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[~milan@port-92-204-46-183.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:26:50 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:32:43 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:33:52 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 07:34:33 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:12 symbole [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:37 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:05 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 08:01:09 serichsen [~user@f048235055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:01:14 Good morning! 08:03:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:03:53 -!- ryaether [~ryan@173-26-124-96.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 08:05:07 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:08:34 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:08:43 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:10:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-146.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:17:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:19:58 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:22:03 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 08:29:59 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:24 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:40:03 Hello serichsen. What's up? 08:40:43 -!- beach` is now known as beach 08:42:11 beach`: re. sicl remove, what does (let ((list (list 1 2 3))) (eq (cdr list) (remove 1 list :end 1))) return? 08:42:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:42:24 using SICL, that is? 08:43:42 T, I assume? 08:44:46 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:52:14 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-60.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:52:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:56:15 nikodemus: That should be the case, yes. At least I wrote it to do that. 08:56:58 nikodemus: Indeed it does. 08:57:26 nikodemus: And SBCL's doesn't, at least not the version I have. 08:58:49 ruepel0r [~rue@212.183.140.2] has joined #lisp 09:11:16 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1CD85.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:13:10 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 09:15:17 nikodemus: Why do you ask? 09:19:20 xan_ [~xan@121.141.77.209] has joined #lisp 09:19:55 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:04 Question to those who use emacs in terminal with urxvt: does paredit's C- work for you? 09:22:05 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932f770.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:47 Where's minion when you need it!? 09:23:10 sie: it cannot work, but you can bind it to some another key chord. 09:23:21 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:53 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:24:44 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:25:42 sie: notably, you may use function keys in the terminal, if you know what code sequence they send. You can easily learn it with C-h k. So I have in my ~/.emacs: (global-set-key "OF" (function end-of-buffer)) (global-set-key "OH" (function beginning-of-buffer)) and so on. (that's ESC O F in side the first string, and ESC O H inside the later, corresponding to HOME and END). 09:26:05 So you could for example bind slurp to F9 and barf to F12. 09:26:56 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:27:57 MarcusTullius [~user@237-210.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:28:22 talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has joined #lisp 09:29:22 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-47-197.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:31:14 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-48-184.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:34:31 pjb, I think I'll bind it, thanks. 09:34:43 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:35:49 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:39:09 beach: my brainfart, sorry. i was under the impression REMOVE was required to copy the whole list, which it isn't 09:39:38 nikodemus: notice that it's not required to return the cdr when you remove the first element either. 09:39:38 nikodemus: Right, it is not. 09:39:58 If you want to depend on either behavior you will have to provide your own implementation doing what you expect. 09:42:03 Now what would be a good strategy for remove on a vector? 09:42:06 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-246-235.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:42:13 pjb: sure, i wasn't confused about that 09:42:44 good day everyone 09:42:58 I can't see how to avoid allocating both an intermediate vector and a final one, unless returns a vector with a fill pointer, which doesn't seem reasonable. 09:43:01 hello Blkt 09:43:12 beach: allocate vector of the original size and truncate it once done. not portable, but sbcl can do it 09:43:17 hello beach 09:43:26 -!- ruepel0r [~rue@212.183.140.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:43:34 beach: you can count the elements to be removed. Thatshould be faster than allocating it twice. 09:43:49 nikodemus: Hmm, yes, I see. But how does SBCL do that in general? It returns the remaining memory to the pool? 09:44:08 pjb: That depends on the test. But perhaps for eq and equal that might be the case. 09:44:18 when the vector is transported to the next generation it will be cleaned up 09:44:20 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-201-254.