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2016-06-14T01:30:30Z leo_song: What is the most effecient way of loading a whole big file (5Gb) into memory for array operation access by **BYTE** in Common Lisp? (I'm using SBCL with a 8Gb RAM computer running Linux)
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2016-06-14T01:45:52Z Beeps: What is the best way to compare CLOS objects?
2016-06-14T01:46:27Z Bike: Beeps: compare how?
2016-06-14T01:47:20Z Beeps: Like, is there a generic equal function that I can define a method for
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2016-06-14T01:47:34Z Bike: there is not. usually that kind of thing is too application-specific.
2016-06-14T01:47:36Z Beeps: or is there something automatically  defined
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2016-06-14T01:48:13Z Bike: leo_song: make a byte array, open the file with a byte element type, read-sequence it in? I don't think sbcl has mmapped files or anything.
2016-06-14T01:51:09Z PuercoPop: CCL does in case SBCL is not a hard requirement
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2016-06-14T02:02:59Z leo_song: Bike: Currently, i'm using this method for loading file
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2016-06-14T02:14:36Z Bike: not good enough, eh.
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2016-06-14T02:38:55Z emaczen: How do HTTPS requests work with drakma?
2016-06-14T02:40:28Z Xach: emaczen: via cl+ssl or native https (on lispworks)
2016-06-14T02:40:54Z Xach: lispworks uses openssl, i think.
2016-06-14T02:41:01Z emaczen: Xach: I'm using CCL
2016-06-14T02:41:09Z Xach: emaczen: then it does whatever cl+ssl does.
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2016-06-14T02:44:19Z emaczen: Ok, I'm having difficulties with drakma:http-request -- it just says "bad request"
2016-06-14T02:44:43Z Xach: emaczen: that can happen for many reasons.
2016-06-14T02:45:05Z Xach: emaczen: when it happens to me, sometimes i try to make the request to a local port instead of remote and dump it out to look at it.
2016-06-14T02:45:36Z Xach: emaczen: sometimes the trouble is obvious bad HTTP, and sometimes the request problem is because of syntax issues in what the server expects in the body, which is trickier.
2016-06-14T02:46:05Z emaczen: I'm passing a string to the :content parameter
2016-06-14T02:46:27Z Xach: that isn't a bad thing to do, necessarily.
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2016-06-14T02:51:24Z emaczen: Xach: Is there a way to make it return a string instead of an array of integers?
2016-06-14T02:52:14Z Xach: emaczen: yes, but i don't remember. i just convert with octets-to-string instead of trying to get drakma to do it internally.
2016-06-14T02:53:05Z emaczen: Xach: What is "octets-to-string"?
2016-06-14T02:53:19Z Xach: emaczen: it is a function that is part of ccl, and also in a library called babel
2016-06-14T02:53:36Z Xach: it interprets integers as an encoded string and returns that string
2016-06-14T02:53:52Z emaczen: Ok cool
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2016-06-14T04:00:46Z fiddlerwoaroof: emaczen: also, you can add to drakma:*text-content-types* to change which mimetypes it interprets as text
2016-06-14T04:03:00Z fiddlerwoaroof: something like (let ((*text-content-types* (acons "application" "json" *text-content-types*))) (http-request "http://somewhere.com/something.json"))
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2016-06-14T04:46:20Z emaczen: after overriding initialize-instance -- it appears that a shared-initialize :after method is not being called Is this normal? Do I need to do something in my new overriden method?
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2016-06-14T04:52:47Z Bike: i don't believe so.
2016-06-14T04:53:39Z emaczen: So it will call an intitialize-instance :after method, but it doesn't appear to call the shared-initialize :afer method
2016-06-14T04:54:25Z jasom: emaczen: "The system-supplied primary method on initialize-instance initializes the slots of the instance with values according to the initargs and the :initform forms of the slots. It does this by calling the generic function shared-initialize with the following arguments: the instance, t (this indicates that all slots for which no initialization arguments are provided should be initialized according to their
2016-06-14T04:54:27Z jasom: :initform forms), and the initargs."
2016-06-14T04:54:31Z Bike: I think that's strange. What's your shared-initialize :after method look like?
2016-06-14T04:54:43Z jasom: if you don't use the system-supplied primary method, nobody ever calls shared-initialize
2016-06-14T04:54:44Z Bike: assuming jasom didn't just enlighten the problem
2016-06-14T04:55:07Z Bike: oh. shit, i got confused, sorry.
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2016-06-14T04:56:01Z jasom: your new overriden method needs to manually call shared-initialize if you want it to be called at all.
