21:01:29 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:30 21:01:30 -!- names: ccl-logbot mee zomgbie pdo gz lispm V-ille wareya srolls homie` wbooze` tanuzzo Fullma incandenza Hraban _joey bashyal guaqua stis Beetny bgs100 xan_ lisppaste jtrag varjag benny s1gma_ redline6561 b-man_ mega1 smanek pierrep vu3rdd moah Evil_ gravicappa kclifton hohoho SegFaultAX weirdo Kenjin Ragnaroek_ rfg jmbr mstevens Blkt Guthur vandemar Joreji daniel__ peterhil humasect dto tama_ gonzojive ASau roygbiv LiamH tcr clop Dawgmatix fiveop milanj lonstein 21:01:30 -!- names: lemoinem ikki Xach legumbre_ Fare wuj jmcphers tritchey nyef ska`` froydnj Salamander_ serichsen Yuuhi JuanDaugherty billstclair pjb mbohun arbscht urandom__ H4ns billitch pavelludiq nikodemus ost` mrSpec dfox Nshag SCVirus angavrilov nowhereman ``Erik svr yakov ehu deepfire rdd johs pok dborba The_Jon_Smith abend cataska dys specbot franki^ fihi09 rbarraud MultiMind Obfuscate mornfall austinh ivan4th s0ber AntiSpamMeta xinming Odin- minion jsoft_ cods 21:01:30 -!- names: qebab debiandebian seejay` kuwabara boysetsf1og srcerer cmm- dostoyev1ky pkhuong_ Adamant slyrus__ sellout djinni` naryl baley Buganini stepnem Dodek mathrick Kaes rootzlevel pchrist_ super__ katofiad setheus Quadrescence kleppari Intensity emma hdurer`` c|mell chandler johanbev_ spiaggia lusory skalawag BrianRice svk_ Guest22034 Anarch Euthydemus hugod TomJ lnostdal fmu housel sepi vinnana rtoym quasisane derrida beach sonnym tychoish logia_th Modius 21:01:30 -!- names: mulander yan_ eno Tristam cmeow sigjuice Xof cow-orker fe[nl]ix clog prip Pepe_ kloeri kmc nasloc__ krl krappie_ petter` sbahra Axioplase dmiles_afk kvsari Tasunteld gds mal__ Borbus erk_ scode holycow tomaw foom bfein lichtblau sie Tordek schmrkc sykopomp vs marienz ineiros stettberger tic mgr Adrinael phadthai zeroish Aisling starseeker bzzbzz_ l_a_m hdurer_ mtd drakko antoszka hohum Fade cpt_nemo felipe qsun tessier vsync fda314925 guther bobbysmith007 21:01:30 -!- names: codemonkeyx delYsid eli eldragon Draggor rotty koollman boyscared yahooooo @slyrus_ ramus Kovensky Khisanth _3b` Dazhbog OliverUv m4thrick antifuchs gnooth CrazyEddy jsnell cYmen ecraven aoh blitz_ p_l rullie `micro joshe sid3k Bucciarati Yamazaki-kun joast turbo24prg acieroid hypno nuba rapacity luis zbigniew dose lharc tvaalen ianmcorvidae albino _3b tokenrove PissedNumlock herbieB_ [df] galdor dcrawford nullman spacebat Zhivago jpanest amaron jrockway 21:02:18 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:03:01 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-6-221.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 21:06:04 silly question, but can someone take a look at the way i solved euler#1 (sum of multiples of 3 and 5 under 1k) and tell me if it reeks of non-lispyness?: http://github.com/yan/euler/blob/master/lisp/prob_001.lisp 21:06:19 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:23 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 21:06:29 why use a macro? 21:08:02 lispm: to practice macros? also, i wanted to have a generic test for divisors, so it builds the (or..) test testing for each divisor 21:08:11 <_3b> yeah, don't see a reason for a macro there, and not sure about breaking it up that much 21:08:29 (quit) 21:08:29 -!- tanuzzo [~silvio@15-166.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:08:32 huups 21:08:41 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-170-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:08:46 a macro makes no sense 21:08:47 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-170-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:09:15 -!- jtrag [~jtrageser@c-174-55-74-243.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:09:25 write functions instead of macros 21:09:55 -!- mee [~mee@li94-42.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 21:10:06 -!- bashyal [~bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:25 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:10:29 basically it looks like code obfuscation ;-) 11:29:15 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:15 11:29:15 -!- names: ccl-logbot krappie_ Zephyrus starseek1r urandom__ rpx__ pavelludiq morphling loxs V-ille stassats homie` wbooze` attila_lendvai mal__ rdd Joreji Guthur Davidbrcz BrandLeeJones lhz ska` dfox Ragnaroek Jabberwockey nowhere_man rootzlevel H4ns`` timor Athas naryl mcsontos sellout gravicappa Nshag fiveop quotemstr ehu nikodemus stis tcr jewel xyxxyyy serichsen freiksenet Deesl hohum_ setheus gz` antivigilante smanek Kenjin_ humasect gigamonkey gz incandenza 11:29:15 -!- names: simplechat hadronzoo dys xavieran ost``` logia_th legumbre peterhil Kaer cch jso katesmith ragnul redline6561 MetalDust fe[nl]ix Beetny Fullma c|mell billstclair Xach TomJ austinh SCVirus Euthydemus sonnym hugod Demosthenes benny dborba _3b` sbahra ``Erik emma zvrba bhyde gnooth daniel tsuru Dodek xinming_ lnostdal Ralith jmcphers TraumaPony ASau` pjb moah z0d debiandebian schmrkc sykopomp boysetsfrog wol adeht skalawag Intensity amaron phadthai Jasko svr1 11:29:15 -!- names: Hraban guaqua lisppaste mstevens vandemar clop lonstein lemoinem Fare Salamander_ JuanDaugherty mbohun arbscht angavrilov deepfire johs pok abend cataska specbot franki^ fihi09 Obfuscate mornfall ivan4th s0ber AntiSpamMeta Odin- minion jsoft_ cods qebab seejay` kuwabara srcerer cmm- dostoyev1ky pkhuong_ Adamant slyrus__ djinni` baley Buganini stepnem mathrick super__ Quadrescence kleppari hdurer`` chandler johanbev spiaggia lusory BrianRice svk_ Anarch fmu 11:29:15 -!- names: housel sepi vinnana rtoym quasisane derrida beach tychoish mulander yan_ eno Tristam cmeow sigjuice Xof cow-orker clog prip Pepe_ kloeri kmc nasloc__ krl petter` Axioplase_ dmiles_afk kvsari Tasunteld gds Borbus erk_ scode holycow tomaw foom bfein lichtblau sie Tordek vs marienz ineiros stettberger tic mgr Adrinael zeroish Aisling starseeker l_a_m hdurer_ mtd drakko antoszka Fade cpt_nemo felipe qsun vsync fda314925 guther bobbysmith007 codemonkeyx delYsid 11:29:15 -!- names: eli [df] galdor dcrawford nullman spacebat Zhivago jpanest jrockway herbieB_ PissedNumlock tokenrove _3b albino ianmcorvidae tvaalen lharc dose zbigniew luis rapacity nuba hypno acieroid turbo24prg joast Yamazaki-kun sid3k joshe `micro rullie p_l blitz_ aoh ecraven cYmen jsnell CrazyEddy antifuchs m4thrick OliverUv Dazhbog Khisanth Kovensky ramus @slyrus_ yahooooo boyscared koollman rotty Draggor eldragon 11:29:54 -!- starseeker [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:06 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu290.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:31:13 rpx__: you are doing nothing wrong 11:31:48 Xach: what can I do about> doing float to pointer coercion (cost 13) to "" 11:31:57 rpx__: returning a double float directly requires boxing 11:32:13 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:32:21 rpx__: one option is not to worry about it. is it a critical slowdown in your application? 11:32:23 Where can I read up on boxing? (I have no clue what that means) 11:32:36 rpx__: Most implementations would not allow you to return an immediate double-float value from the function, because other functions compiled without knowing about your declaration would misinterpret the return value. 11:32:47 Xach: Well it is a part of the most critical part 11:32:50 <_3b> for a function like that, i'd probably just inline it and not worry about specific declarations for it 11:33:03 <_3b> (declaim it inline, not inline it by hand, that is) 11:33:29 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 11:34:58 I have a function, pure-likelihood, that I need to get really optimal,, here is the ful code http://pastebin.com/G0idaHrw 11:35:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-5.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:35:23 But I do not know how to do it correctly,, I am just fumbeling in the dark 11:35:54 really optimal in what direction? 