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:44:30 I see. 09:44:32 beach: I don't see how it would depend on the test. 09:44:32 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-201-254.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:45:05 pjb: you would have to run the test twice wouldn't you, unless you mark with a bitmap those elements that need to be removed (or kept). 09:45:07 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:46:00 Yes. IIRC< it's allowed to call the test several times. 09:46:23 allocation is cheap. garbage is cheap. comparing and copying elements is expensive 09:46:46 I think an adaptative algorithm would be called in for. 09:46:57 If it's a big array, better allocate a bitmap. 09:47:10 If it's a small array. better allocate a temporary array (or even list). 09:47:51 There may be a medium size (perhaps relative to cache size or GC behavior) where it would be better to call test twice. 09:48:42 rbarraud [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:51:17 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-201-254.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:51:20 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-201-254.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:51:28 pjb: That would be "safe" only of you know that the est is very simple, like eq. 09:51:42 Yes. 09:51:49 Notice that most often the test is simple. 09:51:50 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:13 pjb: It doesn't matter if it is, because one can specialize for known simple tests. 09:52:19 rbarraud [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:52:36 Yes, that's what I mean, most of the time, the test is a known function from CL. 09:53:32 pjb: That's not clear to me. It depends a lot on the application. But what I meant was that one should definitely take advantage of the case when it is, without penalizing cases where it isn't. 09:54:35 pjb: Er, I should have said the combination of the test and the key function. 09:54:44 pavelludiq [~user@87.246.58.137] has joined #lisp 09:58:45 -!- johs_ is now known as johs 09:59:21 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:43 -!- pavelludiq [~user@87.246.58.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:19 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:16 navigator [~navigator@p54895DC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-66.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:10:02 -!- dostoyev1ky is now known as dostoyevsky 10:20:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:31:28 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-19-211.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:33:01 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:24 -!- hans` [~hans@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has left #lisp 10:34:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-66.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:35:02 H4ns [~user@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:23 -!- l0stman [~l0stman@freedsl-1.blueline.mg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:44:05 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:01 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:47:38 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 10:48:30 The backtrace sbcl or slime gives is pretty vague to me. :/ Is there some way to make it show it in a more noob friendly way? 10:50:46 tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:51:37 http://jsnell.iki.fi/blog/archive/2006-12-05-sbcl-xref.html is one way I'm aware of 10:51:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:51:59 erm, sorry. http://jsnell.iki.fi/blog/archive/2007-12-19-pretty-sbcl-backtraces.html 10:53:28 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:54:25 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:08 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:58:22 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 10:59:07 lichtblau, Can you compile it? I'm either doing it wrong, or ... I'm probably doing it wrong. 10:59:11 ak70 [~ak70@80.77.204.157] has joined #lisp 11:04:31 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-19-211.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:08:41 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:09:45 urandom__ [~user@p548A5FD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:14 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:30 sie: I'm not sure, but I find it really helpful to press "v" on a slime frame to jump to the source. 11:14:41 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:15:38 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:15:58 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:17:30 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:32 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:20:05 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:20:20 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:21 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-48-171-245.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:21:33 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 11:21:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-65.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:23:38 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-60.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:31 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:24:53 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:25:32 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:43 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-48-171-245.