2016-01-02T00:05:00Z ccl-logbot joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:05:00Z 
2016-01-02T00:05:00Z names: ccl-logbot jaykru lpaste cantstanya kalzz loke baboon` fluter Beetny SAL9000 Polyphony gko yvm taij33n Tristam neuri8 clop sulky abbe l1x detergnet smull NhanH bogdanm djh_ beach` micro___ specbot nowhere_man katco` mtd_ s00pcan_ TDT grouzen lnostdal mordocai AwchinBruh earl-ducaine \var edgar-rft bcoburn_w karswell Xach_ fourier resttime NeverDie csziacobus fantazo dstatyvka Nikotiini tmtwd mac_ified tuxbrave__ setheus defaultxr kyfho Guest88361
2016-01-02T00:05:00Z names: eazar001 synchromesh zygentoma agumonkey meiji11 BitPuffin|osx wol manuel_ Lord_of_- Bicyclidine anti-freeze pchrist LiamH jfe xantoz CEnnis91 varjagg badkins mathi_aihtam OrangeShark phoe_krk Karl_Dscc yuankode jdz minion l04m33 MrWoohoo2 MrWoohoo scymtym Oddity vaporatorius jsgrant spacebat oleo_ TMM yeticry Oladon aap pjb bcoburn_ dfcat adhoc housel |3b| s00pcan Subfusc DeadTrickster Jesin nydel Rav3n ecraven chavezgu bb010g Meow-J cmatei
2016-01-02T00:05:00Z names: joneshf-laptop myrkraverk zotherstupidguy papachan harish_ vlnx _sjs zymurgy trn thomas vxxe kjeldahl profess Davidbrcz les foom Posterdati nightfly GGMethos constantinexvi oskarth newcup Guest20174 whiteline haasn tobel blub AntiSpamMeta chu nicdev keix brucem Zotan nzambe snits omilu mlrutherford rick-monster larme nisstyre phadthai splittist frankS2 dougk_ jchmrt NaNDude cibs peppermachete moei wooden cyraxjoe_ wizzo rvchangue dilated_dinosaur jonh
2016-01-02T00:05:00Z names: zeroish farhaven MikeSeth Zhivago seg darlinger PuercoPop Xof heurist Quadrescence ryan_vw replcated dtw InvalidCo troydm ssake atgreen theBlackDragon Mandus mwehner j0ni emma mtl axion ec briankrent dlowe jself luis xristos cyberlard Robdgreat ft PlasmaStar zaquest eMBee phryk vhost- jeaye SlashLife yauz_2 ferada_ ivan\ reb`` funnel k4rtik banjiewen Khisanth rtoym wglb sid_cypher tessier gigetoo pok _death ramus fn2187 TMA aeth sivoais Riviera jasom
2016-01-02T00:05:00Z names: joshe jackc- schoppenhauer Jamazia DrCode Noname___ tanuzzo Intensity m0li sigjuice vert2 Colleen__ isoraqathedh varjag sekrit zacts gbyers marcoecc rhg135 o`connor Kruppe joast MinnowTaur gniourf tumdum salva gensym Ober angavrilov sakalli froggey jayne Tordek opcode zeraceth guaqua copec roscoe_tw djinni`_ mnoonan martinhath SilentEcho dan64 AeroNotix cell__ john-mcaleely eagleflo_ Cthulhux` arnsholt samebcha1e xaotuk_ flip214 honkfest1val pwned
2016-01-02T00:05:00Z names: grindhold sepi` gz_ whartung dmiles_afk drdo voidlily heddwch saruta shikhin abeaumont zwdr clog octophore josteink johs sebboh hitecnologys Lord_Nightmare shifty trinitr0n danlentz danieli ahungry ircbrowse jurov cross gendl Neet asedeno quasisane ozzloy wyan alms_clozure billstclair lancetw __main__ moredhel jtz victor_lowther thoto Walex2 tokik lemoinem p_l arrsim wailord pillton antoszka sfa cods SHODAN tokenrove lvh eschulte yeltzooo joga ngrud
2016-01-02T00:05:00Z names: over musegarden3 hratsimihah arpunk j_king otwieracz jackdaniel H4ns low-profile DylanJ vsync White_Flame zyoung Fleurety ivan4th justinmcp_ dsp- tomaw stux|RC faheem @fe[nl]ix Blkt drmeister rvirding d4gg4d swflint dxtr aerique jsnell cmpitg justinabrahms ``Erik russell-- dwchandler renard_ oGMo mach switchp0rt tippenein Patzy sytse cpt_nemo mrSpec zickzackv killmaster Fade mood tkd anunnaki duper lxpz Viaken someone dim lieven yang radioninja_work z0d
2016-01-02T00:05:00Z names: wolf_mozart Firedancer sellout finnrobi hyoyoung misv nopf gypsydave5 stokachu
2016-01-02T00:05:28Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:07:39Z pootler_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:07:45Z ineiros joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:10:18Z trig-ger joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:10:35Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T00:10:57Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:11:34Z XachX joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:17:59Z clop quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2016-01-02T00:18:29Z clop joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:20:02Z yuankode quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.50.1))
2016-01-02T00:22:38Z tuxbrave__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T00:22:38Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T00:22:53Z kyfho joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:24:26Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T00:28:24Z phf joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:34:42Z phf left #lisp
2016-01-02T00:37:12Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T00:38:48Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:41:22Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:41:53Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-02T00:41:54Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-02T00:42:17Z voidengineer joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:42:29Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:52:20Z Sai joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:54:59Z bamorim joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:56:44Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-02T00:58:13Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T01:00:26Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T01:12:25Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T01:12:31Z adhoc is now known as vk5fj
2016-01-02T01:14:54Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-02T01:17:32Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-02T01:18:05Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-02T01:19:01Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-02T01:20:16Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-02T01:27:51Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-02T01:30:08Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-02T01:32:42Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T01:37:39Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T01:41:34Z voidengineer quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T01:41:41Z voidengineer joined #lisp
2016-01-02T01:46:35Z Xof quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T01:51:13Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T01:52:07Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-02T01:53:58Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T01:54:24Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:00:31Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:02:13Z broken_clock joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:02:46Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T02:05:05Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:06:20Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:07:55Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T02:10:55Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T02:11:37Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T02:12:25Z vydd joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:15:20Z reggy joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:19:59Z Sai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T02:20:10Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-02T02:22:23Z bamorim quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T02:24:45Z mordocai quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-02T02:25:25Z reggy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T02:31:33Z broken_clock quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-02T02:31:39Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:32:10Z mordocai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-02T02:32:10Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:37:35Z impulse joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:41:53Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:48:41Z loke` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:48:48Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T02:51:38Z voidengineer quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T02:53:23Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-02T02:59:31Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-02T03:06:00Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T03:10:45Z badkins_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T03:11:35Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T03:12:14Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T03:16:34Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-02T03:17:31Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-02T03:17:53Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T03:18:45Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-02T03:21:48Z tuxbrave_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T03:31:30Z ineiros quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-02T03:32:22Z dtw quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-02T03:37:40Z jeti joined #lisp
2016-01-02T03:38:37Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T03:39:09Z mordocai_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T03:41:51Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-02T03:42:32Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T03:43:38Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T03:44:32Z warweasle` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T03:46:34Z warweasle quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-02T03:54:12Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-02T03:59:05Z agumonkey quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T04:07:06Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-02T04:11:48Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-02T04:13:55Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-02T04:14:40Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T04:15:29Z namra joined #lisp
2016-01-02T04:22:02Z beach` is now known as beach
2016-01-02T04:22:52Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-02T04:25:20Z heddwch: That's offtopic
2016-01-02T04:29:51Z warweasle`: heddwch: I am Groot!
2016-01-02T04:30:30Z warweasle` is now known as warweasle
2016-01-02T04:31:36Z heddwch: lol
2016-01-02T04:34:57Z Polyphony quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T04:38:29Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-02T04:49:33Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T04:51:50Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T04:52:07Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-02T04:54:43Z sshirokov joined #lisp
2016-01-02T04:54:47Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T04:56:20Z kyfho: devops makes me sad
2016-01-02T04:57:05Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-02T05:00:04Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:02:53Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T05:05:18Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:09:11Z p_l: beach: is it just me or did the channel turn surreal?
2016-01-02T05:11:34Z warweasle quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T05:13:24Z beach: I don't think it's just you.
2016-01-02T05:13:29Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:14:53Z beach: Perhaps by this coming Monday, things will be back to normal.  Who knows what all that partying can lead to.
2016-01-02T05:22:50Z p_l: ah, that might be it
2016-01-02T05:22:52Z p_l didn't party at all
2016-01-02T05:29:10Z kyfho quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-02T05:32:41Z badkins_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T05:32:52Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:33:36Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T05:34:23Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-02T05:35:02Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-02T05:36:35Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:36:50Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-02T05:36:52Z troydm joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:38:40Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:40:46Z oleo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T05:41:36Z kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:50:02Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:51:55Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:52:33Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:54:47Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T05:56:29Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T05:57:20Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:05:14Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:05:35Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T06:05:43Z mlrutherford is now known as mlr|dreaming
2016-01-02T06:08:15Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:08:23Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:10:43Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T06:12:35Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T06:17:52Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-02T06:23:14Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:23:16Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:26:36Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:26:39Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2016-01-02T06:33:08Z meiji11 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T06:38:16Z jasom stayed up until 11:20
2016-01-02T06:43:33Z beach: That's more than I managed to do.
2016-01-02T06:43:55Z jasom: I took a nap today so may be up until midnight
2016-01-02T06:44:57Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:44:58Z pwnie quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-02T06:45:06Z mtl: and here I still haven't gone to bed and it's almost 8 am
2016-01-02T06:50:18Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:52:26Z mordocai_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T06:52:30Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:55:14Z mordocai_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T06:55:46Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T06:55:59Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T06:55:59Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T06:56:00Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T06:56:27Z sshirokov quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T06:59:26Z mordocai_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T07:01:53Z moore33: beach: http://wdobbie.com/post/gpu-text-rendering-with-vector-textures/
2016-01-02T07:02:24Z moore33: beach: Looks interesting, also for a summary of other techniques.
2016-01-02T07:07:51Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-02T07:09:19Z beach: moore33: Nice, thanks!
2016-01-02T07:17:51Z pjb: minion: memo for Wasdaf: to access the X clipboard from a termimal program (cl-charm), you can use xclip (this is UNIX!).
2016-01-02T07:17:51Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell Wasdaf when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-02T07:18:31Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:21:24Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T07:24:33Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:25:10Z k4rtik quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T07:25:50Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:25:59Z beach: moore33: Am I right in thinking that these techniques do not take into account that alignment of glyphs might change as a result of size?
2016-01-02T07:27:25Z pjb: pillton: Modern was in 1920.  Modern is quite old nowadays.
2016-01-02T07:28:08Z pjb: Whouah! It's even older, it terminated in 1920!
2016-01-02T07:28:58Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:29:55Z |3b|: beach: it is more reasonable these days to not snap text to pixels, since angular resolution started improving again in the last few years
2016-01-02T07:31:20Z beach: |3b|: Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean to "snap text into pixels" and what is meant by "angular resolution"?
2016-01-02T07:31:44Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T07:32:00Z p_l: |3b|: actually, the choice of that depends on OS, which sets standards for the UI
2016-01-02T07:32:27Z p_l: at high resolution medium, both yield similar enough results to be indistinguishable
2016-01-02T07:32:29Z |3b|: "angular resolution" as in pixels per degree, which combines DPI and viewing distance
2016-01-02T07:32:35Z moore33: beach: I'm not sure. I don't think there is any "tuning" based on glyph size on the screen.
2016-01-02T07:33:15Z pjb: beach: he means mf.lisp
2016-01-02T07:33:22Z beach: |3b|: I have no idea whether you are talking about software, monitors, GPUs, or something else.
2016-01-02T07:33:28Z p_l: beach: Windows and Mac used to have two opposite approaches to fitting glyphs to screen. Windows snapped to pixels for crisp readability on screen, while Mac emulated printing on higher resolution medium which made it a bit aesthetically better but sometimes blurred
2016-01-02T07:33:31Z |3b|: "snap to pixels" as in adjust glyphs to line up with the pixel grid, to pretend you have higher bandwidth display than the nyquist limit
2016-01-02T07:33:50Z |3b|: beach: for angular resolution, displays + OS
2016-01-02T07:34:41Z |3b|: for quite a while, it was very hard to find a desktop display better than about 100DPI, and the OS/software of the times wouldn't work right even if you did
2016-01-02T07:35:24Z p_l: Windows afaik supported it, X11 supported it... and I think that was it
2016-01-02T07:35:31Z |3b|: fortunately with the last few versions of the major OS, that has improved (and even become a feature, see "retina" displays), so hardware has followed by actually providing those displays
2016-01-02T07:35:34Z p_l: Mac assumed 72 dpi iirc or something
2016-01-02T07:35:40Z beach: OK, let me say this: Even on my fairly-high-resolution monitors, and even when I do the rendering in the CPU with a very high resolution, not aligning the glyphs gives unacceptable quality for things like Gsharp.  I don't see how any improvement in OS, GPU, etc could fix that.
2016-01-02T07:35:57Z beach: The only solution I can see is to wait for monitors with higher resolution.
2016-01-02T07:36:10Z |3b|: p_l: sort of, you could change DPI in windows but it would break all sorts of things
2016-01-02T07:36:35Z p_l: |3b|: that's because of ignorant applications, not because of OS
2016-01-02T07:36:48Z |3b|: beach: right, monitors is the important part
2016-01-02T07:36:57Z p_l: |3b|: similar to how Cocoa degenerated by the time "Retina" displays showed up
2016-01-02T07:37:06Z |3b|: p_l: i seem to remember some of those "ignorant applications" shipping with the OS :p
2016-01-02T07:37:21Z beach: So basically the message is: beach, give up and wait for higher-resolution monitors to be available.  Sure, I can do that.
2016-01-02T07:37:37Z |3b|: and i was mainly complaining about the entire ecosystem, not the OS itself
2016-01-02T07:37:45Z beach: I guess once I get my two 4K monitors, I won't care anymore.
2016-01-02T07:37:55Z |3b|: beach: not quite
2016-01-02T07:38:04Z |3b|: that was more the message
2016-01-02T07:38:17Z p_l: beach: you might try to get higher resolution in one dimension by using sub-pixel rendering, but you'll need to know the details about internal layout of the display
2016-01-02T07:38:31Z p_l: (and of course forget about sub-pixel on CRT)
2016-01-02T07:38:37Z |3b|: sort of like avoiding code optimizations that could be solved by a faster CPU and spending the effort elsewhere
2016-01-02T07:38:57Z beach: p_l: I have tried that, and it is not worth it, especially since it basically only works with black and white.
2016-01-02T07:39:16Z beach: |3b|: Yeah, you might be right.
2016-01-02T07:39:49Z beach: One way of looking at it is that I won't have anything to show before 4K monitors become the norm.
2016-01-02T07:41:04Z p_l: beach: ... except in print, so... I think antoszka would love something for music typesetting that would output beautiful sheet music ;)
2016-01-02T07:41:34Z beach: There are several other advantages of giving up.  One important such advantage is that text size in pixels will be totally proportional to text size in some other measure such as point size.
2016-01-02T07:41:53Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T07:42:24Z beach: p_l: Now I am totally confused.  Printing is no longer a problem with current printer resolution.
2016-01-02T07:42:25Z |3b|: also easier to rotate/scale/etc nicely if you care about that
2016-01-02T07:42:48Z beach: Yeah, OK, I get it.  Y'all got the message across.
2016-01-02T07:42:53Z pjb: beach: NeXTSTEP (and then MacOSX and iOS) always had the same mode for printing and for displaying.
2016-01-02T07:43:04Z pjb: s/mode/model/
2016-01-02T07:43:09Z beach: Sorry to hear that.
2016-01-02T07:43:19Z pjb: What difference do you see?
2016-01-02T07:43:32Z p_l: beach: I'm a bit confused as well, so I'll just harken back to CLIM and NeWS, and mention the ability to just "replay" the display from screen to hi-res print
2016-01-02T07:43:39Z beach: pjb: I already explained that.
2016-01-02T07:43:45Z pjb: oh, sorry.
2016-01-02T07:43:46Z |3b|: though i guess there are still lots of cheap/low-end laptops with low DPI displays being sold :/
2016-01-02T07:43:51Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:44:05Z mordocai_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:44:26Z beach: |3b|: Sure, but I am willing to abandon those as part of my targeted user base.
2016-01-02T07:44:55Z sshirokov joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:45:17Z |3b|: and to clarify, i meant the option of not caring about pixels is becoming more reasonable, not that it is necessarily the most reasonable choice, sorry if that was unclear
2016-01-02T07:45:45Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:45:47Z beach: Right, I think I understand.
2016-01-02T07:45:54Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:46:33Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:47:34Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:49:59Z zaquest joined #lisp
2016-01-02T07:50:03Z beach: moore33: So basically, all we need is regions defined by Bezier curves for all possible chapes?
2016-01-02T07:50:06Z beach: shapes
2016-01-02T07:50:15Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T07:50:30Z beach: If so, that is very good news indeed.
2016-01-02T07:51:40Z moore33: beach: I think that is the crux of the technique. Also, I'm not convinced that some pixel-based tuning isn't possible. In the shader, you know you are evaluating the sample for a physical pixel location.
2016-01-02T07:52:43Z pjb: This is good for a screen dump.  However there may be application level difference between displaying and printing.  Basically, the drawing method of the application knows if it's drawing for print or for screen, and can (optionally) format things differently.
2016-01-02T07:53:47Z vk5fj is now known as adhoc
2016-01-02T07:53:48Z pjb: For a simple example, a HTML page will be rendered with links underlined on the screen, but with references to bottom notes with urls on the printed page.
2016-01-02T07:54:25Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-02T07:54:58Z beach: I think I need to digest this information and contemplate the consequences.
2016-01-02T07:56:42Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T07:57:58Z mac_ified quit
2016-01-02T07:59:12Z jasom: just remember: the more bezier curves you have the longer it takes to render.  It's the law of spline demand
2016-01-02T07:59:38Z pjb: beach: this means that there are several layers to the printing problem.  But the drawing API is the same (and when you print on a Postscript printer or a PDF file, the drawing mechanisms are the same too).
2016-01-02T08:01:44Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:02:35Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:08:49Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:10:14Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:13:35Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:15:35Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:15:36Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:18:47Z dtw joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:19:17Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:20:40Z ineiros joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:21:56Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:25:32Z sshirokov quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:25:50Z mordocai_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:25:59Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:26:36Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:26:59Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:31:21Z beach: jasom: more different ones, or more that could also be similar?
2016-01-02T08:31:47Z jasom: beach: it was just a dumb pun "spline demand" "supply and demand"
2016-01-02T08:31:58Z beach: Oh, sorry, read to fast. :)
2016-01-02T08:32:08Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:33:06Z beach: moore33: OK, stupid question(s): For each Bezier "region" is it correct that you just need a single copy of it in the GPU, no matter how it will be positioned in the pixel grid when rendered in different places?
2016-01-02T08:33:33Z beach: ... and no matter how it will be scaled?
2016-01-02T08:35:33Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:36:52Z beach goes away and will come back later to read the answer(s).
2016-01-02T08:38:59Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-02T08:40:35Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:41:32Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:47:24Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:50:03Z mathi_aihtam quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:51:03Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T08:56:05Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T08:59:29Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:03:06Z agumonkey joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:03:34Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-02T09:03:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:03:37Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-02T09:03:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:05:36Z agumonkey quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-02T09:05:51Z agumonkey joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:08:36Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-02T09:08:40Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T09:09:29Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:09:49Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:10:12Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:10:51Z agumonkey quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T09:13:08Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-02T09:13:12Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T09:18:39Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:23:50Z mordocai_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:27:30Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:28:26Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:33:12Z mordocai_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T09:33:38Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T09:34:50Z ggole__ is now known as ggole
2016-01-02T09:35:15Z mordocai quit (Quit: sleeping)
2016-01-02T09:37:23Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:41:39Z moore33 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T09:43:51Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:43:51Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T09:46:25Z nostoi joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:51:50Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:55:42Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-02T09:56:54Z fikusz joined #lisp
2016-01-02T09:57:04Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T09:57:52Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:01:15Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T10:03:05Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:04:26Z Guthur joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:05:35Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T10:07:16Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:09:38Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:09:43Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-02T10:13:55Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T10:14:40Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:19:39Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:19:44Z futpib_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:20:13Z Guthur quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T10:20:14Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T10:21:54Z phax quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-02T10:22:49Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:24:35Z josemanuel quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-02T10:28:50Z kazlock quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T10:29:36Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:30:09Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:30:26Z karswell` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:30:36Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:32:18Z mdemont quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2016-01-02T10:32:58Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:33:10Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T10:33:46Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:35:05Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T10:35:36Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T10:38:23Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:51:32Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:52:46Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T10:53:01Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T10:56:36Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T11:00:31Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-02T11:01:02Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:01:55Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:02:19Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:03:00Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T11:03:11Z resttime quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T11:06:30Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-02T11:06:40Z cadadar quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T11:11:54Z jeti` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:13:04Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T11:18:30Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T11:19:34Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:19:49Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-02T11:20:31Z jeti` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-02T11:20:48Z jeti` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:21:27Z cadadar quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-02T11:23:16Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:27:13Z bogdanm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T11:29:50Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:30:57Z jeti` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-02T11:31:38Z jeti` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:32:02Z jeti` quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-02T11:32:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:32:06Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:33:05Z puchacz quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-02T11:33:29Z jeti` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:33:49Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-02T11:35:01Z jeti` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T11:35:01Z jeti quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T11:36:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T11:37:46Z TMM quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T11:39:52Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-02T11:39:53Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T11:40:14Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:40:18Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-02T11:40:20Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:42:20Z mathi_aihtam quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-02T11:42:46Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:43:32Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:44:30Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-02T11:47:24Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:51:42Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T11:52:34Z nostoi quit (Quit: Verlassend.)
2016-01-02T11:53:26Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:54:35Z zadock joined #lisp
2016-01-02T11:55:17Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:05:12Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-02T12:06:03Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:06:20Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T12:10:28Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:11:20Z joneshf-laptop quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T12:11:42Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:12:20Z vydd joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:14:58Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-02T12:23:32Z voidengineer joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:23:54Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T12:27:32Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-02T12:28:43Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T12:33:35Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:40:53Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:42:27Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:49:24Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:57:00Z sepi` is now known as sepi
2016-01-02T12:57:30Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-02T12:58:46Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:07:45Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:09:42Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-02T13:10:07Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:10:09Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:10:24Z tandy80 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:10:25Z tandy80 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T13:10:59Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T13:14:36Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T13:16:23Z papachan` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:16:39Z urandom__ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:16:44Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:18:00Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T13:32:57Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:37:17Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:42:23Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:42:26Z danofthedeep joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:45:11Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:46:21Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-02T13:56:58Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-02T13:58:56Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T14:00:54Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-02T14:04:29Z xorox90 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:08:00Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2016-01-02T14:08:51Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:09:32Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:10:39Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:11:17Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:13:08Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:13:34Z honkfest1val quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T14:13:41Z honkfestival joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:15:47Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T14:15:55Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T14:25:09Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T14:26:22Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:33:05Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:39:56Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-02T14:43:16Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:44:08Z namra quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-02T14:44:59Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:50:14Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:50:35Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T14:50:37Z sweater is now known as Guest25522
2016-01-02T14:50:42Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T14:51:45Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:54:45Z jusss joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:55:45Z jusss: hi there, if there's a string like "12" and how I know it's integer or not ?
2016-01-02T14:58:17Z \var quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T14:58:39Z z0d: jusss: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_parse_.htm
2016-01-02T14:58:40Z flip214: clhs PARSE-INTEGER
2016-01-02T14:58:41Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_parse_.htm
2016-01-02T14:58:43Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-02T14:58:46Z \var joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:00:46Z jusss: z0d: cl's functions is really more than scheme
2016-01-02T15:02:00Z dtw: jusss, there is also (every #'digit-char-p ...)
2016-01-02T15:02:02Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T15:05:06Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:05:31Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:06:05Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T15:11:44Z Jini joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:12:50Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:16:26Z LiamH: (every #'digit-char-p "-34") => NIL
2016-01-02T15:17:54Z hiyosi left #lisp
2016-01-02T15:18:11Z flip214: (loop for i from most-negative-fixnum to most-positive-fixnum if (equalp "-34" (format nil "~d" i)) do (return i))
2016-01-02T15:19:19Z LiamH: (time (loop for i from most-negative-fixnum to most-positive-fixnum if (equalp "-34" (format nil "~d" i)) do (return i)))
2016-01-02T15:21:55Z danofthedeep quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-02T15:34:03Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:34:09Z beach: Good afternoon everyone!
2016-01-02T15:34:26Z blub: hi beach
2016-01-02T15:34:34Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:38:09Z voidengineer quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T15:39:30Z pjb: jusss: flip214's solution is a very good solution, you can alter it for example as: (loop for i from most-negative-fixnum to most-positive-fixnum if (equalp "twelve" (format nil "~r" i)) do (return i)) #| --> 12 |#
2016-01-02T15:44:44Z Guest25522 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T15:45:06Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T15:46:26Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:47:51Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:50:16Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:56:10Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T15:56:15Z eMBee quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T15:56:29Z eMBee joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:56:41Z eMBee quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T15:56:49Z eMBee joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:56:56Z eMBee quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T15:57:11Z eMBee joined #lisp
2016-01-02T15:57:24Z Guest25522 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T16:00:44Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-02T16:03:36Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-02T16:04:37Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T16:05:37Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-02T16:12:10Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-02T16:13:18Z jeti joined #lisp
2016-01-02T16:13:31Z flip214: yeah, that solution is expandable to roman numerals, maya numbers, .... EVERYTHING!
2016-01-02T16:14:15Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-02T16:14:25Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-02T16:16:46Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-02T16:23:24Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T16:24:51Z papachan` quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T16:24:55Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-02T16:31:26Z Guest25522 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T16:34:06Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-02T16:35:20Z mlr|dreaming is now known as mlrutherford
2016-01-02T16:37:15Z pwnie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T16:40:20Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-02T16:44:48Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-02T16:46:34Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-02T16:49:51Z jusss quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-02T16:54:00Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:06:10Z jeti: Edi Weitz' book Common Lisp Recipes is available as PDF at http://www.apress.com/9781484211779?gtmf=s
2016-01-02T17:06:52Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:07:18Z synchromesh: jeti: I'm going to wait until the movie version comes out.
2016-01-02T17:07:37Z synchromesh kids - he's saving up for the dead tree version
2016-01-02T17:09:46Z jeti: Edi himself hasn't yet seen the paper version but expects it 'in a few days'
2016-01-02T17:10:41Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:14:42Z jsgrant: synchromesh: I'm actually more excited for the Broadway interpretation .
2016-01-02T17:15:34Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:17:38Z Vulcan00 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T17:18:38Z lurker_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:19:31Z jeti: Read through the first chapter and it begins on a comparatively high level about the subtleties of symbols and packages.  Very useful for me at least.
2016-01-02T17:23:19Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-02T17:26:26Z bcoburn_w quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T17:26:42Z jeti` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:26:51Z jeti quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-02T17:27:06Z jeti` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T17:28:59Z jeti` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:30:26Z broken_clock joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:31:58Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T17:32:05Z Xof joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:33:02Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:33:52Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T17:35:04Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:41:10Z warweasle quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T17:43:23Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:45:11Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T17:45:32Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-02T17:47:14Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:47:20Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T17:47:46Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T17:48:29Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-02T17:49:35Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-02T17:52:19Z jonh left #lisp
2016-01-02T17:56:45Z Lord_of_- quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-02T17:57:42Z mlrutherford is now known as mlr|busy
2016-01-02T17:59:25Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T18:00:06Z Lord_of_- joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:00:59Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:04:08Z mlr|busy is now known as mlrutherford
2016-01-02T18:05:04Z pbgc quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
2016-01-02T18:07:07Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:08:27Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:11:26Z HardWall quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T18:14:27Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T18:15:56Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:19:53Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T18:22:06Z drichards joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:27:30Z broken_clock quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-02T18:30:04Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:30:29Z jeti joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:31:52Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:42:25Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T18:42:56Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:44:47Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T18:46:06Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:46:34Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:54:01Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-02T18:57:28Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:57:35Z rpg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T18:57:45Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T18:59:38Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-02T19:01:06Z jsgrant quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T19:03:33Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T19:05:11Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:05:54Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:12:57Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:13:05Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-02T19:13:23Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T19:15:31Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:16:06Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T19:19:02Z TDT joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:21:23Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:27:24Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T19:28:14Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2016-01-02T19:31:27Z TDT joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:32:17Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:34:54Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:35:42Z shookees joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:35:58Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-02T19:36:23Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:36:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-02T19:36:23Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:36:29Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2016-01-02T19:37:24Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T19:39:37Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:40:23Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T19:41:28Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:42:15Z TDT joined #lisp
2016-01-02T19:44:52Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-02T19:54:02Z ggole quit
2016-01-02T19:54:37Z Petit_Dejeuner: When you guys run a lisp image on a server, do you run it with screen and then open emacs and connect to it when you need to do something or do you just run in emacs in screen too. Because I've been doing the latter, and it's a pain with all the key bindings. Or is there some other setup that works well?
2016-01-02T19:56:34Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-02T19:58:36Z axion: i do the latter, but with tmux, and i don't experience any of this pain you speak of
2016-01-02T19:59:48Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T20:00:29Z heddwch: neither... no emacs on the server
2016-01-02T20:00:41Z pjb: Petit_Dejeuner: how comes emacs is a pain?
2016-01-02T20:00:59Z Petit_Dejeuner: screen uses the shortcuts C-a and C-d among others
2016-01-02T20:01:04Z jaykru_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:01:33Z pjb: You can configure screen to use other keys for that. I bind it to C-t
2016-01-02T20:01:39Z Petit_Dejeuner: Also, some weird terminal stuff. Like backspace didn't move the cursor back last time I played with it.
2016-01-02T20:01:54Z pjb: You can configure emacs to use it.
2016-01-02T20:01:59Z Petit_Dejeuner: pjb: Well yeah, but then if I want to use C-t for trace or something...
2016-01-02T20:02:02Z pjb: also, use stty
2016-01-02T20:02:12Z pjb: Petit_Dejeuner: you have to give up something!
2016-01-02T20:02:22Z pjb: But there are 32 control codes to choose from!
2016-01-02T20:02:46Z Petit_Dejeuner: Maybe on YOUR keyboard.
2016-01-02T20:02:57Z heddwch: …
2016-01-02T20:03:01Z pjb: Actually, I use C-z  in screen (but sometimes I have screen in screen, so I may have a C-t temporarily).
2016-01-02T20:03:05Z pjb: On all keyboards.
2016-01-02T20:03:11Z mood: I'd connect to the image using a locally running Emacs, through an SSH tunnel
2016-01-02T20:03:12Z Petit_Dejeuner: That seems like a lot.
2016-01-02T20:03:22Z Petit_Dejeuner: mood: Okay, that makes sense too.
2016-01-02T20:03:28Z pjb: C-z is not that useful in emacs, and you can always M-x suspend-emacs RET instead.
2016-01-02T20:03:45Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:04:29Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2016-01-02T20:05:04Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:05:09Z Petit_Dejeuner: Alright, that would work.
2016-01-02T20:08:33Z jaykru quit
2016-01-02T20:08:48Z jaykru_ quit (Quit: leaving desu)
2016-01-02T20:08:59Z jaykru joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:09:09Z pjb: So, screen\shell\lisp which gives you a REPL for "maintainance". If you need to debug, you can load swank and launch a swank server, and connect to it from an emacs instance elsewhere.
2016-01-02T20:09:39Z pjb: Actually, I launch the lisp image in a shell loop, so it's restarted automatically if it quits.
2016-01-02T20:10:00Z pjb: Like this:
2016-01-02T20:10:02Z pjb: su -c 'screen -d -m -S botihn -t botihn -c /home/pjb/etc/screenrc \
2016-01-02T20:10:02Z pjb:          bash -c  "export LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 ; while sleep 2 ; do \
2016-01-02T20:10:02Z pjb:                    /usr/bin/rlwrap /usr/local/sbin/botihn ; done"' \
2016-01-02T20:10:05Z pjb:     - pjb
2016-01-02T20:10:09Z pjb:  
2016-01-02T20:10:14Z mlrutherford is now known as mlr|snacking
2016-01-02T20:10:26Z pjb: (from /etc/rc.local)
2016-01-02T20:13:06Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T20:13:56Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:14:11Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T20:14:41Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T20:15:29Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:16:03Z warweasle quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ))
2016-01-02T20:18:59Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:29:37Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T20:31:51Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:33:04Z k4rtik quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-02T20:36:21Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:36:22Z rpg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T20:36:32Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:38:15Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:38:26Z hiroakip quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T20:43:54Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:44:17Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:45:11Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T20:45:34Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:47:44Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:52:43Z H4ns: Petit_Dejeuner: i use ^^ as escape character for screen (and tmux), so i have no trouble running emacs in a detached session.
2016-01-02T20:53:20Z H4ns: Petit_Dejeuner: i don't experience any of the other troubles that you seem to have.  maybe you should experiment with different TERM settings or using a different terminal emulator.
2016-01-02T20:53:51Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-02T20:54:18Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-02T20:55:06Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T20:59:17Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T20:59:33Z edgar-rft quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2016-01-02T21:00:14Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:00:57Z jeti`` joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:01:59Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T21:02:46Z mlr|snacking is now known as mlrutherford
2016-01-02T21:03:33Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:04:20Z jeti quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-02T21:04:20Z jeti` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-02T21:05:01Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:10:01Z jeti``:  /whois h4ns
2016-01-02T21:10:42Z TDT joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:11:45Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-02T21:12:26Z karswell` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T21:13:04Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:13:05Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-02T21:13:05Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:13:22Z malice joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:14:29Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T21:14:43Z malice: Hello guys! Happy new year!
2016-01-02T21:14:57Z jeti joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:15:01Z malice: I have a question: I'm reading Paul Graham's On Lisp, and I have a trouble understanding the function:
2016-01-02T21:15:02Z malice: http://ix.io/n7p
2016-01-02T21:15:14Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:15:48Z malice: It looks to me like the intention was to run mapcar over each list with FN, then append resulting lists
2016-01-02T21:16:42Z Bicyclidine: yeah. that's a common function.
2016-01-02T21:16:43Z malice: However, mapcar, when given more lists, works differently - instead of returning list of results of mapping FN over each list, it returns one list, with result of mapping FN with Nth element of each list as arguments
2016-01-02T21:16:47Z malice: How should that work?
2016-01-02T21:16:54Z malice: Do I understand something wrong?
2016-01-02T21:16:59Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T21:17:23Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:17:23Z mordocai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-02T21:17:23Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:17:46Z dim: (mapcar #'list '(1 2 3) '(a b c)) --> ((1 A) (2 B) (3 C))
2016-01-02T21:17:48Z Bicyclidine: the idea is that (mappend f l1 l2) = (apply #'append (mapcar f l1 l2)).
2016-01-02T21:17:49Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:17:57Z jaykru_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:18:24Z jeti quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T21:18:24Z jeti`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T21:18:40Z malice: Yeah, I'm talking about that dim. I expect mapcar to work just like this.
2016-01-02T21:18:44Z Bicyclidine: so for instance (mappend (lambda (x y) (list (+ x y))) '(1 2 3) '(7 8 13)) => (8 10 16)
2016-01-02T21:19:35Z Bicyclidine: or with dim's, (mappend #'list '(1 2 3) '(a b c)) => (1 a 2 b 3 c), which is (apply #'append '((1 a) (2 b) (3 c))).
2016-01-02T21:19:37Z malice: Ahh...
2016-01-02T21:19:56Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-02T21:19:59Z malice: So that's the use case of this function.
2016-01-02T21:20:05Z malice: Now it's clearer to me. Thanks a lot guys.
2016-01-02T21:20:35Z jaykru quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T21:21:14Z jeti joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:25:07Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:25:23Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-02T21:26:43Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T21:26:45Z vydd joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:27:27Z warweasle: Hey vydd.
2016-01-02T21:29:23Z pjb: malice: notice that there's mapcan: (mapcan (function list) '(1 2 3) '(a b c)) #| --> (1 a 2 b 3 c) |#
2016-01-02T21:29:54Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T21:31:25Z malice: pjb: Yeah, but it works destructively. Could that be a problem?
2016-01-02T21:31:41Z pjb: malice: indeed.
2016-01-02T21:33:27Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:33:28Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-02T21:33:28Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:33:29Z pjb: malice: for example, there are a few CL functions that return non-mutable lists, such as list-all-packages. If you returned such a list from the function that would be a problem.  You could compose with copy-list: (mapcan (compose (function copy-list) (lambda (k) (gethash k named-lists))) '(a b c))
2016-01-02T21:34:43Z malice: That makes sense. So I shouldn't use mapcan when I have a chance of getting some conses that are owned by someone else?
2016-01-02T21:35:01Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:35:15Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:36:45Z pjb: Exactly.
2016-01-02T21:38:15Z pjb: malice: on the other hand, mappend has another problem: it use apply, which calls the function append, and therefore is limited in the number of arguments by call-arguments-limit which can be as small as 50.
2016-01-02T21:38:16Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:38:16Z k4rtik quit (Changing host)
2016-01-02T21:38:16Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:39:26Z malice: pjb: Thanks! I did not know that! It surely looks like a problem...
2016-01-02T21:40:14Z malice: pjb: So to get around it, what should I do?
2016-01-02T21:42:00Z pjb: You may use a function such as com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.sequence:concatenate-sequences
2016-01-02T21:42:15Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:42:43Z malice: Will look into that. Thanks.
2016-01-02T21:43:30Z malice: I have another question, while we're at it, if I may :)
2016-01-02T21:43:34Z malice: I have an example here: http://ix.io/n7q
2016-01-02T21:43:40Z malice: It's quote vs function
2016-01-02T21:43:55Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T21:43:57Z pjb: Yes.
2016-01-02T21:44:02Z malice: I do not fully understand why it works like that. I've read that special operator function reaches to the lexical environment
2016-01-02T21:44:15Z malice: And square returns the object, unevaluated.
2016-01-02T21:44:31Z pjb: funcall calls apply.  When apply is given a symbol instead of a function, it calls (symbol-function symbol).
2016-01-02T21:44:46Z pjb: defun sets (symbol-function symbol) which makes the symbol fbound.
2016-01-02T21:45:28Z pjb: but (function square) finds the function named square in the lexical environment, before finding (symbol-function 'square) in the global environment.
2016-01-02T21:45:50Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:46:01Z malice: That makes sense.
2016-01-02T21:46:19Z pjb: Notice that FUNCTION is called lexically in the body of FLET, while APPLY is not seen here. Therefore APPLY can only find a function dynamically fbound to the given symbol.
2016-01-02T21:46:43Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:46:59Z malice: Right.
2016-01-02T21:47:07Z malice: Sometimes it looks like Lisp can be as complicated as C++...
2016-01-02T21:47:21Z pjb: It's still simplier.
2016-01-02T21:47:24Z Petit_Dejeuner: ...but the syntax never will be.
2016-01-02T21:47:57Z Petit_Dejeuner: Thanks for all the help guys, I'm trying to set up emacs on tmux so it's comfortable.
2016-01-02T21:48:21Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:48:45Z malice left #lisp
2016-01-02T21:49:24Z jeti: minion: add "cl-recipes" as:"Common Lisp Recipes" by Edi Weitz available as PDF from http://www.apress.com/programming/lisp.  Recommended after working through "Practical Common Lisp".
2016-01-02T21:49:24Z minion: OK, done.
2016-01-02T21:49:38Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:49:39Z rpg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T21:49:49Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:50:05Z malice joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:50:14Z malice: Thank you very much pjb.
2016-01-02T21:50:32Z malice: Can this knowledge be found in CLTL?
2016-01-02T21:50:43Z pjb: Yes, and in CLHS.
2016-01-02T21:50:55Z malice: Right. Thanks a lot.
2016-01-02T21:51:27Z malice: pjb: Do you have any website, github account or such? I would be interested in looking at your code or something like that, if you don't mind.
2016-01-02T21:52:03Z pjb: http://gitlab.com/com-informatimago/com-informatimago
2016-01-02T21:52:15Z pjb: http://www.informatimago.com/
2016-01-02T21:52:27Z pjb: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/usenet.html
2016-01-02T21:53:21Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-02T21:53:45Z malice: Oh, it's you. I've read few posts that you wrote. They're nice.
2016-01-02T21:54:56Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T21:55:46Z Petit_Dejeuner needs to write something for hosting usenet posts that isn't javascript hell.
2016-01-02T21:59:10Z jaykru_: what's a good library for dealing with file io in CL? (i.e. enumerating the files in a directory) https://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/ looked nice but isn't portable
2016-01-02T22:00:09Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T22:00:39Z jeti: H4ns: around?
2016-01-02T22:00:55Z H4ns: jeti: barely
2016-01-02T22:01:21Z Jini quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T22:01:54Z lurker_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-02T22:01:59Z jeti: H4ns: Nice work, book of Edi! Congrats
2016-01-02T22:02:07Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:02:19Z ACE_Recliner quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-02T22:02:59Z H4ns: jeti: thanks, i'll forward that.
2016-01-02T22:03:21Z H4ns: jeti: although you'll probably meet him before i do :)
2016-01-02T22:03:48Z jeti: H4ns: Apress spells Lisp still LISP, did you already try to correct that?
2016-01-02T22:04:30Z H4ns: jeti: i'm just a reviewer, i have little influence on the rest of the book promotion process
2016-01-02T22:04:42Z H4ns: well, actually, i have no influence at all :)
2016-01-02T22:04:46Z Walex2 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-02T22:05:09Z p_l: minion: cl-recipes?
2016-01-02T22:05:10Z minion: cl-recipes: Edi Weitz "Common Lisp Recipes" available as
2016-01-02T22:06:43Z pjb: jaykru_: there's cl-path, there's stuff in uiop, com.gigamonkeys.pathnames, etc.
2016-01-02T22:07:54Z phoe_krk: cl-recipes! <3
2016-01-02T22:08:10Z jaykru_: pjb: cl-fad seems to have some nice functions for this. thanks.
2016-01-02T22:08:11Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-02T22:08:53Z pjb: Yes, cl-fad too.
2016-01-02T22:10:06Z Walex joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:17:48Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-02T22:19:54Z malice: jaykru_: what's wrong with UIOP?
2016-01-02T22:20:45Z jaykru_: didn't really look into it once cl-fad was working
2016-01-02T22:22:16Z jaykru_: I'm very new to CL as you can see
2016-01-02T22:24:03Z phoe_krk: jaykru_: feel free to explore various alternatives and find your own preferred one! Myself I was using UIOP for executing programs as nothing else was portable and working enough for me at the moment, maybe now things have changed.
2016-01-02T22:24:11Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-02T22:26:04Z jaykru_: phoe_krk: cl-fad is working for me, but UIOP seems a lot more extensive and convenient (mainly due to being prepackaged with ASDF)
2016-01-02T22:26:17Z jaykru_: thanks for the help everyone. this channel is so damn friendly!
2016-01-02T22:26:56Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:27:03Z phoe_krk: jaykru_: you're welcome
2016-01-02T22:27:15Z phoe_krk: jaykru_: and don't feel afraid to stick to what's working at the moment.
2016-01-02T22:27:19Z phoe_krk: you can always unstick yourself later on.
2016-01-02T22:29:08Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-02T22:29:17Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T22:29:43Z shookees quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-02T22:29:50Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T22:31:14Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:33:07Z arborist joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:34:29Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:36:51Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:39:32Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-02T22:39:52Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:44:07Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:45:46Z anti-fre_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:46:04Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T22:46:15Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T22:47:18Z anti-fre_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T22:48:36Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:48:41Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:49:13Z Ven quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-02T22:50:22Z phoe_krk: http://weitz.de/cl-recipes/errata.pdf that's cute
2016-01-02T22:50:34Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:52:39Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-02T22:53:07Z warweasle quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ))
2016-01-02T22:54:25Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-02T22:54:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-02T22:57:20Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-02T22:57:26Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T22:57:59Z cadadar left #lisp
2016-01-02T23:03:40Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-02T23:03:45Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T23:05:45Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:08:07Z over quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-02T23:09:46Z over joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:10:05Z varjagg: Xach: have a version of cl-jpeg that builds with :verbose t now on sbcl
2016-01-02T23:10:09Z varjagg: in my github fork
2016-01-02T23:15:33Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T23:16:02Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-02T23:16:35Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-02T23:17:23Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:17:41Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:19:57Z jeti: phoe_krk: yes dramatic :)
2016-01-02T23:21:54Z phoe_krk: :P
2016-01-02T23:23:13Z jeti: minion: cl-recipes
2016-01-02T23:23:14Z minion: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-recipes''.
2016-01-02T23:23:33Z phoe_krk: minion: cl-recipes?
2016-01-02T23:23:33Z minion: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-recipes''.
2016-01-02T23:23:45Z jeti: alzheimers
2016-01-02T23:23:52Z phoe_krk: xD
2016-01-02T23:25:38Z jeti: minion: add "cl-recipes" as:"Common Lisp Recipes" by Edi Weitz
2016-01-02T23:25:38Z jeti:        available as PDF from http://www.apress.com/programming/lisp (2. Jan 2016).
2016-01-02T23:25:38Z jeti:        Recommended after working through "Practical Common Lisp".
2016-01-02T23:25:38Z minion: add "cl-recipes" as"Common Lisp Recipes" by Edi Weitz: An error was encountered in lookup: Parse error:URI "http://www.cliki.net/add%20\"cl-recipes\"%20as\"Common%20Lisp%20Recipes\"%20by%20Edi%20Weitz?source" contains illegal character #\" at position 27..
2016-01-02T23:26:15Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-02T23:27:00Z jeti: minion: forget "cl-recipes"
2016-01-02T23:27:00Z minion: What's "cl-recipes"? Never heard of it.
2016-01-02T23:27:57Z jeti: minion: add "cl-recipes" as:"Common Lisp Recipes" by Edi Weitz available as PDF from http://www.apress.com/programming/lisp. Recommended after working through "Practical Common Lisp".
2016-01-02T23:27:57Z minion: OK, done.
2016-01-02T23:28:23Z jeti: minion: cl-recipes
2016-01-02T23:28:23Z minion: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-recipes''.
2016-01-02T23:28:41Z jeti: minion: "cl-recipes"
2016-01-02T23:28:42Z minion: "cl-recipes": An error was encountered in lookup: Parse error:URI "http://www.cliki.net/\"cl-recipes\"?source" contains illegal character #\" at position 21..
2016-01-02T23:29:05Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:29:22Z jeti: minion: forget "cl-recipes"
2016-01-02T23:29:22Z minion: What's "cl-recipes"? Never heard of it.
2016-01-02T23:29:46Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:30:06Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-02T23:31:50Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-02T23:32:38Z cabaire quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-02T23:33:44Z arborist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-02T23:33:52Z arborist joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:34:34Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:34:55Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:38:05Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:47:14Z tos-1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-02T23:49:11Z arborist quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-02T23:49:43Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-02T23:52:10Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:52:35Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:56:18Z malice: Should, or shouldn't I sharp-quote lambda as an argument function? Why?
2016-01-02T23:56:51Z rpg_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:56:52Z rpg_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-02T23:57:00Z rpg_ joined #lisp
2016-01-02T23:57:21Z varjagg: would (signed-byte 16) map to a useful storage class on sbcl?
2016-01-02T23:57:23Z rpg quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-02T23:57:36Z varjagg: or it binds a full fixnum anyway
2016-01-02T23:59:54Z p_l: I think it binds to 16 bit values in optimized arrays
2016-01-03T00:00:58Z varjagg: cool
2016-01-03T00:01:30Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:02:15Z arborist joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:02:28Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:02:44Z varjagg: yep i see the difference in allocation
2016-01-03T00:03:01Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-03T00:03:41Z p_l: varjagg: with array, you can simplify allocation so that tagging isn't necessary even without going (safety 0)
2016-01-03T00:03:57Z jfe quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.50.1))
2016-01-03T00:04:07Z p_l: (since GC etc. can get type information from definition of the array)
2016-01-03T00:05:37Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:05:43Z jeti` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:06:27Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:07:24Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:07:44Z jeti quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:08:44Z nyef joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:09:06Z futpib_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:11:49Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2016-01-03T00:11:57Z Cxcf joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:14:24Z jeti joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:15:34Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-03T00:17:40Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:25:56Z yuankode quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.50.1))
2016-01-03T00:25:57Z badkins quit
2016-01-03T00:26:27Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:27:07Z anti-freeze quit
2016-01-03T00:28:09Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:28:20Z fikusz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T00:28:33Z sweater is now known as Guest50682
2016-01-03T00:28:35Z mordocai quit (Quit: brb hopefully on bouncer)
2016-01-03T00:28:51Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:31:50Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:33:21Z ajf- quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-03T00:34:44Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:35:06Z Cxcf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:35:18Z TDT joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:38:26Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:41:49Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:42:09Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:42:47Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:42:48Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-03T00:42:56Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:43:51Z Cxcf joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:45:09Z arborist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:46:23Z rpg_ quit (Quit: rpg_)
2016-01-03T00:46:48Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:47:58Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:48:18Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-03T00:48:29Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:48:30Z Cxcf quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T00:48:37Z Cxcf joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:50:16Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:52:27Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:52:55Z Cxcf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T00:53:20Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:55:48Z Cxcf joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:56:53Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T00:57:10Z arborist joined #lisp
2016-01-03T01:00:14Z Cxcf quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T01:01:32Z l04m33_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T01:02:31Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T01:04:59Z l04m33 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T01:10:06Z malice left #lisp
2016-01-03T01:14:44Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-03T01:22:23Z danlei joined #lisp
2016-01-03T01:23:56Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-03T01:27:24Z bogwonch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-03T01:28:08Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T01:30:28Z jeti is now known as Guest65733
2016-01-03T01:30:51Z trinitr0n: https://www.facebook.com/events/131858610522588/
2016-01-03T01:30:59Z trinitr0n: If you're in the Pacific Northwest
2016-01-03T01:35:02Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-03T01:40:06Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T01:45:19Z TMM quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T01:46:06Z ajf- quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-03T01:46:47Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T01:46:47Z rpg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T01:46:57Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T01:49:59Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T01:50:23Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T01:51:20Z danlei quit (Quit: Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung.)
2016-01-03T01:51:50Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T01:54:09Z Quadrescence: trinitr0n, there's going to be a Seattle Lisp Meetup later this month
2016-01-03T01:56:14Z trinitr0n: Quadrescence: Probably can't make it to feb but feel free to pass around
2016-01-03T01:56:45Z Quadrescence: trinitr0n, Are you hosting/going to this meet?
2016-01-03T01:57:04Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T01:58:41Z pwnie quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T01:59:00Z trinitr0n: Quadrescence: I am hosting, yeah
2016-01-03T01:59:09Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-03T01:59:11Z Quadrescence: cool neat
2016-01-03T02:04:56Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:05:20Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:08:11Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:08:33Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:10:31Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-03T02:11:03Z Guest65733 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-03T02:11:10Z jeti` left #lisp
2016-01-03T02:12:06Z jeti` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:16:35Z d00der joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:16:39Z d00der: Hello
2016-01-03T02:17:10Z d00der: So I'm going to make a roguelike, and will write the core in C.. But I want to use a lisp as a scripting language
2016-01-03T02:17:40Z d00der: Guile or Racket seem like the obvious choices, but I have experience with common lisp, how well would that work?
2016-01-03T02:19:15Z les: why not ECL?
2016-01-03T02:19:58Z d00der: Not sure, never heard of it :) I've been away from the lisp scene
2016-01-03T02:20:05Z d00der: Is it a lightweight common lisp?
2016-01-03T02:20:23Z les: yeah its a small light weight cl
2016-01-03T02:20:39Z les: 'embeddable common lisp' if you will
2016-01-03T02:20:59Z les: though to be honest you shouldn't have many difficulties using guile or racket either if you know CL
2016-01-03T02:21:05Z d00der: Great, I'm just reading about it now. Seems like it could be perfect
2016-01-03T02:22:37Z d00der: I'm fairly new to C, and I've been away from CL for a long time, so I don't really have any idea what I'm doing
2016-01-03T02:22:47Z d00der: But the idea sounds fun to me
2016-01-03T02:24:57Z les: depending on how much work you want to do on the 'nuts and bolts' you might want to consider looking at something like libtcod to give you a useful starting point
2016-01-03T02:25:04Z les: for the C side of things
2016-01-03T02:25:28Z d00der: Yeah I've been thinking about that, I've noticed many of the top roguelikes use it
2016-01-03T02:25:34Z d00der: Including my favorite, Brogue
2016-01-03T02:25:47Z d00der: I don't want to reinvent the wheel so I'll probably use it
2016-01-03T02:27:12Z d00der: Thanks for the suggestions!
2016-01-03T02:27:18Z les: Good luck
2016-01-03T02:31:46Z d00der quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:33:11Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-03T02:42:15Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:43:01Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:46:46Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:47:35Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:47:45Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:47:51Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:48:29Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:48:55Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:50:33Z omilu quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-03T02:51:10Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:51:41Z omilu joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:51:50Z omilu quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-03T02:53:00Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:53:28Z omilu joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:54:26Z omilu quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-03T02:54:58Z omilu joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:56:05Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:59:29Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T02:59:38Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-03T02:59:58Z yeticry quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-03T03:01:18Z kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-03T03:04:03Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-03T03:04:48Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T03:05:12Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-03T03:05:42Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-03T03:07:48Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2016-01-03T03:07:56Z MrWoohoo2 quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2016-01-03T03:07:56Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2016-01-03T03:11:54Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T03:15:10Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T03:17:22Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T03:18:08Z jeti` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T03:26:20Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-03T03:27:44Z shifty joined #lisp
2016-01-03T03:30:23Z drichards quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T03:30:47Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T03:32:40Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T03:35:22Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-03T03:43:20Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T03:45:52Z mateuszb_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T03:47:39Z mateuszb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T03:48:30Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T03:53:16Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T04:01:25Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-03T04:02:37Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-03T04:11:30Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T04:26:44Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-03T04:42:40Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T04:42:54Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T04:43:48Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T04:47:26Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T04:48:36Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T04:49:17Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T04:54:00Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T04:56:00Z Petit_Dejeuner: Hi, I'm trying to write a parser and have the following code. The first function works fine, but the second gets stuck in an infinite loop. I assume the second function gets stuck because I'm popping from a list instead of reading from a stream, and so the recursive calls copy the list by value instead of reference. Is there a better way to go about this? https://www.refheap.com/c01b2ed503a90d2eaa5393230
2016-01-03T04:56:22Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-03T04:57:15Z Guest50682 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T04:59:24Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-03T05:01:24Z Bicyclidine: Petit_Dejeuner: it only pops once. try "for token = (pop tokens)".
2016-01-03T05:04:07Z Petit_Dejeuner: Alright, that solves the infinite loop problem.
2016-01-03T05:09:47Z danlei joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:10:39Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:13:57Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T05:14:12Z jeti` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:14:28Z resttime quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T05:18:53Z jeti` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:20:53Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:21:11Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:24:24Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:25:34Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:26:00Z Vulcan00 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:26:12Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:27:24Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:28:40Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-03T05:33:39Z nyef: Hello beach.
2016-01-03T05:34:19Z beach: Hey nyef.  What's up?
2016-01-03T05:34:52Z nyef: Not much. In the planning stages for writing a new emulator.
2016-01-03T05:35:15Z beach: What would it emulate?
2016-01-03T05:35:48Z nyef: Looking to start with MIPS, but the scope might expand to cover PA-RISC and Alpha.
2016-01-03T05:36:37Z beach: Existing emulators aren't good enough?
2016-01-03T05:36:58Z nyef: For the MIPS? No.
2016-01-03T05:39:12Z les: i always liked the mips instruction set.
2016-01-03T05:39:55Z les: tidy, lots of registers, mostly (completely?) orthogonal
2016-01-03T05:40:20Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:40:37Z nyef: I want to emulate a specific MIPS system, and there's basically nothing suitable to use as a basis.
2016-01-03T05:40:53Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-03T05:41:03Z nyef: les: You might also have a look at the Alpha instruction set, it's also pretty clean.
2016-01-03T05:41:37Z nyef: As opposed to the PA-RISC instruction set, which is spectacularly twisty.
2016-01-03T05:42:26Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:43:12Z zbigniew quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T05:44:07Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:46:41Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:47:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:47:13Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:48:43Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:49:53Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2016-01-03T05:50:00Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:50:06Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T05:52:39Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:53:04Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:54:59Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T05:59:41Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T06:01:53Z jaykru joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:01:56Z jaykru quit (Changing host)
2016-01-03T06:01:56Z jaykru joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:05:53Z jaykru quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T06:26:42Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:28:53Z arborist quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T06:30:29Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:30:57Z Heranort is now known as heranort
2016-01-03T06:36:04Z Bahman joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:41:41Z arborist joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:44:57Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:48:39Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:49:15Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T06:49:22Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:50:52Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:51:07Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T06:52:24Z danlei quit (Quit: Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung.)
2016-01-03T06:53:41Z over quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T06:55:39Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T06:55:55Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T06:57:22Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T07:02:02Z over joined #lisp
2016-01-03T07:02:06Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T07:02:35Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T07:03:15Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T07:08:00Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T07:08:43Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T07:08:44Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T07:23:27Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T07:28:22Z les quit (Quit: "")
2016-01-03T07:28:32Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-03T07:29:51Z pjb: It's crazy, writing a rogue in C!  The dumbest thing to do.
2016-01-03T07:32:35Z arborist quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T07:32:56Z les quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-03T07:33:06Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-03T07:35:04Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-03T07:41:51Z kazlock: Who was it that was helping me with a string search function the other day?
2016-01-03T07:50:38Z H4ns: kazlock: logs are here: http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/
2016-01-03T07:51:35Z kazlock: ty h4ns, found it
2016-01-03T07:51:38Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T07:52:17Z kazlock: loke: I came up with a way to do string matching in O(n)
2016-01-03T07:52:36Z kazlock: and its pretty simple
2016-01-03T07:53:03Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T07:53:28Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-03T07:55:15Z \var quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T07:55:16Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-03T07:56:36Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T07:57:47Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:02:02Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:02:09Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:05:09Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:11:35Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T08:11:41Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:12:10Z ahungry: Why can't CLOS dispatch if two objects want to use the same accessor name?  like, (defclass Foo () ((Blub :accessor Blub))), then a (defclass Bar () ((Blub :accessor Blub))) - I'd think it could look at what object was being passed to the call to (Blub <some-object>) ?
2016-01-03T08:12:24Z ahungry: Or am I only having an issue since I put each defclass in a separate package and the exports are messing it up
2016-01-03T08:12:54Z Bicyclidine: it's totally possible to have the accessors be methods of the same gf, yeah.
2016-01-03T08:13:21Z ahungry: I hate to prefix each with Foo-Blub, Bar-Blub - so in this case, I could probably fix by just dropping all my defclass statements in one large file?
2016-01-03T08:13:21Z H4ns: ahungry: you may want to qualify "Why can't CLOS dispatch" a bit more.
2016-01-03T08:13:49Z H4ns: ahungry: you could also make sure that "Blub" is actually the same symbol for both classes.
2016-01-03T08:13:55Z MinnowTaur_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:13:55Z Bicyclidine: what file they're in doesn't matter, just the package
2016-01-03T08:13:57Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:14:12Z ahungry: This is a short example for the project i'm working on https://github.com/ahungry/alluring-allegory/blob/master/src/choice.lisp
2016-01-03T08:14:13Z H4ns: ahungry: from what you're writing, it seems that there are two distinct Blub symbols in two distinct packages.
2016-01-03T08:14:21Z ahungry: trying to keep things more modular (yes)
2016-01-03T08:14:42Z ahungry: Is there a way I can have that file + defclass export just "Text" and not "Choice-Text", to be used in my main.lisp
2016-01-03T08:14:59Z ahungry: as well as have a thing like 'Actor' as a defclass which does the same (but is a different type of Text coming out)
2016-01-03T08:15:02Z H4ns: ahungry: exports are explicit, there is no magic.
2016-01-03T08:15:26Z ahungry: So, the fix is just to avoid needing to export?  Keep them all in the main package vs making the sub packages like this
2016-01-03T08:15:30Z Bicyclidine: oh, you're doing one package per file
2016-01-03T08:15:47Z Bicyclidine: and one class per file
2016-01-03T08:15:58Z Bicyclidine: i would, basically, not do that
2016-01-03T08:16:01Z H4ns: ahungry: no, the fix is to understand what symbols your accessors are named by and creating the packages accordingly.
2016-01-03T08:16:20Z MinnowTaur quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T08:16:29Z H4ns: ahungry: or, of course, not understand packages and put everything into one package.  you'd even get applause for that from some people.
2016-01-03T08:17:36Z H4ns: ahungry: you could, for example, have an "api" package that exports all the symbols that are used to name accessors, and then name the accessors api:foo
2016-01-03T08:17:55Z ahungry: For some reason (ignorance) I was hoping the export on the class name itself would bubble up all it's accessors, so anytime a package which was using said package would know to handle the (Accessor <object>)
2016-01-03T08:18:11Z H4ns: ahungry: yeah, ignorance.  you need to learn how packages work.
2016-01-03T08:18:19Z Bicyclidine: symbols are read at read time. the reader doesn't know anything about defclass at all
2016-01-03T08:18:31Z Bicyclidine: package system doesn't either
2016-01-03T08:19:23Z ahungry: I guess I've had to do php too much lately, where a package made up of classes (and all internal methods) are passed around by the object level, so $foo->blub() would never conflict with $bar->blub(), since the method is internal to the object
2016-01-03T08:19:56Z H4ns: cool story bro
2016-01-03T08:20:52Z Bicyclidine: the basic point is that there are no fancy tricks like that: symbols are just read in the current package (though that can incorporate USE and stuff), and symbols with distinct packages are distinct symbols.
2016-01-03T08:21:19Z Bicyclidine: so if you want your accessors to have the same symbol for a name, you do that. there are tons of ways you could organize that - put everything in one package, use an api package like hans said, whatevs.
2016-01-03T08:22:00Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T08:23:01Z ahungry: thanks all, night
2016-01-03T08:27:11Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-03T08:28:21Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:28:24Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T08:28:53Z dreamaddict joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:29:29Z dreamaddict: ok I am very confused on how ASDF, Quicklisp, and the whole defpackage thing work together in CLisp
2016-01-03T08:29:45Z dreamaddict: it makes me wish for Python’s “import” :P
2016-01-03T08:29:54Z beach: What's stopping you?
2016-01-03T08:30:11Z dreamaddict: I don’t grasp how it’s hooked up already :P
2016-01-03T08:30:20Z beach: I mean, go use Python.
2016-01-03T08:30:29Z beach: Furthermore, CLISP is an implementation of Common Lisp.
2016-01-03T08:30:38Z White_Flame: quicklisp finds & downloads ASDF systems for you.  ASDF defines what files go into systems, and how they're downloaded.  Packages are kind of orthogonal to all of that; the code that systems load in can be in whatever package the source code declares
2016-01-03T08:30:43Z beach: If you want to abbreviate Common Lisp, "CL" is preferable.
2016-01-03T08:30:50Z dreamaddict: gotcha
2016-01-03T08:30:50Z White_Flame: s/downloaded/loaded/
2016-01-03T08:31:29Z White_Flame: ASDF predated quicklisp; QL is a nice helper which adds "download from the internet" on top of ASDF's "find this system on disk"
2016-01-03T08:32:01Z dreamaddict: ok so ASDF is the cake and QL is the frosting
2016-01-03T08:32:22Z kazlock quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T08:32:46Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:33:09Z White_Flame: Probably the biggest confusion is that systems & packages are completely independent
2016-01-03T08:33:23Z beach: And ASDF and Quicklisp manage "systems", whereas DEFPACKAGE creates a package, which is not like packages in other languages.
2016-01-03T08:33:48Z White_Flame: you can load a system called "cl-utilities", and it could define packages "util-networking" and "old-utils" or whatever
2016-01-03T08:34:15Z White_Flame: the name "cl-utilities" is just a label for the whole system, and has nothing to do with how the actual code is accessed & called
2016-01-03T08:34:19Z dreamaddict: also, I find some .lisp code on github, it’s supposed to do some neat things but there is a ton of .asd and .lisp files and then I wonder, what do I type into the code that I am writing to use which file
2016-01-03T08:34:49Z mohaa joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:35:06Z dreamaddict: or, which file of all of the files is the default “face” of the package…and then where do those files go?  in a separate folder?  how then do you distribute whatever you make from a mass of .lisp files?
2016-01-03T08:35:10Z White_Flame: the easiest would be to drop that whole directory into ~/quicklisp/local-projects (or symlink from local-projects to a dir holding the git clone), and (ql:quickload "system-name")
2016-01-03T08:35:21Z White_Flame: where the system name generally matches the .asd files
2016-01-03T08:37:01Z mohaa is now known as RV591
2016-01-03T08:37:11Z dreamaddict: once the Lisp system has analogues in my brain to C/Python/other languages it’ll probably be a bit easier to grasp
2016-01-03T08:37:36Z beach: It often doesn't.
2016-01-03T08:38:11Z dreamaddict: well…some of it does, a little bit, right?
2016-01-03T08:39:04Z White_Flame: consider C, where a system would be like the directory name of the source code project
2016-01-03T08:39:21Z White_Flame: has nothing to do with the function names or C++ namespace
2016-01-03T08:39:42Z White_Flame: whereas a C++ namespace would be somewhat akin to a Lisp package
2016-01-03T08:39:59Z RV591 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-03T08:41:11Z White_Flame: python directly maps directory names in the language, while Java also makes filenames & class names match.  Lisp, C/C++, etc don't do that
2016-01-03T08:42:20Z dreamaddict: ok hmmm
2016-01-03T08:43:37Z dreamaddict: because if I were naively designing a package system, I’d want to store a list somewhere mostly permanent that ties a library name to a directory and wad of files
2016-01-03T08:44:18Z White_Flame: ASDF does do that
2016-01-03T08:44:27Z dreamaddict: and then whip up something where you could query the “master list” and just use something like Python’s import…(import lib ‘MP3-AUDIO’)
2016-01-03T08:44:32Z dreamaddict: ok so ASDF has a registry
2016-01-03T08:44:32Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T08:44:34Z H4ns: dreamaddict: you'd do that if you'd take files and directories as granted, but that was not the case when common lisp was designed.
2016-01-03T08:44:46Z White_Flame: it has a registry of directories to search in, and finds .asd files.  The system is then directory-relative to that .asd file
2016-01-03T08:44:46Z dreamaddict: that I have heard
2016-01-03T08:45:31Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:45:34Z heranort: how can i speak to someone in IRC that is visible to everybody, but not using the private message?
2016-01-03T08:45:44Z White_Flame: quicklisp then also adds its downloaded repositories, and ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ to that, as well as (I believe it's on QL's end) defaults to recursively search directories for asd files, so you can just symlink to a deep parent
2016-01-03T08:45:55Z White_Flame: heranort: you just did
2016-01-03T08:46:11Z heranort: no, i want to speak to exactly someone
2016-01-03T08:46:19Z White_Flame: heranort: I just did
2016-01-03T08:46:30Z heranort: White_Flame: like this?
2016-01-03T08:46:42Z White_Flame: sure.  Your irc client might also do tab-completion on names
2016-01-03T08:47:06Z heranort: wow. i just find how cool my client is....
2016-01-03T08:47:08Z dreamaddict: where is the asdf registry located (usually)?
2016-01-03T08:47:30Z White_Flame: asdf:*central-registry*
2016-01-03T08:47:48Z White_Flame: (push "my/dir" asdf:*central-registry*) to add a location
2016-01-03T08:47:48Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T08:48:31Z synchromesh: White_Flame: *CENTRAL-REGISTRY* is deprecated; the full ASDF config story is at https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#Controlling-where-ASDF-searches-for-systems
2016-01-03T08:48:37Z White_Flame: good to know
2016-01-03T08:48:40Z dreamaddict: does QL automatically install asdf?  I just tried that in my REPL and it did not work
2016-01-03T08:48:41Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:49:01Z White_Flame: yes, QL is pretty good at "just take care of it"
2016-01-03T08:50:09Z heranort: dreamaddict: did you put the asdf:*central-registry* into parenthesis?
2016-01-03T08:50:14Z synchromesh: dreamaddict: AFAIK most Lisp implementations ship with a more-or-less up-to-date ASDF these days.
2016-01-03T08:50:14Z dreamaddict: yep
2016-01-03T08:50:16Z heranort: remove them if you did
2016-01-03T08:50:35Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T08:50:37Z dreamaddict: ok, it’s in the quicklisp directory
2016-01-03T08:50:51Z nostoi joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:51:30Z dreamaddict: it would also be cool if there were something that one could invoke to copy every dependent code file into a directory for shipping a project
2016-01-03T08:51:55Z synchromesh: dreamaddict: I'm using ASDF for that at the moment.
2016-01-03T08:51:59Z heranort: how to write GUI programs in CL? I've tried many of the packages, tk, gtk, and something else. but they look ugly on my retina screen. is there any solution?
2016-01-03T08:51:59Z White_Flame: QL has such a feature either in progress or completed
2016-01-03T08:52:06Z dreamaddict: oh nice
2016-01-03T08:52:21Z dreamaddict: I guess one thing about Lisp is that it’s not compiled, strictly speaking, everything stays loose
2016-01-03T08:52:26Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:52:31Z synchromesh: dreamaddict: That's why I have the "how to configure ASDF" link close to hand. :)
2016-01-03T08:52:32Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:52:45Z dreamaddict: which is great for only one machine, but starts to boggle me thinking of how that works for distributions and whatnot
2016-01-03T08:53:20Z White_Flame: heranort: iirc, commonqt is well regarded.  I tend to talk to browsers, which takes care of a lot of the front end
2016-01-03T08:53:31Z dreamaddict: heranort:  if you find a good answer to that let me know
2016-01-03T08:53:43Z synchromesh: dreamaddict: ASDF will manage (re-)compiling files as needed, so for delivery you have to tell it not to do that.
2016-01-03T08:54:02Z heranort: White_Flame: is FFI a good idea?
2016-01-03T08:54:12Z White_Flame: heranort: "good" is relative to your project
2016-01-03T08:54:14Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:54:18Z MrWoohoo2 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T08:54:38Z synchromesh: heranort: I'm running ABCL on the JVM, so it's not just a good idea, it's the law.
2016-01-03T08:54:53Z heranort: hmm.. i just want my assignment to be robust and not very ugly.
2016-01-03T08:55:19Z synchromesh: heranort: Values to variables, or due in on Monday?
2016-01-03T08:55:35Z heranort: no, i'll do that in next semester.
2016-01-03T08:56:16Z heranort: a easy-to-use one, probably. light-weight and robust
2016-01-03T08:56:23Z heranort: not crashing so often
2016-01-03T08:56:44Z heranort: like sdl, i tried its example and it crashed after 15 secs.
2016-01-03T08:57:06Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T08:58:50Z White_Flame: does the free version of CCL come with any Mac UI stuff?
2016-01-03T08:59:20Z heranort: clozure cl is about to get outdated on gui, i guess.
2016-01-03T09:01:35Z heranort: it has the GUI stuff called "obj-c bridge" so isn't that a kind of FFI?
2016-01-03T09:02:17Z wol quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T09:04:15Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T09:04:36Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:05:40Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:06:19Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T09:08:45Z synchromesh: heranort: I would've said so, yes.
2016-01-03T09:10:10Z heranort: synchromesh: so there's only three approaches left, commonqt4, web and commercial lispworks.
2016-01-03T09:11:23Z synchromesh: heranort: There's a crowd that are packaging a web-based front-end as a native application GUI framework, but I can't remember what they're called.
2016-01-03T09:12:45Z heranort: synchromesh: alright. i'll keep my eyes on that. thank you anyway. so it's my job to get down to learn common qt :)
2016-01-03T09:13:41Z White_Flame: synchromesh: like webkit?
2016-01-03T09:14:14Z heranort: i truly hope cl has the gui tools like racket does.
2016-01-03T09:14:31Z ecraven: heranort: SLIME is the best :)
2016-01-03T09:14:37Z synchromesh: White_Flame: Like using webkit in your native app, yes.
2016-01-03T09:14:55Z heranort: ecraven: slime? you mean run gui on Emacs?
2016-01-03T09:14:55Z White_Flame: heranort: all the commercial Lisps tend to have full native UI builders
2016-01-03T09:14:57Z synchromesh: Google showed me this, which is a pretty good read: http://eudoxia.me/article/common-lisp-sotu-2015/
2016-01-03T09:15:22Z White_Flame also recommends that link
2016-01-03T09:15:28Z synchromesh: Doesn't mention the GUI thing I was thinking of, though.
2016-01-03T09:15:30Z heranort: White_Flame: student, poor, no approach to that...
2016-01-03T09:15:42Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T09:16:22Z ecraven: heranort: maybe there are academic versions for students?
2016-01-03T09:16:25Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T09:16:29Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T09:17:01Z heranort: yeah, and even the academic version, lispworks is enough to drive me crazy.
2016-01-03T09:18:33Z heranort: it does has the free version but doesn't support to produce executables. maybe i can pack all the lispworks to my teacher...
2016-01-03T09:18:45Z synchromesh: Ah, here it is: http://ceramic.github.io/
2016-01-03T09:18:57Z synchromesh: "Turn web applications into native desktop apps."
2016-01-03T09:19:16Z White_Flame: Electron, that's it.  I was searching for Element :-P
2016-01-03T09:19:17Z synchromesh: heranort: LispWorks is great if you can afford it.
2016-01-03T09:19:52Z heranort: synchromesh: so use the ceramic I can write webpages and turn it into native desktop apps?
2016-01-03T09:20:22Z synchromesh: heranort: Dude, I found the link for you, but you're going to have to actually read the page(s) yourself... :)
2016-01-03T09:21:25Z heranort: yeah. i'll do that later. the poor net speed is not enough to open that page currently.
2016-01-03T09:22:10Z nostoi quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-03T09:23:17Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T09:24:28Z heranort quit
2016-01-03T09:25:27Z synchromesh: You're welcome...
2016-01-03T09:25:40Z m0li quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T09:26:04Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:28:48Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:32:15Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T09:32:40Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:35:19Z jeti joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:35:43Z jeti is now known as Guest77375
2016-01-03T09:37:28Z Bahman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-03T09:38:07Z dreamaddict: what some of this looks like, correct me if I am wrong, is using the web browser locally in order to be a GUI
2016-01-03T09:39:17Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:39:44Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:41:21Z synchromesh: dreamaddict: That's the impression I was getting also: "Electron uses web pages as its GUI, so you could also see it as a minimal Chromium browser, controlled by JavaScript."
2016-01-03T09:42:07Z synchromesh: And it's based on Node.js.
2016-01-03T09:42:35Z dreamaddict: the amount of files it just installed on my machine is insane
2016-01-03T09:42:57Z dreamaddict: I just wonder how easily portable this is…I have a project I’d like to do, a client/server thing
2016-01-03T09:43:31Z dreamaddict: I really like Lisp for…everything except for making a nice, tidy, easily distributable package out of a mass of code, apparently
2016-01-03T09:43:54Z synchromesh: LispWorks can do it. :)
2016-01-03T09:43:59Z dreamaddict: but every time I think I know what is going on, someone posts a Lisp library like this (Ceramic)…and I love it
2016-01-03T09:45:02Z Heranort_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T09:45:46Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T09:47:03Z dreamaddict: but then I think, what if I wrote something with it, how on Earth would someone else run it?
2016-01-03T09:48:00Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:48:24Z dreamaddict: aaand there’s “Shipping” on the Ceramic website and you know what I’ll just shet mah mouf and check out this fantastic looking piece of software…
2016-01-03T09:48:30Z dreamaddict: thank you synchromesh for that tip :D
2016-01-03T09:49:01Z synchromesh: dreamaddict: You're welcome :)
2016-01-03T09:49:48Z dreamaddict: it’s things like this, and the OpenGL CEPL demo video I saw that make me really wish I could code all of my things in Lisp
2016-01-03T09:50:10Z dreamaddict: the CEPL demo had a guy coding graphics by hot-compiling
2016-01-03T09:50:36Z synchromesh: dreamaddict: I agree, CEPL is something I'd like to spend more time on myself.
2016-01-03T09:51:18Z synchromesh: Using something like Varjo to write WebGL shaders in CL for VR in the browser... yes please.
2016-01-03T09:51:54Z dreamaddict: the only thing I am running into so far in my novice exploration of this language is “how well does it play with other, less cool, languages?”
2016-01-03T09:52:35Z dreamaddict: the honest answer is, I have no idea what resources are available to even answer that question properly, but every time I think something is lacking, it turns out that there is a sweet sweet sweet implementation of it
2016-01-03T09:52:48Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T09:53:05Z shookees joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:53:11Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:54:11Z synchromesh: Yes, the general situation is pretty good and is only getting better.
2016-01-03T09:54:31Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:54:59Z pjb: ahungry: you don't read cll, do you?
2016-01-03T09:55:05Z pjb: ahungry: you should read cll.
2016-01-03T09:55:55Z dreamaddict: one thing I could say is:  the list of resources available to Quicklisp is…tough to decipher for a newb
2016-01-03T09:56:07Z pjb: ahungry: for example, if you read cll, you wouldn't have missed: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/comp.lang.lisp$20pjb$20package$20interface/comp.lang.lisp/Q9DiBvnVGrg/mL4ZrQWmBgAJ
2016-01-03T09:56:49Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-03T09:57:09Z dreamaddict: I can’t tell what does what, or what packages are more “serious” than others, other than maybe guessing by the list of dependencies…there is no hierarchy that says, for example, that Alexandria and Babel are must-have
2016-01-03T09:58:01Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T10:00:40Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:01:42Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:05:21Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-03T10:09:35Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:11:15Z HardWall quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T10:11:51Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:12:08Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:13:07Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T10:13:50Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:14:01Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:17:07Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-03T10:18:19Z malbertife quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T10:18:52Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:20:13Z shookees quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-03T10:21:28Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:26:21Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:27:12Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:33:55Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T10:36:32Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-03T10:40:39Z dmiles_afk: where are most recent benchmarks between impls?  I am looking specifically to see how ECL stacks up
2016-01-03T10:43:47Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:44:06Z HardWall quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T10:44:36Z sea`` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:45:16Z sea``: oOoooh, I absolutely /hate/ that #'sort in common lisp can destroy its argument. I just ended 10 hours of debugging and it boiled down to that. It was editing a list that I was using
2016-01-03T10:45:39Z futpib_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:45:55Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T10:46:18Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:47:02Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T10:47:30Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T10:47:41Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T10:48:04Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:48:04Z pjb: sea``: (defun safe-sort (seq test &key (key (function identity))) (sort (copy-seq seq) test :key key))
2016-01-03T10:48:38Z sea``: That's exactly what I did! Except for the name. I'm trying to figure out how I'll remind myself to use that instead of sort
2016-01-03T10:49:17Z White_Flame: be a man and call it common-lisp:sort  ;)
2016-01-03T10:49:29Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:50:32Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:50:52Z pwnie quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T10:51:05Z pjb: sea``: (defpackage "SEA-LISP" (:nicknames "SL") (:shadow "SORT") (:use "CL") (:export . #.(let (e) (do-external-symbols (s "CL" e) (push (symbol-name s) e)))))  (in-package  "SEA-LISP") (defun sort (seq test &key (key (function identity))) (cl:sort (copy-seq seq) test :key key))
2016-01-03T10:51:12Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:51:19Z pjb: then (:use "SL") instead of (:use "CL").
2016-01-03T10:51:20Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T10:52:18Z pjb: (defpackage "SEA-LISP-USER" (:nicknames "SL-USER") (:use "SL")) (in-package "SL-USER") ; instead of "CL-USER".
2016-01-03T10:53:56Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:53:59Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:54:35Z sea``: That's just shifting what I have to remember.. I'm going to add a line to my init file that makes it shadow the usual sort
2016-01-03T10:55:08Z pjb: sea``: it's factoring it out, since you will have a lot of other functions to "patch" like this.
2016-01-03T10:55:46Z pjb: further, it's easy to write a lisp function to scan all your source for defpackage and warn on :use "CL".
2016-01-03T10:55:54Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:57:33Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-03T10:58:26Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T11:06:18Z abeaumont quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-03T11:08:38Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:10:27Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:14:42Z shka: sea``: i don't see why do you hate this
2016-01-03T11:15:09Z shka: you would have to add additonal O(n) to your sorting
2016-01-03T11:15:18Z shka: not exactly great
2016-01-03T11:15:22Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-03T11:16:21Z Guest773` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:18:17Z dreamaddict: given all of that rigamarole
2016-01-03T11:18:20Z Guest77375 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T11:18:25Z dreamaddict: I’d rather just remember the (copy-seq)
2016-01-03T11:19:43Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-03T11:20:29Z |3b|: shka: because it is error prone and easy to forget. if there is only one, the destructive version is possibly preferable since you can build the safe version out of that but not the other way around, but lots of other CL functions have a destructive and non-destructive version, so why not sort
2016-01-03T11:21:11Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:21:57Z shka: well, i would prefer to just have guaranteen about sort
2016-01-03T11:22:12Z shka: since i find myself using sortf macro often
2016-01-03T11:24:38Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:25:00Z abeaumont joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:26:51Z Heranort quit
2016-01-03T11:27:30Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:29:44Z pjb is now known as ogam
2016-01-03T11:30:05Z jeti joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:30:29Z jeti is now known as Guest35797
2016-01-03T11:30:35Z Guest773` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T11:32:45Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:35:15Z Guest35797 is now known as je4i
2016-01-03T11:39:02Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:39:54Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T11:40:26Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T11:42:44Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:45:35Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:46:00Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T11:46:24Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T11:54:46Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:55:24Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T11:57:48Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T11:59:15Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T12:01:23Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T12:01:55Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-03T12:03:28Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:05:03Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:05:26Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-03T12:06:12Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-03T12:06:54Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:07:01Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T12:12:02Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:14:10Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T12:15:03Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:19:47Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:19:51Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:19:55Z je4i quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-03T12:21:32Z je4i` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-03T12:22:04Z lnostdal_ is now known as lnostdal
2016-01-03T12:22:11Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:22:35Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:22:48Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:25:09Z moore33: "Lemonodor-fame is but a hack away!" Does lemonodor still do Lisp?
2016-01-03T12:25:22Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:25:27Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:25:27Z dlowe quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T12:26:34Z sbryant quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-03T12:30:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T12:32:05Z synchromesh: No, he's moved on to drones.
2016-01-03T12:32:25Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:34:26Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T12:34:55Z moore33: That's still cool.
2016-01-03T12:35:15Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:35:31Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:35:54Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:35:57Z synchromesh: He might still be using Lisp, but he doesn't blog about it any more. His new blog is http://lemondronor.com/
2016-01-03T12:36:50Z lurker joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:36:59Z moore33: He frequented #lisp a lot back in the day.
2016-01-03T12:37:31Z lurker: Hie! I want to compare two algorythm together in term of complexity, so I want to calculate the time each takes to compute; how can I do that in CL? Thanks!
2016-01-03T12:38:02Z lurker: I think that there is a function like trace which calculate the time a function makes to compute
2016-01-03T12:38:39Z _death: clhs time
2016-01-03T12:38:39Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_time.htm
2016-01-03T12:38:55Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:39:19Z lurker: thanks you!
2016-01-03T12:45:06Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-03T12:47:12Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:51:27Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T12:51:46Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T12:52:37Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:53:13Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-03T12:55:18Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:55:18Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-03T12:55:18Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:55:31Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T12:57:15Z ogam: lurker: you would obviously use a code walker, to determine the data flow and the complexity of the control flow, thus obtaining an O(…) expression.  You could then use a symbolic simplifier to get a simple expression of it.
2016-01-03T13:00:03Z rpg quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-03T13:00:06Z rpg_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:02:20Z lurker: ogam: I take notes, and I'll study what you just gave me. Thanks!
2016-01-03T13:03:29Z xxuejie joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:03:39Z xxuejie left #lisp
2016-01-03T13:07:02Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T13:07:11Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:07:59Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:10:35Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T13:10:47Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T13:11:12Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:11:12Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-03T13:11:12Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:12:57Z TMM quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T13:16:48Z rpg_ quit (Quit: rpg_)
2016-01-03T13:17:10Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:19:52Z papachan` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:20:37Z sea``: shka: I'll take the extra O(n). I don't really mind. The lispy program I'm running now takes about half a week to complete normally. The slower sorts just tack perhaps an hour or so on, and that's nothing major to me. What /is/ major, though, is forgetting the behavior of sort and running the program for a full day, only to then have it stop unexpectedly and print garbage, and then to have to spend yet /another/ day on top of that
2016-01-03T13:20:37Z sea``: tracking down the bug
2016-01-03T13:21:14Z shka: oh
2016-01-03T13:21:20Z shka: why it takes so long?
2016-01-03T13:24:57Z sea``: because it's a big problem, and this particular instance of it takes this long to solve
2016-01-03T13:25:46Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:27:10Z sea``: That's a bad reason. It's a program to solve a problem that can't be solved in less than a polyomial number of steps in the input size, and this particular input size is large enough to make it take this long
2016-01-03T13:27:27Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:33:21Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:34:02Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:38:31Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:42:45Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:44:33Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T13:45:15Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T13:46:24Z MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz
2016-01-03T13:47:14Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:49:41Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-03T13:51:11Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-03T13:53:26Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:06:30Z xxuejie joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:07:26Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:11:35Z xxuejie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T14:17:23Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:18:21Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:18:49Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:19:02Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T14:20:00Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-03T14:21:46Z MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz
2016-01-03T14:28:38Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T14:31:00Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T14:31:30Z eazar001 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-03T14:32:49Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:33:20Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T14:33:32Z munge joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:39:41Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:39:43Z xxuejie joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:40:26Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:41:38Z shka: sea``: i'm wonder what you are doing
2016-01-03T14:43:09Z shrdlu68: Hello, what's the common lisp equivalent of C's fseek?
2016-01-03T14:43:29Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:43:35Z H4ns: shrdlu68: not quite equivalent, but similar: file-position
2016-01-03T14:44:23Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T14:44:48Z shrdlu68: H4ns: It's exactly what I was wishing for, thanks!
2016-01-03T14:46:19Z xxuejie left #lisp
2016-01-03T14:48:00Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:49:03Z goru joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:49:30Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:51:17Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:52:50Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T14:55:12Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:56:54Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T14:58:13Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T15:02:35Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T15:07:38Z je4i`` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:09:46Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:11:05Z je4i` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T15:15:54Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T15:17:46Z tos-1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T15:20:58Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:25:36Z lurker is now known as greenismypepper_
2016-01-03T15:27:55Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:27:55Z rpg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T15:28:06Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:28:52Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:29:10Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:29:11Z HardWall quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-03T15:29:44Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:30:35Z HardWall quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-03T15:31:12Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:31:24Z \var joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:32:20Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:32:39Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T15:32:58Z je4i`` quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-03T15:33:50Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T15:33:57Z je4i`` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:35:35Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:35:50Z urandom__ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:35:55Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:37:27Z HardWall quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T15:38:47Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:42:45Z shrdlu68 left #lisp
2016-01-03T15:46:24Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:46:59Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-03T15:51:31Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-03T15:53:51Z moore33 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T15:56:00Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:58:12Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:58:36Z sweater is now known as Guest67686
2016-01-03T15:59:04Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T15:59:20Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T16:03:43Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:04:50Z papachan` quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T16:05:20Z xmad joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:07:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T16:08:58Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:09:59Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:11:36Z goru quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T16:11:46Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:13:50Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:15:08Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-03T16:15:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T16:23:34Z over quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-03T16:23:41Z over joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:23:44Z over quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-03T16:24:46Z over joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:28:51Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:31:14Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T16:35:05Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T16:38:35Z pbgc quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
2016-01-03T16:45:58Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:48:49Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:49:00Z easye joined #lisp
2016-01-03T16:53:34Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T16:56:17Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-03T16:57:50Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-03T16:58:32Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-03T17:01:22Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:01:26Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:09:54Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:09:54Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-03T17:09:54Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:14:12Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:18:54Z Guest67686 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T17:23:09Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:23:14Z ieure joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:26:39Z dlowe joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:27:59Z sea`` left #lisp
2016-01-03T17:34:19Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T17:36:35Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T17:36:45Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:36:49Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:37:22Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-03T17:37:44Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:39:44Z test1600 quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-03T17:46:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T17:47:31Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:51:07Z d00der joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:57:53Z Lord_of_- quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-03T17:58:17Z jlarocco joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:59:06Z Lord_of_- joined #lisp
2016-01-03T17:59:37Z jlarocco quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T18:01:00Z d00der quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T18:03:25Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:06:49Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T18:07:31Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-03T18:17:03Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:32:11Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:33:50Z cpc26_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:34:27Z wgslayer joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:34:30Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T18:38:39Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:39:52Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-03T18:40:22Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T18:40:44Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:41:31Z papachan` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:47:58Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T18:49:38Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:49:45Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:49:54Z hardenedapple quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-03T18:50:36Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T18:51:15Z ieure: Is there a reasonable template somewhere that I can look at, which builds a standalone binary?
2016-01-03T18:51:22Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T18:51:40Z ieure: I'm thrashing around in the ASDF documentation, but having a hard time figuring out how to build a thing.
2016-01-03T18:54:02Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T18:54:21Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-03T18:55:23Z H4ns: ieure: have a look at quickproject
2016-01-03T18:55:45Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-03T18:57:17Z ieure: H4ns, Thank you, that looks promising.
2016-01-03T18:57:49Z drmeister: Hello everyone
2016-01-03T18:58:24Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T18:59:02Z Xach: quickproject doesn't really build a standalone binary, though.
2016-01-03T18:59:43Z H4ns: true enough, sorry.  they'll probably also need buildapp
2016-01-03T19:00:30Z pwnie quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-03T19:01:38Z ieure: Won't ASDF build me a monolithic bin?
2016-01-03T19:02:27Z H4ns: i don't think it does, but i have not followed recent asdf additions.  i use buildapp to build my monolith.
2016-01-03T19:04:27Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:07:05Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:07:05Z Xach: ASDF does do it
2016-01-03T19:07:10Z Xach: asdf:build-op is the thing
2016-01-03T19:07:20Z phax quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-03T19:07:25Z Xach: I continue to use buildapp because I don't know how asdf's thing works
2016-01-03T19:08:11Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:08:30Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:13:05Z papachan` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-03T19:17:00Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:17:34Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-03T19:18:17Z dim: there's also https://github.com/renard/cl-image-builder that allows --self-upgrade of the binary from a source checkout, telling ASDF not to try to find and reload all the dependencies
2016-01-03T19:18:26Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T19:18:39Z dim: dunno if asdf:build-op newer enhancements deprecate cl-image-builder
2016-01-03T19:18:44Z dim: (or buildapp)
2016-01-03T19:22:38Z dim: my use case here: being able to use the pgloader binary image (bin dist) to install a patch/fix: git clone pgloader sources, /usr/bin/pgloader --self-upgrade /path/to/sources ...; bugfix available without asking for any CL dev env
2016-01-03T19:25:07Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T19:25:17Z GLS_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:26:33Z GLS_ left #lisp
2016-01-03T19:29:22Z GLS_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:30:00Z norfumpit joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:30:07Z norfumpit quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T19:30:54Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T19:32:39Z norfumpit joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:33:56Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:35:23Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-03T19:35:23Z tos-1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T19:36:01Z GLS_ left #lisp
2016-01-03T19:37:20Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:37:27Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:39:23Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:39:43Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:40:17Z fourier: Why this doesn't work? http://paste.lisp.org/display/304488
2016-01-03T19:40:25Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T19:42:07Z norfumpit quit (Quit: See You, Space Cowboy ...)
2016-01-03T19:42:25Z fourier: shouldn't flet define a lexical context with functions for eval ?
2016-01-03T19:43:09Z H4ns: fourier: eval always operates in a null lexical environment.
2016-01-03T19:43:22Z fourier: aah, ok
2016-01-03T19:43:41Z warweasle quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-03T19:43:46Z fourier: thanks!
2016-01-03T19:44:55Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T19:47:24Z ggole_ quit
2016-01-03T19:50:23Z je4i`` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T19:51:12Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:00:34Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:07:02Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T20:11:54Z zbigniew quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T20:16:35Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T20:20:30Z kami` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:20:42Z kami` is now known as kami
2016-01-03T20:20:54Z kami: Good evening.
2016-01-03T20:20:58Z kami: AeroNotix: ping
2016-01-03T20:24:32Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:26:57Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:29:02Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:31:42Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T20:32:22Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-03T20:33:50Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:34:48Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-03T20:38:00Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:44:31Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:44:50Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:46:20Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T20:48:25Z je4i`` joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:49:44Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T20:50:28Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:55:05Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T20:57:54Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-03T20:59:47Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-03T20:59:58Z Th30n_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:01:43Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-03T21:03:20Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T21:03:51Z Th30n_ is now known as Th30n
2016-01-03T21:05:03Z je4i`` is now known as je4i
2016-01-03T21:05:45Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:06:24Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:07:18Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T21:07:26Z Guest67686 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:09:00Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T21:10:56Z lisse_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:11:39Z lisse_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-03T21:11:43Z yvm quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T21:13:27Z bugrum joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:13:59Z AeroNotix: kami: pong?
2016-01-03T21:14:33Z AeroNotix: sorry for the late response
2016-01-03T21:16:06Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T21:16:08Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T21:18:27Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:19:32Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:22:10Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:25:12Z bugrum quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T21:30:15Z mlrutherford left #lisp
2016-01-03T21:31:41Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-03T21:33:27Z ajf- quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T21:37:47Z tos-1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T21:37:56Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:38:15Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T21:42:48Z happy-dude quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T21:48:57Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-03T21:54:27Z kami: AeroNotix: I have worked a bit on cl-zk. I have used Verrazano to automatically create the cffi bindings.
2016-01-03T21:55:14Z kami: Would you mind if I use stefil for testing?
2016-01-03T21:56:35Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-03T22:02:14Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-03T22:02:19Z greenismypepper_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T22:04:41Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T22:05:19Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-03T22:06:55Z AeroNotix: sure gfi
2016-01-03T22:07:01Z AeroNotix: kami: if you want
2016-01-03T22:07:51Z kami: AeroNotix: and what is more important: did you have any problems with multithreading?
2016-01-03T22:08:23Z kami: I have some irregular crashes of sbcl when using make-connection with :log-callback
2016-01-03T22:10:05Z je4i: kami: what are advantages of stefil compared to other testing libs
2016-01-03T22:12:11Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-03T22:12:30Z nyef: ... I heard "SBCL" and "crash" in the same sentence without a disjunction. I don't like that.
2016-01-03T22:12:38Z AeroNotix: kami: yeah, in the source I noted that the log-callback version is a bit wonky. I think that's something underlying in the zk library
2016-01-03T22:12:59Z \var quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-03T22:13:31Z kami: nyef: AeroNotix and I are working on a cffi based library to interface to zookeeper
2016-01-03T22:13:58Z kami: there is a single- and a multi-threaded version of the zookeeper C library
2016-01-03T22:14:24Z nyef: Ah, okay.
2016-01-03T22:14:33Z nyef: A lot less worrisome for me, then.
2016-01-03T22:15:08Z kami: when using the mt one, I sometimes get this message when in C-land pthread_create is called: * fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 6200(tid 140737050081024): GC invariant lost, file "thread.c", line 309
2016-01-03T22:15:59Z AeroNotix: yikes that's weird. kami can you reproduce?
2016-01-03T22:16:03Z AeroNotix: easily?
2016-01-03T22:16:26Z guiloooo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T22:16:44Z kami:  AeroNotix: it happens often, but not each and every time.
2016-01-03T22:17:41Z nyef: Wait, wait... Something other than the SBCL runtime is calling pthread_create()?
2016-01-03T22:17:45Z AeroNotix: kami: show a gist of your code/make an issue on github? Interesting issue but I've been driving for 6+ hours today and I'm totally spent.
2016-01-03T22:17:49Z AeroNotix: nyef: likely the zk library
2016-01-03T22:18:01Z nyef: That might be the issue. ISTR that that's bad mojo.
2016-01-03T22:18:32Z nyef: Especially if it then tries to invoke a Lisp-side callback.
2016-01-03T22:18:43Z nyef: (If the new thread tries, that is.)
2016-01-03T22:18:46Z kami: nyef: that's exactly what happens.
2016-01-03T22:18:56Z AeroNotix: lol, nice nyef
2016-01-03T22:19:03Z nyef: That might be guaranteed not to work.
2016-01-03T22:19:10Z kami: nyef: is there a workaround or should we stick to the single-threaded library?
2016-01-03T22:19:48Z nyef: I'm... not sure, actually.
2016-01-03T22:20:07Z nyef: This is part of the threading infrastructure that might or might not have been improved since the last time I messed with it.
2016-01-03T22:20:15Z nyef: You might be better off sticking to the single-threaded library.
2016-01-03T22:21:28Z nyef: Looks like it's been about five years since the last time I did any heavy lifting on the thread stuff?
2016-01-03T22:22:04Z AeroNotix: nyef: noted, thanks
2016-01-03T22:22:05Z nyef: (The initial push to get threading working on a non-x86oid target... And even then, it turned out that I missed a few bits.)
2016-01-03T22:23:38Z kami: AeroNotix: I will switch to libzookeeper_st and get back. When will you be around here, tomorrow?
2016-01-03T22:23:54Z kami: nyef: thank you for your help
2016-01-03T22:24:20Z nyef: Not a problem. Good luck, and I hope that you get things working.
2016-01-03T22:24:34Z nyef: ... and that eventually SBCL can handle this sort of thread damage gracefully...
2016-01-03T22:24:50Z AeroNotix: kami: yeah definitely.
2016-01-03T22:25:26Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-03T22:26:33Z kami: nyef, AeroNotix: it seems to work flawlessly with the single-threaded version of the libzookeeper
2016-01-03T22:26:49Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T22:27:00Z AeroNotix: amazing.
2016-01-03T22:27:16Z p_l: kami: why not write a native interface to zookeeper?
2016-01-03T22:27:23Z AeroNotix: p_l: tried it. Such a pain in the arse
2016-01-03T22:27:33Z AeroNotix: there are a lot of undocumented binary protocols and such
2016-01-03T22:27:56Z AeroNotix: basically I ended up wiresharking two other implentations to figure out what to do
2016-01-03T22:28:02Z AeroNotix: just a waste of my time
2016-01-03T22:28:08Z AeroNotix: seems that using cffi might be simpler to implement
2016-01-03T22:28:33Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T22:28:34Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-03T22:28:38Z p_l: just be aware that some Hadoop-related protocols are implemented through JNI...
2016-01-03T22:28:55Z p_l: I'm not sure I want to know what happens when JVM and SBCL fight in one process group xD
2016-01-03T22:29:02Z nyef: Maybe we need a C-to-SBCL or C-to-Lisp compiler, so that the bullshit involved is different?
2016-01-03T22:29:12Z AeroNotix: nyef: meta bullshit, if you will.
2016-01-03T22:29:24Z nyef: p_l: Most likely to work on 32-bit windows. Least likely to work everywhere else.
2016-01-03T22:29:38Z kami: p_l: you mean the C lib loads the java lib to do the work? Let me check.
2016-01-03T22:29:49Z p_l: nyef: well, Windows has SEH, so outside of VMS everything else probably got it worse :<
2016-01-03T22:29:59Z nyef: (And that because 32-bit windows SBCL actually makes some gesture towards SEH interoperability.)
2016-01-03T22:32:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-03T22:32:09Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-03T22:34:13Z p_l: apparently ZooKeeper uses some NIHed up protocol compiler
2016-01-03T22:35:12Z AeroNotix: p_l: yep
2016-01-03T22:35:21Z AeroNotix: exactly why it's a pita
2016-01-03T22:35:51Z kami: p_l: the C library seems to be stand-alone. Parts of the C code are generated from Java code.
2016-01-03T22:37:47Z p_l: jesus, even the "lite" code looks a bit like the original Hadoop protocols
2016-01-03T22:39:03Z p_l: (and those sent packets of java serialized classes
2016-01-03T22:39:33Z kami: je4i: I just happen to have worked with stefil before
2016-01-03T22:39:57Z p_l: why do people invent new crap every time?
2016-01-03T22:41:06Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-03T22:41:56Z nyef: p_l: Because it takes too much effort to figure out how to use the old crap.
2016-01-03T22:43:24Z je4i: used stefil for the first time yesterday (came with clouchdb) and I could not find out how it can show the actual problem diff.
2016-01-03T22:43:26Z p_l: nyef: I think it's sometimes just the effort of filtering out FUD
2016-01-03T22:44:09Z nyef: Sometimes, yes.
2016-01-03T22:44:11Z p_l: nyef: for example, you would hear that "X is bad" but not the details thus spread it further, and then write a new design that is *worse* than X, but you don't know it and hey, it's new, shiny, of course it's better, right?
2016-01-03T22:44:28Z nyef: Or finding actually useful documentation.
2016-01-03T22:44:52Z p_l: nyef: and of course network effects of stuff not getting libs etc. in newer environments
2016-01-03T22:45:23Z p_l: I found out that ONC RPC is probably better (in no-portmap mode) than our current Thrift based RPC (for a project at work)
2016-01-03T22:45:42Z nyef: Yeah, you get "X is bad", but more rarely "here's what X nailed, absolutely, that should be preserved going forward."
2016-01-03T22:46:12Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-03T22:46:18Z p_l: even rarer is getting an Old Bearded One explain "this and this were teething problems and our general naivety"
2016-01-03T22:49:48Z nyef: Like not spelling "creat()" with an e on the end? (-:
2016-01-03T22:51:18Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-03T22:52:12Z les quit (Quit: "")
2016-01-03T22:53:06Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-03T22:53:40Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-03T22:55:55Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-03T22:56:46Z mateuszb_ quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-03T22:57:18Z les quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-03T22:57:27Z p_l: hehehe
2016-01-03T22:58:00Z p_l: that's in the same region as why Pascal is case-insensitive and why classic pascal understands max 10-letter identifiers ;)
2016-01-03T22:58:27Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-03T23:01:47Z kami: AeroNotix: I pushed my changes to my repo
2016-01-03T23:02:48Z kami: Good night.
2016-01-03T23:03:16Z les quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-03T23:03:34Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-03T23:04:01Z les quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T23:04:21Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-03T23:10:38Z pwnie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-03T23:10:40Z les quit (Quit: "")
2016-01-03T23:11:11Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-03T23:16:51Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-03T23:17:37Z les quit (Quit: "")
2016-01-03T23:17:57Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-03T23:22:45Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-03T23:27:39Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-03T23:28:07Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-03T23:30:06Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-03T23:30:12Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-03T23:30:59Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-03T23:32:11Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-03T23:33:47Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-03T23:34:24Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T23:43:56Z les quit (Quit: "")
2016-01-03T23:53:15Z futpib_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-03T23:58:08Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-04T00:01:21Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T00:01:51Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T00:01:58Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-04T00:08:36Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-04T00:18:38Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-04T00:27:26Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T00:32:19Z les quit (Quit: "")
2016-01-04T00:35:20Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-04T00:35:37Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-04T00:36:17Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-04T00:41:35Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T00:45:35Z les quit (Quit: "")
2016-01-04T00:46:05Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T00:48:15Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-04T00:52:05Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T00:52:23Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-04T00:54:25Z ajf- quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-04T00:56:35Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T01:03:24Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:04:58Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:05:43Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:06:45Z je4i quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-04T01:06:49Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-04T01:06:53Z earl-ducaine quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2016-01-04T01:07:58Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:13:57Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-04T01:15:55Z Guest67686 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T01:18:22Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:18:48Z bcoburn_s joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:19:27Z drmeister: I'm trying to sort a list of packages in order of who uses who.  If package A uses B then B should come before A. Most packages don't use any other packages.   My order criteria is if A is in B's use package list then the the ordering function returns T otherwise NIL.
2016-01-04T01:19:34Z drmeister:  I guess this is called a weak ordering?  Do I need to use a special sort (bubble sort - where every element is compared to every other element) or will the general Common Lisp SORT work?
2016-01-04T01:20:04Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T01:20:28Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T01:22:09Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T01:23:46Z Heranort: what stopped you from using the general sort?
2016-01-04T01:24:51Z Heranort: if you don't want to change the position of identical elements, go use the stable-sort function.
2016-01-04T01:24:56Z drmeister: Nothing, I implemented it but I can't convince myself that it will always work properly.
2016-01-04T01:25:47Z drmeister: I think I see my issue.
2016-01-04T01:25:53Z nyef: It's a partial order, so you can't use SORT.
2016-01-04T01:26:00Z drmeister: Say I have a package A that uses package D.
2016-01-04T01:26:20Z drmeister: I describe that with the notation  (A D)
2016-01-04T01:26:57Z drmeister: Sorting the list (A D) (B) (C) (D)  has the problem that there is no way of comparing (A D) to (B) or (C)
2016-01-04T01:27:12Z bcoburn_s_e joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:27:18Z drmeister: nyef: Thanks, is that the technical name for it?  A "partial order"?
2016-01-04T01:28:11Z drmeister: Yes:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partially_ordered_set
2016-01-04T01:28:17Z nyef: The packages ordered by dependencies... yeah, a partially ordered set.
2016-01-04T01:28:20Z Heranort: ah.. that reminds me of "minimum priority queues"
2016-01-04T01:28:34Z bcoburn_s_e: just add an arbitrary extra criteria?  sort by dependencies and then alphabetically or something?
2016-01-04T01:28:45Z bcoburn_s_e is now known as bcoburn
2016-01-04T01:29:12Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:30:02Z nyef: So, you have an unsorted list of packages, and your (initially empty) sorted list of packages. Loop over the unsorted list, moving packages to the sorted list if all of their dependencies are already in the sorted list. If any pass over the unsorted list doesn't move any packages then either the unsorted list is empty or you have a dependency loop.
2016-01-04T01:30:39Z nyef: Oddly enough, asdf package-inferred-system has to do this.
2016-01-04T01:31:14Z bcoburn_s quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T01:32:51Z drmeister: nyef: Thank you.  That is what I need.
2016-01-04T01:33:44Z nyef: You're welcome.
2016-01-04T01:34:13Z nyef: Had to implement this myself a few years ago. (-:
2016-01-04T01:34:57Z drmeister: I'm reorganizing the clasp startup code for several reasons (discoverability of C++ functions, documentation, cleanup).  Everything is now scraped from the C++ code.  I just realized that I need to intern symbols into packages in the correct order or there is trouble.
2016-01-04T01:35:02Z nyef: Your other option is more of a recursive process, going through each package in turn and doing a depth-first search for dependencies not already in the output list.
2016-01-04T01:35:16Z nyef: Which can highlight particular dependency loops.
2016-01-04T01:36:36Z drmeister: I have a pretty short list of packages so I'll use your first algorithm - I see what it does.
2016-01-04T01:37:54Z \var joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:38:18Z nyef: Mmm. And you can see that it always terminates. I think that the DFS process produces better diagnostics for dependency errors, though.
2016-01-04T01:42:45Z drmeister: Noted.
2016-01-04T01:43:18Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:51:53Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:52:16Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T01:53:20Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T01:54:05Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T01:54:57Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:56:04Z pwnie quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-04T01:57:41Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T01:59:03Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T01:59:34Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T02:01:55Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:02:51Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:02:51Z aap quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T02:02:59Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-04T02:02:59Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:04:43Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T02:09:33Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T02:11:09Z baggykiin joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:13:13Z pwnie quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-04T02:13:37Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:27:37Z bcoburn_j joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:30:46Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T02:32:24Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:39:44Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T02:40:21Z xorox90 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:48:09Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:52:55Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:52:56Z shifty joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:52:58Z quazimod1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T02:52:58Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T02:53:15Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:55:59Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T02:57:49Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-04T02:57:55Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T02:57:58Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T03:01:55Z bcoburn_j quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T03:02:50Z yeticry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T03:03:11Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-04T03:05:18Z vydd joined #lisp
2016-01-04T03:06:01Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-04T03:09:04Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2016-01-04T03:09:46Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T03:09:58Z test1600 quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-04T03:13:58Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-04T03:16:50Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T03:20:31Z drmeister: Does the GRAY stream package need to use the COMMON-LISP package?
2016-01-04T03:21:31Z nyef: That would depend on the desired semantics when it is the current package.
2016-01-04T03:22:29Z nyef: Depending on what you're doing, it might be entirely independent, or use :IMPORT-FROM, or similar.
2016-01-04T03:22:47Z nyef: Or it might :USE COMMON-LISP.
2016-01-04T03:24:27Z pwnie quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-04T03:25:43Z drmeister: For generic functions the GRAY package code would use the package qualified names - right?
2016-01-04T03:27:42Z k4rtik quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T03:27:58Z drmeister: What is the rule of thumb for when you do :USE a package?
2016-01-04T03:31:15Z nyef: I have two ways to express dependencies. One is :USE, and the other is :IMPORT-FROM. I will occasionally :IMPORT-FROM a small number of symbols from another package, or will :IMPORT-FROM without symbols. But I will :USE if I'm expecting to want to refer to many of the exported symbols of a package.
2016-01-04T03:32:01Z nyef: Most of the time, I :USE COMMON-LISP.
2016-01-04T03:32:29Z nyef: But most of the time I'm not declaring "interface packages".
2016-01-04T03:32:35Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T03:34:23Z drmeister: Thank you.
2016-01-04T03:35:59Z nyef: You may find that GRAY needs to export certain COMMON-LISP symbols... or vice-versa.
2016-01-04T03:37:42Z alvin` joined #lisp
2016-01-04T03:39:11Z bcoburn_h joined #lisp
2016-01-04T03:39:47Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T03:43:12Z les quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T03:43:59Z bcoburn_h quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-04T03:46:35Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-04T03:50:58Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-04T04:04:24Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-04T04:09:34Z warweasle quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T04:10:53Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T04:14:34Z araujo_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T04:19:56Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-04T04:19:58Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-04T04:21:25Z nyef: Hello beach.
2016-01-04T04:26:39Z blub: hi beach
2016-01-04T04:33:31Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-04T04:35:02Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T04:35:23Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-04T04:35:47Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-04T04:40:03Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-04T04:40:32Z cantstanya is now known as frank
2016-01-04T04:40:43Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-04T04:41:02Z frank is now known as cartwright
2016-01-04T04:45:28Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-04T04:45:46Z warweasle: #unity
2016-01-04T04:48:08Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-04T04:53:46Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T04:55:34Z warweasle is now known as weasle
2016-01-04T04:55:48Z weasle is now known as warweasle
2016-01-04T04:57:54Z alvin` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T04:58:05Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T04:58:28Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-04T04:58:40Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T05:04:52Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:08:05Z tuxbrave_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T05:12:25Z small-wolf joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:14:36Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:17:16Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-04T05:26:32Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:27:30Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-04T05:28:48Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:30:43Z ACE_Recliner quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T05:31:19Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:34:13Z yvm joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:34:38Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:36:29Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:38:02Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-04T05:42:44Z alvin- joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:44:10Z warweasle quit (Quit: Done being productive.)
2016-01-04T05:45:16Z drmeister: Hi beach
2016-01-04T05:51:48Z ogam quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T05:51:54Z ogam joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:53:20Z small-wolf quit (Quit: small-wolf)
2016-01-04T05:53:59Z ogam: drmeister: you just need a topological-sort: (mapcar 'package-name (topological-sort (copy-list (list-all-packages)) (lambda (a b) (member a (package-use-list b)))))
2016-01-04T05:54:29Z tos-1 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T05:54:50Z ogam: com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.utility:topological-sort of course.
2016-01-04T05:56:25Z ogam: Well, not exactly, since there may be cycles (cf. http://paste.lisp.org/display/304509), and this function doesn't return all the nodes in that case.
2016-01-04T05:57:49Z kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-04T05:58:44Z drmeister: ogam: Thanks - does that work for partially ordered sets?
2016-01-04T06:00:13Z ogam: If it doesn't contain cycle, yes. But package-use can have cycles.
2016-01-04T06:00:40Z ogam: topological sort is designed for partially ordered sets.
2016-01-04T06:01:25Z ogam: My implementation will have to be extended to deal with cycles (it should gather all the member of the cycle together).
2016-01-04T06:01:27Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T06:10:41Z nyef: ogam: What if you want to enforce DAGness instead of merely grouping cycles?
2016-01-04T06:12:25Z ogam: Then call package-unuse to break the cycles.
2016-01-04T06:13:03Z ogam: When I say "grouping" I just mean that it would be nice to have members of the cycles in a common exclusive range in the result.
2016-01-04T06:13:42Z ogam: The "A" in DAG means Acyclic!
2016-01-04T06:13:47Z ogam: package-use doesn't define a DAG.
2016-01-04T06:13:56Z ogam: package-use-list I mean.
2016-01-04T06:14:13Z drmeister: It's ok, I don't think I need something so high powered.  These are CL package use declarations in C++ source code and any cycles are considered errors.
2016-01-04T06:15:36Z ogam: drmeister: my advice is to detect them at least. You can use: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304509#1
2016-01-04T06:18:58Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-04T06:20:50Z Jonsky joined #lisp
2016-01-04T06:26:44Z s1n4 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T06:35:02Z alvin- quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T06:37:22Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-04T06:41:15Z eazar001 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T06:42:19Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-04T06:43:04Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T06:43:36Z Quadrescence: is there a way to resolve the circularity between two structures referring to each other? e.g.  (defstruct a (x nil :type b)) (defstruct b (x nil :type a))
2016-01-04T06:44:28Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-04T06:44:29Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-04T06:45:47Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-04T06:46:00Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-04T06:52:09Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-04T06:52:51Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-04T06:53:49Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T06:54:38Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T06:56:25Z lieven: just drop the type declaration in the definition of a
2016-01-04T06:56:58Z Quadrescence: yes, of course that would work, but that is a very unsatisfying solution
2016-01-04T06:59:26Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T06:59:52Z lieven: seriously, people tend to overextimate what type declarations in CL will buy them
2016-01-04T07:00:00Z lieven: if you want Haskell, you know where to find it
2016-01-04T07:00:09Z lieven: *overestimate
2016-01-04T07:00:23Z Quadrescence: lieven, sometimes it provides runtime type safety, which buys a lot
2016-01-04T07:00:32Z Quadrescence: im not looking for mega-optimization from it
2016-01-04T07:00:49Z Quadrescence: especially in circular structures, it helps, and in this case it did, when I was interactively compiling
2016-01-04T07:01:00Z lieven: except that in a lot of places, a type declaration tells the compiler to believe you about the type and do less checks
2016-01-04T07:01:03Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:01:20Z Quadrescence: lieven, yes, so know your compiler and the effects of compiler policy, which I do
2016-01-04T07:01:41Z lieven: anyways, you could try redefining a later on
2016-01-04T07:04:25Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:05:41Z resttime: Quadrescence, Perhaps usage of DEFCLASS to create the definitions first and then using the meatobject protocol to add the slots with the types afterwards.
2016-01-04T07:06:20Z resttime: *metaobject
2016-01-04T07:07:07Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-04T07:07:52Z flip214: can somebody tell me the local part of @paulgraham.com, so that I can shoot an email about a recent blog post?
2016-01-04T07:08:01Z lieven: we're talking about structures. you can't create these with defclass
2016-01-04T07:09:07Z lieven: flip214: http://paulgraham.com/info.html
2016-01-04T07:09:15Z resttime: Oh, I was implying switching from using a structure to class as well
2016-01-04T07:09:28Z brill_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:10:09Z flip214: lieven: ah, thanks.
2016-01-04T07:10:19Z flip214: didn't look at that page.
2016-01-04T07:10:38Z lieven: it has the devious name of email. how were you to know?
2016-01-04T07:10:46Z loke: lieven: In response to your comment about overestimating the need for type declarations... People also tend to overestimate their need for performance in using structs instead of classes.
2016-01-04T07:10:58Z loke: Hint hint
2016-01-04T07:11:55Z lieven: loke: agreed. I tend not to use defstruct at first for that reason. When and if performace becomes a problem, turning classes into structs can become an optimisation.
2016-01-04T07:12:09Z flip214: lieven: but did you notice that this link is only visible at the root? when in an essay, there's no "email" link...
2016-01-04T07:12:30Z Guest67686 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:12:41Z loke: I have to admit that even in my red-black tree implementation, moving from classes to structs for the nodes gave a barely preceptible performance increase.
2016-01-04T07:12:57Z loke: And that's the type of structure where you'd expect to see some performance.
2016-01-04T07:13:23Z lieven: flip214: did you have some wisdom to share about his latest one about the causes of increasing fragmentation?
2016-01-04T07:13:40Z brill_ left #lisp
2016-01-04T07:14:19Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T07:16:49Z Guest67686 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T07:16:52Z flip214: lieven: sorry, no. no wisdom from me, just found a typo.
2016-01-04T07:19:02Z lieven: lol nothing wrong with that. I have a cheque from Knuth for not much more than that and a mistake in a reference.
2016-01-04T07:22:18Z loke: Ohh, a checque from Knuth!
2016-01-04T07:22:23Z loke: PIC/URL, please
2016-01-04T07:22:31Z loke: I have never seen one
2016-01-04T07:22:48Z loke: I have the books here, of course. And I could only wish to find an error in them.
2016-01-04T07:23:07Z lieven: sorry, I just moved last month and it's in one of the myriad boxes in my garage
2016-01-04T07:24:54Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:24:55Z loke: lieven: I'm shocked, SHOCKED!, that you don't have a picture of it ready to go for situations such as this one.
2016-01-04T07:25:00Z lieven: and the error was in 'Literate Programming', not in tAoCP
2016-01-04T07:25:21Z loke: That's no excuse...
2016-01-04T07:25:28Z lieven: he has stopped doling them out because of too many pictures. His bank got tired of defeating the identity theft attempts
2016-01-04T07:26:01Z loke: lieven: He could just send the 10 dollars (or however many it was) in cash :-)
2016-01-04T07:26:18Z lieven: well, nobody wants the cash
2016-01-04T07:26:48Z lieven: cashing it here in Europe would have cost me far more than its value
2016-01-04T07:27:40Z ogam: Quadrescence: there's no point in (defstruct a (x nil :type b)) (defstruct b (x nil :type a)). You cannot create either a a or a b, since you would need a b or an a first!
2016-01-04T07:28:53Z ogam: (defstruct a (x nil :type (or null b))) (defstruct b (x nil :type (or null a))) ; works in cc.
2016-01-04T07:28:55Z ogam: ccl
2016-01-04T07:29:28Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:33:32Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:36:39Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:37:48Z kazlock quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T07:38:04Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-04T07:38:57Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:40:03Z Jonsky quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.1)
2016-01-04T07:41:01Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2016-01-04T07:41:56Z kanru joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:44:06Z flip214: ogam: why not? until you create an instance, you wouldn't need the full definition - so just predeclare it.
2016-01-04T07:44:39Z iddqd joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:45:17Z eazar001 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T07:45:47Z White_Flame: flip214: because the :type specifier doesn't allow NIL in the slot
2016-01-04T07:47:17Z White_Flame: circularity generally involves mutating one of the ends to point to a newer item
2016-01-04T07:52:42Z ggole: You could do that directly with let rec, but CL lacks it.
2016-01-04T07:54:46Z flip214: White_Flame: and that's what I proposed - declaring type a (empty), declaring b, redeclaring type a.
2016-01-04T07:54:56Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:56:24Z White_Flame: it has little to do with declaring types; it has to do with being able to reference instantiated objects
2016-01-04T07:56:47Z White_Flame: and as structs instead of class instances, redeclaring is likely undefined behavior
2016-01-04T07:58:02Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T07:58:32Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:59:22Z _cosmona` joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:59:23Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T07:59:23Z Seteeri joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:00:05Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T08:00:10Z _cosmona` left #lisp
2016-01-04T08:00:14Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T08:00:50Z Seteeri: Has anybody used the pack package? - https://github.com/soemraws/pack
2016-01-04T08:01:28Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:03:06Z Seteeri: When I use unpack and pass a variable instead of a string - it slows down significantly
2016-01-04T08:03:22Z Seteeri: I can't figure out why...
2016-01-04T08:03:29Z adhoc joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:05:01Z _death: because it needs to interpret the string each time.. you can use compile-struct-string to compile it once (or every time it changes) and pass it to pack*
2016-01-04T08:05:25Z _death: or unpack* in your case
2016-01-04T08:06:19Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:06:28Z Seteeri: hmm
2016-01-04T08:07:15Z Seteeri: BTW, do you happen to be the original author of it?
2016-01-04T08:07:21Z _death: yes
2016-01-04T08:07:37Z Seteeri: nice, thanks for the package btw!
2016-01-04T08:07:50Z Seteeri: I'm coming from Python so it's really convenient
2016-01-04T08:07:57Z _death: np
2016-01-04T08:08:50Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-04T08:09:56Z flip214: _death: but it doesn't support the crc type, like perl does, right?
2016-01-04T08:10:37Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-04T08:11:43Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:11:59Z Seteeri: I'm still not exactly sure why I'm getting these results - http://pastebin.com/raw/NvZrbWvc
2016-01-04T08:12:47Z _death: flip214: nope
2016-01-04T08:12:54Z Seteeri: Other than the obvious that there's additional work being done...
2016-01-04T08:14:35Z Seteeri: I'm on Linux 64-bit SBCL 1.3.0
2016-01-04T08:15:11Z _death: suppose another solution is to add a small cache
2016-01-04T08:15:12Z NeverDie quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-04T08:15:58Z Seteeri: In my code, when I use a variable it takes almost a second a call, whereas when I use a string, it's almost instant
2016-01-04T08:17:04Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:17:54Z lieven: probably compiler macros that do a lot of the work at compile time
2016-01-04T08:18:15Z _death: Seteeri: when you pass a string literal it compiles it into closures at load-time..
2016-01-04T08:18:18Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:19:30Z Habens joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:20:29Z _death: Seteeri: you can use the memoize package: (org.tfeb.hax.memoize:memoize-function 'pack:compile-struct-string :test #'equal)
2016-01-04T08:22:02Z Seteeri: ah okay
2016-01-04T08:22:04Z jackdaniel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T08:22:04Z anunnaki quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T08:22:52Z Seteeri: yeah, if I use compile-struct-string beforehand, that speeds it up
2016-01-04T08:23:16Z Seteeri: for me, that's the simpler solution right now so
2016-01-04T08:24:14Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:24:56Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-04T08:25:43Z futpib_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:28:36Z m0li quit (Quit: I'm back!)
2016-01-04T08:29:07Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:29:45Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:30:05Z Seteeri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T08:33:02Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T08:33:50Z Heranort: does cl have any stable python ffi currently?
2016-01-04T08:36:55Z loke: Heranort: There is cl-python, which I believe is Python implemented in CL
2016-01-04T08:37:05Z loke: Heranort: What is it you want to do, exactly?
2016-01-04T08:37:26Z cadadar_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:38:47Z Heranort: use python's gui tools and cl's macro
2016-01-04T08:38:58Z loke: Heranort: What GUI tools are those?
2016-01-04T08:39:04Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:39:08Z Heranort: like tk
2016-01-04T08:39:11Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:39:18Z Heranort: it's simple in python
2016-01-04T08:39:19Z loke: There are TK bindings for CL
2016-01-04T08:39:31Z Heranort: i've tried that, it doesn't work fine.
2016-01-04T08:39:39Z loke: TK is not a Python thing. They were invented for TCL back in the very early 90's
2016-01-04T08:39:40Z Heranort: on retina screens...
2016-01-04T08:40:01Z loke: Heranort: OK, so did you try the GTK+ bindings? Or the Qt ones? I hear they are decent.
2016-01-04T08:40:13Z Heranort: gotcha. but i had a book introducing tk in python
2016-01-04T08:40:43Z Heranort: Qt works fine but it is complex.
2016-01-04T08:40:44Z loke: Heranort: Then use a different book. :-)  I think this is an excellent example of someone trying to make the nail fit the hammer.
2016-01-04T08:41:11Z loke: Heranort: I think it's probably worth the effort though.
2016-01-04T08:41:20Z Heranort: :D yeah. until i find other books teaching gui in lisp
2016-01-04T08:41:32Z Heranort: however i couldn't find that yet
2016-01-04T08:41:43Z _death: or you could try and fix the tk bindings
2016-01-04T08:41:54Z loke: Heranort: GUI development has never been a huge priority for CL. And these days, I'd say GUI development doesn't seem to be a high priority _anywhere_ (unless you're mobile)
2016-01-04T08:42:32Z Heranort: loke: so are you recommending the web programming like html??
2016-01-04T08:43:19Z Heranort: i know there's no ansi standard for gui and web programming
2016-01-04T08:45:30Z Habens quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T08:46:32Z Habens joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:46:50Z chelium joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:50:13Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:51:54Z resttime quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T08:53:44Z Heranort quit
2016-01-04T08:53:46Z ramky quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T08:54:16Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T08:55:10Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:55:26Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:55:52Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-04T08:56:08Z balle joined #lisp
2016-01-04T08:57:34Z Habens quit
2016-01-04T08:57:41Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-04T08:59:55Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T09:06:57Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:10:08Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T09:11:14Z russell-- quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T09:11:40Z flip214: hmmm, just got sbcl 1.3.1 installed (via apt-get), and now clsql won't connect to the database: "There is no applicable method for the generic function CLSQL-SYS:DATABASE-NAME-FROM-SPEC"
2016-01-04T09:11:47Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:12:49Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:13:27Z br0kenman joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:14:05Z flip214: argh, bad image file. sorry about the noise.
2016-01-04T09:14:22Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:16:35Z Guest67686 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:21:14Z N1330022410 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:22:37Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:24:22Z N1330022410 is now known as RCrB
2016-01-04T09:26:30Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:28:51Z RCrB quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-04T09:28:54Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:33:22Z pjb: minion: memo for Heranort: there's a very nice python<->CL bridge explained in ELS2014. "CLAUDE – The Common Lisp Library Audience Expansion Toolkit". http://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/editions/2014/ELS2014.pdf
2016-01-04T09:33:22Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell Heranort when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-04T09:34:07Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:35:59Z Guest67686 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T09:40:59Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:42:29Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:45:26Z flip214: does clsql-orm really need postgres, as written in http://quickdocs.org/clsql-orm/ ? is there a version for mysql, too?
2016-01-04T09:49:26Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T09:49:30Z PuercoPop: flip214: ? From the ASD I get the impression it works for sqlite and MySQL, not postgres
2016-01-04T09:49:43Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-04T09:52:54Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-04T09:53:40Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-04T09:54:11Z flip214: PuercoPop: yeah, https://github.com/AccelerationNet/clsql-orm says that too. thanks.
2016-01-04T10:00:08Z futpib_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T10:00:09Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:00:53Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:02:21Z jesusito joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:04:11Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T10:04:57Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-04T10:09:17Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:11:07Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T10:15:05Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:22:19Z jesusito quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-04T10:22:47Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:25:44Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T10:28:34Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:29:19Z kami joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:29:28Z kami: Good morning.
2016-01-04T10:42:25Z rjmacready joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:42:59Z m0li quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-04T10:43:03Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:43:07Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:46:26Z flip214: can I tell CLSQL to do "use names utf8" or something like that?
2016-01-04T10:47:13Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:48:24Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T10:48:27Z flip214: found it, thanks
2016-01-04T10:49:40Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:50:47Z DeadTrickster: looks like someone is learning clsql today :-)
2016-01-04T10:56:15Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:56:31Z je4i quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-04T10:57:04Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:59:07Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-04T10:59:43Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:00:48Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T11:02:30Z m0li quit (Quit: i'm back...)
2016-01-04T11:05:24Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:06:23Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T11:07:47Z wgslayer quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T11:09:46Z AeroNotix: kami: I can't find your fork of cl-zk. Did you fork on github or just locally?
2016-01-04T11:09:54Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T11:17:32Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:21:23Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T11:25:44Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:25:57Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T11:26:17Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-04T11:31:20Z papachan` joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:31:27Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:40:32Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:41:48Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:41:49Z m0li quit (Quit: (Lisper for ever \o/!!!))
2016-01-04T11:42:16Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:42:19Z baggykiin quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T11:42:43Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:42:49Z marcoecc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T11:43:11Z marcoecc joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:44:11Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:44:38Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-04T11:47:14Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T11:50:16Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:52:26Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T11:56:20Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T11:59:02Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:03:52Z kami: AeroNotix: forked on github: https://github.com/darabi/cl-zk
2016-01-04T12:04:09Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:06:05Z kami: AeroNotix: my fork shows up on https://github.com/AeroNotix/cl-zk/network
2016-01-04T12:06:41Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T12:09:26Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:14:35Z flip214: what's the easiest way to check whether a list matches (OR NULL x), and then return x?
2016-01-04T12:14:57Z flip214: what's the most basic pattern-matching in CL?
2016-01-04T12:16:42Z gublet joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:16:53Z White_Flame: x
2016-01-04T12:17:04Z djh_: what do you want to return if it doesn't match?
2016-01-04T12:17:10Z White_Flame: if X is nil, that'll return nil :-P
2016-01-04T12:17:32Z kdas_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:17:37Z White_Flame: oh, do you mean the literal list of 2 symbols and a variable, (OR NULL x)?
2016-01-04T12:17:44Z flip214: djh_: then another COND clause will get used
2016-01-04T12:17:48Z White_Flame: such that (OR NULL 3) will bind x to 3?
2016-01-04T12:17:49Z flip214: White_Flame: yes.
2016-01-04T12:17:54Z djh_: I was assuming 'x' was the list to be matched
2016-01-04T12:18:16Z White_Flame: yeah, that's a really weird sample
2016-01-04T12:18:21Z White_Flame: PAIP builds such a thing
2016-01-04T12:18:27Z flip214: I'm currently using (AND (EQ (FIRST list) 'or) ...), but that doesn't look nice
2016-01-04T12:18:45Z blub: that's the best vanilla cl has
2016-01-04T12:18:52Z blub: there are libraries to do pattern matching tho
2016-01-04T12:18:58Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:19:50Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:20:31Z papachan` quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T12:21:44Z tuxbrave_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:22:11Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:22:17Z kdas_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T12:22:38Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:24:08Z djh_: You could test for the first two in one go with (equal (cdr (reverse list)) '(null or)) I suppose :)
2016-01-04T12:24:51Z AeroNotix: kami: thx
2016-01-04T12:25:28Z kami: AeroNotix: fyi, I'm creating a docker container with zookeeper to use for Travis testing
2016-01-04T12:25:55Z AeroNotix: kami: ok. Doesn't travis have zk though? I recall I've put zookeeper on there before
2016-01-04T12:26:06Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:26:07Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:26:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:26:49Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:27:10Z kami: AeroNotix: I need the zookeeper docker container anyway. But thanks for the hint.
2016-01-04T12:33:46Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:34:37Z AeroNotix: ok
2016-01-04T12:37:08Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T12:38:37Z gublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T12:39:06Z grublet joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:40:19Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:42:03Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:45:35Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:46:46Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:48:41Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-04T12:53:29Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:53:30Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:54:17Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:54:34Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-04T12:54:50Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T12:57:12Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:02:15Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T13:04:32Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:07:36Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:09:23Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:10:35Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T13:11:54Z otwieracz: Is this somehow supported to install quicklisp system-wide?
2016-01-04T13:12:11Z Xach_: otwieracz: i've heard some have done it, but it is not part of the design
2016-01-04T13:13:08Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-04T13:13:32Z je4i quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T13:16:50Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:17:05Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:17:41Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-04T13:18:56Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:19:51Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T13:19:53Z phoe_krk: otwieracz: I think Debian does it by default, somehow, but I ignored it and installed it on my own anyway
2016-01-04T13:20:14Z phoe_krk: by default = it's in the repositories and available for installation
2016-01-04T13:21:00Z AeroNotix: otwieracz: I typically use a local quicklisp per project and a global one for quick hacking
2016-01-04T13:21:01Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:21:10Z AeroNotix: I treat it a bit like virtualenv for python
2016-01-04T13:21:20Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:21:30Z otwieracz: AeroNotix: quicklisp per project? How?
2016-01-04T13:21:42Z AeroNotix: otwieracz: you can tell quicklisp where to install with the quicklisp:install function
2016-01-04T13:21:50Z AeroNotix: I just use this to install it into a specific directory
2016-01-04T13:21:51Z Xach_: you can also simply make copies
2016-01-04T13:21:56Z dwchandler: AeroNotix: you mean "global" as in a user-wide, right? Or actually system-wide?
2016-01-04T13:22:08Z AeroNotix: dwchandler: global meaning for a user, sorry
2016-01-04T13:22:11Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T13:22:15Z dwchandler: kk
2016-01-04T13:22:19Z AeroNotix: I don't know if system-wide makes sense really
2016-01-04T13:22:32Z AeroNotix: if you're wanting to do it for applications, you should compile an image to run applications from
2016-01-04T13:22:47Z AeroNotix: running applications and loading libraries at start up isn't a nice UX.
2016-01-04T13:22:56Z AeroNotix: compile the application however => run it
2016-01-04T13:23:55Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:23:55Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-04T13:23:55Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:24:55Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T13:25:28Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:30:14Z flip214: what's the map function for a tree?
2016-01-04T13:30:43Z pjb: maptree.
2016-01-04T13:31:17Z pjb: com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.list:maptree of course.
2016-01-04T13:32:07Z Xach_: flip214: subst-if, tree-equal
2016-01-04T13:32:07Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:34:11Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:34:39Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:34:45Z flip214: pjb: Xach_: thanks
2016-01-04T13:40:01Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T13:40:59Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-04T13:41:45Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:42:30Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-04T13:42:44Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-04T13:44:28Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:46:13Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:48:12Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-04T13:48:51Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:53:39Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T13:53:44Z Xach_ quit (Changing host)
2016-01-04T13:53:44Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T13:53:48Z Xach_ is now known as Xach
2016-01-04T13:55:48Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-04T13:58:59Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:02:14Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:04:02Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T14:04:05Z anti-fre_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:06:42Z djh_ is now known as djh
2016-01-04T14:07:38Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T14:09:55Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T14:10:55Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T14:13:06Z pwnie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T14:14:35Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:15:17Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:17:11Z lisp989 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:19:05Z l04m33_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-04T14:20:11Z lurker joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:22:35Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:22:44Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T14:24:42Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:25:20Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:25:51Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-04T14:25:51Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:25:52Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:26:25Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:26:57Z papachan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T14:27:27Z vaitel joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:27:57Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:28:02Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:28:05Z clop: Is there a way to temporarily set (declaim (optimize ...)), load some code, and then set the optimize levels back to whatever they used to be?
2016-01-04T14:28:28Z lisp989: Hey guys, so my Lisp knowledge has gone a bit rusty
2016-01-04T14:28:41Z lisp989: I want to get back into it, and was solving the 99 problems
2016-01-04T14:28:59Z lisp989: I wanted to reverse a list, by doing it myself
2016-01-04T14:29:40Z lisp989: but seem not to be able to. I can get it reversed just fine, but not flatten it. So I end up with ((b (c (d (e) ) ) ) )
2016-01-04T14:29:44Z lisp989: or something like that
2016-01-04T14:30:00Z pjb: clop: definitely.
2016-01-04T14:30:29Z lisp989: should I provide the code?
2016-01-04T14:30:29Z pjb: clop: notice that optimization levels are not taken into account when loading fasl file, only when compiling them (and perhaps when loading the sources).
2016-01-04T14:30:46Z djh: lisp989: would probably help
2016-01-04T14:30:49Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:30:57Z pjb: lisp989: yes, use http://paste.lisp.org/new
2016-01-04T14:32:42Z lisp989: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304528
2016-01-04T14:32:45Z lisp989: here it is :)
2016-01-04T14:32:55Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:32:56Z djh: eek! Too many newlines!
2016-01-04T14:33:09Z zaquest: ouch
2016-01-04T14:33:51Z clop: pjb, thanks, i wonder if there's a finer grained way to do it?  but i can work with that
2016-01-04T14:34:15Z lisp989: sorry, usually it's not that bad, but I tried using more newlines, seems I went overkill, eh?
2016-01-04T14:34:15Z White_Flame: did you try (locally (declare ...) (load ...)) ?
2016-01-04T14:34:36Z White_Flame: not sure how compilation/loading handles local declarations
2016-01-04T14:35:04Z pjb: lisp989: first, when (null (cdr a)), then a = (x) or () then the reverse should be (x) or (), unchanged.  Why do you call (append a) in that case?
2016-01-04T14:35:44Z lisp989: ah sorry, I experimented with that, I should have pasted the version where it is just car A
2016-01-04T14:35:46Z pjb: lisp989: then, reverseWork returns a list.  to produce a proper list, cons takes an element, and a list (or ()).  So cons won't do there, in the T case.
2016-01-04T14:36:23Z lisp989: what will then?
2016-01-04T14:36:28Z pjb: lisp989: hint: you may use append in instead of cons (with some modification to the arguments); (it will be inefficient, but we can deal with that later.)
2016-01-04T14:37:25Z varjag:  my eyes
2016-01-04T14:37:35Z pjb: lisp989: always put a space before ( ,but not between two ((  Never put a space or a newline before or after a ).
2016-01-04T14:37:55Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T14:39:05Z White_Flame: lisp989: I annotated a reflowed version of what people are generally used to http://paste.lisp.org/display/304528#1
2016-01-04T14:39:20Z clop: White_Flame, thanks, I didn't even know about locally
2016-01-04T14:39:30Z White_Flame: (though I seem to have missed inserting a space after reverseWork.  also, rename to reverse-work)
2016-01-04T14:39:47Z rjmacready left #lisp
2016-01-04T14:40:09Z pjb: clop: it's not a good idea to hardwire optimization level in the code.  Never do that.
2016-01-04T14:40:24Z pjb: clop: optimization levels should be left for the FINAL user of the code.
2016-01-04T14:41:09Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T14:43:04Z whartung quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T14:48:39Z vydd joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:48:52Z jsgrant quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T14:49:10Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T14:51:44Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:52:21Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:52:48Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:52:54Z lurker: I find out I think lisp989
2016-01-04T14:54:12Z dreamaddict: I ended up using an accumulator for reverse
2016-01-04T14:54:15Z lurker: http://paste.lisp.org/+6IZ5
2016-01-04T14:54:27Z lisp989: Hey I solved it, just now :D
2016-01-04T14:54:31Z djh: I found an accumulator to be the best way to go
2016-01-04T14:54:38Z djh: Means you can stick to cons rather than append
2016-01-04T14:54:42Z lurker: I used append
2016-01-04T14:54:59Z gabot joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:55:17Z lisp989: it will almot ceirtanly make your eyes bleed, but at least it works :P
2016-01-04T14:55:39Z lisp989: certainly*
2016-01-04T14:55:44Z lurker: i don't know if it's even possible to solve this with cons
2016-01-04T14:55:57Z lurker: with a augmentation recursive function
2016-01-04T14:56:18Z pjb: lurker: now, your solution is O(n²).  How could you rewrite it so that it's O(n)?
2016-01-04T14:56:28Z dreamaddict: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304530
2016-01-04T14:56:58Z lurker: pjb: well...
2016-01-04T14:57:17Z pjb: dreamaddict: with labels, you can skip the &optional, and give always the two arguments (ie. call it with '() to start). So it could be compiled to faster code.
2016-01-04T14:57:31Z katco` is now known as katco
2016-01-04T14:57:55Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:58:09Z dreamaddict: ah…that is good to know
2016-01-04T14:58:23Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:58:30Z dreamaddict: did not know that &optional was a speed hit
2016-01-04T14:58:33Z clop: if you really want your eyes to bleed, check out rev3 here: https://github.com/acl2/acl2/blob/master/books/coi/defung/rev3.lisp
2016-01-04T14:58:34Z lurker: pjb: i don't know...
2016-01-04T14:58:35Z pjb: dreamaddict: notice that you can test for (endp element) instead of (cdr element) and this simplifies the else branch (just return accum), so you don't have duplicate subexpressions.
2016-01-04T14:58:55Z zaquest: why so many people suddenly reverse lists? ( -_-)
2016-01-04T14:59:01Z Heranor__ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T14:59:13Z dreamaddict: thank you again pjb…I saw that and it didn’t quite look right (the duplicate expressions)
2016-01-04T14:59:15Z White_Flame: zaquest: school is back in session after the holiday break?
2016-01-04T14:59:17Z lisp989: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304528#2
2016-01-04T14:59:22Z dreamaddict: also did not know about endp
2016-01-04T14:59:35Z lisp989: here is the solution that worked
2016-01-04T14:59:42Z White_Flame: Eternal September lives on
2016-01-04T14:59:58Z dreamaddict: aiii again with the single parentheses
2016-01-04T15:00:04Z dreamaddict: it looks wrong
2016-01-04T15:00:17Z pjb: lisp989: it will fail on (reverseWork '()); try it and debug it.
2016-01-04T15:01:02Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:01:10Z lurker: pjb: I really don't know how to make it O(n)... I'm such a nubs :(
2016-01-04T15:01:14Z lisp989: Well I didn't write it again from scratch but used the already badly formatted code and just rewrote what was needed for it to work
2016-01-04T15:01:22Z pjb: lurker: it depends on what tools you have (ie: can you use a loop with setf, or must you use recursion?)  dreamaddict has a solution using recursion, where we use an accumulator containing the partial result.
2016-01-04T15:01:28Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:01:44Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:01:51Z dreamaddict: also, I made an effort to eschew iteration for the List portion of 99 problems
2016-01-04T15:01:59Z djh went with http://paste.lisp.org/display/304531
2016-01-04T15:02:08Z pjb: lurker: if you can use setf, then you just keep this partial result in a variable, and loop over the input cells, consing (pushing) a new cell onto the partial result.
2016-01-04T15:02:12Z lurker: pjb: I still need to learn more about the language, I only know recursion, I'm gonna learn about loop soon
2016-01-04T15:02:15Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:02:15Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:02:16Z dreamaddict: so that I could practice writing the recursive way because I really needed it…so I didn’t necessarily write the fastest one
2016-01-04T15:02:36Z lurker: Ok i'll try
2016-01-04T15:02:36Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:03:04Z dreamaddict: also push might be faster than using the cons…?
2016-01-04T15:03:05Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:03:48Z pjb: dreamaddict: (push element var) basically expands to (setf var (cons element var)), so it's the same.
2016-01-04T15:03:56Z dreamaddict: ok
2016-01-04T15:04:07Z pjb: (but push takes care of evaluating the side effects of var only once).
2016-01-04T15:04:38Z pjb: White_Flame: it's a good thing! We've pushed for years to have more people ;-)
2016-01-04T15:04:42Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:05:11Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-04T15:05:12Z dreamaddict: push is faster than append though, correct?  I was under the impression that append is wasteful in tight loops and I should try not to use it if possible
2016-01-04T15:05:55Z Heranor__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:05:56Z White_Flame: append has to traverse the full list, push just makes a new head
2016-01-04T15:06:10Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:06:17Z lurker: Another try: http://paste.lisp.org/+6IZ8
2016-01-04T15:06:21Z White_Flame: (well, appending a tail can do tail sharing, but still)
2016-01-04T15:06:35Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:06:57Z lurker: pjb: Is it what you mean by "tmp variable" which i need to push?
2016-01-04T15:11:30Z spuz joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:12:04Z spuz left #lisp
2016-01-04T15:12:45Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-04T15:12:55Z cpc26_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:14:26Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T15:19:05Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:20:52Z je4i quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-04T15:25:37Z vydd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T15:28:07Z ghard joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:29:15Z ghard: Howdy! Has anybody been looking into hacking an ODBC backend for CL-DBI?
2016-01-04T15:30:11Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:31:25Z pjb: lurker: imagine you want to reverse a chain. You can hold the head of the chain in one hand, and the head of the reversed chain so far, in the other hand. You take the first element of the chain, and push it on the reversed chain so far. And repeat until no element is left from the input chain. Then you will have the whole reversed chain in the other hand.
2016-01-04T15:31:34Z pjb: This other hand is you temp variable. ;-)
2016-01-04T15:31:54Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:32:32Z Guest67686 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:32:54Z pjb: lurker: this is a good accumulator version.  Often we prefer to replace the &optional with a local function using labels, but sometimes it's useful to have it on the API. A typical example is revappend (or nreconc).
2016-01-04T15:33:31Z pjb: (defun rev (list) (revappend list '())) (rev '(1 2 3)) --> (3 2 1)  ; cheater ;-)
2016-01-04T15:35:57Z pjb: dreamaddict: yes, push = cons = allocates only one cons cell.  append will have to copy all the lists (but the last one), so it will allocate O(n) cons cells (therefore using a proportional O(n) time).
2016-01-04T15:36:59Z pjb: dreamaddict: now of course, if you always append a list of length 1, you only copy 1 cons cell, so it stays O(1), only at a cost double. (cons x y) == (append (list x) y)
2016-01-04T15:37:12Z Guest67686 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:40:26Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:41:36Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:41:44Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:44:30Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:45:03Z lurker: pjb: The funny thing is that I started to do what you just said, doing local function, and I was thinking I was doing absolutely just dumb shit.. I'm glad to see that I was not totaly retarded... :D
2016-01-04T15:45:35Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:47:14Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:47:53Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:48:08Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:50:00Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:50:02Z mrSpec: Hi guys! I'm just using xpath for the first time, Could someone explain me why I see "Hello world" twice at - http://paste.lisp.org/display/304536 instead of "hello world" and "bar"?
2016-01-04T15:50:16Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:51:36Z psy_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-04T15:51:41Z lurker: pjb: however thanks for the help and the explanation. It's very helpful
2016-01-04T15:54:53Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:55:30Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-04T15:55:46Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:57:07Z pjb: lurker: You may check my solutions: http://informatimago.com/develop/lisp/l99/index.html
2016-01-04T15:57:26Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-04T15:57:35Z pwnie quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-04T15:59:53Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:03:45Z tobetchi joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:03:49Z tobetchi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T16:04:11Z lurker: pjb: thanks! I didn't even knew the challenge
2016-01-04T16:04:57Z pjb: lurker: check: http://cliki.net/exercices then.
2016-01-04T16:05:07Z lurker: pjb: ok
2016-01-04T16:06:42Z lurker: pjb: Oh ok, you have to not use some precompiled function like nth or nthcdr
2016-01-04T16:07:15Z lurker: Just the basic primitive one
2016-01-04T16:11:46Z s1n4 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T16:14:50Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:15:55Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T16:15:56Z sepi` joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:16:17Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T16:16:31Z warweasle: Does anyone use callbacks in ECL? Do you have to do anything special? my cl-ode library won't compile either of my two callback functions.
2016-01-04T16:16:50Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:17:08Z sepi quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T16:17:53Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:18:04Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-04T16:18:43Z jackdaniel: warweasle: please consult src/tests/regressions/tests/foreign-interface.lsp file, there are callback examples
2016-01-04T16:18:59Z warweasle: jackdaniel: Thanks.
2016-01-04T16:19:35Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T16:19:42Z jackdaniel: but it's better to use cffi interface
2016-01-04T16:19:50Z jackdaniel: it should work and is portable
2016-01-04T16:20:03Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:20:37Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:20:38Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:20:54Z beach: Good afternoon everyone!
2016-01-04T16:21:01Z jackdaniel: hello beach o/
2016-01-04T16:21:12Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-04T16:21:16Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T16:21:27Z warweasle: jackdaniel: So cffi doesn't support ecl callbacks?
2016-01-04T16:21:33Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:21:55Z jackdaniel: I believe it does
2016-01-04T16:22:02Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:22:04Z jackdaniel: that's why I suggested you should use it
2016-01-04T16:22:09Z jackdaniel: it doesn't work for you?
2016-01-04T16:22:33Z warweasle: jackdaniel: I'm getting a compile error. I can't get any more informatin than that.
2016-01-04T16:22:46Z jackdaniel: hrm, could you share a minimal snippet?
2016-01-04T16:23:18Z warweasle: (cffi:defcallback moved-callback :void ((body :pointer)) )
2016-01-04T16:23:24Z beach: lurker: [I am reading the logs] I suggest you work on your latest version so that it looks more conventional.
2016-01-04T16:23:50Z beach: lurker: Underscore is not used in Common Lisp symbols and your indentation is wrong.
2016-01-04T16:24:16Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:24:24Z jackdaniel: warweasle: I have only a style warning on that
2016-01-04T16:24:51Z jackdaniel: warweasle: and it works – (callback moved-callback)
2016-01-04T16:24:52Z jackdaniel: #<foreign :POINTER-VOID>
2016-01-04T16:25:00Z beach: lisp989: The same goes for you.  Indent your code properly, and follow the spacing conventions that pjb told you about.
2016-01-04T16:25:01Z warweasle: jackdaniel: Odd...
2016-01-04T16:25:21Z jackdaniel: what version are you using?
2016-01-04T16:25:35Z sepi` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T16:25:58Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:28:58Z warweasle: jackdaniel: I'm trying to remember the version variable...
2016-01-04T16:29:08Z jackdaniel: (lisp-implementation-version)
2016-01-04T16:29:10Z jackdaniel: ↑ funciton
2016-01-04T16:29:16Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T16:29:17Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-04T16:29:28Z warweasle: jackdaniel: 16.1.0
2016-01-04T16:29:28Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T16:29:55Z jackdaniel: could you run it from the cli (instead of slime, which hides some stuff) and paste the error output?
2016-01-04T16:29:56Z zeroish quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T16:30:11Z warweasle: I'm updating quicklisp. Let's see if that does anything.
2016-01-04T16:30:30Z jackdaniel: btw, 16.1.0 ain't released yet :p
2016-01-04T16:30:55Z loke` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T16:31:37Z warweasle: jackdaniel: Oh, that could be my problem.
2016-01-04T16:32:40Z br0kenman quit (Quit: q)
2016-01-04T16:32:56Z jackdaniel: :)
2016-01-04T16:34:33Z lisp989: Well thank you guys, you have been very helpful today :)
2016-01-04T16:35:42Z lisp989: I hope in the following days I regain back most of my Lisp knowledge and fix my formatting issues ^^
2016-01-04T16:36:04Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T16:36:24Z gabot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T16:37:02Z lisp989 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-04T16:37:37Z warweasle: jackdaniel: http://paste.lisp.org/+6IZH
2016-01-04T16:38:06Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T16:38:12Z gabot joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:39:33Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:39:38Z warweasle: jackdaniel: Also gcc (Debian 5.2.1-23) 5.2.1 20151028
2016-01-04T16:41:19Z lurker: beach: thx for the comment!
2016-01-04T16:41:53Z lurker: beach: I always use undercore.. Gonna be difficult to change this habbit
2016-01-04T16:41:58Z jackdaniel: warweasle: and you have a recent cffi?
2016-01-04T16:42:10Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T16:43:31Z pwnie: im getting these errors that cause my .lisp file not to compile: http://sprunge.us/MRDW - Why? I use setf to set variables to values, but is this not the right way to do it?
2016-01-04T16:44:43Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-04T16:44:47Z lieven: SETQ at toplevel isn't required to create bindings when they don't already exist
2016-01-04T16:45:18Z warweasle: jackdaniel: I just got the newest
2016-01-04T16:45:26Z pwnie: setq? im not using setq?
2016-01-04T16:45:34Z jackdaniel: warweasle: also if you could paste /home/warweasle/.cache/common-lisp/ecl-16.1.0-6e3b64e4-linux-x64/home/warweasle/quicklisp/local-projects/cl-ode/ode.c somewhere (and ode.lisp preferably), then I could try to investigate it
2016-01-04T16:45:41Z lieven: pwnie: note that it's just a warning
2016-01-04T16:46:20Z cyraxjoe_ is now known as cyraxjoe
2016-01-04T16:46:23Z pwnie: but why does it always say undefined variable?
2016-01-04T16:46:23Z blub: pwnie: setf expands into setq
2016-01-04T16:46:34Z pwnie: im giving the variable a value, is that not the same as defining?
2016-01-04T16:46:44Z blub: what is the original code
2016-01-04T16:47:08Z Zhivago: Assignment is not establishment.
2016-01-04T16:47:19Z White_Flame: (defvar *things* '((object1 ...)))
2016-01-04T16:47:25Z pwnie: blub: http://sprunge.us/TRfa
2016-01-04T16:47:34Z blub: oh
2016-01-04T16:47:38Z White_Flame: most lisps will be generous and create a variable for you if you set to one that doesn't exist
2016-01-04T16:47:46Z White_Flame: but usually not without warning
2016-01-04T16:48:03Z warweasle: jackdaniel: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304541#1
2016-01-04T16:48:24Z sz0 quit (Quit: My computer has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-04T16:48:42Z warweasle: jackdaniel: Most likely I'm doing something dumb, but it does work on sbcl.
2016-01-04T16:49:13Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:49:35Z pwnie: White_Flame: Why things wrapped with *'s?
2016-01-04T16:49:59Z White_Flame: pwnie: it's purely a convention, to ensure that you don't accidentally bind that variable locally somewhere, too
2016-01-04T16:50:12Z warweasle: pwnie: We call them "earmuffs"
2016-01-04T16:50:17Z warweasle: pwnie: :)
2016-01-04T16:50:21Z pwnie: heh
2016-01-04T16:50:58Z White_Flame: if some function did (let ((things '(1 2 3)) ...) and 'things' was declared as a special variable, then THINGS would be shadowed to the value (1 2 3) for any external code that's called within that body, which is very likely not what's intended
2016-01-04T16:51:45Z White_Flame: the earmuff convention just makes it very apparent that a special variable is being bound
2016-01-04T16:52:49Z jackdaniel: warweasle: implementations have different implementation in cffi. I think it's problem with cffi, but I can't reproduce your problem, hence can't verify this suspicion
2016-01-04T16:53:13Z warweasle: jackdaniel: Let me see if I can replicate it at home. If not, then it's not an issue for me.
2016-01-04T16:53:13Z pwnie: thanks White_Flame
2016-01-04T16:53:45Z jackdaniel: warweasle: if you'll come up with a reproductible case, please post it on the gitlab, I'll take a look at it then
2016-01-04T16:54:10Z warweasle: jackdaniel: Thanks. It's good to see someone keeping ECL alive.
2016-01-04T16:54:38Z jackdaniel: alive and (hopefully) kicking ;]
2016-01-04T16:54:49Z pwnie: I'm still a bit confused though, is it better to use setf or defvar when assigning values to variables?
2016-01-04T16:54:58Z pwnie: In what case would I use setf vs defvar?
2016-01-04T16:55:03Z warweasle: jackdaniel: If I have anything to do about it, it will be *very* popular.
2016-01-04T16:55:05Z ck_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:55:07Z pwnie: And would I ever use setq directly?
2016-01-04T16:55:11Z White_Flame: defvar defines a variable.  setf sets some place
2016-01-04T16:55:34Z White_Flame: setf sets some value into a place, which could be a variable, could be a member of an array/struct/object, etc
2016-01-04T16:56:09Z White_Flame: I think setq is mostly a legacy thing
2016-01-04T16:56:21Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:56:35Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:56:56Z mtl: pwnie: defvar is only for defining variables
2016-01-04T16:57:07Z pwnie: hmmm, looks like my book doesn't cover assignment until pg 300, maybe theres a reason why they havent gone over this yet
2016-01-04T16:57:09Z mtl: in fact, if the variable already exists, it won't assign the value
2016-01-04T16:57:28Z mtl: you would use setf to change the value of an existing variable
2016-01-04T16:58:53Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T16:59:29Z jackdaniel: warweasle: could you tell what is a value of cffi::*cffi-ecl-method* ?
2016-01-04T17:00:01Z cadadar_ left #lisp
2016-01-04T17:00:45Z jackdaniel: and if 'ecl-with-backend is present in *features*?
2016-01-04T17:01:14Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T17:01:21Z warweasle: jackdaniel: :DFFI
2016-01-04T17:01:31Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:01:56Z warweasle: jackdaniel: :ECL-WITH-BACKEND
2016-01-04T17:02:04Z jackdaniel: then inlining should take place in a first place with a recent cffi. OK, so as I said, if you come up with a reproductible case, please share.
2016-01-04T17:02:10Z jackdaniel: shouldn't °
2016-01-04T17:02:16Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T17:02:23Z warweasle: jackdaniel: OH, I was using it with the C++ build.
2016-01-04T17:02:53Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:03:00Z warweasle: jackdaniel: I try it at home. Right now I'm on a headless server.
2016-01-04T17:03:15Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T17:03:38Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:03:42Z munge quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.3))
2016-01-04T17:04:26Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T17:04:35Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T17:07:35Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T17:07:40Z ramky quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T17:10:15Z yuankode quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.50.1))
2016-01-04T17:10:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:11:25Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:15:58Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:18:37Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-04T17:19:41Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T17:22:03Z jesusito joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:22:25Z dreamaddict quit (Quit: dreamaddict)
2016-01-04T17:24:37Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-04T17:27:56Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:30:41Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:31:31Z je4i quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-04T17:34:42Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:35:02Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:35:20Z sparta9aa joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:35:32Z sparta9aa: my gods the java world is such a scam
2016-01-04T17:35:37Z sparta9aa: switch everything to lisp
2016-01-04T17:35:56Z joga snaps fingers and *whoosh*, it is done.
2016-01-04T17:36:22Z whartung joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:36:51Z White_Flame: "I had a problem, so I thought to use Java."
2016-01-04T17:36:54Z White_Flame: "Now I have a ProblemFactory."
2016-01-04T17:36:59Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-04T17:37:45Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:39:29Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:40:56Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-04T17:42:07Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:42:39Z nyef: White_Flame: Or a ProblemFactoryGeneratorBean ?
2016-01-04T17:42:50Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:44:03Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:44:18Z Guest67686 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:44:52Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T17:45:10Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T17:45:34Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:46:17Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-04T17:46:53Z attila_lendvai: luis: shall I also delete this: (y-or-n-p "Are you sure you want to quit the inferior lisp process?")?
2016-01-04T17:48:06Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-04T17:48:58Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:49:52Z anti-fre_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T17:51:09Z Kruppe joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:52:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-04T17:55:15Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T17:56:25Z attila_lendvai has deleted it, leaving it in comments with some commentary
2016-01-04T17:58:33Z lurker: If you put one million monkeys in front of keyboards, one or two should code in Perl; all the other one code in java
2016-01-04T17:58:44Z Lord_of_- quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-04T18:00:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:01:56Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:06:27Z je4i quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-04T18:08:16Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-04T18:08:36Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-04T18:10:51Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-04T18:12:20Z sparta9aa: lol
2016-01-04T18:17:32Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T18:18:21Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:26:28Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:30:56Z luis: attila_lendvai: okidokie, I'll think about it.
2016-01-04T18:31:53Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:32:03Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: any progress with CFFI?
2016-01-04T18:32:07Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:32:46Z Nikotiini quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T18:33:14Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-04T18:33:19Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: I'm stuck with the asdf part always redoing the generation...
2016-01-04T18:33:19Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:34:02Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: besides the c2ffi stuff I didn't delve into the macroexpansion code because it needs someone who has a comprehensive understanding of it, who should begin with either a cleanup of the names, or writing a few lines about each of those protocol methods that are overridden for various types
2016-01-04T18:34:31Z attila_lendvai: and that was too much for my current hacking energies in this direction
2016-01-04T18:35:06Z LiamH: But, the problem of requiring a translator for a foreign structure is solved?
2016-01-04T18:35:32Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-04T18:37:29Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-04T18:37:34Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:37:35Z futpib_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:42:34Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: well, solved in the sense that I can continue working, but it's still a hack that effectively disables foreign->lisp translation, so it's not a long-term solution
2016-01-04T18:43:20Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T18:43:24Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: I also have serious issues with my perfectionism, and if I start working on this it'll draw me into designing a better cffi api, but that is again a bigger bite than I should take at this point
2016-01-04T18:43:43Z attila_lendvai: forgot the smily... :)
2016-01-04T18:44:22Z LiamH: Well luis was going to rethink the mapping between types anyway, I think.
2016-01-04T18:45:20Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-04T18:46:40Z pjb: lurker: you need a billion monkeys: cf. http://www.gigamonkeys.com
2016-01-04T18:50:33Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:53:55Z UtkarshRay quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T18:54:26Z vlatkoB quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T18:57:33Z warweasle is now known as warweasle_meetin
2016-01-04T18:59:20Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:59:35Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T18:59:38Z pbgc quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
2016-01-04T19:00:42Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:00:55Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:01:22Z earl-ducaine quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T19:04:24Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T19:07:25Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:09:27Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-04T19:09:32Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:09:32Z lurker: pjb: haha :D
2016-01-04T19:13:52Z sparta9aa: just simple searches and web gui are hard
2016-01-04T19:13:59Z sparta9aa: let alone redesigning cffi
2016-01-04T19:20:01Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T19:20:55Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T19:21:24Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:22:07Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:22:50Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:24:36Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T19:26:12Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T19:36:11Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:41:14Z dim: a billion unpaid monkeys, apparently (IIUC the current pg;dr thing)
2016-01-04T19:42:59Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T19:46:54Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T19:47:21Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:48:19Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:48:32Z sparta9aa: do you as a lisp programmer look at other shops and see 100s of hours wasted on things you could easily do better?
2016-01-04T19:48:33Z katco: if i have (defgeneric foo (bar)), will a CLOS foo accessor not meet that signature?
2016-01-04T19:49:10Z AJavaIdiot: Hi guys, noob question: Why does (with-open-file (stream etc etc) :etc :etc)) not try to evaluate stream as a function, and is more than happy to just use it as a variable?
2016-01-04T19:49:27Z AJavaIdiot: I've got an extra parens in there, but I think it's cleary what I meant
2016-01-04T19:49:36Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-04T19:49:44Z dlowe: AJavaIdiot: stream *is* the variable
2016-01-04T19:50:10Z dlowe: AJavaIdiot: it binds stream to the result of OPEN-FILE, which is passed the rest of that form
2016-01-04T19:50:20Z dlowe: and then closes it when control exits that form
2016-01-04T19:50:22Z Bicyclidine: because with-open-file is a macro that determines its syntax.
2016-01-04T19:50:42Z Bicyclidine: basically the same reason (lambda (foo bar) ...) doesn't try to evalute (foo bar).
2016-01-04T19:50:47Z AJavaIdiot: My question was more in terms of the syntax dlowe: Normally a list's first element is a function, the rest are arguments
2016-01-04T19:51:04Z dlowe: AJavaIdiot: yeah, the syntax is mutable with macros and special forms
2016-01-04T19:51:06Z AJavaIdiot: Ok, that explains it. Thanks to both of you :)
2016-01-04T19:51:37Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-04T19:53:29Z ggole quit
2016-01-04T19:54:15Z chelium quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T19:55:46Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T19:55:59Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-04T20:01:34Z warweasle_meetin is now known as warweasle
2016-01-04T20:02:50Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:04:29Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T20:06:42Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:07:53Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:08:39Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:09:44Z chelium joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:14:10Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T20:15:04Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:16:50Z Guest67686 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T20:17:49Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2016-01-04T20:19:20Z sparta9aa: is lisp better than haskell erlang prolog smalltalk java go ocaml?
2016-01-04T20:19:26Z jackdaniel: no
2016-01-04T20:19:28Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:19:29Z jackdaniel: it's just different
2016-01-04T20:21:08Z dlowe: I'm willing to take a stand and say that it's better than PHP.
2016-01-04T20:21:27Z AJavaIdiot: there's a lot of hubhub about php6
2016-01-04T20:21:30Z mordocai: I'm also willing to say it is better than java the language (though not necessarily the jvm ecosystem)
2016-01-04T20:21:50Z mordocai: I also don't like go but that's entirely personal preference
2016-01-04T20:22:45Z vap1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T20:22:48Z AJavaIdiot: so far the greatest thing about common lisp vs other languages I've tried has been how nicely things (usually) come together
2016-01-04T20:23:00Z mordocai: So cl-who is pretty good at lispy syntax -> html. Does anyone know if someone has made a script to turn html to cl-who syntax? Cause I need one.
2016-01-04T20:23:28Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T20:23:46Z dlowe: yeah, there are very few pathological corner cases with CL, despite the large number of features
2016-01-04T20:24:16Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:24:55Z iddqd is now known as eazar001
2016-01-04T20:25:08Z AJavaIdiot: also, the polish notation
2016-01-04T20:25:22Z dlowe: there's infix macros you can use if you want
2016-01-04T20:25:22Z Bicyclidine: mordocai: there are several html parsers, sure. cxml sort of thing
2016-01-04T20:25:33Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:25:44Z dlowe: nearly nobody uses them after a while.
2016-01-04T20:26:34Z mordocai: Bicyclidine: So what i'm wanting to build (since it doesn't seem to exist) is an emacs mode that edits in s expressions but saves as html. So I need to be able to sexpr <-> html without any loss. That way I can write my html in sexpressions but what my team sees is html.
2016-01-04T20:26:46Z dim: in case there's interest for that around here, I just setup a Dockerfile for pgloader (CL) and an automated build on docker hub for it: https://hub.docker.com/r/dimitri/pgloader/
2016-01-04T20:26:53Z mordocai: Using tmp files as an intermediary is fine for my case
2016-01-04T20:27:11Z dim: the first build has yet to happen before you can get the image, and IIUC a new image will be built for each pull in the master's branch
2016-01-04T20:27:42Z dim: you can then run `docker run --rm --name pgloader pgloader:debian pgloader --version` and have the SBCL image kick in
2016-01-04T20:28:07Z les quit (Quit: "")
2016-01-04T20:29:27Z mood: mordocai: I thought I had seen a library to convert html->cl-who once, but I can't find it so I might be imagining things. It seems fairly easy to implement (famous last words) using an HTML parser and a bit of tree walking
2016-01-04T20:29:58Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:30:05Z mordocai: mood: Yeah, I was just hoping it was already done.
2016-01-04T20:30:45Z mordocai: mood: With that piece a simple on save/on load file hook should do the rest in emacs.
2016-01-04T20:30:59Z chelium quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T20:31:00Z mordocai: Just "shell out" to common lisp for translation
2016-01-04T20:32:09Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T20:32:36Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:33:05Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:35:11Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:39:19Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-04T20:42:42Z tristero joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:46:26Z chelium joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:46:54Z k4rtik quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T20:47:00Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T20:47:08Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:47:08Z k4rtik quit (Changing host)
2016-01-04T20:47:08Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:49:37Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:51:32Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-04T20:52:20Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:52:30Z katco: what's the difference between the with clause and the initially clause in the CL loop macro?
2016-01-04T20:53:28Z isoraqathedh: `initially` introduces a bunch of arbitrary code that runs before the loop actually starts.
2016-01-04T20:53:31Z oGMo: with declares lexical variables, and intially is just a form?
2016-01-04T20:53:49Z oGMo: ah, yes
2016-01-04T20:53:51Z isoraqathedh: `with … = …` introduces some variables that may be used during the loop, and is mroe specific
2016-01-04T20:54:09Z katco: but with is only run 1x before the loop starts, correct?
2016-01-04T20:54:10Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:54:16Z mood: Yes
2016-01-04T20:54:48Z katco: ah ok. so i would use 'initially' if i wanted something more complicated than vars?
2016-01-04T20:55:08Z mood: 'initially' is for when you don't care about the values produced by those forms, basically
2016-01-04T20:55:33Z katco: ok
2016-01-04T20:55:36Z katco: ty everyone :)
2016-01-04T20:55:59Z fsmunoz joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:56:08Z emacsomancer quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T20:56:23Z pwnie quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-04T20:57:26Z isoraqathedh: How do you make a pathname that has a wildcard in it?
2016-01-04T20:58:50Z isoraqathedh: Like, say, what :name argument would you have to pass into `make-pathname` to make it spit out a pathname that corresponds to "foo*", i.e. the string "foo" and a wildcard/
2016-01-04T20:59:35Z chelium quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T20:59:54Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-04T20:59:59Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:00:24Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:02:33Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-04T21:03:23Z axion: :wild
2016-01-04T21:04:39Z axion: you can always do (describe (pathname "/some/dir/*"))
2016-01-04T21:04:59Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-04T21:05:15Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T21:05:30Z isoraqathedh: Eh, not really. It's more like I need to get all files in a dir that match a common prefix.
2016-01-04T21:05:42Z isoraqathedh: So "foo*".
2016-01-04T21:05:55Z isoraqathedh: :wild only permits "*".
2016-01-04T21:07:12Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:08:38Z Yanez quit (Quit: Yanez)
2016-01-04T21:08:42Z Xach: isoraqathedh: unportably, you can use "foo*" and see what happens.
2016-01-04T21:09:01Z Xach: isoraqathedh: portably, you would have to do some manual testing of the prefix yourself.
2016-01-04T21:09:02Z isoraqathedh: SBCL escapes the *, cleverly enoguh.
2016-01-04T21:09:09Z Xach: It doesn't.
2016-01-04T21:09:19Z isoraqathedh: So :name "foo*" becomes "foo^*"
2016-01-04T21:09:57Z isoraqathedh: https://gyazo.com/c16bdb1e3854f06db1c8ae6a3f6bedc1
2016-01-04T21:10:12Z Xach: Ok, I see. Sorry.
2016-01-04T21:10:23Z Xach: You may have better luck with "/foo/bar/foo*" instead.
2016-01-04T21:11:45Z warweasle quit (Quit: Home time)
2016-01-04T21:15:11Z chelium joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:15:17Z axion: in sbcl, :name "foo*" => #<SB-IMPL::PATTERN "foo" :MULTI-CHAR-WILD>
2016-01-04T21:15:29Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:15:54Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:16:03Z isoraqathedh: Is it system dependent how it does it?
2016-01-04T21:16:14Z axion: implementation dependent
2016-01-04T21:16:39Z jasom: isoraqathedh: there are several libraries to allow you to do more file and directory related things portably
2016-01-04T21:16:41Z axion: best to use a portable pathname library, like uiop or cl-fad perhaps
2016-01-04T21:16:44Z isoraqathedh: See, Windows SBCL 1.3.1.
2016-01-04T21:16:52Z jasom: uiop has a little bit, and cl-fad is specifically for this
2016-01-04T21:16:53Z isoraqathedh: Ah, right, I forgot about those libraries.
2016-01-04T21:16:59Z mood: axion: Do you just (make-pathname :name "foo*") for that? My SBCL escapes the *
2016-01-04T21:17:23Z axion: mood: wrap that in a DESCRIBE
2016-01-04T21:18:52Z mood: axion: It's still just a pathname with a Name of "foo*". #P"foo*" gives me a pattern though
2016-01-04T21:19:02Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T21:19:39Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:19:59Z axion: oh yes
2016-01-04T21:20:04Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:24:30Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T21:24:47Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-04T21:25:29Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:28:48Z _sjs quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-04T21:29:04Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T21:29:42Z chelium quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-04T21:30:32Z yenda joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:32:26Z tos-1 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-04T21:34:11Z BitPuffin quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T21:34:17Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:35:29Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:35:35Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:37:15Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T21:40:24Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-04T21:45:02Z chelium joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:46:36Z nzambe quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-04T21:47:14Z Denommus` joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:48:26Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T21:50:35Z Guest67686 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:52:22Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:53:46Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:54:47Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:55:11Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:55:41Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T21:55:50Z urandom__ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:56:28Z Yanez: could someone please show me an example of how to use POSIX:WITH-STREAM-LOCK in CLISP?
2016-01-04T21:56:55Z chelium quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T21:58:15Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-04T21:59:13Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T22:01:24Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:02:19Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-04T22:05:03Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:05:11Z sparta9aa: I dunno
2016-01-04T22:05:19Z sparta9aa: what are you trying to do?
2016-01-04T22:05:26Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-04T22:05:55Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:05:56Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T22:06:18Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:08:07Z mood: Yanez: You just (with-stream-lock (the-stream-to-lock) (do-something) (with-the-stream)), what is it you don't understand?
2016-01-04T22:09:41Z Yanez: mood: I get *** - UNIX error 9 (EBADF): Bad file number
2016-01-04T22:10:03Z Yanez: mood: I did (with-open-file (in "filename") (posix:with-stream-lock (in) (read-line in)))
2016-01-04T22:11:41Z Yanez: mood: I think I need to put the stream's fd as argument to with-stream-lock, instead of in, but I don't know how to get that from the stream
2016-01-04T22:11:47Z russell-- joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:12:08Z chelium joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:12:11Z russell-- is now known as Guest35087
2016-01-04T22:12:27Z mood: The documentation says you should pass the stream
2016-01-04T22:12:59Z mood: I have no idea what the problem is
2016-01-04T22:14:02Z mood: I do get the same error
2016-01-04T22:15:05Z micro___ is now known as micro_
2016-01-04T22:15:09Z HardWall quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-04T22:15:25Z mood: Yanez: I think the problem is that the file is an input stream, and with-stream-lock by default tries to get an exclusive lock, for writing
2016-01-04T22:15:36Z mood: Adding :shared t makes the call succeed
2016-01-04T22:15:52Z mood: So (posix:with-stream-lock (in :shared t) ...)
2016-01-04T22:16:08Z Yanez: mood: uhm... I actually need it for writing, so let me try opening it for output...
2016-01-04T22:16:28Z futpib_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:17:03Z Yanez: mood: yeah, it worked... thanks!
2016-01-04T22:17:34Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:17:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:17:54Z mood: Yanez: np. "We all learned something"
2016-01-04T22:18:57Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:19:21Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:20:08Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:20:16Z chelium quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:21:20Z reb`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T22:22:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:26:56Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:28:15Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:29:44Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:31:46Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:33:52Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T22:35:59Z chelium joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:36:15Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:36:36Z clarkema joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:36:48Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:36:55Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:37:07Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:37:16Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:37:25Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:38:04Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:38:07Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:39:00Z clarkema quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-04T22:40:34Z sparta9aa quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-04T22:40:36Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:41:23Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-04T22:41:25Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:42:46Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:44:00Z reb` joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:44:25Z wheelsucker quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T22:44:46Z chelium quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:45:20Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T22:50:47Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:53:30Z Denommus` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-04T22:55:09Z Denommus` joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:55:27Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:57:14Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-04T22:57:52Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:00:42Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-04T23:01:38Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:01:55Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:02:06Z _3DAA joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:03:29Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T23:04:46Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:06:13Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:06:27Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:07:22Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:07:56Z ft joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:08:23Z earl-ducaine quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T23:11:09Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:12:05Z _3DAA quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-04T23:12:31Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:15:55Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:17:42Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-04T23:18:01Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:18:16Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:23:09Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:23:37Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:23:54Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:24:11Z Denommus` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:25:18Z Denommus` joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:25:58Z AJavaIdiot: Silly question, but how's my indentation? http://paste.lisp.org/display/304556
2016-01-04T23:26:11Z AJavaIdiot: I'm comfortable reading it, but is it "idiomatic", for lack of a better word?
2016-01-04T23:26:47Z bcoburn_: parens on their own lines is pretty unusual
2016-01-04T23:26:56Z mood: AJavaIdiot: Place the closing )s all on one line, and you're pretty close to idiomatic
2016-01-04T23:27:00Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:27:14Z AJavaIdiot: I think that's the C programmer in me, bcoburn_
2016-01-04T23:28:26Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:29:10Z AJavaIdiot: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304557
2016-01-04T23:29:18Z AJavaIdiot: Would this be better, mood?
2016-01-04T23:29:44Z AJavaIdiot: missed one in putfile
2016-01-04T23:34:13Z jasom: AJavaIdiot: I don't put spaces between multiple opening ( on a line, which you do in the cond
2016-01-04T23:34:25Z jasom: and I don't think I've seen that before
2016-01-04T23:35:06Z jasom: oh, and anything of the form (with-foo (stuff) should indent the following line by 2
2016-01-04T23:35:16Z jasom: so the loop in getfile should be indented by two more
2016-01-04T23:36:59Z AJavaIdiot: and also in putfile then
2016-01-04T23:37:01Z jasom: and arguments should be indented past the openeng parens; emacs will by defualt line up your keyword pairs in putfile with the start of (merge-pathnames... but it also wouldn't be wrong to line them up with the start of out
2016-01-04T23:37:02Z AJavaIdiot: ok, thanks jasom
2016-01-04T23:37:20Z jasom: either way the keyword pairs you have in putfile need to be indented by at least one more
2016-01-04T23:37:56Z AJavaIdiot: much appreciated
2016-01-04T23:38:07Z jasom: there is a decent standalone lisp source-code formatter somewhere... let me check
2016-01-04T23:38:29Z Guest67686 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:38:30Z AJavaIdiot: I'd be thankful if you linked me to it
2016-01-04T23:38:40Z jasom: AJavaIdiot: looking now
2016-01-04T23:38:44Z AJavaIdiot: ty
2016-01-04T23:40:23Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:40:41Z jasom: AJavaIdiot: here's one https://web.archive.org/web/20111108151416/http://evalwhen.com/scmindent/lispindent.lisp
2016-01-04T23:41:22Z quazimodo quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-04T23:41:50Z sshirokov joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:42:26Z jasom: http://ds26gte.github.io/scmindent/index.html <-- same program but not from the internet archive
2016-01-04T23:42:31Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:42:41Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:43:06Z AJavaIdiot: the last one gives me a 404
2016-01-04T23:43:12Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T23:43:18Z AJavaIdiot: but the code from web archive works too
2016-01-04T23:43:19Z AJavaIdiot: thanks jasom
2016-01-04T23:43:30Z jasom: https://github.com/ds26gte/scmindent
2016-01-04T23:43:38Z jasom: bah, I mis-copied
2016-01-04T23:44:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:44:12Z jasom: C-L in chrome highlights but does not move to the primary selection; occasionally confuses me
2016-01-04T23:44:20Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:44:47Z AJavaIdiot: it's ok, no harm done :D
2016-01-04T23:45:51Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:46:34Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:47:14Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-04T23:47:16Z jasom: it's not as nice as what slime does, because slime can read the argument lists of your macros and be smarter
2016-01-04T23:47:21Z quazimod1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T23:47:21Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-04T23:47:37Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:47:38Z jasom: but it is better than nothing (and you can manually add names of macros that you want treated differently to the lispwords file
2016-01-04T23:48:56Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-04T23:49:39Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-04T23:54:26Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:56:15Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-04T23:59:14Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-05T00:01:04Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T00:01:31Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:02:18Z ur5us joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:02:41Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T00:03:24Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:07:50Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T00:12:18Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:16:58Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-05T00:17:10Z jesusito quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T00:18:05Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T00:19:02Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:22:01Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:22:04Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:22:24Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T00:24:12Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T00:24:44Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:27:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T00:38:26Z agumonkey joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:40:52Z danlei joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:41:17Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-05T00:43:23Z agumonkey quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-05T00:43:53Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: flet a let over my lambda)
2016-01-05T00:45:07Z isoraqathedh: Hm, there seems to be no library for working with Exiftool.
2016-01-05T00:46:24Z jasom: uiop:run-program :P
2016-01-05T00:47:43Z isoraqathedh: But then I'll have to paaaarse ooooutpuuut.
2016-01-05T00:47:46Z isoraqathedh: (Oh well, that'll do.)
2016-01-05T00:50:58Z nyef: Parse the EXIF data directly instead of using a tool?
2016-01-05T00:51:17Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T00:52:20Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:53:00Z fsmunoz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T00:55:35Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T00:58:13Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T00:58:37Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-05T00:59:31Z je4i: http://www.xach.com/lisp/zpb-exif/
2016-01-05T01:09:39Z isoraqathedh: Eh, I tried that, it didn't pick it up. Apparently `exiftool` stores the metadata as an RDF at the end (?) of the file.
2016-01-05T01:09:54Z isoraqathedh: And of course the documentation of cl-rdfxml is sparse.
2016-01-05T01:13:31Z zacharias quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T01:13:37Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:14:24Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T01:19:46Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:25:18Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T01:28:20Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T01:28:41Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:31:50Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-05T01:32:05Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:34:58Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:37:15Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:37:34Z ajf- quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-05T01:37:52Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:39:29Z ajf- quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-05T01:40:11Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:42:01Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-05T01:44:08Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:44:27Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:44:29Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T01:45:32Z baboon` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T01:48:25Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-05T01:49:06Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T01:50:27Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-05T01:53:06Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T01:58:55Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:02:40Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:05:05Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:05:15Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:06:11Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-05T02:06:16Z danlei quit (Quit: Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung.)
2016-01-05T02:06:38Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:08:55Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:09:41Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:11:47Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:12:39Z jleija quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:13:08Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:13:32Z Denommus quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-05T02:15:02Z Denommus` is now known as Denommus
2016-01-05T02:17:05Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:17:23Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:18:35Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-05T02:20:30Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:23:54Z ur5us quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T02:24:11Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:26:06Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:28:14Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-05T02:30:28Z ajf- quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-05T02:32:07Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:34:56Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:34:57Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:35:41Z lnostdal_ is now known as lnostdal
2016-01-05T02:40:49Z jleija quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:43:22Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:45:58Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-05T02:46:01Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:49:06Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T02:50:09Z yeticry quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T02:51:06Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:51:38Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:55:34Z lurker left #lisp
2016-01-05T02:56:24Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-05T02:59:46Z aap joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:02:09Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-05T03:03:28Z aap_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T03:06:24Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T03:07:13Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:08:04Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T03:12:40Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:18:45Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:19:02Z loke joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:19:56Z bcoburn_l joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:21:13Z bcoburn_u joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:21:17Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:21:40Z Habens joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:23:32Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T03:24:28Z bcoburn_l quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T03:24:59Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:25:35Z Habens quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-05T03:26:00Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T03:35:45Z sfa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T03:36:29Z bcoburn_u is now known as bcoburn
2016-01-05T03:37:19Z sfa joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:37:50Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:47:30Z pwnie quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-05T03:47:54Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:50:05Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T03:50:41Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T03:51:32Z spill joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:58:11Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-05T03:58:13Z spill quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-05T03:59:26Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-05T04:00:21Z ur5us joined #lisp
2016-01-05T04:01:09Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-05T04:03:14Z |3b| quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T04:03:16Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T04:05:04Z csziacobus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T04:05:35Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T04:06:06Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T04:09:56Z |3b|`` joined #lisp
2016-01-05T04:13:15Z Lord_Nightmare2 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T04:14:19Z Lord_Nightmare2 is now known as Lord_Nightmare
2016-01-05T04:17:43Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-05T04:17:50Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-05T04:18:04Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2016-01-05T04:18:23Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-05T04:21:53Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T04:22:01Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T04:22:44Z drmeister: Hi beach - happy New Year.
2016-01-05T04:22:57Z beach: Thanks!  You too!
2016-01-05T04:23:00Z beach: Any resolutions?
2016-01-05T04:24:12Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-05T04:24:18Z drmeister: No, I just have drives.
2016-01-05T04:24:24Z akkad: getting this in ccl 'Error: File #P"/var/log/hosts/usr/bin/crontab.log" does not exist.' yet my (handler-case (progn ,@body) (end-of-file () (sleep 1)) ((or stream-error file-error) (condition) (format t "We got file-error: ~A~%" condition)) does not seem to catch it properly and prevent debugger entry
2016-01-05T04:26:53Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T04:31:46Z Bicyclidine: guess it's not a file-error, then.
2016-01-05T04:32:27Z akkad: is there a way in the debugger to get the exact condition that triggered it?
2016-01-05T04:33:01Z Bicyclidine: yeah, but you can just do (handler-case whatever (t (c) c))
2016-01-05T04:33:18Z Bicyclidine: i don't get that error on opening a nonexistent file, incidentally
2016-01-05T04:34:12Z akkad: ccl:simple-file-error maybe?
2016-01-05T04:34:22Z akkad: I think it's dir permissions
2016-01-05T04:34:30Z akkad: sbcl just ignores this. cl-fad:walk-directory
2016-01-05T04:35:14Z Bicyclidine: simple-file-error is a subclass of file-error
2016-01-05T04:35:30Z lisp542 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T04:36:30Z lisp542 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-05T04:39:19Z akkad: k
2016-01-05T04:41:14Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T04:41:47Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T04:43:31Z drmeister: beach: Do you have any recommendations for a good book on writing a Lisp interpreter?
2016-01-05T04:44:33Z trinitr0n: drmeister: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0694003611/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451969039&sr=8-1
2016-01-05T04:44:39Z beach: The only one I can think of at this time would be LiSP.  Maybe also Allen's book "Anatomy of Lisp".
2016-01-05T04:46:24Z beach: PAIP has a few chapters on interpreting/compiling Lisp as well.
2016-01-05T04:47:21Z beach: drmeister: What distinguishing features do you want your interpreter to have?
2016-01-05T04:48:14Z drmeister: PAIP?
2016-01-05T04:48:23Z beach: minion: Please tell drmeister about PAIP.
2016-01-05T04:48:24Z minion: drmeister: PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming
2016-01-05T04:48:31Z beach: By Peter Norvig.
2016-01-05T04:49:05Z beach: Do you want it to be small?  Have fast "compilation"?  Have fast execution?  Something else?
2016-01-05T04:49:52Z drmeister: I want it to be fast and I want to implement it in C++.
2016-01-05T04:49:53Z beach: Or maybe you are just doing this as a programming exercise?
2016-01-05T04:50:11Z beach: Fast compilation or fast execution?
2016-01-05T04:50:27Z beach: There is always some "compilation" involved.
2016-01-05T04:51:11Z drmeister: A tradeoff of both.   It's purpose is to replace my S-expression walker and bclasp.
2016-01-05T04:51:23Z drmeister: Its - (sigh)
2016-01-05T04:51:39Z beach: And what is wrong with what you have?
2016-01-05T04:51:54Z drmeister: Slow
2016-01-05T04:54:25Z beach: If you want fast execution, and you can't generate native code, then I think a bytecode interpreter is the best alternative.  Is there any reason you don't want a compiler that generates native code?
2016-01-05T04:54:39Z drmeister: There, I just ordered a used copy of Anatomy of Lisp.
2016-01-05T04:54:49Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2016-01-05T04:54:56Z beach: Oh, it's still in print?  Amazing.
2016-01-05T04:55:08Z beach: In many ways, it is easier to understand than LiSP.
2016-01-05T04:55:38Z akkad left #lisp
2016-01-05T04:59:32Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-05T04:59:56Z drmeister: I could generate LLVM-IR - so I could generate native code or a byte-code interpreter.  I'll decide later.
2016-01-05T05:12:39Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-05T05:14:26Z tokik quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T05:15:58Z nyef: I found something interesting not so long ago: There are some CPU simulators out there that operate by translating the target CPU instruction set to bytecode, then either interpreting the bytecode or translating it further to host machine code.
2016-01-05T05:16:37Z tokik joined #lisp
2016-01-05T05:16:58Z psy_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-05T05:17:02Z beach: Interesting.
2016-01-05T05:17:48Z beach: It reminds me of the technology that Digital Equipment developed in order to translate VAX code to Alpha code.
2016-01-05T05:17:56Z nyef: An example of the bytecode interpreter approach would be GXemul. An example of the bytecode-as-intermediate-translation approach would be QEMU.
2016-01-05T05:18:00Z beach: That was some amazing research.
2016-01-05T05:18:17Z nyef: Ooh. Link?
2016-01-05T05:18:36Z beach: Not sure about a link.  It was published in many journals and conferences.
2016-01-05T05:18:42Z beach: ... at least as I recall.
2016-01-05T05:19:30Z nyef: Hrm... Okay, so I'll just have to do some digging myself then.
2016-01-05T05:19:35Z beach: I can give you the main points as I remember them...
2016-01-05T05:19:42Z H4ns: should not be hard, it was rather well discussed back then
2016-01-05T05:20:01Z beach: Yeah, OK, fair enough.
2016-01-05T05:22:31Z beach: nyef: Googling "translating VAX to Alpha Digital Equipement" gave some useful links.
2016-01-05T05:22:47Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T05:22:54Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-05T05:23:43Z nyef: Thanks. That was pretty much the keyword set that I was going to start with. (-:
2016-01-05T05:24:12Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-05T05:25:13Z H4ns: the dec technical journal vol 4 no 4 has the "binary translation" article
2016-01-05T05:28:30Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T05:34:31Z bcoburn_n joined #lisp
2016-01-05T05:37:53Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T05:37:57Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-05T05:44:29Z beach: Short progress report on Cluffer: I have near 100% coverage on the tests of the edit protocol.  I am making small modifications to the update protocol, and after that I will write the tests for that as well.  Documentation of the client protocols is almost done.  I have yet to write documentation for maintainers and creators of new implementations of the client protocols.
2016-01-05T05:45:26Z tokik quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T05:45:27Z beach: And I have yet to write an article about Cluffer to submit to ELS. :)
2016-01-05T05:46:16Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-05T05:47:31Z tokik joined #lisp
2016-01-05T05:47:32Z danlei joined #lisp
2016-01-05T05:47:41Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-05T05:48:34Z bcoburn_n quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T05:49:11Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T05:56:02Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T05:58:53Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-05T06:00:48Z tokik quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T06:01:56Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:02:09Z tokik joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:06:11Z larme quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-05T06:07:09Z nyef: Hunh. Multi-block machine idiom detection. Neat.
2016-01-05T06:07:10Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T06:08:35Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-05T06:08:54Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:13:48Z nyef: Okay, I kindof see how to make that happen.
2016-01-05T06:17:15Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:18:24Z beach: nyef: Is this VAX->Alpha?  Neat stuff, huh?
2016-01-05T06:19:26Z gniourf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T06:20:16Z nyef: That's actually from the MIPS->Alpha one, but yeah.
2016-01-05T06:20:20Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:20:48Z beach: The technique invented by the DEC people is not specific to VAX.
2016-01-05T06:22:36Z nyef: It's fairly obvious how it would work, just from the description, it checks for a particular sort of flow graph, where there's a condition leading to a consequent and possibly an alternate, and the consequent (and alternate, if present) are simple moves, and it generates a predicated move instead of the branches.
2016-01-05T06:23:20Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:23:30Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:23:44Z beach: Oh, I guess I didn't know about that aspect.
2016-01-05T06:24:44Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:24:48Z akkad: Ober: https://gist.github.com/88b0a6a271263ad39773 that look clean enough?
2016-01-05T06:25:10Z akkad: rather it does.
2016-01-05T06:26:11Z gniourf quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-05T06:27:38Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-05T06:28:20Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T06:30:29Z larme joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:31:55Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T06:36:55Z tokik quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T06:37:07Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:39:11Z tokik joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:40:15Z loke: akkad: You can write that as (< 0 diff seconds-ago)
2016-01-05T06:49:43Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-05T06:50:50Z alvin- joined #lisp
2016-01-05T06:51:53Z ur5us quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T06:59:15Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:01:11Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:02:13Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:02:26Z qubitnerd is now known as Guest92414
2016-01-05T07:03:18Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T07:05:50Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:05:52Z cpc26_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:07:18Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T07:09:09Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T07:10:38Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:18:35Z Guest92414 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T07:19:26Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T07:19:47Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T07:20:00Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:20:33Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:24:18Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:25:50Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-05T07:27:46Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:30:00Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T07:30:59Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T07:39:11Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:44:03Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T07:45:47Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-05T07:47:38Z cyphase joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:49:31Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:50:04Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T07:50:20Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:50:54Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:51:18Z nell quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-05T07:51:49Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:56:14Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T07:57:19Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T07:58:00Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T07:58:55Z loke joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:01:38Z tcr_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T08:03:42Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:06:25Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:11:07Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:11:46Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:17:55Z zeraceth is now known as zerac
2016-01-05T08:18:37Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:20:34Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:23:36Z araujo_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-05T08:26:24Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:27:25Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:31:24Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T08:32:28Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T08:32:54Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:34:07Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:34:25Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:34:48Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-05T08:37:32Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T08:38:38Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:39:53Z tokik quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T08:41:29Z tokik joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:44:15Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T08:45:17Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:50:59Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:53:07Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:56:19Z danlei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T08:57:50Z Guthur joined #lisp
2016-01-05T08:58:24Z anti-freeze quit
2016-01-05T08:59:50Z alvin- quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T09:00:04Z alvin- joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:02:50Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:08:01Z BRODUS joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:08:40Z BRODUS: how can I access the slots of a class from within a common lisp object
2016-01-05T09:09:00Z BRODUS: s/class/instance
2016-01-05T09:09:04Z synchromesh: BRODUS: clhs slot-value
2016-01-05T09:09:11Z synchromesh: clhs slot-value
2016-01-05T09:09:11Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_slt_va.htm
2016-01-05T09:09:19Z BRODUS: thanks
2016-01-05T09:09:23Z synchromesh: NP
2016-01-05T09:10:36Z yvm: Why CFFI creates class with no slots for translating cstruct?
2016-01-05T09:11:12Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:13:01Z jesusito joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:14:22Z Guest88361 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T09:15:07Z BRODUS: synchromesh: Oh I think I wasn't clear.  I'm creating an object using make-instance, some of the slots define functions that need to reference other functions within the instance.  I guess I'm looking for the common lisp equivalent of 'this' or 'self'
2016-01-05T09:17:23Z synchromesh: BRODUS: CLOS is based around generic functions rather than "class methods" as such, so none of the generic function parameters is priviledged as "this" (although in practice the first parameter often is). See Siebel for more background: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-generic-functions.html
2016-01-05T09:18:27Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:18:38Z synchromesh: s/Siebel/Seibel/g
2016-01-05T09:20:11Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T09:22:01Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:23:02Z Guest88361 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:24:47Z loke: BRODUS: slots don't define functions. Exactly what is it you're doing?
2016-01-05T09:24:53Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-05T09:25:57Z synchromesh: BRODUS: Usually you end up doing that sort of self-referential initialisation in the INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :AROUND method.
2016-01-05T09:27:30Z loke: synchromesh: Umm, how and when? (I use a lot of CLOS, and I have used :around methods on initialize-instance maybe twice, ever)
2016-01-05T09:27:31Z BRODUS: loke: why not? they can hold a reference to a function no?
2016-01-05T09:27:48Z loke: BRODUS: They can, but generally don't.
2016-01-05T09:28:27Z loke: BRODUS: I think you might not understand yet how methods work in CLOS, and you try to assign functions to a class.
2016-01-05T09:29:31Z synchromesh: loke: Sorry, I meant to say :AFTER not :AROUND.
2016-01-05T09:29:48Z loke: synchromesh: Ah yes. Then it makes sense.
2016-01-05T09:29:50Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:30:08Z synchromesh: loke: Not enough coffee yet.
2016-01-05T09:30:22Z loke: You can do some pretty "interesting" stuff with :around methods on it though :-)
2016-01-05T09:31:27Z BRODUS: well, thanks for the help, sounds like i have some reading to do
2016-01-05T09:31:46Z loke: synchromesh: I found my ;around method on initialzie-instance:
2016-01-05T09:31:48Z loke: synchromesh: https://github.com/cicakhq/potato/blob/master/src/potato/metaclasses.lisp#L144
2016-01-05T09:32:32Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T09:32:35Z loke: BRODUS: I presume you have Java or C++ experience. The key thing to remember is that methods are not tied to a class, but are standalone. This standalone concept is called "generic function".
2016-01-05T09:32:58Z alvin- quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T09:33:14Z loke: BRODUS: A generic function can have many concrete implementations. Each implementation is called a "method" of the generic function.
2016-01-05T09:33:32Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:33:53Z splittist: unless the methods are combined, or enhanced with :around et al
2016-01-05T09:34:14Z loke: splittist: Of course, but let's not rush ahead too quickly :-)
2016-01-05T09:34:30Z splittist: Indeed (:
2016-01-05T09:35:51Z loke: Seems like BRODUS is out reading something now, anyway :-)
2016-01-05T09:38:11Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:44:43Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:44:54Z jesusito left #lisp
2016-01-05T09:45:20Z splittist: I wonder if beach actually uses all the tex packages listed at the beginning of Cluffer.tex...
2016-01-05T09:45:26Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:45:57Z BRODUS quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-05T09:46:24Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T09:46:41Z BRODUS joined #lisp
2016-01-05T09:55:50Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T09:57:00Z xorox90 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:00:46Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:02:28Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:03:40Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:05:18Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T10:05:41Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T10:05:43Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:13:20Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T10:13:50Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T10:14:01Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:15:13Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:18:23Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:18:59Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T10:31:41Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T10:33:07Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:33:46Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T10:36:04Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T10:38:14Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:40:47Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T10:43:03Z Heranort_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T10:45:34Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T10:47:05Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:47:05Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-05T10:47:05Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:47:43Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-05T10:48:08Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:48:27Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:49:58Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-05T10:50:48Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:51:56Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2016-01-05T10:52:09Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-05T10:52:53Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:54:26Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-05T10:54:38Z splittist: beach: line 42 chap-supplied-implementations.tex : 'standard' should be 'simple'.
2016-01-05T10:56:30Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T10:59:09Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T10:59:56Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:02:52Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:03:17Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:03:17Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-05T11:03:17Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:03:37Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:05:26Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:05:32Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:05:51Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:06:09Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:06:26Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:08:27Z jackdaniel reads about SRL (semantic role labeling) and sees sexps everywhere \o/
2016-01-05T11:08:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:14:48Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:18:11Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:19:35Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:21:49Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:21:49Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-05T11:21:49Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:25:16Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:29:20Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:29:46Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:31:13Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:34:03Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:35:57Z adhoc joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:38:12Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:39:52Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:44:02Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:44:59Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:46:30Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:48:06Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:48:16Z norfumpit joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:49:35Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T11:55:55Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T11:57:26Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:00:35Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:04:35Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:07:11Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T12:09:42Z Guthur quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T12:11:20Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:12:26Z detergnet quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T12:13:15Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-05T12:14:26Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T12:17:17Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T12:21:53Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:23:16Z splittist: beach: you're welcome (:
2016-01-05T12:27:56Z mbuf quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T12:30:18Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:30:38Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T12:30:56Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:30:57Z NeverDie quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-05T12:31:11Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:31:33Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:36:32Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T12:39:06Z BRODUS quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-05T12:42:59Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T12:44:16Z ggole__ is now known as ggole
2016-01-05T12:44:35Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-05T12:50:20Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:51:16Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:52:55Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T12:58:02Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:59:08Z lisp433 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T12:59:44Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T13:01:58Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:02:32Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T13:05:57Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:06:35Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T13:08:21Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:08:27Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-05T13:09:01Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:11:47Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:13:14Z msb joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:15:55Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:17:32Z eagleflo_ is now known as eagleflo
2016-01-05T13:18:53Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:20:18Z cpc26_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T13:25:05Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-05T13:26:18Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-05T13:28:32Z Nikotiin` joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:29:50Z Nikotiini quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T13:30:59Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:32:13Z przl quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-05T13:34:12Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:34:52Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:36:56Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T13:37:24Z Nikotiin` is now known as Nikotiini
2016-01-05T13:37:36Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:38:00Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:40:05Z LiamH quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-05T13:41:31Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:48:36Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T13:49:33Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:52:24Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-05T13:57:18Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:57:22Z ozihcs joined #lisp
2016-01-05T13:58:05Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:00:00Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:00:01Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-05T14:00:01Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:00:33Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:00:36Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-05T14:01:19Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:01:33Z ozihcs quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-05T14:03:17Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:04:35Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T14:07:27Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:08:35Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:10:44Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T14:11:26Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-05T14:12:47Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T14:13:30Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T14:13:45Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:13:58Z BWV988 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:14:15Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T14:14:28Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T14:14:38Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:14:44Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:15:22Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:15:33Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T14:15:39Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:18:54Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T14:21:02Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-05T14:21:21Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:22:56Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:24:06Z BWV988 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-05T14:27:43Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:31:26Z splittist: clhs unwind-protect
2016-01-05T14:31:26Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_unwind.htm
2016-01-05T14:32:08Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:33:37Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T14:37:59Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T14:39:34Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:39:58Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:45:15Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:48:04Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:52:00Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-05T14:52:43Z lisp433 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:00:56Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:02:15Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:02:57Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:03:27Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:04:56Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:05:07Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:05:08Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-05T15:05:08Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:05:09Z danlei joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:05:12Z seg quit (Quit: kuwabara kuwabara)
2016-01-05T15:05:56Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-05T15:07:15Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:10:08Z seg joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:10:25Z loke` joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:12:17Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-05T15:14:13Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:15:03Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:18:33Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:18:58Z sweater is now known as Guest52277
2016-01-05T15:20:27Z clop: is there a better way to manipulate the environment in cmucl than using *environment-list*?  I just want a setenv/getenv that actually works (manipulating the *environment-list* doesn't seem to affect the actual environment for foreign code)
2016-01-05T15:20:59Z loke`: clop: Out of curiousity, why are you using CMUCL?
2016-01-05T15:22:21Z clop: loke, i don't use it myself, but ACL2 can run on it... I'm maintaining ACL2's connection to Quicklisp
2016-01-05T15:22:32Z loke`: clop: I see.
2016-01-05T15:23:05Z loke`: clop: To be honest, I don't know anything about CMUCL. But, what mechanism are you using to run the external programme?
2016-01-05T15:24:15Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:24:22Z clop: i don't actually know, something in the asdf system seems to be querying the environment instead of *environment-list*
2016-01-05T15:24:48Z loke`: clop: What part of the environment (i.e. which variable) is queried?
2016-01-05T15:24:58Z d00der joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:25:16Z d00der: Anyone get their hands on Common Lisp Recipes yet?
2016-01-05T15:25:32Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:25:57Z splittist: d00der: virtual hands on the PDF. Just finished reading about the pretty printer, I think.
2016-01-05T15:26:09Z d00der: Nice. How is it?
2016-01-05T15:26:41Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:26:46Z splittist: Very good. Not many typos, a nice style, and an interesting range of topics. Of course, the second half might be rubbish (:
2016-01-05T15:27:02Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:27:32Z d00der: Haha. Good to hear. I've got a couple projects in mind and was going to go with C but am thinking to impulse buy it and do them in CL
2016-01-05T15:27:37Z loke`: d00der: I ordered it on paper
2016-01-05T15:27:52Z loke`: Paper version was only 10 dollors cheaper than paper, so why not?
2016-01-05T15:28:03Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-05T15:28:23Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:28:36Z d00der: Yeah I always prefer paper.. But I'm weird that way..
2016-01-05T15:29:31Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:29:35Z splittist: I'll probably get the paper version, too. It's not like I'm going to go broke buying newly published lisp books.
2016-01-05T15:29:55Z loke`: I don't prefer paper, but this one is an exception. Three reasons: 1) I partly buy this is a gesture of support for the CL community. 2) This is not a novel that I'll read from start to finish, but rather casually browse during breakfast. 3) The digital version was only slightly cheaper than the paper one.
2016-01-05T15:30:03Z d00der: Exactly.. Feels like forever ago I bought Practical Common Lisp
2016-01-05T15:30:57Z loke`: d00der: PCL and QL was what got me back into Lisp a few years ago. Now I rarely use anything else.
2016-01-05T15:31:31Z synchromesh also plans to buy the dead tree edition
2016-01-05T15:31:32Z d00der: I've been away from CL for a long time. But I've been playing around with it again lately. Lots of great new libraries since then. And quicklisp is a godsend...
2016-01-05T15:32:18Z d00der: I had sbcl running caveman2 in like 5 minutes. eight years ago getting a library going was a nightmare
2016-01-05T15:32:21Z loke`: And without CL, my company would have had to use Lync... I'd never have persevered in building Potato in anything else. :-)
2016-01-05T15:32:22Z loke`: http://potato.dhsdevelopments.com/
2016-01-05T15:32:37Z loke`: I mean https://github.com/cicakhq/potato
2016-01-05T15:33:04Z d00der: loke`: cool, I'll check it out
2016-01-05T15:36:21Z synchromesh: Do any Lispers here have a considered opinion on Go (the language, not the game)?
2016-01-05T15:37:26Z jesusito joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:37:29Z loke`: synchromesh: I don't think there is a generic "lispers opinion" on it.
2016-01-05T15:37:31Z jackdaniel: someone claimed some time ago that he hates it
2016-01-05T15:37:38Z loke`: I have mine, as im sure others have too.
2016-01-05T15:37:43Z jackdaniel: but I like a game :)
2016-01-05T15:37:49Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:37:49Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-05T15:37:49Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:38:00Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-05T15:38:01Z dwchandler: I think Go is neither horrible nor great, for that type of language
2016-01-05T15:38:06Z Zhivago: I'm not particularly impressed by the language, but it has great tooling.
2016-01-05T15:38:19Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-05T15:38:28Z dwchandler: It's a bit disappointing Go didn't go full actor model
2016-01-05T15:38:41Z dougk_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T15:39:30Z Zhivago: By that, do you mean rather erlang style processes?
2016-01-05T15:39:35Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:39:54Z dwchandler: I have a friend who writes go, and sometimes pastes code he's trying to debug. I am surprised at the amount of scaffolding, given it's a "modern" language.
2016-01-05T15:40:42Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:40:43Z dwchandler: Zhivago: Well, erlang I guess, but other langs use actor model also. Message passing to share stuff.
2016-01-05T15:41:29Z Zhivago: Well, they do that via channels -- I'm guessing you'd rather they had boundaries to pointers?
2016-01-05T15:41:38Z dwchandler: Go's channels aren't quite there, and they are single-type channels, which can be a bit of a pain
2016-01-05T15:42:32Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:42:44Z Guest52277 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:42:48Z dwchandler: But I think Go fills a certain niche fairly well. I don't hate it.
2016-01-05T15:42:49Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:43:38Z d00der quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-05T15:44:33Z synchromesh: Cheers folks!
2016-01-05T15:44:44Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:45:16Z dwchandler: Something I love about Go: people who love mainstream OO style exceptions get really upset and bitchy :-)
2016-01-05T15:45:21Z loke`: It seems like people have the same opinion about Go as I do. So perhaps there is a general Lispers opinion on it?
2016-01-05T15:45:54Z loke`: dwchandler: Yet you do Common Lisp, which has exacactly that type of error handling?
2016-01-05T15:46:14Z dlowe: signals are a lot more awesome than exceptions
2016-01-05T15:46:25Z dwchandler: I wouldn't say that. Conditions are like exceptions that someone thought about first ;-)
2016-01-05T15:46:35Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-05T15:47:16Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-05T15:47:45Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-05T15:48:17Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:49:23Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:49:57Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:50:12Z reb`: I've written a fair amount of Go code.  It's not terrible.  I think I perfer it to Java.  Lots of error checking code, some boilerplate, etc.
2016-01-05T15:51:18Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:51:21Z z0d: you prefer it to Java? that's not saying much... <-:
2016-01-05T15:53:11Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T15:53:42Z synchromesh: I've managed to get ABCL to start up on Google App Engine, but the cold-start time for servlets is ~50s. Apparently Go apps can start in ~300ms, so I'm forced to consider it.
2016-01-05T15:54:33Z dwchandler: That's actually fifty SECONDS?! Wow.
2016-01-05T15:55:35Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T15:55:39Z |3b|`` is now known as |3b|
2016-01-05T15:56:19Z synchromesh: As part of a general philosophical question - how much work/time can/should I put into being able to use Lisp (c.f. ParenScript) vs. just using those other languages (e.g. SCSS, XSLT) or a better-suited language to the environment (e.g. Go)? Time being money and all that.
2016-01-05T15:57:22Z White_Flame: I'd say it depends on how much future you have with it
2016-01-05T15:57:34Z White_Flame: if it's a one off that won't be maintained, meh, do it in whatever
2016-01-05T15:57:41Z synchromesh: dwchandler: Yes, it's not a great start. There are some optimisations I can try, but it's never going to be great. Unless I can prune e.g. the compiler, unused library code etc.
2016-01-05T15:57:50Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:57:58Z White_Flame: If it's something you're going to be living with & modifying, there's up-front costs with long-tail benefits not just to you but to the open source upstream
2016-01-05T15:58:30Z synchromesh: White_Flame: I'd like to use it to build an empire of highly-automated, low-maintenance lucrative web apps, so it's definitely the former.
2016-01-05T15:58:59Z synchromesh: White_Flame: (sorry, the latter)
2016-01-05T15:59:29Z White_Flame: I do find that I've gotten the most cross-project code reuse out of Lisp than other languages
2016-01-05T15:59:33Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-05T15:59:52Z White_Flame: so that's certainly worth considering if you're going to have a bunch of independent projects
2016-01-05T16:00:12Z synchromesh: That's the attraction - in principle one's Lisp DSLs can compile to web apps, native apps, desktop apps etc.
2016-01-05T16:00:37Z White_Flame: you mean like this? http://ceramic.github.io/ ;)
2016-01-05T16:01:00Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:01:17Z synchromesh: But App Engine is a fairly constrained environment so I'm not sure whether I'll get those benefits particularly.
2016-01-05T16:01:32Z synchromesh: Yes, I've seen Ceramic, it looks very nice.
2016-01-05T16:02:29Z synchromesh: Which is a good point - perhaps App Engine is too Procrustean and I should just go with something in a Docker (or Google Cloud) container instead.
2016-01-05T16:02:31Z dwchandler: synchromesh: have you looked at alternatives to app engine? why pick that? not saying you've made a bad choice, but wondering...
2016-01-05T16:02:42Z dwchandler: Ahh, there you go :)
2016-01-05T16:03:13Z Zhivago: App Engine design is pretty much dominated by the database they provide.
2016-01-05T16:03:14Z dwchandler: explore your options :)
2016-01-05T16:03:23Z Zhivago: See if it is a good fit to your use-cases first.
2016-01-05T16:03:56Z synchromesh: dwchandler: The deal as I imagined it was "I jump through your design/architucture hoops and you take care of all the scaling & other admin" but this initial trouble with cold-start times suggests that deal might be off.
2016-01-05T16:04:18Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-05T16:05:27Z dlowe: synchromesh: I think you're way over-designing for something that doesn't exist yet. A single host on the internet will easily handle tens of thousands of users in whatever language.
2016-01-05T16:05:46Z synchromesh: dlowe: I think you're right there.
2016-01-05T16:06:13Z dlowe: synchromesh: just write your thing in whatever will get it done fastest (I like CL) and solve the problems as they come
2016-01-05T16:06:34Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:06:44Z dwchandler: also depends on the kind of "apps" you want
2016-01-05T16:07:53Z dwchandler: for client-side heavy (javascript), the server just serves stuff and can handle tons of clients
2016-01-05T16:09:16Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-05T16:11:37Z rpg: I've found a few oddities in SLIME's fontification:  places where it seems to incorrectly characterize arguments as excess when they are not. If I was to pastebin a code snippet, could someone please verify that this is SLIME and not some pathology of my emacs configuration?
2016-01-05T16:11:51Z lurker joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:12:22Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:12:34Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T16:12:36Z synchromesh: Yes, I see your point(s). I don't really want to have to administer Linux server instances in the cloud (I run my own Gentoo box in the garage, but it's not my core competency) but I should probably look at running things in containers.
2016-01-05T16:13:06Z rpg: http://pastebin.com/FdX1svKR
2016-01-05T16:15:17Z synchromesh: rpg: Not sure what you mean by "incorrectly characterize arguments as excess".
2016-01-05T16:15:30Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T16:15:51Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:16:01Z rpg: for me, SLIME highlights the (required) final argument to find-if in the pastebin snippet in bright red; which I believe means that SLIME thinks that argument should not be there.
2016-01-05T16:16:05Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T16:16:52Z synchromesh: rpg: Then you have enabled SLIME fontification that I'm unaware of... I don't see anything like that.
2016-01-05T16:17:29Z rpg: synchromesh: thank you! that's what I needed to know. I don't have a good way to test "vanilla SLIME," so if you don't see this, it's probably an error in my configuration.
2016-01-05T16:18:12Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:19:39Z loke`: rpg: that highlight happens for me too
2016-01-05T16:19:58Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:20:05Z loke`: rpg: It always does that when you have a symbol following on the same line as the end of a multi-line list
2016-01-05T16:20:19Z loke`: rpg: put a newline before hypo...
2016-01-05T16:20:42Z rpg: loke`: thanks! that was really confusing me.
2016-01-05T16:21:50Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T16:21:58Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-05T16:22:09Z loke`: I'm not sure where that highlight comes from, but I like it. It helps me notice when I accidentally put stuff there (which can easily be mistaken to be part of the list)
2016-01-05T16:22:15Z loke`: I think it's triggered by paredit
2016-01-05T16:22:26Z rpg: One more highlighting question: seems like anything starting by "check" gets highlighted in red.
2016-01-05T16:22:41Z rpg: loke`: It's not paredit; I'm not using it.
2016-01-05T16:22:54Z loke`: OK
2016-01-05T16:23:08Z loke`: Well, it's not from slime-highlight, because it had it before i used it.
2016-01-05T16:23:55Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-05T16:24:48Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-05T16:26:21Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-05T16:26:57Z rpg: maybe slime-fontifying-fu? that comes with slime-fancy.
2016-01-05T16:27:16Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:27:17Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-05T16:27:17Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:27:44Z splittist: rpg: it's not a standard emacsy thing, like TODO ?
2016-01-05T16:27:59Z rpg: splittist: Honestly, no idea.
2016-01-05T16:28:19Z rpg: splittist: I ought to be able to see if it happens in emacs-lisp mode....
2016-01-05T16:28:26Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-05T16:29:17Z rpg: splittist: Yes, it does happen in emacs-lisp mode. too -- so it's not a SLIME thing.
2016-01-05T16:29:39Z Vityok quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T16:30:08Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:31:46Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:33:00Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:33:12Z splittist: beach: should cluffer:line-number accept a cursor?
2016-01-05T16:37:46Z drmeister: If two packages export symbols with the same name A:FOO B:FOO and package C wants to use both packages A and B - what is the best way to do this?
2016-01-05T16:38:11Z drmeister: Lets say I want C to inherit A:FOO and not B:FOO.
2016-01-05T16:38:29Z drmeister: Do I shadow-import A:FOO and then have C use A and B?
2016-01-05T16:40:04Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T16:40:26Z phoe_krk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T16:41:36Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:42:31Z jesusito left #lisp
2016-01-05T16:42:54Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:44:06Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-05T16:45:05Z je4i: yes shadowing-import as edi explains on p 14 of cl-recipes
2016-01-05T16:47:05Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-05T16:53:07Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T16:55:50Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:56:16Z dtw left #lisp
2016-01-05T16:56:38Z flip214: how can I get the stream associated with a hunchentoot request? I'd like to resize the output buffer; strace shows 4KiB, which is too small for my purposes.
2016-01-05T16:58:19Z rpg: Another SLIME question: it seems like SLIME pervasively puts default values into the prompt line, instead of using emacs defaulting capabilities. Anyone know why that decision was made?
2016-01-05T16:58:31Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T16:58:51Z rpg: It has the somewhat undesirable consequence of making us delete the default value before supplying an alternate.
2016-01-05T16:59:47Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T17:00:38Z je4i: flip214: hunchentoot:request has a slot content-stream. Is that what you are looking for?
2016-01-05T17:01:14Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:02:03Z flip214: je4i: probably... need to find out how to resize without destroying eventual contents, though. thanks!
2016-01-05T17:02:07Z flip214: (defmethod initialize-connection-stream ((acceptor acceptor) stream)
2016-01-05T17:02:09Z flip214: is what I just found
2016-01-05T17:03:35Z cmack joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:05:38Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T17:06:26Z flip214: je4i: A stream from which the request
2016-01-05T17:06:27Z flip214: body can be read if there is one.
2016-01-05T17:06:32Z flip214: ie. post data.
2016-01-05T17:08:14Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T17:08:15Z je4i: there is also get-post-data (&key (request *request*) want-stream (already-read 0))
2016-01-05T17:08:15Z je4i:   "Reads the request body from the stream and stores the raw contents
2016-01-05T17:08:15Z je4i: \(as an array of octets) in the corresponding slot of the REQUEST
2016-01-05T17:08:15Z je4i: object.  Returns just the stream if WANT-STREAM is true.  If there's a
2016-01-05T17:08:18Z je4i: Content-Length header, it is assumed, that ALREADY-READ octets have
2016-01-05T17:08:21Z je4i: already been read."
2016-01-05T17:09:39Z flip214: I guess I need to use SEND-HEADERS and modify the returned stream
2016-01-05T17:11:47Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:12:13Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:14:48Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:16:09Z tristero quit (Quit: tristero)
2016-01-05T17:16:45Z tristero joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:20:00Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T17:22:41Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:23:17Z jackdaniel: clhs defstruct
2016-01-05T17:23:17Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm
2016-01-05T17:23:54Z je4i quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-05T17:24:39Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-05T17:25:55Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T17:28:31Z tobel quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-05T17:31:14Z jlarocco_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:31:17Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:33:23Z decinn joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:37:18Z pseudo_sue: hey, does anyone know where I might be able to dig up a copy of "Genetic Programming: The Movie" (the vhs tape accompanying Koza's 1992 book on GP in lisp)?
2016-01-05T17:42:25Z warweasle: After a quick look, I think it's a "Stand Alone Complex".
2016-01-05T17:43:20Z pseudo_sue: thanks for taking a look. it seems to have more or less vanished from the surface of the earth, aside from a few $150 copies on amazon
2016-01-05T17:43:59Z warweasle: There is no, and never was an original. But it's existence is not as important as the ideas it suppositly contains.
2016-01-05T17:44:09Z warweasle is just joking. 
2016-01-05T17:44:21Z warweasle: But all I found were circular links.
2016-01-05T17:45:15Z pseudo_sue: lol
2016-01-05T17:46:41Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T17:48:08Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:48:45Z yrk: cl+ssl (via zs3) errors on only some GNU machines, but not others... weird. wondering what's the culprit
2016-01-05T17:49:25Z tcr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T17:49:29Z Bicyclidine: looks like three of koza's four books have dieo tapes, and none of them look very available for download. you probably have to hunt.
2016-01-05T17:49:58Z pseudo_sue: yeah, this looks like a time to refamiliarize myself with interlibrary loan
2016-01-05T17:50:11Z pseudo_sue: it's funny how long it's been since I actually had to hunt for a hard copy of... anything
2016-01-05T17:50:35Z decinn quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-05T17:53:06Z warweasle: Wow. Something not youtube in this day and age.
2016-01-05T17:53:13Z ajf- quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-05T17:53:28Z pseudo_sue: the mind reels
2016-01-05T17:53:45Z warweasle: Which can mean only one thing: Conspiracy. This video is crucial to the freedom of the world!
2016-01-05T17:53:50Z dwchandler: maybe on vimeo, then
2016-01-05T17:54:22Z pseudo_sue: there's simply no other possibility: it was destroyed by Sarah Connor, in the mid 1990s.
2016-01-05T17:54:40Z warweasle: I'll notify the tin-foil initiative.
2016-01-05T17:54:52Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:57:14Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:57:35Z pseudo_sue: hey, while we're talking videos, anyone have any suggestions for interesting lisp tutorials? I'm pretty new to the language. I've started following the SICP lectures (which are wonderful), but would be interested in some other practical -- maybe systems-level, or network related -- tutorials/seminars as well
2016-01-05T17:58:03Z pseudo_sue: (anything dealing with GP and lisp, in particular, would be awesome)
2016-01-05T17:58:26Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T17:58:33Z pseudo_sue: I know I can comb through youtube for this, but I'd like to hear some favourites.
2016-01-05T17:58:55Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T17:58:57Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: There was a series where someone made a ray-tracer in lisp. It helped me understand how emacs/slime/lisp are used together. And then there is "Land of Lisp"
2016-01-05T17:59:15Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-05T17:59:29Z pseudo_sue: nice. emacs+slime is a beautiful environment. It's what I'm using too. I'll google ray-tracer...
2016-01-05T17:59:40Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: It even has a music video: (defmethod test ((this function)) (print "this is a function!"))
2016-01-05T17:59:47Z pseudo_sue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1oMRw04W3E looks like it
2016-01-05T18:00:31Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T18:01:28Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: That music video should teach you everything you ever need to know about lisp. Ever.
2016-01-05T18:01:36Z pseudo_sue: I think I've got land of lisp kicking around as a pdf somewhere. I picked up a copy of Realm of Racket, hoping to get one of my kids into it early.
2016-01-05T18:02:34Z pseudo_sue: I don't consider a language elegant unless everything I need to know about it can be compressed into a music video. This is good news.
2016-01-05T18:02:58Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: So lisp and forth, huh?
2016-01-05T18:03:45Z shka: pseudo_sue: you made my day
2016-01-05T18:04:13Z warweasle: That reminds me, I need to finish cl-balance-weasles-on-rake.
2016-01-05T18:05:31Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:06:59Z splittist: Land of Lisp seems kid-friendly, but uses a fairly obscure style (lots of "(car (assoc (cadr ...") and doesn't create 3D games on a tablet...
2016-01-05T18:07:17Z splittist: Realm of Racket seems to be aimed at sour undergraduates.
2016-01-05T18:07:31Z warweasle: splittist: I'm working on a Unity replacement in lisp. I just need a few days to finish it.
2016-01-05T18:08:02Z radioninja_work quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T18:08:05Z pseudo_sue: shka: :) ; warweasel: yep.
2016-01-05T18:08:43Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: Allow me to introduce #lispgames
2016-01-05T18:08:49Z pseudo_sue: splittist: ha! yeah, I actually only got as far as the mopey kid getting sucked into schemeland...
2016-01-05T18:08:59Z adhoc joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:09:04Z pseudo_sue: nice. I'll check it out, warweasel.
2016-01-05T18:09:08Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:09:09Z mordocai likes land of lisp and realm of racket. Is not a sour undergraduate.
2016-01-05T18:11:13Z shka: land of lisp is actually really good book imho
2016-01-05T18:11:28Z shka: examples are entertaining
2016-01-05T18:11:39Z pseudo_sue: oh, I haven't given up on realm of racket yet. or land of lisp (which I was enjoying for a while, until something or other clobbered my schedule)
2016-01-05T18:11:46Z holycow: i agree with shka
2016-01-05T18:12:00Z shka: i really like evolution
2016-01-05T18:12:04Z shka: and dice of doom
2016-01-05T18:13:06Z Colleen__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T18:15:26Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T18:15:41Z holycow: it is a king of challenging book
2016-01-05T18:15:50Z BRODUS joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:15:51Z holycow: it isn't really step by step, it jumps around quite a bit
2016-01-05T18:16:14Z holycow: a lot of the work is in forcing your self to stop and understand what a piece of the code is actually doing ... and if you don't understand it to actually do the work to get it
2016-01-05T18:16:46Z Colleen joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:16:48Z holycow: a lot of fun though, and the examples are real fun examples so its a great book imo
2016-01-05T18:16:49Z shka: but that's a good thing
2016-01-05T18:16:57Z holycow: i think so yes.
2016-01-05T18:17:17Z shka: nodoby likes to be spoon-feeded
2016-01-05T18:17:35Z mordocai: Well, some people do. They probably aren't lisp programmers though
2016-01-05T18:17:35Z holycow: well it gets boring.  a lot of the other books out there are greate support books for this one
2016-01-05T18:17:58Z holycow: there is one that is really step by step and excellent but holy crap is it boring
2016-01-05T18:17:59Z holycow: :)
2016-01-05T18:19:10Z holycow: mordocai: i agree, you need both types of resources.  my issue has always been incentive to really learn it fully.  land of lisp shows some simple examples and how to get there, you have to dig up the step by step stuff for the difficult bits
2016-01-05T18:19:15Z pseudo_sue: hey, found my land_of_lisp.mobi. this is a good day.
2016-01-05T18:19:18Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T18:19:51Z shka: pseudo_sue: enjoy it!
2016-01-05T18:19:52Z pseudo_sue: speaking of which, anyone want a copy?
2016-01-05T18:19:53Z shka: it is fun
2016-01-05T18:19:55Z pseudo_sue: I will.
2016-01-05T18:20:21Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:21:48Z Noname___ quit (Quit: Noname___)
2016-01-05T18:21:55Z pseudo_sue: https://itmb.co/m3w5s if anyone wants one. it's in mobi format, for ebook readers
2016-01-05T18:22:44Z warweasle: I'll just have to get mine back from the intern, who I'm fairly certain didn't read any of it.
2016-01-05T18:24:02Z holycow: i lost mine, i have to buy another one
2016-01-05T18:24:24Z mordocai: I have a copy under my bed.
2016-01-05T18:24:37Z mordocai: It protects me from monsters
2016-01-05T18:24:43Z holycow: heh
2016-01-05T18:24:52Z holycow: i just love that he fricking illustrated it
2016-01-05T18:25:09Z holycow: what an amazing way to talk about a language
2016-01-05T18:25:46Z dwchandler: I have a hardcopy, but nice to have ebook too
2016-01-05T18:27:20Z mordocai: Yeah, I have both. I use the hardcopy when I feel like reading in bed and the ebook when I work through examples.
2016-01-05T18:28:09Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-05T18:28:14Z dwchandler: I do it exactly the other way around :D
2016-01-05T18:28:32Z pseudo_sue: I've got a big soft spot for old school text adventures. that's something I remember getting a kick out of w that book.
2016-01-05T18:28:39Z pseudo_sue: a *case insensitive* text adventure too.
2016-01-05T18:29:07Z pseudo_sue: reminds me of when I used to write those things in GWBASIC as a kid
2016-01-05T18:29:53Z mordocai: dwchandler: Dual monitors makes ebook + programming really nice IMHO
2016-01-05T18:30:00Z pseudo_sue is lost in a monochrome haze of nostalgia
2016-01-05T18:30:39Z pseudo_sue: mordocai: yeah, I'm using a setup like that right now, actually.
2016-01-05T18:30:46Z dwchandler: mordocai: sure. I use hardcopy so I'm not tempted to copy/paste code. I learn/remember better when I type it in.
2016-01-05T18:31:14Z warweasle: Does anyone remember the "Micro-Adventures"? They were stories with little programs in them that had something to do with the book.
2016-01-05T18:31:22Z pseudo_sue: same. sometimes I retype copyable code just for the sake of finger exercise/muscle memory
2016-01-05T18:31:42Z pseudo_sue: oh jeez, I remember those, i think. I think we used to get those out of my elementary school library
2016-01-05T18:31:44Z warweasle: I still have a few of them.
2016-01-05T18:31:53Z pseudo_sue: the code was all basic, right?
2016-01-05T18:32:02Z pseudo_sue: I haven't seen those in freaking DECADES
2016-01-05T18:32:10Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: Yes. I loved them.
2016-01-05T18:32:11Z pseudo_sue: do you know where to find any?
2016-01-05T18:32:59Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: Yes. They're on a shelf in my office.
2016-01-05T18:33:11Z pseudo_sue: right where I least expected them...
2016-01-05T18:33:30Z pseudo_sue: i wonder if any have been scanned, out there in cyberspace...
2016-01-05T18:34:04Z pseudo_sue: aw bummer. thought I found a whole website, and it was some dude's travel blog...
2016-01-05T18:34:15Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:34:29Z pseudo_sue: dammit, the travel journalism industry is burying these gems! we must act fast.
2016-01-05T18:35:08Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:35:13Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: LOL!
2016-01-05T18:35:36Z pseudo_sue: one penny! http://www.amazon.ca/Big-Freeze-Jean-M-Favors/dp/0590333836/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1452018911&sr=8-5&keywords=%22micro-adventures%22
2016-01-05T18:35:40Z warweasle: I found some on amazon, for pennies.
2016-01-05T18:35:57Z pseudo_sue: let's see if it's not $35 shipping...
2016-01-05T18:36:06Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:36:22Z holycow: heh
2016-01-05T18:36:28Z pseudo_sue: $6.49 shipping. i can live with that
2016-01-05T18:36:36Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: It's not on prime.
2016-01-05T18:38:06Z warweasle: You should see if one seller has them all. It will only cost 7 cents more.
2016-01-05T18:38:18Z pseudo_sue: Big Freeze, Spellbonud & Time Trap. Yeah, but that makes them an unexpected surprise, in 4-6 weeks' time
2016-01-05T18:38:23Z pseudo_sue: good point
2016-01-05T18:39:06Z pseudo_sue: was the code in these for GWBASIC or Commodore BASIC? Did it matter? it's been a while
2016-01-05T18:39:47Z pseudo_sue: Irssi: #gwbasic: Total of 1 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0  normal"
2016-01-05T18:39:56Z pseudo_sue: all quiet on the basic front
2016-01-05T18:40:32Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-05T18:41:31Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: It's not GW-BASIC. That's what I had and they didn't work.
2016-01-05T18:41:47Z TMM quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T18:42:03Z warweasle: pseudo_sue: Well, some of them didn't.
2016-01-05T18:42:27Z pseudo_sue: wouldn't be hard to find an emulator for whatever it uses, these days
2016-01-05T18:42:53Z pseudo_sue: probably commodore, would be my guess. I have an old machine. it'd be fun to give it something to do.
2016-01-05T18:43:51Z mordocai: dwchandler: Oh yeah, as far as typing stuff vs copy and paste. I broke myself of copy and pasting a long ago when teaching myself how to program. I can't remember the last time I copy and pasted something from a book I was learning from rather than typing it.
2016-01-05T18:44:40Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-05T18:45:03Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:45:03Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-05T18:45:03Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:52:03Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:52:20Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:53:58Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-05T18:55:42Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-05T18:55:55Z pbgc quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-05T18:57:04Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-05T18:59:06Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-05T19:02:58Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T19:11:40Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:13:11Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:14:39Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T19:16:28Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:18:32Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-05T19:18:54Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T19:19:58Z Colleen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T19:20:26Z Colleen joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:21:22Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:24:04Z tharugrim joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:25:38Z danlei quit (Quit: Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung.)
2016-01-05T19:29:19Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:32:51Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T19:33:26Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:36:47Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:40:55Z jasom quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T19:41:15Z bgs100 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:45:51Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-05T19:47:03Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:50:32Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-05T19:54:00Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:54:55Z ur5us_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:58:18Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-05T19:58:22Z jasom joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:59:13Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-05T19:59:23Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:02:57Z ggole quit
2016-01-05T20:05:41Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: água de rosas, carla)
2016-01-05T20:07:51Z danlei joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:12:14Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T20:13:34Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:17:15Z TMM quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T20:20:16Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-05T20:20:34Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T20:22:16Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-05T20:22:48Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:22:50Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:24:44Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:26:44Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:26:44Z tcr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T20:28:14Z tobel joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:28:14Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:29:27Z tobel left #lisp
2016-01-05T20:29:37Z tobel joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:32:20Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T20:35:03Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-05T20:36:20Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:37:44Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:41:56Z futpib_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:42:10Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T20:44:43Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:44:59Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-05T20:50:10Z BRODUS quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-05T20:54:02Z BRODUS joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:00:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T21:01:29Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:02:06Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T21:02:39Z |3b| quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T21:02:55Z ur5us_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T21:03:02Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:04:06Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T21:04:41Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:05:14Z alex`` left #lisp
2016-01-05T21:05:43Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:07:00Z rpg_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:07:14Z rpg_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-05T21:09:55Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T21:13:24Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-05T21:18:20Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:22:15Z cyphase quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T21:25:53Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-05T21:32:24Z lurker quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T21:32:40Z sz0 is now known as sz0`
2016-01-05T21:35:18Z cyphase joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:36:09Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-05T21:36:21Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:36:54Z katco quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-05T21:37:01Z katco joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:37:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:37:22Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-05T21:37:23Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:38:49Z Guest52277 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:42:00Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T21:42:44Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-05T21:43:47Z Guest52277 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T21:45:57Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:46:54Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T21:46:59Z newcup quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T21:47:40Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:48:42Z BRODUS quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-05T21:49:45Z jasom quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2016-01-05T21:50:24Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-05T21:50:56Z lisse quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-05T21:55:00Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:00:18Z warweasle quit (Quit: Later)
2016-01-05T22:00:28Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T22:02:13Z jasom joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:03:30Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T22:07:18Z Seteeri joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:11:48Z cadadar left #lisp
2016-01-05T22:12:17Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-05T22:13:29Z theverbg joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:16:46Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:21:47Z jasom quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-05T22:23:29Z holycow quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-05T22:23:39Z jasom joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:25:32Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:25:56Z holycow is now known as Guest52474
2016-01-05T22:26:11Z Xach quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T22:26:42Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:28:46Z jasom quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T22:31:07Z akkad: is there a way at an assert/break prompt to get the name of the condition that triggered it?
2016-01-05T22:31:13Z akkad: ccl specically
2016-01-05T22:33:18Z Bicyclidine: in sldb, it's C
2016-01-05T22:33:32Z prxq: akkad: if you are using slime, that information should be directly visible in the debug buffer
2016-01-05T22:33:44Z akkad: remote binary, no slime
2016-01-05T22:33:54Z Bicyclidine: ah, let's see...
2016-01-05T22:34:08Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T22:34:57Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T22:35:11Z Bicyclidine: i don't actually see it. but you can always do (handler-case offending-form (t (c) c)) to get a hold of the object.
2016-01-05T22:35:57Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-05T22:38:07Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:39:09Z HardWall quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T22:40:34Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T22:41:33Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:45:36Z Guest52277 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:46:41Z jasom joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:46:48Z moore33 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-05T22:47:29Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T22:48:08Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:49:51Z mishoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T22:50:08Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:51:33Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:52:38Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T22:53:23Z akkad: t? not familiar with that
2016-01-05T22:54:47Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-05T22:55:02Z Bicyclidine: it just evaluates the offending-form, and if a condition of type t (i.e. any error) is signaled, it executes ((lambda (c) c) that-condition).
2016-01-05T22:55:16Z Bicyclidine: and returns that, instead of going to the debugger or whatnot.
2016-01-05T22:56:26Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-05T22:57:14Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-05T22:57:25Z HardWall quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-05T22:58:15Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-05T22:58:41Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-05T22:58:52Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:01:30Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:03:28Z fuzhon joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:03:31Z fuzhon: ahh it's a wonderful day
2016-01-05T23:07:42Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:13:35Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-05T23:17:34Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T23:19:58Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:25:39Z fuzhon quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-05T23:26:11Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:26:15Z lateral left #lisp
2016-01-05T23:27:46Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T23:34:39Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:35:36Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:37:26Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T23:39:39Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:40:48Z theverbg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-05T23:43:26Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T23:45:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T23:46:39Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T23:47:06Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-05T23:48:19Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:51:42Z newcup joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:52:12Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-05T23:54:04Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T23:55:09Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-05T23:57:44Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-05T23:58:26Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-05T23:58:34Z theverbg joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:00:00Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-06T00:08:00Z papachan quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-06T00:12:45Z myrkraverk quit (Quit: Reconnecting…)
2016-01-06T00:12:56Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:19:55Z Guest52277 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T00:20:27Z Guest52277 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:22:41Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:23:13Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2016-01-06T00:25:35Z cyphase quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T00:27:24Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T00:33:30Z theverbg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T00:34:42Z ACE_Recliner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T00:37:02Z cyphase joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:39:37Z decinn joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:40:24Z decinn quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T00:49:41Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T00:49:47Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T00:51:32Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T00:51:38Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:52:10Z yrdz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T00:54:05Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:54:07Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:55:02Z je4i` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T00:55:22Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:55:23Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T00:58:12Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T00:58:15Z warweasle` joined #lisp
2016-01-06T00:58:49Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:00:08Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T01:00:22Z warweasle` is now known as warweasle
2016-01-06T01:02:01Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:03:19Z Seteeri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T01:03:55Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-06T01:04:03Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T01:05:00Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:11:14Z ajf- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T01:12:45Z ur5us_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:13:31Z futpib_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T01:17:15Z Guest52277 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-06T01:20:31Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T01:20:56Z yrdz quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-06T01:22:52Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T01:23:13Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:29:13Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:29:16Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T01:32:17Z happy-dude quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T01:33:25Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:37:32Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-06T01:38:53Z akkad: oh true. derp. thanks.
