13:34:00 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:00 13:34:00 -!- names: ccl-logbot eeezkil s00pcan doomlord__ dim EvW1 fantazo_ rpgsimmaster_ ASau dtw- namtsui` dsp__ guyal LiamH Guest16888 benny zacharias mishoo Myk267 foreignFunction nowhere_man lduros gleag danlentz arare AeroNotix weie eldariof hiroakip Posterdati keltvek stassats tensorpudding Borbus xristos_ foom TristamWrk tali713 Codynyx_ reb```` naeg_ ferada_ felideon ircbrowse void64 cdidd Mon_Ouie ehu CrazyEddy stepnem Gnist echo-area jack_rabbit edgar-rfx 13:34:00 -!- names: angavrilov hitecnologys Shinmera jduhamel maxter nightshade427 joneshf-laptop Aste123 alezost oleo Khisanth Bike p_l kirin` seangrov` chu hugod ianmcorvidae wws walter victor_lowther rvchangue Vutral Spion drmeiste_ kpreid sabra GuilOooo mathrick fe[nl]ix slyrus konr Nisstyre ragnul araujo trello ltbarcly sirdancealo2 hyperboreean irq0 DrCode igotnolegs- sykopomp scoofy AntiSpamMeta minion antoszka add^_ loke_ tkd MrWoohoo McMAGIC--Copy gensyms capisce 13:34:00 -!- names: patrickwonders zmyrgel joast mlamari kotharia ISF__ lifeng Yamazaki-kun robot-beethoven s0ber sellout- guther froggey _d3f lemoinem Tristam quasisane Kabaka eli drdo hiyosi eak dfox naryl matko aoh balle daimrod nycs jdz surrounder rtoym kanru zeroish aw|incendiary pjb SHODAN joneshf-work jaimef bege dnolen bhyde ckoch786 Tarential asedeno seggy Squid_Tamer davorb sshirokov nicdev |3b| KingNato ivan\ ozzloy karbak djanatyn Jubb Tordek youlysses dotemacs 13:34:00 -!- names: PuffTheMagic yrk NimeshNeema ahungry _schulte_ Nshag easye __main__ nullman aeth DrForr samebchase rotty ggherdov cpape adeht DollyDuplex yroeht2 ramus freiksenet kmder obre otwieracz pr zbigniew lusory JPeterson REPLeffect [SLB] Natch drmeister schoppenhauer BeLucid PuercoPop igorw periodicity03 mal___ yano kbtr peccu2 nightfly vnz snafuchs __wahjava__ Ralt_ aajmakin_ rien_ johs sjl Blkt aerique DGASAU fmu____ varjag d4gg4d rvirding j0ni theBlackDragon 13:34:00 -!- names: ski tic gabot phadthai fikusz clog nitro_idiot brucem milosn mshroyer guaqua cmatei ft Xach Batalyx gluegadget sauerkrause sigjuice arrdem MouseTheLuckyDog srcerer hypno seantallen macrobat Amadiro wormphlegm gko stokachu epsylon newcup tic_ jhj fds zfx quackv4 redline6561 pchrist ineiros_ abend spacefrogg^ setheus entitativity prip_ ``Erik luis` photex doomlord_ yonkeltron Mandus ered mtd zenoli karupanerura rk[] flip216 subtlepath karswell joshe tvaalen 13:34:00 -!- names: vsync madnificent arkx felipe strawmn_ Zhivago tomaw stopbit tragalo loke sbryant arbscht_ Subfusc Adeon mmathis mns ivan djinni` Cheery specbot vhost- hpd H4ns banjiewen MasseR cibs dan64 justinmcp dlowe Krystof housel clop ecraven koisoke bobbysmith0071 Tribal gemelen fmu BlastHardcheese Neptu Fade sytse oGMo pok_ cmbntr gensym cross ve ether0_ gf3 cruxeternus trigen wyan galdor tessier Ash yeltzooo jayne copec eMBee gideonite nuba_ jd__ Watcher7 13:34:00 -!- names: acieroid j_king rabite sfa oconnore ttm sid_cypher expez tychoish Anarch jasom 13:34:17 bejer [~bejer@1508892794.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:34:19 -!- edgar-rfx is now known as edgar-rft 13:34:20 cpt_nemo [~cpt_nemo@2a01:4f8:130:62a2::71] has joined #lisp 13:34:20 gleag: i wasn't comparing it with your cpu 13:34:20 jsnell [~jsnell@178.63.66.6] has joined #lisp 13:34:43 sweet_kid [having@irc.upasna.in] has joined #lisp 13:34:43 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e1f4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:00 I'd think that injecting some concurrency into SBCL's compiler would provide a larger speedup than twiddling with declarations. 13:35:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:35:41 you're saying "injecting" like it's something easy to do 13:36:27 gleag: sbcl is open source, go ahead. 13:36:54 hitecnologys: I'd rather do that to ccl instead, actually. 13:37:32 It's an interesting problem, though. Given that macros can do virtually anything, there seems to be large minefield ahead. 13:38:16 But the processing the fully expanded code after compiler macros and the code generation never mutate the global state, do they? There could be a queue for that. 13:39:34 What is rc-file name for ccl? 13:41:18 hitecnologys: you mean http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter2.4.html ? 13:42:11 Yep, thanks. 13:43:53 And what about ecl? 13:44:00 hitecnologys: there's a #ccl channel dedicated to ccl-specific discussion, BTW. (Not that it's overly active most of the time.) 13:44:25 hitecnologys: don't use, can't help on that one. 13:44:28 gleag: I'm just make benchmarks, I'm not going to use ccl. 13:44:38 s/make/making/ 13:47:27 Is ABCL really that slow? 13:48:57 hitecnologys: impedance mismatch. JVM really isn't a good plaform for this. Either that, or the implementation would have to be much more complicared. 13:48:58 it's not fast 13:49:21 abcl doesn't have a very good compiler, and not a very good runtime 13:49:30 jvm isn't too blame for that 13:49:38 Although invokedynamic could be perhaps mutilated into giving some extra speed these days. 13:50:28 4 minutes passed and still no images generated. It just loads my CPU. Perfect CPU loading machine. 13:52:04 Alright, ABCL haven't passed the test. 13:52:10 stassats: on a side note, how quickly does ccl rebuild itself from scratch on your...ehm..."slow" machine? 13:52:17 No images generated in approximately 10 minutes. 13:52:53 gleag: why do you take so much attention to me making a statement that i5-2520M is slower than i5-3230M? 13:53:05 gleag: he didn't say that, he compared his CPU to mine. 13:53:18 nilsi [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has joined #lisp 13:53:25 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:39 stassats: I'm simply interested in the number of seconds it takes, obviously. 13:53:54 and i don't want to recompile it 13:57:58 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:00:09 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:02:37 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:28 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:03:33 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 14:03:53 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:05:05 ikki [~ikki@187.208.248.62] has joined #lisp 14:06:05 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:07:27 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 14:08:37 ecl doesn't like long strings. And arrays. 14:09:58 -!- dtw- is now known as dtw 14:14:07 Added new graphs: http://94.137.40.198:8080/. Haven't analyzed data yet. 14:17:10 smull [~smull@port-212-202-120-50.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:17:54 Is tabs style OK? 14:19:03 ehu [~ehu@84-53-89-201.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 14:20:10 Wallet [~Wallet@177.16.98.139] has joined #lisp 14:20:38 hitecnologys: st-json is the one I use. I used to use CL-JSON, but it has a problem where the keys are parsed into keywords, which would allow external DoS attacks by forcing interning of millions of keywords 14:20:48 besides, st-json is faster :-) 14:21:05 hitecnologys: the implementation switching in the charts hurts a lot. 14:22:21 gleag: why? 14:22:53 ehu` [~ehu@109.32.216.194] has joined #lisp 14:23:04 hitecnologys: because unless I do something wrong, I have to scroll up, switch, and scroll back down, which is distracting. 14:24:12 gleag: and how do you suggest to implement this? Headers + #id-anchors? 14:24:31 hitecnologys: switching for each image separately 14:24:38 hitecnologys: never mind, I've just found a workaround: open the page in two browser tabs. :) 14:24:55 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:16 -!