2016-09-07T00:00:42Z phoe: Got it.
2016-09-07T00:01:17Z phoe: (I didn't know that functions created using DEFUN are called closures.)
2016-09-07T00:01:17Z pillton: The word function is overloaded in this case. The functional paradigm requires operators which do not mutate their input arguments.
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2016-09-07T00:03:17Z pillton: defun is syntactic sugar for (setf fdefinition).
2016-09-07T00:04:53Z XachX_: Not every defun or lambda produces a closure.
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2016-09-07T00:05:27Z phoe: That's what I was thinking. A defun or lambda doesn't need to close over any data.
2016-09-07T00:05:45Z phoe: It can be (lambda (x) (+ x x)) or something.
2016-09-07T00:05:48Z XachX_: There may be nothing over which to close.
2016-09-07T00:06:04Z XachX_: phoe: good example.
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2016-09-07T00:06:06Z pillton: The term closure is used in the hyperspec for that case.
2016-09-07T00:06:12Z pillton: clhs function
2016-09-07T00:06:12Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_fn.htm
2016-09-07T00:06:22Z pillton: "If name is a lambda expression, then a lexical closure is returned."
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2016-09-07T00:08:21Z phoe: I didn't know this one.
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2016-09-07T00:10:12Z pillton: I do agree there should be a term for closures created from lambda forms without free variables.
2016-09-07T00:11:07Z pillton: There probably is one, but I don't have my books handy.
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2016-09-07T00:11:39Z phoe: Well.
2016-09-07T00:11:49Z phoe: I could argue that (lambda (x) (+ x x)) closes over #'+.
2016-09-07T00:12:07Z phoe: Which is how SICP did explain it, too.
2016-09-07T00:12:23Z pillton: Yes, you are right. My apologies.
2016-09-07T00:12:27Z phoe: But then (lambda (x) x) closes over... well.
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2016-09-07T00:13:41Z phoe: Oh well. I guess it closes over Lisp runtime so it is executable later on.
2016-09-07T00:13:49Z phoe goes to sleep
2016-09-07T00:15:01Z phoe: Night, #lisp
2016-09-07T00:15:08Z pillton: Good night.
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2016-09-07T00:33:34Z PuercoPop: phoe: There is https://github.com/danshapero/cl-hamt
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2016-09-07T01:11:22Z raydeejay: is it possible to get a somewhat smaller executable out of buildapp than what it spits out by default?
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2016-09-07T01:21:00Z Fare: probably
2016-09-07T01:21:15Z Fare: if speed is not critical, use clisp or ccl instead of sbcl
2016-09-07T01:22:28Z Fare: and/or use different proclaim optimize settings
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2016-09-07T01:52:42Z raydeejay: anyone ever hooked up stuff to xinetd? I'm not having much luck trying to figure out why a local connection works fine but a remote one gets disconnected immediately after it succeeds
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2016-09-07T01:58:20Z BRFennPocock: are you certain the server process doesn't itself bail out?
2016-09-07T01:58:43Z BRFennPocock: eg, if you were to just run it from a terminal, it responds as you'd expect?
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2016-09-07T02:01:14Z raydeejay: yes
2016-09-07T02:01:48Z raydeejay: and it works if I nc 0 1234, but not if I nc from another machine, it succeds in connecting (or so claims nc -v) and then just exits
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2016-09-07T02:09:17Z BRFennPocock: and no interesting log entries? I'll assume you've checked the config file for "only-from" or somesuch
2016-09-07T02:10:36Z raydeejay: the proper ip is in the file... I'm trying to figure out where are the logs ^^
2016-09-07T02:11:50Z BRFennPocock: you can set it up in the service file … what log method to use — maybe redirect to a file
2016-09-07T02:11:56Z raydeejay: mmmmm it seems it's denying the connection (and failing to fail the deny file)?
2016-09-07T02:12:07Z raydeejay: let me create a file and see if it spits it out
2016-09-07T02:13:12Z raydeejay: yeah... now to figure out why it is denying the connection
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2016-09-07T02:15:35Z BRFennPocock: The manpage has a bunch of extra fields you might want to log also…
2016-09-07T02:21:21Z raydeejay: do I need to make an entry in hosts.allow?
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2016-09-07T02:21:54Z BRFennPocock: perhaps — if you have a hosts.deny contradicting it?
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2016-09-07T02:24:12Z raydeejay: no, they are both empty
2016-09-07T02:25:07Z raydeejay: (I'm trying googling for things but who knows what the magic words for this are...)
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2016-09-07T02:26:56Z BRFennPocock: man xinetd.conf check out the verbose logging?
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2016-09-07T02:27:59Z raydeejay: it's set to debug but all I get is Sep  7 03:22:57 pi xinetd[4177]: FAIL: gpio-server address from=192.168.0.10
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2016-09-07T02:36:08Z BRFennPocock: Try setting a handler up for a shell script ( #!/bin/sh #\newline env ) to see if you can get into such a thing?
