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2017-06-11T00:57:38Z jasom: shinmera is in western europe somewhere, right? (trying to get an idea of when he would be online)
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2017-06-11T02:26:47Z whoman2: is sbcl completely written in itself, and thats why it needs a CL to bootstrap? are any other impls like this?
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2017-06-11T02:36:09Z White_Flame: sbcl forked off of cmucl, which has a similar build concept.  one of the major reasons for the sbcl branch was to clean up build issues
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2017-06-11T02:58:56Z Bicyclidine: it's not completely written in lisp though. you need a C compiler.
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2017-06-11T03:00:00Z whoman2: ah, hmm.
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2017-06-11T03:16:26Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2017-06-11T03:17:47Z beach: whoman2: Pretty much every existing implementation has some C code in it.  Some more than others.  With SICL, I am planning to write it entirely in Common Lisp, though it will also need the MOP in addition to just the standard stuff.
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2017-06-11T03:19:50Z whoman2: ah i see. and cool =) meta object protocol?
2017-06-11T03:20:41Z beach: Yes.  Creating the object system requires more functionality of the object system than the standard provides.
2017-06-11T03:26:13Z White_Flame: stanley spadowski discusses the evolution & development of meta object protocols: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9W-smdTVjA
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2017-06-11T03:30:57Z beach: whoman2: I am planning to write an article (maybe an essay or a blog) about bootstrapping Common Lisp.  It seems when I ask why people write their Common Lisp systems in C or C++ (or any language other than Common Lisp), I am not satisfied with the answers I get.  So I need to find out the advantages and disadvantages of writing in a different language and of writing it in Common Lisp.
2017-06-11T03:32:02Z whoman2: hmm. i am thinking a lot about this especially this night. i would be interested to digest such essay/blog/article
2017-06-11T03:33:04Z beach: It is not imminent, though.  I first have to make sure the SICL bootstrapping process works as I want it to.
2017-06-11T03:33:58Z beach: Either way, any Common Lisp system will have a large part of it written in Common Lisp.  It would be pure torture to write the complete compiler in something else.  Though, having said that, I haven't checked whether any implementation does that.
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2017-06-11T03:36:10Z whoman2: perhaps there is a scheme whom does.. is SICL written in anything other than CL?
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2017-06-11T03:37:06Z beach: But when a Common Lisp system is written in C or C++, what happens is that the C or C++ code will create an incomplete system, and the rest is filled in by Common Lisp code.  Then, the implementer must write the rest in what drmeister calls "pidgin Common Lisp, i.e. a stripped down version of Common Lisp.  And that can be really frustrating because it is hard to know what functionality is available at what time in the bootstrapping
2017-06-11T03:37:06Z beach: process.
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2017-06-11T03:37:27Z beach: whoman2: SICL is written entirely in Common Lisp.
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2017-06-11T03:39:00Z beach: I was so frustrated with having to keep track of what functionality I could use for what parts of the system that I just bagged it and assumed that I had the full language available from the start.  The resulting code looks much more "natural".
2017-06-11T03:40:03Z beach: In particular, the SICL version of CLOS looks more "natural" than PCL.  I can write (defclass standard-class (class) (...)) and similar.
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2017-06-11T04:07:30Z whoman2: beach, awesome! i am going to take a closer look later on. ive just learned clos as well last week so ive got better eyes. talk later
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2017-06-11T05:00:58Z compro: what is the difference between eq and eql? (i want examples)
2017-06-11T05:01:15Z Bicyclidine: (eql 4 4) => T, (eq 4 4) => could be T or NIL
2017-06-11T05:01:34Z fiddlerwoaroof: eq essentially tests that each argument has the same location in memory
2017-06-11T05:01:42Z beach: compro: (eq 9430923840923402938402938402934029348029340239 9430923840923402938402938402934029348029340239) very likely NIL, but (eql 9430923840923402938402938402934029348029340239 9430923840923402938402938402934029348029340239) is true.
2017-06-11T05:01:44Z fiddlerwoaroof: eql tests values for certain "primitive" types
2017-06-11T05:02:02Z fiddlerwoaroof: e.g. characters and numbers
2017-06-11T05:02:19Z compro: but in which implmentation of lisp would (eq 4 4) could be NIL?