2016-06-14T04:56:42Z emaczen: jasom: Thanks, that works
2016-06-14T04:57:08Z jasom: emaczen: depending on what you're donig you may want to override shared-initialize rather than initialize-instance
2016-06-14T04:57:47Z jasom: shared-intialized gets called any time slots may need to be initialized, initialize-instance is only called from make-instance
2016-06-14T04:57:51Z emaczen: jasom: I've used shared-initialize for change-class and reinitialize-instance -- is that all it is good for?
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2016-06-14T04:58:38Z jasom: emaczen: right, those two (plus initialize-instance) are the times when slots may need to be initialized
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2016-06-14T04:58:55Z jasom: also when you redefine a class
2016-06-14T04:59:33Z jasom: initialize-instance, reinitialize-instance, update-instance-for-redefined-class, update-instance-for-different-class <-- basically those all hook into shared-initialize
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2016-06-14T05:00:09Z jasom: and if you want shared-initialize to be called, perhaps you should be using an :around method for initialize-instance, since it doesn't do a whole lot other than call shared-initialize
2016-06-14T05:00:58Z emaczen: jasom: I'm getting specific behavior for specific types in my hierarchy
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2016-06-14T05:04:48Z jasom: actually you don't even need to do an :around, just do a call-next-method from your override
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2016-06-14T05:05:46Z emaczen: I think the next method would be another override that is specific for that type
2016-06-14T05:05:51Z emaczen: and not subtypes
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2016-06-14T05:18:22Z jasom: ah
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2016-06-14T06:15:16Z fourier: is where a way to effectively manipulate views of vectors ? like having a vector of bytes and position from which I want to parse it, to get the subsequence of it without creating a new array in memory (subseq does it AFAIK)
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2016-06-14T06:26:27Z jasom: fourier: you may want to look at fast-io; I've done it manually in the past though
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2016-06-14T06:27:46Z fourier: jasom: thanks will look at it
2016-06-14T06:28:44Z lieven: fourier: displaced arrays
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2016-06-14T06:32:45Z Grue`: subseq doesn't do it, it always creates a copy
2016-06-14T06:32:58Z Grue`: displaced arrays is the only way
2016-06-14T06:34:53Z jasom: the only issue with displaced arrays is that lots of libraries expect simple-arrays
2016-06-14T06:35:12Z jasom: but if you aren't using any of those, then they work great.
2016-06-14T06:36:18Z fourier: I'm using babel
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2016-06-14T06:36:49Z fourier: but however babel knows how to work with indicies (start/end), so maybe it is not needed...
2016-06-14T06:37:15Z lieven: all this is probably premature optimisation anyways
2016-06-14T06:38:06Z fourier: lieven: if you can do right from the beginning, why to do it wrong ? :)
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2016-06-14T06:42:30Z lieven: I actually had this problem once. parsing and dealing with O(gigabytes) of apache style logs a day. My first version just parsed with a bunch of (subseq ...) as result and then funcalled a function with them as arguments. I thought it would be too slow and too consy for production but I did it as a PoC. Turned out the generational GC coped just fine with it.
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2016-06-14T06:44:31Z jasom: sbcl is very efficient with short-lived garbage.  In general one copy never hurts you, but if you have 6 layers of abstraction and each one copies, it's not just one copy anymore.
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2016-06-14T06:45:51Z lieven: this was done with Lispworks but the general principle applies
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2016-06-14T07:16:44Z jasom: jackdaniel: I think you wanted to know when my geany plugin was in version control somewhere? https://phab.jasom.org/diffusion/GL/
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2016-06-14T07:25:35Z jackdaniel: jasom: yes, thanks!
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2016-06-14T07:39:25Z knobo: How do I check if a  symbol is in a package?
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2016-06-14T07:39:46Z knobo: find-symbol
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2016-06-14T07:42:57Z jasom: jackdaniel: if you want to actually make changes to it, I suggest you install tup, which is the build system it uses.  It falls back on a generated shell script otherwise for building.
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2016-06-14T07:44:40Z jackdaniel: OK (I probably won't find a time anytime soon though :)
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2016-06-14T07:47:07Z jasom: yeah, I didn't expect it, but wanted to warn you, since it's not commonly used.  If it weren't OT I would gush about how much better than make it is.
2016-06-14T07:47:50Z jackdaniel: heh
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2016-06-14T09:54:33Z smokeink: Is it possible in Postmodern to specify checks inside the dao object's defclass? or do i have to write manual sql queries like here
2016-06-14T09:54:35Z smokeink:                   https://github.com/jd/kawoosh/blob/5006dd38e75db2692717bafe6ec9447c6dfd2a55/dao.lisp#L328
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2016-06-14T09:59:04Z jdz: smokeink: that looks like a DB level check, and no amount of DAO magic will provide you with that
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2016-06-14T10:00:03Z smokeink: how about deftable ?