2016-01-06T01:41:40Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:46:03Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:46:44Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:49:18Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T01:53:51Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T01:54:21Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-06T01:56:13Z warweasle quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T02:01:29Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T02:08:15Z Jonsky joined #lisp
2016-01-06T02:09:18Z Jonsky: Out of curiosity, I asked Lisp to calculate (factorial 10000)
2016-01-06T02:09:28Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-06T02:09:36Z Jonsky: It gave me the answer within 2 sec
2016-01-06T02:09:39Z Jonsky: Crazy
2016-01-06T02:12:33Z resttime: Out of curiosity, I asked Lisp to calculate (factorial 10000) and I got [Condition of type UNDEFINED-FUNCTION] instantly :(
2016-01-06T02:13:48Z Zhivago: jonsky: Welcome to indefinite precision integer support.
2016-01-06T02:13:57Z Zhivago: Although you'll find many other languages support it also.
2016-01-06T02:14:11Z Jonsky: I just watched the number flush my screen and I felt very happy....
2016-01-06T02:16:25Z Jonsky: resttime: I feel sorry for your repl...
2016-01-06T02:20:05Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T02:22:42Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-06T02:24:12Z resttime: TCO factorial 0.058 seconds: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304611
2016-01-06T02:24:46Z Bicyclidine: yeah, the slow part is printing it out
2016-01-06T02:29:19Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T02:29:56Z Jonsky: Hmmm I never thought of writing it this way, so neat
2016-01-06T02:30:29Z Jonsky: I just used the textbook example and made a (labels) LOL
2016-01-06T02:31:53Z danlei` joined #lisp
2016-01-06T02:33:21Z Bicyclidine: (* (sqrt (* 2 pi n)) (expt (/ n (exp 1)) n)) is good enough for anyone, i say
2016-01-06T02:34:26Z resttime: CPS factorial: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304611#1
2016-01-06T02:34:30Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-06T02:35:36Z danlei quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T02:36:46Z tharugrim quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T02:36:57Z resttime: Wait I think I did this before
2016-01-06T02:37:34Z resttime: http://paste.lisp.org/display/159750#1
2016-01-06T02:38:03Z resttime: Hehehe found it in some IRC logs.
2016-01-06T02:45:14Z danlei` is now known as danlei
2016-01-06T02:48:15Z newcup quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T02:51:33Z nzambe quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-06T02:52:09Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-06T02:52:17Z zophy quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T02:52:40Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-06T02:54:09Z newcup joined #lisp
2016-01-06T02:58:35Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:00:34Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:01:59Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T03:02:26Z scottj joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:09:16Z voidlily quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T03:12:04Z voidlily joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:12:38Z incal joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:14:41Z incal: I'm on Elisp: how does one use `cl-remove' or `cl-delete' (or the equivalent) *with strings*? they don't catch the equivalents what I can see but I get it to work with numbers. do they use some predicate that doesn't play with strings?
2016-01-06T03:15:07Z ryan_vw quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-06T03:15:35Z incal: I also get it to work with `cl-remove-if' and then a lambda with `string=' to do it manually
2016-01-06T03:16:24Z Bicyclidine: you might be better off in an emacs channel, but yes, i imagine the default predicate doesn't work well with strings.
2016-01-06T03:16:26Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:16:33Z Bicyclidine: if those functions are like the cl ones, you'd use :test #'string=
2016-01-06T03:16:40Z Bicyclidine: well, for remove anyway.
2016-01-06T03:16:51Z incal: thx, brb
2016-01-06T03:18:42Z psy_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-06T03:18:48Z incal: yes, that works, thanks man
2016-01-06T03:19:44Z warweasle` joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:20:54Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:22:01Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T03:22:32Z warweasle`: Question about allocating resources. If I (load "...") a lisp file, and it runs commands and stores the result, but doesn't wrap them in a function: will it store all the data it no longer needs?
2016-01-06T03:23:13Z warweasle`: I'm trying to load 3D assets this way and I don't want to keep an unused copy of the data just because I loaded it somewhere.
2016-01-06T03:23:42Z pillton: LOAD is capable of modifying the global environment.
2016-01-06T03:24:50Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T03:25:05Z pillton: Loading is no different to copying and pasting the file in to the REPL.
2016-01-06T03:25:34Z warweasle`: pillton: So it should go away when gc finds the data is not accessible?
2016-01-06T03:25:41Z pillton: Yes.
2016-01-06T03:25:50Z warweasle`: pillton: Aswsome
2016-01-06T03:26:09Z warweasle`: pillton: What if I compile it into a fasl?
2016-01-06T03:26:27Z pillton: FASL == Fast loading.
2016-01-06T03:26:38Z warweasle`: pillton: But no differenece?
2016-01-06T03:26:53Z Bicyclidine: then there are some hard-to-concisely-explain semantic differences, but there's nothing magically GC-immune
2016-01-06T03:27:36Z resttime: If the 3D assets are loaded via CFFI, be careful.
2016-01-06T03:28:37Z Bicyclidine: of course, if you have (defvar *name* [a whole shitload of data here]) then that will still be accessible, and so on
2016-01-06T03:28:51Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-06T03:29:00Z Bicyclidine: if you don't do something to *name*. normal stuff
2016-01-06T03:29:02Z warweasle`: Is there a way to return a value from a load?
2016-01-06T03:29:13Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:29:36Z Bicyclidine: no. if you need something like that, put it in a variable.
2016-01-06T03:30:45Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:31:57Z pillton: warweasle`: You are better off implementing something like (load-3d-asset name) then relying on LOAD.
2016-01-06T03:32:19Z Bicyclidine: oh, yeah, if that's what you're doing, definitely don't have your assets be arbitrary lisp files or somethin
2016-01-06T03:33:08Z warweasle`: Bicyclidine: Why not?
2016-01-06T03:33:55Z Bicyclidine: it's not a very efficient encoding, and having your assets perform arbitrary side effects is insecure and confusing
2016-01-06T03:34:16Z warweasle`: Ahh.
2016-01-06T03:34:26Z Bicyclidine: plus you'd have to do something weird-looking to "return a value" as you want to do
2016-01-06T03:34:42Z pillton: And it avoids your question entirely.
2016-01-06T03:35:16Z Bicyclidine: XBM images are C headers, and they killed that format way back in 89~
2016-01-06T03:35:19Z warweasle`: eventually I think I'll use conspack, but I'm just getting stuff working.
2016-01-06T03:36:30Z pillton: I don't think the standard specifies anything about a garbage collector.
2016-01-06T03:36:34Z Bicyclidine: you could do something basic like writing out floats in text and reading them back in, in a fixed format (3 coords and 2 texcoords per line, something like that)
2016-01-06T03:37:00Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:37:17Z warweasle`: I like the idea that lisp can be used as a dynamic format.
2016-01-06T03:40:18Z pillton: The only issue you have with using the reader is that some lisps have limits on the number of atoms between ( and ).
2016-01-06T03:41:16Z Bicyclidine: i can think of more issues than that
2016-01-06T03:42:00Z pillton: Apart from performance?
2016-01-06T03:42:18Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T03:42:49Z Bicyclidine: sure. writing floats in decimal is weird, off the top of my head.
2016-01-06T03:43:31Z warweasle`: Bicyclidine: I'm thinking fasls fix that.
2016-01-06T03:44:00Z Bicyclidine: that particular issue, maybe.
2016-01-06T03:49:22Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-06T03:51:12Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-06T04:01:30Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-06T04:02:57Z pillton: Isn't this just a representation issue? Doesn't (= x (read-from-string (format nil "~W" x))) hold for all x in number?
2016-01-06T04:07:50Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T04:14:35Z phryk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T04:16:51Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-06T04:21:15Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T04:21:53Z warweasle` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T04:29:21Z Bicyclidine: it seems to, but i didn't think it did. whoops.
2016-01-06T04:30:48Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-06T04:34:27Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-06T04:36:51Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-06T04:38:34Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-06T04:39:44Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-06T04:42:21Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T04:42:57Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-06T04:46:03Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T04:48:24Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-06T04:50:03Z Guest52474 quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-06T04:55:38Z cyphase quit (Quit: cyphase.com)
2016-01-06T05:00:29Z |3b| joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:00:56Z pwnie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T05:01:28Z pwnie joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:03:03Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T05:04:14Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T05:06:50Z vsync quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-06T05:08:19Z vsync joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:09:39Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:10:03Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-06T05:10:30Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-06T05:12:44Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:13:56Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:17:19Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:19:23Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-06T05:21:58Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:26:33Z UtkarshRay quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T05:26:40Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-06T05:29:40Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T05:31:52Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:32:38Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:33:05Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:35:39Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-06T05:39:14Z ur5us_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T05:40:29Z incal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T05:40:44Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-06T05:41:41Z vlnx quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T05:43:38Z vlnx joined #lisp
2016-01-06T05:57:14Z pwnie quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-06T05:59:20Z myrkraverk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T06:00:03Z sz0` is now known as sz0
2016-01-06T06:00:24Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-06T06:00:33Z sz0 is now known as sz0`
2016-01-06T06:01:44Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-06T06:01:58Z myrkraverk_ is now known as myrkraverk
2016-01-06T06:02:39Z MinnowTaur_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T06:15:54Z pjb: pillton: it should, but you may have surprises with floating point numbers. Sometimes, it's not roundtrip. But with IEEE, the implementation should be able to provide it.
2016-01-06T06:17:59Z jasom: and there's infinite values and NaN's though those may not be of type number
2016-01-06T06:21:07Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T06:21:38Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-06T06:28:52Z akkad: hmmm. any easy way to decompile a sbcl generated binary? coworker left without the source to a bin we use
2016-01-06T06:29:00Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T06:29:53Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-06T06:35:58Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T06:37:53Z pjb: It's true that CL doesn't specify a syntax for NANs; this could be a simple extension provided by the implementation.
2016-01-06T06:38:15Z pjb: akkad: how funny.
2016-01-06T06:40:36Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-06T06:47:40Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T06:52:01Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T06:53:47Z kushal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T06:59:06Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T07:00:05Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-06T07:01:03Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:04:21Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:07:23Z scottj left #lisp
2016-01-06T07:07:33Z beach: minion: memo for splittist: Yes, it is normal that the line-oriented functions of Cluffer accept a cursor as well.  I systematically define trampoline functions that make a recursive call with the line to which the cursor is attached, or to error if the cursor is detached.
2016-01-06T07:07:34Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell splittist when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-06T07:07:44Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:08:55Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T07:12:43Z pillton: jasom: I understand that there are infinite values however it is my understanding that only unique values of decode-float are elements of the type float.
2016-01-06T07:13:08Z pillton: G'day beach.
2016-01-06T07:13:38Z beach: Hey pillton.  I wish you a happy new Lisp year.
2016-01-06T07:14:05Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:14:16Z pillton: beach: Hopefully! I will start the year well.
2016-01-06T07:16:06Z pillton: pjb: Yep.
2016-01-06T07:16:09Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-06T07:17:20Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-06T07:17:25Z pillton: beach: Oh. Happy new lisp year to you too.
2016-01-06T07:19:09Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:24:06Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:25:46Z resttime quit (Quit: Bye bye!)
2016-01-06T07:27:16Z phryk joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:27:59Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:35:22Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-06T07:37:09Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:38:00Z danlei quit (Quit: Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung.)
2016-01-06T07:38:02Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:38:50Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T07:41:26Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:41:46Z blub` joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:44:15Z blub quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T07:45:35Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T07:49:39Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:57:06Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-06T07:58:00Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:01:46Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T08:03:12Z NaNDude quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T08:07:08Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-06T08:09:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:10:39Z xorox90 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:11:59Z justinmcp_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T08:12:13Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:13:06Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:13:27Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:15:12Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T08:16:59Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T08:18:14Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:19:15Z justinmcp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T08:19:35Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:19:46Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:20:57Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-06T08:21:19Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:21:35Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:23:12Z splittist: my memo, please, minion
2016-01-06T08:23:12Z minion: splittist, memo from beach: Yes, it is normal that the line-oriented functions of Cluffer accept a cursor as well.  I systematically define trampoline functions that make a recursive call with the line to which the cursor is attached, or to error if the cursor is detached.
2016-01-06T08:23:29Z myrkraverk: What would be a non-lisp year?
2016-01-06T08:23:31Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:25:05Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:25:20Z synchromesh: myrkraverk: Any year before 1958?
2016-01-06T08:25:43Z myrkraverk: possibly, possibly.
2016-01-06T08:26:50Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T08:27:03Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:28:18Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:29:08Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T08:30:40Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:30:55Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T08:31:54Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T08:32:14Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:33:33Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T08:35:57Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:36:46Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T08:37:53Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:37:55Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T08:39:29Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:39:54Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:40:22Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:40:40Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:40:50Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T08:41:51Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:45:43Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T08:46:55Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:47:33Z sz0` is now known as sz0
2016-01-06T08:47:41Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:48:11Z sz0 is now known as sz0`
2016-01-06T08:48:26Z ramky quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T08:48:57Z mateuszb quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T08:49:06Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:54:17Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:55:01Z yenda joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:57:13Z tharugrim joined #lisp
2016-01-06T08:57:17Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-06T09:02:14Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T09:10:34Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-06T09:15:58Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T09:18:42Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-06T09:20:07Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-06T09:22:13Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-06T09:22:24Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-06T09:23:44Z kp666 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T09:29:40Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-06T09:30:10Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T09:31:37Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-06T09:32:59Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-06T09:35:11Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T09:36:26Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T09:43:59Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-06T09:45:59Z tuxbrave_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T09:47:14Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T09:51:25Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T09:55:10Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:00:36Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T10:03:51Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:05:31Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:09:21Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T10:13:05Z cyphase_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:13:37Z [6502] joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:15:44Z [6502]: Hello... what is the result-form optional part of (dotimes ...) good for?
2016-01-06T10:19:21Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T10:20:05Z mood: [6502]: It allows you to specify what the (dotimes ...) will return
2016-01-06T10:21:11Z br0kenman joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:21:53Z [6502]: mood: i understand that... but is it used often? dotimes loops a prescribed number of times and cannot introduce extra locals... what can you compute there that can't be done right after the (dotimes ...) form?
2016-01-06T10:23:37Z [6502]: mood: at first sight seems just a method to shuffle around code in confusing ways...
2016-01-06T10:24:15Z mood: I don't think it's used much
2016-01-06T10:24:41Z mood: There are probably use-cases where it would make sense, but I can't currently think of any
2016-01-06T10:25:04Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:26:28Z [6502]: mood: i can only think to (dotimes (i (compute-count) i) ...)
2016-01-06T10:27:02Z [6502]: mood: but that would have been a perfect default instead of NIL, imo
2016-01-06T10:27:19Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:27:53Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:27:54Z splittist: [6502]: it could be the default return value if the loop doesn't exit otherwise. It makes more sense when you think of it as a restriction on DO.
2016-01-06T10:30:15Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T10:32:05Z [6502]: splittist: ah... (dotimes (i count <retval>) ... (return <otherval>) ...)
2016-01-06T10:32:09Z [6502]: splittist: this makes sense
2016-01-06T10:32:42Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:32:42Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-06T10:32:42Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:33:26Z [6502]: splittist: also makes sense to have dotimes returning NIL by default
2016-01-06T10:34:36Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T10:34:41Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-06T10:35:23Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:35:34Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:38:42Z chishiki1 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:38:51Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:39:44Z [6502]: splittist: it can also used to perform actions only in case the loop completed (like the strange "for ... else" or "while ... else" syntax in Python)
2016-01-06T10:39:44Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-06T10:40:23Z [6502]: thanks... back to coding
2016-01-06T10:40:33Z [6502] quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-06T10:44:29Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T10:45:24Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:46:24Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:46:54Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:47:22Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-06T10:53:37Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:00:02Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:05:29Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T11:05:45Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:06:05Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:06:37Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:09:23Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:09:24Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-06T11:09:57Z tos-1 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-06T11:16:21Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:16:26Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:26:19Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:26:54Z ajf- quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T11:27:03Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:29:56Z tuxbrave_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T11:31:30Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:36:59Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T11:38:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T11:42:33Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:44:16Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-06T11:44:58Z 16WAAHVVB joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:46:42Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T11:48:24Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T11:54:10Z justinmcp quit (Quit: justinmcp)
2016-01-06T11:54:38Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T11:55:16Z NaNDude joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:55:33Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:56:18Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:58:38Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T11:59:45Z 16WAAHVVB quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:02:06Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:02:10Z blub` is now known as blub
2016-01-06T12:03:42Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:05:02Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:09:03Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:15:09Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:17:14Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:18:31Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:19:14Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2016-01-06T12:21:01Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T12:22:39Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:24:14Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:25:38Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:28:21Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:28:35Z iddqd joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:29:14Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:29:33Z Posterdati: hi
2016-01-06T12:29:48Z Posterdati: why opencv was removed from quicklisp repository?
2016-01-06T12:33:11Z ferada_ is now known as ferada
2016-01-06T12:33:52Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:34:46Z tuxbrave_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:35:32Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:36:17Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-06T12:38:15Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:39:03Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:39:58Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:42:08Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:42:26Z attila_lendvai: Posterdati: can't find any sign of that here: http://blog.quicklisp.org/
2016-01-06T12:46:33Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:48:12Z ajf- quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-06T12:48:37Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-06T12:50:06Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T12:53:37Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:53:38Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:54:47Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-06T12:56:08Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:00:05Z yenda quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T13:01:35Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T13:07:54Z Posterdati: attila_lendvai: 2013?
2016-01-06T13:08:10Z Posterdati: attila_lendvai: I remember I installed via quicload
2016-01-06T13:08:31Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:09:48Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T13:15:16Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:16:44Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:16:55Z ajf- quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-06T13:17:19Z tuxbrave_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T13:18:00Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-06T13:20:39Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:25:06Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:26:36Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-06T13:28:21Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:29:32Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:34:23Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:36:17Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:37:20Z tuxbrave_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T13:37:42Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:38:03Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:40:22Z yenda joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:44:20Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T13:52:09Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:53:32Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:56:22Z Heranor__ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T13:56:40Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T13:59:42Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:00:35Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:00:38Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:08:08Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:09:08Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:09:54Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:10:14Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T14:11:56Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T14:13:34Z Heranor__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:14:22Z Xof quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:15:42Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:17:13Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:23:40Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:25:36Z Xach: Posterdati: I could not build it
2016-01-06T14:25:44Z Xach: that is almost the only reason things get removed
2016-01-06T14:27:28Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:27:56Z jchmrt quit (Quit: Farewell)
2016-01-06T14:28:40Z jchmrt joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:29:10Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:30:12Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:31:22Z jason_m quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T14:34:47Z Guest14 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:34:55Z Xof joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:39:10Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:43:31Z loke joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:43:34Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:44:07Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:44:33Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:45:24Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:47:25Z posterdati300 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:47:29Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:47:37Z rjmacready joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:48:11Z posterdati300 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T14:48:24Z posterdati300 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:49:30Z ramus quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:49:38Z sz0` is now known as sz0
2016-01-06T14:50:06Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: I'm staring at some libffi macroexpansion... it seems to me that it doesn't stick to the same assumptions re cffi:expand-from-foreign
2016-01-06T14:50:11Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:50:47Z marcoecc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T14:51:07Z marcoecc joined #lisp
2016-01-06T14:51:13Z posterdati300: finally they added again clisp in debian repository
2016-01-06T14:51:13Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: I think non-fsbv calls pass in a value-expression that return the value, while in case it's fsbv the expression is one mem-ref away, i.e. only the var from with-foreign-object
2016-01-06T14:53:56Z iddqd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-06T14:53:57Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: or maybe I'm misunderstanding the cffi api
2016-01-06T14:55:08Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-06T14:55:26Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T14:59:20Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T15:00:00Z marcoecc quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T15:00:38Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T15:01:37Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:02:17Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:02:17Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-06T15:02:17Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:07:24Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-06T15:10:00Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:10:24Z _JusSx_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:11:50Z Guest14 quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-06T15:13:20Z _JusSx_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T15:14:58Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:15:07Z yang quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T15:16:23Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:16:56Z tharugrim quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T15:20:16Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: I've pushed a failing test
2016-01-06T15:20:47Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: I don't understand, but it's been a while since I looked at the code. I'll take a look at your test.
2016-01-06T15:21:20Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: I'm not completely sure whether it's a bug, or it's an unjust expectation from me, but I think it's the former
2016-01-06T15:22:24Z LiamH: So, libffi works by making a pointer to every argument, then dereferencing it internally.
2016-01-06T15:23:07Z LiamH: So in cffi-libffi, we have to make a pointer to every single argument, even things like doubles and ints.
2016-01-06T15:23:42Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:23:47Z LiamH: That's the reason for the expand...-indirect function.
2016-01-06T15:26:10Z dogfood joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:26:13Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: this is dealing with the return-value only. the same applies there?
2016-01-06T15:28:29Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-06T15:29:22Z tharugrim joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:30:34Z yang joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:31:26Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-06T15:31:42Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-06T15:32:19Z rjmacready left #lisp
2016-01-06T15:33:06Z cabaire quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-06T15:33:16Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:33:57Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:34:47Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: Yes. libffi (and of course cffi-libffi) can also handle return-by-value structures.
2016-01-06T15:35:09Z LiamH: This is what I was trying to get at when we had the discussion before about your fix.
2016-01-06T15:35:22Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2016-01-06T15:35:38Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: so, my test is not a bug, but a wrong assumption about the CFFI API?
2016-01-06T15:35:39Z LiamH: The on-the-fly acceptance of pointers or values will work only function arguments, not for return values.
2016-01-06T15:36:02Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:36:08Z LiamH: Sorry, haven't looked at your test yet.
2016-01-06T15:36:21Z LiamH: hold on
2016-01-06T15:37:50Z LiamH: So if you declare it as a structure by value return, it should defreference the pointer and convert it.
2016-01-06T15:38:11Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:38:31Z attila_lendvai: the return value is an int
2016-01-06T15:40:13Z LiamH: That looks like a bug
2016-01-06T15:40:17Z nzambe: mood: i recently saw use of result-form along the following lines (defmethod foo :around (a baz)(dotimes (x (list in a) (call-next-method))(if no change necessary (return ...))))
2016-01-06T15:41:20Z nzambe: mood: so the around method checked if the actual method foo needed to be called and used the result-form to do so, i thought the idiom was neat
2016-01-06T15:41:36Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: I'll look into it later.
2016-01-06T15:43:41Z cabaire quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-06T15:43:57Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:45:26Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: ok, thanks! it smells like a non-trivial change... but it's not crucial for me, I just wanted to add a type that automatically signals an error, but I can special-case that function with a KLUDGE or something
2016-01-06T15:45:30Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T15:46:16Z khisanth_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:46:24Z nzambe: mood: the above was [6502] mixed the names in my going through the logs
2016-01-06T15:47:28Z mood: nzambe: No worries, I'm interested too. I think the idiom you describe makes it hard to see the intent behind the code while reading, though
2016-01-06T15:47:59Z marcoecc joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:49:57Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-06T15:50:23Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T15:51:06Z khisanth_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T15:51:56Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:53:08Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:59:16Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-06T15:59:24Z nzambe quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-06T16:00:38Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:00:48Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-06T16:01:01Z marcoecc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T16:01:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:01:07Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T16:01:46Z marcoecc joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:01:57Z marcoecc is now known as Guest32319
2016-01-06T16:02:18Z nzambe: mood: i see what you mean, i had read the description of what had to happen and so expected it but otherwise it would take some puzzling over
2016-01-06T16:04:43Z khisanth_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:06:15Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:06:45Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T16:07:21Z cabaire quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-06T16:08:15Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T16:10:01Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:10:27Z khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
2016-01-06T16:14:00Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:14:29Z Guest32319 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T16:16:08Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:16:35Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T16:16:49Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:16:56Z fourier quit (Changing host)
2016-01-06T16:16:56Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:18:05Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-06T16:19:06Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T16:19:50Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T16:21:40Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T16:24:37Z ramky quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T16:28:09Z rudolfochrist quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-06T16:28:11Z br0kenman quit (Quit: q)
2016-01-06T16:31:02Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:31:27Z sweater is now known as Guest56847
2016-01-06T16:31:56Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:33:34Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-06T16:35:42Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T16:36:36Z zadock joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:39:30Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T16:40:20Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T16:41:04Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-06T16:42:39Z theverbg joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:44:29Z Guest32319 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:46:22Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:46:31Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-06T16:48:30Z kami joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:48:38Z kami: Good evening
2016-01-06T16:48:47Z blub: hi kami
2016-01-06T16:50:26Z tharugrim quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T16:54:20Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-06T16:54:24Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T16:55:54Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T16:57:19Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:02:18Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:05:16Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:05:44Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-06T17:05:44Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:05:50Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T17:06:52Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T17:09:35Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:09:41Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-06T17:10:55Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:11:11Z theverbg quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:15:55Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:20:03Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-06T17:23:23Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:23:48Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:25:36Z theverbg joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:28:37Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-06T17:29:12Z trinque joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:31:18Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:32:48Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T17:33:14Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:35:12Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:35:37Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T17:36:47Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:37:06Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:40:35Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:41:07Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:42:09Z salv0 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:42:28Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:44:13Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:45:02Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:45:56Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:46:56Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:47:38Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:48:17Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:48:45Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:49:44Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T17:55:11Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:56:23Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T17:56:34Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T17:57:44Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-06T17:59:41Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T18:01:01Z Kruppe joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:02:23Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T18:03:10Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:03:11Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T18:04:19Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T18:04:23Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:06:11Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:06:12Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:06:56Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:09:12Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T18:09:55Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T18:10:32Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:10:55Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:11:08Z Bicyclidine quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T18:11:16Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:11:47Z theverbg quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T18:12:00Z rjmacready joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:13:01Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-06T18:13:12Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T18:13:26Z Bicyclidine quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T18:13:58Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:14:06Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:14:38Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:16:09Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:16:59Z tuxbrave_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T18:17:50Z cyberlard quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-06T18:18:28Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:18:44Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T18:20:23Z pbgc quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
2016-01-06T18:20:36Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:22:14Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T18:25:20Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T18:29:05Z ghard quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T18:32:19Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:35:15Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T18:37:12Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-06T18:40:22Z Kruppe joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:41:13Z drmeister: Hi - in sbcl (1.2.11) on OS/X I have SB-POSIX:FORK and SB-POSIX:GETENV but on Ubuntu (sbcl 1.1.14.debian) I don't.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to access FORK and GETENV in a portable way (OS/X vs Ubuntu)
2016-01-06T18:41:46Z Xach: drmeister: Is there any way to not use such a very old old old sbcl on ubuntu?
2016-01-06T18:43:14Z drmeister: I guess that's the problem - I installed it with apt-get - I would have thought it would be more up to date.
2016-01-06T18:43:20Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:44:31Z Xach: It's from 2013
2016-01-06T18:45:06Z flip214: drmeister: $ apt-cache policy sbcl
2016-01-06T18:45:10Z Xach: drmeister: you could use sb-alien, i think, to call those underlying functions directly.
2016-01-06T18:45:14Z flip214: says 2:1.3.1-1 for me.
2016-01-06T18:45:19Z Xach: drmeister: i don't have the exact syntax, though, sorry.
2016-01-06T18:45:21Z flip214: which ubuntu are you using?
2016-01-06T18:45:35Z flip214: drmeister: perhaps sb-unix is better?
2016-01-06T18:45:47Z Xach: sb-unix is not meant for user programs. it is a private package.
2016-01-06T18:45:49Z flip214: "better" as in "has these functions"?
2016-01-06T18:46:05Z ggole quit
2016-01-06T18:46:06Z flip214: Xach: and sb-posix isn't?
2016-01-06T18:46:13Z Xach: sb-posix is not private.
2016-01-06T18:46:19Z Xach: it is meant for users
2016-01-06T18:46:53Z flip214: okay...
2016-01-06T18:46:59Z dlowe: perhaps it would be more clear if sb-unix were named %sb-unix or something
2016-01-06T18:47:13Z pjb: On the other hand, you wouldn't dare using "SB-%POSIX".
2016-01-06T18:47:17Z Xach: the first word of the docstring is "private"
2016-01-06T18:47:18Z flip214: ah, "private" not as "compatible", as I mistakenly read. ("sb-" prefix!)
2016-01-06T18:47:25Z rjmacready left #lisp
2016-01-06T18:47:28Z dlowe: because it's not at all obvious when you look at apropos
2016-01-06T18:47:29Z Xach: as is the custom for all private sbcl packages
2016-01-06T18:47:36Z dlowe: you may never get to the docstring
2016-01-06T18:47:39Z PuercoPop: drmeister: use the sbcl from apt-get to compile sbcl from source and then remove the apt-get'ed package before doing make install
2016-01-06T18:47:51Z dlowe: don't even have to remove the package
2016-01-06T18:47:56Z dlowe: /usr/local/bin has priority
2016-01-06T18:48:09Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:49:01Z pjb: myrkraverk: a lisp year is prefixed. A non-lisp year would be infix.
2016-01-06T18:49:14Z flip214: just add debian unstable as package source, and install from there.
2016-01-06T18:49:17Z myrkraverk: pjb: c;
2016-01-06T18:51:31Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T18:51:40Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T18:52:24Z drmeister: Hmm, I better stick with the default, old sbcl.  This is for a scraper that I wrote in sbcl for the clasp build system.  I don't want to add another dependency for a recent version of sbcl.
2016-01-06T18:54:26Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:54:26Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-06T18:54:27Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-06T18:56:15Z Guest56847 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:02:22Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-06T19:08:14Z cyphase_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:10:42Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:10:53Z norfumpit quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:11:46Z norfumpit joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:11:50Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:15:07Z pjb: minion: memo for beach: You'll like this: https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2874238
2016-01-06T19:15:07Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-06T19:15:39Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:16:25Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:17:24Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:18:35Z dogfood quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:18:38Z flip214: pjb: are you interested in storage solutions?
2016-01-06T19:19:57Z pjb: it's part of a computer system.
2016-01-06T19:19:59Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:20:17Z pjb: I've at more than ten hard disks on my desk, so you may say yes.
2016-01-06T19:20:23Z pjb: s/at/got/
2016-01-06T19:20:38Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:20:53Z TMM quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T19:21:21Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T19:22:02Z jasom: I do too, but I think they all add up to less than a single TB
2016-01-06T19:23:05Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:23:49Z jasom: ah just over a TB, I forgot one of the 2.5" drives was a 250GB one
2016-01-06T19:24:48Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:25:08Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:25:08Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:25:31Z pjb: True :-) I've got half a dozen 250 GB disks. But then, 2 1TB and 2 2TB in addition to the 10 TB in the computer.
2016-01-06T19:25:55Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:26:23Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:28:44Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:28:46Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:30:00Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:32:24Z Posterdati: pjb: are you a storage feticist?
2016-01-06T19:32:32Z pjb: Nope.
2016-01-06T19:32:56Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:33:10Z pjb: Storage space has a tendency to always fill very fast.
2016-01-06T19:35:12Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:35:13Z mvilleneuve quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T19:35:14Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:35:38Z mateuszb quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T19:36:14Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T19:37:26Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:42:38Z tuxbrave_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:43:14Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:43:22Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:44:28Z prip joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:44:48Z prip quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T19:45:09Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2016-01-06T19:45:15Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T19:46:21Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:46:42Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:47:09Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:52:09Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-06T19:59:10Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:02:18Z Posterdati: pjb: movies and data for your classifier softwares?
2016-01-06T20:06:15Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:08:01Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T20:09:44Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T20:09:47Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:10:24Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:10:50Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T20:10:58Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:13:54Z ramus joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:14:12Z papachan quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2016-01-06T20:15:17Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-06T20:17:24Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:23:03Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:23:49Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:24:03Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T20:24:55Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T20:26:45Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:26:54Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:30:35Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:30:42Z zacharias quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-06T20:30:45Z zacharias_ is now known as zacharias
2016-01-06T20:32:08Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T20:34:15Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T20:38:24Z mk2 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:39:08Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:42:14Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:44:35Z lisp686 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:47:11Z jfo joined #lisp
2016-01-06T20:48:10Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-06T20:48:53Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-06T20:50:06Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:04:32Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-06T21:05:05Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-06T21:11:45Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T21:12:45Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:13:01Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T21:13:33Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:17:59Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:18:13Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:18:32Z zacharias quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-06T21:18:43Z Octothorpe joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:18:51Z cell__ is now known as cell
2016-01-06T21:18:51Z cell quit (Changing host)
2016-01-06T21:18:51Z cell joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:22:13Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:26:28Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T21:27:06Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:28:37Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-06T21:39:47Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:40:51Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-06T21:41:35Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T21:41:41Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-06T21:43:29Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-06T21:49:43Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T21:51:29Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T21:52:13Z yrk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T21:53:36Z Octothorpe quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-06T21:54:05Z cabaire quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T21:57:15Z jfo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T21:58:19Z Guest14655 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:01:34Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:02:19Z anti-fre_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:02:44Z blub` joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:03:01Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:03:13Z mk2: I found a website with patches to make Sbcl work on Android by Stas Boukarev from 2014-05-28. Can I download a binary of SBCL for Android?
2016-01-06T22:03:36Z blub quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-06T22:03:50Z blub` is now known as blub
2016-01-06T22:04:33Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:04:35Z CEnnis91 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:04:38Z anti-freeze quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:04:38Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:04:38Z sfa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:04:38Z ecraven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:04:43Z XachX_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:04:55Z ramus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:04:58Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:04:58Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:04:58Z smull quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:04:58Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:05:10Z ramus joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:05:21Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:05:21Z thoto quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:05:37Z XachX quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:05:39Z XachX_ is now known as XachX
2016-01-06T22:05:50Z ecraven joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:06:04Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:06:18Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:06:24Z sfa joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:06:30Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-06T22:06:31Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:06:50Z smull joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:06:53Z clarkema joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:07:05Z lisp686: Anyone with experience in lispbox or can recommend me a better Emac for lisp?
2016-01-06T22:07:12Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:07:25Z thoto joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:09:54Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-06T22:10:14Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:12:04Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:12:25Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:13:44Z je4i: M-x emacs-version RET → GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.5.0, NS apple-appkit-1348.17) of 2015-08-27 on tenten-slave.macports.org
2016-01-06T22:13:46Z rebelshrug joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:13:55Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:14:59Z tos-1 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-06T22:14:59Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:17:29Z yenda joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:17:32Z jasom: lisp686: which OS?
2016-01-06T22:18:07Z lisp686 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:18:15Z prxq quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2016-01-06T22:18:43Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:20:03Z NeverDie_ quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-06T22:22:37Z jasom: For linux, use whatever is in your package manager for emacs; for OS X, use: http://emacsformacosx.com/ ; for windows I would recommend http://www.iqool.de/lispstick.html though it's starting to get old
2016-01-06T22:22:59Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:24:14Z lisp829 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:26:26Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:27:42Z je4i: on windows I use GNU Emacs as well
2016-01-06T22:28:35Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:29:23Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:31:27Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T22:33:53Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:35:51Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-06T22:36:06Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T22:39:14Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:39:51Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:41:42Z jasom: je4i: the question is *which* gnu emacs :)
2016-01-06T22:42:01Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-06T22:42:19Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:42:45Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:44:50Z karswell` joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:45:05Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T22:45:24Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:48:46Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:49:06Z je4i: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsForWindows says the 'official' one is here: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/ntemacs.html
2016-01-06T22:52:20Z je4i quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-06T22:55:35Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-06T22:55:58Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-06T22:59:24Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:01:58Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T23:05:10Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2016-01-06T23:07:51Z erjag joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:08:40Z erjag quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T23:09:32Z varjagg quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-06T23:09:45Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:10:45Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-06T23:10:59Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-06T23:11:29Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:12:49Z kenanb: how should I reference the slots of the class before they are bound, I am trying to add an initialize-instance :before method so I can get the default instance data from the :import argument if it is provided, and let initialize-instance override the arguments provided by the user later
2016-01-06T23:15:04Z kenanb: there is a 'root slot in my project class, and I do (setf (slot-value proj 'root) ...) in my initialize-instance :before method, but somehow it is unbound in the instance unless I explicitly bind it in make-instance
2016-01-06T23:19:30Z je4i: clhs:shared-initialize
2016-01-06T23:20:09Z kenanb: anything I setf inside with-slots work like a charm, but I need to say "if :root is non-nil, set root to :root, otherwise set root to something else" now if I put root in with-slots, it will always reference the slot-value of root, which is not yet bound because this is initialize-instance :before method
2016-01-06T23:20:15Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-06T23:20:26Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T23:21:11Z kenanb: so I explicitly say (setf (slot-value proj 'root) ...) outside with-slots in order for "root" to reference the value of the keyword argument, but then the binding doesn't happen
2016-01-06T23:21:20Z attila_lendvai: lisp programmers adding me on linkedin on their government name, while interacting with me online on their pseudonyms -- not good.
2016-01-06T23:22:12Z Posterdati: attila_lendvai: I tried to connect with you :)
2016-01-06T23:22:31Z attila_lendvai: posterdati: recently? :)
2016-01-06T23:22:42Z Posterdati: 1 hour ago
2016-01-06T23:23:03Z attila_lendvai: ok, then it's you! gotcha! :)
2016-01-06T23:23:43Z resttime: kenanb: I'm a bit confused at what behaviour you want, would it work with an :after method?
2016-01-06T23:24:20Z Posterdati: attila_lendvai: I was sure about the problem to match my nick with my real life name
2016-01-06T23:24:24Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2016-01-06T23:25:32Z attila_lendvai: I do use pesudonyms online when I should. but doing public programming stuff doesn't fall into that category. if for nothing else then for building my reputation.
2016-01-06T23:26:36Z attila_lendvai heads bedwards soon
2016-01-06T23:26:53Z kenanb: resttime: I want to be able to get the value of :root argument of make-instance, which is the initarg or 'root slot
2016-01-06T23:27:04Z lisp829 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-06T23:27:09Z PuercoPop: kenanb: wouldn't :initform suffice? Or in :after initialize-instance?
2016-01-06T23:27:54Z kenanb: maybe I should explicitly add :root to the keyword arglist of initialize-instance :before method if I want to use it?
2016-01-06T23:28:10Z kenanb: even though it is defined as an initarg of a slot
2016-01-06T23:29:28Z PuercoPop: btw is this related to coleslaw content types? I feel you closed the PR a bit prematurely
2016-01-06T23:29:32Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-06T23:29:34Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:29:43Z kenanb: PuercoPop: I should bind the slots to some particular values before the main method of initialize-instance overrides some of it
2016-01-06T23:30:58Z kenanb: PuercoPop: so I am working on an initialize-instance :before method, but I believe my problem is with me not understanding some fundamentals here
2016-01-06T23:31:21Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:31:35Z kenanb: PuercoPop: initform will not suffice because the initial values are read from a file
2016-01-06T23:32:07Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:32:28Z kenanb: PuercoPop: nope, this stuff is for a seperate project called fossicker
2016-01-06T23:32:44Z pyx joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:33:00Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-06T23:33:04Z kenanb: PuercoPop: btw thanks for the memo about plugin implementation, it is interesting indeed
2016-01-06T23:34:46Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-06T23:34:56Z resttime: kenanb: Can I see some source?  All I can think of is that what you're doing should be in an :after method instead at the moment.
2016-01-06T23:35:20Z pyx quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-06T23:35:26Z PuercoPop: kenanb: couldn't the initform use a special variable that keeps the values read from a file? CLOS initialization is one of the parts I'm least familiar with but afaik initialize-instance :after where user initialization code should go
2016-01-06T23:35:58Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:36:03Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:36:44Z ajf- quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-06T23:37:52Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T23:37:55Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:38:19Z resttime: What the standard says about initialize-instance is that it is the function when the slots are initialized with the values so trying to access it :before to get the default value won't work it (at least that is my reasoning behind what I believe to be your problem) http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_init_i.htm
2016-01-06T23:38:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-06T23:38:38Z resttime: Err by access it, I mean accessing the slot
2016-01-06T23:39:25Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:39:54Z blub: cant you just do it from the constructor
2016-01-06T23:40:48Z anti-fre_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T23:42:55Z kenanb: resttime: I was not trying to access slot value, I was trying to set it manually using the initarg, and then let shared-initialize do its own thing regardless
2016-01-06T23:44:05Z kenanb: resttime: but I handled it now, turns out I need to explicitly reference the keyword in keyword arglist of initialize-instance even though I am using the initarg defined in class already
2016-01-06T23:44:57Z kenanb: thanks folks :)
2016-01-06T23:45:31Z kenanb: //msg PuercoPop hey
2016-01-06T23:45:35Z resttime: kenanb: Oh okay, that's cool then.
2016-01-06T23:46:12Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-06T23:46:22Z kenanb: I should use /msg instead of //msg right? :D
2016-01-06T23:47:08Z kenanb: emacs autocomplete fail
2016-01-06T23:47:57Z ieure: //msg use whatever you want
2016-01-06T23:51:49Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-06T23:52:30Z justinmcp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-06T23:52:44Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2016-01-06T23:58:44Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:01:43Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T00:04:57Z arnaudga joined #lisp
2016-01-07T00:06:37Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-07T00:06:49Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:11:46Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T00:16:56Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:17:38Z tuxbraveXYZW joined #lisp
2016-01-07T00:17:44Z arnaudga: hello
2016-01-07T00:18:55Z arnaudga: I have a 2 dimension array, is it possible to get the entire vector of one dimension in juste one function ?
2016-01-07T00:19:33Z Bicyclidine: you can make a displaced array.
2016-01-07T00:23:37Z clarkema quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-07T00:23:51Z arnaudga: ok, I will investigate, thanks
2016-01-07T00:25:50Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T00:30:05Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:33:26Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:36:14Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:38:33Z bcoburn_u joined #lisp
2016-01-07T00:39:28Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:40:29Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-07T00:49:42Z Guest14655 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:51:35Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:52:58Z Guest56847 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T00:54:44Z RedEight joined #lisp
2016-01-07T00:57:06Z Guest56847 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:57:52Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-07T00:59:19Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T00:59:40Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T01:00:41Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T01:02:49Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:03:14Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:04:17Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:05:50Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:05:51Z Kazlock quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T01:06:20Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:09:28Z ryan_vw_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:09:31Z tuxbrave_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:11:38Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:12:11Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T01:12:14Z tuxbraveXYZW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T01:17:38Z RedEight quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-07T01:17:40Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:20:15Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T01:23:59Z jlongster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T01:24:19Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T01:24:20Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:24:51Z jlongster quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T01:24:53Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:33:35Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:36:00Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T01:36:38Z kenanb` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:38:05Z kenanb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T01:39:10Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:40:01Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:40:07Z tuxbrave__ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:42:35Z bcoburn_u quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T01:42:42Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:42:44Z tuxbrave_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T01:46:19Z arnaudga left #lisp
2016-01-07T01:49:22Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:49:32Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T01:49:43Z Heranort_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T01:51:52Z Guest56847 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:55:34Z arrsim quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T01:56:05Z sz0 is now known as sz0`
2016-01-07T01:57:22Z arrsim joined #lisp
2016-01-07T01:58:51Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T01:59:10Z \var quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-07T02:01:21Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-07T02:04:22Z wheelsuc` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:05:48Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:06:47Z sz0` is now known as sz0
2016-01-07T02:07:35Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:08:20Z resttime quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T02:08:30Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T02:10:38Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T02:11:25Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T02:14:31Z cpc26 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T02:14:36Z IPmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:15:08Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:18:38Z sz0 is now known as sz0`
2016-01-07T02:19:13Z Heranort_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T02:23:34Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:26:37Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:27:59Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:28:59Z IPmonger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T02:31:23Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T02:31:40Z kenanb` left #lisp
2016-01-07T02:32:51Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:41:35Z yeticry_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:44:33Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T02:46:01Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:46:09Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T02:46:23Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:49:09Z loke: Good morning lisp!
2016-01-07T02:49:23Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-07T02:53:40Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-07T02:54:47Z mk2 quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-07T02:57:36Z rszeno joined #lisp
2016-01-07T03:00:17Z Kazlock: good morning loke
2016-01-07T03:00:26Z loke: Hello
2016-01-07T03:01:02Z Kazlock: Remember when we were working on the string search function?
2016-01-07T03:01:33Z loke: Yes?
2016-01-07T03:01:51Z Kazlock: I came up with a O(n) procedure that works
2016-01-07T03:02:04Z Kazlock: but I haven't implemented it in CL yet
2016-01-07T03:02:52Z loke: Kazlock: Then you should write a paper on it and become famous in CS
2016-01-07T03:03:43Z Kazlock: loke: yeah right. Its slower than boyer-moore, but it's much simpler
2016-01-07T03:04:03Z Kazlock: https://github.com/ebracho/String-Search/blob/master/StringSearch.c
2016-01-07T03:04:26Z loke: Then it's not O(n) :-)
2016-01-07T03:05:00Z Kazlock: its O(c*n), but my c is bigger than boyer-moore's c
2016-01-07T03:05:16Z loke: boyer-moore in O(n+m)
2016-01-07T03:05:26Z loke: oh wait, it isn't
2016-01-07T03:05:32Z loke: it's O(n*m)
2016-01-07T03:05:41Z Kazlock: it is, the m comes form preprocessing the search pattern
2016-01-07T03:05:50Z Kazlock: but the tradeoff is a constant of < 1 on the m
2016-01-07T03:05:58Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-07T03:05:59Z Kazlock: er the n
2016-01-07T03:06:24Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T03:10:23Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-07T03:14:19Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-07T03:14:50Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T03:18:30Z Guest56847 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T03:21:43Z lnostdal_ is now known as lnostdal
2016-01-07T03:24:42Z cyphase joined #lisp
2016-01-07T03:29:19Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-07T03:33:03Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-07T03:34:23Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T03:45:01Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T03:46:26Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-07T03:47:42Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T03:48:14Z cpc26_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T03:50:00Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T03:50:07Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T03:59:45Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-07T04:02:54Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T04:09:13Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-07T04:09:44Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-07T04:11:09Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-07T04:11:22Z d00der joined #lisp
2016-01-07T04:17:03Z wheelsuc` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-07T04:17:11Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T04:18:44Z sz0` is now known as sz0
2016-01-07T04:18:47Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-07T04:24:48Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T04:25:26Z d00der quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-07T04:27:05Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T04:30:00Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-07T04:31:26Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T04:33:20Z sz0 is now known as sz0`
2016-01-07T04:35:46Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-07T04:37:23Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T04:48:27Z psy_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-07T04:56:05Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T04:57:34Z xmad quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T05:05:42Z les quit (Quit: "")
2016-01-07T05:06:03Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:07:42Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:08:50Z cyphase quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T05:10:06Z wooden quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T05:11:11Z xmad joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:12:57Z caoliver joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:17:23Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-07T05:18:11Z cyphase joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:20:37Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:21:08Z misv quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T05:21:53Z misv joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:21:58Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:23:45Z mordocai quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.2+deb1 - http://znc.in)
2016-01-07T05:25:05Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T05:25:31Z caoliver: I have CCL and SBCL lying around.  Is there still a good reason to consider CMUCL?
2016-01-07T05:28:06Z loke: caoliver: No. Not really.
2016-01-07T05:28:13Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-07T05:28:52Z caoliver: Thanks.  I had figured that SBCL had caught up on about everything, and the last time I built CMUCL (late 90s), it was very painful.\
2016-01-07T05:29:30Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:30:30Z caoliver: Sorry for the noob question.
2016-01-07T05:30:47Z loke: I believe building cmucl is still very painful.
2016-01-07T05:30:51Z pillton: Why wouldn't you test your software on CMUCL?
2016-01-07T05:31:04Z loke: SBCL is very easy, and yes, it's better than cmucl by far, and has been for quite some time.
2016-01-07T05:31:46Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-07T05:32:28Z caoliver: I have a small zsh script that installs sbcl + docs with some non-standard tweaks.  It's pretty trivial by comparison.
2016-01-07T05:32:57Z pillton: CMUCL is as easy as SBCL in my opinion.
2016-01-07T05:33:18Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:33:19Z caoliver: Maybe now, but it wasn't when I last built it.
2016-01-07T05:33:32Z pillton: I don't build it. I download the releases.
2016-01-07T05:34:36Z caoliver: I tend to like things put in odd places with my particular eccentricities patched in, so I usually wind up building.
2016-01-07T05:34:46Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T05:34:59Z pillton: All you have to do with CMUCL is uncompress the release.
2016-01-07T05:35:24Z caoliver: If you like the way it's set up that is.
2016-01-07T05:35:39Z pillton: How do you like it set up?
2016-01-07T05:36:02Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:36:19Z caoliver: What I mean is that I seldom to default installs of most things that aren't part of the standard Slackware I run.
2016-01-07T05:36:26Z caoliver: seldom DO
2016-01-07T05:36:43Z pillton: That doesn't answer my question.
2016-01-07T05:37:21Z H4ns: pillton: "it cannot be good if i have not built it myself"
2016-01-07T05:37:33Z Zhivago: s/not //
2016-01-07T05:37:37Z caoliver: You want specifics, but I'm saying in general, I don't like many decisions that get compiled into builds, so I build them myself ON PRINCIPLE.
2016-01-07T05:38:05Z pillton: cooliver: Perhaps I'd like your custom set up. I can't reproduce it based on your statements.
2016-01-07T05:39:50Z caoliver: Here's a quick example: With sbcl, for a long time I specifically patched the doc generator to make separated html files since the large one loaded slowly on my computer of the period, but that meant I had to hack the filename generation/
2016-01-07T05:40:50Z caoliver: Another: things used to be in /site rather than /usr/local.  Even now, things are usually built and installed by a special install users, and never root.  Many installers don't like that.
2016-01-07T05:41:45Z caoliver: It's just a way of saying I've got odd shaped feet, and often need special shoes.  ;)
2016-01-07T05:42:21Z Zhivago: Or, perhaps, that you believe you have odd shaped feed. :)
2016-01-07T05:43:12Z caoliver: Some default shoes fit, some don't.  C'est la vie.
2016-01-07T05:44:25Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:44:48Z caoliver: Bascially the way I do things is aside from some commercial things, I build everything that's not distro or distro patch.
2016-01-07T05:44:53Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:45:00Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-07T05:45:00Z minion: beach, memo from pjb: You'll like this: https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2874238
2016-01-07T05:45:10Z pillton: caoliver: Ok.
2016-01-07T05:45:15Z pillton: G'day beach.
2016-01-07T05:45:23Z H4ns: caoliver: consider cmucl to be commercial.  now you're done.
2016-01-07T05:46:11Z caoliver: I guess I'm trying to ascertain if I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face by simply saying "I don't need it."
2016-01-07T05:46:29Z caoliver: Need being used loosely.
2016-01-07T05:46:34Z H4ns: caoliver: do you test with other commercial implementations?  if not, no need to bother.
2016-01-07T05:46:52Z caoliver: Lisp is more a sketchpad.
2016-01-07T05:47:20Z beach: pjb: Thanks!  Yes, I like it.
2016-01-07T05:47:42Z caoliver: I.e. I've got something that's going to wind up as C++, but I'm coming to grips with the problem, so I want to make a little "lab" is lisp to quickly try things out.
2016-01-07T05:47:59Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T05:48:02Z caoliver: s/is lisp/in lisp/
2016-01-07T05:48:27Z H4ns: caoliver: what makes you consider implementations that you don't use if you're doing things just for yourself?
2016-01-07T05:49:09Z caoliver: There might be some nifty extension that might be useful to me.
2016-01-07T05:49:14Z Zhivago: There's an interesting disorder where people believe that they have died.
2016-01-07T05:49:25Z caoliver: I haven't?
2016-01-07T05:50:28Z H4ns: caoliver: if you need long floats, cmucl has you covered
2016-01-07T05:51:02Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:51:04Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:51:40Z caoliver: I think maxima is the only place I might see high precision floats, and it handles those already/
2016-01-07T05:52:55Z caoliver: I just had run across some noise suggesting that threads are more mature on CMUCL, but the post was a good while back, and I'm not sure it's still true.
2016-01-07T05:54:20Z H4ns: caoliver: not true.  cmucl does not even have threads.  it has cooperative multitasking.
2016-01-07T05:54:43Z caoliver: Again, thanks for the info.
2016-01-07T05:55:28Z caoliver: I'm just trying to cure my ignorance.
2016-01-07T05:56:25Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-07T05:58:43Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-07T05:59:55Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T06:00:07Z sz0` is now known as sz0
2016-01-07T06:00:41Z sz0 is now known as sz0`
2016-01-07T06:03:35Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T06:06:18Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:07:59Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T06:14:00Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:14:28Z mateuszb quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-07T06:20:59Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T06:21:42Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:23:28Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T06:26:40Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:26:49Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T06:27:53Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:29:19Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T06:29:19Z tcr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T06:29:58Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:32:12Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:32:14Z kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:32:42Z mk2 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:34:19Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T06:36:57Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:36:59Z Heranort quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T06:38:55Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:42:05Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T06:42:21Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:43:19Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:44:00Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T06:44:01Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:46:17Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T06:46:59Z akkad: green threads
2016-01-07T06:49:04Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T06:52:15Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T06:52:25Z blub quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T06:53:43Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:54:03Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-07T06:54:08Z blub joined #lisp
2016-01-07T06:56:06Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T06:58:29Z loke joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:03:57Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:06:50Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:07:47Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:08:26Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T07:10:47Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T07:11:04Z kami joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:11:48Z pers joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:12:19Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:12:27Z pers quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T07:12:36Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T07:13:09Z Denommus quit (Quit: going to sleep)
2016-01-07T07:14:39Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:19:58Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:20:44Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T07:23:21Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:23:31Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:27:47Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T07:31:52Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:32:50Z mk2 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T07:35:40Z mk2 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:36:11Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:37:14Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T07:38:00Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:39:42Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T07:46:24Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:47:07Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T07:48:09Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:50:40Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:55:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T07:56:34Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T07:57:06Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-07T07:58:45Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-07T07:59:13Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-07T08:00:47Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:01:32Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-07T08:01:54Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:05:18Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:07:04Z caoliver left #lisp
2016-01-07T08:07:09Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:08:36Z KKKTRIPLEK joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:08:40Z KKKTRIPLEK: the problem with niggers is that they expect handouts for something white people and niggers have no involvement in
2016-01-07T08:08:44Z KKKTRIPLEK: white people haven't owned niggers for a very long time
2016-01-07T08:08:53Z KKKTRIPLEK: niggers haven't been slaves nor useful for a very long time
2016-01-07T08:08:57Z KKKTRIPLEK: i'm not trolling just stating the obvious
2016-01-07T08:09:19Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T08:09:52Z flip214: H4ns: ^^ thanks a lot.
2016-01-07T08:13:12Z resttime quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-07T08:13:46Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:14:02Z rebelshrug quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T08:15:38Z mk2 quit (Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org)
2016-01-07T08:16:43Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:17:46Z cpc26_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T08:19:35Z KKKTRIPLEK quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-07T08:19:40Z H4ns: flip214: hu?
2016-01-07T08:24:24Z flip214: H4ns: the troll is already gone again. thank you, anyway!
2016-01-07T08:25:15Z loke: Who was it that maintained closure-html?
2016-01-07T08:27:41Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:29:56Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:30:27Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T08:31:23Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T08:33:23Z H4ns: flip214: i'm not involved in troll removal in this channel, but i'm thankful that we have people who tastefully fill that role.
2016-01-07T08:34:13Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:34:35Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:34:55Z flip214: okay, will ask felix next - seems to be NL, so european timezone. thank you!
2016-01-07T08:37:13Z ChanServ has set mode +o p_l
2016-01-07T08:37:21Z p_l has set mode +b *!*@*206.190.138.20
2016-01-07T08:37:35Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-07T08:37:57Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:43:10Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:44:37Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:45:12Z TMM quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T08:46:46Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:48:30Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T08:48:53Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T08:49:18Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T08:50:31Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:55:26Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T08:57:10Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-07T08:59:46Z kazlock quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T09:02:25Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T09:05:09Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-07T09:06:50Z cpc26_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T09:07:23Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T09:08:30Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T09:20:36Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T09:21:26Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-07T09:25:31Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-07T09:27:32Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-07T09:29:29Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-07T09:31:44Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T09:35:08Z mateuszb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T09:35:17Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-07T09:35:37Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-07T09:37:40Z AwchinBruh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T09:38:37Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-07T09:46:48Z je4i quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-07T09:46:49Z tuxbrave__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T09:52:11Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-07T09:57:01Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T09:57:33Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:01:04Z vaitel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T10:01:18Z vaitel joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:04:32Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:09:59Z sg|polyneikes joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:11:08Z sg|polyneikes quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-07T10:11:17Z AwchinBruh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:17:11Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:19:32Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T10:19:44Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-07T10:20:22Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T10:27:06Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T10:28:35Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T10:30:44Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:31:56Z AwchinBruh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T10:38:44Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T10:40:50Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T10:41:04Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:41:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:41:10Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-07T10:41:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:41:19Z flip214: can anybody tell me how to change hunchentoot's socket stream buffers to a bigger size?
2016-01-07T10:43:41Z AwchinBruh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:45:29Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T10:45:37Z loke: flip214: which buffers are those?
2016-01-07T10:46:01Z iddqd joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:48:16Z flip214: loke: hunchentoot::*hunchentoot-stream* is reported to be a sb-impl::fd-stream; I found "o-buf" in there...
2016-01-07T10:48:33Z flip214: perhaps I can resize that, but that sounds seriously non-compatible.
2016-01-07T10:49:06Z loke: Hunchentoot uses usocket, and as far as I can tell hunchentoot simply gets the stream from it
2016-01-07T10:49:15Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T10:49:27Z loke: it calls usocket:usocket-accept and then that's the stream it's using
2016-01-07T10:50:36Z flip214: ah yes, that's using sb-bsd-sockets:socket-make-stream in the background
2016-01-07T10:50:45Z loke: Yes
2016-01-07T10:50:57Z loke: and it has a keyword, :buffering :full
2016-01-07T10:51:23Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T10:51:26Z flip214: but can't set the buffer size....
2016-01-07T10:51:41Z flip214: the default 4K is too small - it makes too many syscalls.
2016-01-07T10:53:31Z splittist: flip214: and your network is so fast this is a problem?
2016-01-07T10:53:56Z flip214: splittist: 4K in a write syscall is a problem, yes.
2016-01-07T10:54:09Z flip214: perhaps my CPUs are just too slow?
2016-01-07T10:54:15Z loke: flip214: I'm looking at fd-stream.lisp and I can't see where the 4k comes from
2016-01-07T10:55:45Z loke: Oh wait. Now I see
2016-01-07T10:56:41Z loke: Interesting. This is a system-wide setting. +bytes-per-buffer+ in fd-stream.lisp
2016-01-07T10:56:50Z flip214: ouch ;)
2016-01-07T10:57:39Z flip214: and even if it was configurable, the logic around get-buffer would need changing.
2016-01-07T10:57:55Z loke: And while alloc-buffer can take a buffer-size, it actually caches the buffers in a global list, *available-buffers*. It does not seem to be prepared to have multiple sizes in that list.
2016-01-07T10:58:40Z loke: I guess you could change that constant and rebuild SBCL?
2016-01-07T10:58:55Z loke: If you see a performance improvement after that, you should bring it up to the developers.
2016-01-07T10:59:22Z loke: This is probably code that's been around since cmucl
2016-01-07T11:01:25Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:02:02Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:03:21Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:04:13Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:08:02Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:08:42Z EvW quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T11:08:55Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T11:10:52Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:20:35Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:23:32Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:29:16Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-07T11:30:29Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:31:35Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T11:33:11Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T11:34:56Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:35:24Z nowhere_man: I'm wondering why CL has get-setf-expansion return code instead of a lambda
2016-01-07T11:37:32Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T11:37:55Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T11:39:38Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T11:42:27Z Tristam joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:42:27Z Tristam quit (Changing host)
2016-01-07T11:42:28Z Tristam joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:43:28Z jackdaniel: nowhere_man: it returns 5 values which build a setf expansion
2016-01-07T11:43:34Z Trystam joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:43:35Z jackdaniel: spec setf expansions
2016-01-07T11:43:47Z jackdaniel: hm, http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/05_aab.htm
2016-01-07T11:43:56Z Tristam quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-07T11:44:04Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2016-01-07T11:46:21Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:49:47Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:51:33Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T11:55:01Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T12:00:31Z schoppenhauer quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T12:03:43Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T12:04:33Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:06:22Z nowhere_man: jackdaniel: I know
2016-01-07T12:06:51Z nowhere_man: my question is, why did CL went with this design instead of a function that return a lambda to call with the values to store instead
2016-01-07T12:07:26Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T12:09:20Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T12:09:30Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:12:27Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:12:36Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:14:14Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-07T12:15:26Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:16:07Z jackdaniel: maybe because setf works also on places, which functions doesn't?
2016-01-07T12:17:08Z jackdaniel: if you want a code which setf expands to you may use macroexpand
2016-01-07T12:17:22Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:17:47Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:17:52Z jackdaniel: s/which/while/
2016-01-07T12:18:00Z jackdaniel: ie (setf (values a b c) (values 1 2 3))
2016-01-07T12:18:26Z Posterdati: hi
2016-01-07T12:18:31Z jackdaniel: o/
2016-01-07T12:18:37Z Posterdati: is there any cl-opencv user here?
2016-01-07T12:18:37Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:22:49Z Posterdati: I've got a problem with cl-opencv, when exit from with-named-window the window stays opened
2016-01-07T12:26:31Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T12:28:05Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:29:46Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T12:29:55Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:33:10Z splittist: Are there any good examples of extensive parenscript usage?
2016-01-07T12:35:55Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:40:11Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T12:41:45Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:42:35Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:45:05Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T12:46:41Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T12:47:50Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-07T12:49:19Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:03:47Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:04:01Z lurker joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:04:01Z yenda joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:04:33Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:05:52Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:05:59Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:06:23Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-07T13:06:23Z sweater is now known as Guest48062
2016-01-07T13:07:26Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:09:35Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:09:37Z lurker: Hie, what is the best to use between accumulator recursive fct and augmentation recursive fct? Or Does it depends on the situation?
2016-01-07T13:10:06Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:16:52Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:17:25Z arpunk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T13:17:39Z H4ns quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T13:17:50Z arpunk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:17:54Z dsp- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T13:18:02Z dsp- joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:18:23Z PuercoPop quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:18:41Z reb`` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:18:50Z reb` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T13:18:51Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:19:26Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:21:53Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:22:25Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:23:29Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:24:17Z josteink quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:26:27Z josteink joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:27:53Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:29:24Z knobo joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:29:44Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:30:11Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:36:19Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:36:50Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:38:59Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:40:55Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:41:04Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:43:14Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:45:21Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:45:36Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:46:02Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:46:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:47:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:48:16Z yenda quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T13:48:18Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:50:03Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:55:02Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T13:55:57Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-07T13:58:30Z nyef quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T13:59:56Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:02:42Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:02:54Z je4i` quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-07T14:03:25Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:03:42Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:04:08Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:06:55Z phoe_krk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:07:06Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:08:18Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:08:31Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T14:08:47Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:11:32Z sshirokov quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:11:35Z phoe_krk_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:12:41Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:12:58Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:13:47Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:13:48Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:14:53Z sshirokov joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:15:33Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:16:13Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:19:48Z phoe_krk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T14:19:49Z phoe_krk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:20:35Z zbigniew quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:21:43Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:23:38Z ajf- quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-07T14:23:51Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:23:56Z iddqd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-07T14:24:15Z phoe_krk_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:26:46Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:27:07Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:27:55Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:28:55Z clop: can anyone successfully clone the cmucl git repo?  when I try the links at http://www.cons.org/cmucl/download.html I just get errors that the repository is not found
2016-01-07T14:29:15Z clop: don't know if it's a problem on my end or theirs
2016-01-07T14:30:17Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:30:49Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:31:29Z sulky quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:31:48Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:32:23Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T14:32:30Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2016-01-07T14:32:41Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:33:59Z sulky joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:34:10Z edgar-rft: clop: common-lisp.net has switched to gitlab: <https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/groups/cmucl>
2016-01-07T14:34:25Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:34:48Z clop: edgar-rft, thanks!
2016-01-07T14:35:51Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:36:01Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:36:20Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-07T14:37:24Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:38:06Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:38:23Z duggiefr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:38:36Z duggiefresh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T14:40:47Z tumdum quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:41:26Z finnrobi quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:42:16Z finnrobi joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:42:28Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T14:42:36Z tumdum joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:48:14Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:49:45Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:49:47Z eschulte: in general, for a function which should only be called on a particular type, what's the suggested best practice?  to use a defmethod, or assert type-of at the top of the function?
2016-01-07T14:51:14Z Octothorpe joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:52:54Z jackdaniel: eschulte: method is fine, or (check-type …)
2016-01-07T14:53:02Z jackdaniel: at the start of the function
2016-01-07T14:53:32Z eschulte: thanks
2016-01-07T14:53:32Z cabaire quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:53:36Z eschulte: wasn't aware of check-type
2016-01-07T14:53:41Z jackdaniel: :)
2016-01-07T14:54:51Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:55:03Z je4i`` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:55:07Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:56:12Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:56:14Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-07T14:57:44Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:58:05Z je4i` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T14:58:59Z Octothorpe quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T15:00:12Z ggole_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T15:00:29Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T15:01:04Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:01:04Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-07T15:01:04Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:01:19Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:08:18Z Octothorpe joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:08:54Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T15:10:02Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:11:24Z cabaire quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T15:16:07Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: thanks for the fix! (seems like it was simpler than I feared)
2016-01-07T15:17:54Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:22:20Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-07T15:22:42Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:22:58Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:23:10Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:23:40Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:24:37Z cadadar1 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:24:51Z cadadar quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T15:29:02Z human_nature joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:29:06Z human_nature: well
2016-01-07T15:29:23Z human_nature: I have to say that at work there is a lot of activity fixing messes we ourselves create
2016-01-07T15:29:28Z human_nature: disks runnig outa of spce
2016-01-07T15:30:45Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-07T15:30:51Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:32:05Z je4i`` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-07T15:32:27Z flip214: human_nature: buy some more.
2016-01-07T15:32:44Z sz0` is now known as sz0
2016-01-07T15:33:08Z human_nature: lol
2016-01-07T15:33:14Z human_nature: I want to USE less DISK
2016-01-07T15:33:30Z human_nature: 10k is 10,000 lines of code
2016-01-07T15:33:32Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T15:34:08Z human_nature: I love the idea of different program for different tasks, and think lots of conditinal are spagetti code
2016-01-07T15:34:20Z human_nature: boss is opposite, he wants 1 code base with tons conditional
2016-01-07T15:34:20Z human_nature: lol
2016-01-07T15:34:30Z human_nature: says mutiple programs doing multiple things is spagetti
2016-01-07T15:34:31Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: You're welcome. It was simple. I figured it would be, but the time involved is searching for the simple fix.
2016-01-07T15:34:34Z human_nature: i am like divide up takss
2016-01-07T15:34:37Z human_nature: specialize
2016-01-07T15:34:41Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T15:34:45Z human_nature: he wants monopilthic and cases
2016-01-07T15:35:09Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T15:36:35Z zwdr: I really like ML-style match
2016-01-07T15:36:53Z zwdr: but it can lead to switch-syndrome as well
2016-01-07T15:37:59Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T15:38:03Z human_nature: I prefer multiple short specialized programs
2016-01-07T15:38:08Z human_nature: to one monolithic spagetti
2016-01-07T15:38:17Z cadadar1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-07T15:38:20Z human_nature: hek I prefer shell to ansible, and everyone thinks im insane
2016-01-07T15:38:37Z human_nature: I hate my job
2016-01-07T15:38:43Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: It makes that translate-objects-ret a bit cleaner too; it just calls translate-objects now with two possible forms of call-form.
2016-01-07T15:39:12Z human_nature: it seems lisp has 100s of things that others have already figured out to make life easier
2016-01-07T15:39:23Z human_nature: it is just a challenge to read about them all and use them
2016-01-07T15:39:32Z human_nature: like tools lyng in the grass
2016-01-07T15:39:47Z zwdr: I think Lisp really lends itself to a lot of small modules
2016-01-07T15:39:57Z zwdr: so I agree with you
2016-01-07T15:40:34Z zwdr: but hell I make money writing PHP
2016-01-07T15:40:37Z human_nature: Just amazing I was going to accuse the current recipie of spagetti code and boss sees my solution as spagetti code
2016-01-07T15:40:45Z human_nature: lol
2016-01-07T15:40:54Z human_nature: do you have to do agile n scrume n stuff?
2016-01-07T15:41:00Z z0d: zwdr: don't air your dirty laundry
2016-01-07T15:41:09Z human_nature: it seems they try and kill all programming fun n creativity
2016-01-07T15:41:10Z zwdr: its the difference between building a monolith and a dsl
2016-01-07T15:41:28Z zwdr: z0d: yea this will follow me right
2016-01-07T15:41:29Z zwdr: shit
2016-01-07T15:41:35Z human_nature: it is never a bad idea to buy hardware bewcause it works 24/7 unlike humans
2016-01-07T15:41:59Z human_nature: I am spending hours fixing vmware and 6T usb dive is $200
2016-01-07T15:42:11Z zwdr: human_nature: PHP kills enough fun already, its horrible. But enough of that
2016-01-07T15:42:15Z zwdr: its offtopic
2016-01-07T15:43:39Z human_nature: is darcs2 as good as git?
2016-01-07T15:43:49Z human_nature: is there any source code manager in lisp?
2016-01-07T15:44:10Z z0d: darcs is simpler than git IMO
2016-01-07T15:44:18Z z0d: simpler to use, that is
2016-01-07T15:45:00Z z0d: human_nature: not to my knowledge, but we already have loads, so why have another?
2016-01-07T15:45:41Z attila_lendvai: luis: I think the cffi generator stuff is ready for consideration: https://github.com/cffi/cffi/pull/84
2016-01-07T15:47:15Z human_nature: darcs seems cool
2016-01-07T15:47:16Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T15:47:28Z reb`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T15:47:38Z human_nature: have you tried developing with a few team members over the net using darcs?
2016-01-07T15:47:40Z human_nature: work well?
2016-01-07T15:48:01Z z0d: it does
2016-01-07T15:49:02Z human_nature: so ok say I take a part of a program and improve it (I am not a pro developer)  how do you get my copy without overwritring your own? and test it? and then what happens when it looks good and I want to merge it with my stuff?
2016-01-07T15:49:21Z human_nature: or you want to merge with your stuff rather
2016-01-07T15:49:36Z z0d: you should ask this in #darcs
2016-01-07T15:49:38Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:49:41Z attila_lendvai: that's both offtopic here and a google search away
2016-01-07T15:49:42Z human_nature: ok
2016-01-07T15:49:44Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: That's a big changeset.
2016-01-07T15:51:54Z ramus quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T15:52:23Z ramus joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:53:15Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: that depends what you set as a reference point... :) I'm quite happy with how you can now start using a new C lib from lisp within an hour's work.
2016-01-07T15:54:01Z human_nature: when I see these concurrency libraries on cliki
2016-01-07T15:54:21Z human_nature: I wonder, how hard is it to write a program that uses one, to make my program be very fast?
2016-01-07T15:54:26Z mordocai: cl-wrap is also very nice
2016-01-07T15:54:30Z mordocai: cl-autowrap*
2016-01-07T15:54:30Z attila_lendvai: human_nature: fewer enters helps readability on the other side
2016-01-07T15:54:54Z mordocai: human_nature: Depends on what your program is bottle necked on
2016-01-07T15:55:10Z human_nature: Do people use them to write fasts non sql data base? (relly? I find more enters way nice, but you are not alone in telling me to make fewer)
2016-01-07T15:55:19Z attila_lendvai: mordocai: yes, I started out with that, and I used some code even. but I don't want the extra stuff, I want simple cffi
2016-01-07T15:55:35Z mordocai likes the extra stuff
2016-01-07T15:55:47Z reb` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T15:56:43Z mordocai: human_nature: If you want a database use one that already exists. Making your own database is pretty much always a bad idea.
2016-01-07T15:58:10Z attila_lendvai: human_nature: also, consider speed once it works and you have profiled it. in my experience if you start out with speed in mind, then you'll get less done that will work less accurate and it'll even be slower at the end of the day because you allocate you mind to the wrong things at the wrong phase
2016-01-07T16:00:07Z zwdr: I also believe it's rare to have a use case that justifies writing a DBMS
2016-01-07T16:00:44Z zwdr: well, there's much to learn by doing it I guess?
2016-01-07T16:01:06Z H4ns joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:01:20Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:01:37Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:01:37Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-07T16:01:44Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-07T16:02:06Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:02:30Z mordocai: zwdr: human_nature: Yeah you can learn a lot. Just don't use it in production, even for personal stuff IMO.
2016-01-07T16:03:32Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:03:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:04:20Z human_nature: so i should just use php and postgresql?
2016-01-07T16:04:34Z mordocai: human_nature: or common lisp and postgresql :)
2016-01-07T16:04:39Z mordocai: or X and postgresql
2016-01-07T16:04:42Z mordocai loves postgresql
2016-01-07T16:04:58Z zwdr: yea, everything but PHP
2016-01-07T16:07:31Z sfa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:07:38Z sfa joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:07:51Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-07T16:08:10Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:10:24Z hlavaty joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:11:06Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:15:49Z nyef joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:20:03Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-07T16:21:27Z pbgc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T16:25:42Z synchromesh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T16:25:59Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:26:17Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:27:02Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:31:24Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:31:33Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-07T16:32:27Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:33:23Z splittist: clhs labels
2016-01-07T16:33:23Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm
2016-01-07T16:33:34Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-07T16:34:28Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:36:30Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:37:51Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:38:44Z duggiefr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T16:39:09Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:39:09Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:39:11Z luis: attila_lendvai: goddamn. (cl-)travis has been particularly flaky lately
2016-01-07T16:40:39Z human_nature: why is work such hell?
2016-01-07T16:40:53Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:43:29Z jdz: because people are ungrateful pricks and always want something they do not have
2016-01-07T16:43:48Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:44:56Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:45:19Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-07T16:46:16Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T16:46:50Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:48:42Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:48:52Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-07T16:49:35Z caoliver joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:50:30Z moore33: beach: Hey there.
2016-01-07T16:50:58Z beach: moore33: I take it you are back in a more civilized region now?
2016-01-07T16:51:16Z switchp0rt quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:51:53Z splittist: Yo beach! I'm having fun reproducing some of Second Climacs in a vi-ish terminal-based app. Perhaps I can even plug in your analyzers (:
2016-01-07T16:52:02Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T16:52:05Z beach: Nice!
2016-01-07T16:53:00Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:53:12Z beach: Cluffer update: It passes all the tests and I have nearly 100% code coverage.  I'll be working on the remaining few percent in the next few days.  Documentation is near complete.  Here is how the PDF looks: http://metamodular.com/cluffer.pdf
2016-01-07T16:53:30Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-07T16:53:30Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:53:44Z moore33: beach: Yes, though the weather was better in the Drôme...
2016-01-07T16:53:47Z beach: splittist: Are you using something like cl-curses or whatever that library might be called?
2016-01-07T16:53:58Z caoliver left #lisp
2016-01-07T16:54:11Z splittist: beach: yes - croatoan.
2016-01-07T16:54:26Z splittist: beach: and Cluffer, of course.
2016-01-07T16:54:35Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:54:35Z beach: Oh, really?
2016-01-07T16:54:49Z beach: So you are not using the code in Second Climacs?
2016-01-07T16:55:53Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:56:25Z beach: Or maybe I already plugged Cluffer into Second Climacs?
2016-01-07T16:56:31Z beach can't remember.
2016-01-07T16:56:53Z splittist: I think you have, somewhat. I started with something I had written (years ago...) using flexichains, and adapted it to Cluffer. Then I wanted to see what Second Climacs had that I could use directly.
2016-01-07T16:57:02Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T16:57:52Z beach: splittist: OK.  Expect some changes to the code in Second Climacs soon.  I will make sure it uses Cluffer correctly, and I am working on a CLIM II GUI.
2016-01-07T16:58:03Z oGMo: anyone know of a pointer/memory/foreign compare-and-swap for CL?
2016-01-07T16:59:55Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:00:59Z splittist: beach: OK. I think I'll go my own way on command processing anyway, but if I can adapt sufficiently to the 2C view/show/buffer structure I might be able to use the syntax analyzers. (Not that I'll have a great variety of shades and fonts to decorate with, but...)
2016-01-07T17:02:06Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T17:02:07Z beach: splittist: Yes, that would be great.  We should keep in touch with respect to those analyzers.
2016-01-07T17:03:03Z trebor_home joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:04:17Z splittist: beach: Indeed.
2016-01-07T17:05:54Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:06:14Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-07T17:06:38Z beach: splittist: Are you using the update protocol of Cluffer?
2016-01-07T17:07:04Z beach: I guess not, since I only just fixed the last (I hope) problems today.
2016-01-07T17:08:14Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:08:35Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:08:53Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:10:48Z splittist: beach: I am, actually. Seemed to work with some casual testing... I guess I'd better pull the updated version.
2016-01-07T17:11:08Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:11:12Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T17:11:16Z beach: Yes, that would be a good idea.
2016-01-07T17:11:22Z schoppenhauer quit (Quit: Adé)
2016-01-07T17:11:43Z Octothorpe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T17:13:02Z attila_lendvai: luis: ENUM.SIZE.ERROR actually fails on ccl, I'm looking into it now
2016-01-07T17:13:32Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T17:13:51Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T17:14:13Z beach: splittist: This is a great surprise.  I had expected that nobody would care about Cluffer, except for me, that is.
2016-01-07T17:14:55Z splittist: beach: not a bad surprise, I hope.
2016-01-07T17:15:06Z beach: Right.  A good one.
2016-01-07T17:19:55Z beach: I guess if your application is VI-ish, you are not interested in the Basic-Emacs layer that comes with Second Climacs.
2016-01-07T17:22:11Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:22:18Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:22:26Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:22:39Z splittist: beach: Not really, no.
2016-01-07T17:22:47Z moore33: When are we going to have Multiple Climacs?
2016-01-07T17:23:45Z beach doesn't know.
2016-01-07T17:24:20Z beach: Anyway, time to go fix dinner.
2016-01-07T17:24:22Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-07T17:24:36Z splittist: seems a fine idea.
2016-01-07T17:24:40Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:28:28Z moore33: Does trivial-garbage have a portable without-gc, or do I need to look elsewhere for that?
2016-01-07T17:29:17Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:31:08Z fe[nl]ix: without-gc is a bad idea in general and it's definitely not portable
2016-01-07T17:33:17Z moore33: @fe[nl]ix: Well, in a finalizer I want to put an object on a queue for later action. I'm not sure how to protect the queue and prevent deadlock without some kind of without-gc mechanism.
2016-01-07T17:35:50Z fe[nl]ix: an object, but not the one being collected, right ?
2016-01-07T17:36:05Z warweasle: If a lisp file has a current fasl, will lisp load that instead?
2016-01-07T17:36:36Z moore33: @fe[nl]ix: Right; basically, a more primitive representation of the foreign resource wrapped by the object.
2016-01-07T17:37:45Z yuankode quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.50.1))
2016-01-07T17:38:20Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T17:38:41Z fe[nl]ix: moore33: how about you focus on SBCL first and use sb-ext:atomic-push ?
2016-01-07T17:38:54Z fe[nl]ix: once you have it working you can generalize it
2016-01-07T17:40:20Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:40:22Z moore33: @fe[nl]ix: Generalize atomic-push? :) Actually, I probably care only about sbcl and ccl, but others might feel differently.
2016-01-07T17:40:41Z fe[nl]ix: as in using a portable library
2016-01-07T17:40:53Z fe[nl]ix: bordeaux-threads doesn't have atomics
2016-01-07T17:40:54Z fe[nl]ix: yet
2016-01-07T17:40:59Z moore33: yeah
2016-01-07T17:41:34Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:43:40Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-07T17:44:07Z trebor_home quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T17:44:25Z human_nature quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-07T17:47:21Z luis started working on that but got distracted, as usual
2016-01-07T17:48:13Z moore33: luis: Very cool, but don't worry; the lack of atomics is certainly not blocking for me yet :)
2016-01-07T17:50:17Z moore33: bbl
2016-01-07T17:50:23Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-07T17:55:27Z trebor_home joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:01:51Z ramky quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T18:04:18Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:08:21Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:09:11Z Guest48062 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:11:27Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:11:37Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:12:01Z emma joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:12:02Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:13:30Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:13:33Z theverbg joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:13:55Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:14:06Z theverbg left #lisp
2016-01-07T18:14:41Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:17:03Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:19:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:22:21Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:23:11Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:23:13Z LiamH: luis: I've patched libffi to make it threadsafe, using Bordeaux threads. It is conditionalized so that BT is not needed, but will be used if loaded prior to cffi-libffi.
2016-01-07T18:23:45Z LiamH: luis: How do you handle an optional system dependency of this type?
2016-01-07T18:24:36Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T18:28:49Z luis: I don't handle it very well.
2016-01-07T18:29:43Z luis: Maybe it should always depend on bordeaux threads, unless there's another way of making it thread-safe.
2016-01-07T18:29:50Z luis: What's thread-unsafe about it?
2016-01-07T18:30:10Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:30:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:31:00Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:31:36Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:31:48Z ajf- quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-07T18:32:33Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:33:58Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T18:34:15Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:34:17Z ajf- quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-07T18:35:35Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:35:43Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:35:44Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:37:31Z badkins_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:38:07Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:38:40Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:41:19Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:45:02Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T18:45:49Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:45:53Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:46:36Z akkad: clhs get-hostname-by-ip
2016-01-07T18:46:36Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for get-hostname-by-ip.
2016-01-07T18:46:40Z LiamH:  luis: There's a hash table *cif-table* which stores function definitions.
2016-01-07T18:46:59Z LiamH: luis: it's only an issue for compilation.
2016-01-07T18:47:09Z LiamH: luis:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/1474211
2016-01-07T18:47:26Z LiamH: and I don't think it's that big a deal, because it is only for compilation
2016-01-07T18:48:17Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:48:27Z LiamH: I don't like the idea of making  a hard dependency on BT, because that cffi-libffi will needlessly fail for those who don't want and can't use threads.
2016-01-07T18:48:54Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:49:40Z fe[nl]ix: optional deps don't work with ASDF and are a bad idea anyway
2016-01-07T18:50:26Z LiamH: so I will make no dependency, it will use BT if it's there, if not, code will expand as it does now
2016-01-07T18:51:54Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T18:53:08Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:53:27Z aeth quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T18:55:11Z Yanez: clhs get-internal-run-time
2016-01-07T18:55:11Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_get__1.htm
2016-01-07T18:55:16Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:57:04Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:57:43Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-07T18:59:32Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:04:17Z dkcl joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:05:17Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T19:08:04Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:10:23Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T19:13:47Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:20:27Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:25:57Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T19:27:32Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:28:21Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:29:19Z dog_chair joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:29:25Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:29:35Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:29:47Z myrkraverk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:30:05Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:30:26Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T19:30:45Z Nikotiin` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:31:43Z nydel quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T19:31:43Z vert2 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T19:31:53Z jackc-_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:32:01Z dog_chair: why lisp over haskell and smalltalk and erlang and prolog?
2016-01-07T19:32:34Z dlowe: why not?
2016-01-07T19:32:40Z Tordek quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T19:32:51Z H4ns: we like our parentheses
2016-01-07T19:33:15Z dlowe: in C++, you can use as many parenthesis as you want and it doesn't even matter :D
2016-01-07T19:33:39Z tessier_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:33:41Z dlowe: (C++ and a lot of other languages)
2016-01-07T19:33:48Z Robdgreat_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:34:09Z mwehner_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:34:16Z jtza8_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:34:16Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:34:20Z daimrod joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:35:10Z myrkraverk_: In C++, you can even use gratuitous { and } too.
2016-01-07T19:35:31Z pootler__ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:35:40Z dlowe: yeah, but people don't love curly braces the way they love parentheses
2016-01-07T19:35:41Z myrkraverk_: main() {{{ printf( "foo" ); }}}
2016-01-07T19:35:46Z tobel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:36:06Z myrkraverk_: Hmm, maybe not.
2016-01-07T19:36:33Z Meow-J_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:36:42Z H4ns: in clojure, comma is white space!!11elf   (defn,,,,,hello[foo,,,],,,(,,,println,,,"hello"foo))
2016-01-07T19:36:58Z myrkraverk_: That's convenient.
2016-01-07T19:36:59Z akkad_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:37:08Z xantoz: for people who can't quit commas?
2016-01-07T19:37:16Z constantinexvi_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:37:19Z Plas joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:37:22Z dlowe: H4ns: are you effing kidding me?
2016-01-07T19:37:25Z dlowe twitches.
2016-01-07T19:37:27Z H4ns: yeah.  that ignited my initial hate for clojure.
2016-01-07T19:37:34Z H4ns: dlowe: no kidding
2016-01-07T19:37:45Z H4ns: but i must admit that the hate has faded
2016-01-07T19:37:48Z AeroNotix_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:37:57Z dan64- joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:38:14Z dlowe: this should be brought up more: http://random-state.net/features-of-common-lisp.html
2016-01-07T19:38:16Z kanru` joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:38:21Z dlowe: minion: features?
2016-01-07T19:38:21Z minion: features: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/features
2016-01-07T19:38:30Z jtza8 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z badkins_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z Guest20174 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z PlasmaStar quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z Xach_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z trinque quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z Xof quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z NaNDude quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z myrkraverk quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z newcup quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z tobel quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z fluter quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z kanru quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z Meow-J quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:54Z pootler_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z constantinexvi quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z mwehner quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z tessier quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z jackc- quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z dan64 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z AeroNotix quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z ieure: I like commas as whitespace in CLJ.
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z dlowe: minion: common lisp features?
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z ieure: Though I rarely use them at all.
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z AeroNotix_ is now known as AeroNotix
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z minion: i'm written in common lisp
2016-01-07T19:38:55Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-07T19:39:03Z tobel_ is now known as tobel
2016-01-07T19:39:03Z ieure: The comma thing may be a wart, but it's so superficial I don't think it matters.
2016-01-07T19:39:26Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:39:26Z Plas is now known as PlasmaStar
2016-01-07T19:39:35Z pootler__ is now known as pootler_
2016-01-07T19:40:05Z badkins_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:40:10Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T19:40:16Z ggole__ quit
2016-01-07T19:40:22Z dlowe: yeah, I'm more aghast at the poor taste rather than any practical offensiveness
2016-01-07T19:40:29Z NaNDude joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:41:19Z wgslayer joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:41:46Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:42:00Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:42:11Z badkins_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T19:42:23Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-07T19:42:48Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:43:19Z gko quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T19:43:21Z Tordek joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:44:21Z gko joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:44:48Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:47:34Z vert2 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:47:44Z nydel joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:48:47Z mwehner_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-07T19:48:50Z foom: what was that feature intended for?
2016-01-07T19:49:04Z H4ns: just plain appeasement
2016-01-07T19:49:08Z foom: Of who?
2016-01-07T19:49:14Z foom: Who wants to use commas as spaces?
2016-01-07T19:49:33Z Meow-J_ is now known as Meow-J
2016-01-07T19:50:02Z foom: Or, can you put the parens in the wrong place too?
2016-01-07T19:50:19Z foom: println("hello", foo)?
2016-01-07T19:50:19Z ieure: They're treated that way so you can use commas for visually separating things in lists/vectors.
2016-01-07T19:50:39Z H4ns: foom: no, parens are significant.  but you can write {:foo 1, :bar 2} in a map literal
2016-01-07T19:50:40Z ieure: Since Clojure doesn't use the alist style ((k1 v1) (k2 v2)), but (k1 v1 k2 v2)
2016-01-07T19:50:49Z ieure: You can optionally do (k1 v1, k2 v2)
2016-01-07T19:50:53Z ieure: Or whatever you want.
2016-01-07T19:51:04Z dlowe: that's plist style, btw :)
2016-01-07T19:51:05Z foom: Right. Or (k1, v1 k2, v2). :)
2016-01-07T19:51:14Z H4ns: {:foo,1 :bar,2}
2016-01-07T19:51:16Z H4ns: i so love it.
2016-01-07T19:51:30Z foom: It's best to mix the styles
2016-01-07T19:51:42Z H4ns: heh
2016-01-07T19:51:53Z foom: (k1, v1 k2 v2, k3 v3)
2016-01-07T19:58:02Z newcup joined #lisp
2016-01-07T19:59:55Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:04:18Z trinque joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:05:31Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T20:06:08Z dogfood joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:06:14Z dogfood is now known as 21WAAP9NU
2016-01-07T20:06:14Z 21WAAP9NU quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-07T20:06:15Z mordocai: Are there any good lisp related mailing lists I should join? I recently got my email filtering improved so i'm looking for more cool stuff to read.
2016-01-07T20:08:41Z mordocai: Also will program lisp for lisp related programming books
2016-01-07T20:08:46Z mordocai: (they're expensive)
2016-01-07T20:10:09Z Nikotiin` is now known as Nikotiini
2016-01-07T20:15:06Z z0d: mordocai: you can read a lot of Lisp books for free on the Web
2016-01-07T20:15:28Z aeth joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:17:19Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T20:17:58Z dkcl joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:20:20Z reb`: mordocai: I also look at the Usenet group comp.lang.lisp
2016-01-07T20:20:25Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-07T20:22:26Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-07T20:22:38Z _sjs_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:23:54Z H4ns: mordocai: the pro@common-lisp.net mailing list is rather low volume, but once or twice a year a nice thread comes up and all the smug lisp wheenies come out of their caves to vent their ridiculous opinions.
2016-01-07T20:24:15Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T20:24:39Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:25:52Z mordocai: z0d: Yeah I was thinking more the new books like common lisp recipes https://www.apress.com/9781484211779
2016-01-07T20:26:10Z mordocai: All the books on my list right now are more than $50 each
2016-01-07T20:26:18Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:26:36Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:27:34Z z0d: even in digital form?
2016-01-07T20:28:34Z mordocai: Yep
2016-01-07T20:28:49Z mordocai: Most textbooky things are nearly as expensive in digital form as physical
2016-01-07T20:30:24Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:31:01Z wgslayer quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T20:31:01Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T20:31:18Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:31:20Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T20:34:25Z karswell` is now known as karswell
2016-01-07T20:35:49Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:36:02Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:37:52Z z0d: mordocai: and even Let Over Lambda is partly free
2016-01-07T20:39:42Z Guest35087 is now known as russell--
2016-01-07T20:39:49Z H4ns: even that!1
2016-01-07T20:40:20Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:41:35Z z0d: even as in advanced topic
2016-01-07T20:42:09Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:43:01Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:43:50Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T20:44:44Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-07T20:49:09Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-07T20:51:35Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-07T20:51:57Z lurker quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-07T20:57:15Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T20:58:32Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T21:00:28Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:01:23Z dog_chair: bitorrent makes many free
2016-01-07T21:01:25Z dog_chair: :
2016-01-07T21:01:27Z dog_chair: :)
2016-01-07T21:02:45Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:02:53Z Xach: luis: on debian 8, with a freshly compiled sbcl, i land in ldb when ql:quickloading perfpiece.
2016-01-07T21:03:00Z Xach: luis: also happens with 1.3.1 download
2016-01-07T21:03:10Z Xach: Control stack exhausted
2016-01-07T21:04:19Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-07T21:05:18Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:05:46Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:06:49Z lurker joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:06:53Z lurker is now known as 7GHABYMZQ
2016-01-07T21:07:19Z 7GHABYMZQ: Hie, I'm on the way to finish practical Common Lisp, what book should I read to complement it? Thx!
2016-01-07T21:07:27Z 7GHABYMZQ: complete*
2016-01-07T21:10:45Z 7GHABYMZQ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-07T21:11:17Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T21:11:19Z knobo joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:11:40Z Th30n_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:15:00Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-07T21:17:03Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:21:02Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:21:38Z meirl joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:22:17Z Denommus quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-07T21:22:19Z meirl: how do you guys deal with public speaking?
2016-01-07T21:22:20Z malbertife_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:22:25Z meirl: My lisp has gotten out of hand
2016-01-07T21:22:34Z meirl: and its embarrassing
2016-01-07T21:24:44Z Yanez: so so funny...
2016-01-07T21:25:43Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T21:25:44Z meirl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T21:25:49Z oleo: meirl: brush you teeth.........
2016-01-07T21:25:55Z oleo: lol
2016-01-07T21:25:59Z oleo: :)
2016-01-07T21:26:44Z malbertife_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-07T21:27:26Z Yanez quit (Quit: Yanez)
2016-01-07T21:28:22Z resttime: I check the CLHS to verify what I say is right ;)
2016-01-07T21:28:36Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-07T21:32:41Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T21:33:41Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-07T21:36:22Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:36:39Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T21:37:31Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T21:39:00Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T21:39:44Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T21:39:53Z yeticry_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T21:40:13Z teoric joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:41:03Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:41:38Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T21:43:03Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:44:37Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T21:47:14Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T21:48:46Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T21:50:15Z defaultxr quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T21:50:22Z Kazlock quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T21:50:22Z constantinexvi_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T21:50:22Z tessier_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T21:50:22Z manuel_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T21:50:22Z H4ns quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T21:50:22Z blub quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T21:50:22Z msb quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-07T21:51:41Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:51:41Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:51:41Z constantinexvi_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:51:41Z tessier_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:51:41Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:51:41Z H4ns joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:51:41Z blub joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:51:41Z msb joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:51:51Z constantinexvi_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-07T21:51:53Z teoric quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-07T21:51:59Z constantinexvi joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:52:11Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T21:52:51Z rvchangue_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:54:39Z resttime quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-07T21:54:41Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-07T21:55:39Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:56:00Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-07T21:56:50Z cabaire quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-07T21:58:01Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:02:14Z HardWall quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-07T22:04:33Z Xof joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:04:40Z sepi joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:04:56Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-07T22:08:31Z jtza8_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T22:09:47Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:09:53Z ajf- quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-07T22:10:45Z Th30n_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-07T22:12:07Z dog_chair is now known as republican_devil
2016-01-07T22:13:10Z n_blownapart joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:13:41Z n_blownapart: hi scheme question here: on line 36 of this paste the little schemer book says "always use 1 for the value of the terminating line... what line on the paste does this refer to? thanks   http://pastie.org/10676851
2016-01-07T22:13:57Z n_blownapart: other channels quiet .. ^^
2016-01-07T22:14:32Z reb`: n_blownapart: This channel is for Common Lisp, so you may not get a response.
2016-01-07T22:14:44Z akkad_: it's all lisp
2016-01-07T22:15:32Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:15:57Z Bicyclidine: you should ask #scheme. if you don't get a response, joining a washing machine channel to try to get an answer doesn't make sense.
2016-01-07T22:16:23Z n_blownapart: ok
2016-01-07T22:17:05Z dwchandler: n_blownapart: generally, that comment refers to the identity for multiplication. Same for 0 and addition.
2016-01-07T22:17:44Z dwchandler: Beyond that, it's an unclear comment to me.
2016-01-07T22:17:45Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:17:55Z dwchandler: English fail
2016-01-07T22:18:15Z msb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T22:18:31Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: SHUT UP SMARTMATCH)
2016-01-07T22:18:40Z n_blownapart: dwchandler: thanks. I was following well, and then read that sentence...what could he (a native English speaker) mean?
2016-01-07T22:18:56Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:19:20Z msb joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:20:11Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T22:20:17Z dwchandler: dunno. "last line" isn't at all clear to me. if you understand the code then don't worry about it :)
2016-01-07T22:20:56Z n_blownapart: pax thanks dwchandler
2016-01-07T22:20:58Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T22:21:18Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:21:18Z republican_devil quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-07T22:22:00Z |3b| finds it unclear also, but i think it means line 14, where the recursion in O* (which uses O+) terminates
2016-01-07T22:22:36Z n_blownapart: |3b|: excellent thanks.
2016-01-07T22:22:59Z |3b|: if you implemented exponentiation using O*, it would use 1 there
2016-01-07T22:24:23Z n_blownapart: |3b|: like any number raised to the 0th power ?
2016-01-07T22:24:47Z n_blownapart: don't quite follow
2016-01-07T22:25:32Z |3b|: sounds right
2016-01-07T22:25:53Z n_blownapart: hmm thanks working on it.
2016-01-07T22:26:34Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:27:07Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:27:23Z Xach quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T22:28:15Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-07T22:37:38Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-07T22:39:40Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T22:41:01Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:41:14Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T22:44:04Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:44:27Z sweater is now known as Guest82164
2016-01-07T22:44:46Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T22:45:00Z k4rtik quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-07T22:46:26Z trebor_home quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T22:48:52Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:48:52Z k4rtik quit (Changing host)
2016-01-07T22:48:52Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:49:30Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:49:42Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:50:18Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-07T22:50:48Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:50:48Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-07T22:50:48Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:51:47Z cadadar quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-07T22:54:22Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:56:03Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T22:56:58Z n_blownapart quit
2016-01-07T22:56:58Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:57:21Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:57:35Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-07T22:58:03Z akkad_ is now known as akkad
2016-01-07T22:58:04Z akkad is now known as akkad`
2016-01-07T22:58:35Z akkad` is now known as akkad
2016-01-07T22:58:37Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T23:01:19Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:01:23Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-07T23:02:40Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:03:05Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T23:04:27Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:06:44Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-07T23:10:02Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-07T23:15:56Z morganfleaman joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:16:18Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:16:44Z scottj joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:19:32Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-07T23:21:46Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:21:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-07T23:21:54Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T23:24:57Z snipholio joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:25:06Z EvW quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T23:25:12Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:27:13Z snipholio quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-07T23:27:19Z morganfleaman quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-07T23:28:02Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T23:29:29Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-07T23:29:33Z Joreji joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:29:44Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:30:38Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:31:32Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-07T23:33:04Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:34:56Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-07T23:36:35Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:39:48Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-07T23:42:17Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:42:52Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:44:43Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-07T23:46:24Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-07T23:57:04Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-07T23:59:19Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:03:38Z drdo quit (Quit: :()
2016-01-08T00:04:17Z Jonsky joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:04:34Z drdo joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:06:29Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:06:29Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T00:07:22Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T00:07:31Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T00:08:07Z ajf- quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-08T00:09:36Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:10:01Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:10:07Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:13:47Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:22:21Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:26:52Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:28:28Z ajf- quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T00:28:54Z anti-freeze quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T00:28:55Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:30:45Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:32:20Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T00:32:53Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T00:33:35Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T00:33:36Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:33:58Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T00:38:42Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:39:53Z daneilibolleli joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:42:26Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:43:28Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T00:46:26Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T00:47:41Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:51:46Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T00:52:02Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T00:53:51Z Jonsky joined #lisp
2016-01-08T00:58:29Z xantoz: is there a library that will let me do XSLT in CL?  it seems like I'm going to need to apply some XSLT server-side (version 1.0 will do)
2016-01-08T00:58:44Z ajf- quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-08T00:58:53Z p_l: xuriella?
2016-01-08T00:59:03Z xantoz: right, should've just googled
2016-01-08T00:59:23Z xantoz: I'll try it, anyway
2016-01-08T00:59:27Z p_l: that said, I'll be happy if someone updates it for 2.0, or makes it a compiler or so
2016-01-08T00:59:39Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:00:05Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:02:11Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:03:58Z _sjs_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:04:59Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:07:44Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2016-01-08T01:11:25Z dogfood joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:15:27Z xantoz: xuriella ignores <xsl:output indent="yes"> ...
2016-01-08T01:15:49Z xantoz: not that it's very important outside debugging, but
2016-01-08T01:16:16Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:16:45Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:19:19Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:20:23Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:23:31Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:24:00Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:30:11Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:32:29Z daneilibolleli left #lisp
2016-01-08T01:33:05Z SAL9000: Is there any naming convention for FFI binding systems, other than CL-FOO?
2016-01-08T01:33:05Z minion: SAL9000, memo from drmeister: I finished implementing the new scraper.  It's in testing.   I'll haven't written any documentation on it but it looks very much like what we talked about.  There are lots of examples in the code.   grep for DEFUN or DEFMETHOD.  All of the markup macros are in clasp/include/clasp/core/scrape.h
2016-01-08T01:33:05Z minion: SAL9000, memo from drmeister: The startup code used to involve lots of hand written calls to functions like af_def and class_<Foo_O>().def(...) and enum_<...>().value(...) to define functions, classes, methods and enums.  They have all been taken out of the startup code and now the scraper extracts tags for them and builds the code to expose these things
2016-01-08T01:33:05Z minion: SAL9000, memo from drmeister: Thank you for the UTF-8 fix.
2016-01-08T01:35:47Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:36:06Z gensym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:38:37Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-08T01:38:47Z myrkraverk_ is now known as myrkraverk
2016-01-08T01:38:55Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:39:12Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:40:03Z larme quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:40:32Z gensym joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:41:49Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-08T01:43:07Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:43:15Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:43:17Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T01:43:36Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:49:20Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:50:27Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:51:52Z larme joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:53:32Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-08T01:54:45Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:55:36Z jaykru_ quit (Quit: leaving desu)
2016-01-08T01:56:16Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T01:56:25Z rick-monster quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T01:57:09Z jaykru joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:00:23Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: going to moon brb)
2016-01-08T02:00:36Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:00:58Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:03:03Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:03:30Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T02:03:54Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T02:07:10Z Jonsky quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.1)
2016-01-08T02:07:15Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T02:07:40Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:07:40Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:14:01Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:16:22Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: brb, one more bugfix. please /msg dwfreed|phone PERL IS AMAZING)
2016-01-08T02:16:25Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:16:45Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:19:12Z jaykru quit (Quit: leaving desu)
2016-01-08T02:20:32Z trebor_home joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:21:55Z jaykru joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:23:06Z resttime quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T02:23:22Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:25:06Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T02:25:27Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:29:27Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T02:30:09Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T02:35:09Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T02:39:22Z nicdev quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-08T02:41:41Z replcated_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:43:10Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T02:46:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T02:48:34Z fn2187 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T02:50:37Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-08T02:56:32Z aap joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:00:05Z aap_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T03:00:43Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:01:09Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T03:01:42Z orbiting joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:09:10Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:11:30Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-08T03:13:30Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:15:40Z mea-culpa joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:17:51Z myrkraverk: Question, when reading a text, which leads up to lisp programming, is it disconcerting to see bytes referred to as 0xFA?
2016-01-08T03:18:16Z Bicyclidine: disconcerting?
2016-01-08T03:18:28Z myrkraverk: I guess I'm just more used to the C convention, than lisps.  Yeah, instead of #xFA.
2016-01-08T03:19:25Z myrkraverk: I may change it later, but my instinct is to write 0x in front of bytes when I write text.
2016-01-08T03:19:56Z Bicyclidine: i think people would usually understand both, but i suppose #x is nicer.
2016-01-08T03:20:16Z myrkraverk: *nod*
2016-01-08T03:20:35Z myrkraverk: I'm still writing, so I'll think about the presentation later c;
2016-01-08T03:21:11Z cpc26_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T03:21:56Z orbiting quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T03:23:40Z orbiting joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:23:47Z orbiting_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:26:37Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:26:59Z orbiting quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-08T03:27:02Z orbiting_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T03:27:22Z orbiting joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:28:08Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T03:28:12Z orbiting_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:28:41Z myrkraverk: Yikes, I've spent about 300 words, just on an introduction to some of the real world problems we encounter with text processing.
2016-01-08T03:28:53Z orbiting_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T03:29:11Z linoge joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:29:49Z Bicyclidine: eh, that's just an abstract length, no big
2016-01-08T03:30:12Z myrkraverk: Time to start talking about decoding octets with SBCL.
2016-01-08T03:30:30Z linoge: Ok so I'm learning Lisp and came across CLOS. I've heard many and more times that state is to be avoided. How is it then that CLOS is part of the cl then?
2016-01-08T03:30:34Z myrkraverk: Ok.  I'm just starting on the code relevant text now.
2016-01-08T03:30:57Z linoge: s/of the/of/
2016-01-08T03:31:15Z myrkraverk: linoge: because CL is not there to force any one type of programming paradigm on you.
2016-01-08T03:31:24Z karbak joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:31:27Z anti-freeze quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T03:32:29Z linoge: Ok, but CLOS being accepted in core isn't a kind of insinuation?
2016-01-08T03:33:00Z myrkraverk: I don't think so.
2016-01-08T03:33:28Z myrkraverk: (but I wasn't there, at the time of CL's standardization)
2016-01-08T03:34:29Z Bicyclidine: linoge: CL was not formalized with the idea that state is bad. or for functional programming at all.
2016-01-08T03:34:30Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T03:34:50Z karbak quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-08T03:35:09Z linoge: I didn't say it was bad, just avoided.
2016-01-08T03:35:31Z Bicyclidine: cl wasn't formalized with the idea of avoiding state either
2016-01-08T03:35:39Z linoge: :-)
2016-01-08T03:35:51Z linoge: Ok, but would you recommend me using CLOS?
2016-01-08T03:36:09Z Bicyclidine: however works for you. i'm not a functional purist.
2016-01-08T03:36:15Z myrkraverk: linoge: It depends on what you want to achieve.  I don't always use CLOS, but it's there when I need/want it.
2016-01-08T03:36:36Z linoge: mmm
2016-01-08T03:37:15Z linoge: Well, while learning lisp I've become attracted to language theory (I think it is called like that, isn't it?)
2016-01-08T03:38:34Z linoge: and I'd really want to extend my knowledge, would you please share any book or resource that might be of help for archieving this?
2016-01-08T03:38:42Z Bicyclidine: "programming language theory", i guess you mean
2016-01-08T03:38:46Z Bicyclidine: Lisp in Small Pieces is nice
2016-01-08T03:38:51Z linoge: Yep
2016-01-08T03:39:18Z Bicyclidine: Types and Programming Languages is more PLTy, plus it'll incidentally teach you basic haskell and typed racket
2016-01-08T03:39:37Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-08T03:41:41Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:44:01Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:45:29Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:47:42Z linoge left #lisp
2016-01-08T03:47:44Z linoge joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:47:57Z linoge quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T03:49:56Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T03:50:28Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:52:23Z trebor_home quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T03:55:46Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-08T03:58:02Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:01:02Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:03:49Z warweasle quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T04:03:50Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T04:07:03Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T04:08:50Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:18:08Z slyrus joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:18:32Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:20:14Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T04:22:17Z Rav3n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T04:22:53Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T04:22:53Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T04:23:49Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T04:25:32Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-08T04:25:49Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-08T04:31:02Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:32:55Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:33:07Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-08T04:33:46Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:33:47Z dogfood quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T04:35:34Z warweasle: beach: Good morning...well, nearing midnight rather.
2016-01-08T04:37:14Z beach: For those who didn't see my progress report some 10 hours ago: Cluffer passes all tests with nearly 100% coverage.  In the next few days I'll try to cover the rest as well.  Documentation is nearly finished, and the PDF looks like this: http://metamodular.com/cluffer.pdf
2016-01-08T04:37:39Z slyrus: morning beach!
2016-01-08T04:38:00Z loke: What is cluffer actually?
2016-01-08T04:38:01Z beach: slyrus: Did I send you email about your libraries?
2016-01-08T04:38:03Z warweasle: What's cluffer?
2016-01-08T04:38:07Z loke: (and I still associate it with Fluffer)
2016-01-08T04:38:10Z slyrus: beach: no, I don't think so
2016-01-08T04:38:12Z warweasle: Is it like clompers?
2016-01-08T04:38:27Z beach: Cluffer a library for representing the buffer of a text editor.
2016-01-08T04:38:46Z warweasle: beach: You have my attention. Go on.
2016-01-08T04:38:47Z beach: slyrus: There are several GIT repositories that are no longer available.
2016-01-08T04:39:13Z loke: beach: does it integrate with Emacs?
2016-01-08T04:39:15Z slyrus: oh. yeah, I've moved most stuff over to github. lemme know if there's something in particular that I've missed.
2016-01-08T04:39:21Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T04:39:22Z beach: warweasle: Several people write text editors in Common Lisp.  There is Hemlock, Goatee, Climacs, Second Climacs, etc.
2016-01-08T04:39:29Z slyrus: I suppose I could move everything over to c-l.net now too.
2016-01-08T04:39:42Z slyrus: heh. hadn't heard about second climacs.
2016-01-08T04:39:49Z beach: slyrus: OK, then it would be great if you could update the documentation to reflect the move.
2016-01-08T04:39:52Z warweasle: beach: Wait, does it put rich text on textures and images?
2016-01-08T04:40:13Z slyrus: beach: sure, but let me know which libraries in particular you're looking for.
2016-01-08T04:40:14Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:40:49Z beach: slyrus: At that particular time, it was for representing images and loading/storing them.
2016-01-08T04:40:52Z slyrus: and is there a canonical app that uses cluffer, e.g. a full-featured text editor?
2016-01-08T04:41:05Z beach: ch-image?
2016-01-08T04:41:33Z beach: warweasle: It does no such thing.  Think of it as a very efficient representation of an editable sequence, divided into lines, and that lends itself to the use case of a text editor.
2016-01-08T04:41:35Z slyrus: that's been replaced by opticl
2016-01-08T04:41:35Z warweasle: beach: Or does it handle the editing side. Because I have cl-pango which puts the text on an image, pdf or opengl texture. But I could use the "editor" logic. Syntax highlighting, ect.
2016-01-08T04:42:13Z beach: warweasle: I will add parsing logic for various languages, so that's part of the reason for the new representation.
2016-01-08T04:42:22Z slyrus: beach: but if you want the ch-image source, it's here: https://github.com/slyrus/ch-image
2016-01-08T04:42:35Z eazar001 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T04:42:37Z iddqd joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:42:53Z beach: slyrus: OK, thanks.
2016-01-08T04:43:13Z newcup: good god. usually I've been asleep when beach wishes good morning to everyone. it's very late...
2016-01-08T04:43:14Z warweasle: beach: I'm rolling cl-pango into it's own libraray since I use it to make pdfs now. Could you look at that and see if we overlap or if I could make a lisp editor/repl with your stuff?
2016-01-08T04:43:20Z beach: slyrus: It was just that I found the documentation elsewhere and then the link was dead.
2016-01-08T04:43:34Z slyrus: oh, ok. yeah, I should fix that.
2016-01-08T04:44:01Z beach: warweasle: Cluffer does nothing to present the text to the user, so probably no overlap.
2016-01-08T04:44:47Z d00der joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:45:27Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:45:29Z warweasle: beach: You had my attention. Now you have my interest.
2016-01-08T04:45:32Z warweasle: :)
2016-01-08T04:45:35Z beach: warweasle: splittist is using Cluffer to create an editor right now.
2016-01-08T04:45:51Z warweasle: beach: But I need one for 3Dmacs
2016-01-08T04:47:31Z newcup: I reckon movie people consider 3D a gimmick
2016-01-08T04:47:33Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:47:34Z beach: slyrus: I am thinking of using ch-image to replace image loading and representation in McCLIM.
2016-01-08T04:47:35Z warweasle wants to build an editor in common lisp that can handle text, graphics, vector AND 3D.
2016-01-08T04:48:04Z beach: warweasle: The documentation should be very close to complete, so it should be able to tell you whether you can use it for your purpose.
2016-01-08T04:48:32Z jleija quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-08T04:48:44Z warweasle: newcup: It might be a good idea or I might just be attacking windmills. Either way, I think it will secure my legacy.
2016-01-08T04:48:49Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:50:42Z newcup: warweasle: at this point in time, the goggles feel too restricting or inconvenient, and the whole thing doesnt't feel to give any better feeling
2016-01-08T04:50:58Z newcup: warweasle: but I'd be glad to be proven wrong
2016-01-08T04:52:13Z newcup: I think 3d-displays are a big thing in future. how well has e.g. clim prepared for that?
2016-01-08T04:52:16Z warweasle: newcup: Well, I'm not thinking Johnny Mnemonic. But Sometimes it's useful to manipulate data, and drawings in space.
2016-01-08T04:52:17Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:53:13Z newcup: warweasle: in this case I think you're aiming too low. but what do I know.
2016-01-08T04:53:44Z slyrus: beach: use opticl instead
2016-01-08T04:54:09Z beach: slyrus: OK.
2016-01-08T04:54:22Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: if you're a staffer, "/msg dwfreed|phone autovivification is your fault". If you're not a staffer, "/msg #antispammeta dwfreed|phone: autovivification is your fault" (it's -n so you don't have to join to send a message to it))
2016-01-08T04:54:46Z warweasle: newcup: I still think goggles are 57.6 kFails/S.
2016-01-08T04:54:57Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-08T04:55:38Z d00der quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-08T04:55:47Z newcup: :)
2016-01-08T04:55:58Z beach: slyrus: This is not something I will do immediately.  But I do want to simplify McCLIM and other software by making it more modular.  Using a good external library for images would be part of that.
2016-01-08T04:56:18Z newcup: warweasle: the world is as we see it
2016-01-08T04:57:33Z newcup: but isn't the occulus rift in the markets today?
2016-01-08T04:58:49Z warweasle: newcup: Yes, but I'm still not convinced. You know, "wait for the movie because I've heard this before."
2016-01-08T05:00:42Z newcup: then there are two people waiting, at least
2016-01-08T05:02:17Z newcup: warweasle: but I can't see what you're waiting for?
2016-01-08T05:03:40Z slyrus: beach: that would be awesome. you'll need my retrospectiff for TIFF images and cl-jpeg for JPEGs (duh) and similarly a couple other libraries for SVGs too.
2016-01-08T05:03:42Z warweasle: newcup: It's cool, that's true. But is it useful? Or is it another fad?
2016-01-08T05:04:17Z Bicyclidine: oculus is accepting pre-orders, which are six hundred bucks.
2016-01-08T05:04:51Z newcup: warweasle: 3d? I fail to see it being too useful with the current technology. maybe if we ever get the 3d projection technology
2016-01-08T05:05:09Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T05:05:53Z warweasle: newcup: I don't think it's useful because it's not well integrated into other tools. 3D is useful for spreadsheets and presentations. It's just been difficut for a regular user to access.
2016-01-08T05:06:01Z warweasle: 3D plots are fairly common.
2016-01-08T05:06:37Z warweasle: Games are making people wish for HUDs on their PCs.
2016-01-08T05:06:51Z warweasle: Why should this be hard to add or manipulate.
2016-01-08T05:06:53Z warweasle: ?
2016-01-08T05:08:50Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T05:09:15Z newcup: warweasle: well, up to einstein's times, they had to do everything in paper, conceptually in limited 2d, but still they got this far
2016-01-08T05:09:46Z newcup: warweasle: I guess with modern technology people can imagine things that are beyond these limits. I at least hope so
2016-01-08T05:11:08Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-08T05:11:14Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-08T05:11:48Z Bicyclidine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jahnke_gamma_function.png old 3d is fun~
2016-01-08T05:13:03Z newcup: hand-written?
2016-01-08T05:13:43Z Bicyclidine: i don't know what mechanical tools they used.
2016-01-08T05:14:37Z newcup: that's an intriguing piece anyway
2016-01-08T05:15:22Z beach: slyrus: That should be no problem now that we have Quicklisp.
2016-01-08T05:15:38Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-08T05:15:40Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T05:17:08Z beach: slyrus: Do you think it would be worthwhile having a separate library just for the representation of images in memory and for loading/storing such images to various file formats?
2016-01-08T05:17:49Z slyrus: maybe. opticl is kind of that really. there's some simple drawing stuff in there too that could be broken out if necessary.
2016-01-08T05:18:17Z beach: Excellent, I'll have a look at it, and do some tests, but not immediately.  Thanks.
2016-01-08T05:21:37Z mordocai: Anyone know of any test coverage tools that work with prove?
2016-01-08T05:21:52Z newcup: warweasle: hey, you're making an entry in http://itch.io/jam/january-2016-lisp-game-jam?
2016-01-08T05:22:09Z warweasle: newcup: Yes.
2016-01-08T05:22:19Z newcup: warweasle: great!
2016-01-08T05:22:44Z newcup: warweasle: I wanted to participate too, but... no time :(
2016-01-08T05:22:49Z warweasle: newcup: This is a few days old but it's something to show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6uyPZUPb7w
2016-01-08T05:24:48Z newcup: warweasle: looks good, there's no way out :D
2016-01-08T05:25:08Z warweasle: newcup: It's more pacman than maze.
2016-01-08T05:25:25Z warweasle: newcup: with Orbital "LAZERS"
2016-01-08T05:26:12Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2016-01-08T05:26:38Z newcup: warweasle: absolutely, looks good, especially for three days worth of work
2016-01-08T05:26:40Z iddqd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-08T05:26:57Z newcup: I'd never guessed it'd be that fast
2016-01-08T05:27:07Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T05:29:16Z newcup: warweasle: I did this in about three weeks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-SWG3A_mAQ
2016-01-08T05:30:20Z newcup: warweasle: and I hope I'd have time to improve that, especially now as I gave a piano of mine for a friend for his kids to practice on
2016-01-08T05:32:16Z warweasle: newcup: Wow. That looks really good.
2016-01-08T05:32:31Z warweasle: newcup: But what good are neutrals in the key of C?
2016-01-08T05:32:40Z newcup: warweasle: I thought that looks very stuttering and repulsive :)
2016-01-08T05:33:00Z newcup: warweasle: my plan was to change the key, if the score got high enough
2016-01-08T05:33:18Z warweasle was joking.
2016-01-08T05:33:28Z warweasle: newcup: It looked smooth to me.
2016-01-08T05:33:32Z newcup: warweasle: the stuttering is somehow a result of the recording process
2016-01-08T05:33:35Z warweasle: newcup: What are you using for input?
2016-01-08T05:33:44Z warweasle: newcup: I get that on my stuff as well.
2016-01-08T05:34:08Z newcup: warweasle: ah, good. but true, it's no good to only have key of C-major (A-minor)
2016-01-08T05:34:30Z newcup: warweasle: input's from midi device
2016-01-08T05:34:39Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T05:35:55Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-08T05:38:20Z newcup: warweasle: only works with ccl and sbcl, here's the code: https://github.com/jnykopp/notewhacker/blob/master/midi.lisp
2016-01-08T05:39:12Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-08T05:40:13Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-08T05:40:13Z emaczen joined #lisp
2016-01-08T05:41:29Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T05:41:41Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T05:42:37Z warweasle: newcup: I *am* interested but I'm hacking on the gamejam. For some reason it's become important to me. Also, the world has thrown a chunk at me this week because...well, because.
2016-01-08T05:43:49Z newcup: warweasle: I understand very well. It's very hard to divert your concentration to multiple things
2016-01-08T05:43:52Z emaczen: How can I print a Tab Inside a ~{~a~} directive?
2016-01-08T05:44:15Z newcup: warweasle: do concentrate on the game jam! and do well! :)
2016-01-08T05:45:35Z emaczen: (format t "~{~a, ~}" '(1 2 3)) -- replace the comma with a tab is what I want.
2016-01-08T05:45:51Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-08T05:46:11Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-08T05:47:43Z Bicyclidine: emaczen: put in a literal tab, or ~t
2016-01-08T05:48:34Z emaczen: Bicyclidine: ~t works great! I was trying #\tab before without any luck. How would you do it that way?
2016-01-08T05:48:54Z orbiting quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T05:48:59Z Bicyclidine: like, insert an actual tab character.
2016-01-08T05:49:05Z loke: emaczen: You could do (format t "~c" #\Tab)
2016-01-08T05:49:19Z Bicyclidine: doesn't work well with the ~{
2016-01-08T05:49:25Z newcup: emaczen: this is more of a #lisp question, but good if you're satisfied
2016-01-08T05:49:40Z Bicyclidine: ...? this is #lisp?
2016-01-08T05:49:51Z loke: newcup: that's why we're in #lisp
2016-01-08T05:50:13Z newcup: loke: they don't appreciate good whiskies ;)
2016-01-08T05:50:15Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T05:50:24Z newcup: oops, this is #lis
2016-01-08T05:50:25Z newcup: p
2016-01-08T05:50:30Z loke: Only crazy people don't appreciate whisky
2016-01-08T05:50:42Z loke: Anyway, I'm going to lunch now.
2016-01-08T05:50:52Z newcup: loke: bon appetit
2016-01-08T05:51:05Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T05:54:51Z mordocai: Sorry if someone answered this and I missed it, but does anyone know of any code test coverage tools that work with prove?
2016-01-08T05:55:50Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T05:55:51Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T05:56:09Z emaczen: Bicyclidine: (format t "~{~%~t~s~}" '(1 2 3)) -- the ~t seems to only be doing one whitespace
2016-01-08T05:57:21Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T05:57:38Z Bicyclidine: clhs ~t
2016-01-08T05:57:38Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cfa.htm
2016-01-08T05:57:47Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T05:58:00Z Bicyclidine: configure away
2016-01-08T05:58:35Z emaczen: Thanks
2016-01-08T06:01:30Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:01:56Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:02:07Z emaczen quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-08T06:02:36Z dogfood joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:04:19Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:08:12Z phryk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:08:15Z fn2187 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:09:20Z j0ni quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:09:54Z bgs100 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:09:54Z jackdaniel quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:09:54Z dlowe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:09:54Z axion quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:10:01Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:10:49Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T06:11:19Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:11:20Z j0ni joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:11:36Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:12:57Z phryk joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:13:34Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:14:59Z dlowe joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:15:11Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-08T06:15:48Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:17:06Z bgs100 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:18:59Z axion joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:24:48Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:25:53Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:27:33Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:27:55Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-08T06:28:32Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:30:21Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:33:27Z anti-freeze quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:35:09Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:36:36Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T06:40:57Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T06:42:50Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T06:45:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:46:23Z kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:51:12Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:52:04Z beescissors joined #lisp
2016-01-08T06:56:31Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-08T07:00:52Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:04:52Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T07:07:16Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T07:08:36Z warweasle quit (Quit: I better get this orbital laser moving again before it zaps the Earth's core. Screw it, I'll wait for overtime.)
2016-01-08T07:10:25Z Heranort_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T07:10:33Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:11:05Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T07:11:09Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:14:14Z kanru` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T07:15:34Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T07:17:29Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:19:12Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:31:58Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:32:33Z mordocai: So I just tried to add a test system to my project but quicklisp isn't picking it up. https://gitlab.com/mordocai/crypts-and-corpses/tree/master. (ql:quickload :crypts-and-corpses-test) says package not found. What silly/stupid thing am I doing wrong here?
2016-01-08T07:34:05Z mordocai: The directory is in ~/quicklisp/local-projects and crypts-and-corpses system is picked up fine
2016-01-08T07:34:21Z kazlock quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T07:35:40Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:35:52Z H4ns: did you restart your lisp yet?  it could be that there is a cache somewhere.
2016-01-08T07:36:28Z mordocai: I think I did, but i'll try again real quick. Worse case i'll just do what I did in my last project and call it crypts-and-corpses/test and include it in the main .asd
2016-01-08T07:36:35Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T07:37:12Z mordocai: Nah, restarting the lisp didn't help any
2016-01-08T07:38:28Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:38:46Z dogfood quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T07:38:51Z flip214: mordocai: look via strace what files quicklisp looks at?
2016-01-08T07:39:30Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T07:40:28Z mordocai: It's mainly hitting ~/quicklisp/local-projects/system-index.txt
2016-01-08T07:40:32Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:40:48Z mordocai: Which does not have my new asd for whatever reason
2016-01-08T07:42:42Z mordocai: Normally I don't have to manually enter that but maybe it only makes them for packages named after the dir? idk
2016-01-08T07:42:44Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T07:43:16Z mordocai: Either way adding it to that fixes the issue
2016-01-08T07:48:04Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:49:22Z loke: mordocai: Just delete the system-index.txt file
2016-01-08T07:49:35Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:49:40Z loke: It will be rebuilt when you restart
2016-01-08T07:49:49Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T07:51:18Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-08T07:51:30Z mordocai: loke: yep that works
2016-01-08T07:52:38Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:53:29Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-08T07:53:54Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T07:54:23Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-08T07:59:44Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-08T08:00:06Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:01:41Z jimbow joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:01:47Z jimbow: a lot of things in life i know, but one thing i cant figure why a nigger can call me a honkey, and i cant call a nigger a nigger
2016-01-08T08:01:53Z jimbow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPNLIbwiN_4
2016-01-08T08:02:15Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T08:03:36Z jimbow quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-08T08:04:18Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T08:04:42Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T08:06:23Z mea-culp` joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:06:27Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:09:14Z mea-culpa quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-08T08:09:42Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:11:08Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:12:36Z myrkraverk: Question, is it good for or bad form to write #'(lambda ...) ?
2016-01-08T08:14:34Z lieven: I do it that way. It's not necessary but it signals a function value like #'fun does.
2016-01-08T08:14:38Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:14:39Z mea-culp` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-08T08:15:54Z Zhivago: #'(lambda ...) is short-hand for (function (lambda ...)), (lambda ...) is also short-hand for (function (lambda ...)) :)
2016-01-08T08:16:57Z myrkraverk: Ok.  In the elisp world, I think #'(lambda ...) is considered bad form.  So I guess I'll just write (lambda ...) like I'm used ot.
2016-01-08T08:18:08Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:19:20Z Habens joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:19:47Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:28:07Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:28:15Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T08:29:48Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:32:53Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:34:57Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:37:07Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T08:38:00Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T08:38:49Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-08T08:39:23Z scymtym_: mordocai: i think the proper way to update the local system index is QUICKLISP:REGISTER-LOCAL-PROJECTS
2016-01-08T08:40:44Z eMBee quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T08:40:53Z eMBee joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:44:27Z quazimod1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T08:44:34Z je4i: ql is great but lacks documentation
2016-01-08T08:44:54Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:47:59Z jackdaniel: je4i: step in and write it \o/
2016-01-08T08:48:18Z jackdaniel: volunteer based stuff tends to, erm, need volunteers ;)
2016-01-08T08:50:29Z je4i: this is ok, but I would first be interested what xach thinks about it
2016-01-08T08:51:14Z jackdaniel: Xach_: ↑
2016-01-08T08:51:22Z jackdaniel: fair enough :)
2016-01-08T08:55:30Z je4i: minion: memo to Xach: are there any plans to set up kind of wiki for ql to improve documentation?
2016-01-08T08:55:30Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-08T08:56:16Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-08T08:58:28Z splittist: has anyone ever seen good documentation produced by a wiki?
2016-01-08T08:58:28Z myrkraverk: Does minion work with a nick prefix?
2016-01-08T08:59:03Z myrkraverk: splittist: I haven't.  But good documontation have shown up as a series of blog post.
2016-01-08T08:59:09Z myrkraverk: +s
2016-01-08T09:00:20Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:00:21Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-08T09:00:58Z je4i: myrkraverk: enter /msg minion help
2016-01-08T09:01:00Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:01:16Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T09:01:19Z jackdaniel: http://stevelosh.com/blog/2013/09/teach-dont-tell/#act-6-read-the-wiki (whole blog post is great)
2016-01-08T09:03:54Z je4i: jackdaniel: nice one, accepted
2016-01-08T09:05:38Z resttime quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-08T09:06:57Z sigjuice quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-08T09:08:44Z sigjuice joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:09:20Z splittist: jackdaniel: love it.
2016-01-08T09:10:39Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:15:14Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:18:27Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:18:36Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T09:20:50Z myrkraverk: Now, wikis are ok - you can have access controls and a select few editors.
2016-01-08T09:21:03Z myrkraverk: but that's not what people think of, when you mention "wiki"
2016-01-08T09:22:04Z myrkraverk: And it's sometimes impossible to get nontechnical people to realize that a wiki can have access control.
2016-01-08T09:25:17Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-08T09:27:46Z zacharias_ is now known as zacharias
2016-01-08T09:28:57Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:30:01Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:32:17Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-08T09:36:57Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:36:57Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:37:05Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:38:08Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:42:21Z jackdaniel: is there a reason why sbcl signals a warning instead of an error when compiled with invalid mapcar? (defun bah () (mapcar #'(lambda (arg) arg))) ;; no argument to mapcar
2016-01-08T09:43:17Z splittist: isn't that one empty list?
2016-01-08T09:43:43Z jackdaniel: https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/issues/206 <- full logs (both ecl and sbcl)
2016-01-08T09:43:54Z jackdaniel: hm, there is no second argument to mapcar
2016-01-08T09:46:02Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T09:46:46Z Guest82164 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T09:47:30Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:53:45Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:54:12Z Habens quit
2016-01-08T09:55:16Z Guest82164 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T09:55:59Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T09:57:45Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T09:58:38Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T10:02:14Z splittist: clhs throw
2016-01-08T10:02:14Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_throw.htm
2016-01-08T10:03:21Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:11:34Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:11:36Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:15:17Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T10:16:57Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:20:45Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:23:02Z White_Flame: jackdaniel: technically, nothing prevented that DEFUN from completing its task
2016-01-08T10:25:07Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:26:40Z jackdaniel: White_Flame: yes, I'm not saying it's sbcl's bug – just wonderin if there is anything more deep behind this decision
2016-01-08T10:26:56Z jackdaniel: what would render signalling an error bogus
2016-01-08T10:27:20Z jackdaniel: s/wonderin/wondering/
2016-01-08T10:27:36Z yenda joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:28:02Z White_Flame: I wonder if that decision is old enough to be a CMUCL holdover
2016-01-08T10:28:34Z hlavaty left #lisp
2016-01-08T10:29:08Z Zhivago: Consider the result of (*)
2016-01-08T10:30:50Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-08T10:31:27Z jackdaniel: Zhivago: in clhs it's explicitly said, that the syntax is MAP function &rest lists+   ; in opposition to lists* - that's for one. the second thing is that provided function takes exactly one argument
2016-01-08T10:31:56Z jackdaniel: (by MAP I mean the whole family)
2016-01-08T10:34:27Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:36:17Z White_Flame: it's not just MAP, btw.  (defun x (a b c) ...) (defun y () (x 1)) also warns but compiles
2016-01-08T10:36:59Z White_Flame: this latter one is STYLE-WARNING instead of WARNING, but yeah
2016-01-08T10:39:04Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T10:39:09Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:41:06Z Zhivago: That's certainly a strong indicative hint.
2016-01-08T10:41:46Z White_Flame: a hint towards what?
2016-01-08T10:42:52Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:48:19Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-08T10:48:55Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:53:10Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:53:51Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:54:13Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:56:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:56:34Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-08T10:56:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:56:52Z Robdgreat_ is now known as Robdgreat
2016-01-08T10:57:15Z Robdgreat is now known as Robdgreat_
2016-01-08T10:57:25Z Robdgreat_ quit (Changing host)
2016-01-08T10:57:25Z Robdgreat_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T10:57:33Z Robdgreat_ is now known as Robdgreat
2016-01-08T10:59:28Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:01:32Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T11:02:32Z dkcl joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:08:27Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T11:08:42Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:11:14Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-08T11:11:26Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:12:14Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T11:12:43Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:16:55Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T11:18:24Z Posterdati: hi
2016-01-08T11:18:50Z Posterdati: how can I copy a #2a array into a #3m one using gsll?
2016-01-08T11:19:46Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T11:20:51Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:22:24Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:29:11Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T11:30:57Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:31:35Z luis: Xach: ACK
2016-01-08T11:32:03Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-08T11:33:16Z gabot quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T11:33:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T11:35:10Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T11:35:25Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:37:00Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:37:51Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:38:39Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T11:39:10Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:40:14Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T11:41:43Z gabot joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:44:01Z beescissors quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T11:45:13Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:46:09Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:47:25Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-08T11:47:26Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T11:47:35Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T11:49:26Z Wizek joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:08:06Z wailord quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T12:16:37Z wailord joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:16:46Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T12:17:09Z freehck joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:17:59Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:23:16Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-08T12:25:24Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:26:26Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T12:28:07Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:29:57Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:34:15Z Wizek quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T12:35:52Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:36:49Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T12:40:59Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T12:44:03Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-08T12:45:12Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T12:46:29Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:50:14Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:51:04Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:53:46Z mtd_ is now known as mtd
2016-01-08T12:57:08Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-08T12:57:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T12:58:59Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-08T12:59:35Z Guest82164 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:00:15Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:05:04Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:05:27Z sweater is now known as Guest86673
2016-01-08T13:05:35Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:06:30Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:08:14Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:10:26Z dkcl joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:11:56Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:13:12Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:17:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:20:09Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:20:42Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:22:06Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:25:25Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:28:09Z bpanthi joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:28:57Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:29:49Z bpanthi: Help
2016-01-08T13:33:35Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:36:47Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:36:50Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:38:35Z Guest86673 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:40:15Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:40:32Z ogami joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:41:24Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T13:41:26Z ogami left #lisp
2016-01-08T13:47:54Z rebelshrug joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:50:43Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:54:23Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:55:20Z moore33: |3b|:In cl-opengl, is there support for ARB or EXT version of functions when the real thing isn't there?
2016-01-08T13:55:20Z Guest86673 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T13:55:58Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:01:15Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:01:15Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-08T14:01:16Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:02:12Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:02:18Z moore33: |3b|:Nevermind :)
2016-01-08T14:02:45Z bpanthi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T14:04:07Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:05:34Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:08:26Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T14:09:11Z Guest86673 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T14:09:39Z oleo: hello :)
2016-01-08T14:12:44Z loke`: hello
2016-01-08T14:13:25Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T14:13:26Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T14:13:50Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:18:49Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T14:19:56Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:25:06Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:28:03Z Octothorpe joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:28:08Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:29:17Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:29:57Z ACE_Recliner quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-08T14:31:02Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:31:58Z cabaire quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T14:32:36Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T14:33:18Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T14:33:18Z rural joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:34:58Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:37:24Z warweasle: When is the next QuikLisp update? I'd like to coordinate some changes. I've separated some of clinch's libraries: cl-freeimage, cl-pango, and cl-ode.
2016-01-08T14:38:39Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:39:03Z Octothorpe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T14:39:55Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:40:07Z qubitnerd quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-08T14:41:11Z moore33: warweasle: I've been meaning to tell you that you might be interested in my nascent efforts at https://github.com/timoore/lpsg.
2016-01-08T14:41:45Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:44:04Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:46:16Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T14:46:25Z warweasle: moore33: Cool, is this for the gamejam?
2016-01-08T14:46:47Z Octothorpe joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:47:39Z moore33: No, what is that? :) I have two use cases in mind: modelling or CAD programs with complex scenes, and a rendering engine for Climatis.
2016-01-08T14:48:11Z unix_easier joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:48:17Z unix_easier: well
2016-01-08T14:48:31Z warweasle: moore33: Climatis?
2016-01-08T14:48:47Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T14:48:50Z unix_easier: another day of being a linux admin in a java hornetq debian shop, with oracle and postgres, apache, tomcat, and jenkins and appadynamics
2016-01-08T14:48:55Z unix_easier: its a sick sick world
2016-01-08T14:49:04Z unix_easier: ansible is being pushed
2016-01-08T14:49:07Z moore33: wareasle: Or Clim 3; beach's follow-on to McClim.
2016-01-08T14:49:09Z unix_easier: as cure for all ills
2016-01-08T14:49:23Z unix_easier: and vmware is shaking under 100s of vms contention and snapshot backups
2016-01-08T14:49:26Z unix_easier: lol
2016-01-08T14:49:30Z unix_easier: hilarious stuff
2016-01-08T14:50:35Z cabaire quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T14:50:37Z warweasle: moore33: I really wish everyone could get behind a single system, but some need 3D acceleration and others need cross platform, native windowing.
2016-01-08T14:50:38Z k-stz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T14:51:24Z moore33: warweasle: Yeah...
2016-01-08T14:51:29Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2016-01-08T14:52:46Z moore33: warweasle: I've been very slowly working on this. When I started, I wanted to explore some of the current rendering engine ideas, and I didn't want to do it in C++.
2016-01-08T14:53:20Z warweasle: moore33: BTW, my gamejam project uses deferred lighting. :)
2016-01-08T14:53:39Z warweasle: moore33: I intend to push that into clinch proper, soon.
2016-01-08T14:53:49Z moore33: warweasle: Good stuff!
2016-01-08T14:53:51Z warweasle: moore33: And shadows...if I can figure them out.
2016-01-08T14:55:30Z moore33: warweasle: Do you have a hard lower limit on OpenGL version for clinch, or do you check for extensions?
2016-01-08T14:55:47Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-08T14:55:47Z warweasle: moore33: I'm hoping by .5 or .6 to be able to load meshes, do automatic cleanup on opengl objects, and have sdl2 built in.
2016-01-08T14:55:54Z unix_easier: when does the lisp powered desktop come along? to replace mac n windows poo?
2016-01-08T14:56:05Z unix_easier: :)
2016-01-08T14:56:05Z warweasle: moore33: No, but I recommend 3.5.
2016-01-08T14:56:09Z warweasle: moore33: Or above.
2016-01-08T14:56:24Z dlowe: unix_easier: it already came and went
2016-01-08T14:56:38Z moore33: warweasle: In the same vain, I'm hoping to write a .obj loader soon for LPSG.
2016-01-08T14:56:43Z warweasle: moore33: Otherwise, I'm not sure if deferred rendering will work.
2016-01-08T14:57:18Z warweasle: moore33: Why not use classimp? I could use some help with building a shader library for it.
2016-01-08T14:58:02Z warweasle could really use something like a shader compiler, but can't seem to find any of the maintainers to help understand how to use them.
2016-01-08T14:58:41Z warweasle: moore33: Is 3.5 too modern?
2016-01-08T14:58:43Z synchromesh: warweasle: I guess you've seen Chris Bagley's Varjo (https://github.com/cbaggers/varjo)?
2016-01-08T14:59:06Z unix_easier: :(
2016-01-08T14:59:13Z moore33: warweasle: That may be a better way to go. I'm trying to do more FFI than necessary, though in this domain that may be a lost cause.
2016-01-08T14:59:42Z unix_easier: I must say I enjoy openbsd with iceWM and chrome or firefox(with youtube adblok)
2016-01-08T14:59:58Z warweasle: synchromesh: I've looked at it, but I don't understand it.
2016-01-08T15:00:15Z unix_easier: is there any kinda bigtable grid database done in lisp?
2016-01-08T15:00:33Z moore33: warweasle: I didn't know that there was a 3.5 ;) 3.3 seems absolutely fine to me. The remaining users who are on post 3.0 implementations seem to have reasonable extensions, unless your app needs geometry shaders.
2016-01-08T15:01:41Z warweasle: moore33: I was using 3.2, but the only example for multiple output targets required 3.5.
2016-01-08T15:03:00Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:03:18Z unix_easier: when making lisp apps in production, how do lispers handle upgrades?
2016-01-08T15:03:34Z synchromesh: warweasle: He's made quite a number of videos about his CEPL project (that uses Varjo), they might help. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2VAYZE_4wRKKr5pJzfYD1w4tKCXARs5y
2016-01-08T15:03:43Z moore33: warweasle: I've never seen Opengl 3.5; I thought they went from 3.3 to 4.0.
2016-01-08T15:05:39Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:05:59Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:09:02Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:09:47Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:11:12Z warweasle: synchromesh: I'll see about adding that to clinch, but I could use help understanding the compiler and how to integrate it.
2016-01-08T15:11:22Z moore33: Hmm, can't seem to get to assimp's web site.
2016-01-08T15:11:30Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:12:03Z moore33: Someone forgot to pay the bill...
2016-01-08T15:12:28Z synchromesh: warweasle: Fair enough too. I haven't looked at it in anger (as it were) but I met Chris at the last ELS and he seemed very approachable. So if you contact him directly I'm sure he could help you.
2016-01-08T15:14:05Z warweasle: synchromesh: To be completely fair, I have a lot of other items ahead of a shader builder, so I haven't tried very hard.
2016-01-08T15:14:08Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T15:14:22Z rural quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:16:10Z moore33: warweasle: When you say "shader library for classimp," do you mean a library for shading everything that OpenAsset can produce? I don't really know anything about Open Asset.
2016-01-08T15:16:41Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:16:49Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:17:00Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:17:36Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:17:38Z warweasle: moore33: Yes.
2016-01-08T15:17:49Z warweasle: moore33: Or at least the basic ones.
2016-01-08T15:18:00Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:18:32Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-08T15:18:32Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:20:39Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:22:27Z anti-freeze quit
2016-01-08T15:25:01Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:26:20Z unix_easier: are ther any common lisp online games?
2016-01-08T15:26:29Z unix_easier: like world warcraft?
2016-01-08T15:27:18Z lisse quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-08T15:28:17Z dkcl joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:28:29Z moore33: warweasle: It looks like the complicated part is implementing Open Asset's "texture stack."
2016-01-08T15:28:40Z jsgrant: I recall a mmo gamedev framework that used CL on the server-end, but can't exactly recall the name of it atm.
2016-01-08T15:28:47Z jsgrant: Romans? Romance?
2016-01-08T15:28:49Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:28:52Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:29:20Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:29:36Z zwdr: not really about games, but yahoo webshops still uses lisp as templating language
2016-01-08T15:29:43Z jsgrant: unix_easier: http://sourceforge.net/projects/romance/
2016-01-08T15:29:46Z zwdr: I found the docs a time ago
2016-01-08T15:29:55Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:30:05Z jsgrant: I'm not sure if there was ever a game written with it though and/or even how mature that codebase happens to be generally.
2016-01-08T15:30:20Z Octothorpe quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-08T15:30:21Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T15:30:44Z jsgrant: Gamedev is a place I'd like to see CL get some more mindshare in, and due to a number of relevant projects I think there's some potiental there.
2016-01-08T15:33:30Z unix_easier: hmm
2016-01-08T15:33:36Z unix_easier: looks graphically like a phone game
2016-01-08T15:34:01Z unix_easier: eve online is stakless python I heard
2016-01-08T15:34:07Z unix_easier: surely lisp can do better
2016-01-08T15:34:22Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:34:39Z warweasle: jsgrant: Are you familiar with #lispgames?
2016-01-08T15:35:58Z jsgrant: warweasle: Vaguely, I plan on getting more involved later this year actually; CEPL holds a fair amount of interest with me, and if they hold another gamejam in 2017, I'll likely through a hat in that ring to get more involved. :^)
2016-01-08T15:36:09Z jsgrant will probably start lurking there though, now that it's mentioned again.
2016-01-08T15:37:44Z unix_easier: oow
2016-01-08T15:38:33Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T15:38:51Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:38:54Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:39:33Z Guest86673 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:40:07Z warweasle: jsgrant: I'd like to plug my clinch engine.
2016-01-08T15:40:33Z warweasle: jsgrant: A lot is about to change with version 0.5
2016-01-08T15:40:39Z lisse quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-08T15:41:11Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:41:17Z warweasle: jsgrant: I learned a lot making my game and I'm incorporating that experience into clinch.
2016-01-08T15:41:29Z jsgrant: warweasle: Are you BradWBeer, I'm assuming on Github?
2016-01-08T15:41:37Z jsgrant: You are*
2016-01-08T15:41:43Z warweasle: jsgrant: Yes.
2016-01-08T15:42:02Z jsgrant: Oh, I did already star that repo; Thought the name sound familar.
2016-01-08T15:42:09Z warweasle: jsgrant: :)
2016-01-08T15:42:34Z jsgrant: warweasle: Game type?
2016-01-08T15:42:58Z jsgrant: Sorry, I'm being very vague; I'm going to grab some water brb.
2016-01-08T15:43:11Z warweasle: jsgrant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6uyPZUPb7w   It's fully 3D by the way, including physics.
2016-01-08T15:43:44Z warweasle: jsgrant: It's going to be a pacman game but with physics which requires a little more skill.
2016-01-08T15:44:33Z jsgrant: Back, and also neat; I like the spam of lambs. :^)
2016-01-08T15:45:18Z ramky quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T15:45:38Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:45:39Z duggiefresh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T15:45:54Z moore33: warweasle: Do you have thoughts on relying on GC to free OpenGL resources, as opposed to forcing the user to deallocate objects explicitly?
2016-01-08T15:46:01Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:46:54Z jsgrant: warweasle: Now to just implement fully physic realistic water flow, that you have to avoid geting drenched by. ;^)
2016-01-08T15:47:04Z jsgrant: Neat little demo though.
2016-01-08T15:50:39Z unix_easier: I prefer games with swords n spells
2016-01-08T15:50:42Z unix_easier: personally
2016-01-08T15:50:48Z warweasle: moore33: I think a mixed approach is best.
2016-01-08T15:51:15Z warweasle: jsgrant: I've thought about moving to pure ECL so I could use blender easily.
2016-01-08T15:51:18Z lurker joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:51:29Z warweasle: jsgrant: It can do that very well.
2016-01-08T15:51:37Z p_l: jsgrant: sounds like DwarfFortress...
2016-01-08T15:52:28Z jsgrant: warweasle: Oh, I had no idea that there was some intergration assumingly of ECL into/with Blender.
2016-01-08T15:52:31Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: unfair)
2016-01-08T15:52:43Z moore33: jsgrant: What's the connection between ECL and Blender?
2016-01-08T15:53:06Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:53:31Z warweasle: moore33: To elaborate on GC, Opengl objects need to be deallocated. It's best if they are unloaded manually but in case they are not, finalizers should also be used. Furthermore, there should be a weak-hash-table of loaded objects so they can be unloaded on exit.
2016-01-08T15:53:34Z jsgrant: p_l: You know, I still haven't played Dwarf Fortress; Let alone really know what it's about, though I'm pretty sure super realism inregards to physics may be an issue.
2016-01-08T15:53:47Z warweasle: moore33: ECL can use C++ code.
2016-01-08T15:54:10Z cyphase quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T15:54:19Z warweasle: moore33: You can call directly rather than writing a wrapper library.
2016-01-08T15:54:32Z moore33: warweasle: Interesting about ecl.
2016-01-08T15:55:28Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:55:32Z warweasle: moore33: I also believe ECL can be staticly linked with libraries by using configure arguments when you build ECL.
2016-01-08T15:55:59Z moore33: warweasle: It's interesting to consider whether deleting objects on exit is necessary, or if it's easiest to just destroy the OpenGL context and be done with it.
2016-01-08T15:56:01Z warweasle: moore33: If nothing else, you can write your own program, link everything there and then start ECL.
2016-01-08T15:56:29Z warweasle: moore33: I don't think you can count on OpenGL deallocating properly.
2016-01-08T15:56:31Z jsgrant: moore33: Ah, I think what happened is that I assumed like Gimp once did with their custom Scheme; I partially assumed that Blender might of integrated ECL for scripting purposes already. If that's not the case though, then meh, Blenders game-engine looks a bit slugish generally.
2016-01-08T15:56:53Z jackdaniel: warweasle: btw, were you able to reproduce on you home machine the bug you mentioned earlier?
2016-01-08T15:57:02Z warweasle: jsgrant: Although it might make more sense to use an existing game engine with ECL.
2016-01-08T15:57:07Z warweasle: jackdaniel: Yes.
2016-01-08T15:57:19Z jackdaniel: could you report an issue with steps to reproduce?
2016-01-08T15:57:26Z warweasle: jackdaniel: I was going to look into it more when I'm done with the gamejam.
2016-01-08T15:57:38Z jackdaniel: understood, thanks
2016-01-08T15:57:44Z moore33: warwealse: I think you can assume that; otherwise it's a big bug.
2016-01-08T15:57:48Z jsgrant: warweasle: Yeah, but this is the Lisp community; Isn't the point to be extremely impractical and roll everything from scratch, every single time? :^)
2016-01-08T15:57:53Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:58:02Z warweasle: jsgrant: Yes. That goes without saying.
2016-01-08T15:59:07Z duggiefresh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T15:59:28Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T15:59:29Z jsgrant still crosses his fingers for the relevance of mcclim, but knows that qtools is going to win out ultimately. :^I
2016-01-08T15:59:39Z sz0 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-08T15:59:51Z warweasle: jsgrant: Although, I believe a lisp game engine will have advantages over scripting an existing one.
2016-01-08T16:00:10Z jsgrant: warweasle: Well, I can surely agree on that one.
2016-01-08T16:00:15Z warweasle: jsgrant: Such as creating a graphics "bytecode" compiler.
2016-01-08T16:00:17Z moore33: jsgrant: You are probably right, but don't count out beach's infinite endurance :)
2016-01-08T16:00:30Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:01:37Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:02:05Z jsgrant: moore33: Why isn't there a "I want to believe" poster with the little Lisp Alien yet?
2016-01-08T16:02:26Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T16:02:26Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-08T16:02:47Z warweasle: jsgrant: Imagine compiling your game from an editor and it optimizes it into a custom, cross-platform engine.
2016-01-08T16:02:55Z splittist: the biggest barrier to universal adoption of beachware will be the increasingly odd names. cluffer I can just about type, but claracter is never going to work...
2016-01-08T16:03:17Z moore33: splittist: Heh!
2016-01-08T16:03:49Z warweasle: splittist: I should write one call Gizz-MOP
2016-01-08T16:04:12Z jsgrant: Everything beach is selling, I want, I just think the network effect has been so brutally hostile to such things and will likely drown all attempts onwads as it has to the past, that it's stuck in a "to dream the impossible dream" to me; His optimism is great and infectious though and I wish him and his attempts the best.
2016-01-08T16:04:18Z flip214: splittist: will all that be written in clommon cllisp?
2016-01-08T16:04:28Z warweasle: Ok, what is beach up to?
2016-01-08T16:04:58Z moore33: jsgrant: beach just doesn't give a shit about the network effect. If he needs something interesting he writes it, even if it takes yeaers.
2016-01-08T16:05:02Z jsgrant: warweasle: He's the guy working on climacs, mcclim, and a dozen other things.
2016-01-08T16:05:04Z moore33: s/yaers/years
2016-01-08T16:05:09Z warweasle: flip214: I need to eat breakfast. How about some Claptain Clunch. Wow, we are developing a lisp.
2016-01-08T16:05:26Z warweasle: jsgrant: Is it all toward a single goal?
2016-01-08T16:06:02Z jsgrant: warweasle: I'm pretty sure he wants a full CL computing environment, though I haven't heard him say so directly.
2016-01-08T16:06:13Z warweasle: jsgrant: That sounds familiar.
2016-01-08T16:06:21Z synchromesh: warweasle: beach is a CL bodhisattva - he toils for the eventual enlightenment of all Common Lispers
2016-01-08T16:06:50Z warweasle: synchromesh: See Lisp, kill Lisp. Because the real Lisp is inside of you!
2016-01-08T16:07:34Z synchromesh: Choose neither Scheme nor Clojure, but follow the Middle Path - Common Lisp.
2016-01-08T16:07:50Z jsgrant: moore33: I'm already halfway on the bandwagon, though I don't know if I could/would ever be able to get that commited. Those are the people you need though, people who don't really care largely about the network effect and will keep truding onwards regardless.
2016-01-08T16:08:00Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:08:03Z warweasle: "Master Foo, does emacs have Buddha nature?" Thinks a moment, "Why the hell not? It has everything else! ... It lacks a decent text editor, though."
2016-01-08T16:09:17Z warweasle: Schemer: "Buddha is small, clean, and serious." Common Lisper: "Buddha is big, has hairy armpits, and laughs."
2016-01-08T16:09:26Z splittist: The network effect is why Altavista will never be dethroned as the principle search engine of the network, and why new languages like Go, Swift and Rust have no users.
2016-01-08T16:09:52Z synchromesh: splittist: I've just started using Go, actually.
2016-01-08T16:09:54Z splittist: s/ple/pal/
2016-01-08T16:10:07Z jsgrant: Relative "CL competence" is my big 2016 resolution-thingy though, so maybe in a years time I'll be in a state where I'm willing to go all-in or at least close to it.
2016-01-08T16:10:15Z splittist: synchromesh: exactly
2016-01-08T16:10:27Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:10:40Z synchromesh: splittist: Yes, my fingers ran ahead of my brain there I think.
2016-01-08T16:10:52Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:14:39Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:15:47Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T16:17:07Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-08T16:18:16Z unix_easier: altavista?
2016-01-08T16:20:11Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:23:06Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-08T16:23:20Z papachan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:24:02Z dwchandler: altavista was the prominent search engine before google
2016-01-08T16:24:25Z dwchandler: I still miss the boolean search queries
2016-01-08T16:24:26Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T16:24:28Z yrk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T16:25:41Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T16:26:38Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:28:22Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-08T16:29:56Z splittist: clhs upcase
2016-01-08T16:29:56Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for upcase.
2016-01-08T16:29:59Z splittist: (:
2016-01-08T16:30:31Z warweasle: Are there any lispers in Indianapolis?
2016-01-08T16:31:02Z dwchandler: clhs string-upcase
2016-01-08T16:31:02Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_stg_up.htm
2016-01-08T16:31:11Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:31:14Z dwchandler: splittist ^^
2016-01-08T16:31:26Z Guest86673 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T16:31:39Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:33:01Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:34:34Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:34:36Z karbak joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:34:47Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-08T16:35:51Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T16:36:00Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T16:37:43Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:39:26Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T16:44:02Z moore33: clhs a bad cold
2016-01-08T16:44:30Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:44:35Z moore33: hmph
2016-01-08T16:44:45Z moore33: clhs a-bad-cold
2016-01-08T16:44:46Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for a-bad-cold.
2016-01-08T16:44:56Z moore33: That's better.
2016-01-08T16:46:03Z splittist: dwchandler: yes. I was looking for char-up/downcase.
2016-01-08T16:46:23Z splittist is never sure when the standard will abbreviate something...
2016-01-08T16:49:48Z mordocai: splittist: What, you don't have the standard memorized yet? Better get on that :P
2016-01-08T16:51:08Z Xach_: wo
2016-01-08T16:51:08Z minion: Xach_, memo from je4i: are there any plans to set up kind of wiki for ql to improve documentation?
2016-01-08T16:51:12Z Xach_: je4i: no
2016-01-08T16:51:22Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:53:16Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:53:18Z mordocai: Xach_: Hey since you are around. Would a wrapper using http://foo.wyrd.name/en:bearlibterminal violate the "no obscure foreign libraries" rule of quicklisp or might it be able to get in? The library isn't in any package managers but it does ship pre-compiled binaries for windows and linux (I guess NOT mac os?).
2016-01-08T16:54:01Z mordocai didn't want to make a github issue and just waste time if it doesn't have a chance to get in anyway.
2016-01-08T16:54:06Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T16:54:45Z Xach_: I don't want to grab that, sorry.
2016-01-08T16:55:00Z mordocai: No problem, that's why I checked :P
2016-01-08T16:55:04Z Xach_: I'm having trouble with the existing niche roguelike support library, tcod
2016-01-08T16:55:19Z mordocai: Xach_: yeah, that's why I wrote a wrapper for this. tcod was broken for me
2016-01-08T16:55:46Z moore33: Xach_: What's your threshold for "obscure?"
2016-01-08T16:56:40Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:57:18Z Xach_: moore33: i'm particularly sensitive right now, because i'm moving to debian 8 for builds and there are ten or so libraries that are hard to install, and i don't want to add another one.
2016-01-08T16:57:55Z moore33: Xach_: It's really of academic interest for me.
2016-01-08T16:57:59Z Xach_: it counts as obscure if it's not in debian doesn't build with ./configure && make && make install
2016-01-08T16:58:11Z Xach_: (maybe with a little more fuss than that, but not much more)
2016-01-08T16:58:12Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T16:58:35Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T16:58:48Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-08T16:58:49Z Xach_: I would like to have some ready-made way to bundle up these things so setting up a ql build server is a matter of running a script or two, but until then
2016-01-08T16:59:50Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T17:03:12Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T17:03:28Z mishoo_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-08T17:03:40Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:03:49Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-08T17:04:18Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:04:52Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-08T17:05:38Z jackdaniel: o/
2016-01-08T17:05:56Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:06:48Z blub: hi beach
2016-01-08T17:07:07Z jackdaniel: beach: what is your opinion on this? https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/issues/206 (regarding prefered compiler behavior – warning or error)
2016-01-08T17:07:28Z Xach_: http://report.quicklisp.org/2016-01-08/failure-report.html is the current debian 8 failure list
2016-01-08T17:08:37Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-08T17:08:50Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T17:09:00Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:09:26Z mordocai: Xach_: Anything I could do to help or do you just need to slog through it on your own?
2016-01-08T17:10:42Z beach: jackdaniel: Not sure what you are asking.  It is an error, so the compiler should at least warn about it, I would think.  No?
2016-01-08T17:11:26Z jackdaniel: yes, I mean – what is more appropriate - error on compilation or a mere warning
2016-01-08T17:12:16Z beach: Warning I would think.
2016-01-08T17:12:43Z beach: In SICL, I signal an error, but then the compiler should probably convert that to a warning.
2016-01-08T17:13:16Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-08T17:13:27Z jackdaniel: hm, since it's bogus by all means shouldn't it be an error though?
2016-01-08T17:13:43Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T17:14:27Z beach: I haven't thought about it much, but it seems to me that the compiler should not fail to compile virtually anything.
2016-01-08T17:14:46Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:15:26Z beach: For instance, what if that particular form is never evaluated.  Why should the programmer not be allowed to execute that program?
2016-01-08T17:15:28Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:16:38Z jackdaniel: on the other hand warnings should warn about somewhat dubious constructs, invalid ones should be swept away
2016-01-08T17:16:45Z beach: One more argument: Perhaps the programmer would prefer to fix the incorrect code in his/her program in a different order from the one the compiler reports it in.
2016-01-08T17:17:32Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:18:11Z jackdaniel: thanks, I'll think about it. My intuition goes the other way though :p
2016-01-08T17:18:19Z beach: Yeah, I can tell.
2016-01-08T17:18:21Z beach: :)
2016-01-08T17:19:08Z beach: Perhaps it would help you to know that I consider warnings from the compiler to be errors that should be fixed.
2016-01-08T17:19:27Z beach: Of course, some Common Lisp implementations make that pretty hard to accomplish.
2016-01-08T17:20:39Z mordocai noticed a lot of warnings scroll by when compiling sbcl.
2016-01-08T17:22:53Z ralt joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:24:44Z rtoym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:25:06Z myrkraverk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:25:24Z splittist: mordocai: highly valuable information from the compiler about typos and thinkos usually. In my case, at least.
2016-01-08T17:26:48Z synchromesh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T17:26:49Z beach: splittist: Maybe mordocai means compiling SBCL on SBCL.
2016-01-08T17:27:13Z gensym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:27:19Z gensym quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T17:27:19Z rtoym quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T17:27:19Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T17:27:20Z gensym_ is now known as gensym
2016-01-08T17:27:24Z rtoym_ is now known as rtoym
2016-01-08T17:27:32Z myrkraverk_ is now known as myrkraverk
2016-01-08T17:27:45Z jaykru quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T17:28:52Z beach: To me, it is very disconcerting to have some widespread generate warnings when compiled.  That either means that there are errors in that software, or that the implementation makes it hard to avoid warnings in perfectly good code.
2016-01-08T17:29:02Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:29:03Z beach: some widespread software
2016-01-08T17:29:13Z mordocai: beach: Yeah, like when I cloned the git repo and built sbcl using sbcl.
2016-01-08T17:30:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:30:27Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-08T17:30:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:30:33Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:31:00Z moore33: beach: Sometimes It's hard to clean up 35-year old code :)
2016-01-08T17:31:45Z beach: That too.
2016-01-08T17:32:11Z zwdr: well good thing CL is at least reasonably stable with that
2016-01-08T17:32:16Z beach: I spend a considerable amount of time removing warnings from compiling McCLIM.
2016-01-08T17:32:18Z zwdr: but 35 years? Where'd you find that?
2016-01-08T17:33:09Z beach: zwdr: Many implementations were started before the standard was voted, so they are largely written in CLtL1 Common Lisp.
2016-01-08T17:33:43Z jdz: and CL is only 20 years old, anyway
2016-01-08T17:33:55Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:33:55Z loke`: jdz: Umm...
2016-01-08T17:34:10Z loke`: jdz: 27 years old.
2016-01-08T17:34:40Z loke`: Oh wait. Sorry. I mean 22 years
2016-01-08T17:34:49Z loke`: Why did I think it came out in 1989?
2016-01-08T17:35:23Z jdz: does not matter much -- it's last century, anyway :)
2016-01-08T17:35:34Z moore33: zwdr: Parts of cmucl are easily that old.
2016-01-08T17:35:39Z loke`: jdz: Hey. The best centry!
2016-01-08T17:36:11Z moore33: loke`: How are getting that? CLtL1 came out in 1984 or so.
2016-01-08T17:37:56Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:38:16Z loke`: moore33: The standard is 1994
2016-01-08T17:38:29Z loke`: CLtL1 was before the standard.
2016-01-08T17:39:04Z moore33: loke`: What does that have to do with the age of implementations?
2016-01-08T17:39:10Z jdz: for some reason i had year 1995 in my head
2016-01-08T17:39:22Z moore33: For that matter, are there any implementations that were started after the standard came out?
2016-01-08T17:39:34Z jackdaniel: jscl
2016-01-08T17:39:46Z loke`: moore33: ABCL, Clasp
2016-01-08T17:39:54Z loke`: SBCL
2016-01-08T17:40:23Z moore33: Besides, it's really a stretch to say that CL didn't start with CLtL1 and the discussions that lead to it.
2016-01-08T17:40:39Z moore33: loke`: Never mind all the CMUCL code in SBCL...
2016-01-08T17:41:11Z loke`: moore33: Fair enough. Just noticed CMUCL is from 1980
2016-01-08T17:41:24Z loke`: Still, ABCL and Clasp are valid exampled.
2016-01-08T17:41:42Z jackdaniel: clasp shares some code with other implementations too
2016-01-08T17:42:22Z moore33: loke`: I will grant you that. I don't know Clasp; and don't know anything about the code in ABCL.
2016-01-08T17:42:22Z loke`: jackdaniel: Given the liveral licenses on almost all Lisp code, I'd be _very_ surprised if there was a single implementation that didn't share code with another.
2016-01-08T17:42:42Z loke`: Clasp is only a couple of years old.
2016-01-08T17:42:45Z jackdaniel: I think ABCL and JSCL would count
2016-01-08T17:43:03Z loke`: what's JSCL?
2016-01-08T17:43:05Z jackdaniel: loke`: and by sharing code I mean >10% (as a rough estimation)
2016-01-08T17:43:13Z jackdaniel: not finished yet CL implementation in javascript
2016-01-08T17:43:17Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-08T17:43:18Z blub: why reinvent the wheel
2016-01-08T17:43:25Z loke`: jackdaniel: That sounds pretty neat indeed.
2016-01-08T17:43:51Z loke`: Doesn't llvm have a javascript code generator too? Perhaps clasp could be ocerced into using it.
2016-01-08T17:43:52Z beach: minion: Please tell blub about SICL.
2016-01-08T17:43:53Z minion: blub: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
2016-01-08T17:43:53Z jackdaniel: demo here http://www.learnlispthehardway.org/try-lisp/
2016-01-08T17:43:58Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T17:44:08Z loke`: Oh yeah. Clasp uses Sicl
2016-01-08T17:44:11Z jackdaniel: it doesn't have quite a few things yet though
2016-01-08T17:44:15Z loke`: doesn't it?
2016-01-08T17:44:23Z beach: blub: For that ↑ reason.
2016-01-08T17:44:25Z moore33: beach: Should have thought of SICL too :)
2016-01-08T17:44:35Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T17:44:52Z blub: thats a good reason
2016-01-08T17:44:53Z beach: moore33: Well, it doesn't really exist yet, so you are forgiven. :)
2016-01-08T17:45:11Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:45:12Z beach: Dinner.  I might be back later.
2016-01-08T17:45:17Z jackdaniel: \o
2016-01-08T17:45:18Z moore33: Me too.
2016-01-08T17:45:22Z jackdaniel: o/
2016-01-08T17:46:43Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:47:46Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-08T17:48:43Z flip214: |
2016-01-08T17:48:44Z flip214: o
2016-01-08T17:49:00Z flip214: \|/
2016-01-08T17:49:01Z flip214:  o
2016-01-08T17:52:37Z zeroish joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:54:50Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T17:58:36Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-08T17:58:55Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T17:59:29Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T17:59:38Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:02:07Z ekinmur_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:02:24Z lisse_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:04:22Z misv_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:04:26Z oskarth_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:04:35Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T18:04:38Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:04:38Z oskarth quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:04:38Z Zhivago quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:04:38Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:04:38Z misv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:04:44Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:04:52Z oskarth_ is now known as oskarth
2016-01-08T18:05:06Z ekinmur quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:07:40Z jasom: loke`: The problem with using llvm's javascript backend is that nearly all lisp implementations assume the call stack is in addressable memory, but it is not with llvm's javascript backend
2016-01-08T18:11:08Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:13:23Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:17:42Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:19:58Z ekinmur_ quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T18:21:48Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:23:04Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:24:34Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:25:54Z sebboh: Question.. you know that thing where some variables are magically inserted into the scope of a little function that you're calling?  It's called closure, or that's a closely related concept.  How do I do it?
2016-01-08T18:28:32Z sebboh: Suppose (defun call-some-functions (functions) (let ((a 10) (progn functions))))... Then (call-some-functions (list function1 function2))... How can I let function1 and function2 see the let-bound variable?
2016-01-08T18:28:59Z mordocai: (let ((blah 5)) (defun blargh () (princ blah)) (defun blah () (princ blah)))
2016-01-08T18:29:05Z mordocai: Might not be exact but something like that
2016-01-08T18:31:32Z sebboh: defining blah via (let ...) or defining it via loop are the same, right?
2016-01-08T18:32:28Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:32:57Z mordocai: sebboh: Technically it depends but for your use case probably
2016-01-08T18:33:18Z sebboh: I don't understand what you're showing me with those defuns inside there.  I want to pass arbitrary functions in, so I don't have to write many versions of the big function which opens the file and all that.
2016-01-08T18:33:31Z sebboh: mordocai: I accept that answer. :)
2016-01-08T18:34:21Z nzambe quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T18:34:22Z kdas_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:34:45Z beach: sebboh: You would have to define those functions inside the let.
2016-01-08T18:34:51Z jackdaniel: sebboh: you may want to read about dynamic scope
2016-01-08T18:34:53Z p_l: sebboh: you want special variables probably
2016-01-08T18:35:00Z jackdaniel: ↑
2016-01-08T18:35:04Z p_l: not closure
2016-01-08T18:35:23Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:35:23Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:35:35Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-08T18:36:53Z p_l: WITH-OPEN-FILE and WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING are macros that essentially wrap the code in a let block binding some special variables for the scope of that block
2016-01-08T18:36:55Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:37:51Z p_l: they are a great example of "deduplicating" the code for handling some kind of resource
2016-01-08T18:38:34Z unix_easier: down with oracle! ban java!
2016-01-08T18:38:37Z mordocai: sebboh: As far as my example, my naming didn't help much there since I named the let binding and the function symbol the same (though that actually should work thanks to namespaces).
2016-01-08T18:38:38Z p_l: sebboh: hope that helps, can't type lisp on my phone ;-)
2016-01-08T18:39:36Z p_l: best JVM tgat I have usexld so far is from IBM
2016-01-08T18:45:15Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:49:56Z sebboh: oh, duh, for what I'm doing here... I want to write a macro.  This'll be the first one.
2016-01-08T18:50:36Z sebboh: The macro will expand to my current big function... but with whatever values I specify filled in...
2016-01-08T18:51:39Z sebboh: p_l, thank you.  I'm actually using with-open-file and thinking about how it works led me to deciding to write a macro for this. :)
2016-01-08T18:51:45Z sebboh: and all, thank you.
2016-01-08T18:52:06Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:52:10Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-08T18:52:29Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:52:52Z p_l: sebboh: fun thing - it doesn'tchave to be macro (that just takes care of makimg it easy to pass code/functions around)
2016-01-08T18:53:19Z p_l: it qill work just fine with a function that uses funcall on one of its argumenta inside a let block
2016-01-08T18:53:57Z loke`` joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:56:02Z loke` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:56:45Z Robdgreat quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:56:54Z Wojciech_K quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T18:58:03Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2016-01-08T18:58:35Z sebboh: funcall, oh, hm.  Okay.
2016-01-08T18:59:00Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:02:27Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T19:06:46Z phryk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T19:09:06Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:09:12Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:10:51Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:11:49Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T19:15:07Z phryk joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:15:26Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T19:15:43Z unix_easier is now known as azathoth99
2016-01-08T19:16:50Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T19:17:18Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T19:17:41Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:17:52Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:18:27Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T19:21:18Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:22:10Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:28:49Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:33:41Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:36:48Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:40:30Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:43:12Z phryk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T19:43:21Z lisse_ quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T19:45:39Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:47:33Z phryk joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:48:01Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:50:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-08T19:50:56Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T19:51:00Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T19:52:20Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T19:52:36Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:53:59Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T19:54:20Z goglosh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:56:27Z goglosh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T19:57:05Z ekinmur quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-08T19:57:28Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-08T19:57:41Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:00:20Z warweasle quit (Quit: have to go.)
2016-01-08T20:00:59Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-08T20:00:59Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T20:01:15Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T20:01:19Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T20:02:04Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:03:34Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:03:40Z neurostorm joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:03:57Z papachan_ is now known as papachan
2016-01-08T20:04:06Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:07:10Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:07:34Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:08:17Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T20:09:05Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:09:45Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T20:13:49Z neurostorm quit
2016-01-08T20:15:36Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T20:20:31Z goglosh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:21:38Z ggole quit
2016-01-08T20:26:49Z goglosh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T20:27:16Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-08T20:27:17Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:27:17Z attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai
2016-01-08T20:27:18Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-08T20:27:18Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:28:20Z earl-ducaine quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T20:28:28Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T20:28:39Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T20:32:05Z ekinmur_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:34:19Z ekinmur quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-08T20:34:38Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T20:35:36Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:35:51Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-08T20:35:57Z kenanb: how do I get the generic function object given a generic function name
2016-01-08T20:36:14Z kenanb: I want to reach the resulting object reference of defgeneric
2016-01-08T20:36:33Z kenanb: and also, how do I reach its defined methods
2016-01-08T20:37:19Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:40:15Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:40:45Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:42:10Z kenanb: also, AFAIK a generic function is a funcallable-standard-object, if I manually define a class of funcallable-standard-class metaclass and set a function to it, I need to explicitly funcall the instances of that function, how does defgeneric create instances that can actually be directly called instead of being funcalled, does it also define a symbol with the same name in function namespace?
2016-01-08T20:42:39Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T20:43:36Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:44:45Z kenanb: sorry for too many questions, I am trying to find the answers from MOP spec and SBCL source, but the source for that stuff is a little complicated, I couldn't find the answer those three particular questions
2016-01-08T20:45:12Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T20:46:35Z mordocai: kenanb: Just to let you know, I read your questions and have no idea what the answers are
2016-01-08T20:46:52Z splittist: kenanb: as for your third question, isn't this one of the things ensure-generic-function-using-class does? What does the closette code for this do?
2016-01-08T20:47:05Z splittist: s/third/last/
2016-01-08T20:48:37Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T20:49:35Z theethicalegoist joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:50:30Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T20:50:59Z kenanb: mordocai: thank you for trying to answer anyway :)
2016-01-08T20:51:26Z kenanb: splittist: hmm, yes, that seems to be it, thank you!
2016-01-08T20:52:37Z kenanb: CLHS says: The function ensure-generic-function is used to define a globally named generic function with no methods or to specify or modify options and declarations that pertain to a globally named generic function as a whole.
2016-01-08T20:53:20Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:54:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T20:55:06Z wailord quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T20:55:56Z wailord joined #lisp
2016-01-08T20:59:34Z kenanb: ah, so funcallable-instance-function in the case of a generic function is not the one that is actually called by user, but it is the gf's discriminating-function, so the gf definition in global namespace explicitly funcalls the funcallable-instance-function, which is the discriminating-function
2016-01-08T20:59:48Z trinitr0n: http://pastebin.com/Yj4ezjGe
2016-01-08T20:59:49Z kenanb: ok that I understood now, thank you splittist
2016-01-08T21:00:47Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T21:01:15Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:01:57Z splittist: kenanb: my pleasure (:
2016-01-08T21:02:03Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:02:09Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:04:59Z trinitr0n: Sorry for a potential flame question but
2016-01-08T21:05:17Z trinitr0n: what is a good common lisp implementation that is not clozure
2016-01-08T21:05:27Z trinitr0n: is there a generally accepted best implementation
2016-01-08T21:05:34Z mordocai: No and sbcl
2016-01-08T21:05:45Z trinitr0n: purpose would be to run ancient code written for MACLISP or on symbolics
2016-01-08T21:05:48Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T21:05:49Z resttime: Second for SBCL is another popular option.
2016-01-08T21:05:51Z trinitr0n: * or for
2016-01-08T21:05:53Z trinitr0n: okay
2016-01-08T21:05:57Z trinitr0n: that's what I'm using already
2016-01-08T21:06:02Z trinitr0n: it's...
2016-01-08T21:06:03Z trinitr0n: okay
2016-01-08T21:06:18Z mordocai: trinitr0n: It is actually very very good but the repl isn't.
2016-01-08T21:06:23Z mordocai: Use slime
2016-01-08T21:08:17Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:08:26Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T21:08:39Z trinitr0n: mordocai: thank you
2016-01-08T21:08:42Z trinitr0n: this looks promising
2016-01-08T21:08:50Z trinitr0n: second dumb question
2016-01-08T21:08:57Z trinitr0n: any good OpenGL bindings?
2016-01-08T21:09:06Z mordocai: trinitr0n: Yes and come to #lispgames
2016-01-08T21:09:22Z mordocai: Not that it is off topic but there are some people there that don't hang out here
2016-01-08T21:09:31Z trinitr0n: cool
2016-01-08T21:09:34Z trinitr0n: thank you
2016-01-08T21:13:26Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-08T21:15:00Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T21:16:54Z kenanb: splittist: hmm, now that I know it actually creates a function in global function namespace, both fdefinition and symbol-function did the trick to retrieve the generic function object associated with the name :)
2016-01-08T21:17:04Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:17:28Z earl-ducaine quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T21:20:01Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-08T21:21:49Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:25:20Z souref joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:25:25Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:27:37Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:28:42Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-08T21:29:07Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:29:11Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:29:55Z xmad quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T21:33:38Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T21:33:45Z duggiefr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:34:17Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T21:34:29Z Th30n quit (Quit: Bye!)
2016-01-08T21:39:47Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-08T21:42:01Z ApeShot joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:44:29Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:45:43Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:46:17Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T21:47:11Z xmad joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:49:23Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T21:50:32Z ApeShot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T21:51:58Z schoppenhauer quit (Quit: Adé)
2016-01-08T21:52:17Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-08T21:56:27Z vaitel quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T21:58:31Z SonataIII joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:00:05Z papachan quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-08T22:00:12Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-08T22:04:11Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-08T22:04:57Z SonataIII left #lisp
2016-01-08T22:07:05Z LaFolia joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:09:28Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T22:09:30Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:11:11Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:13:23Z AJavaIdiot: (I hope it's ok to post this directly since it's a short line of code)
2016-01-08T22:14:24Z AJavaIdiot: I understand both why this doesn't change the col1 and col2 symbols: (mapcar #'(lambda (x y) (push x y)) '(3 4) (list col1 col2)). My question is, how would I "dereference" (as you would in C) the y, to refer to the actual symbols?
2016-01-08T22:15:16Z AJavaIdiot: I'd be grateful if anyone could just so much as point me towards a function/macro, I don't need a full explanation :)
2016-01-08T22:16:09Z nzambe quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-08T22:20:39Z LaFolia is now known as BWV1006a
2016-01-08T22:22:15Z kenanb: AJavaIdiot: sorry I don't quite get what you want, this is not working and I don't know which part to fix, can you provide a sample output you are trying to reach
2016-01-08T22:22:24Z resttime: AJavaIdiot: Your question feels very odd in the context of C, but to refer to the actual symbol you quote it like 'y which is short for (quote y)
2016-01-08T22:23:08Z kenanb: AJavaIdiot: are col1 and col2 actually variables or should they actually be symbols? because you didn't quote them.
2016-01-08T22:23:45Z AJavaIdiot: I'm sorry, maybe my example wasn't the best
2016-01-08T22:23:48Z AJavaIdiot: Here's the actual code:
2016-01-08T22:23:51Z AJavaIdiot: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304773
2016-01-08T22:24:20Z AJavaIdiot: (Excuse the formatting)
2016-01-08T22:24:30Z BWV1006a is now known as BWV1004
2016-01-08T22:25:19Z pentagram565465 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:25:25Z ekinmur_ quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T22:25:27Z kenanb: AJavaIdiot: it is ok but just to address the syntax problems, you don't newline parens in CL and you don't put whitespaces between them
2016-01-08T22:25:59Z AJavaIdiot: I know, I already asked for some tips about making my code look more idiomatic the other day. I'm just not used to it yet, but thanks
2016-01-08T22:26:13Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:26:49Z InvalidCo: heh
2016-01-08T22:27:12Z InvalidCo: I'd been trying to figure out how to catch certain classes being redefined
2016-01-08T22:27:25Z InvalidCo: just hooking some stupidly complex ui code around
2016-01-08T22:27:32Z tiago joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:28:22Z InvalidCo: after perusing amop and spending days stuck on the same problem I realized you just need to specialize initialize-instance
2016-01-08T22:28:39Z InvalidCo: first arg is your metaclass
2016-01-08T22:28:59Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T22:30:39Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:31:24Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:32:02Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:32:08Z BWV1004 is now known as KurzeSchattenII
2016-01-08T22:32:27Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T22:32:42Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:34:52Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-08T22:35:04Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:37:27Z kenanb: AJavaIdiot: ok, there are many problems with this function, I am trying hard time to understand it, are you trying to transpose the matrix or flatten it into a one dimentional array or something
2016-01-08T22:38:01Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T22:38:04Z pjb: kenanb: (make-array (reduce (function *) (array-dimensions matrix)) :displaced-to matrix)
2016-01-08T22:39:19Z PuercoPop: kenanb: to return the function that would be call use compute-effective-method
2016-01-08T22:39:32Z AJavaIdiot: kenanb: I just cleaned up the code a bit and added a few comments to try to make it more understandable
2016-01-08T22:39:34Z AJavaIdiot: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304774
2016-01-08T22:39:45Z azathoth99 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-08T22:39:47Z AJavaIdiot: But you hit it the first time: I'm trying to transpose the matrix
2016-01-08T22:41:38Z kenanb: PuercoPop: yeah, I figured that out, too, once I realized I can simply reference the generic function object with (fdefinition 'fname). still, thank you :)
2016-01-08T22:41:44Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:43:08Z pjb: AJavaIdiot: you're not using the right data structure.
2016-01-08T22:43:23Z AJavaIdiot: I'm aware pjb! I should be using a 2d array
2016-01-08T22:43:37Z AJavaIdiot: But using the "wrong" data structure is part of the exercise
2016-01-08T22:43:47Z pjb: Oh, somebody's forcing you to use lists.
2016-01-08T22:44:20Z AJavaIdiot: Yes. I already know how to use arrays, but I think the intent is to drive home the point of much easier it is to use the right data structure
2016-01-08T22:44:27Z AJavaIdiot: for each thing (by making us do the opposite)
2016-01-08T22:44:49Z pjb: (let ((matrix '((1 2 3) (4 5 5) (7 8 9)))) (apply (function mapcar) (function list) matrix)) --> ((1 4 7) (2 5 8) (3 5 9))
2016-01-08T22:45:35Z pjb: It works while (< (length matrix) (1- call-arguments-limit)) (or the stack overflows, on some implementations).
2016-01-08T22:46:05Z pjb: Or rather (< (length matrix) (- call-arguments-limit 2)) in this case, since we pass to previous arguments.
2016-01-08T22:46:11Z lurker quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-08T22:46:27Z pjb: Oops, no, 1-. I'm tired.
2016-01-08T22:46:34Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:47:07Z sweater is now known as Guest62034
2016-01-08T22:47:34Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T22:48:05Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:48:42Z kenanb: AJavaIdiot: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3513128/transposing-lists-in-common-lisp
2016-01-08T22:49:29Z kenanb: AJavaIdiot: this link just gives an explanation of what pjb already stated
2016-01-08T22:52:15Z ekinmur quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-08T22:52:40Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T22:53:27Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T22:53:46Z AJavaIdiot: Thanks both pjb and kenanb, I'm working through the explanation right now
2016-01-08T22:54:45Z kenanb: AJavaIdiot: try (mapcar #'+ '(1 2 3) '(6 7 8)) and you'll get (7 9 11) because it applies the function #'+ to the CARs of its arguments, so change #'+ with list, and you'll get almost what you want with a slight difference.
2016-01-08T22:55:16Z AJavaIdiot: But still, just for curiosity's sake, is there any way to do what I was trying to do? ("derefence" the y in the lambda to affect the object it was copied from, or pass in the object (columns (parentheses within parentheses, so appropriate)) to the lambda, and not a copy of its value)
2016-01-08T22:56:01Z kenanb: AJavaIdiot: the difference is you don't have multiple flat lists but a single nested list, so you need to APPLY #'mapcar to it, instead of calling mapcar directly
2016-01-08T22:56:02Z AJavaIdiot: That much I understand kenanb, it's apply that I haven't worked with yet
2016-01-08T22:56:30Z pjb: AJavaIdiot: Well, NIL is not mutable. This is your problem. But if you used a mutable structure to hold your columns, you could do it.
2016-01-08T22:57:16Z pjb: AJavaIdiot: you could use a cons cell.  (let ((col1 (cons nil nil)) …) … (lambda (element list) (push element (cdr list))) …)
2016-01-08T22:57:17Z KurzeSchattenII is now known as LaFolia
2016-01-08T22:57:29Z pjb: Then you would have the columns in (cdr col1) etc.
2016-01-08T22:58:03Z pjb: But with push, you would have collected the elements in the reverse order so you would need nreverse to revert to the original order.
2016-01-08T22:58:16Z pjb: (make-cmatrix :col1 (nreverse (cdr col1)) …)
2016-01-08T22:58:55Z pjb: Oh, no. I see you've processed the rows in the reverse order, so it will be ok.
2016-01-08T22:59:03Z pjb: (make-cmatrix :col1  (cdr col1) …)
2016-01-08T22:59:36Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T22:59:42Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:00:19Z AJavaIdiot: You lost me a bit pjb
2016-01-08T23:00:31Z pjb: ok, let me gather it for you.
2016-01-08T23:00:53Z AJavaIdiot: I thought that mutability was irrelevant here, since in (lambda (element list) ...) list is a copy of whatever I pass to the lambda
2016-01-08T23:01:18Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-08T23:01:40Z AJavaIdiot: To make an analogy: I think I'm passing in by value, and I'd want to pass in by reference
2016-01-08T23:02:17Z AJavaIdiot: (Apologies, I'll be gone for a bit, but I'll read anything you reply when I'm back)
2016-01-08T23:02:58Z pjb: AJavaIdiot: you can keep a reference in the cdr of a cons cell.
2016-01-08T23:03:43Z pjb: In CL, there's only passing by value. Only some values are references (like objets, cons cells, structures, arrays, etc).
2016-01-08T23:04:22Z pjb: So when you want to pass a reference to something that is not a reference, you need to wrap it into a structure that is a reference.
2016-01-08T23:04:24Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T23:07:45Z pjb: AJavaIdiot: check: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304774#1
2016-01-08T23:08:35Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T23:08:52Z pjb: Oh, and you can use mapc instead of mapcar since you don't use the result.
2016-01-08T23:09:12Z pjb: Also correct the comment in row->cols.
2016-01-08T23:09:42Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:13:26Z pentagram565465 quit (Quit: pentagram565465)
2016-01-08T23:15:23Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T23:17:56Z LaFolia is now known as streamOfConsciou
2016-01-08T23:24:41Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:28:10Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T23:28:58Z JokesOnYou77 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:29:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T23:30:19Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:32:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-08T23:33:33Z HardWall quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-08T23:35:07Z Guest62034 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-08T23:37:43Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:38:51Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:39:51Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-08T23:43:09Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:47:19Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:47:36Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-08T23:48:41Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-08T23:48:52Z AJavaIdiot: thanks pjb
2016-01-08T23:52:17Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:54:11Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2016-01-08T23:54:49Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-08T23:55:07Z Guest62034 joined #lisp
2016-01-08T23:56:08Z duggiefr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T00:03:14Z kenanb left #lisp
2016-01-09T00:04:10Z souref quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-09T00:05:02Z souref joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:05:04Z souref quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T00:05:08Z bandrami joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:06:39Z bandrami quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T00:07:09Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-09T00:07:35Z souref joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:07:43Z souref quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T00:08:27Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-09T00:08:45Z Rav3n joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:09:11Z souref joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:09:12Z souref quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T00:09:24Z souref joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:09:31Z souref quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T00:10:21Z souref joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:10:31Z souref quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T00:10:37Z scottj joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:10:52Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-09T00:13:17Z kuanyui joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:13:23Z kuanyui left #lisp
2016-01-09T00:13:25Z streamOfConsciou quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-09T00:16:00Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T00:16:27Z souref joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:16:36Z souref quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T00:17:09Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:18:14Z theethicalegoist: Has anyone read the common lisp recipes book yet?
2016-01-09T00:19:28Z je4i: partly
2016-01-09T00:19:54Z theethicalegoist: how is it?
2016-01-09T00:21:06Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T00:21:39Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T00:21:42Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:21:45Z je4i: I like it.  Learned a lot of things
2016-01-09T00:24:36Z jlarocco_: i wish there were a kindle version
2016-01-09T00:25:07Z jlarocco_: or any ebook version, really
2016-01-09T00:25:47Z theethicalegoist: I think you can get a pdf version from apress, but it's a bit expensive for an ebook
2016-01-09T00:26:20Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T00:27:09Z jlarocco_: oh, just checked their site and it says "eBook coming soon"
2016-01-09T00:27:18Z jlarocco_: $49 doesn't seem too bad
2016-01-09T00:28:05Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:28:45Z jlarocco_: a complete ebook of let over lambda would be nice, too
2016-01-09T00:30:09Z Guest62034 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-09T00:32:20Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T00:35:14Z pseudo_sue quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T00:37:48Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:39:24Z ajf- quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T00:39:51Z ajf- joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:40:22Z ajf- left #lisp
2016-01-09T00:42:10Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-09T00:49:08Z theethicalegoist quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T00:49:41Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:50:19Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:52:19Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T00:52:33Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:53:35Z jleija quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-09T00:54:01Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T00:55:55Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T00:58:37Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-09T01:01:21Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T01:02:26Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T01:03:28Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-09T01:08:23Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T01:14:17Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T01:17:15Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-09T01:22:07Z Zhivago quit (Changing host)
2016-01-09T01:22:07Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2016-01-09T01:27:42Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-09T01:41:01Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T01:42:08Z Heranor__ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T01:42:55Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-09T01:43:37Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-09T01:43:48Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T01:45:32Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T01:48:06Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-09T01:51:05Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T01:59:32Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-09T01:59:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T01:59:44Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-09T02:01:27Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:02:52Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-09T02:03:27Z lisse quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-09T02:04:41Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:07:08Z spyrosoft joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:07:26Z spyrosoft left #lisp
2016-01-09T02:09:29Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T02:11:38Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:16:24Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T02:16:40Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:19:33Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:27:56Z Bike joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:31:45Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:31:50Z yeticry_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:32:23Z mordocai: What's the easiest way to loop across a two dimensional array? I'm thinking nested loop across but idk.
2016-01-09T02:32:44Z mordocai: Though I need the indexes too so maybe just inc some integers
2016-01-09T02:35:08Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-09T02:36:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T02:37:57Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T02:38:35Z sz0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T02:39:00Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-09T02:40:07Z Bike: probably loop increasing an index, and then have two variables bound to the values of mod
2016-01-09T02:42:16Z resttime: Could use two DOTIMES
2016-01-09T02:44:59Z lisse quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T02:45:40Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:46:45Z oGMo: or make a flat displaced array and iterate linearly ;)
2016-01-09T02:47:04Z oGMo: getting the X/Y back is a simple calculation if you need it
2016-01-09T02:47:29Z oGMo: but nested loops are no less efficient and possibly less confusing in some cases
2016-01-09T02:47:30Z Heranor__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T02:47:46Z keix quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T02:48:14Z mordocai: oGMo: Yeah, my array is flat displaced but i'm using axions crawler which isn't :P
2016-01-09T02:48:57Z pseudo_sue: speaking of iteration... is there a nice way to iterate over a function's arguments (as symbols)? Here's the sort of thing I want to do, but the way I did it irks me, & seems unlispy. https://bpaste.net/show/28acd2a46c40
2016-01-09T02:49:45Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:50:08Z pseudo_sue: basically, I want to take a bunch of arguments and stick them into a hashtable with the key being the symbol's name and the value being the symbol's value. seems like there should be a way of doing this.
2016-01-09T02:50:24Z pseudo_sue: (without clunking through it like I did in the paste)
2016-01-09T02:53:06Z oGMo: pseudo_sue: that is not a great way to do that i think
2016-01-09T02:53:13Z resttime: Immediately I think of a macro which feels kinda hacky, but I'm wondering if there's anything that can inspect the function arguements.
2016-01-09T02:53:16Z pseudo_sue: yeah, it seems intuitively stupid..
2016-01-09T02:53:18Z oGMo: i mean, &key arguments for that .. keys tend to be slow as hell
2016-01-09T02:53:53Z pseudo_sue: yeah? what would you recommend. I don't care about speed in this context, since it's a function that will only be called infrequently.
2016-01-09T02:53:58Z oGMo: pseudo_sue: imagine (setf rax ...) and then make a macro so you can (define-regs rax rbx ...)
2016-01-09T02:54:12Z pseudo_sue: (the context here: it's a sandbox for testing ROP-chains in)
2016-01-09T02:54:13Z oGMo: (setf rax 0 rbx 1 rcx 2 ...)
2016-01-09T02:54:41Z oGMo: ah, well, either way a similar approach should work
2016-01-09T02:54:50Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:55:39Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T02:55:53Z pseudo_sue: I like the way &key lets me specify only the regs I need, in this case. Could you say a bit more about the way you'd do this? This is the first project I've really attempted in lisp. Haven't touched macros yet.
2016-01-09T02:56:19Z pseudo_sue: (emacs configs aside)
2016-01-09T02:56:20Z oGMo: but setf also lets you specify what you need
2016-01-09T02:57:19Z oGMo: (defun (setf REGNAME) (v) (setf (gethash 'REGNAME *registers*) v)) should be an easy macro to make
2016-01-09T02:57:24Z pseudo_sue: okay, and I could use a macro to have, say, "rax" (or, better, %rax) expand to (gethash "rax" *registers*)?
2016-01-09T02:57:31Z oGMo: also you might want to use symbols rather than strings
2016-01-09T02:57:38Z pseudo_sue: nice.
2016-01-09T02:57:55Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T02:58:05Z pseudo_sue: makes sense. strings seem unnecessarily heavy for smth like this
2016-01-09T02:58:10Z Zhivago: Why are you looking them up dyamically? :)
2016-01-09T02:58:19Z pseudo_sue: because noob.
2016-01-09T02:58:21Z oGMo: also you can make accessors that way. you might want to tie this to some VM stateful object thing rather than a global, but either way
2016-01-09T02:59:11Z pseudo_sue: using a class?
2016-01-09T02:59:56Z Zhivago: If it doesn't need to be dynamic, you can just have something like (define-register rax ...)
2016-01-09T03:00:24Z Zhivago: And that can establish whatever operations you want on rax with all of the appropriate parameters.
2016-01-09T03:00:29Z pseudo_sue: Zhivago: you're right, I'll probably want bring this down to a lexical binding, especially if I want to be running multiple vm threads at once.
2016-01-09T03:00:53Z Nikotiin` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:01:39Z pseudo_sue: I'm really green with lisp rn, so if there's any tutorials, wikis, manuals, etc. that you could point me to (Practical Common Lisp is what I've been using so far) that would be super-welcome
2016-01-09T03:02:42Z jaykru joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:02:50Z pseudo_sue: or, say, a gist or snippet that does roughly the sort of thing you're talking about
2016-01-09T03:02:56Z seg_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:03:54Z yrdz` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:04:04Z honkfest1val joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:04:05Z russell-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:04:16Z ft_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:04:20Z rural joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:04:40Z micro__ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:05:04Z micro__ is now known as Guest93856
2016-01-09T03:05:55Z resttime: I call it the "uh-oh" macro: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304789
2016-01-09T03:06:15Z yang_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:06:33Z pseudo_sue: thanks, resttime!
2016-01-09T03:06:45Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:06:52Z yrdz quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-09T03:07:20Z yrdz` is now known as yrdz
2016-01-09T03:07:33Z yrdz quit (Changing host)
2016-01-09T03:07:33Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:08:40Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-09T03:09:27Z resttime: No problem, it just does the same thing as before (except the hash-key is uppercase).  Also it's definitely an "uh-oh"  so don't use it lol.  Though it is a way you can think of for meta programming is all.
2016-01-09T03:10:25Z pseudo_sue: it's a good place to start. the (symbol-name arg) bit is actually pretty close to what I was originally looking for. I'll give some more thought to scoping, too, before I get too attached to any particular way of setting this up.
2016-01-09T03:10:38Z pseudo_sue: got to run for a bit. thanks again!
2016-01-09T03:11:40Z k-stz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:40Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:40Z AeroNotix quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:40Z Tristam quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:40Z Khisanth quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:40Z yang quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z seg quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z ft quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z russell-- quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z balle quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z MoALTz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z Walex quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z honkfestival quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z troydm quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z djh quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z micro_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z setheus quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z chavezgu quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z vxxe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z haasn quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z cyraxjoe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z mnoonan quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z oGMo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z mach quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z Patzy quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z Fade quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z killmaster quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z zickzackv quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:42Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-09T03:11:50Z seg_ is now known as seg
2016-01-09T03:12:01Z ft_ is now known as ft
2016-01-09T03:13:24Z lnostdal_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T03:13:54Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:14:02Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:14:13Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:15:58Z resttime: Oh whoa it's really wrong, should be collecting those SETF's into a list and then splicing hahaha.
2016-01-09T03:16:01Z bandrami joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:16:18Z resttime: Uh-oh D:
2016-01-09T03:18:25Z haasn` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:19:16Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:19:28Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T03:19:45Z pseudo_sue: (phew, good thing I'm still here... I figured it was buggy as is though. )
2016-01-09T03:19:58Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:20:31Z Tristam joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:20:56Z bandrami quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-09T03:21:15Z resttime: That should do it, still an uh-oh though lol: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304789#1
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z troydm joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z AeroNotix joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z balle joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z Walex joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z djh joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z setheus joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z chavezgu joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z vxxe joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z _death joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z mnoonan joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z oGMo joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z mach joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z Patzy joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z mood joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z Fade joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z killmaster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z zickzackv joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:22Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:22:30Z pseudo_sue: thanks again!
2016-01-09T03:23:28Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T03:24:04Z pseudo_sue: this at least scratches the aesthetic itch that my func had left me with. now to go deal with scoping issues...
2016-01-09T03:24:51Z gz_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T03:24:51Z alms_clozure quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T03:25:10Z ck_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:25:26Z Neet quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T03:26:31Z alms_clozure joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:26:32Z gz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:26:32Z Neet joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:29:46Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T03:30:28Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:32:55Z resttime: Replace it later on, it's probably more "aesthetic" in the hacky sense.  oGMo and Zhivago were hinting at something more important regarding better design so make sure to think about what they have said.
2016-01-09T03:33:11Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T03:34:22Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:35:46Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-09T03:35:50Z pseudo_sue: will do.
2016-01-09T03:39:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T03:48:25Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:48:34Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-09T03:48:44Z pseudo_sue: morning, beach!
2016-01-09T03:49:26Z yeticry_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T03:49:30Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:50:37Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:55:35Z m_zr0_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T03:58:20Z m_zr0 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-09T03:59:22Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:09:32Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:09:41Z beach: pseudo_sue: Are you working on something related to x86-64 machine code?
2016-01-09T04:10:02Z pseudo_sue: yup. It's part of a larger project, that I'm just getting started on.
2016-01-09T04:10:21Z beach: Do you care to elaborate on what the project is about?
2016-01-09T04:10:22Z pseudo_sue: I'm working on a platform for genetically programming ROP-chain payloads.
2016-01-09T04:10:28Z beach: Ah, OK.
2016-01-09T04:10:42Z p_l: oh, nice!
2016-01-09T04:10:51Z pseudo_sue: https://github.com/ObliviaSimplex/rop-pharm Here's the readme.
2016-01-09T04:10:58Z pseudo_sue: I just got working on it today.
2016-01-09T04:11:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:11:26Z pseudo_sue: My plan is to teach myself lisp as I go.
2016-01-09T04:11:39Z p_l has been thinking of something using semantic web style knowledge representation for code, as basic block for things like classic AI planning and genetic generation of code
2016-01-09T04:11:40Z pseudo_sue: seems like a good project for the language.
2016-01-09T04:11:57Z pseudo_sue thinks that sounds really cool. 
2016-01-09T04:12:06Z p_l: pseudo_sue: well, it's (IMO) definitely easy to steal code from the compiler ;)
2016-01-09T04:12:37Z p_l: on SBCL, there are (undocumented but workable) ways to simply reuse its code generation library to generate arbitrary code
2016-01-09T04:13:02Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:13:10Z pseudo_sue: p_l: I want to keep everything virtualized though, and living in lisp-land, so that I can port the tool out to other architectures (like ARM, or Dalvik bytecode, or whatever)
2016-01-09T04:13:30Z pseudo_sue: p_l: tell me more.
2016-01-09T04:13:46Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:13:46Z p_l: pseudo_sue: yeah, that was part of what inspired me for the idea of semantic-web style of representation for code/operations/etc.
2016-01-09T04:14:32Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:14:56Z p_l: as for reusing SBCL's bits, http://www.pvk.ca/Blog/2014/03/15/sbcl-the-ultimate-assembly-code-breadboard/ <--- is a very good writeup
2016-01-09T04:15:25Z pseudo_sue: wait, "port" isn't what I meant there. I meant that it could be used to generate rop-chains for non-x86/amd64 machine code as well -- just a matter of writing a different architecture module. the logic'll be the same.
2016-01-09T04:16:01Z pseudo_sue: (module here being: a simplified VM and a battery of lisp functions to stand in for the opcodes)
2016-01-09T04:17:36Z pseudo_sue is reading the pvk post now
2016-01-09T04:17:54Z beach: pseudo_sue: You might want to use slime-indentation in your slime-setup in your .emacs file so that you get LOOP indentation right.
2016-01-09T04:18:17Z beach: pseudo_sue: No need to put a newline after COND in your code if the clauses fit on the remainder of the line.
2016-01-09T04:18:25Z pseudo_sue: beach: thanks for the tip. I confess that my indentation is an undisciplined mess.
2016-01-09T04:18:38Z beach: pseudo_sue: If you have an IF without an ELSE, it is better to use WHEN.
2016-01-09T04:19:00Z pseudo_sue: (I think I was working on a wee little 50 column terminal window at the time I wrote a lot of that code)
2016-01-09T04:19:03Z beach: pseudo_sue: If you have an IF with both branches, put the test and each branch on a separate line.
2016-01-09T04:19:08Z pseudo_sue: thanks.
2016-01-09T04:19:44Z beach: Use 3 semicolons for a comment at the top level of a file.
2016-01-09T04:20:23Z pseudo_sue: this is helpful. I had this really uncomfortable sense of not having a feel for lisp indentation style, and emacs will only get you so far.
2016-01-09T04:20:26Z beach: Instead of testing for numberp in different functions, you may consider using generic functions.
2016-01-09T04:20:31Z pseudo_sue: it's a sort of culture shock.
2016-01-09T04:20:48Z pseudo_sue: beach: I'll check that out.
2016-01-09T04:20:59Z beach: SLIME with slime-indentation will do a very good job on the indentation.
2016-01-09T04:21:04Z beach: ... including LOOP.
2016-01-09T04:22:15Z pseudo_sue: one thing I've got a really poor sense of, so far, though, is where to break the line when you just run out of space (going over 70 chars, say)
2016-01-09T04:22:34Z pseudo_sue: I've got a feel for how to do that in C, say, but not here.
2016-01-09T04:22:38Z beach: Yeah, I agree.  It depends on the situation.
2016-01-09T04:22:51Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:23:23Z beach: Sometimes I use LET* to introduce names so that the "main" form becomes shorter.
2016-01-09T04:23:35Z beach: (or LET)
2016-01-09T04:23:45Z beach: It also serves as documentation for the subforms.
2016-01-09T04:23:50Z wz1000 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:23:57Z pseudo_sue: I think I've been doing a bit of that. glad it was kosher.
2016-01-09T04:24:08Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:24:15Z beach: Of course, not everyone agrees with me. :)
2016-01-09T04:25:09Z pseudo_sue: it's a kind of pythonic idiom, hey? using local bindings freely just to document and abbreviate.
2016-01-09T04:25:23Z Rav3n quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:25:32Z pseudo_sue: (kind of common anywhere, but moreso over there, in pythonland)
2016-01-09T04:26:15Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:26:52Z Bike: 's just throwing a bunch of lemmas into your paper.
2016-01-09T04:26:52Z beach: I believe you.  I don't follow what happens in that land.
2016-01-09T04:27:14Z beach: Bike: Good analogy, yes.
2016-01-09T04:28:28Z pseudo_sue: that's funny, I think I used the same analogy today for an assembly lab i was TAing
2016-01-09T04:29:07Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-09T04:29:16Z pseudo_sue: (well, assembly and architecture -- we were doing the Nand2Tetris labs)
2016-01-09T04:29:27Z pseudo_sue: (which are a lot of fun, btw)
2016-01-09T04:30:33Z beach: pseudo_sue: Where do you work?
2016-01-09T04:30:48Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:30:56Z pseudo_sue: I'm a grad student at Dalhousie, in Halifax.
2016-01-09T04:31:19Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T04:32:04Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T04:32:07Z beach: Interesting.
2016-01-09T04:32:22Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:33:08Z pseudo_sue: how about you, beach?
2016-01-09T04:33:43Z beach: I'm in Bordeaux, France.
2016-01-09T04:34:24Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:34:35Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-09T04:34:42Z eudoxia: hello everyone, i'm in a state of sin and could use some pointers
2016-01-09T04:35:16Z eudoxia: i need to setf the slots of a class instance. like, an instance of standard-class. because i'm serializing standard-class instances and restoring them
2016-01-09T04:35:46Z eudoxia: i can do it in sbcl by setf'ing the sb-pcl::direct-slots but there's not portable way to do it through closer-mop that i know of, probably because it's a horrible idea
2016-01-09T04:36:27Z beach: By "class instance" I assume you don't mean an instance of a class but rather a "class metaobject"?
2016-01-09T04:36:41Z eudoxia: yes
2016-01-09T04:37:03Z Bike: there's class-slots
2016-01-09T04:37:10Z beach: It may not be as easy as that.
2016-01-09T04:37:16Z eudoxia: yes but i don't think that's setfable is it
2016-01-09T04:37:39Z Bike: i am not sure.
2016-01-09T04:37:46Z beach: No, you don't want to setf class-slots.
2016-01-09T04:37:57Z beach: That's done by the class-finalization protocol.
2016-01-09T04:37:58Z Bike: you need to setf for the deserialization, right? why not just make a class all in one shot?
2016-01-09T04:38:17Z eudoxia: i know you can't *quite* restore the same object
2016-01-09T04:38:32Z eudoxia: because you can't tell the different between inherited slots and direct slots
2016-01-09T04:38:36Z eudoxia: unless you store them differently
2016-01-09T04:39:06Z Bike: sb-mop:class-direct-slots?
2016-01-09T04:39:33Z Bike: i'm filled with home that anything exported from sb-mop is in c2mop
2016-01-09T04:39:38Z Bike: mop class-direct-slots
2016-01-09T04:39:38Z specbot: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-direct-slots.html
2016-01-09T04:39:44Z Bike: ha ha
2016-01-09T04:40:18Z eudoxia: direct slots aren't setfable either with closer-mop
2016-01-09T04:40:39Z eudoxia: ah god dammit i'm gonna need reader conditionals for every implementation
2016-01-09T04:40:42Z beach: You can always use REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE with :DIRECT-SLOTS.
2016-01-09T04:40:55Z Bike: But why do you have to setf, I'm not understanding this.
2016-01-09T04:40:59Z eudoxia: hmm, that's a good idea beach
2016-01-09T04:41:18Z eudoxia: Bike: because i can't pass :direct-slots as an initarg in make-instance for some reason
2016-01-09T04:41:27Z beach: This page should tell you what is possible: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/initialization-of-class-metaobjects2.html
2016-01-09T04:41:51Z Bike: :direct-slots shows up in slime for (make-instance 'standard-class ...), at least
2016-01-09T04:42:06Z eudoxia: huh
2016-01-09T04:42:06Z beach: Yes, :DIRECT-SLOTS works.
2016-01-09T04:42:53Z beach: "The :direct-slots argument is a list of canonicalized slot specifications."
2016-01-09T04:43:01Z eudoxia: ah yes i remember the problem
2016-01-09T04:43:18Z eudoxia: it works but throws a strange error
2016-01-09T04:43:38Z beach: "signals"
2016-01-09T04:43:45Z eudoxia: yes, signals
2016-01-09T04:43:46Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:43:53Z Bike: What's the error?
2016-01-09T04:44:04Z eudoxia: see the :direct-slots initarg takes a list of lists, where each list is a slot specification
2016-01-09T04:44:13Z eudoxia: but what I have here arent lists but actual slot objects
2016-01-09T04:44:13Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:44:36Z beach: You can't do that.
2016-01-09T04:44:45Z beach: "The :direct-slots argument is a list of canonicalized slot specifications."
2016-01-09T04:45:01Z eudoxia: yes
2016-01-09T04:45:06Z eudoxia: thus the state of sin
2016-01-09T04:45:12Z Bike: Can you not alter the deserialization to not make slot objects?
2016-01-09T04:45:21Z eudoxia: probably
2016-01-09T04:45:32Z Bike: also, that's kind of weird. i would have expected make-instance to take actual slots.
2016-01-09T04:45:43Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:45:48Z eudoxia: yeah, shame
2016-01-09T04:46:40Z Bike: beach: on the subject or raising signaled throws, check out this trainwreck https://coderwall.com/p/lhkkug/don-t-confuse-ruby-s-throw-statement-with-raise
2016-01-09T04:47:40Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:48:19Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:48:42Z beach: Bike: Thanks.  Similar problem I see.
2016-01-09T04:49:31Z Heranor__ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:49:55Z beach: eudoxia: I suppose you could convert your slot metaobjects back to canonical slot specifications.  As I recall, the identity of a slot metaobject is not important.
2016-01-09T04:51:14Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:51:15Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:51:49Z eudoxia: beach: oh, christ, I don't think so. part of the slot specification to slot object transformation includes an (apply #'make-instance some-list)
2016-01-09T04:52:08Z resttime quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T04:52:15Z eudoxia: turning that back into a list is like turning ash into the high school notebooks i burnt after i graduated
2016-01-09T04:52:29Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:52:33Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:52:39Z Bike: well, yeah, but it's probably just a standard slot?
2016-01-09T04:52:52Z Herano___ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:52:55Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:53:06Z eudoxia: it's a custom subclass
2016-01-09T04:53:29Z Bike: o.
2016-01-09T04:53:36Z eudoxia: ah, fug it
2016-01-09T04:54:00Z eudoxia: i'll just restore it to some other not-quite-a-standard-subclass-instance class
2016-01-09T04:54:28Z Bike: i would first rearrange things so that you just keep the class name and initargs list, and pass that to the class make-instance.
2016-01-09T04:54:32Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:54:32Z eudoxia: see, the broader context of this is, i'm storing class definitions into files so i can diff them, because the class definitions represent SQL tables and the diffs represent database migrations
2016-01-09T04:54:48Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:54:56Z eudoxia: so i don't really need to restore the classes from their serialized representation for anything other than diffing
2016-01-09T04:55:03Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:55:34Z tmtwd quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-09T04:55:35Z Heranor__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:56:38Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:56:43Z Heranor__ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:58:22Z Herano___ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T04:58:38Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T04:59:28Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:00:32Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:00:43Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:02:15Z Heranor__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:03:35Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:04:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:04:46Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T05:11:21Z Jubb joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:11:22Z karbak quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2016-01-09T05:11:35Z Nikotiin` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T05:15:45Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:16:46Z Jubb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:18:18Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:20:20Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:20:22Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:25:30Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:27:53Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:32:36Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:33:22Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T05:40:16Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:40:49Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:41:20Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:41:52Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-09T05:44:06Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T05:48:34Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-09T05:48:59Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:49:24Z psy_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-09T05:49:53Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T05:53:29Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:53:57Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-09T05:59:26Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-09T05:59:59Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-09T06:00:13Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-09T06:01:26Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-09T06:05:06Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T06:12:38Z wz1000 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-09T06:14:14Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-09T06:17:35Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T06:18:18Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-09T06:19:05Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T06:20:04Z adhoc joined #lisp
2016-01-09T06:21:29Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-09T06:23:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T06:23:46Z contrapunctus quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-09T06:23:55Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T06:26:17Z rural quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T06:28:13Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-09T06:29:00Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-09T06:30:40Z russell-1 is now known as russell--
2016-01-09T06:46:02Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-09T06:59:10Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:00:24Z keix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T07:00:59Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:02:38Z contrapunctus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T07:05:54Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-09T07:11:18Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:15:29Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:29:46Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:31:07Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:32:45Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2016-01-09T07:33:50Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-09T07:34:06Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T07:35:24Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:38:41Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:39:05Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:39:30Z |3b| quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T07:40:44Z moore33: beach: You might find this interesting in terms of graphical apps and layers:http://teespring.engineering/posts/how-teespring-uses-canvas-svg-dom-to-design-tshirts/
2016-01-09T07:41:34Z |3b| joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:42:06Z moore33: |3b|: morning
2016-01-09T07:42:15Z beach: Hello moore33
2016-01-09T07:43:07Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T07:43:40Z moore33: beach: I'm up early on a Saturday cuz Isaac is doing last minute work on a big report. That's my boy!
2016-01-09T07:43:56Z beach: Heh.  I see.
2016-01-09T07:44:03Z beach: Is it due this afternoon?
2016-01-09T07:44:31Z p_l: ... or 23:59 yesterday?
2016-01-09T07:45:24Z beach: moore33: Thanks for the link.
2016-01-09T07:45:29Z p_l might be projecting a bit from his own uni experiences ;)
2016-01-09T07:46:02Z beach: Unless time flies very fast, Isaac is still a bit too young for university projects.
2016-01-09T07:46:38Z p_l: beach: ... ah, then due today or monday morning
2016-01-09T07:46:49Z moore33: beach: Monday morning, but it needs to get to the printer today. Report de stage.
2016-01-09T07:47:02Z p_l: took me till university that I started to consider deadlines to be suggestions ;)
2016-01-09T07:47:16Z moore33: SVG is pretty cool.
2016-01-09T07:48:09Z beach: Looks that way.  Isn't it inspired by PostScript?
2016-01-09T07:48:15Z moore33: LibreOffice is a POS. I'm about ready to refuse help on the next project unless he does it in LaTeX :)
2016-01-09T07:48:31Z p_l: moore33: LyX might be usable gateway drug
2016-01-09T07:48:44Z jackdaniel: good morning o/
2016-01-09T07:48:44Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:48:51Z beach: Hello jackdaniel.
2016-01-09T07:48:58Z moore33: beach: That and pdf, esp the transparency stuff.
2016-01-09T07:49:08Z beach: Yes, I see.
2016-01-09T07:49:10Z p_l: beach: I think SVG has more in common with PDF
2016-01-09T07:49:53Z beach: OK.
2016-01-09T07:50:10Z moore33: p_l: That's an idea...
2016-01-09T07:51:09Z beach: moore33: Did I tell you about the huge bug I found in McCLIM?  It only affects people using a lot of keyboard shortcuts (like ESA does) and who have turned their CapsLock key into an additional control key.
2016-01-09T07:51:23Z p_l: beach: easy way to check - PostScript is essentially turing-complete language that happens to have drawing in standard library, while PDF is much more rigid vector drawing description format
2016-01-09T07:51:56Z beach: moore33: Despite the CapsLock being a control, McCLIM still treats it as CapsLoc, so C-x comes across as C-X which is usually not bound.
2016-01-09T07:52:19Z beach: p_l: Right.  I read up on both standards.  But not on SVG (yet).
2016-01-09T07:52:36Z p_l: :)
2016-01-09T07:52:44Z moore33: beach:sigh
2016-01-09T07:53:07Z beach is reminded of his "PreScript" exercise, using Common Lisp macros to do PostScript-like graphics.
2016-01-09T07:53:11Z p_l: beach: sometimes I forget I'm in #lisp, and people here are used to reading the standards ;)
2016-01-09T07:53:38Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:54:10Z beach: Yeah, it's a occupational hazard.
2016-01-09T07:56:02Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:56:06Z resttime quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T07:56:22Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:57:52Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-09T07:57:58Z moore33: beach: then there's the matter of the compose key, international keyboards, etc.
2016-01-09T07:58:08Z beach: I know :(
2016-01-09T07:58:19Z beach: I completely redesigned that in CLIMatis.
2016-01-09T07:58:23Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T07:58:33Z beach: I think we need a first-class "input-method" abstraction.
2016-01-09T07:58:41Z moore33: Yeah
2016-01-09T07:59:13Z beach: Except that it can easily become over-engineered if one takes into account any kind of gesture as input and output.
2016-01-09T07:59:21Z beach: So I need to think about how to accomplish it.
2016-01-09T07:59:33Z moore33: beach: does current Climatis have a working example that outputs text? Graphics?
2016-01-09T07:59:42Z beach: Input methods should also be possible to put in a cascade I think.
2016-01-09T07:59:54Z beach: moore33: Yes, it does.
2016-01-09T08:00:05Z moore33: great
2016-01-09T08:00:13Z beach: There is a calendar example that worked last time I looked.
2016-01-09T08:00:24Z beach: And I regularly use the "Clueless" inspector myself.
2016-01-09T08:00:51Z beach: Yesterday, I wrote a McCLIM GUI with one command starting Clueless on the application frame so that I could inspect it.
2016-01-09T08:00:54Z beach: Works great.
2016-01-09T08:01:43Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:03:34Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:04:24Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:04:26Z kdas_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T08:04:28Z ai2d7 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:04:47Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-09T08:04:48Z ai2d7: how I can define a local variable ?
2016-01-09T08:04:53Z ai2d7: without let
2016-01-09T08:05:03Z beach: Why do you not want to use LET?
2016-01-09T08:05:14Z ai2d7: let is not sugar ?
2016-01-09T08:05:15Z beach: LET is the typical way to define a local variable.
2016-01-09T08:05:21Z jackdaniel: ((lambda (variable) …) value)
2016-01-09T08:05:28Z beach: clhs let
2016-01-09T08:05:28Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm
2016-01-09T08:05:37Z beach: It's a special operator.
2016-01-09T08:05:48Z beach: So it is at the very basis of the Common Lisp language.
2016-01-09T08:05:59Z beach: ai2d7: Again, why do you not want to use LET?
2016-01-09T08:06:22Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-09T08:06:38Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T08:08:16Z ai2d7: beach: so let is not a syntactic sugar in cl ?
2016-01-09T08:08:40Z Zhivago: Not for the purpose of code-walking, at any rate.
2016-01-09T08:08:47Z beach: No, like I said, it is a special operator.  The term "syntactic sugar" doesn't exist in Common Lisp.
2016-01-09T08:08:58Z Zhivago: (which is all special-operator is meaningful with respect to anyhow)
2016-01-09T08:13:32Z zeitue joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:13:48Z beach: ai2d7: So, you just aren't going to answer my question?
2016-01-09T08:15:04Z ai2d7: beach: sorry, I was thinking it's a sugar, so I'd not likt to use it, my apologize
2016-01-09T08:15:57Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:15:58Z beach: If by "syntactic sugar" you mean macros and such, they represent important abstractions.  So if you want to become a good programmer, you should probably learn to like "syntactic sugar".
2016-01-09T08:16:39Z jackdaniel: "Good notation eliminates thought." – Eric Siggia
2016-01-09T08:17:01Z ai2d7: beach: see this http://paste.ubuntu.com/14445343/
2016-01-09T08:17:21Z ai2d7: beach: I don't understand why it's different
2016-01-09T08:18:40Z beach: ai2d7: Why what is different from what else?
2016-01-09T08:19:28Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:19:31Z ai2d7: beach: every (funcall (als)) get the same answer 2, but (defvar ss (als)) and (funcall ss) get different answers
2016-01-09T08:19:47Z jackdaniel: als returns a closure (each call of als returns a new closure). If you store it in a variable each next funcall of stored closure preserves same `m'
2016-01-09T08:20:02Z beach: ai2d7: In the first case, the expression (als) is evaluated twice.  In the second case it is evaluated once.
2016-01-09T08:20:27Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T08:20:31Z beach: ai2d7: When you have general questions like that, you are better off not addressing me personally.  I may disappear at any time.
2016-01-09T08:21:42Z beach: ai2d7: Do you know any other programming languages?
2016-01-09T08:22:01Z ai2d7: yes, python and c
2016-01-09T08:22:33Z beach: OK, then imagine int x = 0; int f() { x++;}
2016-01-09T08:23:02Z Zhivago: Python supports lexical closure.
2016-01-09T08:23:08Z beach: Oh, OK.
2016-01-09T08:23:09Z jackdaniel: ↑
2016-01-09T08:23:21Z beach: ai2d7: Zhivago can explain this better than I can then.
2016-01-09T08:24:35Z beach: My example was not so great anyway.
2016-01-09T08:25:15Z ai2d7: eval twice or once make me confused
2016-01-09T08:25:38Z ai2d7: when it's twice or onec ?
2016-01-09T08:25:55Z Bike: also, that has nothing to do with let syntax. you can get the same effect with (defun als () ((lambda (m) (lambda () (setq m (+ m 2)) m)) 0)).
2016-01-09T08:25:57Z Zhivago: http://ideone.com/kOxvQ1
2016-01-09T08:26:59Z resttime: (als) creates a new "box" which has 0 "apples" and a "button" that adds 2 new "apples" to the "box" every time that "button" is "pushed."
2016-01-09T08:27:19Z resttime: (funcall (als)) pushes the button of the newly created box.
2016-01-09T08:27:35Z resttime: Every time (funcall (als)) is done a new box is made and the button of this box is pushed.
2016-01-09T08:27:58Z resttime: (defvar ss (als)) alternatively saves the box as ss
2016-01-09T08:28:00Z Zhivago: Does that python example make sense?
2016-01-09T08:28:42Z moore33: Gotta go fight fires
2016-01-09T08:28:56Z moore33 quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-09T08:30:49Z ai2d7: Zhivago: I understand the example, but I need think eval once or twice
2016-01-09T08:31:13Z ai2d7: and my english is not good
2016-01-09T08:31:18Z ai2d7: sorry
2016-01-09T08:33:32Z Zhivago: Here is a fairly literal translation into CL http://ideone.com/CLQ1IS -- although normally you would use lambda rather than flet there.
2016-01-09T08:37:14Z BWV1004 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:39:47Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:42:06Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:45:37Z beach: ai2d7: To "evaluate" means to compute the value.  If you call a function twice, you may not get the same result as you would if you call it once, store the value, and use it later.
2016-01-09T08:45:38Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-09T08:46:36Z ai2d7: als return a closure (lambda () (setq m (+ 2 m)) m)
2016-01-09T08:46:40Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-09T08:46:47Z ai2d7: and (als) return m ?
2016-01-09T08:47:00Z ai2d7: and ss is not eq (als) ?
2016-01-09T08:47:05Z jackdaniel: ai2d7: als returns a closure (let (m) (lambda () …))
2016-01-09T08:47:15Z jackdaniel: and let is preserved between this closure calls
2016-01-09T08:47:19Z jackdaniel: s/let/m/
2016-01-09T08:47:41Z jackdaniel: each call to (als) creates new closure, but if you store (als) value in a variable
2016-01-09T08:47:50Z ai2d7: jackdaniel: (defvar ss (als)) and ss'value is not (als) ?
2016-01-09T08:47:52Z jackdaniel: then when you refere to this variable you use the same closure
2016-01-09T08:48:23Z jackdaniel: ai2d7: take function: int *xxx() { return new int[16]; }
2016-01-09T08:48:25Z beach: ai2d7: That's correct.  Each time you call (als) a new object is returned.
2016-01-09T08:48:29Z jackdaniel: each call to xxx returns new table
2016-01-09T08:49:16Z jackdaniel: and als returns a new closure on each call
2016-01-09T08:49:32Z jackdaniel: and closure cares it's own "m" variable
2016-01-09T08:53:04Z ai2d7: each call (als) return a new closure, and store the closure into a variable, and ?
2016-01-09T08:54:05Z beach: ai2d7: Each call (als) returns a new closure that may ore may not be stored into a variable.
2016-01-09T08:54:44Z ai2d7: ok, if I would store it into a variable and ?
2016-01-09T08:54:46Z beach: ai2d7: If you do (funcall (als)) then the closure that (als) returns is not stored in a variable.  It is passed as an argument to funcall which calls the closure and then discards it.
2016-01-09T08:55:08Z jackdaniel: ai2d7: if you store it in a variable, when you call it (this variable)
2016-01-09T08:55:20Z jackdaniel: you refere to the same closure, which has "m" preserved between calls
2016-01-09T08:55:40Z jackdaniel: so if this closure increments `m', then next call "sees" incremented `m'
2016-01-09T09:00:11Z BWV1004 is now known as LaFolia
2016-01-09T09:01:03Z LaFolia left #lisp
2016-01-09T09:02:33Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:02:41Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T09:03:32Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:06:46Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:07:14Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-09T09:11:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T09:12:37Z beach: jackdaniel: ai2d7 must have fainted.  It is easy to be overwhelmed by such fantastic technology. :)
2016-01-09T09:12:57Z alex`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T09:13:19Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:13:26Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:13:56Z jackdaniel: beach: yeah, apparently so. I hope my examples weren't that bad though :p
2016-01-09T09:14:09Z beach: Not bad at all.
2016-01-09T09:15:06Z ai2d7: yes, it's fantastic
2016-01-09T09:15:56Z ai2d7: I mean closure, I don't see this word in other lanuguage
2016-01-09T09:16:04Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:16:24Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-09T09:16:31Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T09:16:32Z contrapunctus: it's mentioned...but not often.
2016-01-09T09:16:53Z beach: ai2d7: Zhivago says Python has closures, and you know Python.
2016-01-09T09:17:40Z Th30n: There's an old saying, objects are poor man's closures.
2016-01-09T09:17:59Z ai2d7: yes, I know a little python, and there's not much about closure on python's introduce
2016-01-09T09:18:27Z beach: Th30n: With CLOS, it's often the other way around.
2016-01-09T09:18:28Z Th30n: ai2d7: Because python didn't have closures initially.
2016-01-09T09:19:11Z Th30n: ai2d7: You had to fake them by using keyword arguments in local functions and lambdas. Setting the default keyword value to something in lexical scope.
2016-01-09T09:19:50Z resttime: There's another old saying, closures are a poor man's object.
2016-01-09T09:20:40Z beach: resttime: That's what I meant by "the other way around".
2016-01-09T09:21:08Z Th30n: beach: Yep, CLOS is probably the only OO implementation that I like.
2016-01-09T09:21:10Z ai2d7: actually I don't like OOP, even through I use them, but I don't often create class
2016-01-09T09:21:34Z resttime: beach: Whoops, missed that which means time for sleep.
2016-01-09T09:21:36Z beach: ai2d7: The concept of a closure is fundamental in programming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_%28computer_programming%29
2016-01-09T09:21:39Z resttime left #lisp
2016-01-09T09:21:39Z jackdaniel: There's yet another old saying: side effects are bad for the cache
2016-01-09T09:21:42Z jackdaniel: :p
2016-01-09T09:22:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T09:23:03Z beach: ai2d7: If I were you, I would stop having (negative) opinions about things that you still need to learn, such as "syntactic sugar" and "OOP" if you want to become a good programmer.  It is much better to learn about those things first, and then have an opinion, which would be an informed one at that point.
2016-01-09T09:23:28Z ai2d7: you're right
2016-01-09T09:24:15Z ai2d7: my some opinions are not good
2016-01-09T09:25:08Z beach: ai2d7: People who hang out here are typically very knowledgeable, so it is preferable to have informed opinions when you discuss with them.
2016-01-09T09:27:16Z mbuf quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T09:27:57Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:28:06Z ai2d7: actually there's a puzzle called yin-yang puzzle make me confused about closure
2016-01-09T09:29:02Z beach: Interestingly, one of the first examples on the Wikipedia page on closures is in Python.
2016-01-09T09:29:48Z ai2d7: it seems yin-yang puzzle is not a cl stuff, so I don't ask it here
2016-01-09T09:29:56Z Joreji joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:29:59Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:30:02Z beach: That Wikipedia page looks like it would be a good idea for you to read.
2016-01-09T09:30:32Z Th30n: beach: Yeah, I laughed a bit seeing the first example in Python. But then again, at work we use closures regularly in Python.
2016-01-09T09:30:36Z ai2d7: I read wikipedia page about yin yang puzzle , but I don't think it's enought detail
2016-01-09T09:32:26Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T09:32:53Z ai2d7: it use continuations, and it don't mention closure on the wikipedia
2016-01-09T09:33:34Z ai2d7: language is a really problem for me, my bad english
2016-01-09T09:34:06Z Th30n: ai2d7: continuation is a different concept from closure
2016-01-09T09:34:17Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:35:10Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-09T09:36:25Z ai2d7: Th30n: yes, it's different, is there a possible one variable save the continuation and the variable is free variable in closure?
2016-01-09T09:36:59Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T09:37:35Z ai2d7: like the upper example, I don't know what's the good name of m
2016-01-09T09:38:06Z Th30n: Ugh, your English really makes the question hard to understand. But if I get it correctly, then the answer would be yes.
2016-01-09T09:38:25Z ai2d7: closure: some free variables and inner functions
2016-01-09T09:38:56Z Th30n: ai2d7: Yes, and the variable gets the value from the scope of function definition.
2016-01-09T09:39:51Z ai2d7: Th30n: like the upper example, so m can store the continuation ?
2016-01-09T09:40:12Z Th30n: What upper example? Wikipedia on closures?
2016-01-09T09:40:27Z ai2d7: Th30n: I mean my example
2016-01-09T09:40:45Z ai2d7: Th30n: m of here http://paste.ubuntu.com/14445343/
2016-01-09T09:40:53Z Th30n: Oh, I came late. I don't have that in my logs
2016-01-09T09:41:35Z ai2d7: m is variable in closure, and it's a free variable to the inner function in closure
2016-01-09T09:41:40Z Th30n: Oh yeah, so for example you say (let ((m some-function)))
2016-01-09T09:41:50Z Th30n: and you use m inside the inner function
2016-01-09T09:42:11Z ai2d7: so this m can store continuation ?
2016-01-09T09:42:48Z Th30n: Yes, functions are first class. You can treat them as data. A variable can store any value, this includes functions.
2016-01-09T09:43:27Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:43:42Z ai2d7: continuation can store what the next to do, and m in closure can store the something, so if m store continuation, I think it's fantastic
2016-01-09T09:44:04Z Th30n: Yep
2016-01-09T09:44:43Z jackdaniel: where did the continuation talk came from? :p it's not available in CL standard (scheme has continuations)
2016-01-09T09:45:12Z Th30n: jackdaniel: I don't know, when I came continuations transformed into closures. So we discussed that, it went back to conts.
2016-01-09T09:45:38Z ai2d7: like there's a function, it display 1 2 3, and it display 1 at the first time I call it, and it display 2 at the second time, and it display 3 at the third time
2016-01-09T09:46:43Z jackdaniel: ai2d7: I know what continuations are, I'm just saying they're not covered by common lisp standard :) cc is a great concept though
2016-01-09T09:46:49Z ai2d7: like you call the function at the first time, it just execute 1/3
2016-01-09T09:47:09Z ai2d7: and you call it again, it execute 1/3 to 2/3
2016-01-09T09:47:31Z ai2d7: and you call it at the third time, it will execute 2/3 to 3/3
2016-01-09T09:47:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T09:47:56Z jackdaniel wonders if ai2d7 read his last statement
2016-01-09T09:48:05Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T09:48:07Z Th30n: jackdaniel: I think he is explaining it to himself.
2016-01-09T09:48:07Z ai2d7: is that wonderful ?
2016-01-09T09:48:29Z Th30n: It sure is, especially when you discover the advanced uses which make some things a lot easier.
2016-01-09T09:49:26Z ai2d7: 1/3 means 1/3 of whole program
2016-01-09T09:49:53Z jackdaniel: ai2d7: you may also get back in time and call the function from the state between 1/3 and 2/3 after 3/3 ;)
2016-01-09T09:52:15Z ai2d7: store the continuation in variable of the closure, then store closure into another variable, each call this variable I call jump to the continuation
2016-01-09T09:52:34Z ai2d7: the different continuation
2016-01-09T09:54:11Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-09T09:54:49Z ai2d7 is now known as ai2d7-away
2016-01-09T09:55:07Z keix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T09:57:26Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T09:58:42Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:00:29Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:03:46Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T10:06:53Z kdas_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:10:11Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:12:55Z kdas_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T10:16:11Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T10:16:52Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:18:59Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:19:15Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T10:21:14Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:23:22Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T10:24:43Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:25:07Z sweater is now known as Guest76031
2016-01-09T10:26:36Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-09T10:29:17Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:30:10Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:32:58Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:35:10Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T10:37:43Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:46:34Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:48:17Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:49:00Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:52:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T10:56:43Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-09T10:57:43Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: "later")
2016-01-09T10:58:01Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:00:03Z tos-1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T11:01:00Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T11:01:35Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:03:38Z jackdaniel: I wonder how feasible would it be to use ISLISP as a bootstrap language for CL implementation
2016-01-09T11:04:24Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:05:49Z jackdaniel: or even as a core for the implementation
2016-01-09T11:09:12Z beach: For bootstrapping, it will probably be better than C or C++, but not as good as Common Lisp itself.
2016-01-09T11:10:20Z beach: What made you consider using something other than Common Lisp for bootstrapping?
2016-01-09T11:11:37Z jackdaniel: I hope you remember our talk about bootstraping from some months ago and CL0 digression. I wonder how the whole thing could be arranged in a modular way
2016-01-09T11:12:07Z jackdaniel: like C -> CL0 -> CL1 -> ISLISP -> CommonLisp -> Additional extensions
2016-01-09T11:12:51Z beach: Actually, I don't remember that discussion. :(
2016-01-09T11:13:36Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:13:49Z beach: I guess I didn't see the point back then, and I don't see it now.
2016-01-09T11:14:31Z jackdaniel: uhm
2016-01-09T11:15:18Z beach: I there some idea behind all this that the languages in the sequence are gradually more complex?
2016-01-09T11:17:37Z jackdaniel: it's easier to port the less complex parts for new architectures (and easier to optimize it). Also I find modular systems more elegant then big monolitic systems and I think they are easier to maintain. It's just a loose idea though
2016-01-09T11:18:41Z beach: I still don't get it.
2016-01-09T11:18:58Z beach: I don't see how this sequence of different languages implies modularity.
2016-01-09T11:19:34Z beach: I also don't see how you will automatically benefit from optimization in a preceding language in the sequence for subsequent languages in the sequence.
2016-01-09T11:20:55Z beach: All I see is that for writing the optimizer for Common Lisp with your method, you have to use a language that is different and potentially less convenient for the task.
2016-01-09T11:21:01Z beach: But maybe I am missing something.
2016-01-09T11:21:12Z Th30n_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:21:24Z jackdaniel: it's mere an intuition, I believe trying to explain it (without a solid thinking first on my side) could do more harm then good
2016-01-09T11:21:37Z beach: Hmm, OK.
2016-01-09T11:21:48Z beach: Perhaps you are thinking of translating Common Lisp to ISLISP, to ...?
2016-01-09T11:22:17Z beach: It occurred to me that this might be the case, given that you are the maintainer of an implementation that translates Common Lisp to some other language.
2016-01-09T11:22:33Z Zhivago: Earlier optimizations can harm later optimizations, as optimizations generally discard information they find irrelevant.
2016-01-09T11:24:11Z jackdaniel: hrm, it's more like writing CL in ISLISP after writing ISLISP in some smaller language going down to C rather then translating
2016-01-09T11:24:36Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-09T11:24:44Z Zhivago: Why not just write CL in CL?
2016-01-09T11:24:46Z jackdaniel: ecl for now it's bootstrapped from ecl_min (which is small lisp interpreter written in C)
2016-01-09T11:24:58Z streamOfConsciou joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:25:04Z Zhivago: Otherwise you get stuck in some lengthy chain of random languages.
2016-01-09T11:27:48Z jackdaniel: lowest common denominator in today computers (in my unerstanding) is C. This chain is just a matter of arranging gradually CL concepts in source code (answering why not just write CL in CL)
2016-01-09T11:28:18Z streamOfConsciou: maybe the lcd is ida pro xd
2016-01-09T11:28:40Z streamOfConsciou: ok, just kidding... sorry :)
2016-01-09T11:30:40Z jackdaniel: either way I've got to go. Thanks for food for thought :)
2016-01-09T11:30:48Z jackdaniel: have a nice day o/
2016-01-09T11:32:54Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:33:13Z streamOfConsciou quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-09T11:38:21Z acidRain_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:41:40Z cadadar1 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:43:13Z Th30n_ is now known as Th30n
2016-01-09T11:43:29Z cadadar quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-09T11:44:52Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-09T11:48:04Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-09T11:48:48Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-09T11:48:59Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T11:49:47Z ai2d7-away quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-09T11:49:59Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:50:23Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:53:23Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T11:53:47Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-09T11:58:26Z iddqd joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:00:15Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T12:06:26Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:09:16Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-09T12:14:24Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:16:29Z yang_ is now known as yang
2016-01-09T12:18:10Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:21:04Z grees joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:24:20Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:24:30Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-09T12:25:30Z acidRain_ is now known as strangiato
2016-01-09T12:28:40Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:33:12Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T12:36:27Z strangiato quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-09T12:39:47Z danceOfEternity joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:41:01Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:44:35Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:45:55Z shka: hello
2016-01-09T12:47:43Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:48:14Z kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:49:10Z synchromesh: shka: hello!