2016-09-07T02:38:44Z raydeejay: yeah, I tried with /bin/uname, same thing: works with nc 0 1234, fails from the remote machine
2016-09-07T02:39:00Z raydeejay: ahhhh
2016-09-07T02:39:08Z raydeejay: fails on that interface
2016-09-07T02:40:31Z raydeejay: netstat shows it listening on 0.0.0.0 though, I wouldn't have thought of that
2016-09-07T02:42:38Z BRFennPocock: check the bind setting?
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2016-09-07T02:42:54Z BRFennPocock: nm 0=*
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2016-09-07T02:44:05Z raydeejay: I set bind to that interface's ip, and then I got the fail banner from both hosts
2016-09-07T02:44:06Z BRFennPocock: um, checked firewall settings also?
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2016-09-07T02:44:32Z raydeejay: all empty
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2016-09-07T02:46:53Z raydeejay: bah, I'll leave it for tomorrow
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2016-09-07T03:25:42Z jasom: raydeejay: you can use compression on sbcl as well
2016-09-07T03:26:04Z jasom: raydeejay: sorry, some context: you can use compression on sbcl to generate a smaller application image
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2016-09-07T03:38:54Z raydeejay: not supported in this architecture :(
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2016-09-07T03:39:31Z raydeejay: at least in the binary, I guess there's a good reason
2016-09-07T03:40:42Z raydeejay: but it's fine, there's plenty of space
2016-09-07T03:42:26Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2016-09-07T03:58:47Z jasom: raydeejay: windows?
2016-09-07T03:59:02Z jasom: Good morning beach!
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2016-09-07T04:00:26Z Fare: raydeejay, problem with hosts.allow and hosts.deny, perhaps?
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2016-09-07T04:38:15Z lukas1: hello
2016-09-07T04:38:35Z beach: Hello lukas1.
2016-09-07T04:38:54Z lukas1: Quick question
2016-09-07T04:39:06Z lukas1: I have little to no programming experience
2016-09-07T04:39:21Z lukas1: Would common lisp be a good choice as a first language?
2016-09-07T04:39:35Z beach: I personally think so.
2016-09-07T04:39:46Z beach: But you have to choose your book carefully.
2016-09-07T04:39:59Z lukas1: What would you reccommend?
2016-09-07T04:40:02Z beach: minion: Please tell lukas1 about gentle.
2016-09-07T04:40:03Z minion: lukas1: direct your attention towards gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
2016-09-07T04:40:24Z beach: lukas1: Most people here would recommend this book for people with little or no programming experience.
2016-09-07T04:40:43Z lukas1: Ok, thank you
2016-09-07T04:41:14Z beach: lukas1: If you decide to go that route, please consult us here about what implementation to use, and how to install your tools.
2016-09-07T04:41:46Z beach: Many people get it wrong, waste a lot of time, and only then come here for help.  Only to be told to remove what they installed and do it over.
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2016-09-07T04:42:25Z lukas1: I see
2016-09-07T04:42:49Z lukas1: I already installed lispbox, and managed to get a hello wold program
2016-09-07T04:42:59Z beach: That's exactly what I mean.
2016-09-07T04:43:14Z lukas1: So should I uninstall it?
2016-09-07T04:43:18Z beach: As I recall lispbox is old.
2016-09-07T04:43:22Z beach: Maybe I am wrong.
2016-09-07T04:43:35Z beach: Perhaps some other #lisp participant can help here.
2016-09-07T04:43:47Z jasom: I have a recent lispbox
2016-09-07T04:43:56Z sudshekhar: I recently setup my environment using emacs and slime
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2016-09-07T04:44:21Z sudshekhar: wasn't too tough .. but took some time getting used to emacs binding
2016-09-07T04:44:26Z jasom: ah lispstick, not lispbox...
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2016-09-07T04:45:14Z jasom: https://github.com/jasom/lispstick-automate/releases/download/0.1/lispstick-sbcl-1.3.5-emacs-24.4.zip
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2016-09-07T04:45:24Z beach: lukas1: I know nothing about lispbox.  Most people here use SBCL + Emacs + SLIME and install most things using Quicklisp.
2016-09-07T04:45:55Z beach: lukas1: The problem if you decide to do it differently is that there are many fewer people here to help you out in case of problems.
2016-09-07T04:46:12Z jasom: lukas1: I would recommend going with the zip file I posted.  It installs sbcl + emacs + slime + quicklisp
2016-09-07T04:46:23Z lukas1: Ok, thank you
2016-09-07T04:46:45Z gko: +1
2016-09-07T04:46:48Z lukas1: Downloading right now
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2016-09-07T04:49:47Z jasom: lukas1: just double-click on "run.bat" to launch it, and contact me for any issues
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2016-09-07T04:50:17Z jasom: also I need to do an old release; it's 3 months old at this point
2016-09-07T04:51:25Z lukas1: Ok, thank you. It's extracting right now, should be done in a few minutes
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2016-09-07T04:54:32Z jasom: lukas1: oh, and if you've never used emacs, hitting control + g over and over again will get you out of most places, and you can use the menu to access most features until you get used to it.
