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2017-05-25T00:04:05Z akkad: ccl has microseconds
2017-05-25T00:06:03Z akkad: pookleblinky: (let ((btime (get-internal-real-time)) (etime (get-internal-real-time))) (format t "Delta is ~a~%" (/ (float (- etime btime)) (float internal-time-units-per-second))))
2017-05-25T00:06:04Z akkad:  
2017-05-25T00:06:20Z akkad: pookleblinky: that's portable
2017-05-25T00:08:25Z akkad: pookleblinky: http://zeniv.linux.org.uk/~ober/report.html has numbers from cl-bench. pretty recent
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2017-05-25T00:19:07Z pookleblinky: akkad: ah, thanks
2017-05-25T00:20:41Z akkad: np
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2017-05-25T01:27:38Z vsync: _death: cool, thanks... so frustrating because I have a vague mental image of a specific PDF or two and some Web pages, that laid it out in a specific way, just can't find any of them
2017-05-25T01:27:39Z vsync: oh well
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2017-05-25T02:04:01Z vsync: what's a good name for a function to find a thing that exists, or make it if it doesn't, or return the thing?
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2017-05-25T02:04:33Z pjb: (or (find thing where) default)
2017-05-25T02:04:58Z vsync: ok, let me rephrase
2017-05-25T02:05:01Z pjb: Do you want to keep your default?
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2017-05-25T02:05:47Z vsync: it's not a function but an operation... i'm defining several operations that will have different implementations and substeps each, and will take paths depending on state at runtime and the arguments
2017-05-25T02:05:58Z pjb: If you make and keep it for next time, and you use some parameters to make it, then it's an "intern" operation.
2017-05-25T02:06:23Z vsync: so one of them involves making it or not, depending, but it's one high-level step from user's point of view (though not transparent to them)
2017-05-25T02:06:45Z vsync: hmm, was thinking intern but didn't know if that could apply generically
2017-05-25T02:07:17Z pjb: your:intern-thing, not cl:intern
2017-05-25T02:07:22Z vsync: yeah of course
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2017-05-25T02:07:36Z vsync: there's also "acquire" which has the nice ring of being a term of art apparently
2017-05-25T02:07:42Z vsync: "patient acquisition" (medical)
2017-05-25T02:07:50Z vsync: but don't know if that implies interning or new pts only
2017-05-25T02:08:10Z pjb: acquire is good for resources that can then be released.
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2017-05-25T02:08:15Z pjb: like locks ;-)
2017-05-25T02:08:31Z vsync: if i can find a nice syntax to make (with-patient (pt-designator) ...) work you know I will
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2017-05-25T02:09:00Z vsync: acquire is also nice because it can be acquiring a handle on the patient for the session, or acquiring new info about the patient
2017-05-25T02:09:11Z vsync: I think the overloading works in my favor on that one
2017-05-25T02:09:37Z pjb: when you have acquire/release, it'll be more often hidden in a with- macro.
2017-05-25T02:10:05Z vsync: yeah... though in this case there may not be a corresponding release
2017-05-25T02:10:59Z vsync: ok, now how about making an empty thing that will be later filled in and possibly actually used
2017-05-25T02:11:02Z pjb: What if another thread wants to work with the same patient?
2017-05-25T02:11:15Z pjb: hash-tables are convenient.
2017-05-25T02:11:15Z vsync: i know MAKE-INSTANCE calls INITIALIZE-INSTANCE.....
2017-05-25T02:11:44Z pjb: or shared-initialize if you expect change-class…
2017-05-25T02:12:47Z vsync: well MAKE-INSTANCE calls INITIALIZE-INSTANCE which calls SHARED-INITIALIZE
2017-05-25T02:12:57Z vsync: but i was looking to it more for naming convention
2017-05-25T02:13:23Z vsync: trying to remember what the thing that makes the completely empty instance given to initialize-instance is called
2017-05-25T02:13:59Z vsync: hmm ALLOCATE-INSTANCE according to CLtL2
2017-05-25T02:14:19Z pjb: still exists
2017-05-25T02:14:24Z pjb: clhs allocate-instance
2017-05-25T02:14:24Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_alloca.htm
2017-05-25T02:14:26Z pjb: Good night.
