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I've used the function and know why it exists. 2016-09-01T01:02:21Z pillton: The system alexandria has the function mappend which is a "safer" version of mapcan. 2016-09-01T01:02:45Z pareidolia: I have a function that gives me RGB values, and another that has just the same fraction of 1 of a certain length (12 for 4 channels) 2016-09-01T01:02:54Z pareidolia: Then I mapcar 'm in parallel and multiply... 2016-09-01T01:03:54Z pareidolia: I mean lists 2016-09-01T01:03:59Z lisp557: ok (mappend #'identity (make-list n :initial-element list)) 2016-09-01T01:04:05Z pillton: The idea of using lists for image data is not appealing to me. 2016-09-01T01:04:14Z pareidolia: Image data? 2016-09-01T01:04:23Z pillton: RGB values. 2016-09-01T01:04:28Z pareidolia: It's a lighting system, DMX 2016-09-01T01:05:02Z pareidolia: So I'm just composing lists of values between 0 and 256 2016-09-01T01:06:12Z pareidolia: I run 18 channels now, 4 * RGB led strips, 3 dimmable fluorescents with 1-10v dimming and another RGB led strip 2016-09-01T01:07:14Z pareidolia: I'm using astronomical calculations to bend the color towards red during the night 2016-09-01T01:09:22Z pillton: I'd just run away from the observer. :) 2016-09-01T01:09:33Z pareidolia: Observer? 2016-09-01T01:09:49Z raydeejay: shift to red 2016-09-01T01:10:56Z pareidolia: Sorry it's 3am here 2016-09-01T01:11:05Z pareidolia: It took a while for the coin to drop 2016-09-01T01:11:11Z raydeejay: xD 2016-09-01T01:11:44Z raydeejay: but that solution is not really optimised for space, pillton 2016-09-01T01:12:00Z pillton: I'm useless in the physical world. 2016-09-01T01:12:55Z raydeejay: on the other hand, shifting should be fast... 2016-09-01T01:13:05Z raydeejay: I'll leave it here xD 2016-09-01T01:13:55Z lisp557: (+1) 2016-09-01T01:14:02Z arescorpio quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T01:14:43Z pareidolia: So this way I get all the perks like a sunset alarm clock, a wireless X10 remote control with LIRC 2016-09-01T01:14:50Z pareidolia: sunrise* 2016-09-01T01:15:54Z pillton: I thought the brain preferred blue hues at night time? 2016-09-01T01:16:15Z pillton: Anyway, we should get back on topic. 2016-09-01T01:16:30Z raydeejay: blue tricks the brain into keeping alert.. but yes 2016-09-01T01:16:32Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-09-01T01:18:11Z pareidolia: Better sleep is the goal: https://www.supermemo.com/en/articles/sleep 2016-09-01T01:18:26Z lisp557 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-09-01T01:23:07Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp 2016-09-01T01:24:18Z PlasmaStar is now known as PlasmaSta 2016-09-01T01:31:55Z sellout- joined #lisp 2016-09-01T01:38:03Z renz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-09-01T01:44:19Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2016-09-01T01:51:01Z renz joined #lisp 2016-09-01T01:53:50Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T01:56:46Z akkad: slack client in ql now. nice 2016-09-01T02:00:34Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:01:13Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2016-09-01T02:01:38Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T02:02:25Z ekinmur joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:03:13Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-09-01T02:04:11Z o`connor joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:04:44Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.) 2016-09-01T02:13:03Z quickoats joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:13:38Z quickoats quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T02:17:19Z jokleinn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T02:17:52Z jokleinn joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:20:46Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-09-01T02:21:36Z myrkraverk: akkad: really? Where? 2016-09-01T02:21:56Z quickoats joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:22:51Z akkad: https://github.com/kkazuo/slack-client/ 2016-09-01T02:23:39Z myrkraverk: Thank you. 2016-09-01T02:24:00Z akkad: yeah nice to see stuff like this done by others with skill :P 2016-09-01T02:27:19Z myrkraverk: I've already used the simple messaging API in slack, in Lisp. 2016-09-01T02:27:23Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:27:25Z myrkraverk: But not a fully flexed client. 2016-09-01T02:27:27Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-09-01T02:27:28Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_ 2016-09-01T02:36:12Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:36:24Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-09-01T02:36:24Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_ 2016-09-01T02:39:33Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T02:40:50Z quickoats quit 2016-09-01T02:41:05Z Quakeroats joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:46:45Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:47:15Z arescorpio joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:47:25Z fiddlerwoaroof: I've been working on one of those too 2016-09-01T02:48:28Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T02:48:36Z fiddlerwoaroof: Although, it's not too usable yet 2016-09-01T02:48:53Z Quickoats joined #lisp 2016-09-01T02:52:03Z Quakeroats quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:01:59Z Quakeroats joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:02:11Z Quickoats quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T03:04:32Z loke: akkad: Or, you can use potato, which is a slack workalike, compltely written in Lisp (server and client) 2016-09-01T03:04:44Z loke: Just drumming my horn here :-) 2016-09-01T03:06:34Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-09-01T03:09:16Z renz quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:12:46Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:15:00Z cibs joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:17:22Z Quakeroats: it looks nice, potato =) 2016-09-01T03:18:23Z cromachina: what a charming name... 2016-09-01T03:20:17Z k3rn31 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:21:43Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:21:55Z renz joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:22:41Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:24:46Z ZombieChicken: Can someone give me a rough idea on the naming convension used in the hyperspec? I'm trying to find a few functions and I'm not sure what I should be looking at or for 2016-09-01T03:25:14Z d4ryus joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:26:06Z Quakeroats: no convention except tradition, usually 2016-09-01T03:26:07Z Bike: uh, varies. what do you want? 2016-09-01T03:26:40Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:27:11Z ZombieChicken: trying to find out how to deterime if a file exist and what it's properties are (specifically, can the current user execute it). I'm trying to replace a small shell script with a Lisp version 2016-09-01T03:27:17Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:27:29Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:27:30Z Bike: well, one thing you can do is just go through the clhs by section 2016-09-01T03:28:03Z cromachina: clhs probe-file 2016-09-01T03:28:03Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_probe_.htm 2016-09-01T03:28:29Z Bike: right, so that's in chapter 20, "Files" 2016-09-01T03:28:56Z ZombieChicken: Some reason I'm having troubles figuring out where to go in the hyperspec. I think I need to wake up more before doing this 2016-09-01T03:28:59Z ZombieChicken: heh 2016-09-01T03:29:07Z ZombieChicken: Bike: Yeah, I found that shortly before you mentioned it 2016-09-01T03:29:07Z Bike: as for the second part, lisp filesystem is probably too vague, you might want to call the system utilities 2016-09-01T03:30:06Z k3rn31 quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2016-09-01T03:30:42Z cromachina: i would google things you are thinking. it often leads you to the hyperspec pages you are seeking 2016-09-01T03:31:12Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:31:32Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:33:00Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:33:01Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_ 2016-09-01T03:33:51Z asc232 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:37:26Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:37:57Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:38:08Z Griff`Ron joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:39:26Z Walex quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T03:40:22Z renz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:42:15Z Quakeroats quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T03:42:44Z ZombieChicken: Okay, I can't find anything either via web search nor going through the hyperspec's various indexes and ToCs. I'm trying to find a file (in this case emerge, which is Gentoo's package manager), make sure it is executable by the current user, then have the script execute emerge. I have to do this for a number of similar programs, but I honestly can't seem to find anything. 2016-09-01T03:43:35Z Quakeroats joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:44:24Z cromachina: is it necessary to find it if you already know it exists? 2016-09-01T03:44:49Z Bike: like i said, there's probably nothing in (standard) lisp. there's definitely not anything to execute a file. 2016-09-01T03:44:54Z Bike: you should probably look at uiop 2016-09-01T03:45:05Z cromachina: run-program, specifically 2016-09-01T03:45:16Z Bike: well, also the file interface for the rest 2016-09-01T03:45:41Z ZombieChicken: The more I looked, the more I seemed to remember that CL seemed to be missing that useful little tidbit 2016-09-01T03:46:08Z cromachina: nothing a library cant handle 2016-09-01T03:46:52Z ZombieChicken: Just a little odd how functionality that is embedded in so many languages these days is apparently entirely lacking in CL (outside of a nonstandard library) 2016-09-01T03:47:12Z cromachina: thank the terrible standard 2016-09-01T03:47:20Z Bike: well, CL is an average of existing systems, and on some of those systems "executing a file" meant cl:load 2016-09-01T03:47:22Z asc232 quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2016-09-01T03:47:32Z pillton: The standard isn't terrible. You just don't know its history. 2016-09-01T03:47:36Z asc232 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:47:42Z ZombieChicken: The standard is what, 20 years old? 2016-09-01T03:47:48Z ZombieChicken: and I'm roughly familiar with it, I think 2016-09-01T03:47:52Z Griff`Ron quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-09-01T03:48:13Z mastokley joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:48:26Z Bike: i mean, if you're on a lisp machine you ain't gotta execute shit externalwise 2016-09-01T03:48:46Z Bike: naturally this is weird for us kids and our unixes and our windows, and it would be nice to have, but it's just not there. 