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:28 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:30:49 -!- johanbev_ [~johanbev@44.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:31:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:31:50 -!- dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:32:26 johanbev_ [~johanbev@44.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:32:29 dostoyevsky [sck@195.49.138.42] has joined #lisp 11:34:42 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:40:42 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:42:13 Xach, I get unhandled DEBUG-CONDITION: # minion: tell sie about lisppaste 11:44:46 sie: http://paste.lisp.org/new 11:45:03 I'm too lazy to paste, but alright . ;/ http://sprunge.us/eSGA 11:45:12 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:45:24 zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:45:29 I can't paste to paste.lisp.org from cli, so I'll use sprunge. 11:45:48 when you press v? ok, that's a slime-issue but expected 11:46:19 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 11:46:20 How do I fix it? 11:46:20 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:14 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Client Quit] 11:47:34 frames like that are part of internal CLOS machinery, so you don't really fix that. the slime issue is that it should give you a message "Source not available for this frame." or something instead of that error 11:47:46 what's the original error? 11:48:05 silenius [~silenus@p4FC22FB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:44 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-139-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:18 Kae [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:51:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-65.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-65.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:53:05 cd 11:53:09 ha. whoops 11:53:11 nikodemus, You mean one that caused the debugger to pop up? 11:53:47 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:53:57 yes 11:54:14 -!- Kaer [~b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:54:43 I don't know/not sure. I'm trying to find out. But the stack trace is being cryptic to me. ;-D 11:55:01 the original error message, that is 11:55:34 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:56:13 just paste the whole original debugger window. with luck we can help you read the backtrace, so that next time it makes more sense 11:56:34 http://sprunge.us/QTcN 11:57:08 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:58:14 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-254-170.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:59:22 ThomasP1 [~thomas@88-134-14-187-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:59:26 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 12:00:08 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754903.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:20 0: this is a lambda generated for a method function. whenever you see SB-PCL:.ARG0. &co you can think "CLOS internals" 12:01:03 1-3: SB-THREAD:WITH-MUTEX related 12:01:56 4: presumably from your code, a call to SETUP-HOOKS method specialized on YODH. 12:02:21 There isn't a button to show lines, right? 12:02:54 Try pressing v 12:03:38 That didn't work. :] 12:04:20 *tcr* shrugs 12:04:23 on the SETUP-HOOKS frame it probably will 12:05:09 so, something goes wrong from SETUP-HOOKS, during a WITH-MUTEX. assuming you don't have inline functions involved, the issue is either inside the SETUP-HOOKs function, or in a tail-call from there 12:05:39 something that expects 3 arguments (you can count the number of arguments in the lambda in frame 0) is being called with just 2 12:07:25 -!- mornfall_ [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 12:07:27 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 12:07:29 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 12:07:29 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 12:09:05 inside SETUP-HOOKs, do you have a WITH-MUTEX? 12:10:27 Yup. And I found it thanks. 12:11:34 Bronsa [~bronsa@host243-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:13:36 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 12:15:26 with some luck those impenetrable magic CLOS lambdas might get better names sooner or later 12:16:47 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:17:12 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:26 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:50 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:19 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 12:27:26 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:38:14 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:42 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: 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djm jrockway amaron pok 15:00:59 if so, I can use (continue) 15:00:59 it's not kosher to modify ALIST while #'sublis is running 15:00:59 but, I have an implementation where it works 15:00:59 and I'd like to make that functionality available to my users 15:00:59 is there an existing name for function? 