2018-01-14T00:00:02Z kozy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T00:00:49Z kozy joined #lisp 2018-01-14T00:01:22Z marusich joined #lisp 2018-01-14T00:02:29Z fiddlerwoaroof_: jmercouris: you might consider making one object for all your parameters and storing it in *config* 2018-01-14T00:02:35Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T00:03:13Z fiddlerwoaroof_: or using something like https://github.com/shinmera/ubiquitous 2018-01-14T00:03:28Z fiddlerwoaroof_: It's nice to have all the configuration in one place for debugging purposes 2018-01-14T00:03:59Z jmercouris: fiddlerwoaroof_: That might be useful for a sort of config-tool that I'll develop later for people who don't wish to write lisp, thank you for the link! 2018-01-14T00:04:19Z jmercouris: I can definitely see the value add, but I don't want to stray too much from the emacs way 2018-01-14T00:07:35Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T00:10:41Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T00:13:55Z mishoo_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T00:14:07Z smurfrobot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T00:15:33Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T00:19:29Z smurfrobot quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T00:27:26Z Folkol_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T00:28:30Z Folkol joined #lisp 2018-01-14T00:29:58Z markong quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T00:31:40Z Folkol quit (Client Quit) 2018-01-14T00:36:26Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T00:38:34Z random-nick quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T00:41:52Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T00:44:02Z turkja joined #lisp 2018-01-14T00:46:57Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T00:50:01Z dieggsy quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.50)) 2018-01-14T00:51:49Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T00:56:22Z eivarv joined #lisp 2018-01-14T00:57:03Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:02:01Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T01:04:07Z bms_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:07:18Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:09:34Z red-dot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:09:43Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T01:09:49Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T01:10:14Z pilfink quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)) 2018-01-14T01:10:29Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:11:23Z malice joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:11:35Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T01:12:25Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:12:47Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T01:13:18Z pierpa joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:13:55Z shrdlu68 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T01:14:01Z Tobbi quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T01:14:06Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T01:14:39Z Tobbi joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:14:47Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:14:54Z smurfrobot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:15:41Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T01:16:27Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:16:30Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T01:16:31Z asarch joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:17:08Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T01:17:20Z bms_: Hello. 2018-01-14T01:17:57Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:19:56Z smurfrobot quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T01:20:31Z jameser joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:20:44Z eazar001 joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:23:54Z jmercouris: bms_: hello 2018-01-14T01:23:59Z epony quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2018-01-14T01:24:21Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T01:24:28Z epony joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:24:46Z bugrum joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:24:59Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:25:10Z bms_: How are you? 2018-01-14T01:26:42Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T01:27:20Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:27:21Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:28:02Z varjag joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:29:10Z jmercouris: I'm doing well, how about yourself? 2018-01-14T01:29:20Z jmercouris: maybe we should move this lispcafe if you wish to have a conversation 2018-01-14T01:29:47Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T01:32:03Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T01:32:56Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T01:36:30Z holycow joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:36:54Z Oladon joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:37:47Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:38:23Z bms_: Sure. 2018-01-14T01:39:42Z sz0_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:39:46Z sz0_ is now known as sz0 2018-01-14T01:42:30Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T01:46:54Z eivarv quit (Quit: Sleep) 2018-01-14T01:47:52Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T01:49:48Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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(Well, sometimes it didn't pre-date those ideas and RMS was just too stubborn to implement them in Emacs.) 2018-01-14T02:23:05Z pagnol quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T02:23:16Z aeth: I mean, ideas relating to configuring large applications, which for the most part didn't really exist until the late 80s and 90s 2018-01-14T02:24:08Z beach quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2018-01-14T02:24:17Z aeth: I don't think emacs's hook system is the best way to do things 2018-01-14T02:24:45Z jmercouris: aeth: Emacs leaves a lot to be desired 2018-01-14T02:24:54Z jmercouris: I'm not as stubborn as RMS, I'm willing to let the program evolve 2018-01-14T02:28:44Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T02:29:00Z ebzzry joined #lisp 2018-01-14T02:30:22Z damke_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T02:31:11Z Tobbi quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T02:31:33Z damke quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2018-01-14T02:34:14Z Tobbi joined #lisp 2018-01-14T02:41:11Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T02:47:13Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T02:49:02Z JonSmith quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T02:51:53Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T02:54:08Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T02:55:49Z d4ryus2 joined #lisp 2018-01-14T02:57:19Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T02:58:55Z JonSmith joined #lisp 2018-01-14T02:59:05Z d4ryus1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:00:23Z damke joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:02:38Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:02:45Z damke_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:04:54Z smasta joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:05:34Z fouric joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:07:25Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:08:29Z