2016-09-01T03:49:03Z ZombieChicken: Yeah 2016-09-01T03:49:45Z loke: ZombieChicken: CL is different from most other languages in that it has a stable core with multiple implementations. Most evolution which in single-implementation languages like Ruby or Go happens on the "language" level, happens on the library level in CL. 2016-09-01T03:50:06Z myrkraverk: ZombieChicken: You can do this with the SBCL posix extension. 2016-09-01T03:50:17Z Griff`Ron joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:50:34Z pillton: Yes. This confusion between library and language really infuriates me. 2016-09-01T03:50:34Z myrkraverk: ZombieChicken: And probably also several portability wrappers. 2016-09-01T03:51:01Z cromachina: oh, non-standard, how risqué 2016-09-01T03:52:50Z renz joined #lisp 2016-09-01T03:53:10Z ZombieChicken left #lisp 2016-09-01T03:56:08Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-09-01T03:57:07Z Quakeroats: bike=) 2016-09-01T03:57:28Z dendiz joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:00:05Z mastokley quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T04:00:20Z dendiz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T04:01:10Z mastokley joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:06:16Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:08:41Z ksool joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:09:22Z Quakeroats quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:14:42Z PlasmaSta quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:15:23Z oleo_ quit (Changing host) 2016-09-01T04:15:24Z oleo_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:15:26Z oleo_ is now known as oleo 2016-09-01T04:17:15Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-09-01T04:20:05Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:20:29Z j0ni quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T04:30:48Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T04:32:44Z egorpe joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:32:51Z shifty779 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:35:36Z jokleinn1 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:37:16Z egorpe quit (Client Quit) 2016-09-01T04:37:21Z eschulte quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:37:35Z eschulte joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:37:58Z jokleinn quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:37:58Z CEnnis91 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:38:02Z velvetcore quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T04:38:02Z gbyers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T04:38:25Z mmos quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:38:27Z banjiewen quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T04:38:32Z shdeng quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:38:39Z Ando joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:39:00Z mmos joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:39:22Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:39:25Z Atarian quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:40:05Z banjiewen joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:40:23Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:40:24Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_ 2016-09-01T04:40:30Z shdeng joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:40:36Z velvetcore joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:41:07Z renz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T04:41:40Z gbyers joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:42:04Z gerrard00 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:42:14Z NaNDude quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T04:42:37Z NaNDude joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:44:12Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:45:07Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:45:31Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:48:40Z alexherb1 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:49:26Z vlatkoB joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:49:37Z groovy2shoes joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:50:27Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T04:52:18Z alexherbo2 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:53:02Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T04:53:02Z c6248 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:55:10Z EvW joined #lisp 2016-09-01T04:59:34Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2016-09-01T05:00:26Z c6248 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-09-01T05:02:57Z gerrard00 left #lisp 2016-09-01T05:03:07Z lancetw quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T05:03:08Z pootler_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T05:03:33Z sz0 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T05:03:34Z kilimanjaro quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T05:04:45Z pootler_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T05:05:29Z jlarocco joined #lisp 2016-09-01T05:06:12Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp 2016-09-01T05:06:15Z lancetw joined #lisp 2016-09-01T05:06:40Z sz0 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T05:09:34Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/) 2016-09-01T05:09:53Z rpg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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#lisp 