11:36:13 Xach: I just need speed 11:37:04 <_3b> well, you might start by doing a bit of readability optimization, and use full words for identifiers instead of short lumps of consonants :) 11:37:15 (declare (double-float A)) there is redundant 11:37:38 _3b: Sorry for that,, 11:37:51 stassats: okay, thanks 11:38:21 stassats: I am just trying to through everything at it 11:39:18 and (safety 0) is unsafe and prone to cause headaches, unless you're sure it can't do anything wrong 11:39:21 <_3b> are the arrays you pass to pure-likelihood actually arbitrary size/shape? 11:39:51 one subscript of aref suggests no 11:39:58 _3b: Well they are not resizeable, but they are unknown when I lunch the program 11:40:32 (simple-array double-float *) => (simple-array double-float (*)) 11:41:15 stassats: What is the difference between the two 11:41:35 *_3b* was going to skip the complaint about not using lisppaste, but since i actually wanted to use the clhs link lisppaste would have had, i'll add that as well :) 11:41:38 the latter is a vector 11:41:42 rpx__: one means any number of dimensions, one means one dimension of arbitrary size 11:41:59 Xach: thanks 11:43:46 Xach: but to understand the> doing float to pointer coercion (cost 13) to "" << I should read up about boxing 11:44:01 Thanks all by the way for the help 11:44:23 Everytime I am here I learn a lot 11:44:28 not related to optimization, but double floats can be written as -2d0 instead of -2.0d0 11:44:32 <_3b> rpx__: a double-float doesn't fit in an immediate value, so it needs to store it somewhere and return a pointer to the value 11:44:44 i prefer the former style 11:45:03 _3b: Are single floats better? 11:45:13 <_3b> rpx__: and just decliaming the return type isn't enough, since you could for example store #'exp-top somewhere, then funcall it 11:45:21 stassats: thanks, I will start using that,, it is shorter 11:45:25 rpx__: does it suit you? 11:45:36 <_3b> rpx__: on 64 bit platforms, yes 11:45:54 rpx__: boxing is just runtime type marker your vm wraps around the value. sometimes it's just a few tag bits (e.g. how fixnums are a few bits smaller than the machine word size), and sometimes it's a full extra word indirection... 11:45:57 I will try to make everything single-float and see if it works 11:46:09 Xach: thanks for your quicklisp survey! there are many more ABCL users than I had dared dreaming of! 11:46:34 <_3b> rpx__: i'd inline it, since the function is short 11:46:45 Alright,, I will try to change my code.. thanks for all the help,, and I will read up about boxing / it sounds interesting 11:46:48 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:46:52 <_3b> rpx__: and use (expt (- x mu) 2) rather than (* (- x mu) (- x mu)) 11:46:55 (assuming there are more than 460 sbcl users in the world, there are probably by extension also more than 16 abcl users in the world) 11:47:12 ehu: you're not last! woo hoo! 11:47:15 _3b: expt is faster in this case 11:47:23 Xach: exactly! 11:47:25 <_3b> or at least test both, since i guess you multiply it by something else 11:47:34 <_3b> rpx__: it was last time i tried 11:47:41 Xach: that's actually a big step. Two years ago I would have been. 11:47:47 _3b: thanks for the suggestion, I will try both 11:48:01 I'd also use loop for pure-likelihood: (loop for x across point for mu across mean for is across indv summing (exp-top x mu is) into A double-float finally (return exp-final A cnst)) 11:48:12 <_3b> since the exponent is a constant 2, sbcl optimizes it, but it doesn't do CSE so it couldn't optimize out the repeated (- x mu) 11:48:32 rpx__: and the compiler might not optimize (- x mu) (- x mu) into a single operation 11:48:34 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:48:59 adeht: thanks, It looks nice 11:49:12 _3b: thanks 11:49:12 faux [~user@79.138.223.26.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 11:49:46 stassats: alright i will try both, but it is very interesting 11:49:47 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:50:10 *_3b* would also skip the (safety 0) as well, but i prefer to optimize for less debugging time over that last tiny bit of speed :) 11:50:42 _3b: ok - safety 0 is not worth it 11:50:46 fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has joined #lisp 11:51:14 you can set safety to 0 when you've finally debugged it and proved its correctness 11:51:24 Well, I think I really need to do some unit testing,, there are so many steps that can go wrong now 11:51:28 <_3b> and verified you input is always correct :p 11:52:04 <_3b> (and also benchmarked to make sure safety 0 actually makes enough difference in the final code) 11:52:26 Is there any interesting tools to do benchmarks 11:52:27 i had a case when safety 0 decreased performance 11:52:41 by a very minute amount, though 11:53:04 rpx__: generally, time works pretty well 11:53:06 <_3b> i mostly just use TIME and sb-sprof (through the slime contrib these days) 11:53:07 clhs time 11:53:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_time.htm 11:53:09 I've used some libraries that use (safety 0). Very unfriendly when you pass the wrong-sized integer and your system gets corrupted. 11:53:18 <_3b> sb-bench might be interesting soon too though 11:53:43 rpx__: slime-sprof 11:53:56 thanks, I played a bit with time 11:53:56 <_3b> yeah, (safety 0) without an input validation layer is particularly rude in a library API :) 11:54:11 and tested sb-sprof once,, but I never tested slime-prof 11:54:30 It sounds like I should stay away from _3b 11:54:35 3b: interesting.. I expected it to eliminate the common subexpressions 11:54:40 it's easy as M-x slime-sprof-start [run some code] M-x slime-sprof-browser 11:54:57 but inlined functions doesn't make it easier to understand 11:55:03 (Xach: By the way, I read your article about packages and make "projects" It helpt alot,, thanks for that) 11:55:06 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:12 <_3b> adeht: it could be that i'm misremembering, or there was some other problem affecting it when i was testing 11:55:18 ehu: I would love to see if trying 300+ libraries on ABCL helps improve both ABCL and the libraries. 11:55:19 stassats: so no inlining 11:55:24 3b: no, you're right 11:55:25 rpx__: glad to hear it 11:55:43 Xach: quicklisp is 300+ libraries?! 11:55:44 wow. 11:55:45 <_3b> rpx__: inlining is good, it just makes the profiling less useful 11:55:46 Xach: It was clear and very helpful 11:55:57 rpx__: i usually do M-% inline RET notinline RET before profiling 11:56:02 Xach: who helps you with all those? 11:56:04 _3b: Alright, so no inlining until much later.. final step 11:56:05 <_3b> rpx__: so it is good to profile first, to help decide where to inline 11:56:07 do you do that alone? 11:56:16 Xach: well, lets get that addressed! 11:56:19 and the other way around when finished 11:56:43 Xach: one problem has been identified already: we don't work well with cl+ssl, because of the + in the filename. 11:56:48 Alright guys, thanks a lot, I wish you an excellent day or evening,, I will start reading up on these things 11:56:51 but we're working on that. 11:57:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-59.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 11:57:02 *_3b* would not change inlining for profiling, since if it was worth inlining, undoing that would skew the profile results 11:57:27 _3b: it helps me to understand which part is slow 11:57:36 ehu: http://quicklisp.org/beta/releases.html 11:57:41 -!- rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:58:05 mega1 [~quassel@pool-03710.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:58:06 surely, in some cases an inlined function is modified beyond recognition, but still 11:58:12 <_3b> stassats: possibly i use inlining differently 11:58:15 ehu: I do it all...with Lisp as my intelligent assistant! 11:58:53 hehe. right. that's why you were building the dependency graph from asd systems. 