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2017-05-26T02:59:31Z pillton: What do you mean by access? 2017-05-26T02:59:39Z |3b|: clhs u-h-p 2017-05-26T02:59:39Z specbot: user-homedir-pathname: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_user_h.htm 2017-05-26T02:59:40Z loke`: I want to create a file in the home directory 2017-05-26T03:00:37Z loke`: So basically: 2017-05-26T03:00:41Z loke`: (merge-pathnames (user-homedir-pathname) #p"somename.txt") 2017-05-26T03:00:54Z loke`: Thanks. 2017-05-26T03:01:27Z |3b| would probably put those in opposite order, not sure it matters for that though 2017-05-26T03:02:07Z loke`: is the following portable though? 2017-05-26T03:02:22Z loke`: (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute :home) :name "somename" :type "txt") 2017-05-26T03:02:39Z |3b|: yeah, that sounds reasonable too 2017-05-26T03:03:00Z loke`: I'm not sure if :HOME is portable though 2017-05-26T03:03:12Z neoncontrails quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T03:03:28Z loke`: The glossary entry doesn't say much on the subject: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_v.htm#valid_pathname_directory 2017-05-26T03:03:50Z neoncontrails joined #lisp 2017-05-26T03:04:27Z |3b|: hmm, possibly not 2017-05-26T03:04:37Z |3b| doesn't see it anywhere either 2017-05-26T03:05:03Z loke`: Hmm, where is the documentation on :ABSOLUTE and :RELATIVE? 2017-05-26T03:05:08Z loke`: I can't even find that. 2017-05-26T03:05:22Z |3b|: clhs make-pathname 2017-05-26T03:05:23Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_pn.htm 2017-05-26T03:05:55Z loke`: Interesting... so :UP isn't standardised either? 2017-05-26T03:06:05Z loke`: I've used that on multiple occasions. 2017-05-26T03:06:45Z |3b|: not that it actually /defines/ it, just says something else is same 2017-05-26T03:08:14Z neoncontrails quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T03:08:47Z loke`: Pathnames are the worst part of CL. It's both grossly overengineered and at the same time woefully incomplete. 2017-05-26T03:10:08Z |3b|: clhs 19.2.2.4.3 2017-05-26T03:10:08Z specbot: Restrictions on Examining a Pathname Directory Component: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/19_bbdc.htm 2017-05-26T03:10:53Z |3b|: so :up is portable but might error on some hypothetical filesystems 2017-05-26T03:11:55Z |3b|: (well, probably real filesystems too, if you happen to be using old/odd platforms) 2017-05-26T03:12:24Z loke`: Yes. I use ITS you insensitive clod! 2017-05-26T03:12:47Z loke`: Actually, I do have an ITS system. Let's try it there 2017-05-26T03:12:58Z nacci quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T03:16:32Z loke`: Oh noes. 2017-05-26T03:16:38Z loke`: MacLisp doesn't even have MAKE-PATHNAME 2017-05-26T03:16:46Z loke`: I should have guessed 2017-05-26T03:17:07Z loke`: Let's see if TOPS-20 lisp has it. 2017-05-26T03:17:23Z neoncontrails joined #lisp 2017-05-26T03:20:31Z desku quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2017-05-26T03:22:52Z huza quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T03:26:11Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T03:26:48Z test1600 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T03:27:25Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T03:29:17Z Devon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T03:29:21Z smoon quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-26T03:33:00Z loke`: Hmm, the living computer museum's tops-20 doesn't have a working Lisp 2017-05-26T03:36:31Z jameser joined #lisp 2017-05-26T03:39:49Z ryanbw: loke`: perhaps try http://www.twenex.org 2017-05-26T03:40:08Z ryanbw: see also: http://wiki.twenex.org/tutorials:lisp 2017-05-26T03:40:48Z loke`: I know how it works. It's jsut that the LCM installation is missingt he runtime library, so I don't even have the + function :-) 2017-05-26T03:43:08Z Devon quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T03:43:56Z ryanbw: loke`: I was suggesting that twenex.org may have a working set of lisps installed. 2017-05-26T03:49:27Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T03:50:00Z luis` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T03:50:08Z luis joined #lisp 2017-05-26T03:56:51Z smoon quit (Quit: smoon) 2017-05-26T03:57:34Z neoncontrails quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T03:58:14Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__) 2017-05-26T03:58:15Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:00:09Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-05-26T04:00:13Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:00:58Z emacsoma` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T04:05:58Z emacsoma` joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:07:40Z smoon quit (Quit: smoon) 2017-05-26T04:08:37Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:12:20Z smoon quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-26T04:13:35Z nacci joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:15:41Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:17:03Z loke`: ryanbw: Yeah, I tried to add an account there, but their registration doesn't work. 2017-05-26T04:19:37Z Kevslinger quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-05-26T04:25:59Z smoon quit (Quit: smoon) 2017-05-26T04:28:00Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:35:17Z smoon quit (Quit: smoon) 2017-05-26T04:36:35Z pookleblinky quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T04:37:44Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:39:31Z zulu_inuoe joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:41:18Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:42:45Z zulu_inuoe quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T04:43:23Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2017-05-26T04:45:50Z whoman: good morning! 2017-05-26T04:46:11Z nightfly joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:49:59Z atgreen joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:52:54Z pookleblinky joined #lisp 2017-05-26T04:53:38Z atgreen: I get a "Heap exhausted during garbage collection" when I try to (ql:quickload 'lisp-binary). sbcl 1.3.5 on Fedora x86_64. Any ideas? How can help debug? 2017-05-26T04:54:48Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T04:58:22Z atgreen: hmmm... I updated quicklisp and lisp-binary was removed. maybe there;s a reason! 2017-05-26T04:58:46Z whoman: ^_^ 2017-05-26T05:00:09Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T05:00:27Z diphuser quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T05:04:06Z smoon quit (Quit: smoon) 2017-05-26T05:06:37Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:07:36Z zulu_inuoe_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T05:09:03Z smoon quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-26T05:10:46Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-05-26T05:11:23Z dec0n joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:13:14Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:20:48Z ak51 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:28:25Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T05:29:07Z Bock joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:29:30Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T05:37:40Z chens joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:39:46Z whoman quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T05:40:10Z oleo quit (Quit: irc client terminated!) 2017-05-26T05:40:35Z whoman2 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:41:10Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:43:43Z whoman3 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:43:58Z vap1 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:43:59Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:45:44Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T05:47:27Z whoman2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T05:49:23Z jack_rabbit: o/ 2017-05-26T05:53:06Z beach: Hello jack_rabbit. 