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2016-06-14T10:03:00Z jdz: what about it?
2016-06-14T10:03:13Z jdz: (i have no idea what that is, sorry)
2016-06-14T10:03:58Z smokeink: i mean, if i can specify uniqueness constraints and foreign keys using deftable along with def-dao, why shouldn't we also be able to specify other constraints ?
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2016-06-14T10:07:12Z smokeink: http://pastecode.ru/45b596/
2016-06-14T10:07:16Z Grue`: postmodern doesn't support all features of postgres, with any luck you might be able to extend it's functionality though
2016-06-14T10:07:58Z smokeink: yes, that's what i was about to do, but i was not sure wether this is the right way to go or not
2016-06-14T10:09:27Z smokeink: in the above snippet , that ':check' line is useless, postmodern hasn't implemented that functionality. And it made sense to me that it should have this functionality, otherwise how can you define a table that has constrains? the only way is by writing raw postgresql, then what's the point in using postmodern?
2016-06-14T10:10:09Z smokeink: *constraints
2016-06-14T10:10:09Z jdz: smokeink: you can actually access the DB?
2016-06-14T10:10:25Z jdz: ORMs are a wast of time most of the time, anyway
2016-06-14T10:10:41Z jdz: fun for toying around
2016-06-14T10:11:21Z Grue`: compilers are waste of time too, we should just write everything in assembly
2016-06-14T10:11:24Z jdz: which is to say -- they're good for simple scenarios to get something working quickly
2016-06-14T10:11:37Z jdz: but beyond that they only get in one's way
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2016-06-14T10:12:58Z Zhivago: You can experience the feeling of having done something difficult without the difficulty of having found something worthwhile to do.
2016-06-14T10:13:59Z jdz: Grue`: really?  i'd be curious for you to provide me how a query involving "WITH RECURSIVE" and window functions will look like in your dream ORM
2016-06-14T10:15:12Z Grue`: (query "insert raw sql here" &rest args)
2016-06-14T10:15:42Z Grue`: using orm doesn't stop you from using raw queries when they're needed
2016-06-14T10:16:20Z jdz: and yes, most of the time people don't want results from a single table, and all columns too
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2016-06-14T10:21:56Z smokeink: so does this mean that postmodern hasn't been used for complex projects?
2016-06-14T10:23:25Z jdz: it's not about postmodern, but ORMs in general
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2016-06-14T10:28:25Z _death: postmodern is not an ORM..
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2016-06-14T10:32:12Z jdz: it's not _just_ ORM
2016-06-14T10:32:37Z _death: it provides a DAO interface, but an ORM is much more complex than that
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2016-06-14T10:44:40Z smokeink: i think i'll just get rid of all dao classes and use raw queries to create the tables
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2016-06-14T11:06:40Z Grue``: every sufficiently complex project contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of ORM
2016-06-14T11:07:56Z _death: simply false
2016-06-14T11:08:50Z _death: but logically I suppose it makes sense, since you get to define "sufficiency" ;)
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2016-06-14T11:18:13Z igam: Well, it just shows that relational DB are as practical as purely functional programming.
2016-06-14T11:18:24Z schjetne: I've been meaning to try bypassing the ORM and RDBMS entirely and give one of the persistence libraries a try instead
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2016-06-14T11:18:52Z schjetne: A friend of mine went the opposite way and went and wrote all the business logic in SQL instead
2016-06-14T11:19:07Z igam: Of course, you can do that too.
2016-06-14T11:19:19Z igam: And with postgresql, you can even have lisp inside the DB for stored procedures…
2016-06-14T11:24:22Z schjetne: Has anyone used BKNR for a project? It seems like the most stable free option. I know there's AllegroCache, but I'd rather avoid the vendor lock-in.
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2016-06-14T12:13:37Z Xach: schjetne: H4ns used it a long time ago
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2016-06-14T12:15:25Z schjetne: Xach: He appears to be the maintainer, even.
2016-06-14T12:15:41Z Xach saw him give a talk on it at a boston lisp meeting
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2016-06-14T12:56:57Z kdridi: hi there! I'm looking for a website similar to codewars.com but which propose common lisp as programming language, any clues? ;-)
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2016-06-14T13:03:06Z Grauwolf: kdridi: codewars.com is on github so common lisp support could be added. but i know of no comparable project with common lisp. https://github.com/Codewars/codewars-runner-cli
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2016-06-14T13:04:30Z kdridi: Grauwolf, thanks for the info!
