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I do not know where to start. ./portacle.desktop 2017-05-07T07:36:57Z razzy: ./portacle.desktop: řádek 1: [Desktop: příkaz nenalezen 2017-05-07T07:36:59Z razzy: ./portacle.desktop: řádek 5: Common: příkaz nenalezen 2017-05-07T07:37:02Z razzy: ./portacle.desktop: řádek 6: -c: příkaz nenalezen 2017-05-07T07:37:04Z razzy: ./portacle.desktop: řádek 9: Common: příkaz nenalezen 2017-05-07T07:37:07Z razzy: ./portacle.desktop: řádek 9: Lisp: příkaz nenalezen 2017-05-07T07:37:09Z razzy: ./portacle.desktop: řádek 9: Text: příkaz nenalezen 2017-05-07T07:37:52Z razzy: I have suspicion, I am using wrong kind of bash. 2017-05-07T07:38:20Z razzy: I have suspicion, am I using wrong kind of bash? 2017-05-07T07:39:02Z Bourne joined #lisp 2017-05-07T07:41:58Z Guest89521 quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2017-05-07T07:43:20Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2017-05-07T07:49:49Z adolf_stalin quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-07T07:50:12Z mishoo joined #lisp 2017-05-07T07:52:41Z pve joined #lisp 2017-05-07T07:56:07Z Devon quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2017-05-07T07:56:31Z sword joined #lisp 2017-05-07T07:59:07Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T07:59:27Z gingerale joined #lisp 2017-05-07T07:59:31Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T08:01:23Z _main_ joined #lisp 2017-05-07T08:01:42Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-07T08:01:42Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-07T08:02:28Z __main__ joined #lisp 2017-05-07T08:03:24Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-07T08:04:25Z __main__ joined #lisp 2017-05-07T08:05:29Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T08:05:53Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T08:06:07Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving) 2017-05-07T08:17:52Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2017-05-07T08:21:38Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T08:21:59Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T08:31:55Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T08:32:18Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T08:32:31Z oleksiyp joined #lisp 2017-05-07T08:32:36Z ebrasca-afk is now known as ebrasca 2017-05-07T08:32:47Z oleksiyp quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-07T08:33:10Z grumble quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Please use a proper editor and repaste 2017-05-07T11:04:44Z scymtym joined #lisp 2017-05-07T11:09:25Z p_l: razzy: for .desktop files, use xdg-open (or click on them in whatever desktop environment you want) 2017-05-07T11:09:50Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2017-05-07T11:10:29Z paule32: http://paste.lisp.org/display/346047 2017-05-07T11:10:33Z p_l: razzy: also you can open the file and look for line starting with "Run=" which is the command to be actually executed 2017-05-07T11:11:41Z axion: paule32: What is with the literal vectors? And How did you even get that to compile (it's not valid loop syntax)? 2017-05-07T11:12:04Z axion: That is not even correct Common Lisp 2017-05-07T11:12:21Z paule32: i use clisp 2017-05-07T11:12:38Z paule32: get no error 2017-05-07T11:13:21Z axion: That will not compile with any Common Lisp implementation 2017-05-07T11:15:21Z ttt72 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T11:15:37Z paule32: http://paste.lisp.org/display/346048 2017-05-07T11:16:56Z knobo joined #lisp 2017-05-07T11:18:00Z paule32 quit (Quit: paule32) 2017-05-07T11:19:17Z paule32 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T11:19:23Z teggi quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2017-05-07T11:21:25Z p_l: amazingly it compiles in SBCL 2017-05-07T11:21:36Z p_l: what material are you using to learn? 2017-05-07T11:22:13Z paule32: my own 2017-05-07T11:22:23Z paule32: and little bit internet 2017-05-07T11:23:08Z Lowl3v3l quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-07T11:24:54Z Lowl3v3l joined #lisp 2017-05-07T11:25:19Z axion: Amazingly, you are correct. I am completely wowed, considering there is at least 1 problem with almost every single line. 2017-05-07T11:26:25Z oleo quit (Quit: irc client terminated!) 2017-05-07T11:26:57Z p_l: paule32: I strongly recommend that you go through PCL (gigamonkeys.com/book) - whatever sources you have used on the internet, they seem to be incorrect for longer than I am alive 2017-05-07T11:27:12Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T11:29:22Z p_l: http://paste.lisp.org/display/346048#2 <--- some very, very basic cleanup 2017-05-07T11:31:35Z varjagg: p_l: you are like 48th person to recommend that book to him now 2017-05-07T11:34:31Z paule32: thank you p_l 2017-05-07T11:34:57Z p_l: http://paste.lisp.org/display/346048#3 ... i made the loop work 2017-05-07T11:35:12Z p_l: you mess with literals too much which leads to unpredictable or hard behaviour 2017-05-07T11:35:27Z p_l: worse, read macros galore 2017-05-07T11:36:17Z axion: I don't think he is mutating them though 2017-05-07T11:37:28Z p_l: ... fortunately not 2017-05-07T11:37:30Z shrdlu68: Interesting, list processing was actually invented in IPL. 2017-05-07T11:39:40Z shrdlu68 never knew IPL had such a big influence on Lisp. 2017-05-07T11:40:16Z varjagg: not sure it had 2017-05-07T11:40:44Z varjagg: most likely people kept inventing linked lists after lisp, too 2017-05-07T11:41:04Z axion: The worst parts of the code are the style...dangling closing parens, bad indentation, camelcase, using setq without establishing a binding first, the use of (if .. (if ..)) instead of (when (and ..)), (> .. 