2017-05-26T05:53:12Z smoon quit (Quit: smoon) 2017-05-26T05:53:12Z chens quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T05:53:39Z shka_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T05:56:19Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:02:30Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T06:05:24Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:06:22Z vlatkoB joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:11:22Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T06:12:44Z mishoo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:16:49Z phoe: atgreen: exactly because of that. 2017-05-26T06:17:04Z phoe: lisp-binary is affected by a sbcl compilation bug. 2017-05-26T06:21:32Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:23:09Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:24:04Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-05-26T06:24:55Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__) 2017-05-26T06:26:24Z smoon quit (Quit: smoon) 2017-05-26T06:27:12Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T06:27:28Z bigos joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:29:57Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T06:40:01Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T06:41:22Z knobo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:46:41Z EvW1 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:48:39Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T06:49:56Z DataLinkDroid quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 2017-05-26T06:52:09Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:54:33Z enzuru quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2017-05-26T06:56:58Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T06:57:03Z schoppenhauer quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T06:57:48Z cess11 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T06:59:01Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2017-05-26T06:59:35Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp 2017-05-26T07:00:26Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T07:04:47Z akkad: atgreen: bump heap? 2017-05-26T07:06:01Z akkad: e.g. `sbcl --dynamic-space-size 20480` 2017-05-26T07:09:07Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2017-05-26T07:09:11Z X-Scale quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it) 2017-05-26T07:10:27Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T07:10:44Z shifty joined #lisp 2017-05-26T07:11:06Z phoe: akkad: no, it does not work. 2017-05-26T07:11:18Z phoe: it's a bug in SBCL, present on their bug tracker 2017-05-26T07:12:10Z |3b| tried the bug on tracker and didn't see the problem 2017-05-26T07:12:14Z phoe: https://github.com/heegaiximephoomeeghahyaiseekh/lisp-binary/issues/3 2017-05-26T07:12:30Z phoe: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1557590 2017-05-26T07:13:16Z |3b|: yeah, that one 2017-05-26T07:15:09Z phoe: Xach: ^ about lisp-binary being removed from quicklisp 2017-05-26T07:15:52Z |3b| only tried the sbcl bug test case, not lisp-binary though 2017-05-26T07:16:20Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T07:16:27Z phoe: I think you can import lisp-binary into QL local-projects and try to load it 2017-05-26T07:16:45Z |3b| doesn't have ql set up on the system where i was trying it 2017-05-26T07:17:01Z xaotuk joined #lisp 2017-05-26T07:17:20Z |3b|: ah, maybe i was running it wrong though 2017-05-26T07:20:23Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T07:31:44Z |3b|: yeah, breaks if i run it properly 2017-05-26T07:32:08Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T07:34:43Z jfb4 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T07:39:06Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T07:39:22Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T07:42:45Z Harag joined #lisp 2017-05-26T07:48:06Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T07:52:04Z sz0 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T07:52:15Z MetaHertz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T07:52:37Z scymtym joined #lisp 2017-05-26T07:52:55Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-05-26T08:00:17Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:05:41Z neoncontrails joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:06:26Z Suzuran42 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:06:35Z hhdave joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:07:31Z Suzuran quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T08:07:31Z Suzuran42 is now known as Suzuran 2017-05-26T08:07:58Z bigos quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T08:09:23Z yangby quit (Quit: Go out for a walk and buy a drink.) 2017-05-26T08:10:24Z yangby joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:10:34Z EvW joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:10:37Z Beetny joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:11:15Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T08:16:14Z beach quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T08:32:21Z mishoo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:32:45Z rk[ghost] joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:33:22Z gingerale joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:34:28Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:38:32Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T08:42:18Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-05-26T08:42:54Z beach joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:46:52Z beach: Every time I have to restart my computer after having installed software updates, I am furious that we are still using operating-system technology from half a century ago. 2017-05-26T08:49:21Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T08:49:50Z splittist: beach: as opposed to better operating-system technology from half a century ago? 2017-05-26T08:50:38Z beach: That would be better, yes, but the best thing would be to move closer to the 21st century. 2017-05-26T08:52:07Z mishoo_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:52:56Z beach: splittist: A while ago, you hinted that you might do something about my suggested documentation system, or did I misunderstand? 2017-05-26T08:53:27Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T08:55:42Z splittist: beach: yes, I'm slowly thinking about it. Or thinking about writing up some outline documentation to start with. 2017-05-26T08:56:20Z beach: Great! 2017-05-26T08:57:06Z cpt_nemo_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:57:19Z neoncontrails quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T08:57:31Z cpt_nemo_ quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-26T08:57:45Z cpt_nemo_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:57:49Z cpt_nemo_ quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-26T08:57:56Z neoncontrails joined #lisp 2017-05-26T08:58:58Z mazoe joined #lisp 2017-05-26T09:02:35Z neoncontrails quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T09:12:49Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2017-05-26T09:14:05Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T09:14:33Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2017-05-26T09:16:37Z hhdave joined #lisp 2017-05-26T09:17:30Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T09:17:50Z rk[ghost]: beach: from hardware to software.. legacy momentum keeps us in the dark, eh? 2017-05-26T09:19:46Z rk[ghost]: i will share more details in the future.. may be recruiting once some new momentum is achieved.. but me and a friend have been heavily discussing replacing the current stack from top to bottom. in essence come up with a 10 year plan to break out of this current industry driven cycle of being fed garbage... 2017-05-26T09:22:13Z beach: Sounds like a plan. Yes, there is lots of momentum, mainly because people don't seem to call into question their current ways of working. 2017-05-26T09:22:25Z SAL9000: rk[ghost]: when you say top-to-bottom do you mean Lisp OS and working your way up from there, or...? 2017-05-26T09:22:25Z Colleen: SAL9000: drmeister said 10 hours, 52 minutes, 46 seconds ago: The docker directory mounting worked perfectly on Windows this morning. The 'run-docker' script on 'widgets-dev' works without modification. 2017-05-26T09:24:09Z libreman quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2017-05-26T09:25:56Z rk[ghost]: beach: i think it is more because people are swindled so much by $ that they accept writing asldkfj softwarez all day and only spend their efforts afterwords complaining at the bars:P 2017-05-26T09:26:37Z rk[ghost]: SAL9000: you aren't thinking big enough. gotta have a lisp machine before you have a lisp OS 2017-05-26T09:26:45Z jackdaniel: that's far from truth. That way no community-driven language would emerge 2017-05-26T09:26:51Z jackdaniel: python, ruby, clojure 2017-05-26T09:26:57Z SAL9000: rk[ghost]: https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano 2017-05-26T09:27:01Z beach: rk[ghost]: You don't need a Lisp machine to have a Lisp OS. 2017-05-26T09:27:07Z jackdaniel: of course, when some critical mass is reached, it may be commercialized 2017-05-26T09:27:23Z jackdaniel: but the initial effort is driven by people who are simply dissatisfied with current state 2017-05-26T09:27:32Z rk[ghost]: beach: i /know/ that.. but my point was.. that some hardware will need to change.. my true focus isn't on CL.. although i enjoy it much 2017-05-26T09:27:43Z jackdaniel: whenever they direct their effort in good direction is a question for which each answer will be merely an opinion 2017-05-26T09:28:00Z rk[ghost]: much of what me and my friend have been discussing starts with the networking stack.. and that'll require a few changes to some hardware along wit hthe protocols and software 2017-05-26T09:29:37Z rk[ghost]: so i have been toying around with writing a basic lisp interpreter for RV32IMAC; besides McArthys papers.. any other good suggestion resources for the fundamentals of the metacircular evaluator and such? 2017-05-26T09:31:17Z beach: The only reason I can see to write a Lisp interpreter would be in order to learn about language implementation. 