2017-06-11T05:02:34Z fiddlerwoaroof: It's unspecified, I think
2017-06-11T05:02:40Z beach: compro: None that we know of.
2017-06-11T05:02:44Z fiddlerwoaroof: Most implementations probably intern small numbers
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2017-06-11T05:03:05Z fiddlerwoaroof: But that is, strictly speaking, an implementation detail
2017-06-11T05:03:37Z beach: compro: You could imagine a simple implementation where every object is a pointer to some heap-allocated data, including small numbers.  In such an implementation (eq 4 4) would be NIL.
2017-06-11T05:04:21Z compro: I don't see the point of having two of them in the same place
2017-06-11T05:04:34Z beach: two of what?
2017-06-11T05:04:39Z compro: In lisp why would we be worried about the memory locations?
2017-06-11T05:05:10Z beach: compro: Identity is an extremely important concept in object-oriented languages like Common Lisp.
2017-06-11T05:05:37Z compro: I mean we  don't have any way to manipulate memory locations
2017-06-11T05:05:43Z compro: in lisp
2017-06-11T05:05:50Z beach: You can test them for identity, using EQ.
2017-06-11T05:05:52Z fiddlerwoaroof: "memory location" is a bad way of expressing it, it's better to say "object identity"
2017-06-11T05:06:23Z fiddlerwoaroof: value equality is badly specified in general
2017-06-11T05:06:48Z compro: so, its solely made for portability accross different lisp implementations?
2017-06-11T05:06:50Z fiddlerwoaroof: s/badly specified/ill-defined/
2017-06-11T05:07:14Z beach: compro: No, like I said, identity is an important concept in object-oriented languages like Common Lisp.
2017-06-11T05:07:38Z compro: I don't see any way to differentiate them
2017-06-11T05:07:43Z compro: practically
2017-06-11T05:07:50Z beach: differentiate what?
2017-06-11T05:07:56Z compro: the results
2017-06-11T05:08:02Z beach: the results of what?
2017-06-11T05:08:11Z compro: eq and eql
2017-06-11T05:08:12Z fiddlerwoaroof: eql is something like (defun eql (a b) (typecase (number (= a b)) (character (char= a b)) (t (eq a b))))
2017-06-11T05:08:23Z fiddlerwoaroof: without eq, you don't have a default case
2017-06-11T05:08:29Z beach: compro: You were just told.  If you compare two bignums, then you use EQL.
2017-06-11T05:08:31Z Bicyclidine: eql on numbers isn't like =. it's confusing, at least to me
2017-06-11T05:09:08Z beach: compro: Also floating-point numbers require EQL.
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2017-06-11T05:10:14Z beach: compro: Some people always use EQL (and never EQ), but EQ is typically faster, and it is perfectly safe for things like CONSes, symbols, standard objects, etc.
2017-06-11T05:10:25Z compro: Yes, thats theoritical but we get the same results using both eq and eql
2017-06-11T05:10:36Z beach: You don't.
2017-06-11T05:10:43Z beach: We have given you several examples.
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2017-06-11T05:11:20Z Bicyclidine: try like, (eq (1+ most-positive-fixnum) (1+ most-positive-fixnum)) or something, it's quite possibly nil.
2017-06-11T05:11:25Z compro: You gave me the def of eql. Not an example
2017-06-11T05:11:34Z beach: (eq 1234234234d10 1234234234d10) => NIL in SBCL.
2017-06-11T05:11:57Z Bicyclidine: see? example.
2017-06-11T05:12:09Z compro: that is better
2017-06-11T05:12:10Z beach: (eq 203840293402938402938402938402349 203840293402938402938402938402349) => NIL in SBCL.
2017-06-11T05:12:21Z beach: compro: I already gave you such an example before.
2017-06-11T05:12:27Z compro: why is that so?
2017-06-11T05:12:52Z beach: Bignums require heap allocation, so they are represented by pointers.
2017-06-11T05:13:02Z fiddlerwoaroof: Because eq compares identities not values
2017-06-11T05:13:19Z beach: compro: Two bignums with the same value created at different times have different pointers to the same values.
2017-06-11T05:13:28Z beach: compro: Since EQ compares pointers, the result is NIL.
