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2016-11-24T01:42:53Z fiddlerwoaroof: I've never found cl-annot pleasant to use
2016-11-24T01:43:23Z fiddlerwoaroof: for one thing, if you use something like paredit, it's annotations are really hard to deal with
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2016-11-24T02:38:17Z jusss: (defvar alist (quote ()))   alist is (quote ()) or just () ?
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2016-11-24T02:42:08Z edgar-rft: juss: alist is () what probably is printed as NIL
2016-11-24T02:42:33Z edgar-rft: *three s -> jusss^^
2016-11-24T02:42:41Z jusss: edgar-rft: I see, thanks
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2016-11-24T02:58:16Z drmeister: Any friendly arch users online?   I'm trying to debug clasp on an Amazon EC2 instance of arch linux and arch appears to be broken
2016-11-24T02:58:32Z drmeister: error: GPGME error: Invalid crypto engine
2016-11-24T02:58:36Z drmeister: GRRRRR
2016-11-24T02:59:01Z drmeister: Is there a way to tell Arch to complete reset itself?
2016-11-24T02:59:19Z akkad: its package manager will let you shoot your foot off
2016-11-24T02:59:45Z drmeister: I was just adding readline and it completely wigged out.
2016-11-24T03:00:42Z akkad: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman/Tips_and_tricks#Removing_everything_but_base_group
2016-11-24T03:01:17Z akkad: docker might be easier for reseting easily
2016-11-24T03:01:37Z akkad: there is an arch docker image for clasp I saw
2016-11-24T03:01:49Z akkad: pipping/clasp
2016-11-24T03:02:11Z akkad: no that's fedora
2016-11-24T03:02:32Z drmeister: Now it won't let me log in.   That's it.  I'm pulling the plug and starting again.
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2016-11-24T03:09:22Z drmeister: readline won't install from the start - great.
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2016-11-24T03:18:37Z ahungry: this looks similar to your issue https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=219674
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2016-11-24T03:33:09Z namesnick: Hi
2016-11-24T03:33:25Z namesnick: Can anyone help a beginner with packages?
2016-11-24T03:33:51Z namesnick: I'm getting a strange error while loading a file before defining a package
2016-11-24T03:40:38Z axion: What do you get? Also do you know the difference between packages and systems. They are different entities, and systems are similar to other language packages.
2016-11-24T03:42:42Z namesnick: I am loading a file that has many functions.  Those functions are exported to common-lisp-user
2016-11-24T03:43:16Z axion: ok?
2016-11-24T03:43:24Z namesnick: then I define my own package that uses common-lisp-user
2016-11-24T03:43:55Z namesnick: then I call one of those functions and return back to cl-user
2016-11-24T03:44:11Z namesnick: I do not know the difference between packages and systems
2016-11-24T03:44:54Z drmeister: I think this is my issue:  http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/323550/gnupg-on-arch-linux-broken-since-readline-upgrade-cant-find-libreadline-so-6
2016-11-24T03:45:01Z drmeister: Dammit - this is frustrating.
2016-11-24T03:45:09Z axion: namesnick: http://weitz.de/packages.html
2016-11-24T03:45:12Z namesnick: when I compile that file, using emacs and slime, I get name conflicts in both my and common-lisp-user packages
2016-11-24T03:45:57Z drmeister: I'm trying to debug a garbage collector issue on Clasp.   ASLR on OS X is completely thwarting me.  Every time I run Clasp I get different memory regions and I can't set a watch point where I know there is a problem.
2016-11-24T03:46:35Z drmeister: So I try to switch to linux.  Specifically Arch linux on Amazon EC2 because it installs CMAKE 3.6, which is required by llvm to build.
2016-11-24T03:46:37Z loke: namesnick: The best way to avoid having package/symbol issues is to keep a rule of thumb: Never :USE packages
2016-11-24T03:47:02Z drmeister: Arch linux appears to be currently hosed.
2016-11-24T03:47:27Z akkad: how does one typically deliver an image with a osicat.so?
2016-11-24T03:47:42Z axion: Heh I have been on the same Arch install since 2002
2016-11-24T03:47:48Z drmeister: Why do we screw with computers?  These things are trash.
2016-11-24T03:48:44Z akkad: drmeister: are there any linux packages for clasp yet?
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2016-11-24T03:49:07Z drmeister: akkad: No
2016-11-24T03:49:20Z drmeister: It's still under development.
2016-11-24T03:49:54Z fiddlerwoaroof: drmeister: you might try Debian testing has cmake 3.7
2016-11-24T03:49:55Z fiddlerwoaroof:  
2016-11-24T03:50:19Z fiddlerwoaroof: I can't seem to grammar
2016-11-24T03:50:31Z fiddlerwoaroof: Debian testing has cmake 3.7, so that might be an option?
2016-11-24T03:50:34Z drmeister: fiddlerwoaroof: I might - I'll see if I can find it for EC2
2016-11-24T03:51:39Z fiddlerwoaroof: Debian testing tends to be pretty stable, it's not bleeding edge like sid and it isn't usually outdated like their releases are.