2017-05-25T02:14:44Z vsync: i assumed so... just happened to have that page open
2017-05-25T02:14:49Z vsync: thanks for being a sounding board
2017-05-25T02:14:51Z vsync: cheers
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2017-05-25T02:31:09Z tgips: hi, does ANSI INCITS 226-1994 (R2004) is  "no technical implications"
2017-05-25T02:31:09Z tgips:         with ANSI INCITS 226-1994(08/12/1994)
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2017-05-25T02:57:39Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-05-25T02:57:55Z beach: vsync: Do you mean this one: http://metamodular.com/protocol.pdf
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2017-05-25T02:59:15Z beach: tgips: What are those?
2017-05-25T03:00:00Z vsync: beach: may not have seen this before but yes "protocol classes" and the explanation is exactly what I was thinking of
2017-05-25T03:01:02Z vsync: beach: what's it from?
2017-05-25T03:01:27Z beach: From one of my many unfinished books.  This one is on CLOS programming.
2017-05-25T03:02:45Z vsync: and now that I have that phrase, it seems CLIM was probably my prototypical example, which feels very familiar
2017-05-25T03:02:56Z vsync: beach: that looks like it would be a good book
2017-05-25T03:03:01Z beach: Thanks.
2017-05-25T03:03:35Z beach: I did finally "get" object-oriented programming in CLOS when I read the CLIM II specification.  I had red Keene's book before, but that was not enough.
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2017-05-25T03:24:06Z tgips: beach: hi,i found a nice pdf version about Standard on plant lisp by Currell Berry.and i want to konw, whether it's much difference between r2004 version and r1994 version。
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2017-05-25T03:25:04Z beach: tgips: This channel is dedicated on Common Lisp, and for Common Lisp there is only one standard, from 1994.
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2017-05-25T03:26:55Z sausages: for my project in SBCL I have many, many different defstructs that have some members that are of type FUNCTION.  For purposes of letting DESCRIBE easily remind my forgetful self what-lambda-functions-should-take-what-parameters for anything using these structs (and maybe hopefully giving more hints to the compiler's optimizer as a possible bonus), I want to more strictly define the types of these as not
2017-05-25T03:27:01Z sausages: just vague FUNCTION but  (function (param-type-1 param-type-2 ... param-type-n) return-type).  Seems to work OK defining such structs from the REPL and from SLIME, but during an actual block-compile SBCL gives me "Function types are not a legal argument to TYPEP".  Is there perhaps a "proper" way to go about this?
2017-05-25T03:27:03Z akkad: THE lisp
2017-05-25T03:27:07Z sausages: whoa, sorry didn't think that would make two messages haha
2017-05-25T03:27:23Z akkad: anyways since the standard is not free, as in opensource, you should be using ##lisp
2017-05-25T03:28:13Z tgips:  yes, does that changed after revised 2004
2017-05-25T03:29:05Z Bike: sausages: that's interesting, do you have a reduced example maybe?
2017-05-25T03:29:07Z beach: tgips: There is no revision of the Common Lisp standard in 2004.
2017-05-25T03:29:25Z sausages: Bike, I can whip one up real quick.  gimme a few mins...
2017-05-25T03:29:45Z tgips: beach: https://infostore.saiglobal.com/en-au/Standards/ANSI-INCITS-226-1994-R2004--706351/ then does this ?
2017-05-25T03:29:47Z Bike: I think slot :type should be okay with something that's not allowed for typep, but i'm not sure.
2017-05-25T03:30:42Z tgips: akkad: sorry.
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2017-05-25T03:31:33Z beach: tgips: It must be only cosmetic changes.  The standard has not been revised or altered.
2017-05-25T03:33:15Z tgips: beach: ok, thanks very much.
2017-05-25T03:36:17Z beach: Sure.
2017-05-25T03:36:19Z sausages: Bike:  http://paste.lisp.org/display/347450
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2017-05-25T03:36:57Z Bike: ok, and to get the error?
2017-05-25T03:36:58Z beach: tgips: Mainly, we consider the Common Lisp HyperSpec to be *the* standard, modulo some typos that "everybody knows about".
2017-05-25T03:36:59Z sausages: this works OK at the REPL, or doing C-c C-k from SLIME, but via an actual compile is when that TYPEP error happens
2017-05-25T03:37:18Z sausages: oh wait
2017-05-25T03:37:28Z sausages: ... not happening on THIS file, what the heck
2017-05-25T03:38:41Z tgips: beach: ok, got that.