2017-06-11T05:14:31Z compro: Where do we use eq apart from comparing objects since that can be done using eql
2017-06-11T05:14:44Z fiddlerwoaroof: I never use eq...
2017-06-11T05:14:47Z beach: compro: You were already told.
2017-06-11T05:14:52Z fiddlerwoaroof: I always use eql or equal
2017-06-11T05:15:02Z beach: compro: [again] Some people always use EQL (and never EQ), but EQ is typically faster, and it is perfectly safe for things like CONSes, symbols, standard objects, etc.
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2017-06-11T05:16:17Z compro: okay. but I don't see that we have much control on the heap allocation. so, we have to fully depend upon values in lisp
2017-06-11T05:16:37Z fiddlerwoaroof: The problem with value equality is that it can be really surprising
2017-06-11T05:16:47Z beach: compro: [again] No, like I said, identity is an important concept in object-oriented languages like Common Lisp.
2017-06-11T05:16:49Z compro: how
2017-06-11T05:17:15Z compro: concepts apart. can we talk about the real world.
2017-06-11T05:17:17Z fiddlerwoaroof: e.g. in Javascript I always use === (eq, essentially) instead of == because 1 == "1"
2017-06-11T05:17:48Z fiddlerwoaroof: Other languages have more reasonable semantics for value equality, but it's a bit tricky to get right
2017-06-11T05:19:16Z beach: compro: If I have a table of members of club A and a hash table of members of club B, I can use EQ to find out what people are members of both clubs.  Is that real world enough for you?
2017-06-11T05:19:56Z compro: thank you for your help beach and fiddlerwoaroof . it was a great pleasure.
2017-06-11T05:20:04Z beach: Anytime.
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2017-06-11T05:49:42Z sebras: hi! I'm translating CLISP's messages into Swedish and I came across the string "~S: ~S does not match lambda list element ~:S", this being the first time I'm seeing a colon between ~ and S I'm thinking there might be a problem in the original message.
2017-06-11T05:50:13Z sebras: I did try to read http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/sec_22-3.html but me not being fluent in LISP made it a hard read.
2017-06-11T05:51:09Z fiddlerwoaroof: That makes NIL to be printed as ()
2017-06-11T05:51:11Z sebras: is it the case that ~S and ~:S are the same? or would ~:S create a problem if the string was ever printed in CLISP?
2017-06-11T05:51:21Z fiddlerwoaroof: So, it's probably not a mistake
2017-06-11T05:52:30Z sebras: fiddlerwoaroof: aha, thanks for helping out! :)
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2017-06-11T06:23:07Z beach: sebras: How do you intend to configure which language is used?
2017-06-11T06:23:22Z beach: sebras: Or does CLISP already have a mechanism for that?
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2017-06-11T06:33:30Z sebras: beach: I think so, it seems to be translated for other languages and is available on translationproject.org
2017-06-11T06:34:26Z sebras: beach: seems to use gettext like most other projects.
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2017-06-11T06:42:36Z beach: I see.  Thanks!
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2017-06-11T06:53:33Z beach: Does using gettext mean that you can't change the order of the arguments given to the FORMAT call in the condition reporter?
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2017-06-11T06:55:24Z beach: I guess one could play tricks with FORMAT directives so that it alters the order of the arguments.
2017-06-11T07:00:39Z beach: (format nil "~s's ~s" 'a 'b) => A's B
2017-06-11T07:00:56Z beach: (format nil "Le ~*~s de ~2:*~s" 'a 'b) => "Le B de A"
2017-06-11T07:01:51Z beach: Between English and Swedish, there should be few cases where the order needs to be altered.
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2017-06-11T08:29:51Z evgeniy: How does someone code in Lisp?
2017-06-11T08:29:59Z evgeniy: Specificaly Scheme
2017-06-11T08:30:15Z beach: evgeniy: This channel is dedicated to Common Lisp.
2017-06-11T08:30:21Z beach: evgeniy: Try #scheme.
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2017-06-11T12:11:01Z rk[ghost]: OK) i have 2 related questions
2017-06-11T12:11:11Z rk[ghost]: looking for libraries, i presume.
