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2016-09-05T04:07:19Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2016-09-05T04:21:28Z 
2016-09-05T04:21:28Z names: ccl-logbot shka_ fkac quazimodo ukari LiamH mishoo d4ryus araujo__ robotoad bungoman zacts adolf_stalin arescorpio FreeBirdLjj cyberlard defaultxr mastokley fUD asc232 brandonz sukaeto failproofshark jtmcf sausages rszeno shdeng jokleinn oleo_ space_otter wooden_ ineiros tmtwd phadthai KaliLinuxGR guest1123 shymega abeaumont_ nightfly jrm ASau themightyabby PuercoPop grizzlor edgar-rft easye karswell ivan4th setheus troydm scymtym derrida Bike
2016-09-05T04:21:28Z names: marsjaninzmarsa deank whiteline buckybit drdo zbigniew sshirokov mathrick_ norfumpit kushal Oddity grublet ovenpasta kolko knobo tessier_ joshe beach yeticry boomer Anselmo slyrus xristos jbalint raydeejay arrdem TDT holly2 sake lemoinem wolf_mozart JuanDaugherty dan64 myrkraverk aries_liuxueyang gigetoo reepca` schjetne_ loke` fouric Khisanth bocaneri Patzy benny o`connor Quadrescence Oladon jself ghostlight luis dlowe emma AntiSpamMeta jackc-_ djh
2016-09-05T04:21:28Z names: dmiles seg cebreidian Tristam fiddlerwoaroof jdz jfrancis krasnal GyorsCsiga Atarian tilpner thomas fluxit SiCC itscaleb vap1 ck_ eMBee larsen NeverDie Justinus tristero forgot mood oGMo oystewh gypsydave5 parus snits_ thijso cmbntr_ tokik mnoonan djinni`_ DGASAU Grue`` White_Flame moei arpunk impulse kjak CEnnis91 yrdz CrazyEddy ym Sigyn _death steelbird housel cibs vlnx p_l xantoz emlow DeadTrickster libreman ggherdov octo_ hjudt eschatologist
2016-09-05T04:21:28Z names: justinabrahms froggey isoraqathedh bizarrefish M-moredhel1 j0ni vibs29 MorTal1ty wyan aaronjensen trig-ger gendl sz0 lancetw kilimanjaro jlarocco pootler_ alexherbo2 NaNDude gbyers velvetcore banjiewen mmos eschulte ksool Kruppe Velveeta_Chef nydel msb ramus mason roscoe_tw salva Posterdati Harag angular_mike mbrock l1x copec stux|RC-only quasisane schoppenhauer jostein M-Illandan john-mcaleely Orion3k davsebamse segmond Kaisyu StephanLahl sebboh akkad
2016-09-05T04:21:28Z names: nopf Firedancer trinitr0n mtd minion thortron fitzsim larme nzambe splittist Grue` vert2 Tordek HDurer e foom unbalancedparen dilated_dinosaur tax tfb rotty srcerer Zhivago sword whartung Zotan NhanH XachX_ makufiru mjl billstclair alms_clozure gz__ danlentz aindilis2 mgodshall Blkt fe[nl]ix jtz d4gg4d shikhin asedeno omilu TMA tobel SAL9000 smithzv rvirding cantstanya guaqua les zwwwdr sytse zkat__ unrahul WojciechK toogley Ober flip214 grindhold_ erg
2016-09-05T04:21:28Z names: anachrom1 programisto iskander SeanP euphoria- ``Erik woona creat pillton kjeldahl cross spacebat2 |3b| ski leo_song payphone vsync danieli watersoul ozzloy fluter eli pipping nullman vhost- rick-monster Colleen tanuzzo wizzo Nikotiini Cthulhux Petit_Dejeuner TeMPOraL taij33n swflint emeritus micro` cods funnel Karunamon joga heddwch el-mikl cyraxjoe pavelpenev aerique dim abbe justinmcp_ voidlily impaktor clop constantinexvi pkkm mikaelj pok cpt_nemo
2016-09-05T04:21:28Z names: loke killmaster jonh sigjuice giraffe cmatei eagleflo drot finnrobi cell Lord_Nightmare tiago disingenuous nocd clog ec\ tkd drmeister neuri8- jsnell_ aeth sid_cypher BananaMagician Mandus adlai hetman` Fade johs specbot dxtr ircbrowse lpaste ristur gko jackdaniel Neet joast rann mearnsh BirthdayHandler __main__ heurist Xach SlashLife hydraz brucem cmpitg ecraven nicdev zymurgy ft qlkzy ejt axion jasom lieven lxpz kbtr someone aap renard_ tomaw
2016-09-05T04:21:28Z names: samebchase zerac gabot newcup askatasuna yeltzooo9 tokenrov1 antoszka H4ns otwieracz GGMethos jurov gensym AeroNotix j_king EDT ferada mordocai keix pchrist Subfusc low-profile musegarden4 misv trn dwchandler DrCode z0d
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2016-09-05T05:13:59Z zacts: hi beach
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2016-09-05T05:14:04Z zacts: you are here too! cool
2016-09-05T05:14:08Z zacts: anyway bbl
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2016-09-05T06:11:31Z ecraven: Is ^F0 and ^F1 (seemingly comment delimiters) in some OpenGenera files anything that was used widely?