2017-05-25T03:39:16Z beach: sausages: You can't use TYPEP with a function type specifier if that's what you are trying to do.
2017-05-25T03:39:24Z Bike: If I have (defstruct foo (bar #'identity :type (function (t)))) then there are no problems compiling, (make-foo) works, (make-foo :bar #'+) works (because the type check is impossible), and (make-foo :bar 7) signals the proper error of "7 is not a (function (t))"
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2017-05-25T03:39:43Z Bike: and yeah you can't type check functions with that much detail, though it may help the optimizer
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2017-05-25T03:40:43Z beach: sausages: Maybe I am wrong, but it looks like a situation where it would be more advantageous to use standard classes and generic functions, instead of what you are doing.  No?
2017-05-25T03:41:23Z sausages: converting everything to use CLOS instead of structs would take a very, very long time.  I've been working on this for almost 5 years
2017-05-25T03:42:44Z sausages: it isn't too important, I just like how DESCRIBE helps me remember things I tend to forget often, and that would have been helpful to define more strictly what parameters a struct's lambda functions are expected to have
2017-05-25T03:43:13Z beach: sausages: What project is it that you are working on?
2017-05-25T03:43:23Z sausages: a Wizardry-style dungeon crawler
2017-05-25T03:43:56Z beach: It might be possible to do the conversion gradually.
2017-05-25T03:44:33Z beach: Seriously, using generic functions and standard classes can make the code much more understandable.
2017-05-25T03:44:44Z sausages: the fact that it's not reproducing this error on this example file I made makes me wonder if it's something else causing the TYPEP error in my actual project
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2017-05-25T03:54:58Z sausages: but yeah I probably will use CLOS next time I embark on something like this
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2017-05-25T03:56:40Z beach: sausages: You are already using CLOS.  You can't use Common Lisp without using CLOS.  The difference is between using structure classes or standard classes, and between using ordinary functions and generic functions.
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2017-05-25T05:29:13Z antoszka: whoever runs the lispjobs.wordpress.com blog please add https://www.accenture.com/fi-en/careers/jobdetails?id=00479172_en :)
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2017-05-25T06:45:20Z knobo: I'd like to learn someting about garbage collection and generations.
2017-05-25T06:45:34Z knobo: does sbcl have any documentation
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2017-05-25T06:45:37Z knobo: on that
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2017-05-25T06:46:07Z easye: knobo: the best way to understand those aspects of SBCL would be to read the source.
2017-05-25T06:46:38Z beach: knobo: In general, or specifically for SBCL?
2017-05-25T06:47:02Z knobo: Mostly sbcl
2017-05-25T06:47:15Z knobo: I have a memory problem in my application
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2017-05-25T06:47:40Z beach: What kind of memory problem?
2017-05-25T06:48:21Z knobo: I'm just beginning to look in to it. some of the images grows to more than 400Mb of resident memory
2017-05-25T06:48:45Z knobo: Looks like dexador is the sinner.
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2017-05-25T06:50:03Z knobo: maybe i should run gc after dex
2017-05-25T06:50:12Z knobo: manually
2017-05-25T06:51:04Z knobo: what would (gc :full t :gen 0) or (gc :full t :gen 6) or just (gc) do differently
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2017-05-25T06:52:40Z knobo: The images goes down do about 180Mb after gc.
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2017-05-25T06:55:10Z knobo: one image is now 490mb. unfortunatly i dont have a repl on it.
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2017-05-25T09:28:06Z jackdaniel: was there any take in to create a virtual filesystem for CL (with virtual pathnames), so one could have bundled resources yet treat them as files? #P"virtual:images;foo.bmp"
2017-05-25T09:28:14Z jackdaniel: s/take in/take/
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2017-05-25T09:28:57Z jackdaniel: (I did some search and I haven't found anything)
2017-05-25T09:29:13Z jackdaniel: or maybe it is a bad idea to have such thing (why?)
2017-05-25T09:30:11Z jackdaniel: such file could be baked by a vector for instance or by a function which produces data
2017-05-25T09:30:25Z whoman: it sounds like a great and very useful idea. does UIOP do anything like this?