2016-01-09T12:49:26Z shka: so how everyone is doing? ;-)
2016-01-09T12:49:32Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T12:49:54Z shka: btw, can anybody please try to explain to me what the heck monad is?
2016-01-09T12:50:32Z shka: i'm trying to find good explanation online, but sadly each and every one is written in some ML-like language
2016-01-09T12:50:39Z shka: which is not what i understand
2016-01-09T12:51:11Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T12:52:25Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T12:52:39Z synchromesh: shka: "All told, a monad in X is just a monoid in the category of endofunctors of X, with product × replaced by composition of endofunctors and unit set by the identity endofunctor." -- http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3870088/a-monad-is-just-a-monoid-in-the-category-of-endofunctors-whats-the-problem
2016-01-09T12:52:49Z shka: thanks
2016-01-09T12:52:55Z shka: that makes perfect sense
2016-01-09T12:53:00Z shka: ;-)
2016-01-09T12:53:29Z synchromesh: shka: Think of it as a jumping-off point for some reading about & around the subject...
2016-01-09T12:53:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T12:53:54Z shka: aha!
2016-01-09T12:54:13Z shka: so it can be implemented in AOP style
2016-01-09T12:54:15Z synchromesh: shka: AFAICT monads are FP's way of having its functional cake and eating its side-effects too.
2016-01-09T12:54:29Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-09T13:03:45Z shka: synchromesh: i understand that part
2016-01-09T13:03:54Z shka: i just can't figure out how this is implemented
2016-01-09T13:04:56Z synchromesh: shka: I've bought http://haskellbook.com/ and I'm planning to work through it with my kids so hopefully it will enlighten us in due course.
2016-01-09T13:05:27Z kazlock quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T13:08:33Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-09T13:09:15Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T13:12:21Z zeitue joined #lisp
2016-01-09T13:15:39Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-09T13:15:45Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-09T13:17:13Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-09T13:17:33Z tos-1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-09T13:18:07Z MarkusBarthlen joined #lisp
2016-01-09T13:20:01Z beach: So give me some ideas about what an "input method" would be.  What would some operations be on such a thing?  I mean, it takes "gestures" as input and create other gestures as output, but what is the nature of a "gesture"?  Or at least, what are some examples of gestures, and how would they be represented?
2016-01-09T13:20:25Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T13:21:18Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-09T13:23:20Z synchromesh: beach: I (day-)dream of an augmented-reality Emacs where I directly manipulate 3D representations of my source code that hover over my desk. I haven't nailed down exactly what the gestures or their representations would be.
2016-01-09T13:23:46Z beach: It's hard stuff, isn't it?
2016-01-09T13:24:31Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T13:24:52Z synchromesh: beach: Yeah, but at least today with consumer VR & AR headsets and things like WebVR it's something I could conceivably do now as a Masters-level project, rather than being a complete fantasy.
2016-01-09T13:25:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-09T13:25:32Z synchromesh: s/do/have great fun making demos for/
2016-01-09T13:26:33Z beach: Sure.  I am more interested in the abstractions involved.  I can imagine some abstract gestures that I can describe in vague prose, but I am trying to nail down the definitions so that I can represent the stuff in software.
2016-01-09T13:27:32Z synchromesh: Which set of input devices/sensors are you considering initially?
2016-01-09T13:28:24Z beach: I would be happy with keyboard and mouse, but with considerations for typical tactile screens like tablets or phones.
2016-01-09T13:28:40Z synchromesh: One of the problems with VR gestural interfaces will be the "I wasn't raising my hand, I was scratching my nose" issue. You swat away a fly and accidentally rearrange your class hierarchy.
2016-01-09T13:29:04Z beach: That kind of consideration is *way* beyond what I am aiming for.
2016-01-09T13:29:40Z beach: I also don't care to implement all possibilities as long as my abstractions don't make it impossible to do so.
2016-01-09T13:29:48Z synchromesh: Fair enough. :)
2016-01-09T13:30:20Z beach: I can see how to define "input method" with only keyboard input.
2016-01-09T13:30:36Z beach: And I don't even know what it means when a mouse is involved.
2016-01-09T13:30:39Z synchromesh: Tablets offer "scrubbing" and "scribbling"-type gestures that you don't see with mice.
2016-01-09T13:30:50Z beach: Sure.
2016-01-09T13:31:29Z synchromesh: They often seem to be defined in terms of a sort of "visual grammar" with other on-screen objects. Would you need some sort of DSL?
2016-01-09T13:31:32Z beach: There is also the question of more abstract gestures, even with a mouse, say "moving to the left while the middle button is pressed.
2016-01-09T13:32:12Z synchromesh: I appreciate that in Lisp the boundary between "specification", "protocol" and "DSL" is often blurry.
2016-01-09T13:32:20Z beach: Yeah.
2016-01-09T13:33:44Z Guest76031 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T13:34:06Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-09T13:34:25Z wz1000 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-09T13:35:19Z synchromesh: Perhaps we'll end up with the "Ex Machina" model -- a "deep learning" neural network trained on YouTube videos and footage of TV weather presenters that just knows every gesture when it sees it.
2016-01-09T13:35:38Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T13:36:27Z beach: Maybe so.  But I would be willing to start with a set of clearly-defined gestures.
2016-01-09T13:38:37Z danceOfEternity quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-09T13:47:06Z Zhivago: I use cursive script input on my telephone these days.
2016-01-09T13:47:43Z Zhivago: I suspect that a shift will happen back toward penmanship for fine work, rather than flapping your fingers about.
2016-01-09T13:50:31Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-09T13:52:59Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T14:00:41Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:00:46Z dto joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:00:49Z beach: I'll pass, but others should go ahead if they want to.
2016-01-09T14:00:52Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:02:51Z beach: Before email was common, I still remember how happy my sister was when I started typing my letters, because then she could just hand them to the other family members, rather than having to decipher my handwriting.
2016-01-09T14:03:45Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:08:06Z Zhivago: I suspect that your writing would improve if you were using it to talk to a computer. :)
2016-01-09T14:08:16Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T14:08:19Z Zhivago: The fast feedback cycle is powerful.
2016-01-09T14:08:23Z beach: I would get cramps in my hand.
2016-01-09T14:08:59Z dto: Xach_: hello. i have a quicklisp question or two, when you have a moment.
2016-01-09T14:09:06Z dto: and good morning beach, Zhivago
2016-01-09T14:09:18Z beach: Hello dto.
2016-01-09T14:09:26Z XachX: dto: yo
2016-01-09T14:09:47Z dto: XachX hello, :) shall we continue on #quicklisp?
2016-01-09T14:10:12Z XachX: I am afraid I don't have much time. Can you ask here and maybe some one can pitch in?
2016-01-09T14:10:37Z dto: sure.
2016-01-09T14:10:44Z dto: i'll catch you later on :)
2016-01-09T14:10:54Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-09T14:12:47Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:13:48Z dto: so, i have separated my quadtree and collision detection from Xelf out into a small library called Quadrille. https://gitlab.com/dto/quadrille/tree/master    and i'll probably add my A-star pathfinding to Quadrille as well
2016-01-09T14:14:58Z dto: i've got most of the generics and docstrings i need, as well as a quick users guide in the source, but i'd like to write some more documentation and make it into a nice page like http://xelf.me/reference.html
2016-01-09T14:15:48Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:16:10Z dto: the pathfinding and collision detection are both very fast.
2016-01-09T14:17:46Z dto: so my question is, if i follow the guidelines and polish things up very nicely, is that something you might be interested in for QL? I have also some new code for minimal UPnP client that talks to home router server to set up port forwards for games. https://gitlab.com/dto/xelf/blob/master/upnp.lisp which needs some work but I would like to make that into a mini lib too.
2016-01-09T14:18:28Z dto: no rush on answering this. just food for thought.
2016-01-09T14:19:15Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T14:19:51Z synchromesh: dto: FWIW they all sound like very worthy QL projects to me.
2016-01-09T14:20:00Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:22:40Z dto: cool synchromesh well that's 1 vote :)
2016-01-09T14:26:22Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-09T14:26:46Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-09T14:26:57Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:26:59Z beach: I was under the impression that Xach didn't care about the utility of the code as long as it compiles correctly.  No?
2016-01-09T14:27:05Z mood: dto: Add another vote from me. Both sound useful
2016-01-09T14:28:01Z beach: Sure, me too.  It's not my domain, but it looks complete and nice.
2016-01-09T14:28:42Z scymtym_: beach: some minimal meta-data (mainly license) and has to compile in at least two implementations, i think
2016-01-09T14:29:06Z beach: OK, makes sense.
2016-01-09T14:30:23Z dto: are the quicklisp requirements listed somewhere?
2016-01-09T14:31:14Z mood: dto: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects#to-add-a-project-to-quicklisp
2016-01-09T14:31:57Z dto: oh thanks for this mood , looks perfect
2016-01-09T14:33:57Z iddqd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-09T14:34:09Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:34:29Z mood: dto: np. Getting something into QL is really quite easy. I look forward to giving your libraries a spin
2016-01-09T14:34:59Z dto: mood: cool! :)
2016-01-09T14:36:07Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:40:23Z Clemb joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:45:09Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:48:35Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-09T14:51:04Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:52:26Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T14:55:02Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:55:11Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-09T14:55:12Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:55:45Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:59:02Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:59:47Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-09T14:59:59Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:05:02Z jsgrant quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T15:07:39Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:08:28Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T15:12:29Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:14:56Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-09T15:16:24Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-09T15:19:05Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-09T15:21:54Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-09T15:22:06Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-09T15:24:24Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:26:56Z HardWall quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T15:29:35Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:33:56Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:34:20Z sweater is now known as Guest14626
2016-01-09T15:34:44Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:44:19Z grees quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T15:45:59Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:46:01Z streamofconsciou joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:47:08Z streamofconsciou quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-09T15:50:33Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-09T15:51:49Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:54:45Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-09T15:57:07Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T15:58:29Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T16:02:03Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:02:36Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T16:02:36Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-09T16:03:32Z pbgc quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T16:04:11Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-09T16:04:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:05:29Z BWV988 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:14:16Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T16:16:05Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:25:44Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T16:27:05Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T16:27:54Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:28:08Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:29:32Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T16:30:08Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T16:30:40Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T16:31:26Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T16:38:41Z salv0 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T16:42:06Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:42:17Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-09T16:44:36Z Clemb left #lisp
2016-01-09T16:45:48Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:46:28Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:46:39Z rural joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:48:22Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:50:32Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:53:56Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:54:02Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:55:09Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-09T16:55:13Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T16:56:12Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T16:57:28Z abeaumont quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T16:57:35Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T16:58:21Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:01:00Z BWV988 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-09T17:01:24Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T17:01:50Z rtoym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T17:01:51Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:02:50Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T17:04:26Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:10:11Z rtoym joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:11:39Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T17:12:06Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T17:13:52Z loke`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T17:13:59Z loke`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:19:25Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:20:13Z clique joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:23:22Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-09T17:23:34Z mbuf quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-09T17:24:09Z djinni`_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T17:26:48Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:27:37Z clique quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-09T17:30:56Z djinni` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:41:09Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-09T17:42:44Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:43:05Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T17:47:10Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:47:43Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:49:14Z JokesOnYou77 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-09T17:50:27Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-09T17:51:21Z pjb: mordocai: see http://paste.lisp.org/display/304839
2016-01-09T17:51:36Z pjb: Oops, sorry.
2016-01-09T17:51:41Z pjb: pseudo_sue: see http://paste.lisp.org/display/304839
2016-01-09T17:53:20Z rural quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T17:53:25Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T17:53:36Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T17:56:31Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-09T18:00:59Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T18:01:54Z zeitue joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:04:20Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:05:02Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T18:05:05Z gniourf quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T18:05:10Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T18:06:25Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:07:44Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:08:53Z cadadar1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-09T18:13:52Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-09T18:14:27Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:16:15Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-09T18:16:40Z krypt joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:16:48Z gniourf quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T18:17:47Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:18:17Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-09T18:19:05Z redline6561 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:19:58Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:21:42Z pjb: pseudo_sue: if you insist on hash-tables, you can write a macro: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304839#1
2016-01-09T18:21:48Z Guest93856 is now known as micro_
2016-01-09T18:21:54Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:22:51Z gniourf quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T18:23:53Z Jonsky joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:24:18Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:25:07Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:25:28Z splittist: Is the natural implementation of a push-down automaton in lisp simply function calls?
2016-01-09T18:25:54Z Patzy joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:26:36Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T18:27:27Z gniourf quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T18:27:41Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-09T18:28:48Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:30:52Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T18:31:20Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:31:32Z pjb: jackdaniel: given that there are only a couple of ISLISP implementation on a much smaller range of systems, I would advise you to booktstrap ISLISP in CL instead of CL in ISLISP.  Also, implementing ISLISP in CL is rather trivial.
2016-01-09T18:32:16Z mea-culpa joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:34:30Z pjb: jackdaniel: ease of porting is not function of the size of a program, but on its architecture.  A program that is well modularlized and layered, with all the platform specific dependencies well enclosed in definite packages is what makes it easy to port.
2016-01-09T18:36:27Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:36:35Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T18:36:47Z pjb: shka: monads, in CL are method combinations.
2016-01-09T18:36:59Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:37:04Z pjb: clhs define-method-combination
2016-01-09T18:37:04Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_4.htm
2016-01-09T18:37:10Z pjb: this let you define a monad.
2016-01-09T18:38:32Z pjb: beach: Garnet handles gesture input.
2016-01-09T18:39:25Z vsync: pjb: i wonder if this will help me understand monads
2016-01-09T18:39:30Z vsync: i keep trying and getting confused
2016-01-09T18:39:40Z vsync: but i understand method combinations
2016-01-09T18:40:28Z pjb: beach: of course, in Garnet basically the only "gesture" the computers could record were 2D mouse movements.  Nowadays, anything you do with a handheld computer can be considered a gesture, with all the sensors involved: humidity, barometric pressure, 3D accelerometer, 2D screen touches and movements, etc.
2016-01-09T18:40:59Z pjb: vsync: http://dorophone.blogspot.fr/2011/04/deep-emacs-part-1.html
2016-01-09T18:42:30Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:43:01Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:43:04Z pjb: beach: you may also add eye movement (captured eg. with infrared sensors or cameras), body movement (captured eg. with kinect or wifi localization), etc.  Any input source originating from the user.
2016-01-09T18:44:04Z ACE_Recliner quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T18:44:07Z vsync: elisp, interesting choice
2016-01-09T18:44:09Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T18:44:22Z pjb: beach: there are 6D "mouses", where you have a usual 2D mouse, that you can lift up and down too (so 3D), and that you can also rotate on three more axis: 6D.
2016-01-09T18:44:55Z Jonsky: So much to read, but really thank you again pjb
2016-01-09T18:45:01Z pjb: beach: there are styluses for pads that capture the pressure in addition to the 2D movement.
2016-01-09T18:45:11Z pjb: Jonsky: sure. The Internet is big.
2016-01-09T18:45:21Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T18:45:55Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-09T18:46:40Z m_zr0_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-09T18:48:37Z pjb: beach: with devices like kinect or wifi localizators, you could take into account that the human body has 244 degrees of freedom.  Ultimately, a "gesture" would be a temporal sequence of a vector in R^244.  Happily, the various devices project to vector spaces with less dimensions, and more semantically-loaded sequences ("mouseDown" "mouseUp").
2016-01-09T18:49:51Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:51:20Z pjb: splittist: push-down automatons are mathematical objects.  They're not meant only to be "executed".
2016-01-09T18:51:22Z moore33: I want my computer to reboot when I scratch my butt.
2016-01-09T18:51:49Z pjb: splittist: therefore the data structure you will use will as always, depend on the algorithms you want to implement, on your push-down automatons.
2016-01-09T18:52:00Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:52:32Z pjb: moore33: it's possible. with this: http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/06/04/wi-fi-signals-enable-gesture-recognition-throughout-entire-home/ http://wisee.cs.washington.edu/wisee_paper.pdf
2016-01-09T18:53:10Z pjb: moore33: notice that the gesture could have a different meaning depending on the room you're in, the wall you're facing, whether there's somebody else before or behind you, looking at your or not, etc.
2016-01-09T18:53:29Z moore33: pjb:The future is now!
2016-01-09T18:53:50Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:53:50Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-09T18:53:50Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:55:43Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:56:10Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:58:21Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T18:59:29Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:00:33Z beach can now see that he didn't get the problem of "input methods" across at all.  Oh, well.
2016-01-09T19:00:35Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-09T19:00:41Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:01:26Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:01:48Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:02:14Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T19:05:13Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:07:45Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:11:49Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-09T19:18:03Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:18:27Z Wizek joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:18:29Z Wizek quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-09T19:18:57Z Wizek joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:19:20Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T19:19:47Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-09T19:21:28Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:22:26Z trinque quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T19:23:44Z rural joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:23:57Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:24:36Z jsgrant quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T19:24:39Z eli joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:27:39Z trinque joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:32:49Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T19:35:43Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T19:42:36Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-09T19:44:29Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T19:47:44Z rural quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T19:51:26Z rural joined #lisp
2016-01-09T19:51:54Z splittist: pjb: yes, it was a silly comment of mine.
2016-01-09T19:53:35Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T19:53:36Z Guest14626 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T20:04:05Z fiveop joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:07:19Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:07:35Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T20:07:55Z Guest14626 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:08:05Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:08:08Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:08:17Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-09T20:08:32Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T20:09:19Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:10:58Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:12:12Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T20:13:08Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T20:16:01Z MarkusBarthlen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T20:19:23Z fiveop quit
2016-01-09T20:23:32Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:24:27Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-09T20:27:54Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-09T20:27:59Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T20:29:19Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:33:15Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T20:36:09Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-09T20:38:17Z heddwch is now known as nittle
2016-01-09T20:39:10Z nittle is now known as heddwch
2016-01-09T20:41:00Z futpib quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T20:41:25Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:44:39Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T20:45:22Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T20:49:46Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:52:03Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-09T20:52:47Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T20:53:29Z Guest14626 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T20:56:20Z orbiting joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:56:58Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:57:24Z Guest14626 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T20:58:23Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T21:06:07Z MrWoohoo2 quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2016-01-09T21:09:38Z rural quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T21:19:03Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-09T21:19:58Z jlongster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T21:20:15Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T21:20:24Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-09T21:25:40Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-09T21:27:35Z ekinmur quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-09T21:30:16Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T21:31:25Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T21:33:13Z kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-09T21:36:15Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-09T21:36:24Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T21:38:56Z Tordek quit (Quit: brb)
2016-01-09T21:39:31Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-09T21:39:35Z Tordek joined #lisp
2016-01-09T21:42:49Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T21:44:36Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-09T21:48:53Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T21:53:41Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-09T21:59:52Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:04:36Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-09T22:05:46Z warweasle quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ))
2016-01-09T22:08:05Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:12:31Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-09T22:13:26Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:15:13Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T22:16:35Z ryan_vw_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T22:18:06Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-09T22:18:28Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:18:46Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:21:01Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:26:52Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:28:59Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-09T22:31:29Z dto quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T22:32:38Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:33:22Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-09T22:48:08Z sysfault joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:48:28Z tclamb joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:54:53Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-09T22:55:06Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-09T23:11:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-09T23:14:30Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-09T23:16:08Z cyraxjoe_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T23:17:41Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-09T23:24:34Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-09T23:27:57Z sysfault quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T23:30:30Z salut321 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T23:30:36Z salut321 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-09T23:32:41Z Guest14626 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-09T23:32:42Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-09T23:35:59Z Guest14626 joined #lisp
2016-01-09T23:36:00Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-09T23:37:11Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-09T23:38:04Z hkian joined #lisp
2016-01-09T23:39:42Z hkian: Anyone have experience with LFE? I'm an experienced CL programmer, but I want to use Erlang for a new project. Was thinking about perhaps leverage LFE so that I wouldn't have to give up my parens.
2016-01-09T23:41:23Z hkian: I know CL has some actor libraries, etc, but I really need the high fault tolerance of Erlang/OTP. It's a backend for reading from a LARGE number of field sensors.
2016-01-09T23:49:20Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-09T23:53:11Z mordocai: hkian: Unfortunately i don't know LFE and LFE is off topic here due to the channel being CL only.
2016-01-09T23:53:19Z mordocai: So you might not get an answer
2016-01-09T23:53:24Z sweater_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T23:53:36Z orbiting quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-09T23:53:37Z Guest14626 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-09T23:53:37Z hkian: For sure. Just thought I'd ask
2016-01-09T23:57:52Z dfcat quit (Quit: ceeya)
2016-01-09T23:58:51Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:01:27Z hkian: Anyone know if there's a way to directly inject JS symbols in Parenscript? It's kinda annoying to hafta do things like (ps (new -foo)) to get "new Foo();". I find myself often having to change my readtable just to work with Parenscript.
2016-01-10T00:03:13Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-10T00:03:49Z hkian: I find Parenscript is like 80% adequate for my needs, but I have to fight it for that last 20%. Especially if I want to leverage ES6/7.
2016-01-10T00:05:38Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:08:13Z hkian: Kinda makes me wanna write a replacement for Parenscript. I've already got too many side projects tho!
2016-01-10T00:08:50Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:10:27Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:13:28Z chishiki1 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-10T00:13:37Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T00:14:11Z chishiki joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:14:53Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T00:16:01Z Bike: manual says -foo is what you're supposed to do to get Foo. I'm not sure that |Foo| or whatever would be much of an improvement...
2016-01-10T00:17:28Z moore33 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-10T00:19:30Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:19:51Z hkian: Yeah, I'm aware of that. However, I want to be able to do something like (ps:ps (ps:new (ps:js-sym "Foo")))
2016-01-10T00:21:14Z hkian: If you're trying to interact with code that follows different capitalization conventions with WeirdSYMsLikeTHis then you find yourself doing things like -weird-s-y-m-s-like-t-his that can hurt readability
2016-01-10T00:21:47Z Bike: yeah, i see what you mean.
2016-01-10T00:22:09Z hkian: I might just write a read macro that will take a string and spit out the correct mangled PS symbol
2016-01-10T00:22:17Z Bike: if i'm understanding parenscript correctly, that might best be done through... that.
2016-01-10T00:23:00Z hkian: PS doesn't have a JS-SYM or any mechanism for directly injecting symbols, AFAIK
2016-01-10T00:23:41Z Bike: i'm not s ure if having it as a function/special form would even be possible with how this seems to work.
2016-01-10T00:24:05Z hkian: Yeah you'd have to hack Parenscript
2016-01-10T00:24:14Z hkian: And modify it quite extensively to support that
2016-01-10T00:24:45Z hkian: Might just be easier to do #js"WeirdSYM" => -weird-s-y-m
2016-01-10T00:24:54Z Bike: indeed.
2016-01-10T00:25:26Z Zhivago: Why not just |Foo|?
2016-01-10T00:27:12Z Bike: ...oh, the js symbol conversion stuff is only applied if the symbol's all uppercase or starts with a symbol. doy.
2016-01-10T00:28:45Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-10T00:31:50Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T00:33:35Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T00:34:10Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T00:34:46Z hkian: Zhivago: That works, but not for everything.
2016-01-10T00:36:34Z Bike: what wouldn't it work for?
2016-01-10T00:39:30Z hkian: |DOM|
2016-01-10T00:39:44Z hkian: IIRC
2016-01-10T00:39:50Z hkian: Don't have my lisp env on hand
2016-01-10T00:40:34Z Bike: because it would get interpreted by parenscript? don't you just do *dom* or something?
2016-01-10T00:40:59Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:41:47Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:44:19Z krypt quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-10T00:48:06Z janky joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:48:21Z ipmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:49:25Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:49:49Z sweater is now known as Guest61066
2016-01-10T00:50:22Z hkian: Yes, you'd have to use *dom*
2016-01-10T00:50:49Z hkian: Now try something like ReactDOM
2016-01-10T00:51:00Z hkian: You'd have to do -react-d-o-m
2016-01-10T00:51:25Z Bike: |ReactDOM| should work.
2016-01-10T00:52:34Z janky: I wrote a function to process files, and i'm trying to figure out where some error handling code should live.   right now, if I want to process a series of files and my function runs into some kind of error, I'd like to simply skip that file and come back to it.  the concept of skipping a file seems to depend on some understanding that we are looping through a list of files
2016-01-10T00:54:00Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-10T00:57:42Z broken_clock joined #lisp
2016-01-10T00:58:00Z |3b|: janky: not really, it is just as useful to skip a single file
2016-01-10T00:58:16Z |3b|: for example loading an optional config file or something
2016-01-10T00:58:37Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:01:22Z |3b|: though with CL condition system, you can split it into layers, and have the inner part provide options like skipping rest of file, or returning a specific value instead of what would have been read from file, or whatever, and then outer part can decide which is appropriate for a particular use
2016-01-10T01:05:51Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T01:05:55Z |3b|: then the loop could add options like skipping the rest of the list, skipping that file, wait then retry, etc
2016-01-10T01:11:40Z janky: hmm. ok thanks, I'll look into it in more detail
2016-01-10T01:12:06Z ryan_vw_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:13:26Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T01:15:24Z karbak joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:15:28Z zacharias quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T01:15:43Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:16:44Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T01:17:03Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:17:44Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T01:18:38Z ryan_vw_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T01:20:35Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T01:21:47Z hkian: Ah you're right. It |symbol| works for mixed case
2016-01-10T01:21:59Z hkian: But not for single case
2016-01-10T01:22:27Z hkian: So that |DOM| is always rendered "dom" but |fooDOM| => "fooDOM"
2016-01-10T01:24:09Z ryan_vw_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:25:24Z hkian left #lisp
2016-01-10T01:26:14Z raphaelss joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:26:24Z hkian joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:26:29Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-10T01:26:56Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T01:27:23Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:28:25Z Zhivago: I predict that it is that all upper-case that is catching the default behaviour.
2016-01-10T01:28:59Z hkian: That would make sense
2016-01-10T01:30:04Z Zhivago: Having an option to turn off that magic might be the simplest approach.
2016-01-10T01:30:08Z hkian: I've never bothered to get my mind around READTABLE-CASE stuff. Mostly because the casing of symbols never made any difference to me. However, it becomes necessary when doing stuff with ParenScript
2016-01-10T01:30:12Z hkian: There is
2016-01-10T01:30:43Z hkian: (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) :invert)
2016-01-10T01:31:02Z Zhivago: I mean the parenscript magic.
2016-01-10T01:31:19Z hkian: Ah yes. That's what I was talking about earlier.
2016-01-10T01:31:33Z hkian: I wish I could just directly inject a JS symbol
2016-01-10T01:32:10Z hkian: Something like (ps:js-sym "MySymBOL")
2016-01-10T01:32:46Z hkian: It's not THAT big of a deal. I'd rather have ES6/7 support before that.
2016-01-10T01:33:12Z |3b|: i think it does some variable renaming to get lexical scope, so injecting raw symbols would be risky
2016-01-10T01:33:24Z hkian: True
2016-01-10T01:34:18Z hkian: I have a PS REPL that runs on NodeJs inside of SBCL.
2016-01-10T01:34:25Z hkian: That I've been playing with
2016-01-10T01:34:40Z hkian: So I'm pretty new to PS and messing around with it
2016-01-10T01:34:42Z |3b| would probably just add an option to override the automatic translation for specific symbols, so you could specify once that my-symbol is "MySymBOL" rather than typing |MySymBOL| every time
2016-01-10T01:35:02Z hkian: |3b| that seems reasonable
2016-01-10T01:35:16Z hkian: https://github.com/helmutkian/cl-node
2016-01-10T01:35:22Z hkian: That's something I've been working on
2016-01-10T01:35:46Z hkian: Embeds NodeJs within a CL runtime
2016-01-10T01:36:24Z hkian: Still very rough. But I have been able to get an HTTP server running in NodeJs with the route handlers written in CL.
2016-01-10T01:36:53Z hkian: It's mostly for doing server-side rendering of React -- that was the original use case
2016-01-10T01:39:07Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:39:30Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T01:40:19Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T01:43:42Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:46:52Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T01:47:24Z Zhivago: Why embed rather than communicate?
2016-01-10T01:48:15Z hkian: Because, why not?
2016-01-10T01:48:41Z Zhivago: Because of not having complicated and unusual failure cases due to being unable to manage resources such as memory properly?
2016-01-10T01:49:18Z hkian: Yes, memory management becomes an issue
2016-01-10T01:49:40Z hkian: It's much easier & safer to just communicate over a socket
2016-01-10T01:49:40Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:49:41Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-10T01:50:46Z hkian: But it's more fun to hack together a franken CL/Node environment
2016-01-10T01:52:46Z hkian: I've used EdgeJs in production. Which is a similar project for Node and .NET . There were many, many, many headaches.
2016-01-10T01:54:42Z Guest61066 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T01:55:27Z hkian: But it's interesting to expose state between two run times. You can't share state thru communication. Which safer, yes. But if you're manipulating LARGE objects, it can be problematic to serialize/deserialize constantly
2016-01-10T01:56:26Z hkian: *which is safer
2016-01-10T01:59:17Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-10T02:00:15Z baboon` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T02:01:24Z jchmrt quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T02:03:53Z jchmrt joined #lisp
2016-01-10T02:04:10Z yuankode quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.50.1))
2016-01-10T02:06:41Z |3b|: just put all your state in a third process :)
2016-01-10T02:07:00Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T02:07:28Z hkian: |3b|: How does that do it?
2016-01-10T02:07:45Z hkian: By do it, I mean expose state to both runtimes?
2016-01-10T02:08:54Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-10T02:09:51Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-10T02:11:49Z |3b|: database is a common way
2016-01-10T02:11:55Z phoe_krk: (defun make-board () (make-list 5 :initial-element (make-list 5 :initial-element :_))) <- that makes the generated lists share structure, which isn't what I want.
2016-01-10T02:12:15Z hkian: |3b| I get what you're saying
2016-01-10T02:12:22Z |3b|: (though admittedly not appropriate for everything)
2016-01-10T02:12:24Z phoe_krk: How can I generate fresh lists, so (setf (third (first (make-board))) :X) changes only one element, not five?
2016-01-10T02:12:59Z |3b|: (loop repeat 5 collect (make-list 5 ...))?
2016-01-10T02:13:15Z phoe_krk: Ooh, thanks.
2016-01-10T02:14:55Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T02:15:50Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T02:17:30Z yrdz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T02:17:44Z yrdz` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T02:19:16Z yrdz` is now known as yrdz
2016-01-10T02:19:40Z yrdz quit (Changing host)
2016-01-10T02:19:40Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-10T02:22:02Z yrdz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T02:22:07Z hkian: Take it easy, all. It's time for me to actually go out into the world!
2016-01-10T02:22:12Z hkian left #lisp
2016-01-10T02:22:33Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-10T02:28:08Z Wizek quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T02:39:57Z phoe_krk: What's the equivalent of for (int i; ...) for (int j; ...) {...} in Lisp's iter?
2016-01-10T02:40:17Z phoe_krk: Because (iter (for j ...) (iter (for k ...) (things))) doesn't work as I think it would.
2016-01-10T02:40:49Z phoe_krk: Namely, returning from the inner iter doesn't stop the outer iter.
2016-01-10T02:42:53Z Bike: Stop? It wouldn't in C either.
2016-01-10T02:43:18Z Bike: Wait, do you mean just cl:return? iter probably establishes a NIL block.
2016-01-10T02:43:45Z blub: you'd need a specific block and a return-from i think
2016-01-10T02:43:50Z blub: the same way you'd use a label and a goto in c
2016-01-10T02:44:07Z phoe_krk: Yes, cl:return.
2016-01-10T02:44:24Z Bike: that's roughly like C break, in this case. so it only breaks out of the inner loop.
2016-01-10T02:44:35Z phoe_krk: I see.
2016-01-10T02:44:42Z Bike: But you can probably establish a named block with iter. if not you can just do (block foo (iter ... (return-from foo ...)))
2016-01-10T02:45:03Z Bike: https://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Named-Blocks.html#Named-Blocks yeah, there you go.
2016-01-10T02:45:17Z Bike: ft. your exact use case~
2016-01-10T02:46:03Z phoe_krk: yessss, it works.
2016-01-10T02:46:04Z phoe_krk: thanks <3
2016-01-10T02:51:12Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T02:53:18Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-10T02:53:39Z aap joined #lisp
2016-01-10T02:55:59Z nicdev joined #lisp
2016-01-10T02:56:33Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T02:57:02Z aap_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T03:15:45Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-10T03:29:25Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-10T03:32:25Z janky quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-10T03:32:33Z broken_clock quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-10T03:35:31Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-10T03:37:26Z myrkraverk: When printing strings, with FORMAT, is there something better than ~A ?
2016-01-10T03:37:38Z blub: better how
2016-01-10T03:37:40Z Bike: Please describe "better than" in more detail
2016-01-10T03:38:24Z myrkraverk: Well, in this case, I'm writing an example code, so I was wondering of there is a better (for some value of better) format code.
2016-01-10T03:38:51Z Bike: That doesn't help.
2016-01-10T03:39:09Z myrkraverk: Hmm.
2016-01-10T03:39:14Z Bike: I mean there are plenty of format directives. Many of them could in some situation be more useful than ~a.
2016-01-10T03:39:22Z Bike: That's vacuous.
2016-01-10T03:39:31Z myrkraverk: If you're printing lines from a text file?
2016-01-10T03:40:25Z Bike: Depends on how you want to print those lines.
2016-01-10T03:40:54Z myrkraverk: Well, in my example, it looks ok.
2016-01-10T03:41:05Z blub: can i see your example
2016-01-10T03:41:16Z |3b|: if you don't want it to be READable, or to act like WRITE, or to have case conversion, ~a is probably a reasonable choice
2016-01-10T03:41:39Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T03:42:45Z myrkraverk: blub: soon enough, I'm working on a blog.
2016-01-10T03:43:03Z myrkraverk: |3b|: ok, I'll stick with ~a for now then.
2016-01-10T03:43:27Z blub: i meant to see if i would use ~a
2016-01-10T03:44:04Z myrkraverk: blub: Hmm.
2016-01-10T03:47:22Z myrkraverk: http://paste.lisp.org/+6J8E
2016-01-10T03:48:20Z myrkraverk: I know the context doesn't explain the error-flag, but that should be irrelevant.
2016-01-10T03:49:10Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T03:55:45Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T03:57:42Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-10T03:58:35Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T04:00:06Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:02:12Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:04:15Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T04:06:40Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:11:06Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T04:12:42Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:13:18Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:13:36Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:15:37Z lonekswolf joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:17:35Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T04:21:26Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:25:51Z SAL9000: Is there an existing library for making "lockable" CLOS classes? I'm writing a Lispy wrapper for a C library which is not thread-safe.
2016-01-10T04:27:38Z dogfood joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:27:48Z dogfood is now known as zch
2016-01-10T04:31:04Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-10T04:32:40Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T04:33:29Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:34:27Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T04:35:14Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:38:47Z phoe_krk: SAL9000: "lockable"?
2016-01-10T04:39:48Z SAL9000: phoe_krk: locks as in the synchronization primitives
2016-01-10T04:40:02Z phoe_krk: SAL9000: bordeaux-threads?
2016-01-10T04:40:07Z phoe_krk: it has locks built in
2016-01-10T04:40:33Z mordocai: Also cross implementation threading things!
2016-01-10T04:40:38Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-10T04:40:40Z phoe_krk: locks as in mutex locks
2016-01-10T04:40:50Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T04:40:55Z SAL9000: it does, yes -- the question is whether there is some macrology out there to automatically wrap slots etc. of a CLOS class with, say, readers-writer locks.
2016-01-10T04:40:58Z Bike: using actual locks might be overcomplex sometimes. like, in sbcl you can CAS standard slots, so you could make atomic updates based on that.
2016-01-10T04:41:24Z Bike: but no, i don't know of a library for that.
2016-01-10T04:41:48Z mordocai: I saw a work in progress library that had cross platform CAS but it looked dead
2016-01-10T04:41:48Z SAL9000: and unless I can CAS SAPs, I'd still need mutexes for those
2016-01-10T04:42:02Z mordocai: cross implementation*
2016-01-10T04:42:20Z Bike: what do SAPs have to do with CLOS?
2016-01-10T04:42:41Z SAL9000: 14:55:51 <SAL9000> [...] I'm writing a Lispy wrapper for a C library which is not thread-safe.
2016-01-10T04:44:00Z Bike: oh, right. still, that would be out of scope for a library just providing pseudoatomic slot access
2016-01-10T04:44:31Z SAL9000: Well, I'd say "wrap methods", but I'm pretty sure that doesn't make sense with CLOS like it does with "classic" OO
2016-01-10T04:45:28Z Bike: What's a wrap method?
2016-01-10T04:45:41Z SAL9000: "wrap" is meant as a verb
2016-01-10T04:47:46Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T04:47:47Z mordocai: What does "SAP" stand for in the context btw?
2016-01-10T04:47:58Z Bike: system area pointer
2016-01-10T04:48:01Z SAL9000: System Area Pointer. SBCL-specific term for foreign pointers
2016-01-10T04:48:21Z mordocai: Ah okay
2016-01-10T04:48:34Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:48:38Z mordocai: I'm pretty new but would clos's :around, :after, :before stuff for methods help at all?
2016-01-10T04:49:28Z phoe_krk: I believe they could!
2016-01-10T04:49:35Z phoe_krk: :before make-lock
2016-01-10T04:49:39Z phoe_krk: :after unmake-lock
2016-01-10T04:50:30Z SAL9000: hmm... anything in the MOP which would allow discovery of all methods specialized on a given class?
2016-01-10T04:51:14Z Bike: mop specializer-d-m
2016-01-10T04:51:14Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for specializer-d-m.
2016-01-10T04:51:22Z Bike: mop specializer-direct-methods
2016-01-10T04:51:22Z specbot: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/specializer-direct-methods.html
2016-01-10T04:51:41Z Bike: I think that would work.
2016-01-10T04:52:11Z Bike: I don't know how the automatic definition of accessors would go, though. Whether you could do that in MOP or if you'd need a fancier macro, i mean.
2016-01-10T04:53:23Z SAL9000: How do I get a specializer metaobject? (closer-mop:specializer) is undefined
2016-01-10T04:53:36Z Bike: classes are specializers, iirc
2016-01-10T04:54:00Z Bike: mop ensure-class
2016-01-10T04:54:00Z specbot: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/ensure-class.html
2016-01-10T04:54:08Z SAL9000: that works, thanks
2016-01-10T04:55:34Z Bike: ...huh, I think it's make-instance that's s upposed to define accessor methods?
2016-01-10T04:56:41Z Bike: minion: memo for beach: i know you have a lot on your plate, but it would be nice if the MOP pages had links to the TOC etc.
2016-01-10T04:56:41Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-10T04:56:51Z resttime: Bit related, I like looking at this this documentation for MOP: http://www.crategus.com/books/closer-mop/
2016-01-10T04:57:07Z resttime: Er, C2MOP that is.
2016-01-10T04:57:24Z Heranort_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T04:57:51Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T04:58:03Z mordocai: It is stuff like SAL9000 being able to do this that remind me why common lisp is awesome every day
2016-01-10T04:58:15Z SAL9000: :-)
2016-01-10T04:59:30Z SAL9000: in case someone else wants to do something like this: the following gets me a list of symbols, which could then be used to define :around methods for locks: (map 'slot-definition-readers (map 'accessor-method-slot-definition (specializer-direct-methods (ensure-class 'class))))
2016-01-10T05:00:25Z Bike: welp. i have no idea when readers are actually defined.
2016-01-10T05:02:11Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T05:02:25Z Bike: somewhere in make-instance, i guess.
2016-01-10T05:03:45Z Bike: ...doing this through MOP might be a pain.
2016-01-10T05:04:00Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-10T05:04:29Z Bike: no, wait, so you could define a metaclass bla bla bla, and then put an :after method on probably shared initialize to add an :around method to all the readers and writers to handle lock shit.
2016-01-10T05:06:06Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T05:07:10Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T05:07:22Z SAL9000: yeah, I'm looking at metaclasses and method-classes. Can't find any docs on them, though.
2016-01-10T05:08:29Z Bike: well basically what you do is (defclass locked-class (standard-class) ...), specify (:metaclass locked-class) in classes you want to be locked, and then define a bunch of methods on stuff
2016-01-10T05:09:55Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-10T05:10:27Z SAL9000: can a locked-class class inherit from a standard-class class?
2016-01-10T05:10:40Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T05:11:06Z Bike: oh, yes, that's the thing i always forget. you have to define a method on... something... but once you do, yes, it can.
2016-01-10T05:11:09Z PuercoPop: SAL9000: you define that through validate-superclass
2016-01-10T05:11:17Z Bike: yeah that one.
2016-01-10T05:12:32Z PuercoPop: so if you want to prohibit locked-class to inherit from standard-class you do (defmethod validate-superclass ((class locked-class) (super standard-cass)) nil)
2016-01-10T05:12:43Z PuercoPop: replace nil with t if you want to allow it
2016-01-10T05:13:17Z SAL9000: makes sense. I'm using simple-finalizers, so I guess I should allow locked-class'es to inherit from standard-class'es
2016-01-10T05:13:32Z PuercoPop: and swap locked-class and standard-class to specify the other direction of inheritance
2016-01-10T05:16:52Z SAL9000: Thanks for all the help! :)
2016-01-10T05:21:45Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T05:24:50Z SAL9000: Is there any existing library implementing readers-writer mutexes?
2016-01-10T05:26:24Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-10T05:27:01Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-10T05:27:08Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-10T05:27:08Z minion: beach, memo from Bike: i know you have a lot on your plate, but it would be nice if the MOP pages had links to the TOC etc.
2016-01-10T05:27:45Z beach: Yes, good point.
2016-01-10T05:27:50Z Bike: top o' the generalized mornin' to ya
2016-01-10T05:27:50Z PuercoPop: SAL9000: iirc the Sonya Keene uses locks as a use case in CLOS, but no library that I know of
2016-01-10T05:35:00Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-10T05:40:46Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-10T05:44:24Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-10T05:45:56Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T05:46:42Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-10T05:50:14Z |3b|: rather than a locked-class, don't you want locked-gf? not sure a class could affect arbitrary methods that happen to specialize on it
2016-01-10T05:51:08Z Bike: well, having locked accessors easily would be nice. i guess you could do slot values too...
2016-01-10T05:52:34Z |3b| suspects i'd prefer explicit locking anyway though, single lock isn't always what you want
2016-01-10T05:53:22Z |3b|: but i guess depends on the c lib and how it is thread-unsafe
2016-01-10T05:53:51Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T05:55:25Z zch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T05:57:37Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-10T05:57:56Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:04:19Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:05:41Z moei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T06:06:12Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:07:30Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:08:06Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:12:42Z beach: Bike: Something like this: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/initialization-of-method-metaobjects.html
2016-01-10T06:12:47Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T06:13:01Z Bike: yeah, great.
2016-01-10T06:13:11Z beach: OK, I'll work on that.
2016-01-10T06:14:02Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:15:37Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:16:58Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:20:12Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:20:18Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:21:54Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:22:25Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T06:23:14Z cpc26_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:23:42Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T06:32:19Z blub quit (Quit: bye)
2016-01-10T06:33:45Z mordocai: Is there a built in sign function https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_function or do I need to write it? I specifically want the "return -1 0 or 1" behavior.
2016-01-10T06:34:10Z Bike: clhs signum
2016-01-10T06:34:10Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_signum.htm
2016-01-10T06:34:53Z mordocai: Ah wasn't finding that with searches thanks
2016-01-10T06:37:54Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T06:47:59Z beach: Bike: How about something like this for the generic functions: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-direct-subclasses.html ?
2016-01-10T06:48:32Z Bike: with the methods? wasn't it already like that?
2016-01-10T06:48:51Z beach: No.  There was no title and no links.
2016-01-10T06:49:07Z beach: Like this: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-direct-superclasses.html
2016-01-10T06:50:05Z Bike: oh, you meant on top. yeah, seems good.
2016-01-10T06:50:53Z blt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T06:53:59Z anmeng joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:55:53Z anmeng left #lisp
2016-01-10T06:56:10Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:57:09Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-10T06:59:44Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-10T07:00:17Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:05:22Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:05:30Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-10T07:12:24Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:12:35Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T07:15:05Z jaykru_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:17:50Z jaykru_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T07:19:43Z phax left #lisp
2016-01-10T07:24:45Z ipmonger_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:26:55Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T07:26:57Z jasom: I love unhandled memory faults with no backtrace; super easy to debug!
2016-01-10T07:27:14Z ipmonger quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-10T07:27:15Z ipmonger_ is now known as ipmonger
2016-01-10T07:30:25Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-10T07:31:58Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:32:57Z moore33: beach: good morning
2016-01-10T07:33:49Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:34:39Z beach: Hello moore33
2016-01-10T07:37:39Z moore33: I stole define-protocol-class from McClim for LPSG. I changed it a bit to define generic functions instead of slot definitions.
2016-01-10T07:37:49Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:39:02Z arrdem joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:39:26Z arrdem quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-10T07:39:56Z arrdem joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:43:33Z beach: moore33: OK.  It's not a big macro is it?
2016-01-10T07:44:30Z moore33: beach: no, and I wrote it originally as far as I can tell :)
2016-01-10T07:45:22Z beach: Oh, OK. :)
2016-01-10T07:45:38Z arrdem quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-10T07:45:44Z moore33: The default method combination is really pretty amazing in terms of picking apart a protocol and splitting up the responsibilitie logically.
2016-01-10T07:45:52Z arrdem joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:46:01Z moore33: Responsibilities
2016-01-10T07:46:07Z moore33: Damn tablet
2016-01-10T07:50:06Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2016-01-10T07:50:19Z beach: Yes, I remember when I taught it in The Land of the Long White Cloud.  The students knew Java and they were perfectly willing to break all client code by modifying the protocol.  With the standard method combination, there is no need.  Just introduce an :AROUND method.
2016-01-10T07:50:23Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:54:04Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-10T07:57:23Z moore33: Gotta go running. Bbl.
2016-01-10T07:58:52Z moore33 quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-10T08:05:08Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T08:10:00Z mea-culp` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:10:23Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T08:11:32Z mea-culpa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T08:12:46Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T08:13:43Z [6502] joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:15:13Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T08:16:17Z [6502] quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-10T08:16:24Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:17:34Z huza joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:18:01Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:20:20Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T08:23:07Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:28:32Z streamOfConsciou joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:36:55Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:38:49Z resttime quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T08:41:00Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:44:08Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:46:43Z oleo_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T08:47:32Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:48:15Z zyoe2y joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:49:20Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:50:00Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T08:51:40Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T08:53:32Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:55:10Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T08:55:37Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-10T08:59:55Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T09:00:24Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:00:26Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T09:04:53Z streamOfConsciou quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-10T09:12:18Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:15:06Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:15:35Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:18:17Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:23:03Z lonekswolf quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T09:23:31Z lonekswolf joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:23:45Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-10T09:24:04Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T09:24:27Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-10T09:28:50Z lonekswolf quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-10T09:29:50Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:32:17Z m_zr0_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:35:44Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T09:35:50Z m_zr0 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T09:37:25Z streamOfConsciou joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:41:03Z huza quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T09:45:09Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:45:22Z kazlock quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T09:45:54Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T09:48:28Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T09:48:38Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:49:30Z cyraxjoe_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T09:51:50Z GGMethos quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T09:56:42Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:58:20Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T09:59:45Z synchromesh: beach: I remember meeting you and your spouse in Wellington at a presentation Geoff Cant had organised (IIRC).
2016-01-10T10:00:11Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T10:01:30Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:02:58Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T10:04:32Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-10T10:06:11Z mea-culp` is now known as mea-culpa
2016-01-10T10:08:10Z beach: synchromesh: Oh, interesting!
2016-01-10T10:08:22Z beach: Yes, sounds very plausible.
2016-01-10T10:09:25Z Wizek joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:09:45Z beach: Are you still in Aotearoa?
2016-01-10T10:11:39Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:11:55Z urandom__ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:14:18Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:15:22Z beach suspects NZCLUG no longer exists. :(
2016-01-10T10:15:46Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T10:16:52Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T10:17:21Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:18:16Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:18:52Z streamOfConsciou quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-10T10:19:59Z GGMethos joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:22:28Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T10:22:44Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T10:24:00Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T10:24:13Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-10T10:24:41Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:29:27Z synchromesh: beach: No, I'm living in England now. Still using CL professionally (or at least for money) though. And I think you're right about NZCLUG.
2016-01-10T10:30:08Z shka quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-10T10:30:23Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:34:55Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T10:35:07Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:35:40Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:40:38Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:47:05Z blt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-10T10:57:23Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T10:58:18Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-10T10:59:02Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T11:00:49Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:04:47Z shka_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T11:05:10Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:05:34Z Octothorpe joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:05:55Z raphaelss quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T11:05:58Z Octothorpe is now known as Guest19837
2016-01-10T11:06:51Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:08:20Z cabaire quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T11:10:28Z Guest19837 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T11:10:35Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:13:24Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:14:38Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:15:53Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:16:35Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:16:46Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T11:20:11Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:21:12Z Th30n_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:21:13Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:21:58Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:23:44Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T11:23:50Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:24:04Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:24:35Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T11:24:47Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T11:30:35Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-10T11:33:29Z Th30n_ is now known as Th30n
2016-01-10T11:35:27Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T11:35:50Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:44:06Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T11:44:45Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:48:47Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:50:12Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:50:37Z sweater is now known as Guest77556
2016-01-10T11:51:31Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T11:54:45Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T11:55:19Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-10T11:56:50Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-10T12:00:18Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:01:17Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:01:54Z futpib quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T12:05:09Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-10T12:06:21Z mea-culpa quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-10T12:06:53Z Lord_Quimby joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:06:59Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:08:02Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T12:08:35Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T12:10:40Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:10:50Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T12:13:19Z zyoe2y quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T12:13:32Z zyoe2y joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:14:35Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T12:16:31Z zyoe2y quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T12:16:47Z zyoe2y joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:20:05Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:21:28Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:24:48Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T12:25:19Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T12:26:15Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:26:17Z zyoe2y quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T12:26:31Z zyoe2y joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:29:29Z zyoe2y quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T12:29:42Z zyoe2y joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:29:45Z Jonsky joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:32:07Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:33:39Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T12:34:56Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:35:45Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T12:38:03Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T12:39:06Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:39:47Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T12:40:02Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T12:42:58Z jchmrt quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-10T12:43:59Z jchmrt joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:44:06Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T12:44:19Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:49:10Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T12:50:00Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:53:30Z CharlesN joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:54:33Z fsl joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:55:41Z malice joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:57:18Z grublet joined #lisp
2016-01-10T12:58:50Z zyoe2y quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T13:00:06Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:00:27Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:00:38Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:01:16Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:02:40Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:06:12Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T13:06:25Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T13:06:50Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:08:00Z malice: Hello! I've been trying to write small utility - sandbox package(the place where you can go, check something and go back without polluting previous namespace)
2016-01-10T13:08:13Z malice: However, I got a small problem; First of all, here's my code: https://github.com/MatthewRock/cl-sandbox/blob/master/sandbox.lisp
2016-01-10T13:08:30Z malice: I start it with #'sandbox:start, then end with #'sandbox:exit
2016-01-10T13:08:46Z malice: after exiting, when I press enter or just do anything for REPL to advance, I get an error message:
2016-01-10T13:09:00Z malice: "Help! 11 nested errors.SB-KERNEL:*MAXIMUM-ERROR-DEPTH* exceeded."
2016-01-10T13:09:26Z malice: It also says something about backtrace, but I can't see it; I'm running SLIME connected to external lisp process(with slime-connect)
2016-01-10T13:09:47Z malice: 11 errors sound bad; I'd like to fix it, but I don't even know what error is this
2016-01-10T13:10:14Z fsl left #lisp
2016-01-10T13:11:10Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T13:11:37Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:12:48Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T13:12:48Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:13:42Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:13:56Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:17:06Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T13:17:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-10T13:17:33Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:17:51Z |3b|: malice: usually that means there was an error when it tried to print your error
2016-01-10T13:18:15Z |3b|: malice: for example a bad print-object method on something in the backtrace
2016-01-10T13:20:11Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:20:44Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T13:21:23Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:23:54Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:24:52Z malice: hmm
2016-01-10T13:25:20Z malice: |3b|: any idea what could be causing the bug? Previously I've had no problems(except for SLIME, which should be fixed now)
2016-01-10T13:25:32Z |3b| 's best guess is *package gets into a bad state somehow, might try printing that in EXIT before restoring it
2016-01-10T13:25:53Z |3b| doesn't see anything obviouslyt wrong though
2016-01-10T13:26:39Z malice: The code worked just fine before
2016-01-10T13:27:00Z malice: Well, thanks for help :)
2016-01-10T13:27:24Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:28:27Z vlatkoB quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-10T13:28:32Z grublet joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:28:49Z |3b|: or a *debugger-hook* that sets *PACKAGE* to cl-user or something safe and with-standard-io-syntax before calling debugger
2016-01-10T13:28:56Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:32:55Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:34:39Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T13:35:09Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:36:44Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:36:44Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-10T13:36:44Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:38:19Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T13:40:39Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:41:48Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T13:47:41Z j0ni quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T13:48:21Z j0ni joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:50:38Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:52:00Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:53:15Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T13:53:46Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:55:11Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-10T13:56:07Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T13:56:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T13:56:58Z Guest77556 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T13:57:55Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T13:59:37Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:01:49Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:02:28Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-10T14:02:33Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T14:02:40Z cabaire quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-10T14:05:15Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T14:07:27Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:07:28Z eni joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:10:30Z Guest77556 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:11:17Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T14:13:15Z eni quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-10T14:13:26Z MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz
2016-01-10T14:22:12Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:22:12Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:25:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T14:25:45Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:26:12Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:26:24Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:26:33Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T14:26:37Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:26:58Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:29:31Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-10T14:29:53Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:29:54Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T14:30:42Z synchromesh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T14:33:55Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-10T14:36:04Z samebcha1e is now known as samebchase
2016-01-10T14:37:20Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T14:38:48Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:39:59Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T14:41:34Z psy__ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:41:46Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T14:42:11Z psy__ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-10T14:42:39Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:42:39Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-10T14:42:39Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:42:58Z psy__ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:46:42Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-10T14:49:03Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:51:54Z monod joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:56:02Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T14:56:17Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T14:56:55Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-10T14:59:19Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:01:46Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:01:48Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:02:02Z ozzloy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T15:03:55Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:06:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T15:08:45Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T15:10:11Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:17:03Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:17:32Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T15:17:52Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:18:03Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:18:30Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:21:54Z moore33 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T15:21:55Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T15:23:06Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T15:23:39Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:23:56Z |3b|` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:24:04Z |3b| quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T15:28:00Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:30:48Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:30:52Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T15:32:05Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T15:33:51Z ddispat joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:33:54Z |3b|`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:33:54Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T15:34:02Z ddispat left #lisp
2016-01-10T15:34:05Z |3b|` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T15:34:32Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:34:42Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:38:48Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T15:42:31Z monod quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
2016-01-10T15:44:01Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:44:55Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:48:16Z malice: How can I check if something is a function, a macro, or a special operator?
2016-01-10T15:50:29Z malice: e.g. I want to check what #'lambda is.
2016-01-10T15:52:12Z malice: Also, do I need to quote lambda now? I've read that it is possible that lambda is a macro which in fact returns (function (lambda ...))
2016-01-10T15:52:35Z malice: So if I write a function which returns lambda expressions, do I need to return (lambda...) or #'(lambda..>)
2016-01-10T15:52:36Z malice: ?
2016-01-10T15:53:06Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T15:53:42Z mtl: malice: both will work
2016-01-10T15:54:40Z mtl: personally I never use #' with lambda, but this is merely a matter of style
2016-01-10T15:55:26Z malice: mtl: thanks.
2016-01-10T15:55:39Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-10T15:59:20Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T16:00:20Z skali_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:02:03Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:03:00Z skali_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-10T16:03:37Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:04:32Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T16:04:32Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-10T16:05:14Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-10T16:05:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:08:06Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-10T16:08:49Z [1]cnb joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:09:07Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T16:09:44Z CharlesN quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-10T16:10:56Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:12:01Z bangubangu joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:12:20Z bangubangu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T16:14:58Z jsgrant quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T16:21:02Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:22:35Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:23:11Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T16:25:24Z fmeyer joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:27:19Z fmeyer quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-10T16:27:37Z eni joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:27:59Z fmeyer joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:27:59Z hiroakip quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-10T16:29:20Z fmeyer quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-10T16:32:58Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T16:33:13Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:33:49Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-10T16:34:54Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:38:18Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T16:39:25Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-10T16:45:02Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:50:02Z dim: if anyone is good at CFFI, I would appreciate any hints/help on that: https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/issues/226
2016-01-10T16:50:18Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:53:50Z [2]cnb joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:53:55Z fe[nl]ix: dim: that means the FFI didn't find a global symbol named SSL_get_version
2016-01-10T16:54:00Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:54:28Z fe[nl]ix: so either libssl.so wasn't loaded or it was loaded but doesn't export that symbol, or it doesn't have it at all
2016-01-10T16:55:48Z dim: how can this happen to some people and not me (either in macosx or debian)?
2016-01-10T16:56:35Z [1]cnb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T16:58:36Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-10T16:58:47Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-10T16:58:48Z [2]cnb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T16:58:51Z contrapunctus: o/
2016-01-10T17:01:05Z contrapunctus: I'm trying to read characters without requiring Enter to be hit to accept the input. read-char on SBCL 1.3.0.debian doesn't seem to behave that way. Is the solution still what is given here, or has something new come up in the meantime? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20276738/reading-a-character-without-requiring-the-enter-button-pressed
2016-01-10T17:03:16Z krypt joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:04:15Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:04:19Z RealityVoid joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:06:23Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:06:36Z HardWall quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T17:16:07Z fe[nl]ix: dim: they may be loading an incorrect libssl.so
2016-01-10T17:17:51Z dim: how can I figure that out? is there some logging code I should add for that? how do I get the pathname of the loaded .so after the fact, say?
2016-01-10T17:18:17Z fe[nl]ix: dim: I would suggest that instead of loading libssl in lisp, you create an empty library as an indirection
2016-01-10T17:18:28Z fe[nl]ix: and link it to all required system libraries
2016-01-10T17:18:51Z fe[nl]ix: then you would only load from lisp that shim
2016-01-10T17:19:28Z fe[nl]ix: this helps with the fact that the linking would be done using the OS tools, and finding the correct library as well
2016-01-10T17:19:36Z fe[nl]ix: so you can use pkg-config, etc...
2016-01-10T17:21:15Z fe[nl]ix: dim: you can look at /proc/$PID/maps to see exactly which library was loaded
2016-01-10T17:21:21Z fe[nl]ix: because libraries are mmap'd
2016-01-10T17:21:38Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T17:22:26Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:23:51Z dim: so, I hate the whole business of dynamic loading of libs, and I want it as simple as possible, and I just don't understand how/why it shouldn't be CFFI's job to make it work... your proposal is really making me anxious, I don't want to lose my mind trying to solve that problem myself, and the last thing I want to do is develop my own .so
2016-01-10T17:23:58Z dim: I really hope there's another solution
2016-01-10T17:24:07Z dim: also note that debian users are out of the woods
2016-01-10T17:24:28Z dim: because the lib is found at the same place on the build setup and the live/running setup
2016-01-10T17:24:36Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:24:53Z dim: so I should maybe just answer: either use debian or ask your OS packager to properly package pgloader like I did in debian.
2016-01-10T17:25:08Z dim: (it's a tad too harsh an answer for my taste)
2016-01-10T17:26:05Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-10T17:28:46Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T17:29:34Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:29:53Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T17:31:25Z contrapunctus: folks? anyone?
2016-01-10T17:32:34Z p_l: contrapunctus: you need to swiych terminal into raw mode to be able to read without enter being pressed
2016-01-10T17:33:09Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:34:24Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T17:34:39Z contrapunctus: thanks p_l , looking into that.
2016-01-10T17:35:10Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:35:12Z p_l: generally it's unix API issue
2016-01-10T17:36:24Z fe[nl]ix: dim: the OS tools are all geared towards compile-time binding between library name and paths
2016-01-10T17:36:44Z fe[nl]ix: not runtime dlopen(), like CL FFIs do
2016-01-10T17:37:50Z contrapunctus: p_l: aha, this looks related - https://github.com/kingcons/trivial-raw-io
2016-01-10T17:38:38Z dim: fe[nl]ix: I wish I didn't have to care... so much... I took on qmynd maintenance to avoid cl-mysql FFI, but can't do that for SSL and SQLite and FreeTDS unfortunately
2016-01-10T17:38:50Z fe[nl]ix: CFFI tries to replicate some of the features found in ld(1) and pkg-config(1) but it can't do a good job because those things are OS-specific
2016-01-10T17:39:15Z dim: I'm close to thinking it would be cheaper overall to just implement pure-CL solutions to those than trying to beat CFFI into something that just works
2016-01-10T17:39:59Z fe[nl]ix: it's really easy: have an autotools script that looks for those libraries and compiles a small library that links to them
2016-01-10T17:40:10Z fe[nl]ix: what everybody does is what is guaranteed to work
2016-01-10T17:41:01Z dim: at runtime?
2016-01-10T17:41:25Z fe[nl]ix: at compile-time
2016-01-10T17:41:28Z dim: my understanding is that the problem we have is that buildtime and runtime environments are different, right?
2016-01-10T17:41:57Z fe[nl]ix: no, it's that the buildtime environments can vary wildly
2016-01-10T17:42:12Z attila_lendvai: fe[nl]ix: those things in linux are only easy for the *second* time
2016-01-10T17:42:25Z dim: related, fe[nl]ix, see also: https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/issues/316#issuecomment-169900415
2016-01-10T17:42:35Z fe[nl]ix: versions and install paths can vary from system to system
2016-01-10T17:42:43Z dim: ok
2016-01-10T17:43:13Z dim: now, how do I guarantee that libpgloadersslwrapper will never fail to load from CFFI on any system where pgloader is compiled?
2016-01-10T17:43:36Z dim: (and again, I only really care about debian here, and in debian it works)
2016-01-10T17:44:04Z fe[nl]ix: I suspect it works by accident
2016-01-10T17:44:08Z dim: (except in the latest link (issue 316) and I don't understand why (it's a debian docker image failing to load SSL again, used to work, I didn't change the code around the loading)
2016-01-10T17:44:32Z fe[nl]ix: the buildtime and runtime distro need to be the same, for practical purposes
2016-01-10T17:44:48Z dim: that's what happens with docker and debian
2016-01-10T17:44:51Z fe[nl]ix: in #316 he's probably using too old a version of openssl
2016-01-10T17:45:07Z dim: he's using the debian/jessie one :/
2016-01-10T17:45:13Z moore33 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-10T17:45:21Z fe[nl]ix: openssl tends not to remove functions once they're part of the API/ABI
2016-01-10T17:45:21Z Wizek quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T17:46:22Z fe[nl]ix: dim: that's why I suggest an autotools script that does the job of searching for the required C libs and prints the versions found, etc...
2016-01-10T17:46:25Z fe[nl]ix: better debugging
2016-01-10T17:46:42Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T17:46:44Z fe[nl]ix: you have no visibility on what dlopen() does when loading from Lisp
2016-01-10T17:47:51Z fe[nl]ix: and of course the openssl man pages don't list the version in which that function was added
2016-01-10T17:48:12Z ft joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:48:26Z fe[nl]ix: I miss SunOS man pages, they were very well written
2016-01-10T17:49:02Z p_l: fe[nl]ix: don'txwxpwct much in terms of manpages from GNU projects :-(
2016-01-10T17:49:07Z dim: I begin to grasp the missing symbol problem now
2016-01-10T17:49:27Z dim: you're telling me the build env did have the symbol, but the run-time doesn't have it?
2016-01-10T17:50:17Z dim: as the build and run-time envs are the same when using docker, what must have happened is that the OS contains several libssl versions and one of them has been used for building pgloader, yet another one is linked to at runtime?!
2016-01-10T17:50:24Z fe[nl]ix: yes, because of two different versions of libssl being installed
2016-01-10T17:50:43Z fe[nl]ix: dim: I would suppose so
2016-01-10T17:51:05Z dim: the docker image has both libssl1.0.0 and openssl debian packages
2016-01-10T17:51:10Z fe[nl]ix: and since multiple versions can be installed at the same time, this can happen
2016-01-10T17:51:15Z dim: my understanding is that we need both
2016-01-10T17:51:28Z dim: CFFI needs the "developer edition" of the .so right?
2016-01-10T17:51:43Z p_l: dim: no
2016-01-10T17:52:08Z p_l: unless yiu're using a groveller or something
2016-01-10T17:52:15Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T17:52:41Z dim: all I do is depend on QL systems that in turn depend on cl+ssl
2016-01-10T17:52:53Z fe[nl]ix: p_l: the problem is that the concrete .so changes with each version, so you can't hardcode that in the CFFI definition
2016-01-10T17:52:56Z dim: (postmodern, qmynd and some others)
2016-01-10T17:53:17Z fe[nl]ix: basically, in lisp everybody loads the .so, which is only provided by the -dev packages
2016-01-10T17:53:28Z fe[nl]ix: but the actual version changes
2016-01-10T17:53:42Z dim: fe[nl]ix: I could advice the user of issue #316 to remove the libssl package and only keep the runtime support (openssl package), right?
2016-01-10T17:53:48Z p_l: fe[nl]ix: the right thing to do is to depend on SONAME iirc, but it might mean enconding versioned symbols in CFFI
2016-01-10T17:54:34Z p_l: because makimg the same function with same argunenta use a different ABI is a thing nowadays
2016-01-10T17:54:35Z dim: ah well openssl package doesn't have the .so https://packages.debian.org/jessie/amd64/openssl/filelist
2016-01-10T17:54:53Z fe[nl]ix: dim: the package openssl only contains command-line utils
2016-01-10T17:54:59Z dim: libssl1.0.0 has it, https://packages.debian.org/jessie/amd64/libssl1.0.0/filelist
2016-01-10T17:55:38Z dim: so I can't even start to guess where the other ssl .so might be coming from :/
2016-01-10T17:56:15Z p_l: btw, loadibg a library through dlopen() and loading them through ELF header symbol resolving calls the same code
2016-01-10T17:56:22Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-10T17:57:26Z dim: all I know is "Undefined alien: "SSL_CTX_set_default_verify_dir"
2016-01-10T17:59:19Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-10T18:00:08Z yrdz quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-10T18:00:09Z scymtym_: dim: have you seen https://github.com/cl-plus-ssl/cl-plus-ssl/issues/33 ?
2016-01-10T18:00:23Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:02:09Z fe[nl]ix: p_l: the search paths can differ between compile-time and runtime
2016-01-10T18:04:08Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:04:24Z dim: scymtym_: thanks! just added that reference to the pgloader issue
2016-01-10T18:04:32Z dim: witht some version questioning from fe[nl]ix
2016-01-10T18:04:44Z fe[nl]ix: dim: touch empty.c ; gcc empty.c -fPIC -shared -o libpgloaderwrapper.so -Wl,--no-as-needed $(pkg-config libssl --libs)
2016-01-10T18:04:53Z fe[nl]ix: it's that easy
2016-01-10T18:05:08Z dim: is there a way to have SBCL "import" the build-time .so into the image, then use this one rather than any other one?
2016-01-10T18:05:34Z dim: I mean, the built image is already depending on the run-time env a lot (OS, kernel version, libc I guess, etc) so we're not dealing with portability here
2016-01-10T18:05:53Z p_l: fe[nl]ix: which is why RPATH was always an abomination
2016-01-10T18:06:05Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:06:09Z yrdz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T18:06:19Z dim: fe[nl]ix: then I need something in lisp to load that, cffi again I guess
2016-01-10T18:06:28Z fe[nl]ix: dim: exactly
2016-01-10T18:06:31Z yrdz` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:06:37Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T18:06:46Z dim: where do I need to ship the libpgloaderwrapper.so ?
2016-01-10T18:06:59Z dim: I'm sure it depends on the OS
2016-01-10T18:07:19Z dim: and also, now I have gcc and binutils and half-the-world as a build dependency
2016-01-10T18:07:20Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:07:33Z fe[nl]ix: p_l: in certain cases RPATH is very useful because it avoids search paths
2016-01-10T18:07:54Z fe[nl]ix: dim: clang should work too(e.g. OSX)
2016-01-10T18:08:02Z p_l: fe[nl]ix: yes, but it shouldn't be automatically hardcoded by default
2016-01-10T18:08:19Z fe[nl]ix: but using autotools helps with compiling this indirection
2016-01-10T18:08:25Z dim: what about loading the ssl.so and freetds.so and etc from build-time right into the sbcl image and then having that loaded (either automatically as already linked or explicitely from the image) at run-time?
2016-01-10T18:09:28Z fe[nl]ix: dim: you can sort of do that, I think one of my colleagues here published the code that we use to relink the SBCL core
2016-01-10T18:09:33Z yrdz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T18:09:48Z thodg joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:10:03Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:10:34Z dim: I'm thinking (defparameter *ssl.so* (read-file-into-byte-vector ...)) then somehow have cffi use that
2016-01-10T18:10:59Z fe[nl]ix: it's not that easy
2016-01-10T18:11:03Z dim: there's no way I'm having to recompile SBCL as a build dependency of pgloader :/
2016-01-10T18:11:52Z fe[nl]ix: then you have to write it to the file-system, and depending on mount options you won't necessarily be able to load it
2016-01-10T18:11:57Z fe[nl]ix: although that's pretty unlikely
2016-01-10T18:12:08Z fe[nl]ix: dim: not recompiling, relinking
2016-01-10T18:13:07Z fe[nl]ix: so basically, if your target is a Linux distro, do what everybody else does(e.g. Perl/Python/Ruby users) and install your wrapper.so to /usr/lib64
2016-01-10T18:13:12Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-10T18:13:35Z dim: I could do that for *packages* of pgloader, but those don't have the problem we're talking about
2016-01-10T18:13:50Z fe[nl]ix: deploying a single executable is not easy, currently
2016-01-10T18:13:53Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:14:02Z dim: I'm trying to address the problem of people who are building pgloader or running a pre-compiled version of it on their setup
2016-01-10T18:14:14Z sysfault joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:14:15Z fe[nl]ix: for those who run the executable from the source tree, put the .so next to the executable and load it from there
2016-01-10T18:14:20Z fe[nl]ix: that should be a known path
2016-01-10T18:14:21Z dim: pre-compiled but not properly packaged for their target OS
2016-01-10T18:15:04Z dim: (cffi:load-foreign-library "pgloaderwrapper" :search-path ".")
2016-01-10T18:15:21Z fe[nl]ix: here we compile everything statically, it's common to have 2GB server executables
2016-01-10T18:15:48Z fe[nl]ix: dim: no, don't rely on the CFFI search path, because it's implementation-specific what "." means
2016-01-10T18:16:01Z dim: rather (cffi:load-foreign-library "pgloaderwrapper" :search-path (asdf:system-relative-pathname :pgloader "build/bin/")
2016-01-10T18:16:11Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T18:16:36Z dim: I'd like to have libssl statically compiled into the pgloader image
2016-01-10T18:16:44Z keix quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T18:16:49Z dim: is there a (mostly) sane way to do that?
2016-01-10T18:16:55Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T18:16:57Z fe[nl]ix: (merge-pathnames (asdf:system-relative-pathname :pgloader "build/bin/") #p"libpgloaderwrapper.so")
2016-01-10T18:17:04Z fe[nl]ix: then cffi:load-foreign-library that
2016-01-10T18:17:21Z fe[nl]ix: dim: no, there's no sane way to do that
2016-01-10T18:17:41Z salv0 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:17:48Z fe[nl]ix: I'll blog about it once I'm sure
2016-01-10T18:18:01Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:18:44Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:19:15Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:20:12Z dim: gcc build/empty.c -fPIC -shared -o build/bin/libpgloaderwrapper.so -Wl,--no-as-needed
2016-01-10T18:20:13Z dim: ld: unknown option: --no-as-needed
2016-01-10T18:20:20Z dim: ok, not pursuing that route either ;/
2016-01-10T18:20:59Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:21:07Z fe[nl]ix: wow, I didn't expect that
2016-01-10T18:21:19Z dim: I'll leave it to "please use the debian package"
2016-01-10T18:21:31Z fe[nl]ix: --as-needed was made default a while ago, now it's mandatory :(
2016-01-10T18:21:32Z fe[nl]ix: boo
2016-01-10T18:21:44Z dim: clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
2016-01-10T18:21:52Z dim: it's clang rather than gcc here
2016-01-10T18:21:59Z fe[nl]ix: hmm
2016-01-10T18:22:00Z dim: but anyway, another build dependency hell
2016-01-10T18:22:50Z dim: ld: unknown option: --no-as-needed
2016-01-10T18:22:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:23:00Z dim: /usr/local/Cellar/gcc47/4.7.3/bin/gcc-4.7 build/empty.c -fPIC -shared -o build/bin/libpgloaderwrapper.so -Wl,--no-as-needed
2016-01-10T18:23:15Z dim: still no luck
2016-01-10T18:23:19Z dim: anyway
2016-01-10T18:23:21Z dim left #lisp
2016-01-10T18:23:32Z newcup quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:23:35Z dim joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:24:02Z eni quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T18:24:25Z dim: back to lparallel queues to optimize loading a single big CSV file
2016-01-10T18:24:47Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:24:54Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:25:36Z newcup joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:25:41Z fe[nl]ix: dim: ld --version ?
2016-01-10T18:26:52Z dim: ld: unknown option: --version
2016-01-10T18:27:08Z dim: you're oa loop here :/
2016-01-10T18:27:35Z dim left #lisp
2016-01-10T18:27:51Z fe[nl]ix: it means the system ld is clang's
2016-01-10T18:28:01Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T18:28:14Z fe[nl]ix: and even if you compile with gcc, gcc will use the system compiler
2016-01-10T18:28:28Z fe[nl]ix: one more reason not to use clang
2016-01-10T18:28:42Z dim joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:29:02Z dim: re, hope the loop was on my side
2016-01-10T18:29:13Z dim: (though it was from rcirc being unhappy about something)
2016-01-10T18:29:46Z Octothorpe joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:30:09Z Octothorpe is now known as Guest85344
2016-01-10T18:30:34Z fe[nl]ix: what do you mean by "loop" ?
2016-01-10T18:30:34Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:32:03Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:32:05Z cabaire quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:32:17Z dim: sorry, had a problem where your message kept appearing again and again as in an infinite loop
2016-01-10T18:32:24Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:32:28Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T18:41:43Z Guest77556 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:43:00Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T18:43:20Z newcup quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:43:42Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:43:48Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:47:03Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:47:46Z newcup joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:47:49Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:48:08Z peppermachete quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:50:24Z Guest77556 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:52:12Z emaczen joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:52:49Z emaczen: How can I specialize on a plist vs just a list?
2016-01-10T18:53:19Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:53:58Z peppermachete joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:54:23Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:55:02Z Bike: in a method, you mean?
2016-01-10T18:55:14Z emaczen: Bike: Yes
2016-01-10T18:55:22Z Bike: can't.
2016-01-10T18:55:42Z emaczen: Bike: Are there common workarounds?
2016-01-10T18:55:56Z Bike: not that i'm aware of. i've never heard of someone wanting to do that.
2016-01-10T18:56:07Z Bike: plist structure isn't easily detectable, you know?
2016-01-10T18:56:10Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-10T18:56:36Z emaczen: Bike: Maybe I should have used a hash-table...
2016-01-10T18:56:40Z Bike: and it's contextual. if i do (mapcar #'print '(:foo bar :baz bak)) is that a list or a plist?
2016-01-10T18:57:11Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:57:12Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-10T18:57:16Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T18:57:44Z emaczen: These plists are pretty small in general which is why I used a list
2016-01-10T18:57:52Z emaczen: vs a hashtable I mean
2016-01-10T18:58:05Z Bike: well, sure. but it's unusual to want different behavior for "a list" than for "a plist".
2016-01-10T18:58:31Z peppermachete quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T18:58:31Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-10T18:58:41Z emaczen: Bike: Why is that unusual?
2016-01-10T18:58:47Z Bike: really, i guess it's unusual to have one function that somehow does the same thing to a sequence and to a map.
2016-01-10T18:59:23Z adhoc joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:00:24Z peppermachete joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:00:59Z Guest85344 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-10T19:03:50Z emaczen: Bike: Thanks for the food for thought -- I'm going to just temporarily convert to a hash-table and specialize on hash-tables and lists.
2016-01-10T19:05:14Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T19:05:53Z peppermachete quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T19:07:54Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:07:57Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:08:20Z peppermachete joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:09:32Z Wizek joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:10:16Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:12:33Z krypt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T19:13:41Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T19:16:30Z cadadar quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T19:17:26Z dim: or create your own "map" type (a class or a struct maybe) and specialize on that
2016-01-10T19:17:41Z dim: you can then implement your map type either as a plist or an hash-table
2016-01-10T19:20:28Z lateral left #lisp
2016-01-10T19:25:37Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-10T19:30:05Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T19:31:53Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-10T19:32:31Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:37:23Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T19:38:56Z krypt joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:40:56Z Guest77556 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T19:43:52Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:44:27Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-10T19:44:47Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:46:16Z Baggers left #lisp
2016-01-10T19:47:22Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:47:53Z heddwch is now known as heddick
2016-01-10T19:48:05Z heddick is now known as heddwch
2016-01-10T19:50:00Z Guest77556 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:51:10Z phax left #lisp
2016-01-10T19:51:24Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-10T19:52:07Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:57:49Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T19:57:49Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T20:02:42Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T20:10:04Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T20:12:47Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T20:15:26Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T20:15:48Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-10T20:27:45Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-10T20:28:43Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T20:28:53Z resttime: Finally finished reading all of Erik Naggum's articles in the archive.  Interesting read, learned about lisp and stuff.
2016-01-10T20:29:27Z resttime: I think I'll look through his library next.
2016-01-10T20:30:00Z sysfault quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T20:32:23Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-10T20:33:23Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-10T20:44:55Z vlnx quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-10T20:47:39Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-10T20:54:53Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-10T20:55:16Z psy__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T21:01:19Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-10T21:02:31Z Guest77556 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-10T21:11:14Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-10T21:11:46Z ACE_Recliner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T21:17:50Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T21:23:35Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-10T21:24:20Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-10T21:27:45Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-10T21:28:16Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T21:29:56Z Wizek quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-10T21:30:54Z vlnx joined #lisp
2016-01-10T21:31:03Z wglb: Does any lisp besides Lispworks have functions to access the Windows Regsitry?
2016-01-10T21:32:07Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-10T21:32:09Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T21:32:35Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-10T21:33:08Z pjb: wglb: almost CL implementations running on MS-Windows have FFI.  Therefore you can call the MS-Windows functions to access the MS Windows Registry.  Use CFFI.
2016-01-10T21:33:22Z cabaire quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-10T21:35:30Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-10T21:36:36Z wglb: pjb: Thanks.
2016-01-10T21:37:38Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T21:44:08Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-10T21:44:28Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-10T21:49:45Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-10T22:00:46Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-10T22:03:09Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T22:04:55Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T22:15:24Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-10T22:17:08Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-10T22:25:05Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-10T22:26:38Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-10T22:26:42Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-10T22:28:20Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T22:29:25Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-10T22:33:00Z pbgc quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-10T22:35:01Z theBlackDragon quit (Quit: Boom.)
2016-01-10T22:38:04Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T22:40:20Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-10T22:41:41Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T22:42:18Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T22:42:32Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-10T22:50:50Z dim: what's the common way to do with-output-to-string for bytes instead?
2016-01-10T22:52:37Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-10T22:54:55Z pjb: vector-push-extend.
2016-01-10T22:55:53Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T22:56:02Z dim: should I worry about performances?
2016-01-10T22:56:10Z pillton: dim: There is support for in memory byte streams in Edi Weitz's flexi-streams.
2016-01-10T22:56:18Z pjb: Or else you can get out the big guns, and use Gray Streams.
2016-01-10T22:56:21Z dim: thx
2016-01-10T22:56:49Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T22:56:51Z pjb: If you don't know the maximum size, then use vector-push-extend with a third parameter that is proportional to the length.
2016-01-10T22:56:53Z dim: I remember having removed cde using that in qmynd for perfs re
2016-01-10T22:57:02Z pjb: Pfft!
2016-01-10T22:57:09Z pjb: Balderdash!
2016-01-10T22:57:36Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-10T22:57:44Z dim: rcirc bugged again, sorry
2016-01-10T22:59:11Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-10T23:03:50Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-10T23:04:34Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2016-01-10T23:08:26Z RealityVoid: hello!
2016-01-10T23:16:03Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-10T23:16:53Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-10T23:21:45Z xantoz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T23:25:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-10T23:26:00Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2016-01-10T23:27:44Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-10T23:28:17Z dreamaddict joined #lisp
2016-01-10T23:28:48Z dreamaddict: quick question:  I’m installing Linux on my new machine, for coding, a lot of which will be in Lisp…is there a “best” Linux install for that?
2016-01-10T23:29:06Z dreamaddict: (also, I’m a Linux noob but not beyond learning such an OS)
2016-01-10T23:33:16Z mtl: dreamaddict: not that I know of
2016-01-10T23:33:27Z mtl: that is, I can't think of a lisp focused distro off the top of my head
2016-01-10T23:34:01Z dreamaddict: I meant, I don’t know much about the differences between Linuxes…I was thinking an easy one like Debian or Ubuntu maybe and just wondering if there was something I might not know about that would make me regret one over the other when it came to coding
2016-01-10T23:34:03Z mtl: as for what's best for lisping, as long as there's reasonably up to date compilers available, it should be fine
2016-01-10T23:34:09Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2016-01-10T23:34:28Z jsgrant: mtl: By Lisp, meaning CL?
2016-01-10T23:34:39Z mtl: yes
2016-01-10T23:34:45Z jsgrant: mtl: Debian.
2016-01-10T23:35:00Z dreamaddict: Debian it is
2016-01-10T23:35:05Z mtl: yeah, debian is good
2016-01-10T23:35:05Z jsgrant: That being said, Quicklisp kinda makes it a non-issue largely between any distro.
2016-01-10T23:35:14Z dreamaddict: I can always get a more arcane version of Linux later, if I feel like it
2016-01-10T23:35:38Z mtl: I use arch linux myself, don't really have any issues
2016-01-10T23:35:47Z mtl: but I feel like sbcl might get "too" up to date some times
2016-01-10T23:35:50Z dreamaddict: oh I’ve heard great things about arch
2016-01-10T23:35:54Z jsgrant: I was going to take the jump to Debian awhile back, then realized it was like 10 minutes of work to get everything I wanted via Quicklisp on a Fedora install.,
2016-01-10T23:36:07Z dreamaddict: but this is going to be my first Linux, and I kind of don’t feel like getting that deep into something like Arch just yet
2016-01-10T23:36:09Z mtl: dreamaddict: it's a great distro, not ideal for linux beginners :/
2016-01-10T23:36:15Z dreamaddict: not until I understand better why I would need to :)
2016-01-10T23:36:16Z dreamaddict: so I’ve heard
2016-01-10T23:36:30Z mtl: I had been using linux for years before I started with arch
2016-01-10T23:36:34Z jsgrant: Guix is probably something interesting to keep an eeye on in the future, but for now it's pretty much all Scheme via Guile and even then they don't have that much software packages. :^P
2016-01-10T23:36:59Z dreamaddict: I saw this cool Ceramic library on QL that used the web browser as the GUI
2016-01-10T23:37:03Z dreamaddict: it looks neat, at least...
2016-01-10T23:37:39Z mtl: jsgrant: that's interesting
2016-01-10T23:37:52Z mtl: uh
2016-01-10T23:38:02Z mtl: looks like I accidentally stole a nick
2016-01-10T23:38:04Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-10T23:39:09Z mtl is now known as mtl_
2016-01-10T23:39:16Z jsgrant: dreamaddict: If you are a first-time Opensource Unix-like OS user, Debian/Ubuntu is probably still a good starting place (I started with Ubuntu in early HS, which was like 6 or-so years ago so maybe it's changed ... but doubtful). Fedora is also pretty good all things considered, but I'm biased on that front.
2016-01-10T23:39:24Z mtl_: I don't wanna get ghost killed or something :P
2016-01-10T23:39:27Z jsgrant: Either or, or anything else, it shoulde
2016-01-10T23:39:37Z jsgrant: shouldn't be a big deal*
2016-01-10T23:39:44Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-10T23:39:49Z jsgrant: Due to quicklisp and like self-contained tech.
2016-01-10T23:39:53Z dreamaddict: sounds like I’m going to go with Debian
2016-01-10T23:40:13Z dreamaddict: what little Linux experience I have is from learning vim and a few bash commands on the OSX Terminal
2016-01-10T23:40:24Z dreamaddict: and I did grow up with DOS
2016-01-10T23:40:40Z jsgrant: dreamaddict: I also would probably go with the "Desktop GNOME" opition or similar, as a starter in the installer.
2016-01-10T23:40:43Z dreamaddict: some people these days aren’t down with the command like but that ain’t me
2016-01-10T23:40:50Z RealityVoid quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-10T23:40:59Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-10T23:41:15Z jsgrant: Which, I think may be the default still if you chose the desktop group.
2016-01-10T23:41:44Z mtl_: Yeah I think gnome is still default on debian
2016-01-10T23:41:48Z dreamaddict: now I just need to figure out how to configure dual-boot on this fresh machine
2016-01-10T23:42:03Z dreamaddict: as long as I can play with that sweet looking CEPL
2016-01-10T23:42:08Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-10T23:42:38Z thodg: is cmucl still the best option for production environments ?
2016-01-10T23:42:39Z jsgrant: dreamaddict: Yeah, no idea on that one; Never messed with that -- once I switched to Opensource Unix-likes, I decided to jump all-in, sorry.
2016-01-10T23:42:45Z thodg: or not ?
2016-01-10T23:42:59Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T23:43:05Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-10T23:43:10Z jsgrant: dreamaddict: Yeah, cepl is a pretty exciting project. :^)
2016-01-10T23:43:27Z dreamaddict: eh I wouldn’t care that much about Windows except for I have friends who like to play games that aren’t on Linux
2016-01-10T23:43:28Z mtl_: what's cepl?
2016-01-10T23:43:38Z dreamaddict: code-eval-play-love?
2016-01-10T23:44:00Z dreamaddict: not sure about that last one…it’s a cool Lisp IDE
2016-01-10T23:44:15Z dreamaddict: I saw a guy make some videos with him using it with OpenGL, hot-compiling graphics demos
2016-01-10T23:44:24Z jsgrant: mtl_: The "Code Eval Play Loop", a set of abstracted primitives and higher-level stuff to make making game-engines and graphic demos easier.
2016-01-10T23:44:27Z aeth: As for desktops: KDE's buggy, but has features. GNOME isn't buggy, but is continuously removing features. Afaik, the situation hasn't changed recently.
2016-01-10T23:44:31Z dreamaddict: it made me realize how Lisp is like the code and the config file at the same time
2016-01-10T23:45:00Z jsgrant: dreamaddict: Well, not really an ide; More so it plugs into say swank for slime and can use it via an ide-like system/editor like Emacs.
2016-01-10T23:45:12Z mtl_: dreamaddict: yeah, i realised than when I started using stumpwm
2016-01-10T23:45:26Z mtl_: and configuring it it common lisp
2016-01-10T23:45:45Z mtl_: i love that stuff
2016-01-10T23:46:14Z resttime: thodg: I am not sure what you mean by "production environment" but SBCL and CCL are the usual options people pick now, I think.
2016-01-10T23:46:20Z mtl_: jsgrant: is it usable as a general IDE?
2016-01-10T23:46:39Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T23:47:08Z jsgrant: aeth: I'm using Fedora's Workstation Spin on my main rig and it runs GNOME (and for day-to-day inside said session, a vm that runs stumpwm + emacs) and I think people are too harsh on GNOME. It's more of a casual environment, and does a pretty good job at that -- but it's not really crippled or anything, as people will lead one to believe. :^P
2016-01-10T23:47:14Z mtl_: oh, it plugs into emacs
2016-01-10T23:47:22Z aeth: On Linux, most people use SBCL, afaik. Some libraries might not even work under other Common Lisp implementations because a lot of people just code for SBCL.
2016-01-10T23:47:45Z aeth: jsgrant: Unless you have a setup that GNOME developers apparently do not have, such as having two desktop monitors apparently.
2016-01-10T23:47:52Z axion: a lot of people code for CCL on Linux, too
2016-01-10T23:47:53Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-10T23:47:54Z thodg: i have a problem with their growing idiomacies, common lisp needs a common unix abstraction layer
2016-01-10T23:48:02Z jsgrant: mtl_: Yeah, to my understanding it just leaves a connection open to swank/slime and you can hack it in a live-coding like environment via Emacs, or whatever else can talk to/via swank.
2016-01-10T23:48:20Z aeth: GNOME, unless it's changed recently, has one "primary" and one "secondary" monitor and you have to basically do most things on the primary. KDE usually (although sometimes bugs break it) allows you to have two full panels at the bottom of each monitor.
2016-01-10T23:48:34Z mtl_: ah
2016-01-10T23:48:48Z aeth: s/two/one/
2016-01-10T23:48:50Z aeth: i.e. two full panels
2016-01-10T23:48:59Z mtl_: here I was getting the excited by the idea of a CL ide written in CL that isn't emacs
2016-01-10T23:49:25Z aeth: KDE is extremely customizable so even though the default isn't that great, you can get it to be useable on niche setups more than GNOME, where you have to install a bunch of JavaScript plugins to do anything
2016-01-10T23:49:42Z trinitr0n: dreamaddict: The animation files used for the movie tron are the same way
2016-01-10T23:49:44Z aeth: Not like I'm a big KDE fan. When I say it's buggy, I mean it. It's very buggy, at least the versions that Fedora ships way too early.
2016-01-10T23:49:45Z Guest88361 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-10T23:49:46Z trinitr0n: part procedural
2016-01-10T23:49:46Z jsgrant: aeth: There's an extension for that, but yes, it's dumb there isn't or wasn't a shipped option to do that. That being said, I don't know the state of that anymore, I'm only using one monitor now after accidently knocking over my other.
2016-01-10T23:49:48Z trinitr0n: part config
2016-01-10T23:49:59Z trinitr0n: the scenest themselves were written in lisp
2016-01-10T23:50:10Z jsgrant: mtl_: Second-Climacs.... :^I
2016-01-10T23:50:11Z aeth: At the moment, I'm using xterm instead of konsole because konsole sometimes doesn't close, creating a process that eventually climbs to 100% CPU on one thread until I kill it.
2016-01-10T23:50:17Z trinitr0n: (the animations, lighting, etc- everything but geometries)
2016-01-10T23:50:18Z aeth: There's always a new bug to discover when KDE updates.
2016-01-10T23:50:30Z aeth: (i.e. the window closes but not the process)
2016-01-10T23:50:37Z jsgrant still needs to play with Qtools, now that he thinks of it.
2016-01-10T23:51:13Z mtl_: jsgrant: wow, hadn't caught that
2016-01-10T23:51:20Z mtl_: I was aware of climacs, thought it was just dead
2016-01-10T23:51:43Z angavrilov quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-10T23:52:26Z jsgrant: mtl_: Nah, Beach resurrects yet another piece of precious CL cargo.
2016-01-10T23:52:43Z dreamaddict: they wrote Tron in Lisp?
2016-01-10T23:52:49Z dreamaddict: awesome
2016-01-10T23:52:50Z trinitr0n: yeah
2016-01-10T23:52:57Z trinitr0n: A platform called ASAS
2016-01-10T23:53:07Z trinitr0n: I have to code for it and am trying very hard to get it released
2016-01-10T23:53:09Z aeth: Another great bug: my computer spends forever at 100% after closing some Steam games to generate a core dump (ironically, it thinks the game crashes except when it actually crashes) so I need to disable systemd coredumps. Every single time systemd updates, since Fedora will overwrite the 50-coredump.conf that needs to be overwritten with a link to /dev/null (wtf were systemd programmers thinking)
2016-01-10T23:53:11Z mtl_: dreamaddict: I think CL software was used to make gollum in the LOTR films as well
2016-01-10T23:53:23Z trinitr0n: actually it was used for the simulations / battles
2016-01-10T23:53:28Z jsgrant: dreamaddict: There was at the very least, a frame or 10 with Emacs clearly in it via a CLI.
2016-01-10T23:53:31Z dreamaddict: and yet, every single person that I have met who codes has never heard of Lisp
2016-01-10T23:53:31Z trinitr0n: (in LOTR)
2016-01-10T23:53:46Z dreamaddict: do you mean the original Tron or the new one?
2016-01-10T23:53:50Z trinitr0n: O.G.
2016-01-10T23:54:01Z mtl_: trinitr0n: didn't know that, I could've sword I've read that the software used to animate gollum was CL, though
2016-01-10T23:54:11Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-10T23:54:12Z trinitr0n: ;	"TRON"	MCP Objects
2016-01-10T23:54:12Z trinitr0n: ;
2016-01-10T23:54:12Z trinitr0n: ;---------------------------------------------------------------
2016-01-10T23:54:12Z trinitr0n: (l mcpon)
2016-01-10T23:54:12Z trinitr0n: (defun	mcp-setup  (version)
2016-01-10T23:54:14Z trinitr0n:         (tranew-cmd  '(VIStavision format))
2016-01-10T23:54:17Z trinitr0n: 	(define resolution 9)
2016-01-10T23:54:17Z jsgrant: dreamaddict: New Tron has Emacs.
2016-01-10T23:54:19Z trinitr0n: Etc... :)
2016-01-10T23:54:51Z dreamaddict: seriously Lisp is spoiling me on languages
2016-01-10T23:55:00Z trinitr0n: Lisp is cool
2016-01-10T23:55:06Z dreamaddict: I’m going to have to use something lamer to get employment
2016-01-10T23:55:11Z jsgrant: dreamaddict: Not even heard of Clojure, that's still somefactor of "trendy" isn't it?
2016-01-10T23:55:22Z dreamaddict: yeah people do seem to take Clojure seriously
2016-01-10T23:55:24Z trinitr0n: comparing my Symbolics Lisp Machines to like, everything else of their time is an interesting exercise
2016-01-10T23:55:27Z trinitr0n: anyway
2016-01-10T23:55:35Z dreamaddict: at least it works on the JVM, which means that you can use all of the Java/JS libraries easily with it...right?
2016-01-10T23:55:38Z trinitr0n: TRON was animated in a bunch of software running in MACLISP on a PDP-10
2016-01-10T23:55:50Z mtl_: dreamaddict: yup
2016-01-10T23:56:05Z trinitr0n: if Disney plays nice maybe I can get these tape dumps released
2016-01-10T23:56:11Z dreamaddict: that seems like the compromise you make if you like Lisp but want to get a job
2016-01-10T23:56:12Z mtl_: trinitr0n: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirai_%28software%29
2016-01-10T23:56:21Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-10T23:56:33Z dreamaddict: I don’t know anything about it really but that’s what the situation appears to be
2016-01-10T23:56:34Z jsgrant: Is javascript running on top of the JVM, I thought that was the reason Clojurescript was written?
2016-01-10T23:56:42Z omilu quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-10T23:56:44Z trinitr0n: dreamaddict: could be worse, I'm a PM now so I don't write anything for work
2016-01-10T23:57:26Z mtl_: dreamaddict: well, there's more to clojure than just running on the JVM
2016-01-10T23:57:51Z dreamaddict: it’s…a scheme?
2016-01-10T23:57:55Z trinitr0n: regarding ASAS, Lisp in TRON: http://www.red3d.com/cwr/papers/1982/ASAS82.html
2016-01-10T23:58:13Z aeth: Clojure's not a Scheme or a Common Lisp, it's its own thing
2016-01-10T23:58:15Z mtl_: it's focused on functional programming
2016-01-10T23:58:24Z aeth: And Clojure often departs from the Lispy way of doing things.
2016-01-10T23:58:25Z aeth: Afaik.
2016-01-10T23:58:30Z jsgrant: mtl_: Oh wow, had no idea via LOTR.
2016-01-10T23:59:15Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-10T23:59:28Z mtl_: and designed for threads and concurrency and stuff
2016-01-10T23:59:32Z jsgrant: aeth: Well, it's certainly not very CLish, even though to my knowledge it started with the intention of being an implementation of such on the JVM; Strong object system, vs functionally oriented.
2016-01-10T23:59:42Z trinitr0n: mtl_: neat. it's an offshoot of S-GEOMETRY, which I have an early 80s copy of- https://www.instagram.com/p/1lsGMyNS8b/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
2016-01-11T00:00:10Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T00:00:25Z pillton: It is a bug to read white space characters after a terminating macro character isn't it?
2016-01-11T00:00:32Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T00:00:52Z jsgrant: trinitr0n: Do you have a video somewhere showing of that software on that lispm, I seem to recall that vaguely?
2016-01-11T00:01:00Z trinitr0n: yeah
2016-01-11T00:01:04Z trinitr0n: I think it's on my twitter
2016-01-11T00:01:12Z trinitr0n: i'll check
2016-01-11T00:01:34Z aeth: jsgrant: It doesn't seem very Scheme-like, either. It doesn't have "automatic tail call coptimization" according to Wikipedia, and that's used heavily in Scheme. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clojure#Features
2016-01-11T00:01:36Z jsgrant: trinitr0n: Ah yeah, I think you are right -- that I saw it from a link off there.
2016-01-11T00:01:52Z aeth:  *optimization
2016-01-11T00:02:21Z trinitr0n: https://twitter.com/tr1nitr0n/status/640245142494953472
2016-01-11T00:02:22Z aeth: It also apparently has macros closer to CL
2016-01-11T00:03:43Z jsgrant: Yeah, that was it.
2016-01-11T00:03:54Z trinitr0n: I need to shoot more
2016-01-11T00:04:00Z trinitr0n: the power supply on that machine shit out
2016-01-11T00:04:23Z trinitr0n: I actually have three 3620s, and all the supplies have blown transistors
2016-01-11T00:04:27Z janmuffino joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:04:31Z janmuffino quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-11T00:06:23Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-11T00:06:51Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:07:50Z pillton found the answer in the clhs entry about read.
2016-01-11T00:09:06Z danieli quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T00:12:19Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:14:50Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T00:15:03Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:15:04Z danieli quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-11T00:15:33Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:15:33Z danieli quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-11T00:16:03Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:16:03Z danieli quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-11T00:16:33Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:16:34Z danieli quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-11T00:17:03Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:17:04Z danieli quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-11T00:17:33Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:17:34Z danieli quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-11T00:18:03Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:18:04Z danieli quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-11T00:19:40Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:19:49Z Lord_Quimby quit
2016-01-11T00:21:07Z xantoz joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:22:41Z m_zr0_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T00:24:50Z Xach quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T00:26:03Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:26:15Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:27:59Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:28:42Z Guest88361 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:28:54Z yrdz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T00:28:55Z yrdz` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T00:30:10Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-11T00:30:44Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T00:36:05Z Jonsky joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:36:57Z |3b|`` is now known as |3b|
2016-01-11T00:37:47Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T00:44:54Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T00:45:33Z krypt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T00:45:53Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-11T00:46:35Z pseudo_sue quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-11T00:48:14Z Guest88361 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T00:48:29Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:06:51Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:07:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T01:08:35Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:09:17Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-11T01:12:23Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T01:13:57Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-11T01:14:28Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:16:42Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:17:37Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:17:52Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:17:59Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:18:16Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T01:18:34Z prion joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:20:27Z prion: Hi! I have a little problem: I try to install a package with quicklisp, "lisp-critic", which verify my code; but after the "(ql:quickload "lisp-critic")" command, which respond by anothing seems to work... Do I miss a command?
2016-01-11T01:20:57Z prion: respond by: ("lisp-critic"), which must say that the package is well installed...
2016-01-11T01:23:34Z prion: I find out: I must call the package with (use-package '#:lisp-critic). Thanks anyway!
2016-01-11T01:26:15Z zch quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-11T01:31:56Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:36:26Z baboon` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T01:37:33Z krypt joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:39:03Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:41:09Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:42:14Z Quadrescence quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T01:42:31Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:43:01Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:43:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T01:43:48Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:44:14Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T01:45:03Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:51:17Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-11T01:51:41Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: calip)
2016-01-11T01:52:10Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-11T01:54:45Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:54:48Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T01:56:17Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T01:58:01Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:00:14Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:00:45Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T02:00:50Z caffeinic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T02:03:44Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:04:42Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T02:07:02Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:07:46Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T02:08:00Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T02:11:02Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:11:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T02:11:49Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:12:56Z caffeinic quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T02:14:25Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-11T02:15:29Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:17:30Z jason_m quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-11T02:18:26Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:18:33Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-11T02:19:14Z prion: q/part
2016-01-11T02:19:15Z prion left #lisp
2016-01-11T02:20:17Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:20:46Z yeticry quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T02:21:15Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T02:21:32Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:24:28Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T02:27:32Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:27:50Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-11T02:29:19Z ACE_Recliner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T02:29:29Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:30:12Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:30:20Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:36:14Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:36:33Z loke: Good morning lisp
2016-01-11T02:37:00Z jsgrant: Good evening loke.
2016-01-11T02:37:28Z Heranort_: Good morning
2016-01-11T02:37:28Z minion: Heranort_, memo from pjb: there's a very nice python<->CL bridge explained in ELS2014. "CLAUDE – The Common Lisp Library Audience Expansion Toolkit". http://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/editions/2014/ELS2014.pdf
2016-01-11T02:37:48Z Heranort_: Wow! that is cool!
2016-01-11T02:38:04Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:38:24Z Heranort_: i'll check about that. thx!
2016-01-11T02:39:25Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:50:23Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:52:18Z Heranort_: oh this one works on lispworks on windows, and to install it i must have a paid license, i don't have that :-|
2016-01-11T02:52:48Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T02:55:59Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T02:57:14Z cods quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T02:58:01Z cods joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:02:50Z resttime quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T03:04:31Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:07:59Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T03:08:12Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:08:28Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T03:09:59Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T03:14:55Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:16:28Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:17:53Z Jonsky quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.1)
2016-01-11T03:18:20Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-11T03:19:31Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:23:13Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:24:03Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:24:41Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T03:32:44Z caffeinic quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T03:33:47Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T03:39:53Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:39:57Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:40:09Z caffeinic quit (Changing host)
2016-01-11T03:40:09Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:44:03Z Heranort_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T03:45:06Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-11T03:45:50Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-11T03:49:21Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:50:16Z cpc26_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T03:56:15Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-11T03:58:29Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T03:59:45Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T04:00:48Z Heranor__ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T04:00:53Z lnostdal_ is now known as lnostdal
2016-01-11T04:00:55Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-11T04:03:15Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T04:04:55Z Heranor__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T04:05:04Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-11T04:22:38Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-11T04:33:05Z Zhivago quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T04:33:46Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-11T04:36:35Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T04:37:29Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T04:39:10Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-11T04:42:19Z PuercoPop: Heranort_: there is also burgled-batteries
2016-01-11T04:42:40Z PuercoPop: https://github.com/mmontone/burgled-batteries
2016-01-11T04:43:05Z PuercoPop: if you want to access Python libraries from CL
2016-01-11T04:44:11Z arescorpio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T04:44:35Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T04:44:53Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T04:45:10Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T04:46:37Z dreamaddict quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T04:59:52Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2016-01-11T04:59:53Z Zhivago quit (Changing host)
2016-01-11T04:59:53Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:00:05Z jaykru quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T05:02:40Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:02:41Z je4i` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T05:06:37Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:08:03Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-11T05:09:59Z Warlock[29A] quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-11T05:10:23Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:10:44Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T05:15:51Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:16:01Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-11T05:16:51Z Petit_Dejeuner: morning
2016-01-11T05:17:14Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-11T05:17:19Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:17:59Z resttime quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T05:18:30Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:20:53Z gabriel_laddel quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-11T05:24:18Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:25:39Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:30:06Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T05:32:44Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-11T05:40:48Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:40:50Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T05:46:20Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:47:05Z AlphaAtom quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T05:48:13Z Octothorpe joined #lisp
2016-01-11T05:48:30Z Octothorpe is now known as Guest27010
2016-01-11T05:51:06Z Guest27010 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T05:51:48Z cabaire quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-11T05:52:17Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-11T05:58:59Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T06:04:44Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-11T06:05:45Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T06:08:37Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T06:10:35Z Fleurety quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T06:13:50Z krypt quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-11T06:15:34Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T06:19:06Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T06:21:16Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-11T06:22:26Z pillton: G'day beach.
2016-01-11T06:25:38Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T06:30:15Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T06:32:53Z kp666 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T06:35:42Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-11T06:38:39Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-11T06:42:14Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T06:44:16Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-11T06:50:53Z cadadar_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T06:51:43Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-11T06:57:03Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-11T07:03:14Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:05:50Z joneshf-laptop quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T07:08:10Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:08:56Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-11T07:09:35Z Jonsky joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:10:54Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T07:16:39Z emaczen joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:16:56Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:17:03Z kp666 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-11T07:17:26Z emaczen: can subclasses inherit initforms or initargs? If so, how -- I keep getting a slot unbound error and I don't want to have to write a default-initarg for each subclass...
2016-01-11T07:18:48Z Bike: they should inherit them without you doing anything.
2016-01-11T07:18:50Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T07:19:32Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:20:58Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:22:41Z emaczen: Bike: I have an initialize-instance method for each subclass -- could this be affecting it?
2016-01-11T07:23:27Z Bike: i'm sure it could
2016-01-11T07:23:51Z emaczen: but shouldn't the default initform be set if an initarg for that field is never passed into "initialize-instance"?
2016-01-11T07:24:36Z cpc26_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:26:15Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T07:28:02Z Bike: well, i don't know what you're doing. shared-initialize is i think what does the "check for args and if there isn't one use the initform" stuff, if you're totally overriding it that might nto happen.
2016-01-11T07:32:46Z freehck` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:35:34Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T07:36:54Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:40:47Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:42:29Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:42:39Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T07:43:40Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:44:07Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:45:34Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T07:46:17Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:46:50Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T07:47:48Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:50:28Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-11T07:51:15Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:55:08Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T07:57:26Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T07:59:40Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:02:26Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:08:20Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:09:13Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:09:52Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:10:27Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:13:02Z vap1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:13:59Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:15:32Z je4i` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:16:17Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:19:54Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:21:29Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:22:32Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:24:35Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:25:16Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:26:02Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:26:17Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:28:04Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-11T08:28:39Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:29:20Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:31:55Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:31:56Z fourier quit (Changing host)
2016-01-11T08:31:56Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:33:23Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T08:33:35Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:36:43Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:39:06Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:40:58Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:43:14Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-11T08:43:32Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:45:54Z zacharias_ is now known as zacharias
2016-01-11T08:48:20Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:48:36Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:49:50Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:49:53Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T08:50:15Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:51:03Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T08:51:30Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-11T08:58:07Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:00:10Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T09:00:47Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-11T09:01:16Z shka: yo
2016-01-11T09:01:45Z shka: does anybody happen to know what is the possible way to represent graph in persistent data structure?
2016-01-11T09:06:00Z Petit_Dejeuner: shka: Persistant as in immutable, but keeping around references to unchanged parts of the graph when you create a new one based on an existing one?
2016-01-11T09:06:10Z shka: yes
2016-01-11T09:06:48Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:13:38Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:16:35Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T09:18:55Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T09:22:17Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T09:22:52Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:30:37Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:32:21Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T09:32:35Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:33:19Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:34:58Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:34:58Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:35:20Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:37:31Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-11T09:37:52Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:40:06Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:42:26Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:43:23Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T09:47:06Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T09:50:19Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:53:04Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T09:56:35Z rebelshrug quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T09:56:51Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T09:58:37Z flambard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T09:58:54Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:59:00Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-11T09:59:15Z fluter is now known as fluter_
2016-01-11T10:00:48Z zaquest quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:01:39Z angavrilov_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:01:56Z angavrilov quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:01:57Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:01:57Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-11T10:01:57Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:02:16Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:02:18Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:02:20Z kjeldahl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:02:20Z kjeldahl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:02:39Z zaquest joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:02:53Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:03:50Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:05:57Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:06:33Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:07:41Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:08:38Z fluter_ is now known as fluter
2016-01-11T10:09:26Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:09:28Z _main_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:10:20Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:11:04Z fluter is now known as fluter_
2016-01-11T10:12:00Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-11T10:12:48Z __main__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:13:27Z _main_ is now known as __main__
2016-01-11T10:14:53Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:15:52Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:16:01Z zadock joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:17:20Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:17:28Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T10:20:20Z flip214: shka: build trees of connections, and share subtrees?
2016-01-11T10:20:39Z flip214: or perhaps even tries
2016-01-11T10:22:20Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:22:22Z shka: flip214: how that would look like?
2016-01-11T10:22:28Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:23:21Z flip214: well, have a structure with (from to) for the connections, and build a tree of them?
2016-01-11T10:23:49Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:24:11Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:25:19Z shka: hmmm
2016-01-11T10:25:50Z shka: flip214: and what would be root?
2016-01-11T10:26:42Z flip214: sorry, I don't understand that question.
2016-01-11T10:26:49Z shka: root of the tree
2016-01-11T10:27:01Z shka: but that was silly question
2016-01-11T10:27:39Z flip214: you need some way to get the tree ordered, I guess... do you have some order for the vertices?
2016-01-11T10:27:56Z shka: i kinda have in this scenario
2016-01-11T10:29:15Z flip214: for nodes (1 2 3) the connection tree might look like (((1 2) (1 3)) (2 3))  .. after removing the (2 3) connection you'll be left with the ((1 2) (1 3)) subtree
2016-01-11T10:30:31Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:33:29Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:35:35Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:36:35Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:36:44Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:37:02Z ljames joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:39:46Z test1600_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-11T10:41:25Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T10:41:29Z zadock quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:42:36Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T10:44:00Z fluter_ is now known as fluter
2016-01-11T10:49:32Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-11T10:49:44Z shka: flip214: interesting, but i want to have everything biderectional
2016-01-11T10:56:20Z flip214: shka: yes, no problem.
2016-01-11T10:56:37Z flip214: just define a connection tuple to be stored in ascending vertex order.
2016-01-11T10:57:00Z shka: clever idea!
2016-01-11T10:58:30Z shka: but I would like to get quick answer to the question "where i can go from this node?"
2016-01-11T10:59:04Z flip214: well, then store each connection twice - (1 2) and (2 1)
2016-01-11T10:59:25Z flip214: then the tree should be O(log(2* connections)) again
2016-01-11T10:59:34Z shka: thats a little bit :( though
2016-01-11T10:59:53Z shka: anyway
2016-01-11T10:59:57Z shka: flip214: thanks for ideas
2016-01-11T11:00:16Z shka: you gave me some great input
2016-01-11T11:00:30Z flip214: if you only store once, then you can still do O(log(N)) for the "from" connections, and then have O(N*log(N)) for the "..to" parts
2016-01-11T11:01:43Z shka: and i can use some sort of lookup table
2016-01-11T11:01:54Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T11:02:00Z shka: but no
2016-01-11T11:02:10Z shka: that would defeat whole purpose of tree
2016-01-11T11:02:26Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:03:23Z shka: flip214: i have any idea
2016-01-11T11:03:59Z shka: basicly, i would use something like HAMT
2016-01-11T11:04:03Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T11:04:18Z shka: each trie would be nodes that i can get from there
2016-01-11T11:04:42Z shka: to update structure, i would do copy on write
2016-01-11T11:04:55Z shka: on all paths that should be modified
2016-01-11T11:05:40Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:06:01Z shka: anyway, i have ideas
2016-01-11T11:06:38Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:07:30Z sjl__ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:09:19Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T11:09:50Z Jonsky joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:16:13Z seg quit (Quit: kuwabara kuwabara)
2016-01-11T11:16:36Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:19:09Z seg joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:20:25Z chavezgu quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-11T11:21:23Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:21:51Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T11:22:05Z chavezgu joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:22:30Z __main__ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:26:01Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:28:47Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:35:39Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:38:02Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:38:57Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:41:46Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T11:48:45Z specbot quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-11T11:48:49Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:51:11Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T11:52:14Z xantoz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T11:52:37Z xantoz joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:53:40Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:54:35Z sjl__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T11:55:24Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T11:57:26Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T11:57:39Z Jonsky quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.1)
2016-01-11T11:57:49Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-11T11:58:46Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T12:00:35Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T12:01:15Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:01:55Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T12:02:02Z jcay joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:03:23Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:13:22Z sconery joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:13:26Z sconery: (good (day))
2016-01-11T12:16:18Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T12:16:30Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.)
2016-01-11T12:17:21Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:17:28Z mbuf quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.2)
2016-01-11T12:21:40Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T12:22:08Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:24:55Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:25:07Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:26:15Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:26:49Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:30:19Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:31:38Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T12:32:17Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:35:05Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:35:42Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-11T12:37:23Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T12:43:59Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:44:22Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-11T12:45:34Z izwyt joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:45:44Z sconery quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-11T12:47:16Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:47:28Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:47:31Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:48:21Z phoe_krk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T12:48:55Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T12:49:24Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T12:49:38Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:51:36Z Bor0 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:52:10Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T12:52:29Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:52:53Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-11T12:54:28Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:54:39Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:57:22Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-11T12:57:47Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:01:33Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:02:21Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T13:02:28Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:02:51Z phoe_krk quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T13:02:55Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:03:12Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:04:26Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T13:04:29Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T13:05:11Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:07:05Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:08:47Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T13:10:03Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T13:12:04Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:16:03Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T13:16:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T13:17:39Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-11T13:21:05Z flip214: (every #'good days)
2016-01-11T13:31:08Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-11T13:34:53Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:36:42Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:37:46Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:38:45Z loke``: flip214: → NIL
2016-01-11T13:38:48Z loke``: or no?
2016-01-11T13:39:21Z Heranort: maybe (some #'good days)
2016-01-11T13:40:36Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:42:09Z prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:42:18Z loke``: (remove (complement #'good) days)
2016-01-11T13:42:48Z loke``: Hmm, I mean
2016-01-11T13:42:53Z loke``: (remove-if (complement #'good) days)
2016-01-11T13:44:29Z flip214: loke``: REMOVE-IF-NOT ?
2016-01-11T13:44:42Z Heranort: that is no further supported...
2016-01-11T13:45:05Z loke``: flip214: Yeah, I know.
2016-01-11T13:45:16Z flip214: I thought that it should stay, ie. that the deprecation has been deprecated?
2016-01-11T13:45:29Z loke``: remove-if-not is much better, but then I wouldn't have had the opportunity to show off my 31337 skillz with COMPLEMENT.
2016-01-11T13:45:48Z flip214: yeah, right.
2016-01-11T13:46:02Z flip214: (NOT #'complement) ;)
2016-01-11T13:46:27Z loke``: flip214: And yes, you are right. The deprecation was silly to begin with. And it's not like there's a new CL standard coming that will remove it.
2016-01-11T13:46:28Z Heranort: nice show :-D
2016-01-11T13:47:15Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-11T13:49:23Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T13:49:59Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-11T13:50:16Z Heranort: i found about poems written in perl and i wonder is there any poem written in lisp?
2016-01-11T13:50:42Z Heranort: the sexp poem \o/
2016-01-11T13:51:17Z zwdr: the punctuation would suck wouldnt it :D
2016-01-11T13:51:51Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:52:39Z mtl_: and does let rhyme with let* ?
2016-01-11T13:52:57Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:52:59Z Heranort: zwdr: full of @#$@%$@ :D
2016-01-11T13:53:09Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T13:53:45Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T13:54:41Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T13:57:40Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T13:57:47Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T13:59:33Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:04:09Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T14:09:00Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:09:22Z dim left #lisp
2016-01-11T14:09:30Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T14:10:43Z jackdaniel: /'_°-°_'\
2016-01-11T14:10:47Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:12:26Z dim joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:13:24Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:13:38Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:13:59Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T14:14:07Z dim left #lisp
2016-01-11T14:16:23Z vap1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T14:16:38Z ahungry quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T14:18:51Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T14:20:34Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:20:56Z ekinmur quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T14:21:55Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:24:29Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:26:04Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-11T14:26:13Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-11T14:26:32Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:27:54Z splittist: http://community.schemewiki.org/?lisp-poetry
2016-01-11T14:28:14Z splittist: apropos Heranort ^
2016-01-11T14:28:40Z Bor0 left #lisp
2016-01-11T14:28:55Z jackdaniel: heheh
2016-01-11T14:29:14Z jackdaniel: the lambda ascii-art is great, I saw it somehwere once
2016-01-11T14:29:18Z jackdaniel: before
2016-01-11T14:31:17Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-11T14:32:06Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:34:24Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T14:36:50Z jlongster joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:37:01Z jlongster quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T14:40:28Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T14:41:22Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:41:42Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:42:35Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:44:00Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T14:44:15Z otwieracz: Hi!
2016-01-11T14:44:40Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:45:12Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:45:18Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T14:46:18Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:46:49Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T14:47:15Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:49:20Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T14:50:02Z Heranort: good evening
2016-01-11T14:54:33Z otwieracz: Let's say I've got got asd system „proj-a”
2016-01-11T14:54:41Z otwieracz: And following hierarchy on FS:
2016-01-11T14:54:46Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-11T14:54:46Z otwieracz: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304962
2016-01-11T14:55:05Z otwieracz: I'm adding directory with proj-a.asd to ql:*local-project-directories*
2016-01-11T14:55:39Z otwieracz: And now, in asdf:defsystem #:proj-a
2016-01-11T14:55:55Z otwieracz: How can I specify to look for #:dep-b inder submodules/common-dependencies/dep-b?
2016-01-11T14:58:30Z contrapunctus: I also have an ASDF question (...sort of). If one has a program backend, a CLI, and a GUI - what's the usual way to organize them into systems? (assuming one wants to use the package inferred system, which I gather new projects should be...)
2016-01-11T14:59:27Z moore33: I'm not seeing the attraction of the package inferred approach, but then I'm a dinosaur.
2016-01-11T15:02:03Z dlowe: I don't like the package inferred approach, myself.
2016-01-11T15:03:17Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:03:26Z Xach_: otwieracz: I don't know, sorry. If I was in that situation, i'd teach asdf about the location instead (e.g. with :tree) or use the fact that local-projects scans the whole tree too.
2016-01-11T15:03:29Z contrapunctus: s/should be/should/
2016-01-11T15:04:00Z qubitner1 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:04:05Z otwieracz: Xach_: How does :tree work?
2016-01-11T15:04:07Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:04:23Z otwieracz: It will let me include another .add?
2016-01-11T15:04:47Z contrapunctus: moore33 , dlowe - I see...and suppose one doesn't use the package-inferred-system?
2016-01-11T15:05:07Z Xach_: otwieracz: it makes note of every .asd in a directory tree at every level
2016-01-11T15:05:32Z Xach_: otwieracz: like local-projects does
2016-01-11T15:05:32Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:06:04Z moore33: contrapunctus: Use large packages for symbols, something else for dependencies :)
2016-01-11T15:06:15Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:06:47Z otwieracz: Xach_: how asdf will act, if I will have multiple structures like this one
2016-01-11T15:07:04Z otwieracz: Xach_: but with different version of dep-b for example?
2016-01-11T15:07:30Z contrapunctus: moore33: I meant how to organize it into /systems/ o.o
2016-01-11T15:07:35Z otwieracz: (my-project-1 depends on dep-b git submodule in revision X, my-project-2 needs dep-b revision Y)
2016-01-11T15:07:35Z dlowe: contrapunctus: My projects usually have the structure doc/ src/ tests/ with asd files on the top level
2016-01-11T15:07:36Z Xach_: otwieracz: If you want to load different versions, you must reconfigure asdf
2016-01-11T15:07:55Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:07:55Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-11T15:07:55Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:07:56Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:07:58Z m_zr0_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:08:01Z dlowe: sometimes I have a compile/ directory for package definitions and macros that src/ depends on
2016-01-11T15:08:15Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:08:19Z dlowe: so it rebuilds the whole src/ tree when I change a macro
2016-01-11T15:08:29Z Xach_: otwieracz: I don't think there is a convenient way to do what you're talking about, sorry. But I also don't know asdf very well.
2016-01-11T15:08:34Z moore33: contrapunctus: I haven't really found my way through that. I am not an asdf power user. Yet.
2016-01-11T15:09:11Z otwieracz: Xach_: because there's no way to work with two systems, each one depending on different version of one software
2016-01-11T15:09:25Z contrapunctus: hm. I see, thanks dlowe , moore33
2016-01-11T15:09:29Z Myk267 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:09:40Z Xach_: otwieracz: That's correct. In a single session, you can't load distinct versions of the same project to satisfy other requirements.
2016-01-11T15:10:28Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:10:42Z otwieracz: I am not even talking about single session.
2016-01-11T15:10:55Z m_zr0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:11:19Z Xach_: otwieracz: The way to do it is to reconfigure asdf, then.
2016-01-11T15:11:26Z Warlock[29A] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:11:31Z otwieracz: What do you mean by reconfiguring asdf?
2016-01-11T15:11:59Z Heranort quit
2016-01-11T15:12:31Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:12:32Z Xach_: otwieracz: It has to know about the structure of systems you want to load into a particular session. So it must be made to ignore or overlook conflicting different versions of the same project.
2016-01-11T15:12:48Z GGMethos quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:12:53Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T15:13:54Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:14:27Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:14:52Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:14:57Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T15:15:16Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:16:26Z Xach_: otwieracz: asdf configuration has a major escape hatch in asdf:*system-definition-search-functions*. So if you can't figure out how to use asdf to configure paths to system files, you might be able to write your own function to do exactly what you want and put it in that list.
2016-01-11T15:16:51Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T15:17:55Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:18:36Z ljames quit
2016-01-11T15:19:08Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:20:04Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:20:32Z qubitner1 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-11T15:21:52Z balle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T15:22:36Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T15:22:48Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T15:23:37Z otwieracz: Xach_: stupid question – what if I will do (load "submodules/blabla/dep-b/dep-b.asd")
2016-01-11T15:23:41Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:23:48Z otwieracz: Because asdf files are just loaded
2016-01-11T15:25:03Z Xach_: otwieracz: They aren't just loaded - the environment established by load-system is different in certain ways than a plain load
2016-01-11T15:25:13Z otwieracz: Oh. Ok.
2016-01-11T15:25:26Z Xach_: otwieracz: There was an internal function named something like load-system-file that I think should be part of supported external functionality, but I don't know if that has happened
2016-01-11T15:25:45Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:29:38Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:30:05Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T15:30:48Z otwieracz: damn
2016-01-11T15:31:11Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:33:49Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:34:00Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:35:29Z fe[nl]ix: ASDF/BACKWARD-INTERNALS:LOAD-SYSDEF
2016-01-11T15:36:05Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:36:14Z balle joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:37:26Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:40:56Z GGMethos joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:41:14Z nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man
2016-01-11T15:41:20Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:42:23Z cadadar_ left #lisp
2016-01-11T15:42:47Z otwieracz: fe[nl]ix: however, this still sounds like dirty hack
2016-01-11T15:43:18Z otwieracz: fe[nl]ix: and I am not convinced to use it just to match git-submodule workflow
2016-01-11T15:43:46Z otwieracz: (the idea is to have common dependencies pinned to specific versions for each project)
2016-01-11T15:44:39Z GGMethos quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-11T15:45:00Z fe[nl]ix: that has nothing to do with the issue that the way to (re)load a .asd file is the function above
2016-01-11T15:45:55Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:48:43Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:49:10Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:50:10Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:50:54Z prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-11T15:52:01Z sjl__ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:55:59Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:56:53Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-11T15:57:12Z sjl quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T15:57:14Z sjl__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T15:59:38Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T16:01:32Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:02:24Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:02:39Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-11T16:03:46Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T16:03:48Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T16:03:48Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-11T16:04:14Z jocuman joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:05:21Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:06:49Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:07:01Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-11T16:07:46Z Patzy joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:08:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:09:55Z thodg quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-11T16:10:53Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:14:30Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-11T16:16:28Z GGMethos joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:20:11Z dwchandler: I've seen/read several times that the state of free software lisp environments today is still lacking compared to the days of lisp machines (zmacs, et al).
2016-01-11T16:20:42Z dwchandler: Anyone know of a good writeup of this, or other pointers to concrete criticisms/details?
2016-01-11T16:21:11Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T16:21:13Z Xach_: I don't know of many details, but it would make sense, given that the lisp machine companies were well-capitalized and hired a lot of great people to do a ton of great work.
2016-01-11T16:21:27Z dwchandler: Is the state of commercial environments approaching or ahead of the days of lisp machines?
2016-01-11T16:21:36Z Xach_: Commercial CL environmens?
2016-01-11T16:21:51Z dwchandler: Yes, commercial CL
2016-01-11T16:21:57Z moore33: You can download all the Symbolics manuals and decide for yourself.
2016-01-11T16:22:24Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T16:22:25Z dwchandler: moore33: well, I'm not sure I have the perspective to make all the judgements
2016-01-11T16:22:30Z Xach_: dwchandler: I think it's a bit hard to compare because of the high level of top to bottom integration of the lisp machines.
2016-01-11T16:22:48Z jsgrant: dwchandler: Here is a write up what Beach put out of what he wants in a modern LispOS, that is prety nice as a basic overview.
2016-01-11T16:22:57Z Xach_: Where there's a single documentation system interwoven into everything, a single language, a coherent suite of tools and stuff.
2016-01-11T16:23:20Z Xach_: The benefit we get of these modern times is much, much greater hardware speed.
2016-01-11T16:23:24Z Xach_: So much.
2016-01-11T16:24:05Z jsgrant: A lot of the the issues in modern CL implementations (as far as I can tell) if one wants a LispM like-env, a is not so much a technical issue, as much as "not done/practical/costly" thing.
2016-01-11T16:24:29Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T16:24:37Z mordocai: jsgrant: Do you have a link to that beach write up?
2016-01-11T16:24:54Z mordocai: I'm not sure what beach's name is so not sure how to google it
2016-01-11T16:24:56Z jsgrant: mordocai: Woops, thought I posted it. https://github.com/robert-strandh/LispOS
2016-01-11T16:24:58Z dwchandler: Xach_: exactly. with modern speeds, things like lighttable (where things are shown live) become practical, and other things nobody has done yet
2016-01-11T16:25:12Z mordocai: jsgrant: thanks
2016-01-11T16:25:21Z moore33: Lisp Machines didn't have a web browser (heh, not actually sure of that) which you could use to look stuff up on StackOverflow
2016-01-11T16:25:34Z dwchandler: jsgrant: thanks for the link :)
2016-01-11T16:26:14Z jsgrant: Xach: I would /love/ if CL picked up Skriba or something; Lack of a common documentation base is something that is a bit saddening for me, and was a big draw personally that had me looking at Racket before I started taking CL a lot more seriously.
2016-01-11T16:26:44Z Xach_: jsgrant: I would like it if docs were a solved problem, but it seems like a hard one.
2016-01-11T16:27:13Z jsgrant: Xach: Yeah, it's not like there's a "central authority" thing like Racket has.
2016-01-11T16:27:31Z Xach_: jsgrant: and people come from so many different backgrounds and motivation, too.
2016-01-11T16:28:10Z jsgrant: Organically, it'd have to be something like asdf or ql, where people see the value of it over other solutions and it just becomes expected.
2016-01-11T16:28:12Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:29:01Z jsgrant: Markdown and/or plaintext is pretty ubiquitous at this point, but it's so limited that I really don't want it to be the defacto.
2016-01-11T16:29:46Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:29:50Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T16:29:52Z jsgrant: Even org-mode is fine, and it'll get you pretty far all-and-all, but still.
2016-01-11T16:29:53Z contrapunctus: speaking of LispOSes...anyone know what became of the development on Mezzano? Seems to have stalled...which'd suck :\
2016-01-11T16:30:14Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:31:04Z zophy quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T16:31:16Z jsgrant: contrapunctus: Froggery has been working on it for years, I think it just got to the point where he felt he could post it; I doubt it's really stalled, he's probably just not pushed to master in a longtime or life has been busy and it's still just a side project to him -- so it's not on his main priority list.
2016-01-11T16:31:20Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T16:31:40Z jsgrant: I doubt he's 'done or similar, since on the repo it's marked as a demo.
2016-01-11T16:31:44Z jsgrant: in the*
2016-01-11T16:32:13Z jackdaniel: regarding the lisp OS'es, there is also interim (https://github.com/mntmn/interim)
2016-01-11T16:32:14Z jsgrant still hasn't really played with it yet, but is on his to do list.
2016-01-11T16:32:22Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-11T16:32:25Z contrapunctus: jsgrant: same here
2016-01-11T16:32:36Z contrapunctus: hey, jackdaniel . thanks, checking it out.
2016-01-11T16:32:56Z jsgrant: jackdaniel: Yeah, when they add usb support so I can use a generic keyboard I'll be a bit more interested. :^P
2016-01-11T16:33:14Z jsgrant: I vaguely recall that's higher on his priority list though.
2016-01-11T16:33:19Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:33:20Z contrapunctus: "The shell is the editor is the REPL is the language is the compiler." heh
2016-01-11T16:33:32Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T16:35:34Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-11T16:35:51Z contrapunctus is reading the 'documentation' in beach's LispOS repo. Nice - it seems like well-thought-out stuff (so far).
2016-01-11T16:36:00Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:37:07Z jsgrant: I was just thinking how limiting deving and OS and running it of a RPi would be .... then realized the laptop I'm running probably has lower specs than the second model it's targeted off from. :^I
2016-01-11T16:37:14Z jsgrant: an OS*
2016-01-11T16:37:50Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:38:24Z jsgrant: contrapunctus: Yeah, it's a really nice read.
2016-01-11T16:39:01Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T16:40:02Z cadadar quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T16:42:38Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:42:58Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:44:17Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:44:51Z froggey: contrapunctus: jsgrant is right, I've been busy with other stuff. don't worry, I'll keep working on it
2016-01-11T16:45:54Z rpg: Random portability question: I am wrapping LET around a top-level DEFUN to (on some implementations) control optimizations. By making the DEFUN non top-level, is this likely to make it less efficient? I have a vague memory of this not being A Good Thing To Do, but no specifics...
2016-01-11T16:46:00Z contrapunctus: whoa! :D
2016-01-11T16:46:20Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-11T16:46:36Z contrapunctus: froggey: I haven't run it yet but nevertheless - congratulations on this achievement, and thank you for sharing this work!
2016-01-11T16:47:01Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:47:08Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:47:22Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T16:47:48Z froggey: thanks
2016-01-11T16:48:01Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T16:48:17Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:48:45Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:48:48Z shka quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T16:49:40Z moore33: rpg: Well, obviously your function is now a closure, which may be less efficient than a non-closure, but also may be the best way to do what you want.
2016-01-11T16:50:16Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:52:09Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T16:52:15Z RealityVoid joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:52:25Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-11T16:54:27Z HardWall quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-11T16:54:55Z MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz
2016-01-11T16:55:11Z rpg: moore33: that's what I was thinking.  I see what I was doing wrong now, I think.
2016-01-11T17:01:08Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-11T17:02:24Z daimrod quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-11T17:04:09Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:07:20Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T17:08:38Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-11T17:08:45Z RealityVoid: Hello... i'm trying to learn lisp using Practical Common lisp and I installed lispbox on windows.. but none of the slime commands don't seem to work...
2016-01-11T17:09:10Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:11:22Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-11T17:13:03Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T17:13:46Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:14:36Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T17:14:42Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:15:39Z shka quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T17:15:56Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:16:06Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-11T17:16:12Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:16:29Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:18:21Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T17:19:41Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:20:13Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T17:21:10Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:21:15Z jasom: RealityVoid: the lispbox from there is a bit old, but I'm surprised it doesn't work at all... Can you give an example of what doesn't work (and how it doesn't work)?
2016-01-11T17:21:30Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T17:21:47Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T17:21:48Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:22:01Z RealityVoid: jasom, I got the lispbox from https://common-lisp.net/project/lispbox/ I didn't know that PCL site had a lispbox variant
2016-01-11T17:24:56Z jasom: RealityVoid: no, that's what I meant IIRC PCL linked to that, right?
2016-01-11T17:25:12Z RealityVoid: but it works, calling the command with M-x slime-close-all-parens-in-sexp for example works, and running slime commands in slime works, just the shortcuts don't seem to work... for example C-x C-] should call the same M-x slime-close-all-parens-in-sexp but that doesn't happen...
2016-01-11T17:25:26Z jasom: that's really annoying
2016-01-11T17:25:35Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T17:26:22Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T17:26:49Z jasom: I'm not near a functioning windows machine right now, but you can try this as well: http://www.iqool.de/lispstick.html#sec-4-1
2016-01-11T17:26:56Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:27:28Z mordocai: RealityVoid: I'd imagine you are hitting windows/emacs issues. Keybindings are something that don't always work the same across platforms.
2016-01-11T17:27:34Z mordocai: It is also using an old emacs which can'thelp
2016-01-11T17:27:46Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:28:19Z jasom doesn't have that keybinding in his map
2016-01-11T17:28:53Z lisp731 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:28:54Z jasom: but C-h k C-x C-] should at least tell you if emacs thinks it is bound
2016-01-11T17:29:06Z RealityVoid: jasom, thanks, I'll look into that... sorry if seeming noobish but yesterday was my first experience with emacs and lisp so I might ask silly thigs
2016-01-11T17:29:11Z phoe_krk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T17:29:13Z RealityVoid: jasom, it says the command isn't bound
2016-01-11T17:29:15Z jasom: RealityVoid: no, this is a totally legit problem
2016-01-11T17:29:37Z jasom: RealityVoid: so yeah, it thinks it isn't bound; did you add this keybinding, or expect it to be there already?
2016-01-11T17:29:43Z izwyt quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-11T17:30:28Z jasom: because in my fairly vanilla sime setup, I do not have this particular keybinding
2016-01-11T17:31:20Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T17:32:20Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:32:46Z RealityVoid: from my understanding it souhl be there already, no? I C-h f slime-close-all-parens-in-sexp and it has a link to slime-editing-commands.el... over there, we have (define-key slime-mode-map "\C-c\C-]" 'slime-close-all-parens-in-sexp)))
2016-01-11T17:32:58Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:33:26Z RealityVoid: should I manually add the slime-editing-commands.el or whould it be loaded by sefault on lispbox?
2016-01-11T17:34:03Z moore33: RealityVoid: Uh, it says C-c C-]
2016-01-11T17:34:10Z moore33: not C-x C-}
2016-01-11T17:34:16Z moore33: C-x C-]
2016-01-11T17:35:03Z RealityVoid: moore33, yes, I typoed into irc, that's what I used, sorry..
2016-01-11T17:35:24Z moore33: RealityVoid: OK. I have no further insight into your problem :)
2016-01-11T17:35:37Z jasom: okay, now *that* keybinding I have
2016-01-11T17:38:26Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:39:03Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:40:48Z RealityVoid: huh, wierd... did you guys recieve that i typed the C-x C-] as  C-x C-} ?
2016-01-11T17:41:59Z moore33: RealityVoid: No, that was my typo.
2016-01-11T17:43:31Z RealityVoid: oh, ok, thought something was wierd...
2016-01-11T17:43:59Z RealityVoid: Is there a shortcut to load an .el file while emacs is rumming by any chance?
2016-01-11T17:44:06Z jsgrant should look into Lispstick more, would be nice to potentially carry around a CL-dev env.
2016-01-11T17:45:18Z jsgrant: RealityVoid: Bind '(load-file "whatever.el") to something? I don't know if it's binded to any key chord by default though.
2016-01-11T17:45:32Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T17:45:58Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-11T17:46:28Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:46:37Z cmatei quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-11T17:46:55Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:47:00Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T17:52:04Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-11T17:52:31Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T17:52:46Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T17:54:02Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-11T17:55:00Z xantoz: RealityVoid: you can load files from inside dired-mode IIRC
2016-01-11T17:55:22Z xantoz: L
2016-01-11T17:56:41Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:01:03Z Joreji joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:05:02Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:05:35Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T18:05:52Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:06:48Z RealityVoid: So I tried running lispbox on my linux pc and it doesn't have that command mapped by default there either, so I should deff be doing something extra so those commands are active..
2016-01-11T18:08:14Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:11:25Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-11T18:12:16Z jasom: RealityVoid: wait, is this in the repl, or when editing a lisp file?
2016-01-11T18:12:51Z jsgrant: RealityVoid: Do you want to load, as in eval from, or to open it up to edit it?
2016-01-11T18:13:00Z jasom: that key is not bound in the repl, but it is bound when editing lisp files
2016-01-11T18:13:10Z jasom just noticed that
2016-01-11T18:13:25Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:14:04Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:14:26Z RealityVoid: shit... yeesh, that was it..
2016-01-11T18:14:33Z aphprentice joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:14:53Z RealityVoid: I knew it was something stupid.. :|
2016-01-11T18:15:55Z RealityVoid: how did you tell where the key is bound?
2016-01-11T18:17:17Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:17:47Z contrapunctus: RealityVoid: F1 k <press the key sequence>
2016-01-11T18:18:08Z contrapunctus: RealityVoid: alternatively, C-h instead of F1
2016-01-11T18:18:59Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:20:02Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-11T18:20:05Z Evolved joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:20:46Z Evolved is now known as HardWall
2016-01-11T18:20:51Z zch quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T18:21:00Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:21:17Z RealityVoid quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-11T18:21:28Z HardWall is now known as RealityVoid
2016-01-11T18:22:14Z RealityVoid: heh, my router needed a restart and when joining it's wierd seeing my nick getting timed-out
2016-01-11T18:22:47Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-11T18:23:40Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T18:25:52Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:25:54Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-11T18:31:37Z lisp731 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-11T18:32:26Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T18:33:43Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:35:02Z rvchangue_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T18:36:13Z rvchangue_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:44:35Z peppermachete quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T18:45:56Z peppermachete joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:46:24Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T18:46:43Z Yanez quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T18:47:01Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:47:04Z rvchangue_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-11T18:49:11Z rvchangue_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T18:54:36Z rvchangue_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-11T18:59:46Z nowhere_man quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T18:59:59Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:01:19Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:02:26Z Warlock[29A] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T19:03:32Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T19:04:17Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-11T19:04:19Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:04:26Z ipmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T19:04:59Z ipmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:08:08Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:16:03Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:18:34Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:22:39Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T19:23:51Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-11T19:24:22Z fikusz joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:25:45Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T19:27:43Z bin7me joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:28:43Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:31:37Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:35:03Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T19:36:12Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T19:37:14Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-11T19:37:49Z kanru joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:38:53Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:39:17Z sweater is now known as Guest12118
2016-01-11T19:42:59Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:45:12Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: "g'night, folks")
2016-01-11T19:45:22Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:47:28Z cpc26_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T19:47:58Z cpc26_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:48:04Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T19:50:35Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T19:50:38Z Warlock_29A quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-11T19:50:55Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T19:52:15Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T19:52:26Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:52:56Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:56:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T19:56:36Z knobo joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:57:36Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-11T19:57:37Z himmAllRight|W joined #lisp
2016-01-11T19:58:03Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:01:16Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:01:16Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:01:16Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-11T20:01:16Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:02:32Z angavrilov_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T20:06:49Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T20:07:32Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:08:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T20:10:28Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T20:14:35Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:17:21Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-11T20:18:16Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:19:03Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:21:55Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T20:23:29Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-11T20:24:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:24:15Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-11T20:24:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:24:31Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T20:24:56Z himmAllRight|W left #lisp
2016-01-11T20:28:45Z adhoc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:29:22Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:29:30Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:32:25Z Bor0 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:32:38Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T20:32:48Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:37:10Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:39:20Z pjb: dwchandler: when was the last time you could see the source code of a widget on your iPad or iPhone, edit it, compile it, and continue using your application with your modifications taken int account?
2016-01-11T20:40:20Z mordocai: pjb: nil
2016-01-11T20:40:22Z mordocai: :P
2016-01-11T20:41:33Z pjb: mordocai: beach = Robert Strandh ; beach = playa = strandh
2016-01-11T20:42:06Z pjb: mordocai: right. And that's why Lisp Machines are still hundreds of years ahead. :-)
2016-01-11T20:42:12Z dwchandler: pjb: yeah, that's definitely one thing :)
2016-01-11T20:43:19Z pjb: dwchandler: that said, other systems have integrated those features.  Smalltalk (Squeak). HyperCard (more or less).  emacs (more or less).
2016-01-11T20:43:36Z Bor0 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-11T20:44:06Z dwchandler: to a lesser degree, due to not running on a lisp os and being integrated with it, sure
2016-01-11T20:44:10Z pjb: dwchandler: while you could spend some times in designing a system that is inspectable and modifiable by the end-user, notice that it would be forbidden on iOS by Apple.
2016-01-11T20:44:53Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:45:00Z dlowe: Seems like I remember some Hypercard-like thing built with scheme as the primary language
2016-01-11T20:45:21Z myrkraverk: pjb: even if installed "by hand" by the end user?
2016-01-11T20:45:27Z dwchandler: pjb: my real question was more along the lines of: given working on unix, mac, windows, what's missing from emacs+SLIME that was there in the good ol' days
2016-01-11T20:46:04Z dwchandler: so stuff that about integrating with the OS or windowing system is interesting but not really applicable immediately
2016-01-11T20:46:12Z pjb: myrkraverk: By definition, if you can use Xcode and have paid the Apple Developer Program to get the developper key to sign the application that you install on your test device, you are not an end-user.
2016-01-11T20:47:03Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T20:47:13Z pjb: dwchandler: I guess the best would be to watch the youtube video you can find on lisp machines, and to readh the little documentation that is remaining. You can also run OpenGenera in an emulator.
2016-01-11T20:47:17Z myrkraverk: pjb: so it's not possible to download something from the 'net and install it "by hand" ?
2016-01-11T20:47:37Z pjb: myrkraverk: for a end-user, no. For a registered developper, yes.
2016-01-11T20:47:38Z dwchandler nods
2016-01-11T20:47:44Z myrkraverk: pjb: ok
2016-01-11T20:48:02Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T20:48:04Z mordocai: You can also do it through jailbreaking but whether or not that is legal has been debated lately
2016-01-11T20:48:23Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:48:23Z pjb: There's a reason Android has still some developer mindshare.
2016-01-11T20:51:43Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T20:52:14Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:56:00Z krypt joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:56:13Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-11T20:58:41Z freehck` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T20:59:04Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-11T20:59:17Z krypt quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T21:01:34Z myrkraverk: If I understand the American legal system correctly, it'll remain a "debate" until it goes through a judge.
2016-01-11T21:01:46Z myrkraverk: And even that will not solve the question in other jurisdictions.
2016-01-11T21:02:41Z prxq: myrkraverk: that's mostly the same in other legal systems.
2016-01-11T21:02:50Z myrkraverk: I see.
2016-01-11T21:03:12Z jaykru joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:03:37Z jasom: myrkraverk: or until the legislature passes a law that clearly makes it legal or illegal
2016-01-11T21:03:47Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T21:04:11Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-11T21:07:33Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:09:01Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:10:31Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:12:41Z bin7me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-11T21:13:45Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:14:55Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T21:15:25Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-11T21:18:58Z nzambe quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-11T21:19:29Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:20:03Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T21:23:50Z pjb: myrkraverk: of course.
2016-01-11T21:24:15Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T21:24:26Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-11T21:25:54Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:27:56Z killmaster quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T21:28:32Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:29:16Z killmaster joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:31:52Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:34:03Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T21:34:56Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-11T21:36:48Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T21:39:02Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:39:47Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:39:51Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:42:46Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-11T21:43:34Z danlentz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:43:44Z danlentz_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T21:44:50Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T21:46:48Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:47:53Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:49:28Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-11T21:50:35Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T21:50:36Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-11T21:52:13Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T21:53:13Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-11T21:53:59Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:55:49Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T21:58:08Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-11T21:58:35Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-11T21:59:03Z sid_cypher: i've just read LispOS documentation.  a big global address space with a nosql-like object store, RAM as a cache to that space, security by trusted compiler or usermode sandboxing - all those things seem doable and would be great to have.
2016-01-11T22:00:04Z sid_cypher: device drivers, however, would have to be reused from another OS as is - reimplementing them is not viable until strong AI :)
2016-01-11T22:02:27Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:03:03Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:04:27Z warweasle quit (Quit: Food!)
2016-01-11T22:05:02Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:06:15Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T22:09:35Z voidengineer joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:09:51Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T22:10:20Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T22:13:09Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:15:43Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-11T22:16:30Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-11T22:19:24Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-11T22:20:15Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:22:12Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T22:23:19Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:24:55Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T22:25:12Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-11T22:26:25Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:28:26Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T22:31:31Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:32:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T22:36:15Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T22:36:58Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T22:41:37Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-11T22:42:59Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:45:10Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T22:48:09Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:48:30Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T22:49:56Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-11T22:50:52Z rvchangue_ joined #lisp
2016-01-11T22:51:50Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-11T22:53:39Z jasom: sid_cypher: http://rumpkernel.org/ <-- good place to start for drivers; 2-clause BSD license
2016-01-11T22:56:18Z p_l: sid_cypher: single address space for all storage is... peculiar thing in practice
2016-01-11T22:56:35Z p_l: sid_cypher: That said, one company managed that and sold it quite well
2016-01-11T22:57:48Z sid_cypher: jasom: great link, thanks
2016-01-11T23:00:35Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-11T23:04:29Z jscg joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:04:52Z jscg left #lisp
2016-01-11T23:06:52Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:07:23Z Denommus: any stumpwm users here?
2016-01-11T23:07:32Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T23:07:33Z Denommus: is there a "standard" way of defining the default groups?
2016-01-11T23:08:45Z sid_cypher: p_l: oh, there would be a lot of peculiar things to such an OS, i'm sure :)  nevermind developer's practice, how about sticking an NTFS flash drive in and... dumping an object subset onto it, presumably with on-the-fly attribute metadate to file format metadata conversion (like ID3 or EXIF)
2016-01-11T23:09:09Z Bike: Denommus: #stumpwm
2016-01-11T23:11:13Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:12:18Z RealityVoid quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-11T23:13:18Z mtl_: Denommus: yes
2016-01-11T23:13:28Z mtl_: come to #stumpwm
2016-01-11T23:14:06Z mtl_: and I will try to help
2016-01-11T23:14:53Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:14:53Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-11T23:14:53Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:17:19Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:18:15Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:18:35Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T23:18:45Z ft joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:20:58Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:23:55Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T23:24:39Z p_l: sid_cypher: you might want to get a hold of AS/400, nowadays sold as IBM i
2016-01-11T23:25:25Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T23:25:59Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-11T23:26:13Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:26:51Z zch: New to programming, any tips on how I could write this better?: https://clbin.com/3R1ee - It's swapping the first and last elements of a list
2016-01-11T23:27:43Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-11T23:28:28Z jasom: zch; if destructive operations are okay: (rotatef (car list) (car (last list))
2016-01-11T23:29:07Z zch: Haven't learned about the rotate function, thanks
2016-01-11T23:29:31Z jasom: zch: note that this destructively modifies the list, which your original function does not do
2016-01-11T23:30:31Z zch: Yeah, my function is making a new list and operating on that
2016-01-11T23:31:06Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:31:50Z jasom: also your function won't work if there are duplicate elements in the list
2016-01-11T23:32:00Z jasom: clhs butlast
2016-01-11T23:32:00Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_butlas.htm
2016-01-11T23:32:10Z zch: jasom: yeah, saw that
2016-01-11T23:32:15Z zch: didnt know what to do about it
2016-01-11T23:34:25Z jasom: zch: hint: there is a primitive function in lisp that gives you all but the first item in a list
2016-01-11T23:35:20Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:35:27Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:35:35Z jasom: you'll also want to handle lists of 0 or 1 elements correctly (my short rotatef version does not handle empty-lists, btw)
2016-01-11T23:35:48Z jasom: but I have to go zch
2016-01-11T23:37:22Z zch: I could handle lists of 0 or 1 elements with cond
2016-01-11T23:37:28Z zch: or if actually
2016-01-11T23:38:06Z Warlock[29A] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-11T23:39:00Z puchacz quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T23:40:49Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:44:27Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:45:30Z puchacz quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-11T23:45:42Z pjb: zch: if the exercise is about manipulating cons cells, then you may want to copy the list yourself, and when reaching the last cell, exchange the car with that of the first one.
2016-01-11T23:45:52Z pjb: zch: thus providing O(n) time complexity.
2016-01-11T23:47:36Z zch: pjb: well the exercise just wanted me to swap the first and last elements of list, they didnt specify anything
2016-01-11T23:47:55Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-11T23:48:04Z zch: Which is manipulating cons cells
2016-01-11T23:49:43Z zch: modified: https://clbin.com/1JI0t
2016-01-11T23:49:51Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-11T23:50:25Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-11T23:50:42Z pjb: zch: still worse than jasom's.
2016-01-11T23:51:19Z pjb: zch: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304984
2016-01-11T23:52:11Z zch: Oh, thats nice
2016-01-11T23:52:31Z pjb: zch: yours walks the list 6 times, and copies it 5 times.
2016-01-11T23:52:55Z pjb: zch: said otherwise, it's horrible (when applied on long lists).
2016-01-11T23:55:52Z pjb: zch: http://paste.lisp.org/display/304984#1
2016-01-11T23:56:51Z pjb: zch: also, remove removes ALL the occurences: (let ((list '(1 2 1 2 1 2))) (remove (first list) list)) --> (2 2 2) ; oops
2016-01-11T23:57:14Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-11T23:57:43Z pjb: You can use :count (let ((list '(1 2 1 2 1 2))) (remove (first list) list :count 1)) --> (2 1 2 1 2)
2016-01-11T23:58:01Z zch: Yeah, there some things in your code im not familiar with at ll
2016-01-11T23:58:03Z zch: all*
2016-01-11T23:58:14Z zch: like the :count and other things that begin with :
2016-01-11T23:58:17Z pjb: Only pure Common Lisp.
2016-01-11T23:58:17Z pjb:  
2016-01-11T23:58:25Z pjb: You've used REMOVE, therefore you should have read
2016-01-11T23:58:26Z pjb: clhs remove
2016-01-11T23:58:26Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm
2016-01-11T23:58:33Z pjb: and therefore you should know about the :count parameter.
2016-01-11T23:58:36Z zch: And ive never seen (let (head tail old) that form
2016-01-11T23:58:45Z zch: where your defining 3 variable names at once?
2016-01-11T23:58:50Z pjb: similarly, you've used it, so you MUST have read
2016-01-11T23:58:52Z pjb: clhs let
2016-01-11T23:58:52Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm
2016-01-11T23:58:57Z pjb: and know about this syntax.
2016-01-11T23:59:41Z pjb: When you use words, it is expected you have read their definition in the dictionary.
2016-01-11T23:59:53Z zch: I haven't read much documentation to be honest
2016-01-11T23:59:59Z zch: But I am now, thanks
2016-01-12T00:00:03Z pjb: zch: you know, the littl red button…
2016-01-12T00:00:28Z pjb: zch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuamSKIvhcA
2016-01-12T00:02:18Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T00:04:13Z zch: lol
2016-01-12T00:07:23Z voidengineer quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-12T00:12:52Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T00:14:55Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T00:18:54Z prxq quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-12T00:19:26Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T00:20:39Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T00:21:45Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T00:24:14Z lisse quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-12T00:24:52Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T00:27:11Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T00:28:44Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T00:31:42Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T00:42:56Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T00:43:43Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-12T00:44:55Z killmaster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T00:45:18Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T00:45:20Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T00:45:23Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T00:46:46Z killmaster joined #lisp
2016-01-12T00:47:46Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T00:48:01Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T00:52:55Z jtza8_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T00:52:55Z jtza8 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T00:56:01Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:09:36Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T01:12:19Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:15:10Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-12T01:18:09Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-12T01:22:28Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:24:14Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:25:04Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-12T01:25:23Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T01:27:15Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T01:30:10Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:30:20Z cpc26_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T01:31:14Z jtza8_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T01:33:32Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:35:53Z cpc26_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:36:21Z cpc26 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T01:36:55Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:40:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T01:42:52Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:47:27Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:54:21Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-12T01:56:15Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T01:59:26Z bcoburn_d joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:00:12Z bcoburn_d quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T02:00:37Z lisse quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-12T02:03:52Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T02:03:55Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T02:08:38Z ahungry joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:09:04Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:10:35Z tadpole joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:10:37Z tadpole left #lisp
2016-01-12T02:19:22Z Myk267 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-12T02:23:13Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:23:57Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:27:55Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T02:30:53Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T02:32:46Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:37:41Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:42:30Z Guest12118 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T02:42:38Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:43:35Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T02:46:52Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:49:53Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T02:50:42Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:51:47Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-12T02:51:55Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T02:54:17Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T02:58:11Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T03:00:23Z aphprentice quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-12T03:08:45Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:12:04Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:17:02Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T03:20:16Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:21:10Z zophy quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T03:23:25Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-12T03:23:58Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:26:27Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:27:04Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:27:12Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-12T03:28:55Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T03:31:55Z beach: Any CLX experts around?  Maybe nyef?  On my computer, I have modified the keyboard mapping (using a GUI tool) so that my CapsLock is another Control key.  My CLX now returns the keycode for the CapsLock key both in the list of lock keycodes and in the list of control keycodes.
2016-01-12T03:31:56Z beach: Unfortunately, the McCLIM CLX backend seems to rely on it occurring in at most one of the lists.  I need to figure out whether this is a bug in the X11 server, a bug in CLX, or whether there is a way in CLX to query the server for the current modifier state.
2016-01-12T03:33:00Z trinitr0n: ls
2016-01-12T03:33:18Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:34:17Z beach: Also, in the McCLIM CLX backend, there is a comment, presumably by gilberth, that for CLIM we want the modifier state as it is AFTER some key has been pressed, rather than BEFORE as is reported by the X server.  Why do we want that?  So that we can show pointer documentation and such?
2016-01-12T03:35:21Z mtl_: beach: I've done a similar thing in my xmodmap, setting capslock to hyper
2016-01-12T03:35:41Z mtl_: and I'm using stumpwm which is clx based
2016-01-12T03:35:57Z mtl_: it works fine though
2016-01-12T03:36:10Z ramky_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:36:15Z beach: Sure.  CLX correctly reports the modifier state, so that's not the problem.
2016-01-12T03:36:22Z mtl_: ah
2016-01-12T03:36:38Z mtl_: any use in me replicating it?
2016-01-12T03:36:39Z beach: The problem is that it appears to be impossible to deduce the modifier state using all the other information.
2016-01-12T03:36:53Z beach: The problem?
2016-01-12T03:36:57Z mtl_: yeah
2016-01-12T03:37:08Z beach: Thanks but no.  I know loke has it too.
2016-01-12T03:37:18Z mtl_: ok then
2016-01-12T03:37:24Z beach: And I know (as of yesterday) what the problem is.
2016-01-12T03:39:11Z beach: I could patch the return values of XLIB:MODIFIER-MAPPING so that a keycode occurs in at most one of the returned lists, but that would truly be a kludge.
2016-01-12T03:39:17Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T03:40:58Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-12T03:41:34Z jsgrant waits for another decade, where Wayland is hopefully ubiquitous and most of this stuff will just be handled by a custom CL Compositor.
2016-01-12T03:41:52Z loke: The key problem in climacs?
2016-01-12T03:41:55Z loke: Yes, I have it. Annoying.
2016-01-12T03:42:12Z loke: beach: What is the problem caused by?
2016-01-12T03:43:17Z beach: The X11 server returns the CapsLock keycode as a member both of the list of lock keycodes and the list of control keycodes, but the McCLIM CLX backend assumes it is in at most one of the lists.
2016-01-12T03:44:17Z beach: If you start your Common Lisp, then open the default display, then call XLIB:MODIFIER-MAPPING, there should be a keycode that appears both in the second and in the third return value.
2016-01-12T03:44:46Z Quadrescence quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T03:45:11Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:45:11Z loke: beach: So mcclim maked a bad assumption. The fix should be simple, no?
2016-01-12T03:45:15Z beach: No.
2016-01-12T03:45:34Z beach: If this behavior is correct, it is very annoying because then there is no way to query the X server for the current modifier state.
2016-01-12T03:45:52Z beach: And no way to deduce it from previous events.
2016-01-12T03:47:37Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T03:48:03Z loke: That's right. I don't think there is a way to query for modifier state. You have to track it.
2016-01-12T03:48:04Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T03:48:13Z loke: Oh wait
2016-01-12T03:48:23Z beach: I suspect (but I haven't gotten that far yet) that McCLIM uses this information to show pointer documentation.  So if you hold a control key down, the information displayed concerns button presses with the control modifier.  But if there is no way to find that out, then we are in trouble.
2016-01-12T03:48:34Z loke: no need to. Don't you get the modifier state as a bitmap tigether with every other KeyDown and KeyUp event?
2016-01-12T03:48:57Z beach: I get the modifier state BEFORE the key is pressed.
2016-01-12T03:49:13Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:49:18Z beach: But I need to know it AFTER, so that when a control key is pressed, I know that the control key is down.
2016-01-12T03:49:54Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:50:01Z marusich joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:50:37Z Zhivago: http://www.x.org/archive/X11R7.5/doc/x11proto/proto.pdf
2016-01-12T03:50:39Z beach: So suppose there are currently no modifier keys pressed.  Then someone hits CapsLock.  Now, is the control modifier pressed, or the lock modifier?  No way of knowing.
2016-01-12T03:50:52Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-12T03:51:03Z Zhivago: The KeyPress event carries the modifier state.
2016-01-12T03:51:19Z beach: It carries the modifier state BEFORE the key was pressed.
2016-01-12T03:52:38Z loke: You get get a KeyPress event for the key "a", say. And you hold Control at the same time, the KeyPress event for "a" will carry the modifier information for "control"
2016-01-12T03:53:02Z Zhivago: Perhaps beach is concerned about when you press the modifier key itself?
2016-01-12T03:53:19Z beach: loke: Correct, but if you (or I) press CapsLock, the modifier state will not include control.
2016-01-12T03:53:27Z loke: If so, then you'll get a KeyPress event for the "control" keycode. The modifiers doesn't even come into the picture.
2016-01-12T03:53:46Z Zhivago: Yeah. I'm not sure what the problem here is.
2016-01-12T03:53:48Z loke: beach: Caps Lock is special, if I remember correctly.
2016-01-12T03:54:00Z beach: loke: And that is the problem.
2016-01-12T03:54:02Z Zhivago: Is it about figuring out if the control keycode corresponds to a given modifier?
2016-01-12T03:54:46Z beach: Zhivago: It is about figuring out, given what key was pressed, what modifier that keypress changed, if any.
2016-01-12T03:54:50Z loke: beach: I can't see how caps lock is causing the problem, since I don't even have caps lock mapped on my keyboard.
2016-01-12T03:55:24Z beach: loke: And that is the problem because XLIB:MODIFIER-MAPPING still reports it as a LOCK modifier keycode.
2016-01-12T03:56:12Z loke: beach: You can't do that. Look at it like this: You may press Control when a differnt window is active, and then hold it down, move the mouse to your window and press a. That deliveres a KeyPress event with th "control" modifier to your application, but you never got the KeyPress for Control since that event was delivered to a different window.
2016-01-12T03:56:35Z beach: Yes, good point.
2016-01-12T03:57:09Z Zhivago: Hmm, is there a concrete example of the behavior you want? Why are you trying to predict state changes based on key presses?
2016-01-12T03:57:35Z beach: I think it has to do with McCLIM displaying pointer documentation, but I am not (yet) sure of that.
2016-01-12T03:58:17Z beach: So that if you press (say) a control key, the pointer documentation will change to show only what happens when you press a button with the control modifier in effect.
2016-01-12T03:59:02Z Zhivago: Is that undesirable?
2016-01-12T03:59:33Z beach: I might have to declare it impossible to do pointer documentation this way.
2016-01-12T03:59:37Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-12T03:59:57Z loke: Don't you get modifier bits together with mouse events?
2016-01-12T04:00:01Z beach: As loke pointed out, I might not receive the event for the control key being pressed.
2016-01-12T04:00:09Z alvin- joined #lisp
2016-01-12T04:00:42Z beach: loke: It attempts to display documentation SO THAT YOU KNOW WHAT BUTTON TO PRESS, not so that you know what you just did.
2016-01-12T04:00:43Z Zhivago: Well, you don't need to because the window crossing event will carry that state?
2016-01-12T04:01:15Z beach: Zhivago: Really, I didn't realize those events had the state in them.  Maybe they do.
2016-01-12T04:02:05Z loke: If you just listen for all events, you can get a pretty good idea of the modifier state by just tracking the bits in them. If it include all KeyDown/KeyUp events plus the mouse events you're decently covered?
2016-01-12T04:02:21Z Zhivago: Hmm, let's check the spec.
2016-01-12T04:02:45Z jason_m quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-12T04:03:45Z beach: loke: Except when the key-press event is of a modifier key.  Then you don't know the modifier state AFTER they key was pressed.
2016-01-12T04:03:51Z Zhivago: Looks like MotionNotify carries the key-and-button state with it.
2016-01-12T04:04:27Z loke: beach: Yeah, so what you really want is somehow one more event after that...
2016-01-12T04:05:00Z Zhivago: Ok, I see the problem.
2016-01-12T04:05:34Z loke: Zhivago: Yes. Me too. Inetersting one.
2016-01-12T04:05:39Z beach: Thanks for doing this, both of you.
2016-01-12T04:05:58Z beach: I now see that I need a different way of tracking modifier state.
2016-01-12T04:06:24Z loke: I'm starting to think if there is some way of using XTEST to inject a synthetic (unused) keypress after the other one just to check the state.
2016-01-12T04:06:39Z beach: That would be one possibility.
2016-01-12T04:06:57Z loke: That said, I's been years (decades) since I last touched XTEST so I honestly don't know if that's a viable approach.
2016-01-12T04:07:40Z beach: There are several options here.  I need to contemplate them before deciding something.
2016-01-12T04:08:04Z Zhivago: Hmm. Looks like MotionNotify needs to inform you of state changes, which makes sense.
2016-01-12T04:08:22Z Zhivago: e.g., for rubberbanding delimited by a modifier.
2016-01-12T04:08:31Z beach: AHA!
2016-01-12T04:08:32Z Zhivago: In which case, perhaps the problem doesn't actually exist.
2016-01-12T04:08:41Z beach: query-pointer returns the state it seems.
2016-01-12T04:08:49Z Zhivago: You could also poll that.
2016-01-12T04:09:16Z loke: beach: What does query-pointer map to?
2016-01-12T04:09:31Z beach: "map to"?
2016-01-12T04:09:40Z Zhivago: It queries the state of the pointer.
2016-01-12T04:09:50Z loke: beach: What Xlib call does it do?
2016-01-12T04:09:50Z beach: Duh! :)
2016-01-12T04:09:51Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-12T04:10:06Z beach: loke: It doesn't map to any Xlib calls.
2016-01-12T04:10:07Z alvin- quit (Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients)
2016-01-12T04:10:14Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-12T04:10:19Z beach: loke: CLX goes directly to the protocol.
2016-01-12T04:10:23Z alvin- joined #lisp
2016-01-12T04:10:24Z alvin- left #lisp
2016-01-12T04:10:32Z loke: beach: Ah yeah, but Xlib also does that.
2016-01-12T04:10:39Z Zhivago: XQueryPointer.
2016-01-12T04:10:47Z loke: beach: Almost all Xlib calls maps 1-to-1 to an Xprotocol call.
2016-01-12T04:10:55Z Zhivago: They weren't very imaginative, fortunately. :)
2016-01-12T04:11:15Z loke: Ah right. So XQueryPointer will return the modifier mask. There you have it.
2016-01-12T04:11:27Z Zhivago: Yeah, but you don't really want to do that if you can avoid it.
2016-01-12T04:11:46Z Zhivago: See if MotionNotify will tell you about modifier state changes.
2016-01-12T04:11:54Z loke: Zhivago: He can do it after every KeyPress event of a modifier key
2016-01-12T04:12:10Z loke: Zhivago: It doesn't. At least xev doesn't do it.
2016-01-12T04:12:19Z loke: Zhivago: And xev print s all events, AFAIK
2016-01-12T04:12:26Z loke: It does give motion notify events.
2016-01-12T04:12:40Z loke: (and I din't get a MptionNotify when I press any key)
2016-01-12T04:13:04Z Zhivago: Hmm, ah well.
2016-01-12T04:13:13Z ramky_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T04:16:16Z beach: This is great!  I have a much better picture of what my options are.
2016-01-12T04:19:24Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T04:20:41Z adhoc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T04:24:43Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T04:25:34Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-12T04:25:49Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T04:27:10Z lonjil joined #lisp
2016-01-12T04:29:46Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T04:30:58Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T04:31:23Z beach: Step 1: verify that the information about the current modifier state is used only for pointer documentation.
2016-01-12T04:31:28Z beach: If so, then Step 2: remove the bogus attempt at tracking the current modifier state by looking at key-press and key-release events, since that technique doesn't work anyway.
2016-01-12T04:31:33Z beach: Step 3: Figure out a different way of tracking modifier state.
2016-01-12T04:31:34Z beach: Step 4: implement it.
2016-01-12T04:31:38Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T04:32:12Z beach: It will temporarily break pointer documentation, but at least ESA applications will work again.
2016-01-12T04:33:24Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T04:37:19Z loke: Yay
2016-01-12T04:37:47Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T04:47:29Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T04:49:04Z joneshf-laptop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T04:51:23Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T05:02:48Z scottj joined #lisp
2016-01-12T05:05:12Z kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-12T05:08:16Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-12T05:13:47Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T05:15:29Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-12T05:17:46Z drmeister: Hey lispers,  (defmethod foo :around (x) (bar x) (call-next-method)) (defmethod foo (y) (baz y))   is equivalent to (defun foo-fun (x) (bar x) (baz x)) - correct?
2016-01-12T05:18:29Z H4ns: for some value of "equivalent", yes.
2016-01-12T05:18:36Z nyef: Modulo redefinition semantics, yes.
2016-01-12T05:18:37Z drmeister: I'm reading someone else's code and I don't see why they made foo a generic function.
2016-01-12T05:18:54Z H4ns: because they could?
2016-01-12T05:19:00Z drmeister: Right - redefinition semantics.
2016-01-12T05:19:09Z nyef: And can't you use a :before qualifier there instead of :around?
2016-01-12T05:19:12Z Bike: because letting people write their own methods is nice sometimes
2016-01-12T05:19:36Z drmeister: Right, all good reasons.
2016-01-12T05:20:15Z hyunh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T05:20:30Z drmeister: I'm not criticizing, I'm reimplementing stuff in C++ and I need equivalent behavior.
2016-01-12T05:21:13Z nyef: ... why?
2016-01-12T05:21:59Z nyef: (Why reimplement in C++, that is, not why equivalent behavior.)
2016-01-12T05:22:10Z Petit_Dejeuner: Is it from C++ or to C++?
2016-01-12T05:22:45Z drmeister: To C++ and it's a side project.
2016-01-12T05:23:04Z kazlock quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T05:23:51Z H4ns: "we can't help with such foolish things" :D
2016-01-12T05:24:58Z mordocai: Yeah,  you are bad and you should feel bad
2016-01-12T05:25:03Z mordocai: :P
2016-01-12T05:25:52Z loke: How do you even do generic functions in C++
2016-01-12T05:25:53Z loke: ?
2016-01-12T05:26:07Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-12T05:27:08Z nyef: loke: With or without redefinition semantics?
2016-01-12T05:27:19Z nyef: Also, with or without EQL-specializers?
2016-01-12T05:28:38Z loke: I don't know. I was just curious :-)
2016-01-12T05:28:52Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T05:28:55Z loke: Apparently drmeister has _something_ or he wouldn't ask, right?
2016-01-12T05:29:13Z nyef: There's a spectrum of techniques, from simply virtual methods to VisitorPattern to InterpreterPattern.
2016-01-12T05:29:37Z nyef: Well, in this case, it was more a question of "what's the semantics of this construct?" than anything else.
2016-01-12T05:29:52Z nyef: And it was in terms of a normal function, not a generic.
2016-01-12T05:30:20Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T05:36:01Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T05:38:05Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-12T05:43:28Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-12T05:45:12Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-12T05:46:19Z drmeister: nyef: I just send a /msg to you - did that get through?
2016-01-12T05:47:05Z nyef: Ah, it did, but I was focussed on something else, and I have so many tabs open on IRC that it's easy to miss. Looking there now.
2016-01-12T05:47:29Z drmeister: irccloud has a couple of options and I randomly hit one or the other and I'm never sure which is the right one.
2016-01-12T05:52:46Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T05:56:38Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T06:01:06Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-12T06:03:50Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T06:06:02Z the_signalman joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:06:06Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:07:28Z zch quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-12T06:07:45Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:08:06Z trinque quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T06:08:23Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:10:13Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:14:29Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:20:20Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:23:02Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:25:06Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T06:25:37Z zch quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-12T06:27:08Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:27:53Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:30:45Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T06:32:35Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T06:40:34Z Howling joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:46:42Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:48:05Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T06:53:52Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:54:33Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:54:40Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2016-01-12T06:56:08Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:57:46Z lokien_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T06:58:40Z lokien_: how is cl compared to clojure? in terms of productivity and performance
2016-01-12T06:59:06Z beach: lokien_: That is a very strange question.
2016-01-12T06:59:18Z beach: lokien_: First of all, we don't know how to measure productivity.
2016-01-12T06:59:35Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T06:59:39Z lokien_: beach: I want your subjective opinions
2016-01-12T06:59:41Z beach: lokien_: Second, this channel is dedicated to Common Lisp, so you won't get an unbiased answer.
2016-01-12T06:59:49Z lokien_: yeah, I know that
2016-01-12T06:59:56Z beach: lokien_: Third, performance is not a language question, but an implementation question.
2016-01-12T07:01:06Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:01:42Z lokien_: beach: I think pretty much the same algorithm written in ruby would be slower than the same algorithm written in c
2016-01-12T07:01:43Z ecraven: beach: doesn't language design at least play a bit into performance?
2016-01-12T07:02:29Z beach: lokien_: That's because you confuse language and implementation.  I can imagine an implementation of C that is slower than the slowest implementation of Ruby.
2016-01-12T07:02:52Z flip214: lokien_: there are ruby compilers, and C interpreters.
2016-01-12T07:03:12Z lokien_: beach: so.. compare implementation of cl to clojure?
2016-01-12T07:03:27Z beach: ecraven: Sure.  Some languages make it very hard to generate good code.
2016-01-12T07:03:48Z flip214: lokien_: clojure and lisp are approximately equal in terms of abstraction, so they can get similar compiler optimizations.
2016-01-12T07:04:04Z flip214: clojure perhaps even more, because it has some guarantees about non-mutability (like FORTRAN had)
2016-01-12T07:04:22Z salv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T07:04:43Z lokien_: flip214: what about biased and subjective productivity in cl?
2016-01-12T07:05:39Z Bike: there are so many, many variables you could measure "productivity" as a function of, what's the point on focusing on this one
2016-01-12T07:05:54Z flip214: lokien_: while I've toyed a bit in CL (and it feels good, especially with swank), I can't offer a comparison with clojure.
2016-01-12T07:06:31Z lokien_: I find writing in cl hard, while writing clojure is pretty simple amd easy, I want to know what I'm missing
2016-01-12T07:06:35Z Bike: it's not even a matter of biased estimates, it's leaving so many things undefined and argh
2016-01-12T07:06:44Z lokien_: s/amd/and
2016-01-12T07:06:52Z flip214: lokien_: IMO, having enough experience to find out what data structures are needed makes much more difference to "productivity" than the language.
2016-01-12T07:07:24Z flip214: so if you're happy with clojure, stay around ... I might have questions in the future ;)
2016-01-12T07:08:26Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:08:47Z lokien_: oh, well, I thought you guys would be better with advertising. I'll stay with clojure then
2016-01-12T07:09:15Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:09:42Z trinque joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:09:56Z beach: lokien_: #lisp participants prefer to be honest and informative.
2016-01-12T07:10:08Z beach: lokien_: Perhaps that's not the case in other channels?
2016-01-12T07:10:24Z lokien_: beach: I didn't get much information from you, to be honest
2016-01-12T07:10:42Z flip214: lokien_: oh, if it's advertising you sought.... CL has a bigger heap of books!
2016-01-12T07:10:45Z lokien_: I have a feeling you assume that I'm stupid or something
2016-01-12T07:10:47Z beach: lokien_: Me personally?  That's normal.  Your question is off topic.
2016-01-12T07:10:48Z H4ns: lokien_: maybe you want to stick to discussing common lisp rather than your feelings.
2016-01-12T07:11:17Z lokien_: I wanted to, H4ns
2016-01-12T07:11:23Z flip214: lokien_: does clojure have only hygienic macros? don't know OTTOMH
2016-01-12T07:11:25Z H4ns: lokien_: you can still do it.
2016-01-12T07:11:35Z H4ns: flip214: no.  but that is off-topic.
2016-01-12T07:11:49Z lokien_: so what is on topic?
2016-01-12T07:11:50Z flip214: well, if it doesn't, that's a plus for CL - IMO ;)
2016-01-12T07:11:59Z H4ns: flip214: it does.
2016-01-12T07:12:04Z H4ns: lokien_: common lisp.
2016-01-12T07:12:12Z beach: lokien_: Common Lisp, implementations of it, applications, libraries, etc.
2016-01-12T07:12:55Z flip214: lokien_: quicklisp might be an advantage for CL, c.t. clojure.
2016-01-12T07:13:04Z flip214: with all the available libraries...
2016-01-12T07:13:20Z beach: lokien_: There are also a fair number of newcomers here on a regular basis, so if you want information about Common Lisp, then just ask.
2016-01-12T07:13:28Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:14:58Z lokien_: I wanted you to clarify some things about cl. but now I won't disturb you, have fun with your perfect crystalline pyramids
2016-01-12T07:15:12Z lokien_: thanks flip214 though, have a good day
2016-01-12T07:15:15Z lokien_ left #lisp
2016-01-12T07:15:19Z H4ns: lokien_: yeah.  have a nice day.
2016-01-12T07:15:21Z flip214: lokien_: if you have specific questions, just go ahead...
2016-01-12T07:15:38Z flip214: but I can't tell you "X is better than Y" if I don't know about Y, sorry about that.
2016-01-12T07:15:46Z flip214: I guess #java or #php is better in that, though ;)
2016-01-12T07:15:56Z beach: flip214: lokien_ left.
2016-01-12T07:15:57Z H4ns: flip214: they're just trolling, leave them alone.
2016-01-12T07:16:30Z flip214: H4ns: didn't sound like that to me.... but now she's gone anyway.
2016-01-12T07:16:42Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-12T07:17:32Z ieure quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:17:34Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:17:39Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T07:17:49Z beach agrees with H4ns' analysis.
2016-01-12T07:18:11Z tclamb quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:20:42Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:21:34Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:22:14Z tclamb joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:22:38Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:23:05Z ieure joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:23:54Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:24:45Z UtkarshRay quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T07:25:08Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:25:39Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:26:01Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:27:06Z Creator|away joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:27:06Z Creator|away quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T07:27:13Z UtkarshRay quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T07:27:26Z jsgrant quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:28:01Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:28:30Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:30:47Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:32:06Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T07:32:47Z freehck` joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:37:36Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:38:03Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:39:22Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T07:39:28Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:40:15Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:42:08Z Howl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:42:18Z przl quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T07:42:24Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:42:29Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:42:42Z Howling quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T07:43:04Z Indecipherable__ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:43:59Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:45:15Z freehck` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T07:45:24Z freehck` joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:46:47Z Howl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:46:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:49:23Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T07:51:36Z Indecipherable__ quit (Quit: :tiuQ)
2016-01-12T07:55:18Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:56:31Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:57:21Z knobo joined #lisp
2016-01-12T07:57:31Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-12T08:01:23Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T08:03:20Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:07:41Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:07:58Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:08:21Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T08:09:46Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:11:02Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:19:33Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:24:29Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T08:24:52Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-12T08:25:12Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:26:26Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:28:11Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T08:29:05Z PuercoPop: flip214: they were probably trolling unknowingly at best.
2016-01-12T08:33:46Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T08:34:14Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:34:24Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:35:58Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:36:58Z bolichep quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-12T08:39:11Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:39:17Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:41:09Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T08:41:14Z hyunh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T08:41:31Z hyunh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:42:34Z marusich quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-12T08:43:38Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:43:39Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:45:35Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T08:46:15Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T08:49:10Z moore33: Common Lisp in Hacker News! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10879557
2016-01-12T08:51:27Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T08:56:35Z synchromesh: Ooh, I like the #'() in "(keep-if #'(and integerp evenp) '(1 2 3 2.0 4))".
2016-01-12T08:58:46Z moore33: Anyone know much about CL21? Does it require any active changes to implementations? Hierarchical packages, maybe?
2016-01-12T08:58:47Z prxq: progress! at last! when do we get the curly braces?
2016-01-12T08:59:50Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:01:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:03:30Z Cymew: ...and semicolons?
2016-01-12T09:04:25Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:04:45Z PuercoPop: moore33: it is implemented in CL, so no changes needed. Just load the code to use
2016-01-12T09:05:09Z prxq: oh cool, edi has a book out! https://www.apress.com/9781484211779
2016-01-12T09:05:19Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:08:23Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T09:11:20Z shka: sadly it is rather expensive
2016-01-12T09:13:07Z Cymew: Well. Kind of expected price, I'd say.
2016-01-12T09:13:11Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:13:28Z Cymew: "Generating graphical user interfaces for desktop operating systems or mobile devices." - i wonder what that part is about.
2016-01-12T09:15:22Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:17:16Z splittist: Cymew: JQuery and Ajax; Ltk; Java; CAPI; MOCL
2016-01-12T09:18:03Z loke: I prefer Lofn
2016-01-12T09:19:36Z splittist: loke: you would (:
2016-01-12T09:19:45Z loke: Of course :-)
2016-01-12T09:19:55Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:20:10Z loke: It's possible that I have the most efficient termplate engine in existence though :-)
2016-01-12T09:24:02Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:25:00Z shka: does mocl support threads?
2016-01-12T09:26:05Z shka: btw, any idea how mocl folks are doing?
2016-01-12T09:26:16Z hyunh` joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:26:18Z shka: i'm wonder if there is any market for that
2016-01-12T09:26:37Z hyunh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T09:27:51Z moore33: I wouldn't mind reading about ECL on Android. As I've said many times here, Maxima for Android blows me away.
2016-01-12T09:30:06Z splittist: One potential benefit of Edi's presentation as a series of problem statements and worked examples is that alternative solutions can be presented while picking up all his context. loke could provide his lofn version of Recipe 20-1, for example. (Perhaps not the best example.)
2016-01-12T09:31:23Z loke: moore33: wow. I didn't know about it
2016-01-12T09:31:42Z loke: moore33: I wonder whar maths renderer they use. I have a need for one for the potato client for andorid.
2016-01-12T09:31:43Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:32:05Z moore33: loke: MathJAX, I think... that mean anything to you? :)
2016-01-12T09:32:21Z loke: Hmm, that suggests they are rendering to a WebView?
2016-01-12T09:32:30Z loke: I'm not using WebView, so that's not useful.
2016-01-12T09:33:29Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:36:15Z chishiki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:38:48Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:41:20Z chishiki joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:42:07Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:45:37Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T09:46:14Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T09:50:57Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:51:20Z Cymew: splittist: You've read it?
2016-01-12T09:51:33Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:51:35Z replcated_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:52:21Z splittist: Cymew: I'm reading it. And enjoying doing so.
2016-01-12T09:52:30Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:52:47Z Bike joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:52:55Z cpc26_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:52:57Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:53:15Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:53:23Z salva quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:53:48Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:53:49Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T09:54:43Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:54:46Z splittist: Cymew: I think it will be an essential book for any lisp shop. It's the next obvious book to read after PCL.
2016-01-12T09:55:07Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:56:13Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:56:57Z salva joined #lisp
2016-01-12T09:58:46Z Bahman joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:00:02Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T10:05:04Z sepi quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T10:05:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:05:21Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-12T10:05:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:05:57Z sepi joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:06:46Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:09:53Z Cymew: Sounds good.
2016-01-12T10:10:53Z Cymew: I had planned on getting it, but had forgotten. So thanks for the reminder!
2016-01-12T10:10:56Z djh: That the 'recipies' book? I've been impressed with it so far
2016-01-12T10:12:49Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T10:13:36Z Heranort quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-12T10:15:46Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T10:16:03Z loke: I'm still waiting for my paper copy of the book.
2016-01-12T10:16:15Z salva quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T10:16:47Z mvilleneuve__ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:17:24Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:17:41Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:19:38Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T10:19:39Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T10:19:39Z nowhere_man quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T10:20:10Z salva joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:25:56Z PuercoPop: loke: btw I saw you created a repo for a cl implementation of transit. Have you seen this one? https://github.com/gtod/transit-cl
2016-01-12T10:26:10Z loke: PuercoPop: No. I have not seen that.
2016-01-12T10:27:30Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:27:49Z loke: PuercoPop: Who made it?
2016-01-12T10:28:23Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T10:29:05Z PuercoPop: gtod, of whom I know nothing except that he occasionally contributes to orthocreedence's libraries.
2016-01-12T10:30:27Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:30:31Z loke: The implementation looks decent enough by first look.
2016-01-12T10:30:45Z loke: I will try to use it before continuing on my own project.
2016-01-12T10:34:34Z loke: The main difference seems to be that this code is based on yason, while mine uses json-streams.
2016-01-12T10:36:28Z mbuf quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T10:38:35Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T10:39:48Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-12T10:40:29Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T10:44:45Z otwieracz: what about foo.service.enable = bar.service.enable?
2016-01-12T10:44:50Z otwieracz: oops, not here
2016-01-12T10:45:04Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-12T10:46:38Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T10:57:35Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T11:00:18Z pbgc quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T11:02:57Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:07:43Z mvilleneuve__ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-12T11:10:14Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T11:10:40Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:12:01Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T11:12:24Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:15:20Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:21:36Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:28:30Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:30:00Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T11:34:49Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-12T11:34:56Z Zhivago quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T11:35:23Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:35:58Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T11:36:38Z Bike joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:38:45Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T11:38:50Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T11:41:16Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:42:09Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T11:43:01Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:44:06Z scottj quit (Quit: Changing server)
2016-01-12T11:45:27Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:46:04Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T11:46:40Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T11:50:03Z dstatyvka left #lisp
2016-01-12T11:50:14Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-12T11:50:15Z dstatyvka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:50:17Z dstatyvka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T11:50:28Z dstatyvka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:50:31Z dstatyvka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T11:50:43Z dstatyvka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:50:46Z dstatyvka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T11:50:59Z dstatyvka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:51:35Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:52:19Z shka quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T11:52:40Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:53:02Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:53:17Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T11:53:28Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:57:09Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-12T11:58:40Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:01:32Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T12:01:35Z vap1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T12:01:45Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:02:24Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T12:02:27Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:03:05Z anti-fre_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:03:38Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:03:41Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T12:04:08Z shka_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T12:04:35Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:05:05Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:05:50Z Fleurety quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T12:09:34Z shka_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T12:10:48Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T12:10:52Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:11:06Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:13:14Z lonjil quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2016-01-12T12:13:21Z lonjil joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:17:24Z hyunh` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-12T12:19:01Z test1600_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-12T12:24:27Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T12:35:01Z mvilleneuve__ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:37:36Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:39:20Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-12T12:40:08Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:40:21Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-12T12:40:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:43:29Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:43:42Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:46:30Z anti-fre_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T12:46:56Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:48:30Z SAL9000 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T12:51:19Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:51:27Z anti-freeze quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T12:54:26Z HannahThePanda joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:54:29Z wgslayer joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:54:42Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:55:49Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T12:58:21Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-12T12:59:56Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:00:05Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:00:30Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:00:41Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:01:55Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T13:05:29Z Bahman quit (Quit: Ave atque vale)
2016-01-12T13:08:10Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:08:16Z HannahThePanda: Hi all; I have a CLOS question. Is it possible to define a method so that it works on instances of a class and all instances of subclasses of that class?
2016-01-12T13:08:35Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T13:08:58Z jackdaniel: it works like that by default, doesn't it?
2016-01-12T13:09:26Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:10:29Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T13:11:24Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T13:11:37Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:11:58Z jackdaniel: unless you specialize the method on the subclass, the more general method will be invoked
2016-01-12T13:12:17Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T13:12:17Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T13:12:34Z HannahThePanda: jackdaniel: right, I messed up my test case with a type
2016-01-12T13:12:49Z HannahThePanda: *typo. Sorry!
2016-01-12T13:12:54Z jackdaniel: np :)
2016-01-12T13:13:03Z moore33: That was about to get interesting :)
2016-01-12T13:13:07Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:13:17Z tristero joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:13:37Z slyrus joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:13:57Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:14:53Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:14:57Z profess_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:15:49Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T13:15:49Z eazar001 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T13:15:49Z profess_ is now known as profess
2016-01-12T13:17:01Z papachan quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-12T13:17:28Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:17:43Z papachan quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-12T13:18:12Z papachan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:18:28Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:20:05Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-12T13:20:55Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T13:22:54Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:23:59Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:25:57Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-12T13:29:22Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T13:29:32Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:30:30Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T13:31:20Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:34:32Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:39:47Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:43:55Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T13:45:26Z Warlock[29A] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T13:45:45Z flip214: I can't be certain that a &rest list is freshly allocated, right? Before doing destructive operations I need to copy it, I guess.
2016-01-12T13:46:33Z jackdaniel: flip214: yes
2016-01-12T13:47:54Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:48:52Z flip214: is there some way to find out whether I need to copy?
2016-01-12T13:49:31Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:52:18Z scymtym_: flip214: in SBCL, you could SB-INTROSPECT:ALLOCATION-INFORMATION, but if you planning to do this as an optimization, that probably doesn't help
2016-01-12T13:53:16Z scymtym_: sorry, misread the question. that doesn't tell you whether the list is freshly allocated or not.
2016-01-12T13:53:22Z jackdaniel: flip214: why not always copy that list? do you predict very long lists?
2016-01-12T13:53:28Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:54:44Z flip214: jackdaniel: well, I can't say.... the question just shot through my mind.
2016-01-12T13:55:33Z jackdaniel: I think it's unspecified by a spec, so you can't rely on that, though it's probably allocated on each call
2016-01-12T13:56:01Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:56:30Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:57:03Z jackdaniel: "a rest parameter is permitted, but not required, to share structure with the last argument to apply."
2016-01-12T13:57:07Z jackdaniel: clhs 3.4.1.3
2016-01-12T13:57:07Z specbot: A specifier for a rest parameter: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_dac.htm
2016-01-12T13:57:35Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:58:19Z flip214: jackdaniel: I'm afraid that it'll break for (apply function '(1 2 3 4))
2016-01-12T13:58:34Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-12T13:58:42Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:58:54Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:59:01Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-12T13:59:25Z jackdaniel: I think that if you modify destructively function arguments then it's a must to copy them as  a good practice
2016-01-12T14:00:23Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:00:25Z jackdaniel: what do you mean by "it'll break" ? it's not required to share a structure. I'd say - it may break
2016-01-12T14:00:26Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:02:36Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T14:03:16Z flambard_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:03:55Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T14:05:20Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-12T14:06:38Z flambard quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-12T14:09:24Z flip214: I tried to say "It'll break *at some time*"
2016-01-12T14:09:31Z jackdaniel: right :)
2016-01-12T14:10:21Z flip214: jackdaniel: well, the function could get a backtrace, and if it's not being called by apply it should have a fresh copy, right? ;)
2016-01-12T14:10:25Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T14:12:09Z jackdaniel: yes, given the fact that function may call itself then rest list has to be distinct
2016-01-12T14:12:33Z jackdaniel: either way, I'd just copy this list and doesn't won't bother ;)
2016-01-12T14:13:57Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:14:42Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:17:43Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T14:18:17Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:19:01Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T14:23:24Z HannahThePanda quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-12T14:24:24Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:24:47Z NaNDude quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T14:27:48Z d00der joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:27:59Z dlowe: under some conditions, the rest list is stack-allocated
2016-01-12T14:28:30Z dlowe: all sorts of things a compiler can do. Just always copy.
2016-01-12T14:29:13Z dlowe: Honestly, I pretty much *never* destructively modify a list. We have lots of memory and cpu these days and it's just not worth the risk.
2016-01-12T14:29:51Z broSys joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:29:52Z jackdaniel building utilities tries to provide both versions: xxx and nxxx
2016-01-12T14:29:54Z dlowe: The exception is when I'm modifying individual conses for things like queues.
2016-01-12T14:29:56Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T14:30:14Z d00der: So I'm trying to load a system I've created as per the docs, I have a subdirectory in ~/common-lisp trying to load with asdf 3.1.5 (asdf:load-system :system) but it's not finding it..
2016-01-12T14:30:50Z d00der: The manual says that should be enough as far as I can tell. I can load it if I push the dir onto the central registry, but I'd rather not do that
2016-01-12T14:31:34Z flip214: dlowe: sort...
2016-01-12T14:31:35Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:32:07Z dlowe: flip214: sort with a copy.
2016-01-12T14:32:53Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:37:21Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:40:24Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:41:06Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:41:12Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T14:41:37Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:43:44Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:44:17Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-12T14:44:40Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-12T14:45:39Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T14:46:39Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:48:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T14:53:20Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:56:28Z d00der quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T14:56:59Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T14:57:21Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T14:59:38Z ramky quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-12T15:01:13Z d00der joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:01:41Z flambard__ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:01:52Z flambard__ is now known as flambard
2016-01-12T15:02:03Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:04:57Z flambard_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T15:05:09Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:05:36Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:05:36Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-12T15:05:36Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:10:22Z duggiefresh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T15:10:47Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:15:52Z duggiefresh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T15:16:15Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:18:47Z gabot quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T15:19:10Z eli quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-12T15:19:17Z d00der quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-12T15:20:44Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:21:43Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:26:01Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:26:35Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T15:27:02Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T15:27:06Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-12T15:27:49Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:28:39Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:28:44Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T15:29:29Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T15:41:13Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T15:41:28Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:42:46Z wgslayer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T15:43:06Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:44:39Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T15:50:49Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:53:45Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-12T15:53:54Z zch quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-12T15:54:36Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:01:25Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:02:52Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:04:44Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T16:04:45Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-12T16:05:46Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T16:07:21Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-12T16:09:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:12:26Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-12T16:13:41Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-12T16:22:59Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:23:35Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:25:00Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:25:19Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-12T16:25:34Z optikalmouse: has anyone taken a look at CL-21 yet? is it worthwhile to look into at all?
2016-01-12T16:26:24Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:26:40Z trinitr0n quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T16:27:25Z mordocai: optikalmouse: I looked at it. I think it is a nice idea that won't go anywhere, personally.
2016-01-12T16:27:32Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:28:01Z optikalmouse: mordocai: from my quick glance it looked like a lisp-in-a-box kinda starter package, does it add more than just packaging up some niceties together?
2016-01-12T16:28:05Z trinitr0n joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:28:39Z mordocai: optikalmouse: It's trying to become basically a new language
2016-01-12T16:28:52Z jackdaniel: it heavily uses readtable, so it may be incompatible with some of the CL
2016-01-12T16:29:15Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T16:29:25Z Xach: optikalmouse: my impression is that it's too different for people who like CL and not different enough for new people.
2016-01-12T16:29:45Z Xach: if you're going to depart from CL, it seems like new people like clojure a lot.
2016-01-12T16:29:46Z optikalmouse: a solution in search of a problem?
2016-01-12T16:30:41Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T16:31:10Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:31:27Z jackdaniel: optikalmouse: on the other hand it would be useful to look at the rutils library
2016-01-12T16:31:45Z jackdaniel: it looks very promising, but doesn't pretend to be a new language
2016-01-12T16:32:01Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T16:33:00Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:35:11Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-12T16:37:46Z NaNDude joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:38:56Z phadthai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T16:42:26Z _sjs quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-12T16:43:30Z phadthai joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:43:41Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-12T16:43:41Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:44:27Z splittist is almost tempted to break out iterate for this gnarly loop.
2016-01-12T16:44:34Z splittist: But perhaps I should just think harder.
2016-01-12T16:46:32Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T16:46:56Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:47:08Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:47:11Z contrapunctus: or use recursion *ducks*
2016-01-12T16:47:34Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-12T16:48:04Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T16:50:14Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:51:13Z contrapunctus: jackdaniel: serapeum ?
2016-01-12T16:51:17Z akkad: or thwim harder
2016-01-12T16:54:01Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-12T16:55:26Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T16:58:59Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T17:04:26Z ramus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T17:05:09Z Khisanth quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-12T17:05:26Z mvilleneuve__ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-12T17:05:30Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:06:24Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:06:25Z tcr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T17:09:45Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:09:46Z contrapunctus: Why didn't Strandh's CL-reference take off? Sounds like a worthwhile project...(I'd contribute if I had the required know-how.)
2016-01-12T17:10:06Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-12T17:10:12Z Xach: I don't think I've ever heard of it. Where can I read more?
2016-01-12T17:10:21Z contrapunctus: Xach: https://github.com/robert-strandh/CL-reference
2016-01-12T17:10:28Z jackdaniel: contrapunctus: beach is only one person with limited resources – it lacks volunteers I suppose
2016-01-12T17:10:48Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:10:58Z contrapunctus: jackdaniel: ah, that's what I meant - why didn't it get traction with the community.
2016-01-12T17:11:01Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T17:11:16Z splittist: contrapunctus: what community?
2016-01-12T17:11:22Z contrapunctus: splittist: :(
2016-01-12T17:11:30Z jackdaniel: because people tend to think, that they don't have required know-how
2016-01-12T17:11:33Z Xach: contrapunctus: I don't think many know about it.
2016-01-12T17:11:36Z jackdaniel: know-how is something you gather while contributing
2016-01-12T17:11:43Z jackdaniel: not something you have in-front ;)
2016-01-12T17:11:59Z contrapunctus: Xach: I see, thanks
2016-01-12T17:12:23Z contrapunctus: jackdaniel: I suppose that's one way to go about it.
2016-01-12T17:12:26Z jackdaniel: contrapunctus: you may talk with eudoxia regarding the spec tex sources, I believe he worked on them
2016-01-12T17:12:40Z jackdaniel: as a starting point that is
2016-01-12T17:12:41Z Xach: contrapunctus: I like to follow new things in the CL world, but I don't remember any announcement or publicity around the start of the project. maybe he is waiting for more progress to push for awareness?
2016-01-12T17:13:06Z contrapunctus: Xach: ah, yeah, I didn't think of that.
2016-01-12T17:14:01Z Yanez quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T17:17:26Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T17:26:06Z ramus joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:27:31Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:28:38Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-12T17:29:06Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T17:29:18Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-12T17:30:33Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T17:32:04Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:32:30Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:33:07Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:35:02Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T17:36:00Z moore33: Anyone using CommonDoc Codex? Yay / nay?
2016-01-12T17:37:34Z contrapunctus didn't know of it, now going through website.
2016-01-12T17:37:36Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:38:35Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-12T17:38:35Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T17:44:13Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:48:44Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:49:00Z Ober quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T17:49:03Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:49:33Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:49:40Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:49:47Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:50:16Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T17:54:46Z Ober joined #lisp
2016-01-12T17:55:20Z mordocai: moore33: I was planning on trying it out but hadn't yet
2016-01-12T17:56:44Z Xach: moore33: I want to try it
2016-01-12T17:59:35Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T18:00:27Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:04:17Z moore33: The document string markup seems fairly well done.
2016-01-12T18:04:23Z moore33: From looking at the docs.
2016-01-12T18:05:58Z mordocai: Yeah, well if I remember correctly it actually is modular so you can swap out the markup too
2016-01-12T18:07:15Z SHODAN quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-12T18:08:15Z SHODAN joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:08:50Z Ober quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T18:13:18Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-12T18:14:51Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:16:30Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:16:51Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:16:52Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T18:17:05Z myrkraverk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:17:41Z myrkraverk_ is now known as myrkraverk
2016-01-12T18:17:51Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:18:46Z jasom: mordocai: it uses pandocl, which currently only supports vertex and scriba
2016-01-12T18:21:30Z jasom: but you can define new formats just with one generic function
2016-01-12T18:22:20Z ggole quit
2016-01-12T18:22:30Z mordocai: jasom: Yeah I'm pretty excited to try it.
2016-01-12T18:22:35Z mordocai: Just haven't had a good use case yet
2016-01-12T18:25:02Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-12T18:25:40Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-12T18:25:47Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:27:20Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-12T18:30:43Z psy joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:30:55Z jsgrant quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T18:33:18Z nzambe: not knowledgeable but how is CoommonDoc differ from Cluffer beach is working on?
2016-01-12T18:33:27Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:33:57Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:34:09Z varjagg quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-12T18:34:29Z mordocai: nzambe: Different things entirely I think.
2016-01-12T18:34:40Z mordocai: nzambe: Cluffer is a text editor buffer, CommonDoc is for generating docs from a project
2016-01-12T18:34:56Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:40:24Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T18:40:38Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:43:35Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T18:45:43Z eli joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:47:44Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:51:29Z Ober joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:52:08Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T18:52:24Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:52:39Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-12T18:53:43Z sebboh: Question: http://paste.lisp.org/+6JDF See what I'm trying to do there?  In some languages, two functions that take different arguments are two different functions--the compiler knows which one you want based on what args you provide. However, this isn't working in CL...  Should I just rename one function? Or is there some other common strategy?
2016-01-12T18:54:24Z White_Flame: there's also (defun draw-rectangle (x1 y1 &optional x2 y2) ...)
2016-01-12T18:54:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T18:54:42Z White_Flame: renaming it is common
2016-01-12T18:54:56Z sebboh: and then I'd have to (if (listp...) ...) or something, if I did the &optional route, eh?
2016-01-12T18:55:03Z White_Flame: there's also multimethods, but they really prefer the count of arguments to be the same across variations
2016-01-12T18:55:21Z White_Flame: &optional can give you additional flags to tell you if the last 2 args were included or not
2016-01-12T18:55:24Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-12T18:55:40Z sebboh: white_flame, ahh, I see.
2016-01-12T18:56:16Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:56:26Z White_Flame: when you refer to other languages, typically you're referring to very statically typed, statically compiled languages
2016-01-12T18:56:48Z White_Flame: Lisp doesn't really work that way :)
2016-01-12T18:57:03Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-12T18:57:25Z sebboh: I'm not complaining, just exploring.  This is of course not the first time I've realized that lisp is not java. ;)
2016-01-12T18:57:39Z sebboh: Thank goodness!
2016-01-12T18:57:41Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T18:58:09Z PuercoPop: btw asdf needs man power if anyone is interesed (gmane is down here so I can't link the discussion)
2016-01-12T18:58:26Z White_Flame: (defun draw-rectangle (x1 y1 &optional x2 (y2 nil is-y2-provided)) ...)
2016-01-12T18:58:44Z White_Flame: (param-name default-value flag-set-if-parameter-was-given)
2016-01-12T18:59:27Z White_Flame: oh, another option is to have a macro, which looks at the number of parameters at compile time and outputs a call to one of the two functions
2016-01-12T18:59:34Z mordocai: PuercoPop: Anything a relative noob can help with? I'd be glad to spend some time on it
2016-01-12T18:59:49Z White_Flame: but that's not usually done, as it's not very runtime flexible with APPLY and such
2016-01-12T19:00:35Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:00:54Z sebboh: White_Flame: would you tell me more about runtime flexibility?  I wrote my first macro the other day. Worked great.
2016-01-12T19:01:09Z White_Flame: (apply #'macro-name param-list) won't work
2016-01-12T19:01:38Z White_Flame: but (eval `(macro-name ,@param-list)) will force it to work
2016-01-12T19:01:50Z sebboh: But (apply #'defun-name param-list) is a thing, eh?
2016-01-12T19:01:56Z White_Flame: yes
2016-01-12T19:02:08Z White_Flame: apply directly calls a function
2016-01-12T19:02:27Z White_Flame: whereas eval does the whole toplevel thing of macroexpansion
2016-01-12T19:02:47Z sebboh: gotcha.  That's fine.  Thank you for these lessons...  FYI I'm not going to rename a defun.. I'm going to delete one.  (I'm only calling these guys in a couple places!)
2016-01-12T19:02:55Z White_Flame: and macros are not functions (technical arguments following..)
2016-01-12T19:03:27Z sebboh: White_Flame: I'm doing this interactively so I don't think anything is compiled.
2016-01-12T19:03:42Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T19:03:52Z White_Flame: with multimethods, you could have (defmethod draw-rect ((r rect)) ..) and (defmethod draw-rect ((p pair-of-rects)) ...) if you have those types defined
2016-01-12T19:04:07Z White_Flame: s/pair-of-rects/pair-of-points/
2016-01-12T19:04:41Z White_Flame: sebboh: if you're using SBCL or some other CL implementations, everything goes down to machine code, even interactively
2016-01-12T19:05:00Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T19:05:00Z PuercoPop: mordocai: idk in detail, but it seems to me that having access to different CL implementation in different OSes could be of help
2016-01-12T19:05:26Z mordocai: PuercoPop: I probably won't be too much help then unfortunately. I only have access to linux.
2016-01-12T19:05:32Z White_Flame: sebboh: (defun my-len (x) (length x)) (disassemble #'my-len)
2016-01-12T19:06:20Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:07:08Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-12T19:07:26Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:07:53Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T19:10:57Z knobo joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:11:15Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T19:11:42Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:11:44Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:13:56Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T19:15:53Z sebboh: Holy crap, White_Flame, that's cool!
2016-01-12T19:16:14Z White_Flame: :)
2016-01-12T19:16:20Z sebboh: White_Flame: now, where's the (assemble ...) ? ;)
2016-01-12T19:16:33Z White_Flame: that's platform-specific, but you can do it
2016-01-12T19:16:41Z White_Flame: whereas disassemble is standard
2016-01-12T19:16:44Z attila_lendvai: sebboh: it's called cl:compile... ;)
2016-01-12T19:16:56Z Petit_Dejeuner: sebboh: If you're using emacs, C-c M-d
2016-01-12T19:17:18Z White_Flame: http://www.pvk.ca/Blog/2014/03/15/sbcl-the-ultimate-assembly-code-breadboard/
2016-01-12T19:17:21Z Petit_Dejeuner: If you want to disassemble with a hotkey.
2016-01-12T19:18:01Z sebboh: slow down folks.  Speaking of hot keys, is there some M-x slime-eval-string-in-repl?
2016-01-12T19:18:12Z Petit_Dejeuner: C-c C-c
2016-01-12T19:18:15Z sebboh: not last-expression... string.  It should prompt me.
2016-01-12T19:18:35Z White_Flame: that's kind of what the REPL is
2016-01-12T19:18:46Z Petit_Dejeuner: return :^)
2016-01-12T19:18:49Z sebboh: Sorry, I'm not in the repl, I'm in a .lisp file buffer.
2016-01-12T19:19:18Z Petit_Dejeuner: C-c C-c is what I use to run a form from a .lisp buffer
2016-01-12T19:19:29Z sebboh: Previously I used a keyboard macro to switch to the repl buffer, type the function call I wanted, hit enter, and switch back to my editor...
2016-01-12T19:19:42Z psy quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-12T19:19:48Z Petit_Dejeuner: C-z, enter, C-o ?
2016-01-12T19:20:04Z Xach: the repl is not a good place to write defuns, most of the time.
2016-01-12T19:20:09Z sebboh: C-z has been disabled here.  What does it do on your end?
2016-01-12T19:20:19Z Petit_Dejeuner: It jumps me to the repl.
2016-01-12T19:20:24Z Petit_Dejeuner: But only if I'm in a lisp buffer.
2016-01-12T19:20:29Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:20:31Z sebboh: Petit_Dejeuner: I see.
2016-01-12T19:21:28Z sebboh: I just want to call (wipe-frame-buffer) in my repl whenever I hit f5.  I previously had this on a keyboard macro but then I redefined it so now I'm thinking of something longer lasting...
2016-01-12T19:21:53Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:22:04Z White_Flame: M-Sh-, C-c C-o ?
2016-01-12T19:22:15Z White_Flame: (jump to top of buffer, clear output)
2016-01-12T19:22:20Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T19:23:16Z sebboh: ... what? I retract my question. This isn't important.  (Originally I was asking for the name of an existing interactive function--it must not exist.)
2016-01-12T19:23:36Z White_Flame: C-c C-o clears the REPL buffer below the cursor
2016-01-12T19:23:37Z sebboh: s/interactive function/command/
2016-01-12T19:24:01Z sebboh: And C-x f sets the fill column. :)
2016-01-12T19:24:23Z White_Flame: slime-repl-clear-buffer might be what you want
2016-01-12T19:24:27Z White_Flame: ump to repl
2016-01-12T19:24:28Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T19:24:40Z White_Flame: https://www.common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/REPL-commands.html#REPL-commands
2016-01-12T19:26:53Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:29:48Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:30:31Z sebboh: M-x slime-interactive-eval or C-c :
2016-01-12T19:30:38Z varjagg left #lisp
2016-01-12T19:31:06Z White_Flame: well, there you go
2016-01-12T19:31:30Z sebboh: :)
2016-01-12T19:31:36Z sebboh: Thanks for the docs link. ;)
2016-01-12T19:31:41Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-12T19:31:49Z White_Flame: 'tis but a google away :-P
2016-01-12T19:36:15Z vlatkoB quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T19:37:48Z BIGBOOMBA joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:39:20Z BIGBOOMBA: Quick question (22.1.2 of CLtL2): what is an "extended" token? How is it different from a token?
2016-01-12T19:41:47Z varjag is now known as Guest28871
2016-01-12T19:41:51Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:43:26Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T19:44:16Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:44:47Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-12T19:48:05Z ramky quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-12T19:51:34Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-12T19:52:22Z nightfly quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2016-01-12T19:53:30Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T19:55:38Z dwchandler: PuercoPop: wrt asdf, did you mean https://mailman.common-lisp.net/pipermail/asdf-devel/2016-January/005102.html ?
2016-01-12T19:55:55Z dwchandler: That's a bit different than "man power"
2016-01-12T19:58:42Z mordocai: dwchandler: The follow up from fare makes it sound less likely that there will be any lingering issues
2016-01-12T19:59:41Z dwchandler: We'll see, I guess
2016-01-12T20:00:22Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:00:52Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:01:20Z dim joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:01:31Z mordocai: It does sound like they need developers (besides a potential new maintainer).
2016-01-12T20:03:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T20:04:37Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:05:35Z PuercoPop: dwchandler: yes, I meant that thread.
2016-01-12T20:06:03Z White_Flame: BIGBOOMBA: I think an extended token is one that could turn into a symbol or number, as opposed to just punctuation
2016-01-12T20:07:00Z shka: The ideal solution would of course be for young blood to take over
2016-01-12T20:07:01Z shka: from the two of us, but I don't see that happening. Common Lisp is not
2016-01-12T20:07:03Z shka: very welcoming nor attractive to new blood.
2016-01-12T20:07:11Z shka: :(
2016-01-12T20:07:34Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T20:07:55Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:08:07Z dlowe: it was when I started :D
2016-01-12T20:08:18Z dlowe: and it seems a lot more welcoming now
2016-01-12T20:08:58Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-12T20:09:15Z akkad: yk
2016-01-12T20:11:51Z attila_lendvai: I always felt that approaching CL is an uphill battle -- although one that is worth fighting. from some attitudes you can meet online, to the default values of stuff like various slime settings... and it does indeed seem to be more welcoming these days than it was a decade ago.
2016-01-12T20:13:06Z attila_lendvai: which has a lot to do with people like fare and Xach developing crucial infrastructure
2016-01-12T20:13:08Z dlowe: I think one problem is that *every* online community kind of sucks, and it's rare to get face-to-face support with less popular things like CL.
2016-01-12T20:13:45Z White_Flame: also, as seen earlier the "discussion CL relative to other languages is off-topic!" is a real turn-off for people who find this place and don't know about #clnoobs, ##lisp, etc
2016-01-12T20:13:52Z failproofshark joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:14:28Z White_Flame: though the flipside is flooding this place with language religion
2016-01-12T20:14:32Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:15:39Z dlowe: Take it to #lispcult
2016-01-12T20:16:12Z PuercoPop: There is a little bump in the road at the start. Lucky for me I tried Clojure first so when I tried CL I had already wrestled with emacs
2016-01-12T20:16:13Z Petit_Dejeuner: But nobody's there. :(
2016-01-12T20:16:23Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-12T20:16:35Z PuercoPop: I can't imagine using sbcl with rlwrap being a good experience to a beginner
2016-01-12T20:16:37Z Yanez quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T20:16:43Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T20:17:22Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:17:41Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:18:31Z dlowe: you can always use it like perl/python/ruby/whathaveyou
2016-01-12T20:18:40Z dlowe: sbcl -load "mycoolprogram.lisp"
2016-01-12T20:18:53Z dlowe: you're missing out on a lot of good stuff, of course
2016-01-12T20:19:00Z wondermonkey joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:19:16Z dlowe: but there's no need to learn *all* the good stuff right away
2016-01-12T20:20:04Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:22:20Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-12T20:23:37Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-12T20:24:47Z dwchandler: I use sbcl + rlwrap, edit in vim. I know enough to know at least part of what I'm missing, but I'm not ready to go back to emacs at this point. But my point being, I agree with dlowe about not having to swallow the whole elephant at once. A bite at a time works, too.
2016-01-12T20:25:27Z dlowe: dwchandler: there used to be a slime interface for vim. I don't know what its state is now, though
2016-01-12T20:25:31Z PuercoPop: dwchandler: there are a at least a couple of lispers that happily use slimev
2016-01-12T20:26:09Z attila_lendvai: as I remember it took us around a week of active struggle to get going with emacs+slime+sbcl. and IIRC I was already playing with it on and off prior to that
2016-01-12T20:26:42Z dwchandler: I've been considering spacemacs
2016-01-12T20:28:27Z PuercoPop: I've been considering spacemacs as well as I liked vim modal editing a lot but don't feel reworking my configuration
2016-01-12T20:29:34Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:30:22Z dwchandler: the vim solutions for running SLIME all look like horrible hacks to me. Vim doesn't have what's needed to do something like run SLIME, so anything is bound to be terrible
2016-01-12T20:30:52Z dwchandler: if people are happy with that, then cool.
2016-01-12T20:31:59Z Petit_Dejeuner: vim isn't a sin, it's a pennance
2016-01-12T20:32:45Z akkad: vi is ok
2016-01-12T20:38:26Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-12T20:38:39Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T20:39:21Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:40:40Z jlarocco_: is there a good library for decoding bitfields?
2016-01-12T20:41:34Z jlarocco_: I have a 32-bit unsigned number, and know that bits 0-3 represent something, 4-8 something else, 9-21 something, etc.
2016-01-12T20:42:18Z Xach: jlarocco_: binary-types is the old-school one for that.
2016-01-12T20:42:26Z Xach: jlarocco_: in a pinch, you can use ldb for that sort of thing, though.
2016-01-12T20:42:46Z jlarocco_: awesome, thank you
2016-01-12T20:43:05Z Xach: e.g. (ldb (byte 3 0) number) => something, (ldb (byte 4 4) number) => something-else, etc
2016-01-12T20:43:56Z White_Flame: (byte <count of bits> <start position>)
2016-01-12T20:43:56Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:44:40Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T20:45:06Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:45:39Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:46:04Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-12T20:46:53Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T20:47:16Z m_zr0_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-12T20:47:34Z wondermonkey quit (Quit: wondermonkey)
2016-01-12T20:48:21Z jlarocco_: (binary-types:define-bitfield ...) is exactly what I was hoping for
2016-01-12T20:49:44Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-12T20:51:55Z Denommus quit (Quit: rebooting)
2016-01-12T20:52:09Z pjb: sebboh: one thing you can do in CL that you cannot do in other languages, is to define a compiler macro, that will check the calls, and be able to generate specialy optimized code in each case. So you don't have to incur the overhead of &optional and the associated run-time parsing for "static" calls.
2016-01-12T20:56:19Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T20:58:22Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-12T20:58:50Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:58:56Z freehck` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T20:59:34Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-12T20:59:38Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:01:37Z pjb: sebboh: http://paste.lisp.org/display/305045
2016-01-12T21:01:53Z pjb: sebboh: notice the functions called in the disassembly.
2016-01-12T21:02:50Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T21:04:16Z Guest28871 quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-12T21:04:18Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:04:39Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:05:44Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-12T21:07:15Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:08:33Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-12T21:09:43Z patrickwonders joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:10:46Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T21:11:40Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T21:12:03Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:13:11Z patrickwonders: Anyone else having trouble with Quicklisp getting partial content downloading right now?
2016-01-12T21:13:35Z Xach: patrickwonders: interesting. what are the symptoms?
2016-01-12T21:14:26Z patrickwonders: QL-HTTP::END-OF-DATA error thrown.
2016-01-12T21:14:49Z Xach: patrickwonders: for all downloads or for a particular one?
2016-01-12T21:14:52Z patrickwonders: When I wget, it takes several retries to get whole thing.
2016-01-12T21:15:16Z Xach: patrickwonders: what file?
2016-01-12T21:15:20Z Xach: or URL?
2016-01-12T21:15:20Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:15:34Z Xach: What is the failure mode of wget?
2016-01-12T21:15:38Z patrickwonders: Tried to get fare-csv and failed so tried update-all-dists and failed on alexandria.
2016-01-12T21:16:31Z patrickwonders: Hmm. Works for me at work... Must be my home machine or network.
2016-01-12T21:16:41Z Xach: hmm, yeah, works for me locally too
2016-01-12T21:17:08Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:17:10Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-12T21:17:27Z patrickwonders: Alright... Thanks...
2016-01-12T21:18:28Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T21:18:46Z patrickwonders quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
2016-01-12T21:19:37Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:20:04Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:22:34Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T21:28:38Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-12T21:29:26Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:32:02Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: brb, fixing uninitialized values bug.)
2016-01-12T21:35:15Z m_zr0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T21:35:21Z badkins_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:35:47Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-12T21:35:51Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:37:05Z Zotan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T21:37:42Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-12T21:39:44Z anti-freeze quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T21:40:12Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-12T21:42:31Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:43:50Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T21:44:31Z newcup quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T21:44:51Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:46:41Z Zotan joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:51:14Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T21:51:44Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:53:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:56:15Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:56:37Z newcup joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:58:19Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-12T21:59:06Z Lord_of_Life quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T22:03:05Z papachan quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-12T22:07:49Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T22:08:28Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-12T22:09:02Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:14:02Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T22:15:12Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-12T22:16:32Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:17:36Z spupuser joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:18:39Z spupuser: sup Quadrescence
2016-01-12T22:18:41Z spupuser: its SailorR
2016-01-12T22:19:06Z spupuser: reading SICP and lead me here
2016-01-12T22:20:20Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:20:42Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T22:21:43Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: one more resync needed)
2016-01-12T22:22:19Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:24:59Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:25:47Z badkins_ is now known as badkins
2016-01-12T22:26:31Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:28:47Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-12T22:29:55Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T22:31:17Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:33:10Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:33:23Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T22:33:38Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:33:42Z EvW quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T22:35:49Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T22:36:08Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:36:12Z BIGBOOMBA quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-12T22:36:48Z Mitzelflick: lisp would seem an idea web serving language, as html is just nested lists of strings, but has anyone like built a cluster app in lisp that can replace clsuters fo appservers and use abstraction to make it all simple?
2016-01-12T22:36:57Z Mitzelflick: like mass virtual hosts based on lists of info
2016-01-12T22:38:22Z stremOfConscious joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:40:08Z s00pcan quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T22:40:25Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:40:49Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T22:41:06Z spupuser: how do you write a general recursive function in lisp as an iterative process in lisp?
2016-01-12T22:41:35Z spupuser: like say the function was (define f <some recursive thingey>  )
2016-01-12T22:42:18Z Bike: SICP does compiler stuff, doesn't it? You rewrite as jumps and stack operations.
2016-01-12T22:42:29Z White_Flame: isn't DEFINE scheme?  there's different tools in Common Lisp
2016-01-12T22:42:59Z spupuser: Bike, idk im only on page 58
2016-01-12T22:43:17Z moore33: SICP also talks about turning recursion into iteration at a higher level than pseudo-machine instructions.
2016-01-12T22:43:20Z Bike: keep reading, then :)
2016-01-12T22:43:24Z White_Flame: but in general, the body of the recursive function becomes the body of the loop.  Make loop tests as fit
2016-01-12T22:43:38Z moore33: ... early in the book :)
2016-01-12T22:43:43Z White_Flame: however, recursive functions can be more flexible than basic looping operations tend to support
2016-01-12T22:43:50Z Bike: moore33: general recursion or just tail?
2016-01-12T22:44:20Z moore33: Bike: general recursion -> tail recursion
2016-01-12T22:44:32Z moore33: That is the transformation from one to the other.
2016-01-12T22:44:39Z stremOfConscious left #lisp
2016-01-12T22:44:48Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-12T22:44:48Z moore33: Bear in mind it's been almost 30 years since I've read the book :)
2016-01-12T22:45:18Z Bike: well, so you introduce a stack for the non-tail-calls, and then do tail calls which we all know are just jumps. so there you go
2016-01-12T22:45:29Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:45:35Z moore33: Pretty much.
2016-01-12T22:46:59Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:48:35Z spupuser: if only there were a general recursive language
2016-01-12T22:49:04Z Bike: there are many
2016-01-12T22:49:07Z White_Flame: meaning what?
2016-01-12T22:49:30Z spupuser: like ...any mathematically valid recursive function
2016-01-12T22:49:35Z spupuser: and you can write it as -is
2016-01-12T22:49:39Z spupuser: and itll execute
2016-01-12T22:49:56Z spupuser: as long as its well-defined
2016-01-12T22:50:10Z Bike: writing a lambda calculus interpreter is a piece of cake. and that's just notation concerns, really.
2016-01-12T22:50:22Z White_Flame: I'd need to see an example of what you think is not possible
2016-01-12T22:51:06Z lisse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T22:51:21Z spupuser: like solving functional equations
2016-01-12T22:51:25Z spupuser: defined recursively such as
2016-01-12T22:51:45Z spupuser: f ( x y= f(x) +f(y)
2016-01-12T22:51:48Z spupuser: f(xy)
2016-01-12T22:51:53Z spupuser: given some initial conditions
2016-01-12T22:52:02Z Bike: functional equations are different from recursion.
2016-01-12T22:52:12Z spupuser: how so
2016-01-12T22:52:17Z White_Flame: man nmap
2016-01-12T22:53:11Z Bike: they don't usually have one solution, for a start.
2016-01-12T22:53:15Z Bike: read through http://www.cofault.com/2010/01/hunt-for-addictive-monster.html, it's a trip
2016-01-12T22:53:47Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:54:26Z White_Flame: and computer algebra systems deal with actual equations (and are availabile in Lisp as well)
2016-01-12T22:54:26Z Bike: they're more like constraints than they are definitions.
2016-01-12T22:54:59Z White_Flame: yeah, f(x*y) = f(x) + f(y) doesn't seem like a statement you wish to execute
2016-01-12T22:55:13Z White_Flame: but a declaration within some greater context to mathematically solve
2016-01-12T22:55:34Z spupuser: a nonlinear addictive function ....lol
2016-01-12T22:55:36Z White_Flame: ie, it informs a solver, it does not solve anything on its own
2016-01-12T22:55:53Z White_Flame: what is xy supposed to mean in f(xy) = f(x) + f(y) then?
2016-01-12T22:56:14Z perpetuum joined #lisp
2016-01-12T22:56:21Z Bike: spupuser was referring to the article i linked, which is about solutions to f(x+y) = f(x) + f(y) that aren't in the form f(x) = k*x.
2016-01-12T22:56:26Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T22:56:48Z White_Flame: yeah, I assumed it was related, but he had f(xy) instead
2016-01-12T22:56:52Z spupuser: Bike, did he prove it even exists?
2016-01-12T22:57:00Z spupuser: or that it satisfies every bad property of functions
2016-01-12T22:57:07Z Bike: sure. read the article.
2016-01-12T22:57:34Z spupuser: o I see the continue ...nice
2016-01-12T22:57:40Z Bike: White_Flame: they're both functional equations, and i have links for one but not the other, you see
2016-01-12T22:57:46Z scymtym quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T22:58:32Z Bike: but even f(xy) = f(x) + f(y) is solved by logarithm in any base. probably a few other things too.
2016-01-12T22:58:42Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-12T22:59:48Z Bike: you could give a few extra conditions, like f(e) = 1, that might make it unique, but then you're using a solver like you said.
2016-01-12T23:00:20Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-12T23:01:32Z m0li quit (Quit: i'm back.)
2016-01-12T23:02:20Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:02:37Z White_Flame: right, the question is if a "general recursion" programming language would be related to something like that
2016-01-12T23:04:54Z srcerer joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:08:06Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T23:10:00Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T23:12:27Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-12T23:14:46Z Warlock[29A] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T23:14:59Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T23:15:30Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T23:20:36Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:20:53Z papachan_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T23:22:35Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:22:54Z papachan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:24:57Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:26:13Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:26:21Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-12T23:27:59Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-12T23:28:36Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:28:41Z heddwch is now known as WaterFly
2016-01-12T23:30:40Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:33:41Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:35:51Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:35:59Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:37:32Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-12T23:38:32Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-12T23:39:02Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:39:48Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-12T23:44:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:45:08Z WaterFly is now known as heddwch
2016-01-12T23:45:19Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:45:35Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:45:59Z sweater is now known as Guest45791
2016-01-12T23:47:36Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-12T23:47:37Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-12T23:47:40Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-12T23:50:35Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-12T23:50:59Z papachan_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-12T23:51:58Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-12T23:53:01Z lnostdal_ quit (Quit: Invest and trade anonymously: https://goo.gl/Hw81yy)
2016-01-12T23:55:14Z trinque left #lisp
2016-01-12T23:55:50Z Mitzelflick: gosh so much software is just painful
2016-01-12T23:55:53Z Mitzelflick: paaainful bs
2016-01-12T23:58:04Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:00:08Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:04:37Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:05:32Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:07:08Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T00:07:39Z Lord_of_Life quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-13T00:08:48Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:11:35Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T00:19:27Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T00:20:09Z Mitzelflick quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-13T00:23:06Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:27:33Z msmith joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:27:47Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T00:28:04Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-13T00:28:27Z msmith: hi all, anyone know how to recursively load all lisp files with asdf?
2016-01-13T00:29:07Z jasom: msmith: you mean asdf:load-system
2016-01-13T00:29:35Z Posterdati: is define-test test-log-form-and-value wrong at the sixth assert-equal? (assert-equal 3 (length *log-with-value*))
2016-01-13T00:29:41Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-13T00:30:33Z msmith: jasom: I mean in a system def doing something like :components  (:tree  "mydir/**/*.lisp"
2016-01-13T00:32:49Z Zhivago quit (Changing host)
2016-01-13T00:32:49Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:33:47Z jasom: msmith: I don't think you can do that, but if you use package-inferred-system, it's not too hard to get something close
2016-01-13T00:34:37Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:34:41Z jasom: msmith: alternatively you might be able to do some magic with a #. reader macro
2016-01-13T00:35:25Z msmith: jasom: ok, I'll look into the package-inferred-system approach
2016-01-13T00:38:05Z pillton: msmith: Is your system really able to be loaded in an arbitrary order?
2016-01-13T00:39:46Z jasom: FWIW, asdf *does* set the *default-pathname-defaults* to the root of the system when loading the .asd file, so calculating everything in a #. isn't as hard as it might sound
2016-01-13T00:39:47Z msmith: pillton: I have a core system and a path where modules are  kept.  the core system must be loaded first, but the modules need not be.  At least at this time
2016-01-13T00:39:54Z jasom: on the other hand don't do that :P
2016-01-13T00:42:56Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T00:45:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T00:46:33Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T00:49:54Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:52:20Z arutemu joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:53:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T00:54:01Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:58:38Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T00:59:09Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:59:09Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-13T00:59:09Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-13T00:59:15Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T00:59:17Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:02:46Z arutemu left #lisp
2016-01-13T01:04:53Z Robdgreat quit (Changing host)
2016-01-13T01:04:53Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:05:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T01:05:54Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-13T01:07:14Z Baggers left #lisp
2016-01-13T01:07:37Z habs joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:09:53Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:09:55Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:12:40Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-13T01:16:17Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:16:22Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T01:18:08Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-13T01:18:50Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:18:50Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-13T01:18:50Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:19:21Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T01:23:48Z MoALTz_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-13T01:24:55Z papachan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:26:04Z papachan_ is now known as papachan
2016-01-13T01:26:26Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T01:27:06Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T01:33:35Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T01:33:37Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:33:55Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T01:35:34Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:35:34Z warweasle quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T01:40:19Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:40:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:40:47Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:45:36Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-13T01:48:20Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:49:42Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:51:18Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T01:55:22Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:55:59Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-13T01:56:06Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T02:02:06Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:02:59Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T02:03:47Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:04:16Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:04:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:05:53Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:11:01Z yeticry quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T02:11:41Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.)
2016-01-13T02:11:49Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:12:10Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:12:32Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:14:26Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:14:53Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T02:16:43Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:18:10Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T02:18:55Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T02:27:31Z dew3y joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:33:40Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2016-01-13T02:37:12Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T02:39:25Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:42:52Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:43:07Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T02:49:32Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:51:45Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:52:18Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T02:52:55Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T02:55:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T02:59:31Z gabriel_laddel quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T03:00:49Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T03:01:23Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T03:02:49Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T03:07:20Z thodg joined #lisp
2016-01-13T03:07:33Z thodg quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T03:08:25Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T03:12:53Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T03:13:26Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-13T03:14:14Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-13T03:24:48Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T03:26:28Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-13T03:30:24Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T03:30:58Z psy_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T03:35:56Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-13T03:42:00Z jleija quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T03:45:45Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T03:46:54Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T04:00:26Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T04:11:44Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:11:49Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-13T04:11:59Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:12:19Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-13T04:12:48Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:13:40Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T04:19:27Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:20:01Z kp666 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-13T04:20:30Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:20:31Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:20:31Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:20:31Z ozzloy quit (Changing host)
2016-01-13T04:20:31Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:24:06Z d00der joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:26:47Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-13T04:27:08Z moei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T04:27:42Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:28:04Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:28:05Z solrize joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:28:13Z solrize: is there a simple way in sbcl to make a big unboxed array of bytes?
2016-01-13T04:28:13Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T04:28:56Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:29:00Z beach: (make-array ... :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) or something like that.
2016-01-13T04:29:22Z solrize: aha  thanks
2016-01-13T04:30:25Z beach: Anytime.
2016-01-13T04:30:26Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-13T04:32:16Z brandonz joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:32:49Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:40:05Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T04:40:17Z doesthiswork joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:43:55Z doesthiswork: does anyone know what a "displacing macro" would be?
2016-01-13T04:44:38Z beach: Where did you see that?
2016-01-13T04:44:40Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:44:55Z Zhivago: A macro to produce a displaced array?
2016-01-13T04:45:40Z doesthiswork: one of the xj13 writeups had a note from mr. moon that they were removed from the language
2016-01-13T04:46:17Z Bike: Could you link it?
2016-01-13T04:46:17Z doesthiswork: and there are various hints from google that it means something different than the sum of the words
2016-01-13T04:46:30Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:46:43Z Zhivago: https://hanshuebner.github.io/lmman/macros.xml#displacing-macro-section ?
2016-01-13T04:47:33Z Bike: ...well, i'm glad we lost that.
2016-01-13T04:47:40Z d00der quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-13T04:47:53Z doesthiswork: http://clhs.lisp.se/Issues/iss301_w.htm
2016-01-13T04:48:21Z pillton: Weird.
2016-01-13T04:48:28Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-13T04:48:29Z Bike: yeah, matches zhivago's link. Bletcherous indeed.
2016-01-13T04:48:36Z pillton: Yet another deviation from the evaluation model.
2016-01-13T04:48:49Z doesthiswork: oh youch
2016-01-13T04:48:50Z Zhivago: Lisp is a collection of expedient hacks, after all. :)
2016-01-13T04:49:20Z pillton: doesthiswork: Thanks for pointing that out.
2016-01-13T04:49:52Z doesthiswork: I was without internet for a few days so I read the hyperspec for fun
2016-01-13T04:50:33Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:50:46Z dorkrawk joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:51:15Z pillton: Oh wait. "This is consistent with the checking-out of displacing macros from Common Lisp."
2016-01-13T04:51:22Z pillton: chucking*
2016-01-13T04:52:07Z dorkrawk: this might be a weird request, but I'm looking for some feedback on a Lisp related joke in a comic I'm writing...
2016-01-13T04:52:11Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-13T04:52:32Z doesthiswork: leths hear it
2016-01-13T04:52:34Z brucem: +-
2016-01-13T04:53:06Z pillton gets out the drum and cymbol.
2016-01-13T04:53:27Z dorkrawk: for anybody familiar with the show Seinfeld, does this joke work: (Jerry and Kramer sitting at a computer) Kramer: "You know Jerry, this would be a lot easier if you were using Lisp..." Jerry: (clenching his fist) "Von Neumann!"
2016-01-13T04:53:46Z doesthiswork: ?
2016-01-13T04:54:31Z doesthiswork: are you makeing a reference to the Von Neumann bottleneck?
2016-01-13T04:54:36Z dorkrawk: Jerry had a bit where he used to yell "Newman!" (referring to Kramer's friend) all the time
2016-01-13T04:55:00Z solrize: whoosh
2016-01-13T04:55:04Z White_Flame: I don't think there's enough of a Lisp -> Neumann connection to make it a Lisp joke
2016-01-13T04:55:14Z doesthiswork: ah
2016-01-13T04:55:19Z solrize: could he yell "mccarthy"?
2016-01-13T04:55:19Z dorkrawk: yea... that's what I was worried about
2016-01-13T04:55:44Z solrize: or "newlisp" ?
2016-01-13T04:56:20Z pillton: or "you sound like my father".
2016-01-13T04:56:24Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T04:56:47Z doesthiswork: well you don't really need lisp for this joke
2016-01-13T04:57:16Z Petit_Dejeuner: dorkrawk: Might work better if Kramer tells Jerry to use some lang that is good at paralellism.
2016-01-13T04:57:47Z dorkrawk: hmm... yea... something more directly about the architecture might work better
2016-01-13T04:58:16Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-13T04:58:32Z White_Flame: also, isn't Neumann pronounced "Noy - muhn", and not "New muhn" as the seinfeld character?
2016-01-13T04:58:56Z Petit_Dejeuner: close enough
2016-01-13T04:59:06Z Petit_Dejeuner: maybe drop the 'von'
2016-01-13T04:59:19Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-13T04:59:20Z dorkrawk: ha, you might be right. I've been pronouncing it "new-man" in my head for a long time and it's been a while since I've been in a CS class
2016-01-13T04:59:44Z Petit_Dejeuner: time to say it the cooler way
2016-01-13T04:59:50Z solrize: noy-monn
2016-01-13T05:00:43Z solrize: "you know jerry this would run faster if you used self-modifying code"
2016-01-13T05:05:09Z dorkrawk: yea, that or a Von Neumann bottleneck reference would be good... though perhaps this joke might be a bit too obscure to really land, haha
2016-01-13T05:05:26Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T05:06:02Z dorkrawk: thanks for your help! I'll share the comic if I get to a script I like
2016-01-13T05:06:22Z doesthiswork: that one works well
2016-01-13T05:07:09Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T05:09:24Z resttime: Whoa, lispworks reworked their website.
2016-01-13T05:09:33Z resttime: THey seem to support mobile now too.
2016-01-13T05:10:26Z resttime: I wonder how it compares to mocl.
2016-01-13T05:12:59Z perpetuum quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-13T05:19:45Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-13T05:20:45Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T05:22:09Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-13T05:24:41Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T05:24:59Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-13T05:25:20Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T05:27:57Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2016-01-13T05:29:20Z dto joined #lisp
2016-01-13T05:31:16Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T05:31:52Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-13T05:33:28Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-13T05:41:20Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-13T05:42:08Z akkad: for relatively simple regexp is cl-ppcre:split the right way to go for speed?
2016-01-13T05:43:58Z dorkrawk left #lisp
2016-01-13T05:45:26Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T05:45:46Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-13T05:53:14Z warweasle quit (Quit: It's late. I'm going to bed.)
2016-01-13T05:57:48Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:03:54Z dto quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T06:14:06Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:16:08Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:24:24Z beach: tcr: Tobias?
2016-01-13T06:24:43Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:26:28Z jasom: akkad: for pretty much anything that isn't fixed-position splitting, cl-ppcre will likely be at least competitive on speed.  It's pretty darn fast
2016-01-13T06:27:22Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:28:15Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:30:54Z jasom: resttime: IIRC lispworks mobile versus mocl: the upside is that it actually works; downside is that it doesn't support iOS
2016-01-13T06:31:38Z jasom: oh, they have an iOS one too... *investigates further*
2016-01-13T06:32:19Z jasom: ah, "iOS runtimes cannot use cl:compile"
2016-01-13T06:32:34Z jasom: makes sense since iOS enforces W^X
2016-01-13T06:33:42Z flip214: I had a (handler-case sb-int:stream-decoding-error) that did (n
2016-01-13T06:34:03Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:34:20Z flip214: (invoke-restart 'sb-int:force-end-of-file). but that does'nt work with sbcl 1.3.1 any more, because the restart is gone.
2016-01-13T06:35:19Z flip214: what's the name of the restart now?
2016-01-13T06:37:50Z flip214: ah, seems to be in sb-kernel.
2016-01-13T06:38:13Z jasom: hmm, the mobile support could possibly get me to spring for this, *if* it were a fixed price rather than an annual license
2016-01-13T06:38:17Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T06:38:55Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T06:39:33Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:39:43Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T06:41:33Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:42:08Z resttime quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T06:42:44Z akkad: mocl seems to be very slow in new updates and fixes
2016-01-13T06:43:44Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:44:44Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:46:14Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:46:59Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T06:49:11Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T06:50:27Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:50:51Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-13T06:51:46Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T06:58:58Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:00:49Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:02:26Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:08:36Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-13T07:10:24Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T07:11:44Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-13T07:13:40Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T07:16:50Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-13T07:17:42Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T07:17:51Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-13T07:19:06Z anti-freeze quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-13T07:19:21Z doesthiswork quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T07:20:14Z doesthiswork joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:22:28Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T07:29:10Z Guest45791 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T07:30:03Z flip214: hmmm, with sbcl 1.3.1 and current ql swank I get "(:TYPE :TRANSLATOR) is not a defined info type." in (SB-C::META-INFO :TYPE :TRANSLATOR T)
2016-01-13T07:30:19Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:30:57Z doesthiswork1 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:30:58Z doesthiswork quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T07:31:25Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:31:33Z blt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-13T07:33:16Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-13T07:33:17Z doesthiswork1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T07:33:20Z doesthiswork joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:33:35Z doesthiswork quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T07:39:38Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:42:12Z bluhbluh joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:44:11Z bluhbluh quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T07:48:12Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T07:49:07Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:49:26Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:50:13Z x86_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:50:26Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T07:50:44Z x86_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T07:51:18Z les quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T07:51:52Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:54:35Z zaquest joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:54:47Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-13T07:58:38Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-13T08:05:14Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T08:06:08Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-13T08:06:40Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:07:09Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:15:03Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T08:15:16Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:16:02Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T08:18:01Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:20:57Z anti-freeze quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T08:21:26Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:29:02Z Warlock_29A quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T08:29:07Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:31:12Z nzambe quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-13T08:32:19Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:33:17Z nzambe quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T08:34:35Z oGMo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-13T08:35:25Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-13T08:37:03Z scymtym_: flip214: stassats worked on that, at least improving the error report on the SBCL side. not sure whether the swank side is fixed as well. maybe ask in #sbcl.