11:59:03 _3b: i guess i do both, inlined and not 11:59:06 do you also maintain patches? 11:59:12 I need to write an article about how I scrape dependencies and handle the odd cases 11:59:13 <_3b> particularly without safety 0, declarations in an inlined function can make the non-inlined version much slower 11:59:36 in order to make unmaintained / low activity level maintained packages work on recent enough releases? 11:59:41 ehu: No. At the moment whenever someone has a problem with library x on implementation y, I suggest they check with x's author. 11:59:51 ok. 11:59:58 that makes things a lot simpler. 12:00:16 ehu: If the demand for upgrading abandoned ancient library x gets high enough, I'd be willing to adopt them under some kind of quicklisp custodianship. 12:00:23 But I'm not going to do that in advance of demand. 12:00:36 sure. 12:00:59 <_3b> Xach: was there a chart of which things worked where somewhere? 12:01:03 well, same here, with the exact goal to make them work on ABCL; not to fix other bugs. 12:01:04 and M-x slime-disassemble-definition is useful too, i have it bound to C-c M-d 12:01:26 doesn't work on methods, though 12:01:29 yet 12:01:59 _3b: no 12:02:17 <_3b> ok, i must have been thinking of something else then 12:02:29 _3b: the stuff on that releases list is "stuff that works on ubuntu 10.04 amd64 with sbcl and suitable foreign libraries installed" 12:02:48 I need to make it easy to do the same for other combinations. 12:03:00 10.04 is out of vogue already 12:03:00 dbr [~dbr@p5B1238F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:10 -!- dbr is now known as dbrunner 12:03:18 LTS never goes out of vogue 12:03:18 *dbrunner* 12:03:41 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:06:30 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 12:06:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-59.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:06:51 -!- starseek1r is now known as starseeker 12:08:37 Fisher [~Fisher@net-93-71-241-44.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 12:08:42 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:55 hi 12:09:02 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:18 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:03 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 12:12:34 hi Fisher 12:13:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:14:02 gabnet [~gabnet@252.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:32 -!- Fisher [~Fisher@net-93-71-241-44.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 12:16:19 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:26 -!- hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:26:33 hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:26 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 12:27:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 12:27:26 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:30:26 -!- faux [~user@79.138.223.26.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:36:19 easyE [GGHblvdI6u@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:30 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.216] has joined #lisp 12:37:17 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:38:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:41:34 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 12:42:02 faux [~user@79.138.223.26.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 12:43:09 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:44:16 -!- hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:47:57 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:52:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 12:53:45 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:54:10 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-175-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:54:17 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 12:54:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 12:54:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:54:24 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-175-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:57:58 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:47 francogrex [~user@109.130.172.89] has joined #lisp 13:01:54 sbcl (dribble)s all interactions to a file while ECL (the recent)s dribbles only when in debugger. Is this still conformant behavior? 13:08:02 dribble should output all interfactions. 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:50 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:13:29 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.120] has joined #lisp 13:16:14 xan_ [~xan@i220-220-7-170.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:18:22 LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:51 Abadon [~user@unaffiliated/abadon] has joined #lisp 13:21:02 hi what's the prefered beginner book for learning common Lisp 13:21:18 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-233.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:21:30 Abadon: i like Practical Common Lisp and Paradigms of AI Programming 13:22:08 Xach: for a new programmer? 13:22:47 Abadon: I don't know. I think it's worth a try. I read them when I was not new. 13:22:59 phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:23:03 Abadon: there's also another one that I think is meant to be gentler 13:23:06 minion: gentle? 13:23:06 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 13:23:11 ok Thanks 13:23:40 -!- Abadon [~user@unaffiliated/abadon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:49 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 13:24:58 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-28-179.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:25:25 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@c-67-183-23-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 13:26:27 pjb: could you please test your version now to see if you have the same observation, 13:26:28 ? 13:27:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@i220-220-7-170.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:30:32 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-89-10.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:31:31 fiveop_ [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-133-039.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:46 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:32:58 e-future [~e-future@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 13:32:58 -!- e-future [~e-future@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Changing host] 13:32:58 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 13:33:28 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-139-181.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:35:44 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-175-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:35:45 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-175-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:36:34 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:34 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:36:34 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 13:37:44 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:42 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:56 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 13:52:38 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-38-205.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:55:27 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 13:55:48 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:56 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-69-60.