2017-05-26T09:32:22Z rk[ghost]: jackdaniel: fair points.. but in the end.. the industry drive overrules anything of interest that comes out of academia or discontent programmers 2017-05-26T09:33:09Z rk[ghost]: beach: well a good chunk of it is to get back in the programming mindset.. quit my job about 1.5 years ago to go farm.. 2017-05-26T09:33:57Z jackdaniel: risky statement, I'd say that it adapts some of it, but overruling is rather a rare exception 2017-05-26T09:33:57Z whoman3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T09:34:05Z beach: rk[ghost]: If all you want is to program, there are more useful things to write than another Lisp interpreter. 2017-05-26T09:35:21Z EvW joined #lisp 2017-05-26T09:35:24Z rk[ghost]: beach: aye, but sorta /need/ (surely it is a want, but meh) an interpreter to move on to the next step of my toy project.. 2017-05-26T09:36:06Z rk[ghost]: think CCL would compile for RV32IMAC.. i suppose i could have just tried and found out.. 2017-05-26T09:36:52Z beach: rk[ghost]: What do you need a Lisp interpreter for? I.e., what is the next step? 2017-05-26T09:37:11Z libreman joined #lisp 2017-05-26T09:37:15Z jackdaniel: you may write CL subset compiler targetting rv32imac in CL 2017-05-26T09:37:39Z rk[ghost]: i have a Hifive1.. and i really really would prefer not to have to write C for interfacing with it.. next step is to write code for a humidity / temperature sensor.. 2017-05-26T09:38:08Z beach: rk[ghost]: My emphasis was on "interpreter". 2017-05-26T09:38:28Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2017-05-26T09:38:59Z rk[ghost]: well.. without the interpreter.. how is the board suppose to evaluate lisp code i send over UART? 2017-05-26T09:39:45Z beach: rk[ghost]: Modern Lisp systems compile on the fly. 2017-05-26T09:40:11Z jackdaniel: fwiw it may be hard to place whole compiler on the device 2017-05-26T09:40:44Z rk[ghost]: aye, so what are ya'll suggesting? 2017-05-26T09:41:16Z beach: I guess I should be quiet since I don't know what RV32IMAC is. 2017-05-26T09:42:25Z rk[ghost]: risc-v 32i (mac << you can ignore this mostly.. just specific modules) architecture 2017-05-26T09:42:35Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T09:42:42Z jackdaniel: rk[ghost]: as I've said, I'd write compiler in CL 2017-05-26T09:42:45Z jackdaniel: and compile on host machine 2017-05-26T09:42:51Z rk[ghost]: ie: not x86/arm 2017-05-26T09:43:00Z jackdaniel: (subset of CL would be probably easiest) 2017-05-26T09:43:14Z rk[ghost]: jackdaniel: so you are saying write a CL compiler.. not an interpreter? 2017-05-26T09:43:23Z jackdaniel: CL subset compiler 2017-05-26T09:43:24Z jackdaniel: yes 2017-05-26T09:43:54Z jackdaniel: and execute it on bigger machine, and ship only results to the smaller one 2017-05-26T09:44:56Z rk[ghost]: i feel that defeats the purpose.. but i may be misunderstanding you. 2017-05-26T09:46:13Z _cosmonaut_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T09:47:01Z jackdaniel: what is the purpose then? 2017-05-26T09:47:11Z beach was just about to ask. 2017-05-26T09:48:02Z rk[ghost]: well, my goal is to have live lisp code being evaluated on the Hifive1.. 2017-05-26T09:48:12Z rk[ghost]: the "host machine" might just be a keyboard.. 2017-05-26T09:48:35Z rk[ghost]: and my keyboard surely doesn't know how to compile CL subset... 2017-05-26T09:49:21Z rk[ghost]: err.. i apologize for bringing this up, but thank you all for your suggestions :) 2017-05-26T09:50:00Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T09:50:27Z jameser quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2017-05-26T09:50:51Z jackdaniel: you may put eval there and repl, that's not overly hard. My point is, that having simply interpreter on the machine won't give you much 2017-05-26T09:51:08Z rk[ghost]: aye aye. 2017-05-26T09:51:28Z jackdaniel: and it will be awfully slow and limited, while if you write compiler to run somewhere else, you could have for instance macros etc, which get compiled and uploaed into that machine 2017-05-26T09:51:56Z jackdaniel: which doesn't need to host heavy compiler and understand all constructs 2017-05-26T09:52:19Z phoe: ^ 2017-05-26T09:52:28Z rk[ghost]: my end hopes were to be able to write code like (set-pin 10 'HIGH) and such 2017-05-26T09:52:29Z phoe: you can cross-compile for that particular architecture 2017-05-26T09:52:36Z jackdaniel: if you are interested in simply running interpreter, check out uLisp, armpit scheme, microscheme - your description fits most uLisp imo 2017-05-26T09:52:41Z rk[ghost]: phoe: with what compiler? 2017-05-26T09:52:54Z rk[ghost]: jackdaniel: OK thanks. 2017-05-26T09:53:01Z phoe: rk[ghost]: with the one you write a rv32imac backend for. 2017-05-26T09:53:10Z rk[ghost]: ah, microscheme.. that sounds familair.. got that running on an AVR chip before.. 2017-05-26T09:53:16Z phoe: I don't know any already existing one though. 2017-05-26T09:53:19Z jackdaniel: rk[ghost]: then take uLisp, provide the lacking glue and don't waste time on making same thing over again 2017-05-26T09:54:28Z jackdaniel: but I'd say that in my opinion it's far from being a start for software/hardware revolution / redo in better manner 2017-05-26T09:54:46Z jackdaniel: just convenience hack to scratch the itch (i.e live coding and love for parenthesis:) 2017-05-26T09:54:50Z rk[ghost]: is there a good framework for message passing in CL? (i know there is LFE.. but since this is CL channel.. thought i would ask) 2017-05-26T09:54:51Z jackdaniel: I'll check on later 2017-05-26T09:55:07Z jackdaniel: chanl is fine, lparallel is cool (it has channels as well) 2017-05-26T09:55:20Z rk[ghost]: right-o. 2017-05-26T09:55:35Z rk[ghost]: i'll enterain the ideas. 2017-05-26T09:55:46Z jackdaniel: http://www.cliki.net/concurrency 2017-05-26T09:56:05Z rk[ghost]: any thoughts on the framework? robust or needs work? 2017-05-26T09:57:21Z rk[ghost]: cross compiling doesn't seem to work for my use case.. as that assume that the hifive1 is connected to another machine.. 2017-05-26T09:59:14Z rk[ghost]: jackdaniel: oh! this toy project for lisp interpreter on rv32imac has 0 to do with my previous statements of software/hardware revolution. 2017-05-26T10:01:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T10:03:53Z pve joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:04:05Z head|cat quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2) 2017-05-26T10:04:13Z rk[ghost]: anyhoot- thanks again for ya'lls comments. i quite understand that any of my effort is superfluous.. 2017-05-26T10:05:57Z cess11 left #lisp 2017-05-26T10:10:49Z pjb joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:11:05Z jackdaniel: that's not true, writing interpreter is a good learning experience. But if you want just some lisp on the machine, much more effective way would be porting one of the mentioned languages to your machine 2017-05-26T10:12:08Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-05-26T10:13:34Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-05-26T10:14:28Z eschatologist joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:14:42Z jackdaniel: rk[ghost]: http://www.ulisp.com/show?1OPZ 2017-05-26T10:14:50Z rk[ghost]: thanks. 2017-05-26T10:17:15Z EvW1 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:20:58Z ikopico quit (Quit: Imma make like traffic and jam) 2017-05-26T10:21:31Z ikopico joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:24:48Z frgo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T10:25:54Z m00natic joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:27:28Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T10:28:51Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:29:34Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:30:44Z yangby quit (Quit: Go out for a walk and buy a drink.) 