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2016-06-01T01:53:20Z dreamaddict: if one is only using Hunchentoot (for a sketchpad maybe), do you have to manually define an easy-handler for each static file?
2016-06-01T01:53:20Z minion: dreamaddict, memo from pavelpenev: Haven't written anything in lucerne, but I've read the source and played around with it a bit, what's your question?
2016-06-01T01:54:32Z dreamaddict: I've tried getting my static files (css, js) to load right, yes I tried (setf acceptor-document-root *handler*) to set it to the proper directory on my machine...still not right
2016-06-01T01:56:11Z dreamaddict: http://paste.lisp.org/display/317200
2016-06-01T01:56:31Z eudoxia: was someone here asking about lucerne or something
2016-06-01T01:56:38Z dreamaddict: ah yes, I was earlier
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2016-06-01T01:56:49Z dreamaddict: it seems a bit tricky for large sites
2016-06-01T01:57:07Z eudoxia: ahh yes perhaps
2016-06-01T01:57:08Z dreamaddict: plus I think my outside JS files (which dynamically create buttons on the site) were having a bit of a hard time because of the djula templating
2016-06-01T01:57:18Z dreamaddict: no I said that wrong
2016-06-01T01:57:24Z eudoxia: how so
2016-06-01T01:57:25Z eudoxia: ohhh
2016-06-01T01:57:26Z dreamaddict: I mean, I am just making a small thing, and there were some problems
2016-06-01T01:57:30Z eudoxia: angular colliding with djula??
2016-06-01T01:57:37Z dreamaddict: I have *no* idea where I would start with that
2016-06-01T01:57:43Z dreamaddict: probably by not using djula in the project
2016-06-01T01:58:03Z eudoxia: oh
2016-06-01T01:58:12Z eudoxia: you mean you weren't using djula to make things simpler
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2016-06-01T01:58:31Z dreamaddict: correct, I had a zen moment about that, a few hours ago
2016-06-01T01:58:45Z dreamaddict: but that sort of thing is called "angular colliding"
2016-06-01T01:58:52Z dreamaddict: that's good to know :)
2016-06-01T01:59:10Z eudoxia: what no
2016-06-01T01:59:18Z eudoxia: no I thought you were doing uh something else
2016-06-01T01:59:19Z dreamaddict: it isn't?
2016-06-01T01:59:26Z eudoxia: well I'd recommend sticking with Djula
2016-06-01T01:59:49Z eudoxia: it is good
2016-06-01T01:59:56Z dreamaddict: well once I make anything more than a simple page I am definitely using it
2016-06-01T02:00:00Z Bike: i thought eudoxia meant AngularJS.
2016-06-01T02:00:02Z eudoxia: ok
2016-06-01T02:00:07Z eudoxia: Bike: yes that's what I meant
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2016-06-01T02:00:23Z eudoxia: Angular JS is a JS web framework that uses {{ }} syntax for templates in the HTML
2016-06-01T02:00:25Z dreamaddict: right now I just have a tiny hunchentoot thing with one page, and a few css/js files that won't load
2016-06-01T02:00:29Z eudoxia: if you're using Djula or Django this causes problems
2016-06-01T02:00:56Z eudoxia: ok if you're using Lucerne with Hunchentoot you gotta use the static files middleware to load files
2016-06-01T02:00:58Z dreamaddict: because I don't know what is happening with the pathnames
2016-06-01T02:01:04Z dreamaddict: eudoxia:  I did see that
2016-06-01T02:01:17Z eudoxia: mhm
2016-06-01T02:01:19Z eudoxia: so
2016-06-01T02:01:26Z dreamaddict: http://paste.lisp.org/display/317200
2016-06-01T02:01:28Z dreamaddict: there be the paste
2016-06-01T02:01:31Z eudoxia: what does your defapp look like
2016-06-01T02:01:48Z eudoxia: ahh
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2016-06-01T02:01:51Z eudoxia: that is not Lucerne
2016-06-01T02:01:53Z dreamaddict: oh ok hold on, I do have the lucerne thing I made as well
2016-06-01T02:02:00Z dreamaddict: right now I am trying to get this simpler version to work right
2016-06-01T02:02:06Z eudoxia: tbh i've never used Hunchentoot directly
2016-06-01T02:02:09Z dreamaddict: since all of the other "fancier" frameworks are kind of based on this
2016-06-01T02:02:19Z eudoxia: so I can't advise on how to use it to serve static files
2016-06-01T02:02:19Z eudoxia: well
2016-06-01T02:02:21Z eudoxia: not quite
2016-06-01T02:02:31Z eudoxia: Lucerne is built on Clack which has many "backends"
2016-06-01T02:02:31Z dreamaddict: do I need easy-handlers for each static file?
