2017-05-17T00:00:08Z White_Flame: axion: mostly in #clasp, unless you mean physically?
2017-05-17T00:00:11Z krator44: i'm actually looking at the most reliable way thats why i'm thinking of embedding CL into C++ (as a scripting language)
2017-05-17T00:01:03Z axion: White_Flame: Haven't heard from him in a while, and I was mistaken to think that his Github activity has stalled...only Clasp
2017-05-17T00:01:09Z White_Flame: krator44: depends on if you ever want to deal with C++-isms across that boundary
2017-05-17T00:03:02Z krator44: White_Flame: ideally not
2017-05-17T00:04:58Z krator44: i'm gonna provide a well-defined io for the lisp program which will deal with the hardware not at all
2017-05-17T00:05:53Z White_Flame: in theory, you can just use ECL as a C library
2017-05-17T00:05:59Z White_Flame: I'm no ECL or CLASP expert, though
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2017-05-17T00:08:12Z krator44: the other way is to build a cffi library for cl to link against (or use an existing one)
2017-05-17T00:09:03Z krator44: but the scripting way sounds more reliable
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2017-05-17T00:11:04Z White_Flame: I don't quite understand what you mean by "reliable"
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2017-05-17T00:12:51Z krator44: uh.. portable robust not as bug prone simple to write and maintain
2017-05-17T00:13:46Z White_Flame: robust is going to depend on ECL more than anything
2017-05-17T00:13:52Z White_Flame: portable is probably covered
2017-05-17T00:14:12Z White_Flame: any FFI is going to have you writing some amount of boilerplate to write & maintain
2017-05-17T00:14:37Z White_Flame: so I don't see the various options as being all that different in terms of "reliable"
2017-05-17T00:15:41Z krator44: yea i dont see much of a difference either
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2017-05-17T00:16:09Z drmeister: axion: Hello
2017-05-17T00:16:38Z axion: drmeister: Oh hi, just checking that you're alive and clasp is still kicking :)
2017-05-17T00:16:52Z White_Flame: drmeister, krator44 wants to embed ecl into C++
2017-05-17T00:17:12Z drmeister: axion: Yes.
2017-05-17T00:18:36Z krator44: well i'm considering that
2017-05-17T00:18:55Z drmeister: krator44: Clasp is A CL written in C++ and designed to interoperate with C++ on every level.
2017-05-17T00:20:56Z krator44: its a complete rewrite of CL?
2017-05-17T00:21:59Z krator44: see i dont know if i need like.. complete interoperation with C++..
2017-05-17T00:22:29Z drmeister: It's ECL CL source code and a rewrite of the C core in C++
2017-05-17T00:22:49Z drmeister: It's designed to work with exception handling, classes, virtual functions - all that.
2017-05-17T00:23:53Z drmeister: That being said, it's new and still under development.
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2017-05-17T00:26:56Z krator44: it sounds good in principle for someone that needs that
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2017-05-17T02:26:49Z phf: hello, is there a lisp interpreter similar to siod or tinyscheme but with semantics closer to common lisp? i.e. an naive interpreter in a couple of hundred lines of readable c, where whatever functionality is available, it behaves closer to common lisp standard
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2017-05-17T02:27:36Z Bike: unlikely. lisp is pretty big and most shrinkings wouldn't run much portably
2017-05-17T02:28:07Z ben_vulpes: is there some obvious thing i'm missing as to why a handler-bind around a generic method implementation would fail to catch the signaled error or condition?
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2017-05-17T02:28:36Z Bike: it probably does not handle the condition. if your handler doesn't transfer control, the error will just continue up.
2017-05-17T02:32:16Z ben_vulpes: Bike: thing is, same exact handler-bind /inside/ the generic function handles the condition
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2017-05-17T02:32:28Z Bike: paste some code?
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2017-05-17T02:35:31Z ben_vulpes: Bike: http://paste.lisp.org/display/346911
2017-05-17T02:36:46Z Bike: yeah, should invoke the restart either way
2017-05-17T02:37:22Z ben_vulpes: except for how it doeeessssnnnn't
2017-05-17T02:37:27Z ben_vulpes: whatever at least i know what's going on now
2017-05-17T02:37:35Z ben_vulpes: maybe because implicit definition of generic?
2017-05-17T02:37:39Z ben_vulpes at a total loss
2017-05-17T02:37:59Z ben_vulpes: whatever, not a big deal now that i know why it won't go.
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2017-05-17T02:56:08Z emaczen: How would I handle the equivalent of a ccl:no-applicable-method-exists when using a different compiler? Does there exist another condition type? nothing jumped out at me.