dieggsy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:12:21Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:15:47Z Cthulhux quit (Changing host) 2018-01-14T03:15:48Z Cthulhux joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:16:21Z smurfrobot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:16:32Z safe quit (Quit: Leaving) 2018-01-14T03:17:27Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:17:37Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:17:54Z marusich joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:21:40Z smurfrobot quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:21:41Z mariari quit (Quit: Bye) 2018-01-14T03:21:59Z Tobbi quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 2018-01-14T03:24:34Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T03:25:19Z asarch: (setf name "asarch") in SBCL: https://pastebin.com/Q5fNFaxX 2018-01-14T03:25:23Z manualcrank left #lisp 2018-01-14T03:25:34Z asarch: However in CLISP it works fine, why? 2018-01-14T03:26:38Z loli: it is still defined in SBCL 2018-01-14T03:26:51Z loli: it just gives you a warning, as you should use defvar or defparameter first 2018-01-14T03:27:38Z asarch: Thank you 2018-01-14T03:27:41Z mfiano: amoung a few others, like LET 2018-01-14T03:27:47Z asarch: Thank you very much :-) 2018-01-14T03:27:48Z Bike: asarch: the compiler hasn't been told the variable is special, so accessing its value is undefined behavior that can differ between implementations. 2018-01-14T03:28:18Z Bike: clhs examples sometimes act as if it is defined behavior and that it will work like clisp. but examples aren't normative. it's a bit confusing, unfortunately. 2018-01-14T03:28:34Z varjag joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:28:38Z asarch: Why LET has a body form? 2018-01-14T03:28:57Z asarch: What if I don't what to "use" that body form? Can I "omit" it? 2018-01-14T03:29:01Z loli: as let variables are local 2018-01-14T03:29:06Z Bike: you can, but then the let is useless. 2018-01-14T03:29:19Z Bike: let doesn't set variables, it binds them. these bindings are only in effect within the body forms. 2018-01-14T03:29:27Z loli: (let ((var1 name1)) scope-where-var1-is-defined) 2018-01-14T03:29:36Z Cthulhux quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:29:53Z loli: name1 -> value1* 2018-01-14T03:30:08Z asarch: Because even (let (name "asarch")): https://pastebin.com/09CH2S2X 2018-01-14T03:30:22Z asarch: Oh, I see 2018-01-14T03:30:25Z Bike: you mean (let ((name "asarch"))) 2018-01-14T03:30:38Z loli: you are letting a list of variables, not just a single one 2018-01-14T03:30:38Z Bike: this is valid but is useless, and sbcl might warn you about its uselessness. 2018-01-14T03:30:52Z asarch: Does it always use the double parentheses? 2018-01-14T03:30:56Z Cthulhux joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:30:57Z loli: yes 2018-01-14T03:31:09Z Bike: it's because you can bind more than one thing, like (let ((a 4) (b 7)) ...), as loli said. 2018-01-14T03:31:23Z loli: you can make a macro to abstract it away, as people sometimes define let1 2018-01-14T03:31:28Z Bike: the syntax is (let list-of-bindings ...body...) 2018-01-14T03:32:29Z asarch: So, a "binding" is what a variable would be in other languages, right? And a "binding form" would be the assignation statement, right? 2018-01-14T03:33:19Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:33:20Z loli: well you are letting a variable, it just has limited scope, much like how {int i; return i + 1;} is only in scope within the {}'s 2018-01-14T03:34:15Z Bike: it's like if you were to say "let x be the number of cats in this house. then the number of cats in the other house is twice x." x is bound to some number, but only temporarily, and doesn't mean anything in particular outside of the scope of the sentence. 2018-01-14T03:34:21Z asarch: "The skeleton of a LET form looks like this: (let (variable*) body-form*)" <- From PCl, chapter six 2018-01-14T03:34:40Z Bike: well, that's a bit confusing i'd say 2018-01-14T03:34:55Z Bike: when you write (let ((x 4)) ...), the the variable X is bound to the value 4 2018-01-14T03:34:58Z Bike: is how i would phrase it 2018-01-14T03:35:47Z asarch: In the jargon of Lisp, "x would be a binding with the value of 4", right? 2018-01-14T03:35:57Z Bike: i don't think so. 2018-01-14T03:36:00Z Bike: x is a variable. 2018-01-14T03:36:27Z loli: you have bound x (the variable) to the value 4 2018-01-14T03:37:02Z wigust joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:37:49Z asarch: "A binding is the runtime manifestation of a variable." 2018-01-14T03:37:56Z Bike: Also PCL? 2018-01-14T03:38:02Z asarch: Yeah 2018-01-14T03:38:08Z asarch: The only book I have 2018-01-14T03:38:10Z Bike: I might also say something like, "there is a binding of X to 4" 2018-01-14T03:38:23Z asarch: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html 2018-01-14T03:38:44Z asarch grabs his pen... 2018-01-14T03:39:02Z Bike: these are terms that are originally derived from the particularly boring kind of philosophy that eventually became programming 2018-01-14T03:39:21Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:39:38Z Bike: don't overthink too much, they're like, nearly english a normal person could understand 2018-01-14T03:40:14Z bms_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T03:41:28Z marusich joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:42:50Z nullniverse joined #lisp 2018-01-14T03:44:53Z QualityAddict quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:45:13Z asarch: ? 2018-01-14T03:45:22Z asarch: Ok 2018-01-14T03:48:59Z asarch: So, if LET was C, then it would be something like: {int foo = 10; funtion() { /* You can now use 'foo' as you wish */}}; /* Here, 'foo' doesn't exist */ 2018-01-14T03:49:02Z asarch: Right? 2018-01-14T03:49:17Z Bike: yes. it is very similar to bracket scoping in C. 2018-01-14T03:49:24Z asarch: Yes! 2018-01-14T03:49:38Z Bike: what C calls "automatic variables", if you know that terminology. 2018-01-14T03:50:16Z Bike: it gets more complicated when you bring closures and such into the equation, though. 2018-01-14T03:50:25Z Bike: i suppose you will get to that later. 2018-01-14T03:50:30Z asarch: Ok 2018-01-14T03:51:24Z loli: closures with side effects are fun, too bad I don't play around with them too much 2018-01-14T03:51:42Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T03:52:12Z Bike: the major difference with C is that C requires the programmer to understand when things are allocated. space for an automatic variable, like foo in your example, is allocated at entry to the block (iirc) and deallocated on exit. lisp is not this strict. 