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2016-06-14T13:17:24Z reepca`: I'm sad. Let over Lambda is supposed to arrive today, but it's looking like I won't be a wake enough to read it today and will be busy until tomorrow ;(
2016-06-14T13:20:24Z jdz: the good thing about books is that you can read them whenever...
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2016-06-14T13:28:19Z reepca`: but I'm impatient
2016-06-14T13:28:51Z reepca`: the author tricksily saved the chapters that interest me most for last
2016-06-14T13:29:00Z reepca`: anyway, bye for now
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2016-06-14T15:15:24Z Xach: warweasle: what's up with squirl?
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2016-06-14T15:26:46Z warweasle: Xach: Hi. I have a repo for it. I don't know if lispgames wants to use theirs instead.
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2016-06-14T15:27:26Z Xach: warweasle: what about adding :description to the system file?
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2016-06-14T15:28:09Z warweasle: Xach: Oh, I can do that tonight.
2016-06-14T15:28:20Z Xach: whee
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2016-06-14T15:49:51Z therik: hello
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2016-06-14T15:52:35Z therik: i'm writing a small game, server side is in nodejs because I took an existing app and changed the inside. Now I'm running into performance issues and all the single-threaded problems of JS. Since I'm half-familiar with cl, I was thinking of writing the actual game loop as separate process in CL and connect to it from nodejs. I just can't find a fast and reliable way to make CL and nodejs talk together. Is there any QL project that would he
2016-06-14T15:52:35Z therik: lp smooth it out, so I don't need to write my own server?
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2016-06-14T15:53:34Z pecan: therik: I think I'd connect over TCP loopback or named pipes. That seems much easier and more reliable than some sort of nodejs extension.
2016-06-14T15:55:18Z pecan: Or better yet, domain sockets if you don't care about non-*nix portability.
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2016-06-14T15:55:31Z therik: I don't care about no-nix
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2016-06-14T15:56:37Z therik: pecan: i'm rather thinking of CL extension that would help with this. Either something that would setup server sockets and handle evens SSL/reconnect, etc
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2016-06-14T15:57:26Z pecan: Are CL and nodejs running on the same machine?
2016-06-14T15:57:37Z therik: for now, yea
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2016-06-14T15:58:45Z therik: for future, I don't really care. If I'm at point where I need more machines, I can afford spending some more time... I'm now in the startup hype phase, so I just want to make it work
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2016-06-14T15:59:39Z pecan: If you're OK with HTTP, Woo https://github.com/fukamachi/woo is pretty nice. I'm trying to find something like Python's Twisted but haven't yet.
2016-06-14T15:59:54Z akkad ponders why edi avoids iolib in his book
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2016-06-14T16:01:23Z pecan: therik: To be honest, Erlang may be much more suited to your task if you're familiar with it at all.
2016-06-14T16:02:40Z therik: pecan: not at all
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2016-06-14T16:04:26Z pecan: therik: The best I can find is http://www.thangorodrim.de/software/lisp-network-server/index.html which appears to not be maintained but should be a decent starting point.
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2016-06-14T16:07:48Z therik: hm, i'm getting errors in static-vectors
2016-06-14T16:08:01Z therik: pecan: I'll try woo, they claim it's fast, i think that might be great option
2016-06-14T16:08:12Z akkad: what is the recommended portable library for stat(2) like file operations?
2016-06-14T16:10:58Z pecan: therik: I've had good experiences with it. Fukamachi is sort of the Common Lisp web-related-things guru.
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2016-06-14T16:23:54Z therik: hmm, cffi_0.17.1 doesn't compile
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2016-06-14T16:30:53Z jasom: therik: there are bindings for json and protobufs either of which should work for serializing data from node
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2016-06-14T16:31:31Z jasom: pecan: what features of twisted do you like?
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2016-06-14T16:32:43Z pecan: jasom: The part where making a simple custom network protocol is really easy.
2016-06-14T16:32:55Z jasom: pecan: got it
2016-06-14T16:33:53Z pecan: These days I'd use Erlang for the same thing, but I recall Twisted being very simple for simple things and relatively easy for hard things.
2016-06-14T16:34:03Z jasom: pecan: I actually had something half-finished like that; I'll see if I can make it a bit more user friendly
2016-06-14T16:34:33Z pecan: That'd be cool.
2016-06-14T16:35:04Z jasom: I was just playing around with basic-binary-ipc and realized I accidentally wrote 50% of a server framework.
2016-06-14T16:35:10Z pecan: haha
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2016-06-14T16:39:16Z jasom: basic-binary-ipc did all the heavy lifting; here's what I did: 136  420 4359 ipc-serve.lisp
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2016-06-14T16:43:56Z jasom: it isn't quite the same as twisted; the server itself is fully evented but it performs the callbacks inside worker threads so that the callbacks can be long-running.