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2017-06-11T12:12:23Z rk[ghost]: poking around with making a text/terminal program. want to go beyond the sbcl(or whichever repl shell)
2017-06-11T12:12:53Z rk[ghost]: so A) imagine that i have a grid of 0s, n*m
2017-06-11T12:13:02Z rk[ghost]: and i want to move a 1 around
2017-06-11T12:13:22Z rk[ghost]: i know how how to keep the internal state for such
2017-06-11T12:13:37Z rk[ghost]: but currently each time i call something like (move 'up)
2017-06-11T12:13:57Z rk[ghost]: i just recall print or let it output the resultant grid
2017-06-11T12:14:20Z rk[ghost]: how can i have the print be "in-place".. always updating the same text area
2017-06-11T12:14:43Z rk[ghost]: essentially a TUI program
2017-06-11T12:15:19Z rk[ghost]: and the B) is how do i handle readline/ key inputs. ie) how to map pressing H to call the function (move 'left)
2017-06-11T12:15:49Z rk[ghost]: any help / guidance on what libraries or how to consider these ideas would be appreciated
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2017-06-11T12:46:35Z p_l: rk[ghost]: any of the libraries that provide access to ncurses - don't recall the names right now, but those are the ones handling things
2017-06-11T12:49:16Z dim: cl-charms is one of them
2017-06-11T12:50:16Z dim: rk[ghost]: see http://www.cliki.net/console
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2017-06-11T13:43:30Z madrik: Greetings.
2017-06-11T13:44:17Z beach: Hello madrik.
2017-06-11T13:45:48Z madrik: beach: Hello.
2017-06-11T13:46:00Z ebdreger nods at madrik and beach to greet them
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2017-06-11T13:47:09Z beach: ebdreger: Are you new here?  I don't recognize your nick.
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2017-06-11T13:47:24Z ebdreger: It's been a few years since I popped by.
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2017-06-11T13:47:36Z beach: You must have used a different nick then.
2017-06-11T13:47:58Z ebdreger: I might have used ^eddy_ or ^eddy or eebeedee.  Other than that... I don't know.
2017-06-11T13:48:13Z madrik: ebdreger: Hello.
2017-06-11T13:48:58Z ebdreger: I don't think that I've been by since ~2014.
2017-06-11T13:49:36Z beach: OK.  I see creddy_ and teddy_y.
2017-06-11T13:49:43Z beach: Not important I guess.
2017-06-11T13:50:08Z beach: ebdreger: Welcome back.
2017-06-11T13:50:12Z easye: beach: Do you have some sort of data source for all nicks that appeared on #lisp?
2017-06-11T13:50:20Z ebdreger ... . o O ( Once upon a time in efnet, I IRCed too much.  Now, too little? )
2017-06-11T13:50:27Z ebdreger: beach: thanks
2017-06-11T13:50:32Z beach: Yeah, they are called "Unix files" and I use a utility called "grep" :)
2017-06-11T13:50:51Z easye: ebdreger: Naw.  It is healthy to give up IRC for a while.
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2017-06-11T13:51:17Z easye: beach: your local archives, or is there a public source of #lisp?
2017-06-11T13:51:31Z beach: easye: I use wget to fetch them from tunes.org
2017-06-11T13:51:43Z easye: Cool. Good for Fare.
2017-06-11T13:51:50Z beach: Yes.
2017-06-11T13:52:04Z beach: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/17.06.11 for today.  You can guess the rest.
2017-06-11T13:52:13Z beach: I use wget -N
2017-06-11T13:52:19Z easye: Why not Drakma?
2017-06-11T13:52:26Z easye smiles.
2017-06-11T13:53:17Z ebdreger: (incf (slot-value easye 'score))
2017-06-11T13:53:34Z beach is a web illiterate. 
2017-06-11T13:53:58Z easye: beach: I'm just joking.  I would have used wget and grep myself.
2017-06-11T13:54:01Z Ichimusai: Gopher is the shit :)
2017-06-11T13:54:21Z easye: I guess it stems from the lack of a good grep "interface" for the REPL.
2017-06-11T13:54:22Z beach: easye: Whew!
2017-06-11T13:54:47Z easye laughs.
2017-06-11T13:54:56Z ebdreger: easye: I rather like the PPCRE reader macro demonstrated in LoL :)
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2017-06-11T13:55:34Z easye: ebdreger: Ooh.  I have only read the comics, I never looked at the text.  I should get a copy for the library.