2017-05-17T02:56:11Z emaczen: in the documentation.
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2017-05-17T03:05:42Z borei: just to make sure, when i add object to hashtable (or probably in any collection object) lisp will NOT create new object - is it true statement ?
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2017-05-17T03:12:31Z didi: What is the appropriate forum to ask more complex questions?
2017-05-17T03:12:32Z pillton: Yes. It won't create a new object.
2017-05-17T03:12:46Z didi: Or rather, longer ones.
2017-05-17T03:13:16Z borei: didi: this channel is super !
2017-05-17T03:13:20Z pillton: clhs no-applicable-method
2017-05-17T03:13:20Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_no_app.htm
2017-05-17T03:13:24Z didi: borei: No doubt!
2017-05-17T03:13:27Z pillton: emaczen: no-applicable method
2017-05-17T03:14:11Z borei: pillton: thanks for confirmation.
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2017-05-17T03:16:01Z Bike: didi: you can put it in a paste with code and link it here.
2017-05-17T03:16:40Z pillton: borei: The only instances which can be implicitly copied are instances of numbers and characters.
2017-05-17T03:17:21Z pillton: See the notes section of the following link
2017-05-17T03:17:22Z pillton: clhs eq
2017-05-17T03:17:23Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_eq.htm
2017-05-17T03:17:29Z didi: Bike: Hum. I need to write the message onto the paste too. I feel I don't understand the problem properly so I can be succinct.
2017-05-17T03:17:39Z Bike: that's what i meant.
2017-05-17T03:17:59Z didi: oic
2017-05-17T03:18:03Z didi: Thank you.
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2017-05-17T03:29:26Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2017-05-17T05:34:08Z jackdaniel: krator44: ecl works fine when embedded in cxx application, you have to compile it with -with-cxx flag
2017-05-17T05:34:38Z jackdaniel: check out EQL5 for a very cool example doing that
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2017-05-17T05:41:40Z CLIM_Wizard: test test test
2017-05-17T05:41:55Z CLIM_Wizard: wtf messages show at the stop of the page?
2017-05-17T05:44:53Z CLIM_Wizard: beach: around?
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2017-05-17T05:45:38Z beach: I am.
2017-05-17T05:46:17Z CLIM_Wizard: beach: how do you feel about CLIM-web.
2017-05-17T05:46:33Z beach: I don't know what it is.
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2017-05-17T05:52:25Z John[Lisbeth]: (if common-lisp-has-lexical-scoping nil (query-channel "How do I do lexical scoping with setf in common lisp"))
2017-05-17T05:52:56Z beach: John[Lisbeth]: It is good that Common Lisp has lexical scoping then.
2017-05-17T05:53:06Z John[Lisbeth]: such convenience thanks
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2017-05-17T05:54:25Z emaczen: How do I ask the user for input in a restart-case?
2017-05-17T05:57:23Z pjb: John[Lisbeth]: that's the point! You don't! This is why you're told not to use setf to create new variables! Use LET!
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2017-05-17T05:58:54Z pjb: emaczen: by adding an :interactive clause.
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2017-05-17T05:59:23Z pjb: emaczen: clhs restart-case there's an example!
2017-05-17T06:00:22Z emaczen: pjb: the food example?
2017-05-17T06:01:41Z emaczen: pjb: I was searching 'use-value' for some reason and never found it
2017-05-17T06:02:00Z pjb: yes, the food example.
2017-05-17T06:07:35Z beach: pjb: 16.08.10:18:41:29 <John[Lisbeth]> but I understand let in lisp now
2017-05-17T06:11:39Z pjb: I missed it.  Good.
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2017-05-17T06:12:16Z beach: My point is that advice won't make a difference.
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2017-05-17T06:41:13Z jackdaniel: I'm  writing template manager as CLIM application (using cl-emb) and thinking about syntax for adding arbitrary templates. http://paste.lisp.org/display/346920 ← I'd appreciate comments on this syntax draft
2017-05-17T06:41:41Z jackdaniel: #>END … END is a heredoc reader, it may be replaced with simple strings
2017-05-17T06:44:22Z beach: Last time I read the ASDF manual, it said to define systems in ASDF-USER.
2017-05-17T06:45:51Z jackdaniel: yes, content in #> END ... END is just example of template content, I mean define-template macro syntax, which signature is (defmacro define-template (name (&rest params) description &rest file-clauses ...)
2017-05-17T06:46:28Z beach: Oh, so you want comments on the define-template syntax?
2017-05-17T06:46:35Z beach: I see.
2017-05-17T06:47:07Z jackdaniel: yes, it's just a draft, it will be a macro used to define templates for the abovementioned manager
2017-05-17T06:47:18Z beach: Got it.