2016-09-01T14:05:42Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T14:05:47Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T14:05:53Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T14:06:01Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:06:02Z kushal joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:07:26Z Grue`` joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:09:06Z kmb joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:10:51Z pipopa7689 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:12:24Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:12:42Z porky11 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:12:47Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:13:12Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-09-01T14:13:12Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_ 2016-09-01T14:21:13Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2016-09-01T14:21:49Z rpg joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:22:06Z sai_rongzhj joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:24:11Z mishoo: seems to me that SBCL is the only implementation worth using (out of these three at least): 2016-09-01T14:24:12Z mishoo: https://gist.github.com/mishoo/503d4bf67da4e18fbab6c5e26c498df7 2016-09-01T14:26:56Z Xach: mishoo: Did you compile the allegro stuff? 2016-09-01T14:26:57Z rpg: mishoo: Depends what you're doing. I know a lot of people like CCL because its compiler is so fast, and it's great for Mac integration. I prefer ACL, because I think it has the best debugger of all the implementations. 2016-09-01T14:27:21Z sellout- joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:27:30Z rpg delivers on SBCL often, though. 2016-09-01T14:27:32Z mishoo: Xach: I've just loaded it with quickload 2016-09-01T14:27:52Z Xach: That will normally compile it. 2016-09-01T14:28:08Z rpg: that "lambdas converted" though.... 2016-09-01T14:28:22Z rpg: anyway, off to work.... 2016-09-01T14:28:42Z rpg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-09-01T14:29:05Z mishoo: anyway, I understand the free allegro is 32-bit so that justifies it. but CCL... didn't expect such a huge difference between it and SBCL 2016-09-01T14:30:02Z mishoo: right, I don't know what "lambdas converted" signifies.. is that bad? :) 2016-09-01T14:32:11Z robotoad joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:32:37Z sai_rongzhj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T14:33:52Z vlnx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-09-01T14:34:00Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T14:34:15Z sai_rongzhj joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:34:46Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:36:00Z dim: nowadays I prefer using CCL for development and produce images with SBCL 2016-09-01T14:36:28Z dim: but with (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 3) in the ~/.sbclrc it amounts to about the same experience anyway 2016-09-01T14:36:52Z dim: I also prefer CCL's GC to SBCL's one 2016-09-01T14:36:58Z dim: it's really much better in my use cases 2016-09-01T14:38:49Z dim: mishoo: if you're interested into not-so-random benchmarks (but still quite so) have a look at https://github.com/dimitri/sudoku too 2016-09-01T14:40:20Z tristero joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:40:37Z kmb quit (Quit: kmb) 2016-09-01T14:41:18Z mishoo: nice to see that CL is faster than Python (nothing I wouldn't expect, anyway) 2016-09-01T14:42:06Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:45:03Z marco__ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T14:47:58Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-09-01T14:49:35Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T14:49:43Z EvW joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:51:51Z vlnx joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:53:48Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T14:53:55Z renz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T14:54:22Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T14:54:57Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2016-09-01T14:56:26Z robotoad quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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If your tightest loop is manipulating at the word or byte level, sbcl will dominate though. 2016-09-01T17:28:57Z jasom: PuercoPop: good to know. 2016-09-01T17:30:55Z mishoo: yeah, it's that one. and indeed, bitwise ops on fixnums are most of what's going on 2016-09-01T17:32:45Z mishoo: I'd like to improve speed in other implementations, but I don't know how.. SBCL is faster by a long shot 2016-09-01T17:33:09Z jasom: Also when sbcl can't inline calls of known types and the safety-level is non-zero it starts to behave a lot more like other lisps. 2016-09-01T17:33:22Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp 2016-09-01T17:33:42Z mishoo: safety is 1 2016-09-01T17:34:27Z jasom: mishoo: right, but inlining is possible between all functions in board.lisp which lets it elide a lot of type checks 2016-09-01T17:35:47Z jasom: consider a parameter passed from function A to function B to function C. If they all declare the parameter to be e.g. fixnum, sbcl will still emit code to check at every function call boundary that it really is a fixnum. 2016-09-01T17:36:22Z mishoo: I understand — inlining would prevent two checks here, right? 2016-09-01T17:36:22Z jasom: If C gets inlined in B and B gets inlined in A, then there is no function call boundary, so the type is only checked at the outer-most point 2016-09-01T17:36:27Z jasom: mishoo: yup 2016-09-01T17:36:48Z mishoo: well, totally makes sense... don't other implementations do similarly? 