2016-09-07T04:54:53Z lukas1: Ok
2016-09-07T04:55:03Z lukas1: Is there a good website to get familiar with emacs?
2016-09-07T04:56:12Z jasom: lukas1: "control+h", let go of both keys "t"
2016-09-07T04:56:19Z jasom: inside emacs that launches a tutorial
2016-09-07T04:56:26Z lukas1: Ah, thank you
2016-09-07T04:56:31Z jasom: but you can hold off of that for a bit.
2016-09-07T04:56:37Z lukas1: Ok
2016-09-07T04:56:43Z gko: Eternal September has started... :)
2016-09-07T04:57:08Z u0_a166: ?
2016-09-07T04:57:16Z gko: nevermind
2016-09-07T04:57:41Z u0_a166: ok
2016-09-07T04:58:02Z jasom: right now you'll be using emacs as a nice frontend for lisp, so just typing code into the slime REPL window is what you'll start out with.
2016-09-07T04:58:49Z lukas1: Ok it's finished extracting
2016-09-07T04:58:57Z lukas1: Should I just go from the book now?
2016-09-07T04:59:20Z jasom: the book has 2 chapters before you write code I think; it's a very gentle start :)
2016-09-07T04:59:34Z sudshekhar: jasom, do you know of any web frameworks in lisp?
2016-09-07T05:00:49Z beach: sudshekhar: You might direct such questions to all #lisp participants.
2016-09-07T05:01:54Z lukas1: Alright, thank you for the help everyone, going to log off for now
2016-09-07T05:01:57Z lukas1: Goodnight
2016-09-07T05:02:08Z beach: 'night lukas1.
2016-09-07T05:02:10Z sudshekhar: beach, yeah wanted to ask in general :)
2016-09-07T05:02:16Z jasom: good night; lukas1 don't worry about asking questions here.
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2016-09-07T05:02:58Z beach: sudshekhar: Then do not prefix your question with a particular handle.
2016-09-07T05:03:09Z jasom: sudshekhar: in any event there are a bunch
2016-09-07T05:03:40Z sudshekhar: okay, my bad. will keep that in mind!
2016-09-07T05:05:48Z sudshekhar: but which one might be called beginner-friendly? most used etc .. I am coming from python background, Django was a great help in learning python . wanted to see if something similar exists here
2016-09-07T05:06:53Z sudshekhar: http://8arrow.org/caveman/
2016-09-07T05:06:59Z sudshekhar: anybody else uses this?
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2016-09-07T08:59:45Z myrkraverk: There are probably several web frameworks in lisp -- right now, I can't remember the name of any of them.
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2016-09-07T09:07:25Z dim: what do you want/expect from a “web framework”
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2016-09-07T09:13:58Z raydeejay: I expect a framework to frame my work in one way or another ^^
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2016-09-07T09:37:21Z myrkraverk: Interesting, I have some pictures to frame, now that you mention it.
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2016-09-07T09:46:47Z flip214: http://www.bluegraybox.com/blog/2004/12/02/picture-hanging/
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2016-09-07T09:56:07Z pipping: flip214: there's a lot of truth in there. thanks for the link.
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2016-09-07T10:07:37Z SiCC: awesome article
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2016-09-07T10:23:31Z flip214: you're all welcome. I've got a few bookmarks like that.... always nice to point such things out ;)
2016-09-07T10:25:00Z flip214: http://pike.psu.edu/dongwon/pro/grannies.pdf is another good one
2016-09-07T10:25:08Z flip214: more on request
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2016-09-07T11:30:06Z ecraven: how do I show all contents of an array?
2016-09-07T11:32:41Z sjl: ecraven: not sure what exactly you mean... (print (make-array 3 '(1 2 3)) will print something like #(1 2 3)
2016-09-07T11:33:09Z sjl: err
2016-09-07T11:33:18Z sjl: needs an :initial-contents before the list in there
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2016-09-07T11:34:03Z ecraven: sjl: hm.. this is on OpenGenera, probably that's the problem :-/
2016-09-07T11:34:43Z sjl is pleasantly surprised that his nrepl implementation Just Works™ in ABCL on the first try
2016-09-07T11:34:53Z ecraven: congratulations :)
2016-09-07T11:35:03Z Grue``: ecraven: try (let ((*print-readably* t)) (print array))
2016-09-07T11:35:21Z Grue``: this should print the entire array regardless of its length
2016-09-07T11:36:55Z ecraven: Grue``: thanks! that works
2016-09-07T11:38:38Z ecraven: would anyone here happen to know whether there's a patch that lets one scroll with the mouse wheel on OpenGenera?
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2016-09-07T13:03:41Z leo_song: How to convert a byte stream into a string input stream?