2016-11-24T03:51:40Z fiddlerwoaroof:  
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2016-11-24T03:52:44Z drmeister: Is Debian testing "Jessie"?
2016-11-24T03:53:00Z loke: drmeister: "stretch"
2016-11-24T03:53:03Z fiddlerwoaroof: No, it's stretch
2016-11-24T03:53:30Z fiddlerwoaroof: You can take jessie, change "jessie" to "testing" in /etc/apt/sources.list and then apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
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2016-11-24T03:55:40Z namesnick: @axion I removed all instances of :USE and still have the issue
2016-11-24T03:56:30Z namesnick: The error happens at runtime when that function I called is used in the package I am trying to load
2016-11-24T03:57:05Z namesnick: It sees that I've already called the function so I'm assuming its assuming the function already exists and there is a name conflict
2016-11-24T03:58:17Z namesnick: Thanks for the link.  I read it but I still am puzzled on my issue
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2016-11-24T04:19:43Z drmeister: fiddlerwoaroof: That is very helpful.  I didn't know jessie could go to testing
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2016-11-24T04:21:03Z fiddlerwoaroof: Another option is to use debootstrap to install testing inside a chroot
2016-11-24T04:21:03Z fiddlerwoaroof:  
2016-11-24T04:22:16Z drmeister: fiddlerwoaroof: I don't see jessie in /etc/apt/sources.list
2016-11-24T04:23:00Z fiddlerwoaroof: What does it say after the url in the lines beginning "deb"?
2016-11-24T04:23:46Z fiddlerwoaroof: The repositories might actually be in /etc/apt/sources.list.d, depending on the person who made the AMI
2016-11-24T04:24:09Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/SKxiJtrH/
2016-11-24T04:24:36Z fiddlerwoaroof: You have an ubuntu instance there.
2016-11-24T04:24:56Z fiddlerwoaroof: "xenial" there is the distribution release name
2016-11-24T04:25:25Z drmeister: Sorry - I'm tired - this is the sixth virtual machine that I've set up.
2016-11-24T04:25:37Z drmeister: Debian - we want debian
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2016-11-24T04:32:28Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/wJB4xOF6/
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2016-11-24T04:32:36Z drmeister: So, change all jessie to testing?
2016-11-24T04:32:46Z fiddlerwoaroof: Yeah, that should work
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2016-11-24T04:41:23Z axion: namesnick: You didn't show us what you were doing. You probably want to at least show us your system definition and how you are using this file.
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2016-11-24T04:42:41Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-11-24T04:44:00Z fiddlerwoaroof: morning, beach
2016-11-24T04:46:04Z fiddlerwoaroof: It's amazing how even fairly minor things can make a language difficult to use, I've been using clojure a lot recently (I'm looking for work, an clojure is my best shot at paying work in lisp) and the lack of parentheses surrounding the names and values inside a let is frustrating.
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2016-11-24T04:48:31Z beach: fiddlerwoaroof: Your frustration can probably be attributed to habit.
2016-11-24T04:48:51Z beach: fiddlerwoaroof: Humans get used to that kind of stuff, and they no longer get frustrated after a while.
2016-11-24T04:48:57Z fiddlerwoaroof: Maybe, it also makes deleting bindings a bit more painful
2016-11-24T04:49:10Z beach: Sure.
2016-11-24T04:49:22Z beach: Humans get used to being unproductive.
2016-11-24T04:49:30Z beach: But the frustration about it goes away.
2016-11-24T04:49:30Z fiddlerwoaroof: But, yeah, I'm slowly getting a bit used to it
2016-11-24T04:49:31Z fiddlerwoaroof:  
2016-11-24T04:50:50Z drmeister: Cool - that worked -thank you.
2016-11-24T04:51:07Z akkad: anyone get lem working?
2016-11-24T04:51:16Z fiddlerwoaroof: drmeister: no problem
2016-11-24T04:51:37Z fiddlerwoaroof: akkad: I started it successfully once, didn't use it though
2016-11-24T04:51:43Z akkad: k
2016-11-24T04:51:55Z fiddlerwoaroof: This, right https://github.com/cxxxr/lem ?
2016-11-24T04:52:31Z fiddlerwoaroof: It's not actually in quicklisp, so you have to clone it to local-projects first.
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2016-11-24T04:53:11Z akkad: right.
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2016-11-24T04:53:34Z loke: akkad: I got it working a few days ago.
2016-11-24T04:53:37Z loke: It's pretty neat.
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2016-11-24T06:46:15Z jackdaniel: o/
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2016-11-24T07:46:48Z django_: hey
2016-11-24T07:46:55Z django_: anyone recommend tutorials?
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2016-11-24T08:00:13Z fiddlerwoaroof: for what, learning lisp?