2016-01-13T08:37:19Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T08:38:46Z oGMo joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:38:54Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T08:40:20Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T08:40:48Z freehck` joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:40:55Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-13T08:43:23Z flip214: scymtym_: thanks
2016-01-13T08:46:13Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:48:19Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:50:10Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:52:12Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-13T08:53:16Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:07:17Z przl quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-13T09:07:35Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:09:07Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:09:31Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:10:37Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:19:40Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T09:19:59Z solrize: is there a simple way to set the optimization flags in sbcl without putting with-compilation-unit in another file?  and is :optimize 'speed  supposed to give the fastest (i.e. unsafe) settings?
2016-01-13T09:20:52Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:22:06Z |3b|: SPEED shouldn't make things that much less safe, SAFETY controls that (and you usually don't need to turn safety off in sbcl to get good speed)
2016-01-13T09:22:38Z flip214: solrize: (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (safety 3)))  in .sbclrc?
2016-01-13T09:23:17Z solrize: thanks i'll try that but i think i want to set to 0, it's for a benchmark
2016-01-13T09:23:30Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-13T09:24:00Z solrize: i was hoping to put something into the lisp file instead of .sbclrc but will try both ways.  i didn't know about declaim
2016-01-13T09:24:18Z solrize: actually i better quit for the night and mess with it more tomorrow... thanks / gnite
2016-01-13T09:24:23Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:26:14Z z0d: solrize: are you sure, you need them?
2016-01-13T09:26:45Z solrize: well right now my lisp code is running about 20x slower than c++
2016-01-13T09:27:23Z z0d: I don't think that playing with optimization settings will buy you much
2016-01-13T09:27:38Z otwieracz: I think your code is the problem.
2016-01-13T09:27:41Z solrize: you might be right, i haven't done this type of thing very much
2016-01-13T09:28:03Z z0d: solrize: first, check your code and pinpoint what is slow
2016-01-13T09:28:18Z otwieracz: Take a look at slime-profiler
2016-01-13T09:28:24Z solrize: but i think safety 0 also tells the compiler to believe the type declarations, this should be a lot better with unboxed fixnums and chars
2016-01-13T09:28:24Z otwieracz: It will generate runtime statistics.
2016-01-13T09:28:28Z solrize: will look at profiler
2016-01-13T09:28:42Z z0d: solrize: don't microoptimize
2016-01-13T09:29:08Z solrize: well sbcl is about 5x faster than python with my current code
2016-01-13T09:29:33Z flip214: solrize: paste?
2016-01-13T09:29:36Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T09:29:56Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T09:30:27Z solrize: http://lpaste.net/1539861108372799488
2016-01-13T09:31:09Z ralt: solrize: if you want it for a system, you can use asdf's around-compile
2016-01-13T09:31:33Z solrize: not sure what that is.  it's just a throwaway benchmark, comparing different compilers/languages
2016-01-13T09:31:43Z flip214: solrize: (random) in sbcl is quite a different thing than in python, and even more to C.
2016-01-13T09:31:50Z ralt: e.g. https://github.com/fare/asdf/blob/master/test/test-around-compile.script#L19-L21
2016-01-13T09:31:57Z solrize: ah thanks
2016-01-13T09:32:13Z flip214: in C I believe you get some last*prime mod prime, while in sbcl it's some 2^10000 generator IIRC
2016-01-13T09:32:19Z solrize: random seems to call mersenne twister prng which is reasonable.  i'm mostly concerned with the timing of the second loop though
2016-01-13T09:32:22Z solrize: t2-t1
2016-01-13T09:32:46Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T09:32:57Z solrize: c++ has several rng's to choose from and i tried a couple
2016-01-13T09:33:08Z flip214: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#Random-Number-Generation
2016-01-13T09:33:17Z z0d: and note that the Mersenne twister is not really fast. you can find better algorithms
2016-01-13T09:33:18Z flip214: This particular sbcl version uses the popular MT19937 prng algorithm, and its internal state only effectively contains about 19937 bits of information. http://www.math.sci.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/~m-mat/MT/emt.html
2016-01-13T09:33:35Z solrize: yeah i'm not really worried about the rng speed.... i mostly want to optimize the counting loop at line 16
2016-01-13T09:34:01Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:34:37Z splittist: solrize: you can promise the compiler that i, the contents of the arrays, and the result of the calculation are fixnums.
2016-01-13T09:35:27Z solrize: hmm i think i did that with the arrays with :element-type ?
2016-01-13T09:36:28Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:36:32Z solrize: how do i do it with i which is bound by the loop macro?
2016-01-13T09:36:48Z solrize: loop for (the fixnum i)   ?
2016-01-13T09:36:56Z |3b|: loop for i fixnum
2016-01-13T09:37:33Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:38:03Z |3b|: or for general types, loop for i of-type some-type
2016-01-13T09:38:18Z |3b|: but you probably don't need that
2016-01-13T09:38:20Z solrize: oh cool thanks
2016-01-13T09:38:21Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:38:41Z solrize: anyway i'll mess with this more tomorrow, i'm really sleepy now it's almost 2am here
2016-01-13T09:38:44Z solrize: gnite!
2016-01-13T09:38:46Z solrize left #lisp
2016-01-13T09:41:31Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:42:38Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-13T09:43:05Z jumblerg quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2016-01-13T09:55:44Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-13T09:58:58Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T10:10:40Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T10:12:26Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T10:13:41Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:13:52Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:16:18Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T10:21:09Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:25:55Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T10:28:35Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T10:28:56Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T10:29:30Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:30:02Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:30:24Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T10:30:56Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:34:39Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T10:35:10Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:36:28Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-13T10:37:06Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T10:39:27Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-13T10:41:01Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:42:00Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:42:00Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-13T10:42:00Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:42:47Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T10:44:02Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:45:13Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:53:06Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:55:09Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T10:55:46Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:56:50Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-13T10:57:46Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:58:03Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-13T10:59:49Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:04:06Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:05:00Z kp666 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T11:06:43Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:08:47Z justinmcp quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2016-01-13T11:09:54Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:10:01Z salva quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T11:13:47Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:13:59Z salva joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:15:00Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T11:18:00Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:19:05Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:20:15Z EvW quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T11:21:57Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:23:05Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-13T11:24:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:25:03Z keix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T11:29:26Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T11:29:46Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T11:30:53Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T11:31:03Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:31:42Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:32:55Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T11:34:16Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T11:35:26Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T11:35:34Z adhoc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:37:03Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:42:03Z seg joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:44:27Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:45:37Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:45:55Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:49:55Z splittist decides using short-circuiting logical macros is just confusing himself
2016-01-13T11:51:00Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T11:51:07Z alex`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T11:52:14Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T11:54:50Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:55:14Z sweater is now known as Guest58488
2016-01-13T11:56:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T11:57:19Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:57:23Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-13T11:59:19Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:06:51Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:07:50Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:08:00Z flavi0 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:08:02Z nydel: if i do (and (foo-p) (bar-p)) and foo-p evaluates down to nil, is bar-p evaluated?
2016-01-13T12:08:14Z djh: no
2016-01-13T12:08:21Z nydel: that's what i thought, thanks
2016-01-13T12:09:04Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-13T12:11:00Z Bor0 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:11:48Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:12:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:12:27Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-13T12:12:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:15:55Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:16:40Z wailord quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:17:04Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:21:18Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:21:25Z mbuf quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T12:22:53Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:30:29Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T12:32:07Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:32:23Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:33:48Z Guest58488 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:34:46Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:35:34Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:38:23Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:39:36Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-13T12:41:21Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T12:42:11Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:44:22Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:46:25Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:48:26Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T12:49:13Z Warlock_29A quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T12:49:35Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:49:36Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:50:37Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:50:59Z asc232 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:53:21Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:56:03Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-13T12:56:44Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:00:13Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T13:03:38Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:03:39Z tcr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T13:03:44Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:05:01Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:08:34Z Bor0 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T13:08:38Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:09:35Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T13:14:03Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-13T13:16:45Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T13:29:03Z jyuan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:32:55Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:33:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:35:54Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:37:55Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T13:38:23Z kp666 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T13:39:40Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T13:43:10Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:43:55Z Guest58488 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:44:51Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T13:44:52Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:45:35Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:47:21Z balle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T13:49:49Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T13:53:51Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:55:06Z Oladon joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:55:15Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T13:55:46Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T13:56:21Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:57:31Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:57:49Z balle joined #lisp
2016-01-13T13:59:25Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:02:44Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:03:56Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T14:13:52Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T14:14:40Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:19:11Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:19:22Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:20:18Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:20:42Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T14:29:40Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T14:31:48Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:33:06Z radioninja_work quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T14:33:30Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:36:39Z Warlock_29A quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-13T14:39:55Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:40:07Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:42:30Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T14:44:01Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:44:35Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T14:45:55Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:46:38Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T14:47:51Z katco left #lisp
2016-01-13T14:47:59Z katco joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:49:26Z jyuan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T14:50:58Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:51:49Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-13T14:51:58Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:52:25Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:53:29Z zman2013 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:53:45Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T14:54:06Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:55:37Z zman2013 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T14:56:33Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:56:42Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-13T14:57:40Z keix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T15:00:47Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:00:56Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:00:56Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-13T15:00:56Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:01:04Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-13T15:03:01Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T15:16:50Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:17:07Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:18:40Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T15:20:03Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:20:50Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T15:22:20Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:22:31Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:23:47Z eudoxia quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T15:27:00Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-13T15:28:37Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:33:59Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:35:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T15:36:10Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:37:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T15:38:01Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:38:43Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:41:54Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T15:42:18Z Karl_Dscc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T15:43:03Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:44:31Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:46:56Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:47:10Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:47:15Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T15:49:34Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T15:49:38Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-13T15:56:16Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:01:38Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:02:40Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:03:19Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:05:20Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T16:05:21Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-13T16:06:34Z chishiki quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-13T16:08:30Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T16:08:39Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-13T16:08:58Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:09:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:13:50Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:17:11Z luis: my copy of Common Lisp Recipes got damaged in route and wasn't delivered at all. :-/
2016-01-13T16:17:17Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:18:27Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:18:36Z mordocai: luis: :(. Are they resending?
2016-01-13T16:20:45Z splittist: strict rationing. no replacements!
2016-01-13T16:21:19Z optikalmouse: the dystopia of lisp-world :(
2016-01-13T16:21:54Z Uber-Ich joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:21:58Z splittist: I'm sure it'll be garbage collected and recycled.
2016-01-13T16:23:25Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T16:23:55Z PuercoPop: Mine is in route for at least 2 more weeks!
2016-01-13T16:24:25Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-13T16:25:44Z optikalmouse: this is about perl, but it's still nice and how I feel whenever I write anything lispy: http://blogs.perl.org/users/zoffix_znet/2016/01/why-in-the-world-would-anyone-use-perl-6.html
2016-01-13T16:27:30Z mordocai: optikalmouse: Too bad perl is inferior :P
2016-01-13T16:28:09Z djh: Technically, it's about Perl6, which is different to Perl :P
2016-01-13T16:29:13Z mordocai: Meh, it got some new features but still the same ol' perl to me
2016-01-13T16:29:18Z mordocai: And I don't actually dislike it
2016-01-13T16:29:23Z mordocai: much
2016-01-13T16:31:49Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-13T16:32:08Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:32:44Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:34:55Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T16:34:57Z optikalmouse: what I really like about perl and CL for that matter is they both start with coders are actually doing
2016-01-13T16:35:12Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:35:12Z optikalmouse: :o
2016-01-13T16:35:17Z akkad: https://gist.github.com/bf68aa2f1968e24ce877 anyway I can speed that up?
2016-01-13T16:35:37Z PuercoPop: mordocai: It seems to have a different 'turtle' underneath with extensible grammars
2016-01-13T16:36:39Z mordocai: akkad: I'd profile it
2016-01-13T16:37:06Z mordocai: akkad: You may be just waiting on disk IO, I think reading in larger than one line chunks should help with that but profiling will tell you where to look probably
2016-01-13T16:37:24Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T16:37:29Z Xach: akkad: you want a string of whatever is before the first occurrence of "postgresql: "?
2016-01-13T16:37:55Z djh: Perl6 is basically a brand-new language that was inspired by Perl.. I've yet to decide if I like it enough to try learning it properly
2016-01-13T16:38:02Z Xach: akkad: it's hard to make good suggestions when the semantics aren't too precisely explained, sorry
2016-01-13T16:38:28Z Xach: operating directly on things, and using names like "doit", are generally not illuminating
2016-01-13T16:38:56Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T16:39:03Z akkad: gotcha. thanks
2016-01-13T16:39:03Z splittist: WRITE, SEARCH and SUBSEQ might suffice.
2016-01-13T16:39:29Z akkad: typically I'm doing the equivalent of awk -F"some string" '{print $2}' < file
2016-01-13T16:39:54Z jackdaniel: (defun work! (arg1 arg2 &key key-arg3) …)
2016-01-13T16:40:39Z Xach: akkad: using ppcre:split like that is likely to generate a lot of garbage if you only want one thing.
2016-01-13T16:40:51Z Xach: akkad: so one way to get faster is to be a bit more targeted.
2016-01-13T16:41:01Z akkad: ok. should I look at split-sequence?
2016-01-13T16:41:12Z akkad: makes sense
2016-01-13T16:41:16Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:41:40Z Xach: akkad: split-sequence has the same issue with garbage.
2016-01-13T16:42:13Z akkad: I'd be better off removing unwanted portion vs tokenizing the whole thing
2016-01-13T16:42:53Z Xach: akkad: another way to think of the problem is "Return the subsequence of the input bounded by the nth and nth+1 occurrences of the delimiter string"
2016-01-13T16:43:28Z Xach: that still involves finding the occurrences of the delimiter, but doesn't involve extracting anything until you find the position of the nth+1 (and you don't have to keep searching after that)
2016-01-13T16:43:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T16:44:22Z Xach: with splitting, you have to create subsequences and search for delimiters until the end.
2016-01-13T16:44:35Z Xach: of course, it's simple, and easy to understand, so if it's not a bottleneck, no reason to get more complex.
2016-01-13T16:45:45Z akkad: :D
2016-01-13T16:45:47Z akkad: thanks.
2016-01-13T16:47:02Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:49:40Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T16:49:56Z znpy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T16:51:01Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-13T16:52:23Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T16:54:28Z PlasmaStar quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T16:54:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T16:55:29Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:55:55Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-13T16:57:27Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T16:58:14Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-13T17:02:50Z contrapunctus: Sorry to bring up this subject again, but...has anyone considered/is anyone considering writing applications for any of the extant (and for whatever degree of 'complete') Lisp OS projects?
2016-01-13T17:03:07Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-13T17:07:02Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:09:23Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:10:05Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:11:54Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:12:22Z cat_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:12:31Z tcr_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T17:12:48Z cat_ is now known as dfcat
2016-01-13T17:12:51Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:12:51Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-13T17:12:51Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:13:13Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:13:30Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:17:00Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T17:17:38Z PuercoPop: contrapunctus: you mean like more apps for Mezzano?
2016-01-13T17:17:46Z contrapunctus: PuercoPop: yeah
2016-01-13T17:17:58Z warweasle quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ))
2016-01-13T17:19:15Z eudoxia: probably not
2016-01-13T17:19:18Z PuercoPop: not really apps but I had been reading the compiler code. A friend of mine was trying to fix a bug in the ethernet driver iirc
2016-01-13T17:19:29Z eudoxia: i've been meaning to look at mezzano's graphics code source
2016-01-13T17:20:02Z PuercoPop: and nyef contributed some improvements as well.
2016-01-13T17:21:35Z contrapunctus: I guess I meant to ask - would it be considered practically useful to write applications for it?
2016-01-13T17:21:49Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:22:07Z contrapunctus: (I've not yet used it - mean to, soon.)
2016-01-13T17:22:16Z eudoxia: you're probably not going to be deploying your web app to a Mezzano cluster on AWS any time soon
2016-01-13T17:22:25Z contrapunctus: lol
2016-01-13T17:22:29Z eudoxia: your metric function for 'practical' might vary
2016-01-13T17:22:30Z contrapunctus: no, for personal use
2016-01-13T17:22:36Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T17:23:04Z eudoxia: for experimenting with an OS small enough that you can hold it all in your head, i'd say yeah
2016-01-13T17:23:55Z jackdaniel: hrm, if all libs CL app implement mezzano backend, then all applications may profit
2016-01-13T17:24:20Z contrapunctus: jackdaniel: 'all libs CL app'?
2016-01-13T17:24:51Z jackdaniel: lets say you write photo viewer in CL which uses McCLIM
2016-01-13T17:25:06Z jackdaniel: if McCLIM has mezzano backend, then it would work on mezzano
2016-01-13T17:25:27Z jackdaniel: if McCLIM has X backend, then it would work also on unix with X
2016-01-13T17:25:39Z eudoxia: a lot of things like SQL databases won't work unless you have a CL SQL DB that runs on Mezzano
2016-01-13T17:25:41Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T17:26:06Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T17:28:11Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:29:40Z Uber-Ich quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-13T17:29:45Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-13T17:31:36Z sebboh: pjb: hey thank you!
2016-01-13T17:31:44Z sebboh: re: http://paste.lisp.org/display/305045
2016-01-13T17:31:45Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:32:42Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:33:32Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T17:35:20Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-13T17:35:56Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-13T17:38:09Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:38:26Z Guest58488 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T17:38:30Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:40:02Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T17:40:21Z sebboh: Question for anyone: in that paste I just linked to, on lines 67-71 (enable line numbers with checkbox at bottom of page)... I see that the arguments are being... Pushed onto some stack or register?  Is the place the args are being pushed a piece of hardware?
2016-01-13T17:41:51Z jackdaniel: why are you studying assembly? O_o
2016-01-13T17:42:01Z jackdaniel: (curious)
2016-01-13T17:42:16Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:42:18Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-13T17:42:27Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-13T17:42:30Z sebboh: jackdaniel: I'm not. pjb put that paste together for me to demonstrate compile-time macros.
2016-01-13T17:42:41Z eudoxia: good evening beach
2016-01-13T17:43:07Z jackdaniel: good evening
2016-01-13T17:43:17Z beach: contrapunctus: Just to make sure, I hope you are not confusing Mezzano and what I describe here: http://metamodular.com/Common-Lisp/lispos.html right?
2016-01-13T17:43:25Z sebboh: my question is just curiosity.  I had no idea that my defuns were ending up as machine code. I am more familiar with interpreters and bytecode VMs.
2016-01-13T17:43:33Z sebboh: (But I guess I repeat myself!)
2016-01-13T17:44:01Z jasom: sebboh: read up on x86 assembly; in this case it's being pushed onto the C stack which is represented by the register %rsp
2016-01-13T17:44:12Z contrapunctus: beach: I meant any extant Lisp OSes. I was pointed to your writing by this channel, btw, really interesting read.
2016-01-13T17:44:32Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:44:44Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T17:44:52Z jasom: sebboh: so pushq FOO will subtract 8 from %rsp and put the quadword (64-bit value) FOO in the location in memory pointed to be the new value of %rsp
2016-01-13T17:45:27Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:45:31Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:45:51Z beach: contrapunctus: Thanks.  As far as I can tell the objectives are quite different, though.
2016-01-13T17:46:13Z sebboh: jasom, the C stack is a datastructure inside the kernel?  And the (physical) register %rsp points to it, ie, it tracks the "top" or "end" of said stack.
2016-01-13T17:46:24Z beach: contrapunctus: But to answer your questions [reading the logs] everything I write is ultimately aimed for the system I describe on those pages.
2016-01-13T17:46:36Z jasom: sebboh: the kernel is not at all involved; it's just memory
2016-01-13T17:47:02Z beach: contrapunctus: SICL, for instance, is meant to provide the basis in the form of a Common Lisp system with first-class global environments.
2016-01-13T17:47:31Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T17:47:36Z sebboh: jasom, the kernel is not involved?  Then why don't I set %rsp to the memory space of some other process?
2016-01-13T17:47:51Z jasom: sebboh: because of virtual memory
2016-01-13T17:48:04Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:48:08Z jasom: sebboh: all addresses accessible to a process are virtual, not physical addresses
2016-01-13T17:48:44Z sebboh: jasom, ok, I have heard that. I figured the kernel handles these virtual addresses...
2016-01-13T17:49:04Z jasom: sebboh: the kernel is typically responsible for setting up the hardware that manages them
2016-01-13T17:49:14Z jasom: sebboh: but once it's setup the kernel need not be involved
2016-01-13T17:49:26Z beach: contrapunctus: And for applications, this accounting system: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Compta is using the CLIM II interface manager.  The entire application is 400 lines of code, half of which is GUI.
2016-01-13T17:50:02Z contrapunctus: beach: hm...those sort of sound like Scheme environments IIUC. Existing CL implementations don't have them?
2016-01-13T17:50:45Z beach: Common Lisp does not have first-class global environments, no.  And I don't think Scheme does either.  I might be wrong of course.
2016-01-13T17:51:38Z beach: contrapunctus: Here is the paper describing first-class global environments: http://metamodular.com/environments.pdf
2016-01-13T17:51:48Z beach: contrapunctus: Does it look like Scheme has something like that?
2016-01-13T17:51:49Z jasom: lisp doesn't have first-class lexical environments for that matter either...
2016-01-13T17:51:50Z sebboh: jasom, one last question: what do you call that hardware, or what do you call the .. opcodes? that you'd use to interact with it?
2016-01-13T17:51:58Z beach: jasom: Right.
2016-01-13T17:52:01Z jasom: sebboh: typically the MMU
2016-01-13T17:52:08Z beach: jasom: Well, sort of right.
2016-01-13T17:52:25Z beach: jasom: There is such an object, but no operations are defined on it. :)
2016-01-13T17:52:36Z jasom: beach: I'd call that second class :)
2016-01-13T17:52:51Z sebboh: jasom, oh, I've heard of that, but I thought its job was limited to translating the physical layout of DRAM chips to a single large logical block.
2016-01-13T17:52:58Z beach: jasom: I can agree with that. :)
2016-01-13T17:53:32Z jasom: sebboh: not quite right
2016-01-13T17:53:37Z contrapunctus: beach: oh, I see. Thanks.
2016-01-13T17:53:59Z jasom: sebboh: it's better to think of it as translating virtual addresses (a single large logical block) to bus addresses (a different single large logical block)
2016-01-13T17:54:02Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:54:09Z contrapunctus: (I'm a bit new to all three, programming, Scheme, and CL, and thus easily confused)
2016-01-13T17:54:17Z jasom: sebboh: the memory controller (or dram contrller sometimes) is what translates a set of logical addresses to the pysical dram stuff
2016-01-13T17:54:19Z beach: contrapunctus: Dinner is imminent here, but I'll be happy to discuss this stuff with you some other time.
2016-01-13T17:54:35Z beach: contrapunctus: Or you can send me email if you like.
2016-01-13T17:54:48Z jasom: sebboh: and note that there is more than just dram on the system bus typically; for example PCI gets some of the system bus space typically
2016-01-13T17:54:49Z beach: I tend to be here mostly early morning (UTC+1)
2016-01-13T17:54:51Z sebboh: jasom, ah, I see.  I thought the MMU was the dram controller.  Well now I know. :)
2016-01-13T17:55:20Z beach: sebboh: I recommend a book on OS technology.
2016-01-13T17:55:39Z jasom: sebboh: I'd recommend Patterson/Hennesey
2016-01-13T17:55:49Z beach: that too.
2016-01-13T17:55:59Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-13T17:56:05Z sebboh: the memory bus. Sure, hardware can present pieces of itself as ranges of addresses on that bus.
2016-01-13T17:56:18Z contrapunctus: beach: cool, thanks!
2016-01-13T17:57:08Z jasom: Computer Organization and Design: The Hardware/Software Interface by Patterson and Hennessy
2016-01-13T17:57:10Z kushal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T17:57:23Z jasom: sebboh: start there; I don't have a good OS book to recommend though
2016-01-13T17:57:34Z sebboh: re: books, noted, if I want to learn more. ;)  I generally operate several layers of abstraction away from such things.
2016-01-13T17:57:35Z beach: There aren't any in fact. :)
2016-01-13T17:57:56Z jasom: If I were a halfway decent writer, maybe I'd write one
2016-01-13T17:57:59Z beach: But Silberschatz and Galvin seems to be the norm.
2016-01-13T17:58:19Z knobo quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-13T17:58:24Z jasom: Is that the dinosaur one?
2016-01-13T17:58:30Z beach: jasom: We could collaborate on one.  I have started one already.
2016-01-13T17:58:57Z beach: Right, dinosaurs.
2016-01-13T17:59:40Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:00:22Z jasom: beach: Unfortunately I'd have to clear anything I share about the OS I'm most familiar with, as it's proprietary, and I've read most of the source of it.
2016-01-13T18:01:01Z beach: Interesting, which one is that?
2016-01-13T18:01:07Z ggole__ quit
2016-01-13T18:01:20Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T18:01:55Z beach: My planned book is not about a particular system, other than the historical description.  Instead it will be more about the purpose of the OS and how one can accomplish its purpose in different ways.
2016-01-13T18:02:20Z beach: All the OS books I have read (and that's quite a few) are just descriptions of existing technology.
2016-01-13T18:03:03Z Bike: the first paper i read on anything was a thesis about OS design. it seems theses go more hog wild speculative
2016-01-13T18:03:07Z beach: They seem to have no opinion as to whether that technology is good or bad, nor even why things are the way they are.
2016-01-13T18:03:29Z beach: OOPS, dinner.  I might be back later.
2016-01-13T18:04:33Z jasom: beach: yeah the one we used in college was "Here's how Sun, Linux, and NT did it, with the history of Unix/ just do whatever is most expedient/ VMS" behind each one
2016-01-13T18:04:49Z sebboh: Request: somebody make a cellular automata that can used (more efficently than Conway's GoL) as a general purpose CPU.  Then just run that CA on ASICs or whatever you like.
2016-01-13T18:05:10Z Bike: Why?
2016-01-13T18:07:09Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T18:07:26Z sebboh: Cause I estimate that such a platform would have a future.  Oh, here's an additional requirement: the proposed CA must allow some execution algorithm analogous to "Hashlife".
2016-01-13T18:08:21Z Bike: Why would you want hardware that can be emulated faster on a traditional computer?
2016-01-13T18:08:35Z gz_ quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:35Z oskarth quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:35Z happy-dude quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:35Z CEnnis91 quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:35Z Neet quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:35Z alms_clozure quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:37Z tobel quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:37Z XachX quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:37Z pootler_ quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:37Z trig-ger quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:41Z l1x quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:43Z gendl quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:08:43Z wyan quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z NhanH quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z ggherdov quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z splittist quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z danlentz quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z frankS2 quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z billstclair quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z lancetw quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z banjiewen quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z faheem quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z asedeno quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z victor_lowther quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z rvirding quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z drmeister quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z gbyers quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z d4gg4d quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-13T18:09:07Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T18:09:25Z Bike: also, the operations of a GoL computer are perfect for frustrating hashlife execution, exactly as you'd expect
2016-01-13T18:09:43Z zwdr: haha those k-lines
2016-01-13T18:10:51Z contrapunctus: odd, why so many?
2016-01-13T18:10:52Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:10:59Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:12:36Z sebboh: Bike: I think it'd be cool for my personal computer to be nothing more than a vast 2d array of bits and a few simple rules.  If a word processor (or any other software) was basically a bitmap that I "physically" blit onto some range of the plane, I would greatly enjoy watching the gears spin every time I hit a key. :)  And re: GoL computers being a pathological case for hashlife, well, er, *hand waving* functional programming. :)
2016-01-13T18:14:02Z sebboh: s/2d/whatever is appropriate for the proposed CA/
2016-01-13T18:15:15Z oskarth joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:15:25Z Bike: that's like saying "*hand waving* ATP synthase", it doesn't even make sense as a joke
2016-01-13T18:15:45Z Bike: don't get me wrong, i like distributed computer stuff, i just don't understand where hashlife comes into it
2016-01-13T18:15:51Z faheem joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:15:56Z d4gg4d joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:16:06Z rvirding joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:16:40Z Bike: plus any physically implemented CA would be at least somewhat amenable to hashlife, since there is a speed of light in real life.
2016-01-13T18:17:14Z gendl joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:17:15Z optikalmouse: sebboh: it's called colorforth!
2016-01-13T18:17:18Z optikalmouse: or greenforth or something.
2016-01-13T18:17:32Z trig-ger joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:17:48Z victor_lowther joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:18:05Z tomaw quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
2016-01-13T18:18:09Z tomaw_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:18:34Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:18:35Z XachX joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:18:43Z splittist joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:18:47Z tomaw_ is now known as tomaw
2016-01-13T18:18:51Z optikalmouse: sebboh: GreenArrays!
2016-01-13T18:18:52Z gz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:18:53Z optikalmouse: http://www.colorforth.com/S40.htm
2016-01-13T18:18:54Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:18:58Z l1x joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:19:02Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:19:02Z optikalmouse: oops wrong link: http://www.greenarraychips.com/
2016-01-13T18:19:16Z optikalmouse: "144 independent computers"
2016-01-13T18:20:06Z gbyers joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:20:12Z cabaire quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-13T18:20:13Z alms_clozure joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:20:19Z sebboh: optikalmouse: cool.  Bike: I'm just a daydreamer.  You'll note that I made a request, not a CA. :)
2016-01-13T18:20:20Z lancetw joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:20:49Z NhanH joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:20:54Z pootler_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:22:11Z Bike: anyway, i had a professor who was trying to sell CAputers, let's see if I can dig him up again...
2016-01-13T18:22:39Z Neet joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:23:08Z danlentz joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:23:10Z drmeister joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:23:14Z sebboh: Neat.
2016-01-13T18:23:54Z Bike: his stupid site is broken, but here it is anyway http://www.cellmatrix.com
2016-01-13T18:24:01Z billstclair joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:24:29Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-13T18:24:57Z wyan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:25:15Z asedeno joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:25:27Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:26:09Z sebboh: Bike, the old site is still up. http://www.cellmatrix.com/entryway/products/concepts/intro1.html Is this what you were looking for?
2016-01-13T18:26:22Z Bike: yeah, that's more like it.
2016-01-13T18:26:58Z frankS2 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:27:08Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:28:16Z sebboh: oh there is actually source on here. There is a layout editor which claims to be able to construct arbitrary physical electrical circuits.  Which sounds spot-on, given the topic.
2016-01-13T18:28:42Z sebboh: s/source/java classes/
2016-01-13T18:29:28Z Bike: i mostly remember this guy because he told the story of breaking warranty on a VAX and programming in an instruction to do binary search. fun times
2016-01-13T18:30:22Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T18:30:29Z sebboh: Bike thanks for the new rabbit hole to dig around in. I'm off to lunch.
2016-01-13T18:30:45Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T18:31:22Z tobel joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:33:07Z kdas_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:35:50Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T18:36:22Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T18:36:34Z kdas_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T18:36:46Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:37:28Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:41:28Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:43:59Z beach: jasom: Exactly.  I think they are pretty much all like that.  I want to write a different one.
2016-01-13T18:44:07Z beach: [otherwise there would be no point]
2016-01-13T18:44:57Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-13T18:45:34Z Guest58488 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:45:35Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:45:48Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T18:47:32Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-13T18:48:47Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T18:49:13Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:50:59Z netytan quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T18:54:35Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:56:17Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-13T18:56:53Z mishoo_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-13T18:58:03Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:02:02Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T19:02:54Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:05:46Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T19:10:16Z Guest58488 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-13T19:10:28Z flavi0 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-13T19:12:05Z Baggers left #lisp
2016-01-13T19:13:09Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T19:17:47Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:18:11Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T19:19:06Z Warlock[29A]: Hi all. Does anybody tried to create standalone application using ECL under Windows?
2016-01-13T19:19:25Z Xach notes the hex of the beast
2016-01-13T19:19:54Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:20:15Z jackdaniel: Warlock[29A]: yes, but you have to have a C compiler
2016-01-13T19:20:46Z jackdaniel: Warlock[29A]: the easiest way would be to build ECL from cygwin and use gcc from it
2016-01-13T19:20:51Z Warlock[29A]: I have installed Visual Studio 2015 with C++
2016-01-13T19:20:57Z Warlock[29A]: and MinGW
2016-01-13T19:21:00Z Warlock[29A]: with gcc
2016-01-13T19:21:18Z Warlock[29A]: I trying to use this tutorial (https://common-lisp.net/project/ecl/manual/ch34s06.html). Under linux it's works good, but under windows I got error 'Cannot find the external symbol BUILD-PROGRAM in #<"C" package>.'
2016-01-13T19:21:22Z jackdaniel: then you have to "install" C compiler - bytecmp is enabled by default
2016-01-13T19:21:28Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:21:59Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-13T19:21:59Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:22:58Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:23:21Z jackdaniel: (c:install-c-compiler)
2016-01-13T19:23:30Z jackdaniel: gcc has to be accessible in system PATH
2016-01-13T19:23:33Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:23:39Z PuercoPop: jackdaniel: btw do you know what is the difference between ECL and ManKai?
2016-01-13T19:24:03Z jackdaniel: PuercoPop: as far as I've digged through old mailing lists (fork happened before I knew ECL)
2016-01-13T19:24:28Z jackdaniel: it was fork without a clear reason. AFAIK it has some improved (or "improved"), windows support
2016-01-13T19:24:36Z BitPuffin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T19:24:37Z jackdaniel: and multithreding is a must
2016-01-13T19:24:38Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T19:24:54Z jackdaniel: (that is you can't build w/o threads), and also linux platform is semi-dropped
2016-01-13T19:25:59Z attila_lendvai: I don't hesitate much before forking, but I've never forked without a discussion. that's just uncivilized...
2016-01-13T19:26:37Z jackdaniel: the point is, that his patches would be probably accepted (what I infere from the ML)
2016-01-13T19:26:55Z jasom: ah, with commondoc now existing, I'm dusting off my rst parser; I had almost forgotten how I (ab)used backgtracking to parse tables
2016-01-13T19:27:10Z PuercoPop: the author continues to develop mkcl, but I don't know in what direction that would be incompatible with ECL
2016-01-13T19:27:20Z Warlock[29A]: jackdaniel: I ran ecl.exe and executed (c:install-c-compiler) and i got error Cannot find the external symbol INSTALL-C-COMPILER in #<"C" package>. What is means?
2016-01-13T19:27:34Z PuercoPop: have you asked him if his interested in 'merging'?
2016-01-13T19:27:56Z jackdaniel: PuercoPop: from the ml I've infered, that his patches would be accepted by Jose, he just didn't bother
2016-01-13T19:28:05Z jackdaniel: and he changed all the prefixes from ecl_ to mkcl_
2016-01-13T19:28:22Z jackdaniel: PuercoPop: you may ask antonv for further details, I remember I saw him on this thread of ML
2016-01-13T19:29:12Z jackdaniel: I've asked mkcl maintainer, if he doesn't mind giving me explicit license to merge back some changes if I find any (mkcl is lgplv3), he said he has to think about it and will write back soon
2016-01-13T19:29:23Z jackdaniel: that was ~6 months ago
2016-01-13T19:29:53Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:29:57Z jackdaniel: Warlock[29A]: I don't have ecl VM up, could you post an issue on gitlab? I'll check this thing up soon
2016-01-13T19:30:07Z jackdaniel: gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/issues
2016-01-13T19:30:30Z jackdaniel: s/ecl VM/Windows VM/
2016-01-13T19:30:34Z PuercoPop:  well at least you tried!
2016-01-13T19:31:10Z jackdaniel: yes, right now I'm very interested in merging and sharing repository of portable part of ECL with CLASP – drmeister is interested but seems to be short on time
2016-01-13T19:34:16Z Warlock[29A]: jackdaniel: Ok, thanks! I will do it. Now, i try compile it from source into MinGW, as you said.
2016-01-13T19:34:27Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:34:37Z jackdaniel: I've suggested cygwin ;)
2016-01-13T19:34:38Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T19:35:04Z jackdaniel: but cygwin imposes GPL license on apps linked to it, minGW doesn't
2016-01-13T19:36:21Z pjb: sebboh: actually, often the kernel/processor impose a "stack" on one specific register (usually, a dedicated processor register), to handle interruptions.  On some processors, the kernel may set a flag to have the processor use a specific priviledged stack register for interrupts, but it's not always available.  That's the only constraint imposing a stack in userspace.
2016-01-13T19:37:28Z Warlock[29A]: jackdaniel: For first I just want to create work example :)
2016-01-13T19:37:38Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T19:38:01Z pjb: sebboh: (in the case of unix signals, there are options to deliver them on a specific stack, or to use this processor dedicated stack register, which usually points to the current thread stack (or some random thread in multi-core processors).
2016-01-13T19:38:32Z jackdaniel: Warlock[29A]: cygwin should give you "linux-like" behavior
2016-01-13T19:38:46Z jackdaniel: while on mingw I'll have to investigate it
2016-01-13T19:39:04Z jackdaniel: you gave me a really nice idea on issue for ecl quarterly :)
2016-01-13T19:39:18Z pjb: sebboh: So if you configure linux to use a dedicated stack for signals and interrupt and leave that stack alone, the rest of your userspace process can work without using any stack.  Notice that syscalls would use that stack, but you can consider syscalls as software interrupts.
2016-01-13T19:40:33Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:42:00Z Warlock[29A]: jackdaniel: Ok, i understand. I have Cygwin. I will switch on it . Thanks for help! :)
2016-01-13T19:42:59Z jackdaniel: sure. note, that working with minGW will be differt, since it maps to windows api, while cygwin provides posix api
2016-01-13T19:43:21Z jackdaniel: so this example may be not representative if you want to use mingw in the future
2016-01-13T19:44:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:45:29Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T19:46:47Z fourier: Is where a nice pattern on how to dig inside list of list of lists ? To not to write something like let ((something ...)) (when something (let ((something2 (dig-in-something))) (when something2 ((let something3 dig-in-something2
2016-01-13T19:47:43Z jackdaniel: fourier: subst
2016-01-13T19:47:54Z jackdaniel: but it's bit tricky :)
2016-01-13T19:47:59Z Warlock[29A]: jackdaniel: i have no preference between Cygwin or MinGw. If i can compile under Cygwin, ok, i will use Cygwin.
2016-01-13T19:48:08Z jackdaniel: also you may write higher-order function maptree
2016-01-13T19:48:10Z m0li quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T19:48:18Z Bike: you could write a simple macro. i personally haven't wanted to do something like that.
2016-01-13T19:48:43Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-13T19:49:22Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-13T19:49:23Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-13T19:49:41Z fourier: jackdaniel: hm :)
2016-01-13T19:50:01Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:50:36Z fourier: I feel is something like xpath actually
2016-01-13T19:51:46Z dlowe: fourier: most things that take lists will return NIL and accept NIL
2016-01-13T19:52:12Z dlowe: so (car (car (car foo))) will return NIL rather than signal a condition
2016-01-13T19:53:30Z fourier: dlowe: aah good
2016-01-13T19:54:58Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T19:55:40Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:55:45Z fourier: aah thanks everybody, looks like Alexandria's when-let* (or similar) will do the trick
2016-01-13T19:56:25Z jackdaniel: there's also ensure-list
2016-01-13T19:57:55Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-13T19:58:08Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T19:58:40Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T20:01:12Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T20:05:54Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:06:57Z fiveop joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:09:57Z omilu joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:10:12Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:11:22Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-13T20:13:51Z dwrngr joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:17:23Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T20:21:15Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:25:06Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:25:12Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:26:02Z jasom: dlowe: nil is a list
2016-01-13T20:26:53Z dlowe: jasom: you are correct. Need any more help?
2016-01-13T20:27:25Z jasom: dlowe: no, just pointing out that all things that take lists will accept nil
2016-01-13T20:27:34Z jasom: not just most
2016-01-13T20:27:35Z dlowe: jasom: didn't I just say that?
2016-01-13T20:27:49Z dlowe: not all things that take list will both return and accept NIL
2016-01-13T20:28:15Z netytan quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T20:28:29Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:29:03Z jasom: dlowe: maybe I just misunderstood you
2016-01-13T20:30:05Z jasom: obviously e.g. length will accept a list but won't ever return nil; is that what you were saying?
2016-01-13T20:30:07Z dlowe: but yes, all things that take lists will accept NIL. That may not be easily apparent to a beginner, though.
2016-01-13T20:30:57Z dlowe: you know, I think I'm gonna answer newbie questions on privmsg from now on
2016-01-13T20:34:17Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-13T20:35:08Z jasom: fourier: you may want to consider using a pattern matching library like optima, depending on exactly what you mean by"like xpath"
2016-01-13T20:36:24Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:36:59Z dwrngr quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-13T20:42:08Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T20:42:29Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:45:53Z sebboh: pjb, sorry, I don't understand.  But that's OK, I'm just missing some pre-reqs, and you've already recommended a book.
2016-01-13T20:49:45Z dwrngr joined #lisp
2016-01-13T20:59:54Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:00:30Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-13T21:00:32Z netytan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T21:00:54Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:04:24Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:04:26Z fiveop quit
2016-01-13T21:11:05Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-13T21:12:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:16:04Z netytan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T21:16:29Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:18:52Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:19:27Z freehck` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T21:22:16Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:27:01Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Fixing some logging stuff; BRB)
2016-01-13T21:27:14Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-13T21:27:23Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:27:25Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-13T21:27:44Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:32:15Z shka_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T21:32:29Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:36:10Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:37:34Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:38:15Z dwrngr left #lisp
2016-01-13T21:38:30Z netytan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T21:38:38Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-13T21:38:51Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-13T21:38:57Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:39:16Z Baggers left #lisp
2016-01-13T21:40:58Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-13T21:43:53Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:44:21Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:44:30Z keix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T21:45:07Z pbgc quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T21:50:33Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:50:47Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:51:50Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-13T21:57:34Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T21:59:53Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T22:00:11Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T22:00:16Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:04:54Z ramky quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T22:08:15Z n7eg8AWF joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:09:46Z msb quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-13T22:11:20Z msb joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:11:55Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-13T22:12:55Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T22:13:00Z netytan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T22:13:25Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:14:17Z spupuser quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-13T22:15:26Z n7eg8AWF left #lisp
2016-01-13T22:17:09Z otwieracz: Is it possible to somehow make systems depend on specific version?
2016-01-13T22:17:22Z otwieracz: (and to respect this with quicklisp?)
2016-01-13T22:19:18Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:19:59Z mordocai: otwieracz: ish. http://blog.quicklisp.org/2011/08/going-back-in-dist-time.html
2016-01-13T22:20:31Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:20:38Z XachX: otwieracz: no
2016-01-13T22:21:22Z otwieracz: Looks like it's quite impossible, right?
2016-01-13T22:21:28Z otwieracz: As far as I understand.
2016-01-13T22:21:51Z mordocai: Xach would know, he wrote/maintains quicklisp :P
2016-01-13T22:22:02Z otwieracz: I totally agree.
2016-01-13T22:22:19Z otwieracz: I am just thinking by myself why this might be even impossible.
2016-01-13T22:22:41Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-13T22:23:00Z otwieracz: XachX: That's because the only place to specify dependencies is system definition, where asdf knows nothing about quicklisp releases. Right?
2016-01-13T22:24:14Z puchacz quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-13T22:24:14Z XachX: That's an obstacle, yes
2016-01-13T22:25:12Z otwieracz: Maybe we need something like Ruby's bundler.
2016-01-13T22:25:50Z otwieracz: Specifying list of Quicklisp dependencies with dist release date.
2016-01-13T22:25:56Z otwieracz: And create bundle out of it.
2016-01-13T22:26:16Z ieure: Whoa wait just hold up a sec there
2016-01-13T22:26:17Z XachX: Qlot does that.
2016-01-13T22:26:24Z otwieracz: Qlot?
2016-01-13T22:27:13Z XachX: Qlot.
2016-01-13T22:27:39Z ieure: Even people I know who like Ruby refer to it as "bungler"
2016-01-13T22:28:02Z Petit_Dejeuner: https://github.com/fukamachi/qlot
2016-01-13T22:28:04Z otwieracz: That's certainly true that everything has been already invented :)
2016-01-13T22:28:38Z otwieracz: ieure: I am not getting into technical details here. I was just talking about way of selecting specific version of dependency.
2016-01-13T22:36:32Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-13T22:39:34Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:40:03Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-13T22:40:57Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T22:41:29Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:41:33Z moore33 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-13T22:41:50Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:44:20Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: More bugfixes)
2016-01-13T22:44:53Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:49:45Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-13T22:52:30Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-13T22:55:12Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-13T22:55:35Z Guest58488 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T22:56:51Z jasom: Anybody else run into an issue where quasiquotation causes slime to barf when it attempts to locate the position in the source file of a warning?
2016-01-13T22:58:59Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-13T22:59:28Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:00:31Z jasom: sbcl 1.3.0; emacs 24.5.2; slime from latest quicklisp
2016-01-13T23:01:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:01:32Z mach quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:01:35Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:02:05Z loke``` joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:02:22Z duper quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:02:24Z loke`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T23:02:52Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:03:21Z mach joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:06:30Z freehck quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:06:51Z mordocai: Saw this on /r/lisp https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/637581271/the-3l-project
2016-01-13T23:06:54Z duper joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:07:38Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:08:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:08:57Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-13T23:09:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:09:23Z jasom: mordocai: the author seems confused; at one point he says it runs lisp, at another point says it runs r7rs
2016-01-13T23:09:52Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:10:46Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:11:05Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T23:11:39Z jsgrant: jasom: A common issue in lingustical classification of Lisp, is that they will refer to Scheme as being part of the "Lisp Family of Languages" or a "Lisp-like" language.
2016-01-13T23:12:15Z mordocai: Yeah, I posted it before I finished reading it. Would probably fit more in #scheme
2016-01-13T23:12:27Z jasom: jsgrant: right, but it is very rare for someone to refer to scheme as "lisp" rather than "a lisp" or "a dialect of lisp" or "a language in the lisp family"
2016-01-13T23:13:07Z jsgrant: jasom: Ah, didn't click/read through it when I posted that; Just started looking into the source url given. :^P
2016-01-13T23:14:14Z jsgrant: 90,000 USD goal; Jebus.
2016-01-13T23:14:31Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T23:15:29Z mordocai: Yeah, one year salary
2016-01-13T23:15:33Z mordocai: For the one guy
2016-01-13T23:16:32Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:17:32Z jsgrant: Does this guy have any kind of technical backing, that would go and lead one to be able believe he would be able to accomplish such goals?
2016-01-13T23:17:37Z wilfredh joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:19:03Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-13T23:20:16Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:20:33Z mordocai: jsgrant: Not that I saw on kickstarter
2016-01-13T23:21:44Z dwchandler: jasom: in my limited experience, scheme people typically say "scheme"
2016-01-13T23:21:57Z jasom: dwchandler: right
2016-01-13T23:22:06Z jasom: jsgrant: "I do most things in CHICKEN Scheme. I've done some small projects on the bare metal in x86 and ARMv6 assembly. Professionally I've hacked on Java and Javascript across the web stack for many years."
2016-01-13T23:22:08Z dwchandler: or "racket"
2016-01-13T23:22:25Z jasom: dwchandler: well racket specifically renamed itself to indicate it wasn't scheme
2016-01-13T23:22:34Z dwchandler: I know
2016-01-13T23:22:54Z dwchandler: "free to do what we want without purist yelling at us"
2016-01-13T23:22:55Z cadadar quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:23:17Z jsgrant: jasom: Yeah, saw that bit -- I was looking for some actual projects of scale on the low-level osdev side of things that leads me to believe they have some notable experience here.
2016-01-13T23:23:35Z jsgrant: Checking their Github + Bitbucket accounts, eh.
2016-01-13T23:23:57Z mordocai: Yeah, i'd say they probably don't have any relevant experience to show
2016-01-13T23:23:58Z jsgrant: The only public Osdev project I see is, https://github.com/ThomasHintz/hintz-os and it's practically empty.
2016-01-13T23:26:11Z jsgrant: They have http://thintz.com/projects/os-resources on their site, but yeah, pretty if not completely sparse.
2016-01-13T23:26:18Z oGMo: jsgrant: anyone who did would not post a KS like that asking for $90k
2016-01-13T23:26:24Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:26:37Z oGMo: with lots of "let's make it secure! in lisp!"
2016-01-13T23:26:41Z oGMo: and no details
2016-01-13T23:27:02Z jsgrant: oGMo: Oh, Kickstarter, that took me aback for a second. Is that a common shortening?
2016-01-13T23:27:14Z oGMo: jsgrant: that i've seen
2016-01-13T23:27:16Z mordocai: jsgrant: decently common yeah
2016-01-13T23:27:57Z jasom: oGMo: I know, not even a "here's a demo booting to a stripped-down REPL on qemu"
2016-01-13T23:28:13Z jsgrant: oGMo: Yeah, thinks and/or people like that make me a bit more skeptical of "crowdfunding platforms" as a whole.
2016-01-13T23:28:30Z jsgrant: things and/or people*
2016-01-13T23:28:32Z oGMo: jsgrant: well, to be fair, like 1 person has pledged heh
2016-01-13T23:29:43Z jsgrant wishes he had enough money for "wishful thinking seeding". :^I
2016-01-13T23:30:01Z oGMo: jasom: yeah. asking for $90k to finish up a very promising basically-complete project made by a team of OS and security engineers that wanted/needed certain certs would be reasonable
2016-01-13T23:30:52Z jsgrant gives froggey 100,000 usd to work on Mezzano for a year.
2016-01-13T23:30:56Z hiroakip quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-13T23:32:20Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:32:47Z jsgrant has become a cranky-old-man at 23, but yeah, years of optimism tied to years of being let down I guess will do that to you. :^P
2016-01-13T23:35:00Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:36:58Z jasom suddenly feels very old
2016-01-13T23:37:10Z jsgrant: I have little doubt though that someday, probably by the end of the decade -- a LispM-like Os will be bootable from real hardware.
2016-01-13T23:37:29Z jsgrant: Won't get to be that popular, likely, but it'll be an option.
2016-01-13T23:37:47Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:38:10Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-13T23:39:01Z jsgrant: jasom: At least you probably aren't part of the Old Guard of Lisp, and are starting to get really old comparatively.
2016-01-13T23:39:06Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-13T23:39:33Z jsgrant: And even if you were, you at least have gloating privileges.
2016-01-13T23:40:28Z jsgrant: jasom: Either or though, I'm kinda a weird case. I attribute Emacs saving me from Art School, at 16.
2016-01-13T23:53:09Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-13T23:56:20Z munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T00:02:50Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:03:11Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T00:03:24Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T00:04:25Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:04:27Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:08:55Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T00:11:06Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T00:13:55Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T00:14:15Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:18:23Z keix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T00:20:24Z ipmonger_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:20:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T00:21:00Z whartung quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T00:21:27Z jsgrant: Brb, probs.
2016-01-14T00:21:37Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T00:23:21Z ipmonger_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T00:24:07Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:24:44Z whartung joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:24:46Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:25:12Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T00:28:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:30:44Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:31:48Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T00:32:19Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T00:34:35Z heurist quit (Quit: heurist)
2016-01-14T00:35:15Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-14T00:35:25Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-14T00:35:36Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T00:37:11Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:41:53Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:41:54Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:42:18Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:45:22Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:47:50Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-14T00:54:41Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T00:55:12Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: quit)
2016-01-14T01:04:54Z stumbles joined #lisp
2016-01-14T01:07:57Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T01:10:46Z stumbles quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-14T01:10:48Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-14T01:11:44Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T01:12:57Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T01:13:26Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T01:16:13Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T01:18:25Z Guest58488 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T01:19:05Z tmlm joined #lisp
2016-01-14T01:19:59Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T01:23:14Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T01:24:56Z lisper29 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-14T01:26:31Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2016-01-14T01:26:40Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T01:33:50Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T01:34:54Z tmlm left #lisp
2016-01-14T01:38:37Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T01:47:26Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-14T01:50:06Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T01:50:30Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-14T01:56:23Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T01:57:15Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T02:00:31Z wilfredh quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-14T02:03:08Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:07:36Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:09:35Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:13:24Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T02:19:19Z wglb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T02:19:26Z wglb joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:29:15Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:31:46Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:37:05Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:37:55Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:41:41Z myrkraverk: Can I use LOOP WHILE and also catch the WHILE clause in a variable?
2016-01-14T02:41:56Z myrkraverk: Or do I have to use some other construct for that?
2016-01-14T02:44:45Z Bike: you can do (loop for var = [form] while var ...)
2016-01-14T02:45:12Z myrkraverk: Oh, right.
2016-01-14T02:48:12Z keix quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:49:53Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:51:12Z badkins_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:51:35Z pjb` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:51:37Z DGASAU` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:52:43Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:52:53Z mood quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:52:55Z eli quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:52:55Z pjb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T02:52:55Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T02:52:55Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:52:55Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:52:55Z ck_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:52:55Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:52:56Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T02:52:58Z AeroNotix quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:52:58Z djh quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:52:58Z mnoonan quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:52:58Z ck_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:53:03Z warweasle quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ))
2016-01-14T02:53:07Z djh joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:53:15Z jchmrt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T02:53:22Z mnoonan joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:53:30Z mood joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:53:33Z AeroNotix joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:54:08Z jchmrt joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:54:25Z tristero joined #lisp
2016-01-14T02:55:51Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-14T03:03:37Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-14T03:06:26Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T03:15:54Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T03:21:36Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-14T03:22:11Z netytan quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T03:31:14Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T03:38:32Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-14T03:40:34Z lisse quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-14T03:41:20Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T03:48:36Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-14T03:52:36Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Bugfixes and improvements)
2016-01-14T03:53:16Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:00:24Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Quick fix)
2016-01-14T04:00:59Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:08:43Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:09:28Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T04:09:57Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:15:01Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-14T04:22:14Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T04:24:34Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T04:28:51Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: last time, i promise)
2016-01-14T04:29:30Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:29:36Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-14T04:30:32Z setheus quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T04:32:11Z setheus joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:32:39Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:32:40Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:35:14Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T04:35:26Z karswell` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:35:29Z emaczen joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:36:04Z emaczen: Can systems be recursively found in directories?
2016-01-14T04:36:18Z emaczen: At least by default, this doesn't seem to be the case
2016-01-14T04:37:14Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-14T04:37:50Z emaczen: Or is it pretty customary to put all systems in one directory?
2016-01-14T04:38:35Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:38:47Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:39:25Z kp666 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-14T04:39:55Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:42:40Z kp666 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-14T04:43:10Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:45:05Z kp666 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-14T04:45:31Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:46:03Z jasom: emaczen: IIRC asdf searches one directory deep
2016-01-14T04:46:37Z Bike: can't you deepen it with :tree and stuff?
2016-01-14T04:47:27Z kp666 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-14T04:47:36Z jasom: I think it will also handle systems named e.g. "foo/bar" but not sure
2016-01-14T04:47:54Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:48:23Z jasom: Bike: ah, you are right the docs say that :tree will recurse
2016-01-14T04:49:38Z kp666 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-14T04:50:08Z kp666 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:51:57Z jasom: emaczen: see the 3 line example config at the bottom of https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Configuration-DSL.html#Configuration-DSL
2016-01-14T04:52:00Z kp666 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-14T04:52:20Z jasom: that will tell asdf to recursively search /home/joeluser/cl for systems
2016-01-14T04:52:53Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-14T04:53:41Z jsgrant: AeroNotix: Ping.
2016-01-14T04:53:50Z keix quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-14T04:54:40Z emaczen: jasom: will it start in a directory, go back to the "base-directory" and then search recursively?
2016-01-14T04:56:27Z Bike: it will search whatever folder you write in and all its subdirectories
2016-01-14T04:59:34Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-14T05:00:30Z emaczen: Bike: Okay, then I will have to move some directories into one "base directory"
2016-01-14T05:00:32Z emaczen: Thanks BIke
2016-01-14T05:00:49Z Bike: you can specify multiple trees and folders and stuff
2016-01-14T05:01:16Z emaczen: Bike: I'll keep that in mind, I'm having enough trouble as it is with symbols and packages...
2016-01-14T05:09:45Z badkins_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T05:21:54Z Quadrescence quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T05:23:41Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-14T05:25:27Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-14T05:26:03Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2016-01-14T05:26:24Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-14T05:27:25Z TheDevilHimself joined #lisp
2016-01-14T05:27:30Z TheDevilHimself left #lisp
2016-01-14T05:31:20Z jsgrant: AeroNotix: I'll try to reach you again later/tomorrow.
2016-01-14T05:31:25Z jsgrant: Heading to bed for now. o/
2016-01-14T05:31:51Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T05:32:06Z Quadrescence quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T05:33:21Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-14T05:33:58Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2016-01-14T05:35:51Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-14T05:37:47Z bolichep quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T05:37:48Z asc232 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T05:38:08Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-14T05:40:59Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-14T05:43:24Z bolichep quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T05:48:44Z haasn` is now known as haasn
2016-01-14T05:49:16Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-14T05:56:32Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-14T05:56:39Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-14T06:02:24Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T06:03:52Z beach: I am thinking of submitting Acclimation for inclusion in Quicklisp: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Acclimation but I need for it to install on a second system.  But I don't have a second system, only SBCL on GNU/Linux.  Can someone with a different system check that it installs, please?
2016-01-14T06:04:14Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T06:05:57Z Bike: loads on linux ccl. anything i can do to see that it works?
2016-01-14T06:06:09Z nyef: Hello beach.
2016-01-14T06:06:21Z beach: Bike: Nah, it should be straightforward.
2016-01-14T06:06:44Z beach: Bike: The main problem would be non-ascii characters in the Vietnamese language file.
2016-01-14T06:06:47Z H4ns: "it loads, so it runs"
2016-01-14T06:06:50Z beach: Bike Thanks.
2016-01-14T06:07:28Z Zhivago: Just write it in viscii. :)
2016-01-14T06:08:06Z H4ns: beach: loads fine on osx/sbcl
2016-01-14T06:08:35Z beach: Great, thanks!
2016-01-14T06:09:33Z H4ns: beach: also loads with osx/ccl
2016-01-14T06:10:01Z beach: I think that does it then.  All the requirements for Quicklisp are fulfilled.
2016-01-14T06:10:47Z Bike: you might want to put a mention in the faq/readme of needing an appropriate locale to load the files, because people (including me) tend to get confused about that sort of thing
2016-01-14T06:11:14Z beach: Good point.  Thanks.
2016-01-14T06:12:45Z moei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T06:13:21Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-14T06:20:10Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-14T06:20:29Z gabot joined #lisp
2016-01-14T06:21:01Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-14T06:24:36Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-14T06:33:54Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-14T06:34:07Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-14T06:39:12Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-14T06:40:02Z beach: As I work on the CLX backend for McCLIM, I have suggested improvements to the CLX documentation.  Looking at the source for CLX the documentation seems to be in Texinfo format.  Where should I submit suggested improvements?  Does CLX have a maintainer?
2016-01-14T06:43:10Z jackdaniel: beach: please send it also as ecl issue – we maintain in-tree separate fork (afaik it's something with recursive/non-recursive locks). I don't know if there are any active maintainers right now
2016-01-14T06:43:42Z eli joined #lisp
2016-01-14T06:43:56Z beach: jackdaniel: I'll try to remember that.
2016-01-14T06:44:09Z jackdaniel: thanks
2016-01-14T06:44:54Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-14T06:46:31Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T06:46:56Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-14T06:49:32Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-14T06:50:58Z nyef: Didn't some group (lisp-gardeners or something like that?) take maintenance of CLX?
2016-01-14T06:51:30Z nyef: I know I had maintainership briefly because of the GLX stuff I was doing, but that was a while ago.
2016-01-14T06:52:07Z beach: I'll investigate a bit more.  If anyone finds something out, please let me know.
2016-01-14T06:54:10Z beach: nyef: Would you be willing to be the maintainer, in case it turns out that nobody maintains it currently?
2016-01-14T06:56:29Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T06:56:56Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T06:57:08Z nyef: Not at this time, no.
2016-01-14T06:57:34Z beach: OK, just thought I would ask.
2016-01-14T06:58:15Z nyef: I'm not taking on any new avoidable responsibilities at this time. (-:
2016-01-14T06:58:45Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T06:58:50Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T06:59:35Z jackdaniel: beach: judging from the git address it's sharplispers and afair Xach is part of them
2016-01-14T07:00:05Z beach: jackdaniel: Thanks!  I'll just ask Xach what the story is, then.
2016-01-14T07:00:16Z jackdaniel: https://github.com/sharplispers/clx (he even did the last commit)
2016-01-14T07:00:29Z jackdaniel: and some more back :D
2016-01-14T07:00:42Z beach: Excellent!
2016-01-14T07:00:44Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T07:02:03Z beach: Then I'll just submit a pull request to see what happens. :)
2016-01-14T07:02:24Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-14T07:03:01Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-14T07:04:07Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T07:04:07Z beach: Time to get to work!
2016-01-14T07:04:10Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-14T07:04:30Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-14T07:05:18Z jackdaniel still reads the press, like each morning
2016-01-14T07:08:12Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-14T07:09:46Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T07:13:03Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T07:20:35Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T07:25:50Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T07:28:23Z PuercoPop: Testing CL using Travis may get easier https://github.com/lisp-travis/travis-build/pull/2
2016-01-14T07:29:07Z jackdaniel: is there any tutorial/blogpost describing how to use travis for CL?
2016-01-14T07:29:57Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-14T07:30:12Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-14T07:30:12Z jackdaniel: answering myself: http://eudoxia.me/article/lisp-travis-coveralls/ :p
2016-01-14T07:32:50Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T07:34:28Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T07:37:57Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-14T07:38:32Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T07:40:08Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-14T07:42:25Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-14T07:55:25Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-14T07:59:19Z bolichep quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T08:00:42Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:01:47Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:04:43Z cadadar quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T08:04:48Z cadadar1 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:13:22Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:14:03Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:14:15Z flip214: when using sb-ext:run-program with :stdout :stream, I believe it's using the wrong filehandle - the child process gets SIGPIPE when writing. See http://paste.lisp.org/display/305129 for a strace excerpt.
2016-01-14T08:14:28Z flip214: that's with 1.3.1... Am I doing something wrong?
2016-01-14T08:16:45Z flip214: hmm, with :error *standard-output* I can see sbcl do the open("/dev/null") for STDIN, and then 3 pipe()s... strange.
2016-01-14T08:18:24Z harish quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T08:18:29Z prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:18:41Z zacharias_ is now known as zacharias
2016-01-14T08:19:26Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:19:59Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T08:20:06Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:23:07Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:24:19Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:24:21Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:26:20Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:27:05Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T08:28:32Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T08:28:56Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:30:32Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T08:32:06Z igam joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:33:24Z prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-14T08:34:05Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T08:34:06Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:35:25Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:42:32Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T08:47:13Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:47:40Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:48:53Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T08:56:30Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T08:57:17Z Prion_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T08:57:32Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:00:23Z Prion_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T09:00:40Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:00:40Z Prion_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T09:02:22Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:02:33Z Prion_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T09:02:55Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:03:00Z Prion_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T09:03:37Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:04:24Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T09:04:45Z Prion_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T09:05:07Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:05:45Z tessier_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T09:05:59Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:05:59Z tessier quit (Changing host)
2016-01-14T09:05:59Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:06:03Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T09:06:36Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:07:50Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:08:35Z Prion_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T09:09:06Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:09:29Z ryan_vw_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T09:14:19Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:15:04Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T09:16:33Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:16:56Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-14T09:18:47Z sigjuice quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T09:19:30Z PuercoPop quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T09:20:00Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:20:57Z sigjuice joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:21:05Z zacts quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T09:21:12Z zacts joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:21:36Z zacts is now known as Guest69790
2016-01-14T09:23:35Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T09:23:59Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:34:01Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T09:34:25Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:36:23Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:43:25Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-14T09:44:11Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:44:36Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:52:07Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-14T09:56:11Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-14T09:57:33Z cadadar1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-14T10:04:22Z flambard_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:05:40Z rjmacready joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:07:56Z flambard quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T10:13:10Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-14T10:14:42Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:18:22Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:21:02Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T10:21:27Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:25:10Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-14T10:25:49Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:28:25Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:31:02Z rjmacready left #lisp
2016-01-14T10:32:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T10:33:11Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-14T10:34:35Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:35:05Z AeroNotix: is there a bot which will message someone when they come online?
2016-01-14T10:35:30Z flip214: minion: tell AeroNotix about minion
2016-01-14T10:35:30Z minion: minion: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/minion
2016-01-14T10:35:42Z flip214: minion: memo for AeroNotix: yes.
2016-01-14T10:35:42Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell AeroNotix when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-14T10:36:09Z contrapunctus: hey, AeroNotix !
2016-01-14T10:36:28Z AeroNotix: contrapunctus: hi there
2016-01-14T10:36:28Z minion: AeroNotix, memo from flip214: yes.
2016-01-14T10:36:44Z AeroNotix: minion: memo for jsgrant. Email me. Best way to ensure I read your messages
2016-01-14T10:36:44Z minion: watch out, you'll make krystof angry
2016-01-14T10:36:59Z AeroNotix: flip214: does that mean it got my message or what? :)
2016-01-14T10:37:06Z AeroNotix: contrapunctus: anything I can do for you?
2016-01-14T10:37:12Z jackdaniel: AeroNotix: no, you need ":" instead of "."
2016-01-14T10:37:17Z AeroNotix: jackdaniel: derp
2016-01-14T10:37:48Z contrapunctus: AeroNotix: what happened to LispKit?
2016-01-14T10:37:54Z jackdaniel: syntax:   memo for <person>: memo-content
2016-01-14T10:38:39Z AeroNotix: minion: memo for jsgrant: Email me. Best way to ensure I read your messages
2016-01-14T10:38:39Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell jsgrant when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-14T10:38:44Z pocket joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:38:58Z AeroNotix: contrapunctus: my life/work got a bit ridiculous and I needed to put effort into other things. I'll get back to it eventually.
2016-01-14T10:39:28Z AeroNotix: contrapunctus: I'll still help with PRs if people send them. I think the idea of LispKit is still a very valid and worthwhile project. I just don't have enough time to dedicate to making it perfect like I would want.
2016-01-14T10:40:30Z contrapunctus: AeroNotix: I understand. I hope to be good enough with CL by then, to be able to contribute.
2016-01-14T10:41:03Z AeroNotix: contrapunctus: don't let your experience hold you back, I don't mind helping people learn CL through a proper project
2016-01-14T10:41:18Z AeroNotix: I'm not an expert like some people in here, but I'm proficient
2016-01-14T10:42:30Z contrapunctus: cool, thanks
2016-01-14T10:42:58Z emlow joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:43:23Z pocket quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T10:43:25Z contrapunctus: currently doing a small CL practice project (privately)...just arrived from Scheme land.
2016-01-14T10:43:51Z flip214: does "sb-ext:run-program :output :stream" work for anybody with sbcl 1.3.1? strace shows sbcl reading from the pipe, but the child gets SIGPIPE.
2016-01-14T10:45:27Z AeroNotix: contrapunctus: cool, glhf
2016-01-14T10:45:42Z AeroNotix: flip214: example program?
2016-01-14T10:53:11Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:54:04Z DGASAU` is now known as DGASAU
2016-01-14T10:55:53Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T10:56:15Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:56:51Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-14T10:57:12Z scymtym_: flip214: seems to work here with 1.3.1: sb-ext::(read-line (process-output (sb-ext:run-program "echo" '("foo") :search t :output :stream))) => "foo"
2016-01-14T10:57:45Z scymtym_ could have saved another sb-ext: there
2016-01-14T11:04:57Z flambard__ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:05:40Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T11:06:06Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T11:07:29Z Prion_: I have a dream, a dream when I could find a space cadet like keyboard to type lisp
2016-01-14T11:07:55Z flambard_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T11:08:19Z contrapunctus: Prion_: Same. There are instructions for making one's own keyboards, though. Maybe one could make one.
2016-01-14T11:08:37Z contrapunctus: (assuming there aren't specific instructions for a Space Cadet already)
2016-01-14T11:08:56Z contrapunctus: (and assuming it's not already available for sale, used or otherwise.)
2016-01-14T11:09:09Z Prion_: I find some card which you can program yourself, put the switch yourself, but it's hard to do and very costly
2016-01-14T11:10:28Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T11:11:10Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:11:33Z Prion_: This: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=536
2016-01-14T11:11:35Z netytan quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T11:11:39Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:11:56Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:12:03Z Prion_: But it can't contain all the keycap of a regular space cadet
2016-01-14T11:12:18Z Prion_: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Phantom_Group_Buy
2016-01-14T11:14:16Z flip214: scymtym_: thanks a lot. can you tell me what I'm doing wrong? http://paste.lisp.org/display/305129#1
2016-01-14T11:14:30Z Prion_: this is the thread on desktop authority about recreating the space cadet, but it's old: http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/recreating-the-lisp-keyboard-t497.html
2016-01-14T11:15:07Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:16:09Z contrapunctus: Prion_: TBVH the layout of the Space Cadet freaks me out. The modifiers seem extremely far away from the optimal position and the space is needlessly gigantic. The thing looks very cool, but I'd rather get an Atreus or ErgoDox to type.
2016-01-14T11:16:33Z H4ns: i have a symbolics keyboard but it is a pain to use
2016-01-14T11:16:46Z Prion_: You break my dreams :(
2016-01-14T11:16:50Z H4ns: the most annoying thing is the rubout key, which is small and sits between random other keys.
2016-01-14T11:17:17Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:17:27Z H4ns: it is totally cool, but i can't understand all the praise it gets.  i think if you use it for too long, you can get yourself crippled enough to think you enjoy it :D
2016-01-14T11:17:28Z contrapunctus: maybe I'll make my Atreus/ErgoDox with a Space Cadet color scheme >_>
2016-01-14T11:18:14Z Prion_: You really can type with these keyboard/
2016-01-14T11:18:15Z Prion_: ?
2016-01-14T11:18:33Z Prion_: It looks so weird
2016-01-14T11:20:02Z contrapunctus: Prion_: note that your fingers do not move laterally, you have thumb keys, all keys are accessible without moving from basic typing position.
2016-01-14T11:20:27Z Prion_: Maybe a japaneze type keyboard, with a very little space bar would work
2016-01-14T11:20:46Z Prion_: and all the modifier key moved under the thumb
2016-01-14T11:21:30Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T11:21:33Z contrapunctus: and contrary to the design expectations of almost all keyboards, the hands don't approach the keyboard in a parallel position, but rather diagonally.
2016-01-14T11:21:46Z contrapunctus: both Atreus and ErgoDox take that into account.
2016-01-14T11:22:25Z Prion_: What do you think of a keyboard like that: http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/recreating-the-lisp-keyboard-t497.html?
2016-01-14T11:22:33Z Prion_: (sorry wrong link)
2016-01-14T11:22:47Z Prion_: the good one: http://xahlee.info/kbd/i/filco_majestouch_minila_keyboard_89676.jpg
2016-01-14T11:23:16Z Prion_: OMG wrong link again
2016-01-14T11:23:35Z contrapunctus: Prion_: the deskthority link has a saner-looking layout btw (saner compared to the original Space Cadet, that is)
2016-01-14T11:23:39Z Prion_: This kind of layout: http://www.amazon.com/Majestouch-Tactile-Keyboard-FFKB67M-EB/dp/B00BEVVFD0
2016-01-14T11:24:10Z Prion_: WIth a little space bart
2016-01-14T11:24:18Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:24:40Z contrapunctus: Prion_: Please note the indents on your F and J keys. Your index fingers are supposed to be there. Now after placing them there...is the Meta key readily accessible to the thumb from this position?
2016-01-14T11:25:15Z H4ns: this talk http://adereth.github.io/blog/2015/11/19/clojure-slash-conj-talk-on-3d-printing-keyboards/ is fun and related to keyboards
2016-01-14T11:25:55Z Prion_: contrapunctus: No, I need to move my hand from I keycap, making me type from d and not from f...
2016-01-14T11:26:33Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:26:46Z Prion_: That's why I was thinking about this type of keyboard: http://www.amazon.com/PFU-Keyboard-Professional-Capacitance-non-contact/dp/B001KWJTD6/ref=sr_1_sc_1/189-3661292-6056656?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1452770697&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=Happy+Hacking+Keyboard+Professional+japaneze
2016-01-14T11:26:50Z contrapunctus: Prion_: (That's how I think about a prospective keyboard. But note that I'm hardly an authority on this stuff...this is just my own unresearched opinion.)
2016-01-14T11:26:51Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:26:59Z contrapunctus: H4ns: thanks!
2016-01-14T11:27:07Z Prion_: I'm way under authority :)
2016-01-14T11:27:53Z Zhivago: The cheapest keyboard is learning how to type.
2016-01-14T11:28:13Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T11:28:27Z moore33: Yes! Touch typing is an extremely valuable skill.
2016-01-14T11:28:42Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:28:42Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-14T11:28:42Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:28:47Z Zhivago: The rest is a bit like buying those mercury filled cables for your digital sound experience.
2016-01-14T11:29:24Z contrapunctus touch types.
2016-01-14T11:29:30Z Prion_: The problem with my typing is that I type with my left hand staggered from the f keycap to the d keycap because of I use my thumb to press alt...
2016-01-14T11:29:35Z flip214: I thought they were gold plated by a virgin cat during a moonlight dinner or something?
2016-01-14T11:29:41Z contrapunctus: Prion_: exactly.
2016-01-14T11:29:44Z Zhivago: I should have said 'learning to type properly'.
2016-01-14T11:30:06Z Prion_: So maybe a keyboard with little space bar should work way better
2016-01-14T11:30:44Z splittist wishes he could think faster than he can type
2016-01-14T11:30:45Z contrapunctus: Zhivago: surely any touch typist would recognize how unergonomically most keyboards are designed?
2016-01-14T11:31:13Z Zhivago: It turns out that most ergonomic arguments are almost complete bullshit.
2016-01-14T11:31:39Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:31:47Z AeroNotix: "...and here is the evidence I put forth" -- Zhivago, presumably.
2016-01-14T11:31:50Z Zhivago: Extremely so in the case of qwerty vs. dvorak vs. magical keyboard.
2016-01-14T11:31:52Z attila_lendvai: get a keyboard with an ergonomically organized layout, not one that accommodates for the hammer mechanics from a century ago... it took a week to get used to my kinesis, and it's incomparable in comfort and accuracy
2016-01-14T11:32:26Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: "back to work")
2016-01-14T11:35:08Z freehck joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:40:21Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T11:40:31Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:45:30Z scymtym_: flip214: not sure what is going wrong in your case, but afaik, SBCL uses SIGPIPE for inter-thread communication, so that may not actually be indicative of a problem
2016-01-14T11:47:39Z flip214: scymtym_: the SIGPIPE is for the git process, and it gets that upon writing to STDOUT.
2016-01-14T11:47:46Z flip214: but thanks for taking a look.
2016-01-14T11:48:15Z flip214: does the snippet work for you? if it is, then my environment has to be damaged somehow ... although I couldn't guess in which way ;/
2016-01-14T11:49:45Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:55:59Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T11:57:33Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T11:59:43Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-14T12:00:19Z scymtym_: flip214: READ-SEQUENCE reads 0 bytes because LENGTH of BUFFER is 0, changing BUFFER to have non-zero length or using READ-LINE works as expected.
2016-01-14T12:00:26Z vap1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T12:00:50Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:01:50Z flambard__ is now known as flambard
2016-01-14T12:03:35Z flip214: scymtym_: ah, thank you so much!
2016-01-14T12:08:38Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: me -> moon, brb)
2016-01-14T12:09:29Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:10:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T12:12:12Z igam quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T12:14:27Z NeverDie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T12:14:38Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:14:44Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T12:15:14Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T12:15:34Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:18:47Z jackdaniel: can I iterate over structure slots?
2016-01-14T12:21:44Z H4ns: jackdaniel: there is no runtime inspection for structs, if that is what you want.
2016-01-14T12:21:56Z H4ns: jackdaniel: one of the many reasons to prefer classes over structs.
2016-01-14T12:22:30Z moore33: A level of indirection solves everything.
2016-01-14T12:23:05Z H4ns: right.  of course.  just reimplement clos badly and you're all set :D
2016-01-14T12:23:36Z moore33: H4ns: No, I meant the level of indirection in CLOS objects.
2016-01-14T12:23:39Z jackdaniel: hrm, so there is no way to get underlying structure (list/vector) portably from the struct? thanks
2016-01-14T12:25:42Z H4ns: moore33: ah, sorry.
2016-01-14T12:26:59Z phadthai: not portably I think...  I remember using a defstruct wrapper, or a hack using the printer to discover the slots (the latter not really portable either)
2016-01-14T12:27:47Z phadthai: I'm not sure if the mop of some implementations can also can provide struct slots
2016-01-14T12:29:16Z phadthai: i.e. using clos:slot-definition-name and clos:class-slots
2016-01-14T12:31:00Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:31:38Z jackdaniel: right, these mop functions work with structs here :) but I'll probably won't rely on this, it's one place and may  be coded manually I suppose
2016-01-14T12:31:41Z jackdaniel: thanks
2016-01-14T12:32:05Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T12:32:33Z mbuf quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.2)
2016-01-14T12:33:19Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:34:27Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:36:33Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:36:57Z wmtb joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:38:25Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T12:38:36Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T12:40:45Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:43:32Z wmtb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-14T12:47:51Z pocket joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:49:21Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:54:13Z igam` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:54:27Z igam` is now known as igam
2016-01-14T12:54:54Z igam: Prion_: you could build your own SpaceCadet keyboard.  cf. google and youtube.  In the mean time, a DasKeyboard ultima with your own .xmodmap is a good
2016-01-14T12:54:58Z igam: start.
2016-01-14T12:55:03Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T12:58:36Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T12:59:03Z papachan quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-14T12:59:46Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:03:08Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-14T13:06:09Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:08:15Z Munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T13:08:27Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:08:50Z pocket quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-14T13:09:39Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-14T13:09:49Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:15:24Z Prion_: igam: Thanks you!
2016-01-14T13:16:01Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-14T13:17:08Z Munksgaard1 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:17:42Z Munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T13:23:22Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:29:31Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:31:03Z phadthai: toolkits like qt and gtk are now starting to handle their own maps, so xmodmap and xkb might no longer be enough depending... they still work for me in urxvt though
2016-01-14T13:31:50Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:33:45Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T13:34:20Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-14T13:34:48Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:38:49Z antoszka: Guys, do you know if somebody has recreated the original Lisp Lizard logo in some vector format? Last I checked (a few years ago) the vector original was lost, and only bitmap versions were floating around.
2016-01-14T13:39:03Z antoszka: If not – is the alien available as vectors?
2016-01-14T13:40:25Z jackdaniel: http://www.lisperati.com/lisplogo.svg – alien
2016-01-14T13:40:43Z jackdaniel: http://www.lisperati.com/logo.html (other svg logos)
2016-01-14T13:41:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T13:42:57Z antoszka: tia, zaglądałem tam
2016-01-14T13:43:02Z antoszka: trochę te SVG są zjebane
2016-01-14T13:43:17Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:43:20Z antoszka: musiałbym je otworzyć w illustratorze i zobaczyć, czy będzie lepiej.
2016-01-14T13:43:26Z antoszka: bo przeglądarka renderuje je z błędami.
2016-01-14T13:44:46Z jackdaniel: nie ten kanał ;-)
2016-01-14T13:45:36Z antoszka: Lol, sorry guys.
2016-01-14T13:49:41Z yuankode quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T13:50:31Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:50:46Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:53:36Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:53:45Z moore33: Polish?
2016-01-14T13:54:01Z jackdaniel: moore33: yeap
2016-01-14T13:54:32Z moore33: All set for ELS.
2016-01-14T13:54:34Z jackdaniel: if anyone is interested, here's lizard svg, I plan to vectorize it with colors on weekend http://hellsgate.pl/public/drawing.svg
2016-01-14T13:55:24Z xantoz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T13:55:50Z xantoz joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:56:33Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:58:02Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T13:59:12Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-14T13:59:33Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-14T13:59:59Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T14:00:49Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:02:27Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:02:32Z mingus joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:02:45Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:02:52Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:02:54Z nowhereman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T14:03:19Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:03:24Z mingus quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-14T14:04:07Z gabriel_laddel: How would I go about compiling a single ASDF system? (asdf:perform 'asdf:compile-op (find-system "system")) compiles all of the dependencies...
2016-01-14T14:04:09Z je4i quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T14:06:56Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:07:11Z Xach_: gabriel_laddel: only the first time, though, right?
2016-01-14T14:07:27Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:07:28Z gabriel_laddel: Xach_: nope?
2016-01-14T14:07:46Z Xach_: Hmm, don't know.
2016-01-14T14:08:03Z gabriel_laddel: I recompiled flexi-trivial-dired (clim dired) and recompiled McCLIM, breaking the CLIM current session.
2016-01-14T14:08:25Z gabriel_laddel: I guess I can just disallow anyone from reloading systems that depend on McCLIM
2016-01-14T14:08:27Z gabriel_laddel: ...
2016-01-14T14:09:57Z igam: moore33: right a precondition for registration to the European Lisp Symposium, would be to have learned the language of the hosting country during the previous year  :-)
2016-01-14T14:10:18Z moore33: igam: That would be interesting!
2016-01-14T14:11:07Z igam: That's why we should have switched to Polish in #lisp since it was announced, to get some linguistic bath :-)
2016-01-14T14:11:32Z jackdaniel: spoko, nie ma sprawy :)
2016-01-14T14:12:39Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T14:13:16Z moore33: My hovercraft is full of eels.
2016-01-14T14:16:46Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T14:18:32Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:19:20Z splittist: ITYM Mój poduszkowiec jest pełen węgorzy.
2016-01-14T14:20:09Z splittist: I hope they fill out the 'How to get there' and 'Where to stay' parts of the site.
2016-01-14T14:20:17Z jackdaniel: splittist: "And this my jet is full of fish"?
2016-01-14T14:20:17Z splittist: (the els site, that is)
2016-01-14T14:20:21Z jackdaniel: x]
2016-01-14T14:20:38Z splittist: I need to do more work. How should I say 'hovercraft' and 'eels'?
2016-01-14T14:21:10Z jackdaniel: ok, I mistranslated, poduszkowiec is hovercraft
2016-01-14T14:21:24Z jackdaniel: and eels are wegorze :)
2016-01-14T14:21:43Z jackdaniel: so "And this my hovercraft is full of eels"
2016-01-14T14:22:06Z splittist: close enough for government work
2016-01-14T14:24:31Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:24:40Z blt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-14T14:25:29Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:26:26Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:27:15Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-14T14:34:20Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-14T14:38:44Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:39:32Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:43:40Z s00pcan quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-14T14:44:25Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:46:11Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T14:50:49Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:50:49Z je4i` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T14:51:17Z je4i quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-14T14:52:04Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:53:05Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-14T14:54:35Z balle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T14:55:26Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:58:00Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:59:17Z kdas_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T14:59:37Z kdas_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T15:00:02Z kdas_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:00:40Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:02:00Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:02:46Z kdas_ is now known as kushal
2016-01-14T15:02:48Z kushal quit (Changing host)
2016-01-14T15:02:49Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:11:42Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:11:43Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-14T15:11:43Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:14:31Z je4i`` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:16:40Z je4i`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T15:16:42Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:17:00Z pseudo_s1e joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:17:08Z pseudo_s1e is now known as pseudo-su
2016-01-14T15:17:11Z pseudo-su is now known as pseudo-sue
2016-01-14T15:17:41Z je4i` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T15:17:49Z pseudo-sue: hey folks. I've got a pretty trivial format string question, but can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for online.
2016-01-14T15:18:11Z moore33: shoot
2016-01-14T15:18:49Z pseudo-sue: how do I left-pad an integer with zeros, in a nonconventional base? suppose, for example, I want to zero-pad a ternary integer. it seems like I'd use "~9,'03r" (for 9 digit ternary integer)
2016-01-14T15:19:01Z pseudo-sue: but that will throw an error.
2016-01-14T15:19:57Z pseudo-sue: "Argument X is not a REAL: #\0"
2016-01-14T15:20:24Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:20:36Z H4ns: pseudo-sue: (format t "~3,9,'0R" 123456) -> "20021100110"?
2016-01-14T15:20:59Z pseudo-sue: sweet! thanks.
2016-01-14T15:21:19Z Diana_Diosa_de_l joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:21:23Z pseudo-sue: I was just mentally parsing things wrong, it seems.
2016-01-14T15:22:01Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: la la la la la la la la la la lala
2016-01-14T15:22:08Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: Solo tengo recuerdos de un pasado feliz
2016-01-14T15:22:16Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: Solo tengo añoranzas en mi mente de ti
2016-01-14T15:22:18Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: Vuelve aquí
2016-01-14T15:22:22Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: la la la la la la la
2016-01-14T15:22:30Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: he vivido unos años, algo duros sin ti
2016-01-14T15:22:37Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: Ahora quiero olvidarlos y volver a reír
2016-01-14T15:22:41Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: la la la la la la la la
2016-01-14T15:22:44Z H4ns: does someone want to help the person out?
2016-01-14T15:22:46Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: en mi vida solo quedan esperanzas
2016-01-14T15:22:54Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: en mis sueños mi ilusion siempre eres tú.
2016-01-14T15:23:01Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: Sólo vivo esperando tu regreso
2016-01-14T15:23:10Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: con tu marcha te llevaste mi corazón
2016-01-14T15:23:17Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: ¿where are you from?
2016-01-14T15:23:20Z z0d: need more ops
2016-01-14T15:23:24Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: Han pasado unos años
2016-01-14T15:23:28Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: y por fin te encontré
2016-01-14T15:23:31Z pseudo-sue: now, a slightly tricker question: anyone know of an existing function, or package, for converting to n-ary gray codes? (ternary's what I'm after in this case, in particular, but n-ary would be great to have handy in general)
2016-01-14T15:23:32Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: la sonrisa en mis labios
2016-01-14T15:23:37Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: salió a flor de piel
2016-01-14T15:23:43Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: soy feliz
2016-01-14T15:23:58Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: me he enterado en el parqué que te has casado con él.
2016-01-14T15:24:08Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: Pero quiero decirte que pasó9 tu tiempo pasío
2016-01-14T15:24:14Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: pasó tu tiempo ya pasó tu hora
2016-01-14T15:24:18Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: ya pasó tu hora
2016-01-14T15:24:21Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:24:21Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: ya pasó tu hora
2016-01-14T15:24:30Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: yo con mi marillo siempre siempre siempre
2016-01-14T15:24:38Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: siempre siempre siempre siempre
2016-01-14T15:24:49Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: porque eél era él era él era él y solo él
2016-01-14T15:25:28Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: Quisiera dedicarte todo el tiempo que me queda en esta vida.
2016-01-14T15:25:33Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: olvidame tú olvidame tú
2016-01-14T15:25:37Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: yo solo soy una bebita
2016-01-14T15:25:45Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: una bebita con el mundo en mis manitas
2016-01-14T15:25:53Z oleo: ?
2016-01-14T15:25:53Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: bomba bomba bomba bom,bita
2016-01-14T15:25:57Z oleo: lol
2016-01-14T15:25:59Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: bombsabomba bombita
2016-01-14T15:26:02Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: hola hola
2016-01-14T15:26:07Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: que tal estás amiguito??
2016-01-14T15:26:18Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: ¿seremos amigos siempre siempre siempre?
2016-01-14T15:26:24Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: Nunca te dejaré hermanito
2016-01-14T15:26:30Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: siempre siempre siempre estaremos unidos
2016-01-14T15:26:35Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: Hacemo snuestro pacto de sangre
2016-01-14T15:26:38Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: dame tu dedo
2016-01-14T15:26:41Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: dame tu dedo
2016-01-14T15:26:43Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: dame tu dedo
2016-01-14T15:26:48Z Diana_Diosa_de_l: toma toma toma toma el mío
2016-01-14T15:26:51Z fe[nl]ix has set mode +b *!~ircap@*.ono.com
2016-01-14T15:26:51Z Diana_Diosa_de_l [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has been kicked from #lisp by fe[nl]ix (Diana_Diosa_de_l)
2016-01-14T15:27:07Z oleo: gracias!
2016-01-14T15:27:10Z oleo: hahahahha
2016-01-14T15:27:18Z moore33: hasta la vista
2016-01-14T15:28:27Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-14T15:31:27Z urdro joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:36:34Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T15:38:06Z Munksgaard1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T15:43:26Z lisse quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-14T15:44:09Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:46:55Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-14T15:48:26Z je4i`` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:51:58Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-14T15:54:52Z lisse quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-14T15:56:15Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:03:36Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:03:41Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:04:30Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:04:30Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-14T16:05:56Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:06:15Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-14T16:08:05Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:08:16Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:08:38Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:09:27Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-14T16:10:47Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T16:12:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:13:51Z josteink quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:15:14Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:15:38Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:15:53Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:16:48Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:17:41Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:17:50Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:19:21Z flip214: there
2016-01-14T16:19:42Z flip214: there's no (format) or (with-output-to-string :start) or something like that, right?
2016-01-14T16:20:00Z flip214: what's the easiest way to replace part of an existing string, reusing the allocated space?
2016-01-14T16:22:22Z urdro quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-14T16:22:38Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:22:46Z dlowe: flip214: REPLACE
2016-01-14T16:22:54Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:23:37Z splittist: flip: if it's a 'string' with a fill-pointer, you /can/ use format
2016-01-14T16:25:10Z flip214: dlowe: thanks!
2016-01-14T16:25:41Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-14T16:29:14Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:31:37Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:33:36Z ghard joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:35:03Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:41:21Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-14T16:42:18Z katco quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:43:49Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T16:44:09Z cic_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:44:12Z katco joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:45:27Z warweasle quit (Quit: Hungry)
2016-01-14T16:46:17Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:47:28Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:47:55Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T16:50:03Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T16:50:03Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T16:50:07Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T16:52:17Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:52:18Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:53:02Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-14T16:53:34Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:53:47Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:53:55Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-14T16:54:25Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T16:54:25Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T16:54:32Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:54:44Z wheelsucker: Good morning.
2016-01-14T16:54:49Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:55:14Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:58:08Z oleo: evening
2016-01-14T16:58:30Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:58:39Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:58:50Z je4i`` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:58:55Z ghard quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T16:59:08Z splittist: Hello beach!
2016-01-14T16:59:33Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-14T16:59:35Z rtoym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T16:59:40Z splittist: beach: what were you thinking of for undo functionality in 2ndClimacs?
2016-01-14T16:59:54Z beach: splittist: Not sure.
2016-01-14T17:00:05Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T17:00:09Z beach: splittist: I gave it some thought in the past.
2016-01-14T17:00:12Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:00:54Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:00:57Z beach: It doesn't seem worthwhile to undo insertions, I think.  And, on the other hand, it would be good to be able to insert deleted code anywhere.
2016-01-14T17:01:19Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-14T17:02:35Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:02:36Z pseudo-sue quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T17:02:38Z splittist: beach: but if I'm replacing some text, the insertion and deletion are inextricably linked. Or am I thinking at the wrong level.
2016-01-14T17:03:37Z beach: You may very well be right.  Like I said, I haven't thought it through completely.  It's a complex issue.  I know I don't want something like what GNU Emacs does.
2016-01-14T17:03:42Z beach: I am currently trying to improve the CLX backend of McCLIM.  In order to do that, I consult the CLX documentation.  As it turns out, there are lots of undocumented (but exported) symbols.  In fact there is even a section in the manual named "Undocumented".
2016-01-14T17:03:43Z beach: It would be good if people who know something about X11 and/or CLX could help improve the CLX documentation by (say) adding documentation for a symbol from time to time.  I would be particularly interested in a more complete section on the Render extension.
2016-01-14T17:04:26Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T17:05:00Z beach: I really hate it when, in order to use some Common Lisp software, I need to consult some documentation written for a different language, or in this case the X11 protocol specification.
2016-01-14T17:06:24Z beach: splittist: I am thinking like this: If I deleted some text that I shouldn't have, then I insert some text (that I want to keep), it seems backward that undo would first delete the inserted text that I want to keep before I get the deleted text back.
2016-01-14T17:08:36Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:08:54Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T17:08:55Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T17:08:55Z rpg: beach: speaking of clx, seems like there's a backlog of fixes that need applying to sharplispers clx....
2016-01-14T17:08:58Z beach: splittist: And if I inserted some text that I do NOT want to keep, I can just delete it.  It seems backward to rely on undo to delete the inserted text.
2016-01-14T17:09:12Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:09:14Z beach: rpg: Oh, for the code?
2016-01-14T17:09:23Z rpg: yes.
2016-01-14T17:09:23Z splittist: beach: understood. But if I've search-and-replaced all my 'cluffer:' to be 'clutter:' and decide that was silly, I would like to atomically undo that.
2016-01-14T17:09:41Z beach: splittist: Definitely, yes.
2016-01-14T17:09:46Z rpg: beach: I know I had to make some changes (in a pull request) to make CLX able to open a display on Mac.
2016-01-14T17:10:02Z beach: rpg: Are those fixes in the form of issues?
2016-01-14T17:10:05Z rpg: CLX + X auth seems to be a mess.
2016-01-14T17:10:09Z rpg: beach: Yes.
2016-01-14T17:10:12Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-14T17:10:13Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T17:10:28Z rpg: as in -- the framework seems to be a mess, not the implementation particularly.
2016-01-14T17:10:37Z beach: Hmm, OK.
2016-01-14T17:11:07Z splittist: beach: perhaps some kind of 'markup mode' display (strikeouts showing deleted text, underlines showing inserted text) and a way to accept or reject individual edits. Not sure how that works with an extended history of changes...
2016-01-14T17:11:25Z beach: splittist: Yes, something like that.
2016-01-14T17:12:03Z rpg: beach: mine is issue 19, and looks like 20 is pretty important, too.
2016-01-14T17:12:16Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-14T17:12:18Z beach: rpg: Are you saying it would be useful for people (like me) to help with the fixes?
2016-01-14T17:12:19Z splittist: and then an AI that takes semantically sensible backup versions (:
2016-01-14T17:12:24Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:12:37Z rpg: beach: just wondering out loud. Not sure who maintains CLX.
2016-01-14T17:12:50Z rpg: hoping you might have some pull....
2016-01-14T17:13:00Z pseudo-sue joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:13:02Z rpg: to pull.
2016-01-14T17:13:21Z beach: rpg: This morning (UTC+1), jackdaniel mentioned that Xach has been committing not too long ago.
2016-01-14T17:14:19Z beach: rpg: I submitted a pull request for my improvements to the manual, and I hope to have energy to continue with more improvements.
2016-01-14T17:15:09Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:15:10Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:16:57Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:18:46Z rpg: beach: not too long ago is 1/2 year....
2016-01-14T17:18:50Z josteink joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:18:59Z beach: Not too bad. :)
2016-01-14T17:19:08Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:19:08Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T17:20:10Z rpg: not for something as stable as CLX.
2016-01-14T17:21:22Z beach: Anyway, I (or someone else) should start by asking Xach what he knows about it.
2016-01-14T17:21:42Z Xach_: Knows about what?
2016-01-14T17:21:53Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:21:58Z beach: Oh, hi Xach.  About who might be the maintainer of CLX.
2016-01-14T17:22:09Z Xach_: It is collectively unmaintained by the folks of sharplispers
2016-01-14T17:22:18Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:22:21Z Xach_: Anyone there can merge pull requests or otherwise commit
2016-01-14T17:22:41Z beach: I don't know who they are.
2016-01-14T17:22:54Z beach: But I guess I can go look on GitHub.
2016-01-14T17:22:56Z Xach_: I am one, nikodemus is another
2016-01-14T17:23:03Z Xach_: I don't remember beyond that
2016-01-14T17:23:20Z Xach_: luis, fe[nl]ix, slyrus
2016-01-14T17:23:26Z Xach_: binghe
2016-01-14T17:23:36Z beach: Ah, excellent!  Thanks.
2016-01-14T17:23:51Z Xach_: I invited you to be a sharplisper too
2016-01-14T17:24:13Z beach: Right now?  Or in the past?
2016-01-14T17:24:21Z Xach_: Moments ago
2016-01-14T17:24:29Z moore33: lol
2016-01-14T17:24:29Z beach: OK.  Great!
2016-01-14T17:25:43Z Xach_: The only membership requirement is the ability to feel creeping guilt as you assume the others will attend to bug reports and patches that slowly get older and older
2016-01-14T17:25:52Z beach: Xach:  I need to go fix dinner shortly, but I'll act upon that soon, I guess tomorrow morning (UTC+1).
2016-01-14T17:26:31Z beach: Xach: I can live with that requirement.
2016-01-14T17:26:54Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:27:11Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T17:27:23Z moore33: beach: Btw, I've been using glop, which has its own ffi to xlib. It's not quite complete enough to support McClim, IIRC.
2016-01-14T17:27:50Z pseudo-sue quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-14T17:28:03Z moore33: Actually, that comment refers to input and event processing. It probably has very little for X drawing.
2016-01-14T17:28:29Z beach: moore33: I see.
2016-01-14T17:29:02Z beach: moore33: I am trying my best to move away from FFI as much as possible, so I am not jumping with enthusiasm to convert.
2016-01-14T17:29:22Z beach: moore33: You know things about X11 and CLX, right?  How about you help out with a paragraph per week or so?
2016-01-14T17:30:07Z moore33: beach: I feel your pain with ffi, but in OpenGL land  it is hard to avoid it.
2016-01-14T17:30:13Z fikusz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-14T17:30:45Z moore33: Years ago I figured out how to use direct rendering with OpenGL and CLX together, but it is very unpleasant.
2016-01-14T17:30:48Z beach: If it can't be avoided, then that's the way it is.
2016-01-14T17:31:15Z beach: Oh, I remember that.
2016-01-14T17:31:18Z moore33: beach: A paragraph in the CLX manual?
2016-01-14T17:31:21Z beach: Yes.
2016-01-14T17:31:28Z moore33: Sure, why not :)
2016-01-14T17:31:34Z beach: That would be great!
2016-01-14T17:32:00Z moore33: I'm not exactly an X11 expert, but whatever.
2016-01-14T17:32:07Z beach: Is that where you created resources both from CLX and from Xlib and they were unaware of each other?
2016-01-14T17:32:29Z beach: ... referring to the unpleasantness.
2016-01-14T17:33:08Z beach: moore33: I am not exactly an expert either, but it's not rocket science either.
2016-01-14T17:33:12Z jasom: I made an xrender based compositor in clx as an excercise.  It was also not particularly pleasant
2016-01-14T17:33:21Z beach: Heh!
2016-01-14T17:33:57Z jasom: I didn't even try xdamage, just redrew the entire screen at 30Hz
2016-01-14T17:34:08Z beach: jasom: I can't for my life understand the Render protocol documentation.  I would love to have an understandable section for it in the CLX manual.
2016-01-14T17:34:11Z moore33: beach: I think I had to create two connections to the X server: one via CLX and one via the X C library. Then, using the XID of the window, I was able to receive events for it in CLX.
2016-01-14T17:34:37Z beach: moore33: Yeah, I remember now.
2016-01-14T17:34:47Z moore33: beach: But I've seen evidence from forum posts that this doesn't necessarily work anymore.
2016-01-14T17:34:53Z jasom: beach: yeah, I had to find a program that used xrender and then use that as a rosetta stone for the docs
2016-01-14T17:35:15Z beach: jasom: That is definitely not optimal.
2016-01-14T17:35:47Z jasom: There were a couple missing atoms in clx I needed to, IIRC
2016-01-14T17:35:52Z jasom: s/to/too
2016-01-14T17:36:12Z jasom looks for source code
2016-01-14T17:36:19Z beach: Not surprising.  But now that we can maintain CLX, it can be fixed.
2016-01-14T17:36:49Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T17:36:59Z jasom: ah, no it was for the Composite extension, not for Render
2016-01-14T17:37:10Z jasom: which clx didn't have at all
2016-01-14T17:37:17Z beach: Yes, I see.
2016-01-14T17:37:35Z beach: Two extensions doing compositing?
2016-01-14T17:37:49Z jasom: no Composite just causes windows to render to off-screen buffers
2016-01-14T17:37:59Z jasom: then you need some way to get them on-screen
2016-01-14T17:37:59Z beach: Ah, OK.
2016-01-14T17:38:11Z jasom: Render is what I used (most real-world WMs use GL I think)
2016-01-14T17:38:56Z beach: I hope what moore33 is working on will make that easier.
2016-01-14T17:39:25Z beach: Anyway, I am already running late for fixing dinner for my (admittedly small) family.  I should go.  Talk later.
2016-01-14T17:39:27Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-14T17:39:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T17:39:42Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:41:19Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T17:42:17Z Howling joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:42:22Z gabriel_laddel quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-14T17:42:23Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-14T17:42:28Z jasom: beach is gone, but for those who haven't been following it, Wayland basically completely eliminates X; they noticed that KMS was handling the video, compositing WMs were handling the drawing, evdev was handling the input, and xft/cairo were handling fonts.  If X11 isn't doing video, input, fonts, or drawing windows, then what is it used for?
2016-01-14T17:42:32Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:43:41Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T17:43:41Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T17:44:05Z dwchandler: a protocol
2016-01-14T17:46:24Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T17:47:21Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:48:17Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:49:01Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T17:49:27Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:50:55Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T17:52:25Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-14T17:53:56Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-14T17:54:32Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:56:31Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:57:36Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T17:59:54Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-14T17:59:57Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-14T17:59:57Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:00:06Z kalzz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T18:00:51Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:01:40Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T18:11:24Z luis: "Wayland is a protocol for a compositor to talk to its clients as well as a C library implementation of that protocol."
2016-01-14T18:11:27Z luis: There you go. :)
2016-01-14T18:11:33Z mordocai: Anyone here have any experience trying to use https://github.com/AlexCharlton/site-generator? I'm thinking about switching to it from a clojure site generator but don't want to waste my time if it just doesn't work or something.
2016-01-14T18:15:09Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:16:06Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T18:18:53Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:26:48Z specbot quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T18:27:40Z minion quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T18:28:09Z caffeinic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T18:32:50Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:33:30Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:34:28Z urdro joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:35:35Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T18:35:38Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:38:06Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:39:38Z urdro quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-14T18:39:39Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:39:51Z urdro joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:42:01Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:43:07Z duggiefr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:43:09Z duggiefresh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T18:43:56Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:44:26Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-14T18:44:27Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:49:14Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:50:40Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:51:31Z urdro quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-14T18:51:31Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-14T18:53:01Z warweasle: What is the proper way to conditionally remove code? Is it defconstant and #.#(cl:if (cl:boundp '*constant*) ...) ?
2016-01-14T18:53:22Z warweasle: or #.(cl:... rather
2016-01-14T18:57:47Z psy_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-14T18:57:51Z jasom: #-feature(code)
2016-01-14T18:58:03Z jasom: clhs *features*
2016-01-14T18:58:19Z jasom: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/v_featur.htm
2016-01-14T18:58:21Z warweasle: jasom: Do I add it to *features*?
2016-01-14T18:58:53Z jasom: so, e.g. #+mymodule-debug(format t "I'm debuggging")
2016-01-14T18:59:40Z warweasle: jasom: Do I (defconstant mymodule-debug '(feature1 feature2 ...))
2016-01-14T18:59:58Z vydd joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:01:02Z warweasle: jasom: My mistake (defconstant *features* ...
2016-01-14T19:01:31Z isoraqathedh: You just need to append your keywords to *features*
2016-01-14T19:01:43Z isoraqathedh: Use push.
2016-01-14T19:01:51Z warweasle: isoraqathedh: But that would make it global. Is that good practice?
2016-01-14T19:02:05Z isoraqathedh: *features* is already global.
2016-01-14T19:02:50Z warweasle: isoraqathedh: Yes, but I'm adding package dependant information to a global variable. It seems...wrong.
2016-01-14T19:03:01Z isoraqathedh: My main concern is that it seems like *features* is mainly used for smoothing over implementation things.
2016-01-14T19:03:43Z isoraqathedh: However, technically speaking not all symbols in *features* need be keywords.
2016-01-14T19:05:07Z warweasle: isoraqathedh: Thank you then. That's how I'll do it.
2016-01-14T19:05:20Z isoraqathedh: What I would do is to simply just use a config package with a variable that holds the whether-or-not-you're-in-debug-mode, and then wrap anything you want to run only in debug mode with something like (eval-when-debug …).
2016-01-14T19:05:25Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:09:08Z Guest69790 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-14T19:09:22Z josteink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T19:10:04Z ApeShot joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:10:11Z ApeShot quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-14T19:10:32Z zacts joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:10:43Z warweasle: isoraqathedh: That's a better idea.
2016-01-14T19:12:32Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:13:37Z josteink joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:14:48Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-14T19:15:05Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:15:35Z pbgc quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T19:17:26Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T19:20:47Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T19:22:44Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:28:28Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:30:50Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:34:13Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:37:36Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:37:36Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-14T19:37:36Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:43:15Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T19:44:11Z spupuser joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:44:19Z kdas_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:44:35Z spupuser quit (Changing host)
2016-01-14T19:44:35Z spupuser joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:44:42Z skali quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-14T19:46:17Z johs quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T19:46:34Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-14T19:48:48Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:49:11Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:51:22Z Denommus quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-14T19:52:59Z jasom: isoraqathedh: package names are global too
2016-01-14T19:53:05Z jasom: sorry warweasle
2016-01-14T19:55:35Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T19:55:46Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T19:56:20Z warweasle: jasom: Yes, but you can remove packages. Adding items to *features* will leave something laying around.
2016-01-14T19:58:20Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-14T19:58:33Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-14T19:59:10Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T20:01:13Z jasom: warweasle: you can remove items from *features* too
2016-01-14T20:03:18Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T20:04:23Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:04:52Z PuercoPop: mood: Nice work porting pygments!
2016-01-14T20:07:29Z eraaij joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:07:47Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:08:48Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:09:44Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-14T20:12:08Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: brb reboot and a prayer)
2016-01-14T20:12:56Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:13:39Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T20:13:43Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:15:21Z mood: PuercoPop: Thanks :D It's still in pretty early stages and, well, I haven't worked on it for a while, but I plan to continue some time soon
2016-01-14T20:15:34Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:18:30Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:19:09Z PuercoPop: yeah I saw most of the code was written in October. But the project structure also invites collaboration as it is clear how to extend for another language.
2016-01-14T20:20:46Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:21:41Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:22:07Z jasom: oh is this crylic?
2016-01-14T20:22:14Z mood: jasom: Yes
2016-01-14T20:22:26Z mood: PuercoPop: I should write a proper README soon, though
2016-01-14T20:22:36Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:23:03Z jasom: seeing rerout, I should pull my router code out of the app and publish it
2016-01-14T20:23:26Z mood: Perhaps I should've posted the link here instead of in #lispgames: https://github.com/jorams/crylic
2016-01-14T20:23:50Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:24:03Z jasom just googled "Joram Schrijver lisp"
2016-01-14T20:24:16Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:24:18Z mood: Yay for /whois
2016-01-14T20:24:50Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:25:43Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T20:26:18Z PuercoPop: I remember that a while back you created a repo for some sort of CSS dom model from the WebIDL specification as well?
2016-01-14T20:26:38Z jasom quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2016-01-14T20:26:54Z PuercoPop: *-model
2016-01-14T20:27:18Z jasom joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:27:20Z mood: PuercoPop: I started on a CSS parser, yes. https://github.com/jorams/destyle
2016-01-14T20:27:26Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:27:45Z sebboh: Bike, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireworld
2016-01-14T20:27:58Z mood: I need to learn a lot more about parsing, though.
2016-01-14T20:28:31Z Bicyclidine: what about it
2016-01-14T20:28:50Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:29:09Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:29:27Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-14T20:30:54Z sebboh: Bicyclidine: it's related to a link you provided yesterday, something called cellmatrix.  Which you provided because I was looking for a CA-like computing device.
2016-01-14T20:31:03Z PuercoPop: mood: if you want practice you could try rewriting djula's one. It is a mess. I started to a while back.
2016-01-14T20:31:24Z Bicyclidine: i remember, i just don't know how it's related beyond being a CA
2016-01-14T20:32:05Z sebboh: Bicyclidine: I guess it's much more closely related to my request than it is to cellmatrix.
2016-01-14T20:33:41Z mood: PuercoPop: I looked at it a while ago. There is certainly room for improvement in Djula, starting there. Sadly, time and motivation aren't infinite.
2016-01-14T20:34:29Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:34:40Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:36:14Z Bicyclidine: making a computer out of wire world doesn't make a whole lot of sense; its turing equivalence is based on gates, and you can just make those out of CMOS
2016-01-14T20:37:08Z mood: jasom: About rerout: I kind of want a URL router that isn't based on regexps, but I needed something simple quickly.
2016-01-14T20:37:31Z jasom: mood: mine uses optima
2016-01-14T20:37:40Z jasom: it was also a case of me wanting something quickly
2016-01-14T20:37:48Z PuercoPop: mood: yeah. One of the things I admire in Mariano is he takes time to polish and improve other peoples projects. Like djula or burgled batteries.
2016-01-14T20:38:38Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-14T20:38:42Z mood: PuercoPop: That's definitely something we need a little more of in the CL world.
2016-01-14T20:40:19Z sebboh: Bicyclidine: right.  You'd probably want to change the CA rules so that it was possible for the "copper" or "wire" cells to change ever--so you could make different circuits.  In the default Wireworld rules, that can't happen.  anyway, just thought you might find it interesting, no worries.
2016-01-14T20:41:22Z Bicyclidine: sorry for being curmudgeonly
2016-01-14T20:42:06Z larme quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:42:52Z PuercoPop: mood: for a router that is not based on regexps something like puri-templates is needed at the very least. Or one wants a more powerful router, that can dispatch on stuff like method or content-type, one has to tie itself to an specific request 'spec', like clack. What do you have in mind?
2016-01-14T20:43:07Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:43:41Z Bicyclidine: sebboh: if you haven't already, install golly and flip through the million CA rulesets it has
2016-01-14T20:44:53Z kalzz joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:44:53Z brandonz joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:45:04Z TruePika joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:45:07Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T20:45:09Z sebboh: Bicyclidine: aren't they all life variants?
2016-01-14T20:45:27Z TruePika: grr machine corruption
2016-01-14T20:45:43Z Bicyclidine: no. the first screenshot on the page is langton loops
2016-01-14T20:45:49Z TruePika: For some reason, it appears that cl-readline keeps breaking my SBCL
2016-01-14T20:45:59Z Bicyclidine: Breaking how?
2016-01-14T20:46:26Z TruePika: Corrupting the machine instance, and I saw a double free from one crash (where glibc reported it, instead of SBCL)
2016-01-14T20:46:53Z TruePika: glibc reported it being readline, but it might be a bug in cl-readline calling some function extra times
2016-01-14T20:47:16Z larme joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:47:25Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:47:43Z TruePika: I really don't want to have to rewrite this in C++ or something (part of the reason why I choose Lisp is the existance of the REPL)
2016-01-14T20:48:10Z sebboh: Bicyclidine: I already had Golly installed and now I see that there is something called RuleLoader, though which I can define a variety of CA.  Dunno if 'arbitrary' is the right adjective.
2016-01-14T20:48:32Z TruePika: sebboh: wait, Golly supports Lisp coding?
2016-01-14T20:48:35Z jabird joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:48:46Z sebboh: TruePika: not that I know of. I'm talking off topic...
2016-01-14T20:48:59Z TruePika: oh :(  that would have been fun to mess with
2016-01-14T20:49:17Z jasom: TruePika: have you tried linedit?
2016-01-14T20:49:34Z jasom: TruePika: which features of readline do you need?
2016-01-14T20:49:40Z sebboh: TruePika: Rosettacode has various toy implementations of game of life and other CA for common lisp.
2016-01-14T20:50:08Z TruePika: jasom: Arbritrary tab completion, history, and the ability to act on stuff like F1..F12 keys
2016-01-14T20:50:23Z TruePika: well, "arbritrary" as in I have a list of things that it can complete to
2016-01-14T20:51:02Z TruePika: linedit only appears to complete to symbols in the package, and doesn't appear to have support for F1..F12
2016-01-14T20:51:37Z jabird left #lisp
2016-01-14T20:51:52Z TruePika: I messed around with it last night, not a solution as far as I'm concerned
2016-01-14T20:52:38Z TruePika: Technically, this is a collection of programs, and only one uses readline or any other sort of terminal interaction
2016-01-14T20:52:52Z TruePika: the other programs just do database-related stuff, and are rock-solid
2016-01-14T20:53:24Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:53:29Z jasom: it is possible to customize linedit's completion, just not documented
2016-01-14T20:53:32Z TruePika: my current idea of a solution is to rewrite everything the readline program needs in C++, and try to make a wrapper to access the library calls through Lisp (but this will be a lot of work)
2016-01-14T20:53:55Z mordocai: TruePika: Why wouldn't the solution instead be to fix cl-readline?
2016-01-14T20:53:58Z TruePika: jasom: didn't see anything in linedit's package to that extent, IIRC, so it doesn't seem exported
2016-01-14T20:54:08Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:54:11Z mordocai: Seems easier
2016-01-14T20:54:16Z TruePika: mordocai: because IME SBCL is a major pain to debug with
2016-01-14T20:54:47Z TruePika: (and I can't easily switch to something like clisp without macroing a lot of stuff I'm using to allow multiple implementations)
2016-01-14T20:54:57Z mood: PuercoPop: I'm not sure, really. I want something performant that doesn't rely on walking trough a list of regexps and checking each one, but I also want the matching to be very flexible. I would like, basically, the ability to specify requirements for whatever values you want to throw at the routing function. Vague, I know.
2016-01-14T20:55:01Z jasom: double-frees should be easy to fix
2016-01-14T20:55:02Z mordocai: TruePika: It actually has one of the better debugging experiences in my experience, especially if you use it with SLIME/Sly
2016-01-14T20:55:13Z TruePika: jasom: double-frees are only part of the problem
2016-01-14T20:55:14Z mordocai: TruePika: It is just hard to read the backtraces sometimes
2016-01-14T20:55:20Z TruePika: mordocai: I'm a Vim user :P
2016-01-14T20:55:35Z jasom: TruePika: then use evil-mode :)
2016-01-14T20:55:35Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-14T20:55:46Z mordocai: TruePika: So? You have to have a separate repl anyway, do it with emacs + slime instead of raw terminal
2016-01-14T20:55:53Z jasom: TruePika: if you're using sbcl without slime, then it's like debugging with a hand tied behind your back
2016-01-14T20:56:27Z jasom: I did what mordocai suggests for several years, and now use emacs with evil-mode (which is a vim emulation layer for emacs)
2016-01-14T20:57:41Z TruePika: well I'm booting the VM, I'll try to see what cl-readline is doing
2016-01-14T20:58:48Z voidlily quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T20:58:49Z mordocai: Yeah so far the only repl experience worth anything for me has been Slime and its fork Sly
2016-01-14T20:59:29Z TruePika: well I guess I need to go install emacs <_<
2016-01-14T20:59:58Z jasom: TruePika: are you on a *nix?
2016-01-14T21:00:09Z mordocai: TruePika: Yeah, I mean you don't have to use it for anything but the REPL if you don't want to. And getting just slime setup is pretty easy (do it through quicklisp's slime helper)
2016-01-14T21:00:13Z TruePika: yeah, Debian, I'm installing emacs and slime right now
2016-01-14T21:00:28Z jasom: I would recommend against the debian slime install
2016-01-14T21:00:47Z mordocai: With debian's you can get version mismatches
2016-01-14T21:00:51Z TruePika: my host OS is Windows, I do all my coding work in a Linux VM since MS's tools are terrible
2016-01-14T21:01:19Z TruePika: well I also have a much newer SBCL than Debian provides...still need to fix the old ASDF also
2016-01-14T21:01:38Z jasom: https://phab.jasom.org/F10 <-- there's a script that will install the quicklisp slime (and install quicklisp if not present) and setup the .emacs to load it
2016-01-14T21:01:40Z TruePika: (I compiled the newest, to see if it was an issue with SBCL; it doesnt appear to be)
2016-01-14T21:01:47Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:02:50Z mordocai: Oooh nice jasom
2016-01-14T21:03:17Z jasom: mordocai: note it will cowardly refuse to modify the .emacs if the regex "slime" matches anywhere in the regex
2016-01-14T21:03:18Z TruePika: well when this finishes installing, I'll remove slime and run that
2016-01-14T21:03:35Z jasom: mordocai: note it will cowardly refuse to modify the .emacs if the regex "slime" matches anywhere in the .emacs file
2016-01-14T21:03:37Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:03:59Z TruePika: ...<_< ofc, I can't just wget that
2016-01-14T21:04:10Z jasom: TruePika: no, you can't
2016-01-14T21:04:24Z TruePika: just got it on host, about to scp it over
2016-01-14T21:04:36Z TruePika: you can tell I'm used to this kind of thing
2016-01-14T21:05:26Z mordocai: jasom: That's definitely a nice script to have around for new common lispers
2016-01-14T21:05:40Z jasom: mordocai: feel free to link it in here any time
2016-01-14T21:05:46Z mordocai: Half the argument against emacs is they don't want to learn how to set it up
2016-01-14T21:06:26Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:06:33Z mordocai: Saved it in my org notes file, hopefully i'll remember it is there
2016-01-14T21:06:42Z TruePika: xD I found a "bug" in the script
2016-01-14T21:06:54Z jasom: TruePika: oh?
2016-01-14T21:07:07Z TruePika: yeah, it tried installing quicklisp, which is already installed
2016-01-14T21:07:19Z jasom: that should be benign
2016-01-14T21:07:26Z eraaij quit (Quit: eraaij)
2016-01-14T21:07:29Z TruePika: yeah, I just told it to open the existing one
2016-01-14T21:07:33Z TruePika: ...
2016-01-14T21:07:37Z TruePika: what
2016-01-14T21:07:38Z hiroakip: hi there, i want to append a list to a list of list without losing the single list structures, how do i do this?
2016-01-14T21:07:44Z TruePika: Symbol "CODE-TRACE-TABLE-OFFSET-SLOT" not found in the SB-VM package.
2016-01-14T21:08:11Z TruePika: hiroakip: something like a concatenate?
2016-01-14T21:08:26Z sebboh: push?
2016-01-14T21:08:43Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:08:45Z mordocai: append shouldn't lose anything should it?
2016-01-14T21:09:09Z jasom: append shares structure with the last list, but shouldn't lose anything
2016-01-14T21:09:54Z hiroakip: TruePika, not really see: (some-function '((1 1 6 -25) (0 1 25 6) (0 0 331 0)) (0 0 0 331 0)) --> (0 0 0 331 0) ((1 1 6 -25) (0 1 25 6) (0 0 331 0) (0 0 0 331 0)))
2016-01-14T21:10:19Z hiroakip: ah, sorry, this is wrong one seceond please
2016-01-14T21:10:56Z hiroakip:   (some-function '((1 1 6 -25) (0 1 25 6) (0 0 331 0)) (0 0 0 331 0)) -->((1 1 6 -25) (0 1 25 6) (0 0 331 0) (0 0 0 331 0))
2016-01-14T21:11:23Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:11:58Z hiroakip: i think (reverse (push (reverse ... would do it, but this isn't very nice, i think
2016-01-14T21:12:19Z TruePika: I would think (without messing around in REPL) that (concatenate 'list ...) might work
2016-01-14T21:12:24Z Bicyclidine: you need to quote the second list too... but, in that case the fact that the elements are lists isn't really relevant
2016-01-14T21:12:34Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:12:56Z Bicyclidine: you could do (append first-list (list addend)), among other things
2016-01-14T21:13:36Z Bicyclidine: TruePika: there's an issue for that from july 2014 relating to version incompatibilities
2016-01-14T21:14:49Z voidlily joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:14:51Z TruePika: Bicyclidine: RE: my suggestion to hiroakip, readline, or what?
2016-01-14T21:15:03Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:15:04Z sebboh: hiroakip: that's what I came up with.  The push+reverse thing.  Can anyone speak to our presumption of performance penalties for doing that?  In my own code, it works fine with tens of thousands of integers--no perceptible performance problems.
2016-01-14T21:15:08Z Bicyclidine: TruePika: code-trade-table-offset-slot
2016-01-14T21:15:48Z hiroakip: ahh, both works, TruePika Bicyclidine thank you very much
2016-01-14T21:15:54Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:16:05Z hiroakip: i am doing the gram-schmidt orthogonal algorithm here :D
2016-01-14T21:16:53Z YYZ_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:17:04Z mtl_: sebboh: I think maybe the length of the list you're adding to is more relevant than the amount of integers in the list you're adding to it
2016-01-14T21:17:12Z TruePika: Bicyclidine: oh, slime-related
2016-01-14T21:17:20Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T21:17:28Z TruePika: I'm working on getting el-get set up so I can get evil
2016-01-14T21:18:13Z sebboh: mtl_ I mean the list contained tens of thousands of individual integers.
2016-01-14T21:18:25Z mtl_: oh, ok
2016-01-14T21:18:32Z sebboh: Small ones. :)
2016-01-14T21:18:40Z hiroakip: ahh great, it really does the gram-schmidt now
2016-01-14T21:19:12Z sebboh: el-get?  What version of emacs have you installed, TruePika?
2016-01-14T21:19:17Z TruePika: so something like adding the new list on as the cdr of the last element of a possible copy of the first list?
2016-01-14T21:19:21Z TruePika: sebboh: one moment...
2016-01-14T21:19:26Z freehck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T21:19:34Z TruePika: 23.2.1
2016-01-14T21:19:40Z sebboh: :D how
2016-01-14T21:19:49Z TruePika: which looks old, given (C) 2010
2016-01-14T21:20:03Z TruePika: sebboh: aptitude on Debian
2016-01-14T21:20:23Z sebboh: Yes.  24+ have native package management, so you don't need el-get.
2016-01-14T21:20:56Z sebboh: you can M-x list-packages C-s slime (and scroll a bit) to install slime.
2016-01-14T21:21:35Z mordocai: sebboh: don't want to do that
2016-01-14T21:21:40Z mordocai: sebboh: use quicklisp
2016-01-14T21:22:19Z sebboh: mordocai: I have some quicklisp slime-emacs-swank version sync thing.. is that what you're talking about?
2016-01-14T21:22:48Z TruePika: and evil looks like it might have an issue of its own, deactivate-current-input-method-function
2016-01-14T21:22:54Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T21:23:02Z TruePika: see why I wasn't bothering with emacs :D
2016-01-14T21:24:04Z mordocai: sebboh: I do it via quicklisp-slime-helper yeah
2016-01-14T21:24:10Z mordocai: TruePika: Well its due to ancient versions
2016-01-14T21:24:18Z mordocai: TruePika: not emacs itself
2016-01-14T21:25:21Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:25:25Z TruePika: well I guess I'll get ASDF resolved right now
2016-01-14T21:25:47Z jasom: I just used git to install evil
2016-01-14T21:26:06Z DANtheBEASTman joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:26:32Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-14T21:27:22Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:27:33Z DANtheBEASTman quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T21:27:47Z jasom: but I had been using emacs for a while at that point (was just using emacs as a better repl/debugger before evil existed)
2016-01-14T21:27:53Z TruePika: and I can't figure out what to do about ASDF
2016-01-14T21:28:16Z sebboh: I use Debian unstable, and ever since around emacs 25, I've been able to pretty easily just git clone emacs itself and compile it.  Then I symlink ~/bin/emacs to ~/src/emacs/whatever/whatever/somebinarywithemacsinthename and then everything Just Works.
2016-01-14T21:28:22Z lisper29` joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:28:23Z PuercoPop quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:28:34Z TruePika: I have 3.1.5 working from SBCL, but a very old one at /usr/share/common-lisp/source/cl-asdf
2016-01-14T21:28:41Z TruePika: "very old" being <2.27
2016-01-14T21:28:45Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:28:46Z mordocai: TruePika: remove that one
2016-01-14T21:29:00Z jasom: TruePika: apt-get --purge remove cl-asdf
2016-01-14T21:29:01Z mordocai: It's probably from debian's package
2016-01-14T21:29:16Z TruePika: but that then tries to remove stuff like clisp
2016-01-14T21:29:21Z jasom: ugh
2016-01-14T21:29:32Z TruePika: ikr
2016-01-14T21:29:35Z jasom shakes fist at debian for making clisp depend on asdf
2016-01-14T21:29:54Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:30:26Z sebboh: why would clisp depend on cl-asdf? ugh... just manually, physically delete most of the files you see if you do dpkg -L cl-asdf.  I presume you know this breaks your warranty, but ffs debian, you have BEEN asking for this...
2016-01-14T21:30:27Z jasom: well you can at least modify your lisp init files to not opt into any of the common-lisp-controller stuff (IIRC, I haven't used deb in about a decade)
2016-01-14T21:31:21Z jasom: TruePika: don't do what sebboh said, just make sure /etc/sbclrc doesn't load any of that stuff
2016-01-14T21:32:26Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:34:53Z TruePika: How would I :ignore-inherited-configuration ?
2016-01-14T21:34:59Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:35:29Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2016-01-14T21:36:26Z brandonz joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:40:24Z spupuser quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T21:41:10Z cabaire quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-14T21:41:18Z YYZ_ left #lisp
2016-01-14T21:41:23Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:43:05Z rpg_ joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:43:14Z rpg_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T21:46:03Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:46:15Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:46:27Z jasom: TruePika: in the asdf config?  That's an option to put in a config file
2016-01-14T21:46:56Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:47:26Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:48:00Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:48:14Z TruePika: jasom: that's what I'm having trouble with right this moment
2016-01-14T21:48:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:48:44Z TruePika: I tried dropping it into a /etc/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/ file, but that just caused SBCL to error out on startup
2016-01-14T21:48:49Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2016-01-14T21:48:51Z lisper29` left #lisp
2016-01-14T21:48:55Z TruePika: so I don't think I did it correctly
2016-01-14T21:49:59Z TruePika: Invalid source registry (:IGNORE-INHERITED-CONFIGURATION) in #P"..." (will be skipped)
2016-01-14T21:52:55Z TruePika: meh, I'll just remove the Debian one and manually install clisp
2016-01-14T21:55:23Z feep joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:55:40Z feep: hi
2016-01-14T21:55:56Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-14T21:56:23Z feep: I'm trying to do a thing where I take lambdas inside other lambdas and move them to the top-level, turning their context into a pointer to an allocated data structure that's passed in as an implicit parameter
2016-01-14T21:56:31Z feep: I _thought_ this was lambda lifting but apparently it's not?
2016-01-14T21:56:43Z feep: like, a computer sciencey friend insists that it's not
2016-01-14T21:56:52Z feep: can somebody give me an example for proper lambda lifting in action?
2016-01-14T21:57:11Z Bicyclidine: Sounds like lambda lifting to me.
2016-01-14T21:57:26Z feep: yeah see I thought so too
2016-01-14T21:57:38Z TruePika: anyway, if anyone's curious, I need clisp in addition to sbcl because a different system I have, which runs on an even _older_ version of Debian, runs clisp
2016-01-14T21:57:55Z TruePika: (if anyone is further curious, said older Debian system is actually a Wii)
2016-01-14T21:58:18Z spupuser joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:58:24Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T21:58:27Z TruePika: putting long-running code on a low-power-consumption system that actually tolerates brownouts FTW
2016-01-14T21:59:04Z TruePika: as a bonus, I can (with-slot-led) as an indicator of when my code has finished :)
2016-01-14T21:59:07Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-14T21:59:43Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:00:37Z Bicyclidine: wikipedia makes it seem like it might "actually" be "closure conversion", but they seem pretty similar...
2016-01-14T22:02:33Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T22:02:54Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T22:03:16Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:03:29Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:05:00Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T22:05:09Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T22:05:57Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:07:52Z Howling quit (Quit: :tiuQ)
2016-01-14T22:11:02Z TruePika: well I have clisp running make check ATM
2016-01-14T22:11:44Z TruePika: and it segfaulted <_<
2016-01-14T22:14:00Z TruePika: eh? now SBCL, running my code that would crash, can't even load libreadline?
2016-01-14T22:14:26Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:14:39Z TruePika: as in libreadline.so.6.3 or stuff
2016-01-14T22:14:44Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T22:14:52Z TruePika: I hope aptitude didn't decide to remove it
2016-01-14T22:15:12Z TruePika: or wait, I manually removed it and did a compile from source
2016-01-14T22:16:00Z prxq quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T22:16:01Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T22:17:41Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:19:07Z TruePika: I can physically see /usr/lib/libreadline.so
2016-01-14T22:19:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:19:10Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-14T22:19:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:19:40Z TruePika: and /usr/local/lib/libreadline.so.6.3
2016-01-14T22:19:53Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-14T22:20:05Z TruePika: so it went to crashing SBCL to outright refusing to load
2016-01-14T22:21:39Z TruePika: ...
2016-01-14T22:21:52Z TruePika: cffi:*foreign-library-directories* is NIL
2016-01-14T22:22:32Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-14T22:23:51Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-14T22:27:24Z jfo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:27:37Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:27:57Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:29:31Z TruePika: ldconfig does in fact see libreadline
2016-01-14T22:29:46Z Bicyclidine: foreign library directories is supposed to be nil
2016-01-14T22:30:02Z Bicyclidine: sbcl just uses dlopen
2016-01-14T22:30:41Z TruePika: well then why can't it find readline?
2016-01-14T22:30:54Z pillton: What does the error message say?
2016-01-14T22:31:30Z pjb: jackdaniel: (defstruct (point3d (:type list)) x y z) (mapcar 'print (make-point3d :x 1 :z 3 :y 2))   s/list/vector/ s/mapcar/map 'nil/
2016-01-14T22:31:40Z TruePika: one moment while I make it a single line...
2016-01-14T22:31:54Z pillton: Use paste.lisp.org
2016-01-14T22:32:21Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-14T22:32:48Z TruePika: I'm having trouble with common-lisp.net for some reason
2016-01-14T22:33:15Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T22:33:19Z pillton: Me too. Try hastebin.com
2016-01-14T22:33:20Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-14T22:33:22Z TruePika: meh, different pastebin: http://www.rafb.me/results/B4iQct25.html
2016-01-14T22:34:08Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:34:25Z pillton: Have you tried using an absolute pathname?
2016-01-14T22:34:43Z TruePika: I don't think that will help much
2016-01-14T22:34:44Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-14T22:34:59Z TruePika: my line of code which triggers that: (ql:quickload "cl-readline" :silent t)
2016-01-14T22:35:24Z TruePika: This didn't used to error out, only since I updated everything
2016-01-14T22:35:48Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:36:12Z pillton: Let me rephrase. Please try using an absolute pathname.
2016-01-14T22:36:28Z pillton: (cffi:load-foreign-library "absolute-pathname")
2016-01-14T22:37:20Z TruePika: #<CFFI:FOREIGN-LIBRARY LIBREADLINE.SO-498 "libreadline.so">
2016-01-14T22:37:44Z TruePika: hm
2016-01-14T22:37:58Z TruePika: if I just specify libreadline.so, it still works
2016-01-14T22:38:03Z TruePika: (from REPL)
2016-01-14T22:38:25Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:39:26Z pillton: Now. Go through all of your other assumptions and make sure they hold.
2016-01-14T22:40:24Z TruePika: REPL won't load cl-readline without erroring LOAD-FOREIGN-LIBRARY-ERROR
2016-01-14T22:41:29Z TruePika: this makes me think the issue lies in cl-readline, which is almost impossible
2016-01-14T22:41:51Z TruePika: yeah same version as I was using the other day
2016-01-14T22:41:56Z TruePika: (of cl-readline)
2016-01-14T22:41:57Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-14T22:42:31Z wheelsucker quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T22:43:43Z pillton: Disable your initrc, clear your ASDF cache and try and load cl-readline.
2016-01-14T22:44:57Z TruePika: how would that be done, since common-lisp.net is broken?
2016-01-14T22:45:49Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T22:46:10Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:46:35Z pillton: TruePika: http://hastebin.com/qavevexida.lisp
2016-01-14T22:47:11Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:47:15Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:47:37Z pillton: Opps. I made a mistake. http://hastebin.com/vafuqogutu.lisp
2016-01-14T22:48:17Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:48:45Z TruePika: (CFFI::FL-ERROR "Unable to load any of the alternatives:~%   ~S" ("libreadline.so.6.3" "libreadline.so.6" "libreadline.so"))
2016-01-14T22:48:45Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T22:48:46Z Guest59804 joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:48:50Z TruePika: i.e. same error
2016-01-14T22:48:52Z dwrngr joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:49:37Z TruePika: though that merge-pathnames thing is nice to know, I've always been specifying the absolute path to quicklisp/setup.lisp
2016-01-14T22:49:51Z TruePika: (i.e. /home/chris/quicklisp/setup.lisp)
2016-01-14T22:49:57Z pillton: Where is libreadline?
2016-01-14T22:50:11Z TruePika: /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib
2016-01-14T22:50:30Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:50:42Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T22:51:03Z TruePika: /usr/lib/libreadline.so -> /lib/libreadline.so.6 -> libreadline.so.6.1
2016-01-14T22:51:20Z duggiefr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T22:51:47Z TruePika: I wonder...
2016-01-14T22:52:07Z TruePika: it looks like dbi still works
2016-01-14T22:52:09Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:52:34Z TruePika: so cffi itself might not be at fault
2016-01-14T22:52:52Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:53:25Z TruePika: yeah dbi works, this one program (that doesn't touch readline) worked successfully
2016-01-14T22:53:42Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T22:54:21Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:54:49Z TruePika: now I'm wondering if there is any chance at all that it can't load the libs because there is something wrong with them
2016-01-14T22:54:56Z TruePika: there was no 'make check'
2016-01-14T22:55:15Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-14T22:55:39Z pillton: Well the only thing I can think of is that there is an architecture mismatch. e.g. 64bit lisp implementation loading a 32 bit library. ii)
2016-01-14T22:55:55Z TruePika: I know libreadline is 64-bit
2016-01-14T22:56:02Z TruePika: I think sbcl is also 64-bit
2016-01-14T22:56:09Z pillton: file will tell you.
2016-01-14T22:56:35Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T22:56:36Z TruePika: yeah both x86-64
2016-01-14T22:57:06Z TruePika: and in fact the completly-irrelevant libreadline.so.5.2 is also x86-64
2016-01-14T22:57:20Z pillton passes the torch to someone else.
2016-01-14T22:58:09Z Guest59804: Is it possible at all to have two subsidiary lisps running under SLIME?
2016-01-14T22:58:32Z pillton: Yes.
2016-01-14T22:58:39Z TruePika: I'd think so, since Limp can
2016-01-14T22:59:00Z TruePika: and Limp probably is less functional than slime
2016-01-14T22:59:27Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-14T22:59:31Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-14T22:59:35Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:01:59Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:02:09Z BitPuffin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T23:02:13Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-14T23:03:03Z TruePika: For any and all records, http://hastebin.com/raw/ehedanebig
2016-01-14T23:03:20Z TruePika: That's a c/p out of PuTTY
2016-01-14T23:08:29Z mood: TruePika: Have you tried running ldconfig?
2016-01-14T23:08:35Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:08:36Z TruePika: eh? (not at you)
2016-01-14T23:08:57Z TruePika: I just tried a (cffi:load-foreign-library "libreadline.so") again, and it failed
2016-01-14T23:09:03Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T23:09:06Z TruePika: /usr/local/lib/libreadline.so: undefined symbol: PC.
2016-01-14T23:09:13Z TruePika: this probably explains a lot
2016-01-14T23:09:17Z jfo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T23:10:41Z Guest59804: TruePika: I'm not sure how SLIME would associate source code buffers with one inferior lisp or another.
2016-01-14T23:11:32Z mood: Guest59804: You can cycle the active lisp using M-x slime-cycle-connections
2016-01-14T23:11:48Z Guest59804: mood: SLIME is even more awesome than I had guessed!
2016-01-14T23:11:52Z Guest59804: thanks!
2016-01-14T23:12:38Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-14T23:13:09Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-14T23:13:12Z TruePika: Okay, so I don't get that error out after I 'make uninstall'ed readline and went with the distro one
2016-01-14T23:13:30Z Guest59804: mood: Any chance that's in a contrib?
2016-01-14T23:13:37Z attila_lendvai: Guest59804: there's a default connection where most requests go (except repls, debuggers, etc that are tied to a specific lisp vm connection)
2016-01-14T23:14:04Z mood: Guest59804: Nope, but I now see it's deprecated. Try slime-next-connection
2016-01-14T23:14:20Z Guest59804: mood: thanks again.  I didn't find slime-cycle-connections....
2016-01-14T23:14:24Z TruePika: and libreadline is still x86-64
2016-01-14T23:15:23Z TruePika: stay tuned to see if readline still causes crashes
2016-01-14T23:16:16Z TruePika: yup
2016-01-14T23:17:21Z TruePika: glibc detected double free http://hastebin.com/raw/osahelatef
2016-01-14T23:17:42Z TruePika: _rl_free_history_entry+0x24
2016-01-14T23:18:15Z TruePika: This is the more verbose of the two errors I get
2016-01-14T23:18:28Z TruePika: the other one just has SBCL report that it got corrupted
2016-01-14T23:18:37Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-14T23:19:07Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-14T23:19:11Z TruePika: sadly no core dumped
2016-01-14T23:19:27Z TruePika: (which is odd IMO, since I have stuff configured to dump core)
2016-01-14T23:20:11Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:23:50Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:31:15Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-14T23:31:16Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:31:25Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:32:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-14T23:32:41Z TruePika: eh?
2016-01-14T23:33:27Z TruePika: apprently linedit likes echoing U+1F514 BELL to my terminal
2016-01-14T23:33:42Z TruePika: which doesn't know what to do with it
2016-01-14T23:34:00Z TruePika: ...wait
2016-01-14T23:34:23Z TruePika: maybe there's a #\BELL instead of #\BEL
2016-01-14T23:34:56Z Bike: there is. iirc it indicates a bell pictogram, unlike bel which is a control code to ring a bell
2016-01-14T23:35:16Z Bike: which is why it has such a high codepoint
2016-01-14T23:35:43Z TruePika: no, I mean inside linedit
2016-01-14T23:35:50Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:35:55Z TruePika: but it's using (code-char 7)
2016-01-14T23:36:29Z TruePika: at least according to github
2016-01-14T23:36:32Z Bike: oh. well, does your terminal crash or just ignore it, cos i'd expect the latter at worst
2016-01-14T23:37:00Z TruePika: Terminal tries to display it, but stuff doesn't know it's actually printed
2016-01-14T23:37:14Z TruePika: (tries to display, but it isn't in the current font)
2016-01-14T23:37:25Z Bike: it tries to display a control character? that's weird
2016-01-14T23:37:29Z TruePika: I only found out it was #\BELL from copy-pasting it out of PuTTY
2016-01-14T23:37:42Z TruePika: no, it is issuing #\BELL instead of #\BEL
2016-01-14T23:38:00Z Bike: those are the same in my sbcl. just to confuse me, no doubt
2016-01-14T23:38:01Z TruePika: trying to use #\BELL, the graphic, as a control char
2016-01-14T23:38:15Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:39:22Z dwchandler: TruePika: https://github.com/nikodemus/linedit/commit/bb35a200775802bd63ae42356f17b2db237180d0
2016-01-14T23:39:30Z dwchandler: ^^^ fix for the bell thing
2016-01-14T23:39:46Z TruePika: which is what I was seeing
2016-01-14T23:40:07Z TruePika: ...though that uses #\Bel, which isn't the problem
2016-01-14T23:40:19Z TruePika: I'm looking for what's installed by quicklisp on my system right now
2016-01-14T23:40:22Z Bike: no, it formerly used bel, now it uses character seven.
2016-01-14T23:40:51Z TruePika: I know what diff formatting is <_<
2016-01-14T23:40:53Z TruePika: BUT
2016-01-14T23:40:55Z dwchandler: I applied that patch and that fixed it for me
2016-01-14T23:41:02Z mood: Bike: #\Bel and #\BELL are the same in your SBCL?
2016-01-14T23:41:10Z Bike: yup.
2016-01-14T23:41:19Z Bike: wait.
2016-01-14T23:41:19Z TruePika: I see (write-char #\Bell *error-output*) in what I have from quicklisp
2016-01-14T23:41:20Z mood: That's... odd. Not in mine
2016-01-14T23:41:31Z TruePika: Not here either
2016-01-14T23:41:36Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:41:37Z Bike: No, I'm sorry, that was a CCL repl.
2016-01-14T23:41:52Z mood: Ah
2016-01-14T23:42:09Z Bike: yeah, in my sbcl (char-code #\bell) => 128276
2016-01-14T23:42:29Z TruePika: https://github.com/nikodemus/linedit/commit/da525f0d1666ef33f6c880a2876fccf23ec00899 fixed it
2016-01-14T23:43:24Z TruePika: sadly that change isn't on quicklisp
2016-01-14T23:43:33Z mood: Dangit, c-l.net being offline is really inconvenient. Quicklisp pulls its linedit from gitlab.common-lisp.net
2016-01-14T23:44:09Z TruePika: well I can hack the local copy for now >:D
2016-01-14T23:44:57Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-14T23:45:32Z AlphaAtom quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-14T23:47:53Z TruePika: hmm unknown C-:
2016-01-14T23:47:55Z TruePika: err
2016-01-14T23:47:57Z TruePika: C-L
2016-01-14T23:48:05Z TruePika: this is slightly unconvient
2016-01-14T23:50:36Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:51:11Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:52:23Z TruePika: yeah linedit isn't useful for wrapping SBCL
2016-01-14T23:53:16Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-14T23:53:19Z TruePika: I'm going to compile emacs from source
2016-01-14T23:53:30Z TruePika: then get evil and slime set up with it
2016-01-14T23:53:42Z TruePika: or hmmm
2016-01-14T23:53:58Z TruePika: no, I want to fix my code first
2016-01-14T23:54:33Z hiroakip quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-14T23:54:56Z mood: TruePika: "wrapping sbcl" is easy using rlwrap, but you can't control that from the CL side
2016-01-14T23:55:49Z TruePika: oh, so that's what limp does
2016-01-14T23:56:02Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-14T23:56:05Z TruePika: I have the command histo...wait
2016-01-14T23:56:20Z TruePika: rl -> readline, as in the thing that keeps crashing on the CL side of things?
2016-01-14T23:56:49Z Bike: yeah.
2016-01-14T23:56:59Z mood: Yes, but rlwrap is a command you call like 'rlwrap sbcl' and it automatically wraps the thing in readline
2016-01-14T23:57:19Z TruePika: yeah, without breaking everything in sbcl
2016-01-14T23:57:37Z mood: Exactly, SBCL doesn't even know it's there (I think)
2016-01-14T23:57:45Z TruePika: I'm not sure I'll be able to find a bug in cl-readline
2016-01-14T23:57:50Z TruePika: mood: probably it doesn't
2016-01-14T23:58:32Z Bike: cl-readline looks tiny. any bug would probably have to be in readline, cffi, or sbcl
2016-01-14T23:59:00Z TruePika: well I know there is a bug somewhere  http://hastebin.com/raw/osahelatef
2016-01-14T23:59:14Z TruePika: either sbcl/cffi or readline
2016-01-14T23:59:25Z TruePika: so it doesn't really tell us much
2016-01-14T23:59:27Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-14T23:59:29Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T00:00:05Z TruePika: but I do know that cl-libxml2 works solidly
2016-01-15T00:01:27Z TruePika: cl-readline reports version 6.1
2016-01-15T00:01:45Z TruePika: and I haven't been able to get 6.3 to work
2016-01-15T00:02:35Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-15T00:03:02Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-15T00:03:17Z dwrngr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T00:04:27Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:05:31Z zophy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T00:05:49Z spupuser quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T00:06:06Z jasom: Bike: if you want to write to the *line-buffer* from lisp, there are pitfalls
2016-01-15T00:06:34Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:09:18Z TruePika: libreadline.so is only missing PC (according to nm)
2016-01-15T00:09:38Z TruePika: any idea what that comes from?
2016-01-15T00:11:29Z Guest59804 quit (Quit: Guest59804)
2016-01-15T00:12:17Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T00:15:17Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:15:51Z jasom: oh, and the kwarg for completion on linedit is :completer
2016-01-15T00:16:12Z jasom: you can look at lisp-complete for the default completion function
2016-01-15T00:19:52Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:19:59Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T00:22:05Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-15T00:23:06Z spupuser joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:23:27Z TruePika: so readline isn't linking with termcap stuff
2016-01-15T00:25:15Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T00:26:36Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T00:26:41Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:30:12Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:31:43Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-15T00:32:03Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:35:01Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T00:37:26Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T00:39:44Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:41:36Z TruePika: well I finally hacked libreadline enough to get it to load
2016-01-15T00:41:56Z TruePika: forcing -ltermcap onto its linking args
2016-01-15T00:43:25Z TruePika: and that does nothing to help the crashes
2016-01-15T00:43:31Z TruePika: again glibc double free
2016-01-15T00:44:01Z TruePika: so almost certainly an issue in sbcl/cffi
2016-01-15T00:44:17Z TruePika: or possibly something weird with cl-readline
2016-01-15T00:44:20Z PuercoPop quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-15T00:45:19Z TruePika: how would I hack at linedit so that I can register custom commands for F1..F12?
2016-01-15T00:45:38Z m0li quit (Quit: i'm back.)
2016-01-15T00:46:10Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:46:52Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T00:47:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T00:51:18Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:52:12Z karswell` is now known as karswell
2016-01-15T00:53:24Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-15T00:54:47Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:57:03Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:58:17Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-15T00:58:39Z m0li quit (Quit: I'm back)
2016-01-15T01:00:10Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:00:15Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:01:37Z przl quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T01:03:05Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:03:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-15T01:03:05Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:04:53Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:05:53Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-15T01:06:07Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:08:31Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:08:52Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T01:10:51Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:11:39Z rpg quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-15T01:13:32Z spupuser: the problem with lisp is you cant have lists of arbitrary size
2016-01-15T01:14:35Z sepi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T01:15:41Z spupuser: or any containers for that matter
2016-01-15T01:15:47Z attila_lendvai: the problem with life is that you can't live arbitrarily long
2016-01-15T01:16:54Z TruePika: spupuser: and you can in other languages?
2016-01-15T01:16:56Z spupuser quit (Changing host)
2016-01-15T01:16:56Z spupuser joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:17:06Z TruePika: spupuser: and you can in other languages?
2016-01-15T01:17:56Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T01:18:19Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:18:31Z sepi joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:18:50Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-15T01:18:51Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:22:21Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T01:24:09Z TruePika: and I can't figure out how to notate the F-keys in linedit::defcommand
2016-01-15T01:24:28Z TruePika: I can't spell them out (as e.g. ^[OP, where ^[ is an actual escape)
2016-01-15T01:25:08Z zch_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:25:33Z zch_ is now known as zch
2016-01-15T01:27:10Z InvalidCo: cliki.net and common-lisp.net seem to be down
2016-01-15T01:28:21Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:29:20Z TruePika: in fact, right now I'm not sure it can work with F1..F4 directly, since it sees them as M-O followed by P..S
2016-01-15T01:29:40Z TruePika: It sees everything else as untranslated, though
2016-01-15T01:30:41Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:34:36Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T01:34:40Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:34:45Z Denommus quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-15T01:35:05Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:37:37Z jplankton joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:39:22Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:39:25Z Denommus quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-15T01:39:59Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:41:20Z zch quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-15T01:46:49Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T01:47:58Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:49:23Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-15T01:49:46Z InvalidCo: heh
2016-01-15T01:49:59Z InvalidCo: I like these latin-speaking errors of sbcl
2016-01-15T01:50:16Z InvalidCo: Veritas aeterna. (can't set SYMBOL-VALUE of T)
2016-01-15T01:51:57Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:52:05Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:52:30Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:54:15Z TruePika: anyone know what linedit's equal to rl:forced-update-display is?
2016-01-15T01:54:17Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:55:02Z katco quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-15T01:55:08Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:55:09Z katco joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:58:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T01:59:30Z hexbinder joined #lisp
2016-01-15T01:59:47Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-15T02:01:00Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T02:01:32Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:02:02Z yeticry_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:03:46Z baboon` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T02:04:35Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T02:06:14Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:06:18Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:16:00Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:18:35Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:20:34Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T02:23:28Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:24:03Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:26:46Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-15T02:28:43Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:29:41Z Kundry_Wag: http://stackoverflow.com/a/18391103 -- is anything in this answer different in Common Lisp?
2016-01-15T02:42:38Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:44:00Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T02:44:25Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:45:24Z hydan: Kundry_Wag: google lisp-1 vs lisp-2
2016-01-15T02:46:59Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:47:01Z aap quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T02:48:33Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:49:02Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-15T02:51:52Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T02:53:13Z mordocai: I'm using CL-HEAP and getting http://pamrel.lu/282e3/. I've tried proclaiming inline for those functions in my package files but that doesn't help. The author of CL-heap does declare infline for them in his/her package. How should I fix these warnings?
2016-01-15T02:53:35Z mordocai: I don't particularly care in this case if the functions end up inlined, as long as I stop getting the warnings somehow without having to fork cl-heap
2016-01-15T02:58:29Z Kundry_Wag: hydan: ok, it's exactly the same thing then, I think
2016-01-15T03:00:39Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-15T03:01:33Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-15T03:02:34Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-15T03:05:00Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T03:07:51Z Denommus quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-15T03:08:01Z TruePika quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-15T03:10:01Z ACE_Recliner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T03:13:43Z arrdem quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T03:14:35Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T03:19:38Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-15T03:20:55Z DrCode quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T03:30:25Z jplankton left #lisp
2016-01-15T03:41:52Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-15T03:44:21Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-15T03:44:48Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T03:45:25Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-15T03:47:12Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-15T03:48:31Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T03:53:45Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T03:54:09Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T03:59:56Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T04:01:11Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:01:55Z jaykru quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T04:02:53Z hexbinder left #lisp
2016-01-15T04:10:04Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T04:12:49Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2016-01-15T04:15:05Z warweasle is now known as Morpheus
2016-01-15T04:15:35Z Morpheus is now known as Guest59324
2016-01-15T04:15:58Z Guest59324 left #lisp
2016-01-15T04:16:16Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:16:52Z zch quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-15T04:18:52Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-15T04:19:06Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:19:33Z zch quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-15T04:22:04Z rtoym joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:22:16Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: brb code updates)
2016-01-15T04:23:06Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:23:52Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T04:24:07Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:26:31Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:27:10Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T04:31:54Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-15T04:32:53Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: one more bugfix)
2016-01-15T04:33:31Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:33:33Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:33:50Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-15T04:34:08Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T04:38:29Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:40:52Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:41:04Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:42:41Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:43:26Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T04:45:56Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-15T04:46:14Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-15T04:46:26Z Petit_Dejeuner: Good night
2016-01-15T04:46:38Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T04:58:06Z nyef: Hello beach.
2016-01-15T04:58:28Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T04:58:30Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-15T05:06:50Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T05:09:17Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T05:12:53Z beach: Even though I know that naming is important, when I read other people's code, I am still surprised how much sub-optimal naming prevents me from understanding it.  As part of maintaining the code, I therefore introduce consistent terminology and then names accordingly.
2016-01-15T05:15:22Z beach: Concrete example: in the CLX backend of McCLIM, "modifier" sometimes means some abstract idea of a modifier, sometimes a modifier keycode, sometimes a modifier keysym, sometimes a power-of-2 integer, and sometimes a mask of those integers.
2016-01-15T05:16:49Z beach: Oh, and sometimes a Common Lisp symbol in the keyword package.
2016-01-15T05:17:40Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T05:18:39Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T05:20:18Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T05:21:25Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-15T05:23:35Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T05:23:42Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-15T05:24:00Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-15T05:27:45Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-15T05:28:27Z BitPuffin|osx: I just did this for some reason http://i.imgur.com/5M49Ayz.jpg
2016-01-15T05:29:00Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-15T05:32:42Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-15T05:33:29Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T05:38:30Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-15T05:44:15Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T05:44:56Z loke: I would love to, but I'm heading for lunch now.
2016-01-15T05:49:18Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T05:54:14Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-15T05:54:15Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T05:54:30Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T06:00:52Z zch quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-15T06:06:54Z johs joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:09:46Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T06:16:29Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:18:44Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:26:44Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:29:06Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T06:30:28Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T06:31:40Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:32:29Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:35:02Z arrdem joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:40:40Z jasom: beach: unfortunately the fact that naming is hard gets in the way of doing it right
2016-01-15T06:40:49Z jasom: beach: most people are far more lazy than you
2016-01-15T06:43:20Z lisse quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T06:43:41Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:45:01Z jasom: beach: as proof, I offer the fact that just about everyone in this channel things that "it is possible to improve on existing open-source Common Lisp systems in several ways" but you are the only one to have written SICL.
2016-01-15T06:45:54Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:47:48Z misv_ is now known as misv
2016-01-15T06:47:52Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:51:26Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T06:52:20Z beach: jasom: Thanks, but you are giving me way too much credit.  I am lucky that I can count things like SICL as research, and thus justify my salary.  It means I can spend much more time on such things than would be possible for a person with an unrelated dayjob.
2016-01-15T06:53:02Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T06:53:39Z jasom: beach: this is true, but holy-cow a common-lisp implementation is a crap-ton of unrewarding hard work.
2016-01-15T06:53:45Z jasom has an abandoned one
2016-01-15T06:54:22Z Petit_Dejeuner: "I can count things like SICL as research, and thus justify my salary" living the dream
2016-01-15T06:54:27Z beach: By writing up some pieces of it as papers and submitting those papers to conferences, it gets more rewarding.
2016-01-15T06:55:08Z beach: jasom: Take my technique for CLOS dispatch.  That's definitely NOT unrewarding.
2016-01-15T06:56:01Z jasom: beach: oh yeah, totally cool. But also totally the thing I could never finish on my own, once I solved the hard problems.
2016-01-15T06:56:33Z beach: Finishing things is hard, yes.
2016-01-15T06:56:37Z jasom: (this is part of why I can't be a programmer as a day-job)
2016-01-15T06:56:49Z kdas_ is now known as kushal
2016-01-15T06:56:53Z kushal quit (Changing host)
2016-01-15T06:56:53Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:58:50Z beach: jasom: Maybe you need to gang up with someone who complements you.  I try to do that for writing books and such.
2016-01-15T06:59:01Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:59:16Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-15T06:59:46Z beach: I find that very helpful.  The mutual encouragement is invaluable.
2016-01-15T07:02:21Z spupuser: scheme doesnt have types
2016-01-15T07:02:22Z spupuser: its dumb
2016-01-15T07:02:40Z beach: spupuser: Scheme is off topic in this channel.
2016-01-15T07:02:52Z spupuser: what
2016-01-15T07:02:58Z spupuser: scheme is the first lisp ...
2016-01-15T07:03:02Z spupuser: weirdo
2016-01-15T07:03:08Z beach: This channel is dedicated to Common Lisp.
2016-01-15T07:03:15Z spupuser: that one sucks
2016-01-15T07:03:25Z spupuser: its not even lisp
2016-01-15T07:03:31Z spupuser: its some object oriented bullshit
2016-01-15T07:03:40Z Bike: this is pretty low-effort.
2016-01-15T07:03:44Z spupuser: should just be called Common
2016-01-15T07:04:05Z zch: you need some trolling 101
2016-01-15T07:04:07Z spupuser: scheme is the only true lisp
2016-01-15T07:04:24Z Petit_Dejeuner: Yeah, but javascript is a scheme.
2016-01-15T07:04:24Z zch: The best kind of trolling is subtle trolling
2016-01-15T07:04:28Z beach: zch: Yeah, this one is not great.  We have seen a lot better.
2016-01-15T07:04:28Z Petit_Dejeuner: So only javascript is a true lisp.
2016-01-15T07:04:29Z jackdaniel: spupuser: it's not productive nor entertaining to listen to you /me puts spupuser on the ignore list
2016-01-15T07:04:30Z zch: You fail at that
2016-01-15T07:04:33Z spupuser: what do you think lisp machines are
2016-01-15T07:04:38Z spupuser: common lisp?
2016-01-15T07:05:02Z spupuser: jackdaniel, youre drunk go home
2016-01-15T07:06:09Z vydd joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:07:30Z spupuser: (define add (+ (+ 1 2) (- 2 3) ))
2016-01-15T07:07:40Z spupuser: lambada x.x.y
2016-01-15T07:07:42Z Petit_Dejeuner: Scheme is outdated anyway. You should be using newLISP
2016-01-15T07:08:41Z Petit_Dejeuner: I can't even counter-troll. God this is boring.
2016-01-15T07:09:20Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:10:00Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-15T07:10:10Z zongnanhu joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:10:49Z spupuser: is lambada calculus object oriented?
2016-01-15T07:11:11Z Heranort: it has the potential ability
2016-01-15T07:11:35Z zcm joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:11:38Z spupuser: so church invented object oriented programming
2016-01-15T07:12:10Z Heranort: lambda introduced closure and when closure is combined with macro, it works like OOP
2016-01-15T07:12:24Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:12:56Z spupuser: wow church was a genius. he was programming in OOP in the 1800s
2016-01-15T07:13:01Z Heranort: well it's common that CLOS is just closure+macros, right?
2016-01-15T07:13:19Z Bike: clos is more involved.
2016-01-15T07:13:35Z Bike: object storage is usually more like an array.
2016-01-15T07:14:23Z Heranort: as i know in scheme programmers always handcraft their own easy objects
2016-01-15T07:14:46Z Zhivago: Without a meaningful definition of OO to consider, this conversation is meaningless.
2016-01-15T07:14:54Z Heranort: hmm, just as the SICP told us, dispatcher?
2016-01-15T07:15:16Z Heranort: i think OO is not truly defined yet
2016-01-15T07:15:34Z Zhivago: In which case, I suggest talking about something else, which is.
2016-01-15T07:15:36Z Petit_Dejeuner: Abstracting state by providing an interface to it.
2016-01-15T07:15:46Z Petit_Dejeuner: data abstraction
2016-01-15T07:16:12Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:16:34Z Heranort: Petit_Dejeuner yeah you got that, but don't you think the conception of closure and dispatch is nearing the OOP
2016-01-15T07:16:51Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T07:17:11Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:17:45Z Petit_Dejeuner: A closure provides encapsulation and dispatch, depending on what you mean, provides either message passing or polymorphism. But neither of those are really neccesary.
2016-01-15T07:18:03Z spupuser: crash bandicoot is my favorite game
2016-01-15T07:18:06Z Zhivago: You can think of OO as being a discipline upon procedural abstraction, in most cases.
2016-01-15T07:18:08Z spupuser: and it was programmed in scheme apparently
2016-01-15T07:18:28Z Petit_Dejeuner: That's a funny way of spelling GOAL.
2016-01-15T07:18:29Z Zhivago: In which case, you can see how a closure can provide procedural abstraction.
2016-01-15T07:19:17Z Petit_Dejeuner: er, GOOL
2016-01-15T07:21:37Z spupuser: so I dont get it is common lisp scheme but the things inside the ( ) are objects and have methods/attributes and stuff?
2016-01-15T07:21:42Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:22:04Z Zhivago: What is (class-of 10)?
2016-01-15T07:24:33Z spupuser: hm 10 could be binary for 2 or int
2016-01-15T07:24:53Z Zhivago: Neither of those answers my question.
2016-01-15T07:25:13Z Petit_Dejeuner: Zhivago: #<BUILT-IN-CLASS FIXNUM>
2016-01-15T07:25:28Z zch: you guys checked out guile?
2016-01-15T07:25:30Z Petit_Dejeuner: ...but why do you need to ask?
2016-01-15T07:25:34Z Zhivago: Which is a non-standard subclass of INTEGER, yes.
2016-01-15T07:25:48Z Zhivago: To help spu understand the answer to his question.
2016-01-15T07:25:59Z Petit_Dejeuner: I need to pay attention.
2016-01-15T07:26:21Z Petit_Dejeuner: zch: yeah, but wrong channel
2016-01-15T07:26:36Z Zhivago: So, 10 is an object in CL -- it has an INTEGER class -- there are methods which operate on objects of class INTEGER.
2016-01-15T07:26:58Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:27:08Z Zhivago: (Which is not quite the same as the object having methods/attributes).
2016-01-15T07:27:12Z spupuser: that sounds so ass backwards compared to other languages
2016-01-15T07:27:12Z spupuser: lol
2016-01-15T07:27:28Z spupuser: shouldnt INTEGER be the class that owns 10?
2016-01-15T07:27:41Z spupuser: instead of 10 having INTEGER ?
2016-01-15T07:27:57Z Zhivago: The class describes instances rather than owning them.
2016-01-15T07:28:18Z zch: Petit_Dejeuner: Well, its a lisp channel
2016-01-15T07:28:31Z Petit_Dejeuner: zch: common misconception, it's a common lisp channel
2016-01-15T07:28:36Z spupuser: so you dont have a notion of abstract classes ?
2016-01-15T07:28:36Z Petit_Dejeuner: which is weird
2016-01-15T07:28:47Z zch: its name should be #cl or something then
2016-01-15T07:28:49Z Zhivago: The class is an object of which you can ask questions about theoretical instances.
2016-01-15T07:28:50Z zch: #lisp is quite broad
2016-01-15T07:28:57Z Petit_Dejeuner: zch: kind of late to change it
2016-01-15T07:29:05Z zch: never too late ;)
2016-01-15T07:29:14Z Zhivago: Abstract classes can still describe theoretical instances, even if they can't be realized.
2016-01-15T07:29:29Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T07:29:31Z Petit_Dejeuner: methods on a class with no slots
2016-01-15T07:29:50Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:30:00Z spupuser: Zhivago, isnt the set of instances that an abstract class could describe the empty set since they cant be realized and by definition an instance has to be instantiated ?
2016-01-15T07:30:09Z spupuser: therefore CL is dumb
2016-01-15T07:30:26Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:31:13Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:31:22Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:31:23Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:31:43Z H4ns: spupuser: congratulations, i'm glad that you could draw a simple conclusion.
2016-01-15T07:32:02Z Petit_Dejeuner: I never knew.
2016-01-15T07:32:03Z Petit_Dejeuner: I
2016-01-15T07:32:09Z Petit_Dejeuner: I'ved wasted so much of my life.
2016-01-15T07:32:30Z Zhivago: spu: Regardless, we may still describe such theoretical instances.
2016-01-15T07:32:47Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:33:00Z Petit_Dejeuner: This is all time we could have spent learning Go™ or Swift™.
2016-01-15T07:33:01Z spupuser: how is it an instance
2016-01-15T07:33:04Z spupuser: if it doesnt exist
2016-01-15T07:33:26Z Zhivago: spu: We can talk about many things that do not exist.
2016-01-15T07:33:43Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T07:34:04Z Zhivago: Also, an abstract class can describe part of a realized instance, even if you can't realize an instance from the abstract class's description.
2016-01-15T07:36:05Z tcr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T07:36:12Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:36:20Z spupuser: just seems like theoretical instance
2016-01-15T07:36:23Z spupuser: is an oxymoron
2016-01-15T07:36:27Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:37:34Z Zhivago: Well, I guess you need to accept your personal limitations.
2016-01-15T07:38:12Z spupuser: are there pointers in scheme?
2016-01-15T07:38:19Z spupuser: or lambad calculus
2016-01-15T07:38:35Z zch: idk why you guys give him attention
2016-01-15T07:38:52Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:39:18Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:41:27Z Petit_Dejeuner: zch: if someone's on IRC enough to respond, they aren't doing anything productive (ig me)
2016-01-15T07:42:45Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:43:26Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:45:48Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:47:22Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:47:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:47:39Z spupuser: its crazy that lambda calculus can be mapped t o the memory / bus architecture of a modern computer when it was conceived so many years ago before hardware
2016-01-15T07:49:20Z spupuser: software was invented before hardware ...really gives credence to the mind over matter debate
2016-01-15T07:49:26Z Zhivago: spu: You can map a dog to a transitor radio, if you like.
2016-01-15T07:50:03Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:50:35Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:50:38Z spupuser: ya but underneath all the lambdas CL is really just bits moving across the bus ..
2016-01-15T07:50:47Z spupuser: it blows my mind
2016-01-15T07:51:30Z loke: spupuser: And... Can you believe it? At the end of the day, it's just electrons moving through silicon!
2016-01-15T07:51:47Z jasom: loke: speak for yourself, I'm using a tube-based machine
2016-01-15T07:52:03Z jasom: it's an upgrade from my old electro-mechanical machine
2016-01-15T07:52:39Z H4ns: http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/mind-blown.gif
2016-01-15T07:54:45Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:55:25Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-15T07:55:27Z flip214: jasom: still, quantum-interference is an integral part of your machine, too
2016-01-15T07:55:47Z jasom: flip214: yeah, unlike my old one
2016-01-15T07:55:47Z grublet joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:55:48Z m_zr0_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T07:56:09Z jasom: the tubes are more reliable than the relays though
2016-01-15T07:56:14Z flip214: what? If not for quants and other small things, there'd be no mechanics either
2016-01-15T07:57:20Z jasom: flip214: right, but I wouldn't call quantum-interference a major role, considering one can disregard its effects for something as large as a magnetic relay
2016-01-15T07:58:27Z AlphaAtom quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:58:54Z m_zr0 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T07:59:05Z flip214: jasom: you can't. IIRC atoms wouldn't be stable, and/or pass through each other, etc.
2016-01-15T07:59:22Z flip214: if only looking at macroscopic effects - yes, ignore them.
2016-01-15T08:00:09Z flip214: just wanted to say that the newer the machines, the more "primitive" (as in nearer to the lowest level) the effects used get
2016-01-15T08:00:36Z spupuser: they found gravitational waves
2016-01-15T08:00:44Z spupuser: quantum computers will soon be a reality
2016-01-15T08:00:52Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:01:30Z flip214: spupuser: they are. Mine uses quants all the time - that was what I was trying to get across right now...
2016-01-15T08:02:18Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:03:29Z Bike: ferromagnetism is impossible in classical mechanics and that was proven before the hydrogen atom models existed, so therefore magnetic core memory is more primitive than mosfets. bam
2016-01-15T08:04:08Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:04:10Z flip214: Bike: you don't know all the details of (mos)fets, I guess...
2016-01-15T08:04:46Z Bike: neither did van leeuwen
2016-01-15T08:05:57Z spupuser: motherfucking magnets how do they work
2016-01-15T08:06:04Z flip214: fire wasn't explained correctly for a few thousand years, but used all the same
2016-01-15T08:06:25Z z0d: magnets still require energy to do work
2016-01-15T08:06:34Z z0d: so it's not infinite energy or something
2016-01-15T08:07:22Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:08:48Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:08:50Z spupuser: im embarrassed for micahel farada
2016-01-15T08:08:53Z spupuser: faraday
2016-01-15T08:08:56Z loke: z0d: Only with your "scientific" and narrow minded definition of "work". For us with open minds, we realise that magnets are conduits for the cosmic energy that is channeled from Nibiru through the articfacts at the fake moon landing site to power the quantum memory in my homeopatic medicines.
2016-01-15T08:09:07Z spupuser: took him his entire career to realize sticking a magnet through a coil produces a current
2016-01-15T08:09:10Z spupuser: like duh ...
2016-01-15T08:09:12Z sweater is now known as Guest62529
2016-01-15T08:09:30Z Zhivago: spu: Please learn how to spell "I'm".
2016-01-15T08:10:02Z loke: spupuser: Also, sentences begin with a captial letter.
2016-01-15T08:10:22Z spupuser: nah english is a living language
2016-01-15T08:10:23Z spupuser: it evolves
2016-01-15T08:10:25Z spupuser: its evolved
2016-01-15T08:11:24Z grublet: spupuser: magnets dont work cuz theyre lazy
2016-01-15T08:11:37Z spupuser: agreed
2016-01-15T08:11:42Z spupuser: thats why theres 2 poles
2016-01-15T08:11:45Z spupuser: they cant decide
2016-01-15T08:11:55Z loke: spupuser: Yes, but so far it hasn't evolved away the apostrophes.
2016-01-15T08:12:01Z Zhivago: They would have done better with Mexicans.
2016-01-15T08:12:07Z spupuser: loke: theyre implicit
2016-01-15T08:12:41Z grublet: people that think language is static fascinate me
2016-01-15T08:12:50Z loke: spupuser: For you, perhaps. But remember that most people here does not speak l337. Nor do they even have English as mother tongue.
2016-01-15T08:13:00Z flip214: loke: apropos nibiru, do you know http://www.cosmic-people.com/english/default_en.htm ?
2016-01-15T08:13:44Z loke: flip214: Woah. I don't even have to read anything on that page. All I do is to look at the colour scheme and design to _know_ that everything on it must be absolute truth.
2016-01-15T08:13:56Z phadthai: aka universe people :))
2016-01-15T08:14:09Z spupuser: loke sometimes I forget that not everyone lives in Amurica
2016-01-15T08:14:10Z spupuser: like me
2016-01-15T08:14:12Z flip214: phadthai: "heavenly angels"
2016-01-15T08:14:26Z loke heavenly angel flip214 
2016-01-15T08:14:53Z phadthai: flip214: I remember liking an image showing some dark slave programmers, there also was a cat I think
2016-01-15T08:15:32Z loke: Woohoo. They have a blueprint of the heavenly angel space ship. Let's build one. http://www.cosmic-people.com/english/img_4500/obr4504.jpg
2016-01-15T08:15:55Z phadthai: but they lack lisp technology
2016-01-15T08:16:09Z grublet: yellow is such a putrid color
2016-01-15T08:16:14Z grublet: not as bad as green though
2016-01-15T08:16:51Z flip214: loke: 42x13x8km (not even km³ ;)
2016-01-15T08:16:58Z flip214: and even multidimensional operation!
2016-01-15T08:17:11Z flip214: "(it exists in multiple dimensions at the same time)"  - well, duh ;)
2016-01-15T08:17:21Z phadthai: ah there http://www.cosmic-people.com/english/img_2000/obr2000.jpg
2016-01-15T08:17:41Z flip214: phadthai: right. ouch, ouch, ouch ....
2016-01-15T08:17:53Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-15T08:17:55Z flip214: I can't decide whether that's meant humorist, or earnest.
2016-01-15T08:18:00Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:18:45Z phadthai: if they're serious, there's a serious problem :)
2016-01-15T08:20:15Z spupuser: 'murica, fuck ya. going to save the motherfuckin day ya
2016-01-15T08:20:16Z spupuser quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T08:20:43Z loke: flip214: That's what scares me. It's probably serious.
2016-01-15T08:21:05Z loke: I can't help but think that a humour page would be better designed. At the very least thye wouldn't do all text as images.
2016-01-15T08:21:48Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T08:22:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T08:29:02Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:29:08Z kami joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:29:15Z kami: Good morning.
2016-01-15T08:29:57Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:29:57Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:30:08Z flip214: loke: my personal opinion is that this started out as a joke on a university institute, or something like that ... but later got out of control.
2016-01-15T08:30:50Z broSys quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T08:31:32Z phadthai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe_People
2016-01-15T08:32:53Z grublet: flip214: sounds like social justice on tumblr
2016-01-15T08:37:25Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:41:08Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:41:11Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T08:44:24Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-15T08:44:28Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T08:45:38Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:45:56Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:48:43Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T08:48:52Z Habens joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:49:09Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:52:39Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T08:54:19Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T08:54:56Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-15T08:55:11Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T08:55:29Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:56:58Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T08:57:29Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T08:58:36Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-15T08:59:05Z bolichep quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T09:04:04Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:05:35Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:05:40Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T09:05:58Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:06:02Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:06:11Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T09:08:43Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:08:44Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T09:10:02Z arrdem quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-15T09:10:13Z arrdem joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:10:27Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:12:00Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-15T09:12:29Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T09:13:27Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:14:52Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:16:59Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:18:00Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:18:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T09:20:17Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-15T09:20:34Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T09:22:31Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:23:43Z Carisius joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:25:27Z salv0 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:26:18Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:28:35Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T09:30:03Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:30:09Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:30:23Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:32:05Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-15T09:34:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T09:36:34Z Habens quit
2016-01-15T09:36:40Z pw_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:38:35Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T09:43:55Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:44:15Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-15T09:47:11Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:47:11Z tcr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T09:48:03Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T09:48:18Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:48:33Z froggey joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:50:21Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:50:38Z PuercoPop: is cl.net down for anyone else?
2016-01-15T09:51:30Z jackdaniel: PuercoPop: yes
2016-01-15T09:51:35Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T09:51:49Z jackdaniel: "(...) one of the partitions of the live host got damaged. (...)"
2016-01-15T09:52:20Z H4ns: "restore backup, problem solved."
2016-01-15T09:53:04Z PuercoPop: damn, well i guess i can use wayback machine for asdf's manual
2016-01-15T09:56:27Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T09:58:33Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:01:09Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:01:29Z freehck joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:01:35Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T10:04:23Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T10:11:01Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:11:10Z Guest62529 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T10:11:25Z zacharias_ is now known as zacharias
2016-01-15T10:11:56Z Cymew: PuercoPop: You can always check out the sbcl repo and run make doc to get hold of it
2016-01-15T10:16:00Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:17:00Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T10:17:15Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:20:34Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T10:23:41Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:27:18Z rjmacready joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:28:39Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-15T10:30:30Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:31:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:31:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-15T10:31:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:34:34Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:35:24Z zongnanhu quit (Quit: 离开)
2016-01-15T10:39:24Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T10:40:05Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:42:56Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:44:14Z radioninja_work quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-15T10:47:56Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:48:12Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T10:48:13Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Killed (wilhelm.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2016-01-15T10:48:13Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T10:48:32Z quazimodo quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-15T10:56:21Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T11:01:17Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:01:56Z pw_ left #lisp
2016-01-15T11:02:55Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T11:04:57Z Carisius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T11:07:15Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:12:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T11:12:54Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:15:48Z Joreji joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:18:52Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:20:41Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T11:21:35Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:21:51Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:22:18Z ghard joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:22:23Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T11:22:26Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:26:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T11:27:36Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-15T11:32:35Z Baggers quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T11:33:03Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T11:33:48Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:34:28Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T11:43:08Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:47:41Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:48:04Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T11:49:37Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:49:46Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T11:51:32Z Sando joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:55:37Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T11:56:14Z manuel_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T11:56:26Z Sando: Hello everyone, hope you are all doing well. I started programming in lisp about two months ago. For practice, I decided to implement an assignment using lisp. Would anyone be willing to take a quick look at my code in order to point out beginner mistakes and give tips? Code can be found at https://github.com/sandogeorge/hwis
2016-01-15T11:58:18Z jackdaniel: Sando: in algorithm you use (if (not node) …) - since it's only one branch, you may write (unless node …)
2016-01-15T11:58:46Z jackdaniel: you declare variables inside the method with defvar – it's a local variable, so use (let (exclusive inclusive) …) instead
2016-01-15T12:00:30Z jackdaniel: you have also non-optimal (> (length path) 0) – it's enough to check, if it's not null - #'length traverses the whole list
2016-01-15T12:01:21Z jackdaniel: generally the code is written in a very imperative style with various exits, but it's a matter of preference I suppose
2016-01-15T12:01:51Z Sando: jackdaniel: Thanks for taking time to check it out. Will make note of your recommendations and revise the code accordingly
2016-01-15T12:02:07Z jackdaniel: same thing with hwis.lisp – instead of defvar inside of the function use let and initialize stuff directly
2016-01-15T12:02:20Z Sando: ok
2016-01-15T12:02:27Z jackdaniel: (let ((variable-name variable-value) (second-var-name  value)) forms )
2016-01-15T12:03:36Z jackdaniel: yeap, that're the lowest hanging fruits I can see at first glance :)
2016-01-15T12:03:52Z Sando: thanks
2016-01-15T12:06:46Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T12:07:38Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:07:39Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:08:46Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:08:46Z PuercoPop: anyone else having problems compiling csql-postgresql (when using cffi-uffi-compat)? database-write-large-object in particular?
2016-01-15T12:09:08Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:09:18Z sid_cypher: omg language mangling and cosmic people from Nibiru in my #lisp, i must be dreaming
2016-01-15T12:12:46Z Heranort: you must have read land of lisp...
2016-01-15T12:13:06Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:14:16Z sid_cypher: cat piano solo
2016-01-15T12:15:06Z Heranort: meow meow meow
2016-01-15T12:15:26Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T12:15:37Z sid_cypher: exactly!
2016-01-15T12:15:44Z Heranort: i have to admit that i don't quite understand that sound
2016-01-15T12:16:49Z Heranort: but that book really arose my passion XD
2016-01-15T12:17:06Z sid_cypher: try balancing weasels on a rake until you reach enlightenment^^
2016-01-15T12:17:46Z Heranort: XD that is it
2016-01-15T12:19:15Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T12:20:02Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2016-01-15T12:20:42Z sid_cypher: LOOP and FORMAT: the seedy underbelly of Lisp (seven tokens in a row without a paren? run for the hills!)
2016-01-15T12:22:22Z Heranort: it's rare to see crazy authors like him,
2016-01-15T12:22:55Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:23:11Z Heranort: and when i think of that i came to know of this book because of googling by myself but not hearing from others, i feel so proud
2016-01-15T12:24:43Z sid_cypher: Heranort: nah, you can be proud when you continue the good work, like when you make a project and document it in the LoL style
2016-01-15T12:25:38Z Heranort: :D you can say that again!
2016-01-15T12:26:39Z sid_cypher: i want my docs to be like this: https://github.com/zkat/sheeple - fully buzzword compliant and more!
2016-01-15T12:27:49Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:27:51Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:29:55Z InvalidCo: iirc sheeple has a bug regarding prototype recompilation when you shuffle around the superclasses
2016-01-15T12:30:21Z InvalidCo: namely, if the superclass list has the same members as previously but in a different order, no change will be registered
2016-01-15T12:30:55Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:32:48Z sid_cypher: the project page is down and github issues are not enabled for the project
2016-01-15T12:33:54Z sid_cypher: oh, cliki and co are all down
2016-01-15T12:34:10Z InvalidCo: yeah, they've been down for some time now
2016-01-15T12:37:10Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:37:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T12:38:00Z InvalidCo: I wonder if an/the(?) admin of those sites lurks here
2016-01-15T12:38:34Z InvalidCo: they seem to be tied to some software company
2016-01-15T12:38:41Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T12:40:10Z InvalidCo: their corporate site was responding just fine last time I checked, so it's probably some config/reboot mishap which won't be noticed until someone calls the guys who run those boxen :)
2016-01-15T12:40:30Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T12:41:50Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T12:41:59Z nzambe quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T12:50:05Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T12:51:50Z cadadar quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T12:52:30Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:01:00Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:01:00Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:04:54Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T13:05:05Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:08:16Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T13:09:44Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T13:09:45Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T13:09:56Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:10:21Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:10:21Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:12:13Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:12:17Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:13:01Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:14:04Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T13:14:04Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T13:14:26Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T13:15:02Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:15:42Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:15:51Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T13:15:51Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T13:15:59Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T13:16:32Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:17:02Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T13:17:42Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:17:43Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:18:51Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:19:22Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:26:30Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-15T13:26:47Z Joreji joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:27:12Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T13:27:59Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:28:57Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:29:15Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T13:30:47Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:31:56Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T13:33:44Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T13:39:23Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:43:03Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T13:43:25Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:45:07Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:46:54Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T13:47:03Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:48:53Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:49:07Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:51:02Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T13:51:38Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:51:45Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-15T13:51:46Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-15T13:53:15Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T13:59:35Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:02:25Z rszeno joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:02:46Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:07:04Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:07:04Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-15T14:07:05Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:08:29Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:09:00Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:10:09Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:10:16Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:13:06Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:23:22Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:24:00Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:24:47Z myfani joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:26:49Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:26:50Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:26:51Z jasom quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:27:18Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:28:56Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:29:41Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T14:31:05Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:32:02Z Heranort quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-15T14:32:15Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:32:42Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T14:33:09Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T14:33:09Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T14:33:38Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:33:40Z cpc26 quit
2016-01-15T14:35:46Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:36:12Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-15T14:36:24Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:38:44Z jasom joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:44:06Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:45:08Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:46:01Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-15T14:46:55Z jasom quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:48:56Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:53:06Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T14:56:58Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T14:57:41Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:58:10Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-15T14:58:26Z Warlock[29A] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:01:56Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:08:55Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:12:12Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:12:21Z Munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T15:13:48Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:15:01Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:15:15Z myfani left #lisp
2016-01-15T15:22:58Z PuercoPop: attila_lendvai: Do you know where can I find cl-dwim authenticated-session that is mentioned here? http://pinterface.livejournal.com/34706.html?thread=77970#t77970 (ql:system-apropos "hu.dwim") doesn't have a clear suspect
2016-01-15T15:23:32Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:24:41Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:26:41Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:28:03Z jasom joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:28:57Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:30:12Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:31:46Z tumdum quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:33:00Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:33:15Z moore33 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:33:20Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:33:26Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:33:32Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:34:35Z eagleflo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:34:41Z AeroNotix quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:35:22Z eagleflo joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:35:33Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T15:35:56Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: http://hub.darcs.net/hu.dwim/hu.dwim.meta-model/browse/source/authentication.lisp#46
2016-01-15T15:36:29Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: defentity is just a define-persistent-class with a few extras
2016-01-15T15:36:42Z vap1 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T15:37:13Z PuercoPop: attila_lendvai: thanks
2016-01-15T15:38:22Z tumdum joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:38:23Z tumdum quit (Changing host)
2016-01-15T15:38:23Z tumdum joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:38:35Z attila_lendvai: heh, I just noticed the hungarian docstrings... :) we used to generate an relatively impressive documentation from the source. it even converted the declarative authorization rules into human language
2016-01-15T15:38:40Z AeroNotix joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:40:34Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:41:02Z vydd joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:41:06Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:41:11Z himmAllRight quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-15T15:45:17Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:45:58Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:46:45Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:48:58Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:49:52Z badkins_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T15:53:42Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:53:55Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T15:54:16Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:02:47Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T16:03:27Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:03:48Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:05:41Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:05:46Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T16:05:46Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-15T16:08:55Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:10:32Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:10:37Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-15T16:10:51Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-15T16:13:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:13:20Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T16:13:50Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T16:16:10Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:19:15Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-15T16:19:49Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:21:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T16:21:40Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:22:39Z badkins_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T16:23:12Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:24:47Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:28:55Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:29:15Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:29:15Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T16:29:31Z ramky quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T16:30:24Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:31:24Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T16:33:36Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T16:46:13Z lnostdal_ is now known as lnostdal
2016-01-15T16:46:48Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-15T16:47:32Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T16:47:40Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:48:09Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-15T16:48:57Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:50:33Z warweasle is now known as warweasle_lunch
2016-01-15T16:52:00Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-15T16:53:45Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T16:53:51Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-15T16:55:53Z sivoais is now known as sivoais-ms
2016-01-15T16:58:53Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:00:51Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:01:01Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-15T17:01:12Z mordocai: Hello beach
2016-01-15T17:01:56Z jackdaniel: o/
2016-01-15T17:03:03Z oleo: evening all
2016-01-15T17:03:43Z beach: Hello oleo.
2016-01-15T17:03:53Z dwchandler: bonjour
2016-01-15T17:03:54Z oleo: heya beach, how are you ?
2016-01-15T17:04:23Z beach: oleo: Oh, OK.  A bit overworked, but hey, that's life.  You?
2016-01-15T17:04:41Z dwchandler: beach: thanks for adding the license :)
2016-01-15T17:04:43Z oleo: oleo: the same as you, otherwise fine
2016-01-15T17:05:13Z contrapunctus: o/
2016-01-15T17:05:19Z beach: dwchandler: Anytime!  Thanks for the encouragement.  I am now doing the same to other project so that I can submit them for inclusion into Quicklisp.
2016-01-15T17:05:58Z lisse quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-15T17:06:21Z dwchandler: beach: is having license specified in the .asd file also needed?
2016-01-15T17:06:41Z dwchandler doesn't know
2016-01-15T17:06:45Z beach: For Quicklisp, yes.  But SICL doesn't have a global .asd file (yet).
2016-01-15T17:07:01Z warweasle_lunch is now known as warweasle
2016-01-15T17:07:23Z beach: And it will be a while still before SICL is available in Quicklisp. :)
2016-01-15T17:07:35Z zacts: https://vimeo.com/151465912
2016-01-15T17:07:41Z zacts: ^ a new lecture by Gerald Jay Sussman
2016-01-15T17:07:54Z zacts: "On flexible systems - the power of generic operations"
2016-01-15T17:08:31Z beach will watch it sometime when he is not listening to music.
2016-01-15T17:09:18Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-15T17:13:42Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-15T17:14:37Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:14:57Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:15:48Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:25:23Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2016-01-15T17:25:23Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:25:23Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2016-01-15T17:25:23Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:27:26Z jsgrant quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T17:30:35Z loke``` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T17:31:23Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:31:47Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T17:33:19Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T17:34:51Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T17:35:02Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T17:35:46Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:39:06Z fiveop joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:40:18Z igam: https://vimeo.com/151465912 funny it's almost the same digits as in pi: 3.14159265 :-)
2016-01-15T17:41:17Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:44:47Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:45:20Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-15T17:46:14Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-15T17:46:25Z igam quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T17:47:36Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:00:20Z hiroakip quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-15T18:04:50Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-15T18:09:09Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T18:10:40Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:11:11Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:13:20Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:15:21Z eudoxia quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-15T18:15:26Z contrapunctus quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T18:15:34Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T18:19:21Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:19:30Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:23:49Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:25:19Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-15T18:27:09Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-15T18:29:20Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T18:29:48Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:33:00Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T18:33:02Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:39:01Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T18:42:09Z rjmacready quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-15T18:45:25Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:48:10Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:54:08Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T18:55:36Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-15T18:57:02Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T18:57:32Z bogwonch quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T18:58:39Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-15T19:00:52Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T19:04:28Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-15T19:06:12Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-15T19:06:35Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:07:38Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:07:45Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:09:24Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T19:14:02Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T19:16:18Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T19:16:27Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T19:17:56Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T19:17:56Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:18:19Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T19:18:45Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:19:11Z pjb` joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:19:21Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:19:23Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:20:57Z fiveop quit
2016-01-15T19:21:00Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T19:21:02Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:23:33Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T19:23:50Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:24:23Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:24:54Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:25:55Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T19:29:30Z eta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:33:06Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T19:33:30Z eta: clisp still needs a maintainer, right?
2016-01-15T19:34:10Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:36:21Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:40:06Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T19:41:58Z jackdaniel: eta: right
2016-01-15T19:43:02Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:43:23Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:43:25Z p_l quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T19:44:59Z m0li quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-15T19:45:11Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:47:43Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-15T19:49:19Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T19:50:37Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-15T19:53:19Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T19:53:24Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T19:54:10Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:01:29Z slyrus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T20:01:44Z m0li quit (Quit: (Lisper for ever \o/!!!))
2016-01-15T20:02:45Z ggole quit
2016-01-15T20:04:11Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:06:13Z em1l joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:06:48Z sivoais-ms is now known as sivoais
2016-01-15T20:06:53Z pjb`: eta: yes, clisp still needs a maintainer.
2016-01-15T20:07:10Z pjb`: I won't be able to consider becoming maintainer before six months at least.
2016-01-15T20:07:13Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2016-01-15T20:11:05Z em1l: i don't get, how to access a slot-value programmatically in sbcl. I am trying to get a (slot-value *from-a-object-instance* 'via-this-slotname), but given the string "via-this-slotname" i cannot manage to get the value returned. Any advice?
2016-01-15T20:12:48Z flip214: em1l: given the string, get to the *symbol. (slot-value *obj* (intern "slotname-as-string")), perhaps giving the right package to INTERN.
2016-01-15T20:12:53Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-15T20:13:05Z flip214: or, even better, don't bother with the string, use the symbol directly!
2016-01-15T20:13:18Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:13:32Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T20:13:39Z H4ns: em1l: if you write 'via-this-slotname, you don't necessarily get the same symbol as the one that names your slot.
2016-01-15T20:13:40Z flip214: if the slot is named SLOT1 you can do (let ((slot-name 'slot1)) (slot-value *obj* slot-name))
2016-01-15T20:14:19Z H4ns: em1l: if the class is defined in a different package, you'll need to qualify the slot name as in 'the-other-package::via-this-slotname
2016-01-15T20:14:48Z H4ns: em1l: you'll probably want to export the slot name, or better yet, access the slot only through an accessor rather than directly.
2016-01-15T20:15:23Z H4ns: em1l: i'm offering this as an alternative way of saying what flip214 in case what he says makes no sense to you.  or the other way round :)
2016-01-15T20:15:23Z em1l: I am already trying to define some function like this: (defun change-slot (slot-name val *object*) (slot-value *object* (intern slot-name))). It won't find the slot 'slot-value as it is :|slot-value| . If it's uppercased, :SLOT-VALUE does not match a slot-value..
2016-01-15T20:15:58Z H4ns: em1l: maybe you should just read practical common lisp and follow the style prescribed there.
2016-01-15T20:16:16Z H4ns: em1l: if you use intern for that kind of stuff, you're doing it wrong.
2016-01-15T20:18:59Z pjb: em1l: having one string is not enough to identify a slot.
2016-01-15T20:19:05Z em1l: H4ns: thx for the advice! I read it already and trying it real world now, but i guess my use case is weird. Thought I could use INTERN in the same way flip214 (thx!) suggested?
2016-01-15T20:19:06Z pjb: em1l: you need TWO strings.
2016-01-15T20:19:14Z pjb: em1l: you need ONE package name, and ONE symbol name.
2016-01-15T20:19:28Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:19:41Z pjb: em1l: and this can work only if the symbol naming the slot HAS a package.
2016-01-15T20:19:44Z H4ns: em1l: why do you want to use a string to name a slot in the first place?
2016-01-15T20:20:00Z pjb: em1l: otherwise, you're f....d.
2016-01-15T20:20:49Z H4ns: em1l: but if you absolutely must do it, then you'd use (find-symbol (string-upcase the-slot-name) the-package-in-which-the-slot-is-defined)
2016-01-15T20:21:04Z pjb: em1l: so, with two strings: (let ((package-name "CL-USER") (symbol-name "VIA-THIS-SLOTNAME")) #| you would do: |# (slot-value *from-a-object-instance* (intern symbol-name package-name)))
2016-01-15T20:21:41Z sebboh: jasom, I think you can make something transistor-like out of a differential gear (the kind in an automobile transmission.)
2016-01-15T20:21:51Z em1l: pjb: i am working in the same package. I am playing with lucerne, so i am getting some strings from http-post-data. i want to update some slots-via this method..
2016-01-15T20:22:00Z flip214: H4ns: does INTERN take a string as package specification directly?
2016-01-15T20:22:31Z flip214: I believe that FIND-PACKAGE is needed, too!?
2016-01-15T20:22:33Z pjb: em1l: it is not prudent to use INTERN directly on data you get from the exterior.  You should instead use a map from strings to slot names.
2016-01-15T20:22:47Z pjb: em1l: so that you may control what slots are accessed from the external entity.
2016-01-15T20:23:01Z H4ns: flip214: intern accepts a package designator as package argument, and a string is such a package designator.
2016-01-15T20:23:14Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T20:23:18Z pjb: flip214: it takes a package designator; so, a character, a symbol, a string, or a package.
2016-01-15T20:24:00Z H4ns: flip214: intern is the wrong tool.  you can't ever have a slot named by a symbol that did not previously exist.  if you absolutely need to lookup a slot name at run time, find-symbol is what you'd use.
2016-01-15T20:24:01Z eta quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-15T20:26:58Z flip214: hmmm, my cltl2 reads to me differently - with terms "package" vs. "package name". but never mind, have a nice weekend!
2016-01-15T20:28:41Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:30:24Z H4ns: this is why you refer to the spec, not to cltl2
2016-01-15T20:30:49Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:31:33Z flip214: clhs intern
2016-01-15T20:31:33Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intern.htm
2016-01-15T20:31:35Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T20:31:47Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T20:31:57Z flip214: I'll need to find a tarball or so of the CLHS, I guess.
2016-01-15T20:32:05Z zadock joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:32:55Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-15T20:33:57Z em1l: H4ns: thank you so much, it's working! also big thanks to pjb, both of you for giving me some thoughts to learn :) have a nice friday!
2016-01-15T20:35:10Z rpg: flip214: Look at www.lispworks.com.  It's downloadable.
2016-01-15T20:35:20Z rpg: Also available in Dash if you use that.
2016-01-15T20:40:22Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:41:30Z flip214: rpg: lispworks looks down right now. But I got a copy via SF.
2016-01-15T20:41:34Z flip214: thanks, anyway!
2016-01-15T20:41:47Z flip214: "apt-get install hyperspec" would've used lispworks, too.
2016-01-15T20:41:49Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T20:46:04Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:46:35Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T20:50:04Z moore33 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T20:51:25Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-15T20:51:46Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:53:06Z dim: stumbled on (thx twitter) https://github.com/mshang/python-elevator-challenge ; do we have anything like python doctest?
2016-01-15T20:54:17Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T20:57:19Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-15T20:58:44Z freehck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T21:02:46Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T21:02:46Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-15T21:03:24Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:04:11Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2016-01-15T21:04:38Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:07:18Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:07:19Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:07:20Z emaczen joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:08:19Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T21:09:30Z jayne_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:09:35Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:09:53Z mdemont quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T21:11:23Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-15T21:11:30Z jayne quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-15T21:12:39Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:14:10Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:14:15Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T21:21:44Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-15T21:27:41Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:29:37Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-15T21:29:59Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:32:36Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T21:33:11Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-15T21:38:42Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:39:16Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:39:41Z Mitzelflick: Is there a lisp tool for doing scripty things like bash does but with lisp panache?
2016-01-15T21:43:24Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T21:44:12Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T21:44:59Z dwchandler: Mitzelflick: like myscript.lisp with "#!/usr/bin/sbcl --script" as the first line?
2016-01-15T21:45:40Z dwchandler: CLisp supports something similar, I believe
2016-01-15T21:46:16Z Yanez: Mitzelflick: I sometimes write simple scripts in clisp, it's very easy and clisp startup is pretty fast
2016-01-15T21:46:53Z Mitzelflick: ya?
2016-01-15T21:47:03Z Mitzelflick: here is an interesting one:
2016-01-15T21:47:08Z jasom: Mitzelflick: see https://github.com/fare/cl-scripting
2016-01-15T21:47:18Z Yanez: I also used it as a replacement for GCI scripts, in web applications
2016-01-15T21:47:19Z Mitzelflick: I wanted to time moving a 500M file to 12 vmware arrays mounted on  linux node
2016-01-15T21:47:47Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:47:52Z Mitzelflick: I wrote a bash program to move the file and capture from time (somebash)  the readout, using 2>>myfile
2016-01-15T21:47:59Z badkins_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T21:48:05Z Mitzelflick: can lisp gather info from linux like that?
2016-01-15T21:48:32Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-15T21:48:45Z jasom: Mitzelflick: something like: (time (uiop:run-program "command-to-copy-file"))
2016-01-15T21:49:25Z Mitzelflick: very nice!
2016-01-15T21:49:50Z Mitzelflick: so there is no reason to think of bash as easy and lisp as too complex
2016-01-15T21:50:29Z jasom: Mitzelflick: or if you want it to return the time you could write a macro to do something like (let ((start-time (get-internal-real-time))) stuff (/ (- (get-internal-real-time) start-time) internal-time-units-per-second)))
2016-01-15T21:51:49Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-15T21:54:27Z Mitzelflick: like have lisp itself count time?
2016-01-15T21:54:30Z Mitzelflick: woa
2016-01-15T21:54:43Z dwchandler: Mitzelflick: bash is easy because whatever you type into the command line can become a script. the more complex you get, the less "easy" bash gets. But lisp is fully featured :)
2016-01-15T21:54:50Z Mitzelflick: lisp is making me think previously impossible thoughts!
2016-01-15T21:55:14Z jasom: Mitzelflick: http://paste.lisp.org/display/305173
2016-01-15T21:55:38Z Mitzelflick: can a web site then be simply some abstractions to make forms, a lib or 2 to spit out nice pages, and a bunch of evergrowing lists with the data?
2016-01-15T21:55:57Z Mitzelflick: I guess then ram runs out and swap kills
2016-01-15T21:56:49Z Mitzelflick: woa
2016-01-15T21:56:52Z Mitzelflick: with-time
2016-01-15T21:56:56Z Mitzelflick: does it work?
2016-01-15T21:57:07Z jasom: Mitzelflick: the comments are the actual output from the repl
2016-01-15T21:57:33Z Mitzelflick: !
2016-01-15T21:57:51Z Mitzelflick: why 26/5?
2016-01-15T21:57:58Z Mitzelflick: 5.2?
2016-01-15T21:58:12Z jasom: because I only used integers, so division produces a rational
2016-01-15T21:58:26Z jasom: if I had coerced to a float it would have said 5.2
2016-01-15T21:58:39Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-15T21:58:46Z Mitzelflick: so that literally ran sleep 5.2? and returned?
2016-01-15T21:59:03Z jasom: and it returned the wall-clock time that running (sleep 5.2) happened
2016-01-15T21:59:12Z Mitzelflick: oh I get it, its time matches the sleep 5.2 bash command
2016-01-15T21:59:12Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-15T21:59:12Z Mitzelflick: ok
2016-01-15T21:59:15Z Mitzelflick: im slow today
2016-01-15T21:59:27Z Mitzelflick: nice!!!
2016-01-15T22:00:24Z jasom: (float (with-time (uiop:run-program "dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/null bs=1024 count=1024"))) ;; => 0.061
2016-01-15T22:00:44Z jasom: so it took about 61ms of wall-clock time to copy 1MB from /dev/urandom to /dev/null
2016-01-15T22:02:02Z jasom: measuring CPU time of spawned programs is somewhat more complicated, but for copying files you are often not cpu bound, so this should be fine for your example use case of timing a file copy
2016-01-15T22:06:13Z Mitzelflick quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-15T22:06:18Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-15T22:06:33Z ralt: jasom: parsing the output of dd is probably more useful there though
2016-01-15T22:06:59Z jasom: ralt: yes, but this was a simple example of timing a shell command
2016-01-15T22:07:08Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T22:08:15Z jasom: here's an even simpler example that yields the time it takes to run a system shell that just sleeps for 3 seconds: (round (with-time (uiop:run-program "sleep 3")) 1/1000)
2016-01-15T22:08:28Z jasom: 3011ms in my case
2016-01-15T22:09:04Z ralt: also... why not just (time)?
2016-01-15T22:09:20Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T22:10:27Z ralt: jasom: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/m_time.htm
2016-01-15T22:11:14Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-15T22:14:05Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-15T22:15:10Z mordocai: ralt: implementation specific what you get and more data than just the real time it took which was the thing the OP wanted.
2016-01-15T22:19:04Z jasom: ralt: time doesn't return the time
2016-01-15T22:20:06Z jasom: (time (uiop:run-program "sleep 3")) ;; => NIL
2016-01-15T22:20:09Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-15T22:20:55Z mordocai: jasom: To be fair, that works on sbcl.
2016-01-15T22:21:02Z mordocai: At least on my machine
2016-01-15T22:21:13Z jasom: mordocai: what do you mean?
2016-01-15T22:21:17Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-15T22:21:31Z mordocai: jasom: Ah, i see what you meant. It doesn't return the time it outputs it
2016-01-15T22:21:38Z jasom: mordocai: right
2016-01-15T22:26:57Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-15T22:28:06Z badkins_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T22:28:51Z ralt: jasom mordocai: hm, (time) expands to (call-with-timing ...) on my sbcl
2016-01-15T22:29:31Z ralt: call-with-timing takes 2 args: the first is a function that will have (among others) the user-time-ms argument, and the 2nd is the function to time
2016-01-15T22:29:35Z jasom: ralt: yeah, I was in cl-user on sbcl which is why I named my function call-with-time instead of call-with-timing
2016-01-15T22:32:41Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-15T22:33:19Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-15T22:38:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-15T22:38:37Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-15T22:38:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-15T22:40:35Z papachan is now known as papachan_
2016-01-15T22:42:50Z wagesofskin joined #lisp
2016-01-15T22:43:02Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T22:44:13Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-15T22:49:39Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-15T22:53:08Z heddwch is now known as ponit
2016-01-15T22:53:14Z ponit is now known as heddwch
2016-01-15T22:54:04Z wagesofskin quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-15T22:56:08Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T22:57:50Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T22:59:48Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T22:59:53Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:01:49Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T23:06:28Z drmeister: What's the difference between a type-error and a simple-type-error?
2016-01-15T23:06:29Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:06:33Z drmeister: clhs simple-type-error
2016-01-15T23:06:33Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/e_smp_tp.htm
2016-01-15T23:06:37Z drmeister: clhs type-error
2016-01-15T23:06:38Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/e_tp_err.htm
2016-01-15T23:07:18Z drmeister: How does a simple-type-error get invoked?
2016-01-15T23:08:27Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-15T23:08:54Z drmeister: I see that if I call (ERROR "a string") it will signal a simple error
2016-01-15T23:09:07Z eta joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:09:14Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T23:09:19Z Bike: "simple" in a condition name means it's signaled by something that takes format arguments
2016-01-15T23:09:29Z drmeister: From what I read if I call (SIGNAL "a string") it will signal a simple condition.
2016-01-15T23:09:32Z Bike: for simple-type-error, i think that's check-type at least, maybe something else
2016-01-15T23:09:35Z drmeister: simple-condition
2016-01-15T23:09:47Z Bike: er. nope.
2016-01-15T23:10:17Z drmeister: Yeah, check-type doesn't say anything about simple-type-error
2016-01-15T23:11:53Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:12:25Z Bike: you can use it internally, if nothing else.
2016-01-15T23:13:07Z drmeister: Would I use (error simple-type-error :format-control "something" :format-arguments nil :expected-type foo :datum bar)
2016-01-15T23:13:28Z drmeister: That's actually where I'm going with this - how do I set up the call to ERROR for a simple-type-error.
2016-01-15T23:13:32Z Bike: you could, yes.
2016-01-15T23:13:55Z Bike: sbcl has sb-int:bad-type which is a function to do that.
2016-01-15T23:15:44Z drmeister: So I would provide the :format-control and :format-arguments keyword arguments?
2016-01-15T23:16:02Z drmeister: Internally within Clasp there is a bit of confusion about this.
2016-01-15T23:17:00Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T23:17:25Z drmeister: I guess anything that inherits from simple-condition can initialize the :format-control and :format-arguments fields.
2016-01-15T23:17:25Z Bike: you would, yeah.
2016-01-15T23:17:31Z Bike: indeed so.
2016-01-15T23:17:48Z drmeister: Ok, I think that resolves my confusion.
2016-01-15T23:18:58Z Bike: and, looking back, check-type more or less signals aa simple type error with a fromat like ("~s is not of type ~s" datum (or string (make-string-from-type expected-type)))
2016-01-15T23:19:11Z Bike: string being the argument to check-type, make-string-from-type being made up
2016-01-15T23:19:17Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-15T23:22:25Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T23:23:28Z alex``` joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:24:09Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:25:26Z PuercoPop: jackdaniel: I left you an answer in SO. In addition to the libraries I linked to, I have incipient code for extending CLOS for Crud web apps if you are interested
2016-01-15T23:27:51Z alex``` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-15T23:34:22Z lisper29 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-15T23:35:18Z Bike_ joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:36:20Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-15T23:36:40Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T23:36:40Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:38:40Z Bike_ is now known as Bike
2016-01-15T23:39:56Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-15T23:40:11Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-15T23:42:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T23:44:18Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:47:35Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-15T23:48:04Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-15T23:50:00Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-15T23:50:16Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:51:24Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-15T23:55:12Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-15T23:57:13Z alex``` joined #lisp
2016-01-16T00:02:04Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-16T00:02:07Z alex``` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T00:02:51Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T00:04:43Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-16T00:13:14Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-16T00:18:29Z 5EXAAQT91 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T00:18:29Z 6A4ABOQ50 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T00:24:16Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-16T00:24:20Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-16T00:24:45Z sweater is now known as Guest56817
2016-01-16T00:26:26Z GGMethos quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T00:31:04Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T00:31:18Z jayne_ is now known as jayne
2016-01-16T00:32:40Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-16T00:40:26Z 5EXAAQT91 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T00:40:27Z 6A4ABOQ50 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T00:40:40Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-16T00:50:31Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-16T00:51:33Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-16T00:52:13Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T00:54:38Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T00:54:47Z GGMethos joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:04:36Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:14:38Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:19:55Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-16T01:20:53Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:23:38Z em1l quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-16T01:24:25Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:26:22Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:26:47Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T01:28:11Z BIGBOOMBA joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:30:11Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-16T01:30:13Z BIGBOOMBA: Trying to put a basic UI on a gin-rummy engine I wrote. Just a loop that looks at the game state and gets the next decision from the user, e.g., (princ "Enter card to discard: ") ... (read-line)
2016-01-16T01:30:56Z BIGBOOMBA: The only issue is the chatter that is produced in the REPL: user enters, say, "3h", and (read-line) prints that out as its return value. How do I suppress that so that it's cleaner?
2016-01-16T01:31:47Z BIGBOOMBA: I have the Land of Lisp text-engine chapter open in another tab, and I'm trying to go back through it and see how he set it up.
2016-01-16T01:33:09Z BIGBOOMBA: Hmm, maybe I need to assign the value of (read-line) to a local variable and then return that to the caller of the user-prompting function, so that the value of the user-prompting function isn't the string entered by the user.
2016-01-16T01:33:26Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T01:34:29Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:34:46Z BIGBOOMBA: Okay, that gets SLIME to just print the string entered by the user instead of that string, a newline, and then NIL, but still not there.
2016-01-16T01:35:19Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:37:25Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:38:39Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-16T01:40:17Z em1l joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:42:02Z BIGBOOMBA: Ah...in the output he gives for his examples, he is omitting the REPL chatter...
2016-01-16T01:51:45Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:53:15Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T01:55:46Z BIGBOOMBA: Nevermind, I'm pretty sure the REPL will only spit out some value at the very end of the game
2016-01-16T01:56:00Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-16T01:57:09Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-16T02:03:13Z malbertife_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T02:04:22Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-16T02:05:46Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-16T02:08:09Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T02:08:18Z Oladon1 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T02:08:31Z Oladon quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-16T02:08:33Z Oladon1 is now known as Oladon
2016-01-16T02:08:55Z wglb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T02:08:55Z ieure quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T02:09:04Z wglb joined #lisp
2016-01-16T02:09:35Z msmith quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T02:10:15Z msmith joined #lisp
2016-01-16T02:10:35Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T02:13:55Z ieure joined #lisp
2016-01-16T02:14:51Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T02:25:09Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T02:27:26Z zcm quit (Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite!)
2016-01-16T02:28:12Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T02:31:59Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-16T02:33:08Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T02:34:26Z m_zr0_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-16T02:35:25Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2016-01-16T02:45:47Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T02:46:43Z BIGBOOMBA quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-16T02:49:19Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T02:58:51Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-16T03:00:43Z harish quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-16T03:06:02Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-16T03:07:04Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-16T03:23:55Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T03:25:24Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-16T03:25:35Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-16T03:35:26Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-16T03:38:26Z em1l quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T03:40:40Z UtkarshRay quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-16T03:46:05Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-16T03:48:44Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T03:52:39Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-16T04:12:31Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:12:56Z pyx joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:15:46Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T04:18:12Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:18:20Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-16T04:18:42Z NeverDie_ is now known as NeverDie
2016-01-16T04:19:10Z zch: It's a wonderful night indeed, beach
2016-01-16T04:20:20Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T04:20:35Z Sando quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T04:20:45Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:22:20Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:25:13Z namra joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:25:52Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:25:59Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-16T04:28:54Z pyx quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-16T04:33:47Z zongnanhu joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:35:08Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:35:21Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-16T04:39:58Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:51:17Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T04:55:53Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-16T04:56:27Z aptenodyte joined #lisp
2016-01-16T04:57:41Z aptenodyte: does anyone know what the status of mocl is? It seems like such a cool compiler, and I always thought about trying it out, but they haven't updated in a bit. It'd be a shame if the project died.
2016-01-16T04:59:24Z beach: What is "cool" about it?
2016-01-16T05:00:09Z aptenodyte: oh, I just mean being able to write CL apps directly for Android / iOS, that played nicely with their SDKs
2016-01-16T05:00:47Z goru joined #lisp
2016-01-16T05:01:31Z vaporatorius quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-16T05:07:02Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T05:09:43Z namra quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2016-01-16T05:17:56Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-16T05:29:11Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T05:34:08Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T05:39:13Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-16T05:41:02Z drmeister: Hi beach.
2016-01-16T05:44:08Z namra joined #lisp
2016-01-16T05:45:15Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-16T05:47:53Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2016-01-16T05:48:45Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-16T05:49:07Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T05:52:21Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-16T05:54:53Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-16T05:57:05Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-16T05:58:52Z defaultxr quit (Quit: defaultxr)
2016-01-16T05:59:11Z Fyodosto quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-16T06:00:17Z p_l joined #lisp
2016-01-16T06:00:36Z beach: drmeister: I will try to deal with the issues you found sometime today.
2016-01-16T06:00:47Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-16T06:01:23Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-16T06:02:08Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-16T06:02:23Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-16T06:05:39Z drmeister: beach: I wanted to ask if I can still pull sicl.  It's been months since I pulled it.  Have there been any changes that will break much?
2016-01-16T06:09:36Z beach: Nothing should break.
2016-01-16T06:09:46Z beach: And if it does, I'll be here to help out.
2016-01-16T06:21:08Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-16T06:24:22Z JokesOnYou77 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T06:24:26Z JokesOnYou77: Hi all
2016-01-16T06:27:44Z JokesOnYou77: I'm trying to get a function with this contract: (func '(a b c) d)  ==> (c(b(a(d)))  I really thought I had something with (reduce (lambda (x y) (funcall y x) func-list :initial-value init)  but it's complaining that the final value isn't a list, which seems odd.
2016-01-16T06:28:51Z JokesOnYou77: P.S. I think I may have asked a similar question a few months ago, been very happy with the perfectly good response, used it, and then immediately forgotten it.
2016-01-16T06:33:30Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-16T06:33:31Z beach: JokesOnYou77: Do you mean that A, B, and C are names of functions in the global environment?
2016-01-16T06:33:35Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2016-01-16T06:33:50Z JokesOnYou77: yes
2016-01-16T06:33:59Z beach: JokesOnYou77: And D is not quoted, so what is its value?
2016-01-16T06:36:19Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-16T06:36:39Z beach: JokesOnYou77: And what is INIT in your attempted solution?
2016-01-16T06:37:13Z JokesOnYou77: Could be anything.  But for an example: (my_func  (list #'(lambda (a) (apply #'+ a)) #'write-to-string) '(1 2)) ==> "3"
2016-01-16T06:37:29Z JokesOnYou77: Wait, I got it!  (reduce #'(lambda (x y) (funcall y x)) (list #'(lambda (a) (apply #'+ a)) #'write-to-string) :initial-value '(1 2))
2016-01-16T06:38:03Z beach: You understand that (c (b (a (d)))) means that you call d as a function.
2016-01-16T06:38:09Z beach: That's why I was wondering about it.
2016-01-16T06:38:47Z JokesOnYou77: Yes, but what I just posted seems to work. So now I'm wondering, why?
2016-01-16T06:38:48Z beach: But '(1 2) does not evaluate to a function.
2016-01-16T06:38:56Z JokesOnYou77: try it
2016-01-16T06:39:26Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-16T06:40:08Z beach: I am saying your explanation of the contract is weird, incomplete, and also wrong.
2016-01-16T06:41:07Z JokesOnYou77: (defun transformer (transformers doc) (reduce (lambda (x y) (funcall y x)) transformers :initial-value doc))
2016-01-16T06:41:21Z JokesOnYou77: How should I fix it to make it both clearer and more accurate?
2016-01-16T06:42:01Z beach: How should I know.
2016-01-16T06:42:05Z JokesOnYou77: Ahh, too much time with python.  (c(b(a d))
2016-01-16T06:42:24Z beach: I don't know what you are trying to do, and your explanation of the contract is weird, incomplete, and wrong.
2016-01-16T06:42:33Z beach: For example, you said that a, b, and c are defined as functions in the global environment, then you create a list of first-class functions with no definition in the global environment.
2016-01-16T06:42:45Z beach: Whereas in your contract, the symbols a, b, and c are quoted.
2016-01-16T06:42:56Z zongnanh` joined #lisp
2016-01-16T06:43:09Z beach: Which is why I asked whether they are symbols that name functions.
2016-01-16T06:43:25Z beach: You said yes, and then submitted a test that does not correspond to your description.
2016-01-16T06:44:55Z zongnanhu quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T06:46:15Z drmeister: beach: Thank you
2016-01-16T06:48:37Z JokesOnYou77: This is a misunderstanding on my part.  And thank you for pointing it out.  Let's assume the test I put forward corresponds to the desired behavior.  Can you help me define the contract?
2016-01-16T06:48:57Z aptenodyte quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-16T06:50:33Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T06:50:34Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-16T06:55:44Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T06:56:34Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:03:44Z zongnanh` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T07:08:19Z beach: JokesOnYou77: "I need a function that takes two arguments.  The first argument is a list of functions, and the second argument is any value.  The function should return the result of applying the composition of all the function in the list to the second argument, with the first function in the list being applied first.
2016-01-16T07:08:20Z beach: "
2016-01-16T07:10:26Z bluedreams joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:10:34Z beach: JokesOnYou77: You might even specify that each of the functions in the list can be applied to a single argument.
2016-01-16T07:12:05Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:12:12Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:12:26Z JokesOnYou77: beach, Thank you very much.  That was clarifying.  I shouldn't have muddied the waters with quotes, especially when I clearly don't understand the full meaning.
2016-01-16T07:12:42Z beach: Exactly.
2016-01-16T07:14:23Z JokesOnYou77: Thanks again.  I love this channel.  :)
2016-01-16T07:14:33Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:14:53Z kaleun joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:20:39Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T07:23:45Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:27:35Z malbertife_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-16T07:27:43Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T07:28:05Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:30:27Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:30:53Z moore33: Howdy
2016-01-16T07:32:36Z malbertife quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T07:32:47Z beach: Hello moore33.
2016-01-16T07:33:32Z beach will be back in 20 minutes or so.
2016-01-16T07:35:07Z moore33: beach: I've had a productive couple of weeks working on LPSG. I next need to add the possibility of deleting graphic objects; after that it might be usable for real code.
2016-01-16T07:35:26Z moore33: Fun stuff
2016-01-16T07:39:56Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:49:44Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-16T07:51:15Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-16T07:53:22Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-16T07:55:23Z beach: Excellent!
2016-01-16T07:55:34Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-16T07:57:09Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-16T08:02:04Z kaleun quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T08:04:41Z beach: moore33: I am a bit uncomfortable about all this GUI backend stuff, mainly because of my ignorance.  On the one hand, X11/CLX is what I have on my machine.  On the other hand, everybody says it is outdated and must be replaced.
2016-01-16T08:04:42Z beach: But then I hear that OpenGL still uses X11 for communication, and that we still need X11 for input.  Perhaps we need a more abstract backend layer that can then translate events and requests to every possible combination of concrete backends?
2016-01-16T08:05:25Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-16T08:06:43Z beach: Oh, and not to mention the FFI problem.  I was very comfortable with CLX because it uses a minimal amount of code in some language other than Common Lisp.  But then you told me that progress requires using MORE FFI rather than less.
2016-01-16T08:07:39Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-16T08:08:20Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-16T08:08:58Z moore33: OpenGL, at least when used locally, uses a little part of X (these days potentially even less) to initialize and destroy graphics, swap buffers, etc.
2016-01-16T08:10:16Z moore33: That part is very similar to what is done on Windows, Mac, Android, etc.
2016-01-16T08:11:03Z moore33: Input is a different story and is the more complicated backend piece, IMHO.
2016-01-16T08:11:41Z moore33: beach: We need to have dinner and bore our spouses with this.
2016-01-16T08:14:02Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-16T08:14:45Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T08:15:11Z beach: Good plan!
2016-01-16T08:16:26Z moore33: But yeah, OpenGL means a certain amount of FFI.
2016-01-16T08:16:46Z beach doesn't understand why.
2016-01-16T08:17:13Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T08:17:18Z moore33: Not hugely complicated, but I will need to dick around with finalization and stuff.
2016-01-16T08:17:24Z beach: I mean, I can understand why it is currently the option with the lowest effort, but I can't understand why it must be so.
2016-01-16T08:18:01Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-16T08:18:21Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-16T08:18:48Z moore33: beach: Just to make the calls. I suppose another option is to write your own driver that exposes undocumented GPU internals to Lisp, but my life is to short for that:)
2016-01-16T08:19:45Z moore33: too short
2016-01-16T08:19:47Z beach: So you are saying that we must rely on the foreign code supplied by GPU makers?
2016-01-16T08:19:58Z beach: Hmm.
2016-01-16T08:20:18Z beach: Double hmm.  If so, this is not a great situation at all.
2016-01-16T08:23:53Z moore33: Pretty much. But it doesn't seem too diiferent from calling into e.g. the Linux abi.
2016-01-16T08:24:46Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T08:25:36Z moore33: Gotta walk Zep; bbl
2016-01-16T08:29:21Z beach: OK, different way of asking the question: What does an FSF certifiably-free GNU/Linux distribution do for graphics?
2016-01-16T08:36:28Z brucem: run on a tiny subset of hardware with poor graphics.
2016-01-16T08:36:39Z brucem: (about half serious)
2016-01-16T08:37:37Z jackdaniel: PuercoPop: thanks :)
2016-01-16T08:37:48Z beach: brucem: So, such a distribution would just not install unless the computed had the right hardware?
2016-01-16T08:38:19Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-16T08:38:47Z jackdaniel: good morning all o/
2016-01-16T08:38:55Z beach: Hello jackdaniel.
2016-01-16T08:39:09Z brucem: beach: No idea. Intel has open source drivers. Others have drivers that were reverse engineered, but usually aren't great. AMD has done some work, but I think they're pretty much still far behind what proprietary drivers do.
2016-01-16T08:39:31Z beach: brucem: OK, thanks.
2016-01-16T08:39:36Z beach: Sorry for my ignorance.
2016-01-16T08:39:52Z brucem: beach: but this is a multi-decade problem that really doesn't show much sign of being resolved.
2016-01-16T08:40:11Z beach: Yes, I see.
2016-01-16T08:43:10Z brucem: beach: If you're going to aim for that level of purity, you might be best off targeting something like the Raspberry Pi which has had the graphics stack opened up, IIRC.
2016-01-16T08:44:20Z tessier quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-16T08:44:54Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-16T08:45:03Z beach: It sounds to me like we need an intermediate abstraction layer that can use proprietary FFI drivers when the user wants to and that can use other means (possibly with poor graphics or poor performance) when that is preferable.
2016-01-16T08:45:10Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-16T08:46:07Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T08:46:44Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-16T08:53:32Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-16T08:55:00Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T08:57:03Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-16T09:21:48Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-16T09:23:21Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-16T09:24:00Z tessier quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T09:30:26Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-16T09:30:53Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-16T09:32:31Z moore33: Popping back in, (at least the first gen) RasberryPi has a very closed graphics stack.
2016-01-16T09:33:26Z bluedreams quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T09:33:43Z moore33: Anyway, I thought the trend with the latest cool Lisp work was better interop with C/C++? Ffi or not seems like a small detail.
2016-01-16T09:34:07Z moore33:  Bbl
2016-01-16T09:34:39Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T09:44:27Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-16T09:45:58Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-16T09:50:28Z eMBee quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T09:50:49Z eMBee joined #lisp
2016-01-16T09:53:15Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-16T09:54:11Z tessier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-16T09:54:54Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-16T09:54:54Z tessier quit (Changing host)
2016-01-16T09:54:54Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-16T09:56:17Z bluedreams joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:02:54Z beach: moore33: I am sure what you are doing is great.  I didn't mean to sound unappreciative.  Sorry if I did.
2016-01-16T10:04:31Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-16T10:06:35Z bluedreams quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T10:07:15Z salv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T10:07:34Z moore33: No offense taken!
2016-01-16T10:07:47Z beach: Whew!
2016-01-16T10:23:25Z zch quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-16T10:23:50Z moore33: Thing is, I eventually want to use a huge geometry kernel written in C++... gonna have to come to terms with that.
2016-01-16T10:25:41Z moore33: bbl, again
2016-01-16T10:26:35Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-16T10:28:59Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T10:29:46Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:32:10Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:36:27Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:37:42Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-16T10:38:15Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:38:16Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:39:03Z knobo joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:41:18Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:47:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:47:02Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-16T10:47:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:50:16Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T10:52:35Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:53:18Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-16T10:55:33Z Qudit314159 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:00:13Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:02:35Z bluedreams joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:03:21Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:03:34Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:04:16Z Ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:05:31Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:07:21Z iskander quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-16T11:07:38Z bluedreams quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T11:08:21Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:09:15Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:15:52Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T11:22:04Z Th30n_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:25:31Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T11:32:52Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:37:00Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-16T11:37:13Z tailslide joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:38:07Z psy joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:41:38Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:46:09Z m0li quit (Quit: happy weekend)
2016-01-16T11:46:57Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:48:30Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-16T11:50:48Z zch quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-16T11:51:36Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T11:55:13Z tailslide quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-16T12:03:50Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:07:50Z Th30n_ is now known as Th30n
2016-01-16T12:11:14Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T12:12:20Z |3b|: beach: a really serious FSF OS uses custom (or at least uncommon) hardware to avoid binary firmware blobs. More practical ones have in the past used reverse engineered graphics drivers, though graphics card vendors are getting better at contributing to open source drivers. I think at this point intel only have open source drivers on linux, while amd and nvidia have varying amounts of support for open source drivers
2016-01-16T12:13:54Z |3b|: but as far as i know, a high-end intel graphics chip is comparable to a low-end nvidia/amd chip (but probably lower power)
2016-01-16T12:14:00Z beach: |3b|: Got it, thanks!
2016-01-16T12:14:36Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-16T12:15:48Z ITECF125 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:15:50Z |3b|: and GPU vendors are a lot more likely than CPU vendors to completely scrap backwards compatibility at the hardware level every few years, so trying to keep up with them with limited resources is probably not the most effective use of time
2016-01-16T12:16:56Z |3b|: (also, OS tend to not give you access in the first place, so you'd need to get to the lispos stage to even try anyway)
2016-01-16T12:18:45Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:19:30Z |3b|: it is at least theoretically possible to continue using X protocol to talk to GL, but i suspect it would limit performance quite a bit at least for the sort of things i want to do. harder to say how it would impact something like a GUI.
2016-01-16T12:20:18Z beach: Thanks for making this stuff clearer to me.
2016-01-16T12:20:30Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:23:56Z ITECF125 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-16T12:27:40Z constantmotion joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:29:00Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:29:09Z zch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T12:29:50Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-16T12:30:56Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:32:29Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:36:28Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:38:31Z constantmotion quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-16T12:41:27Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:44:32Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T12:46:35Z gaurav__ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T12:48:29Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-16T12:50:52Z goru quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T12:56:56Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-16T12:59:45Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:03:20Z bluedreams joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:07:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-16T13:08:22Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:09:10Z msmith left #lisp
2016-01-16T13:09:26Z bluedreams quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T13:13:04Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-16T13:13:17Z sz0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T13:13:54Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:13:57Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:16:01Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:18:53Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T13:20:59Z wz1000 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-16T13:22:04Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:28:28Z skbierm joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:29:26Z Ukari quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-16T13:30:57Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-16T13:32:17Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:35:24Z Guest56817 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T13:37:27Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-16T13:56:30Z futpib quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T13:58:11Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:58:21Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-16T13:58:56Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:04:10Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:09:12Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-16T14:09:24Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:09:28Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:12:27Z Sando joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:14:28Z gaurav__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T14:19:45Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:25:31Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:26:08Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T14:26:55Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T14:31:17Z Qudit314159 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T14:32:24Z em1l joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:32:27Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:39:15Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:40:47Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:43:03Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:50:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-16T14:51:41Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T14:53:45Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T15:02:04Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:03:49Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:05:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T15:05:22Z bluedreams joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:07:02Z em1l quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-16T15:08:03Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:10:06Z bluedreams quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T15:17:32Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:25:49Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:25:49Z mvilleneuve quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T15:26:19Z tristero quit (Quit: tristero)
2016-01-16T15:28:33Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:30:36Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-16T15:30:59Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-16T15:31:35Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T15:33:12Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:39:16Z scymtym_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T15:39:36Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:42:19Z tristero joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:42:35Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:42:35Z Mitzelflick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T15:42:52Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:44:13Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:44:41Z owenowen joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:50:26Z alex`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T15:58:07Z Oddity quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T15:58:34Z Mitzelflick: ah lisp
2016-01-16T15:58:38Z Mitzelflick: making life so easy
2016-01-16T15:58:47Z Mitzelflick: if only work would let me switch to lisp
2016-01-16T15:58:54Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-16T15:59:20Z Mitzelflick: oracle and microsoft mafia n ibm
2016-01-16T16:04:20Z manuel___ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:05:51Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T16:05:51Z manuel___ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-16T16:07:36Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T16:10:20Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T16:10:23Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T16:11:11Z bluedreams joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:12:04Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-16T16:12:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:13:04Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:15:12Z NeverDie quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-16T16:15:25Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:16:44Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:20:32Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:22:15Z namra quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2016-01-16T16:24:03Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T16:26:05Z Prion_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T16:27:19Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:27:35Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-16T16:27:55Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:30:34Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-16T16:31:29Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:31:31Z strcmp1 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-16T16:31:43Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:33:37Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:39:16Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T16:40:30Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:45:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:45:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-16T16:45:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:46:55Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T16:50:26Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T16:51:26Z Oddity joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:52:50Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-16T16:52:52Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T16:54:20Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-16T16:55:38Z owenowen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T16:56:43Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:00:33Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:02:40Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:08:15Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:08:38Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T17:09:36Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:11:03Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:14:20Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:14:26Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-16T17:16:25Z heddwch quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in)
2016-01-16T17:16:25Z shikhin quit (Quit: Alas.)
2016-01-16T17:17:13Z heddwch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:17:13Z shikhin joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:18:08Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:18:42Z bluedreams quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:20:29Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:22:12Z bluedreams joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:24:02Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:26:38Z bluedreams quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:27:59Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-16T17:28:28Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:28:58Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:30:35Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:31:26Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:34:46Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:38:04Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:38:06Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T17:38:18Z troydm joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:39:06Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:40:31Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:41:04Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:41:39Z Intensity quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T17:44:32Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T17:45:26Z Intensity joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:45:37Z user121243 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:45:54Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:47:58Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:48:20Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:49:23Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-16T17:49:43Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:49:52Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:51:05Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:51:47Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:52:08Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:53:10Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:54:30Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:54:37Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-16T17:56:15Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T17:56:48Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:00:03Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:01:01Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T18:02:09Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:02:09Z Mitzelflick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T18:02:14Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-16T18:02:23Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:04:12Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:06:06Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T18:10:26Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:11:34Z wlad joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:11:42Z wlad: Hi guys, can someone help me with explaining a difference between two SICP problems?
2016-01-16T18:13:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T18:16:35Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T18:19:29Z Sando quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-16T18:24:01Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:25:27Z lisse quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-16T18:26:04Z Sando joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:27:17Z warweasle quit (Quit: Done)
2016-01-16T18:27:30Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:29:33Z lisper29 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-16T18:31:19Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T18:34:33Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-16T18:35:53Z F-CK-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:38:12Z Bike: wlad: go ahead
2016-01-16T18:38:32Z wlad: Ok, so there're tasks 1.17 and 1.18.  1.18 mentions 1.16, but it isn't very pertinent though. Here's text: http://pastebin.com/Q5S8qbf9
2016-01-16T18:38:43Z wlad: I've solved 1.17, but I'm confused how is it different from what is considered a common answer to 1.18 on the web
2016-01-16T18:38:51Z wlad: 1.17 solution : http://community.schemewiki.org/?sicp-ex-1.17
2016-01-16T18:38:59Z wlad: 1.18: http://community.schemewiki.org/?sicp-ex-1.18
2016-01-16T18:39:11Z wlad: How's adding "accumulator" makes it different in space complexity sense from 1.17?
2016-01-16T18:39:21Z wlad: That's how I've done 1.17: http://pastebin.com/X2DAS6ZL
2016-01-16T18:39:28Z wlad: Given that scheme interpreter performs tail recursion elimination, how's my (or linked) solution for 1.17 different from 1.18?
2016-01-16T18:40:27Z z0d: the first example in 1.17 isn't tail recursive. the bottom one is
2016-01-16T18:40:52Z JokesOnYou77 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-16T18:41:48Z drmeister: How does one set things up so that if *default-pathname-defaults* is set to something other than a pathname an error is signaled?
2016-01-16T18:41:49Z wlad: What's the difference? If we apply "double" like that: (* (double a) (halve b)))
2016-01-16T18:41:54Z wlad: Will it make it tail recursive?
2016-01-16T18:42:24Z cyraxjoe_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:43:04Z z0d: wlad: tail call is that last call. this is the last call in the fist example: (+ a (* a (- b 1)))
2016-01-16T18:43:24Z z0d: and the bottom one: (helper a (- b 1) (+ a product))ú
2016-01-16T18:43:29Z z0d: that is, it calls itself
2016-01-16T18:43:48Z Bike: drmeister: declaim the type, implementation inserts a check on sets based on the declaim
2016-01-16T18:44:05Z wlad: z0d: what about this one: http://pastebin.com/X2DAS6ZL
2016-01-16T18:44:30Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T18:44:45Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T18:45:03Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:46:17Z z0d: wlad: that is tail recursive
2016-01-16T18:46:22Z Bike: wlad: to be a tail call it has to return to the same place the original call does, so to speak. with mul, the odd? branch uses the result of mul in a call to double, so it has a different return point. with the else case, it's the same point
2016-01-16T18:47:24Z wlad: Bike: yeah, at first it was like this: (mul (double x
2016-01-16T18:47:54Z wlad: z0d: So my question still stands: why adding the "accumulator"  turns solution to "iteration-based"?
2016-01-16T18:48:08Z F-CK-1 is now known as Yak-130
2016-01-16T18:48:17Z wlad: If it's tail-recurisve, isn't it automatically considered "iteration-based"?
2016-01-16T18:49:06Z wlad: Bringing "accumulator" in solves absolutely nothing. I mean, I understand that this is not an "official" solution, but as I reckon it's  approved by community...
2016-01-16T18:49:34Z drmeister: Bike: Thanks
2016-01-16T18:49:50Z z0d: wlad: do you understand why the first example in 1.17 is not iterative?
2016-01-16T18:50:05Z xantoz: tail recursion can be implemented using iteration but it's not exactly the same thing conceptually, consider mutual tail recursion with two functions calling each other in the tail position
2016-01-16T18:50:06Z Bike: wlad: what i'm saying is that the odd? branch isn't tail recursive.
2016-01-16T18:50:19Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-16T18:50:20Z wlad: z0d: as for the first: because it's not tail-recursive, right?
2016-01-16T18:50:49Z wlad: Bike: if I rewrote the odd? branch like this:   ((odd? n) (mul ( double x) (- n 1)))
2016-01-16T18:50:55Z wlad: Would it become tail-recurisve?
2016-01-16T18:51:01Z Bike: that would be a tail call to mul, yes.
2016-01-16T18:51:27Z Bike: What I mean to say is that if you have (foo (bar ...)), the call to bar is NOT tail, since the results have to be passed to foo.
2016-01-16T18:52:02Z Yak-130 left #lisp
2016-01-16T18:52:37Z wlad: Bike: ok, that I got. Probably "make it iterative" means exactly that: making sure that there'd be a last call to the same function?
2016-01-16T18:52:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T18:52:54Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T18:52:55Z streamofconsciou joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:53:06Z Bike: yes, "making it iterative" means ensuring that it's tail recursive, because that opens up optimizations SICP will go over later if it hasn't already.
2016-01-16T18:53:36Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:53:58Z Bike: I don't know how much you know, but these optimizations eliminate the need for multiple recursive calls on the stack.
2016-01-16T18:54:02Z streamofconsciou is now known as acidrain
2016-01-16T18:54:17Z wlad: Bike: thanks
2016-01-16T18:54:52Z wlad: z0d xantoz: ty too guys
2016-01-16T18:56:28Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T18:58:10Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:02:53Z acidrain quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-16T19:05:16Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:09:03Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:17:23Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T19:17:35Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:17:41Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:20:25Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:22:05Z Prion_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T19:23:27Z ggole quit
2016-01-16T19:23:51Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:26:57Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-16T19:27:20Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:33:30Z heddwch quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in)
2016-01-16T19:33:37Z heddwch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:34:05Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:35:55Z heddwch quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-16T19:36:02Z heddwch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:37:07Z gniourf quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T19:38:19Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:38:48Z heddwch quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-16T19:38:55Z heddwch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:41:38Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:42:47Z gniourf quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-16T19:43:42Z heddwch quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-16T19:43:48Z heddwch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:44:40Z ssake_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:45:30Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:46:40Z gniourf quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-16T19:47:02Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:47:05Z heddwch quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-16T19:47:12Z heddwch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:47:47Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:48:30Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:50:08Z gniourf quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-16T19:50:21Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:51:02Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:56:45Z duggiefresh left #lisp
2016-01-16T19:57:15Z heddwch quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in)
2016-01-16T19:57:22Z heddwch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T19:59:54Z emma quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-16T20:00:20Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:00:20Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-16T20:00:20Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:06:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T20:09:30Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T20:09:54Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:10:12Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:12:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:12:10Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-16T20:12:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:14:43Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-16T20:16:12Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-16T20:16:18Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:17:53Z shka_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T20:18:07Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:18:45Z shka_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T20:19:07Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:20:52Z skbierm quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-16T20:23:02Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-16T20:30:15Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T20:30:48Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:31:57Z shka_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T20:33:21Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:35:06Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T20:37:07Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:37:44Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-16T20:37:47Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:40:26Z Wojciech_K quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T20:42:40Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:46:50Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-16T20:49:05Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-16T20:50:33Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:51:10Z CoolerMaster joined #lisp
2016-01-16T20:59:11Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-16T20:59:28Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:00:47Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T21:00:51Z Jesin quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T21:04:14Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T21:04:28Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-16T21:06:04Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:07:47Z gmcastil joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:08:15Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T21:08:59Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:11:08Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-16T21:11:47Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:12:10Z resttime: Whoa, lisp.