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2016-09-05T10:35:08Z splittist: ecraven: I think they are font markings. Not sure whether the system predates Symbolics.
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2016-09-05T10:45:29Z splittist: ecraven: here's some more info: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/uWJ1_Aq_-H0
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2016-09-05T10:59:12Z ecraven: splittist: thanks!
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2016-09-05T11:01:29Z ecraven: wow, just noticed the timestamps on those messages
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2016-09-05T11:14:24Z ecraven: was it ever a problem on the lisp machines that you constantly modified the system? it seems a bit fragile :-/ everything you evaluate in zmacs becomes part of your OS instantly
2016-09-05T11:14:37Z tfb: yes, it was
2016-09-05T11:14:47Z tfb: but you learned to be careful
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2016-09-05T11:16:40Z ecraven: tfb: would you say it's worth the price?
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2016-09-05T11:18:26Z ecraven: wow, this is insane... (accept 'standard-class) would work on class names in source code? I can't even imagine how this would be implemented :-/
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2016-09-05T11:18:55Z tfb: ecraven: as a development environment, yes, especially at the time, as a way of life, probably not
2016-09-05T11:19:40Z tfb: ecraven: the Symbolics machines were pretty robust environment.  The Xerox machines were, well, implemented by elves
2016-09-05T11:20:25Z ecraven: hehe, I've never seen an actual lisp machine, I just know OpenGenera a bit, and I've had a partial image of interlisp somewhere... I need to find that again, actually
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2016-09-05T11:23:19Z ecraven: right, medley, that was it
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2016-09-05T11:28:59Z tfb: Disturbingly I can still remember the release names: Carol, Fugue, Harmony, Intermezzo, Koto, Lyric, Medley.  If you say these words in the right place and at the right time then you will call up the Good People, and God help you then.
2016-09-05T11:30:34Z ecraven: unfortunately lde(x) wants GLIBC_2.0, which I don't have any more :-/
2016-09-05T11:30:45Z ecraven: the snap4 source-code is still not public, is it?