2018-01-14T03:55:52Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:00:36Z jameser joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:03:13Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2018-01-14T04:03:25Z asarch: Thank you guys 2018-01-14T04:03:30Z asarch: Thank you very much :-) 2018-01-14T04:04:31Z marusich joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:04:44Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T04:05:07Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:06:43Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:11:13Z wxie joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:12:18Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T04:14:41Z QualityAddict joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:17:43Z smurfrobot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:19:22Z vancan1ty joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:22:20Z smurfrobot quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T04:26:35Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T04:28:10Z marusich joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:29:27Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2018-01-14T04:32:53Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:37:16Z red-dot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T04:39:43Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:40:48Z red-dot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T04:41:03Z smasta quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T04:41:28Z Oladon quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2018-01-14T04:56:45Z jameser quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T04:57:35Z jameser joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:02:50Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T05:04:50Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:06:37Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T05:08:14Z Cthulhux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T05:09:10Z Cthulhux joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:10:42Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:11:38Z brendyn joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:13:47Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2018-01-14T05:23:21Z beach` is now known as beach 2018-01-14T05:23:38Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2018-01-14T05:25:25Z smasta joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:25:56Z patche joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:25:57Z patche is now known as _sebbot 2018-01-14T05:27:47Z orivej_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T05:29:01Z varjag joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:30:11Z smasta quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T05:30:38Z holycow: ornin 2018-01-14T05:30:43Z holycow: +m even 2018-01-14T05:33:26Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T05:34:33Z orivej joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:38:02Z ozzloy joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:38:02Z ozzloy quit (Changing host) 2018-01-14T05:38:02Z ozzloy joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:41:15Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2018-01-14T05:44:41Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T05:46:34Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:48:36Z _sebbot quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2018-01-14T05:52:21Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving) 2018-01-14T05:55:24Z jameser quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T05:55:29Z vancan1ty quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T05:56:06Z jameser joined #lisp 2018-01-14T05:57:19Z jameser quit (Client Quit) 2018-01-14T06:00:55Z damke_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:02:45Z damke quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2018-01-14T06:06:48Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)) 2018-01-14T06:08:18Z Kevslinger quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2018-01-14T06:09:09Z jmercouris joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:09:16Z jmercouris: rme: Is it possible to generate new headers without ffigen? 2018-01-14T06:13:23Z rme: I suppose you could write an s-expression-based .ffi file by hand and process it with parse-ffi. But I don't know if that's really practical. 2018-01-14T06:13:37Z rme: There's actually some work going on in https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues/13 about updated ffigen, btw. 2018-01-14T06:14:30Z jmercouris: rme: Oh nice 2018-01-14T06:14:35Z jmercouris: so maybe we can use the new cocoa api 2018-01-14T06:15:02Z jmercouris: man this eschaton guy is always making ridiculous suggestions 2018-01-14T06:15:40Z jmercouris: the other day he was suggesting to me that I simply implement an entire web engine in common lisp, like it was some trivial task 2018-01-14T06:16:57Z jmercouris: rme: thanks for the link, I'll see if I can contribute anything, probably not since this is not my area of expertise, but I'll try 2018-01-14T06:18:55Z rme: When things are in the interface db, you can sometimes use objc-message-send by hand. For example, (objc:objc-message-send data #/base64Encoding) 2018-01-14T06:19:00Z smurfrobot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:19:17Z smasta joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:19:22Z rme: (where data is an NSData object) 2018-01-14T06:19:25Z jmercouris: rme: YOu said you have an ffigen binary that works 2018-01-14T06:19:31Z jmercouris: Why don't you just regenerate the headers? 2018-01-14T06:19:33Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:19:35Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T06:19:49Z rme: Uh, that's a very good question. 2018-01-14T06:20:29Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T06:20:40Z jmercouris: I did try the objc-message-send approach, maybe at the time my syntax was wrong, or something, I could try it again 2018-01-14T06:20:52Z jmercouris: I don't believe the API i'm looking for is within the interface db 2018-01-14T06:21:01Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:21:37Z makomo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T06:23:20Z rme: I just made a note to try to build new headers. Probably I won't do it until Monday. You want updated webkit headers in particular, or all of Cocoa? 2018-01-14T06:24:08Z smasta quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T06:24:09Z smurfrobot quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T06:24:10Z jmercouris: rme: I'm trying to just use wkwebview 2018-01-14T06:24:19Z jmercouris: which is the new interface to webkit, or rather the new webkit even 2018-01-14T06:24:55Z jmercouris: rme: No rush, feel better! 2018-01-14T06:25:11Z rme: OK WKWebView (in the WebKit framework), got it. 2018-01-14T06:26:33Z rme: maybe we'll get lucky and my previously-built ffigen will do the job 2018-01-14T06:26:50Z jmercouris: *fingers crossed* 2018-01-14T06:27:13Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:27:44Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:38:14Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T06:39:23Z Bike quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2018-01-14T06:39:35Z rippa joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:41:23Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T06:50:44Z jameser joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:51:25Z JonSmith quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T06:55:18Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T06:56:25Z orivej joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:57:12Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:57:14Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:57:14Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host) 2018-01-14T06:57:14Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2018-01-14T06:57:20Z vap1 joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:00:45Z jameser quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T07:01:47Z jameser joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:03:27Z BitPuffin quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T07:03:49Z vaporatorius quit (Quit: Leaving) 2018-01-14T07:06:46Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1) 2018-01-14T07:09:24Z nydel joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:10:58Z red-dot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:13:29Z smasta joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:16:28Z jameser quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T07:16:58Z jameser joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:17:50Z smasta quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T07:19:44Z smurfrobot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:20:11Z jameser quit (Client Quit) 2018-01-14T07:24:35Z smurfrobot quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T07:29:30Z varjag joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:30:56Z makomo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:34:20Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T07:36:01Z aindilis quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T07:36:27Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:37:12Z aindilis` joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:44:12Z phoe: (defun foo (bar) (setf bar (frob bar))) 2018-01-14T07:44:17Z phoe: Is this defined behavior? 