2017-06-11T13:55:47Z easye: Certainly a very pleasurable author to read.
2017-06-11T13:56:12Z ebdreger: http://letoverlambda.com/index.cl/guest/chap4.html
2017-06-11T13:56:19Z ebdreger: search for: #~
2017-06-11T13:56:32Z ebdreger: makes repl-based regexp matching very clean
2017-06-11T13:56:37Z rk[ghost]: thanks p_l and dim
2017-06-11T13:56:45Z easye "Cool." Increments ebdreger's score.
2017-06-11T13:56:57Z rk[ghost]: i will etch away at the list until i distill something i useable / understandable
2017-06-11T13:57:11Z easye: Oh.  I confused Lol with "Land of Lisp".
2017-06-11T13:57:56Z ebdreger: easye: I was scratching my head re comics, but figured I was tired and not groking you. :)
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2017-06-11T13:58:06Z easye: _Let over Lambda_ I have never fully read, as all of the contents are not public, and I "don't do" epub for fees.
2017-06-11T13:58:38Z ebdreger actually has the dead-tree edition, and has had it for ~7 years.
2017-06-11T13:58:48Z easye: Doug Hoyt's style is not as fun as Conrad Barski's.
2017-06-11T13:59:16Z easye: ebdreger: Then I should buy the dead tree version the next time I have library capital.
2017-06-11T14:01:40Z easye definitely understands macros better than he last trued to read _Let Over Lambda_.
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2017-06-11T14:01:52Z easye: s/trued/tried/
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2017-06-11T14:04:15Z drmeister: _Let Over Lambda_ is unreadable on iBooks - the special characters are all mangled.
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2017-06-11T14:05:13Z dim: what kind of “special character”, is it just unicode?
2017-06-11T14:05:31Z Ichimusai: Thass spechul enough for some systems.
2017-06-11T14:05:38Z Ichimusai: Go home EBCDIC you're drunk :)
2017-06-11T14:05:48Z easye loves just how timeless the cartoon on http://landoflisp.com/ remains, almost a decade later.
2017-06-11T14:05:53Z dim: I have \pset null '⦱' in my ~/.psqlrc but xelatex doesn't seem to be able to render it, I guess I need to find a proper font setting... :/
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2017-06-11T14:12:36Z drmeister: Yikes - I need to correct what I said about _Let Over Lambda_ on iBooks - it appears readable now.
2017-06-11T14:12:49Z drmeister: I just flipped through 280 pages on my MacBook Pro.
2017-06-11T14:13:09Z drmeister: I remember shutting it down in disgust a year ago when I was trying to read it on my iPhone.
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2017-06-11T14:13:37Z easye: drmeister: didcha use your touch bar on the MacBook Pro?
2017-06-11T14:17:25Z drmeister: It's fine on the iPhone as well - neat! - Now I can read LoL
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2017-06-11T14:17:39Z drmeister likes problems that go away when he ignores them.
2017-06-11T14:18:01Z drmeister: easye: The only thing that is good for is fast forwarding through some ads on Youtube.
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2017-06-11T14:18:37Z drmeister: I don't recommend the new MacBook pro - I've had a lot of trouble with it.
2017-06-11T14:20:07Z easye: Hardware return?
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2017-06-11T14:20:33Z easye: But the touch should be superior to jog through media like a PDF.
2017-06-11T14:21:30Z easye simulates this has an auxilary Trackpad which also has a "height" input.
2017-06-11T14:21:53Z easye: s/simulates this has/simulates this as/
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2017-06-11T14:24:41Z dim: application support is key, and not always as good as it could be
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2017-06-11T17:55:53Z drmeister: When I said this morning that _Let over Lambda_ is unreadable on iBooks - here is an example:
2017-06-11T17:55:54Z drmeister: http://i.imgur.com/4j36S2I.png
2017-06-11T17:56:13Z drmeister: Copyright symbol?