2016-09-05T11:30:55Z ecraven: (yes, I know that's a different lisp machine :)
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2016-09-05T11:31:37Z lieven: there's a medley image with emulator available from ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/lfg/
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2016-09-05T11:33:47Z ecraven: lieven: thanks, that's what I have here, but I need a system to run it on :-/
2016-09-05T11:34:00Z ecraven: the emulator wants old glibc
2016-09-05T11:34:22Z lieven: archive.debian.org :)
2016-09-05T11:35:42Z ecraven: lieven: I only find .jigdo files there
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2016-09-05T11:37:47Z ecraven: ah, debian only started producing isos with 3.0_r6
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2016-09-05T14:01:44Z ecraven: wow, just trying to install debian woody, I'm glad I forgot all about choosing tons of device drivers on system installation
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2016-09-05T15:22:24Z madbub: hey there, does anyone know how can I solve the problem of loading cffi-grovel? I'm trying to use cl-charms, but it appears that when cffi-grovel is being compiled, there's an error of an illegal function call
2016-09-05T15:22:47Z madbub: here's the error I get http://lpaste.net/184784
2016-09-05T15:23:01Z madbub: if (ql:quickload "cffi-grovel"), I get the same error
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2016-09-05T16:08:33Z francogrex: hi, I am having an error in cffi as such: Illegal :UTF-8 character starting at position 1794
2016-09-05T16:08:56Z francogrex: I identified it to this: (CFFI:FOREIGN-STRING-TO-LISP #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X0662EFE8) :OFFSET 0 :COUNT 2038 :MAX-CHARS 536870908 :ENCODING :UTF-8)
2016-09-05T16:09:19Z francogrex: (cffi:mem-aref CFFI::POINTER :unsigned-char 1794) => 146
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2016-09-05T16:09:52Z pipping: madbub: which lisp and version of asdf are you on?
2016-09-05T16:09:53Z francogrex: 146 is not an ascii but it is utf-8!
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2016-09-05T16:10:04Z francogrex: why the error?
2016-09-05T16:10:28Z pipping: madbub: https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/How-do-I-detect-the-ASDF-version_003f.html for question #2
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2016-09-05T16:11:36Z JuanDaugherty: as shown the complaint is that it IS utf-8
2016-09-05T16:11:52Z pipping: madbub: the error suggests that (os-cond ((func) ...)) is not read correctly, i.e. that os-cond is undefined
2016-09-05T16:12:18Z francogrex: PRIVATE USE TWO (U+0092) seems a legitimate utf-8 char
2016-09-05T16:12:33Z JuanDaugherty: ambiguous whether "illegal" is in context of lisp or utf-8, but by report the former
2016-09-05T16:12:57Z francogrex: JuanDaugherty: ok though it doesn't make sense then the function:
2016-09-05T16:13:11Z francogrex: (CFFI:FOREIGN-STRING-TO-LISP #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X0662EFE8) :OFFSET 0 :COUNT 2038 :MAX-CHARS 536870908 :ENCODING :UTF-8)
2016-09-05T16:13:47Z JuanDaugherty: keyword/value clash?
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2016-09-05T16:14:20Z JuanDaugherty: looks like should be :ENCODING UTF-8
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2016-09-05T16:14:51Z francogrex: ?
2016-09-05T16:14:52Z JuanDaugherty: unless it's a report
2016-09-05T16:15:42Z JuanDaugherty: anyway possible sbcl unicode bug too
2016-09-05T16:15:43Z Bike: no, the encoding is supposed to be a keyword
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2016-09-05T16:15:55Z francogrex: the syntax is correct
2016-09-05T16:15:56Z pipping: madbub: the os-cond macro was only introduced in https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/commit/38eb8a7cebe9299f1969a3e84b1b4d7369151384 (2015/03/28) which puts it between 3.1.4 and 3.1.5, thus rather recently
2016-09-05T16:16:06Z francogrex: the error is weird it is not supposed to be
2016-09-05T16:16:57Z francogrex: it's a cffi bug
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2016-09-05T16:17:33Z Bike: oh, this is the part of cffi with the ,', bleh
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2016-09-05T16:20:19Z francogrex: ?
2016-09-05T16:20:49Z francogrex: I will try to reproduce it
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2016-09-05T16:22:24Z JuanDaugherty expects cffi to be rock solid
2016-09-05T16:23:15Z pipping: madbub: in fact, what you're seeing has already been addressed upstream: https://github.com/cffi/cffi/commit/13006979a1e76d39c2e5c1be1c88fa731b626e5b
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2016-09-05T16:26:43Z Bike: francogrex: it's easy to do in babel. (babel:octets-to-string (make-array 4 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) :initial-contents '(38 92 146 232)) :encoding :utf-8) -> Illegal :UTF-8 character starting at position 3.
2016-09-05T16:28:01Z francogrex: Bike:  why is it "illegal"?