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2017-05-25T09:32:51Z jackdaniel: I believe it would need implementation support and can't be implemented as a library
2017-05-25T09:34:27Z phoe: ^
2017-05-25T09:34:55Z phoe: the implementation's file access primitives would need to be updated to support such a virtual filesystem
2017-05-25T09:35:28Z phoe: so that all standard functions that deal with files can work with the FS.
2017-05-25T09:35:54Z phoe: what can be done, though, is implementing this as a library in portable CL that does *not* use these file-based primitives
2017-05-25T09:36:15Z phoe: and then export an API that is compatible with the one used for files in portable CL.
2017-05-25T09:36:51Z phoe: this way, implementors will have an easy way of using this new implementation of the filesystem.
2017-05-25T09:37:33Z jackdaniel: phoe: that's called gray streams. I'm talking about plugging new kind of files into already existing systems, so they "just work"
2017-05-25T09:38:05Z phoe: jackdaniel: not only gray streams. you need to provide a lot of functions that also deal with directory structure, file existence, etc..
2017-05-25T09:38:42Z whoman: that sounds like a lot of work. what about using an existing virtual filesystem like in-memory..?
2017-05-25T09:38:43Z phoe: and I already said it - you need to modify the Lisp implementation file-accessing primitives, so they know how to handle this "new kind of files".
2017-05-25T09:39:17Z phoe: whoman: then you need to create this filesystem outside of Lisp, which might not be possible on some platforms.
2017-05-25T09:39:26Z whoman: ah, true~
2017-05-25T09:39:31Z jackdaniel: modifying them isn't much bigger issue than proposing new interface for everyone to use, but gain is bigger
2017-05-25T09:39:43Z whoman: that makes me think of emacs and buffers
2017-05-25T09:39:44Z phoe: modifying, how?
2017-05-25T09:40:33Z jackdaniel: what do you mean "how?" - implementations have extensions, writing new one isn't a technical problem, more a question whenever other implementation will adapt such thing
2017-05-25T09:41:20Z jackdaniel: but it's easier to convince limited number of implementers to add extension than to convince limitless number of users to *always* use your new api
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2017-05-25T09:41:41Z phoe: that's what I meant actually.
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2017-05-25T09:41:58Z phoe: you export the API from your virtual extension module so the implementors can hook into it.
2017-05-25T09:42:19Z phoe: the users are not really meant to use it directly, except for maybe telling the Lisp image that they want to use the virtual filesystem and how they want to use it.
2017-05-25T09:42:27Z phoe: the rest is hidden in the http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_files.htm functions.
2017-05-25T09:42:54Z phoe: and perhaps in parts of http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/c_stream.htm as well.
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2017-05-25T09:43:29Z whoman: does it need to be complicated? honestly i would bundle resources by turning binary into lisp forms and then reference them in a named tree structure like alist or plis
2017-05-25T09:43:40Z phoe: but now that I think of it, the "how they want to use it" part can be abstracted away either. pathnames, anyone?
2017-05-25T09:44:04Z phoe: you could surely use a properly formatted pathname to use the virtual filesystem.
2017-05-25T09:44:36Z jackdaniel: phoe: I think you bring more confusion here with your hyped ideas. I'm asking about feasibility and whenever there is some work already done in that direction
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2017-05-25T09:44:48Z phoe: hyped? wtf
2017-05-25T09:45:37Z phoe: I'm just describing a module implementing a virtual filesystem, written in portable Common Lisp, that can be then used by implementors to plug it into their CL systems.
2017-05-25T09:45:41Z jackdaniel: you start to talk about libraries, portable cl, propose pathnames, interfaces, primitives, hooks - various implementation details
2017-05-25T09:46:15Z whoman: caffeine overshot =P
2017-05-25T09:46:30Z phoe: feasibility? I'd dig it. already existing work: I haven't heard of it.
2017-05-25T09:47:16Z jackdaniel: sadly someone who might have heard of it won't see the question due to high noise/signal ratio ;-) see you later
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2017-05-25T09:52:09Z phoe: jackdaniel: http://informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/future/vfs/
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2017-05-25T10:00:42Z phoe: pjb: how does this implementation work?
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2017-05-25T10:07:21Z pjb: phoe: it's not complete yet.