2017-06-11T17:56:34Z pjb: :-)
2017-06-11T17:56:38Z dim: not even consistently
2017-06-11T17:56:46Z pjb: Well, I don't use iBook if I can avoid it. Acrobat reader, in general…
2017-06-11T17:56:50Z dim: or did LoL add a reader macro for it? ;-)
2017-06-11T17:57:03Z pjb: Nope, it must have been scanned from paper…
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2017-06-11T20:25:02Z malice: Hi! I've got a string designating a pathname, like "/some/directory/file.ext". I want to create a full path from this string, like "/home/user/some/directory/file.ext". THe path there is "relative". How can I do that?
2017-06-11T20:25:14Z malice: merge-pathnames throws file.ext into user-homedir. Not what I mean.
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2017-06-11T20:34:22Z loke___: malice: is it #p"some/directory/" or #p"/some/directory/"?
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2017-06-11T20:35:59Z malice: loke___:actually it's a string but it's /some/directory/
2017-06-11T20:36:10Z loke___: malice: Then you can
2017-06-11T20:36:28Z loke___: then you can't use MERGE-PATHNAMES since your pathname is alrerady absolute.
2017-06-11T20:36:43Z loke___: Do you want to do this using Common Lisp standard pathname functions?
2017-06-11T20:36:55Z malice: Yes, please.
2017-06-11T20:37:24Z loke___: OK, then you have to create a pathname out of it, and then use PATHNAME-DIRECTORY on this
2017-06-11T20:37:44Z loke___: Then you have to manually check if the first element of the returned list is :ABSOLUTE, in which case you have to remove it.
2017-06-11T20:38:03Z loke___: Then you can append it to the home directory
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2017-06-11T20:38:22Z fiddlerwoaroof: Is the a stream library that is backed by a user-specified adjustable array?
2017-06-11T20:38:37Z loke___: Actually just remove the first element, since it'll be wither :RELATIVE or :ABSOLUTE
2017-06-11T20:38:43Z loke___: fiddlerwoaroof: Yes.
2017-06-11T20:38:47Z loke___: fiddlerwoaroof: input or output?
2017-06-11T20:38:50Z fiddlerwoaroof: output
2017-06-11T20:39:02Z fiddlerwoaroof: string-output-stream and flexi-streams don't seem to have what I want
2017-06-11T20:40:01Z loke___: fiddlerwoaroof: FLEXI-STREAMS:MAKE-IN-MEMORY-OUTPUT-STREAM
2017-06-11T20:40:23Z fiddlerwoaroof: That doesn't let me specify the underlying array
2017-06-11T20:40:27Z ebdreger: would it be correct/reasonable to use: (translate-pathname #p"/home/user/" "*" "/some/directory/file.ext") ?
2017-06-11T20:40:58Z fiddlerwoaroof: My use case is that I want to have a STORAGE class with two subclasses: one backed by adjustable arrays and another backed by the filesyste
2017-06-11T20:41:19Z fiddlerwoaroof: m.  That way, I can avoid interacting with the filesystem in tests.
2017-06-11T20:41:32Z loke___: You can also use WITH-OUTPUT-TO-SEQUENCE
2017-06-11T20:41:56Z fiddlerwoaroof: My thought was, to have the array version have a method that returns a stream that reads into a buffer stored inside a hash-table
2017-06-11T20:42:40Z fiddlerwoaroof: While the filesystem version would return a stream that points to a file
2017-06-11T20:42:49Z loke___: ebdreger: Possibly. I don't know that one.
2017-06-11T20:42:54Z loke___: Always something new to learn :-)
2017-06-11T20:43:18Z fiddlerwoaroof: Although, I have to work out resource management in that case, I guess...
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2017-06-11T20:47:36Z fiddlerwoaroof: Maybe I can subclass in-memory-output-stream with a minimum of effort
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2017-06-11T20:53:39Z drmeister: Does anyone do much x86_64 assembly programming?   I need to implement APPLY in assembly language.
2017-06-11T20:54:21Z drmeister: I'm probably going to have to just knuckle down and start writing it - but I'm tossing this out there in case anyone has any helpful thoughts.
2017-06-11T20:54:35Z malice: loke___: thanks, but the file gets lost in the pathname-directory
2017-06-11T20:54:47Z fiddlerwoaroof: drmeister: Sounds fun :) I wish I could help
2017-06-11T20:54:54Z loke___: malice: That's because the file is not part of the direcotry
2017-06-11T20:55:31Z loke___: malice: basically, you construct a new path, and then use MERGE-PATHNAMES to bring in the rest
2017-06-11T20:55:48Z loke___: or, perhaps you can use TRANSLATE-PATHNAME as ebdreger said.