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2016-11-24T08:00:31Z fiddlerwoaroof: minion tell djang_ about pcl
2016-11-24T08:00:54Z fiddlerwoaroof: minion: tell django_ about pcl
2016-11-24T08:00:58Z minion: django_: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2016-11-24T08:01:10Z django_: fiddlerwoaroof, yes learning lisp
2016-11-24T08:02:41Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2016-11-24T08:03:05Z fouric: django_: http://www.p-cos.net/lisp/guide.html is also nice as a "meta-tutorial", almost
2016-11-24T08:03:28Z fouric: it has a lot of history, an overview of Lisp features (so that you know enough to search for those things online), and links to other tutorials
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2016-11-24T08:03:39Z django_: what kinds of projects have you guys used lisp for?
2016-11-24T08:04:40Z vtomole: Lisp can be used for all types of things: check out this website:http://cliki.net/
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2016-11-24T08:04:45Z django_: the reason i ask is im bored, id like to work on something but dont have any ideas
2016-11-24T08:05:08Z vtomole: You can help me work on the mezzano operating system.
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2016-11-24T08:05:49Z Cymew: Go big or go home, eh? ;)
2016-11-24T08:06:23Z django_: vtomole, ok
2016-11-24T08:06:23Z django_: what can i do haha
2016-11-24T08:06:45Z django_: how efficient is it to write an OS in lisp?
2016-11-24T08:06:54Z Cymew: django_: You can just pick something that fits your interest from cliki.net and check it out on git and start sending in pull requests.
2016-11-24T08:07:36Z vtomole: django_:https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano
2016-11-24T08:07:50Z vtomole: Im currently working on making a browser
2016-11-24T08:08:18Z vtomole: Its a very awesome os! I write all my lisp code with it
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2016-11-24T08:09:39Z fouric: vtomole: wait, really? it's usable?
2016-11-24T08:09:50Z fouric thought it wasn't quite ready for desktop use yet
2016-11-24T08:10:36Z fouric: w/c
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2016-11-24T08:11:11Z vtomole: Nope, Its fully operational, I encourage you to build it!
2016-11-24T08:11:25Z vtomole: It has an irc client
2016-11-24T08:11:30Z vtomole: and an editor
2016-11-24T08:12:26Z fouric: vtomole: are you, by chance, using it now?
2016-11-24T08:12:31Z fouric installs virtualbox
2016-11-24T08:12:48Z vtomole: Yes I am
2016-11-24T08:13:02Z fouric: :D
2016-11-24T08:13:04Z fouric: neat!
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2016-11-24T08:17:56Z vtomole: Mezzano is a common lisp implementation so I don't use sbcl anymore.
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2016-11-24T08:18:32Z django_: vtomole, why would anyone use that OS?
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2016-11-24T08:19:01Z fouric: ...because it's a heck of a lot more fun and easier to hack on a kernel and userspace written in Lisp than ones written in C or bash
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2016-11-24T08:19:38Z django_: fouric, "to hack"?
2016-11-24T08:20:07Z fouric: do you not understand the definition of hacking or why you would want to do it to your OS? (i can clarify either)
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2016-11-24T08:20:36Z django_: fouric, clarify hacking hah
2016-11-24T08:20:42Z django_: and then the second lol
2016-11-24T08:20:58Z fouric: oh man
2016-11-24T08:21:05Z django_: okay just the first them
2016-11-24T08:21:07Z django_: then*
2016-11-24T08:21:12Z fouric: (that's the harder one :P)
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2016-11-24T08:21:40Z fouric: i personally define it as "the manipulation of complex systems, *especially* code, but ESR does a better job than i do: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacking-howto.html#intro
2016-11-24T08:21:58Z fouric: applied to lisp and mezzano, it means to write "non-enterprisey" code, generally
2016-11-24T08:22:21Z django_: fouric, non-enterprise code for what though?
2016-11-24T08:22:25Z fouric: e.g., if i were to go and code a really quick and dirty prototype for a text editor idea that i had, that would be a hack, and the verb would be hacking
2016-11-24T08:22:27Z fouric: anything!
2016-11-24T08:22:27Z Cymew: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hack.html is also quite succinct.
2016-11-24T08:22:55Z fouric: it could be a game, a text editor, a programming language, part of your OS's kernel, just a cool macro idea that you had...
2016-11-24T08:23:03Z fouric: it's very much a *playful* sort of coding
2016-11-24T08:23:17Z fouric: "ooh, i bet that i could write a vim clone that operated on s-expressions instead of plain text"
2016-11-24T08:23:31Z fouric: *five hours of hacking later* "well, i can use h, j, and k, but if i use l, it crashes..."
2016-11-24T08:23:49Z django_: ah
2016-11-24T08:23:50Z django_: gotcha
2016-11-24T08:23:51Z fouric: (incf Cymew) that is also an excellent link
2016-11-24T08:24:03Z fouric: ...so, applied to Mezzano...