- ehu [~ehu@84-53-89-201.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:25:27 ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:37 stassats: hm, OK, I can do that. 14:26:50 przl [~przlrkt@p5DE4B35B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:02 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:35:30 -!- Guest16888 [~veer@pool-96-254-154-127.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:35:46 nipra [~nipra@122.177.7.50] has joined #lisp 14:36:20 knob [~knob@66-50-29-51.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:53 -!- ehu` [~ehu@109.32.216.194] has quit [] 14:36:54 -!- irq0 [~irq0@amy.irq0.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 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ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:35 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@75-142-59-12.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:47 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:57:14 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.32.216.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:57:50 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:58:24 -!- maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:48 maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:52 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 16:09:34 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 16:11:22 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:13:09 Fuh, made separate tab for each benchmark: http://46.233.198.239:8080/ 16:13:44 -!- maczor [~user@46.12.81.88.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has left #lisp 16:14:08 mpstyler [~user@176.73.154.121] has joined #lisp 16:14:40 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.148.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:49 I would like to learn more about clos in an implementation indepependent manner. I am trying to read amop but I'd really like to find a repo to look at as well. 16:15:00 hitecnologys: the line graphs do not seem to change 16:16:37 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:16:52 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:17:36 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has joined #lisp 16:17:52 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 16:18:09 stassats: fixed. 16:18:30 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:18:50 -!- mpstyler [~user@176.73.154.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:20:13 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:42 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:43 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:21:43 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:21:56 ubikation: amop has an implementation of closette included right in it, so you can read that, or you can just google around for a link to closette online. 16:22:18 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:22:37 jewel [~jewel@105-236-76-4.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:22:54 ubikation: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/oop/clos/closette/0.html I think it's here. 16:23:21 probably easier to digest than 20 pages of unhighlighted printed source code in a book. :) 16:24:13 Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-0941e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 -!- Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-0941e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:02 Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-0941e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:25:45 -!- Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-0941e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:47 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:01 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 16:26:21 sykopomp: thank you! 16:29:53 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:55 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:40 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:33:53 Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:03 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:31 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.123] has joined #lisp 16:37:51 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 16:39:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:40:47 coventry [~user@cpe-74-78-222-234.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:37 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-128-84.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:52 I'm almost done with analysis. Should I add anything else? 16:45:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-76-4.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:47:26 Hydan [~Adium@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:48:12 hitecnologys: madnificent would be pretty happy to see those numbers for jsown, I bet. 16:48:36 sykopomp: I hope so. 16:49:12 hitecnologys: I believe jsown has an api that lets you parse only the parts of the object that you want 16:49:22 hitecnologys: are you a native English speaker? 16:49:30 -!- Codynyx_ [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:49:43 hitecnologys: it might make sense to add a benchmark that uses that feature. It might actually be significantly faster, or it might not. 16:50:21 -!- eeezkil [~NickServ@78.90.79.43] has quit [] 16:50:52 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:05 AeroNotix: nope. I'm Russian. 16:51:19 Is this just a fuck around or are you wanting to make it quite 'official' ? 16:51:35 because there are quite a few grammatical mistakes. The data is very interesting, though. 16:51:46 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-185-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:52:06 Ok, let's have it in Russian, and you'll read it in the Russian version. 16:52:13 Can do 16:52:19 I have no place to publish it. =( 16:52:31 I was going to offer my help to clean it up a bit 16:52:46 web 16:52:49 sykopomp: I don't see any description of such functionality in docs. Where is it? 16:53:03 pjb: I have no blog and no nothing. 16:53:05 What's the latest and greatest in terms of source-level stepping debuggers for lisp? I came across the froglet paper recently, and I'm aware of edebug. Has there been any work on code instrumentation which recognizes when macro arguments have been spliced into a macro expansion? 16:53:13 SLOC: ST-JSON 275 vs CL-JSON 3.4k 16:53:18 why such a difference? 16:53:25 Clisp? 16:53:56 I don't remember all results so I can't tell by only numbers. 16:54:19 hitecnologys: https://github.com/madnificent/jsown/blob/master/tests/reader.lisp#L41-L44 16:54:27 hitecnologys: I have a 'spare' remote server if you'd like to set up a small blog on it 16:54:32 hitecnologys: second argument to PARSE, I think 16:54:40 hitecnologys: there are a lot of free $0 web hosting. 16:55:03 hitecnologys: you could just push it on github for example. 16:55:03 hitecnologys: digitalocean.com 16:55:04 sykopomp: aha, got it. Working on it. 16:55:17 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DE4B35B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:28 hitecnologys: https://github.com/madnificent/jsown/blob/master/reader.lisp#L503-L505 16:55:32 pjb: I thought about github. It just doesn't sound like a good idea for me. 16:55:54 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:56:16 I'm not saying it's a good idea, I'm saying it's an objection to the "I have no place to publish". 16:56:38 hitecnologys: correction, it's right in the readme, but it's not so obvious because the line with it is too long. Second example under "parsing json objects" 16:57:03 AeroNotix: no, thanks, I have server too. I'm just too lazy to set up blog. =P 16:57:11 hitecnologys: ah ok 16:57:29 sykopomp: yeah, found it. Thanks. 16:58:11 nilsi [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has joined #lisp 16:58:11 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B20C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:15 hitecnologys: yes me too. But you can just start the web server, and put up static pages. You don't need a blog server, just start you text document with

