23T14:49:19Z eta: lukego, handy, I hadn't heard of ql2nix! buildLisp.nix completely replaces ASDF, fwiw, so you need to write your own nix expressions for like every package
2020-07-23T14:49:30Z lonjil: Perhaps the WSCL could be some kind of overlay for that, which can then also be translated into any format.
2020-07-23T14:49:52Z eta: the code.tvl.fyi repo has a bunch already though, and I have a bunch in https://git.theta.eu.org/eta/whatsxmpp/src/branch/master/default.nix too
2020-07-23T14:49:55Z lukego: ql2nix is pretty neat but a bit elaborate. it downloads all your dependencies from quicklisp, recursively, and snapshots them with nix expressions.
2020-07-23T14:50:26Z beach: lonjil: "overlay"?
2020-07-23T14:50:48Z lukego: eta: do you need to write those depot declarations manually? that's the bit that ql2nix automates via quicklisp
2020-07-23T14:51:16Z beach: lonjil: Oh, I think I see what you mean.
2020-07-23T14:51:24Z lonjil: beach: Ah, as in a diff or some other construct allowing you to add to or modify something.
2020-07-23T14:51:30Z beach: Yeah, sure.
2020-07-23T14:51:40Z eta: lukego, yeah, you do
2020-07-23T14:51:52Z eta: so ql2nix actually seems pretty interesting from the point of view of having to avoid that
2020-07-23T14:52:22Z eta: lukego, I think the buildLisp.nix dev is planning on implementing a similar thing though
2020-07-23T14:52:26Z lukego: I can recommend it. haven't pushed my derivations anywhere yet but I can quickly gist my main scripts as a peek
2020-07-23T14:54:05Z lukego: here're my bits of nix code for creating "batteries included" distros of sbcl and emacs: https://gist.github.com/
2020-07-23T14:55:30Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:57:53Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T14:58:08Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T14:58:15Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-23T14:58:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:00:22Z lukego: let's try that again: https://gist.github.com/lukego/aa8b1ae1d2c6c98667c72cacbbbcee9c
2020-07-23T15:00:49Z libertyprime quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T15:01:47Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:03:50Z akkad quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-23T15:03:55Z akkad_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:03:57Z akkad_ is now known as akkad
2020-07-23T15:04:22Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:13:30Z luckless joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:13:37Z paule32 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:13:41Z paule32: hello
2020-07-23T15:13:47Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:13:53Z paule32: i have an 2d array:
2020-07-23T15:13:55Z paule32: (defparameter *grid*    (make-array '(20 20) :initial-element 0))
2020-07-23T15:14:28Z paule32: i add 1d array to the *grid* like '(0 0 0)
2020-07-23T15:14:46Z phoe: how are you adding it?
2020-07-23T15:14:57Z paule32: aref
2020-07-23T15:14:59Z theseb left #lisp
2020-07-23T15:15:17Z paule32: setf (aref *grid* 5  4) '(0 0 0))
2020-07-23T15:16:32Z paule32: how can i add "one" element at 5, 4 position in *grid* so, that the element is a 3x3 matrix/array
2020-07-23T15:17:10Z phoe: setf the (nth n (aref *grid* 5 4))
2020-07-23T15:18:00Z paule32: ah, ok, you mean, with nth, a adding the new array ?
2020-07-23T15:18:15Z paule32: a = and
2020-07-23T15:18:27Z phoe: you aren't really adding a new array there, '(0 0 0) is a list
2020-07-23T15:18:39Z phoe: and if you want to modify it later, use LIST instead of quoted data
2020-07-23T15:18:46Z phoe: quoted data is unsafe to modify.
2020-07-23T15:18:57Z paule32: ok
2020-07-23T15:19:37Z paule32: with qoute:  '( (0 0 0) (0 0 0) (0 0 0))  ?
2020-07-23T15:19:44Z phoe: wait, why
2020-07-23T15:19:50Z phoe: you have a 2D array full of zeroes
2020-07-23T15:19:56Z paule32: yes
2020-07-23T15:20:05Z phoe: then you modify one of the places inside that array to instead hold a (list 0 0 0)
2020-07-23T15:20:18Z phoe: then you can modify the nth element of that list by using SETF NTH on it
2020-07-23T15:20:28Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T15:20:35Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:21:00Z paule32: why is qoute unsafe as list ?
2020-07-23T15:21:12Z paule32: in some documentations, they equal
2020-07-23T15:21:37Z phoe: modifying literal data === undefined behavior
2020-07-23T15:21:50Z phoe: and '(0 0 0) is literal data
2020-07-23T15:21:55Z paule32: ah ok
2020-07-23T15:22:07Z phoe: (list 0 0 0) creates a fresh list that is safe to modify, but '(0 0 0) might be shared with some other data structures in the Lisp image
2020-07-23T15:22:27Z phoe: so modifying it might also modify other things.
2020-07-23T15:22:39Z paule32: hmm
2020-07-23T15:22:55Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T15:22:59Z paule32: thank you
2020-07-23T15:25:56Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:31:20Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:34:01Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T15:37:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:39:02Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:39:44Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T15:43:45Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T15:45:24Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:46:00Z rpg joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:48:08Z rpg: Am I right in thinking that the CL IDE world is pretty much still Emacs, CCL, or commercial? No one's managed to get the Eclipse thing to work right?  Trying to figure out what to recommend to an intern working with me.  Is there a good "getting started with Emacs and CL for the non-emacs user" resource anywhere?
2020-07-23T15:48:23Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:49:10Z dlowe: emacs is perfectly useable as a normalish text editor as long as you use the menubar first for everything and turn on transient-mark-mode
2020-07-23T15:49:33Z dlowe: which is slow, granted
2020-07-23T15:49:42Z dlowe: (using the menubar for everything)
2020-07-23T15:50:09Z dlowe: it's a much gentler on-ramp for CL newbies than tutorials
2020-07-23T15:50:19Z rpg: dlowe: Yeah, but then on top of that there's spinning up to use SLIME or SLY, which is an additional pull. Is there a "how to get started" resource for them? There were videos, but I fear they may be badly bitrotted.
2020-07-23T15:51:03Z rpg: Wondering if the CCL IDE might be a gentler introduction.  The SLIME menubar, IMO, is under-populated, and could be very cryptic for a novice.
2020-07-23T15:51:08Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T15:51:21Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T15:51:37Z dlowe: LispWorks personal edition might be a good start too
2020-07-23T15:52:05Z dlowe: The slime menubar being underpopulated should be addressed, though
2020-07-23T15:52:12Z rpg: Can't do that, unfortunately, my project blows past the personal edition resource lmits.
2020-07-23T15:53:34Z rpg: ... and we don't use LW generally, so I can't justify buying a copy.
2020-07-23T15:56:33Z rpg: Would be great to have a "Help! I want to use Common Lisp, but I don't know Emacs!" web page somewhere. But since i"ve used Emacs for something like three decades now, I'm hardly the person to write it!
2020-07-23T15:57:20Z dlowe: I thought I saw something like that, but it was a while ago
2020-07-23T15:59:17Z grewal: atom has slima, which might be sufficient
2020-07-23T16:05:12Z ilshad joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:15:21Z paule32: what is CCL IDE ?
2020-07-23T16:19:31Z phoe: AFAIK it's a modified Hemlock that has been changed to use the macOS Cocoa user interface library
2020-07-23T16:20:08Z luis: Is there a recommended way to customize the compile-file/load output using ASDF? I want to instrument it with things like *compile-verbose* and print a summary of warnings per file compiled/loaded for instance.
2020-07-23T16:20:13Z paule32: IDE for CL/SBCL in work?
2020-07-23T16:20:42Z rpg: luis: I think there's a way to hook around compile file....
2020-07-23T16:21:12Z luis: rpg: tell me more! (and what about LOAD?)
2020-07-23T16:21:16Z paule32: is ASDF not absolute ?
2020-07-23T16:22:03Z luis: paule32: what does "absolute" mean?
2020-07-23T16:22:17Z luis: universal?
2020-07-23T16:22:22Z paule32: luis: i mean deprecated
2020-07-23T16:22:27Z rpg: luis: look for `:around-compile` in the manual.
2020-07-23T16:22:39Z luis: rpg: thanks.
2020-07-23T16:23:10Z luis: paule32: deprecated? in favor of what?
2020-07-23T16:23:28Z rpg: see 11.1, "Controlling file compilation". I'm finding it a little difficult to read, so feel free to discuss with me and we can try to get the docs tweaked to be more informative.
2020-07-23T16:23:42Z paule32: luis: i can smesh remember that somewhere stand, ASDF is old
2020-07-23T16:24:41Z luis: paule32: Common Lisp is old, we like old things around here ;-) And I don't understand half the words you write, maybe I'm old too.
2020-07-23T16:25:10Z rpg: smesh?
2020-07-23T16:25:36Z paule32: luis: haha, yes, sorry for my slengsh, smesh in manner of "can be - can not be", i love old suff, too
2020-07-23T16:27:07Z paule32: smesh = cooled mixed watter ice
2020-07-23T16:27:25Z luis: rpg: I'd like to control this at load-system time. I don't want to change any system.
2020-07-23T16:28:00Z rpg: luis: `:around` method on `asdf:perform`?
2020-07-23T16:28:07Z paule32: luis: have you quicklisp?
2020-07-23T16:28:23Z luis: rpg: can you recommend a good specialisation for that around?
2020-07-23T16:28:30Z rpg: luis: Going to be nasty, though, because you don't have an easy way to identify how to specialize.
2020-07-23T16:28:33Z luis: paule32: yes, I'm not /that/ old!
2020-07-23T16:28:35Z rpg: luis: haha
2020-07-23T16:29:06Z luis: rpg: the :around on operation + component is taken :)
2020-07-23T16:29:48Z rpg: luis: Probably not without knowing what specifically you want to do this to. Everything you load? Or only some specific files/
2020-07-23T16:30:15Z rpg: Files in a system?
2020-07-23T16:30:29Z luis: rpg: everything. maybe an :around on load-op + component? that seems to be free.
2020-07-23T16:30:54Z rpg: luis: That probably would be good. You might want `load-op` and `cl-source-file`.
2020-07-23T16:31:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T16:31:24Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:31:30Z rpg: And of course, then you only get the load info, nothing about compilation.
2020-07-23T16:31:52Z rpg: `component` will get you the `system` ops, etc.
2020-07-23T16:32:13Z luis: rpg: should I add something to compile-op too? I thought load-op implied compile-op?
2020-07-23T16:32:28Z rpg: luis: I think that compile file hook is probably there because of the around method being hijacked.
2020-07-23T16:33:04Z rpg: luis: if you load-op, then compile-op will be put in the plan, but compilation does not happen in the scope of loading. ASDF plans are flat, not hieararchical.
2020-07-23T16:33:24Z rpg: So also, loading files does NOT happen INSIDE loading a system.
2020-07-23T16:33:42Z rpg: This is one of the most counter-intuitive facts about ASDF
2020-07-23T16:33:58Z luis: rpg: I see, thanks. I might try to advise load/compile-file if SBCL/ACL let me.
2020-07-23T16:34:46Z rpg: ACL lets you, but they are pushing use of their FWRAP instead of DEFADVICE. I dunno about SBCL. It has wrappers, but I don't understand them at all well.
2020-07-23T16:35:32Z rpg: It would be just LOVELY to have a DEFADVICE portability layer library, but I don't think one exists (I'd be so happy to be wrong).
2020-07-23T16:36:38Z luis: rpg: yeah, that'd be nice. We have something internally for excl:fwrap and sb-int:encapsulate, should try to publish it, maybe.
2020-07-23T16:36:43Z joast joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:39:14Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T16:39:29Z rpg: luis: Yes, please!!!
2020-07-23T16:39:47Z rpg: I don't know if CCL has internals that would support that.
2020-07-23T16:40:16Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:40:25Z phoe: https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/blob/275105afd94706d95ac955178316074931822c42/lib/encapsulate.lisp
2020-07-23T16:40:28Z rpg: Yup. There's `ADVICE` in CCL
2020-07-23T16:40:39Z rpg: s/ADVICE/ADVISE/
2020-07-23T16:40:56Z luis opens a trivial-advice.lisp file
2020-07-23T16:41:08Z rpg applauds
2020-07-23T16:41:21Z phoe: "eat healthy food, exercise often, go to sleep early"
2020-07-23T16:41:26Z jackdaniel: clap clap clap
2020-07-23T16:41:41Z phoe: there, that's trivial advice
2020-07-23T16:42:22Z rpg: phoe: I nominate you to write the after load message
2020-07-23T16:42:33Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:42:45Z phoe: (trivial-advice:advise-me)
2020-07-23T16:42:49Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T16:42:56Z easye laughs.
2020-07-23T16:47:30Z luckless_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:49:41Z johnjay quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T16:50:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T16:50:23Z luckless quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T16:50:44Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:50:48Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:53:24Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:53:34Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T16:58:15Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T16:58:35Z vaporatorius__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T16:58:47Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:58:47Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-23T16:58:47Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-23T16:58:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:01:26Z diamondbond_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:04:54Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-23T17:07:04Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T17:07:05Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:08:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T17:17:25Z diamondbond_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T17:17:39Z drdee joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:19:58Z mcostacurta joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:20:00Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-23T17:20:57Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:21:47Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T17:22:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:23:03Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:24:48Z Bike quit (Quit: bye)
2020-07-23T17:26:11Z diamondbond quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-23T17:29:24Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:29:41Z seok: anyone use https://github.com/eudoxia0/cl-pass ?
2020-07-23T17:29:44Z seok: looks very simple
2020-07-23T17:29:47Z jw4 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T17:30:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T17:31:23Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:33:53Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T17:33:54Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:36:00Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:37:23Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:41:25Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T17:41:35Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:41:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T17:43:50Z mcostacurta quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T17:49:47Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T17:50:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:52:44Z rpg quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-07-23T17:56:30Z ilshad quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T17:58:34Z ilshad joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:58:56Z johnjay joined #lisp
2020-07-23T17:59:10Z drdee quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T17:59:24Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-23T18:01:32Z seok: is there a predicate to check whether an object is a user-defined class
2020-07-23T18:02:04Z phoe: seok: not really
2020-07-23T18:02:17Z phoe: why do you need it?
2020-07-23T18:02:49Z seok: I've got a class->hash converter similar to your shallow copier
2020-07-23T18:03:03Z seok: want to check if a value can be recursively converted
2020-07-23T18:04:07Z seok: The alternative is to check whether the class is member of a pre defined class list, trying to avoid that
2020-07-23T18:04:33Z phoe: I don't think there is such a thing
2020-07-23T18:04:39Z seok: ok
2020-07-23T18:05:02Z seok: Yeah, I thought there might not be such a thing since there is little distinction between user defined classes and pre built ones..
2020-07-23T18:05:07Z seok: in built
2020-07-23T18:05:44Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T18:06:34Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T18:07:55Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T18:08:30Z luis: rpg, phoe: here's a a crude, initial version https://github.com/luismbo/trivial-advice
2020-07-23T18:11:48Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T18:15:54Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T18:17:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T18:23:28Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T18:30:18Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T18:31:45Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T18:32:51Z paule32 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T18:34:12Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T18:36:34Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-23T18:41:38Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T18:41:55Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T18:44:10Z technobean quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.2))
2020-07-23T18:45:14Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-23T18:48:39Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T18:49:44Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T18:51:05Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:02:59Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T19:03:06Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:07:27Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:07:58Z wsinatra quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T19:09:35Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:14:03Z markasoftware: Can I not use a lambda for a `satisfies` type?
2020-07-23T19:15:11Z Codaraxis_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:15:54Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T19:17:14Z markasoftware: ok, teh spec explicitly says I may not
2020-07-23T19:17:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:18:46Z jackdaniel: - can I not use X? - even better, you can't use X! :)
2020-07-23T19:18:58Z Codaraxis__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T19:19:28Z markasoftware: so (list-of 'some-type) is basically impossible to enforce without generating a `list-of-some-type-p` function during deftype expansion?
2020-07-23T19:20:53Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T19:21:01Z jackdaniel: if I understand your question correctly than yes
2020-07-23T19:21:12Z jackdaniel: I had a similar prolbem with a type (sequence type)
2020-07-23T19:21:14Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:22:03Z jackdaniel: markasoftware: https://github.com/TurtleWarePL/Clovetree/blob/master/Source/utilities.lisp#L11
2020-07-23T19:22:12Z technobean quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.2))
2020-07-23T19:23:18Z jackdaniel: however, as someone noted the other day, cl implementation is free to reorder types in the AND specifier, so you should probably check whether it is a sequence directly in the lambda body
2020-07-23T19:23:21Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T19:23:58Z markasoftware: it's too bad, i was reading an article where they used lambda for satisfies to implement list-of, but it was emacs lisp
2020-07-23T19:24:10Z markasoftware: just this one time, emacs lisp, you have won
2020-07-23T19:24:34Z markasoftware: Thanks for the link, time to gensym
2020-07-23T19:25:44Z jackdaniel also mentions, that in CLIM you may parametrize even built-in types
2020-07-23T19:25:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T19:25:55Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:26:10Z Codaraxis__ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:26:20Z jackdaniel: so i.e there is a presentation type (sequence type)
2020-07-23T19:29:47Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T19:30:22Z Codaraxis_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T19:31:07Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:36:49Z himmAllRight17 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T19:39:18Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:42:17Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:45:37Z narimiran quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-23T19:49:01Z ilshad quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T19:49:04Z jmercouris: beach: is the whole point of eclector that it is implemented in Lisp?
2020-07-23T19:54:10Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T19:54:21Z ToeTag joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:54:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T19:56:31Z ToeTag left #lisp
2020-07-23T19:56:42Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-23T20:05:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T20:05:23Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T20:07:48Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-23T20:19:10Z johnjay quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T20:20:03Z jmercouris: ?
2020-07-23T20:20:08Z jmercouris: sorry, typo
2020-07-23T20:21:32Z johnjay joined #lisp
2020-07-23T20:27:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T20:28:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T20:29:06Z wsinatra_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T20:29:26Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-23T20:31:00Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T20:33:48Z jackdaniel: various benefits come from the fact, that it is implemented in lisp. i.e you may easily integrate it in cl applications which analyze common lisp code
2020-07-23T20:34:07Z jackdaniel: (and of course, you may extend it)
2020-07-23T20:35:30Z jackdaniel: not to mention that code written in cl is usually more concise, so it is easier to look over it when debugging
2020-07-23T20:36:42Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T20:36:44Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T20:38:01Z jmercouris: that's true
2020-07-23T20:43:43Z stylewarning quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-23T20:43:56Z stylewarning joined #lisp
2020-07-23T20:44:54Z q3d joined #lisp
2020-07-23T20:50:44Z jmercouris: I'm using cl-css and I can't figure out for the life of me how to produce this simple css
2020-07-23T20:50:44Z jmercouris: http://dpaste.com/4SGFPALYF
2020-07-23T20:52:42Z jmercouris: every time I try to nest symbols I get an error
2020-07-23T20:54:13Z jmercouris: (cl-css:css '(((cl-css:css '(("@keyframes spin" ("0%" :transform "rotate(0deg)") ("100%" :transform "rotate(360deg)"))))
2020-07-23T20:54:14Z jmercouris: (cl-css:css '(("@keyframes spin" ("0%" :transform "rotate(0deg)") ("100%" :transform "rotate(360deg)"))))
2020-07-23T20:54:19Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-23T20:54:22Z jmercouris: sorry for the double paste, only the second one is fine
2020-07-23T20:55:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T20:55:59Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T21:03:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:04:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:04:30Z nullheroes quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-23T21:05:45Z ghard quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:05:52Z Alfr__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:05:54Z ghard joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:11:30Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:11:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:12:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:15:32Z phoe: markasoftware: I solved this issue some time ago
2020-07-23T21:16:01Z phoe: ...and jackdaniel already posted a solution equivalent to mine :D
2020-07-23T21:16:15Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:16:44Z q3d quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:16:47Z Alfr joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:17:44Z Inline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T21:21:33Z phoe: jackdaniel: what's the question about conformance that you have on L3 of that file? I think it conforms as long as you make an additional check if SEQ is of type SEQUENCE inside the lambda, since the implementation is allowed to reorder the contents of the AND type specifier
2020-07-23T21:22:10Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:22:10Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:22:19Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:22:28Z jackdaniel: phoe: had you read carefully what I've said above you'd knew that I've said exactly that
2020-07-23T21:22:29Z dominic35 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:23:03Z jackdaniel: (that is, that and may be reordered)
2020-07-23T21:23:08Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:23:08Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:23:09Z dominic35 is now known as dominic34
2020-07-23T21:23:34Z phoe: geez
2020-07-23T21:23:38Z phoe goes to sleep in shame
2020-07-23T21:23:44Z phoe: you are right
2020-07-23T21:23:52Z jackdaniel: another question is whether putting result of compile in deftype is conforming
2020-07-23T21:24:38Z jackdaniel: because eval-when block is not a top-level form
2020-07-23T21:24:54Z jackdaniel: and I didn't bother to investigate answer to that question
2020-07-23T21:25:40Z phoe: my understanding is that COMPILE with a non-NIL name performs the equivalent of SETF FDEFINITION, so the function with the provided name is ensured to exist before the actual type expansion is returned
2020-07-23T21:26:37Z jackdaniel: it certainly /works/ under implementations I've checked; but that was not important enough for me to validate code conformance
2020-07-23T21:26:49Z phoe: so by the time the type expansion that includes (SATISFIES FOO-SEQ-P) is returned, #'FOO-SEQ-P always exists
2020-07-23T21:26:52Z phoe: that's my understanding
2020-07-23T21:26:54Z jackdaniel: as noted in the comment, it is merely for the convenience of the code reader
2020-07-23T21:27:10Z phoe actually runs off to sleep now
2020-07-23T21:27:17Z jackdaniel: I don't contest nor agree with your understanding
2020-07-23T21:27:20Z jackdaniel: good night
2020-07-23T21:28:00Z karlosz_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:29:45Z karlosz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:29:45Z karlosz_ is now known as karlosz
2020-07-23T21:31:34Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:33:34Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:34:02Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:34:21Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T21:38:19Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T21:39:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:39:34Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:39:54Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:44:22Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-23T21:45:46Z Codaraxis__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-23T21:51:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:51:23Z Frobozz_ is now known as Frobozz
2020-07-23T21:51:38Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:54:18Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T21:54:33Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-23T21:56:45Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T22:05:25Z diamondbond quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T22:07:41Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-23T22:07:51Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T22:08:37Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-23T22:09:16Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T22:22:14Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T22:23:37Z orivej_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-23T22:24:38Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T22:25:20Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-23T22:28:31Z adyatlov joined #lisp
2020-07-23T22:28:55Z dominic34 quit (Quit: dominic34)
2020-07-23T22:30:37Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T22:30:46Z adyatlov: Has anyone ever heard of a virtual machine implemented in Common Lisp? Say, blocks of opcodes being translated to (defun (...) ...) forms and passed to eval?
2020-07-23T22:31:38Z Xach: adyatlov: does the java virtual machine count?
2020-07-23T22:31:42Z wsinatra_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T22:31:44Z Xach: there's one of those in common lisp
2020-07-23T22:31:57Z adyatlov: An implementation the java vm in CL?
2020-07-23T22:31:59Z Xach: (it is pretty old though)
2020-07-23T22:32:04Z Xach: yes, a jvm in common lisp
2020-07-23T22:32:06Z adyatlov: Wow
2020-07-23T22:32:09Z adyatlov: Got a link?
2020-07-23T22:32:33Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T22:32:53Z Xach: https://lichteblau.blogspot.com/2007/08/cloak.html has some info
2020-07-23T22:32:57Z Xach: don't know if it is still able to be found
2020-07-23T22:33:08Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T22:33:10Z adyatlov: Was that project from Peter Seibel? I remember that he made gigamonkeys-data-thingy to parce JVM class files
2020-07-23T22:33:25Z Xach: nope, from david lichteblau
2020-07-23T22:33:37Z wsinatra_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T22:34:06Z adyatlov: "It works by translating .class files into Lisp sources and running them through SBCL's compiler."
2020-07-23T22:34:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T22:34:30Z adyatlov: That's one way of importing a nice Java library into CL haha
2020-07-23T22:34:33Z coltkirk: i like that peter seibel put his book up in simple html, it's not bad to read in eww
2020-07-23T22:35:00Z coltkirk: i need to try to use some of his projects for real life application
2020-07-23T22:35:24Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-23T22:35:43Z coltkirk: for starters organizing my MIDI files
2020-07-23T22:36:43Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-23T22:40:41Z adyatlov: https://www.cliki.net/Brainfuck+in+Lisp
2020-07-23T22:41:11Z adyatlov: "a brainfuck optimizing compiler" and virtual machine
2020-07-23T22:41:49Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-23T22:41:51Z adyatlov: Ibniz comes to mind as well
2020-07-23T22:57:15Z grewal quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-23T22:58:38Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-23T22:59:48Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:00:19Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:00:38Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T23:00:47Z lisper29 left #lisp
2020-07-23T23:00:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:01:07Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-23T23:01:48Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:05:41Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:10:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T23:10:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:10:54Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T23:25:08Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T23:26:36Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T23:27:23Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T23:29:06Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-23T23:29:07Z Frobozz quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-23T23:32:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-23T23:32:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:38:01Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:41:24Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-23T23:47:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-23T23:47:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:49:50Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:52:53Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-23T23:53:26Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:54:17Z diamondbond quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-23T23:58:34Z trocado joined #lisp
2020-07-23T23:59:54Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T00:02:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-24T00:03:54Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-24T00:05:20Z cjb quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-24T00:08:52Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-24T00:13:01Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-24T00:17:08Z Kabriel quit (Quit: .)
2020-07-24T00:18:18Z Kabriel joined #lisp
2020-07-24T00:19:30Z diamondbond quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T00:22:28Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-24T00:36:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T00:37:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T00:42:09Z ayuce left #lisp
2020-07-24T00:44:08Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-24T00:44:45Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-24T00:45:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T00:59:38Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:02:08Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-24T01:03:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:13:43Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:15:51Z sammich quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:15:51Z MrtnDk[m] quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:15:51Z camlriot42 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:15:58Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:16:31Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:16:43Z unl0ckd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:16:43Z infra_red[m] quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:17:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:18:24Z infra_red[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:18:39Z MrtnDk[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:19:00Z camlriot42 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:19:51Z sammich joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:21:53Z unl0ckd joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:25:21Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:30:12Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:31:23Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:31:30Z wsinatra_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-24T01:32:11Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:32:21Z unl0ckd quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:33:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:33:20Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:34:06Z jgkamat quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:43:10Z jgkamat joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:45:44Z unl0ckd joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:47:25Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T01:47:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T01:55:06Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T02:00:48Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-24T02:00:48Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T02:01:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T02:06:44Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-24T02:08:06Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T02:13:18Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T02:17:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T02:18:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T02:20:45Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-24T02:21:08Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-24T02:28:59Z elderK quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T02:29:17Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-24T02:36:14Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T02:36:57Z FennecCode joined #lisp
2020-07-24T02:44:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T02:44:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T02:54:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T02:56:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-24T02:58:21Z adyatlov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T03:00:57Z Alfr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T03:04:16Z Alfr quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T03:08:51Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-24T03:08:55Z range joined #lisp
2020-07-24T03:08:56Z range quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T03:11:36Z cranes quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-24T03:12:17Z justache quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T03:12:36Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-24T03:13:45Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-24T03:14:45Z cranes quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-24T03:18:44Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-24T03:19:45Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-24T03:21:08Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-24T03:21:29Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-24T03:24:44Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-24T03:28:21Z markasoftware: Is there a library for manipulating and accessing nested lists/trees? i.e, given an element of the tree, find its siblings
2020-07-24T03:28:25Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-24T03:28:35Z lavaflow quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T03:28:52Z markasoftware: cl-containers seems to have trees but it seems to not use lists to implement it
2020-07-24T03:31:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T03:37:40Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-24T03:39:35Z dvdmuckle quit (Quit: Bouncer Surgery)
2020-07-24T03:41:26Z dvdmuckle joined #lisp
2020-07-24T03:54:51Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-24T03:59:31Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-24T04:05:39Z beach: jmercouris: Well, a reader should always be implemented in Common Lisp, so that is not the main point of Eclector.  Instead, the main point is that it is highly configurable, and that it can produce output with information about source location.  For example, it can be used in a text editor to read the contents of a buffer of Common Lisp code, without interning the symbols as a reader would normally do.
2020-07-24T04:06:04Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-24T04:07:09Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-24T04:19:38Z libertyprime quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-24T04:21:31Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-24T04:22:50Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-24T04:28:59Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T04:40:06Z fengshaun quit (Quit: bibi!)
2020-07-24T04:41:02Z fengshaun joined #lisp
2020-07-24T04:58:50Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:00:51Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:03:54Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:08:16Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:09:52Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T05:15:22Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:21:28Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:22:50Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-24T05:23:08Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:30:48Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:38:24Z narimiran_ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:41:23Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T05:44:15Z brown121407 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:50:38Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T05:57:52Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T05:59:22Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T06:07:44Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-24T06:08:38Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-24T06:13:51Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-24T06:23:09Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-24T06:24:01Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-24T06:31:09Z igemnace quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-24T06:32:09Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T06:32:37Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T06:37:02Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-24T06:44:39Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T06:45:41Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T06:52:03Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-24T06:53:51Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T06:59:01Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-24T07:00:15Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:00:30Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T07:11:27Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-24T07:13:09Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:13:20Z tmpnode1 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:14:57Z ldb: good evening
2020-07-24T07:19:21Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:19:21Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-24T07:19:21Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:19:29Z phoe: hello
2020-07-24T07:20:31Z ldb: hello phoe.
2020-07-24T07:22:42Z ldb: it's the first time i know that it is `memoization', not memorization
2020-07-24T07:23:11Z ldb: and since the word was coin in 1986 you cannot find it in most dictionaries
2020-07-24T07:24:31Z cjb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-24T07:24:38Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:39:08Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:40:28Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:40:30Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T07:40:47Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:41:18Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:42:17Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T07:49:24Z vegai joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:55:59Z tutti joined #lisp
2020-07-24T07:56:45Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-24T07:57:20Z rogersm: ldb: I would say the word is much older than 86
2020-07-24T08:00:00Z ldb: it's from the word `memo', `memoize'
2020-07-24T08:00:21Z beach: ldb: I have had colleagues in theoretical computer science "correct" my papers.
2020-07-24T08:02:32Z beach: Wikipedia says 1968.
2020-07-24T08:03:16Z phoe: "68, 86, what's the difference?"
2020-07-24T08:03:18Z phoe: https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/commit/89a819f56fc055e1b7179cdaa067660132663423
2020-07-24T08:03:22Z ldb: yes, 1968 from a paper
2020-07-24T08:03:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T08:04:21Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:05:06Z edgar-rft: sbcl on github says amd is from 64? :-)
2020-07-24T08:05:30Z phoe: edgar-rft: nah, it's a sorta-related issue that #sbcl found funny some time ago
2020-07-24T08:07:52Z tmpnode1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T08:13:25Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-24T08:13:53Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:16:20Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:16:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T08:19:35Z ldb quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-24T08:21:06Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T08:24:38Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:25:47Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T08:26:30Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:36:38Z gko quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T08:36:46Z gko joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:40:23Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T08:40:42Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:45:58Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:47:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:47:44Z rogersm: that sbcl patch is cute x68 -> x86
2020-07-24T08:48:50Z phoe: rogersm: right?
2020-07-24T08:49:25Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-24T08:51:55Z rogersm: like using ^ for power in C
2020-07-24T08:55:09Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:57:08Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-24T08:58:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T08:59:20Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T08:59:56Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-24T09:00:23Z rogersm: beautiful & cute bug
2020-07-24T09:00:56Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T09:01:07Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:01:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:01:20Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T09:01:33Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T09:01:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:02:28Z ilshad joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:12:54Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T09:12:59Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T09:19:09Z technobean quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-24T09:24:53Z narimiran_ is now known as narimiran
2020-07-24T09:27:22Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:34:09Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:35:15Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-24T09:35:40Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:38:03Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T09:38:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T09:38:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:39:03Z vaporatorius__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T09:39:14Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:39:14Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-24T09:39:14Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:41:38Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T09:45:08Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T09:45:22Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:45:43Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-24T09:47:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:48:45Z tutti quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-24T09:50:05Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:52:57Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T09:53:44Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T09:54:14Z Alfr_ is now known as Alfr
2020-07-24T09:54:19Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:54:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T09:55:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T09:56:26Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T10:00:05Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:05:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T10:05:23Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:08:35Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:09:12Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T10:17:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T10:18:33Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:21:54Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:22:03Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:22:48Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T10:25:18Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:31:28Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:33:18Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T10:36:51Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:40:47Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T10:41:23Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:47:24Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:49:30Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T10:50:02Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:50:21Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T10:50:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:56:16Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-24T10:59:33Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-24T11:00:16Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T11:02:14Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T11:02:46Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T11:03:07Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-24T11:12:36Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-24T11:12:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T11:24:34Z vidak` joined #lisp
2020-07-24T11:25:54Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-24T11:27:09Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-24T11:29:29Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-24T11:29:53Z jprajzne quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T11:30:18Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-24T11:39:56Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T11:40:37Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-24T11:41:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T11:49:19Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-24T11:49:57Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-24T11:50:39Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-24T11:52:06Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-24T11:54:22Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T11:57:53Z terpri_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T11:58:15Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:01:07Z lukego: hey what's a neat way to define a set of flags as enum values e.g. a=1, b=2, c=4, d=8, e=16, etc?
2020-07-24T12:02:36Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:05:45Z heisig: lukego: A three line macro that expands into `(progn (defconstant a 1) (defconstant b 2) ...)?
2020-07-24T12:05:49Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:06:14Z lukego: yeah mostly wondering if I'm overlooking such a macro in e.g. serapeum
2020-07-24T12:06:15Z _death: could be a list of keywords
2020-07-24T12:06:25Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T12:06:50Z heisig: I also recently wrote a macro for working with bit fields: https://github.com/marcoheisig/Petalisp/blob/master/code/utilities/bitfield.lisp
2020-07-24T12:06:59Z heisig: But I never managed to use it myself.
2020-07-24T12:07:49Z heisig: (The powers of two look like you actually want to manipulate word bits).
2020-07-24T12:08:28Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:10:59Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T12:11:17Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-24T12:12:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:15:18Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:16:16Z lukego: _death: yeah but this is for a compact encoding of a chess board kind of data structure, currently a 2d array of nine-bit numbers, where each bit represents a feature of that tile. Just indulging in some overthinking partly to familiarize myself with the modern CL ecosystem e.g. serapeum.
2020-07-24T12:17:08Z lukego: it's fun trying new idioms to see how they fit e.g. (nest (dotimes (x width)) (dotimes (y height)) (foo x y)) is quite a novel style to me
2020-07-24T12:17:18Z _death: lukego: I see
2020-07-24T12:19:10Z _death: lukego: for that kind of thing, usually I just use plain defconstant.. possibly with hex notation
2020-07-24T12:22:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T12:23:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:24:29Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:25:51Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T12:26:15Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:30:02Z _death: this also comes up when you interface with foreign code.. then cffi:defcenum (with :allow-undeclared-values) is useful.. I guess it could also work for lisp code
2020-07-24T12:30:07Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-24T12:30:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:33:03Z _death: but for a data structure, I would choose defconstant
2020-07-24T12:34:43Z Lycurgus quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T12:35:21Z Cymew joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:36:03Z Cymew quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-24T12:37:28Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:39:24Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T12:39:51Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T12:40:24Z ilshad quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T12:40:24Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:40:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:45:30Z flip214: when I have a (DEFTYPE corners (w h) `(simple-array (integer 0 5) (,h ,w))), can I use that as a slot type in a structure when the dimensions are given by other slots?
2020-07-24T12:46:32Z phoe: flip214: dimensions are given by other slots? don't think so
2020-07-24T12:46:59Z phoe: if you use that in a struct, it will likely be upgraded into a T anyway
2020-07-24T12:47:22Z phoe: like, a reference to an array allocated elsewhere
2020-07-24T12:47:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T12:48:07Z phoe: otherwise the implementation would need to have variable-size structures of the same type, which I don't think is possible in current Lisp implementations
2020-07-24T12:48:17Z phoe: but I may be wrong, ask your favorite implementers
2020-07-24T12:50:54Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:51:18Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T12:52:27Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:52:27Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:52:48Z notzmv is now known as Guest93893
2020-07-24T12:53:22Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-24T12:53:44Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-24T13:00:05Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:00:11Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:06:51Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:09:43Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T13:13:04Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:14:05Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T13:14:13Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:14:22Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T13:14:23Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-24T13:18:25Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T13:20:29Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:23:41Z shenghi1 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:27:26Z random-nickname joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:27:38Z Guest93893 is now known as notzmv
2020-07-24T13:28:27Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T13:28:40Z shenghi1 quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-24T13:29:34Z shenghi1 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:30:45Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T13:32:39Z shenghi1 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-24T13:33:42Z shenghi quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1)
2020-07-24T13:36:01Z shenghi joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:37:47Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T13:37:58Z flip214: phoe: thanks
2020-07-24T13:38:03Z shenghi quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-24T13:38:34Z flip214: can I get the number of characters printed to an output stream since the last newline? Like the difference between ~% and ~&?
2020-07-24T13:39:23Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:42:58Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:42:58Z shenghi joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:44:43Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:45:29Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T13:45:32Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:46:28Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:49:38Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T13:49:58Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T13:51:25Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T13:52:50Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T13:52:55Z shenghi1 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:53:32Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T13:55:40Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-24T13:56:23Z shenghi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-24T14:02:26Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T14:04:17Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:04:37Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T14:05:02Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-24T14:08:57Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:09:24Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:09:57Z shenghi1 quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-24T14:10:06Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T14:11:25Z shenghi joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:17:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:23:57Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:25:24Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T14:25:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:27:11Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-24T14:30:17Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:30:59Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:34:03Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:35:53Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T14:36:35Z phoe: flip214: don't know if that's achievable with plain FORMAT
2020-07-24T14:39:13Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:40:41Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-24T14:47:47Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:52:03Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-24T14:52:04Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:55:59Z flip214: phoe: no, I'm looking for a stream-accessor
2020-07-24T14:58:49Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-24T14:59:07Z phoe: flip214: might be hard without a Gray stream
2020-07-24T15:01:39Z bsd4me quit (Quit: gotta go)
2020-07-24T15:02:46Z technobean quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-24T15:03:24Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:04:35Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T15:04:47Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:04:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:07:46Z technobean quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-24T15:08:24Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:14:06Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:17:08Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T15:17:21Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:17:30Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:17:30Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-24T15:17:30Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:17:35Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:19:45Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T15:24:13Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T15:24:26Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:24:30Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:28:29Z lukego: I'm in the honeymoon period with the NEST macro :)
2020-07-24T15:38:19Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:39:37Z Alfr: Hi. Is there some immutable (di)graph implementation available out there? Otherwise I'm inclined to to write one based on cl-hamt for the heavy lifting.
2020-07-24T15:40:18Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:41:19Z beach: Alfr: Graphs are problematic because the representation depends a lot on the kind of algorithms you would like to apply to it.  That is why there are not very many libraries like that, and if you find one, it is unlikely to fit your needs.
2020-07-24T15:41:44Z vaporatorius__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T15:41:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T15:41:53Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:42:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:42:26Z beach: Alfr: I often draw the parallel with sets.  You will not find an implementation of sets that will fit all the needs people have.  That's why we have stacks, queues, editable sequences, concatenable queues, union-find sets, etc.
2020-07-24T15:43:55Z beach: Alfr: For example, some applications need for a vertex to be part of more than one graph simultaneously.  That requirement excludes any way of attaching the arcs to the vertex.
2020-07-24T15:44:34Z Alfr: beach, for the last part, can you read my mind? xD
2020-07-24T15:44:42Z beach: Heh!
2020-07-24T15:45:10Z beach: Some applications need to attach information to arcs, so then having a list of adjacent vertices in each vertex is excluded.  Etc, etc, etc.
2020-07-24T15:45:34Z tristero quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-24T15:45:55Z Alfr: beach, guess I'll just go write it soonish and will probably make it available, should it proves its worth for my little project.
2020-07-24T15:46:05Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T15:46:06Z mfiano: There are a variety of persistent/immutable data structures available for CL already, but I do not know of any directed graphs (apart from some tree implementations).
2020-07-24T15:46:21Z beach: Alfr: Good plan.
2020-07-24T15:46:42Z nitrix is now known as nitric_oxide
2020-07-24T15:46:44Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:46:48Z nitric_oxide is now known as nitrix
2020-07-24T15:47:07Z mfiano: https://github.com/ndantam/sycamore comes to mind. May be a good start, or a place to send a PR rather than making it more difficult to find as a new library.
2020-07-24T15:47:11Z beach: mfiano: And one would have to have a description that includes the algorithms that can be efficiently supported, just as with my example with sets.
2020-07-24T15:47:14Z Alfr: beach, and thank you for the quick response.
2020-07-24T15:47:18Z beach: Sure.
2020-07-24T15:47:30Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:47:54Z aurelius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T15:48:55Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T15:54:11Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T15:54:34Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T15:56:36Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-24T15:57:28Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T16:00:56Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-24T16:01:45Z beach: mfiano: A change like the one that Alfr seems to need, i.e., making it possible for a vertex to be in more than one graph simultaneously, is not going to be easy to accomplish with a PR.  I am betting it involves a complete redesign of the data structure.
2020-07-24T16:01:46Z beach: Another way of putting it is that a digraph is not an abstract data type, because there is not a widely agreed-upon set of operations for such a thing.
2020-07-24T16:02:47Z mfiano: It does, and a HAMT is a way to do that.
2020-07-24T16:02:56Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T16:03:29Z beach: Great!
2020-07-24T16:06:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T16:09:16Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T16:10:03Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T16:19:05Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T16:19:24Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T16:26:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T16:26:13Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T16:32:32Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T16:37:11Z red-dot quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T16:37:32Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-24T16:40:19Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T16:44:28Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T16:45:05Z ghard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T16:49:06Z Harag: is there a difference in the behaviour of :use in in-package and defpackage?
2020-07-24T16:49:16Z phoe: Harag: hold on a second
2020-07-24T16:49:19Z phoe: :USE in IN-PACKAGE?
2020-07-24T16:49:24Z phoe: wat
2020-07-24T16:50:01Z Harag: (in-package "XP" :use '("LISP"))
2020-07-24T16:50:10Z phoe: clhs in-package
2020-07-24T16:50:10Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_in_pkg.htm
2020-07-24T16:50:19Z phoe: this is not standard Common Lisp
2020-07-24T16:50:45Z Harag: found this in XP - Pretty printing library, it is from 1991
2020-07-24T16:50:51Z phoe: it seems that you encountered an old IN-PACKAGE from CLtL1 era
2020-07-24T16:50:52Z Harag: it compiles fine
2020-07-24T16:51:51Z phoe: then you have an implementation that contains backwards compatibility for CLtL1 IN-PACKAGE
2020-07-24T16:52:00Z phoe: it's not standard ANSI CL though.
2020-07-24T16:52:13Z Harag: ok well sbcl does not seem to mind
2020-07-24T16:53:08Z phoe: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1967#1967
2020-07-24T16:53:09Z phoe: mine complains
2020-07-24T16:53:12Z Harag: nope I was wrong it complains
2020-07-24T16:53:51Z Harag: the main code file did not have the :use and that compiles fine
2020-07-24T16:54:33Z Harag: and package works as advertized... really mind blowing
2020-07-24T16:55:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T16:56:55Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:02:59Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T17:03:10Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:03:22Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T17:05:04Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:09:01Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:09:22Z technobean quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.2))
2020-07-24T17:11:27Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-24T17:13:32Z _death: Harag: XP, with some changes, became part of Common Lisp
2020-07-24T17:16:04Z Fare: XP ?
2020-07-24T17:16:23Z _death: Waters's pretty printer
2020-07-24T17:16:38Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:16:44Z Fare: oh
2020-07-24T17:18:02Z jackdaniel: when I see XP I read either "windows xp" or "extereme programming" (the one with plenty of tests before writing the actual software)
2020-07-24T17:23:30Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T17:23:36Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:25:45Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:25:46Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-24T17:25:46Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:28:58Z zigpaw quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-07-24T17:29:15Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:30:48Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:31:54Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:32:35Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T17:32:35Z v88m quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T17:33:52Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T17:34:42Z trubi joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:37:01Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:41:42Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:41:45Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T17:44:18Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T17:48:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T17:48:57Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T17:51:05Z aeth: I'm not sure about Windows XP, but software with plenty of tests hasn't become part of Common Lisp yet ;-)
2020-07-24T17:51:16Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T17:52:47Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-24T17:56:07Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-24T18:04:05Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-24T18:10:24Z Alfr: On tests, what's a nice CL test framework anyway? Looking for something that would let me group tests and skip tests/groups of tests when some other test fails; not really interested in tests failing because I just broke some dependency.
2020-07-24T18:10:55Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-24T18:11:16Z rogersm quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-24T18:14:29Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T18:17:54Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-24T18:23:26Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T18:24:40Z MichaelRaskin joined #lisp
2020-07-24T18:26:10Z Harag: Alfr: I found this old paper (1991) tonight on the subject of test framework for cl if that kind of thing floats your boat I can post the link
2020-07-24T18:28:23Z Harag: https://www.merl.com/publications/docs/TR91-04.pdf
2020-07-24T18:29:56Z Alfr: Harag, I surely like to read it, but I'm not in such dire need to write one up. Just wondered if s.o. here knows one that'd satisfy the above, so that I could migrate away from my personal hackish setup.
2020-07-24T18:31:05Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T18:31:44Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T18:32:08Z Alfr: Harag, and thanks for the link.
2020-07-24T18:32:09Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T18:35:00Z jackdaniel: Alfr: fiveam tests have :depends-on clause
2020-07-24T18:35:11Z jackdaniel: I'm not sure about whole suites
2020-07-24T18:35:47Z Harag: the ftp server from that paper still exists but I cant find the code on there any more
2020-07-24T18:36:19Z fe[nl]ix: in my experience tracking this kind of dependency between tests is not worth it
2020-07-24T18:37:02Z Harag: found the source for that paper https://www.cliki.net/RT
2020-07-24T18:37:20Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T18:37:26Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-24T18:38:42Z Alfr: jackdaniel, I'll have a look.
2020-07-24T18:42:40Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T18:42:58Z Alfr: fe[nl]ix, for most of the cases dependencies really don't help, but sometimes it helps identifying the real culprit by omitting the noise.
2020-07-24T18:44:04Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-24T18:47:11Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-24T18:52:45Z Alfr: Harag, at first glance they really describe RT and give some description of its design, that's more documentation than I've ever expected to see for any CL package. :D
2020-07-24T18:53:02Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-24T18:54:04Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-24T18:54:19Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-24T18:55:39Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T19:04:03Z Harag: Alfr: if you think that is a lot of documentation then have a look at this for the same author's pretty printer, I am working on bringing it back to life at this very moment
2020-07-24T19:04:04Z Harag: https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/6503/AIM-1102.pdf
2020-07-24T19:07:29Z taof joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:07:36Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-24T19:08:31Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:08:31Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-24T19:08:32Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:09:51Z Alfr: Harag, 7 pages (admittedly about half of it are code listings) is still more than some other projects have.
2020-07-24T19:10:11Z zacts joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:10:56Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:19:47Z zacts quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-24T19:22:02Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:25:26Z Harag: Alfr: yeah, its hard work to do documentation ;) ... I would settle for expanded/porper examples
2020-07-24T19:25:36Z Harag: proper
2020-07-24T19:25:45Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-24T19:27:29Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-24T19:27:35Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:31:23Z Ven`` joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:31:32Z equwal quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-24T19:31:42Z clothespin_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-24T19:33:37Z timack joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:39:50Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:46:00Z aaaaaa left #lisp
2020-07-24T19:46:36Z Harag: what is the  that shows up in some source code like sbcl, is it supose to be some line break?
2020-07-24T19:46:42Z TwoNotes: Can anyone point me to an example of how to pass a POINTER to an INT to a FOREIGN function?  I am using the CFFI library on SBCL.  I know about 'with-foreign-object' to create the INT, but not the creation of the pointer TO it.
2020-07-24T19:52:32Z luis: TwoNotes: what's the type definition of the foreign function?
2020-07-24T19:52:43Z TwoNotes: Haraq, 000C would be a form-feed.
2020-07-24T19:52:53Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T19:53:16Z TwoNotes: luis, in C it says "int *foo"
2020-07-24T19:53:38Z luis: TwoNotes: with-foreign-object will give a pointer to a newly allocated int, so that's all you need.
2020-07-24T19:53:57Z TwoNotes: And I would declare it as :POINTER :INT" in the defcfun?
2020-07-24T19:54:06Z luis: yes
2020-07-24T19:54:10Z TwoNotes: ty
2020-07-24T19:54:59Z MetaYan: Harag: Page break. To beautify program listings when they were actually printed. https://lukego.github.io/blog/2012/10/24/readable-programs/
2020-07-24T19:58:53Z timack quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T19:59:43Z Harag: kewl thanx that is interesting
2020-07-24T20:00:31Z gareppa joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:01:21Z Harag: some how that reminded me of writing a cobol program on a bunch of special sheets and giving them to the terminal operator to capture... then waiting around a couple of hours to get the results back
2020-07-24T20:03:57Z TwoNotes: Those were the days.  Faster to punch them yourself.  Especially if you knew how to prepare the tab-drum control card.
2020-07-24T20:04:58Z TwoNotes: My first exposure to LISP was back in those days, reading McCarthy's "Lisp 1.5" book.
2020-07-24T20:07:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:08:20Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:08:26Z Harag: I wish I was exposed to lisp then, I only found lisp much later in life
2020-07-24T20:08:43Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:08:45Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:09:16Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-24T20:09:17Z gareppa quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T20:14:45Z wwer545 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:15:11Z wwer545 left #lisp
2020-07-24T20:16:45Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-24T20:17:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:24:42Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:25:02Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T20:27:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:27:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:28:49Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:28:55Z seok: what is #\ZERO_WIDTH_NO-BREAK_SPACE character?
2020-07-24T20:29:01Z seok: It doesn't get trimmed with str:trim
2020-07-24T20:33:43Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:35:08Z ukari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:36:00Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:36:48Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:38:28Z aeth: My first guess would've been &nbsp; because of how common that is in HTML (to prevent a break) but that's not zero-width and is #xA0 while (format t "#x~X~%" (char-code #\ZERO_WIDTH_NO-BREAK_SPACE)) in SBCL is #xFEFF
2020-07-24T20:39:21Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:39:26Z aeth: And in SBCL (sb-unicode:whitespace-p #\ZERO_WIDTH_NO-BREAK_SPACE) => NIL so even if that library was Unicode aware it wouldn't be detected as whitespace.
2020-07-24T20:40:18Z aeth: seok: ah, it doubles as the "byte order mark" so that's probably what it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-breaking_space#Encodings
2020-07-24T20:40:25Z aeth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_order_mark
2020-07-24T20:43:22Z brown121407 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T20:44:44Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:45:14Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:45:54Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:48:18Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:48:48Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:48:53Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-24T20:51:05Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:52:25Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:52:43Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T20:53:55Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T20:54:05Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:03:38Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T21:04:27Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:05:02Z APic quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T21:06:18Z APic joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:07:18Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:07:19Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-24T21:07:19Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:16:42Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T21:17:42Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:22:46Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T21:23:13Z seok: aeth thx ive never heard of this
2020-07-24T21:24:48Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:26:11Z ghard joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:30:23Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Quit: Пока, мир.)
2020-07-24T21:30:35Z seok: changing encoding with notepad++ fixed it
2020-07-24T21:30:51Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:35:29Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T21:41:10Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T21:42:07Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:46:00Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T21:48:52Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-24T21:49:55Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:53:46Z xkapastel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-24T21:56:41Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-24T21:57:07Z luis quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-07-24T21:57:15Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:57:56Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:59:38Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-24T21:59:53Z theBlack1ragon joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:00:05Z luis joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:03:22Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T22:03:22Z theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon
2020-07-24T22:04:05Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T22:05:32Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:09:53Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:16:05Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T22:16:10Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T22:17:22Z OpenZen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T22:17:38Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:20:08Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:20:17Z OpenZen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T22:20:34Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:20:35Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:21:08Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T22:21:26Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:24:45Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T22:26:50Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-24T22:31:59Z ayuce` joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:33:54Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:34:52Z markasoftware: why would I want to do (&rest (a &optional b)) instead of (a &optional b) ?
2020-07-24T22:35:25Z ayuce quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T22:40:37Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-24T22:41:09Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:42:08Z random-nickname is now known as random-nick
2020-07-24T22:46:46Z Harag: ... you know that sick feeling a couple of hours into something that you have bitten of to much to to chew but you are to stuborn to give up...
2020-07-24T22:46:52Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:51:45Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T22:54:12Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T22:54:44Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T22:55:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-24T22:55:35Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T23:01:04Z Harag: any format guru's in the house... the following goes into what looks like an endless loop, is it supose to (format t "~{~a~3@*~^,~a~^,~}." (QUOTE (1 2 3 4 5 6)))
2020-07-24T23:03:05Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T23:03:24Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-24T23:05:57Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-24T23:07:15Z ayuce` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-24T23:10:22Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-24T23:16:52Z _death: ~3@* means to go to the fourth element
2020-07-24T23:17:43Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-24T23:17:47Z ghard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T23:20:06Z _death: it is not relative to the current position in the list, just to the list itself.. so 1,4,5,4,5,...
2020-07-24T23:22:27Z _death: compare (format t "~{~a~^~3*~^,~a~^,~}." '(1 2 3 4 5 6))
2020-07-24T23:25:12Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T23:26:12Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-24T23:30:38Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-24T23:31:24Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-24T23:32:44Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-24T23:33:50Z Harag: _death: so is the short answer that you would expect that format to go on endlessly?
2020-07-24T23:34:09Z Harag: I am not even close to understanding either
2020-07-24T23:34:30Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-24T23:35:31Z Harag: I just need to know if it is possible to get the format into a endless or near endless loop.
2020-07-24T23:37:27Z Harag: I am trying to revive XP pretty printer and there are about 600 tests, its gonna take me a life time to understand them all, I am just trying to get them to fail a bit more grace fully if the test is expecting the impossible
2020-07-24T23:37:59Z _death: yes, it's possible.. it's a goto.. I'm not sure why you're trying to revive XP, as I already said it became part of CL
2020-07-24T23:38:33Z Harag: its to use it out side of normal cl
2020-07-24T23:38:58Z _death: what do you mean?
2020-07-24T23:40:13Z _death: I suppose it could be useful to change to code so that the interface will resemble the standard interface, and make a portable pretty printer
2020-07-24T23:42:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T23:43:03Z Harag: it exposes some inner workings that the implementations do not give access to override/change
2020-07-24T23:43:32Z Harag: and beach would love a portable pretty printer as well I am sure
2020-07-24T23:44:32Z _death: right
2020-07-24T23:44:39Z Harag: for example if I want to change how a struct is printed readably I cant
2020-07-24T23:44:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-24T23:44:53Z Harag: in normal cl
2020-07-24T23:44:55Z _death: you can..
2020-07-24T23:45:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-24T23:45:18Z Harag: by overriding print-object?
2020-07-24T23:46:07Z _death: well, defstruct has a :print-function option.. or if you want to use the pretty printer, there's set-pprint-dispatch
2020-07-24T23:46:45Z Harag: yeah found out about set-print-dispatch from the XP code
2020-07-24T23:47:27Z Harag: does hashtable and the likes also have such a :print-function?
2020-07-24T23:47:39Z _death: one useful slime patch I have is https://github.com/death/slime/commit/ee468da21e15030774e3638f511bf8d7d2627427
2020-07-24T23:48:52Z _death: set-pprint-dispatch accepts a type specifier, so you can dispatch on hash-table.. or even a particular hash-table using `(eql ,the-hash-table)
2020-07-24T23:49:35Z Harag: ok kewl
2020-07-24T23:50:27Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-24T23:51:17Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-24T23:52:06Z Harag: so is there a doc/paper for "the standard interface" or is it where ever it ended up in the spec?
2020-07-24T23:52:49Z _death: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/22_b.htm
2020-07-24T23:53:19Z _death: there's also the pre-standard CLtL2 appendix
2020-07-24T23:53:39Z _death: it's basically the same document you have in XP but updated
2020-07-24T23:55:12Z Harag: ok thanx
2020-07-24T23:55:26Z _death: hmm.. wrong about CLtL2 appendix.. I guess the XP document is the most recent pre-standard version
2020-07-24T23:56:28Z _death: clhs refers to it in 22.2.3
2020-07-24T23:57:23Z Harag: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss270_w.htm
2020-07-24T23:57:24Z _death: there are also Lisp Pointers articles by Waters demonstrating pretty-printing.. and then there are the older systems (gprint etc.)