2017-05-25T10:07:52Z pjb: phoe: it's a pure CL (no Gray Stream) implementation of the I/O system, storing files and directories in memory (hash-tables, vectors).
2017-05-25T10:08:17Z phoe: so this is what jackdaniel seems to need.
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2017-05-25T10:08:37Z pjb: Nowadays, I know Gray Streams, and I would probably use them for this, since it would be much more practical (both for the implementer and for the user of vfs).
2017-05-25T10:09:37Z pjb: jackdaniel: the virtual pathnames are implemented IIRC.   You would just need to hook the I/O stuff onto a Gray Stream, and it would work in a day or too, I guess.
2017-05-25T10:10:47Z pjb: Then, there are COPY-FILE functions, you would need perhaps a COPY-DIRECTORY function, and you could load resources from the external file system to the VFS easily.  Don't forget to save your image ;-)
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2017-05-25T10:19:18Z jackdaniel: Thanks, I'll study your code. Do you have documentation for it?
2017-05-25T10:19:30Z jackdaniel: did you consider to write CDR?
2017-05-25T10:20:35Z jackdaniel: in ECL it would have native implementation (performance reasons), I'm mostly interested in API
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2017-05-25T10:26:27Z pjb: No other documentation than the sources.
2017-05-25T10:27:08Z jackdaniel: ack, thanks
2017-05-25T10:27:18Z pjb: Take it from git: https://framagit.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/tree/master/future/vfs
2017-05-25T10:27:26Z jackdaniel: bookmarked
2017-05-25T10:27:41Z jackdaniel: do you know about any other vfs proposal for CL?
2017-05-25T10:28:00Z jackdaniel: and the CDR question above :-)
2017-05-25T10:28:49Z pjb: Never heard of anything else like this.  Well, there are flexi-streams to read and write binary streams to vectors.  That's all.
2017-05-25T10:31:03Z pjb: If you want to add a VFS to an implementation, it'll be easier since you already have the implementation I/O infrastructure to hook into.
2017-05-25T10:31:57Z pjb: So you only need virtual-fs.lisp, filenames.lisp and parts of files.lisp, basically.
2017-05-25T10:33:10Z jackdaniel: yes, as I've said I'm mostly interested in looking at the API
2017-05-25T10:33:38Z pjb: Internal API then.  Since otherwise, it's the CL API that is implemented.
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2017-05-25T10:34:39Z jackdaniel: create-file-at-pathname is example
2017-05-25T10:35:00Z jackdaniel: s/at-pathname/at-path/
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2017-05-25T10:40:19Z pjb: Yes, you need to define a file system with it's own API (you could also use a POSIX-like API if you wanted).
2017-05-25T10:41:16Z pjb: Or use an API like FUSE, so you could eventually fork out to FUSE.
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2017-05-25T10:41:49Z jackdaniel: yes, that's something to think about. thank you for hints
2017-05-25T10:42:03Z pjb: I don't remember if FUSE existed when I worked on this VFS, but it would definitely be a good idea to study it.
2017-05-25T10:42:53Z jackdaniel: I will
2017-05-25T10:43:12Z jackdaniel: we also have a library cl-fuse (I think that's the name), I'll see what API it proposes
2017-05-25T10:43:16Z jackdaniel: for Lisp world
2017-05-25T10:43:20Z pjb: yep.
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2017-05-25T10:44:28Z pjb: Also, I remember somebody worked on a FUSE file system implemented in CL that gave access to the CL package from the linux command line (it would map CL functions to unix commands in the FUSE VFS).
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2017-05-25T10:44:44Z pjb: You could find references to it in news:comp.lang.lisp.
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2017-05-25T15:21:32Z JuanDaugherty: i wonder why cliki is saying gbbopen is a distributed systems framework?
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2017-05-25T15:21:52Z JuanDaugherty: http://cliki.net/Distributed
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2017-05-25T15:23:39Z JuanDaugherty: i assume it's just equivocation of "distributed control problem" with "distributed system framework" as the latter would make sense with the other stuff on that page
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2017-05-25T16:44:23Z azrazalea: So i'm slowly inducting a co-worker into Common Lisp via evangelism. I mentioned the idea that functions (libraries and standard) tend to return useful things that might be useful unlike some other languages where the same function might return nothing or a boolean. However, for the life of me i'm brain farting on examples to link to. Can someone help me out?