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2016-09-07T13:06:15Z Xach: leo_song: if you convert it to a string first, you can use with-input-from-string
2016-09-07T13:06:33Z Xach: leo_song: you could also try the flexi-streams library, which will put a layer on top of a binary stream for character data
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2016-09-07T13:09:14Z leo_song: Xach: you mean collect bytes to make a string, and use this string as a string input stream?
2016-09-07T13:09:21Z Xach: leo_song: that is one option
2016-09-07T13:10:03Z leo_song: Xach: But i need the input stream available continuously
2016-09-07T13:10:15Z Xach: leo_song: then you could use flexi-streams.
2016-09-07T13:10:26Z leo_song: Xach: let me see
2016-09-07T13:10:51Z Xach: leo_song: out of curiosity, where did the binary stream come from?
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2016-09-07T13:11:11Z leo_song: Xach: from socket
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2016-09-07T13:11:42Z leo_song: I want to write a http server which hosts big file
2016-09-07T13:12:23Z leo_song: but usocket returns only byte stream or character stream
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2016-09-07T13:13:56Z leo_song: When reading clients' request, for the convenience, i want to have a character stream
2016-09-07T13:14:41Z leo_song: and when sending file, i must use a binary stream for transfering the file read from disk
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2016-09-07T13:15:35Z Xach: Ok.
2016-09-07T13:15:58Z Xach: There are multiple HTTP servers and clients, you could investigate how they deal with the issue.
2016-09-07T13:16:11Z leo_song: It's embarrassing that usocket can only pick one type of elements for stream
2016-09-07T13:16:28Z leo_song: Xach: good idea
2016-09-07T13:16:33Z Xach: I know for myself, in my client, I treated the stream as binary only, and had functions that converted my response analysis strings to ascii.
2016-09-07T13:17:05Z Xach: for example, if I was searching for "\n\n" or "\r\n", the code would convert that to the proper binary sequences before checking the binary stream for their presence.
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2016-09-07T13:18:17Z leo_song: Xach: If we can use a character string here, the "parser" would be simpler
2016-09-07T13:18:37Z Xach: Why?
2016-09-07T13:19:50Z leo_song: It would be a simple DFA or NFA
2016-09-07T13:23:13Z leo_song: when reading every character, the program moving from state to state, getting result and easily detect erroneous input
2016-09-07T13:24:42Z leo_song: all we have to do is repeating the (read-char ...)
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2016-09-07T13:29:23Z Xach: That is not substantially different with a binary stream.
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2016-09-07T13:30:25Z leo_song: yep, but usocket only give me binary stream, so i have to convert it to a character stream
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2016-09-07T13:31:04Z Xach: I think that is an optional step driven by your design choices.
2016-09-07T13:31:18Z leo_song: if i use the character stream given by usocket, it will run into trouble when transfering big files
2016-09-07T13:33:05Z leo_song: or, maybe, i should make a function "read-byte-char", gets character by reading from binary stream
2016-09-07T13:34:15Z Grue``: wouldn't FLEXI-STREAMS library help there?
2016-09-07T13:35:14Z leo_song:     (with-open-file (in pathspec :element-type 'octet)
2016-09-07T13:35:14Z leo_song:       (setq in (make-flexi-stream in :external-format :utf-8))
2016-09-07T13:35:15Z leo_song:       (push (read-line in) result)
2016-09-07T13:35:15Z leo_song:       (push (read-byte in) result)
2016-09-07T13:35:31Z leo_song: looks it does helpful
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2016-09-07T15:06:01Z sudshekhar: Hi
2016-09-07T15:06:11Z sudshekhar: can someone please help me debug the following macro : http://paste.lisp.org/display/325443
2016-09-07T15:07:10Z sudshekhar: It's taken from the Practical common lisp book, but slime is refusing to compile with 'comma not inside backquote' error
2016-09-07T15:07:22Z Grue``: well there are a lot of problems just looking at it
2016-09-07T15:07:26Z phoe: sudshekhar: what is what lone DO doing before anything!?
2016-09-07T15:07:30Z Grue``: there's no way it's from the book
2016-09-07T15:07:46Z Grue``: should start with `(do ...) for starters
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2016-09-07T15:08:40Z sudshekhar: Grue``, I am reading it from the safaribooks subscription .. there might have been a formatting issue .. otherwise this is how I see it there too
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2016-09-07T15:09:32Z Grue``: that's interesting, could be some sort of a bug
2016-09-07T15:10:09Z phoe: sudshekhar: give me a screenshot
2016-09-07T15:10:19Z Grue``: though if only the paren after ` was missing, the other parens would be unbalanced
2016-09-07T15:10:28Z phoe: because the beginning *is* supposed to be `(do and not `do
2016-09-07T15:10:56Z Grue``: so it must affect 2 balanced parens somehow
2016-09-07T15:11:05Z sudshekhar: yeah the ending one isn't there either
2016-09-07T15:11:19Z sudshekhar: phoe, sending, 2 minutes, what's the right way to share it though?