2020-07-24T23:59:23Z _death: sbcl code also has many examples of pretty-printing.. sometimes it's easy to take a piece from sbcl and modify it for your own needs
2020-07-24T23:59:30Z Ven`` quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-25T00:00:05Z _death: I've done so here https://adeht.org/casts/new-project.html
2020-07-25T00:00:09Z Harag: the one thing that did not make the cut for the standard was the format read macro # as far as I can see or did it just become another char
2020-07-25T00:00:27Z Harag: yeah I had a look at sbcl code before I found XP
2020-07-25T00:00:57Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-25T00:01:13Z Harag: maybe now that I worked through the xp code the sbcl code will make more sense
2020-07-25T00:01:32Z _death: do you mean #" ?
2020-07-25T00:02:41Z Harag: yes
2020-07-25T00:03:56Z _death: long ago, #" was syntax for bit vectors.. creatures like #"101010" walked the earth.. then Pitman proposed a change
2020-07-25T00:04:57Z _death: here's a small writeup https://gist.github.com/death/e9f975bb9ed13f43fd7653c9429e649c
2020-07-25T00:06:49Z Harag: cl history is fascinating
2020-07-25T00:07:06Z _death: https://cl-su-ai.cddddr.org/msg03341.html
2020-07-25T00:07:43Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-25T00:08:23Z Harag: I am seriously going to have to re-organize my bookmarks soon, and take a year or two's sabatical to read and grok it all
2020-07-25T00:09:23Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T00:09:52Z _death: if you're using emacs and gnus, I recently put up a gnus-friendly-archives repository for easy reading
2020-07-25T00:10:37Z Harag: yes using emacs and ubuntu
2020-07-25T00:12:15Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T00:12:41Z Harag: mmm gnus does not eql linux
2020-07-25T00:13:25Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T00:13:27Z _death: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/
2020-07-25T00:14:54Z Harag: aaah
2020-07-25T00:16:02Z Harag: will try it, but I use a colemak and trying to use some of the emacs packages becomes a night mare you have to redo all the key bindings to not break your fingers
2020-07-25T00:16:08Z trubi left #lisp
2020-07-25T00:16:14Z Harag: -a
2020-07-25T00:17:43Z _death: basic operation in gnus is easy, but it does have lots of strange keybindings
2020-07-25T00:20:00Z _death: also, a local leafnode server and fetchmail is great as it makes remote fetching from gnus unnecessary
2020-07-25T00:21:24Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T00:21:28Z Harag: lol at the "Emacs for Heathens"
2020-07-25T00:31:25Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T00:31:56Z Harag: what is the link to that archives repo?
2020-07-25T00:32:12Z _death: https://github.com/death/gnus-friendly-archives
2020-07-25T00:32:35Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T00:38:37Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T00:39:21Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-25T00:43:25Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-25T00:49:14Z Harag: _death: thanx for the advice and links, will spend some time trying out set-pprint-dispatch, it should be enough for now.
2020-07-25T00:51:12Z _death: np.. time to sleep, night
2020-07-25T00:51:38Z Harag: yeah same her good night
2020-07-25T01:05:52Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T01:16:48Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T01:17:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T01:29:45Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T01:30:29Z liberliver1 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T01:30:39Z torbo` joined #lisp
2020-07-25T01:30:55Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T01:31:43Z Kaisyu72 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T01:33:23Z liberliver quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T01:33:23Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T01:33:23Z Kaisyu7 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T01:33:23Z liberliver1 is now known as liberliver
2020-07-25T01:35:14Z seok: came across an odd behaviour. (unless possible-hash (setf x (gethash key possible-hash)) signals asserted value error
2020-07-25T01:35:21Z seok: while changing unless to if does not
2020-07-25T01:35:35Z seok: possible hash is either a hash or nil
2020-07-25T01:40:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T01:40:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T01:47:17Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T01:49:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T01:49:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T01:50:14Z Alfr: seok, possible-hash has to be a hash-table. gethash tries to retrieve the value associated with key.
2020-07-25T01:50:33Z seok: Alfr only when unless clause in true
2020-07-25T01:50:45Z seok: I switched unless to if and it works fine
2020-07-25T01:54:54Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-25T01:55:04Z Alfr: seok, oh ... yeah. for possible-hash being nil, unless will execute its body, so all is well, because then gethash gets nil for the hash-table and barfs.
2020-07-25T01:55:48Z seok: oh does unless not work like y
2020-07-25T01:55:50Z seok: if?
2020-07-25T01:56:07Z Alfr: seok, you're looking for "when".
2020-07-25T01:56:11Z seok: ah
2020-07-25T01:56:23Z seok: wait did I just do that?
2020-07-25T01:56:40Z seok: silly mistake
2020-07-25T01:56:54Z seok: you're right
2020-07-25T01:57:31Z Alfr: We all should sleep occasionally.
2020-07-25T02:08:00Z liberliver quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:00Z igemnace quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:00Z MindForeverVoyag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:00Z theBlackDragon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:00Z APic quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:00Z kaftejiman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:00Z red-dot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:00Z bitmapper quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:00Z mankaev quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z bhartrihari quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z Balooga quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z bytesighs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z SomeB quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z housel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z cosimone quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z Oladon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z bsd4me quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z MichaelRaskin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z shenghi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z jw4 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z justache quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z nullheroes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z datajerk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z elflng quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z hiroaki quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z wooden quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z micro quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z flazh1 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z zaquest quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z narendraj9 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z mgsk- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z minion quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z luna_is_here quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z shka_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z eta quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z lad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z hdasch quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z TMA quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z tristero quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z trocado quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z natter quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z Khisanth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z nckx quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z vegai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z Xach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z ChoHag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z nightfly_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z jxy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z ozzloy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z trn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:01Z c_nix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z taof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z stux|RC quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z pok quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z solrize_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z scymtym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z bacterio quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z SAL9000 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z vert2_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z jbgg_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z jurov_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z Guest90000 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z ntr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z bkst quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z nmg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z saturn2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z loke quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z AdmiralBumbleBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z aeth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z gabot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z OMGOMG quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z bonz060 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z guaqua quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z beach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z thonkpod quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z seisatsu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z easye quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z entel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z physpi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z mgsk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z splittist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z l1x quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z contrapunctus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z tfb quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z drmeister quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z jasom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z gaze__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z CEnnis91 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z sgithens quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z rvirding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z jmercouris quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z travv0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z drot_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z HiRE quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:02Z Yardanico quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z ecraven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z ioa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z creat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z otwieracz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z beaky quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z gingerale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z Odin- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z SumoSud0- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z chrpape quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z lavaflow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z hhdave quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z arpunk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z gabiruh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z Archenoth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z gigetoo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z davsebamse quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z tychoish quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z srji_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z uplime quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z dilated_dinosaur quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z xi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z alandipert quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z phadthai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z malm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z lottaquestions quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z null_ptr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z idxu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z tessier quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z azrazalea quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z natj212 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z tomaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z z0d quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z lieven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z esotericalgo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:03Z LdBeth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:04Z kelamir[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:04Z even4void[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:04Z userself quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:04Z zagura quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:04Z swflint quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:04Z |3b| quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:04Z camlriot42 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:04Z q-u-a-n2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z niceplace quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z XachX quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z billstclair quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z zymurgy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z cg505 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z xantoz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z orivej quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z jprajzne quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z Necktwi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z epony quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z vhost- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z aindilis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z sukaeto quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z hvxgr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z mbrumlow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z ssake quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z nydel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z yang quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z nopf_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z funnel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z dlowe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z vsync quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z Firedancer_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z space_otter quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z OpenZen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z Bourne quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z X-Scale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z grewal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z terpri_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z cranes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z himmAllRight quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:05Z joast quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z Tordek quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z d4ryus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z leo_song quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z kapil_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z Lord_Nightmare quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z nullman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z penguwin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z kbtr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z cdegroot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z kingcons quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z wigust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z Lycurgus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z Lord_of_Life quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z luis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z notzmv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z vaporatorius quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z johnjay quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z thecoffemaker quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z quazimodo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z lansiir quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z Blukunfando quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z simplegauss quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z ark quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z getha quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z catern quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z em-bee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z logicmoo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z troydm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z jibanes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z Ankhers quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z grumble quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z cpape quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z snits quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z grobe0ba quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z xlei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z White_Flame quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z mtd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z r3x5- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z cracauer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z astronavt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z [df] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z payphone quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z EvW1 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z xkapastel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z jonatack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z kopiyka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:06Z coltkirk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z devrtz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z fe[nl]ix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z Blkt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z ffwacom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z dxtr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z doublex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z avicenna quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z rme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z chewbranca quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z yottabyte quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z terrorjack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z cpt_nemo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z Kaisyu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z lispyone_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z jlpeters quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z voidlily_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z HDurer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z mgr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z xristos quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z shinohai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z larme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z interruptinuse quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z spal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z phoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z jackhill quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z kim\ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z eschatologist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z rabuf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z felideon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z CommanderViral quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z hiredman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z sammich quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z infra_red[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z Gnuxie[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z katco quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z dyelar quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z jonathanschlink quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z fowlduck quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:07Z RagnarDanneskjol quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z moon-child quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z emacsomancer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z dale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z knobo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z dvdmuckle quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z mrcom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z froggey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z Harag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z jackdaniel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z rixard_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z DGASAU quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z matijja quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z cmatei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z ult quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z cybercafe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z Ziemas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z nitrix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z Mandus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z eagleflo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z hjudt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z dim quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z cods quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z justinmcp quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z zigpaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z ahungry quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z mindCrime quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z Jesin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z v88m quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z akoana quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z vidak` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z fengshaun quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z Alfr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z _whitelogger quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z elderK quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z jgkamat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z heredoc quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z rumpelszn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z Grue`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z Demosthenex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z Kaisyu72 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:08Z torbo` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z Kabriel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z stepnem quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z zge quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z sveit quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z femi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z glamas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z Inoperable quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z cyraxjoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z z3t0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z spacebat2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z madand quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z kini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z jfb4_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z GreaseMonkey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z lowryder quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z trittweiler quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z add^_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z brass quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z unl0ckd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z jello_pudding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z shrysr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z yonkunas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z mjl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z Grauwolf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z dnm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:09Z lukego quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z Ekho quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z winny quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z markasoftware quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z kilimanjaro quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z mfiano quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z MrtnDk[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z liamz[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z edgar-rft quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z kinope quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z pent quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z cross quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z gendl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z conjunctive quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z banjiewen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z p_l quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z selwyn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z shymega quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z luckless_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z nirved quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z madage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z seok quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z FennecCode quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z stylewarning quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z fountainpen[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z cairn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z mpontillo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z gjnoonan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z parisienne___ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z jsatk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z jerme_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z hydan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:10Z abbe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:08:11Z stux|RC-only quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z esotericalgo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z lieven joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z z0d joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z tomaw joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z natj212 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z azrazalea joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z ck_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z tessier joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z idxu joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z null_ptr joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z lottaquestions joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z malm joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z phadthai joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z alandipert joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z xi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z srji_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z tychoish joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z uplime joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z gabiruh joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z arpunk joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z hhdave joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z TMA joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z eta joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z mgsk- joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z narendraj9 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z flazh1 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z micro joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z wooden joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z shenghi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z MichaelRaskin joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z bjorkintosh joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z akkad joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z ski joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z vhost- joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z sukaeto joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z hvxgr joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z mbrumlow joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z ssake joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z nydel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z |3b| joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z swflint joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z zagura joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z yang joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z nopf_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z funnel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z Firedancer_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z vsync joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:23Z dlowe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:28Z q-u-a-n2 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:28Z niceplace joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:28Z XachX joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:28Z billstclair joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:28Z zymurgy joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:28Z cg505 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:28Z xantoz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z c_nix joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z trn joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jxy joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z nightfly_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z ChoHag joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Xach joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z nckx joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z natter joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z trocado joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z vegai joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z APic joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z housel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z SomeB joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z copec joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z bytesighs joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Balooga joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z bacterio joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Kaisyu72 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z luis joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z vidak` joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z fengshaun joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z dvdmuckle joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Alfr joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z FennecCode joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jgkamat joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Kabriel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z stylewarning joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z johnjay joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z luckless_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z joast joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z zge joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z thecoffemaker joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Tordek joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z lansiir joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z asedeno joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z coltkirk joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z kapil_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z simplegauss joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z sveit joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z flip214 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z femi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z moon-child joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z dyelar joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jello_pudding joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z devrtz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z ark joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jonathanschlink joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z getha joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z shrysr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z em-bee joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z logicmoo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z rixard_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Blkt joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z troydm joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z glamas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z fowlduck joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z yonkunas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z RagnarDanneskjol joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z ffwacom joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z mjl joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z wigust joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z mood joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z cdegroot joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z kbtr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z kingcons joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z penguwin joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Ankhers joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Inoperable joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z matijja joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Grauwolf joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z grumble joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z dxtr joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z lonjil joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z dnm joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z lukego joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z cpape joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z snits joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z barjavel.freenode.net has set mode +o fe[nl]ix
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z doublex joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Ekho joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z winny joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z avicenna joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z rme joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z markasoftware joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z yottabyte joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z pent joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z gjnoonan joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z cross joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z parisienne___ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z payphone joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z [df] joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z astronavt joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z cracauer joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z r3x5- joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z mtd joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z White_Flame joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z _death joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z xlei joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z grobe0ba joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jdz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z johs joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z hiredman joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z CommanderViral joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z felideon joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z rabuf joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z kim\ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jackhill joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z phoe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z spal joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z interruptinuse joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z larme joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z shinohai joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z xristos joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z mgr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z HDurer joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z voidlily_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jlpeters joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z lispyone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z knobo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z dale joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z cods joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z dim joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z hjudt joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z eagleflo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Mandus joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z nitrix joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Ziemas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z cybercafe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z ult joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z cmatei joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jsatk joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Demosthenex joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z Grue`` joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z rumpelszn joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z heredoc joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z brass joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z add^_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z trittweiler joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z lowryder joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z GreaseMonkey joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jfb4_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z kini joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z madand joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z spacebat2 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z z3t0 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z jerme_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z conjunctive joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z p_l joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z hydan joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z selwyn joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z shymega joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z mfiano joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:13:39Z abbe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z beach joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z thonkpod joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z seisatsu joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z physpi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z mgsk joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z splittist joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z l1x joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z tfb joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z drmeister joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z jasom joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z gaze__ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z sgithens joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z rvirding joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z jmercouris joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z travv0 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z drot_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z HiRE joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z Yardanico joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z ecraven joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z ioa joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z creat joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z otwieracz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z beaky joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z gingerale joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z Odin- joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z SumoSud0- joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z antoszka joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:03Z chrpape joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z taof joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z gko joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z pok joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z solrize_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z vert2_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z jbgg_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z jurov_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z aap joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z Guest90000 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z ntr joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z bkst joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z nmg joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z saturn2 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z loke joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z AdmiralBumbleBee joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z aeth joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z gabot joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z OMGOMG joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z bonz060 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:15Z guaqua joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:14:24Z cosimone quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z taof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z stux|RC quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z pok quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z solrize_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z scymtym quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z SAL9000 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z vert2_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z jbgg_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z jurov_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z Guest90000 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z ntr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z bkst quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z nmg quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z saturn2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z loke quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z AdmiralBumbleBee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z aeth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z gabot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:32Z OMGOMG quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z bonz060 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z guaqua quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z beach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z thonkpod quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z seisatsu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z easye quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z physpi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z mgsk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z splittist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z l1x quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z contrapunctus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z tfb quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z drmeister quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z jasom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z gaze__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z CEnnis91 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z sgithens quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z rvirding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z jmercouris quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z travv0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z drot_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z HiRE quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z Yardanico quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z ecraven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z ioa quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z creat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z otwieracz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z beaky quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z gingerale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z Odin- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z SumoSud0- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z chrpape quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z q-u-a-n2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z niceplace quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z XachX quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z billstclair quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z zymurgy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z cg505 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z xantoz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z tristero quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z trocado quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z natter quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z Khisanth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:33Z nckx quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z vegai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z Xach quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z ChoHag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z nightfly_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z jxy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z ozzloy quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z trn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z c_nix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z liberliver quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z MindForeverVoyag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z theBlackDragon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z kaftejiman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z red-dot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z bitmapper quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z mankaev quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z bhartrihari quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z Balooga quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z bytesighs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z SomeB quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z housel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z ft quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z stux|RC-only quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z space_otter quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z OpenZen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z Bourne quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z X-Scale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z grewal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z terpri_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z cranes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z himmAllRight quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z joast quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z Tordek quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z d4ryus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z leo_song quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z kapil_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z Lord_Nightmare quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z nullman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z penguwin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z kbtr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z cdegroot quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z kingcons quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z wigust quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z jprajzne quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z Lycurgus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z Lord_of_Life quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z luis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z notzmv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z vaporatorius quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z johnjay quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z thecoffemaker quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z quazimodo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:34Z lansiir quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z Blukunfando quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z simplegauss quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z ark quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z getha quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z catern quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z em-bee quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z logicmoo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z troydm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z jibanes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z Ankhers quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z grumble quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z cpape quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z snits quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z grobe0ba quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z xlei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z White_Flame quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z mtd quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z r3x5- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z cracauer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z astronavt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z [df] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z payphone quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z EvW1 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z xkapastel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z jonatack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z kopiyka quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z coltkirk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z devrtz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z fe[nl]ix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z Blkt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z ffwacom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z dxtr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z doublex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z avicenna quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z rme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z chewbranca quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z yottabyte quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z terrorjack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z cpt_nemo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z Kaisyu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z lispyone_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z jlpeters quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z voidlily_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z HDurer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z mgr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z xristos quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z shinohai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z larme quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z interruptinuse quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z spal quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z phoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z jackhill quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z kim\ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z eschatologist quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z rabuf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z felideon quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:35Z CommanderViral quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z hiredman quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z _whitelogger quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z dyelar quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z jonathanschlink quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z fowlduck quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z RagnarDanneskjol quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z moon-child quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z emacsomancer quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z dale quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z knobo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z APic quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z bacterio quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z dvdmuckle quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z mrcom quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z froggey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z Harag quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z jackdaniel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z rixard_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z DGASAU quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z matijja quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z cmatei quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z ult quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z cybercafe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z Ziemas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z nitrix quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z Mandus quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z eagleflo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z hjudt quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z dim quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z cods quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z justinmcp quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z zigpaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z ahungry quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z mindCrime quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z Jesin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z akoana quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z vidak` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z fengshaun quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z Alfr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z elderK quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z jgkamat quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:36Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z heredoc quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z rumpelszn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z Grue`` quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z Demosthenex quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z Kaisyu72 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z Kabriel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z stepnem quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z zge quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z sveit quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z femi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z glamas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z Inoperable quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z cyraxjoe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z z3t0 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z spacebat2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z madand quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z kini quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z jfb4_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z GreaseMonkey quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z lowryder quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z trittweiler quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z add^_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z brass quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z jello_pudding quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z shrysr_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z yonkunas quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z mjl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z Grauwolf quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z dnm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z lukego quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z Ekho quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z winny quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z markasoftware quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z kilimanjaro quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z mfiano quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z edgar-rft quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z pent quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z cross quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z gendl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z conjunctive quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z banjiewen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z p_l quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z selwyn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z shymega quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z luckless_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z nirved quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:37Z madage quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z seok quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z FennecCode quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z stylewarning quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z mpontillo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z gjnoonan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z parisienne___ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z jsatk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z jerme_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z hydan quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z abbe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z lavaflow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z hhdave quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z arpunk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z gabiruh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z Archenoth quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z gigetoo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z davsebamse quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z tychoish quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z srji_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z uplime quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z dilated_dinosaur quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z xi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z alandipert quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z phadthai quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z malm quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z lottaquestions quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z null_ptr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z idxu quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z tessier quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z azrazalea quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z natj212 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z tomaw quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z z0d quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z lieven quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z esotericalgo quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z bsd4me quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z MichaelRaskin quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z shenghi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z jw4 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z nullheroes quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z datajerk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z elflng quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z bjorkintosh quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z hiroaki quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z wooden quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z micro quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z flazh1 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z zaquest quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z narendraj9 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z mgsk- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z minion quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z luna_is_here quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:38Z shka_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z eta quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z lad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z hdasch quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z TMA quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z zagura quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z swflint quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z |3b| quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z Necktwi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z epony quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z vhost- quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z aindilis quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z sukaeto quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z hvxgr quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z mbrumlow quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z ssake quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z nydel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z yang quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z nopf_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z funnel quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z dlowe quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z vsync quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:14:39Z Firedancer_ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z TMA joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z eta joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z mgsk- joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z narendraj9 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z flazh1 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z micro joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z wooden joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z datajerk joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z shenghi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z MichaelRaskin joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z bjorkintosh joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z xantoz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cg505 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z zymurgy joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z XachX joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z niceplace joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z q-u-a-n2 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z entel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z c_nix joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z trn joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jxy joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z nightfly_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z ChoHag joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Xach joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z nckx joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z natter joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z vegai joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z APic joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z housel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z SomeB joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z copec joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z bytesighs joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Balooga joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z bacterio joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Kaisyu72 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z luis joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z vidak` joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z fengshaun joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cranes joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z dvdmuckle joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Alfr joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z FennecCode joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z elderK joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jgkamat joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Kabriel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z johnjay joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z luckless_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z joast joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z zge joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z thecoffemaker joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Tordek joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z lansiir joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z asedeno joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z kopiyka joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z coltkirk joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z kapil_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z simplegauss joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z sveit joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z flip214 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z femi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z moon-child joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z nullman joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z dyelar joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jello_pudding joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z devrtz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z ark joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jonathanschlink joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z catern joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z getha joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z shrysr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z em-bee joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z logicmoo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z rixard_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Blkt joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z troydm joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jibanes joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z glamas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z barjavel.freenode.net has set mode +o fe[nl]ix
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z yonkunas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z RagnarDanneskjol joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z ffwacom joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z mjl joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z wigust joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z mood joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cdegroot joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z kbtr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z kingcons joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z penguwin joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Ankhers joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Inoperable joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z matijja joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Grauwolf joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z grumble joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z dxtr joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z lonjil joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z dnm joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z lukego joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cpape joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z snits joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z doublex joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Ekho joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z winny joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z avicenna joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z rme joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z markasoftware joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z yottabyte joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cross joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z payphone joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z [df] joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z astronavt joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cracauer joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z r3x5- joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z mtd joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z White_Flame joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z _death joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z xlei joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z grobe0ba joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jdz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z hiredman joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z CommanderViral joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z felideon joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z rabuf joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z kim\ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jackhill joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z phoe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z spal joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z interruptinuse joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z larme joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z shinohai joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z xristos joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z mgr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z HDurer joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z voidlily_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jlpeters joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z lispyone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z knobo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z dale joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cods joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z dim joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z hjudt joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z eagleflo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Mandus joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z nitrix joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Ziemas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cybercafe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z ult joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z cmatei joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Demosthenex joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z Grue`` joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z rumpelszn joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z heredoc joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z brass joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z add^_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z trittweiler joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z lowryder joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z GreaseMonkey joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jfb4_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z kini joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z madand joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z spacebat2 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z z3t0 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z jerme_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z hydan joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z selwyn joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z shymega joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z mfiano joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:56Z abbe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z taof joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z gko joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z pok joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z solrize_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z vert2_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z jbgg_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z aap joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z Guest90000 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z ntr joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z bkst joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z nmg joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z loke joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z AdmiralBumbleBee joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z aeth joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z gabot joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z OMGOMG joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z bonz060 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z guaqua joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z zagura joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z swflint joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:18:59Z |3b| joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z hhdave joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z arpunk joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z gabiruh joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z uplime joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z tychoish joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z srji_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z xi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z alandipert joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z phadthai joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z malm joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z lottaquestions joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z null_ptr joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:08Z idxu joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:09Z tessier joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:09Z ck_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:09Z azrazalea joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:09Z natj212 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:09Z tomaw joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:09Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:09Z z0d joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:09Z lieven joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:09Z esotericalgo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:10Z yang joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:10Z ski joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:10Z nopf joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z beach joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z thonkpod joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z seisatsu joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z easye joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z splittist joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z tfb joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z jasom joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z sgithens joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z rvirding joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z jmercouris joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z drot_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z HiRE joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z Yardanico joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z ecraven joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z ioa joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z creat joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z otwieracz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z beaky joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z gingerale joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z Odin- joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z SumoSud0- joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z antoszka joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z chrpape joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z ssake joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:15Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:16Z hvxgr joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:16Z Gnuxie[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:16Z funnel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:22Z travv0 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:22Z chewbranca quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T02:19:27Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:30Z mpontillo quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T02:19:30Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:31Z fowlduck joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:32Z yang quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T02:19:32Z yang joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:33Z mpontillo quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T02:19:33Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:33Z gendl quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T02:19:33Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:35Z travv0 quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T02:19:35Z travv0 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:35Z fowlduck quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T02:19:35Z fowlduck joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:37Z funnel quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T02:19:37Z funnel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:19:43Z madage quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T02:20:20Z jurov joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:20:32Z mpontillo quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T02:20:32Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:20:33Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T02:20:52Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:20:52Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:20:58Z pent joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:02Z akkad joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:02Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:02Z vhost- joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:02Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:02Z sukaeto joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:02Z mbrumlow joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:02Z nydel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:02Z dlowe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:02Z vsync joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:02Z Firedancer_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:05Z gjnoonan joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:13Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:25Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:30Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:21:47Z parisienne___ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:22:05Z conjunctive joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:22:35Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:22:38Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:22:42Z billstclair joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:23:02Z p_l joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:23:15Z drmeister joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:23:16Z gaze__ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:23:16Z stylewarning joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:23:18Z jsatk joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:23:31Z johs joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:23:33Z l1x joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:23:43Z mgsk joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:23:54Z clone_of_saturn joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:23:55Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:24:04Z clone_of_saturn is now known as saturn2
2020-07-25T02:24:08Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:24:30Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:24:42Z taof quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T02:25:19Z physpi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:36:35Z bsd4me quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T02:41:01Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:20Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z kelamir[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z MrtnDk[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z infra_red[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z userself joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z unl0ckd joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z sammich joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z katco joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z LdBeth joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z camlriot42 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:21Z even4void[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:27Z deselby joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:27Z fountainpen[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:49:29Z liamz[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:52:01Z bsd4me quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T02:52:20Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:54:12Z bsd4me quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T02:55:28Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-25T02:55:51Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:01:02Z Alfr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:03:42Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-25T03:03:51Z justache quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T03:04:16Z Alfr quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T03:05:21Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:07:17Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T03:07:54Z borei joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:12:51Z borei: hi all !
2020-07-25T03:16:35Z bsd4me quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T03:17:20Z borei: slowly moving my project from C++ to lisp, wanted to move everything 100 %, but seems like still need to use C (not C++) as CFFI calls, mainly because of performance. Honestly i don't know should i expect lisp performance close to C. If somebody open for discussion - i'd more then happy. Lisp code is here - https://pastebin.com/hVwBH2Kb
2020-07-25T03:17:40Z borei: main troublemaker is b-spline function.
2020-07-25T03:18:53Z borei: im getting lisp performance very close to C without optimization. However if C code compiled with O1 or even with -O2 - difference is huge.
2020-07-25T03:22:42Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:26:18Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:27:59Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:31:43Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T03:32:36Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:42:33Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:47:08Z moon-child: borei: do you have c code for comparison?
2020-07-25T03:47:45Z borei: sure sure
2020-07-25T03:47:47Z borei: one sec
2020-07-25T03:48:20Z moon-child: you can try disassembling the function, which may help you locate specific areas for optimization
2020-07-25T03:48:23Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:48:29Z moon-child: on a completely unrelated note, you can replace (- i 1) with (1- i)
2020-07-25T03:49:26Z borei: https://pastebin.com/vj533qSp - C implementation
2020-07-25T03:51:50Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:52:10Z borei: im suspecting that lisp is not so efficient working with array, like C
2020-07-25T03:52:59Z moon-child: I think it's probably the boundschecks.  Afaik (safety 0) is just for type safety, not bound safety
2020-07-25T03:53:27Z borei: what is the boundscheck ?
2020-07-25T03:54:34Z borei: well, i understand it, but what is happening on the lisp side ?
2020-07-25T03:54:35Z moon-child: when you say (aref nodes x), it has to make sure that x>=0 and x<(length nodes)
2020-07-25T03:54:45Z borei: aha
2020-07-25T03:54:54Z moon-child: but in c, u[x] makes no such check
2020-07-25T03:55:12Z borei: and seems like O2 optimization in C is terning it off
2020-07-25T03:55:21Z borei: that can explain
2020-07-25T03:55:25Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T03:55:26Z moon-child: no, c never has bounds checks
2020-07-25T03:55:49Z borei: right right
2020-07-25T03:56:28Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T03:56:29Z moon-child: oh, no, I'm wrong; (safety 0) does turn off boundschecks
2020-07-25T03:56:48Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-25T03:58:29Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-25T03:58:45Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T03:59:01Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:00:43Z justache quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T04:02:12Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:03:47Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T04:04:14Z borei: hmm, i have safety 0, and forced error with negative array index
2020-07-25T04:04:34Z borei: and it catch it
2020-07-25T04:05:04Z borei: was expecting segfault
2020-07-25T04:05:43Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:06:12Z moon-child: ah, huh.  I tried to aref with an out-of-bounds index (length was three index was 20) and got back nil
2020-07-25T04:07:17Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T04:07:28Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:09:43Z beach: borei: You probably have to combine low safety with low debug and high speed.
2020-07-25T04:10:01Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T04:10:10Z borei: (optimize (debug 0) (safety 0) (speed 3)) - that is what i have
2020-07-25T04:10:24Z borei: https://pastebin.com/hVwBH2Kb - entire code
2020-07-25T04:10:35Z beach: Oh, OK.
2020-07-25T04:11:12Z bsd4me quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T04:11:55Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:12:17Z borei: worst case scenario - how expensive is CFFI call ?
2020-07-25T04:13:10Z markasoftware: not that bad borei, you can do tens of millions per second
2020-07-25T04:13:31Z markasoftware: of basic cffi calls
2020-07-25T04:14:08Z markasoftware: anyway, onto my question...is `(setf (return-code*) 403) (abort-request-handler)` the correct way to do an http error in hunchentoot?
2020-07-25T04:16:25Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T04:17:07Z jonathanschlink left #lisp
2020-07-25T04:18:07Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:21:55Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T04:22:16Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T04:22:17Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:23:26Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:24:24Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:26:08Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:28:45Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T04:29:59Z nitrix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T04:30:36Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:32:02Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-25T04:32:36Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:32:41Z nitrix joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:32:46Z bsd4me left #lisp
2020-07-25T04:33:23Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:35:22Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T04:37:24Z shangul: I just saw http://cl21.org/ and I thought I don't like it... Do the others here have the same opinion as me?
2020-07-25T04:38:14Z beach: I know very few people who like it.
2020-07-25T04:38:25Z beach: Maybe only the author.
2020-07-25T04:39:14Z beach: Oh, I didn't realize the author was Fukamachi.
2020-07-25T04:39:19Z beach: Interesting.
2020-07-25T04:39:45Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T04:40:04Z shangul: IMO, the problem's that it is making Common Lisp less Lispy by taking features and syntax of the other language
2020-07-25T04:40:43Z shangul: If instead of this they work on what ANSI hasn't talked about and we need them
2020-07-25T04:40:54Z shangul: like socket programming or multithreading
2020-07-25T04:41:07Z borei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T04:42:01Z beach: Well, the main problem is that Fukamachi is making the same mistake as many others, i.e., he thinks he has found the reason why Common Lisp is not as widely used as he thinks it ought to be, and he also thinks he knows how to fix it.  The problem is that he, and all the others, are wrong about why Common Lisp is not more widely used, and also wrong about what would make it so.
2020-07-25T04:42:28Z shangul: It would be very cool if someone or some group change some stuff in the old ANSI Common Lisp and provide a new backward compatible standard
2020-07-25T04:43:03Z beach: Why would it be "cool" to change the standard?
2020-07-25T04:43:25Z shangul: beach, Well perhaps I have used the wrong term
2020-07-25T04:43:31Z shangul: It would be nice and useful
2020-07-25T04:43:49Z bjorkintosh: common lisp is like labor unions in the united states. its ideas were great and ahead of the time, but have been adopted (with varying results) by many industries at last, leading to a decline in unions.
2020-07-25T04:43:54Z bjorkintosh: a victim of its own success.
2020-07-25T04:44:02Z beach: shangul: Why would it be nice and useful?
2020-07-25T04:44:22Z beach: Look, people use languages without a standard all the time.  In fact, if I understand things right, Python is the most popular programming language these days, and it doesn't have a standard.
2020-07-25T04:44:31Z shangul: beach, Why we don't have a single widely used standard defined for socket programming(as an example)
2020-07-25T04:44:33Z bjorkintosh: English too!
2020-07-25T04:44:46Z shangul: :)
2020-07-25T04:45:02Z beach: shangul: Why do you need for it to be a standard?  Like I said, people use non-standard stuff all the time.
2020-07-25T04:45:16Z moon-child: shangul: if implementations were willing to agree on a standard for sockets|threads, they would have done it already.  At this point, if you made a new standard, it would be *competing*, not *unifying*
2020-07-25T04:45:17Z beach: shangul: Why is it that, for Common Lisp, it has to be in the standard?
2020-07-25T04:45:17Z shangul: <beach> Look, people use languages without a standard all the time.  In fact, if I understand things right, Python is the most popular programming language these days, and it doesn't have a standard. => In this, Python and CL are a bit different
2020-07-25T04:45:43Z beach: This is a recurring discussion, and it is REALLY BORING.
2020-07-25T04:46:39Z beach: Lots of people seem to have the key to making Common Lisp more popular, and all of them are wrong.
2020-07-25T04:47:04Z beach: It is not about the language itself.  So stop trying to change the language, or the standard, in order to make it more popular.
2020-07-25T04:47:06Z beach: It won't work.
2020-07-25T04:47:26Z bjorkintosh: what's the key?
2020-07-25T04:48:33Z beach: People must be exposed to it before they have many years of experience with languages that are totally different, or else they will reject Common Lisp for reasons known as "cognitive dissonance".
2020-07-25T04:48:53Z bjorkintosh: hah! good point.
2020-07-25T04:49:00Z beach: I have said this many, many times.
2020-07-25T04:49:37Z beach: Our minds can not cope with a situation where we have used a programming language for many years, perhaps a decade or more, and then we are told that there is something better.
2020-07-25T04:49:54Z beach: So our minds invent reasons to reject that other thing.
2020-07-25T04:49:54Z moon-child: beach: if you don't want to become an advocate, don't waste your breath.  Otherwise, don't complain about having to advocate things.  :)
2020-07-25T04:50:17Z beach: Fine, I'll shut up.  Good luck changing the standard.
2020-07-25T04:50:34Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-25T04:50:43Z Oladon: Evening, beach! How's your day going? :)
2020-07-25T04:51:00Z moon-child: I agree with you.  Just saying, if you don't like telling people they're wrong, then there's not much point
2020-07-25T04:51:19Z shangul: Well for Python there is a dictator which rules and there is just one really widely used implementation of Python. Of course there are others but not widely used and I think the main implementation is the reference one. But for CL there is no dictator so there exist multiple implementations and if the standard does not talk about, for example, socket programming, then it makes implementations have their own socket API, each one
2020-07-25T04:51:19Z shangul: different than the other one(of course there is a portable socket library which works on almost all implementations but why it has to be like this? Wouldn't it be nicer if we had socket programming specified in the standard and no need to a library with thousands of lines of code.
2020-07-25T04:51:28Z beach: Oladon: Not so well, as you can see.
2020-07-25T04:51:33Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T04:51:36Z shangul: )
2020-07-25T04:51:48Z Oladon: beach: I ah, was hoping there were other parts that were going better. Like Lisp or tasty food or something. :)
2020-07-25T04:51:56Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:52:17Z beach: I just barely finished my morning coffee.  Getting out of this discussion will help already.
2020-07-25T04:52:24Z shangul: Well that's my current opinion but since I am a noob, yet, perhaps I should talk not about these stuff till I get to a good level of CL.
2020-07-25T04:52:37Z Oladon: Fair enough, beach.
2020-07-25T04:52:53Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-25T04:52:54Z Oladon: shangul: That's probably the wisest thing you've said so far ;)
2020-07-25T04:52:55Z shangul: And I am not thinking to make users of CL more by this.
2020-07-25T04:53:14Z narimiran quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T04:54:27Z shangul: Oladon, I know I'm just a noob/beginner. So you can joke at me like this ;)
2020-07-25T04:55:01Z Oladon: shangul: I'm not joking, nor am I talking about your "noob" comment. It is wise to seek to understand before you seek to change.
2020-07-25T04:55:12Z shangul: aha
2020-07-25T04:55:32Z shangul: I thought you were joking at me because I am a noob :))
2020-07-25T04:56:14Z shangul: IMO: In short, for languages like Python the reference is the dictator's implementation but for CL it is different: The standard is reference.
2020-07-25T04:57:23Z moon-child: shangul, in the cl I write, the standard is sbcl
2020-07-25T04:57:49Z shangul: moon-child, CL you write?
2020-07-25T04:58:10Z moon-child: when I write cl, I write it according to sbcl's behaviour, not the standard's behaviour
2020-07-25T04:58:45Z shangul: If everyone was considering SBCL as reference, it would be very nice.
2020-07-25T04:59:06Z shangul: (Or any other CL implementation)
2020-07-25T04:59:36Z Oladon: shangul: Why do you think nobody here is agreeing with you?
2020-07-25T05:00:26Z shangul: I totally don't think about it(agreeing or not agreeing) till I get reply for members of the channel.
2020-07-25T05:00:56Z shangul: But because I am just a beginner, I consider my opinions likely, wrong.
2020-07-25T05:01:13Z Oladon: Then why are you proclaiming them so loudly?
2020-07-25T05:01:47Z bjorkintosh: empty barrels tend to make loud drums
2020-07-25T05:02:18Z shangul: My opinions might be either right or wrong and if they are wrong, I need someone to guide me.
2020-07-25T05:02:24Z Oladon: bjorkintosh: Heh, haven't heard that one before. I like it.
2020-07-25T05:02:36Z shangul: and to correct me
2020-07-25T05:03:24Z bjorkintosh: Oladon, thanks. it was very recently coined. might do with some editing.
2020-07-25T05:03:36Z Oladon: shangul: If you seek to truly learn Lisp, then you will discover the rightness or wrongness of those opinions over time. There is little to be gained from trying to provoke people into telling you you're wrong about such things at this point in your journey.
2020-07-25T05:03:44Z shangul: <bjorkintosh> empty barrels tend to make loud drums => Yeah we have this proverb in our language too. And I am sorry of I was an empty barrel...
2020-07-25T05:03:46Z xkapastel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-25T05:04:08Z Oladon: bjorkintosh: Ah, I was thinking I'd probably remember it as "empty barrels make loud drums", just concissify it a bit
2020-07-25T05:04:48Z bjorkintosh: I happen to like steel drum bands.
2020-07-25T05:05:13Z Oladon: I like to cut empty barrels in half and put dirt in them...
2020-07-25T05:05:15Z shangul: Oladon, You are right, but that way takes more time. Why not instead using other experienced people's expertise instead of experiencing them all myself?
2020-07-25T05:05:22Z Oladon: But that's getting fairly off-topic :P
2020-07-25T05:05:29Z Oladon: shangul: Depends on your target outcomes.
2020-07-25T05:05:58Z Oladon: Imagine that I decided to learn Korean.
2020-07-25T05:06:46Z Oladon: I could join a Korean channel and loudly proclaim "The Korean language is silly! Look, I can speak it: bok gum il nuk!"
2020-07-25T05:07:06Z Oladon: I'm sure people would immediately jump on me and tell me how no, that's not Korean, it makes no sense, etc. etc. etc.
2020-07-25T05:07:12Z Oladon: Is that really a good way for me to learn?
2020-07-25T05:07:37Z bjorkintosh: No!
2020-07-25T05:07:53Z terpri_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T05:08:02Z bjorkintosh: best way to learn is in an interactive environment which gently nudges you away from the errors you will commit.
2020-07-25T05:08:22Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T05:08:37Z Oladon: ^ Nailed it. And which helps you focus on the important things, and not worry about silly distractions.
2020-07-25T05:08:37Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T05:08:56Z shangul: Oladon, You are just right
2020-07-25T05:09:06Z shangul: And let me get back to my job and if I did or said anything wrong, I apologize to channel's members.
2020-07-25T05:09:09Z bjorkintosh: you don't learn korean by studying law... that'll be dreadful.
2020-07-25T05:09:52Z bjorkintosh: start with ... korean movies and drama! all the fun stuff!
2020-07-25T05:10:14Z Oladon: Or Hangul, if you're a language nerd like me...
2020-07-25T05:10:40Z Oladon doesn't actually speak Korean (well, I know one word), but it's on the list for one of these days. 
2020-07-25T05:11:10Z moon-child: I've been trying to learn german by reading german novels.  Hasn't worked out...yet!
2020-07-25T05:11:27Z Oladon: moon-child: Be sure to keep us posted!
2020-07-25T05:12:14Z Oladon: Now, then... to go to bed, or add a new feature to my project...
2020-07-25T05:13:01Z moon-child: sleep is for the week!
2020-07-25T05:13:04Z moon-child: err
2020-07-25T05:13:12Z Oladon: Mmm, sleep for a week...
2020-07-25T05:13:13Z moon-child: this is the weekend
2020-07-25T05:14:31Z aeth: On the earlier topic... People use languages that they're made to use. Microsoft makes you use C#, your job makes you use Java because Sun-then-Oracle has good sales teams, your browser makes you use JavaScript, the library you need uses Python, your Unix probably comes with bash, etc.
2020-07-25T05:14:43Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T05:14:48Z Oladon: Nuuuuuuu, we managed to kill that topic
2020-07-25T05:14:51Z Oladon: Don't bring it back!
2020-07-25T05:15:01Z aeth: If you want to make CL popular, force people to use it :p
2020-07-25T05:15:28Z Oladon: Heh. Good luck with that...
2020-07-25T05:15:46Z Oladon: Java is also popular because it's impossible to write bad code in it.
2020-07-25T05:15:47Z aeth: luck or tens/hundreds of millions of dollars, either works
2020-07-25T05:15:53Z Oladon: It's also impossible to write good code in it, but...
2020-07-25T05:17:54Z shangul: I was looking for a cherrypy alternative for CL and I found ningle. It seems very cute just like cherrypy :))
2020-07-25T05:19:24Z aeth: Anyway, if you want a programming language to dominate the world you must first dominate the world :-p
2020-07-25T05:20:37Z Oladon: like me!
2020-07-25T05:21:13Z aeth: like you on Facebook?
2020-07-25T05:21:41Z shangul: When I was in highschool I was trying to make a friend of mine to learn CL (CL is nice, CL has this has that...) But he didn't go learn CL...
2020-07-25T05:22:02Z shangul: After months when he saw CL himself, he started to talk about CL
2020-07-25T05:22:37Z shangul: "What a great language, programmable? cool I will use it for my projects, etc"
2020-07-25T05:22:50Z shangul: And now he wants to learn CL
2020-07-25T05:22:58Z Oladon: aeth: what's a face book?
2020-07-25T05:23:36Z aeth: I think it's an obscure synonym to "yearbook" but I could be wrong
2020-07-25T05:23:55Z Oladon: oh, so like "sign my yearbook"?
2020-07-25T05:23:59Z Oladon: slang is so weird
2020-07-25T05:24:12Z shangul: CL's community is somehow strange: It is decades which a small community use CL but the community does not grow much neither dies. From each generation a few find Lisp and learn it
2020-07-25T05:24:24Z shangul: And in this way CL is still alive!
2020-07-25T05:24:47Z aeth: until everyone moves to something like coalton :-p
2020-07-25T05:24:57Z Oladon: The world can only sustain so many enlightened life forms.
2020-07-25T05:29:34Z aeth: look at a huge part of the universe that hasn't heard of Lisp yet: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hubble_Extreme_Deep_Field_(full_resolution).png
2020-07-25T05:30:00Z aeth: If there is a universal quota, I think there's enough space in it for everyone on Earth to learn Lisp
2020-07-25T05:31:00Z Oladon: aeth: There's not. The required space per enlightened being expands with the universe.
2020-07-25T05:31:49Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-25T05:31:54Z aeth: So there's a Lisp density function?
2020-07-25T05:34:04Z diamondbond_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T05:37:07Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T05:39:47Z diamondbond_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T05:44:12Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T05:45:57Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-25T05:47:49Z Oladon: Indeed.
2020-07-25T05:50:27Z Oladon: G'night!
2020-07-25T05:56:25Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T05:58:10Z lad quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-25T06:00:29Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-25T06:04:23Z terpri_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T06:09:46Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T06:11:10Z lad quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-25T06:11:16Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T06:13:28Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T06:21:50Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T06:25:20Z cosimone_ is now known as cosimone
2020-07-25T06:26:01Z parjanya joined #lisp
2020-07-25T06:26:47Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T06:33:15Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-25T06:33:21Z srji_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-25T06:34:21Z srji joined #lisp
2020-07-25T06:42:30Z lavaflow quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T06:44:59Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-25T06:49:47Z lavaflow quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T06:50:07Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-25T06:52:09Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-25T06:53:47Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-25T06:56:23Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-25T07:12:20Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-25T07:19:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T07:25:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T07:28:07Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T07:39:03Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T07:41:07Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-25T07:41:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-25T07:42:38Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-25T07:45:57Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-25T07:49:22Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T07:49:28Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T07:49:49Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-25T07:54:13Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T07:54:45Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T07:59:53Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:00:34Z justache quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T08:00:51Z technobean quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-25T08:01:37Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:01:51Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:02:01Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:02:34Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T08:05:54Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T08:10:04Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:10:20Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T08:11:04Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:11:55Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:21:38Z red-dot quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T08:22:01Z red-dot joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:23:22Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-25T08:24:55Z luckless_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T08:25:23Z luckless_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:31:25Z space_otter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T08:35:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T08:35:17Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:39:30Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T08:39:32Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:40:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T08:43:13Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:44:42Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:51:25Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T08:52:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T08:53:30Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T08:57:45Z space_otter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T08:59:58Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:06:04Z Harag: morning
2020-07-25T09:06:13Z shinohai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T09:06:18Z beach: Hello Harag.
2020-07-25T09:06:59Z drot_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T09:07:39Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:08:10Z Harag: beach: I cleaned up the XP code last night and made an .asd for it and it mostly works but a lot of the 600 plus test cases fail and some of "game over style" but interestingly sbcl does the same on some of those tests.
2020-07-25T09:08:36Z phoe: are you working on a portable pretty printing package?
2020-07-25T09:08:51Z phoe: or, as I've just decided to call it, (p²)²?
2020-07-25T09:09:02Z Harag: _death: gave me an education last night and by the looks of it the XP became the standard but XP is no longer aligned to the standard
2020-07-25T09:09:09Z beach: Harag: I see.
2020-07-25T09:09:17Z Harag: so to make it portable I have to realign it to the standard
2020-07-25T09:09:25Z phoe: it's old code, so no doubt that the standard moved on
2020-07-25T09:09:31Z phoe: I had to do the same with kmp's original condition system
2020-07-25T09:09:43Z phoe: thankfully ANSI-TEST exists so I could use those to verify the condition system
2020-07-25T09:09:47Z Harag: I dont think there is a big difference phoe
2020-07-25T09:10:33Z phoe nods, goes afk
2020-07-25T09:11:19Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:11:25Z Harag: what I need to understand first is why the use of eval-when in a lot of places in his code.
2020-07-25T09:11:43Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T09:12:11Z Harag: https://gitlab.com/Harag/xpx-pretty-printer
2020-07-25T09:12:13Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:12:17Z Harag: ther is what I have done so far
2020-07-25T09:13:01Z phoe: > to be a portable pretty printer for CLtL2 again
2020-07-25T09:13:10Z phoe: might want to use ANSI CL rather than CLtL2, the two differ at times
2020-07-25T09:13:18Z Harag: ok
2020-07-25T09:13:31Z Harag: *sigh*
2020-07-25T09:14:08Z Harag: phoe are the links in the readme for cltl2 or ansi?
2020-07-25T09:15:07Z phoe: "the standard" links to ANSI CL
2020-07-25T09:15:14Z phoe: since that links to CLHS which is ANSI CL
2020-07-25T09:15:43Z phoe: and in practice we're all here doing ANSI CL, with some nice things backported from CLtL2
2020-07-25T09:16:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:16:15Z space_otter quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-25T09:20:23Z Harag: what nice things from cltl2?
2020-07-25T09:20:55Z Harag: and dare I ask why the ansi cl dorpped them
2020-07-25T09:20:58Z phoe: mostly environment introspection facilities
2020-07-25T09:21:25Z phoe: the committee decided not to include them in the standard, though I dunno why - maybe the X3J13 issues have some insight
2020-07-25T09:22:10Z beach: It is a good thing that the environment-inspection functions weren't included.  As I explain in the Trucler documentation, they are not extensible and not complete.
2020-07-25T09:23:00Z beach: I think that many features were rejected because they felt that they were not quite right, but they did not have time to invent better ones.
2020-07-25T09:23:18Z Harag: is it that they are in principal not extensible or just not designed extesible in cltl2
2020-07-25T09:23:24Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T09:24:06Z beach: They use multiple values in a way that can't be extended.
2020-07-25T09:24:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:24:52Z beach: Trucler, on the other hand, uses generic functions and standard classes, so the protocols are both extensible and adaptable to different clients.
2020-07-25T09:27:21Z beach: And they don't cover blocks and TAGBODY tags.
2020-07-25T09:27:32Z beach: So they HAVE to be extended to be useful.
2020-07-25T09:28:10Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:33:37Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-25T09:33:47Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T09:33:56Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:37:14Z Harag: is there a print readable equivilant for set-pprint-dispatch or is expeted that printing readable would use pprint-dispatch table
2020-07-25T09:45:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T09:45:14Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:46:25Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T09:47:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:50:34Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:50:35Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T09:50:38Z diamondbond_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:50:56Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T09:51:44Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-25T09:56:45Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:02:36Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T10:03:48Z diamondbond_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T10:03:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:05:27Z igemnace quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T10:07:02Z space_otter quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T10:07:36Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:11:51Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T10:12:02Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:14:19Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:14:48Z grumble is now known as rawr
2020-07-25T10:15:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T10:16:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:24:33Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:26:54Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:26:54Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T10:26:54Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:27:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T10:28:13Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:32:25Z Harag: correct me if I am wrong please setting *print-pretty* to t causes "The information in this table takes precedence over all other mechanisms for specifying how to print objects."
2020-07-25T10:32:47Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T10:34:20Z Harag: so if you wanted to override any printing behaviour you can just set *print-pretty* and supply an entiry to *print-pprint-dispatch*
2020-07-25T10:39:03Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T10:40:21Z space_otter quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-25T10:40:23Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:44:02Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T10:44:56Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:45:02Z Ven`` joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:45:17Z puchacz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:45:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:48:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T10:49:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T10:51:57Z pve quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T11:00:38Z justache quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T11:00:52Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:02:03Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:03:11Z devrtz quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-07-25T11:03:53Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T11:04:08Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T11:04:16Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-25T11:05:14Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:06:07Z devrtz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:06:11Z Frobozz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:13:35Z igemnace quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T11:13:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T11:14:23Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T11:14:25Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:19:20Z scymtym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T11:20:13Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T11:21:58Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:26:34Z diamondbond_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:27:42Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T11:27:55Z diamondbond_ is now known as diamondbond
2020-07-25T11:29:02Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:31:49Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:32:40Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T11:34:35Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T11:35:13Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:35:46Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T11:35:50Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:40:14Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T11:41:24Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:41:34Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:41:36Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:41:41Z specbot quit (Read error: No route to host)
2020-07-25T11:41:41Z minion quit (Read error: No route to host)
2020-07-25T11:42:12Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:42:50Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:46:46Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:54:43Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-25T11:55:07Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T12:00:37Z justache quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T12:02:02Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:06:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T12:06:15Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:18:28Z aaaaaa quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-25T12:20:59Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T12:22:12Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:23:56Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-25T12:27:31Z ft quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
2020-07-25T12:27:41Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:35:28Z Gnuxie[m] quit (Quit: authenticating)
2020-07-25T12:35:37Z Gnuxie[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:40:25Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T12:41:28Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:44:31Z shinohai joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:45:34Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:48:14Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T12:49:24Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:49:57Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T12:57:04Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T12:57:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:59:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T12:59:14Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T12:59:53Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T13:00:06Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:02:20Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:02:20Z krid joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:03:06Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:03:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T13:08:16Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:10:24Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T13:10:25Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T13:11:44Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:13:22Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T13:13:31Z terpri_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-25T13:14:04Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:16:38Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:17:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T13:17:55Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:28:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T13:28:54Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:30:30Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T13:30:35Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:37:37Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T13:39:32Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:39:44Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:39:59Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:40:04Z specbot quit (Read error: No route to host)
2020-07-25T13:40:34Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:41:18Z minion quit (Disconnected by services)
2020-07-25T13:41:21Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:44:10Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T13:44:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:44:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T13:45:34Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:50:54Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T13:51:13Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T13:58:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T13:58:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:01:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T14:02:33Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:09:11Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:11:50Z froggey: Hello #lisp!
2020-07-25T14:11:53Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T14:11:55Z froggey: Mezzano Demo 5 is finally out, featuring improved disk file system support, SMP support, a USB stack, a more robust network stack, and more
2020-07-25T14:11:59Z froggey: https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano/releases/tag/demo5
2020-07-25T14:12:03Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:12:08Z beach: Hey froggey.
2020-07-25T14:12:26Z beach: Congratulations!
2020-07-25T14:13:09Z lukego: cool :)
2020-07-25T14:13:28Z froggey: thank you
2020-07-25T14:13:54Z lucasb joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:14:55Z edgar-rft: thanks froggey, wrongly read "USB stick" :-)
2020-07-25T14:16:13Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T14:16:42Z froggey: heh, USB [memory] sticks should be supported now
2020-07-25T14:16:44Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:17:02Z jackdaniel: froggey: congrats
2020-07-25T14:21:06Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T14:21:50Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:22:25Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T14:24:09Z diamondbond quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T14:24:19Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:28:05Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:30:23Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T14:31:44Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:38:58Z Ven`` quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-25T14:45:25Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T14:53:41Z arpunk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T14:54:38Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T14:55:38Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:57:12Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:57:12Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T14:57:13Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T14:58:24Z beach: froggey: You know that, according to Tanenbaum and Bos, Mezzano can not possibly exist.