2018-01-14T07:46:37Z orivej quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T07:47:03Z beach: Sure. 2018-01-14T07:47:13Z beach: BAR is just like any local lexical variable. 2018-01-14T07:47:44Z beach: It is not a great idea though, because when there is a problem and you look at the backtrace, you no longer see the original argument, only the modified one. 2018-01-14T07:48:39Z beach: So it's much better to do (defun foo (bar) (let ((baz (frob bar))) ...)) 2018-01-14T07:49:00Z beach: Oh, maybe you argument in the caller will change? It won't. 2018-01-14T07:50:54Z phoe: No no, I was just making sure that doing such is 100% correct. 2018-01-14T07:50:57Z phoe: Thanks. 2018-01-14T07:55:05Z wxie joined #lisp 2018-01-14T07:55:36Z malice joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:01:36Z _mjl joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:01:45Z orivej joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:02:49Z jameser joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:04:53Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2018-01-14T08:08:34Z safe joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:09:13Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:09:28Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2018-01-14T08:15:58Z mishoo_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:16:47Z turkja quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T08:20:29Z smurfrobot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:25:35Z smurfrobot quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T08:34:24Z turkja joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:41:17Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T08:42:48Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T08:42:57Z Murii joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:45:09Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T08:46:57Z flip214: phoe: you can also do (defun foo (bar) (let ((bar (frob bar))) ...)) 2018-01-14T08:47:04Z flip214: ie. create a new binding. 2018-01-14T08:47:27Z flip214: you should then see the new value as local variable, and the original function argument in the backtrace. 2018-01-14T08:49:08Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2018-01-14T08:50:01Z phoe: flip214: correct, thanks. 2018-01-14T08:53:39Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)) 2018-01-14T08:56:49Z red-dot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T09:01:33Z damke joined #lisp 2018-01-14T09:01:44Z flip214: what's the best way to get to Marbella from Malaga? Using a train? 2018-01-14T09:02:44Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T09:04:33Z damke_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2018-01-14T09:09:37Z shka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T09:11:50Z phoe: Now I need to get to Malaga at all... Gah, this is going to be a trip. 2018-01-14T09:17:59Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T09:21:02Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T09:21:33Z smurfrobot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T09:25:15Z nowhere_man joined #lisp 2018-01-14T09:26:47Z smurfrobot quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T09:28:03Z varjag joined #lisp 2018-01-14T09:29:05Z Xof quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T09:32:50Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T09:33:15Z safe quit (Quit: Leaving) 2018-01-14T09:35:22Z marusich quit (Quit: Leaving) 2018-01-14T09:37:57Z milanj joined #lisp 2018-01-14T09:40:48Z beach: flip214: Bus I hear. 2018-01-14T09:41:43Z beach: phoe: We plan to stay in Madrid or some other intermediate place for a night or two, just to break up the trip. 2018-01-14T09:42:25Z phoe: beach: hm. I see. 2018-01-14T09:44:05Z dddddd joined #lisp 2018-01-14T09:47:36Z smurfrobot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T09:48:43Z Shinmera: Apparently it's a 1 hour bus trip. 2018-01-14T09:49:29Z Shinmera: And costs around 5€ 2018-01-14T09:49:45Z Shinmera: So, really, no big deal. Except when your flight back is super early, I guess. 2018-01-14T09:49:48Z Shinmera: While taking a bus is slower than the train, it is significantly cheaper and can take as little as 45 minutes to arrive in Marbella. All Malaga to Marbella buses are run by Avanza. All buses are direct, depart from Malaga Estación de Autobuses bus station and arrive at Marbella Estación De Autobuses. 2018-01-14T09:49:51Z Shinmera: Whoops 2018-01-14T09:49:56Z Shinmera: Accidental copy paste 2018-01-14T09:50:26Z phoe: I have no direct flights to Malaga that suit ELS times. 2018-01-14T09:52:40Z Shinmera: Uugh why would any website write things in AM/PM. I don't know if "12:55PM" is "0:55" or actually "12:55" 2018-01-14T09:53:48Z phoe: 12 PM - 1 PM - 2 PM - ... - 11 PM - 12 AM - 1 AM - ... 2018-01-14T09:53:52Z phoe: That's how I remember it. 2018-01-14T09:54:01Z Shinmera: phoe: The thing is there's two conventions 2018-01-14T09:54:05Z Shinmera: You can't possibly know. 2018-01-14T09:54:17Z phoe: Shinmera: wtf 2018-01-14T09:54:18Z phoe: Really? 2018-01-14T09:54:23Z phoe: I only know the above one 2018-01-14T09:54:29Z beach: 12:55pm is in the afternoon. 2018-01-14T09:54:50Z beach: Only 12:00 is ambiguous if you don't use noon/midnight. 2018-01-14T09:56:04Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T09:58:36Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2018-01-14T09:58:41Z wxie quit (Quit: Bye.) 2018-01-14T09:58:41Z Shinmera: Looks like the cheapest flight I can get is like 220Chf. Cursory look at hotels nearby would clock in at around 150Chf. Definitely isn't going to be as cheap as it was in Krakow. 2018-01-14T09:58:44Z beach: Actually, we might take a flight from Bordeaux to Malaga (change in Madrid) and stay in Malaga for a night or two. 2018-01-14T10:00:22Z dwts quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T10:00:23Z bend3r quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T10:00:23Z Tordek quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T10:02:36Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Ex Chat) 2018-01-14T10:07:40Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:09:45Z phoe: Definitely, Krakow needs to see more ELS. 2018-01-14T10:09:53Z phoe: (Disclaimer: I live in Krakow. :) 2018-01-14T10:10:25Z beach: Careful, someone might take you up on that, and you'll find yourself being the local organizer. 2018-01-14T10:11:31Z random-nick joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:11:45Z phoe: beach: I think I can manage. I know enough people on the Jagiellonian University to do most of the heavy lifting for me. 2018-01-14T10:11:59Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:12:11Z beach: Fine then. I certainly wouldn't mind going to Krakow again for ELS. 2018-01-14T10:12:14Z phoe: (Note: JU is a different school than AGH that hosted ELS 2016.) 