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2017-05-25T16:47:37Z Bike: i'm not sure what you mean. functions return things in most languages, that's why they're called "functions" rather than "subroutines"
2017-05-25T16:47:53Z fe[nl]ix: azrazalea: (parse-integer "dg" :radix 16 :junk-allowed t)
2017-05-25T16:48:19Z azrazalea: Bike: Well, i'm getting the idea from one of the beginner books I read years ago. Either practical common lisp or another
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2017-05-25T16:50:08Z azrazalea: Basically in the author's opinion Common lisp programmers tend to return things instead of just writing "void" functions which is common in many other languages. I think part of that is the combination of implicit return and considering most things truthy though
2017-05-25T16:50:23Z pjb: azrazalea: well, the think is that in CL there are non-local exits.
2017-05-25T16:51:03Z pjb: error, cerror, signal, invoke-restart, throw, return-from, etc.
2017-05-25T16:51:05Z Bike: cl functions can return multiple values and signal errors, so the C pattern of passing in a pointer to get its value mutated while the function itself returns a boolean is right out
2017-05-25T16:51:43Z pjb: and furthermore, CL functions can return multiple values, so again, it's not usual to mutate the arguments (unless you're doing OO).
2017-05-25T16:53:40Z Bike: but i mostly haven't seen that outside of C and sometimes C++ anyway, you know?
2017-05-25T16:54:18Z pjb: azrazalea: if you want to explode the brains of C programmers, show them: (block foo (mapcar (lambda (x) (if (zerop x) (return-from foo 'zero)) (1+ x)) '(1 2 3 0 5 6))) #| --> zero |#
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2017-05-25T16:59:36Z sukaeto: azrazalea: are you thinking of something like member?
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2017-05-25T17:02:23Z azrazalea: That's an example yeah
2017-05-25T17:02:38Z |3b|: digit-char-p returns the value of the digit as the 'true' value
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2017-05-25T17:05:09Z |3b|: PRINT and similar return the value being printed
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2017-05-25T17:16:27Z azrazalea: Anyone know https://github.com/dptd btw? I want them to put a license on their stuff so I can use it in good conscience.
2017-05-25T17:16:37Z azrazalea: I opened an issue two weeks ago but no response
2017-05-25T17:17:34Z azrazalea: (they have a slack bot and slack client lib and i'd rather not implement the slack client myself just cause i'm lazy)
2017-05-25T17:17:57Z fortitude: when using a package-inferred system, are files not eagerly loaded?
2017-05-25T17:18:20Z fortitude: I'm trying to debug something in qlot, and a bunch of import packages don't seem to be created until after you've called a function from the main package
2017-05-25T17:18:37Z fortitude: *important
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2017-05-25T17:22:43Z fortitude: never mind, qlot is doing strange things to self-load that package at run-time
2017-05-25T17:22:51Z fortitude: that's an hour I'll never get back :/'
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2017-05-25T17:26:53Z |3b|: azrazalea: .asd files say "MIT" (at least the ones i looked at)
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2017-05-25T17:30:54Z azrazalea: |3b|: Ah, should still have a LICENSE file for legal mojo but that's probably good enough to let me use it
2017-05-25T17:31:07Z azrazalea: Thanks, didn't see that!
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2017-05-25T17:40:35Z fourier: azrazalea: frankly speaking, returning stuff is a common in all languages. in haskel/ml family of languages which support pattern matching you can return things like Maybe which could either contain value or not. In c++ you have similar boost::optional/c++17 optional for the same stuff. what I can't easily find similar in other languages is return multiple values.
2017-05-25T17:43:08Z Xach: some lisp interfaces accept pre-allocated things to mutate. like the bit-* functions.
2017-05-25T17:43:26Z Bike: oh, that's true. i used that the other day even...
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2017-05-25T17:45:53Z fourier: If I have a function which has couple of guardians on entrance, is it ok to implement them like (when (something) (return-from myfunc))? there are some calculations in between so i can't really easily use (cond ..)
2017-05-25T17:48:54Z Xach: fourier: you could (unless (something) <body>)
2017-05-25T17:49:03Z Xach: I don't like return-froms very much
2017-05-25T17:49:13Z fourier: Xach: yes i know, it is the same pattern though
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2017-05-25T17:49:42Z Xach: Is it?