2020-07-25T15:00:48Z froggey: I've see a lot of people say that over the years, though not so many recently
2020-07-25T15:00:51Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T15:02:24Z beach: Those two are respected and supposedly very knowledgeable.  In their book Modern Operating Systems, they make it very clear that operating systems can not be written in a language with automatic memory management.
2020-07-25T15:02:44Z beach: I have unfortunately lost the page reference.
2020-07-25T15:02:47Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:03:34Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T15:03:41Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:03:59Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:04:18Z beach: But, yes, among less knowledgeable people, it is more common.  I had a student once, who laughed very hard when it was suggested to him that one could actually use sockets with Common Lisp.
2020-07-25T15:05:37Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T15:06:41Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T15:07:40Z froggey: it's a bit shocking how C and Unix have become the possible only way to do an operating system, especially after looking back and seeing all the unusual systems that used to exist
2020-07-25T15:08:21Z beach: Indeed.
2020-07-25T15:08:53Z beach: The Unix Haters Handbook has a lot to say about Unix compared to those existing unusable systems.
2020-07-25T15:10:16Z beach: I mean, they must have been unusable, since Unix made them disappear.
2020-07-25T15:11:28Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:11:48Z beach: Now, there were good ones and bad ones from a user point of view.  VM/CMS was quite bad.
2020-07-25T15:12:27Z luckless_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T15:12:33Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T15:12:41Z beach: VMS was probably good as a deployed system, but as a development environment, it was definitely not great.
2020-07-25T15:12:57Z luckless_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:13:25Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T15:13:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:16:03Z mfiano: beach: I found a couple page references
2020-07-25T15:20:50Z drot joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:23:13Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T15:23:26Z Achylles joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:24:33Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:26:40Z beach: Care to share?
2020-07-25T15:26:48Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:26:58Z mfiano: Here's what I could find in my copy: https://gist.github.com/mfiano/812334abf896182f589cc9a9f1997b2e
2020-07-25T15:28:07Z tychoish: if I wanted to have project-local dependencies (e.g. load a system from a git submodule or even something vendored, rather than from quicklisp/local-projects,) is there a convention that I should follow, or something that would be good to look at as an example?
2020-07-25T15:28:09Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T15:28:19Z beach: mfiano: Yes, it was the "show stopper" I was referring to.
2020-07-25T15:28:26Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:30:26Z froggey: ha. the solution to that is simple: allow interrupt handlers to interrupt the GC
2020-07-25T15:31:25Z mfiano: tychoish: There isn't a convention for that, because all transitive dependencies need to be followed and fetched, and ASDF/Quicklisp manage that. The solution would be to have a project-local Quicklisp installation, but that would surely be buggy and painful, as similar projects that attempt that such as qlot are.
2020-07-25T15:31:44Z beach: froggey: Yes, there are a number of solutions to that "problem".
2020-07-25T15:32:09Z tychoish: that makes sense
2020-07-25T15:32:28Z puchacz: from the book excerpts: "and predictable" - but is any complex algorithm actually predictable in terms of malloc/free patterns, when consuming real world data?
2020-07-25T15:33:07Z beach: malloc/free are certainly not predictable that way.
2020-07-25T15:33:19Z tychoish: I have a fork of something that I have in my local-projects directory, but that seems like a very specific solution. I suppose adding a project-specific local directory to ql's search path, and checking things out there would work, I guess?
2020-07-25T15:33:29Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-25T15:33:48Z mfiano: tychoish: I would suggest looking at qlot, but do so with the expectation of many hairs pulled from your head
2020-07-25T15:34:12Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:34:21Z phoe: froggey: is there any changelog for mezzano5?
2020-07-25T15:34:34Z phoe: oh, I see up in the log
2020-07-25T15:34:37Z phoe: congrats
2020-07-25T15:34:42Z mfiano: Quicklisp itself will not pick up systems automatically if they are in sub-directories
2020-07-25T15:34:50Z puchacz: and congratulations, froggey :-)
2020-07-25T15:35:22Z phoe: #'ql:register-local-projects
2020-07-25T15:35:28Z tychoish: yeah, I've been trying to keep things very vanilla quicklisp and stay away from things like qlot
2020-07-25T15:35:28Z mfiano: Right
2020-07-25T15:35:31Z phoe: I think it was even added as a restart to recent versions of the ql client
2020-07-25T15:35:59Z froggey: phoe: there's a little bit more in the readme, https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano/blob/master/README.md "Major changes since Demo 4"
2020-07-25T15:36:09Z mfiano: The problem with adding a project-local fork to Quicklisp will infact override the upstream version for any other dependents, which would potentially break curated Quicklisp dists
2020-07-25T15:36:10Z phoe: froggey: thanks
2020-07-25T15:36:55Z phoe: SMP! can I use bordeaux-threads now?
2020-07-25T15:37:10Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:37:25Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:39:29Z froggey: multithreading & BT support has been around for ages, SMP is specifically to take advantage of multicore/multicpu systems
2020-07-25T15:39:52Z froggey: with multiple threads running concurrently, instead of switching between them on a single core
2020-07-25T15:39:55Z phoe: oh, you mean that these threads all executed on a single CPU core?
2020-07-25T15:39:57Z phoe: I see
2020-07-25T15:40:15Z froggey: yes, that's how it was previously
2020-07-25T15:40:28Z froggey: now if you run it on a multicore cpu it'll take advantage of all the cores
2020-07-25T15:40:48Z mfiano: Amazing work you're doing froggey. Thanks!
2020-07-25T15:41:06Z phoe: yes, that's amazing work :O
2020-07-25T15:41:22Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:42:52Z froggey: thank you all
2020-07-25T15:43:10Z phoe: this is one amazing robustness and programmer quality of life release
2020-07-25T15:43:39Z phoe: I'll want to contribute one day and work on a non-StW GC for it
2020-07-25T15:43:50Z froggey: yes, no big flashy features this time, just behind the scenes stuff
2020-07-25T15:43:57Z phoe: that's the important stuff
2020-07-25T15:44:05Z phoe: that allows flashy stuff to get written
2020-07-25T15:44:46Z beach: phoe: So you are interested in garbage collection?  Have you read what my plans are for SICL (in the SICL specification)?
2020-07-25T15:44:50Z froggey: Doom did get a significant improvement from it: unboxed ub64 arithmetic means it doesn't cons anywhere near as much, so goes much longer between GCs
2020-07-25T15:45:32Z phoe: beach: I've taken a look but I don't remember anymore - could you link me?
2020-07-25T15:45:42Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:45:52Z beach: http://metamodular.com/SICL/sicl-specification.pdf I imagine.
2020-07-25T15:45:58Z beach: Let me verify...
2020-07-25T15:46:00Z phoe: maybe both SICL and Mezzano could benefit for it if we are real lucky and I actually finish that thing
2020-07-25T15:46:33Z puchacz: is SICL the framework for Clasp? I am getting lost with these new developments :)
2020-07-25T15:46:45Z phoe: kinda sorta no
2020-07-25T15:46:48Z beach: puchacz: Sort of.
2020-07-25T15:46:51Z puchacz: (I saw drmeister's video a while ago)
2020-07-25T15:46:54Z phoe: SICL is a new modular implementation of CL that's written in Lisp
2020-07-25T15:47:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T15:47:04Z phoe: Clasp is an implementation of CL that interoperates with C++
2020-07-25T15:47:13Z phoe: both share a compiler that's named Cleavir
2020-07-25T15:47:14Z beach: puchacz: Clasp uses a Cleavir-based compiler.  And Cleavir is part of the SICL *project*, but not of the SICL implementation.
2020-07-25T15:47:14Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:47:41Z phoe: the SICL version has evolved in its own way over time but some things get backported.
2020-07-25T15:47:43Z beach: I mean, SICL obviously also uses a Cleavir-based compiler.
2020-07-25T15:48:26Z puchacz: okay, so they share the compiler but other common lisp code is not shared, right?
2020-07-25T15:48:39Z aurelius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T15:48:44Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:48:52Z beach: Right.  The Common Lisp code of Clasp was taken from ECL.
2020-07-25T15:48:58Z phoe: don't know how much other SICL code Clasp uses; there'd probably be libs like Eclector though
2020-07-25T15:49:04Z phoe: I don't know if Clasp uses the ECL reader
2020-07-25T15:49:33Z beach: Me neither.
2020-07-25T15:49:33Z jackdaniel: clasp was forked from ecl where C core was rewritten in C++  with preserving semantics
2020-07-25T15:49:38Z jackdaniel: then it evolved further
2020-07-25T15:49:45Z puchacz: and if I want to use numerical libraries and do not use dreadful Python, which Lisp is my best best these days?
2020-07-25T15:49:48Z jackdaniel: and possibly replaced its reader with something else
2020-07-25T15:50:22Z phoe: puchacz: clasp is developed so existing C++ code can be reused from Lisp environment
2020-07-25T15:50:36Z phoe: so if you have any C++ libraries, then you should be able to use these from inside clasp
2020-07-25T15:50:42Z phoe: as for C libraries, everything that has CFFI should work
2020-07-25T15:50:45Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T15:51:00Z puchacz: ok
2020-07-25T15:54:47Z Frobozz_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:55:16Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T15:55:53Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T15:58:14Z Frobozz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T16:02:43Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T16:04:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:05:35Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:06:21Z Achylles quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T16:06:47Z phoe: beach: I've read it. I wonder if this stuff can be adapted to Mezzano?
2020-07-25T16:07:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T16:07:42Z phoe: Also, how does SICL the fact that the GC thread may allocate as well?
2020-07-25T16:07:51Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:07:52Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T16:08:27Z froggey: unlikely, SICL & Mezzano use wildly different object models, and SICL's GC depends heavily on the SICL object model
2020-07-25T16:09:07Z phoe: froggey: is the Mezzano one documented anywhere?
2020-07-25T16:10:13Z froggey: not yet, sorry
2020-07-25T16:11:09Z froggey: it changed a lot during development, but I think it's almost reached a stable point. it might be time to document it
2020-07-25T16:19:05Z Achylles joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:19:59Z froggey: the most significant difference between the two is that SICL uses a separate two-word header "object" ("dyad" I think it's called?) for all heap objects, while Mezzano keeps the header and object combined
2020-07-25T16:20:23Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T16:20:58Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:22:29Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T16:25:19Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:32:13Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-25T16:32:30Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:34:41Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-25T16:34:57Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:36:55Z lavaflow quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T16:37:11Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-25T16:38:35Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T16:42:25Z Achylles quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-25T16:42:27Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:44:06Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T16:44:19Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:44:44Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:48:30Z bhartrihari: Hi froggey, congrats for the new demo release. I'm trying to run it using qemu on GuixSD using the following command, but all I get is a black screen after it prints "Starting system" and the entrypoint. The command I'm using is sudo qemu-system-x86_64 -hda Mezzano.Demo.5.vmdk -m 2G -enable-kvm -vga virtio -display sdl,gl=on -net user -net nic,model=virtio
2020-07-25T16:48:35Z kpoeck joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:49:03Z bhartrihari: I've tried running both Mezzano and Mezzano Freestanding, both end up in a totally black screen.
2020-07-25T16:49:24Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T16:49:36Z froggey: can you remove "-vga virtio -display sdl,gl=on" and try again?
2020-07-25T16:49:43Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T16:49:44Z kpoeck: regarding clasps reader, clasp use eclector as its reader (and a c++ reader for bootstraping)
2020-07-25T16:50:49Z kpoeck: actually clasp seem to prove a lot of beach points regarding a cl-implementation bootraped from c/c++
2020-07-25T16:50:55Z bhartrihari: froggey, yes that worked.
2020-07-25T16:51:17Z froggey: do you have a NVIDIA graphics card?
2020-07-25T16:51:58Z bhartrihari: froggey, No. Intel 5000 graphics I think.
2020-07-25T16:52:27Z bhartrihari: It's a Macbook air, early 2015.
2020-07-25T16:52:42Z froggey: ok, thanks. I've had other people report problems with NVIDIA cards
2020-07-25T16:54:33Z parjanya quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-25T16:55:47Z lonjil: Mezzano is looking pretty slick. (though, I will probably never get used to emacs-like key bindings)
2020-07-25T16:56:37Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T16:57:37Z froggey: thanks, you can always build it yourself and change them
2020-07-25T16:59:28Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T17:00:36Z xristos: froggey: is there an architectural document somewhere that explains subsystems or gives a general overview of how it works?
2020-07-25T17:00:38Z xristos: maybe a paper
2020-07-25T17:02:25Z froggey: nope, sorry
2020-07-25T17:07:42Z scymtym joined #lisp
2020-07-25T17:07:42Z bitmapper quit
2020-07-25T17:11:25Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T17:12:27Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T17:13:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T17:17:01Z luckless_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-25T17:17:10Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T17:17:52Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-25T17:21:18Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-25T17:23:36Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-25T17:23:37Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-25T17:23:43Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-25T17:27:25Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T17:32:23Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T17:32:40Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T17:33:28Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T17:37:08Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T17:37:57Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T17:39:34Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T17:43:27Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T17:48:44Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T17:49:41Z beach: phoe: Yeah, I think froggey is right.  It depends crucially on the object representation.
2020-07-25T17:50:01Z beach: phoe: The GC threads should not allocate anything.
2020-07-25T17:50:12Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-25T17:51:15Z beach: kpoeck: What specific points are you thinking of?
2020-07-25T17:54:25Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T17:54:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T17:55:26Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:00:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-25T18:00:32Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:00:52Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:05:57Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:08:21Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:16:54Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:17:12Z kpoeck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T18:17:24Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T18:18:02Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:18:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T18:18:58Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:19:02Z kpoeck joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:19:20Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T18:19:25Z kpoeck: beach: in clasp we seem to need to load "inline.lisp" twice in order to get best results in some cases, perhaps because of a cyclic dependency
2020-07-25T18:19:37Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:20:07Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T18:20:10Z kpoeck: And in general we build in 3 phases, and definition for earlier phases must be written in pidgin common lisp
2020-07-25T18:20:24Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:20:54Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T18:21:11Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:21:42Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T18:24:11Z farooqkz__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T18:26:11Z krid quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T18:26:39Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-25T18:32:03Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:33:12Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:35:16Z aindilis quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T18:35:28Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:36:08Z markasoftware: If, for example, I have mutually exclusive initargs, is it sensible to have a :before method on initialize-instance to (assert (not (and initarg1 initarg2))) ?
2020-07-25T18:41:06Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:41:56Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T18:44:13Z natter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T18:46:18Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-25T18:47:10Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:47:36Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:48:41Z krid joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:49:49Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-25T18:51:42Z bsdhere joined #lisp
2020-07-25T18:53:45Z bsd4me quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T18:59:12Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T19:00:27Z jackdaniel: markasoftware: yes, some better error message could help
2020-07-25T19:00:49Z jackdaniel: and you usually want to check for initarg-supplied-p
2020-07-25T19:03:24Z kpoeck quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-25T19:03:31Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-25T19:06:09Z luckless joined #lisp
2020-07-25T19:06:14Z bsdhere quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-25T19:11:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T19:15:43Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-25T19:21:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T19:22:07Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T19:30:42Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T19:34:35Z borei joined #lisp
2020-07-25T19:47:52Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-25T19:49:52Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T19:55:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T19:55:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:05:36Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T20:06:14Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:06:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:07:01Z phoe: beach: then we're required to write the GC without any allocations, so we can't e.g. use #'mapcar or #'cons or such
2020-07-25T20:07:23Z phoe: unless we can DX everything
2020-07-25T20:08:56Z jfb4_ is now known as jfb4
2020-07-25T20:13:48Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:14:40Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:14:41Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-25T20:14:41Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:16:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T20:16:07Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:22:17Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-25T20:22:35Z satousan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T20:22:47Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:24:58Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:38:32Z liberliver quit (Quit: liberliver)
2020-07-25T20:39:14Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T20:39:18Z johnjay quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T20:39:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:42:51Z tutti joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:44:52Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-25T20:46:09Z uplime is now known as [
2020-07-25T20:48:06Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T20:49:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T20:58:27Z puchacz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T21:01:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T21:01:14Z bsd4me left #lisp
2020-07-25T21:01:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:09:26Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T21:10:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:12:05Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T21:14:11Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:19:25Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T21:20:33Z tutti quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-25T21:20:58Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:27:21Z nckx is now known as AMDinc
2020-07-25T21:27:28Z AMDinc is now known as nckx
2020-07-25T21:29:34Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T21:30:04Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-25T21:35:56Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:38:01Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T21:38:15Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:38:57Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:38:59Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T21:45:48Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:48:04Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T21:48:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:50:54Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T21:51:04Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:53:57Z jackhill quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T21:56:06Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T21:57:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T21:57:45Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T21:59:58Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-25T22:01:08Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-25T22:05:30Z markoong quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T22:11:00Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-25T22:15:51Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-25T22:20:59Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T22:21:49Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-25T22:22:16Z jackhill joined #lisp
2020-07-25T22:24:16Z minerjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T22:27:24Z minerjoe quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.52))
2020-07-25T22:28:19Z minerjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-25T22:28:50Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-25T22:45:53Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-25T22:46:15Z doublex quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-25T22:51:35Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T22:51:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T23:00:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-25T23:00:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T23:01:27Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-25T23:02:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T23:02:14Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-25T23:04:38Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-25T23:04:39Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-25T23:07:50Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-25T23:20:28Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-25T23:31:26Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-25T23:32:47Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T23:43:04Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-25T23:43:24Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-25T23:43:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T23:43:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-25T23:56:59Z minerjoe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-25T23:57:36Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-26T00:13:44Z borei quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-26T00:14:05Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T00:15:24Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T00:30:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T00:30:36Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T00:32:40Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-26T00:36:09Z saturn2: has anyone else noticed that dexador leaks file descriptors a lot?
2020-07-26T00:37:25Z notzmv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T00:38:41Z aeth: I realize that Apress as a publisher seems to be the only publisher publishing Common Lisp books, but... damn, I must have unsubscribed from their email spam 5x and I still get it.
2020-07-26T00:41:11Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-26T00:43:04Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-26T00:45:09Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-26T00:46:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T00:46:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T00:53:14Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-26T00:55:03Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-26T00:56:36Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-26T00:59:22Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T01:06:42Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-26T01:10:33Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-26T01:14:22Z kinope: I know next to nothing about garbage collectors, but out of curiosity, is it possible to provide an implementation of a  garbage collector to be used instead of the one that already exists? Perhaps to change it's characteristics to be more suited to soft-realtime applications.
2020-07-26T01:15:27Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-26T01:18:13Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T01:22:15Z netctrl joined #lisp
2020-07-26T01:23:34Z lucasb quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-26T01:25:11Z edgar-rft: kinope:  It's not possible to replace the builtin garbage collector entirely but there are many of ways to write your own memory management in Lisp, PAIP describes some of them (Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming by Peter Norvig).
2020-07-26T01:26:03Z edgar-rft: If you tell a specific example we can help you better :-)
2020-07-26T01:26:11Z saturn2: it's not intrinsically impossible, but most implementations don't allow it
2020-07-26T01:38:41Z White_Flame: many are still written in C instead of CL
2020-07-26T01:38:51Z White_Flame: as part of a bootstrap runtime
2020-07-26T01:39:22Z brettgilio joined #lisp
2020-07-26T01:42:23Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-26T01:42:44Z kinope: Okay cool, thanks guys. I don't have a specific example, just curious.
2020-07-26T01:47:02Z kinope: Looking closer at garbage collection may be in my future if I get into soft-realtime applications like games or media encoding/decoding and playback.
2020-07-26T01:47:56Z White_Flame: you can always try a poor man's version in sizing your nursery large enough to contain work done in a pass, and manually calling the GC
2020-07-26T01:48:10Z White_Flame: to attempt to normalize the gc pause times fairly well
2020-07-26T01:51:21Z kinope: Okay I'll try to remember that, now I know nurseries are a thing.
2020-07-26T01:51:44Z kinope: what is the purpose of a nursery?
2020-07-26T01:53:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T01:55:28Z edgar-rft: kinope: in games for example it's a common strategy to pre-allocate things you need at the beginning of the game, re-use them during the game as much as possible, and manually call the garbage collector when a level is finished.
2020-07-26T02:00:34Z kinope: Oh so is it possible to tell the garbage collector to not run automatically? or will it always be run under certain circumstances
2020-07-26T02:03:32Z saturn2: typically it will run every time the nursery becomes full
2020-07-26T02:06:09Z saturn2: the purpose of a nursery is to run the GC every time a certain amount of memory has been allocated, and to scan newly created objects more often, since they are more likely to be garbage
2020-07-26T02:09:42Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T02:10:23Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-26T02:18:28Z edgar-rft: kinope: in all Lisp implementations I know the garbage collector can be configured and also called manually from program code. But this is not specified by ANSI, instead you must read the manuals of the respective Common Lisp implementation.
2020-07-26T02:19:12Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-26T02:27:51Z aeth: kinope: you can use trivial-garbage
2020-07-26T02:28:18Z aeth: this, I think, but get it from Quicklisp. https://github.com/trivial-garbage/trivial-garbage
2020-07-26T02:29:15Z aeth: As a portability library, it's only going to offer you :full and :verbose, and only if both are supported... it could just be one or the other. https://github.com/trivial-garbage/trivial-garbage/blob/3d900ddd7b80a9ca8ff36de86f88e69d559a6127/trivial-garbage.lisp#L78
2020-07-26T02:30:43Z aeth: So, portably, (afaik) all you can do is (trivial-garbage:gc :full t) at the times when you know you can handle potential GC pauses, and hope that's enough to avoid it the rest of the time
2020-07-26T02:30:52Z xristos: i think it's safe to say that if you're after finegrained GC control, portability libraries is not the way to do it
2020-07-26T02:31:02Z xristos: rather focus on a specific implementation and see what it offers
2020-07-26T02:31:37Z aeth: If you focus on SBCL, you can just avoid allocating (it's hard, though) and profile everything for "consing" (heap allocations) to make sure nothing falls through. I think this means the GC won't run.
2020-07-26T02:32:15Z xristos: SBCL GC is quite configurable through various parameters
2020-07-26T02:32:30Z xristos: e.g. http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Garbage-Collection
2020-07-26T02:34:32Z aeth: kinope: In my game engine I just use SB-PROFILE to guarantee that the game loop (anything before is afaik fine) doesn't cons, mainly through preallocation but with a few tricky parts using (declare (dynamic-extent foo))
2020-07-26T02:34:51Z aeth: It's not as hard as it sounds because a game is probably mostly a bunch of single-float arrays.
2020-07-26T02:35:15Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T02:36:20Z aeth: It's not easy, though... e.g. I had to write my own vector math library because no one else has this constraint... and none of my example games using the engine avoid consing in the game loop
2020-07-26T02:38:23Z moon-child: if it's this fragile and this much work to maintain, I would rather just use a language with manual memory management.  (Or a lisp that uses rc?)
2020-07-26T02:39:40Z xristos: moon-child: i suggest you try it out and form your own conclusions, rather than accepting what people say on IRC as gospel
2020-07-26T02:39:46Z xristos: it can be as simple or as complex as you make it
2020-07-26T02:39:53Z xristos: and in many cases, it doesn't have to be complex
2020-07-26T02:40:10Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-26T02:42:12Z aeth: moon-child: I mean, nobody has to do this
2020-07-26T02:42:18Z aeth: moon-child: but it's probably still less work than using C++
2020-07-26T02:42:49Z aeth: And it compiles almost instantly, which is more than you can ask of any language I know of that has no GC
2020-07-26T02:44:20Z moon-child: I mean, gc is fine.  The only problem is tracing non-rt gc because it has unreliable pause times.  So, maybe clojure with zgc?
2020-07-26T02:45:04Z aeth: This isn't the channel to trashtalk other languages (#lispcafe is) but Clojure would be terrible for games because as I said they're basically just mutable arrays of single floats.
2020-07-26T02:45:05Z Archenoth quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T02:45:20Z aeth: So any language that focuses on immutability would either (1) make the efficient impossible or (2) make the efficient nonidiomatic
2020-07-26T02:45:48Z moon-child: (can also just accept the occasional stutters; they're not that bad.  It just seems to me like wasted effort to force a gc language to do non-gc stuff)
2020-07-26T02:46:12Z moon-child: aeth, depends on what part of the game.  Graphics is all mutable arrays of floats; other things get to be more interesting sometimes
2020-07-26T02:46:29Z aeth: You can GC as much as you want at macro time, or before the loop starts, or even between levels if you get that far.
2020-07-26T02:46:30Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-26T02:46:58Z aeth: You can also GC during the level if you're willing to lose some performance for the worst case, and you probably can. You can do a lot in 0.01 seconds.
2020-07-26T02:48:31Z moon-child: I wonder if running gc manually and keying it to player input would work?  Stutter doesn't really matter when you're not moving
2020-07-26T02:48:48Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T02:50:02Z aeth: Most things you think of that can allocate wouldn't be allocating in the normal part of a game loop unless you're doing some building game, and even then you could probably come up with an architecture
2020-07-26T02:50:23Z aeth: I guess maybe open world level streaming or something, but open worlds are expensive to make
2020-07-26T02:50:54Z moon-child: (spawn-enemy)
2020-07-26T02:54:39Z aeth: moon-child: non-consing: https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zombie-raptor/-/blob/6ce486bd05eae054f0907767d807c1bf3cdae049/entity/entity.lisp#L166
2020-07-26T02:56:24Z aeth: although to be fair, it would be potentially consing if I didn't have an entity limit (preallocated in advance) and it adjusted to make room for new entities when the entities were full
2020-07-26T02:56:46Z moon-child: ha, fair enough
2020-07-26T02:57:27Z aeth: and, worse, if adjustable it would insert bounds checks on every array access since now it wouldn't know at compile time what the length is
2020-07-26T02:57:45Z aeth: I think it's far more impressive that almost every bounds check isn't there in SBCL than that it's non-consing
2020-07-26T02:58:07Z aeth: Known entity-limit => known to be in bounds if not full.
2020-07-26T02:58:49Z saturn2: if you could just limit the garbage collector to only run for a certain amount of time per cycle, that would probably be good enough for most games
2020-07-26T02:59:16Z moon-child: what's wrong with concurrent gc?
2020-07-26T02:59:28Z aeth: I mean, I have 12 cores 24 threads, use them all
2020-07-26T03:00:53Z saturn2: moon-child: there aren't enough sbcl developers to write one
2020-07-26T03:01:28Z Alfr__ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T03:05:22Z Alfr_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T03:20:24Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-26T03:24:26Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T03:31:08Z White_Flame: also fully current GCs slow down the system
2020-07-26T03:31:23Z White_Flame: *concurrent
2020-07-26T03:32:01Z White_Flame: the main code will usually need additional read and/or write barriers on everything
2020-07-26T03:32:09Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-26T03:41:48Z bernard__ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T03:42:27Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T03:42:56Z bernard__ left #lisp
2020-07-26T03:52:38Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-26T03:54:25Z moon-child: White_Flame: this isn't the 90s.  A loss in performance in exchange for better abstractions is an acceptable tradeoff
2020-07-26T03:54:53Z White_Flame: well, real-time tends to be about performance
2020-07-26T03:55:12Z White_Flame: a subsection of which is latency
2020-07-26T03:57:16Z moon-child: real-time means, effectively, no latency.  Real-time GCs have minimal effect on latency.  (Not something you'd want to use for HFT, but zgc max pause time is 1ms--more than reasonable for video games, where a frame is 16ms)
2020-07-26T03:57:54Z White_Flame: unless you're munching enough memory to trigger 8+ of those per frame ;)
2020-07-26T03:58:48Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-26T03:59:17Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-26T03:59:46Z White_Flame: but still, the tradeoff could still be that your frame runs in 12ms + long GC pauses, or in 20ms with realtime GC/short pauses
2020-07-26T04:00:28Z moon-child: I would take the latter any day
2020-07-26T04:00:38Z White_Flame: (numbers pulled from the Department of Posterior Fabrication)
2020-07-26T04:01:14Z moon-child: iirc worst-case performance hit was 40-50%.  Average more like 15%
2020-07-26T04:01:59Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-26T04:05:47Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T04:08:18Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-26T04:10:45Z equwal joined #lisp
2020-07-26T04:19:10Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-26T04:22:54Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-26T04:23:33Z aurelius quit
2020-07-26T04:25:20Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-26T04:29:08Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-26T04:40:54Z seok: why is C-c C-c unbound on my emacs
2020-07-26T04:40:56Z seok: : /
2020-07-26T04:41:08Z seok: which mode enables C-c C-c?
2020-07-26T04:41:26Z seok: its disabled for one buffer only
2020-07-26T04:43:27Z seok: bah. restart fixed it
2020-07-26T04:43:38Z seok: slimes been buggy last couple of days
2020-07-26T04:59:35Z White_Flame: make sure to add (setq bugs nil) in your .emacs file
2020-07-26T05:00:50Z kinope: I had to duck out, but I appreciate the discussion re: garbage collection.
2020-07-26T05:03:25Z krid quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T05:06:32Z seok: White_Flame lol
2020-07-26T05:12:47Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T05:14:28Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T05:15:09Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-26T05:15:57Z tmpnode1 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T05:16:18Z aeth: moon-child: Don't tie your logic to your graphics framerate or you introduce all sorts of fun bugs because the varying physics step size can produce very different results... The renderer runs at 16 ms, but the logic can run at anything. 10 ms is a nice, round number for that.
2020-07-26T05:17:32Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T05:17:35Z aeth: White_Flame: Using a RTGC for RT programming is about predictability, not necessarily being faster. A fixed overhead is better (less noticable) than dropping frames with a GC pause.
2020-07-26T05:20:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T05:22:04Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-26T05:28:50Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-26T05:33:04Z beach: kinope: So, in summary, the garbage collector is most often tied to the data representation of the Common Lisp implementation, so you typically can't replace it with a different one.  You can, of course, implement a totally different garbage-collection algorithm for a particular implementation, but that's a lot of work.
2020-07-26T05:35:23Z beach: kinope: Another important piece of information is that most current Common Lisp implementations were written several decades ago, so the garbage-collection technology they use is from that time.  A lot of progress has been made on garbage collection since then.
2020-07-26T05:35:54Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-26T05:36:24Z even4void joined #lisp
2020-07-26T05:48:22Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-26T05:50:25Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T06:07:29Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-26T06:09:12Z im663 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T06:09:53Z im663: Hi there, I was trying to get a lisp project up and running, and I was running into an error, I'm not sure if there are any mastadon/gab users that are interesting in possibly looking at the code with me
2020-07-26T06:10:47Z im663: https://github.com/compufox/tootapult
2020-07-26T06:11:45Z im663: When I attempt to use gab.com as my instance I get a "Invalid URI scheme: ~S" error, this is not the case however with other Mastadon instances, I'm not exactly sure why this is occuring
2020-07-26T06:32:59Z tmpnode1: Hello, having problems with troubleshooting the alien-funcall function in SBCL lisp.I am trying to call this function from c:char* hello (char* name){  char* test = strcat("Hello ", name);  return (test);}The lisp code is:(let ((name (make-alien (* char) (length "test")))))(setf name "test")(alien-funcall (extern-alien "hello" (function (* char) (*
2020-07-26T06:33:00Z tmpnode1: char)) name))
2020-07-26T06:33:47Z moon-child: aeth: I don't mean tie logic to framerate.  I mean, trigger collection cycles manually when there's not a lot happening on the screen so a stutter wouldn't be as noticeable
2020-07-26T06:35:42Z tmpnode1: The main part I am scratching my head at is: (alien-funcall (extern-alien "hello" (function (* char) (* char)) name))
2020-07-26T06:37:30Z markasoftware: when are the :type s verified in a class?
2020-07-26T06:38:21Z brettgilio left #lisp
2020-07-26T06:38:47Z beach: markasoftware: Depends on the implementation.  I think SBCL does it with high DEBUG setting.  Unfortunately, the DEBUG setting in SBCL is not at its highest by default.
2020-07-26T06:38:58Z markasoftware: so it's not checked at all usually?
2020-07-26T06:39:01Z markasoftware: this is highly disappointing
2020-07-26T06:41:03Z aeth: The SBCL solution is to use DEFSTRUCT when types matter, but unfortunately some other implementations check in DEFCLASS, but not in DEFSTRUCT
2020-07-26T06:45:22Z aeth: So there are two directions you can go when you must type check. You can write a DEFSTRUCT* that inserts CHECK-TYPEs in those non-SBCL implementations when they're missing, or you can use the Metaobject Protocol to guarantee type checks in a metaclass so you can use DEFCLASS.
2020-07-26T07:03:46Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T07:04:20Z brown121408 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:04:53Z brown121408 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-26T07:06:19Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T07:07:09Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:07:36Z beach: tmpnode1: Since you are using SBCL-specific stuff, you may want to ask in #sbcl.  Or, even better, you can program in Common Lisp instead.
2020-07-26T07:12:49Z minerjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:21:19Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:21:43Z even4void quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-26T07:22:01Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:23:46Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T07:26:24Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:27:17Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-26T07:27:40Z space_otter quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T07:33:05Z tmpnode1: beach will do
2020-07-26T07:33:38Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:37:42Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:37:42Z retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:39:52Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:45:18Z retropikzel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T07:46:47Z retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:50:05Z space_otter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T07:55:28Z seok53 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T07:55:31Z seok53 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T07:55:52Z seok: Is writing to file acid?
2020-07-26T07:56:20Z seok: How can I make it y
2020-07-26T07:56:23Z seok: acid
2020-07-26T07:57:01Z phoe: not without some OS support I think
2020-07-26T07:57:12Z seok: Hi phoe
2020-07-26T07:57:15Z phoe: I don't think you can easily make it transactional
2020-07-26T07:57:36Z seok: maybe I can make a temporary folder
2020-07-26T07:57:44Z seok: and move when done instead?
2020-07-26T07:58:12Z phoe: I think that's the closest to acid that you can get, yes - write elsewhere, and then move
2020-07-26T07:58:33Z seok: ugh, might be safer to use postgres
2020-07-26T07:59:43Z phoe: I agree with that one
2020-07-26T07:59:51Z brettgilio joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:03:31Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:03:50Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T08:07:31Z sailorCat joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:15:44Z beach: clhs make-condition
2020-07-26T08:15:45Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_cnd.htm
2020-07-26T08:16:20Z beach: That page says that the required argument is a type specifier, but can it ever be something other than a class or a symbol?
2020-07-26T08:16:20Z tmpnode1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T08:19:25Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T08:19:44Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:20:38Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-26T08:21:25Z phoe: beach: there's been arguments about it.
2020-07-26T08:21:44Z phoe: In theory, one could (make-condition '(and error warning) ...) because that is a type specifier in there
2020-07-26T08:22:07Z phoe: but in practice, implementations disallow anything that isn't a symbol or a class in there
2020-07-26T08:22:30Z beach: OK, we seem to share the same analysis.
2020-07-26T08:22:32Z beach: Thanks.
2020-07-26T08:23:14Z phoe: SBCL signals an error, CCL as well, ECL as well
2020-07-26T08:23:36Z phoe: ...CLISP actually performs some backflips to make it work
2020-07-26T08:23:41Z phoe: [1]> (make-condition '(and simple-condition error))
2020-07-26T08:23:41Z phoe: #<SIMPLE-ERROR #x000000800033D2F9>
2020-07-26T08:23:47Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:24:07Z beach: Good to know that I am in good company.
2020-07-26T08:24:19Z ldb: hello #lisp.
2020-07-26T08:24:30Z beach: Hello ldb.
2020-07-26T08:25:16Z phoe: but CLISP complains that MAKE-CONDITION: cannot find a CONDITION class that is a subtype of (AND ERROR (SATISFIES FOO))
2020-07-26T08:25:25Z phoe: so it's not all that omnipotent
2020-07-26T08:25:30Z beach: I see.
2020-07-26T08:26:09Z ldb: Today I find a well formatted PDF of CLtL2 in Axiom CAS's code archieve, it is better than the one avaliable from CMU AI Repo, with full index and hyperlinks enabled.
2020-07-26T08:26:34Z beach: phoe: So, as I just said in #sicl, I think I will make make-condition a generic function.  The default method signals an error.  The method specialized to SYMBOL does a FIND-CLASS with ERROR-P being true.  And the method specialized to CONDITION-CLASS calls MAKE-INSTANCE.
2020-07-26T08:27:04Z phoe: yes, I suggest you treat it the same way as MAKE-INSTANCE which seems to be the way to go
2020-07-26T08:27:23Z beach: OK, thanks for confirming.
2020-07-26T08:28:24Z beach: I was concerned about giving good error messages in case things go wrong.
2020-07-26T08:28:32Z beach: I think I can with my suggestion.
2020-07-26T08:29:13Z phoe: sure, if the thing is of unknown type then you could signal a type-error and/or no-applicable-method; if no class is found then class-not-found or whatever else you have; elsewhere you can proceed with make-instance
2020-07-26T08:29:30Z beach: Exactly.
2020-07-26T08:34:03Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:36:32Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:36:32Z jonatack quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T08:36:40Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-26T08:36:40Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:40:21Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:41:13Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-26T08:41:33Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:49:00Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:49:12Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-26T08:49:19Z aurelius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T08:49:26Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:55:16Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-26T08:55:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-26T08:56:25Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T09:01:01Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-26T09:01:38Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T09:02:25Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-26T09:07:22Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T09:10:04Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T09:11:38Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-26T09:17:16Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T09:22:19Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-26T09:23:36Z im663 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T09:26:16Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T09:27:13Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-26T09:31:40Z farooqkz__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T09:41:32Z heredoc quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-26T09:43:32Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-26T09:45:52Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T09:49:09Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-26T09:54:05Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T09:55:00Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:03:16Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T10:04:38Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:06:43Z heredoc joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:10:58Z drot quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T10:11:34Z shinohai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T10:14:27Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T10:14:54Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T10:15:14Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:16:00Z beach: phoe: Since you are an expert in the condition system, I would like to bounce an idea on you.  The basis for my idea is that I want to be able to make condition reporters subject to internationalization.  I would like to know whether my idea is conforming, given the phrase in the standard saying that defining :REPORT is "equivalent to... (DEFMETHOD PRINT-OBJECT....)".
2020-07-26T10:16:15Z beach: So the idea is as follows: I define a mixin class for condition classes.  It is included in the list of superclasses when the :REPORT option is given and not otherwise.
2020-07-26T10:16:19Z beach: PRINT-OBJECT has a single method (DEFMETHOD PRINT-OBJECT ((OBJECT THAT-MIXIN-CLASS) STREAM) (IF *PRINT-ESCAPE* (CALL-NEXT-METHOD) (PRINT-CONDITION OBJECT STREAM))).
2020-07-26T10:16:26Z beach: PRINT-CONDITION trampolines to (PRINT-CONDITION-USING-CLIENT *CLIENT* OBJECT STREAM).
2020-07-26T10:16:30Z beach: The default condition on PRINT-CONDITION-USING-CLIENT accesses the print function in the mixin class.  But client code can define methods on PRINT-CONDITION-USING-CLIENT specialized to other clients, and those methods can print using a different language or whatever.
2020-07-26T10:17:18Z beach: This idea not only allows for internationalization, but it also avoids adding and removing methods from PRINT-METHOD when the condition class is defined/redefined.
2020-07-26T10:18:21Z beach: s/The default condition/The default method/
2020-07-26T10:19:51Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:20:05Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:24:44Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-26T10:25:12Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:25:28Z beach: phoe: I am taking a long-ish lunch break, but I'll read any opinions of yours when I get back.
2020-07-26T10:32:25Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T10:36:46Z phoe: beach: that's the way I imagined.
2020-07-26T10:37:16Z phoe: I mean, when I started reading this block of text, I was like, "oh, he wants to do that with clients"
2020-07-26T10:37:21Z phoe: and I wasn't disappointed
2020-07-26T10:38:25Z phoe: internationalized code can define its own client class; if anything, you could possibly extend DEFINE-CONDITION :REPORT to accept some sort of client argument that will allow one to easily write multiple :REPORT clauses for different langs.
2020-07-26T10:41:36Z drot joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:41:46Z farooqkz__ is now known as shangul
2020-07-26T10:42:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T10:42:27Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:48:17Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:51:08Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:57:22Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:57:34Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:57:45Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-26T10:58:21Z q3d joined #lisp
2020-07-26T10:58:40Z ldb quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-26T10:58:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T10:59:47Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T11:01:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:01:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:01:57Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:04:59Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T11:05:06Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-26T11:08:44Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T11:17:05Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:17:25Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:19:39Z q3d quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-26T11:28:24Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T11:28:38Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T11:28:46Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:29:35Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:31:39Z oni-on-ion joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:33:03Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:33:54Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:43:31Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T11:45:07Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T11:46:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:47:09Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-26T11:47:18Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:50:37Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T11:52:47Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T11:56:36Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-26T11:56:47Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-26T11:58:51Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:00:39Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:02:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:06:46Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:07:15Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:07:47Z beach: phoe: Thanks.
2020-07-26T12:09:08Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:09:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:10:09Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:10:25Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:10:42Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-26T12:10:44Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:10:48Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:11:41Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:12:50Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:17:12Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-26T12:17:30Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:19:53Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:20:50Z puchacz joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:21:24Z puchacz: hi, can I re-signal the same condition from handler-bind ? or from handler-case ?
2020-07-26T12:23:25Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:24:24Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:28:10Z phoe: puchacz: yes
2020-07-26T12:28:12Z phoe: but
2020-07-26T12:28:31Z phoe: the idea is that the situation you're resignaling must be *the same* situation that you are trying to handle
2020-07-26T12:29:15Z puchacz: phoe: yes, the same situation. I wanted to do what I do in Java try {...} catch (MyException e) { do something, then throw e; }
2020-07-26T12:29:16Z puchacz: the same e
2020-07-26T12:29:44Z puchacz: so here I would get e, do something and (signal e)
2020-07-26T12:29:47Z puchacz: right?
2020-07-26T12:29:50Z paul0 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-26T12:30:06Z phoe: you want handler-case, not handler-bind, for emulating try/catch
2020-07-26T12:30:09Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:30:19Z phoe: or rather, try/catch/rethrow
2020-07-26T12:30:36Z puchacz: so calling signal on the condition that I already received is ok, isn't it?
2020-07-26T12:30:42Z phoe: note that you don't need to resignal the same condition if your handler is created using handler-bind instead and simply declines to handle the condition
2020-07-26T12:30:50Z phoe: this way next handlers will get a chance to be invoked.
2020-07-26T12:31:12Z phoe: so resignaling conditions from handler-case might not be the most idiomatic way of achieving the same thing in CL
2020-07-26T12:31:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:31:29Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:31:49Z phoe: "is ok" - again, depends on your use case
2020-07-26T12:31:54Z puchacz: sounds like I should use handler-bind ((serious-condition (lambda (e) (do-somethign e))) body and it gets "retrhown" automatically
2020-07-26T12:32:03Z phoe: not really "rethrown"
2020-07-26T12:32:08Z phoe: it just doesn't get handled
2020-07-26T12:32:17Z phoe: but, yes, I'd suggest that
2020-07-26T12:32:29Z puchacz: okay, thanks :)
2020-07-26T12:32:36Z phoe: this way you get to execute some code and then let other handlers higher up the stack get a chance at handling it
2020-07-26T12:33:12Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-26T12:37:27Z puchacz: phoe: is the only difference between handler-case / signal and handler bind that in handler-case, does not matter if I re-signal or not, the stack is unwound, so I have no restarts?
2020-07-26T12:38:11Z puchacz: actually, no
2020-07-26T12:39:23Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:39:52Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:40:03Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:40:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:41:06Z minerjoe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:41:30Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:46:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:47:58Z Ven`` joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:48:46Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T12:49:42Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T12:59:49Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T13:00:07Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:06:46Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:08:06Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-26T13:12:17Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:13:09Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:13:10Z Lycurgus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T13:31:47Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:32:33Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:37:40Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T13:39:30Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:41:17Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:45:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T13:47:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:49:51Z phoe: puchacz: handler-case always transfers control
2020-07-26T13:50:00Z phoe: handler-bind doesn't necessarily do that
2020-07-26T13:50:17Z phoe: handler-case first performs a non-local exit and then executes forms
2020-07-26T13:50:40Z phoe: handler-bind just executes some code at the signaling site
2020-07-26T13:51:16Z ravndal joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:52:36Z phoe: I don't understand the "no restarts" part though
2020-07-26T13:54:06Z phoe: if I understand you correctly, then unwinding the stack may disestablish some restarts, and then COMPUTE-RESTARTS will have fewer restarts to find than if it was executed without first unwinding the stack
2020-07-26T13:54:07Z puchacz: phoe: I got confused with restarts as I see in emacs. this is debugger thing, orthogonal to handler-bind vs handler-case
2020-07-26T13:54:26Z phoe: not strictly debugger, but yes, the debugger tends to utilize those a real lot
2020-07-26T13:54:42Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:54:51Z phoe: if you land in the debugger, it's most often because #'ERROR was called and nothing handled the signaled condition
2020-07-26T13:55:01Z phoe: which calls INVOKE-DEBUGGER and bam, you're in the debugger
2020-07-26T13:55:18Z phoe: and the easiest option to leave it is to invoke a restart of some sort
2020-07-26T13:55:30Z puchacz: so if I have (block whatever (handler-bind ((serious-condition (lambda (e) (return-from whatever))) ....) is it like (handler-case ... (serious-condition () )) ?
2020-07-26T13:55:45Z puchacz: to take into account non-local exit
2020-07-26T13:56:03Z phoe: that's going to be equivalent, yes
2020-07-26T13:56:12Z puchacz: I think I got it then, thanks again :)
2020-07-26T13:56:23Z phoe: it becomes less equivalent if the function is more complex than a simple RETURN-FROM
2020-07-26T13:56:30Z phoe: but for this simple case it's equivalent
2020-07-26T13:56:57Z puchacz: the function that contains the whole handler or the function that is invoked on condition in handler-bind you mean?
2020-07-26T13:57:12Z phoe: I mean the concrete control flow
2020-07-26T13:57:29Z phoe: with HANDLER-CASE, you need to account for the fact that you first transfer control, and then execute handler forms
2020-07-26T13:58:04Z phoe: and this means a somewhat more complex net of possible control transfers e.g. via TAGBODY and GO
2020-07-26T13:58:20Z phoe: ;; shameless plug: see my upcoming book for details
2020-07-26T13:58:29Z puchacz: oh, yes, please
2020-07-26T13:58:49Z puchacz: but still not available....
2020-07-26T13:59:00Z phoe: yes, it'll be available later this year
2020-07-26T13:59:06Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-26T13:59:13Z phoe: but anyway - I think the CLHS page has an example of translating these
2020-07-26T13:59:15Z phoe: clhs handler-case
2020-07-26T13:59:15Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_hand_1.htm
2020-07-26T13:59:22Z puchacz: tks
2020-07-26T13:59:36Z phoe: that example is a bit buggy but should work for illustrating the thing
2020-07-26T13:59:54Z phoe: the proper handler function first transfers the condition object outside the handler by setting a variable it closes over
2020-07-26T14:00:06Z phoe: then it performs a jump to the proper tag
2020-07-26T14:00:38Z phoe: and then the proper set of handler forms is executed with the condition object bound to a lexivar
2020-07-26T14:00:56Z phoe: and everything returns the values from an outermost block
2020-07-26T14:01:29Z phoe: there's also :NO-ERROR that is orthogonal because it's always possible to split a HANDLER-CASE with a :NO-ERROR into some code + a HANDLER-CASE without :NO-ERROR
2020-07-26T14:04:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T14:04:53Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:05:28Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:07:33Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-26T14:10:32Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-26T14:11:37Z ravndal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T14:14:53Z rawr is now known as grumble
2020-07-26T14:15:00Z ravndal joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:15:43Z ralt joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:15:57Z ralt: Hello
2020-07-26T14:16:09Z ralt: Is there a sharplispers thing for cl-fuse?
2020-07-26T14:16:51Z ralt: The library is completely unmaintained and has a couple of bugs and severely limiting features, I'm wondering if I should just maintain a fork or if there's another solution that's potentially more community-friendly
2020-07-26T14:17:00Z ravndal quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-26T14:18:01Z ralt: (one bug is this https://github.com/ralt/cl-fuse/commit/21580751eadb8c1dcd29a39aecf56b369e4a7cfa)
2020-07-26T14:18:38Z ravndal joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:19:23Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T14:19:48Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:20:42Z add^_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T14:22:13Z add^_ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:24:25Z MichaelRaskin: Hm, never actually used the rename as rename (mv does cp-and-rm on my FS'es missing the rename). Thanks for the information
2020-07-26T14:28:06Z MichaelRaskin: ralt: It is mostly unmaintained because I have no damned idea what people would find useful direction for its extension; all my use cases are covered by different queries for QueryFS, but I do use CL-FUSE based tooling literally daily.
2020-07-26T14:28:12Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:28:42Z ralt: MichaelRaskin: oh, great
2020-07-26T14:29:09Z ralt: The other gripe I have with it is the inability to set stat() data, e.g. mtime
2020-07-26T14:29:23Z MichaelRaskin: I am not perfectly sure if there are remaining libfuse version issues for dropping fuse-launcher
2020-07-26T14:29:38Z ralt: I'm writing a fuse fs that represents a git repository, so mtime is a fairly important metadata
2020-07-26T14:29:44Z MichaelRaskin: (symbol versioning is horrible and I gave up at some point)
2020-07-26T14:29:48Z MichaelRaskin: Ah
2020-07-26T14:29:57Z ralt: I haven't dug that deep into the lib
2020-07-26T14:30:21Z MichaelRaskin: I think once I have a monotone fs somewhere, but for git libgit wrappers were broken an I never returned to look at it
2020-07-26T14:32:27Z ralt: Hm, so, are you the maintainer? If so, should I report those issues somewhere? The monotone links all give 404, so it felt like just abandoned to me
2020-07-26T14:32:55Z MichaelRaskin: Well, at some point public monotone hostings died out, sadly.
2020-07-26T14:33:37Z MichaelRaskin: I guess Gitlab.Common-Lisp.net is the most canonical public repo now
2020-07-26T14:34:01Z ralt: ah, damn...
2020-07-26T14:34:41Z ralt: I can't manage to get an account on this gitlab
2020-07-26T14:34:49Z MichaelRaskin: (I am not sure if notifications work; I periodically _try_ to enable email notifications there; I do read the email listed in the Online Lisp Meeting talk slides, and I have an always-on bot in #query-fs)
2020-07-26T14:34:58Z coltkirk: does anyone use Colleek irc bot framework itc
2020-07-26T14:35:00Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-26T14:35:07Z coltkirk: i mean *colleen
2020-07-26T14:35:23Z p_l: Shinmera? :)
2020-07-26T14:35:38Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:36:28Z MichaelRaskin: ralt: is «reported by Florian Margaine (ralt)» a reasonable acnowledgement or do you prefer something else?
2020-07-26T14:36:39Z ralt: That's fine, thanks!
2020-07-26T14:36:41Z beach: coltkirk: Yes, where minion is not present, Colleen comes in handy.
2020-07-26T14:36:55Z beach: coltkirk: Oh, framework, sorry.
2020-07-26T14:37:03Z beach: I thought you meant the bot itself.
2020-07-26T14:37:09Z coltkirk: oh i'd be interested in minion
2020-07-26T14:37:38Z p_l: I think most of minion sources might be included in cl-irc?
2020-07-26T14:37:59Z p_l: the actual running minion might have diverged, though
2020-07-26T14:38:14Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T14:38:30Z p_l: coltkirk: I honestly would recommend Colleen rather than minion as a base for something new :V
2020-07-26T14:38:34Z puchacz: is it possible to set up via command line args or something a package different to cl-user in sbcl?
2020-07-26T14:38:56Z p_l: puchacz: wdym? that REPL starts in different package?
2020-07-26T14:39:03Z ravndal quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-26T14:39:49Z puchacz: when I start sbcl, I can evaluate *package* and I get:
2020-07-26T14:39:50Z puchacz: * *package*#<PACKAGE "COMMON-LISP-USER">
2020-07-26T14:40:32Z MichaelRaskin: ralt: I also still have access to that github account, and I have a bot writing logs for me in #query-fs
2020-07-26T14:40:40Z puchacz: p_l: can I put something to --eval or other command line option to sbcl to have another package on startup by default?
2020-07-26T14:41:01Z ralt: MichaelRaskin: great, I'm reassured
2020-07-26T14:41:15Z ralt: What kind of logs is the bot writing?
2020-07-26T14:41:20Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:41:26Z p_l: puchacz: let me build sbcl in a moment
2020-07-26T14:41:33Z MichaelRaskin: Just the normal channel logs via ii
2020-07-26T14:41:34Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T14:42:29Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:42:47Z MichaelRaskin: My main laptop ii is rarely online during the weekdays, but I do check for updates in the selected low-traffic channels via another ii instance on a VPS
2020-07-26T14:45:17Z MichaelRaskin: ralt: what you actually want to use in stat? I already have executable/writeable callbacks, so a times callback returning 0 to 3 values mtime (default=epoch), ctime (default=mtime) and atime (default=mtime) sounds like the simplest plan.
2020-07-26T14:45:41Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:46:14Z ralt: MichaelRaskin: right now mtime only, but yes, simple callbacks for most values probably makes sense
2020-07-26T14:46:42Z MichaelRaskin: On the other hand, you can just redefine a fuse callback for getattr from scratch if you want.
2020-07-26T14:46:42Z ralt: Or a global getattr callback
2020-07-26T14:46:50Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T14:47:03Z ralt: oh, I haven't actually tried to do that
2020-07-26T14:47:41Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:47:46Z p_l: puchacz: sbcl --eval "(progn (defpackage :foo (:use :common-lisp)) (in-package :foo))"
2020-07-26T14:47:50Z MichaelRaskin: (fuse-path-callback getattr …) is a kind of a default implementation of a lispy wrapper; overriding would work fine
2020-07-26T14:48:11Z ralt: The existing callback is not that big, so it doesn't sound too hard to write from scratch. I didn't yet look if the fuse-callback macro was exported and if it was redefineable though
2020-07-26T14:48:13Z puchacz: p_l: trying
2020-07-26T14:48:35Z MichaelRaskin: fuse-callback is exported
2020-07-26T14:48:38Z shinohai joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:48:43Z puchacz: p_l: thanks!
2020-07-26T14:48:47Z puchacz: it worked
2020-07-26T14:48:47Z MichaelRaskin: Hm, fuse-path-callback is not, and this is a bug…
2020-07-26T14:48:51Z p_l: np
2020-07-26T14:49:23Z MichaelRaskin: If you are going to use mtime, adding a lisp callback for mtime makes sense. Otherwise… see rename's fate
2020-07-26T14:49:35Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:50:22Z MichaelRaskin: Hm; for git-fs I am not even sure if you would prefer cl-fuse or cl-fuse-meta-fs. I guess your interface to git works with whole paths, so cl-fuse-meta-fs makes no sense for this task
2020-07-26T14:54:01Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T14:56:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-26T14:56:58Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T14:58:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T15:00:27Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-26T15:05:47Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T15:06:45Z mokulus joined #lisp
2020-07-26T15:07:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T15:07:59Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T15:13:09Z krid joined #lisp
2020-07-26T15:13:45Z sailorCat quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-26T15:14:38Z MichaelRaskin: ralt: times added
2020-07-26T15:16:02Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T15:17:01Z oni-on-ion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T15:31:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-26T15:33:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T15:37:35Z theBlackDragon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T15:38:24Z ralt: MichaelRaskin: thanks!
2020-07-26T15:39:29Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-26T15:39:33Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2020-07-26T15:41:00Z ralt: MichaelRaskin: the code is here if you want to take a peak https://gitlab.com/ralt/labfuse (worth noting that is very much WIP)
2020-07-26T15:41:36Z ralt: MichaelRaskin: also, while you're around, I haven't managed to figure out if cl-fuse enables multithreading or not?
2020-07-26T15:41:52Z MichaelRaskin: ralt: I think your repo is private
2020-07-26T15:42:13Z phoe: cannot access that repo either
2020-07-26T15:42:21Z MichaelRaskin: Well, complicated… look at the fuse-test.lisp , there is some support
2020-07-26T15:42:30Z ralt: My bad, fixed
2020-07-26T15:42:39Z ralt: I'll look, thanks
2020-07-26T15:43:21Z ralt: The basic idea of the repo is to have all of your private gitlab exposed by fuse and to lazily fetch git repos when asked for... I still need to add a readme :)
2020-07-26T15:44:25Z krid quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T15:44:28Z ralt: a-ha, that's what :call-manager is for, thanks
2020-07-26T15:44:44Z MichaelRaskin: ralt: you might also want to see what cl-fuse-meta-fs does with call-manager
2020-07-26T15:46:00Z MichaelRaskin: Which is probably not very good but seems good enough for last many years of my use
2020-07-26T15:46:29Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T15:46:55Z ralt: Using a thread pool?