2016-11-24T08:24:22Z fouric: ...some people (like me), as they learn more about Lisp and become better hackers, want to optimize their environments
2016-11-24T08:24:59Z fouric: they start by tweaking and optimizing first their text editor, then their windowing manager, shell, packaging system, userspace, and finally their OS
2016-11-24T08:25:11Z fouric: (er, as an example, but a fairly common one)
2016-11-24T08:25:40Z fouric: ...and Mezzano, being (1) not a terribly large codebase compared to, say, the linux kernel and (2) written in Lisp, is an *excellent* thing to hack on
2016-11-24T08:26:01Z fouric: ...and because it also contains a shell, text editor, and windowing manager, you can hack on *everything* all at once from within the system itself
2016-11-24T08:26:01Z django_: gotcha
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2016-11-24T08:26:37Z fouric: (...and if you don't actually want to do all that tweaking, it's still occasionally helpful to be able to fix a pain point in your dev process)
2016-11-24T08:26:53Z raydeejay: or you can just subsume it into a single phrase
2016-11-24T08:26:58Z raydeejay: "Lisp all the way down"
2016-11-24T08:27:20Z fouric: :D
2016-11-24T08:27:55Z fouric: (Mezzano is written in *Common Lisp*, too, not some special dialect)
2016-11-24T08:28:27Z raydeejay: let's not use the word "dialect"... xD
2016-11-24T08:28:32Z fouric: (...although imo we might need a new Lisp soon, given how hardware is beginning to move from high single-thread performance to massively parallel)
2016-11-24T08:28:37Z fouric: hehe
2016-11-24T08:29:00Z Cymew: There's always GLS *Lisp, right?
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2016-11-24T08:29:10Z fouric actually hasn't heard of this thing
2016-11-24T08:29:19Z raydeejay: the problem is that somehow the kind of environment which supported the eventual creation of Common Lisp doesn't seem that possible, nowadays
2016-11-24T08:29:28Z vtomole: Since lisp can easily be written in lisp, Its an awesome os because you can write lisps in the lisp that you are lisping on, I'm working on building a scheme in mezzano.
2016-11-24T08:30:09Z Cymew: fouric: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*Lisp
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2016-11-24T08:30:36Z Cymew: But I was wrong about GLS. I thought he was initiator, but it was Lasser and Omohundro.
2016-11-24T08:32:03Z fouric: ty again for links, Cymew
2016-11-24T08:32:27Z fouric: raydeejay: that sounds ominous but interesting. elaborate?
2016-11-24T08:32:53Z django_: whats a program that is 10-50 lines long lol
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2016-11-24T08:33:34Z raydeejay: well, there were many lisps before CL, and during CL's inception, and knowledg was shared and people from different places worked on it, during years, and so forth
2016-11-24T08:33:52Z raydeejay: and there weren't that many buzzwords around
2016-11-24T08:34:38Z raydeejay: if you want more, you'll have to wait
2016-11-24T08:34:48Z raydeejay leaves for school transport duty and other domestic affairs
2016-11-24T08:36:03Z vtomole: django_: If you are interested in being a lisp hacker, We can get you started.
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2016-11-24T08:37:25Z fouric: django_: ^
2016-11-24T08:37:28Z fouric has to sleep now
2016-11-24T08:38:11Z razzy likes the idea "lisp all the way down"
2016-11-24T08:38:35Z django_: i love reading paul grahams essays and there are many on lisp
2016-11-24T08:38:42Z django_: so ive always been intruiged
2016-11-24T08:38:45Z django_: and right now i dont have anything to do
2016-11-24T08:39:04Z razzy: how do you feel about reactive programming? is it new lisp?
2016-11-24T08:39:48Z razzy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_programming
2016-11-24T08:40:00Z django_: vtomole, ^
2016-11-24T08:40:02Z loke: razzy: Which is just a hipster version of dataflow programming.
2016-11-24T08:40:08Z Cymew: django_: https://shinmera.github.io/portacle/ might be useful to get started, if you don't go all in and start develop in Mezzano.
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2016-11-24T08:40:18Z razzy: yes dataflow programming
2016-11-24T08:41:05Z razzy: dataflow programming stateless functions
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2016-11-24T08:42:43Z vtomole: django_: Do you have emacs?
2016-11-24T08:43:03Z django_: vtomole, no
2016-11-24T08:43:29Z vtomole: Which os do you have?
2016-11-24T08:43:34Z razzy: loke: I want to learn lisp as my main language. I want to know, if it is going to last.
2016-11-24T08:43:38Z django_: i just use sublime text
2016-11-24T08:43:42Z django_: vtomole, galliumOS
2016-11-24T08:43:54Z django_: you heard of it?
2016-11-24T08:43:59Z django_: https://galliumos.org
2016-11-24T08:44:26Z razzy: dataflow programming seems more brain like
2016-11-24T08:45:11Z loke: razzy: It's lasted this far, and other languages still haven't caught up.
2016-11-24T08:45:29Z loke: Implementing dataflow functionality in Lisp is trivial. I've done it for some features.
2016-11-24T08:45:34Z loke: s/features/uses/
2016-11-24T08:45:38Z vtomole: dajngo_ sadly no :(
2016-11-24T08:46:07Z vtomole: django_: Can you run sudo apt-get install on it?