2016-09-07T15:11:40Z phoe: sudshekhar: imgur.com
2016-09-07T15:12:16Z sudshekhar: while trying out things to make it work, i put the first one in front of do, then assumed the other one will go at the very end, it compiled, but wasn't correct.
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2016-09-07T15:12:56Z phoe: sudshekhar: a tip for writing a macro (well, one of the tips) to first write a working piece of code that is *not* a macro.
2016-09-07T15:13:21Z phoe: Then "generify" that piece of code and turn it into a macro.
2016-09-07T15:13:27Z sudshekhar: http://imgur.com/a/G51gO
2016-09-07T15:13:28Z phoe: It doesn't work in all cases, but here, it'd work.
2016-09-07T15:13:52Z Grue``: how diabolical
2016-09-07T15:14:30Z phoe: sudshekhar: that's a bug.
2016-09-07T15:14:32Z phoe: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/macros-defining-your-own.html
2016-09-07T15:14:36Z sudshekhar: phoe, yeah. this is my first attempt at lisp macros, so still trying to wrap my head around the syntax and all that
2016-09-07T15:14:46Z phoe: Someone stole a precious paren.
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2016-09-07T15:15:20Z sudshekhar: hahha yeah. I will follow the online book only then
2016-09-07T15:15:36Z sudshekhar: hopefully will help clear stuff up better
2016-09-07T15:15:49Z phoe: I mean - it's certainly tested by tens of people who use it.
2016-09-07T15:16:01Z phoe: This version of yours, well, *has* issues.
2016-09-07T15:16:04Z phoe: Even if just that one.
2016-09-07T15:16:07Z Grue``: sudshekhar: you also mistyped ((> ,var ,end)) part, that's on you
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2016-09-07T15:18:02Z sudshekhar: ohh yeah. That i think I missed while copy pasting from emacs .. had re-read the code between my editor and the safari edition several times before posting
2016-09-07T15:18:04Z Grue``: i head the following suggestion, when learning to write macros don't use backquote syntax and just use normal list operations to produce the code
2016-09-07T15:18:28Z Grue``: *heard
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2016-09-07T15:19:09Z Grue``: then when you understand how it works, switch to backquotes to save time ;)
2016-09-07T15:19:23Z sudshekhar: hahah, yeah I guess that should be how I should approach this
2016-09-07T15:19:34Z sudshekhar: backquote and , is elegant but also seems like magic
2016-09-07T15:20:10Z Xach: it's a template system with terse syntax
2016-09-07T15:21:02Z sudshekhar: while attempting the macro, i somehow convinced myself that since lisp will replace the macro with my definition word for word
2016-09-07T15:21:22Z sudshekhar:  the (do-primes (p 0 19) ()) will be replaced by the do and the original parenthesis (of calling function) would be used instead
2016-09-07T15:21:39Z sudshekhar: stupid when you type it out loud
2016-09-07T15:21:42Z sudshekhar: :P
2016-09-07T15:21:56Z Grue``: well, C macros kind of work like that
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2016-09-07T15:23:16Z sudshekhar: yeah, while reading this book, i get what happens in lisp, then if I think back to my java/python/c experience there are times when I get confused
2016-09-07T15:23:36Z sudshekhar: but then again that's why I am hoping lisp will be a great learning experience
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2016-09-07T15:43:15Z BusFactor1: Hi. I'm playing around with cl-opengl and need access to functions that are defined using the defglextfun like gl:gen-programs-arb but can't seem to access them.  Any ideas on how to get to the defglextfun's that are available in the source?
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2016-09-07T15:46:35Z BusFactor1: in funcs-gl.lisp:(defglextfun ("glGenProgramsARB" gen-programs-arb) :void
2016-09-07T15:46:42Z Bike: cl-opengl-bindings:gen-programs-arb?
2016-09-07T15:46:59Z Bike: or %gl:gen-programs-arb. i think.
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2016-09-07T15:50:01Z BusFactor1: second one looks correct, thanks!
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2016-09-07T16:00:29Z BusFactor1: I'm thinking this is how you would make the call, but I'm getting a memory fault error (cffi::with-foreign-pointer (programs 8) (%gl:gen-programs-arb 1 programs))
2016-09-07T16:01:15Z BusFactor1: any ideas?  the cl-opengl interface doesn't seem very lispy
2016-09-07T16:03:36Z oGMo: %gl stuff is the direct C api call, of course it's not very lisp ;)
2016-09-07T16:03:39Z oGMo: +y
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2016-09-07T16:04:42Z oGMo: also a program is probably a GLint and not a char
2016-09-07T16:05:35Z oGMo: or GLuint, like the non-ARB glCreateProgram presumably
2016-09-07T16:06:38Z BusFactor1: how does one go about allocating a GLuint from lisp?