16:58:32 pjb: already did that. 16:58:37 good 16:58:45 Viva old-style web! 16:59:15 hitecnologys: you may also want to have benchmarks with large objects and heavily-nested objects 16:59:18 I mean, even top-notch web designers come back to this plain text old style. Some recent articles on ycombinator news. 16:59:20 Another problem is that I have dynamic IP so sometimes this page won't be available (until server will update IP for no-ip domain). 16:59:42 hitecnologys: vps are really cheap 16:59:45 hitecnologys: that's where free hosting comes. You can clone your home server there. 16:59:47 sykopomp: I have some with large. 16:59:49 check out digitalocean.com 16:59:56 przl [~przlrkt@p5DE4B35B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:00:03 ah ok 17:00:06 madnificent: ping 17:00:23 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.222.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:01:04 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:01:22 AeroNotix: I'd be glad to have VPS but I have no idea how to explain this to my parents so they can give me some money each month to pay for domain and server. I really have no time to work somewhere and I can't freelance because I can't do anything well. 17:01:46 hitecnologys: I'll set you one up 17:02:04 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 17:02:34 hitecnologys: https://sites.google.com 17:03:21 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:04 pjb: nah, too simple for me. 17:04:41 hitecnologys: then some freeshell allow also for web hosting. 17:04:59 See http://freeshell.org/ 17:05:20 Oh, I know this site. 17:10:47 scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:13:12 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-191-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:13:52 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-165-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:11 jewel [~jewel@105-236-76-4.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:17:48 atphalix [~chatzilla@41.141.123.5] has joined #lisp 17:18:04 eeezkil_ [~NickServ@78.90.79.43] has joined #lisp 17:18:14 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:18:21 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:19:52 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:21:47 how do I use djula? I can't seem to find where to point to a template and say "render this with this data" 17:23:09 klltkr [~klltkr@host86-141-208-84.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:19 Xach: is quickdocs your project, too? 17:23:20 ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:54 BitPuffin [~quassel@c83-254-19-137.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:26:06 joj581 [~joj581@89.204.139.101] has joined #lisp 17:26:38 -!- ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:26:57 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B20C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:54 I think I've figured it out 17:36:41 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DE4B35B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:55 hitecnologys: for very different reasons, I have a similar problem in public research: it's insanely hard to setup frequent payements for infrastructure 17:37:59 AeroNotix, Quickdocs is not Xach's project. 17:38:14 Quadrescence: oh well 17:38:29 hitecnologys: so I sometimes use http://gandi.net/ for virtual hosting, because you can pay a vast amount in advance 17:38:49 -!- ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:29 nowhere_man: yeah, I have lots of things to develop and I have no money and time to develop them. 17:42:21 ehu [~ehu@109.32.216.194] has joined #lisp 17:46:43 ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:49:18 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.32.216.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:50:36 -!- Hydan [~Adium@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:51:31 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat100.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:53:05 hitecnologys: if you still live at your parents, you have more time than most of us. write programs, sell them, get money, write more programs. 17:54:23 nilsi [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has joined #lisp 17:55:51 hugoduncan [~user@70.24.182.79] has joined #lisp 17:56:38 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279346953.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:56:39 pjb: I'm 16 y/o, who is going to buy programs from me? 17:58:49 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat100.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:59:49 webos [~webos@cst-prg-52-10.cust.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 18:02:36 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: #1=("Zzzz" . #1#)] 18:02:36 przl [~przlrkt@p5DE4B35B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:02:55 trebor_home [~email@dslb-178-004-067-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:39 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:33 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:29 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:10 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:27 how do you get slime to expand something once in a macrolet, again? macroexpand-all is kind of nasty 18:11:30 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:12:13 hitecnologys: no-one has to know that you're 16 18:12:25 MoALTz [~no@host86-137-70-230.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:50 AeroNotix: that's too risky, I can have lots of problems with law in this case. 18:16:00 I guess 18:16:22 hitecnologys: As AeroNotix says, on the Internet, nobody knows you're a 16 year old dog. :) 18:16:55 exactly 18:17:35 hitecnologys: nobody cares how old you are. AppStore, PlayStore, your own web site via paypal, etc. 18:17:49 Even if I would work for someone, what can I do? I'm definitely not a good programmer. 18:18:05 php is a money-maker 18:18:19 dumbass MBA's with their grand new social media ideas 18:18:20 Oh, no php, please. I'd better kill myself. 18:18:29 then ruby on rails, idiots gonna idiot. 18:18:44 Ruby is better. 18:18:50 there ya go 18:18:55 hitecnologys: most programmers are not good programmers. 18:19:03 That doesn't prevent them to earn a lot of money,. 18:19:05 so there are websites you can go to where people put up a task and then people bid on that task 18:19:33 getacoder.com for example. 18:19:58 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:43 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:50 I don't like when people rely on me. I'm always late and stuff so I break their plans. =P 18:23:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DE4B35B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:03 think of it as a means to learn how to not do that 18:24:03 I'm just too scared that I'll let someone down. 18:24:10 Wimp 18:24:16 ;) 18:24:25 if a function returns a lambda, how can I assign that to a variable? (let doesn't work, I guess because it works in the wrong namespace) 18:24:44 (setf (fdefinition 'foo) ...) 