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has joined #lisp 07:31:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-245.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:31:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:37:52 who know the librep's going? 07:38:13 #scheme, perhaps 07:38:35 librep in #scheme? 07:38:43 #scheme 07:40:22 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.170.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:56 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 07:43:54 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:46:02 sz0 [~user@78.188.55.203] has joined #lisp 07:46:24 -!- sepi` is now known as sepi 07:46:32 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:50:58 v [~v@61.173.91.86] has joined #lisp 07:53:41 -!- hello [~sabayonus@116.24.100.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:55:28 -!- v [~v@61.173.91.86] has quit [Client Quit] 07:58:27 -!- sz0 [~user@78.188.55.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:56 ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 08:06:21 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.228.30.249] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:07:02 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 08:08:55 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.228.30.249] has joined #lisp 08:09:21 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:11:19 [cl-log] why it is not pretty-printing the timestamps in the log file? 08:11:22 -!- pegu [~user@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:49 I mean, is there a real good reason for that to be a bad idea in the lisp world, or is it just the way cl-log author view things? 08:11:53 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:12:17 pretty printing can be really slow 08:12:48 I've seen spew-happy code spend more time reporting than computing. 08:13:11 even for just a timestamp? I mean, about any log file that I open has the pretty printed timestamp in its first column, right? so is this special to lisp? 08:13:36 ah yes, DEBUG logging and performances are exclusive, I agree with that 08:14:34 the cl-log library has been made with that in mind though, where the log filtering based on the log category is meant to be hyper-fast 08:15:41 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:48 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:17:11 so I guess I now have to look at how to pretty-print the timestamps when using cl-log, which is otherwise a good lib for my use case... 08:18:37 bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 08:19:24 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:22:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:25:13 sz0 [~user@78.188.55.203] has joined #lisp 08:28:24 dim: you can make your own message class (subclass of cl-log:formatted-message probably), and define method on cl-log:format-message 08:28:30 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:29:13 dim: or redefine PRINT-OBJECT for cl-log:timestamp 08:29:18 jdz: yeah that's what I'm looking at, currently trying to decipher the first-time business in the log-manager class 08:29:38 I'm thinking redefining print-object ((self timestamp)) yes 08:30:29 dim: just remember that that will change the output of any other library that uses cl-log 08:30:49 I'm building a "final app" here 08:31:19 the goal would even be to be able to build an executable image then use just that, but I failed to use both cl-buildapp and uiop up to now 08:31:23 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 08:39:42 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:40:20 pegu [~user@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:14 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 08:44:19 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 08:44:34 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 08:46:47 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-061-181.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:46:53 -!- hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47:24 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-061-181.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:47:52 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.240.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:11 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:51:23 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 08:52:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:52:15 -!- tjos [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:53:20 -!- dsadsdasd [~Adium@37.157.191.242] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:53:30 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:55:45 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.61.9] has joined #lisp 08:56:00 fantasticsid [~user@216.240.135.173] has joined #lisp 08:57:18 pierpa [~user@host143-217-dynamic.55-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:00:04 -!- hitecnologys is now known as lolka 09:05:20 -!- anaumov [~an@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:05:27 -!- fantasticsid [~user@216.240.135.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:41 -!- lolka is now known as hitecnologys 09:06:22 m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:08 -!- m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:07:18 m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:21 -!- m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:08:23 leoc [~leoc.git@p5DDBBA58.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:37 m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:46 -!- m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:09:23 m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:43 -!- m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:10:12 m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:12 -!- m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:10:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:10:27 kiuma [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:10:37 You don't want to pretty print time stamps in anyway! You want raw formated time stamps, so that you can grep and sort them easily. 09:11:06 m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:06 -!- m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:11:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:11:54 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:01 ck_ [~ck@dslb-088-068-140-100.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:17 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:12:39 that's an interesting viewpoint 09:13:01 the problem is when you search for what happened at 11:05 09:14:50 fe[nl]ix: :iolib.common-lisp definition signals a lot of warnings on SBCL, when compiled with (setf asdf::*uninteresting-conditions* nil) 09:15:23 well, a single warning, but a large one 09:15:59 m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:00 -!- m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:16:29 hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:59 anaumov [~an@niobe.agnitas.de] has joined #lisp 09:20:45 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:20:58 m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:58 -!- m0rg [~m0rg@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:21:50 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:14 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:25:27 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:28:42 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:29:14 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 09:33:19 -!- Xach [xach@clozure-FF3E0EE5.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 09:33:42 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:33:55 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:12 sz0` [~user@178.240.190.244] has joined #lisp 09:34:28 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:34:35 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:34:55 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:55 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:35:40 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:02 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - 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"20" into a number? 11:25:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:26:36 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 11:29:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:29:59 flip214: you have to escape non-symbols to make it symbols 11:30:10 (read "|20|") 11:31:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:31:37 asvil: but if there's just a stream, I'm out of luck with READ? I need something else, I guess. 11:31:48 "failed to build float from 2f11475" 11:33:37 yes, your own customized "read" function 11:39:40 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:50 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:47:25 akovalen` [~user@77.51.74.170] has joined #lisp 11:48:46 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.73.105.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:49:21 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:51:26 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 11:54:14 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:54:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-21-104-59-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:55:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57:46 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:58:40 yati [~yati@122.170.31.228] has joined #lisp 11:58:52 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:00:00 Hi. Is having nested functions considered good practice in lisp? I am getting a redefinition warning whenever I call a function that defines an inner closure and returns/uses it in SLIME. 12:00:25 yati: it's fine, but be sure to use FLET or LABELS, not a nested DEFUN. 12:01:24 Xach, Oh. I was using DEFUN. I was just playing around - did not know about FLET/LABELS 12:01:34 Xach: i know that is normally how it is done, but why not nest defuns? 12:01:47 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:48 protist: DEFUN is for defining a function with a global name. 12:01:57 ^^ that's what I noticed 12:02:10 CL is not scheme. 12:02:14 Xach: but if the defun is nested, would it still be global? 12:02:19 even from within another function, the inner function gets a global identity 12:02:35 yati: Xach: ah 12:02:50 flet and labels it is, then 12:03:16 Yes, wherever it appears. But there are also implications for top-level-ness. 12:03:28 or the nlet macro from LoL :) 12:03:48 I did not even know about them! :D I'm following Practical Common Lisp, and am just having fun with macros :D 12:04:50 What is the rationale behind naming it PROGN, btw? 12:05:09 yati: prog1, prog2, progn 12:05:17 Ah 12:06:17 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:07:00 What is a lambda-list? I keep seeing it in docs - is it the parameter list for a function definition? 12:07:11 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:07:35 is it possible to portably name "objects" (variables, functions, macros, constants, etc) with unicode characters in lisp? using e.g.  or  in sources? 12:07:37 yati: yes. there are several variations of lambda lists. 12:07:50 dim: de facto portable 12:07:55 bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 12:08:14 dim: there's nothing in the spec that would preclude using funny characters. 12:08:24 meaning not in the standard (which did happen before unicode IIRC), but just works reliably anyways? 12:08:26 and most or all implementations support them ok. 12:08:32 dim: And likewise nothing that permits you to expect to be able to use any non-standard characters. 12:08:40 Xach, For example, FLET ({(name lambda-list declaration* form*)}*) declaration* body-form* It would be helpful if someone teaches me how to read that. 12:08:48 what's a standard characters? EBCDIC or ASCII or something else? 12:08:56 yati: It is indeed extremely helpful to learn how to parse that. 12:09:09 Neither. CL specifies a set of mandatory characters. 12:09:20 Xach, exactly 12:09:31 oh yes I've seen that in the specs already for describing the "character" data type, ok, fair enough 12:09:45 yati: if you run into a term you don't understand, one option is to go to http://l1sp.org/search/lambda-list 12:09:48 I don't want to bug you guys for every small thing when (describe #'foo) can do the job :) 12:09:56 using utf-8 sources containing  is still possible, apparently 12:10:10 hmm, that is less helpful than i imagined 12:10:16 dim: On implementations that allow you to do so. :) 12:10:23 mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:10:42 yati: the clhs glossary is very good for reference, too 12:10:45 do you have to spell out the encoding you use? maybe in the asd file? 12:11:32 Xach, I was first intimidated by the hyperspec, but I'm trying to get more familiar with it 12:11:41 CL doesn't get up to talking about encodings -- the closest it gets is character repertoires. 12:13:28 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:13:56 yati: It's certainly not a tutorial, but I really like it as a reference. 12:15:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:15:47 true that. It is comprehensive, but at my stage, I'd always look for a gentler introduction to stuff :) 12:17:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:19:12 yati: I started learning with "ANSI Common Lisp", but after a while I stopped liking that as an introduction. I think if I was starting now I'd try PAIP or Practical Common Lisp. 12:19:29 Practical Common Lisp \m/ 12:19:56 Xach, ANSI CL is written by PG, no? 12:20:12 Yes, and pg does not like Common Lisp very much. In hindsight, it shows in the book. 12:20:30 Practical Common Lisp is the book that got me interested enough in CL to actually begin using it, and now to replace my python habits with CL ones 12:20:30 I am learning with PAIP and LoL right now 12:20:44 I've heard On Lisp is a great book - but covers some advanced stuff 12:20:45 except that I can actually use threads and have a fast running code this time :) 12:20:51 but i have played with a bit of scheme with SICP, so i had a little exposure 12:20:55 dim, same story here! 12:21:06 + SLIME of course 12:21:07 I loved the bottom up approach 12:21:08 yati: I think On Lisp is a good book to read when you know enough to know which parts are bullshit. 12:21:17 Same as ANSI Common Lisp, too, I guess. 12:21:19 Xach, hmm 12:21:38 Xach, pg et al came up with a Lisp dialect called Arc, I guess 12:21:39 Xach: what kind of bullishit does it contain? 12:21:55 -!- mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:22:13 sepi: The bit that springs to mind is how writing fast CL code requires writing in a tail-recursive style. 