0) instead of PLUSP, etc 2017-05-07T11:41:05Z p_l: shrdlu68: not as much influence as might seem in the beginning. IPL introduced processing of dynamic datastructure, and McCarthy was afaik aware of it, but the origins of LISP lie in symbolic processing 2017-05-07T11:41:39Z p_l: axion: SETQ in general is bad idea pretty much always outside of some specific cases 2017-05-07T11:41:41Z axion: i wouldn't even use > to check if a list has members though heh 2017-05-07T11:41:42Z nowhereman joined #lisp 2017-05-07T11:41:45Z p_l: (like setting globals) 2017-05-07T11:41:56Z axion: yep 2017-05-07T11:41:56Z shrdlu68: axion: What code? 2017-05-07T11:42:23Z axion: any of the few pastes above 2017-05-07T11:42:43Z shrdlu68: p_l: IPL also had symbolic computation, apparently. 2017-05-07T11:43:09Z p_l: shrdlu68: you could do it in IPL, but I don't think it was the main idea 2017-05-07T11:43:25Z shrdlu68 is getting information from Wikipedia, midway through "Machines who think" 2017-05-07T11:44:22Z LiamH joined #lisp 2017-05-07T11:44:53Z shrdlu68: I was hoping the logic theorist was written in Lisp, but it was written before the invention of Lisp. 2017-05-07T11:46:12Z p_l: shrdlu68: mind you, AIM-8 is written *after* writing first symbolic reasoning system in lisp running on IBM 704 2017-05-07T11:46:17Z LiamH quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-07T11:47:06Z shrdlu68: I wouldn't say it was _strongly_ influenced by IPL, but that it was influenced at all by IPL puts things in perspective. 2017-05-07T11:48:41Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2017-05-07T11:50:17Z shifty joined #lisp 2017-05-07T11:52:20Z shrdlu68: I wonder whether I can get LogicTheorist 2017-05-07T11:52:42Z shrdlu68: 's source code. Very much interested in rewriting it. 2017-05-07T11:53:05Z adolf_stalin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T11:53:23Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-07T11:55:17Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2017-05-07T11:56:12Z krrrcks joined #lisp 2017-05-07T11:57:27Z shrdlu68: Wish LT was covered in PAIP. 2017-05-07T11:58:32Z hazz joined #lisp 2017-05-07T12:03:43Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-07T12:04:15Z arbv joined #lisp 2017-05-07T12:05:06Z MrBusiness quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-07T12:13:27Z prole joined #lisp 2017-05-07T12:14:54Z axion: Well this is a new one for me. This algorithm using pure CL arrays I wrote is returning a strange SBCL value I've never seen before 2017-05-07T12:18:35Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-07T12:21:25Z axion: # 2017-05-07T12:21:38Z axion: I guess memory got corrupted somewhere....but it's easily reproducible 2017-05-07T12:21:41Z axion: oh well 2017-05-07T12:21:43Z EvW1 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T12:23:28Z Lowl3v3l quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T12:29:23Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-07T12:33:08Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T12:34:24Z Xach: axion: safety 0 can do odd things 2017-05-07T12:39:08Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T12:41:52Z phoe: axion: if it's reproducible, then fling a bugreport 2017-05-07T12:43:12Z dddddd joined #lisp 2017-05-07T12:43:43Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp 2017-05-07T12:45:14Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2017-05-07T12:49:24Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2017-05-07T12:53:57Z adolf_stalin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T12:55:30Z Guest97100 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T12:58:14Z SpikeMaster joined #lisp 2017-05-07T12:58:19Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:00:18Z wildlander joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:03:57Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T13:07:40Z X-Scale joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:09:12Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:12:09Z SpikeMaster quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.0.50)) 2017-05-07T13:12:29Z shrdlu68 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-07T13:13:40Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:14:53Z thijso quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-05-07T13:20:43Z pilne joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:21:12Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T13:21:35Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:25:16Z ttt72 quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-07T13:25:34Z paule32: so, now i have a problem 2017-05-07T13:25:39Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:25:45Z paule32: i have a list with 2 names 2017-05-07T13:26:06Z paule32: when i search the list, i use the variable x 2017-05-07T13:26:19Z paule32: but x is override by next item 2017-05-07T13:26:26Z paule32: or next name 2017-05-07T13:26:54Z paule32: so, i think, i have to include a id 2017-05-07T13:27:24Z paule32: ? 