2016-06-01T02:02:34Z eudoxia: Hunchentoot being one
2016-06-01T02:02:51Z eudoxia: so it's less "based on" and more "internally maps to"
2016-06-01T02:02:53Z eudoxia: idk man
2016-06-01T02:02:54Z dreamaddict: right
2016-06-01T02:02:57Z eudoxia: let me check the docs
2016-06-01T02:03:20Z dreamaddict: notice I did try to change the root pathname to the right one, so that http://localhost/js would indeed map to the right /js/
2016-06-01T02:03:27Z dreamaddict: I really thought that would do it
2016-06-01T02:03:35Z eudoxia: create-folder-dispatcher-and-handler might be what you want
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2016-06-01T02:03:47Z dreamaddict: ok that's what the doohickey is called
2016-06-01T02:04:01Z dreamaddict: and then put handlers in for the directories
2016-06-01T02:04:05Z eudoxia: ah I just saw you set acceptor-document-root
2016-06-01T02:04:26Z eudoxia: >By default, Hunchentoot serves the files from the www/ directory in its source tree. In the distribution, that directory contains a HTML version of the documentation as well as the error templates. The location of the document root directory can be specified when creating a new ACCEPTOR instance by the way of the ACCEPTOR-DOCUMENT-ROOT
2016-06-01T02:04:27Z eudoxia: hmm
2016-06-01T02:04:35Z dreamaddict: one sec, I might not have recompiled everything right, after making that change
2016-06-01T02:05:03Z eudoxia: oh i think i know the problem
2016-06-01T02:05:17Z eudoxia: or one of them
2016-06-01T02:05:17Z eudoxia: defvar doesn't change its value if you recompile it
2016-06-01T02:05:17Z eudoxia: you gotta setf it
2016-06-01T02:05:21Z eudoxia: better yet just make it a defparameter
2016-06-01T02:05:37Z eudoxia: when you recompile a defparameter it changes the value
2016-06-01T02:05:37Z dreamaddict: lol usually I defparameter everything
2016-06-01T02:05:41Z eudoxia: (defvar's behaviour is useful because of reasons, sometimes)
2016-06-01T02:07:31Z dreamaddict: ok bam
2016-06-01T02:07:32Z dreamaddict: got it
2016-06-01T02:07:35Z dreamaddict: you were right
2016-06-01T02:07:39Z dreamaddict: (and so was I)
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2016-06-01T02:10:19Z eudoxia: (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧
2016-06-01T02:10:22Z eudoxia: yey
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2016-06-01T02:13:31Z papachan: eudoxia hello
2016-06-01T02:13:36Z eudoxia: hello
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2016-06-01T03:48:03Z axion: Hello all. question: http://paste.lisp.org/display/317203
2016-06-01T03:51:34Z dreamaddict: axion:  first guess, make a small function that recurses, and just collect all of the leaves in a loop
2016-06-01T03:52:29Z dreamaddict: although if they are all 3-element vectors, then hmmm...
2016-06-01T03:53:46Z axion: Yes, they are.
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2016-06-01T04:19:48Z dreamaddict: axion: http://paste.lisp.org/display/317203#1
2016-06-01T04:20:02Z dreamaddict: there's a solution, at least
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2016-06-01T04:21:58Z dreamaddict: don't know how "professional" that is though
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2016-06-01T04:42:05Z aeth: drmeister: Any plans for or progress on issue #162, CFFI support? https://github.com/drmeister/clasp/issues/162
2016-06-01T04:44:43Z akkad: easy locking
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2016-06-01T05:00:10Z akkad: actually outside bt, are there any semaphore packages?
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2016-06-01T05:04:18Z jasom: akkad:
2016-06-01T05:04:33Z jasom: akkad: there are a couple of tools that expose posix APIs, including semaphores
2016-06-01T05:04:59Z akkad: bt-semaphores seems like what I want
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2016-06-01T05:17:51Z dreamaddict: man I am so happy that there are good Lisp solutions for websites/servers
2016-06-01T05:18:16Z dreamaddict: the thought of having to do it all with JS makes me shudder
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2016-06-01T06:36:07Z dreamaddict: ok this is weird:  http://paste.lisp.org/display/317211
2016-06-01T06:36:21Z dreamaddict: weird to me, at least
2016-06-01T06:37:32Z dreamaddict: apparently simply macroing raw Lispy HTML into with-html-output-as-string doesn't work
2016-06-01T06:39:10Z Bike: yeah. it's in http://weitz.de/cl-who/#syntax
2016-06-01T06:40:32Z dreamaddict: durnit
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2016-06-01T06:56:09Z jasom: dreamaddict: define a function that takes a stream and have that function also invoke w-h-o
2016-06-01T06:57:47Z dreamaddict: I am almost following you, but I don't *quite* get exactly why it doesn't work in the first place
2016-06-01T06:58:25Z dreamaddict: my backquote-fu isn't sharp enough somehow...but how would your suggestion work?
2016-06-01T06:59:51Z PuercoPop: dreamaddict: check spinneret's with-html-string
2016-06-01T07:00:08Z jasom: dreamaddict: http://paste.lisp.org/display/317211#1
2016-06-01T07:00:30Z jasom: dreamaddict: sorry, didn't have a slime open
2016-06-01T07:01:18Z jasom: Depending on your application, you may want to use a special variable for the stream, which will save you passing the stream around as a parameter
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2016-06-01T07:04:08Z jasom: dreamaddict: your version doesn't work because a combination of the fact that macros are expanded from the outside in, and the implementation of cl-who.