2016-01-16T21:12:18Z resttime: So I was like reflecting how I wrote CFFI bindings by looking at the HTML documentation for the C library just the other day.
2016-01-16T21:12:23Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-16T21:12:30Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:12:44Z resttime: And then I thought about how I would get computer to do it automatically.
2016-01-16T21:13:02Z resttime: Then I thought back how I would do it, and then I realized it was the "same."
2016-01-16T21:13:43Z resttime: Blew my mind, to me this implies if I can solve the problem then I could describe the solution to the computer, like it was part of my mental model.
2016-01-16T21:14:16Z CoolerMaster left #lisp
2016-01-16T21:14:51Z resttime: Like the computer model in my mental model gained access to the mental model.
2016-01-16T21:14:51Z frewtc4ke joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:15:08Z resttime: Whoa...
2016-01-16T21:15:59Z resttime: Like a really subtle change in how I viewed the problem and it was like
2016-01-16T21:15:59Z resttime: whoa
2016-01-16T21:17:16Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:18:40Z resttime: Like i could write lisp based on my thoughts of how "I" would solve the problem and not how "computer" would solve the problem.
2016-01-16T21:18:51Z shka_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T21:19:21Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:20:05Z bogwonch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-16T21:22:05Z resttime: Common lisp is so cool :D
2016-01-16T21:24:27Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-16T21:24:46Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:25:00Z iskander quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-16T21:30:10Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T21:32:04Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:32:05Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-16T21:32:46Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-16T21:41:59Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-16T21:42:22Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:42:45Z attila_lendvai: resttime: I wrote an automatic generator that works from the header files. it's waiting to be merged into cffi: https://github.com/attila-lendvai/cffi
2016-01-16T21:43:04Z attila_lendvai: resttime: here's an example project using it: https://github.com/attila-lendvai/hu.dwim.sdl
2016-01-16T21:47:39Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-16T21:48:04Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T21:48:24Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:49:00Z shka quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-16T21:49:12Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:49:29Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-16T21:50:07Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T21:52:02Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:54:54Z wz1000 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T21:56:03Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T21:56:26Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T21:56:54Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T21:57:25Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:00:59Z resttime: attila_lendvai: Neat, it'll be interesting to use as a part of CFFI.
2016-01-16T22:01:06Z shka quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-16T22:01:22Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:01:35Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T22:02:11Z attila_lendvai: resttime: just saw you on #lispgames, so you probably know about cl-autowrap and stuff... I just wanted to make sure you don't write bindings by hand if the machine can do it for you now
2016-01-16T22:02:39Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:03:48Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:04:03Z resttime: attila_lendvai: Too late lol.  The bindings of mine were written a fairly long time ago.
2016-01-16T22:04:30Z the_signalman quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-16T22:05:04Z gmcastil` joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:05:31Z the_signalman joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:06:53Z gmcastil quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-16T22:07:46Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:11:05Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:15:14Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T22:15:19Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:16:20Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:18:41Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T22:20:55Z posterdati300 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T22:21:31Z bioinformatics79 joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:21:57Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-16T22:23:58Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:27:00Z dos joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:30:45Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:31:45Z voxr joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:32:31Z voxr left #lisp
2016-01-16T22:33:12Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-16T22:33:28Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:33:37Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-16T22:35:23Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T22:35:45Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T22:37:23Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-16T22:38:34Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:38:35Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-16T22:42:35Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-16T22:43:12Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T22:46:01Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:47:59Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-16T22:47:59Z moore33: A
2016-01-16T22:48:52Z oleo_: B
2016-01-16T22:48:55Z moore33: attila_lendvai: Is there a c++ story for autogenerating cffi bindings?
2016-01-16T22:50:20Z attila_lendvai: moore33: not much. in theory my code could be extended to generate cffi-grovel files for c++ stuff and for inline function declarations... but then maybe I'd just help out clasp and use that (CL based off of C++)
2016-01-16T22:51:00Z zacts quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-16T22:51:10Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T22:52:03Z moore33: Ok
2016-01-16T22:55:54Z resttime: moore33: C++ does some evil bad name mangling if I recall correctly so writing an interim C library that interfaces with the C++ library is required first so one could get the CFFI bindings.
2016-01-16T22:56:23Z resttime: Which I think is why clasp was worked on, or at one of the reasons.
2016-01-16T22:56:40Z zacts joined #lisp
2016-01-16T22:58:04Z moore33: resttime: Yeah, I'm aware of the name-mangling and other unpleasantness. I'm not quite ready to wean myself from SBCL and CCL.
2016-01-16T22:58:05Z attila_lendvai: resttime: I think the name mangling could be dealt with, if not any other way then by generating the C wrappers... but I think the real issue is the usage of templates, if you want to interface with a C++ code that relies on templates and virtual function calls, etc.
2016-01-16T22:59:57Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-16T23:00:44Z resttime: moore33: Me neither lol, though I am looking forward to seeing a mature clasp development.
2016-01-16T23:01:30Z resttime: attila_lendvai: Makes sense, didn't think about that.
2016-01-16T23:01:59Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T23:08:08Z moore33: One could hack around by generating C++ code from Lisp inside a function with "C" linkage, writing it out, compiling it, dynamically loading it...
2016-01-16T23:09:01Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-16T23:09:57Z attila_lendvai: that's what the cffi-grovel infrastructure does
2016-01-16T23:10:03Z attila_lendvai: minus the generation part
2016-01-16T23:10:19Z attila_lendvai left #lisp
2016-01-16T23:10:29Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-16T23:13:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-16T23:24:09Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-16T23:24:33Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-16T23:28:50Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-16T23:30:32Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-16T23:31:42Z eta quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-16T23:35:04Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-16T23:39:47Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-16T23:45:40Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-16T23:46:18Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-16T23:47:05Z moore33 quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-16T23:47:56Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-16T23:50:35Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-16T23:50:42Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-16T23:53:07Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-16T23:53:47Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-16T23:55:25Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-16T23:58:12Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-17T00:03:23Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-17T00:11:31Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-17T00:18:59Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-17T00:19:17Z kenalex joined #lisp
2016-01-17T00:19:20Z kenalex: hello
2016-01-17T00:21:10Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-17T00:24:27Z dos quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-17T00:24:57Z vydd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T00:26:00Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-17T00:28:02Z zacts quit
2016-01-17T00:28:04Z resttime quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T00:28:57Z zacts joined #lisp
2016-01-17T00:31:31Z zacts quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-17T00:32:46Z zacts joined #lisp
2016-01-17T00:35:10Z kenalex: what is a good  book on learning lisp
2016-01-17T00:35:29Z Bike: minion: pcl
2016-01-17T00:35:29Z minion: pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2016-01-17T00:37:57Z kenalex: has listp beenused to make any commercial applications ?
2016-01-17T00:38:14Z cmatei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T00:39:40Z contrapunctus: kenalex: if you don't google/duckduckgo these questions before asking them here, the chances of getting an answer are low.
2016-01-17T00:41:04Z kenalex: ok.
2016-01-17T00:41:17Z kenalex:  i was kinda figured some experienced lisp programmers to  to give  an example of their experience
2016-01-17T00:41:37Z contrapunctus: kenalex: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/543579/what-is-the-most-impressive-lisp-application
2016-01-17T00:41:45Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T00:44:03Z kenalex: thanks guys
2016-01-17T00:44:14Z contrapunctus: kenalex: the other sounds a little different, maybe read http://flownet.com/gat/jpl-lisp.html
2016-01-17T00:44:42Z contrapunctus: kenalex: or paul graham's essays. (can't recall anything else right away)
2016-01-17T00:45:33Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-17T00:52:03Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-17T00:57:09Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-17T00:58:29Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-17T00:58:56Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:02:04Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:03:07Z Rptx joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:05:15Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T01:08:27Z jason_m quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-17T01:14:50Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:14:52Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:16:50Z tessier quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-17T01:17:04Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:17:37Z kenalex quit
2016-01-17T01:18:47Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T01:26:16Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T01:28:21Z frewtc4ke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T01:31:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-17T01:32:00Z Mitzelflick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T01:34:52Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:35:06Z kaleun joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:37:14Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:38:34Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:40:52Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-17T01:42:43Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:43:32Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-17T01:46:05Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T01:46:05Z Mitzelflick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T01:47:42Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:52:11Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:52:11Z Mitzelflick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T01:52:44Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:53:51Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:55:15Z yeticry_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T01:56:44Z bioinformatics80 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:56:46Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-17T01:57:12Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-17T01:57:40Z bioinformatics79 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-17T01:57:40Z Mitzelflick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T01:58:54Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:01:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T02:02:53Z kaleun quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:02:53Z Mitzelflick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T02:04:02Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:05:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:05:15Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-17T02:05:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:06:49Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:06:50Z Mitzelflick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T02:07:22Z TMM quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:07:23Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:08:40Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:08:40Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:09:02Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:09:09Z NeverDie quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-17T02:09:23Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:11:56Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:14:49Z skbierm joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:17:03Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:18:18Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:19:19Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T02:21:12Z skbierm quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:21:43Z skbierm joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:22:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:27:26Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:28:22Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:30:57Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T02:33:27Z m_zr0_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:36:26Z m_zr0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:38:26Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T02:38:55Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:41:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:44:38Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:48:11Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:48:40Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:50:55Z Rptx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T02:55:18Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:55:29Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T02:55:45Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:56:20Z xorox90 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T02:57:53Z huza joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:03:32Z Qudit314159 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:04:34Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T03:05:32Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-17T03:07:38Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:08:08Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: Reconnecting…)
2016-01-17T03:08:29Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:11:59Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
2016-01-17T03:12:12Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-17T03:13:29Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-17T03:18:57Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:19:51Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:20:25Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T03:24:05Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-17T03:26:50Z yuankode quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T03:27:29Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T03:28:28Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:30:32Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:32:40Z Sando quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T03:33:04Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:34:13Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:37:40Z Qudit314159 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T03:43:53Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-17T03:55:33Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-17T04:05:32Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T04:13:44Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-17T04:18:30Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T04:25:40Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-17T04:26:27Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-17T04:31:52Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-17T04:40:18Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2016-01-17T04:41:30Z cyraxjoe_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-17T04:42:16Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-17T04:47:19Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2016-01-17T04:47:27Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-17T04:52:33Z bioinformatics80 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-17T04:53:31Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T04:56:17Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T04:58:06Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-17T04:58:06Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-17T04:58:06Z tessier quit (Changing host)
2016-01-17T04:58:06Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-17T04:59:08Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-17T05:00:21Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-17T05:03:06Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T05:03:18Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T05:06:19Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-17T05:07:43Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-17T05:07:48Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T05:07:52Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-17T05:09:22Z zch: Sup beach
2016-01-17T05:10:48Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-17T05:22:33Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-17T05:24:55Z zch quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-17T05:29:35Z contrapunctus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-17T05:32:19Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-17T05:35:59Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-17T05:36:22Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-17T05:41:58Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-17T05:50:34Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-17T05:51:56Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-17T05:53:13Z Mitzelflick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T05:56:43Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T05:59:51Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T06:07:49Z kaleun joined #lisp
2016-01-17T06:18:13Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-17T06:20:56Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-17T06:26:24Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-17T06:28:32Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-17T06:36:36Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-17T06:45:31Z resttime` joined #lisp
2016-01-17T06:46:04Z resttime quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-17T06:46:07Z resttime` is now known as resttime
2016-01-17T06:51:33Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-17T06:55:06Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-17T06:56:06Z Baggers quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-17T07:02:54Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-17T07:03:33Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T07:06:44Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-17T07:10:12Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-17T07:18:08Z caffeinic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T07:22:09Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-17T07:23:03Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-17T07:23:56Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-17T07:24:25Z beach: resttime: Thanks for the typo fix.
2016-01-17T07:31:22Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T07:37:16Z resttime: No problem, just a minor thing I hope isn't too minor to mention.
2016-01-17T07:37:31Z beach: Not at all!
2016-01-17T07:38:34Z beach: resttime: With age, I am slowly turning dyslexic.  I no longer see most typos.  The spell checker takes care of most of them, but not, as in this case, the incorrect word is a valid one.
2016-01-17T07:43:23Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-17T07:46:06Z beach: WHEN the incorrect word...
2016-01-17T07:50:15Z gmcastil` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T07:51:18Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T07:55:09Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-17T07:57:17Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:00:07Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-17T08:09:18Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:09:56Z psy quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-17T08:10:36Z scottj joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:10:44Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:16:08Z bolichep quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-17T08:30:47Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:35:52Z fu7mu4 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:42:28Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:44:49Z voidlily quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T08:46:31Z voidlily joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:47:39Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-17T08:49:20Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:52:37Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:54:04Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-17T08:55:08Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T09:02:19Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2016-01-17T09:03:12Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-17T09:09:05Z wz1000 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-17T09:10:05Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-17T09:10:56Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-17T09:11:00Z tos-1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T09:12:30Z tos-1 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T09:17:25Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T09:17:26Z vaporatorius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T09:19:01Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-17T09:19:10Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T09:28:07Z ssake__ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T09:29:57Z Warlock_29A quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-17T09:37:30Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-17T09:38:33Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-17T09:52:41Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-17T09:54:14Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-17T10:02:30Z loke joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:03:31Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:03:55Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:05:54Z John[Lisbeth] joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:08:21Z Qudit314159 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:08:34Z protist quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T10:10:38Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:11:58Z John[Lisbeth]: how do I terminate sbcl?
2016-01-17T10:12:24Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:13:01Z jackdaniel: John[Lisbeth]: C-d , or C-c and from the debugger (quit)
2016-01-17T10:17:06Z jchmrt quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-17T10:17:55Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-17T10:19:12Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T10:20:19Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:24:40Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:27:53Z resttime quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-17T10:28:29Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-17T10:30:42Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:35:00Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T10:38:14Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:41:38Z jchmrt joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:41:52Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T10:42:04Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T10:44:59Z funnel quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-17T10:46:31Z protist quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T10:46:58Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:51:20Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T10:51:58Z protist quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T10:54:55Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:56:20Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-17T10:57:18Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:02:55Z protist quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T11:04:24Z Joreji joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:04:38Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:08:39Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:09:13Z chu quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-17T11:09:45Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:14:58Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:17:28Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:17:40Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:17:58Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-17T11:22:07Z pillton: beach: Good evening.
2016-01-17T11:22:52Z pillton: beach: You have a buffer protocol for a text editor don't you?
2016-01-17T11:22:54Z Th30n_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:25:55Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T11:27:26Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T11:28:54Z protist quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T11:29:20Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:34:08Z fu7mu4 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T11:34:27Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-17T11:37:30Z Th30n_ is now known as Th30n
2016-01-17T11:38:26Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:39:32Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:40:07Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:45:17Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-17T11:47:57Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:52:43Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-17T11:54:24Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:55:53Z protist quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T11:57:45Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-17T11:58:14Z Qudit314159 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T12:00:14Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:02:13Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:03:29Z guna joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:04:52Z kaleun quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T12:07:13Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-17T12:12:48Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-17T12:15:23Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:21:19Z synchromesh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T12:30:59Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:30:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-17T12:30:59Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:31:32Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-17T12:32:36Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:33:02Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:33:15Z bin7me joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:34:29Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:38:15Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:43:09Z Sando joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:47:24Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-17T12:49:15Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:55:26Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-17T12:59:13Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:01:17Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:06:04Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T13:09:19Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:09:27Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:13:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T13:17:01Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:20:10Z pjb: John[Lisbeth]: (progn (apropos "QUIT") (apropos "EXIT"))
2016-01-17T13:21:22Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T13:23:40Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:33:29Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-17T13:34:29Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:36:02Z geeth joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:37:18Z geeth quit
2016-01-17T13:39:03Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:39:30Z geeth joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:40:59Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:42:04Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:42:14Z geeth quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-17T13:43:51Z vettipayal joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:44:10Z oleo_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T13:48:55Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-17T13:49:54Z Qudit314159 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:50:50Z Sando quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T13:51:04Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:51:27Z sweater is now known as Guest12240
2016-01-17T13:52:23Z vettipayal quit
2016-01-17T13:52:25Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:52:38Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-17T13:54:42Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2016-01-17T13:54:42Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:54:42Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2016-01-17T13:54:42Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-17T13:55:09Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-17T13:57:07Z hardenedapple quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T14:00:53Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:00:54Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-17T14:07:41Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:09:13Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:11:54Z NeverDie_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T14:16:11Z papachan_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-17T14:19:48Z heddwch quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in)
2016-01-17T14:19:55Z heddwch joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:20:00Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-17T14:20:34Z heddwch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T14:20:41Z heddwch joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:21:14Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:21:45Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:24:12Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-17T14:25:23Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:28:19Z NeverDie_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T14:29:06Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:29:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-17T14:29:06Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:29:37Z attila_lendvai left #lisp
2016-01-17T14:30:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:38:35Z guna quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-17T14:42:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T14:43:03Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-17T14:47:38Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-17T15:00:36Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-17T15:07:01Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-17T15:07:29Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-17T15:10:54Z Qudit314159 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T15:11:01Z iskander quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-17T15:12:45Z beach: pillton: Yes, I do.
2016-01-17T15:13:22Z beach: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Cluffer
2016-01-17T15:15:17Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-17T15:18:56Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-17T15:25:26Z moore33 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T15:25:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T15:27:41Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-17T15:27:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-17T15:33:39Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-17T15:35:28Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-17T15:35:28Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-17T15:35:28Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-17T15:38:20Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T15:43:02Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-17T15:44:55Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T15:48:26Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-17T15:52:44Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-17T15:58:52Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-17T16:00:53Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:05:26Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T16:07:43Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:08:24Z baboon`- joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:08:32Z baboon` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-17T16:12:29Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:13:01Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-17T16:13:04Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T16:15:05Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T16:17:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:19:32Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:20:58Z iskander: what is the purpose of (values) as the last expression in a function or macro ?
2016-01-17T16:20:58Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:21:32Z Bike: just an idiom for not returning anything.
2016-01-17T16:21:56Z Zhivago: It also allows you to distinguish between not returning anything and returning nil.
2016-01-17T16:22:04Z Zhivago: (At the receiving end)
2016-01-17T16:24:02Z iskander: thanks, i'm reading the book 'common lisp recipes' and stumbled upon this
2016-01-17T16:25:50Z iskander: how can i distinguish between 'no value' and nil ?
2016-01-17T16:26:20Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-17T16:26:56Z iskander: hmm, (eq (values) nil)  => T
2016-01-17T16:27:11Z Bike: (multiple-values-list (values)) => nil, (multiple-values-list nil) => (nil)
2016-01-17T16:27:18Z Bike: multiple-value-list, oops
2016-01-17T16:27:41Z Bike: don't usually need to, though
2016-01-17T16:28:20Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:28:42Z Petit_Dejeuner: I guess it has to give back something. Isn't there a (void) that returns nothing in some other lisps?
2016-01-17T16:29:22Z Bike: not really
2016-01-17T16:29:50Z Petit_Dejeuner: It's just a void object, isn't it?
2016-01-17T16:29:59Z Bike: what is
2016-01-17T16:30:32Z Petit_Dejeuner: (void) in most schemes
2016-01-17T16:31:48Z Bike: oh, a non standard object to return from side effect operations. well, i guess.
2016-01-17T16:33:20Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-17T16:33:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T16:34:38Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-17T16:37:06Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:37:44Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:42:59Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:49:24Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:50:52Z findiggle joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:51:03Z findiggle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T16:55:06Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T16:57:21Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-17T16:58:34Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:58:34Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-17T16:58:35Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-17T16:58:58Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T17:02:57Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-17T17:05:21Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-17T17:07:50Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T17:08:33Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T17:10:34Z salih666 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T17:11:45Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-17T17:12:32Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T17:12:58Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-17T17:14:49Z futpib quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T17:19:02Z funnel joined #lisp
2016-01-17T17:19:46Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T17:20:13Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-17T17:22:06Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-17T17:25:13Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T17:25:35Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-17T17:26:25Z hardenedapple quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T17:29:46Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T17:34:59Z moore33 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T17:40:33Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T17:41:46Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-17T17:48:24Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T17:50:51Z yuta joined #lisp
2016-01-17T18:01:57Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-17T18:03:29Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-17T18:03:56Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-17T18:10:01Z lispyone joined #lisp
2016-01-17T18:12:30Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-17T18:12:47Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-17T18:13:33Z Wojciech_K quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-17T18:14:46Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-17T18:17:17Z ACE_Recliner quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-17T18:17:50Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-17T18:19:29Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2016-01-17T18:19:46Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T18:25:41Z k4rtik quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-17T18:29:04Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T18:35:30Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T18:36:34Z yuta quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.50.1))
2016-01-17T18:36:34Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-17T18:36:43Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-17T18:36:46Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-17T18:42:51Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-17T18:57:34Z bioinformatics98 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:01:00Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:01:01Z Prion_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-17T19:01:25Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:08:21Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:10:10Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:12:58Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-17T19:15:09Z velo-alien joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:15:32Z NeverDie_ quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-17T19:22:28Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-17T19:23:09Z phoe6 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:26:23Z moore33 quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-17T19:26:45Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:27:03Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-17T19:30:08Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-17T19:31:04Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:31:35Z hardenedapple quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T19:44:10Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:44:56Z attila_lendvai: cffi doesn't automatically convert nil to (cffi:null-pointer), right?
2016-01-17T19:45:07Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:46:06Z bcoburn_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T19:52:11Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-17T19:56:00Z salih666 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T19:56:07Z ggole quit
2016-01-17T20:00:23Z DrCode joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:04:58Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T20:05:22Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:11:16Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2016-01-17T20:11:51Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:14:49Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:16:35Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:17:38Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:20:04Z calher joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:20:45Z calher: Where is the old Lisp source to Reddit?
2016-01-17T20:25:10Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2016-01-17T20:25:26Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:26:41Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-17T20:28:07Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T20:30:48Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:31:36Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:38:03Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:38:15Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T20:38:50Z rhg135 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T20:40:14Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T20:46:54Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-17T20:47:55Z bioinformatics98 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-17T20:50:12Z bin7me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-17T20:53:42Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T21:02:37Z skbierm quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-17T21:02:47Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:06:48Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:07:33Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:08:23Z csziacobus quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-17T21:08:58Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:11:49Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:15:19Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T21:16:10Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T21:16:34Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:18:54Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T21:19:07Z tumdum quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-17T21:19:07Z eli quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2016-01-17T21:19:24Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:20:17Z Jonsky joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:20:38Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:20:38Z k4rtik quit (Changing host)
2016-01-17T21:20:39Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:22:15Z tumdum joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:29:41Z heurist quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z gingerale quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z Jesin quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z troydm quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z Cymew quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z replcated quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z dfcat quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z habs quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z Walex quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z vxxe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z Fade quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z zickzackv quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:29:54Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T21:30:46Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-17T21:32:31Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-17T21:32:40Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T21:34:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-17T21:42:04Z iskander quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-17T21:44:35Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:44:39Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T21:46:22Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-17T21:47:00Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T21:53:22Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-17T21:53:42Z tos-1 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-17T21:55:22Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:00:47Z bioinformatics25 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:01:06Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T22:01:15Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:01:46Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:05:45Z vxxe joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:05:47Z Fade joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:05:49Z Walex joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:05:56Z habs joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:06:01Z cat- joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:06:02Z tomaw is now known as 21WAAR5J5
2016-01-17T22:06:03Z _death joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:06:09Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:06:18Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:06:27Z 21WAAR5J5 is now known as tomaw
2016-01-17T22:06:32Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:06:41Z zickzackv joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:06:53Z mrSpec is now known as Guest30380
2016-01-17T22:08:04Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:09:17Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-17T22:10:53Z ck_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:12:16Z Guest30380 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-17T22:12:16Z Guest30380 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:12:20Z Guest30380 is now known as mrSpec
2016-01-17T22:13:50Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:23:16Z mishoo quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-17T22:23:48Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:24:26Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:27:26Z ivan\ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:27:26Z renard_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:27:38Z Kruppe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:27:39Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:27:40Z rhg135 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:28:10Z lispyone quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-17T22:28:27Z renard_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:28:27Z ivan\ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:28:32Z ivan\ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-17T22:29:06Z ivan\ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:29:28Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:32:09Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T22:39:23Z Kruppe joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:40:41Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T22:41:03Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:41:43Z phoe6 quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-17T22:43:10Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T22:43:40Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T22:44:16Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:46:09Z AntiSpamMeta2 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:46:09Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Killed (kornbluth.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2016-01-17T22:46:09Z AntiSpamMeta2 is now known as AntiSpamMeta
2016-01-17T22:47:21Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:48:53Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:48:53Z AeroNotix quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:48:53Z martinhath quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:48:53Z z0d quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:48:53Z Firedancer quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:49:18Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:49:20Z stux|RC quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:50:11Z tomaw quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T22:50:13Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:50:13Z tippenein quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:50:23Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:51:01Z tippenein joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:51:09Z Firedancer joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:51:24Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:51:30Z kjeldahl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:51:51Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:51:58Z tomaw joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:52:01Z martinhath joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:52:21Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:53:39Z oleo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:39Z zygentoma quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:39Z Meow-J quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:39Z user121243 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z angavrilov quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z PuercoPop quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z josteink quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z myrkraverk quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z billstclair quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z Neet quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z NhanH quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z trig-ger quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z gendl quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z Zotan quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z __main__ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z dew3y quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z schoppenhauer quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z dlowe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z jackdaniel quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:40Z H4ns quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-17T22:53:56Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:54:40Z bioinformatics55 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:55:32Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:55:55Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:56:03Z bioinformatics25 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-17T22:56:52Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T22:56:57Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:22Z z0d joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z user121243 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z josteink joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z billstclair joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z Neet joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z NhanH joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z trig-ger joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z gendl joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z dew3y joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z Zotan joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z __main__ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z dlowe joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:57:48Z H4ns joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:58:04Z trig-ger quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-17T22:58:11Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:59:17Z skbierm joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:59:20Z trig-ger joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:59:49Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-17T22:59:54Z AeroNotix joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:00:34Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:00:55Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:01:06Z wyan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T23:01:41Z faheem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T23:02:12Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T23:02:15Z XachX quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T23:04:11Z wyan joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:04:13Z XachX joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:04:30Z faheem joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:09:43Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T23:10:25Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T23:12:00Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-17T23:12:31Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:18:21Z kjeldahl joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:28:15Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T23:28:41Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-17T23:29:24Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-17T23:30:09Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:41:27Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:44:09Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:47:43Z joneshf-laptop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T23:48:12Z kobain quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-17T23:48:17Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:52:22Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-17T23:55:50Z velo-alien quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T23:58:15Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-17T23:58:35Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-17T23:59:15Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-17T23:59:26Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T00:02:09Z znpy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T00:04:07Z velo-alien joined #lisp
2016-01-18T00:04:37Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-18T00:10:30Z caffeinic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T00:30:29Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-18T00:35:03Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T00:38:27Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-18T00:40:23Z velo-alien quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T00:42:03Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T00:43:21Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-18T00:44:01Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-18T00:46:30Z PuercoPop: attila_lendvai: btw do you know what parameters to pass to the :connection-specifiction option of hu.dwim.rdbms to use a unix socket?
2016-01-18T00:47:11Z baboon`- quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-18T00:47:46Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: I wrote most of that, but I have no clue... :) IIRC, it passes the args pretty much straight to postmodern, and I'm not sure it supports unix sockets, but don't really know
2016-01-18T00:49:12Z PuercoPop: postmodern as in cl-postgres does support it (if one specifies the :host as :unix iirc) which doesn't appear to be working. I'll look into it some more.
2016-01-18T00:49:32Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T00:49:32Z loke_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-18T00:49:49Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T00:50:07Z PuercoPop: is there a way to monitor the SQL sent to the server similar to clsql start-sql-recording?
2016-01-18T00:50:26Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: yep, it has a similar name, use fuzzy completion
2016-01-18T00:50:39Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: if you need patching just record the diff and let me know
2016-01-18T00:50:54Z eli joined #lisp
2016-01-18T00:52:13Z caffeinic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T00:52:20Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T00:54:10Z PuercoPop: sure. Btw Kudos on perec, I like how it handles foreign/1-m/m/m through def association. The lack of documentation combined with the uncommon hu.dwim dialect seem the only things that inhibit its uptake. Not that I dislike the (def ..) or defclass*
2016-01-18T00:55:12Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: but the test suite...! :) it has an exceptionally large test suite among lisp libs.
2016-01-18T00:56:30Z attila_lendvai: I don't know why people find it so alien. it's pretty obvious, maybe after a couple of macroexpands... but it's a pity all that code is lying there dormant
2016-01-18T00:56:32Z gyro_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T00:56:37Z gyro_: ahh its a wonderful day
2016-01-18T00:57:24Z attila_lendvai: thanks for the nice words though! perec is mostly the work of levente and tomi, I worked more on the UI side of things, and the general engineering of all that crap into a workable exe
2016-01-18T00:57:25Z voidengineer joined #lisp
2016-01-18T00:57:31Z loke_: Good morning Lisp!
2016-01-18T00:59:51Z PuercoPop: attila_lendvai: it is alien because it is uncommon, not because it is a bad idea or anything. I like that it makes namespaces explicit. It may make a good combination with https://github.com/guicho271828/lisp-namespace
2016-01-18T01:02:53Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:06:35Z PuercoPop: attila_lendvai: shouldn't hu.dwim.rdbms.postgresql:postgresql subclass database-mixin ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/305304
2016-01-18T01:08:24Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T01:08:57Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: no, because that's perec's database-mixin, and rdbms also works as a standalone lib
2016-01-18T01:09:31Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:09:35Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: you can use the postgresql/perec class
2016-01-18T01:10:23Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T01:10:24Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-18T01:10:52Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:15:17Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T01:16:54Z PuercoPop: attila_lendvai: that is what I get for not reading through the system-apropos list, everything works now, apparently I needed to specify passsword nil, now to the next error!
2016-01-18T01:18:36Z antonv: what is the most laconic way to create a vector of type '(unsigned-byte 8) with given elements. Somethihg as close to a literal #(1 2 1 2), but with elennt-type "(unsigned-byte 8)
2016-01-18T01:18:57Z antonv: as close as possible
2016-01-18T01:18:59Z antonv: to that literal
2016-01-18T01:21:06Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: you mean a :password nil is mandatory for unix domain sockets to work? if so that should be addressed... I'd appreciate if you made notes on your way!
2016-01-18T01:22:44Z skbierm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T01:25:59Z PuercoPop: attila_lendvai: Well it is mandatory for when no password is used, but trust. I plan to do so, as part of the project I'm using perec in
2016-01-18T01:26:27Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:27:07Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: great, thanks! let me know when/if you get stuck...
2016-01-18T01:27:41Z PuercoPop: btw how do i specify a nullable association? My inutuition of :type (or null (set tag)) does not work
2016-01-18T01:28:19Z skbierm joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:28:47Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: I think you need to specify is on the left side of the 1-n association, but I may have no clue from so long ago
2016-01-18T01:29:26Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: look around in /test/persistence/1-n-association.lisp
2016-01-18T01:29:32Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:30:54Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:31:59Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T01:34:24Z PuercoPop: attila_lendvai: ok from m-n it appears that (set ) is nullable
2016-01-18T01:35:23Z attila_lendvai: (we haven't used m-n extensively in production)
2016-01-18T01:42:33Z Heranort: (loop for d below 100 do
2016-01-18T01:42:33Z Heranort:      (sort '(12 5 23 6 234 7 2 4 24 6) #'<))  throws an error in SBCL. isn't that a bug?
2016-01-18T01:43:22Z Heranort: ver 1.2.15 on Mac
2016-01-18T01:43:41Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T01:46:31Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2016-01-18T01:46:59Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T01:47:26Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:47:32Z attila_lendvai: Heranort: sort is destructive, you must not destructively modify literal lists
2016-01-18T01:47:50Z Heranort: i know, i just want to test the speed.
2016-01-18T01:48:17Z Heranort: it throws an ERROR in SBCL, but works in lispworks and other implementation
2016-01-18T01:48:30Z Rptx joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:48:42Z Heranort: "The value NIL is not of type CONS."
2016-01-18T01:48:58Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:49:49Z attila_lendvai: Heranort: you didn't understand me. the consequences of your code are undefined (read: the universe may collapse)
2016-01-18T01:49:52Z White_Flame: (loop with l = '(12 ..) for d ... do (setf l (sort l #'<)))
2016-01-18T01:50:50Z White_Flame: with l = (copy-list '(12 ...))
2016-01-18T01:51:28Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:51:32Z White_Flame: but then you'll be constantly sorting an already-sorted list
2016-01-18T01:51:55Z White_Flame: another option would be to duplicate the list 100 times, and destroy each list entry in succession in your loop
2016-01-18T01:52:44Z Heranort: ah, i only want the sort code to be run for 100 times and check the time elapsed. i don't care about the result anyway
2016-01-18T01:56:08Z AJavaIdiot quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-18T01:57:15Z Qudit314159 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T01:58:25Z SAL9000 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T02:00:27Z Heranort: attila_lendvai do you mean that i may destruct the list during the modification?
2016-01-18T02:00:39Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T02:01:07Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:02:00Z phoe_krk: Heranort: make a simple experiment
2016-01-18T02:02:17Z phoe_krk: (defvar *list* (list 3 8 100 282 31 ...))
2016-01-18T02:02:22Z attila_lendvai: Heranort: what you see is that sort reorders the cons cells in your literal list, and after the first run the list is gutted
2016-01-18T02:02:27Z phoe_krk: (sort *list* #'<)
2016-01-18T02:02:36Z phoe_krk: *list*
2016-01-18T02:02:56Z phoe_krk: tl;dr check what's left of your *list* after (sort) plows it up.
2016-01-18T02:03:26Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:04:02Z Heranort: attila_lendvai phoe_krk i understand. the sort process ruined the list.
2016-01-18T02:04:26Z phoe_krk: Heranort: and you're trying to apply sort over the already ruined list from what I see.
2016-01-18T02:04:32Z phoe_krk: again, and again, and again.
2016-01-18T02:04:47Z phoe_krk: you should (copy-list *list*) perhaps, as suggested above.
2016-01-18T02:04:51Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:04:54Z Heranort: hmm...sure!
2016-01-18T02:05:04Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:05:31Z phoe_krk: or first make a list with 100 copies of *list*, then benchmark mapcaring #'sort over the list of *list* copies.
2016-01-18T02:05:42Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-18T02:05:44Z phoe_krk: so you benchmark only the sorting, not the consing.
2016-01-18T02:05:54Z Heranort: but the thing i'm thinking about is why this consequence varies among the different implementations?
2016-01-18T02:06:18Z Heranort: phoe_krk  i can catch that.
2016-01-18T02:06:44Z Heranort: i tested the code on lispworks and works fine, returning nil.
2016-01-18T02:07:27Z attila_lendvai: Heranort: probably sbcl applies more optimization
2016-01-18T02:07:48Z phoe_krk: Heranort: probably running sort over the same list is undefined.
2016-01-18T02:07:52Z phoe_krk: hence variation on this one.
2016-01-18T02:07:58Z phoe_krk: running sort multiple times*
2016-01-18T02:08:05Z phoe_krk: oh, wait, yes, it is
2016-01-18T02:08:14Z phoe_krk: sort destroys the original list and returns a new one
2016-01-18T02:08:27Z phoe_krk: the original list is garbage afterwards and running any operations on it gets undefined.
2016-01-18T02:08:32Z phoe_krk: which includes consecutive sorts.
2016-01-18T02:08:35Z phoe_krk: because
2016-01-18T02:08:52Z phoe_krk: you *might get a NIL instead of a cons at some point
2016-01-18T02:09:05Z phoe_krk: when the pointer to the original list ends up pointing into NIL instead.
2016-01-18T02:09:14Z Heranort: oh, so SBCL's GC is probably more hungry than other implementations!
2016-01-18T02:09:15Z phoe_krk: just what I thought.
2016-01-18T02:09:29Z phoe_krk: Heranort: or the sorting algorithm is constructed differently.
2016-01-18T02:09:34Z phoe_krk: Heranort: I don't think it's GC.
2016-01-18T02:09:46Z Heranort: phoe_krk you're right. that is what the error told me.
2016-01-18T02:10:05Z Heranort: constructed differently?
2016-01-18T02:10:09Z phoe_krk: I mean
2016-01-18T02:10:12Z phoe_krk: implemented differently.
2016-01-18T02:10:13Z phoe_krk: but
2016-01-18T02:10:18Z phoe_krk: you could probably do such an experiment.
2016-01-18T02:10:32Z phoe_krk: (let ((*list* (list ...)))
2016-01-18T02:10:39Z phoe_krk: (print *list*)
2016-01-18T02:11:15Z phoe_krk: (loop (sort *list* #'<) (print *list*)))
2016-01-18T02:11:28Z phoe_krk: to see if, and where, the loop fails
2016-01-18T02:11:29Z voidengineer quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-18T02:11:40Z phoe_krk: and also what happens to the list as it becomes fscked up by sort.
2016-01-18T02:12:28Z Heranort: no, it works fine.
2016-01-18T02:12:36Z phoe_krk: hum.
2016-01-18T02:12:39Z phoe_krk: no idea then.
2016-01-18T02:12:42Z Heranort: prints the sorted list.
2016-01-18T02:12:49Z phoe_krk: ...sorted list?
2016-01-18T02:12:53Z Heranort: yeah.
2016-01-18T02:13:17Z Heranort: for ex, i let *list* being (list 1 54 213 6 32 12)
2016-01-18T02:13:27Z phoe_krk: this... shouldn't print the sorted list.
2016-01-18T02:13:31Z Heranort: and the first time it prints (1 54 213 6 32 12)
2016-01-18T02:13:36Z phoe_krk: at least, it's not what I expected.
2016-01-18T02:13:43Z Heranort: other time, prints (1 6 12 32 54 213) , always.
2016-01-18T02:13:50Z Heranort: me neither...
2016-01-18T02:13:56Z phoe_krk: sort *returns* a sorted list, not setfs it.
2016-01-18T02:14:09Z phoe_krk: Give it another try since you have it nearby.
2016-01-18T02:14:19Z phoe_krk: With another list.
2016-01-18T02:14:23Z Heranort: well, fine.
2016-01-18T02:15:20Z Heranort: same, prints the sorted list.
2016-01-18T02:15:33Z phoe_krk: wtf
2016-01-18T02:15:53Z Heranort: wait!
2016-01-18T02:15:58Z phoe_krk: !?
2016-01-18T02:16:18Z Heranort: this prints the sorted list in Lispworks, but ate some number in SBCL!
2016-01-18T02:16:23Z Heranort: that is the key.
2016-01-18T02:16:26Z phoe_krk: precisely
2016-01-18T02:16:39Z Heranort: the sort is implemented differently.
2016-01-18T02:16:44Z phoe_krk: ahuh!
2016-01-18T02:16:57Z phoe_krk: Common Lisp's sort *is expected* to destroy your original list.
2016-01-18T02:17:25Z phoe_krk: And it seems like LispWorks utilizes that to actually setf the list to its new value afterwards, kind of extending the standard in a pesky way.
2016-01-18T02:17:39Z phoe_krk: While SBCL remains ANSI CL-pure and gives garbage where garbage is expected.
2016-01-18T02:17:47Z Heranort: yeah, that is it.
2016-01-18T02:17:48Z phoe_krk: But I might be very wrong on LispWorks as I don't know or have it.
2016-01-18T02:18:15Z Heranort: and clisp prints the sorted list, too.
2016-01-18T02:18:33Z Heranort: so clisp and lispworks don't stick to the ansi precisely.
2016-01-18T02:18:45Z Heranort: this is truly midleading.
2016-01-18T02:18:46Z phoe_krk: well, they stick
2016-01-18T02:18:50Z Heranort: misleading
2016-01-18T02:18:56Z phoe_krk: *anything* is expected to be left of the original list
2016-01-18T02:19:09Z phoe_krk: which includes the sorted list.
2016-01-18T02:19:58Z skbierm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T02:19:58Z Zhivago: It would be nice if they had a clear indicator for destructive operations, like in scheme. :)
2016-01-18T02:20:13Z Heranort: so there are so many different differentiations in such a simple procedure.
2016-01-18T02:20:42Z phoe_krk: >sorting
2016-01-18T02:20:43Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:20:43Z phoe_krk: >simple
2016-01-18T02:20:46Z phoe_krk: not really
2016-01-18T02:21:06Z Heranort: XD yeah..
2016-01-18T02:21:50Z Heranort: so thank you guys for let me know this case. :)
2016-01-18T02:22:20Z waressearcher2 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:22:48Z waressearcher2: how is that channel differs from #scheme ?
2016-01-18T02:23:24Z phoe_krk: waressearcher2: how is Common Lisp different from Scheme?
2016-01-18T02:23:56Z waressearcher2: yes, how ?
2016-01-18T02:24:11Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T02:24:11Z PuercoPop: phoe_krk: it is more likely that lispworks *reuses* the cons cell but the first cons cell pointed by *list* is not the start of the sorted list
2016-01-18T02:24:28Z waressearcher2: is there big difference ? like between "C++" and "C#" ?
2016-01-18T02:24:45Z phoe_krk: waressearcher2: there is.
2016-01-18T02:25:05Z waressearcher2: so how to choose between "scheme" and "common" ?
2016-01-18T02:25:08Z Heranort: waressearcher2 so you mean there should be only two channels left, #lisp and #non-lisp
2016-01-18T02:25:29Z waressearcher2: or #commonlisp
2016-01-18T02:26:36Z Heranort: i just think when people mentions lisp, the first lang they think about is Common Lisp
2016-01-18T02:27:00Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T02:27:37Z waressearcher2: I have "GNU CLISP 2.48" installed
2016-01-18T02:28:09Z waressearcher2: why there is a ASCII candle ?
2016-01-18T02:29:37Z waressearcher2: is that a symbol for bohemian laziness ?
2016-01-18T02:30:17Z PuercoPop: waressearcher2: I'm guessing it is a Hanukkah candle because one of the developers of Clisp is jewish
2016-01-18T02:40:06Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:40:26Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-18T02:43:11Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: hu.dwim.def already has a (def namespace ...) :)
2016-01-18T02:43:33Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:43:40Z aap quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T02:44:18Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:45:33Z learning joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:46:35Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T02:47:18Z learning: trying to read an html file with unicode text in it
2016-01-18T02:47:20Z learning: http://paste.lisp.org/display/305308
2016-01-18T02:47:30Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:49:28Z learning: in vim the character that's causing problems just shows up as <95> and is copy pasted as "UTF-8 stream decoding erro"
2016-01-18T02:50:17Z learning: the character appears to be  •
2016-01-18T02:51:17Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-18T02:54:44Z learning: if i can't get the unicode to work, is there an option to just skip failed characters
2016-01-18T02:56:57Z bioinformatics55 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-18T02:57:26Z attila_lendvai: learning: you can use utf-8b, or iso-8859-1, or otherwise just identify the proper encoding.
2016-01-18T02:57:58Z Qudit314159 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T02:58:09Z learning: can i just change the import line for that, or does that require something special to get those definitions into the file
2016-01-18T03:00:18Z learning: oooooh swapping with the iso format seemed to work
2016-01-18T03:05:13Z Heranort: is CL suitable for natural language processing? i'm going to learn that course in my university.
2016-01-18T03:05:42Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T03:05:49Z Heranort: professor recommended python, but i wanna try it with CL, my favorite.
2016-01-18T03:06:00Z PuercoPop: Heranort: sure, grammarly uses it
2016-01-18T03:06:26Z PuercoPop: Some of the code from the python NLP book is ported to CL here iiuc https://github.com/vseloved/cl-nlp
2016-01-18T03:06:32Z Heranort: PuercoPop That would be promising!
2016-01-18T03:08:10Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T03:10:26Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T03:10:56Z Heranort: I always wonder how these fantastic apps and desktop softwares been developed in CL and what's the ultimate GUI solution.
2016-01-18T03:11:18Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-18T03:11:36Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-18T03:11:48Z Heranort: and my world of CL remains in the text terminal.
2016-01-18T03:12:06Z Rptx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T03:12:41Z Zhivago: heranort: Personally, I'm inclined to say whatever derives from html5.
2016-01-18T03:13:29Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-18T03:13:34Z Heranort: Oh yeah, i remind my professor told me the html5 is more promising than desktop gui tools.
2016-01-18T03:14:26Z Zhivago: Certainly in terms of integration.
2016-01-18T03:15:07Z learning: have you worked with css
2016-01-18T03:15:25Z Heranort: nope. I hate the "<" and ">"
2016-01-18T03:15:44Z learning: are you talking abotu <html> <body>?
2016-01-18T03:15:46Z Heranort: seems there
2016-01-18T03:15:53Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T03:16:10Z Heranort: is a long way to go...
2016-01-18T03:17:12Z Heranort: learning i don't know even a bit about html and css. my thoughts about html is just <html> and <body>..
2016-01-18T03:17:51Z learning: css is a seperate format to define the style (the look) of the document
2016-01-18T03:18:28Z learning: you reference/load it from your html files
2016-01-18T03:19:09Z Heranort: learning generally speaking, is it possible to use them to native develop desktop apps without hanging it on the web?
2016-01-18T03:19:09Z learning: with lisp you dont need to write any of those <> tags, you can just use an xml library to generate those files for you
2016-01-18T03:19:20Z Heranort: impressive!
2016-01-18T03:19:32Z learning: (:html (:body (:p "hello world")))
2016-01-18T03:19:49Z Heranort: yeah, that is what called DSL, right?
2016-01-18T03:19:53Z learning: instead of <html><body><p>hello world</p></body></html>
2016-01-18T03:20:22Z learning: i guess, that's a bit of a stretch though, its just an abstraction for xml, which is a very simple tree structure
2016-01-18T03:20:30Z White_Flame: Heranort: http://ceramic.github.io/
2016-01-18T03:20:58Z Heranort: White_Flame I've been looking at this already
2016-01-18T03:21:08Z learning: you can run any html file in your browser
2016-01-18T03:22:11Z Heranort: White_Flame but it wouldn't possible that all the apps are developed using ceramic. there should be another way i guess, some commercial and more official supported approach.
2016-01-18T03:22:37Z learning: i wouldn't worry about stuff like that until you already have something working
2016-01-18T03:22:39Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T03:22:41Z White_Flame: you were asking about using HTML type UIs to deploy native desktop apps, right?
2016-01-18T03:22:50Z Heranort: sure.
2016-01-18T03:22:56Z White_Flame: well, there it is :)
2016-01-18T03:23:24Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-18T03:24:24Z Heranort: White_Flame right. so this is one for Lisp. and for another language there should be some other approaches?
2016-01-18T03:24:53Z White_Flame: ceramic builds off a JavaScript based system, so yeah
2016-01-18T03:25:09Z White_Flame: and then there's just using something like WebKit raw
2016-01-18T03:27:06Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-18T03:28:08Z Heranort: White_Flame: so that is the general app developing paradigm just as many commercial companies do, use JS or some WebKit to get the core work graphically?
2016-01-18T03:29:41Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T03:30:19Z White_Flame: there's really no "general paradigm".  Tons of sectors use different mechanisms
2016-01-18T03:30:41Z White_Flame: there's also lots of pop culture around trendy systems that come & go often
2016-01-18T03:31:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T03:31:12Z Heranort: Oh, I understand, thanks.
2016-01-18T03:32:05Z Heranort: so what i should exactly care about is how to develop the core algorithm, not the implementation.
2016-01-18T03:34:34Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-18T03:41:18Z White_Flame: you should write your code to be agnostic to UI decisions
2016-01-18T03:43:00Z Warlock_29A: Hi all. I have list like (a (b) (c)) and i want add new elements in inner elements, for example (a (b (d) (e)) (c)). How must i do it right? Do I need recreate it fully?
2016-01-18T03:50:05Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-18T03:50:15Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-18T03:51:31Z beach: Warlock_29A: [reading the logs] No, you can destructively update the list.
2016-01-18T03:52:42Z pillton: beach: Good morning. Thanks for the link.
2016-01-18T03:53:14Z beach: pillton: Sure.  Hope it helps.  The documentation is ALMOST complete now.
2016-01-18T03:53:54Z pillton: beach: Great. I'll have to take a look.
2016-01-18T03:53:55Z guiloooo_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-18T03:54:46Z jsgrant: beach: Good evening, beach.
2016-01-18T03:54:52Z White_Flame: Warlock_29A: you could treat is as an a-list and push to the ASSOC of 'b
2016-01-18T03:56:01Z Warlock_29A: Thank's for answer! I will try :)
2016-01-18T04:01:15Z guiloooo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T04:02:19Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-18T04:08:46Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-18T04:15:35Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-18T04:16:41Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-18T04:19:34Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-18T04:20:08Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T04:29:19Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-18T04:37:53Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-18T04:40:38Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-18T04:40:54Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T04:54:06Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T04:54:36Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T04:55:09Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-18T04:55:10Z TMM quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-18T04:55:37Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-18T04:55:48Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T04:56:49Z calher quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-18T04:59:28Z ThePhoeron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T04:59:41Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:00:32Z calher joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:05:58Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:06:24Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-18T05:06:27Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:09:56Z jsgrant quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-18T05:12:06Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:13:32Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-18T05:15:15Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:17:51Z tcr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T05:20:15Z kaleun joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:20:46Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:23:29Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T05:27:55Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T05:31:55Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-18T05:38:10Z RobinTheHood joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:40:30Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T05:41:42Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:44:00Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:44:15Z gyro_ quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-18T05:46:16Z Heranort quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-18T05:46:48Z trinitr01 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T05:49:46Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-18T05:50:35Z trinitr0n quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T05:57:11Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:00:40Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:01:07Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:02:14Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:04:25Z qubitnerd quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-18T06:06:35Z smokeink quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T06:06:56Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:12:48Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T06:14:00Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T06:15:37Z trinitr01 is now known as trinitr0n
2016-01-18T06:18:36Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:21:10Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-18T06:21:10Z learning quit
2016-01-18T06:29:52Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T06:31:49Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:34:22Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-18T06:40:22Z RobinTheHood left #lisp
2016-01-18T06:40:38Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T06:42:26Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:42:27Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:42:35Z troydm joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:45:04Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:46:41Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:47:58Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T06:49:38Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T06:54:48Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T06:55:26Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-18T07:00:36Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T07:08:06Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T07:09:46Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:09:54Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T07:13:07Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:18:31Z Qudit314159 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:23:34Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:25:43Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:26:14Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-18T07:29:17Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:29:30Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:29:57Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:30:49Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:30:50Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:31:03Z Xof quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T07:31:32Z Xof joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:37:25Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:44:59Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T07:48:31Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:50:12Z waressearcher2: really
2016-01-18T07:51:06Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:51:15Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-18T07:56:55Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T07:59:13Z Qudit314159 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T08:02:50Z loke_: White_Flame: push to assoc? How? ASSOC does not have a SETF function.
2016-01-18T08:03:31Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:04:58Z White_Flame: (push item (cdr (assoc 'b list)))
2016-01-18T08:05:20Z White_Flame: however, the posted example actually woudln't work with ASSOC given that not all of its elements are conses
2016-01-18T08:05:56Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:10:06Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T08:10:09Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:12:12Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T08:16:06Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:19:49Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T08:20:52Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-18T08:25:44Z DeadTrickster: I'm using lparallel with sbcl --disable-debugger. when worker dies sbcl exits too. Any ideas?
2016-01-18T08:26:17Z DeadTrickster: looks like lparallel just lets thread dies and this triggers sbcl
2016-01-18T08:26:32Z DeadTrickster: maybe I'm missing some option or setting?
2016-01-18T08:28:32Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:29:22Z cadadar_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:32:16Z igam joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:32:41Z gom` joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:32:55Z Petit_Dejeuner: White_Flame: Oh boy, a key-value stack.
2016-01-18T08:33:17Z gom` quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-18T08:33:27Z Petit_Dejeuner: I think Land of Lisp uses that for something.
2016-01-18T08:34:06Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T08:34:24Z igam left #lisp
2016-01-18T08:34:31Z igam joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:36:09Z cadadar_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T08:36:42Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:36:58Z igam quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-18T08:37:23Z igam joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:40:44Z cadadar_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:41:36Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-18T08:42:31Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:45:33Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:45:47Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:47:08Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:47:36Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:52:03Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:54:40Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-18T08:55:24Z Guest12240 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T09:04:53Z dim: DeadTrickster: see http://lparallel.org/api/kernel/ and *debug-tasks-p*
2016-01-18T09:06:10Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:11:05Z knobo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:11:33Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:11:47Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:11:56Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T09:15:26Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:16:37Z quazimodo quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-18T09:17:36Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T09:21:41Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:21:57Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:24:30Z JitanRo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T09:25:05Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:25:09Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:25:49Z iskander quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-18T09:26:13Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:34:30Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:34:34Z zch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T09:36:33Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:37:34Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:39:13Z DeadTrickster: dim, this doesn't help since setting debug-tasks-p to nil simply transfers error. Looks like the only options is to wrap code in ignore-errors
2016-01-18T09:39:20Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:40:09Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:43:45Z leedleLoo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:44:35Z leedleLoo left #lisp
2016-01-18T09:48:23Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:48:55Z dim: the doc for that also introduces task-handler-bind
2016-01-18T09:49:44Z dim: and don't use ignore-errors, rather use (hander-case ... (condition (c) (log-message :error "thread exit in error: ~a" c))) or something like that
2016-01-18T09:51:54Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T09:53:57Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:56:11Z JitanRo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T09:56:11Z gniourf quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-18T09:59:14Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-18T09:59:57Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-18T10:05:18Z freehck joined #lisp
2016-01-18T10:07:15Z zadock joined #lisp
2016-01-18T10:07:27Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-18T10:07:37Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T10:12:54Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T10:13:47Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T10:14:02Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-18T10:15:31Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T10:22:07Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-18T10:25:44Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-18T10:27:13Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-18T10:34:45Z yvm: How do I use property list modern way?
2016-01-18T10:35:15Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T10:35:40Z yvm: Is there a functions which handle plists, not a symbol which points to plist?
2016-01-18T10:36:48Z mtl_: yvm: what do you mean by "modern way"?
2016-01-18T10:37:11Z yvm: I knew somebody will ask it.
2016-01-18T10:37:26Z yvm: Without set.
2016-01-18T10:37:34Z yvm: set is deprecated, wight?
2016-01-18T10:37:39Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-18T10:37:45Z yvm: Declaratively.
2016-01-18T10:38:14Z yvm: s/w/r/
2016-01-18T10:39:07Z yvm: For example I want non-destructive remf. Like remove, but for plist.
2016-01-18T10:43:37Z flip214: yvm: use COPY-LIST before calling REMF.
2016-01-18T10:43:58Z yvm: Kind of kludge.
2016-01-18T10:44:24Z scymtym_: alexandria:remove-from-plist
2016-01-18T10:44:48Z yvm: Ah, alexandria. Of course.
2016-01-18T10:44:52Z yvm: Thanks.
2016-01-18T10:45:37Z Cymew: If you want to be "modern" don't use property lists at all.
2016-01-18T10:46:06Z yvm: Why?
2016-01-18T10:49:00Z flip214: because plists are more "modern"
2016-01-18T10:51:49Z yvm: plists are more modern then property lists? Ok.
2016-01-18T10:52:49Z ralt: I wonder if someone wrote an init system in lisp
2016-01-18T10:52:55Z ralt: with a built-in swank server
2016-01-18T10:53:04Z ralt: so that you could connect an REPL to it
2016-01-18T10:53:08Z ralt: and manage services and stuff
2016-01-18T10:53:24Z yvm: Guix SD possibly has it. But I'm not sure.
2016-01-18T10:54:10Z ralt: doesn't guix manage the packages only?
2016-01-18T10:54:36Z ralt: ah, SD is a distribution
2016-01-18T10:59:38Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-18T11:01:00Z Cymew: eh? Is plists a new thing and not just an abbreviation of property lists?
2016-01-18T11:01:19Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-18T11:03:52Z yvm: plist = property list. I don't know what that sentence mean and why I should not use plists.
2016-01-18T11:04:11Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-18T11:04:27Z ralt: it's all about the buzzwords
2016-01-18T11:11:33Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T11:19:16Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T11:21:13Z troydm joined #lisp
2016-01-18T11:25:19Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-18T11:29:18Z synchromesh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T11:29:33Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-18T11:35:45Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-18T11:40:57Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-18T11:41:18Z zch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T11:43:30Z radioninja_work quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-18T11:53:26Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T11:55:45Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T11:56:13Z Cymew: yvm: plists was used more back in maclisp. These days I seldom see anyone use them. I have no idea why they are in alexandria.
2016-01-18T11:56:38Z Cymew: OTOH, I don't use Alexandria so I'm the odd one out.
2016-01-18T11:59:19Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T11:59:23Z H4ns: you don't want to use "symbol property lists".  "property lists" are just fine.
2016-01-18T11:59:53Z varjag: i use both
2016-01-18T12:00:22Z H4ns: i attest you bad taste and poor judgement of tools.  but that is just me and you can ignore me freely.
2016-01-18T12:01:44Z varjag: yeah i know better
2016-01-18T12:02:17Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-18T12:04:35Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T12:04:47Z Cymew: Ah, that might be the cause for confusion,  there plists are not the same as the symbol property lists.
2016-01-18T12:06:51Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T12:08:45Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-18T12:09:18Z igam: I say you can use symbol plists all you want, on your own symbols, if that's adapted to the purpose.
2016-01-18T12:09:59Z H4ns: Cymew: correct.  plist is short for property list, and symbols have a property list attached to them.
2016-01-18T12:16:10Z varjag: symbol-plist is a plist with real estate
2016-01-18T12:16:42Z varjag: it's like snail vs slug
2016-01-18T12:17:01Z varjag: both are viable, but one is philosophically incomplete
2016-01-18T12:17:46Z waressearcher2: is racket another form of lisp ?
2016-01-18T12:18:15Z djh: yes, scheme-based
2016-01-18T12:18:38Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-18T12:19:09Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T12:19:27Z waressearcher2: why it wasn't enough "scheme" to create another form of lisp ?
2016-01-18T12:20:11Z loke: Because Scheme is all about playing around with the latest is functional language theory?
2016-01-18T12:21:23Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-18T12:23:20Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-18T12:23:25Z phadthai: plists may be useful if you need multiple matches/bindings, or if you want to easily temporarily override custom bindings
2016-01-18T12:24:21Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-18T12:25:38Z JitanRo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T12:25:56Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-18T12:27:39Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-18T12:28:53Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-18T12:35:54Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T12:41:46Z radioninja_work quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-18T12:50:44Z lucasb joined #lisp
2016-01-18T12:56:29Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-18T13:00:34Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-18T13:04:58Z phoe_krk: I just remembered
2016-01-18T13:05:21Z phoe_krk: I was trying to write a simple description generator for NPCs in a certain RPG.
2016-01-18T13:05:30Z phoe_krk: I tried doing that in C.
2016-01-18T13:05:40Z phoe_krk: Holy hell, that was tough and tragic. ;-;
2016-01-18T13:05:53Z phoe_krk: Pointers everywhere instead of working with text pieces and grammar.
2016-01-18T13:06:13Z phoe_krk: I want to try again, this time, the pleasurable way.
2016-01-18T13:06:33Z Zhivago: It's probably relatively straight-forward in C, if done properly.
2016-01-18T13:07:05Z Zhivago: Try using an emit-receive based system.
2016-01-18T13:08:05Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T13:08:13Z Zhivago: (The same advice applies in CL, although it is easier, given things like string-streams and specials)
2016-01-18T13:08:45Z phoe_krk: Emit-receive?
2016-01-18T13:09:24Z phoe_krk: I was thinking more along the line of a regular grammar generator.
2016-01-18T13:09:54Z phoe_krk: That constructs sentences based on a set of prefabs, words, sentence structures.
2016-01-18T13:09:56Z Zhivago: Have something to which you can emit your description piece-wise.
2016-01-18T13:10:14Z Zhivago: And then have something which receives those emissions, and can do something about them afterward.
2016-01-18T13:10:39Z phoe_krk: We might be talking about the same thing, but from different perspectives.
2016-01-18T13:10:43Z phoe_krk: Top-down, bottom-up.
2016-01-18T13:13:19Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T13:13:50Z phoe_krk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Basic_english_syntax_tree.svg <- I was thinking of something along these lines.
2016-01-18T13:15:57Z zacts quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T13:17:14Z freehck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T13:19:08Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-18T13:21:27Z scottj left #lisp
2016-01-18T13:22:53Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-18T13:25:27Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-18T13:32:06Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T13:36:19Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-18T13:36:54Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T13:41:19Z fu7mu4 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T13:48:32Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T13:48:43Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T13:50:21Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2016-01-18T13:53:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T13:54:04Z Heranort quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-18T13:56:52Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:04:36Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:05:16Z cmatei quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T14:08:24Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:09:34Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:10:29Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T14:10:53Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:12:12Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:16:55Z kaleun quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T14:19:44Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:22:36Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-18T14:23:22Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T14:25:11Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T14:26:11Z fu7mu4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T14:28:21Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:29:38Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:33:35Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T14:34:13Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:34:47Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:36:33Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:46:41Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-18T14:55:39Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T14:58:27Z strcmp1 quit (Quit: peace)
2016-01-18T15:00:03Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:00:36Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:00:37Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-18T15:00:37Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:01:53Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:01:57Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-18T15:01:58Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:02:05Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-18T15:03:17Z vaitel joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:05:49Z JitanRo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T15:08:18Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:08:26Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:09:17Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:10:25Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:14:04Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:16:52Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T15:19:38Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-18T15:24:44Z radioninja_work quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-18T15:28:39Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-18T15:30:05Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:32:20Z Xach_ is now known as Xach
2016-01-18T15:32:26Z Xach quit (Changing host)
2016-01-18T15:32:26Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:35:18Z shibly joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:35:26Z shibly left #lisp
2016-01-18T15:37:49Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:39:10Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:41:00Z eudoxia quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-18T15:47:15Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T15:49:19Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:50:04Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:50:13Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-18T15:51:12Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:52:47Z vap1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-18T15:53:51Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2016-01-18T15:54:06Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-18T15:58:28Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T15:58:55Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:00:14Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T16:00:28Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:01:23Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:02:43Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:03:17Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:03:27Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-18T16:04:10Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T16:05:15Z lucasb quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-18T16:05:24Z cadadar_ left #lisp
2016-01-18T16:06:18Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:06:18Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-18T16:07:43Z voidlily quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T16:08:22Z voidlily joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:09:41Z flip214 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:10:13Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T16:11:15Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:14:14Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:15:48Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:17:38Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-18T16:21:05Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:21:28Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-18T16:22:15Z flip214 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:22:16Z flip214 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-18T16:22:16Z flip214 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:23:53Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:24:06Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:25:37Z over is now known as Guest63241
2016-01-18T16:26:07Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:26:46Z Warlock[29A] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:28:59Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:31:06Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:31:08Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:34:23Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:35:23Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:35:26Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:40:26Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:43:05Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T16:45:42Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:51:19Z learning joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:53:14Z learning: is their a current goto library for 3d graphics? i'm slowly learning opengl but i'd like to be able to play around with ideas before i wrap my head around the entire graphics pipeline.
2016-01-18T16:55:02Z learning: cliki shows there are bindings for a couple graphics engines like horde, but I was just wondering if there's one library that seems to be more popular than the others
2016-01-18T16:55:23Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:57:03Z contrapunctus: learning: https://github.com/lispgames/lispgames.github.io/wiki/CommonLisp
2016-01-18T16:57:49Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T16:57:55Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T16:57:56Z contrapunctus: learning: (but that's just a list, too; a go-to recommendation is best left to the vets)
2016-01-18T16:58:08Z learning: that actually helps a lot
2016-01-18T16:58:16Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T16:58:20Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:58:26Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-18T16:58:32Z learning: "clinch" didn't come up on my cliki browsing, but appears to be the most well maintained
2016-01-18T16:58:49Z learning: and is the first listed on the link you gave me, so thank you
2016-01-18T16:59:14Z contrapunctus: learning: glad to be of help. There's also CEPL, but it's (apparently) alpha https://github.com/cbaggers/cepl
2016-01-18T17:01:59Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T17:02:06Z feep quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T17:02:36Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T17:03:27Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:04:00Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:10:06Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T17:14:49Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:20:22Z caffeinic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T17:23:35Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:26:45Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-18T17:26:47Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-18T17:30:21Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:30:42Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:32:02Z shka: is there anything like (with-unit-tests ) macro is some library?
2016-01-18T17:32:20Z shka: i just want to setf dynamic variable
2016-01-18T17:32:36Z shka: and run unit tests after compiling this form if variable is t
2016-01-18T17:32:43Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:32:54Z shka: not sure how handy that would be
2016-01-18T17:34:22Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-18T17:34:45Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:35:31Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:36:14Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:37:33Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:37:41Z Mitzelflick: switch everything to lisp
2016-01-18T17:38:08Z Mitzelflick: software creation so slow n bad here @work wow
2016-01-18T17:48:29Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T17:51:57Z feep joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:54:57Z developernotes joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:55:35Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T17:57:45Z gingerale- joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:58:49Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-18T17:59:28Z gingerale quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-18T17:59:30Z gingerale- is now known as gingerale
2016-01-18T18:04:02Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-18T18:06:02Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-18T18:10:03Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:11:11Z phoe6 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:11:26Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-18T18:12:04Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:13:09Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-18T18:16:49Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:16:56Z wlad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T18:18:12Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:19:45Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T18:21:38Z vap1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-18T18:21:42Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:23:37Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T18:26:25Z contrapunctus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T18:27:06Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T18:28:40Z rme joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:29:11Z sheilong joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:30:59Z learning quit
2016-01-18T18:40:07Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T18:41:38Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:45:58Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:47:35Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T18:47:50Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T18:48:35Z jaykru joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:49:26Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T18:53:49Z Mitzelflick: I am slowly learning how to not lose.
2016-01-18T18:54:17Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:54:20Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-18T18:54:39Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:58:12Z optikalmouse: Mitzelflick: bitcoin investor eh?
2016-01-18T18:58:46Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T18:59:03Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T18:59:08Z Mitzelflick: nop
2016-01-18T18:59:15Z Mitzelflick: linux consultant
2016-01-18T18:59:15Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T18:59:22Z Mitzelflick: I should go into another field
2016-01-18T18:59:25Z Mitzelflick: I am poor
2016-01-18T19:02:12Z Petit_Dejeuner: Just make the next ViaWeb. Then spend the rest of your life blogging and running a social media site.
2016-01-18T19:02:35Z optikalmouse: linux consultant? you shouldnt be poor
2016-01-18T19:02:41Z optikalmouse: just learn javascript and all the devops tools
2016-01-18T19:02:45Z Mitzelflick: poor is relative
2016-01-18T19:02:50Z optikalmouse: :D
2016-01-18T19:02:53Z Petit_Dejeuner: Move to a different country?
2016-01-18T19:02:58Z Mitzelflick: thailand?
2016-01-18T19:04:48Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:07:08Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:09:57Z Mitzelflick: abstract away the web problem
2016-01-18T19:10:23Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:12:08Z JuanitoJons quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T19:12:32Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:13:44Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-18T19:13:55Z cmatei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T19:14:18Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T19:14:29Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:14:37Z Mitzelflick: are there any nice little graphing unix lisp programs?
2016-01-18T19:14:47Z Mitzelflick: something that will consume output of unix logfile ec
2016-01-18T19:14:49Z Mitzelflick: etc
2016-01-18T19:15:37Z Mitzelflick: http://cliki.net/  not sure where to find...
2016-01-18T19:15:52Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:18:18Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:18:57Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:19:20Z sweater is now known as Guest5337
2016-01-18T19:26:25Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:26:59Z JuanitoJons quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T19:27:27Z PuercoPop: anyone got an idea why would clack would complain about being unable to destructuring-bind a response but show the page anyway? It complains on multiple backends about the same, () unable to match (status-code headers &optional body)
2016-01-18T19:30:41Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-18T19:32:50Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:33:33Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:34:36Z phax quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-18T19:35:43Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:36:07Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T19:38:55Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T19:39:51Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:40:22Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:46:54Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:49:54Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-18T19:50:20Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:52:38Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-18T19:53:20Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T19:59:57Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:01:58Z ggole quit
2016-01-18T20:05:34Z mdemont quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T20:11:05Z circuitCarre joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:16:07Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T20:16:23Z jchmrt quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T20:19:06Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-18T20:19:22Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-18T20:21:34Z jchmrt joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:29:05Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T20:34:12Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T20:34:29Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-18T20:37:14Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:38:37Z BitPuffin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T20:38:38Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:39:06Z Guest5337 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T20:42:12Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:42:26Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:45:56Z shikhin is now known as shikijika
2016-01-18T20:46:06Z shikijika is now known as shikhin
2016-01-18T20:46:13Z Guest5337 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:48:32Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T20:50:47Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T20:52:21Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:55:03Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:55:12Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:56:32Z EvW quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-18T20:56:37Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-18T20:59:24Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-18T21:03:03Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-18T21:03:22Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-18T21:03:29Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T21:03:54Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:08:00Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:08:13Z circuitCarre quit (Quit: circuitCarre)
2016-01-18T21:11:12Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T21:11:22Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-18T21:11:38Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:11:53Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:12:06Z kenanb: I've some historical question, tho it might be better suited for a mailing list: is there a specific reason :included-flavors and :required-flavors are not added to CLOS as class options, also why CLOS prevents definition of classes with cyclic class precedence lists while Flavors allowed them.
2016-01-18T21:13:22Z phoe6 left #lisp
2016-01-18T21:14:45Z kenanb: the answer to the second question is probably either letting implementation specific optimizations in calculation of slot inheritance and method combination or consistency between the behaviour of superclasses and subclasses, since if they are allowed to be cyclic, the ordering can be completely different between the superclass and subclass
2016-01-18T21:15:58Z salih666 joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:16:11Z zacts joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:17:13Z Bike: what would included-flavors and required-flavors do
2016-01-18T21:17:36Z Bike: and CLOS wasn't intended to be exactly compatible with flavors, just to make transitioning a bit less complicated
2016-01-18T21:17:38Z kenanb: but I think :included-flavors and :required-flavors, even other :required- options of Flavors are very meaningful when using a mixin-based approach to defining classes
2016-01-18T21:18:16Z ssake__ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-18T21:18:47Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:19:33Z kenanb: Bike: I know it wasn't intended to be, but Flavors was a reference, so they intentionally excluded the features, I am wondering if it is because they are somehow proven to be misfeatures
2016-01-18T21:19:37Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:22:49Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-18T21:22:53Z kenanb: Bike: http://franz.com/support/documentation/9.0/doc/flavors.htm#8.0%20Defflavor%20options
2016-01-18T21:23:55Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T21:25:54Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:25:56Z kenanb: Bike: in a nutshell, mixin that required a flavor signals error, if its subclass that is instantiated doesn't subclass the particular required flavor,
2016-01-18T21:26:05Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-18T21:27:11Z kenanb: Bike: included-flavors on the other hand, silently adds the included flavor in a predictable position in class precedence list if it is not already there
2016-01-18T21:28:51Z kenanb: Bike: both of them are used in cases that a mixin requires the existence of a class in the instance, but shouldn't be responsible for its position in the slot inheritance and method combination
2016-01-18T21:29:52Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:30:41Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:31:23Z kenanb: normally, that is not an extremely necessary feature, but when creating true mixins, I think these features are really important
2016-01-18T21:31:31Z tcr joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:32:27Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:32:50Z Prion_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T21:34:42Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-18T21:36:10Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T21:36:40Z kenanb: I am not complaining btw, I read the whole specification of Flavors, IMHO CLOS is much more mature than Flavors, provides a much simpler and more generic interface, the only Flavors features that are absent and would actually be meaningful in the context of CLOS I was able to find are those mixin related features
2016-01-18T21:38:30Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T21:38:55Z kenanb: Flavors seems to approach mixins as an essential part of OOP while CLOS choses to support them through multiple inheritance, while not necessarily encouraging it
2016-01-18T21:41:29Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:43:34Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:44:21Z Mitzelflick: oo programming is the roman numerals of computing -Rob Pike
2016-01-18T21:44:49Z calher: Mitzelflick: What're the Arabic nums of computing?
2016-01-18T21:46:29Z Mitzelflick: functional!
2016-01-18T21:46:53Z calher quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T21:48:04Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-18T21:51:01Z shka: kenanb: iirc flavors is a lot older system
2016-01-18T21:51:03Z knicklux quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T21:51:08Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:51:13Z shka: and clos was based not just on flavors
2016-01-18T21:51:20Z kenanb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T21:51:33Z shka: but also on few other object systems
2016-01-18T21:52:40Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-18T21:54:30Z mtl_: yeah from what I know about flavors it was based on message passing and closures
2016-01-18T21:55:44Z Mitzelflick: hmm
2016-01-18T21:55:47Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T21:55:53Z Mitzelflick: I don't know oo, so am fearful.
2016-01-18T22:01:09Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:06:16Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:06:22Z nggrfggr joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:07:24Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T22:07:28Z nggrfggr: Any cl-fuse experts here? I need some help regarding the file-read function
2016-01-18T22:10:43Z _JusSx_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:11:08Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T22:11:09Z _JusSx_: Hi can you show my how to write fold ocaml function in lisp?
2016-01-18T22:11:30Z _JusSx_: i mean in recursive way.
2016-01-18T22:13:12Z _JusSx_: http://pastebin.com/FPTkaKcL i wrote it this way
2016-01-18T22:13:20Z _JusSx_: but it isnt' recursive
2016-01-18T22:13:39Z mtl_: _JusSx_: hang on
2016-01-18T22:14:46Z user1212` joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:15:11Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:15:54Z mtl_: _JusSx_: isn't reduce the same thing as fold though? :)
2016-01-18T22:16:15Z user121243 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T22:16:27Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T22:17:31Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: go ahead and implement
2016-01-18T22:17:58Z LiamH: I find load-time-value a little mind bending, interested in seeing how it's done.
2016-01-18T22:18:22Z _JusSx_: yeah
2016-01-18T22:19:00Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: ok, I'll look into it, but probably only tomorrow
2016-01-18T22:19:15Z _JusSx_: mtl: http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/libref/List.html look the definition here fold_left or fold_right
2016-01-18T22:19:15Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T22:19:27Z mtl_: _JusSx_: http://pastie.org/10693696
2016-01-18T22:19:37Z mtl_: that's a very basic one
2016-01-18T22:19:40Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: OK, sounds good - I'm iterested in seeing how it's done.
2016-01-18T22:19:41Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:19:48Z _JusSx_: http://pastebin.com/exzd7zC9
2016-01-18T22:21:09Z _JusSx_: mtl: thanks but i can't understand funcall
2016-01-18T22:21:57Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:22:01Z mtl_: _JusSx_: it calls the function with the first item in the list and the result of folding the rest of the list
2016-01-18T22:23:11Z _JusSx_: yeah i know
2016-01-18T22:23:20Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:23:21Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T22:23:29Z _JusSx_: but i i mean why does it call fold function too?
2016-01-18T22:24:02Z mtl_: _JusSx_: put that definition into your lisp
2016-01-18T22:24:08Z mtl_: do (trace fold)
2016-01-18T22:24:09Z mtl_: and test it
2016-01-18T22:24:41Z _JusSx_: i should use (cdr list) instead of list in last fold call
2016-01-18T22:24:44Z mtl_: then, maybe it will be clear
2016-01-18T22:24:55Z _JusSx_: ok i will try
2016-01-18T22:25:15Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T22:25:24Z mtl_: _JusSx_: yes, you need to reduce the size of the list with each call, or you'll end up in an infinite loop
2016-01-18T22:26:10Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:26:18Z Fyodosto quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T22:29:02Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:33:25Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T22:34:13Z _JusSx_: mtl; Does funcall call first f and then fold?
2016-01-18T22:34:33Z mtl_: no, first fold and then f
2016-01-18T22:35:22Z _JusSx_: ok i understood
2016-01-18T22:35:38Z mtl_: _JusSx_: you could also do (fold f (funcall f acc (car list) (cdr list))
2016-01-18T22:35:47Z mtl_: that's the tail recursive version
2016-01-18T22:36:05Z _JusSx_: (fold... for getting the inital value to give to f
2016-01-18T22:36:09Z _JusSx_: ok thanks
2016-01-18T22:36:22Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-18T22:36:55Z salih666 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-18T22:40:20Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:40:52Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-18T22:41:17Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T22:41:35Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T22:45:46Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T22:48:41Z _JusSx_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T22:52:59Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-18T22:53:13Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:57:00Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T22:57:39Z developernotes quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T22:58:07Z developernotes joined #lisp
2016-01-18T22:59:44Z developernotes quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-18T23:00:10Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:00:29Z Fyodosto quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-18T23:00:42Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-18T23:00:44Z vlnx quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-18T23:02:11Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-18T23:02:17Z vlnx joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:04:34Z PuercoPop: attila_lendvai: how does hu.dwim.web-server compare to hunchentoot, any particular reason you rolled your own instead of using hunchentoot?
2016-01-18T23:04:56Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-18T23:04:59Z mordocai: PuercoPop: 'cause that's the lisp way, duh :P
2016-01-18T23:05:01Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-18T23:06:16Z kenanb: does anybody actually use <class-name> convention, I didn't even know such convention exists before seeing this document: http://labs.ariel-networks.com/cl-style-guide.html
2016-01-18T23:06:32Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: ht came later, and we were also more concerned about efficiency than ht. hdws evolved somewhat organically, out of my work on UCW. we went live in a hurry with UCW in our first project, and had a nightmare for a week or two until we cut out all things we didn't need
2016-01-18T23:07:02Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:08:21Z mordocai: kenanb: I am far from experienced in Common Lisp but so far I haven't seen that at all
2016-01-18T23:08:37Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-18T23:09:20Z kenanb: I believe these are just styles recommended by that particular company, not actually conventions, still, all other naming recommendations are conventions except the class one, so I figured maybe it actually is a recent convention or something
2016-01-18T23:09:47Z kenanb: mordocai: then its probably just a style recommendation
2016-01-18T23:10:00Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:10:49Z kolko joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:11:35Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T23:11:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:12:14Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-18T23:12:22Z PuercoPop: attila_lendvai: I thought ht was from 2002. is hu.dwim.web-server based on the UCW codebase then? I think I'll give ht a try, i don't like clack for interactive development much
2016-01-18T23:13:09Z PuercoPop: kenanb: the convention comes from Dylan IIRC, few people use it.
2016-01-18T23:13:47Z attila_lendvai: PuercoPop: there's much more buzz behind ht, I think that's a reasonable choice. hdws is somewhat unbaked... the current codebase never really went into a production system
2016-01-18T23:13:51Z angavrilov_ joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:13:52Z angavrilov quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-18T23:15:00Z attila_lendvai: especially if you are only playing around. and when you put out a seriously used web service then you cannot have the luxury of not knowing the server you're using all the way to the bottom anyways... and then you'll know what suits you better.
2016-01-18T23:15:04Z kenanb: PuercoPop: yes I've seen it in OpenDylan docs but weird seeing it in CL
2016-01-18T23:16:12Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: is there some fundamental reason why there's a separate libffi-win32.lisp and a libffi-unix.lisp? (as opposed to using some #+- conditionals)
2016-01-18T23:17:30Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: No. I was copying something else and I don't know it it made sense in that system, but I don't think it does here, as there is a lot of overlap.
2016-01-18T23:18:05Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: ok, I'll look into that too in a separate commit later
2016-01-18T23:18:13Z LiamH: and "win32" as a name is wrong as 64 bit is supported, I think.
2016-01-18T23:18:21Z attila_lendvai: (except that I cannot test windows... :/ )
2016-01-18T23:18:34Z LiamH: Neither can I. All that was contributed by others.
2016-01-18T23:18:54Z waressearcher2 left #lisp
2016-01-18T23:19:28Z LiamH: If you look through the commit log, you'll see who was doing the win32 version.
2016-01-18T23:21:32Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: In reading up more on load-time-value I see a bit better how it works. But I do still think luis made a mistake, the cache needs to be bound to a cons initially, not a symbol.
2016-01-18T23:22:33Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: I think you misread him. that symbol is in the CAR of the cons cell, as a marker for anyone debugging later on (only one place is needed for the cache)
2016-01-18T23:23:00Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:23:19Z LiamH: He wrote (let* ((cache (load-time-value 'prepared-function-cache nil))
2016-01-18T23:23:59Z LiamH: Should it be (let* ((cache (load-time-value (cons 'prepared-function-cache nil))?
2016-01-18T23:24:03Z attila_lendvai: that's a mistake. he meant (load-time-value (cons 'libffi-cif-cache nil))
2016-01-18T23:24:14Z LiamH: Righto
2016-01-18T23:24:55Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:25:15Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-18T23:25:21Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: do you see any reason to delay the make-cif call to runtime at the first call (as opposed to doing it at load time)?
2016-01-18T23:25:45Z attila_lendvai: I mean, is the sparing of a few bytes of memory worth it?
2016-01-18T23:26:02Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: I've been thinking about that. I don't think the prepare takes much time, so it doesn't seem like a problem.
2016-01-18T23:26:32Z attila_lendvai: because the make-libffi-type-descriptor call will still mess around with a hashtable cache for now... at compile time there's less contention
2016-01-18T23:26:58Z attila_lendvai: and it shouldn't be much space either... I'll just move it to load time
2016-01-18T23:27:27Z LiamH: So the foreign function prep will take place at load time now?
2016-01-18T23:27:45Z attila_lendvai: yes
2016-01-18T23:28:04Z attila_lendvai: unless there's a problem with that
2016-01-18T23:28:48Z LiamH: I don't see one. The foreign library has to be loaded at load time, and that's all you need.
2016-01-18T23:29:38Z LiamH: The only possible downside is if you have a boatload of foreign function definitions you don't actually use, then you waste time prepping them when they're never used.
2016-01-18T23:30:13Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: another thing I was wondering, why the need for the groveler? couldn't the libffi ffi be defined easily by hand? is there something I don't see?
2016-01-18T23:31:11Z LiamH: Why do things by hand when the computer will do it for you?
2016-01-18T23:31:44Z LiamH: There aren't many symbols defined, but in principle they could change.
2016-01-18T23:31:51Z attila_lendvai: well, the grovel file doesn't seem to be any shorter to me than the hand-written ffi would be
2016-01-18T23:32:16Z LiamH: It's not the length that's an issue, it's staying up to date, and on all platforms where libffi might be used.
2016-01-18T23:32:22Z attila_lendvai: the only issue I see is with #define's, but why would a mature ffi lib ever change its #define constants?
2016-01-18T23:33:18Z fe[nl]ix: because it's fullmoon the its developers start howling
2016-01-18T23:33:21Z attila_lendvai: and if they make changes to struct layout and stuff, then they'll increase the library major version, that will require lisp side changes anyways
2016-01-18T23:33:23Z LiamH: Adding new OSes, etc. I generally prefer to have one source for information, otherwise divergence can be a problem. I agree they don't change much.
2016-01-18T23:33:55Z attila_lendvai: fe[nl]ix: hehh :) so you say libffi should stick to groveling?
2016-01-18T23:34:03Z |3b|: does preparing the function interact with saving images?
2016-01-18T23:34:14Z |3b| doesn't remember if it does foreign allocation or not
2016-01-18T23:34:28Z fe[nl]ix: attila_lendvai: it's a smart idea
2016-01-18T23:34:32Z attila_lendvai: 3b, it's just some foreign-alloced memory
2016-01-18T23:34:38Z LiamH: |3b|: good question. Preparing does malloc.
2016-01-18T23:34:53Z |3b|: "just" as in "won't be there anymore when saved image is loaded"?
2016-01-18T23:34:58Z fe[nl]ix: it makes sense only for ABIs that are guaranteed to be stable
2016-01-18T23:35:06Z LiamH: |3b|: yes, I think so.
2016-01-18T23:35:07Z |3b|: if so, you need some way to recreate it
2016-01-18T23:35:25Z LiamH: |3b|: good point.
2016-01-18T23:35:34Z attila_lendvai: oh, right. foreign alloc is gone after an image reload... but then how on earth do I detect that?
2016-01-18T23:35:34Z |3b|: if it is on demand, you can just avoid calling any functions before saving, which is probably only way it will work for most FFI libs anyway
2016-01-18T23:35:38Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:35:43Z fe[nl]ix: attila_lendvai: in principle, somebody could translate the libc ABI to a json/xml/whatever file and have all language bindings use that
2016-01-18T23:36:30Z |3b|: i think most lisps have save and/or load hooks you could use to recreate them
2016-01-18T23:36:36Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: Do you think c2ffi could be used on libffi?
2016-01-18T23:36:50Z attila_lendvai: fe[nl]ix: you mean they way cffi/c2ffi does it, that I just wrote recently? :)
2016-01-18T23:36:56Z |3b| supported at least a few of them in cl-opengl, but don't remember any details
2016-01-18T23:38:07Z attila_lendvai: 3b, the question is how, because the current load-time-value created cons cell caches are not registered anywhere, and registering them would bring back the original issue of thread safety that was avoided
2016-01-18T23:38:22Z fe[nl]ix: attila_lendvai: almost. the output of c2ffi is as low-level as the input
2016-01-18T23:38:23Z |3b|: ah
2016-01-18T23:38:46Z fe[nl]ix: attila_lendvai: e.g. it doesn't group E* macros into an enum
2016-01-18T23:39:02Z |3b|: possibly locking would be less annoying at load-time than at runtime?
2016-01-18T23:39:06Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: it could be, but it wouldn't help much. the ffi is small to write by hand, and the issue fe[nl]ix brought up about full moons and C developers would apply there also
2016-01-18T23:39:26Z fe[nl]ix goes to sleep
2016-01-18T23:39:34Z |3b|: also probably less likely to be LOADing from multiple threads
2016-01-18T23:39:40Z attila_lendvai: what are E* macros?
2016-01-18T23:40:01Z LiamH: don't think you'll get an answer to that
2016-01-18T23:40:06Z LiamH: for a whil
2016-01-18T23:40:08Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-18T23:40:28Z attila_lendvai: oh, I think he meant extracting meaning from the flat structure, e.g. that a bunch of #define macro constants are an enum
2016-01-18T23:40:45Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-18T23:40:48Z fe[nl]ix: attila_lendvai: I wasn't joking. it can happen that developers figure that it makes the API more elegant if the zero value of an enum is something else, and change the entire enum
2016-01-18T23:41:06Z fe[nl]ix: attila_lendvai: the POSIX syscall errors: EINVAL, EINTR, etc...
2016-01-18T23:41:17Z attila_lendvai: fe[nl]ix: and they do that without increasing the major version?
2016-01-18T23:41:30Z fe[nl]ix: attila_lendvai: libffi devs have in the past done it
2016-01-18T23:41:48Z attila_lendvai always found people who extensively code in C weird...
2016-01-18T23:41:50Z fe[nl]ix: that's why gcc used to bundle a libffi
2016-01-18T23:42:12Z fe[nl]ix: they couldn't trust the system version
2016-01-18T23:42:50Z attila_lendvai: uh-oh... I just got a bit less enthusiastic about cffi/c2ffi
2016-01-18T23:43:23Z fe[nl]ix: it's very hard to do ABI compatibility in C because it's easy to subtly break ABI
2016-01-18T23:43:40Z attila_lendvai: fe[nl]ix: do you think the right way would be to generate a grovel file from the c2ffi output instead of a cffi binding?
2016-01-18T23:43:46Z fe[nl]ix: and the tools for automatic checking just don't exist in the open-source world
2016-01-18T23:44:10Z fe[nl]ix: attila_lendvai: for most libraries yes
2016-01-18T23:44:18Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:44:27Z fe[nl]ix: very few have developers knowledgeable and committed to ABI stability
2016-01-18T23:44:41Z attila_lendvai: ok, in v2.0 then. inline functions are already beyond it that would call for a grovel file
2016-01-18T23:44:42Z fe[nl]ix: libc is one
2016-01-18T23:44:54Z fe[nl]ix: and I'm talking about Linux
2016-01-18T23:45:35Z fe[nl]ix: in BSD land you're supposed to recompile the entire system at every major release
2016-01-18T23:45:39Z attila_lendvai: I'll extend cffi/c2ffi with an option to go through grovel files somewhere down the road
2016-01-18T23:45:53Z fe[nl]ix: that would be nice
2016-01-18T23:46:34Z attila_lendvai: I think that would also open a nice degree of freedom to handle struct by value without libffi
2016-01-18T23:46:37Z fe[nl]ix: OTOH, for what interests me, I'd like to have c2ffi bindings because IOlib only uses libc stuff
2016-01-18T23:47:05Z LiamH: attila_lendvai: how is that?
2016-01-18T23:47:23Z fe[nl]ix: anyway, good night
2016-01-18T23:47:38Z attila_lendvai: good night fe[nl]ix and thanks for the guidance!
2016-01-18T23:47:54Z LiamH: good night, and thanks for the insight!
2016-01-18T23:47:55Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-18T23:48:55Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:49:07Z attila_lendvai: LiamH: if I generate a c file that will call the c api, then I can put there whatever I want, e.g. transform the grovelled api to use struct pointers. although the return value is problematic, because the C stack goes away, but that can be handled on the lisp side giving a return value placeholder to the c function
2016-01-18T23:51:37Z LiamH: Oh I see. As long as we have cffi-libffi though it seems like it's easier to use it.
2016-01-18T23:52:20Z attila_lendvai: that depends... what I'm talking about would have none of the issues by design that I'm fixing now
2016-01-18T23:52:41Z attila_lendvai: but the tradeoffs are not obvious
2016-01-18T23:53:10Z Mitzelflick quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-18T23:53:38Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-18T23:56:09Z attila_lendvai: so, what happens if I put malloc'd pointers into e.g. a lisp hashtable, and then do an image save/restore?
2016-01-18T23:56:34Z attila_lendvai: they will point to some random place after the restore?
2016-01-18T23:57:10Z LiamH: That would be my guess
2016-01-18T23:57:54Z attila_lendvai: then I also need to get rid of the code that populates the other cache hashtable with the libffi descriptors for the builtin types...
2016-01-18T23:58:18Z attila_lendvai: maybe I should just drop that other cache and ignore the extra few bytes of repeated type descriptors?
2016-01-18T23:58:19Z LiamH: and substitute what?
2016-01-18T23:58:35Z LiamH: maybe
2016-01-18T23:58:36Z attila_lendvai: substitute it with lazy initialization
2016-01-18T23:58:46Z LiamH: At load time?
2016-01-18T23:59:28Z attila_lendvai: no, that is out of question. it needs to be done at first call, so that image save/restore may work at least if no ffi calls have been made
2016-01-19T00:00:07Z sz0 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:00:15Z jaykru quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:00:16Z attila_lendvai: or will have been made? I think this would be the first time I'd use that tense -- if it's valid, that is... :)
2016-01-19T00:00:33Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:00:40Z LiamH: I'm confused.
2016-01-19T00:00:41Z attila_lendvai: s/I'd use/I used/
2016-01-19T00:01:01Z LiamH: Done at first call so that no ffi calls will have been made?
2016-01-19T00:01:34Z attila_lendvai: anything malloc'd will be corrupted by a save/restore. if we malloc at first call, then the users can load everything, save and image, restart and run it.
2016-01-19T00:01:56Z attila_lendvai: *if* they don't make any ffi calls before the image save
2016-01-19T00:02:08Z LiamH: Oh I see.
2016-01-19T00:02:20Z attila_lendvai: a big can of worms it is
2016-01-19T00:02:25Z LiamH: Indeed.
2016-01-19T00:03:09Z LiamH: It's time for my dinner. Interesting discussion, to be conintued.
2016-01-19T00:03:38Z attila_lendvai: enjoy your dinner! I may head bedwards meanwhile
2016-01-19T00:06:56Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:07:26Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:07:47Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:12:06Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:12:54Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:14:21Z kenanb left #lisp
2016-01-19T00:18:38Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:20:29Z sheilong quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:20:58Z user1212` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:23:08Z jaykru joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:26:02Z JuanitoJons quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:27:12Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:28:20Z gyro joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:28:22Z sheilong joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:28:22Z gyro: ahh it's a wonderful day
2016-01-19T00:28:42Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:29:39Z voidengineer joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:33:48Z myrkraverk quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [SeaMonkey 2.39/20151103192036])
2016-01-19T00:38:52Z sjl__ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:40:19Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T00:40:35Z JuanitoJons quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:40:35Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:41:16Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:43:30Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-19T00:45:44Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-19T00:46:28Z Fyodosto quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T00:49:54Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T00:50:39Z sheilong quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-19T00:51:28Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:52:03Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T00:52:58Z warweasle: Can someone help me understand eval-when?
2016-01-19T00:53:44Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T00:54:16Z attila_lendvai: not unless you ask specific questions
2016-01-19T00:55:21Z warweasle: I'm trying to run some code (cepl) and It doesn't work if I put it into a function. I have no clue why.
2016-01-19T00:55:31Z warweasle: I assume eval-when has something to do with it.
2016-01-19T00:55:50Z phoe_krk: warweasle: what does the code do? can you give us some examples?
2016-01-19T00:57:32Z warweasle: phoe_krk: I'll post but I'm not sure if it will help...I really lost on this one.
2016-01-19T00:59:08Z warweasle: phoe_krk: Here you are: http://paste.lisp.org/+6JM3
2016-01-19T00:59:26Z pillton: warweasle: Examples always help. Being lost is fine. eval-when is tricky.
2016-01-19T00:59:42Z warweasle: Also, and this is weird, macroexpand works. But macroexpand-all fails.
2016-01-19T01:00:27Z warweasle: pillton: I can't make head/tails of the Hyperspec page.
2016-01-19T01:03:13Z pillton: warweasle: Well the errors is about the keyword :compile-time. It should be :compile-toplevel.
2016-01-19T01:03:14Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:03:37Z phoe_krk: let's sort the easy things fir--- oh, wait, what pillton said
2016-01-19T01:03:49Z phoe_krk: or :compile for short
2016-01-19T01:03:55Z phoe_krk: clhs eval-when
2016-01-19T01:03:55Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm
2016-01-19T01:03:56Z pillton: warweasle: That eval-when serves no purpose though since it is not a top level form.
2016-01-19T01:03:57Z warweasle: pillton: THANKS!
2016-01-19T01:04:16Z phoe_krk: warweasle: see? examples always help. :p
2016-01-19T01:04:30Z warweasle: phoe_krk: But I still don't understand what happened.
2016-01-19T01:04:45Z phoe_krk: warweasle: eval-when complained about an unknown keyword.
2016-01-19T01:04:53Z phoe_krk: it's like putting (eval-when (:asdfasdfasdf) ...)
2016-01-19T01:05:43Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-19T01:05:46Z Bike: Why did you try to write an eval-when there?
2016-01-19T01:05:47Z warweasle: Putting :compile-toplevel made it work.
2016-01-19T01:05:53Z phoe_krk: <3
2016-01-19T01:06:07Z Bike: putting compile-toplevel should make the function a no-op
2016-01-19T01:06:50Z pillton: Well the :execute causes it be evaluated at runtime. It does nothing at compile time though.
2016-01-19T01:07:18Z Bike: read too fast, oops.
2016-01-19T01:08:05Z warweasle: Here is what I get without an eval-when: http://paste.lisp.org/+6JM3/1
2016-01-19T01:08:25Z warweasle: And you are right. The function does nothing with the :compile-toplevel
2016-01-19T01:08:34Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:08:49Z Bike: well that's a problem with plus-c or whatever this is
2016-01-19T01:09:01Z Bike: but anyway, what did you want the eval-when to do?
2016-01-19T01:09:40Z warweasle: Bike: To make my function work. It works when I run it from the REPL.
2016-01-19T01:09:44Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:10:15Z Bike: Maybe I'm not being clear. What do you want this function to do that could not be accomplished by writing it the same way but without the eval-when.
2016-01-19T01:11:03Z warweasle: Bike: When I create a function without the eval-when, it compiles it fine. But when I run it I get the error in my annotation.
2016-01-19T01:11:42Z Bike: that's... (eval-when (:execute) anything) is the same as just anything, at non toplevel, like this is.
2016-01-19T01:11:48Z warweasle: Bike: But if I run the contents of the function from the repl, it works fine.
2016-01-19T01:12:27Z warweasle: Bike: That seems to work. Let me test it.
2016-01-19T01:12:34Z Bike: What seems to work
2016-01-19T01:13:17Z pillton: warweasle: Can you paste the macroexpansion of cepl:defstruct-g please.
2016-01-19T01:13:39Z warweasle: pillton: sure, one moment
2016-01-19T01:13:43Z pillton: warweasle: Do you have other code in the file which relies on the defstruct-g pos-colb being defined?
2016-01-19T01:14:12Z pillton: warweasle: I think this is an issue with the way you are working.
2016-01-19T01:14:32Z warweasle: pillton: I'm taking this from an example, and it's the first statement after some defparameters.
2016-01-19T01:14:40Z pillton: Where is the example?
2016-01-19T01:15:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T01:15:54Z warweasle: http://paste.lisp.org/+6JM3/2
2016-01-19T01:16:21Z warweasle: pillton: Also, I'm adding a character to the end of the name so I don't need to restart-inferior-lisp every attempt.
2016-01-19T01:16:58Z warweasle: https://github.com/cbaggers/cepl/blob/master/examples/texture-example.lisp#L8
2016-01-19T01:17:51Z pillton: There is no defstruct-g in that example.
2016-01-19T01:18:46Z warweasle: DOH!
2016-01-19T01:19:09Z pillton: warweasle: When pasting, it is common practice to show the form you are macroexpanding as well.
2016-01-19T01:19:26Z warweasle: https://github.com/cbaggers/cepl/blob/master/examples/triangle.lisp#L7
2016-01-19T01:20:01Z Bike: seems pretty normal, other than that i don't know what -g means. why would you put it in a function?
2016-01-19T01:20:26Z warweasle: Bike: I need to put it into an event handler.
2016-01-19T01:20:38Z Bike: You need to define a class of structures in an event handler?
2016-01-19T01:21:13Z warweasle: Bike: It's during initialization.
2016-01-19T01:21:54Z warweasle: Bike: And I can work around it for now. But why should it be any different?
2016-01-19T01:22:36Z pillton: warweasle: What you are trying to do is define a structure every time the handler is run.
2016-01-19T01:23:03Z Bike: it's just, a structure definition isn't usually something you do at runtime
2016-01-19T01:23:07Z warweasle: pillton: No, it only happens once.
2016-01-19T01:23:17Z pillton: warweasle: Your macro expansion says otherwise.
2016-01-19T01:23:40Z voidengineer quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T01:23:43Z warweasle: pillton: Currently I'm running by hand.
2016-01-19T01:23:54Z warweasle: pillton: Let me restart and see what it gives me.
2016-01-19T01:24:23Z pillton: warweasle: I'm pretty sure there is a difference between what you are showing us and what it is that you are doing.
2016-01-19T01:24:40Z pillton: warweasle: Time matters in common lisp.
2016-01-19T01:25:18Z pillton: warweasle: What I suggest you do is get it working without using the REPL.
2016-01-19T01:25:26Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T01:26:58Z warweasle: pillton: That's an idea. I restarted and this is the only thing I've done. http://paste.lisp.org/+6JM3/4
2016-01-19T01:27:42Z warweasle: pillton: But cepl is a live-coding graphics evironment.
2016-01-19T01:27:56Z pillton: warweasle: That is fine. The issue is your mental model.
2016-01-19T01:30:46Z jaykru quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T01:34:22Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:36:06Z warweasle: pillton: If I explictly eval it, it works fine.
2016-01-19T01:40:08Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-19T01:40:38Z pillton: warweasle: What? The defstruct-g form then the handler function?
2016-01-19T01:40:58Z warweasle: (eval '(defstruct-g ...   -> works.
2016-01-19T01:41:02Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T01:41:24Z Kundry_Wag: I was wondering whether it'd be possible for some lisp dialect to internally represent lists as arrays (whose size may vary) instead of linked list. If all elements of a list are pointers, them they have the same size, so it would be possible use an array and get any element in O(1)... or no? (probably this is naive, I know, I've just started to learn CL; I'm asking just out of curiosity.)
2016-01-19T01:41:24Z Kundry_Wag:  
2016-01-19T01:41:41Z White_Flame: Kundry_Wag: yes, it's called cdr-coding
2016-01-19T01:41:56Z White_Flame: though it's not used anymore now that memory is cheap, and it's faster not to deal with that overhead
2016-01-19T01:42:20Z White_Flame: but CL does have regular arrays & vectors as well
2016-01-19T01:42:46Z Petit_Dejeuner: Hm, there was a lisp book that wasn't published but had a few chapters released. It gave some good examples of how different sequences used up memory.
2016-01-19T01:42:53Z yeticry_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:43:22Z Petit_Dejeuner: I remember it having no trouble with a giant array of floats, but with an array of anything it choked. Does anyone know what book I'm thinking of?
2016-01-19T01:44:19Z phoe_krk: http://lisp-book.org/
2016-01-19T01:44:19Z Kundry_Wag: Thanks White_Flame, I'll search about cdr-coding.
2016-01-19T01:44:20Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T01:44:28Z phoe_krk: the unfinished one, I presume.
2016-01-19T01:44:32Z White_Flame: Kundry_Wag: also, the actual memory footprint inside a list is always the same word size.  A cons cell is 2 words.  Items that don't fit into a word are transparently boxed and a pointer to that is stored in the cons cell.
2016-01-19T01:45:18Z White_Flame: Kundry_Wag: but if you just want O(1) access, then just use an array.  CL arrays support automatic resizing, fill-pointers, etc
2016-01-19T01:45:47Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T01:45:51Z Petit_Dejeuner: phoe_krk: Thanks.
2016-01-19T01:46:49Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:46:54Z phoe_krk: Petit_Dejeuner: google helped me when I asked for "lisp unfinished book".
2016-01-19T01:46:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-19T01:46:56Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T01:46:56Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:47:01Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-19T01:47:38Z Petit_Dejeuner: phoe_krk: Ah sorry, I should have searched before asking.
2016-01-19T01:48:27Z phoe_krk: Petit_Dejeuner: no worry, sometimes you need to think of a proper keyword for Google to help you with finding what you seek.
2016-01-19T01:48:46Z phoe_krk: plus I knew what you were talking about and knew where to find it.
2016-01-19T01:48:59Z warweasle: phoe_krk: Are you google?
2016-01-19T01:49:58Z phoe_krk: warweasle: not really, I just happened to be in a right place at a right moment.
2016-01-19T01:50:03Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:50:36Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:50:56Z phoe_krk: could have been anyone else.
2016-01-19T01:51:01Z Kundry_Wag: White_Flame: Right. So could this (using array as internal representation) be used without changing anything on the semantics of list? I mean, all the list functions would be exactly the same. I'm asking this because I think many (most?) languages use arrays for the internal representation of what they call "lists", so I'm intrigued that Lisp uses linked lists instead (although it probably makes a lot of sense thinking about list
2016-01-19T01:51:02Z Kundry_Wag: machine and other historical things)
2016-01-19T01:51:02Z Kundry_Wag:  
2016-01-19T01:51:03Z Petit_Dejeuner: sounds like google to me
2016-01-19T01:51:11Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:51:16Z White_Flame: Kundry_Wag: yes, cdr coding was transparent
2016-01-19T01:51:31Z White_Flame: hence it having overhead, in exchange for using less memory for lists
2016-01-19T01:51:38Z warweasle: Wasn't there an article about implementing a lisp with only hash tables?
2016-01-19T01:51:51Z phoe_krk: only hash tables? how?
2016-01-19T01:51:53Z White_Flame: warweasle: JavaScript semantically does that
2016-01-19T01:52:20Z White_Flame: besides, {car:<val>, cdr:<val>} and there you go
2016-01-19T01:52:24Z warweasle: phoe_krk: I was looking for the article but I couldn't find it quickly and I'm trying to focus...
2016-01-19T01:52:49Z phoe_krk: ...umm.
2016-01-19T01:52:57Z Petit_Dejeuner: White_Flame: I'd like to think JavaScript is optimized for small tables.
2016-01-19T01:52:59Z phoe_krk: That's an unusual way to do it White_Flame.
2016-01-19T01:52:59Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T01:53:06Z phoe_krk: But, since it works...
2016-01-19T01:53:18Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:53:23Z White_Flame: this is certainly turing tarpit territory
2016-01-19T01:53:49Z phoe_krk: White_Flame: implement a turing machine implementing a turing machine.
2016-01-19T01:54:06Z warweasle: phoe_krk: Ha! I AM that.
2016-01-19T01:54:23Z phoe_krk: warweasle: omg
2016-01-19T01:55:08Z warweasle: phoe_krk: I'm not exceptionally stable or user friendly, but ...
2016-01-19T01:55:26Z phoe_krk: At least you've got infinite memory.
2016-01-19T01:55:35Z Petit_Dejeuner: any two languages that can implement the lambda calc are warweasle complete
2016-01-19T01:55:53Z phoe_krk: warweasle complete
2016-01-19T01:55:59Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T01:56:02Z phoe_krk: that's good.
2016-01-19T01:56:12Z Petit_Dejeuner: warweasle tarpit
2016-01-19T01:56:21Z warweasle: LOL! All it takes is two lines of ARC
2016-01-19T01:56:26Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:56:38Z Petit_Dejeuner: only one line of newLISP
2016-01-19T01:56:41Z Petit_Dejeuner: half a line of clojure
2016-01-19T01:56:46Z phoe_krk: and only one character of Brainfuck
2016-01-19T01:56:53Z Petit_Dejeuner: s/Brainfuck/APL
2016-01-19T01:56:59Z phoe_krk: oh yes
2016-01-19T01:57:13Z White_Flame: one character of APL that takes 17 bytes of UTF-8 to represent
2016-01-19T01:57:20Z phoe_krk: and we have to add that the one character is actually UTF-32 and it's some alien algebra symbol we're yet to discover.
2016-01-19T01:58:02Z Petit_Dejeuner has been playing with the idea of a 3D language where characters are formed by several sub symbols like korean
2016-01-19T01:58:21Z warweasle: Petit_Dejeuner: That would be cool.
2016-01-19T01:58:24Z Petit_Dejeuner: gotta make a book for it with a lovecraft vibe
2016-01-19T01:58:25Z phoe_krk: Petit_Dejeuner: there's already a 2d language somewhere, google around esolang
2016-01-19T01:58:42Z White_Flame: Befunge is already a 2d language, where the program counter moves in 1 of 4 directions across your source code
2016-01-19T01:58:43Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-19T01:58:49Z Petit_Dejeuner: I was talking about a non-programming language.
2016-01-19T01:58:56Z Petit_Dejeuner: I wasn't very clear.
2016-01-19T01:59:12Z phoe_krk: Oh.
2016-01-19T01:59:17Z phoe_krk: White_Flame: oh yes! Befunge.
2016-01-19T01:59:19Z Petit_Dejeuner: yeah, boring english major stuff
2016-01-19T01:59:32Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:00:11Z strcmp1 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-19T02:00:27Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:00:44Z warweasle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language#Piet
2016-01-19T02:02:46Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T02:06:29Z jaykru joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:07:08Z Kundry_W` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:10:16Z Kundry_W` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T02:10:16Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T02:10:56Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:11:35Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:15:00Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:15:12Z Fyodosto quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T02:16:28Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T02:17:24Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:18:37Z Fyodosto quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-19T02:19:00Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:26:06Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T02:26:40Z loke joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:31:16Z m_zr0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T02:31:40Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:34:56Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T02:37:15Z emma joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:37:46Z Fyodosto quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T02:38:41Z emma is now known as em
2016-01-19T02:40:48Z loke_: Good morning Lisp!
2016-01-19T02:42:13Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:42:25Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:44:27Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:45:26Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T02:52:15Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:52:47Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:57:50Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:59:05Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-19T02:59:09Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T03:01:20Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T03:01:36Z segmond joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:02:05Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:03:52Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:04:10Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:12:19Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:13:04Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T03:15:08Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:15:50Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-19T03:17:13Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:17:40Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T03:18:12Z Guest5337 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T03:22:05Z sjl__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T03:22:12Z warweasle quit (Quit: done!)
2016-01-19T03:27:55Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:29:42Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T03:30:54Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:31:04Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:35:35Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T03:47:12Z caffeinic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T03:55:19Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T03:56:05Z caffeinic joined #lisp
2016-01-19T03:56:23Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-19T04:00:01Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T04:01:21Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-19T04:02:20Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T04:03:12Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-19T04:03:44Z mbuf quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T04:09:05Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-19T04:13:07Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T04:18:59Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T04:40:16Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T04:52:49Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-19T04:52:56Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-19T04:53:34Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T04:54:58Z nyef: Hello beach.
2016-01-19T04:55:01Z strcmp1 quit (Quit: peace)
2016-01-19T04:56:13Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T04:58:06Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T04:59:30Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T05:00:35Z beach: nyef: Are you working on anything interesting these days?
2016-01-19T05:01:29Z nyef: Nothing particularly lispy right now, though that could change.
2016-01-19T05:02:02Z nyef: I had mostly convinced myself to start a MIPS CPU simulator in Lisp, but that got postponed for long enough that I'm now reevaluating using QEMU.
2016-01-19T05:02:08Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-19T05:02:59Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T05:04:28Z beach: So if it "could change", that would mean something other than a MIPS CPU simulator, right?
2016-01-19T05:04:49Z nyef: It could mean the MIPS CPU simulator.
2016-01-19T05:05:13Z beach: OK, got it.
2016-01-19T05:05:15Z nyef: And in about a week I should have access to the various hardware that I use for SBCL work.
2016-01-19T05:05:58Z bolichep quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-19T05:06:07Z nyef: And I've started thinking occasionally about NQ-CLIM, so that might see some action again.
2016-01-19T05:06:21Z nyef: In general, things are fairly up-in-the-air right now.
2016-01-19T05:08:46Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T05:12:05Z beach: About NQ-CLIM, what do you think about the idea of creating a Common Lisp protocol that would manage display servers in a way independent both of the type of display server and the interface manager?
2016-01-19T05:12:07Z beach: I started thinking of it when moore33 was discussing his new OpenGL-based rendering software, and I was thinking such a protocol could be used for CLIMatis and more traditional GUI libraries in Common Lisp.
2016-01-19T05:12:18Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T05:13:30Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T05:13:44Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-19T05:15:08Z rme quit (Quit: rme)
2016-01-19T05:15:08Z rme quit (Quit: rme)
2016-01-19T05:16:16Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-19T05:16:35Z psy_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T05:16:36Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T05:17:34Z beach: It would be something inspired by SDL I guess.  But I haven't investigated SDL sufficiently well.
2016-01-19T05:18:34Z nyef: Manage display servers how?
2016-01-19T05:19:08Z beach: It would propose a uniform (as much as possible) way of accessing them.
2016-01-19T05:19:15Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T05:20:15Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T05:20:48Z nyef: Hrm. So, something similar to the server paths used in CLIM?
2016-01-19T05:22:04Z beach: That is a minor aspect of it.  I am saying it should provide a protocol that looks like a Common Lisp-specific display server, and then it should implement that API using different real display servers.
2016-01-19T05:22:20Z beach: CLX, CLX with Render, OpenGL, Wayland.
2016-01-19T05:23:18Z nyef: So... the "silica" layer, basically?
2016-01-19T05:23:29Z beach: Yes, more like that.
2016-01-19T05:23:34Z beach: But not CLIM-specific.
2016-01-19T05:23:50Z nyef: In theory, silica shouldn't be CLIM-specific.
2016-01-19T05:24:07Z nyef: In practice, of course, it's too underspecified to be anything but.
2016-01-19T05:24:17Z beach: Heh.
2016-01-19T05:24:20Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T05:24:36Z beach: Also, more "modern", using compositing and stuff like that I guess.
2016-01-19T05:26:07Z nyef: With or without fallback options for non-compositing output devices?
2016-01-19T05:27:35Z beach: I guess "with", but that would be less and less necessary, so might not be in there initially.
2016-01-19T05:28:52Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-19T05:29:04Z beach: Also, in CLIMatis, I have a compositing backend that uses standard X11.  I just use a client-side frame buffer in the form of an X11 image.
2016-01-19T05:31:18Z nyef: A horrifying thought for you this morning: A video device that outputs 1920x1080, 16 colors, and a fixed palette.
2016-01-19T05:31:39Z nyef: Also. it's planar. Basically a souped-up EGA card.
2016-01-19T05:31:55Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-19T05:32:09Z nyef: Such a thing probably doesn't exist, but it'd be amusing if it did.
2016-01-19T05:32:31Z beach: You lost me.
2016-01-19T05:32:44Z beach: Maybe I am just not sufficiently awake yet.
2016-01-19T05:33:20Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T05:39:20Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T05:39:57Z beach takes a break.
2016-01-19T05:40:19Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-19T05:45:34Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-19T05:45:49Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T05:46:18Z loke_: beach: I'm also a bit confused.
2016-01-19T05:46:24Z ieure quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T05:48:33Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-19T05:48:42Z nyef: 16 colors is four bits per pixel. Planar means it's four bitmaps, one for each bit.
2016-01-19T05:49:38Z nyef: Basically, a spectacularly horrible video device in terms of memory model and color depth, but at a reasonably modern resolution.
2016-01-19T05:49:49Z ieure joined #lisp
2016-01-19T05:50:01Z nyef: (Okay, I can imagine worse in terms of memory model, but still...)
2016-01-19T05:51:58Z White_Flame: yeah, some of the retro machines didn't even have a linear framebuffer; have to jump around in memory to address a region
2016-01-19T05:52:20Z nyef: Apple ][ comes to mind there.
2016-01-19T05:52:26Z White_Flame: I think also the spectrum
2016-01-19T05:53:01Z nyef: Or the video memory is only accessible via some I/O port arrangement, not memory mapped at all.
2016-01-19T05:53:39Z nyef: (Most 8-bit and 16-bit game consoles, anything using a TMS9918, and so on.)
2016-01-19T05:56:28Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T05:58:36Z nyef: Okay, time for me to have a little nap. G'night all.
2016-01-19T05:59:45Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:05:24Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T06:07:50Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:13:40Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:15:59Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T06:17:53Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:19:15Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T06:19:48Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:21:38Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T06:21:47Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-19T06:22:58Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:23:31Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:24:07Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T06:24:55Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T06:26:41Z ngrud quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-19T06:33:32Z Nilby joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:34:18Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T06:38:56Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:39:51Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T06:42:01Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:43:20Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T06:43:38Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-19T06:46:50Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:47:55Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:48:29Z salva quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T06:53:12Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:53:47Z schaueho joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:56:24Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T06:57:42Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-19T06:59:55Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:03:12Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:05:46Z Intensity quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T07:07:08Z flip214: the C128's "better" video display (the one for 80 characters) only had two registers addressable, too
2016-01-19T07:07:58Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:10:23Z cat- quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:10:56Z Intensity joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:11:04Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T07:11:42Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:11:47Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:12:56Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T07:13:28Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:13:50Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:14:23Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:17:02Z Guest5337 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:18:20Z tcr_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:20:33Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:20:47Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:21:04Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:21:34Z iskander quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-19T07:22:26Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:23:06Z cross quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:23:50Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T07:24:18Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:24:27Z iskander left #lisp
2016-01-19T07:24:47Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:25:50Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:26:29Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:33:00Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:34:30Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:35:30Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:39:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:39:56Z salva joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:40:30Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:40:34Z Guest5337 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:43:17Z ivan\ quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-19T07:43:27Z ivan\_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:44:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:45:11Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:45:41Z ivan\_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T07:45:50Z mj12` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:47:22Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:48:14Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:49:50Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-19T07:50:35Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:51:35Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:52:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T07:55:54Z gyro quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-19T08:00:12Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:00:45Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:05:26Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:05:30Z cat- joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:05:43Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T08:08:23Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:10:49Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:11:42Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:11:50Z Kazlock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T08:12:32Z Heranort quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-19T08:13:18Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:14:21Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:15:59Z Guest5337 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:17:32Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:21:40Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:23:31Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:26:52Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:27:10Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:28:00Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:28:01Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:28:23Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:28:27Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:29:30Z Guest5337 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:34:20Z Quadrescence quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:35:17Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:35:18Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:37:57Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:40:54Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:43:02Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:44:39Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:44:44Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:45:07Z JitanRo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T08:48:01Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:49:32Z igam: nyef: you might consider embedding ecl in qemu.  Well done, this could give you the best of both, with the abilitity of monitoring, and debugging the execution of the VM programs thru lisp.   With the bonus that it would work for any processor implemented by qemu, not just for mips.
2016-01-19T08:49:42Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:50:12Z je4i quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T08:50:12Z je4i` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T08:50:28Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:50:28Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:51:52Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:52:37Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T08:54:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:55:05Z je4i` quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-19T08:56:32Z Oladon quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:56:47Z je4i quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-19T08:58:40Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T08:59:26Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:00:12Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:04:52Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:05:40Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:08:14Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:08:56Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:13:10Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:14:49Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:16:07Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:16:15Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:17:18Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-19T09:20:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:21:38Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-19T09:23:32Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:26:02Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:26:26Z sulky quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:26:34Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:27:13Z sulky joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:27:45Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:32:46Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:33:57Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:34:18Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:39:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:40:50Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:42:47Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:43:51Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-19T09:44:25Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:45:06Z Oladon joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:45:29Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:46:46Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:48:53Z srcerer quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:51:17Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:54:09Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T09:54:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T09:55:44Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T10:03:02Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:05:24Z joneshf-laptop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T10:06:20Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:06:28Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:09:23Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:13:11Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T10:13:46Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T10:16:16Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-19T10:16:46Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T10:19:17Z alvinfrancis joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:20:30Z przl quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-19T10:20:37Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:21:21Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:25:12Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T10:28:54Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:31:02Z adhoc_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:33:16Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:36:22Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:38:07Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:39:08Z freehck joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:46:23Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T10:46:35Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:49:10Z alex`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T10:49:37Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:51:13Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:51:16Z JitanRo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T10:54:03Z UtkarshRay quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T10:54:43Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T10:56:05Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T10:56:50Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T10:59:30Z JitanRo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T10:59:33Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T11:00:45Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:01:22Z strcmp1 quit (Quit: peace)
2016-01-19T11:01:24Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:02:22Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:04:20Z Nilby quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T11:04:45Z Guest5337 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:06:13Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:08:09Z dreamaddict joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:09:35Z dreamaddict: so, I just downloaded and installed SBCL 1.3.1 on my Ubuntu machine, using the AMD64 binary link
2016-01-19T11:09:44Z dreamaddict: installed it...and the version says 1.1.14.debian
2016-01-19T11:09:55Z dreamaddict: that can't be right...can it?
2016-01-19T11:12:41Z z0d: dreamaddict: you are using the Debian package from Ubuntu
2016-01-19T11:13:01Z z0d: apt-get remove sbcl
2016-01-19T11:13:12Z dreamaddict: there is no 1.3.1 version for that?
2016-01-19T11:13:20Z dreamaddict: the actual debian version on the table says 1.2.7
2016-01-19T11:13:21Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:13:43Z z0d: in Trusty the latest SBCL version is 1.1.14
2016-01-19T11:13:45Z pillton: Are there any classes/conditions in the common lisp hyperspec which have multiple super classes?
2016-01-19T11:14:34Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:14:44Z dreamaddict: actually...none of the AMD64 versions are less than 1.2.7
2016-01-19T11:14:47Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:14:47Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T11:14:47Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:15:00Z dreamaddict: hmm
2016-01-19T11:18:18Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:19:44Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:20:16Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:22:03Z splittist: pillton: you could look here http://sellout.github.io/2012/03/03/common-lisp-type-hierarchy/
2016-01-19T11:23:00Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:23:46Z splittist: pillton: this tells me that, for example, simple-error is an error and a simple-condition (which the hyperspec confirms)
2016-01-19T11:24:29Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-19T11:25:01Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:25:31Z pillton: splittist: Cheers. Thank you.
2016-01-19T11:26:19Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:27:29Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-19T11:31:00Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:34:59Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:35:52Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:36:00Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:36:31Z Bike joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:40:11Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T11:40:30Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:44:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:45:07Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:45:53Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:48:25Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:50:12Z Guest5337 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:52:06Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-19T11:52:26Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:53:12Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T11:57:27Z dreamaddict quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T11:57:48Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:00:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:00:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T12:00:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:02:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:03:56Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:05:40Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:07:52Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:10:24Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:13:14Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T12:13:30Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:13:40Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:13:48Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:13:58Z angus joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:16:38Z ThisIsJack joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:17:35Z alvinfrancis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:17:51Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-19T12:17:52Z tcr_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:18:16Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.)
2016-01-19T12:19:10Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:20:53Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:22:15Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:22:59Z joneshf-laptop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T12:25:50Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:26:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:30:31Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:31:55Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:33:38Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:34:37Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:34:47Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:36:07Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:36:24Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:37:28Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:37:30Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:38:01Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:39:04Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-19T12:39:58Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:41:00Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:42:46Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:43:02Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T12:44:01Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:45:12Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:46:18Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:47:57Z przl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T12:51:15Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T12:52:06Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:54:20Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:58:23Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T12:59:52Z fluter quit (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
2016-01-19T13:00:47Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T13:01:20Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:01:43Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:02:07Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:03:36Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:05:09Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:08:45Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:09:27Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:09:46Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:09:56Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-19T13:10:58Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:11:36Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T13:15:21Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:15:51Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:16:21Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T13:16:21Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:17:46Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T13:20:00Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T13:21:44Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T13:22:00Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T13:24:20Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-19T13:27:00Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T13:30:55Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:31:32Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:33:36Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:34:14Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:38:22Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:40:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T13:41:43Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:42:31Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:43:49Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:45:00Z Nikotiini quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T13:45:28Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:50:00Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T13:52:56Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:53:24Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T13:53:38Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-19T13:54:53Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T14:00:21Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:01:03Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2016-01-19T14:07:54Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:09:24Z zacharias_ is now known as zacharias
2016-01-19T14:12:14Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T14:12:48Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T14:16:48Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:18:28Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-19T14:18:46Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:25:17Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:27:08Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:27:28Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T14:27:36Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:32:00Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T14:33:42Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:33:43Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T14:35:14Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:36:10Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:38:19Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:40:39Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:45:40Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:46:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T14:47:04Z manuel__ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-19T14:48:25Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:51:01Z frewtc4ke joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:51:44Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:52:54Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T14:53:03Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:53:29Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:55:07Z rme joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:55:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T14:58:17Z manuel__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T14:59:44Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:59:57Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T14:59:57Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T14:59:57Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:00:15Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:01:31Z manuel__ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-19T15:02:24Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:03:08Z Rptx joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:04:18Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:06:49Z jfo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:06:55Z manuel__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:07:06Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:07:38Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:08:31Z Jesin quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T15:11:54Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:12:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:13:20Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:14:36Z galiley joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:16:32Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:16:49Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:17:50Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:18:40Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-19T15:19:01Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:21:25Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:29:39Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:29:39Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T15:29:39Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:31:02Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:31:30Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:33:24Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:35:34Z pbgc quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2016-01-19T15:36:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:40:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:41:02Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:41:37Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:41:46Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:41:50Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T15:42:32Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:43:04Z cmatei quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T15:43:45Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:43:48Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:44:37Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:44:39Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:45:22Z zch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T15:45:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:48:45Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:50:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:50:11Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T15:50:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:52:06Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T15:52:27Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:53:53Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:54:19Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:54:20Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-19T15:55:49Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T15:55:52Z yvm: Is it possible to get a list of slots of class instance without MOP?
2016-01-19T15:58:23Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:59:27Z yvm: Hmm. I think I can hold it in class itself.
2016-01-19T15:59:50Z Prion_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T15:59:52Z yvm: Though not very nice solution.
2016-01-19T16:00:01Z moore33: Just use the MOP.
2016-01-19T16:00:03Z flip214: yvm: just use MOP.
2016-01-19T16:00:10Z moore33: :)
2016-01-19T16:00:23Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:00:35Z yvm: Hah. Nice. Hive mind.
2016-01-19T16:00:55Z phoe_krk: We *are* the MOP.
2016-01-19T16:00:59Z phoe_krk: Resistance is futile.
2016-01-19T16:01:06Z phoe_krk: Your slots will be assimil-
2016-01-19T16:01:08Z phoe_krk coughs
2016-01-19T16:01:12Z phoe_krk: Why would you want to avoid MOP though?
2016-01-19T16:01:33Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:01:38Z p_l: phoe_krk: GCL? Genera? :D
2016-01-19T16:01:44Z yvm: Dunno. Irrational minimalism maybe.
2016-01-19T16:03:02Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:03:58Z jackdaniel: many people praise the specification, while MOP is not covered in it (what isn't an argument against using it obv)
2016-01-19T16:04:00Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:04:21Z jackdaniel: isn't a good argument°
2016-01-19T16:04:41Z phoe_krk: jackdaniel: The Specification is sacred, but it isn't an argument against not doing mundane things at all.
2016-01-19T16:04:42Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:05:36Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:07:13Z jackdaniel: phoe_krk: I'm not sure what do you mean by "is sacred", but it's praised for a very valid reason - applications written according to it (ie without the threads) will run on *any* conforming implementation, even these written by future archeologists 200 years from now
2016-01-19T16:07:33Z phoe_krk: jackdaniel: that's what I mean.
2016-01-19T16:08:05Z phoe_krk: but that fact alone isn't enough at all to reasonfully prevent people from trying to extend it in sane (and insane) ways.
2016-01-19T16:10:48Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:10:52Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:11:28Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:11:37Z jackdaniel: and nobody claims that ;)
2016-01-19T16:11:57Z phoe_krk: :3
2016-01-19T16:12:14Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:12:46Z manuel_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T16:13:17Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:15:22Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-19T16:15:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:17:06Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:19:03Z emlow quit (Quit: emlow)
2016-01-19T16:19:18Z Karl_Dscc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T16:20:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:20:58Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-19T16:21:50Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-19T16:22:19Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:22:22Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:24:23Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:25:23Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-19T16:27:09Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:27:54Z jlarocco joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:28:26Z Rptx` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:29:02Z jlarocco quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-19T16:29:31Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:30:03Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:30:11Z Rptx quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:30:14Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:30:53Z Nikotiini quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:31:40Z pbgc quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
2016-01-19T16:35:39Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-19T16:36:28Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:37:29Z Fyodosto quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T16:37:48Z schaueho quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T16:37:50Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:38:04Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:38:56Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:39:17Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:41:38Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-19T16:41:48Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:42:36Z bobbysmith007 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:43:45Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:44:35Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:44:39Z bobbysmith007: I have a string coming back from a database that is "(vector character 64)" that is not a simple-string. If I use make-array to try and debug this I get an object (SIMPLE-ARRAY CHARACTER (64)) which is of type simple-string.  I dont really understand what distinguishes a simple string from a non simple one in this case (no funky characters or anything), nor how to make something of type (vector character 64)
2016-01-19T16:46:39Z bobbysmith007: I can also see that (vector character 64) is a subtype of (simple-array character (64))
2016-01-19T16:47:29Z moore33: bobbysmith007: That last bit doesn't seem right.
2016-01-19T16:47:48Z bobbysmith007: (subtypep '(simple-array character (64)) '(vector character 64)) => t, t
2016-01-19T16:48:03Z moore33: "simple" refers to not being displaced and not having a fill pointer.
2016-01-19T16:48:10Z bobbysmith007: this is in modern SBCL if that helps, but I assume this is covered in the standard somewhere
2016-01-19T16:48:29Z moore33: That's not what you said :)
2016-01-19T16:48:39Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:48:46Z moore33: Yes, simple-array can be a subtype of vector.
2016-01-19T16:48:53Z moore33: But not the other way around.
2016-01-19T16:49:34Z bobbysmith007: moore33: apologies yes, thanks for clarifying - I also see that adding a fill pointer upgrades my simple-array to a vector which makes it not a simple-string any more
2016-01-19T16:49:59Z salva quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:50:42Z bobbysmith007: moore33: thanks, I think that gives me enough to figure out why this is interacting poorly in my code.
2016-01-19T16:51:44Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T16:51:53Z moore33: You can use array-has-fill-pointer-p and array-displacement to snoop around.
2016-01-19T16:54:11Z Munksgaard quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-19T16:56:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T16:58:43Z warweasle: Maybe this is a stupid question but, doesn't (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) Do nothing?
2016-01-19T16:59:56Z oleo: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (blah .....))
2016-01-19T17:00:38Z oleo: saiz do blah at compile-time, forcing compilation
2016-01-19T17:01:16Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T17:01:35Z oleo: cause default top-level mode is :compile afaik
2016-01-19T17:01:46Z oleo: there's also an interprete mode or so
2016-01-19T17:02:27Z warweasle: oleo: So :execute is a modifer to :compile-toplevel and :load-toplevel?
2016-01-19T17:02:31Z moore33: warweasle: Unless you specify :compile-toplevel, your definitions aren't available at compile time.
2016-01-19T17:02:40Z oleo: when you have that in your .sbclrc it will compile stuff at load-time
2016-01-19T17:02:49Z oleo: so be carefull
2016-01-19T17:03:24Z splittist: warweasle: see the bolded advice in the middle of this rant http://fare.livejournal.com/146698.html
2016-01-19T17:03:37Z moore33: No, :execute basically means both ":interpreted" and "evaluate even when not at top level."
2016-01-19T17:03:57Z milanj joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:04:49Z warweasle: splittist: blocked.
2016-01-19T17:05:05Z Nilby joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:05:06Z warweasle: moore33: Ok, I'm VERY confused now.
2016-01-19T17:05:15Z oleo: jep, read it
2016-01-19T17:05:21Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:05:31Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:05:33Z moore33: oleo: There's no "forcing compilation."
2016-01-19T17:06:02Z oleo: ok, then i have it wrong too, thank you for the clarification
2016-01-19T17:07:19Z moore33: It's true that (eval-when (:execute) ....) does disable compilation, and is probably pretty useless. But (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) ...) means that the code (probably) isn't compiled, just evaluated at file compilation time.
2016-01-19T17:09:42Z warweasle: I found a backpath to the article.
2016-01-19T17:12:39Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:13:32Z moore33: I think Faré's advice is correct.
2016-01-19T17:14:42Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:15:28Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:17:46Z Fyodosto quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T17:22:08Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:22:56Z fe[nl]ix: having just :compile-toplevel is useful for data structures used at compile-time to track state across macro expansions
2016-01-19T17:23:27Z fe[nl]ix: on implementations with good tree shakers it's not necessary
2016-01-19T17:23:45Z fe[nl]ix: i.e. on Lispworks :D
2016-01-19T17:28:03Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T17:32:24Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:34:49Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:35:45Z aerique quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2016-01-19T17:37:25Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:37:58Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:40:18Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T17:40:23Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T17:41:01Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:41:15Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:41:30Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-19T17:42:26Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:46:23Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-19T17:47:38Z gabriel_laddel: This is unrelated to Lisp, but I'm asking here because of the educated audience: what is the point of having 6 agettys being started on a linux?
2016-01-19T17:47:59Z gabriel_laddel: I understand I need one to run my X server etc, but why start 6?
2016-01-19T17:48:19Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T17:48:38Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T17:49:46Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T17:52:58Z gabriel_laddel: got an answer, nvm
2016-01-19T17:54:02Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:55:23Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:55:29Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-19T17:57:50Z Fade: the system is going to bind some virtual consoles when it boots.
2016-01-19T17:58:59Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:00:13Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:03:53Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:03:59Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T18:05:05Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:06:27Z igam quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:06:42Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:08:53Z bgs100 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:10:25Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:12:30Z learning joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:13:51Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:14:14Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:16:16Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:19:52Z learning: is anyone aware of any open source games in common lisp? a lot of the resources i've found result in 404s
2016-01-19T18:21:29Z learning: i found this just now: http://www.cliki.net/lispgamedevelopers
2016-01-19T18:22:02Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-19T18:25:36Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T18:26:09Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:26:33Z sweater is now known as Guest95158
2016-01-19T18:26:40Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:27:16Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:27:31Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:28:01Z learning: but even that is mostly toy examples, and the projects that seem substantial have all deprecated
2016-01-19T18:28:22Z mnoonan: I'm having a strange problem with cl-store (and maybe slime, too).. I'm reading in a json file and then trying to cl-store:store it to disk from the slime repl
2016-01-19T18:28:30Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:28:54Z mnoonan: it seems to be working, and I see ~600Mb written to disk, but then execution seems to stall with no obvious activity
2016-01-19T18:29:01Z mnoonan: (stalled for 15 minutes, currently)
2016-01-19T18:29:16Z mnoonan: slime-interrupt doesn't seem to break execution for some reason
2016-01-19T18:29:28Z mnoonan: any idea what could be going on, or how I can debug it?
2016-01-19T18:29:45Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:31:08Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:31:25Z mordocai: learning: There are definitely some bigger ones I just don't want to point to other people's work in case they don't feel it is ready for showing
2016-01-19T18:31:42Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:32:03Z tomaw quit (Quit: Quitting)
2016-01-19T18:32:16Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:32:16Z mordocai: learning: Dto has been doing streaming videos of working on https://github.com/dto/cypress so that's probably fair game
2016-01-19T18:32:41Z mordocai: You might want to watch his videos though, he doesn't have any docs yet
2016-01-19T18:32:44Z mordocai: getting link
2016-01-19T18:33:21Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:33:28Z mordocai: Here you go learning https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKfZ9JfFgg7cxa2hYfC5O0A
2016-01-19T18:33:49Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T18:34:22Z d4gg4d quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:34:48Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:34:49Z ggherdov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:34:50Z d4gg4d joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:35:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:35:42Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-19T18:36:22Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:38:13Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-19T18:39:31Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:40:06Z tomaw joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:41:31Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:41:57Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:42:56Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T18:43:28Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:43:59Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:45:02Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:46:02Z josteink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T18:46:54Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:46:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T18:46:57Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:47:13Z ggherdov_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:48:05Z josteink joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:48:17Z tcr_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:48:26Z jdz quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2016-01-19T18:48:53Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:50:04Z gabriel_laddel quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-19T18:51:35Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-19T18:55:20Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-19T18:57:34Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T18:57:47Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T18:59:31Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T19:03:30Z srcerer joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:04:12Z srcerer quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-19T19:05:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T19:05:29Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:05:44Z srcerer joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:09:50Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:11:48Z Guest95158 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T19:12:02Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:14:55Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:15:05Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:15:29Z Xach_: luis: any thoughts re: perfpiece?
2016-01-19T19:16:50Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-19T19:17:56Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:18:45Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T19:19:42Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T19:21:04Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:21:17Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:21:45Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:24:03Z ssake_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T19:24:52Z whartung quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T19:25:13Z whartung joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:26:42Z Yanez quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T19:26:59Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:27:56Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T19:28:51Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:29:14Z sweater is now known as Guest53929
2016-01-19T19:29:15Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:31:57Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:32:37Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:37:37Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T19:39:44Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T19:42:26Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T19:44:19Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:47:11Z fiveop joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:47:48Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:47:48Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T19:47:48Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:49:46Z cat- is now known as dfcat
2016-01-19T19:54:44Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:55:23Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-19T19:56:29Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-19T19:56:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T19:57:59Z Patzy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T20:00:01Z circuitCarre joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:00:43Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:00:59Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-19T20:01:03Z Patzy joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:01:39Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-19T20:03:29Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:03:30Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T20:03:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:04:54Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:05:12Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T20:06:24Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-19T20:07:08Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:07:21Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:08:46Z fiveop quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-19T20:09:03Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:09:10Z fiveop joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:09:26Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:15:09Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:15:47Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:15:47Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-19T20:16:11Z attila_lendvai1 is now known as Guest13071
2016-01-19T20:17:02Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:18:23Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T20:18:43Z lisp732 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:19:46Z Guest13071 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T20:23:03Z lisp12314234 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:25:19Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:26:06Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T20:26:44Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-19T20:29:16Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-19T20:30:00Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T20:30:57Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:31:22Z fiveop quit
2016-01-19T20:31:48Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-19T20:33:12Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:33:12Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T20:33:12Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:36:27Z tcr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T20:39:34Z new2this joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:40:02Z pjb: learning: http://cliki.net/game
2016-01-19T20:40:36Z pjb: learning: also, ask on #lispgames
2016-01-19T20:45:10Z Yanez quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T20:45:18Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:49:16Z ssake quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-19T20:49:35Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:50:23Z phoe_krk: ^
2016-01-19T20:55:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T20:55:50Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:56:10Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T20:58:13Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-19T20:58:26Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T20:59:02Z jocuman quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:00:59Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:01:07Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:01:55Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:03:29Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:05:18Z milanj_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:05:39Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:05:40Z segmond joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:07:35Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:08:00Z milanj quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:08:26Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:09:47Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:11:42Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T21:12:28Z xificurC joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:12:46Z Nikotiin` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:13:11Z Nikotiini quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:13:29Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:13:48Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-19T21:13:58Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-19T21:15:05Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-19T21:15:22Z angus left #lisp
2016-01-19T21:15:25Z martinhath quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:17:16Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T21:18:21Z __main__ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:19:19Z freehck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T21:19:41Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T21:20:30Z __main__ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:22:11Z askatasuna quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-19T21:23:50Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:26:12Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-19T21:26:25Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:27:28Z warweasle quit (Quit: gone)
2016-01-19T21:29:40Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T21:33:13Z jasom: Xach_: I don't know what the question is, but I've used perfpiece before to good effect
2016-01-19T21:33:52Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:35:29Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2016-01-19T21:36:39Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:38:14Z Posterdati quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-19T21:38:49Z fourier: should one prefer sly to slime ? what is the status of sly.
2016-01-19T21:39:39Z mordocai: fourier: I use sly exclusively and love it, but I haven't used SLIME much before. I started my serious common lisp development with sly (previously had only played around with lisp)
2016-01-19T21:40:04Z mordocai: So I can say sly lets me develop perfectly fine, but can't really compare it much to SLIME
2016-01-19T21:40:06Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T21:40:35Z Xach_: jasom: it crashes sbcl 1.3.1 on debian 8 for me.
2016-01-19T21:40:51Z Xach_: jasom: just building it
2016-01-19T21:42:23Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:44:35Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:46:02Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-19T21:46:05Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:46:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T21:46:05Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:50:07Z learning quit
2016-01-19T21:52:26Z ramus quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:52:38Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:52:39Z Fyodosto quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T21:54:05Z new2this: do you guys know of any neat lisp opensource stuff going on that a lisp developer could potentially jump on to help out?
2016-01-19T21:55:26Z circuitCarre quit (Quit: circuitCarre)
2016-01-19T21:55:48Z pjb: new2this: anything in quicklisp that you feel would need improvements.
2016-01-19T21:56:28Z pjb: new2this: there may also be some old lisp libraries not included into quicklisp yet; you would probably have to write an asd file for it, and update it so it would compile nicely at least on sbcl to be integrated into quicklisp.
2016-01-19T21:57:18Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:57:39Z pjb: new2this: also see: http://metamodular.com/Common-Lisp/suggested-projects.html
2016-01-19T21:57:50Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-19T21:58:20Z pjb: new2this: you may brows http://cliki.net; not all the libraries mentionned there are on quicklisp yet, so a lot of them would need some love.
2016-01-19T21:58:47Z pjb: new2this: also, if you have time and know C, you may consider being maintainer for clisp for some time.
2016-01-19T21:58:57Z new2this: !!!!
2016-01-19T21:58:58Z learning joined #lisp
2016-01-19T21:59:12Z new2this: all of this sounds cool, but im actually in the process of learning c
2016-01-19T21:59:55Z new2this: how could i get involved with clisp maintenance? (if its easy and just one the home page somewhere you can tell me to go look)
2016-01-19T22:00:00Z pjb: Well, maintaining a non-trivial C program would be a good exercise to learn C :-)
2016-01-19T22:00:02Z learning: what is the significance of the double colon in:       (lib:function 1)   vs  (lib::function 1)
2016-01-19T22:01:26Z mordocai: learning: exported vs not exported symbol. :: lets you access a symbol that is not exported from lib
2016-01-19T22:01:32Z pjb: new2this: http://clisp.cons.org basically, you would have to subscribe to the developper mailling list, and start working on it.  There are a number of patches already waiting to be integrated, including asdf3 into a new release.  Once you have a local (mercurial) repo updated and ready, you would be given write access to the sf.net repo.
2016-01-19T22:01:59Z pjb: learning: :: means that we don't care whether the symbol is exported or not from that package.
2016-01-19T22:02:05Z vhost- quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T22:02:14Z pjb: learning: : means that if the symbol is not exported, then we want an error.
2016-01-19T22:02:15Z learning: so :: will go and export it if it's not already exported?
2016-01-19T22:02:27Z learning: or will just ignore the error?
2016-01-19T22:02:38Z pjb: no, no export; Just access to the exported or non-exported symbol.
2016-01-19T22:02:45Z new2this: it just circumvents the entire exported or not system
2016-01-19T22:02:47Z pjb: no error to ignore either. Just access it.
2016-01-19T22:03:07Z Xach_: new2this: my impression is that clisp is hard to maintain
2016-01-19T22:03:15Z Xach_: it is not written in C directly.
2016-01-19T22:03:26Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T22:03:34Z pjb: All non-homeless symbols are always accessible by qualifying them with a package where they are accessible and using ::.
2016-01-19T22:03:34Z learning: would this info likely be in the asdf manual?
2016-01-19T22:03:34Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-19T22:03:40Z new2this: i see, that already sounds more difficult
2016-01-19T22:03:43Z fourier: learning: normally you have to export functions/variables from the package so they could be used in another package. this "::" thing helps you to avoid this limitation and use functions/variables from another package anyway (on your risk of course)
2016-01-19T22:04:12Z lateral quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-19T22:04:23Z pjb: all non trivial C programs are written using heavily cpp or some other pre-processor.  emacs is another example.
2016-01-19T22:04:24Z learning: the at your own risk part is because you could be accessing variables that are not part of the intended interface?
2016-01-19T22:04:33Z pjb: learning: yes.
2016-01-19T22:04:41Z learning: ok. thank you guys
2016-01-19T22:04:45Z pjb: and that could change with new versions.
2016-01-19T22:05:22Z ThisIsJack quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-19T22:05:28Z pjb: exported symbols could changes with new version too, but you wouldn't get to grumble if you used non-exported symbols :-)
2016-01-19T22:05:51Z lisp12314234 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-19T22:05:59Z learning: don't tell me what to grumble and not grumble about
2016-01-19T22:06:03Z learning: you're not the boss of me pjb
2016-01-19T22:06:17Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-19T22:07:13Z pjb: It's time; good night!
2016-01-19T22:07:37Z learning: oh you're in a totally different timezone than me. goodnight, and thank you
2016-01-19T22:07:52Z mordocai: learning: A lot of people here likely are :)
2016-01-19T22:08:19Z learning: damn europeans and their superior knowledge of lisp
2016-01-19T22:08:39Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-19T22:09:40Z lisp732 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-19T22:09:56Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-19T22:14:11Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-19T22:16:05Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-19T22:17:05Z Guest53929 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T22:21:52Z Kundry_Wag left #lisp
2016-01-19T22:25:36Z jasom: any ideas how to go about debugging an "alien stack exhausted" error?
2016-01-19T22:26:12Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-19T22:26:35Z mordocai: Contact the aliens? (Real answer: gdb?)
2016-01-19T22:26:48Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-19T22:27:07Z pillton: jasom: Mulder and Scully mumble something about recursion.
2016-01-19T22:27:35Z pillton: Or allocating arrays on the stack rather than the heap?
2016-01-19T22:29:18Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-19T22:32:45Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-19T22:33:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T22:33:41Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T22:35:21Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-19T22:37:15Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T22:38:19Z resttime` joined #lisp
2016-01-19T22:38:22Z resttime` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T22:41:44Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T22:46:11Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T22:54:23Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-19T22:55:09Z angavrilov_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T22:55:56Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T23:00:03Z Xach_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T23:00:13Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:00:18Z Xach quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T23:00:18Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:03:00Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:06:50Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T23:08:48Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:12:00Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:12:14Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:12:25Z Fyodosto joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:13:26Z msb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:13:29Z Firedancer quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:15:19Z Fyodosto quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-19T23:15:26Z FotDP joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:16:19Z msb joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:18:28Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:19:41Z Firedancer joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:22:49Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:24:27Z xificurC quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-19T23:26:11Z Nikotiin` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:26:50Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-19T23:27:11Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:31:07Z AJavaIdiot quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-19T23:31:46Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:33:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:36:23Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:40:34Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-19T23:42:46Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-19T23:44:35Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:45:18Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:46:16Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:47:55Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:52:19Z edgar-rft quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-19T23:53:54Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:55:33Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-19T23:56:14Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T23:56:15Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:56:15Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2016-01-19T23:56:15Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-19T23:58:04Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:01:04Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T00:01:09Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T00:04:18Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:06:11Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T00:06:23Z voidengineer joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:07:25Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:11:42Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:11:47Z vhost- joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:11:47Z vhost- quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T00:11:48Z vhost- joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:12:39Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T00:13:52Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:14:55Z edgar-rft quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T00:17:08Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:17:08Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:18:15Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T00:20:09Z jaykru quit (Quit: leaving desu)
2016-01-20T00:22:40Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T00:23:16Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T00:23:46Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T00:23:47Z lisper29 quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-20T00:24:32Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:24:58Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-20T00:28:26Z voidengineer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T00:28:40Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-20T00:29:05Z voidengineer joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:29:43Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-20T00:32:40Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:32:42Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:38:40Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:38:52Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:40:55Z pillton: jasom: What was it?
2016-01-20T00:41:13Z donidutch joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:41:15Z jasom: pillton: not sure, it happened on a thread in a long running server
2016-01-20T00:41:20Z donidutch: HI!
2016-01-20T00:42:34Z phoe_krk: donidutch: OMG HI
2016-01-20T00:42:37Z donidutch left #lisp
2016-01-20T00:42:37Z phoe_krk: what's up?
2016-01-20T00:42:44Z phoe_krk: ...that was quick.
2016-01-20T00:43:19Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:43:26Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T00:43:33Z Administrator is now known as Guest35793
2016-01-20T00:47:05Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:49:12Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T00:55:17Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-20T00:55:23Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T00:57:45Z warweasle is now known as warweasle_afk
2016-01-20T00:58:01Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:02:38Z jlarocco_ left #lisp
2016-01-20T01:05:36Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T01:06:24Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:06:47Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:07:20Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:12:59Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:14:40Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:15:25Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:17:15Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T01:18:29Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T01:19:35Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T01:26:25Z Habens joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:26:33Z papachan quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2016-01-20T01:29:44Z learning quit
2016-01-20T01:34:24Z warweasle_afk is now known as warweasle
2016-01-20T01:34:44Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-20T01:35:09Z phoe_krk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:35:36Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T01:35:36Z phoe_krk_ is now known as phoe_krk
2016-01-20T01:35:55Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T01:40:50Z pillton: Xach: Is it possible to have https://planet.lisp.org redirect to http://planet.lisp.org instead of https://quicklisp.org?
2016-01-20T01:41:33Z XachX: I will look into it.
2016-01-20T01:41:40Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:41:54Z pillton: XachX: cheers.
2016-01-20T01:41:59Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2016-01-20T01:43:45Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T01:44:31Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-20T01:56:21Z phoe_krk: I have to admit something
2016-01-20T01:56:36Z phoe_krk: I like to temporarily bind my favorite REPL function to the keyword |3|
2016-01-20T01:56:43Z phoe_krk: this way I can call (:3)
2016-01-20T01:56:50Z phoe_krk: and my lisp suddenly becomes much more kawaii. :3~
2016-01-20T01:58:40Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:01:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T02:01:25Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-20T02:04:54Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T02:05:06Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T02:05:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T02:06:26Z Habens quit
2016-01-20T02:08:07Z replcated_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:09:19Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-20T02:15:31Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:20:17Z voidengineer quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T02:20:26Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T02:22:45Z FotDP quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T02:28:38Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T02:30:35Z m_zr0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T02:31:01Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:31:58Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:34:43Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T02:37:30Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:41:03Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:41:14Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:41:16Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:44:31Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T02:45:15Z FotDP joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:49:08Z harish quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T02:49:30Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:52:31Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-20T02:58:46Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:00:40Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T03:00:42Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T03:03:36Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T03:07:15Z FotDP quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T03:07:59Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T03:08:22Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:14:09Z sweater- joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:16:14Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:16:28Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:17:13Z loke_: Hello Lisp
2016-01-20T03:17:39Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-20T03:17:41Z pillton: G'day loke.
2016-01-20T03:17:47Z sweater- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T03:18:15Z loke_: Hello pillton
2016-01-20T03:21:17Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T03:23:09Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:26:28Z FotDP joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:28:44Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T03:44:13Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T03:44:41Z wz1000 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-20T03:45:01Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:46:14Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T03:46:32Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:46:51Z funnel quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T03:47:18Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:48:15Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:50:28Z minion quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-20T03:50:30Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:52:44Z luis quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T03:53:59Z luis joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:56:06Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-20T03:57:09Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T03:58:37Z funnel joined #lisp
2016-01-20T04:00:09Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T04:03:03Z Guest35793 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T04:03:12Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T04:04:42Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T04:05:00Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T04:06:53Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-20T04:06:58Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T04:07:01Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-20T04:08:59Z m0li: hi, beach good morning!
2016-01-20T04:11:21Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-20T04:11:36Z drmeister: Hi everyone
2016-01-20T04:11:45Z beach: Hello drmeister.
2016-01-20T04:11:54Z beach: I'll get around to your problems soon.
2016-01-20T04:12:02Z beach: I have been busy with talks and papers.
2016-01-20T04:12:42Z drmeister: Hey beach.  No problem.  I'm not sure which problems you are referring to.
2016-01-20T04:12:59Z drmeister: Changes in sicl?
2016-01-20T04:13:01Z beach: What you emailed me a few days ago.
2016-01-20T04:13:02Z beach: Yes.
2016-01-20T04:13:27Z drmeister: Oh, those changes - yes.
2016-01-20T04:14:32Z beach: The deadline of ELS is less than a month away, and my nephew is planning more talks for me at the company where he works.
2016-01-20T04:14:50Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-20T04:15:03Z drmeister: I've been thinking about debugging again.  Did you make those changes to Cleavir that effect debug info?
2016-01-20T04:15:19Z beach: Not fully, no. :(
2016-01-20T04:15:22Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T04:15:39Z beach: It turns out there are some tools that need to be duplicated.
2016-01-20T04:15:57Z beach: For managing declarations, in particular.
2016-01-20T04:16:43Z beach: I guess I was trying to figure out a way of avoiding the duplication, and got stuck.
2016-01-20T04:17:02Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-20T04:18:18Z drmeister: Ok.
2016-01-20T04:20:40Z beach: drmeister: Don't worry, I'll get back to it.  I am just a little overworked right now.
2016-01-20T04:20:57Z drmeister: I understand
2016-01-20T04:22:10Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T04:22:11Z bolichep quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-20T04:22:19Z the_signalman left #lisp
2016-01-20T04:22:24Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-20T04:25:09Z Kundry_Wag: http://pastebin.com/raw/tjzXQXVK Is any of these two styles generally preferred?
2016-01-20T04:25:40Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T04:26:12Z beach: Kundry_Wag: No general rule.
2016-01-20T04:26:25Z beach: Kundry_Wag: It all depends on how easy it is to figure out what it means.
2016-01-20T04:26:51Z Kundry_Wag: beach: Right, thanks
2016-01-20T04:27:00Z beach: Kundry_Wag: There are other options too...
2016-01-20T04:27:21Z beach: ... Use LET* to introduce new variables that are meaningful to the reader.
2016-01-20T04:27:42Z beach: The reader being the person who is going to read and understand the code, not the Common Lisp READ function.
2016-01-20T04:29:05Z beach: (let* ((foo (+ 6 4/5)) (bar (- 3 bla)) (baz (- 2 bar)) ...) with each binding on a new line.
2016-01-20T04:29:08Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T04:29:32Z Kundry_Wag: beach: Yeap, sure. This is the second SICP exercise (it just asks you to transform the given math expression to code)
2016-01-20T04:29:34Z beach: There doesn't have to be a new binding for each operation, of course.
2016-01-20T04:31:21Z beach: Kundry_Wag: Just a warning.  SICP is based on Scheme and this channel is dedicated to Common Lisp.  So when you get into exercises that differ between Scheme and Common Lisp, #lisp won't be of much help.
2016-01-20T04:32:31Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-20T04:33:28Z Kundry_Wag: beach: Ah, yeap. I asked it here because it's a generic question. But I'll jump there if the question is more specific :)
2016-01-20T04:34:27Z Kundry_Wag: (and I'm reading Practical Common Lisp too currently)
2016-01-20T04:35:39Z Kundry_Wag: And tweaking Emacs with a bit of elisp. A lisp overdose, really.
2016-01-20T04:35:51Z beach: Sounds like it.
2016-01-20T04:37:31Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T04:47:01Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-20T04:47:07Z clintm quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T04:47:07Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-20T04:47:07Z clintm quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T04:47:07Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-20T04:56:54Z loke_: Is the marginal (2× at best) performance improvement of C++ compared to more reasonable languages worth it? Seriously, why is an article like this even needed? https://turingtester.wordpress.com/2016/01/18/writing-good-c-by-default-in-the-stl/
2016-01-20T04:59:18Z Zhivago: More reasonable along which dimensions?
2016-01-20T04:59:46Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-20T05:00:36Z loke_: Zhivago: The dimension of human sanity. By this definition, an unreasonable language forces you to think about all these details when programming.
2016-01-20T05:02:30Z Zhivago: Which details are you particularly concerned about? Lifetime?
2016-01-20T05:02:37Z loke_: I'll be the first to admit that there is a bizarre kind of elegance in creating C++ templates that "do the right thing, always". But spending time on reaching that "right thing" level leads to an unhealthy addiction not too different from that of crack cocaine.
2016-01-20T05:03:00Z loke_: Zhivago: Safety.
2016-01-20T05:03:34Z Zhivago: Safety is too broad to be meaningful, really.
2016-01-20T05:03:45Z Zhivago: You need to think about a lot of stuff to write safe code in pretty much anything.
2016-01-20T05:03:46Z loke_: Zhivago: OK, how about this definition then...
2016-01-20T05:03:57Z Zhivago: Do you mean 'undefined behavior'?
2016-01-20T05:04:31Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-20T05:05:55Z loke_: My issue with C++ is that they jump through a ridiculous number of hoops in order to make what is inherently an unsafe paradigm (think of C) into something that pretends to be more akin to a "managed language" (i.e. be able to simply return a string from a function and have ti do the "right thing" most of the time). But I argue that the abstraction is very flimsy and when it fails, debugging the resulting mess is hell.
2016-01-20T05:06:52Z loke_: I'm just saying that it isn't worth and and you should either accept the performace drop, which isn't that great in practice. Or accept the complexities of working at a low level (i.e. work at a level similar to C).
2016-01-20T05:11:02Z Zhivago: Well, in C++ you'd just return a string.
2016-01-20T05:11:23Z Zhivago: But, certainly, you pay for that.
2016-01-20T05:13:31Z loke_: Zhivago: Even for something as fundamental as std::string, one can get surprises when dealing with references. But the article was about the potential of ending up with dangling pointers when using references to std::unique_ptr. One could argue that it's a bad design in STL, but my point is that that takes away from the bigger issue: That of C++ being unsuitable for most (if not all) real projects.
2016-01-20T05:13:51Z Zhivago: Sure, but you're not just returning a string, then.
2016-01-20T05:14:16Z Zhivago: Ok -- that's going to be harder to measure.
2016-01-20T05:14:39Z jsgrant: Kundry_Wag: A bit late but; Yes, yes, let the Lisp flow through you. Oneday you'll wake up using it on the WM level as well and not really remember exactly when it happened. :^U
2016-01-20T05:14:40Z Zhivago: What you need is some kind of cost metric for real projects.
2016-01-20T05:15:39Z Zhivago: Without that you end up with the exact same argument, replacing C++ with CL, because cost models are mostly built from refined bullshit.
2016-01-20T05:15:50Z loke_: Zhivago: My perspective is that of someone who has spent the last 10 years doing lots of debugging of a tens-of-millions of lines codebase, mostly in C but which has seen a signficant number of lines of C++ added in the last few years.
2016-01-20T05:17:40Z loke_: Debugging the C code is orders of magnitude easier than the C++ code. I know the argument is that there are fewer bugs in total in the C++ part. I have also spent a lot of the last few years doing CL development, and I've found and fixed a lot of bugs in third-party libraries. Fixing those bugs have been a joy compared to the mess which is fixing bugs int he C and C++ code bases.
2016-01-20T05:17:44Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-20T05:18:36Z loke_: So I'm not discussing the number of bugs in the respective languages. I'm talking about the amount of work needed to fix a difficult bug once they are revealed.
2016-01-20T05:18:59Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T05:19:00Z loke_: Lisp is by far the easiest, C is hard and C++ is even harder.
2016-01-20T05:20:34Z Zhivago: Probably what you're talking about is your personal experience and prejudices.
2016-01-20T05:20:44Z Zhivago: Which are valid, but not generalizable.
2016-01-20T05:21:24Z Zhivago: (And why these kinds of discussions tend to go nowhere)
2016-01-20T05:22:43Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T05:29:15Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T05:32:26Z jsgrant wonders how much this planned year of CL study will bias me against C++ & Java, which are in next year's coursework it looks like.
2016-01-20T05:33:15Z jsgrant is going to end up being one of those "smug lisp wienies". 
2016-01-20T05:33:17Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-20T05:33:25Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-20T05:33:29Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T05:40:02Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T05:40:59Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T05:46:35Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T05:48:42Z Wojciech_K quit (Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше))
2016-01-20T05:50:52Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-20T05:51:48Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-20T05:58:11Z zerac quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T05:58:36Z zerac joined #lisp
2016-01-20T05:58:50Z nopf quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T05:59:29Z housel quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T05:59:39Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-20T05:59:50Z housel joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:00:15Z nopf joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:01:31Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:03:44Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T06:09:30Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T06:10:03Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:10:43Z milanj_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-20T06:11:51Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T06:17:44Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-20T06:17:57Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:20:36Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T06:22:05Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:22:48Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:23:08Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T06:23:35Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:26:21Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:27:45Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-20T06:30:26Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T06:31:25Z __main__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:32:36Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T06:33:27Z __main__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:41:37Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:43:02Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T06:44:20Z bobbysmith007 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T06:45:02Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:45:22Z bobbysmith007 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:46:26Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:47:00Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T06:47:23Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-20T06:50:04Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T06:51:12Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:52:48Z jsgrant quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T06:53:31Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:56:26Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T06:58:09Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:58:14Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T06:59:42Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:00:29Z harish quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T07:02:35Z rme quit (Quit: rme)
2016-01-20T07:04:48Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T07:05:00Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:06:15Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T07:09:44Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:10:45Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T07:11:39Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T07:12:31Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:15:26Z salva joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:16:26Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:17:08Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:17:43Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:17:49Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:17:59Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T07:18:00Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T07:18:31Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:20:11Z vaporatorius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T07:20:47Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:21:11Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:23:13Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:25:35Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T07:27:27Z Nilby quit (Quit: イカ墨の雲)
2016-01-20T07:28:46Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T07:30:10Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:31:44Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:35:53Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:38:08Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:39:55Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T07:40:46Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:42:43Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T07:42:45Z tcr_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T07:44:46Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:49:27Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-20T07:51:20Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T07:55:08Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:00:00Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:00:52Z zch quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-20T08:01:04Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:06:46Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T08:07:46Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T08:08:48Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:15:13Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T08:16:13Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:17:41Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T08:20:25Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T08:23:43Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:24:02Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T08:24:23Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:29:39Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:29:54Z aerique joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:31:06Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:31:37Z clintm quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-20T08:32:06Z igam joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:33:36Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:34:04Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:36:18Z przl quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-20T08:37:07Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:42:24Z Oddity: feels good, man
2016-01-20T08:44:58Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:47:32Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:47:48Z iskander quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T08:50:08Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:50:25Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T08:55:35Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-20T08:59:41Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:00:14Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:00:39Z Vulcan00 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T09:02:30Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:05:51Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:06:40Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:09:09Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T09:11:18Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:15:47Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T09:16:50Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-20T09:17:32Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:20:35Z synchromesh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T09:20:52Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:21:01Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:26:57Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:31:24Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T09:31:48Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:34:46Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T09:35:12Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T09:35:13Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:37:33Z ramky_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:38:32Z vap1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T09:39:33Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-20T09:39:46Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-20T09:41:06Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T09:42:10Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:46:30Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:47:01Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:49:16Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:50:33Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T09:51:27Z loke_: Hello
2016-01-20T09:51:55Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T09:52:11Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T09:52:11Z splittist: Hello loke_ . What's new and exciting?
2016-01-20T09:52:24Z loke_: splittist: Wiriting an Android client for Potato:-)
2016-01-20T09:54:15Z gniourf quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T09:54:20Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-20T09:55:42Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-20T09:58:46Z ralt: loke_ I'm so sorry. How is java doing these days?
2016-01-20T09:59:00Z loke_: ralt: What do you mean "doing"?
2016-01-20T09:59:11Z ralt: is it still as bad?
2016-01-20T09:59:15Z loke_: It is what it's always been. And with Android you're stuck with Java 7.
2016-01-20T09:59:40Z loke_: ralt: Java isn't bad. At least it's better than a lot of stuff out there (like Python)
2016-01-20T09:59:44Z ralt: yeah, didn't know which java version android was at, maybe it'd been upgraded since last time I looked
2016-01-20T10:01:35Z loke_: It hasn't and it's annoying
2016-01-20T10:02:05Z loke_: But the _most_ annoying thing about it is that they are suffering from the same sickness that the clojure and nodejs communities hare suffering from.
2016-01-20T10:02:13Z loke_: Overly "intelligent" build tools.
2016-01-20T10:02:30Z loke_: So they moved away from Maven, which is a mess. But they moved to Grails, which is even worse.
2016-01-20T10:03:12Z loke_: I mean gradle
2016-01-20T10:03:15Z ralt: didn't they use gradle?
2016-01-20T10:03:16Z ralt: ah, yeah
2016-01-20T10:03:44Z gingerale quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2016-01-20T10:03:53Z ralt: I guess the lisp community is blessed on this side. ASDF is doing just enough.
2016-01-20T10:03:56Z splittist: loke_: cool!
2016-01-20T10:04:30Z loke_: Yeah, and when QL downloads something, it puts it in a single palce. Source navigation works and when something fails it's easy to figure out what's going on.
2016-01-20T10:05:16Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:05:26Z loke_: As for my project, I haven't even got a clue where the JAR's are located (and neither does the development tool, it seems, since I can't navigate to them). And if something fails there is no way of knowing exactly what failed because Gradle sure as hell isn't telling you.
2016-01-20T10:05:50Z ralt: loke_ QL removes some difficulty by being a "distribution", aka no version mismatch between *all* the systems
2016-01-20T10:06:51Z loke_: I had the wirdest problemn where gradle told me to upgrade some random library to 0.8.3 when I was already using 0.8.4. Downgrading to .3 caused random _other_ parts of the build to fail.
2016-01-20T10:07:43Z loke_: After googling I found a stackoverlfow question that was similar, and the answer said to move an "apply plugin" line in the build.grade file to the bottom of the file. Why? No one knows, but everybody are happy it fixed this problem.
2016-01-20T10:07:56Z loke_: Every bloody time you want to do something to the gradle builds, that happens.
2016-01-20T10:08:20Z milanj_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:10:15Z loke_: Damn, it's easy to forget just how pleasant the CL development environment really is.
2016-01-20T10:10:26Z gingerale quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2016-01-20T10:10:48Z loke_: And this is in spite of me having to implement a lot of low-level libraries that are available as blackboxes in the Java world (like the RabbitMQ library I do, for example)
2016-01-20T10:11:53Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:12:26Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:12:36Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:12:58Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:13:58Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T10:16:14Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T10:16:24Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T10:18:26Z splittist: loke_: I see potato has fine clojurescript support for emojis, so it's basically feature-complete...
2016-01-20T10:18:42Z loke_: splittist: Haha :-)
2016-01-20T10:18:50Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T10:19:06Z loke_: There is an emacs client too. A pity Emojis support in emacs is nonfunctional.
2016-01-20T10:20:17Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:21:40Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T10:22:31Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:24:12Z kb_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:24:35Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:24:43Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:30:05Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-20T10:33:33Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T10:36:23Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-20T10:37:07Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:38:12Z ramky__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:40:56Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T10:41:36Z ramky_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T10:44:16Z jdz: 😱
2016-01-20T10:44:43Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:52:12Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T10:56:04Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T10:56:51Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:01:21Z loke_: Hejj jdz
2016-01-20T11:01:24Z loke_: Hello
2016-01-20T11:01:45Z vap1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T11:02:07Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:03:49Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:12:55Z vap1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T11:13:05Z jdz: loke_: emoji is just unicode characters, you can use C-x 8 RET to enter them, right?
2016-01-20T11:13:35Z loke_: jdz: Yes. I was laz in my usage of terminology. I was referring to support for coloured fonts.
2016-01-20T11:13:38Z loke_: lax
2016-01-20T11:13:56Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:14:05Z jdz: well, i'm on OSX, and emacs displays them just fine
2016-01-20T11:14:44Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:15:14Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:15:31Z loke_: jdz: You'r eusing the special OSX patched verison then I guess.
2016-01-20T11:16:01Z jdz: emacs-mac from Homebrew, yes, the best Emacs i've found for OSX
2016-01-20T11:16:55Z jdz: https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport
2016-01-20T11:18:03Z vap1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T11:18:05Z loke_: Yeah. That's not part of the real Emacs, since there is no colour font support in thatever library Emacs is using for font rendering.
2016-01-20T11:18:45Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:18:46Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:18:47Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:19:30Z aerique quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T11:20:41Z vap1 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:22:56Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T11:24:29Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T11:25:31Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:26:35Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T11:29:48Z dmiles_afk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T11:32:20Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T11:33:29Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:37:21Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:37:32Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:38:48Z ramky_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:40:43Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:41:52Z ramky__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T11:42:18Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T11:47:45Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:49:50Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:58:23Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T11:58:37Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-20T11:59:53Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T12:04:03Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:04:03Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T12:04:03Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:06:00Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T12:06:29Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T12:11:04Z BIGBOOMBA joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:13:17Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:13:27Z BIGBOOMBA: So, this is more of a style question than anything. Take a look at this hideous 'REPL' (really a 'RPL'): http://pastebin.com/6WaxUgv1
2016-01-20T12:14:01Z BIGBOOMBA: There are like five things wrong with this six-line function. What is 'the right way' here?
2016-01-20T12:14:53Z BIGBOOMBA: Not only is it ugly and clumsy, it doesn't work right. If you run it in SLIME you'll see what I mean. It doesn't loop infinitely or anything, but it's terrible.
2016-01-20T12:16:14Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:16:22Z moore33: BIGBOOMBA: You probably want to be explicit with your streams.
2016-01-20T12:16:37Z BIGBOOMBA: If someone could give me some 'RTFM guidance', that would be great. (For example, "Why are you using printc? You should be using [print|prin1|...]" or "Just see section x.y.z, it explains what you're trying to do.")
2016-01-20T12:17:00Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:17:07Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:17:22Z moore33: princ doesn't emit a carriage return...
2016-01-20T12:17:28Z BIGBOOMBA: (Or even just, "If you'd read chapter/section X/Y you wouldn't be asking this")
2016-01-20T12:18:10Z BIGBOOMBA: moore33: Yeah, I'm still not sure when to use print, princ, prin1, format, etc...
2016-01-20T12:19:05Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:20:15Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:20:58Z BIGBOOMBA: Replacing each princ with print gives something more reasonable (newlines are emitted), but the input is enclosed in extraneous quotes. I also have a one-off bug where you have to enter q twice, or at least enter q once and hit enter twice or something.
2016-01-20T12:22:20Z moore33: For the output, the classic Lisp way would be to use princ + terpri or fresh-line.
2016-01-20T12:22:22Z BIGBOOMBA: off-by-one bug* :)
2016-01-20T12:22:32Z moore33: format works too.
2016-01-20T12:22:36Z BIGBOOMBA: Ah, terpri, I had forgot...
2016-01-20T12:22:40Z Zhivago: I'd start with format.
2016-01-20T12:22:54Z BIGBOOMBA: I am afraid of format and loop :|
2016-01-20T12:23:00Z moore33: Get over it :)
2016-01-20T12:23:08Z Zhivago: Hire a small person to beat it out of you.
2016-01-20T12:23:17Z BIGBOOMBA: ;_:
2016-01-20T12:23:27Z BIGBOOMBA: haha i gave my crying guy a stroke or something
2016-01-20T12:24:43Z BIGBOOMBA: So we have one vote for "The Right Way is princ + terpri or freshline" and one vote for "The Right Way is to use format" (I'm guessing that we can add "...and loop instead of do*" to this?
2016-01-20T12:25:09Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:25:39Z moore33: That is a very small detail. format itself will make equivalent calls to princ, terpri, etc.
2016-01-20T12:25:49Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:26:05Z BIGBOOMBA: #shotsfired (jk, not trying to start a flamewar ;p)
2016-01-20T12:26:46Z Zhivago: do* is probably best kept for special occasions.
2016-01-20T12:27:24Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:27:54Z BIGBOOMBA: I think the basic answer to my "Hai guyz, why my code so bad?" question is "You aren't familiar with the entire palette of output functions" (terpri, freshline, the format wrapper)
2016-01-20T12:28:48Z BIGBOOMBA: In my defense there are like 800 defined names ;( /whine
2016-01-20T12:28:54Z moore33: BIGBOOMBA: That's one piece of the puzzle :) But even experienced Lispers don't have it all paged in.
2016-01-20T12:29:09Z moore33: Slime makes it even more complicated.
2016-01-20T12:29:40Z splittist: It's quite common to work on a nifty utility function/macro, wonder why it wasn't included in the standard, and then discover it was...
2016-01-20T12:30:04Z gingerale- joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:30:18Z moore33: BIGBOOMBA: Try using the *terminal-io* stream explicitly instead of the defaults.
2016-01-20T12:30:22Z Zhivago: The answer is almost certainly that you haven't provided a suitable abstraction for your use-case.
2016-01-20T12:30:24Z BIGBOOMBA: moore33: Yes, I knew that if I read the output chapter of CLTL2 I would answer all of my own questions, but I need to get better on skimming/scanning and I couldn't imagine reading all 100 pages straight through and staying awake...
2016-01-20T12:30:34Z Zhivago: Think about what you're trying to achieve and write something that expresses that most directly.
2016-01-20T12:30:41Z Zhivago: Then implement it however.
2016-01-20T12:32:03Z BIGBOOMBA: Zhigavo: I am trying to use that approach more. I may be misremembering, but wasn't it Norvig in PAIP who introduced that idea?
2016-01-20T12:32:04Z tcr_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T12:32:08Z tcr__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:32:24Z BIGBOOMBA: better at*
2016-01-20T12:32:26Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T12:36:16Z gingerale- is now known as gingerale
2016-01-20T12:39:25Z ramky__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:40:10Z BIGBOOMBA: So, this is for a one-player Gin Rummy game. I've got the rules of Gin encoded and I have a (very, very basic) AI (that essentially just knows how to put its cards into sets with minimal deadwood, not break up its own sets when it discards, and play for gin every time, never knocking).
2016-01-20T12:41:18Z BIGBOOMBA: I suppose, then, that I should be STARTING with things like (update-player), (prompt-player), etc., and then implement it so that the game REPL behaves the way I want it to.
2016-01-20T12:42:24Z BIGBOOMBA: Then I'm sure I'll finish and want to hook it up to CL-WHO / parenscript and realize that I haven't separated my logic and my presentation, and I'll have to go write an intermediate layer.
2016-01-20T12:42:46Z splittist: BIGBOOMBA: sounds like a plan. Make sure there's a sufficiently abstracted layer so you can attach a different front end. Oh, you just said that.
2016-01-20T12:42:54Z ramky_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T12:43:20Z BIGBOOMBA: I'm pretty thick-headed though, and I'm prone to analysis-paralysis, so I think that the only way I'll both finish the project and learn the right way will be if I smush my logic and presentation together, get it working from SLIME, and then go through the pain of separating it back out.
2016-01-20T12:45:01Z BIGBOOMBA: I also haven't done many non-trivial projects, and I haven't used CL-WHO or parenscript except for really basic proof-of-concept things, so it would probably just confuse me to try to get it right the first time.
2016-01-20T12:45:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T12:45:12Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:46:04Z BIGBOOMBA: Maybe my next game will get a general I/O module that can interface with different presentation mechanisms the first time around :)
2016-01-20T12:47:43Z BIGBOOMBA: I also plan to start lurking here once I've got a bit more LISP code under my belt. Despite the community's poor reputation, you guys have always been helpful, and I want to give back once I feel that I have something to give. I'm still at the point where my advice to "noobs" would be as likely to hurt as to help, I think.
2016-01-20T12:51:30Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-20T12:52:47Z moore33: (equalp #lisp the-community) -> nil
2016-01-20T12:54:34Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T12:54:59Z moore33: BIGBOOMBA: Don't feel bad about not knowing the semantics of everything in CL. I've been programming, and implementing, CL for close to 30 years, and I had to check the hyperspec 4 times in the last 45 minutes!
2016-01-20T12:56:05Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T12:56:23Z BIGBOOMBA: moore33: Wow! I'm honored to chat with you, greybeard :) I only hack at the REPL during my scant free time. My day job is as a help-desk monkey.
2016-01-20T12:57:06Z jfo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T12:57:34Z moore33: It is true. I do have a grey beard.
2016-01-20T12:57:53Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T12:58:05Z BIGBOOMBA: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=grey+beard <-- how awful. I meant it as a compliment.
2016-01-20T12:58:38Z BIGBOOMBA: The second definition though...Oh, Urban Dictionary.
2016-01-20T12:59:21Z moore33: That's more like it.
2016-01-20T13:00:09Z BIGBOOMBA: All right, I'm officially spamming the channel with off-topic crap. Thanks for all your help, guys.
2016-01-20T13:00:22Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T13:00:31Z BIGBOOMBA quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-20T13:01:23Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T13:01:55Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T13:02:24Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:03:57Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:06:39Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:06:55Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2016-01-20T13:07:34Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:08:04Z Zhivago: Just don't look up 'vegemite sandwich'.
2016-01-20T13:11:15Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T13:11:15Z JitanRo quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-20T13:11:42Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T13:19:38Z aerique joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:25:25Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:25:32Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:25:35Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T13:27:02Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:28:53Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T13:30:45Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T13:39:45Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:39:58Z ramky_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:42:43Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:43:36Z ramky__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-20T13:47:59Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:48:17Z galiley` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:48:35Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:48:38Z roscoe_t` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:48:41Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:48:43Z specbot quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-20T13:48:47Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:49:02Z rvchangue quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T13:49:16Z AntiSpamMeta2 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:49:16Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Killed (tepper.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2016-01-20T13:49:16Z AntiSpamMeta2 is now known as AntiSpamMeta
2016-01-20T13:50:17Z wglb` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:50:26Z isoraqathedh_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:50:42Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:05Z ccaffeini joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:07Z mtl__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:12Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:15Z algae_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:21Z joga_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:22Z sakalli_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:24Z zacts_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:25Z lvh_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:33Z nefercheprure joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:39Z zyoung_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:39Z djh_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:40Z copec_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:45Z j_king_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:49Z Walex2 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:53Z anunnaki_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:54Z nopf_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:51:54Z misv_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:52:06Z ferada_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:52:21Z eschulte2 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:52:21Z froggey_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:52:36Z White__Flame joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:52:46Z ccaffeini quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-20T13:54:07Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T13:54:11Z sbryant_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:54:20Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:54:32Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:54:41Z ivan4th` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:54:58Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:55:10Z baboon`- joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:55:10Z stepnem_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:55:33Z zeraceth joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:55:37Z wizzomafizzo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:55:58Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T13:56:00Z algae quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:01Z lnostdal_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:47Z Karl_Dscc quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:47Z Harag quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z vlatkoB quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z galiley quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z baboon` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z caffeinic quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z zacts quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z Xof quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z Walex quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z tristero quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z froggey quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z djh quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z profess quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z misv quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z ralt quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z sbryant quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z clop quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z mtl_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z isoraqathedh quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z sakalli quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z roscoe_tw quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z cell quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z ivan4th quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z saruta quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z joga quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z yeltzooo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z eschulte quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z lvh quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z tokenrove quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z alex`` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z gaya- quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z stepnem quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z nopf quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z zerac quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z jchmrt quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z anunnaki quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z wglb quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z keix quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z killmaster quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z thomas quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z wizzo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z ferada quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z TMA quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z zyoung quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z White_Flame quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z musegarden3 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:48Z hratsimihah quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:51Z j_king quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:51Z otwieracz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:51Z low-profile quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:51Z DylanJ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T13:56:51Z sbryant_ is now known as sbryant
2016-01-20T13:57:00Z copec_ is now known as copec
2016-01-20T13:57:01Z yeltzooo9 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:57:28Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T13:57:28Z Colleen quit (Quit: See you, space cowboy...)
2016-01-20T13:57:41Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:57:48Z stepnem_ is now known as stepnem
2016-01-20T13:57:48Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2016-01-20T13:57:48Z cell joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:57:48Z killmaster joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:57:48Z _death joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:57:48Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-20T13:57:51Z Colleen_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:58:03Z johs joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:58:05Z Colleen_ is now known as Colleen
2016-01-20T13:58:16Z isoraqathedh_ is now known as isoraqathedh
2016-01-20T13:58:37Z hratsimihah joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:59:06Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-20T13:59:19Z roscoe_t` is now known as roscoe_tw
2016-01-20T13:59:21Z vlatkoB_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2016-01-20T13:59:49Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:00:07Z ccaffeini joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:00:13Z tokenrove joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:00:23Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:00:46Z sweater is now known as Guest23212
2016-01-20T14:00:50Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:02:16Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:02:48Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:03:06Z clop joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:03:12Z saruta joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:03:28Z jchmrt joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:03:28Z tristero joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:03:31Z musegarden3 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:04:09Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:04:15Z low-profile joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:05:00Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:05:22Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:05:42Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:09:52Z FotDP quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T14:10:01Z fotdp_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:11:32Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T14:12:06Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T14:13:46Z rme joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:15:25Z djh_ is now known as djh
2016-01-20T14:16:28Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:16:55Z ramky_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T14:24:24Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:25:23Z Xof joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:26:11Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:27:52Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:29:33Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T14:31:41Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T14:32:34Z huza joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:32:57Z moore33: |3b|: Are you kind of the glop maintainer now?
2016-01-20T14:35:14Z Fleurety quit (Quit: Bah, stupid error messages.)
2016-01-20T14:35:34Z seg quit (Quit: kuwabara kuwabara)
2016-01-20T14:36:03Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:36:36Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T14:36:41Z Tristam quit (Quit: Some days you are the pigeon, other days the statue.)
2016-01-20T14:37:32Z seg joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:38:32Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
2016-01-20T14:42:28Z Tristam joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:48:57Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T14:52:18Z Tristam quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-20T14:55:06Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T14:56:40Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:56:53Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:56:53Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T14:56:53Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T14:59:45Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:00:11Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:01:26Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:01:26Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T15:01:26Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:01:37Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:02:10Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:02:11Z tcr__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T15:04:21Z |3b|: moore33: not sure anyone is actively maintaining it at the moment :/
2016-01-20T15:05:15Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T15:05:16Z |3b| doesn't have any objection to being the maintainer, but i'm not doing much of any coding at the moment, so wouldn't change much if i were
2016-01-20T15:05:56Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:06:30Z moore33: |3b|: Hmm, any real alternatives? I do like the fact that it's mostly in Lisp, as opposed to descending right into the FFI rabbit hole with something like glfw.
2016-01-20T15:07:38Z |3b|: well, it just has different FFI, and fewer people finding portability problems, so that might not be as much of a benefit as it sounds :p
2016-01-20T15:08:19Z moore33: |3b|: Anyway, I am feeling, or will soon :), two lacunae in glop: key modifiers, and a timeout mechanism. Those things aren't in there already, are they ? Would you be receptive to patches?
2016-01-20T15:08:28Z DylanJ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:08:28Z Tristam joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:08:28Z otwieracz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:08:28Z thomas joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:08:34Z |3b|: but if talking to the native APIs is what you want, that is the only option i know of
2016-01-20T15:08:34Z Tristam quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-20T15:08:34Z DylanJ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-20T15:08:54Z Guest63241 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T15:08:54Z Guest63241 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:09:01Z Guest63241 is now known as uber
2016-01-20T15:09:31Z Tristam joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:09:34Z |3b|: probably better to ask Patzy first, since i can't even decide if i want to add my changes to it :p
2016-01-20T15:09:36Z DylanJ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:10:09Z moore33: ok
2016-01-20T15:10:21Z |3b|: if you don't care about talking directly to native APIs, cl-sdl2 might be an alternative
2016-01-20T15:10:55Z joga_ is now known as joga
2016-01-20T15:11:04Z joga quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T15:11:04Z joga joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:12:40Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:13:41Z scymtym_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T15:14:24Z Tristam quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-20T15:14:46Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T15:16:08Z Tristam joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:16:38Z moore33: |3b|: One thing I like about glop is that it provides a function for explicitly creating a context. IIRC, glfw3 tightly couples contexts with windows.
2016-01-20T15:16:53Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:16:57Z chu quit (Signing in (chu))
2016-01-20T15:16:57Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:17:26Z chu is now known as Guest40548
2016-01-20T15:17:40Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:17:42Z Guest40548 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T15:18:14Z chu_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:18:51Z Warlock[29A] quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-20T15:19:03Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:22:31Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T15:22:46Z chu_ is now known as chu
2016-01-20T15:23:26Z uber is now known as scout
2016-01-20T15:23:42Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:25:26Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T15:26:20Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:27:38Z ramky_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:29:24Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:30:14Z rszeno joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:32:08Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:36:11Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:38:14Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:38:34Z antoszka joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:41:05Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:42:07Z znpy quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T15:42:54Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:43:27Z thomas quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
2016-01-20T15:43:40Z thomas joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:47:42Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:48:54Z mdemont quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T15:49:01Z Munksgaard quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T15:53:11Z kb_ quit
2016-01-20T15:54:58Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T15:56:50Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T15:58:22Z radioninja_work quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T15:58:34Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T15:59:59Z baboon`- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:02:25Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:03:50Z ralt joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:06:44Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:07:41Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:08:06Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:08:24Z rme quit (Quit: rme)
2016-01-20T16:08:47Z Prion_: Hie, Is that normal that I find the car/cdr recursion template hard to understand and to use? Or Am I just lacking of training?
2016-01-20T16:09:35Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:12:11Z moore33: Template?
2016-01-20T16:12:28Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:12:28Z radioninja_work quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T16:13:01Z mordocai: Also curious about the choice of words, but it should not be hard to understand if you understand linked lists.
2016-01-20T16:14:15Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:14:29Z Prion_: I'm learning the language, and I had to write a length-depth function using car/cdr recursion. I passed two hours on this exercice, just I just found the solution totaly randomly
2016-01-20T16:14:30Z rszeno: o guess is about recursion
2016-01-20T16:14:46Z milanj_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-20T16:15:08Z Prion_: I've passed most of the exercice quiet easely, but this car/cdr recursion just kick in my brain
2016-01-20T16:15:22Z Prion_: I was just asking Am I damn stupid?
2016-01-20T16:15:46Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:15:51Z moore33: Prion_: If you think about the list elements as nodes in a binary tree it might make more sense: car = left, cdr = right.
2016-01-20T16:16:15Z moore33: A normal list is just a right tree.
2016-01-20T16:16:17Z prxq: Prion_: if you haven't seen these concepts before, it's hard to grasp them right away. Give yourself some slack.
2016-01-20T16:16:20Z Prion_: I understand this, but it's the "combiner" part which really bother mee
2016-01-20T16:16:27Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-20T16:16:33Z Prion_: b
2016-01-20T16:16:40Z moore33: Prion_: I don't know what the "combiner" part is :)
2016-01-20T16:16:51Z prxq: Prion_: the trick for learning is to watch stuff you don't understand for long enouh :-)
2016-01-20T16:17:01Z Prion_: well, this part: (T (combiner (func (car x)) (func (cdr x)))
2016-01-20T16:17:01Z prxq: enough, even
2016-01-20T16:17:43Z mordocai: It might be instructive to just put all your code on a pastebin then point out the line(s) that were confusing/hard
2016-01-20T16:17:48Z Fare joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:17:51Z Prion_: When you have to pass a test on all element, it's easy, but when you have to select some result, like in length-depth when you have to select the right length, I'm mind fuck
2016-01-20T16:17:52Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:17:59Z Prion_: ye sorry
2016-01-20T16:18:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:18:22Z prxq: Prion_: patience
2016-01-20T16:18:29Z Prion_: Anyway I find that I need more train on this concept
2016-01-20T16:18:33Z mordocai: But I do agree with prxq to give yourself time.
2016-01-20T16:18:40Z Prion_: Thx people!
2016-01-20T16:19:00Z Prion_: It's good to talk when you just want to hit your head on the desk
2016-01-20T16:19:17Z prxq: that's the one thing that doesn't help :)
2016-01-20T16:19:26Z Prion_: haha :D
2016-01-20T16:19:35Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:19:41Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:20:41Z mordocai: Prion_: I've found different people get stuck of different things and it has nothing to do with their "intelligence". Some concepts are just harder for some people, others for other people.
2016-01-20T16:21:04Z Prion_: mordocai: ok :)
2016-01-20T16:21:31Z prxq: Prion_: also, don't underestmate the fact that you realize that you don't understand. that's an important ability.
2016-01-20T16:22:01Z Prion_: thanks you all :D
2016-01-20T16:22:02Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:22:03Z prxq: some people don't have that ability and it's a sorry sight
2016-01-20T16:22:24Z Prion_: Yeah that's problematic
2016-01-20T16:23:08Z Zhivago: Also rememeber that CL is a syncretic abomination of expedient hacks from the dark ages.
2016-01-20T16:23:16Z Prion_: Haha ok
2016-01-20T16:23:32Z moore33: Zhivago: Like any real language :)
2016-01-20T16:24:04Z Zhivago: Certainly, although more so with CL, since it was produced by stuffing a dozen lisps in a box and hitting them with a hammer.
2016-01-20T16:24:07Z ralt: Zhivago: the only part where I see that is in the systems/packages/files
2016-01-20T16:24:28Z ralt: having order-dependent loading, the (in-package) stuff, it's all pretty ugly tbh
2016-01-20T16:24:46Z prxq: Zhivago: that's what they did? tell me more about it.
2016-01-20T16:25:44Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:26:05Z Zhivago: Well, remember that CL was an attempt to produce a common unified language from a bunch of existing and mature dialects with commercial vendors and so on.
2016-01-20T16:26:42Z Zhivago: So there was a lot of effort by vendors to (a) include whatever supported their favourite features, and (b) exclude anything that would make them work hard.
2016-01-20T16:27:55Z Zhivago: Which explains why the library of CL is large and has a lot of overlapping functionality, yet things like subtypep are defined to be able to just punt at the drop of a feather.
2016-01-20T16:28:14Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:28:31Z warweasle: Does anyone know what λ(gensym (symbol-name _)) means? It's from syntax-sugar.
2016-01-20T16:28:47Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-20T16:28:47Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:28:58Z moore33: yuck
2016-01-20T16:29:14Z Zhivago: I'd guess that it means (lambda (_) (gensym (symbol-name _)))
2016-01-20T16:29:18Z moore33: warweasle: I suspect that _ is the implicit parameter of the lambda.
2016-01-20T16:29:21Z mordocai: Yeah, that'd be my guess
2016-01-20T16:29:55Z warweasle: I just realized I can macroexpand it...
2016-01-20T16:30:00Z mordocai: hehehe
2016-01-20T16:30:05Z _sjs_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:30:38Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:30:46Z ggole: Ugh, anaphora really make me itch
2016-01-20T16:30:54Z oleo_: lol
2016-01-20T16:31:14Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:31:37Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:31:52Z moore33: Is anyone habitually using utf-8 in their Lisp source? Just wondering.
2016-01-20T16:32:01Z oleo_: me
2016-01-20T16:32:18Z moore33: Right on.
2016-01-20T16:32:23Z oleo_: well, that happens to be my platform default too, linux.....
2016-01-20T16:32:35Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:33:29Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:33:47Z mordocai: I "use" utf-8 but I don't typically put any non-ascii characters in my source
2016-01-20T16:33:57Z mordocai: Mainly because it is harder to type them on an american keyboard
2016-01-20T16:34:31Z prxq: Currently I put umlauts in the strings. Don't know if that counts.
2016-01-20T16:34:40Z Cymew: Let's just say there are reasons Fortress never took off... ;)
2016-01-20T16:34:41Z oleo_: non-ascii characters are not only a thing about the encoding.....fonts play a role too....
2016-01-20T16:34:57Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-20T16:35:14Z mordocai: Yeah, I use Hack which doesn't have as many unicode codepoints as dejavu fonts.
2016-01-20T16:35:20Z mordocai: Only thing I don't like about the font
2016-01-20T16:35:32Z oleo_: some fonts come with the encoding say utf-8 and have lots of glyphs encoded in that range but also some in range utf-16 or so....
2016-01-20T16:35:35Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T16:35:54Z oleo_: i don't know how mulitplexing solves it all.....
2016-01-20T16:36:31Z oleo_: especially on windows you'll have some utf-16 or 32 fonts i think.....
2016-01-20T16:36:42Z oleo_: or some custom ones to be bought out there....
2016-01-20T16:36:45Z rszeno lisp source with BOM, :)
2016-01-20T16:37:37Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:37:47Z zacts_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-20T16:38:11Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T16:38:18Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:38:35Z yrdz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:39:22Z mordocai: oleo_: btw utf-8/utf-16 is an encoding which has nothing to do with fonts. What matters to fonts is what unicode codepoints they support, not what encodings.
2016-01-20T16:40:36Z mordocai: I wasn't able to quickly find a direct source for this so you don't just have to take my word, but you'll notice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_font doesn't mention utf-8/utf-16/utf-32 at all
2016-01-20T16:41:00Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:41:02Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:41:20Z Zhivago: Some systems expect a particular encoding for interpretation and display.
2016-01-20T16:41:47Z moore33: Heh, https://wingolog.org/archives/2011/05/18/value-representation-in-javascript-implementations is a pretty cool trick for using NaN values to tag pointers.
2016-01-20T16:43:02Z rszeno: ecma say that js source encoding should be utf-32
2016-01-20T16:43:46Z rszeno i don't remember if BE or LE
2016-01-20T16:45:13Z zch quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:45:53Z algae_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-20T16:46:39Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:48:38Z Zhivago: Actually, the ecmascript standard says that the encoding is irrelevant.
2016-01-20T16:48:54Z Zhivago: Or, which standard are you looking at?
2016-01-20T16:49:13Z rszeno: 5 probably
2016-01-20T16:49:27Z rszeno: but i don't remember
2016-01-20T16:49:53Z arbv quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T16:49:56Z rszeno: i also don't remember if was only for spec pourpouse or in general
2016-01-20T16:50:02Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:50:27Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:50:57Z Zhivago: 6th edition also doesn't specify a source code encoding.
2016-01-20T16:51:11Z rszeno: ECMA-262, section 6
2016-01-20T16:51:30Z rszeno: page 25, in pdf
2016-01-20T16:52:03Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:52:12Z arbv quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T16:52:39Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:52:48Z rszeno: is a little confusing, say something about normalisation to NFC then say that is irelevant
2016-01-20T16:53:36Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-20T16:54:26Z Zhivago: See 10.1 -- source text.
2016-01-20T16:54:39Z rszeno: same pdf?
2016-01-20T16:55:37Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:55:41Z Zhivago: If it has section 10.1 as source text, presumably.
2016-01-20T16:56:31Z Zhivago: All I can think is that you're confusing the source encoding with strings or something?
2016-01-20T16:56:36Z rszeno: here title is Types of excutable code
2016-01-20T16:57:08Z rszeno: no, strings are string and encoding is for the whole file
2016-01-20T16:57:18Z Zhivago: http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/Ecma-262.pdf
2016-01-20T16:57:36Z rszeno: same here from same source
2016-01-20T16:58:12Z rszeno: 6. Source Text
2016-01-20T16:58:25Z rszeno: is clear about code file encoding
2016-01-20T16:58:41Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T16:58:57Z Guest23212 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:58:58Z mordocai: .... why are we talking about JS file encoding?
2016-01-20T16:59:23Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T16:59:42Z rszeno: sorry, actualy we started with utf-8 in lisp code
2016-01-20T16:59:55Z Zhivago: There is no 6. Source Text in that file -- there is 10.1 Source Text, and it clearly specifies no particular encoding.
2016-01-20T17:00:48Z rszeno: Zhivago, open the pdf Ecma-262.pdf at page 25
2016-01-20T17:02:07Z Zhivago: Use the section numbers, so we don't need to guess if you mean the page labeled 25 of the 25th page ...
2016-01-20T17:02:34Z splittist: ain't pdf grand
2016-01-20T17:02:50Z Zhivago: Literacy is sufficient.
2016-01-20T17:03:08Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:03:50Z rszeno: Zhivago, wait, i'm sorry, the pdf from your link is not same as mine ( I just checked )
2016-01-20T17:04:56Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:05:07Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:06:06Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T17:07:11Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:07:19Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-20T17:07:58Z moore33: beach: Hi!
2016-01-20T17:08:06Z splittist: beach: you've joined just in time to see some competitive standards reading. About unicode in javascript source :(
2016-01-20T17:08:16Z mordocai: lol
2016-01-20T17:08:29Z beach: splittist: Yeah, I saw it in the logs.  Fascinating.
2016-01-20T17:09:02Z moore33: My fault...
2016-01-20T17:09:37Z fe[nl]ix: hi beach
2016-01-20T17:10:12Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T17:12:04Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:13:50Z rebelshrug joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:14:03Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-20T17:14:27Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:15:08Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:15:40Z rebelshrug quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T17:16:24Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:17:25Z beach: splittist: Any progress on your editor?
2016-01-20T17:17:40Z fotdp_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-20T17:17:59Z mordocai: So for anyone on the fence, the ebook for Common Lisp Recipes was (and probably is) 40% off
2016-01-20T17:18:09Z beach: splittist: I suppose you noticed I changed the update protocol a week or so ago?  The UPDATE function returns a new time stamps, so there is no need for a separate function for that.
2016-01-20T17:18:15Z mordocai: I enjoy it so far, better package/symbol explanation than the ones I had previously found online for sure
2016-01-20T17:18:39Z splittist: beach: not for a little bit. I can load a file, move around in it, and insert text. I didn't notice. Didn't it anyway?
2016-01-20T17:18:40Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-20T17:19:08Z beach: splittist: It might have.  But I removed the CURRENT-TIME function.
2016-01-20T17:19:30Z mordocai: Yeah, ebook still 40% off http://www.apress.com/9781484211779?gtmf=s
2016-01-20T17:19:54Z splittist: beach: OK. I guess I haven't needed that yet. And now I never will (:
2016-01-20T17:20:19Z beach: splittist: Oh, OK.  But you did tell me you are using the update protocol, yes?
2016-01-20T17:21:00Z splittist: beach: yes.
2016-01-20T17:21:08Z beach: splittist: And as a time stamp, NIL means "beginning of time".
2016-01-20T17:21:58Z splittist: beach: that used to be zero, no?
2016-01-20T17:22:16Z beach: It wasn't actually documented, but in practice, yes.
2016-01-20T17:22:31Z beach: splittist: So now you would do (defparameter *time* nil) and then (setf *time* (update buffer *time* ...))
2016-01-20T17:22:45Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T17:23:15Z beach: This modification was to allow different implementations to have different representations of time stamps.
2016-01-20T17:24:24Z splittist: beach: sure. (I use a very 2C-ish (setf (buffer-time analyzer) (cluffer:update (buffer analyzer) time ...))
2016-01-20T17:24:37Z splittist: beach: although my analyzer does nothing, yet.
2016-01-20T17:25:21Z Fare joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:25:27Z beach: OK, so all you need to do is change the initial value of (BUFFER-TIME ANALYZER) to NIL.
2016-01-20T17:26:37Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:26:45Z jibanes joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:26:46Z jibanes: hello
2016-01-20T17:26:53Z beach: splittist: ... and change (cluffer:update (buffer analyzer) time ...) to (cluffer:update (buffer analyzer) (buffer-time buffer) ...)
2016-01-20T17:26:58Z jibanes: how can I list all the constants and their values?
2016-01-20T17:26:59Z beach: Hello jibanes.
2016-01-20T17:27:35Z beach: jibanes: Loop over all symbols and check whether each one is a constant.
2016-01-20T17:27:49Z jibanes: with fboundp?
2016-01-20T17:28:03Z beach: clhs constantp
2016-01-20T17:28:03Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_consta.htm
2016-01-20T17:28:14Z jibanes: oh
2016-01-20T17:28:18Z moore33: beach: Do you have a link to the cluffer spec pdf handy?
2016-01-20T17:28:20Z jibanes: very close :)
2016-01-20T17:28:21Z beach: clhs symbol-value
2016-01-20T17:28:21Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_5.htm
2016-01-20T17:28:36Z beach: moore33: Hold on...
2016-01-20T17:28:57Z beach: moore33: Can you wait a minute?  I'll generate a new one.
2016-01-20T17:29:12Z moore33: Sure.
2016-01-20T17:29:33Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T17:29:59Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2016-01-20T17:30:03Z beach: http://metamodular.com/cluffer.pdf
2016-01-20T17:30:14Z beach: Still not entirely complete.
2016-01-20T17:32:14Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T17:32:19Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:33:26Z jibanes: beach: like this?
2016-01-20T17:33:27Z jibanes: (let ((lst ()))
2016-01-20T17:33:27Z jibanes:    (do-all-symbols (s lst)
2016-01-20T17:33:27Z jibanes:      (when (constantp s) (push (symbol-value s) lst)))
2016-01-20T17:33:27Z jibanes:    lst)
2016-01-20T17:33:47Z beach: Looks about right.
2016-01-20T17:33:51Z jibanes: well thank you sir
2016-01-20T17:33:57Z beach: You will get all keywords I think.
2016-01-20T17:34:01Z jibanes: right
2016-01-20T17:34:02Z beach: You might want to filter a bit.
2016-01-20T17:34:09Z jibanes: thank you was trying to debug something and that helps.
2016-01-20T17:34:16Z beach: Good luck.
2016-01-20T17:34:23Z jibanes: many thanks
2016-01-20T17:34:28Z beach: Anytime.
2016-01-20T17:34:47Z Guest23212 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:34:49Z beach: Oh, and please use LIST rather than LST! :)
2016-01-20T17:34:50Z _death: if it's just for debugging then it's ok, otherwise you should realize what constantp actually checks
2016-01-20T17:34:51Z new2this: oh wait do you still need help?
2016-01-20T17:37:41Z beach: _death: What are you referring to?
2016-01-20T17:38:11Z new2this: haha nothing never mind, i just forgot i had this open and got overly excited
2016-01-20T17:38:16Z new2this: its better than work
2016-01-20T17:38:18Z new2this: you know
2016-01-20T17:38:45Z _death: beach: the fact that it may return true but the value may not be available at that time
2016-01-20T17:39:03Z beach: Ah, OK.  Sure.
2016-01-20T17:39:26Z beach: Wait.  When does that happen?
2016-01-20T17:39:38Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T17:39:45Z moore33: Compilation time, maybe?
2016-01-20T17:39:50Z beach is tired from a long day of work.
2016-01-20T17:40:00Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T17:40:10Z _death: yep..
2016-01-20T17:40:54Z _death: suppose one could use boundp in that case to make sure it's available
2016-01-20T17:41:26Z beach: Sorry for not being so smart at this time of day.  How do you define a constant without giving it a value?
2016-01-20T17:42:35Z _death: beach: during compilation the compiler may take note that the symbol is a constant, and have constantp then return true for it, but the value may only be available later, say load time
2016-01-20T17:42:39Z moore33: beach: At compilation time, the environment could record that a variable is constant, but that variable might not hold the value in the compile-time environment.
2016-01-20T17:42:50Z moore33 goes to get changed :)
2016-01-20T17:43:07Z beach: Yeah, OK.  Thanks.
2016-01-20T17:43:08Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:46:17Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-20T17:46:51Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T17:46:59Z Fare: beach: hi!
2016-01-20T17:47:11Z igam quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T17:47:29Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T17:47:45Z beach: Fare: Sorry, haven't had time to do any proofreading lately.  I will, eventually, though.
2016-01-20T17:47:55Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:48:00Z Fare: np
2016-01-20T17:48:16Z Fare: I've stopped adding chapters, to stress about giving a talk about it instead
2016-01-20T17:48:28Z Fare: I have no idea how to structure said talk
2016-01-20T17:48:38Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T17:48:41Z beach: I was just going to ask. :)
2016-01-20T17:48:43Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:48:58Z Fare: I've open a save the cat template, though — but I have no idea how that maps to the ngnghm story
2016-01-20T17:49:49Z Fare: I suppose the B-story is about meta-levels.
2016-01-20T17:50:00Z Fare: the A-story being about computing vs computers
2016-01-20T17:50:17Z beach: The story format may not lend itself to a talk.
2016-01-20T17:50:17Z Fare: what is bad guys closing in???
2016-01-20T17:50:52Z Fare: https://timstout.wordpress.com/story-structure/blake-snyders-beat-sheet/
2016-01-20T17:50:56Z Fare: yeah, maybe not
2016-01-20T17:51:28Z beach: If you come up with something, I would be interested in it.
2016-01-20T17:51:45Z moore33: bbl
2016-01-20T17:52:08Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:52:16Z Fare: yeah, well, I'd like to have a basic plan for next weekend
2016-01-20T17:52:22Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-20T17:52:24Z Fare: actual speech is Feb 9
2016-01-20T17:52:53Z beach: Oh, the talk is already planned?  Do you want to reveal the audience?
2016-01-20T17:52:54Z Fare: if I manage to fit it in the beat sheet, it can be a fun talk
2016-01-20T17:52:59Z askatasuna quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-20T17:53:18Z Fare: http://www.meetup.com/LispNYC/events/224215944/
2016-01-20T17:53:27Z beach: Nice!
2016-01-20T17:54:25Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:55:18Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:55:47Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:56:45Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T17:56:53Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-20T17:56:56Z jibanes left #lisp
2016-01-20T17:57:34Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-20T17:57:52Z beach: Dinner.  I might be back briefly later.
2016-01-20T17:58:44Z Guest23212 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T18:01:38Z dougk_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T18:03:18Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:05:11Z ggole quit
2016-01-20T18:09:02Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:09:28Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T18:13:00Z RealityVoid joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:13:27Z lisse_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:14:21Z milanj_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:15:13Z KingCons_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:15:19Z sammwch joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:15:20Z yrdz` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:15:23Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:15:35Z yauz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:15:36Z stepnem_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:15:53Z Kundry_W` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:16:05Z Xach__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:16:14Z Kundry_W` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T18:16:14Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T18:16:31Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:16:49Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:16:58Z eli` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:17:08Z birk joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:17:29Z grindhold_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:17:29Z UtkarshRay quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T18:17:37Z Shozan joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:17:53Z sakalli joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:17:56Z vxxe_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:18:01Z eli quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-20T18:18:26Z Walex joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:18:39Z eli` is now known as eli
2016-01-20T18:18:39Z eli quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T18:18:39Z eli joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:18:50Z Cthulhux joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:19:30Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T18:20:13Z fotdp_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:20:15Z farhaven_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:20:17Z SilentEc1 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:20:39Z fluter_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:20:53Z joshee joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:21:18Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T18:21:42Z moredhel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:22:02Z lisse quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:22:02Z HardWall quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:22:02Z yrdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:36Z ralt quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:36Z alex`` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:36Z lateral quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:36Z stepnem quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:36Z Walex2 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:36Z sakalli_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z Xach_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z fluter quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z adhoc_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z m0li quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z z0d quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z vxxe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z heddwch quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z mnoonan quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z newcup quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z SHODAN quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z redline6561 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z zeroish quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z yvm quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z farhaven quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z yauz_2 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z joshe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z joast quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z SilentEcho quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z Cthulhux` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z grindhold quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z moredhel quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z sammwch is now known as heddwch
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z mood joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:23:37Z stepnem_ is now known as stepnem
2016-01-20T18:24:18Z z0d joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:24:19Z z0d quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T18:24:19Z z0d joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:24:48Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:24:49Z adhoc_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:25:09Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:25:09Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:28:40Z yvm joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:28:41Z mnoonan joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:29:39Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:29:47Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:29:58Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:30:34Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:30:57Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-20T18:31:09Z lisper29 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T18:32:25Z lisse_ quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T18:34:30Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-20T18:35:06Z kushal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T18:35:42Z lateral quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:35:48Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:36:06Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:36:46Z rvchangue joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:37:03Z rvchangue is now known as Guest4376
2016-01-20T18:37:38Z new2this: does anyone know of any lisp groups around the boston area?
2016-01-20T18:37:51Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:37:51Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:38:26Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:39:10Z jfo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:39:15Z jasom: new2this: I think there's one in cambridge
2016-01-20T18:39:29Z Xach__: Boston lispers get together every now and then
2016-01-20T18:39:42Z Xach__: I am now too far away to go, though :~(
2016-01-20T18:40:20Z Cthulhux quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T18:40:20Z Cthulhux joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:40:40Z rvchangue_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T18:40:48Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:41:05Z drmeister quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T18:41:13Z new2this: yea? Ill have to find it
2016-01-20T18:41:31Z new2this: im right in the area, so it would be really convenient for me
2016-01-20T18:41:41Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T18:42:22Z drmeister joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:44:00Z ramky_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T18:45:42Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:46:39Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:48:17Z Xach__: there's a boston-lisp mailing list where such things are discussed
2016-01-20T18:48:21Z lateral quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:48:21Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:48:46Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:48:46Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:50:18Z _JusSx_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:50:54Z _JusSx_: does anybody want to sell his book 'Common Lisp of Paul Graham'?
2016-01-20T18:52:31Z jasom: _JusSx_: do you mean "ANSI Common Lisp" or "On Lisp"
2016-01-20T18:53:08Z _JusSx_: yeah sorry
2016-01-20T18:53:18Z _JusSx_: ANSI COMMON LISP
2016-01-20T18:53:53Z jasom: _JusSx_: I don't have it, but used copies on amazon are around $10
2016-01-20T18:53:53Z tcr_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T18:54:01Z Xach__: I got one from ebay for about $15
2016-01-20T18:54:09Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:54:43Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:54:57Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:55:11Z Xach__: Mine was sold by a thrift store seller. You never know with ebay if there will be any offered at any given time.
2016-01-20T18:55:51Z _JusSx_: yeah i found one
2016-01-20T18:56:31Z _JusSx_: but he is not going to ship here in italy
2016-01-20T18:58:07Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T18:58:07Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:58:08Z happy-dude quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T18:58:08Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-20T18:59:07Z lateral quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:59:07Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T18:59:38Z drmeister quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T18:59:38Z drmeister joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:00:40Z varjag: check abebooks
2016-01-20T19:02:31Z fourier: _JusSx_: http://www.amazon.it/ANSI-Common-Lisp-Paul-Graham/dp/0133708756/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453316535&sr=8-1&keywords=ansi+common+lisp
2016-01-20T19:03:51Z varjag: Xach__: there?
2016-01-20T19:03:59Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:05:35Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:07:13Z lnostdal_ quit (Quit: Invest and trade anonymously: https://goo.gl/Hw81yy)
2016-01-20T19:07:24Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:08:58Z Xach__: varjag: hello
2016-01-20T19:09:14Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T19:09:17Z tcr_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T19:12:32Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:13:12Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-20T19:16:03Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T19:16:31Z Fare joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:18:55Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T19:20:33Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:20:43Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:21:18Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:21:57Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T19:21:59Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:23:49Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T19:24:35Z zacharias quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-20T19:24:55Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T19:26:25Z zch quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-20T19:26:30Z Kundry_W` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:26:34Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T19:26:35Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T19:27:40Z _JusSx_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T19:28:21Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-20T19:28:39Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-20T19:29:23Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T19:29:30Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-20T19:30:11Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:30:43Z varjag: Xach__: could you have a look if cl-jpeg now builds cleanly for you
2016-01-20T19:30:49Z varjag: see pull req
2016-01-20T19:32:51Z Xach__: varjag: the "reworked type declarations"?
2016-01-20T19:33:32Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:39:00Z joshee is now known as joshe
2016-01-20T19:39:11Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:41:47Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:45:32Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:45:39Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T19:46:04Z pjb: loke_: the curse of stackoverflow: without it, java development would have fallen over its own weight a long time ago. :-(
2016-01-20T19:46:05Z tomaw is now known as 02HAAAAAD
2016-01-20T19:47:14Z Warlock_29A quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-20T19:47:18Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:48:17Z 02HAAAAAD is now known as tomaw
2016-01-20T19:50:54Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:52:03Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-20T19:52:19Z pjb: minion: memo for BIGBOOMBA: the main problem you had with RPL is that you should always remember to flush your buffers when doing interactive I/O.
2016-01-20T19:52:20Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell BIGBOOMBA when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-20T19:53:34Z pjb: minion: memo for BIGBOOMBA: so basically, you only need FINISH-OUTPUT before reading; the other output functions are basically equivalent between themselves and don't matter.
2016-01-20T19:53:34Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell BIGBOOMBA when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-20T19:53:40Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:56:39Z badkins_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T19:58:23Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T19:59:18Z pjb: Prion_: Zhivago is right, but the point is that when you are lost in a sea of "details" (it can be code at any abstraction level it doesn't matter, when it starts to look like a sea, it means it's too low-level), then you should introduce abstractions (with meaningful names) to recover sanity.  If you paste your code we can show you what abstractions you can introduce to make it clearer.
2016-01-20T20:01:49Z varjag: Xach__: right that one
2016-01-20T20:03:24Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T20:03:38Z pjb: warweasle: when you wonder about the meaning of a reader macro, just read a quoed form, and it will (often) print the corresponding sexp. Exceptions are when the reader macro performs run-time processing (eg. #P) or when the read object has a printer reproducing the "eval" syntax (eg. sbcl backquotes). So: (quote  λ(gensym (symbol-name _))) --> should give you something useful.
2016-01-20T20:04:06Z Prion_: pjb: Thx for these word of wisdom
2016-01-20T20:04:12Z Prion_: words*
2016-01-20T20:04:26Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T20:04:41Z pjb: Prion_: basically, the first thing is to avoid null/car/cdr: if you are processing a (proper) list, then use endp/first/rest.
2016-01-20T20:05:06Z Prion_: I only use them... I'll try to change
2016-01-20T20:05:18Z pjb: Prion_: and if your conses represent some kind of structure, you can define functions to access meaningful parts of it instead of chaining car/cdr.
2016-01-20T20:06:13Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-20T20:06:18Z Prion_: It was really an exercice focused on it, but yes, with so little line I can do so much that I'm quickly lost. But I think that with more train I'll do ok
2016-01-20T20:07:52Z pjb: Prion_: everybody has between 5 and 9 neurons in their short term memory.  This is why the average size of nodes in any construct should be about 7, so that most people can grasp them.
2016-01-20T20:08:07Z iskander: pjb: sorry for interruption, but is it better to avoid car/cdr ? every decent lisp book i read so far uses it freely
2016-01-20T20:08:35Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T20:08:36Z pjb: iskander: I didn't say avoid them entirely.  But wrap them in higher level abstractions.
2016-01-20T20:09:11Z pjb: For example, (defun element-tag (x) (car x)) (defun element-attributes (x) (cadr x)) (defun element-contents (x) (cddr x))
2016-01-20T20:09:27Z mood: If what you are working with are, semantically, cons cells, use car/cdr. That won't usually be the case though, they basically always represent something
2016-01-20T20:09:36Z pjb: Then (first (element-contents e)) instead of (caddr x) is much clearer.
2016-01-20T20:09:55Z iskander: i see, you mean attach a better meaning to it then just a generic one
2016-01-20T20:10:01Z pjb: Yes.
2016-01-20T20:10:11Z iskander: agreed
2016-01-20T20:10:23Z pjb: ie. build a function abstraction, and go on building functional abstractions over functional abstractions.
2016-01-20T20:10:44Z pjb: A whole chapter (ie one quarter) of sicp is about that.
2016-01-20T20:11:24Z Prion_: I really need to read this book, but I'm afraid to mix CL and Scheme properties
2016-01-20T20:11:24Z iskander: yes, small programs can use car and cdr freely but large ones become very unreadable very fast wo meaningful abstractions
2016-01-20T20:11:24Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:11:53Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:12:09Z pjb: Prion_: indeed, you can plan to read it when you feel you know enough CL to be able to write little programs in it.
2016-01-20T20:12:21Z Prion_: pjb: ok :)
2016-01-20T20:12:21Z pjb: Prion_: http://cliki.net/exercices
2016-01-20T20:12:40Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T20:12:53Z Prion_: thx
2016-01-20T20:13:29Z strcmp1 quit (Quit: peace)
2016-01-20T20:14:18Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T20:15:15Z arbv quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T20:18:07Z tcr__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:18:07Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:18:07Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:18:12Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T20:20:07Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:20:27Z nopf_ is now known as nopf
2016-01-20T20:23:14Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:24:15Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T20:24:16Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:27:58Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-20T20:28:39Z tcr__ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T20:28:42Z lateral quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T20:28:42Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T20:29:34Z RealityVoid quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T20:30:27Z newcup joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:30:36Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T20:31:54Z frewtc4ke t
2016-01-20T20:32:03Z frewtc4ke left #lisp
2016-01-20T20:33:59Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:34:09Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-20T20:35:54Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-20T20:36:19Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:36:31Z gensym quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-20T20:37:24Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:38:23Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:39:30Z Vulcan00 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T20:42:43Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:42:55Z 77CAALZGT joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:42:55Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:42:55Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:43:21Z gensym joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:43:57Z 77CAALZGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T20:44:33Z Xach__: varjag: looks good to me with sbcl 1.3.1
2016-01-20T20:44:46Z varjag: cool
2016-01-20T20:51:02Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:51:13Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-20T20:53:26Z lateral quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T20:53:26Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T20:54:35Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:54:36Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-20T20:54:36Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:55:23Z dim: I believe there's an asdf feature to "bundle" a system into a single .lisp source file, right? does that include all the source-level dependencies?
2016-01-20T20:57:14Z Guest23212 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:57:39Z arbv quit
2016-01-20T20:58:26Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-20T20:59:32Z badkins_ is now known as badkins
2016-01-20T20:59:51Z fe[nl]ix: dim: no, it bundles all fasls into a single file
2016-01-20T21:00:21Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:02:06Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T21:02:13Z dim: oh, fasls. ok not what I want here
2016-01-20T21:02:34Z dim: does Quicklisp have a source-level bundle feature, or do you know of another solution for that?
2016-01-20T21:02:53Z Xach__: dim: into a single lisp file?
2016-01-20T21:02:57Z arbv quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T21:03:17Z Xach__: dim: quicklisp has a bundle feature where you can produce a tree of systems with their dependencies, loadable by loading a single initialization file...
2016-01-20T21:03:17Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:03:22Z dim: context/use-case: apparently in some workplaces people still can't access any internet location without asking for a specific set of URLs to be added to the proxy whitelist, so having a single file there would help them
2016-01-20T21:03:25Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T21:03:46Z mordocai: dim: tar?
2016-01-20T21:03:47Z Xach__: https://www.quicklisp.org/beta/bundles.html explains it
2016-01-20T21:03:50Z mordocai: or zip?
2016-01-20T21:04:03Z dim: mordocai: yeah, basically
2016-01-20T21:04:09Z dim: Xach__: thx, looking at that!
2016-01-20T21:04:39Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:04:50Z dim: otoh I also have automated docker builds now
2016-01-20T21:04:52Z mordocai: Yeah, tarring/zipping up the results from Xach__'s link seems like it'd work.
2016-01-20T21:05:54Z schoppenhauer quit (Quit: Adé)
2016-01-20T21:06:30Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T21:06:38Z dim:   0: ((:METHOD QL-BUNDLE::ADD-SYSTEM (T QL-BUNDLE:BUNDLE)) "asdf" #<QL-BUNDLE:BUNDLE 51 releases, 86 systems>) [fast-method]
2016-01-20T21:06:45Z dim: System "asdf" not found
2016-01-20T21:07:08Z Xach__: oh yeah, gotta fix that problem :~(
2016-01-20T21:07:23Z Xach__: it doesn't work for systems that explicitly :depend-on "asdf"
2016-01-20T21:07:57Z Wojciech_K quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T21:08:19Z dim: should I just remove that dependency from pgloader.asd file?
2016-01-20T21:10:21Z dim: here I specifically depend on :uiop
2016-01-20T21:12:29Z Bicyclidine quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T21:12:49Z Xach__: dim: do you also depend on "asdf"?
2016-01-20T21:13:03Z dim: not explicitely
2016-01-20T21:13:24Z Xach__: it's something else - one of ("asdf-dependency-grovel" "asdf-encodings" "asdf-finalizers" "asdf-linguist" "asdf-package-system" "bytecurry.asdf-ext" "bytecurry.mocks" "cl-git" "cl-git/tests" "cl-launch" "cl-rsvg2-test" "clos-fixtures" "fare-utils" "hu.dwim.asdf" "inferior-shell" "lambda-reader-8bit" "rock" "workout-timer")
2016-01-20T21:13:38Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:13:41Z Xach__: But it's really a bug in the bundler. It should simply ignore "asfd"
2016-01-20T21:13:43Z Xach__: asdf, rather
2016-01-20T21:13:58Z dim: https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/blob/master/pgloader.asd
2016-01-20T21:14:03Z Xach__: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/issues/116
2016-01-20T21:14:21Z dim: I don't have any of those in my :depends-on list
2016-01-20T21:14:41Z Xach__: dim: it's recursive, so perhaps something down the line does.
2016-01-20T21:14:46Z dim: oh, sure
2016-01-20T21:14:47Z Xach__: also: tabs!
2016-01-20T21:16:28Z tcr__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:16:28Z tcr_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T21:17:28Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:22:00Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:22:49Z dim: I have a very simple patch to add an "ignore" restart to a missing system
2016-01-20T21:23:05Z dim: in add-systems-recursively:
2016-01-20T21:23:22Z dim:                       (restart-case
2016-01-20T21:23:22Z dim:                           (ensure-system name bundle)
2016-01-20T21:23:22Z dim:                         (ignore ()
2016-01-20T21:23:22Z dim:                           :report "Ignore this system in the bundle."))
2016-01-20T21:23:33Z dim: should I even consider sending a pull request?
2016-01-20T21:24:39Z dim: well I just added the code in the issue #116
2016-01-20T21:25:19Z helio quit
2016-01-20T21:25:23Z Xach__: I just added a list of ignored systems, starting with "asdf"
2016-01-20T21:25:28Z Xach__: But a restart is good too
2016-01-20T21:25:49Z dim: it was hinted by how the bug report is written
2016-01-20T21:26:07Z dim: I guess it allows users to provide their own list of systems to ignore?
2016-01-20T21:26:20Z dim: (by means of handler-bind etc)
2016-01-20T21:26:45Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T21:26:56Z dim: in my case it's been all interactive, and I hit only one such package
2016-01-20T21:27:02Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T21:27:03Z dim: sorry, system
2016-01-20T21:28:25Z Xach__: asdf is really the only system I can picture having this problem under typical use
2016-01-20T21:28:48Z Xach__: I'm going to combine your code and mine and see if other systems crop up that would lead me to documenting and exporting the tools to extend it.
2016-01-20T21:29:25Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:29:31Z dim: sounds awesome, thanks!
2016-01-20T21:29:40Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T21:30:08Z nefercheprure is now known as TMA
2016-01-20T21:30:44Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:31:46Z dim: I am now wondering if a ql:bundle would help solve my old pet peeve of --self-upgrade
2016-01-20T21:33:10Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T21:35:12Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T21:37:10Z tcr__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T21:37:42Z tcr_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:40:09Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T21:40:10Z iskander: is it possible to set the prompt of SBCL's REPL to the current package name ?
2016-01-20T21:40:15Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:42:11Z tcr_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T21:42:53Z dim: *package*
2016-01-20T21:43:03Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-20T21:43:06Z dim: (package-name *package*) even
2016-01-20T21:43:24Z Bicyclidine: i don't know if you can set the repl prompt in bare sbcl. slime does it, among other things
2016-01-20T21:43:41Z iskander: yes, slime does it
2016-01-20T21:44:16Z iskander: dim: that prints the name of the current package but has no effect on the prompt
2016-01-20T21:45:20Z Xach__: I think you can do that, but I don't see what I expected in the manual
2016-01-20T21:45:37Z Xach__: sb-aclrepl does it, but i don't know if it uses kosher hooks or not.
2016-01-20T21:48:01Z schoppenhauer quit (Quit: Adé)
2016-01-20T21:48:15Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T21:48:21Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:49:57Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:50:14Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:53:00Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T21:54:41Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:55:00Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:55:28Z |3b|: probalby not officially supported, but (setf sb-int:*repl-prompt-fun* (lambda (s) (format s "~&~a> " (package-name *package*))))
2016-01-20T21:55:46Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:57:29Z TatriX joined #lisp
2016-01-20T21:59:38Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-20T22:00:13Z iskander: |3b|: thx, that worked perfectly
2016-01-20T22:00:35Z munksgaa1d quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T22:01:22Z jfo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T22:01:24Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:01:24Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:02:00Z iskander: it seems to be documented here: http://www.cliki.net/CMUCL%20Hints
2016-01-20T22:02:37Z |3b|: yeah, but not officially :)
2016-01-20T22:03:07Z |3b| wouldn't expect it to change any time soon, but i don't think there are any guarantees about the API exported by that package
2016-01-20T22:03:23Z |3b|: so it could in theory
2016-01-20T22:03:48Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:06:33Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T22:07:02Z ralt joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:07:06Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T22:09:20Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T22:10:18Z schoppenhauer quit (Quit: Adé)
2016-01-20T22:11:33Z lateral quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T22:11:33Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T22:11:37Z _sjs_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T22:11:43Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:12:01Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:12:01Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:13:17Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:14:10Z 77CAAABFF joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:14:40Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:15:28Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-20T22:15:56Z farhaven_ is now known as farhaven
2016-01-20T22:19:56Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-20T22:22:03Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:22:10Z _sjs quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T22:22:11Z 77CAAABFF quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T22:22:11Z lateral quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T22:22:11Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-20T22:24:52Z Kundry_W` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T22:25:27Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:25:41Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:28:09Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:29:07Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T22:30:15Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T22:32:31Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: brb codefixen. /msg afterdeath hi (unless you're staff, in which case /msg dwfreed|phone hi))
2016-01-20T22:33:03Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:34:32Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:34:55Z Guest23212 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T22:34:56Z sweater is now known as Guest925
2016-01-20T22:35:49Z arnaudga joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:36:34Z Kundry_W` joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:37:37Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-20T22:39:14Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T22:39:48Z strcmp1 quit (Quit: peace)
2016-01-20T22:41:27Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:42:44Z rvchangue joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:44:17Z arnaudga left #lisp
2016-01-20T22:47:56Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-20T22:51:00Z milanj_ is now known as milanj
2016-01-20T22:51:21Z TatriX quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T22:54:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T22:58:30Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T22:59:06Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T23:00:42Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:01:56Z Xach__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:02:56Z wooden__ joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:03:36Z replcated_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:04:04Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:04:07Z wooden_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T23:04:49Z kjeldahl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:05:06Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:05:55Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:06:19Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:06:50Z kjeldahl joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:07:38Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-20T23:09:12Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:09:34Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:10:45Z moore33 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-20T23:13:29Z munksgaa1d quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:13:47Z Denommus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-20T23:14:03Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:14:55Z Denommus quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-20T23:18:13Z ASau quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-20T23:19:09Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:19:45Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:22:24Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:24:11Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:25:24Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:26:23Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:26:50Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:29:57Z kjeldahl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:30:24Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:31:35Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:32:28Z kjeldahl joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:33:40Z Mitzelflick quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-20T23:39:45Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:40:21Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:40:23Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:41:16Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:41:34Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:45:03Z arbv quit
2016-01-20T23:46:21Z PuercoPop: Has anyone used with or seen https://github.com/capitaomorte/snooze/ Seems a good way to expose classes to HTTP simlar to python's tastypie?
2016-01-20T23:47:48Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-20T23:48:25Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-20T23:48:40Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-21T00:00:11Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-21T00:02:31Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T00:05:24Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-21T00:08:05Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T00:09:00Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:09:19Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:10:14Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:10:14Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:10:49Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:10:51Z lateral quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-21T00:10:51Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-21T00:11:01Z lateral joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:11:01Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:15:25Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T00:18:52Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:21:06Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T00:22:11Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:22:28Z Administrator is now known as Guest48181
2016-01-21T00:23:22Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:24:13Z voidengineer joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:26:55Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T00:27:08Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:31:42Z mj12` quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-21T00:31:51Z mj12` joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:32:00Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-21T00:33:13Z mj12` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T00:34:02Z mj12` joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:38:35Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T00:40:07Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:41:49Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T00:42:10Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T00:46:41Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:47:46Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T00:48:14Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:55:10Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-21T00:57:24Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-21T00:58:22Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-21T01:13:44Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:14:07Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:17:29Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T01:28:18Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:28:47Z mj12` quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-21T01:30:47Z mj12` joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:31:30Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-21T01:32:49Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:33:23Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T01:33:47Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-21T01:34:23Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:34:36Z voidengineer quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T01:35:28Z fluter_ is now known as fluter
2016-01-21T01:35:50Z yeticry_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T01:46:15Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:46:29Z clintm quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T01:46:29Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:46:29Z clintm quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T01:46:29Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:48:38Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:51:26Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T01:53:21Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-21T01:57:07Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T02:17:07Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:19:16Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T02:20:18Z lisper29 left #lisp
2016-01-21T02:27:51Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:28:09Z ikki joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:29:00Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:30:18Z m_zr0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T02:31:24Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:31:25Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:32:46Z ikki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T02:34:22Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T02:39:58Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:41:06Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:41:58Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T02:42:50Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:43:15Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:43:30Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T02:45:06Z ikki joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:51:46Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T02:52:31Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-21T02:58:35Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:06:14Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:06:32Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:07:44Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:10:14Z White__Flame is now known as White_Flame
2016-01-21T03:17:00Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:17:03Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-21T03:18:00Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:21:15Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-21T03:21:35Z Xof quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T03:22:16Z defmacro joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:29:45Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:35:10Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T03:37:15Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:37:45Z wz1000 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T03:44:50Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-21T03:45:02Z meiji11 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:46:35Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T03:52:54Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2016-01-21T03:54:09Z Vulcan00 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T03:59:26Z loke_: I'm pimping a bit: http://blog.potato.network/
2016-01-21T03:59:28Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-21T03:59:36Z loke_: (just posted)
2016-01-21T04:01:19Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:04:11Z Kundry_W` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T04:04:59Z ccaffeini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T04:08:30Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T04:09:07Z Vulcan00 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-21T04:10:56Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:11:41Z impulse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:13:26Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T04:14:35Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T04:15:08Z ccaffeini joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:16:18Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:24:16Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T04:29:43Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2016-01-21T04:30:33Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:35:23Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T04:36:37Z ikki quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-21T04:36:40Z Guest48181 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T04:40:32Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:40:45Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T04:42:32Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:42:56Z Administrator is now known as Guest82033
2016-01-21T04:47:10Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:47:11Z opcode quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-21T04:47:56Z opcode joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:52:17Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:54:00Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T04:54:03Z FreeBir__ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:55:20Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T04:57:10Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:58:33Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T04:58:52Z H4ns: loke_: nice writeup!  is html5 eventsource the same as server sent events?  sse seems to be pretty popular.
2016-01-21T04:59:11Z H4ns: ah yes.
2016-01-21T04:59:34Z H4ns: loke_: ignore me, they're the same.  i'd use that term in the blog post to spend readers from making the indirection :)
2016-01-21T04:59:47Z loke_: H4ns: Yes. It is. And unfortunately, it's so unreliable as to be completely useless.
2016-01-21T05:00:15Z loke_: Websocket is the only one you can use without having randomly missing messages.
2016-01-21T05:00:45Z H4ns: if i understand you well, websockets are great until they are not, right?
2016-01-21T05:02:25Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-21T05:02:32Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-21T05:03:24Z H4ns: loke_: would a reliable way to try whether websockets or sse work not be to have the client initiate a channel and expect the server to send a message within a short timeout period?
2016-01-21T05:03:42Z loke_: H4ns: For websocket, that works.
2016-01-21T05:04:17Z ramky_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T05:04:32Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-21T05:04:37Z loke_: For EventSource, no. I tried exactly that, and it didn't help. The problem is that corporate proxies have an almost quantum behaviour to them. Sometimes they are delayed until a certain number of bytes are sent, and sometimes they immediately let the data through.
2016-01-21T05:05:15Z loke_: So I suggest giving up on eventsource, use websocket and simply try to connect. As far as I have been able to determine, as long as you are able to get any data rghough a websocket connection, you can rely on it. If it fails, fall back to long poll.
2016-01-21T05:07:00Z H4ns: sounds good, thanks for the advice!  i have heard some good things about sse and wanted to consider them next time i have to push events to an ui, but i'll skip that.
2016-01-21T05:19:49Z loke_: It works very awesomely as long as you don't have a crappy proxy
2016-01-21T05:20:10Z loke_: I honestly wish I could figure out a way to reliably detect if such as thing is there, but I have so far failed.
2016-01-21T05:20:24Z loke_: Even using TSL is not a guarantee that it'll work
2016-01-21T05:21:37Z clintm quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-21T05:28:08Z FreeBir__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T05:30:30Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-21T05:31:28Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-21T05:31:42Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T05:32:24Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T05:32:38Z H4ns: "i can't flourish in such a crappy protocol implementation environment"
2016-01-21T05:33:16Z loke_: I meant TLS by the way
2016-01-21T05:33:30Z loke_: H4ns: Well, yes. That's exactly it.
2016-01-21T05:37:56Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp
2016-01-21T05:38:26Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T05:41:43Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T05:43:55Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-21T05:49:58Z loke_: But now it's time for some lunch.
2016-01-21T05:54:25Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-21T05:55:41Z FreeBir__ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T05:55:55Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-21T05:56:02Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T05:57:23Z FreeBir__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T06:00:22Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:01:48Z munksgaa1d quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:02:15Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:03:11Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:05:54Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:06:07Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:07:56Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-21T06:09:49Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:10:31Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T06:10:44Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:11:36Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:13:07Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:13:30Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:14:40Z vsync quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:20:32Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T06:24:15Z FreeBir__ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:24:16Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:25:53Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:28:56Z gmcastil joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:29:33Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:29:45Z defmacro quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T06:29:56Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:33:54Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:33:59Z clintm quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T06:33:59Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:33:59Z clintm quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T06:33:59Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:34:37Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:36:43Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:37:30Z FreeBir__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:45:15Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:45:22Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:50:44Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:53:08Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-21T06:55:39Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-21T06:57:44Z phax quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-21T06:59:35Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T07:00:49Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:02:09Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T07:02:11Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:14:14Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T07:17:48Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:17:55Z meiji11 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T07:18:03Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:19:13Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:22:35Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T07:25:03Z fiddlerwoaroof: loke_: you might try sending EICAR?
2016-01-21T07:25:15Z loke_: fiddlerwoaroof: What is that?
2016-01-21T07:25:35Z fiddlerwoaroof: IT's a short string virus proxies are usually configured to detect for testing purposes
2016-01-21T07:25:36Z fiddlerwoaroof: http://www.rexswain.com/eicar.html
2016-01-21T07:26:23Z fiddlerwoaroof: I don't know if web proxies filter on it, but email proxies will usually act as if you attached a virus.
2016-01-21T07:28:41Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:30:27Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:31:18Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-21T07:32:39Z loke_: fiddlerwoaroof: Interesting.
2016-01-21T07:33:05Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:33:14Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T07:33:35Z loke_: That said, I would need lots of data in order to be certain that that strategy works everywhere. Then I would still need the fallback code to long poll. Thus, using websocket with fallback to long poll isn't that much more eomplicated.
2016-01-21T07:33:37Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:33:54Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T07:33:56Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T07:37:55Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:37:57Z bolichep quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-21T07:40:44Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:41:33Z akkad: are there any chipz alternatives for zlib that use cffi/uffi instead of native that are to be recommended?
2016-01-21T07:43:48Z munksgaa1d quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T07:44:30Z vsync joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:49:26Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T07:51:48Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-21T07:57:55Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T07:58:20Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:04:36Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:04:48Z pjb` joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:04:57Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T08:06:27Z jasom: akkad: there's a decompress only one (called deflate I think)
2016-01-21T08:07:34Z wizzomafizzo is now known as wizzo
2016-01-21T08:07:50Z wizzo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T08:07:50Z wizzo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:08:25Z Guest925 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T08:09:12Z akkad: gzip-stream:with-open-gzip-file is nice and all, but I've no need to have it native :P
2016-01-21T08:09:23Z akkad: jasom: thanks
2016-01-21T08:09:27Z jasom: akkad: what do you mean by "native"
2016-01-21T08:09:37Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:10:18Z akkad: non uffi/cffi
2016-01-21T08:10:37Z jasom: oh, deflate is also written in lisp
2016-01-21T08:10:52Z jasom: there was a cl-z that used cffi, but it's not longer maintained
2016-01-21T08:11:20Z jasom: and clisp has a native module for zlib
2016-01-21T08:11:49Z akkad: Salza2 - Salza2 is a native Common Lisp compression library for creating data in the DEFLATE, ZLIB, or GZIP compression formats
2016-01-21T08:12:05Z akkad: not my word. sorry if it is offensive.
2016-01-21T08:12:07Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:12:11Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T08:12:15Z jasom: not offensive, just ambiguous
2016-01-21T08:13:12Z cadadar left #lisp
2016-01-21T08:14:10Z jasom: akkad: as far as I can tell all 4 zlib implementations on quicklisp are written in lisp, rather than bindings to the C library
2016-01-21T08:14:18Z akkad: k
2016-01-21T08:14:32Z akkad: guess I could test around. thanks
2016-01-21T08:15:19Z jasom: oh, it looks like hu.dwim.util/zlib may be cffi
2016-01-21T08:16:21Z jasom: http://hub.darcs.net/hu.dwim/hu.dwim.util/browse/source/zlib.lisp  <-- yup cffi
2016-01-21T08:17:11Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:19:02Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T08:19:23Z akkad: thanks google was not helping
2016-01-21T08:20:05Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:22:00Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:22:11Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:23:58Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:24:44Z akkad: I'll use zcat(1) and stdin :P
2016-01-21T08:25:40Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-21T08:26:24Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T08:28:28Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:29:08Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-21T08:34:14Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:34:54Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:35:44Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:37:00Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:38:15Z ralt: I've used gzip-stream recently, although I had to add a bug fix https://github.com/ralt/qldeb/blob/master/debian-package.lisp#L3-L7
2016-01-21T08:38:55Z ralt: it's the only one that could uncompress iirc
2016-01-21T08:39:04Z ralt: (uncompress in memory, that is)
2016-01-21T08:39:33Z ralt: not sure it uses lisp or cffi tho.