2016-09-07T16:06:51Z BusFactor1: i found gl::get-pointer but that also gives a memory fault
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2016-09-07T16:09:20Z oGMo: cffi:with-foreign-objects is one way
2016-09-07T16:09:40Z oGMo: static-vectors is another way though you need to make sure your types and sizes match
2016-09-07T16:10:08Z Bike: where is this function defined... i'm seeing a bunch of stuff from 2005
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2016-09-07T16:10:56Z Bike: hm, and a DelphiGL wiki, in german
2016-09-07T16:11:02Z jasom: speaking of which, if anyone can teach me how to read the X protocol docs, I could add the missing calls I need to clx; the last time I needed to my algorithm was: 1) Read x protocol docs 2) read xlib source 3) reread x protocol docs 4) read xcb source 5) give up, write what I want in C and use wireshark to capture the network traffic.
2016-09-07T16:11:52Z Bike: last time i did gl it was glCreateProgram, i think
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2016-09-07T16:14:01Z oGMo: it's glCreateProgram for most GL, but maybe not like early ES or ancient stuff
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2016-09-07T16:21:01Z phoe: clhs make-instance
2016-09-07T16:21:01Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_ins.htm
2016-09-07T16:21:11Z phoe: How are the &REST INITARGS used in here?
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2016-09-07T16:23:42Z Bike: clhs 7.1.7
2016-09-07T16:23:42Z specbot: Definitions of Make-Instance and Initialize-Instance: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_ag.htm
2016-09-07T16:23:44Z Bike: like that
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2016-09-07T16:27:41Z BusFactor1: does (cffi::with-foreign-object (programs '%gl:uint 1) (%gl:gen-programs-arb 1 programs)) look correct?
2016-09-07T16:27:57Z BusFactor1: it's still giving a memory error unfortuantely
2016-09-07T16:28:00Z Bike: it should just be cffi:with-foreign-object
2016-09-07T16:28:17Z Bike: i mean, that won't fix the problem
2016-09-07T16:28:23Z BusFactor1: yes, my mistake
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2016-09-07T16:29:11Z BusFactor1: this is a bit frustrating..i just want to assemble my arb assembly programs. i wish there was an example
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2016-09-07T16:31:19Z BusFactor1: and then i find out you can't even use ARB assembly in webgl :-/  oh well
2016-09-07T16:31:29Z BusFactor1: back to the drawing board
2016-09-07T16:33:14Z Bike: well, that makes it a bit easier on you, you can use gl:create-program and you have an example https://github.com/3b/cl-opengl/blob/27b8133223446ef7f4d172ce24635c1df428c46a/examples/misc/shader-vao.lisp
2016-09-07T16:35:00Z oGMo: BusFactor1: do you have a valid GL context in the thread you're calling it from?
2016-09-07T16:35:27Z oGMo: i don't think WebGL works from the CL end heh
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2016-09-07T16:52:39Z BusFactor1: no, i didn't expect it to, i just wanted an arb assembler
2016-09-07T16:52:57Z BusFactor1: i'm writing a lispy arb assembler that I wanted to be able to check the output of
2016-09-07T16:53:12Z BusFactor1: thinking i could use the output with webgl but i was mistaken
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2016-09-07T16:55:05Z sjl: nice, my prolog vm runs almost completely unmodified in abcl too
2016-09-07T16:55:25Z sjl: except that apparently abcl fixnum == java int == 32 bits instead of 64
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2016-09-07T16:57:02Z oGMo: BusFactor1: you can't do GL things without some valid GL implementation there
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2016-09-07T16:57:53Z BusFactor1: oGMo: i'm not quite sure what you mean
2016-09-07T16:58:42Z oGMo: BusFactor1: just because you can load cl-opengl and presumably even dynlink libGL.so or whatnot doesn't mean you can just use GL functions
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2016-09-07T16:59:20Z BusFactor1: oh. i figured you could without having to initailize.
2016-09-07T16:59:23Z axion: You need to create a valid GL context first, before any of the state changing functions work.
2016-09-07T16:59:34Z oGMo: which is pretty much any of the functions
2016-09-07T16:59:51Z BusFactor1: oh yeah, i totally forgot about that
2016-09-07T17:00:10Z oGMo: BusFactor1: that said does webgl not have anything analogous to what you want? presumably you could ship it _to_ a browser to process
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2016-09-07T17:00:35Z BusFactor1: no, webgl only handles GLSL and not ARB assembly
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2016-09-07T17:01:06Z BusFactor1: so i might end up writing something that compiles to GLSL instead, but i was hoping just for straight assembly
2016-09-07T17:02:12Z |3b|: you probably want glsl for any real use, not sure assembly has been updated much recently (aside from maybe on nvidia hardware), and isn't required to be supported
2016-09-07T17:02:41Z |3b|: or you could try spir-v and hope GL gets extensions (or core support) to use it soon
2016-09-07T17:02:43Z BusFactor1: i'm noticing quite the mess the shadercoding ecosystem is
2016-09-07T17:03:01Z BusFactor1: yeah, i've been looking into spir-v as well
2016-09-07T17:03:02Z |3b|: also, there are already a few projects that compile something lisp-like to glsl
2016-09-07T17:03:07Z BusFactor1: but it's not supported in the browser
2016-09-07T17:03:22Z BusFactor1: i've seen them, also one in haskell but i can't seem to get them running
2016-09-07T17:03:37Z BusFactor1: or at least figure out how to use them
2016-09-07T17:03:54Z BusFactor1: so i thought i'd try writing my own :)
2016-09-07T17:04:07Z |3b|: yeah, if you want browser, essl (which is more or less glsl) is the only option
2016-09-07T17:04:32Z BusFactor1: i really should keep it in the browser
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2016-09-07T20:19:56Z pipping: but if uiop is love, what does that make :no-uiop?