18:25:02 but you probably mean something liket (let ((foo (my-function))) (funcall foo ...) 18:25:09 fikusz: (let ((whatver (function-returning-lambda))) (funcall haha)) 18:25:13 (let ((f #'(lambda () 10))) (funcall f)) 18:25:17 s/haha/whatever/ 18:29:02 lufu [~user@5.254.134.58] has joined #lisp 18:30:13 ok, got it. thanks! 18:30:16 pjb: what is the definition of a "good programmer" again, anyway? 18:30:48 -!- Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 18:31:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:26 Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:59 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:33:29 yacks [~py@103.6.158.106] has joined #lisp 18:34:59 In a old book I'm reading a CL function named unpack is mentioned. It works like this: (unpack 'word) (w o r d). SBCL doesn't know unpack though... does it just have another name nowadays or is it simply not included? 18:35:22 that's definitely not in modern cl 18:35:44 are you sure it wasn't defined by the book? 18:35:57 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.134.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:36 mc40 [~mc@164.138.86.43] has joined #lisp 18:36:43 lufu [~user@5.254.134.58] has joined #lisp 18:36:54 (defun unpack (s) (map 'list (lambda (c) (intern (string c))) (symbol-name s))) 18:37:05 lufu: you're talking about Lisp 1.5 or something like that. 18:37:22 -!- maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:37:27 Nowadays we would just use strings and characters, rather than packing and unpacking symbols. 18:37:28 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:29 "Old" meaning 1962, I guess. 18:38:52 hitecnologys: yes, letting somebody down would feel bad. That's why you can concentrate on writing programs for yourself or your kind, on your free time. 18:39:02 -!- eeezkil_ [~NickServ@78.90.79.43] has quit [] 18:39:09 Although I vaguely recall that the a funcrion like this was called EXPLODE at the time... 18:39:09 That came form MacLisp, I suppose. MacLispers used symbols as strings. 18:39:31 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@host86-141-208-84.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:39:38 "that a function like this"... 18:39:40 pjb: that's what I do all the time: write for myself. 18:39:45 Like in com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.string:explode and com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.string:implode ? :-) 18:41:04 Well, the book is from 1989. But just now I saw that it doesn't claim that unpack/pack are part of cl. It just says that some lisps have these two functions predefined. 18:41:30 Thanks for your answers; especially pjb. 18:41:41 i don't think any modern implementatin is going to have those 18:41:43 lufu: anyways, the point is that it's a good exercise to implement it. Too bad I've done it for you above and in cesarum! :-) 18:42:03 lufu: apparently, you're reading an old book written by someone who was reading an old book. ;) 18:42:38 -!- webos [~webos@cst-prg-52-10.cust.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:42:39 :-) 18:43:14 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:43:24 You mean old^2 book? 18:44:43 Like, google pagerank algorithm being written in 1940? 18:45:35 Have no idea about that. 18:46:22 -!- mc40 [~mc@164.138.86.43] has quit [Quit: mc40] 18:47:04 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-042-025-054.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:47:19 pjb: or OCR technology from 1920s? :) 18:48:31 webos [~webos@cst-prg-52-10.cust.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 18:50:35 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:56 OCR was invented long before 1920s. Approximately a few thousands years ago. 18:51:58 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat100.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:52:06 hitecnologys: I meant machine OCR. 18:52:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:52:26 Technically, me too. 18:52:50 przl [~przlrkt@p5DE4B35B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:52:53 hi, in postmodern, I would like to replace query-dao% from defun to defmethod (so I can add around methods in my app) 18:53:17 http://www.google.com/patents/US2026329 18:53:19 can I add (fmakunbound 'query-dao%) and then (defmethod ....) in my source file? 18:53:20 We're just very complicated machines made of organic tissue programmed to find one question. 18:54:19 or maybe surround it all with (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) .... )? 18:54:19 But that's not invention. That's a process that occurs naturally in your head. The writing, yes, but we already had the circuitry. 18:54:29 -!- atphalix [~chatzilla@41.141.123.5] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 17.0.8/20130807010024]] 18:55:14 Isn't fmakunbound in a source file sort of unusual? 18:55:39 gleag: not sure, I just don't use it except in interactive slime 18:55:51 gleag: how can you be so sure? Maybe we were designed by someone and our planet is just a big fake to make us think otherwise. 18:58:50 sunwukong [~androirc@78.139.2.103] has joined #lisp 19:00:24 hitecnologys: Along the same lines, why not go directly for Russel's five-minute hypothesis? 19:01:08 -!- Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 19:01:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:03:07 puchacz: I sort of have never understood the practical value of fmakunbound in real-world use, so I'm not sure why you want to use it in the first place. 19:03:55 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat100.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:03:56 gleag: it makes perfect sense when you think about CL development as playing around in an environment. 19:03:59 gleag: yeah, could be that too. 19:04:04 as opposed to having a "scriptng" mentality. 19:04:17 scripting* 19:05:35 mcspiff [~user@bas16-ottawa23-1242440049.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:05:52 sykopomp: if your source files only contain the fleshed out, permanent functionality, and you reload them into a clean environment, anything temporary or obsolete will be left behind anyway. 19:06:23 I suspect that atuff like fmakunbound is sort of a relict from the Lisp Machine world or something like that. 19:06:42 gleag: yes, I know, but that's not how I develop CL. Sometimes I'll restart, but I do keep a single lisp image running for days sometimes. 19:07:02 and that's a perfectly normal way to develop CL. In fact, I would encourage it modulo the occasional restart to check for sanity. 19:07:27 sykopomp: that's perfectly fine, but I imagine that in that siruation, I'd simply not use the function anymore and leave it alone. 19:07:46 i don't see any problem with allowing you to actually get rid of it, though 19:08:05 gleag: but that would be ugly and potentially cause problems while you dev :) 19:08:17 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:08:20 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 19:08:22 Oh, I'm not saying that fmakunbound should be fmakunbound itself. ;-) 19:08:39 plus, considering how much metaprogramming is available in CL, you may even write the occasional macro that defines a bunch of functions, and you need to unbind them manually on redefine, potentially. 