15:01:10 for such a function, I mean 15:01:31 basically, the issue with nsublis is you can have code run for each leaf or cons 15:02:05 but you can't legally, dynamically modify what's stored in the substituted list 15:02:12 kehoea: generally, I think having a destructive :test function is not really good style 15:02:32 it probably would be easiest to write your own recursive mapping functon 15:02:39 antifuchs, well, then, assume I mean #'sublis 15:03:12 antifuchs, one can, but since it's easy for me to offer this functionality 15:03:25 I'm wondering is there an existing API for me to follow 15:03:34 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:03:43 I'm not saying you can't 15:03:54 I'm saying it makes the code really hard to understand 15:04:45 it's more important that the API be easy to understand 15:05:51 anyway. I don't see anywhere saying it's prohibited to modify alist, but i don't see anywhere in the clhs saying that sublis is prohibited from making a copy of alist before running the :test function 15:06:06 yrgd [~yrgd@c-98-235-44-106.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:26 or it might copy the contents of alist into a hash table for easier access 15:07:08 antifuchs, I know, whether modifying ALIST is useful is explicitly not defined by the standard 15:07:22 MAPPING-DESTRUCTIVE-INTERACTION:EXPLICITLY-VAGUE 15:07:38 what is the use-case for this construction? 15:07:40 that issue refers to modifications of the tree more than the alist (: 15:07:41 so it's more reasonable for me to offer the API to my users. 15:07:44 besides, the way I read the spec, sublis calls the test function more than once per key 15:09:02 kehoea: seriously, my recommendation is to forego sublis and write your own recursive function for this. it's not that hard, and it will be easier to understand what it does. 15:09:10 GAAAH 15:09:30 *I* don't want to traverse a tree in this manner 15:09:47 I have an implementation that makes traversing a tree in this manner easy and possible 15:09:51 ok, then I was completely misunderstanding what you were asking 15:09:52 sorry 15:09:59 I'd like to offer that functionality to my users 15:10:32 and if there's an existing syntax for that, I'd like to copy it 15:10:36 you had better make sure that the functionality isn't a feature-bug where it works, and restrict your users to that CL. 15:11:53 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.165.135] has joined #lisp 15:11:55 "to that CL" ? 15:12:04 oh, right, to that implementation 15:12:47 I'm writing plumbing for XEmacs, it's not typically that easy to move to a real Common Lisp 15:13:05 so that aspect isn't so much an issue 15:19:46 fjellfras [~abhijat@123.236.183.254] has joined #lisp 15:20:16 Why might my cl-irc hooks not work? There is only one hook at the moment. 15:20:33 mtphys [~metaphys@unaffiliated/metaphys] has joined #lisp 15:21:23 sie: couple things you can try... one, activate the irc message debugging stream. 15:22:06 sie: that should show you which messages are really coming in, to compare against your hooks 15:22:17 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 15:24:38 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-134-127.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:59 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A5E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:25:45 sie: do this via (setf (client-stream your-irc-connection) *debug-io*) ; or whatever stream you like 15:26:29 sie: once you're sure the messages are coming in, make sure your methods dispatch on the right things. 15:30:10 -!- mtphys [~metaphys@unaffiliated/metaphys] has left #lisp 15:30:38 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:54 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:09 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:31:28 antifuchs, I did it, but I don't see any more output. :/ 15:31:57 are you sure you are connected to the server? (-: 15:32:29 -!- johanbev_ [~johanbev@44.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:35:58 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:36:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:45:51 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:46:16 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:55 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 15:53:51 -!- sentry [~sentry@128.sub-75-199-109.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:11 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:11 21:58:11 -!- names: ccl-logbot The_Jon_Smith p_l|backup rvirding nowhere_man Lajla brandlee tankrim wbooze homie RaceCondition Edward_ eli pizzledizzle Kenjin hargettp timor Aladore logia_th benny dto daniel__ lolsuper_ legumbre astoon ace4016 Cowmoo Yuuhi bgs100 rahul b-man_ Xantoz srcerer xinming ehu Blkt leo2007 banisterfiend fusss timack ziarkaen Ragnaroek cmatei ddevaal Quadrescence humasect MetalDust hugod _s1gma rdd morphling gravicappa Xach dreish mjonsson mgr Nshag 21:58:11 -!- names: eldragon tcr jmcphers sdsds angavrilov mega1 mathrick mrSpec urandom__ dlowe jmbr fiveop H4ns`` incandenza serichsen pchrist sbahra cpc26 adeht fatblueduck xavieran ost`` brickhazel sytse pjb TomJ derrida Draggor eno Krystof cmm slyrus fualo cinch gz` pierrep MaxMuen Euthydemus gz drakko schmrkc fmu_ billstclair lusory ASau araujo deepfire lnostdal arbscht Ralith phadthai setheus Demosthenes s0ber zeroish mbohun upwardindex rotty Jasko sonnym Fare 21:58:11 -!- names: Ginei_Morioka mmullis koollman dstatyvka boyscared yan_ tomaw madnificent bzzbzz anonymouse89 stepnem ivan4th pdo frodef Fullma dmiles_afk chrnybo delYsid BrianRice trebor_dki AntiSpamMeta yahooooo smithzv quasisane sellout rread Intensity slyrus_ zc00gii froydnj stokachu` reb naiv ramus symbole holycow Kovensky guther PuffTheMagic Khisanth _3b` baley Dazhbog scode emma Dodek OliverUv m4thrick z0d pok katofiad antifuchs varjag rtoym kleppari cataska 21:58:11 -!