2020-07-26T15:46:59Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-26T15:47:25Z ralt: That makes a lot of sense
2020-07-26T15:47:38Z MichaelRaskin: Yep, slapped together _something_ on top of pcall library
2020-07-26T15:49:50Z MichaelRaskin: ralt: BTW, one option you might take is using cl-fuse-meta-fs to cleanly separate the «list-groups» logic and «list group projects» logic, and then at the project level return a symlink to a fetched-and-just-updated checkout
2020-07-26T15:50:25Z ralt: No, I want to be a bit smarter with storage
2020-07-26T15:50:40Z ralt: I store a single .git/ folder and each branch ends up reusing the same one
2020-07-26T15:50:53Z MichaelRaskin: Well, you can also use git worktrees
2020-07-26T15:50:58Z MichaelRaskin: But sure.
2020-07-26T15:51:02Z ralt: (by exposing a different .git/index file)
2020-07-26T15:51:16Z MichaelRaskin: By the way, you are allowed to pass nil instead of most callbacks
2020-07-26T15:52:23Z MichaelRaskin: So if you are read-only, no need to define unlink
2020-07-26T15:53:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T15:53:13Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T15:57:13Z ralt: I plan on making it read-write, but thanks
2020-07-26T15:57:25Z ralt: As for git work trees, the idea is that it's transparent for the user
2020-07-26T15:58:36Z MichaelRaskin: I guess I am biased by the fact I use Nixpkgs. Which means a… pretty large checkout I would not want to feed through FUSE
2020-07-26T16:03:36Z seok: How do I mutate a list so resulting list is eq original list?
2020-07-26T16:05:25Z p_l: EQ will only check the first cons pair, so if you mutate any cons pair later in the list it will still be EQ
2020-07-26T16:06:01Z seok: I mean
2020-07-26T16:06:09Z seok: (defvar x '(0 1)
2020-07-26T16:06:15Z seok: (defvar y x)
2020-07-26T16:06:24Z seok: then mutate list in x
2020-07-26T16:06:27Z phoe: seok: mutating literal data is undefined
2020-07-26T16:06:30Z phoe: use (list 0 1) instead
2020-07-26T16:06:39Z seok: Ah ok
2020-07-26T16:06:44Z phoe: for the two to be EQ, they must be the same cons
2020-07-26T16:06:50Z seok: So I should use CLOS instead?
2020-07-26T16:06:55Z phoe: so you cannot mutate X, you can only mutate the CAR or CDR of X
2020-07-26T16:06:59Z phoe: what do you mean, use clos?
2020-07-26T16:07:03Z seok: this works with hash or clos
2020-07-26T16:07:07Z phoe: (defvar *x* (list 0 1))
2020-07-26T16:07:10Z phoe: (defvar *y* *x*)
2020-07-26T16:07:23Z seok: then I want to change x
2020-07-26T16:07:29Z phoe: (setf (car *x*) 42 (cdr *x*) (list 24))
2020-07-26T16:07:30Z seok: (push 2 *x*)
2020-07-26T16:07:35Z seok: ah
2020-07-26T16:07:36Z phoe: oh, that's not doable
2020-07-26T16:07:43Z seok: yeah
2020-07-26T16:07:52Z phoe: PUSH creates a new cons cell that will no longer be EQ to any previous cons cell
2020-07-26T16:08:00Z seok: I can (defvar x (make-hash-table))
2020-07-26T16:08:03Z adyatlov joined #lisp
2020-07-26T16:08:07Z seok: then (defvar y x)
2020-07-26T16:08:09Z seok: then mutate it
2020-07-26T16:08:13Z phoe: yes, that'll work with hash tables
2020-07-26T16:08:16Z seok: but not with lists
2020-07-26T16:08:18Z seok: ok
2020-07-26T16:08:21Z phoe: no, it will also work with lists
2020-07-26T16:08:27Z seok: I can?
2020-07-26T16:08:34Z phoe: if you mutate the parts of the same cons cell, it'll work
2020-07-26T16:08:52Z seok: So it will work with plists?
2020-07-26T16:08:55Z phoe: but you rarely want to do that, because that prevents you from using PUSH or POP
2020-07-26T16:09:07Z seok: hm indeed
2020-07-26T16:09:16Z beach: phoe: This is one of the very frequent questions that I was planning a node for in the online teaching lecture series.
2020-07-26T16:09:25Z phoe: if you want to preserve identity, you can usually do some simple structure with one slot
2020-07-26T16:09:49Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-26T16:09:52Z seok: beach nice
2020-07-26T16:10:05Z phoe: like, (defclass header () ((list :accessor header-list :initarg :header-list :initform '())))
2020-07-26T16:10:19Z seok: yeah it is possible with clos or hashes
2020-07-26T16:10:28Z seok: I was wondering if I can do it with lists
2020-07-26T16:10:31Z phoe: then you can copy your headers around and mutate their HEADER-LISTs and have EQ equality
2020-07-26T16:10:40Z phoe: you can, if you use a cons as a header
2020-07-26T16:10:50Z phoe: then you mutate the CDR of that header
2020-07-26T16:11:02Z phoe: (defvar *x* (cons nil '(1 2 3 4 5)))
2020-07-26T16:11:12Z phoe: (defvar *y* *x*)
2020-07-26T16:11:28Z phoe: (push 0 (cdr *x*))
2020-07-26T16:11:39Z seok: Oh you are right
2020-07-26T16:11:40Z seok: it worked
2020-07-26T16:11:59Z seok: cheesy hack
2020-07-26T16:12:05Z seok: ty
2020-07-26T16:12:08Z phoe: not really cheesy
2020-07-26T16:12:16Z phoe: depends on what you mean by EQ
2020-07-26T16:12:21Z beach: seok: It is a standard programming technique.
2020-07-26T16:12:41Z beach: seok: Not only in Common Lisp.
2020-07-26T16:12:47Z phoe: lists are singly linked lists in CL and each cons has its individual identity, so pushing a new, fresh cons cell into some variable obviously makes it non-EQ to anything else in the system
2020-07-26T16:12:52Z phoe: and that's the expected behavior
2020-07-26T16:13:03Z seok: beach, my other languages are python and js/node, haven't encountered this
2020-07-26T16:13:37Z seok: actually, I've only seen cons in lisp
2020-07-26T16:13:38Z beach: I guess those languages don't have singly-linked lists.
2020-07-26T16:13:42Z seok: yeah
2020-07-26T16:13:46Z phoe: beach: or they have them as classes
2020-07-26T16:14:11Z tychoish: lists in python are closer to CL's vectors
2020-07-26T16:14:25Z beach: phoe: Classes or not, they would have the same problems unless the implementation provides some header object to turn it into an abstract data type.
2020-07-26T16:14:32Z seok: but CL vectors have fixed size tychoish?
2020-07-26T16:14:47Z tychoish: seok you can make vectors adjustable
2020-07-26T16:14:48Z beach: seok: What makes you think that?
2020-07-26T16:14:52Z phoe: beach: I think both python and JS access them by headers, so there's a layer of indirection
2020-07-26T16:15:03Z phoe: seok: depends, VECTOR-PUSH-EXTEND and ADJUST-ARRAY exist in CL
2020-07-26T16:15:05Z beach: phoe: Yeah, that explains it.
2020-07-26T16:15:41Z beach: Still it is totally amazing that seok has not encountered ordinary singly-linked lists in the past.  I guess those languages hide the concrete data types from the programmer.
2020-07-26T16:15:43Z tychoish: (make-vector <n> :adjustable t :fill-pointer 0)
2020-07-26T16:15:44Z seok: phoe doesn't that copy the vector and re create it?
2020-07-26T16:15:59Z seok: That's how I understood it
2020-07-26T16:16:03Z phoe: seok: it usually does
2020-07-26T16:16:16Z vornth quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T16:16:25Z beach: seok: There is usually some extra space so that it doesn't reallocate every time.
2020-07-26T16:16:41Z phoe: except vector-push-extend always preserves identity
2020-07-26T16:16:44Z seok: beach yeah, python especially. I see it as a language for non-programmers
2020-07-26T16:16:52Z beach: seok: And if you specify a fact to extend with, amortized complexity is still O(1).
2020-07-26T16:16:59Z tychoish: you can pass a size/type hints to make-array, but most langauges do some predictive allocation
2020-07-26T16:17:13Z seok: I'm don't have a CS background, just self taught so there are gaps in my knowledge too
2020-07-26T16:17:14Z beach: s/fact/factor/
2020-07-26T16:17:40Z beach: seok: You should definitely study some of that, or you will never be a very productive programmer.
2020-07-26T16:17:47Z seok: so python lists are vectors rather than lists?
2020-07-26T16:18:05Z beach: I suspect they are balanced trees.
2020-07-26T16:18:27Z seok: beach problem is, I don't get guided on what I don't know. I just ask here when I come across something
2020-07-26T16:18:28Z seok: x
2020-07-26T16:18:30Z seok: xD
2020-07-26T16:19:07Z bjorkintosh: seok, just get a book or something. cross out the familiar ones and learn the unfamiliar ones.
2020-07-26T16:19:08Z bjorkintosh: no?
2020-07-26T16:19:20Z seok: bjorkintosh, yeah I do read books
2020-07-26T16:19:30Z bjorkintosh: on gap closing?
2020-07-26T16:19:41Z bjorkintosh: or other books? there are 100 million to choose from.
2020-07-26T16:19:48Z bjorkintosh: (if not more)
2020-07-26T16:20:08Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-26T16:20:20Z TwoNotes: Chapter 2 of Volume 1 of "The art of computer programming" covers it.
2020-07-26T16:20:41Z seok: TwoNotes gee thx, appreciate book recommendations
2020-07-26T16:20:45Z TwoNotes: That is THE classic work underlying all programming
2020-07-26T16:20:59Z TwoNotes: Amazon has it
2020-07-26T16:21:04Z seok: yeah I found it
2020-07-26T16:21:09Z bjorkintosh: it's a trick. don't fall for it. it's technically true.
2020-07-26T16:21:10Z bjorkintosh: but...
2020-07-26T16:21:25Z seok: bjorkintosh a trick?
2020-07-26T16:21:46Z bjorkintosh: yes. it's a trick to turn you into a badass!
2020-07-26T16:21:51Z seok: xD
2020-07-26T16:22:03Z seok: TwoNotes wow this book has 4 huge volumes
2020-07-26T16:22:12Z cage_ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T16:22:21Z bjorkintosh: (if you read and comprehend it)
2020-07-26T16:23:57Z TwoNotes: Volume 1 is the essential stuff.  Hardbound editions are collector's items
2020-07-26T16:24:05Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T16:24:27Z TwoNotes: Kindle edition for $10
2020-07-26T16:24:29Z seok: Trying to find an index of the chapters online
2020-07-26T16:24:34Z seok: oh there's a kindle version
2020-07-26T16:24:35Z seok: ok
2020-07-26T16:24:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T16:24:52Z TwoNotes: Look at the "Look inside" section of the AMazon page.  It has the ToC
2020-07-26T16:24:53Z bjorkintosh: seok, get it from your local library and peruse it first.
2020-07-26T16:25:06Z seok: hm its $74
2020-07-26T16:25:09Z seok: on kindle
2020-07-26T16:26:01Z TwoNotes: Shows as $9.99 to me
2020-07-26T16:26:09Z seok: Nice, libraries do indeed have them
2020-07-26T16:26:10Z ravndal joined #lisp
2020-07-26T16:26:10Z beach: seok: The way you are working now, you are wasting hundreds of USD per day, so that investment will pay off in a few days.
2020-07-26T16:26:50Z seok: beach indeed
2020-07-26T16:27:03Z seok: curious how long you guys spend working on one of these books?
2020-07-26T16:27:29Z TwoNotes: More info at the Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Computer_Programming
2020-07-26T16:27:29Z beach: I never read Knuth's books myself.  But plenty of others.
2020-07-26T16:27:48Z xristos: i'm shaking my head watching folks recommend TAOCP to a CS newbie
2020-07-26T16:27:58Z seok: xDD
2020-07-26T16:28:02Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-26T16:28:05Z xristos: so seok i suggest you find some sample chapters online before you waste your money
2020-07-26T16:28:18Z seok: I'm still reading on lisp
2020-07-26T16:28:52Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-26T16:29:03Z TwoNotes: Volume 1, Chpter 2, is "Data Structures".  It covers all sorts of lists
2020-07-26T16:29:08Z bjorkintosh: seok> curious how long you guys spend working on one of these books? hahah. that's the joke. The author hasn't yet finished writing the goddamned books!
2020-07-26T16:29:18Z TwoNotes: Knuth is 82 now.
2020-07-26T16:29:29Z seok: bjorkintosh well thats the fourth book
2020-07-26T16:29:50Z bjorkintosh: he first planned the book in 1962.
2020-07-26T16:29:54Z bjorkintosh: it's now the year 2020
2020-07-26T16:30:33Z bjorkintosh: I'd find something easier if I were you, unless you're really good at the math part of it.
2020-07-26T16:30:42Z bjorkintosh: or can skip it guiltlessly.
2020-07-26T16:31:04Z TwoNotes: If you have ever used the TeX typesetting package, Knuth is responsible for that as well.
2020-07-26T16:31:08Z beach: Yeah, I would go for something simpler too, with a more recent algorithmic language.
2020-07-26T16:35:16Z lieven: MMIX isn't modern enough for you? :)
2020-07-26T16:35:25Z bjorkintosh: hahaha
2020-07-26T16:36:22Z TwoNotes: Common LISP: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation
2020-07-26T16:38:10Z mokulus quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-26T16:41:08Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T16:44:10Z TwoNotes: Really basic list structure explanation at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_(programming_language)#Conses_and_lists
2020-07-26T16:44:39Z shka_: i find the explanation in the practical common lisp to be the most enlightening
2020-07-26T16:44:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T16:44:49Z shka_: there is no list, there are cons cells
2020-07-26T16:45:01Z shka_: good evening btw
2020-07-26T16:45:27Z beach: Hello shka_.
2020-07-26T16:45:39Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T16:45:49Z shka_: beach: nice to see you here
2020-07-26T16:46:07Z beach: Thanks.  But I'm about to leave to fix dinner for my (admittedly small) family. :)
2020-07-26T16:46:15Z TwoNotes: Back in the dark ages, computers had 'words' that could hold two addresses at once.  The structure of Lisp CONS cells grew natrally out of that.
2020-07-26T16:46:16Z shka_: that's good
2020-07-26T16:46:52Z shka_: TwoNotes: oh, how fascinating!
2020-07-26T16:47:01Z shka_: i didn't knew that this was the case
2020-07-26T16:47:09Z shka_: but it makes sense
2020-07-26T16:47:26Z shka_: car and cdr are supposed to be instruction in some old assembly language
2020-07-26T16:48:07Z aap: nope
2020-07-26T16:48:33Z aap: but the IBM 704 did have address and decrement fields in an instruction
2020-07-26T16:48:41Z aap: (not in all though)
2020-07-26T16:49:47Z aap: (3 bits prefix, 15 bits decrement, 3 bits tag, 3 bits address)
2020-07-26T16:50:01Z aap: 15 bits address*
2020-07-26T16:53:12Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T16:56:36Z ineiros joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:06:18Z TwoNotes: The idea of two addresses in a word was carried forward into the IBM 7094 (same as a 704 but with transistors) and the DEC PDP-6 and PDP-10.  The PDP-10 in particular was quite popular in the early Lisp days
2020-07-26T17:08:11Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:14:11Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:17:32Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:17:38Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:18:43Z Ven`` quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-26T17:21:39Z phoe: stylewarning: who's going to author the CLOS book by Apress?
2020-07-26T17:21:52Z phoe: re https://twitter.com/stylewarning/status/1284532078877356033
2020-07-26T17:22:03Z phoe: Oh - I've read the comments, yes
2020-07-26T17:22:37Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:23:18Z phoe: huh, now I want a modern CLOS book :(
2020-07-26T17:24:49Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T17:26:46Z shka_: yes
2020-07-26T17:27:03Z shka_: the old book is not even that bad, but not ideal either
2020-07-26T17:28:23Z shka_: and CLOS harbors a lot of interesting possibilities
2020-07-26T17:28:27Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:28:43Z phoe: first pet peeve: it's not available as an ebook
2020-07-26T17:28:55Z phoe: second pet peeve: it's *not* available as an ebook
2020-07-26T17:31:09Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-26T17:31:55Z TwoNotes: I just with the CLHS was available as an ebook
2020-07-26T17:32:08Z TwoNotes: I'd take a PDF too
2020-07-26T17:32:47Z lonjil: ｕｌｔｒａｓｐｅｃ
2020-07-26T17:33:42Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T17:34:25Z phoe: nooooooooo
2020-07-26T17:36:13Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-26T17:36:26Z Ven`` joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:40:59Z elflng quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T17:44:14Z markoong joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:44:22Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T17:44:59Z markong quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T17:48:04Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:49:40Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:50:54Z ralt: MichaelRaskin: I'm hoping that fuse will be able to serve me well for gigantic repos as well :)
2020-07-26T17:52:39Z MichaelRaskin: FUSE does have quite a bit of overhead: conside a process switch per FS operation
2020-07-26T17:52:51Z MichaelRaskin: This is expensive, actually
2020-07-26T17:54:39Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:56:35Z minerjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-26T17:59:39Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:00:49Z retropikzel quit (Quit: retropikzel)
2020-07-26T18:06:32Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:08:56Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:09:30Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:10:07Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-26T18:11:18Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T18:13:25Z minerjoe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T18:14:24Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T18:15:03Z mokulus joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:15:30Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:15:30Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-26T18:15:30Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:16:13Z Jeanne-Kamikaze joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:21:52Z natter joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:24:30Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T18:24:58Z ralt: MichaelRaskin: I'm aware, but I'm pretty sure it's not that expensive. We'll see, maybe I'll be terribly wrong.
2020-07-26T18:25:02Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T18:25:30Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:27:21Z MichaelRaskin: Well, to be fair, even hitting the FUSE limitations in a multi-threaded setup would require a different architecture of the bindings
2020-07-26T18:30:22Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-26T18:30:56Z MichaelRaskin: And definitely less funcall-the-global-variable
2020-07-26T18:31:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:31:06Z MichaelRaskin: ralt:
2020-07-26T18:33:11Z TwoNotes: What is with the price of college-text-type books?  The KINDLE version of Steele's Common Lisp book, published 30 years ago, costs $58!
2020-07-26T18:33:28Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-26T18:35:30Z jackdaniel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T18:35:42Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:38:39Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:40:24Z stylewarning: phoe: sorry for the false excitement
2020-07-26T18:48:34Z gaqwas[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:53:37Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T18:54:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T18:55:16Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:57:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T18:58:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T18:58:14Z cage_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-26T19:02:14Z farooqkz__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T19:05:35Z ralt: MichaelRaskin: that's a fair point, but I'm not sure that's even necessary to begin with, the use case is reading/writing code there, it's not as filesystem-intensive as, say, serving a website or a game.
2020-07-26T19:05:52Z MichaelRaskin: Bwahaha
2020-07-26T19:06:40Z ralt: The couple of read()s I did on big-ish files were definitely in the same order of magnitude, and readdir() was actually faster than on tmpfs for some reason
2020-07-26T19:06:40Z MichaelRaskin: Just listing ~ 40k files is not cheap, not even on HDD — and even worse via FUSE
2020-07-26T19:06:59Z MichaelRaskin: Depends on the number of nested levels
2020-07-26T19:08:19Z coltkirk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T19:08:35Z minerjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:08:51Z coltkirk joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:08:58Z ralt: Obviously there will be some ill cases, but I don't care too much if it's good enough or better for 95%
2020-07-26T19:09:08Z coltkirk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T19:09:27Z coltkirk joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:10:16Z ralt: This is solving a real problem there, at work our gitlab has 1500 gitlab repos, it's can become tedious to know whether you have it cloned or need to visit the web etc
2020-07-26T19:10:51Z ralt: s/it's/it/
2020-07-26T19:10:55Z MichaelRaskin: Ouch, 1500
2020-07-26T19:11:02Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:11:21Z MichaelRaskin: Then yeah, I guess each specific one should be smaller than the megamonorepos I think about
2020-07-26T19:12:04Z ralt: Yeah, this is specifically not about supporting monorepos
2020-07-26T19:12:10Z chosenone joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:12:14Z ralt: Which git is ill-suited for, I'd argue
2020-07-26T19:12:32Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:12:33Z MichaelRaskin: Erm, the original use case of git is a megarepo
2020-07-26T19:12:56Z ralt: monorepo != megarepo
2020-07-26T19:13:04Z MichaelRaskin: And the Nixpkgs monorepo is _not_ pulling in vendor stuff even, it is just a ton of packaging stuff
2020-07-26T19:13:24Z MichaelRaskin: Well, I guess you divide monorepos by provenance
2020-07-26T19:13:33Z MichaelRaskin: In that case, I am thinking «just» of megarepos
2020-07-26T19:13:56Z ralt: For me at least, monorepo = tons of components and libraries all in the same repo
2020-07-26T19:13:58Z MichaelRaskin: But with 1500 repos I would rate the risk of megarepos arising as acceptably low, too
2020-07-26T19:14:19Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T19:14:40Z ralt: We have a couple of them, I'll be able to test how/if it works :)
2020-07-26T19:15:27Z ralt: (our "nexus" is a git-annex repo, so every single release of every single component and library ends up in there)
2020-07-26T19:16:13Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:17:33Z p_l: it would be nice to have linux fuse implementation of MS git extensions for "omg huge" repos
2020-07-26T19:17:40Z p_l: especially if said implementation was in CL :D
2020-07-26T19:17:45Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:18:48Z jw4 quit (Quit: tot siens)
2020-07-26T19:19:16Z MichaelRaskin: As it seems to be most critical for Git repos even larger than Linux/LibreOffice/etc., I am not sure I have any compassion to people ending up with such repos…
2020-07-26T19:20:41Z ralt: It's monorepos.
2020-07-26T19:21:33Z ralt: And this extension requires server side help as well, given that git itself (protocol and internals) is very much "whole repo"-based
2020-07-26T19:22:24Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-26T19:24:07Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T19:24:29Z MichaelRaskin: I believe there is some narrow-checkout work in Git, and catching up with Subversion as of 15 years ago is obviously a more useful feature than some horror requiring patches to both the server and the client's FS
2020-07-26T19:27:31Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T19:28:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:31:40Z p_l: MichaelRaskin: it's not really a horrible extension, and a lot of it is due to requiring ability to do normal checkout on a repo that has *significant* amount of history
2020-07-26T19:34:31Z ralt: I believe that's already supported by shallow clones?
2020-07-26T19:36:41Z p_l: ralt: shallow clones break apart when you need something more than checkout
2020-07-26T19:37:01Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T19:37:23Z p_l: generally, the whole thing MS did was to avoid all the "hacky" versions and allow everyone to have /apparent/ full checkout of gigantic repo with history stretching 30 years of very active development
2020-07-26T19:38:18Z p_l: and the approach is IMO quite compatible with Git in many ways but I wish it got ported over, it's not like MS is hiding details about it
2020-07-26T19:38:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:45:49Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:46:42Z puchacz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T19:47:04Z ralt: sparse-checkout is the new thing https://git-scm.com/docs/git-sparse-checkout
2020-07-26T19:47:21Z remexre quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-26T19:51:00Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:56:41Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T19:58:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T19:59:28Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-26T20:01:44Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T20:02:05Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T20:02:15Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T20:14:31Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T20:15:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T20:21:05Z philweb joined #lisp
2020-07-26T20:23:01Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T20:24:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T20:33:54Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-26T20:36:11Z karlosz quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-26T20:41:49Z cairn quit (Quit: authenticating)
2020-07-26T20:41:57Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-26T20:53:42Z Alfr__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T20:58:53Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-26T20:59:30Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-26T20:59:32Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T21:00:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T21:02:33Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-26T21:03:13Z markoong quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-26T21:14:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T21:14:12Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T21:14:38Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-26T21:20:19Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-26T21:21:49Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-26T21:23:34Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T21:26:55Z phoe: c.l.l got seemingly banned from Google Groups
2020-07-26T21:37:34Z TwoNotes: Can CFFI express a foreign vector of strings?  I think SBCL can do it, but I would prefer staying with CFFI.  This is like what you get from the 'argv' parameter to a main C program.
2020-07-26T21:39:05Z Ven`` quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-26T21:39:46Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-26T21:39:52Z phoe: TwoNotes: that's just an array of char pointers
2020-07-26T21:40:02Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T21:40:10Z TwoNotes: Yes, in C.  But what in LISP?
2020-07-26T21:40:18Z phoe: what do you mean, what in Lisp?
2020-07-26T21:40:33Z phoe: that would be a vector of strings if we converted that from C to Lisp
2020-07-26T21:40:38Z phoe: or a list of strings
2020-07-26T21:40:58Z TwoNotes: Yes, I have a list of strings  I need to pass that to a C function as an array of char*
2020-07-26T21:41:56Z phoe: the manual way would be to translate all strings to C, allocate an array of wanted length, set all slots of that array to point to your strings, pass the array address to the function
2020-07-26T21:42:01Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T21:42:24Z phoe: sounds like a nice idea for a helper macro, WITH-C-STRINGS-ARRAY or something
2020-07-26T21:42:25Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T21:42:34Z _death: you can define a foreign type to do that
2020-07-26T21:42:41Z TwoNotes: Hmm.  I could write that if there is not already one
2020-07-26T21:42:42Z phoe: _death: TIL
2020-07-26T21:42:53Z phoe: can this be automated by CFFI itself?
2020-07-26T21:43:07Z TwoNotes: That is what I was hoping.  I have not found it yet.
2020-07-26T21:43:24Z Blukunfando quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-26T21:43:27Z TwoNotes: SBCL's 'alien type' interface does include vectors of things
2020-07-26T21:44:08Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T21:44:16Z TwoNotes: But the CFFI spec does not really mention vectors as a built-in foreign type
2020-07-26T21:44:30Z voidlily_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T21:44:38Z TwoNotes: mem-ref seems to support arrays
2020-07-26T21:44:40Z _death: phoe: no, you need to do what you said.. but you can have a strings-list foreign type to do the translations
2020-07-26T21:45:19Z _death: TwoNotes: there's mem-aref
2020-07-26T21:45:24Z TwoNotes: yes
2020-07-26T21:45:55Z TwoNotes: I think I can see how to do it then.  Use mem-aref to fill in the slots in the array
2020-07-26T21:47:11Z TwoNotes: I like a powerful macro facility like LISP has  I was once responsible for maintaining the MACRO facility in the DEC Bliss compilers
2020-07-26T21:47:54Z voidlily joined #lisp
2020-07-26T21:48:32Z _death: here's an example https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1968#1968 though it doesn't deal with strings
2020-07-26T21:49:31Z orivej_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T21:49:38Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T21:51:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T21:54:33Z TwoNotes: excellent
2020-07-26T21:57:17Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-26T22:00:45Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T22:02:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T22:02:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:03:47Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:07:50Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:08:50Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:09:13Z cyraxjoe quit (Quit: I'm out!)
2020-07-26T22:11:12Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-26T22:11:47Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:11:48Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:14:52Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:14:52Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-26T22:14:52Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:17:05Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:18:25Z devon joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:18:33Z FennecCode quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-26T22:21:19Z xkapastel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-26T22:27:27Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T22:31:09Z Josh_2: Hi
2020-07-26T22:31:22Z Josh_2: Is there a graphql server in CL?
2020-07-26T22:35:42Z Josh_2: I saw that Shinmera started work on something graphql related, not sure if it was a server or not
2020-07-26T22:36:48Z Josh_2: maybe I can write one
2020-07-26T22:43:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T22:43:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:47:43Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-26T22:52:32Z Jeanne-Kamikaze quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T22:53:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T22:53:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:00:11Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T23:01:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:03:55Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:04:23Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:09:52Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:11:47Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:11:56Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:12:13Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:18:26Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:19:05Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:24:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:25:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:28:38Z MichaelRaskin quit (Quit: MichaelRaskin)
2020-07-26T23:29:07Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:29:58Z satousan quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-26T23:30:05Z housel quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:31:08Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:32:46Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:32:55Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:33:30Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:34:21Z housel joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:34:48Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:35:55Z cosimone_ is now known as cosimone
2020-07-26T23:36:56Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-26T23:38:34Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-26T23:38:46Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:42:00Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-26T23:43:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:50:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-26T23:51:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:52:06Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-26T23:52:38Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:01:02Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:02:59Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T00:03:42Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:03:42Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:03:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T00:13:10Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T00:13:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:21:50Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T00:22:43Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:23:54Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:38:34Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T00:39:43Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:47:19Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-27T00:48:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:48:50Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:49:30Z jgodbou joined #lisp
2020-07-27T00:55:31Z ralt quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-27T00:57:02Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T01:03:44Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-27T01:06:51Z Kaisyu72 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-27T01:07:30Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-27T01:14:02Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T01:14:30Z minerjoe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T01:14:57Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T01:15:03Z Domino joined #lisp
2020-07-27T01:15:46Z MadestMadness joined #lisp
2020-07-27T01:22:54Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T01:26:38Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T01:38:18Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T01:42:35Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T01:43:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T01:44:33Z seok: Is :test #'equal or #'string= available for case clause?
2020-07-27T01:44:38Z seok: I don't see it in the manual
2020-07-27T01:45:18Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T01:45:56Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-27T01:46:21Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-27T01:47:47Z seok: Hm, can't get it to work
2020-07-27T01:48:13Z seok: I guess there's cond
2020-07-27T01:48:43Z borei joined #lisp
2020-07-27T01:48:43Z tychoish: yeah, I think it uses eq
2020-07-27T01:48:53Z borei: hi all !
2020-07-27T01:49:30Z borei: i have question about recursive function inlining (SBCL)
2020-07-27T01:49:55Z borei: im getting warning  - "note: *INLINE-EXPANSION-LIMIT* (50) was exceeded while inlining"
2020-07-27T01:50:41Z borei: increasing that variable didn't help of cause.
2020-07-27T01:51:28Z borei: and how does compiler knows that there were 50 expansions ?
2020-07-27T01:51:29Z tychoish: seok: it uses eql
2020-07-27T01:51:36Z seok: yeah
2020-07-27T01:51:57Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-27T01:52:03Z borei: compiler doesn't has information about recursion  depth.
2020-07-27T01:52:57Z tychoish: it probably tracks them during macro expansion
2020-07-27T01:53:21Z tychoish: seok: it looks like there's a switch macro in alexadria
2020-07-27T01:53:29Z tychoish: that lets you do the thing you want
2020-07-27T01:57:01Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-27T01:58:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T02:00:48Z Domino quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-27T02:04:07Z MadestMadness quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T02:05:00Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-27T02:06:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T02:07:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T02:10:02Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T02:16:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T02:16:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T02:20:51Z minerjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-27T02:21:50Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-27T02:24:09Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T02:29:25Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-27T02:30:06Z aindilis quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T02:31:06Z bjorkintosh quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-27T02:31:10Z PuercoPop: seok: check (ql:quickload "string-case")
2020-07-27T02:32:09Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T02:32:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T02:32:42Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T02:32:57Z bsd4me quit (Quit: gotta go)
2020-07-27T02:35:05Z minerjoe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T02:42:04Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T02:45:24Z cjb` joined #lisp
2020-07-27T02:45:35Z cjb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-27T02:46:11Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-27T02:49:25Z PuercoPop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T03:05:20Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-27T03:08:13Z cjb` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-27T03:09:32Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T03:09:51Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-27T03:11:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T03:14:13Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-27T03:17:30Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-27T03:19:25Z jgodbou: morn
2020-07-27T03:20:11Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-27T03:21:35Z beach: jgodbou: Are you new here?  I don't recognize your nick.
2020-07-27T03:31:14Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T03:31:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T03:32:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T03:33:57Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-27T03:34:35Z jgodbou: Not at all
2020-07-27T03:35:14Z beach: Oh, OK.  Sorry.
2020-07-27T03:35:25Z jgodbou: I once asked you what time it really was where you were and you commented on timelessness of the chatroom
2020-07-27T03:35:36Z jgodbou: But I do not talk much so it's okay
2020-07-27T03:36:03Z beach: I see.  Maybe you changed your nick, or maybe it was some time ago.  Sorry either way.
2020-07-27T03:41:05Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-27T03:42:19Z retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-27T03:43:47Z jgodbou: Always so lively here :)
2020-07-27T03:44:23Z loke: beach: do you recall some old Lisp implementation havign some kind of optimised storage of lists that used arrays behind the scenes?
2020-07-27T03:44:42Z beach: Yes, Lisp Machine Lisp.
2020-07-27T03:44:46Z loke: I sem to recall it being a failed experiment, but I can't remember the retails nor the name of the system.
2020-07-27T03:44:48Z beach: it is called CDR coding.
2020-07-27T03:44:55Z loke: Ah yes, CDR coding.
2020-07-27T03:45:14Z beach: They could get away with it because it had hardware support.
2020-07-27T03:46:29Z philweb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T03:47:02Z philweb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T03:50:00Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-27T03:59:08Z loke: beach: This is the discussion I'm stuck in. I found myself in a rabbithole, and in posting this, I'm not expecting you to contribute nor even actually read it. :-)
2020-07-27T03:59:09Z loke: https://functional.cafe/@loke/104583110351637324
2020-07-27T03:59:23Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T04:01:31Z minerjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:04:35Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:06:50Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-27T04:09:05Z beach: Reading now.
2020-07-27T04:09:21Z beach: You should link to closos.pdf in the future.  It is more recent.
2020-07-27T04:11:07Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:12:24Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:12:42Z beach: loke: Good luck! :)
2020-07-27T04:17:06Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:18:49Z retropikzel quit (Quit: retropikzel)
2020-07-27T04:19:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T04:19:51Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T04:20:46Z loke:  beach: In the fost recent replies from Nate Cull, he explains his view on computation and data, and how he feels that abstract concept such as "objects" have failed.
2020-07-27T04:21:51Z loke: I tend to both agree and disagree with what he's saying. I really need to think about this some more, because I'm not sure I have a consistent opinion on this yet.
2020-07-27T04:24:29Z loke: I feel that Lisp Sexps as defined by Common Lisp is a really nice middle-ground between "raw arrays of bytes or other arrays" and some Java-like object-concepts.
2020-07-27T04:36:16Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-27T04:38:49Z adyatlov quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-27T04:40:44Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-27T04:42:59Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:44:51Z MadestMadness joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:47:05Z minerjoe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T04:49:35Z MadestMadness quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-27T04:50:09Z beach: loke: Yes, I see what you mean.
2020-07-27T04:50:24Z beach: It is good that you keep the discussion polite.
2020-07-27T04:51:17Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:53:02Z loke: beach: As I grow older, I have taken a different approach to online debates: Before assuming that the person with whom I'm talking is wrong, think about how what I am saying could be seen as wrong.
2020-07-27T04:53:20Z loke: If the other person is still wrong, I prefer not participating at all.
2020-07-27T04:53:29Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:54:06Z beach: That's very wise.  In the long run, that attitude will pay off.
2020-07-27T04:56:20Z icov0x29a joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:56:53Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T04:57:20Z ldb: good afternoon
2020-07-27T05:00:03Z beach: Hello ldb.
2020-07-27T05:00:54Z ldb: loke: to add up something could be relevant, in the programming language Russell types are viewed as a collection of interperations to the bits in memory
2020-07-27T05:01:35Z ldb: which leads to very fine grained control of memory representation, while remain the advantages of polymorphism
2020-07-27T05:02:17Z ldb: hello beach.
2020-07-27T05:04:05Z Fare: good night, guys
2020-07-27T05:04:36Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T05:08:08Z borei: hi all !
2020-07-27T05:08:53Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T05:09:23Z borei: "note: *INLINE-EXPANSION-LIMIT* (50) was exceeded while inlining" - getting it trying to inline recursive function. How does compiler count number of expansions not knowing recursion depth ?
2020-07-27T05:09:25Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-27T05:09:39Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-27T05:09:54Z MadestMadness joined #lisp
2020-07-27T05:11:35Z borei: and one more question - note: doing float to pointer coercion (cost 13) to "<return value>" . Why ?
2020-07-27T05:11:49Z ldb: borei: keeping a counter is enough to know the num of expansions
2020-07-27T05:13:02Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T05:13:06Z borei: not clear
2020-07-27T05:13:43Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T05:16:22Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-27T05:18:24Z ldb: borei: first of all, recursive function cannot be inlined indefinitly in SBCL
2020-07-27T05:22:10Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T05:24:24Z borei: is the an option to tell that recursion is not indefinite. My maximum depth will 8.
2020-07-27T05:27:20Z devon quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T05:29:03Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-27T05:31:09Z ldb: borei: should setting *INLINE-EXPANSION-LIMIT* work
2020-07-27T05:32:35Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T05:36:27Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T05:38:00Z borei: i was trying to go up to 200 - no luck.
2020-07-27T05:41:06Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Quit: later)
2020-07-27T05:42:22Z beach: borei: In general, the compiler can not determine that the recursion depth is bounded.
2020-07-27T05:42:56Z beach: borei: If there is a recursive call somewhere, then that call will be inlined.
2020-07-27T05:42:59Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-27T05:43:20Z beach: The only thing to stop the inlining is to set a limit to the number of times the compiler is allowed to inline.
2020-07-27T05:43:30Z beach: That is what *INLINE-EXPANSION-LIMIT* does.
2020-07-27T05:47:03Z cosimone_ quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-27T05:48:41Z fe[nl]ix: I see that optima was has been deprecated and the Github project was archived
2020-07-27T05:48:46Z fe[nl]ix: what's the alternative ?
2020-07-27T05:57:03Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T05:58:48Z borei quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-27T05:59:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-27T05:59:16Z loke: fenlix: there is another one that is compatible
2020-07-27T05:59:22Z loke: I can't remember its name.
2020-07-27T06:01:04Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-27T06:02:52Z Archenoth joined #lisp
2020-07-27T06:05:43Z fe[nl]ix: loke: trivia ?
2020-07-27T06:06:41Z fe[nl]ix: I sent pull requests to replace Eos with Fiveam for all deps in Quicklisp, except for Optima
2020-07-27T06:06:56Z fe[nl]ix: and since Optima is deprecated as well, it should be replaced
2020-07-27T06:07:37Z fe[nl]ix: but it has 33 depending systems in Quicklisp
2020-07-27T06:08:34Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-27T06:09:34Z loke: fenlix: Ah yes. Trivia.
2020-07-27T06:09:56Z loke: What is depending on optima? also, why is it deprecated?)
2020-07-27T06:10:21Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-27T06:10:28Z fe[nl]ix: its author abandoned it
2020-07-27T06:10:36Z fe[nl]ix: loke: see (ql:who-depends-on "optima")
2020-07-27T06:10:42Z loke: Who was the author?
2020-07-27T06:10:57Z fe[nl]ix: https://github.com/m2ym/optima
2020-07-27T06:15:13Z loke: Everything is archived, and his website is blank.
2020-07-27T06:20:15Z montxero joined #lisp
2020-07-27T06:22:27Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-27T06:36:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T06:36:31Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-27T06:36:36Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-27T06:36:36Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-27T06:38:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-27T06:38:33Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-27T06:44:24Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T06:44:47Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T06:49:25Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T06:50:23Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-27T06:52:45Z farooqkz__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T07:02:37Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-27T07:05:14Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-27T07:05:17Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T07:09:02Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T07:09:30Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T07:11:24Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-27T07:13:40Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T07:14:00Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-27T07:22:59Z seok quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-27T07:36:28Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T07:43:05Z cjb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-27T07:47:15Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T07:48:41Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-27T07:49:05Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T07:56:10Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T07:56:22Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T08:01:05Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T08:07:25Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-27T08:07:28Z ralt joined #lisp
2020-07-27T08:17:40Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T08:19:07Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-27T08:24:16Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T08:28:23Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-27T08:29:56Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T08:34:52Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T08:44:32Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T08:44:52Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-27T08:47:05Z aurelius quit
2020-07-27T08:48:07Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-27T08:49:50Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T08:54:44Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T08:56:19Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:05:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T09:10:16Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:14:59Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T09:15:07Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T09:18:52Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:19:03Z q3d joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:19:55Z iissaacc: anyone know if common lisp has an equivalent of dir() in python to see the available methods etc of an object from the REPL? google not helping
2020-07-27T09:21:06Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:21:25Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T09:21:39Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-27T09:22:45Z beach: iissaacc: What do you mean by "available methods of an object"?
2020-07-27T09:22:50Z montxero quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T09:23:34Z iissaacc: e.g:
2020-07-27T09:23:45Z iissaacc: >>> dir(3)
2020-07-27T09:23:45Z iissaacc: ['__abs__', '__add__', '__and__', '__bool__', '__ceil__', '__class__', '__delattr__', '__dir__', '__divmod__', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__float__', '__floor__', '__floordiv__', '__format__', '__ge__', '__getattribute__', '__getnewargs__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__index__', '__init__', '__init_subclass__', '__int__', '__invert__', '__le__', '__lshift__', '__lt__', '__mod__', '__mul__', '__ne__', '__neg__', '__new__', '__or__', '__pos__',
2020-07-27T09:23:45Z iissaacc: '__pow__', '__radd__', '__rand__', '__rdivmod__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__rfloordiv__', '__rlshift__', '__rmod__', '__rmul__', '__ror__', '__round__', '__rpow__', '__rrshift__', '__rshift__', '__rsub__', '__rtruediv__', '__rxor__', '__setattr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__sub__', '__subclasshook__', '__truediv__', '__trunc__', '__xor__', 'as_integer_ratio', 'bit_length', 'conjugate', 'denominator', 'from_bytes',
2020-07-27T09:23:45Z iissaacc: 'imag', 'numerator', 'real', 'to_bytes']
2020-07-27T09:23:48Z iissaacc: >>>
2020-07-27T09:24:08Z beach: Don't do that again, please.
2020-07-27T09:24:33Z beach: Use a pastebin service for anything beyond a line.
2020-07-27T09:24:51Z beach: I also don't know what I am looking at.  Could you describe what you want?
2020-07-27T09:25:06Z jackdaniel: he assumes, that methods "belong" to objects
2020-07-27T09:25:17Z beach: Do you consider CONS to be an "available method" for every object?
2020-07-27T09:25:22Z jackdaniel: probably equivalent would be "all generic functions which have an applicable method
2020-07-27T09:25:28Z iissaacc: ^^
2020-07-27T09:25:29Z flip214: anyone for PURI and IPv6? https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/clpm/puri/-/issues/1, and there's a merge request
2020-07-27T09:25:51Z jackdaniel: iissaacc: no, methods in Common Lisp "belong" to generic functions, not objects
2020-07-27T09:26:37Z iissaacc: right
2020-07-27T09:27:56Z beach: Also, it is impossible to determine whether an ordinary function is "available".
2020-07-27T09:28:04Z beach: ... for a particular object.
2020-07-27T09:28:23Z beach: I mean, there is no particular reason to restrict yourself to generic functions.
2020-07-27T09:29:03Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T09:29:07Z beach: Every predicate in the system that is a total function is always "available" to any object.
2020-07-27T09:29:38Z beach: So every such predicate in every system or library loaded into the system is "available".
2020-07-27T09:29:44Z iissaacc: ok yeah i see my misunderstanding. been using generic functions but didnt make the connection
2020-07-27T09:30:25Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:30:27Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:30:35Z flip214: phoe: any update to https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues/1825?
2020-07-27T09:30:52Z vaporatorius__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-27T09:30:55Z jackdaniel: technically a generic function is an object too, you may even subclass it, but you know what I've meant
2020-07-27T09:31:12Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:31:15Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:31:15Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-27T09:31:15Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:31:49Z beach: iissaacc: So can you be more specific about what you want?
2020-07-27T09:32:21Z loke: There is a function in SWANK that can be used to find all methods that specialise on a given type.
2020-07-27T09:32:50Z jackdaniel: I think that he understands now that his question doesn't make sense in Common Lisp (unlike in Python or C++, where "methods" are part of the class)
2020-07-27T09:33:35Z beach: OK.
2020-07-27T09:33:39Z loke: (SWANK-BACKEND:WHO-SPECIALIZES (FIND-CLASS 'some-class))
2020-07-27T09:33:43Z iissaacc: beach i was just looking for a way of quickly seeing what methods i could use on an object from a library without looking at the source, but i see that it doesnt make sense in the lisp contexr now
2020-07-27T09:33:59Z beach: Got it.
2020-07-27T09:34:21Z loke: iissaacc: The best way to do that is simply to use SLIME and show all exported symbols in the library's package.
2020-07-27T09:34:24Z ralt: I typically do LIB-PACKAGE:<tab>
2020-07-27T09:34:30Z ralt: right, what loke said
2020-07-27T09:34:35Z loke: Exactly ;-)
2020-07-27T09:34:58Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T09:35:13Z iissaacc: thanks loke, this is cool
2020-07-27T09:35:25Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:37:34Z philweb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-27T09:37:40Z iissaacc: pretty much what i was after! even shows u where the definition is in the source file
2020-07-27T09:37:53Z phoe: flip214: nope
2020-07-27T09:47:16Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-27T09:49:32Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:50:36Z flip214: so moving over is still an idea, but the short-term solutions is to switch repository...
2020-07-27T09:51:09Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:51:38Z icov0x29a_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T09:54:10Z icov0x29a quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T09:55:23Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T10:03:13Z loke: iissaacc: Note that this just shows the functions that are specialised on the type. There can be more functions that works with the type (anything defined with DEFUN won't show up for example)
2020-07-27T10:08:38Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T10:10:05Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-27T10:12:36Z jackdaniel: I have an idea how to make the input context apply to all frames (so it is possible to select a presentation from a different frame if it matches the context)
2020-07-27T10:12:50Z jackdaniel: um, not here
2020-07-27T10:21:08Z jello_pudding quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T10:33:40Z jello_pudding joined #lisp
2020-07-27T10:41:18Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-27T10:52:19Z mangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T10:52:27Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-27T10:55:16Z minerjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:00:45Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T11:01:16Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:03:30Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:03:32Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T11:05:28Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T11:05:29Z jprajzne quit (Quit: jprajzne)
2020-07-27T11:06:19Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T11:06:27Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-27T11:08:10Z jprajzne joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:12:02Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:14:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:24:10Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:24:45Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T11:27:34Z q3d quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-27T11:28:18Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:37:20Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T11:37:27Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-27T11:37:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T11:38:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:43:00Z minerjoe left #lisp
2020-07-27T11:44:00Z minerjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:44:13Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:52:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T11:52:57Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:53:23Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:55:41Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-27T11:57:22Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T12:00:14Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:03:29Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:11:17Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:13:21Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T12:15:54Z ldb: guys, do you have suggested reading on how common lisp loads a fasl file that contains native code?
2020-07-27T12:16:24Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:17:02Z jackdaniel: it is implementation dependent. only the part specified with eval-when is guaranteed
2020-07-27T12:17:28Z jackdaniel: for instance ECL dlopen's the fasl file (which is in fact a shared library) and calls the initialization functions
2020-07-27T12:18:25Z jackdaniel: and by "part specified with eval-when" I mean, that if you put some block as (eval-when (:execute) …), then this block will be evaluated when the fasl is loaded
2020-07-27T12:21:56Z ldb: how can data objects with reference, such as symbols with a fdefinition, been restored?
2020-07-27T12:22:47Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:22:49Z phoe: first you grab the function object, then you setf the fdefinition of a symbol to that object
2020-07-27T12:26:00Z jackdaniel: exactly
2020-07-27T12:29:48Z ldb: ok so I see there's limitation on what kind of data been stored in fasl files
2020-07-27T12:30:37Z jackdaniel: there /may/ be a limitation - it is implementation dependent
2020-07-27T12:33:27Z ldb: actually I'm seeking guides on assembly code generation, but there's not much info on it besides calling LLVM
2020-07-27T12:35:05Z phoe: that's not a FASL thing, they store already generated code
2020-07-27T12:35:15Z phoe: you might be thinking of compiler design
2020-07-27T12:35:25Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:37:24Z aurelius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T12:37:59Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T12:38:22Z jackdaniel: afair beach plans for fasl in sicl to store a machine-independent compiled code which will be translated to a machine-dependent native code during load
2020-07-27T12:39:26Z phoe: a FASL file might even contain just S-expressions that have undergone minimal compilation and have proper load-time side effects
2020-07-27T12:39:32Z phoe: like, literally be a text file
2020-07-27T12:40:17Z ldb: yes, I seen beach presented some example of minial compiled ast stored as sexps
2020-07-27T12:43:02Z ldb: for load time code gen, I guess it is hard to design a general enough pseudo machine language to be portable
2020-07-27T12:44:01Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:44:08Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:44:12Z enrio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T12:44:38Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:48:26Z ldb quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-27T12:48:50Z vidak` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T12:49:01Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:49:11Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:50:49Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:53:48Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:54:26Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:55:25Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T12:56:18Z paul0 joined #lisp
2020-07-27T12:57:47Z paul0 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-27T13:00:29Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-27T13:00:37Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-27T13:00:42Z jgodbou quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T13:04:11Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T13:05:02Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T13:12:17Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-27T13:13:37Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T13:14:39Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T13:25:16Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T13:30:33Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T13:33:28Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T13:34:16Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T13:36:39Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-27T13:37:46Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T13:39:22Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T13:39:51Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-27T13:40:37Z pve: Hi, do you guys think this function will let me reach the end of a list without actually READing? Assuming the standard readtable..
2020-07-27T13:41:01Z pve: It seems to work, but I can't help but think that there's something I'm missing
2020-07-27T13:44:43Z beach: pve: "this function"?
2020-07-27T13:45:37Z pve: ah, hehe https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1969
2020-07-27T13:45:45Z pve: forgot the link
2020-07-27T13:46:55Z pve: it doesn't have to be valid CL, I just need to balance the parens
2020-07-27T13:48:25Z beach: What do you have against READ?
2020-07-27T13:52:07Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T13:52:34Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T13:53:32Z beach: But yeah, it looks plausible to me, given some constraints on the input.
2020-07-27T13:53:44Z pve: nothing, but the code may refer to packages that don't exist
2020-07-27T13:53:55Z beach: That's what Eclector is for.
2020-07-27T13:54:03Z pve: (I know about eclector, it's on the roadmap)
2020-07-27T13:54:05Z pve: ok
2020-07-27T13:54:18Z beach: You can tell Eclector to interpret tokens in whatever way you like.
2020-07-27T13:56:17Z jackdaniel: for arbitrary grammars there is also esrap
2020-07-27T13:56:56Z refpga quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-27T13:57:14Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T13:57:52Z pve: is Eclector under heavy development? Or more or less stable?
2020-07-27T13:58:23Z beach: More features are occasionally added, but what is there is stable.
2020-07-27T13:58:53Z beach: I am using it as the only reader for SICL.
2020-07-27T13:59:22Z beach: Clasp is using it as well.
2020-07-27T13:59:44Z beach: But they may be using a specific reader during bootstrapping.
2020-07-27T14:00:18Z beach: It is also well tested and well documented.
2020-07-27T14:01:04Z pve: ok, that's good
2020-07-27T14:03:49Z rwcom3417491 joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:07:21Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-27T14:07:42Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:07:46Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T14:08:30Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:17:44Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T14:17:53Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:18:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:21:10Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:21:53Z enrioog joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:23:25Z enrio quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T14:27:37Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T14:27:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-27T14:27:52Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:27:53Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:28:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-27T14:29:04Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:29:38Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-27T14:29:58Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T14:29:59Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:30:52Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-27T14:31:09Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:32:49Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:41:31Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:48:44Z Alfr joined #lisp
2020-07-27T14:50:05Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T14:53:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T14:53:56Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T15:09:21Z icov0x29a__ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T15:10:29Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-27T15:11:25Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-27T15:12:13Z icov0x29a_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-27T15:12:27Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-27T15:22:37Z Josh_2: Afternoon folks
2020-07-27T15:23:06Z beach: Hello Josh_2.
2020-07-27T15:23:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T15:23:39Z Yardanico is now known as yardanico[ok]
2020-07-27T15:24:06Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T15:24:11Z yardanico[ok] is now known as Yardanico
2020-07-27T15:25:17Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T15:25:51Z xkapastel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-27T15:28:58Z Josh_2: Hey beach, hows your projects coming along?
2020-07-27T15:29:38Z beach: Josh_2: Slow but steady progress, thank you.  Working on the condition system at the moment.  It is simple in theory, but the devil is in the detail as usual.
2020-07-27T15:29:45Z beach: How about yours?
2020-07-27T15:30:26Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-27T15:30:45Z Josh_2: Mine aren't going so great, been procrastinating really hard the last week. I was playing with McCLIM as a front end for an app I made, not made all that much progress.
2020-07-27T15:31:28Z beach: I see.
2020-07-27T15:40:12Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T15:46:38Z ebrasca: Hi
2020-07-27T15:47:15Z beach: Hello ebrasca.
2020-07-27T15:48:08Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T15:49:09Z Josh_2: Hi
2020-07-27T15:53:38Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T15:54:05Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-27T15:54:38Z jgodbou joined #lisp
2020-07-27T15:54:41Z jgodbou: Trying to set up a github action for testing with ccl. They have the address specified to get the latest version of CCL here: https://ccl.clozure.com/download.html https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/releases/download/v1.11.5/ccl-1.11.5-linuxx86.tar.gz but that's version specificIs there an address I can run curl on to get the latest so I don't have to
2020-07-27T15:54:42Z jgodbou: update my script when new releases are made?
2020-07-27T15:55:44Z mfiano: Use roswell
2020-07-27T15:55:58Z mfiano: See the github actions script for pngload
2020-07-27T15:56:38Z jgodbou: ty
2020-07-27T15:58:35Z phoe: someone needs to update ccl.clozure.com
2020-07-27T15:58:43Z phoe: 1.11.5 has not been the latest stable 1.11 for a long time
2020-07-27T16:04:53Z holycow joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:12:23Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:12:41Z lad quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T16:13:17Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:13:37Z lad quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T16:14:08Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:15:32Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:15:55Z aindilis joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:16:48Z retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:20:50Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:24:48Z lad quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-27T16:25:15Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:25:24Z lad quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T16:25:53Z lad joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:26:46Z bitmapper quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T16:28:57Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:30:13Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-27T16:30:17Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:33:47Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T16:34:10Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:40:39Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-27T16:45:14Z choegusung joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:47:32Z luckless_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:50:23Z luckless quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T16:54:59Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-27T16:56:42Z icov0x29a__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T16:57:05Z enrioog quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T16:57:28Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T16:57:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:05:09Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:05:16Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T17:10:31Z MadestMadness quit (Quit: IRCNow and Forever!)
2020-07-27T17:11:47Z FennecCode joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:15:01Z philweb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:16:01Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:18:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T17:18:53Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:19:46Z leo_song quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-27T17:19:49Z [ is now known as ^
2020-07-27T17:20:34Z leo_song joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:23:19Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:28:48Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:28:57Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T17:29:37Z asarch: One stupid question: how would split this veeeryyy long expression?
2020-07-27T17:29:50Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T17:29:52Z asarch: (gtk-tree-view-append-column (widget (tree-view *agenda*)) (gtk-tree-view-column-new-with-attributes "Tipo de nota" (make-instance 'gtk-cell-renderer-text) "text" 4))
2020-07-27T17:30:17Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:31:40Z shka_: asarch: use local variables to hold intermediate arguments
2020-07-27T17:32:34Z shka_: sometimes it is also better to define smaller functions
2020-07-27T17:32:48Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:32:49Z shka_: so i guess the usual way :-)
2020-07-27T17:33:10Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:36:55Z aeth: asarch: use LET*
2020-07-27T17:37:08Z icov0x29a__ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:37:17Z asarch: Wouldn't that overload the process?
2020-07-27T17:37:25Z phoe: overload?
2020-07-27T17:37:27Z phoe: what do you mean
2020-07-27T17:39:06Z phoe: if I understand the code correctly, then https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1970#1970
2020-07-27T17:41:11Z mfiano: On SBCL, those locals will probably not even be stack-allocated, depending on SBCL's register allocator.
2020-07-27T17:43:13Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T17:44:34Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:46:35Z asarch: Overload in the sense of C's ptr = malloc(...); several times
2020-07-27T17:48:09Z phoe: I don't understand in the slightest, what's ptr, why malloc, and how did we suddenly go into C
2020-07-27T17:48:48Z jgodbou quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T17:53:34Z asarch: Garbage collector
2020-07-27T17:53:53Z phoe: I still don't understand what does garbage collector have to do with this
2020-07-27T17:54:22Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T17:54:38Z phoe: whatever garbage you collect with the non-LET* version you also create with the LET* version
2020-07-27T17:56:39Z phoe: s/collect/create/
2020-07-27T17:56:41Z asarch: I see
2020-07-27T17:56:42Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:56:43Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-27T17:56:47Z asarch takes notes...