2017-05-26T10:32:02Z heurist` joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:32:08Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T10:43:24Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:44:22Z ikopico quit (Quit: Imma make like traffic and jam) 2017-05-26T10:45:00Z ikopico joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:47:22Z loke` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T10:57:32Z TCZ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:58:32Z vydd left #lisp 2017-05-26T10:58:54Z vydd joined #lisp 2017-05-26T10:59:49Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-05-26T11:01:47Z mishoo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T11:01:58Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T11:03:39Z ikopico quit (Quit: Imma make like traffic and jam) 2017-05-26T11:03:54Z vydd left #lisp 2017-05-26T11:05:19Z mazoe quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T11:05:53Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T11:06:28Z ikopico joined #lisp 2017-05-26T11:06:29Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-26T11:10:28Z p9s quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T11:14:19Z yangby joined #lisp 2017-05-26T11:19:11Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-26T11:22:35Z prole joined #lisp 2017-05-26T11:23:44Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2017-05-26T11:25:47Z james_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T11:26:32Z prole is now known as servant 2017-05-26T11:26:36Z servant is now known as serviteur 2017-05-26T11:31:26Z james__ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T11:31:32Z james__: ; Loading "quicklisp-slime-helper" 2017-05-26T11:31:32Z james__: .................................................. 2017-05-26T11:31:32Z james__: [package swank/sbcl].; 2017-05-26T11:31:32Z james__: ; caught ERROR: 2017-05-26T11:31:34Z james__: ; READ error during COMPILE-FILE: 2017-05-26T11:31:37Z james__: ; 2017-05-26T11:31:39Z james__: ; The symbol "HOST-ENT-ADDRESS-TYPE" is not external in the SB-BSD-SOCKETS package. 2017-05-26T11:31:42Z james__: ; 2017-05-26T11:31:45Z james__: ; Line: 117, Column: 76, File-Position: 3633 2017-05-26T11:31:45Z james__ quit (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))) 2017-05-26T11:31:45Z james_ quit (K-Lined) 2017-05-26T11:32:39Z knobo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T11:34:26Z z0d: wow 2017-05-26T11:36:30Z vaporatorius quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-05-26T11:38:31Z serviteur quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.2.1)) 2017-05-26T11:45:30Z phoe: minion: memo for james__: please use pastebin or paste.lisp.org instead. 2017-05-26T11:45:31Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell james__ when he/she/it next speaks. 2017-05-26T11:51:30Z terpri joined #lisp 2017-05-26T11:53:09Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-05-26T11:55:57Z mnoonan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T12:02:56Z beach: My idea for testing the Earley-based lambda-list parsers is to create simple ad-hoc hand-written parsers with skimpy error checking, and then compare the results of applying both parser types to the same lambda list. 2017-05-26T12:05:15Z phoe: beach: so basically checking your parser against a different, simpler parser. 2017-05-26T12:05:31Z phoe: sounds good. 2017-05-26T12:05:37Z beach: Yes, that's the idea. 2017-05-26T12:06:44Z beach: It beats the alternative, which is to check that the parse tree is correct by manually parsing the input of every test case. 2017-05-26T12:10:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T12:12:03Z EvW joined #lisp 2017-05-26T12:16:25Z desku joined #lisp 2017-05-26T12:16:32Z p9s_ joined #lisp 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Well, "e.g." should be followed by a comma. 2017-05-26T16:05:02Z KZiemian: phoe: I send you more issues with CLUS 2017-05-26T16:05:23Z damke joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:06:26Z KZiemian: beach: Ok, I will note that 2017-05-26T16:07:06Z KZiemian: phoe: some are small, some are bigger and missing is almost everywhere 2017-05-26T16:09:26Z phoe: KZiemian: yes, sure thing 2017-05-26T16:09:33Z phoe: I will answer them tomorrow - today is a busy day for me 2017-05-26T16:09:50Z knobo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:10:20Z KZiemian: phoe: 2017-05-26T16:10:32Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T16:10:43Z varjag joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:10:59Z KZiemian: pheo: sure, when I get answers I try to make big checking 2017-05-26T16:13:26Z _cosmonaut_ quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2017-05-26T16:16:35Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T16:17:06Z damke_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:19:05Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T16:19:15Z damke quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-05-26T16:21:16Z sbodin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T16:21:45Z knobo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:27:01Z smoon quit (Quit: smoon) 2017-05-26T16:27:39Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T16:28:15Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:32:49Z p9s quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-05-26T16:33:25Z gko_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:36:50Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T16:37:33Z ak51 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:37:58Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:46:39Z maarhart joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:49:05Z maarhart quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-26T16:49:37Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T16:54:11Z keviv quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-05-26T16:54:28Z Guest89579 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T16:55:07Z kmb_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T16:55:29Z kmb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T16:55:30Z kmb_ is now known as kmb 2017-05-26T16:57:41Z MetaMutt joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:00:51Z KZiemian quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-05-26T17:01:19Z MrBusiness quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2017-05-26T17:03:09Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T17:06:39Z smoon quit (Quit: smoon) 2017-05-26T17:08:20Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T17:08:51Z raynold joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:09:21Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:11:21Z shka_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:11:42Z ak51 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:12:51Z EvW1 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:14:12Z MetaMutt quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com) 2017-05-26T17:14:25Z keviv joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:14:27Z MetaMutt joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:14:28Z MetaMutt quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2017-05-26T17:15:17Z MetaMutt joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:15:18Z MetaMutt quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2017-05-26T17:17:31Z MetaMutt joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:17:32Z MetaMutt quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2017-05-26T17:22:15Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:22:24Z gko_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T17:24:12Z MetaMutt joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:24:13Z MetaMutt quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2017-05-26T17:25:25Z kjak_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T17:25:27Z kjak___ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T17:25:31Z akr[m] joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:25:46Z kjak____ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T17:26:08Z akr[m]: Hello, CL noob here, can someone tell me what is going on here: https://pastebin.com/VRbTRvCa 2017-05-26T17:26:52Z MetaMutt joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:26:53Z MetaMutt quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2017-05-26T17:27:11Z dlowe: have you programmed before? 2017-05-26T17:27:16Z jackdaniel: akr[m]: CL invocation goes like (function arg1 ... argn) 2017-05-26T17:27:28Z jackdaniel: lists are composed of cons cells, where last is NIL 2017-05-26T17:27:32Z keviv quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T17:27:42Z jackdaniel: cons cell (6 . 5) isn't proper list, so can't be evaluated 2017-05-26T17:27:48Z dlowe: ... 2017-05-26T17:27:49Z jackdaniel: minion: tell akr[m] about gentle 2017-05-26T17:27:51Z minion: akr[m]: please look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 2017-05-26T17:27:54Z dlowe: akr[m]: try #clnoobs 2017-05-26T17:29:10Z akr[m]: lol 2017-05-26T17:29:12Z akr[m]: dlowe: gee, thanks 2017-05-26T17:29:54Z dlowe: akr[m]: no, I'm serious. it's specifically a learning channel. 2017-05-26T17:30:33Z akr[m]: yeah I was referring to the snarky comment about not having programmed before 2017-05-26T17:30:50Z akr[m]: I was rather confused that a simple expression that the REPL prints out would give an error when typed back 2017-05-26T17:30:51Z dlowe: akr[m]: it wasn't snarky. My answer to you would be different depending on if you have or not 2017-05-26T17:31:45Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T17:31:54Z akr[m]: well, I have programmed in about 10 languages and have a BsC. in compsci, if you really need to know 2017-05-26T17:32:20Z Bicyclidine: the repl evaluates. some values cause errors when they are evaluated. those values can of course be returned by the evaluation of some forms. 