2016-09-05T16:28:12Z Bike: i do not know enough unicode to say
2016-09-05T16:28:28Z Bike: i know private use characters are weird, but other than that really not sure
2016-09-05T16:29:38Z Bike: these ones particularly are sitting right in the middle of the control character block
2016-09-05T16:29:55Z Bike: it doesn't like those either, it seems
2016-09-05T16:30:12Z madbub: pipping: thanks! I'm actually using sbcl 1.2.14. I'll check which version of ASDF I have
2016-09-05T16:30:53Z Bike: oh, that might have been sorta wrong, using 32s instead of random numbers gets a better error
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2016-09-05T16:32:00Z francogrex: ok. see here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/325230
2016-09-05T16:32:12Z francogrex: there doesn't seem to be a problem there
2016-09-05T16:32:32Z madbub: pipping: just checked, I'm running asdf 3.1.3
2016-09-05T16:33:38Z Bike: francogrex: if you encode that string into unicode it's 90 97 194 145 112 97, so there's two bytes for the weird character
2016-09-05T16:34:20Z Bike: decodes fine
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2016-09-05T16:34:23Z francogrex: where idid the 194 come from?
2016-09-05T16:34:32Z Bike: the encoder put it there
2016-09-05T16:35:41Z francogrex: what? (loop for i across *my-string* collect (char-code i)) no 194
2016-09-05T16:35:51Z Bike: well, yes, but encoding a string is more complicated than that
2016-09-05T16:35:52Z francogrex: you mean the cfii
2016-09-05T16:35:55Z Bike: i mean babel
2016-09-05T16:35:57Z pipping: madbub: heh. funnily enough, anything as recent as sbcl-1.2.15 should make this issue go away (that's when sbcl updated asdf to 3.1.5 which is sufficient afaict)
2016-09-05T16:36:09Z francogrex: hmm complicated
2016-09-05T16:36:10Z Bike: it is possible that unicode is defined such that the control characters are two-byte
2016-09-05T16:36:41Z Bike: the way the code is written, bytes from 81 to bf signal that error
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2016-09-05T16:37:00Z Bike: if t hey start a character
2016-09-05T16:37:28Z Bike: where is your string from? do you know that it is valid utf-8?
2016-09-05T16:37:49Z francogrex: the one I made up in lisppaste we know what it is
2016-09-05T16:38:04Z francogrex: but the one giving the erropr is from an oracle database
2016-09-05T16:38:22Z francogrex: so no idea if it is "valid"
2016-09-05T16:38:27Z Bike: the one in  your paste encodes the string with babel and then decodes it, an error would be pretty worrying, heh
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2016-09-05T16:39:12Z francogrex: ok i see
2016-09-05T16:39:22Z Bike: oh, here we go, wikipedia says "One-byte codes are used only for the ASCII values 0 through 127"
2016-09-05T16:39:37Z francogrex: ok
2016-09-05T16:39:37Z Bike: "Code points larger than 127 are represented by multi-byte sequences"
2016-09-05T16:39:46Z Bike: learnin' on a wish
2016-09-05T16:40:04Z francogrex: so code-char 146 is not as it appears
2016-09-05T16:40:17Z Bike: maybe look at the oracle db more closely, maybe it's latin 1 or something
2016-09-05T16:40:43Z Bike: well, private use two still has a code of 146, you just don't make utf-8 strings with map code-char
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2016-09-05T16:41:00Z francogrex: ok I'll investigate that more in oracle then. thanks for the tips
2016-09-05T16:41:16Z Bike: isn't unicode exciting
2016-09-05T16:41:43Z francogrex: it's "interesting" to learn but can't call it exciting
2016-09-05T16:42:14Z francogrex: alright. later guys. thanks Bike
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2016-09-05T16:42:30Z Bike: see you
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2016-09-05T17:05:08Z madbub: pipping: hah, damn coincidence. I just upgraded to sbcl 1.3 and its cool now. Thanks for helping me!
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2016-09-05T17:17:25Z ecraven: http://www.loomcom.com/genera/genera-install.html says to edit the definition of username-and-password-valid-p, I've entered the new definition into a zmacs buffer, but when compiling it zmacs says there is no mixin unix-authentication-mixin
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2016-09-05T19:49:30Z zacts: is there a good ANSI Common Lisp -> JavaScript compiler?