2016-09-01T17:38:10Z jasom: mishoo: The Python compiler that was the basis for cmucl and sbcl had its main claim to fame being its very smart propagation of numeric types. That is the bread and butter of sbcl, whereas other compilers may not be as smart. 2016-09-01T17:38:37Z zaon quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-09-01T17:40:11Z jasom: mishoo: with more type annotations other compilers might do better, for example. 2016-09-01T17:40:32Z zaon joined #lisp 2016-09-01T17:40:56Z mishoo: speaking of which, I could not figure out why I need to declare these types twice here: https://github.com/mishoo/queen.lisp/blob/master/eval.lisp#L230-L232 2016-09-01T17:41:31Z mishoo: without the lines above, SBCL would produce compilation notes. I believe those types should have been inferred 2016-09-01T17:42:34Z jasom: if it doesn't inline the call to rec, it won't infer the types. 2016-09-01T17:43:01Z jasom: or rather, any time rec is called when it isn't inlined, the types won't be inferred. 2016-09-01T17:43:32Z jasom: And inlining recursive functions is problematic, so you need to declare. 2016-09-01T17:43:56Z mishoo: it is recursive and inlining it doesn't quite make sense (maybe just the first call? is that even possible?..) 2016-09-01T17:43:57Z madbub quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T17:43:59Z Bike: some of that's a bit hard to infer also 2016-09-01T17:44:32Z Bike: like for alpha you call rec with (- 0 alpha 1) while saying it's an (integer -32000 32000), i assume there's some nontrivial condition that keeps it bounded 2016-09-01T17:44:32Z dlowe: you can inline a recursive function if it has tail calls 2016-09-01T17:44:50Z jasom: Also the notes are part of how it makes up for its limited intelligence 2016-09-01T17:44:59Z zaon quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T17:45:03Z jasom: dlowe: well, sort of. You can convert it to a loop which is different from inlining 2016-09-01T17:45:03Z varjag joined #lisp 2016-09-01T17:45:11Z mishoo: but it isn't tail recursive 2016-09-01T17:45:12Z zaon joined #lisp 2016-09-01T17:45:16Z madbub joined #lisp 2016-09-01T17:45:27Z dlowe: the resulting looping function can then be inlined 2016-09-01T17:45:34Z jasom: dlowe: (defun foo () (foo)) <-- you cannot inline every call to foo. 2016-09-01T17:45:56Z jasom: dlowe: you can inline the outer-call of a generally recursive function with no problems as well 2016-09-01T17:46:00Z dlowe: sure you can. it's just a jump $PC-1 2016-09-01T17:46:31Z jasom: dlowe: it's the transform that is done on the recursive calls that is interesting, and I wouldn't call transforming a tail-call to a loop "inlining" 2016-09-01T17:46:39Z dlowe: neither would I 2016-09-01T17:47:11Z Bike: actually hang on, if alpha is 32000 i think that would violate the type? though i don't know what with-move does 2016-09-01T17:47:11Z dlowe: but the fact is that you can inline some (but not all) recursive functions by doing a tail-call optimization 2016-09-01T17:47:12Z jasom: As I was saying, compiler notes are basically a way for sbcl to offload some of its optimization onto the programmer 2016-09-01T17:47:28Z dlowe: I think that's a pretty uncontroversial claim 2016-09-01T17:47:55Z jasom: dlowe: you can inline any single call of any function regardless of whether or not the function is recursive 2016-09-01T17:48:33Z jasom: you can remove all calls of a tail-recursive function by converting it to a loop and inlining the resulting function. 2016-09-01T17:48:45Z dlowe: I'm glad you agree with me. :p 2016-09-01T17:48:51Z dlowe: even if you're being difficult about it 2016-09-01T17:49:57Z adolf_stalin quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2016-09-01T17:50:04Z Ven joined #lisp 2016-09-01T17:51:16Z mishoo: what was puzzling to me was that initially there was no `rec` function, and `pvs` just called itself — and there were no notes 2016-09-01T17:51:39Z mishoo: the reason why I added the inner function was that later I wanted to check whether I am at the top depth (this line: https://github.com/mishoo/queen.lisp/blob/master/eval.lisp#L233) 2016-09-01T17:51:54Z mishoo: and then it was rather strange that I got notes and had to add the inner declarations as well 2016-09-01T17:52:53Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T17:52:57Z Bike: well, when pvs called itself your declarations applied to the whole body. if the notes were about so-and-so variable within rec's body not being known to be of type x, it's because it couldn't infer to rec's body for jasomic reasons 2016-09-01T17:54:20Z mishoo: right. I still think it could have been inferred, but maybe I missed something. will revisit it 2016-09-01T17:54:40Z knicklux joined #lisp 2016-09-01T17:54:54Z mishoo: in any case, happy with this workaround too :) and SBCL just rocks, all my respect! 2016-09-01T17:57:25Z mishoo thinks ..oO( not that my respect is worth anything, but oh well.. I doubt a C implementation of the same algorithm would be any faster. ) 2016-09-01T17:57:45Z zaon left #lisp 2016-09-01T18:02:35Z djinni` joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:03:27Z _death quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T18:05:01Z _death joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:07:05Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:11:13Z schjetne joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:13:05Z araujo joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:17:26Z jstypo joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:20:26Z larsen quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T18:23:26Z larsen joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:24:02Z phoe: Does Lisp have an equivalent of Java's ArrayList? 