2016-06-14T16:43:57Z therik: yupii, woo compiled
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2016-06-14T17:36:15Z jasom: so, I need a name for my mongrel2 library for common lisp.  cl-mongrel2 and m2cl are already taken.
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2016-06-14T17:37:34Z therik: is there any documentation for woo?
2016-06-14T17:37:48Z jasom: therik: it's on the todo list I think
2016-06-14T17:38:29Z jasom: therik: I would recommend using clack, as that's better documented and can use woo as a backend
2016-06-14T17:40:52Z therik: jasom, clack doesn't seem to pass domain socket to woo
2016-06-14T17:41:12Z jasom didn't even know woo could do domain sockets
2016-06-14T17:41:24Z sigjuice: xach
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2016-06-14T17:46:41Z fourier: is where any zlib library with streaming unpack ? like I would like to unpack first 32 bytes, then next N bytes
2016-06-14T17:47:12Z jasom: therik: well it's pretty close to clack in how it works.  you get a plist with information about the request and you return a list of the form (status-cod headers &optional body)
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2016-06-14T17:47:34Z fourier: zlib from ql only unpacks everything into the vector at ones. hu.dwim.util/zlib I couldn't find any documentation
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2016-06-14T17:48:38Z jasom: and headers is a plist of headers as keywords e.g. (:content-type "foo" ...)
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2016-06-14T17:51:59Z therik: jasom, how did you print it?
2016-06-14T17:52:14Z therik: jasom, when I run the example it freezes my slime
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2016-06-14T17:54:49Z therik: I can't find a way to get to it, but I know it works, since my nodejs app that connects to it doesn't complain... and woo even returns error when I do malformed http request on it, but that's about as far as I got..
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2016-06-14T17:57:46Z therik: jasom: if I put (lambda (env) (print env) '(200 .....)), the print doesn't print anything, only thing I get is an error about nonexistent HTTP function if I write "blahblah" into that socket. Did you get it running?
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2016-06-14T18:08:52Z therik: jasom: did you say anything? I dropped about 10 minutes ago
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2016-06-14T18:11:38Z jasom: therik: sorry, I was afk
2016-06-14T18:12:42Z jasom: therik: check the *inferior-lisp* buffer
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2016-06-14T18:13:59Z jasom: therik: or even better do a (let ((swank:*globally-redirect-io*)) (woo:run ...))
2016-06-14T18:14:36Z jasom: by default, slime only captures output for the thread that the REPL is running in, and woo uses other threads, so those don't get captured
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2016-06-14T18:17:32Z jasom: (let ((swank::*globally-redirect-io* (woo:run (lambda (env) (print env) '(200 (:content-type "text/plain") nil)))))) ; <-- should work
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2016-06-14T18:19:20Z Xach: sigjuice: was ist los?
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2016-06-14T18:23:22Z peey: Reading the page on Practical Common Lisp about conditions and restarts, one of the examples says (defun skip-log-entry (c)   (invoke-restart 'skip-log-entry)). Does this mean that the same symbol "skip-log-entry" is bound to two things - a function, and a restart?
2016-06-14T18:23:32Z luis: peey: yes.
2016-06-14T18:24:17Z peey: luis: How is one symbol bound to multiple values? I fail to understand
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2016-06-14T18:24:27Z Xach: I think of "bound" as having a more specific meaning that works only on variables and functions. I think of that as more of using the same symbol to name more than one thing.
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2016-06-14T18:24:42Z Xach: It names a restart, a function, and can name any number of other things.
2016-06-14T18:25:12Z Xach: peey: It's a little like how the word "ford" can refer to a car or a stream crossing...
2016-06-14T18:25:29Z peey: So does that mean that the restart system and the function system have their own private hash tables (or something of the sort) and they look up the appropriate value when each is invoked?
2016-06-14T18:25:39Z Bike: something like that
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2016-06-14T18:25:42Z peey: This in contrast to like how global variables work in other languages?
2016-06-14T18:25:43Z jasom: peey: something like that, yes
2016-06-14T18:25:54Z luis: Xach: that's a good point, although we have RESTART-BIND, for instance.
2016-06-14T18:26:40Z peey: Is this the same reason why common lisp can have same symbol for value and a function?
2016-06-14T18:26:43Z Xach: luis: ah, that wasn't on my mind. good example.
2016-06-14T18:26:55Z jasom: peey: consider the code: "(foo)" it is unambiguous when evaluating this that we need to look up the function named by foo;  similarly (+ foo 2) it is unambiguous we need to look up the value named by foo &ct.