2017-05-07T13:27:39Z phoe: paule32: show us the code 2017-05-07T13:29:07Z paule32: http://paste.lisp.org/display/346053 2017-05-07T13:29:15Z paule32: one of my first idea was: 2017-05-07T13:29:45Z paule32: iter through the list, and set a static length of the name or search for char : 2017-05-07T13:30:03Z paule32: wich is follow by an id "0001" 2017-05-07T13:30:20Z paule32: so the name item in list is "JENS:0001" 2017-05-07T13:31:32Z velo-alien joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:31:44Z paule32: when i give the data "JENS", then i could search for ":0001", than translate the string "0001" tp a global variable symbol like SEARCH0001 2017-05-07T13:32:19Z phoe: I'm sorry, this code is completely unreadable to me. 2017-05-07T13:32:35Z beach: ... and to everybody else. 2017-05-07T13:35:04Z nowhereman joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:39:26Z beach: paule32: Can you point me to a single example in the PCL book where the author uses a variable named in CamelCase? If not, perhaps that should be a clue to you that CamelCase is not the conventional way of naming variables. 2017-05-07T13:40:57Z beach: paule32: Can you point me to a single example in the PCL book where the author puts whitespace immediately before a closing parenthesis? If not, perhaps that should be a clue to you that whitespace before closing parentheses is not the conventional way of formating Common Lisp code. 2017-05-07T13:41:13Z beach: Oh, wait, despite advice, you didn't read the book, did you? 2017-05-07T13:45:00Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T13:45:24Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:45:35Z beach: paule32: In case you hadn't noticed, people here are rapidly losing patience with you and the way you behave. You have repeatedly given the same, very friendly, advice about what book to read, what editor to use, and how to lay out your code. Some very nice people have even annotated your paste with a better version. 2017-05-07T13:45:37Z beach: paule32: But you don't seem sensitive to such help, in that you then continue to ask question about code that is formated the wrong way, indented the wrong way, and that uses a programming style that no sane Common Lisp book would teach you. 2017-05-07T13:46:52Z beach: paule32: I have no idea what it is that you are up to, but learning Common Lisp does not seem to be it. And if you are not here in order to learn the language, I think very few people are going to want to help you in the future. 2017-05-07T13:47:23Z pjb: Yeah, I reached that conclusion yesterday… 2017-05-07T13:47:43Z beach: What took you so long? :) 2017-05-07T13:47:56Z pjb: I wasn't following it too closely. 2017-05-07T13:47:56Z madalu joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:48:09Z beach: Yeah, sure, OK. 2017-05-07T13:50:27Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:50:41Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-05-07T13:51:36Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T13:54:11Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T13:55:34Z adolf_stalin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-05-07T13:57:31Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T13:57:58Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:02:25Z p9s quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-05-07T14:02:36Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:04:40Z velo-alien quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T14:05:10Z Guest97100 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-05-07T14:07:37Z loke___ joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:08:24Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T14:08:47Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:11:59Z deank quit 2017-05-07T14:14:01Z Lowl3v3l joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:14:08Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-07T14:16:10Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T14:17:25Z yeticry joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:19:03Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T14:19:28Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:20:24Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:20:24Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2017-05-07T14:20:24Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:22:31Z velo-alien joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:25:36Z knobo joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:28:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T14:29:26Z lungaro joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:29:35Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T14:29:59Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:31:14Z lungaro: experienced programmer who doesn't know lsip here. What is a good place to start? read a few sections from http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ already and it seems good enough 2017-05-07T14:32:00Z White_Flame: yep, that's a well regarded learning point 2017-05-07T14:32:30Z lungaro: cool 2017-05-07T14:33:16Z White_Flame: I'm not sure if PCL introduces quicklisp or not. That's the library downloader 2017-05-07T14:33:22Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:33:29Z White_Flame: definitely worth looking into 2017-05-07T14:33:36Z beach: I think it was written before Quicklisp existed. 2017-05-07T14:34:11Z beach: lungaro: When you are ready to install a system and a programming environment, it is best to ask here, or you will likely do the wrong thing and have to re-install. 2017-05-07T14:34:30Z lungaro: i like doing the wrong thing =P 2017-05-07T14:34:41Z beach: That's fine then. 2017-05-07T14:34:43Z lungaro: just starting out w/ common lisp from apt 2017-05-07T14:35:00Z White_Flame: that will tend to get you fairly old versions, but for learning it's fine 2017-05-07T14:35:14Z White_Flame: when you want to start downloading & using libraries, you might hit some issues 2017-05-07T14:35:17Z beach: lungaro: Which implementation is that? 2017-05-07T14:35:25Z lungaro: gnu common lisp 2017-05-07T14:35:33Z beach: Ouch. 2017-05-07T14:36:04Z beach: That's one of the implementations that is not very conforming. 2017-05-07T14:36:08Z White_Flame: sbcl, ccl, clisp, and ecl are generally the most used ones I've seen around here. sbcl is by far the most popular 2017-05-07T14:36:45Z White_Flame: ccl has strong mac & windows support, clisp was lowest common denominator that ran anywhere, ecl is for embedding with c 2017-05-07T14:37:19Z White_Flame: (clisp has gone well beyond that, haven't used it myself in a long time) 2017-05-07T14:37:54Z jackdaniel: lungaro: gnu common lisp doesn't implement ANSI Common Lisp standard (it aims at cltl2 atm) 2017-05-07T14:37:58Z lungaro: i'll be sure to keep that in the back of my mind. I'm so newbie right now I dont care what I use. I doubt any implemenation gets these things wrong 2017-05-07T14:38:05Z jackdaniel: so you'll have some problems with examples from PCL if you use this implementation 2017-05-07T14:38:12Z lungaro: k 2017-05-07T14:38:20Z jackdaniel: I'd go with SBCL (or CCL) for learning 2017-05-07T14:38:30Z Bike joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:38:33Z phoe: ^ 2017-05-07T14:38:35Z jackdaniel: they are fast and conforming 2017-05-07T14:38:39Z phoe: GCL is nothing I can recommend. 2017-05-07T14:39:03Z lungaro: =P 2017-05-07T14:39:19Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T14:39:34Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:40:09Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T14:40:19Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:40:24Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:40:57Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T14:41:07Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:41:45Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T14:41:58Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:42:33Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T14:42:43Z p9s joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:43:04Z Bike: sbcl is in ubuntu and debian repos, too (dunno which repos are implied by "from apt") 2017-05-07T14:43:21Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T14:46:22Z MONODA joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:46:34Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T14:46:58Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:48:26Z phoe: Bike: standard repositories, yes 2017-05-07T14:48:34Z phoe: apt install sbcl will just work 2017-05-07T14:50:12Z mazoe joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:51:12Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:51:41Z beach: lungaro: After having installed your Common Lisp implementation, you would be recommended to download Quicklisp, and the first library that is typically recommended is SLIME, which is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. 2017-05-07T14:52:13Z phoe: lungaro: http://cliki.net/Getting+Started 2017-05-07T14:52:32Z lungaro: i'm not jumping on the emacs wagon. I know, burn me at the stake 2017-05-07T14:53:55Z White_Flame: it's more burning yourself. emacs is the best supported environment, and almost every tutorial will assume emacs+slime 2017-05-07T14:53:57Z jackdaniel: lungaro: undestandable. keep in mind though, that SLIME is the closest thing to IDE you have at the moment 2017-05-07T14:53:57Z beach: lungaro: It is not about that. It is that Emacs + SLIME provide help for laying out your code in a conventional way, which makes it easier for you to find potential problems. 2017-05-07T14:54:03Z jackdaniel: just saying 2017-05-07T14:54:22Z phoe: lungaro: there are alternatives 2017-05-07T14:54:33Z White_Flame: I'm no emacs fan either, but I use it because it works the best for lisp 2017-05-07T14:54:41Z phoe: slimv for Vim/Neovim, a Geany plugin jasom is working on, and an Atom plugin 2017-05-07T14:55:08Z jackdaniel: fwiw there is cl-jupyter project aiming at Jupyter Notebooks 2017-05-07T14:55:13Z lungaro: its just not a goal, learning a editor just to code in lisp seems backwards, but i'll keep an open mind 2017-05-07T14:55:28Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T14:55:35Z adolf_stalin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T14:55:52Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:56:05Z White_Flame: it's sort of like saying you're going to learn windows C# programming, but not learn visual studio 2017-05-07T14:56:26Z TDT joined #lisp 2017-05-07T14:56:38Z phoe: learning emacs gives you unexpected profits in other areas of programming, but it's true that it *does* have a very steep learning curve. just keep in mind that SLIME is the most widely used and therefore most widely supported Common Lisp environment. 2017-05-07T14:56:39Z lungaro: not really. not a long of languages dictate what editor i should use 2017-05-07T14:56:54Z beach: lungaro: You can naturally use any editor you like, but what typically happens is that you will need to ask for help at some later point, and then, if your code is not correctly indented (which Emacs and SLIME will help you with), then it will be much harder for people to help you out. 2017-05-07T14:57:04Z White_Flame: it's all about the active interactions between the editor & the running environment 2017-05-07T14:57:16Z phoe: lungaro: Lisp is also a pretty specific language because it's very interactive compared to C/C++/Python even. 2017-05-07T14:57:29Z lungaro: k 2017-05-07T14:57:48Z phoe: you have a REPL available for you all the time and usually only write bits of code/functions in other buffers before sending them to the Lisp, so it can evaluate them. 2017-05-07T14:57:58Z phoe: and then you can experiment in the REPL with the code you just wrote. 2017-05-07T14:57:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-07T14:58:23Z lungaro: sounds cool 2017-05-07T14:58:27Z phoe: it's a very interactive experience and you don't get that experience with a simple text editor - you require something that supports that interactivity. 2017-05-07T14:59:07Z phoe: from the side of Common Lisp, it's provided by SWANK, which is basically a server that responds to clients by evaluating stuff that comes in and sending back responses. 2017-05-07T14:59:43Z phoe: and there are multiple clients for that server - SLIME is the most popular of them, but as I said, there's slimv and plugins for Atom and Geany. 2017-05-07T15:00:30Z phoe: you can try them all, no problem with that - just keep in mind that working with Lisp is interactive, compared to languages like C/Java/etcetera, and this interactivity requires some support from the editor side. 2017-05-07T15:01:05Z lungaro: i'll probably break down and learn emacs. 2017-05-07T15:01:51Z phoe: lungaro: if it's anything to convince you, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkYUU0UoB_0 2017-05-07T15:01:54Z paule32: beach: sorry for my idle, i have family, and the computer is only a hobby, so i can't spent all time on the computer, i have to make food, wear, ... and handle girl 2017-05-07T15:01:54Z lungaro: after a decade of vim though.. i'm gonna rip out my hair 2017-05-07T15:01:55Z loke___: lungaro: That's a good plan :-) 2017-05-07T15:02:03Z phoe: lungaro: not really 2017-05-07T15:02:06Z phoe: check out spacemacs 2017-05-07T15:02:09Z paule32: so i can't only say, sorry 2017-05-07T15:02:13Z paule32: can 2017-05-07T15:02:22Z phoe: it's an emacs distribution meant for vim users and not only. 2017-05-07T15:02:32Z lungaro: pho, yah, friend of mine uses it 2017-05-07T15:02:37Z lungaro: i hear good things 2017-05-07T15:02:44Z phoe: also, the video I linked shows how good Lisp is at livecoding. 2017-05-07T15:03:16Z mazoe quit (Quit: mazoe) 2017-05-07T15:04:04Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-07T15:04:15Z paule32: beach: second sorry for ident mode/format of source, i came from the c++ league, and there the coding style is a little bit an other thing 2017-05-07T15:04:38Z loke___: phoe: which video> i need something like that to share 2017-05-07T15:04:52Z phoe: lungaro: the guy in the video simply writes the code and goes "C-c C-c", which means Ctrl+C Ctrl+C in the non-emacs league, and in Slime means "evaluate this form". 2017-05-07T15:04:58Z phoe: loke___: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkYUU0UoB_0 2017-05-07T15:05:08Z phoe: this guy's channel contains more goodness 2017-05-07T15:06:16Z phoe: then he can delete that piece of code and write new one, but the code is already compiled and live. inside Lisp, you can redefine whole functions as the program is running, which gives another layer of interactivity. 2017-05-07T15:06:44Z phoe: so this guy just keeps on redefining functions over and over until boom, there's music and graphical effects. 2017-05-07T15:06:47Z loke___: phoe: Of course. 2017-05-07T15:07:07Z deank joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:07:13Z loke___: phoe: I did a similar vide trying to highlight those benefits. 2017-05-07T15:09:38Z jackdaniel: I think that a very cool illustration is what baggers did with CEPL 2017-05-07T15:09:46Z jackdaniel: there is video, which shows interactive rendering 2017-05-07T15:10:21Z jackdaniel: I know it's not CL REPL per se, but watching it is enlightening for people, who didn't use REPL before 2017-05-07T15:10:35Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T15:11:40Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T15:11:42Z phoe: yes 2017-05-07T15:11:59Z phoe: lungaro: ask around at #lispgames for Baggers and his videos 2017-05-07T15:13:41Z jackdaniel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4GfOUWEuA&list=PL2VAYZE_4wRKKr5pJzfYD1w4tKCXARs5y here 2017-05-07T15:14:24Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T15:14:48Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:15:05Z MONODA quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T15:15:24Z smoon joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:15:35Z remote joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:16:56Z oleo joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:18:20Z safe joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:19:31Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T15:19:49Z phoe: lungaro: ^ 2017-05-07T15:19:54Z ttt72 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:24:15Z razzy: p_l: Thx, after a while and walk, a ot to this bash -c 'cd $(dirname %k) && ./portacle.run' 2017-05-07T15:24:18Z razzy: ./portacle.run: řádek 7: /home/razzy/bin/Github/portacle//lin/launcher/portacle: binární soubor nelze spustit: Chybný formát spustitelného souboru 2017-05-07T15:24:32Z razzy: p_l: Thx, after a while and walk, a ot to this bash -c 'cd $(dirname %k) && ./portacle.run' 2017-05-07T15:24:32Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT) 2017-05-07T15:24:35Z razzy: ./portacle.run: řádek 7: /home/razzy/bin/Github/portacle//lin/launcher/portacle: binární soubor nelze spustit: Chybný formát spustitelného souboru 2017-05-07T15:25:12Z Khisanth joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:25:14Z p_l: ... can you run it with LC_ALL=C LANG=C ./portacle.run 2017-05-07T15:25:50Z razzy: p_l: and maybe checksums do not add-up razzy@razzyho:~/bin/Github/portacle/lin/launcher$ sha1sum portacle 2017-05-07T15:25:53Z razzy: e11b543dd81f3a8250310fe93ac780a9794a4c8d portacle 2017-05-07T15:25:56Z razzy: razzy@razzyho:~/bin/Github/portacle/lin/launcher$ file ./portacle 2017-05-07T15:25:58Z razzy: ./portacle: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.24, BuildID[sha1]=8caae9767f105837f0bd3c99041dde2c54d0acf6, not stripped 2017-05-07T15:26:01Z razzy: razzy@razzyho:~/bin/Github/portacle/lin/launcher$ 2017-05-07T15:26:50Z phoe: razzy: run it with English locale - this message tells me nothing except it's probably in Czech or Slovak 2017-05-07T15:27:11Z phoe: also, give me the result of uname -a 2017-05-07T15:28:19Z razzy: phoe: uname -a 2017-05-07T15:28:19Z razzy: Linux razzyho 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.39-1+deb8u2 (2017-03-07) i686 GNU/Linux 2017-05-07T15:28:22Z razzy: razzy@razzyho:~/bin/Github/portacle/lin/launcher$ 2017-05-07T15:29:15Z p_l: razzy: you have a 32bit system, portacle binary is for 64bit ones 2017-05-07T15:29:46Z razzy: ./portacle.run: line 7: /home/razzy/bin/Github/portacle//lin/launcher/portacle: binary file cannot execute: Bad format executable file {hand translation} 2017-05-07T15:29:52Z p_l: razzy: yep 2017-05-07T15:29:55Z remote quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2017-05-07T15:29:58Z phoe: razzy: you can't run 64-bit binaries on a 32-bit OS. 2017-05-07T15:30:05Z p_l: it's built for 64bit system, it won't run on 32bit machine 2017-05-07T15:30:06Z razzy: damm :D 2017-05-07T15:30:19Z p_l: (also, where did you find a 32bit machine? one of those cheap windows tablets?) 2017-05-07T15:30:22Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7.1) 2017-05-07T15:30:22Z phoe: razzy: if you're lucky enough to have a 64-bit capable CPU, then install a 64-bit capable OS. 2017-05-07T15:30:32Z phoe: if not - time for an upgrade. 2017-05-07T15:31:34Z razzy: fine :] 2017-05-07T15:35:00Z ttt72 quit (Quit: ttt72) 2017-05-07T15:37:45Z razzy: phoe: p_l now i see it x86, not i68 2017-05-07T15:40:27Z phoe: razzy: they mean the same. 2017-05-07T15:40:41Z phoe: x86 and i686 mean the same thing, a 32-bit architecture. 2017-05-07T15:40:45Z phoe: amd64 is what you are looking for. 2017-05-07T15:43:12Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:44:57Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T15:45:05Z razzy: phoe: should the binnary work on x86 instruction set? because: ./portacle: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, <== 2017-05-07T15:45:43Z razzy: phoe: but x86 is not 32bit instruction set? 2017-05-07T15:46:08Z p_l: razzy: x86-64 is also one of the names for amd64, similar to x64, both created later 2017-05-07T15:46:25Z p_l: anyway, 64bit cpu is what portacle expects 2017-05-07T15:46:34Z razzy: chmm 2017-05-07T15:46:38Z brendyn joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:46:58Z p_l: and in this time and age it's harder to find a 32bit one than 64 bit, at least when it comes to laptops and desktops 2017-05-07T15:47:19Z p_l: I think only mobile market and some windows tablets happen to have 32bit more often 2017-05-07T15:47:28Z razzy: yes. get it 2017-05-07T15:47:52Z krrrcks quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2017-05-07T15:48:47Z phoe: razzy: 2017-05-07T15:48:52Z phoe: cat /proc/cpuinfo 2017-05-07T15:49:08Z phoe: copy the output and post it to pastebin, then post the pastebin link here 2017-05-07T15:50:21Z emacsomancer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T15:52:02Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:53:58Z loke___ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-05-07T15:56:21Z adolf_stalin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T15:56:34Z emacsomancer joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:58:48Z mazoe joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:58:52Z mathrick joined #lisp 2017-05-07T15:59:04Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T15:59:26Z razzy: phoe: i have got 64bit processor, i "just need to upgrade kernel" 2017-05-07T16:00:37Z razzy: phoe: easy way to upgrade to 64bit on debian? razzy@razzyho:/bin$ cat /proc/cpuinfo 2017-05-07T16:00:40Z razzy: processor : 0 2017-05-07T16:00:42Z razzy: vendor_id : AuthenticAMD 2017-05-07T16:00:45Z razzy: cpu family : 15 2017-05-07T16:00:47Z razzy: model : 107 2017-05-07T16:00:50Z razzy: model name : AMD Athlon(tm) Neo X2 Dual Core Processor L335 2017-05-07T16:00:52Z razzy: stepping : 2 2017-05-07T16:00:55Z razzy: microcode : 0x83 2017-05-07T16:00:57Z razzy: cpu MHz : 800.000 2017-05-07T16:01:00Z razzy: cache size : 256 KB 2017-05-07T16:01:02Z razzy: physical id : 0 2017-05-07T16:01:05Z razzy: siblings : 2 2017-05-07T16:01:07Z razzy: core id : 0 2017-05-07T16:01:10Z razzy: cpu cores : 2 2017-05-07T16:01:12Z razzy: apicid : 0 2017-05-07T16:01:15Z razzy: initial apicid : 0 2017-05-07T16:01:17Z phoe: razzy: NO 2017-05-07T16:01:17Z razzy: fdiv_bug : no 2017-05-07T16:01:19Z phoe: GOD DAMN NO 2017-05-07T16:01:20Z razzy: f00f_bug : no 2017-05-07T16:01:21Z beach: razzy: Please! 2017-05-07T16:01:22Z razzy: coma_bug : no 2017-05-07T16:01:23Z phoe: I TOLD YOU TO USE PASTEBIN 2017-05-07T16:01:25Z razzy: fpu : yes 2017-05-07T16:01:27Z razzy: fpu_exception : yes 2017-05-07T16:01:30Z razzy: cpuid level : 1 2017-05-07T16:01:32Z razzy: wp : yes 2017-05-07T16:01:35Z razzy: flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow extd_apicid pni cx16 lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy 3dnowprefetch lbrv vmmcall 2017-05-07T16:01:39Z razzy: bogomips : 1595.83 2017-05-07T16:01:41Z jackdaniel: did I mention, that recommending unstable IDE by a newcomer may end with a disaster (like a flood on the channel)? :-) 2017-05-07T16:01:41Z razzy: clflush size : 64 2017-05-07T16:01:44Z razzy: cache_alignment : 64 2017-05-07T16:01:46Z razzy: address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual 2017-05-07T16:01:49Z razzy: power management: ts fid vid ttp tm stc 100mhzsteps 2017-05-07T16:01:49Z jackdaniel: s/by a/to a/ 2017-05-07T16:01:51Z razzy: processor : 1 2017-05-07T16:01:54Z razzy: cpu family : 15 2017-05-07T16:01:56Z razzy: model : 107 2017-05-07T16:01:59Z razzy: model name : AMD Athlon(tm) Neo X2 Dual Core Processor L335 2017-05-07T16:02:01Z razzy: stepping : 2 2017-05-07T16:02:04Z razzy: microcode : 0x83 2017-05-07T16:02:06Z razzy: cpu MHz : 800.000 2017-05-07T16:02:09Z razzy: cache size : 256 KB 2017-05-07T16:02:11Z razzy: physical id : 0 2017-05-07T16:02:14Z razzy: siblings : 2 2017-05-07T16:02:14Z Bike: and it always takes so long... 2017-05-07T16:02:16Z razzy: core id : 1 2017-05-07T16:02:19Z razzy: cpu cores : 2 2017-05-07T16:02:21Z razzy: apicid : 1 2017-05-07T16:02:24Z razzy: initial apicid : 1 2017-05-07T16:02:25Z shrdlu68: The hell is this? 2017-05-07T16:02:25Z phoe: jackdaniel: recommending IDEs has nothing to do with lack of common sense like flooding channels with 40+ lines of text 2017-05-07T16:02:25Z beach: can someone kick him? 2017-05-07T16:02:26Z Bike: pj fpr gpd 2017-05-07T16:02:26Z razzy: fdiv_bug : no 2017-05-07T16:02:29Z razzy: f00f_bug : no 2017-05-07T16:02:31Z razzy: coma_bug : no 2017-05-07T16:02:34Z razzy: fpu : yes 2017-05-07T16:02:36Z razzy: fpu_exception : yes 2017-05-07T16:02:39Z razzy: cpuid level : 1 2017-05-07T16:02:41Z razzy: wp : yes 2017-05-07T16:02:43Z Bike: who even has ops nowadays 2017-05-07T16:02:44Z razzy: flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow extd_apicid pni cx16 lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy 3dnowprefetch lbrv vmmcall 2017-05-07T16:02:48Z razzy: bogomips : 1595.83 2017-05-07T16:02:50Z razzy: clflush size : 64 2017-05-07T16:02:53Z razzy: cache_alignment : 64 2017-05-07T16:02:54Z jackdaniel: phoe: in this particular occasion it has ;) 2017-05-07T16:02:55Z razzy: address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual 2017-05-07T16:02:58Z razzy: power management: ts fid vid ttp tm stc 100mhzsteps 2017-05-07T16:03:09Z Bike: you fucked up 2017-05-07T16:03:33Z phoe: jackdaniel: not really 2017-05-07T16:03:43Z beach: razzy: Don't do that again, please! 2017-05-07T16:04:09Z jackdaniel: well, events chain is pretty straight: you have recommended portacle, portacle didn't work, you tried to help him, he pasted system details 2017-05-07T16:04:46Z jackdaniel gets back to fixing the Listener 2017-05-07T16:05:16Z phoe: I specifically told him to use pastebin 2017-05-07T16:05:54Z phoe: minion: memo for fe[nl]ix: this channel needs more operators to act in case someone starts spamming the channel with multiple lines of text 2017-05-07T16:05:54Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell fe[nl]ix when he/she/it next speaks. 2017-05-07T16:06:14Z p_l: gah 2017-05-07T16:06:36Z p_l: sorry, I was looking somewhere else and couldn't take it :| 2017-05-07T16:08:02Z razzy: sorry, i have read just paste :], I would 2017-05-07T16:08:09Z razzy: not do that again :] 2017-05-07T16:08:31Z mazoe quit (Quit: mazoe) 2017-05-07T16:08:54Z razzy: was it so bad? 2017-05-07T16:09:44Z phoe: razzy: it is bad, yes. 2017-05-07T16:11:05Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-07T16:17:20Z velo-alien quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-07T16:18:33Z madalu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-07T16:21:02Z madalu`` joined #lisp 2017-05-07T16:21:28Z hazz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-05-07T16:30:54Z parsnip: (run-program "/usr/local/bin/ledger" '("--help")) is just showing 0 or 1, how can i get it to print help result in repl? 2017-05-07T16:32:23Z phoe: parsnip: are you using UIOP:RUN-PROGRAM? 