2016-06-01T07:04:38Z dreamaddict: that's weird (to me) about macros, since I assumed they went inside-out like functions do (?)
2016-06-01T07:05:01Z jasom: dreamaddict: they can't be, otherwise you couldn't control evaluation and create DSLs that behave differently from lisp
2016-06-01T07:05:25Z dreamaddict: ok, then I don't know how to control evaluation inside of a macro...yet...
2016-06-01T07:05:39Z dreamaddict: well I'll try your snippet there, it's probably good enough for now
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2016-06-01T07:05:48Z dreamaddict: I just wanted a way to macro up some custom controls and whatnot
2016-06-01T07:06:16Z jasom: the macrowriter has complete control of how evaluation inside of their macro proceeds
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2016-06-01T07:06:50Z jasom: in the case of cl-who, it does not expand macros before walking the tree, so it will have already done all of its DSL logic before your macro is expanded
2016-06-01T07:07:21Z jasom: your macro ends up being expanded later, because in cl-who all compound forms are preserved in place (which is why calling functions that emit html to the stream works)
2016-06-01T07:08:42Z jasom: in any event, this is a case where a function is (to me at least) not more awkward than a macro.  The explicit passing of the stream is the only increased friction.  And one ought not use a macro when a function will do.
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2016-06-01T07:10:17Z dreamaddict: how would I use a special variable for the stream, so that I don't have to pass it?
2016-06-01T07:10:33Z dreamaddict: (I have a strange mental block on understanding streams, which I haven't gotten around yet)
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2016-06-01T07:11:26Z dreamaddict: true, I was only using a macro because I didn't know they expanded outside-in
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2016-06-01T07:23:53Z dreamaddict: well that does work for now
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2016-06-01T10:54:47Z hjudt: using a regexp pattern, how can i do that non-verbosely like in perl (matching a subgroup)?
2016-06-01T10:54:59Z jackdaniel: hjudt: check out cl-ppcre
2016-06-01T10:55:02Z jackdaniel: ;)
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2016-06-01T12:06:40Z Xach:   /win 3
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2016-06-01T12:33:01Z Grue`: I think I'm about to use PROGV for the first time ever
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2016-06-01T12:58:16Z papachan: morning
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2016-06-01T13:08:05Z papachan: Do you know is there any javascript library to play on graphic from CL?
2016-06-01T13:08:38Z jackdaniel doesn't understand the question
2016-06-01T13:08:39Z papachan: i would llike to draw graphics in the browser. I didnt get a look at parenscript
2016-06-01T13:08:52Z papachan: jackdaniel, hi
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2016-06-01T13:08:58Z jackdaniel: ah, parenscript transpiles CL code to javascript
2016-06-01T13:09:44Z papachan: definitively i would make a try first with parenscript
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2016-06-01T13:22:30Z Grue`: oh wow, symbol-value actually works with dynamic bindings, how nice
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2016-06-01T13:49:30Z warweasle: XachX_: Did I miss the deadline for squirl?
2016-06-01T13:49:41Z Xach: warweasle: yep. but it will be in the
2016-06-01T13:49:44Z Xach: june update
2016-06-01T13:49:55Z Xach: warweasle: also, squirl .asd needs :description in it
2016-06-01T13:50:13Z warweasle: Xach: I finally got that email. I'll fix it in a bit.
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2016-06-01T13:56:26Z warweasle: Xach: Did clinch fail? I don't see it in the list of modified packages.
2016-06-01T13:57:17Z Xach: warweasle: https://github.com/BradWBeer/clinch/tree/quicklisp hasn't been updated since april
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2016-06-01T13:57:40Z warweasle: Xach: Weird...I updated it yesterday.
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2016-06-01T13:57:49Z Xach: warweasle: That's not what github says
2016-06-01T13:59:14Z warweasle: Xach: Right...I have no idea what could have happened...
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2016-06-01T14:00:40Z warweasle: The network graph shows I changed it on the 28th...https://github.com/BradWBeer/clinch/network
2016-06-01T14:01:13Z Xach: warweasle: yeah. the 28th of april.
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2016-06-01T14:02:03Z warweasle: Ok, I really am losing my mind.
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2016-06-01T14:04:02Z Xach: failed push?
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2016-06-01T14:06:54Z warweasle: Xach: Failed brain. I may not have made any changes...but that seems like a long time. I was working on my game though.
2016-06-01T14:07:01Z Xach: lost time
2016-06-01T14:09:12Z warweasle: Lots of random weirdness in my life.
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2016-06-01T16:20:13Z jasom: minion: memo for dreamaddict: sorry, I went to bed before you asked your last question; here's a simple example: http://paste.lisp.org/display/317211#2
2016-06-01T16:20:13Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell dreamaddict when he/she/it next speaks.