2017-05-26T17:32:49Z akr[m]: yeah, '(5 . 6) is fine 2017-05-26T17:33:35Z jackdaniel: minion: tell akr[m] about pcl 2017-05-26T17:33:36Z minion: akr[m]: please see pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 2017-05-26T17:34:39Z akr[m]: jackdaniel: thanks, I think I've already seen a few chapters from that one 2017-05-26T17:34:54Z akr[m]: (at least my browser history says so) 2017-05-26T17:36:01Z smoon quit (Quit: smoon) 2017-05-26T17:37:00Z jackdaniel: akr[m]: they explain for instance evaluation rule, you may want to reread them then 2017-05-26T17:37:55Z akr[m]: yeah, I've been having trouble understanding that one 2017-05-26T17:38:06Z ebrasca: phoe: Hi 2017-05-26T17:38:19Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2017-05-26T17:40:39Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-05-26T17:44:10Z aeth: akr[m]: foo(bar, baz, quux) in most languages becomes (foo bar baz quux) in Lisp. Lists in Lisp are really cons cells/pairs (such as '(foo . (bar . (baz . (quux . NIL))))) so the implementation is going to think that (foo . bar) is a function call. 2017-05-26T17:44:24Z aeth: And then it's going to fail because bar is not a list 2017-05-26T17:45:07Z aeth: (+ . (1 . (2 . NIL))) => 3 2017-05-26T17:45:27Z aeth: That's equivalent to (+ 1 2) but of course no one is going to write it in the verbose way above. 2017-05-26T17:46:05Z akr[m]: yeah sorry I guess I forgot that you need to quote a list if you don't want it interpreted as a function call 2017-05-26T17:47:33Z atgreen joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:48:25Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-05-26T17:48:49Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:51:30Z phinxy joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:53:00Z bigos joined #lisp 2017-05-26T17:55:04Z damke_ quit (Quit: quit) 2017-05-26T18:00:02Z aeth: Yes, but it's not obvious that (foo . bar) is a list, i.e. (listp '(foo . bar)) => T 2017-05-26T18:00:21Z aeth: because in the other sense of a list (in CL, "proper list") it's not: (alexandria:proper-list-p '(foo . bar)) => NIL 2017-05-26T18:00:32Z dddddd_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T18:00:39Z phoe: ebrasca: Hey 2017-05-26T18:00:42Z phoe: I have to run now 2017-05-26T18:00:56Z pjb: akr[m]: the thing is that code is data, but not all data is lisp code. 2017-05-26T18:00:58Z phoe: aeth: what do you mean by "list"? 2017-05-26T18:01:07Z phoe: a list in a CL sense is (or null cons) 2017-05-26T18:01:25Z phoe: so yes, (listp (cons foo bar)) ;=> T 2017-05-26T18:01:29Z dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T18:01:37Z pjb: akr[m]: (cons 5 6) is a list of 3 elements: cons, 5 and 6. It's built with 3 cons cells, the last one being (6 . nil). 2017-05-26T18:02:06Z pjb: akr[m]: the list (cons 5 6) can be interpreted as a lisp function application: call the function named cons with 2 arguments: 5 and 6. So this works. 2017-05-26T18:02:18Z aeth: phoe: What I mean is that in some languages (such as Scheme) a "list" is what CL calls a "proper list". So it's one of those things where the CL-specific terminology must be learned. 2017-05-26T18:02:32Z pjb: akr[m]: but the cons cell (5 . 6) cannot be interpreted as anything in lisp. 5 is not the name of an operator. Dotted lists are not lisp source forms. 2017-05-26T18:02:58Z pjb: akr[m]: so you have : class data; class code is subclass of data. but not the reverse! 2017-05-26T18:04:00Z pjb: akr[m]: now, if you consider that eval actuall accepts the cons cell as input (it will just behave predictably by generating an error, which may be what you want), you can still consider that (5 . 6) is code, that when evaluated will generate this error. 2017-05-26T18:04:00Z akr[m]: pjb: that makes sense 2017-05-26T18:04:04Z paule32 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T18:04:12Z pjb: akr[m]: it's a question of where you put the cursor. 2017-05-26T18:04:50Z akr[m]: I wouldn't say that (5 . 6) is well-typed code :P 2017-05-26T18:04:58Z paule32: hello, is it possible to cut the W- from W-STORE ? 2017-05-26T18:05:21Z pjb: (error "foo") is a lisp form. Its evaluation signals an error. (5 . 6) is also a lisp form whose evaluation signals an error. ;-) 2017-05-26T18:05:51Z pjb: akr[m]: you can establish a type theory that takes into account non-local exits, including errors. 2017-05-26T18:06:22Z pjb: akr[m]: some languages declare exceptions in function signatures: void foo(int) throws NullPointer; // stuff like that. 2017-05-26T18:06:41Z pjb: void foo(int) throws TypeError; would be a different type of function… 2017-05-26T18:07:01Z paule32: haskel 2017-05-26T18:07:04Z paule32: grrr 2017-05-26T18:07:08Z Bicyclidine: i'd say (+ 'a) is not well-typed code, and (5 . 6) is not an object of type valid-form, i guess 2017-05-26T18:07:37Z keviv joined #lisp 2017-05-26T18:07:52Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T18:08:01Z pjb: Notice how sbcl actually signals a type-error on 6, instead of a program-error on (5 . 6). 2017-05-26T18:09:04Z ``Erik quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T18:09:59Z pjb: (handler-case (5 . 4) (error () 'yay) (:no-error (&rest ignore) 'pas-glop)) with ccl: #| ERROR: While compiling an anonymous function : In the form (5 . 4), 5 is not a symbol or lambda expression. |# 2017-05-26T18:10:09Z pjb: but with sbcl, it's just a warning, and it returns YAY. 2017-05-26T18:10:31Z kushal- joined #lisp 2017-05-26T18:10:51Z pjb: Anyways, the point here is that (5 . 4) is not a valid form indeed, if you put it in the source, the compiler should signal an error, so it won't be executed (even to signal an error). 2017-05-26T18:10:53Z ``Erik joined #lisp 2017-05-26T18:11:08Z pjb: But (eval '(5 . 4)) is different :-) 2017-05-26T18:11:49Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp 2017-05-26T18:12:05Z pjb: There are differences between a CL interpreter and a CL compiler that are accepted, even if the standard tries to minimize the semantic differences between both kind of implementation. 2017-05-26T18:12:48Z akr[m]: pjb: thanks for all the details, that's helpful 2017-05-26T18:19:15Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T18:25:29Z Grue` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T18:25:43Z Bock quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T18:26:17Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__) 2017-05-26T18:33:26Z paule32: hello 2017-05-26T18:33:33Z paule32: i have following code: http://codepad.org/aw4tB4px 2017-05-26T18:34:08Z paule32: is it possible to minimize the code (because words will grow) 2017-05-26T18:34:16Z paule32: in a list? 2017-05-26T18:35:03Z paule32: ( ("Auto" 3) ("Person" 1") ) 2017-05-26T18:39:50Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T18:41:14Z enzuru joined #lisp 2017-05-26T18:43:10Z ak51 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T18:48:31Z paule32: (print (second (list (quote("Maus" 10)) (quote("Tweety" 22))))) 2017-05-26T18:48:36Z paule32: that is cool 2017-05-26T18:51:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T19:02:40Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-05-26T19:03:24Z sz0 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:05:42Z whoman: yes 2017-05-26T19:08:03Z pjb: paule32: gzip code.lisp 2017-05-26T19:09:02Z pjb: paule32: even: bzip2 -9 code.lisp 2017-05-26T19:09:58Z whoman: ~_~ 2017-05-26T19:10:09Z whoman: paule32, do you need them as strings? 2017-05-26T19:10:26Z paule32: http://paste.lisp.org/display/347545 2017-05-26T19:11:16Z paule32: the end-line-1 i get nil 2017-05-26T19:11:21Z pjb: read them from a file! 2017-05-26T19:12:55Z whoman: (setq wordtable '(("Auto" . 3) ("Person" . 2) ("Unternehmen" . 1))) 2017-05-26T19:13:16Z pjb: paule32: you forgot: (setf (gethash 3 wordtable) 'not-nil) 2017-05-26T19:14:35Z atgreen joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:15:48Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T19:15:53Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T19:16:08Z pjb: paule32: you have to ask yourself the question: why do you want a hash-table? 2017-05-26T19:16:33Z paule32: for big dictionary 2017-05-26T19:16:43Z paule32: for AI research 2017-05-26T19:16:47Z pjb: Not what for. WHY? 2017-05-26T19:17:07Z paule32: when i get the string "what is a firm" 2017-05-26T19:17:24Z paule32: then i would to prolog like AI 2017-05-26T19:17:26Z pjb: Why not a list or a vector? 2017-05-26T19:17:33Z paule32: to slow 2017-05-26T19:17:37Z pjb: ok. 2017-05-26T19:18:26Z pjb: So it's a good choice. But where does the size of your code enter the scene then? Reducing the size of the code won't make queries to the hash-table faster. 