2020-07-27T17:57:07Z phoe: you don't magically prevent memory allocation by making variables
2020-07-27T17:59:29Z phoe: or by not making them
2020-07-27T17:59:42Z shka_: asarch: don't make it complicated for yourself
2020-07-27T18:00:02Z shka_: until you run into a real problem, don't overthink
2020-07-27T18:00:43Z asarch: Ok
2020-07-27T18:00:47Z shka_: and in that case, it makes 0 difference
2020-07-27T18:00:59Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T18:03:21Z enrioog joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:05:37Z enrio quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T18:17:25Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-27T18:19:21Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:21:31Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:21:56Z seok: Is it possible to turn off style warning when using a particular macro in sbcl?
2020-07-27T18:22:06Z avalos joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:22:28Z seok: I have a let form in a macro and sometimes I don't use a variable set in the let form, triggers a style warning
2020-07-27T18:22:59Z avalos left #lisp
2020-07-27T18:23:40Z mfiano: (locally (declare #+sbcl (sb-ext:muffle-conditions style-warning)) ..)
2020-07-27T18:23:47Z dlowe: add (declare (ignorable variable-name))
2020-07-27T18:24:10Z mfiano: Oh yes, what dlowe said
2020-07-27T18:24:12Z seok: mfiano that will turn off all style warnings won't it? I'd like to keep it
2020-07-27T18:24:15Z seok: yeah ty dlowe
2020-07-27T18:24:26Z gioyik quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T18:24:31Z dlowe: IGNORE will warn if you do use it, IGNORABLE turns off the warning
2020-07-27T18:25:14Z seok: fantastic, it works!
2020-07-27T18:25:47Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T18:25:59Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-27T18:26:09Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:34:50Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:37:45Z lucasb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:39:17Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:39:19Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:39:48Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-27T18:39:50Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T18:40:13Z Lycurgus quit (Quit: Exeunt)
2020-07-27T18:40:28Z Harag quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-27T18:40:30Z philweb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T18:41:42Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:42:04Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:44:23Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T18:47:44Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T18:47:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:49:37Z philadendrite joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:50:49Z philadendrite: G'day people
2020-07-27T18:50:54Z phoe: helloooo
2020-07-27T18:50:56Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:52:03Z luckless_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T18:55:00Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:55:10Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:56:10Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T18:56:34Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-27T18:56:39Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:57:13Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-27T18:57:34Z notzmv is now known as Guest49630
2020-07-27T18:58:05Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T19:00:06Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:10:01Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:10:58Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:11:20Z Frobozz_ quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-27T19:11:58Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T19:12:14Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:14:03Z choegusung left #lisp
2020-07-27T19:14:26Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:14:26Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-27T19:14:26Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:15:31Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:17:30Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:17:41Z seok: What is wrong with this macro? https://pastebin.com/EYb0QZEz
2020-07-27T19:18:02Z phoe: variable capture
2020-07-27T19:18:17Z phoe: multiple evaluation
2020-07-27T19:18:29Z seok: What is that?
2020-07-27T19:18:47Z seok: gee you are fast
2020-07-27T19:18:49Z phoe: inside MACROLET, GAME is still quoted
2020-07-27T19:19:26Z seok: can I ,quote even though it is not passed as a parameter?
2020-07-27T19:19:28Z seok: ,game
2020-07-27T19:19:30Z phoe: I don't know what you achieve by NOT in there
2020-07-27T19:19:39Z seok: player is t / nil
2020-07-27T19:19:44Z phoe: oh, okay then
2020-07-27T19:19:44Z seok: it is to select opponent
2020-07-27T19:19:48Z phoe: backquote doesn't know anything about parameters
2020-07-27T19:19:53Z seok: yeah
2020-07-27T19:20:00Z phoe: it's a tool for creating list structure
2020-07-27T19:20:07Z seok: I imagined it will expand to (gethash t/nil game)
2020-07-27T19:20:19Z seok: when calling (hand t/nil)
2020-07-27T19:20:21Z phoe: yes, but GAME will be just a symbol by then
2020-07-27T19:20:26Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:20:30Z gioyik quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:20:35Z phoe: which is yet another instance of variable capture
2020-07-27T19:20:59Z seok: Can I fix it with (game ,game) inside let?
2020-07-27T19:21:10Z phoe: not really
2020-07-27T19:21:10Z seok: let*
2020-07-27T19:21:39Z seok: how do I pass the game hash without calling it as a parameter in macrolet?
2020-07-27T19:21:40Z phoe: I suggest you use ONCE-ONLY and WITH-GENSYMS to solve both multiple evaluation and variable capture
2020-07-27T19:21:42Z seok: is it not possible?
2020-07-27T19:21:58Z phoe: and should also solve the problem with game passing if you ONCE-ONLY the game
2020-07-27T19:23:24Z phoe: have you read On Lisp? it's a good primer for macrowriters
2020-07-27T19:23:32Z seok: I am still reading it
2020-07-27T19:23:33Z seok: xDD
2020-07-27T19:23:59Z phoe: perfect!
2020-07-27T19:24:01Z phoe: keep on reading then
2020-07-27T19:24:13Z mfiano: Except it is filled with [wanted] anaphoric capturing, which may not align with conventions of most :)
2020-07-27T19:24:21Z seok: does it have a chapter on this topic?
2020-07-27T19:24:31Z phoe: seok: AFAIK chapters 8-10 describe common macro pitfalls
2020-07-27T19:24:39Z phoe: and these are the chapters I'd suggest
2020-07-27T19:24:40Z seok: Is this one of them?
2020-07-27T19:24:42Z seok: xD
2020-07-27T19:24:46Z bitmapper: fun
2020-07-27T19:24:48Z mfiano: Oh nevermind, I am confusing Let Over Lambda
2020-07-27T19:24:54Z bitmapper: this is still driving me insane
2020-07-27T19:24:58Z phoe: seok: yes
2020-07-27T19:25:03Z seok: Nice
2020-07-27T19:25:10Z bitmapper: "The function SB-C::%MORE-ARG-CONTEXT is undefined."
2020-07-27T19:25:11Z mfiano: Which is another book on the power of macros, but take what the author says with a grain of salt if you read that one
2020-07-27T19:25:14Z phoe: mfiano: yes, LoL has lots of creative borderline-useless macrology
2020-07-27T19:25:20Z phoe: bitmapper: what is the context of this error?
2020-07-27T19:25:29Z bitmapper: i wish i knew
2020-07-27T19:25:42Z phoe: bitmapper: no, wait a second, you get this error from *somewhere*
2020-07-27T19:25:58Z phoe: you do something before this error pops up, what is it?
2020-07-27T19:26:03Z phoe: or at least what is the backtrace and such?
2020-07-27T19:26:08Z bitmapper: i can't backtrace
2020-07-27T19:26:13Z phoe: ...why?
2020-07-27T19:26:21Z bitmapper: the compiler crashes
2020-07-27T19:26:36Z mfiano: Then check your inferior lisp buffer. It will contain the stack trace
2020-07-27T19:26:46Z seok: yeah chapter 9 is on variable capture
2020-07-27T19:26:50Z bitmapper: this is like 300 levels deep into ancient cltl mixed with ansi mixed with bootleg scheme mixed with haskell
2020-07-27T19:26:57Z phoe: oh
2020-07-27T19:27:05Z phoe: god sped you
2020-07-27T19:27:05Z bitmapper: and i hate it
2020-07-27T19:27:08Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:27:13Z bitmapper: i got it working on ccl
2020-07-27T19:27:31Z bitmapper: i want yale haskell and nobody can stop me :v
2020-07-27T19:27:47Z bitmapper: ; caught COMMON-LISP:WARNING:
2020-07-27T19:27:48Z bitmapper: ;   undefined variable: COMMON-LISP:FIXNUM
2020-07-27T19:27:57Z bitmapper: ; caught COMMON-LISP:WARNING:
2020-07-27T19:27:57Z bitmapper: ;   undefined variable: SB-INT:INDEX
2020-07-27T19:28:03Z bitmapper: oh no
2020-07-27T19:28:40Z phoe: "undefined variable: SB-INT:INDEX"
2020-07-27T19:28:42Z bitmapper: ; caught COMMON-LISP:WARNING:
2020-07-27T19:28:42Z bitmapper: ;   undefined variable: COMMON-LISP:LIST
2020-07-27T19:28:42Z phoe: wait a second
2020-07-27T19:28:43Z bitmapper: oh NO
2020-07-27T19:28:58Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:29:02Z phoe: nope, not touching that code
2020-07-27T19:29:14Z bitmapper: oh
2020-07-27T19:29:22Z bitmapper: oh, that's actually a rather simple fix
2020-07-27T19:29:25Z bitmapper: i remember now
2020-07-27T19:29:43Z bitmapper: it defines a macro called type which makes sbcl very angry
2020-07-27T19:30:17Z bitmapper: ; caught COMMON-LISP:WARNING:
2020-07-27T19:30:17Z bitmapper: ;   Constant 0 conflicts with its asserted type TYPE.
2020-07-27T19:31:55Z bitmapper: oh
2020-07-27T19:32:03Z bitmapper: phoe: it declares a type called type
2020-07-27T19:32:05Z Frobozz joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:32:08Z bitmapper: which like
2020-07-27T19:32:10Z bitmapper: breaks everything
2020-07-27T19:32:19Z phoe: bitmapper: wait, that's illegal
2020-07-27T19:32:23Z bitmapper: because you can do type declarations like this
2020-07-27T19:32:27Z bitmapper: (type typespec var*)
2020-07-27T19:32:27Z bitmapper: (typespec var*)
2020-07-27T19:32:37Z bitmapper: oh my god that's hilarious
2020-07-27T19:32:39Z phoe: bitmapper: did you unlock the CL package?
2020-07-27T19:32:42Z bitmapper: perhaps
2020-07-27T19:32:46Z phoe: well then
2020-07-27T19:32:47Z bitmapper: :>
2020-07-27T19:32:56Z phoe: you're no longer on charted territory, good luck
2020-07-27T19:32:59Z bitmapper: i didn't actually need to unlock it
2020-07-27T19:33:20Z phoe: ......is this that weird yale haskell code that unlocks the CL package for you?
2020-07-27T19:33:25Z Frobozz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T19:33:42Z bitmapper: phoe: no
2020-07-27T19:33:47Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:33:58Z bitmapper: it expects the cl package to be called lisp iirc
2020-07-27T19:34:04Z phoe: yes, that's CLtL1
2020-07-27T19:34:13Z phoe: and I'm asking because (deftype cl:type () 'integer) is illegal
2020-07-27T19:34:23Z bitmapper: yes
2020-07-27T19:34:24Z bitmapper: debugger invoked on a SB-EXT:SYMBOL-PACKAGE-LOCKED-ERROR in thread #<THREAD "main thread" RUNNING {10008A0083}>: Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when defining TYPE as a structure while in package MUMBLE-USER.
2020-07-27T19:34:41Z phoe: as a structure... oh goodness
2020-07-27T19:34:41Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:35:01Z phoe: I guess you can (:shadow #:type) in DEFPACKAGE MUMBLE-USER
2020-07-27T19:35:51Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:38:07Z bitmapper: phoe: or i could do it the better way and modify the custom reader for the bootleg scheme to replace type with a different symbol
2020-07-27T19:38:15Z bitmapper: because that doesn't work anyway
2020-07-27T19:38:33Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-27T19:39:01Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:40:44Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:43:15Z bitmapper: i'm kidding myself
2020-07-27T19:43:17Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T19:43:17Z bitmapper: there is no better way
2020-07-27T19:43:34Z abhixec joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:43:58Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:44:30Z phoe: this is going to work in the short run
2020-07-27T19:44:50Z phoe: but in the long run someone (read: likely you) is going to get very confused that something like that is going on in there.
2020-07-27T19:44:59Z phoe: so I suggest proper packaging and shadowing instead
2020-07-27T19:46:05Z aurelius quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:46:14Z vornth quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T19:46:32Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:48:04Z MightyJoe joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:49:36Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:49:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:49:52Z netctrl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:50:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:50:34Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:51:37Z Guest49630 is now known as notzmv
2020-07-27T19:52:57Z contrapunctus: minion: registration, please?
2020-07-27T19:52:57Z minion: The URL https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/users/sign_in?secret=2be64d44 will be valid until 20:00 UTC.
2020-07-27T19:53:30Z contrapunctus: I like that heading - "Registration on gitlab.c-l.net made harder" 😄
2020-07-27T19:53:46Z icov0x29a__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-27T19:54:02Z phoe: the bots are having it real hard on clnet gitlab
2020-07-27T19:54:32Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:54:55Z MightyJoe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:55:05Z contrapunctus: "Invalid login or password" 😣
2020-07-27T19:55:06Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:55:37Z contrapunctus: (Since I use a password manager, I usually take that to mean something excessively screwy has taken place.)
2020-07-27T19:55:50Z phoe: contrapunctus: try asking on #common-lisp.net
2020-07-27T19:56:21Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:57:10Z contrapunctus: Oh, it seems I was supposed to register again with that link.
2020-07-27T19:57:16Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:57:40Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T19:58:31Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-27T19:59:41Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:00:11Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-27T20:01:22Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:01:25Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-27T20:03:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T20:04:30Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:04:39Z borei joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:04:48Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:07:32Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T20:07:42Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:08:59Z xkapastel joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:11:27Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T20:14:06Z bitmapper: phoe: screw it
2020-07-27T20:14:07Z bitmapper: gcl time
2020-07-27T20:14:44Z phoe: truly dead code requires truly dead implementations
2020-07-27T20:15:15Z bitmapper: im pretty sure the code is more deaderer than gcl
2020-07-27T20:15:21Z bitmapper: last commit like 3 months ago on gcl
2020-07-27T20:16:39Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:17:38Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T20:18:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:18:26Z MightyJoe joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:21:08Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T20:21:08Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T20:21:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T20:22:24Z luckless joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:23:05Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T20:27:08Z pd_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:27:09Z TwoNotes quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T20:29:20Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:29:20Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-27T20:29:20Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:30:22Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T20:37:05Z grewal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T20:37:22Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:38:20Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-27T20:41:48Z enrioog quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T20:54:03Z contrapunctus: Hm, thought I'd tweak the CSS of iterate's HTML documentation to improve reading on mobile...but I guess I'm the only nut who reads programming texts on their phone, and my CSS-fu isn't so strong that I can fix it without changing the way it looks on desktops. 😓
2020-07-27T21:00:14Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T21:01:26Z gxt quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-27T21:01:46Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T21:02:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T21:02:23Z seok: use media query?
2020-07-27T21:05:06Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T21:05:40Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-27T21:07:05Z ^ is now known as uplime
2020-07-27T21:07:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T21:07:26Z pd_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T21:08:55Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-27T21:10:37Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-27T21:15:40Z seok: PG says ,@ should be used in a sequence. does this mean it can be used in strings? (how?)
2020-07-27T21:15:58Z seok: I thought the only use for it was in a list
2020-07-27T21:16:47Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T21:18:29Z _death: not strings, but `#(1 ,@(list 2 3))
2020-07-27T21:18:57Z seok: Oh
2020-07-27T21:19:02Z seok: Interesting
2020-07-27T21:19:37Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-27T21:19:39Z White_Flame: hmm, if commas did replacements inside strings, that would be another thing to have to escape
2020-07-27T21:20:19Z seok: White_Flame there is already format tho
2020-07-27T21:20:33Z White_Flame: right
2020-07-27T21:20:58Z seok: guess "this is the value of x ,x" could be easier to read
2020-07-27T21:21:32Z White_Flame: I have (debug-expression x) for that, as well as (debug-stuff &rest anything)
2020-07-27T21:21:49Z White_Flame: so I tend not to have to use FORMAT much for actual stdout reporting
2020-07-27T21:22:12Z seok: you have a better format?
2020-07-27T21:22:20Z seok: is that your util?
2020-07-27T21:22:21Z White_Flame: it just prints stuff
2020-07-27T21:22:32Z White_Flame: with a space between them
2020-07-27T21:22:58Z White_Flame: (let ((x 3)) (debug-expression x)) prints "X: 3" and newline
2020-07-27T21:23:09Z seok: Ah
2020-07-27T21:23:18Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-27T21:23:24Z White_Flame: simple but useful
2020-07-27T21:23:57Z seok: A lot of languages now have in-string formatting, guess we could write one for lisp
2020-07-27T21:24:07Z seok: Is there one already?
2020-07-27T21:24:14Z White_Flame: yeah, but FORMAT is fine, too
2020-07-27T21:24:19Z _death: cl-interpol is one
2020-07-27T21:24:19Z aeth: you can write a reader macro
2020-07-27T21:24:37Z seok: http://edicl.github.io/cl-interpol/ Ah nice
2020-07-27T21:24:48Z White_Flame: however, I think I would prefer an actual sexpr based one instead of magic chars in strings
2020-07-27T21:24:59Z _death: indeed
2020-07-27T21:25:01Z aeth: you could write a reader macro to just do the equivalent of #.(format nil "foo~%") as e.g. #%"foo~%" but idk if there are any useful 0-argument FORMAT directives other than ~%
2020-07-27T21:25:44Z White_Flame: eg (magic-string-thing "Value: " (float n :total-digits 10) ...) etc
2020-07-27T21:26:26Z aeth: White_Flame: eg #%("Hello ~A~%" name)
2020-07-27T21:26:40Z White_Flame: (magic-string-thing "Hello " name)
2020-07-27T21:27:01Z aeth: yes, but this has the advantage of being essentially sugar for (format nil ...)
2020-07-27T21:27:22Z _death: (constantia:outs "Value: " (:f 1.234 :digits-after-point 2)) ==> "Value: 1.23"
2020-07-27T21:27:25Z aeth: #%"..." for 0 args or #%("..." ...) for 0+ args
2020-07-27T21:27:28Z White_Flame: why?  getting away from format's magic characters & having to have the field specifier & value in 2 different places would be the point
2020-07-27T21:28:04Z seok: why can't we have both?
2020-07-27T21:28:11Z ahungry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T21:28:12Z seok: we have both '() and (quote nil)
2020-07-27T21:28:14Z White_Flame: the vast majority of FORMAT usage does not use a singular passed-in format string to be used against other values
2020-07-27T21:28:26Z White_Flame: eg, passed in from outside the format call itself
2020-07-27T21:28:41Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-27T21:28:47Z White_Flame: so keeping canonical string templates as singular items gets in the way of most usage
2020-07-27T21:33:13Z aurelius quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-27T21:33:33Z White_Flame: _death: where's constantia?  search engines are failing me
2020-07-27T21:34:05Z _death: https://github.com/death/constantia/blob/master/out.lisp
2020-07-27T21:34:13Z White_Flame: cool, thx
2020-07-27T21:42:02Z ralt: I often have (defun cat (&rest args) (apply #'concatenate 'string args)) in my projects
2020-07-27T21:42:12Z phoe: uiop:strcat
2020-07-27T21:42:22Z phoe: but then again, uiop
2020-07-27T21:43:23Z ralt: Oh, didn't know about it
2020-07-27T21:43:35Z ralt: I use uiop everywhere already so that's helpful
2020-07-27T21:46:32Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-27T21:46:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T21:47:55Z phoe: don't we all
2020-07-27T21:48:12Z phoe: only the strongest wills of us gathered here still decline to give in to its sweet but painful promises
2020-07-27T21:49:45Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T21:50:17Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-27T21:50:22Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T21:52:32Z _death: the traditional name for this function is string-append.. but it was removed from CL
2020-07-27T21:58:11Z seok: phoe  wait! I didn't know this
2020-07-27T21:58:13Z seok: ty
2020-07-27T22:02:11Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-27T22:03:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T22:13:01Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-27T22:15:06Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T22:19:39Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-27T22:20:22Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-27T22:22:34Z seok quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-27T22:25:50Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-27T22:27:29Z aaaaaa quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-27T22:36:27Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-27T22:39:43Z aeth: string-append is also going to be available from my Scheme-in-CL, for when you want to pull in an entire, unused Scheme runtime just to call (apply #'concatenate 'string strings)
2020-07-27T22:39:52Z aeth: (You know someone is going to do it eventually.)
2020-07-27T22:40:35Z _death: but does it have string-nconc?
2020-07-27T22:40:55Z aeth: no, Schemes generally frown on such things.
2020-07-27T22:41:24Z aeth: plus, to truly nconc you'd need the first to be an adjustable string buffer rather than a simple-string, which I doubt is expected behavior
2020-07-27T22:41:25Z _death: hehe.. lisp machine lisp had it.. it modified the first argument
2020-07-27T22:42:57Z aeth: It's such unexpected behavior, MAKE-STRING doesn't even directly support it with an :adjustable key. You have to MAKE-ARRAY with :element-type 'character, e.g. (make-array 10 :element-type 'character :adjustable t)
2020-07-27T22:44:06Z aeth: Of course, maybe everything was implicitly adjustable in Lisp Machines, but they had the benefit of having hardware support
2020-07-27T22:44:21Z _death: I guess it wasn't useful enough to survive, although FORMAT can be supplied with an array which it will modify
2020-07-27T22:44:54Z aeth: which is almost entirely redundant with WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING, although it'd be a bit more concise and potentially a bit more efficient
2020-07-27T22:45:50Z _death: may be useful when you want to reuse the storage
2020-07-27T22:46:02Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T22:46:32Z aeth: The same sort of person who got rid of string-append for being redundant with concatenate probably would oppose the FORMAT string buffer feature over WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING. That there's an inconsistency like that shows it was designed by committee :-p
2020-07-27T22:47:50Z _death: you mean string-nconc? :)
2020-07-27T22:51:43Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:00:03Z pve quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T23:02:42Z xkapastel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-27T23:04:23Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:04:34Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:06:56Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:06:57Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-27T23:10:02Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-27T23:10:34Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:10:41Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:11:56Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-27T23:15:39Z fwoaroof[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:15:51Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:19:05Z aaaaaa left #lisp
2020-07-27T23:20:50Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T23:20:58Z aurelius quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:21:42Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:24:16Z elflng quit (Read error: No route to host)
2020-07-27T23:24:36Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T23:25:35Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:26:02Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-27T23:26:36Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:28:10Z elflng joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:29:19Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T23:29:38Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:33:45Z luna_is_here_ joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:34:21Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:35:01Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:36:17Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:36:28Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:37:13Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:39:31Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:39:47Z luna_is_here_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:41:05Z Alfr: This is a first or so I think, would anybody else consider the folloing strange? https://gitlab.com/Harleqin/arrows/-/raw/master/LICENSE.html
2020-07-27T23:41:09Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-27T23:41:43Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:41:45Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:42:08Z aeth: CC0 isn't too unusual, although I normally see it more for things like documentation than code
2020-07-27T23:42:17Z aeth: The license as HTML is pretty unusual, though
2020-07-27T23:42:45Z Alfr: No, I mean the formatting of the HTML itself. ;)
2020-07-27T23:42:45Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:43:09Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:44:11Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:44:12Z ayuce quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-27T23:44:30Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:45:41Z aeth: It actually looks pretty nice
2020-07-27T23:46:36Z aeth: Idk about always putting the closing tag on the same line as the prior thing, but that also removes ambiguity
2020-07-27T23:48:32Z fwoaroof[m]: It might not matter here, but Creative Commons recommends that their licenses not be used for software
2020-07-27T23:48:37Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:49:06Z aeth: Normally, you'd have to distinguish between on-their-own-line tags like </html> and inline tags like </b>, but then there's ambiguity, like </a> in the case of this html file
2020-07-27T23:49:38Z nckx is now known as ^
2020-07-27T23:49:46Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:49:46Z aeth: Consistently putting end tags at the end of the line makes a much simpler auto-formatter for machine-generated HTML
2020-07-27T23:50:37Z ^ is now known as nckx
2020-07-27T23:52:25Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:52:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-27T23:53:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-27T23:55:40Z Alfr: aeth, it's nice but also looks strange at the same time.
2020-07-27T23:56:16Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-27T23:56:25Z aeth: Alfr: It would look a bit better, done by hand, if most of the tags were on their own line, like e.g. the </a>
2020-07-27T23:56:31Z aeth: But then you'd have to be smart about when to do it and when not to do it
2020-07-27T23:56:46Z aeth: and that would quickly become a large part of the library
2020-07-28T00:00:51Z philweb joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:01:09Z Alfr: aeth, I suspect it's hand rolled, just mentally replace tag pairs by parens and <x /> tags by (), and it looks like well indented lisp code.
2020-07-28T00:02:15Z aeth: The only thing that makes it look not automated is the apparent inconsistency in the indentation, although that might just be because of different rules because there's not much of a sample to go off of.
2020-07-28T00:02:46Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T00:04:58Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-28T00:05:27Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:05:47Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T00:06:22Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-28T00:06:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T00:07:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:13:02Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:16:00Z shrysr-test joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:17:39Z shrysr-test left #lisp
2020-07-28T00:20:30Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T00:20:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:22:50Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:23:28Z seok: fron On Lisp If you’re writing a CAD program, for example, the best results will sometimes come from writing it in two layers: a language (or if you prefer a more modest term, a toolkit) for CAD programs, and in the layer above, your particular application.
2020-07-28T00:23:55Z seok: Do you sometimes ship a package without (:use #:cl)?
2020-07-28T00:24:19Z fwoaroof[m]: seok: occasionally, although it's rare
2020-07-28T00:24:48Z fwoaroof[m]: One use-case is code machine-generated from a spec, where you don't want to worry about name collisions
2020-07-28T00:26:44Z seok: yeah
2020-07-28T00:27:10Z fwoaroof[m]: Although, to be conforming, you need (defpackage :foo (:use)) not (defpackage :foo)
2020-07-28T00:27:28Z seok: if emacs or autocad was written in CL, the emacs lisp or cadlisp layer won't export :cl eh?
2020-07-28T00:27:46Z fwoaroof[m]: it wouldn't (:use) :cl
2020-07-28T00:27:50Z seok: yeah
2020-07-28T00:28:08Z fwoaroof[m]: Because the :elisp package has different semantics
2020-07-28T00:28:40Z fwoaroof[m]: Although, honestly, if you're implementing emacs in CL, you probably just use common lisp + a package of emacs-specific code for configuration
2020-07-28T00:28:54Z seok: This could be used to implement security features for applications accepting more dynamic user inputs?
2020-07-28T00:29:28Z fwoaroof[m]: Maybe, you have to be careful since READ is able to execute arbitrary code
2020-07-28T00:29:44Z seok: but the final layer won't ship read
2020-07-28T00:29:47Z seok: so it cannot be called
2020-07-28T00:29:53Z fwoaroof[m]: But, if you fix that and force all function calls and variable access to come from one package, you're ok
2020-07-28T00:30:05Z fwoaroof[m]: seok: yeah, but you also can't call READ on untrusted user input
2020-07-28T00:30:19Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:30:58Z seok: Is this used this way often? feels like I found a nice hack to worry less about security
2020-07-28T00:31:33Z fwoaroof[m]: No
2020-07-28T00:31:34Z Alfr: fwoaroof[m], why would (defpackage :foo) be non-conforming?
2020-07-28T00:32:00Z fwoaroof[m]: Well, it's non-conforming to expect that that package doesn't :USE any other packages
2020-07-28T00:32:16Z fwoaroof[m]: Without a (:use) clause there, the implementation is free to inject any packages it wants
2020-07-28T00:32:28Z fwoaroof[m]: And, I believe CCL and LispWorks take advantage of this
2020-07-28T00:32:56Z fwoaroof[m]: clhs defpacakge
2020-07-28T00:32:56Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for defpacakge.
2020-07-28T00:32:57Z Alfr: Ah, good to know, so not portable.
2020-07-28T00:33:00Z fwoaroof[m]: clhs defpackage
2020-07-28T00:33:00Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm
2020-07-28T00:33:22Z fwoaroof[m]: Yeah, "If :use is not supplied, it defaults to the same implementation-dependent value as the :use argument to make-package"
2020-07-28T00:33:53Z fwoaroof[m]: Which basically means that any DEFUN or DEFPARAMETER potentially overrides something important
2020-07-28T00:34:58Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T00:37:09Z Alfr: ccl certainly does, nice thing is that such a package seems to mimic a cl-user on startup.
2020-07-28T00:38:56Z bilegeek joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:39:48Z fwoaroof[m]: This is one reason to test your code on at least two implementations :)
2020-07-28T00:40:39Z fwoaroof[m]: sbcl's compatibility policy is "inwards-compatibility", afaik: they interpret a spec to maximize the likelihood that code that works on other implementations works in sbcl
2020-07-28T00:41:01Z fwoaroof[m]: ccl/LispWorks don't take this approach
2020-07-28T00:41:12Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-28T00:42:33Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:47:20Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T00:48:35Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T00:48:40Z Alfr: fwoaroof[m], make-package says it's implementation-defined, thus it should be documented, were we to read the docs. :D
2020-07-28T00:51:27Z mpontillo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T00:51:27Z XachX quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T00:51:35Z mpontillo joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:51:39Z XachX joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:52:17Z cg505_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T00:52:27Z cg505 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T00:53:34Z aeth: yeah, CCL's interpretation of the spec is to break your code that works everywhere else :-p
2020-07-28T00:53:37Z aeth: definitely test under CCL
2020-07-28T00:54:23Z fwoaroof[m]: I'm happy about that, honestly, it makes it easier for me to use OSS lisp from lispworks :)
2020-07-28T00:55:40Z Alfr: I think that's worth having, if only I use it for testing. But accidentally I already test for sbcl, ccl and when I have noting better to do also for ecl, the last one's rare.
2020-07-28T00:56:29Z fwoaroof[m]: I wish more people tested on abcl
2020-07-28T00:56:57Z fwoaroof[m]: It mostly just works, but when you're in a Java shop, it'd be nice to have some way to write tooling in lisp
2020-07-28T00:57:06Z fwoaroof[m]:  * It mostly just works, but when you're in a Java shop, it'd be nice to have some way to write tooling in a real lisp
2020-07-28T00:57:12Z fwoaroof[m]:  * It mostly just works, but when you're in a Java shop, it'd be nice to have some way to write tooling in lisp
2020-07-28T00:58:48Z fwoaroof[m]: (sorry about the spam, still getting used to IRC via matrix)
2020-07-28T00:59:42Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:02:15Z cjb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-28T01:02:31Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T01:02:45Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:03:21Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-28T01:03:59Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:04:32Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:07:18Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T01:07:21Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:08:45Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T01:09:24Z aurelius quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T01:11:10Z tanners joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:11:28Z seok: Why do I get #undefined-function error for deck here? https://pastebin.com/RKvNyRnq
2020-07-28T01:11:38Z seok: deck is obviously a macro in macrolet?
2020-07-28T01:12:13Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:12:57Z White_Flame: I get unbound-variable x
2020-07-28T01:13:10Z seok: here I will upload full code
2020-07-28T01:13:22Z seok: White_Flame xD
2020-07-28T01:14:01Z fwoaroof[m]: @seok that's an odd use of MACROLET, FLET would probably be better?
2020-07-28T01:14:06Z gioyik quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T01:14:12Z seok: I want it to be setf'able
2020-07-28T01:14:29Z fwoaroof[m]: Ah, that makes sense
2020-07-28T01:14:35Z seok: xD
2020-07-28T01:15:14Z seok: White_Flame https://pastebin.com/DQFgc50U
2020-07-28T01:16:53Z seok: I tried using gensym like phoe suggested but that doesn't seem to be the problem
2020-07-28T01:17:06Z seok: my macro is probably wrong without gensym tho
2020-07-28T01:17:46Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:18:06Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T01:18:39Z White_Flame: I still get var GAME unbound
2020-07-28T01:18:51Z seok: that's the error I'm getting
2020-07-28T01:19:03Z seok: wait no it's not
2020-07-28T01:19:04Z seok: hang on
2020-07-28T01:19:09Z White_Flame: oh, Ithought you were getting DECK being an undefined function
2020-07-28T01:19:26Z seok: yeah
2020-07-28T01:19:41Z White_Flame: your defvar x probably wants to be defvar game?  since you refer to GAME hardcoded in your macroexpansion
2020-07-28T01:20:04Z seok: I probably don't want that, I want to use the game passed in the whole macro
2020-07-28T01:20:07Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T01:20:17Z White_Flame: oh, then you're probably missing commas before GAME in your macrolets
2020-07-28T01:20:22Z seok: yeah
2020-07-28T01:20:24Z seok: let me fix it
2020-07-28T01:20:30Z White_Flame: ,',
2020-07-28T01:20:34Z seok: sorry xD
2020-07-28T01:20:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:21:58Z seok: this? https://pastebin.com/Fvk3jiHR
2020-07-28T01:22:23Z White_Flame: did you try it?  macroexpansion is your friend
2020-07-28T01:22:35Z seok: I like the way macroexpand looks
2020-07-28T01:22:43Z seok: but it still gets error
2020-07-28T01:22:51Z seok: says nil is not a hashtable
2020-07-28T01:23:22Z White_Flame: I don't get an error, and I get a list 0 to 10
2020-07-28T01:23:42Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-28T01:23:56Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:24:18Z White_Flame: restart your image to clear out any old cruft that might be lurking
2020-07-28T01:24:30Z White_Flame: and maybe convert defvars to defparameters to reinitialize them during development
2020-07-28T01:26:09Z seok: Hm. running it on a new instance works
2020-07-28T01:26:28Z seok: Ahh
2020-07-28T01:26:38Z seok: yes my x was different
2020-07-28T01:26:47Z seok: you are right. sorry
2020-07-28T01:27:08Z White_Flame: restarting is very useful when modifying macros & defvars
2020-07-28T01:27:13Z White_Flame: or renaming things
2020-07-28T01:27:15Z seok: for macros too?
2020-07-28T01:27:24Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:27:43Z White_Flame: sure, any code that was built before was built with an older version of the macro, so you need to force everything to be rebuilt
2020-07-28T01:27:53Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:27:54Z seok: Indeed
2020-07-28T01:28:01Z White_Flame: asdf normally takes care of that for you regarding file write times
2020-07-28T01:28:09Z White_Flame: if your dependencies are correct
2020-07-28T01:28:29Z White_Flame: but still, restarting is good to ensure that what's in your image accurately reflects your source code
2020-07-28T01:28:40Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T01:28:44Z fwoaroof[m]: I usually use DELETE-PACKAGE for this
2020-07-28T01:28:45Z White_Flame: for some threshold of change
2020-07-28T01:28:53Z fwoaroof[m]: 90% of the time it works really well
2020-07-28T01:29:51Z White_Flame: until you start having multiple packages you're editing across files :)
2020-07-28T01:30:01Z tanners quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T01:30:09Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:35:36Z seok: Ohhhh
2020-07-28T01:35:38Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T01:35:53Z seok: I was getting undefined function error because I didn't export deck
2020-07-28T01:35:56Z seok: -_-
2020-07-28T01:36:01Z seok: really sorry
2020-07-28T01:37:03Z seok: ugh, I can't use macros defined in macrolet in a macro from another package without exporting?
2020-07-28T01:37:15Z White_Flame: yeah, that's why macros often accept a varaible to use, instead of hardcoding their own.  For API stuff like that, though, it would be weird
2020-07-28T01:37:27Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T01:37:43Z White_Flame: (other:macro .... (other:macro-provided-utility a b c))
2020-07-28T01:38:15Z fwoaroof[m]: White_Flame: yeah, what I really want is some way to diff the list of packages before and after loading a system
2020-07-28T01:38:16Z Alfr: seok, did you unintern the wrong deck symbol?
2020-07-28T01:38:23Z White_Flame: as an example of passing in a variable, some people extend COND to bind a variable to the value of the test
2020-07-28T01:38:32Z fwoaroof[m]: It's trivial to implement, I guess
2020-07-28T01:38:44Z White_Flame: so (cond ((foo) ... here the var IT would be bound to the non-NIL return value of FOO))
2020-07-28T01:38:48Z seok: Alfr, no I defined a macro deck in a macro from another package
2020-07-28T01:38:49Z White_Flame: or cond* etc
2020-07-28T01:39:03Z White_Flame: but that means you need the same variable IT, meaning importing it
2020-07-28T01:39:05Z seok: it turns out when I macro expand it, it expands to pkg:deck
2020-07-28T01:39:31Z White_Flame: if you had (my-cond x ((foo) ....))) and the my-cond bound the var you passed in, then that X will always be in the current package of your source code by default
2020-07-28T01:39:32Z fwoaroof[m]: Another way to handle this is to define your macros as global macros that just throw errors
2020-07-28T01:39:43Z fwoaroof[m]: But, yeah, you have to export the symbol, otherwise the user won't be able to access them
2020-07-28T01:39:44Z White_Flame: yep
2020-07-28T01:39:50Z Alfr: seok, you could export the deck symbol.
2020-07-28T01:39:54Z seok: yeah
2020-07-28T01:40:12Z seok: this kinda breaks my intention of using macrolet tho
2020-07-28T01:40:25Z seok: I didn't want to clog up a symbol
2020-07-28T01:40:51Z Kaisyu7 joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:41:18Z fwoaroof[m]: You can't help that: symbols aren't really strings, they're unique objects that have a name
2020-07-28T01:41:39Z fwoaroof[m]: but, like (= t (not (= '#:a '#:a)))
2020-07-28T01:41:52Z fwoaroof[m]: oops, that's clojure...
2020-07-28T01:41:55Z aeth: eq
2020-07-28T01:42:01Z fwoaroof[m]: (eq t (not (eq '#:a '#:a)))
2020-07-28T01:42:23Z aeth: well, there are two schools of thought, one is always eql as the lowest level equality, the other is that eq is OK for symbols
2020-07-28T01:42:30Z seok: ughh
2020-07-28T01:42:37Z fwoaroof[m]: I'm using eq for object identity aeth
2020-07-28T01:42:55Z fwoaroof[m]: If you can't use the package to lookup the symbol naming a macro, you can't refer to the macro, by design
2020-07-28T01:43:48Z seok: Does reader macro do what I want? I don't want to touch reader macros atm tho
2020-07-28T01:44:34Z fwoaroof[m]: Not really, the only way to do what you want is to generate the symbols dynamically
2020-07-28T01:44:38Z fwoaroof[m]: or to pass them in
2020-07-28T01:44:57Z fwoaroof[m]: dynamic symbol generation is a bit tricky to get right, though
2020-07-28T01:45:29Z seok: I want to (deck y) => (gethash "deck" y) inside the body
2020-07-28T01:45:36Z seok: from another package
2020-07-28T01:45:41Z seok: without exporting deck
2020-07-28T01:45:47Z seok: but its not possible?
2020-07-28T01:46:19Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-28T01:47:13Z ralt quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-28T01:47:32Z Alfr: whatever you do for this to work, you're shadowing the meaning of (deck foo) in the package using yours.
2020-07-28T01:48:08Z Alfr: ... within the context of your macro.
2020-07-28T01:48:17Z seok: yeah
2020-07-28T01:48:20Z fwoaroof[m]: https://pastebin.com/jzvAtcHY
2020-07-28T01:48:23Z fwoaroof[m]: This sort of thing works
2020-07-28T01:48:41Z fwoaroof[m]: As I said, there are a couple edge cases that make it tricky to work the way you expect
2020-07-28T01:48:54Z fwoaroof[m]: readtable-case being the main one
2020-07-28T01:49:26Z fwoaroof[m]: And, side-effects like interning symbols during macroexpansion are a bit suspect.
2020-07-28T01:51:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T01:52:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:53:38Z seok: like this? https://pastebin.com/bT57HC8y
2020-07-28T01:54:22Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-28T01:55:13Z seok: oops interns should be in upper case
2020-07-28T02:00:02Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T02:00:40Z seok: Wow this works!
2020-07-28T02:00:47Z seok: tyvm fwoaroof[m]
2020-07-28T02:01:14Z seok: Is this a big danger? > And, side-effects like interning symbols during macroexpansion are a bit suspect.
2020-07-28T02:04:18Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T02:04:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T02:10:22Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-28T02:12:56Z Misha_B joined #lisp
2020-07-28T02:21:51Z jgodbou joined #lisp
2020-07-28T02:26:49Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T02:35:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T02:35:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T02:41:03Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-28T02:42:53Z cg505_ is now known as cg505\
2020-07-28T02:42:56Z cg505\ is now known as cg505
2020-07-28T02:50:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T02:50:52Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T02:52:23Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-28T02:57:50Z aurelius quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T02:59:25Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-28T02:59:33Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:00:24Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:01:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T03:01:55Z Alfr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:02:01Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:02:20Z asarch: Why not? http://paste.scsys.co.uk/592315
2020-07-28T03:03:17Z asarch: I am trying to connect the callback of the button to the (cheers) function of the class' protocol:
2020-07-28T03:03:21Z asarch: (g-signal-connect (boton instance) "clicked" (lambda (msg) (declare (ignore msg) (cheers instance))
2020-07-28T03:04:07Z Alfr quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T03:04:45Z asarch: Nevermind, I see the typo
2020-07-28T03:09:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T03:11:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:15:56Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T03:16:08Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:16:11Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:17:42Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T03:17:52Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T03:18:24Z jgodbou quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-28T03:21:02Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T03:22:05Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T03:24:47Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:26:52Z lucasb quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-28T03:28:08Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.2-dev)
2020-07-28T03:29:14Z seok: Hm, the downside of this https://pastebin.com/9Dgcbx3e is that I can only use defmacro instead of functions using let-game which uses macros (hand ..) or (deck ..)
2020-07-28T03:29:56Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T03:30:34Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:30:48Z sjl joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:31:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:34:28Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T03:36:41Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-28T03:37:20Z seok: morning!
2020-07-28T03:39:51Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-28T03:45:28Z yonkunas quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-28T03:48:52Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:49:46Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-28T03:50:11Z abhixec quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-28T03:51:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T03:59:13Z bilegeek quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T04:02:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-28T04:02:12Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T04:07:58Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-28T04:09:16Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-28T04:13:17Z karlosz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T04:14:34Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-28T04:15:00Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T04:15:28Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-28T04:16:28Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T04:16:39Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-28T04:17:55Z seok: How do I highlight which line of function is causing a type error?
2020-07-28T04:18:36Z beach: Hit `e' in the SLIME "debugger" in the appropriate stack frame.
2020-07-28T04:18:45Z beach: `e'?
2020-07-28T04:18:52Z beach: My fingers know it, but I don't.
2020-07-28T04:18:57Z beach: Maybe it is `s'.
2020-07-28T04:19:07Z seok: e?
2020-07-28T04:19:22Z seok: e goes to eval in frame
2020-07-28T04:19:23Z beach: I think `e' is eval-in-frame maybe.
2020-07-28T04:19:27Z beach: Yeah, so `s'.
2020-07-28T04:19:28Z seok: yeah
2020-07-28T04:19:36Z beach: Like I said, my fingers know it, but I don't.
2020-07-28T04:19:56Z beach: It happens to me a lot.
2020-07-28T04:20:23Z seok: something unbound my function TT
2020-07-28T04:20:45Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T04:21:18Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-28T04:21:41Z seok: Not currently single-stepping? and no continue restart available
2020-07-28T04:21:52Z seok: is this what I y
2020-07-28T04:21:55Z seok: want?
2020-07-28T04:22:09Z seok: s took me here
2020-07-28T04:22:35Z beach: If you hit an error, you can't really continue or step.  What would that even mean?
2020-07-28T04:22:46Z seok: I'm at a dead end
2020-07-28T04:23:07Z beach: "Fix this error using DWIM, and continue as if it never happened, please!"?
2020-07-28T04:23:17Z aeth quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T04:23:41Z seok: s took me there, not to the line of error
2020-07-28T04:23:42Z seok: : O
2020-07-28T04:23:46Z aeth joined #lisp
2020-07-28T04:24:20Z beach: Are you using SBCL?  Do you have a high value of your DEBUG OPTIMIZE quality?
2020-07-28T04:24:36Z seok: yes, and I don't know what that means
2020-07-28T04:24:44Z seok: I use portacle as shipped
2020-07-28T04:27:45Z vornth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T04:30:24Z borei quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T04:35:16Z stylewarning: seok: beach: it’s ‘v’
2020-07-28T04:35:31Z seok: ah tyvm
2020-07-28T04:35:47Z beach: stylewarning: Thanks.
2020-07-28T04:35:48Z stylewarning: ‘v’ on the stack frame of your choice
2020-07-28T04:36:07Z beach: Like I said, my fingers know it.
2020-07-28T04:36:45Z seok: How do I ask your fingers xD
2020-07-28T04:37:14Z beach: There is only one way, try it out and observe what the fingers do.
2020-07-28T04:38:02Z beach: I can't possibly be the only person experiencing this phenomenon.
2020-07-28T04:38:05Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T04:38:26Z seok: yeah, passwords for me
2020-07-28T04:38:28Z isaac` joined #lisp
2020-07-28T04:38:46Z isaac` is now known as iissaacc
2020-07-28T04:39:28Z beach: I don't even know my password(s).  So if the keyboard layout is different, I can't log in.
2020-07-28T04:40:34Z seok: remembering passwords is a 21st century dilema. password managers scream at you for have duplicate passwords on different sites
2020-07-28T04:41:31Z beach: seok: Anyway, this should teach you to go read the manual before asking.
2020-07-28T04:41:54Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T04:42:27Z beach: It is SOOO much more efficient for one person to read the manual, than for a few hundred people to read your question in order to determine whether they might be concerned.
2020-07-28T04:42:34Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-28T04:43:07Z seok: I don't even know which manual I should be reading tho, nor which part of it to read
2020-07-28T04:43:25Z seok: lisp has so much jargons that are hard to access without asking
2020-07-28T04:45:47Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-28T04:51:49Z philweb: Generally I'd start here: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm
2020-07-28T04:52:48Z philweb: (unless/until I know it's implementation-specific... then I'd look at the implementation docs)
2020-07-28T04:55:04Z beach: Except in this case, it is the SLIME manual.
2020-07-28T04:57:47Z philweb: sorry... I thought the frustration was referring to optimization from earlier in the thread
2020-07-28T04:58:20Z beach: Ah, yes, that one too.
2020-07-28T04:59:53Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:00:26Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T05:00:45Z karlosz quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-28T05:00:46Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T05:01:18Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:01:22Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:03:17Z stylewarning: seok: you can always PM me jargon and I’ll answer
2020-07-28T05:03:46Z seok: ty! appreciate it stylewarning
2020-07-28T05:03:55Z seok: are questions not welcome in this channel?
2020-07-28T05:04:03Z stylewarning: They are of course
2020-07-28T05:04:31Z karlosz quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-28T05:04:46Z seok: cool, just wondering if I missed a community trend
2020-07-28T05:05:12Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:09:03Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:09:46Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:13:05Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:24:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T05:24:53Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:25:59Z iissaacc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T05:26:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:26:38Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T05:35:03Z ahungry: I see where the statement is coming from, as there was a barrage of questions for simple things, but I disagree with the statement that its more efficient to read the manual than to ask - even if it takes 100 potential answerers 5 seconds to skim over and ignore the question or squelch the asker, 500 seconds is still going to be less than 10 minutes, and no one is reading an entire manual in 10 minutes (unless the manual is a readme.md
2020-07-28T05:35:03Z ahungry: file or something)
2020-07-28T05:35:57Z ahungry: I think tutorial/walk throughs tend to be the peak of efficiency for that (manuals are often very dry and better suited to look up information, not read straight through)
2020-07-28T05:37:32Z beach: seok: Questions are welcome, of course.  But your questions have been of such elementary nature that they don't necessarily belong here.  And I for one am now spacing out when you ask a question, because I don't even know where to start answering it, and the answer would be so long and contain so much off-topic stuff, that I might get kicked if I try.
2020-07-28T05:38:24Z seok: So how do I figure out whether a question is too elementary for this channel or not?
2020-07-28T05:38:54Z beach: Well, that's the problem isn't it.  Your background knowledge is not sufficient to determine that.
2020-07-28T05:42:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T05:42:05Z beach: Maybe I am wrong about the goals about #lisp, but it seems to me that this channel is about discussions related to Common Lisp, its implementations, and applications written in it.  I think that's why #clschool was created so that elementary questions would be directed there, thereby making it possible to keep the discussions here relevant.
2020-07-28T05:43:20Z seok: Sure, I'll head over to #clschool, good idea
2020-07-28T05:43:49Z philweb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-28T05:43:51Z beach: Take the question about (defparameter *x* '(a b c)) (defparameter *y* *x*) (push 'hello *y*).  That is neither about Common Lisp, its implementations, nor applications written in it.  It is basic knowledge about how must programming languages work.
2020-07-28T05:44:05Z beach: s/must/most/
2020-07-28T05:44:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:44:15Z philweb joined #lisp
2020-07-28T05:44:52Z seok: That's not one of the questions I asked, but that is an application written in lisp
2020-07-28T05:44:54Z beach: It works the same in C, C++, Python, C#, Java, etc.
2020-07-28T05:45:21Z stylewarning: This channel is about SICL and SICL accessories.
2020-07-28T05:45:28Z seok: it doesn't, because those languages don't work with cons
2020-07-28T05:45:33Z seok: python does not have (push
2020-07-28T05:45:49Z seok: there is .append, which is destructive
2020-07-28T05:46:27Z seok: Clearly, that example is lisp-specific, albeit I agree it is quite basic
2020-07-28T05:46:28Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-28T05:46:58Z stylewarning: seok: beach doesn’t mean the exact names or exact semantics exist elsewhere, but the general means for describing what’s happening is not necessarily a Lisp thing. (I don’t find it objectionable to ask such a question though.)
2020-07-28T05:46:59Z ahungry: actually I think that example is not good, mutating literals can be dangerous and have unexpected side effects - mutating the quoted list is not the same as mutating the unquoted (list a b c) variant
2020-07-28T05:47:09Z beach: stylewarning: Not sure why you uttered that.  I keep most of my SICL-related stuff to #sicl.
2020-07-28T05:47:28Z stylewarning: push doesn’t mutate anything but the value of a variable
2020-07-28T05:47:39Z beach: ahungry: I didn't mutate anything.
2020-07-28T05:47:52Z stylewarning: beach: it was a joke paying homage to an American cartoon
2020-07-28T05:47:57Z ahungry: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23002279/bizarre-quoted-list-example-from-on-lisp
2020-07-28T05:48:04Z seok: xD
2020-07-28T05:48:09Z beach: stylewarning: Lost on me.  Sorry.
2020-07-28T05:48:10Z ahungry: is push not destructive?  been awhile
2020-07-28T05:48:26Z seok: afaik it is not defined
2020-07-28T05:48:39Z stylewarning: ahungry: PUSH a x is roughly (setf x (cons a x))
2020-07-28T05:48:46Z seok: pop is defined to be destructive
2020-07-28T05:48:54Z beach: seok: what PUSH does is quite well defined.
2020-07-28T05:49:11Z seok: I mean whether it is destructive or not is defined
2020-07-28T05:49:12Z seok: is it?
2020-07-28T05:49:17Z beach: seok: what PUSH does is quite well defined.
2020-07-28T05:49:22Z ahungry: push modifies it in place, according to clhs - http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/m_push.htm
2020-07-28T05:49:30Z ahungry: and your bindings are bubbling up to a literal list
2020-07-28T05:49:37Z ahungry: and modifying a literal lits is undefined behavior in common lisp
2020-07-28T05:49:40Z ahungry: list*
2020-07-28T05:49:43Z beach: *sigh*
2020-07-28T05:49:53Z stylewarning: ahungry: what literal list is being modified?
2020-07-28T05:49:56Z beach: ahungry: The place here is the variable.
2020-07-28T05:50:11Z beach: ahungry: The value of the variable is modified, but not the list.
2020-07-28T05:50:15Z seok: Ah it is destructive
2020-07-28T05:50:17Z ahungry: (list a b c) is a freshly consed list, '(a b c) as in the sample pseudocode is a literal list
2020-07-28T05:50:26Z ahungry: you should never modify '(a b c)a
2020-07-28T05:50:32Z beach: ahungry: The value of the variable is modified, but not the list.
2020-07-28T05:50:37Z stylewarning: Is (a b c) being modified ahungry?
2020-07-28T05:50:57Z stylewarning: If it’s being modified then somewhere in the chain a (setf car) or (setf cdr) must be happening.
2020-07-28T05:51:03Z seok: no.. it's not destructive
2020-07-28T05:51:04Z seok: ok
2020-07-28T05:51:16Z stylewarning: Whose car or cdr is being set in (a b c)?
2020-07-28T05:51:30Z seok: beach so it is defined that the list is never mutated?
2020-07-28T05:51:34Z ahungry: Janet (a lisp-like) had a bad "non error" with their compiler with a similar scenario where unexpected behavior was observed when mutating top level literals
2020-07-28T05:51:51Z ahungry: because the compiler has the choice in undefined behavior there and in CL, to use the same pointer under the hood
2020-07-28T05:52:04Z beach: seok: I am not going to answer that, because you can't reduce the semantics to a yes/no.
2020-07-28T05:52:07Z ahungry: for the underlying literal list data structure
2020-07-28T05:52:19Z stylewarning: ahungry: if I do (defparameter x 1) then (setf x 2), am I modifying the integer literal 1?
2020-07-28T05:52:29Z seok: ok
2020-07-28T05:53:14Z beach: seok: If you do (push <something> <something-else>) and <something-else> is a simple variable, then the object contained in <something> is not going to be destructively modified.
2020-07-28T05:53:53Z beach: stylewarning: Nice example.
2020-07-28T05:55:02Z ahungry: This was what happened on janet: https://github.com/janet-lang/janet/issues/404 - I would be interested what happens with a similar CL setup using the initial sample, and a top level literal like a scalar or something else a parser reads as a single token is different than a data structure
2020-07-28T05:55:23Z stylewarning: ahungry: What do you think about my question?
2020-07-28T05:55:29Z beach: seok: Because, as stylewarning pointed out, then (push <something> <something-else) is the same as (setq <something-else> (cons <something> <something-else>)) and SETQ just modified the value of the variable, and CONS is not destructive.
2020-07-28T05:57:34Z beach: GAH!  I should have said: SETQ changes the association between the variable and its value.  It does not in any way alter the object currently being the value of the variable.
2020-07-28T05:57:35Z seok: Right
2020-07-28T05:58:30Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-28T05:58:57Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-28T06:00:02Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T06:01:32Z beach: Now, if we ever get around to creating that online lecture series about Common Lisp that we have been talking about, this question would be the subject of one of the 5 minute "nodes" that I would like to see.
2020-07-28T06:03:13Z seok: Who's working on it?
2020-07-28T06:03:22Z seok: I'll be sure to watch all of it : )
2020-07-28T06:03:52Z beach: Nobody yet, but several people "signed up".  It's a huge project though.  The CACM article that inspired me estimated the cost of such a thing in the millions of USD.
2020-07-28T06:04:02Z beach: ... if it were to be done commercially, I mean.
2020-07-28T06:05:45Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T06:07:56Z froggey joined #lisp
2020-07-28T06:08:00Z seok: How big of a volume are we looking at?
2020-07-28T06:08:55Z join_parkjam joined #lisp
2020-07-28T06:10:04Z join_parkjam left #lisp
2020-07-28T06:10:16Z join_subline joined #lisp
2020-07-28T06:12:16Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-28T06:14:41Z beach: Well, edgar-rft estimated 30 hours of work for a minute of video, so if we think that this will be a 30 hour lecture series, then you can get an estimate.
2020-07-28T06:17:45Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-28T06:21:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T06:22:22Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T06:23:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-28T06:23:24Z diamondbond quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T06:24:19Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T06:26:06Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-28T06:29:14Z edgar-rft: Well I think we should just simply try to get the first video done somehow, after that we *know* how much work it will take, and most often also howto do it *better* in the second video :-) But please expect it to need *more* than 5 minutes work.
2020-07-28T06:29:58Z beach: Well put.