19:09:02 It's just that I'd use it in fairly rare interactive cases. 19:09:04 well, I'm saying there is very much a point, and it's very relevant. It's like saying you shouldn't have defstruct around just because you never use it. 19:09:22 I think one thing i really like about CL is that it has things that I would use rarely. 19:09:30 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:33 and I do keep running into situations when those things end up being quite handy. 19:09:38 i'm personally more fond of unintern, since that oughta clear the binding plus it fixes my tab completion 19:09:43 sykopomp, gleag: ok, fmakunbound + defmethod worked, I surrounded it with eval when just to be sure :) 19:09:46 is it a good way? 19:10:00 puchacz: defgeneric, not defmethod. 19:10:03 sykopomp: y-or-n-p? :D 19:10:08 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:10:11 gleag: yup. 19:10:14 stuff like that. 19:10:19 if you don't use it, don't use it. 19:10:33 "Objects of type FUNCTION cannot be dumped into fasl files." 19:10:36 what does this mean? 19:10:41 I have a macro which defines functions 19:10:46 I think it's something to do with that, right? 19:10:46 Or wordy Enhlish numerals in FORMAT? How US-centric... 19:10:51 sykopomp: why? defgeneric is added automatically when I define defmethod 19:10:52 puchacz: you can get some really funky unexpected behavior if you do a defmethod without a defgeneric (particularly when it comes to &key/&optional/&rest 19:11:04 AeroNotix: it means you have a literal function as the result of a macro (i.e. at compile time), so you probably made a mistake somewhere 19:11:09 puchacz: I would argue that it's a code smell to have a defmethod without a corresponding defgeneric. 19:11:19 Bike: that's the idea 19:11:26 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DE4B35B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:33 AeroNotix: usually you would have like, the lambda expression as a result 19:11:39 sykopomp: hmmm, I almost never bothered to have defgeneric 19:11:50 Bike: https://gist.github.com/AeroNotix/6335639 ? 19:11:52 puchacz: I always write defgeneric. :) 19:12:28 I even started picking up the habit of writing defgeneric forms for :accessor/:reader/:writer methods. 19:12:41 puchacz: I believe that defgeneric has a few more options you might want to use. 19:12:45 AeroNotix: yeah, so you're trying to get the compiler to dump the result of compile-template, which i assume is a function. it doesn't have to be able to do that, just deal with source 19:13:02 Bike: I see, ok 19:13:05 Thanks 19:13:20 sykopomp: ok :) but, (eval-when .... fmakunbound + defgeneric/defmethod) in source is a good way of changing defun to method, isn't it? or it just worked by accident? 19:13:20 AeroNotix: you could expand into (let ((tmpl ...)) (defun ...)) instead 19:13:26 yeah that's what I'm doing now 19:13:31 has anyone ever gotten the QUiLoader stuff working with commonqt? 19:13:44 puchacz: it's enough, yes. 19:13:50 thanks 19:14:10 -!- youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:14:32 puchacz: try this code out: (defmethod foo (a b)) (defmethod foo (a b &rest stuff)) 19:15:06 your defmethod definitions should all depend on a single defgeneric definition somewhere, otherwise you have to actually keep track of which defmethod was the first one. 19:15:15 sykopomp: ok - I see what you mean; but I try to have all methods with the same signature 19:16:09 if you want a big default method, you can use the defgeneric shorthand for that: (defgeneric foo (a b &rest) (:method (a b) "hi")) 19:16:26 y 19:16:43 puchacz: ah it's your code in the end. I just think it's good to share with people a bit of stuff about how CLOS is meant to be used and some potential pitfalls. 19:16:58 sure, nw :) 19:18:54 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@116.94-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:18:54 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@116.94-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 19:18:54 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:20:46 wws-ubuntu [~wws@p-69-195-60-12.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:59 przl [~przlrkt@p5DE4B35B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:26:48 -!- webos [~webos@cst-prg-52-10.cust.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:27:07 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.134.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:51 -!- joj581 [~joj581@89.204.139.101] has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:28:12 lufu [~user@5.254.134.58] has joined #lisp 19:30:48 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.134.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:28 lufu [~user@5.254.134.58] has joined #lisp 19:35:12 LiamH [~none@96.231.222.26] has joined #lisp 19:36:30 -!- cpt_nemo [~cpt_nemo@2a01:4f8:130:62a2::71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:50 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:44:00 -!- wws-ubuntu [wws@clozure-6AFF071F.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 19:45:19 -!- wws-ubuntu [~wws@p-69-195-60-12.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:45:50 -!- hugoduncan [~user@70.24.182.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:31 hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279346953.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:46:36 Hydan [~Adium@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:47:38 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.198.239] has quit [Quit: zzz...] 19:47:44 -!- sunwukong [~androirc@78.139.2.103] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 19:48:47 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:33 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:50:50 -!- EvW1 [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:51:52 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:55:55 -!- void64 [~luke@178.122.6.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:21 void64 [~luke@178.122.6.76] has joined #lisp 20:00:47 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:00:55 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@c83-254-19-137.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 242 seconds] 20:01:37 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:43 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat100.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:07:54 klltkr [~klltkr@host86-141-208-84.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:51 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:33 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:44 josemanuel [~josemanue@65.236.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:12:32 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@65.236.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:53 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 20:20:58 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@75-142-59-12.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:50 -!- NimeshNeema is now known as AgentSmith 20:21:59 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 20:25:35 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-201-90.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:27:04 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:50 -!- AgentSmith is now known as NimeshNeema 20:30:28 davazp [~user@92.251.220.19.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 20:30:52 AeroNotix: objects of type FUNCTION may be closures. Closures cannot be dumped, because basically, they may drag with them the whole lisp image. 