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2016-09-07T20:20:57Z pipping: quoting from the test: (format t "~:[Look ma, no UIOP~;Oops, UIOP~]!~%" (find-package :uiop))
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2016-09-07T21:17:37Z shrdlu68: (pathname "[foo") is giving me an error on SBCL. "[Condition of type SB-KERNEL:NAMESTRING-PARSE-ERROR]"
2016-09-07T21:18:47Z shrdlu68: whereas (pathname "foo]") isn't
2016-09-07T21:19:01Z shrdlu68: Is this a bug?
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2016-09-07T21:20:08Z shrdlu68: It says "parse error in namestring: #\[ with no corresponding #\]"
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2016-09-07T21:21:35Z brfennpocock: it thinks you're giving a (broken) wildcard pattern? SB-IMPL::MAYBE-MAKE-PATTERN … ? Work-around = (make-pathname :name "[foo")
2016-09-07T21:24:32Z mood: You can also escape the [ by putting a backslash before it, so (pathname "\\[foo")
2016-09-07T21:24:41Z shrdlu68: brfennpocock: That'll work, the other lisp I have on this machine is ecl, and it has no such problem.
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2016-09-07T21:28:03Z brfennpocock: into that territory of “implementation/OS dependent local behaviour” I suppose
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2016-09-07T21:29:32Z shrdlu68: mood: Doesn't escape, I get the exact string, as if I'm trying to access '\\[foo' rather than '[foo'
2016-09-07T21:30:40Z mood: shrdlu68: That's... weird. Are you sure? It'll print as #p"\\[foo", but (pathname-name (pathname "\\[foo")) should be "[foo"
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2016-09-07T21:31:09Z mood: But yeah, how namestrings are parsed is pretty much entirely implementation dependent
2016-09-07T21:32:20Z shrdlu68: mood: Yeah, that prints '[foo', I'd tried (namestring #P"\\[foo")
2016-09-07T21:35:12Z _death: you likely want native-namestring/parse-native-namestring (apropos for it)
2016-09-07T21:35:15Z mood: shrdlu68: Yeah, NAMESTRING will return it in a format that can be read back by PARSE-NAMESTRING, which is the thing that interprets [abc] specially
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2016-09-07T21:47:56Z shrdlu68: mood: This all occoured while trying (merge-pathnames "[foo" "/bar/baz/"), by the way.
2016-09-07T21:48:17Z shrdlu68: s/occoured/occured
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2016-09-07T21:55:59Z phoe: Purely functional programming is pretty rad.
2016-09-07T21:56:43Z phoe: Especially in a code-is-data environment.
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2016-09-07T22:14:29Z phoe: Is there a built-in (CL or MOP) way to shallow-copy an instance? Meaning that the instance is newly allocated but all slot-values are shared?
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2016-09-07T22:15:07Z Xach: phoe: not built-in
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2016-09-07T22:15:44Z phoe: Xach: library?
2016-09-07T22:16:28Z phoe: Or, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11067899/is-there-a-generic-method-for-cloning-clos-objects ?
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2016-09-07T22:21:23Z Xach: phoe: i don't know of one. what prompts the desire?
2016-09-07T22:22:03Z phoe: I'm working with immutable CLOS objects and I'm looking for a way to create a "modified" copy.
2016-09-07T22:22:22Z phoe: 1) create a copy, 2) modify a slot in it, 3) return the modified copy.
2016-09-07T22:22:42Z phoe: Since I don't want to modify the original one, I copy it, put a new value in the slot, and return the copy.
2016-09-07T22:22:53Z phoe: But for that, I need a shallow copier.
2016-09-07T22:22:54Z oGMo: clos objects and their slots aren't necessarily trivially copiable like that, so you need something specific to the model you're working with
2016-09-07T22:23:41Z phoe: My objects are basically tuples though, not unlike Haskell data types. So I hope it'll work.
2016-09-07T22:23:46Z raydeejay: phoe: would https://github.com/zkat/sheeple cover your needs?
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2016-09-07T22:24:17Z oGMo: phoe: if you're the one making all these objects, make a GF to do what you need?