2020-07-28T06:30:03Z edgar-rft: Good morning, btw :-)
2020-07-28T06:30:08Z seok: We could always make a rough one first, and version-update that topic if needed
2020-07-28T06:33:42Z phoe: good morniiiiing
2020-07-28T06:33:47Z seok: hello phoe
2020-07-28T06:35:56Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T06:38:23Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-28T06:47:41Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-28T06:58:04Z ilshad joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:00:05Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T07:03:48Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:07:25Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T07:07:59Z philweb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-28T07:16:04Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:18:31Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:19:06Z zmyrgel joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:20:59Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:22:31Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:23:16Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T07:23:20Z lxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:23:24Z lxbarbosa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T07:23:48Z lxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:23:54Z lxbarbosa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T07:24:17Z lxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:26:26Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T07:29:11Z lxbarbosa quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50))
2020-07-28T07:29:33Z lxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:29:34Z lxbarbosa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T07:29:53Z lxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:29:55Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:30:51Z lxbarbosa quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-28T07:31:13Z lxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:31:56Z cjb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-28T07:44:46Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:46:58Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-28T07:53:44Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T07:55:02Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T08:08:02Z ralt joined #lisp
2020-07-28T08:10:41Z msk quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T08:13:33Z Harag left #lisp
2020-07-28T08:17:49Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-28T08:27:53Z vaporatorius__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T08:28:03Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-28T08:28:03Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-28T08:28:03Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-28T08:41:32Z darkstar314 joined #lisp
2020-07-28T08:43:25Z darkstar314 left #lisp
2020-07-28T08:44:41Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T08:59:54Z aurelius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T09:01:07Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-28T09:04:39Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-28T09:19:52Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-28T09:20:59Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T09:21:00Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-28T09:27:12Z coltkirk: watching youtube common lisp videos
2020-07-28T09:27:34Z coltkirk: @ 2x the speed!!
2020-07-28T09:29:39Z lxbarbosa is now known as elxbarbosa
2020-07-28T09:30:23Z elxbarbosa quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50))
2020-07-28T09:30:33Z ioa: coltkirk, why in 2x the speed?
2020-07-28T09:30:56Z coltkirk: youtube people speak----so---------um-----uhh----slowly
2020-07-28T09:31:00Z elxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T09:31:22Z elxbarbosa quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-28T09:31:24Z ioa: link please :) I usually pause youtube videos to digest each sentence. XD
2020-07-28T09:31:25Z coltkirk: its insufferable at 1x
2020-07-28T09:31:45Z eta: coltkirk: I've been using 1.5x and now I can't go back
2020-07-28T09:31:49Z elxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T09:32:34Z coltkirk: https://youtu.be/DY3vI6VDOEY
2020-07-28T09:33:46Z ioa: oh ok
2020-07-28T09:34:37Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-28T09:35:37Z ioa: If I was watching that when I learned common-lisp I probably wouldn't pause it.
2020-07-28T09:36:34Z coltkirk: do you have any cool videos for learners? I like to supplement books + videos just to get a broader view
2020-07-28T09:37:03Z coltkirk: i used emacs for years and years but i decided to get with lisp about a month ago
2020-07-28T09:39:41Z ioa: I would have to look, I was lucky to have had a friend helping me  in-person to get started.
2020-07-28T09:41:50Z mokulus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T09:43:33Z ioa: coltkirk, elisp and common-lisp have a lot of things in common, I think you could watch more advanced videos than what you posted.
2020-07-28T09:44:19Z phoe: coltkirk: Baggers' series
2020-07-28T09:44:22Z phoe: Little Bits of Lisp
2020-07-28T09:49:25Z q3d joined #lisp
2020-07-28T09:57:18Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-28T10:01:00Z coltkirk: using paredit for the first time, takes some getting used to
2020-07-28T10:07:10Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-28T10:15:00Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-28T10:29:45Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-28T10:32:11Z ilshad quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T10:34:33Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T10:38:24Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T10:41:54Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-28T10:42:15Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-28T10:42:31Z aurelius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T10:43:47Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T10:44:15Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-28T10:44:55Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-28T10:46:27Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T10:49:16Z aurelius joined #lisp
2020-07-28T10:56:58Z ilshad joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:02:08Z ilshad quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T11:03:47Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T11:05:18Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:07:05Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T11:08:06Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-28T11:14:22Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-28T11:17:10Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:17:43Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:21:19Z q3d quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-28T11:24:14Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:26:10Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:28:46Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T11:30:54Z coltkirk: whew yea baggers knows what he's talking about, good videos
2020-07-28T11:36:59Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:38:20Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T11:38:43Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:41:24Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T11:43:40Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T11:44:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:44:49Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:50:25Z nmg_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:50:40Z nmg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T11:51:07Z elxbarbosa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T11:53:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T11:54:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:55:17Z v3ga joined #lisp
2020-07-28T11:55:59Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:01:48Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T12:02:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:06:25Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T12:07:14Z minerjoe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T12:10:25Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:11:24Z vornth joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:13:30Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:16:45Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:19:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T12:19:50Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:27:07Z luna_is_here_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:27:52Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T12:29:21Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:36:20Z vornth quit
2020-07-28T12:55:04Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T12:55:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:57:51Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-28T12:59:18Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T12:59:18Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-28T13:00:38Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:01:25Z lukego: coltkirk: man I really want to get into paredit but haven't been able to take the initial hit yet. just discovered Redshank and need to learn that now too.
2020-07-28T13:04:44Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:05:47Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:07:34Z Xach: paredit solved way more problems than it caused for me, so it didn't take me long to get used to it.
2020-07-28T13:08:17Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T13:09:11Z scymtym: Xach: i made good progress with CFF support and the type 2 interpreter. would such things be in scope of zpb-ttf or should they go into a separate project?
2020-07-28T13:09:47Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:10:58Z Xach: scymtym: i suspect a separate project - maybe a third, overarching project could unify a font interface, but i think zpb-ttf is very specific to the data/format truetype presents
2020-07-28T13:11:01Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-28T13:11:21Z Xach: something to support full OTF perhaps
2020-07-28T13:13:15Z scymtym: Xach: i see, thanks. i will start by making a project for cff and the type 2 interpreter. those are somewhat self-contained and should be useful in any case
2020-07-28T13:14:36Z jackdaniel: when fonts were bitmaps of fixed size life was much simpler
2020-07-28T13:15:18Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T13:15:20Z scymtym: less fun though. cff and the type 2 interpreter are like advent of code on steroids :)
2020-07-28T13:18:11Z jackdaniel: and even if you do a very decent job with kerning and stuff, there is always few people who are not satisfied because typography is oh-so-much that it can't be clearly defined
2020-07-28T13:18:52Z jackdaniel: i.e shaping: - how fonts shoudl be shaped? - beats me, whatever harfbuzz does is correct! ,)
2020-07-28T13:19:00Z jackdaniel: s/shoudl/should/
2020-07-28T13:21:37Z diamondbond quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T13:23:57Z aurelius quit
2020-07-28T13:28:27Z jackdani1l joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:28:42Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T13:29:40Z jackdaniel quit (Disconnected by services)
2020-07-28T13:29:47Z jackdani1l is now known as jackdaniel
2020-07-28T13:30:28Z Inline joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:30:38Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:31:12Z TMA: typography is akin to the axiom of choice -- it is quite simple to define it clearly (good typography is aesthetically pleasing to persons skilled in the trade, while being not irksome to the laypersons), however it is nigh impossible to define it concisely and constructively
2020-07-28T13:32:08Z jackdaniel: fact that some people tend to it religiously doesn't help either
2020-07-28T13:32:17Z TMA: which in turn suggests the method for implementation -- put some deep neural networks to work and capture the intuition there
2020-07-28T13:33:09Z jackdaniel: i.e: this font (which looks basically like any other font over there), is "refreshing" or whatever bs.  but I've started offtopic, sorry about that :)
2020-07-28T13:33:34Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:36:43Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T13:37:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:37:52Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T13:38:46Z TMA: which brings another question: is there an established ANN framework for CL?
2020-07-28T13:39:17Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T13:39:45Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:40:38Z Fare: can you guys login to gitlab.common-lisp.net ?
2020-07-28T13:40:52Z Fare: It looks like they tried to update it recently, and I can't login anymore
2020-07-28T13:41:22Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T13:41:29Z phoe: Fare: what's the issue?
2020-07-28T13:41:57Z phoe: I had something with an unexpected HTTP 404 being thrown my way, and I had to re-click the "validate my email" link to make it work.
2020-07-28T13:45:27Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:46:11Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:47:44Z toorevitimirp quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-28T13:48:04Z ralt: phoe: it's a known bug with gitlab... wait for the page to be fully loaded before clicking on the SSO buttons.
2020-07-28T13:48:27Z phoe: ralt: I already managed to log in, poke Fare if anything.
2020-07-28T13:48:47Z ralt: I was talking about the unexpected 404
2020-07-28T13:51:45Z phoe: oh, okay
2020-07-28T13:52:30Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T13:52:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:53:22Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-28T13:53:33Z RedMallet quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-28T13:54:20Z zmyrgel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T13:55:37Z ralt: Gitlab is very good with progressive enhancement. When the JavaScript hasn't finished loading, the SSO buttons will do a GET. But the backend only supports POST. So you get a 404 if you click too fast.
2020-07-28T13:55:38Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T13:58:36Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T14:02:33Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T14:02:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T14:03:31Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:04:21Z shangul: ralt, lol
2020-07-28T14:05:46Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:07:14Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:10:06Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T14:10:17Z Fare: phoe: I can't push code with ssh, and can't login on the web interface
2020-07-28T14:10:47Z Fare: using git with ssh, it tells me "remote: Your account has been blocked."
2020-07-28T14:11:35Z lucasb joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:12:38Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:12:56Z phoe: #common-lisp.net should be able to help
2020-07-28T14:13:50Z terpri_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T14:14:14Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:14:23Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T14:15:36Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-28T14:16:45Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:17:41Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:18:28Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T14:18:55Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:22:59Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:28:46Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:28:56Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:30:17Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T14:30:36Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:33:24Z gxt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T14:40:29Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:41:48Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:42:28Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:44:22Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:46:11Z Inline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T14:46:12Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-28T14:46:14Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T14:46:27Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:46:32Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-28T14:47:44Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T14:50:12Z minerjoe joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:00:35Z sjl_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3-dev)
2020-07-28T15:00:53Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:03:50Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T15:10:07Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:11:51Z jonatack quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T15:13:27Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:13:35Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:13:35Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:15:03Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:18:20Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-28T15:18:37Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:19:25Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:20:46Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:21:34Z sympt joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:23:25Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T15:37:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T15:38:03Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:38:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:40:18Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T15:40:18Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-28T15:41:14Z refpga quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T15:47:59Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:51:32Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T15:53:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T15:54:20Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T15:59:29Z pve_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T16:00:12Z terpri_ is now known as terpri
2020-07-28T16:02:46Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T16:06:23Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-28T16:09:53Z rogersm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T16:12:08Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T16:18:24Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T16:23:23Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T16:30:02Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T16:31:47Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-28T16:34:19Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-28T16:34:29Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-28T16:34:30Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-28T16:37:59Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-28T16:38:06Z epony quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T16:47:09Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-28T16:47:54Z toorevitimirp quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-28T16:50:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T16:51:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T16:53:21Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-28T16:55:36Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-28T16:59:31Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T17:04:58Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T17:05:07Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T17:13:36Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:13:36Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-28T17:13:36Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:14:39Z lukego: Just running around in my head... I think if you wanted to do CLIM like presentations in Emacs you'd use Vecto. Each discrete object would be rendered separately to create a mask for (X,Y) positions where it can be clicked (imagemap) and then the composite image would be displayed inline by Emacs.
2020-07-28T17:15:17Z lukego: Emacs has SVG support built-in but that's actually just converting to a bitmap as the first step so no real upside to letting Emacs do the rasterization
2020-07-28T17:18:26Z lukego: Emacs doesn't seem to have mouse-over events so that would have to be added
2020-07-28T17:18:34Z lukego: (it does have mouse click events on images though)
2020-07-28T17:20:11Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T17:22:16Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:24:32Z shangul quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T17:24:45Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T17:26:03Z epony joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:26:41Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:27:03Z rogersm_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T17:31:30Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:33:05Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:33:40Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:38:34Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T17:39:11Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:47:58Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:48:31Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T17:52:17Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:53:49Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-28T17:54:15Z yonkunas_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T17:56:11Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T17:57:11Z yonkunas_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-28T17:57:53Z yonkunas joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:00:40Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:02:47Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:03:57Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T18:16:22Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T18:18:23Z Ven`` joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:20:04Z solrize_ quit (Changing host)
2020-07-28T18:20:04Z solrize_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:20:44Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T18:22:37Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-28T18:26:31Z markasoftware: I noticed a library on Github that "added" a superclass to all instances of a metaclass by specializing `compute-class-precedence-list` as `(cons the-extra-superclass (call-next-method))`
2020-07-28T18:27:07Z markasoftware: Is this the right way? I thought compute-class-precedence-list was just supposed to sort the superclasses.
2020-07-28T18:32:59Z philadendrite quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T18:33:55Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:33:55Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-28T18:33:55Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:35:25Z markong joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:36:16Z gabiruh quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-28T18:36:40Z gabiruh joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:38:14Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:38:58Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:41:03Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-28T18:41:37Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T18:41:38Z Bike: "All methods on this generic function must compute the class precedence list as a function of the ordered direct superclasses of the superclasses of class. The results are undefined if the rules used to compute the class precedence list depend on any other factors. "
2020-07-28T18:41:46Z Bike: I guess that could be read either way, though
2020-07-28T18:42:28Z fwoaroof[m]: (defun (l) (cons 'foo l)) is a function of l
2020-07-28T18:42:53Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T18:44:38Z Bike: that particular definition sounds wrong cos the next method will have the class itself as the first element, though, i think
2020-07-28T18:48:30Z markasoftware: well, the-extra-superclass is not a direct or indirect superclass -- it is arbitrarily added by the compute-class-precedence-list. I'm quite sure this author is going against the spec
2020-07-28T18:48:55Z markasoftware: where did you get that quote by the way, Bike?
2020-07-28T18:49:02Z Bike: mop page on compute-c-p-l
2020-07-28T18:49:44Z fwoaroof[m]: Doesn't MOP have an example of forcing a superclass?
2020-07-28T18:50:28Z fwoaroof[m]: e.g. when it talks about standard-object being the superclass of every class of type standard-class or something like that?
2020-07-28T18:53:19Z Bike: if it does i don't remember
2020-07-28T18:54:56Z sjl_: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d27b/cef510de240a4dbf427a1e2174b9965c1c7d.pdf
2020-07-28T18:55:14Z sjl_: page 19, they do it in initialize-instance :around on the class
2020-07-28T18:55:29Z sjl_: (search for "sneak" to find the relevant paragraph)
2020-07-28T18:55:39Z fwoaroof[m]: sbcl's standard-class has thi in DEFAULT-INITARGS:  :direct-superclasses (list the-class-standard-object)))
2020-07-28T18:56:31Z fwoaroof[m]: It's basically the same as what sjl_ describes, without the extra DEFMETHOD
2020-07-28T18:56:46Z sjl_: This paper goes to extra pains to not include the special class in the superclass list if a superclass already does, but I'm not sure why.  Just general cleanliness?
2020-07-28T18:57:06Z fwoaroof[m]: I wonder if there's precedence issues too?
2020-07-28T18:57:39Z fwoaroof[m]: if STANDARD-OBJECT is a direct superclass of every class, it'd probably make DEFMETHODS behave unexpectedly in some edge cases
2020-07-28T18:58:42Z sjl_: I'm not sure about standard-object, but in the example they're adding a different class they've defined... I don't think it would really make a difference one way or the other in their example.
2020-07-28T18:58:57Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-28T18:59:06Z fwoaroof[m]: I'm thinking of diamond-inheritance like issues
2020-07-28T19:00:00Z fwoaroof[m]: I forget the class precedence rules, but in (defclass a (foo)) (defclass b (a)), you might run into issues if they both have C as an implicit direct superclass
2020-07-28T19:00:30Z fwoaroof[m]: because you probably want a DEFMETHOD to prefer a method on A to one on C when called with an instance of B
2020-07-28T19:00:58Z sjl_: Maybe that's what they're worried about.  I haven't though it through all the way (and can't at the moment).  Would be interesting to have a concrete example where it would cause an obvious problem.
2020-07-28T19:01:41Z markasoftware: this is the library in question https://github.com/gschjetne/json-mop
2020-07-28T19:02:11Z markasoftware: they are making a json serialization metaclass, and they want a method that is only applicable to objects from classes that are json-serializable
2020-07-28T19:03:09Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:04:05Z markasoftware: also fwoaroof[m], I do see the default-initargs :direct-superclasses on standard-class now that I look at it, but SBCL additionally checks this in shared-initialize
2020-07-28T19:04:41Z markasoftware: there's what amounts to a (when (null direct-superclasses) (setf direct-superclasses (list the-class-standard-object))
2020-07-28T19:06:27Z gareppa joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:06:47Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:10:03Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:11:37Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T19:22:12Z gareppa quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T19:31:06Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T19:31:10Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T19:31:32Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T19:39:13Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:40:55Z lucasb quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-28T19:44:54Z vaporatorius__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T19:45:04Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:45:04Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-28T19:45:04Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:45:50Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:47:48Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:47:48Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-28T19:47:48Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:49:13Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-28T19:54:14Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T19:59:57Z rogersm quit
2020-07-28T20:03:00Z philadendrite joined #lisp
2020-07-28T20:05:03Z liamz[m] quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T20:05:05Z userself quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T20:05:52Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T20:06:08Z liamz[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-28T20:13:15Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-28T20:16:41Z izh_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T20:18:19Z userself joined #lisp
2020-07-28T20:21:20Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-28T20:31:35Z random-nick quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-28T20:32:45Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-28T20:33:10Z Ven`` quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-28T20:37:29Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-28T20:38:53Z nullheroes quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-28T20:38:55Z grewal quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-28T20:42:21Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-28T20:45:55Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-28T20:46:57Z izh_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T20:54:26Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-28T20:57:37Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-28T20:58:47Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:03:32Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:06:12Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:06:14Z lottaquestions_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:06:43Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-28T21:07:30Z lottaquestions quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:08:17Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:08:26Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:09:42Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T21:13:15Z lottaquestions_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T21:13:30Z random-nick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T21:13:41Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:15:23Z gioyik quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-28T21:15:57Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-28T21:17:07Z gioyik joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:17:23Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:18:10Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:18:21Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:18:27Z gdsg joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:20:02Z ahungry quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:25:38Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:27:57Z seok: Would it be a bad design to define a lot of similar classes, say 4000 of them? how big of an overhead would that be?
2020-07-28T21:28:21Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:28:22Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-28T21:28:22Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:30:33Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:31:22Z Xach: seok: not inherently bad, but that number would require some pretty decent justification and abstraction.
2020-07-28T21:32:35Z seok: Let's say one is making a game, and there are 2000 different kinds of units
2020-07-28T21:32:54Z seok: Of course that could be done with only one class definition for unit
2020-07-28T21:33:19Z seok: But would it be a bad idea to make a prototype for each of those units with (defclass name (unit)) ?
2020-07-28T21:34:53Z seok: In the former case the blueprints for each of those unit would have to be stored somewhere anyway, so how bad is it to store them as class definitions?
2020-07-28T21:35:16Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:39:32Z tychoish: I tend to think of classes as "kind of thing" and then have instances for "the collection of things," and have all of the different kinds of things be parameters/slots on the class
2020-07-28T21:40:04Z phoe: seok: as long as they're properly structured, I'm game for it
2020-07-28T21:40:09Z tychoish: heyo
2020-07-28T21:40:22Z phoe: that's the way I'd do it myself (and the way I am doing it at the moment)
2020-07-28T21:40:27Z mfiano: It's a bad idea to use inheritance over composition for game development anyway.
2020-07-28T21:40:37Z seok: phoe cool, thx
2020-07-28T21:40:48Z seok: mfiano what do you mean?
2020-07-28T21:41:25Z tychoish: I heard a trick, I think from like Ward Cunningham or something, where you give yourself three index cards and attempt to model the objects in whatever problem you're working out in terms of the three cards, and it's a bit extreme, but broadly, it's how I model things, I think
2020-07-28T21:41:38Z phoe: mfiano: ha! I use both
2020-07-28T21:43:03Z mfiano: Inheritance trees quickly turn into graphs in any sophisticated game design, not to mention it is not great for the CPU cache, and after all game development is all about efficient data transmission.
2020-07-28T21:44:37Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:44:40Z seok: So you'd mach rather a method which makes instances of one definition of class rather than few thousand of them?
2020-07-28T21:44:43Z equwal quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-28T21:44:55Z mfiano: With inheritance, you keep pushing slots up to the root until you have a "god object" that everything inherits from.
2020-07-28T21:45:05Z mfiano: It's very bad design :)
2020-07-28T21:45:22Z seok: But in this case, it is a wide rather than a tall inheritance
2020-07-28T21:45:33Z aeth: of course, games aren't held up for examples of good software design
2020-07-28T21:45:40Z tychoish: seok: it really depends on the use case. I tend to be "small numbers of classes" and "composition over inheritance" but also i don't write games
2020-07-28T21:45:42Z seok: aeth true that xD
2020-07-28T21:45:57Z aeth: Unless they're multiplayer and the code is shared with server code, the processes tend to be short-lived
2020-07-28T21:45:58Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:46:06Z seok: When are we ever going to get efficient version of Unity written in lisp?
2020-07-28T21:46:28Z phoe: possibly never
2020-07-28T21:46:48Z mfiano: We already have that, to some degree. Virality Engine has been in active development for 4 years and behaves very similarly to Unity or Unreal already, sans the GUI.
2020-07-28T21:47:05Z aeth: GUI-oriented game engines don't really fit the same niche that Common Lispers are in, so it's doubtful that a CL game engine's editor would use similar principles
2020-07-28T21:47:29Z seok: mfiano this one? https://github.com/MarcelSchaible/ViralityEngine
2020-07-28T21:48:01Z mfiano: No, that's a fork.
2020-07-28T21:48:10Z seok: https://github.com/bufferswap/ViralityEngine this one?
2020-07-28T21:48:33Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:48:42Z mfiano: Yes, it's developed by a few of us in #bufferswap
2020-07-28T21:49:05Z equwal joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:49:05Z seok: Nice Great to find a game engine written lisp
2020-07-28T21:49:10Z aeth: There are quite a few
2020-07-28T21:49:15Z seok: How does it do with graphics?
2020-07-28T21:49:29Z mfiano: Define "graphics"
2020-07-28T21:50:00Z seok: I don't know, is it easy to draw pictures with this?
2020-07-28T21:50:01Z seok: xD
2020-07-28T21:50:18Z aeth: Other engines include https://github.com/borodust/cl-bodge https://github.com/vydd/sketch/ https://github.com/cbaggers/cepl https://gitlab.com/dto/xelf https://github.com/Shirakumo/trial https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zombie-raptor
2020-07-28T21:50:40Z aeth: There's a fairly active community over at #lispgames but it hasn't really been active this month. The summer? Corona? Who knows
2020-07-28T21:50:56Z aeth: A few other engines haven't been active in a while, e.g. https://github.com/BradWBeer/CLinch
2020-07-28T21:51:22Z mfiano: drawing pictures is done by constructing geometry, filling buffers, applying some linear algebra, and writing shaders. Same as any other modern game engine :)
2020-07-28T21:51:24Z seok38 joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:51:42Z seok38: I would imagine Covid would help people stay home and develop
2020-07-28T21:51:57Z aeth: but if people are developing, they're not on IRC
2020-07-28T21:52:09Z seok38: Ah
2020-07-28T21:52:15Z aeth: I think a lot of people were on IRC in the background while at work, and that's suffered a bit in 2020
2020-07-28T21:52:51Z seok38: Could you give me the list of lisp game engines again please?
2020-07-28T21:52:57Z seok38: I've disconnected and lost the chat
2020-07-28T21:53:07Z equwal quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-28T21:53:12Z phoe: https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp
2020-07-28T21:53:24Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-28T21:53:25Z seok38: ty!
2020-07-28T21:53:28Z mfiano: Virality Engine is in the process of a huge overhaul. We had to develop a custom CPU emulator to support the component ordering in an atomic fashion. We're almost done writing that CPU, after nearly a year and a half. That is the reason for the lack of commits, but we are working on it live on stream every week.
2020-07-28T21:53:39Z aeth: https://github.com/bufferswap/ViralityEngine https://github.com/borodust/cl-bodge https://github.com/borodust/trivial-gamekit https://github.com/vydd/sketch/ https://github.com/cbaggers/cepl https://gitlab.com/dto/xelf https://github.com/Shirakumo/trial https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zombie-raptor https://github.com/BradWBeer/CLinch
2020-07-28T21:53:49Z aeth: ^ On one line, and including trivial-gamekit which is sort of a part of bodge
2020-07-28T21:54:14Z seok quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:54:26Z aeth: There are lists e.g. on the Lisp games wiki, but they're out of date and incomplete, e.g. still calling Virality "First Light". https://github.com/lispgames/lispgames.github.io/wiki/Common-Lisp
2020-07-28T21:56:35Z aeth: My engine is Zombie Raptor (2013), which might be the second oldest after dto's xelf (2007???), but progress is glacial because it focuses on high-performance, which has involved... quite a lot of from-scratch work, e.g. my own utility library.
2020-07-28T21:57:28Z aeth: Quite a lot has spun out of that project over the years, including an entire R7RS-small implementation in Common Lisp that's almost ready. I'm trying to complete it before the end of 2020, which is why I've been neglecting my engine this year.
2020-07-28T21:57:40Z seok38: So it looks like there are a lot of small groups each working on different game engines
2020-07-28T21:57:45Z mfiano: Virality Engine is the concatenation and reorganization of code back to 2008 from 3 developers.
2020-07-28T21:58:06Z seok38: Do each of these game engines serve a different niche? Or is there a chance for one big general game engine?
2020-07-28T21:58:32Z mfiano: Most of those are not game engines.
2020-07-28T21:58:55Z seok38: Yeah I see sketch, which looks like a gui / graphics library?
2020-07-28T21:59:09Z aeth: CEPL is more of a thing focused on live-coding than a proper engine, Virality is focused on proper architecture, cl-bodge is more about wrapping foreign libraries than most Lispers are comfortable with, and Zombie Raptor is designed around unnecessarily-high performance requirements just to prove that it's possible
2020-07-28T21:59:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T21:59:24Z aeth: sketch is just the graphics, but some games (or attempts at least) have used it
2020-07-28T21:59:30Z aeth: Idk what trial's thing is.
2020-07-28T21:59:39Z mfiano: sketch doesn't have any concepts found in a game engine. bodge is a collection of bindings so more of a framework, etc.
2020-07-28T21:59:41Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:00:07Z aeth: You could argue that every Common Lisp game engine is actually a game framework since these days, "game engine" often implies that there's an editor
2020-07-28T22:00:17Z aeth: (Unless Virality has an editor now)
2020-07-28T22:00:20Z mfiano: A game engine contains collision detection, draw order, prefabs, and other concepts needed for game development.
2020-07-28T22:00:27Z seok38: editor, as in a GUI editor?
2020-07-28T22:00:59Z mfiano: That said, a game engine is nothing more than a set of choices someone made for you, so it is possible a game engine unless very general purpose and developed by hundreds of people, is not the right choice for your game
2020-07-28T22:03:13Z nckx quit (Quit: Updating my Guix System — https://guix.gnu.org)
2020-07-28T22:03:25Z seok38: Indeed
2020-07-28T22:03:51Z mfiano: Virality Engine's running game is its editor for the most part. It's just that, everything (about a couple dozen DSLs) is live recompilable, so instead of using that mouse thing, you just redefine a prefab and anything composed from it is updated on the spot, or a texture definition, or a component, or game logic, etc
2020-07-28T22:04:17Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T22:04:48Z seok38: mfiano, I've got some game engine specific questions, mind if we move to #lispgames?
2020-07-28T22:05:18Z nckx joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:05:22Z mfiano: It also has a custom shader language so GPU functions and their dependencies are also update-able online.
2020-07-28T22:05:48Z mfiano: You can ask in #lispgames or #bufferswap and someone may answer
2020-07-28T22:05:57Z mfiano: I can't say I will have all your answers
2020-07-28T22:06:30Z mfiano: I mostly only pay attention to #bufferswap, as its where all my energy is emitted :)
2020-07-28T22:06:38Z mfiano: But I'll make an effort to help wherever
2020-07-28T22:07:05Z aeth: And as for "why doesn't everyone just work on one engine", this highlights why people have different design priorities. For instance, my engine's basic design philosophy is, essentially, "Do everything at compile time if possible."
2020-07-28T22:07:18Z aeth: I'll insert some live coding features where possible at some later date, but I mostly focus on elaborate macros.
2020-07-28T22:08:02Z lottaquestions_ joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:08:10Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T22:08:31Z aeth: While, again, bodge is mostly about wrapping quite a few foreign libraries.
2020-07-28T22:08:44Z aeth: (An impressively high number.)
2020-07-28T22:08:50Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:12:43Z ayuce quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50))
2020-07-28T22:20:15Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:21:22Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-28T22:22:06Z frgo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T22:22:42Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:25:35Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T22:26:08Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T22:33:29Z diamondbond quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T22:35:55Z Josh_2` joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:36:14Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T22:47:08Z Josh_2`` joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:47:49Z equwal joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:48:08Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-28T22:48:25Z Josh_2` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T22:49:47Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-28T22:51:32Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T22:54:59Z equwal quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-28T22:55:41Z equwal joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:59:02Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-28T22:59:21Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-28T23:02:13Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-28T23:10:04Z bocaneri is now known as Sauvin
2020-07-28T23:11:52Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-28T23:14:22Z pve_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-28T23:15:47Z equwal quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-28T23:17:37Z gdsg quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-28T23:19:42Z equwal joined #lisp
2020-07-28T23:26:16Z equwal quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-28T23:28:29Z equwal joined #lisp
2020-07-28T23:29:08Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-28T23:30:50Z grewal joined #lisp
2020-07-28T23:32:14Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T23:34:18Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-28T23:35:30Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-28T23:36:41Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-28T23:37:25Z satousan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-28T23:42:49Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-28T23:52:12Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-28T23:54:30Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T23:59:49Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-28T23:59:51Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T00:07:22Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T00:08:00Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T00:10:35Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T00:13:12Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-29T00:18:38Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-29T00:30:13Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-29T00:37:30Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T00:45:45Z borei joined #lisp
2020-07-29T00:46:40Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2020-07-29T00:48:56Z elderK quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-29T00:49:07Z stux|RC-- joined #lisp
2020-07-29T00:49:44Z stux|RC quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T00:49:44Z Ekho quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T00:51:57Z Ekho- joined #lisp
2020-07-29T00:52:09Z Ekho- is now known as Ekho
2020-07-29T00:54:21Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-29T00:54:35Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T00:57:14Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-29T00:57:54Z userself quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:54Z fwoaroof[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:54Z cairn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z physpi quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z mgsk quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z saturn2 quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z terrorjack quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z drmeister quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z billstclair quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z parisienne___ quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z chewbranca quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z fowlduck quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z gendl quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z yang quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z cross quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z banjiewen quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z selwyn quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T00:57:55Z shymega quit (*.net *.split)
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z userself joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z fwoaroof[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z physpi joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z saturn2 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z mgsk joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z johs joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z drmeister joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z billstclair joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z parisienne___ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z chewbranca joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z fowlduck joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z gendl joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z ski joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z yang joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z asedeno joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z cross joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z selwyn joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:01:52Z shymega joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:02:24Z yang quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-07-29T01:03:02Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:03:04Z yang joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:03:27Z liamz[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T01:03:32Z kelamir[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T01:03:37Z katco quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T01:03:37Z deselby quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T01:03:39Z camlriot42 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T01:03:41Z cairn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T01:03:41Z fwoaroof[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T01:03:41Z userself quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T01:03:42Z gaqwas[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T01:03:43Z infra_red[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T01:03:43Z kinope quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T01:03:45Z sammich quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T01:03:45Z even4void[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T01:03:46Z unl0ckd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T01:03:47Z Gnuxie[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T01:03:47Z MrtnDk[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T01:03:47Z LdBeth quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T01:03:47Z fountainpen[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T01:04:49Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T01:04:54Z terrorjack quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T01:06:13Z natter quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-29T01:06:39Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:06:58Z cross quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T01:07:59Z cross joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:10:09Z terrorjack joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:10:34Z Gnuxie[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:12:47Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:21:18Z coltkirk: im watching the little bits of lisp now and, taking really close notes
2020-07-29T01:24:10Z ralt quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-29T01:30:06Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T01:31:00Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:33:00Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T01:35:26Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:35:26Z stux|RC-- quit (Quit: Aloha!)
2020-07-29T01:36:15Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:50Z sammich joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z even4void[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z infra_red[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z userself joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z kelamir[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z kinope joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z camlriot42 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z gaqwas[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z fwoaroof[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z katco joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z MrtnDk[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z unl0ckd joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:51Z LdBeth joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:57Z fountainpen[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:57Z deselby joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:39:58Z liamz[m] joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:57:56Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T01:58:40Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T01:59:53Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-29T02:01:50Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T02:02:07Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-29T02:02:10Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T02:02:35Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-29T02:03:04Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-29T02:20:48Z Alfr_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-29T02:32:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T02:32:46Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T02:37:43Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T02:38:21Z shangul quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T02:39:14Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-29T02:41:29Z jgodbou joined #lisp
2020-07-29T02:43:51Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T02:46:19Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T02:47:11Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-29T02:54:00Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T02:55:57Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-29T02:59:10Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-29T03:06:54Z Bike quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-29T03:07:18Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-29T03:11:38Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T03:13:25Z Alfr joined #lisp
2020-07-29T03:16:30Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-29T03:17:35Z coltkirk: i really like Baggers, I can tell he's well spoken and passionate about lisp
2020-07-29T03:20:28Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-29T03:28:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-29T03:28:32Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T03:32:12Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-29T03:35:35Z fwoaroof[m]: good morning, beach
2020-07-29T03:35:47Z borei: hi beach
2020-07-29T03:37:11Z borei: question - should i expect that function performance generated by macro will be the same like performance of the function created in normal way ?
2020-07-29T03:37:39Z fwoaroof[m]: borei: a macro just transforms the input source code to a different shape
2020-07-29T03:37:57Z fwoaroof[m]: There's no difference between typing out the result of macroexpansion and using a macro
2020-07-29T03:38:03Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T03:38:10Z fwoaroof[m]: (performance-wise, at least)
2020-07-29T03:38:58Z borei: i was thinking the same, but macro generated function is 40% slower then standard one
2020-07-29T03:39:40Z borei: oh, one thing - generated by macro is actually closure
2020-07-29T03:40:04Z beach: If it is not the same code, performance can obviously be different.
2020-07-29T03:40:12Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T03:40:16Z beach: But it has nothing to do with the macro.
2020-07-29T03:41:14Z borei: my first suspect is that macro generated function is accessing to variable defined in the "let"
2020-07-29T03:42:15Z borei: https://pastebin.com/Ash9R9ra - if somebody has time
2020-07-29T03:43:01Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T03:43:02Z borei: big concerns about "nodes" which are coming from the "let"
2020-07-29T03:43:54Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-29T03:44:19Z borei: overall im pretty happy about performance, just 2 times slower then C version
2020-07-29T03:46:12Z beach: I think you need to study the generated code to know what makes the difference.
2020-07-29T03:46:24Z fwoaroof[m]: Why not just have nodes be an argument to the function generated by the macro?
2020-07-29T03:47:10Z borei: nodes are pretty static and can be stored in let
2020-07-29T03:47:35Z borei: so no needs to worry about them in the top level code
2020-07-29T03:54:05Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T03:56:02Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:00:10Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T04:03:35Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T04:15:10Z aeth: when a DEFUN is under a LET instead of a PROGN (or nothing), then it no longer counts as top-level, so it can actually be slower
2020-07-29T04:15:29Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-29T04:15:55Z fwoaroof[m]: Yeah, that's one thing I suspected
2020-07-29T04:16:12Z aeth: There are a handful of other top-level forms, most notably eval-when: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_bca.htm
2020-07-29T04:16:16Z fwoaroof[m]: Is it also possible that accessing the closed over state affects performance?
2020-07-29T04:16:53Z fwoaroof[m]: (I know non-local variable access can have a significant performance impact in python)
2020-07-29T04:17:59Z beach: Accessing closed-over variables can be slower.  It depends on the compiler and how those variables are used.
2020-07-29T04:18:46Z fwoaroof[m]: I suspected that: in python, it's something like local variables are looked up by indexing into an array, global variables are looked up in a hash-map
2020-07-29T04:19:10Z fwoaroof[m]: I assume a good CL compiler is a bit smarter than this, though
2020-07-29T04:19:51Z aeth: Well, it's more complicated in CL because only dynamic/special variables or constants are portably global, although other globals might exist.
2020-07-29T04:20:34Z beach: fwoaroof[m]: But a closed-over variable is not global.
2020-07-29T04:23:13Z beach: For special variables, you can have deep binding or shallow binding.  With shallow binding, and if your implementation uses threads, each variable has a current-value slot, probably in the reified thread object.  With deep binding, you have to search the dynamic environment for the latest binding.
2020-07-29T04:23:27Z beach: But the closed-over variable is not special either.
2020-07-29T04:24:21Z beach: The global value of a special variable (which is shared among all threads) a typical implementation has a slot in the symbol for it.
2020-07-29T04:24:42Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:24:49Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-29T04:26:11Z fwoaroof[m]: Sorry, I meant "non-local" variables
2020-07-29T04:27:21Z beach: A closed-over variable becomes part of the static environment of the function.  And the static environment is passed as an implicit argument to the function.  In the worst case, the value would then be kept inside a "cell" in the static environment.  So you have two memory accesses to reach it, whereas an argument may be passed in a register.
2020-07-29T04:27:49Z beach: But if the closed-over variable is not assigned to after creation, the cell can be avoided.
2020-07-29T04:28:29Z beach: And the compiler can pass the static environment in different ways to avoid some overhead.
2020-07-29T04:31:03Z beach: Does that make sense?
2020-07-29T04:31:40Z fwoaroof[m]: yeah
2020-07-29T04:32:18Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T04:32:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:32:43Z borei: my brain is about to explode
2020-07-29T04:32:48Z fwoaroof[m]: A read-only variable in the static environment could also be inlined, right?
2020-07-29T04:33:18Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T04:34:03Z beach: That's not enough of a criterion.
2020-07-29T04:34:33Z beach: Imagine (defun f (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y)))
2020-07-29T04:35:05Z beach: Here, you can have a different x for each closure created by a call to f.
2020-07-29T04:35:23Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T04:35:30Z beach: So even though x is read-only, it is not the same each time in the anonymous function.
2020-07-29T04:35:36Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:35:51Z beach: Therefore, it has to be looked up in the static environment.
2020-07-29T04:36:27Z beach: Once it has been accessed there, it can be put in a register of course, if that is what you mean.
2020-07-29T04:36:27Z fwoaroof[m]: I see
2020-07-29T04:37:18Z fwoaroof[m]: I don't think I was thinking clearly enough: I was thinking that, in some cases you could transform the inner lambda to something like (lambda (y) (+ 1 y))
2020-07-29T04:37:59Z beach: That would be possible only if you have something like (let ((x 1)) (lambda (y) (+ x y)))
2020-07-29T04:38:06Z beach: But that would be a very unusual situation.
2020-07-29T04:38:27Z fwoaroof[m]: Yeah, you'd have to do it after calling f
2020-07-29T04:39:02Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:39:11Z beach: borei: Why?
2020-07-29T04:41:30Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:41:40Z borei: don't know, looks like im missing something very fundamental, and without it i can build full picture
2020-07-29T04:42:10Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T04:42:37Z borei: im looking at the macroexpand now - main and biggest difference is how function is accessing "nodes" array
2020-07-29T04:43:04Z borei: in first case - it's just function parameter (should be just pointer)
2020-07-29T04:43:56Z borei: in second case  - it's not parameter, and it's not local for the function var, so it need to looked up at higher level. higher level is "let"
2020-07-29T04:44:16Z beach: Yes, the static environment like I said.
2020-07-29T04:44:29Z borei: and based on the timing that lookup is very expensive
2020-07-29T04:44:38Z beach: Yes, like I said.
2020-07-29T04:46:04Z borei: is there an option to make that nodes variable "like local" for the function defined in macro ?
2020-07-29T04:47:13Z borei: hmm, but that is not option in terms of performance because i need to call "let" every time
2020-07-29T04:47:35Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T04:47:56Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:50:34Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T04:50:46Z cosimone_ is now known as cosimone
2020-07-29T04:50:48Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:50:49Z borei: that is pretty cool things - whisper of the waves
2020-07-29T04:51:18Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:51:31Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:51:59Z fwoaroof[m]: borei: maybe try putting the let inside the defun?
2020-07-29T04:52:41Z fwoaroof[m]: It's not equivalent in every case, but I think it will work for your code.
2020-07-29T04:53:29Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T04:53:47Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:54:03Z borei: correct me if im wrong - let creates lexical scope - is it correct ?
2020-07-29T04:54:24Z fwoaroof[m]: Yes
2020-07-29T04:54:34Z fwoaroof[m]: Well, sort of: it binds variables
2020-07-29T04:54:50Z fwoaroof[m]: Whether or not the binding is a lexical binding depends on whether the variable has been declared special
2020-07-29T04:55:26Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:56:40Z borei: so with every call it will be creating lexical scope, then destroy it. i did try it yesterday. maybe was using it wrong, but result was even wors
2020-07-29T04:57:48Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T04:58:03Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T04:58:13Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:00:11Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T05:00:49Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-29T05:01:00Z fwoaroof[m]: Cool, I guess you have to decide whether the performance is worth the cost of passing an extra argument around
2020-07-29T05:01:40Z fwoaroof[m]: I'm not an expert at optimizing CL, though: there maybe some way of putting a LET inside the DEFUN and then declaring nodes DYNAMIC-EXTENT to get some more speed
2020-07-29T05:01:54Z fwoaroof[m]: However, I don't really understand that declaration :)
2020-07-29T05:02:01Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:02:37Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T05:03:00Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:04:01Z borei: actually discussion was pretty useful for me, now i understand why im getting a bit better performance introducing one more function - it allows to reduce number of lookups to static environment.
2020-07-29T05:04:19Z beach: If some object is not passed as an argument, it has to be stored somewhere in the function object, or in a place that is accessible to the code of the function.  That access requires a memory access.  I don't see how you can get around this.
2020-07-29T05:04:50Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T05:05:12Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:05:31Z borei: i had some illusion about lexical scope.
2020-07-29T05:05:46Z beach: I guess I should act upon the suggestion of doing a series of presentations for the online Lisp meeting, with the subject how a Common Lisp compiler works.
2020-07-29T05:06:23Z fwoaroof[m]: I just need to sit down and write a compiler for a subset of lisp
2020-07-29T05:06:44Z fwoaroof[m]: It's the sort of thing that I understand best just working through the problems
2020-07-29T05:07:01Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T05:07:16Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:08:02Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:08:22Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T05:09:47Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T05:10:22Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:10:52Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:10:57Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:20:44Z cosimone_ quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-29T05:21:08Z niceplaces joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:21:47Z niceplace quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T05:22:09Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T05:33:54Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T05:34:14Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:40:04Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T05:40:21Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:43:28Z beach: In my opinion, programmers need to know about compiler design.  Not so much in order to create fast code, but in order to avoid guessing what the compiler will do, and in the process, making their code less maintainable.  But there are cases, like this one, where such knowledge is needed for creating fast code.
2020-07-29T05:48:36Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T05:49:36Z niceplaces quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-29T05:49:58Z niceplace joined #lisp
2020-07-29T05:51:13Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-29T05:53:16Z fwoaroof[m]: Yeah, I've been slowly discovering in my professional career why the old lisp books cover the topics they do
2020-07-29T05:53:38Z fwoaroof[m]: Things like continuations and language design are surprisingly relevant to day-to-day programming
2020-07-29T05:55:39Z beach: Exactly.
2020-07-29T05:57:42Z seok38: fwoaroof[m] yeah, for books on other specific languages I wouldn't trust stuff that is printed before 2012
2020-07-29T06:04:28Z Misha_B quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T06:08:24Z gioyik quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-29T06:10:56Z sunwukong joined #lisp
2020-07-29T06:16:16Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T06:16:32Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T06:24:34Z Fare: ... and zippers!
2020-07-29T06:26:13Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-29T06:27:35Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-29T06:31:09Z Misha_B joined #lisp
2020-07-29T06:35:12Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-29T06:38:35Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T06:38:56Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T06:40:52Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-29T06:46:14Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T06:48:08Z zmyrgel joined #lisp
2020-07-29T06:50:22Z coltkirk quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T06:53:10Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-29T06:56:52Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T07:06:10Z technobean quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.2))
2020-07-29T07:10:36Z vaporatorius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T07:10:57Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-29T07:10:57Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-29T07:10:57Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-29T07:12:47Z farooqkz__ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T07:14:52Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-29T07:15:07Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T07:29:07Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T07:30:40Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T07:31:37Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-29T07:31:41Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-29T07:35:46Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-29T07:55:54Z ralt joined #lisp
2020-07-29T07:57:32Z phoe: don't trust zippers yes
2020-07-29T08:00:50Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-29T08:02:47Z farooqkz__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T08:06:39Z rwcom34174911 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T08:08:34Z rwcom3417491 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T08:09:18Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-29T08:15:02Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T08:18:45Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-29T08:20:24Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T08:20:42Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T08:21:34Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T08:22:12Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T08:30:20Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T08:33:54Z join_subline quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T08:36:05Z jgodbou quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T08:46:41Z frgo_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T08:48:28Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T08:48:41Z frgo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T08:51:26Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-29T08:59:47Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T09:00:30Z Misha_B` joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:00:51Z Misha_B quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T09:01:12Z Misha_B` is now known as Misha_B
2020-07-29T09:01:42Z Misha_B quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T09:02:09Z Misha_B joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:04:35Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T09:10:36Z join_subline joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:14:49Z Posterdati quit (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
2020-07-29T09:15:10Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T09:15:37Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:19:15Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:19:37Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:24:36Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T09:30:54Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:38:11Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T09:40:14Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:47:49Z mokulus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:54:23Z ofi joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:54:38Z ofi quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-29T09:56:07Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T09:56:21Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T09:57:23Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T09:57:44Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T10:13:03Z seok38 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T10:13:41Z madage quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T10:14:01Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-29T10:22:12Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T10:23:32Z technobean quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.2))
2020-07-29T10:23:41Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T10:24:05Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T10:27:01Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T10:27:01Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-29T10:27:19Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T10:27:37Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T10:28:10Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T10:31:11Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-29T10:36:25Z sunwukong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T10:41:48Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-29T10:45:58Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T10:50:06Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T10:50:08Z p_l: fwoaroof[m]: dynamic-extent doesn't have to be respected, but generally it's suggestion that it's similar to stack allocation, so it's less of a speed optimization and more space optimization
2020-07-29T10:51:02Z p_l: non-consing code also tends to keep to function arguments and return values a lot, but to be honest when looking for that I'
2020-07-29T10:51:07Z p_l: I'd keep profiler handy ;)
2020-07-29T10:54:29Z philadendrite quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-29T10:57:39Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-29T11:00:49Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-29T11:08:52Z Josh_2`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T11:09:14Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T11:09:15Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T11:11:35Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-29T11:21:09Z sunwukong joined #lisp
2020-07-29T11:23:05Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T11:25:53Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-29T11:26:35Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T11:29:11Z drdee joined #lisp
2020-07-29T11:29:11Z shidima joined #lisp
2020-07-29T11:30:44Z shidima quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-29T11:31:43Z Josh_2: Good afternoon
2020-07-29T11:31:51Z shidima joined #lisp
2020-07-29T11:35:20Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T11:42:54Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T11:44:52Z drdee quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-29T11:53:37Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-29T11:57:08Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:01:19Z Frobozz joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:06:44Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:14:51Z Frobozz quit (Quit: quit)
2020-07-29T12:16:31Z Josh_2: hmm I have a minor problem. Im trying to create my CLIM interface for an app, and all of the output is sent to *standard-output*, however I guess the backend is going to have to run in a different thread and I will have to override the default value of *standard-output* to be a different output stream so I can display the content in a different pane. Is it going to be safe for me to read from the stream on one thread and write on
2020-07-29T12:16:31Z Josh_2: another without using a lock?? or am I gonna have to go replace all of my instances of format with one that grabs a lock first?
2020-07-29T12:16:31Z flazh1 quit (Quit: flazh1)
2020-07-29T12:18:07Z Josh_2: I wish to run the backend with or without my CLIM interface, so I don't want to go messing with it all that much
2020-07-29T12:18:12Z flazh joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:18:33Z Bike: if it came down to that you could just have a stream object that handles locking itself, probably, so the rest of your code wouldn't have to change
2020-07-29T12:18:34Z jonatack quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T12:20:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-29T12:20:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:22:38Z phoe thinks of a world in which SIGNAL automatically placed a MUFFLE restart around the signaling site for all non-serious-conditions that would work in the same way as MUFFLE-WARNING does for warnings
2020-07-29T12:24:43Z Bike: what would that do?
2020-07-29T12:25:01Z phoe: a standard means of shortcircuiting signal handling
2020-07-29T12:25:17Z phoe: basically, "ok, I took care of this, I don't want any outer signal handlers to execute, please carry on with the standard execution flow"
2020-07-29T12:25:53Z phoe: I mean, it's trivial to write a SIGNAL* function that does exactly this, but a short discussion with someone on the Dylan condition system sparked this thought in my head
2020-07-29T12:26:15Z phoe: I don't remember if it was ioa or someone else, but I think it was #lispcafe
2020-07-29T12:27:32Z jackdaniel: Josh_2: if you use the *standard-output* from inside the display function, then you are not accessing the it from "foreign" thread
2020-07-29T12:27:55Z phoe adds it to the idea bin for the Hypothetical Future Revision™
2020-07-29T12:28:13Z jackdaniel: generally using streams asynchronously from a different thread is risky at best (i.e CCL signals an error)
2020-07-29T12:28:55Z jackdaniel: currently McCLIM streams are *not* thread safe, however I have plans to change that by scheduling asynchronous operations as events, which will be later "properly" handled in the stream-specific thread when dequeued
2020-07-29T12:29:52Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T12:29:55Z Josh_2: jackdaniel: well I am not using *standard-output* I have my own output-stream I have created as a slot on my frame which I wish to use in place of *standard-output* with (let ((*standard-output* output-stream ... etc
2020-07-29T12:29:58Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:31:55Z jackdaniel: Josh_2: you may always define a method frame-standard-output
2020-07-29T12:32:03Z jackdaniel: specialized on your frame and returning "your" stream
2020-07-29T12:32:08Z jackdaniel: instead of doing ad-hoc rebind
2020-07-29T12:32:15Z jackdaniel: http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/28-3.html#_1496
2020-07-29T12:32:20Z jackdaniel: same for other "standard" streams
2020-07-29T12:33:01Z Josh_2: is there an example of this being done?
2020-07-29T12:33:22Z pve: is there an actual document or wiki for the Hypothetical Future Revision, or is it just a joke?
2020-07-29T12:34:18Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:34:21Z jackdaniel: (clim:define-application-frame foo () ((my-stream :initform /whatever/ :reader my-stream)) …) (defmethod clim:frame-standard-output ((frame foo)) (my-stream frame))
2020-07-29T12:34:25Z jackdaniel: tadaa
2020-07-29T12:34:39Z jackdaniel: pve: on cliki there is a page called errata
2020-07-29T12:35:18Z jackdaniel: other than that there is a lejtmotiv of people who want to improve the standard
2020-07-29T12:35:27Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:35:29Z jackdaniel: leitmotiv*
2020-07-29T12:36:05Z phoe: pve: there's none, yet
2020-07-29T12:36:09Z eta: jackdaniel: leitmotif*
2020-07-29T12:36:21Z phoe: there's much more important stuff to do than working on the hypothetical future revision though
2020-07-29T12:36:35Z phoe: like finishing ultraspec for the nonhypothetical current revision
2020-07-29T12:36:39Z jackdaniel: eta: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/leitmotiv disagrees
2020-07-29T12:36:45Z pve: nice, learned a new word today, leitmotiv
2020-07-29T12:37:00Z phoe: TIL I learned of the dual spelling of this word
2020-07-29T12:37:08Z phoe: s/I learned//
2020-07-29T12:39:05Z bitmappe_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:41:05Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T12:41:19Z diamondbond_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:43:20Z zmyrgel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T12:43:52Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T12:46:34Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T12:49:58Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-29T12:57:33Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-29T13:02:25Z sm2n joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:07:49Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:13:15Z enrioog joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:15:46Z enrio quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T13:17:19Z bacterio quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-29T13:19:59Z caltelt joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:20:43Z nydel quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-07-29T13:22:21Z nydel joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:25:05Z RedMallet is now known as treflip
2020-07-29T13:26:56Z bacterio joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:34:42Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:34:53Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:37:55Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T13:39:59Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:40:07Z cracauer quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T13:41:18Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:41:40Z bitmappe_ is now known as bitmapper
2020-07-29T13:44:02Z diamondbond_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T13:46:25Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T13:54:30Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T13:57:08Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-29T13:59:32Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:00:10Z enrioog quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T14:07:19Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:07:35Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:09:54Z caltelt quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T14:10:50Z lucasb joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:14:11Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:18:13Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T14:18:29Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:19:23Z cairn quit (Quit: authenticating)
2020-07-29T14:24:04Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:24:15Z jesse1010 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:26:58Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T14:28:21Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:29:30Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:31:42Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T14:32:43Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:34:19Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:34:36Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T14:35:04Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:35:37Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-29T14:41:57Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:48:38Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:51:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:52:55Z himmAllRight17 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:53:30Z bsdhere joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:55:04Z Necktwi_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:58:15Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-29T14:58:15Z himmAllRight quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-29T14:58:15Z jackdaniel quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T14:58:15Z Necktwi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T14:58:15Z bsd4me quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T14:59:52Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:06:34Z cosimone quit (Quit: Terminated!)
2020-07-29T15:10:02Z bsdhere quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-29T15:10:37Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:14:01Z cairn quit (Changing host)
2020-07-29T15:14:01Z cairn joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:19:52Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:26:06Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:26:42Z elxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:27:53Z madand quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-07-29T15:29:33Z madand joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:29:34Z elxbarbosa quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-29T15:29:57Z elxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:32:00Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-29T15:33:35Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:36:35Z jmercouris: let's say I have class A, and class B
2020-07-29T15:36:42Z jmercouris: I have a method that specializes on class B
2020-07-29T15:36:48Z jmercouris: class B extends class A
2020-07-29T15:36:53Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-29T15:37:21Z phoe: OK
2020-07-29T15:37:27Z jmercouris: I'm thinking how to phrase this
2020-07-29T15:37:29Z jmercouris: it is hard to explain
2020-07-29T15:37:45Z jmercouris: Instead of class B extending class A, I want class A to somehow get the properties of class B
2020-07-29T15:37:55Z phoe: what do you mean by properties?
2020-07-29T15:38:12Z jmercouris: I mean that I want the method that specializes on class B, to also get invoked for class A objects
2020-07-29T15:38:19Z jmercouris: I also want class A object to get class B's slots
2020-07-29T15:38:28Z phoe: make A inherit from B
2020-07-29T15:38:42Z jmercouris: here is where it gets tricky
2020-07-29T15:38:45Z jmercouris: that is the very obvious solution
2020-07-29T15:38:54Z jmercouris: A does not know about B during declaration time
2020-07-29T15:39:03Z jmercouris: so when I am writing (defclass A ...) B does not yet exist
2020-07-29T15:39:07Z jmercouris: it will exist at a later time
2020-07-29T15:39:15Z phoe: start a new REPL and try (defclass bar (foo) ())
2020-07-29T15:39:18Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:39:18Z phoe: see what happens
2020-07-29T15:39:19Z jmercouris: if I could make A inherit from B at run time...