2017-05-26T19:18:47Z pjb: In anycase, think about reading the words from an external file. 2017-05-26T19:18:54Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:19:12Z paule32: i have identation to break down data 2017-05-26T19:19:19Z paule32: so a circle have number 2 2017-05-26T19:19:20Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:19:30Z paule32: an rectangle 4 2017-05-26T19:19:35Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T19:19:56Z ak51 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:20:09Z paule32: together, it can be a tree 2 + 4 = 6 so the system knows now a tree build with 2 + 4 2017-05-26T19:22:09Z paule32: ("Tweety" 22) 2017-05-26T19:22:09Z paule32: 3 2017-05-26T19:22:09Z paule32: 3 2017-05-26T19:22:09Z paule32: NOT-NIL 2017-05-26T19:22:20Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T19:22:30Z paule32: this is the output of using your code pjb 2017-05-26T19:22:46Z pjb: Yay! It works nicely, as you asked: not nil! 2017-05-26T19:23:56Z paule32: i prefer to output Auto 2017-05-26T19:24:42Z pjb: If you can write down all those preferences and rules, you would get your program written for you… 2017-05-26T19:27:08Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-05-26T19:27:37Z kmb quit (Quit: kmb) 2017-05-26T19:27:40Z pjb: For example, if you were able to say that you wanted to write in your source code the list of words and numbers, and have it magically used to fill a hash-table so that you can query the words or the numbers, then you would have just to write that in lisp instead of English and have your program done. 2017-05-26T19:28:13Z orivej quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T19:28:15Z pjb: (magically-fill-hash-table wordtable '("Auto" 3 "Person" 2 "Unternehmen" 1 …)) 2017-05-26T19:28:50Z pjb: (defun magically-fil-hash-table (table pairs) (loop for (a b) on pairs by (function cddr) while a do (setf (gethash a table) b (gethash b table a)))) 2017-05-26T19:41:02Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T19:46:29Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T19:50:03Z MrSleepy joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:50:36Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:51:14Z akkad: so this channel is just for the ANSI lisp, and not the IEEE lisp? 2017-05-26T19:52:08Z pjb: Yes. 2017-05-26T19:52:25Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:52:28Z pjb: I don't know anybody knowing about such a IEEE Lisp. 2017-05-26T19:52:36Z pjb: There's an ISO Lisp. 2017-05-26T19:52:44Z pjb: Better ask in ##lisp 2017-05-26T19:53:23Z neoncontrails joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:54:03Z MrSleepy: I am looking for book recommendations I have already read "practical common lisp" and "land of lisp" I want to get even better and learn the language even deeper. Can anybody recommend me another book? If this is the wrong place to ask just lemme know where I should ask please. 2017-05-26T19:54:04Z akkad: ## is by definition the Freeware equivalent of # 2017-05-26T19:54:22Z akkad: MrSleepy: for pragmatic uses CLR is great 2017-05-26T19:54:29Z dlowe: ## has a distinct meaning on freenode 2017-05-26T19:54:31Z akkad: and more up to date. 2017-05-26T19:54:31Z pjb: MrSleepy: PAIP has a good chapter on CL. 2017-05-26T19:54:45Z akkad: PAIP is pretty much 100% cl no? 2017-05-26T19:54:46Z pjb: MrSleepy: otherwise you may be interested in CLR. 2017-05-26T19:54:53Z pjb: akkad: yes. 2017-05-26T19:55:37Z MrSleepy: I found paip pretty quickly what does CLR stand for in this context? 2017-05-26T19:55:47Z akkad: common lisp recipes 2017-05-26T19:55:51Z akkad: only like a year old 2017-05-26T19:55:56Z MrSleepy: akkad, I see 2017-05-26T19:56:16Z akkad: much more up to date for day to day uses of packages that exist. or ECLHS 2017-05-26T19:56:57Z MrSleepy: these both look really awesome 2017-05-26T19:57:52Z pierpa joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:59:12Z akkad: CLR won't go into internals, but is a great reference for doing real things. 2017-05-26T19:59:43Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:59:43Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2017-05-26T19:59:43Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2017-05-26T19:59:45Z paule32: whoman: your code dont work 2017-05-26T19:59:57Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T20:01:59Z shka_: hello 2017-05-26T20:02:31Z shka_: i'm looking for help with my documentation 2017-05-26T20:02:49Z shka_: namely, i want to check if people can actually understand it 2017-05-26T20:02:57Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T20:03:00Z shka_: anybody want to read it? 2017-05-26T20:04:55Z akkad: sure. 2017-05-26T20:05:13Z pierpa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T20:05:48Z paule32: whoman: sorry, all right 2017-05-26T20:07:43Z Tex_Nick joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:10:31Z shka_: https://uploadfiles.io/hkyz0 2017-05-26T20:10:48Z shka_: akkad: just please, don't roast me without mercy 2017-05-26T20:11:18Z pjb: Sorry, I don't see any documentation there, only violet buttons on some strange web page. 2017-05-26T20:11:25Z shka_: my English is not perfect by any stretch of imagination ;-) 2017-05-26T20:11:49Z shka_: pjb: it is compressed html, i don't have it online, yet 2017-05-26T20:11:59Z pjb: ok. 2017-05-26T20:12:09Z shka_: you can build it yourself, if you prefer it this way 2017-05-26T20:12:14Z warweasle quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1) 2017-05-26T20:12:32Z pjb: ok, nice css. 2017-05-26T20:13:41Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__) 2017-05-26T20:13:42Z pjb: There are typoes such as: beetween -> between 2017-05-26T20:14:08Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T20:14:12Z shka_: pjb: codex can produce visually appealing documents 2017-05-26T20:14:12Z pjb: empty-p should be emptyp 2017-05-26T20:14:50Z pjb: wordp multiple-word-p something-else-wordp 2017-05-26T20:15:30Z shka_: right 2017-05-26T20:15:36Z shka_: i get that 2017-05-26T20:15:51Z pjb: stringp simple-string-p but string-lessp 2017-05-26T20:16:06Z pjb: (string)p (simple-string)p string(lessp) 2017-05-26T20:16:19Z shka_: i understand 2017-05-26T20:16:44Z shka_: … i really prefer scheme style ;-) 2017-05-26T20:16:46Z pjb: @b (Side effects): remaining. 2017-05-26T20:17:36Z pjb: Yes, but it is amongst the systems that can't put the right spacing before and after lists… 2017-05-26T20:17:51Z pjb: "Side effencts:" 2017-05-26T20:18:28Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T20:19:02Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T20:19:21Z shka_: pjb: i'm correcting this in real time btw 2017-05-26T20:20:12Z MrSleepy quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-05-26T20:20:44Z EvW joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:23:10Z shka_: pjb: btw, perhaps you could recommend me some other documentation tool? 2017-05-26T20:23:42Z pjb: No, the output looks nice. I would recommend some spelling and grammatical corrector. 2017-05-26T20:24:09Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2017-05-26T20:24:09Z shka_: yes, this is a must :D 2017-05-26T20:24:16Z shka_: don't hate me for that 2017-05-26T20:24:17Z pjb: Revise it and check for syntactical errors susch as this @b (Side Effects) (I assume you don't want the space after @b?) 2017-05-26T20:24:25Z shka_: it is a work in progress 2017-05-26T20:24:42Z shka_: you assume correctly 2017-05-26T20:24:44Z kmb joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:25:10Z shka_: anyway, thanks 2017-05-26T20:25:21Z shka_: your input is useful 2017-05-26T20:25:33Z shka_: especially about -p 2017-05-26T20:26:14Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2017-05-26T20:28:25Z yeticry_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:28:26Z oleo joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:31:17Z paule32: when i work with list's, they must have 2 items? (itemA itemB) ? 2017-05-26T20:31:47Z paule32: ("Auto" . (1 . 1)) 2017-05-26T20:31:53Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T20:32:19Z paule32: the output is ("Auto" (1 . 1)) 2017-05-26T20:32:46Z pjb: nope. 2017-05-26T20:32:53Z paule32: is that right? 2017-05-26T20:33:02Z pjb: ' ("Auto" . (1 . 1)) #| --> ("Auto" 1 . 1) |# 2017-05-26T20:33:15Z paule32: yes 2017-05-26T20:33:17Z paule32: sorry 2017-05-26T20:33:28Z pjb: lists can have any number of elements. 2017-05-26T20:33:36Z pjb: Better to work consistenly with proper-lists. 2017-05-26T20:33:49Z paule32: so, i can't use ("Auto" . 1 . 2) ? 2017-05-26T20:33:55Z pjb: ("Auto" (1 . 1)) or ("Auto" 1 1) 2017-05-26T20:34:03Z pjb: ("Auto" . 1 . 2) is invalid syntax. 2017-05-26T20:34:38Z pjb: This doesn't correspond to any standard lisp literal object. Implementations may interpret as something specific to the implementation. (But none is known to do so, they all signal an error). 2017-05-26T20:35:30Z paule32: ah ok 2017-05-26T20:35:46Z paule32: i test it, now 2017-05-26T20:35:48Z paule32: (print (second (first wordtable))) 2017-05-26T20:36:05Z paule32: give me "w" 2017-05-26T20:36:06Z paule32: ("Auto" . ("w" . 