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2016-06-14T18:26:58Z peey: A "lisp-2"
2016-06-14T18:27:01Z Xach: peey: it's more like that CL has easy access to first-class names.
2016-06-14T18:27:04Z Bike: like, with "ford" you know which meaning it is based on context. invoke-restart is obviously going to be a restart context, while in an evaluated form like (skip-log-entry ...) it's a function.
2016-06-14T18:27:28Z peey: I think I got it. Thanks!
2016-06-14T18:27:33Z jasom: peey: and this is why lots of people say it's really a Lisp-N
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2016-06-14T18:29:32Z _death: jasom: in the latter it may be a symbol macro..
2016-06-14T18:30:00Z therik: jasom: I see where the problem is, it works with normal server, but doesn't work with domain socket
2016-06-14T18:30:20Z therik: if I add :listen "/tmp/socket" it doesn't print anything
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2016-06-14T18:49:16Z luis: Xach: whoops, there was silly bug in that gist I sent you via slime-devel. Make sure you get revision #3. :)
2016-06-14T18:51:26Z _death: annoying, slime doesn't highlight parens correctly in the presentation of the value resulting from evaluating '((<))
2016-06-14T18:51:28Z Xach: luis: Hmm, i was wrong about M-., though I could have sworn it hung on me earlier
2016-06-14T18:51:44Z Xach: luis: but autodoc definitely doesn't work for me when slime-repl is in a custom repl loop
2016-06-14T18:51:44Z luis: Xach: it hung for me in my test.
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2016-06-14T18:51:54Z Xach: luis: really? hmm.
2016-06-14T18:53:38Z luis: Xach: well, this hack I sent you should get autodoc and M-. working.
2016-06-14T18:55:16Z Xach: luis: it does for me!
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2016-06-14T18:56:23Z luis: Now you have to convince me this is a good idea in general. :-)
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2016-06-14T18:56:58Z Xach: I'm not sure how best to do that, but it would help me a lot. I'm working on a little repl specifically for churning through github issues.
2016-06-14T18:57:00Z luis: Maybe you could use it for a while to see if it has any unintended consequences?
2016-06-14T18:57:08Z Xach: I'll give it a shot, thanks
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2016-06-14T18:57:52Z Xach: The repl I made will show me each issue in turn, and i can mark them as completed, or open them, or close them, or label them, or go forward or back, etc. and it has bare-symbol commands and a lot of context so I don't have to type as much. Or leave the repl to browse github.
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2016-06-14T18:58:24Z Xach: So I might do: show, guess-git, add, mark-canbuild, next, next, etc.
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2016-06-14T18:58:43Z Xach: it's dumber than slime but very specific to what i do a lot.
2016-06-14T18:59:15Z luis: Xach: sounds neat! It might be awesome with clim repl, minus the whole clim part. ;-)
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2016-06-14T19:02:03Z fourier: Xach: I've reported an issue #132 to quickclient. The problem is when I do system-apropos, I would like to have a possibility to get the url etc of the package. Right now when I type 'ql:system-apropos "xml"' I have to google package by package to find out their apis and sources. Is there any plans to implement this?
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2016-06-14T19:06:58Z XachX_: fourier: I want to do it.
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2016-06-14T19:14:49Z Xach: fourier: i want to gather and publish enough info so anyone can get exactly what quicklisp got
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2016-06-14T19:18:17Z sumosudo: evening. morning. I cant this out.. The navv macro is being evaluated before hitting the standard page.. http://pasteboard.co/1GqQyB0i.png
2016-06-14T19:18:27Z sumosudo: cant figure
2016-06-14T19:19:38Z Xach: sumosudo: could you paste it as text to paste.lisp.org? it is hard to search for text of a picture.
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2016-06-14T19:22:59Z sumosudo: 318376
2016-06-14T19:23:36Z sumosudo: http://paste.lisp.org/display/318376
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2016-06-14T19:26:23Z fiddlerwoaroof: therik: you could also port the javascript portions to cl-js :)
2016-06-14T19:26:48Z fiddlerwoaroof: http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/cl-javascript/
2016-06-14T19:27:12Z Xach: sumosudo: the short, not-so-useful answer is "that's not how the cl-who evaluation rules work"
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2016-06-14T19:27:25Z Xach: sumosudo: you can't have a macro that expands into cl-who syntax - it just doesn't get evaluated that way
2016-06-14T19:27:31Z sumosudo: so essentially, the :div , :ul and so forth in the navv macro should just be fitted into the standard page macro, except it isn't being evaluated as a cl-who output string, getting undefined function in repl
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2016-06-14T19:28:00Z Xach: sumosudo: i like cl-who, but this problem crops up for pretty much anyone who tries to use it, and i don't think there's a short answer of "here's how to do exactly what you want in a supported way"
2016-06-14T19:28:30Z fiddlerwoaroof: sumosudo: you might look at https://github.com/ruricolist/spinneret
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2016-06-14T19:28:40Z Xach: sumosudo: one option is to make nav a function that writes to the output stream instead.