2017-05-25T17:49:52Z fourier: hm not really.
2017-05-25T17:50:21Z fourier: it is also need to return something, not just (return-from myfunc). rather (return-from myfunc myintermediateresult)
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2017-05-25T17:50:45Z Xach: Ok, that is a twist.
2017-05-25T17:51:41Z Grue`: damn, I was about to suggest to use AND
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2017-05-25T17:52:34Z dlowe: fourier: (if (thing-needs-returning) my-intermediate-result (rest-of-calculation and parameters))
2017-05-25T17:52:35Z fourier: cond + and + setq helps sometimes, yes. but i got a feeling what it make code harder to read
2017-05-25T17:53:10Z fourier: dlowe: yes but it will lead to mulptiple if-if-if statements making code harder to read
2017-05-25T17:53:15Z dlowe: no it won't
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2017-05-25T17:53:35Z dlowe: rest-of-calculation here is another function
2017-05-25T17:54:22Z fourier: hm i'm not really fond of having functions which are used only once
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2017-05-25T17:56:56Z Bike: so your code is something like if [condition], result, else do some other stuff and then another test, repeat?
2017-05-25T17:57:37Z fourier: yep
2017-05-25T17:58:15Z Bike: i'd just use returns then, personally
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2017-05-25T18:13:06Z fourier: this is when what i'll continue to use...
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2017-05-25T20:43:16Z _death: since you're asking for style advice, my advice is to not care about functions being used only once
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2017-05-25T21:04:05Z jasom: I don't care about functions being used only once; I'd much rather read (frobnicate-the-foo) than 50 lines that aren't obvious that they frobnicate the foo.  However I still think return-from is fine IF the structure of your body doesn't lend itself to e.g COND
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2017-05-25T21:04:57Z phoe: how do I update a single dist in quicklisp?
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2017-05-25T21:05:09Z _death: ql:update-dist?
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2017-05-25T21:05:21Z phoe: (ql:update-dist "ironclad") fails for me.
2017-05-25T21:05:34Z _death: that is not a dist
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2017-05-25T21:07:12Z jasom: phoe: "quicklisp" is a dist; ironclad is a system in the quicklisp dist.
2017-05-25T21:07:39Z _death: jasom: I don't have a bad response to return-from, but following the one-function rule usually shows the better way that happens to eliminate it..
2017-05-25T21:07:46Z jasom: phoe: if you want finer grained version dependencies, either create your own dist or try something like qlot
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2017-05-25T21:08:05Z phoe: okay, a different question
2017-05-25T21:08:11Z phoe: how do I upgrade ironclad?
2017-05-25T21:08:36Z _death: phoe: I would clone it into local-projects
2017-05-25T21:08:47Z jasom: phoe: (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") <-- will update *everything* in quicklisp, *or* drop a newer version of ironclad into local-projects
2017-05-25T21:09:03Z phoe: jasom: I want to explicitly upgrade only ironclad.
2017-05-25T21:09:09Z phoe: so I think I'll clone it into local-projects then.
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2017-05-25T22:26:23Z JuanDaugherty: do I correctly understand planetlisp, cliki, and whatever ql gets to be the massed lisp greatness at this point, the equiv of hackage, et al.?
2017-05-25T22:26:37Z JuanDaugherty: (lisp = cl)
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2017-05-25T22:41:28Z whoman: JuanDaugherty, reword ?
2017-05-25T22:41:42Z JuanDaugherty: do you know of other repos current?
2017-05-25T22:41:53Z whoman: just quicklisp and melpa/elpa
2017-05-25T22:42:01Z JuanDaugherty: (besides github)
2017-05-25T22:42:27Z JuanDaugherty: emacs is not cl
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2017-05-25T22:48:17Z whoman: github is not repo
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2017-05-25T22:49:41Z JuanDaugherty: it's more of a repo than emacs is a lisp
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2017-05-25T22:57:51Z pillton: phoe: Have you had a look at http://ipfs.io?
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2017-05-25T22:59:41Z pillton: It would be cool to have support for that.
2017-05-25T23:00:39Z pillton: It would be even better if the environment of a lisp implementation was stored in ipfs.
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