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:57:46 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-61-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:59:10 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-147-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:05 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:00:08 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:01:32 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:06:04 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:04 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.172.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:56 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:54 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:12:47 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:20:05 rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:28:38 ikki [~ikki@189.247.72.46] has joined #lisp 14:30:55 bhyde1 [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:06 -!- bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:31:37 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 14:31:37 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 14:34:49 TomJ- [~tomj@89.241.159.104] has joined #lisp 14:34:54 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:08 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:37:18 xan_ [~xan@i60-42-240-187.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:37:59 -!- fiveop_ [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-133-039.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:38:11 francogrex [~user@109.130.172.89] has joined #lisp 14:38:48 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.241.147.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:54 How to do if I want to have a package (one lisp file) get integrated during the building on sbcl ? 14:39:19 mcspiff [~user@142.68.76.29] has joined #lisp 14:39:55 francogrex: What are you actually trying to accomplish? 14:40:37 francogrex: Load it after the fact, and then save a .core file. 14:40:41 is there a format control (or combination of) to limit the length of a string printed? I'm looking to produce output like "very long string..." from input like "very long string goes on and on and on" 14:41:00 I have a package called utils that has functions special for windows like utils:read-line-with-crlf etc I'd like instead of loading it have it already in the sbcl distribution that I make for muyself 14:41:13 beach ok 14:41:13 Ah. Go with what beach suggested. 14:41:49 *nyef* was afraid it was going to be something more complicated, like getting the package into the cold-core. 14:46:14 nevermind, subseq and concatenate did the trick. 14:47:30 Right, so I have an sqlite database (this is fixed, and not going away) and I'd like to build a bit of a web interface to the data stored within. Can anyone recommend a web framework suitable for a smallish, not too complex application that's not going to drive me crazy? 14:47:37 Or do I resort to just hunchentoot? 14:47:54 I'll use sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die then 14:48:19 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:40 cl-sql, sqlite 14:49:43 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:44 -!- rullie [~rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176149432.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 14:50:03 web front-ends have not much to do with database access 14:50:07 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:50:35 they can deliver content yes but, there must be something wich processes them before the final delivery 14:51:02 so you need something sqlite specific 14:51:09 which is the package sqlite i think 14:51:16 i'm using clsql in the majority of my code, but that's causing problems with weblocks 14:51:26 ah 14:51:28 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 14:51:46 i don't konw does clsql come with sqlite support ? 14:51:57 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.172.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:02 yes 14:52:21 so the problem is rather weblocks then ? 14:52:32 maybe use another web framework ? 14:52:43 indeed, which brings me back to the original question 14:52:49 cl-who ? 14:53:05 Or is the problem the integration between cl-sql and sqlite? 14:53:19 ... is cl-who an actual server, or just some html-munging code? 14:53:34 i think the latter 14:53:44 so you have to have a server running 14:53:48 apache side 14:54:00 hmmm, ok hunchentoo then 14:54:05 +t 14:54:19 Right, which puts you back to hunchentoot, ucw, weblocks, or (dear god no) araneida. 14:54:21 the clsql + sqlite side works just fine 14:54:43 -!- bhyde1 is now known as bhyde 14:55:02 i've played with hunchentoot + cl-who and weblocks; weblocks has succeeded in irritating me, so if there are no better suggestions then it'll have to be hunchentoot + cl-who 14:55:12 but i thought i'd check for recommended alternatives first 14:55:29 nyef: cl-who is essentially one macro and its function twin 14:55:40 Well, you have my recommendation for not-araneida. 14:55:54 noted :) 14:55:54 fe[nl]ix: That sounds about like what I expected, yes. 14:56:34 anyone using modlisp ? 14:57:33 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:01 It's... somewhat rare. I think you'll find mod_proxy-based solutions to be more common. 14:58:21 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:58:28 wbooze: i am 14:58:29 sorry, not modlisp, but mod_lisp2 together with tbnl 14:58:50 minion: memo for francogrex: I confirm that in ecl-10.7.1, dribble doesn't dribble the normal REPL interactions, but only error stuff. 14:58:50 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 15:01:19 Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:02:05 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 15:07:05 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:07:29 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:34 A friend needs to write an html parser in lisp for his homework. What can you suggest? 15:10:42 I hope it's not hand-code? :) 15:10:56 naryl: well, I suggest he do his own homework. 15:11:00 just steal it! 15:11:03 naryl: it's the best way to learn 15:11:05 clhs closure-html 15:11:05 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for closure-html. 15:11:08 errr 15:11:11 minion: closure-html 15:11:12 closure-html: Closure-html is a portable HTML parsing library that understands malformed HTML. http://www.cliki.net/closure-html 15:11:37 he will, he's asking for some libraries for implementing parsers. 15:11:53 closure-html is pretty sweet. 15:11:54 stassats: I'm afraid his teachers already know all existing implementations :) 15:12:07 I use it to screen-scrape municipal websites. 15:12:09 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:12:10 well, he can rename it and mangle the code a bit 15:12:15 -_- 15:13:09 cristina [~cristina@79.171.163.162] has joined #lisp 15:13:17 -!- cristina [~cristina@79.171.163.162] has left #lisp 15:14:43 *stassats* needs to update his imdb-scrapping code for IMDb, because of the new layout 15:14:47 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:11 stassats: we need to write smarter code, able to extract the information from changing pages. 15:15:41 stassats: that was the plan I had when I write my own scrapper, but then the customer was happy with the results and didn't finance the smart part. 15:15:55 s/write/wrote/ 15:16:43 is htmlgen an option too ? 15:16:49 just for html stuff ? 15:17:31 pjb: no, wee need more sites providing API 15:18:46 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:19:31 stassats: that's an unending task. 15:19:47 Better make a smart guy to do it for ever. 15:20:09 i don't think you can get 100% success anyway 15:20:31 Yes, people sometimes don't understand a web page. But then it's the fault of the web page designer. 15:21:22 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:21:23 clearly, we just need to wait for the advent of Semantic Web 15:21:48 Probably won't happen. 