20:31:13 What does the term "dumped" mean? 20:31:39 (defvar *f* (function f)) 20:32:13 For one simple case showing the difficulties, if you try to compile a file like: (let (x) (defun s (y) (setf x y)) (defun g () x)) (defvar *f* (function s)) 20:32:18 -!- NimeshNeema is now known as AgentBrown 20:32:55 -!- mcspiff [~user@bas16-ottawa23-1242440049.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:58 hmm 20:33:06 or if you have three files, one per expression: (let (x) (defun s (y) (setf x y)) (defun g () x)) (defvar *f* (function s)) (defvar *g* (function g)) 20:33:27 the problem would be that the files containing *f* or *g* would actually have to store the same closure (the variable x). 20:33:49 I see 20:33:53 interesting 20:33:53 And here, s and g are defined "statically". Imagine if we're talking about dynamically generated closures. 20:34:02 right 20:34:09 makes a little more sense 20:34:26 (defvar *g* (loop for i below 10 collect (let ((i i))(list (lambda () i) (lambda (j) (setf i j)))))) 20:34:59 So basically, what you have to deal with that, is #+clisp ext:saveinitmem or the various image saving function.s 20:35:22 ok 20:35:30 bit lost but I think I understand 20:36:23 Thanks 20:36:54 Remember, closure = object; for CLOS objects, you have to define make-load-form methods on your classes to let the compiler "save" your objects to a fasl file. For closure there's no predefined way to serialize or make a load form for them. You have to write the code yourself. 20:37:02 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:86c0:40af:bfd:ed2:fd6b] has joined #lisp 20:37:29 aha, interesting 20:38:50 guys, in sbcl, can I see in trace what method (specialisations) are actually called? 20:39:14 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat100.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:39:28 I'm thinking Djula needs a doc rewrite - when I finish my current project I am surely going to dive into that. Currently the docs are shockingly bad. 20:40:08 Xach: do you know where you're pulling the djula source from? The one on GitHub is on the package you're sending out (you're sending a better package out fwiw) 20:40:46 mpstyler [~user@176.73.154.121] has joined #lisp 20:44:44 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:47:50 -!- CrazyEddy [~Russianiz@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:14 -!- mpstyler [~user@176.73.154.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:51:14 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-185-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:53:51 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:54:18 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:53 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:49 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:10 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:23 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:56:32 -!- Hydan [~Adium@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:56:48 Hydan [~Adium@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:57:57 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-165-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:26 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 20:59:30 Greetings lispers. 21:01:03 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-165-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:23 greetings 21:02:59 For some reason, LispWorks doesn't properly set *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*, the most reliable way to get the default directory is #'hcl:get-working-directory. Is there an analogous function in SBCL, like in sb-ext, or should I just use *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*? 21:05:03 ThomasH: I believe asdf has a portable one that you can use. 21:05:16 ubikation [~quassel@ip-64-134-132-133.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:53 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:06:48 sykopomp: Thanks. Now that you mention it, I think someone recommended that to me in the past. Something seems wrong about using ASDF as a portable pathname library. :-) 21:07:08 ThomasH: in PCL you write one, it's about 150 lines iirc 21:07:12 did you read that book? It's quite a good one 21:07:14 those parts of asdf are split off, i think 21:07:26 and anyway, asdf is a must-have library 21:07:34 so you've already probably got installed 21:07:39 it+ 21:07:55 yes, but it's must-have for systems, not for pathnames. 21:08:05 well yeah, but my point is that you already have it 21:08:20 Bike: Isn't that ASDF3? I quit tracking the ASDF repository and have just been relying on the version in Quicklisp. 21:08:28 no idea 21:09:39 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 21:09:56 Can I just ask this: Does anyone actually use Djula? I've asked a myriad of questions about it only to not get any answers. 21:10:18 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 21:10:43 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 21:11:19 UIOP is the library of functions 21:11:36 AeroNotix: I don't know offhand but https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects will have that info 21:12:00 thanks, didn't know that existed 21:13:25 Ugh, the bigger problem with relying on ASDF as a portable pathname library is that you have to take care to specify where to load it. I thought I was getting the quicklisp one, but it appears on SBCL, I'm getting the built-in one. 21:14:03 BitPuffin [~quassel@c83-254-19-137.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:14:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-76-4.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:15:07 i rely on ASDF as a source of headaches 21:15:51 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DE4B35B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:56 -!- AgentBrown is now known as NimeshNeema 21:18:31 Screw it, I'll just use *D-P-D* on SBCL until I run into a case where it doesn't do what I want it to do. 21:19:12 Like I said before, PCL writes a pathname library which is supposed to be fine enough 21:19:15 and it's really small too 21:19:54 Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:43 When a template variable is an object in Djula, what do I need to pass in? 21:21:01 to answer your earlier question: nobody here uses djula 21:21:06 ok cool 21:21:08 will stop asking 21:21:12 i don't even know what it is 21:21:22 Common Lisp implementation of Jinja2 21:21:29 (django's template library) 21:21:36 (i still don't) 21:21:39 :/ 21:21:46 well I thought it was obvious from what I just said 21:21:52 excuse me, how would I find out what other libraries use cl-quickcheck? 21:21:55 we're not all web programmers 21:22:00 django: (Noun) Python web framework 21:22:18 good for it 21:22:34 oO 21:23:34 ubikation: try quickdocs 21:24:11 Bah: "Required by: None" :/ 21:24:28 gleag: thank you! 21:24:40 that's kind of weird that nobody is using it... 21:24:50 using what? 21:24:58 cl-quickcheck 21:24:58 cl-quickcheck 21:25:11 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-228-24.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:25:37 what is it? 21:26:02 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-200-5.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:26:16 a testing framework - from what I know it kind of generates random permutations for testing? 21:26:26 Quickcheck is a testing strategy that I think just figures out what arguments a function takes and then passes in random values for it 21:26:27 -!