2016-01-21T08:40:57Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:43:01Z jasom: I'm pretty sure I used deflate with flexi-streams to uncompress in memory
2016-01-21T08:43:25Z adhoc_ left #lisp
2016-01-21T08:45:55Z test1600: hello everyone
2016-01-21T08:45:55Z test1600: could you please say what library use for user interface? I am using SBCL
2016-01-21T08:47:46Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:48:50Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:50:27Z splittist: test1600: a GUI? Text-based interfaces can be done in plain lisp with your own repl or similar, or interfacing with (n)curses (e.g. crotoan). For a wimp gui you have lots of choice, from tk to html5 to sdl to qt to plain X...
2016-01-21T08:51:21Z jasom: test1600: with the current state of affairs, I can recommend commonqt and ltk
2016-01-21T08:52:06Z jasom: ltk is good for "I just need a bunch of buttons and input fields, nothing fancy" commonqt is a lot more malleable
2016-01-21T08:52:55Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T08:54:38Z defmacro joined #lisp
2016-01-21T08:58:20Z ralt: and qtools is a pretty nice wrapper
2016-01-21T09:00:04Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:05:24Z test1600: splittist: yes, I mean GUI
2016-01-21T09:08:29Z test1600: thanks, I will try to use them
2016-01-21T09:08:38Z ramky_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T09:11:30Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:14:12Z zacharias_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-21T09:17:25Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:18:38Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:20:05Z splittist: test1600: please report back on your successes (:
2016-01-21T09:20:36Z test1600: splittist: ok)
2016-01-21T09:25:14Z splittist: test1600: qt-libs will help you set up commonqt. And, as ralt says, qtools is a nice enhancement of commonqt.
2016-01-21T09:27:06Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T09:28:02Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:28:25Z przl quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-21T09:28:42Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:29:27Z araujo_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T09:29:43Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:29:43Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T09:29:44Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:29:47Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T09:31:31Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:34:12Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:35:12Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:37:34Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T09:38:24Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:38:24Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T09:38:24Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:38:44Z Guest82033 quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-21T09:43:17Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-21T09:49:32Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-21T09:52:00Z kanru quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T09:52:25Z flip214: clhs 2.7
2016-01-21T09:52:25Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for 2.7.
2016-01-21T09:55:24Z gmcastil quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T09:59:15Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T09:59:44Z Bike joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:07:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T10:07:42Z salv0 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:10:20Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:11:26Z flip214: where in the hyperspec is the list of reader-macro-dispatched functions, eg. #a?
2016-01-21T10:11:28Z radioninja_work quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T10:12:17Z flip214: clhs dispatch-macro-character
2016-01-21T10:12:17Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for dispatch-macro-character.
2016-01-21T10:12:22Z flip214: clhs dispatch macro character
2016-01-21T10:12:42Z moore33: flip214: 2.4.8
2016-01-21T10:12:52Z moore33: In the syntax chapter.
2016-01-21T10:13:41Z flip214: moore33: thanks.... I clicked left and right through all the functions, but *that* page I didn't see. typical ;/
2016-01-21T10:14:47Z ukari quit (Quit: qicr for android: faster and better)
2016-01-21T10:18:19Z durm joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:19:37Z kanru joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:24:21Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-21T10:26:22Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:28:18Z flip214: anybody wants to explain why I can't call reader-macro functions manually? http://paste.lisp.org/display/305568
2016-01-21T10:29:18Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T10:29:38Z PuercoPop quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-21T10:31:53Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:33:21Z moore33: flip214: The function for #A calls READ with recursivep set to true... but it is not being called within a recursive read.
2016-01-21T10:33:26Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:35:19Z flip214: moore33: thanks again... so I can't use these functions (easily) to READ other data, right?
2016-01-21T10:35:26Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-21T10:35:28Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T10:36:01Z moore33: flip214: Not standalone, no.
2016-01-21T10:36:14Z flip214: thanks.
2016-01-21T10:38:21Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T10:38:36Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:38:49Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:38:54Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:42:14Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-21T10:48:04Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-21T10:48:28Z sweater is now known as Guest59394
2016-01-21T10:59:56Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T11:04:12Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:10:35Z Guest59394 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T11:11:13Z mprelude joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:11:46Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-21T11:13:25Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:16:16Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:18:06Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:18:14Z peppermachete quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-21T11:20:03Z peppermachete joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:21:30Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T11:28:13Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:28:13Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T11:28:13Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:29:30Z milanj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:31:26Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T11:32:18Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:33:01Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-21T11:33:52Z peppermachete quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-21T11:34:05Z peppermachete joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:36:12Z freehck joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:47:24Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:49:11Z kushal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T11:49:24Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-21T11:55:09Z aerique: if I eval (+) on SBCL 1.2.4.debian I get 0, but if I eval (-) I get an error about not enough arguments
2016-01-21T11:55:53Z aerique: I like the first result better since you can just apply a list with an unknown amount of items
2016-01-21T11:56:14Z flip214: aerique: - is defined to take at least one argument
2016-01-21T11:56:35Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-21T11:56:40Z flip214: (- 4 1) => 3.  (- 2) == (- 0 2). but what's (-)?
2016-01-21T11:56:58Z flip214: there's already an irregularity w.r.t. the first argument....
2016-01-21T11:57:04Z aerique: flip214: it just tickled my consistency hobgoblin in my mind
2016-01-21T11:57:13Z aerique: flip214: what's (+)?
2016-01-21T11:57:18Z flip214: from the second on they're summed, and the sum subtracted from the first, if you like.
2016-01-21T11:58:15Z aerique: well, it's off my chest now at least :-)
2016-01-21T11:58:35Z pillton quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-21T11:58:37Z flip214: aerique: "+" has the commutative property, but "-" does not. That's the difference.
2016-01-21T11:58:50Z flip214: yeah, good enough, right ;)
2016-01-21T11:59:07Z aerique: flip214: ah right, that sounds like a good reason
2016-01-21T11:59:43Z Zhivago: Why is commutativity important where there are no operands?
2016-01-21T11:59:50Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:01:11Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2016-01-21T12:02:46Z defmacro quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T12:03:12Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:03:35Z aerique: flip214: (*) and (/) works analogous to (+) and (-), so there's some consistency there
2016-01-21T12:05:15Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T12:07:22Z flip214: "-" is defined for 2 arguments. that CL allows to subtract more than one is "only" convenience; and that 1 argument is allowed is because of "confusion" with "-" as sign (ie. as convenience for (- 0 n)).
2016-01-21T12:07:37Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:07:51Z flip214: with +, the argument order and count is not (that) important (if we ignore floats and rounding issues)
2016-01-21T12:10:42Z phadthai quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-21T12:12:35Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-21T12:13:44Z moore33: The best way to think about this is that + and * of one argument supply the identity as the other argument, so the zero arg version is the identity with itself. But the one arg version of - and / do not combine with the identities.
2016-01-21T12:14:26Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T12:14:53Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:15:38Z flip214: well, they could be defined to *return* the identity elements, ie. 0 and 1 ;)
2016-01-21T12:19:50Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T12:21:23Z phadthai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:24:28Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:26:43Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-21T12:28:39Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:29:18Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:31:43Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:38:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T12:38:34Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:38:48Z Cymew quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T12:39:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T12:39:33Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:39:58Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:41:14Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-21T12:49:23Z phoe_krk: flip214: that's nice.
2016-01-21T12:49:35Z phoe_krk: (+) => 0, (/) => 1
2016-01-21T12:49:47Z phoe_krk: actually would make some sense.
2016-01-21T12:52:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T12:55:39Z jackdaniel: the second wouldnt imo
2016-01-21T12:56:05Z flip214: is that okay that using (FORMAT) on the REPL makes the output's indentation increasing with every invocation? looks like a pprint-logical-block wasn't terminated in some way.
2016-01-21T12:58:42Z easye joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:03:52Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:04:00Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:09:52Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:19:20Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T13:21:14Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T13:21:45Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:22:44Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T13:26:46Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:28:43Z wmtb joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:33:26Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:33:40Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:45:47Z scottj joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:53:01Z Warlock[29A] quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-21T13:53:51Z circ-user-EILTr joined #lisp
2016-01-21T13:57:00Z circ-user-EILTr: I created a collection like data-structure. API wise, is it better to extend from some common lisp generic sequences library, or is it better to write a driver for a iteration library (like "iterate" lets you write a driver for your own stuff)?
2016-01-21T13:58:32Z zch joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:01:48Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T14:03:11Z peppermachete quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-21T14:03:56Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:04:16Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:09:20Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T14:10:21Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T14:13:34Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T14:14:47Z flip214 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-21T14:16:29Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:17:53Z flip214 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:17:54Z flip214 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T14:17:54Z flip214 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:18:01Z hnagamin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T14:26:26Z xorox90 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:27:40Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:28:10Z seg quit (Quit: kuwabara kuwabara)
2016-01-21T14:28:58Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:28:58Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T14:28:58Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:30:01Z seg joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:30:02Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T14:35:00Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-21T14:35:02Z sambio joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:35:11Z sambio quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-21T14:35:41Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:35:50Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:36:33Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T14:41:09Z vmonteco joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:41:11Z vmonteco: Hello!
2016-01-21T14:43:14Z phoe_krk: hey vmonteco
2016-01-21T14:49:54Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T14:52:07Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:52:43Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:52:44Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T14:52:44Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T14:58:06Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T14:58:43Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:02:34Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:03:21Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:03:42Z wmtb quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-21T15:04:22Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:04:23Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T15:04:23Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:05:05Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:10:52Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:12:23Z vmonteco: I have a little question : I intend to discover LISP this week-end, I already had a preview some years ago with Scheme. But LISP is more a language family than a "real" language? So there is no really true and standard LISP, is that right? :)
2016-01-21T15:12:37Z vmonteco: s/discover/rediscover
2016-01-21T15:12:43Z moore33: Don't say that in here!
2016-01-21T15:13:09Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T15:13:39Z vmonteco: moore33: ?
2016-01-21T15:13:54Z varjag: vmonteco: Common Lisp is an ANSI standard
2016-01-21T15:13:57Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:13:58Z z0d: vmonteco: Lisp is usually used for a family of languages. but e.g. Common Lisp is an actual language
2016-01-21T15:14:06Z djh: The true lisp is the one in McCarthy's original paper ;)
2016-01-21T15:14:29Z moore33: The Lisp family is big, but Common Lisp is what we mean when we say that we "program in Lisp."
2016-01-21T15:15:01Z vmonteco: moore33: Ok :) That's also what I was wondering. ^^
2016-01-21T15:16:20Z vmonteco: So common lisp is the most... common Lisp?
2016-01-21T15:16:24Z |3b|: that's what we mean here at least, some people mean "some random subset of scheme" when they teach people lisp :/
2016-01-21T15:16:35Z |3b|: common lisp is the main one that still calls itself "lisp"
2016-01-21T15:16:55Z moore33: vmonteco: Heh, rated by absolute number of users, probably not.
2016-01-21T15:17:20Z |3b|: elisp is probably more common, just due to emacs
2016-01-21T15:17:27Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:17:29Z moore33: But the others are different enough that they strain our conception of "Lisp" and why we like to program in it.
2016-01-21T15:17:43Z vmonteco: |3b|: That's probably right I only did some Scheme before in engineering school. On paper... :S
2016-01-21T15:20:38Z kanru quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T15:20:50Z vmonteco: s/right/true, my bad
2016-01-21T15:22:00Z grindhold_ is now known as grindhold
2016-01-21T15:22:16Z vmonteco: Well, thank you for these answers. :) That was helpful!
2016-01-21T15:24:31Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T15:27:40Z moore33: Have fun!
2016-01-21T15:29:09Z vmonteco: moore33: Thank you ^^
2016-01-21T15:30:12Z loke: What's happening?
2016-01-21T15:33:39Z vmonteco quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-21T15:36:34Z galiley` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T15:37:02Z asc232 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:37:49Z asc232 left #lisp
2016-01-21T15:39:08Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-21T15:39:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T15:39:55Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T15:42:05Z khisanth_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:42:41Z Xach_: new quicklisp client
2016-01-21T15:43:56Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:44:55Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:46:41Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T15:47:48Z loke tests new QL client
2016-01-21T15:48:09Z loke: What's new?
2016-01-21T15:48:33Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:49:26Z lateral quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-21T15:52:05Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:52:17Z zch quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-21T15:53:04Z Xach_: loke: fix to bundle-systems to ignore "asdf" as a system to bundled.
2016-01-21T15:53:29Z Xach_: loke: also includes a table of fetch methods for each url scheme, with "http" the default option
2016-01-21T15:53:50Z Xach_: but you could use e.g. curl to fetch instead of the built-in http client
2016-01-21T15:54:02Z Xach_: (possibly after rewriting the URL to be https...)
2016-01-21T15:54:20Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:54:20Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T15:54:20Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T15:54:32Z loke: I see.
2016-01-21T15:54:33Z loke: Thanks!
2016-01-21T15:54:35Z Xach_: You could also replace the http handler with a function that signals an error, if you want to eliminate all fetching for e.g. a deployed, static quicklisp install.
2016-01-21T15:57:06Z flip214: does somebody want to tell me why the output of http://paste.lisp.org/display/305591 gets indented more and more on each invocation?
2016-01-21T15:57:55Z oGMo: no newline?
2016-01-21T15:58:51Z flip214: well, isn't *standard-output* being reset with the prompt anyway? that's the same stream, right?
2016-01-21T16:02:29Z flip214: oGMo: well, then take http://paste.lisp.org/display/305591#1 ... that's got (TERPRI), but the indentation of the last line grows by ~200 on each run.
2016-01-21T16:03:05Z flip214: it's very probable that it's *my* fault, I'd just like to know _what_ I'm doing wrong.
2016-01-21T16:03:43Z Xach_: flip214: show the output too.
2016-01-21T16:05:35Z loke: flip214: What happens if you out a ~% at the end of the format string instead of manually running TERPRI
2016-01-21T16:08:04Z flip214: Xach_: Paste too large.
2016-01-21T16:08:18Z flip214: because of all the whitespace
2016-01-21T16:09:02Z flip214: loke: then each recursion gets a new line, no problem then.
2016-01-21T16:09:22Z oGMo: what recursion
2016-01-21T16:09:55Z loke: flip214: Yeah, you are recursing inside a call to FORMAT... That's... interesting
2016-01-21T16:09:55Z oGMo: wait, why does the updated paste work entirely and blatantly-wrongly differently
2016-01-21T16:10:25Z oGMo: obviously in the latter paste if you call #'foo again without a newline, it's not going to have a newline after each
2016-01-21T16:10:46Z loke: flip214: Also, why do you write the code so wirdly? Just use a DOLIST or a LOOP?
2016-01-21T16:11:06Z flip214: loke: playing around with FORMAT.
2016-01-21T16:11:26Z flip214: oGMo: but there's a TERPRI just before the end, so the next output should start in column 2 again.
2016-01-21T16:11:53Z moore33: I'm very confused. Isn't the argument to ~? supposed to be another control string?
2016-01-21T16:12:02Z oGMo: flip214: once, at the end of _the entire recursion_
2016-01-21T16:12:59Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T16:13:11Z flip214: Xach_: here's the output, font size "unreadable" in an xterm: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-29500246/list.png.html
2016-01-21T16:13:33Z flip214: oGMo: right. and then there's the *same* code being called again.
2016-01-21T16:13:36Z oGMo: that's how the pretty-printer works
2016-01-21T16:13:44Z flip214: you'll need to send the data to the REPL multiple times to see that.
2016-01-21T16:14:05Z flip214: and/or possibly use the last 25 elements of *features*, with fewer it won't trigger, I found out right now.
2016-01-21T16:14:33Z flip214: moore33: FORMAT takes *instead* of a control string a function too....
2016-01-21T16:15:06Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T16:15:06Z moore33: flip214: Hah! forgot about format string compilation and all that.
2016-01-21T16:15:28Z cross joined #lisp
2016-01-21T16:16:26Z Vityok quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T16:16:31Z flip214: the screen shot was taken from http://paste.lisp.org/display/305591#2, which calls TERPRI twice...
2016-01-21T16:17:01Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-21T16:17:26Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T16:18:18Z flip214: gotta fetch the kids, BBL
2016-01-21T16:19:20Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-21T16:19:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-21T16:28:59Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-21T16:31:22Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-21T16:32:43Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-21T16:33:11Z nzambe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-21T16:33:55Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T16:34:12Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-21T16:36:30Z Munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T16:37:24Z przl quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-21T16:40:30Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-21T16:43:12Z warweasle quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-21T16:43:49Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-21T16:51:34Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T16:52:34Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-21T16:54:28Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T16:55:42Z durm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T16:58:17Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-21T16:59:47Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:08:40Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-21T17:09:41Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-21T17:11:29Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-21T17:12:23Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:13:13Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-21T17:19:29Z william_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:20:26Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T17:21:00Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:23:50Z orbiting joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:25:28Z helio quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T17:26:44Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:30:53Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T17:31:12Z flip214: any new data? could someone reproduce my findings?
2016-01-21T17:35:22Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:35:35Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T17:38:46Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:42:22Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-21T17:42:25Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:42:58Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:45:08Z fotdp_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T17:45:44Z Guest4376 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T17:46:16Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-21T17:54:53Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T17:55:15Z rvchangue_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T17:59:50Z jasom: Okay, I've had a bug repeat with the alien stack being exhausted; is it possible to get a backtrace for another thread?
2016-01-21T18:05:15Z circuitCarre joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:06:03Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:06:22Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-21T18:06:25Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:06:44Z mordocai: jasom: It's almost definitely possible, I don't know how though
2016-01-21T18:07:59Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:11:33Z ec quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-21T18:12:22Z attila_lendvai: jasom: http://paste.lisp.org/+6JT0
2016-01-21T18:12:41Z helio quit
2016-01-21T18:14:23Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-21T18:14:57Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:15:24Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:16:23Z fotdp joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:16:43Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T18:17:05Z jasom: attila_lendvai: thanks; unfortunately describe_thread_state crashed sbcl
2016-01-21T18:18:05Z jasom: attila_lendvai: the gdb backtrace had the top two functions look sane (syscall, futex_wait) but no symbols for anything above that
2016-01-21T18:18:16Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:18:51Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:19:26Z attila_lendvai: sorry, but that's all I can help now... I made these notes years ago when I struggled with a nasty bug and struggled to get a backtrace.
2016-01-21T18:19:50Z zadock joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:20:49Z jasom: oh, the author of one of the libraries I'm using thought it would be awesome to sprinkle with-dynamic-extent everywhere; would that chew up stack space?
2016-01-21T18:21:26Z attila_lendvai: jasom: yes, but not on the alien stack (unless that macro instructs stack allocation of aliens)
2016-01-21T18:21:45Z jasom thought that sbcl shared stack between alien and native on x86
2016-01-21T18:21:51Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:22:01Z jasom: or is that just the control stack that is shared
2016-01-21T18:22:05Z attila_lendvai: oh, well, that could be, I don't know
2016-01-21T18:22:41Z moei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:24:23Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:25:24Z circuitCarre quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T18:25:46Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:26:05Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:27:31Z jasom: oh, I now have a test-case; I got it caught in slime, and I'm 99% certain it's because of that stupid library
2016-01-21T18:27:39Z tech7c9 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:29:19Z tech7c9 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-21T18:29:44Z circuitCarre joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:31:10Z jasom: because it's happening close to where I call that library
2016-01-21T18:34:24Z kdas_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:34:29Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:35:06Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:35:34Z fotdp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T18:36:20Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-21T18:36:47Z kdas_ is now known as kushal
2016-01-21T18:36:49Z kushal quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T18:36:49Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:37:02Z jasom: darn, it wasn't that; it's somewhere else :(
2016-01-21T18:38:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:38:40Z fotdp joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:39:57Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2016-01-21T18:42:47Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:45:37Z jmoore joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:45:45Z jmoore is now known as vaitel`
2016-01-21T18:45:46Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:47:02Z vaitel` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T18:47:30Z wglb` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:47:34Z vaitel` joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:47:44Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:48:35Z vaitel` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T18:49:35Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:50:50Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T18:53:53Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T18:56:00Z peppermachete joined #lisp
2016-01-21T18:59:12Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T18:59:30Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-21T18:59:43Z ilopi24 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:02:32Z erased quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-21T19:03:15Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:03:15Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:05:39Z dxtr quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T19:05:43Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:08:49Z dxtr joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:12:25Z Fe50 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:13:36Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:13:37Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:16:38Z ilopi24 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-21T19:17:26Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T19:18:54Z Fe50 is now known as F568M
2016-01-21T19:21:02Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:21:14Z gingerale- joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:23:34Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-21T19:23:57Z bin7me joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:24:45Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:25:17Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:26:03Z gingerale- quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T19:26:04Z F568M is now known as M-346
2016-01-21T19:26:37Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:28:34Z M-346 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-21T19:31:38Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:31:41Z flip214: clhs 22.2.22
2016-01-21T19:31:41Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for 22.2.22.
2016-01-21T19:32:19Z jasom: TIL that with-foreign-pointer allocates on the stack
2016-01-21T19:32:36Z jasom: or more properly may allocate on the stack, and does on sbcl
2016-01-21T19:35:56Z norfumpit quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T19:36:21Z erased quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T19:37:48Z norfumpit joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:42:14Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:47:23Z Wojciech_K quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T19:49:09Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:49:24Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T19:49:53Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:50:02Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-21T19:51:13Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T19:53:19Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:55:57Z Kundry_W` joined #lisp
2016-01-21T19:56:17Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T19:57:45Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T20:01:01Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-21T20:01:32Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:02:09Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:08:06Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:09:10Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:10:41Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:10:45Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:14:27Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T20:15:15Z circuitCarre quit (Quit: circuitCarre)
2016-01-21T20:15:16Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T20:15:24Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T20:15:50Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T20:17:14Z orbiting quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T20:17:30Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-21T20:18:41Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:21:53Z optikalmouse: clojurescript: https://github.com/omcljs/om/blob/master/src/main/om/core.cljs
2016-01-21T20:22:02Z optikalmouse: ^ I can't tell if that's discoverable at all or if it's written well
2016-01-21T20:22:10Z optikalmouse: and probably belongs in #clojure
2016-01-21T20:23:40Z wz1000 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-21T20:25:54Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2016-01-21T20:27:02Z pjb: dim: to bundle all sources, you would have to wrap each of them in (eval-when (:compile-topleve :load-toplevel :execute) …).
2016-01-21T20:28:10Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T20:28:40Z fotdp quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-21T20:29:09Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:31:45Z pjb: dim: you would also have to bind *read-table* and *package*, thus rendering the code non-toplevel, which would be a problem.
2016-01-21T20:32:15Z pjb: (so you cannot use a trivial "cat").
2016-01-21T20:34:53Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T20:40:01Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:41:17Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T20:43:42Z wglb joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:45:56Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T20:46:01Z bamorim joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:50:55Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:51:34Z salv0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T20:51:43Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:52:23Z jocuman joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:53:39Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:53:53Z tristero quit (Quit: tristero)
2016-01-21T20:54:29Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:54:44Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T20:54:44Z Kundry_W` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T20:55:19Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-21T20:57:47Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:01:39Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:05:25Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:06:37Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:08:56Z nyef quit (Quit: Gone for at least a couple of hours, hopefully not more than a couple of days)
2016-01-21T21:13:38Z FerrisWheel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:14:43Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-21T21:15:02Z FerrisWheel__ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-21T21:19:16Z freehck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T21:20:29Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:20:50Z william__ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:20:55Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T21:21:03Z william_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-21T21:23:29Z william__ quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T21:23:29Z william__ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:23:41Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:24:11Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T21:24:58Z mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:26:36Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:26:38Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:27:53Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:31:33Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:31:39Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-21T21:34:12Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:34:16Z salv0 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:34:35Z sweater is now known as Guest85564
2016-01-21T21:34:45Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T21:35:16Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-21T21:38:04Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:38:18Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:43:19Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-21T21:44:00Z bin7me quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T21:46:14Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-21T21:47:04Z Trystam joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:47:34Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T21:48:29Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T21:52:34Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-21T21:54:06Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:54:40Z quazimod1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T21:54:42Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T21:54:49Z Trystam quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-21T21:55:27Z Kundry_Wag: Why doesn't append copy all lists instead of all but the last one? I find this behaviour confusing, because if you modify some object in the first list, it won't modify the list created with append. However, if you do with the last list passed to append, it will modify the original list too, I think.
2016-01-21T21:56:20Z tristero joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:56:23Z Bicyclidine: Because append doesn't need to fiddle with the cdrs of the last list, like it does with all the others.
2016-01-21T21:56:31Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:56:38Z Bicyclidine: and yes, you understand the side effect behavior correctly.
2016-01-21T21:56:41Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T21:57:01Z Trystam joined #lisp
2016-01-21T21:58:42Z dwchandler: concatenate work for your case?
2016-01-21T21:58:55Z Kundry_Wag: Bicyclidine: Thanks. What would be the equivalent function that copy all lists?
2016-01-21T21:59:17Z Bicyclidine: there isn't one. uh, unless concatenate does, i forget.
2016-01-21T21:59:28Z dwchandler: it does
2016-01-21T21:59:31Z Bicyclidine: "All of the sequences are copied from; the result does not share any structure with any of the sequences." yep, there you go
2016-01-21T21:59:36Z Kundry_Wag: dwchandler: I'm reading Practical Common Lisp and found this, I have no concrete case yet.
2016-01-21T21:59:46Z Guest85564 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T21:59:56Z dwchandler: it's important, so remember it ;-)
2016-01-21T22:00:13Z Kundry_Wag: Bicyclidine: Cool, thanks :)
2016-01-21T22:01:15Z White_Flame: Modifying lists is not done that often in practice, in my experience.  If you're going to be directly mutating list data, it's generally an optimization, and thus you're probably going to end up using structs or something instead.
2016-01-21T22:01:59Z White_Flame: So stick to non-destructive list operations and you'll be happy, until you start pushing the CPU and need to evaluate other options.
2016-01-21T22:07:39Z Kundry_Wag: White_Flame: Thanks
2016-01-21T22:09:27Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:09:28Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:12:55Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-21T22:15:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:15:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-21T22:15:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:17:26Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T22:17:54Z momo-reina joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:18:22Z froggey_ is now known as froggey
2016-01-21T22:19:57Z momo-reina quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-21T22:20:10Z momo-reina joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:20:31Z jocuman quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T22:26:27Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-21T22:31:07Z pillton joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:31:28Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:32:00Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:35:24Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-21T22:36:20Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-21T22:39:30Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-21T22:41:23Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:45:57Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: apt-get update; apt-get upgrade AntiSpamMeta; killall meta.pl)
2016-01-21T22:46:14Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:46:38Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:48:30Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2016-01-21T22:48:51Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-21T22:51:50Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:52:02Z Kundry_W` joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:53:26Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T22:53:48Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-21T22:54:36Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-21T22:55:43Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-21T22:56:26Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-21T22:57:01Z skbierm joined #lisp
2016-01-21T22:59:52Z Xach__ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T23:00:23Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T23:01:46Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T23:04:22Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T23:05:11Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T23:06:41Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-21T23:09:22Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T23:10:23Z starman_ joined #lisp
2016-01-21T23:10:33Z starman_ left #lisp
2016-01-21T23:11:27Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T23:11:27Z quazimod1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T23:11:34Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-21T23:14:38Z momo-reina quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T23:15:16Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-21T23:19:43Z ghard quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T23:24:38Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T23:25:49Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-21T23:27:18Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-21T23:41:05Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: brb, /msg dwfreed|phone hi)
2016-01-21T23:41:12Z Kundry_W` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-21T23:41:36Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-21T23:41:59Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-21T23:46:55Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-21T23:48:38Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-21T23:52:22Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-21T23:52:23Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-21T23:57:30Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:00:13Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:00:34Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T00:02:26Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:03:15Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:03:54Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-22T00:04:49Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:05:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:08:47Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T00:10:30Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T00:11:07Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:12:43Z skbierm quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T00:18:40Z lisper29 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T00:20:11Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:21:08Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:30:52Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T00:32:37Z MBstream joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:33:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:33:30Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-22T00:38:33Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T00:40:24Z bamorim quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:42:42Z strcmp1 quit (Quit: peace)
2016-01-22T00:46:08Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:49:28Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:51:11Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:51:20Z dan64- quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:52:54Z sigjuice quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:52:59Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:54:56Z bamorim joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:55:06Z porky11 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T00:55:32Z dan64 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:56:45Z fn2187_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:58:12Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-22T00:58:50Z sigjuice joined #lisp
2016-01-22T00:59:35Z fn2187 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T01:01:26Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T01:04:55Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T01:05:20Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: code update brb)
2016-01-22T01:05:54Z helio quit
2016-01-22T01:06:11Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:06:13Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:06:18Z _sigjuice_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:06:54Z _sigjuice_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-22T01:12:54Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-22T01:13:29Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:13:59Z bamorim quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T01:15:18Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:15:22Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:18:06Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T01:18:06Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T01:27:33Z fotdp joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:29:24Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.)
2016-01-22T01:32:24Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T01:33:01Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:33:52Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:34:50Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:34:50Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:35:40Z Xach__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T01:38:01Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T01:38:26Z meiji11 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:39:02Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T01:52:19Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:54:12Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:54:33Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:54:54Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:55:30Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T01:56:40Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:58:02Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T01:58:47Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T01:58:49Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-22T02:02:50Z noark9 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:05:21Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:13:02Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T02:14:12Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:14:18Z _sjs quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T02:14:35Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:15:12Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:17:41Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:19:21Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T02:24:11Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:25:42Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T02:29:49Z m_zr0_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:33:11Z m_zr0 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T02:35:06Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:37:52Z bamorim joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:38:40Z strcmp1 quit (Quit: peace)
2016-01-22T02:38:48Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:42:00Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T02:47:20Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T02:47:47Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:53:23Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:54:03Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-22T02:54:18Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:56:37Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-22T02:59:16Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-22T03:01:04Z Bike joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:03:10Z william__ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-22T03:05:40Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T03:05:55Z MBstream quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T03:06:09Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:14:56Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:15:56Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:19:56Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T03:21:41Z happy-dude quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T03:24:44Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:27:22Z s00pcan quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-22T03:28:10Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:31:08Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T03:31:37Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:34:31Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T03:34:40Z FreeBir__ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:37:28Z dmiles_afk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T03:37:32Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:40:08Z IAmRasputin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:41:49Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T03:46:21Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:47:04Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:48:30Z tclamb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T03:50:07Z tclamb joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:53:57Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T03:54:02Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:56:51Z kini joined #lisp
2016-01-22T03:57:06Z bamorim quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T04:05:16Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T04:08:06Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T04:13:28Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T04:15:00Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:15:42Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:17:49Z IAmRasputin quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-22T04:19:42Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T04:20:15Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T04:20:58Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T04:26:41Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T04:27:02Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T04:28:33Z dwchandl1r joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:28:54Z dwchandl1r quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-22T04:29:17Z dwchandler quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-22T04:30:23Z dwchandler joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:30:26Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T04:31:15Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:33:18Z mitzelflick quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T04:33:56Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:37:44Z holycow2 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:38:35Z holycow2: AeroNotix: *ping* thank you for Lispkit.  I have used it now for a couple of days, pretty damn sweet for such an early release.
2016-01-22T04:40:49Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:40:49Z phax quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-22T04:42:42Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-22T04:42:57Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:46:23Z dextertzu joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:50:27Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:51:23Z Administ1ator joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:53:36Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T04:55:54Z dextertzu quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-22T04:56:10Z dextertzu joined #lisp
2016-01-22T04:59:05Z circ-user-EILTr quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T05:00:31Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-22T05:08:49Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:08:58Z circ-user-EILTr joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:09:50Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:09:57Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-22T05:10:39Z milanj quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T05:11:02Z holycow2: morning kind sir
2016-01-22T05:15:53Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:17:49Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:18:05Z moore33: beach: Good morning. Seems that I'm on your schedule.
2016-01-22T05:18:34Z beach: Hello moore33.  Yes, indeed.  You too I take it.
2016-01-22T05:19:17Z moore33: Anyone have thoughts on the technique of making initargs not be keywords?
2016-01-22T05:19:42Z moore33: beach: I woke up at 5 and realized that I hadn't put the garbage out... so what to do but get up and hack :)
2016-01-22T05:20:05Z beach: I feel your pain. :)
2016-01-22T05:20:14Z moore33: heh
2016-01-22T05:22:18Z beach: moore33: Sometimes I wish initargs were not keywords.  In the past, I have tried to inherit from existing classes, only to find that my initargs clash with the existing ones.
2016-01-22T05:22:23Z MBstream joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:22:49Z test1600: Good morning
2016-01-22T05:23:04Z beach: Hello test1600.
2016-01-22T05:23:14Z moore33: beach: I think I saw Kent Pitman describe the technique in comp.lang.lisp years ago.
2016-01-22T05:23:22Z moore33: For exactly that reason...
2016-01-22T05:24:00Z beach: moore33: There is nothing particular to it, right?  Just don't make them keywords. No?
2016-01-22T05:24:02Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:24:37Z moore33: beach: That's right. It doesn't take any more typing, just an adaptation on the part of the programmer.
2016-01-22T05:25:13Z beach: Yeah.  One has to get used to it.
2016-01-22T05:27:39Z moore33: Heh, I would need to check how to write the default-initargs option if the symbols aren't keywords... I imagine that the initargs aren't evaluated.
2016-01-22T05:28:32Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-22T05:28:36Z beach: Yes, good question.
2016-01-22T05:28:45Z beach: I don't know by heart either.
2016-01-22T05:29:08Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T05:34:02Z Administ1ator quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-22T05:34:29Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:39:16Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:39:44Z moore33: off to make breakfast
2016-01-22T05:40:39Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:42:16Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T05:50:40Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:51:05Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:53:05Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-22T05:53:08Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T05:54:21Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-22T05:57:25Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T05:57:54Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:01:47Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:01:56Z kushal quit (Changing host)
2016-01-22T06:01:56Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:02:24Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T06:04:08Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:05:48Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:07:04Z cmatei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T06:07:25Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:11:39Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:17:37Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T06:18:35Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T06:20:42Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T06:22:04Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-22T06:29:54Z wz1000 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-22T06:31:31Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:32:17Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T06:33:12Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T06:35:26Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-22T06:37:28Z flip214: H4ns: some of your commits in hunchentoot have an ü in your nam, some do not. JFI, in case you want to fix that.
2016-01-22T06:37:41Z flip214: for future commits is what I meant.
2016-01-22T06:37:45Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:41:55Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:46:49Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-22T06:48:01Z jameser joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:50:30Z jasom: debugger invoked on a LOAD-SYSTEM-DEFINITION-ERROR in thread #<THREAD "main thread" RUNNING {1002AE41B3}>: Error while trying to load definition for system jonathan from pathname /home/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/jonathan-20151218-git/jonathan.asd: READ error during LOAD: :ASCII stream decoding error on #<SB-SYS:FD-STREAM for "file /home/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/jonathan-20151218-git/README.md"
2016-01-22T06:50:31Z jasom: {1004E87A33}>: the octet sequence #(227) cannot be decoded.(in form starting at line: 6, column: 0, position: 95)
2016-01-22T06:50:54Z jasom: whoops, should have paste-binned that
2016-01-22T06:51:17Z meiji11 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T06:52:08Z Bike: change locale?
2016-01-22T06:52:28Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:52:29Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-22T06:53:13Z Warlock[29A]: Hi all. What anyone is using for refactoring lisp the code in emacs? In particular rename all methods or variables. And also for navigation by code? Thank's.
2016-01-22T06:53:29Z phax left #lisp
2016-01-22T06:54:12Z jasom: Bike: I consider it a bug that jonathan can't be loaded unless the locale is utf-8?
2016-01-22T06:54:49Z Bike: oh, i see
2016-01-22T06:55:52Z Bike: ...wait, why is it even looking at the readme
2016-01-22T06:56:06Z Bike: oh, for the long description.
2016-01-22T06:57:46Z Bike: take it up with them, i guess. the long description might be a little long, and might not need the unicode examples.
2016-01-22T07:00:57Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:01:29Z sigjuice: what is the purpose of list* ?
2016-01-22T07:03:26Z Bike: it's nice when writing macros without backquote, and a few other things.
2016-01-22T07:04:58Z cabaire quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-22T07:13:31Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:17:11Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:19:43Z ukari quit (Quit: qicr for android: faster and better)
2016-01-22T07:20:02Z tmtwd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T07:22:14Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:22:33Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:27:15Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:27:15Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:27:16Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:27:48Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T07:30:10Z mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:34:24Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T07:35:02Z mitzelflick quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T07:35:55Z mbuf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T07:39:44Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T07:43:18Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T07:43:41Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:45:02Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:46:58Z moore33 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T07:51:32Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-22T07:54:56Z fn2187_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T07:57:34Z mbuf quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T07:59:05Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:02:34Z easye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T08:02:55Z jameser` joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:03:06Z easye joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:04:50Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:05:05Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T08:06:35Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:09:57Z fn2187 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:10:19Z je4i: Warlock[29A]: Navigation with slime-edit-command, M-. Finds source of functions, ...
2016-01-22T08:10:32Z loke_: sigjuice: It's useful when you want to create a list and append another list.
2016-01-22T08:10:45Z je4i: Back with M-,
2016-01-22T08:10:49Z loke_: (list* x y z) → (append (list x y) z)
2016-01-22T08:11:14Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:12:53Z je4i: Refactoring in Emacs see http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/7595/how-do-i-refactor-across-a-project-in-emacs-change-method-name-everywhere
2016-01-22T08:21:40Z jameser` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T08:21:56Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-22T08:25:27Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:26:54Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:30:39Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:35:41Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:36:09Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:38:05Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:38:46Z _cosmona` joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:39:58Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:40:22Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T08:40:35Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T08:41:20Z araujo_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-22T08:42:08Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:43:12Z _cosmona` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T08:43:33Z araujo_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-22T08:44:16Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-22T08:44:21Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:45:55Z phax quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T08:46:24Z josteink quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T08:46:46Z josteink joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:47:46Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T08:48:09Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:52:40Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T08:53:26Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:54:15Z tmtwd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T08:55:16Z josteink quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T08:55:50Z Vityok joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:57:05Z josteink joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:58:00Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:59:17Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-22T08:59:37Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T09:01:16Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T09:03:58Z josteink quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T09:05:22Z josteink joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:10:30Z triagle joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:13:11Z arcanemethods joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:14:12Z gniourf quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T09:18:22Z triagle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T09:19:29Z arcanemethods quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-22T09:19:55Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T09:20:35Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:23:48Z arcane-methods joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:24:56Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:25:27Z arcane-methods quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-22T09:26:52Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T09:28:26Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:28:58Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:29:40Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T09:29:55Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T09:30:30Z araujo_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T09:30:50Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:30:51Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-22T09:30:51Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:31:55Z yaewa joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:33:29Z moei quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T09:34:50Z AeroNotix: holycow2: you're welcome. I really welcome patches/tickets/etc
2016-01-22T09:36:23Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:39:46Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-22T09:40:23Z arcane-methods joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:41:32Z arcane-methods quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-22T09:42:16Z arcane-methods joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:43:26Z arcane-methods quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-22T09:43:55Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:44:09Z arcane-methods joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:45:21Z arcane-methods quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-22T09:45:32Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:47:04Z arcane-methods joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:47:05Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:48:29Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-22T09:52:01Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:00:32Z arcane-methods quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T10:04:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:04:30Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-22T10:04:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:05:23Z arcane-methods joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:07:40Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:07:43Z triagle joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:08:27Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:12:19Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T10:16:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T10:16:58Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:19:22Z MBstream quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T10:22:56Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T10:24:24Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:25:43Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:25:46Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T10:26:44Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:26:45Z gaya-: hey guy, can anyone tell me what's the best practice of using symbols in defpackage?
2016-01-22T10:26:58Z gaya-: should everything be uninterned
2016-01-22T10:27:10Z gaya-: or can it be a keyword and stuff
2016-01-22T10:27:26Z gaya-: (defpackage #:my-package) vs. (defpackage my-package)
2016-01-22T10:28:14Z moore33: gaya: Go with uninterned.
2016-01-22T10:28:39Z gaya-: and what about nicknames, exports? everything? it kinda starts to look bulky
2016-01-22T10:28:40Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:28:48Z jackdaniel: unless you have some good reason to intern it, uninterned is better
2016-01-22T10:28:49Z moore33: gaya: Otherwise, you are creating garbage symbols that will never be GCed.
2016-01-22T10:29:14Z moore33: Not that you are likely to run out of memory on account of that, but still :)
2016-01-22T10:29:19Z gaya-: ok, so i have (defpackage #:pack), how do i (in-package ?) it then
2016-01-22T10:29:42Z moore33: (in-package #:pack)
2016-01-22T10:30:51Z mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:31:35Z gaya-: it does look weird tho
2016-01-22T10:31:46Z gaya-: this guy uses keywords
2016-01-22T10:31:47Z gaya-: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/programming-in-the-large-packages-and-symbols.html
2016-01-22T10:32:04Z gaya-: you guys personally always use #: ?
2016-01-22T10:32:14Z moore33: Yup.
2016-01-22T10:32:26Z jackdaniel: let me check :)
2016-01-22T10:32:44Z jackdaniel: gaya-: yes
2016-01-22T10:32:50Z gaya-: hehe
2016-01-22T10:32:52Z gaya-: ok thanks a lot!
2016-01-22T10:32:54Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T10:34:16Z moore33: gaya: See footnote 8 on the gigamonkeys page.
2016-01-22T10:35:03Z gaya-: oooh, perfect, it's clear now ^^
2016-01-22T10:35:16Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T10:35:40Z mitzelflick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T10:36:33Z yaewa quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-22T10:36:50Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:37:14Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-22T10:37:44Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T10:39:59Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:42:34Z arcane-methods quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T10:45:09Z triagle quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-22T10:45:47Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T10:45:51Z FreeBir__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T10:47:48Z Shozan is now known as SHODAN
2016-01-22T10:55:00Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:01:28Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:05:02Z wz1000 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:11:36Z pillton quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-22T11:12:36Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:13:59Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:18:32Z pillton joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:18:35Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:18:54Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:21:50Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:25:03Z Xof joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:25:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:35:23Z noark9 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T11:36:42Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:36:47Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:38:48Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:40:01Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:43:12Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:44:35Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:46:05Z erased quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:48:39Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:48:50Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:50:10Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T11:52:36Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T11:52:39Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:52:44Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-22T11:54:22Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:55:09Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-22T11:57:11Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:57:35Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T11:59:30Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T12:00:27Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:01:04Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:07:01Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:08:09Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:09:06Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T12:09:19Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T12:10:52Z eudoxia quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-22T12:13:31Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:13:45Z quasus joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:14:43Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:14:52Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:16:14Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:18:59Z kartik joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:21:22Z k4rtik quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T12:22:24Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T12:23:34Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:24:00Z Prion_: b
2016-01-22T12:25:20Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T12:25:22Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:27:05Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T12:27:26Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:28:35Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T12:29:12Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:35:12Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-22T12:35:32Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T12:37:44Z wz1000 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-22T12:38:10Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T12:38:28Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:39:48Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:40:10Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:42:02Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T12:45:24Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:48:30Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T12:51:04Z erased quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T12:53:19Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:54:55Z nowhereman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T12:57:07Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-22T12:57:29Z phoe_krk: y
2016-01-22T13:01:21Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:04:31Z zacharias_ is now known as zacharias
2016-01-22T13:08:50Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:16:50Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:18:40Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:18:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-22T13:18:41Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:20:50Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:20:58Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T13:26:11Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T13:26:54Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T13:28:54Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:31:31Z mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:36:09Z mitzelflick quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T13:37:51Z treaki joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:40:12Z br0kenman joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:41:51Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:41:59Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:42:57Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:43:07Z LiamH left #lisp
2016-01-22T13:43:33Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:44:15Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:44:42Z synchromesh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T13:44:55Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:45:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:47:28Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:47:56Z danlentz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:48:17Z EvW quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T13:49:23Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T13:50:06Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T13:50:50Z danlentz_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-22T13:51:56Z ryan_vw_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:53:01Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:54:46Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T13:55:15Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T13:55:43Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:57:25Z danlentz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:58:23Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:58:24Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-22T13:58:24Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T13:58:51Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:04:10Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:06:33Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T14:07:28Z circ-user-EILTr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T14:07:29Z Zackio joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:07:36Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T14:08:17Z Zackio: hi, has anyone here got experience with cross compiling ECL from Linux to Windows using mingw32-gc
2016-01-22T14:08:19Z Zackio: cc
2016-01-22T14:11:45Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-22T14:14:35Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T14:14:52Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:15:55Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:18:23Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:20:36Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T14:21:55Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:23:42Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:26:06Z mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:26:30Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T14:27:52Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:28:52Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T14:29:57Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:30:36Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:35:44Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T14:37:14Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T14:42:52Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T14:44:11Z seg quit (Quit: kuwabara kuwabara)
2016-01-22T14:44:38Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:44:46Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:45:30Z jackdaniel: Zackio: I've commented on the issue on gitlab. I have no setup to verify that, but I believe it should do the trick
2016-01-22T14:45:53Z splittist: Anyone have suggestions for a body of modern parenscript code to study?
2016-01-22T14:45:54Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:45:59Z Zackio: jackdaniel: thanks, taking a look now
2016-01-22T14:46:02Z seg joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:46:27Z jackdaniel: I'm offline right now, I should be ~9pm CET
2016-01-22T14:46:43Z Zackio: jackdaniel: ah my suspicion was right, i was looking at those exact lines
2016-01-22T14:46:46Z Zackio: thanks :)
2016-01-22T14:46:51Z jackdaniel: yw :) gl
2016-01-22T14:47:06Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:47:49Z Warlock[29A] quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-22T14:51:45Z Zackio: it built!
2016-01-22T14:51:48Z Zackio: thanks again
2016-01-22T14:54:30Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:54:43Z strcmp1 quit (Quit: peace)
2016-01-22T14:57:17Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-22T14:57:55Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T15:00:04Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T15:02:23Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:02:47Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:03:12Z sweater is now known as Guest85082
2016-01-22T15:03:25Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-22T15:04:01Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T15:04:11Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:04:22Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:06:59Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:08:11Z cabaire quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-22T15:08:18Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:09:20Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:09:30Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:11:00Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:11:37Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:16:14Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:18:36Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T15:25:41Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:26:40Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T15:28:32Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:32:16Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T15:36:25Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:38:27Z mdemont quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T15:38:36Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:38:59Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-22T15:42:40Z drmeister: After 15 min of trying different things...
2016-01-22T15:43:26Z drmeister: What is a format recipe for printing a number base 36 with a width of 3 characters and preceding zero #\0 character?
2016-01-22T15:43:51Z drmeister: Something like (format t "~36r~%" 43)
2016-01-22T15:44:00Z drmeister: That prints "017"
2016-01-22T15:44:53Z drmeister: And (format t "~36r~%" 934)  --> 0PY
2016-01-22T15:46:20Z drmeister: I need to generate unique names for lots of atoms and they have to fit into 3 characters.  So names like C0ZU and NFZ3 are what I'm looking for.   It's 2016 and I'm trying to fit things into freakin' FORTRAN formatted data structures.
2016-01-22T15:47:16Z drmeister: Inside of every computational chemistry package there lurk a stack of Hollerith cards.
2016-01-22T15:48:33Z InvalidCo: drmeister: (format t "~36,3,'0r~%" 43)
2016-01-22T15:49:00Z drmeister: That single quote - I always forget that single quote.
2016-01-22T15:49:02Z drmeister: Thank you.
2016-01-22T15:49:10Z InvalidCo: np sir
2016-01-22T15:49:15Z drmeister: What does the single quote do again?
2016-01-22T15:49:27Z InvalidCo: it makes it a character
2016-01-22T15:49:40Z InvalidCo: ...I guess
2016-01-22T15:49:56Z InvalidCo: I really try not to look too much into brainfuck-like syntaxes
2016-01-22T15:50:34Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:52:39Z InvalidCo: yup, clhs calls them things "prefix parameters" and they can be either signed decimals or characters (which are marked by a single-quote)
2016-01-22T15:53:03Z InvalidCo: In place of a prefix parameter to a directive, V (or v) can be used. In this case, format takes an argument from args as a parameter to the directive.
2016-01-22T15:53:38Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T15:54:06Z InvalidCo: is there a lispy (lispier) version of format?
2016-01-22T15:54:40Z netytan quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-22T15:54:41Z InvalidCo: I recall writing some dsls for string output but nothing of the general-domain-sorts
2016-01-22T15:57:30Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T15:58:46Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T15:59:08Z dlowe: InvalidCo: there are lispier versions, but in many cases you might as well use with-output-to-string or writing directly to a stream.
2016-01-22T15:59:34Z Xach_: InvalidCo: ytools's "out" thing, iirc
2016-01-22T15:59:44Z Xach_: from drew...something or other
2016-01-22T16:02:04Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:03:09Z InvalidCo: looks a bit extensive, and undocumented :)
2016-01-22T16:03:11Z InvalidCo: oh well
2016-01-22T16:04:11Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:04:12Z InvalidCo: Xach_: you maintain sharplispers/clx, correct?
2016-01-22T16:04:52Z InvalidCo: I should really clean up my year-old implementation of the doublebuffering protocol and submit a pull request
2016-01-22T16:05:12Z mordocai: InvalidCo: It looks like http://cs-www.cs.yale.edu/homes/dvm/papers/ytdoc.pdf is the docs btw
2016-01-22T16:05:25Z mordocai: Documents the out macro pretty extensively
2016-01-22T16:05:27Z InvalidCo: afaik, there's really no way to doublebuffer with clx as of current
2016-01-22T16:05:48Z InvalidCo: which seems to hurt stumpwm's usability quite a bit
2016-01-22T16:05:59Z Xach_: InvalidCo: i apply patches, sometimes, but it's a stretch to call that "maintaining"
2016-01-22T16:06:01Z InvalidCo: mordocai: cools, thanks!
2016-01-22T16:06:14Z Xach_: drew mcdermott!
2016-01-22T16:07:01Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:07:53Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T16:08:00Z easye joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:08:19Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:10:26Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:10:27Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-22T16:10:27Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:11:57Z InvalidCo: hrm
2016-01-22T16:12:07Z InvalidCo: there is/was already backbuffer support, but it was reverted?
2016-01-22T16:13:39Z InvalidCo: ah, found the explanation in github
2016-01-22T16:17:47Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:18:12Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-22T16:19:32Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:20:26Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:20:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:22:25Z Denommus quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-22T16:23:20Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:25:11Z br0kenman quit (Quit: q)
2016-01-22T16:26:06Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-22T16:26:06Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:26:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:29:18Z Rptx` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:31:12Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:31:50Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:33:52Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:34:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:36:59Z Prion_: Hie! I have a question: For writing tail-recursion function, should I use the optionnal flag, a helping function or LABELS? Thanks!
2016-01-22T16:37:33Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T16:37:44Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T16:38:23Z jasom: gaya-: I occasionally use (defpackage "PACK") instead of keywords or uninterned symbols, but I'm fairly unique in that.
2016-01-22T16:40:19Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-22T16:40:30Z IAmRasputin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:41:07Z gaya-: jasom: i see, that's what sbcl itself mostly uses, right? i've read somewhere that the disadvantage of that is that on different OSs strings can be written differently or smt... i personally just don't like strings in lisp code that much :D but do you also use strings in (:use ...) or (:export ...)?
2016-01-22T16:42:09Z jasom: gaya-: I do use that; if you restrict yourself to base-char then the mapping between :foo and "FOO" is well defined, though it does depend on some special variables
2016-01-22T16:42:53Z jasom: gaya-: however, it is true that different locales will have different mappings between lower and upper cased characters (the turkish I being the most famous)
2016-01-22T16:43:01Z Guest85082 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:43:15Z gaya-: i see
2016-01-22T16:44:20Z moore33: There's also the issue of readtable-case defaults, and Allegro's "modern Lisp" mode...
2016-01-22T16:45:24Z jasom: moore33: modern lisp mode is a non-issue, since it inverts the case, right? so :foo will designate the same string as "FOO"
2016-01-22T16:45:31Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:45:34Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-22T16:45:38Z salv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T16:46:14Z moore33: jasom: Hmm, I don't think so.
2016-01-22T16:47:16Z papachan quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-22T16:47:26Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T16:47:50Z moore33: http://franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/case.htm
2016-01-22T16:48:07Z strcmp1 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:48:21Z moore33: jasom: It's basically :preserve, but the CL symbols are all stored as lower case.
2016-01-22T16:50:37Z IAmRasputin: Are packages like sb-posix documented anywhere?  The only symbol descrioptions I can find are a few in the SBCL manual.
2016-01-22T16:52:29Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:52:59Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-22T16:54:05Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:54:54Z voidlily quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T16:55:53Z ralt: IAmRasputin: I mostly look at the source in github. The docstrings are well documented.
2016-01-22T16:56:09Z ralt: i.e. https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/tree/master/contrib/sb-posix
2016-01-22T16:56:49Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-22T16:57:13Z IAmRasputin: ralt: Damn, I was looking in src, didn't even think about contrib.  Thanks!
2016-01-22T16:58:21Z ralt: IAmRasputin: but really, it usually follows the interface of the C method
2016-01-22T16:58:40Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-22T16:59:21Z IAmRasputin: ralt: I figured as much.  It was more of a general question about documentation, sb-posix seemed like a relevant example.
2016-01-22T16:59:33Z ralt: ah, fair enough
2016-01-22T17:01:22Z quasus joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:01:33Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-22T17:02:03Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:02:13Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-22T17:02:19Z quasus quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-22T17:02:25Z baboon` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T17:02:49Z splittist: evening beach. What papers have you planned for els?
2016-01-22T17:02:52Z quasus joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:02:56Z beach: Prion_: You should not attempt to write tail recursive functions in Common Lisp.
2016-01-22T17:03:15Z Prion_: beach: Well... That's pretty direct
2016-01-22T17:03:17Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T17:03:24Z beach: splittist: At the moment, only a paper about Cluffer.
2016-01-22T17:03:31Z Prion_: beach: But I really like recursive style...
2016-01-22T17:03:45Z beach: Prion_: Common Lisp does not guarantee tail merging, so you may run out of stack.
2016-01-22T17:03:59Z voidlily joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:04:13Z Prion_: beach: Is that garantee in Scheme?
2016-01-22T17:04:30Z jasom: IAmRasputin: I mainly do sb-posix: M-tab M-. to discover what things in sb-posix do
2016-01-22T17:04:38Z beach: Prion_: You had better ask in a channel about Scheme.  This channel is dedicated to Common Lisp.
2016-01-22T17:04:51Z Prion_: beach: I'm sorry
2016-01-22T17:05:22Z jasom: though discussing differences between lisp and scheme is acceptible, so one could say "Unlike in scheme, Common Lisp does not guaranatee tail merging"
2016-01-22T17:05:44Z beach: Prion_: Also, unless the function is "naturally" tail recursive, turning something else into tail recursive style makes it very hard to read.
2016-01-22T17:06:02Z jasom: I find it rare that tail-recursive functions are substantially more clear than looping functions, though the same is not true for non-tail recursive functions
2016-01-22T17:06:21Z jasom: e.g. the naive fibonacci is by far the most legible implementation, despite being inefficient
2016-01-22T17:06:33Z beach: Yes, I agree.
2016-01-22T17:06:38Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T17:06:59Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:07:07Z jasom: and I won't lie, for naturally tail-recursive functions I will write them that way with a (declare (optimize (speed 3)) and not worry about it
2016-01-22T17:07:10Z beach: ... unless the function is "naturally" tail recursive, like I said.
2016-01-22T17:07:14Z ski joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:07:18Z puchacz: hi, how does #+feature-must-exist work please? and how can I get them anded, ored, negated etc.?
2016-01-22T17:07:24Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:07:30Z jasom: clhs *features*
2016-01-22T17:07:30Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_featur.htm
2016-01-22T17:07:40Z puchacz: thx jasom and specbot :-)
2016-01-22T17:07:42Z jasom: clhs #+
2016-01-22T17:07:42Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhq.htm
2016-01-22T17:08:21Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:08:35Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T17:09:01Z beach: Prion_: It is hard to attempt to have a personal opinion that is different from what the accepted style is for most people, and then ask exactly those people for advice.
2016-01-22T17:10:00Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:11:11Z Prion_: beach: Yeah, I understand
2016-01-22T17:12:19Z Prion_: I'm a total noob, still learning how work the language.. So don't really take in consideration what I'm saying
2016-01-22T17:13:18Z Prion_: Now I'm finding recursion really cool, and want to apply it every where, but I'm sure that where I'll code in non toy software, it's gonna be a pain
2016-01-22T17:14:03Z Prion_: If people prefer a way of code, there is always a reason, I don't dismiss that
2016-01-22T17:14:11Z Prion_: for coding*
2016-01-22T17:14:32Z beach: Prion_: There are problems that are most easily solved recursively.  For example, traversing a tree, or problems such as the towers of Hanoi.  But whenever you have a "linear" problem, it is easier to use iteration.
2016-01-22T17:14:50Z Prion_: beach: o I take notes
2016-01-22T17:14:52Z mtl__: well, if you're planning to do open source stuff, you're gonna have to swallow other people's preferences sooner or later
2016-01-22T17:14:52Z Vityok quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T17:15:02Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:15:02Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T17:15:27Z Prion_: mtl__: ok :)
2016-01-22T17:15:27Z mtl__: and in this case, there are very legitimate reasons behind them
2016-01-22T17:15:29Z splittist: The more you practice something, the more fluent you are in it. The danger is that the future you, who hasn't been practising recently, might not be so fluent. (I'm thinking of some of my old DO and DO* loops - crystal clear at the time, black magic now...)
2016-01-22T17:15:46Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:16:06Z beach: Prion_: Actually, there might not be a particular reason, other than historical.  But even so, it is important to follow existing practice.
2016-01-22T17:16:23Z Prion_: beach: ofc. I'm a student here. I've nothing to say.
2016-01-22T17:16:59Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T17:17:13Z mtl__: splittist: definitely. I myself kind of fell out of programming for almost 2 years(dude to personal shit)
2016-01-22T17:18:45Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T17:19:41Z beach: moore33: I don't agree that the only reason to use uninterned symbols is to save space in some package.  I think it also has to do with providing the minimum amount of information required.
2016-01-22T17:20:34Z mtl__: then I got back into it with programming microcontrollers, and I found myself googling basic C idioms
2016-01-22T17:21:06Z moore33: beach: yeah
2016-01-22T17:21:16Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:21:30Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:21:38Z erased quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T17:23:49Z splittist: mtl__: cool. The microcontrollers thing. Not the idioms thing (:
2016-01-22T17:24:11Z beach: moore33: Latest version of the Cluffer documentation: http://metamodular.com/cluffer-documentation.pdf
2016-01-22T17:24:19Z beach: Should be fairly complete now.
2016-01-22T17:24:25Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:24:44Z beach: splittist: Why did you ask about ELS papers?
2016-01-22T17:24:46Z mtl__: splittist: yeah, fun stuff
2016-01-22T17:25:15Z mtl__: arduino is kind of a mess though
2016-01-22T17:25:16Z splittist: beach: just wondering.
2016-01-22T17:25:24Z mtl__: had better success with raw C
2016-01-22T17:25:39Z splittist: I'
2016-01-22T17:26:49Z splittist: m going to have to build my own layer over cluffer. (No surprise.) Vi cursors are /on/ an item, not between them. And vi lines and cols are 1-based.
2016-01-22T17:27:15Z splittist: Perhaps I can dual cursors, one item apart...
2016-01-22T17:27:22Z splittist: s/can/can have/
2016-01-22T17:27:26Z beach: splittist: Yes, that's a excellent example of why an additional layer might be needed.
2016-01-22T17:28:36Z beach: splittist: I am contemplating whether to include the Emacs-compatible layer from Second Climacs into Cluffer.  If so, it might be a good idea to design a similar layer for VI and include it too.
2016-01-22T17:29:27Z beach: splittist: Or write your own line implementation.
2016-01-22T17:29:46Z splittist: beach: and the notepad++ layer, the eclipse layer and the SublimeText layer?
2016-01-22T17:30:10Z splittist: beach: well, it's all exploratory for now...
2016-01-22T17:30:35Z beach: Sure.  No rush.  Just thinking about future improvements.
2016-01-22T17:33:03Z helio quit
2016-01-22T17:42:26Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:46:31Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:48:21Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:49:40Z netytan quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-22T17:54:48Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-22T17:55:26Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-22T17:57:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:04:04Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:09:31Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:12:47Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T18:13:51Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:13:58Z puchacz: more general question - locks. if the specs says that all memory operations finish before acquiring the lock and all memory operations after the lock will start after the lock - is it a guarantee for the whole program, all threads?
2016-01-22T18:14:18Z puchacz: if any thread acquires or releases a lock, does it mean that the whole world of all threads obey this guarantee?
2016-01-22T18:14:42Z puchacz: I read this in lispworks documentation, but I think it is a generally expected property of locks.
2016-01-22T18:14:56Z puchacz: I vaguelly remember Java having the same guarantee
2016-01-22T18:15:50Z puchacz: on the other hand, if it was true for "locks" in general, sbcl wouldn't need memory barriers....
2016-01-22T18:16:31Z puchacz: fyi, the guarantee for lispworks is stated here: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw70/LW/html/lw-136.htm
2016-01-22T18:16:56Z puchacz: "However, all of the Low level atomic operations and locking operations (see Locks) do ensure....."
2016-01-22T18:28:42Z arcane-methods joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:29:33Z arcane-methods quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-22T18:30:47Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:34:15Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:35:09Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T18:36:32Z shka: hi
2016-01-22T18:36:45Z shka: i have small lookuptable for just 32 elements
2016-01-22T18:36:59Z shka: i'm using 32 bit integer as a mask
2016-01-22T18:37:13Z shka: how can use the same class with 8 bit mask?
2016-01-22T18:39:10Z phoe_krk: shka: make a simple function to convert 8bit mask into 24 0s + the original?
2016-01-22T18:39:29Z shka: phoe_krk: i need to store this value
2016-01-22T18:39:42Z shka: and i care about keeping it compact
2016-01-22T18:39:51Z shka: so i want to use smaller type
2016-01-22T18:40:00Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-22T18:40:19Z phoe_krk: store the 8bits
2016-01-22T18:40:29Z phoe_krk: and dynamically cast it into a 32bit when accessing it
2016-01-22T18:40:33Z arcane-methods joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:40:41Z phoe_krk: or rewrite the lookuptable mask function. either or.
2016-01-22T18:40:49Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:41:08Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T18:41:35Z White_Flame: puchacz: the guarantee should be for all threads
2016-01-22T18:42:02Z shka: phoe_krk: i need class that can store both 8 bit value and 32 bit
2016-01-22T18:42:10Z shka: or just say fuck it and use bit vector
2016-01-22T18:42:19Z White_Flame: and I would expect that Lispworks uses memory barriers as well for that. Do the disassemblies say otherwise?
2016-01-22T18:42:26Z Bike: that doesn't make sense. if you're talking about physical layout, obviously it can only be one or the other.
2016-01-22T18:42:44Z Bike: though it probably doesn't matter, since most likely an 8-bit integer would get padded up to a word, if there's only the one.
2016-01-22T18:42:47Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-22T18:43:52Z shka: Bike: it won't get aligned like in C struct?
2016-01-22T18:44:21Z Bike: I'm not sure what you mean.
2016-01-22T18:44:38Z shka: Bike: well, ok
2016-01-22T18:45:10Z White_Flame: C structs aren't guaranteed to pack 8-bit elements either, iirc
2016-01-22T18:45:14Z shka: what i really need is something like a way to generate classes with arbitrary type
2016-01-22T18:45:20Z shka: White_Flame: correct
2016-01-22T18:45:32Z Bike: also, if this is a class rather than a struct, it really doesn't matter, since it'll almost certainly use general storage.
2016-01-22T18:45:35Z shka: something like a C++ style template
2016-01-22T18:45:51Z shka: or bit-vector (not sure how the heck this even works)
2016-01-22T18:46:06Z White_Flame: I don't think you want class inheritance, I think you want multimethods across 2 different data objects
2016-01-22T18:46:46Z White_Flame: or yeah, just use bit-vector, because a set of binary flags seems to be your purpose
2016-01-22T18:46:54Z shka: White_Flame: well, problem is that I want to generate large number of instances
2016-01-22T18:47:06Z shka: yes, i was thinking about bit-vector as well
2016-01-22T18:47:10Z Bike: How a bit vector works? It's a vector of bits. Probably stored as as many words as necessary. use functions like bit-andc.
2016-01-22T18:47:19Z White_Flame: then use a single massive bit vector, and do *8 or *32 with your offset into it
2016-01-22T18:47:23Z shka: sadly, no logcount for bit vector
2016-01-22T18:47:24Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:47:39Z shka: Bike: yeah, but how it is defined in lisp implementation?
2016-01-22T18:47:59Z Bike: probably stored as a bunch of words.
2016-01-22T18:48:07Z shka: White_Flame: what a splendid idea!
2016-01-22T18:48:53Z shka: Bike: yeah, i know that, but i ment: is it just inheritance?
2016-01-22T18:49:01Z Bike: ...what?
2016-01-22T18:49:06Z Bike: Inheritance of what?
2016-01-22T18:49:12Z White_Flame: you have inheritance of functionality, not inheritance of data structure
2016-01-22T18:49:20Z White_Flame: ie, multimethods, not class inheritance
2016-01-22T18:49:34Z shka: White_Flame: yes, anyway, this is just common interface
2016-01-22T18:49:49Z shka: and dynamic dispatch
2016-01-22T18:50:23Z shka: C++ explicit vector specialization wrecked my brain
2016-01-22T18:50:55Z shka: and lisp just does not work staticly
2016-01-22T18:50:58Z White_Flame: array is already a "templatized" type in the C++ sense.  Any type with parameters is
2016-01-22T18:51:58Z shka: right, i was just wondering if i can do clos class that would act like that
2016-01-22T18:52:05Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T18:52:12Z shka: so i would be able to do something like
2016-01-22T18:52:31Z shka: (make-lookup-table :mask-length 32)
2016-01-22T18:52:35Z shka: or something like that
2016-01-22T18:52:44Z shka: probabbly yes
2016-01-22T18:52:58Z shka: but i really like idea of large bit-vector
2016-01-22T18:53:03Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-22T18:53:29Z shka: it may be hard to get this thing right, though
2016-01-22T18:54:07Z ACE_Recliner quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T18:54:11Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T18:55:48Z shka: especially since i would want to make some sort of memory pool anyway
2016-01-22T18:56:47Z shka: well, there is another question
2016-01-22T18:57:20Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-22T18:57:46Z shka: how i can efficently perform logcount-like operation on bit-vector?
2016-01-22T18:58:35Z shka: (disassemble #'logcount) shows that sbcl is using popcnt
2016-01-22T18:58:44Z shka: this is efficient
2016-01-22T18:59:08Z shka: i don't know how i can do the same with bit-vector
2016-01-22T18:59:22Z shka: well, i can copy and use logcount i guess…
2016-01-22T19:01:04Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:02:22Z White_Flame: Is there a reason you're not doing a standard array of unsigned-byte 8|32?
2016-01-22T19:02:28Z White_Flame: that would still enable popcnt
2016-01-22T19:02:41Z White_Flame: and should pack well
2016-01-22T19:03:54Z shka: i'm still trying to figure things out
2016-01-22T19:04:09Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T19:04:24Z shka: but i really don't need to store huge lookuptable
2016-01-22T19:04:34Z shka: i just need 32 elements
2016-01-22T19:04:36Z White_Flame: then is optimization a bit premature now, especially since this structure can sit behind a stable API while its backing store is changed later?
2016-01-22T19:04:55Z shka: yes, you are right
2016-01-22T19:05:18Z puchacz: White_Flame, Bike et al. I am back, reading :)
2016-01-22T19:05:41Z shka: especially since i'm delegating whole array allocation to separate object anyway
2016-01-22T19:05:58Z shka: for instance to allow memory pool in the future
2016-01-22T19:06:24Z shka: this should allow me to deal with any other issue anyway
2016-01-22T19:06:25Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:06:35Z shka: White_Flame: thanks for tips
2016-01-22T19:06:46Z White_Flame: np
2016-01-22T19:06:47Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T19:07:10Z puchacz: White_Flame: so you are suspecting that if a thread acquires or releases a lock, it is a "checkpoint" for all threads, aren't you?
2016-01-22T19:10:13Z White_Flame: yes
2016-01-22T19:10:27Z White_Flame: or else locks wouldn't be reliable to synchronize on
2016-01-22T19:10:43Z puchacz: so - given that sbcl has locks as well, what are barriers for?
2016-01-22T19:11:01Z White_Flame: Lispworks as barriers as well, for when you're not using locks
2016-01-22T19:11:34Z White_Flame: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw70/LW/html/lw-146.htm#66402
2016-01-22T19:11:50Z puchacz: are barriers weaker than locks? ie barrier guarantees memory after and before, and lock is like a barrier + exclusive access?
2016-01-22T19:12:07Z White_Flame: right
2016-01-22T19:12:17Z puchacz: got ya
2016-01-22T19:12:36Z White_Flame: you can build your own lock-free mechanisms with barriers
2016-01-22T19:12:44Z puchacz: I don't need sbcl barrier then either, if I use locks
2016-01-22T19:12:56Z puchacz: do I?
2016-01-22T19:13:25Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-22T19:14:09Z White_Flame: correct
2016-01-22T19:14:19Z puchacz: thanks. understand
2016-01-22T19:17:39Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:18:06Z netytan quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-22T19:19:23Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-22T19:19:36Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:19:54Z pjb` joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:22:09Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T19:25:53Z lisse quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-22T19:30:08Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:33:43Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T19:37:56Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T19:38:30Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:40:43Z danlentz_ quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T19:41:39Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:43:20Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:46:49Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:48:28Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T19:48:49Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:49:30Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-22T19:53:00Z arcane-methods quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T20:00:41Z warweasle quit (Quit: Daddy Duty)
2016-01-22T20:02:47Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:02:49Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:04:37Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T20:08:04Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T20:10:16Z nzambe quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-22T20:14:41Z mitzelflick quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-22T20:15:46Z rebelshrug joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:15:56Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T20:16:05Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T20:16:36Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:18:38Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:19:27Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-22T20:19:35Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T20:21:55Z lisse quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T20:26:03Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:28:05Z shka: wow, ccl has lock free hashtables
2016-01-22T20:28:07Z shka: neat!
2016-01-22T20:29:37Z ggole quit
2016-01-22T20:32:37Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:32:50Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:35:18Z tristero quit (Quit: tristero)
2016-01-22T20:36:50Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:38:33Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:38:57Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T20:39:27Z jchmrt quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-22T20:39:42Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:40:51Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T20:41:13Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-22T20:43:09Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T20:44:07Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:45:18Z jchmrt joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:46:32Z AwchinBruh quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T20:47:08Z tristero joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:48:46Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-22T20:49:24Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-22T20:53:43Z jasom: I'm loading a system that somewhere in the dependencies decides it needs cl+ssl; how do I figure out a path in the dependency tree from my system to cl+ssl?
2016-01-22T20:57:00Z synchromesh: I've tended to say something like find ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software -name "*.asd" | xargs grep -i cl+ssl, but that's just me...
2016-01-22T21:00:16Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T21:00:58Z jasom: yeah, well I tracked it down by loading each dependency manually
2016-01-22T21:01:26Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:02:45Z je4i: (where-is :cl+ssl)
2016-01-22T21:02:45Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T21:03:28Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:05:47Z je4i: no, thats mine, it is (ql:where-is-system :cl+ssl)
2016-01-22T21:06:33Z flip214: the question is not about filesystem but dependency paths.
2016-01-22T21:08:00Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:09:52Z porky11 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T21:09:56Z synchromesh: flip214: Yes, I understood the question.
2016-01-22T21:10:18Z je4i: this was for me
2016-01-22T21:10:54Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:13:49Z fiveop joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:17:41Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:17:57Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-22T21:18:23Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-22T21:18:38Z m_zr0_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T21:21:24Z erased quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-22T21:23:16Z fiveop quit
2016-01-22T21:29:45Z rebelshrug quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T21:30:00Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:32:02Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T21:33:08Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T21:37:32Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:38:00Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-22T21:38:30Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2016-01-22T21:38:36Z jasom: hah, now that I've eliminated clack-v1-compat no more cl+ssl loading
2016-01-22T21:39:29Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:40:16Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T21:40:38Z mordocai: yay!
2016-01-22T21:40:52Z mordocai: Was cl+ssl the source of your heap exhaustion issues?
2016-01-22T21:41:10Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:52:47Z rebelshrug joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:54:48Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2016-01-22T21:58:07Z nyef joined #lisp
2016-01-22T22:01:40Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T22:04:05Z jasom: no, just a source of annoyance
2016-01-22T22:04:18Z jasom: and it was stack exhaustion
2016-01-22T22:04:36Z jasom: and the source of that was with-foreign-object (which is apparently allowed to allocate on the stack, even if you pass huge values to it)
2016-01-22T22:06:28Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-22T22:07:28Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-22T22:10:35Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T22:20:23Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T22:20:28Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T22:23:14Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-22T22:23:58Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-22T22:27:51Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-22T22:29:05Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-22T22:29:39Z Bike joined #lisp
2016-01-22T22:31:44Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T22:31:45Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T22:36:15Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T22:38:33Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T22:41:56Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T22:42:54Z IAmRasputin: So I'm getting a weird error when I try to quickload cl-charms in quicklisp
2016-01-22T22:42:57Z IAmRasputin: http://pastebin.com/3jbQb6pK
2016-01-22T22:43:30Z IAmRasputin: It thinks a file named "ncurses.h" is missing, but I swear I've installed ncurses on my machine before
2016-01-22T22:43:36Z paroneayea joined #lisp
2016-01-22T22:45:35Z IAmRasputin: Ugh, installing the libncurses-dev package fixed it, nvm
2016-01-22T22:46:46Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T22:48:41Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-22T22:49:40Z IAmRasputin: A better question is, why would cl-charms rely on header files already on my machine?
2016-01-22T22:50:02Z paroneayea left #lisp
2016-01-22T22:50:50Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-22T22:52:05Z new2this quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-22T22:52:40Z sebboh: IAmRasputin: I think because it wants to talk to your machine.  Wait, no, it's just supposed to generate the data that your local terminal (or a remote one) would render.
2016-01-22T22:52:49Z sebboh: Right?
2016-01-22T23:00:46Z Xach_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T23:01:16Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:02:57Z joneshf-laptop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T23:04:26Z |3b|: IAmRasputin: unfortunately C API/ABIs aren't always stable enough to just translate them completely into lisp, so some FFI-based libraries actually compile some C code then use that to generate the actual values needed to talk to the C API
2016-01-22T23:04:36Z |3b|: things like structure layout, values of constants, etc
2016-01-22T23:04:43Z |3b|: to do that, it needs the .h files
2016-01-22T23:08:50Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T23:12:02Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T23:12:59Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:13:15Z attila_lendvai: 3b, I was wondering that if they change a #define or a struct layout without a lib major version increase, then binaries that are compiled from C code will also break, right? but that doesn't seem to be prevalent in the linux world...
2016-01-22T23:13:24Z attila_lendvai: maybe because they recompile everything often?
2016-01-22T23:15:05Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-22T23:16:46Z |3b|: well, the lisp lib isn't /only/ for linux
2016-01-22T23:16:53Z |3b|: it might differ between OS for example
2016-01-22T23:17:23Z |3b|: but yeah, linux binaries don't always work on different distros or distro versions
2016-01-22T23:17:46Z |3b|: and the distro ships things compiled for specific versions, so doesn't have that problem
2016-01-22T23:19:42Z mach quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-22T23:20:23Z MBstream joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:21:53Z nyef: Doesn't that lead to "oh, so we'll just ship a version of every dynamic library that we need and either use a wrapper to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH or a magic embedding thing to dig them out of a combined executable file"?
2016-01-22T23:22:37Z |3b|: or "we only claim this works on ubuntu version X"
2016-01-22T23:23:29Z mach joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:27:27Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-22T23:28:08Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-22T23:30:28Z Kundry_W` joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:30:29Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:30:40Z Kundry_W` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T23:30:40Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T23:35:11Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:36:58Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:40:02Z wooden__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-22T23:40:12Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:42:11Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-22T23:43:47Z clop2 joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:45:50Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:52:32Z porky11 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-22T23:53:57Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-22T23:57:03Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:59:21Z lisse_ joined #lisp
2016-01-22T23:59:22Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T00:12:52Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-23T00:13:54Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:15:03Z mrottenkolber: Hi, how do I “pretty print” an error, e.g. when I evaluate `(error "foo")' the debugger displays “foo”. How do I get that string from the condition object?
2016-01-23T00:17:29Z White_Flame: (format nil "~a" err-obj) works for me
2016-01-23T00:18:33Z White_Flame: you don't want to just extract the string itself, since it's often treated as a format string with additional parameters
2016-01-23T00:18:44Z mrottenkolber: Ah thanks-
2016-01-23T00:18:46Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T00:20:01Z phadthai quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T00:21:12Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-23T00:22:39Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-23T00:23:52Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T00:24:01Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T00:24:30Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:25:23Z jasom: nyef: indeed it does if you want to distribute portable binaries on linux; if you want to be very afraid, read the steam shell scripts
2016-01-23T00:26:01Z jasom: nyef: since nearly all packages that are in the package management system are compiled by distro maintainers, they don't have this problem
2016-01-23T00:26:15Z nyef: If I want to be afraid, be very afraid, I'd write a gameboy emulator so that I can play Metroid II.
2016-01-23T00:26:20Z rebelshrug quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-23T00:26:39Z jasom could never really get into the metroidvania genre
2016-01-23T00:26:45Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-23T00:26:52Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:27:02Z Administrator is now known as Guest80896
2016-01-23T00:27:08Z nyef: ... And now I kindof want to play Metroid II. I wonder if I still have my old copy somewhere?
2016-01-23T00:27:51Z Bike: steam provides all the binaries and i still have linking problems, which is my cue to avoid having to deal with suck things
2016-01-23T00:27:56Z Bike: such*
2016-01-23T00:28:47Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-23T00:32:46Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:32:50Z cagmz joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:32:53Z dstatyvka left #lisp
2016-01-23T00:36:48Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-23T00:37:15Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T00:37:55Z dstatyvka joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:38:03Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:39:14Z lisse_ quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-23T00:41:10Z resttime: Okay, I'm very curious right now so this is going to be a bit long.
2016-01-23T00:41:21Z resttime: I've been reading on the subject regarding how dynamic binding (parameters) work in Racket (Scheme) while comparing to how Common Lisp handles the concept, and am thinking that Racket is being really "weird" about it.
2016-01-23T00:41:26Z resttime: Like after making the parameter, you have to call it as a function if you want the value, and you need to use another operator to even make full use of it.
2016-01-23T00:41:36Z resttime: Here's the first example from the Racket Guide page on parameterize (LET in place of PARAMETERIZE will not produce the same behaviour):
2016-01-23T00:41:40Z resttime: (parameterize ([error-print-width 5]) (car (expt 10 1024)))
2016-01-23T00:41:47Z resttime: Conversely, Common Lisp doesn't require calling the parameter as a function to get the value and you don't need another special operator for the "equivalent" code in Common Lisp:
2016-01-23T00:41:50Z resttime: (let ((*error-print-width* 5)) (car (expt 10 1024)))
2016-01-23T00:41:56Z resttime: Did I reach the wrong conclusion about Racket being "icky"? (end)
2016-01-23T00:42:05Z phadthai joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:42:16Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:42:25Z rpg quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-23T00:42:49Z Bike: the racket code is quite similar to (progv '(*error-print-width*) '(5) (car (expt 10 1024))), though
2016-01-23T00:43:18Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T00:43:54Z helio quit
2016-01-23T00:44:03Z Bike: as for calling it as a function, that's not a huge difference... you can think of a name being declared special as using a symbol-macrolet to make *foo* expand to (symbol-value '*foo*)
2016-01-23T00:44:47Z |3b| thinks it would have been better to have a separate namespace+operator for specials like there is for functions anyway :p
2016-01-23T00:47:40Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T00:50:03Z resttime: Bike: Couldn't the PROGV code just be defined with a simple DEFPARAMETER?  (Racket would have (define error-print-width (make-parameter x)) I think)
2016-01-23T00:50:23Z White_Flame: defparameter won't be a scoped binding.  That'll simply blow away the old
2016-01-23T00:50:43Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:51:13Z resttime: White_Flame: I mean on the initial binding, outside.
2016-01-23T00:51:25Z resttime: Err, the page for more context: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/parameterize.html
2016-01-23T00:52:00Z White_Flame: progv is for a local binding, not the toplevel declaration
2016-01-23T00:53:27Z resttime: Oh, then ERROR-PRINT-WIDTH, is not toplevel?
2016-01-23T00:53:52Z resttime: I was thinking like (let ((*print-base* 16) (print 10)
2016-01-23T00:53:59Z resttime: In Common Lisp that is.
2016-01-23T00:54:09Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:54:22Z White_Flame: it seems that (defvar *var* ...) (let ((*var* ...)) ...) would be equivalent to (define var (make-parameter ...)) (parameterize ([var ...]) ...)
2016-01-23T00:55:32Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-23T00:55:34Z Bike: special variables have two parts, the specialness and the actual binding. specialness is a lexical property done with (declare special), but you can also do it globally with defvar/parameter. specialness does the macroexpansion thing i mentioned. binding is just the actual dynamic binding part, and it's what let does.
2016-01-23T00:55:47Z White_Flame: in CL, whether or not a LET binding binds a lexical or special variable is a compile-time decision; in scheme it seems that they are explicitly decided by the user
2016-01-23T00:56:20Z Bike: you can do dynamic bindings without touching specialness at all, with progv.
2016-01-23T00:56:47Z White_Flame: yeah
2016-01-23T00:58:13Z Bike: Okay, so it looks what racket does is have a separate object, the "parameter" itself, that's dealt with specially. In (define var (make-parameter ...)) you're just defining a normal variable, and when you use parametrize, that first "error-print-width" is actually just evaluated to get the parameter object.
2016-01-23T00:58:33Z Bike: in CL the symbols themselves are analogous to the parameter object, with symbol-value and all.
2016-01-23T01:02:37Z resttime: Hmmm, thanks everyone.  I think that is the source of the "icky" feeling, because it felt to me that Common Lisp had things "simpler".
2016-01-23T01:02:56Z White_Flame: the scheme way of handling this is probably a lot easier for implementers
2016-01-23T01:03:31Z Bike: racket's looks like it's much more confusing for the sake of continuations, if nothing else
2016-01-23T01:04:02Z White_Flame: yeah, I've always thought that continuations were too low-level of a language feature to make sense
2016-01-23T01:04:39Z White_Flame: it's like the prolog cut operation.  Everybody builds if/then/else out of cut.  In Scheme, people build much more common simple operations out of continuations
2016-01-23T01:05:09Z White_Flame: sometimes such operations are below the level of intent
2016-01-23T01:06:09Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:11:34Z badkins_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:12:54Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:13:26Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T01:19:08Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:20:14Z UtkarshRay quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-23T01:21:08Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:22:35Z UtkarshRay quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-23T01:23:03Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:23:08Z yeticry_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:24:08Z UtkarshRay quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-23T01:24:47Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:26:12Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T01:26:16Z cagmz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T01:26:23Z UtkarshRay quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-23T01:27:40Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T01:28:41Z vlnx quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T01:31:54Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-23T01:32:15Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T01:33:46Z vlnx joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:36:57Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T01:38:48Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:40:44Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T01:41:38Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T01:43:40Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:43:46Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T01:44:30Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:47:15Z fotdp quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-23T01:47:45Z IAmRasputin: |3b|: Ahh, that makes sense (the cl-charms/ncurses.h question from earlier).
2016-01-23T01:55:13Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-23T01:58:29Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-23T01:58:52Z warweasle quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1)
2016-01-23T02:00:25Z holycow2 quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-23T02:06:41Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T02:24:26Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T02:28:25Z netytan quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-23T02:30:53Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:33:06Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:33:57Z danlentz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:34:01Z ipmonger quit (Quit: ipmonger)
2016-01-23T02:35:41Z ipmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:37:39Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:39:03Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:39:36Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:40:06Z peppermachete quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T02:40:33Z fotdp joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:41:01Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-23T02:41:40Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T02:41:44Z peppermachete joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:44:35Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-23T02:49:34Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:49:49Z lisse quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-23T02:50:44Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-23T02:53:11Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-23T03:00:16Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T03:01:35Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-23T03:02:20Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T03:04:56Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-23T03:06:23Z mea-culpa joined #lisp
2016-01-23T03:08:13Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T03:08:42Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-23T03:14:06Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-23T03:15:49Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-23T03:18:47Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-23T03:21:24Z IAmRasputin quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-23T03:23:20Z yrdz` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T03:24:08Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-23T03:24:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T03:38:13Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2016-01-23T03:40:20Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T03:44:55Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T03:48:17Z arpunk quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-23T04:01:06Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T04:02:06Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T04:03:49Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-23T04:09:15Z arpunk joined #lisp
2016-01-23T04:09:48Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T04:15:29Z treaki_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T04:18:55Z treaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T04:28:35Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-23T04:40:20Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T04:41:05Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T04:44:15Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T04:44:45Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T04:46:08Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T04:48:23Z emaczen` joined #lisp
2016-01-23T04:49:52Z emaczen` left #lisp
2016-01-23T04:54:11Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-23T04:55:37Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-23T04:55:43Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-23T04:59:19Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-23T05:00:53Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T05:01:26Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T05:03:42Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-23T05:06:46Z clog quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T05:14:36Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T05:21:56Z happy-dude quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T05:22:38Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T05:24:26Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-23T05:24:43Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-23T05:31:27Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-23T05:34:44Z je4i: Good morning beach!
2016-01-23T05:40:36Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-23T05:41:50Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T05:45:59Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-23T05:46:26Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T05:51:44Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T05:55:18Z vmonteco_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T05:55:23Z vmonteco_: Hello!
2016-01-23T05:56:24Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-23T05:57:58Z beach: Hello vmonteco_.
2016-01-23T05:58:09Z vmonteco_: I'm new with LISP, and I tried to do a function that turns a list of string into a list of integers. But for some reason it seems to always return nil. What could the reason be? http://dpaste.com/0B42MYZ I made two versions and both have the same problem.
2016-01-23T05:59:17Z Bike: you wrote "(list)", which calls the function list with no arguments, which returns nil. You probably wanted to write "list", which returns the value of the local variable called "list".
2016-01-23T06:00:14Z beach: vmonteco_: But you probably want to do (mapcar #'parse-integer list) instead.
2016-01-23T06:02:56Z vmonteco_: Bike: Oh! That was it, I would not have found this alone, thank you very much :)
2016-01-23T06:03:01Z beach: vmonteco_: The first version assumes that the list has at least one element in it.  That is usually not very good style.  You typically want to make the empty list the end of the recursion.
2016-01-23T06:03:28Z Bike: good point, good point
2016-01-23T06:03:34Z vmonteco_: beach: I didn't know this function, indeed that's interesting :) I tried with apply though.
2016-01-23T06:04:08Z beach: vmonteco_: The second version sets a local variable each time so your list is not modified.
2016-01-23T06:04:08Z vmonteco_: beach: I'll try a new version then!
2016-01-23T06:04:22Z beach: So neither version is acceptable.
2016-01-23T06:04:56Z beach: Also, the first version modifies the list.  It is better style to create a new list, and leave the initial one alone, unless you have very specific reasons to modify.
2016-01-23T06:05:31Z Bike: i think it's more interesting than the usual code cos of that, heh.
2016-01-23T06:06:46Z beach: This is certainly unusual newbie code if that is what you mean, yes.
2016-01-23T06:09:29Z beach: vmonteco_: The standard recursive version would be: (defun make-int-list (list) (if (null list) '() (cons (parse-integer (first list)) (make-int-list (rest list)))))
2016-01-23T06:11:23Z badkins_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T06:12:32Z je4i: and there is loop: (loop for element in list collect (parse-integer element))
2016-01-23T06:17:26Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-23T06:19:07Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T06:21:16Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-23T06:26:00Z vmonteco_: beach:  Bike : I tried this, it works but it still modifies the list passed as a parameter though. http://dpaste.com/3PJ0FHH
2016-01-23T06:26:27Z Bike: well, that's because you did something completely different from what beach said
2016-01-23T06:29:32Z vmonteco_: Bike: I wanted to try by myself before looking at the answer :X my bad. I have to create new cons cells so?
2016-01-23T06:29:35Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T06:29:43Z Bike: yeah.
2016-01-23T06:32:25Z beach: vmonteco_: There is no reason to use LST rather than LIST.
2016-01-23T06:32:50Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-23T06:33:28Z beach: vmonteco_: And (IF <condition> (PROGN ... ...)) is better written (WHEN <condition> ... ...)
2016-01-23T06:33:59Z vmonteco_: beach: Bike : My new try, I tried to avoid dumb copy http://dpaste.com/0XZMXGR
2016-01-23T06:34:21Z vmonteco_: These are equivalent?
2016-01-23T06:34:33Z vmonteco_: (if/when)
2016-01-23T06:34:41Z beach: vmonteco_: Why do you use SETF here?  There is no need to modify the list.
2016-01-23T06:35:38Z beach: vmonteco_: WHEN can be thought of as an IF without any "else" branch.
2016-01-23T06:37:58Z beach: vmonteco_: You need to learn about standard recursive techniques using a functional style.  You are unlikely to come up with those yourself without looking at some examples.
2016-01-23T06:38:02Z vmonteco_: http://dpaste.com/24KVTMN
2016-01-23T06:38:26Z H4ns: beach: you're proven wrong now :)
2016-01-23T06:38:40Z beach: Looks that way.
2016-01-23T06:38:48Z vmonteco_: H4ns: That wasn't the first try at all :S
2016-01-23T06:38:53Z H4ns: vmonteco_: next up: learn how to use an editor that indents properly
2016-01-23T06:39:05Z H4ns: vmonteco_: no, but you've figured it out, well done.
2016-01-23T06:39:53Z vmonteco_: beach: I've made some Scheme years ago, but only on paper, and there wasn't all these keywords and types
2016-01-23T06:40:18Z vmonteco_: Is Scheme a simplified LISP?
2016-01-23T06:40:38Z vmonteco_: H4ns: Thank you but I was helped a lot ^^'
2016-01-23T06:40:44Z H4ns: vmonteco_: you can replace "simplified" by various words, but yes.
2016-01-23T06:41:07Z H4ns: vmonteco_: you could even leave out the "simplified" and get into hot debates when claiming so
2016-01-23T06:41:23Z vmonteco_: H4ns: minimalist?
2016-01-23T06:41:39Z H4ns: why not?
2016-01-23T06:43:25Z vmonteco_: It's seems harder than C to me anyway! But I feel something pretty behing this. :)
2016-01-23T06:44:31Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-23T06:45:44Z vmonteco_: I'll keep studying this. :) Thank you all for this great help!
2016-01-23T06:52:46Z emaczen` joined #lisp
2016-01-23T06:53:37Z emaczen`: how can I use the symbol naming a class as the type in a "the" form?
2016-01-23T06:56:03Z emaczen`: Or how can I declare the return type of a form?
2016-01-23T06:58:23Z Bike: classes are types, and symbols naming classes are type specifiers. so use "the" the obvious way.
2016-01-23T06:58:40Z clog joined #lisp
2016-01-23T06:59:26Z emaczen`: Bike: I tried (the 'class-name (defun ...)) without any luck
2016-01-23T06:59:33Z Bike: don't quote. it's not evaluated.
2016-01-23T06:59:40Z emaczen`: ahhh
2016-01-23T06:59:47Z Bike: doing it with a defun is wrong, though.
2016-01-23T06:59:54Z Bike: (defun ...) actually just returns the name of a function.
2016-01-23T07:00:10Z Bike: if you want to declare the type of the function, use declaim ftype in a separate form.
2016-01-23T07:00:39Z Bike: like (declaim (ftype (function (...args...) class-name) function-name)) (defun function-name ...)
2016-01-23T07:02:19Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:03:08Z emaczen`: Bike: Thanks1
2016-01-23T07:06:13Z emaczen`: Bike: Will this function be static type checked now?
2016-01-23T07:07:12Z Bike: depending on implementation, maybe, yeah
2016-01-23T07:07:20Z emaczen`: sbcl
2016-01-23T07:07:45Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:08:04Z emaczen`: Bike: Oh, I see.
2016-01-23T07:08:13Z emaczen`: note: type assertion too complex to check:
2016-01-23T07:09:01Z Bike: It happens.
2016-01-23T07:09:03Z H4ns: emaczen`: in general, common lisp is not a statically checking languages and type declarations should be seen strictly as performance tools.
2016-01-23T07:09:20Z H4ns: "language"
2016-01-23T07:09:56Z emaczen`: H4ns: Yes
2016-01-23T07:10:25Z vmonteco_ quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-23T07:12:22Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:13:28Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:15:55Z emacsomancer quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-23T07:17:06Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T07:18:46Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:20:35Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:20:49Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-23T07:29:34Z kolko quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T07:31:43Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:33:56Z emaczen` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-23T07:36:32Z psy__ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:37:00Z psy__ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-23T07:40:12Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T07:43:34Z psy_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-23T07:45:31Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-23T07:49:05Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T07:51:28Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:51:53Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:52:10Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T07:56:20Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-23T07:58:58Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:04:33Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:08:38Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:09:48Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-23T08:11:18Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:11:52Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:13:15Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T08:13:55Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:14:46Z iskander quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-23T08:31:48Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:32:35Z Guest80896 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-23T08:32:42Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:37:50Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:41:27Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:41:38Z archonix joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:53:34Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:56:40Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T08:58:33Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-23T08:59:46Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-23T09:07:55Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-23T09:08:55Z MBstream quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T09:14:50Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T09:21:43Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-23T09:22:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T09:22:06Z Administrator is now known as Guest38230
2016-01-23T09:24:51Z Guest38230 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-23T09:33:55Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-23T09:38:38Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-23T09:41:24Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-23T09:41:47Z malbertife_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T09:44:49Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-23T09:45:35Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T09:46:15Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T10:02:28Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:02:35Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:06:42Z Wojciech_K_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:08:52Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:10:08Z Wojciech_K quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T10:10:31Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T10:10:35Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:11:11Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:11:13Z hnagamin quit (Quit: さようなら)
2016-01-23T10:11:55Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:12:07Z kushal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T10:15:32Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T10:17:38Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:17:38Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-23T10:19:49Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:31:30Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T10:35:18Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T10:36:39Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:37:34Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:37:35Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T10:38:59Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T10:48:49Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:48:54Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:51:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-23T10:56:41Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-23T11:02:04Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T11:05:35Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-23T11:06:50Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T11:07:28Z HardWall quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-23T11:08:48Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-23T11:11:46Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T11:16:10Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2016-01-23T11:16:26Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T11:16:46Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-23T11:22:39Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-23T11:22:50Z eni joined #lisp
2016-01-23T11:29:41Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-23T11:45:09Z beach: Well, I think I found the bug in the CLX backend of McCLIM; the one that makes it appear as if CapsLock was set when Control is pressed and the CapsLock key has been remapped to Control.
2016-01-23T11:45:21Z beach: Now I just have to figure out how to fix it.
2016-01-23T11:52:24Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2016-01-23T11:55:12Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T11:57:13Z pjb: minion: memo for mrottenkolber: you can use PRINC ~A (instead of PRINT1 ~S) to print the error message. Notice that only SIMPLE-ERROR has methods to get the format string and arguments using SIMPLE-CONDITION-FORMAT-CONTROL and  SIMPLE-CONDITION-FORMAT-ARGUMENTS (your own conditions could inherit from SIMPLE-ERROR or SIMPLE-CONDITION instead of ERROR or CONDITION).
2016-01-23T11:57:13Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell mrottenkolber when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-23T11:57:41Z beach: Actually, there are probably two problems with this code.  With the first problem, if the CapsLock key is remapped to be a Control key, then pressing ANY control key makes McCLIM interpret the modifiers as if CapsLock was set.
2016-01-23T11:58:54Z beach: The second problem makes CapsLock be set when the CapsLock key is pressed, even though the key has been remapped.  It is entirely possible that this second problem is due to a buggy X server, but it has to be dealt with nevertheless.
2016-01-23T12:00:04Z gargaml joined #lisp
2016-01-23T12:02:24Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-23T12:02:36Z pjb: minion: memo for resttime: you may consider scheme parameters as in a different namespace.  You write (function x) in CL, you write (parameter x) in scheme or (dynamic x) in isolisp.
2016-01-23T12:02:36Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell resttime when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-23T12:05:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T12:10:39Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-23T12:13:06Z gargaml quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T12:13:24Z gargaml joined #lisp
2016-01-23T12:24:50Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T12:26:42Z netytan quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-23T12:27:04Z cmatei quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T12:31:39Z gargaml quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2016-01-23T12:34:09Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-23T12:37:43Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-23T12:38:35Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-23T12:49:07Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-23T12:49:36Z malbertife_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T12:56:13Z splittist: Here was me thinking installing a linux environment using VirtualBox would be simple. ):
2016-01-23T12:56:58Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T13:01:14Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T13:06:02Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-23T13:06:16Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-23T13:11:45Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-23T13:12:10Z sweater is now known as Guest5283
2016-01-23T13:16:44Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-23T13:30:40Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T13:39:24Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-23T13:41:19Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-23T13:43:10Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-23T13:48:12Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T13:49:06Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T13:50:10Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-23T13:53:40Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-23T13:54:16Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-23T13:57:29Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:07:31Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:18:39Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:20:38Z Lord_of_Life quit (K-Lined)
2016-01-23T14:22:13Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T14:22:13Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T14:22:16Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T14:25:10Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:25:10Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:27:19Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:28:20Z archonix quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T14:37:38Z BIGBOOMBA joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:39:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:39:15Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-23T14:39:25Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:39:32Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T14:40:20Z BIGBOOMBA: Hey guys, I'm getting some interesting behavior when I try to run funcall on a function I have stored in an alist. I'm dispatching based on commands entered by the user, and the keys in my a-list are single-character strings.
2016-01-23T14:41:13Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:41:27Z Xach_ can't wait to hear more
2016-01-23T14:41:59Z BIGBOOMBA: If I manually run (cdr (assoc "a" *dispatch-table*)) I get a function, because my alist (stored in the variable *dispatch-table*) has the entry '("a" . fun) in it, where fun is a function I've defined.
2016-01-23T14:42:47Z BIGBOOMBA: But if I run (funcall (cdr (assoc "a" *dispatch-table*))) I get an error. SBCL thinks that the type-of the value in my alist for the key "a" is CONS.
2016-01-23T14:43:35Z ggole_: Are you sure these expressions are being evaluated in the same dynamic environment?
2016-01-23T14:43:37Z BIGBOOMBA: I made sure that I'm not trying to run funcall on the entire entry '("a" . fun), which obviously IS of type CONS. I'm trying to run it on the CDR of this CONS.
2016-01-23T14:44:11Z Xach_: BIGBOOMBA: (assoc "a" *dispatch-table*) is most likely nil.
2016-01-23T14:44:28Z BIGBOOMBA: Xach_: I will double-check. One moment.
2016-01-23T14:44:30Z Xach_: BIGBOOMBA: ASSOC uses EQL for lookup. (eql "a" "a") => most likely nil.
2016-01-23T14:44:49Z Xach_: (assoc key alist :test 'equal) might do what you want.
2016-01-23T14:45:03Z BIGBOOMBA: Xach_: Actually, I did have that bug at first. My apologies; I am now running (assoc "a" *dispatch-table* :test #'string=).
2016-01-23T14:45:32Z Xach_: BIGBOOMBA: what do you get from (assoc "a" *dispatch-table* :test #'string=)?
2016-01-23T14:45:44Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:45:47Z Xach_: i mean what does the repl show, not what do you think it is returning...
2016-01-23T14:46:27Z BIGBOOMBA: I get ("a" FUNCTION FUN), which I did note would give type CONS for the CDR, if we're thinking of (FUNCTION FUN) as a list of two symbols.
2016-01-23T14:46:44Z Xach_: BIGBOOMBA: yep, that's your trouble right there.
2016-01-23T14:46:53Z ggole_: Ah, this is not the same as ("a" . function)
2016-01-23T14:47:01Z ggole_: The cdr of that list is another list
2016-01-23T14:47:04Z Xach_: if you have '(foo . #'bar) that is a list of three elements.
2016-01-23T14:47:21Z BIGBOOMBA: Well, iff I run (cdr (assoc *dispatch-table* "a" :test #'string=)), I get the expected result: #'FUN
2016-01-23T14:47:28Z BIGBOOMBA: if*
2016-01-23T14:47:42Z mood: BIGBOOMBA: Note that #'FUN is the same as (function fun), which is a list
2016-01-23T14:47:55Z Xach_: BIGBOOMBA: that's because of how the list (FUNCTION FUN) prints
2016-01-23T14:48:07Z Xach_: BIGBOOMBA: it is still just a list, not a function object
2016-01-23T14:48:11Z Xach_: you must evaluate it to get the function
2016-01-23T14:48:37Z BIGBOOMBA: Ah, so what I should be running is (funcall (eval ...
2016-01-23T14:48:40Z Xach_: you would get more what you expect if you use '(("a" . fun) ...) instead of '(("a" . #'fun) ...)
2016-01-23T14:48:57Z Xach_: BIGBOOMBA: no. your table should have function objects or symbols naming functions, rather than lists of the form (FUNCTION <symbol>)
2016-01-23T14:49:11Z Xach_: you can get function objects by constructing your table with LIST and CONS instead of with '
2016-01-23T14:49:14Z Xach_: there are other options too
2016-01-23T14:50:12Z BIGBOOMBA: I have actually tried both ways of entering the function in the dispatch table. Right now (with the unexpected behavior) the entry in the alist is ("a" . fun).
2016-01-23T14:50:56Z BIGBOOMBA: To be precise, the dispatch table looks like you suggested: '(("a" . fun) ...)
2016-01-23T14:52:23Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-23T14:52:41Z BIGBOOMBA: The output when I run (cdr (assoc "a" *dispatch-table* :test #'string=)) is #'FUN
2016-01-23T14:53:14Z BIGBOOMBA: ...and the output of (type-of (cdr (assoc "a" *dispatch-table* :test #'string=))) is CONS
2016-01-23T14:53:29Z ggole_: BIGBOOMBA: the quote there prevents fun from being evaluated. Are you sure that's what you want?
2016-01-23T14:53:49Z mood: Then the dispatch table does NOT look like '(("a" . fun)), because ASSOC won't magically put (FUNCTION ...) around its result
2016-01-23T14:55:26Z ggole_: Note that (some versions of?) SBCL will print (function foo) as #'foo.
2016-01-23T14:56:34Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:00:04Z BIGBOOMBA: I may have had some ridiculous bug like having the alist defined as '(("a".fun) ...) or something, because I (setf) the variable *dispatch-table* to something I knew was right, and then ran (type-of) on the value for the key "a", and I got SYMBOL instead of CONS. I then (setf) *dispatch-table* back to what I was using, made sure it was right, and now it works as expected.
2016-01-23T15:01:29Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-23T15:01:56Z BIGBOOMBA: Testing that theory shows that that couldn't have been it, but I did SOMETHING wrong, because now it works, and as far as I can tell I have it the way I had it originally.
2016-01-23T15:02:06Z BIGBOOMBA: I hate when that happens.
2016-01-23T15:02:37Z BIGBOOMBA: I'm sure I had it wrong before--I must have--but I don't know what was different!
2016-01-23T15:03:46Z ggole_: Try (let ((alist '(("a" . #'foo)))) (cdr (assoc "a" alist :test #'string=)))
2016-01-23T15:03:53Z ggole_: Which may have a similar problem
2016-01-23T15:03:57Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:05:42Z BIGBOOMBA: ggole, I will run that and see if it gives me a value of type CONS. I'm 99% sure I wasn't using #' for the entry in the dispatch table when I was getting a value of type CONS, but if that test gives the expected behavior I must be losing my mind...
2016-01-23T15:06:51Z BIGBOOMBA: If anyone would like to see the actual values I was using, I've put the (25 lines of) code here: http://pastebin.com/A2YDXv6h
2016-01-23T15:07:48Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:08:36Z BIGBOOMBA: That didn't get indented properly, but I was basically just trying to make a template for the text UI that I'm going to put on my gin program.
2016-01-23T15:08:58Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:11:52Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:20:28Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T15:22:52Z omilu quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T15:23:19Z justicefries joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:23:39Z omilu joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:25:20Z fiveop joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:27:48Z helio quit
2016-01-23T15:29:39Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:31:45Z pareidolia: Is there a function to show a reader macro expansion, e.g. to see what #36rABC looks like? (I did the google dance)
2016-01-23T15:32:16Z loke: pareidolia: Just use READ
2016-01-23T15:32:28Z loke: pareidolia: It will return whatever it read it as
2016-01-23T15:34:09Z helio is now known as hel-io
2016-01-23T15:34:12Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:34:57Z hel-io is now known as helio
2016-01-23T15:35:15Z helio is now known as hel-io
2016-01-23T15:36:35Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T15:39:16Z pareidolia: loke: Read gives me just a base-10 integer back
2016-01-23T15:39:27Z pareidolia: loke: Which would make sense
2016-01-23T15:39:28Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-23T15:40:09Z pareidolia: loke: But #'read just gives back the input
2016-01-23T15:42:35Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T15:44:03Z loke: pareidolia: WHat do you mean? It does not.
2016-01-23T15:44:38Z loke: pareidolia: And yes, #36rABC does read as an integer. That's what it does.
2016-01-23T15:46:42Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:47:24Z pareidolia: loke: I just seem to have misunderstood that in all cases an expansion should be available, but shortcuts are allowed in implementation
2016-01-23T15:47:44Z loke: pareidolia: Not for reader macros.
2016-01-23T15:47:56Z loke: Those have nothing to do with normal macros
2016-01-23T15:50:22Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:53:38Z fiveop quit
2016-01-23T15:54:49Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-23T15:55:06Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-23T15:57:21Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:57:26Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-23T15:58:41Z trinitr0n quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T15:58:57Z trinitr0n joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:05:12Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:07:50Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:08:12Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:12:18Z BIGBOOMBA quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-23T16:15:25Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:17:40Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:18:08Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T16:21:21Z netytan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T16:21:45Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:23:58Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:25:44Z netytan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T16:26:09Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:27:12Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T16:27:48Z John[Lisbeth] quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-23T16:28:15Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:28:15Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T16:30:21Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:31:26Z sid_cypher quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T16:34:01Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:35:19Z araujo_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-23T16:35:44Z John[Lisbeth] joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:36:08Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:36:27Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T16:36:39Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-23T16:36:48Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-23T16:37:02Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:39:43Z erased quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-23T16:42:34Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:44:06Z araujo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:46:08Z araujo_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T16:46:44Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:48:59Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:52:13Z technik joined #lisp
2016-01-23T16:52:14Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:00:32Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:02:39Z technik quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-23T17:04:29Z technik joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:09:34Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-23T17:09:53Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-23T17:09:59Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:12:08Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T17:14:53Z salva quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-23T17:14:54Z munge joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:15:03Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:23:10Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:24:36Z araujo__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T17:25:14Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T17:25:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:28:49Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T17:28:57Z cagmz joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:30:06Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T17:30:19Z fotdp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T17:30:38Z je4i quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T17:30:53Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:32:59Z fotdp joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:33:15Z cagmz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T17:37:03Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:38:53Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:41:33Z erased quit (Quit: = "")
2016-01-23T17:46:45Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T17:50:30Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T18:00:15Z zeitue joined #lisp
2016-01-23T18:01:12Z hnagamin quit (Quit: さようなら)
2016-01-23T18:01:29Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-23T18:04:47Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T18:06:08Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-23T18:09:33Z gauss joined #lisp
2016-01-23T18:11:28Z gauss: hi. can i define a macro for a block of code only and not for the whole program?
2016-01-23T18:13:15Z |3b|: clhs macrolet
2016-01-23T18:13:15Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm
2016-01-23T18:14:14Z gauss: thanks
2016-01-23T18:21:38Z madalu joined #lisp
2016-01-23T18:21:49Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-23T18:25:19Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-23T18:29:35Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T18:30:28Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T18:36:14Z gauss quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T18:36:24Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-23T18:40:03Z PuercoPop: sometimes old code (ej clx) instead of docstrings puts a comment on the side, was there an implementation that didn't support docstrings?
2016-01-23T18:40:24Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-23T18:41:30Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T18:51:18Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-23T18:52:38Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-23T18:55:46Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-23T18:56:53Z ryan_vw_ left #lisp
2016-01-23T18:57:07Z rhg135 quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in - making IRC 20% cooler)
2016-01-23T18:57:55Z rhg135 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T18:58:15Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T18:59:24Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-23T19:00:08Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:06:13Z MBstream joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:10:38Z hel-io quit
2016-01-23T19:12:33Z bb3121 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:14:49Z emaczen joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:14:56Z emaczen quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-23T19:15:15Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T19:15:36Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:16:24Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-23T19:21:51Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:23:26Z Howling joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:24:53Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T19:25:56Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-23T19:26:39Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:26:58Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T19:27:00Z fantomik joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:27:23Z eni quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-23T19:28:17Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:29:08Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:30:48Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:36:34Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:36:51Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:42:49Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:43:55Z ASau` joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:47:15Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T19:47:33Z ASau` is now known as ASau
2016-01-23T19:47:37Z IAmRasputin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:55:10Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T19:55:30Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:57:54Z joast joined #lisp
2016-01-23T19:59:30Z lnostdal quit (Quit: Invest and trade anonymously: https://goo.gl/Hw81yy)
2016-01-23T20:01:58Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T20:11:49Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-23T20:15:00Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-23T20:16:45Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-23T20:21:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-23T20:21:31Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-23T20:21:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-23T20:22:55Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T20:23:10Z GE3000 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T20:23:45Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-23T20:25:53Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-23T20:26:01Z coffee_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T20:28:54Z GE3000 is now known as C-5M
2016-01-23T20:34:43Z coffee_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-23T20:35:40Z coffee_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T20:36:56Z C-5M is now known as thejavajive
2016-01-23T20:39:02Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T20:39:02Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-23T20:42:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T20:44:10Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-23T20:47:50Z dextertzu quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T20:51:38Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-23T20:51:39Z thejavajive left #lisp
2016-01-23T20:52:03Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-23T20:52:29Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T20:53:55Z Howling quit (Quit: :tiuQ)
2016-01-23T21:01:36Z pjb: PuercoPop: no, because docstrings are just strings, originally. In CL, the docstring is processed specially, with respect to declarations. (defun f () (declare x) "docstring" (declare y) "not-doc-string" (declare bug) "result")
2016-01-23T21:02:23Z pjb: PuercoPop: but you can insert "doc" strings almost anywhere: (progn "let's print a newline:" (terpri) "Let's read something:" (read) "let
2016-01-23T21:02:28Z pjb: 's return
2016-01-23T21:02:41Z pjb: \"hello\"" "hello")
2016-01-23T21:03:08Z pjb: And those newlines are what you get when you work two weeks on a UK keyboard :-(
2016-01-23T21:03:08Z White_Flame: (PROGN '(OR GET CLASSIC WITH SYMBOLS) (TERPRI))
2016-01-23T21:03:15Z pjb: Or that.
2016-01-23T21:03:43Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-23T21:04:07Z pjb: But a docstring would be a string that could be recovered with DOCUMENTATION.
2016-01-23T21:05:35Z pjb: pareidolia: what do numbers look like?
2016-01-23T21:05:56Z pjb: pareidolia: there is no such thing as a "base-10 integer".
2016-01-23T21:06:32Z John[Lisbeth] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T21:10:00Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T21:10:09Z BWV1004 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T21:10:39Z pjb: pareidolia: you can use READ to see what is read.  eg. at the REPL, (read) RET #36rABC RET returns thirteen thousands three hundred and sixty eight and prints: D1O (when *print-base* is bound to thrity two).
2016-01-23T21:12:34Z pjb: pareidolia: but remember that you never see anything.  All you get with your eyes, is light reflected from the "surface" of objects.  You cannot see a number with eyes (only with the mind). What your eyes see is the shadow of a representation of the things, not the things themselves.
2016-01-23T21:13:21Z pjb: Sorry if that sounds philosophical, but it's fundamental. Philosophy is not superflous, it's basic.
2016-01-23T21:15:55Z BWV1004 is now known as BWV988
2016-01-23T21:18:45Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-23T21:19:46Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T21:20:43Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T21:21:35Z |3b|: ( ... and BASIC is off topic? :p )
2016-01-23T21:22:17Z phoe_krk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T21:22:31Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-23T21:22:38Z PuercoPop: pjb: so can you think of another reason why they would not just write the comment as a docstring?
2016-01-23T21:23:19Z White_Flame: Sometimes you're commenting code in general, and happen to write a function-specific comment in the same way?
2016-01-23T21:23:40Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-23T21:23:42Z White_Flame: does the codebase never use docstrings at all?
2016-01-23T21:24:42Z pjb: PuercoPop: perhaps they don't want to fill the image with docstrings?  Perhaps they didn't know about them.
2016-01-23T21:24:48Z PuercoPop: White_Flame: it does. But this does not appear to be the case. Just to give an specific example (not to point fingers) take this case https://github.com/sharplispers/clx/blob/master/input.lisp#L84
2016-01-23T21:25:14Z White_Flame: yeah, that's just weird
2016-01-23T21:25:18Z pjb: PuercoPop: and as White_Flame says, it may be a semantic question: docstrings would say WHAT is done, comments would say HOW it's done.
2016-01-23T21:25:32Z pjb: I may have both a docstring and a comment at the start of a function.
2016-01-23T21:25:34Z White_Flame: the comments are even in the place where docstrings should be
2016-01-23T21:25:50Z PuercoPop: I've found similar cases when reading old code from the CMU AI repository, so I assumed an older constraint
2016-01-23T21:26:01Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-23T21:26:22Z White_Flame: an argument _might_ be made for memory-constrained systems not to hold on to those strings, but that's very tenuous as Lisp has always been kinda big
2016-01-23T21:27:12Z pjb: (defun f (x) "Returns the factorial of x" ;; we use an iterative algorithm starting from the smallest numbers to stay within fixnums as much as possible \n (loop with p = 1 for i from 2 upto x do (setf p (* p i)) finally (return p)))
2016-01-23T21:28:07Z White_Flame: sure, but this is just egregious: (defun get-external-event-code (display event)  ;; Given an X11 event name, return the event-code
2016-01-23T21:28:24Z pjb: But it's true that sometimes you have to put emacs to good use to transform such comments into docstrings, when modernizing old code.
2016-01-23T21:28:26Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T21:29:16Z pjb: There's a useful forward-comment function in emacs (not a command), that can be used for that.
2016-01-23T21:31:06Z BWV988 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-23T21:33:47Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-23T21:42:17Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-23T21:47:25Z araujo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T21:48:48Z araujo_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T21:49:26Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-23T21:52:22Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T21:52:22Z vap1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T22:00:48Z emacsoma` joined #lisp
2016-01-23T22:02:38Z emacsomancer quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T22:10:31Z coffee_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-23T22:11:48Z bb3121 left #lisp
2016-01-23T22:14:08Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-23T22:14:15Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T22:14:52Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T22:15:59Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-23T22:18:14Z mprelude quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-23T22:18:41Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-23T22:18:48Z mprelude joined #lisp
2016-01-23T22:20:17Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T22:20:28Z fantomik quit (Quit: fantomik)
2016-01-23T22:24:08Z araujo__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T22:26:24Z netytan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T22:26:47Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-23T22:27:21Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-23T22:28:42Z araujo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T22:29:52Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-23T22:34:51Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-23T22:35:11Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-23T22:37:16Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-23T22:40:31Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-23T22:41:21Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T22:42:49Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T22:43:46Z araujo__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T22:44:06Z IAmRasputin quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-23T22:46:14Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T22:46:48Z netytan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T22:47:12Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-23T22:47:59Z znpy quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-23T22:50:46Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T22:56:49Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-23T22:59:53Z Xach__ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:02:06Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T23:08:11Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-23T23:10:33Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:12:26Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:14:59Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:18:50Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-23T23:22:13Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:23:42Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-23T23:23:46Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-23T23:26:13Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:27:58Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:28:08Z zeitue joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:28:33Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-23T23:31:26Z araujo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:31:44Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:32:35Z araujo_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-23T23:33:27Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:34:59Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-23T23:37:03Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:42:13Z lisper29 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-23T23:44:20Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-23T23:47:34Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:50:15Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-23T23:52:06Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-23T23:56:59Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-23T23:58:55Z Vulfe joined #lisp
2016-01-23T23:59:08Z Vulfe left #lisp
2016-01-23T23:59:20Z ralt: is there a way to see the body of a lambda as a string?
2016-01-24T00:03:08Z Bike: get the body and write-to-string.
2016-01-24T00:03:20Z ralt: Bike I mean when I have a function reference
2016-01-24T00:03:44Z Bike: You might be able to get the body with function-lambda-expression, but might not.
2016-01-24T00:03:47Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:05:56Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:12:11Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T00:12:24Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:15:40Z dextertzu joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:16:03Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:17:10Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T00:17:34Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:19:53Z killmaster quit (Quit: Bye!)
2016-01-24T00:19:59Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:31:44Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T00:35:35Z Fare joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:35:40Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T00:40:38Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T00:41:10Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-24T00:48:21Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:50:41Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:51:27Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-24T00:53:14Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T00:56:16Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-24T00:59:28Z araujo__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T01:02:05Z voidengineer joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:02:24Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T01:03:07Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:12:18Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:14:38Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T01:15:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:15:37Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-24T01:15:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:15:56Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T01:16:20Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T01:16:54Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:17:15Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T01:19:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T01:22:23Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T01:29:33Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:30:46Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T01:32:13Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T01:32:58Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:33:59Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:37:40Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T01:39:15Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-24T01:46:41Z anti-freeze quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T01:47:29Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:49:24Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T01:54:26Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T01:57:15Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T02:05:50Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-24T02:07:34Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T02:10:24Z mprelude quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-24T02:10:42Z mprelude joined #lisp
2016-01-24T02:19:08Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-24T02:20:56Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T02:22:41Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-24T02:29:40Z netytan quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-24T02:33:32Z hydan is now known as hydan`
2016-01-24T02:35:02Z hydan` is now known as hydan
2016-01-24T02:35:28Z hydan is now known as hydan`
2016-01-24T02:35:54Z hydan` is now known as hydan
2016-01-24T02:36:27Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T02:36:31Z vhost- quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T02:39:47Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T02:43:07Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T02:43:54Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T02:50:06Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T02:55:22Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T02:56:03Z killmaster joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:05:35Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T03:09:15Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:11:48Z vhost- joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:16:09Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T03:16:46Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:16:56Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-24T03:16:56Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:23:14Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:28:23Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:28:44Z hydan quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-24T03:28:52Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:30:32Z araujo_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-24T03:31:20Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:31:20Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-24T03:41:05Z voidengineer quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T03:48:20Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T03:48:58Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T03:50:51Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:52:23Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-24T03:55:27Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T03:55:35Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T04:02:04Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-24T04:13:59Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-24T04:14:17Z treaki__ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T04:15:41Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-24T04:16:34Z ACE_Recliner quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T04:18:12Z treaki_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-24T04:19:30Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T04:26:51Z Fare quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T04:32:51Z araujo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T04:34:02Z araujo__ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-24T04:34:55Z araujo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T04:35:47Z araujo_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T04:36:17Z araujo__ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-24T04:45:04Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T04:46:49Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-24T04:50:12Z Lycurgus joined #lisp
2016-01-24T04:51:07Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T04:51:38Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T04:55:18Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-24T04:56:12Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T04:56:15Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T05:01:26Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T05:02:57Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-24T05:05:13Z mea-culpa quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-24T05:13:17Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T05:15:13Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-24T05:23:26Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T05:24:27Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-24T05:29:36Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2016-01-24T05:31:33Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-24T05:38:05Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-24T05:48:16Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-24T05:51:49Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T05:52:20Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T05:55:17Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-24T05:55:28Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-24T05:57:32Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T05:58:16Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-24T06:00:24Z fewdea joined #lisp
2016-01-24T06:07:42Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-24T06:09:08Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-24T06:19:04Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-24T06:24:40Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-24T06:27:20Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-24T06:29:51Z lisper29 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T06:51:13Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T06:53:09Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T06:53:34Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-24T06:58:29Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T07:12:56Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T07:14:31Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T07:17:38Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-24T07:20:17Z test1600 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-24T07:20:17Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T07:23:02Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T07:34:16Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-24T07:40:56Z loke: Hello Lisp
2016-01-24T07:43:50Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T07:46:36Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T07:51:01Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-24T07:53:35Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T07:57:14Z phax quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T08:03:23Z beach: Hello loke.
2016-01-24T08:04:10Z je4i left #lisp
2016-01-24T08:04:17Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-24T08:04:46Z shka_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T08:08:12Z loke: Hello beach
2016-01-24T08:08:28Z loke has been doing mobile programming
2016-01-24T08:08:47Z loke: Why can't I do Android development in CL?
2016-01-24T08:09:32Z je4i quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T08:12:22Z hiyosi quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-24T08:12:47Z White_Flame: loke: there's mocl, and aren't ccl and sbcl running on android in some capacity?
2016-01-24T08:14:14Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-24T08:14:16Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.)
2016-01-24T08:14:43Z loke: White_Flame: Well, yes. But they aren't quite ready, and none of them have integrated with the Android API's.
2016-01-24T08:14:52Z loke: All the user interface stuff still have to be written in Java
2016-01-24T08:15:08Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-24T08:15:24Z loke: And since this application (Android client for Potato) is 99% user interface, it wouldn't help much.
2016-01-24T08:16:14Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T08:20:53Z H4ns: loke: maybe go for react native and clojurescript?
2016-01-24T08:26:15Z loke: H4ns: Hmm, that's for web-based stuff, isn't it?
2016-01-24T08:26:58Z H4ns: loke: react is facebook's web ui library, and react native is an implementation of react that runs as a native app on ios and android.
2016-01-24T08:29:14Z loke: Right, but you'd still be building the application using the Web-based API's, yes?
2016-01-24T08:29:45Z H4ns: loke: correct.  you'd be using clojurescript in a manner very similar to how you'd do in a browser.  http://cljsrn.org/ has loads of links.
2016-01-24T08:33:24Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-24T08:34:36Z loke: H4ns: Hmm, interesting.
2016-01-24T08:35:05Z MBstream quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-24T08:35:08Z loke: That said, I'm trying to use a much native Android stuff as I can and it works pretty well.
2016-01-24T08:35:21Z loke: So there is a choice between using the native API's, or using a better language.
2016-01-24T08:36:25Z H4ns: there is http://clojure-android.info/, too.  certainly off-topic, but clojure's java interop works pretty well
2016-01-24T08:41:59Z loke: This would be a completely separate project.
2016-01-24T08:42:23Z loke: Since the existing web-client is written in Clojurescript and React, I'm wondering if there is some synergy that could be exploited there.
2016-01-24T08:43:28Z loke: Doing the Emacs client was more fun, but I'm sort of forced to implement a mobile client. It's demanded of me.
2016-01-24T08:43:29Z splittist: loke: emoji support!
2016-01-24T08:43:35Z H4ns: sounds like it.  potato is a slack-workalike, isn't that right?
2016-01-24T08:43:47Z loke: splittist: Well, I rely on the empji support of the android keyboard.
2016-01-24T08:43:51Z loke: H4ns: It is.
2016-01-24T08:44:31Z loke: But the application supports uploading photos that is inlines in the message stream. I don't support that on enother the Android nor the Emacs clients yet
2016-01-24T08:44:41Z loke: (the ones that are posted are displayed though)
2016-01-24T08:44:59Z H4ns: loke: the clojurians slack is looking for an alternative platform as slack is the suck, do you think that potato would be an option for a few thousand users?
2016-01-24T08:45:17Z loke: H4ns: Yes. I think so. After all, the client is written in React/Cljs :-)
2016-01-24T08:45:36Z loke: They are welcome to try it out. The server on http://www.potato.network/ is free to use.
2016-01-24T08:45:44Z H4ns: loke: that is why i thought it might be regarded as an option.  i'll lobby a bit for it.
2016-01-24T08:45:46Z loke: Plugins are easy to write as well.
2016-01-24T08:46:26Z loke: I'l be happy to answer any questions anyone may have. We've used it internally for a year, but getting other people's opinions would be nice.
2016-01-24T08:46:35Z loke: Well, you know where to find me :-)
2016-01-24T08:46:48Z H4ns: sure :)
2016-01-24T08:49:09Z H4ns: loke: when one tries to change the password and the nickname at the same time, the changed nick name is not saved
2016-01-24T08:49:14Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T08:49:20Z loke: H4ns: Hmm... Really? oops
2016-01-24T08:49:46Z elderK joined #lisp
2016-01-24T08:49:47Z elderK quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T08:49:50Z loke: I added the nickname support fairly recently. It hasn't been tested much. I did it after I noticed that I needed to have a global unique Username that is visible to veeyrbody
2016-01-24T08:49:58Z loke: I'll fix it right way.
2016-01-24T08:50:03Z elderK joined #lisp
2016-01-24T08:50:04Z elderK quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T08:50:58Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T08:57:47Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T08:58:05Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:04:27Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:07:55Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T09:09:42Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:11:23Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:16:58Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:24:26Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:27:35Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T09:30:18Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:31:59Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T09:39:15Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T09:40:54Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:41:07Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:43:41Z Kazlock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T09:43:49Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:45:17Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:45:32Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T09:46:47Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T09:46:53Z bb3121 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:47:16Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:47:53Z smokeink quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T09:49:00Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T09:49:46Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-24T09:49:56Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T09:51:12Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-24T09:51:35Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:52:29Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:54:59Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T09:55:52Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T09:58:47Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:07:19Z Wojciech__K joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:10:50Z Wojciech_K_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T10:10:52Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-24T10:15:39Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:16:03Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:19:37Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-24T10:22:37Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:23:18Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:25:46Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T10:31:42Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:36:28Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:42:11Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:45:30Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T10:49:36Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-24T10:50:58Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:53:24Z malbertife_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:54:38Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-24T10:57:06Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T11:02:06Z xaotuk_ is now known as haotuk
2016-01-24T11:02:18Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-24T11:02:25Z haotuk is now known as xaotuk
2016-01-24T11:07:30Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-24T11:12:42Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T11:21:53Z owenowen joined #lisp
2016-01-24T11:21:55Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-24T11:22:11Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-24T11:23:15Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-24T11:24:26Z sjl quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T11:25:25Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-24T11:30:25Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-24T11:31:02Z owenowen quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T11:34:30Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-24T11:34:56Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-24T11:38:49Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T11:39:57Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-24T11:57:02Z Howling joined #lisp
2016-01-24T11:57:16Z Xach__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T12:01:12Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T12:01:41Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:02:35Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:03:12Z jsgrant quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T12:09:17Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:10:34Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:14:34Z muyinliu joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:15:01Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:18:27Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:19:36Z muyinliu_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:19:58Z muyinliu_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T12:20:26Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T12:24:08Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T12:24:23Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:25:26Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:26:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:26:53Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:27:29Z muyinliu quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-24T12:31:00Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:31:59Z treaki__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T12:31:59Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T12:32:00Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T12:32:46Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:39:18Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T12:48:57Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T12:49:43Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:54:41Z smokeink quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T12:54:48Z zeroish joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:55:04Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:56:08Z DrCode joined #lisp
2016-01-24T12:59:02Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:00:06Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T13:00:30Z Guest5283 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T13:01:13Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:04:51Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:09:44Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:12:24Z AeroNotix: H4ns: what's wrong with IRC?
2016-01-24T13:13:05Z loke: AeroNotix: There are plenty of things that IRC does not do well
2016-01-24T13:15:05Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:17:13Z LiamH quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T13:17:41Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:20:44Z LiamH quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T13:21:13Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:21:55Z LiamH quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T13:25:04Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:26:52Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:26:53Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-24T13:26:53Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:28:04Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:30:27Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:31:03Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:31:55Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:33:33Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T13:33:53Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:34:08Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:38:25Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T13:40:41Z AeroNotix: loke: such as? My needs might be entirely different. Just wondering what people need things like slack for
2016-01-24T13:40:58Z AeroNotix: I use slack at work and I thoroughly dislike it (and end up using the IRC gateway)
2016-01-24T13:43:15Z loke: AeroNotix: Well, at our work we used IRC. Then we had some needs that couldn't be fulfilled by it (I'll explain). So we tried Slack. It was ok-ish, but we couldn't continue use it since they din't have a self-hosted solution. We wanted something we could control. So, we wrote Potato which is all the features of slack we liked, but completely under our control (we open sourced it)
2016-01-24T13:43:37Z loke: The number one feature we needed that IRC didn't have was a persistent history.
2016-01-24T13:44:01Z loke: The requirement was that we can log in to a channel, and then simply scroll back to see everyting that was said, ever. As well as decent search capabilities of course.
2016-01-24T13:44:22Z loke: We tried having a bot with a web-interface recoding the logs, but it kinda sucked.
2016-01-24T13:48:25Z hydan is now known as hydan`
2016-01-24T13:48:37Z hydan` is now known as hydan
2016-01-24T13:49:19Z hydan is now known as hydan`
2016-01-24T13:49:21Z hydan` is now known as hydan
2016-01-24T13:50:11Z bb3121 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T13:51:30Z netytan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T13:51:56Z netytan joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:52:07Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T13:53:08Z madalu quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T13:55:12Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:55:59Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T13:56:12Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-24T13:58:30Z AeroNotix: loke: ok thanks
2016-01-24T14:00:48Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T14:06:42Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T14:07:32Z fourier: loke: any link to Potato chat ?
2016-01-24T14:08:28Z fourier: loke: can't find it googling
2016-01-24T14:11:33Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T14:14:37Z splittist: fourier: http://www.potato.network/
2016-01-24T14:15:26Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2016-01-24T14:16:02Z loke: fourier: potato.dhsdevelopments.com
2016-01-24T14:16:12Z loke: or, www.potato.network (if the DNS is updated)
2016-01-24T14:17:27Z archonix joined #lisp
2016-01-24T14:17:45Z archonix is now known as Guest32964
2016-01-24T14:17:48Z fourier: thanks, being not self hosted was always a main drawback of Slack for me, one of reasons I personally strongly opposed it in my company(same goes with Trello, regardless of how developers like it)
2016-01-24T14:18:51Z fourier: loke: Downloads link doesn't work, any reference to the source code ?
2016-01-24T14:18:55Z loke: fourier: Yeah, I agree
2016-01-24T14:19:09Z loke: Hmm, download link should point ot github
2016-01-24T14:19:11Z loke: I better fix that
2016-01-24T14:19:17Z loke: I was a biu
2016-01-24T14:19:20Z loke: https://github.com/cicakhq/potato
2016-01-24T14:19:37Z netytan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T14:19:37Z loke: You can also check the blog: http://blog.potato.network/ there are some technical descriptions there.
2016-01-24T14:19:42Z fourier: thanks!
2016-01-24T14:21:47Z loke: We also have a module to do Active Directory (or any LDAP server in fact) authentication
2016-01-24T14:21:56Z loke: it can also do Kerberos for single sing-on
2016-01-24T14:21:58Z loke: sign
2016-01-24T14:22:10Z fourier: does it have web chat?
2016-01-24T14:23:50Z AeroNotix: loke: oh it's actually written in CL, nice
2016-01-24T14:24:04Z loke: fourier: That's what it is. There are also Emacs and Android clients
2016-01-24T14:24:11Z loke: (working on the android client right now)
2016-01-24T14:24:14Z fourier: ah good
2016-01-24T14:24:26Z loke: The web client is written in clojurescript
2016-01-24T14:24:42Z AeroNotix: loke: I just think that it's a massive piece of yak-shaving for a company to invest time into their communication platform
2016-01-24T14:25:15Z AeroNotix: rather than just making do. Slack's lack of openness is easily ignored when you're shipping code which makes money
2016-01-24T14:25:18Z loke: AeroNotix: Well, it's not the company investing in it. We did it on our own time.
2016-01-24T14:25:27Z AeroNotix: loke: oh ok, that's fair enough then
2016-01-24T14:25:38Z loke: AeroNotix: The alternative was having to use Lync or something, which we absolutely refuse to do. So we'd rather write our own :_0
2016-01-24T14:25:55Z AeroNotix: are you a windows shop?
2016-01-24T14:25:57Z loke: That's why I'm hacking away at the Android client on a Sunday :-)
2016-01-24T14:26:28Z AeroNotix: loke: http://cicakhq.com/ is it just me or is this a blank page?
2016-01-24T14:26:39Z loke: AeroNotix: On the client, yes. Everybody (except our team) runs windows. The server side is all Solaris and Linux. Our application isn't even supported on Windows since several years.
2016-01-24T14:26:58Z fourier: AeroNotix: doesn't work for me either
2016-01-24T14:26:58Z loke: AeroNotix: I have no idea. That's a colleague's of mine personal company.
2016-01-24T14:27:09Z loke: I'm not sure he has any active business at themoment.
2016-01-24T14:27:15Z AeroNotix: ok
2016-01-24T14:28:19Z AeroNotix: loke: install looks quite involved for a homegrown chat application. Why the need for such infrastructure?
2016-01-24T14:28:58Z loke: AeroNotix: Well, many reasons :-)
2016-01-24T14:29:02Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-24T14:29:17Z loke: AeroNotix: It's not _that_ involved though.
2016-01-24T14:30:29Z loke: The thing is, since we didn't know how it would be deployed and how many users it should be able to support, it's written in a somewhat distributed manner. Meaning you can add servers arbitrarily for load-balancing.
2016-01-24T14:30:46Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T14:30:52Z loke: That's why all messaging is going through RabbitMQ and there is extensive caching using memcached.
2016-01-24T14:31:10Z loke: I designed it that way, because I wanted to see if I could do it. :-)
2016-01-24T14:32:09Z loke: The other components are mainly the usual build stuff for clojurescript and Javascript. Blame the insanity with is the JS tooling for that mess.
2016-01-24T14:33:27Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-24T14:34:14Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T14:37:50Z futpib_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T14:38:01Z beach quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T14:38:14Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-24T14:39:29Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T14:39:29Z karswell` joined #lisp
2016-01-24T14:40:13Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-24T14:40:29Z AeroNotix: ok thanks
2016-01-24T14:41:05Z AeroNotix: loke: seems like ejabberd would be helpful here as well. No?
2016-01-24T14:41:53Z AeroNotix: not as well, actually, instead of
2016-01-24T14:42:11Z loke: AeroNotix: Well, it could be. And I was investigating that as an option when we did the original design.
2016-01-24T14:43:31Z loke: AeroNotix: However, I discovered that our needs were actually describing a "live document" rather than a messaging system. You can think of it as a stream of text that people can edit all at the same time. The messaging part is secondary.
2016-01-24T14:46:17Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-24T14:51:15Z malbertife_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T14:51:39Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-24T14:57:37Z urandom__ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T14:58:20Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-24T14:58:24Z futpib_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T15:05:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T15:05:50Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:07:30Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:09:31Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:10:09Z AeroNotix: loke: interesting. Something like google wave?
2016-01-24T15:10:36Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T15:10:45Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:12:08Z quelqun_dautre joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:12:22Z quelqun_dautre left #lisp
2016-01-24T15:12:26Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T15:12:38Z loke: AeroNotix: Yes. In a sense. A chat like potato or slack is more like wave than IRC
2016-01-24T15:25:52Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-24T15:27:45Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:28:33Z AeroNotix: cool.
2016-01-24T15:29:30Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T15:30:41Z loke: AeroNotix: I would like it to be cool :-)
2016-01-24T15:34:49Z AeroNotix: loke: getting traction for a new chat application is going to be hard, doubly so for one written in CL.
2016-01-24T15:35:32Z pareidolia: Aaah Google Wave. Good times!
2016-01-24T15:35:46Z loke: AeroNotix: Probably. It's a good thing I don't need this to "succeed" since there is no money involved. :-)
2016-01-24T15:37:03Z pareidolia: I have a question about SETF-able places. I assume it's a syntactic thing
2016-01-24T15:37:37Z loke: I personally dislike Slack with a passion, and taking business away from them would make me happy. But my financial support is not dependent on that ever happening. :-)
2016-01-24T15:37:46Z loke: pareidolia: It's a macro thing.
2016-01-24T15:37:48Z pareidolia: So (setf (getf *foo* 'bar) 'baz) works but (setf (identity (getf *foo* 'bar)) 'baz) is not supposed to work right?
2016-01-24T15:38:08Z loke: pareidolia: Correct
2016-01-24T15:38:15Z loke: You can't set the identify of something.
2016-01-24T15:38:33Z shka_: AeroNotix: how so? Nowdays it is more important to get web client
2016-01-24T15:38:35Z pareidolia: Identity is a short example
2016-01-24T15:38:35Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T15:39:05Z loke: pareidolia: Wait a seocnd. I think I answered exactly this on Stackoverflow once
2016-01-24T15:39:07Z loke: let me link you
2016-01-24T15:39:07Z shka_: slack solves no problems
2016-01-24T15:39:12Z shka_: no voice calls
2016-01-24T15:39:17Z shka_: no desktop sharing
2016-01-24T15:39:18Z pareidolia: This makes it impossible to abstract a setf-able place behind a single function
2016-01-24T15:39:20Z shka_: no ldap integration
2016-01-24T15:39:33Z loke: shka_: Potato has LDAP integration :-)
2016-01-24T15:39:41Z shka_: never heared about it
2016-01-24T15:39:48Z pareidolia: Insular monopoly yay!
2016-01-24T15:39:54Z AeroNotix: shka_: I meant application in all terms, web/native
2016-01-24T15:40:16Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T15:40:18Z loke: shka_: We've been discussing it just now. It's my open-source slack-alternative.
2016-01-24T15:40:23Z shka_: AeroNotix: i don't see how cl would be a problem here
2016-01-24T15:40:32Z shka_: loke: ooooh, i see now
2016-01-24T15:40:36Z shka_: link please?
2016-01-24T15:40:49Z loke: shka_: http://www.potato.network/
2016-01-24T15:40:58Z loke: shka_: and http://blog.potato.network/
2016-01-24T15:41:17Z shka_: could use better name
2016-01-24T15:41:25Z AeroNotix: shka_: because people will be running it themselves and most shops don't have CL experience to be running/deploying/managing CL applications?
2016-01-24T15:41:50Z loke: pareidolia: Hmm, can't find it now. Weird.
2016-01-24T15:42:02Z loke: pareidolia: Anyway, SETF is merely a clever macroexpansion
2016-01-24T15:42:27Z loke: shka_: I'm sure it could. But in true keeping with Open Source projects, a bad name is needed. :-)
2016-01-24T15:42:30Z shka_: yay for emacs client
2016-01-24T15:43:46Z loke: pareidolia: Found my answer: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5641845/can-lisp-functions-return-references-or-receive-arguments-by-reference/5643572
2016-01-24T15:45:39Z flavi0 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:47:57Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:49:54Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:52:34Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:53:23Z pareidolia: loke: Cool
2016-01-24T15:54:48Z pareidolia: loke: Oh wow, so I can defun to abstract getting and setting with one function
2016-01-24T15:55:01Z pareidolia: This is going on the stack of notes
2016-01-24T15:55:40Z wz1000 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T15:55:50Z loke: pareidolia: Yes. And if you want to do something more advanced, you should look into DEFINE-SETF-EXPANDER
2016-01-24T15:56:28Z loke: That one can do anything you want, but it's harder to use than just defunning a setf function
2016-01-24T15:56:34Z erased quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T15:57:16Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-24T15:57:51Z pareidolia: Thanks! I was wondering about another thing
2016-01-24T15:58:21Z loke: pareidolia: I'm going to bed in 5 minutes. So please be brief
2016-01-24T15:58:22Z pareidolia: I'm toying with a sort-of dsl and I am going back and forth between a function and a macro
2016-01-24T15:59:10Z loke: Rule of thumb: Use a function
2016-01-24T15:59:21Z loke: If you absolutely can't use a function, then consider a macro.
2016-01-24T15:59:43Z pareidolia: So I have something like (defmapping livingroom-led 3 4 5) that's supposed to define a function called livingroom-led
2016-01-24T16:00:02Z loke: pareidolia: Ah yes. That needs to be a macro
2016-01-24T16:00:20Z pareidolia: Macros expand to a defun, functions shouldn't call defun -- good rule of thumb?
2016-01-24T16:00:37Z loke: pareidolia: Yes.
2016-01-24T16:01:11Z loke: It is possible to define functions frmo a function, but it's messy and you can easily confuse the compiler.
2016-01-24T16:01:15Z pareidolia: Alright! It's quite mindbending thinking about when various arguments are supposed to be evaluated etc.
2016-01-24T16:01:30Z loke: OK, time to go. Have fun all
2016-01-24T16:01:36Z pareidolia: Thanks so much, ttyl
2016-01-24T16:05:38Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:07:22Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T16:07:43Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:07:54Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:08:01Z porky11 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-24T16:09:40Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T16:10:43Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:14:08Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:16:04Z AeroNotix: loke: how often do you do a clean build with potato?
2016-01-24T16:16:18Z AeroNotix: Your instructions miss some steps
2016-01-24T16:16:48Z AeroNotix: and the build fails locally here with all the packages installed. I'll persevere but wondering...
2016-01-24T16:17:26Z AeroNotix: shka_: and this^ is what I am talking about. There's literally zero chance of adoption of CL software when building applictions can dump you into the debugger.
2016-01-24T16:17:45Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T16:17:49Z shka_: AeroNotix: :(
2016-01-24T16:17:56Z AeroNotix: my $0.02 - this situation can improve. If you look at pgloader then it's a good step in the right directoin
2016-01-24T16:18:05Z shka_: but on the other hand
2016-01-24T16:18:10Z AeroNotix: and I tried to take it further with lispkit. The install is as-neatly wrapped as I could make it.
2016-01-24T16:18:33Z AeroNotix: lots of tools out there for us to make packaging and compiling Lisp applications a breeze.
2016-01-24T16:18:36Z shka_: langing in the debugger is not all that different from failing to build with java or whatever
2016-01-24T16:18:43Z AeroNotix: shka_: of course it is
2016-01-24T16:18:57Z AeroNotix: Zero toolchains will land you in a completely foreign programming environment
2016-01-24T16:19:10Z AeroNotix: if java fails to build it doesn't whip open IntelliJ or something
2016-01-24T16:19:53Z AeroNotix: not to mention that SBCL's tracebacks are second only to Clojure in how disgusting they are to read
2016-01-24T16:20:08Z AeroNotix: pages and pages of uppercase text to decipher
2016-01-24T16:20:14Z shka_: great
2016-01-24T16:20:17Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-24T16:20:33Z shka_: at least i know that it is not just me who has a problem with sbcl is that regard
2016-01-24T16:20:40Z AeroNotix: my $0.02 but I'm convinced we can make this better with some simple time spent on building common tools like buildapp and related libraries for this
2016-01-24T16:20:59Z shka_: that's good
2016-01-24T16:21:04Z shka_: anyway
2016-01-24T16:21:15Z shka_: i'm having really hard time using sbcl stack traces
2016-01-24T16:21:24Z shka_: and slime debugger in general
2016-01-24T16:21:38Z shka_: is there some sort of manual floating around?
2016-01-24T16:21:49Z AeroNotix: Not that I know of, I'm sure someone else in here could help regarding that
2016-01-24T16:21:51Z loke: shka_: It's a matter of getting used to them.
2016-01-24T16:22:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:22:37Z AeroNotix: I will say though that often having gigantic tracebacks is because you're running applications and something went wrong, for development the crashes/tracebacks are much smaller and manually triggered if you're developing the way Lisp is intended to be -- REPL driven
2016-01-24T16:23:50Z shka_: AeroNotix: i'm obviously talking about first scenario
2016-01-24T16:24:05Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:24:16Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-24T16:24:17Z AeroNotix: shka_: cool, just wanted to clarify
2016-01-24T16:25:04Z shka_: my code is far from perfect so even if i will try to cover are cases with unit tests and do minimal assumptions something may go wrong
2016-01-24T16:25:20Z shka_: and if it goes, i need to somehow debug it
2016-01-24T16:26:15Z oleo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T16:26:59Z AeroNotix: shka_: not much to say aside from being able to divine information out of an SBCL traceback is a skill learned not given
2016-01-24T16:27:21Z shka_: heh, ok
2016-01-24T16:27:37Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:27:37Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-24T16:27:37Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:27:40Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T16:29:20Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T16:29:24Z wz1000 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T16:29:41Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:31:21Z pjb: pareidolia: see clhs 11.1.2.1.2  point 13.  However, (shadow 'identity) (defun identity (x) x) (define-setf-expander identity (x &environment env) (get-setf-expansion x env)) (let ((x (cons 1 2)))  (setf (identity (car x)) 0) x) #| --> (0 . 2) |#
2016-01-24T16:31:50Z Sucks quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T16:32:36Z pareidolia: pjb: "identity" was just for sake of example
2016-01-24T16:33:22Z pjb: pareidolia: remember, you never have to (:use "COMMON-LISP"); you can always (:use "YOUR-OWN-LISP").
2016-01-24T16:33:23Z AeroNotix: getting `unknown attribute name: SB-INT:EXPLICIT-CHECK`
2016-01-24T16:33:35Z AeroNotix: any ideas?
2016-01-24T16:33:40Z AeroNotix: google suggests I need to update something.
2016-01-24T16:33:52Z pjb: pareidolia: clhs 11.1.2.1.2 and shadow are also for the sake of example.
2016-01-24T16:34:07Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:34:21Z pjb: pareidolia: you're only forbidden to mess with the implementation. You can define setf-expansions for your own functions.
2016-01-24T16:34:52Z scymtym: AeroNotix: SB-INT:EXPLICIT-CHECK was changed recently. in which context does the error occur?
2016-01-24T16:34:53Z pareidolia: I didn't know "defun" could be stretched like that, it's very cool
2016-01-24T16:35:08Z pjb: It's not defun. It's define-setf-expander.
2016-01-24T16:35:10Z AeroNotix: scymtym: pulling in some quicklisp packages
2016-01-24T16:35:15Z AeroNotix: assuming I need to upgrade quicklisp
2016-01-24T16:35:43Z pjb: pareidolia: you can use (defun (setf f) (new-value …) …), defsetf (two forms) or define-setf-expander, in increasing levels of sophistication.
2016-01-24T16:35:52Z scymtym: AeroNotix: either that or slime
2016-01-24T16:36:22Z AeroNotix: scymtym: ok, ql first
2016-01-24T16:36:53Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:37:00Z AeroNotix: scymtym: well I'm not using slime here for this script, I've upgraded quicklisp and I still have an issue.
2016-01-24T16:38:48Z loke: AeroNotix: That's when building STRING-CASE right?
2016-01-24T16:39:10Z AeroNotix: loke: yes
2016-01-24T16:40:43Z loke: Yeah, that's a change that happened in the latest SBCL
2016-01-24T16:40:56Z loke: STRING-CASE has been fixed, so it should be in the next QL release.
2016-01-24T16:41:10Z loke: Until then, just remove the reference to explicit-check in string-case
2016-01-24T16:41:29Z loke: It's in a defknown declaration I think. just remove that symbol from the list.
2016-01-24T16:41:30Z AeroNotix: What about manually putting the new  string-case into local-projects?
2016-01-24T16:41:40Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-24T16:41:43Z loke: AeroNotix: No need. The new QL should be out soon.
2016-01-24T16:41:49Z AeroNotix: ok
2016-01-24T16:42:41Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T16:43:14Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:56:22Z brh joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:56:24Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-24T16:57:57Z gargaml joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:00:02Z newcup quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T17:04:44Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:05:14Z brh quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-24T17:05:39Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-24T17:11:44Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:12:06Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T17:12:13Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:18:37Z wglb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T17:19:55Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T17:20:29Z DrCode quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T17:20:47Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:22:12Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:23:35Z m0li quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-24T17:24:33Z francogrex joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:25:31Z francogrex: ccl docs are ambiguous. I would want to build from scratch but it seems impossible is it? One always needs an already build heap image or a ccl executable?
2016-01-24T17:25:43Z francogrex: I got the sources from https://github.com/Clozure/ccl
2016-01-24T17:31:20Z futpib quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T17:32:22Z francogrex quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-24T17:34:38Z wglb joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:36:20Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-24T17:38:37Z erased_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:41:20Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:41:20Z erased quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-24T17:45:14Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:45:46Z erased_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T17:50:00Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:50:47Z Kruppe joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:52:08Z francogrex joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:52:37Z francogrex: it seems there is a core "heap image" that is like a binary seed that is always needed to "bootstrap" the build
2016-01-24T17:52:56Z francogrex: but how is that "heap image" built in the first place? it seems opaque
2016-01-24T17:57:42Z d00der joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:58:31Z pjb: francogrex: this is correct, ccl is written in ccl (and some C for the kernel FFI).
2016-01-24T17:58:47Z pjb: francogrex: so you always need ccl(n-1) to compile ccl(n).
2016-01-24T17:59:00Z newcup joined #lisp
2016-01-24T17:59:03Z pjb: francogrex: if you wanted to avoid it, you would have first to port ccl to Common Lisp.
2016-01-24T17:59:40Z pjb: francogrex: once upon a time, the first heap image has been built either using another CL, or C or assembler.
2016-01-24T17:59:56Z pjb: (probably assembler, given that ccl originates in MCL, Macintosh Common Lisp.
2016-01-24T17:59:57Z pjb: )
2016-01-24T18:00:44Z pjb: francogrex: it's basically just a question of what language ccl is written.  It IS NOT written in Common Lisp; it's written in ccl.
2016-01-24T18:02:30Z francogrex: pjb: ok clear enough, mostly
2016-01-24T18:02:31Z pjb: francogrex: this is not to say that porting it to CL wouldn't be easy enough.  You would just have to either replace, or redefine the purely ccl opeartors.
2016-01-24T18:02:48Z pjb: This is something you could probably do on a short holidays.
2016-01-24T18:03:26Z pjb: francogrex: after all, they did it from sbcl from cmucl, and AFAICS, sbcl and cmucl are more complex than ccl.
2016-01-24T18:03:30Z francogrex: ok but I am wondering if some forensic research can be done on this: "once upon a time, the first heap image has been built either .."
2016-01-24T18:04:06Z d00der quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-24T18:04:42Z pjb: Yes. Unfortunately, it's probably lost, because it was proprietary software at the time. Coral Sofware was the originator of the implementation.
2016-01-24T18:04:50Z pjb: Check the right column: http://clozure.com/clozure-cl.html
2016-01-24T18:05:18Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:05:51Z francogrex: i see. so in all honesty one cannot say that ccl is a true open-source
2016-01-24T18:06:10Z pjb: In 1984, development for Macintosh occured on Lisa, using Pascal or Assembler.  A few months later, you could develp in assembler on Macintosh.  The following year, Lightspeed Pascal was available in Macintosh.
2016-01-24T18:06:17Z pjb: Nowadays it is.
2016-01-24T18:06:29Z pjb: All the sources of ccl are under (one of) the apache license.
2016-01-24T18:06:42Z pjb: All the _current_ sources. Yes.
2016-01-24T18:06:54Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T18:07:25Z pjb: Also, in those old times, there was no source history kept!
2016-01-24T18:07:48Z pjb: At most there was an archive or backup floppies of the sources made at release times.
2016-01-24T18:07:56Z Howling quit (Quit: :tiuQ)
2016-01-24T18:08:33Z francogrex: pjb: ok. for cmucl/sbcl is it the same story or could someone really start over from the scratch
2016-01-24T18:08:35Z francogrex: ?
2016-01-24T18:08:52Z pjb: francogrex: if you check the logs of software such as bash, emacs or gcc, you will see that we don't go back to the version 0.0. For this you would have to fetch CD-ROM (they're not readable after a few years) or old disks or tapes…
2016-01-24T18:09:09Z pjb: francogrex: beach is starting from scratch, writing sicl entirely in Common Lisp.
2016-01-24T18:09:34Z bolichep quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T18:10:36Z pjb: Notice also that during the history of the compilers, since the target hosts change, you have an evolution on the three sides: the language implemented, the language used to implement, AND the target "language" = processor.
2016-01-24T18:10:51Z pjb: s/history of the compilers/history of a compiler/
2016-01-24T18:12:29Z learning joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:15:19Z francogrex: complicated
2016-01-24T18:15:56Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:17:11Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:17:16Z pjb: francogrex: when you write the first implementation of a new language, you must use a different (existing) implementation language.
2016-01-24T18:18:04Z francogrex: true, so then the core initially is machine language
2016-01-24T18:18:53Z pjb: Indeed.
2016-01-24T18:19:12Z francogrex: like some of them couldn't be that old for example the arm architeture is not that old is it
2016-01-24T18:19:37Z pjb: francogrex: the first computers used a patch board for programming.
2016-01-24T18:19:43Z francogrex: therefore I believe a relatively new heap image must have been assembled on that platform recently
2016-01-24T18:19:56Z pjb: called "plugboard": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plugboard
2016-01-24T18:19:59Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:20:19Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:20:44Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:20:53Z pjb: francogrex: so basically, you had electromechanic components (registers, adders, card reader, printer, sequencers, etc), and you hooked them physically to implement the processing you wanted.
2016-01-24T18:21:36Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:22:06Z pjb: Next, when they started to use stored program computers, (eg. the 1401), they "cheated", by mapping instructions to mnemonic bit patterns on punched cards. Ie. the addition binary instruction was encoded as the Hollerith A character.
2016-01-24T18:22:10Z francogrex: :) I always wanted to learn how to build a very basic computer like the simplest ever... just to learn
2016-01-24T18:22:35Z pjb: So you could write "binary" programs in the card punchers without an assembler. (but you had to compute the addresses by hand).
2016-01-24T18:23:15Z pjb: Then using this direct "binary" programming they implemented the first assemblers, named "autocoder": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocoder
2016-01-24T18:24:06Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:24:06Z pjb: And then of course, each time they developped a new computer, the system software, an assembler and an emulator was written on the previous computer.
2016-01-24T18:24:26Z pjb: So in real life, actual boot strapping occurs very rarely.
2016-01-24T18:26:14Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T18:26:43Z pjb: If you wanted to do it, you could learn x86 assembler and BIOS theory, and  you could build a boot "ROM" by hand (you just need wires and solder to make a ROM).  Your boot "ROM" would have a simple program that would read some data on some device (say the keyboard, probably the simpliest), by performing a trivial transformation.  You could for example just read hexadecimal bytes, and store them in sequence, until the J key is typed,
2016-01-24T18:26:44Z pjb: then you would jump to the filled memory block and run the program.
2016-01-24T18:27:32Z pjb: This would allow to design a bigger boot procedure, that you would have to type on the keyboard each time you start the computer.
2016-01-24T18:27:44Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:28:32Z francogrex finds this history of computing fascinating.
2016-01-24T18:29:44Z pjb: Build your own computer from transistors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xISG4nGTQYE
2016-01-24T18:30:37Z francogrex: great I will save this
2016-01-24T18:31:34Z pjb: Also, you can use mechanics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdT1YT9AOPA
2016-01-24T18:31:42Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:32:49Z pjb: francogrex: or you could build yourself a KIM-1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIM-1
2016-01-24T18:32:57Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T18:33:32Z test1600: Hello
2016-01-24T18:33:33Z pjb: I would just do it as a virtual machine :-)
2016-01-24T18:33:43Z pjb: (there's a 6502 VM in CL IIRC).
2016-01-24T18:33:55Z pjb: test1600: hello. testing goes in #test
2016-01-24T18:38:21Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T18:40:45Z francogrex: ok thanks pjb. It's always enriching experience talking to you even on broader subjects :)
2016-01-24T18:43:03Z pjb: francogrex: If you have time, you can also find old hardware on second hand markets. It's always fun.
2016-01-24T18:43:59Z munge quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T18:44:00Z pjb: eg. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-LAB-VOLT-6502-Micro-Computer-Trainer-Apple-II-KIM-1-SYM-1-/191784006564?hash=item2ca737b3a4:g:oNAAAOSwGotWmoju
2016-01-24T18:44:42Z pjb: Nowadays, you can have this fun with arduino.
2016-01-24T18:45:25Z pjb: But you will notice that you are always using the most powerful computer system available to develop the hardware or software for the bare platform.
2016-01-24T18:45:59Z pjb: You could assemble the 6502 code by hand, but once you've did it for a small routine you will switch to linux and a 6502 assembler to do it for you :-)
2016-01-24T18:46:56Z test1600 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-24T18:46:56Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:47:01Z pjb: Now, to rejoin the topic, the question is to write a simple lisp reader, eval print and loop in assembler (eg. arm or x86 assembler).
2016-01-24T18:47:27Z pjb: Once you have a basic lisp REPL, you can leave assembler, and write more lisp code, until you've got a CL implemented.
2016-01-24T18:48:39Z malice joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:48:58Z pjb: You can also read TAOCP; algorithms are given in MIX or MIIX assembler, so you will write the exercises in those assembler too (there are MIX/MIIX VMs to test and debug them).
2016-01-24T18:55:46Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T18:56:12Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T18:57:46Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-24T19:01:45Z danlentz_ quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-24T19:01:47Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T19:03:59Z hydan is now known as hydan`
2016-01-24T19:03:59Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:04:01Z hydan` is now known as hydan
2016-01-24T19:04:23Z sweater is now known as Guest37869
2016-01-24T19:08:43Z Jake___ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:15:42Z learning quit
2016-01-24T19:19:39Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:20:11Z Jake___ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-24T19:20:44Z AeroNotix: loke: once I've compiled the web-app dir, how to run it?
2016-01-24T19:21:16Z danlentz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:25:56Z karswell` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T19:27:50Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T19:28:41Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:29:10Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:33:12Z francogrex: yes I had a copy of TAOCP somewhere in the attic if my wife had not already clean it along with the rest of "the junk up there"...
2016-01-24T19:34:46Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T19:35:43Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T19:37:15Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:38:04Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T19:38:21Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:39:22Z araujo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:39:34Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:41:00Z pjb: francogrex: this is a book that should be read by children.
2016-01-24T19:41:06Z pjb: studied
2016-01-24T19:41:12Z pjb: s/read/studied/
2016-01-24T19:42:09Z araujo_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T19:43:23Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T19:44:35Z setheus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T19:45:22Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:45:56Z setheus joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:46:35Z Kundry_Wag quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-24T19:47:09Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:47:15Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:48:01Z araujo__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-24T19:48:02Z Kundry_Wag quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T19:48:10Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-24T19:49:01Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:49:42Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:52:59Z araujo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:53:01Z constantinexvi quit (Quit: Exiting)
2016-01-24T19:53:05Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T19:53:26Z araujo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T19:53:31Z DrCode joined #lisp
2016-01-24T19:55:38Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T19:58:59Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-24T20:00:10Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:01:14Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-24T20:01:47Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-24T20:02:26Z badkins quit
2016-01-24T20:03:02Z araujo__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T20:03:15Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:04:36Z araujo_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-24T20:05:28Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:07:09Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:09:59Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:11:56Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T20:12:13Z araujo_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T20:15:26Z zotherstupidguy: pjb is s/blah/blahlbah a vim regex or general regex?
2016-01-24T20:16:32Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T20:16:33Z mishoo_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T20:17:59Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:19:02Z Bike: sed.
2016-01-24T20:20:49Z MBstream joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:24:40Z francogrex quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-24T20:28:46Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T20:29:54Z khisanth_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T20:29:57Z cagmz joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:30:42Z ryan_vw_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:30:53Z Wojciech__K quit (Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше))
2016-01-24T20:32:15Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:32:40Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T20:33:26Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T20:35:17Z cagmz quit
2016-01-24T20:40:55Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T20:41:50Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:41:55Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:43:15Z khisanth_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:47:00Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-24T20:50:47Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T20:53:19Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-24T20:56:51Z drmeister: What do other Common Lisp's do wrt pre-compilation of files that they provide with REQUIRE
2016-01-24T20:58:48Z drmeister: I have some programs that I provide using REQUIRE and they are loaded as Common Lisp source and compiled on the fly.
2016-01-24T20:59:30Z drmeister: I think I should COMPILE-FILE them first and put the FASL files in some directory hierarchy for FASL files and then have REQUIRE pull them from there.
2016-01-24T21:00:14Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T21:01:09Z Bike: can you not put them in whatever hierarchy you already use for require?
2016-01-24T21:01:29Z drmeister: I decided not to use ASDF for these programs because they are involved in Clasp bootstrapping and it would insert ASDF as a dependency.
2016-01-24T21:01:39Z |3b|: drmeister: consider security and permissions if that is some "install directory" location as opposed to just the usual per-user asdf cache
2016-01-24T21:01:55Z drmeister: I could but that would put them in the source tree.  Which I suppose is ok because the source tree is copied into the Clasp build directories.
2016-01-24T21:02:23Z |3b|: permissions in that users probably can't write the install dir, and security in that if they do, they might be able to corrupt the generated fasl for other users by modifying the compiler before REQUIREing it
2016-01-24T21:02:53Z |3b|: (assuming you mean compiling on demand, and not just as part of the install process)
2016-01-24T21:03:03Z drmeister: Should REQUIRE be able to COMPILE-FILE the source lazily?
2016-01-24T21:03:40Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:04:28Z |3b| thinks it is permitted to, but not sure there is any reason to
2016-01-24T21:05:03Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T21:07:09Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:09:16Z prxq: drmeister: probably easier to just live with asdf as a dependency. I suspect you will never feel the "weight", unless you do something very weird.
2016-01-24T21:09:40Z drmeister: |3b| Your point about security is a good one.   I haven't considered the issues of users sharing one Clasp instance.
2016-01-24T21:09:48Z prxq: that is, if you can live with an ad-hoc system definition facility, asdf is just a bit of convenience.
2016-01-24T21:10:11Z prxq: easy to drop if the need may arise
2016-01-24T21:10:12Z mishoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T21:10:36Z prxq: s/if you can live/if you can currently live/
2016-01-24T21:10:37Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:12:48Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:15:15Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-24T21:15:34Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-24T21:17:05Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T21:20:41Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:24:30Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T21:30:27Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T21:31:35Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:32:14Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:33:54Z mathrick joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:37:48Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:39:57Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:47:00Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-24T21:51:12Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-24T21:53:08Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-24T21:54:06Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T21:55:18Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-24T21:55:48Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-24T21:59:35Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:02:54Z Slench joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:03:05Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-24T22:03:13Z Slench: heya peeps, I was wondering if you could answer me a quick question
2016-01-24T22:03:54Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:03:54Z |3b| answers "no"
2016-01-24T22:04:10Z Slench: how do I make something like this work: (defun foo (fn) (fn a b)); in a non-scheme lisp
2016-01-24T22:04:16Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:04:25Z Slench: er, a and b are actual values I should point out
2016-01-24T22:04:38Z |3b|: clhs funcall
2016-01-24T22:04:38Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_funcal.htm
2016-01-24T22:04:52Z |3b|: for cl lisps at least, which is all this channel covers
2016-01-24T22:05:13Z Slench: so (defun foo (fn) (funcall #'fn a b)) correct?
2016-01-24T22:05:28Z prxq: Slench: yes
2016-01-24T22:05:33Z prxq: no
2016-01-24T22:05:43Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:05:49Z prxq: (defun foo (fn) (funcall fn a b))
2016-01-24T22:06:10Z Slench: so when do I use #'?
2016-01-24T22:06:28Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:06:32Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T22:07:05Z prxq: when you do (foo #'+), for example :-)
2016-01-24T22:07:23Z Slench: oh, funcall is a macro
2016-01-24T22:07:24Z Slench: isn't it?
2016-01-24T22:07:33Z prxq: (foo '+) wouldnt work
2016-01-24T22:07:43Z prxq: Slench: that's orthogonal to that
2016-01-24T22:08:12Z DeadTrickster_: morning
2016-01-24T22:08:20Z DeadTrickster_: who is current cffi maintainer?
2016-01-24T22:08:59Z prxq: Slench: mmm, i think (foo '+) actually works
2016-01-24T22:12:01Z prxq: #' is the function behind the symbol.
2016-01-24T22:12:28Z prxq: funcall and co are forgiving on that
2016-01-24T22:12:37Z |3b|: funcall is a function, you pass it a functio object (or designator) and it call it
2016-01-24T22:13:22Z prxq: #'+ is the function, '+ is a designator
2016-01-24T22:13:29Z |3b|: a function object is like any other object, you can store it in variables and access it normally, so if FN contains a function object, (funcall fn ...)
2016-01-24T22:13:34Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:13:45Z Slench: thanks
2016-01-24T22:14:07Z |3b|: to get a function object from a symbol naming a function, you use (function symbol-naming-function), which you can abbreviate #'symbol-naming-function
2016-01-24T22:15:03Z |3b|: FUNCTION is a special operator, since it doesn't evaluate its argument and looks at the actual argument as it appears in the source
2016-01-24T22:15:07Z lisper29 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T22:15:10Z soundobstacle joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:15:24Z Whymind joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:15:27Z prxq: and if you have a crappy lisp, you can get type '(this does not function properly) and get (THIS DOES NOT . #'PROPERLY)
2016-01-24T22:15:33Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T22:16:12Z |3b|: FUNCTION also works on lists like (lambda () ...), which is another way to get a function object
2016-01-24T22:17:14Z |3b|: though LAMBDA is a macro that expands to (function (lambda ...)) so you don't normally need to use FUNCTION or #' on (lambda ...)
2016-01-24T22:17:40Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T22:17:44Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T22:18:35Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:18:40Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:18:44Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:19:12Z shikhin is now known as fishb0t
2016-01-24T22:19:53Z fishb0t is now known as shikhin
2016-01-24T22:19:57Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:20:25Z pjb: drmeister: notice that (require 'module "file.lisp") is equivalent to (load "file.lisp") if you compile upon load, you may compile upon require.  For (require 'module) you can do as you wish, as an implementor.
2016-01-24T22:21:03Z cxpp joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:21:23Z drmeister: pjb: By "compile on load" you mean compile each form as its loaded?
2016-01-24T22:21:37Z pjb: Yes.
2016-01-24T22:22:07Z pjb: Load actually is a "REL" Read Eval Loop; it's EVAL that may be doing the compiling.
2016-01-24T22:22:27Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T22:23:04Z pjb: drmeister: notice that some implementations have hooks to process REQUIRE, and some hooks call upon ASDF.
2016-01-24T22:23:18Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:23:29Z pjb: You could also have hooks to call upon quicklisp, so that (require 'system) would quickload the system.
2016-01-24T22:23:59Z pjb: In the case of ecl and clasp however, I assume that you would want to process and package specially modules that contain C/C++ sources.
2016-01-24T22:25:14Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T22:25:45Z pjb: So asdf, quicklisp or other module management systems would be only provided under REQUIRE optionally; you could have the basic module management wired in for bootstrap.
2016-01-24T22:26:08Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-24T22:26:11Z IAmRasputin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:26:33Z drmeister: Clasp copies ecl's builtin require and when ASDF is loaded then it adds another layer on top of that.
2016-01-24T22:28:03Z hydan quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-24T22:28:47Z pjb: The minimal implementation of require would be (defun require (module &optional paths) (unless (find module *modules*) (mapc (function load) (or (ensure-list path) (module-to-paths module))))) ; it is expected that the loaded files will do (provide module).
2016-01-24T22:29:13Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:29:32Z pjb: So having a module-to-paths for your bootstrapping modules would be all that is needed.
2016-01-24T22:29:46Z pjb: (in terms of "system" construction).
2016-01-24T22:30:10Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-24T22:30:37Z gargaml quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2016-01-24T22:34:21Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T22:36:14Z drmeister: I have that - I was thinking about beefing it up where it would lazily compile-file the module and then load that.  That opens questions about where should the fasl file be stored.
2016-01-24T22:36:14Z Whymind quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T22:36:47Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:37:06Z Whymind joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:37:06Z flavi0 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-24T22:38:53Z broken_clock joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:39:36Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T22:39:43Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:40:50Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:44:30Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T22:44:42Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-24T22:48:14Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T22:48:38Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T22:49:13Z Slench quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-24T22:49:14Z Guest32964 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-24T22:51:52Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T22:57:25Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T22:57:44Z pjb: drmeister: I guess everytime you are asking yourself such a question, you could consider just making it configurable.  In practice, even if clasp is installed system-wide (eg. in /usr/bin, or /usr/local/bin), the specific user may not have write access to the corresponding lib share or /var/lib /var/share directories.  So you could use ~/.cache/clasp (thru the standard XDG environment variables).
2016-01-24T23:00:27Z pjb: quickload or asdf use ~/.cache/common-lisp/ you could use ~/.cache/clang-${version}-${platform} (remember that home directories may be shared on different systems, so you have to replicate the naming used by quickload/asdf).
2016-01-24T23:01:52Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-24T23:02:03Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:03:24Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-24T23:14:32Z danieli quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-24T23:18:14Z broken_clock quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-24T23:18:53Z soundobstacle quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-24T23:20:44Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-24T23:23:55Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-24T23:23:59Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:24:00Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-24T23:27:48Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:28:05Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-24T23:29:17Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:29:24Z yiHa joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:31:27Z e joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:32:35Z danieli quit (Changing host)
2016-01-24T23:32:35Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:33:29Z danlentz_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-24T23:35:01Z pseudo_sue: Hey, quick question here: how do I retrieve a docstring set with defparameter? (e.g. (defparameter *foo* 10 "very special number"))
2016-01-24T23:35:30Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-24T23:36:03Z pseudo_sue: I've tried (documentation *foo* 'variable) and so on, but it just throws an error.
2016-01-24T23:36:22Z pillton: '*foo*
2016-01-24T23:36:25Z Bike: (documentation '*foo* 'variable)
2016-01-24T23:36:28Z pseudo_sue: ah!
2016-01-24T23:36:44Z pseudo_sue: well, that's blindingly obvious now that I think about it.
2016-01-24T23:37:14Z pseudo_sue: thanks.
2016-01-24T23:37:21Z Bike: DOCUMENTATION is just a normal function, so it would just look at the value and all
2016-01-24T23:37:30Z pillton: psuedo_sue: Wait until you use '*.
2016-01-24T23:37:31Z pseudo_sue: yeah, I'm kicking myself now.
2016-01-24T23:39:58Z brh joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:40:02Z brh quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-24T23:40:17Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:40:22Z brh joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:40:22Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-24T23:47:17Z hydan is now known as hydan`
2016-01-24T23:49:32Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:50:30Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-24T23:52:03Z coffee joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:52:27Z coffee is now known as Guest30955
2016-01-24T23:53:01Z Guest30955 is now known as coffee_
2016-01-24T23:53:08Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-24T23:56:21Z hydan` quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-24T23:58:44Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-24T23:59:32Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-25T00:02:30Z IAmRasputin quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-25T00:04:21Z codefo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:07:59Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:09:24Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T00:10:08Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T00:12:14Z coffee_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T00:14:35Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T00:15:32Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T00:17:54Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:21:36Z codefo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-25T00:22:53Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:25:39Z ACE_Recliner quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T00:26:00Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:27:04Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:27:20Z Administrator is now known as Guest91896
2016-01-25T00:28:12Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T00:29:26Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T00:35:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T00:38:18Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:38:25Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T00:43:05Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:48:43Z Kundry_W` joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:49:16Z malice: Hello! Is it a bad idea to add keys to hash table while iterating over it?
2016-01-25T00:50:25Z Kundry_W` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T00:50:25Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T00:51:13Z Bike: yeah, it's breaking th erules.
2016-01-25T00:51:16Z Bike: clhs 3.6
2016-01-25T00:51:16Z specbot: Traversal Rules and Side Effects: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_f.htm
2016-01-25T00:51:27Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:51:37Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T00:53:55Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T00:58:35Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T01:07:45Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: Strong, menos tendências homicidas por favor)
2016-01-25T01:09:48Z Guest37869 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T01:13:44Z yeticry joined #lisp
2016-01-25T01:16:35Z yeticry_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T01:17:06Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T01:23:10Z Guest91896 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T01:28:02Z kartik quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T01:33:26Z brh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T01:33:51Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T01:35:58Z pseudo_sue: hey, I'm having a little trouble with compiling a standalone binary from sbcl. Everything seems to work, except for one function that makes use of (read) -- a sort of crude UI menu.
2016-01-25T01:36:24Z pseudo_sue: Is this an issue with save-lisp-and-die compiled binaries? is there some obvious problem I'm overlooking?
2016-01-25T01:38:09Z Bike: What is the problem exactly?
2016-01-25T01:40:06Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T01:41:01Z pseudo_sue: The compiled binary seems to just hang there after receiving input fed to one of its (read) calls.
2016-01-25T01:41:26Z pseudo_sue: Everything runs smoothly when run from within a repl session (either slime or just the plain old sbcl repl).
2016-01-25T01:42:48Z lisper29 quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-25T01:43:04Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T01:43:23Z nzambe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T01:43:35Z Bike: might be input buffering.
2016-01-25T01:44:42Z Bike: try throwing in some clear-input calls, i think?
2016-01-25T01:45:12Z vxxe_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T01:45:21Z vxxe joined #lisp
2016-01-25T01:45:29Z pseudo_sue: okay, I'll look into that. is that the sort of thing that would normally be handled by the repl?
2016-01-25T01:45:52Z Bike: i would think so, yes.
2016-01-25T01:46:23Z pseudo_sue: that seems to fit. it didn't seem like it was crashing at all. just sitting there, unamused by the input.
2016-01-25T01:46:49Z pseudo_sue: reading the clear-input api now. thanks again. I'll swing by later to let you know if it works.
2016-01-25T01:49:16Z Sucks quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T01:49:41Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T01:50:24Z brh joined #lisp
2016-01-25T01:52:07Z pillton: Also consider using READ-PRESERVING-WHITESPACE.
2016-01-25T01:52:24Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-25T01:53:19Z pseudo_sue: okay, on closer inspection the problem is more specific than I'd thought. The menu I set up expects either integer or symbol input. In the repl it reads both fine, but in standalone binary it fails to recognize symbols (it won't evaluate an input of Q as eq to 'Q anymore)
2016-01-25T01:53:40Z pseudo_sue: thanks for the suggestion, pillton, but whitespace doesn't even come up here.
2016-01-25T01:53:40Z pillton: Oh. Check that *package* has been set correctly.
2016-01-25T01:54:35Z pseudo_sue: hm. okay, if I Ctrl-C into the debugger (in the binary), *package* turns up "COMMON-LISP USER" (instead of the one I'd expected to find there).
2016-01-25T01:54:59Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T01:56:21Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-25T01:56:46Z Administrator is now known as Guest2046
2016-01-25T01:57:35Z Bike: How strange. Do you bind it in the function?
2016-01-25T01:57:55Z pseudo_sue: bind what, exactly?
2016-01-25T01:58:27Z Bike: *package*
2016-01-25T01:58:40Z pseudo_sue: Nope.
2016-01-25T01:59:49Z Bike: well, try that. can't do any harm.
2016-01-25T01:59:57Z pseudo_sue: Here's what the function looks like, btw. http://paste.pound-python.org/show/awyLuUhHhgQ1fmq05ba0/
2016-01-25T02:00:12Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T02:00:12Z pseudo_sue: you mean to just have something like (let ((*package*)) ... ?
2016-01-25T02:00:40Z moei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T02:00:42Z Bike: Yeah. Well, bind *package* to whatever you want the symbols to be read in, of course.
2016-01-25T02:01:14Z pseudo_sue: ok, I'll fiddle with that.
2016-01-25T02:01:17Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:03:26Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:05:26Z Fleurety quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T02:06:08Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T02:07:56Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T02:08:36Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:08:41Z lisper29 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T02:08:48Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:08:59Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:09:55Z pseudo_sue: (re: the snippet posted, i went and pasted it mid-edit. originally, it just had (eq n 'q), etc.
2016-01-25T02:10:19Z pseudo_sue: (so ignore the obvious gaffs like forgotten quotes in some bits)
2016-01-25T02:11:10Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:12:13Z jackshyt joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:13:56Z pseudo_sue: problem solved. it was a package-related issue, and I got around it by just using keywords instead of symbols for user input. the menu's just a crude front end to a genetic algo programme I'm writing, to spare someone from interacting with it through the REPL, as I've been doing.
2016-01-25T02:14:06Z Bike: cool.
2016-01-25T02:14:06Z pseudo_sue: thanks, Bike.
2016-01-25T02:17:05Z malice left #lisp
2016-01-25T02:17:09Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-25T02:17:28Z pseudo_sue: this is nice. it's really satisfying watching this thing tear along at top speed, now.
2016-01-25T02:18:15Z Fleurety quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-25T02:19:52Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:20:50Z frewtc4ke joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:22:43Z Fleurety quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-25T02:24:03Z smokeink_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:24:07Z smokeink quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T02:25:59Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:29:46Z pillton: psuedo_sue: You should get in the habit of binding reader/printer variables when using them for I/O.
2016-01-25T02:29:55Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:30:15Z pillton: clhs with-standard-io-syntax
2016-01-25T02:30:15Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_std_.htm
2016-01-25T02:30:20Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-25T02:30:21Z pillton: clhs *read-eval*
2016-01-25T02:30:22Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_eva.htm
2016-01-25T02:35:14Z aap joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:36:23Z pseudo_sue: Thanks, pillton. This is actually the first time I needed to worry about input from a user. I'll look into that.
2016-01-25T02:37:06Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:39:20Z aap_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T02:41:15Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-25T02:41:56Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:43:24Z yvm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T02:44:00Z brh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T02:45:07Z Fleurety quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-25T02:45:55Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:47:51Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:48:15Z test1600 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T02:48:16Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:48:25Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:49:27Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T02:50:24Z brh joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:51:30Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-25T02:52:06Z frewtc4ke left #lisp
2016-01-25T02:53:03Z hydan is now known as hydan`
2016-01-25T02:53:37Z pseudo_sue: well, there we go. my first ever (post-hello-world) lisp programme. far from finished, messy, and amateurish, but it works. https://github.com/ObliviaSimplex/genetic-exercises/tree/master/genetic-linear
2016-01-25T02:54:23Z pseudo_sue: thanks for all the help, #lisp.
2016-01-25T02:54:34Z Bike: is 'linear' short for 'linear classifier' here? that's a new one for me.
2016-01-25T02:54:46Z pseudo_sue: linear's short for "linear genetic programming".
2016-01-25T02:54:58Z pseudo_sue: it's meant to be in contrast to tree-based gp
2016-01-25T02:55:26Z Bike: hm. i see. strange stuff.
2016-01-25T02:55:46Z pseudo_sue: basically, what it comes down to is that you're evolving bitvectors of machine code for a virtual, register-based machine, instead of functional trees.
2016-01-25T02:55:47Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T02:55:55Z pseudo_sue: (a la koza)
2016-01-25T02:57:27Z pseudo_sue: i figured it'd be a great excuse to start getting serious with CL, and be as functional as I want to be without making some of the essentially imperative bits of this algorithm pointlessly awkward.
2016-01-25T02:57:55Z pseudo_sue: (it was a toss up between CL and Clojure for me, for a while)
2016-01-25T02:58:40Z pseudo_sue: (but, as much as I like the idea of FP, it kind of irks me how Clojure forces your hand in that direction. I could see that being as irritating as Java's compulsory OO in 10 yrs time.)
2016-01-25T03:00:31Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T03:02:54Z brh quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T03:10:45Z jason_m quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T03:20:01Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-25T03:21:13Z loke_: Hello Lisp!
2016-01-25T03:26:08Z porky11 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T03:29:47Z fewdea: Hey all, I'm using postmodern to create my db tables. I don't think i'm able to include all necessary options in the class definition, for instance, an index on my serial column. so I execute the query to create the table, and then another query to add the column. return value for a successful first query is 0, otherwise an error is thrown. I don't want to execute the second query if the first failed. what is the preferred method of ha
2016-01-25T03:29:48Z fewdea: ndling this situation?
2016-01-25T03:33:10Z fewdea: maybe that's a dumb question. how could the second query execute if the first throws an error? I think what I meant was how do I roll back the first query if the second fails? can I wrap these in a transaction?
2016-01-25T03:33:28Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-25T03:34:47Z brh joined #lisp
2016-01-25T03:38:35Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-25T03:41:37Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T03:48:06Z fewdea: yeah, nevermind. used 'with-transaction'. sorry, thanks. *hides*
2016-01-25T03:56:20Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T03:56:31Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T03:58:14Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-25T04:00:15Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T04:01:15Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T04:06:56Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T04:25:10Z fewdea: oh shit. this is #lisp, not #clnoobs ... sorry! *hides again*
2016-01-25T04:27:30Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T04:35:18Z Guest2046 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T04:41:15Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-25T04:41:39Z Administrator is now known as Guest90028
2016-01-25T04:48:41Z MBstream quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T04:49:41Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-25T04:50:20Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-25T04:53:26Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T04:55:29Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-25T04:57:19Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T04:58:43Z bolichep quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-25T05:02:28Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T05:03:08Z MBstream joined #lisp
2016-01-25T05:13:02Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-25T05:13:03Z ukari quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T05:13:16Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-25T05:13:19Z jackshyt quit (Quit: Smell ya later)
2016-01-25T05:18:30Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-25T05:18:37Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-25T05:20:35Z Zhivago: s/morning/news/
2016-01-25T05:20:38Z holycow waves
2016-01-25T05:22:27Z beach: Zhivago: What's the good news?
2016-01-25T05:23:39Z Zhivago: Whatever you've been doing, hopefully.
2016-01-25T05:27:44Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnigth)
2016-01-25T05:28:07Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-25T05:30:15Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T05:30:48Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-25T05:31:14Z yiHa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T05:36:05Z Fleurety quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T05:36:26Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-25T05:39:33Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T05:45:45Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T05:46:12Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-25T05:46:32Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T05:52:23Z ukari quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T05:53:35Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-25T05:58:01Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T06:02:35Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T06:03:23Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-25T06:12:22Z sulky quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T06:19:17Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-25T06:22:40Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T06:26:17Z brh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T06:27:42Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-25T06:29:02Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-25T06:29:05Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T06:31:34Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-25T06:38:13Z wz1000 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T06:41:37Z clintm quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-25T06:50:49Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-25T06:50:50Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-25T06:55:35Z Xach__ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T06:56:04Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T06:59:06Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T07:00:49Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:05:19Z ACow_Adonis joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:07:42Z jeaye quit (Quit: server migration)
2016-01-25T07:09:47Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T07:12:51Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:16:04Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:18:28Z codefo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:24:15Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T07:26:50Z omilu joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:28:09Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T07:28:35Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T07:32:35Z wooden_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T07:33:19Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:34:38Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:34:44Z space_otter joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:35:53Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T07:37:46Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:38:20Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:40:07Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:41:11Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T07:42:11Z defmacro joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:42:50Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T07:45:53Z ACow_Adonis quit
2016-01-25T07:47:07Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:50:21Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T07:50:35Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T07:51:57Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:52:26Z defmacro quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-25T07:53:00Z Passer joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:53:33Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:54:35Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T07:56:33Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:57:02Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:58:25Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:58:42Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-25T07:58:47Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T07:59:25Z cadadar_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:00:02Z Lycurgus quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, etc.)
2016-01-25T08:01:30Z cadadar_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-25T08:01:31Z jeaye joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:01:56Z jeaye quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-25T08:03:42Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:03:51Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:03:54Z clintm quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T08:03:54Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:03:54Z clintm quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T08:03:54Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:04:13Z cadadar_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:11:28Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T08:11:44Z salva joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:12:52Z cxpp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T08:13:25Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-25T08:14:02Z quazimodo quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-25T08:14:49Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:15:01Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:15:40Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:15:48Z MBstream quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T08:25:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:30:40Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:33:27Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:37:53Z cadadar_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T08:40:14Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T08:43:16Z cadadar_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:47:11Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:47:19Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:50:21Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:50:59Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:53:34Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:54:44Z anti-freeze joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:55:05Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T08:55:24Z anti-freeze quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-25T08:56:32Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T08:58:33Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-25T08:59:13Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:00:02Z codefo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-25T09:00:02Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:00:48Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T09:02:34Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:05:05Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:06:10Z codefo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:07:40Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:12:58Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:14:48Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:15:02Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:15:35Z shka: hi
2016-01-25T09:15:46Z shka: what are opinions around here on series package?
2016-01-25T09:16:05Z shka: i'm desperatly trying to do something with need of writting loops
2016-01-25T09:16:35Z shka: i tried to implemenet proxy class for vector that can do stuff like limiting range
2016-01-25T09:16:55Z shka: but it turned out to be so slow that I gave up on this
2016-01-25T09:17:18Z loke_: shka: What do you mean "with need of writting loops"?
2016-01-25T09:17:26Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:17:50Z shka: i just don't want to write loops for common tasks like: copy these range from here to here
2016-01-25T09:17:58Z shka: *this
2016-01-25T09:18:30Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:18:38Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:18:46Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:18:47Z shka: or: set elements starting with index and ending on to nil
2016-01-25T09:18:50Z gaya- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T09:19:00Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:19:10Z shka: basicly i want to avoid iterating over vectors
2016-01-25T09:20:05Z shka: so, series seems to be acceptable answer
2016-01-25T09:20:17Z cibs joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:20:22Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:22:02Z Passer quit
2016-01-25T09:23:04Z Cymew: Do what you need for the tast at hand. Use LOOP, DO, recursion or MAPping.
2016-01-25T09:23:14Z Cymew: Sorry, "task at hand".
2016-01-25T09:25:18Z mdemont quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T09:25:33Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:25:51Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:27:13Z shka: Cymew: i really like map and reduce, but sometimes i care about getting maximum speed
2016-01-25T09:28:10Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:28:21Z jackdaniel: why do you think map/reduce are slow? o_O
2016-01-25T09:28:59Z jackdaniel: and that series will outperform these native constructs?
2016-01-25T09:29:05Z loke_: shka: And why would you think LOOP is slow? (it's the fastest alternative unless you want to do something multuithreaded)
2016-01-25T09:29:06Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:29:29Z loke_: Series is crazy slow. Which, I presume, is one reason no one uses them.
2016-01-25T09:30:44Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-25T09:31:25Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:31:38Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:32:25Z shka: jackdaniel: just measured
2016-01-25T09:32:38Z jackdaniel: share or never happened ;-)
2016-01-25T09:32:44Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:32:46Z shka: please, remind me to not talk shit before benchmarking
2016-01-25T09:32:52Z shka: next time i will do it
2016-01-25T09:32:54Z shka: :/
2016-01-25T09:33:14Z jackdaniel: oh :p
2016-01-25T09:33:20Z shka: since map-into on 50 000 elements vector is just as fast as loop
2016-01-25T09:33:32Z shka: i feel so stupid
2016-01-25T09:33:49Z shka: loke_: loop is not slow
2016-01-25T09:33:54Z shka: i just don't like looping
2016-01-25T09:33:57Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:34:01Z jackdaniel: what if I tell you, that map* are often compiled into loops? ;]
2016-01-25T09:34:11Z shka: but, but!
2016-01-25T09:34:18Z loke_: shka: Loop is awesome. The most clear and readable looping construct of any language.
2016-01-25T09:34:19Z shka: THEY STILL HAVE TO CALL LAMBDA
2016-01-25T09:34:23Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:34:37Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:34:40Z shka: loke_: sure, I just don't like to write loops in any language
2016-01-25T09:34:46Z shka: it is just difficult to read
2016-01-25T09:34:55Z jackdaniel: loke_: arguably ;)
2016-01-25T09:34:58Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:35:44Z dim: if any SBCL guys are in the room, https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/issues/327 is another case of "Heap exhausted, game over"
2016-01-25T09:37:23Z jackdaniel: shka: http://paste.lisp.org/display/305838 http://paste.lisp.org/display/305839
2016-01-25T09:37:38Z jackdaniel: (mainly the latter)
2016-01-25T09:38:12Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:40:46Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:41:02Z Guest90028 quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-25T09:41:13Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T09:41:21Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:41:45Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:42:23Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-25T09:43:12Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:43:24Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:43:36Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:44:37Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-25T09:45:25Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:46:47Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-25T09:47:39Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:48:02Z p_l: dim: hey, any prospects on pgloader having postgres as input source?
2016-01-25T09:48:03Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:48:38Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T09:48:57Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-25T09:50:46Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:50:52Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:50:52Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T09:50:52Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:51:36Z nostoi joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:52:00Z shka: ok guys
2016-01-25T09:52:04Z shka: see you later
2016-01-25T09:52:09Z shka: happy mapping!
2016-01-25T09:52:15Z shka quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-25T09:54:26Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:54:48Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T09:59:06Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T09:59:11Z dim: p_l: well you're about the first to ask about that, IIRC
2016-01-25T10:00:00Z easye joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:00:20Z dim: p_l: I though about adding a PG custom format dump source, but failed to find the time and energy to write a parser for the binary format there ; it would be interesting to load just a table from the dump while renaming it or restoring it into another schema, etc
2016-01-25T10:00:39Z dim: p_l: do you have a use case for pgloader with PostgreSQL as input?
2016-01-25T10:01:13Z dim: usually `copy out | copy in` or postgres_fdw are much better approach
2016-01-25T10:02:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-25T10:05:44Z p_l: dim: ETL between two databases of different schema and field types
2016-01-25T10:09:10Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:10:50Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:11:13Z dim: I would use postgres_fdw in that case
2016-01-25T10:11:42Z dim: you can define a source as a query to be run rather than a table, or you can also define a set of views on the source database and copy over the FDW the data from the view
2016-01-25T10:11:45Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-25T10:11:50Z dim: well the data from selecting against the view
2016-01-25T10:12:27Z dim: define the view, then the fdw that maps against the view, then your ETL is just: insert into target.table select * from source_fdw.exported_view;
2016-01-25T10:12:30Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:13:18Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:13:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T10:13:48Z mdemont quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T10:21:20Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:21:48Z nostoi quit (Quit: Verlassend.)
2016-01-25T10:22:23Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:24:08Z arcane-methods joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:25:03Z arcane-methods quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-25T10:28:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:28:31Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T10:28:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:28:35Z p_l: dim: maybe with a bunch of custom functions to convert types it would work
2016-01-25T10:29:45Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:31:53Z hydan` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T10:34:59Z dim: typically those custom functions are easy to reduce to SQL expressions, so they are part of the view definition
2016-01-25T10:35:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T10:35:52Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:38:44Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-25T10:43:00Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T10:45:10Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T10:46:29Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:47:38Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:47:38Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T10:47:38Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:47:45Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:50:28Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:51:11Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:52:55Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T10:55:27Z Munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T10:56:06Z strcmp1 quit (Quit: peace)
2016-01-25T10:56:32Z knicklux_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:56:33Z knicklux__ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:56:38Z knicklux_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T10:57:12Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T10:58:13Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-25T10:59:47Z knobo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:00:36Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T11:01:16Z knicklux__ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-25T11:03:39Z przl quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T11:03:41Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:07:58Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T11:11:12Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:11:53Z clintm quit
2016-01-25T11:12:05Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T11:12:41Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:13:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T11:18:41Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:18:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T11:18:41Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:22:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T11:23:00Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:31:35Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:40:19Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:40:19Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T11:40:19Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:40:30Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T11:45:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T11:46:15Z mau joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:48:20Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T11:49:05Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-25T11:54:46Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:55:47Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:55:47Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T11:55:47Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T11:58:45Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:01:36Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:02:30Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:03:18Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:03:28Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:05:02Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:05:28Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:05:29Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:08:09Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:08:23Z hydan quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-25T12:08:36Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:10:20Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:10:30Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:12:55Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:16:20Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-25T12:17:11Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:23:54Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:24:42Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:25:23Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:25:31Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:25:35Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:26:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:28:19Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:33:03Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:35:53Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:36:13Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:36:26Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:51:40Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:53:43Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:53:43Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T12:53:43Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:55:00Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:57:00Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T12:57:38Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T12:59:24Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:00:36Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:01:56Z UtkarshRay quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-25T13:02:05Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:02:58Z Whymind quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T13:03:50Z Whymind joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:05:05Z JitanRo quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-25T13:05:10Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T13:07:53Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:12:16Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T13:16:47Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T13:17:58Z yvm joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:19:23Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T13:29:05Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T13:32:40Z ggole__ is now known as ggole
2016-01-25T13:32:45Z sy joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:36:42Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:40:13Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:44:40Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:49:13Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-25T13:52:18Z FreeBird_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T13:54:02Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T14:02:40Z NhanH quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-25T14:05:36Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T14:05:55Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:09:11Z yvm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T14:13:05Z codefo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-25T14:14:15Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T14:15:38Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:16:21Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:17:47Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T14:19:54Z phoe_krk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:20:38Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T14:20:38Z phoe_krk_ is now known as phoe_krk
2016-01-25T14:20:46Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:24:26Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T14:25:00Z rebcabin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:27:53Z yvm joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:28:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T14:33:40Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:34:33Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:34:38Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:35:13Z MBstream joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:36:28Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:37:46Z yiHa joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:39:16Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:39:42Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T14:40:51Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:42:33Z phoe_krk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:43:18Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T14:43:18Z phoe_krk_ is now known as phoe_krk
2016-01-25T14:43:54Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:44:46Z nzambe joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:45:47Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:47:35Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T14:53:46Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:53:54Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:54:53Z Heranort: is it possible to make the DOLIST macro out of DO?
2016-01-25T14:55:30Z jackdaniel: Heranort: you mean - define dolist macro in terms of do?
2016-01-25T14:55:34Z Heranort: yeah
2016-01-25T14:55:36Z jackdaniel: yes, it's possible
2016-01-25T14:55:47Z Heranort: i don't know how to define the step form of DO.
2016-01-25T14:55:55Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:55:55Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T14:55:55Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T14:57:02Z jackdaniel: Heranort: something like (do* (((list orig-list (cdr list)) (elt (car list) (car list))) ((endp list) 'done) …)
2016-01-25T14:57:55Z jackdaniel: instead of done you may return optional RESULT (regarding implementing dolist)
2016-01-25T14:58:01Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T15:00:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T15:00:28Z Heranort: oh, yeah, that is to keep a list in the DO cycle, consecutively select the CDR of that list.
2016-01-25T15:01:00Z jackdaniel: yes, and elt is set to the list car
2016-01-25T15:02:16Z Heranort: but i'm imaging an easier expression, like (do ((x (car list) (*something that changes x to the next  element of the list*)) ...)
2016-01-25T15:02:31Z Nikotiin` joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:02:41Z Nikotiin` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T15:02:41Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T15:02:57Z Heranort: and i cannot find a function that can accomplish the *something...* procedure.
2016-01-25T15:03:03Z moore33: That would not be easier in the sense of clearer.
2016-01-25T15:03:16Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:03:16Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T15:03:16Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:03:23Z jackdaniel: nope, it's impossible to iterate over list without having this list. You may wrap this with a macro
2016-01-25T15:03:26Z H4ns: the clearest thing would be to avoid DO in the first place ÖD
2016-01-25T15:03:31Z jackdaniel: and essentailly dolist does just that
2016-01-25T15:03:34Z moore33: yes
2016-01-25T15:04:08Z Wojciech_K quit (Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше))
2016-01-25T15:04:19Z Heranort: yeah. maybe my mind has been poisoned by C, where i can simply use a NODE->NEXT pointer to do this.
2016-01-25T15:04:23Z jackdaniel: hrm, do is very useful construct - such opinion isn't wighty
2016-01-25T15:04:32Z jackdaniel: weighty°
2016-01-25T15:04:47Z moore33: I go directly to LOOP without passing GO :)
2016-01-25T15:05:02Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T15:05:12Z Xach__: Heranort: embedding linked list structure into data structures is not all that popular in lisp
2016-01-25T15:05:13Z jackdaniel: Heranort: you may define symbol-macro, where you define *x as (car x)
2016-01-25T15:05:45Z Heranort: jackdaniel: exactly!
2016-01-25T15:06:04Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:06:04Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-25T15:06:04Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T15:06:04Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:06:06Z jackdaniel: it's not cleaner though. dolist is cleanest
2016-01-25T15:06:13Z jackdaniel: for this exact thing (:
2016-01-25T15:06:28Z jackdaniel: or loop for some
2016-01-25T15:06:43Z smokeink_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T15:07:11Z Heranort: Xach__: well i don't have much experience in lisp, and i often use lists to do my job. well what
2016-01-25T15:07:16Z sulky joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:07:30Z Heranort: Xach__: what's your opinion? using closure,or anything?
2016-01-25T15:08:10Z jackdaniel: using lists is OK, just embedding them in a structure is uncommon (unless I misunderstood)
2016-01-25T15:08:16Z H4ns: Heranort: we hang stuff _off_ lists rather than making the linking itself be part off stuff.
2016-01-25T15:09:26Z BitPuffin is now known as niffuPtiB
2016-01-25T15:09:30Z Heranort: H4ns: got that!
2016-01-25T15:10:06Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T15:10:37Z Xach__: Heranort: my opinion about what?
2016-01-25T15:10:41Z Heranort: seems i'm still on the correct rail :)
2016-01-25T15:11:25Z Heranort: Xach__: ah, about how you use lists with data structures :D
2016-01-25T15:11:49Z Xach__: Heranort: you use conses as singly-linked lists.
2016-01-25T15:11:54Z moore33: Heranort: It's a completely different mindset in Lisp.
2016-01-25T15:12:08Z Xach__: then use loop, or dolist, or map<foo> to go over the elements.
2016-01-25T15:12:36Z Xach__: or tagbody for Maximum Fun
2016-01-25T15:12:46Z Heranort: I've seen that. in most cases i use mapcar.
2016-01-25T15:13:03Z moore33: Heranort: For over half a century Lisp implementations have been optimized to create and access the two-cell list element.
2016-01-25T15:13:10Z Xach__: mapcar is one tool in the toolbox. it's not always the best-stuited.
2016-01-25T15:13:13Z niffuPtiB is now known as avsshCgvO
2016-01-25T15:13:20Z moore33: I like mapc too.
2016-01-25T15:13:30Z moore33: And mapcan :)
2016-01-25T15:14:44Z Heranort: now i truly understand the meaning of that saying:" everyone can understand lisp in three days, except for C programmers, they need a week."
2016-01-25T15:15:08Z Heranort: well C is the first lang i came across in my university.
2016-01-25T15:15:45Z Xach__: I don't think that's very common any more (if it ever was)
2016-01-25T15:16:28Z Heranort: Xach__: the C language?
2016-01-25T15:16:40Z Xach__: Heranort: Learning C first in university
2016-01-25T15:16:46Z Heranort: yeah, in many universities they teach python.
2016-01-25T15:17:26Z Heranort: pfff.....but clearly you can understand more about the lower level of computer learning C.
2016-01-25T15:17:46Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:18:16Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T15:18:16Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:20:10Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:20:43Z avsshCgvO is now known as BitPuffin
2016-01-25T15:26:05Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:26:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T15:26:05Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:26:57Z mdemont quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T15:28:50Z pareidolia: Ahhh. Going over Practical Common Lisp again after a few years' hiatus
2016-01-25T15:31:34Z pareidolia: It strikes me how many function names could be characters in a Sci-Fi fantasy story, favorites so far: TERPRI, RASSOC, MAPCAN, GENSYM
2016-01-25T15:31:45Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:31:58Z flip214: not to forget FORMAT or LOOP
2016-01-25T15:32:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T15:32:06Z Zhivago: You're forgetting or PUSH-NEW and FLOOR.
2016-01-25T15:32:08Z moore33: PRINC
2016-01-25T15:32:20Z Zhivago: Sci-Fi Fantasy stories do not have high standards for names.
2016-01-25T15:32:21Z jackdaniel: (mapcar #'fireball *orcs*)
2016-01-25T15:32:36Z moore33: MULTIPLE-VALUE-SETQ
2016-01-25T15:34:00Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:34:09Z flip214: Y-OR-N-P
2016-01-25T15:34:15Z moore33: You cannot guess the meaning of some functions without just knowing it, or knowing quite a lot of history.
2016-01-25T15:34:40Z splittist: update-instance-for-redefined-class : obviously  a marxist-inspired dystopia
2016-01-25T15:34:42Z moore33: CDADR
2016-01-25T15:34:50Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T15:34:58Z flip214: moore33: up to 4 letters, CDADAR
2016-01-25T15:35:52Z moore33: flip214: I know, but I mean who *does* that today ? :)
2016-01-25T15:36:15Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T15:36:20Z flip214: extraterrestrials, of course. that's why they're called that way, right?
2016-01-25T15:36:39Z pareidolia: (RETURN-FROM OUTER-SPACE)
2016-01-25T15:36:58Z moore33: Seems as good an explanation as any.
2016-01-25T15:38:14Z prohobo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:38:17Z prohobo: hey guys
2016-01-25T15:38:19Z moore33: later
2016-01-25T15:38:24Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-25T15:38:26Z prohobo: what's a good project to get learning lisp with?
2016-01-25T15:39:06Z Warlock[29A] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T15:39:46Z prohobo: nvm
2016-01-25T15:39:54Z prohobo: cliki is good enough
2016-01-25T15:40:01Z pareidolia: To make or to read?
2016-01-25T15:40:27Z prohobo: to make
2016-01-25T15:40:50Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T15:41:13Z splittist: prohobo: Here's one person's list http://metamodular.com/Common-Lisp/suggested-projects.html
2016-01-25T15:41:26Z prohobo: cool, thanks
2016-01-25T15:41:47Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:41:53Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T15:44:35Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2016-01-25T15:45:09Z yvm: Guile Emacs also seems very cool with it's reactive programming abilities. Though, I don't played with it much.
2016-01-25T15:47:18Z prohobo quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2016-01-25T15:58:14Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:02:38Z sy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T16:04:25Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:06:10Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:08:48Z pareidolia: ENOUGH-NAMESTRING lol
2016-01-25T16:12:53Z cadadar_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T16:13:21Z mau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T16:13:23Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:15:37Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:17:44Z Heranort_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T16:19:06Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:21:36Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:21:37Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:21:49Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-25T16:24:22Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T16:25:15Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:25:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:26:25Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:26:29Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:26:45Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:27:22Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:27:47Z sepi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T16:29:45Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:31:22Z Fleurety quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T16:31:29Z Fleurety_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:32:27Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:33:58Z Fleurety_ quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-25T16:35:30Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:35:54Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T16:35:58Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:36:08Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:36:52Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-25T16:36:52Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:36:53Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:37:51Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:38:52Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:39:44Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:41:18Z Fleurety quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:41:43Z Fleurety_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:43:55Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:44:08Z PuercoPop left #lisp
2016-01-25T16:44:22Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:44:23Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:45:27Z Fleurety_ quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-25T16:46:14Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:46:29Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:46:48Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:46:54Z Howling joined #lisp
2016-01-25T16:48:55Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:49:59Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T16:56:19Z voidlily quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T16:59:22Z voidlily joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:08:41Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-25T17:12:09Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T17:12:29Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:14:32Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:14:54Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-25T17:15:08Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:17:45Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T17:20:00Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-25T17:22:07Z mordocai_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:22:35Z mordocai quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-25T17:22:39Z mordocai_ is now known as mordocai
2016-01-25T17:26:25Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:26:30Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T17:28:21Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:32:10Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:32:54Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:33:02Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-25T17:33:26Z mordocai: Evening beach
2016-01-25T17:33:43Z beach: jackdaniel: This is what I have so far: http://metamodular.com/text-annotation.png
2016-01-25T17:34:29Z beach: jackdaniel: I can load a file with a sentence in it, select words, click on some "button" on the left, and the selected words are moved to the right column.
2016-01-25T17:34:59Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-25T17:35:01Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:36:20Z beach: jackdaniel: That's a little more than 200 lines of GUI and another 25 lines for the "model".
2016-01-25T17:38:45Z beach: jackdaniel: And thanks for providing me with this well-needed little distraction.  It reminded me of how good McCLIM is, despite what many people say.
2016-01-25T17:42:48Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T17:43:33Z kopinjol joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:43:58Z kopinjol: Hi
2016-01-25T17:44:18Z kopinjol: I am very new to Lisp!
2016-01-25T17:44:25Z kopinjol: How is everyone?
2016-01-25T17:44:45Z beach: That probably varies from person to person.  There are quite a few here.
2016-01-25T17:44:52Z beach: Welcome to #lisp, though.
2016-01-25T17:45:03Z kopinjol: Thanks :)
2016-01-25T17:45:37Z kopinjol: I have a question about Slime. Sorry to jump right into it!
2016-01-25T17:45:52Z beach: That's what is recommended.  Just go ahead.
2016-01-25T17:46:36Z kopinjol: I tried installing Slime throught marmalade. It got installed. But when I run M-x slime i get this error message:
2016-01-25T17:47:04Z beach: You should install SLIME using Quicklisp.
2016-01-25T17:47:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:47:22Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T17:47:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:47:38Z kopinjol: I see
2016-01-25T17:47:56Z jasom: unfortunately the emacs and lisp sides of slime are very tightly coupled
2016-01-25T17:47:56Z kopinjol: then add the pathname in the .emacs file?
2016-01-25T17:48:01Z jasom: kopinjol: yup
2016-01-25T17:48:10Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:48:22Z kopinjol: i see
2016-01-25T17:48:28Z mordocai: kopinjol: It shows instructions when you install it, see the slime section here https://www.quicklisp.org/beta/
2016-01-25T17:48:29Z kopinjol: i will try that
2016-01-25T17:48:30Z jasom: (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el"))
2016-01-25T17:48:36Z dew3y quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T17:48:42Z jasom: don't forget to remove the marmelade version too
2016-01-25T17:48:42Z dew3y joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:48:59Z kopinjol: mordocai: thanks i will look now.
2016-01-25T17:51:35Z kopinjol: jasom: So the file is called slime-helper.el?
2016-01-25T17:51:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T17:52:26Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:52:55Z beach: kopinjol: Once you install SLIME using Quicklisp, you get instructions from Quicklisp concerning what to add to your .emacs file.
2016-01-25T17:53:11Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:53:20Z kopinjol: I see thanks! Will do that now. Thank you so much people!
2016-01-25T17:53:29Z beach: Anytime!
2016-01-25T17:53:39Z whiteline quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T17:54:29Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:55:54Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:58:46Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:58:47Z william_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:58:50Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T17:58:58Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-25T17:59:38Z beach: Dinner.  I might show up briefly later.
2016-01-25T18:01:16Z william_: so i'm trying to give my boss a set of files that will be the minimum canonical set of source code and infrastructure necessary to rebuild my application from sources, and so far my workflow
2016-01-25T18:01:33Z william_: seems to be, use quicklisp bundle systems to bundle the dependencies,
2016-01-25T18:02:07Z william_: fire up a new image and then load just the bundle, then place the source for my code in the bundle local-projects, then asdf:load it, then save the image out
2016-01-25T18:02:49Z XachX: william_: how's it going?
2016-01-25T18:02:51Z william_: what I then get is the minimum set of files necessary to make modifications to the program and with a repeat of the steps, assuming no new dependencies are needed, should
2016-01-25T18:03:34Z william_: XachX:  So far its done everything I expect it to, I was wondering if there was a way to smash the middle two steps, can i use quicklisp to target my system when it makes the bundle, that way the subsequent
2016-01-25T18:03:56Z william_: fresh image load of bundle.lisp includes my business logic
2016-01-25T18:04:06Z schoppenhauer quit (Quit: Adé)
2016-01-25T18:04:11Z kopinjol: Bye people. It worked. Slime is working now. Thanks again. I will stop by later.
2016-01-25T18:04:34Z kopinjol left #lisp
2016-01-25T18:04:37Z optikalmouse: lol
2016-01-25T18:04:45Z optikalmouse: that was awesome "things work! back to work"
2016-01-25T18:05:00Z william_: and does what I'm doing sound needlessly complicated?
2016-01-25T18:05:21Z william_: is this how you guys tackle similar problems?
2016-01-25T18:05:33Z Xach__: william_: i think you'd have to make a new file that loads bundle.lisp first and then your project
2016-01-25T18:05:46Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-25T18:05:51Z Xach__: william_: i think you're in uncharted territory - there are a zillion potential ways to do it, but few people actually doing it
2016-01-25T18:06:02Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:06:08Z Xach__: william_: i made the bundle feature because i thought it could help with stuff but i'm not sure if there are too many rough edges or not...
2016-01-25T18:06:23Z william_: Xach_: that doesn't seem overly burdensome for now
2016-01-25T18:07:07Z william_: the next problem is that i'm not getting expected behavior of the image when transferred to the new computer, but thats under the normal scope of things I expect to take care of myself lol
2016-01-25T18:07:26Z william_: and honestly the bundle code does the hard work
2016-01-25T18:07:42Z william_: of making this possible, the rest seems to be straightforward.
2016-01-25T18:08:36Z newdan joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:08:54Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:08:54Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-25T18:08:54Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:09:01Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:09:05Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:10:23Z attila_lendvai: luis: how is life? any ETA on reaching the surface? :)
2016-01-25T18:10:56Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:11:03Z przl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:12:09Z Sucks quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:12:46Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:13:47Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:19:37Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:20:18Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:20:26Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:23:56Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:27:45Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:29:57Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-25T18:30:56Z soundobstacle joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:33:22Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:33:27Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:34:49Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:37:35Z pseudo_sue quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-25T18:38:12Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:39:03Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:40:05Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:40:27Z thomas quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-25T18:44:32Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:47:10Z munksgaa1d quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:48:06Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:48:57Z thomas joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:51:09Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:51:45Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-25T18:52:46Z Zotan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T18:53:15Z Zotan joined #lisp
2016-01-25T18:54:10Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:55:02Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:55:34Z technik quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T18:58:12Z technik joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:01:52Z Guest32964 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:04:31Z j_king_ is now known as j_king
2016-01-25T19:04:55Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:05:19Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:08:21Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:09:20Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T19:11:49Z nayki joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:13:34Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:16:02Z teoric joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:18:33Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:22:18Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:23:35Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T19:24:30Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:24:55Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:26:49Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:27:58Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T19:28:12Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:31:07Z NhanH joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:33:01Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:34:43Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T19:39:16Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T19:40:07Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T19:40:33Z teoric quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-25T19:40:42Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:40:59Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:42:51Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:46:26Z lisse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T19:50:29Z Fade: o/
2016-01-25T19:51:40Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-25T19:51:56Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T19:52:08Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:00:31Z circuitCarre joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:01:42Z przl quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-25T20:03:14Z pjb: Bike: more probably, it's output buffering.  Input buffering is not a problem in general. You may want to clear-input if you have to throw away input keyed in before you asked the question, eg. because it's an important question, such as: "Do you agree with these license terms? " You wouldn't want the user to type yes before you've displayed the license terms and asked the question.
2016-01-25T20:03:38Z Bike: the person who asked probably needs to know more than i do
2016-01-25T20:03:41Z pjb: Bike:  but if you don't finish-output, before clear-input and read, you can't hope that the user will see it!
2016-01-25T20:03:53Z Bike: but yes, sounds reasonable
2016-01-25T20:03:55Z pjb: Bike: apparently no, since you weren't able to explain him that.
2016-01-25T20:04:47Z zacharias quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2016-01-25T20:04:57Z pjb: I can't answer all the questions, you have to help me guys!
2016-01-25T20:05:29Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:05:29Z foom quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T20:05:51Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:06:30Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T20:07:46Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:09:25Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:10:08Z pjb: minion: memo for Heranort: (defmacro my-dolist ((var list-expression &optional result-expression) &body body) (let ((vcurrent (gensym))) `(do ((,vcurrent ,lisp-expression (cdr ,vcurrent))) ((null ,vcurrent) ,result-expression) (let  ((,var (car ,vcurrent))) ,@body))))
2016-01-25T20:10:08Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell Heranort when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-25T20:10:39Z pjb: minion: memo for Heranort: s/lisp-expression/list-expression/g
2016-01-25T20:10:39Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell Heranort when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-25T20:11:16Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-25T20:11:21Z Luna joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:11:31Z Luna is now known as luna-is-here
2016-01-25T20:12:33Z pjb: minion: memo for Heranort: (cdr node) = node->next, (car node) = node->data
2016-01-25T20:12:34Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell Heranort when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-25T20:13:45Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:14:33Z ccaffeini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T20:17:15Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:19:24Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-25T20:19:31Z wheelsuc` joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:19:34Z MrWoohoo quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-25T20:19:42Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T20:19:58Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:20:34Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:20:50Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T20:21:26Z dyelar joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:21:28Z ssake joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:24:04Z jasom: okay, madnificent (maintainer of jsown) officially wins the award for fastest a github issue filed by me has ever been responded to (90 seconds).
2016-01-25T20:24:04Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T20:24:05Z lisse_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:24:15Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T20:24:18Z mordocai: lol nice
2016-01-25T20:25:07Z mordocai: jasom: Yeah as far as your issue I believe a lot of libraries have that restriction of only allowing top level arrays/objects and not primitives.
2016-01-25T20:25:17Z flip214: easy if you're in your MUA at that time  ;)
2016-01-25T20:26:16Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:26:51Z jasom: mordocai: I would believe that; like I said, it was an artificial test anyway
2016-01-25T20:27:21Z mordocai: jasom: Yeah
2016-01-25T20:27:23Z jasom: mordocai: and with the real-world data, jsown is only 25% slower than my tnetstring library, which is impressive as tnetstrings are way simpler to parse
2016-01-25T20:27:29Z Howling quit (Quit: :tiuQ)
2016-01-25T20:27:54Z ggole quit
2016-01-25T20:28:14Z circuitCarre quit (Quit: circuitCarre)
2016-01-25T20:29:47Z mordocai: Yeah, nice to have a high performance one around.
2016-01-25T20:30:05Z mordocai: I say this not having tried any other json parsers
2016-01-25T20:34:14Z jasom: mordocai: all of the others were about an order of magnitude slower than jsown
2016-01-25T20:38:32Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:39:33Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:39:34Z PuercoPop: jasom: have you tried jonathan? It claims to be faster than jsown https://github.com/Rudolph-Miller/jonathan
2016-01-25T20:40:04Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-25T20:42:33Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-25T20:43:01Z mordocai: They spelled installation wrong, all faith lost (I googled, can't find that that is a correctly spelling anywhere) :P
2016-01-25T20:43:12Z mordocai doesn't actually care, just found it funny
2016-01-25T20:43:58Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-25T20:45:02Z jasom: PuercoPop: I have not
2016-01-25T20:45:17Z jasom: is there a quickload equivalent to asdf:prepare-op?
2016-01-25T20:45:25Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T20:47:13Z codefo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:49:17Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:50:41Z johnf joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:52:01Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T20:52:08Z _JusSx_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:54:11Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-25T20:54:49Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T20:55:43Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-25T20:56:22Z jasom: hmm, I couldn't find one; the best I can do is to handler-bind missing-component to quickload that component, and then call prepare-op
2016-01-25T20:57:51Z jasom: or rather missing-dependency
2016-01-25T20:58:39Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-25T21:00:24Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-25T21:05:33Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-25T21:06:20Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-25T21:07:43Z codefo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-25T21:10:48Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T21:13:33Z lisse_ quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-25T21:17:26Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T21:17:41Z codefo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T21:17:58Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T21:19:07Z nayki quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T21:26:09Z william_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-25T21:28:41Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-25T21:29:41Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T21:32:21Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T21:33:17Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2016-01-25T21:33:24Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-25T21:34:43Z codefo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-25T21:36:41Z warweasle quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.1)
2016-01-25T21:37:16Z mood: About JSON parsers: I compared jonathan and st-json a while ago. In my (unscientific) test, jonathan was indeed much faster than st-json, but used a LOT more memory
2016-01-25T21:38:34Z jasom: jsown is way faster at aprsing in my tests, but jonathon is way faster at emitting
2016-01-25T21:42:12Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T21:44:34Z test-botil joined #lisp
2016-01-25T21:44:52Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T21:45:49Z jasom: and jonathan is faster than anything I've tried other than jsown (about 2x slower than jsown vs an order of magnitude)
2016-01-25T21:46:09Z test-botil left #lisp
2016-01-25T21:47:16Z jasom: however, jonathan interns keys, and jsown does not (I don't know if I can change from the default for that on either lib)
2016-01-25T21:47:26Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T21:47:57Z jasom: with my tnetstrings library I take a 4x performance hit for interning.
2016-01-25T21:48:54Z jackdaniel: minion: memo for beach: looks great! :) btw, I've started porting McCLIM to ECL and it was very easy, but I've encountered bug in ECL I need to fix first
2016-01-25T21:48:54Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-25T21:48:55Z _JusSx_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-25T21:51:00Z scout quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T21:51:34Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T21:52:34Z PuercoPop: the boon of many libraries to choose from! At least for json
2016-01-25T21:52:59Z jasom: PuercoPop: and a good comparison here: https://sites.google.com/site/sabraonthehill/home/json-libraries
2016-01-25T21:54:27Z PuercoPop: I've read it, I use yason because it is easy to use and extend for when serializing CLOS
2016-01-25T21:54:32Z jasom: I use yason for real-world stuff, since it can so easily be setup to be bijective
2016-01-25T21:55:36Z jasom: If you set both *parse-json-arrays-as-vectors* *parse-json-null-as-keyword* then you have sane handling of just about everything
2016-01-25T21:58:31Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-25T21:58:50Z over joined #lisp
2016-01-25T21:59:27Z jasom: oh, there's one other thing you have to change to emit null as false rather than nil
2016-01-25T21:59:58Z jasom: or you can just leave *parse-json-null-as-keyword* and treat null and false interchangably (which works, but is ugly)
2016-01-25T22:00:03Z dim: mmm, 13: ((FLET SB-UNIX::RUN-HANDLER :IN SB-SYS:ENABLE-INTERRUPT) 13 #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X131FEA48) #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X131FEAB0)) is all about the C-c, right?
2016-01-25T22:00:31Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:01:09Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:02:03Z ahegazipro joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:02:10Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T22:06:56Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:10:26Z Denommus quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-25T22:15:29Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-25T22:16:16Z luna-is-here quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-25T22:20:40Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:21:55Z Guest32964 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T22:22:20Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T22:24:15Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-25T22:25:15Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T22:27:43Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:28:16Z codefo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:30:34Z newdan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T22:31:18Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T22:32:25Z __main__ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:34:07Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:34:13Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:34:33Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T22:34:33Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:35:01Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:35:26Z __main__ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:37:39Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-25T22:38:03Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:39:04Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T22:39:05Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-25T22:41:07Z soundobstacle quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-25T22:43:48Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-25T22:46:24Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:47:01Z sweater is now known as Guest84720
2016-01-25T22:52:46Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-25T22:53:21Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-25T22:57:30Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-25T22:58:55Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T22:59:34Z grindhold quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T23:00:21Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:00:21Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:01:10Z Xach__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:01:12Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:01:21Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:01:39Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:02:02Z norcross joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:02:06Z norcross: ahh it's a wonderful day
2016-01-25T23:02:48Z mordocai: Just rub it in why don't you :P
2016-01-25T23:03:17Z Guest84720 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:07:48Z sweater- joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:08:26Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:08:39Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:10:56Z munksgaa1d quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:13:02Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:14:11Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:14:49Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:17:16Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse)
2016-01-25T23:17:35Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:18:43Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T23:19:06Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:20:41Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:23:30Z lisse_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:23:30Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-25T23:28:26Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:29:10Z sheilong joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:32:04Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:36:42Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:38:27Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-25T23:41:36Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:41:50Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:42:44Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:43:07Z sweater is now known as Guest24730
2016-01-25T23:43:55Z sweater- quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:45:25Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:47:03Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:48:06Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:48:07Z newdan joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:49:00Z jleija quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-25T23:49:35Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:50:06Z Guest24730 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:50:55Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:54:39Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-25T23:56:39Z phax left #lisp
2016-01-25T23:58:04Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-25T23:59:12Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:02:13Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T00:02:49Z jasom: ltk is now on github; lets see if a pull request gets answered where patches sent to the mailing list were ignored
2016-01-26T00:02:59Z jleija quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T00:03:20Z sweater- joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:04:48Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:05:26Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:06:06Z Xach_: woo
2016-01-26T00:06:26Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:06:44Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:06:58Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:10:24Z jasom: I do still prefer the use of ~/ for escaping as it calls out which things are escaped and which aren't directly in the format string, but I won't push that one since it's a big change, and I've only found 3 or 4 escaping bugs
2016-01-26T00:10:32Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:12:38Z jasom: Any thoughts of others on whether (format stream "some ~a command ~a that ~a has ~a ~arguments" arg1 (escape arg2) arg3 arg4) is more error-prone than (format stream "some ~a command ~/ltk:escape/ that ~a has ~a arguments" arg1 arg2 arg3 arg4)
2016-01-26T00:12:44Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:12:52Z jasom: or other reasons to prefer one way over the other?
2016-01-26T00:12:54Z znpy quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T00:12:54Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:13:06Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:13:10Z lisper29 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T00:13:10Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:14:35Z sweater- quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:15:30Z sweater- joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:16:06Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:16:14Z frankenfield joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:16:29Z tristero quit (Quit: tristero)
2016-01-26T00:18:05Z frankenfield left #lisp
2016-01-26T00:18:44Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:22:20Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:23:00Z sweater- quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:24:41Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:25:01Z Guest83687 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:25:49Z tristero joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:27:56Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-26T00:28:17Z codefo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T00:29:57Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:31:10Z ahegazipro quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-26T00:31:22Z sweater- joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:31:39Z Heranort quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T00:32:38Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:36:47Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:37:53Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:38:10Z lisse_ quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T00:38:10Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:39:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:39:15Z sweater- quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:40:47Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:45:34Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T00:45:56Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:46:26Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:47:43Z sweater- joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:48:22Z dwchandler: McCarthy's partner in AI, Marvin Minksy, has died. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/business/marvin-minsky-pioneer-in-artificial-intelligence-dies-at-88.html?_r=0
2016-01-26T00:48:55Z sweater_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:50:14Z ipmonger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T00:50:52Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:51:10Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T00:52:26Z holycow: it is amazing to think that not only an entire generation has already worked on ai types of problems but they also worked on these problems on some amazingly primitive machines by todays standards
2016-01-26T00:52:45Z holycow: either that or i am simply underestimating what could be done on some of that old hardware
2016-01-26T00:53:50Z jasom: holycow: I was chatting with someone who was trying to implement a simple lisp on a microcontroller, and we came to the conclusion that the microcontroller had less ram than the original LISP was implemented on
2016-01-26T00:54:03Z jasom: well substitute core+drum for ram
2016-01-26T00:54:47Z holycow: heh, amazing, right?
2016-01-26T00:56:35Z holycow: speaking of which, i am going to try and see if the arm sbcl port works on this: http://nextthing.co/pages/chip
2016-01-26T00:56:42Z holycow: won't receive mine for a few more months
2016-01-26T00:57:10Z coyo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:57:18Z jasom: holycow: I have one; I'll try it this weekend
2016-01-26T00:57:34Z ipmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:57:39Z ipmonger_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:57:40Z holycow: you do? sweet!
2016-01-26T00:57:51Z holycow: can you tell me how it goes?
2016-01-26T00:57:53Z jasom: sure
2016-01-26T00:58:19Z jasom: are there sbcl arm binaries, or do I need to cross-compile?
2016-01-26T00:58:26Z holycow: nice, you were a backer eh? i'm glad they tracked down the flashing issue
2016-01-26T00:58:49Z holycow: i actually don't know the answer to that, i was going to find out when i got the sbc
2016-01-26T00:59:08Z holycow: it wouldn't be in any of the debian repos, its fairly new
2016-01-26T00:59:09Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-26T00:59:17Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T00:59:20Z holycow: so you will probably have to compile, yes
2016-01-26T00:59:33Z jasom: if there is a clisp in the repos, that can compile sbcl
2016-01-26T01:00:15Z jasom: holycow: or I can just use http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/sbcl/sbcl-1.2.14-armhf-linux-binary.tar.bz2
2016-01-26T01:00:31Z holycow: ah! okay simple enough i guess ... didn't know that existed
2016-01-26T01:01:12Z ryan_vw_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T01:01:42Z ipmonger_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T01:02:44Z holycow: jasom: have you played with the chip yet?
2016-01-26T01:10:02Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-26T01:10:51Z sheilong quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-26T01:13:40Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T01:18:05Z emaczen joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:19:01Z jasom: holycow: just a little bit
2016-01-26T01:19:10Z jasom: have 4 kids so not a lot of spare time
2016-01-26T01:19:35Z holycow: oh wow
2016-01-26T01:19:49Z sheilong joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:20:19Z holycow: must be challenging to squeeze in some hobby time
2016-01-26T01:20:58Z emaczen: I'm failing a "no-primary-method" condition -- for this type, the only applicable methods for this type are two around methods.
2016-01-26T01:21:33Z emaczen: I was under the impression that around methods let you bypass the primary method essentially (but maybe I still need to have it defined?)
2016-01-26T01:22:55Z Zhivago: It's made available to them to call, which they may decline to do, iirc.
2016-01-26T01:23:06Z Zhivago: But that implies that it exists.
2016-01-26T01:23:35Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:24:03Z emaczen: Yeah, I made a method for the most general type that is essentially a default-case
2016-01-26T01:24:29Z emaczen: I was wondering if anybody happened to know specifically though
2016-01-26T01:24:30Z Zhivago: Or you could make it signal an error.
2016-01-26T01:24:40Z p_l: emaczen: an around method needs something to be wrwpped around, even if in the end you don't call the wrapped method
2016-01-26T01:24:48Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:24:56Z emaczen: p_l: That settles it! Thanks.
2016-01-26T01:25:42Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T01:28:14Z nowhere_man quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T01:28:19Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T01:28:31Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:30:12Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T01:31:28Z yiHa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T01:36:47Z justicefries left #lisp
2016-01-26T01:38:11Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:39:35Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:42:48Z porky11 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T01:45:20Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T01:48:26Z sheilong quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-26T01:50:31Z AJavaIdiot_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:51:23Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-26T01:51:58Z AJavaIdiot quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T01:52:43Z killmaster quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T01:53:17Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:53:25Z killmaster joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:53:36Z test1600 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T01:53:37Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:54:13Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:54:14Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-26T01:54:52Z AJavaIdiot_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T02:00:18Z sweater- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T02:02:12Z killmaster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:03:26Z killmaster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T02:03:28Z killmaster_ is now known as killmaster
2016-01-26T02:05:13Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:05:26Z killmaster quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T02:06:12Z lisse quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T02:07:24Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:11:57Z Passer joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:13:30Z emacsoma` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T02:13:44Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-26T02:16:00Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:16:29Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T02:19:03Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:25:58Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:26:49Z arbscht joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:27:28Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:34:02Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:34:48Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T02:36:47Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:37:18Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T02:50:11Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:57:09Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-26T02:58:45Z Passer quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T02:59:38Z Passer joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:04:56Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:04:58Z bungoman joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:14:36Z mozart_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:16:18Z hydan quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T03:17:29Z nullman joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:17:55Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:21:24Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:34:02Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:38:24Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-26T03:45:44Z clintm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T03:48:34Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:48:40Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-26T03:48:41Z minion: beach, memo from jackdaniel: looks great! :) btw, I've started porting McCLIM to ECL and it was very easy, but I've encountered bug in ECL I need to fix first
2016-01-26T03:48:46Z newdan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T03:53:36Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T03:55:42Z bungoman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T03:55:48Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T03:55:57Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T03:56:01Z yeticry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T03:56:16Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:56:18Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T03:56:41Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-26T03:56:54Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:13:00Z test1600: Hi all
2016-01-26T04:13:45Z beach: Hello test1600.
2016-01-26T04:17:18Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:19:48Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:21:05Z rebcabin quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-26T04:22:34Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-26T04:23:13Z Fare joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:23:59Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T04:25:22Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:26:24Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T04:26:41Z mprelude quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-26T04:33:36Z norcross is now known as belabrg
2016-01-26T04:33:43Z belabrg is now known as besabrg
2016-01-26T04:34:46Z Guest83687 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T04:36:21Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T04:37:16Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:37:40Z Administrator is now known as Guest76602
2016-01-26T04:38:00Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T04:40:33Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:42:12Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T04:44:37Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:48:30Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-26T04:52:20Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-26T04:53:48Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:54:03Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:55:31Z bungoman joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:56:08Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:56:28Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:56:49Z Warlock[29A] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T04:58:28Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-26T04:58:38Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T05:00:15Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-26T05:02:51Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-26T05:04:31Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-26T05:11:38Z bungoman quit
2016-01-26T05:17:40Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T05:23:51Z wheelsuc` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-26T05:23:54Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T05:28:26Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T05:30:08Z oleo_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T05:35:19Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T05:35:32Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-26T05:36:24Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2016-01-26T05:38:54Z beach: jackdaniel: I put the code here: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Text-annotation so that you can try it out and have a look at it yourself.
2016-01-26T05:40:51Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T05:44:28Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-26T05:44:33Z ccaffeini joined #lisp
2016-01-26T05:45:12Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T05:50:29Z drmeister: Hi everyone.  Hi beach.
2016-01-26T05:50:45Z beach: Hi drmeister.  What's up?
2016-01-26T05:50:54Z drmeister: I've been writing grant proposals and building molecules with Cando - it's working really nicely.
2016-01-26T05:51:05Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T05:51:21Z beach: Great!  What are the chances of getting funding?
2016-01-26T05:51:25Z drmeister: The Cleavir generated code is really stable and runs fast enough to get work done.
2016-01-26T05:51:42Z drmeister: Who knows.  I'm putting a lot of irons in the fire.
2016-01-26T05:53:24Z drmeister: re: ELS - there's a good chance I'll be there.   I'm beating on my IP office to let me release Cando in time for a paper.
2016-01-26T05:53:26Z beach: I have been asked to give more talks to the company where my nephew works, so I might do some of that in the next few months, in addition to writing papers for ELS.
2016-01-26T05:53:38Z beach: Oh, that's great!
2016-01-26T05:54:31Z drmeister: I'm not going to officially release it because it still needs a lot of work but for the purpose of a paper is it sufficient that it be accessible via github?
2016-01-26T05:54:45Z cyberlard joined #lisp
2016-01-26T05:55:15Z beach: I wold certainly not reject a paper just because it needs work.
2016-01-26T05:55:16Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-26T05:55:42Z beach: ... er, just because the software the paper describes needs work.
2016-01-26T05:56:26Z drmeister: By work I mean it needs more documentation and some of the API needs work.
2016-01-26T05:56:40Z beach: I maintain what I said.
2016-01-26T05:56:45Z beach: Is that helpful?
2016-01-26T05:57:25Z beach: ELS is an academic venue.  The things described need to be available for inspection (in my opinion) but they don't need to be finished products.
2016-01-26T05:59:01Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-26T05:59:11Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2016-01-26T05:59:40Z drmeister: Ok, I just need to get my IP office to make it available for inspection - which will mean publically available on github.
2016-01-26T06:00:51Z beach: drmeister: Those are my personal opinions, though.  I can give no guarantees about what some other referee might think.
2016-01-26T06:01:33Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp
2016-01-26T06:01:51Z drmeister: Sure
2016-01-26T06:02:36Z beach: Luckily, the program chair person is a very reasonable one. :)
2016-01-26T06:03:13Z drmeister: Ok, I better get to bed, it's getting late here.
2016-01-26T06:03:20Z drmeister: Thanks for the feedback.
2016-01-26T06:03:28Z beach: Sleep well.
2016-01-26T06:04:54Z ipmonger_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T06:06:05Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-26T06:08:20Z ipmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T06:12:22Z besabrg quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-26T06:19:20Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-26T06:22:06Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-26T06:24:57Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T06:29:36Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T06:31:24Z ccaffeini quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T06:35:42Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T06:39:41Z smokeink quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T06:41:24Z ccaffeini joined #lisp
2016-01-26T06:44:25Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-26T06:51:15Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-26T06:55:35Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T06:56:18Z Fare: bonjour
2016-01-26T06:56:20Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:00:39Z beach: Hello Fare.
2016-01-26T07:01:18Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:01:57Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:02:04Z voidlily_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:02:55Z voidlily quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T07:05:51Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:06:12Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-26T07:07:49Z contrapunctus: o/
2016-01-26T07:08:14Z beach: Hello contrapunctus.
2016-01-26T07:08:22Z contrapunctus: hey, beach
2016-01-26T07:08:58Z contrapunctus: beach: did you see this? https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/40u3cn/the_3l_project_building_an_operating_system_from/
2016-01-26T07:10:01Z beach: I don't think I saw it.  Thanks!
2016-01-26T07:11:04Z beach: Heranort: If you put the pointer to the next element in the same structure as the one where the data is stored, then your data can only be a member of a single list.  Furthermore, you then confuse the container and the data, which is not modular at all, and that's why we don't do it that way.
2016-01-26T07:11:05Z contrapunctus: beach: Cheers. Seems to share a many ideas with your paper.
2016-01-26T07:11:25Z beach: contrapunctus: I am not surprised.  It is an idea that is "in the air".
2016-01-26T07:12:27Z contrapunctus: hm
2016-01-26T07:12:30Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T07:13:22Z contrapunctus: So...what are the various ways folks distribute Lisp programs? (Most Reddit threads I came across discuss only the standalone executable aspect - I'm curious about what all approaches exist, and there doesn't seem to be anything outside of that on Cliki either.)
2016-01-26T07:14:21Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:14:55Z beach: contrapunctus: Quicklisp is probably the most relevant one for this forum.
2016-01-26T07:15:30Z contrapunctus: beach: oh, by 'programs' I mean applications.
2016-01-26T07:15:46Z beach: Why is that relevant?
2016-01-26T07:15:50Z contrapunctus: (for end-users.)
2016-01-26T07:16:34Z contrapunctus: I thought Quicklisp was for libraries (only).
2016-01-26T07:17:13Z beach: I don't see why Quicklisp would be restricted to applications, but what do I know?
2016-01-26T07:17:57Z jackdaniel: hey o/
2016-01-26T07:18:05Z contrapunctus: hey-ho, jackdaniel
2016-01-26T07:18:15Z beach: Hello jackdaniel.
2016-01-26T07:18:38Z jackdaniel: beach: thanks, I'll grok the repository today
2016-01-26T07:18:44Z jackdaniel: :)
2016-01-26T07:19:16Z jackdaniel: I've started porting mcclim to ecl, but encountered bug, that `defsetf' doesn't work on places
2016-01-26T07:19:26Z beach: I see.
2016-01-26T07:19:39Z jackdaniel: what prevented me from succesfully compiling it (except that I've added all the boilerplate)
2016-01-26T07:21:24Z jackdaniel: I believe that hand-made stuff in Lisp-Dep directory (mop and threads) may be replaced with dependency on bordeaux-threads and closer-mop, did you consider this?
2016-01-26T07:22:28Z beach: I agree with you.
2016-01-26T07:22:29Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-26T07:23:26Z jackdaniel: OK, then I'll tackle this next after porting
2016-01-26T07:23:31Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:23:52Z jackdaniel: oh, and trivial-gray-streams
2016-01-26T07:23:54Z beach: Are you saying you are planning to help improve McCLIM? :)
2016-01-26T07:24:33Z jackdaniel: just to harvest some lowest hanging fruits :)
2016-01-26T07:24:44Z beach: Still, that would be much appreciated.