2017-05-17T06:47:47Z jackdaniel: each file-clause is (file-name file-content), in both cl-emb markers may be used
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2017-05-17T07:13:42Z splittist: jackdaniel: if you can special-case the Readme.org version, do you really need the heredoc stuff in the other cases?. If you treated the first line as the file name it wouldn't need to be quoted. (Although then you couldn't have filenames with #\newlines...)
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2017-05-17T07:16:10Z jackdaniel: splittist: I don't want to have reader problems but I want syntax highlight. Consider file-clause body accessing package which isn't created
2017-05-17T07:16:22Z jackdaniel: ("file.lisp" xxx::foo)
2017-05-17T07:17:29Z jackdaniel: also user may want to have in template something like #.(if …) , this has to be quoted as well, because otherwise it will be simply executed by a reader
2017-05-17T07:18:15Z jackdaniel: basically it is (file-name . forms-evaluating-to-strings), so you may simply put "(? @var name ?)" there, without heredoc
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2017-05-17T07:19:02Z jackdaniel: or "(defsystem ... :description \"my description\" ...)"
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2017-05-17T07:20:33Z jackdaniel: or, even more sensibly (alexandria:read-file-into-string "name-lisp.emb")
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2017-05-17T07:32:49Z splittist: jackdaniel: fair enough. I guess my rate of starting new projects is such that I don't have a feel for the pain points... Climacs2 will, of course, solve all the syntax highlighting problems (:
2017-05-17T07:34:13Z jackdaniel: heh
2017-05-17T07:34:58Z jackdaniel: thanks for reading it
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2017-05-17T07:38:39Z beach: splittist: Of course! :)
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2017-05-17T07:42:35Z beach: But there is a major design flaw in Second Climacs.  Since people prefer to have their Common Lisp implementation unstable and unsafe (and if it isn't, they will work hard to make it that way), they also don't want their editor to crash when their Common Lisp implementation does.
2017-05-17T07:42:36Z beach: Therefore, they demand that the editor and the Common Lisp system execute in different processes.  But I have no plans to implement such a thing.
2017-05-17T07:42:53Z shrdlu68: Good morning #lisp
2017-05-17T07:43:01Z beach: Hello shrdlu68.
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2017-05-17T09:32:29Z John[Lisbeth]: I want to pop the value off the end of a list
2017-05-17T09:33:57Z beach: John[Lisbeth]: Sorry to hear that.
2017-05-17T09:34:09Z John[Lisbeth]: you should be happy for me it is a very fun experience
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2017-05-17T09:34:38Z z0d: John[Lisbeth]: you don't mean removing NIL, right?
2017-05-17T09:34:40Z jackdaniel: it won't be efficient with lists in CL. try: (setf *list* (nreverse *list*)) (pop *list*) (setf *list* (nreverse *list*))
2017-05-17T09:34:59Z John[Lisbeth]: reversing the list seems silly
2017-05-17T09:35:07Z jackdaniel: popping last element of list is silly, yes
2017-05-17T09:35:18Z edgar-rft: John[Lisbeth]: it's very costly in Lisp to access the last element in a list. It's better to use a tailor-made data structure for that (FIFO or doubly-linked lists etc.)
2017-05-17T09:35:40Z John[Lisbeth]: you know perhaps I should use an array
2017-05-17T09:35:59Z John[Lisbeth]: w8 no I cant
2017-05-17T09:36:24Z John[Lisbeth]: because the source of the list is something like this '(this is my list)
2017-05-17T09:36:37Z jackdaniel: (prog1 (car (last *list*)) (setf *list* (butlast *list*))) ; is another way to do this
2017-05-17T09:36:54Z John[Lisbeth]: eh I have given up on popping the last item of the list tho
2017-05-17T09:36:56Z John[Lisbeth]: thanks anyway
2017-05-17T09:37:29Z John[Lisbeth]: I figured out a better way anyway
2017-05-17T09:38:40Z edgar-rft: we figured out before :-)
2017-05-17T09:38:43Z beach: jackdaniel: (pop (cdr (last *list* 2)))
2017-05-17T09:39:02Z beach: Some additional tests required, I know.
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2017-05-17T09:40:46Z _death: nbutlast
2017-05-17T09:42:05Z beach: Right you are.
2017-05-17T09:42:08Z beach: Missed that one.
2017-05-17T09:42:33Z jackdaniel: _death: but nbutlast doesn't return that last element
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2017-05-17T09:43:29Z jackdaniel: (fwiw I have somewhere util nbutlast* which returns two values, where the second is the reminder)
2017-05-17T09:43:34Z _death: jackdaniel: I see
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2017-05-17T09:50:14Z beach: jackdaniel: My version does though, but it only works if the list has at least three elements, of course.