2016-09-07T22:24:57Z oGMo: or if you're defining their classes etc that is
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2016-09-07T22:25:32Z phoe: oGMo: I am defining their classes. But, within the GF, I'll still need to copy everything that I don't modify.
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2016-09-07T22:26:02Z phoe: raydeejay: this sounds pretty huge! I'm looking for a much smaller tool.
2016-09-07T22:26:17Z raydeejay: it's not really that big
2016-09-07T22:26:32Z oGMo: phoe: make your operations such that they construct a new object with the modified properties as well as the unmodified old ones?
2016-09-07T22:29:17Z phoe: oGMo: I read it three times and still don't get it. A single operation that acts both as a constructor and a copying constructor?
2016-09-07T22:31:33Z phoe: When I have a FOO class with BAR and BAZ slots, I want to (defvar *a* (make-instance 'foo :bar 123 :baz 321)) (defvar *b* (copy *a* :bar 234)) and have (= (baz-of *b*) 321).
2016-09-07T22:31:54Z phoe: While having (= (bar-of *b*) 234).
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2016-09-07T22:33:40Z Xach is an intense non-fan of the <anything>-of style
2016-09-07T22:33:46Z Xach: (that is a tangent)
2016-09-07T22:35:20Z phoe: Xach: it's always fun until I have a slot called STREAM in my class
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2016-09-07T22:36:12Z phoe: and I always end up nailing myself straight on the :ACCESSOR STREAM trap.
2016-09-07T22:36:26Z oGMo: phoe: it's unclear why you're even doing this heh
2016-09-07T22:36:51Z phoe: oGMo: is the example with *a* and *b* not clear enough for you?
2016-09-07T22:37:08Z oGMo: you could certainly make what you want work, but .. seems like trying to shoehorn a solution into a problem
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2016-09-07T22:37:17Z oGMo: phoe: i said why, not what
2016-09-07T22:37:28Z phoe: oh, why
2016-09-07T22:37:51Z phoe: I'm going in a purely functional direction and try to use CLOS objects as data
2016-09-07T22:38:10Z oGMo: sounds like a terrible idea, but why don't you check out one of the other thousand attempts first? ;)
2016-09-07T22:38:23Z phoe: xD
2016-09-07T22:38:44Z phoe: oGMo: fine. I'm going in a purely functional direction, what structures should I use to manage my data?
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2016-09-07T22:39:26Z oGMo: phoe: i think you might ask what _language_ you should be using, but you might at least check out some of the existing functional stuff people have tried
2016-09-07T22:39:53Z phoe: welp, what language should I be using?
2016-09-07T22:40:02Z oGMo: cliki had a few under data structures i think
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2016-09-07T22:43:53Z pillton: phoe: You can use CLOS and you can use common lisp. If you have issues with the fact that the order of evaluation is defined, then you can alter that too.
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2016-09-07T22:44:40Z phoe: pillton: I don't have problems with the evaluation order, but I know that one.
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2016-09-07T22:45:31Z shrdlu68: Still grapling with pathnames on SBCL.
2016-09-07T22:45:58Z pillton: Which aspect?
2016-09-07T22:46:32Z shrdlu68: This time I'm getting "too many dots in the name" from (namestring (make-pathname :directory "/foo/bar/" :name "[foo.bar.baz.1"))
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2016-09-07T22:50:02Z shrdlu68: Escaping does not seem to help this time.
2016-09-07T22:50:03Z shrdlu68: It's not that there are too many dots, rather that there are dots, because foo.bar still invokes the condition.
2016-09-07T22:51:51Z pillton: I think you are in implementation defined territory.
2016-09-07T22:52:36Z pillton: If Fare was here, he would tell you his thoughts on CL's pathname specification.
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2016-09-07T23:05:48Z shrdlu68: pillton: Yeah, I could use his thoughts. I don't know what to make of it.
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2016-09-07T23:07:56Z pillton: The #\[ character is used in pathname matching so you may have issues with that too.
2016-09-07T23:10:02Z shrdlu68: pillton: Indeed, it invokes conditions on SBCL about not being matched.
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2016-09-07T23:11:14Z shrdlu68: Which makes all this needlessly complicated in a situation where the pathnames are user-specified and could contain all kinds of characters.
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2016-09-07T23:13:38Z shrdlu68: Which reminds me, I once placed a file in a windoze filesystem with enclosed in asterisks, and the system could not handle it at all on boot. Couldn't delete it, rename it, open it. I found that pretty hilarious.
2016-09-07T23:14:04Z phoe: shrdlu68: that's a bad idea indeed
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2016-09-07T23:14:52Z raydeejay: I like to think of NTFS as more of a file mess
2016-09-07T23:15:25Z shrdlu68: I had to boot a iive disk :D
2016-09-07T23:15:30Z phoe: shrdlu68: XD
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2016-09-07T23:18:21Z phoe: I can imagine all sorts of situations upon which the Windows kernel would screw up under such a condition.
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