2016-01-26T07:26:36Z beach: jackdaniel: It is entirely possible that, if you want your GUI to look EXACTLY like your "specification", there would be more work to do on McCLIM.
2016-01-26T07:27:05Z jackdaniel: beach: nah, it was just a sketch
2016-01-26T07:27:14Z beach: OK, just saying.
2016-01-26T07:27:18Z jackdaniel: :)
2016-01-26T07:27:20Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:27:47Z jackdaniel: main objective is to make it usable for annotators
2016-01-26T07:28:00Z beach: OK, I understand.
2016-01-26T07:28:21Z beach: As you can see, for that kind of application, it is possible to whip up a CLIM GUI in no time at all.
2016-01-26T07:29:17Z beach: Anyway, time to get to work.  Talk later.
2016-01-26T07:29:19Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-26T07:29:28Z jackdaniel: it's a common thing with sufficiently sofisticated technologies. On the other hand (what is totally fine), they require some work to get used to them
2016-01-26T07:29:31Z jackdaniel: see you o/
2016-01-26T07:29:49Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:30:53Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:34:14Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:34:24Z Wojciech_K quit (Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше))
2016-01-26T07:38:10Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T07:40:12Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T07:40:24Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:40:57Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T07:41:35Z voidlily_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T07:41:49Z voidlily joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:45:04Z munksgaa1d quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T07:48:24Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T07:49:16Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-26T07:50:28Z ck_: Hey, I know this is a long shot and off-topic (sorry.) -- but does anybody remember a talk by don knuth in which he gave the advice "you should befriend a graphic artist, and the two of you will produce [better] work than any of you alone" ?
2016-01-26T08:01:20Z pillton quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T08:02:01Z Warlock_29A|2 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:04:06Z Warlock_29A quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T08:10:56Z Munksgaard left #lisp
2016-01-26T08:11:01Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:14:04Z tessier quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T08:14:25Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:14:32Z _cosmona` joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:14:37Z _cosmona` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T08:14:50Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T08:17:56Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:18:44Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-26T08:23:49Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:24:45Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T08:26:18Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:26:18Z tessier quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T08:26:18Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:28:22Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:28:49Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:31:24Z thethinker joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:31:55Z thethinker: Hello, I need to interact with SQL, preferably postgresql or sqlite3. What CL library would you recommend for this purpose?
2016-01-26T08:32:09Z H4ns: thethinker: postmodern
2016-01-26T08:32:12Z thethinker: I've tried just now using datafly, but I get an unknown error when connecting to the database on my disc
2016-01-26T08:33:06Z H4ns: thethinker: if you're considering postmodern, also refer to https://sites.google.com/site/sabraonthehill/postmodern-examples in addition to the documentation
2016-01-26T08:35:11Z thethinker: Thanks H4ns, I'll look into id.
2016-01-26T08:35:30Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T08:35:46Z thethinker: H4ns: Did you use it yourself?
2016-01-26T08:37:19Z H4ns: thethinker: quite a lot, yes.
2016-01-26T08:37:39Z hnagamin quit (Quit: さようなら)
2016-01-26T08:37:53Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:39:30Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T08:40:46Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T08:40:46Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T08:40:48Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T08:41:08Z thethinker: Actually I think I figured the error out, but for the sake of someone else who might ask this; I got an error 28000 : no pg_hba.conf entry for host ...
2016-01-26T08:41:35Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:41:43Z thethinker: Oh, and it occured during #'postmodern:connect-toplevel
2016-01-26T08:42:14Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:42:21Z thethinker: Now with :use-ssl :try I get an authenthication error, but I will see if that's my fault. :)
2016-01-26T08:42:33Z H4ns: it is certainly your "fault" :)
2016-01-26T08:45:58Z thethinker: H4ns: are you using emacs's sql too? I am wondering how sql-postgres knows my password
2016-01-26T08:46:08Z thethinker: Because it doesn't ask for password, just connects to the database.
2016-01-26T08:46:55Z H4ns: i'm using emacs as well.  i usually configure my postgres to trust connections from localhost, so i am never asked for a password.
2016-01-26T08:47:12Z H4ns: you'll get more substantial help for postgres in the postgres channel
2016-01-26T08:48:30Z thethinker: H4ns: Anyway, I remembered my password. THanks for help!
2016-01-26T08:50:32Z thethinker quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-26T08:51:26Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T08:52:07Z easye joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:53:37Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:55:00Z hnagamin quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T08:55:28Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:56:03Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:56:29Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-26T08:59:20Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-26T09:01:01Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:01:03Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:09:10Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T09:09:17Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:15:26Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T09:20:39Z misv_ is now known as misv
2016-01-26T09:21:33Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:22:50Z prohobo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:26:49Z prohobo: lisp!
2016-01-26T09:27:05Z prohobo: the mike tyson of programming languages
2016-01-26T09:27:34Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T09:28:15Z z0d: not sure I get the metaphore
2016-01-26T09:30:35Z splittist: big in the 80's?
2016-01-26T09:32:58Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-26T09:33:09Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:34:15Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T09:35:26Z Guest76602 quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-26T09:37:41Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:38:17Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-26T09:38:20Z H4ns: "big in the 80's, supports donald trump"
2016-01-26T09:38:23Z H4ns: wait, what?
2016-01-26T09:38:27Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:39:02Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:45:55Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T09:47:38Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:48:31Z Cymew: Tyson does? I wonder who takes political or general advice from him...
2016-01-26T09:49:50Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:50:34Z z0d: Cymew: you would be surprised..
2016-01-26T09:50:40Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T09:54:42Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-26T09:58:24Z prohobo: powerful and has a lisp
2016-01-26T09:58:30Z prohobo: likes pigeons
2016-01-26T09:58:36Z prohobo: more than people
2016-01-26T09:59:22Z prohobo: wise
2016-01-26T10:00:29Z Zhivago: Let me know if prohobo requires quieting.
2016-01-26T10:02:03Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:02:54Z je4i quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T10:03:29Z spacebat quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T10:03:47Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T10:04:34Z moore33: Are there any good canonical examples of adding slot properties via the MOP? I've probably done it myself :) but would like to quickly look at some code.
2016-01-26T10:05:03Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:05:11Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:07:02Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:07:38Z earl-ducaine quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T10:07:57Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:08:05Z Opodeldoc joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:09:28Z eschulte2 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T10:09:45Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T10:10:06Z mnoonan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T10:10:12Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-26T10:12:43Z prohobo: am i wrong?
2016-01-26T10:13:12Z H4ns: moore33: by slot properties you mean custom slot options?
2016-01-26T10:13:27Z ralt: aka metaclass?
2016-01-26T10:14:18Z moore33: H4ns: Yeah.
2016-01-26T10:14:40Z H4ns: moore33: you need to go the full metaclass route for that.
2016-01-26T10:14:45Z ralt: tbh, it's a lot more boilerplate than I hoped when I first looked at that https://github.com/ralt/restful/blob/master/src/resource-metaclass.lisp
2016-01-26T10:14:56Z H4ns: moore33: the xml-class example is pretty much self contained.
2016-01-26T10:16:09Z H4ns: ralt: i agree, the mop is not terribly convenient and i often feel that i'm not doing things properly because i don't know all of the effects that my metaclasses cause.
2016-01-26T10:16:25Z H4ns: things mostly work surprisingly well, though :)
2016-01-26T10:16:31Z ralt: yeah, it works well
2016-01-26T10:16:32Z moore33: H4ns: I know that I would need a custom metaclass even to parse the slot options. I'm wondering more about good ways to store the additional slot properties in the object, access them efficiently, etc.
2016-01-26T10:16:36Z ralt: but it was... long.
2016-01-26T10:18:07Z ralt: moore33: in the end, it's fairly straightforward: add 2 classes and implement 3 methods. Then CLOS will be happy.
2016-01-26T10:19:21Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T10:22:25Z moore33: The problem I'm mulling over is this: I want to indicate if the current value of a slot is valid, based on changes to certain other slots; is it better to have a "hidden" slot indicating that status, or should I just store a cons in the slot with (value . valid).
2016-01-26T10:22:51Z moore33: And I realize all this is pretty much splitting hairs.
2016-01-26T10:23:53Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:25:15Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T10:29:22Z kopinjol joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:30:32Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T10:30:48Z loke_: moore33: Add more slots
2016-01-26T10:31:05Z loke_: Just let the metaclass initialiser add a magic slot to track that information in
2016-01-26T10:35:08Z Zhivago: Or you could have an invalid value.
2016-01-26T10:35:27Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:36:05Z moore33: Zhivago: Good point.
2016-01-26T10:37:59Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:39:08Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:39:11Z Zhivago: One of the things javascript got right, imho, was using undefined instead of an operator like unboundp.
2016-01-26T10:44:06Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T10:44:35Z loke_: Zhivago: Interesting statement.
2016-01-26T10:44:52Z loke_: Where is the JS model superior, in your opinion?
2016-01-26T10:45:24Z Posterdati quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-26T10:45:44Z ralt: moore33: do you need another slot or a method? what you want sounds like a method.
2016-01-26T10:46:13Z ralt: like (is-valid obj)
2016-01-26T10:46:58Z moore33: ralt: That method is the user-facing interface, but I need to cache the validity status.
2016-01-26T10:47:52Z ralt: moore33: having an unexported slot sounds like a good option then, indeed
2016-01-26T10:48:10Z ralt: or a slot without a reader
2016-01-26T10:48:55Z moore33: ralt: The idea of using makunbound or a designated invalid value is appealing too.
2016-01-26T10:50:18Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2016-01-26T10:52:54Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T10:53:42Z ralt: moore33: meh, it's more about internal state, since it isn't going to be exposed. So it's about how you want to handle caching internally. A matter of preference.
2016-01-26T10:55:42Z ralt: personally, I don't really like having unbound values... but that's a matter of preference
2016-01-26T10:59:35Z Zhivago: loke: It has less magic in the user-model, and an equivalent amount of magic in the implementation-model
2016-01-26T11:02:05Z loke_: O dunno. I kinda like being able to get an error when accessing the slot
2016-01-26T11:02:13Z loke_: In JS you have to check for undefined every time.
2016-01-26T11:02:19Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:03:31Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:03:48Z Zhivago: Well, you can transparantly add that semantic iirc.
2016-01-26T11:04:36Z loke_: In JS?
2016-01-26T11:04:58Z loke_: I have to go now unfortunately
2016-01-26T11:05:14Z Zhivago: Yeah, in E6, anyhow.
2016-01-26T11:05:27Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:05:48Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:06:11Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T11:07:01Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:08:26Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T11:09:50Z Guest18755 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:11:03Z Guest18755 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T11:11:54Z Guest18755 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:13:21Z Guest18755 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T11:14:05Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:14:08Z Guest18755 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:15:36Z Guest18755 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T11:16:30Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:16:31Z Guest18755 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:16:47Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T11:17:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:17:10Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T11:17:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:17:54Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:17:57Z Guest18755 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T11:18:19Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:19:08Z Guest18755 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:19:38Z Passer quit
2016-01-26T11:21:55Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T11:22:22Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-26T11:22:23Z tclamb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T11:25:34Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T11:25:58Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:26:05Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:28:15Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T11:28:41Z mozart_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T11:29:28Z trebor_home joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:31:38Z Guest18755 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T11:37:56Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:41:05Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:41:21Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T11:43:08Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:44:11Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:52:25Z jameser joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:57:10Z gensym quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T11:58:17Z jameser` joined #lisp
2016-01-26T11:59:15Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T11:59:17Z kopinjol quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T12:02:29Z gensym joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:03:07Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T12:03:46Z prohobo: guys, im doing the koans from cliki
2016-01-26T12:03:51Z kopinjol joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:04:14Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:04:23Z Zhivago: I congratulate your effort.
2016-01-26T12:04:45Z prohobo: and im stuck on test-list-cons, specifically: (let ((nums nil)) (setf nums (cons :two nums)) (assert-equal ___ nums)))
2016-01-26T12:04:46Z jameser` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:05:03Z prohobo: i tried '(:two) as that's the only thing that makes sense to me
2016-01-26T12:05:26Z Zhivago: '(:two) is equivalent to (cons :two nil)
2016-01-26T12:05:41Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:05:57Z Opodeldoc quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T12:06:01Z prohobo: yeah
2016-01-26T12:06:04Z Zhivago: So, what's the problem?
2016-01-26T12:06:11Z prohobo: it fails
2016-01-26T12:06:14Z prohobo: hmm
2016-01-26T12:06:21Z Zhivago: Try printing nums out.
2016-01-26T12:06:27Z __main__ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:06:39Z prohobo: omg
2016-01-26T12:06:47Z prohobo: it actually changed the value, i see
2016-01-26T12:07:59Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:08:01Z Zhivago: What did it print?
2016-01-26T12:08:25Z prohobo: thanks, it printed '(:one)
2016-01-26T12:08:48Z prohobo: so the answer is '(:two :one), but why can't it also be '(:one :two)?
2016-01-26T12:08:54Z prohobo: nvm
2016-01-26T12:09:32Z Zhivago: So, where did the :one come from?
2016-01-26T12:10:33Z prohobo: the previous example
2016-01-26T12:10:58Z Zhivago: Where did it come from in (let ((nums nil)) (setf nums (cons :two nums)) (assert-equal ___ nums))) ?
2016-01-26T12:10:58Z prohobo: i know how to program i just didnt realize it was updating nums' value
2016-01-26T12:11:00Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:11:31Z prohobo: Zhivago: that's not the full function, i only quoted a part of it, previous to that bit was the same thing except with :one
2016-01-26T12:12:11Z Zhivago: Well, what you quoted for your question was worse than useless, then.
2016-01-26T12:12:48Z prohobo: uh okay, i still figured out what i was doing wrong after your first answer
2016-01-26T12:12:56Z prohobo: so maybe it wasn't so useless
2016-01-26T12:16:51Z prohobo: okay, i can see how that would have been annoying to you, sorry im pretty tired
2016-01-26T12:18:17Z prohobo: i assumed you knew the context of the question since its the koans exercises
2016-01-26T12:18:49Z Zhivago: In the future, try to make sure your questions are well formed.
2016-01-26T12:20:30Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:20:31Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:22:33Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:23:24Z prohobo: i refuse due to pride
2016-01-26T12:24:12Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:24:15Z Zhivago writes a reminder to ignore prohobo's future questions.
2016-01-26T12:24:54Z prohobo: :P
2016-01-26T12:24:55Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:25:30Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:30:06Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:32:18Z Kruppe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:32:52Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:34:08Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:34:09Z kushal quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-26T12:34:12Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:35:05Z Kruppe joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:37:51Z blt joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:38:44Z zaquest joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:39:47Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:41:04Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:41:52Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:48:31Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T12:48:58Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:54:27Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:55:42Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-26T12:57:06Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:57:54Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:59:14Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-26T12:59:15Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T12:59:15Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T13:01:29Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:04:03Z hydan quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T13:04:44Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:04:46Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T13:06:40Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:07:54Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T13:08:03Z psy_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T13:09:02Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:09:02Z hydan is now known as hydan`
2016-01-26T13:10:06Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T13:12:09Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:13:13Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:16:02Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:17:35Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T13:18:58Z vlnx quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T13:19:22Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:20:58Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:22:35Z contrapunctus: Has anyone tried Roswell? Penny for your thoughts? https://github.com/roswell/roswell
2016-01-26T13:24:09Z vlnx joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:25:00Z clintm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T13:25:25Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:25:39Z eudoxia: contrapunctus: i like the idea but i don't think the author is too enthusiastic about porting it to lisp which is kind of a deal breaker
2016-01-26T13:26:01Z clintm left #lisp
2016-01-26T13:26:19Z clintm joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:28:35Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:31:22Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:31:22Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T13:31:23Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:31:47Z jackdaniel: eudoxia: why is it a dealbreaker?
2016-01-26T13:31:52Z contrapunctus: eudoxia: I see. By the way, I just came across http://eudoxia.me/article/common-lisp-sotu-2015/ - this 'review'/'roundup' is an excellent idea, I've had a vague feeling of doing something similar for another community (open source musicians), this is the perfect realization of it :)
2016-01-26T13:32:04Z eudoxia: i want to be able to use it as a library because of reasons
2016-01-26T13:32:23Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T13:33:01Z eudoxia: contrapunctus: thanks!
2016-01-26T13:35:18Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T13:35:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:40:50Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T13:41:38Z contrapunctus: eudoxia: Cheers; also... "From NaN, 0NaN to NaN, 0NaN, a total of 882 repos were created"
2016-01-26T13:41:49Z eudoxia: oh god dammit
2016-01-26T13:43:05Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:43:09Z eudoxia: fucking javascript
2016-01-26T13:43:23Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:44:43Z moore33: eudoxia: Yes, nice roundup. Some of us are still trying to make CLIM a viable option, but we move at less than a snail's pace :)
2016-01-26T13:45:20Z eudoxia: i know
2016-01-26T13:49:41Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:51:54Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:56:50Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T13:57:00Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T13:57:56Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T14:01:27Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-26T14:04:56Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:06:00Z kopinjol: \leave
2016-01-26T14:06:07Z kopinjol left #lisp
2016-01-26T14:07:01Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:07:25Z kopinjol joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:07:46Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T14:08:46Z hnagamin quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T14:10:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T14:15:40Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:15:40Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T14:15:40Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:16:44Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T14:17:19Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:17:19Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T14:17:19Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:18:13Z codefo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:19:47Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T14:20:09Z mnoonan joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:22:16Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:23:04Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:26:07Z ipmonger_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.2 - http://znc.in)
2016-01-26T14:26:35Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T14:27:32Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:27:38Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T14:28:55Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T14:28:57Z ipmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:29:02Z newdan joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:29:08Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T14:29:27Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:29:31Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:29:42Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T14:30:06Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T14:30:54Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:31:17Z ipmonger quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T14:34:17Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-26T14:36:25Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T14:36:26Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T14:42:15Z kopinjol quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-26T14:42:57Z kopinjol joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:44:57Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:45:21Z sweater is now known as Guest57070
2016-01-26T14:46:54Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:49:34Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:50:28Z segmond joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:52:38Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-26T14:57:06Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T14:57:39Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T14:58:50Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T14:59:02Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:00:24Z Heranort_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T15:00:52Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:03:11Z Cymew quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-26T15:03:29Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:04:40Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:04:55Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T15:06:25Z ipmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:08:35Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:08:35Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T15:08:35Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:11:03Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T15:11:33Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T15:13:35Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:13:36Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:14:20Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:19:51Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:19:56Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T15:22:41Z warweasle: I want to clarify (use-package). It pulls all public symbols from a package and puts it into the *current package*. Correct?
2016-01-26T15:23:02Z jackdaniel: warweasle: yes
2016-01-26T15:23:11Z warweasle: jackdaniel: Thanks!
2016-01-26T15:24:28Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:25:32Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:25:35Z shka: hi
2016-01-26T15:27:26Z |3b|: more specifically it adds the package to the use list of the current package, which is similar at that instant but differs if you make changes later
2016-01-26T15:30:31Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-26T15:30:54Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:30:56Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-26T15:31:56Z warweasle quit (Quit: gotta go)
2016-01-26T15:32:21Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:32:38Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T15:32:46Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T15:33:43Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:35:59Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:36:40Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:37:37Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:39:08Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:44:00Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T15:44:03Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:46:44Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T15:47:23Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:47:39Z Mitzelflick: we can correct all of these problem with a small serving of lisp
2016-01-26T15:47:41Z slifeet joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:47:43Z Mitzelflick: and a lot of thought
2016-01-26T15:47:50Z Mitzelflick: and careful reasoning
2016-01-26T15:49:34Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T15:49:52Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:50:52Z prohobo quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2016-01-26T15:51:50Z helio quit
2016-01-26T15:51:52Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:52:07Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:52:46Z rpg: sigh. Reading Edi's CL Recipes on directory listings reminds me how wildly inadequate CL is for this task.  Having to load CL-PPCRE just to pattern match a set of files is totally lame.
2016-01-26T15:53:25Z rpg: If Python is batteries included, CL sometimes feels like "spend all my day finding and loading batteries." :-/
2016-01-26T15:54:00Z InvalidCo: I don't think you quite appreciate the problems of patternmatching a set of files
2016-01-26T15:54:16Z rpg: InvalidCo: This is something I do in perl in 2.4seconds
2016-01-26T15:54:40Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-26T15:54:47Z rpg: Here I must take directory, translate pathnames into namestrings, and regexp match. Yeesh.
2016-01-26T15:55:07Z rpg: I suppose calling out to LS will do the job.
2016-01-26T15:56:57Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:57:34Z InvalidCo: doesn't perl do some sort of regexp match?
2016-01-26T15:57:52Z rpg: perl can handle glob patterns, which CL cannot.
2016-01-26T15:58:02Z InvalidCo: I mean, if you're talking about wildcard-matching, it's quite problematic in real life as well
2016-01-26T15:58:30Z InvalidCo: but I don't see why you couldn't write glob pattern matching once and then use it whenever you need it
2016-01-26T15:58:46Z Malopolski-Zubr joined #lisp
2016-01-26T15:59:15Z mordocai: Well quite frankly we should have something like cl-fad that does what it does and does things like globbing for you
2016-01-26T15:59:17Z mordocai: Doesn't look like we do
2016-01-26T15:59:18Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-26T15:59:41Z rpg: mordocai: agreed.  Fare's UIOP is better than CL-FAD, but still isn't up to this job.
2016-01-26T16:00:00Z mordocai: rpg: Ah, didn't realize UIOP included those utilities but yeah
2016-01-26T16:00:32Z rpg: mordocai: Yes, UIOP's coverage is more extensive than is CL-FAD's.
2016-01-26T16:01:08Z moore33: Can't you write a glob-to-regex compiler?
2016-01-26T16:01:12Z rpg: Honestly: for a simple job, taking ls with a glob pattern, and pasting the results into an editor buffer is the easiest way, which seems quite lame.
2016-01-26T16:01:25Z rpg: moore33: Yes, but it's flipping 2016! Why should I need to do that?
2016-01-26T16:01:30Z mordocai: moore33: You can write -anything- the point is we should have something that already exists.
2016-01-26T16:01:35Z mordocai: As a community
2016-01-26T16:01:52Z moore33: rpg: Well, not you, maybe :) But someone could, and problem solved.
2016-01-26T16:02:00Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:02:15Z mordocai: That'll get things done! "Someone should do it!" :P
2016-01-26T16:02:20Z mordocai: someone: do it
2016-01-26T16:02:33Z rpg: moore33: Yes, I can, and I probably will, but right now, how can we treat CL as a serious contender for carrying out experiments, when you can't even find a set of input files that match a pattern?'
2016-01-26T16:02:39Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:03:02Z Munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T16:03:13Z moore33: rpg: Funny, I've never had to apply that as a criteria...
2016-01-26T16:03:34Z mordocai: moore33: It is pretty common when doing any kind of scripting or system things
2016-01-26T16:03:41Z Mitzelflick: didn't gigamonkeys have file stuff?
2016-01-26T16:03:50Z rpg: Mitzelflick: that's CL-FAD.
2016-01-26T16:03:58Z Mitzelflick: werc.cat-v.org vs lisp on lines
2016-01-26T16:04:04Z Mitzelflick: for web dominatoin
2016-01-26T16:04:10Z moore33: mordocai: I get that, it's just not the kind of programming I generally do.
2016-01-26T16:04:11Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:04:11Z rpg: If you look at Weitz's book you'll see that even Edi can't do this job! ;-)
2016-01-26T16:04:28Z Mitzelflick: which book is that?
2016-01-26T16:04:28Z mordocai: Heh, i haven't gotten that far through it yet (i've been going in order)
2016-01-26T16:04:35Z mordocai: Mitzelflick: Common Lisp Recipes
2016-01-26T16:05:14Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:06:17Z ralt: (directory "/some/*.foo")
2016-01-26T16:06:28Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:06:39Z rpg: ralt: but not (directory "/some/p??.foo")
2016-01-26T16:06:40Z mordocai: ralt: implementation dependent on what you get there
2016-01-26T16:08:07Z ralt: ah, ok
2016-01-26T16:08:09Z InvalidCo: one interesting thing about file glob patterns is that ls, for example, does not do glob pattern matching - it is bash which does it
2016-01-26T16:08:25Z rpg: fare keeps trying to convince me that CL can be a scripting language but.... I don't think so...
2016-01-26T16:08:35Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:08:35Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:08:56Z mordocai: rpg: I definitely can, but we need a few more libs
2016-01-26T16:09:17Z ralt: ... and a better way to manage libs
2016-01-26T16:09:31Z ralt: quicklisp on its own is not good enough, being per-user
2016-01-26T16:09:35Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T16:09:44Z rpg: mordocai: I think we need more libs, and it needs to not involve a lot of configuration to get them all loaded.  QL is a good step in the right direction, though.
2016-01-26T16:10:02Z rpg: Might be possible to have a recipe to burn an image that provided a CL scripting system.
2016-01-26T16:10:54Z ralt: I'd love quicklisp to be: 1/ as easy to install as most package managers (aka "curl | bash" in the worst case). 2/ able to install binaries and libraries globally on a system.
2016-01-26T16:11:06Z Guest57070 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:11:29Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:11:38Z ralt: "binaries" being whatever scripts we provide to it
2016-01-26T16:12:19Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:12:24Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:12:41Z ralt: (buildapp binaries would be a good option._
2016-01-26T16:12:48Z ralt: s/_/)/
2016-01-26T16:13:47Z mordocai: ralt: Quicklisp is as easy to install as most package managers. Pipe it to implementation load(if you can't literally pipe them to a tmp file) and then give the implementation an eval snippet of the install command. A portable script to do that could be thrown together very quickly. As far as 2 I'm pretty sure you can make libs global through config.
2016-01-26T16:16:35Z ralt: mordocai: which config?
2016-01-26T16:16:52Z ralt: (also: 2 is about libs and binaries. But I'd love knowing about global libs already.)
2016-01-26T16:17:42Z mordocai: ralt: Binaries should just be added to your path.
2016-01-26T16:17:45Z mordocai: Like normal
2016-01-26T16:17:51Z Guest57070 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:18:40Z mordocai: ralt: I don't think the config for quicklisp is fully documented yet, I'd have to dig through the source. I'm pretty sure it is possible though.
2016-01-26T16:19:00Z mordocai: I'm already procrastinating talking here so I really shouldn't dig through the source ATM :P
2016-01-26T16:20:15Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:22:44Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-26T16:22:56Z ralt: mordocai: added to your path? That's not really user-friendly.
2016-01-26T16:23:20Z ralt: if quicklisp put the binaries in e.g. ~/.quicklisp/bin/, then adding that to the path, why not
2016-01-26T16:23:32Z ralt: but adding the path for every binary? come on...
2016-01-26T16:23:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:24:50Z Mitzelflick: shouldn't lisp just be loading files full of lisp definitions?
2016-01-26T16:24:57Z mordocai: ralt: Why would you have to add every one to your path?
2016-01-26T16:25:02Z mordocai: ralt: Do a directory like you said
2016-01-26T16:25:03Z Mitzelflick: does quicklisp add new c compiled function modules?
2016-01-26T16:25:09Z mordocai: Path stuff is not the job of the library manager
2016-01-26T16:25:24Z ralt: mordocai: $PATH is recursive?
2016-01-26T16:25:26Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:25:46Z mordocai: ralt: Once again, why are you making up these problems?
2016-01-26T16:25:55Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:25:59Z mordocai: ralt: Just symlink or copy your binaries to /usr/local/bin. Done
2016-01-26T16:26:04Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-26T16:26:23Z Mitzelflick: yeah we got enuf problems
2016-01-26T16:26:24Z Mitzelflick: !
2016-01-26T16:26:26Z Mitzelflick: ;)
2016-01-26T16:26:28Z Mitzelflick: yuk yuk
2016-01-26T16:26:31Z ralt: mordocai: every package manager out there (pip, gems, npm, composer, etc) does that for you, because it's *super* convenient
2016-01-26T16:26:42Z mordocai: ralt: quicklisp isn't a package manager
2016-01-26T16:26:48Z mordocai: ralt: it is a library manager
2016-01-26T16:26:54Z Mitzelflick: lisp isnt ruby
2016-01-26T16:27:01Z ralt: then we need a lisp package manager :)
2016-01-26T16:27:07Z mordocai: ralt: Excellent, write one!
2016-01-26T16:27:10Z Mitzelflick: lisp os!
2016-01-26T16:27:11Z contrapunctus: mordocai: why shouldn't it be, though? O.o
2016-01-26T16:27:30Z mordocai: contrapunctus: Im not arguing whether or not it should be (That's Xach's choice) but I am arguing what it is
2016-01-26T16:27:41Z contrapunctus: hm...
2016-01-26T16:27:43Z Mitzelflick: xach hates me
2016-01-26T16:27:46Z loke: Do we really? How many packages are there in QL that could be conceivably run standalone? I can think of Hemlock, that's pretty much it.
2016-01-26T16:28:08Z loke: I think there may have been a game, some pacman clone or somehting too.
2016-01-26T16:28:20Z contrapunctus: oh, package manager as in 'installs applications'. yeah, not so sure about myself that either.
2016-01-26T16:28:21Z mordocai: Yeah there are very few things in quicklisp that actually make sense as a binary
2016-01-26T16:30:14Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-26T16:30:51Z ralt: loke: I have a couple of them, but it doesn't make sense to add them in quicklisp
2016-01-26T16:31:51Z loke: ralt: My though too.
2016-01-26T16:32:09Z ralt: which means I have no standard way to distribute them
2016-01-26T16:32:13Z loke: I have a few projects on QL, but none of them are applications. And all but one is a pure library.
2016-01-26T16:33:04Z mordocai: ralt: I mean you can distribute binaries as like a debian package or whatever pretty easily. Look at stumpwm.
2016-01-26T16:33:14Z mordocai: If you want to include source quicklisp bundle has that
2016-01-26T16:33:18Z ralt: in other ecosystems (python, node, ruby...), distributing applications through the PM is easy. So people do it. And it becomes very easy to install such binaries.
2016-01-26T16:33:31Z ralt: mordocai: and how do I handle rpm/arch?
2016-01-26T16:33:36Z contrapunctus: I think this is a good time to ask my question from today morning again, in hope of more answers and viewpoints - what are the various ways folks distribute Lisp applications? (Most Reddit threads I came across discuss only the standalone executable aspect - I'm curious about what all approaches exist, and there doesn't seem to be anything outside of that on Cliki either. Strandh suggested using quicklisp.)
2016-01-26T16:33:41Z ralt: ask any python developer, really
2016-01-26T16:33:51Z ralt: they just push on pip and everyone else runs pip install
2016-01-26T16:34:01Z mordocai: ralt: The same way everyone else does, one package manager at a time. Pythong/ruby/node are actually the weird newcomers
2016-01-26T16:34:04Z mordocai: python*
2016-01-26T16:34:26Z rpg_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:34:45Z rpg_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T16:35:00Z ralt: mordocai: python, ruby, node, php, rust...
2016-01-26T16:35:00Z mordocai: contrapunctus: Personally, i'd make linux packages
2016-01-26T16:35:01Z loke: And if anyone is going to hail the node ecosystem as a great design, I'll scream.
2016-01-26T16:35:06Z mordocai: ralt: All new languages yeah
2016-01-26T16:35:17Z loke: The ruby one can be painful too, but nothing near the level of insanity that is node
2016-01-26T16:35:19Z ralt: and I'm probably forgetting some.
2016-01-26T16:35:35Z ralt: I'm just saying that it's a nice way to share applications -- and we don't have that in lisp.
2016-01-26T16:36:11Z ralt: (and I'm not against e.g. deb packages, I made https://github.com/ralt/qldeb, but I'd still love a lisp package manager.)
2016-01-26T16:36:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:36:49Z psy joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:36:58Z rpg_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:37:03Z contrapunctus: mordocai: distribute FASLs? the source files themselves? standalone ((in)famously gigantic) binaries? That's what I meant by approaches...are there any others?
2016-01-26T16:37:19Z psy quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T16:37:26Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:37:41Z mordocai: contrapunctus: The binaries are not really that big IMHO. Sure they are bigger than other binaries but that is because they include the lisp implementation in them
2016-01-26T16:38:07Z psy joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:38:09Z mordocai: contrapunctus: But yeah, you'd distribute the binaries in the packages and have a separate src package made via quicklisp bundle
2016-01-26T16:38:15Z mordocai: At least in debian
2016-01-26T16:38:25Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:38:53Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:38:53Z mordocai: ralt: I personally feel that despite how easy it is global language specific package systems are a mistake
2016-01-26T16:38:59Z mordocai: ralt: So i'm fine with what we have
2016-01-26T16:39:08Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:40:35Z contrapunctus: mordocai: I find the FASL route (+ having the user install any CL impl.) better (space savings, conventionally accepted route by modern languages, ...), but IIUC those aren't implementation-independent...which leaves one with something like what StumpWM does (autoconf + makefile)
2016-01-26T16:40:44Z ralt: mordocai: following this discussion, you might be interested in https://github.com/ralt/dh-quicklisp-buildapp :)
2016-01-26T16:41:02Z mordocai: ralt: Yeah, I saw that. Pretty helpful
2016-01-26T16:41:28Z mordocai: contrapunctus: Meh, everyone has so much disk space anymore (at least in the first world) that it seems silly to worry about it
2016-01-26T16:41:30Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:42:03Z mordocai: contrapunctus: Technically though, if you want to stay true to lisp philosophy, everything being something that is designed to be loaded through the repl is the way to do it
2016-01-26T16:42:12Z mordocai: No binaries, no fasls
2016-01-26T16:42:26Z j0ni quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:42:32Z contrapunctus: binaries != images?
2016-01-26T16:42:39Z mordocai: Binaries == images
2016-01-26T16:42:46Z contrapunctus: hm...
2016-01-26T16:42:47Z Sucks quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:42:48Z mordocai: Well kinda
2016-01-26T16:42:51Z newdan: mordocai: I never understood that. If you have to load everything into the image, how are you supposed to use source control? How do you have repeatable builds?
2016-01-26T16:42:55Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:43:10Z newdan: Unless you just write your own "loader" script
2016-01-26T16:43:19Z mordocai: newdan: Those things aren't part of the lisp philosophy.
2016-01-26T16:43:31Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-26T16:43:32Z soundobstacle joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:43:34Z mordocai: The classic one at least
2016-01-26T16:44:10Z contrapunctus: newdan: I suppose like how Smalltalk does it.
2016-01-26T16:44:25Z mordocai: The problem becomes as you go down the path of a more unix like philosophy you lose what makes lisp great, its awesome dynamism
2016-01-26T16:44:32Z contrapunctus: but afaik we don't have something that in the Lisps
2016-01-26T16:44:42Z newdan: contrapunctus: I don't know enough about Smalltalk/image development I suppose to comment
2016-01-26T16:44:45Z djh: how does smalltalk do it?
2016-01-26T16:44:55Z mordocai: There's probably some balance but I don't know what it is
2016-01-26T16:45:12Z djh: As a Lisp beginnerwho's very used to CPAN, this all baffles me :)
2016-01-26T16:45:43Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:46:04Z jdz: djh: just use REPL as your shell, and quicklisp to get your packages
2016-01-26T16:46:39Z mordocai: djh: Yeah, you don't need to worry about any of this yet
2016-01-26T16:46:45Z contrapunctus: newdan: me neither, but what little I know is they have their own VCS, and (famously) scorn storing code in plain text files. All image-based.
2016-01-26T16:46:48Z djh: I'm working through the wizard book with scheme atm, I'll come back to CL once I finish
2016-01-26T16:47:43Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T16:47:59Z mordocai is pretty happy with lisp not being all that integrated with unix
2016-01-26T16:49:16Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:50:12Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:50:16Z trebor_home quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:50:39Z j0ni joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:51:10Z ralt: mordocai: I like it too, but I'd love some way to make it easier for my non-lispers friends to use my code...
2016-01-26T16:51:33Z mordocai: ralt: They are not worthy! :P
2016-01-26T16:51:46Z mordocai: Nah, we need to find some balance yeah.
2016-01-26T16:51:52Z mordocai: I'm just not sure where it is yet
2016-01-26T16:52:15Z ralt: a new property in ASDF would make it easier, that would define the list of binaries...
2016-01-26T16:52:36Z mordocai: Well last I heard they are looking for an asdf maintainer...
2016-01-26T16:52:41Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:52:43Z ralt: yeah :(
2016-01-26T16:53:52Z ralt: hm... is it possible to define new slots for defsystem?
2016-01-26T16:54:07Z ralt: I think I've already seen that...
2016-01-26T16:54:17Z ralt: like prove does it, iirc
2016-01-26T16:54:49Z mordocai: I would think so yeah.
2016-01-26T16:55:53Z ralt: hmm... now I remember already playing with... "bundle program" or something like that with asdf
2016-01-26T16:56:01Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T16:56:16Z ralt: I think it was Shinmera who talked about this
2016-01-26T16:56:29Z ralt: I don't remember what it did exactly though
2016-01-26T16:56:42Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T16:56:57Z ralt: oh right, that was to replace buildapp
2016-01-26T16:57:28Z ralt: so it's exactly what we're talking about
2016-01-26T16:57:37Z ralt: it defines a binary
2016-01-26T16:57:48Z ralt: it only let you define you one iirc though
2016-01-26T16:58:24Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:58:33Z ralt: I have to dig back in that
2016-01-26T16:59:03Z ralt: (it was pretty buggy last time I tried.)
2016-01-26T16:59:07Z contrapunctus: mordocai: it always seems to me that Lisp is at a fork in the road - or leaves the programmer at a fork in the road - between image-based work and file-based work
2016-01-26T16:59:11Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T16:59:15Z contrapunctus: (but the former didn't get much attention)
2016-01-26T16:59:45Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:00:03Z moore33: contrapunctus: That is partly historical, and a West Coast vs East Coast thing.
2016-01-26T17:01:46Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:02:55Z ralt: image-op! https://github.com/fare/asdf/blob/master/bundle.lisp#L178
2016-01-26T17:03:12Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:03:20Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-26T17:03:32Z ralt: well, program-op actually
2016-01-26T17:03:42Z ralt: > create an executable file from the system and its dependencies
2016-01-26T17:03:52Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:03:54Z yaewa joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:04:09Z moore33: beach: hey there
2016-01-26T17:04:20Z contrapunctus: moore33: anywhere one may read more about this?
2016-01-26T17:05:06Z moore33: contrapunctus: I think Steele and Gabriel's history of Lisp talks a bit about it.
2016-01-26T17:05:53Z contrapunctus: cool, thanks
2016-01-26T17:06:12Z holycow_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:06:13Z algae_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:06:42Z algae_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T17:06:51Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:07:26Z algae quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:07:26Z moei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:07:26Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:07:27Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:07:27Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:07:27Z holycow quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:07:27Z codefo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:07:27Z baboon` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:07:53Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:08:18Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:08:19Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:08:44Z mordocai: moore33: You mean http://www.csee.umbc.edu/courses/331/resources/papers/Evolution-of-Lisp.pdf right?
2016-01-26T17:08:53Z varjagg joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:09:11Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:09:45Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:10:04Z beach: In an attempt to fix the CLX backend of McCLIM, I noticed that the existing code doesn't apply the "standard rules" documented in the Xlib C-language interface, section 12.7.  Furthermore, there was nothing about the subject in the Texinfo-based CLX documentation.
2016-01-26T17:10:06Z beach: So I set out to implement those rules, which took me a day or so of work.  Then I found that this code probably already in the CLX library, except that it is not documented in the Texinfo-based manual. :(
2016-01-26T17:11:12Z mordocai: :(
2016-01-26T17:11:41Z beach: So, change of strategy: Try to improve the Texinfo-based CLX manual by adding documentation for the functions that I need to fix the CLX backend of McCLIM.
2016-01-26T17:12:01Z moore33: mordocai: yes.
2016-01-26T17:12:12Z moore33: beach: What are the "standard rules?"
2016-01-26T17:12:16Z prohobo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:13:09Z beach: moore33: The ones that determine which keysym is to be the interpretation of a keycode, given the modifier mask and the association of keycodes to certain keysyms and to certain modifiers.
2016-01-26T17:13:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:13:10Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T17:13:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:13:45Z moore33: beach: Oh, that.
2016-01-26T17:14:33Z beach: In the process of reading the CLX code, I noticed they use a custom declaration: CLX-VALUE to document return values of functions.  Wouldn't it be better to replace those by FTYPE proclamations?
2016-01-26T17:15:06Z beach: Only Genera seems to know what to do with those declarations.   For other implementations, the compiler is told to ignore them.
2016-01-26T17:16:54Z beach: It all feels so weird.  On the one hand, it seems X11 (so also CLX) is on its way out.  On the other hand, I need a working backend for McCLIM.  Any help to sort out this (mental) mess would be welcome.
2016-01-26T17:17:36Z moore33: I don't think X11 is on its way out in the short term.
2016-01-26T17:18:04Z moore33: Especially on the input side; is Wayland or whatever really much different there?
2016-01-26T17:18:26Z beach: I don't know.  I started reading up on Wayland, but the documentation is really badly written.
2016-01-26T17:18:50Z whiteline_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:18:56Z beach: It's a good point though to compare the input functionality of the two.
2016-01-26T17:19:15Z blt_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:19:21Z ecraven: xkb is amazing, I've never looked into how wayland compares to that
2016-01-26T17:19:32Z beach: I say "badly written" but it could just be that it is meant for a different category of readers to the one I am a member of.
2016-01-26T17:20:35Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:20:35Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:21:02Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:21:21Z beach: *sigh*, yet another body of documentation to read and digest.
2016-01-26T17:21:51Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:22:06Z beach: I have tried over and over to read the protocol documentation for the Render extension, and I can't for my life understand it.
2016-01-26T17:23:09Z moore33: beach: My impression, and I'm happy to be corrected, is that things are moving more and more towards OpenGL for general rendering on Linux. Even if it's not being used by clients yet, it is used inside the server or compositor or whatever you want to call it.
2016-01-26T17:23:30Z beach: So I tried to attack it through the CLX code and documentation.  WRONG!  Most Render functionality in CLX is undocumented, and, worse, the code seems very alpha level.
2016-01-26T17:23:30Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:24:20Z beach: moore33: I am willing to believe that.  But I need to know how it is going to present itself to client code.
2016-01-26T17:24:35Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:25:45Z moore33: beach: I think we have this conversation every 5 years :) OpenGL is reasonably documented through books, tutorials, the OpenGL Wiki, etc. The official standards are very detailed.
2016-01-26T17:25:51Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:26:13Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:26:28Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T17:26:44Z beach: moore33: Sure, but I am not expressing myself very well here.  I need to know how I can use Common Lisp to communicate with it, AND handle input events.
2016-01-26T17:27:00Z beach: moore33: I don't see much of that in those documents.
2016-01-26T17:27:52Z shka quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-26T17:27:58Z beach: But I guess that is what you are working on, right?
2016-01-26T17:28:23Z trn quit (Quit: quit)
2016-01-26T17:28:35Z moore33: beach: OpenGL doesn't do input events. For rendering, cl-opengl is the thing. I think cl-opengl is reasonably well documented where it goes beyond raw OpenGL calls. I'm working on a layer over OpenGL.
2016-01-26T17:29:10Z pbgc joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:29:47Z beach: Right.  So I need to know what to do for inputs.
2016-01-26T17:29:54Z blt_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:30:15Z zaquest quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:30:16Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:30:24Z TMA: beach: se also glkit and sdlkit -- a CLOS layers over OpenGL and SDL2
2016-01-26T17:30:51Z moore33: beach: What do you not know how to do?
2016-01-26T17:30:57Z moore33: s/how/what/
2016-01-26T17:31:16Z beach: TMA: Thanks.  Even more things to take in.
2016-01-26T17:32:03Z beach: moore33: I don't know how to open an OpenGL window and have events be delivered when things happen in it.
2016-01-26T17:32:03Z beach:  
2016-01-26T17:32:32Z beach: moore33: So I have no idea where to start even.
2016-01-26T17:32:46Z moore33: beach: I like glop as a small portable Windows system input event handler, but it will need work to get up to McClim levels of support: no real modifer keys, etc.
2016-01-26T17:32:48Z beach: Nor how to structure the code for a backend that needs to use one system for input and another for output.
2016-01-26T17:32:57Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:34:40Z moore33: beach: I can point you in the right direction, but I need to leave soon.
2016-01-26T17:35:03Z beach: I need to leave as well.
2016-01-26T17:35:23Z beach: No rush.  I am fixing dinner.  I am not going to read any more documentation tonight.
2016-01-26T17:36:31Z TMA: beach: opening GL window is super easy with glkit. however if you need more fine grained control it might need some persuading though. https://github.com/lispgames/glkit also you could check out #lispgames IRC channel
2016-01-26T17:36:38Z zaquest joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:37:33Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:37:45Z beach: TMA: Thanks.  Let me guess: glkit is incompatible with cl-opengl which is the one that moore33 is recommending.  Am I right?
2016-01-26T17:37:55Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:38:26Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T17:38:26Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:38:26Z moore33: beach: :) glkit certainly uses cl-opengl.
2016-01-26T17:38:44Z moore33: There's really no other game in town.
2016-01-26T17:38:45Z TMA: beach: in fact it uses cl-opengl, I just checked the .asd
2016-01-26T17:39:01Z beach: OK.  I suppose that's a step in the right direction.
2016-01-26T17:40:10Z beach: Anyway, at some later date, I look forward to understanding how to use OpenGL for output and something else for input together from Common Lisp.
2016-01-26T17:40:44Z TMA: moore33: what layer are you working on? is there some preview somewhere?
2016-01-26T17:40:45Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:40:54Z moore33: beach: Individual OpenGL calls don't use a connection to the window system.
2016-01-26T17:41:12Z moore33: TMA:https://github.com/timoore/lpsg
2016-01-26T17:41:55Z beach: moore33: That doesn't sound good to me, but maybe it is.  I think you now have a good idea of my non-existing understanding of the situation.
2016-01-26T17:42:08Z psy quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-26T17:42:16Z mordocai: moore33: Have you seen cepl? Baggers started working on it again recently
2016-01-26T17:42:35Z moore33: beach: There's a think called the "current context" which is thread-local state used by OpenGL calls.
2016-01-26T17:42:43Z moore33: moore33: I've looked at it a bit.
2016-01-26T17:42:56Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:43:02Z mordocai: moore33: Well truthfully from what i've seen it looks like a better lpsg
2016-01-26T17:43:09Z beach: Anyway, I need to go.  Looking forward to learning about all this from a Common Lisp point of view.
2016-01-26T17:43:12Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-26T17:44:09Z moore33: mordocai: That is probably true at this point, and probably will be for a while, but I'm interested in exploring various rendering engine strategies.
2016-01-26T17:45:16Z mordocai: moore33: Yeah, it just seems from an outside view like both projects are trying to do the exact same thing. Not really arguing, I don't understand opengl enough yet to pick up any nuances
2016-01-26T17:47:10Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:48:01Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T17:48:03Z moore33: Gotta go.
2016-01-26T17:48:08Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-26T17:48:32Z trn joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:48:50Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:50:01Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:50:27Z ralt: oh my
2016-01-26T17:50:42Z ralt: I just helped myself by finding an old message on a mailing list I sent.
2016-01-26T17:50:48Z josemanuel quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T17:50:59Z warweasle: Question about the LGPL and quicklisp. Does using quicklisp to load a library mean it's dynamically linked?
2016-01-26T17:53:01Z jackdaniel: LGPL doesn't impose stuff on your code if it's dynamically linked
2016-01-26T17:53:32Z warweasle: jackdaniel: And loading something as a library is considered dynamic linking? It makes sense but I want to be certain.
2016-01-26T17:53:49Z rpg_ quit (Quit: rpg_)
2016-01-26T17:53:51Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:53:57Z jackdaniel: warweasle: lisp doesn't specify word linking
2016-01-26T17:54:00Z mordocai: warweasle: http://www.ifosslr.org/ifosslr/article/view/75
2016-01-26T17:54:16Z jackdaniel: but in spirit of lgpl is exactly this interpretation - loading as a library is the same as dynamic linking
2016-01-26T17:54:35Z jackdaniel: lw introduced llgpl to clarify this
2016-01-26T17:54:39Z contrapunctus: same question - can I PD my code if it has calls to Optima (LLGPL)?
2016-01-26T17:55:06Z jackdaniel: contrapunctus: yes, only changes to optima stay llgpl
2016-01-26T17:55:35Z contrapunctus: cool, thanks
2016-01-26T17:55:53Z warweasle: jackdaniel, mordocai: Thank you.
2016-01-26T17:56:05Z mordocai: jackdaniel: the article above says the llgpl is worse than the lgpl btw
2016-01-26T17:56:07Z mordocai: I agree
2016-01-26T17:56:49Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:57:43Z jackdaniel: either way using lgpl or llgpl just as a library shouldn't rise any concerns given the spirit of the licenses
2016-01-26T17:57:51Z mordocai: Indeed
2016-01-26T17:58:23Z grublet joined #lisp
2016-01-26T17:59:52Z ralt: mordocai: https://github.com/ralt/linit/commit/99666c395c18d57db698eb7916a0b9095de2422f
2016-01-26T18:00:12Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:00:14Z mordocai: ralt: Cool!
2016-01-26T18:01:00Z ralt: I haven't found a way to get compression yet... but it's not much of an issue there.
2016-01-26T18:03:00Z kopinjol quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T18:03:30Z ralt: also, I can't use (asdf:operate 'asdf:program-op :linit) because it won't let me specify where to dump the file. It'll always dump to ~/.cache/
2016-01-26T18:03:43Z ralt: (which could be cleaner...)
2016-01-26T18:04:32Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:04:33Z rpg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T18:04:41Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:08:12Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T18:08:15Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T18:09:31Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T18:10:06Z Mitzelflick: damn vmware is full of costs and slowness and parasitical companion products
2016-01-26T18:10:11Z Mitzelflick: such a huge waste
2016-01-26T18:10:13Z Mitzelflick: wow
2016-01-26T18:10:23Z atgreen: try rhev
2016-01-26T18:11:01Z atgreen: or ovirt for no cost / community support
2016-01-26T18:12:27Z Mitzelflick: rhev? ovirt hmm
2016-01-26T18:13:02Z atgreen: Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization, built on ovirt project.
2016-01-26T18:13:16Z atgreen: full dis-"closure"... I work for RH.
2016-01-26T18:13:22Z atgreen: but it's great
2016-01-26T18:13:46Z Mitzelflick: :)
2016-01-26T18:13:49Z _sjs_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:14:14Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:14:18Z Mitzelflick: how about skip virtualization and use name based vhosts
2016-01-26T18:14:22Z Mitzelflick: in the webserver
2016-01-26T18:14:24Z Mitzelflick: :)
2016-01-26T18:14:26Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T18:14:27Z Mitzelflick: bam!
2016-01-26T18:14:34Z atgreen: or containers with openshift origin
2016-01-26T18:14:42Z atgreen: bam^2
2016-01-26T18:16:22Z grublet: bam factorial
2016-01-26T18:16:26Z Guest32964 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:17:33Z hydan` is now known as hydan
2016-01-26T18:20:32Z grublet quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T18:22:32Z stokachu quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-26T18:26:41Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:28:46Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:29:52Z ggole quit
2016-01-26T18:31:08Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:32:02Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:32:32Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:34:17Z Mitzelflick: whats openshift
2016-01-26T18:34:30Z Mitzelflick: recode all in forth
2016-01-26T18:34:35Z Mitzelflick: 1% of 1% the code
2016-01-26T18:35:04Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-26T18:35:17Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:35:22Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:36:00Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-26T18:38:24Z _sjs_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T18:39:39Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:40:49Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-26T18:40:57Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:42:55Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:42:55Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T18:42:55Z araujo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:44:20Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T18:45:13Z contrapunctus quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T18:46:06Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T18:47:55Z akkad: are there any context free grammar generators for CL? https://github.com/Engelberg/instaparse
2016-01-26T18:47:56Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:48:44Z Bicyclidine: yeah, a couple. check cliki, there's like a dozen using combinators.
2016-01-26T18:48:53Z dlowe: https://github.com/dlowe-net/orcabot/src/grammar.lisp
2016-01-26T18:49:07Z Bicyclidine: 404.
2016-01-26T18:49:18Z dlowe: https://github.com/dlowe-net/orcabot/ then
2016-01-26T18:49:24Z dlowe: demonstration:
2016-01-26T18:49:34Z dlowe: .plot
2016-01-26T18:49:40Z plexi joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:49:42Z dlowe: .plot
2016-01-26T18:49:43Z plexi: A charming society of benevolent hustlers are fighting ITA Software before gentle native americans arrive. They destroy the personal artifact and escort a wise janitor to an inaccessible tomb.  When they fight against the ancient gang of genies, the secret of a valley is unearthed.
2016-01-26T18:49:49Z dlowe: .solve
2016-01-26T18:49:50Z plexi: Disk head crashes might be caused by disturbances in some of our main sail towers. We must destabilize the level 5 nano-reactor with some of our antimatter sensors.
2016-01-26T18:49:57Z Bicyclidine: I don't know if any of them have some wacky compact snobol grammar.
2016-01-26T18:50:02Z dlowe: .manage
2016-01-26T18:50:02Z plexi: To bring our "A" game, ivan4th`should be able to peel the onion across some maximally 24/7 space.
2016-01-26T18:50:05Z dlowe: .manage
2016-01-26T18:50:05Z plexi: To increase shareholder value, kruppe should be able to both maximize some profitably real-time applications and deprioritize some programmatically outside the box team members.
2016-01-26T18:50:12Z dlowe: .part #lisp
2016-01-26T18:50:13Z plexi left #lisp
2016-01-26T18:50:56Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T18:51:11Z keix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T18:51:59Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:52:23Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T18:52:32Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T18:52:35Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:53:31Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:53:39Z xificurC joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:54:12Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T18:55:53Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:57:32Z Guest57070 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T18:57:59Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-26T18:58:15Z atgreen: Mitzelflick, openshift is a PaaS platform.  It helps you deploy and manage docker container based workloads at scale.  https://www.openshift.org/
2016-01-26T18:58:43Z atgreen: I wrote some support for Common Lisp (quicklisp) based deployments in it
2016-01-26T19:02:08Z akkad: if one had to write a parser for multiline logs, like postgresql, what would be the recommended packages to investigate for building out parsing codE?
2016-01-26T19:06:36Z rpg: I'm not familiar with postgresql logs.  When you say multiline, do you mean that each log entry has multiple lines?  Is there a separator?
2016-01-26T19:07:27Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T19:07:47Z akkad: yes there is a separater
2016-01-26T19:08:13Z Guest57070 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:09:05Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:09:10Z akkad: https://gist.github.com/f22d727e15c26389d6be like that
2016-01-26T19:10:35Z rpg: I hope this won't seem like a troll response, but what I would honestly suggest is using perl as a front end to slurp the records, do some minimal reformatting, and shove them into CL.
2016-01-26T19:10:58Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T19:11:18Z rpg: perl has things like record and field separators baked into it, and you could do some tweaking there that would make a format that's easy for CL to slurp and manipulate.
2016-01-26T19:11:36Z akkad: well the colletor is already in cl to submit values to our back datastore
2016-01-26T19:12:01Z rpg: I've written a system to process snort records that way.
2016-01-26T19:12:34Z rpg: perl slurps, formats in a nice, regular way for Common Lisp, and we just pipe to a socket that CL listens to.
2016-01-26T19:13:42Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-26T19:13:55Z earl-ducaine joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:13:58Z rpg: Actually, what we do more specifically is use perl to make google protocol buffer messages and then use cl-protobuf to parse.
2016-01-26T19:14:08Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T19:14:42Z rpg: This is for an application with very high throughput -- you may not need anything that hardened.
2016-01-26T19:16:26Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:20:29Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:22:01Z jackdaniel: hrm, when I import in package A from package B symbol X  #| (:import-from :B :X) |#, then when I define class with #| :accessor x |#, it's in fact B:X ?
2016-01-26T19:23:00Z Bicyclidine: Did you expect otherwise?
2016-01-26T19:23:17Z jackdaniel: no, just ensuring
2016-01-26T19:23:49Z Bicyclidine: then yeah, i think that's how it goes. that it's an accessor doesn't matter, just that you're reading "X" with *package* = A.
2016-01-26T19:24:30Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:24:44Z jackdaniel: thanks
2016-01-26T19:24:50Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:24:56Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T19:27:06Z wz1000 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T19:30:32Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:33:38Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-26T19:36:43Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:41:14Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:42:29Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-26T19:42:42Z Indeed joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:43:08Z PuercoPop: minion: memo for beach: CLX is similar to XCB more than Xlib, as it uses sockets to communicate. Since 00's X has moved to writing directly to memory(DRI), which is something CLX is unable to do. One can at least interact with windows opened by another client as this blog post explains http://shiny-dynamics.blogspot.pe/2006/01/munching-on-opengl-in-common-lisp.html?m=1
2016-01-26T19:43:08Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-26T19:44:36Z PuercoPop: minion: memo for beach: Btw there are a couple of X extensions that CLX could use in a project by some of your past students, the eclipse window manager. The code base is well written imho, hope they got a good grade
2016-01-26T19:44:36Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-26T19:45:16Z Indeed: how would you guys go about sorting >100 GB of pdf by their library of congress catalogue number?
2016-01-26T19:45:26Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:46:04Z dlowe: Indeed: where's the number stored?
2016-01-26T19:46:09Z prxq: Indeed: cram it into postgresQL and take the evening off :-)
2016-01-26T19:46:18Z Bicyclidine: Sorting how? Like you take an undifferentiated blob of PDFs and put them in a directory tree mirroring the LoC system?
2016-01-26T19:48:01Z Indeed: Bicyclidine: pretty close they're in a myriad of subdirectories and they might have the title in the filename
2016-01-26T19:48:47Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T19:48:50Z prxq: Indeed: I presume a listing of all files is a lot smaller than 100GB
2016-01-26T19:49:22Z Indeed: dlowe: on the openlibrary website is the best place I found
2016-01-26T19:49:29Z prxq: Indeed: so basically, what is holding you back?
2016-01-26T19:49:43Z Bicyclidine: i feel like i'm missing too much information to give a quick answer, because yeah, just "sorting" seems intuitively obvious to me.
2016-01-26T19:50:19Z prxq: find . -name \*.pdf | sort > sorted.txt
2016-01-26T19:50:20Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T19:50:26Z Bicyclidine: pick a file, find the LoC number for it, throw it in the tree, continue with next file
2016-01-26T19:51:36Z prohobo_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-26T19:51:54Z Indeed: alright sounds good Bicyclidine
2016-01-26T19:54:35Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T20:00:00Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T20:01:42Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:02:14Z jchmrt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T20:03:46Z pbgc quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
2016-01-26T20:04:02Z jchmrt joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:04:15Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T20:05:38Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T20:08:49Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T20:10:02Z jostein joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:10:26Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T20:11:32Z jostein quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T20:11:47Z jostein joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:12:42Z jackdaniel: woah, I've run mcclim demo on ecl
2016-01-26T20:12:46Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:12:49Z jackdaniel: initial port is succesful
2016-01-26T20:12:50Z jackdaniel: :)
2016-01-26T20:13:07Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-26T20:13:47Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:15:41Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:16:30Z w3pm joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:18:01Z yaewa quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-26T20:21:45Z cxpp joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:23:55Z yes joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:27:36Z Indeed quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T20:30:56Z phoe_krk: yay!
2016-01-26T20:31:03Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:31:08Z phoe_krk: I finally understood the :around in CLOS!
2016-01-26T20:31:08Z setheus quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T20:31:13Z phoe_krk: and it's, well... amazing
2016-01-26T20:33:04Z setheus joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:35:15Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T20:35:17Z pjb: warweasle: whether it's dynamically linked, or whatever, just doesn't matter for copyright questions. The only thing that matters, and that the judge will decide upon, is whether your work is a derived work of the original work or not.
2016-01-26T20:37:41Z pjb: jackdaniel: it could actually be C::X !!!
2016-01-26T20:38:45Z pjb: (defpackage "C" (:use) (:intern "X")) (defpackage "B" (:use) (:import-from "C" "X") (:export "X")) (defpackage "A" (:use) (:import-from "B" "X")) 'a::x --> C::X
2016-01-26T20:39:25Z pjb: jackdaniel: the home package of a symbol is rather irrelevant.  The only thing that you should notice, is that if you import a symbol that has no home package, then the importing package becomes its home package:
2016-01-26T20:39:42Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:40:38Z pjb: (let ((s  (make-symbol "S"))) (import s "A") s) #| --> a::s |#
2016-01-26T20:42:09Z pjb: And notice, you cannot export without importing (or using): (let ((s (make-symbol "E"))) (export s "A") s) ==> The following symbols need to be imported to #<Package "A"> before they can be exported  from that package: #:e
2016-01-26T20:47:50Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:48:07Z ipmonger_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:48:15Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:48:41Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-26T20:49:43Z Denommus quit (Quit: rebooting)
2016-01-26T20:53:16Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2016-01-26T20:53:33Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-26T20:54:15Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-26T20:58:15Z clop quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T20:59:12Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-26T21:01:56Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:04:37Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T21:05:22Z prohobo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:05:44Z rpg_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:05:53Z rpg_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T21:06:19Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T21:10:24Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T21:10:40Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-26T21:10:46Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T21:10:56Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:11:03Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:12:22Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:12:24Z Warlock_29A|2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T21:14:56Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T21:14:58Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T21:15:39Z clop joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:20:51Z scottj joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:21:26Z omilu quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T21:22:51Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-26T21:23:06Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T21:24:27Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:25:51Z mishoo__ quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2016-01-26T21:26:07Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:26:44Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T21:27:56Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:28:13Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:28:22Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:29:30Z malice joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:29:58Z malice: Hey guys! I want to optimize my function, but I don't know how to express fixnum in declaim. Here's my code: http://ix.io/nWh
2016-01-26T21:30:07Z malice: How should I do it properly?
2016-01-26T21:30:44Z Bicyclidine: "express fixnum in declaim"?
2016-01-26T21:31:04Z malice: Uh, idk how to properly call it. Quick glance and you'll get what I am trying to say.
2016-01-26T21:31:25Z Bicyclidine: fraid not. well, compilers that do that kind of optimization can probably pick up that n is a fixnum from the ftype declaration. which is wrong by the way, (fixnum) isn't a type.
2016-01-26T21:32:28Z malice: Ah.
2016-01-26T21:32:43Z Bicyclidine: this is kind of a poor function to do this kind of optimization on, by the way. (factorial 21) is not a fixnum on my machine.
2016-01-26T21:33:19Z malice: True. What type would be the best fit in here?
2016-01-26T21:34:05Z Bicyclidine: I don't know. What I mean is that doing factorials is probably going to involve bignum arithmetic, which is usually intrinsically slow enough that arithmetic dispatch probably isn't a huge deal.
2016-01-26T21:34:38Z mordocai: malice: Am a deja vuing or did you ask this already weeks/months ago?
2016-01-26T21:34:43Z mordocai: Am I
2016-01-26T21:34:48Z Bicyclidine: Of course, it depends on what you need the factorial for. It's possible you only need factorials of the first twenty naturals, what do i know
2016-01-26T21:36:14Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:36:45Z scymtym_: malice: maybe look at alexandria:factorial. it has a fixnum/fast and bignum/slow path (iirc)
2016-01-26T21:37:12Z Bicyclidine: i think it does some more complicated algorithm too.
2016-01-26T21:37:24Z Bicyclidine: bisecting the range or the like
2016-01-26T21:43:04Z zygentoma quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T21:43:47Z fe[nl]ix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T21:43:47Z Blkt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T21:43:54Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:43:56Z Blkt joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:43:58Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:44:00Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T21:46:51Z kami` joined #lisp
2016-01-26T21:46:55Z kami`: Good evening.
2016-01-26T21:47:14Z kami` is now known as kami
2016-01-26T21:48:19Z kami: I'm wrestling with grovelling a struct which contains a union like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/305953
2016-01-26T21:49:00Z kami: How am I supposed to express the 'anonymous' union arg in groveller syntax?
2016-01-26T21:51:10Z synchromesh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T21:54:15Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T21:54:27Z fe[nl]ix: kami: (cstruct rule "struct rule" (realm "arg.auth.realm" :type :pointer))
2016-01-26T21:55:11Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T21:55:43Z kami: Ahh, I see. '.' or '->' are allowed.
2016-01-26T21:55:54Z kami: Thank you fe[nl]ix
2016-01-26T21:58:28Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-26T21:59:00Z warweasle quit (Quit: Got's to go eat.)
2016-01-26T22:00:00Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:02:42Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:04:27Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-26T22:05:18Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-26T22:06:15Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:11:10Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T22:11:28Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: fear)
2016-01-26T22:12:26Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:13:54Z xificurC quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-26T22:16:55Z zygentoma quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T22:18:33Z yes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T22:19:49Z Mitzelflick quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-26T22:20:07Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:21:24Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:21:50Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T22:22:57Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:23:06Z zygentoma quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-26T22:32:12Z fotdp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T22:33:21Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-26T22:34:07Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-26T22:34:31Z shka: sooo
2016-01-26T22:35:27Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:35:42Z mordocai: so
2016-01-26T22:35:59Z shka: i want to build a macro that will basicly accept two lists in assoc format, use one to build lambdas (that will call optima) and second one as arguments
2016-01-26T22:36:13Z shka: but since optima has only macro version
2016-01-26T22:36:18Z shka: i'm kinda stuck
2016-01-26T22:36:39Z shka: because i can't figure out what shuold get executed when
2016-01-26T22:36:55Z newdan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T22:37:00Z shka: and since macros won't evaluate arguments during expand
2016-01-26T22:37:37Z shka: i cant really simply pass my lambdas as argument
2016-01-26T22:37:55Z shka: how people are even dealing with this madness
2016-01-26T22:38:46Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-26T22:39:11Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T22:40:06Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:41:48Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-26T22:42:11Z pillton joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:42:21Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:42:37Z shka: http://paste.lisp.org/display/305957
2016-01-26T22:42:50Z shka: i just can't figure how i should handle this
2016-01-26T22:43:00Z shka: i just want to generate code
2016-01-26T22:43:00Z fotdp joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:43:39Z akkad: rpg: thanks. rpg looks like SOAP done properly :P
2016-01-26T22:45:56Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T22:52:23Z kami quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T22:58:09Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-26T22:58:28Z Prion_: Hie, I have a little question: Is the WHEN or UNLESS function be used a lot?
2016-01-26T22:58:38Z Prion_: Should I care about them and use them?
2016-01-26T22:59:08Z slifeet quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-26T22:59:29Z shka: Prion_: it is not function
2016-01-26T22:59:33Z shka: Prion_: it is macro
2016-01-26T22:59:45Z shka: and dunno, it is handy
2016-01-26T23:00:04Z shka: because if always requries else
2016-01-26T23:00:08Z Prion_: sorry, a special function/macro
2016-01-26T23:00:18Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:00:20Z zacharias quit (Changing host)
2016-01-26T23:00:20Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:00:43Z mordocai: Prion_: generally in my experience it is considered more idiomatic to use when/unless over if when you don't have an else.
2016-01-26T23:00:45Z Prion_: You means their body by else? Or another macro?
2016-01-26T23:00:51Z Prion_: o ok
2016-01-26T23:01:10Z Prion_: Yeah but I still can use Cond isn't it?
2016-01-26T23:01:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T23:01:53Z Prion_: Like should I really use them I can I just stick with COND?
2016-01-26T23:02:26Z Prion_: or I can**
2016-01-26T23:03:04Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:03:12Z Prion_: corrected:  Like should I really use them or can I just stick with COND even if I need an else?
2016-01-26T23:03:15Z kagtog joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:03:20Z kagtog: ahh tis a wonderful day
2016-01-26T23:03:31Z Prion_: hie kagtog
2016-01-26T23:03:34Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-26T23:04:33Z mordocai: Prion_: I mean you can use a cond, I find when/unless more expressive, but nothing is stopping you from using cond for everything
2016-01-26T23:04:59Z Prion_: mordocai: thanks. I know that I'm a little messy with my words, sorry
2016-01-26T23:06:43Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T23:06:43Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T23:07:41Z H4ns: Prion_: in general, it is good advice to use the most specific operator.  if i am reading a cond, i expect something that requires a cond.   if i read a when, i know that there is no else and no other conditionals
2016-01-26T23:08:00Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-26T23:08:24Z H4ns: Prion_: that is to say:  you can use cond whenever you like, but i'd reject your pull request when it uses cond instead of when or unless
2016-01-26T23:08:32Z Prion_: H4ns: All right; I'll try to add these macro to my toolbox
2016-01-26T23:09:51Z Prion_: Ok ok, I want to take the good habit, I'll take your advice seriously. Thanks! Because I'd rather use what I already know that to use something too precise and make mistake. I'm certainly wrong here.
2016-01-26T23:11:03Z je4i quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-26T23:11:28Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:11:54Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-26T23:12:13Z Prion_: H4ns: what is your github? I want to look at some CL code :)
2016-01-26T23:12:44Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:12:58Z H4ns: Prion_: mine is "hanshuebner", and i also help maintaining "edicl"
2016-01-26T23:13:11Z Prion_: H4ns: cool, thanks :)
2016-01-26T23:16:21Z varjagg quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-26T23:17:35Z mejja joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:18:11Z pareidolia: So umm. What's the official opinion on FORMAT being Turing complete?
2016-01-26T23:18:25Z jasom: pareidolia: it is turing complete
2016-01-26T23:18:30Z ieure: "Bad-ass"
2016-01-26T23:18:30Z jasom: pareidolia: it can make arbitrary function calls
2016-01-26T23:19:23Z pareidolia: I made it loop "indefinitely" with  (format t "~@?" "~:*~@?")
2016-01-26T23:20:52Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:22:35Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-26T23:24:01Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:27:38Z mprelude joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:32:20Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T23:36:06Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T23:36:06Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:41:41Z arbv quit
2016-01-26T23:42:04Z prohobo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-26T23:42:36Z sweater_ joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:43:00Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:43:07Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-26T23:44:46Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:44:59Z rpg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T23:45:10Z Guest75614 joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:45:26Z Guest57070 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-26T23:46:37Z mishoo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-26T23:47:57Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-26T23:54:19Z sweater_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-26T23:56:20Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:02:16Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:02:38Z Arathnim joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:02:45Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:03:26Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:07:29Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:08:22Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-27T00:10:09Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:10:26Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:10:38Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T00:11:30Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:13:42Z slifeet joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:16:15Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:20:26Z nhandler joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:21:43Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:21:59Z didi joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:22:55Z slifeet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:23:47Z didi: Hi. The channel #lisp-br has no op and we would like to give it to mario-goulart. I asked about it on #freenode and they said I should ask for the ones responsible for the lisp project. Who are they?
2016-01-27T00:23:59Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T00:24:27Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T00:26:13Z malice: mordocai: I did not ask this. Must have been someone else.
2016-01-27T00:26:28Z malice: scymtym: thanks, it worked.
2016-01-27T00:27:34Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:27:51Z Administrator is now known as Guest30909
2016-01-27T00:28:01Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:29:42Z alexherbo2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:29:42Z p_l quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:30:15Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:31:16Z p_l joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:31:22Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:33:09Z akkad quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-27T00:33:48Z kagtog quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-27T00:34:41Z Guest32964 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:35:01Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:36:05Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T00:36:07Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-27T00:37:13Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-27T00:37:50Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T00:39:26Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:43:58Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-27T00:48:39Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:21:35Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T01:25:16Z bb010g joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:25:55Z hydan quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T01:25:58Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T01:30:50Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2016-01-27T01:33:53Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:36:22Z Guthur joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:37:22Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:37:31Z Guest75614 quit (Quit: Guest75614)
2016-01-27T01:39:11Z warweasle quit (Quit: done)
2016-01-27T01:44:44Z ipmonger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T01:44:44Z ipmonger_ is now known as ipmonger
2016-01-27T01:45:08Z ipmonger_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:46:14Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T01:46:56Z over quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T01:46:56Z over joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:49:06Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:51:48Z ipmonger quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T01:52:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:52:30Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T01:52:34Z ipmonger_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T01:53:06Z test1600 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T01:53:29Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:53:44Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:54:04Z IPmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:59:38Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:59:45Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-27T01:59:50Z IPmonger is now known as _IPmonger_
2016-01-27T02:00:05Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T02:00:17Z _IPmonger_ is now known as IPmonger
2016-01-27T02:02:33Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:02:37Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:03:35Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T02:06:48Z mozart_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:11:03Z Guthur quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T02:12:59Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T02:13:08Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T02:13:10Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-27T02:13:50Z over is now known as opus
2016-01-27T02:15:05Z didi quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T02:15:52Z mejja quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-27T02:17:06Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T02:17:06Z quazimod1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T02:19:06Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:19:44Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:19:45Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:20:41Z didi joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:25:32Z quazimod1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T02:25:32Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T02:26:18Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:26:21Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:26:35Z soundobstacle quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-27T02:28:08Z loke_: Re
2016-01-27T02:28:29Z harish quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T02:28:50Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:30:58Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T02:41:38Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:46:06Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T02:48:46Z Heranort quit (Quit: Ah, my macbook is gonna sleep!)
2016-01-27T02:49:16Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T02:49:16Z quazimod1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T02:49:49Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:50:40Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:50:48Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:51:24Z eazar001 is now known as elbrujohalcon
2016-01-27T02:51:53Z elbrujohalcon is now known as eazar001
2016-01-27T02:52:38Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:52:54Z eazar001 is now known as elbrujohalcon
2016-01-27T02:53:58Z iddqd joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:54:54Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:55:00Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T02:55:09Z iddqd is now known as elbrujoh_
2016-01-27T02:56:20Z elbrujohalcon is now known as eazar001
2016-01-27T02:56:42Z elbrujoh_ is now known as iddqd
2016-01-27T03:06:01Z holycow_ quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-27T03:11:26Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T03:12:11Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:12:13Z Mitzelflick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T03:12:28Z Mitzelflick joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:12:34Z Mitzelflick: can lisp power e commerce?
2016-01-27T03:12:35Z earl-ducaine quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T03:13:34Z akkad: the IBM term?
2016-01-27T03:15:31Z aeth: I'm surprised it's still called e-commerce and not iShop or something.
2016-01-27T03:16:09Z aeth: Afaik, any language that can talk to an SQL database and a web server can power e-commerce.
2016-01-27T03:16:18Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T03:17:15Z pillton: Why does it have to be SQL?
2016-01-27T03:19:38Z aeth: If SQL and web server, then e-commerce. That's the one-way → arrow in logic
2016-01-27T03:20:15Z aeth: You don't need either for e-commerce, but either can provide e-commerce. e.g. you could use a server to talk to an app frontend and not use a web server.
2016-01-27T03:20:47Z aeth: I guess the only necessary element is Internet connectivity.
2016-01-27T03:21:57Z edgar-rft: With lisp you could pay in bit-cons!
2016-01-27T03:22:37Z pillton: boom!
2016-01-27T03:24:23Z aeth: Someone missed the opportunity to make a few hundred thousand in making a "bitcoin... but in Lisp!" altcoin back when there were hundreds being launched in pump and dumps around 2011-2012 or so.
2016-01-27T03:24:39Z aeth: "Foo... but in Lisp" is a good way to get on the front page of HN
2016-01-27T03:31:06Z test1600 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T03:31:06Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:36:30Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:38:15Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T03:38:19Z akkad: edgar-rft: bad advice. bit-consing is expensive
2016-01-27T03:39:47Z kushal quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-27T03:40:58Z edgar-rft: akkad: pssssh! I'm trying my best to bring down western civilisation.
2016-01-27T03:41:29Z akkad: standing in Japan, the west is china
2016-01-27T03:41:31Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:42:29Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:44:03Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:44:50Z jasom: aeth: rust/go/new hotness is better than bit in lisp
2016-01-27T03:46:27Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:49:19Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:49:42Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T03:50:55Z Mitzelflick: why not lisp data structures
2016-01-27T03:50:59Z Mitzelflick: fuck sql skip it
2016-01-27T03:51:05Z Mitzelflick: take that big box and run a big lisp
2016-01-27T03:51:27Z Mitzelflick: logic in ram with snapshots, and blobs on raid 10 sas
2016-01-27T03:51:30Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T03:52:03Z Mitzelflick: mogileFS could be redone in lisp
2016-01-27T03:52:18Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:52:26Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-27T03:52:26Z minion: beach, memo from PuercoPop: CLX is similar to XCB more than Xlib, as it uses sockets to communicate. Since 00's X has moved to writing directly to memory(DRI), which is something CLX is unable to do. One can at least interact with windows opened by another client as this blog post explains http://shiny-dynamics.blogspot.pe/2006/01/munching-on-opengl-in-common-lisp.html?m=1
2016-01-27T03:52:26Z minion: beach, memo from PuercoPop: Btw there are a couple of X extensions that CLX could use in a project by some of your past students, the eclipse window manager. The code base is well written imho, hope they got a good grade
2016-01-27T03:52:56Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T03:54:38Z beach: PuercoPop: They got an excellent grade.  If you look at McCLIM code, you will see their names in many places.
2016-01-27T03:56:11Z learning joined #lisp
2016-01-27T03:56:19Z Mitzelflick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T03:57:21Z w3pm quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-27T03:58:45Z nyef: Hello beach.
2016-01-27T03:58:52Z learning: I'd like to call my function like: (generate-dates '(1900 2000) '(1 12) '(1 1)))
2016-01-27T03:58:53Z learning: And define the function like:  (defun generate-dates ((year-start year-end) (month-start month-end) (day-start day-end))...
2016-01-27T03:58:53Z learning: Is this possible?
2016-01-27T03:59:15Z beach: No
2016-01-27T03:59:57Z learning: is there any close equivalent?
2016-01-27T04:00:24Z pillton: clhs destructuring-bind
2016-01-27T04:00:24Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_destru.htm
2016-01-27T04:00:32Z Bike: you can do (defun generate-dates (&rest args) (destructuring-bind ((year-start year-end) (month-start month-end) (day-start day-end)) args ...)) but i dunno
2016-01-27T04:02:32Z learning: is there a commonly accepted way of getting the last element of a list?  I'm currently using:  (first (last years))
2016-01-27T04:02:47Z Bike: that's pretty usual.
2016-01-27T04:05:07Z didi: (&rest args) reminds me of :allow-other-keys, but more hardcore.
2016-01-27T04:05:48Z nyef: didi: (&rest args &key key-1 key-2 &allow-other-keys) has a definite purpose.
2016-01-27T04:06:16Z didi: nyef: Needs &optional too.
2016-01-27T04:06:54Z beach: nyef: Perhaps you missed the discussion that took place around 11 hours ago about backends for GUI toolkits, in which I explained my confusion.  Since that discussion, I have understood what my problem is.
2016-01-27T04:07:00Z beach: For me, life (or what remains of mine) is too short to spend looking at Common Lisp documentation that requires me to then look at some C-language documentation and then translate to some FFI conventions, and to debug the combination of Common Lisp and some other language.
2016-01-27T04:07:02Z beach: I am even less interested in reading two different sets of C-language documentation, one for output and another for input, and then trying to combine the two for my Common Lisp software.
2016-01-27T04:07:27Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:08:57Z beach: nyef: So I will stick to writing backends for CLX which is somewhat well documented and phrased in terms of Common Lisp.  I will leave the more spiffy backends to people who don't care as much as I do how they spend the rest of their lives.
2016-01-27T04:09:30Z nyef: Sounds like a reasonable approach to me.
2016-01-27T04:10:10Z learning: this is the piece of code i'm trying to clean up: http://pastebin.com/iryxGpd0
2016-01-27T04:10:11Z beach: nyef: I will get back to the more spiffy ones when someone writes a fully-documented library with a plausible Common Lisp protocol to access it and that does not rely on references to FFI.
2016-01-27T04:10:20Z learning: any advice or commentary is appreciated
2016-01-27T04:10:59Z beach: learning: Indentation is wrong.
2016-01-27T04:11:02Z Bike: learning: Can you enter more than two years or months or whatever?
2016-01-27T04:11:10Z beach: learning: What are you using to indent your code?
2016-01-27T04:11:27Z learning: what's wrong with the indentation
2016-01-27T04:11:35Z didi: beach: Maybe if said library didn't mention the C bits at all.
2016-01-27T04:11:44Z beach: didi: Yes, exactly.
2016-01-27T04:12:01Z beach: learning: Too many positions.  4 rather than 2.
2016-01-27T04:12:03Z learning: no bike
2016-01-27T04:12:12Z Arathnim: Using 'collect' rather than push would be a good start.
2016-01-27T04:12:22Z beach: learning: the DO should be first on a new line.
2016-01-27T04:12:25Z Bike: learning: you can just do (loop for year from (first years) to (second years) ...) then.
2016-01-27T04:13:11Z learning: it didn't seem to collect up the chain when i did that arathnim, do i collect on the loops themselves as well?  ie: collect (loop .... collect (loop....?
2016-01-27T04:14:02Z learning: thanks bike, that's a great idea
2016-01-27T04:14:06Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:14:16Z |3b| quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T04:14:24Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:14:35Z Bike: you'd append in the outer loops and collect in the inner one.
2016-01-27T04:15:01Z didi: beach: I have some failed attempts on that. You can even run the GUI without blocking the REPL. But the impedance difference between lisp and C is too much for me. Invariably I get overwhelmed by it.
2016-01-27T04:15:54Z beach: didi: Some attempts on the kind of programming I can't see myself doing?
2016-01-27T04:16:11Z beach: didi: Then I fully understand why you get overwhelmed.
2016-01-27T04:17:00Z zacts joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:17:05Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:19:08Z didi: beach: The last time I got stuck on automatic reclaiming memory because I didn't want to wrapper every object. It was not fun.
2016-01-27T04:19:20Z didi: Anyway...
2016-01-27T04:19:23Z beach: I feel your pain.
2016-01-27T04:19:33Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:19:39Z beach: What I COULD see myself doing would be to define a CLX-like (though higher level, simpler, and using more CLOS) library that would then itself have backends (written by others) using spiffy FFI rendering tools.  Such a library would be sort of a common backend for Common Lisp GUI toolkits.
2016-01-27T04:20:18Z learning: thanks blake, i updated it to use append and collect
2016-01-27T04:20:25Z learning: bike* sorry
2016-01-27T04:20:42Z justicefries joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:23:25Z learning: beach my indentation in my editor is 2 (might be screwed up because of pastebin), but the lines that directly follow a loop declaration are alligned to the first word after loop (in this case "for") because that's what i've seen in examples. is that correct indentation?
2016-01-27T04:24:11Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:25:12Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:25:14Z beach: learning: Not sure what you mean.  But the typical style is to have each LOOP clause start a new line (except the one that is on the same line as the LOOP symbol itself), so that DO would be first on a line by itself.
2016-01-27T04:25:55Z beach: learning: And the LOOP keywords starting a new LOOP clause would all be aligned.
2016-01-27T04:26:10Z beach: ... so that the DO is aligned under that FOR, etc, etc.
2016-01-27T04:26:32Z beach: This is what SLIME-INDENTATION does, so by using it, you don't have to think about it.
2016-01-27T04:27:02Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:27:11Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:27:44Z learning: ok thanks. i was just going by seibel's example: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html
2016-01-27T04:27:52Z didi quit (Quit: you can't /fire me, I /quit)
2016-01-27T04:28:04Z learning: but im sure most people use slime-indentation so thank you for pointing that out
2016-01-27T04:28:16Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:29:58Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:30:15Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:32:35Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:33:30Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:34:35Z beach: learning: I am in a rotten mood, so I will refrain from saying too much, because otherwise what I say will be a bit harsh.  That web page uses inconsistent indentation, which is not good.  I am not sure what Peter was thinking when he created it.
2016-01-27T04:35:17Z beach: learning: Do you know how to obtain slime-indentation?
2016-01-27T04:35:35Z Guest30909 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:35:51Z beach: learning: I have this in my .emacs: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-tramp slime-asdf slime-indentation))
2016-01-27T04:36:18Z aeth: jasom: Yes, I was referring to HN in 2012. Unfortunately, Lisp news is rarer there now. Idk why I even check the site anymore.
2016-01-27T04:36:47Z learning: i'm using vim, i'm not ready to overcome the hassle of learning another editor yet
2016-01-27T04:37:16Z learning: emacs is on my procrastination list
2016-01-27T04:37:38Z aeth: I would have a procrastination list but I'm busy. Maybe some day.
2016-01-27T04:37:42Z beach: learning: Then we have a problem, because if you want to submit code for others to read, you either have to figure out how to make vim indent correctly, or you have a huge burden of doing it manually.
2016-01-27T04:38:14Z learning: i mean it's indented correctly in my editor
2016-01-27T04:38:41Z beach: learning: I believe you.  I have no way of knowing.
2016-01-27T04:39:18Z learning: when i used the topic's paste it was really really bad, hence i used pastebin which was a slight improvement
2016-01-27T04:39:26Z learning: i probably just need to replace my tabs with spaces
2016-01-27T04:39:31Z beach: learning: Use lisppaste instead.
2016-01-27T04:39:32Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T04:40:03Z beach: minion: Please tell learning about lisppaste.
2016-01-27T04:40:04Z minion: learning: look at lisppaste: lisppaste is an IRC bot that runs under the nickname "lisppaste" and can be used (only for the #lisp IRC channel!) at http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp - or http://paste.lisp.org/ for other destinations
2016-01-27T04:40:08Z learning: yeah that's the one in the topic, that was much worse than pastebin
2016-01-27T04:40:37Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:40:43Z learning: does it not show up for you correctly when you view it on pastebin, or is it an issue when you copy paste it into emacs?
2016-01-27T04:40:44Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:40:53Z resttime` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:42:02Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T04:43:26Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:43:27Z beach: learning: http://metamodular.com/pastebin.png
2016-01-27T04:43:34Z Administrator joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:43:58Z Administrator is now known as Guest90951
2016-01-27T04:44:02Z beach: learning: As you can see, the docstring and the (LET are both indented 4 positions compared to (DEFUN.
2016-01-27T04:44:04Z learning: yeah that's just pastebin garbage
2016-01-27T04:44:17Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:44:23Z beach: learning: So how is pastebin better than lisppaste then?
2016-01-27T04:44:43Z learning: pastebin indented like 8 spaces per tab or something crazy
2016-01-27T04:45:07Z learning: i changed my editor to use spaces instead of tabs when editing lisp files, so hopefully that fixes future issues
2016-01-27T04:45:44Z learning: lisppaste indented like***
2016-01-27T04:46:08Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:48:19Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-27T04:51:03Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-27T04:52:33Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:53:19Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-27T04:53:53Z kenanb: is there a way to reference a package that is not defined yet and make the reader accept it?
2016-01-27T04:55:06Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T04:55:07Z Bike: kenanb: Sometimes you can do things like replace (foo:bar ...) with (funcall (find-symbol "BAR" "FOO") ...).
2016-01-27T04:55:47Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T04:57:13Z Zhivago: kenanb: Why is it not defined yet?
2016-01-27T04:57:24Z kenanb: I defined an asdf:system subclass in my system x, definition of system y uses it as its system definition class, therefore it defsystem-depends-on system x, but since packages defined in system x are not there yet, reader errors before asdf even tries to load the dependent system x
2016-01-27T04:58:16Z kenanb: Bike: I use that in some other places, but in this particular case, asdf:defsystem's :class option is a quoted class name, so it doesn't evaluate :\
2016-01-27T04:59:32Z kenanb: so asdf defsystem-depends-on works in theory, but it doesn't work in practice as long as the class option is quoted :\
2016-01-27T05:01:08Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T05:02:16Z kenanb: hah, solved it
2016-01-27T05:02:30Z kenanb: turns out :class option accepts string as an argument
2016-01-27T05:03:07Z kenanb: so I can refer to the class as a string and bypass reader error
2016-01-27T05:03:15Z kenanb: ASDF is cool :)
2016-01-27T05:03:27Z kenanb: thanks Zhivago, Bike :)
2016-01-27T05:04:00Z iddqd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-27T05:04:11Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T05:05:56Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T05:17:26Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-27T05:19:48Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T05:23:53Z cxpp: Hi friends
2016-01-27T05:24:47Z kenanb: hi cxpp
2016-01-27T05:24:50Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T05:25:07Z cxpp: I'm new to lisp and fp in general.  Do you have any recommendations on how to start learning lisp?
2016-01-27T05:26:15Z learning: i'm also learning lisp. I found https://github.com/google/lisp-koans  really helpful
2016-01-27T05:26:16Z kenanb: Practical Common Lisp
2016-01-27T05:27:54Z learning: went through it with a pencil and paper. PCL is a lot more text than code and covers a lot of edge cases and language details. I found it a lot more readable after actually writing code.
2016-01-27T05:28:08Z Kenjin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T05:29:31Z cxpp: I was going through the clojure koans and found it was somewhat fruitless since I wasn't actually building anything.  I would go koan to koan looking up documentation on how it works to solve the problem
2016-01-27T05:30:20Z learning: if you're learning clojure then sign up for this: http://www.clojuregazette.com/
2016-01-27T05:30:39Z learning: and check out: http://www.lispcast.com/
2016-01-27T05:30:58Z django_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T05:30:59Z cxpp: My thoughts are to either 1 suck it up and do the lessons or 2 redo a previous simple project in CL.  Leaning towards the latter
2016-01-27T05:31:01Z django_: what up
2016-01-27T05:31:33Z cxpp: Thanks for the information learning
2016-01-27T05:31:38Z Zhivago: Practical problems aren't always particularly educational.
2016-01-27T05:31:49Z learning: i really liked this article on functional programming: http://www.lispcast.com/imperative-mindset
2016-01-27T05:31:52Z Zhivago: Sometimes useless snippets can illustrate clearly.
2016-01-27T05:32:11Z django_: how do you guys feel about paul graham>
2016-01-27T05:32:25Z cxpp: Any data junkies in here that use CL?
2016-01-27T05:32:30Z oleo_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T05:33:18Z johnf quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T05:33:43Z kenanb: cxpp: Practical Common Lisp teaches the language by simple projects. Try it.
2016-01-27T05:34:22Z cxpp: kenanb: Thanks.  I'll check it out
2016-01-27T05:35:16Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-27T05:36:51Z learning quit
2016-01-27T05:37:27Z edgar-rft: cxpp: this page will save you a lot of time: <http://www.cliki.net/Getting%20Started>
2016-01-27T05:39:04Z cxpp: edgar-rft: Thanks
2016-01-27T05:42:20Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T05:46:54Z |3b|````` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T05:48:04Z bolichep quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T05:48:34Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T05:50:08Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-27T05:56:20Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-27T05:59:08Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T05:59:25Z beach: nyef: Still around?
2016-01-27T05:59:37Z django_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T06:00:53Z beach: nyef: In CLX, there is a custom declaration named CLX-VALUE.  As far as I can tell, only Genera does something with it, and what it does seems similar to the purpose of declaring FTYPE.  Should CLX-VALUE be removed and replaced by FTYPE proclamations?
2016-01-27T06:03:56Z setheus quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:05:10Z setheus joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:05:43Z Kenjin joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:07:26Z Kenjin quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T06:08:00Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:08:16Z resttime joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:08:36Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:10:16Z resttime` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:10:44Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T06:11:02Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:14:39Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:15:37Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:18:34Z emaczen joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:21:48Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:25:56Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T06:27:36Z mozart_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:28:21Z kenanb left #lisp
2016-01-27T06:28:54Z whiteline_ is now known as whiteline
2016-01-27T06:30:33Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-27T06:33:53Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:37:16Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T06:37:55Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:42:58Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:43:41Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:44:30Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T06:47:56Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:48:25Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:49:56Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:50:57Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-27T06:53:54Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:57:47Z eazar001 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T06:58:40Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:59:29Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:59:44Z Guest32964 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T06:59:58Z clintm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T07:02:20Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T07:03:23Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:05:39Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:07:36Z emaczen: Any recommendations as to what I should bind "slime-inspect-definition" to?
2016-01-27T07:07:48Z emaczen: I am talking about emacs keybindings
2016-01-27T07:16:12Z z0d: I know it's not helping, but just use whatever you feel comfortable
2016-01-27T07:16:22Z z0d: e.g. I rebind M-.
2016-01-27T07:17:34Z z0d: ,dk M-.
2016-01-27T07:18:01Z z0d: it's find-tag, even in Lisp mode, which is silly
2016-01-27T07:18:14Z z0d: I bind it to find-function
2016-01-27T07:18:42Z z0d: but anyway... my point is: don't be afraid of rebinding unused chords
2016-01-27T07:18:51Z z0d: I also use M-o for other-windo
2016-01-27T07:19:13Z z0d: Emacs is the customizable editor after all!
2016-01-27T07:19:26Z jdz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:19:42Z emaczen` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:20:20Z z0d: emaczen`: did you see my reply?
2016-01-27T07:20:55Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:21:18Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T07:21:25Z alexherbo2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T07:21:25Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T07:22:23Z Guest32964 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T07:23:59Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:24:19Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:25:05Z cxpp quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T07:27:12Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:27:44Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:29:00Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:35:50Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T07:36:38Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T07:39:47Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-27T07:41:03Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T07:42:29Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:45:01Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:45:39Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-27T07:47:06Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T07:49:24Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T07:54:41Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T07:56:43Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:01:45Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T08:04:35Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T08:04:43Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:04:54Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-27T08:11:47Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:17:19Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:27:32Z freehck joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:33:39Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:33:41Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:34:49Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:45:26Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T08:46:41Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:47:14Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T08:48:10Z ukari joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:51:50Z ukari quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T08:52:58Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:57:03Z coyo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T08:57:25Z coyo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:57:43Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:59:03Z prohobo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T08:59:31Z quazimod1 quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-27T08:59:32Z quazimodo quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-27T09:02:18Z nostoi joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:04:14Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:07:32Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:08:02Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:10:39Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T09:11:53Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:13:48Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T09:14:23Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:15:25Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:16:24Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:20:06Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T09:22:15Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T09:22:23Z emaczen` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T09:23:28Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:26:04Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:27:12Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T09:27:44Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T09:30:14Z killmaster joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:30:42Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:32:18Z Guest90951 quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-27T09:37:42Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:38:34Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:42:42Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:43:15Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T09:45:56Z killmaster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T09:46:30Z nostoi quit (Quit: Verlassend.)
2016-01-27T09:47:11Z killmaster joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:51:34Z peppermachete quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T09:52:52Z prohobo: lisp!
2016-01-27T09:54:11Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:55:02Z ralt: lithp!
2016-01-27T09:56:49Z peppermachete joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:57:37Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T09:58:04Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T09:58:35Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T09:59:53Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:00:38Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:06:11Z karswell` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:09:55Z djh: I realise this risks starting a holy war, but I'm an optimist.. I've been using vim far too long to switch to emacs, but I don't get on with slimv. Has anyone any opinions/experience of using evil mode + slime as a "slime from vi" option?
2016-01-27T10:11:36Z arnsholt: evil is an OK emulation of vim. It doesn't reproduce everything perfectly (for example I keep tripping over ^W behaving slightly differently in emacs), but it makes life with emacs *a lot* easier if you're a vim user
2016-01-27T10:12:02Z arnsholt: Never used it with slime though, so can't help you there
2016-01-27T10:12:32Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T10:14:55Z djh: well, that's better than "hahaha evil sucks!" at any rate :)
2016-01-27T10:15:38Z splittist: What is it that you want to use slime for? Can you get there by cutting and pasting to an enhanced repl?
2016-01-27T10:15:41Z ralt: well, spacemacs exists, so there's definitely space for this kind of thing
2016-01-27T10:16:16Z moore33: I want "brainmacs."
2016-01-27T10:16:39Z ralt: eats your macs?
2016-01-27T10:16:58Z moore33: Emacs has already eaten my brain, so not much left.
2016-01-27T10:17:14Z resttime quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-27T10:17:33Z djh: splittist: Tough question. TBH, I haven't used slime yet, so I don't know enough about it to know what I need it for. But I keep seeing "You *need* slime for serious Lisp" so...
2016-01-27T10:17:35Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T10:17:35Z moore33: I think I'm going on 30 years of using Emacs, tho' not GNU all that time.
2016-01-27T10:17:43Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:18:09Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:18:21Z moore33: djh: It's very nice, yes.
2016-01-27T10:18:28Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:18:32Z bogwonch quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T10:19:32Z djh: e.g. the Recipes book "Your best bets are Emacs with SLIME or a Lisp IDE"
2016-01-27T10:20:17Z djh: atm I'm just learning so editing the file and loading it in the repl works for me
2016-01-27T10:20:42Z djh: but it's a bit limiting even now
2016-01-27T10:21:58Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:22:13Z antoszka: djh: 11:09:54 < djh> I realise this risks starting a holy war, but I'm an optimist..
2016-01-27T10:22:24Z antoszka: djh: Have you considered trying spacemacs?
2016-01-27T10:22:41Z antoszka: djh: install, enable the 'common-lisp layer.
2016-01-27T10:22:43Z moore33: djh: Every aspect of what you can do with Slime is liberating. Define and evaluate forms from your files directly after you type them, navigate to definitions and callers, drop into an inspector from the debugger, etc. I don't know if any of this is unique to Lisp these days, but it is 100s of times better than loading files at a repl.
2016-01-27T10:22:51Z djh: antoszka: I'm open to any suggestions - I've not even heard of spacemacs
2016-01-27T10:23:02Z antoszka: djh: And you're pretty much good to go.
2016-01-27T10:23:27Z antoszka: djh: It's, how to put it, a distribution of emacs without emacs :)
2016-01-27T10:23:32Z djh: O_o
2016-01-27T10:23:35Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T10:23:45Z karswell` is now known as karswell
2016-01-27T10:23:49Z splittist: djh: you can add some shortcuts to the repl tailored to your particular project. (rl) to reload, for example. You could add a macro in vim to save the last/enclosing top-level-form to 'temp.lisp' then a keystroke or so in your repl to compile and load that. etc.
2016-01-27T10:24:21Z antoszka: djh: As in, you provide the emacs binary, but spacemacs gives you a very nicely preconfigured environment, with a high quality selection of packages (curated/updated by the project community)
2016-01-27T10:24:44Z antoszka: djh: with one of the main ideas is including nicely integrated throughout vim emulation
2016-01-27T10:25:20Z antoszka: djh: So you get great vim emulation, emacs on steroids and ready-to-go common lisp environment in a few clicks.
2016-01-27T10:25:25Z antoszka: Well, few keystrokes.
2016-01-27T10:26:24Z djh: I'll look into it, ty
2016-01-27T10:28:27Z antoszka: Obviously, people who have hand-tuned their emacs environment for years could be rightfully skeptical about getting a totally new big config with somebody else's presets and choice of libraries, but since you're a vim person this could be a good starting point. I highly recommend it.
2016-01-27T10:29:22Z djh: I'll certainly check it out, ty
2016-01-27T10:30:48Z kephasp joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:32:00Z Baggers quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T10:32:44Z kephasp: I'm trying to use the esrap packrat parsing library and i'm wondering if I understand packrat parsing…
2016-01-27T10:32:49Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T10:33:14Z kephasp: I defined a function that consumes non-whitespace and a non-terminal with it
2016-01-27T10:33:30Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:33:32Z kephasp: I want to parse "foo:bar" as ("foo" ":" "bar")
2016-01-27T10:34:35Z kephasp: so I did (defrule field (and non-whitespace ":" non-whitespace))
2016-01-27T10:35:32Z kephasp: I expected esrap to backtrack and apply my non-whitespace-consuming function to decreasingly large portions of the text until it doesn't consume the ":"
2016-01-27T10:35:52Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:35:58Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T10:37:17Z H4ns: not knowing esrap and coming from regular expressions, i'd expect the opposite:  the longest possible match would win unless i explicitly ask for the shortest match.
2016-01-27T10:37:32Z kephasp: but it doesn't (it reports being at the end of input while wanting to parse subexpression ":")
2016-01-27T10:38:00Z kephasp: OK, wasn't that the point of packrat parsing?
2016-01-27T10:38:38Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:40:53Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T10:43:05Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:43:12Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:47:22Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T10:48:24Z kopinjol joined #lisp
2016-01-27T10:56:40Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T10:58:26Z kopinjol quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:00:06Z troydm joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:01:41Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:02:38Z helio quit
2016-01-27T11:02:47Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:04:59Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T11:05:12Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:07:31Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:13:29Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:13:53Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:14:09Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:14:18Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:15:00Z kenanb: how can I do the kind of translations cl-fad:pathname-as-file cl-fad:pathname-as-directory does using uiop instead?
2016-01-27T11:15:48Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:16:16Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:17:46Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:18:33Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:19:53Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-27T11:19:54Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:20:32Z ralt: kenanb: I can't find anything built-in, but it's really something like (defun pathname-as-directory (pathname) (pathname (uiop:strcat (namestring pathname) "/"))) or something similar
2016-01-27T11:20:35Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:22:03Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:22:06Z someone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:22:37Z Viaken quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:23:07Z synchromesh: kenanb: Read all about it: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-portable-pathname-library.html
2016-01-27T11:23:09Z lieven quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:23:09Z dim quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:23:09Z lxpz quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:23:09Z tkd quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:24:12Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:24:46Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:25:42Z kenanb: ralt synchromesh thank you! I was thinking maybe currently provided functionality in UIOP implicitly lets you do that without any intermediate definition but you are right, I doesn't look like so
2016-01-27T11:25:44Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:26:20Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:28:28Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:28:34Z someone joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:28:42Z dim joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:28:56Z someone is now known as Guest38712
2016-01-27T11:30:37Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:30:48Z tkd joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:31:10Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:32:45Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:34:53Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:35:32Z Viaken joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:35:46Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:36:41Z lxpz joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:36:45Z lieven joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:37:58Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:39:10Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:41:18Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:41:39Z |3b|````` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:42:51Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:43:12Z Heranort_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T11:43:27Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:43:50Z jostein:  /window list
2016-01-27T11:44:00Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:44:37Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:45:35Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:45:54Z |3b|````` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:47:43Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:47:55Z Heranort_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:48:02Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:48:29Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:49:51Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:51:47Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T11:52:00Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:54:08Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T11:56:16Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T11:58:24Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T12:00:33Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:01:32Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:02:41Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T12:04:36Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:04:49Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:05:51Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T12:06:57Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T12:08:47Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:08:50Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:09:06Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:10:16Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:10:52Z sjl__ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:11:15Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T12:11:34Z zaquest joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:12:50Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T12:13:23Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:14:33Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:14:42Z sjl__ is now known as sjl
2016-01-27T12:15:31Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T12:17:05Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:17:40Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:18:37Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:19:15Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T12:19:32Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-27T12:19:47Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T12:21:56Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:24:04Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T12:24:31Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:25:25Z fu7mu4 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:32:31Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T12:34:40Z sebboh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:36:48Z sebboh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T12:39:44Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:43:03Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:43:03Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T12:43:03Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-27T12:45:52Z prohobo: lisp!
2016-01-27T12:47:00Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T12:47:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T12:51:47Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T12:54:32Z josteink quit (Quit: cya later irssi)
2016-01-27T12:54:58Z jostein is now known as josteink
2016-01-27T12:54:59Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T12:55:43Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T13:00:32Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:00:52Z didi joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:02:20Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:02:57Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:02:57Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T13:02:57Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:07:48Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T13:09:17Z jackdaniel:  /window lisp
2016-01-27T13:09:33Z antoszka: jackdaniel: But you're here already :)
2016-01-27T13:10:27Z sjl__ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:10:39Z dwchandler: (irc::window 'lisp)
2016-01-27T13:11:37Z prohobo: wat
2016-01-27T13:11:45Z prohobo: you can switch windows according to channel name?
2016-01-27T13:11:47Z prohobo: lies
2016-01-27T13:12:41Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:14:29Z dwchandler: depending on your client, you might be able to '/join #lisp' and have it switch to the proper window.
2016-01-27T13:15:11Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:17:56Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:20:26Z test1600_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T13:20:48Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:20:59Z test1600 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T13:20:59Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:21:26Z kephasp quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:23:33Z test1600 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T13:24:17Z splittist: vecto is a pleasure to work with. Thanks, Xach!
2016-01-27T13:26:25Z ss1891 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:29:41Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:30:35Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:31:36Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:32:31Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:32:36Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:33:56Z kenanb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:41:03Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:46:23Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:47:21Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T13:47:38Z karswell` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:49:26Z aeth quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:52:41Z karswell` is now known as karswell
2016-01-27T13:54:20Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:55:01Z phoe_krk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:55:09Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:55:10Z phoe_krk_ is now known as phoe_krk
2016-01-27T13:55:46Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:56:04Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:56:47Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-27T13:58:12Z ss1891 quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-27T13:58:24Z porky11 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T13:58:46Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T14:01:16Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:06:05Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:08:23Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-27T14:10:57Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:11:35Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T14:12:32Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:13:59Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T14:14:14Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:19:12Z jeaye_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:19:50Z jeaye_ is now known as jeaye
2016-01-27T14:20:46Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:25:15Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T14:27:06Z sjl__ is now known as sjl
2016-01-27T14:28:53Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:30:46Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:31:24Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:33:10Z phoe_krk: why would emacs give me a wrong paren count?
2016-01-27T14:33:25Z didi: phoe_krk: Bug?
2016-01-27T14:33:26Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T14:33:40Z phoe_krk: didi: let me screenshot
2016-01-27T14:33:57Z didi: phoe_krk: I prefer text, if it is possible.
2016-01-27T14:34:17Z phoe_krk: I don't know how to express that in text.
2016-01-27T14:34:17Z phoe_krk: http://i.imgur.com/5zDuswb.png
2016-01-27T14:34:30Z phoe_krk: The bottom window.
2016-01-27T14:34:34Z alex`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T14:34:50Z phoe_krk: Seems like > gets wrongly highlighted for some reason.
2016-01-27T14:35:17Z didi: This is one of the reasons I prefer text: I can't paste your code here and see what my Emacs does with it.
2016-01-27T14:35:48Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-27T14:37:31Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:37:54Z phoe_krk: Uhhh.
2016-01-27T14:38:15Z phoe_krk: (defmacro while (test &body body) `(do ()((not ,test)),@body))
2016-01-27T14:38:23Z phoe_krk: (macroexpand-1 '(while (> x 0) (format t "~D " (decf x))))
2016-01-27T14:38:43Z didi: phoe_krk: It matches fine here.
2016-01-27T14:38:48Z Munksgaard: Does your emacs contract >= to  			≤ 		 ?
2016-01-27T14:38:54Z Munksgaard: phoe_krk: ^
2016-01-27T14:38:55Z phoe_krk: No, it's >
2016-01-27T14:39:08Z phoe_krk: didi: I think I screwed up my emacs config, then.
2016-01-27T14:39:13Z phoe_krk: I'll redo it someday.
2016-01-27T14:39:20Z didi: I see.
2016-01-27T14:39:37Z jeaye quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-27T14:39:54Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:40:09Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:42:13Z jfe joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:43:12Z phoe_krk: okay, um. what's the canonical way of updating swank?
2016-01-27T14:44:06Z phoe_krk: My emacs is telling me: versions differ, slime vs swank.
2016-01-27T14:45:31Z jackdaniel: phoe_krk: just use slime-helper from ql, not melpa
2016-01-27T14:45:39Z didi: phoe_krk: You might be using your system's and Quicklisp's SLIME at the same time.
2016-01-27T14:45:57Z didi: Oh, SLIME is on MELPA too?
2016-01-27T14:46:26Z jackdaniel: didi: not sure
2016-01-27T14:47:04Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T14:47:39Z jackdaniel: minion: memo for beach: I've made a pull request on McCLIM's github with the initial support for ECL (w/o mp yet, because I want to provide general  bordeaux-threads backend, I'm half way there)
2016-01-27T14:47:39Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-27T14:49:09Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:49:33Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:50:00Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T14:51:46Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T14:54:04Z bolichep quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-27T14:54:13Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-27T14:54:16Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:54:22Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:54:37Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:54:43Z NeverDie quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T14:54:54Z Guest38712 is now known as someone
2016-01-27T14:56:31Z phoe_krk: Couldn't load "/usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank-loader.lisp": file does not exist.
2016-01-27T14:56:40Z phoe_krk: That's after making apt remove cl-swank.
2016-01-27T14:56:59Z phoe_krk: I actually pulled a new slime from MELPA now.
2016-01-27T14:57:14Z phoe_krk: But why does it try to try and grab a system-wide copy now that it has its own one?
2016-01-27T14:57:37Z didi: As a side node, I use the SLIME from Debian. It works great for me.
2016-01-27T14:57:56Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-27T14:58:22Z antoszka: phoe_krk: → #lisp-pl
2016-01-27T14:58:32Z jackdaniel: phoe_krk: change path in .sbclrc
2016-01-27T14:58:42Z prohobo: lisp!
2016-01-27T14:58:46Z jackdaniel: ,hue
2016-01-27T14:59:06Z z0d: didi: isn't than an old version?
2016-01-27T14:59:15Z didi: z0d: Probably.
2016-01-27T14:59:36Z didi: At least, older than bleeding edge.
2016-01-27T15:01:15Z didi: z0d: Apparently, 2.10.1
2016-01-27T15:01:41Z antoszka: YMMV, my rule of the thumb for various linux distros is to install only your CL implementation from the distro packaging system, and go with everything else from quicklisp/emacs/spacemacs.
2016-01-27T15:02:00Z antoszka: That's worked for me on Gentoo, Ubuntu/Debian and Redhat/Fedora.
2016-01-27T15:02:09Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:02:25Z z0d: that's from October 2014
2016-01-27T15:02:40Z didi: I've been happy using Debian lisp packages.
2016-01-27T15:03:08Z antoszka: That's why I said YMMV.
2016-01-27T15:03:13Z didi: Sure.
2016-01-27T15:03:18Z z0d: yep
2016-01-27T15:04:25Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:04:25Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T15:04:25Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:04:55Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:05:34Z prohobo: spacemacs! lisp!
2016-01-27T15:05:42Z prohobo: dr. spaceman
2016-01-27T15:06:07Z prohobo: okay ill stop
2016-01-27T15:07:01Z FreeBird_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:07:35Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:08:16Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:08:55Z Zhivago: An ill stop blows no good.
2016-01-27T15:11:26Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:12:08Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:12:29Z Guest84270 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:13:04Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T15:13:04Z jackdaniel: hm, when my class inherits from the other one, and the original one has some accessor I don't want, I have to create a slot with the same name and my definition will replace it?
2016-01-27T15:13:49Z dlowe: jackdaniel: don't create a slot. Just make another method.
2016-01-27T15:13:57Z dlowe: specialized on your new class
2016-01-27T15:14:24Z dlowe: you'll have to figure out what to do if someone calls the accessor anyway.
2016-01-27T15:14:27Z jackdaniel: dlowe: I want to remove initarg from the make-instance lambda list
2016-01-27T15:14:34Z moore33: jackdaniel: Your definition won't replace it.
2016-01-27T15:15:08Z jackdaniel: because I want to fill the slot with some computed value from other initargs
2016-01-27T15:15:45Z moore33: jackdaniel: Just implement that behavior in an initialize-instance after method, and document that the keyword is ignored.
2016-01-27T15:15:47Z jackdaniel: (accessor was an example, the initarg is the exact thing I want to get rid of)
2016-01-27T15:15:55Z jackdaniel: ok, thanks
2016-01-27T15:16:38Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:16:42Z moore33: Or you could through an error in an initialize-instance before method if the keyword is specified, but that seems a bit extreme.
2016-01-27T15:16:48Z moore33: s/through/throw
2016-01-27T15:18:55Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:21:08Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T15:21:40Z prohobo: what's the difference between (make-array '((length my-list))) and (make-array (list (length my-list)))?
2016-01-27T15:21:48Z prohobo: the first errors out
2016-01-27T15:22:01Z prohobo: oh my
2016-01-27T15:22:04Z dlowe: '((length my-list)) evaluates to the literal list ((length my-list)
2016-01-27T15:22:09Z prohobo: i understand
2016-01-27T15:22:12Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:22:16Z prohobo: i forgot about that rule
2016-01-27T15:22:39Z dlowe: when you understand quoting, you will have grasped the lisp nature
2016-01-27T15:22:49Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:22:57Z oGMo: i think. maybe not all trackers do that .. hrm
2016-01-27T15:23:03Z oGMo: err, wrong channel sorry
2016-01-27T15:23:17Z didi: All roads lead to lisp.
2016-01-27T15:23:21Z contrapunctus: lol
2016-01-27T15:23:45Z dlowe: (I mean that quite literally, actually)
2016-01-27T15:26:02Z fu7mu4 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T15:27:12Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:29:05Z je4i: prohobo: `(,(length my-list)) works too
2016-01-27T15:29:45Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:30:05Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:30:36Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T15:30:36Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:33:25Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:33:57Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:34:22Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:34:24Z Wojciech_K_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:35:13Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:37:06Z Malopolski-Zubr quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:37:57Z hlavaty joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:42:34Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:46:28Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:46:52Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:49:25Z francogrex joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:49:53Z prohobo quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2016-01-27T15:50:54Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T15:50:58Z francogrex: hi how can I stop a running loop without exiting the lisp program altogether?
2016-01-27T15:52:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:52:37Z jackdaniel: C-c will probably invoke an interrupt
2016-01-27T15:52:45Z jackdaniel: and you'll get dropped into debugger
2016-01-27T15:52:56Z jackdaniel: picking abort restart will stop the loop
2016-01-27T15:53:27Z jackdaniel: (if you're in emacs, it'll be C-c C-c
2016-01-27T15:53:27Z jackdaniel: )
2016-01-27T15:54:31Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-27T15:54:31Z francogrex: jackdaniel: i am in emacs; i tried but it just ignores the C-c C-c and loop proceeds
2016-01-27T15:55:09Z jackdaniel: works here
2016-01-27T15:55:30Z jackdaniel: you have to be in repl buffer
2016-01-27T15:55:57Z francogrex: maybe you have slime? my lisp is in emac's inferior process
2016-01-27T15:55:59Z z0d: francogrex: sometimes Emacs is busy updating the screen, so you might need to wait a bit before it processes it
2016-01-27T15:56:00Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T15:56:36Z jackdaniel: francogrex: yes, I'm in slime. I don't know how to send interrupt to the inferior lisp
2016-01-27T15:57:05Z francogrex: ok that's the discrepancy then
2016-01-27T15:58:24Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:58:58Z psy joined #lisp
2016-01-27T15:59:10Z francogrex: but it should also work in ilisp: C-c C-c (interrupt-subjob-ilisp)
2016-01-27T15:59:29Z psy quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-27T15:59:42Z kenanb left #lisp
2016-01-27T15:59:47Z antoszka: I know it's a bit silly, but on a number of occasions just banging C-c repeteadly helped.
2016-01-27T15:59:50Z je4i: https://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Recovery.html#Recovery
2016-01-27T16:00:06Z Munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T16:00:41Z psy joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:01:36Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:02:42Z ferada_ is now known as ferada
2016-01-27T16:03:59Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:04:46Z Warlock[29A] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:05:07Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2016-01-27T16:07:35Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:11:56Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:15:49Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:16:24Z test1600 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T16:16:24Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:17:03Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:20:17Z test1600 quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T16:20:34Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:21:02Z specbot quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-27T16:21:06Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:21:07Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:21:09Z easye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T16:21:26Z ogam quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T16:21:26Z ircbrowse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:21:32Z ogam joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:21:34Z abbe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:22:00Z Blkt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T16:22:14Z test1600 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T16:22:14Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:22:46Z haasn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:23:03Z yauz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:23:15Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-27T16:23:32Z fe[nl]ix quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2016-01-27T16:23:40Z abbe joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:24:14Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.)
2016-01-27T16:24:25Z ircbrowse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:24:29Z slifeet joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:25:03Z ogam quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T16:25:05Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:25:06Z yauz joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:25:09Z ogam joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:25:20Z easye joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:26:20Z malice joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:26:27Z malice: Hello! What lib to use to interact with sqlite3?
2016-01-27T16:28:01Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T16:28:16Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:28:29Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-27T16:31:29Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:31:37Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:32:53Z haasn joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:33:14Z je4i: clsql, others see http://cliki.net/site/search?query=sqlite3
2016-01-27T16:34:00Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T16:35:23Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-27T16:37:10Z ralt: I've used cl-sqlite
2016-01-27T16:38:42Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T16:39:08Z ralt: it was good
2016-01-27T16:41:10Z _sjs_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:41:17Z _sjs_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T16:42:52Z Wasdaf joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:44:05Z m0li quit (Quit: i'm back.)
2016-01-27T16:47:09Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:47:25Z malice: ralt: DId you get :CANTOPEN error too?
2016-01-27T16:48:40Z ralt: nope.
2016-01-27T16:48:49Z ralt: check your permissions
2016-01-27T16:48:56Z malice: ralt: I set them to 777 :/
2016-01-27T16:49:03Z francogrex quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-27T16:49:24Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:49:40Z malice: ralt: out of curiosity, how did you get the db to connect to?
2016-01-27T16:49:56Z malice: I used "sqlite3 im.db", done something in base, ten .exit -ed from it.
2016-01-27T16:50:02Z malice: Now trying to load it but to no avail.
2016-01-27T16:53:15Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-27T16:53:37Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:57:36Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-27T16:58:06Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T16:58:35Z alexherbo2 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2016-01-27T17:00:14Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T17:00:31Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:01:02Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:01:18Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:03:21Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:03:35Z shka: hi all
2016-01-27T17:03:40Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:03:44Z shka: i have macrolet question
2016-01-27T17:03:50Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-27T17:03:50Z minion: beach, memo from jackdaniel: I've made a pull request on McCLIM's github with the initial support for ECL (w/o mp yet, because I want to provide general  bordeaux-threads backend, I'm half way there)
2016-01-27T17:04:07Z shka: beach: how nice you are here!
2016-01-27T17:04:17Z beach: jackdaniel: I saw it.  I'll try to deal with it tomorrow morning (UTC+1).
2016-01-27T17:04:37Z beach: shka: Oh, thank you.  That's very nice of you to say so.
2016-01-27T17:05:00Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:05:03Z beach: It improved my rotten mood somewhat. :)
2016-01-27T17:05:31Z moore33: beach: Hey beach. Sorry you're in a rotten mood.
2016-01-27T17:05:44Z beach: You'll soon understand why. :)
2016-01-27T17:05:45Z shka: beach: oh, bad day?
2016-01-27T17:05:51Z shka: right
2016-01-27T17:05:52Z shka: anyway
2016-01-27T17:05:52Z moore33: Uh oh.
2016-01-27T17:06:01Z shka: i wanted to ask macrolet question
2016-01-27T17:06:17Z moore33 looks for his car keys :)
2016-01-27T17:06:18Z shka: basicly, i have function that generates code for macrolet
2016-01-27T17:06:23Z shka: *macro
2016-01-27T17:06:25Z shka: http://paste.lisp.org/display/306019
2016-01-27T17:06:34Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T17:06:49Z shka: but i must be doing something stupid since this macrolet form compiles with error
2016-01-27T17:07:01Z shka: illegal reference to lexical variable
2016-01-27T17:07:08Z beach: So, from conducting some experiments, like trying to use XLIB:SET-MODIFIER-MAP and even the xmodmap utility, it appears that the X server refuses to make (say) the CapsLock key a modifier if it is already a modifier of a different type, which is entirely reasonable.
2016-01-27T17:07:55Z shka: beach: why is that important?
2016-01-27T17:08:04Z shka: i indeed mapped caps lock as escape
2016-01-27T17:08:08Z beach: BUT, after using gnome-tweak-tool to make the CapsLock key an additional Control key, calling XLIB:MODIFIER-MAPPING reports the CapsLock keycode as both a lock modifier and a control modifier.
2016-01-27T17:08:12Z shka: *control
2016-01-27T17:08:31Z shka: beach: i can help you with that
2016-01-27T17:08:33Z shka: give me a second
2016-01-27T17:08:45Z beach: A lot of code, including CLX assumes that the keycodes are mutually exclusive.
2016-01-27T17:09:47Z shka: beach: that is reasonable assumption
2016-01-27T17:09:52Z dyelar joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:10:01Z beach: Except that it is false.
2016-01-27T17:10:13Z shka: i believe that in well configured system should be correct
2016-01-27T17:10:28Z shka: what is us case for control and caps lock under the same key?
2016-01-27T17:11:13Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:11:13Z beach: Start Common Lisp.  Do (require :clx), then do (xlib:modifier-mapping (xlib:open-default-display))
2016-01-27T17:11:21Z shka: ok
2016-01-27T17:11:55Z splittist: This is God's way of saying give your pinkie a rest.
2016-01-27T17:12:00Z moore33: beach: Can you verify that with an external program?
2016-01-27T17:12:00Z beach: The CapsLock key is a member of two return values.
2016-01-27T17:12:05Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T17:12:20Z beach: splittist: I am still an atheist.
2016-01-27T17:12:31Z beach: moore33: How would I do that?
2016-01-27T17:12:50Z shka: beach: not here
2016-01-27T17:12:55Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:13:04Z moore33: beach: Dunno; I thought there would be a command line utility to dump that state.
2016-01-27T17:13:16Z beach: moore33: Since I can't put it back, I would either have to restart the X server, or attempt the tweak tool again.
2016-01-27T17:13:27Z shka: beach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/306019#1
2016-01-27T17:13:27Z beach: Oh, maybe xmodmap can do that.
2016-01-27T17:13:44Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:13:44Z oleo_ quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T17:13:44Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:13:48Z shka: beach: don't use xmodmap for swapping caps lock with control
2016-01-27T17:14:04Z beach: shka: You obviously did not use gnome-tweak-tool to turn your CapsLock into an additional Control.
2016-01-27T17:14:17Z shka: i didn't
2016-01-27T17:14:22Z beach: Exactly.
2016-01-27T17:14:34Z beach: And the problem appears because of doing that.
2016-01-27T17:14:45Z moore33: shka: By the way, your macrolet is broken because you can't reference values in the lexical environment outside of the macrolet.
2016-01-27T17:14:47Z shka: but that does not say that gnome tweak tool is doing that correctly
2016-01-27T17:14:59Z shka: moore33: i googled that out
2016-01-27T17:15:10Z shka: but i'm struggling to understand why
2016-01-27T17:15:23Z shka: sorry, i'm any idiot
2016-01-27T17:15:24Z beach: I am thinking the gnome tweak tool is able to do something it should not be able to do.
2016-01-27T17:15:25Z shka: ;-]
2016-01-27T17:15:32Z moore33: shka: Because there are no values at the time the macro is expanded.
2016-01-27T17:15:39Z antoszka: how about just setxkbmap -layout <your-layout> -option ctrl:nocaps
2016-01-27T17:15:52Z shka: and that's how you are doing it
2016-01-27T17:15:53Z antoszka: no need to xmodmap nor gnome-tweak
2016-01-27T17:15:57Z beach: antoszka: What would that do?
2016-01-27T17:16:10Z antoszka: beach: set your layout and turn capslock into an additional control
2016-01-27T17:16:16Z beach: antoszka: I know how to change the modifier mapping.  That is not the problem here.
2016-01-27T17:16:33Z shka: xmodmap is not the right tool for setting additional control
2016-01-27T17:16:36Z shka: i mean: period
2016-01-27T17:16:41Z beach: antoszka: The problem here is how to write a CLX backend for McCLIM when some servers return the wrong thing.
2016-01-27T17:16:44Z shka: moore33: ok
2016-01-27T17:16:44Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:16:59Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T17:17:05Z antoszka: beach: as in: various X server implementations?
2016-01-27T17:17:15Z pcchange90 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:17:19Z beach: shka: I AM NOT USING XMODMAP TO SET THE MODIFIER MAPPING.  I DID THAT JUST AS A TEST.
2016-01-27T17:17:32Z shka: gnome tweak tool is doing it
2016-01-27T17:17:59Z shka: and in a broken way
2016-01-27T17:18:14Z beach: shka: So I should tell every McCLIM user that they should not use the recommended (by Ubuntu forums) to make CapsLock an additional control?
2016-01-27T17:18:25Z shka: i'm just saying that control and caps lock under the same key is misconfiguration
2016-01-27T17:18:28Z beach: Or else, they can't use any CLIM software.
2016-01-27T17:18:41Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-27T17:18:45Z moore33: shka: Sorry, I was slightly confused.
2016-01-27T17:19:08Z antoszka: beach: This might be an unfortunate fact, but I'd need to do some testing myself. Do we have a test case for reproducing?
2016-01-27T17:19:10Z shka: i would do it differently
2016-01-27T17:19:28Z shka: what about sending patch to gnome tweak upstream?
2016-01-27T17:19:38Z shka: since as i said
2016-01-27T17:19:40Z antoszka: beach: The forums might be official, but the forums posts are not, and they are apparently wrong.
2016-01-27T17:19:42Z shka: they are doing it wrong
2016-01-27T17:20:07Z shka: in fact, this gnome tweak feature is simply broken
2016-01-27T17:20:14Z beach: antoszka: Yes, simple.  Use the gnome tweak tool to turn CapsLock into an additional control.  Then start Common Lisp.  Do (require :clx) and then (xlib:modifier-mapping (xlib:open-default-display)
2016-01-27T17:20:16Z antoszka: The 'ctrl:nocaps' option passed to the driver is the proper way of doing it.
2016-01-27T17:20:38Z moore33: shka: I think it's more likely that you don't have any bindings in place for the vector-symbol variable when your macrolet is later expanded. And it would be hard to, since you've created it with a gensym...
2016-01-27T17:21:11Z beach: shka: Gnome tweak tool can not accomplish this by calling xmodmap, because I tried doing that, and got a protocol error.
2016-01-27T17:21:27Z shka: moore33: i need to check that on other lisp implementation
2016-01-27T17:21:28Z moore33: beach: Does what you've done break other X programs, like emacs?
2016-01-27T17:21:39Z ralt: this is what I have in my ~/.stumpwmrc https://gist.github.com/ralt/0a0f00ae45081597f28a
2016-01-27T17:21:40Z beach: moore33: No.
2016-01-27T17:22:13Z beach: moore33: Everything else works.  Apparently, despite the fact that the CapsLock keycode is a member of the lock set does not make the server turn on the lock bit in the modifier state.
2016-01-27T17:22:16Z Prion_: ralt: Am I the only one which change like the most of the keybinding to use the windows key?
2016-01-27T17:22:20Z Prion_: who**
2016-01-27T17:22:29Z moore33: shka: Actually, now I'm not sure :)
2016-01-27T17:22:32Z ralt: probably, I use windows key for other stuff
2016-01-27T17:22:43Z pcchange90 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T17:23:02Z Prion_: I really don't know in what circonstance the windows key can be used...
2016-01-27T17:23:04Z beach: antoszka: Are you referring to any particular forum posts?
2016-01-27T17:23:25Z ralt: Prion_ https://gist.github.com/ralt/005d10e65c5e932990dd
2016-01-27T17:23:32Z p_l: I use Super (known as 'windows') for WM controls and of course inside windows
2016-01-27T17:23:35Z Prion_: ralt: I'm on it
2016-01-27T17:23:47Z antoszka: beach: No, just thinking generally – if that's the advice, it's just wrong. There's another facility for doing that.
2016-01-27T17:24:04Z beach: antoszka: Oh, I see what you mean.
2016-01-27T17:24:18Z antoszka: beach: BTW, see if the problem appears with the setxkmap command I mentioned.
2016-01-27T17:24:35Z shka: beach: that's new, KDE has option for swapping control and caps lock, and it does not use xmodmap
2016-01-27T17:24:41Z ralt: Prion_ it's another gist :)
2016-01-27T17:24:48Z beach: shka: I am not swapping them.
2016-01-27T17:24:56Z shka: i understand that
2016-01-27T17:25:04Z shka: *sigh*
2016-01-27T17:25:06Z antoszka: beach: Unofortunately I don't have the tweaktool on my system to try and reproduce.
2016-01-27T17:25:13Z Prion_: ralt: Yeah, the only one which I've kept is the C-t 1/2/3/4/5
2016-01-27T17:25:16Z shka: i will just send patch to gnome-tweak-tool, ok?
2016-01-27T17:25:20Z antoszka: beach: So can I only really moan that it's „not the right way” :)
2016-01-27T17:25:46Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T17:25:50Z beach: shka: It would probably be useful to understand how they can possibly do it, when using the protocol does not allow it.
2016-01-27T17:26:00Z antoszka: sorry, bbl, gotta equip child for swimming pool
2016-01-27T17:26:10Z shka: beach: i can check that for monday
2016-01-27T17:26:11Z Prion_: ralt: But I use S-1/2/3/4/5 to change the current group. And I've bind most of what I need like urxvt, emacs or firefox to direct keybinding
2016-01-27T17:26:16Z shka: i'm kinda busy right now
2016-01-27T17:26:34Z pcchange90 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:26:57Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T17:27:59Z p_l: beach: probably weird IME or GTK tricks that depend on application support
2016-01-27T17:28:02Z beach: antoszka: Sure.  When you get back, I haven't yet figured out how to change the modifier mapping with setxkmap.
2016-01-27T17:28:29Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:28:41Z beach: p_l: I see.
2016-01-27T17:29:05Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T17:29:46Z beach: Well, it appears that it should not be possible to do this, and that I can therefore assume that this is a defect somewhere.
2016-01-27T17:29:53Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:29:54Z shka: setxkbmap -option ctrl:swapcaps
2016-01-27T17:30:04Z moore33: shka: I think you want ,',vector-symbol and ,',index-symbol in your symbol-macrolet and macrolet forms.
2016-01-27T17:30:18Z beach: shka: Does that swap control and capslock?
2016-01-27T17:30:20Z shka: moore33: i'm checking!
2016-01-27T17:30:28Z shka: beach: iirc yes
2016-01-27T17:30:40Z beach: shka: That is not what I want.  I want to make CapsLock AN ADDITIONAL CONTROL KEY.
2016-01-27T17:30:41Z zadock joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:31:02Z shka: setxkbmap -option ctrl:nocaps
2016-01-27T17:31:02Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:31:07Z shka: beach: that should do
2016-01-27T17:31:08Z pcchange90 quit (Quit: 离开)
2016-01-27T17:31:35Z hlavaty left #lisp
2016-01-27T17:31:37Z ralt: Prion_ ah, I don't really use groups
2016-01-27T17:32:00Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:32:14Z ralt: beach that option is in the first gist I shared
2016-01-27T17:32:15Z Prion_: ralt: Yeah, I guess it's useful when you have a large monitor with a pre configured set up of software open
2016-01-27T17:32:36Z Prion_: ralt: Yeah, and your code is cool. I'm the noob one which make all the assignement by hand :)
2016-01-27T17:32:46Z beach: shka: It works.
2016-01-27T17:32:47Z ralt: Prion_ I have that but all my apps are full screen, I don't see the appeal of groups
2016-01-27T17:32:59Z beach: shka: I.e., it removes CapsLock from the lock list.
2016-01-27T17:33:06Z shka: yup
2016-01-27T17:33:10Z Prion_: ralt: When you get large monitor I guess.
2016-01-27T17:33:16Z jasom: beach: xmodmap -e 'clear lock' -e 'add control = Caps_Lock'
2016-01-27T17:33:19Z shka: beach: and regarding how it is possible
2016-01-27T17:33:25Z shka: they didn't clear lock
2016-01-27T17:33:25Z voidlily quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T17:33:25Z ralt: I have a large (24") monitor
2016-01-27T17:33:27Z voidlily_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:33:36Z ralt: unless 24" is not large enough?
2016-01-27T17:33:43Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:33:56Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T17:34:12Z Prion_: I'm a noob, not a pro :). But I don't use group that much neither. I stay on the principal one most of the time, emacs and firefox split
2016-01-27T17:34:27Z beach: jasom: Again, I am not asking how to do this.  I know how to do it.  I am asking whether I need to take into account the fact that the server returns CapsLock in two modifier sets when I write X11 software, and in particular in CLX and the CLX backend for McCLIM.
2016-01-27T17:35:27Z jasom: oh
2016-01-27T17:36:14Z p_l: beach: might be necessary to implement workaround for that :-|
2016-01-27T17:36:35Z shka: you will hate me
2016-01-27T17:36:35Z pcchange90 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:36:39Z jasom: beach: I think that if it's in both modifier sets then the user's setup is wrong; that doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't work around it though
2016-01-27T17:36:44Z shka: but i think that this issue shuld be ignored for now
2016-01-27T17:37:00Z beach: So far, it appears that XLIB:SET-MODIFIER-MAP, xmodmap, and setxkbmap all refuse to keep CapsLock as a lock key when it is assigned to be a control key.  The question, then, is "how does the Gnome tweak tool do it?".
2016-01-27T17:37:37Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:37:53Z Guest32964 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:38:07Z oleo_: well, i only had to add the german layout atop the us-american keyboard layout + change some of the modifier-state numbers to get the dvorak scheme in mcclim.....
2016-01-27T17:38:22Z trinitr0n: http://imgur.com/gallery/CBoVc
2016-01-27T17:38:27Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T17:38:50Z oleo_: the modifier states were somewhat wrong.....
2016-01-27T17:39:03Z beach: jasom: Yes, I agree.
2016-01-27T17:39:13Z beach: jasom: But I would rather not have to work around it.
2016-01-27T17:39:22Z oleo_: apart from that i didn't have any problems with caps-lock etc.....
2016-01-27T17:39:46Z beach: trinitr0n: Posting links without saying what one might expect when clicking on them is troll behavior.
2016-01-27T17:40:25Z beach: trinitr0n: I for one would never click on it without a comment from the poster.  It might be innocent, but it would most likely be a waste of time.
2016-01-27T17:41:01Z beach: oleo_: It appears that the problem is in the Gnome tweak tool, so if you did not use that, then I am not surprised you had no problems.
2016-01-27T17:41:09Z trinitr0n: jfc sue me I'm jetlagged to all shit and was up until 3 AM fixing the lisp machines in the gallery I linked
2016-01-27T17:41:25Z oleo_: beach: ah ok then, i was always either in windowmaker or kde
2016-01-27T17:42:01Z oleo_: but without the us layout you won't get anything actually.....
2016-01-27T17:46:41Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T17:46:58Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:47:57Z pcchange90 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T17:48:44Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T17:48:50Z pcchange90 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:48:53Z oleo_: cause i only had the german layout at the start to begin with and couldn't get other keys working too.....
2016-01-27T17:49:03Z oleo_: and then discovered the us layout stuff....
2016-01-27T17:49:27Z oleo_: anyway dvorak is nice
2016-01-27T17:49:58Z oleo_: you can also enable it for sdl.....
2016-01-27T17:50:21Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T17:50:22Z oleo_: via /etc/vga/ stuff
2016-01-27T17:50:25Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:50:33Z moore33: trinitr0n: That's not Stephen Jones in one of the photos, is it?
2016-01-27T17:50:45Z trinitr0n: nope
2016-01-27T17:50:53Z trinitr0n: but i do know smj lol
2016-01-27T17:50:54Z moore33: Oh. Nevermind.
2016-01-27T17:50:58Z moore33: heh
2016-01-27T17:51:00Z beach: oleo_: Again, the problem is not my personal configuration.  The problem is that I need to know whether to take this server quirk into account when I write software that uses CLX.
2016-01-27T17:51:08Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:51:22Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-27T17:51:26Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T17:51:27Z moore33: trinitr0n: I haven't seen him in person for 13 years or so, so maybe I forget what he looks like.
2016-01-27T17:51:29Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:51:58Z beach: moore33: Now do you see why I am in a rotten mood?
2016-01-27T17:52:04Z trinitr0n: moore33: are you the guy who wrote the asteroid game
2016-01-27T17:52:07Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:52:20Z trinitr0n: moore33: long shot but
2016-01-27T17:52:21Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T17:52:36Z oleo_: beach: i've never seen locking controls keys ever .....
2016-01-27T17:52:59Z moore33: trinitr0n: nope.
2016-01-27T17:53:00Z beach: oleo_: This is a controlling lock key, though.
2016-01-27T17:53:09Z oleo_: beach: have you tried setting it via X config file ?
2016-01-27T17:53:11Z trinitr0n: he mentioned sine friend he is out of touch with who wrote a rather neat lisp rendition of asteroids on a 3640
2016-01-27T17:53:21Z beach: oleo_: Again, the problem is not my personal configuration.  The problem is that I need to know whether to take this server quirk into account when I write software that uses CLX.
2016-01-27T17:53:26Z trinitr0n: *sine -> some
2016-01-27T17:53:39Z beach: oleo_: I know how to configure my keyboard the way I want it.
2016-01-27T17:53:40Z moore33: beach: It's unpleasant, but seems like it could easily go in the "I don't care" pile :)
2016-01-27T17:53:56Z oleo_: /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/90-keyboard-layout.conf
2016-01-27T17:53:58Z beach: It could.
2016-01-27T17:54:10Z oleo_: ok ok
2016-01-27T17:54:53Z beach: oleo_: I don't have a file /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d
2016-01-27T17:55:58Z p_l: beach: hmm, sounds like a job for the x11 protocol tracer, but I am not sure it won't o crazy from new extensions
2016-01-27T17:56:16Z beach: p_l: Interesting idea.
2016-01-27T17:56:17Z oleo_: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MovingTheCtrlKey
2016-01-27T17:56:51Z oleo_: swap Ctrl and CapsLock hmmm
2016-01-27T17:57:08Z oleo_: but that's swapping.....
2016-01-27T17:57:11Z beach: oleo_: Again, the problem is not my personal configuration.  I know how to configure my keyboard the way I want it.  The problem is that I need to know whether to take this server quirk into account when I write software that uses CLX.
2016-01-27T17:57:12Z p_l: beach: I'll have to dig it up, it's quite old program
2016-01-27T17:57:13Z oleo_: not superimposing
2016-01-27T17:57:24Z beach: p_l: Thanks.
2016-01-27T17:57:30Z beach: Dinner.  I'll be back later.
2016-01-27T17:57:45Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-27T17:58:05Z p_l: beach: another possible option would be to generate new tracer from XCB xml defs and make it use pcap dumps
2016-01-27T18:00:26Z malice: Okay. If anyone comes and says that they can't connect to sqlite from lisp
2016-01-27T18:00:31Z malice: Tell them to run sqlite on their database first...
2016-01-27T18:01:18Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:07:28Z Whymind quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T18:07:40Z _sjs_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:07:40Z pcchange90 left #lisp
2016-01-27T18:08:50Z _sjs_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T18:08:55Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T18:08:57Z Whymind joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:09:04Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:09:21Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:09:39Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:09:40Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-27T18:10:50Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:13:04Z didi: Cool SLIME command of the day: browse-system
2016-01-27T18:15:40Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:16:54Z ggole quit
2016-01-27T18:22:53Z phoe_krk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T18:24:04Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:24:51Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T18:30:24Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T18:30:25Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:34:07Z synchromesh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T18:34:23Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:35:14Z anderoonies joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:35:29Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T18:35:49Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:36:35Z anderoonies left #lisp
2016-01-27T18:37:23Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T18:39:58Z porky11 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T18:40:19Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T18:41:00Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:43:42Z beach: p_l: I'll try to understand what that means at some point.  Step one is to find out in which file the modifier mapping is stored.  I'll do that tomorrow morning (UTC+1).
2016-01-27T18:43:44Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-27T18:43:48Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-27T18:44:08Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T18:44:26Z lieven quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T18:44:26Z lieven joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:45:59Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T18:47:12Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:52:45Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:56:02Z wheelsucker quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T18:56:03Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:56:09Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-27T18:57:53Z wheelsucker quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T19:03:50Z |3b|````` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T19:04:35Z |3b|````` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:05:28Z ralt: malice: "running sqlite on the db" doesn't make sense
2016-01-27T19:05:52Z ralt: cl-sqlite can handle creating a new db file
2016-01-27T19:06:52Z |3b|````` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T19:07:47Z |3b| joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:13:39Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:16:31Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:18:16Z algae quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T19:18:18Z w3pm joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:19:47Z didi` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:20:24Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:23:09Z didi quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T19:23:34Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:26:31Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:26:34Z phoe_krk: ff
2016-01-27T19:27:03Z phoe_krk: I'm just trying to comprehend irssi
2016-01-27T19:27:15Z phoe_krk: apt upgrade broke my X's input.
2016-01-27T19:29:34Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:32:26Z Wasdaf quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-27T19:33:42Z antoszka: Seems like an X-input problem day.
2016-01-27T19:34:07Z antoszka: phoe_krk: What's the problem with your irssi?
2016-01-27T19:34:25Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:34:31Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-27T19:34:46Z phoe_krk: antoszka: is there more X-input problems around?
2016-01-27T19:35:07Z phoe_krk: antoszka: I normally use thunderbird, it's completely new for me to use irssi
2016-01-27T19:35:37Z antoszka: phoe_krk: Yeah, we've been discussing some weird behaviour related to remapping ctrl to caps via gnome-tweak-tool on Ubuntu in conjunction with CLX…
2016-01-27T19:36:50Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T19:37:54Z Kruppe joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:38:53Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:40:18Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:46:26Z jwynn6 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:47:19Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:52:12Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-27T19:52:15Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T19:53:10Z hydan quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-27T19:53:17Z jwynn6 quit (Quit: ~ Trillian - www.trillian.im ~)
2016-01-27T19:53:26Z jwynn6 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:55:26Z aeth joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:57:26Z Blkt joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:57:28Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:58:51Z anderoonies joined #lisp
2016-01-27T19:59:05Z anderoonies quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T19:59:52Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T19:59:56Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T20:00:01Z scymtym quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T20:00:47Z Sucks quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T20:02:26Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-27T20:03:41Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:04:18Z rpg joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:05:41Z phoe_krk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:08:44Z pjb: shka: you can generate code with functions, you don't need macros for that.
2016-01-27T20:09:03Z shka: pjb: yes, i know that
2016-01-27T20:09:17Z shka: but in the end
2016-01-27T20:09:37Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-27T20:09:37Z phoe_krk_ is now known as phoe_krk
2016-01-27T20:10:00Z shka: i will need macro simply because i need to turn my list into actually runnable code
2016-01-27T20:10:05Z shka: or perhaps no
2016-01-27T20:10:23Z shka: i don't know
2016-01-27T20:10:35Z Guest32964 quit (Quit: Guest32964)
2016-01-27T20:11:41Z Demosthenex joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:11:41Z Karl_Dscc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T20:12:12Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T20:12:34Z Demosthenex quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T20:13:08Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:14:38Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T20:15:04Z rpg: shka: No, that won't be necessary.
2016-01-27T20:15:10Z rpg: You can use COMPILE
2016-01-27T20:15:25Z shka: hmmm
2016-01-27T20:15:55Z shka: can i compile lambda form to get function?
2016-01-27T20:19:15Z prxq: yes
2016-01-27T20:19:16Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:19:35Z shka: thx
2016-01-27T20:20:17Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T20:22:23Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:23:29Z hiroakip quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-27T20:23:45Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T20:23:51Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T20:25:56Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:26:02Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-27T20:27:00Z Karl_Dscc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T20:28:08Z quasus joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:28:59Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:29:03Z Karl_Dscc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T20:29:23Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T20:29:54Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:31:15Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T20:32:26Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg)
2016-01-27T20:32:49Z nisstyre quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-27T20:33:30Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:35:10Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T20:39:26Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T20:39:46Z jwynn6 quit (Quit: ~ Trillian - www.trillian.im ~)
2016-01-27T20:40:22Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:41:21Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:44:07Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:44:39Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:45:46Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-27T20:46:32Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:47:04Z jwynn6 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:49:20Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-27T20:49:58Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:51:55Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:53:52Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T20:54:41Z Th30n: Is there a slime function for unloading the files? I'd like to recompile from the start.
2016-01-27T20:56:45Z PuercoPop: Th30n: press , restart-slime or (asdf:load-system :system-name :force t)
2016-01-27T20:58:14Z Th30n: PuercoPop: Thanks, I knew about restart, looked for something else, just like asdf ^^
2016-01-27T20:58:29Z cgore joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:59:00Z cgore quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T20:59:05Z didi`` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:59:09Z didi` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T20:59:11Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-27T20:59:36Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:00:07Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:00:22Z freehck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T21:04:10Z madnificent joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:05:13Z madnificent: My search-fu is failing me in finding how to read environment variables in lisp.  I'd like to support at least sbcl and abcl in my approach.  Any pointers?
2016-01-27T21:05:42Z fe[nl]ix: madnificent: see asdf
2016-01-27T21:06:00Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-27T21:06:31Z Arathnim: madnificent: http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/os.html
2016-01-27T21:07:09Z mordocai: madnificent: Each implementation sb-posix:getenv, ccl:getenv, ext:getenv [clisp]
2016-01-27T21:07:18Z fe[nl]ix: Arathnim: cl-cookbook is obsolete
2016-01-27T21:07:19Z mordocai: madnificent: if asdf or that os thing have cross implementation versions i'd use those
2016-01-27T21:07:22Z madnificent: fe[nl]ix: ah right, good idea!
2016-01-27T21:07:38Z madnificent: Arathnim, mordocai: thanks :)
2016-01-27T21:08:03Z fe[nl]ix: madnificent: if you have a recent asdf, (uiop:getenv "HOME")
2016-01-27T21:08:48Z madnificent: fe[nl]ix: yup.  I didn't guess on searching in asdf and my internet searches kept giving me non-lisp related things.
2016-01-27T21:09:01Z mordocai: I'm actually kind of sad that Common Lisp Recipes had the implementation specific versions but doesn't mention uiop
2016-01-27T21:10:19Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T21:10:53Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T21:12:22Z learning joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:14:03Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:16:09Z william3: Hey people. What's a good introductory book to lisp?
2016-01-27T21:16:26Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:17:26Z jackdaniel: minion: tell william3 about pcl
2016-01-27T21:17:26Z minion: william3: please see pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2016-01-27T21:17:58Z learning: does anyone know off the top of their head the last time the ANSI standard for CL was updated? I was able to find out that it was released in 1994 but I havent been able to find any info if it's been updated since then.
2016-01-27T21:18:05Z william3: Thanks :)
2016-01-27T21:18:34Z jackdaniel: 1994 is the time it was last updated
2016-01-27T21:18:47Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-27T21:18:48Z learning: ok, that's actually really awesome.
2016-01-27T21:18:52Z learning: thanks
2016-01-27T21:20:10Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-27T21:20:21Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T21:22:15Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:23:53Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-27T21:24:30Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:29:12Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T21:33:10Z warweasle quit (Quit: Gotta catch 'em all!)
2016-01-27T21:34:26Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:35:27Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:36:56Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T21:38:01Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T21:38:45Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:42:04Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T21:47:48Z Ven joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:49:08Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-27T21:50:12Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T21:50:57Z kobain joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:52:26Z nikki93_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T21:53:36Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:54:01Z sweater is now known as Guest3811
2016-01-27T21:56:00Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T21:57:09Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-27T21:58:01Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T21:59:41Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-27T22:01:20Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-27T22:04:24Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:05:48Z lvh_ is now known as lvh
2016-01-27T22:08:09Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T22:09:51Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:12:59Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T22:13:26Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-27T22:14:36Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-27T22:15:12Z HardWall quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T22:15:35Z ralt: hm.
2016-01-27T22:15:41Z ralt: I have a weird issue with swank
2016-01-27T22:16:05Z ralt: I create a server with (swank:create-server :style nil) (because I don't want it to thread)
2016-01-27T22:16:15Z ralt: ... I have to try something.
2016-01-27T22:17:47Z ralt: ok, I confirm it's weird.
2016-01-27T22:18:06Z ralt: I run this binary calling swank:create-server in a VM
2016-01-27T22:18:15Z ralt: then I have an ssh tunnel between my host and this VM
2016-01-27T22:18:53Z ralt: and when I run slime-connect, I get this error: "Can't locate module: SWANK-IO-PACKAGE::SWANK-TRACE-DIALOG"
2016-01-27T22:19:02Z ralt: and my slime doesn't want to open
2016-01-27T22:19:13Z ralt: yet, the slime REPL opens itself in the VM
2016-01-27T22:19:28Z ralt: when I run the binary on my host, slime-connect works fine
2016-01-27T22:19:58Z slifeet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T22:21:03Z ralt: any idea as to what's wrong?
2016-01-27T22:21:56Z bogwonch quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T22:22:57Z learning: is it possible to use trace on flet or labels in sbcl? google says no
2016-01-27T22:23:10Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-27T22:27:24Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:27:25Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:28:39Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:28:49Z mishoo__ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-27T22:29:05Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:29:16Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T22:29:58Z mishoo_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-27T22:31:14Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-27T22:33:26Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:34:44Z shka: learning: nope
2016-01-27T22:35:49Z lispnewbie joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:35:50Z ccaffeini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T22:36:29Z malice` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:36:30Z lispnewbie: how do people deploy projects with quicklisp dependencies to production?
2016-01-27T22:36:45Z lispnewbie: just have quicklisp installed and then quickload in the code?
2016-01-27T22:38:07Z mordocai quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.2+deb1 - http://znc.in)
2016-01-27T22:38:24Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:39:42Z ccaffeini joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:41:37Z malice` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-27T22:42:59Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:44:39Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:50:25Z didi``` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:50:45Z shka: lispnewbie: set dependency in asd
2016-01-27T22:51:39Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-27T22:53:15Z malice` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T22:53:56Z didi`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T22:54:25Z luis: Anyone have a chance to go through the new Common Lisp Recipes book?
2016-01-27T22:54:36Z malice` left #lisp
2016-01-27T22:54:49Z luis: *had
2016-01-27T22:54:51Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-27T22:55:15Z luis: I'm having trouble ignoring the absolutely awful typesetting Apress did!
2016-01-27T22:55:29Z malice: Hello! Is there a way to get text from error when using handler-bind?
2016-01-27T22:55:39Z mordocai: I'm reading the ebook in pdf form and it seems fine so far. Only ~125 pages in
2016-01-27T22:55:44Z luis: Many of the pages are actually crooked!
2016-01-27T22:55:49Z malice: I want to capture some error and call some function to invoke a restart, but the function also has to print what error it encountered.
2016-01-27T22:56:02Z mordocai: luis: In the print book or one of the ebook formats?
2016-01-27T22:57:17Z luis: the print book.
2016-01-27T22:57:49Z luis: I'll share my outrage with the world tomorrow. :)
2016-01-27T22:58:53Z dmiles_afk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T22:59:51Z malice: So can I get the text? :(
2016-01-27T23:01:10Z Xach__ joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:01:14Z mordocai: malice: per http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html looks like error objects have a text slot
2016-01-27T23:01:30Z quazimod1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T23:01:30Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-27T23:01:42Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-27T23:02:26Z pillton: Error objects do not have a text slot.
2016-01-27T23:02:37Z pillton: The condition malformed-log-entry-error does.
2016-01-27T23:02:57Z mordocai: Ah okay
2016-01-27T23:03:01Z mordocai: In that case idk
2016-01-27T23:03:16Z pillton: idk?
2016-01-27T23:03:32Z mordocai: idk = I don't know
2016-01-27T23:03:45Z pillton: idk = I did know.
2016-01-27T23:04:09Z malice: Actually, I know idk as mordocai's idk.
2016-01-27T23:04:48Z malice: pillton, do You know then how to do this?
2016-01-27T23:05:43Z pillton: That chapter in Practical Common Lisp does a good job explaining the different mechanisms of transferring control.
2016-01-27T23:06:34Z pillton: clhs 9.1
2016-01-27T23:06:34Z specbot: Condition System Concepts: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/09_a.htm
2016-01-27T23:06:41Z pillton: Is another good resource.
2016-01-27T23:06:47Z malice: Yeah, but I'm trying to do this in practice and I have hard time getting all the knowledge together. Could you guys help a bit? I'll explain what I'm doing, I feel like my approach is bad.
2016-01-27T23:07:28Z malice: I want to catch any condition that qtools might signal, and call the restart at 0, which ignores it or something like that.
2016-01-27T23:08:11Z pillton: Look at the function log-analyzer in that chapter.
2016-01-27T23:08:16Z pillton: Tells you how to do it.
2016-01-27T23:08:32Z malice: okay, thanks
2016-01-27T23:11:02Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:12:49Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-27T23:13:27Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:13:29Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:15:12Z malice left #lisp
2016-01-27T23:17:35Z Yanez quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T23:17:42Z pillton: I very rarely use conditions. I have 119394 lines of lisp code and the total number of times I've used handler-{case,bind} or restart-{case,bind} is 40.
2016-01-27T23:19:57Z lispnewbie: y is that?
2016-01-27T23:21:53Z pillton: I guess most of my exceptional situations are invariant violations.
2016-01-27T23:24:26Z madnificent quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-27T23:25:37Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:25:37Z k4rtik quit (Changing host)
2016-01-27T23:25:37Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:30:15Z didi```` joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:30:47Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-27T23:31:28Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:34:24Z didi``` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-27T23:35:48Z yenda joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:36:20Z yenda quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T23:37:27Z fourier joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:38:21Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T23:39:42Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:40:11Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:40:54Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-27T23:45:35Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-27T23:46:30Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T23:57:50Z jasom: pillton: do you write much network code?
2016-01-27T23:58:32Z pillton: Nope. I don't use exceptions for I/O as exceptional situations are expected.
2016-01-27T23:58:56Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-27T23:59:58Z jasom: pillton: do you write all your network code yourself?  I use libraries, and *they* signal exceptions since they don't necessarily know how to deal with an exception.
2016-01-28T00:01:25Z jasom: it's not whether they are expected or not; in fact it's very hard to do something useful with handler-* for something unexpected.  It's whether or not the code that detects the exceptional situation knows what to do or not.
2016-01-28T00:01:32Z cxpp joined #lisp
2016-01-28T00:01:44Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T00:01:56Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T00:02:20Z didi````: I am yet to use restarts.
2016-01-28T00:02:57Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-28T00:04:23Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T00:06:11Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T00:07:20Z pillton: jasom: Sorry. I was referring to the normal operations of reading and writing.
2016-01-28T00:07:56Z pillton: jasom: You are right though. Many things can happen with sockets.
2016-01-28T00:09:08Z didi````: Speaking of sockets... Does SBCL officially supports local namespace for sockets? I've used it but it wasn't documented last time I checked.
2016-01-28T00:09:11Z pillton: jasom: I should fix this for example: https://github.com/markcox80/basic-binary-ipc/blob/master/src/posix-sockets.lisp#L136
2016-01-28T00:09:28Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T00:09:57Z jasom: pillton: I keep forgetting you are Mark Cox
2016-01-28T00:10:38Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T00:11:08Z learning quit
2016-01-28T00:11:08Z jasom: pillton: did I tell you I ported woo to basic-binary-ipc a while back (just for fun)?
2016-01-28T00:11:21Z pillton: jasom: Yeah.
2016-01-28T00:11:55Z pillton: jasom: I was excited. I hated writing that library.
2016-01-28T00:14:06Z jasom: pillton: I don't blame you; when I saw it show up in my rss feed I couldn't believe someone actually did this
2016-01-28T00:14:23Z jasom: must have been many hours of unrewarding slog
2016-01-28T00:16:18Z jasom: didi````: most people use usocket which abstracts away socket implementations
2016-01-28T00:16:38Z didi````: jasom: Interesting. I will take a look, thanks.
2016-01-28T00:16:46Z pillton: didi````: basic-binary-ipc supports local domain sockets.
2016-01-28T00:17:07Z didi````: pillton: Thank you. I will look into it.
2016-01-28T00:17:17Z jasom: didi````: also basic-binary-ipc is awesome
2016-01-28T00:17:17Z didi````: pillton: https://github.com/markcox80/basic-binary-ipc ?
2016-01-28T00:17:29Z pillton: Yeah. It is in quicklisp too I think.
2016-01-28T00:17:30Z didi````: jasom: :-)
2016-01-28T00:18:02Z jasom: but again most people use usocket, just because it's been around forever; it's missing important things like socketpair though :(
2016-01-28T00:18:23Z pillton: Socketpair is useless on local domain sockets isn't it?
2016-01-28T00:18:33Z jasom: pillton: yes, but there aren't local domain sockets on windows
2016-01-28T00:21:14Z pillton: jasom: Ah. I used named pipes on windows.
2016-01-28T00:28:02Z malice joined #lisp
2016-01-28T00:28:18Z heddwch is now known as sorti
2016-01-28T00:28:26Z sorti is now known as heddwch
2016-01-28T00:29:02Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-28T00:29:25Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T00:29:30Z malice: Hello! Is there no restart called "retry"? I am trying to get how to do restarts in the project I am working on, so I am using some sandbox project to test it. Here's code: http://ix.io/nXo
2016-01-28T00:30:23Z malice: Long story short, I signal a condition. If I do it by hand, it has a condition case "retry" at 0.
2016-01-28T00:30:40Z malice: I wanted to run it automatically, but it doesn't find such restart. Am I doing something wrong?
2016-01-28T00:31:13Z jasom: malice: restarts are named by symbols, not strings
2016-01-28T00:31:56Z malice: jasom: I did (find-restart 'retry).
2016-01-28T00:32:22Z malice: Oh, yes. Sorry about that, it looked like I meant string.
2016-01-28T00:32:25Z jasom: malice: try using compute-restarts to see which restarts are available
2016-01-28T00:32:53Z pillton: malice: You need to make sure the dynamic environment contains the retry restart.
2016-01-28T00:32:53Z malice: Oh, that's a useful one. Thanks a lot!
2016-01-28T00:33:14Z malice: Now it works! Thanks guys :)
2016-01-28T00:33:21Z malice: It was 'swank::retry
2016-01-28T00:34:14Z jasom: malice: and swank::retry is obviously part of swank, so less usefull if you're not using the debugger
2016-01-28T00:36:06Z malice: jasom: That's right, but I needed this particular restart, since I wanted it to be only present at my live(swank) session, to help me. Thanks again :)
2016-01-28T00:36:55Z malice: But thanks for heads up!
2016-01-28T00:39:15Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T00:49:06Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-28T00:50:48Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-28T00:53:37Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-28T00:53:46Z quazimod1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T00:53:46Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T00:53:54Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T00:54:25Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T01:02:32Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T01:05:36Z didi````: Multiple connections in SLIME is great.
2016-01-28T01:05:52Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:06:26Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T01:06:52Z atgreen joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:10:31Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-28T01:12:57Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-28T01:13:01Z jwynn6 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T01:14:03Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:14:25Z contrapunctus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T01:14:58Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T01:15:43Z KarlDscc joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:19:00Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:19:08Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T01:20:24Z KarlDscc quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T01:21:31Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T01:22:57Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:24:47Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:25:41Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-28T01:30:52Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T01:32:15Z didi```` quit (Quit: you can't /fire me, I /quit)
2016-01-28T01:34:22Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T01:34:39Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:36:34Z Sucks quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T01:36:51Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:37:45Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:37:57Z jeaye joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:40:26Z porky11 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-28T01:44:35Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T01:44:55Z lisse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T01:45:32Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:45:35Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:45:53Z KarlDscc joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:47:26Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T01:47:37Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:50:14Z Guest3811 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T01:50:35Z KarlDscc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T01:53:01Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-28T01:53:02Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:54:16Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:55:45Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T01:55:46Z sheilong joined #lisp
2016-01-28T01:56:23Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:00:47Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T02:01:09Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:04:47Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T02:06:54Z Sucks quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T02:08:02Z Guest84270 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-28T02:09:16Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:13:18Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-28T02:16:00Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:18:13Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T02:20:23Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-28T02:21:53Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:25:38Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T02:27:46Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T02:29:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T02:32:11Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:35:06Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T02:37:17Z opcode quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-28T02:38:44Z opcode joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:40:16Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T02:42:04Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:43:13Z Quadresce` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:44:21Z s00pcan quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-28T02:44:27Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:45:15Z Quadrescence quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T02:45:26Z s00pcan_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T02:45:52Z Guest13872 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:45:53Z Guest13872 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-28T02:45:53Z Guest13872 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:46:28Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-28T02:50:06Z Guest13872 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T02:51:12Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T02:56:00Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T03:05:20Z sheilong quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2016-01-28T03:09:11Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-28T03:10:38Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T03:11:32Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T03:12:19Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-28T03:13:40Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-28T03:19:00Z Sucks quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2016-01-28T03:19:07Z supertramp_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T03:20:33Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-28T03:23:36Z opcode quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-28T03:28:00Z supertramp_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T03:32:38Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T03:37:05Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T03:43:22Z w3pm quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-28T03:45:14Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T03:50:05Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-28T03:53:11Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T03:55:09Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-28T03:57:15Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T03:57:53Z w3pm joined #lisp
2016-01-28T03:58:32Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T04:04:16Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-28T04:04:58Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:06:57Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:08:11Z mozart_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:10:27Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:15:56Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:17:15Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:17:52Z ramus joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:24:48Z mozart_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T04:26:45Z w3pm quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-28T04:27:48Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:28:17Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T04:34:51Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:35:41Z jtz quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2016-01-28T04:38:31Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:39:25Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:39:56Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-28T04:40:47Z pcchange90 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:41:26Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T04:41:35Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T04:41:51Z opcode joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:43:03Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T04:46:26Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T04:48:22Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-28T04:55:22Z psy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-28T05:02:05Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T05:02:21Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-28T05:07:50Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:08:23Z emaczen joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:12:16Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T05:12:19Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T05:12:53Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:13:18Z gauss joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:16:02Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:17:01Z protist quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T05:19:18Z nightfly joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:19:44Z aeth quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-28T05:20:45Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:25:45Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:26:02Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-28T05:26:20Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T05:29:50Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:29:59Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-28T05:36:08Z l04m33 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:38:53Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T05:39:53Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:40:05Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:46:38Z setheus quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-28T05:47:15Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:49:54Z setheus joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:51:03Z harish quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T05:51:26Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:54:45Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T05:56:33Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T05:56:59Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T05:58:26Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T05:59:15Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:01:33Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:01:42Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-28T06:03:23Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:04:10Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T06:06:11Z Xach__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T06:10:45Z pillton: G'day beach.
2016-01-28T06:12:45Z pcchange90 left #lisp
2016-01-28T06:14:23Z warweasle quit (Quit: Sleepy. Dopey. Doc. The mouse ran up the clock. Which cut off its tail with a butcher knife which swallowed the old lady who lived in a pumkin pie and pulled out a pickled pepper.)
2016-01-28T06:14:40Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T06:17:42Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:17:46Z pcchange90 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:18:12Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:19:23Z pcchange90 left #lisp
2016-01-28T06:28:07Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:32:56Z aeth joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:33:19Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:33:52Z mordocai: Any suggestions on a slide length code snippet to show for a presentation where at least some people may not even have heard of lisp?
2016-01-28T06:34:00Z mordocai: As the first code snippet
2016-01-28T06:35:11Z elderK joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:35:26Z elderK quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T06:37:54Z jackdaniel: good morning
2016-01-28T06:38:00Z beach: Hello jackdaniel.
2016-01-28T06:38:18Z beach: mordocai: What is the background of the people in the audience?
2016-01-28T06:39:10Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T06:40:53Z mordocai: beach: Mixed. A few use clojure, a couple actually know common lisp, most haven't used any lisp before.
2016-01-28T06:41:23Z mordocai: The first few slides will be aimed toward the latter group
2016-01-28T06:41:39Z beach: I mean, are the system administrators, web developers, compiler experts, or what?
2016-01-28T06:42:54Z duper quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T06:43:14Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-28T06:43:18Z mordocai: Mixed again. It is a meetup. Most of them probably do web or app development.
2016-01-28T06:44:41Z beach: And why are they going to be there?  Because they want to learn Common Lisp?  Because someone paid them to be there?
2016-01-28T06:45:48Z beach: Sorry for questions that may seem stupid, but I am a teacher, and these are things that I ask myself in order to prepare presentations.
2016-01-28T06:47:36Z mordocai: Lol no problem, they are good questions really. It's a general "Dynamic Language" meetup so most are probably there to socialize more than anything. If they are interested in the talk it'll probably just be a curiosity more than anything. A goal would be to convince them to look into it more.
2016-01-28T06:48:41Z beach: I see.  Well, perhaps they think dynamic languages are always interpreted.  In that case, show them a disassembly.
2016-01-28T06:49:02Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T06:49:21Z mordocai: That's a good thing to show/bring up yeah.
2016-01-28T06:50:27Z beach: Maybe show them some CLOS-related code.
2016-01-28T06:50:56Z beach: Will you have slides or will you do interactive typing?
2016-01-28T06:51:21Z mordocai: The current plan is to have both.
2016-01-28T06:51:22Z beach: The latter is always more impressive.
2016-01-28T06:51:36Z jackdaniel: I'd also clarify somewhere, that CL has normal type system - I often meet this confusion that it doesn't
2016-01-28T06:55:22Z jackdaniel: beach: I've added BT backend to the PR. I'd love to hear your opinion on using it for all implementations (what implies disabling: disable-process, enable-process, restart-process, without-scheduling and atomic-* even for implementations, which have it implemented right now)
2016-01-28T06:56:23Z beach: jackdaniel: Great!  So at the moment it is used only for ECL?
2016-01-28T06:56:36Z jackdaniel: I've tested it with sbcl
2016-01-28T06:56:58Z jackdaniel: as well°
2016-01-28T06:57:11Z jackdaniel: it will work with multithreaded clisp
2016-01-28T06:57:41Z jackdaniel: and all supported platforms (if other things will work fine)
2016-01-28T06:57:43Z beach: I mean, if I merge your pull request, will I then get complaints from users of implementations other than ECL because their code broke?
2016-01-28T06:58:02Z jackdaniel: no
2016-01-28T06:58:06Z beach: Good.
2016-01-28T06:58:42Z beach: But yeah, that is an improvement that I have wanted for some time.
2016-01-28T06:59:22Z jackdaniel: but what do you think about disabling the mentioned constructs? (for consistency)
2016-01-28T06:59:46Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T07:00:01Z contrapunctus: o/
2016-01-28T07:00:02Z jackdaniel: and replacing implementations-specific backends with this one
2016-01-28T07:00:05Z jackdaniel: hi
2016-01-28T07:00:40Z contrapunctus: hey, jackdaniel
2016-01-28T07:00:56Z contrapunctus: I'm cd'ing to my directory and running 'sbcl --load my-system.asd' and getting this - http://ix.io/nY8
2016-01-28T07:01:06Z beach: jackdaniel: I merged your pull request.
2016-01-28T07:01:21Z jackdaniel: great :)
2016-01-28T07:01:54Z beach: jackdaniel: I suspect disabling those constructs won't be a problem.
2016-01-28T07:02:06Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:02:12Z contrapunctus: I'm not sure what's causing this - I don't think any code change is behind it.
2016-01-28T07:02:24Z jackdaniel: the main argument supporting that is a consistency and portability
2016-01-28T07:02:37Z beach: Sure.
2016-01-28T07:04:28Z jackdaniel: so, to be sure, you are OK with replacing mp-lw, mp-sbcl etc. with only one mp-bt, what may potentially break some code which uses these constructs? (it will be backward incompatible change)
2016-01-28T07:05:16Z beach: jackdaniel: I am OK with that, but it would be great if we could leave the old code in there in case someone does rely on it.
2016-01-28T07:05:20Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:05:43Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:05:56Z jackdaniel: right, so I'll prepare a follow-up commit. I'll just remove these backends from asd file
2016-01-28T07:05:58Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:06:16Z jackdaniel: the files will sit in the Lisp-Dep directory
2016-01-28T07:06:18Z beach: Yes, I think that's good.
2016-01-28T07:06:29Z jackdaniel: :)
2016-01-28T07:08:58Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:10:31Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-28T07:10:42Z contrapunctus: the concerned ASD FWIW - http://ix.io/nY9
2016-01-28T07:12:14Z beach: contrapunctus: I have been reprimanded in the past (by Xach for instance) for loading .asd files explicitly.
2016-01-28T07:17:24Z contrapunctus: beach: I gathered from reading around that this was how one does it. What's recommended instead?
2016-01-28T07:19:12Z beach: It is all in the ASDF documentation.  Let me see if I can find it for you.
2016-01-28T07:19:44Z cxpp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T07:19:47Z beach: https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Configuring-ASDF-to-find-your-systems.html#Configuring-ASDF-to-find-your-systems
2016-01-28T07:21:14Z beach: Personally, I put symbolic links in .local/share/common-lisp/source to the relevant directories containing my code.
2016-01-28T07:22:06Z beach: Oops.  Time to get to work!
2016-01-28T07:22:08Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-28T07:28:00Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:30:22Z contrapunctus: 'ASDF documentation' *shudders*
2016-01-28T07:30:47Z contrapunctus: thanks for the pointer
2016-01-28T07:31:21Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-28T07:34:10Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T07:34:48Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:34:50Z jtz joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:35:49Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:35:58Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:39:45Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:46:42Z munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T07:48:08Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:51:01Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-28T07:52:55Z loke_: I'm using WITH-OPEN-FILE to write to a new file. If there is an error during processing, the file gets deleted. Is this correct? The spec says that the file is closed, and mentions nothing about deletion.
2016-01-28T07:53:11Z loke_: Oh wait.
2016-01-28T07:53:26Z loke_: Sorry. I misread the spec.
2016-01-28T07:55:33Z forgot joined #lisp
2016-01-28T07:56:10Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T07:57:43Z jackdaniel: when I want to replace implementation-specific mop stuff with the closer-mop package, I should replace all clos stuff with closer-mop: ? like (closer-mop:defmethod …) ?
2016-01-28T08:01:42Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:03:43Z forgot: how to get documentation of a function? (describe #'func) doesn't look very helpful and (documentation #'func) signals error
2016-01-28T08:04:20Z loke_: forgot: (documentation 'car 'function)
2016-01-28T08:05:34Z forgot: loke_: i got nil
2016-01-28T08:05:42Z loke_: forgot: What CL are you using?
2016-01-28T08:06:01Z forgot: loke_: clisp: stable 2.49
2016-01-28T08:06:06Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T08:06:17Z freehck joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:07:03Z loke_: forgot: Don't use that
2016-01-28T08:07:21Z forgot: loke_: what should i use?
2016-01-28T08:07:29Z loke_: forgot: What operating system do you use?
2016-01-28T08:07:45Z forgot: loke_: osx 10.11.3
2016-01-28T08:07:55Z loke_: forgot: Then SBCL or CCL
2016-01-28T08:08:12Z loke_: Unless you have very specific needs, such as th eneed to integrate with Java
2016-01-28T08:08:50Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T08:08:54Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:09:39Z forgot: loke_: sbcl it is. im simply learning lisp
2016-01-28T08:09:50Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T08:09:55Z loke_: forgot: Have you getting Emacs and SLIME running properly?
2016-01-28T08:10:43Z forgot: loke_: no, i uses vim
2016-01-28T08:11:35Z loke_: forgot: Well, for CL to be enjoyable you really need a good environment. SLIME is the best one, but on on OSX you can use CCL which has a built-in OSX user interface that is supposedly decent (I never tried it)
2016-01-28T08:12:10Z loke_: http://ccl.clozure.com/download.html
2016-01-28T08:13:03Z contrapunctus: isn't there SLIMV for Vim?
2016-01-28T08:14:08Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:14:08Z forgot: im interested in emacs as well, i probably should learn emacs and clisp together
2016-01-28T08:15:04Z contrapunctus: forgot: oh, good for you; it will be great fun (and some work and learning, of course).
2016-01-28T08:15:45Z contrapunctus: forgot: note that there is a CL implementation called clisp, one usually says 'CL' or something to avoid confusion.
2016-01-28T08:16:59Z forgot: contrapunctus: right, i thought clisp IS the implementation of CL
2016-01-28T08:17:12Z forgot: *WAS
2016-01-28T08:17:42Z contrapunctus: well, yeah, I gather it's dead (but might be wrong)
2016-01-28T08:17:45Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:18:07Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T08:18:34Z flambard_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:19:28Z flambard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T08:19:29Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T08:20:42Z forgot: i've got a bad habit of skipping the setup chapter of a book. turns out it actually mentioned SLIME and SBCL
2016-01-28T08:21:08Z domyos joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:21:59Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:22:14Z forgot: time to reread. thanks to loke_ & contrapunctus
2016-01-28T08:26:40Z flambard_ is now known as flambard
2016-01-28T08:31:09Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:34:16Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:35:39Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:37:51Z loke_: CLISP is very dead
2016-01-28T08:38:21Z loke_: I don't think Clisp was ever _the_ implementation.
2016-01-28T08:39:36Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T08:39:45Z contrapunctus: loke_: I read it made small binaries (in addition to being portable across a lot of architectures and OSs)...I suppose in ECL we trust, now.
2016-01-28T08:39:55Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T08:40:47Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:43:24Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:47:19Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:49:56Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T08:50:18Z forgot: clisp does have auto-complete out of box though
2016-01-28T08:52:10Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:54:32Z ralt: if I want to start an REPL in a terminal program, connecting to a swank server, what can I do?
2016-01-28T08:54:46Z ralt: I haven't seen any relevant function in swank:
2016-01-28T08:55:14Z gauss quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T08:55:27Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:55:38Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-28T08:55:50Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-28T08:56:14Z loke_: forgot: That's true. But you never really use Lisp from the commandline.
2016-01-28T08:56:26Z loke_: You normally use it inside your development enviornment like SLIME.
2016-01-28T08:57:59Z jackdaniel: ralt: check out https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/ecl/ecl-android/blob/master/assets/lisp/etc/user.lisp#L103
2016-01-28T08:58:31Z ralt: jackdaniel: that starts the swank server, but I want a client
2016-01-28T09:00:21Z ralt: basically, it's a terminal program that runs some fork() now and then. So I need to start the swank server in :style nil (fork() doesn't work if there is any thread), but then I want an REPL to play with it. So I thought about forking a child that would create this REPL.
2016-01-28T09:00:39Z ralt: the problem is that I don't know how to get this REPL in terminal, that would connect to the swank server of the parent.
2016-01-28T09:00:49Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:01:35Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T09:03:44Z loke_: ralt: Why don't you just run Emacs in a terminal? That way you can use the full SLIME.
2016-01-28T09:05:09Z Cymew quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T09:05:11Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:05:14Z ralt: loke_ I can do that too, but...
2016-01-28T09:06:05Z ralt: it's for the init system I'm writing. So when I'm in the end, emacs might not be available. And I want to get an REPL to be able to debug if anything goes super wrong.
2016-01-28T09:06:21Z ralt: but... I might be thinking about it the wrong way.
2016-01-28T09:06:27Z ralt: I need to think more about it
2016-01-28T09:07:40Z ralt: last night I connected to my init system in a VM from my host in slime (using an ssh tunnel)
2016-01-28T09:07:48Z ralt: I could run (reboot) and the VM rebooted.
2016-01-28T09:07:50Z ralt: It felt good.
2016-01-28T09:08:14Z p_l: if it's running on linux, you can use LXC to play with it without running full VM while being able to attach gdb if you need
2016-01-28T09:09:39Z ralt: that's true
2016-01-28T09:09:46Z ralt: I didn't think about it.
2016-01-28T09:10:04Z contrapunctus: I've added the directory my project is in to the directories ASDF looks for system definitions in by using (:tree ) as specified in [1], and now I cd into that directory and run 'sbcl '--eval (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'my-system)'', (my-system.asd exists in the directory) but that doesn't seem to do anything (my system isn't loaded, but I don't get any errors either).
2016-01-28T09:10:07Z contrapunctus: [1] https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Configuring-ASDF-to-find-your-systems.html#Configuring-ASDF-to-find-your-systems
2016-01-28T09:10:09Z ralt: meanwhile, I work daily with lxc at a hosting company.
2016-01-28T09:13:13Z ralt: ah, no, I remember
2016-01-28T09:14:09Z ralt: I needed a serial console because I didn't have networking
2016-01-28T09:14:58Z ralt: p_l: gdb on a sbcl image?
2016-01-28T09:15:13Z p_l: ralt: if necessary ;)
2016-01-28T09:15:23Z ralt: that sounds like hell :P
2016-01-28T09:16:50Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:22:53Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T09:28:47Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:28:55Z contrapunctus: folks? :\
2016-01-28T09:30:11Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T09:31:23Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T09:34:31Z z0d: contrapunctus: doesn't that take a string instead of a symbol? ie. (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op "foo")
2016-01-28T09:36:47Z eli quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T09:41:26Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T09:41:40Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:42:30Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:43:46Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:45:48Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T09:45:49Z contrapunctus: z0d: that seems to not go down well with bash :(
2016-01-28T09:46:42Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:46:51Z ralt: contrapunctus: any reason you're not using slime/slimv?
2016-01-28T09:46:54Z contrapunctus: z0d: -bash: Syntaxfehler beim unerwarteten Wort `)'
2016-01-28T09:47:06Z Arathnim left #lisp
2016-01-28T09:47:30Z ralt: contrapunctus: sbcl --eval "(asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :my-system)" is what I usually use
2016-01-28T09:48:07Z contrapunctus: ralt: CLI app, trying to use it as opposed to write it. I use SLIME+Emacs otherwise.
2016-01-28T09:50:11Z ralt: contrapunctus: which app?
2016-01-28T09:52:19Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:52:44Z NeverDie_ is now known as NeverDie
2016-01-28T09:52:55Z harish_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:54:55Z contrapunctus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T09:56:47Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-28T09:58:02Z contrapunctus: z0d , ralt - worked with ralt's invocation - and getting the sort of strange errors I got in the beginning - http://ix.io/nYf
2016-01-28T09:58:09Z contrapunctus: (sorry, disconnected by powercut)
2016-01-28T09:59:06Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-28T09:59:49Z Wasdaf joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:00:01Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:00:55Z ralt: contrapunctus: that sounds like an error in the package
2016-01-28T10:00:59Z ralt: e.g. in its dependencies
2016-01-28T10:02:01Z contrapunctus: ralt: you mean the CL package? (namespace?)
2016-01-28T10:02:22Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T10:03:08Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:04:33Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:07:17Z contrapunctus: ralt: system def file + package defs - http://ix.io/nY9/cl
2016-01-28T10:10:48Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:10:59Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T10:11:04Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:13:51Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T10:14:10Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:14:35Z ralt: contrapunctus: don't you need sb-int in the depends-on?
2016-01-28T10:18:43Z contrapunctus: ralt: I do not know what that is (I'm guessing it's an SBCL extension) and I haven't (atleast, not knowingly) used that in this program
2016-01-28T10:20:04Z ralt: contrapunctus in your first ix.io, is it the full log?
2016-01-28T10:20:59Z flip214: latest-amusement.html, anyone?
2016-01-28T10:21:20Z flip214: ah, that's scheme, not lisp. sorry for the noise.
2016-01-28T10:22:06Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T10:23:53Z dim: nice, I think I just exhausted heap in SBCL just by tracing a function which returns huge arrays
2016-01-28T10:25:08Z contrapunctus: ralt: do you refer to this? http://ix.io/nY8/cl If you refresh it, I've added the debugger's messages as well. That was all I got.
2016-01-28T10:25:23Z contrapunctus: s/messages/prompt/
2016-01-28T10:26:46Z contrapunctus: dim: related? (defun print-names (dir) (mapc #'print (uiop:directory-files dir)) (mapc #'print-names (uiop:subdirectories dir)))
2016-01-28T10:27:03Z contrapunctus: :D
2016-01-28T10:27:48Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T10:28:19Z ralt: contrapunctus: that's weird.
2016-01-28T10:30:40Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T10:32:02Z radioninja_work quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T10:32:20Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:32:51Z kenanb: is there a standard function that ignores everything and return nil
2016-01-28T10:33:29Z contrapunctus: I think (values)
2016-01-28T10:33:49Z contrapunctus: ralt: Incidentally, I tried running this same program with the same invocation (I was still --load'ing the system def file then, though) on a Debian Stable system (this is Debian Testing), and it worked just fine...however, I am not certain if it was the exact same code.
2016-01-28T10:34:14Z kenanb: contrapunctus: (list (values 1 2 3)) => (1)
2016-01-28T10:35:00Z contrapunctus: oh.
2016-01-28T10:37:55Z splittist: kenanb: (defun sink (&rest rest) (declare (ignore rest)) nil) ?
2016-01-28T10:38:47Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:38:55Z kenanb: splittist: exactly that. but I was thinking maybe it already exists.
2016-01-28T10:38:59Z kenanb: I guess not
2016-01-28T10:39:18Z splittist: kenanb: probably (:
2016-01-28T10:40:05Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:40:46Z arbv: kananb: There is even more interesting question. Why do you need one?
2016-01-28T10:40:57Z tessier quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T10:41:03Z kenanb: splittist: still, thank you very much, my definition was named ignore-function because ignore is a symbol defined in cl, so you provided me a better name :D
2016-01-28T10:41:52Z moore33: kenanb: (constantly nil)
2016-01-28T10:45:34Z kenanb: arbv: it was needed as a default so plugin authors of my program can test their plugin templates before actually providing a function to be called when plugin is run
2016-01-28T10:46:39Z kenanb: arbv: I don't actually need it anymore because I am moving the system to CLOs so I can simply create a default method that ignores everything, but still, I wanted to know if it exists when I saw my old code
2016-01-28T10:47:00Z kenanb: moore33: that actually works very nicely, thank you!
2016-01-28T10:47:19Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:47:29Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:47:30Z moore33: kenanb: Cool.
2016-01-28T10:47:49Z kenanb: from CLHS: constantly returns a function that accepts any number of arguments, that has no side-effects, and that always returns value.
2016-01-28T10:48:22Z kenanb: dammit, they did not only provided the function, they provided a generic version :) as always.
2016-01-28T10:48:33Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T10:49:24Z knicklux quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2016-01-28T10:50:09Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-28T10:51:54Z contrapunctus: ralt: I think I'll try it with ECL
2016-01-28T10:53:20Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T10:54:48Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T11:02:00Z gaya- joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:02:15Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T11:10:55Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T11:12:39Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:13:00Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-28T11:13:29Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:14:26Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-28T11:14:54Z contrapunctus: ralt: Works with ECL.
2016-01-28T11:15:15Z contrapunctus: (and does ECL take a gigantic amount of time to load a system or what o_o)
2016-01-28T11:16:30Z flip214: XachX: is there some way to tell SBCL to put prefetch instructions in, for tight (CDR list) loops?
2016-01-28T11:17:11Z XachX: flip214: I don't know.
2016-01-28T11:18:21Z jackdaniel: contrapunctus: what system? if you have many deps, the first load will take some time
2016-01-28T11:18:30Z jackdaniel: because it compiles it, and gcc isn't very fast
2016-01-28T11:18:31Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:19:27Z contrapunctus: jackdaniel: system as in OS, linux distro, or CL system?
2016-01-28T11:19:38Z jackdaniel: CL system
2016-01-28T11:19:43Z jackdaniel: what are you trying to do?
2016-01-28T11:20:35Z bogwonch quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T11:21:30Z jackdaniel: contrapunctus: you may provide `:verbose t` to quickload if you want to see what's happening
2016-01-28T11:22:11Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T11:22:34Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:22:38Z contrapunctus: jackdaniel: you're right, it's faster now. I was loading the system def of my program (which is small (two small files) but depends on optima, serapeum and uiop)
2016-01-28T11:22:46Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:23:05Z jackdaniel: and they probably depend on something else :)
2016-01-28T11:23:13Z contrapunctus: heh, indeed
2016-01-28T11:23:26Z jackdaniel: first load may take time
2016-01-28T11:23:58Z jackdaniel: but now, unless you'll wipe cache or they'll get updated it should be ok
2016-01-28T11:25:19Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:26:11Z contrapunctus: cool, thanks :)
2016-01-28T11:26:43Z flip214: XachX: I thought I asked because you're doing all that advanced stuff with SBCL, according to your blog.  ;)  thanks, anyway!
2016-01-28T11:27:03Z XachX: flip214: what blog?
2016-01-28T11:27:13Z josteink quit (Quit: brb. upgrading weechat from ancient-debian/ubuntu version)
2016-01-28T11:27:32Z josteink joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:30:52Z sun joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:32:02Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:32:44Z radioninja_work quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T11:34:29Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:36:01Z kenanb left #lisp
2016-01-28T11:37:39Z flip214: XachX: xach.livejournal.com ??
2016-01-28T11:38:22Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-28T11:39:35Z Munksgaard left #lisp
2016-01-28T11:39:38Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:44:32Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:44:52Z Wasdaf quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-28T11:48:19Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:48:23Z _cosmona` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:58:51Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-28T11:58:51Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-28T11:58:51Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:00:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T12:01:54Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T12:02:32Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:03:40Z _cosmona` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T12:03:45Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T12:04:09Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:05:39Z porky11 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T12:05:53Z flip214: oh shit, wrong person again. I keep mixing you up!
2016-01-28T12:08:18Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:11:46Z sun quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-28T12:12:03Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:12:55Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:13:09Z eudoxia quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T12:15:46Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:16:17Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:16:21Z phoe_krk quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T12:17:56Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T12:20:21Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-28T12:20:24Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:21:23Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:27:00Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:27:17Z didi joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:27:46Z didi left #lisp
2016-01-28T12:32:31Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T12:33:45Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:34:49Z sun joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:38:35Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:41:14Z X-Scale joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:43:08Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T12:47:02Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:48:19Z gauss joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:49:04Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:50:26Z gauss: hi! is there function to replace part(subsequence) of a list?  (func '(q) '(1 2) '( (1 2) (3 4) (5 6) ) ) => ((q) (3 4) (5 6))
2016-01-28T12:51:39Z phoe_krk: gauss: no idea, but it would be fairly easy to write one
2016-01-28T12:51:42Z moore33: gauss sublis may do what you want.
2016-01-28T12:52:08Z moore33: or subst.
2016-01-28T12:58:28Z antoszka: If you want to replace part of a sequence with another sequence of a different length, there isn't anything in the standard to do that.
2016-01-28T12:58:52Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-28T12:58:58Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T12:58:59Z ramky quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T12:59:11Z gauss: thanks
2016-01-28T12:59:19Z antoszka: See the new book by Edi Weitz for a nice sample implementation of splice ;)
2016-01-28T13:00:47Z contrapunctus: isn't there anything in Alexandria or Serapeum?
2016-01-28T13:03:00Z antoszka: https://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/draft/alexandria.html ← looking here can't see anything at first glance.
2016-01-28T13:03:12Z antoszka: And Edi would've probably mentioned it in the book.
2016-01-28T13:03:45Z antoszka: Never heard of Serapeum, though, got me curious. :)
2016-01-28T13:03:51Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:03:52Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T13:04:22Z jackdaniel: it's alexandria addendum
2016-01-28T13:04:53Z BitPuffin quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-28T13:05:29Z itPuffinB joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:05:37Z contrapunctus: serapeum seems to not be very well known, somehow - https://github.com/TBRSS/serapeum/blob/master/reference.md
2016-01-28T13:05:39Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:05:55Z sun quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T13:06:13Z itPuffinB is now known as BitPuffin
2016-01-28T13:08:02Z antoszka: Yeah, just browsed the sequence and list functions – can't really see anything like that.
2016-01-28T13:08:07Z moore33: serapeum has interesting stuff.
2016-01-28T13:09:06Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:11:00Z FreeBird_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:11:11Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:13:55Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:16:34Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:16:35Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:19:17Z jackdaniel: moore33: have you ever worked with list-pane in mcclim?
2016-01-28T13:20:12Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:21:00Z moore33: jackdaniel: Not in this decade :) Ok, perhaps in this decade.
2016-01-28T13:21:35Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:21:43Z jackdaniel: nvm, I've managed to do it. there is apparently a bug regarding default width/height
2016-01-28T13:21:48Z jackdaniel: :)
2016-01-28T13:23:20Z Posterdati: hi
2016-01-28T13:23:21Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T13:24:37Z jackdaniel: o/
2016-01-28T13:25:11Z Posterdati: please I need help to use gsll multiroot, I followed the example at the end of roots-multi.lisp, but I did not understand how to pass function to solve parameters
2016-01-28T13:26:53Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:28:03Z reb`` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:28:05Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:29:54Z gauss quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T13:30:00Z reb` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:30:53Z algae joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:32:32Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:32:32Z bogwonch quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T13:34:11Z zacharias quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2016-01-28T13:34:30Z taij33n quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:35:05Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:38:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:38:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:38:49Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:40:42Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:41:20Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:41:25Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T13:41:57Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:43:59Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:45:29Z taij33n joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:47:27Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:50:45Z tobel quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:51:04Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:51:27Z sweater is now known as Guest44245
2016-01-28T13:51:50Z tobel joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:52:25Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T13:54:20Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T13:54:46Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T13:56:00Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T13:58:53Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:02:56Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:05:30Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-28T14:07:00Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-28T14:07:00Z jtza8 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T14:07:01Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:08:09Z loke: A new blog post about Potato services, in case anyone is interested:
2016-01-28T14:08:14Z loke: http://blog.potato.network/post/138214960664/potato-services
2016-01-28T14:09:04Z Wojciech__K joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:09:18Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:09:21Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:11:06Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T14:11:48Z Wojciech_K_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T14:12:29Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:13:03Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-28T14:13:06Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:16:14Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T14:20:06Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:22:27Z splittist: loke: State Servers, 3rd para "subscribes" should be "subscribers"
2016-01-28T14:27:40Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T14:28:21Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:33:24Z eli joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:34:05Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:35:30Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:35:57Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T14:36:35Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:39:23Z je4i quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T14:39:39Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:41:37Z lispnewbie quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-28T14:44:14Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-28T14:45:40Z dfcat quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T14:47:00Z flip214: loke: "will not bering down" => "bring"§
2016-01-28T14:47:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:51:29Z jeaye quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-28T14:53:10Z cadadar joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:54:18Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:54:28Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-28T14:54:49Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:55:54Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T14:56:28Z IPmonger quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T14:56:45Z IPmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:59:07Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T14:59:07Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-28T14:59:07Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:05:44Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:09:20Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T15:09:38Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-28T15:09:42Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:10:54Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:15:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T15:20:04Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-28T15:23:57Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:24:23Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:25:40Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:26:01Z warweasle quit (Quit: bbb)
2016-01-28T15:28:14Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:28:59Z PinealGlandOptic left #lisp
2016-01-28T15:29:11Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-28T15:29:11Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-28T15:31:26Z Heranort quit (Quit: Ah, my macbook is gonna sleep!)
2016-01-28T15:31:41Z hiyosi quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-28T15:32:37Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T15:35:38Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T15:37:16Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:44:25Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:44:56Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:46:25Z Munksgaard quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-28T15:48:22Z holycow_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:49:36Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:50:07Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:52:02Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:52:33Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T15:53:04Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-28T15:53:04Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:02:08Z kephasp joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:02:09Z fu7mu4 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:03:36Z prohobo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:04:56Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-28T16:05:10Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T16:06:04Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:08:09Z fu7mu4 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T16:13:40Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-28T16:15:49Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:16:40Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T16:17:43Z Yanez quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T16:20:33Z fiddlerwoaroof: 2
2016-01-28T16:21:17Z PHP_Ninja joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:21:23Z PHP_Ninja quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T16:21:34Z Meow-J joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:22:04Z mordocai: Is almost as lonely as 1
2016-01-28T16:24:00Z lisse quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-28T16:24:47Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-28T16:26:18Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T16:27:10Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T16:27:21Z Yanez joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:27:55Z Yanez quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T16:28:45Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T16:29:37Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-28T16:29:42Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:30:07Z psy joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:30:27Z psy quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-28T16:30:46Z _sjs_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:31:51Z psy joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:31:53Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T16:33:08Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-28T16:35:40Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T16:41:38Z domyos quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T16:45:20Z loke: flip214 and splittist, thanks guys. I updated the post.
2016-01-28T16:47:28Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:49:06Z quasus joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:53:55Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:54:27Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:55:36Z fiddlerwoaroof: 3
2016-01-28T16:56:26Z oleo: sup sup
2016-01-28T16:56:46Z buyfn joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:57:43Z Nikotiini quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-28T16:58:26Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-28T16:58:40Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T17:00:20Z buyfn quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-28T17:02:34Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:02:50Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:03:20Z bogwonch quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T17:03:26Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:07:08Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:07:08Z tessier quit (Changing host)
2016-01-28T17:07:08Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:10:28Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:11:06Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-01-28T17:11:30Z failproofshark is now known as thelittlesharkth
2016-01-28T17:11:35Z thelittlesharkth is now known as failproofshark
2016-01-28T17:11:40Z atgreen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T17:12:55Z moore33: beach:Yo.
2016-01-28T17:16:05Z beach: Help me make a decision.  In X11, the bottom 3 modifier mask positions (0, 1, and 2) have fixed meaning (shift, lock, control).  Position 3 (mod1) seems to be used for Alt/Meta pretty much everywhere.  But what about Hyper and Super?  I need to decide between two solutions.
2016-01-28T17:16:12Z beach: Solution 1: Decide that they have fixed positions (which ones?).  Solution 2: Use whatever position has the corresponding keysym in it.
2016-01-28T17:16:14Z beach: The first solution makes it impossible for the user to have any other mapping.  The second solution makes it impossible to have only some unrelated key (say Right Shift) mean Hyper or Super.  For that to be possible, the user must map the keycode for a particular key to the keysym for Hyper or Super.
2016-01-28T17:17:34Z beach: For solution 1, is there a tradition, i.e, is one of Hyper/Super considered "higher" than the other?
2016-01-28T17:17:42Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-28T17:17:50Z ralt: beachfor Super, isn't it mod4?
2016-01-28T17:18:10Z ralt: well, traditionally, it is mod4 afaik
2016-01-28T17:18:19Z Posterdati: hi
2016-01-28T17:18:21Z beach: I am willing to believe you.  Where did you find this information?
2016-01-28T17:18:37Z ralt: err, let me find some links
2016-01-28T17:18:52Z beach: If there is such a tradition, that would be great.
2016-01-28T17:18:58Z Posterdati: is there any gsll user? I need help solving a multi-dimensional system
2016-01-28T17:18:59Z beach: What about Hyper?
2016-01-28T17:19:00Z ralt: beach: that's how awesome wm calls Super everywhere in its doc
2016-01-28T17:19:20Z antoszka: Most wm I've dealt with always had super/win as mod4 as well.
2016-01-28T17:19:22Z beach: OK, that's a good data point.
2016-01-28T17:19:23Z antoszka: wm's*
2016-01-28T17:19:28Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:19:42Z jasom: I don't think I've ever seen an x11 setup with a hyper
2016-01-28T17:19:44Z beach: Good, good.
2016-01-28T17:20:12Z ralt: I don't remember ever coming across Hyper either, that said
2016-01-28T17:20:15Z ralt: so I can't help there
2016-01-28T17:20:52Z ralt: I think i3 calls super mod4 too
2016-01-28T17:21:02Z beach: Excellent!
2016-01-28T17:21:21Z beach: So is Hyper "higher level" in some way than Super?  If so, I should stick Hyper on mod5.
2016-01-28T17:21:26Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-28T17:21:33Z ralt: yep: https://i3wm.org/docs/userguide.html#_using_i3
2016-01-28T17:21:49Z ralt: beach: I don't know what Hyper is, tbh\
2016-01-28T17:22:12Z jasom: ralt: symbolics had a hyper and X support I think
2016-01-28T17:22:58Z ralt: well... http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/i/lisp-machine-keyboard-2-left.jpg
2016-01-28T17:23:05Z antoszka: I think Hyper is a legal modifier in X, but yeah, it'd certainly be „higher” than Super.
2016-01-28T17:23:19Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T17:23:35Z shka: yes
2016-01-28T17:23:38Z shka: hyper is in x
2016-01-28T17:23:39Z knicklux quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2016-01-28T17:23:39Z beach: Great!  So I'll stick Super on mod4 and Hyper on mod5.
2016-01-28T17:23:50Z jasom: my modmap has level3_shift as mod5 fwiw
2016-01-28T17:23:59Z shka: beach: hi, how are you?
2016-01-28T17:24:14Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:24:15Z shka: feeling better?
2016-01-28T17:24:18Z ralt: well, emacs has support for the hyper key, so I guess it makes sense to support it
2016-01-28T17:24:22Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:24:34Z beach: shka: Not yet.  Tomorrow I hope to fix this problem once and for all.
2016-01-28T17:24:48Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T17:24:51Z beach: jasom: What is level3_shift?
2016-01-28T17:24:53Z shka: ok
2016-01-28T17:24:57Z jasom: beach: AltGr
2016-01-28T17:25:03Z jocuman joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:25:04Z knicklux quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-28T17:25:14Z TMA: beach: the default mapping seems to have hyper and super both as mod4: http://superuser.com/questions/277990/how-do-i-swap-alt-and-windows-keys-with-xmodmap
2016-01-28T17:25:23Z beach: jasom: So is that good or bad if I stick Hyper on mod5?
2016-01-28T17:25:31Z jasom: beach: no clue
2016-01-28T17:25:34Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:25:41Z beach: TMA: Crap!
2016-01-28T17:25:51Z jasom: I *think* that emacs does it by tracking keypress key release, not by using mod1-5
2016-01-28T17:26:02Z beach: OK.
2016-01-28T17:26:33Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T17:26:37Z beach: So I'll do Meta and Super fixed positions, and I'll look for a Hyper keysym attached to some modifier.
2016-01-28T17:26:37Z shka: beach: what kind of characters were produced by hyper anyway?
2016-01-28T17:26:42Z jasom: and I'm wrong as alt no longer works as meta if I clear mod1
2016-01-28T17:27:18Z beach: jasom: From what I have read, Meta and Alt are the same and they are traditionally mod1.
2016-01-28T17:27:32Z beach: shka: There are not characters associated with Hyper.
2016-01-28T17:27:48Z shka: ok, so it is not like alt-gr
2016-01-28T17:27:57Z jasom: beach: there was no alt on the lisp machine and no meta on PC, so that sounds right
2016-01-28T17:27:59Z ralt: shka: on some keyboards, it is
2016-01-28T17:28:02Z beach: It is exactly like alt-gr.
2016-01-28T17:28:03Z shka: just been wondering
2016-01-28T17:28:16Z shka: hmmmm
2016-01-28T17:28:18Z shka: ok
2016-01-28T17:28:25Z ralt: shka: http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/i/lisp-machine-keyboard-2-left.jpg
2016-01-28T17:28:32Z p_l: beach: Meta and Alt are not exactly the same but kind-of got merged in practice due to lack of keys
2016-01-28T17:28:38Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T17:28:50Z beach: p_l: I see.
2016-01-28T17:28:57Z shka: ralt: what rubout key does?
2016-01-28T17:29:05Z antoszka: shka: backspace
2016-01-28T17:29:06Z p_l: shka: it's delete
2016-01-28T17:29:11Z antoszka: er… delete
2016-01-28T17:29:11Z p_l: not backspace, iirc
2016-01-28T17:29:14Z antoszka: yeah, delete.
2016-01-28T17:29:38Z shka: interesting name
2016-01-28T17:29:53Z antoszka: as in: ^d rather than ^h, to introduce yet another level of abstraction :)
2016-01-28T17:29:57Z beach: OK, a decision has been made.  Thanks to everyone for the help in this matter.
2016-01-28T17:30:55Z p_l: beach: at least on my system, Super is by default attached to "windows key", and "Hyper" to "Menu"
2016-01-28T17:31:18Z beach: p_l: OK, but I don't think that part is important.
2016-01-28T17:31:35Z beach: What I need to know is the corresponding modifier mask position.
2016-01-28T17:32:15Z ccaffeini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T17:33:15Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:33:15Z jasom: I don't think anyone will complain if they need to move hyper to mod5 from the default in order to use hyper-foo shortcuts; in fact I would wager that the number of people who will use hyper shortcuts at all is only slightly larger than the number of people currently typing on a lisp machine keyboard
2016-01-28T17:33:44Z beach: Good point.
2016-01-28T17:34:06Z shka never actually seen functional lisp machine
2016-01-28T17:34:17Z TMA: btw mod3 is completely devoid of keys attached in the default configuration
2016-01-28T17:34:36Z jasom: I saw one with the high-res monochrome display in the 90s
2016-01-28T17:36:45Z beach: TMA: I confirm that this is the case on my computer.
2016-01-28T17:37:33Z beach: TMA: Does that suggest any particular solution to my problem?
2016-01-28T17:38:07Z mordocai needs pedals so he can have all the modifier keys
2016-01-28T17:38:28Z creat joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:38:36Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:39:07Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T17:39:29Z ccaffeini joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:40:16Z beach: TMA: It does, doesn't it?  I should put Hyper on mod3 so as not to change the meaning of mod5 in case it means mode switch or something else.
2016-01-28T17:40:57Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:42:02Z edgar-rft: beach: <http://www.walyou.com/img/largest-keyboard-world-textile-4.jpg>
2016-01-28T17:42:03Z TMA: beach: maybe you could use it for hyper to avoid the iso-level-3-shift clash -- the users will still need to separate hyper from super and it will allow them to use level3 shift for their usual purpose
2016-01-28T17:42:38Z gaya- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-28T17:43:56Z IAmRasputin joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:44:12Z contrapunctus left #lisp
2016-01-28T17:44:27Z beach: TMA: Yes, I agree.
2016-01-28T17:44:45Z ralt: beach: I personally wouldn'
2016-01-28T17:44:53Z ralt: ... wouldn't even bother with hyper.
2016-01-28T17:45:57Z beach: I'll make it a Common Lisp variable that can be changed with a default value of Mod3.
2016-01-28T17:46:07Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:46:21Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:46:21Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:46:24Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:46:34Z test1600 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T17:46:56Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:46:57Z oleo_ quit (Changing host)
2016-01-28T17:46:57Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:47:25Z IAmRasputin: Is there some way to see a list of which systems have been loaded by asdf:load-system?  I'm still wrapping my head around how asdf works, so if I'm thinking about this wrong please correct me.
2016-01-28T17:47:42Z test1600_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T17:48:01Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:48:26Z test1600_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T17:49:00Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:49:11Z oleo_: *features* ?
2016-01-28T17:49:32Z attila_lendvai: IAmRasputin: (asdf:already-loaded-systems)
2016-01-28T17:49:34Z jasom: oleo_: most systems don't register features
2016-01-28T17:49:49Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:49:56Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T17:50:22Z attila_lendvai: IAmRasputin: or if you only care about whether the .asd's have been loaded: (registered-systems*)
2016-01-28T17:51:02Z IAmRasputin: attila_lendvai: Thanks!  I'll try this out.
2016-01-28T17:52:31Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-28T17:52:45Z synchromesh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T17:53:00Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:55:40Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-28T17:56:15Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-28T17:56:15Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T17:58:43Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-28T17:59:08Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:00:07Z jackdaniel: beach: does mcclim support unicode characters? I have problems with things like łęśćó etc
2016-01-28T18:00:09Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T18:00:14Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:00:27Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:04:57Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:06:07Z knicklux quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T18:06:39Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:07:16Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T18:08:44Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T18:09:00Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:10:15Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T18:11:25Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:12:00Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T18:13:28Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:14:42Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T18:15:58Z attila_lendvai: could anyone remind me what's the current stance on asdf's :perform inline methods? are they deprecated, or not?
2016-01-28T18:16:16Z attila_lendvai can't find the relevant part in the asdf code
2016-01-28T18:16:37Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:18:57Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T18:20:46Z loke quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T18:20:52Z loke joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:21:05Z attila_lendvai: ok, e506e91a226abcfd2a0eaaa1a0251c41464d8267 states that it's not deprecated
2016-01-28T18:24:05Z w3pm joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:24:16Z IAmRasputin: Is there a standard name for #+/#- syntax?  Symbols are sort of hard to google.
2016-01-28T18:25:22Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:27:08Z mordocai: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw61/CLHS/Body/02_dhq.htm
2016-01-28T18:27:54Z IAmRasputin: My hero
2016-01-28T18:27:57Z IAmRasputin: Thanks!
2016-01-28T18:29:53Z mordocai: IAmRasputin: I had the same problem rather recently :P
2016-01-28T18:30:34Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-28T18:33:18Z kdas_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:33:52Z IAmRasputin: mordocai: So does that just check against *features*?
2016-01-28T18:33:53Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:35:11Z mordocai: IAmRasputin: That's my understanding. See http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/24_aba.htm for more detail
2016-01-28T18:35:22Z mordocai: I'm pretty new too though so don't take my word as gospel
2016-01-28T18:35:26Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T18:35:55Z Baggers joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:36:21Z IAmRasputin: Yeah, I was reading that, but it wasn't entirely clear about that.
2016-01-28T18:42:14Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:42:30Z iskander quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T18:43:27Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:44:08Z beach: jackdaniel: The output works for Unicode.  Is this for input you are talking about?
2016-01-28T18:44:40Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:45:35Z kdas_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T18:47:27Z beach: jackdaniel: I need to go, but I'll read the logs tomorrow morning (UTC+1) to see your answer.  If it is about input, I think the same defect that does not allow for CapsLock to become a control key is probably preventing input from alternative groups.
2016-01-28T18:47:31Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-28T18:47:45Z jackdaniel: beach: depends on the perspective you take :) I mean – clim widget has problems when rendering string with characters like that
2016-01-28T18:47:48Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-28T18:48:35Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:49:30Z IAmRasputin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T18:51:18Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:52:02Z IAmRasputin joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:56:00Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-28T18:59:21Z Guest14 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:02:21Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:02:49Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:02:50Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-28T19:04:33Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T19:04:34Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:10:02Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T19:10:51Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:11:32Z prohobo quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-28T19:11:38Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:14:25Z josteink quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2016-01-28T19:14:58Z ggole quit
2016-01-28T19:15:27Z josteink joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:19:07Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:20:31Z kephasp quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T19:21:44Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T19:22:15Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T19:23:06Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T19:23:40Z wooden_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T19:25:10Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:25:18Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: battery)
2016-01-28T19:27:10Z pjb: minion: memo for learning: use tracing-flet and tracing-labels, of course!  com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.utility:tracing-labels  alternatively, use cl-stepper.
2016-01-28T19:27:10Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell learning when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-28T19:28:39Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:30:04Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:35:00Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T19:36:13Z pjb: inio
2016-01-28T19:36:51Z pjb: minion: memo for gauss: use replace-subseq of course. com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.sequence:replace-subseq
2016-01-28T19:36:51Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell gauss when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-28T19:37:29Z pjb: minion: memo for gauss: of course, you can also use CL:REPLACE, but only if the replaced part is of same length as the replacement.
2016-01-28T19:37:29Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell gauss when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-28T19:38:01Z pjb: minion: memo for gauss: and mind CL:FILL, when you want to replace the whole sequence!
2016-01-28T19:38:01Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell gauss when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-28T19:39:14Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-28T19:43:38Z pjb: minion: memo for beach: you might be interested by my ~/.xmodmap: http://paste.lisp.org/display/306071 the modifier section indicates that I have Shift Lock Control Num_Lock Alt Meta Super Hyper in the order of bits.
2016-01-28T19:43:38Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-28T19:45:09Z pjb: minion: memo for beach: the conclusion to be drawn, is that you don't have to use Mod1-Mod5. You can deal with the X11 keysyms directly, and therefore let the user map them to the bits they want. Notably, different window managers DO expect different keysyms on Mod2!
2016-01-28T19:45:09Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-28T19:46:37Z isoraqathedh: Is there a way for quickproject:make-project to use a different package name than the default (and instead use something that is some text prepended onto the project name)?
2016-01-28T19:47:16Z pjb: minion: memo for beach: Also, I chosed the order from some older source, unfortunately I don't remember which.
2016-01-28T19:47:16Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-28T19:47:59Z pjb: isoraqathedh: you don'thave to use make-project.  emacs works perfectly well. When you C-x C-f a path that lacks directory, upon saving it tells you how to create the directories.
2016-01-28T19:48:29Z pjb: isoraqathedh: and if you use make-project, please, pretty please, do remove the stub comments!
2016-01-28T19:48:51Z kephasp joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:49:15Z pjb: ralt: emacs doesn't use Alt, super and Hyper, so they're free for you to use as you wish!
2016-01-28T19:50:47Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:53:14Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T19:53:33Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:53:46Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:54:30Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:55:10Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:57:56Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T19:58:03Z Denommus quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2016-01-28T20:01:13Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:04:17Z Wojciech__K quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T20:08:02Z mrottenkolber: Hi, has anyone successfully run qtools on CCL 1.10?
2016-01-28T20:08:16Z mrottenkolber: I keep getting errors when trying to load it via quicklisp
2016-01-28T20:09:08Z mordocai: mrottenkolber: I would recommend showing the errors you are getting.
2016-01-28T20:14:17Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T20:16:14Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:16:21Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2016-01-28T20:20:06Z IAmRasputin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T20:26:26Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:28:01Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T20:28:15Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T20:29:24Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T20:29:32Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-28T20:29:46Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T20:30:11Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T20:32:23Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T20:32:36Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-28T20:32:38Z mrottenkolber: Reader error: No external symbol named "ARGV0" in package #<Package "UIOP/DRIVER"> .
2016-01-28T20:33:50Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:36:01Z PuercoPop: mrottenkolber: I would intuit that the error is in parsing "argv/argc" in the uiop code
2016-01-28T20:37:12Z thoto quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T20:38:18Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:38:39Z PuercoPop: ok, on the old CCL I have lying around the problem is that uiop:file-exists-p does not exist. I am guessing the issue is why an old ASDF version
2016-01-28T20:39:17Z PuercoPop: qtools should include uiop as an explicit dependency at the very least
2016-01-28T20:41:00Z PuercoPop: and with a version ideally
2016-01-28T20:41:29Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:42:01Z iskander: am i correct in assuming that cxml and dom-parser interpret newlines in an xml file as empty text nodes ?
2016-01-28T20:42:10Z PuercoPop: but the fastest way to get it running would be to update the asdf of your implementation, which is fairly painless.
2016-01-28T20:42:26Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T20:42:37Z molbdnilo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:43:27Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:43:48Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:44:53Z mrottenkolber: How do I do that?
2016-01-28T20:45:36Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:46:06Z mordocai: I haven't done it but per readme on the asdf github mirror you use this https://github.com/fare/asdf/blob/master/tools/install-asdf.lisp
2016-01-28T20:46:19Z PuercoPop: mrottenkolber: just download the latest asdf.lisp and load it in your rc file https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/#downloads
2016-01-28T20:46:29Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T20:46:36Z PuercoPop: that is how I did it a while a back iirc
2016-01-28T20:47:26Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-28T20:47:29Z ryan_vw quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T20:51:22Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-28T20:54:47Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T20:55:36Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:56:21Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-28T20:59:08Z mrottenkolber: Ok that worked (I think), now I get this error when trying out the "qtools-intro": No methods named "MAKE-QLINEEDIT" found.
2016-01-28T21:00:05Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:00:55Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:02:50Z scottj joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:02:50Z vmonteco joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:02:53Z vmonteco: Hello ! :)
2016-01-28T21:03:15Z mrottenkolber: Apparently qt-libs failes to build
2016-01-28T21:03:21Z mrottenkolber: CMake Error: File /home/max/.cache/common-lisp/ccl-1.10-f96-linux-x64/usr/lib/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/qt-libs-20150923-git/smokegen/source/cmake/BasicFindPackageVersion.cmake.in does not exist.
2016-01-28T21:05:05Z prohobo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:05:10Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T21:05:35Z streamofconsciou joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:05:56Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:09:23Z mrottenkolber: So.... there is QL:UNINSTALL-DIST, but now QL:INSTALL-DIST? How do I undo uninstalling the "quicklisp" dist?
2016-01-28T21:12:06Z rtra joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:12:55Z mordocai: You probably just want (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") but otherwise per http://blog.quicklisp.org/2011/08/going-back-in-dist-time.html looks like install-dist is in the ql-dist package
2016-01-28T21:13:05Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T21:13:20Z prohobo quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-28T21:14:34Z streamofconsciou is now known as nzt48
2016-01-28T21:14:47Z Guest14 quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T21:18:36Z attila_lendvai: what does the standard say about a compiler macro defined on FOO calling FOO in its body? CLHS on define-compiler-macro doesn't say much
2016-01-28T21:19:38Z nzt48 is now known as hopeless
2016-01-28T21:20:32Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T21:20:38Z freehck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T21:22:26Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:23:46Z attila_lendvai: well, declare notinline can disable compiler macros, so I guess I can be safe regardless of how it is defined
2016-01-28T21:24:21Z ep joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:24:47Z hopeless is now known as thecountoftuscan
2016-01-28T21:26:25Z molbdnilo quit (Quit: molbdnilo)
2016-01-28T21:26:47Z mordocai: So reading "The Evolution of Lisp" makes me really want Interlisp's masterscope and "Update code structure in repl, persisted to file automatically" features.
2016-01-28T21:29:00Z attila_lendvai: are there platforms out there where C int and long are the same size? working on cffi tests...
2016-01-28T21:29:36Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T21:29:38Z thecountoftuscan left #lisp
2016-01-28T21:30:46Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:30:55Z algae quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-28T21:31:50Z phoe_krk: yay, recorded my first Lisp video about the interesting and curious things in it.
2016-01-28T21:32:09Z Bicyclidine: attila_lendvai: x86?
2016-01-28T21:32:22Z Bicyclidine: i mean, often.
2016-01-28T21:32:45Z attila_lendvai: yeah, seems like... I'll have to rewrite this test if I want to keep it platform neutral
2016-01-28T21:34:16Z rtra: phoe_krk: can we see it?
2016-01-28T21:34:38Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:35:10Z zygentoma is now known as zygentoma^atw
2016-01-28T21:35:16Z phoe_krk: rtra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30mSt68eNuw
2016-01-28T21:35:25Z phoe_krk: I think you can, though you probably won't understand it
2016-01-28T21:35:56Z Bicyclidine: mordocai: those look like nice features. with a fair amount of work you could probably have them in slime, i think all the necessary introspection of the lisp is already available.
2016-01-28T21:36:14Z mordocai: Bicyclidine: Yeah, it definitely doesn't seem impossible
2016-01-28T21:37:33Z jasom: FYI If anyone is interested in docker containers for sbcl, I find nix to be very good at generating them
2016-01-28T21:38:08Z phoe_krk: jasom: oh, that sounds like a good foundation for a very basic LispOS.
2016-01-28T21:38:30Z phoe_krk: hook up master-SBCL to docker so it can run docked SBCLs as apps.
2016-01-28T21:38:32Z dfcat joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:38:53Z jasom: phoe_krk: http://paste.lisp.org/display/306074
2016-01-28T21:39:38Z jasom: the 3rd image there has everything needed for my various dependencies to load (gcc for the groveller, curl for fetching quicklisp, openssl for cl+ssl, &ct.)
2016-01-28T21:40:01Z jasom: phoe_krk: the intermediate one "nixsbcl" is just busybox+sbcl
2016-01-28T21:40:17Z phoe_krk: I see
2016-01-28T21:41:39Z jasom: oh, I should probably add the locale stuff to "nixsbcl" since otherwise unicode doesn't work with sbcl
2016-01-28T21:44:31Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-28T21:48:44Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T21:48:51Z mrottenkolber: Re: qtools, I did a fresh install and it built successfully, but now I get “Can't resolve foreign symbol "sw_find_class"” when calling “(define-widget main-window (QWidget)
2016-01-28T21:48:51Z mrottenkolber:   ())”
2016-01-28T21:50:34Z prxq: mrottenkolber: that's probably due to either library version mimatch (qt) or due to loading the wrong libraries, or not loading the right ones
2016-01-28T21:50:45Z prxq: mrottenkolber: are you on linux?
2016-01-28T21:52:00Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:52:35Z kenanb: can I explicitly call call-next-method in a :before function, just to change the parameters that are passed to the next method
2016-01-28T21:53:22Z kenanb: and if I can, does that in any way effect method combination except changing passed arguments
2016-01-28T21:53:43Z kenanb: s/function/method
2016-01-28T21:53:46Z Bicyclidine: you can't.
2016-01-28T21:55:00Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T21:55:16Z kenanb: so I should always use an :around method if I want to change parameters that are passed to the method that specializes on the same parameters?
2016-01-28T21:55:24Z yvm quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T21:55:36Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T21:55:47Z Bicyclidine: :around lets you pass in different parameters, yes.
2016-01-28T21:56:18Z mrottenkolber: prxq: yep, Slackware 14.1. maybe my Qt is too old?
2016-01-28T21:58:30Z prxq: could well be. you can scan the qt libs with nm to see if you can find the symbol.
2016-01-28T21:58:50Z prxq: but it could just be that it didn;t load the necessary libs
2016-01-28T22:00:12Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:00:14Z prxq: it is not very trivial to write bindings in a way that they load the right libs on every platform right away.
2016-01-28T22:01:04Z heddwch is now known as Imdead
2016-01-28T22:01:11Z Imdead is now known as heddwch
2016-01-28T22:01:24Z kenanb: Bicyclidine: thanks
2016-01-28T22:03:37Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:03:44Z yvm joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:04:10Z Th30n: So, what's the recommended testing library these days?
2016-01-28T22:05:55Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:05:59Z mrottenkolber: prxq:  Hmm, on my previous (broken) qtools install this step worked, so I am kinde hoping it just failed to load the libs.
2016-01-28T22:06:10Z mordocai: Th30n: The one i've primarily seen is https://github.com/fukamachi/prove
2016-01-28T22:06:28Z mordocai: Th30n: With https://github.com/DalekBaldwin/check-it if you want generative/property based testing too
2016-01-28T22:08:21Z mrottenkolber: prxq: I have the recommended Qt version so...
2016-01-28T22:09:16Z prxq: mrottenkolber: nm to the rescue...
2016-01-28T22:10:04Z Th30n: mordocai: Thanks
2016-01-28T22:10:39Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T22:12:53Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:14:19Z prxq: mrottenkolber: basically, if it loads the lib with the symbol, the error must go away. the problem is finding that lib, and that's what nm is for ("man nm" on the terminal)
2016-01-28T22:16:19Z mrottenkolber: prxq: I would be more interested in how I make it “load a lib”
2016-01-28T22:16:41Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:17:10Z attila_lendvai: luis: ping
2016-01-28T22:17:35Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-28T22:17:36Z prxq: mrottenkolber: qtools probably uses cffi. I don't know the incantation out of the top of my head, but it's just a command with a path to the .so.
2016-01-28T22:18:05Z prxq: it must already have such a command somewhere in the sources
2016-01-28T22:19:38Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T22:22:10Z zaquest quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-28T22:22:18Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-28T22:23:38Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:24:03Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:24:26Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T22:24:56Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-28T22:27:12Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T22:27:20Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:27:59Z learning joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:28:54Z learning: I'm looking for a CL library that can login to a website and run some javascript code on a given page
2016-01-28T22:28:54Z minion: learning, memo from pjb: use tracing-flet and tracing-labels, of course!  com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.utility:tracing-labels  alternatively, use cl-stepper.
2016-01-28T22:29:44Z phoe_krk: learning: define: run some javascript code.
2016-01-28T22:30:34Z learning: there's some javascript code that runs when a link is clicked on the site   <a href="javascript:MarkAsCurrent(2051807);"   i want to emulate that
2016-01-28T22:31:14Z phoe_krk: you'll need a JS virtual machine for that. I don't think there's a JS interpreter written in Lisp.
2016-01-28T22:31:28Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T22:31:47Z White_Flame: there's cl-webkit, which should let you link a browser environment to cl
2016-01-28T22:31:48Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:32:08Z phoe_krk: Oh, yes, and a browser's JS engine along with its DOM.
2016-01-28T22:32:12Z White_Flame: and lispkit, not sure which is more recent/recommended
2016-01-28T22:32:42Z nalik891 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:34:08Z zaquest joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:36:12Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T22:36:19Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:36:19Z learning: ok thank you. seems like it'll just be easier to do it in python (it's a really small app).
2016-01-28T22:37:03Z learning: python will have some tutorial and simple library im sure. didn't realize it was going to be that much more complex than just doing a get request but that makes sense now.
2016-01-28T22:37:26Z phoe_krk: learning: you need a whole JavaScript engine that also has a Document Object Model to work upon.
2016-01-28T22:37:34Z phoe_krk: essentially, you need a web browser to achieve that.
2016-01-28T22:38:18Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:38:33Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:38:52Z learning: yeah the easiest path would be to just write a browser extension im sure
2016-01-28T22:39:00Z Baggers left #lisp
2016-01-28T22:39:04Z learning: but i need a standalone application unfortunately
2016-01-28T22:39:11Z ekinmur joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:39:37Z luis: attila_lendvai: pong
2016-01-28T22:39:58Z attila_lendvai: luis: hi! shall I push -f (lose inline comments), or new PR?
2016-01-28T22:40:19Z attila_lendvai: I don't mind losing them, but I though I won't pull the rug from under you without asking...
2016-01-28T22:40:23Z luis: I think you can push -f and github will still keep the comments.
2016-01-28T22:40:37Z luis: (Older versions of github didn't keep the comments, but now it does.)
2016-01-28T22:40:42Z attila_lendvai: luis: no, they'll be gone. I read an article about it
2016-01-28T22:40:49Z attila_lendvai: oh, hm, ok
2016-01-28T22:40:57Z attila_lendvai: then I push -f the current state
2016-01-28T22:41:03Z luis: Yeah, go for it.
2016-01-28T22:41:15Z attila_lendvai: I still need to come up with a solution for the ppcre dependency
2016-01-28T22:41:31Z ekinmur quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T22:42:07Z attila_lendvai: maybe a flag for :cffi/c2ffi-file, like :assume-regexp T, defaulting to T, and erroring if execution reaches it without ppcre loaded
2016-01-28T22:42:14Z attila_lendvai: don't really like it
2016-01-28T22:42:49Z kephasp quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-28T22:42:52Z luis: Can we have a way of loading c2ffi-generated bindings without loading cffi/c2ffi?
2016-01-28T22:43:41Z attila_lendvai: luis: yeah, I think that can work. I've already changed the code to keep the generated lisp file next to the specs
2016-01-28T22:44:19Z attila_lendvai: the only downside is that fixes to the generator will not automatically result in the regeneration of the checked in lisp file, nor will rmfasl
2016-01-28T22:45:41Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T22:46:48Z nalik891 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T22:47:03Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:49:05Z luis: Hmm, hmm.
2016-01-28T22:49:12Z luis taps his fingers
2016-01-28T22:49:18Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T22:49:44Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-28T22:50:25Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T22:51:08Z attila_lendvai: s/the only/one that I'm aware of/
2016-01-28T22:52:11Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-28T22:52:45Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T22:55:47Z fotdp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T22:56:03Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T22:56:09Z xristos left #lisp
2016-01-28T22:56:35Z luis: We need a decent way to force spec regeneration too, I guess.
2016-01-28T22:58:43Z attila_lendvai: well, generally few people will regenerate the spec files, and an rm *.spec is good enough I think
2016-01-28T22:58:47Z tstbtil joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:00:56Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T23:03:54Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:04:22Z luis: Is it useful to keep the spec files /and/ the generated lisp files?
2016-01-28T23:04:59Z coyo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-28T23:05:23Z attila_lendvai: luis: only when there's a bugfix in the generator, because generating the spec is much more headache (working c2ffi executable and C header files)
2016-01-28T23:05:26Z luis: (Other than for debugging the generato, of course.)
2016-01-28T23:05:55Z attila_lendvai: *and a proper version of LLVM!
2016-01-28T23:06:05Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:07:13Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-28T23:09:48Z attila_lendvai: luis: pushed the current state. and how cool! inline comments indeed remained!
2016-01-28T23:10:17Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-28T23:10:18Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:10:20Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T23:11:56Z attila_lendvai: so, the last outstanding issue I remember is the ppcre question
2016-01-28T23:12:48Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2016-01-28T23:14:18Z attila_lendvai: luis: great feedback, thanks for the code review! I've cleaned up several parts due to your heads up's
2016-01-28T23:15:58Z luis: Well, it was nice reading your code. ;-)
2016-01-28T23:17:33Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:19:34Z luis: attila_lendvai: hmm, can we load cl-ppcre lazily during spec generation?
2016-01-28T23:19:35Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T23:19:41Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:19:53Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-28T23:20:09Z luis: Perhaps using quicklisp, if available.
2016-01-28T23:20:23Z luis: How kosher would that be?
2016-01-28T23:21:17Z Tordek quit (Quit: Changing server)
2016-01-28T23:22:53Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:22:54Z attila_lendvai: luis: this could work: add a new flag to the defsystem file args that marks that the rules assume regex maching. then install a regex hook stub, similar to how libffi is optionally loaded when fsbv is encountered, that loads the ppcre integration. the hook stub is only called when generation happens.
2016-01-28T23:23:46Z attila_lendvai: how kosher? bearable... :) but I don't have any better ideas, so I'll look into this tomorrow.
2016-01-28T23:24:14Z attila_lendvai: maybe once it has taken shape it'll be less ugly than imagined...
2016-01-28T23:24:24Z luis: Personally, always loading cl-ppcre would be an option.
2016-01-28T23:24:29Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-28T23:24:54Z luis: I mean, llvm/c2ffi/headers are much hairier dependencies than cl-ppcre, as you mentioned.
2016-01-28T23:25:56Z zygentoma^atw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-28T23:26:27Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:27:20Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:27:26Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T23:27:38Z attila_lendvai: yeah, I think I'm sold on this: add a flag, default it to T (assume regex rules by default), and let users not depend on cffi/c2ffi+cl-ppcre up until a generation is triggered. then a hook errors with a restart to load ppcre, optionally using quickload if find-symbol finds it.
2016-01-28T23:28:05Z attila_lendvai: once loaded the hook gets setf'd to a quiet one that uses cl-ppcre
2016-01-28T23:28:18Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/)
2016-01-28T23:28:39Z attila_lendvai: people who want to avoid ppcre altogether can set the flag to NIL
2016-01-28T23:29:03Z vhost- quit (Changing host)
2016-01-28T23:29:03Z vhost- joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:30:05Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-28T23:31:22Z luis: If you feel the option to avoid ppcre is important, sure, go for it.
2016-01-28T23:31:42Z luis: I'd just load cl-ppcre unconditionally. :)
2016-01-28T23:32:13Z attila_lendvai: yeah, that makes sense, too... will sleep on it
2016-01-28T23:32:42Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:33:17Z luis: mordocai: I had to use calibre to compress the mobi file so that Amazon Kindle would accept it! Apress has been quite a let down...
2016-01-28T23:33:31Z attila_lendvai notes that cl-ppcre has no dependencies and leans towards just depending on it
2016-01-28T23:33:39Z luis: it = the .mobi version of Common Lisp Recipes
2016-01-28T23:33:54Z luis: attila_lendvai: sleep on it ;)
2016-01-28T23:34:21Z attila_lendvai: yeah, it's time... :)
2016-01-28T23:35:22Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-28T23:35:41Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T23:35:41Z mordocai: luis: ugh. Does it look okay afterward?
2016-01-28T23:36:04Z ep quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-28T23:36:32Z holycow_ is now known as holycow
2016-01-28T23:36:50Z luis: It looks OK on my computer. Amazon is taking a while to deliver it to my Kindle, for some reason.
2016-01-28T23:37:02Z holycow is now known as Guest47228
2016-01-28T23:39:05Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T23:39:12Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:39:49Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:42:12Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T23:42:18Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:42:44Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:43:49Z coyo joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:44:37Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T23:44:56Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:47:00Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T23:47:09Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:49:33Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-28T23:49:59Z tstbtil quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-28T23:50:06Z Guest47228 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-28T23:53:44Z fotdp joined #lisp
2016-01-28T23:56:58Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-28T23:58:54Z malice joined #lisp
2016-01-29T00:00:56Z leflorygo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T00:02:58Z zygentoma^atw joined #lisp
2016-01-29T00:03:15Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-29T00:06:55Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-29T00:08:52Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-29T00:12:11Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T00:16:01Z Guest44245 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T00:18:55Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T00:19:24Z _sjs_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T00:20:56Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T00:24:17Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T00:25:48Z zygentoma^atw quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2016-01-29T00:29:00Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T00:36:46Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T00:38:10Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T00:38:54Z dstatyvka left #lisp
2016-01-29T00:39:15Z X-Scale left #lisp
2016-01-29T00:40:52Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T00:41:28Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T00:43:55Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T00:51:00Z rtra_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T00:53:56Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T01:00:09Z chu quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-29T01:00:39Z cxpp joined #lisp
2016-01-29T01:00:56Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T01:02:33Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-29T01:04:40Z chu quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-29T01:04:45Z leflorygo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-29T01:05:05Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-29T01:06:43Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-29T01:08:29Z azx joined #lisp
2016-01-29T01:08:58Z azx: what is lisp most commonly used for
2016-01-29T01:12:48Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T01:14:35Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T01:14:38Z rtra_ is now known as rtra
2016-01-29T01:15:24Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T01:16:12Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-29T01:17:44Z malice: writing programs, I guess.
2016-01-29T01:18:06Z kenanb: CLHS states that default-initargs is inherited, is it inherited in the sense that if a subclass specifies its own default-initargs option, that completely overrides the default-initargs list, or only the specific keywords that are specified in the default-initargs of subclass are overriden and others are still inherited
2016-01-29T01:18:38Z kenanb: sorry for really long question (and kinda weird sentence)
2016-01-29T01:25:49Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T01:26:11Z azx quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T01:30:44Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T01:31:32Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-29T01:34:34Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T01:42:37Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-29T01:43:10Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T01:46:59Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T01:52:33Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T01:57:19Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-29T01:57:35Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T01:58:54Z AJavaIdiot joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:00:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T02:01:04Z xorox90 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:01:46Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T02:05:26Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T02:05:40Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:08:32Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:12:21Z kenanb left #lisp
2016-01-29T02:12:36Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T02:13:10Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-29T02:23:43Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T02:24:12Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:26:22Z IAmRasputin joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:30:24Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T02:31:14Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:34:04Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T02:34:19Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:34:44Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T02:37:14Z IAmRasputin: So, to test how *features* worked, I wrote a function like (defun has-feature () #+feature t #-feature nil).  At first I thought it wasn't working, because it would evaluate to nil even after I had pushed :feature to *features*.  I had to re-define the function to get it to work and evaluate to t.
2016-01-29T02:37:41Z IAmRasputin: So is the #+ syntax static?  Is it evaluated when the function is written and not when it's called?
2016-01-29T02:37:47Z IAmRasputin: It just seemed strange.
2016-01-29T02:38:05Z loke: IAmRasputin: It is evaluted ruring READ time.
2016-01-29T02:38:52Z loke: Try thid, and you'll hopefully understand:
2016-01-29T02:38:52Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:39:25Z loke: (read-from-string "(a #+feature b #-feature c)")
2016-01-29T02:41:04Z IPmonger quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.2 - http://znc.in)
2016-01-29T02:42:56Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T02:43:32Z IAmRasputin: loke: That's neat.  I figured it was something like that, I just thought it was a bit strange.
2016-01-29T02:44:25Z IPmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:46:13Z loke: Not starnge at all, very useful in fact.
2016-01-29T02:46:37Z loke: Remember you can also evaluate arbitrary forms during READ, using the #. reader macro.
2016-01-29T02:47:06Z loke: try (read-from-string "#.(+ 1 2)")
2016-01-29T02:47:39Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:47:48Z loke: That's why you should always bind *READ-EVAL* to false while reading data you have no control over.
2016-01-29T02:48:58Z Quadresce` is now known as Quadrescence
2016-01-29T02:49:14Z Quadrescence quit (Changing host)
2016-01-29T02:49:14Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:53:22Z IAmRasputin: Woooooah that's super useful.
2016-01-29T02:53:35Z nyef: There's also the fun trick of #.`( ... stuff here ... )
2016-01-29T02:54:21Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:55:49Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-29T02:56:26Z loke: Or this, a string that READ's into a circular list:
2016-01-29T02:56:31Z loke: (read-from-string "#.'#1=(a b c . #1#)")
2016-01-29T02:56:37Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:57:04Z loke: What other languages can do that? :-)
2016-01-29T02:57:20Z Zhivago: Represent circular lists?
2016-01-29T02:57:34Z IAmRasputin: Or read them from strings?
2016-01-29T02:57:42Z loke: No. Have source code strings that are circular lists.
2016-01-29T02:57:44Z loke: Yes.
2016-01-29T02:57:54Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T02:58:02Z IAmRasputin: I've only been learning lisp for like a month.  A lot of it still seems like magic.
2016-01-29T02:58:10Z nyef: This leads to the question: Is there perhaps a good reason to disallow it?
2016-01-29T02:58:17Z Zhivago: I'm not sure that CL permits that either -- doesn't it require proper lists for source code?
2016-01-29T02:58:39Z loke: Zhivago: That's a good question. It's very likely so.
2016-01-29T02:59:57Z loke: I'm looking at the clhs in an attempt fo find the description of this.
2016-01-29T03:00:04Z nyef: With a few exceptions, yes, proper lists required. The exceptions do not allow for circular lists outside of constant values.
2016-01-29T03:00:10Z Bike: the page on macro lambda lists mentions it's sometimes possible for a macro form to be dotted.
2016-01-29T03:00:14Z nyef: Err... literal values, sorry.
2016-01-29T03:00:35Z nyef: That would be the exception that comes to mind, yes. But note that the value in the CDR has to be a symbol.
2016-01-29T03:00:50Z nyef: ... And, IIRC, it's a Scheme compatibility measure.
2016-01-29T03:01:04Z loke: nyef: You sure? That suggests that the following would be illegal, which I don't think it is:
2016-01-29T03:01:05Z Zhivago: Fair payment for lexical scoping. :)
2016-01-29T03:01:07Z loke: (+ . (1 2))
2016-01-29T03:01:20Z Bike: it doesn't say it has to be a symbol.
2016-01-29T03:01:33Z nyef: loke: That's a proper list.
2016-01-29T03:01:42Z Bike: loke: that's just how the reader works, not relevant
2016-01-29T03:01:55Z loke: Bike: Ah, ok. I see what you mean.
2016-01-29T03:02:11Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T03:05:18Z Guest14 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T03:22:33Z AJavaIdiot quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030])
2016-01-29T03:25:11Z w3pm quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-29T03:25:47Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T03:25:49Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-29T03:25:57Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-29T03:25:57Z minion: beach, memo from pjb: you might be interested by my ~/.xmodmap: http://paste.lisp.org/display/306071 the modifier section indicates that I have Shift Lock Control Num_Lock Alt Meta Super Hyper in the order of bits.