2017-06-11T20:56:45Z TMA: drmeister: I am not doing much in assembly at present.
2017-06-11T20:58:02Z TMA: drmeister: are you trying to make apply to work with standard ABI for x86_64?
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2017-06-11T21:01:14Z drmeister: Yes, I need an APPLY that takes arguments from an x86_64 call, allocates space on the stack and copies the arguments into that space followed by the argument in the list in the last element.
2017-06-11T21:01:58Z drmeister: To make things easier I might rearrange the order of arguments to go:  (APPLY* closure nargs last-arg-list arg0 arg1 ...)
2017-06-11T21:03:03Z drmeister: The last-arg-list can be either a pointer to a list of CONS cells or a list of arguments using the va_list/varargs mechanism.
2017-06-11T21:03:15Z TMA: there are all sorts of problems trying to bite you
2017-06-11T21:03:19Z drmeister: Fun - huh?
2017-06-11T21:03:27Z drmeister: Of course there are.
2017-06-11T21:03:55Z malice: Thanks loke___
2017-06-11T21:04:14Z drmeister: Currently I have APPLY implemented in C++ and arguments get copied twice and generic function invocations use APPLY twice - which means arguments are copied four times.
2017-06-11T21:04:16Z TMA: drmeister: first: do you know the types of arg0 ... ?
2017-06-11T21:04:21Z malice: unfortunately translate-pathname does not work - at least no in the form suggested.
2017-06-11T21:04:28Z drmeister: They will be pointers
2017-06-11T21:05:15Z TMA: drmeister: thanks <deity-placeholder>! it's not feasible otherwise
2017-06-11T21:05:22Z drmeister: Tagged pointers.    I have all of this stuff worked out for years now.   I'm using all of the machinery of clasp.   I just need something that will push the arguments into a C-style call on the stack.   I can't do it with LLVM.
2017-06-11T21:06:52Z TMA: drmeister: you could have used unboxed floating point numbers (to be able to call <cmath>'s sinus directly) :)
2017-06-11T21:10:18Z TMA: brb
2017-06-11T21:10:21Z drmeister: Not yet I don't
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2017-06-11T21:10:52Z drmeister: (Trying to make more sense) - I don't pass unboxed floating point numbers at this point.
2017-06-11T21:11:41Z TMA: the abi is (IIRC) simple with only integral/pointer arguments
2017-06-11T21:12:17Z TMA: the first four are passed in registers, the rest is passed on stack
2017-06-11T21:18:55Z drmeister: Just to be on the same page - x86-64 ABI - 6 integer arguments are passed as registers di, si, dx, cx are passed on the stack  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/JTQzhn6O/abi.pdf
2017-06-11T21:19:38Z drmeister: Sorry - I mangled that
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2017-06-11T21:20:23Z drmeister: The first 6 integer-style arguments are passed in registers: %rdi, %rsi, %rdx, %rcx, %r8, %r9
2017-06-11T21:20:57Z TMA: my memory is not that leakproof, only 4 remained in registers out of 6 :)
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2017-06-11T21:23:10Z drmeister: It's no problem - I've been working with this ABI for a while.
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2017-06-11T21:25:26Z drmeister: I have a little rhyme in my head to remember them.
2017-06-11T21:26:02Z drmeister: Although it doesn't really rhyme.
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2017-06-11T22:31:54Z TMA: now I remember, there were four register arguments on 32 bit MIPS (r4, r5, r6, r7)
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2017-06-11T23:30:42Z deba5e12: hey, what's the best way to call a function from a variable package? (say i want to write a dispatcher function that calls the function foo from a package that's chosen at runtime)
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2017-06-11T23:32:06Z whoman: (symbol-function
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2017-06-11T23:39:53Z deba5e12: ok, cool, thanks. that and supplying a package argument to intern seems to be doing the trick
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2017-06-11T23:42:13Z whoman: joy=)
2017-06-11T23:42:31Z whoman was playing with it here, didnt know intern had package arg. next task =)
2017-06-11T23:43:31Z deba5e12: I just learned that myself!
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2017-06-11T23:56:14Z whoman: :)