15:22:13 Eg. nowdays, more and more ideas are not even _written_ in blogs but rather are difused thru videos on youtube or sites such as ted.com. 15:22:37 Sure they're trying to catch up with transcriptions and translations (on ted.com), but this is far from semantic web. 15:23:15 I kind of feel more and more a pressing need for strong AI... 15:23:36 i never wanted to scrap such sites, only ones which present somewhat structured information 15:23:43 such as imdb, freebase, etc. 15:23:57 stassats: imdb publishes its database in computer readable form! 15:24:05 wikipedia too. 15:24:07 but it's incomplete 15:24:23 What's missing? 15:24:24 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:24:43 at least links to imdb pages 15:25:11 can't you easily reconstitute them from the various IDs? 15:25:12 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:25:34 well, that's the problem, it doesn't have any IDs 15:25:36 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:26:04 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:00 Right, indeed. 15:27:53 But still, I'd fell better rebuilding the links from the files they provide than from the web... 15:27:58 s/fell/feel/ 15:28:10 -!- drakko [~andy@pool-96-224-58-211.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:22 i actually use both 15:30:08 Good. 15:31:31 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:32:14 iNtERrUp_ [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 15:32:46 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:54 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:36 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:34:42 -!- TomJ- [~tomj@89.241.159.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:43 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082B81E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:19 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:20 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-210-52.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:36:35 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:40 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 15:37:28 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@i60-42-240-187.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:38:04 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BCDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:38:38 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-159-9.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:39:02 -!- iNtERrUp_ [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:16 xan_ [~xan@i60-42-240-187.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:40:49 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@121.166.245.33] has joined #lisp 15:42:10 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:42:17 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:42 iNtERrUp_ [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 15:43:10 emma [~em@user-0ccem2q.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:10 -!- emma [~em@user-0ccem2q.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:43:10 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:43:54 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:45:08 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@121.166.245.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:45:54 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:47:13 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:49:08 slyrus_: around? 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16:07:36 not with TRACE 16:08:21 I am adding (format t ...) now 16:08:45 TomJ [~tomj@89.241.159.104] has joined #lisp 16:09:00 puchacz: you could always write a higher-order function that wraps anonymous functions and traces them. 16:09:33 Xach: ok, I guess I know what you mean. 16:09:36 I will try 16:09:43 thx 16:12:36 puchacz: depends on the implementation. 16:13:22 nw, I am fine with manual adding of messages and higher order function wrapper. 16:13:54 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 16:14:12 (trace ... :encapsulate nil) in sbcl 16:16:03 jsnell, how exactly, pls? (defun foo (input1) (lambda (input2) (do-something input1 input2))) 16:16:37 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:03 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:23 -!- easyE [GGHblvdI6u@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:16 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has joined #lisp 16:22:18 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:49 the ... there should be an expression that evaluates to the closure you want to trace 16:28:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:28:18 ... Does it actually evaluate such expressions? 16:28:47 ah, you're probably right 16:28:48 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-89-10.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:07 so let's say you have the closure in the variable *foo*, you could do 16:29:15 (trace #.*foo* :encapsulate nil) 16:29:28 or (eval `(trace ,*foo* :encapsulate nil)) 16:31:02 thx 16:33:25 jsnell: is there a way to "address" local functions for tracing in SBCL? ie: (trace (local-function foo bar)) to trace FLET/LABELS function BAR inside foo. 16:33:28 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 16:33:32 Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-22-51.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:33:34 someone asked about this for ABCL 16:35:58 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-132-92-254.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:07 no 16:36:24 I think that's an allegroism 16:36:26 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:31 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.190.181] has joined #lisp 16:36:40 ooh, what do you know, there's a (trace nil :function *foo*) 16:38:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-59.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 08:01:13 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:13 08:01:13 -!- names: ccl-logbot AntiSpamMeta attila_lendvai kooll Beetny HG` zomgbie aerique V-ille HET2 abeaumont jdz ehu daniel blandest xan_ mcsontos gonzojive flip214 freiksenet stettberger pavelludiq mrSpec Demosthenes pierrep rme scharan adu cch gemelen vu3rdd antivigilante spradnyesh Cowmoo petabit katofiad xinming incandenza scottj dto skalawag dys echo-area rtoym legumbre billstclair symbole Ralith dborba sabalaba BrianRice sonnym xyxxyyy Hraban rbarraud 08:01:13 -!- names: coyo|pingout s0ber_ JuanDaugherty Jasko Kaer atomx Patzy humasect Modius redline6561 jpd Fare tsuru benny adeht rlb3 jmcphers younder naryl rdd mega1_ hugod Nshag Tristam PascalHunger vandemar 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[~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 08:09:55 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:03 jrockway [~jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 08:20:19 pavelludiq_ [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has joined #lisp 08:20:25 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:27 -!- pavelludiq_ [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:11 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-93-39-114.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:32:55 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-93-39-114.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 08:35:02 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 08:36:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:41:34 nikodemus [~AndChat@87-93-39-114.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:46:02 -!- nikodemus [~AndChat@87-93-39-114.