2016-09-01T18:24:09Z phoe: I mean - is there any popular implementation? 2016-09-01T18:25:00Z shka_: phoe: ... what? 2016-09-01T18:25:34Z shka_: (make-array '(0) :adjustable t :fill-point 0) ? 2016-09-01T18:25:34Z dlowe: phoe: adjustable vectors 2016-09-01T18:25:43Z shka_: *fill-pointer 2016-09-01T18:25:45Z dlowe: they're built in 2016-09-01T18:26:06Z shka_: phoe: that's it? You need any array? 2016-09-01T18:26:44Z phoe: adjustable arrays - got it, thanks. 2016-09-01T18:27:09Z shka_: you can even specialize it for numeric type 2016-09-01T18:27:27Z shka_ is looking at this silly language called python 2016-09-01T18:28:50Z Cthulhux: ewwww. 2016-09-01T18:29:01Z Cthulhux: python is one of the reasons i learned lisp. :-) 2016-09-01T18:30:19Z jstypo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T18:32:51Z jstypo_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:35:12Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-09-01T18:41:25Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/) 2016-09-01T18:42:34Z schjetne joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:43:24Z DougNYC quit 2016-09-01T18:43:45Z NeverDie joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:48:42Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.) 2016-09-01T18:51:37Z jstypo_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2016-09-01T18:53:37Z lnostdal quit (Quit: https://QuantAtaraxia.pw/) 2016-09-01T18:55:43Z DougNYC joined #lisp 2016-09-01T18:59:05Z jstypo joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:00:21Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:03:28Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T19:05:28Z jasom: clhs vector-push-extend 2016-09-01T19:05:28Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_vec_ps.htm 2016-09-01T19:05:39Z jasom: phoe: for appending to an adjustable array see the above 2016-09-01T19:07:00Z larsen quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T19:08:59Z Davidbrcz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T19:09:25Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T19:10:46Z larsen joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:10:56Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-09-01T19:15:15Z mordocai: shka_: If you are thinking about Python that jasom mentioned above in reference to cmucl and sbcl that is a different Python than https://python.org. 2016-09-01T19:18:37Z PuercoPop: apropos an overview of the Python Compiler, https://common-lisp.net/project/cmucl/doc/CMUCL-design.pdf 2016-09-01T19:18:44Z Griff`Ron joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:18:55Z PuercoPop: There was a blog series dedicated to it, but I never got to read it before it was taken offlane 2016-09-01T19:18:59Z PuercoPop: *offline 2016-09-01T19:19:44Z mordocai: PuercoPop: Might be on the wayback machine or web archive if we're lucky. Do you know the url(s)? 2016-09-01T19:20:47Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:20:55Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:22:41Z lnostdal joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:23:15Z jstypo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-09-01T19:23:50Z Griff`Ron quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T19:26:00Z grimsley joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:27:44Z PuercoPop: mordocai: it was a blogpost of some kind, don't really remember, but there is plenty of information in the PDF I just linked, plus there is a smaller paper that is good for a quick overview of the compiler 2016-09-01T19:30:50Z kmb quit (Quit: kmb) 2016-09-01T19:31:50Z mordocai: PuercoPop: Is that this? https://common-lisp.net/project/cmucl/doc/design/Compiler-Overview.html#Compiler-Overview 2016-09-01T19:31:57Z mordocai: (the smaller paper) 2016-09-01T19:35:56Z PuercoPop: no, it is this one http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ram/pub/lfp.ps 2016-09-01T19:36:46Z mordocai: Thanks, adding to my reading list. (along with the longer one) 2016-09-01T19:36:48Z PuercoPop: it is linked from on the post from Paul Khuong https://www.pvk.ca/Blog/2013/04/13/starting-to-hack-on-sbcl/ 2016-09-01T19:39:54Z mordocai: Added as well 2016-09-01T19:40:50Z kmb joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:50:11Z chris_l quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2016-09-01T19:52:03Z Grue`` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-09-01T19:52:04Z EvW joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:52:52Z al-damiri joined #lisp 2016-09-01T19:54:21Z DougNYC quit 2016-09-01T19:55:22Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-09-01T20:01:15Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:09:41Z SumoSudo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T20:11:23Z Cthulhux: the default windows sbcl doesn't seem to support :compression for save-lisp-and-die, at least i get a PRIMITIVE HALT when trying. annoying. :/ how can i catch that? 2016-09-01T20:12:02Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T20:13:16Z mordocai: Cthulhux: Idk the answer, but if you end up not getting an answer here i'd try #sbcl 2016-09-01T20:13:41Z Cthulhux: AFAIR #sbcl is more for dev discussions than for user questions 2016-09-01T20:14:29Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T20:15:46Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T20:15:55Z ggole quit 2016-09-01T20:16:03Z _death: mordocai: there was http://web.archive.org/web/20110818140229/http://insidelisp.blogspot.com/ but you may have trouble checking older posts 2016-09-01T20:16:28Z sjl joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:19:12Z mordocai: Cthulhux: That's a dev question if I ever heard one. In any case, #sbcl has helped with similar questions before 2016-09-01T20:19:22Z Cthulhux: ok thanks :-) 2016-09-01T20:20:30Z Sigyn quit (Quit: I'll Be Back) 2016-09-01T20:21:05Z Sigyn joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:24:09Z asc232 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:28:16Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T20:35:09Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:37:38Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T20:37:57Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T20:38:25Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:41:18Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T20:42:09Z warweasle quit (Quit: Reasons? There are no reasons!) 2016-09-01T20:42:16Z asc232 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T20:43:07Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T20:44:48Z mordocai: Cthulhux: Heh,I should have asked you for a code snippet to begin with before suggesting #sbcl :P 2016-09-01T20:44:57Z tos-1 quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-09-01T20:45:13Z Cthulhux: i don't know the rules here, sorry 2016-09-01T20:45:23Z Cthulhux: lisp is not my mother tongue yet :) 2016-09-01T20:47:00Z mordocai: Cthulhux: Well, to be fair, that's a good part my bad too. I should know better than to assume you were doing the save-lisp-and-die immediately after loading up the repl with no modifications (which is what I assumed). 2016-09-01T20:47:34Z TCZ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:48:02Z Cthulhux: it's boring to work with something as intended 2016-09-01T20:48:04Z Cthulhux: ;-) 2016-09-01T20:50:27Z eivarv quit (Quit: Sleep) 2016-09-01T20:51:04Z eivarv joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:53:15Z eivarv quit (Client Quit) 2016-09-01T20:55:08Z unbalanced joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:55:45Z z3r0_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:56:50Z asc232 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T20:59:26Z mordocai: Cthulhux: I hope you know that next time you ask for help my response is going to be "What did you do this time?" :P 2016-09-01T20:59:45Z Cthulhux: i'll wait until you're in bed. 2016-09-01T21:01:50Z madbub quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T21:05:00Z grimsley quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T21:05:43Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T21:09:34Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T21:10:15Z seg joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:12:34Z xristos quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2016-09-01T21:13:13Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-09-01T21:14:07Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T21:16:03Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-09-01T21:17:03Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-09-01T21:17:25Z norfumpit quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2016-09-01T21:19:22Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:20:55Z warweasle joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:24:03Z phoe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-09-01T21:25:36Z pipopa7689 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T21:26:10Z norfumpit joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:29:11Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T21:29:56Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T21:32:19Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:36:20Z phoe joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:37:14Z z3r0_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:37:29Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:45:55Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-09-01T21:48:34Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-09-01T21:50:52Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T21:51:48Z xaotuk joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:54:14Z mrcom joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:56:32Z prole joined #lisp 2016-09-01T21:57:39Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T21:59:04Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-09-01T21:59:10Z unbalanced quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 2016-09-01T22:01:15Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-09-01T22:02:08Z jstypo joined #lisp 2016-09-01T22:06:12Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-09-01T22:06:32Z mordocai: Where can I make a pull request to change https://www.common-lisp.net/project/lisppaste/? I think it should point to https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/lisppaste/lisppaste/tree/master now instead of CVS? 2016-09-01T22:07:08Z adolf_stalin quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2016-09-01T22:08:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2016-09-01T22:08:31Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2016-09-01T22:08:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2016-09-01T22:11:26Z phoe: The function ERROR accepts a string as its argument. How can I achieve the same behaviour, but with a different condition class and not SIMPLE-ERROR? 2016-09-01T22:12:13Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-09-01T22:18:56Z PuercoPop: mordocai: I think the current lisp-paste source is part of https://github.com/stassats/lisp-bots/ 2016-09-01T22:22:56Z mordocai: PuercoPop: Hmmm... alright. I was looking to run my own pastebin and would like to use lisp(and not write it from scratch). I may have to make some documentation as I go since that looks like even the old README.lisp is gone. 2016-09-01T22:24:58Z mordocai wonders if he can hack it to provide the pastes via /msg to himself. 2016-09-01T22:25:10Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-09-01T22:26:11Z ARM9 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T22:28:13Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-09-01T22:33:28Z Fare joined #lisp 2016-09-01T22:33:52Z jstypo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-09-01T22:34:35Z PuercoPop: there was XML-RPC support as well fwir, one could write an elisp function to paste the buffer/region as well 2016-09-01T22:34:41Z jstypo joined #lisp 2016-09-01T22:35:30Z PuercoPop: having a channel notification would be useful to have restored 2016-09-01T22:36:09Z jasom: PuercoPop: spam is the issue with that 2016-09-01T22:37:21Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T22:37:36Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2016-09-01T22:37:58Z PuercoPop: yeah, 99% of lisppaste was spam bins 2016-09-01T22:41:56Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T22:44:19Z rpg joined #lisp 2016-09-01T22:46:39Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-09-01T22:55:55Z asc232 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T22:56:30Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2016-09-01T22:59:11Z robotoad quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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I need to read a PDB file and they used #\' as part of the atom names. 2016-09-01T23:13:00Z norfumpit joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:13:06Z drmeister: I'm using CL symbols for names because strings are stupid. 2016-09-01T23:13:09Z Bike: yeah, this seems to work 2016-09-01T23:13:40Z drmeister: Woot! 2016-09-01T23:13:42Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/t0Q2u9gT/ 2016-09-01T23:13:50Z drmeister: --> |AB'C| 2016-09-01T23:13:59Z drmeister: I love Common Lisp 2016-09-01T23:16:38Z Jesin joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:17:45Z robotoad quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T23:18:29Z robotoad joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:21:39Z xristos joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:22:03Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-09-01T23:23:42Z maroloccio joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:23:48Z maroloccio left #lisp 2016-09-01T23:26:06Z lnostdal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-09-01T23:29:03Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-09-01T23:33:48Z AndChat|144384 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:33:51Z AndChat|144384 quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-09-01T23:34:11Z AndChat|144384 joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:34:59Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:35:51Z pipopa7689 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-09-01T23:36:42Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-09-01T23:39:43Z phoe: drmeister: exactly! That's the pitfall that I ended up in. 2016-09-01T23:40:06Z phoe: When READ encounters a non-macro-character, it completely ignores all non-terminating macro characters it encounters. 2016-09-01T23:40:25Z phoe: Like - their macro character functions don't fire. 2016-09-01T23:40:47Z phoe: drmeister: know what's confusing? 2016-09-01T23:40:50Z phoe: clhs read-delimited-list 2016-09-01T23:40:50Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_del.htm 2016-09-01T23:41:01Z Jesin joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:41:13Z phoe: READ-DELIMITED-LIST does *not* ignore macro-characters inside tokens. 2016-09-01T23:41:15Z drmeister: So is there a problem with what I'm doing? Some trap I'm not seeing? 2016-09-01T23:41:43Z phoe: Wait wait. 2016-09-01T23:41:56Z phoe: Again - what are you trying to achieve here? 2016-09-01T23:42:41Z phoe: Oh, wait wait wait wait. 2016-09-01T23:42:45Z phoe: I totally misread that. 2016-09-01T23:42:56Z phoe: You just cleared the macro function for #\'. 2016-09-01T23:43:17Z phoe: And read "AB'C" as a single token that ended up being a symbol. 2016-09-01T23:43:52Z phoe: I derped up. Don't mind me. 2016-09-01T23:44:35Z phoe: But - this code seems to do exactly what it's meant to do. I don't see any hidden traps in here. 2016-09-01T23:46:19Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-09-01T23:48:41Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:52:35Z ekinmur joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:52:56Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-09-01T23:54:45Z abstract-alf joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:54:53Z abstract-alf: elisp question: how can I define a function or macro that takes the form ("/" "E") and yields ("/" (insert "E") "E") ? 2016-09-01T23:54:54Z jleija joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:57:27Z ekinmur quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-09-01T23:57:53Z jstypo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-09-01T23:58:10Z Fare joined #lisp 2016-09-01T23:58:33Z cromachina joined #lisp