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2017-05-17T09:51:25Z _death: two elements
2017-05-17T09:51:53Z beach: Yes, two.
2017-05-17T09:52:05Z beach: Thanks.
2017-05-17T09:52:48Z _death: etypecase to the rescue
2017-05-17T09:53:47Z beach: It also needs to be a macro, like POP, so that it can take a place.
2017-05-17T09:55:01Z jackdaniel: beach: yeah, your version is a winner ;)
2017-05-17T09:55:17Z _death: but as jackdaniel said, it's silly so should pick a better data structure
2017-05-17T09:57:45Z beach: I totally agree.
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2017-05-17T10:15:53Z jackdaniel: my first common lisp program (project at university) did excessively use lists what resulted in a terrible performance
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2017-05-17T10:18:28Z _death: btw it can also be a last-like operator that can serve as a place, so you could (pop (list-end list))
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2017-05-17T10:19:37Z jackdaniel: you'd have to tie it to the list (so it's basically new data structure)
2017-05-17T10:20:00Z jackdaniel: it's possible to add it given extensible sequences are supported on the implementation
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2017-05-17T10:20:49Z _death: could do it using define-setf-expander
2017-05-17T10:20:51Z jackdaniel: or did I misunderstand you
2017-05-17T10:20:58Z jackdaniel: yes I did :)
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2017-05-17T11:47:57Z flip214: beach: If I asked which GUI framework I should use, would you answer McClim?  ;P
2017-05-17T11:48:22Z flip214: trying a sample app...
2017-05-17T11:50:41Z jackdaniel: it's caleed superapp :-)
2017-05-17T11:50:44Z jackdaniel: called°
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2017-05-17T12:22:33Z beach: flip214: Possibly.  Or I might keep quiet if your needs don't fit.
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2017-05-17T12:24:49Z flip214: looks good so far.... but after 15 minutes I "still" (ha!) haven't figured out how to change the color of a button (to highlight it)
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2017-05-17T12:25:42Z flip214: (setf (clim-internals::gadget-current-color ...)  ...) is not enough, it seems
2017-05-17T12:25:44Z beach: I am not sure I could answer that without some work.
2017-05-17T12:26:29Z francogrex: i noticed that inferior lisp is better than the fancy "slime repl" for certain aspects. for example loading the package rcl hangs in the repl while works perfectly fine in inferior lisp
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2017-05-17T12:34:20Z flip214: hmmm.... (ql:quickload :clim-examples) rewarded me with "failed AVER:     (EQ (SB-C::FUNCTIONAL-KIND SB-C::FUNCTIONAL) :TOPLEVEL-XEP)
2017-05-17T12:34:27Z jackdaniel: flip214: if you want to customize how push-button is drawn, you'll have to specialize handle-repaint on your own version
2017-05-17T12:34:39Z flip214: in     (EQ (SB-C::FUNCTIONAL-KIND SB-C::FUNCTIONAL) :TOPLEVEL-XEP)
2017-05-17T12:34:52Z flip214: jackdaniel: okay, thanks.
2017-05-17T12:35:15Z jackdaniel: regarding aver, I think it's internal SBCL problem (I never seen it with McCLIM, but saw it in various other software - afaik issue is reported on sbcl tracker)
2017-05-17T12:35:28Z jackdaniel: restarting image and loading again usually helps
2017-05-17T12:35:31Z flip214: any other simple way to get a button that stays highlighted when pressed (until some other one is pressed)?
2017-05-17T12:36:07Z jackdaniel: you may specialize internal function clim-internals::effective-gadget-background on your button (eql), or on push-button class
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2017-05-17T12:36:30Z jackdaniel: but it's a hack, it may break without a warning (internals, as already mentioned)
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2017-05-17T12:37:19Z flip214: just seen that
2017-05-17T12:37:49Z jackdaniel: thanks for the PR :)
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2017-05-17T12:38:16Z flip214: I say thank you for all the help!
2017-05-17T12:38:33Z flip214: not sure, but since it's the only occurrence, it quite likely seems wrong...