2020-07-29T15:39:28Z phoe: try make-instance
2020-07-29T15:39:33Z jmercouris: OK
2020-07-29T15:39:35Z phoe: then try (defclass foo () ())
2020-07-29T15:39:36Z lavaflow quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T15:39:39Z phoe: then again try make-instance
2020-07-29T15:39:56Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:39:59Z phoe: mop forward-referenced-class
2020-07-29T15:39:59Z specbot: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-forward-referenced-class.html
2020-07-29T15:40:06Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:40:08Z jmercouris: WAT
2020-07-29T15:40:10Z jmercouris: how does that EVEN WORK
2020-07-29T15:40:21Z jmercouris: wow, so many things I had assumed
2020-07-29T15:40:25Z jmercouris: our design could have been so much simpler
2020-07-29T15:40:35Z phoe: My Little CLOS: Forward Referencing Is Magic™
2020-07-29T15:41:09Z jmercouris: yes it is
2020-07-29T15:41:19Z jmercouris: hm, more questions you've given me phoe
2020-07-29T15:41:22Z jmercouris: time to think
2020-07-29T15:41:24Z jmercouris: thanks for the help
2020-07-29T15:41:32Z phoe: that's one obvious upside of CLOS being a runtime object system as opposed to being a compile-time object system
2020-07-29T15:42:25Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T15:42:25Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-29T15:45:08Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-29T15:45:47Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:47:59Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-29T15:48:16Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T15:48:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:49:09Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T15:53:50Z arbv quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-07-29T15:54:17Z OpenZen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T15:57:44Z lookasas joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:01:00Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:01:06Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T16:01:10Z mokulus quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T16:01:21Z justache quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T16:01:28Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:02:52Z justache joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:04:51Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T16:05:02Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:05:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T16:07:08Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:11:56Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T16:12:22Z liberliver quit (Quit: liberliver)
2020-07-29T16:14:04Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:16:15Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T16:17:01Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:17:08Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T16:17:21Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:19:03Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:19:19Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T16:19:39Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:20:09Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-29T16:22:30Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:28:04Z mokulus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:28:29Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:34:32Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-29T16:39:12Z Codaraxis joined #lisp
2020-07-29T16:53:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T17:01:05Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T17:01:49Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:04:22Z remexre joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:05:48Z treflip quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-29T17:09:09Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-29T17:10:28Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:11:03Z elxbarbosa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T17:14:20Z phoe: KMP has implemented a condition system in Python to convert Pythonists to the round side of the force
2020-07-29T17:14:29Z phoe: and the best thing is that I'll likely convince him to talk on OLM on the topic
2020-07-29T17:14:43Z phoe: hmmmmmmm
2020-07-29T17:15:39Z fe[nl]ix: that
2020-07-29T17:15:45Z fe[nl]ix: is wonderful
2020-07-29T17:15:47Z fe[nl]ix: :)
2020-07-29T17:16:11Z phoe: that is 1200% wonderful
2020-07-29T17:16:24Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:16:28Z phoe: your average programmer doesn't speak Lisp but they very likely speak Python to *some* extent
2020-07-29T17:16:51Z phoe: so, hey, here's SIGNAL, here's conditions, and handlers, and restarts, and the debugger
2020-07-29T17:17:26Z gaa joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:20:08Z phoe: I'm waiting for him to publish the sources so I can try and be the first one to post it on /r/Lisp
2020-07-29T17:20:25Z phoe is excited
2020-07-29T17:21:19Z lavaflow quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T17:23:56Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T17:25:34Z abhixec joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:26:46Z jackdaniel: isn't it just another feature from Lisp cross-polluting to other languages? I mean - when people encounter the garbage collector they don't think "wow lisp", they think "wow java"
2020-07-29T17:28:05Z phoe: obviously it is
2020-07-29T17:28:29Z jackdaniel: (or anonymous function or whatever has been adopted in X language; I don't understand excitement, unless you are happy that python will improve because you are a python programmer)
2020-07-29T17:28:48Z jackdaniel: because [for instance] you are *
2020-07-29T17:30:08Z phoe: sure, I like hearing about this kind of stuff where nice ideas migrate into wider ecosystems
2020-07-29T17:31:24Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T17:31:52Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:31:57Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T17:32:17Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:32:29Z fe[nl]ix: jackdaniel: you mean cross-pollinating ?
2020-07-29T17:32:45Z jackdaniel: yes, thanks for the correction
2020-07-29T17:33:57Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T17:34:06Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:34:12Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:34:27Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T17:35:00Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:35:25Z sunwukong quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T17:36:15Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:40:44Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:42:49Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-07-29T17:44:08Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:47:22Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-29T17:49:38Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T17:58:26Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T17:59:30Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T18:01:37Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:05:57Z phoe: Online Lisp Meeting #6 announced: https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/i05dr1
2020-07-29T18:07:58Z phoe: ;; oh, it didn't go out the way I've planned - I need to perfect my way of sending ICS invitations
2020-07-29T18:10:41Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T18:14:54Z Fare: nice!
2020-07-29T18:15:50Z Fare: Was the #.(ALEXANDRIA:RANDOM-ELT *OLM-MAIL-GREETINGS*) a deliberate joke or a mistake? Poe's Law.
2020-07-29T18:16:01Z mrcom quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-29T18:16:29Z phoe: Fare: neither, it is a koan
2020-07-29T18:16:42Z Fare: so, both.
2020-07-29T18:17:03Z Fare: phoe, so, you never go to Wawel castle?
2020-07-29T18:17:29Z phoe takes Wawel to #lispcafe
2020-07-29T18:17:35Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:19:48Z grewal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T18:20:34Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T18:22:32Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-29T18:23:28Z shidima quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T18:24:40Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:24:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:25:09Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T18:25:14Z Sauvin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T18:25:15Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:25:17Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T18:25:29Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:26:17Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:26:47Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-29T18:26:54Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:31:20Z retropikzel quit (Quit: retropikzel)
2020-07-29T18:34:14Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:37:27Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T18:39:03Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T18:52:12Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:55:27Z retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-29T18:56:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T18:57:18Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-29T18:58:12Z gxt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T18:58:50Z gxt joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:02:30Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T19:05:12Z uplime is now known as [
2020-07-29T19:08:30Z jeosol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T19:11:08Z rwcom341749116 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:11:14Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:12:12Z rwcom34174911 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T19:16:29Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:22:29Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:23:18Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:23:21Z toorevitimirp quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-29T19:24:44Z Josh_2: Hi. With CLIM how do I have a pane update all the time instead of only when I input a command into the interactor?
2020-07-29T19:24:57Z shrysr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T19:25:17Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:25:19Z Josh_2: I have a pane that is supposed to read from a constantly updated stream and then display what it has read
2020-07-29T19:25:44Z ggproriven joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:25:49Z shrysr joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:34:45Z ggproriven: when lisp is going to beat python?
2020-07-29T19:35:11Z Josh_2: In what way?
2020-07-29T19:37:17Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:39:37Z flip214: How can I use CL:COUNT within ITERATE?
2020-07-29T19:41:01Z ioa: phoe I did mention dylan on the condition-system question, but I don't think we talked about it.
2020-07-29T19:41:05Z dlowe: flip214: in what way?
2020-07-29T19:42:37Z flip214: dlowe: it looks to me as if ITERATE tries to interpret COUNT or even CL:COUNT like with CONC, COLLECT etc. clauses
2020-07-29T19:43:33Z ggproriven left #lisp
2020-07-29T19:43:41Z ioa: phoe also you mentioned it on that mastodon answer.
2020-07-29T19:43:45Z lookasas quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T19:44:45Z flip214: (COUNT-IF (alexandria:curry eq T) seq) works but is clumsy
2020-07-29T19:45:16Z gxt quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-29T19:45:35Z dlowe: are you counting T or non-null?
2020-07-29T19:45:49Z dlowe: because it'd be (count-if 'identity seq) if the latter
2020-07-29T19:46:04Z mrcom: (iterate (for i below 4) (sum (funcall #'count 1 '(1 2 1 0))))
2020-07-29T19:47:05Z mfiano: iterate uses symbol property lists for aliases.
2020-07-29T19:47:14Z mfiano: (remprop 'iterate::count 'iterate::synonym)
2020-07-29T19:47:27Z mfiano: now you can still use COUNTING, what the synonym points to
2020-07-29T19:47:50Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:48:17Z dlowe: clause synonyms are a loop feature I could happily done without
2020-07-29T19:50:40Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T19:52:34Z flip214: mfiano: ah, thanks, good to know!
2020-07-29T19:52:58Z flip214: but that might interfere with other libraries' use of ITERATE, sadly
2020-07-29T19:53:22Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T19:54:35Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:56:39Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T19:58:05Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T19:58:32Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T19:59:27Z Alfr: Should it be there in the first place? From iterate's manual section 2.3: "However, when there is a conflict with Common Lisp, only the present-participle form may be used (e.g. unioning). This is to prevent iterate clauses from clashing with Common Lisp functions."
2020-07-29T20:02:45Z mfiano: It should not. There was an SO answer about this question recently that suggested reporting a bug to either update the documentation, or deleting the synonym. I'm unsure if that was ever realized though.
2020-07-29T20:03:14Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:05:14Z Alfr: Getting rid of that in the docs would be bad, that would then also make reduce harder to access and maybe also other things.
2020-07-29T20:07:26Z mfiano: Here it is: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/59261705/how-can-i-use-the-function-count-inside-an-iterate-form
2020-07-29T20:08:16Z mfiano: "I've sent a bug repot to the mailing list and cc'd you. Thanks for explaining this to me!". So it has been reported, but you know how it goes with a lot of Lisp libraries. Bus factor of 1 or less.
2020-07-29T20:11:11Z mrcom: flip214: (setf (symbol-function 'foo-cnt) #'cl:count) (iterate (for i below 4) (sum (foo-cnt 1 '(1 2 1 0)))) ;; => 8
2020-07-29T20:11:21Z phoe: dirty
2020-07-29T20:11:30Z mrcom: Very :)
2020-07-29T20:13:05Z diamondbond quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T20:13:19Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:17:11Z Alfr: mfiano, it's not that lispers don't know how to fix it, but more that it's (at least to me) unclear whether it's still actively maintained. Of course, apart from this and the documented limitations which boils down to the need of a better code walker, I've never noticed it to break, i.e. not much maintenance required.
2020-07-29T20:18:15Z phoe: > unclear whether it's still actively maintained
2020-07-29T20:18:17Z mfiano: That was what I implied by "bus factor of 1 or less"
2020-07-29T20:18:26Z wsinatra_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:18:32Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-29T20:19:29Z Alfr: mfiano, we wouldn't lose the ability to maintain it, if he/she got hit by a bus ... were we to know that fact.
2020-07-29T20:19:35Z phoe: I guess that us lispers kinda grew used to life with the fact that we live on big piles of Heisenberg-abandoned code that gets unburied and refreshed now and then when it's necessary
2020-07-29T20:19:48Z Alfr: Hm ... that sounds a little morbid. :/
2020-07-29T20:20:05Z phoe: there are notable exceptions and lively projects
2020-07-29T20:20:06Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T20:20:32Z phoe: but there's a ton of code that just stopped getting commits at some point of time
2020-07-29T20:20:41Z mfiano: It's both a blessing and a curse for Lisp.
2020-07-29T20:20:56Z phoe: this isn't strictly about Lisp, but it's definitely visible in the Lisp community because there's few people in the community in general compared to languages considered mainstream nowadays
2020-07-29T20:21:08Z Alfr: phoe, which also implies that such code is quite stable and usable.
2020-07-29T20:21:28Z mfiano: A blessing, because Lisp being as flexible and expressive as it is, allows a single developer to mold the language to their domain. After all, code is just a projection of ones' own mind.
2020-07-29T20:21:29Z phoe: Alfr: yes, that's the part that mfiano called a "blessing" up above
2020-07-29T20:21:45Z phoe: but then imagine that you do finally find a bug in there
2020-07-29T20:22:00Z phoe: and when you find a bug
2020-07-29T20:22:04Z phoe: who you gonna call?
2020-07-29T20:22:05Z Alfr: phoe, some libraries also are at some point "finished" as in having implemented all they purport to do.
2020-07-29T20:22:06Z mfiano: So it's no wonder why Lispers don't work together that well. It's often easier to express ideas suitable for themself rather than conform to someone elses'.
2020-07-29T20:22:07Z phoe: SHARP-LISPERS
2020-07-29T20:22:14Z phoe hides for the teerrible pun
2020-07-29T20:22:43Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T20:25:58Z mfiano: "finished" is a funny term to use for software.
2020-07-29T20:26:09Z Alfr: phoe, fork locally and change it should I really need that change, but usually I'll just work around it; especially when it's something as commonly used as iterate.
2020-07-29T20:27:46Z Alfr: mfiano, I'd be also quite reluctant to publicly fork a repo just for what I deem to be a bug.
2020-07-29T20:27:53Z mfiano: Software is finished when it does what it intends to do correctly, and without any bugs. But the number of bugs is proportional to the number of users, and their funny input and use-cases. If you ever think you're "finished", just (incf *users*).
2020-07-29T20:28:24Z aeth: ITERATE is commonly used? I haven't really seen it in use and I've tried to use it before, but it has this sort of uncanny valley effect where it's close enough to LOOP that I come to it with my LOOP expectations, but different enough that few of those LOOP expectations work, making it a library that's not very easy to use ime.
2020-07-29T20:28:28Z phoe: Alfr: so basically you don't push it upstream
2020-07-29T20:29:09Z phoe: if you do this instinctively then I can imagine there's other people who do the same because it's impossible to effectively update an upstream project that has no maintainer
2020-07-29T20:30:13Z abhixec quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-29T20:30:19Z Alfr: phoe, if I can establish contact w/ maintainers and they say that they'll accept changes, I do.
2020-07-29T20:30:23Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T20:30:30Z phoe: Alfr: then such a project is not unmaintained
2020-07-29T20:30:54Z Alfr: phoe, but in my experience I sometimes simply can't even reach them.
2020-07-29T20:31:07Z phoe: see several fukamachiware projects which have had open PRs and issues for months if not years; even though the author is active and the projects are commonly used, they are effectively abandoned because no one maintains them
2020-07-29T20:31:50Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:31:51Z phoe: I use them as examples because they're both prominent in their popularity and notorious for their almost-working-ness and impenetrable code
2020-07-29T20:32:12Z mrcom: Iterate also has some issues with type declarations, and it would be nice to get rid of the reader macros (messes up source-code location tracking in SLY--general SBCL issue?).
2020-07-29T20:33:41Z mfiano: Yes, fukamachiware is notorious for being unmaintained with an active developer.
2020-07-29T20:34:03Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T20:34:46Z phoe: and that's actually something achievementworthy
2020-07-29T20:34:48Z phoe: I mean, it's not trivial
2020-07-29T20:34:56Z Alfr: aeth, maybe it's just me using it all over the place, I guess I really like iterate for having less ordering requirements for its clauses.
2020-07-29T20:35:09Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:35:33Z mfiano: I have years-old issues there. I couple years ago I just decided to refuse to use any of them because of it. They simply do not work as intended for my use-cases, and the coding style is painful for me to patch myself without taking too much time away from problems higher up on my list.
2020-07-29T20:36:04Z mfiano: It'd be easier to rewrite myself. That's back to the "blessing" above.
2020-07-29T20:36:17Z phoe: mfiano: issues with what exactly?
2020-07-29T20:36:18Z aeth: heh, I have some issues from me from 2 years ago in my own game engine :-p
2020-07-29T20:37:12Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:37:13Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-29T20:37:13Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:37:29Z mfiano: clack, sxql, datafly, cl-dbi, to name a few. Show-stopper bugs that made me write my own things, though I do not do much web development these days anymore, anyway.
2020-07-29T20:37:38Z aeth: (And if I was more consistent about using issues in my game engine, I'd probably have several dozen issues dating back 4 years.)
2020-07-29T20:37:43Z phoe: oh, yes
2020-07-29T20:37:51Z phoe: that's the "mostly working" part
2020-07-29T20:38:03Z phoe: it works until you want to actually use it for something nontrivial
2020-07-29T20:38:16Z aeth: I'd argue most libraries are in that state
2020-07-29T20:38:16Z phoe: and then you try to figure out what has broken
2020-07-29T20:38:34Z phoe: sure, but some of them are redeemable, e.g. by being maintained and/or maintainable
2020-07-29T20:38:49Z phoe: fukamachiware is famous for being neither
2020-07-29T20:39:21Z mfiano: and are maintained with forethought instead of retrofitting features and bug fixes.
2020-07-29T20:39:34Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-29T20:40:20Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-29T20:41:01Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:41:55Z phoe: that's the third one
2020-07-29T20:41:58Z phoe: I can agree with that
2020-07-29T20:42:17Z phoe: so I have a question then
2020-07-29T20:42:26Z mfiano: I don't mean to sound so critical of other peoples' work. It's just that one of the major reasons I use CL is because it's easier to sculpt things myself with regard for my particular domain.
2020-07-29T20:42:41Z phoe: do we lack the people to fix that state of matters? do we lack the organization? do we lack discipline or money or what
2020-07-29T20:43:15Z aeth: money
2020-07-29T20:43:27Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T20:43:46Z niceplace quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T20:43:53Z aeth: e.g. the popular web libraries in other languages are usually well-maintained because people use them professionally
2020-07-29T20:43:54Z mfiano: I think we lack the desire, because of the ease of rolling your own and bending the language to your own thought processes.
2020-07-29T20:44:16Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:44:27Z niceplace joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:44:55Z mfiano: Lisp is the lone wolf's language, which again, is a blessing and a curse.
2020-07-29T20:46:38Z phoe: aeth: I don't think it's the issue with money, I don't think the average or median of wealth and/or incomes is on the poor side when it comes to lispers
2020-07-29T20:47:05Z phoe: I was thinking that we could collectively organize something if we really wanted to
2020-07-29T20:47:19Z phoe: and the "if we really wanted to" kinda brings us back to the question I asked
2020-07-29T20:47:23Z mfiano: I think the issue is the "really wanted to" part
2020-07-29T20:48:10Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:48:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T20:48:11Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T20:49:01Z phoe: then again mfiano's answer is not really an answer in my opinion, because it's more than possible to write software collectively in Lisp and there's dozens of examples of that, and it's possible to write software that is maintainable even after being abandoned by its original authors and then successive maintainers
2020-07-29T20:49:08Z mfiano: I don't speak for everyone of course, but I think that in addition to the low bus factor, there is also a very low er count for the majority of Lisp software.
2020-07-29T20:49:16Z aeth: phoe: emphasis on "people use them professionally", not on "money"
2020-07-29T20:49:16Z mfiano: user count*
2020-07-29T20:49:34Z mfiano: Relative to the number of Lisp users that is
2020-07-29T20:49:58Z phoe: aeth: low adoption of Lisp in professional circles, then? I guess I can dig that
2020-07-29T20:50:28Z aeth: money more as money flowing to people through the project (probably indirectly) is what I had meant
2020-07-29T20:50:43Z Josh_2: (incf mfiano) :P
2020-07-29T20:51:02Z phoe: but if new languages and paradigms appear from the level of zero professional adoption, then in theory it's also a question why Lisp with its strengths doesn't manage to do that
2020-07-29T20:51:54Z phoe: I was thinking if it's some sort of a question of bringing the software that we have from its current diaspora into one collective place
2020-07-29T20:51:56Z mfiano: Yes professional use is another factor, and Eric Normand and others have talked about the reasons extensively.
2020-07-29T20:51:58Z phoe: but we have Quicklisp
2020-07-29T20:52:18Z phoe: so we have Quicklisp and still that isn't the full solution; what is the next step?
2020-07-29T20:53:44Z mfiano: Convince companies that they don't need to hire Java boilerplate data entry specialists in drones because they are cheap and expendable?
2020-07-29T20:55:25Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:55:46Z phoe: I wonder if we could listen to Eric Normand and learn something from the world of Clojure that grew really nice and well
2020-07-29T20:55:53Z phoe: Clojure ain't Java
2020-07-29T20:56:16Z phoe thinks aloud
2020-07-29T20:57:41Z mfiano: Java's success is mostly because developers can sneak modules into existing Java codebases seamlessly.
2020-07-29T20:58:06Z phoe: ABCL though
2020-07-29T20:59:03Z dlowe: Java's success is mostly from billions of dollars of research and marketing on Sun's part
2020-07-29T20:59:09Z mfiano: I think performance and the lack of backing by a company such as Cognitect is the biggest concern there
2020-07-29T20:59:20Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:59:35Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-29T20:59:40Z dlowe: Cognitect was just acquired by Nubank
2020-07-29T20:59:55Z phoe: which kinda proves its success
2020-07-29T21:00:23Z dlowe: anyway, if you want people to use something like a programming language, you have to put it between them and something they want
2020-07-29T21:00:43Z dlowe: for 99.999% of programmers, that's a guaranteed job
2020-07-29T21:00:54Z phoe: so we gotta start a Lisp shop or something and focus on marketing?
2020-07-29T21:01:10Z dlowe: a) profit! b) ??? c) lisp popularity
2020-07-29T21:01:23Z phoe: wait, did you get the order right on that one
2020-07-29T21:01:27Z dlowe: sadly yes
2020-07-29T21:01:53Z dlowe: most new languages that become widely successful get corporate sponsorship
2020-07-29T21:02:13Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:02:33Z dlowe: perl being a curious and temporary exception
2020-07-29T21:03:51Z aeth: dlowe: If by "put it between them and something they want", you mean "require the usage of that language to enter some ecosystem", that definitely works, e.g. JavaScript, C#, or any language by Apple
2020-07-29T21:04:33Z phoe: aeth: there's languages that gain popularity without such dirty tactics
2020-07-29T21:04:42Z aeth: dlowe: Perl failed because Perl 6 was even more of a failure than Python 3 in driving away existing users and not offering a clear upgrade path (Python eventually recovered, but was probably set back 5 years)
2020-07-29T21:06:10Z aeth: phoe: Some are just for one library (in the case of Ruby, Rails) and some are for quite a few libraries (Python), but for the most part, people use a new language when the choice has been made for them (even Emacs Lisp's popularity to some extent)
2020-07-29T21:06:46Z aeth: Arguably Python's shifting more in this direction because of machine learning libraries like Tensorflow
2020-07-29T21:08:02Z aeth: (As in, required rather than just offering better libraries)
2020-07-29T21:08:33Z v3ga quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-29T21:09:41Z phoe: I still don't think that's the whole story
2020-07-29T21:09:47Z mfiano: I meant to say "Clojure's success" above, not Java's
2020-07-29T21:10:00Z phoe: mfiano: yes, I guessed
2020-07-29T21:10:18Z phoe: I assumed it's a terrible pun on my "Clojure ain't Java" posted two lines above
2020-07-29T21:10:31Z aeth: phoe: I wouldn't call it "dirty tactics", either. I mean, when Microsoft or Apple or Google does it, they're trying to push for more control, but it's a concept that works in general and includes e.g. JavaScript or even C++. Some domains just force you to use the language, generally to be involved in some ecosystem.
2020-07-29T21:11:13Z phoe: aeth: agreed. (though the domain of programming for corporate ecosystem X or Y or Z is still dirty gatekeeping in my opinion)
2020-07-29T21:12:23Z aeth: phoe: To be fair, though, Microsoft did try some language-agnostic approaches like COM.
2020-07-29T21:12:37Z rwcom3417491164 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:12:43Z Josh_2: is the clim channel #clim ?
2020-07-29T21:12:58Z phoe: Josh_2: t
2020-07-29T21:13:49Z Josh_2: thanks
2020-07-29T21:14:05Z rwcom341749116 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T21:14:46Z phoe: aeth: I think that we shouldn't go into this alley because we have no big ecosystem of Lisp software or Lisp-related domain that might act as a reason for people to learn Lisp for
2020-07-29T21:15:24Z phoe: and the last somewhat successful Lisp-based OS died shortly after hardware it was designed for
2020-07-29T21:15:47Z MetaYan: phoe: Not the last.
2020-07-29T21:16:10Z aeth: phoe: I think that this is the only "alley" one can go down. The secondary and tertiary libraries aren't going to really take off without primary libraries/frameworks/applications/whatevers that drive people to the language.
2020-07-29T21:16:11Z phoe: MetaYan: oh? there was something after OpenGenera that achieved some commercial success?
2020-07-29T21:16:16Z MetaYan: There is one being built.
2020-07-29T21:16:38Z phoe: MetaYan: oh, I'm aware of that; I'm not taking it into account yet though
2020-07-29T21:16:46Z phoe: aeth: hmmmm.
2020-07-29T21:16:48Z MetaYan: What is commercial success when compared to hapiness?
2020-07-29T21:17:03Z aeth: phoe: I personally think that the main place where any language can attract lots of new programmers is probably games. People will learn any language (Java, Lua, C#, custom proprietary languages, etc.) to mod their favorite games and they're usually too young to know better (i.e. too young to focus just on the most marketable language)
2020-07-29T21:17:05Z phoe: what is happiness if it is conditioned by programming languages one uses
2020-07-29T21:17:25Z MetaYan: Is anyone stopping anyone from using Lisp?
2020-07-29T21:17:34Z mfiano: phoe: I think one of the best things we as Lispers can do to improve onboarding, is to have better tooling, starting first with SLIME/Sly equivalent for other editors, but in addition, extending asdf to allow versioned/package-renamed dependencies (however possible that may be) for more reproducible builds outside of the near-bleeding edge Quicklisp dist, etc
2020-07-29T21:17:36Z aeth: MetaYan: bosses generally are :-p
2020-07-29T21:17:41Z White_Flame: MetaYan: on the job?  yes
2020-07-29T21:18:14Z MetaYan: Anyone can always start their own company using the language of choice.
2020-07-29T21:18:32Z White_Flame: sure anyone can start a company.  Getting a market & customer base is another thing
2020-07-29T21:18:53Z aeth: Anyone with the ability to go months/years before seeing their first paycheck
2020-07-29T21:18:55Z phoe: MetaYan: that's technically correct advice that I consider to be of little practicality
2020-07-29T21:19:35Z phoe: aeth: mfiano: I'll think about these when I go to sleep
2020-07-29T21:19:54Z mfiano: Lisp has a pretty high learning curve even if you discount the learning of a [probably] new editor, configuring it, etc. Emacs is nice and all, but C++ doesn't require MSVC for effectiveness
2020-07-29T21:19:59Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:20:30Z luckless quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T21:21:00Z aeth: I think tooling follows adoption, not the other way around, and some decently popular languages (like Lua) have terrible tooling, but people still use it because the games they want to script use it.
2020-07-29T21:21:22Z phoe: I assume that you can't really write Lisp in a notepad
2020-07-29T21:21:37Z mrcom: I think perhaps Lisp is not as well suited for the niches filled by more mainstream languages.
2020-07-29T21:21:39Z phoe: ...or you can, if you believe enough
2020-07-29T21:21:44Z aeth: phoe: you can, it just won't look pretty
2020-07-29T21:21:46Z wsinatra_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T21:21:50Z mfiano: That is true, however I can't even count the number of newcomers to the language that gave up during the learning of Emacs
2020-07-29T21:21:59Z mfiano: At least the ones I helped anyway
2020-07-29T21:22:07Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-29T21:22:10Z phoe: (incf mfiano)
2020-07-29T21:22:15Z phoe: emacs is a major scarecrow
2020-07-29T21:22:18Z MetaYan: I can compare the joy of getting Mezzano running on hardware the other day with the aversion to even touching the computer at my last programming gig - which was digging in someone else's spaghetti code in VB.
2020-07-29T21:22:45Z mrcom: And conversely, there are many niches for which Lisp is much better suited.
2020-07-29T21:23:41Z Gnuxie[m]: There isn't much of an 🆑 ecosystem relative to other languages, that includes both libraries and a labour pool and other than supposed efficiency, the perceived (gains?) of taking CL (as a corperation) doesn't out weigh the risks
2020-07-29T21:24:13Z wsinatra quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-29T21:24:23Z mfiano: Then you get the ocassional newcomer that uses Notepad++ complete with dangling parens (usually a student that was improperly introduced)
2020-07-29T21:25:17Z mfiano: and quickly give up because they aren't utilizing the interactive and introspective workflow Lisp was designed around
2020-07-29T21:25:23Z Gnuxie[m]: plus, you would also have to fight all the educational institutions too if you went with 🆑, since they are churning out people to write glue in Java, everything is against you
2020-07-29T21:25:32Z mrcom: Large corporate code bases tend to be structurally.. not complex, but very wide. Lots of elements with specific business-logic, but not as complex algorithms.
2020-07-29T21:25:54Z bitmapper: realistically i'd go with haskell or standard ml if it was for education
2020-07-29T21:26:25Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:27:02Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T21:27:04Z MetaYan: Even if I'm far from profocoent in Lisp, I'm tinkering with my own webserver in pure Lisp and even if it's a slow process, I find great joy (and of course occasional frustration followed by even greater joy) of using Common Lisp interactively.
2020-07-29T21:27:22Z MetaYan: proficient
2020-07-29T21:27:32Z mrcom: Corporate code needs fairly rigid APIs. It takes a lot of effort to make Lisp code rigid. Great for small teams or single developers, but not so much for large groups of teams.
2020-07-29T21:28:43Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:29:17Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-29T21:29:58Z aeth: You can enforce rigidity by requiring the use of certain custom macros, while also requiring any new DEFMACRO to be justified.
2020-07-29T21:30:08Z MetaYan: Could this be one of the reasons why people don't find Lisp to light up their programming ways?   https://www.perl.org/ https://www.python.org/ https://clojure.org/ https://lisp.org/
2020-07-29T21:30:19Z phoe: mrcom: that's why Google Style Guide for Lisp exists
2020-07-29T21:30:25Z mrcom: For example, even the simple concept of 'no value specified' is a big deal in the corporate world.
2020-07-29T21:30:28Z phoe: MetaYan: touche
2020-07-29T21:31:07Z mrcom: I'm not talking style. I'm talking loose data structures with complex graph walks.
2020-07-29T21:31:13Z Gnuxie[m]: Does it really 'take a lot of effort'? It takes 'effort' to enforce consistency and expectation in APIs in every other language
2020-07-29T21:31:48Z mrcom: You can't even, really, specify 'this is a list of X' in Lisp.
2020-07-29T21:32:25Z mrcom: That's good for some things, especially the flexible problems we like to throw Lisp at.
2020-07-29T21:32:33Z MetaYan: mrcom: Isn't that part of the beauty?
2020-07-29T21:32:44Z mrcom: Yes, it is. For some problems.
2020-07-29T21:32:56Z mrcom: Not so much for a payroll system.
2020-07-29T21:33:28Z MetaYan: If people want to have payroll systems in COBOL, then who's stopping them?
2020-07-29T21:33:53Z phoe: argumentum ad cobolum doesn't really work here, cmon
2020-07-29T21:34:27Z mrcom: COBOL actually isn't a bad language for simple payroll.
2020-07-29T21:34:36Z bitmapper: i mean it is
2020-07-29T21:34:39Z aeth: mrcom: List? Easy since you just write your own cons. Vector? Now that's much harder because :element-type is almost certainly only going to work on simple, immutable types like numbers and characters.
2020-07-29T21:34:43Z bitmapper: but it's not the worst thing you could choose
2020-07-29T21:34:49Z bitmapper: far from it
2020-07-29T21:35:17Z mrcom: aeth: What I mean is, you can't say '(declare (type (list foo) x))'
2020-07-29T21:35:42Z mrcom: Where it's absolutely guarenteed that X will only ever contains foos.
2020-07-29T21:36:05Z bitmapper: what do you think stuff like coalton is for
2020-07-29T21:36:10Z phoe: mrcom: (let ((x (make-instance 'typechecked-list :type 'foo))) ...)
2020-07-29T21:36:18Z aeth: mrcom: but you can write your own custom sequence consisting of a custom cons-like object that can only contain foos.
2020-07-29T21:36:29Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:36:38Z aeth: mrcom: You cannot do that for vectors/arrays... I mean, I guess you could, but it's much more complicated.
2020-07-29T21:36:43Z mrcom: aeth, you can, but it's a lot of work, and not what Lisp is best suited for.
2020-07-29T21:37:03Z Gnuxie[m]: that's such an irrelevant nitpick
2020-07-29T21:37:05Z mrcom: Lisp is much happier with problems where 'most of the time it's a foo, but once in a while we really need a bar in there.'
2020-07-29T21:37:20Z mrcom: That gives Java-ish languages fits.
2020-07-29T21:37:28Z MetaYan: mrcom: :) Beauty.
2020-07-29T21:37:44Z aeth: mrcom: I mean, Java and C++ both have a richer set of built-in collections
2020-07-29T21:37:48Z mrcom: MetaYan: I agree. I really enjoy working on those kinds of problems.
2020-07-29T21:37:54Z bitmapper: no
2020-07-29T21:38:01Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-29T21:38:05Z bitmapper: ah, java
2020-07-29T21:38:21Z bitmapper: yeah, i was about to say you can represent 'most of the time it's a foo, but once in a while we really need a bar in there.' with algebraic data types
2020-07-29T21:38:26Z mrcom: aeth: yes, with rigid types. Rigidity makes it easier for large groups to work together.
2020-07-29T21:38:58Z mrcom: And algebraic data types are not what the corporate world runs on.
2020-07-29T21:39:09Z aeth: mrcom: CL's type system is better, you can restrict things *at the type system level* to e.g. be (integer 5 32)
2020-07-29T21:39:22Z aeth: It's just that typed collections aren't particularly well-supported
2020-07-29T21:39:27Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:39:27Z mrcom: aeth: Yes, quite true. But in quirky ways.
2020-07-29T21:39:31Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-29T21:39:46Z aeth: And implementations like SBCL often treat types as just performance declarations, meaning (integer 5 31) might be treated as (integer 0 31)
2020-07-29T21:39:54Z mrcom: Corporate hates quirks. *I* hated quirks when I was managing those kinds of projects.
2020-07-29T21:40:06Z bitmapper: mrcom: i mean, most languages have algebraic data types
2020-07-29T21:40:52Z mrcom: Not in their philosophy.
2020-07-29T21:41:02Z MetaYan: mrcom: What are you playing with now?
2020-07-29T21:41:06Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:41:35Z diamondbond quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T21:41:43Z mrcom: I've been working on a Quixote project for the last couple of years. Complex graphs, fairly simple nodes, lots of complex transformations.
2020-07-29T21:41:44Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T21:41:51Z MetaYan: Using Lisp?
2020-07-29T21:41:56Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:42:02Z xrash quit (Excess Flood)
2020-07-29T21:42:03Z mrcom: Yep. Having a ball.
2020-07-29T21:42:33Z mrcom: But it's very, very much a research project. Not suitable for development by a group of people.
2020-07-29T21:43:58Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:43:59Z MetaYan: Aha, you mean like the windmill guy. I went off searching for some documentation about a system called Quixote.. :)
2020-07-29T21:44:15Z mrcom: bitmapper: What I mean, is that object-orientated languages do have polymorphic types, but the philosophy is get more and more grumpy as the objects become for homogeneous.
2020-07-29T21:44:28Z mrcom: s/homogensous/heterogeneous/
2020-07-29T21:46:14Z toorevitimirp quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-29T21:46:14Z stylewarning: algebraic data types ARE what the corporate world runs on, it’s just not obvious from the ludicrous tangle of abstract Java classes or  void pointers in C
2020-07-29T21:46:51Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-29T21:47:14Z mrcom: Yes, correct from an implementation standpoint, but that's like saying binary numbers are what they run on.
2020-07-29T21:47:19Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-29T21:48:11Z mrcom: To a very large extent, proper architecture of large systems is dedicated to seeking out and destroying differences.
2020-07-29T21:48:15Z stylewarning: It’s the opposite, it’s like they’re working with and juggling binary numbers and me saying “well actually they’re working with integers if you can See The Matrix”
2020-07-29T21:50:46Z mrcom: MetaYan: Yes, I'm tilting at some windmills :)
2020-07-29T21:51:23Z MetaYan: mrcom: Sounds nice, your project. Why the worries about the "corporate world"?
2020-07-29T21:51:42Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T21:52:13Z mrcom: stylewarning: Yes, you see a sequence, but commercial projects want an array. Or maybe, if you can't avoid it any other way, a linked list. But not both.
2020-07-29T21:52:51Z mrcom: MetaYan: Just some thoughts about "why is Java popular but Lisp isn't".
2020-07-29T21:53:12Z phoe: mrcom: nah, some of them just want a c++ iterable, which might be a sequence or a hash table or whatever other data structure
2020-07-29T21:53:43Z MetaYan: I'm asking, and trying to stay on topic here in the Lisp channel, because Lisp is somehow very different to what the "corporate world" is, at least for me. And there's no reason to bend Lisp into that, but just keep Lisp on the right track, and the "corporate world" will eventually change its ways. From rigidity to flexibility, and all that.
2020-07-29T21:53:45Z phoe: and it's possible to iterate over a Lisp sequence, even more so that the order of iteration is known
2020-07-29T21:53:48Z mrcom: phoe: True. But not a NULL.
2020-07-29T21:53:59Z phoe: mrcom: why? NIL is a valid list
2020-07-29T21:54:03Z stylewarning: mrcom: Lisp isn’t popular for much simpler and prosaic reasons than type system choices
2020-07-29T21:54:24Z mrcom: phoe: Yes, in Lisp. Which is the point I was trying to make. In Java it's a pain in the keister.
2020-07-29T21:54:34Z phoe: stylewarning: I actually want to hear your opinion on that
2020-07-29T21:55:53Z stylewarning: phoe: my opinion is kind of boring, but I think there are two reasons: the tooling isn’t in the style people want it to be, and there’s no consistent education around Lisp to fuel a job ecosystem
2020-07-29T21:56:25Z mrcom: And the reason it is a pain is because Java-friendly problems don't want special cases. A zero-length iterable is fine. A 'not there' value is a trouble spot.
2020-07-29T21:56:26Z stylewarning: Having to (in practice) use emacs and paredit and separately download a Lisp is a huge roadblock and nobody is excited about it
2020-07-29T21:56:38Z phoe: stylewarning: the latter project could be solvable by something beach has been thinking of as of late
2020-07-29T21:56:44Z phoe: stylewarning: wait a second, separately download a Lisp
2020-07-29T21:56:50Z phoe: you mean `apt download sbcl`?
2020-07-29T21:57:03Z stylewarning: People love downloading a fat 200 MB IntelliJ IDEA or pycharm or ....
2020-07-29T21:57:06Z phoe: s/download/install/
2020-07-29T21:57:19Z stylewarning: and love opening it up and seeing all the options for configuration in front of their eyes
2020-07-29T21:57:26Z phoe: oh, I see
2020-07-29T21:58:15Z stylewarning: Even clojure people have managed to come out with 3 (or more?!) dedicated IDEs
2020-07-29T21:58:28Z stylewarning: https://cursive-ide.com/
2020-07-29T21:58:40Z stylewarning: This stuff is beautiful and attractive and signals “we are serious”
2020-07-29T21:58:55Z stylewarning: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ParEdit
2020-07-29T21:59:08Z stylewarning: This signals hacky dork heaven that probably doesn’t even work
2020-07-29T21:59:45Z stylewarning: Of course, there’s another meta-discussion about what people prioritize and “what matters in life”, but these are my observations
2020-07-29T22:00:41Z mrcom: Developing in Emacs is, at heart, text editing. Maybe expression editing. Not a lot of semantics. (For example, 'rename this variable everywhere' is awkward.)
2020-07-29T22:00:57Z phoe: so one of the big reasons is the editor
2020-07-29T22:01:03Z phoe: I need to agree
2020-07-29T22:01:22Z stylewarning: phoe: it’s even bigger than the editor, it’s the first impression
2020-07-29T22:01:37Z phoe: as mentioned earlier, https://lisp.org gives a weird first impression
2020-07-29T22:01:53Z aeth: it doesn't help that paredit doesn't even work unless you (setq paredit-space-for-delimiter-predicates '((lambda (endp delimiter) nil))) because of the incorrect personal tastes of whoever happens to maintain paredit
2020-07-29T22:01:56Z fsmunoz joined #lisp
2020-07-29T22:01:58Z phoe goes to sleep to think about all that
2020-07-29T22:01:59Z mfiano: stylewarning's real world opinions are shared by me for sure. It's nice he was able to describe so concisely what I have been trying to for such a long time
2020-07-29T22:02:14Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-29T22:02:16Z aeth: defaults being trash isn't just a thing in the Lisp ecosystem, it's a thing in the entire Unix one
2020-07-29T22:02:40Z fsmunoz: greetings
2020-07-29T22:02:54Z gaa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-29T22:02:59Z bitmapper: stylewarning: cursive is just an intellij plugin
2020-07-29T22:03:11Z gaa joined #lisp
2020-07-29T22:03:18Z bitmapper: however, i think a lisp editor using MPS would be very interesting
2020-07-29T22:04:04Z MetaYan: MPS?
2020-07-29T22:04:31Z bitmapper: most people joke about it being a terrible form of metaprogramming
2020-07-29T22:04:34Z bitmapper: when it isn't really that
2020-07-29T22:04:46Z bitmapper: it's an ide for making ides based on structural/projectional editing
2020-07-29T22:05:09Z MetaYan: An IDE for making IDEs sounds fun.
2020-07-29T22:05:12Z stylewarning: The meager good news is that this is a solvable problem and has been solved many times in history. The only thing stopping it from happening is the existence of exactly one motivated and talented hacker.
2020-07-29T22:05:44Z bitmapper: it is actually good fun
2020-07-29T22:05:45Z mrcom: Emacs UX is... jaw-droppingly bad. Common things are not simple. Obscure things are short key sequences (^h ^o -- Why do I need a key sequence bound to "describe distribution"?)
2020-07-29T22:06:18Z aeth: Because GNU is a religion
2020-07-29T22:06:21Z bitmapper: thankfully you don't need to use java very often
2020-07-29T22:06:34Z bitmapper: and when you do, it's a version of java that they made a little more enjoyable to write
2020-07-29T22:06:43Z bitmapper: also, like, structural java editor
2020-07-29T22:06:45Z aeth: to be fair though C-h is help
2020-07-29T22:07:44Z mrcom: However--Emacs + packages is zeroed in on some things that IDEs don't think about.
2020-07-29T22:08:13Z gaa quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50))
2020-07-29T22:08:24Z mrcom: e.g., paredit barf.
2020-07-29T22:08:27Z bitmapper: http://0x0.st/ix1Z.png
2020-07-29T22:08:49Z fsmunoz: For a moment I was thinking of a Java editor based on Lévi-Strauss and Lancan. And it sort of made sense tbh.
2020-07-29T22:08:52Z aeth: Emacs's C-h isn't too different from Alt+h in, say, Firefox, except there, you're bringing up the menu bar so you can actually see what your options are if you don't know them ahead of time without having to C-h ?
2020-07-29T22:09:27Z aeth: It would be interesting to have a visual exploration of keyboard shortcuts throughout the entire system in a CL Emacs
2020-07-29T22:09:37Z mrcom: So *why* is Emacs so entrenched in Lisp development?
2020-07-29T22:09:52Z Josh_2: bitmapper: what on earth is that?
2020-07-29T22:09:58Z bitmapper: java
2020-07-29T22:10:00Z mrcom: I think it gets back to the problem space.
2020-07-29T22:10:11Z Josh_2: the horror
2020-07-29T22:10:23Z aeth: Emacs Lisp is close enough to Common Lisp that Common Lispers don't mind writing it as much as, say, Java or Perl
2020-07-29T22:10:34Z mrcom: Coding in Lisp isn't about renaming variables.
2020-07-29T22:10:45Z mrcom: Or changing data types.
2020-07-29T22:11:20Z mrcom: It's dealing with more complex algorithms than is typical in large-scale projects.
2020-07-29T22:11:21Z MetaYan: One thing that speaks against using Emacs for Common Lisp is that it's referring to the latter as "Inferior Lisp". Just that should be a warning.
2020-07-29T22:11:35Z mrcom: And it's hard to have an IDE help you with that kind of editing.
2020-07-29T22:11:55Z Josh_2: lul
2020-07-29T22:11:56Z Harag: I dont think its just editor and tooling, last year or the year before when I did some react-native work the installation and ide support was so bad I ended up setting up emacs to with linter etc to be able to work
2020-07-29T22:12:18Z Harag: and thousands loved dived right into react
2020-07-29T22:12:22Z Josh_2: So if you change it to "Superior Lisp" it's fine??
2020-07-29T22:13:10Z MetaYan: Well, I'm using it. Configured by hand, but also as Portacle.
2020-07-29T22:15:14Z mrcom: More popular languages are... algebra? Lisp is topology.
2020-07-29T22:15:41Z MetaYan: Josh_2: At least a bit better. Because i's something that's visible from the start and influencing on a subtle level.
2020-07-29T22:16:19Z MetaYan: Josh_2: And doesn't have to be "Superior". Just "Lisp" is fine
2020-07-29T22:17:51Z aeth: Even a CL Emacs would have to have an inferior-lisp because (1) you might be developing in a different CL than you are using for the editor, (2) the editor might be under /usr/bin/ or /usr/local/bin/ instead of $HOME, and (3) sometimes you just mess things up so badly that M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp is the fastest solution and it's nice not to have to restart the editor, too
2020-07-29T22:18:23Z aeth: And I personally try to remember to always restart the inferior Lisp before pushing commits just in case there's a weird stale state bug, like e.g. renaming a function, but still calling the old name somewhere in my code
2020-07-29T22:19:33Z aeth: plus, you'd waste at most about 100 MB in RAM and RAM's cheap
2020-07-29T22:19:37Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-29T22:19:47Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-29T22:20:20Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T22:22:40Z aeth: (I guess #2 is just #1, but using different versions of the same CL implementation instead of different distinct CL implementations)
2020-07-29T22:24:03Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-29T22:25:42Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-29T22:26:56Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-29T22:26:56Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-29T22:26:56Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-29T22:32:05Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T22:33:23Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T22:39:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T22:41:14Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-29T22:42:23Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-29T22:45:54Z diamondbond quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-29T22:47:32Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T22:48:14Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-29T22:50:57Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-29T22:52:24Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:05:03Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-29T23:07:35Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:15:54Z scymtym: Josh_2: for updating a pane periodically, look at the examples/graph-toy.lisp demo. for a non-timing based source of updates (potentially in a different thread), define a custom event type, submit events from the other thread and handle them by redisplaying or repaint (whichever is appropriate in your case)
2020-07-29T23:18:42Z Josh_2: I will take a look at that thanks
2020-07-29T23:28:37Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T23:28:50Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:29:08Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:30:28Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-29T23:31:02Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:34:22Z cosimone_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-29T23:36:04Z stylewarning: These comparisons to algebra and topology are triggering
2020-07-29T23:39:57Z aadbe joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:41:05Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T23:42:05Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:44:25Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:45:13Z luckless joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:45:30Z luna_is_here_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T23:45:47Z aadbe quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-29T23:48:30Z sympt_ joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:50:59Z sympt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-29T23:51:34Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T23:52:12Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-29T23:58:52Z diamondbond quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-29T23:59:37Z OMGOMG quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T00:01:08Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-30T00:03:32Z fsmunoz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T00:06:27Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-30T00:06:48Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-30T00:10:56Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T00:26:38Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-30T00:28:24Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-30T00:37:19Z caltelt joined #lisp
2020-07-30T00:42:30Z cjb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T00:54:12Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-30T01:00:18Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-30T01:00:54Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T01:01:16Z mfiano: Hello all. Someone knowledgeable enough with the spec relating to simple-array's care to answer some questions. I'm digging myself a hole here. :)
2020-07-30T01:16:32Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T01:17:45Z kinope: I think personal bias is a stronger reason for the popularity of some languages over others. Technical merits, or perceived subjective lack of, are just what one uses to convince themselves that what they feel is correct. We are all subject to this to some degree.
2020-07-30T01:19:01Z dominic34 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T01:20:43Z luckless quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T01:21:58Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T01:22:46Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T01:22:52Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T01:23:24Z luckless joined #lisp
2020-07-30T01:25:26Z kinope: For instance, younger developers age 10-25? are more interested in new and exiting developments, it plays into their stronger need at that age to be a part of something big and impactful. There is no excitement in technology that was born decades and decades ago.
2020-07-30T01:25:41Z ralt quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-30T01:31:16Z kinope: Combine that with a disregard for philosophy, history and it's not hard to see why things are the way they are.
2020-07-30T01:37:25Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T01:37:38Z Blukunfando: But if you force people to study philosophy and history, they’ll despise them even more.
2020-07-30T01:39:58Z theseb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T01:40:18Z mr_yogurt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T01:42:54Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-30T01:43:05Z kinope: I agree forcing it on people is not a good solution.
2020-07-30T01:45:27Z kinope: The value of it needs to be seen, not given. That takes life experience; maturity, and time.
2020-07-30T01:46:02Z kinope: Just to be clear I'm not one that sees a problem with the way things are.
2020-07-30T01:47:42Z kinope: Add knowledge to the above prerequisites
2020-07-30T01:48:36Z Bike: mfiano: you should just ask your questions so someone knowledgeable can see them (possibly forty some minutes later) (hypothetically). assuming you haven't worked it out by now.
2020-07-30T01:50:31Z MetaYan: kinope: Well said about the value.
2020-07-30T01:50:55Z mfiano: Yes, sorry, it turns out I rubber ducked my way out of it while typing out my questions.
2020-07-30T01:53:35Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-30T01:58:46Z Bike: ah, good
2020-07-30T02:01:43Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-30T02:02:28Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-30T02:02:29Z X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
2020-07-30T02:04:45Z mr_yogurt joined #lisp
2020-07-30T02:10:00Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T02:11:56Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-30T02:12:07Z aeth: kinope: But SBCL 2 is NEW™, now with more parentheses!
2020-07-30T02:12:35Z jesse1010 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-30T02:15:09Z aeth: Oh, eww, nevermind, SBCL 2 is from (one of the last days of) 2019 so it's already old
2020-07-30T02:24:10Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T02:25:27Z terpri_ is now known as terpri
2020-07-30T02:37:32Z gaqwas quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T02:38:16Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T02:44:55Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-30T02:46:25Z caltelt quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T02:49:33Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-30T02:57:58Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T03:02:06Z Alfr_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T03:04:38Z Alfr quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-30T03:08:24Z Bike quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-30T03:15:46Z drmeister: Hi - are there any common lisp pretty printers for source code outside of the one in slime?
2020-07-30T03:15:59Z drmeister: Looking for common lisp pretty printer gets you the usual suspects.
2020-07-30T03:16:35Z drmeister: We need to indent code in jupyter notebooks - so we need a source formatter implemented in Common Lisp.
2020-07-30T03:24:45Z mfiano: drmeister: Only thing I'm aware of is the ident module of the Lem editor, but I have no idea if it will meet your needs.
2020-07-30T03:28:19Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T03:31:16Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2020-07-30T03:33:02Z elxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-30T03:41:54Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T03:43:29Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-30T03:48:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-30T03:48:22Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T03:49:16Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-30T03:57:11Z beach: stylewarning: I think your point about education is the more significant one, but some of us are working to fix the tooling problem.  We have several components, but some crucial ones are missing and some are incomplete.  And we don't have a strategy for integrating everything yet. If you want to know more, let me know.
2020-07-30T04:05:58Z beach: stylewarning: My motivation for working on the tooling problem is not to attract more people of the kind that would be attracted by something like Cursive, though.  My motivation is that our tooling is not great for experienced developers.
2020-07-30T04:20:53Z shidima joined #lisp
2020-07-30T04:22:04Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-30T04:27:17Z drmeister: mfiano: Thank you
2020-07-30T04:28:25Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T04:29:00Z beach: drmeister: Do you really mean "pretty printer"?
2020-07-30T04:29:27Z beach: What SLIME does is just indentation.  It does not introduce line breaks, the way a pretty printer would.
2020-07-30T04:29:38Z drmeister: Ah
2020-07-30T04:29:45Z drmeister: Yeah - indentation.
2020-07-30T04:30:13Z lucasb quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-30T04:30:20Z beach: This is a problem I have been struggling with for Second Climacs.
2020-07-30T04:30:50Z drmeister: yitzi in #clasp has developed one.
2020-07-30T04:30:54Z beach: It is one of those things that are straightforward but messy.
2020-07-30T04:31:11Z beach: Oh?
2020-07-30T04:31:22Z drmeister: I was looking to see if there were any others that were more developed.
2020-07-30T04:31:25Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-30T04:31:30Z beach: I see.
2020-07-30T04:31:40Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-30T04:31:41Z drmeister: His might be better than anything else out there.
2020-07-30T04:32:16Z beach: So what are the shortcomings?
2020-07-30T04:33:27Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T04:45:53Z akoana quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-30T04:51:32Z oxum joined #lisp
2020-07-30T04:53:58Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-30T05:03:10Z cosimone_ quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-30T05:03:16Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-30T05:03:36Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-30T05:08:14Z femi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T05:10:57Z ccl-logbot joined #lisp
2020-07-30T05:10:57Z 
2020-07-30T05:10:57Z names: ccl-logbot femi narimiran cosimone oxum karlosz shifty seok shidima Lord_of_Life elxbarbosa Alfr_ gaqwas MindForeverVoyag mr_yogurt X-Scale space_otter luckless dominic34 terpri cjb Oladon sympt_ luna_is_here contrapunctus Harag zigpaw nirved _whitelogger xrash OpenZen rwcom3417491164 jeosol niceplace Fare jw4 bhartrihari shrysr Josh_2 retropikzel mrcom edgar-rft lavaflow v88m remexre Codaraxis mokulus arbv jonatack justache notzmv madand bsd4me jackdaniel
2020-07-30T05:10:57Z names: Necktwi_ himmAllRight17 cairn hiroaki bacterio nydel sm2n bitmapper flazh madage Posterdati join_subline Misha_B frgo_ mankaev vaporatorius CrazyEddy liamz[m] deselby fountainpen[m] LdBeth unl0ckd MrtnDk[m] katco fwoaroof[m] gaqwas[m] camlriot42 kinope kelamir[m] userself infra_red[m] even4void[m] sammich stux|RC Gnuxie[m] terrorjack cross yang shymega selwyn banjiewen asedeno ski gendl fowlduck chewbranca parisienne___ billstclair drmeister johs mgsk
2020-07-30T05:10:57Z names: saturn2 physpi _jrjsmrtn Ekho quazimodo borei equwal lottaquestions_ nckx nullheroes dilated_dinosaur Jesin gabiruh yonkunas epony minerjoe nmg_ Bourne msk froggey aeth sjl Kaisyu7 igemnace cg505 XachX mpontillo elflng MightyJoe leo_song FennecCode lad aindilis Aurora_v_kosmose jprajzne jello_pudding Archenoth Blukunfando zaquest housel voidlily chosenone ft ineiros ravndal theBlackDragon shinohai add^_ gigetoo drot heredoc brettgilio jackhill whiteline
2020-07-30T05:10:57Z names: scymtym minion specbot devrtz dddddd red-dot srji nitrix l1x jsatk stylewarning gaze__ p_l conjunctive CEnnis91 gjnoonan Firedancer_ vsync dlowe mbrumlow sukaeto vhost- akkad pent jurov travv0 funnel hvxgr ssake chrpape antoszka SumoSud0- Odin- gingerale beaky otwieracz creat ioa ecraven Yardanico HiRE jmercouris rvirding sgithens jasom tfb splittist easye seisatsu thonkpod beach nopf esotericalgo lieven z0d fiddlerwoaroof tomaw natj212 azrazalea ck_
2020-07-30T05:10:57Z names: tessier idxu null_ptr malm phadthai alandipert xi tychoish [ davsebamse hhdave |3b| swflint zagura guaqua bonz060 gabot AdmiralBumbleBee loke bkst ntr Guest90000 aap jbgg_ vert2_ SAL9000 solrize_ pok gko sbryant MetaYan Fade tephra ramus cyberlard drewc mathrick Colleen samebchase borodust fouric midre abbe mfiano hydan jerme_ z3t0 spacebat2 kini jfb4 GreaseMonkey lowryder trittweiler brass rumpelszn Grue`` Demosthenex cmatei ult cybercafe Ziemas Mandus
2020-07-30T05:10:57Z names: eagleflo hjudt dim cods justinmcp emacsomancer dale knobo cpt_nemo Kaisyu lispyone_ jlpeters HDurer mgr_ xristos larme interruptinuse spal phoe kim\ eschatologist rabuf felideon CommanderViral hiredman jdz grobe0ba xlei _death mrSpec White_Flame mtd r3x5- astronavt [df] payphone kilimanjaro yottabyte markasoftware rme avicenna winny snits cpape lukego dnm lonjil dxtr grumble Grauwolf matijja Inoperable Ankhers penguwin Robdgreat kingcons kbtr_ cdegroot mood
2020-07-30T05:10:57Z names: wigust mjl ffwacom DGASAU RagnarDanneskjol glamas jibanes troydm Blkt @fe[nl]ix rixard_ logicmoo em-bee getha catern ark dyelar nullman moon-child flip214 sveit simplegauss Lord_Nightmare kapil_ d4ryus kopiyka lansiir Tordek thecoffemaker zge stepnem joast Kabriel jgkamat dvdmuckle cranes fengshaun luis Balooga bytesighs copec SomeB stux|RC-only APic vegai Khisanth Xach ChoHag nightfly_ Nikotiini jxy ozzloy trn c_nix entel q-u-a-n2 zymurgy xantoz shenghi
2020-07-30T05:10:57Z names: datajerk wooden micro narendraj9 mgsk- shka_ eta hdasch TMA
2020-07-30T05:11:10Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-30T05:20:44Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-30T05:26:24Z vutral joined #lisp
2020-07-30T05:41:50Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T05:45:40Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-30T05:48:42Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T05:49:17Z elxbarbosa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-30T05:56:06Z lukego: Vecto is cool :)
2020-07-30T05:57:27Z zmyrgel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:00:49Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-30T06:03:42Z bsd4me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T06:06:33Z Oladon1 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:08:58Z Oladon quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T06:10:54Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:12:09Z _Posterdati_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:14:37Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T06:15:28Z treflip joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:19:05Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T06:28:09Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:31:33Z frgo joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:34:24Z frgo_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T06:36:00Z remexre quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-30T06:36:03Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-30T06:36:15Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:36:37Z remexre joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:36:39Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:36:46Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-30T06:37:01Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:37:55Z _Posterdati_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-30T06:38:15Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:42:17Z enrioog joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:43:08Z enrio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T06:43:20Z lookasas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T06:44:10Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-30T06:48:10Z lookasas quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T06:54:38Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T06:59:53Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-30T07:13:41Z nirved quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T07:14:45Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-30T07:17:49Z Krystof joined #lisp
2020-07-30T07:18:05Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T07:18:59Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-30T07:19:35Z liberliver1 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T07:20:55Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-30T07:21:55Z liberliver1 is now known as liberliver
2020-07-30T07:27:34Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T07:27:44Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T07:30:37Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-30T07:30:41Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-30T07:31:32Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-30T07:33:07Z SebastianM joined #lisp
2020-07-30T07:35:38Z SebastianM: Hey guys is there a way see the list of all symbols available in eg sbcl from within the repl?