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 08:46:11 yan_: yes 08:47:01 H4ns 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error: Operation timed out] 09:00:45 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:26 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 09:06:00 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 612 seconds] 09:06:27 andreas1 [~andreas@p4FF2A25B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:44 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:06:45 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 09:06:56 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cbrqdirhrubwrgut] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:07:26 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:08:23 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ohpvjpkppbxmusvd] has joined #lisp 09:16:16 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06da93.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:18 Hello! 09:16:37 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:16:50 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 09:16:50 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 09:16:50 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:17:01 good morning 09:18:39 I'd like to return a function R from a function F; and the parameter list of the returned function R shall depend on a parameter to F. Is that possible without using eval? 09:19:01 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 09:19:26 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ohpvjpkppbxmusvd] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:19:43 flip214: maybe use a macro? 09:19:52 flip214: or do you need F to be a function? 09:20:41 I think it's not possible with any intermediate macro layers; and yes, F needs to be a function 09:20:58 flip214: (1) return a different function depending on the parameter to F (2) return a function with &rest list and parse that in R depending on the parameter to F 09:21:28 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:38 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 09:23:06 also: it's semantically equivalent to EVAL, but you might want consider using COMPILE instead. but unless R is a bottleneck, I'd go with #1 or #2 above 09:24:36 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 09:27:07 nikodemus: thanks. but 1) might lead to an explosion of variants, 2) changes optimization of the compiled functions 09:28:29 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:29:58 -!- scharan [~scharan@nat/yahoo/x-jzhacqgtzvltrquk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:30:34 flip214: how many variants are you likely to have? 09:31:38 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 612 seconds] 09:32:01 one fun option is to return a funcallable instance that starts out with isntance function (lambda (&rest args) ...) -- doing the slow thing, but which changes its instance function to an optimized on after it has been called N times 09:32:26 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mvliqarbxlxdkmmr] has joined #lisp 09:32:58 anyways, if you go the COMPILE route, do memoize the things (even if in a size-limited cache) unless calls to F are few and far between 09:35:09 Is there any actual difference between compile and eval lambda on sbcl? On ecl there is a big difference. 09:38:08 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has joined #lisp 09:39:22 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:40:05 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 09:40:42 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:43:50 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:46:13 angavrilov: depends on *evaluator-mode*, for one :) 09:46:39 if it's :interpret, then eval is going to give you a slow lambda very quickly! 09:47:33 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:52:14 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 624 seconds] 09:55:33 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:32 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9E603.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:04 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:58:44 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-53.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 09:59:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 09:59:35 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 10:00:18 -!- H4ns [~user@p579F8A9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12:02 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 624 seconds] 10:13:22 rudi_ [~rudi@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:16:01 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 10:16:41 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:29 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:21:43 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:22:38 urandom__ [~user@p548A7387.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:28 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:28:42 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:29:02 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:29:09 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:29:10 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BBB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:46 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:36:47 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:37:47 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:42:34 Krystof [~csr21@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:43:07 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 10:46:36 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:48:57 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:53:43 yunsangho [~root@211.172.21.194] has joined #lisp 10:54:01 -!- yunsangho [~root@211.172.21.194] has left #lisp 10:54:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:32 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:01:55 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok094010.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:10:14 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:29 tfb [~tfb@92.40.76.54.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:12:39 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 11:17:27 -!- ohih0wru [~ohih0wru@80.233.141.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:21:34 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.76.54.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:30:50 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 11:37:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:20 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:45:06 -!- 13WAAKAVO is now known as Salamander 11:45:34 tfb [~tfb@92.40.76.54.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:45:48 etenil [~user@82.45.133.100] has joined #lisp 11:45:50 Hi there 11:45:53 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46:27 I've installed slime-mode with sbcl on emacs, and it's weird because I can't seem to exit it by evaluating (quit) 11:48:29 <_8david> ISTR that SBCL does something annoying with (quit) and threads. It only terminates the thread instead of DTRT and exiting the process or so. 11:48:55 well how can I exit slime-mode then? 11:49:15 kill the buffer 11:49:18 ah 11:49:20 it will terminate the process 11:49:25 that's not very graceful :D 11:49:32 ,quit 11:49:44 etenil: it works 11:49:48 it works 11:49:49 <_8david> yeah, ,quit aka M-x slime-quit-lisp is an option 11:49:54 thanks Krystof 11:50:03 just press comma and hit tab many enough times 11:50:17 <_8david> (quit :recklessly-p t), while unrelated to slime, is also very useful to have, and actually works as advertised 11:51:18 ok 11:51:28 -!- Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:51:34 I just received a nice hardback copy of Practical Lisp 11:51:34 :D 11:51:45 *etenil* is impatient to read it tonight 11:51:50 <_8david> although I'm rather partial to killall -9 sbcl 11:52:06 well the ,quit thing works 11:54:33 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:55:42 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 11:57:30 (write) splits long lists into several lines. Is there a way to make it write without extra line breaks? 11:57:31 -!