2017-05-17T12:39:01Z jackdaniel: yes, it is a typo
2017-05-17T12:39:22Z jackdaniel: regarding example of how to paint a button, see Core/clim-core/gadgets.lisp (and look for handle-repaint)
2017-05-17T12:39:33Z jackdaniel: if you want to make your own drawing
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2017-05-17T12:41:15Z flip214: trying to keep 'armed active right now
2017-05-17T12:42:06Z jackdaniel: if you specialize effective-gadget-background then you'll have always the same color
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2017-05-17T12:42:24Z jackdaniel: there is also gadget-highlight-background for armed-only variant
2017-05-17T12:42:26Z jackdaniel: also part of internals
2017-05-17T12:43:03Z flip214: If I need only one of 10 buttons to be active at a time, is it better to have a special and specialize the method on (eql *my-current-button*)
2017-05-17T12:43:26Z flip214: or do I need to DEFCLASS my own version for overriding?
2017-05-17T12:43:27Z jackdaniel: if it's only one button (not a class of button), I'd do that with eql, yes
2017-05-17T12:43:41Z jackdaniel: but it's up to you
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2017-05-17T12:44:42Z jackdaniel: I'll check on later (busy a little) - if you have more questions put them on #clim, it will be easier to spot them there for me
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2017-05-17T12:45:00Z jackdaniel: or if you encounter bugs / issues, please report them of course
2017-05-17T12:45:08Z jackdaniel: on the tracker
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2017-05-17T13:30:05Z francogrex: how can i direct the return values from slime to *inferior-lisp*?
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2017-05-17T13:42:51Z jackdaniel: you can't. you can share variables though
2017-05-17T13:43:01Z jackdaniel: do (setf *xxx* "bam") in slime
2017-05-17T13:43:11Z jackdaniel: then in *inferior-lisp* you can access *xxx* as well
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2017-05-17T14:06:20Z |3b|: aeth, TeMPOraL: cl-opengl error checking happens in %gl:, not gl:, so matters for both
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2017-05-17T14:07:08Z |3b|: aeth: i suspect the problem on ECL is that you are using the interpreter instead of compiler for calls to GL extension functions (pretty much all of them, including core for any version past 1.x)
2017-05-17T14:09:12Z jackdaniel: I've added issue to benchmark ECL+cffi against SBCL/CCL+cffi
2017-05-17T14:09:19Z |3b|: aeth: try editing gl/bindings.lisp in cl-opengl, uncomment the 3 forms before ";;;; Thomas's version of DEFGLEXTFUN." and comment out the 3 after, then recompile the whole thing
2017-05-17T14:09:20Z jackdaniel: https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/issues/381
2017-05-17T14:09:43Z jackdaniel: will check myself when have some time
2017-05-17T14:09:53Z jackdaniel: s/have/I have/
2017-05-17T14:10:10Z |3b|: jackdaniel: if something calls COMPILE at runtime in ECL, will it get a slower function than if it used a normal DEFUN?
2017-05-17T14:10:37Z jackdaniel: no, it's the same
2017-05-17T14:10:53Z jackdaniel: but cffi uses by default dffi afair (inlining had some fails in cffi test suite)
2017-05-17T14:11:24Z jackdaniel: I'll investigate it if it slows down things
2017-05-17T14:11:49Z jackdaniel: up to date biggest inefficiency in ECL are generic functions (because they are not compiled)
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2017-05-17T14:11:50Z |3b|: ah, guess that isn't it then :/ is cffi:foreign-funcall-pointer slow?
2017-05-17T14:12:12Z jackdaniel: I don't know, I will be back in ~40 minutes
2017-05-17T14:12:33Z |3b|: ok, those are my 2 guesses for why cl-opengl in particular would be slow, if it isn't just CFFI in general
2017-05-17T14:13:23Z |3b|: (it needs to load function pointers at runtime, so currently COMPILEs a function to call the pointer when it loads the pointer)
2017-05-17T14:13:48Z jackdaniel: fwiw it uses dffi, so if dffi is slow, then yes, that may be slow
2017-05-17T14:13:54Z jackdaniel: but fixing inlining should fix it then
2017-05-17T14:13:59Z jackdaniel: I'll keep you posted on that
2017-05-17T14:14:06Z jackdaniel: (when I do benchmarks)
2017-05-17T14:14:17Z |3b|: ok, let me know if there is anything cl-opengl can do better for ECL
2017-05-17T14:14:37Z jackdaniel: aeth: set cffi:*cffi-ecl-method* to :c/c++
2017-05-17T14:14:41Z jackdaniel: this may help
2017-05-17T14:14:57Z jackdaniel: (before loading cl-opengl)
2017-05-17T14:15:26Z jackdaniel: probably I will add a pull request to cffi documentation documenting this flag
2017-05-17T14:15:40Z jackdaniel: |3b|: sure, thanks
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2017-05-17T14:22:10Z jackdaniel: aeth: if :c/c++ is too strict (symbols have to be available to C world) you may try :dlopen, which is more dynamic
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2017-05-17T14:24:08Z |3b|: almost all of opengl calls are through pointers rather than symbols, so not sure that would matter
2017-05-17T14:24:39Z |3b|: and the pointers are from the GL extension API, not dlopen
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2017-05-17T14:25:01Z jackdaniel: I mean :c/c++ inlines function calls, so the library must be loaded already (i.e so object)
2017-05-17T14:25:13Z jackdaniel: in case of :dlopen, it is resolved by a linker when called
2017-05-17T14:25:28Z jackdaniel: so it is possible to load shared object after compiling ecl functions
2017-05-17T14:26:14Z jackdaniel: not sure how well it works though
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2017-05-17T14:47:44Z |3b|: beach: as one of the people who likes to make my lisp unstable, i still appreciate your editor work. Much easier for us to add that feature to a working editor than to add that feature and a whole editor to an empty file :) Also, apologies for any past negativity / discouragement on that and your other projects
2017-05-17T14:48:42Z beach: Like water off a duck's back! :)
2017-05-17T14:50:28Z |3b|: and now i'm wondering how hard/annoying it would be to coordinate between emacs/slime and a CL editor working on same files, since it could be useful as a secondary editor even without process separation
2017-05-17T14:51:11Z beach: "coordinate" how?