2016-06-14T19:28:45Z sumosudo: ok. can I call the with-html-output-to-string twice on one handler??
2016-06-14T19:28:46Z fiddlerwoaroof: It has a deftag macro that sortof does what you want.
2016-06-14T19:28:51Z Xach: sumosudo: sure.
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2016-06-14T19:31:06Z edgar-rft: sumosudo: First you define a macro navv with two vv but in the standard-page macro you call (nav) with one v. Maybe that's the problem?
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2016-06-14T19:32:05Z fiddlerwoaroof: edgar-rft: I think the problem is the order of evaluation: macros expand in the opposite order of functions and, so, it's hard to nest them.
2016-06-14T19:32:38Z sumosudo: ok. so changed call name.. no jazz.
2016-06-14T19:32:50Z sumosudo: called the hts macro on the navv macro. no jazz
2016-06-14T19:33:18Z sumosudo: going to try the function to stream..
2016-06-14T19:33:26Z fiddlerwoaroof: if you change ,@body to ,@(mapcar #'macroexpand body) it might work...
2016-06-14T19:33:40Z fiddlerwoaroof: (in hts)
2016-06-14T19:33:42Z Xach: It is better to read http://weitz.de/cl-who/#syntax and internalize it.
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2016-06-14T19:37:45Z Grue`: insertable html snippets in cl-who can be done like (defun insert-something ()(with-html-output (*standard-output*) ...))
2016-06-14T19:38:10Z Grue`: and then in the outer macro you just put (insert-something)
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2016-06-14T19:43:11Z fourier: Xach: cool thanks, this is what really really good to have for comfort work withql..
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2016-06-14T19:43:24Z sumosudo: Grue` thank you!
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2016-06-14T19:43:43Z sumosudo: its all working now..
2016-06-14T19:44:29Z sumosudo: would with-html-output take the :prologue t  for html5??
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2016-06-14T19:46:52Z Grue`: no, you don't need prologue since it's inner html
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2016-06-14T19:47:38Z sumosudo: I see, so its "cascading" in a sense
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2016-06-14T19:48:53Z therik: jasom: thanks a lot, you helped me get on track :)
2016-06-14T19:49:17Z therik: I made it work to the point where I'm sending and receiving.
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2016-06-14T19:58:32Z sumosudo: fiddlerwoaroof , the composability, that's it! I'm giving snipperet a spin for sure
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2016-06-14T20:03:01Z _death: also check out yaclml.. it solves the composability issue as well
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2016-06-14T20:08:09Z fiddlerwoaroof: and xhtmlambda, for that matter
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2016-06-14T20:10:17Z jasom: therik: glad you could get things working.  Life is too short to be stuck on such minor trivia.
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2016-06-14T20:34:04Z Beep: Is there an flet that has a dynamic scope?
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2016-06-14T20:36:28Z phoe_krk: Beep: now that's a question I haven't asked myself.
2016-06-14T20:36:50Z pecan: Beep: labels
2016-06-14T20:37:01Z pecan: wait nvm
2016-06-14T20:37:02Z phoe_krk: pecan: labels has dynamic scope?
2016-06-14T20:37:03Z pecan: misunderstood
2016-06-14T20:37:07Z pecan: ignore me
2016-06-14T20:37:26Z pecan misread that somehow
2016-06-14T20:37:39Z dlowe: you can view restarts as such :)
2016-06-14T20:38:12Z phoe_krk: Beep: I think you can work around this.
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2016-06-14T20:38:27Z phoe_krk: (defvar *special* #'foo)
2016-06-14T20:38:45Z phoe_krk: (let ((*special* #'bar)) (funcall *special*))
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2016-06-14T20:40:37Z Grue`: I wish there was symbol-macrolet with dynamic scope
2016-06-14T20:41:18Z phoe_krk: Grue`: how do you imagine it?
2016-06-14T20:41:45Z phoe_krk: Also, the way compilation works forbids it - which is the same reason why a dynamic flet doesn't exist.
2016-06-14T20:43:14Z Beep: I'm going to do some more research on the internets
2016-06-14T20:43:16Z Grue`: emacs even has dynamic let for *places*, like you can dynamically bind car of a list
2016-06-14T20:43:24Z Grue`: *elisp
2016-06-14T20:44:10Z phoe_krk: hum.