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2016-09-05T19:50:51Z jackdaniel: zacts: paredit aims to such cross-cc
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2016-09-05T19:51:05Z ecraven: parenscript?
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2016-09-05T19:51:08Z jackdaniel: on the other hand, if you look for CL implementation *in* js head for JSCL
2016-09-05T19:51:15Z jackdaniel: parenscript, right
2016-09-05T19:51:18Z jackdaniel: :)
2016-09-05T19:51:30Z ecraven: paredit is awesome, but I don't think it compiles to JS (yet)
2016-09-05T19:51:34Z raydeejay: yet
2016-09-05T19:51:41Z jackdaniel: heheh
2016-09-05T19:51:52Z ecraven: is there a port of paredit for zmacs?
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2016-09-05T20:03:36Z zacts: oh cool
2016-09-05T20:03:40Z zacts: thanks
2016-09-05T20:03:45Z zacts: JSCL sounds neat
2016-09-05T20:03:59Z zacts: perhaps I could also try clojurescript for clojure -> JS
2016-09-05T20:04:12Z zacts: I mean is Common Lisp somewhat similar to Clojure?
2016-09-05T20:04:21Z zacts: but ANSI common lisp would rock
2016-09-05T20:04:35Z zacts: I like having a standardized lispy lingo
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2016-09-05T20:05:21Z zacts: jackdaniel: my goal is to write Atom.io plugins with Common Lisp
2016-09-05T20:05:28Z zacts: just to see how possible it would be
2016-09-05T20:05:31Z jackdaniel: zacts: it is no more similar than let's say .Net to Java
2016-09-05T20:05:34Z zacts: (yes I'm a bit insane)
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2016-09-05T20:05:38Z zacts: jackdaniel: ah ok
2016-09-05T20:05:57Z jackdaniel: having atom.io plugins with CL soudns like a good idea – atom.io is an editor right?
2016-09-05T20:06:06Z zacts: indeed
2016-09-05T20:06:08Z zacts: http://atom.io
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2016-09-05T20:06:24Z zacts: atom is an HTML5/CSS3 + JavaScripted editor
2016-09-05T20:06:24Z jackdaniel: jasom has created geany plugin for CL
2016-09-05T20:06:34Z zacts: what is geany?
2016-09-05T20:06:39Z zacts: is that the gnome text editor?
2016-09-05T20:07:00Z jackdaniel: more IDE
2016-09-05T20:07:05Z zacts: ah ok
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2016-09-05T20:07:21Z zacts: well if I can get JSCL to run on node it might work
2016-09-05T20:07:26Z zacts: node.js
2016-09-05T20:07:35Z zacts investigates
2016-09-05T20:07:38Z jackdaniel: jscl works on node.js
2016-09-05T20:07:43Z jackdaniel: but it's not full CL (yet)
2016-09-05T20:07:57Z zacts: oh cool
2016-09-05T20:08:10Z PuercoPop: zacts: I think Parenscript would be better if you want to start today
2016-09-05T20:08:11Z jackdaniel: afair author mentioned something about adding virtual filesystem to it, so it is possible to load files or systems
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2016-09-05T20:08:28Z zacts: PuercoPop: ah ok
2016-09-05T20:08:33Z zacts: I'll check out ParenScript
2016-09-05T20:09:18Z zacts: does ParenScript provide anything like CLOS?
2016-09-05T20:09:29Z zacts: I don't really need a bunch of Common Lisp libraries, but CLOS would be cool
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2016-09-05T20:09:42Z zacts: I'm checking out the GitHub page now
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2016-09-05T20:10:20Z zacts: ah
2016-09-05T20:10:20Z zacts: https://github.com/gonzojive/paren-psos
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2016-09-05T20:10:23Z zacts: ^ this provides a CLOS-like system
2016-09-05T20:10:30Z zacts: cool, I'm set then for my goals I think
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2016-09-05T20:10:48Z jackdaniel: good luck :)
2016-09-05T20:10:52Z zacts: thanks!