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2016-06-01T16:22:45Z jasom: jackdaniel: parenscritp does *not* transpile CL code to javascript; it transpiles parenscript to javascript.  Parenscript includes a fairly basic subset of common lisp, as well as a significant amount of javascript specific stuff, and its macros are implemented in common lisp.  Furthermore it makes some attempt at producing readable javascript.  jscl is much closer to a lisp to js transpiler (I think it may
2016-06-01T16:22:46Z jasom: even be self-hosting at this point).
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2016-06-01T16:26:04Z jackdaniel: uhm, isn't it that jscl is an interpreter?
2016-06-01T16:26:57Z jasom: jackdaniel: IIRC it is a hybrid; many special forms, functions and macros compile down all the way to js
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2016-06-01T16:27:14Z jackdaniel: regarding the parenscript I'm not sure if I understand it. Of course parenscript isn't full CL implementation, just a subset, but it transpiles subset of CL directly to JS
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2016-06-01T16:27:55Z jasom: jackdaniel: it can transpile a subset of CL directly to JS, but you can also write code that is js specific; it's really more of a DSL for emitting javascript that happens to include a subset of CL
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2016-06-01T16:28:54Z jackdaniel: I had another impression when I used it, it felt more like a CL--
2016-06-01T16:29:03Z jasom: https://github.com/davazp/jscl/blob/master/src/compiler/compiler.lisp <-- everything defined here gets compiled to javascript
2016-06-01T16:29:04Z jackdaniel: but sure, it's a matter of perspective I suppose
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2016-06-01T16:29:52Z jasom: e.g. builtin to parenscript, there is no way to create or access a javascript object the same way you would create or access any associative type from lisp
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2016-06-01T16:30:55Z jackdaniel: what you say stays in contradiction with https://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/
2016-06-01T16:30:58Z jackdaniel: regarding the types
2016-06-01T16:31:00Z jasom: oh, I'm wrong there is a with-slots, which is the one exception
2016-06-01T16:32:18Z jasom: https://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/reference.html#section-objects <-- but there is only one symbol for dealing with JS objects that also exists in common lisp.
2016-06-01T16:33:17Z jackdaniel: I'm sorry, but what's your point?
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2016-06-01T16:33:51Z jasom: it's a very tiny subset of common lisp and a tiny subset of parenscript that is usable in both
2016-06-01T16:34:38Z jackdaniel: OK, your opinion noted. Now please excuse me, I'll be afk in a moment :)
2016-06-01T16:34:43Z jasom: you can write code that will work in both, and I do, but I think calling it a CL to js transpiler is overstating its abilities
2016-06-01T16:34:45Z jasom: ok :)
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2016-06-01T16:48:48Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2016-06-01T16:48:54Z lambda-smith: Hi!
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2016-06-01T17:09:15Z akkad: is there a default one can use for invoke-restart? specifically "retry" is the first one, and was not sure if you just pass the name as seen in the debugger
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2016-06-01T17:10:16Z Bike: clthere's no default, but you can just pass the name displayed in the debugger.
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2016-06-01T17:12:32Z akkad: thanks
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2016-06-01T17:12:46Z akkad: Database error: This connection is still processing another query. specifically.
2016-06-01T17:12:47Z akkad:  
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2016-06-01T17:20:08Z cmos: is there any way, given a list of keyword symbols (:x :y :z), to programmatically generate a function with arguments (x y z)?
2016-06-01T17:20:20Z akkad: https://gist.github.com/1439cd5ac2882189d24e158c3b8e6671
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2016-06-01T17:20:36Z akkad: coerce string?
2016-06-01T17:20:41Z beach: cmos: What would that function do?
2016-06-01T17:21:47Z cmos: in general, given an expression such as '(+ :x :y :z), i need to generate a function which, when given the correct number of arguments, will evaluate the expression (in this case, resulting in something like (lambda (x y z) (+ x y z)))
2016-06-01T17:21:51Z cmos: beach ^
2016-06-01T17:22:24Z Fade just had somebody who had no idea he was a lisper ask him about pgloader
2016-06-01T17:22:57Z Fade: good tools FTW.
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2016-06-01T17:23:27Z beach: cmos: Do you care that the arguments have the same names as the keyword symbols?
2016-06-01T17:23:30Z akkad: so given a entry like this how do you hook this up to a invoke-restart 0: [retry] Retry SLIME REPL evaluation request.
2016-06-01T17:23:53Z beach: cmos: Or would (lambda (bla1 bla2 bla3) (+ bla1 bla2 bla3)) do?
2016-06-01T17:24:25Z Bike: what do you mean "hook this up to"? there has to be a restart-bind or restart-case wherever the error is signaled, if that's what you mean
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2016-06-01T17:25:22Z cmos: beach, that would certainly do
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2016-06-01T17:26:14Z akkad: Bike: right. as you can see in the gist above that is there. however trying to invoke the first restart here programatically from invoke-restart is where I'm stuck.
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2016-06-01T17:26:40Z akkad: i.e. "retry"
2016-06-01T17:26:48Z Bike: there's no restart bind/case there but ok. how exactly are you "stuck", because that code looks fine to me.
2016-06-01T17:27:05Z beach: cmos: (defun make-fun (expression) (let ((args (loop for keyword in (cdr expression) collect (gensym)))) (compile nil `(lambda ,args (cons (car expression) args)))))
2016-06-01T17:28:43Z jathd: cmos: or (coerce `(lambda ...) 'function) if you don't want to compile your function
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2016-06-01T17:31:24Z beach: cmos: There are a few missing commas in my definition: (defun make-fun (expression) (let ((args (loop for keyword in (cdr expression) collect (gensym)))) (compile nil `(lambda ,args ,(cons (car expression) args)))))
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2016-06-01T17:32:19Z beach: It happens when one doesn't test it before submitting it.
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2016-06-01T17:35:43Z cmos: hmm, thanks. I'm going to spend a bit seeing if i can expand that to the general use-case of nested expressions and whatnot.
2016-06-01T17:36:09Z beach: That would be more challenging.  But now you have the idea.
2016-06-01T17:36:30Z cmos: yeah
2016-06-01T17:36:57Z cmos: the main issue that i could see facing with this approach is single argument occurring twice, ie '(* :x :y :x)
2016-06-01T17:37:47Z beach: Yes, and you never told us what you want to happen in that case. :)
2016-06-01T17:38:04Z Grue`: make a hash table keyword -> gensym
2016-06-01T17:38:18Z cmos: yeah, i like that thought
2016-06-01T17:38:21Z Bike: or just intern them in a package, which is practically the same thing.
2016-06-01T17:38:23Z Grue`: *or plist
2016-06-01T17:44:37Z Bike: or use non-keyword symbols in the first place.
2016-06-01T17:45:51Z cmos: i'm doing a lot of symbolic manipulation which (i think) would make that tough
2016-06-01T17:46:04Z cmos: i'm pretty new to lisp, though, so i could be totally misunderstanding the situation
2016-06-01T17:46:28Z jathd: So I'm bored: http://paste.lisp.org/display/317254
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2016-06-01T17:48:32Z beach: cmos: It sounds plausible that there is something you are misunderstanding.
2016-06-01T17:49:33Z cmos: yeah, there was something i was misunderstanding; there's no need for met o be using keyword symbols
2016-06-01T17:49:36Z cmos: cool!
2016-06-01T17:49:39Z cmos: that makes this much simpler
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2016-06-01T18:00:28Z Xach: jackdaniel: the trouble planet lisp is having is non-ascii character in <link>
2016-06-01T18:00:32Z Xach: krako'w
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2016-06-01T18:00:46Z Xach: my ancient software must be tweaked to fit
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2016-06-01T18:10:54Z phoe_krk: jathd: what does it do?
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2016-06-01T18:11:19Z beach: phoe_krk: It attempts to solve the problem posed by cmos.
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2016-06-01T18:12:04Z TruePika: meh <_<
2016-06-01T18:12:19Z TruePika: so I'm using cl-libxml2 for a _lot_ of HTML and XML parsing
2016-06-01T18:12:46Z TruePika: SBCL keeps exiting with exit code 1, and I can't find the actual issue (which I suspect is libxml2)
2016-06-01T18:13:12Z TruePika: and I can't attach gdb since that seems to break everything
2016-06-01T18:13:15Z Xach: Does it print anything before exiting?
2016-06-01T18:13:18Z TruePika: nope
2016-06-01T18:13:30Z TruePika: well, nothing weird
2016-06-01T18:13:36Z phoe_krk: beach: got it. It absolutely looked like symbolic manipulation.
2016-06-01T18:13:38Z TruePika: just (FORMAT) stuff from normal execution
2016-06-01T18:14:08Z TruePika: no "Killed" or backtrace (I'm running with --script) or anything
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2016-06-01T18:14:41Z TruePika: As far as I can tell, it is an exit from user code (as opposed to the Linux kernel)
2016-06-01T18:16:08Z TruePika: libxml2 2.9.4, built from source
2016-06-01T18:17:45Z Xach: Sorry, don't know. I wonder if there's an error handler in libxml2 that calls exit or something.
2016-06-01T18:18:02Z Xach: A C way of "handling" errors
2016-06-01T18:18:04Z TruePika: that's my theory, I'm grepping the source right now
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2016-06-01T18:21:39Z TruePika: I see an exit(1) in timsort.h, but it is preceeded by a fprintf to stderr
2016-06-01T18:22:58Z TruePika: meh, I can't use strace either <_<
2016-06-01T18:23:59Z Xach: that's one reason why i try to avoid foreign libraries :(
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2016-06-01T18:27:35Z jasom: someone is using timsort?
2016-06-01T18:27:52Z TruePika: jasom: libxml2
2016-06-01T18:27:55Z jasom: ah
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2016-06-01T18:36:21Z TruePika: well now I'm writing out the XML/HTML to file before passing it to libxml2
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2016-06-01T18:36:53Z TruePika: and unsuppressed warnings for HTML parsing, although some...well, I just got an error
2016-06-01T18:37:04Z TruePika: ...
2016-06-01T18:37:21Z TruePika: with a backtrace so long (containing the full HTML) I can't actually read it <_<
2016-06-01T18:38:02Z TruePika: I've gotten some exits from XML parsing, which never issues warnings
2016-06-01T18:38:33Z jasom: TruePika: for a future note, you can attach with gdb if you suppress break on sigsegv
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2016-06-01T18:39:35Z jasom: "handle SIGSEGV nostop"
2016-06-01T18:39:35Z TruePika: jasom: I've tried that, but SBCL exits itself
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2016-06-01T18:39:45Z TruePika: in fact "handle all nostop"
2016-06-01T18:40:00Z TruePika: just got an exit from what should be an HTML parse
2016-06-01T18:40:10Z TruePika: ...
2016-06-01T18:40:26Z TruePika: the file is null
2016-06-01T18:41:01Z TruePika: that shouldn't be the case, especially since I _check_ if the file was null
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2016-06-01T18:41:27Z jasom: (looked in my histor, it's "handle SIGSEGV nostop noprint pass")
2016-06-01T18:43:22Z TruePika: oh I see why it was null <_<
2016-06-01T18:43:25Z TruePika: not an exit()
2016-06-01T18:43:49Z TruePika: a typo in my WRITE-STRING <_<
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2016-06-01T18:45:03Z TruePika: I also have a bad feeling that the exit() is aging-related
2016-06-01T18:46:23Z TruePika: I can test that at next exit() though
2016-06-01T18:47:18Z TruePika: HTML parser exit(), no condition
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2016-06-01T18:49:53Z TruePika: and no exit() when I parse that file again
2016-06-01T18:50:08Z TruePika: this is related to aging, it seems
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2016-06-01T19:03:25Z TruePika: jasom: gdb catches a SIGTRAP, 'continue' then causes SBCL to memory fault and die
2016-06-01T19:03:53Z TruePika: this is with both SIGSEGV and SIGUSR1 being passed into SBCL
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2016-06-01T19:06:07Z TruePika: okay SIGTRAP means that SBCL is about to crash
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2016-06-01T19:07:27Z Xach: jackdaniel: it has been fixed
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2016-06-01T19:11:01Z jasom: SIGTRAP does not mean sbcl is about to crash, you have to not handle that as well, but then you lose breakpoints in gdb
2016-06-01T19:11:32Z jasom: I think the condition handling system of sbcl uses sigtrap
2016-06-01T19:12:35Z TruePika: then what use is having gdb attached?
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2016-06-01T19:12:46Z jackdaniel: Xach: fantastic, thanks!
2016-06-01T19:12:54Z TruePika: exit() unwinds the stack, and I can't break on exit?
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2016-06-01T19:13:48Z Bike: regular conditions shouldn't involve any signals...
2016-06-01T19:13:59Z jasom: Bike: I get a SIGTRAP on startup with sbcl
2016-06-01T19:14:06Z TruePika: oh my...
2016-06-01T19:14:38Z Bike: i mean, regular condition handling, like a call to error, that just calls some functions in a dynamic variable
2016-06-01T19:14:45Z TruePika: debugger invoked on a SB-SYS:MEMORY-FAULT-ERROR in thread #<THREAD "main thread" RUNNING {1002A8C5B3}>:  Unhandled memory fault at #x40200066.
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2016-06-01T19:15:04Z jasom: Bike: well in my sbclrc anyway.  with --no-userinit it doesn't happen
2016-06-01T19:15:23Z TruePika: yeah I don't think that gdb is going to be very useful at all
2016-06-01T19:16:55Z Bike: sigtrap seems to work wit without-interrupts
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2016-06-01T19:18:57Z jasom: ah
2016-06-01T19:19:27Z TruePika: now I wonder if timsort isn't actually getting the _real_ STDERR
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2016-06-01T19:19:50Z TruePika: if CFFI is breaking it somehow
2016-06-01T19:20:13Z TruePika: I'll change the exit code and see what happens
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2016-06-01T19:33:32Z TruePika: okay, I can't find a source of exit() _anywhere_ in libxml2 aside from that one instance in timsort; everything else is in compiled programs (not the lib)
2016-06-01T19:34:01Z TruePika: and that timsort instance isn't being called
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2016-06-01T19:39:11Z TruePika: hm, apparently --script includes stuff like --disable-ldb
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2016-06-01T19:40:40Z Bike: yeah, because script just makes it die immediately as soon as there's any problem.
2016-06-01T19:41:16Z Bike: you could try --no-sysinit --no-userinit --load, maybe?
2016-06-01T19:41:17Z TruePika: well now I'm running without runtime --script (just toplevel) so ldb exists
2016-06-01T19:41:59Z TruePika: I think my use of --script might have caused a lot of gdb issues...
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2016-06-01T19:42:45Z TruePika: ...I _did_ compile with LDB, right?
2016-06-01T19:43:30Z Bike: unless you deliberately excluded it, probably
2016-06-01T19:44:25Z TruePika: I wouldn't have
2016-06-01T19:45:09Z Bike: yeah it's in by default.
2016-06-01T19:45:12Z TruePika: :SB-LDB is present also
2016-06-01T19:45:18Z Bike: there you are then.
2016-06-01T19:47:32Z TruePika: there was another exit without anything useful
2016-06-01T19:47:49Z TruePika: I just ran this again, but now from a normal REPL
2016-06-01T19:48:08Z TruePika: if this doesn't enter LDB, I don't know what will
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2016-06-01T19:52:35Z TruePika: somehow it hasn't crashed yet
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2016-06-01T19:53:05Z jasom: I thought of a (depending on your view) either nifty hack or ugly hack, and I figure it can't be new.  I wrote a setf-expander that assigns the result of a functional transformation to the place that holds the functional data.
2016-06-01T19:54:24Z jasom: so e.g. (setf (functional-get x) y) expands to something like (setq y (functional-set x))
2016-06-01T19:54:45Z jasom: oops that's wrong
2016-06-01T19:54:57Z TruePika: 12:48 < TruePika> if this doesn't enter LDB, I don't know what will
2016-06-01T19:55:03Z TruePika: it _still_ is running
2016-06-01T19:55:11Z Bike: is it working, at least
2016-06-01T19:55:21Z jasom: so e.g. (setf (functional-get x z) y) expands to something like (setq y (functional-set x z))
2016-06-01T19:55:45Z Bike: that seems pretty weird
2016-06-01T19:56:09Z jasom: TruePika: perhaps there's something in your .sbclrc that is making it work?
2016-06-01T19:56:24Z TruePika: jasom: possibly, either that or system one
2016-06-01T19:57:05Z TruePika: My RC just loads quicklisp, something the script does as well
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2016-06-01T19:58:41Z TruePika: I don't even see a system RC
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2016-06-01T20:00:40Z TruePika: oh there we go, found a possible system RC
2016-06-01T20:00:48Z TruePika: every single line is commented out, though
2016-06-01T20:01:13Z Bike: well, does it work if you just run it from repl with just --no-sysinit?
2016-06-01T20:02:03Z TruePika: I'm too scared to stop it right now to test that <_<
2016-06-01T20:02:12Z jasom: are you sure it's still running? IIRC the slime repl doesn't show ldb, you need to look in *inferior-lisp*
2016-06-01T20:02:39Z TruePika: jasom: I'm physically looking at the output, and I ran it from bash
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2016-06-01T20:03:15Z TruePika: I tend to be verbose in this code :)
2016-06-01T20:03:23Z TruePika: helps to tell when stuff stops working
2016-06-01T20:03:31Z jasom: yup
2016-06-01T20:03:39Z TruePika: oh I can probably stop it soon
2016-06-01T20:03:54Z jasom: are you using stdin?
2016-06-01T20:03:55Z TruePika: hopefully this didn't deadlock now though
2016-06-01T20:04:03Z jasom: IIRC --script changes stdin
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2016-06-01T20:04:29Z TruePika: yeah now I'm worried my threading stuff deadlocked <_<
2016-06-01T20:04:46Z TruePika: oh wait, it did, and I know exactly why >_>
2016-06-01T20:04:48Z jasom: no, it doesn't change stdin, my memory is wrong
2016-06-01T20:05:00Z TruePika: yeah I need to kill this anyway <_<
2016-06-01T20:05:39Z TruePika: (one thread exited from an ERROR, which didn't tell my thread manager that it finished)
2016-06-01T20:05:49Z TruePika: (I should fix that)
2016-06-01T20:06:10Z jasom: you probably want to pass --lose-on-corruption if you have lots of output, or you might miss the warning
2016-06-01T20:06:37Z jasom: with --lose-on-corruption and --disable-ldb (which --script does) you just exit when there is corruption
2016-06-01T20:06:47Z jasom: without either, it just prints a warning and keeps going
2016-06-01T20:07:17Z jasom: it often dies shortly after that, but not always
2016-06-01T20:10:35Z TruePika: about to test --lose-on-corruption --no-sysinit
2016-06-01T20:11:13Z TruePika: and a different (but comparable) data set (so I'm not redoing all the work it had just done successfully)
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2016-06-01T20:17:07Z TruePika: no exit/crash
2016-06-01T20:17:44Z TruePika: adding --no-userinit to the mix now
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2016-06-01T20:26:05Z TruePika: adding --load
2016-06-01T20:26:14Z TruePika: which probably won't change anything
2016-06-01T20:26:19Z TruePika: also back on the original data set
2016-06-01T20:27:43Z phoe_krk: I have a list of lists - each entry is of the form (A B), where A, B are symbols.
2016-06-01T20:28:01Z phoe_krk: I need to sort it - by first symbol first, second symbol second, with STRING< predicate.
2016-06-01T20:28:28Z phoe_krk: But if I just SORT the list twice, it won't work.
2016-06-01T20:28:32Z TruePika: maybe if you concat the two symbol strings together with :key?
2016-06-01T20:28:38Z TruePika: or hm
2016-06-01T20:28:41Z phoe_krk: ...
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2016-06-01T20:28:55Z phoe_krk: TruePika: you're a genius.