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2016-06-14T20:45:44Z jasom: dynamic flet and synamic symbol-macrolet would both require runtime overhead
2016-06-14T20:46:10Z jasom: and that runtime overhead would exist regardless of whether or not you were using those features
2016-06-14T20:47:21Z jasom: at least dynamic flet doesn't require delaying macroexpansion until runtime, which dynamic macros (symbol, or otherwise) would require
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2016-06-14T20:48:26Z jasom: that being said, it's certainly possible to implement a dynamic flet, provided that you require some declaration-like thing for declaring the function dynamic
2016-06-14T20:48:54Z phoe_krk: jasom: which would require either expanding the compiler or rewriting the defun again.
2016-06-14T20:49:13Z jasom: right, you wouldn't be able to use defun
2016-06-14T20:49:16Z phoe_krk: And/or making a codewalker.
2016-06-14T20:49:18Z jasom: defdynamicfun maybe
2016-06-14T20:49:41Z phoe_krk: jasom: actually, you could make a WITH-DYNAMIC-FUNCTIONS macro.
2016-06-14T20:49:50Z phoe_krk: and codewalk what's beneath.
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2016-06-14T20:50:05Z jasom: no need to codewalk
2016-06-14T20:50:12Z phoe_krk: jasom: hm?
2016-06-14T20:50:30Z jasom: (flet ((*foo* (&rest args)) (funcall *foo* args))...
2016-06-14T20:50:41Z jasom: inside the with-dynamic-functions macro
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2016-06-14T20:51:34Z phoe_krk: Oh!
2016-06-14T20:51:37Z phoe_krk: That's so simple indeed.
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2016-06-14T20:52:34Z jasom: it's still only mostly dynamic; any code outside the lexical scope of the with-dynamic-functions macro will not see the definitions
2016-06-14T20:52:49Z Grue`: 1. make it a generic function 2. redefine the base method at runtime (a macro can be written to perform that and reset it back to normal) 3. voila
2016-06-14T20:52:52Z jasom: !! I've got a better fix
2016-06-14T20:53:06Z phoe_krk: Grue`: sounds good
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2016-06-14T20:53:51Z Beep: Thanks for the help
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2016-06-14T20:54:35Z jasom: (let ((old-dfn (symbol-function '*foo*)))) (unwind-protect (progn (setf (symbol-function '*foo*) (lambda () (funcall *foo*)) ...)(setf (symbol-function '*foo*) old-dfn) ; <-- needs to handle the unbound case, but is approximately right
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2016-06-14T20:55:08Z jasom: that will work for all cases in which it is permissible to redefine the definition of *foo* (which is all cases if *foo* were declared notinline)
2016-06-14T20:55:51Z phoe_krk: jasom: dayum
2016-06-14T20:55:52Z phoe_krk: that's good
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2016-06-14T20:56:08Z jasom: and it only requires that all consumers of the dynamic function can see the special declaration for the variable *foo*, which is fine, since you need that for dynamic variable bindings anyway
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2016-06-14T21:37:40Z jasom: Sorry, had to run a quick errand, but I'm back: https://gist.github.com/jasom/04606c9e418aee6f969c8b1fdf69ba68
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2016-06-14T21:41:04Z jasom: probably still has some bugs, but: https://gist.github.com/jasom/04606c9e418aee6f969c8b1fdf69ba68#gistcomment-1801493
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2016-06-14T21:44:21Z jasom: but this is why lisp is awesome; you can go from "I wish there were an flet that has a dynamic scope" to actually having it available in a little over an hour.
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2016-06-14T21:46:37Z jasom: though this one was simple enough, I bet there's a library with it
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2016-06-14T22:12:44Z _death: the library is called contextl :)
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2016-06-14T22:53:05Z sumosudo: I guess this type of list building doesnt work.. http://pasteboard.co/1GEXJCyG.png
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2016-06-14T23:01:13Z sumosudo: incorrect (kv (kv x y)) with one argument, correct (kv (kv x y) (kv a b)) with two or more arguments..
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2016-06-14T23:21:00Z jasom: sumosudo: I would just do a (count-if #'identity (list title artist rating ripped)) before building hte list
2016-06-14T23:21:24Z jasom: s/ripped/r-p
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2016-06-14T23:39:15Z jasom: Anyone want to share their most used slime features that aren't one of: slime-compile-and-load-file, slime-eval-last-expression, slime-edit-definition, complete-symbol
2016-06-14T23:45:39Z xristos: slime-selector
2016-06-14T23:50:10Z varjag: slime-restart-inferior-lisp, slime-repl-clear-buffer
2016-06-14T23:50:30Z przl joined #lisp
2016-06-14T23:55:57Z arescorpio joined #lisp