- etenil [~user@82.45.133.100] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:57:32 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-202-23.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 11:57:53 None of the options seem to help 11:58:39 (write thing :pretty nil) 11:58:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:52 spiaggia` [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 11:59:27 -!- spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:41 doesn't help 12:00:00 Isn't it turned off by default? 12:00:05 naryl: wfm. lisppaste the interaction that is problematic 12:00:27 default depends on the value of *print-pretty* 12:00:29 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 12:00:43 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:00:43 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:44 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:00:51 ohwait. The list is processed by (format) before (write). 12:01:52 baley [~baley@87.229.24.201] has joined #lisp 12:02:16 if we want to highlight a function or variable name most lispers use UPPERCASE, optionally denoting functions #'WITH-A-HASHQUOTE -- but that is typically done only when there is danger of misunerstanding 12:03:06 Jabberwockey [~jens@85.22.93.138] has joined #lisp 12:03:07 not that there is really a standard. just sticking them in text in lowercase is common enough :) 12:03:21 i do believe it is time for lunch -> 12:03:26 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:32 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:06:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:06:18 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mvliqarbxlxdkmmr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:06:29 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:06:52 -!- spiaggia` [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:08 spiaggia` [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:09:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:53 -!- hdurer`` [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:15:25 hdurer`` [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has joined #lisp 12:17:46 good day everyone 12:18:17 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:16 hmm. a question. i'm going through the book "lisp - gentle introduction to symbolic computation". there, lambda expressions are quoted as #'(lambda ..). However, CLISP accepts it also without #' 12:19:39 zvrba: in most contexts, the forms are equivalent. 12:19:45 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:46 does CLISP wrongly accept unquoted lambda's, or is the book somehow too "careful"? 12:20:00 zvrba: in all cases where they are evaluated by the normal rules, that is. 12:20:14 hm. an example of when they would be different? 12:20:38 zvrba: you may put (lambda ...) as the first thing in form: ((lambda (x) (+ x 1)) 42) => 43 12:20:47 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:20:49 you can't use #'(lambda (x) ...) there 12:21:16 obviously :) any other cases? 12:21:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:21:18 zvrba: they also read as different things: #'(lambda ...) reads as (FUNCTION (LAMBDA ...)) but (LAMBDA ...) reads as (LAMBDA ...) 12:21:45 but why would anyone consistently quote lambdas that are arguments to e.g. mapcar? 12:21:54 zvrba: convention, habit 12:22:06 ok 12:22:12 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.148.252] has joined #lisp 12:22:18 some people also like functions passed as argument stand out syntactically 12:23:02 Xach: is there any relevant difference between (function (lambda ..)) and just (lambda ..) ? 12:23:13 nikodemus: thanks 12:23:15 or, when is such difference visible to code? 12:23:46 zvrba: if you are treating them only as data, they represent different list structure. 12:23:46 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 12:24:18 otherwise, (lambda ...) evaluates the same thing as (function (lambda ...)) does 12:25:10 IIRC I read that (lambda...) is a macro that expands into (function) plus something else? 12:25:12 carlocci [~nes@93.37.199.143] has joined #lisp 12:26:21 Ah yes, found it again ... "successful lisp": 12:26:27 http://psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/chapter15.html 12:26:40 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:26:50 > ANSI Common Lisp defines a LAMBDA macro that expands into (FUNCTION (LAMBDA ..., which you can use in place of #'(LAMBDA wherever it appears in this example. For backward compatibility with pre-ANSI Common Lisp implementations, you should always write #'(LAMBDA ... -- the redundant (FUNCTION ... in the expansion will do no harm. 12:27:12 Sorry for causing confusion 12:27:52 "For backward compatibility with pre-ANSI Common Lisp implementations" - that seems like not being a good reason nowadays. 12:27:52 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7387.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:28:27 zvrba: http://trittweiler.blogspot.com/2008/12/on-relationship-of-lambda-and-lambda.html 12:28:30 Xach: but how can you treat it as data? after doing (SETF X (LAMBDA (X) (+ X 3))) , I can't do anything useful with X except funcall. (e.g., (car x) fails) 12:28:50 '(LAMBDA (X) (+ X 3)) 12:29:08 stassats: ah, but I can't do funcall on *that* 12:29:14 you can 12:29:27 you need to coerce this to function first, though 12:29:31 zvrba: I prefer #'(lambda ..) stylistically. I like how #' sticks out and makes it apparant its a function object. 12:29:41 stassats: how_ 12:29:51 (funcall (coerce '(LAMBDA (X) (+ X 3)) 'function) 10) => 13 12:30:17 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:34 -!- spiaggia` [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:31:10 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:31:22 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:31:57 spiaggia` [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:32:01 how does coerce know the target object type? 12:32:18 ah, sorry 12:32:23 you specified 'function 12:34:42 flip214: how does #' prevent the said macroexpansion? 12:34:57 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:34:57 because FUNCTION is not a function 12:35:02 ah, it doesn't 12:35:03 I didn't know about the :defsystem-depends-on option in asdf 12:35:06 I don't know ... that was just a copy+paste of the URL 12:35:25 *tcr* mumbles at sbcl's error for (coerce '(lambda (x) x) '(function (t t) t)) 12:35:30 stassats: how can you in general prevent macroexpansion? 12:35:36 apparently nobody else does, either, because out of 975 .asd files I have only one has it. 12:35:40 zvrba: by not evaluating 12:35:52 blabla [~lisps@stargate.fs.uni-lj.si] has joined #lisp 12:36:21 Xach: that's a very recent addition 12:36:48 Xach: It's supposed to obliterate the need to (eval-when  (require 'cffi)) to use the cffi groveler asdf extensions 12:36:52 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:36:53 Xach: which one ? 12:37:23 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 12:37:30 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:35 fe[nl]ix: protobuf-test.asd and protobuf-example.asd (sorry, two) 12:37:58 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:08 urandom__ [~user@p548A7387.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:30 zvrba: by setting *macroexpand-hook* to an appropriate function which always return the passed form 12:41:00 possibly bound at compile time via compile-let for extra evilness 12:41:49 platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:54 what does compile-let do? 12:41:55 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has joined #lisp 12:42:17 Mowah [1000@c-d181e555.09-137-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:42:23 You're quantum of questions is exhausted. Do some reading. 12:42:48 "your" ;P 12:42:54 ITYM compiler-let 12:43:21 tcr: it's not my fault that, upon asking a simple question, you come with a bunch of new info :-) 12:43:29 thanks, anyway :) 12:44:15 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:44:15 LiamH [~healy@129-2-142-56.