2016-11-24T08:46:12Z django_: vtomole, yes
2016-11-24T08:46:16Z django_: its based on ubuntu i think
2016-11-24T08:46:32Z django_: idk about operating systems but they said its somehow related to ubuntu
2016-11-24T08:46:48Z vtomole: All run these three commands on your terminal "sudo apt-get install emacs sbcl slim"
2016-11-24T08:47:09Z vtomole: sorry *slime
2016-11-24T08:47:24Z django_: going to take a while haha
2016-11-24T08:47:26Z django_: im in china
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2016-11-24T08:47:46Z vtomole: Is the bandwitdh slow there or something?
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2016-11-24T08:48:12Z django_: vtomole, where im living i dont have good wifi
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2016-11-24T08:49:04Z vtomole: Try running that command. Those applications are not that big.
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2016-11-24T08:50:09Z django_: yeah i did
2016-11-24T08:50:23Z django_: its going to take like 1 hr lol
2016-11-24T08:51:58Z razzy: loke: thank you
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2016-11-24T08:53:06Z vtomole: django_: In the meantime, use this:http://learnlispthehardway.org/try-lisp/
2016-11-24T08:53:40Z django_: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/introduction-why-lisp.html
2016-11-24T08:53:46Z django_: checking out this book hah
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2016-11-24T09:07:29Z razzy: lisp seems to be written for massive paraelism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_Machines_Corporation
2016-11-24T09:09:01Z razzy: and more recent endeavour https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=silicon+brain+1000000+arm (I expect lisp like OS)
2016-11-24T09:15:08Z vtomole: why arm?
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2016-11-24T09:17:51Z jasom: hmm, moving away the older spl source made things work; I'm not sure why I had to do that though.
2016-11-24T09:18:35Z jasom: sorry, wrong channel
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2016-11-24T09:23:59Z razzy: vtomole: arm is energy efficient
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2016-11-24T09:28:57Z vtomole: razzy: ahh i see. Unrelated question, I'm trying to use cl-bencode:https://github.com/nja/cl-bencode If you scroll down to example, Its a very terrible one, and I can't get it to work, Are you by chance familiar with this program?
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2016-11-24T09:29:53Z razzy: vtomole: no way :]
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2016-11-24T09:32:29Z vtomole: I still think you can help me. This line "( (gethash "announce" *)" Is awful because the hash-table variable is an asterisk for some reason, and I don't know how to change it.
2016-11-24T09:33:53Z loke: vtomole: The asterisk is the return valur from the previous function call in the REPL
2016-11-24T09:34:07Z loke: Normally you would capture that in a cariable when the first function is called
2016-11-24T09:34:16Z loke: so, instead of (foo) (bar *)
2016-11-24T09:34:24Z loke: you do: (let ((x (foo))) (bar x))
2016-11-24T09:35:18Z vtomole: DO you know why it works in the repl but not in a .lisp file?
2016-11-24T09:36:27Z loke: vtomole: Because the * feature is part of the REPL.
2016-11-24T09:36:36Z vtomole: ahh :)
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2016-11-24T09:42:39Z younder: Using atom editor (linter-retext mode) on slime/Readme.md the editor reports 'Don’t use “slime”, it’s profane at line 1 col 48' . Well gave me a good laugh :)
2016-11-24T09:43:25Z Cymew: Atom has a profanity filter?
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2016-11-24T09:43:47Z younder: the retext lint mode apparently does.
2016-11-24T09:43:59Z Cymew: Good grief.
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2016-11-24T09:47:54Z razzy: vtomole: I am very poor lisper :]
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2016-11-24T09:48:30Z loke: razzy: poor as in bad, or little money?
2016-11-24T09:48:41Z razzy: loke: like bad :]
2016-11-24T09:48:53Z loke: razzy: Easily fixed.
2016-11-24T09:48:58Z loke: Start by reading PCL.
2016-11-24T09:49:01Z vtomole: I started lisp 9 months ago, we are going to make it :), Just put in the time
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2016-11-24T09:49:27Z razzy: loke: and I also do not have much money :D
2016-11-24T09:49:55Z vtomole: Its free django posted the link earlier
2016-11-24T09:50:23Z vtomole: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/
2016-11-24T09:50:24Z razzy: loke red it :]
2016-11-24T09:51:52Z razzy: I have read half of onlisp :]
2016-11-24T09:53:29Z razzy: but I did not write much code, yet. I like the lisp lore.
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2016-11-24T09:55:50Z loke: younder: You should be using Emacs.
2016-11-24T09:56:15Z vtomole: razzy: So then you do know lisp, what project are you working on right now?
2016-11-24T09:56:47Z razzy: vtomole: lisp bot?
2016-11-24T09:57:37Z razzy: I am trying to make IRC lisp bot to talk
2016-11-24T09:58:04Z razzy: "AI" "research" :]
2016-11-24T09:58:36Z igam: razzy: bot testing should be done in your own testing channel.
2016-11-24T09:59:38Z razzy: igam :D do I look like bot?
2016-11-24T10:00:51Z igam: razzy: no. I'd have expected a razbot in #razbot ;-)
2016-11-24T10:03:32Z razzy: igam: :D :D you are right :]. I tested basics on q . I know what I want to do, but I did not crack lisp yet
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2016-11-24T10:11:56Z django_: razzy, based on a model?