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2016-09-05T21:05:44Z dim: is there a dynamic way to set the dynamic image size of a SBCL process?
2016-09-05T21:06:02Z dim: I'm thinking of the --dynamic-space-size option to buildapp
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2016-09-05T21:16:03Z axion: You can only specify this when starting the process
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2016-09-05T21:23:15Z pipping: slightly off-topic: wondering if anyone who runs gitlab.common-lisp.net is around.
2016-09-05T21:24:05Z pipping: not sure if it's just me but downloads (not git clones) appear to be broken. steps to reproduce: go to (e.g.) https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf click the 'download zip' button, be taken to https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/repository/archive.zip?ref=master -> nothing
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2016-09-05T21:25:31Z dim: axion: which means when building the binary if you save lisp and die
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2016-09-05T21:45:25Z axion: pipping: I can't reproduce that. All downloads work for me
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2016-09-05T21:47:10Z pipping: axion: hm, weird. I've tried it from multiple hosts from multiple countries now. `curl 'https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/repository/archive.zip?ref=master'` just gives me nothing.
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2016-09-05T21:51:00Z phadthai: pipping: I get a 0 bytes file for that url
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2016-09-05T21:51:59Z pipping: right. curl gives me nothing, browsers and wget will create a file but it'll be empty. yay, it's not just me.
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2016-09-05T22:24:40Z raydeejay: I want to write a function that takes either a symbol or a list. Should I use two defmethods and have the one that operates on a list call the other one?
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2016-09-05T22:25:49Z Bike: that's one thing to do, but without understanding what the function does it's hard to give a very specific answer
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2016-09-05T22:27:21Z raydeejay: (defun gpio-export (pin)
2016-09-05T22:27:21Z raydeejay:   (with-open-file (f "blah" :direction :output :if-exists :append)
2016-09-05T22:27:21Z raydeejay:     (format f "~A" pin)))
2016-09-05T22:27:32Z raydeejay: rocket science
2016-09-05T22:28:08Z Bike: uh... and what does it do with a list?
2016-09-05T22:29:02Z raydeejay: (mapc #'fn pinS)
2016-09-05T22:29:08Z raydeejay: so to speak
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2016-09-05T22:29:55Z Bike: i think in that case, personally, i'd have an internal function that does the gpio-export thing, and then have (defun external (list-designator) (if (listp list-designator) (mapc #'internal list-designator) (internal list-designator))
2016-09-05T22:32:27Z raydeejay: is there something inherently smelly with the CLOS solution?
2016-09-05T22:33:19Z Bike: nah. but generic functions are good when you're expecting more methods. this doesn't seem to be like that.
2016-09-05T22:33:41Z raydeejay: no, it's pretty much a single pin number or a list of them, as far as I can foresee
2016-09-05T22:33:45Z Bike: even if i was, the operation on sequences is kind of different from the actual outputting
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2016-09-05T22:34:23Z imightbestupid12: What word begins with N and ends with R that you never, ever want to call a black person?
2016-09-05T22:34:23Z raydeejay: thanks :
2016-09-05T22:34:28Z raydeejay: )
2016-09-05T22:34:54Z Bike: eg, ql:quickload just has (unless (consp systems) (setf systems (list systems))) and then iterates over the list
2016-09-05T22:35:14Z raydeejay: that was the very first thing I thought, except with let
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2016-09-05T22:51:35Z pierpa: wrt to the symbol/list argument, the classic solution is to apply the function MKLIST to the argument, where MKLIST is defined as (defun mklist (x) (if (atom x) (list x) x))
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2016-09-05T22:52:33Z pierpa: this function was present in some older lisp dialects but it didn't made it to CL
2016-09-05T22:52:53Z Bike: it's in alexandria as ensure-list.
2016-09-05T22:53:31Z pierpa: good. This an exemplar case where it comes handy.
2016-09-05T22:53:37Z pierpa: *this is
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2016-09-05T23:57:21Z raydeejay: I ended up with this https://github.com/raydeejay/rpi-gpio
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