2016-01-29T03:25:57Z minion: beach, memo from pjb: the conclusion to be drawn, is that you don't have to use Mod1-Mod5. You can deal with the X11 keysyms directly, and therefore let the user map them to the bits they want. Notably, different window managers DO expect different keysyms on Mod2!
2016-01-29T03:25:57Z minion: beach, memo from pjb: Also, I chosed the order from some older source, unfortunately I don't remember which.
2016-01-29T03:27:37Z IAmRasputin quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-29T03:31:07Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T03:31:24Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, etc.)
2016-01-29T03:37:00Z Guest14 quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-29T03:46:27Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-29T03:47:17Z jeaye joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:02:38Z nyef: Hello beach.
2016-01-29T04:07:57Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T04:10:57Z beach: nyef: Hey.  What are you working on these days?
2016-01-29T04:11:57Z rebcabin joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:12:15Z rebcabin quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-29T04:12:59Z nyef: Right now, the paying-work stuff.
2016-01-29T04:13:16Z beach: Aww! :)
2016-01-29T04:13:35Z beach: Are you self employed?
2016-01-29T04:13:55Z nyef: This weekend, probably Linux kernel hacking again, I got my test case for a particular failure mode down sufficiently to be able to blame mprotect(), so I need to dig into that a bit more.
2016-01-29T04:14:21Z beach: I am impressed.
2016-01-29T04:15:12Z nyef: Essentially, yes. But my primary client has stupid "we got this file late afternoon, and can't run it through the new data loader, so you need to do it, preferably tonight" things, followed by "oops, they sent us the wrong file, here's the right one".
2016-01-29T04:15:30Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:15:44Z beach: Heh!
2016-01-29T04:16:35Z wheelsucker quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T04:16:41Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:17:23Z scottj left #lisp
2016-01-29T04:19:47Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-29T04:20:47Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:24:55Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T04:25:47Z Tiferet joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:26:02Z Tiferet: Hello
2016-01-29T04:26:46Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T04:27:13Z Tiferet: Anyone here worked through SICP?
2016-01-29T04:29:47Z je4i: what is your question?
2016-01-29T04:30:41Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:32:04Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T04:32:33Z psy quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-29T04:32:35Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T04:36:20Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:36:22Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-29T04:39:06Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T04:39:15Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T04:41:00Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T04:42:34Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:45:56Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T04:47:40Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:50:45Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-29T04:53:00Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T04:54:05Z yvm quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T04:58:49Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T05:00:54Z Tiferet: je4i: I'm having difficulty understanding recursion - processes referring to themselves
2016-01-29T05:01:17Z Tiferet: je4i: I'm working on exercises 1.6 onwards
2016-01-29T05:01:38Z beach: minion: memo for jackdaniel: You may have to use :mcclim-truetype rather than just :mcclim if you want output beyond ASCII.
2016-01-29T05:01:38Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell jackdaniel when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-29T05:02:41Z Tiferet: je4i: For example, in 1.10 (Ackermanns function) part of the condition statement (the else section) recalls ackermanns function
2016-01-29T05:03:05Z Tiferet: je4i: I just can't make sense of how this works and what the end result is meant to be
2016-01-29T05:03:22Z beach: Tiferet: You can either trust that recursion works as expected, or you can convince yourself by using the operational semantics of your implementation, i.e., draw the stack and see how it works.  But at some point, you need to forget about the operational semantics, and just trust that it works.
2016-01-29T05:03:22Z scholzy joined #lisp
2016-01-29T05:03:53Z Bike: shouldn't you start with addition or something?
2016-01-29T05:04:14Z Bike: 4 + 7 = 1 + (3 + 7), bla bla bla, end up with 1 + 1 + 1 + ..., there's a number.
2016-01-29T05:05:00Z beach: Yeah, the Ackermann function is a bit heavy duty for a beginner.
2016-01-29T05:05:04Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T05:05:20Z Tiferet: beach: well, SICP is "for beginners"
2016-01-29T05:05:21Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T05:05:27Z Tiferet: beach: "no programming experience required"
2016-01-29T05:05:48Z Tiferet: beach: I guess my math weakness is affecting my ability to progress
2016-01-29T05:06:02Z beach: Perhaps, but then "sufficiently knowledgeable to be accepted at MIT" might be a requirement.
2016-01-29T05:06:09Z Bike: i don't remember it introducing recursion that way. well, it doesn't much matter.
2016-01-29T05:06:16Z Bike: Okay, so Ackermann. How is it defined?
2016-01-29T05:06:27Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2016-01-29T05:06:27Z beach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_function
2016-01-29T05:07:00Z Bike: that was me asking tiferet all education like, i know about it already :p
2016-01-29T05:07:11Z beach: Sorry. :(
2016-01-29T05:07:48Z Tiferet: Bike: that's kind of my root issue
2016-01-29T05:08:10Z beach: Tiferet: The Ackermann function is particularly tricky, because the second argument actually gets bigger in recursive calls, so it is not obvious that it terminates.
2016-01-29T05:08:14Z Tiferet: Bike: I can make sense of the conditions, consequents and alternatives UP TO the function calling itself again
2016-01-29T05:08:31Z Bike: Forget "calls", just think about mathematics for a second.
2016-01-29T05:08:39Z Tiferet: beach: exactly! I can't see when and how it terminates
2016-01-29T05:08:51Z Tiferet: Bike: Okay...
2016-01-29T05:09:37Z Bike: If you have the expression "4 + 7", i imagine you have little problem believing that it's equivalent to the expression "1 + 3 + 7".
2016-01-29T05:09:56Z beach: Tiferet: To prove that, or to convince yourself of that, you need to invent a kind of metric that you can show gets smaller for each recursive call.  That kind of stuff is not obvious at all.  If you don't understand recursion at all, i.e., even something like factorial, I would start with something where the metric is more obvious.
2016-01-29T05:10:38Z Tiferet: Bike: The else statement in this case (for reference: https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-11.html#%_sec_1.2.1) means, "repeat the entire process again but subtract 1 from x and run the function on that new value and subtract 1 from y"
2016-01-29T05:10:54Z Bike: No, don't think about processes. Don't think about time.
2016-01-29T05:11:19Z Tiferet: beach: I guess that's the root cause, in reality. I don't understand recursion at all.
2016-01-29T05:11:20Z Bike: When you have "4 + 7" and change it into "1 + 3 + 7" you don't think that you're "running addition twice" or something. You just have a longer expression, that's all.
2016-01-29T05:11:41Z Tiferet: Bike: right. the substition model.
2016-01-29T05:11:43Z beach: Tiferet: Listen to Bike then.  Do something much simpler.
2016-01-29T05:12:05Z Tiferet: beach: "something" ?
2016-01-29T05:12:14Z Bike: So for ackermann, if you have A(1,1), you look through the r ules, and find that A(1,1) = ...
2016-01-29T05:12:20Z Bike: you can tell me what that "..." is, right?
2016-01-29T05:12:34Z beach: Tiferet: Addition, factorial, exponentiation, list length, something like that.
2016-01-29T05:12:46Z Tiferet: Bike: I can... if I plug it into my REPL
2016-01-29T05:12:59Z Bike: No, no, I don't want a number. I want you to apply the substitution rule exactly one time.
2016-01-29T05:13:08Z Tiferet: Bike: let me try
2016-01-29T05:13:34Z Tiferet: Bike: 2
2016-01-29T05:13:45Z Bike: That's a number.
2016-01-29T05:14:07Z Bike: A(1,1) = A(0, A(1, 0)) by the third rule on Wikipedia. Right?
2016-01-29T05:14:32Z Tiferet: Bike: Sorry, I wasn't referring to wikipedia
2016-01-29T05:14:33Z jocuman quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T05:14:44Z Tiferet: Bike: I was referring to the defintion of the function in the book
2016-01-29T05:14:55Z Bike: well, it's the same with that.
2016-01-29T05:15:00Z Tiferet: Bike: and one of the conditions is "print two if y = 1"
2016-01-29T05:15:07Z Bike: ...
2016-01-29T05:15:12Z Bike: you're right. okay.
2016-01-29T05:15:30Z Bike: This uses a different but equivalent definition. Sorry, I should have checked.
2016-01-29T05:15:56Z Bike: Okay then, using SICP's, what is (A 1 2)?
2016-01-29T05:16:57Z Bike: also, it looks like it does go through factorials and stuff earlier, so you probably should get those straight in your head before moving to exercises, eh?
2016-01-29T05:17:07Z Tiferet: bike: (A 0 1)
2016-01-29T05:17:51Z Bike: One substitution. So (A 0 (A 1 1)).
2016-01-29T05:18:24Z Bike: Right? In the else clause.
2016-01-29T05:18:41Z Tiferet: Bike: ...yes, you're right
2016-01-29T05:18:56Z Tiferet: Bike: two recursive calls
2016-01-29T05:19:07Z Bike: two opportunities for substitution.
2016-01-29T05:19:16Z Tiferet: Bike: right
2016-01-29T05:19:43Z Bike: We know that (A 0 anything) = (* 2 anything), and we know that (A anything 1) = 2. So we can end up with either (* 2 (A 1 1)) or (A 0 2), right?
2016-01-29T05:19:45Z Tiferet: Bike: so - somehow, some way - the REPL knows that it needs to re-run the same process using the new values set
2016-01-29T05:19:49Z xrash quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T05:19:56Z Bike: why do you keep talking about REPLs and processes.
2016-01-29T05:20:08Z Tiferet: Bike: Because I'm ignorant
2016-01-29T05:20:10Z Tiferet: Bike: sorry.
2016-01-29T05:20:20Z Tiferet: Bike: This is my first attempt at learning programming
2016-01-29T05:20:26Z Bike: don't apologize, it's not like i'm offended. I'm just trying to understand what you're thinking.
2016-01-29T05:20:36Z Bike: nothing i've done isn't anything you couldn't do on paper. or just thinking about it. that's why i'm walking through it at length.
2016-01-29T05:21:17Z Tiferet: Bike: I understand what you're saying. This process translates to a mathematical function and the rules are the same in either case.
2016-01-29T05:21:36Z Tiferet: Bike: Unfortunately, my math is very, very weak.
2016-01-29T05:22:18Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T05:22:24Z Tiferet: Thanks Bike and Beach I have to take care of something urgent.
2016-01-29T05:22:27Z Bike: This is very basic math, though. In the trip from (A 1 2) => (A 0 (A 1 1)) => (A 0 2) we didn't even do any addition or multiplication.
2016-01-29T05:22:28Z Tiferet quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-29T05:22:30Z Bike: okay, well, good luck.
2016-01-29T05:22:42Z je4i: thi book might help: https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/little-schemer
2016-01-29T05:22:56Z je4i: *this
2016-01-29T05:23:26Z beach: Bike: For some people, the operational semantics might help in order to be convinced that things "just work".  I myself am like that.
2016-01-29T05:23:51Z Bike: Do rewrite rules count as operational semantics?
2016-01-29T05:24:08Z beach: Only if your programming system is based on rewriting. :)
2016-01-29T05:24:51Z Bike: I guess I could have kept going with, essentially, general scheme semantics/recursion working by rewrites, and * and so on being arithmetic.
2016-01-29T05:25:02Z Bike: which is... sort of how it works, so that should be fine
2016-01-29T05:25:10Z ramky joined #lisp
2016-01-29T05:25:57Z beach: People are different in what they are willing to accept.  I myself was not convinced until I knew about the stack and local variables.  At the time I learned about recursion, I mean.
2016-01-29T05:26:37Z Bike: for me personally i first heard about "the stack" from a bad C++ book, so continuing in that direction probably would have been no good
2016-01-29T05:26:45Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T05:27:29Z beach: Like I said, my experience is that it is very different from one person to the other what explanation works.
2016-01-29T05:27:55Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T05:28:07Z Bike: of course. just thought term rewriting might be easier than trying to work through some previous concept of "process"
2016-01-29T05:29:00Z beach: I know what you are saying.  I also know that when I learned about this stuff, I would not have accepted rewriting as an explanation, unless I also knew that the programming language implementation worked that way.
2016-01-29T05:29:46Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-29T05:30:08Z Bike: the itnerpreters in SICP are close enough, i think
2016-01-29T05:31:34Z beach: Well, I guess the proof is in the pudding.  If the person accept the explanation, it is close enough.  I know I would not have accepted it at the time.
2016-01-29T05:31:54Z Bike: mm
2016-01-29T05:32:05Z beach: But I came from engineering rather than math, so maybe that's why.
2016-01-29T05:36:09Z beach: Does what I am saying make sense?
2016-01-29T05:36:21Z beach: ... about individual differences?
2016-01-29T05:36:28Z Bike: oh, of course.
2016-01-29T05:38:00Z learning quit
2016-01-29T05:42:43Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-29T05:44:55Z drmeister: Hey folks.
2016-01-29T05:45:46Z drmeister: I've got clasp/slime serving up lambda lists for every kind of function including generic functions.
2016-01-29T05:46:08Z arrsim quit (Quit: bye)
2016-01-29T05:46:10Z Zhivago: Hurrah.
2016-01-29T05:46:36Z fotdp quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-29T05:50:16Z mbuf joined #lisp
2016-01-29T05:51:01Z drmeister: A question about tab-completion in slime.  If I know the name of the function but I haven't added the package prefix - tab completion in slime can't do anything with it - right?  I have to at least start with package and part of the symbol name for tab completion to work.
2016-01-29T05:51:59Z drmeister: Say I have a function geom:make-m4
2016-01-29T05:52:23Z drmeister: I have to type (geom:make-<tab>  to get geom:make-m4 as one of the tab completions.
2016-01-29T05:52:46Z drmeister: If I just type (make-<tab> I don't see geom:make-m4 as an option.
2016-01-29T05:53:03Z rtra joined #lisp
2016-01-29T05:53:35Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-29T05:54:55Z je4i: (defpackage my-package (import-from #:geom #:make-m4)) helps
2016-01-29T05:55:07Z Bike: that's how it works, yep yep
2016-01-29T05:59:33Z drmeister: Thank you - I was checking if I was doing something wrong.
2016-01-29T06:01:29Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:05:11Z beach: Hello drmeister.
2016-01-29T06:05:32Z drmeister: Hi beach
2016-01-29T06:05:45Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T06:07:11Z loke_: drmeister: Yes, you are correct about slime completion
2016-01-29T06:07:44Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:07:56Z drmeister: I'm getting used to prefixing every symbol with its package.
2016-01-29T06:08:16Z beach: EVERY symbol?
2016-01-29T06:08:37Z beach: (common-lisp:if (common-lisp:> local-package:x 0) ...)?
2016-01-29T06:11:06Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T06:12:20Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:12:41Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:18:27Z drmeister: No, not CL symbols - the ones I define I do however.
2016-01-29T06:18:46Z beach: And presumably not the ones in the local package either, right?
2016-01-29T06:18:51Z drmeister: I find myself changing package names and it's a PITA to move packages if I don't have package prefixes.
2016-01-29T06:19:18Z drmeister: No, not the ones in local packages.
2016-01-29T06:20:09Z drmeister: But if I treat the package like part of the name and later I change the package that the symbol belongs to, it's easy to rename the package:symbol
2016-01-29T06:20:36Z drmeister: I'm off to bed, I'm starting to nod off.
2016-01-29T06:20:47Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-29T06:20:56Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:21:57Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:22:03Z azx joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:22:40Z vsync quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T06:23:02Z vsync joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:23:51Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:29:05Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T06:29:16Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T06:33:12Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T06:34:42Z skeledrew joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:34:55Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:39:38Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:41:13Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:42:54Z arrsim joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:45:30Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T06:47:13Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:47:57Z jackdaniel: good morning
2016-01-29T06:47:57Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:48:15Z jackdaniel: beach: thanks for the hint. Have you seen my input-stream-p/output-stream-p question?
2016-01-29T06:49:23Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T06:49:40Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-29T06:52:53Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:53:30Z beach: I saw it, yes, but I haven't given it enough thought yet.
2016-01-29T06:53:33Z beach: Is it urgent?
2016-01-29T06:54:00Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:54:00Z loke_: drmeister: So bascially, you never use :USE? That would be the same I do,
2016-01-29T06:54:19Z yvm joined #lisp
2016-01-29T06:54:34Z beach: jackdaniel: I feel I need to take care of this CLX backend while it is fresh in my mind.
2016-01-29T06:54:53Z jackdaniel: ok
2016-01-29T06:55:19Z jackdaniel: it's not urgent
2016-01-29T06:55:26Z beach: Good.
2016-01-29T06:55:55Z jackdaniel: apparently I'm one of these impatient people who ask a few hours after asking a question: "have you read that, have you read that?" ;-)
2016-01-29T06:56:12Z contrapunctus: o/
2016-01-29T06:56:27Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T06:56:30Z beach: jackdaniel: I can see why you do that.  I certainly need to be reminded regularly.
2016-01-29T06:56:31Z jackdaniel: hi
2016-01-29T06:56:36Z beach: Hello contrapunctus.
2016-01-29T06:56:44Z contrapunctus: hi jackdaniel , beach
2016-01-29T06:57:31Z contrapunctus: Say...why is loading an ASD file directly bad? The other alternative I understand is to eval "(asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :system-name)", which sounds like the same thing.
2016-01-29T06:58:56Z jackdaniel: is it bad though?
2016-01-29T06:59:15Z beach: contrapunctus: You need to ask Xach.
2016-01-29T06:59:15Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T06:59:22Z contrapunctus: hm
2016-01-29T06:59:37Z contrapunctus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T07:00:00Z jackdaniel: maybe he meant that these files should be loaded by quicklisp from local-projects directory? so it's not asdf limitation, but quicklisp's?
2016-01-29T07:00:08Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:03:12Z Bike: because asdf uses something other than load to load system files.
2016-01-29T07:03:14Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-29T07:03:20Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T07:04:13Z bolichep quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T07:04:30Z beach: contrapunctus: They are not the same thing.  Loading the ASDF file does not build the system.
2016-01-29T07:05:13Z contrapunctus: I see...
2016-01-29T07:05:26Z beach: contrapunctus: And for building the system, the ASDF file either needs to be loaded already, or ASDF must be able to find it according to its rules, an load it first.
2016-01-29T07:05:42Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T07:06:21Z beach: Bike: Is that a true fact, or a possible explanation?
2016-01-29T07:06:37Z contrapunctus: and if one has (asdf:load-system :my-system) at the end of the ASD file?
2016-01-29T07:06:53Z Bike: it was a true fact when i looked into it some time ago. asdf is such a fucking maze that it'll take me a bit to remember/verify.
2016-01-29T07:07:07Z Bike: if nothing else it might bind various variables.
2016-01-29T07:07:09Z beach: Bike: No need.  I believe you.
2016-01-29T07:08:07Z beach: contrapunctus: What is it that you are trying to do?
2016-01-29T07:10:07Z contrapunctus: beach: trying to understand what the simplest canonical way to use ASDF is.
2016-01-29T07:11:11Z beach: contrapunctus: Put a symbolic link in the directory I told you about.  Then you never have to think about it ever again.  Just start your Common Lisp system and call (asdf:load-system ...).
2016-01-29T07:12:26Z jasom: contrapunctus: or alternatively put all of your projects in ~/common-lisp and call (asdf:load-system ...)
2016-01-29T07:12:47Z Bike: ok, load-asd calls load*, which muffles a bunch of conditions and does whatever nonsense to make it work on Lazy Jimbob's Common Lisp, but uses load essentially.
2016-01-29T07:12:49Z beach: Yes, yes.  One of the rules the manual mentions.
2016-01-29T07:13:10Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-29T07:13:12Z cxpp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T07:13:41Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-29T07:14:01Z beach: contrapunctus: I assume you are not creating new ASDF systems at a higher rate than you are building them, right?
2016-01-29T07:14:34Z beach: Time to get to work!
2016-01-29T07:14:37Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-29T07:14:46Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T07:19:34Z jdtest joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:20:29Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:21:24Z contrapunctus: I added the directory with my projects with (:tree "...") (in ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/)
2016-01-29T07:23:18Z contrapunctus: running ecl -shell "(asdf:load-system :my-system)" I get - http://ix.io/nZo
2016-01-29T07:23:54Z contrapunctus: oh wait, crap >_>
2016-01-29T07:24:21Z contrapunctus: should be -eval, silly me.
2016-01-29T07:25:37Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:25:46Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-29T07:26:40Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:27:00Z jackdaniel: contrapunctus: hint, if something is accessible via asdf it's enough to (require 'system-name) ; and if you want to add quicklisp to fresh system, you may do (require 'ecl-quicklisp)
2016-01-29T07:27:53Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:30:49Z contrapunctus: jackdaniel: nice, thanks :)
2016-01-29T07:30:57Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:31:10Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:31:28Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T07:31:35Z jackdaniel: but don't add it to the application, it's not portable
2016-01-29T07:31:44Z jackdaniel: it's just for repl conveniance
2016-01-29T07:31:44Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-29T07:34:34Z contrapunctus: I see
2016-01-29T07:35:05Z contrapunctus: now to use Roswell to install a new SBCL and see if the issue is just with the Debian Testing version.
2016-01-29T07:36:06Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:36:22Z yvm quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T07:36:30Z lnostdal quit (Quit: Invest and trade anonymously: https://goo.gl/Hw81yy)
2016-01-29T07:37:06Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T07:37:25Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:39:15Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:46:17Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:46:23Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:50:30Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T07:52:04Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-29T07:52:29Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:52:31Z holycow_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:53:17Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T07:54:18Z yvm joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:54:49Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:56:25Z l04m33 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-29T07:58:17Z flambard joined #lisp
2016-01-29T07:58:57Z Munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:01:08Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:02:14Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:02:34Z dreamaddict joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:04:14Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:06:39Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:06:50Z ggole quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T08:07:09Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:07:41Z dreamaddict: would any of you good sirs kindly recommend some good libraries for playing MP3 files with Lisp?
2016-01-29T08:08:19Z antoszka: dreamaddict: mixalot, afair
2016-01-29T08:08:54Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:09:12Z loke_: There is also mpg123-ffi
2016-01-29T08:10:01Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:10:33Z DeadTrickster: how many multiple values sbcl can send through registers?
2016-01-29T08:10:46Z loke_: Seems like mixalot also calls into mpg123
2016-01-29T08:10:56Z loke_: DeadTrickster: Several
2016-01-29T08:11:04Z loke_: Something like 7 IIRC
2016-01-29T08:11:14Z loke_: (you talking about retyurn values?)
2016-01-29T08:11:20Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:11:23Z DeadTrickster: yeah I feel the same but curious of exact numbers
2016-01-29T08:11:32Z DeadTrickster: yes, return values
2016-01-29T08:11:35Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:12:07Z loke_: Hmm. 3, it seems
2016-01-29T08:12:12Z DeadTrickster: looks like the job for disassemble
2016-01-29T08:12:27Z loke_: They seem to be returned in EDX, EDX, ESI and then the stack
2016-01-29T08:12:33Z loke_: That's whta I just did
2016-01-29T08:12:59Z loke_: ECX contains the number of return values
2016-01-29T08:13:45Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-29T08:15:07Z Bike: http://sbcl.org/sbcl-internals/Full-Calls.html#Full-Calls though it can be outdated.
2016-01-29T08:16:33Z DeadTrickster: well that looks like calling convention docs, if this is actually relevant than multiple value bind must be implemented as lambda call, right?
2016-01-29T08:16:41Z loke_: Basically, the carry flag is used to indicate whether there are multiple values or not. If it's set, then the number of values can be found in ECX. The arguments are passed in EDX, EDI and ESI for the first 3 values. The remaining ones go on the stack.
2016-01-29T08:18:02Z Bike: DeadTrickster: usually (and definitely on sbcl) m-v-b expands to m-v-c, yeah.
2016-01-29T08:18:04Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:18:05Z loke_: MVB is implemented as a macro around MULTIPLE-VALUE-CALL indeed
2016-01-29T08:18:37Z Bike: the next page linked there talks about returns.
2016-01-29T08:20:04Z DeadTrickster: loke_, hows your potato grows?
2016-01-29T08:20:31Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:20:31Z loke_: DeadTrickster: Well, I did post a new blog on the services yesterday. I presume you saw that?
2016-01-29T08:20:44Z DeadTrickster: ha not really
2016-01-29T08:20:56Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:20:59Z loke_: DeadTrickster: I mentioned it on the channel. You didn't get a notification email about it?
2016-01-29T08:21:03Z loke_: (if not, there is something broken)
2016-01-29T08:21:05Z DeadTrickster: nope
2016-01-29T08:21:15Z DeadTrickster: maybe spam let me check
2016-01-29T08:21:46Z loke_: Well, Android notifications works now, so I get a message on my phone is someone mentions me.
2016-01-29T08:22:25Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:22:27Z DeadTrickster: no sadly nothing except bunch of wake whatsapp notifications
2016-01-29T08:22:35Z loke_: That's weird indeed.
2016-01-29T08:22:39Z DeadTrickster: it's funny since I don't event use it
2016-01-29T08:22:51Z loke_: Anyway, here's the post: http://blog.potato.network/post/138214960664/potato-services
2016-01-29T08:22:58Z loke_: Please let me know if it's helpful in any way
2016-01-29T08:23:00Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:23:42Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:23:50Z DeadTrickster: yea right now I'm wiring my home grown emails server to cms
2016-01-29T08:24:02Z DeadTrickster: looks like exactly what you've done
2016-01-29T08:24:12Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:24:13Z loke_: DeadTrickster: What?
2016-01-29T08:24:25Z DeadTrickster: Email updates server
2016-01-29T08:24:51Z DeadTrickster: btw little typo there - " Each instance will onyl..."
2016-01-29T08:28:32Z loke_: OK, I'll fix the typos :-)
2016-01-29T08:28:53Z DeadTrickster: and you are using hunchensocket
2016-01-29T08:28:58Z DeadTrickster: that's strange
2016-01-29T08:29:45Z DeadTrickster: or better: what you feel about it?
2016-01-29T08:30:22Z loke_: What do you mean strange?
2016-01-29T08:31:15Z dreamaddict: hey...I didn't install asdf specifically, just quicklisp...so what does quicklisp do with the asdf central registry?  (mixalot isn't supported by quicklisp apparently...?)
2016-01-29T08:31:18Z dreamaddict: or is it?
2016-01-29T08:31:29Z DeadTrickster: websockets are async but hunchentoot is fossil in that aspect
2016-01-29T08:32:05Z DeadTrickster: dreamaddict, it installs hook
2016-01-29T08:32:15Z dreamaddict: hook...?
2016-01-29T08:32:44Z DeadTrickster: and sets *central-registry* of course
2016-01-29T08:32:51Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:32:51Z DeadTrickster: asdf:*central-registry*
2016-01-29T08:33:23Z dreamaddict: ah
2016-01-29T08:33:39Z loke_: DeadTrickster: Well, a few thousand threads are not a problem, which is the limit at which I've tested a single node.
2016-01-29T08:33:55Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:33:59Z loke_: I'm pretty sure I'll run into other problems before the number of threads become a problem.
2016-01-29T08:34:24Z loke_: And if it does, then rewriting the ws-server to use a different websocket backend can be done in a few hours.
2016-01-29T08:35:15Z DeadTrickster: ok I got ya
2016-01-29T08:36:09Z loke_: DeadTrickster: So yes, I did give it some thought already :-)
2016-01-29T08:36:44Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:36:50Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:37:08Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:37:36Z contrapunctus quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:38:11Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-29T08:39:24Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:39:40Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:39:58Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:40:10Z loke_: DeadTrickster: Was that the level of information that you wanted, or do you need a deepdive into some subject?
2016-01-29T08:41:56Z jdtest quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:42:20Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:43:02Z dreamaddict: ok so, quicklisp gave me a quicklisp directory as the *central-registry*...so if I put a folder containing the source code into that *central-registry* directory, it should be seen, correct?
2016-01-29T08:43:52Z DeadTrickster: why not to use local-projects?
2016-01-29T08:44:35Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:44:35Z dreamaddict: because...I have no idea how this works exactly?  I have a folder full of code files that I want to include in my own file, if I put the folder in there I can load mixalot just by referring to it as 'mixalot?
2016-01-29T08:44:51Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:45:53Z loke_: dreamaddict: Mixalot is available on QL. You don't have to do anything but to load the system
2016-01-29T08:45:58Z loke_: (ql:quickload "mixalot")
2016-01-29T08:45:59Z dreamaddict: oh it is
2016-01-29T08:46:02Z dreamaddict: nice.
2016-01-29T08:46:12Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T08:47:02Z contrapunctus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:47:26Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:47:39Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-29T08:48:25Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-29T08:58:10Z prohobo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:02:36Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:04:53Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:05:08Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T09:09:15Z killmaster quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T09:13:10Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:16:53Z splittist is finding listening to phoe_krk's presentation strangely relaxing.
2016-01-29T09:17:44Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:18:02Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:18:05Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:18:58Z killmaster joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:22:50Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:23:36Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-29T09:26:27Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T09:26:41Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:30:41Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T09:36:41Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:39:52Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:40:38Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:45:17Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T09:45:32Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:50:15Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:50:18Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-29T09:51:14Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T09:56:00Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:02:13Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:02:55Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:03:00Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T10:03:10Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:04:39Z moore33: I just came across the first thing in Clojure (which I don't really know at all) that seems like a good idea: data structures -- like vectors -- are functions that take indices as arguments. So, in this Lisp-1, you write (foo 1 2) instead of (aref foo 1 2).
2016-01-29T10:05:05Z prohobo quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2016-01-29T10:08:07Z jdtest joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:12:37Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:13:56Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:16:54Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T10:17:01Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:17:53Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T10:19:50Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T10:21:04Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:23:10Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T10:23:16Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:23:48Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:24:18Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:24:54Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:24:55Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:25:07Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:25:12Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:28:21Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:29:52Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:30:02Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:33:31Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:35:36Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T10:35:42Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:35:56Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:37:56Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-29T10:40:53Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-29T10:40:54Z u0_a114`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T10:41:00Z u0_a114`` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:41:23Z u0_a114`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:42:42Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:44:15Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:45:28Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T10:45:41Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:46:59Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:47:37Z sjl: moore33: yeah, it's pretty nice.  stuff like (map some-hashmap [:key1 :key2 :k3y3 ...]) just works
2016-01-29T10:47:37Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:48:05Z sjl: basically "data structures are relations from their keys to values (or bools for sets"
2016-01-29T10:48:06Z durm joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:48:43Z william3 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T10:49:35Z moore33: sjl: It also makes me rethink a bit my ingrained prejudice against Lisp-1.
2016-01-29T10:49:58Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:50:15Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T10:50:23Z sjl: yeah
2016-01-29T10:51:34Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:51:35Z Whymind quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T10:51:48Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T10:51:53Z Whymind joined #lisp
2016-01-29T10:52:26Z easye quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T10:57:34Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-29T10:57:37Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:00:09Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-29T11:00:29Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T11:00:59Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:02:09Z william3_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:06:24Z william3_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T11:06:25Z bpanthi joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:06:34Z azx quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T11:07:21Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:08:01Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T11:09:47Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:11:28Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:11:39Z varjag: moore33: this was originally a feature in graham's Arc
2016-01-29T11:12:27Z moore33: varjag: Interesting. I pretty much ignored Arc :)
2016-01-29T11:12:53Z varjag: no wonder, everyone did!
2016-01-29T11:13:31Z varjag: i wrote some toy program in it to get the gist
2016-01-29T11:13:42Z varjag: figured i still like cl better
2016-01-29T11:13:51Z moore33: Does Clojure draw much from Arc?
2016-01-29T11:13:57Z varjag: no idea
2016-01-29T11:14:10Z varjag: i just remember that feature
2016-01-29T11:14:19Z varjag: and don't have any experience with clojure
2016-01-29T11:14:51Z splittist: (Greatest meme ever, in its day http://jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~csr21/lolpg.jpg )
2016-01-29T11:14:59Z varjag: i'm allergic to jvm i think
2016-01-29T11:15:07Z moore33: The thing that keeps me coming back to CL is CLOS. I haven't seen anything as compelling in other languages, though Julia's multiple dispatch is interesting.
2016-01-29T11:15:23Z easye joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:15:51Z varjag: splittist: mean :p
2016-01-29T11:16:34Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:17:47Z loke_: moore33: CLOSE is pretty awesome indeed.
2016-01-29T11:17:50Z loke_: CLOS
2016-01-29T11:18:06Z loke_: But SBCL is a hellofalot better than Clojure
2016-01-29T11:19:27Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-29T11:19:31Z moore33: CCL isn't bad either :)
2016-01-29T11:21:01Z moore33: Tho' I use SBCL more these days.
2016-01-29T11:23:23Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T11:26:13Z dreamaddict: ok this seems a bit strange (Emacs SLIME)...I write some defuns and defparameters in a file, followed by a function that uses those defuns to evaluate to...something
2016-01-29T11:26:33Z dreamaddict: it doesn't evaluate in the file if I compile the file, but if I type it in the REPL, it works
2016-01-29T11:26:50Z dreamaddict: and back when I was just using vim to edit the file, and then using (load) in the REPL...it would work
2016-01-29T11:27:07Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:27:11Z dreamaddict: now it does not...I guess I don't quite understand what emacs/SLIME is doing when I compile the file (with C-c C-k)
2016-01-29T11:27:20Z varjag: i use mostly ccl and i don't even own a mac
2016-01-29T11:30:20Z dreamaddict: http://paste.lisp.org/display/306107
2016-01-29T11:30:44Z dreamaddict: there's the code...the last expression won't evaluate when I compile the file, but it will if I type it in the REPL
2016-01-29T11:31:08Z dreamaddict: and when I wasn't using SLIME, and just use (load) in the REPL, an expression like that would evaluate correctly
2016-01-29T11:31:16Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:31:40Z moore33: dreamaddict: You mean "signals an error," or "isn't evaluated?"
2016-01-29T11:31:59Z dreamaddict: it signals an error that the function (mixer-add-streamer) doesn't exist
2016-01-29T11:32:10Z dreamaddict: the REPL will evaluate it correctly
2016-01-29T11:32:44Z dreamaddict: ok it works now and I don't know why, it was not working before
2016-01-29T11:32:45Z White_Flame: well, mixer-add-streamer isn't defined in that file.  If you're debugging it being defined or not, it has more to do with that other file
2016-01-29T11:32:47Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:32:56Z dreamaddict: it's part of mixalot
2016-01-29T11:33:52Z moore33: dreamaddict: Your quickload isn't happening when you compile the file. It's a function call.
2016-01-29T11:34:52Z dreamaddict: yes...I just added two small expressions like (+ 2 3), went C-c C-k, and they did not evaluate...however the mixer-add-streamer expression now evaluates every time
2016-01-29T11:34:53Z moore33: If you must, :), you need to wrap (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :evaluate) ... ) around it.
2016-01-29T11:35:31Z moore33: dreamaddict: I suspect you need mixalot loaded when you compile...
2016-01-29T11:36:12Z White_Flame: does it say the function doesn't exist, or that the symbol/package doesn't exist?
2016-01-29T11:36:30Z dreamaddict: no it's strange...if mixalot were not loaded it would signal an error in the defun, or the defparameter expression and it did not, only in the final expression
2016-01-29T11:36:35Z dreamaddict: it says the symbol/package does not exist
2016-01-29T11:36:53Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T11:36:55Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:36:57Z dreamaddict: however, now when I compile, that statement works, ever since I typed it by hand into the REPL and it evaluated correctly
2016-01-29T11:37:05Z moore33: bbl
2016-01-29T11:37:09Z White_Flame: restart your repl and try again
2016-01-29T11:37:15Z dreamaddict: it evaluates now when I compile...and then I added some code and went to compile, and it does not evaluate
2016-01-29T11:37:35Z dreamaddict: ok quick, how do I restart the repl, still new at SLIME here
2016-01-29T11:37:49Z White_Flame: it's always good to flush everything out and ensure that your loading mechanism works, instead of leaving hand-run partial executions' modifications to your state intact
2016-01-29T11:38:13Z White_Flame: M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp
2016-01-29T11:38:26Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:39:29Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:39:47Z dreamaddict: well...I shut down emacs entirely and restarted, did M-x slime (works), then opened the text file with the code
2016-01-29T11:40:04Z dreamaddict: went C-c C-k, it says Package MIXALOT does not exist
2016-01-29T11:40:06Z White_Flame: that'll certainly restart your lisp...
2016-01-29T11:40:13Z White_Flame: right
2016-01-29T11:40:26Z White_Flame: when it compiles it, it'll _compile_ the call to ql:quickload, then go on to compile other things
2016-01-29T11:40:40Z dreamaddict: oookkkk
2016-01-29T11:40:44Z White_Flame: you need to add the eval-when from above around your quickload call
2016-01-29T11:40:58Z dreamaddict: hmmm...(load) evaluates each line in order, it seems
2016-01-29T11:41:02Z dreamaddict: and this does not
2016-01-29T11:41:22Z dreamaddict: using load on a file like this would ordinarily be no problem, since the quickload call would be evaluated
2016-01-29T11:41:30Z White_Flame: correct, that does a separate compile first, then loads the compiled binary version
2016-01-29T11:41:45Z White_Flame: load evaluates the text of the file straight
2016-01-29T11:42:20Z dreamaddict: somehow that seems less convenient, to have to add extra notation to make this work in SLIME
2016-01-29T11:42:37Z White_Flame: I think that loading yoru code via quickload/asdf would likely require the same
2016-01-29T11:42:56Z dreamaddict: like I said, normally using (load) there are no problems with this sort of thing
2016-01-29T11:42:56Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T11:43:12Z White_Flame: right, and I explained why
2016-01-29T11:43:36Z White_Flame: but (load) generally isn't the normal way to pull in applications or libraries; it's generally only done for user startup and simple scripts
2016-01-29T11:43:49Z dreamaddict: so apparently...I am going to have to learn the habit of adding extra code around things like quickload to make sure that they are properly evaluated upon compilation
2016-01-29T11:43:57Z dreamaddict: and I guess this is a better habit in any case
2016-01-29T11:44:30Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:44:37Z White_Flame: if your code was inside a real project, then it would have the mixalot system as a dependency, which would be loaded in first, before your file is brought in
2016-01-29T11:44:50Z jdz_: dreamaddict: it is usually a good idea to lead the dependencies of your code before compiling/running the code that depends on them
2016-01-29T11:45:00Z White_Flame: it's generally not a good idea to have external dependencies right inside your file that the code lower down requires
2016-01-29T11:45:00Z jdz_ is now known as jdz
2016-01-29T11:45:24Z dreamaddict: no I get it, the issue here is really that I've been using load the whole time, and this entire aspect has been hidden from me
2016-01-29T11:45:27Z moore33: Where's the project template I just saw in Edi's book (at home :) )?
2016-01-29T11:46:09Z dreamaddict: edi's book is out?
2016-01-29T11:46:15Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T11:46:17Z dreamaddict: I've heard that guy is a Lisp superhero
2016-01-29T11:46:45Z moore33: dreamaddict: Yes. It's very good. I say that even though I'm not part of the target audience, according to the intro.
2016-01-29T11:47:18Z holycow_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-29T11:47:54Z dreamaddict: perfect...adding the eval-when wrapper fixed it completely
2016-01-29T11:47:59Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:48:17Z dreamaddict: that is going to either become part of a macro, or a new habit
2016-01-29T11:49:51Z White_Flame: yeah, (eval-always ...) as a helper here
2016-01-29T11:50:30Z jdz: a better yet habit would be to write your code as a "module" with it's own package and system definition (that's where dependencies would go)
2016-01-29T11:50:52Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:51:31Z dreamaddict: every file...like the namespace etiquette/style in newer C type languages?
2016-01-29T11:51:32Z william3 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T11:53:24Z jdz: well, you'd start with system definition (ASDF)
2016-01-29T11:53:35Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:53:36Z baboon` quit (Quit: Baboons don't die, they nap)
2016-01-29T11:53:59Z jdz: there's this: http://www.xach.com/lisp/quickproject/ (have not used myself)
2016-01-29T11:54:24Z jdz: dreamaddict: also this: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html
2016-01-29T11:56:21Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T11:57:36Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T11:58:00Z dreamaddict: awesome
2016-01-29T11:58:10Z dreamaddict: this package handling code is something I really need to look over
2016-01-29T11:58:40Z dreamaddict: the whole concept of how it works in Lisp hasn't really gelled yet
2016-01-29T12:01:05Z White_Flame: a reasonable tactic is to put your source code under ~/quicklisp/local-projects/<proj-name>/, and put a .asd file inside there.  Copy some other .asd and edit it; it should be reasonably simple to see what it does
2016-01-29T12:01:25Z White_Flame: then when you start your lisp, you can just (ql:quickload "<proj-name>")
2016-01-29T12:01:31Z White_Flame: instead of manually loading files
2016-01-29T12:02:05Z djh: Anyone know if/how well the Recipes book covers quicklisp, asdf, etc?
2016-01-29T12:02:12Z White_Flame: you could also symlink ~/quicklisp/local-projects/my-dir -> ~/git/ or whatever, and that will search through the directory tree for your projects' .asd files
2016-01-29T12:02:30Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:02:56Z je4i: djh: yes it does cover these things quite well
2016-01-29T12:03:02Z djh: cheers!
2016-01-29T12:04:29Z Munksgaard: Or setup source-registry.conf.d appropriately
2016-01-29T12:04:51Z White_Flame: yeah, new features come up and I've got inertia with the prior schemes :-P
2016-01-29T12:07:23Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T12:07:54Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:08:24Z p_l: hmm. I could use a bunch of IP/TCP/UDP etc. parsers in CL
2016-01-29T12:09:35Z JitanRo quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-29T12:12:27Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:13:44Z dreamaddict: ok so all of my little projects and screwing around go in local-projects
2016-01-29T12:14:14Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T12:15:22Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T12:15:41Z bpanthi quit (Quit: bpanthi)
2016-01-29T12:18:24Z ramky quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T12:19:37Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-29T12:20:40Z je4i: to teach ql to find other project directories you customize quicklisp-client:*local-project-directories*
2016-01-29T12:23:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:23:15Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-29T12:23:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:24:31Z digiorgi joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:24:46Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:26:07Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:26:42Z digiorgi: doing a (asdf:operate 'asdf:monolithic-compile-bundle-op :test) how can i specify where the end result is stored? Because i can't change it, it simply copies in ~/.cache/common-lisp/abcl/..../project/.. etc
2016-01-29T12:26:54Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T12:26:55Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:28:37Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:29:31Z prohobo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:33:48Z Munksgaard: dreamaddict: https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#Configuring-ASDF-to-find-your-systems
2016-01-29T12:34:08Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T12:34:16Z dreamaddict: woo!  I got it to play an mp3 file with mixalot!
2016-01-29T12:34:23Z dreamaddict: feels good
2016-01-29T12:34:50Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:36:17Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:38:05Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T12:38:20Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T12:38:44Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:40:31Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T12:40:55Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:41:47Z dreamaddict: all right, bookmarked all of those asdf links for later
2016-01-29T12:41:55Z dreamaddict quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T12:45:03Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2016-01-29T12:46:46Z hiroakip quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2016-01-29T12:48:26Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:48:31Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:53:22Z LiamH quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-29T12:55:24Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:55:45Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:56:39Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:56:44Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:57:11Z contrapunctus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T12:57:24Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-29T12:58:04Z loke quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T12:58:11Z loke joined #lisp
2016-01-29T12:59:56Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T13:05:49Z kephasp joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:05:50Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-29T13:06:06Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:06:10Z nkhodyunya quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-29T13:06:56Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:07:29Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-29T13:08:07Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:10:50Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T13:10:56Z andreh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T13:11:45Z kephasp quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T13:12:19Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-29T13:15:54Z p_l quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T13:22:06Z knobo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:24:29Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:29:30Z Wojciech_K quit (Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше))
2016-01-29T13:30:26Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T13:35:09Z Robb_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:35:29Z Robb_: hello?
2016-01-29T13:36:03Z antoszka: I do not know the answer to this question.
2016-01-29T13:37:10Z Cymew quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T13:37:14Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T13:37:20Z djh: "hello?" is a bit scheme-y. For CL it should be hellop, surely? :)
2016-01-29T13:37:31Z Robb_: :D
2016-01-29T13:37:50Z Robb_: I'm trying to do some web dev with clisp
2016-01-29T13:38:00Z Robb_: i've been reading lisp web tales and i'm having trouble with sexml
2016-01-29T13:38:44Z splittist: Robb_: do you mean common lisp, or the clisp implementation of common lisp?
2016-01-29T13:38:50Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:39:11Z jdtest quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T13:39:16Z Robb_: clisp
2016-01-29T13:41:31Z Robb_: (sexml:with-compiletime-active-layers (sexml:standard-sexml sexml:xml-doctype) (sexml:support-dtd (merge-pathnames "html5.dtd" (asdf:system-source-directory "sexml")) :<))
2016-01-29T13:42:00Z max__ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:42:09Z Robb_: I keep getting "*** - APPLY: too many arguments given to #<COMPILED-FUNCTION MACROEXPAND-DAMMIT::HANDLER-FUNCTION>"
2016-01-29T13:42:24Z max__ is now known as Guest66804
2016-01-29T13:43:39Z Guest66804 is now known as mdemon
2016-01-29T13:43:42Z mdemon is now known as xpoferens
2016-01-29T13:45:10Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T13:45:38Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:46:38Z eschulte joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:47:24Z eschulte left #lisp
2016-01-29T13:48:14Z sweater joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:48:37Z sweater is now known as Guest91845
2016-01-29T13:49:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T13:49:42Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:49:50Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-29T13:50:01Z Robb_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-29T13:50:18Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:51:53Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-29T13:51:57Z p_l joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:53:02Z danieli quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2016-01-29T13:53:13Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:53:32Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:53:57Z xpoferens quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T13:53:57Z mdemont quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T13:54:10Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T13:54:54Z danieli quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-29T13:55:20Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T13:55:24Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:56:34Z danieli quit (Changing host)
2016-01-29T13:56:35Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-29T13:58:01Z jdtest joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:00:09Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:00:10Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:00:10Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2016-01-29T14:00:10Z oleo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:01:28Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:04:33Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:06:29Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:06:29Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-29T14:06:29Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:06:34Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:07:05Z jackdaniel: minion: memo for beach: bordeaux threads takes keyword argument from the most recent release (0.8.4), which is the default with the current quicklisp dist (it didn't take it on 0.8.3 though)
2016-01-29T14:07:05Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-29T14:07:23Z jackdaniel: minion: memo for beach: I'm talking about this commit https://github.com/robert-strandh/McCLIM/commit/6a9aa17825e905efd6a923241d1ce28158b740d4
2016-01-29T14:07:23Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-29T14:08:45Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:08:54Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T14:10:03Z mishoo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T14:10:23Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:11:16Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:14:23Z Cymew joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:15:35Z kephasp joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:15:39Z Warlock[29A] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T14:16:36Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-29T14:19:36Z technik quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T14:21:41Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:22:38Z technik joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:24:35Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T14:25:56Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T14:26:15Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T14:26:49Z loke__ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:28:38Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:29:03Z digiorgi: it? xd
2016-01-29T14:31:18Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T14:33:58Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:35:51Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T14:36:02Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:37:26Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:38:46Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T14:42:15Z Spruce joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:42:24Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:42:33Z Munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T14:44:02Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T14:45:59Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:46:31Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:46:53Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T14:47:26Z munksgaa1d quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T14:49:09Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:49:15Z nyef: G'morning all.
2016-01-29T14:49:23Z fe[nl]ix: hi nyef
2016-01-29T14:50:07Z nyef: Going back a few hours, being able to funcall an array with indexes as parameters was also a feature of the TI Explorer, and presumably earlier LispMs, and possibly earlier Lisps.
2016-01-29T14:50:24Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T14:56:06Z moore33: nyef: Oh right!
2016-01-29T14:59:42Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T14:59:56Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:00:12Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:02:22Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:03:50Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:05:05Z fuzer joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:06:02Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:07:26Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:12:03Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-29T15:12:21Z fuzer: hi. I want crete simple udp server recieves and print data. http://pastebin.com/B50i7Ejs - this code prints nothing. Why?
2016-01-29T15:13:52Z Zhivago: A little force-output might go a long way.
2016-01-29T15:15:12Z kephasp quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:15:30Z Zhivago: Also, consider the value of logstream.
2016-01-29T15:15:51Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:16:15Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:16:15Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:18:00Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:19:02Z prohobo: why are there so many freaking equal operators
2016-01-29T15:19:24Z prohobo: i cant make heads or tails of what these things will evaluate to
2016-01-29T15:19:43Z prohobo: eq, equal, equalp, default, what
2016-01-29T15:19:57Z Zhivago: prohobo: They weed out the weak-minded.
2016-01-29T15:20:55Z prohobo: predicates* my bad
2016-01-29T15:22:15Z contrapunctus: prohobo: I think it's covered here - http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/syntax-and-semantics.html
2016-01-29T15:23:09Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:23:43Z kephasp joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:23:59Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:24:13Z mishoo__ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-29T15:24:30Z dlowe: prohobo: eq returns T if its arguments are the same object. eql returns T if the arguments are the same value (or EQ), and equal/equalp are fuzzy notions of equality
2016-01-29T15:25:08Z prohobo: yeah ty, i just figured out eq is simple enough that it's essentially a pointer check
2016-01-29T15:25:32Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:25:40Z Zhivago: Think of EQ as being a specialized version of EQL.
2016-01-29T15:25:49Z Zhivago: And understand EQL as testing object identity.
2016-01-29T15:25:52Z dlowe: prohobo: EQL is what you usually want. By happy design, it's the default equality predicate on most CL functions
2016-01-29T15:26:25Z dlowe: Use = for numeric comparison. There are also type-specific functions like char= and string=
2016-01-29T15:26:27Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:26:42Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-29T15:26:56Z Zhivago: Had they called it SAME-OBJECT? it would have been easier, but back in the dark ages characters were more expensive.
2016-01-29T15:27:01Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:28:12Z z0d: and it's always cool to have cryptic names like EQL or PROGN
2016-01-29T15:28:34Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:28:47Z Zhivago: That's why lisp programmers are better -- the bad ones can't handle the horror of it all. :)
2016-01-29T15:29:14Z prohobo: everyone says lisp is so squeeky clean though :\
2016-01-29T15:29:32Z prohobo: are you saying it's going to be horrific?
2016-01-29T15:30:00Z Zhivago: CL was built by smashing a bunch of existing lisp dialects together with a hammer.
2016-01-29T15:30:17Z Zhivago: So the standard library is somewhat horrific.
2016-01-29T15:30:22Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T15:31:04Z dlowe: I wouldn't say "horrific" :p
2016-01-29T15:31:11Z Zhivago: The core language is reasonably clean, but if you really want clean, then you should be looking at scheme.
2016-01-29T15:31:15Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:31:39Z mishoo__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T15:31:58Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:33:09Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:33:42Z fuzer: with force-output and standard-output http://pastebin.com/wna5dC2n - doesn't print
2016-01-29T15:34:22Z Zhivago: Try putting in something to exit lisp there -- perhaps it just isn't being called?
2016-01-29T15:34:53Z salv0 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:35:00Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T15:35:06Z Zhivago: If that works, you might consider (BREAK) instead.
2016-01-29T15:37:02Z kephasp quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:37:14Z fuzer: #<SB-THREAD:THREAD "USOCKET Server" RUNNING {B261081}>
2016-01-29T15:37:24Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:38:46Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:40:49Z prohobo: OMG f.lux works on linux
2016-01-29T15:41:04Z prohobo: but only on one monitor..
2016-01-29T15:41:29Z shka joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:44:11Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:45:29Z prohobo quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2016-01-29T15:45:35Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-29T15:47:45Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:49:09Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:49:40Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T15:52:12Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:52:47Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T15:53:45Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:54:18Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:56:32Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:56:39Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:57:05Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:57:44Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-29T15:58:16Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T15:58:25Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:00:07Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:00:16Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:01:32Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:01:53Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:02:32Z fuzer: (start-server 6000); lsof | grep 6000 -> nil
2016-01-29T16:03:13Z fuzer: lsof | grep sbcl | grep UDP -> only x11
2016-01-29T16:04:01Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:04:26Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:06:06Z Guest91845 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:06:26Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:07:03Z developernotes joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:07:10Z developernotes quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-29T16:07:22Z developernotes joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:07:48Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:07:55Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:08:50Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:08:56Z NeverDie_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:12:07Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:12:37Z kenanb: is there a standard mapping function that doesn't funcall the function with the successive elt but applies the function to it
2016-01-29T16:12:56Z MoALTz_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:13:32Z kenanb: (mapping-fn #'+ '((1 2) (3 4))) => (3 7)
2016-01-29T16:15:54Z dlowe: (apply #'mapcar #" '((1 2) (3 4)))
2016-01-29T16:16:03Z dlowe: er, #+, not #"
2016-01-29T16:17:00Z kenanb: dlowe: nope that is different
2016-01-29T16:17:33Z sjl: you're looking for something like this right? (mapcar (compose #'apply #'+) '((1 2) (3 4)))
2016-01-29T16:17:42Z sjl: (the compose/apply part)
2016-01-29T16:17:46Z akkad: Zhivago: exit is a great example of non-standard :P
2016-01-29T16:17:48Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:18:00Z sjl: er
2016-01-29T16:18:02Z kenanb: dlowe: it applies fn to a list compiled from the elts at same position of each list in args
2016-01-29T16:18:09Z sjl: (partial #'apply #'+)
2016-01-29T16:18:11Z sjl: not compose
2016-01-29T16:18:20Z kenanb: sjl: checking
2016-01-29T16:18:28Z dlowe: kenanb: there is not such a standard mapping function
2016-01-29T16:18:58Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:19:46Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:20:22Z kenanb: sjl: what is partial?
2016-01-29T16:20:50Z sjl: I don't think it's built in to CL
2016-01-29T16:20:53Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:20:54Z sjl: partial function application
2016-01-29T16:21:03Z beach: Good afternoon everyone!
2016-01-29T16:21:04Z minion: beach, memo from jackdaniel: bordeaux threads takes keyword argument from the most recent release (0.8.4), which is the default with the current quicklisp dist (it didn't take it on 0.8.3 though)
2016-01-29T16:21:04Z minion: beach, memo from jackdaniel: I'm talking about this commit https://github.com/robert-strandh/McCLIM/commit/6a9aa17825e905efd6a923241d1ce28158b740d4
2016-01-29T16:21:19Z beach: jackdaniel: Thanks.  I reverted the commit.
2016-01-29T16:21:29Z sjl: e.g. (let ((add-one (partial #'+ 1)) (funcall add-one 6)) would give 7
2016-01-29T16:21:54Z kenanb: good afternoon beach
2016-01-29T16:22:13Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:22:59Z kenanb: sjl: it isn't
2016-01-29T16:23:12Z sjl: ok no idea what you're looking for then
2016-01-29T16:23:28Z sjl: well kind of.  I don't think it's built-in
2016-01-29T16:24:25Z kenanb: I am just wondering if there is an even better way of doing this: (mapcar (lambda (x) (apply #'+ x)) '((1 2) (3 4)))
2016-01-29T16:24:40Z sjl: (mapcar (beef:partial #'apply #'+) (list '(1 2) '(3 4)))
2016-01-29T16:24:44Z sjl: (3 7)
2016-01-29T16:24:45Z moore33: kenanb: You want something like (defun make-applier (fn) (lambda (&rest args) (apply fn args))).
2016-01-29T16:24:52Z kenanb: simply because in CL there turns out to be a better way, almost always
2016-01-29T16:24:56Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:24:57Z moore33: Then pass that to mapcar.
2016-01-29T16:25:54Z sjl: (partial #'apply #'foo) will do what you want, but partial isn't built-in so you'd need to write it yourself
2016-01-29T16:26:00Z moore33: kenanb: Although that last example implies you don't want the &rest arg i..e., you want to take the list from a single list argument to mapcar.
2016-01-29T16:26:15Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:26:35Z kenanb: exactly
2016-01-29T16:26:53Z moore33: Then just take it out :)
2016-01-29T16:28:21Z Wojciech_K quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-29T16:28:35Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:28:39Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:29:02Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:29:48Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:30:13Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:30:20Z helio quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:30:49Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2016-01-29T16:30:55Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:33:39Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:33:45Z beach: Today, I did some major surgery on the CLX backend of McCLIM in that I changed the way McCLIM recognizes modifiers such as shift, lock, control, etc.  I tested it briefly by running Climacs (the first one) and it seems to work.  I would appreciate it if other people would give it a spin.  Especially people who use the Alt Gr key.
2016-01-29T16:33:50Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:33:55Z durm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:34:19Z Guest14 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:34:51Z beach: The reason for the surgery was that the existing way was based entirely on keysyms, which made it impossible to do what I (and many others) do, namely make CapsLock another control key.
2016-01-29T16:35:42Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T16:35:54Z beach: In fact, with the old way, when CapsLock was turned into another control key, ANY control key would turn on the lock modifier, which is clearly wrong.
2016-01-29T16:36:14Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:36:43Z fuzer quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-29T16:39:20Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-29T16:39:50Z kenanb: beach: I'll test it, should I pull your McCLIM repo and CLX fork or is just McCLIM enough?
2016-01-29T16:40:09Z kenanb: beach: is it OK if rest of the libs come from quicklisp?
2016-01-29T16:40:24Z beach: You should be able to use CLX from Quicklisp.
2016-01-29T16:40:44Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:40:45Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-29T16:40:47Z beach: I have made only cosmetic changes to CLX so far.
2016-01-29T16:42:36Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:42:58Z kenanb: cloning
2016-01-29T16:43:16Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:43:18Z beach: Thanks for helping out.
2016-01-29T16:44:01Z kenanb: beach: well, thanks for keeping the beautiful thing that is CLIM alive :)
2016-01-29T16:44:21Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:44:47Z beach: Thanks.  I hope to improve it too. :)
2016-01-29T16:45:25Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-29T16:45:28Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-29T16:45:28Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:45:40Z puchacz quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-29T16:46:31Z beach: Now I need to figure out a good data structure for an output record (with children) for displaying the contents of an editor buffer (this is for Second Climacs).
2016-01-29T16:46:41Z kenanb: cool, btw what do you think about the mixin based extension implementation in mcclim, does it serve well or do you hope to improve that sometime too?
2016-01-29T16:47:13Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:47:33Z beach: Sorry, but what is "the mixin based extension implementation"?
2016-01-29T16:49:30Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:49:57Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:51:08Z digiorgi quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T16:51:34Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-29T16:53:00Z kenanb: beach: I mean the stealth mixins, wasn't that the method that is used for extensions in McCLIM
2016-01-29T16:53:13Z moore33: ?
2016-01-29T16:53:25Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:53:30Z beach: I don't thinks so, no.
2016-01-29T16:53:39Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:53:44Z beach: It was used in some application, probably Gsharp.
2016-01-29T16:53:48Z kenanb: beach: I may be confusing things tho, because now I see they are defined in SICL, not in McCLIM
2016-01-29T16:54:04Z drmeister: I just blogged this:  https://wordpress.com/post/drmeister.wordpress.com/266
2016-01-29T16:54:05Z beach: Ah, yes, drmeister needed something like that.
2016-01-29T16:54:35Z moore33: drmeister: A login page?
2016-01-29T16:54:45Z drmeister: It's about the new scraper I wrote in Common Lisp to scrape annotations out of C++ code to expose them to CL
2016-01-29T16:54:54Z drmeister: moore33 Is that what you see?  Sorry - hang on.
2016-01-29T16:54:57Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:55:25Z drmeister: Here:  https://drmeister.wordpress.com
2016-01-29T16:55:45Z moore33: drmeister:That's better :)
2016-01-29T16:56:05Z drmeister: beach: What do I need?
2016-01-29T16:56:16Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:56:22Z beach: drmeister: Stealth mixins.
2016-01-29T16:56:24Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:56:59Z contrapunctus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:57:05Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:57:53Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:58:28Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:58:36Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:58:46Z contrapunctus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T16:58:46Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T16:58:50Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:58:57Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-29T16:59:46Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-29T16:59:51Z kenanb: beach: and should I test it with climacs from quicklisp or from a repo of yours?
2016-01-29T17:00:07Z beach: I don't think it matters which.
2016-01-29T17:00:09Z psy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:00:25Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:00:43Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:01:05Z beach: For an output record displaying an editor buffer, I am thinking of a splay tree of lines.  Any opinions about that?
2016-01-29T17:01:09Z quasus joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:01:19Z drmeister: Everybody needs stealth mixins - they are awesome.
2016-01-29T17:01:23Z beach: Then, lines on display would migrate close to the root of the tree.
2016-01-29T17:01:41Z drmeister: I use them.
2016-01-29T17:02:51Z drmeister: I use them to annotate hir nodes with integer identifiers for debugging
2016-01-29T17:03:59Z UtkarshRay quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T17:04:32Z kenanb: beach: I am testing it via Climacs right now, on Arch Linux with SBCL 1.3.1, seems to be OK, there is no problem with my swapcaps setting
2016-01-29T17:04:50Z beach: kenanb: Thank you so much for doing that!
2016-01-29T17:06:09Z kenanb: beach: I get ISO-LEVEL3-SHIFT is not bound when I try AltGR, in my Turkish keyboard it is normally used in combination with Q to output at-sign. so it is functional in other places, but not in Climacs
2016-01-29T17:06:24Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:07:18Z moore33: beach, drmeister: What's a stealth mixin?
2016-01-29T17:07:18Z beach: OK, I am not surprised.  I don't think that is due to my recent surgery, but it still needs to be addressed.
2016-01-29T17:07:30Z digiorgi joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:08:00Z beach: http://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedings/aswec/2007/2778/00/27780111.pdf
2016-01-29T17:08:14Z beach: moore33: ↑
2016-01-29T17:08:22Z moore33: beach: ok.
2016-01-29T17:08:25Z kenanb: beach: but except it being not bound, I haven't seen any problems with keyboard input
2016-01-29T17:08:52Z beach: kenanb: That is very helpful.  Thanks again.
2016-01-29T17:08:56Z moore33: beach: As for the output record question, are you thinking of using a spatial structure in addition to the splay tree?
2016-01-29T17:09:25Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:09:32Z beach: moore33: No, I was thinking of making the splay tree represent the spatial structure.
2016-01-29T17:09:53Z moore33: beach: By the way, the paper isn't there :(
2016-01-29T17:10:07Z beach: Sorry about that.
2016-01-29T17:10:07Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-29T17:10:13Z kenanb: beach: ofc some Turkish keys are also not bound, but that was always the case :D I can help more with Turkish side of i18n when it comes to that stage.
2016-01-29T17:10:32Z beach: kenanb: That would be fantastic!
2016-01-29T17:10:44Z moore33: beach: OK, I see that the splay property doesn't affect the ordering.
2016-01-29T17:11:02Z beach: Right, it is just rotations, and rotations preserve the order.
2016-01-29T17:11:27Z beach: It is a little-known fact apparently, but most search trees can represent sequences.
2016-01-29T17:11:49Z moore33: I like your ironic tone :)
2016-01-29T17:12:14Z drmeister: moore33: It's a way to inject additional slots into a class.
2016-01-29T17:12:33Z drmeister: Into a class that you didn't write and don't want to alter directly.
2016-01-29T17:12:35Z beach: moore33: I take it *you* knew about it, but many people don't.
2016-01-29T17:13:03Z beach: By replacing the "keys" in the search tree by the size of the subtree, it turns the search tree into a representation of a sequence.
2016-01-29T17:13:14Z moore33: beach: Yeah.
2016-01-29T17:13:16Z drmeister: moore33: Here's my implementation:  http://paste.lisp.org/display/306123
2016-01-29T17:13:16Z jeaye quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-29T17:13:25Z kenanb: beach: you are welcome, it was fun, if you open issues on what you need tested, I can subscribe to repo and test occasionally
2016-01-29T17:14:08Z beach: kenanb: I'll try to keep that in mind.  It won't be easy, but I'll try. :)
2016-01-29T17:14:59Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:15:58Z moore33: drmeister: So it's a somewhat formalized way of using change-class.
2016-01-29T17:16:10Z beach: moore33: No.
2016-01-29T17:16:20Z moore33: *cough*
2016-01-29T17:16:40Z beach: moore33: It inserts mixin superclasses into other classes.
2016-01-29T17:16:47Z PuercoPop: kenanb: sjl: "partial" is in alexandria, it is named curry. There are reader macros for easy of use, (ql:quickload :curry-compose-reader-macros)
2016-01-29T17:17:05Z moore33: beach: By redefining the class on the fly, no?
2016-01-29T17:17:08Z beach: Yes.
2016-01-29T17:17:19Z beach: Well, let's see.
2016-01-29T17:18:03Z beach: I think the MOP takes care of re-running finalize-inheritance.
2016-01-29T17:18:05Z moore33: Ok, you're not using change-class, but you are changing the class of any existing instances... which seems even more powerful (and more of a hack :) )
2016-01-29T17:18:06Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:18:35Z moore33: beach: Incidently, I think this is a better way of doing Clim's encapsulating streams.
2016-01-29T17:18:44Z beach: That's only a side effect if there are already instances.
2016-01-29T17:19:00Z beach: Oh, interesting.
2016-01-29T17:19:42Z moore33: beach: ... which always had the problem of losing the encapsulating stream when the encapsulated string called back into the stream protocols.
2016-01-29T17:20:02Z beach: Right, it slowly comes back to me.
2016-01-29T17:20:11Z beach: There is even a remark about that in the spec as I recall.
2016-01-29T17:20:29Z moore33: And in ancient source code too!
2016-01-29T17:21:54Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:22:41Z kenanb: PuercoPop: thanks, I'll check it out
2016-01-29T17:22:56Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:23:56Z jasom: Can anybody recommend something for writing user docs?  There's lots of library documentation tools, but I have a project that may see non-developer end users.  For dead-tree docs I've used latex, but I don't know how feasible it is to make non-ugly html output with that.
2016-01-29T17:24:47Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:24:53Z jasom: I suppose I could use a static site generator
2016-01-29T17:24:54Z beach: jasom: Wow, don't get me started. :)
2016-01-29T17:25:27Z dwchandler: beach: we all want to hear!
2016-01-29T17:25:27Z contrapunctus: beach: if this is the subject of discussion...I'm afraid I cannot figure out how one is supposed to build it :\ https://github.com/robert-strandh/Second-Climacs
2016-01-29T17:26:01Z beach: contrapunctus: I wouldn't bother with Second Climacs yet.
2016-01-29T17:26:48Z beach: contrapunctus: I am about to put a CLIM II GUI on it.  At the moment, it only has a CLIM3/ClIMatis GUI, which means that you can't do things like prompt for file names.
2016-01-29T17:27:10Z beach: contrapunctus: The subject of the discussion was (first) Climacs.
2016-01-29T17:27:12Z contrapunctus: oh, wait a sec, last commit '20 days ago' >.>
2016-01-29T17:27:16Z beach: It is not GITified.
2016-01-29T17:27:19Z PuercoPop: jasom: one of the easiest way is to use use w/ https://github.com/russell/sphinxcontrib-cldomain
2016-01-29T17:27:38Z PuercoPop: (don't look under the hood though, you have been warned)
2016-01-29T17:28:33Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:28:45Z PuercoPop: ideally something similar using codex would be a good replacement. being able to reference not only the hyperspec but any library loaded similar to how Racket's scribe works
2016-01-29T17:28:48Z beach: jasom: http://metamodular.com/Common-Lisp/document-library.html
2016-01-29T17:29:01Z Denommus joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:29:49Z jasom: oh PuercoPop that reminds me, I need to finish up my CommonDoc restructured text parser
2016-01-29T17:30:30Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T17:30:59Z beach: jasom: CCL-doc seems to be a good starting point, but it is incomplete as far as I am concerned.
2016-01-29T17:32:14Z jasom: also, the lisp tools for typesetting PDFs are not in a great state; cl-typesetting is *old* and cannot handle non latin-1 characters
2016-01-29T17:32:29Z beach can only agree. :(
2016-01-29T17:33:26Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T17:33:55Z jasom: I actually use cl-typesetting, and just filter the input (repace e.g. em-dash with two hyphens, smart-quotes with " &ct.)
2016-01-29T17:34:27Z beach: I am impressed.
2016-01-29T17:36:52Z znpy quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T17:39:06Z PuercoPop: jasom: that would be a nice addition to CommonDoc
2016-01-29T17:39:56Z jasom: PuercoPop: I wrote the restructured text parser about 6 years ago to learn smug and dusted it off when I saw common doc in the past year
2016-01-29T17:40:50Z wheelsucker quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T17:43:11Z jasom: reviewing the code has made me wonder what the distribution is for 3 reasons I've identified that my old code looks bad to me: 1) I've learned things, 2) I've forgotten the reason the obvious general-case solution doesn't work and needs 27 special cases, and 3) Looking at a problem with fresh eyes often reveals obvious solutions one couldn't see at the time
2016-01-29T17:44:13Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:44:22Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2016-01-29T17:44:59Z attila_lendvai: we've managed to generate non latin-1 pdf's but it was a pain... it involved gutting a font to only contain the extra characters, and kludge-patch cl-typesetting to split the strings and set the font for the "outlier" characters... or otherwise live with huge pdf's with embedded fornts.
2016-01-29T17:45:01Z PuercoPop: sometimes some test cases for degenerate cases may help remembering why the code was written as it was written
2016-01-29T17:47:36Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:47:48Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-29T17:49:11Z jasom bows in respect to attila_lendvai's superior cl-typsetting skills
2016-01-29T17:49:41Z jasom: It helped that I was typsetting enlgish text, so I could get away with only latin-1
2016-01-29T17:49:56Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T17:50:06Z attila_lendvai: oh, and I loved the failure modes of cl-typesetting... like silently not displaying anything if it didn't fit...
2016-01-29T17:50:40Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:50:49Z jasom: attila_lendvai: no sh^H^H kidding.  It took me a while to find the option to let things expand across pages
2016-01-29T17:52:10Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T17:52:35Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T17:57:10Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-29T17:57:11Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:57:51Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:57:59Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T17:58:00Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-29T17:58:26Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T17:58:34Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2016-01-29T17:58:34Z yrk joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:01:49Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T18:03:00Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:04:57Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-29T18:07:06Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T18:07:44Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:09:35Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:09:39Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:16:13Z grouzen joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:18:23Z HardWall joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:19:39Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:21:12Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:21:23Z mishoo__ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-29T18:24:14Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:25:36Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T18:26:50Z kenanb left #lisp
2016-01-29T18:28:23Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-29T18:28:26Z Spruce quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T18:29:45Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:30:13Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:30:50Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:32:32Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T18:35:45Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T18:37:12Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T18:37:40Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:37:48Z isoraqathedh: External-program seems to want to find \usr\bin\env on Windows 10/64-bit.
2016-01-29T18:37:50Z pjb: phoe_krk: actually, the first javascript interpreter was written in lisp, there are remains of those sources inside the depths of the netscape/firefox source repositories.
2016-01-29T18:39:56Z isoraqathedh: I found out that :windows wasn't in *features* – but despite restarting sbcl and even Emacs and adding :windows to *features* it still seems to want  to find \usr\bin\env
2016-01-29T18:40:37Z z0d: pjb: didn't know that
2016-01-29T18:41:17Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:42:14Z rtoym quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T18:42:58Z rtoym joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:43:26Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T18:45:15Z Spruce joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:45:30Z pjb: Tiferet: don't listen to those who say that you need to be a MIT student to read sicp. I learned about ackerman's function learning programming in LSE when I was a child too. It's a classical example of non-terminal recursion; there's nothing hard about it.
2016-01-29T18:48:14Z mordocai: People say you need to be a MIT student to learn SICP? What's wrong with those people?
2016-01-29T18:48:17Z PuercoPop: pjb: it is not the first javascript interpreter, but a ES4 implementation IIRC
2016-01-29T18:49:09Z bogwonch quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T18:49:15Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:50:21Z kushal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T18:51:17Z PuercoPop: I stand corrected http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/js2/semantics/
2016-01-29T18:51:31Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:51:53Z jlarocco joined #lisp
2016-01-29T18:57:14Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T18:59:15Z dwchandler: mordocai: obviously you do not need to be an MIT student, but some people will struggle with SICP because they don't have background in a few areas. The programming bits in SICP aren't the issue, I think
2016-01-29T18:59:16Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:01:31Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:08:23Z w3pm joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:08:24Z developernotes quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T19:10:10Z Posterdati: hi
2016-01-29T19:10:22Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T19:11:21Z Posterdati: how can I print a backspace on slime repl? (format t "a~ac" #\Backspace) --> a^Hc
2016-01-29T19:13:01Z splittist: Posterdati: what can it possibly mean to print a backspace character? One idea is what you showed above. What would another be?
2016-01-29T19:13:35Z developernotes joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:15:43Z Th30n: Anyone using sdl2? How can I use sdl2:gl-set-attr? Do I need to unwrap the keywords to enum values via autowrap or what?
2016-01-29T19:17:04Z mordocai: Th30n: quite a few people familiar with cl-sdl2 primarily hang out in #lispgames if you want to ask there
2016-01-29T19:17:24Z Th30n: ok
2016-01-29T19:17:48Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T19:18:07Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:18:26Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:18:45Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T19:18:57Z p_l: dwchandler: well, it was hard intro text
2016-01-29T19:20:49Z pjb` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:21:39Z p_l: arguably too hard for MIT,though the replacement of 6.001 with 6.01 played part in why I didn't reapply xD
2016-01-29T19:22:04Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-29T19:22:19Z dwchandler: heh
2016-01-29T19:22:21Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T19:22:26Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T19:23:24Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:24:04Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:25:50Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T19:26:44Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:27:51Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:28:35Z p_l: I'm not in debt, at least xD
2016-01-29T19:29:03Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:29:23Z jasom: The problem with SICP for less-advanced students is many of the examples assume a knowledge of math that is unrelated to programming (e.g. differential and integral calculus)
2016-01-29T19:30:14Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:30:27Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T19:31:22Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:33:13Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:33:36Z PuercoPop: only for the 1st chaper iirc
2016-01-29T19:34:15Z jasom: PuercoPop: which is the first impression of the book
2016-01-29T19:34:42Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:34:48Z dwchandler: I should go through it again and see if there are other trouble spots. nothing comes to mind
2016-01-29T19:35:48Z jasom: p_l: I thought MIT's replacement of SICP was due to lisp being perceived as not relevant?
2016-01-29T19:36:41Z pjb` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:40:23Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:40:28Z je4i: http://cemerick.com/2009/03/24/why-mit-now-uses-python-instead-of-scheme-for-its-undergraduate-cs-program/
2016-01-29T19:41:33Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T19:42:06Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T19:44:03Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T19:44:56Z artbv joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:45:58Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:46:20Z p_l: jasom: lisp is actually barely a chapter in SICP. The rest of it was also considered problematic, and IIRC 6.01 also had positives like more EE side of the curriculum (iirc, it's required module in both majors)
2016-01-29T19:46:55Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T19:47:47Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T19:47:56Z euandreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:48:39Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-29T19:51:24Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:51:40Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-29T19:54:25Z Posterdati: splittist: a rotating bar: | / - \ ...
2016-01-29T19:54:38Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T19:56:23Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T19:58:03Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-29T19:59:06Z ejbs joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:03:53Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:04:37Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-29T20:05:27Z warweasle quit (Quit: later)
2016-01-29T20:06:16Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:08:06Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:10:30Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:10:41Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:10:47Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:11:32Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:12:46Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T20:13:16Z Kruppe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:20:11Z je4i quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T20:23:33Z NeverDie quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-29T20:25:11Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:25:17Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:25:28Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:26:00Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:29:28Z NeverDie quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-29T20:29:43Z ejbs` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:29:45Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:30:55Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:31:26Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:31:32Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:32:53Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:34:52Z ejbs` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T20:40:43Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2016-01-29T20:42:11Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:43:36Z GCRTJ1745-3009 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:46:06Z xificurC joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:47:08Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:47:21Z GCRTJ1745-3009 is now known as pullmeunder
2016-01-29T20:47:41Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T20:48:55Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-29T20:50:43Z developernotes quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-29T20:53:24Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:54:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:57:11Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T20:57:40Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T20:58:39Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:00:36Z ggole quit
2016-01-29T21:00:40Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T21:02:47Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:02:56Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T21:03:10Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:03:24Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:03:28Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:04:54Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T21:05:32Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:05:51Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:07:51Z digiorgi quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T21:08:06Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-29T21:10:04Z badkins quit
2016-01-29T21:12:00Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T21:13:15Z contrapunctus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T21:14:59Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:16:08Z Spruce quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T21:16:23Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:17:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T21:19:03Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T21:20:42Z dfcat quit (Quit: ceeya)
2016-01-29T21:23:53Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T21:23:57Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-29T21:23:58Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:24:09Z pullmeunder quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-29T21:25:32Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:26:06Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:26:17Z artbv quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-29T21:27:37Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:32:23Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:32:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:32:27Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-29T21:32:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:32:34Z m0li quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-29T21:33:31Z m0li joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:33:46Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:33:57Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-29T21:40:59Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T21:42:58Z digiorgi joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:45:37Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:48:04Z cabaire joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:51:35Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T21:54:43Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T21:55:58Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T21:57:45Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T21:59:22Z Beetny joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:02:37Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:07:41Z andreh quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T22:09:03Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T22:12:05Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-29T22:14:03Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T22:17:09Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:19:02Z Posterdati: hi
2016-01-29T22:19:12Z Posterdati: how can I print a backspace on slime repl? (format t "a~ac" #\Backspace) --> a^Hc
2016-01-29T22:19:26Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T22:19:47Z antoszka: Posterdati: you want it to actually rub out the preceding character?
2016-01-29T22:19:55Z antoszka: ^H *is* a backspace
2016-01-29T22:20:00Z antoszka: but escaped for printing
2016-01-29T22:20:19Z Posterdati: antoszka: precisely
2016-01-29T22:20:49Z antoszka: what's the output terminal?
2016-01-29T22:21:10Z antoszka: maybe some literale ANSI escape-sequence would be more apt
2016-01-29T22:21:13Z antoszka: literal*
2016-01-29T22:21:34Z Posterdati: I'm using *terminal-io*
2016-01-29T22:21:43Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:21:57Z Posterdati: in an ecl repl from bash it is working
2016-01-29T22:22:00Z antoszka: yeah, but the actual terminal – is that just a linux terminal emulator in X11?
2016-01-29T22:22:10Z Posterdati: no emacs
2016-01-29T22:22:28Z Posterdati: do you mean on ecl repl?
2016-01-29T22:22:56Z antoszka: wherever you want the final result to work – might not be easy to 100% accurately reproduce that in emacs
2016-01-29T22:23:27Z antoszka: if you can live with wrong output in emacs and working result in your final code (if linux terminal/ecl is the final consumer), than I wouldn't bother
2016-01-29T22:23:51Z antoszka: tbh, I wouldn't know how to make this work in emacs
2016-01-29T22:24:37Z antoszka: but it should generally work across implementations in the shell
2016-01-29T22:25:24Z antoszka: (and indeed it does in all impls I have on my system)
2016-01-29T22:28:26Z trinque joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:29:58Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-29T22:33:08Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:35:56Z NeverDie_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T22:36:11Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T22:42:08Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-29T22:42:11Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:43:22Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:43:43Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:49:12Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-29T22:51:15Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:52:41Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-29T22:54:43Z CharlesN joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:54:44Z Posterdati: antoszka: thanls
2016-01-29T22:55:15Z antoszka: np
2016-01-29T22:55:23Z Octothorpe joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:55:40Z Octothorpe is now known as Guest75810
2016-01-29T22:55:57Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T22:57:30Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-29T22:58:50Z cabaire quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-29T22:58:56Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T22:59:23Z CharlesN: I'm trying to create a macro that creates a function of n parameters, looking at the macroexpand-1 looks fine but it fails when called like this (create-func somefunc (x y z))
2016-01-29T22:59:39Z CharlesN: this is code  http://paste.lisp.org/display/306141
2016-01-29T23:01:31Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-29T23:02:06Z Guest75810 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:02:40Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:03:12Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T23:04:10Z phoe_krk: CharlesN: how does it fail?
2016-01-29T23:04:13Z phoe_krk: give us screens.
2016-01-29T23:05:00Z |3b|: CharlesN: the name of the function is probably not a valid variable inside the defined function, and CMD is unlikely to be a function (and probalby not the one you want if it is)
2016-01-29T23:05:59Z |3b|: also, don't put spaces after ( or before )
2016-01-29T23:06:31Z |3b|: EXECUTE probably isn't a defined variable either
2016-01-29T23:06:51Z mordocai: Yeah, parens are meant to hug your code. They can't hug if they are distant!
2016-01-29T23:06:51Z phoe_krk: execute (cmd) - the hell is this?
2016-01-29T23:06:55Z phoe_krk: did you mean (execute cmd)?
2016-01-29T23:07:09Z CharlesN: yes, I meant (execute cmd)
2016-01-29T23:07:23Z defaultxr quit (Quit: bbl)
2016-01-29T23:07:41Z phoe_krk: Does it fix your macro?
2016-01-29T23:07:44Z |3b|: ah, in that case you might just have wanted to quote ,name
2016-01-29T23:07:58Z CharlesN: I have changed that, but still same error
2016-01-29T23:08:12Z CharlesN: While compiling somefunc :
2016-01-29T23:08:12Z CharlesN: Bad lambda list : (1 3 4)
2016-01-29T23:08:12Z CharlesN:    [Condition of type CCL::COMPILE-TIME-PROGRAM-ERROR]
2016-01-29T23:08:23Z phoe_krk: How do you call the macro?
2016-01-29T23:08:38Z CharlesN: (create-func somefunc (x y z))
2016-01-29T23:08:50Z phoe_krk: What are x y z bound to?
2016-01-29T23:08:55Z CharlesN: no
2016-01-29T23:09:24Z CharlesN: they are not bound, I want to create a macro that defines a function that takes n parameters as input
2016-01-29T23:09:47Z CharlesN: so after the macro is call somefunc should be a function taken 3 parameters
2016-01-29T23:09:58Z CharlesN: s/taken/taking
2016-01-29T23:10:02Z |3b|: ah, and not quote ,args (probably (list ,@args) instead
2016-01-29T23:10:04Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:10:18Z |3b|: and convert name to a sequence, probably with symbol-name
2016-01-29T23:11:00Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:11:03Z |3b|: and format nil instead of format t
2016-01-29T23:12:01Z |3b|: or just put the name and () in the format to start with instead of using concatenate
2016-01-29T23:12:14Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:14:50Z jlarocco quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-29T23:16:50Z CharlesN: |3b| why do I need to use symbol-name , defun is not enough in the macro ?
2016-01-29T23:17:04Z |3b|: CharlesN: you can't concatenate a symbol
2016-01-29T23:17:43Z |3b|: you can even less concatenate the value of a variable that doesn't exist, so i'm just guessing what you were actually trying to do
2016-01-29T23:17:56Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:18:07Z |3b|: note that you use ,name twice in that macro, i'm talking about the second use
2016-01-29T23:19:08Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-29T23:19:14Z CharlesN: |3b| thanks
2016-01-29T23:20:11Z phoe_krk: I'm pretty much decided, guys, I'll make a series of Lisp videos outlining/working with its features one by one and I'll subtitle everything in English.
2016-01-29T23:26:55Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:28:38Z zophy joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:28:39Z HardWall quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-29T23:30:08Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:31:42Z jasom: phoe_krk: "its" as in all of Lisp?
2016-01-29T23:32:49Z lisse quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-29T23:33:18Z phoe_krk: jasom: I'll mostly focus on Common Lisp and just shorten it to Lisp wherever it doesn't cause confusion.
2016-01-29T23:33:53Z phoe_krk: Obviously I'll describe the fact that I'm making such a mental shortcut.
2016-01-29T23:34:33Z jasom: phoe_krk: I was assuming Common Lisp as well, just wasn't sure if I had missed some other antecedant to the pronoun
2016-01-29T23:34:48Z jasom: since that's going to be a lot of videos
2016-01-29T23:35:26Z phoe_krk: jasom: I've heard a lot of complaints whenever I was shortcutting Common Lisp to Lisp without explaining why and what I'm doing; I've thought about it and ended up with a thought the people who complain were/are right and I need to make such an explanation.
2016-01-29T23:35:34Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:35:56Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:36:17Z phoe_krk: jasom: well, I'm young. I have the time and inspiration to make a ton of Lisp videos of proper quality, especially the moment I ask for the community's help.
2016-01-29T23:36:27Z jasom: I think context matters; in this channel it's a resonable shortcut, in other contexts it would be very confusing
2016-01-29T23:36:39Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:36:59Z phoe_krk: jasom: that's why I think it's going to be acceptable, to nickname Common Lisp to Lisp in Common Lisp-only videos.
2016-01-29T23:37:02Z Bike joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:37:34Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:39:39Z antoszka: phoe_krk: Adding a few-second disclaimer to your videos: "in the following presentation when I refer to Lisp I mean Common-Lisp, unless specifically mentioned otherwise" :)
2016-01-29T23:39:46Z antoszka: phoe_krk: [solved]
2016-01-29T23:40:00Z phoe_krk: antoszka: yes! precisely that
2016-01-29T23:40:39Z xificurC quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-29T23:40:58Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:41:38Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:41:38Z ehaliewicz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T23:44:58Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:48:02Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-29T23:48:05Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:49:10Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:55:58Z ipmonger_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:56:06Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:58:30Z killmaster_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:58:43Z pareidol1a joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:58:55Z Denommus` joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:59:10Z ryan_vw_ joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:59:13Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z killmaster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z zaquest quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z salv0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z radioninja_work quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z zeroXzero joined #lisp
2016-01-29T23:59:54Z killmaster_ is now known as killmaster
2016-01-29T23:59:58Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-29T23:59:58Z porky11 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T00:00:09Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:00:22Z zaquest joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:00:44Z salv0 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:00:54Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:01:26Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:02:12Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:03:39Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:05:29Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:08:34Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T00:10:22Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T00:10:56Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T00:11:54Z Denommus` is now known as Denommus
2016-01-30T00:12:36Z anunnaki_ quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T00:12:36Z anunnaki_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:12:50Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:18:29Z jasom: If anybody cares, I ended up going with the (non-lisp) tool MkDocs for my user documentation
2016-01-30T00:21:12Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:22:35Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T00:26:30Z jleija joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:27:08Z Fleurety quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T00:28:59Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:29:19Z rneco joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:31:20Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T00:31:56Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:31:58Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T00:33:43Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:37:47Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T00:38:40Z Kundry_W` joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:39:32Z dwchandler: I care.
2016-01-30T00:40:20Z fe[nl]ix: jasom: why ?
2016-01-30T00:40:36Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T00:40:45Z jasom: fe[nl]ix: Easy to use, does what I need.
2016-01-30T00:41:10Z jasom: fe[nl]ix: I don't anticipate having to modify it, so no need to care too much about which language it was written in
2016-01-30T00:41:45Z Kundry_W` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T00:42:25Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:45:13Z _sjs_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:45:18Z _sjs quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T00:45:41Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:45:45Z Guest14 quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-30T00:47:35Z fe[nl]ix: curious
2016-01-30T00:47:57Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T00:47:58Z fe[nl]ix: it's as if the authors wanted to copy Sphinx
2016-01-30T00:48:40Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:50:05Z jasom: sphinx does a lot more, and uses reST which I find slightly less pleasant than markdown for simple things (but more feature-complete for complex things)
2016-01-30T00:52:44Z fe[nl]ix: I used to think that too, until I started writing internal documentation
2016-01-30T00:52:52Z helio quit
2016-01-30T00:52:55Z fe[nl]ix: there's a move towards Markdown here
2016-01-30T00:53:01Z jasom: fe[nl]ix: which part do you disagree with now?
2016-01-30T00:53:12Z fe[nl]ix: and now I see how limited Markdown is
2016-01-30T00:53:17Z fe[nl]ix: I hate it profoundly
2016-01-30T00:55:10Z Colleen_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:55:37Z minion quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-30T00:55:40Z karswell` joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:55:40Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:56:07Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2016-01-30T00:56:13Z dew3y` joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:56:14Z jasom: Markdown is very limimted.  Perhaps I should have said "I like markdown better, until I need to do something Markdown can't do"
2016-01-30T00:56:35Z fe[nl]ix: :D
2016-01-30T00:56:54Z jasom: I need a webpage with a table of contents and some screenshots.  Markdown is sufficient for that
2016-01-30T00:56:59Z reb```` joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:57:05Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:57:28Z jasom: maybe I should make "reST flavored markdown" that is markdown with reST directives added in
2016-01-30T00:57:41Z Denommus` joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:57:44Z cyraxjoe_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:57:46Z SilentEcho joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:57:46Z frankS2_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:57:49Z ralt: markdown doesn't know how to do a table of contents though
2016-01-30T00:57:52Z yaewa joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:57:59Z nydel quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-30T00:58:04Z jasom: ralt: MkDocs does from markdown
2016-01-30T00:58:13Z jostein joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:58:43Z pvaneynd_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:11Z djh_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:16Z johs_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:17Z MBstream quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T00:59:18Z funnel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:30Z roscoe_t` joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:35Z Bike_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:37Z ssake_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:44Z ft_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:45Z lemoinem quit (Killed (hitchcock.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2016-01-30T00:59:47Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:47Z hratsimi1ah joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:47Z flip214_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:55Z Faed joined #lisp
2016-01-30T00:59:58Z zyoung joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:00:04Z warweasle: Is there a way to export dynamic (progv) local variables from a package for use in an event handler?
2016-01-30T01:00:12Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:00:31Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.)
2016-01-30T01:00:32Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T01:00:47Z danlentz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:01:33Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-30T01:02:06Z oskarth_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:02:50Z Davidbrcz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:02:51Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:03:00Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T01:03:02Z norfumpit_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:03:09Z roscoe_t` is now known as roscoe_tw`
2016-01-30T01:03:20Z Bike_: you don't export variables. you export symbols. you can export the symbols naming local variables, yes.
2016-01-30T01:03:46Z nyef_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:04:00Z _sjs_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:00Z zeroXzero quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:01Z Denommus quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:01Z Bike quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:47Z arescorpio quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:47Z eazar001 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:47Z moei quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:47Z BlueRavenGT quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z Whymind quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z josteink quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z reb`` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z karswell quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z trn quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z opus quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z ssake quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z NhanH quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z dew3y quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z nzambe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z newcup quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z joast quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z bcoburn quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z clop2 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z nyef quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z gniourf quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z norfumpit quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z Davidbrcz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z z0d quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z SilentEc1 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z hratsimihah quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z Colleen quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z zyoung_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z djh quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z roscoe_tw quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z funnel quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z Fade quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z cyraxjoe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z frankS2 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z danlentz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z gz_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z oskarth quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z pvaneynd quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z NaNDude quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z ft quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z vert2 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z Colleen_ is now known as Colleen
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z warweasle: Bike_: Hmm...I wonder why my (export doesn't work then.
2016-01-30T01:04:48Z warweasle: k?
2016-01-30T01:04:50Z ft_ is now known as ft
2016-01-30T01:04:50Z funnel_ is now known as funnel
2016-01-30T01:04:50Z zeroXzero joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:04:50Z roscoe_tw` is now known as roscoe_tw
2016-01-30T01:04:50Z Bike_: What does it look like and it what sense does it not work.
2016-01-30T01:05:04Z NhanH joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:05:11Z Whymind joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:05:17Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:05:37Z clop2 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:05:41Z danlentz_ is now known as danlentz
2016-01-30T01:05:48Z rneco quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T01:06:30Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:06:31Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:06:33Z nydel joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:06:41Z Denommus` is now known as Denommus
2016-01-30T01:06:51Z rneco joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:06:57Z vert2 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:07:22Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T01:07:31Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:08:17Z oskarth_ is now known as oskarth
2016-01-30T01:08:40Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:09:04Z warweasle: Bike_: I'm calling an event handler in cl-user from clinch. I'm using progv to create dynamic variables so I don't need to pass a bunch of variables. But my handler sees those symbols as internal and not external.
2016-01-30T01:09:41Z MBstream joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:09:47Z Bike_ is now known as Bike
2016-01-30T01:10:08Z NaNDude joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:10:08Z gz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:10:08Z gz_ quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T01:10:08Z gz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:10:14Z Bike: does cl-user USE clinch? probably not. just qualify the symbols.
2016-01-30T01:10:52Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T01:11:06Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:11:18Z frankS2_ is now known as frankS2
2016-01-30T01:11:42Z warweasle: Bike: ok.
2016-01-30T01:11:56Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:12:01Z over joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:12:56Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T01:14:28Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:14:36Z jeaye joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:21:58Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:26:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T01:31:35Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T01:31:54Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2016-01-30T01:32:10Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T01:32:11Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:32:14Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:32:43Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T01:34:13Z ryan_vw_ is now known as ryan_vw
2016-01-30T01:36:02Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:36:47Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-30T01:37:09Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-30T01:37:29Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T01:40:48Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T01:42:24Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T01:45:45Z jeaye quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-30T01:46:56Z trn joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:49:10Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T01:49:12Z jeaye joined #lisp
2016-01-30T01:50:26Z CharlesN quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T01:53:45Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-30T02:02:20Z setheus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T02:05:46Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:08:06Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:08:07Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:10:50Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T02:11:23Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:13:26Z joast joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:14:14Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T02:15:03Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:18:55Z digiorgi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T02:21:47Z warweasle quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T02:22:21Z andreh quit
2016-01-30T02:22:47Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:24:55Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T02:25:15Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T02:25:52Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:26:16Z nikki93 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T02:26:32Z karswell` is now known as karswell
2016-01-30T02:26:47Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:27:24Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-30T02:29:35Z aap quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T02:30:00Z aap joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:30:02Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T02:30:37Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:32:04Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T02:35:07Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:35:29Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T02:38:36Z anunnaki_ is now known as anunnaki
2016-01-30T02:43:31Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:44:11Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:48:16Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:49:03Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T02:49:18Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:53:54Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T02:54:37Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-30T02:55:26Z erased joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:00:24Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T03:02:20Z nisstyre joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:05:49Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T03:06:27Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T03:07:55Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T03:08:01Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:09:11Z rneco quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T03:09:43Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:09:49Z nisstyre quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T03:09:49Z nisstyre joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:10:31Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:11:12Z rneco joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:13:19Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:13:52Z euandreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T03:13:57Z replcated_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:14:58Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T03:17:14Z NeverDie_ is now known as NeverDie
2016-01-30T03:17:25Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:18:47Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-30T03:20:19Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:25:26Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T03:27:23Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:27:45Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T03:28:50Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:32:00Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-30T03:32:43Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:33:27Z w3pm quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-30T03:35:55Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T03:37:21Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:39:12Z w3pm joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:39:21Z w3pm quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-30T03:40:07Z w3pm joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:40:44Z w3pm quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-30T03:49:15Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T03:54:46Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-30T03:58:24Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-30T03:59:19Z hnagamin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T03:59:37Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:14:07Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:17:14Z bolichep quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-30T04:17:39Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:20:51Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T04:21:25Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T04:22:18Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T04:22:40Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:23:01Z dextertzu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T04:23:01Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:25:07Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T04:25:54Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:26:29Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T04:27:08Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-30T04:28:38Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:28:44Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-30T04:29:32Z White_Flame: m'orning
2016-01-30T04:29:45Z White_Flame tips his redhat
2016-01-30T04:30:17Z jasom: Top o' the morning to you
2016-01-30T04:30:54Z erased: g'day
2016-01-30T04:31:07Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T04:33:50Z Oddity quit
2016-01-30T04:34:11Z holycow: i feel like i'm in a futurama episode
2016-01-30T04:34:15Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:34:19Z holycow: Good neeEEws everyone!
2016-01-30T04:34:25Z holycow: o/
2016-01-30T04:34:33Z beach: erased: Are you new here?
2016-01-30T04:35:27Z beach: erased: I don't recognize your nick.  That's why I am asking.
2016-01-30T04:35:42Z erased: yeah
2016-01-30T04:35:45Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-30T04:37:23Z White_Flame: welcome
2016-01-30T04:37:56Z erased: Thanks
2016-01-30T04:38:25Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T04:41:55Z beach: I think today I will figure out how McCLIM decides whether a key-press event is to be interpreted as a just a modifier or as something to be transmitted to the application.  Perhaps this is part of the elusive definition of an "input method".
2016-01-30T04:42:55Z rneco quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T04:44:44Z White_Flame: it's sometimes useful to be able to read keystrokes from modifier keys.  VMWare's Ctrl-Alt to release the cursor, for instance
2016-01-30T04:45:22Z beach: Exactly.  Hence the "input method" idea.
2016-01-30T04:45:58Z beach: I just need to find the right abstraction for it.
2016-01-30T04:46:53Z beach: Er, make that "just" within quotation marks. :)
2016-01-30T04:51:06Z Harag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:52:58Z Oddity joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:53:17Z dextertzu joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:53:23Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T04:55:14Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:56:21Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-30T04:56:30Z knobo quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-30T04:57:27Z rtoym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T04:57:30Z je4i: beach: Is McCLIM available for MacOSX?
2016-01-30T04:57:35Z dextertzu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T04:58:06Z beach: I don't know.  I suspect it requires an X11 server.
2016-01-30T04:58:28Z je4i: ok, better gnu/linux
2016-01-30T04:58:36Z beach: Probably, yes.
2016-01-30T04:59:04Z beach: There used to be some kind of backend for MacOS, but I suspect it has bitrotted.
2016-01-30T05:00:26Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T05:00:48Z holycow: mcclim is really tiny
2016-01-30T05:00:59Z je4i: cliki says current release 2008, where do I find your actual work?
2016-01-30T05:01:00Z holycow: it was really surprising compared to other toolkits available out there
2016-01-30T05:01:28Z beach: je4i: https://github.com/robert-strandh/McCLIM
2016-01-30T05:01:33Z holycow: i found some notes in the source about some day separating out the hard coded design stuff into its own separate thing
2016-01-30T05:01:34Z Sucks quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T05:01:47Z beach: je4i: also available from Quicklisp if you just want to install and use.
2016-01-30T05:02:30Z holycow: beach: might it ever make sense to have mcclim have separating between the presentation and logic layers?  so that sytling would be done via a properly designed css like mechanism and one could deliver the interface and the logic separately?
2016-01-30T05:02:38Z beach: holycow: I haven't compared the size, but it might be due to the power of CLOS,
2016-01-30T05:02:56Z holycow: *nod8
2016-01-30T05:03:24Z beach: holycow: That separation already exists.
2016-01-30T05:03:35Z holycow: oh!
2016-01-30T05:03:50Z beach: holycow: the frame manager decides how things are shown.  The rest is just logic design.
2016-01-30T05:03:51Z holycow: i will need to put some more time in and dig further then
2016-01-30T05:04:18Z holycow: thank you for the heads up
2016-01-30T05:04:21Z beach: Sure.
2016-01-30T05:08:34Z beach: holycow: When you look at the size, what metric do you use?  Source code?  FASL/binary?
2016-01-30T05:08:45Z holycow: just source code download
2016-01-30T05:08:56Z beach: OK.
2016-01-30T05:09:18Z holycow: hard to compare a binaries
2016-01-30T05:09:29Z beach: Source too! :)
2016-01-30T05:09:37Z holycow: well ... yeah true
2016-01-30T05:09:38Z holycow: :)
2016-01-30T05:10:38Z beach: OK, McCLIM seems to be around 150kLOC, and that is including the CLIM listener, the inspector, the Drei editor, the Scigraph library, the ESA library and much more.
2016-01-30T05:10:45Z beach: So, yes, that's not so much.
2016-01-30T05:11:20Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T05:12:42Z holycow: well, the kloc includes quite a lot of bits and components.  from what i can tell, mcclim is really quite advanced in terms of the infrastructure already ported.
2016-01-30T05:12:50Z holycow: someone spent some time thinking about this
2016-01-30T05:13:03Z holycow: it's been a pleasure reading up on it
2016-01-30T05:14:07Z beach: Reading the CLIM II specification was how I really understood about object-oriented design in CLOS.
2016-01-30T05:16:40Z White_Flame: Reading the Genera documentation was how I really understood about CLIM
2016-01-30T05:16:58Z beach: That's interesting.
2016-01-30T05:17:15Z nullFxn joined #lisp
2016-01-30T05:17:41Z holycow: White_Flame: opengenera or something earlier?
2016-01-30T05:18:25Z White_Flame: I believe opengenera; basically all the stuff that's been leaked and come more into light in the last couple of years
2016-01-30T05:19:07Z holycow: will add that to my todo as well.  i don't know why i didn't think of that.
2016-01-30T05:19:45Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-30T05:20:54Z White_Flame: http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/symbolics/software/genera_8/
2016-01-30T05:21:41Z holycow: oh crap. wow thx.
2016-01-30T05:24:37Z beach: Nice!
2016-01-30T05:24:44Z holycow: yeah no kidding
2016-01-30T05:24:53Z holycow: i think i've ever only seen a few or these
2016-01-30T05:25:56Z White_Flame: go up 1 directory and there's more, though I think what's in open_genera/ is duplicated in the genera_8/ dir
2016-01-30T05:26:36Z holycow: niiiice
2016-01-30T05:30:27Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T05:32:17Z White_Flame: beach: regarding the size of your codebase, the 3600 technical summary says it has "over a half-million lines of system code accessible to the user".  150kloc could seem a bit bloated just for those parts ;)
2016-01-30T05:32:22Z holycow: that is an unbeleivably awesome site
2016-01-30T05:32:31Z holycow: that has some VERY important archival material ... imho anyway
2016-01-30T05:33:01Z dextertzu joined #lisp
2016-01-30T05:33:54Z beach: White_Flame: Yes, I am sure there is a lot of dead code in there.
2016-01-30T05:34:12Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-30T05:34:40Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T05:51:06Z loke__: Looking through those documents make me very sad that instead of releasing the code publicly while it was still somewhat current, it was buried in piles of copyrights until it became obsolete enough to be more or less useful even if it was released now.
2016-01-30T05:51:32Z holycow: loke__: agreed
2016-01-30T05:51:59Z White_Flame: and Symbolics is still technically around, licensing & supporting still-running installations afaiu
2016-01-30T05:52:03Z holycow: i would love to gather up all of th elisp machine software ever made
2016-01-30T05:52:05Z holycow: with source
2016-01-30T05:52:58Z holycow: White_Flame: they don't seem to respond all that regularly
2016-01-30T05:58:28Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T06:00:10Z je4i: These sources are from a completely different world, where every piece was sold for x.000$$.  People owning such resources tend to believe that putting it open source spoils everything.
2016-01-30T06:00:14Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T06:00:54Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T06:01:21Z protist joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:03:26Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:04:32Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T06:07:56Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:08:51Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T06:09:32Z jsgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T06:10:18Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T06:10:24Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T06:11:10Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:12:39Z jasom: I have decided I need to write a library to form-fill PDFs
2016-01-30T06:13:04Z jasom: there is exactly one linux command-line program that can do it, and it's built with gcj, which means installing it into my docker image adds 700MB of deps
2016-01-30T06:17:59Z je4i: insert forms into existing PDFs or creating them from scratch?
2016-01-30T06:18:03Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:19:24Z jasom: je4i: insert forms into existing PDFs
2016-01-30T06:21:41Z je4i: iirc PDF spec is about 1000 pages
2016-01-30T06:22:16Z je4i: might be complicated to insert forms
2016-01-30T06:22:30Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:23:04Z beach: jasom: That's a very good idea.
2016-01-30T06:23:27Z jasom: je4i: I was just going to copy whatever pdftk does.  I've already got a working PDF parser
2016-01-30T06:23:32Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T06:23:35Z jasom: now I just need to figure out how to write them
2016-01-30T06:25:06Z jasom: I need to update the readme for pdfparser, since it says it's "not quite useful yet" as I'm using it so clearly it's useful.  Just maybe not to anybody who isn't me
2016-01-30T06:25:16Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:25:42Z jasom: though I suppose I have this: https://github.com/jasom/pdfparse/blob/master/simple-device.lisp which will just dump the text from a pdf
2016-01-30T06:26:06Z jasom: which is the closest I have to an example
2016-01-30T06:26:39Z jasom: and one could just change any of the other methods to log their arguments to figure out what does what
2016-01-30T06:26:45Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T06:28:55Z je4i: interesting
2016-01-30T06:29:47Z je4i: did you look at cl-pdf?  quite a lot of stuff but hardly any documentation.
2016-01-30T06:30:53Z jasom: je4i: yeah, and the parser is not useful for documents over a few pages, as it loads all objects from the PDF into ram
2016-01-30T06:30:56Z dextertzu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T06:31:10Z jasom: though it might work for the smaller form I have to fill...
2016-01-30T06:31:20Z beach: Have you actually made some estimate of the memory use?
2016-01-30T06:33:08Z jasom: The PDF I needed to parse (different from the one I'm form filling) hit 32GB before I ran out of swap plus ram
2016-01-30T06:33:55Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:34:00Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-30T06:34:15Z beach: That sounds excessive to me.  Did you use a linked list of characters or something?
2016-01-30T06:34:45Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:35:31Z holycow quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T06:37:42Z jasom: I have no idea what they used
2016-01-30T06:37:56Z jasom: perhaps they generate uncompressed pixmaps of every image in the PDF?
2016-01-30T06:38:18Z jasom: I didn't write cl-pdf
2016-01-30T06:38:28Z beach: Yeah, there is *something* wrong with this picture.  Even a very large PDF should easily fit in RAM.
2016-01-30T06:38:42Z jasom: this is a very large pdf
2016-01-30T06:38:44Z jasom: ~80MB
2016-01-30T06:39:09Z jasom: anyway I tried cl-pdf:read-pdf-file on the form I want filled and it gave a parse error
2016-01-30T06:39:16Z beach: Well just thinking that an 80MB file would generate 32GB or memory seems very very wrong.
2016-01-30T06:39:34Z jasom: yup
2016-01-30T06:41:41Z beach: I am willing to bet that with a reasonable data structure, loading a PDF file into memory would not give more than a factor 100 blowup, and very likely much much less.
2016-01-30T06:42:48Z beach: I wonder how much combined human mental capacity is wasted by still thinking of RAM vs disk.
2016-01-30T06:43:18Z jasom: I can tell you as soon as I'm done swapping that information back into core
2016-01-30T06:44:47Z beach: Especially in the Common Lisp community, where available human resources are in extremely short supply, I think we need to start figuring out how to use computers to work for us, rather than the other way around.
2016-01-30T06:45:07Z beach: Sorry about the rant.
2016-01-30T06:45:40Z jasom: well large images are problematic with GC as well
2016-01-30T06:45:47Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-30T06:46:14Z beach: Images as in colored pixels?  They shouldn't be.  They contain no pointers to follow.
2016-01-30T06:46:31Z jasom: images as in the heap
2016-01-30T06:47:04Z beach: Again, I think we need to plan for using new GC algorithms that help us.
2016-01-30T06:47:56Z beach: I am not saying we need to implement them first in order to do something else.  Just that we should assume that those will exist when we need them, rather than spending time on workarounds.
2016-01-30T06:48:58Z beach: Maybe I should just be quiet.
2016-01-30T06:50:58Z jasom: The good news with GC algorithms is that you can usually trade space for time, and if we are assuming we've got the entire non-volatile storage to use for space, we are probably okay on space
2016-01-30T06:51:26Z beach: And I think we will have that in just a few years.
2016-01-30T06:52:44Z jasom: though people have an instinct against wasting resources that needs to be defeated; if you told someone that they need 3x as much disk space as they have stuff, they might balk
2016-01-30T06:52:53Z erased quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T06:53:49Z je4i: lets start this world from scratch.  and twist the plot a tiny little bit. when mccarthy proposed to include sexpr into algol 1960, we will agree (opposite to what happened)
2016-01-30T06:55:35Z beach: jasom: I am betting it will take up less of human endeavor to defeat that instinct than to write all the software so that it will use minimum amount of space.
2016-01-30T06:55:55Z beach: But I really should learn to be quiet.
2016-01-30T06:56:19Z jasom: beach: I think you're right, I just am disappointed that this world is so far away
2016-01-30T06:57:05Z beach: I am optimistic.  Many people here on #lisp are enlightened.  And many of the others can be influenced.
2016-01-30T06:57:24Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:57:28Z jasom: also, TIL that PDFs can embedd javascript that can perform various actions on various objects in the PDF
2016-01-30T06:59:00Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-30T06:59:29Z aeth: TIL that PDFs can embed Parenscript :o
2016-01-30T07:00:24Z jasom: but form-filling doesn't look *too* terrible; just load up all the objects opaquely, find the object representing the roots of the field tree, rewrite that one object and write the PDF out again with a new index
2016-01-30T07:00:28Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:02:49Z jasom: hmm, pdftk uses lowagie's PDF libraries... I didn't realize that
2016-01-30T07:03:33Z tclamb joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:04:56Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T07:08:36Z White_Flame: minion: memo for warweasle: The external use of the variable needs to know that it's declared special. You should use defvar to declare it, and just use LET to create the dynamic bindings.  Progv is useful when the names of the variables to bind are only known at runtime. If you just use progv on its own, the other code is unaware that that symbol names a special variable.
2016-01-30T07:08:36Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell warweasle when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-30T07:09:25Z z0d joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:09:25Z z0d quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T07:09:25Z z0d joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:11:14Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:13:41Z MBstream quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T07:22:36Z DeadTrickster is now known as warwasle
2016-01-30T07:22:37Z warwasle: wer
2016-01-30T07:22:48Z warwasle is now known as warweasle
2016-01-30T07:22:49Z warweasle: wer
2016-01-30T07:22:49Z minion: warweasle, memo from White_Flame: The external use of the variable needs to know that it's declared special. You should use defvar to declare it, and just use LET to create the dynamic bindings.  Progv is useful when the names of the variables to bind are only known at runtime. If you just use progv on its own, the other code is unaware that that symbol names a special variable.
2016-01-30T07:22:52Z warweasle: lol
2016-01-30T07:22:57Z warweasle is now known as DeadTrickster
2016-01-30T07:23:08Z yaewa quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2016-01-30T07:23:30Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:23:42Z White_Flame: minion: memo for warweasle: The external use of the variable needs to know that it's declared special. You should use defvar to declare it, and just use LET to create the dynamic bindings. Progv is useful when the names of the variables to bind are only known at runtime. If you just use progv on its own, the other code is unaware that that symbol names a special variable.
2016-01-30T07:23:42Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell warweasle when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-30T07:23:44Z White_Flame: >:-(
2016-01-30T07:23:59Z DeadTrickster: ~~~~~~~>
2016-01-30T07:24:27Z White_Flame: (that's not your other handle normally, is it?)
2016-01-30T07:24:39Z DeadTrickster: sure not
2016-01-30T07:29:22Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:30:55Z beach: Hello moore33.
2016-01-30T07:31:05Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:32:04Z moore33:  Hi beach!
2016-01-30T07:32:05Z supera joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:33:14Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T07:36:01Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:41:20Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T07:47:44Z dextertzu joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:48:19Z beach: moore33: Did you see that I finally got ESA-based McCLIM applications to work again, even for people who remap their CapsLock key?
2016-01-30T07:48:51Z beach: It is not perfect yet, but it is a vast improvement.
2016-01-30T07:49:29Z beach: Now I can start writing an ESA-based GUI for Second Climacs, which I hope will accelerate its development.
2016-01-30T07:49:31Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:49:53Z moore33: Beach: I saw the chat yesterday. What is "ESA?"
2016-01-30T07:50:31Z beach: "Emacs Style Application".  It is a library in McCLIM for writing applications with an Emacs-style command processor rather than the default CLIM one.
2016-01-30T07:50:48Z moore33: Ah, ok.
2016-01-30T07:51:41Z Xach__ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:52:07Z beach: Sorry, thought you knew about it.
2016-01-30T07:52:41Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-30T07:52:47Z moore33: beach: To refresh my memory about Clim3, you have extensive code there for generating characters and fonts?
2016-01-30T07:53:13Z moore33: beach: It's all coming back to me now...
2016-01-30T07:53:40Z beach: moore33: Yes, I think I included the stuff I wrote for Gshap into CLIM3.
2016-01-30T07:55:08Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-30T07:55:20Z beach: moore33: That is probably not where it belongs.
2016-01-30T07:55:48Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-30T07:58:49Z supera quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-30T07:59:36Z beach: moore33: But, since the only backend I have is a CLX frame buffer, I needed a way to draw anti-aliased glyphs.
2016-01-30T08:00:30Z beach: I would have used the Render extension, but I can't for my life understand the protocol specification, and the code in CLX for using Render is undocumented and probably not production quality.
2016-01-30T08:02:57Z moore33: I will soon need text for lpsg, just for basic GUI and performance info. I think it would be good in terms of our mutal efforts to use your code to create OpenGL textures. Then I have fonts, and you can see how I do it.
2016-01-30T08:03:48Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:08:26Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T08:08:45Z moore33: Biab
2016-01-30T08:10:07Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T08:10:56Z Guest14 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:11:16Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:14:00Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:14:06Z zeroXzero quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T08:14:09Z super joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:16:49Z beach: moore33: Sure, that sounds interesting.
2016-01-30T08:18:32Z moore33: Bbl,gotta run out to the shops.
2016-01-30T08:22:06Z mathrick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T08:22:37Z mathrick joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:23:03Z super is now known as supera
2016-01-30T08:25:24Z supera quit (Quit: Changing server)
2016-01-30T08:25:39Z super joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:28:23Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:28:29Z super quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-30T08:29:21Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:30:04Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:31:27Z supera joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:36:18Z supera quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T08:38:35Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:38:47Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:43:00Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T08:48:10Z jussx joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:48:43Z jussx: what's the difference between predicate LISTP and CONSP?
2016-01-30T08:51:12Z edgar-rft: (listp nil) => T while (consp nil) => NIL
2016-01-30T08:51:32Z Bike: (listp foo) = (or (null foo) (consp foo)).
2016-01-30T08:51:51Z Bike: since nil is an empty list, but not a cons, see.
2016-01-30T08:52:34Z jussx: ok thanks i understood
2016-01-30T08:55:14Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T08:56:10Z anunnaki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T08:59:15Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T08:59:16Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-30T08:59:26Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-30T09:05:31Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-30T09:10:22Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:11:20Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T09:13:06Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T09:15:31Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T09:16:35Z zadock joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:18:09Z vmonteco1 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:18:11Z vmonteco1: Hello!
2016-01-30T09:18:25Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:20:23Z beach: Hello vmonteco1.
2016-01-30T09:20:58Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:24:43Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:31:22Z jackdaniel: o/
2016-01-30T09:32:16Z beach: jackdaniel: Sorry for the wrong commit.  I updated my Quicklisp-installed libraries to get the new version of Bordeaux threads.
2016-01-30T09:32:35Z jackdaniel: it was recent change, I was confused at start as well :)
2016-01-30T09:36:42Z vmonteco quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T09:36:43Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:36:45Z vmonteco1 is now known as vmonteco
2016-01-30T09:40:19Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T09:42:03Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:42:15Z ipmonger_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T09:48:36Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:49:41Z Guest14 quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-30T09:49:41Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:51:06Z yauz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-30T09:51:45Z yauz joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:52:26Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T09:53:11Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:54:21Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:54:22Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T09:56:22Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T09:56:33Z H4ns quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T09:56:50Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-30T09:59:57Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:00:32Z H4ns joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:04:30Z Guest14 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:04:35Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:13:28Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T10:14:15Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T10:16:41Z eni_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:17:19Z eni_ is now known as eni
2016-01-30T10:17:45Z Support_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:18:10Z Support_ quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T10:19:44Z Guest14 quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-30T10:19:59Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:20:50Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T10:23:55Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:28:45Z wokko joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:30:26Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:31:37Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:32:39Z wokko quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T10:32:57Z wokko joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:32:57Z wokko quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-30T10:33:03Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:34:33Z wokko joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:35:36Z dextertzu quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T10:35:37Z wokko quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-30T10:35:55Z wokko joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:35:55Z wokko quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T10:35:55Z wokko joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:36:58Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:37:21Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:37:40Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T10:41:46Z dextertzu joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:43:19Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:43:30Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:45:00Z kushal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T10:47:36Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T10:52:28Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:52:43Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:52:56Z zadock quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T10:53:03Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T10:53:39Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:53:41Z quasus joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:56:47Z moei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T10:56:54Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-30T10:57:22Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-30T10:58:01Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T10:58:38Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:08:55Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:13:23Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-30T11:14:07Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T11:14:15Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T11:18:53Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:19:32Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:22:17Z beach: Major insight: Whereas the editor buffer may have different "hot spots" where items are inserted and deleted, this is typically not the case with the views.  A view generally displays an interval of the buffer.  Therefore a simple gap buffer should be sufficient for most views.
2016-01-30T11:23:13Z beach: A gap buffer is faster than a splay tree if locality is great, which is to be expected for the view.
2016-01-30T11:23:56Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T11:26:57Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:29:56Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T11:32:43Z splittist: beach: what is the 'gap' in a view?
2016-01-30T11:33:07Z beach: It would be located where new lines are frequently added or removed.
2016-01-30T11:36:15Z beach: Anyway, now I have doubts about the insight, because even items that are not visible in the view might influence how it is shown.  Inserting and deleting lines elsewhere will affect the size of the scroll bar if nothing else.
2016-01-30T11:37:36Z beach: splittist: A gap buffer is just a representation of an editable sequence.  The gap is located where an edit operation takes place.
2016-01-30T11:38:19Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:38:52Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:39:08Z digiorgi joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:42:18Z DeadTrickster: beach, what are you talking about?
2016-01-30T11:42:26Z DeadTrickster: are you writing some sort of editor?
2016-01-30T11:42:35Z beach: Yes, Second Climacs.
2016-01-30T11:42:44Z DeadTrickster: second, of course
2016-01-30T11:43:11Z DeadTrickster: is it usable?
2016-01-30T11:43:21Z beach: No.
2016-01-30T11:43:41Z beach: If it were, I wouldn't have to make all these design decisions. :)
2016-01-30T11:44:01Z DeadTrickster: :-)
2016-01-30T11:44:01Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:44:18Z DeadTrickster: regarding sicl - any actual implementation is using it?
2016-01-30T11:44:50Z beach: Clasp uses the Cleavir part of SICL for its main compiler.
2016-01-30T11:45:34Z DeadTrickster: yeah clasp, I really wanna try it
2016-01-30T11:45:52Z DeadTrickster: what about mcclim? is it not ready too?
2016-01-30T11:46:02Z DeadTrickster: do you have screenshots?
2016-01-30T11:46:05Z beach: McCLIM is ready.
2016-01-30T11:46:10Z beach: Not perfect, but very usable.
2016-01-30T11:46:33Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:46:54Z beach: DeadTrickster: No longer apparently.  The mcclim cliki somehow disappeared.
2016-01-30T11:48:02Z knicklux joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:48:09Z DeadTrickster: I must say acouple of screenshots for interface library would be good :-)
2016-01-30T11:48:42Z DeadTrickster: and one more questions - how you manage to commit/contribute every day?
2016-01-30T11:48:54Z beach: I agree.  And I tried to find someone who would tell me where the screen shots went.
2016-01-30T11:49:39Z DeadTrickster: I mean 420 days streak is impressive
2016-01-30T11:49:49Z beach: DeadTrickster: Small commits, I guess.
2016-01-30T11:49:52Z DeadTrickster: looks like you are actually Google secret AI
2016-01-30T11:49:58Z munksgaa1d quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T11:50:17Z DeadTrickster: beach, is it natural or on purpose, just curious
2016-01-30T11:50:21Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:50:21Z DeadTrickster: ?
2016-01-30T11:50:36Z beach: I always work.  It is in my nature.
2016-01-30T11:51:30Z DeadTrickster: well me too but I don't always have something for github
2016-01-30T11:52:02Z beach: Oh, I have literally tons of little things on the heap, waiting to be committed.
2016-01-30T11:52:29Z bogwonch quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-30T11:52:30Z beach: But most of them are so boring I have to do one or two per day, or I'll die of boredom.
2016-01-30T11:53:10Z DeadTrickster: nice, keep it going then )
2016-01-30T11:54:31Z beach: Well, I panicked a few weeks ago when I realized I am mortal and I might have more stuff to commit than the number of years I have left, so I started accelerating the pace a bit. :)
2016-01-30T11:54:39Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:54:46Z contrapunctus: beach: where exactly is Climacs hosted?
2016-01-30T11:54:59Z beach: contrapunctus: First or second?
2016-01-30T11:55:04Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T11:55:05Z beach: First I think is common-lisp.net.
2016-01-30T11:55:16Z contrapunctus: the first, yes
2016-01-30T11:55:23Z prohobo joined #lisp
2016-01-30T11:55:27Z beach: It is not even GITified.
2016-01-30T11:55:45Z contrapunctus: :(
2016-01-30T11:56:08Z beach: contrapunctus: I discovered that today.  I'll put in up on GitHub soon.
2016-01-30T11:59:26Z beach: contrapunctus: Second Climacs will be nicer in many ways.  The parser for Common Lisp will be a lot simpler, yet still closer to what the Common Lisp reader would do.
2016-01-30T11:59:46Z beach: contrapunctus: And it will be way more modular.
2016-01-30T12:00:04Z contrapunctus: interesting
2016-01-30T12:00:11Z beach: I already extracted the buffer abstraction (Cluffer) to a separate library.
2016-01-30T12:07:58Z munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T12:10:52Z prohobo quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-30T12:11:14Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T12:21:33Z prohobo joined #lisp
2016-01-30T12:21:39Z kushal joined #lisp
2016-01-30T12:32:08Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T12:32:35Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T12:33:46Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T12:35:40Z ccaffeini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T12:38:00Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T12:39:38Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-30T12:40:38Z artbv joined #lisp
2016-01-30T12:43:40Z papachan joined #lisp
2016-01-30T12:43:42Z ccaffeini joined #lisp
2016-01-30T12:44:43Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-30T12:46:37Z m0li quit (Quit: happy weekend)
2016-01-30T12:47:40Z dextertzu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T12:48:59Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-30T12:49:18Z contrapunctus: beach: would it be a lot of work, if one wanted to try implementing a (graphical) web browser in Climacs?
2016-01-30T12:54:20Z artbv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T12:55:00Z phoe_krk: contrapunctus: it's a hell of work to implement a HTML5/JS/CSS/DOM-compliant web browser from scratch *in general*.
2016-01-30T12:55:22Z jackdaniel: contrapunctus: I think you mean in McClim (?) Climacs is emacs-like editor
2016-01-30T12:55:31Z phoe_krk: hey jackdaniel
2016-01-30T12:55:49Z jackdaniel: hey
2016-01-30T12:56:17Z contrapunctus: phoe_krk: I know, but I meant - compared to trying to implement it in GNU Emacs...
2016-01-30T12:56:22Z contrapunctus: jackdaniel: no, Climacs
2016-01-30T12:56:57Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2016-01-30T12:57:58Z jackdaniel: uhm
2016-01-30T12:59:19Z dextertzu joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:00:25Z ccaffeini quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T13:02:04Z eni quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-30T13:03:58Z contrapunctus: jackdaniel: like GNU Emacs has EWW?
2016-01-30T13:04:22Z contrapunctus: IOW I'm wondering if the Climacs display engine is advanced enough to support a more modern browser.
2016-01-30T13:04:42Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:05:41Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:06:19Z ccaffeini joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:06:27Z vmonteco quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-30T13:09:11Z jackdaniel: contrapunctus: eww is pretty basic though, and I'd call it more textual with images then graphical
2016-01-30T13:09:17Z jackdaniel: climacs does handle images
2016-01-30T13:09:30Z jackdaniel: https://common-lisp.net/project/climacs/images/screenshots/jpegsinclimacs.png
2016-01-30T13:09:45Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-30T13:10:02Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T13:10:08Z contrapunctus: jackdaniel: I know, hence 'more modern browser'
2016-01-30T13:10:17Z contrapunctus: (than EWW)
2016-01-30T13:10:53Z lafollia joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:12:11Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T13:12:25Z Guest91845 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:14:44Z dreamaddict joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:15:16Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:15:56Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T13:17:20Z lafollia quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-30T13:18:37Z jackdaniel doesn't understand, how a "modern browser" with some graphical display correlates to Climacs
2016-01-30T13:18:54Z jackdaniel: climacs is an editor, potentially you could embed "browser" widget in it
2016-01-30T13:19:15Z jackdaniel: but how do you imagine the effect implementing it *in* climacs?
2016-01-30T13:19:25Z quasus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T13:20:46Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T13:22:37Z pullmeunder joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:27:10Z pullmeunder quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-30T13:29:07Z jackdaniel: maybe you think about something like conkeror? it has emacs-like bindings etc
2016-01-30T13:30:53Z contrapunctus: I suppose there are different ways to go about it.
2016-01-30T13:32:15Z pullmeunder joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:35:19Z bogwonch joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:36:21Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:40:30Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T13:40:50Z bogwonch quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T13:41:17Z ferada: i might be looking for the wrong name, but is there a syntax for cffi to specify single/multiple bit integers in c structs, like "int foo : 2"?
2016-01-30T13:43:03Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-30T13:44:02Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-30T13:47:06Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:49:47Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-30T13:50:38Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:52:20Z fu7mu4 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T13:52:28Z pullmeunder quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2016-01-30T13:57:33Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:02:10Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T14:04:51Z UtkarshRay quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-30T14:06:12Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:06:13Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T14:06:13Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:08:07Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T14:08:10Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:08:38Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-30T14:10:49Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:13:56Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:14:20Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:18:35Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T14:18:46Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:20:50Z quasus joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:23:56Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:24:14Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T14:28:17Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:33:04Z drforr1 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:34:20Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-30T14:36:10Z Howling joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:40:39Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-30T14:41:47Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:42:56Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:43:44Z neuri8 quit (Quit: L)
2016-01-30T14:44:30Z iskander quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-30T14:44:42Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:45:08Z digiorgi quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T14:48:21Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:48:34Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:49:38Z luis: Alas, no.
2016-01-30T14:49:58Z jussx quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T14:50:56Z luis: As a workaround, you can do the bitbashing yourself, I guess.
2016-01-30T14:51:51Z kenanb: I need a reliable way to save some class instances to a file and read them. I don't need full persistence with indexes etc. I cannot use metaclass solutions like prevalence libraries because I already use ContextL for all these classes, Also the nature of my program doesn't fit to external database solutions. I am thinking of a serialization library (binary or ASCII) maybe? Any recommendations?
2016-01-30T14:53:48Z kenanb: A persistence library based on files/snapshots etc is also ok as long as it doesn't rely on metaclasses
2016-01-30T14:54:18Z jackdaniel: kenanb: https://common-lisp.net/project/cl-store/
2016-01-30T14:54:34Z eni_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T14:54:47Z LiamH: luis: I don't have a strong opinion on the #+fsbv issue. I'll go along with whatever the consensus is. I use is in GSLL. The reason it's called "fsbv" and not something libffi-related is to allow for the possibility that CFFI could support a compiler that directly calls structure-by-value functions, without using libffi.
2016-01-30T14:54:52Z luis: You can create a metaclass that inherits from context and something else. (Not that a metaclass is required for serialisation...)
2016-01-30T14:54:55Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T14:55:30Z eni_ is now known as eni
2016-01-30T14:55:39Z luis: Can GSLL work without fsbv?
2016-01-30T14:56:44Z kenanb: jackdaniel: is that the defacto-ish library to use for serialization currently? I mean I already looked at all the libraries around, but there is not much information around their current state and reliability
2016-01-30T14:57:10Z LiamH: luis: Yes, in principle. It's only needed for a small minority of functions. However, there is an ASDF dependency on it.
2016-01-30T14:57:23Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T14:57:36Z jackdaniel: kenanb: afaik this one is stable and works on decent number of different implementations
2016-01-30T14:58:56Z LiamH: luis: So if you had an environment with libffi unavailable and didn't need those functions, you could remove the dependency on libffi, and still compile and run fine.
2016-01-30T15:00:15Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T15:01:13Z kenanb: dammit Edi's book is already coming handy, a google search resulted a page of the book, he recommends cl-store as well :)
2016-01-30T15:01:31Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T15:04:22Z LiamH: luis: I never resolved the hdf5-cffi in Debian issue I had. You mentioned that there was a pull request somewhere to fix it; do you have a link?
2016-01-30T15:05:08Z LiamH: The issue I'm talking about is  https://github.com/HDFGroup/hdf5-cffi/issues/61
2016-01-30T15:05:09Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:06:53Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:08:03Z artbv joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:11:15Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:15:54Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-30T15:16:59Z neuri8 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:17:17Z jeaye quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T15:18:27Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:19:37Z quasus joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:22:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T15:24:57Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:28:37Z fu7mu4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T15:28:58Z kenanb: jackdaniel: thank you, I think I'll go with cl-store
2016-01-30T15:35:58Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:36:58Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:41:07Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T15:41:21Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T15:41:29Z jackdaniel: kenanb: yw :) good luck
2016-01-30T15:42:21Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-30T15:42:24Z luis: LiamH: that issue seems different from what you described, but my memory is fuzzy.
2016-01-30T15:43:24Z cyraxjoe_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T15:43:46Z luis: LiamH: if the latest release does not work then there's no pending pr that'll help.
2016-01-30T15:45:06Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:45:07Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:47:28Z LiamH: luis: IIRC, the nut of the problem is this: HDF solves the path problem by using their own special "compiler" h5cc, instead of a normal cc. So if the groveler doesn't do the same, then it won't compile.
2016-01-30T15:49:15Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T15:54:46Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-30T15:55:24Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T16:01:00Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:01:22Z rneco joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:04:24Z Fleurety quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T16:05:11Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:07:29Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:08:22Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T16:11:25Z rneco quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-30T16:11:36Z rneco joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:12:11Z Fleurety quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T16:14:35Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-30T16:14:58Z flip214_ is now known as flip214
2016-01-30T16:15:08Z flip214 quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T16:15:09Z flip214 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:15:57Z rneco quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-30T16:16:18Z rneco joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:16:18Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T16:16:36Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:16:57Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:18:45Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:18:58Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T16:24:58Z kenanb: is any of the popular lisp implementations support something like having partial image dumps, and loading multiple partial dumps to memory
2016-01-30T16:25:09Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:25:25Z kenanb: AFAIK that was only supported in Lisp Machines
2016-01-30T16:26:59Z kenanb: so what I wonder is basically creating persistency of particular objects using images
2016-01-30T16:27:12Z jackdaniel: kenanb: with ecl you may build some modules as shared libraries or fasls, which may be attached to the another ecl image
2016-01-30T16:27:23Z jackdaniel: but it won't work for persistance
2016-01-30T16:27:25Z Ainieco joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:28:04Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:31:03Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T16:33:28Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:36:56Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:37:49Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:38:35Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:38:36Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T16:39:44Z papachan quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2016-01-30T16:40:57Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:43:50Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T16:44:04Z Fleurety quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-30T16:45:31Z ralt: jackdaniel: afaik, asdf provides ways to build shared libs et al... not sure how it applies to the scenario.
2016-01-30T16:45:55Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:45:57Z ralt: (just saying that it's not specific to ecl)
2016-01-30T16:46:45Z jackdaniel: ralt: it is specific to the KCL family, because they transplite to C
2016-01-30T16:46:56Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:46:56Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T16:48:14Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:50:26Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T16:53:35Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:54:05Z Fleurety quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-30T16:54:11Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-30T16:54:47Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:56:56Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:57:26Z prohobo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T16:57:44Z Fleurety quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-30T16:59:08Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T16:59:15Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T17:03:12Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T17:05:07Z Fleurety quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-30T17:05:47Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:06:06Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T17:06:07Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:08:55Z rtoym joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:09:20Z Fleurety quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-30T17:09:53Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:11:22Z IPmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:11:42Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:14:15Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T17:14:20Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T17:14:47Z luis: LiamH: so point the groveler at it
2016-01-30T17:15:23Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:16:20Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T17:17:02Z LiamH: luis: Can that be done in the grovel file?
2016-01-30T17:18:31Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:19:43Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T17:21:41Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:21:41Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T17:24:20Z p_l: kenanb: there was work that enabled something similar in SBCL
2016-01-30T17:25:41Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:25:45Z p_l: that said, LispMachines, at least from Symbolics, only did partial dumps for the purpose of overlay loading of mostly code (so you could make a "base" image and "base + NS" and boot into latter if you needed NS, and into former if you needed more memory)
2016-01-30T17:28:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:28:01Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T17:28:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:28:41Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:28:41Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T17:30:01Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:31:15Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T17:32:48Z Fleurety quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-30T17:34:17Z alex`` joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:38:17Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:42:35Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T17:43:31Z bolichep quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T17:45:03Z IPmonger quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.2 - http://znc.in)
2016-01-30T17:46:13Z IPmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:46:28Z wokko quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T17:51:09Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T17:51:55Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:56:45Z luis: LiamH: not really, but possibly an :around method in .asd file can do the trick and bind cffi-grovel:*cc* to h5cc
2016-01-30T17:57:56Z LiamH: luis: OK, but so far this fails for me: (setf cffi-toolchain:*cc* "/usr/bin/h5cc") followed by (ql:quickload "hdf5-cffi").
2016-01-30T17:58:18Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T17:58:20Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T17:59:13Z LiamH: It might be getting further though, it fails at the library loading stage now.
2016-01-30T18:01:46Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:02:19Z LiamH: luis: It's not clear to me how CFFI will open a library file based on what the *cc* compiler is. Can you explain?
2016-01-30T18:02:45Z LiamH: At that stage, the compiler isn't even being used, correct?
2016-01-30T18:02:50Z luis: Right.
2016-01-30T18:03:00Z luis: Where is the library?
2016-01-30T18:03:23Z LiamH: On Debian, it's in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/hdf5/serial/libhdf5.so
2016-01-30T18:03:47Z LiamH: That information is known by the h5cc shell script, but apparently by nothing else.
2016-01-30T18:04:33Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:05:10Z luis: So, you can load that directly, or you can adjust *foreign-library-directories*, or adjust LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
2016-01-30T18:06:34Z mdemont quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T18:07:05Z luis: I would argue that hfd5 is mispackaged in its so is not in the default path, but I may be missing something...
2016-01-30T18:07:12Z luis: s/in/if
2016-01-30T18:08:34Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:09:05Z LiamH: luis: I tend to agree. Perhaps this is worth filing a bug against Debian.
2016-01-30T18:09:19Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T18:09:35Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T18:09:41Z LiamH: So this does work for me, but it's not very portable: (setf cffi-toolchain:*cc* "/usr/bin/h5cc")  and (setf cffi:*foreign-library-directories* '("/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/hdf5/serial/"))
2016-01-30T18:14:33Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:14:47Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:15:21Z kenanb: p_l: I see, thank you.
2016-01-30T18:18:26Z alex`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T18:20:44Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-30T18:21:35Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:22:17Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T18:22:22Z shikhin is now known as dryoyleujiy
2016-01-30T18:22:35Z dryoyleujiy is now known as shikhin
2016-01-30T18:23:14Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:23:19Z shikhin is now known as dryoyleujiy
2016-01-30T18:23:34Z dryoyleujiy is now known as shikhin
2016-01-30T18:24:15Z shikhin is now known as driyoyleujiy
2016-01-30T18:24:27Z driyoyleujiy is now known as shikhin
2016-01-30T18:25:50Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:27:00Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-30T18:27:35Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T18:28:35Z heddwch is now known as heddwchele
2016-01-30T18:34:07Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T18:34:48Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:38:02Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:40:44Z iskander quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T18:40:50Z Howling quit (Quit: :tiuQ)
2016-01-30T18:44:08Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:44:09Z fe[nl]ix: luis: the .so symlinks are for development only, and aren't required to be on the linker path
2016-01-30T18:44:41Z luis: ah
2016-01-30T18:44:50Z fe[nl]ix: but only to be where pkg-config hdf5 --libs says
2016-01-30T18:45:02Z luis: So maybe libhdf5-dev is missing?
2016-01-30T18:45:07Z fe[nl]ix: and I see this in hdf5-serial.pc:
2016-01-30T18:45:10Z fe[nl]ix: Cflags: -I/usr/include/hdf5/serial
2016-01-30T18:45:10Z fe[nl]ix: Libs: -L/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/hdf5/serial -lhdf5
2016-01-30T18:45:29Z luis: bah, so pkg-config /does/ work for libhfd5
2016-01-30T18:45:44Z luis: LiamH: so the solution is to use pkg-config!
2016-01-30T18:45:47Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-30T18:45:54Z fe[nl]ix: IOW, everybody should use pkg-config nowadays on Linux/BSDs
2016-01-30T18:46:18Z fe[nl]ix: I'm not sure that homebrew manages pkg-config files correctly
2016-01-30T18:46:26Z luis: LiamH: the solution for grovelling, I mean
2016-01-30T18:46:58Z luis: LiamH: do you have libhdf5-dev installed?
2016-01-30T18:48:30Z CharlesN joined #lisp
2016-01-30T18:51:39Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T18:52:21Z kenanb left #lisp
2016-01-30T19:06:11Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-30T19:08:05Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:08:26Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:09:39Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:10:34Z neuri8 quit (Quit: L)
2016-01-30T19:12:01Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:13:02Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:15:05Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T19:16:28Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:18:26Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-30T19:19:10Z oleo_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T19:20:55Z Th30n quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T19:24:46Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:26:20Z CharlesN quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T19:26:53Z neuri8 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:29:15Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T19:29:46Z fiddlerwoaroof: How to make everyone on your team hate you: http://paste.lisp.org/+6K9V
2016-01-30T19:31:36Z Th30n joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:32:15Z fiddlerwoaroof: Oops, lisppaste breaks it.
2016-01-30T19:35:15Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T19:35:33Z johs_ is now known as johs
2016-01-30T19:36:01Z johs quit (Quit: .)
2016-01-30T19:36:08Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:36:20Z johs joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:37:42Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:38:05Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:38:40Z CharlesN joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:40:36Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:41:56Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-30T19:41:58Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T19:42:17Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:42:36Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-30T19:44:04Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:44:43Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:46:54Z PinealGlandOptic left #lisp
2016-01-30T19:54:05Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:55:23Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-30T19:56:31Z broken_clock joined #lisp
2016-01-30T19:56:44Z Kundry_Wag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T19:58:29Z nell joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:06:53Z Fleurety_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:09:30Z Fleurety quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T20:11:09Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:15:35Z LiamH: luis: yes
2016-01-30T20:16:00Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T20:16:40Z attila_lendvai has pushed a version of cffi/c2ffi to the PR that doesn't contain any pending issues he knows of
2016-01-30T20:18:10Z LiamH: So should I patch hdf5-cffi to use pkg-config?
2016-01-30T20:20:30Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T20:21:04Z Fleurety_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-30T20:22:59Z LiamH: Well, this doesn't work: (pkg-config-cflags "hdf5-serial" :optional t)
2016-01-30T20:23:10Z CharlesN: Hi, I'm trying to create a macro that creates a function of n parameters, I asked yesterday but I'm still stuck with this
2016-01-30T20:23:12Z CharlesN: http://paste.lisp.org/+6K9X
2016-01-30T20:23:24Z LiamH: It seems that h5cc is doing more than just setting a path.
2016-01-30T20:23:31Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:24:07Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:25:53Z LiamH: luis: Summary, pkg-config does not work
2016-01-30T20:26:38Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:28:24Z Fleurety quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T20:30:56Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T20:35:02Z |3b|: CharlesN: you still try to use the name of the function as a variable, as you can see from the error saying "undeclared free variable WORLD.GETBLOCK"
2016-01-30T20:35:21Z |3b|: warning rather, not error
2016-01-30T20:35:33Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-30T20:35:38Z |3b|: the error part happens when you try to actually use it
2016-01-30T20:36:43Z |3b|: so it did create a function, and it does take 3 parameters, but all it does is error because the code inside the function is broken
2016-01-30T20:37:00Z |3b|: and your formatting/whitespace is still hard to read
2016-01-30T20:40:34Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T20:41:25Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:41:33Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-30T20:41:41Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:42:23Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:43:17Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:46:06Z wvvu joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:46:08Z wvvu: hello
2016-01-30T20:46:19Z wvvu: is this lang suitable for gaming?
2016-01-30T20:46:54Z Th30n quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T20:47:32Z Fleurety quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T20:47:55Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T20:48:03Z wvvu: hello?
2016-01-30T20:48:18Z |3b|: probably
2016-01-30T20:48:32Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-30T20:48:36Z |3b|: depending on what you mean by suitable and gaming
2016-01-30T20:48:43Z |3b|: people develop games using common lisp
2016-01-30T20:48:56Z |3b|: people probably play games using common lisp
2016-01-30T20:49:02Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:50:44Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:50:54Z |3b|: it doesn't have as many pre-built libraries/engines as you might find in some other languages, and the available implementations might not match various properties of implementations of other languages (but might also be better in other properties)
2016-01-30T20:51:11Z edgar-rft: wwu: on #lispgames you'll find people developing games in Common Lisp
2016-01-30T20:53:13Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:54:05Z warweasle: edgar-rft: Those lost souls.
2016-01-30T20:54:05Z minion: warweasle, memo from White_Flame: The external use of the variable needs to know that it's declared special. You should use defvar to declare it, and just use LET to create the dynamic bindings. Progv is useful when the names of the variables to bind are only known at runtime. If you just use progv on its own, the other code is unaware that that symbol names a special variable.
2016-01-30T20:54:06Z please_help joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:54:12Z please_help left #lisp
2016-01-30T20:57:17Z wvvu: a 2d game
2016-01-30T20:57:21Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-30T20:59:06Z warweasle: wvvu: What's that?
2016-01-30T20:59:23Z wvvu: it's a 'not 3d game'
2016-01-30T20:59:34Z wvvu: so a 2d game
2016-01-30T20:59:43Z warweasle: wvvu: I walked in late so I don't have any context.
2016-01-30T20:59:49Z wvvu: since nobody came up with 1d game so far.
2016-01-30T21:00:04Z elimik31 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:00:13Z wvvu: warweasle: I was wondering whether lisp is suitable for a simple 2d game.
2016-01-30T21:00:32Z warweasle: wvvu: The closest I've seen is the "press space to win RPG."
2016-01-30T21:00:48Z warweasle: wvvu: Yes. But I'm biased. I use it for 3D games.
2016-01-30T21:01:13Z warweasle: wvvu: Definitely join us at #lispgames
2016-01-30T21:01:39Z wvvu: ok
2016-01-30T21:04:52Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-30T21:06:20Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:07:18Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:08:00Z z0d: does swank only listen on TCP sockets? i.e. no Unix domain sockets?
2016-01-30T21:10:06Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T21:10:55Z p_l: I think pipes as well?
2016-01-30T21:11:25Z neuri8 quit (Quit: L)
2016-01-30T21:12:44Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:12:48Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:12:55Z neuri8 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:13:12Z z0d: hmm. didn't find it. let's have another go at it
2016-01-30T21:13:36Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:15:21Z s00pcan quit (Read error: No route to host)
2016-01-30T21:15:31Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:15:51Z p_l: a lot might depend on the implementation
2016-01-30T21:16:37Z Xach__ quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T21:16:38Z Xach__ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:17:00Z Xach__ is now known as Xach
2016-01-30T21:17:17Z k4rtik quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-30T21:17:30Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:18:24Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:18:26Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:19:03Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:19:29Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:20:15Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:20:27Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:21:39Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:21:46Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:22:58Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:23:19Z ggole quit
2016-01-30T21:23:53Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:24:00Z z0d: p_l: I might be wrong, but i only see TCP in the source
2016-01-30T21:24:26Z z0d: and it binds to *loopback-interface*
2016-01-30T21:24:43Z antoszka: I don't think any other sockets are implemented.
2016-01-30T21:25:36Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:26:35Z z0d: I wanted to separete Emacs and SBCL to their own containers, but they can't communicate, unless 1. I hack swank.lisp 2. do some other port forward trick
2016-01-30T21:27:13Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:29:06Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T21:29:37Z luis: LiamH: oh well, set *cc* then. :-/
2016-01-30T21:29:47Z luis: bind, rather.
2016-01-30T21:30:30Z LiamH: luis: Yes, I guess that's the only way. I'll look into the ASDF route.
2016-01-30T21:30:34Z attila_lendvai: z0d: there's a PR for unix sockets
2016-01-30T21:30:46Z z0d: attila_lendvai: PR?
2016-01-30T21:30:53Z attila_lendvai: z0d: pull request
2016-01-30T21:31:08Z z0d: ah
2016-01-30T21:31:20Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T21:31:56Z neuri8 quit (Quit: L)
2016-01-30T21:32:18Z z0d: attila_lendvai: thanks, found it
2016-01-30T21:33:38Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-30T21:33:59Z mathrick joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:35:32Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:36:12Z wokko joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:36:12Z wokko quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T21:36:12Z wokko joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:37:54Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:38:55Z meiji11 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:41:14Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-30T21:42:48Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:49:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T21:51:36Z j4cknewt joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:51:57Z Ainieco quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-30T21:52:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:52:15Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T21:52:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-30T21:54:41Z j4cknewt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:56:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T21:56:35Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-30T21:57:01Z helio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T21:58:58Z heddwchele is now known as heddwch
2016-01-30T22:01:09Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:09:26Z Faed quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T22:11:15Z j_king quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T22:11:34Z Fade joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:11:37Z j_king joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:13:04Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:13:04Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T22:13:04Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:14:15Z Davidbrcz_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T22:16:20Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:17:19Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:18:36Z munge joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:20:18Z danlentz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:20:26Z n_blownapart joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:20:31Z danlentz_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-30T22:20:32Z n_blownapart: hi this is from little schemer. if possible, please explain lines 22 and 28-30 in the context of this paste. (other solutions confuse me). I am confused by these single-clause statements and the choice of their placement. thanks a lot.   https://www.refheap.com/114268
2016-01-30T22:21:21Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-30T22:21:44Z |3b|: n_blownapart: might have better luck in #scheme
2016-01-30T22:22:31Z phoe_krk: Line 22 needs to be interpreted in the context of the two previous ones, that's a hint.
2016-01-30T22:22:57Z phoe_krk: 28-30 as well.
2016-01-30T22:23:01Z |3b|: but generally, lisp doesn't care about linefeeds, so those lines are no different from the surrounding ones
2016-01-30T22:23:20Z |3b|: or newlines, or whatever character you are using
2016-01-30T22:23:44Z wuuuka joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:23:55Z n_blownapart: thanks |3b| phoe_krk
2016-01-30T22:24:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T22:24:24Z n_blownapart: |3b| sorry were your last two posts directed to me?
2016-01-30T22:25:00Z |3b|: yes
2016-01-30T22:25:27Z |3b| may have misinterpeted the question though
2016-01-30T22:25:42Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-30T22:25:58Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:25:58Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-30T22:25:58Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:27:52Z je4i: n_blownapart: what is function eqlist supposed to do?
2016-01-30T22:28:47Z phoe_krk: clhs eqlist
2016-01-30T22:28:48Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for eqlist.
2016-01-30T22:28:58Z phoe_krk: oh, wait, whoops, sorry.
2016-01-30T22:29:44Z wuuuka: why the most of software written not in Lisp?
2016-01-30T22:29:50Z je4i: this is not cl. racket/scheme
2016-01-30T22:31:57Z n_blownapart: je4i: thanks so much one moment please
2016-01-30T22:33:03Z n_blownapart: je4i: ok thanks. later
2016-01-30T22:33:30Z PuercoPop: contrapunctus: fwiw you don't have to write a browser from scratch in CL, there is the Clozure Web Browser  https://common-lisp.net/project/closure/. It still is far from complete but certainly a headstart. (It uses McCLIM)
2016-01-30T22:33:37Z phoe_krk: wuuuka: why the most of software written not in C++?
2016-01-30T22:34:06Z phoe_krk: wuuuka: why the most of software written not in Smalltalk?
2016-01-30T22:34:19Z phoe_krk: wuuuka: why the most of software written not in <insert your language here>?
2016-01-30T22:35:31Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: all browsers except ugly lynx or links or emacs' eww written in c++. what written in lisp?
2016-01-30T22:35:41Z w3pm joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:36:19Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: smalltalk is too slow
2016-01-30T22:36:39Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: what language i could insert also?
2016-01-30T22:37:01Z phoe_krk: wuuuka: what's your point?
2016-01-30T22:37:43Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: I don't know why the Lisp is not used to write real software
2016-01-30T22:37:57Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: doom?
2016-01-30T22:38:31Z phoe_krk: wuuuka: Doom isn't written in Lisp
2016-01-30T22:38:59Z phoe_krk: also it is used to write the how-you-called-it "real software"
2016-01-30T22:39:28Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: do you know what  "doom" is mean? It not only a stupid game with monters
2016-01-30T22:39:42Z wuuuka: monsters
2016-01-30T22:40:07Z phoe_krk: I don't get you.
2016-01-30T22:40:48Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: why Lisp is doomed to not be used to write real software?
2016-01-30T22:41:15Z White_Flame: because your definition of "real" is too limited to things you're specifically familiar with
2016-01-30T22:41:54Z william3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Common_Lisp_software
2016-01-30T22:42:27Z cxpp joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:42:55Z william3: Do any of you use lisp at work?
2016-01-30T22:43:18Z wuuuka: real software - useful software for people - example web browser, web server (ready for wild internet, like nginx), dbms (ready for high loads like postgres) etc
2016-01-30T22:44:16Z |3b|: wuuuka: if not being used enough is a problem for you, why are you here instead of ##c?
2016-01-30T22:44:24Z william3: ^^
2016-01-30T22:44:26Z phoe_krk: want to boost your ego about how your language of choice is better than Lisp?
2016-01-30T22:44:33Z |3b|: the usage of any language is mostly a social problem rather than technical
2016-01-30T22:44:45Z phoe_krk: ^
2016-01-30T22:44:56Z |3b|: and one that won't be changed by being the Nth person to come here and ask about it
2016-01-30T22:45:12Z phoe_krk: it's easier for corporations to have 10 people writing in Java than 1 person writing in Lisp
2016-01-30T22:45:16Z |3b|: (and that is a large N, so even if you are trolling, it isn't a very creatine one)
2016-01-30T22:45:23Z |3b|: *creative
2016-01-30T22:45:50Z phoe_krk: because the 10 people are expendable and replacable and Lisp hackers are rare because people are too scared and put off to learn Lisp.
2016-01-30T22:46:06Z phoe_krk: wuuuka: oh, I got an answer for you.
2016-01-30T22:46:12Z phoe_krk: learn Lisp properly and see for yourself.
2016-01-30T22:46:30Z phoe_krk: I'm off to watch anime now and be a total nerd like Dr Alphys, see you.
2016-01-30T22:46:44Z phoe_krk: also ##c is over there, indeed. ------>
2016-01-30T22:46:44Z wuuuka: |3b|: it's not my problem, I like Lisp. I just asking, because all around is C and C++
2016-01-30T22:47:04Z phoe_krk: wuuuka: that's a sociological problem, actually.
2016-01-30T22:47:23Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: why?
2016-01-30T22:47:36Z phoe_krk: C/C++/Java is actively promoted by everyone.
2016-01-30T22:47:39Z phoe_krk: while Lisp isn't.
2016-01-30T22:47:43Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: why 99% of people prefer not to write in Lisp?
2016-01-30T22:47:45Z je4i: if the best language would be the most used, vba would win
2016-01-30T22:47:55Z phoe_krk: vba?
2016-01-30T22:48:01Z william3: Java
2016-01-30T22:48:07Z phoe_krk: wuuuka: your question is put wrong
2016-01-30T22:48:07Z william3: Or Javascript
2016-01-30T22:48:10Z je4i: visual basic
2016-01-30T22:48:15Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T22:48:24Z phoe_krk: it's not like everyone has a question "write in lisp or not write in lisp" and they answer no.
2016-01-30T22:48:29Z phoe_krk: usually it's not even on people's minds.
2016-01-30T22:49:03Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T22:49:03Z wuuuka: let me explain
2016-01-30T22:49:52Z White_Flame: william3: I use Lisp for work at my company, as well as contract through my company to provide Lisp development services to a client.  I'm recursing in my Lisp work
2016-01-30T22:49:59Z |3b|: wuuuka: network effects is a large part, also people making decisions based on things other than technical details, or having different priorities even when they do consider technical aspects
2016-01-30T22:50:01Z william3: That's awesome
2016-01-30T22:51:26Z eni quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T22:51:51Z White_Flame: wuuuka: Here's a similar discussion around OCaml instead of Lisp: https://vimeo.com/153042584
2016-01-30T22:52:31Z White_Flame: but good points about building a company around away from the popular languages
2016-01-30T22:52:39Z attila_lendvai: let me ask another, seemingly irrelevant question: why is almost everyone still using a super unergonomic keyboard layout? where the keys are arranged so that the mechanical bars (long gone) have enough space, and that frequent letter pairs are hard to press quickly, so that the hammers don't get stuck?
2016-01-30T22:52:50Z attila_lendvai: *and* keep on teaching this to each new generation...
2016-01-30T22:52:58Z helio quit
2016-01-30T22:53:08Z White_Flame: attila_lendvai: same reason people use C-style programming paradigms: inertia
2016-01-30T22:55:43Z wuuuka: folks, if lispers is so super smart and hacky, why there is no http server like nginx in lisp, why there is no dbms like postgres in lisp, or firewall, or browser?
2016-01-30T22:55:58Z phoe_krk: uh
2016-01-30T22:56:11Z phoe_krk: because there's little need for these?
2016-01-30T22:56:26Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T22:56:33Z phoe_krk: the market is already pretty full
2016-01-30T22:56:51Z phoe_krk: I'm writing an application in Lisp for where there is an empty spot for example
2016-01-30T22:57:04Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: market full? the lisp is the oldest language
2016-01-30T22:57:17Z wuuuka: phoe_krk: from 1953
2016-01-30T22:57:22Z wuuuka: or 58
2016-01-30T22:57:31Z william3: Trolling?
2016-01-30T22:57:34Z wuuuka: no
2016-01-30T22:57:38Z wuuuka: true
2016-01-30T22:57:52Z william3: We can troll with the truth :)
2016-01-30T22:58:05Z wuuuka: trolling than
2016-01-30T22:58:13Z william3: I'd hypothesise the language hasn't had the marketing
2016-01-30T22:58:42Z william3: Thinking of the backing of new tools that are the rage on the block
2016-01-30T22:58:51Z william3: They get so much marketing it is crazy
2016-01-30T22:59:00Z warweasle: william3: I don't think most people understand lisp's advantages. It's difficult to explain and they never get past the syntax...or lack of one.
2016-01-30T22:59:11Z william3: I reckon that's likely true
2016-01-30T22:59:30Z wuuuka: warweasle: the cool stories about macros?
2016-01-30T22:59:36Z wuuuka: yes, macros are cool
2016-01-30T22:59:56Z warweasle: wuuuka: Well, to be fair, Casting Spels in lisp likely hurt us.
2016-01-30T23:00:04Z wuuuka: but it's not possible to create effictive software without pointers on the current hardware
2016-01-30T23:00:31Z william3: I can't comment really. I'm just reading the introduction to PCL
2016-01-30T23:00:40Z warweasle: wuuuka: Programmer's can't be trusted with pointers. Haven't you ever used Java or ADA?
2016-01-30T23:00:41Z william3: I came here because Norvig recommended the language
2016-01-30T23:00:52Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:01:04Z william3: For me I want to stretch the way I think about programming
2016-01-30T23:01:22Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:01:26Z wuuuka: lisp is good for that
2016-01-30T23:01:30Z william3: http://norvig.com/21-days.html
2016-01-30T23:01:37Z warweasle: william3: This is the red pill. If you take the blue pill, you will wake up and remember whatever you want about lisp. But if you take the red pill, william3, we'll show you how deep the rabbit hole goes...
2016-01-30T23:01:48Z william3: :D
2016-01-30T23:02:01Z wuuuka: but for creating real software you need really good compiler/environment
2016-01-30T23:02:30Z White_Flame: wuuuka: Java doesn't have pointers either, yet it's a massively used language
2016-01-30T23:02:40Z White_Flame: nor does Python, or most modern languages
2016-01-30T23:03:11Z White_Flame: and Lisp's compiler/environment surpasses other languages
2016-01-30T23:03:17Z White_Flame: so yeah, sounds trollish
2016-01-30T23:03:22Z warweasle: White_Flame: And ADA! We can't remember the blockbuster programming language ADA!
2016-01-30T23:03:34Z White_Flame: once you pull out the "but teh compilarz!" tripe
2016-01-30T23:03:39Z warweasle: Although there are ideas I would like to use.
2016-01-30T23:03:43Z warweasle: from ADA.
2016-01-30T23:04:18Z w3pm quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-30T23:04:30Z wuuuka: White_Flame: because first JVM was developed by huge company - Sun and available for free. But lisp compilers was the problem - commercial are too expensive, free - too buggy
2016-01-30T23:04:51Z White_Flame: go away with the "buggy" crap
2016-01-30T23:04:51Z TMA: wuuuka: while you have pointers in C, you spend most of the time avoiding to use them indiscriminately while programming
2016-01-30T23:05:13Z White_Flame: but do you know _why_ Lisp was big and expensive?  Because there was a _market_ for it that was willing to pay tons for the benefits Lisp brought
2016-01-30T23:05:17Z danlentz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:05:23Z White_Flame: now Lisp is freely available to anybody, with commercial support if you want it
2016-01-30T23:05:51Z quasus` joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:06:06Z wuuuka: White_Flame: huh? who needs commercial lisp by cost of thousand bucks?
2016-01-30T23:06:08Z wuuuka: lol
2016-01-30T23:06:28Z White_Flame: I'd suggest go reading  & informing yourself before you continue arguing something you really don't know anything about
2016-01-30T23:06:41Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T23:06:47Z ipmonger_ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:06:49Z wuuuka: White_Flame: do you know the cost of Lispworks?
2016-01-30T23:06:56Z White_Flame: yes
2016-01-30T23:06:58Z wuuuka: White_Flame: or ACL
2016-01-30T23:07:00Z White_Flame: it's not for you
2016-01-30T23:07:15Z White_Flame: to you, than means "lol, why would anybody want it?" which is a ridiculous leap
2016-01-30T23:07:23Z White_Flame: because other people have real needs that you're not involved in
2016-01-30T23:07:23Z clop3 joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:07:27Z TMA: wuuuka: do you know the price of an enterprise windows server license?
2016-01-30T23:07:44Z Whymind quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-30T23:07:49Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:07:54Z wuuuka: TMA: but I'm on Linux - it works just fine
2016-01-30T23:08:06Z wuuuka: TMA: written not in Lisp, btw
2016-01-30T23:08:26Z White_Flame: except that Guile is the official scripting language of the GNU project, dontchaknow?
2016-01-30T23:08:47Z TMA: wuuuka: yet there are still others wanting to buy it despite linux being available
2016-01-30T23:08:52Z White_Flame: (of the embeddable style, that is)
2016-01-30T23:10:00Z norfumpit joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:10:15Z aeth: TMA: I think a more accurate comparison to Linux is commercial Unixes, and they're basically dead now.
2016-01-30T23:10:24Z aeth: Windows is too different of an OS.
2016-01-30T23:10:27Z wuuuka: TMA: yes, but Linux is real alternative for Windows -- it has huge community of developers and huge sponsors
2016-01-30T23:10:41Z danlentz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:10:41Z norfumpit_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:11:07Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z danlentz_ is now known as danlentz
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z clop2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z roscoe_tw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z wuuuka: TMA: is any free lisp impl has it?
2016-01-30T23:11:08Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:11:12Z luis: attila_lendvai: I'm happy with qwerty on my kinesis. :)
2016-01-30T23:12:55Z luis: Sucks that it doesn't support USB >= 2.0 though
2016-01-30T23:13:07Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:13:32Z attila_lendvai: luis: yeah, the labels... they are whatever. but the physical buttons! they are finally in a matrix like layout! jokes aside, I type with much fewer mistakes since I switched to kinesis, and all emacs-pain is gone...
2016-01-30T23:13:48Z luis: Or is it >= 3.0
2016-01-30T23:14:50Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T23:14:52Z attila_lendvai: its implementation sucks in general. it's loud, and if you don't touch-type then it's rather uncomfortable. I had to install rubber pads at the back of the keys, but it's still loud...
2016-01-30T23:15:46Z attila_lendvai: and my function keys are gone, hardly work anymore. the others also died, but they have sent me the two replacement key beds for free! great support at least!
2016-01-30T23:16:05Z White_Flame: wuuuka: any programming language is a real alternative to any other.  It's obvious you're coming in with strange preconceived notions, and that's not very useful
2016-01-30T23:16:08Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:16:27Z ipmonger_ is now known as IPmonger
2016-01-30T23:17:19Z luis: attila_lendvai: yeah, the hardware is a bit fragile.
2016-01-30T23:17:20Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:17:21Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:18:20Z luis: still, best keyboard I've used. (We're talking about the Advantage, right?)
2016-01-30T23:18:35Z attila_lendvai: luis: yes, and I agree
2016-01-30T23:19:27Z attila_lendvai: it took me a week to get back to 100% speed and accuracy on the kinesis, and then continued the improvement without any directed practice. first two days were horribly annoying though...
2016-01-30T23:20:09Z luis: I remember you took yours to the SBCL10 workshop to use with your laptop. I'm not /that/ attached to it. I only use it on my desktop PC at work.
2016-01-30T23:20:28Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T23:20:37Z luis: Heh, I used typeracer.com to practice and won a t-shirt for "best improvement of the year".
2016-01-30T23:20:58Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T23:21:28Z wuuuka quit (Quit: Page closed)
2016-01-30T23:22:12Z attila_lendvai: I can also survive on the laptop keyboard, but it gets rather annoying after a couple of hours
2016-01-30T23:22:41Z xrash quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-30T23:22:44Z je4i quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:22:49Z p_l: aeth: commercial unices aren't dead, though - especially if you count all systems that are SUS compliant
2016-01-30T23:22:50Z attila_lendvai: plus my backpack is just the perfect size for the laptop + the kinesis, it's just calling for both... :)
2016-01-30T23:23:12Z luis: attila_lendvai: see slide #2 :P http://www.slideshare.net/typeracer/typeracer-top-10-most-improved-typists-of-2009-2863197
2016-01-30T23:23:16Z Kundry_Wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:23:50Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:24:05Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:24:15Z attila_lendvai: luis: I guess they had no clue about the keyboard... :)
2016-01-30T23:25:06Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:25:11Z Kundry_Wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T23:25:37Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:26:31Z attila_lendvai: I'm probably not typing with 80 WPM though
2016-01-30T23:27:02Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:27:40Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:27:56Z elderK joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:27:57Z elderK quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-30T23:29:42Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-30T23:30:37Z attila_lendvai goes bedwards
2016-01-30T23:31:20Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T23:32:55Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:33:15Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:35:21Z kundry_wag joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:35:57Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T23:39:07Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:40:36Z Fleurety quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-30T23:41:01Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T23:41:38Z moore33 quit (Quit: Bye)
2016-01-30T23:41:44Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:42:45Z n_blownapart quit
2016-01-30T23:43:03Z kundry_wag: Anyone using slime-hyperspec-lookup with local docs? I download them on OSX with homebrew, used what it recommended (http://pastebin.com/raw/Mir6v2BR) but it still opens on a browser
2016-01-30T23:43:24Z artbv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:43:48Z kundry_wag: downloaded*
2016-01-30T23:45:57Z |3b|: those paths are correct?
2016-01-30T23:46:31Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-30T23:47:28Z kundry_wag: |3b|: Yes
2016-01-30T23:47:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:47:59Z |3b|: actually, that looks like it shouldn't change whether it opens a browser, just what it opens in the browser
2016-01-30T23:49:59Z z0d: I haven't used it in quite a while, but it used to always open a browser
2016-01-30T23:50:07Z z0d: but you can change which one
2016-01-30T23:50:19Z kundry_wag: |3b|: Wow, that's true.
2016-01-30T23:50:59Z kundry_wag: I hadn't realised that because my firefox is like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/trak3drh5aeowcf/Screenshot%202016-01-30%2021.50.41.png?dl=0 :P
2016-01-30T23:52:50Z kundry_wag: Thanks.
2016-01-30T23:53:02Z tippenein quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-30T23:54:18Z dreamaddict: ideally, when writing code in Lisp that is supposed to become an executable, none of the package managing aspects of it (ql, asdf) will have to matter to whoever is running the executable...?
2016-01-30T23:54:58Z dreamaddict: this I am not sure of, in C I understand the relationship between outside code and the executable...it seems blurrier in some languages (have to include/install certain DLLs), and I am not sure how it works in Lisp
2016-01-30T23:55:20Z z0d: I never saw many executables
2016-01-30T23:55:27Z z0d: for programs written in Lisp
2016-01-30T23:55:42Z tippenein joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:55:59Z z0d: usually you ship the code either in the Lisp image or next to it
2016-01-30T23:56:00Z dreamaddict: so you would normally...distribute the REPL/Lisp installation as part of your package?
2016-01-30T23:56:20Z z0d: not your full IDE, but the whole Lisp
2016-01-30T23:56:23Z dreamaddict: apparently there is an option to make an executable bundle out of code
2016-01-30T23:56:35Z z0d: depends on the implementation
2016-01-30T23:56:47Z z0d: but saving an image is not the same as an executable
2016-01-30T23:59:01Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-30T23:59:04Z dreamaddict: well I'd like to think that I could ship an executable just like (most) other languages
2016-01-30T23:59:38Z dreamaddict: because for all that no one complains about installing JVM, it looks clunky to install yet another runtime (Lisp) to run an app
2016-01-31T00:02:48Z dreamaddict: well...how is a Lisp app usually shipped?
2016-01-31T00:03:37Z dreamaddict: I'm making a small widget that I want to send to my friend who knows nothing of Lisp, and in most languages I'd send him an .exe file
2016-01-31T00:04:38Z |3b|: most implementations can ship executables, but they usually contain the whole implementation
2016-01-31T00:04:50Z dreamaddict: that's what I've seen
2016-01-31T00:04:56Z |3b|: and at that point, ql and asdf don't really matter, just any external C libs you depend on
2016-01-31T00:05:10Z dreamaddict: ah...the external C libs don't get "compiled in"
2016-01-31T00:06:14Z |3b|: right, normally you just use dynamic libs (but the same is true in C for lots of libs, since you don't want to have to recompile for a security fix in a lib or whatever, or even have to know about the security fixes in the lib, thats the OS job for common libs)
2016-01-31T00:06:45Z tippenein quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T00:06:47Z dreamaddict: the usual thing I hear is "50MB Hello World", which makes me think, there isn't anything that scans at a fine level exactly what code is needed to do something, and then bundle all of that code, fully compiled, into a file that is just big enough?
2016-01-31T00:06:58Z |3b|: though if you really want to, you might be able to build a custom image with extra C libs statically linked
2016-01-31T00:07:12Z Bike: dreamaddict: some of the commercial implementations can do that.
2016-01-31T00:07:44Z dreamaddict: the thing that does that is called a..."tree shaker"?
2016-01-31T00:07:50Z |3b|: it isn't always as little as you might expect on implementations that weren't designed for that (in particular sbcl since you mentioned 50mb)
2016-01-31T00:08:17Z |3b|: for example it uses the compiler at runtime in its CLOS implementation, so you probably need pretty much the whole thing anyway
2016-01-31T00:08:36Z cxpp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T00:08:52Z antonv joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:09:08Z |3b|: theoretically it could be modified to have a lower minimum requirement, but that hasn't been enough of a priority for any of the active developers or people who would fund development
2016-01-31T00:09:08Z dreamaddict: well in this case, it doesn't matter if I am just giving a copy of it to my friend
2016-01-31T00:09:37Z |3b|: adding compression was good enough for the extent active devs cared
2016-01-31T00:09:40Z Bike: heh, lw's dump has so many parameters there's a separate index for them http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw70/DV/html/delivery-24.htm#pgfId-90015
2016-01-31T00:09:44Z dreamaddict: it seems like a bit of a stumbling block for people who would want to use Lisp to make .exe files like they would in C++/JS/whatever
2016-01-31T00:09:48Z |3b|: and some people care enough to improve the compression a bit, but that's it
2016-01-31T00:10:11Z Bike: dreamaddict: they seem fine with sending me 5 MB webpages for a few paragraphs of essay, so i think they'll be okay.
2016-01-31T00:10:12Z |3b|: sure, lots of us would like the situation to be better, but not enough to do it or fund it
2016-01-31T00:10:38Z dreamaddict: true...I might be overestimating the value of space/size of files these days
2016-01-31T00:11:11Z dreamaddict: still, now I am thinking...there is room for a hero to make a good tree shaker...
2016-01-31T00:11:26Z Bike: you have to know all kinds of internals stuff. it's a tall order.
2016-01-31T00:11:34Z dreamaddict: Bike:  5MB?  Really?  for <5KB of actual information
2016-01-31T00:11:42Z Bike: and there are some people working on things, stassats talks about cutting bits out all the time
2016-01-31T00:11:52Z |3b|: sure, or a better GC, or some optimizations, or a new port, or make it dynamically linkable for android, or make the heap dynamically resizable
2016-01-31T00:12:00Z |3b|: lots of options for the heros :)
2016-01-31T00:12:07Z Bike: dreamaddict: mostly ad noise, they all download a bunch of js
2016-01-31T00:12:18Z |3b| would rate quite a few of those higher than image size
2016-01-31T00:12:33Z dreamaddict: point made sir :)
2016-01-31T00:12:58Z dreamaddict: still...when I tell people about this language, and they go, how do you run it...then I say, well you need to get the Lisp runtime with it, it's like 50MB or so
2016-01-31T00:13:12Z dreamaddict: and suddenly that seems laughable, when most of the crap running now needs runtime components
2016-01-31T00:13:23Z dreamaddict: like, "oh that, it's just part of the OS"
2016-01-31T00:13:41Z |3b|: well, look at the compressed size instead of 50MB
2016-01-31T00:14:18Z |3b|: and if it helps, at least it is self-contained unlike having a separate huge download like java, .net, etc
2016-01-31T00:15:55Z dreamaddict: ok so at the very least...it doesn't matter if I use ql or asdf or whatever method for coordinating all of the code files...in the end it's going to be a lump of code that someone can run without needing ql or asdf installed on their machine
2016-01-31T00:16:13Z dreamaddict: so what if it's a big lump, as long as it's a lump that doesn't care if there is Lisp or not on the other end
2016-01-31T00:16:30Z |3b|: or compare it to the things where people bundle a whole browser to run some js as a 'native' app :p
2016-01-31T00:16:35Z meiji11 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T00:17:18Z |3b|: yeah, it will just have funny error messages and some quirks from being an unpopular runtime so it doesn't see as many of the random strange configurations on user systems
2016-01-31T00:18:21Z dreamaddict: well that will have to do for now
2016-01-31T00:18:56Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:19:03Z |3b|: or show a small implementation like clisp first, and don't pull out sbcl until they complain it is slow :)
2016-01-31T00:19:14Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:19:14Z kenanb: is this pattern ever used? (defun foo (&optional (*test* *test*)) ((lambda () *test*)))
2016-01-31T00:19:40Z |3b|: the binding *test* to itself or ((lambda ...))?
2016-01-31T00:19:45Z |3b| does the former sometimes
2016-01-31T00:19:53Z dreamaddict: I heard that CL-PPCRE is actually faster in Lisp than the C version
2016-01-31T00:20:10Z dreamaddict: that's what I think of whenever I hear the "lisp is slow" things nowadays
2016-01-31T00:20:20Z White_Flame: the C version has gained a JIT in recent years, so I'm not sure.  Most of that benchmarking was when the C version still interpreted the pattern
2016-01-31T00:20:40Z kenanb: |3b|: binding *test* to itself in order to optionally shadow dynamic variable
2016-01-31T00:20:59Z |3b|: right
2016-01-31T00:20:59Z White_Flame: but yeah, for numerical code Lisp is in the ballpark of C when all the type declarations are in there.  For data-driven, highly dispatching code, C gets slow
2016-01-31T00:21:07Z White_Flame: and systems with better runtime support and JIT will outrun it
2016-01-31T00:21:47Z dreamaddict: at least with Lisp I get to prototype it without all of the type declarations, and then add them in later
2016-01-31T00:22:14Z |3b| is in the "normalize performance by developer time" group, and hopes CL wins there due to increased flexibility, even if the peak performance with infinite time isn't quite as good
2016-01-31T00:22:29Z helio joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:22:56Z kenanb: |3b|: the second form was just to show the intention is dynamically binding variable in one liner, I don't even know if that is ANSI compliant, (it probably is though?)
2016-01-31T00:23:33Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:23:56Z |3b|: yeah, lambda expressions are the only (i think) thing you can use in operator position aside form symbols naming functions
2016-01-31T00:23:58Z helio quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-31T00:24:05Z |3b|: *from
2016-01-31T00:25:14Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-31T00:26:31Z tippenein joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:28:01Z White_Flame: |3b|: basically, you mean a function designator?
2016-01-31T00:28:25Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T00:28:49Z White_Flame: however, I guess macros and special forms aren't "symbols naming functions" to be all properly #lisp pendantic :)
2016-01-31T00:29:04Z White_Flame: (pedantic)
2016-01-31T00:33:15Z kundry_wag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T00:38:15Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:39:41Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:41:03Z holycow joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:41:59Z fiddlerwoaroof: 418:56:35            z0d | depends on the implementation                                                                                                                                                                     │ chavezgu
2016-01-31T00:42:36Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T00:42:36Z dreamaddict quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T00:43:35Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T00:44:56Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:46:39Z broken_clock quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-31T00:46:41Z rneco quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T00:46:43Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T00:47:05Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:47:35Z rneco joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:49:17Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2016-01-31T00:58:05Z newcup joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:02:36Z rneco quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T01:06:15Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T01:09:17Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:11:31Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:17:50Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T01:21:58Z kenanb: White_Flame: yeah, tho I was more confused with runtime behaviour
2016-01-31T01:22:01Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:22:24Z kenanb: btw where in CLHS should I look for #. thing
2016-01-31T01:22:45Z White_Flame: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm
2016-01-31T01:22:48Z White_Flame: clhs *read-eval*
2016-01-31T01:22:48Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_eva.htm
2016-01-31T01:25:21Z kenanb: White_Flame: thank you! finally! no idea why I didn't think of using the actual names of characters.
2016-01-31T01:25:59Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2016-01-31T01:26:14Z White_Flame: Whenever you google for a particularly interesting section of the CLHS, it's always useful to go Up a few times to see which chapter/section it resides in
2016-01-31T01:26:29Z White_Flame: starts creating some recall to better find related things later
2016-01-31T01:28:45Z kenanb: yeah, I hate CLHS because I like CLHS too much to resist the urge to read whatever I see and keep searching the initial keyword
2016-01-31T01:30:28Z kenanb: I always find myself reading completely irrelevant stuff for hours. A reference manual shouldn't be fun to read. it destroys productivity.
2016-01-31T01:31:03Z kenanb: White_Flame: thanks for the advice btw
2016-01-31T01:33:13Z Bike: i think the function here does read macros.
2016-01-31T01:33:16Z Bike: clhs #.
2016-01-31T01:33:16Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm
2016-01-31T01:33:22Z Bike: woo.
2016-01-31T01:33:56Z White_Flame: hmm, I wonder what the difference is between /documentation/ (what Google hit) and /reference/ in the URLs
2016-01-31T01:33:56Z kenanb: cool
2016-01-31T01:36:12Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T01:37:52Z quasus` is now known as quasus
2016-01-31T01:37:54Z blackwolf joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:38:05Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:39:16Z blackwolf quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-31T01:39:36Z UtkarshRay quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T01:40:05Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:40:25Z jeaye joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:41:19Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T01:42:30Z Bike: reference redirects to documentation, it seems
2016-01-31T01:43:12Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:43:20Z White_Flame: kenanb: regarding your notion of partial image dumps from the backlog, one could consider fasls to be incremental image modifiers.  That would be an interesting starting point to create a feature like that
2016-01-31T01:47:37Z creat quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T01:47:47Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T01:49:32Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:50:05Z kenanb: White_Flame: I thought a similar thing actually but I don't know enough about fast load files so I ignored myself
2016-01-31T01:51:15Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T01:55:06Z White_Flame: they're very implementation specific
2016-01-31T01:55:29Z White_Flame: and there's no standard codepath to create them from currently resident data objects
2016-01-31T01:56:57Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-31T01:57:22Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:00:24Z j_king quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:00:43Z creat joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:00:47Z Fade quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:00:53Z Fade joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:01:00Z j_king joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:03:21Z Guest91845 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T02:13:07Z kenanb: White_Flame: yeah, but it still is an interesting idea
2016-01-31T02:13:24Z White_Flame: I agree.  It's just a big low-level research task
2016-01-31T02:13:52Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:15:16Z kenanb: so if I have a list of instances that I want to make persistent, it should be possible, say, to mapcar #'make-load-form to them, write the result in a file, compile it, and load it later as a persistency hack
2016-01-31T02:17:48Z kenanb: is it possible for the LOADed file to return a particular value instead of T
2016-01-31T02:18:09Z kenanb: like the result of last evaluated form in file
2016-01-31T02:19:12Z |3b|: White_Flame: no, in particular a function object designates itself, but cannot be used as the operator of a form to be evaluated
2016-01-31T02:19:43Z White_Flame: interesting
2016-01-31T02:19:58Z |3b|: (and a symbol designates the global function named by that symbol, so still isn't quite the right thing to describe an operator when there is a lexically visible local function)
2016-01-31T02:20:55Z creat quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:21:02Z |3b|: correct about me missing macros and special operators though :)
2016-01-31T02:22:40Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T02:23:18Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:25:48Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:26:38Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T02:28:15Z creat joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:28:27Z aap quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T02:28:54Z aap joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:31:48Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:32:39Z harish quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T02:33:35Z clop3 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T02:34:42Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:37:45Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:38:28Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T02:38:32Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:40:12Z creat quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:40:30Z Fade quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:41:51Z kenanb: http://clhs.lisp.se/Issues/iss215_w.htm
2016-01-31T02:41:56Z j_king quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:42:09Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:42:25Z kenanb: "Also many implementations provide a way to create a compiled-code file full of data (rather than compiled Lisp programs), and such data probably include extended-type objects." near the end of the page
2016-01-31T02:42:31Z Fade joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:42:59Z j_king joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:43:34Z kenanb: If I am not misinterpreting the text they were actually thinking of using fasl files for persistence
2016-01-31T02:45:09Z Bike: kenanb: load just evals. you can store objects fine like that, but you'd have to make them accessible in a normal way, like putting them in a variable or whatever.
2016-01-31T02:45:26Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:45:54Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:47:18Z kenanb: Bike: you mean actually putting in a variable inside the source file, right?
2016-01-31T02:47:59Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:48:08Z kenanb: Bike: so I am guessing there is no way a source file returns something except t when loaded?
2016-01-31T02:48:12Z Bike: like, your persistence file would consist of "(defvar *thing* (make-thing ...))", or something.
2016-01-31T02:48:12Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:48:43Z Bike: load always returns a boolean about whether it worked, yeah.
2016-01-31T02:49:33Z Bike: fasls are basically about sequential execution, so it's a bit inconvenient just to use them for data.
2016-01-31T02:53:15Z kenanb: Bike: you are right, but AFAIK prevalence solutions like bknr.datastore load and apply a journal file of transaction logs to recover its state, so I was thinking maybe that kind of works for some domains
2016-01-31T02:53:19Z |3b|: there is some trick where you compile something like (defvar *foo* #.whatever) to store stuff in a .fasl
2016-01-31T02:53:26Z creat joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:53:37Z |3b|: no guarantee fasl files are actually an efficient way to store any particular data type though
2016-01-31T02:54:03Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T02:54:09Z |3b|: and they might do things like coalescing similar conses and strings
2016-01-31T02:54:27Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T02:54:49Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T02:54:52Z |3b| thinks there were some implications for symbols too, if package state doesn't match when you save and load it
2016-01-31T02:56:32Z kenanb: well, the very idea of make-load-form from the actual object feels kind of hacky already
2016-01-31T02:56:44Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T02:58:51Z creat quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T03:00:10Z kenanb: |3b|: pardon my, I am foreign to that terminology, does coalescing similar conses and strings mean representing then as same entity in compiled file while it wasn't necessarily meant to be?
2016-01-31T03:00:31Z |3b|: combining them into a single object
2016-01-31T03:00:48Z |3b|: or rather, saving it in such a way that when loaded you would get the same object
2016-01-31T03:00:58Z kenanb: wow
2016-01-31T03:02:41Z kenanb: that sounds potentially error-prone even for the intended function of compile/load
2016-01-31T03:03:13Z |3b|: for example (let ((a '((1 2) (1 2)))) (eq (first a) (second a))) might return T when compiled
2016-01-31T03:03:15Z Bike: it's one of the reasons you're not supposed to modify constant data.
2016-01-31T03:04:19Z |3b|: well, it makes sense when you consider that you might save and load it into the same image
2016-01-31T03:04:56Z Kazlock quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T03:04:56Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:05:09Z |3b|: in which case, the old cons still exists, so if you cared about identity of literal objects in the source you might expect loading the file to produce the same(EQ) object
2016-01-31T03:05:23Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:11:25Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T03:11:28Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T03:12:24Z creat joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:17:06Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T03:17:30Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T03:18:26Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:21:55Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-31T03:22:24Z kenanb: http://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/sbcl/ci/master/tree/src/code/target-load.lisp#l114
2016-01-31T03:23:04Z kenanb: this is a documentation bug right? s/FILESPEC/PATHSPEC
2016-01-31T03:23:47Z kenanb: i know it is not important but still
2016-01-31T03:23:49Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T03:24:30Z creat quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T03:25:14Z kenanb: hmm, clhs mentions it as FILESPEC, so the function arg name is wrong
2016-01-31T03:25:30Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T03:29:14Z |3b|: yeah, docstring quotes clhs, so hard to call it a bug, but having them not match isn't the best thing
2016-01-31T03:30:49Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:31:36Z |3b|: you'd have to ask sbcl devs which they'd prefer to change (if any)
2016-01-31T03:31:37Z creat joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:33:31Z Fade quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T03:33:52Z kenanb: but isn't that something that can introduce a bug in theory, the theory being some idiot doesn't comply the earmuffs convention and binds pathspec globally
2016-01-31T03:34:34Z kenanb: in which case an ANSI CL compliant implementation should function normally but SBCL might do weird things
2016-01-31T03:34:52Z Fade joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:34:53Z j_king quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T03:35:00Z j_king joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:36:32Z creat quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T03:37:35Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:37:49Z kenanb: I mean it is hardly a bug but IMHO it shouldn't be up to preference once provided a fix
2016-01-31T03:41:12Z kenanb: actually that idiot should defvar pathspec in sb-fasl package where load is defined to make a bug out of it, since the args are not external symbols to the package
2016-01-31T03:42:12Z kenanb: yeah that is not a bug
2016-01-31T03:42:26Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T03:49:45Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:53:10Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:55:39Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T03:56:16Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-31T03:56:34Z munge quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T04:01:48Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T04:03:53Z White_Flame: kenanb: the idiot would also have to recompile the file containing LOAD, since it was originally compiled with its parameter symbols not being declared special
2016-01-31T04:05:54Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:11:26Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T04:12:05Z kenanb: White_Flame: yeah, we are talking about a particularly capable idiot here
2016-01-31T04:15:23Z edgar-rft: a sufficiently smart idiot
2016-01-31T04:15:43Z kenanb: exactly
2016-01-31T04:18:46Z Fleurety quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T04:19:21Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:19:55Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T04:20:21Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T04:21:18Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:24:11Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:24:31Z eudoxia quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T04:26:21Z lastack99 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:28:56Z creat joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:29:20Z |3b|: right, but they could do the same if it were named filespec anyway, since that isn't a symbol defined by CL, and if you extend the limitations on symbols in the CL package to implementation packages (as SBCL seems to do), that affects either name
2016-01-31T04:30:35Z |3b|: (there are cases where the internal argument name affects things though. a few places use symbols like CL:NUMBER, which then confuses some warning heuristics when user code also uses that symbol)
2016-01-31T04:34:07Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2016-01-31T04:34:36Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-31T04:36:47Z kenanb: ofc, our hypothetical idiot could do that for filespec, too, but then the weird behaviour would be normal since that name is specified as the argument name of LOAD in reference
2016-01-31T04:37:50Z kenanb: but I am not standing behind my argument anymore, because that is not an external symbol
2016-01-31T04:37:50Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:38:23Z kenanb: your CL:NUMBER example is interesting though
2016-01-31T04:41:35Z |3b|: you aren't allowed to globally declare CL:NUMBER special though, so still not that horrible
2016-01-31T04:42:08Z |3b|: everything still works, you just get dead code elimination notes from internals that you wouldn't normally see
2016-01-31T04:42:30Z |3b|: (it is something sbcl devs would like to see fixed, it just hasn't been high enough priority for anyone)
2016-01-31T04:45:14Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-31T04:46:39Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:48:06Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:56:13Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:58:01Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:58:13Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:58:55Z kenanb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T04:59:12Z kenanb joined #lisp
2016-01-31T04:59:35Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-31T05:01:26Z kenanb: anyway, I'm off to work. thanks for the nice chat folks, it was educating :)
2016-01-31T05:01:29Z creat quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T05:02:05Z kenanb left #lisp
2016-01-31T05:07:20Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-31T05:10:27Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-31T05:18:13Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T05:18:23Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-01-31T05:21:02Z lemoinem quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T05:24:37Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2016-01-31T05:27:28Z beach: minion: memo for contrapunctus: Listen to jackdaniel, Climacs itself does not have a "display engine".  It uses McCLIM for displaying text.
2016-01-31T05:27:28Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell contrapunctus when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-31T05:37:58Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T05:41:27Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-31T05:45:01Z bolichep quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-31T05:45:29Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-31T05:45:40Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T05:46:18Z bolichep quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T05:47:07Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-31T05:51:32Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-31T05:53:12Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-31T05:57:46Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-31T06:03:09Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:07:29Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:09:59Z bolichep quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T06:10:12Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T06:11:26Z creat joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:11:44Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T06:11:50Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:16:06Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T06:16:59Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:18:25Z bolichep quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016-01-31T06:18:44Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:19:55Z bolichep quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T06:24:00Z je4i` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:24:00Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:24:54Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: Gone)
2016-01-31T06:30:56Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:38:25Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:38:49Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-31T06:47:16Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T06:48:18Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-31T06:57:46Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:01:56Z eazar001 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T07:08:26Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:13:26Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2016-01-31T07:14:13Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:15:36Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:25:31Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:25:47Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-31T07:30:40Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T07:31:00Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-31T07:32:33Z cibs joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:34:16Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T07:34:41Z nostoi joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:35:15Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:36:49Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:36:54Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-31T07:40:19Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:43:17Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:44:18Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:44:33Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T07:50:18Z radioninja joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:51:46Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T07:54:46Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T07:55:43Z dreamaddict joined #lisp
2016-01-31T07:58:20Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T08:00:22Z dreamaddict: ok so...I have this code
2016-01-31T08:00:29Z dreamaddict: http://paste.lisp.org/display/306242
2016-01-31T08:00:49Z jdtest quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T08:01:11Z jdtest joined #lisp
2016-01-31T08:01:13Z dreamaddict: and I'd like to somehow add a way to manipulate the audio before it comes out the mixer, like a volume control or flanger or whatever algorithm...
2016-01-31T08:01:47Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-31T08:01:53Z dreamaddict: so you wrap those streamers somehow in a function...?
2016-01-31T08:04:14Z dreamaddict: I could write the math for a volume control, if I knew what it was working with
2016-01-31T08:04:50Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-31T08:07:44Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T08:11:41Z beach: Your question seems very specific to mixalot.  Perhaps the answer is in the manual?
2016-01-31T08:15:53Z splittist: beach: what is (item-count buffer) supposed to return? I imagine this depends on the semantics of the buffer and the items.
2016-01-31T08:21:37Z beach: Always the sum of the item counts of each line.
2016-01-31T08:22:08Z beach: If you want Emacs-style item counts, you need to add (1- (line-count ...))
2016-01-31T08:24:52Z splittist: beach: or (* line-count number-of-'items'-in-a-#\Newline) and maybe 1- if no final #\Newline...
2016-01-31T08:25:06Z beach: Right.
2016-01-31T08:25:18Z je4i quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T08:25:19Z je4i` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T08:26:34Z beach: (* (1- line-count) number-of-items-in-a-newline)
2016-01-31T08:27:12Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-31T08:32:07Z splittist: (+ (if final-newline-p number-of-items-in-a-newline 0))
2016-01-31T08:36:57Z splittist: There is lots of clever stuff in climacs/drei/esa to be 'repurposed' for triviil, methinks
2016-01-31T08:42:33Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-31T08:43:23Z beach: splittist: You lost me.
2016-01-31T08:45:14Z beach: What is (+ (if final-newline-p number-of-items-in-a-newline 0))?
2016-01-31T08:45:37Z nostoi quit (Quit: Verlassend.)
2016-01-31T08:45:49Z beach: Is that what you need to do to make things fit with Triviil?
2016-01-31T08:48:15Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T08:48:16Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T08:48:54Z artbv joined #lisp
2016-01-31T08:52:28Z artbv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T08:52:58Z artbv joined #lisp
2016-01-31T08:55:08Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-31T08:56:35Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T08:58:41Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T09:01:22Z flip214: ever tries to search for "SLIME presentations" .... and then switched to picture search?   ;)
2016-01-31T09:02:49Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T09:08:25Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T09:08:31Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-31T09:10:44Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2016-01-31T09:12:38Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T09:15:22Z cyraxjoe quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-31T09:20:35Z elimik31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T09:32:02Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-31T09:34:00Z mdemont joined #lisp
2016-01-31T09:47:35Z radioninja joined #lisp
2016-01-31T09:50:20Z dreamaddict quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T09:51:47Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-31T09:52:54Z White_Flame: so with quickloading something with a dependency on iolib, in its build process, shelling out to g++ is giving me "exited with error code 1".  Is there any way to actually see the stdout of the failing process in the inspector?  running sbcl
2016-01-31T09:54:46Z loke__: White_Flame: What CL are you using?
2016-01-31T09:54:57Z White_Flame: "running sbcl"
2016-01-31T09:55:00Z loke__: The error is because you don' thave libfixposix available.
2016-01-31T09:55:21Z loke__: And for CL, I think the error is seen in the *inferior-lisp* buffer
2016-01-31T09:55:25Z loke__: I mean SBCL
2016-01-31T09:55:39Z White_Flame: already checked, there's nothing in *inferior-lisp* about it
2016-01-31T09:58:46Z White_Flame: before getting libfixposic, I think I'll see if I can get the print-object of the error to print the stdout buffer of the process
2016-01-31T09:59:30Z loke__: White_Flame: Iolib's behaviour in the face of missing libfixposix has been a pain-point for a very long time.
2016-01-31T09:59:37Z jackdaniel: White_Flame: try from the terminal, or provide :verbose t
2016-01-31T09:59:40Z jackdaniel: to quicklisp
2016-01-31T09:59:46Z White_Flame: ah, I'll try verbose
2016-01-31T09:59:57Z jackdaniel: if you'll do the latter, then it should be in *inferior-lisp* buffer I suppose
2016-01-31T10:00:02Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-31T10:00:20Z White_Flame: I did hit this on another machine once, didn't recall the details.  But there I did reassemble the cmdline from the list-of-strings form in CL and pasted that to the shell to extract the error message
2016-01-31T10:00:21Z loke__: In my opinion, it should compile the library itself during the Quickload. Just finding libfixposix can be a hassle given the fact that it's typically not parts of a linux package manager (and neither on osx)
2016-01-31T10:00:29Z UtkarshRay quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T10:01:00Z White_Flame: but failure to report available error information is also a problem
2016-01-31T10:01:32Z White_Flame: this is a UIOP/RUN-PROGRAM:SUBPROCESS-ERROR, so access to stderr in the error report seems reasonable
2016-01-31T10:02:28Z White_Flame: :verbose t gave me the g++ line at least, but no stderr in the sldb buffer or inferior-lisp
2016-01-31T10:03:33Z loke__: White_Flame: Yeah, I was saying that any improvemtns to the build, or just the error reporting is definitely welcome.
2016-01-31T10:08:43Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-31T10:09:23Z White_Flame: reading the uiop code, it looks like subprocess stderr is _supposed_ to be routed to the parent process stdout, but is probably overridden somewhere
2016-01-31T10:10:13Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-31T10:11:15Z norfumpit quit (Quit: See You, Space Cowboy ...)
2016-01-31T10:12:04Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-31T10:14:18Z White_Flame: heh, comment in iolib/grovel:invoke  "Do we really want to suppress the output by default?"
2016-01-31T10:18:01Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T10:21:14Z White_Flame bails on this; too many moving parts
2016-01-31T10:22:10Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T10:24:06Z naghavi joined #lisp
2016-01-31T10:25:13Z White_Flame: well, if I ignore UIOP's error code, I can get iolib's groveller to spit out the stderr report
2016-01-31T10:25:17Z White_Flame: (with code changes)
2016-01-31T10:25:42Z mtl__ is now known as mtl_
2016-01-31T10:26:34Z mdemont quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T10:27:40Z White_Flame: yep, change in iolib, not change in uiop, gives a better error response
2016-01-31T10:41:34Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-31T10:49:44Z CharlesN quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T10:50:39Z White_Flame: there, pull request registered
2016-01-31T10:54:00Z loke__: White_Flame nicew
2016-01-31T10:54:14Z White_Flame: had to figure out all this github stuff
2016-01-31T10:54:59Z loke__: I should look into implemneting my own suggestion of having it auto-compile the libfixposix.
2016-01-31T10:58:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-31T10:58:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2016-01-31T10:58:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-31T11:01:06Z CharlesN joined #lisp
2016-01-31T11:06:50Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T11:12:23Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-31T11:13:12Z splittist: beach: what if the single line read is [#\a#\Newline]. Will this not lead to a buffer with one line containing [#\a]?
2016-01-31T11:15:28Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-31T11:19:15Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T11:24:48Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp
2016-01-31T11:26:49Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-31T11:31:27Z Pastsins joined #lisp
2016-01-31T11:31:39Z sakalli quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T11:33:01Z Pastsins quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T11:33:48Z je4i quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T11:34:03Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-31T11:35:08Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T11:42:11Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-31T11:48:26Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T11:52:46Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T11:54:52Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:01:14Z digiorgi joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:02:10Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:04:14Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:08:44Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:08:51Z ACE_Recliner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T12:09:08Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:10:13Z wokko quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-31T12:10:38Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:10:40Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:11:15Z phoe_krk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:11:37Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:12:50Z araujo_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:13:41Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:25:47Z smokeink quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:47Z hitecnologys quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z oleo__ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z karswell quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z ssake_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z edgar-rft quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z ramus quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z lxpz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z peppermachete quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z jchmrt quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z MrWoohoo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z wglb quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z zeroish quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z rhg135 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z dan64 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z ralt quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z low-profile quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z zeraceth quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z ivan4th` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z White_Flame quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z eMBee quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z jayne quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z scholzy quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z Zhivago quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z chavezgu quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z cods quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z yang quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z o`connor quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z tomaw quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z nkhodyunya quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z futpib quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z nikki93 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z Jesin quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z IPmonger quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z mathrick quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z trn quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z NaNDude quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z gz_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z EvW quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z gravicappa quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z harish quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z eazar001 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z creat quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z newcup quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z drforr1 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z fluter quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z H4ns quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z anunnaki quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z nydel quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z oskarth quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z dew3y` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z Colleen quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z trinque quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z Lord_of_Life quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z tobel quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:48Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z __main__ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z Zotan quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z SlashLife quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z e quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z mach quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z rvchangue_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z artbv quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z vlatkoB quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z beach quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z sjl quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z djh_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z porky11 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z ryan_vw quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z gigetoo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z p_l quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z Posterdati quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z wvvu quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z DGASAU quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z Quadrescence quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z mordocai quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z someone quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z nullman quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z thomas quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z moredhel_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z SHODAN quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z KingCons_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z DylanJ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z otwieracz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z stepnem quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z chu quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:25:49Z danlentz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z rtoym quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z synchromesh quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z Yuuhi quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z replcated_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z sz0 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z jostein quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z Guest20174 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z dmiles_afk quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z loke__ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z arrsim quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z foom quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z segmond quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z vlnx quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z DeadTrickster quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z vxxe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z nhandler quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z cross quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z PuercoPop quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z rvchangue quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z yeltzooo9 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z misv quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z TMA quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z feep quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z billstclair quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z Neet quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z gendl quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z justicefries quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z dlowe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z jackdaniel quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z mj12` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z renard_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z je4i quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z AntiSpamMeta quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z haasn quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z troydm quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z forgot quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z zickzackv quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z mrottenkolber quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z yuankode quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z gingerale quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z puchacz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z UtkarshRay quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z Xach quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z moei quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z nullFxn quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z PlasmaStar quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z ThePhoeron quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z pvaneynd_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z minion quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z pareidol1a quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z dougk_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z coyo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z taij33n quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z aeth quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z keix quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z sulky quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z vhost- quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z clog quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z phadthai quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z drmeister quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z joshe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z tokenrove quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z mtl_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z srcerer quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z d4gg4d quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z em quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z SAL9000 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z faheem quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z stux|RC-only quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z GGMethos quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z arrdem quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z larme quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z cic_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z xantoz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z pootler_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z Zackio quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z nicdev quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z micro_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z xmad quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z sfa quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z sshirokov quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z smull quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z ecraven quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z Guest32319 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z lpaste quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z pchrist quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z jself quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z sivoais quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z john-mcaleely quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z arnsholt quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z xaotuk quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z octophore quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z quasisane quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z william3 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z digiorgi quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z Wojciech_K quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z malbertife quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z dextertzu quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z yauz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:13Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z zyoung quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z loke_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z salv0 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z pjb quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z skeledrew quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z tessier quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z nightfly quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z opcode quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z dim quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z mprelude quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z sigjuice quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z Tristam quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z dilated_dinosaur quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z impulse quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z Walex quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z heddwch quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z saruta quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z wizzo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z lvh quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z joga quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z msb quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z vaitel quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z guiloooo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z shikhin quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z les quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ozzloy quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z zbigniew quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z tokik quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ineiros quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z InvalidCo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z failproofshark quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z briankrent quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z pok quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z guaqua quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z pwned quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z dxtr quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z cell quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z jurov quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z justinabrahms quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ``Erik quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z cpt_nemo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z cibs quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z pillton quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z jtza8 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z jdtest quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z Fleurety quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z lastack99 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z tippenein quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z johs quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z over quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z vert2 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z reb```` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z NeverDie quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ASau quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z baboon` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z vsync quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z jtz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z voidlily_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z tkd quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z araujo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z salva quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z vaporatorius__ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z cmatei quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z sbryant quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z froggey quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ferada quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z Intensity quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ieure quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z AeroNotix quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z brandonz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z Lord_Nightmare quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z justinmcp quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z Ober quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z axion quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z jackc-_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z jcay quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z mtd quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z darlinger quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z sellout quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z hyoyoung quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z gypsydave5 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z attila_lendvai quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ggole quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z Warlock_29A quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z schoppenhauer quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z Kazlock quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z jeaye quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ft quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z killmaster quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z technik quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z easye quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z yvm quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z wooden_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z fe[nl]ix quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z Blkt quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ogam quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z specbot quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z zacts quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z khisanth_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z yrdz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z CEnnis91 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z fn2187 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z kini quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z birk quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z musegarden3 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z nopf quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z aerique quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z luis quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ggherdov_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z trig-ger quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z tumdum quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z eagleflo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z jasom quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z kalzz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z alms_clozure quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z oGMo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z ahungry quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z karbak quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z djinni` quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z phryk quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z dsp- quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z MikeSeth quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z tiago quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z Riviera quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z sekrit quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z zwdr quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z araujo_ quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:14Z skali quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z CharlesN quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z naghavi quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z MoALTz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z j_king quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z Fade quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z happy-dude quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z Davidbrcz quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z joast quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z bcoburn quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z NhanH quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z SilentEcho quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z frankS2 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z zaquest quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z nowhereman quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z alexherbo2 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z eli quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z myrkraverk quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z profess quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z scymtym quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z |3b| quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z abbe quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z ircbrowse quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z lieven quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z Viaken quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z clop quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z j0ni quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z gensym quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z arbscht quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z tristero quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z arpunk quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z dwchandler quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z kjeldahl quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z farhaven quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z Cthulhux quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z bobbysmith007 quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z Firedancer quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z XachX quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z wyan quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z gabot quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z lancetw quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z gbyers quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z l1x quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z splittist quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z victor_lowther quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z rvirding quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z banjiewen quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z Robdgreat quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z drdo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z cartwright quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z Subfusc quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z brucem quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z Mandus quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z Jamazia quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z swflint quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z jsnell quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z sytse quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z wolf_mozart quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z nisstyre quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z danieli quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z funnel quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z s00pcan quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z cyberlard quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z DrCode quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:26:16Z zymurgy quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:29:11Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:29:14Z jfe quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T12:29:56Z gypsydave5 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z hyoyoung joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z sellout joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z darlinger joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z mtd joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z jackc-_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z axion joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z jcay joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z Ober joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z brandonz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z AeroNotix joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z ieure joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z Intensity joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z ferada joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z froggey joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z sbryant joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z cmatei joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z salva joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z tkd joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z voidlily_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z jtz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z vsync joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z ASau joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:29:59Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z reb```` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z vert2 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z whiteline joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z johs joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z tippenein joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z lastack99 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z Fleurety joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z jdtest joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z wolf_mozart joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z sytse joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z jsnell joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z swflint joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z Mandus joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z brucem joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z Subfusc joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z cartwright joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z drdo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z Robdgreat joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z rvirding joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z victor_lowther joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z splittist joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z l1x joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z gbyers joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z lancetw joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z gabot joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z wyan joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z XachX joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z Firedancer joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z bobbysmith007 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z Cthulhux joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z farhaven joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z kjeldahl joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z dwchandler joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z arpunk joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z tristero joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z arbscht joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z gensym joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z j0ni joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z clop joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z Viaken joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z lieven joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z abbe joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z ircbrowse joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z |3b| joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z scymtym joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z profess joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z eli joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z zaquest joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z SilentEcho joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z frankS2 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z NhanH joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:02Z joast joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z Fade joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z j_king joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z naghavi joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z CharlesN joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z skali joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z o`connor joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z yang joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z cods joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z chavezgu joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z jayne joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z eMBee joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z copec joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z White_Flame joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z ivan4th` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z zeraceth joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z low-profile joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z ralt joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z dan64 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z rhg135 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z zeroish joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z wglb joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z jchmrt joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z peppermachete joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z lxpz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z ramus joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z scholzy joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z ssake_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z djinni` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z octo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z ``Erik joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z justinabrahms joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z jurov joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z cell joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z dxtr joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z phryk joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z Guest92014 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z Riviera joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z phoe_krk joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z je4i joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z yuankode joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z stepnem joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z UtkarshRay joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z artbv joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z futpib joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z harish joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z gingerale joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z creat joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z beach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z chu joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:03Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z newcup joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z IPmonger joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z danlentz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z mathrick joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z wvvu joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z rtoym joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z synchromesh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z drforr1 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z moei joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z H4ns joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z Yuuhi joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:04Z nullFxn joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z replcated_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z gz_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z NaNDude joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z nydel joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z oskarth joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z flip214 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z djh_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z pvaneynd_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z jostein joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z dew3y` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z minion joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z Colleen joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z porky11 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z pareidol1a joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z trinque joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z Guest20174 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z loke__ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z p_l joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z dougk_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z arrsim joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z coyo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z foom joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z tobel joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z taij33n joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z forgot joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z aeth joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z mordocai joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z haasn joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z someone joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z troydm joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z jdz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z justicefries joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z nhandler joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z keix joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z segmond joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z vlnx joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z __main__ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z nullman joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z Zotan joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z thomas joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z sulky joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z vxxe joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z e joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z vhost- joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z clog joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z phadthai joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z mach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z ski joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z Zackio joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z rvchangue_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z cross joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z mj12` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z rvchangue joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:05Z drmeister joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z mood joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z moredhel_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z joshe joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z SHODAN joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z KingCons_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z antoszka joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z DylanJ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z otwieracz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z tokenrove joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z yeltzooo9 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z misv joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z TMA joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z mtl_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z srcerer joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z tomaw joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z d4gg4d joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z em joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z feep joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z faheem joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z dlowe joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z gendl joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z Neet joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z billstclair joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z renard_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z ck_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z zickzackv joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z GGMethos joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z arrdem joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z larme joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z cic_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z xantoz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z pootler_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z nicdev joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z micro_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z xmad joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z gko joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z sfa joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z sshirokov joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z smull joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z ecraven joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z Guest32319 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z lpaste joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z pchrist joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z jself joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z sivoais joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z john-mcaleely joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z arnsholt joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z quasisane joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z ccaffeini quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z gniourf quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z tclamb quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:30:07Z Xof quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:30:38Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:30:48Z aap quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T12:31:05Z Oddity quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:31:05Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:31:05Z habs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:31:28Z danieli quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016-01-31T12:31:37Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:31Z over joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:43Z djinni` quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-31T12:33:43Z zymurgy joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:43Z keix quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z kalzz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z funnel joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z jeaye joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z ft joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z killmaster joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z technik joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z easye joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z yvm joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z Blkt joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z ogam joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z specbot joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z khisanth_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z yrdz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z fn2187 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z kini joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z birk joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:49Z musegarden3 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z nopf joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z aerique joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z luis joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z trig-ger joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z tumdum joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z eagleflo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z jasom joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z asedeno joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z alms_clozure joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z oGMo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z ahungry joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z karbak joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z tiago joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z dsp- joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z MikeSeth joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z sekrit joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:50Z zwdr joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:54Z Jamazia joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:33:54Z Jamazia quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z jfe joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z digiorgi joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z malbertife joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z dextertzu joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z yauz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z akkad joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z zyoung joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z loke_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z salv0 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z pjb joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z skeledrew joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z tessier joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z nightfly joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z opcode joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z dim joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z mprelude joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z sigjuice joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z Tristam joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z impulse joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z Walex joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z heddwch joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z saruta joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z _death joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z wizzo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z lvh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z joga joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z msb joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z vaitel joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z guiloooo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z shikhin joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z les joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z failproofshark joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z zbigniew joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z tokik joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z ineiros joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z InvalidCo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z briankrent joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z pok joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z guaqua joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z pwned joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z Jamazia joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:32Z Jamazia quit (Excess Flood)
2016-01-31T12:34:40Z gniourf joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:34:47Z djinni` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z Jamazia joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z Kazlock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z funnel quit (Changing host)
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z funnel joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z Kazlock joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z aap_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z Patzy_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z cibs joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z pillton joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z dxtr quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z cell quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z jurov quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z justinabrahms quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z ``Erik quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z cpt_nemo quit (*.net *.split)
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z srcerer quit (Ping timeout: 263 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z dxtr joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z cell joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z jurov joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z justinabrahms joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z ``Erik joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z AntiSpamMeta_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z AntiSpamMeta_ is now known as AntiSpamMeta
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z seg_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z puchacz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:34Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:35:50Z seg_ is now known as seg
2016-01-31T12:35:55Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:36:19Z beach: splittist: No, it will lead to two lines, the last one will be empty.
2016-01-31T12:36:46Z nggrfggr quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:37:22Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T12:37:39Z heurist joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:37:44Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:39:05Z ggherdov_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:43:49Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T12:44:30Z ccaffeini joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:47:25Z DrCode joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:49:49Z quasus joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:50:25Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:52:24Z fu7mu4 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:55:12Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:57:02Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:57:10Z habs joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:58:11Z zacharias_ quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-31T12:58:27Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-31T12:58:56Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T12:59:20Z cyberlard joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:00:11Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:00:14Z nisstyre joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:03:50Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T13:03:50Z je4i quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T13:05:13Z trn joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:05:15Z splittist: beach: ok
2016-01-31T13:07:14Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T13:07:21Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T13:08:10Z karswell joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:09:11Z LiamH joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:09:42Z pjb: beach: in GNU emacs, you can have multiple user with multiple frames (on different X displays) showing the same part of a buffer, and each user will have his own insertion point, where insertion (and other editing) may occur, "at the same time".  emacs serialize all the commands, so it's not in parallel, but multiple gaps will exist at the same time.
2016-01-31T13:10:11Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:12:20Z pjb: beach: and even without going so far, you can just have the same buffer displayed in different windows, each with a different position, so you can insert some in one window, C-x o and insert some in the other window, each in a different gap.
2016-01-31T13:13:08Z pjb: (the multiuser demo is just more striking, since you see characters inserted in both places "at the same time").
2016-01-31T13:13:44Z digiorgi: any ABCL user?? when you want to CL:LOAD some result of CL:COMPILE that is stored inside a jar, how can you do that? I mean a for example a jar:file:ctest-all.jar!/system.abcl, because the CL:LOAD simplily freezes
2016-01-31T13:14:36Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-31T13:14:51Z pjb: ferada: you can use ldb and dpb to manipulate bit fields in integers.
2016-01-31T13:15:51Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:16:02Z attila_lendvai: argh, the internal protocol of ASDF is such a pain... does anyone have a hint how to tell ASDF that these are the output-files, but check their modification time and don't redo the operation, unless it's needed?
2016-01-31T13:16:16Z pjb: digiorgi: you might want to try the abcl mailling list: asdf-devel@common-lisp.net
2016-01-31T13:16:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T13:17:18Z Kazlock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T13:18:10Z digiorgi: pjb: asd-devel?? i sent to armedbear-devel@common-lisp.net two days ago, and nobody responded (:
2016-01-31T13:18:45Z pjb: Sorry, I meant armedbear-devel.
2016-01-31T13:20:02Z nggrfggr joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:22:09Z pjb: fiddlerwoaroof: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_character (intern(concatenate 'string "A" '(#\u2002) "C")) --> a c ; etc.
2016-01-31T13:22:50Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:23:20Z pjb: wvvu: https://medium.com/@seibelj/parents-are-dumb-and-kids-don-t-know-anything-about-computers-anymore-b59e974d052c
2016-01-31T13:25:43Z pjb: wvvu: there are 1D games.  They used to work on video terminals that emulated teletypes (so you could only update the display on the last line).  Also, despite the 2D graphics, the game where you have two cannons fighting in turn is a 1D game, you could do the same on a single text line.
2016-01-31T13:31:54Z beach: pjb: That would be in the buffer, not in the view.  The buffer is taken care of.
2016-01-31T13:33:22Z beach: pjb: That is exactly why the buffer is not implemented a gap buffer but as a splay tree.
2016-01-31T13:33:46Z beach: I guess my capacities for explaining things must be deteriorating.
2016-01-31T13:35:55Z pjb: beach: Don't worry about your capacities, I can only follow irc intermitently so the problem must be on my end.
2016-01-31T13:36:24Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T13:36:32Z pjb: minion: memo for dreaaddict: hello world is 4MB in clisp, and 12288 bytes in ecl, just like with gcc.
2016-01-31T13:36:32Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell dreaaddict when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-31T13:36:33Z beach: You are not the only example of people completely misunderstanding what I say/write.
2016-01-31T13:36:39Z pjb: minion: memo for dreamaddict: hello world is 4MB in clisp, and 12288 bytes in ecl, just like with gcc.
2016-01-31T13:36:39Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell dreamaddict when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-01-31T13:37:04Z beach: The other day, everybody thought that I was trying to change my CapsLock key to a control.
2016-01-31T13:37:16Z pjb: :-)
2016-01-31T13:38:03Z smokeink joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:38:04Z pjb: beach: I sent you memos about modifiers; my point is that they can be mapped to bits by the user as he wishes (or have to do for applications or window manager that expect fixed bits). So I would advise to not expect fixed bits, to remain compatible in any environment.
2016-01-31T13:38:22Z beach: Yes, I read it.
2016-01-31T13:38:28Z pjb: good.
2016-01-31T13:38:44Z beach: I will make it configurable.
2016-01-31T13:38:49Z beach: ... where X11 allows it.
2016-01-31T13:39:30Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2016-01-31T13:39:43Z mishoo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:44:24Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:44:28Z digiorgi: minion is a bot right? what it does?
2016-01-31T13:45:34Z jackdaniel: digiorgi: http://cliki.net/minion
2016-01-31T13:45:49Z jackdaniel: /msg minion help
2016-01-31T13:48:56Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T13:49:31Z bolichep joined #lisp
2016-01-31T13:53:48Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T14:01:08Z over quit (Changing host)
2016-01-31T14:01:08Z over joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:01:22Z over is now known as opus
2016-01-31T14:10:58Z Wizek joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:13:19Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:13:23Z fu7mu4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T14:19:11Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:21:18Z william3 quit
2016-01-31T14:25:51Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:27:05Z eni joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:29:47Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T14:30:48Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T14:32:34Z jeaye quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-31T14:35:55Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T14:36:34Z CharlesN quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T14:37:32Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:37:51Z moredhel_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T14:38:47Z aap_ is now known as aap
2016-01-31T14:40:36Z k-stz joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:40:54Z iskander quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T14:41:06Z Oddity joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:41:06Z Oddity quit (Changing host)
2016-01-31T14:41:06Z Oddity joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:45:29Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:48:59Z CharlesN joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:49:55Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T14:53:21Z fiddlerwoaroof: pjb: the problem I had was that the pastebin replaced all the non-breaking spaces with normal spaces. I had read this: http://www.rubyinside.com/the-split-is-not-enough-whitespace-shenigans-for-rubyists-5980.html and was wondering if lisp allowed something similar.
2016-01-31T14:53:22Z sjl joined #lisp
2016-01-31T14:59:18Z attila_lendvai groans when realizes that the ASDF misbehavior he was trying to understand has been fixed a few days ago
2016-01-31T14:59:25Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:00:08Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-31T15:00:29Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T15:00:34Z phoe_krk attempts to implement AIM-8 in Haskell.
2016-01-31T15:00:52Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:00:56Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T15:01:31Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:01:45Z fiddlerwoaroof: AIM-8?
2016-01-31T15:03:00Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T15:03:11Z phoe_krk: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/aim-8/aim-8.html
2016-01-31T15:03:45Z phoe_krk: While supporting myself with http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/ldc/llog/jmc.pdf .
2016-01-31T15:04:54Z fiddlerwoaroof: ah
2016-01-31T15:12:54Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:23:17Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T15:23:37Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:23:41Z test1600 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:26:40Z _tokamach quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T15:28:00Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T15:35:46Z digiorgi quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T15:41:56Z Heranort quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T15:41:58Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:44:18Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:47:05Z znpy joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:47:34Z artbv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T15:47:56Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:49:11Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:49:25Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T15:51:46Z karswell` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T15:52:00Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T15:52:27Z tristero quit (Quit: tristero)
2016-01-31T15:52:40Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:01:10Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T16:01:30Z isoraqathedh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T16:01:50Z hydan joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:01:50Z hydan quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-31T16:01:55Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:02:38Z isoraqathedh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:04:59Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-31T16:09:14Z phoe_krk: wow
2016-01-31T16:09:20Z phoe_krk: Lisp Flavored Erlang is so freaking cool
2016-01-31T16:13:22Z Sucks quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T16:13:48Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:16:58Z karswell` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T16:17:48Z karswell` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:18:22Z Tedl joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:18:27Z danieli quit (Changing host)
2016-01-31T16:18:27Z danieli joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:20:20Z Tedl left #lisp
2016-01-31T16:21:59Z nyef_ is now known as nyef
2016-01-31T16:22:39Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:25:42Z TMM joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:25:42Z moore33 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:32:13Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-31T16:32:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T16:35:14Z porky11 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T16:36:12Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T16:38:37Z luis: phoe_krk: why?
2016-01-31T16:38:44Z Xof joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:39:03Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:40:05Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:40:16Z phoe_krk: luis: I'm somewhat fascinated by Erlang's abilities when it comes to concurrency and, bam, there's Erlang that's actually a Lisp.
2016-01-31T16:40:50Z phoe_krk: I was thinking whether I could easily implement Erlang's ! operator within bordeaux-threads, actually.
2016-01-31T16:40:55Z luis: Apart from prefix notation, does it, hmm, /feel/ like a Lisp?
2016-01-31T16:43:42Z phoe_krk: I need to get a better feel to say that.
2016-01-31T16:46:28Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:46:46Z scottj joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:47:19Z luis: Keep us posted. :)
2016-01-31T16:47:21Z jackdaniel: afair it has decent macro system and feels like a lisp
2016-01-31T16:47:38Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:48:19Z iskander joined #lisp
2016-01-31T16:49:25Z jackdaniel: but I may have mixed something
2016-01-31T16:49:28Z iskander quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-31T16:50:54Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T16:54:21Z Wojciech_K: I've tried LFE some time ago. It  feels like lisp. I remember frustration because it's build tool (LFEtool) was taking all my ram, swapping and forcing computer retart.
2016-01-31T16:56:04Z jackdaniel: Wojciech_K: there is also #lisp-pl (basing on your name, you may be interested in hanging there :)
2016-01-31T16:57:57Z joshe: there's also joxa, and at least one scheme which targets erlang as well
2016-01-31T16:58:01Z Wojciech_K: thanks
2016-01-31T17:07:47Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2016-01-31T17:08:36Z Guest92014 quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-31T17:08:43Z digiorgi joined #lisp
2016-01-31T17:09:37Z LiamH: luis: you mentioned yesterday using an :around method in the .asd file for rebinding *cc* -- do you have some advice on how that might work?
2016-01-31T17:09:51Z zacts joined #lisp
2016-01-31T17:15:14Z whiteline_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T17:15:17Z whiteline quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T17:16:14Z Xach_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T17:18:05Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T17:18:29Z whiteline_ is now known as whiteline
2016-01-31T17:18:41Z contrapunctus joined #lisp
2016-01-31T17:19:34Z flip214: LiamH: in the asdf:defsystem, something like    :around-compile (lambda (thunk) (let ((*cc* "my-cc")) (funcall thunk))))    or similar
2016-01-31T17:20:11Z LiamH: flip214: Oh OK, thanks.
2016-01-31T17:31:35Z phoe_krk: holy hell
2016-01-31T17:31:44Z phoe_krk: I just realized how simple and logical Lisp is on the bottom
2016-01-31T17:31:58Z phoe_krk: I was reading an example interpreter and, bam, enlightenment
2016-01-31T17:32:51Z antoszka: :)
2016-01-31T17:33:09Z phoe_krk: and it's like
2016-01-31T17:33:16Z phoe_krk: I think I know how to write my own now
2016-01-31T17:33:41Z phoe_krk: even if it's in Haskell.
2016-01-31T17:35:26Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T17:36:35Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T17:38:08Z araujo_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T17:39:06Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T17:40:56Z Sucks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T17:43:32Z phoe_krk: eval env (Symbol "t")  = (env, Symbol "t")    -- The Atom of Truth
2016-01-31T17:43:32Z phoe_krk: eval env (List [])     = (env, List [])       -- The List of Falsehood
2016-01-31T17:43:41Z phoe_krk: I'm getting high over here xD
2016-01-31T17:47:17Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T17:49:11Z PuercoPop: 12:18 *** contrapunctus JOIN
2016-01-31T17:49:38Z loke__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T17:50:05Z contrapunctus: PuercoPop: ?
2016-01-31T17:50:05Z minion: contrapunctus, memo from beach: Listen to jackdaniel, Climacs itself does not have a "display engine".  It uses McCLIM for displaying text.
2016-01-31T17:50:29Z malice joined #lisp
2016-01-31T17:50:47Z contrapunctus: Hm...
2016-01-31T17:51:13Z malice: Hello! Is there some simple CL library, that would allow me defining and parsing command line arguments? I have something like getopts in mind.
2016-01-31T17:51:52Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T17:52:24Z arbv joined #lisp
2016-01-31T17:54:59Z p_l: malice: a whole bjnch, some in QL
2016-01-31T18:00:28Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:03:42Z PuercoPop: contrapunctus: sorry it was a 'misclick' on emacs
2016-01-31T18:05:19Z contrapunctus: PuercoPop: no problem, rather fortunate ;)
2016-01-31T18:05:29Z H4ns: malice: clon, if you like the over-the-top-style libraries.  https://github.com/mcna/command-line-arguments if you like simple (extracted from qitab)
2016-01-31T18:06:50Z contrapunctus: https://github.com/triclops200/quickapp looks like one (listed in awesome-cl)
2016-01-31T18:06:54Z contrapunctus: malice: ^
2016-01-31T18:07:08Z malice: Okay, I will look into it. Thanks!
2016-01-31T18:07:36Z Sucks joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:07:59Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-31T18:08:42Z tclamb joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:13:14Z PuercoPop: malice: the command-line-arguments is really simple, I'd recommend you start w/ that one.
2016-01-31T18:14:29Z baboon` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-31T18:15:06Z digiorgi: I created an example for creating a deployable .jar with ABCL, in https://github.com/digiorgi/abcl-deploy. Tell me if you like it.
2016-01-31T18:20:49Z HisaoNakai joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:21:42Z contrapunctus quit (Disconnected by services)
2016-01-31T18:21:45Z HisaoNakai is now known as contrapunctus
2016-01-31T18:26:03Z artbv joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:26:26Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T18:26:26Z fantazo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:27:28Z ggole joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:28:57Z baboon` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:29:34Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T18:31:12Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T18:31:22Z nullFxn quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-31T18:33:50Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T18:33:58Z hnagamin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T18:38:47Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:40:22Z hnagamin joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:40:45Z karswell` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T18:48:02Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:52:15Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T18:53:41Z Artem__ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:56:29Z ryan_vw_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T18:57:08Z artbv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T18:58:40Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T19:00:24Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:00:34Z phax quit (Client Quit)
2016-01-31T19:05:09Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:06:22Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:07:49Z _tokamach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:09:16Z emaczen joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:11:56Z beach left #lisp
2016-01-31T19:12:05Z emaczen: Is a "babel-encodings" error a libfixposix that ultimately stems from the uiop system?
2016-01-31T19:12:07Z contrapunctus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-31T19:17:49Z emaczen left #lisp
2016-01-31T19:20:27Z _tokamach quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2016-01-31T19:21:56Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2016-01-31T19:29:11Z learning joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:29:47Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T19:29:50Z learning: I'm sure you guys are already aware of it, but I've been really enjoying going through: http://lisptips.com
2016-01-31T19:35:00Z fortitude joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:35:13Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-31T19:38:06Z prxq joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:40:34Z lisse joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:44:01Z _sjs joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:45:14Z ASau` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:45:35Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2016-01-31T19:49:23Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-31T19:49:32Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:51:44Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T19:54:12Z Guest3811 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T19:58:58Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T19:59:20Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T19:59:41Z Guest3811 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T20:00:11Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:03:50Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:06:44Z ASau` is now known as ASau
2016-01-31T20:07:26Z EvW joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:07:43Z impulse joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:08:15Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T20:08:55Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:12:02Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T20:13:51Z Wizek_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:15:47Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-31T20:17:21Z Wizek quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T20:18:36Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-31T20:19:06Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T20:19:26Z kaleun joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:23:25Z Wizek__ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:24:54Z radioninja joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:25:13Z Wizek joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:25:24Z mastokley joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:26:20Z Wizek_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T20:27:20Z Wizek_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:28:23Z Wizek__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-31T20:30:47Z Wizek quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-31T20:33:44Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:38:11Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:38:50Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T20:40:09Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:42:18Z velovix joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:43:32Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T20:47:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:48:54Z Wizek__ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:50:26Z velovix quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T20:50:57Z Wizek joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:52:06Z varjag left #lisp
2016-01-31T20:52:23Z Wizek_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2016-01-31T20:53:02Z varjag joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:53:52Z Wizek__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T20:54:21Z synchromesh: digiorgi: Hi, you could mention your project on #abcl. ABCL is quite capable of loading FASLs from JAR files, though - this was added in the 1.0 release. See e.g. the "Pathname" section on page 37 of the user manual (https://common-lisp.net/project/armedbear/releases/1.3.3/abcl-1.3.3.pdf).
2016-01-31T20:56:33Z digiorgi: synchromesh: i'm using version 1.3.3, and it doesn't  work, abcl simply freezes, when you try it, no error, just not response.
2016-01-31T20:57:47Z rneco joined #lisp
2016-01-31T20:58:33Z synchromesh: digiorgi: The REQIURE mechanism loads code from abcl-contrib.jar, so you could try e.g. (REQUIRE 'JSS) and see whether that works.
2016-01-31T20:58:48Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T20:59:36Z synchromesh: digiorgi: Which OS & JVM are you using?
2016-01-31T21:01:51Z digiorgi: synchromesh: Linux 4.2.0-25-generic (last ubuntu), Java 1.8.0_66-internal Oracle Corporation OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM
2016-01-31T21:03:15Z digiorgi: synchromesh: i also have problems with the cffi, it don't load... "There is an incompatible JNA native library installed on this system"... mmm... it's very hard abcl... jajaja
2016-01-31T21:05:28Z synchromesh: digiorgi: I haven't looked at CFFI with ABCL, but loading code from FASLs should definitely work. You'll probably need to call (JAVA:ADD-TO-CLASSPATH "/path/to/your.jar") first.
2016-01-31T21:06:04Z Zackio: /g
2016-01-31T21:06:06Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:06:08Z Zackio: uh whoops
2016-01-31T21:06:30Z synchromesh: digiorgi: Admittedly if it doesn't work it shouldn't hang.
2016-01-31T21:08:57Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:09:10Z cromulent joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:09:10Z abbe quit (Quit: “Everytime that we are together, it's always estatically palpitating!”)
2016-01-31T21:09:20Z abbe joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:09:48Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:10:04Z digiorgi: synchromesh, i also tried that, but the new thing here is the JSS, i should look at that
2016-01-31T21:10:15Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T21:10:18Z Prion_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:10:33Z quasus` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:12:28Z gigetoo_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:12:39Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T21:12:40Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T21:12:40Z opus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T21:12:40Z yuankode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T21:12:40Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T21:12:40Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T21:12:40Z kaleun quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T21:12:50Z xrash joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:12:55Z gigetoo_ is now known as gigetoo
2016-01-31T21:13:00Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:13:12Z zacharias joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:13:51Z synchromesh: digiorgi: If you posted a paste to #abcl and/or sent a message to the mailing list you'd get more knowledgable minds than mine to help you. There are also ASDF extensions to handle loading from JARs (this is what the REQUIRE support is based on). Browsing the source (http://abcl.org/trac/browser/trunk/abcl/src/org/armedbear/lisp) can be very instructive.
2016-01-31T21:13:58Z tier2villain_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:14:08Z over joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:14:23Z kaleun joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:14:32Z fluter joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:15:44Z digiorgi: synchromesh, thanks for your help, your tips are useful (:
2016-01-31T21:15:50Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-31T21:17:12Z lastack99 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T21:17:48Z quasus` is now known as quasus
2016-01-31T21:20:55Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:25:29Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T21:28:52Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T21:28:53Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-31T21:34:06Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T21:34:28Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:43:50Z synchromesh: digiorgi: No problem, as I say if you post some of your code in a longer-form forum I'm sure you'd get more help to get it working.
2016-01-31T21:47:13Z JitanRo quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2016-01-31T21:47:36Z JitanRo joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:47:43Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:50:28Z digiorgi: synchromesh,  i solved the problems, in some hacky ways. 1) If abcl cant load a fasl inside a jar, i decompress it and then load it. 2) CFFi problems with jna, in the init file i change the class path to certain version of sun jna. (:
2016-01-31T21:52:25Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-31T21:53:07Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T21:53:50Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T21:55:31Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T21:57:54Z nkhodyunya joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:58:21Z wokko joined #lisp
2016-01-31T21:58:44Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-01-31T22:00:00Z emacsomancer quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T22:06:24Z Wizek_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:07:13Z jsgrant joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:09:48Z Wizek quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T22:10:02Z Wizek__ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:13:21Z Wizek_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T22:13:37Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:14:30Z tier2villain_ left #lisp
2016-01-31T22:17:13Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T22:22:50Z Artem__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T22:25:21Z dfcat joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:31:55Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2016-01-31T22:31:57Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2016-01-31T22:34:56Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:39:28Z Jesin joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:41:50Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:43:04Z emacsomancer joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:44:50Z nkhodyunya quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016-01-31T22:46:12Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:47:51Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T22:51:23Z znpy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2016-01-31T22:52:36Z phax joined #lisp
2016-01-31T22:56:07Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2016-01-31T23:00:09Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:00:21Z Xach quit (Changing host)
2016-01-31T23:00:21Z Xach joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:00:28Z gwc joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:01:16Z andreh joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:01:38Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T23:02:09Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:02:20Z salv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T23:02:28Z OrangeShark joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:02:30Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:03:26Z Wizek_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:05:30Z Wizek joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:06:02Z warweasle is now known as warweasle_afk
2016-01-31T23:06:26Z learning quit
2016-01-31T23:07:00Z Wizek__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:08:27Z Wizek_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:08:46Z j_king quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:09:10Z Nikotiin` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:09:12Z Fade quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T23:09:18Z rneco quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:09:19Z Fade joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:09:34Z j_king joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:10:26Z Nikotiini quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:10:26Z moore33 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T23:13:12Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:16:46Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T23:18:07Z digiorgi quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-01-31T23:19:46Z gendl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T23:19:47Z Neet quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T23:20:03Z wyan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:20:15Z sz0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:20:16Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:20:27Z victor_lowther quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T23:20:27Z Neet joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:20:28Z l1x quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:20:44Z rvirding quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T23:20:50Z Prion_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-31T23:21:00Z fiddlerwoaroof: So, the spec says "Although no implementation is required to do so, implementors are strongly encouraged to implement the function slot-value using the function slot-value-using-class described in the Metaobject Protocol.
2016-01-31T23:21:19Z billstclair joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:21:20Z fiddlerwoaroof: Is slot-value usually implemented in terms of slot-value-using-class?
2016-01-31T23:21:20Z gendl joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:21:25Z victor_lowther joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:21:32Z wyan joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:22:22Z sz0 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:23:07Z l1x joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:23:29Z MoALTz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T23:23:46Z NeverDie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-01-31T23:24:15Z replcated_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:24:22Z kjeldahl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:24:22Z Firedancer quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:24:49Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:24:58Z emacsoma` joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:25:13Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:25:53Z feep_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:26:16Z misv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:26:34Z j0ni quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:26:36Z dlowe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:26:38Z jason_m joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:27:12Z misv joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:27:22Z j0ni joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:27:24Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:28:35Z emacsomancer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:28:46Z Bike: In anything with MOP, yeah, which is basically all of the implementations.
2016-01-31T23:29:08Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:29:16Z rvirding joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:29:35Z feep quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:29:46Z Wizek_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:29:58Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2016-01-31T23:30:36Z nhandler quit (Quit: leaving)
2016-01-31T23:30:48Z replcated joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:30:49Z nhandler joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:31:09Z Firedancer joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:31:16Z dlowe joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:32:10Z trinque quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:32:37Z Wizek quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:33:16Z Wizek__ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:33:55Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T23:35:19Z gwc quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2016-01-31T23:35:24Z Petit_Dejeuner: xb
2016-01-31T23:35:29Z Petit_Dejeuner: whoops, wrong buffer
2016-01-31T23:36:00Z Wizek_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:37:34Z warweasle_afk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016-01-31T23:38:34Z kjeldahl joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:39:54Z bcoburn joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:41:36Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:43:52Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:45:00Z prxq quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:45:00Z Wizek_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:47:36Z Wizek__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:48:49Z badkins joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:50:41Z Heranort joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:50:42Z william3 joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:52:06Z Fade quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:52:32Z j_king quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:53:37Z warweasle joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:53:53Z Fade joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:54:16Z j_king joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:55:12Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:55:45Z ecbrown joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:56:01Z Heranort_ joined #lisp
2016-01-31T23:59:02Z Heranort quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2016-01-31T23:59:40Z bolichep quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)