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2016-11-24T10:19:33Z razzy: django_: RNNs (LSMT) and Reinforcement learning (DQN)
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2016-11-24T10:20:06Z razzy: basically
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2016-11-24T10:28:28Z django_: razzy, ahh idk shit about them
2016-11-24T10:28:33Z django_: i only know very little about signal processing
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2016-11-24T10:30:35Z razzy: django_: And I know very little about lisp programming :] and it is LSTM long short term memory
2016-11-24T10:31:42Z django_: ahh i havent heard
2016-11-24T10:31:53Z django_: well you can always learn the language and practice
2016-11-24T10:31:58Z django_: i find learning about AI a bit hard
2016-11-24T10:32:04Z django_: er let me rephare
2016-11-24T10:32:06Z django_: rephrase
2016-11-24T10:32:08Z django_: i find it hard haha
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2016-11-24T10:35:50Z vtomole: django_: did your download finish?
2016-11-24T10:36:08Z django_: vtomole, no got canceled
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2016-11-24T10:38:05Z django_: ill try again
2016-11-24T10:38:29Z django_: ohh says 15 min haha
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2016-11-24T10:44:11Z django_: vtomole, where are you located?
2016-11-24T10:44:54Z igam: razzy: do you have the irc part solved already? I have two examples, botihn and botil: http://informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/botihn/botihn-fr.html   https://gitlab.com/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/tree/master/small-cl-pgms/botihn   https://gitlab.com/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/tree/master/small-cl-pgms/botil
2016-11-24T10:45:38Z vtomole: django_: United States, Ames, Iowa. How about you?
2016-11-24T10:45:50Z django_: ahh cool
2016-11-24T10:46:09Z django_: vtomole, ahh neat Im American but traveling around the world
2016-11-24T10:46:11Z django_: currently in Shanghai
2016-11-24T10:46:19Z django_: vtomole, You always up this late?
2016-11-24T10:46:50Z vtomole: We are on break.
2016-11-24T10:46:58Z django_: vtomole, Ah you are in uni?
2016-11-24T10:47:11Z vtomole: Yeah Computer engineering major
2016-11-24T10:47:52Z django_: awesome
2016-11-24T10:48:01Z django_: vtomole, which uni?
2016-11-24T10:48:14Z vtomole: Iowa State University
2016-11-24T10:48:24Z django_: cool
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2016-11-24T10:50:58Z razzy: django_: this is DQN learning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1eYniJ0Rnk in action.
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2016-11-24T10:51:11Z django_: razzy, my vpn is off right now :/
2016-11-24T10:51:12Z django_: Im in China
2016-11-24T10:51:14Z django_: ill watch it later
2016-11-24T10:52:21Z razzy: django_: u are connected from USA
2016-11-24T10:52:33Z django_: razzy, hmm?
2016-11-24T10:52:41Z django_: i should be cloacked
2016-11-24T10:52:43Z django_: cloaked*
2016-11-24T10:55:45Z razzy: ach, you are cloaked by USA server (I am not terribly good with IRC)
2016-11-24T10:55:57Z django_: razzy, haha idk either
2016-11-24T10:56:08Z django_: but my friend told me to always use a password and ill be cloaked
2016-11-24T10:56:20Z django_: nickserv identify that is
2016-11-24T10:57:35Z razzy: igam: I have solved the IRC part with https://github.com/Shinmera/colleen
2016-11-24T10:57:45Z igam: ok.
2016-11-24T10:58:28Z razzy: igam: and I don't know spanish
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2016-11-24T11:01:26Z razzy: sorry french
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2016-11-24T11:03:09Z vtomole: Your browser can translate for you
2016-11-24T11:03:35Z igam: razzy: the biggest AI employeer of the world provides a very nice automatic translation tool.
2016-11-24T11:04:40Z razzy: igam: extra unnecessary step :]
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2016-11-24T11:18:28Z django_: E: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/s/sbcl/sbcl_1.3.1-1ubuntu2_amd64.deb Connection failed [IP: 91.189.88.149 80] E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
2016-11-24T11:18:39Z django_: are those stored in google servers?
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2016-11-24T11:20:02Z vtomole: hmm try "sudo apt-get install clisp"
2016-11-24T11:22:03Z loke: django_: Don't ever use the package-provided Lisps
2016-11-24T11:22:17Z loke: Especially not SBCL which is always severely outdated. Just download from the official page.
2016-11-24T11:22:22Z loke: Or compile it yourself.
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2016-11-24T11:22:34Z vtomole: loke: I wanted to make it easy on him as possible.
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2016-11-24T11:39:46Z malice`: loke: *unless you're using Gentoo.
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2016-11-24T12:04:29Z flip214: loke: debian has 1.3.11 in testing...
2016-11-24T12:04:49Z flip214: oh sorry, in unstable. testing is 1.3.7.
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2016-11-24T14:38:00Z django_: vtomole, back lol
2016-11-24T14:38:04Z django_: trying the sudo apt-get install clisp
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2016-11-24T16:04:19Z drmeister: Does anyone use Amazon EC2?   If so, I'm trying to increase the disk space available for a clasp development environment in Debian - the default gave me 8GB and I can see no way to set it larger before I start.  What is the proper way to increase storage?
2016-11-24T16:04:41Z drmeister: The recipes on the web seem really clunky
2016-11-24T16:05:31Z prxq: you are hosting a debian box on EC2? Frankly, I'd just get a box somewhere else.
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2016-11-24T16:08:58Z drmeister: prxq: Where?
2016-11-24T16:10:14Z drmeister: Paying a few bucks out of my pocket has been easier than finding and installing a box that I can access over the internet.
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2016-11-24T16:11:59Z prxq: drmeister: you've got privmsg
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2016-11-24T16:15:30Z jurov: drmeister: unless you already have something that allows you to add new devices to extend diskspace (raid or btrfs) then not possible
2016-11-24T16:15:34Z Xach: drmeister: for what it's worth, i use a dedicated host from OVH for quicklisp stuff.
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2016-11-24T16:15:59Z jurov: drmeister: you have to get new EBS volume and copy stuff there by hand
2016-11-24T16:16:11Z drmeister: Here's what I'm doing.    I develop on my OS X laptop.  Occasionally I want to try stuff on Linux.
2016-11-24T16:17:04Z drmeister: So I use Amazon EC2 because I can set up a server, build on it for a few hours and then suspend it.
2016-11-24T16:17:38Z drmeister: It's a couple of dollars here and there.   But I need a fairly beefy machine.   4-8 cores, 40 GBHD, 32GB ram.
2016-11-24T16:17:42Z igam: drmeister: you can install a linux system in VirtualBox on MacOSX. It runs nicely and economically.
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2016-11-24T16:17:56Z prxq: drmeister: you can also run a virtual linux server on your OS X laptop
2016-11-24T16:18:10Z igam: drmeister: http://www.simplehelp.net/2015/06/09/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-your-mac/
2016-11-24T16:18:20Z drmeister: igam: VirtualBox get's corrupted way too often - I haven't been happy with it.
2016-11-24T16:18:48Z igam: I never seen any such problem with recent VirtualBox (since a couple of years).
2016-11-24T16:19:35Z igam: You only have to be careful and only use vboxmanage to manipulate the virtual disks and virtual machines. (even a simple virtual disk copy).
2016-11-24T16:20:18Z drmeister: All I'm saying is I set up a VirtualBox, use it a few times and it comes up dead.   I have to store it on an external drive because my laptop doesn't have enough HD to support the image.
2016-11-24T16:20:54Z igam: ok.
2016-11-24T16:21:10Z prxq: drmeister: i gess you are hosed, then :-)
2016-11-24T16:22:15Z jurov: drmeister: yes unfortunately, to support future resizing  you need to redo your image with btrfs or lvm. though, if you're lucky you have btrfs installed
2016-11-24T16:22:24Z sjl: does linode do hourly billing these days?
2016-11-24T16:22:26Z jurov: some distros do it, dunno about debian
2016-11-24T16:23:29Z igam: Cannot you just add a (virtual) disk and mount it on a running VM?
2016-11-24T16:24:12Z jurov: ^or this
2016-11-24T16:24:29Z igam: attach new virtual disk on /dev/sdb ; parted /dev/sdb ; mke2fs -j /dev/sdb1 ; mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt ; et voilà ?
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2016-11-24T16:31:01Z drmeister: In a few days I'll get a new laptop - then I'll have more storage.  Maybe I'll look at VirtualBox again.
2016-11-24T16:32:10Z jurov: anyone knows why are macros not expanded in start of block? like ((mymacro x) ...) causes error that mymacro is not a function
2016-11-24T16:32:13Z drmeister: Right now I either need a way to shut down ALSR on OS X or some experimental Linux distro that supports Clasp development.
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2016-11-24T16:38:22Z drmeister: From what I'm reading about ASLR (Address Space Layout Randomization) and DEP (Data Execution Prevention) - there is a push in modern operating systems to implement these "features" that are inimical to Common Lisp.  Especially DEP.
2016-11-24T16:38:50Z malice`: jurov: Interesting question. My guess would be that function calls need to have special form(namely, (name args), ((lambda) args), (macro args) or (special-form args)).
2016-11-24T16:39:27Z H4ns: "let's use unsafe languages all over and then cripple the machines to protect us"
2016-11-24T16:39:32Z malice`: And reader validates that; thus, the macro never gets to compilation phase
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2016-11-24T16:45:02Z igam: jurov: the design is that the first item of an applicative list is NOT evaluated in CL: we want to be able to determine what to do efficiently at compilation time.
2016-11-24T16:45:03Z jurov: malice`: i see
2016-11-24T16:45:37Z igam: You can always write (mymacro (x) …) instead, or even: (mysyntax ((mymacro x) …)).
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2016-11-24T16:47:35Z jurov: okay
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2016-11-24T17:16:27Z knobo: Whenever something is evaluated in non-top-level, we can not know the content of *package*, right?
2016-11-24T17:17:13Z knobo: We only know the value of *package* in top level forms. And that is the value of the previous in-package call.
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2016-11-24T17:20:13Z knobo: the package name/object is used as configuration name several places. For example in envy.
2016-11-24T17:20:18Z knobo: and caveman2
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2016-11-24T17:24:05Z django_: vtomole, hey you around?
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2016-11-24T17:25:09Z django_: hey razzy
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2016-11-24T17:29:51Z shrdlu68: knobo: What makes you think so?
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2016-11-24T17:53:08Z igam: knobo: *package* is always bound to a package.  It could be a deleted package, (and this would have implementation dependent consequences), but still.  In some implementations it's impossible to bind it to something else than a package.
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2016-11-24T17:53:36Z igam: knobo: so of course yuo can always get the value of *package*.
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2016-11-24T17:54:13Z igam: knobo: (defvar *package-when-evaluating-not-top-level-form*)     (let ((not-top-level)) (setf *package-when-evaluating-not-top-level-form* *package*))     (print *package-when-evaluating-not-top-level-form*)
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2016-11-24T18:09:32Z knobo: What I'm thinking about is that when you call afunction, *package* is not the value of the package that a function is defined in.
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2016-11-24T21:11:23Z akkad: can you use (defclass foo () (foo :type STRING :initarg :foo)) (defclass bar () (foo :type foo :initarg :foo))? where a class is passed as the type for a slot in another class?
2016-11-24T21:17:12Z vtomole:  /join #ipfs
2016-11-24T21:17:25Z akkad: irc is hard
2016-11-24T21:17:28Z vtomole: lol
2016-11-24T21:18:29Z vtomole: Have you tried running that example? I think you need to create a foo instance before you put it in the bar slot
2016-11-24T21:19:22Z akkad: or find-class
2016-11-24T21:20:22Z vtomole: yes
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2016-11-24T21:21:29Z shrdlu68: akkad: I don't know, but that would mean that a class is implicitly a type...
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2016-11-24T21:21:58Z shrdlu68: akkad: From ClTl (not the spec per se, so it may be wrong) "The Common Lisp Object System maps the space of classes into the Common Lisp type space. Every class that has a proper name has a corresponding type with the same name."
2016-11-24T21:22:17Z akkad: ok cool
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2016-11-24T21:24:28Z PuercoPop: is there a response body stream available to the handler in hunchentoot?
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2016-11-24T21:28:48Z shrdlu68: PuercoPop: I don't think so, the closest I can think of is &key want-stream in #'raw-post-data.
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2016-11-24T21:34:18Z PuercoPop: shrdlu68: dang, well one can always use WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING
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2016-11-24T21:42:48Z mykon: excluding 'hello world' whats the simplest program exercise to do?
2016-11-24T21:43:25Z antoszka: mykon: write a quine. :)
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2016-11-24T21:43:35Z mykon: it should be something that transforms an input.
2016-11-24T21:43:52Z mykon: antoszka: what's that?
2016-11-24T21:44:08Z antoszka: mykon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quine_%28computing%29
2016-11-24T21:44:20Z mykon: and what's the operation/function whatever that's most easy to understand?
2016-11-24T21:45:24Z prxq: mykon: implement the identity function
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2016-11-24T21:46:05Z mykon: prxq: what does that do? which lisp feature uses?
2016-11-24T21:46:33Z prxq: almost none. So that's pretty simple.
2016-11-24T21:47:10Z prxq: Typical exercises that actually make sense may be implementing the factorial function, or the fibonacci sequence
2016-11-24T21:47:14Z BusFactor1: mykon: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/l99/ simple to hard
2016-11-24T21:47:50Z mykon: BusFactor1: thanks, because I was about to ask for 2nd and 3rd easy example.
2016-11-24T21:48:22Z BusFactor1: this is a better link: http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~meidanis/courses/mc336/2006s2/funcional/L-99_Ninety-Nine_Lisp_Problems.html
2016-11-24T21:48:30Z BusFactor1: has the actual problem descriptions
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2016-11-24T21:54:17Z mykon: thanks
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2016-11-24T22:53:44Z phoe: P01: #'LAST, P02: (lambda (x) (last x 2)), P03: #'NTH, P04: LENGTH, P05: #'REVERSE, P06: (lambda (x) (eql x (reverse x))), P07: #'ALEXANDRIA:FLATTEN, P08: #'REMOVE-DUPLICATES
2016-11-24T22:54:06Z phoe: hell, a lot of these cases actually have functions in the standard CL
2016-11-24T22:54:49Z phoe: s/eql/equal/
2016-11-24T22:54:50Z BusFactor1: you learn more writing them yourself, but yes, the beginning ones are pretty easy
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2016-11-24T22:55:04Z phoe: yes, I know the case here is implementing all of these functions yourself
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2016-11-24T22:55:22Z phoe: but I look at these things again after about a year+ of experiencing myself in Lisp
2016-11-24T22:55:38Z phoe: and a lot of these are familiar
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2016-11-24T23:10:23Z akkad: addicting isnt it
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2016-11-24T23:15:45Z phoe: it is
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2016-11-24T23:27:32Z edgar-rft: OMG, one day we will need deprivation therapy!
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