2018-01-14T10:12:19Z orivej quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2018-01-14T10:12:38Z beach: Closer to the center, right? 2018-01-14T10:12:46Z Shinmera: I'd still like an ELS in Zürich sometime, but that's a long time off. 2018-01-14T10:13:25Z orivej joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:13:25Z phoe: Depends. JU is really all around Cracow. Has four different campuses and multiple buildings that are placed elsewhere. 2018-01-14T10:13:33Z jackdaniel: ` "X86-64" cannot be printed readably.` – does it ring a bell to somebody? this is docker image in travis CI with somewhate old SBCL (nothing I can do about it) – here is a full log: https://api.travis-ci.org/v3/job/328525197/log.txt 2018-01-14T10:13:45Z jackdaniel: search engine scan didn't show up with anything related to it 2018-01-14T10:13:49Z beach: Shinmera: It's a very expensive place. You might need some subsidies to keep the fee low. 2018-01-14T10:13:52Z jackdaniel: (sbcl 1.3.1 *) 2018-01-14T10:14:23Z Shinmera: beach: Well yeah, asking Google or ETH would've been the thing to do. I just don't think I have the time and connections yet to do so 2018-01-14T10:14:41Z beach: Shinmera: You will over time. 2018-01-14T10:14:56Z Shinmera: Hence why I said it's a long time off :) 2018-01-14T10:15:06Z beach: Sure, yes. 2018-01-14T10:16:33Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T10:18:17Z puchacz joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:18:31Z puchacz quit (Client Quit) 2018-01-14T10:20:32Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T10:21:06Z random-nickname joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:21:29Z random-nick is now known as Guest9179 2018-01-14T10:21:29Z Guest9179 quit (Killed (sinisalo.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))) 2018-01-14T10:21:29Z random-nickname is now known as random-nick 2018-01-14T10:22:22Z pjb joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:24:06Z shifty joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:24:28Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2018-01-14T10:28:16Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T10:32:16Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:37:11Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T10:42:42Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:44:59Z sebastien_ quit (Quit: leaving) 2018-01-14T10:48:02Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T10:48:38Z sebastien_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:48:47Z eivarv joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:51:22Z nullniverse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2018-01-14T10:57:50Z visof joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:57:50Z visof quit (Changing host) 2018-01-14T10:57:50Z visof joined #lisp 2018-01-14T10:58:15Z varjag joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:00:32Z damke_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:02:43Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:02:45Z damke quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2018-01-14T11:05:21Z d4ryus2 is now known as d4ryus 2018-01-14T11:08:11Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T11:14:18Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:14:25Z Baggers joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:17:57Z nirved joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:18:30Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:23:00Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:26:06Z Ven`` joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:26:21Z KZiemian joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:27:35Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T11:30:56Z Ven`` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T11:32:32Z jameser joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:33:29Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:38:08Z Arcaelyx joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:38:23Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T11:39:54Z Tobbi joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:40:38Z visof quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T11:41:20Z Ven`` joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:41:45Z visof joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:43:33Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:44:54Z Ven` joined #lisp 2018-01-14T11:45:27Z Ven`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2018-01-14T11:48:17Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T11:49:11Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 2018-01-14T16:52:41Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T16:53:20Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T16:55:32Z zotan quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb1 - http://znc.in) 2018-01-14T16:57:19Z zotan joined #lisp 2018-01-14T16:59:34Z Rawriful joined #lisp 2018-01-14T17:02:26Z aindilis` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T17:08:14Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving) 2018-01-14T17:08:22Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T17:11:33Z pagnol: I need something like an entity store and am evaluating different approaches 2018-01-14T17:12:16Z sz0 joined #lisp 2018-01-14T17:12:42Z Shinmera: What do you understand by an entity store? 2018-01-14T17:13:04Z Shinmera: Or in other words: what do you want to do? 2018-01-14T17:13:17Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T17:13:41Z pagnol: I have entities and every entity has key-value pairs and I want to store them persistently on disk 2018-01-14T17:14:13Z dieggsy joined #lisp 2018-01-14T17:14:15Z nowhereman_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2018-01-14T17:14:25Z Shinmera: Can you store it all in memory? What kind of values are we talking about? 2018-01-14T17:14:38Z pagnol: in my case there are entity types, too, an entity type says which key-value pairs an entity must have and of which type the values must have 2018-01-14T17:14:57Z nowhereman_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T17:14:58Z pagnol: yes, it's not going to be very big 2018-01-14T17:15:34Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T17:16:07Z pagnol: the values are going to be strings, integers, and references to other entities 2018-01-14T17:16:16Z pagnol: bools 2018-01-14T17:16:29Z Shinmera: Ah, so you have cross-references, okey. 2018-01-14T17:16:56Z Shinmera: conspack might be an option. 2018-01-14T17:17:50Z pagnol: do you mean this https://github.com/conspack ? 2018-01-14T17:18:19Z pagnol: this looks like a serialization library... maybe it's not what you mean 2018-01-14T17:18:47Z Shinmera: It is 2018-01-14T17:18:52Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T17:20:49Z pagnol: I fail to see right away how I could use 2018-01-14T17:20:52Z pagnol: this 2018-01-14T17:21:36Z tazjin: pagnol: maybe you want something like cl-prevalence? 2018-01-14T17:22:09Z Shinmera: pagnol: As I understand it from your explanation you have some kind of object that acts as an entity and you'd like to persist them to disk, yeah? 2018-01-14T17:22:20Z pagnol: that's right 2018-01-14T17:22:21Z Shinmera: So that's what conspack does. Packs stuff to disk. 2018-01-14T17:23:44Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T17:25:12Z Shinmera: If you need to have it automatically persist to disk when a change in any of the values occurs then things get more complicated of course. 