2016-06-01T20:28:57Z phoe_krk: Thanks!
2016-06-01T20:29:07Z dlowe: (sort seq (lambda (x y) (if (string= (first x) (first y)) (string< (second x) (second y)) (string< (first x) (first y)))))
2016-06-01T20:29:07Z Bike: it's pretty quick to write a function that takes a function and makes a lexicographic ordering function out of it er ok.
2016-06-01T20:29:10Z TruePika: there might be an issue with that, though
2016-06-01T20:29:41Z TruePika: (A BC) != (AB C) for instance, but a straight concat would say they are the same
2016-06-01T20:29:50Z phoe_krk: TruePika: they're one-letter.
2016-06-01T20:29:55Z phoe_krk: Which simplifies things.
2016-06-01T20:30:11Z TruePika: ah, yeah a concat would probably work
2016-06-01T20:30:35Z TruePika 's code _still_ hasn't crashed...
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2016-06-01T20:31:01Z TruePika: trying --script again
2016-06-01T20:31:02Z phoe_krk: dlowe: thanks. I didn't think of defining my own predicate like this.
2016-06-01T20:31:14Z TruePika: just to make sure it still crashes "normally"
2016-06-01T20:35:17Z TruePika: just quit
2016-06-01T20:35:28Z TruePika: with --script on runtime
2016-06-01T20:37:06Z TruePika: trying --noinform --lose-on-corruption --end-runtime-options --script; basically runtime --script but with ldb
2016-06-01T20:37:41Z TruePika: if this doesn't crash, ldb is the cause
2016-06-01T20:37:56Z TruePika: which will be ironic
2016-06-01T20:38:03Z TruePika: err lack of ldb
2016-06-01T20:38:14Z TruePika: which will be something I forget the name of
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2016-06-01T20:38:37Z TruePika: ...
2016-06-01T20:38:41Z TruePika: well it crashed...
2016-06-01T20:38:44Z TruePika: ...without ldb
2016-06-01T20:40:31Z TruePika: doing the same thing, but expanding toplevel --script and enabling debugger
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2016-06-01T20:45:07Z mathi_aihtam: Does anyone know what happened to Elephant? https://common-lisp.net/project/elephant/
2016-06-01T20:45:28Z mathi_aihtam: Is there another persistency library that has taken it's place?
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2016-06-01T20:47:47Z TruePika: --disable-debugger appears to also disable LDB, according to SBCL manual
2016-06-01T20:48:02Z TruePika: sb-ext:disable-debugger
2016-06-01T20:48:22Z TruePika: so any --script will ALWAYS result in the lack of ldb
2016-06-01T20:48:34Z TruePika: err move those caps to 'any'
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2016-06-01T21:20:07Z TruePika: It seems like I'm only getting crashes when toplevel --script is specified (which is also implied by runtime --script)
2016-06-01T21:20:28Z TruePika: --noinform --disable-ldb --lose-on-corruption --end-runtime-options --no-sysinit --no-userinit --disable-debugger --load doesn't seem to crash
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2016-06-01T21:21:47Z TruePika: Confirming by changing --load to --script
2016-06-01T21:27:28Z TruePika: just crashed
2016-06-01T21:28:28Z Bike: that's pretty bizarre.
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2016-06-01T21:31:27Z TruePika: yeah, definitly crashing as a result of --script
2016-06-01T21:31:41Z TruePika: need to go AFK
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2016-06-01T21:43:49Z jasom: mathi_aihtam: http://www.cliki.net/ObjectStore I don't know which are still maintained
2016-06-01T21:45:05Z jasom: manardb looked really prommissing, but was abandoned not long after its birth
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2016-06-01T21:47:27Z mathi_aihtam: so many spectacular but half-finished projects.
2016-06-01T21:47:56Z jasom: oh, AllegoCache isn't listed there, and I think it works on sbcl
2016-06-01T21:48:18Z mathi_aihtam: thanks
2016-06-01T21:49:50Z jasom: I'm wrong, it only works with allegro
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2016-06-01T22:18:42Z optikalmouse: pdf warning; paper on inkwell, a lisp-based creative assistant: http://rpgpoet.com/Files/InkWell.pdf
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2016-06-01T22:29:12Z bearasinbear: cool
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2016-06-01T22:34:04Z groovy2shoes: optikalmouse, neat!  I'd honestly like to have something like this for technical writing, too, optimizing for clarity and reader comprehension first and foremost
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2016-06-01T22:38:47Z bearasinbear: what if they actually, but secretly, had InkWell write the paper for them?
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2016-06-01T23:05:11Z jasom: The poet, Quinton said "breaks you out of that earnest, that linear thinking.” At this point he told theAt this point he told the story of how the leader of a writing group he was in gave him the exercise to write the worst poem he could. Then after presenting that poem to the group, he was instructed to revise it to make it even worse. He said that this exercise, repeated for several poems, gave him some of
2016-06-01T23:05:13Z jasom: the “strongest” poems he’s ever written." or to paraphrase "Worse is Better" :P
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