- names: lemoinem Wombatzus ineiros gnooth stettberger Salamander qebab tic ASau``` vandemar beach CrazyEddy Anarch cpt_nemo jsnell cYmen Patzy Guest57074 rootzlevel kloeri ecraven mal__ l_a_m mon_key lisppaste Tristam pr Adrinael aoh blitz_ p_l Fade felipe ij johanbev rullie `micro bfein prip Tordek Odin- _8david franki^_ hohum joshe erk sid3k ``Erik dostoyevsky abend mornfall Bucciarati fe[nl]ix Yamazaki-kun kuwabara bougyman fmu REPLeffect bobbysmith007 21:58:11 -!- names: acknopper clop kvsari tychoish joast turbo24prg svk_ pkhuong acieroid hypno spiaggia nuba krl yacin ve minion specbot talyz antoszka mtd housel johs seejay marienz djinni` rapacity Borbus luis zbigniew dose Aisling Buganini lharc Xof chandler tvaalen Pepe_ ianmcorvidae spacebat clog lonstein qsun MikeSeth Zhivago jpanest hc_e krappie_ djm jrockway amaron nullman dcrawford starseeker Obfuscate galdor erg [df] Tasunteld gds Axioplase_ tessier hdurer`` 21:58:11 -!- names: sykopomp fda314925 foom herbieB_ PissedNumlock tokenrove _3b mulander albino cods Holcxjo vsync 21:58:44 pjb, so basically, it skips any result that evaluates to nil? 21:58:55 returns. 21:59:27 pjb, and you have to quote with mapcar? 21:59:30 THey never really told me that 21:59:34 Don't confuse the return-type parameter of map with the results of the application of the functions to the elements of the sequences. 21:59:37 clhs map 21:59:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm 22:00:00 So mapcar accepts a symbol, and looks for the function-cell of that symbol in the global environment? 22:00:18 Lajla: Usually you'd use (function f) not (quote f). But 'f is simpler to type than #'f, and it works equally well for CL functions which cannot be redefined locally. 22:00:23 Like (mapcar '- '(1 2 3 4)) >> (-1 -2 -3 -4) 22:00:25 Yes. 22:00:41 Ahh, so mapcar accepts both symbols and functions? 22:01:18 they don't have the same meaning in general. 22:01:52 Well yeah, I get that, but I'm just looking for the space of possible values it accepts without producing a runtime error 22:02:07 I takeit that (mapcar 3 '(0 1 2 3)) isn't accepted for instance 22:02:30 Actually, it's APPLY which accepts a symbol. funcall, map, mapcar, etc all reduce to APPLY. 22:02:32 clhs apply 22:02:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 22:02:43 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02:47 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:04:01 Hmm, interesting, CL and Scheme seem to be even further apart than I thought. 22:04:14 pjb, how can a function return a function in CL? 22:04:33 Just let the last expression be (lambda (args ...) exps ...) ? 22:05:05 In CLHS, check when a parameter is a 'designator' for a certain type instead of a certain type. Designators are larger types that can be surjected onto the smaller type. 22:05:09 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E2671A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:05:22 http://l1sp.org/search/designator 22:05:23 Lajla: (defun addx (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) 22:05:51 pjb, how exactly does that work with the separate namespace? 22:05:51 Lajla: (defun get-hook () (function print)) 22:05:56 I take it I have to use funcall? 22:06:13 (funcall (get-hook) "hello world") ? 22:06:15 Yes. 22:06:35 Or you can pass it to another higher order function such as mapcar. 22:06:48 Hmm, funcall is a not a function in CL? 22:06:58 Lajla: incorrect. 22:06:58 But indeed, if you need to call it, since it's returned as a value, you need to use funcall or apply (apply is the primitive). 22:07:02 Yes it is. 22:07:08 Ahh 22:07:14 apply and eval too are functions. 22:07:17 I was just confused by this 'or' 22:07:21 pjb> Or you can pass it to another higher order function such as mapcar. 22:07:28 Ohh 22:07:33 I didn't read 'another' 22:07:39 (mapcar (get-hook) '(1 2 3)) 22:07:45 So it's not "hard" to use. 22:08:15 Hmm, and binding it to local variables? 22:08:38 Yes. (let ((h (get-hook))) ... (funcall h val) (funcall h val)). 22:08:58 If you do that a lot: (let ((h (get-hook))) (flet ((h x) (funcall h x)) (h val1) (h val2))). 22:09:10 If you do that a lot, there's a macro to be able to write lisp-1 in CL. 22:10:12 Hmm, so the function is now in the value cell of h there or something? 22:10:19 Yes. 22:10:25 You can even do that? 22:10:26 Well, no. 22:10:41 Because here we ahve a lexical binding, so it's stored in a variable, bu not in a value cell of a symbol. 22:10:50 Hmm 22:10:59 there is a difference between global level symbols and local variables thus? 22:11:33 It would be stored in the value cell of a symbol in the case of a special variable. (defparameter *h* (get-hook)) (funcall *h* 1) <=> (funcall (symbol-value '*h*) 1) 22:11:57 It's not the globalness/localness that distinguish them, but the specialness (dynamicness) vs. lexicalness. 22:12:09 Ahh 22:12:22 defvar and defparamete declare the defined name as special. 22:12:28 This is more complicated than how it works in scheme I suppose. 22:12:30 Yeah, I know 22:13:22 You could also have a local special variable: (defun g (x) (declare (special *g*)) (funcall *g* x)) (let ((*g* (get-hook))) (declare (special *g*)) (g)) 22:14:26 ottergwc [~brianj@wsip-24-234-246-31.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:53 Hmm, is special a primitive, or a macro? 22:15:06 declare is a special operator. special is a declaration. 22:15:11 clhs declare 22:15:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_declar.htm 22:15:13 clhs special 22:15:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_specia.htm