12:23:11 is there a very simple template string package for CL, where I would replace {name} with the value of some binding or plist entry or hash-table entry or the like? 12:23:22 dim: cl-interpol 12:23:34 having a fresh look now, thanks 12:23:46 I see there's cl-ppcre-template too? 12:23:56 *Xach* isn't familiar with that project 12:24:35 it's in quicklisp and I can't find it at http://weitz.de/ 12:25:08 dim: I think it's part of cl-ppcre? 12:25:09 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:14 hu? 12:25:19 "no" 12:25:37 bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 12:25:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:26:45 maybe it's internal package support for documentation-template and html-template, but well, if it's internal, it's not for me 12:26:52 H4ns: you might know better? 12:27:15 dim: It's part of cl-unification 12:27:52 oh yes, I can see that now, I used to skip that column :) 12:28:22 dim: https://github.com/kanru/cl-mustache 12:29:17 sz0` [~user@78.188.55.203] has joined #lisp 12:29:22 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:29:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:32:53 -!- sz0 [~user@78.188.55.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:32:58 looks much more like what I had in mind, thanks H4ns 12:33:55 also I didn't see a way to use cl-interpol $() syntax in a file that I read explicitely from CL code (.sql) as opposed to embedding the #? magic in the source itself 12:34:01 so I guess it's solving another problem entirely 12:36:02 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-144.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:36:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:37:29 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.11.8] has joined #lisp 12:37:38 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:37:58 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:38:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:39:31 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:40:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:25 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@139.125.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:32 Thra11 [~thrall@139.125.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:52 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 12:44:05 patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:44:22 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:44:22 -!- patrickwonders_ is now known as patrickwonders 12:44:47 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-22-213.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:45:25 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:46:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:46:54 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:48:17 (loop repeat 3 for rest = (list 1 2) then (cdr list) collect rest) should return ((1 2) (2) nil) under my interpretation of the for-as-equals-then loop clause. however, it seems to return ((1 2) (2) (2)) instead. it seems to happen on both sbcl, ccl and clisp, so i am probably interpreting something wrong, any ideas what? 12:49:52 nevermind, it was a variable scoping issue, figuring it out now. but finally got a clue 12:50:36 madnificent: scoping? you have (cdr list) and you probably meand (cdr rest) 12:50:41 meant even 12:50:48 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:59 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-11-75.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:10 jdz: indeed. and the function it was originally in, had a list variable. for my test a used a list of 2 elements, thus yielding a strange result (which wasn't strange at all!). thanks :D 12:54:38 ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 12:55:15 -!- yati [~yati@122.170.31.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56:54 ahah, mustache is converting quotes into ' which is not helpful here 13:00:31 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:00:47 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 13:01:07 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:01:43 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:02:23 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:06 (:import-from #:mustache #:*char-to-escapes*) then set it to nil 13:03:17 doesn't look "idiomatic" nor "clean" to me 13:03:27 will take cleanup ideas... 13:05:08 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:36 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 13:06:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 13:06:36 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:12:00 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 13:12:36 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 13:13:32 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 13:13:43 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:46 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 13:15:32 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Client Quit] 13:17:53 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:17:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:19:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:20:03 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:25 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:20:50 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:21:54 why import? 13:23:12 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-144.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:27 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-144.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:25:33 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:55 stassats`: because the symbol is not exported from the package 13:26:03 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:26:09 so what? 13:26:30 not like importing makes it anymore of a supported interface 13:27:50 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-144.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:27:56 antgreen [~green@out-on-159.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:31 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:30:52 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:18 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.228.30.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:32:39 exactly, it just allows me to change the value 13:32:43 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.228.29.208] has joined #lisp 13:32:44 I didn't see another way to get at it 13:33:03 really? not mustache::*char-to-escapes* ? 13:33:36 dim: and bindings rather than setting 13:33:36 nha [~prefect@koln-5d815e00.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:55 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:37 stassats`: I didn't try the double colon notation, and yes I'm binding it in a let form 13:35:16 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:22 ok the :: trick works, of course, thanks 13:35:37 it is not a "trick" 13:36:44 Using a lisp to better turn tricks. 13:36:51 -!- paultag_ is now known as paultag 13:37:34 will need to get back to symbol notations docs then, so that I can stop naming that a trick 13:38:30 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d815e00.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:40:24 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:40:34 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-159.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:40:41 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:42:05 antgreen [~green@out-on-159.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:39 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has joined #lisp 13:45:49 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-213-20.eduroam.liu.se] has joined #lisp 13:46:16 hao [~user@116.24.100.105] has joined #lisp 13:46:25 -!- hao is now known as hello 13:50:00 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-159.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:58 -!- ellusioner [ellusioner@c-213-20.eduroam.liu.se] has quit [Quit: Hihi] 13:52:05 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:52:10 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:54:37 erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has joined #lisp 13:56:23 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:56:48 -!- erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:45 erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has joined #lisp 14:00:00 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:56 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:11 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 14:01:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:02:38 flip214: (defun read-symbol (&optional (stream *standard-input*)) (with-input-from-string (escape "\\") (read (make-concatenated-stream escape stream)))) 14:03:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:05:22 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:30 flip214: if you want it for all calls to read, then you must change the *readtable* so that all the digits are reader macros to read a symbol. 14:08:32 flip214: (defparameter *rd* (copy-readtable nil)) (loop for d across "0123456789" do (set-macro-character d (lambda (stream ch) (with-input-from-string (escape (format nil "\\~C" ch)) (read (make-concatenated-stream escape stream)))) t *rd*)) (mapcar 'type-of (with-input-from-string (in "123 456 789") (let ((*readtable* *rd*)) (list (read in) (read in) (read in))))) --> (symbol symbol symbol) 14:08:57 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-184-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:36 -!- akovalen` [~user@77.51.74.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:57 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-150-182-201.static-corp.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:11:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.167.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: kov] 14:11:51 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.167.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:09 jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-69-251-139-157.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:45 ogamita: thank you very much. A bit complicated, sadly - or at least some code. 14:15:01 -!- seq99` [~user@213.61.73.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:35 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:53 -!- hello [~user@116.24.100.105] has left #lisp 14:18:46 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:19:26 Denommus [~user@201.75.85.87] has joined #lisp 14:19:28 hi 14:21:00 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:21:17 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:22:06 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-163-211.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:25:25 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:46 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 23:53:29 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:29 23:53:29 -!- names: ccl-logbot white_magic bitonic Kruppe attila_lendvai moai bhyde nialo drmeister stardiviner mutley89 hiro3 jtza8 youlysses ahungry banjara mishoo kpreid sirdancealot antonv kliph b1rkh0ff two- Dalek_Baldwin banjiewen Natch reckler dnolen Codynyx ebobby PuercoPop kcj doomlord kennyd Guest53616 Kvaks robot-beethoven sambio bananagram gravicappa edgar-rft SHODAN nkkarthik araujo antgreen Tanami breakds cmatei fe[nl]ix foom rme Thra11 Bike Spion_ Vivitron 23:53:29 -!- names: mattrepl Odin- ikki sgkim126l erikc nilsi surrounder akovalenko pierpa`` wbooze casion foreignFunction DrCode cmm- setmeaway easye prxq_ _d3f hq1 lemoinem Harag xan_ quazimodo nha Adlai Posterdati teiresias freiksenet joe9 Patzy ered joneshf-laptop gf3 [1]JPeterson ianmcorvidae Ralt ezakimak EvW Tarential kirin` pjb zxq9 Krystof Xach tjos hpd ahoops az Adeon tensorpudding phadthai spacebat Vutral techlife Oddity wormphlegm deleuz ivan subtlepath 23:53:29 -!- names: theBlackDragon BlastHardcheese nuba NimeshNeema dpwright Viaken sshirokov smull_ BeLucid_ peterhil weie loke mtd nightfly__ stopbit fasta iLogical s0ber davorb tychoish slava AntiSpamMeta veer varjag_ dotemacs rvirding cic_ bobbysmith007 ineiros KingNato_ fihi09 TristamWrk joast naryl dan64 ogamita __main__ Mandus gko ThePhoeron quasisane maxm- nitro_idiot sbryant kanru karswell` acieroid hugod vsync Tordek |3b| sykopomp rking wyan srcerer froggey puchacz_ 23:53:29 -!- names: [SLB] tali713 dmh benny jdz CampinSam ting12 yroeht macrobat joneshf vhost- The_third_man kyl_ ft rdd eli buhman ddyCrazyE asedeno aoh Zhivago daimrod xristos em madnificent z0d guaqua elliottcable aerique samebchase cibs wc jaimef Fade pib1943 N3RG4L cyphase MoALTz jsnell jonasac nullman` pers` otwieracz dim eichelbart justinmcp cYmen mal_ xrq ramus spligak_ n0vember prip cross fmu scode TML copec zbigniew whartung fds ozzloy eMBee brown` sfa 23:53:29 -!- names: deliciousrobots igorw kranius oGMo johs brighid expez sigjuice ``Erik karupanerura jasom joshe jeekl Borbus _8david` stokachu danlentz yeltzooo zmyrgel ivan\ rtoym dRbiG _schulte_ setheus_ vert2 peccu1 adeht DrPete arkx DrForr_ tic_ Khisanth tvaalen antifuchs Neptu Amadiro cmbntr sklr eventhorizon gensym strobegen oconnore eak felideon rabite yan_ bege ether0 zz__ PaulHarris misv Praise Tristam finnrobi Yamazaki-kun rfgpfeif1er arbscht redline6561 flip214 23:53:29 -!- names: jayne j_king 23:54:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:00:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 00:00:48 arrdem [~user@wireless-206-76-94-52.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 00:05:06 -!- white_magic [white_magi@206.126.18.184] has left #lisp 00:09:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:09:23 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50fc0.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:42 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 00:16:32 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-182-144.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:18:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:57 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 00:25:05 -!- arrdem [~user@wireless-206-76-94-52.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:33:23 Subfusc_ [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has joined #lisp 00:33:26 ASau` [~user@46.115.75.93] has joined #lisp 00:33:30 antoszka_ [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 00:34:22 sepi` [~user@2001:41d0:8:e341::1] has joined #lisp 00:34:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.86] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:35:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:37 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:10 Denommus [~user@201.75.85.87] has joined #lisp 00:36:43 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:39:48 does anyone here have any recommendations on implementations based on socket performance 00:39:49 i dont want to randomly pick some implementation and then end up with THAT ONE WITH THE LAME SOCKETS 00:39:50 or if they're all around the same then im set :o 00:39:58 jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:12 dmh: benchmark and report! 00:40:39 i guess what im trying to ask is if somethingl ike that already exists 00:43:02 -!- moai [~m@141.70.23.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:43:18 it doesn't matter, got with either sbcl or ccl and use IOlib for sockets 00:43:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:43:32 ok 00:44:04 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:16 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@63.251.54.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:44:40 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b524e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:57 Henesy [~h3n3sy@rrcs-173-197-250-196.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:45:42 is it possible to run ABCL on Android? 00:48:58 PuercoPo` [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 00:48:58 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d817d51.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:49:45 clog_ [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 00:50:47 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:52:30 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop 00:52:38 k0001 [~k0001@host185.190-226-195.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:52:40 Ok I've been dicking around with CL on and off for a little while now. Is Successful Lisp worth the read, or are there better texts for getting up and running. 00:53:22 SL is cool, but I enjoyed Practical Common Lisp more 00:53:23 antifuchs: why 00:53:33 mostly because I like reading about ID3 parsers more than about how cons cells make up lists (: 00:53:55 oh.... 00:53:55 so i find myself needing to rebuild a couple CL-based web servers... is detachtty still the preferred mechanism for launching my sbcl process? 00:53:55 both things have a place in literature, but I find PCL more fun 00:54:21 slyrus: I launch them in tmux nowadays (: 00:54:21 antifuchs: I'm reading PCL and it seems very long in the tooth 00:54:35 thanks fuchs 00:54:35 I'm debating whether it's worth the time or not 00:55:00 so opinions are appreciated 00:56:58 antifuchs: have any examples of launching a hunchentoot server with tmux? 00:56:58 casion: hm, maybe I had the advantage of already being familiar with lisp by the time I read it (and so read code mostly) (: 00:57:28 slyrus: I have to move a webserver too; I'm planning to try to use tmux. 00:57:57 antifuchs: I'm already very familiar with clojure, but not common lisp... PCL feels really slow to me 00:58:53 but at the same time, it manages to explain things that I don't figure out on my own often enough for me to keep reading it :) 01:02:12 casion: I think SL might be a bit slower than PCL even 01:02:24 casion: you might find more value in PAIP 01:02:24 Paradigms of AI Programming 01:02:42 ah 01:02:48 good suggestino :) 01:03:06 slyrus: https://gist.github.com/antifuchs/5323554 is what I use 01:03:07 used, rather; I gave up running jofr.li (: 01:03:10 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:13 thanks antifuchs 01:03:19 Any suggestions for a good CL implementation? Preferably small but follows the standard. 01:03:40 I like SBCL (: 01:03:40 -!- Guest53616 [~on@91.Red-83-43-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 01:03:59 -!- Denommus [~user@201.75.85.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:59 how small do you need it though? 01:04:00 running on a microcontroller? or a machine made in the last decade? (: 01:04:10 speaking of that 01:04:10 anyone know anything about lisp on AVR? 01:04:18 rvirding: I like CCL, but I would. It's a bit smaller than SBCL. 01:04:18 remind me again why we need something like detachtty or tmux for hunchentoot? 01:04:19 on a macbook, but I just need the basics. For the time being anyway. 01:04:19 rvirding: on OSX ? 01:04:19 yup 01:04:19 then go with ccl 01:04:22 slyrus: I think lisps expect a TTY or PTY? 01:04:22 slyrus: at least for *debug-io*, AIUI 01:04:26 and we can't just redirect that to a file? 01:04:26 CCL, the celebrity cricket league of Clozure CL? 01:04:29 slyrus: PTYs don't really work like that /: 01:04:30 and does ccl follow the CL standard? 01:04:36 slyrus: you could conceivably use a thing that starts lisp in a PTY and then writes output to a logfile 01:04:36 *slyrus* clearly still doesn't understand the problem... 01:04:43 I think the problem was that you'll get nested errors once the debugger pops up, even when redirecting to a file (: 01:04:46 rvirding: it does 01:04:46 guess you can reset *invoke-debugger-hook* or something 01:04:47 buuuut there must be other problems 01:04:57 ok, ty, will give it a try 01:04:59 cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-183-198.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:05:03 surely having a full-featured debugger shouldn't get in the way of writing of server processes and using something like detachytty seems like a ridiculous hack. 01:05:05 anyway, I think the idea is that at least you need a PTY to generally run things safely in. screen/tmux/detachtty give you that. redirection does not. 01:05:07 why can't my sbcl process give a pty? 01:05:08 give me a pty 01:05:08 run itself in a pty? 01:05:11 I have not explored these questions in detail, but I think they involve xzibit. 01:05:22 slyrus: you don't need detachtty/screen/tmux 01:05:27 oh, that's good to hear. how do I run hunchentoot without one of the above? 01:05:28 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@mobilenet1-4-157-133.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 01:05:28 their purpose is to give access to the REPL but still allow to keep them in the background 01:05:34 if you don't want a REPL and have the sysadmin skills to monitor the server process, restart it automatically, etc... then you can daemonize sbcl like any other program 01:05:37 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:37 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b524e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:05:38 can't starting a swank server do that job for me? 01:05:38 yes, more or less 01:05:44 great. how do I do that? :) 01:05:53 by "that job" I meant giving you a REPL 01:05:55 if you daemonize the process, you need to start it as a system service from the beginning 01:06:00 you can save a core with your application + swank and call (swank:create-server :port 4005 :dont-close t) in the main function 01:06:00 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@mobilenet1-4-157-133.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 01:06:00 then setup an SSH tunnel or a VPN between your laptop and the server 01:06:06 and remember to use ,d(isconnect) insted of ,s(ayonara) to detach from the server 01:06:15 if you go the first route, use ssh -N -L 4005:localhost:4010 then M-x slime-connect RET RET 01:06:17 oops, ssh -N -L 4005:localhost:4005 01:06:19 slyrus: is that clear ? 01:06:20 that part is clear, yes :) tahnks 01:06:40 you can also use autossh to keep the tunnel in the background 01:06:41 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:00 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 01:07:03 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:03 -!- jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:07:05 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@92.114.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 01:07:34 -!- pierpa`` [~user@host77-93-dynamic.55-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:08:26 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:27 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:13:59 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 01:15:40 common-lisp.net mailing lists started to bounce emails 01:16:23 I have just tried bordeaux-threads-devel@common-lisp.net and clo-devel@common-lisp.net 01:19:37 -!- techlife [~jimmy@123.130.6.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:21:34 mmm 01:22:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:17 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:32:29 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: no future] 01:33:27 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.248.96] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 01:33:53 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.248.96] has joined #lisp 01:37:36 please someone correct me if I am very wrong in my next question, but what's the point on cl-who if it creates the html at compile time (as far as I could tell by a quick glance was that it was all macros) ? 01:37:40 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:37:44 jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:44 im pretty sure that has been asked many times but every link with that question in google i hit a dead link 01:38:18 techlife [~jimmy@123.130.6.89] has joined #lisp 01:38:31 ebobby: it creates some at compile-time and some at runtime 01:38:49 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 01:39:23 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host185.190-226-195.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:39:31 maybe rvirding is still awake 01:39:35 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:37 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:46 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 01:39:59 ebobby: hence: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/html-generator 01:40:09 white_magic: go ahead! Of course, if your syntax doesn't involves (op arg), you may not get the answer you expect. 01:40:10 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:40:28 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has joined #lisp 01:40:36 -!- jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:40:38 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:40 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:18 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 01:41:22 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:22 k0001 [~k0001@host45.181-1-162.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:41:24 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:41:30 Praise- [~Fat@78-134-75-183.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 01:41:30 -!- Praise- [~Fat@78-134-75-183.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Changing host] 01:41:30 Praise- 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#lisp 02:03:56 koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has joined #lisp 02:03:56 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 02:06:26 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.] 02:06:40 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 02:06:42 -!- techlife [~jimmy@123.130.6.89] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:07:23 techlife [~jimmy@123.130.6.89] has joined #lisp 02:09:30 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:24 kanru` [~kanru@111-249-143-178.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:03 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-141-112.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:15:05 newbie question, is there any way to get generated slot accessors rather than haveing to use (slot-value person 'name) i would like to use (person-name person) or something 02:15:25 :accessor in the slot specification 02:15:42 Bike: oh! ok 02:19:46 -!- sgkim126l [~sgkim126@120.142.9.17] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:22:20 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-141-112.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 02:23:29 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:26:43 fe[nl]ix: http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/ is working, but there is no shtml for nginx and I did not realize that many projects use it. sigh 02:27:35 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 02:28:45 So I will have to set up apache2 I guess, and/or send emails to the authors saying "yikes!" 02:29:31 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:55 -!- tjos [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:35 ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 02:39:03 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:41:05 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:38 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:53:53 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:56:17 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:57:19 Is c-l.net down? 02:58:22 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 03:00:08 Well, maybe not completely. trac appears to be down. So is git. 03:01:37 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 03:02:36 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host45.181-1-162.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:03:16 -!- clog_ [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Quit: ^C] 03:03:24 stumbles [~stumbles@2001:44b8:41c5:9600:219:d1ff:fe10:f770] has joined #lisp 03:03:30 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 03:03:53 Seems to be partially back. The host key has changed? 03:04:20 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:20 <|3b|> recently switched hosts or something from what i understand 03:07:54 Ah, there has been a lot happening to common-lisp.net that I didn't know about. Shame on me for not going to the home page more often! 03:12:37 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:12:43 walter [~walter@c-75-73-211-125.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:23 -!- walter [~walter@c-75-73-211-125.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:15:01 -!- stumbles [~stumbles@2001:44b8:41c5:9600:219:d1ff:fe10:f770] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:21:23 rtoym: It will be up/down for the entire weekend 'til I figure out what is wrong and how to fix it, but 03:22:06 if you /join #common-lisp.net and dictate to me what you need/want etc, I can work on it first. 03:22:18 leoncamel2 [~leoncamel@124.126.171.114] has joined #lisp 03:27:55 stumbles [~stumbles@2001:44b8:41c5:9600:222:2dff:fec0:c29] has joined #lisp 03:30:51 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:18 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:43:19 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:22 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:34 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has joined #lisp 03:48:38 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:56:17 tenawa [~user@c-98-201-84-250.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:51 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 04:00:53 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:01:13 -!- Henesy [~h3n3sy@rrcs-173-197-250-196.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:02:38 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-8-92.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:04:41 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:28 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 04:09:13 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-141-112.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:17 -!- stumbles [~stumbles@2001:44b8:41c5:9600:222:2dff:fec0:c29] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:12:34 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:16:12 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.190.179] has left #lisp 04:18:34 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-8-92.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 04:23:16 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:39 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:22 white_magic [white_magi@206.126.18.184] has joined #lisp 04:26:47 can someone help me figure out the syntax/logic to a [seemingly] complicated list comprehension task? 04:27:40 i want to insert a number in a list of numbers where it fits.. so if the number is 5 and i want to insert it into [4, 1, 2, 10], it should return the list [4, 1, 2, 5, 10] 04:28:11 "where it fits", so between something it compares greater than and something it compares less than? 04:29:04 basically, each pair of neighboring integers will have to be compared 04:29:29 for example, if X is in the range of integers A & B, then insert it between them 04:31:35 white_magic: What happens when you hit the end of the list? 04:31:47 then you insert it at the beginning of the list 04:31:54 errr 04:32:09 actually probably should get inserted at the end 04:32:36 So, inserting 5 into [10, 8, 6] does? and inserting 5 into [6, 8, 10] does? 04:32:59 oh, the second would go at the beginning right away, right? 04:33:08 (lambda (num list) (loop for ls on list when (and (<= (first ls) num) (<= num (second ls)) do (setf (cdr ls) (cons num (cdr ls))) (return list))) or something i guess 04:33:41 sweet, now i have to translate it to Erlang 04:33:54 godspeed 04:34:21 <|3b|> also, <= takes more than 2 arguments 04:34:51 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-bpoaddpflmawqmxw] has joined #lisp 04:36:25 <|3b|> and that SETF looks suspiciously like PUSH 04:36:36 hm, so it does 04:36:48 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:07 <|3b|> also fails when you hit the end of the list 04:37:19 "left as an exercise to the reader" 04:37:42 <|3b|> :) 04:39:09 white_magic: Erlang has TCO, right? You might like it more like this, then: http://pastebin.com/LeiRLGDa 04:39:31 (untested) 04:39:48 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:17 oops 04:41:01 http://pastebin.com/3iW612Gm  have to put the car back on as you pop out. 04:42:57 Note, that the function just puts the new item in front of the first list-entry that the comparator returns true for. Thats not exactly how you described the problem, but I think its equivalent. 04:48:28 what is tco? 04:49:12 white_magic: tail call optimization  but my corrected version doesnt actually have the recursion in tail position, so its irrelevant. 04:50:45 cades [~mac@60.245.65.131] has joined #lisp 04:55:02 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.201.223] has joined #lisp 05:44:32 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:32 05:44:32 -!- names: ccl-logbot Fullma erikc freiksenet DataLinkDroid prxq kushal AntiSpamMeta b1rkh0ff Joreji lukas__ cdidd sykopomp balle__ Harag CampinSam Bike Kvaks patrickwonders breakds tensorpudding attila_lendvai arrsim easye Myk267 catmtking v__ echo-area SeanTAllen normanrichards Henesy ISF cades Dalek_Baldwin nalaginrut kpreid weie_ Nisstyre cajetanu` walter KDr2 slyrus sw2wolf k0001 Oddity wws kennyd drmeister knob milosn_ Codynyx nialo joe9 wyan pib1956 05:44:32 -!- names: lemoinem Jabberwockey sellout- milkpost smazga mathrick_ gf3 antgreen _veer 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closed the connection] 06:17:48 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:18:53 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.125.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:32 ASau [~user@46.115.125.121] has joined #lisp 06:20:46 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:28 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:26:16 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:26:57 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:24 teggi [~teggi@113.172.53.76] has joined #lisp 06:33:08 tjos [~tim@CPE-60-228-51-83.lns8.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:34:12 Joreji [~thomas@73-048.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 06:41:11 good afternoon 06:41:51 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:42:38 format ~/function/ searches function in the user package. is there a good reason for not searching in the current package? 06:44:39 should i add my function to the user package or better repeat the name of my package as ~/package:function/ ? 06:45:01 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:45:11 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:45:35 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.148] has joined #lisp 06:47:31 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d815063.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:22 sweet... just got my hands on the VLM source code. 06:48:42 eMBee: package prefix sounds best to me 06:49:10 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.113.189] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:52:42 eMBee: why do you think that ~/FUN calls functions in CL-USER? 06:52:55 morning coffee... 06:52:55 oh, nm. 06:55:30 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:09 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:57:55 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-951ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:57:57 -!- Tuxedo [~tuxedo@bas3-cooksville17-845437443.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:58:37 it feels odd having to repeat the package name within the package 06:58:54 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:58:54 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:58:54 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:00:10 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 07:00:59 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:57 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:02:08 i always repeat it for exported symbols 07:02:48 eMBee: it is, but hard to tell what the package is that was meant 07:03:25 (since it's a symbol ref in a string, the package that was current at compile time may not be the one that's set at run time 07:03:39 and you can imagine a scenario with more than one package at compile time, too 07:04:01 guess the only way to be sure would be to have a format that lets you refer to these functions outside of strings 07:04:07 aaaand I guess you could to that 07:05:34 -!- Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:05:55 by formatting the format string, but that's ugh 07:06:57 -!- wws [~billstcla@p-68-237-142-88.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07:03 yeah, you are right 07:07:28 got to compromise somewhere... thanks 07:07:54 (defun custom-formatter (function-name) (let ((*package* (find-package :keyword))) (format nil "~~/~s/" function-name))) 07:08:15 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.125.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:08:19 (format nil "~@?" (custom-formatter 'my-awesome-function) 123) 07:08:56 may be a tiny bit nicer without sacrificing clarity (: 07:09:45 |3b|` [foobar@cpe-72-177-66-41.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:09:50 another handy trick is to put your formatters in the keyword package 07:10:00 that way, you can use ~/:formatter/ (-: 07:10:11 (keywords can be fbound) 07:11:11 abeaumont [~abeaumont@183.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:07 hmm, that was my question actually, which method is recommended? duplicate the package-name, put function in cl-user or put it in keyword package? 07:14:00 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-177-66-41.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:14:21 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d815063.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:14:56 what is the best-practice, so to speak 07:15:14 eMBee: never, ever, put functions in cl-user please... 07:15:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:15:36 eMBee: best practice is to export them from a package, but i regularly use cl-user as well 07:15:58 eMBee: what is the problem with just using package:func 07:16:01 isn't cl-user kind of made for experimenting at the REPL? 07:16:10 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-16-19.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 07:16:14 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-16-19.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 07:16:23 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 07:16:25 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:17:26 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 07:17:40 dim: it is made for people who can't be bothered with understanding packages 07:17:53 dim: which includes a surprisingly large portion of old-time lispers. 07:18:20 pavelpenev [~quassel@194.141.47.12] has joined #lisp 07:18:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:18:58 i guess according to spec, cl-user can be loaded with whatever system specific cruft... 07:19:13 dim: because, you know, modular systems were kind of a new idea in the 1980ies and not everyone believed that they'd ever fly 07:19:19 reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-0-251.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:03 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 07:20:18 antifuchs: not on lispworks, at least not easily 07:20:38 stassats: hm, isn't that against the spec? Hrmmm 07:21:14 zorkmoid: the only problem is the cosmetic irritation of duplicating a name inside the package that should know its name already. but it's really more me wondering which out of the choices i should prefer. (since i don't really have a preferance) and H4ns answered that, thanks 07:21:16 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Client Quit] 07:21:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:21:33 eMBee: create a macro that wraps it ... 07:22:39 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:46 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 07:23:32 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:45 Hi, I have asked this before but forgotten the correct way to do it: (loop repeat 10 do (princ "-") (sleep 0.5)) doesn't print sequentially but spits it all out in one go at the end of the loop. Format also same issue, only "print" works.. but how can we get format to display sequentially (emacs editor) ? 07:25:03 clhs finish-output 07:25:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 07:26:23 H4ns: interesting. I've read some about pascal and modula-2 and their relative packaging systems, was it all within the same years? 07:27:01 dim: pascal lacked a real module system. that is what modula-2 was about 07:27:02 fbinding keywords is bad form IMO 07:27:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:28:06 though it will never mess up any of my code, since I don't do it; I suppose it's the level of harmless such that you can only screw over other people that do the same 07:28:18 stassats: ok thanks, it comes back to me now 07:28:25 H4ns: exactly, I wonder if it happened at the same time as was designed the CL packaging system, and if they had either influence over each other or at least some kind of cross-pollination 07:28:27 if two libraries did it, I suppose it could harm me 07:29:08 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-253-220.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:29:32 dim: i don't really know, frankly. it is just that modules on the language level are a relatively new feature of programming languages, and lisp is older than that. 07:29:47 stassats: in the same page "force-output" works fine 07:30:10 it's not the same 07:30:24 (loop repeat 10 do (format t "-") (force-output) (sleep 0.5)) 07:30:38 francogrex: that won't compile 07:30:46 H4ns: yeah, ok, will search about that sometime if interest outlives the period of time when I can't procrastinate that much :) 07:30:51 but actually that's the behavior I am after 07:31:29 jasom: what do you mean it won't compile? it just did 07:31:58 http://prog21.dadgum.com/168.html is a recent article about (to some extends) the Modula-2 packaging system 07:32:10 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:32:32 francogrex: huh, I didn't know you could have multiple compound forms after just 1 do. 07:32:55 it's progn 07:32:56 jasom: ...hum even I know that 07:33:16 stassats: not exactly since you can't have a non-comound form 07:33:24 (loop repeat 10 do 1 2 3) won't work so well 07:33:38 jasom: how would it "work"? 07:33:39 but stassats what's the difference in the behavior between force and finish here? 07:33:50 francogrex: you can read it in clhs 07:34:17 H4ns: (progn 1 2 3) should compile, the form I pasted might not in a conforming implementation 07:34:58 jasom: it is not really progn, granted 07:35:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:35:29 H4ns: and I was replying to stassats saying it was progn 07:35:29 jasom: what does "do 1 2 3" even mean? 07:35:58 francogrex: same as do (progn 1) (progn 2) (progn 3) which will work 07:36:33 -!- k0001 [~k0001@186.153.77.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:49 and IIRC clisp allows any non-loop keyword as a compound form 07:36:55 jasom: from that perspective, loop just sucks. 07:36:58 er rather treats it as that 07:37:40 jasom: from a practical perspective, you can have multiple function invocations or (to some extent) macro invocations after one do form in a loop. 07:38:15 H4ns: yeah, is it tagbody that does something similar? 07:38:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-048.