2017-05-17T14:51:50Z |3b|: mostly making sure they see changes made in the other
2017-05-17T14:52:37Z |3b|: possibly as simple as telling the other to save, then reloading file before making changes to a saved file
2017-05-17T14:52:50Z |3b|: and maybe telling other to reload when file is saved
2017-05-17T14:53:04Z beach: Emacs detects modified files when the buffer is about to go from non-modified to modified state.
2017-05-17T14:53:23Z |3b|: right, slightly smarter version of that
2017-05-17T14:53:35Z beach: Yes, I see.
2017-05-17T14:53:46Z |3b|: (smarter as in checking for unsaved files in other editor as well as filesystem)
2017-05-17T14:54:17Z beach: I think I'll concentrate on what I am doing and let someone else figure that one out.
2017-05-17T14:54:33Z |3b|: yeah, was just about to say it isn't something you should worry about :)
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2017-05-17T14:54:39Z |3b|: fairly odd use case
2017-05-17T14:54:42Z beach: whew! :)
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2017-05-17T14:58:14Z |3b| 's next best idea for the problem that would be trying to solve involves running emacs/slime on a remote linux machine, connecting to lisp/swank on local windows machine, which is pretty ugly :/
2017-05-17T14:59:25Z beach: How would that solve the problem?
2017-05-17T14:59:34Z |3b|: (or possibly putting emacs/slime in a linux VM, which might allow simpler fileystem access and slightly better window/mouse interaction at the expense of more local ram usage)
2017-05-17T15:00:23Z |3b|: root problem is that i want access to the text contents of editor windows and ability to send input to the editor, so i can draw the interface myself. (while also having normal editor windows available)
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2017-05-17T15:01:31Z |3b|: on windows, i can't run multiple text-mode clients of a single emacs instance (and even 1 doesn't work that well), which was my original plan on linux
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2017-05-17T15:03:40Z |3b|: so running emacs on linux even if i still run the lisp on windows works around that problem, but not very cleanly
2017-05-17T15:05:40Z |3b|: (and even if i were running on linux, having direct access to window/buffer contents would still be nicer than just having the contents of a terminal emulator screen)
2017-05-17T15:07:19Z |3b|: and/or being able to redirect the actual display to a different backend without having to dig through a big pile of C code
2017-05-17T15:09:46Z beach is lost.
2017-05-17T15:09:47Z rumbler31: |3b|: i've done the linux emacs/slime to windows lisp/swank, it wasn't that hard to setup
2017-05-17T15:10:33Z rumbler31: if you dont' want to set up the ssh redirect, there is a global for swank to change the ip swank will bind on
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2017-05-17T15:11:04Z |3b|: rumbler31: yeah, messy part is the tramp and dealing with terminals instead of normal windows
2017-05-17T15:11:17Z rumbler31: oh that part.
2017-05-17T15:11:29Z rumbler31: reading all the files from the windows side? i didn't do that
2017-05-17T15:11:35Z rumbler31: tramp has never worked well for me
2017-05-17T15:13:39Z |3b|: beach: possibly better description of root problem is that i want to be able to interact with my editor without being able to see the normal desktop screen (either due to running a full-screen 3d program, or due to using a VR HMD, which is just a harder version of same problem)
2017-05-17T15:15:18Z |3b|: and in the latter case, i also want more control over the rendering, since most 2D UIs aren't really designed for being arbitrarily transformed in 3d space and being displayed on a low-resolution non-linear pixel grid
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2017-05-17T15:16:58Z beach: I see.