1)) 2017-05-26T20:36:08Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:36:35Z paule32: so, i don't need the points ? 2017-05-26T20:36:51Z pjb: paule32: and when you look at a brick, you could also instead look at the set of atoms composing this brick. And why not even the set of quarks composing the atoms composing the brick! 2017-05-26T20:37:00Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T20:37:18Z pjb: It's a question of abstraction layer. 2017-05-26T20:37:19Z paule32: hui 2017-05-26T20:37:38Z pjb: The thing that is surprising is that in lisp, we let the abstraction layer leak, so we may pun. 2017-05-26T20:38:02Z pjb: Ie. we can use functions of a different abstraction layer to process data. 2017-05-26T20:38:38Z pjb: (cadr (list 1 2 3)) is an example of such punning. It should be (second (list 1 2 3)) or (cadr (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil)))) to stay consistent. 2017-05-26T20:38:54Z pjb: use endp instead of null when processing lists. 2017-05-26T20:40:35Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T20:40:57Z shka_: pjb: one more thing, aside from my poor English, do you consider this documentation to be overall useful, would you add something or put additional conventions? 2017-05-26T20:41:08Z pjb: If you use lists of lists: ((a 1) (b 2) (c 3)) then using (cadar lol) instead of (second (first lol)) is such punning. It may be more efficient (or not, a modern compiler would generate exactly the same code). But the second matches beter the abstraction level of lists. 2017-05-26T20:42:12Z pjb: shka_: when there are too many typoes or other low-level errors like it has, I'm distracted, and cannot read the documentation. Correct it, and try again later. (But I won't be able to concentrate on it now, perhaps somebody else?). 2017-05-26T20:42:19Z scymtym joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:42:44Z shka_: pjb: ok, sure, i just need some time to do that 2017-05-26T20:42:55Z paule32: may be i realize it wrong, but some things modernizations of same old code, so (list "w" . 1) seems the equal/same as ("w" . 1) <-- here without the (list 2017-05-26T20:43:11Z shka_: writing proper English is effort for me 2017-05-26T20:43:24Z pjb: Then write the documentation in French or in Spanish! 2017-05-26T20:43:36Z shka_: pjb: how it would be useful? 2017-05-26T20:43:37Z pjb: paule32: dotted lists are never lisp forms. 2017-05-26T20:43:38Z paule32: sorry, i have only school english 2017-05-26T20:43:50Z pjb: shka_: I can read French or Spanish even better than English! 2017-05-26T20:44:04Z pierpa joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:44:25Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__) 2017-05-26T20:44:26Z shka_: you speak three languages? 2017-05-26T20:44:45Z pjb: Yes. I can also do baby talk in Russian and German. 2017-05-26T20:44:56Z shka_: wow, nice 2017-05-26T20:45:01Z shka_: i am impressed 2017-05-26T20:45:06Z paule32: haha 2017-05-26T20:45:10Z paule32: brabbel 2017-05-26T20:45:29Z pjb: It's not impressive, it's rather lame compared to what our forefather could do. 2017-05-26T20:45:45Z pjb: They had Latin and Greek! 2017-05-26T20:46:03Z paule32: hai caiser 2017-05-26T20:46:08Z shka_: well, i can't even speak in my own tongue properly :P 2017-05-26T20:46:34Z whoman: no one can until they learn a secondary+ 2017-05-26T20:47:00Z pjb: Truth. 2017-05-26T20:47:27Z akr[m] left #lisp 2017-05-26T20:48:01Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:50:51Z aeth: Romance languages are cheating. 2017-05-26T20:51:11Z aeth: Although, it's the right programmer-style kind of shortcut. 2017-05-26T20:52:05Z aeth: One should learn Latin, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian, etc. It's the road to impressive multilingualism. No one needs to know that they're so similar. 2017-05-26T20:52:42Z aeth: I should add Catalan to that list. 2017-05-26T20:53:42Z aeth: It's like knowing Lisp Machine Lisp, Common Lisp, several Schemes, Racket, etc. Close enough that you can just focus on learning the differences. 2017-05-26T20:54:00Z neoncontrails quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T20:54:34Z neoncontrails joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:57:05Z LiamH: Lisp 1.5 = Latin 2017-05-26T20:57:11Z kjak_ joined #lisp 2017-05-26T20:59:14Z neoncontrails quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T21:01:51Z whoman: mhm, dialects ish 2017-05-26T21:01:51Z aeth: Emacs Lisp = the Catholic Church's contemporary Latin 2017-05-26T21:02:14Z aeth: I guess Common Lisp is probably Italian. 2017-05-26T21:02:31Z aeth: Racket is probably French. 2017-05-26T21:03:28Z pjb: No, ISO Lisp is French. 2017-05-26T21:03:30Z whoman: one day i was curious to map out programming languages by their most closest natural languages 2017-05-26T21:03:47Z edgar-rft: Lisp 0.1 = 2017-05-26T21:04:09Z aeth: Scheme is probably Spanish, with each Scheme being a different country's local dialect. 2017-05-26T21:04:16Z whoman: ocaml being very french from france actual 2017-05-26T21:04:49Z whoman: CL = british eh ~_~ 2017-05-26T21:05:03Z aeth: Clojure is English 2017-05-26T21:05:14Z aeth: It pretends sometimes that it's a Romance language. 2017-05-26T21:05:39Z nacci: elisp = ebonics? 2017-05-26T21:06:17Z aeth: No, elisp is liturgical Latin. A relic from a past era, but in its modern form heavily influenced by Italian (i.e. Common Lisp) 2017-05-26T21:06:29Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER) 2017-05-26T21:07:11Z whoman: hebrew haskell, arabic erlang,, hmm 2017-05-26T21:07:28Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T21:08:52Z aeth: Haskell is probably a Germanic language, since ML is somewhat related to Lisp and Haskell is in that family. (Here, Romance is the Lisp family and Germanic is I guess the ML family) 2017-05-26T21:09:02Z aeth: Now it makes sense why Clojure is English, too. 2017-05-26T21:09:28Z keviv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T21:09:39Z xaotuk joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:10:11Z whoman: sanskrit ~ 2017-05-26T21:10:38Z whoman: romance and germanic are different? i am not knowledgable about latin/roman 2017-05-26T21:11:02Z whoman: greek and hebrew can be quite evangelical if ur interested 2017-05-26T21:11:23Z aeth: whoman: Romance languages are like French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, etc. Germanic languages are like German, Swedish, Danish, Dutch, etc. English is a Germanic language with a ton of Romance language vocabulary. 2017-05-26T21:12:17Z paule32: give it a possibility to get the name that the user type in directly from the hash table? 2017-05-26T21:12:20Z jdz joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:12:47Z paule32: or must i iterate the list 2017-05-26T21:14:22Z whoman: aeth, oohhh, i see! i thought it was all bunched up into the same =) is russian and polish and slavik on a different 'category'? 2017-05-26T21:15:39Z aeth: whoman: Most European languages are distantly related, coming from Proto-Indo-European. Slavic (or is it Balto-Slavic?) is the third big group in Europe. There are more in Asia, too. 2017-05-26T21:17:03Z aeth: whoman: So in this analogy, Lisp 1.5 is like Latin because it's the dead language that predates all of the Lisp language family, just like Latin comes before the Romance languages. 2017-05-26T21:17:05Z whoman: we forgot c/c++/java/c# ~ 2017-05-26T21:17:36Z whoman: that makes sense. and sometimes we see it in fraternities and monetary coins 2017-05-26T21:19:25Z xaotuk1 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:21:01Z aeth: whoman: In this analogy, the languages related to C are probably the Sino-Tibetan languages or something. (This includes the Chinese languages.) Very popular, but not related to Lisp. 2017-05-26T21:21:25Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-05-26T21:21:25Z xaotuk1 is now known as xaotuk 2017-05-26T21:23:28Z orivej joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:24:30Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-05-26T21:33:52Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-05-26T21:35:07Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:38:49Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:39:10Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T21:39:27Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2017-05-26T21:41:39Z pve quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2017-05-26T21:41:59Z rk[ghost] joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:43:01Z sondr3 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:48:08Z sondr3 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T21:49:32Z trocado joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:49:37Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2017-05-26T21:51:21Z pacha joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:53:40Z paule32: why is T a string? 