2020-07-30T07:39:02Z beach: clhs do-all-symbols
2020-07-30T07:39:02Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_sym.htm
2020-07-30T07:39:10Z phoe: SebastianM: yes, but why would you want to do that?
2020-07-30T07:39:16Z phoe: that's a ton of symbols
2020-07-30T07:39:16Z White_Flame: you can LIST-ALL-PACKAGES, then DO-ALL-SYMBOLS within each package
2020-07-30T07:39:27Z beach: White_Flame: ?
2020-07-30T07:39:39Z beach: Do all symbols go through every package.
2020-07-30T07:39:44Z White_Flame: yes, nevermind :)
2020-07-30T07:39:44Z phoe: White_Flame: you mean DO-SYMBOLS within each package
2020-07-30T07:39:48Z phoe: but what beach said
2020-07-30T07:39:56Z SebastianM: for handy reference inthe repl
2020-07-30T07:40:08Z phoe: that's going to spam a pretty big list
2020-07-30T07:40:11Z beach: SebastianM: It will be pretty useless.
2020-07-30T07:40:18Z beach: There will be thousands of them.
2020-07-30T07:40:35Z White_Flame: mine has 39,229
2020-07-30T07:40:43Z phoe: (length (let (x) (do-all-symbols (s) (push s x)) x)) ;=> 35181 on my Lisp
2020-07-30T07:40:44Z beach: Yeah, not surprised.
2020-07-30T07:40:51Z SebastianM: thousands? i never thought about it...
2020-07-30T07:40:53Z phoe: that's not a handy reference by my standards
2020-07-30T07:40:55Z SebastianM: omg
2020-07-30T07:40:59Z phoe: this includes all the internal symbols too
2020-07-30T07:41:06Z beach: phoe: There might be duplicates.
2020-07-30T07:41:13Z phoe: that too
2020-07-30T07:41:20Z beach: So you need to use pushnew.
2020-07-30T07:41:32Z White_Flame: hitting Tab twice in slime can also bring up whatever it thinks is visible/possible
2020-07-30T07:41:33Z phoe: (length (let (x) (do-all-symbols (s) (push s x)) (remove-duplicates x))) ;=> 33179
2020-07-30T07:41:36Z White_Flame: at the repl
2020-07-30T07:41:47Z beach: phoe: Much better.
2020-07-30T07:41:54Z phoe: but not much smaller
2020-07-30T07:41:56Z White_Flame: oh, just once
2020-07-30T07:42:00Z beach: SebastianM: What did you expect?
2020-07-30T07:42:27Z beach: SebastianM: Every time you type a variable, like x in your code, a new symbol is created.
2020-07-30T07:42:52Z SebastianM: er something like with rebol's ?
2020-07-30T07:43:00Z beach: ... or at least the first time it is encountered.
2020-07-30T07:43:15Z beach: SebastianM: You can't assume that people here know Rebol.
2020-07-30T07:43:38Z beach: SebastianM: You need to explain what it is that you would like to see.
2020-07-30T07:44:02Z SebastianM: aha, well it seems like i'm interest in list of functions
2020-07-30T07:44:12Z beach: That's very different.
2020-07-30T07:44:15Z SebastianM: sorry for missunderstanding
2020-07-30T07:45:01Z beach: Then, you do the same thing, but you check whether each symbol has an FDEFINITION.  And don't forget to check `(SETF ,symbol) as well.
2020-07-30T07:45:30Z beach: That list is going to be huge as well though.
2020-07-30T07:45:40Z phoe: (let (x) (do-external-symbols (s :cl) (when (fboundp s) (pushnew s x))) x) ;=> list of length 752
2020-07-30T07:45:43Z phoe: without SETF functions
2020-07-30T07:46:03Z beach: That's just the CL package.
2020-07-30T07:46:27Z beach: What if you do DO-ALL-SYMBOLS?
2020-07-30T07:46:31Z phoe: yes, I assume SebastianM knows which package to grab the list of all functions from
2020-07-30T07:46:43Z beach: I wouldn't count on that.
2020-07-30T07:46:48Z phoe: otherwise it's going to be just as unmanageable as the list of all symbols, even if somewhat smaller
2020-07-30T07:47:05Z phoe: (length (let (x) (do-all-symbols (s :cl) (when (fboundp s) (pushnew s x))) x)) ;=> 13557
2020-07-30T07:47:25Z phoe: ;; the :cl there is redundant
2020-07-30T07:47:28Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T07:48:19Z beach: Yeah, that's more like it.  I get a few more, because I have SICL loaded. :)
2020-07-30T07:48:28Z SebastianM: hmm a lot of stuff to digest
2020-07-30T07:48:56Z beach: SebastianM: You wouldn't want to try to digest such a list.
2020-07-30T07:49:11Z beach: It contains all the functions of the SBCL compiler, the code generator, etc.
2020-07-30T07:49:16Z SebastianM: to digest be me
2020-07-30T07:50:43Z SebastianM: thanks for the code
2020-07-30T07:50:57Z SebastianM quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-30T07:52:06Z beach: Wow, strange.
2020-07-30T07:54:47Z enrioog quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-30T07:56:24Z flip214: phoe: mfiano: Alfr_: thanks for the additional discussion... I'd vote for keeping the documentation and fixing ITERATE to _not_ overload COUNT.
2020-07-30T07:56:28Z mokulus quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-30T07:56:43Z phoe: flip214: +1
2020-07-30T07:56:44Z flip214: Or is it possible to just switch to dwim.hu.iterate? Ain't that a clean(er) rewrite with the same features?
2020-07-30T07:57:27Z Codaraxis_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T07:57:56Z Alfr_: I looked at it once and iirc it draws in quite some other hu.dwim bits.
2020-07-30T07:59:32Z flip214: well, perhaps we need some annotation for libraries which symbols could be removed on tree-shaking, ie. when an image is built that has no need for further compilation (so no macros etc.)
2020-07-30T07:59:44Z flip214: then additional stuff shouldn't matter much
2020-07-30T08:00:46Z Codaraxis quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T08:00:46Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T08:02:53Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:05:31Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:11:13Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T08:15:54Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:16:35Z markasoftware: In `(,(form-with-side-effects) ,(more-side-effects)) are the forms guaranteed to execute in order?
2020-07-30T08:17:42Z beach: That ought to be the case, yes.
2020-07-30T08:17:46Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T08:18:26Z beach: That one should reduce to (list (form-with-side-effects) (more-side-effects)) or something similar.
2020-07-30T08:18:37Z Oladon1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-30T08:18:58Z ebzzry quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T08:19:20Z markasoftware: right, it's supposed to be equivalent to a call to list. Thanks!
2020-07-30T08:19:31Z beach: Sure.
2020-07-30T08:19:50Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:25:18Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:34:43Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T08:35:00Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:38:05Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-30T08:40:22Z rogersm_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:40:55Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:40:55Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-30T08:40:55Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:43:03Z rogersm quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-30T08:44:48Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:50:34Z cjb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-07-30T08:52:11Z enrio quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T08:53:06Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:53:33Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-30T08:54:36Z treflip quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T08:54:59Z treflip joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:09:01Z rogersm_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T09:09:27Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:12:03Z rogersm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T09:12:23Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:15:25Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T09:15:58Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:18:53Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:25:48Z vutral quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-30T09:25:55Z zmyrgel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T09:26:30Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-30T09:26:43Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:26:48Z diamondbond quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T09:27:19Z treflip quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-30T09:29:15Z seok quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-30T09:29:18Z treflip joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:34:59Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:36:11Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T09:37:23Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T09:38:14Z lukego: Xach: Maybe I ask you a Vecto question? I'd like to use it for CAD drawing and just making sure I'm not barking up the wrong tree. I want to plot using non-pixel units, e.g. micro-meters, and it seems like I can just use (SCALE X Y) to switch units e.g. to plot in micrometers and have value values translated to (say) one pixel per 0.1mm. Is that all fine and good? Or is that a really bad idea for some reason?
2020-07-30T09:39:32Z diamondbond joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:40:17Z Necktwi_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T09:46:18Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-30T09:51:41Z lukego: (Somehow it took me a while to shake my initial misapprehension that pixel coordinates would have to be integers. Guess I'm just not used to fractional pixels. But didn't make sense when thinking about how rasterization works and looking closer at the examples to notice the trig.)
2020-07-30T09:54:30Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-30T09:54:30Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T09:54:48Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:55:14Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:56:56Z _jrjsmrtn quit (Quit: Bye !)
2020-07-30T09:58:06Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-30T09:58:18Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-30T09:58:37Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T10:00:30Z __jrjsmrtn__ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:01:57Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:03:27Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-30T10:03:38Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:05:13Z jmercouris: is there a way DURING runtime to make class A inherit from class B?
2020-07-30T10:05:28Z jmercouris: without having a forward declaration as explained  yesterday by phoe
2020-07-30T10:05:40Z lukego: Thinking about how to extend SLIME so that Lisp can return richer presentations e.g. Emacs text properties in strings and images with imagemaps defining actions. Maybe Lisp would not send RESULT = string but rather RESULT = string | (text-properties ALIST RESULT) | (png-image DATA IMAGEMAP). So you can return a mix of strings and images, with arbitrarily nested text properties over both
2020-07-30T10:05:55Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:06:11Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T10:11:27Z jmercouris: (defclass fish () ()) (defclass salmon () ())
2020-07-30T10:11:36Z jmercouris: now how can I make (make-instance 'fish) make a salmon instead?
2020-07-30T10:11:55Z shka_: jmercouris: you redefine class
2020-07-30T10:12:06Z shka_: but no
2020-07-30T10:12:10Z shka_: i have a better idea
2020-07-30T10:12:27Z shka_: (defgeneric make-animal (class &rest initargs))
2020-07-30T10:12:30Z shka_: and then
2020-07-30T10:12:47Z shka_: (defmethod make-animal ((class (eql 'fish)) &rest initargs)...
2020-07-30T10:12:55Z shka_: jmercouris: sounds fine?
2020-07-30T10:12:59Z jmercouris: that does work...
2020-07-30T10:13:02Z jmercouris: technically, y es
2020-07-30T10:13:10Z jmercouris: but I want to somehow change the name of the class
2020-07-30T10:13:15Z jmercouris: so that it works as I have outlined
2020-07-30T10:13:18Z shka_: the best kind of yes
2020-07-30T10:13:22Z jmercouris: lol
2020-07-30T10:13:41Z jmercouris: I don't want to replace my make-instance 'xyz with make-animal, as it is meant to be consumed by users other than me
2020-07-30T10:13:53Z jmercouris: and they may not think oh, I need to use the make-animal method rather than make-instance
2020-07-30T10:14:19Z shka_: well, i would rather do this than play with MOP
2020-07-30T10:14:23Z luckless quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T10:14:38Z shka_: also, you can keep dictionary of class aliases
2020-07-30T10:14:48Z jmercouris: I don't know how that would help me
2020-07-30T10:14:50Z splittist: jmercouris: but you're already lying to them about the class name?
2020-07-30T10:15:03Z jmercouris: well, kind of yes
2020-07-30T10:15:03Z shka_: agreed
2020-07-30T10:15:16Z jmercouris: It is an abstraction that they need not know
2020-07-30T10:15:25Z jmercouris: but the class they are actually instantiating is one that they extend
2020-07-30T10:15:43Z shka_: i found that trying to force lisp not behave as lisp is generally speaking a bad idea
2020-07-30T10:15:48Z luckless joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:16:01Z shka_: don't change: extend
2020-07-30T10:16:06Z jackdaniel: sounds complicated, I'm not sure if anyone will appreciate that you make something what looks like a fish behave like a dog
2020-07-30T10:16:07Z jmercouris: what we currently do is (make-instance *class-of*) or whatever
2020-07-30T10:16:21Z jmercouris: where *class-of* points to whatever class we like
2020-07-30T10:16:53Z jackdaniel: (like shadowing #'+ to work like #'-
2020-07-30T10:16:54Z jackdaniel: )
2020-07-30T10:17:15Z shka_: jmercouris: that does not sound like a bad idea honestly
2020-07-30T10:17:42Z shka_: well, you CAN shadow make-instance to work as you want to
2020-07-30T10:17:49Z jmercouris: I don't want to shadow make-instance
2020-07-30T10:17:54Z jmercouris: I just want to rename my class during runtime
2020-07-30T10:18:06Z jmercouris: I'm okay with clobbering the salmon class or whatever class
2020-07-30T10:18:22Z shka_: eh, ok
2020-07-30T10:18:24Z splittist: I've always thought of make-instance as pretty low-level, and make-FOO as the (an?) appropriate 'user' inteface
2020-07-30T10:18:29Z splittist: *interface, even
2020-07-30T10:18:43Z shka_: splittist: that's my impression as well
2020-07-30T10:18:53Z shka_: jmercouris: ok, in that case (setf find-class)
2020-07-30T10:19:06Z jmercouris: setf find-class will work?
2020-07-30T10:19:13Z jackdaniel: (setf (find-class 'bar) (find-class 'foobar) )
2020-07-30T10:19:14Z shka_: i think so
2020-07-30T10:19:19Z shka_: jackdaniel: thanks
2020-07-30T10:19:19Z jackdaniel: if you want only to rename it
2020-07-30T10:19:26Z jmercouris: yes, I only wish to rename it
2020-07-30T10:19:29Z jmercouris: thanks for the help
2020-07-30T10:19:34Z jmercouris: I will let you know if this backfires on me :-D
2020-07-30T10:19:46Z shka_: i hope not, but i expect it :P
2020-07-30T10:24:06Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:24:58Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:26:37Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T10:31:53Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:33:28Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:33:28Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2020-07-30T10:33:28Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:35:55Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-30T10:44:58Z beach` joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:47:22Z dmiles joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:48:54Z logicmoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T10:49:10Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-30T10:49:29Z beach quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-30T10:51:23Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T11:00:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T11:02:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:05:35Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:12:38Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T11:14:25Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:20:38Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T11:25:07Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T11:27:53Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-30T11:27:53Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T11:28:04Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:28:10Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:33:29Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-30T11:33:36Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:34:16Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T11:34:31Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:37:34Z treflip quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T11:37:56Z treflip joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:38:35Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:38:57Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T11:41:32Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T11:51:34Z jackdaniel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T11:55:54Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:55:54Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-30T11:55:54Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T11:57:23Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T11:59:09Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:00:05Z treflip quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T12:05:24Z beach` is now known as beach
2020-07-30T12:09:21Z ralt joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:13:20Z nirved quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T12:14:32Z beach: jmercouris: (defclass fish () ()) (defclass salmon () ()) (setf (find-class 'fish) (find-class 'salmon)) (make-instance 'fish)
2020-07-30T12:15:52Z beach: jmercouris: Renaming the class is an entirely different thing than what you initially said you want.
2020-07-30T12:17:47Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-30T12:18:16Z beach: Oh, jackdaniel already said that.  Sorry.
2020-07-30T12:18:31Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:24:05Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T12:24:41Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:26:52Z jackdaniel left #lisp
2020-07-30T12:28:53Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:37:02Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:37:04Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:42:32Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:42:32Z jackdaniel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T12:43:37Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:46:42Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T12:52:22Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:53:15Z igemnace quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-30T12:56:10Z _jrjsmrtn joined #lisp
2020-07-30T12:56:47Z Codaraxis_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T12:56:59Z __jrjsmrtn__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T12:58:55Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:02:05Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T13:05:27Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:07:17Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:07:44Z Codaraxis joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:08:45Z jackdaniel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T13:10:28Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:13:39Z luis: TIL ASDF loads a system and its dependencies using a single with-compilation-unit. That's unfortunate.
2020-07-30T13:15:44Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:16:10Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:17:18Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:17:18Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T13:19:06Z phoe: wait, *single* for everything?
2020-07-30T13:19:14Z phoe: for all dependencies?
2020-07-30T13:24:32Z vidak` joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:32:48Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:33:01Z treflip joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:33:33Z oxum quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-30T13:35:59Z mangul joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:36:38Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T13:39:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T13:56:45Z jackdaniel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T13:57:22Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T13:58:34Z jackdaniel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T13:59:55Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:03:07Z technobean joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:08:12Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:12:04Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:12:04Z jackdaniel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T14:13:21Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:19:16Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T14:20:39Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:20:39Z jackdaniel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T14:21:57Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:23:27Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:25:43Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T14:27:09Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:32:25Z jackdaniel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T14:33:48Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:38:11Z eta quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T14:38:21Z phoe: is that purposeful?
2020-07-30T14:44:03Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:48:52Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:49:02Z karlosz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T14:51:06Z eta joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:53:25Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:54:10Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:55:59Z zulu-inuoe joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:58:14Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T14:58:15Z jackdaniel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T14:58:58Z rippa joined #lisp
2020-07-30T14:59:54Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:04:07Z vgmind joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:06:57Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:07:44Z rogersm quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T15:09:57Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:10:16Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-30T15:11:43Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T15:12:20Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T15:13:08Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:13:26Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-30T15:13:44Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:14:13Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:17:57Z jackdaniel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T15:20:03Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:20:26Z jackdaniel quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T15:20:57Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:20:57Z jackdaniel quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T15:25:13Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:25:22Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T15:29:15Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:30:57Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-30T15:31:14Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:32:51Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-30T15:33:35Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:35:01Z mangul quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T15:35:37Z treflip quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-30T15:42:23Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:43:45Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T15:45:13Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-30T15:54:30Z grfn joined #lisp
2020-07-30T15:58:06Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:10:03Z lavaflow quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-30T16:10:10Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:12:45Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T16:14:31Z dominic35 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:15:28Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T16:15:28Z dominic35 is now known as dominic34
2020-07-30T16:16:19Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:17:40Z hdasch left #lisp
2020-07-30T16:17:40Z hdasch joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:23:42Z vgmind left #lisp
2020-07-30T16:24:54Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T16:26:41Z toorevitimirp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T16:27:19Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T16:29:59Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:30:36Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:32:14Z msk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T16:46:23Z gendl: luis: So, should it be one compilation unit per individual system?
2020-07-30T16:49:25Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:50:33Z abhixec joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:51:17Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-30T16:52:34Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:53:49Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T16:55:33Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-30T16:59:28Z msk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T16:59:52Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:02:37Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:04:16Z bsdhere joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:04:32Z msk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T17:05:26Z liberliver1 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:06:09Z johnweldon joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:10:40Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:11:35Z liberliver quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T17:11:36Z jw4 quit (Quit: tot siens)
2020-07-30T17:11:36Z bsd4me quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T17:11:36Z technobean quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T17:11:36Z liberliver1 is now known as liberliver
2020-07-30T17:12:28Z jariyah joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:13:16Z SenasOzys joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:15:38Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:18:59Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T17:23:26Z toorevitimirp joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:38:46Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:38:46Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-30T17:38:46Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:38:57Z dominic34 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T17:40:04Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T17:40:11Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T17:40:14Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:40:35Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:42:09Z heisig joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:42:39Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:42:52Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-30T17:43:47Z entel quit
2020-07-30T17:44:12Z entel joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:46:39Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T17:57:49Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:58:02Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-30T17:58:10Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T17:58:28Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-30T17:58:37Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T17:59:22Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T17:59:36Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:01:36Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T18:01:43Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:03:37Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T18:04:06Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T18:04:10Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:04:47Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T18:05:01Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:18:31Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-30T18:20:13Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-30T18:27:10Z toorevitimirp quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T18:27:20Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T18:27:29Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T18:30:26Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T18:30:44Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:33:46Z MindForeverVoyag joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:35:38Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:46:45Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T18:49:49Z retropikzel quit (Quit: retropikzel)
2020-07-30T18:50:49Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T18:53:34Z minion quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T18:53:34Z specbot quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T18:54:08Z heisig quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T18:56:05Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:56:45Z kaun_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:56:46Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:57:16Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-30T18:57:26Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-30T18:57:54Z kaun_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T18:57:57Z msk quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T18:58:32Z msk joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:05:07Z Oddity joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:14:45Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:14:45Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-30T19:14:45Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:16:30Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:19:51Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T19:20:14Z terpri joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:28:27Z Krystof quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T19:30:27Z Krystof joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:33:45Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:36:14Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T19:44:19Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:45:13Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:48:55Z Ven`` joined #lisp
2020-07-30T19:56:45Z johnweldon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T19:58:24Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T20:02:29Z nullheroes quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-30T20:05:59Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-07-30T20:07:18Z nullheroes joined #lisp
2020-07-30T20:25:32Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-30T20:29:26Z shidima quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T20:32:01Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T20:32:47Z bitmapper quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T20:33:01Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-30T20:33:44Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T20:35:44Z phoe: I guess so, yes
2020-07-30T20:35:47Z phoe: that would be my intuition
2020-07-30T20:36:13Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T20:39:03Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-30T20:39:40Z [ is now known as uplime
2020-07-30T20:40:04Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-30T20:40:24Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-30T20:40:26Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T20:41:46Z gaqwas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T20:42:08Z jariyah quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-30T20:50:11Z avalos joined #lisp
2020-07-30T20:55:07Z avalos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T20:56:58Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-30T20:57:58Z Ven`` quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-30T20:59:06Z join_subline quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-30T20:59:37Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-30T21:00:06Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:01:02Z avalos joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:01:21Z avalos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T21:01:23Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:02:04Z lavaflow quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T21:04:37Z avalos joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:04:52Z enrio quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T21:06:36Z avalos quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T21:06:39Z bsdhere quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T21:07:09Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:09:48Z Ven`` joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:10:34Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-30T21:15:13Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T21:18:10Z refpga quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-30T21:18:19Z refpga joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:18:33Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2020-07-30T21:20:43Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:23:27Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-30T21:24:52Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:30:03Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T21:32:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:35:41Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T21:40:34Z refpga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T21:41:37Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T21:47:58Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:48:24Z lavaflow quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-30T21:49:37Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T21:54:37Z lavaflow joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:55:09Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-30T21:59:51Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T22:00:00Z texno joined #lisp
2020-07-30T22:00:45Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T22:01:19Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-30T22:08:10Z markasoftware: how can i /safely/ read an integer from a string?
2020-07-30T22:09:01Z mfiano: Depends on your definition of safety I suppose.
2020-07-30T22:09:29Z phoe: markasoftware: what do you mean, safely
2020-07-30T22:09:39Z phoe: what do you consider a lack of safety
2020-07-30T22:09:42Z markasoftware: no arbitrary code execution with read time macros
2020-07-30T22:09:46Z phoe: PARSE-INTEGER
2020-07-30T22:09:51Z phoe: clhs parse-integer
2020-07-30T22:09:51Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_parse_.htm
2020-07-30T22:10:13Z markasoftware: oh that's nice
2020-07-30T22:10:16Z markasoftware: i got very hung up on read
2020-07-30T22:10:17Z markasoftware: thank you!
2020-07-30T22:17:01Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T22:17:05Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T22:17:46Z aeth: You can extend this past integers by handling before and after a / or before and after a . as special cases for rationals/floats. Full float syntax (e.g. 42d-32, 23e22, 4321f3, etc.) makes it a lot harder, though.
2020-07-30T22:18:27Z caltelt joined #lisp
2020-07-30T22:19:15Z aeth: Rationals would just divide one over the other, floats would divide the part after the . by one less than the length, e.g. (/ 123 (float 10f2)) gets you 0.123 as a single float.
2020-07-30T22:19:33Z aeth: s/one less than the length/10 to the power of one less than the length/
2020-07-30T22:19:34Z mfiano: Integers can have "." in them too
2020-07-30T22:20:05Z aeth: "12."?
2020-07-30T22:20:21Z phoe: yes
2020-07-30T22:20:44Z aeth: That's a special case you can handle. Or you can choose not to, since you're using your own reader, not READ
2020-07-30T22:21:57Z aeth: It's an interesting case of incompatibility between CL's reader and Scheme's, though, since in Scheme (although idk if it's standard, I'll have to check) that becomes "12.0". I really need to collect a list of incompatibilities somewhere... I've already forgotten quite a few.
2020-07-30T22:22:35Z aeth: This can become an issue if e.g. you wanted to specify a portable .sxp file format
2020-07-30T22:23:27Z mfiano: "N." is a useful way to get out of non-10 read base
2020-07-30T22:25:15Z aeth: I always use the "f0" suffix for floats because it's fairly common to have *read-default-float-format* as DOUBLE-FLOAT and I even do that sometimes when I'm using CL as a calculator, and it absolutely breaks everything.
2020-07-30T22:25:28Z aeth: But I don't think I'd write defensively for a different *read-base* because that's a whole other level of things breaking.
2020-07-30T22:25:35Z mfiano: (setf *read-base* 16) ... (setf *read-base* 10.)
2020-07-30T22:26:18Z aeth: Yes, inside that it might make sense.
2020-07-30T22:34:13Z nirved_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T22:35:06Z Ven`` quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-07-30T22:36:03Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T22:37:45Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T22:38:14Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-30T22:43:12Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-30T22:43:21Z MindForeverVoyag quit (Quit: MindForeverVoyag)
2020-07-30T22:45:14Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-30T22:47:02Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T22:56:35Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:00:11Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T23:01:46Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-30T23:02:11Z ft joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:05:17Z spal_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:06:38Z spal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T23:11:02Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:14:12Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:14:37Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-30T23:15:32Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-30T23:17:08Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T23:17:35Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:20:46Z madage quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-30T23:20:59Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-30T23:22:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:22:55Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-30T23:23:03Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:23:29Z spal joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:24:23Z spal_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-30T23:29:02Z madage joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:34:37Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-30T23:46:04Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:51:22Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:51:58Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-30T23:56:46Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-30T23:58:49Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-30T23:59:05Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T00:02:22Z X-Scale` joined #lisp
2020-07-31T00:03:43Z sm2n_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T00:04:05Z sm2n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T00:04:26Z SenasOzys quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T00:09:25Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-31T00:10:17Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T00:13:07Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T00:14:29Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T00:14:51Z terpri__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T00:15:13Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T00:15:18Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T00:15:27Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T00:24:30Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T00:27:33Z bsd4me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-31T00:36:56Z creat quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-07-31T00:38:11Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T00:38:14Z creat joined #lisp
2020-07-31T00:47:45Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T00:59:19Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-31T01:02:21Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-31T01:10:50Z hsaziz joined #lisp
2020-07-31T01:13:45Z karlosz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T01:16:26Z z3t0 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T01:16:38Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-31T01:21:04Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-31T01:22:32Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-31T01:23:25Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-31T01:25:22Z libertyprime quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T01:26:36Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-31T01:36:33Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T01:49:22Z igemnace joined #lisp
2020-07-31T01:51:40Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-31T01:59:18Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-31T02:04:32Z wxie quit (Quit: wxie)
2020-07-31T02:05:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-31T02:06:58Z sm2n_ is now known as sm2n
2020-07-31T02:08:33Z Lord_of_Life quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T02:11:22Z tychoish:  
2020-07-31T02:11:49Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2020-07-31T02:17:35Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-31T02:17:49Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-31T02:19:31Z Oddity quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-31T02:22:14Z cjb` joined #lisp
2020-07-31T02:22:28Z cjb quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2020-07-31T02:22:45Z satousan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T02:22:47Z cjb` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T02:25:35Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-31T02:27:59Z jeosol quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-07-31T02:31:46Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-31T02:32:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-31T02:33:59Z abhixec quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-31T02:36:21Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-31T02:37:55Z bsd4me joined #lisp
2020-07-31T02:42:37Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-31T02:46:08Z ralt quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-31T02:59:01Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T02:59:15Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-31T03:09:55Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-31T03:10:05Z torbo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T03:11:45Z cranes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T03:16:43Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-31T03:21:53Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-31T03:23:54Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-31T03:24:17Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-31T03:24:35Z satousan quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T03:25:14Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T03:28:05Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T03:30:19Z elxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-31T03:31:20Z elxbarbosa quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T03:31:24Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-31T03:34:36Z elxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-31T03:36:23Z beach:  Good morning everyone!
2020-07-31T03:37:47Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T03:38:30Z Bike quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-07-31T03:42:26Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T03:43:05Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-31T03:43:45Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T03:43:46Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-31T03:44:50Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T03:44:56Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T03:47:19Z edgar-rft: I'm zero.
2020-07-31T03:48:41Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-31T03:50:03Z beach: I'll include zeros too.
2020-07-31T03:51:00Z edgar-rft: It's all inclusive today.
2020-07-31T03:51:28Z beach: Yes, we are generous today.
2020-07-31T03:51:37Z cjb quit (Quit: brb)
2020-07-31T03:51:44Z edgar-rft: All you can eat.
2020-07-31T03:54:29Z cjb joined #lisp
2020-07-31T03:57:25Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T04:05:54Z caltelt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T04:13:19Z shidima joined #lisp
2020-07-31T04:14:19Z retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-31T04:15:24Z aeth: CL-USER> (zerop 'edgar-rft)
2020-07-31T04:15:25Z aeth: ; Evaluation aborted on #<TYPE-ERROR expected-type: NUMBER datum: EDGAR-RFT>.
2020-07-31T04:17:06Z cjb quit (Quit: 👋)
2020-07-31T04:29:37Z edgar-rft: (defvar edgar-rft 0), now try again
2020-07-31T04:32:28Z sm2n: CL-USER> (symbol-macrolet ((edgar-rft 0))
2020-07-31T04:32:34Z sm2n:            (zerop edgar-rft))
2020-07-31T04:32:40Z sm2n: T
2020-07-31T04:33:07Z beach: If y'all are bored, I can give you some SICL-related tasks to accomplish.
2020-07-31T04:34:57Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-31T04:36:08Z edgar-rft: Please wait some seconds, I'm still busy with answering your good morning message.
2020-07-31T04:36:32Z aeth: this is how you wind up with the Easter Egg (defconstant sicl::+edgar-rft+ 0)
2020-07-31T04:51:04Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T04:53:43Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-31T04:53:57Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-31T04:59:38Z korte joined #lisp
2020-07-31T05:00:18Z korte left #lisp
2020-07-31T05:03:37Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T05:06:11Z luna_is_here quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T05:06:59Z OpenZen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T05:08:17Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2020-07-31T05:25:23Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T05:26:38Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-31T05:28:55Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-31T05:29:05Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T05:29:17Z borei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T05:29:28Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2020-07-31T05:31:48Z zaquest joined #lisp
2020-07-31T05:32:49Z enrio joined #lisp
2020-07-31T05:33:54Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-31T05:34:59Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T05:47:55Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-31T05:48:31Z shka_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T05:50:11Z seok joined #lisp
2020-07-31T05:50:51Z Misha_B left #lisp
2020-07-31T05:53:01Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T05:55:54Z mrcom quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T06:00:00Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-31T06:00:11Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-31T06:01:37Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-31T06:07:12Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T06:11:15Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-31T06:13:11Z SenasOzys joined #lisp
2020-07-31T06:17:52Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T06:21:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T06:23:13Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-31T06:28:47Z mrcom joined #lisp
2020-07-31T06:35:24Z whiteline joined #lisp
2020-07-31T06:38:42Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T06:39:35Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-31T06:42:33Z Harag joined #lisp
2020-07-31T06:42:52Z Harag left #lisp
2020-07-31T06:46:08Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-31T06:50:27Z elxbarbosa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T06:54:58Z whiteline_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T06:55:28Z enrioog joined #lisp
2020-07-31T06:56:34Z whiteline quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T06:58:25Z enrio quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T07:02:02Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-31T07:02:43Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-31T07:07:49Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-31T07:12:21Z ljavorsk joined #lisp
2020-07-31T07:17:50Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2020-07-31T07:20:31Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-31T07:21:13Z ggole joined #lisp
2020-07-31T07:27:13Z rgherdt joined #lisp
2020-07-31T07:28:35Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-31T07:38:49Z seok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T07:43:22Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-31T07:49:04Z luna_is_here quit (Quit: luna_is_here)
2020-07-31T07:52:09Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-31T07:57:38Z luna_is_here quit (Quit: luna_is_here)
2020-07-31T08:01:09Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:08:14Z FennecCode quit (Quit: IRCNow and Forever!)
2020-07-31T08:08:19Z luna_is_here quit (Quit: luna_is_here)
2020-07-31T08:09:20Z FennecCode joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:14:06Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T08:16:28Z Codaraxis_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:17:53Z kaftejiman joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:18:28Z jeosol joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:19:25Z nanoz joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:20:11Z Codaraxis quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T08:20:17Z VincentVega joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:21:27Z VincentVega: Hey guys, a quick questions, multiple evaluation can't be a problem here, right?
2020-07-31T08:21:34Z VincentVega: (defmacro setf-when-nil (place value) `(unless ,place (setf ,place ,value)))
2020-07-31T08:22:06Z VincentVega: I am also wondering if this sort of stuff is already in some library...
2020-07-31T08:22:28Z enrioog quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-31T08:23:40Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:23:45Z mankaev quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T08:27:43Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:28:03Z rwcom34174911642 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:29:30Z rwcom3417491164 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T08:31:07Z beach: Yes, that's a problem of multiple evaluations.
2020-07-31T08:31:19Z beach: "stuff"?
2020-07-31T08:31:46Z beach: clhs get-setf-expansion
2020-07-31T08:31:46Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_get_se.htm
2020-07-31T08:31:56Z beach: That's what you typically use in those situations.
2020-07-31T08:32:49Z VincentVega: @beach yeah, I mean a utility library which would have macros like this
2020-07-31T08:33:12Z beach: There could be.  But then that would be a defect in such a library.
2020-07-31T08:33:39Z VincentVega: @beach get-setf-expansion? Hmm, ok, I will look into it
2020-07-31T08:33:42Z VincentVega: @beach right
2020-07-31T08:33:42Z beach: VincentVega: We don't use the @ convention on IRC.  Just type the nick followed by colon.  Your IRC client should complete for you.
2020-07-31T08:33:57Z VincentVega: beach: ok
2020-07-31T08:34:19Z VincentVega: beach: thanks!
2020-07-31T08:34:32Z beach: Anytime.
2020-07-31T08:36:16Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:37:22Z luna_is_here quit (Quit: luna_is_here)
2020-07-31T08:38:39Z Demosthenex: ugh. anyone seen a CL based terminal emulator? i'm trying to hack on an extension to urxvt and gawd perl is awful
2020-07-31T08:41:17Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:42:59Z beach: I believe jackdaniel was working on such a thing.
2020-07-31T08:43:05Z akronymus joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:43:11Z akronymus: Hello there.
2020-07-31T08:43:20Z beach: Hello akronymus.
2020-07-31T08:44:17Z akronymus: The more I start to grok lisp, the more I am loving it.
2020-07-31T08:44:27Z beach: Great!
2020-07-31T08:44:30Z phoe: akronymus: welcome to the club
2020-07-31T08:44:47Z akronymus: Altough, working on in c# at work. :(
2020-07-31T08:45:21Z akronymus: Maybe I can at least get them to use f# in a greenfield project.
2020-07-31T08:45:35Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:45:48Z akronymus: Hey there, luna.
2020-07-31T08:46:37Z beach: akronymus: If you start greeting people who did not utter anything, you will generate hundreds of greetings per hour, thereby adding lots of noise.
2020-07-31T08:46:46Z akronymus: Got it.
2020-07-31T08:46:48Z beach: akronymus: Many people just want to lurk.
2020-07-31T08:47:18Z akronymus: Sorry for that. I need to get used to IRC etiquette again.
2020-07-31T08:47:26Z beach: No problem.
2020-07-31T08:47:35Z beach: akronymus: So what are you using Common Lisp for?
2020-07-31T08:48:00Z akronymus: Still mostly learning.
2020-07-31T08:48:09Z beach: I see.
2020-07-31T08:48:13Z akronymus: Working my way through htdp atm.
2020-07-31T08:48:45Z nanoz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T08:48:47Z akronymus: Trees broke my brain at first.
2020-07-31T08:48:54Z beach: minion: What does htdp stand for?
2020-07-31T08:48:55Z minion: Hotly Tabacum Deprival Parceling
2020-07-31T08:49:01Z phoe: How To Design Programs
2020-07-31T08:49:02Z akronymus: How to design programs.
2020-07-31T08:49:06Z beach: Ah.
2020-07-31T08:49:07Z contrapunctus: ninjas
2020-07-31T08:49:07Z phoe: minion: bad bot
2020-07-31T08:49:09Z minion: bad bot: An error was encountered in lookup: Attempt to call an undefined alien function..
2020-07-31T08:49:14Z nanoz joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:49:17Z phoe: ...that worries me
2020-07-31T08:49:30Z akronymus: Somewhat similar to sicp, I've been told.
2020-07-31T08:49:38Z contrapunctus: minion: HTDP is How To Design Programs
2020-07-31T08:49:38Z minion: HTDP is How To Design Programs: An error was encountered in lookup: Attempt to call an undefined alien function..
2020-07-31T08:49:57Z phoe: minion: are you responding to everything with this alien function stuff
2020-07-31T08:49:57Z minion: are you responding to everything with this alien function stuff: An error was encountered in lookup: Attempt to call an undefined alien function..
2020-07-31T08:50:04Z phoe: minion: tell phoe about gentle
2020-07-31T08:50:04Z minion: phoe: direct your attention towards gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
2020-07-31T08:50:09Z beach: Oh, so it is Scheme rather than Common Lisp?
2020-07-31T08:50:12Z phoe thinks
2020-07-31T08:50:28Z akronymus: I did most stuff, besides the graphical in CL.
2020-07-31T08:51:03Z beach: I see.
2020-07-31T08:51:12Z akronymus: Altough, I think I implemented half on scheme in CL.
2020-07-31T08:51:21Z akronymus: (Mostly through copy pasting though)
2020-07-31T08:51:51Z luna_is_here quit (Quit: luna_is_here)
2020-07-31T08:51:53Z phoe files a minion issue
2020-07-31T08:52:13Z beach: It might be time to replace minion.
2020-07-31T08:52:31Z beach: I think the person maintaining the code is no longer present here.
2020-07-31T08:52:39Z akronymus: With a bot written in lisp?
2020-07-31T08:52:52Z beach: minion is already written in Lisp.
2020-07-31T08:52:56Z beach: minion: Lisp?
2020-07-31T08:52:56Z minion: Lisp: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. <http://pagesperso-systeme.lip6.fr/Christian.Queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html>
2020-07-31T08:52:57Z akronymus: Oh awesome.
2020-07-31T08:53:07Z beach: Bah.
2020-07-31T08:53:16Z beach: minion: What are you written in?
2020-07-31T08:53:16Z minion: What are you written in: An error was encountered in lookup: Attempt to call an undefined alien function..
2020-07-31T08:53:20Z beach: *sigh*
2020-07-31T08:54:35Z stepnem joined #lisp
2020-07-31T08:54:42Z phoe: beach: https://github.com/stassats/lisp-bots/issues/15
2020-07-31T08:55:12Z phoe: the bots are actually maintained
2020-07-31T08:55:43Z beach: Good to know.
2020-07-31T08:55:45Z rwcom34174911642 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T08:56:25Z akronymus: Anyways, gotta go. :(  Got stuff to implement at work. Wish ya all a nice day.
2020-07-31T08:56:31Z akronymus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T08:57:32Z jonatack quit (Quit: jonatack)
2020-07-31T08:57:51Z shka_: whaaaaat? replacing minion?
2020-07-31T08:57:57Z shka_: that's inhumane!
2020-07-31T08:58:16Z beach: inbotane you mean?
2020-07-31T08:58:27Z shka_: :-)
2020-07-31T08:58:28Z beach: I take it back.  Apparently, minion is maintained.
2020-07-31T08:58:51Z shka_: so minion has it's own maintaining minion
2020-07-31T08:58:54Z shka_: cool
2020-07-31T09:00:24Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-31T09:01:13Z pve joined #lisp
2020-07-31T09:06:45Z liberliver joined #lisp
2020-07-31T09:07:29Z rogersm joined #lisp
2020-07-31T09:08:39Z elxbarbosa joined #lisp
2020-07-31T09:09:46Z phoe: don't all active software projects do
2020-07-31T09:12:29Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T09:15:24Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-31T09:19:06Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-31T09:37:08Z elxbarbosa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T09:41:56Z RedMallet quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-31T10:02:02Z vidak`` joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:12:33Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T10:14:28Z dddddd_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:14:37Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T10:14:55Z dddddd_ is now known as dddddd
2020-07-31T10:27:33Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:28:32Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:31:25Z edgar-rft quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T10:32:16Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:33:08Z iissaacc joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:34:25Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T10:34:30Z treflip joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:37:32Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:38:53Z ebzzry_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:40:28Z ebzzry__ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:41:50Z ebzzry___ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:42:13Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T10:42:58Z Inoperable quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T10:43:26Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T10:43:41Z igemnace quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-31T10:45:20Z ebzzry__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T10:46:24Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:48:13Z ebzzry___ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T10:49:25Z zge left #lisp
2020-07-31T10:50:45Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T10:51:10Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T10:51:10Z Inoperable joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:51:30Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T10:52:45Z vidak`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T10:57:03Z luna_is_here quit (Quit: luna_is_here)
2020-07-31T10:58:39Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:00:00Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:00:11Z luna_is_here quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T11:00:52Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:01:12Z matijja quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-31T11:05:16Z Lycurgus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T11:05:19Z luna_is_here joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:07:26Z VincentVega quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T11:12:02Z _whitelogger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T11:14:01Z bitmapper quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T11:14:12Z _whitelogger joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:17:56Z matijja joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:20:51Z vgmind joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:21:36Z hsaziz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T11:28:50Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-31T11:33:54Z treflip quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-07-31T11:34:28Z libertyprime joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:36:58Z RedMallet joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:39:13Z Demosthenex: beach: regarding cl terminal emulator, jackdaniel was doing mcclim extensions to do terminal UIs, but an actual emulator?
2020-07-31T11:40:34Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:41:50Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:42:30Z ldb: I'm curious what can be the benifit of having an ansi-term in CL
2020-07-31T11:42:41Z ldb: scripting feature?
2020-07-31T11:42:57Z ldb: by the way, good evening everyone
2020-07-31T11:44:08Z Demosthenex: no, i'm just trying to hack on a urxvt extension, and ugh it's all perl. i haven't touched perl in so long, i think i'm getting hives.
2020-07-31T11:44:35Z Demosthenex: i use stumpwm, i code in emacs. i love tinkering in CL. if there was a reason to leave urxvt, finding a CL based terminal would be it
2020-07-31T11:44:45Z ljavorsk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T11:46:17Z ldb: I'd say if you're ok with C and CFFI bindings, suckless st is a clean term emulator implementation to start with
2020-07-31T11:47:44Z contrapunctus: Demosthenex: real Common Lispers hack in Climacs 😏
2020-07-31T11:47:58Z ldb: it should not be difficult to write one in pure CL with CLX library, by mimicking what st did
2020-07-31T11:50:44Z Demosthenex: ldb: yeah, reading about st... urxvt has great scrollback support, and the hack i'm working on is to allow me to use emacs keyboard shortcuts to select and copy text in scrollback instead of using mouse.
2020-07-31T11:51:09Z Demosthenex: ldb: i could use tmux, yes, but i have *so many* terminals open at a given time, and each does not need a tmux instance.
2020-07-31T11:51:23Z RedMallet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T11:52:06Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-31T11:52:16Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-31T11:54:35Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T12:04:18Z dddddd joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:05:35Z Demosthenex: ldb: just browsing the st code, holy crap that's short
2020-07-31T12:06:33Z ldb: and it doesn't rely on much other C library
2020-07-31T12:07:25Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:12:08Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:12:46Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T12:12:50Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:13:51Z libertyprime quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-31T12:15:10Z EvW1 is now known as EvW
2020-07-31T12:20:20Z _Posterdati_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:22:47Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T12:24:13Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T12:27:35Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:31:11Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T12:31:11Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T12:31:33Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:32:12Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:32:53Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T12:32:53Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T12:37:50Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:40:26Z jonatack joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:40:49Z ralt joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:41:00Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T12:43:00Z Bike joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:44:03Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:46:39Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:56:44Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:58:47Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T12:59:52Z ldb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T13:00:35Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T13:03:29Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-31T13:04:04Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:04:38Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T13:07:41Z terpri_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:08:49Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:09:29Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:10:25Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-31T13:10:47Z ldb joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:10:47Z ldb left #lisp
2020-07-31T13:11:03Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-31T13:13:56Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:14:37Z iissaacc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T13:16:04Z karlosz joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:24:48Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T13:26:12Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T13:26:12Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T13:26:33Z minion joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:27:12Z specbot joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:28:00Z wxie quit (Quit: wxie)
2020-07-31T13:28:50Z nanoz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T13:30:09Z wxie joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:33:35Z zulu-inuoe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T13:34:24Z wxie quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-31T13:37:16Z phoe: beach: the minion issue was closed.
2020-07-31T13:37:26Z phoe: minion: tell me about Bane, why does he wear the mask
2020-07-31T13:37:26Z minion: phoe: you speak nonsense
2020-07-31T13:37:31Z phoe: much better
2020-07-31T13:37:44Z beach: Excellent!
2020-07-31T13:37:56Z beach: Thanks for doing that.
2020-07-31T13:38:02Z phoe: beach: no problem
2020-07-31T13:38:07Z Bourne joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:41:38Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T13:41:45Z orivej_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:42:20Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:47:18Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T13:55:53Z shangul joined #lisp
2020-07-31T13:59:04Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-31T14:00:49Z _Posterdati_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T14:11:53Z _Posterdati_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T14:12:25Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-31T14:24:05Z shangul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T14:30:04Z sm2n: Demosthenex, you can share your tmux instance across your terminals, that's what I do
2020-07-31T14:31:38Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T14:31:56Z Demosthenex: sm2n: http://demosthenes.org/tmp/screenshot2-0.png  i organize my terminals spatially, by position and virtual screen location. i have 10+ open normally, but have many many more. i don't want to tmux page across all of those, especially when 2 tmux sessions can't see separate windows.
2020-07-31T14:32:19Z shifty joined #lisp
2020-07-31T14:36:12Z zigpaw quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T14:42:07Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T14:42:58Z ayuce joined #lisp
2020-07-31T14:47:10Z zigpaw joined #lisp
2020-07-31T14:49:42Z sm2n: > 2 tmux sessions can't see separate windows
2020-07-31T14:49:46Z sm2n: what do you mean?
2020-07-31T14:50:14Z theseb joined #lisp
2020-07-31T14:50:15Z ChoHag: Two terminals attached to the same tmux session will display the same contents.
2020-07-31T14:50:17Z sm2n: my tmux is setup to work just like emacs and emacsclient
2020-07-31T14:50:21Z sm2n: that's configurable
2020-07-31T14:50:29Z sm2n: each terminal has an independent view
2020-07-31T14:50:40Z ChoHag: Then append 'by default'.
2020-07-31T14:50:53Z sm2n: sure
2020-07-31T14:52:12Z sm2n: all it requires is setting your default terminal shell to `tmux new-session -t main \; new-window`
2020-07-31T14:53:58Z sm2n: I do the same thing with spatial organization of terminals etc, and this works for me
2020-07-31T14:55:29Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T15:01:37Z Demosthenex: sm2n: then you're making 1 tmux instance per terminal.
2020-07-31T15:06:38Z ahungry joined #lisp
2020-07-31T15:10:12Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T15:11:20Z bitmapper joined #lisp
2020-07-31T15:13:25Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T15:15:47Z v88m quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T15:16:19Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T15:26:11Z X-Scale` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T15:26:41Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2020-07-31T15:27:27Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-31T15:27:57Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2020-07-31T15:34:16Z OpenZen joined #lisp
2020-07-31T15:40:31Z rwcom34174911642 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T15:40:43Z rwcom34174911642 quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T15:42:04Z Lord_of_Life_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T15:44:59Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T15:45:02Z Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2020-07-31T15:46:13Z kaftejiman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T15:49:30Z rwcom34174911642 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:01:34Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:01:38Z mankaev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T16:01:49Z mankaev joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:02:41Z sm2n: nope
2020-07-31T16:03:44Z sm2n: well, I guess process-wise you are—is that what you're concerned about?
2020-07-31T16:03:58Z sm2n: but it shares all your "buffers"
2020-07-31T16:05:11Z Fare joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:06:05Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T16:11:48Z rwcom34174911642 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T16:15:18Z EvW1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T16:21:13Z terpri__ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:23:47Z terpri_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T16:26:08Z karlosz quit (Quit: karlosz)
2020-07-31T16:26:37Z cosimone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T16:28:06Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:28:08Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:28:11Z vgmind left #lisp
2020-07-31T16:32:03Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T16:32:32Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:32:37Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T16:32:55Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:48:07Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:49:43Z nirved_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T16:49:51Z renzhi joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:52:43Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T16:53:13Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-31T16:59:23Z nirved quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T17:01:01Z nirved joined #lisp
2020-07-31T17:02:02Z TwoNotes joined #lisp
2020-07-31T17:17:14Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-31T17:17:49Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-31T17:18:04Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T17:24:44Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-31T17:26:57Z jariyah joined #lisp
2020-07-31T17:39:17Z asarch joined #lisp
2020-07-31T17:41:16Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T17:44:17Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T17:46:40Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-31T17:46:46Z Necktwi joined #lisp
2020-07-31T17:47:26Z v88m joined #lisp
2020-07-31T17:51:13Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-31T17:53:04Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T17:55:07Z lucasb joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:02:05Z Aurora_v_kosmose quit (Quit: later)
2020-07-31T18:02:38Z MichaelRaskin joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:04:46Z rogersm quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-07-31T18:09:28Z beaky quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T18:09:32Z retropikzel quit (Quit: retropikzel)
2020-07-31T18:10:44Z beaky joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:13:01Z otwieracz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-31T18:13:01Z antoszka quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-31T18:14:25Z antoszka joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:14:57Z otwieracz joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:18:25Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:21:52Z dominic35 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:22:45Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T18:22:45Z dominic35 is now known as dominic34
2020-07-31T18:27:25Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:27:25Z gaqwas quit (Changing host)
2020-07-31T18:27:25Z gaqwas joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:28:46Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-31T18:29:26Z dominic34 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T18:30:12Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:31:13Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:31:20Z cosimone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T18:32:58Z frgo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T18:34:01Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T18:34:18Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T18:34:36Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T18:35:04Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:35:35Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:37:21Z cosimone_ quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-31T18:37:21Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T18:37:45Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:38:18Z TwoNotes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-31T18:39:00Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:40:10Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T18:40:28Z cosimone_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T18:41:30Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:42:48Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T18:44:25Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:47:52Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:52:55Z bhartrihari left #lisp
2020-07-31T18:53:33Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:54:33Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T18:55:30Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T18:58:04Z jw4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T18:59:31Z jw4 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:01:18Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T19:12:00Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:14:10Z shidima quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-07-31T19:14:46Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T19:16:33Z texno_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:18:12Z texno quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T19:18:41Z retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:20:29Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:20:51Z texno_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T19:22:22Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-31T19:25:34Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-07-31T19:29:36Z narimiran joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:33:39Z cosimone_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:33:57Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-31T19:35:04Z borei joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:36:18Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:36:22Z cosimone_ quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T19:36:29Z jariyah quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-07-31T19:41:53Z aaaaaa joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:45:13Z dominic34 joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:48:31Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-31T19:54:46Z v0|d joined #lisp
2020-07-31T19:56:24Z notzmv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-07-31T19:59:59Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-31T20:01:00Z retropikzel quit (Quit: retropikzel)
2020-07-31T20:02:41Z Jesin joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:04:14Z retropikzel joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:04:54Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:06:24Z luckless_ joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:09:23Z luckless quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T20:09:30Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T20:12:56Z ggole quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-31T20:14:34Z notzmv joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:23:03Z zulu-inuoe joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:25:09Z xrash joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:25:36Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T20:26:27Z random-nick joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:28:01Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-31T20:29:32Z wsinatra quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-07-31T20:31:24Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:35:01Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T20:40:20Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T20:43:00Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2020-07-31T20:43:58Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:44:11Z liberliver quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T20:55:29Z Aurora_v_kosmose joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:57:23Z tristero joined #lisp
2020-07-31T20:58:26Z bhartrihari joined #lisp
2020-07-31T21:01:05Z Lycurgus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T21:01:07Z akoana joined #lisp
2020-07-31T21:01:32Z narimiran quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T21:05:45Z ahungry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T21:06:38Z arbv quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-07-31T21:10:26Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T21:10:45Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-31T21:10:48Z aaaaaa quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-31T21:11:54Z terpri__ is now known as terpri
2020-07-31T21:17:43Z pve quit (Quit: leaving)
2020-07-31T21:18:36Z retropikzel quit (Quit: retropikzel)
2020-07-31T21:35:35Z arbv joined #lisp
2020-07-31T21:39:06Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T21:56:13Z bjorkintosh joined #lisp
2020-07-31T21:56:24Z phoe: froggey: thanks for the PR
2020-07-31T21:57:57Z froggey: I'd send you one for trivial-p-l-n too, but your testsuite has revealed a bunch of issues, so I'm fixing those first
2020-07-31T21:58:27Z phoe: thanks
2020-07-31T21:58:41Z froggey: and yes, I ran the tests for t-c-d. all good
2020-07-31T21:58:45Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T21:58:46Z phoe: <3
2020-07-31T21:59:25Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-31T21:59:37Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-07-31T22:00:07Z EvW joined #lisp
2020-07-31T22:00:30Z caltelt joined #lisp
2020-07-31T22:01:04Z aindilis quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T22:06:12Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-07-31T22:09:47Z renzhi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-07-31T22:12:23Z wsinatra joined #lisp
2020-07-31T22:13:04Z satousan joined #lisp
2020-07-31T22:14:13Z wsinatra quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T22:15:07Z elosant joined #lisp
2020-07-31T22:19:09Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-31T22:20:22Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T22:24:13Z space_otter joined #lisp
2020-07-31T22:29:46Z OpenZen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T22:29:58Z cosimone quit (Quit: Quit.)
2020-07-31T22:31:12Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T22:33:02Z cosimone quit (Client Quit)
2020-07-31T22:35:04Z cosimone joined #lisp
2020-07-31T22:37:25Z elosant quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-31T22:41:07Z satousan quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-07-31T22:42:28Z akoana left #lisp
2020-07-31T22:50:45Z ayuce quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-07-31T22:52:17Z Oladon joined #lisp
2020-07-31T23:15:37Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2020-07-31T23:16:20Z torbo joined #lisp
2020-07-31T23:20:49Z rgherdt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-07-31T23:23:36Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-07-31T23:24:05Z orivej joined #lisp
2020-07-31T23:26:13Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2020-07-31T23:30:22Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-31T23:30:51Z random-nick quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-07-31T23:34:15Z cosimone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-07-31T23:40:59Z mathrick joined #lisp
2020-07-31T23:56:36Z cosimone joined #lisp