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2017-05-17T15:24:09Z rumbler31: |3b|: in hindsight, what I did was set up a shared folder s.t. I would be able to ql the code on the windows but have the linux emacs go to the shared folder for the files
2017-05-17T15:24:34Z rumbler31: so emacs and the remote lisp saw the same code files
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2017-05-17T15:37:54Z sebboh: So, when #lisp talks about 'registers', are you referring to hardware CPU registers?
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2017-05-17T15:39:09Z easye: sebboh: ACK
2017-05-17T15:39:18Z easye: That the compiler can reason about
2017-05-17T15:39:45Z beach: sebboh: Very likely, yes.
2017-05-17T15:40:18Z beach: sebboh: A significant number of people who hang out here are writers or maintainers of Common Lisp systems.
2017-05-17T15:40:31Z sebboh: kk
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2017-05-17T15:42:43Z easye: beach is one of our meta maintainers
2017-05-17T15:43:23Z easye: minion: SICL
2017-05-17T15:43:23Z minion: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
2017-05-17T15:43:46Z beach feels honored to be awarded this title.
2017-05-17T15:44:13Z holycow: ha!
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2017-05-17T16:04:28Z veckon: Does anyone know how complete SICL is?
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2017-05-17T16:04:40Z veckon: (wrt the ANSI standard I mean)
2017-05-17T16:06:42Z beach: veckon: I know exactly how complete it is.
2017-05-17T16:07:07Z beach: veckon: Most of the code is in there, but the bootstrapping procedure is not in place.
2017-05-17T16:07:36Z beach: veckon: Clasp is using the compiler framework (called Cleavir) as a basis for its main compiler.
2017-05-17T16:07:39Z veckon: Ah cool! It is really beautiful Common Lisp code. I enjoy just reading through it sometimes.
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2017-05-17T16:07:45Z beach: Thanks!
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2017-05-17T16:10:36Z hjudt: i have a problem with drakma and urls like this: http://server:port/jolokia-war?ignoreErrors=true&p=/read/Catalina:name="http-bio-8080",type=ThreadPool
2017-05-17T16:11:16Z hjudt: if i enter this into the address line in firefox, it loads the page correctly. but with drakma, i get a url validation error from puri.
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2017-05-17T16:12:02Z hjudt: is there a way to fix this?
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2017-05-17T16:12:40Z hjudt: (condition of type puri:uri-parse-error)
2017-05-17T16:13:49Z axion: Well the lisp reader will need you to escape a couple of those characters
2017-05-17T16:14:57Z hjudt: i know there is drakma's url-encode parameter which you can tell to use a different url-encoding function.
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2017-05-17T16:15:56Z axion: Why don't you try evaluating that as a string in the REPL without drakma...just enclose it in quotes
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2017-05-17T16:17:17Z hjudt: and then?
2017-05-17T16:17:36Z axion: It will not evaulate. It will give you hints on what you need to do
2017-05-17T16:23:38Z hjudt: i fixed it by writing my own url-encoding function. it did not work at first, but finally i got it to work.
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2017-05-17T16:36:01Z |3b|: hjudt: yeah, if you copy the url back from firefox after loading the page there you will see it encoded the quotes
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2017-05-17T16:37:09Z John[Lisbeth]: I have a list with this structure '(key value value key value value key value value). I want to walk the list and find the first instance where (equals x key) and then return the index
2017-05-17T16:38:57Z Bike: (loop for key in list by #'cdddr for index from 0 by 3 when (equals key x) do (return index))?
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2017-05-17T18:06:33Z didi: So I have a priority queue which shuffles objects around. I want the objects to know their indexes inside the priority queue, but I also want the priority queue to hold any object. So I declared a class IDX-CLASS with an object slot called IDX. How do I set IDX only of objects that are instances of IDX-CLASS? In my solution, I declared a generic function SET-IDX and 2 methods: (defmethod (i (x idx-class)) ...) which sets IDX, and
2017-05-17T18:06:33Z didi: (defmethod (i x)) which does nothing.
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2017-05-17T18:08:55Z Bike: i'd probably call it maybe-set-idx, but that seems okay to me.
2017-05-17T18:09:10Z didi: Bike: What do you think of my solution?
2017-05-17T18:09:27Z Bike: seems okay to me.
2017-05-17T18:09:56Z Bike: usually instead of set-foo you should just define a setf method, but since it doesn't always set it this makes sense.
2017-05-17T18:10:00Z |3b| might just define accessors to do nothing instead of making a separate function
2017-05-17T18:10:11Z didi: Cool. Actually, the objects don't need to know which indexes they are, but I do.