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:38:38 *jasom* remembers there is something where bare symbols are treated as tags and compound forms aren't 07:39:26 jasom: yes. tagbody considers all symbols in its "statements" argument to be tags, not variables. 07:41:29 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:42:47 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 07:43:07 mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:19 -!- ellusioner [ellusioner@c-951ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Hihi] 07:44:54 rhinux_ [~rhinux@27.115.15.9] has joined #lisp 07:46:26 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 247 seconds] 07:46:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:48:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:49:38 -!- cajetanu` [~user@aefv46.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:43 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:51:00 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 07:51:45 -!- FareWell [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:51:51 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 247 seconds] 07:54:55 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:54:55 Joreji [~thomas@73-048.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 07:56:14 has anyone tried clisp on the raspberry pi? i'm getting segfaults when I try to load quicklisp. 07:56:27 davorb: why don't you use ccl? 07:56:30 aajmakin [aajmakin@kosh.org.aalto.fi] has joined #lisp 07:58:13 davorb: i'm asking because it works well, so if you want common lisp on the pi and have issues with clisp, maybe you want to give it a try instead. 07:58:57 tekai [~tekai@f054126127.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:59:13 -!- tekai [~tekai@f054126127.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:00:15 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:00:29 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:00:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-048.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:00:52 bioevolgenec [c3fb7302@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.251.115.2] has joined #lisp 08:03:36 *jasom* just realized that lisp integers behave exactly like a C "int" according to the C spec, since overflow is undefined for signed values 08:04:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:12 jasom: what ? 08:05:44 fe[nl]ix: it's undefined what happens if you e.g. "1 + INT_MAX" 08:06:18 er 1 + (int)INT_MAX 08:06:48 daniel_- [~daniel_-@unaffiliated/daniel--/x-1801510] has joined #lisp 08:06:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:08:35 jasom: (+ most-positive-fixnum 1) is prefectly well behaved by the spec. 08:08:58 fe[nl]ix: so if you want to emulate this C function in lisp: "int foo(int x) { return x+1; }" (1+ x) is good enough to comply with the C standard 08:09:36 zorkmoid: overflow is undefined for signed integer values in the C standard 08:09:56 *stassats* fails to understand what the C standard has got to do with Lisp 08:09:58 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:10:12 protist [~protist@242.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:10:12 jasom: sure, but there is no such thing as "overflow" in CL. 08:10:28 clhs f-p-o 08:10:28 floating-point-overflow: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/e_floa_2.htm 08:10:38 jasom: nor is most-positive-fixnum sufficiently equivalent to INT_MAX 08:10:43 stassats: we are talking about fixnums. 08:11:01 zorkmoid: 1) I've overflowed bignums before, and no we aren't talking about fixnums, we are talking about integers 08:12:34 clhs 12.1.3.1 08:12:35 Rule of Unbounded Rational Precision: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/12_aca.htm 08:13:29 stassats: hmm I've run into integer limits on at least one implementation that were much smaller than the heap 08:13:43 On the order of a gigabyte or so 08:13:54 didn't know that was a bug 08:14:06 what bug? 08:14:47 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 08:14:49 12.1.3.1 implies that a non-storage dependant limit on the magnitude of integers is non-conforming 08:14:57 it does? 08:15:23 Rational computations cannot overflow in the usual sense (though there may not be enough storage to represent a result), since integers and ratios may in principle be of any magnitude. 08:15:52 i don't see such an implication 08:15:58 well I do :) 08:17:01 *jasom* would call hitting non-storage dependant limit on the magnitude of an integer to be "overflowing in the usual sense" 08:17:04 "enough storage" does not say that "all storage must be usable to store long numbers" or anything like that. 08:18:43 hitting any non-runtime-adjustable upper bound seems like overflowing in the usual sense, actually. 08:18:47 bitonic [~user@176.27.227.101] has joined #lisp 08:19:04 nonsense 08:20:15 jasom: how did you encounter a 1 gigabyte limit? 08:20:20 jasom: just out of curiousity haha 08:20:36 protist: iterative fibonacci will do it really fast 08:20:41 jasom: playing with large primes and incryption? 08:20:58 jasom: yeah but what were you applying such a large number to? 08:20:58 protist: no, those are no where near large enough 08:21:09 jasom: oh yeah...i guess they aren't big enough 08:21:27 4096 bit is a *huge* key for all but the least efficient public-key stuff 08:21:51 jasom: i mean, i can see how to make a big number...i was just wondering if you were actually doing something that /required/ such a large number 08:22:11 ehu [~ehu@109.37.144.208] has joined #lisp 08:22:13 jasom: not arguing on the standard....i was just curious what you were doing 08:22:35 protist: it actually was fibonacci; comparing a few differnt ways of calculating it 08:22:49 jasom: :) 08:23:23 protist: also demonstrating to a friend that (for exact values) iterative fibonacci is faster than the standard closed-form 08:23:24 jasom: so i guess you went big to measure the time more accurately? 08:24:02 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 08:25:21 jasom: fwiw here is the parser i was working on today : https://github.com/drewc/lisp-mlmmj/blob/master/mailman-%3Emlmmj.lisp 08:25:40 drewc: neat; I rewrote my expression parser too... 08:26:00 speaking of which I should probably use some sort of version control on this project... 08:27:59 pierpa [~user@host239-222-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:29:51 drewc: when will cl.net have gnu screen? 08:30:33 drewc: https://github.com/jasom/plush/blob/master/plush-parser.lisp#L1102 <-- thats where the expression parsing starts. 08:31:12 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.253.159] has left #lisp 08:31:13 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-16-19.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:14 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-16-19.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:20 specbot [~specbot@50.7.166.114] has joined #lisp 08:31:20 minion [~minion@50.7.166.114] has joined #lisp 08:32:55 -!- minion [~minion@50.7.166.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:55 -!- specbot [~specbot@50.7.166.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:09 -!- pierpa [~user@host239-222-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:33:10 minion [~minion@50.7.166.114] has joined #lisp 08:33:12 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 08:33:23 stassats: probably never ... I use (and it has) tmux 08:33:50 specbot [~specbot@50.7.166.114] has joined #lisp 08:34:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:34:13 well, no specbot and minion then 08:34:14 -!- specbot [~specbot@50.7.166.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:15 -!- minion [~minion@50.7.166.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:42 they rely on screen? 08:34:57 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:58 i rely on screen 08:35:17 well, why didn't you say so... 08:35:19 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 08:35:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:35:50 done 08:35:57 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:37:17 minion [~minion@50.7.166.114] has joined #lisp 08:37:30 specbot [~specbot@50.7.166.114] has joined #lisp 08:38:55 drewc: ok, minion and specbot are up on cl.net 08:43:19 drewc: now, lisppaste, it listens on 8080 port 08:43:57 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:44:46 http://paste.lisp.org:8080/ works now 08:45:23 ok, and that simply needs a reverse proxy ya? 08:45:28 yep 08:46:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:46:44 dnolen [~user@212.23.236.122] has joined #lisp 08:48:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:48:12 -!- Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:48:44 Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has joined #lisp 08:49:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.232] has joined #lisp 08:49:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.232] has quit [Changing host] 08:49:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:51:41 minion: version? 08:51:42 This is the minion bot, running on a X86-64 (QEMU Virtual CPU version 1.0) and running under SBCL 1.1.6. 08:52:51 stassats`: http://paste.lisp.org/ 08:52:52 ok, paste.lisp.org is up 08:53:03 my part of the migration is done 08:53:06 thanks a bunch! 08:53:15 -!- stassats` changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language New: common-lisp.net is down, including etc. CFFI 0.11.1, Hunchentoot 1.2.17, SBCL 1.1.6, DRAKMA-1.3.1, CHUNGA-1.1.5, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20 08:53:39 err 08:53:57 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:53:59 -!- mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 08:55:21 -!- stassats` changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CFFI 0.11.1, Hunchentoot 1.2.17, SBCL 1.1.6, DRAKMA-1.3.1, CHUNGA-1.1.5, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20 08:56:04 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.37.144.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:59:17 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:02:57 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2812:57e7:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:03:33 -!- daniel_- [~daniel_-@unaffiliated/daniel--/x-1801510] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:04:51 H4ns: yeah, i switched to CCL. i just want the option of clisp sometimes. 09:09:28 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 09:10:07 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:10:17 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.175.65.1] has joined #lisp 09:10:41 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 09:12:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:12:26 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Quit: jeekl] 09:14:22 daniel_- [~daniel_-@unaffiliated/daniel--/x-1801510] has joined #lisp 09:14:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:16:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:16:42 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 09:16:51 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 09:19:38 -!- bioevolgenec [c3fb7302@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.251.115.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:22:16 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0027df.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:48 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.222.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:27:48 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:28:55 crus0e [~crus0e@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:32:41 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:32:45 would be nice to have a converter from html to cl-who output ... 09:34:42 like from "this" to (:tag "this") ? 09:35:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:35:25 yes 09:35:32 that doesn't sound hard to make 09:35:46 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 09:35:52 nope 09:35:59 still has to be made. :-) 09:36:08 zorkmoid: I'd use SXML-STP for the parse tree. 09:36:27 not hard at all ... closure-html + cxml-stp and done :) 09:36:31 easye: ... and loose all non-valid elements in the process. 09:36:45 why use modules instead of parsing it yourself? 09:37:01 they are pretty much 1:1 09:37:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:37:28 protist: writing a html parser is not entirely trivial. 09:37:44 H4ns: using recursive ascent it wouldn't be that bad 09:37:49 I'd use HTML-TEMPLATE. 09:38:02 find the innermost tags, translate...and work outward 09:38:21 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:38:26 protist: sure. all very easy, just a simple matter of coding. 09:38:28 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:38:38 H4ns: :) 09:38:41 :-9 09:38:45 protist: or not coding and using a library instead. and guess what would be quicker, if a proper library existed? 09:38:52 and of swearing at the people who write SGML rather than HTML. 09:39:08 H4ns: i don't like the idea of libraries depending on eachother for trivial things 09:39:26 protist: you keep saying "trivial" without knowing what it means. 09:39:31 H4ns: if he plans to release his translator as a module in its own right, not having dependencies would be kind of nice :) 09:39:38 protist: why? 09:39:51 why should everything depend on 3 other things? 09:40:03 *stassats* checks the calendar 09:40:03 protist: cause it shares between three things? 09:40:18 meh....sorry i guess i'm arguing philosophy 09:40:20 protist: because there is no such thing as "trivial" in the real world. 09:40:22 it says 2013, why do people care about dependencies in 2013? 09:40:28 i'm a little OCD...do whatever you rather :) 09:40:43 protist: sounds more like NIH... 09:40:53 zorkmoid: i have that too 09:41:01 sounds more like avoiding getting things done 09:41:10 protist: yeah. why don't you write a robust html parser library right now, if it is trivial to you? it'd be helpful to me, as a mere mortal. 09:41:32 H4ns: to be honest my understanding of html is crude at best 09:41:49 i would find such a library useful as well right now 09:41:54 H4ns: but i read some of the documentation of cl-who and how it goes the other way round 09:41:59 protist: why do you say writing a html parser is trivial if you don't know html? 09:42:28 i could start writing something, and you could edit for what i get wrong? 09:42:52 protist: why? it is trivial .. :-) 09:43:11 hey now! :P 09:43:19 zorkmoid: closure-html will work just fine for you if you don't need to deal with invalid html 09:43:34 H4ns: "unknown" html is what i need to deal with :-( 09:43:41 H4ns: Well, if the HTML isn't well formed, I would investigate the various "tagsoup" derived for a pre-processing step. Unfortunately, I know of nothing in this direction that is CL. 09:43:45 but thanks for the tip 09:44:02 closure-html tries to correct invalid htmls 09:44:18 stassats: yes, but it discards unknown tags altogether. 09:44:30 right now i would have been happy with something half finished... will just do some emacs keyboard macros. 09:46:05 On ABCL, I'd start by running same inputs through http://home.ccil.org/~cowan/XML/tagsoup to see if things are preserved. 09:46:56 Or more language neutral, perhaps http://tidy.sourceforge.net/ 09:48:08 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:48:12 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:49:48 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:52:07 -!- dnolen [~user@212.23.236.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:52:22 -!- poindontcare [~user@c-69-181-139-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 09:52:57 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.175.65.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:53:28 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 09:53:53 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:10 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:55:59 bioevolgenec [c3fb7302@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.251.115.2] has joined #lisp 09:56:00 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:58:17 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:58:32 davazp [~user@92.251.159.187.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 10:00:58 -!- v__ [~v@27.102.204.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:01:02 with format, how to print out a number with 3 digits groups separated by a space? ~:d is separating with a coma, and ~:,, 10:01:22 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@194.141.47.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:26 and ~:,,' d is wrong, and ~:,,'#\Spaced is wrong too 10:02:17 oh 10:02:24 ~,,' :d of course 10:02:33 thanks :) 10:02:54 dim: It's better to use a capital D in that case 10:03:11 pavelpenev [~quassel@194.141.47.12] has joined #lisp 10:03:14 (it looks happier) 10:03:43 mmm, I can see what you mean, but my eyes are not used to the format notation (let alone with caps) to experience it 10:04:23 i find using upper case for all format directives to improve readability of format strings 10:05:15 that's a though 10:05:41 I tend to still find caps distracting even in format directives 10:05:50 might only prove how noob I still am :) 10:06:21 dim: I was only joking. I just like "~:D", the happy little fellow with a feather in his cap. 10:06:27 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:06:52 dim: though it is my habit to capitalize format control characters, too (except when "v" is used to stand in for an argument) 10:06:56 "~,,' :D" requires way too much imagination for me, on the other hand :) 10:06:58 i've used capital letters for format directives, too 10:07:14 i mean, i still do 10:07:31 -!- bitonic [~user@176.27.227.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:07:47 I always use caps, and will even backspace and hit shift when I mess it up , even at the REPL 10:08:22 yes, never let your guard down 10:09:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:09:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:10:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:11:03 ISF [~ivan@189.61.222.251] has joined #lisp 10:12:01 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:12:46 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 10:15:13 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:19:06 v__ [~v@61.173.101.195] has joined #lisp 10:20:54 Is there any proper implementation of URI parsing and generation available in CL? 10:21:25 loke: puri 10:21:38 jdz: It only does parsing, unfortunately 10:21:48 loke: you sure? 10:22:16 jdz: as far as I can tell, yes 10:22:42 at least I can't see how I can make it format a URI properly after creating it with make-instance 10:23:42 loke: princ-to-string or something? 10:24:19 jdz: that's not the issue. The issue is that it doesn't escape 10:24:31 jdz: but it may be me that's stupid 10:25:13 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-22.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:25:17 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-22.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:25 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-22.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:25:36 loke: what does it not escape? 10:25:38 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136529 10:25:42 Try that 10:26:18 I can't figure out hwo to convince puri to actually render that 10:26:56 are git repos available anywhere on the new common-lisp.net? 10:27:07 loke: that's not an URI issue. 10:27:13 or is the old server still live somewher? 10:27:18 Another issue with puri is that it doesn't split up the pathname components. I would have expected to be able to supply a list to the :PATH argument, but it requires a string. That means it doesn't do individual path component parsing right 10:27:43 loke: URIs don't have paths 10:27:59 Right, so what I should have said is URL? 10:28:05 loke: i mean, the path part is a string, slashes don't have any special meaning there 10:29:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:29:29 jdz: RFC 3986 disagrees with you :-) 10:29:31 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3.3 10:30:01 Forgetaboutit [~sammy@p4FFA74D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:50 Basically, I need something that can encode and decode URI's based on RFC 3986 10:30:56 loke: yes, that's about the start of the path component 10:31:09 (puri:uri-parsed-path (puri:uri "http://example.com/a/b/c")) => (:ABSOLUTE "a" "b" "c") 10:31:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:31:26 Not just start. It explains that each segment is separated by /. It later explains how each segment is encoded 10:31:50 You can even have parameters assigned to each segment, but nobody uses that 10:31:56 OK, ignore me then 10:33:37 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-28-1.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:33:51 stassats: What I'm, looking for is the opposite though 10:34:08 stassats: I have all the URL components, and I want to create a valid URL string from it 10:34:12 although puri is written for rfc2396; just to mention. 10:35:59 -!- bioevolgenec [c3fb7302@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.251.115.2] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:36:04 jdz: Yes, I noticed. Although puri isn't able to parse a valid RFC 2396 URI either :-) 10:36:15 capcrunch [~capcrunch@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:22 loke: i'm sure maintainers are willing to accept patches. 10:36:31 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-159-135.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:36:49 jdz: Ah yes. That's what I was getting to. I'm willing to do this work and put the money where my mouth is 10:37:04 The reason I asked here was that I wanted to make absolutely sure that no one had done this before. 10:37:29 (let ((uri (make-instance 'puri:uri :scheme :http :host "example.com"))) (setf (puri:uri-parsed-path uri) '(:absolute "a" "b" "c")) (puri:render-uri uri t)) => http://example.com/a/b/c 10:38:42 Try putting an ampersand in one of the path components 10:38:47 it should be escaped 10:40:33 -!- capcrunch [~capcrunch@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:40:43 oh, my memories were from URLs, not URIs. 10:42:29 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:00 -!- prip [~foo@host93-128-dynamic.49-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:53:45 -!- antgreen [~green@209.118.250.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:55:26 nalaginrut_ [~nalaginru@59.40.37.246] has joined #lisp 10:56:06 bitonic [~user@dyn1221-17.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:56:08 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:56:19 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 10:56:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:57:49 prip [~foo@host11-121-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:58:00 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:59:00 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.13.170.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:59:13 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:26 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75fb4e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:00 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75cc24.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:07:20 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:08:19 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:09:08 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:10:10 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:12:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:14:40 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 11:15:43 zorkmoid: ok...so parsing HTML is less trivial than i thought...i concede it 11:15:58 zorkmoid: tantilizingly doable...but not terribly trivial 11:16:37 zorkmoid: i started writing some code and was like 'damn' :) 11:17:40 pegu [~user@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:47 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:09 -!- rhinux_ [~rhinux@27.115.15.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:27:30 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:28:12 what is the difference between `handler-bind' and `handler-case'? 11:28:23 one unwinds, another doesn't 11:28:44 which one unwinds? 11:28:48 handler-case 11:29:02 Forgetaboutit: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Condition-Handling-2001.html 11:29:12 -!- cades [~mac@59-124-92-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:29:22 thanks you 11:29:38 the hyperspec confuses me a bit 11:30:08 SBCL seems to expand a `handler-case' into a `handler-bind' 11:30:41 an internal version, however 11:32:01 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:32:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:34:38 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:35:48 Parsing html isn't so trivial when you need to deal with implicit close tags and so on. 11:36:48 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:39:44 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:23 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.159.187.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:14 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 11:45:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:47:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:47:18 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Client Quit] 11:49:37 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:33 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:35 Cymew [~user@80.169.182.163] has joined #lisp 11:51:16 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:52:42 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-22.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:19 -!- lukas__ [~lukas@194.228.13.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:56:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 11:57:34 ck_ [~ck@dslb-146-060-027-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:25 -!- nalaginrut_ is now known as nalaginrut 11:58:56 question for all of you... I have some lisp code that depends on 3 libraries that I (as a dev) normall install with quicklisp but I am getting to the point where I want other people to start using my code and requiring people to use quicklisp might be out of the question 11:59:10 what would be the best way of bundling and loading these 3 libraries with my code? 12:00:28 PuffTheMagic: Depends on your implementation. 12:00:51 depends on my lisp implementation? 12:00:53 Some of the operation ASDF/BUNDLE are supported in ECL and ABCL to some example 12:01:00 "to some extent" 12:01:27 With SBCL, you could just save-image-and-die, thereby distributing an executable ready to go. 12:01:30 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:01:33 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 12:01:55 PuffTheMagic: using your code as developers or as users? 12:02:06 as users 12:02:11 -!- Posterdati is now known as Posterdati_Fail 12:02:27 PuffTheMagic: are you giving them something to build for themselves, or an executable? 12:02:38 PuffTheMagic: put it in a readme, and let the user install them manually usnig whatever setup they use... 12:02:42 quicklisp wont be an option cause the application that my code is an "add-on" for is already a compiled lisp bundle 12:02:45 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:11 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.215.190] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 12:03:14 they basically wont have an interpreter at their disposal, well not obvious to someone using the standalone version of this app 12:03:25 but its bundled with ccl 12:03:31 Quicklisp has an option to export a set of libraries to a directory tree, and produce a single .lisp file that, when loaded, will make them visible to ASDF. 12:03:41 Ha ha! Just kidding. I wish I wrote that bit already :( 12:03:42 Ooooh! 12:03:45 lol 12:03:52 But I think it might help in this case. 12:04:00 yeah that would be really cool 12:04:05 I don't think it would be that hard, it's just a matter of time. 12:04:18 well how would I manually go about creating a file like that 12:04:34 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:04:34 im not a pro with asdf to know all the tricks I need to use 12:05:12 PuffTheMagic: No one is at this point: such bundling operations are just being developed. 12:05:16 Just save an executable lisp image with everything loaded once for good. 12:05:58 ogamita: that wont really work with this situation 12:06:17 my code is essentially an addon for a prebundled lisp app 12:06:25 it will get loaded by dropping the file in a folder 12:06:42 rebuilding the main app with my plugin loaded is not an option 12:07:10 PuffTheMagic: can't you distribute a .fasl file? 12:07:19 cades [~mac@60.245.65.169] has joined #lisp 12:07:23 i could 12:07:25 you play funny Xach 12:07:49 but im not sure how to make it 1 .fasl file 12:08:03 PuffTheMagic: what implementation 12:08:12 for the mac, ccl 12:08:17 cat *.fasl > 1.fasl 12:08:20 not sure what is used for the windows version 12:08:48 stassats`: nice 12:09:13 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.99.143] has joined #lisp 12:09:15 that is easy 12:09:48 On what implementations does that trick not work? 12:09:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:10:07 *Xach* knows only about sbcl & cmucl supporting it, ccl was news 12:11:03 mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:11:51 -!- cades [~mac@60.245.65.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:14:12 -!- Guest36334 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:15:11 thanks guys 12:15:37 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:05 i don't know whether it works on ccl 12:16:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:16:54 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:17:10 i think you have to use ccl:fasl-concatenate 12:17:33 documentation says: "Multiple fasl files can be concatenated into a single file." 12:17:51 yeah, section 4.10, what stassats` said 12:17:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:18:58 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:19:07 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@194.141.47.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:15 cat just makes it look like the first fasl on ccl 12:20:44 yeah, the function has some magic with changing bytes in theer 12:20:59 so is it a better idea to use the function? 12:21:11 if you want that to work 12:21:20 if you don't, you can use cat 12:21:25 more like skipping stuff 12:22:55 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-144.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:23:06 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-22.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 12:23:15 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.167.115] has joined #lisp 12:24:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:25:33 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:26:00 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.215.190] has joined #lisp 12:26:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:27:22 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:27:28 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:27:38 -!- v__ [~v@61.173.101.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:55 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.0.244] has joined #lisp 12:28:03 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:23 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:30:13 hmm, concatenating all the files in the right order is going to be tricky 12:31:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.232] has joined #lisp 12:31:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.232] has quit [Changing host] 12:31:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:31:23 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-22.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:31:40 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:32:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:45 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.148] has joined #lisp 12:35:36 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:37:39 asdf has something for this 12:37:42 ask Fare 12:38:20 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 12:38:23 davazp [~user@92.251.159.187.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 12:39:39 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:59 v__ [~v@61.170.245.32] has joined #lisp 12:40:20 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 12:40:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:26 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:40:53 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 12:40:53 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 12:40:53 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 12:41:24 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 12:45:03 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:11 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:50:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:51:52 -!- daniel_- [~daniel_-@unaffiliated/daniel--/x-1801510] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:51:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:55:18 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.0.244] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 12:57:38 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-17.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:58 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-0-251.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:59:28 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxw 12:59:34 -!- prxw is now known as prxq 13:00:59 olefowdie [~olefowdie@c-76-122-117-251.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:23 does anyone know whether or not CMUCL for Windows is any good? 13:01:57 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-22.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 13:01:58 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-144.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:13 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-144.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:02:14 it just isn't ported? 13:03:12 it's listed on the cmucl site as experimental, and there isn't much more information than that 13:03:23 so I am wondering if it's unstable or something 13:03:32 why would anyone use cmucl on any platform? 13:03:52 retrocomputing is a big thing 13:04:36 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:05:29 licensing 13:05:56 SBCL has the same licensing. 13:06:12 ah okauy 13:06:13 okay * 13:06:18 for most things I just use gnu clisp 13:06:24 windows is new to me 13:06:37 so i am searching for a compiler with a more permissive license. 13:06:42 thanks for the tip on sbcl 13:07:13 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:07:40 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:07:43 clozure cl is under LGPL 13:07:43 Xach: is there a way to force quicklisp NOT to use the lisp implementations built in asdf 13:07:59 PuffTheMagic: load your favorite asdf before loading quicklisp 13:08:12 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:08:12 ok 13:08:53 threaten quicklisp with an rm -rf command if it does not load the asdf you want 13:09:43 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.159.187.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:09:48 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 13:09:59 (asdf:operate 'asdf::fasl-op is the command i need :D 13:11:30 which asdf is that? 13:12:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.232] has joined #lisp 13:12:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.232] has quit [Changing host] 13:12:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:15:58 A recentish one. 13:16:40 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:20:43 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:21:58 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 13:22:47 asdf3 13:24:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:25:27 p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has joined #lisp 13:25:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:27:56 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-144.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:28:02 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-249-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:19 ok another quick question, what is the symbol that stores the file extension for an implementations compiled files? 13:28:51 nm 13:28:51 system:*binary-file-type* 13:29:12 clhs compile-file-pathname 13:29:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp__1.htm 13:29:14 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 13:31:34 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:37 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:35:01 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.222.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:35:40 Denommus [~user@201.75.85.87] has joined #lisp 13:35:43 hi 13:35:57 yello 13:37:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:37:38 -!- v__ [~v@61.170.245.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:38:00 wth is up wich clikit.net etc... 13:38:12 err common-lisp.net 13:38:16 I was going to make a game here in MonoGame (C#), thinking about all my coworkers that don't know CL. And then I found out yesterday that they're discussing a game without telling anything to me (I'm one of the guys of the game development division of the company, so this is some deal). Now I'm saying fuck them, I'm doing Lisp 13:38:19 still down ? 13:38:48 wbooze: For most practical purposes, yes. 13:38:53 paste.lisp.org is up. 13:39:09 ah at least that one 13:39:17 thanky you 13:39:52 Denommus, are they doers? Are you an officer/principal? 13:40:08 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ralucroqjpfehphj] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:42:44 bitonic [~user@176.27.227.101] has joined #lisp 13:43:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:54 -!- olefowdie [~olefowdie@c-76-122-117-251.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:02 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:58 FareWell [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:01 Denommus: there's a #lispgames 13:46:25 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:47:33 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.52.94] has joined #lisp 13:47:45 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:47 RenJuan: in the games division, I'm the main developer, yes 13:48:49 RenJuan: there is other one, but he is not as experienced as me in games. Until some weeks ago, he still thought he would need threads to make each object move independently 13:48:56 Show them all! Write a nicer game you alone in lisp than they could possibly do all of them in C#! 13:49:41 When you have a hammer, 13:49:53 -!- mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 13:50:17 v__ [~v@61.173.85.51] has joined #lisp 13:50:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:50:28 I was making the prototype of my current project for the company in Common Lisp. Now the prototype won't be a prototype any longer 13:50:45 I won't throw it away 13:51:59 Denommus: how do you do the rendering? Are there OpenGL bindings or something? 13:52:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:52:18 Forgetaboutit: lispbuilder-sdl 13:52:36 Denommus: ah, ok. SDL seems nice 13:53:18 it is nice. It has some shortcomings (I don't like how it handles zoom), but it is mostly good 13:53:31 but yes, there are OpenGL bindings, cl-opengl, I guess 13:53:56 daniel_- [~daniel_-@unaffiliated/daniel--/x-1801510] has joined #lisp 13:53:58 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-138-215.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:54:11 knob [~knob@66-50-7-81.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:48 well, at least my project is more solid than seeing other games trailers on YouTube 13:55:55 less talk, more code 13:56:10 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:56:52 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.148] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:56:55 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:56:57 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:06 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:31 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:05 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 14:04:01 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.148] has joined #lisp 14:04:28 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 14:05:32 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:05:45 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:08:13 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:08:14 minion: chant 14:08:15 MORE CODE 14:08:33 lol :D 14:09:32 sztamas [~sztamas@188.24.52.43] has joined #lisp 14:09:57 -!- sztamas [~sztamas@188.24.52.43] has quit [Client Quit] 14:12:22 lukas_ [~lukas@194.228.13.50] has joined #lisp 14:12:33 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.148] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:12:46 -!- lukas_ is now known as Guest64048 14:12:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:19:07 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:10:15 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:15 18:10:15 -!- names: ccl-logbot balajir banjara lduros AeroNotix davazp puchacz ebw jtza8 `arrdem n1x browndawg Knirr cibs valeryz CrazyEddy abeaumont Strigoides hugod Joreji tali713 morphling Bike breakds xificurC ehu Odin- nha kliph zophy hitecnologys adelgado casion icrazyhack Hydan xani` Henesy Tarential ehaliewicz xcombelle solvip gko Adlai pavelpenev yeltzooo Yuuhi s0ber ejohnson Denommus Sambio _d3f wbooze nilsi silenius iLogical dtw gravicappa dmiles cdidd pnpuff 18:10:15 -!- names: MoALTz eldariof spion stassats agumonkey danlentz bjorkintosh Guest54565 kennyd edgar-rft talas Myk267 bioevolgenec TML spacefrogg_ angavrilov Shinmera Fullma b1rkh0ff ryoshu prxq mishoo Mon_Ouie stat_vi yacks sykopomp setmeaway easye weie rking Dalek_Baldwin joshe rpgsimmaster joneshf-laptop ISF KDr2 erikc Tanami Oddity kpreid dented42 nalaginrut Jubb knob tensorpudding _veer alagabes ASau` Nisstyre cyphase blackwolf Krystof notori0us impulse wormphlegm 18:10:15 -!- names: bolcselo macrobat oticat` stardiviner two- Guest36791 rvchangue naryl Vivitron rtoym ogamita Vutral Spion_ Praise antgreen Codynyx [SLB] poindontcare rdd Patzy patrickwonders ucb sirdancealo2 pegu cmm lusory billstclair ianmcorvidae fasta sshirokov _schulte_ sigjuice johs cYmen pers` madnificent The_third_man pib1956 |3b| aajmakin PaulHarr1s CampinSam JPeterson yrk DrCode Anarch loke mathrick_ quazimodo banjiewen pchrist buhman minion specbot freiksenet 18:10:15 -!- names: ozialien copec milosn_ akovalenko miah zbigniew gendl naeg Natch pjb benny ecraven luis leoncamel Xach Ralt arbscht Jabberwockey clog igorw ezakimak ozzloy araujo joast techlife mtd H4ns weirdo NimeshNeema cmbntr scharan _8david rvirding dan64 strobegen maxm srcerer Neptu sbryant antifuchs ether0_ bege Yamazaki1kun froggey flip214_ expez teiresias davorb nuba redline6561 vhost- EvW prip jdz AntiSpamMeta balle arrsim SeanTAllen walter wyan lemoinem gf3 18:10:15 -!- names: Blice_ j_king Posterdati dRbiG nightfly rabite_ foom Tordek az PuffTheMagic wchun karupanerura peterhil Khisanth kanru Amadiro jaimef N3RG4L Adeon em __main__ mutley89 Zhivago ered housel p_l pw_ varjag hpd sepi`` samebchase xorp Euthy cmatei nicdev koisoke tomaw djinni` pkhuong pok cpt_nemo cods felipe guther gabot galdor brucem dlowe hohum Tribal tessier_ sytse spacefrogg^ Nshag erg gemelen newcup rotty tkd schoppenhauer nitefli19 antoszka Subfusc 18:10:15 -!- names: robot-beethoven SHODAN fe[nl]ix surrounder hq1 kirin` zxq9 phadthai spacebat deleuz ivan subtlepath theBlackDragon BlastHardcheese dpwright Viaken smull_ BeLucid_ stopbit tychoish slava dotemacs cic_ ineiros KingNato_ fihi09 TristamWrk Mandus ThePhoeron quasisane nitro_idiot acieroid vsync ting12 yroeht kyl ft eli asedeno aoh daimrod z0d guaqua elliottcable aerique wc Fade jsnell jonasac otwieracz dim eichelbart justinmcp mal_ xrq ramus n0vember cross fmu 18:10:15 -!- names: scode whartung fds eMBee brown` sfa deliciousrobots kranius oGMo brighid ``Erik jasom Borbus stokachu zmyrgel ivan\ setheus_ vert2 peccu1 adeht DrPete arkx DrForr_ tic_ tvaalen sklr eventhorizon gensym oconnore eak felideon yan_ zz__ Tristam finnrobi rfgpfeif1er jayne 18:10:27 panosl [~panos@ppp-2-85-60-127.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:11:50 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 18:13:13 panosf [~panos@ppp-2-85-8-12.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:15:33 -!- panosl [~panos@ppp-2-85-60-127.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:17:22 bioevolgenec1 [~bioevolge@athedsl-89974.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:17:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:18:09 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:45 -!- bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:20:30 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:21:43 hitecnologys: wow, so looks right: (loop #:FOR i from 0 #:UPTO 10 do (format t "~a" (find-symbol "FOR"))) ! 18:22:04 eskatrem [~user@81.60.148.24.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:05 lol 18:23:08 what 18:23:14 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.13.182.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:26:12 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:55 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:42 ehaliewicz: I was trying to write a loop using (loop #:FOR i #:from 0 :upto 10 do ... ) uninterned symbols and keywords 18:34:06 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:34:11 k0001 [~k0001@host29.190-224-49.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:35:47 how long will it take until the convention? I want news about mocl 18:37:11 some of my coworkers are starting to get interested in Common Lisp, but since we work with android development, there's not a practical way of using Common Lisp just yet 18:39:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:03 -!- panosf [~panos@ppp-2-85-8-12.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:42 panosf [~panos@ppp-2-85-8-12.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:41:28 mocl? 18:42:35 Denommus, IIRC there is Common Lisp Armed Bear which is an implementation of common lisp on the JVM 18:42:45 eskatrem: http://wukix.com/mocl 18:42:50 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:43:03 ABCL is not yet for android, but there's some idea of porting it there in the future 18:43:11 mocl so far is vaporware 18:43:18 -!- xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn236.78-98-85.t-com.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:43:21 eskatrem: android's JVM is a bit... different, which makes things more difficult. Clozure already runs on android, though, but it still isn't integrated with the SDK 18:43:25 but it looks like a cool idea 18:44:25 p_l: won't them talk about mocl's development on the next Common Lisp convention, this year? 18:44:33 what do you guys do on android, if it is not secret? 18:44:34 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host29.190-224-49.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:45:26 but uninterned symbols and "uninherited" symbols have the same meaning? .. to say "FOR" is interned while "DO" is inherited so I'm a bit confused... 18:45:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 18:45:48 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:49 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 18:45:57 <|3b|> they are both interned 18:46:09 <|3b|> DO is inherited from CL 18:46:18 eskatrem: some things are secret, but not all. We do some puzzles, some entertainment applications (such as applications for a TV channel, or something similar) 18:46:19 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:38 <|3b|> 'intern' just means it is stored in a package so you can get the same symbol back next time you READ it 18:46:55 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.180.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:47:08 looks neat 18:47:22 <|3b|> 'inherited' has to do with how a symbol is accessible in a particular package, specifically that it is accessible due to being exported from a package the current package :USEs 18:47:51 well, the biggest problem with android development is Java. The second biggest problem with android developer is that the SDK is painful all by itself 18:48:28 so I was hoping to have another language on android for faster prototyping 18:48:41 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:48:53 ebw` [~user@g227064049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:16 *|3b|* should work on my android cl-like more (not that i've done much of anything yet so far) 18:49:25 also, there's the fact that out most experienced Java programmers like to overengineer the projects 18:49:50 s/out/our/ 18:49:54 I haven't played with android yet, but I have to say using java scares me away 18:51:07 I have inflated codebases. That's a reason to like CL so much 18:51:20 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:51:25 as it is well put by Greespun's tenth rule 18:51:38 gosh, I'm making lots of typos today 18:52:39 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:56 -!- ebw [~user@f050209241.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:53:04 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 18:53:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 18:53:04 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:54:29 francogrex [~user@109.128.229.2] has joined #lisp 18:54:39 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:59:16 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 19:02:11 joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:32 dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:31 OOP is so overrated, so overrated, that no OOP programmer realises that a big project without OOP is possible 19:08:32 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:08:51 -!- valeryz [~user@211-62-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:08:58 modularity can be achieved in many ways. oop just happens to be a good way 19:10:07 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:37 -!- francogrex [~user@109.128.229.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:24 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 19:12:24 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-128-221.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:04 I like Joe Armnstrong's quote about OOP: " You wanted a banana but what you got was a gorilla holding the banana and the entire jungle." 19:17:02 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:21 care to explain how oop is the cause? 19:18:50 Thra11 [~thrall@84.93.172.95] has joined #lisp 19:20:08 well, people tend to create huge classes with lots of stuff inside and it becomes impossible to untangle the banana from the gorilla and the jungle 19:20:28 I guess it's more a misuse of OOP than OOP itself 19:21:07 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:14 as somebody else has said, using OOP's good practices to the extreme takes you to functional programming 19:25:06 -!- panosf [~panos@ppp-2-85-8-12.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:26:00 valeryz [~user@211-62-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:30:01 -!- `arrdem [~user@resnet-46-203.dorm.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 19:30:54 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.236.16] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 19:31:37 blody genera 19:31:49 it probably takes one fairly close to functional programming, but not quite. but you can't seriously claim that functional programming somehow makes working in large projects easier than using oo programming(?) 19:32:25 I don't claim that, I don't like to take extremes 19:32:43 *stassats* joined in for a wrong kind of discussion 19:33:03 -!- n1x [~n1x@unaffiliated/n1xnc0d3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:33:05 but I think most OO programmers are braindamaged with OO and can't seem to understand that there are other ways to do stuff 19:33:29 OO is too focused on the agents, functional programming is too focused on the actions. I think we should have an hybrid 19:33:35 like... well... CL 19:33:44 *stassats* awards Denommus one smug-point 19:33:50 that's more like a hydra 19:33:53 haha 19:34:12 xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn236.78-98-85.t-com.sk] has joined #lisp 19:34:56 :) 19:35:06 Denommus: I found here a lot of useful food for thought regarding to your assertions on OOP: http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/07/19/you-wanted-banana/ 19:36:16 so if you wanted a banana but you create a gorilla it's a your error. 19:36:28 i'm familiar with the banana-gorilla-jungle idea. it's just not related to oo programming. it's related to messed up dependencies 19:36:55 it's not about dependencies at all 19:37:25 pnpuff: I wasn't the one to talk about bananas 19:37:34 let's talk burritos 19:37:59 SHODAN: yes and no, with OOP, people tend to make big class that are wrapping lots of stuff together that shouldn't be, and I think OOP is encouraging that behaviour 19:38:32 i can make a mess in a any paradigm, try me 19:38:46 pnpuff: I was the one who mentionned that banana thing 19:38:55 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has left #lisp 19:39:40 I think a PURE oop environemnt (in the sense that you don't have any functional technique) creates an overengineered mess of code 19:39:55 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:27 it depends a lot on the details 19:40:32 -!- joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:49 "oh, you can also see actions as objects, so you create this class and pass as parameter to this other one, and..." 19:40:58 no. I want a function to represent an action. Not an object 19:41:14 i though functions were objects 19:41:26 i think probably imagining how psychological biases work is a waste of time 19:41:31 Denommus, what do you mean by "functional techniques"? Say, if I take care to avoid side effects in java, am I using FP according to you? 19:41:40 minion: chant 19:41:41 MORE LIKE A HYDRA 19:41:55 thanks, minion. 19:42:10 less talk, MORE CODE 19:42:26 I'm talking about first-class functions, lambdas and closures 19:43:10 stassats: you shouldn't need to create a class only to have a function :-S 19:43:19 glad I know CL 19:44:16 you know about the closures-as-objects thing, i hope 19:44:18 don't forget the things you don't know 19:44:44 which is a lot 19:45:13 have you read SICP? 19:45:28 nope 19:45:59 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:46:04 some say CTM is more cool 19:46:22 what I'm trying to say is that not having first-class functions makes me do the work that a compiler should do 19:46:43 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 19:47:26 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:51:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:45 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:48 I recently had to work heavily on a GBBOpen application. After this experience, I can say a nice OO environment can really get you very very far. I even think that GBBOpen is to OO as REPL is to non-OO CL. 19:53:25 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:53:29 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:55:11 n1x [~n1x@unaffiliated/n1xnc0d3] has joined #lisp 19:55:17 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:55:37 meiji11 [~user@d75-158-41-148.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:32 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:00:05 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:03:54 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:06:17 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.167.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:06:48 bitonic [~user@151.225.50.3] has joined #lisp 20:09:35 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:44 if i had control over the mailing list, i'd put pro back to moderated right now. 20:11:08 What's pro? 20:11:18 Bike: the pro@common-lisp.net mailing list 20:11:23 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:25 oh, never heard of it 20:11:30 Bike: "discussion forum for common lisp professionals" 20:11:49 well as an unprofessional i'd better steer clear 20:12:14 mostly personal insults anyway 20:12:39 mostly "what should or shouldn't be on pro@" 20:14:46 how do i unsubscribe on this new mailing list abomination? 20:15:23 _ 20:15:23 ? 20:15:40 the html interface is no longer working 20:16:00 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:16:07 really! 20:16:09 oh, i see "To unsubscribe send a message to: pro+unsubscribe@common-lisp.net" 20:16:31 uh... I'd like to know how I could get a cloak 20:16:38 *stassats* unsubscribed, there was never anything of value 20:16:50 right now I'm using tor to hide my IP 20:16:52 Denommus: ask in #freenode 20:17:00 ok 20:17:41 what do you guys think about comp.lang.lisp? 20:17:54 that's full of rubbish 20:17:57 that it's 20:18:14 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Changing host] 20:18:14 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:18:14 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Changing host] 20:18:14 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:18:45 It's a lost paradize. 20:19:02 -!- n1x [~n1x@unaffiliated/n1xnc0d3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:58 "Goodbye! You have been removed from the pro@common-lisp.net mailinglist.", yay, no more "don't be mean" nonsense 20:21:11 personally, I like Google+'s Common Lisp group. While it's pretty dead, it is friendly 20:22:02 Given the last page of scrollback, a look at the current pro@common-lisp.net archive might be interesting: http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.cl-pro 20:22:11 perhaps it should be called pro-meta@common-lisp.net ? 20:22:47 rvirding: or the problem might lie somewhere else 20:23:02 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 20:24:10 never tried it myself, just a reflection on what some said the main topic seemed to be :-) 20:24:58 I don't see anything meta there. 20:26:31 -!- nightfly is now known as nightfly__ 20:26:40 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 20:28:36 -!- TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:28:57 TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has joined #lisp