2017-05-26T21:53:56Z paule32: i know atoms are 0 or 1 as digits/numbers 2017-05-26T21:54:13Z aeth: (typep T 'string) => NIL 2017-05-26T21:54:19Z aeth: Can you rephrase your question? 2017-05-26T21:54:45Z MrBusiness joined #lisp 2017-05-26T21:54:56Z paule32: i have freakkie with code about 20 minutes to get the answer by my self: 2017-05-26T21:55:21Z paule32: i did: (if (= txt T) ... ) 2017-05-26T21:55:40Z paule32: where txt is a string "hello" 2017-05-26T21:55:56Z paule32: clisp present me T is not a number 2017-05-26T21:56:07Z shka_: paule32: because T is not a number 2017-05-26T21:56:12Z aeth: = is the test for numeric equality 2017-05-26T21:56:14Z shka_: T is a symbol 2017-05-26T21:56:18Z paule32: i did: (if (string= txt T) ...) and get ok 2017-05-26T21:56:23Z aeth: = exists so you can do something like (= 0 0f0) and get the T you expect. 2017-05-26T21:56:41Z Bicyclidine: string= operates on "string designators". T is a symbol, but can be used as a shortcut for the string "T". 2017-05-26T21:57:00Z paule32: ok 2017-05-26T21:57:25Z aeth: Another example: (string= 'hello "HELLO") 2017-05-26T21:57:39Z paule32: F 2017-05-26T21:57:46Z paule32: nil 2017-05-26T21:57:57Z paule32: because they not same 2017-05-26T21:58:19Z Bicyclidine: did you actually try it? 2017-05-26T21:58:26Z aeth: They are the same. CL upper-cases things by default. Unless you've changed that, they are the same. If you want the lower case form, you have to use || 2017-05-26T21:58:30Z aeth: (string= '|foo| "foo") 2017-05-26T21:58:34Z paule32: no , (string-equal for case insensitive 2017-05-26T21:58:51Z paule32: the no goes to Bicyclidine 2017-05-26T21:59:13Z aeth: A lot of your questions can be avoided by trying to think up simple test cases and running them in the REPL. 2017-05-26T21:59:15Z Bicyclidine: if you try it you will find that aeth is correct 2017-05-26T22:00:04Z paule32: dont worry, i test some of your code here, but the problem is, you are so fast ;-) 2017-05-26T22:00:51Z aeth: paule32: There were two ways CL could have introduced backwards compatibility with historical Lisps without being case-insensitive. They could downcase 'FOO to 'foo or they could upcase 'foo to 'FOO. They chose the latter, which is more compatible but also more confusing. 2017-05-26T22:01:18Z aeth: Almost all of the ugliness and confusion in CL is for historical, compatibility reasons. 2017-05-26T22:01:37Z paule32: you right 2017-05-26T22:01:53Z paule32: but lisp is very big 2017-05-26T22:02:13Z paule32: so finding information makes me dont feel good 2017-05-26T22:02:53Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T22:03:03Z paule32: why? i search internet, show chat, test code .... and make coffee breaks that all in my spare time 2017-05-26T22:03:25Z paule32: so don't cry when i not understand all 2017-05-26T22:03:33Z paule32: i will give my best 2017-05-26T22:04:03Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T22:05:00Z dmiles joined #lisp 2017-05-26T22:06:01Z warweasle joined #lisp 2017-05-26T22:06:56Z edgar-rft is ugly for non-historical reasons 2017-05-26T22:06:58Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T22:10:30Z warweasle quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-26T22:17:09Z paule32: http://codepad.org/murH8WeM 2017-05-26T22:17:22Z binario joined #lisp 2017-05-26T22:17:26Z binario: hello 2017-05-26T22:17:46Z paule32: how can i break the loop, so print OK is ok, and the next program steps follows 2017-05-26T22:18:23Z paule32: why? i would like save parse time by iterate the list 2017-05-26T22:19:04Z rk[ghost] quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T22:19:18Z pjb: paule32: you could break this loop by reading a good tutorial about CL, or the Hyperspec. 2017-05-26T22:19:47Z pjb: paule32: type: /msg specbot clhs loop RET and go read the url it gives you 2017-05-26T22:20:27Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T22:20:29Z pjb: paule32: find tutorials referenced at http://cliki.net/Online+Tutorial 2017-05-26T22:21:02Z pjb: paule32: also, I would advise clhs if 2017-05-26T22:21:14Z pjb: You don't know the basic lisp syntax, so there's no hope for you. 2017-05-26T22:24:24Z aeth: paule32's native language doesn't seem like English. Maybe there's a tutorial in whatever language paule32 speaks natively? 2017-05-26T22:24:43Z aeth: Most of the programming resources are in English, though. 2017-05-26T22:24:55Z paule32: i start a pdf 2017-05-26T22:24:56Z Lowl3v3l: aeth: english is the bare minimum for a programmer. you can't get around it. So better learn it now ;) 2017-05-26T22:25:40Z aeth: Fortunately, it's much easier to become literate in a language than it is to speak it. I can read French. I can't hold a conversation in French. 2017-05-26T22:25:53Z pjb: http://cliki.net/Online+Tutorial also lists tutorials and introduction university courses in French and Portuguese. 2017-05-26T22:26:15Z aeth: ah 2017-05-26T22:26:39Z pjb: I've seen a small one in Spanish, but it's not referenced there… 2017-05-26T22:28:58Z d4ryus1 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T22:29:43Z aeth: A Spanish speaker could probably follow along with the Portuguese tutorial much more easily than an English one. 2017-05-26T22:31:08Z aeth: Portuguese <-> Spanish has quite a lot of simple transformations like -ção <-> -ción 2017-05-26T22:31:23Z atgreen joined #lisp 2017-05-26T22:31:28Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5) 2017-05-26T22:32:15Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T22:33:34Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-05-26T22:34:34Z aeth: There's probably enough introductory material to get by in French or German or Russian. 2017-05-26T22:34:58Z aeth: Or Japanese. 2017-05-26T22:35:31Z aeth: You'd need to know English eventually, but not to start out. 2017-05-26T22:36:27Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2017-05-26T22:37:38Z rk[ghost] joined #lisp 2017-05-26T22:40:46Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-26T22:40:55Z paule32: ok sleeptime ... 2017-05-26T22:51:54Z rk[ghost] quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T22:51:58Z unbalancedparen joined #lisp 2017-05-26T22:52:28Z rk[ghost] joined #lisp 2017-05-26T22:52:40Z aeth: One thing that helped me when I was first starting out was retyping other people's code when going through things like tutorials and books. Some people copy and paste. This is imo bad because you don't build the muscle memory and you don't notice every small detail. 2017-05-26T22:52:52Z akkad: reading portuguese is easy 2017-05-26T22:52:58Z akkad: no so easy to listen to 2017-05-26T22:53:49Z aeth: Written languages are much more conservative than their spoken forms because spelling reforms don't happen anywhere near as often enough as they should (especially in certain languages, like English and French). 2017-05-26T22:54:26Z aeth: Someone who only knew written Latin could probably understand most of written French. 2017-05-26T22:57:16Z aeth: Fortunately, for programming, most of the good material is written down. 2017-05-26T22:58:31Z rk[ghost] quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2017-05-26T23:00:41Z binario quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2017-05-26T23:02:11Z wildlander joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:03:19Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-26T23:10:20Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:10:51Z bigos quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T23:19:30Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:23:58Z rk[ghost] joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:25:33Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T23:26:05Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:30:17Z p9s quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-26T23:31:47Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-26T23:35:06Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:36:36Z edgar-rft: aeth: the problem is that for programming, the multiple amount of shitty material is written down, too 2017-05-26T23:38:55Z Lowl3v3l quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2017-05-26T23:40:23Z wol joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:41:43Z slyrus joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:44:14Z wol quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-26T23:45:05Z sabrac joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:47:10Z yangby quit (Quit: Go out for a walk and buy a drink.) 2017-05-26T23:48:57Z jleija joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:48:59Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-26T23:49:36Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-26T23:53:57Z p9s quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-26T23:54:57Z sabrac quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2017-05-26T23:55:40Z sabrac joined #lisp