2017-05-17T18:10:44Z |3b|: or calculate it when you read it, if that happens less often than moving things, then it works for everything
2017-05-17T18:10:48Z didi: |3b|: But not every object is a IDX-CLASS.
2017-05-17T18:11:07Z |3b|: right, so the accessor does nothing for the things that aren't that class
2017-05-17T18:11:25Z didi: |3b|: Could you write me an example?
2017-05-17T18:12:03Z didi: I am not too comfortable with my (defmethod (i x)) that does nothing.
2017-05-17T18:12:14Z |3b|: (defmethod (setf idx) (v o) v) (defmethod idx (o) nil)
2017-05-17T18:12:39Z |3b|: (Bike's objection to SETF methods that don't set anything is also reasonable though)
2017-05-17T18:12:39Z didi: I will study it. Thank you.
2017-05-17T18:12:48Z didi: Bike: Thank you.
2017-05-17T18:13:04Z |3b|: and in IDX-CLASS, :ACCESSOR IDX as usual
2017-05-17T18:13:12Z didi nods
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2017-05-17T18:20:39Z didi: I want to keep track of indexes because I want to efficiently change objects' priority, so I can call (increase-priority i queue) instead of linear searching for it and then increase its priority. Does anyone have a better idea for keeping track of priority queue indexes? Maybe a priority queue algorithm that doesn't need it (I am using a heap)? I am uncomfortable with the priority queue functions changing values of elements it holds.
2017-05-17T18:21:56Z |3b|: what do you mean by "index"?
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2017-05-17T18:22:22Z didi: |3b|: My heap implementation uses a vector. So it is the index of the object on this vector.
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2017-05-17T18:26:29Z |3b|: hmm, not sure how to do that well
2017-05-17T18:26:48Z didi: I appreciate the attention, thank you.
2017-05-17T18:26:49Z |3b| 's first thought is just to have a separate hash table as an index, not sure if that is actually good or not though
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2017-05-17T18:27:21Z didi: Hum. Maybe a single data structure holding a vector and a hash table.
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2017-05-17T18:32:09Z mfzap: hi all... anyone know the easiest way to grab the socket remote IP address for an inbound request in WOOKIE (runs sockets via CL-ASYNC which is via LIBUV)?
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2017-05-17T18:41:32Z didi: |3b|: You know... it is not a bad idea. I might be able to sustain the memory impact.
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2017-05-17T18:52:26Z aeth: jackdaniel: (setf cffi::*cffi-ecl-method* :c/c++) doesn't seem to change the issue. render-entities (which calls all the draw calls) runs at 0.028471, which is more than the 0.016666... that is allowed for 60 FPS
2017-05-17T18:53:05Z aeth: I don't think it's a cache error because it recompiled everything after I made that change, starting at the gl file.
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2017-05-17T19:03:18Z aeth: Actually, this doesn't appear to be the case. It probably has to do with the cache of compiled files.
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2017-05-17T19:13:17Z aeth: jackdaniel: nevermind, it works, it brought it down to 0.000208 sec/call
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2017-05-17T19:17:42Z aeth: The actual individual draw call is 0.000014, which is still about twice as slow as SBCL's and CCL's (I'm getting 0.000007 now for SBCL, yesterday I got 0.000009 for both SBCL and CCL iirc)
2017-05-17T19:18:08Z aeth: Twice as slow is much better than 255x as slow, though.
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2017-05-17T19:21:29Z aeth: (The reason I accidentally thought nothing changed is because I saw SLIME recompile my engine's files... when, of course, it needed to recompile the cl-opengl bindings in order to make a change.)
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2017-05-17T21:32:10Z msmith: anyone know if there is a way to append a stream to a broadcast stream after it is created?
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2017-05-17T21:38:48Z |3b|: you could wrap it in another broadcast stream, though that wouldn't scale well
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2017-05-17T21:40:44Z |3b|: or if the stream needs to stay constant, maybe use a synonym stream pointing to a broadcast stream and swap it out with another broadcast stream with the extra stream
2017-05-17T21:41:00Z |3b| has no idea how that would interact with multiple threads though
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2017-05-17T21:45:47Z msmith: |3b| just read up on synonym streams and can't really see the point in them.  Are they mainly used for the kind of use case you described?  to be able to do something the the stream it points to while data is moving through the synonym stream?
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2017-05-17T21:52:05Z foom: msmith: it's a lazy alias.
2017-05-17T21:52:12Z foom: http://lisptips.com/post/127524780849/when-a-synonym-stream-is-useful
2017-05-17T21:54:26Z msmith: foom: just came across that. thanks
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