2018-01-14T17:26:57Z pagnol: I have an existing program that I want to rewrite and which is relying on an rdbms with a messy eav-like layout, and I was looking at the problem from that angle 2018-01-14T17:28:52Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T17:29:02Z Shinmera: Okey. Well, there's multiple libraries for RDBMs interaction or RDBMs-like things. If you want something more lispy, perhaps have a look at Rucksack. https://github.com/arieltan/rucksack/blob/master/doc/rucksack-tutorial.lisp 2018-01-14T17:29:03Z wigust quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T17:29:25Z pagnol: I don't necessarily need an rdbms but I do need the ACID properties 2018-01-14T17:30:40Z pagnol: I was hoping to find something that gives me ACID and also lets me enforce the schema without having to write a lot of code myself, especially the validity of entity references 2018-01-14T17:32:05Z pagnol: btw I will be using this only from lisp, so the potential lack of implementations in other languages is not an issue 2018-01-14T17:32:28Z pagnol: tazjin, cl-prevalence looks interesting 2018-01-14T17:32:41Z pagnol: tazjin, are you using it yourself? 2018-01-14T17:33:03Z tazjin: pagnol: I'm only using it for a little toy project, for "real" things I use postgres, but cl-prevalence works well 2018-01-14T17:33:14Z tazjin: I wouldn't say it's properly ACID though 2018-01-14T17:33:27Z pagnol: tazjin, may I ask how you're using it? 2018-01-14T17:33:33Z tazjin: pagnol: https://github.com/tazjin/gemma 2018-01-14T17:33:41Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T17:33:56Z tazjin: pagnol: search for the calls to cl-prevalence:* stuff in gemma.lisp 2018-01-14T17:33:58Z tazjin: it's very straightforward 2018-01-14T17:35:12Z mhd joined #lisp 2018-01-14T17:36:35Z pagnol: tazjin, lovely project ;-) 2018-01-14T17:36:49Z red-dot quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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I wish you luck 2018-01-14T18:05:05Z tazjin: hehe 2018-01-14T18:05:18Z tazjin: we have a nice makerspace here in Oslo that I'm going to be consulting to get some help :P 2018-01-14T18:05:20Z tazjin: and thanks! 2018-01-14T18:05:41Z pagnol: what are you using as a platform? 2018-01-14T18:05:46Z pagnol: if any 2018-01-14T18:05:50Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T18:06:47Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T18:07:04Z tazjin: you mean hardware-wise? I don't really know yet, I've only done some sketching of how I want things to be. 2018-01-14T18:07:28Z tazjin: I have an Arduino starter kit somewhere that I never got around to using for anything so that's probably a good entrypoint 2018-01-14T18:07:57Z pagnol: Shinmera, thanks for suggesting rucksack earlier, I'm going to play around with it a little 2018-01-14T18:08:35Z pagnol: building a project on it seems like a somewhat risky undertaking though, given that it hasn't been maintained in the past 7 years 2018-01-14T18:11:04Z bgardner joined #lisp 2018-01-14T18:14:55Z Shinmera: No activity can also mean that it just works 2018-01-14T18:15:39Z loli quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2018-01-14T18:16:02Z chens``` joined #lisp 2018-01-14T18:18:32Z phoe: if a program has no users, does it contain bugs? #lispzen 2018-01-14T18:18:47Z ebzzry: How do I read specific number of lines from a file stream? 2018-01-14T18:19:06Z jackdaniel: (dotimes (v 4) (read-line *file-stream*)) 2018-01-14T18:19:35Z chens`` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T18:19:47Z bgardner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T18:20:43Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T18:21:18Z phoe: (loop repeat 4 collect (read-line stream)) 2018-01-14T18:21:21Z nullman joined #lisp 2018-01-14T18:21:37Z phoe: that is, if we want to collect the results - DOTIMES will discard the result. 2018-01-14T18:21:50Z ebzzry: jackdaniel: thanks 2018-01-14T18:22:06Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T18:22:19Z loli joined #lisp 2018-01-14T18:22:55Z jackdaniel: I'm a big fan of `collecting' macro from cmu utilities, it unties collection from loop construct and is very handy 2018-01-14T18:24:07Z phoe: jackdaniel: I see. This can be used instead of loop's COLLECT. 2018-01-14T18:26:31Z bms_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T18:27:31Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T18:28:06Z Shinmera: Here's another version :^) (prog((i n))x(and(< 0 i)(decf i)(read-line s NIL)(go x))) 2018-01-14T18:28:11Z nullman joined #lisp 2018-01-14T18:29:14Z Shinmera: Actually this is even better: (prog((i 3))i(and(< 0 i)(decf i)(read-line s NIL)(go i))) 2018-01-14T18:30:06Z Shinmera: well, change the 3 to an n, but you get the point. (the point is you shouldn't use this) 2018-01-14T18:31:34Z Poeticruel is now known as Poeticure 2018-01-14T18:33:58Z phoe: >(the point is you shouldn't use this) 2018-01-14T18:34:39Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2018-01-14T18:34:48Z Shinmera: The hidden point is that I like to write intentionally obtuse answers to simple questions. 2018-01-14T18:35:05Z smasta quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T18:39:00Z _death: (define-symbol-macro _ (progn (format t "Enter a specific number: ") (force-output) (read))) ;; you know the rest 2018-01-14T18:39:33Z phoe: _ 2018-01-14T18:39:40Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T18:47:28Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T18:51:46Z pagnol: is there a tutorial anywhere that explains how mop metaclasses are used? 2018-01-14T18:52:34Z pagnol: alternatively some sample code would do as well 2018-01-14T18:52:51Z EvW joined #lisp 2018-01-14T18:53:05Z Bike: "how they're used" covers a lot of things. is there something in particular that you want to do? 2018-01-14T18:53:59Z _death: you can check out http://infolab.stanford.edu/~paepcke/shared-documents/bibliography.html search "metaobject" (there is more than one paper) 2018-01-14T18:54:34Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2018-01-14T18:55:31Z logicmoo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T18:56:13Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T18:56:41Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T18:57:30Z pagnol: I was wondering if/how I could use mop for my current project in which I load a schema definition on startup, which is then used to check if certain objects that are created are conformant 2018-01-14T18:58:09Z pagnol: I was wondering if it would be possible or make sense to do that using mop 2018-01-14T18:59:01Z Bike: that sounds plausible i guess. 2018-01-14T18:59:01Z pagnol: when the program attempts to update a slot, then the ... metaclass? ... would look at the schema to find out if it's ok 2018-01-14T18:59:24Z _death: slot-value-using-class 2018-01-14T18:59:36Z pagnol: this way the actual code would be unencumbered by those tasks 2018-01-14T18:59:59Z pagnol: is this a method name? 2018-01-14T19:00:11Z Bike: here's a start: define some class and then do (describe (find-class your-class)) and get a look at things 2018-01-14T19:00:23Z pagnol: ok, thanks 2018-01-14T19:01:12Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T19:02:39Z spoken-tales quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T19:06:40Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:07:11Z asarch joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:07:29Z nika quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2018-01-14T19:11:05Z eli quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T19:11:32Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T19:16:41Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:17:44Z AndreasO quit (Quit: Found more important stuff than irc!) 2018-01-14T19:21:38Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T19:21:52Z bms_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T19:22:47Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T19:22:51Z random-nickname joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:23:00Z makomo: pagnol: what about the book The Art of the Metaobject Protocol (AMOP)? i didn't open the book yet, but it sounds like it might be useful? 2018-01-14T19:23:00Z random-nick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2018-01-14T19:23:52Z Bike: it's not heavy on examples. 2018-01-14T19:24:21Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T19:25:08Z zooey joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:26:59Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:27:57Z random-nickname quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2018-01-14T19:28:46Z dieggsy quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.50)) 2018-01-14T19:30:59Z pagnol: makomo, I have a copy of the book and skimmed the first few chapters but I feel I would need to set some time aside specifically for studying the MOP to get anything out of it 2018-01-14T19:31:33Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T19:33:23Z makomo: ah 2018-01-14T19:34:17Z visof joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:35:53Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:36:15Z pagnol: I found a good tutorial here in case anyone cares: http://www.drdobbs.com/parallel/lisp-classes-in-the-metaobject-protocol/200000266?pgno=5 2018-01-14T19:37:01Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:38:42Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:39:30Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T19:39:51Z AndreasO joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:39:55Z lemonpepper24 joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:40:22Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:41:41Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T19:42:47Z AndreasO quit (Client Quit) 2018-01-14T19:43:27Z visof quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2018-01-14T19:43:31Z jonh joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:47:14Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:48:44Z eli joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:48:44Z eli quit (Changing host) 2018-01-14T19:48:44Z eli joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:51:57Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T19:51:58Z dieggsy joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:52:47Z dieggsy quit (Client Quit) 2018-01-14T19:54:56Z dieggsy joined #lisp 2018-01-14T19:57:28Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:00:16Z fiveop joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:00:55Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER) 2018-01-14T20:01:09Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2018-01-14T20:02:11Z igemnace joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:02:19Z damke_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:02:31Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:05:09Z damke quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:07:26Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:09:07Z spoken-tales joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:12:02Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:14:08Z random-nickname joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:15:41Z scymtym joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:15:50Z AndreasO joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:17:28Z random-nickname is now known as random-nick 2018-01-14T20:17:44Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:18:47Z dtornabene joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:19:20Z smasta joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:19:23Z fiveop: Is there an idomatic name for the function that is similar to SOME, but checks elements of trees instead of sequences? Does Alexandria have such a function? 2018-01-14T20:19:56Z makomo: pagnol: thanks, i'm interested as well 2018-01-14T20:20:23Z AndreasO quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T20:20:26Z pagnol: makomo, do you already have a concrete use case you would like to apply it to? 2018-01-14T20:20:35Z asarch: beach, my notes: https://imgur.com/a/OT0Ce 2018-01-14T20:20:50Z asarch: :-) 2018-01-14T20:21:47Z phoe: fiveop: for a very consing solution, use FLATTEN on the treeOA 2018-01-14T20:21:58Z phoe: though it might not work on dotted lists. 2018-01-14T20:22:27Z phoe: asarch: it's pjb, not pbj. (: 2018-01-14T20:22:33Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:22:48Z makomo: pagnol: oh, nope, but i want to learn more about it because (1) it's very interesting and (2) i've been doing some java/spring recently and am interested in the comparison between the two 2018-01-14T20:23:10Z asarch: D'oh! Sorry 2018-01-14T20:23:17Z makomo: pagnol: i.e. how the stuff that java/spring has/solves transfers over to lisp 2018-01-14T20:23:20Z asarch: My dislexic pen :-P 2018-01-14T20:23:42Z fiveop: phoe: that would work, if I thought the thing through properly. I do not only want to check the atoms, but the three itself and its subtrees as well. 2018-01-14T20:23:54Z smasta quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:24:05Z phoe: fiveop: ooh, i see. do you want some kind of tree traversal and apply the predicate to each tree node? 2018-01-14T20:24:11Z visof joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:24:27Z phoe: I think nothing in the standard or in Alexandria is suited for that. Feel free to roll your own. 2018-01-14T20:25:45Z Murii quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 2018-01-14T20:25:59Z fiveop: yes, tree traversel but with early exit (some :)) 2018-01-14T20:26:04Z fiveop: (like some) 2018-01-14T20:27:49Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:28:19Z asarch: Soupe à l'oignon :-) 2018-01-14T20:31:54Z smasta joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:32:26Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:36:35Z fiveop quit 2018-01-14T20:36:58Z _superjudge quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:37:00Z _mjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:37:59Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:38:40Z BitPuffin quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T20:40:08Z Xof joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:42:57Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:43:18Z dieggsy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T20:46:50Z DeadTrickster quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T20:48:11Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:49:17Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2018-01-14T20:50:25Z smasta quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:52:47Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T20:54:13Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T20:54:53Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:55:53Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T20:56:28Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:58:10Z raynold joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:58:25Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T20:58:58Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T20:59:44Z zooey joined #lisp 2018-01-14T21:02:11Z ft quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T21:02:55Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T21:07:07Z spoken-tales quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T21:18:20Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T21:22:52Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T21:27:57Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T21:28:32Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T21:28:51Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T21:29:04Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T21:33:38Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T21:34:44Z Shinmera: pagnol: I implement a metaclass that does strict type checking on slots for my chat protocol specification 2018-01-14T21:35:04Z pagnol: Shinmera, then I'd love to take a look 2018-01-14T21:35:07Z Shinmera: https://github.com/Shirakumo/lichat-protocol/blob/master/typed-slot-class.lisp 2018-01-14T21:35:09Z pagnol: thank you 2018-01-14T21:35:54Z pagnol: Shinmera, btw.. 2018-01-14T21:36:02Z pagnol: 日本語ができますか? 