2017-05-07T16:32:43Z parsnip: no, unprefixed, will try the library run-program next. 2017-05-07T16:32:50Z phoe: parsnip: use UIOP. 2017-05-07T16:33:36Z phoe: it's a cross-implementation portability library for dealing with OSes and filesystems. 2017-05-07T16:37:15Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/) 2017-05-07T16:38:20Z madalu`` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-07T16:39:28Z madalu`` joined #lisp 2017-05-07T16:44:07Z vtomole joined #lisp 2017-05-07T16:45:14Z madalu`` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T16:45:17Z paule32: http://paste.lisp.org/display/346068 2017-05-07T16:45:27Z paule32: jens@rechner ~/Projekte/ai/agent $ clisp 1.lisp 2017-05-07T16:45:27Z paule32: *** - PROGN: variable N2 has no value 2017-05-07T16:46:31Z Bike: because #. evaluates at read time 2017-05-07T16:46:52Z Bike: what even is this? the loop doesn't return anything, why did you put it there? 2017-05-07T16:47:05Z mazoe joined #lisp 2017-05-07T16:49:59Z velo-alien joined #lisp 2017-05-07T16:52:06Z paule32: pjb or pl had this idea 2017-05-07T16:52:19Z shka_: uhm 2017-05-07T16:52:31Z shka_: this is weird 2017-05-07T16:52:41Z shka_: that is it supposed to do? 2017-05-07T16:52:44Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2017-05-07T16:52:51Z shka_: *what 2017-05-07T16:53:04Z shka_: i can't speak english today 2017-05-07T16:53:06Z jackdaniel: I don't know, but the result is 42 :-) 2017-05-07T16:53:20Z shka_: heh 2017-05-07T16:53:49Z shka_: does it even compile? 2017-05-07T16:54:02Z paule32: no 2017-05-07T16:54:05Z nicknock joined #lisp 2017-05-07T16:54:05Z paule32: jens@rechner ~/Projekte/ai/agent $ clisp 1.lisp 2017-05-07T16:54:05Z paule32: *** - PROGN: variable N2 has no value 2017-05-07T16:54:08Z shka_: good 2017-05-07T16:54:16Z shka_: all is right with the world 2017-05-07T16:54:48Z jackdaniel: paule32: if you don't follow advices don't expect help on this channel 2017-05-07T16:54:54Z axion: We have told him repeatedly to read PCL because he is either just guessing or is reading the most awful literature 2017-05-07T16:55:49Z shka_: i have no idea what would be the worst lisp book 2017-05-07T16:56:03Z Bike: the last thing pjb said to you before giving up in the face of your bullheadedness was a normal find call with no #. 2017-05-07T16:56:40Z paule32: yes 2017-05-07T16:56:57Z adolf_stalin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T16:57:02Z jackdaniel: shka_: find random literature about LISP, shorten it in the presentation and print in postscript calling CL introduction ;-) 2017-05-07T16:57:48Z jackdaniel: +add some remarks about functional programming and advanced AI taken from the definitions from '70s 2017-05-07T16:57:58Z paule32: i don't understand, why x is given, and n2 not 2017-05-07T16:58:21Z paule32: but i call getName "JENS" "SWADA" 2017-05-07T16:58:26Z axion: The worst lisp book would have to be whatever those AutoLisp guys are reading. Their code is atrocious 2017-05-07T16:58:50Z jackdaniel: s/reading/smoking/ 2017-05-07T16:59:08Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2017-05-07T17:02:04Z ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 2017-05-07T17:08:58Z axion: phoe: reproducible...not very able to be isolated though 2017-05-07T17:10:17Z mazoe quit (Quit: mazoe) 2017-05-07T17:10:35Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-07T17:10:48Z nicknock quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-05-07T17:11:59Z phoe: axion: then in the worst case put your whole codebase up 2017-05-07T17:12:35Z axion: would if it was open 2017-05-07T17:12:39Z phoe: ;_; 2017-05-07T17:12:47Z phoe: I can't help you in this case. 2017-05-07T17:13:43Z bgg_ joined #lisp 2017-05-07T17:13:52Z axion: no worries. it's due to allocating an array on the stack, which is not very common to do or needed here anyway. 2017-05-07T17:14:37Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T17:14:51Z razzy: phoe: thank you, your pain was worth it. Portacle works. 2017-05-07T17:14:52Z EvW joined #lisp 2017-05-07T17:15:13Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2017-05-07T17:15:26Z phoe: razzy: I'm glad 2017-05-07T17:15:52Z phoe: (don't post stuff longer than 4 lines here, *do* use pastebins) 2017-05-07T17:18:53Z razzy: ok. 2017-05-07T17:19:28Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2017-05-07T17:21:19Z MrBusiness joined #lisp 2017-05-07T17:22:02Z sorressean quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-07T17:22:20Z killmaster quit (Quit: Bye!) 2017-05-07T17:22:42Z p_l: axion: AutoLISP is also a very old (no lexical scope) lisp 2017-05-07T17:22:53Z killmaster joined #lisp 2017-05-07T17:23:00Z killmaster quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-07T17:25:47Z killmaster joined #lisp 2017-05-07T17:26:17Z killmaster quit (Client Quit) 2017-05-07T17:28:06Z bgg_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-05-07T17:28:31Z Tex_Nick quit (Quit: In Linux, We Trust) 2017-05-07T17:31:08Z NeverDie joined #lisp 2017-05-07T17:33:00Z Baggers joined #lisp 2017-05-07T17:35:59Z vtomole 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