- pjb is now known as Guest23991 21:26:48 Haskell uses it a lot due to how haskell works mainly on pure functions and that method of testing is pretty good for languages like that 21:26:52 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:26:57 (not a haskeller so I'm not super clued in on it) 21:27:32 is it just because it's a test thing? how many does quickdocs claim depend on 5am? 21:28:18 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:28:19 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:28:34 I don't know. it looks like fiveam and eos are used by a lot of libraries though. 21:28:52 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:29:15 quickcheck is not a very good form of testing for languages other than Haskell-style ones really. 21:29:27 It's useful in conjunction with proper unittests 21:29:48 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:30:30 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:30:38 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 21:30:43 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 21:30:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:30:53 stefil looks really cool... but I can't get the dwim.hu page to work 21:31:16 streams are really cool and are easily accessibly, I like that. 21:31:28 s/bly/ble 21:32:24 testing, shmesting, just write it right the first time! 21:32:45 :P 21:33:09 And don't release until it's perfect. Then, since it's perfect, you won't have to ever change it. 21:34:36 francogrex [~user@109.128.104.235] has joined #lisp 21:35:19 these are two implementations of fibonacci functions, which according to you looks more "elegant"? http://paste.lisp.org/display/138625 21:35:58 francogrex: wrong channel 21:36:04 you want #asm 21:36:24 are these just the linear algorithm? 21:36:49 and why are you writing a return sequence in the sbcl vop? 21:36:49 yes the linear, they are the same. I will ask at asm also 21:37:14 also, doesn't this only work if the results are fixnums 21:37:20 I did *not* know you could inline as easily as that 21:37:24 and specify to which offsets to put temporaries 21:37:41 AeroNotix: what, declaim inline? 21:37:42 and use labels in the wrong way 21:37:51 stassats: you mean "my-result" ? 21:37:58 Bike: the inline-asm 21:38:08 francogrex: i mean (inst MOV ESP EBP) (inst POP EBP) (inst RET) 21:38:17 AeroNotix: well it's implementation crud 21:38:35 Bike: it's easier than other languages 21:39:05 i know this is just an example but fib is a pretty bad one, i mean you can't even use it with (fib 40) 21:39:15 plus the algorithm is bad asymptotically 21:39:16 AeroNotix: it's not really, I just want to show off to others what lisp implementations can do 21:39:43 well, (fib 40) on my shitty 32-bit machine, anyway 21:39:44 francogrex: it's not what? 21:39:45 Bike: yes only fixnums, bugs quickly 21:40:11 not great to use assembly 21:40:14 if you wanted to toy with asm you could do something more useful like pkhuong's computed-goto stuff 21:41:11 stassats: can you suggest an improvement in annotation? 21:41:37 dbm0 [~ase@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 21:42:58 i mean, this is the sort of code that ought to be compiled, not written in asm, you know? 21:44:02 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:86c0:40af:bfd:ed2:fd6b] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:45:24 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.134.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:20 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:55 in #asm they prefer the SBCL VOP one 21:52:02 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.222.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:53:13 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abom8.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:54:21 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:54:38 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:56:04 -!- ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:05:13 -!- tic [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:05:20 tic [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:06:14 -!- tic_ [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:24 tic_ [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:10:07 francogrex: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138625#1 22:11:08 -!- void64 [~luke@178.122.6.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:29 so, in the original, what's the deal with ":sc any-reg :offset sb-vm::ebp-offset"? i thought the point of this stuff was that the compiler can allocate regs as it likes 22:11:29 In the slime debugger, when you get an asdf:compile-error, is there a command that will open the offending file at the point of the error? Using sldb-show-source shows me the ASDF source. 22:12:08 Bike: if you want to use, say, string operations or the LOOP instruction, you need to force things to be at the right place 22:12:27 but in the original, there's no point, of course 22:12:54 would you normally say "any-reg" if you wanted that though, is what i'm asking, 22:13:40 void64 [~luke@178.122.6.76] has joined #lisp 22:15:38 for fixnums, any-reg, yes 22:17:40 stassats: that's what I wanted; someone pro to show me how to really use VOP 22:17:52 efficiently I mean 22:18:06 "don't" 22:18:40 so "any-reg" doesn't mean "choose any reg", then... "sc" is "storage class", so, is it saying to use a gp reg instead of a float register or memory, or something? 22:19:15 but my use of EAX-TN etc... was to show that I can select the register that I want to use 22:19:36 Bike: it's mostly to tell the compiler how to deal with it 22:20:10 for example, if it's say unsigned-reg, and another VOP is any-reg, it'll automatically unbox the fixnum 22:20:30 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-pyrttrcwdaafhsbp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:20:41 i see. 22:21:03 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:12 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-gofunhlztrfguxjb] has joined #lisp 22:22:20 and why is the ccl version using the stack? 22:24:30 stassats: the disassembly of ccl isn't as good as the one og sbcl... I mostly copied the disassembly code .. 22:25:24 so this is like showing off inline asm in gcc by copying gcc output into source text, huh 22:25:25 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:25:50 Bike: :) yeah something like that 22:26:07 you'd have to ask clozure guys, ccl may have some special calling convetions, and ccl also partitions the register set into pointer types and non-pointer types to help the GC be precise 22:26:36 so blindly using some registers may be wrong 22:27:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 22:28:06 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:47 freiksenet: http://fiorasm.tumblr.com/post/52251266650/ try porting this :) 22:31:02 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:16 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:31:17 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 22:31:27 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.220.19.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:07 -!- francogrex [~user@109.128.104.235] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:39:30 -!- dbm0 [~ase@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:42 wgl [~wgl@209.242.26.41] has joined #lisp 22:53:09 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 22:55:13 ltbarcly__ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:08 -!- ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:12 -!- Guest23991 is now known as pjb 22:59:53 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:45 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:49 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:06 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:14:03 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.82.220] has joined #lisp 23:20:26 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:20:49 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.82.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:21:58 -!- Hydan [~Adium@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:05 what's the best library for futures/promises? 23:22:17 cl-politician 23:23:45 looks corrupt :'( 23:24:03 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@host86-141-208-84.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:27:50 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:33 http://common-lisp.net/project/clazy/ looks really interesting; but it's weird I found it via google instead of cliki 23:31:20 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 23:34:08 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod 23:34:38 -!- hugod is now known as Guest83958 23:35:12 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@unaffiliated/keltvek] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:27 -!- Guest83958 is now known as hugoduncan 23:36:10 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod` 23:40:56 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:39 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.82.220] has joined #lisp 23:46:09 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 23:50:00 ikki [~ikki@201.165.170.26] has joined #lisp 23:55:09 -!- Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 23:55:47 youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:31 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzZ] 23:56:41 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.4.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:57:12 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:34 Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:01:37 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.82.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:02:42 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.82.220] has joined #lisp 00:05:30 -!- doomlord__ [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:08:55 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:50 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:30 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.165.170.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:24 ikki [~ikki@201.165.170.26] has joined #lisp 00:16:23 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:56 -!- youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:18:42 ubikation, more lazy stuff I wrote, probably very similar to CLAZY: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/3b90fc1715a332bcf303b33c6c62a838769a8e6d/delay.lisp?at=default 00:18:55 example at line 68 00:18:57 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:19:09 Quadrescence: thank you! 00:19:25 you can use [foo bar baz] to lazily call FOO on BAR and BAZ 00:19:54 i.e. line 80-83 can be replaced with: [if* t (format ..) (error ..)] 00:20:11 lispyone [~bryan@c-68-51-32-22.hsd1.ar.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:24 doesthiswork [~Adium@97-126-83-199.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:25 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:59 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@c83-254-19-137.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:28:40 yakov [~yakov@37-144-231-236.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 00:28:55 -!- yakov [~yakov@37-144-231-236.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 00:29:18 yakov [~yakov@37-144-231-236.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 00:29:21 -!- Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 00:32:08 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 00:32:18 -!- ubikation [~quassel@ip-64-134-132-133.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:35:56 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.243.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:23 -!- lispyone [~bryan@c-68-51-32-22.hsd1.ar.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: lispyone] 00:36:50 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-178-004-067-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:45:47 -!- yakov [~yakov@37-144-231-236.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:46:09 Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:41 ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:48 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52:21 -!- void64 [~luke@178.122.6.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:53:56 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:03 -!- Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 01:01:08 -!- arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: arare] 01:02:41 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has joined #lisp 01:02:50 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:03:28 are any SETF operations atomic in SBCL? 01:03:55 subtlepath: maybe look at sb-ext:cas 01:04:02 I notice that SBCL has ATOMIC-INCF and ATOMIC-DECF but no ATOMIC-SETF. 01:04:15 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-4d011e5e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:32 Bike: I am just wondering if there is an option other than using CAS in a loop, becuase in this case I don't care what the previous value is. I just want to change it in a thread-safe way. 01:04:59 ...is that not the point of cas? 01:05:02 void64 [~luke@178.122.207.20] has joined #lisp 01:05:32 CAS requires specifying the place, the old value, and the new value. The swap is only performed if the current value of place matches the old value passed to CAS 01:06:10 whereas I want an operation that atomically updates place without regard to the old value 01:06:10 well, anyway there's sb-ext:atomic-update 01:06:31 right, but that requires passing a function, which seems silly 01:07:08 e.g. (atomic-update *place* (lambda (prev) (declare (ignore prev)) 2) 01:07:31 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e1f4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:43 so I was just curious if the reason ATOMIC-SETF is missing is because some cases of SETF are already atomic 01:11:35 the documentation for compare-and-swap lists the atomic places, i guess 01:12:29 subtlepath: it's not really thread-safe if you're just willy-nilly writing to it, is it? 01:13:02 subtlepath: that's the point of stuff with CAS -- I don't think you generally have to worry about random memory corruption just because you set a variable from different threads, if that's what you're trying to prevent. 01:13:18 if you don't actually care what value you used to calculate the new value, then you're fine just writing to it without CAS. 01:14:39 Ben1 [~Thunderbi@123.129.57.203] has joined #lisp 01:14:53 it wouldn't be good to have the high word of a pointer pointing to X and the low word pointing to Y... 01:15:39 nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 01:15:47 sykopomp: I want to believe you :-) 01:15:58 you don't have to believe me it's ok 01:16:02 just go about your business. 01:17:04 I'd like to just write to some places without using CAS, but I am concerned about what DataLinkDroid said. 01:18:47