2018-01-14T21:36:38Z Shinmera: いいえ。スイス人です。 2018-01-14T21:37:03Z Shinmera: でも、日本語を勉強します。 2018-01-14T21:37:45Z pagnol: 日本に行ったことがありますか? 2018-01-14T21:37:55Z bms_ joined #lisp 2018-01-14T21:38:17Z smasta joined #lisp 2018-01-14T21:38:37Z Shinmera: うん。一度 2018-01-14T21:38:52Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T21:38:53Z Shinmera: But, we should probably stop, since this is an English channel. 2018-01-14T21:41:33Z ft joined #lisp 2018-01-14T21:43:38Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T21:45:30Z random-nick quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T21:45:31Z bms_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T21:46:06Z brendyn joined #lisp 2018-01-14T21:49:07Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T21:51:19Z jasom: yeah, I don't know any spanish 2018-01-14T21:53:35Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T21:54:22Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2018-01-14T21:55:13Z hexfive joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:03:38Z oleo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:04:50Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:07:16Z asarch quit (Quit: Leaving) 2018-01-14T22:07:20Z sz0 joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:07:37Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2018-01-14T22:07:37Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2018-01-14T22:12:29Z josemanuel quit (Quit: leaving) 2018-01-14T22:13:18Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T22:17:08Z s992 joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:17:23Z s992: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wuc1l5px2M&t=10s 2018-01-14T22:18:49Z ski joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:19:04Z phoe: s992: is this Lisp-related at all? 2018-01-14T22:20:56Z smasta quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T22:22:36Z phoe: BTW, who is responsible for https://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/lisp-2018-01.txt ? It stopped logging earlier today. 2018-01-14T22:23:15Z Xof quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T22:25:28Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T22:25:29Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:25:29Z Bike: the monthly versus daily logs on clozure just break for no reasons sometime 2018-01-14T22:26:26Z phoe: Oh. Okay. 2018-01-14T22:27:28Z loli quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2018-01-14T22:27:41Z loli joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:29:04Z hexfive quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2018-01-14T22:39:07Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T22:41:22Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:41:44Z raynold: Ahh it's a wonderful day 2018-01-14T22:44:33Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:46:40Z nopf joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:49:20Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2018-01-14T22:53:22Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:56:21Z wxie joined #lisp 2018-01-14T22:57:32Z smurfrobot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T23:04:33Z damke_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2018-01-14T23:06:20Z wxie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-01-14T23:08:26Z smasta joined #lisp 2018-01-14T23:09:37Z krwq joined #lisp 2018-01-14T23:10:42Z Folkol quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2018-01-14T23:11:20Z krwq: hello, what is the best way to redirect multiple streams into one ideally without reading all of them entirely into memory? is there some good library for combining streams? 2018-01-14T23:12:30Z Xach: krwq: a concatenated-stream would be half the answer, then a loop of your own making to write the output. 2018-01-14T23:12:52Z krwq: Xach: that sounds good - thank you! 2018-01-14T23:16:46Z eivarv quit (Quit: Sleep) 2018-01-14T23:17:02Z pierpa joined #lisp 2018-01-14T23:17:20Z pagnol quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T23:18:27Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2018-01-14T23:20:56Z fnodeuser left #lisp 2018-01-14T23:20:56Z shifty joined #lisp 2018-01-14T23:22:11Z krwq: Xach: this works for my case but in general do you know if there is any library which would conceptually as this? https://pastebin.com/aw4P1AqV 2018-01-14T23:24:57Z Xach: krwq: I don't know, sorry. 2018-01-14T23:25:18Z krwq: Xach: the problem with the concatenate-stream is that I have a function which compiles from stream and I'd like to provide it several files but I do not neccessarily want to open all files 2018-01-14T23:25:25Z krwq: what about some kind of memory stream? 2018-01-14T23:26:24Z pillton: Open all files simultaneously? 2018-01-14T23:26:34Z krwq: pillton: ideally one by one 2018-01-14T23:27:53Z fikka quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2018-01-14T23:28:46Z krwq: technically I can create temporary file or with-input-from-string and with-output-to-stream together to have memory stream 2018-01-14T23:29:20Z ben3 joined #lisp 2018-01-14T23:30:09Z Xach: krwq: you don't want to open all the files? 2018-01-14T23:30:23Z krwq: Xach: Unless I have to I don't 2018-01-14T23:30:57Z fikka joined #lisp 2018-01-14T23:32:02Z pillton: Does the function that processes the input stream do something after reading all of the input? 2018-01-14T23:32:12Z spoken-tales joined #lisp 2018-01-14T23:32:44Z krwq: pillton: what do you mean? 2018-01-14T23:32:58Z krwq: pillton: it only returns value 2018-01-14T23:33:34Z pillton: Why can't you just call the function multiple times? Why do you have to concatenate the streams? 2018-01-14T23:34:32Z krwq: pillton: so specifically this is parenscript - I'd like to concatenate macros before the script I compile 2018-01-14T23:35:00Z krwq: so the output of that thing is js 2018-01-14T23:35:03Z krwq: as string 2018-01-14T23:35:48Z krwq: so macros get compiled to nothing 2018-01-14T23:36:00Z krwq: so technically I can't do that 2018-01-14T23:36:41Z krwq: but that's not the first time I'm fighting with streams - I'd like to learn some better way to handle them 2018-01-14T23:39:33Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T23:41:42Z smasta quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2018-01-14T23:45:27Z smasta joined #lisp 2018-01-14T23:51:27Z visof quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T23:55:43Z smasta quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2018-01-14T23:56:00Z s992 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2018-01-14T23:58:03Z pillton: I'd say you need to come to terms with the fact that the standard defines no "pipe" stream. 2018-01-14T23:58:05Z smurfrobot joined #lisp 2018-01-14T23:58:55Z krwq: pillton: are there any pipes libraries? 2018-01-14T23:59:06Z krwq: not in the standard?