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:44:32 zvrba: Yeah sorry I started my sentence with an insult first :-P 12:45:44 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:57 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:48:07 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:52 *Xach* wants something like lxr for all his source so he can answer questions like "Is #'(lambda ...) preferred to (lambda ...) in practice?" 12:52:04 maybe lxr is not the best comparison. 12:54:55 stassats: i think you could write that for me without spending 200CHF 12:55:34 but it's no fun 12:55:47 The answers would be fun! 12:56:00 Like: what is the least-used CL function? 12:56:13 and most used. and a histogram. oh, man! the charts you could make! 12:57:35 Xach: you might be interested in my non-interning reader hack for SBCL, then (to load everything and intercept all macros, mwahahahaha) 13:00:10 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu328.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:04:05 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:21 i just might 13:06:17 naming question: what name should I give to a function returning getText function? any ideas? 13:06:35 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:07:30 you should avoid CamelCase 13:07:59 p_l|uni: arright, any suggestions? 13:09:15 make-get-text 13:09:24 pjb: thanks 13:09:55 If it returned the source of that function (eg. a lambda form), I'd call it generate-get-text. 13:10:28 also, does it return a function named "get-text" or does it return some sort of specialized, unnamed function/closure that returns the text out of some object? 13:10:29 pjb: it returns the function to be used to get i18n messages 13:10:52 p_l|uni: it returns a closure 13:11:01 But a specific one? 13:11:41 specific? hmm 13:12:03 Is it a general get-text or is it a function that will get some text from some specific source or in some specific way? 13:12:17 Will you have several different "get-text" functions? 13:12:21 make-get-text takes a json document and default language and returns an accessor function for them 13:12:42 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.33] has joined #lisp 13:12:42 pjb: it's a general one 13:12:53 pjb: exactly 13:12:54 Good. So make-get-text will do. 13:13:03 arright, many thanks 13:13:28 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:13:52 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:24 bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.11] has joined #lisp 13:15:27 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:16:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 13:17:04 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 13:18:23 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:19:42 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:22:15 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-142-56.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:23:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDgE9d3GXE 13:23:47 erm. 13:23:50 sorry, wrong channel 13:24:20 (and good morning) 13:24:24 we saw the link anyway 13:25:15 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:18 -!- petabit [~89-145987@adsl-99-29-98-70.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:26:52 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:55 petabit [~89-142738@adsl-99-163-106-141.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:28 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.148.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:29:11 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.148.252] has joined #lisp 13:29:45 billstclair_ [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:32:09 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-23-195.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:33:46 antifuchs: that clip is awesome :) 13:33:47 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:34:44 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-23-195.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:35:37 Koven [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:37:33 -!- beach` is now known as beach 13:38:44 oh my god, owned by a piece of flexible composite wood... 13:39:51 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:40:03 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:03 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:04 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:04 -!- Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:04 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-149.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:05 sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has joined #lisp 13:40:18 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 13:40:28 jdz: there are a few lessons to be learned from that video (: 13:40:35 How can I get the slots of a structure as a list? I only know the type. 13:40:46 no way 13:40:55 (portable) 13:40:59 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 13:41:04 one, don't give up if your first try fails. two, give up /eventually/ 13:41:24 -!- Dazhbog [~sampo@geek.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:04 stassats: sbcl only? 13:43:20 that's some serious schadenfreude appeal there 13:43:21 looks in swank-package-fu.lisp 13:43:43 wasn't it possible through MOP on SBCL? 13:44:02 flip214: have a look at: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/8e06a7470724aa38 13:44:39 flip214: also: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/f687db3424753775 and http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/34681fc951fb42b2 13:44:49 Thanks, I'll take a look! 13:44:55 flip214: http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/slime.git/blob/HEAD:/contrib/swank-package-fu.lisp#l21 13:45:12 Ok, ok, I give in! 13:45:20 ... or up, as you wish 13:46:07 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-53.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 13:48:13 stassats: Uh? 13:48:24 You can't use swank-mop for that? 13:48:28 tcr: eh? 13:49:06 no, unless you show me the way 13:49:32 fair enough I didn't read carefully 13:50:54 'morning 13:51:10 stassats: that *package* tweaking in export-structure could be replaced with with-buffer-syntax though I think 13:51:41 well perhaps rather not 13:52:14 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has joined #lisp 13:52:14 LiamH [~liam@129-2-143-38.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:54:24 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 13:54:25 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 13:54:25 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:54:25 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-38-137.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:55 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 13:58:43 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:58:48 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-143.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:59:44 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 14:00:18 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-196-3.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:02:01 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:15 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:47 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:32 -!- LiamH [~liam@129-2-143-38.wireless.umd.edu] has left #lisp 14:03:50 recommendation: cl-weblocks versus ht-ajax? 14:03:51 yates, memo from pjb: have a look at http://www.informatimago.com/articles/cl-types/ where I publish the graphs for four implementations. 14:04:09 hmm, ok 14:08:13 pjb: thank you 14:12:44 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 14:13:41 antivigilante [~antivigil@184-98-128-120.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp