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2016-08-03T00:51:30Z akkad: e.g. (defparameter mytime (time (someform))) 2016-08-03T00:51:38Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp 2016-08-03T00:52:54Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T00:52:57Z cromachina: try get-internal-real-time 2016-08-03T00:56:52Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T00:57:13Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T00:57:43Z mastokley quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:00:32Z akkad: was using universal 2016-08-03T01:01:17Z Denommus` joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:01:30Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:02:14Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:02:52Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:06:16Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:06:25Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:10:41Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:11:27Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:11:28Z arescorpio joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:13:21Z Denommus` is now known as Denommus 2016-08-03T01:13:23Z fluter joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:15:43Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:16:09Z akkad: cromachina: is that in seconds/ms? comparable between implementations if used for timing? 2016-08-03T01:16:22Z akkad: iirc ccl used like higher resolution. 2016-08-03T01:17:28Z cromachina: it's in internal time units 2016-08-03T01:17:42Z cromachina: so divide your answer by internal-time-units-per-second 2016-08-03T01:17:54Z akkad: excellent. thanks 2016-08-03T01:18:50Z cromachina: np 2016-08-03T01:18:51Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:19:49Z akkad: 1000000 vs 1000 yeah... they are a bit higher res :P 2016-08-03T01:19:56Z cromachina: there is also a function get-internal-run-time, which measures time by the process 2016-08-03T01:20:03Z cromachina: instead of wall time 2016-08-03T01:20:11Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:22:45Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T01:22:58Z akkad: very nice 2016-08-03T01:23:02Z akkad: much cleaner 2016-08-03T01:23:23Z akkad: do you still have to use conversion on the get-internal-run-time? 2016-08-03T01:24:59Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:24:59Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:25:19Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:33:05Z akkad: like: (let ((btime (get-internal-run-time))) (sleep 2)(- (get-internal-run-time) btime)) 2016-08-03T01:38:20Z IPmonger quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3 - http://znc.in) 2016-08-03T01:38:38Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:42:51Z omilu quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-08-03T01:42:52Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:43:06Z mnoonan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:43:07Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:44:10Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:47:48Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:50:17Z Urchin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:52:03Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-08-03T01:55:15Z mnoonan joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:56:59Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T01:58:08Z pillton figured out how to do it. 2016-08-03T01:58:47Z cromachina: yeah it applies to both timing functions 2016-08-03T01:59:47Z pillton: I was referring to my earlier question. 2016-08-03T02:01:28Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T02:02:06Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:02:34Z adolf_stalin quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2016-08-03T02:03:07Z Urchin joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:06:12Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-08-03T02:08:07Z Sucks joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:08:59Z Sucks quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-08-03T02:09:30Z Sucks joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:10:46Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2016-08-03T02:11:12Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:14:17Z lnostdal joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:15:40Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-08-03T02:21:35Z mastokley joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:28:30Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T02:38:29Z mastokley quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T02:39:14Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:41:30Z vsync joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:41:35Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T02:41:37Z vsync quit (Client Quit) 2016-08-03T02:42:22Z mastokley joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:47:36Z mastokley quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-08-03T02:48:33Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-08-03T02:49:57Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T02:54:32Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-08-03T02:58:21Z jason_m: I was scanning through the past couple days' logs and the topic has come up a couple of times, but I don't know the answer to this: Has anyone deployed a clack application using fastcgi? 2016-08-03T02:58:54Z jason_m: I have a hosted account with an apache server. mod_proxy is not available, but cgi/fastcgi is. 2016-08-03T02:58:58Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T03:01:56Z pillton: I think there is a #lispweb channel. 2016-08-03T03:03:47Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T03:04:04Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T03:06:10Z jason_m: pillton: Ah, I'll check that out. 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2016-08-03T07:26:52Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T07:27:13Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:27:25Z krasnal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-08-03T07:31:32Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-08-03T07:32:25Z piterbig joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:36:00Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:36:47Z piterbig: How to read XML format file in common lisp 2016-08-03T07:38:04Z piterbig: nodelist element how to distinguish 2016-08-03T07:39:52Z H4ns: piterbig: https://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/ 2016-08-03T07:40:39Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-08-03T07:40:42Z piterbig: thank you very much 2016-08-03T07:40:52Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T07:41:24Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:41:37Z krasnal joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:42:04Z random-person joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:43:40Z mathrick joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:44:09Z ovenpasta joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:44:50Z random-person: Is it idiomatic to use #'IDENTITY as a predicate to check that an object is truthy? Or should I use (COMPLEMENT #'NULL)? 2016-08-03T07:45:07Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:45:28Z Bike: identity is ok. 2016-08-03T07:45:42Z Bike: maybe put a comment if you're worried about it. 2016-08-03T07:45:58Z random-person: Ok, thanks. 2016-08-03T07:46:32Z mathrick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-08-03T07:47:23Z mathrick joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:49:51Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-08-03T07:50:07Z varjag joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:50:11Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:50:35Z jackdaniel joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:50:57Z b3atr joined #lisp 2016-08-03T07:51:26Z b3atr: how to run a lisp file by clisp? 2016-08-03T07:52:19Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T07:53:09Z H4ns: random-person: it is idiomatic to use neither #'identity nor (complement #'null) 2016-08-03T07:53:34Z H4ns: random-person: instead of (when (identity blah) ...) you write (when blah ...) 2016-08-03T07:53:47Z Bike: presumably this is with SOME or something. 2016-08-03T07:53:59Z jackdaniel: yes, I'd think twice what was the authors intention to put identity there 2016-08-03T07:54:52Z H4ns: better be explicit than presume :) 2016-08-03T07:55:22Z random-person: H4ns: I meant as a predicate to pass to higher order functions 2016-08-03T07:56:09Z H4ns: random-person: ok. for that, identity is certainly very useful. sorry for assuming wrongly :) 2016-08-03T07:57:40Z b3atr: what's the common compiler? 2016-08-03T07:57:58Z jackdaniel: b3atr: people who start tend to use either SBCL or CCL 2016-08-03T07:58:08Z jackdaniel: they are both fast and well supported 2016-08-03T07:58:57Z mishoo joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:00:49Z random-p` joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:01:10Z random-p` left #lisp 2016-08-03T08:02:08Z mathrick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-08-03T08:02:12Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2016-08-03T08:04:09Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:04:12Z random-person quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:06:24Z mathrick joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:08:09Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:09:03Z adolf_stalin quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2016-08-03T08:12:57Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:13:15Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:19:41Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:20:08Z dfigrish joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:20:10Z dfigrish: hi 2016-08-03T08:20:35Z b3atr: jackdaniel: cheers 2016-08-03T08:20:49Z gargaml: hello 2016-08-03T08:21:31Z jackdaniel quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T08:22:11Z IPmonger quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3 - http://znc.in) 2016-08-03T08:22:13Z dfigrish: the cffi:load-foreign-library reloads the library only on SBCL :( should'nt it at least signal a error/warning about this fast on another implmenetations? 2016-08-03T08:22:27Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:22:32Z dfigrish: s/fast/fact 2016-08-03T08:24:22Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:25:43Z rszeno joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:26:23Z jackdaniel joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:26:57Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:27:33Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:27:48Z loke: dfigrish: are you saying that load-foreign-library doesn't work on other platforms? 2016-08-03T08:28:27Z Bike: that it doesn't reload 2016-08-03T08:29:49Z Bike: ccl calls dlclose too, so who knows what's happening 2016-08-03T08:30:05Z grouzen joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:30:41Z Bike: even dlclose doesn't actually guarantee that symbols are gone and so on 2016-08-03T08:31:04Z Bike: are you like, constantly recompiling an object or something? you might want to find a different workflow 2016-08-03T08:31:07Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:31:50Z loke: Some operating systems/environments might not even support closing a dynamic library 2016-08-03T08:32:13Z loke: Others (like AIX, if memory serves right) supports loading a library multiple times. 2016-08-03T08:34:29Z asc232 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T08:35:28Z przl joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:35:30Z dfigrish: loke: yes, it doesn't reloads the lib on CCL for instance 2016-08-03T08:35:32Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:35:48Z dfigrish: loke: I'm on Linux 2016-08-03T08:35:50Z Bike: that doesn't mean it doesn't work, that means it doesn't do what you want it to do. 2016-08-03T08:36:14Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:36:43Z dfigrish: Bike: really? well, cffi:reload-foreign-libraries doesn't work than 2016-08-03T08:37:02Z dfigrish: Bike: or it just "won't do what I want" too? 2016-08-03T08:38:39Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:39:12Z vlnx quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:39:32Z Bike: no, that would be actual not working alright 2016-08-03T08:39:41Z b3atr left #lisp 2016-08-03T08:39:43Z Bike: so in what respect is it not reloading 2016-08-03T08:39:55Z moei joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:40:33Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:40:45Z Bike: https://github.com/cffi/cffi/commit/e8670b7e6c416cfb5881174376f4f768c1de3118#diff-503b76786c0e4dd99ba8ab472375ec08 i think the committer had something else in mind, a bit... 2016-08-03T08:41:07Z vlnx joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:42:06Z loke would probably have named that function ENSURE-FOREIGN-LIBS-LOADED or something similar just to be more clear. 2016-08-03T08:43:58Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:44:14Z dfigrish: loke: why? it exactly trying to reload the lib if it loaded already 2016-08-03T08:44:44Z loke: dfigrish: That's not the purpose of the function though, if you read the commit note that Bike posted. 2016-08-03T08:44:56Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:45:51Z Bike: the fact is that what you want to do is unusual, so there's not going to be a lot of support for it 2016-08-03T08:46:07Z dfigrish: loke: shrugs. I see the API, I don't want to think what the committer wrote 5 years ago in the commit message. sorry 2016-08-03T08:46:42Z hhdave joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:46:51Z Bike: you're just going off the name. there's no documentation besides a restatement of that. 2016-08-03T08:47:00Z loke: dfigrish: Exactly. That's why I said I'd have used a better name. 2016-08-03T08:47:17Z Bike: practically speaking, it means that the code was written for a particular purpose which is not yours, so it's not surprising that it wouldn't work for you. 2016-08-03T08:47:25Z dfigrish: loke: uh, well, yeah 2016-08-03T08:47:41Z dfigrish: Bike: yes, but it works on SBCL 2016-08-03T08:47:47Z dfigrish: Bike: as I need 2016-08-03T08:47:52Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:47:59Z Bike: ok, so develop on sbcl i guess. you got lucky. 2016-08-03T08:48:12Z Bike: i assume you're not reloading libraries as part of normal program operations. 2016-08-03T08:48:51Z dfigrish: Bike: okay, but should'nt it at least signal a error/warning when unable to reload on another impls? 2016-08-03T08:49:12Z Bike: no, because that is, apparently, not what it is for. you might be the first person to even want this behavior. 2016-08-03T08:49:28Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:49:56Z Bike: cffi has a mailing list, you could take it up with them https://mailman.common-lisp.net/listinfo/cffi-devel 2016-08-03T08:53:39Z dfigrish: Bike: this is strange, because one of the key features of the Lisp is incremental development style and ability to patch the running system without stopping. I just have a C library which I constantly update but don't want to reload Lisp every time I change it 2016-08-03T08:53:59Z dfigrish: Bike: nothing special 2016-08-03T08:54:08Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:54:22Z Bike: well most of using cffi is using other people's C, rather than your own 2016-08-03T08:57:03Z Bike: having a single program with components in multiple languages is a bit more unusual (but not like, bad) 2016-08-03T08:57:20Z Bike: because they're different languages it's usually better to have them have stable interfaces for each other 2016-08-03T08:57:46Z stepnem joined #lisp 2016-08-03T08:57:50Z dfigrish: Bike: even in this case it can be important -- suppose the web system in Lisp which uses the foreign library which is updated 2016-08-03T08:58:37Z Bike: maybe 2016-08-03T08:58:49Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T08:59:05Z piterbig quit 2016-08-03T08:59:12Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T09:03:36Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T09:05:22Z gko quit (Quit: ZNC - 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I read in a large file and seem to have encountered a situation where it would be beneficial to reserve larger amounts of heap space in order to prevent what I suspect are frequent heap expansions. This will be the first time i've had to delve into these guts, so I figured I'd broach the discussion 2016-08-03T11:02:39Z loke: rumbler3_: I've never needed to in Lisp. I have done it on numerous occasions in Java. 2016-08-03T11:02:50Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp 2016-08-03T11:03:01Z loke: Probably not because of differences in the languages, but becasue I'v enever run such high-load systems in Lisp as I have in Java 2016-08-03T11:04:29Z ovenpasta joined #lisp 2016-08-03T11:05:08Z rumbler3_: my next trick is to perhaps understand why I my code is causing as much allocation as it is, but I haven't spent too much time on this one. or else I should just deploy on a more resourceful machine and move on heh 2016-08-03T11:06:41Z loke: rumbler3_: Probably. 2016-08-03T11:07:31Z rumbler3_: does nklein lurk here? i've recently found his blog and wouldn't mind picking his brain on some things 2016-08-03T11:08:02Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-08-03T11:08:37Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-08-03T11:09:19Z gargaml quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5) 2016-08-03T11:10:52Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2016-08-03T11:11:05Z jackdaniel: PuercoPop: regarding your advice to use 1am vs 5am, I'd say "it depends" – 1am lacks many features I need. Also 1am forces interactive care if some error occurs instead of a tidy report 2016-08-03T11:11:16Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-08-03T11:12:50Z allezbluez1 joined #lisp 2016-08-03T11:13:18Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T11:15:42Z allezbluez quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T11:16:31Z dim: rumbler3_: mmap() to the rescue? 2016-08-03T11:17:23Z jackdaniel: s/error occurs/test fails/ 2016-08-03T11:17:24Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T11:18:23Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T11:19:40Z rumbler3_: dim: i've never used it, but I suppose it allows you to treat files or whatever else as a simple byte array? I can see that being useful for one use case I have 2016-08-03T11:19:48Z malice`: rumbler3_: this might interest you: http://franz.com/support/tech_corner/read-line-variants-071406.lhtml 2016-08-03T11:21:01Z rudolfochrist quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T11:24:08Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-08-03T11:26:59Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T11:27:34Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T11:29:51Z merge quit (Quit: i'm a.out of here) 2016-08-03T11:32:40Z rumbler3_: malice`: yes this looks neat, although I'm dealing with binary data. I'll keep this in mind for the future 2016-08-03T11:38:42Z malice`: good luck then 2016-08-03T11:44:14Z H4ns: rumbler3_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/322077 might be of interest 2016-08-03T11:45:38Z jokleinn quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5) 2016-08-03T11:45:52Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T11:46:45Z mif_ joined #lisp 2016-08-03T11:50:53Z rumbler3_: Thank you 2016-08-03T11:51:04Z przl joined #lisp 2016-08-03T11:58:24Z H4ns: we use that function to map huge files with mainframe data and then randomly access them. works very well. 2016-08-03T11:59:47Z sjl joined #lisp 2016-08-03T12:01:46Z rumbler3_: do you also write to these files in a random way? 2016-08-03T12:02:59Z H4ns: nope. 2016-08-03T12:03:24Z H4ns: but as cl strings are mutable, it might even just work with the same mechanism. 2016-08-03T12:05:54Z allezbluez1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-08-03T12:05:54Z dyelar joined #lisp 2016-08-03T12:06:12Z allezbluez1 joined #lisp 2016-08-03T12:12:56Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-08-03T12:17:36Z mathrick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-08-03T12:18:05Z mathrick joined #lisp 2016-08-03T12:18:57Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-08-03T12:20:45Z keltvek joined #lisp 2016-08-03T12:20:45Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. 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2016-08-03T12:43:44Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp 2016-08-03T12:44:12Z mrottenkolber: Hmm so CL does not require defmethod to be able to specialize on types? 2016-08-03T12:44:47Z jackdaniel: what do you mean? 2016-08-03T12:44:51Z Grue``: it can only specialize on classes. type hierarchy is undecidable 2016-08-03T12:46:11Z mrottenkolber: and there no standard class for FIXNUM :/ 2016-08-03T12:47:04Z jackdaniel: (class-of 3) 2016-08-03T12:47:04Z jackdaniel: # 2016-08-03T12:47:10Z jackdaniel: looks like a class 2016-08-03T12:47:47Z mrottenkolber: BUILT-IN-CLASS not STANDARD-CLASS 2016-08-03T12:47:56Z mrottenkolber: e.g. implementations are not required to have it 2016-08-03T12:47:58Z jackdaniel: you can specialize on any class 2016-08-03T12:49:10Z Grue``: yeah, they are required to have it. otherwise there'd be no point in non-standard classes 2016-08-03T12:49:21Z jackdaniel: mrottenkolber: check out this: https://sellout.github.io/2012/03/03/common-lisp-type-hierarchy/ 2016-08-03T12:49:34Z jackdaniel: it distiguishes between types and built-in-classes 2016-08-03T12:49:37Z deank joined #lisp 2016-08-03T12:49:44Z mrottenkolber: CLISP doesn't have it 2016-08-03T12:49:48Z jackdaniel: seems you are right 2016-08-03T12:49:52Z jackdaniel: fixnum doesn't have to be a class 2016-08-03T12:54:14Z Grue``: specializing on fixnum instead of integer will probably result in heavily implementation-dependent behavior anyway 2016-08-03T12:55:36Z elpatron joined #lisp 2016-08-03T12:56:26Z przl_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T12:57:53Z jerme joined #lisp 2016-08-03T12:59:15Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-08-03T13:03:01Z przl joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:05:24Z mishoo joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:06:28Z scymtym quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T13:07:03Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-08-03T13:08:16Z gingerale joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:08:31Z scymtym joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:08:43Z malice`: CLISP is a bit behind right now, hopefully this will change soon 2016-08-03T13:11:07Z jackdaniel: malice`: it's not a question of being behind – any program which would rely on fixnum being built-in class would be non-conforming 2016-08-03T13:11:18Z jackdaniel: even if all implementations would make it so 2016-08-03T13:11:47Z malice`: I didn't say that it wouldn't 2016-08-03T13:22:03Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-08-03T13:26:07Z przl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-08-03T13:26:21Z przl joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:28:03Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-08-03T13:28:49Z eSVG joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:30:36Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:31:32Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:32:33Z oleo joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:36:29Z warweasle joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:38:08Z kini quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2016-08-03T13:38:46Z al-damiri joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:41:12Z ykm joined #lisp 2016-08-03T13:42:12Z IPmonger joined #lisp 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IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T14:55:47Z Gregory__: Are LISP programmers using LOOP? 2016-08-03T14:56:24Z Gregory__: It really sucks. 2016-08-03T14:57:51Z jackdaniel: Gregory__: it is very english-like, so it may be idiomatic for some. It's generally prefered over DO. That said I like DO more 2016-08-03T14:58:07Z jackdaniel: there is also iterate and do+ 2016-08-03T14:58:34Z jackdaniel: lately Shinmera created his own attempt at the problem "FOR" (https://shinmera.github.io/for/) 2016-08-03T14:58:37Z Gregory__: How do you even explain it to a friend? Just looking at CLHS hurts my eyes. 2016-08-03T14:59:00Z Gregory__: I'm a programmer, not a parser. I don't want to spend much time parsing some esoteric macro syntax 2016-08-03T14:59:29Z jackdaniel: it's a whole DSL, you just learn loop like any other programming language. It may come handy I suppose 2016-08-03T14:59:40Z jackdaniel: format is cryptic too and I use it most of the time for string formatting 2016-08-03T14:59:42Z Gregory__: And afaik COBOL resembled english, too. 2016-08-03T15:00:06Z jackdaniel: g2g, glad to know some people dislike loop as well ;-) 2016-08-03T15:00:14Z jackdaniel: have a nice evening o/ 2016-08-03T15:00:26Z jdz: LOOP is very nice for most simple cases 2016-08-03T15:00:45Z Xach: Gregory__: there are a few things that can be done most clearly and tersely with loop. 2016-08-03T15:01:21Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:01:35Z H4ns: it is a common impulse of beginning CL programmers to dislike loop and dismiss it as "unlispy". many come to like it over the years, as it is nice for the simpler cases. 2016-08-03T15:02:03Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-08-03T15:02:26Z Gregory__: jdz: What cases? 2016-08-03T15:03:19Z Gregory__: Most simple cases can be expressed using do and similar macros(dotimes, dolist). It looks like LOOP is not only ugly and somewhat cryptic, but drags CL programmers away from Lisp features 2016-08-03T15:03:48Z jdz: i use LOOP and don't feel dragged away from Lisp features 2016-08-03T15:04:02Z H4ns: "says the beginning common lisp programmer" :D 2016-08-03T15:04:03Z Xach: LOOP is a CL feature 2016-08-03T15:04:04Z Gregory__: Xach: Some things, like DFS, are really simple to implement with DO. Also clear. 2016-08-03T15:04:31Z Xach: Gregory__: fantastic. if it is clearer, use DO. 2016-08-03T15:04:32Z jdz: i bet every case of DO translated to LOOP is clearer 2016-08-03T15:04:37Z Xach: Gregory__: in my experience, DO is not often the clearest. 2016-08-03T15:05:44Z Gregory__: Xach: well, but then again you have Iterate 2016-08-03T15:05:48Z anunnaki joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:05:49Z jdz: and then there are the value accumulation clauses that are definitely more straight-forward using LOOP than DO 2016-08-03T15:05:51Z Gregory__: which is LOOP done right 2016-08-03T15:06:13Z Gregory__: jdz: I agree that accumulate clauses are useful 2016-08-03T15:06:24Z Gregory__: but I got this in Iterate 2016-08-03T15:06:32Z eudoxia quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T15:06:47Z jdz: good, no reason to complain about LOOP, then, right? 2016-08-03T15:07:35Z akkad: I just started using lisp, because someone on hackernews says I can't be a hacker without knowing it. let me opine on what I think lisp needs to be more popular now. 2016-08-03T15:07:38Z Gregory__: If my car stinks and I can't drive too fast because it will collapse and I will die, then the fact that windows are clear doesn't really help 2016-08-03T15:07:40Z sellout- joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:07:43Z akkad: :P 2016-08-03T15:08:12Z jdz: Gregory__: try using cdr, then! 2016-08-03T15:08:13Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T15:09:26Z Gregory__: Also, sometimes it's just confusing. For example, compare the two snippets from CL and python: (let ((x 0)) (loop for x from 0 below 10 do (print x)) x) 2016-08-03T15:09:33Z Gregory__: I get numbers from 0 to 9 printed, and 0 returned 2016-08-03T15:09:35Z ghard joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:09:58Z Gregory__: whereas in Python I use: x = 0; for x in range(0,10): print x; x 2016-08-03T15:10:04Z H4ns: Gregory__: maybe that is because you don't understand lexical binding. 2016-08-03T15:10:04Z Gregory__: And x evaluates to 9, as it should. 2016-08-03T15:10:15Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:10:27Z jdz: Gregory__: hahaha, funny you bring that up. 2016-08-03T15:11:27Z Gregory__: jdz: And why is that? 2016-08-03T15:14:10Z Grue``: Gregory__: then explain why in python if you do x=0, then a function that increases x by 1, then call this function. why is x still 0? At least in Lisp it actually works! 2016-08-03T15:18:05Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:18:08Z Gregory__: Grue``: I don't understand what you're talking about. it works in Python. 2016-08-03T15:18:20Z eivarv joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:19:50Z Gregory__: (i substitute eol with semicolon): x = 0; def inc_x(): global x; x += 1; x; -> x is equal to 1 now 2016-08-03T15:21:05Z Grue``: you wrote "global x", that's cheating 2016-08-03T15:21:13Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T15:22:37Z Gregory__: No, that's being explicit. 2016-08-03T15:22:50Z Gregory__: You wouldn't want to accidentally edit some global variable. 2016-08-03T15:23:06Z akkad: Xach: are there other packages other than zs3 you use to access other aWS information? 2016-08-03T15:23:53Z Xach: akkad: zaws has the skeleton of accessing many other aws services 2016-08-03T15:24:03Z Xach: akkad: it is incomplete and not documented, unfortunately 2016-08-03T15:27:17Z malice`: Is there something like "range" in other languages? Does alexandria have such thing? I am looking for something concise; (range 1 10) instead of (loop for ...) 2016-08-03T15:27:20Z ghard quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T15:28:30Z akkad: Xach: perfect thanks. will take a look. need my cloudtrail parser to pul from s3 vs local 2016-08-03T15:28:57Z quasus joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:28:58Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-08-03T15:30:14Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T15:30:54Z akkad: if you worked out the oauth stuff the rest should be less painful 2016-08-03T15:31:12Z Gregory__ quit (Quit: Page closed) 2016-08-03T15:31:22Z Xach: malice`: alexandria:iota is one such thing 2016-08-03T15:31:23Z Grue``: malice`: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node347.html 2016-08-03T15:31:49Z Xach: malice`: it will produce the entire list. it's not a lazy iterator or anything like that. 2016-08-03T15:31:54Z Grue``: (implemented by SERIES library) 2016-08-03T15:32:01Z malice`: Xach: Oh, that's true. I hate this naming. 2016-08-03T15:32:20Z malice`: I know its history since you can find the same thing in C++, but that is really dumb. 2016-08-03T15:32:47Z Xach: malice`: what would you prefer? 2016-08-03T15:32:57Z malice`: "range". 2016-08-03T15:33:13Z malice`: iota is perhaps shorter, but tells you nothing about how it should be used 2016-08-03T15:33:17Z Grue``: malice`: in SERIES it's called SCAN-RANGE, so it's pretty close 2016-08-03T15:33:33Z malice`: actually you don't even know how it works until you read about its history and realize that it comes from APL 2016-08-03T15:33:59Z malice`: Grue``: looking into that 2016-08-03T15:34:48Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2016-08-03T15:35:40Z malice`: Yeah, but iota is better for me bacause it does what I want 2016-08-03T15:36:21Z malice`: Series looks kind of nice for larger applications 2016-08-03T15:36:49Z faheem quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T15:36:52Z malice`: but it isn't that concise; (scan-range :from 0 :upto 10) isn't much shorter from (loop from 0 to 10 collect) 2016-08-03T15:37:14Z Grue``: Common Lisp isn't about conciseness 2016-08-03T15:37:26Z Grue``: also, IOTA has a slightly different api from range 2016-08-03T15:38:11Z faheem joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:38:11Z malice`: Yes... Too bad! 2016-08-03T15:38:19Z Grue``: it always returns N numbers. how many numbers does range(a,b,c) return? might be difficult to calculate... 2016-08-03T15:41:28Z shymega quit (Quit: (let ((quit t)) (when quit (message "Leaving.")))) 2016-08-03T15:42:10Z shymega joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:42:19Z shymega quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T15:42:58Z shymega joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:45:04Z jdtest2 joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:46:12Z jdtest quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-08-03T15:48:25Z araujo joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:49:05Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-08-03T15:49:13Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:49:59Z araujo joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:51:07Z mrottenkolber quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T15:51:38Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-08-03T15:52:35Z araujo joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:53:47Z snapfractalpop joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:53:58Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-08-03T15:54:29Z snapfractalpop: javascript dev wondering if there is a good place to toy around with lisp 2016-08-03T15:54:53Z sjl joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:54:58Z araujo joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:55:00Z Xach: snapfractalpop: practical common lisp is a good book to start with 2016-08-03T15:55:34Z snapfractalpop: Xach: what about a repl or something like that.. does such a thing exist? 2016-08-03T15:56:02Z Xach: snapfractalpop: I use emacs, slime, and sbcl for my repl 2016-08-03T15:56:09Z Xach: snapfractalpop: there is no online repl that i know of. 2016-08-03T15:56:18Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-08-03T15:56:37Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T15:56:53Z snapfractalpop: Xach: I'm in a debian (ubuntu) machine.. is there an "interpretter" or something in the repos? 2016-08-03T15:57:16Z araujo joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:57:58Z Xach: snapfractalpop: yes. since it used to be pretty out-of-date, i always get sbcl directly from www.sbcl.org. then i install quicklisp from www.quicklisp.org. then i get slime through quicklisp. and then i wrap it up with a bit of .emacs configuration to make it start up properly. 2016-08-03T15:59:03Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-08-03T15:59:13Z wccoder joined #lisp 2016-08-03T15:59:42Z snapfractalpop: Xach: I use vim.. but I heard even vim users use emacs for lisp for whatever reason.. 2016-08-03T16:00:15Z snapfractalpop: am I inviting a civil war in my mind and in my terminal by proceeding with such?? 2016-08-03T16:00:49Z Xach: snapfractalpop: no, but it can be a little harder to get help, because fewer people use that setup. 2016-08-03T16:00:49Z SiCC: snapfractalpop: check out evil-mode in emacs... the best of both worlds ;] 2016-08-03T16:01:53Z kobain joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:04:42Z pierpa joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:04:48Z Grue``: snapfractalpop: https://ideone.com/ has online Lisp interpreter 2016-08-03T16:05:13Z Grue``: if you want to "toy around" without installing anything 2016-08-03T16:05:29Z snapfractalpop: Grue``: thanks! 2016-08-03T16:06:52Z snapfractalpop: I'll check it out and be back later 2016-08-03T16:06:55Z snapfractalpop left #lisp 2016-08-03T16:09:18Z schjetne joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:10:44Z Xach: Hmm, I'd like to try using ccl::%execvp, but I'm not sure how to construct the argv array, which has to be a macptr. anyone know how? 2016-08-03T16:12:28Z Xach: My actual goal is to have a process replace itself with a freshly compiled version of itself. 2016-08-03T16:12:40Z Xach: Hoping to avoid some wrapper shell-script, but if it can't be helped, it can't be helped. 2016-08-03T16:13:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:13:30Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2016-08-03T16:13:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:13:53Z pmc joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:13:59Z malice` quit (Quit: Page closed) 2016-08-03T16:17:59Z keltvek quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T16:19:42Z brfennpocock: Xach: out of my league in CCL, but make-heap-ivector looks like the kind of thing? 2016-08-03T16:19:51Z Xach: brfennpocock: i'll check it out, thanks 2016-08-03T16:21:07Z oleo: sup sup 2016-08-03T16:23:08Z przl joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:24:49Z przl_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T16:26:44Z phoe: http://www.apress.com/9781484211779 That's CHEAP! 2016-08-03T16:26:52Z harish_ joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:27:52Z jasom: phoe: damn 2016-08-03T16:28:07Z phoe: jasom: bought it yesterday? 2016-08-03T16:28:25Z brfennpocock: Related Titles: “AWAITING COVER” O:-) 2016-08-03T16:29:04Z jasom: seeing an ebook for less than ~ 75% of dead-tree version is very rare 2016-08-03T16:30:04Z phoe: jasom: that's a daily discount 2016-08-03T16:30:16Z wccoder quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T16:30:18Z jasom: I can't not buy it at that price 2016-08-03T16:31:12Z ksool quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-08-03T16:31:48Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:33:07Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-08-03T16:33:14Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T16:33:28Z ksool joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:34:33Z Grue``: oooh, I wanted to read that. how long does the deal last? a day? 2016-08-03T16:36:38Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:37:11Z eivarv quit (Quit: Sleep) 2016-08-03T16:38:05Z phoe: Ayup. 2016-08-03T16:38:23Z Bike joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:47:42Z eivarv joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:47:48Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-08-03T16:51:35Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:51:35Z jasom: I'm flying cross-country this weekend, so I know what I'll be reading 2016-08-03T16:51:49Z wildlander joined #lisp 2016-08-03T16:54:30Z phoe: jasom: SICP? 2016-08-03T16:54:31Z phoe: http://i.imgur.com/MA1nNnM.gif 2016-08-03T16:54:53Z eschatologist: Damn, thanks for posting that! 2016-08-03T16:55:56Z phoe: eschatologist: ~ 2016-08-03T16:55:59Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T16:58:38Z jasom: I don't actually have a copy of SICP 2016-08-03T16:59:42Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T17:00:16Z phoe: jasom: obligatory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdj6deraQ6k goes here 2016-08-03T17:00:47Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:02:13Z jdz: I also just so bought the ebook! 2016-08-03T17:03:05Z jdz: It's now sitting next to all other books I have not read. 2016-08-03T17:03:25Z phoe: jdz: I know the pain. 2016-08-03T17:03:35Z phoe: I'm still to read and work my way through PAIP. 2016-08-03T17:03:41Z phoe: And *all* the examples from PCL. 2016-08-03T17:03:50Z phoe: (It's sad that I only use it for the reference parts.) 2016-08-03T17:03:56Z phoe: (Like, language reference.) 2016-08-03T17:04:04Z jdz: Well, in this case I'm way ahead of you -- I've read PAIP! 2016-08-03T17:04:55Z oleo: i'm not thru with paip either.... 2016-08-03T17:05:15Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-08-03T17:05:33Z oleo: just skimmed it thru, cause some stuff is appearing again and again, just evolving and changing slightly each time..... 2016-08-03T17:05:48Z jasom: though mediocre courses using SICP as a text book are a reason for a lot of people from my generation thinking lisp is primarliy for functional programming 2016-08-03T17:05:53Z dwchandler: I'm sloooowly going through let over lambda 2016-08-03T17:06:07Z oleo: i'm thru with let-over-lambda 2016-08-03T17:06:07Z jdz: Working through the exercises is a whole different thing than reading, though. 2016-08-03T17:06:23Z oleo: got even a pdf version, which i bought online or so 2016-08-03T17:06:30Z oleo: but the pdf version is crippled..... 2016-08-03T17:06:46Z oleo: my book has some extra chapters compared to it 2016-08-03T17:06:51Z dwchandler: jdz: so true about working the exercises 2016-08-03T17:06:57Z jasom: I even heard one story of a 300 level "programming languages" course where they used PLT scheme for two weeks and referred to it in the syllabus as "lisp" 2016-08-03T17:07:08Z oleo: i got the pdf version via scribd or some such 2016-08-03T17:07:31Z jasom: but I'm getting way OT 2016-08-03T17:08:01Z hhdave joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:08:06Z hhdave quit (Client Quit) 2016-08-03T17:09:07Z mathrick joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:09:44Z eivarv quit (Quit: Sleep) 2016-08-03T17:11:12Z Blukunfando joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:13:38Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:15:28Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T17:16:59Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T17:17:06Z Grue``: I had an interviewer say "your resume says you're programming in Lisp. explain why you like functional programming" 2016-08-03T17:17:23Z Grue``: and I'm like "...well I don't, particularly, like it..." 2016-08-03T17:17:41Z eivarv joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:17:57Z Grue``: and then tried to explain macros 2016-08-03T17:18:02Z oleo: lol 2016-08-03T17:18:06Z oleo: hahahhahaa 2016-08-03T17:18:21Z oleo: common-lisp is multi-paradigm anyway...... 2016-08-03T17:18:28Z axion: I've had a similar experience with the interviewer concluding I was too qualified 2016-08-03T17:19:00Z wccoder joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:19:06Z phoe: welp, I think I might go "what makes you think Lisp is functional?" and then start declaring the basics for metaobject protocol 2016-08-03T17:19:08Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:19:16Z phoe: would probably achieve the same goal. 2016-08-03T17:19:20Z oleo: heh 2016-08-03T17:20:09Z axion: So, no QL update for last month, heh 2016-08-03T17:21:19Z jasom: axion: my dad had a case where the recruiter intentionally moved his education to page 2 of the resume, and during the interview they discovered he had a PhD, and the interviewer says "We don't hire PhDs" and the interview was over. 2016-08-03T17:21:20Z mastokley joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:21:46Z Xach: axion: nope. hoped to do it last week. didn't happen. now the hope is this week. 2016-08-03T17:21:54Z Xach: axion: there is a problem with PROVE that is causing Problems, though. 2016-08-03T17:22:13Z Xach: it has been hard to get a clean slate going 2016-08-03T17:23:02Z axion: Xach: Ah, no worries. I had noticed a few weeks ago that one of my libraries with pushing to the wrong git remote, and had been out of sync with QL for at least 2-3 months. It caused me a wtf moment debugging a function 2016-08-03T17:23:10Z axion: s/with/was/ 2016-08-03T17:23:11Z jasom: Xach: thanks again for your work in curating it. It's so much nicer than completely untested package managers. 2016-08-03T17:23:34Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T17:24:08Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:24:22Z phoe: ...that you're able to pull a library out of and break thousands of client installations 2016-08-03T17:24:25Z phoe hint hint 2016-08-03T17:25:24Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:25:28Z phoe: but yes - absolutely what jasom said. 2016-08-03T17:26:42Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T17:27:12Z Xach: http://report.quicklisp.org/2016-08-03/failure-report.html :~( 2016-08-03T17:28:21Z axion: Ouch 2016-08-03T17:29:39Z phoe: Wait. 2016-08-03T17:29:41Z Xach: i need to get my repl-based issue reporter going 2016-08-03T17:29:43Z phoe: Did all of this just crash? 2016-08-03T17:29:57Z Xach: what's the "this"? 2016-08-03T17:29:57Z axion: Xach: The 5 failures I checked were due to 1 system missing in that dist 2016-08-03T17:30:28Z Xach: yeah, i think it's all (or almost all) from prove 2016-08-03T17:30:33Z phoe: This, as in, all of these failures. 2016-08-03T17:30:36Z axion: CL-COLORS 2016-08-03T17:30:45Z Xach: phoe: they no longer build due to a mistake in the prove library, i believe 2016-08-03T17:30:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T17:31:09Z phoe: Got it. Do you have any logs from this? 2016-08-03T17:31:30Z phoe: Oh yes, you do. 2016-08-03T17:31:40Z phoe: ...but PROVE fails because of no CL-COLORS. 2016-08-03T17:31:50Z axion: Yeah... 2016-08-03T17:32:07Z Xach: missed dependency 2016-08-03T17:32:54Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-08-03T17:33:22Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:36:42Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam) 2016-08-03T17:38:03Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:38:04Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-08-03T17:38:50Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-08-03T17:39:26Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:39:39Z nisstyre quit (Changing host) 2016-08-03T17:39:39Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:40:41Z maucar joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:42:03Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:42:41Z quasus joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:46:23Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T17:47:08Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:47:34Z warweasle quit (Quit: working) 2016-08-03T17:48:50Z schjetne joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:50:10Z mathrick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-08-03T17:51:37Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T17:54:49Z shka_ joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:55:41Z Josh2 joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:55:54Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:56:39Z sellout- joined #lisp 2016-08-03T17:58:12Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2016-08-03T18:00:12Z Josh2 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T18:00:15Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:00:32Z Josh2 joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:00:40Z pmc quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-08-03T18:02:47Z nalik joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:05:07Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:08:28Z bigfondue joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:09:25Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:11:46Z pierpa joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:13:47Z angavrilov quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:14:19Z IPmonger quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3 - http://znc.in) 2016-08-03T18:14:36Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:17:47Z dxtr quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:19:02Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:19:18Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:20:10Z xrash joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:21:20Z dxtr joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:22:14Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-08-03T18:22:19Z eivarv quit (Quit: Sleep) 2016-08-03T18:23:28Z nalik_ joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:23:29Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:25:28Z eivarv joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:26:34Z nalik quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:29:20Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:30:48Z Baggers joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:30:49Z zacharias joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:32:32Z IPmonger quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3 - http://znc.in) 2016-08-03T18:32:47Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:34:36Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:35:48Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:36:52Z eivarv quit (Quit: Sleep) 2016-08-03T18:40:11Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:41:48Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:42:22Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:42:50Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:46:01Z Baggers: evening all, I'm currently reading cffi's groveller and my question is why is the pattern of emitting C code that in turn emits lisp code used (over say emitting the data for cffi to use). My guess was that this way you dont need to write code to interpret the data as you can just load the resulting code as usual, but I might be missing something. Can anyone cast some light on this 2016-08-03T18:46:04Z Baggers: ? 2016-08-03T18:47:21Z Bike: by "emitting the data" you presumably mean having some file format that cffi would read and interpret into lisp data? 2016-08-03T18:48:24Z lnostdal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-08-03T18:48:42Z Baggers: Bike: yeah something with just the data it needed (names/sizes/constants/etc) 2016-08-03T18:49:40Z Bike: well, if it did that it would need some interpreter for the file format. if it emits lisp then that interpreter can just be cl:load 2016-08-03T18:50:07Z Bike: oh. you said that. wow, sorry. 2016-08-03T18:50:14Z Baggers: heh no worries :) 2016-08-03T18:50:38Z Bike: having another format would allow you to do more editing introspectiony stuff on it, but i don't think anybody really needs that 2016-08-03T18:50:53Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:51:53Z Baggers: Cool, my reason for asking is that it's so easy for lisp to generate lisp from data that I expected as little done in C as possible. Your answer makes total sense though. 2016-08-03T18:51:54Z Baggers: thanks 2016-08-03T18:52:40Z phoe: Lisp's pretty awesome at generating Lisp-readable data. 2016-08-03T18:53:30Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-08-03T18:54:35Z Bike: well, as far as i remember the C code it's along the lines of printf("(defvar %s %d)"...) so not so bad 2016-08-03T18:54:52Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:55:43Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:56:03Z axion: What is the proper way to wrap long lambda lists with lots of &key arguments? 2016-08-03T18:56:16Z phoe: axion: show me an example 2016-08-03T18:56:48Z Bike: axion: what do you mean wrap? like, indent? 2016-08-03T18:56:55Z axion: http://paste.lisp.org/display/322115 2016-08-03T18:56:57Z axion: yes 2016-08-03T18:57:04Z axion: I'm trying to adhere to 80 columns 2016-08-03T18:57:53Z phoe: the readable way is the proper way I guess 2016-08-03T18:58:11Z Bike: i think put the &key on a new line and let slime do the rest 2016-08-03T18:58:21Z axion: No way emacs will do it is truly readable though 2016-08-03T18:58:32Z abbe quit (Quit: “Everytime that we are together, it's always estatically palpitating!”) 2016-08-03T18:58:44Z abbe joined #lisp 2016-08-03T18:59:58Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-08-03T19:00:46Z axion: I annotated it with 2 solutions I think are readable. Not sure what the preferred way is 2016-08-03T19:01:28Z ggole quit 2016-08-03T19:02:38Z Baggers: axion: I added my preferred 2016-08-03T19:02:54Z Baggers: well the best emacs/slime will give me 2016-08-03T19:04:54Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:05:52Z axion: That is exactly what I do not like 2016-08-03T19:05:54Z cmos joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:06:27Z cmos quit (Client Quit) 2016-08-03T19:08:37Z Petit_Dejeuner: I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here. Is this a file permissions issue? Just trying to open a file on my Desktop and save to it on windows. http://pastie.org/private/mf9kkyj0owc1fol2db7ig 2016-08-03T19:09:45Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-08-03T19:10:29Z phoe: Petit_Dejeuner: what is the path you're trying to save it to? 2016-08-03T19:10:34Z Baggers: Petit_Dejeuner: that looks like a windows hardlink related error 2016-08-03T19:10:47Z wccoder quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T19:10:57Z phoe: Oh. Right, that. 2016-08-03T19:11:35Z Baggers: http://superuser.com/questions/243410/windows7-hardlink-over-two-different-drives 2016-08-03T19:12:07Z Baggers: is the a vm or something? 2016-08-03T19:12:17Z eSVG joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:12:34Z Baggers: well that sentence was missing some words.. 2016-08-03T19:13:11Z Baggers: I meant is this file on the host of a vm (and windows is the client?) 2016-08-03T19:14:06Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:20:42Z eivarv joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:22:05Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:26:54Z Petit_Dejeuner: phoe: It's in the argument to open "a.txt". It should just save the file locally. 2016-08-03T19:27:09Z Petit_Dejeuner: Baggers: No VM. Just native Windows 8 and SBCL. 2016-08-03T19:27:33Z Petit_Dejeuner: Running through SLIME. 2016-08-03T19:28:07Z phoe: Very weird. 2016-08-03T19:29:36Z phoe: I have no idea. Google will be smarter than me in this case. 2016-08-03T19:30:56Z Baggers: Petit_Dejeuner: Just more wild guesses here but what drive is sbcl on? 2016-08-03T19:31:02Z paul0 joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:31:10Z nalik_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-08-03T19:31:38Z wccoder joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:31:56Z Petit_Dejeuner: Baggers: The wird thing is there's ONLY one drive. (Ignoring the ones for removeable media) 2016-08-03T19:31:58Z Petit_Dejeuner: weird* 2016-08-03T19:32:14Z Baggers: :| well then I'm lost 2016-08-03T19:32:52Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-08-03T19:34:56Z Griff`Ron joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:35:46Z Baggers: Petit_Dejeuner: hmm those are forward slashes in your path 2016-08-03T19:35:55Z Baggers: is that a lisp pathname thing? 2016-08-03T19:36:32Z Grue`: Petit_Dejeuner: could any symlinks be involved? 2016-08-03T19:36:56Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T19:37:05Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:37:09Z Baggers: could try (open "c:\Users\andrew\Desktop\hpcraft\a.txt" :direction :output) and see what it says 2016-08-03T19:37:10Z xrash joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:37:19Z Grue`: Baggers: that obviously won't work 2016-08-03T19:37:31Z Grue`: because of backslash escaping 2016-08-03T19:37:48Z Baggers: I wasnt sure how lisp's pathnames handle that on windows 2016-08-03T19:38:10Z Baggers: sorry, dont normally code on windows 2016-08-03T19:38:30Z Grue`: I was talking about Lisp string escaping 2016-08-03T19:39:10Z Baggers: good point. now I feel dumb 2016-08-03T19:39:32Z Grue`: I think SBCL can handle both back and forward slashes 2016-08-03T19:40:18Z Grue`: (list (probe-file "c:/users") (probe-file "c:\\users")) => (#P"c:/Users/" #P"c:/Users/") 2016-08-03T19:40:28Z Petit_Dejeuner: It works, but it opens file "UsersandrewDesktophpcrafta.txt" because of the backslash escapes. With double backslashes, I get the original error. 2016-08-03T19:41:42Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-08-03T19:41:45Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T19:43:33Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-08-03T19:43:51Z nalik_ joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:45:36Z schjetne joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:46:21Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:46:24Z jasom: Grue`: windows can handle forward slashes in most of its OS interfaces 2016-08-03T19:47:11Z jasom: Petit_Dejeuner: the move system call won't move between drives on windows 2016-08-03T19:47:41Z jasom: Petit_Dejeuner: if your temporary directory is on a different drive and you use one of the :if-exists options (don't remember which one) that causes this 2016-08-03T19:49:04Z jasom: Petit_Dejeuner: try passing :if-exists :supersede 2016-08-03T19:49:31Z Petit_Dejeuner: Yeah, that fixed it. 2016-08-03T19:49:35Z Petit_Dejeuner: Thanks. 2016-08-03T19:49:40Z Petit_Dejeuner: There aren't any other drives though. :/ 2016-08-03T19:50:11Z seg joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:50:49Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T19:50:59Z jasom wishes he didn't have this information in his brain; haven't run lisp on windows in ~6 years 2016-08-03T19:51:22Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:51:36Z puchacz joined #lisp 2016-08-03T19:52:32Z Petit_Dejeuner: There's a bit of legacy COM in all of us. 2016-08-03T19:53:51Z jasom: Petit_Dejeuner: what version of sbcl? 2016-08-03T19:54:17Z Petit_Dejeuner: 1.2.14 2016-08-03T19:54:54Z Petit_Dejeuner: So fairly outdated. 2016-08-03T19:55:00Z jasom: Looks like this was fixed at least by 1.3.6 2016-08-03T19:55:32Z Petit_Dejeuner: I guess it's time to upgrade. 2016-08-03T19:55:52Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T19:57:57Z varjag joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:00:07Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:02:26Z Griff`Ron quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-08-03T20:04:52Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-08-03T20:08:38Z maucar quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-08-03T20:09:20Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:09:25Z grimsley joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:13:32Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-08-03T20:14:23Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:17:57Z eivarv quit (Quit: Sleep) 2016-08-03T20:21:54Z mastokley quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T20:22:29Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-08-03T20:23:44Z gargaml joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:24:27Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-08-03T20:26:33Z wccoder quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T20:27:43Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:29:30Z mastokley joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:29:37Z dlowe: note that supersede has unexpected behavior if there's a signaled condition 2016-08-03T20:29:42Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-08-03T20:29:47Z dlowe: (at least, unexpected if you didn't carefully read the documentation) 2016-08-03T20:30:16Z nalik__ joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:32:18Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-08-03T20:32:58Z m00natic joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:33:28Z nalik_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-08-03T20:33:35Z wccoder joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:33:46Z nalik_ joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:33:53Z Josh2 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-08-03T20:34:16Z m00natic left #lisp 2016-08-03T20:34:23Z m00natic joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:34:43Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2016-08-03T20:35:16Z Josh2 joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:36:54Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-08-03T20:37:39Z nalik__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-08-03T20:38:39Z jerme quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - 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