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2016-05-30T00:10:16Z phoe_krk: hcddwch: wtf
2016-05-30T00:10:54Z phoe_krk: scrtie: wtf
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2016-05-30T00:12:55Z hcddwch: phoe_krk: wtf
2016-05-30T00:14:37Z papachan`: what do: (declare (optimize (speed 3))) ?
2016-05-30T00:15:23Z Bike: it tells the compiler to put especial effort into optimizing the speed of the compiled code in that scope
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2016-05-30T00:16:11Z papachan`: oh nice
2016-05-30T00:17:37Z phoe_krk: hcddwch: all the nickname changes
2016-05-30T00:19:14Z papachan`: :(
2016-05-30T00:19:16Z papachan`:  There is no function named declare.
2016-05-30T00:20:21Z blub: you can only use it at the beginning of the bodies of some forms
2016-05-30T00:20:43Z _death: you may want declaim
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2016-05-30T00:36:10Z scrtie: phoe_krk: sorry, long off-topic story ._.
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2016-05-30T00:44:12Z Bike: "changed nicks rapidly for jokiness another channel"
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2016-05-30T00:59:04Z scrtie: Bike: yes, shorter with that delivery
2016-05-30T00:59:30Z Bike: tale as old as time
2016-05-30T00:59:48Z scrtie: heh
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2016-05-30T01:27:06Z mfsa: hey, is there any special form in loop which lets me define different behavior for last element? (or only manually?)
2016-05-30T01:27:41Z mfsa: (looping over list)
2016-05-30T01:29:27Z zRecursive: mfsa: there is "when" clause in loop.
2016-05-30T01:30:41Z mfsa: is there something like (loop for x in list collect (if <<<last>>> -do-something-if-last- -do-something-else))
2016-05-30T01:31:13Z zRecursive: of course
2016-05-30T01:31:40Z zRecursive: (if (eql x (last list)) () ())
2016-05-30T01:32:04Z mfsa: is this gonna work when list contains atoms?
2016-05-30T01:32:55Z mfsa: sound like might not work for ("a" "b" "a" "c")
2016-05-30T01:33:11Z mfsa: sorry add "a" in the end
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2016-05-30T01:34:27Z zRecursive: (string= "a" "a") => t
2016-05-30T01:34:53Z mfsa: what about (1 2 2 1)
2016-05-30T01:35:42Z zRecursive: then you can use (equal "a" "a"), (equal 1 1)
2016-05-30T01:36:11Z mfsa: yeah but the loop iteration wont work as expected
2016-05-30T01:36:28Z mfsa: or is it
2016-05-30T01:36:40Z zRecursive: show us your code snippet ?
2016-05-30T01:37:03Z Bike: you can do loop for (element . rest) on list when (endp rest) whatever
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2016-05-30T01:37:37Z zRecursive: there is endp , great!
2016-05-30T01:38:27Z zRecursive: Bike: (if (equal x (last list)) () ())	works ?
2016-05-30T01:40:33Z mfsa: sec
2016-05-30T01:40:49Z Bike: well, no, because last returns the last cons, not the last element. also you'd be going over the list twice, which may or may not matter.
2016-05-30T01:41:40Z Bike: oh and the list could have duplicate elements.
2016-05-30T01:42:11Z zRecursive: right
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2016-05-30T01:42:30Z zRecursive: it depends the list
2016-05-30T01:42:55Z mfsa: you lost me
2016-05-30T01:42:56Z mfsa: (let ((test '(1 2 2 1)))
2016-05-30T01:42:56Z mfsa:   (loop for x in test collect
2016-05-30T01:42:56Z mfsa:     (if (equal x (last test))
2016-05-30T01:42:56Z mfsa:       (format nil "XXX")
2016-05-30T01:42:56Z mfsa:       (format nil "~A " x))))
2016-05-30T01:43:07Z mfsa: this is not working
2016-05-30T01:44:04Z zRecursive: mfsa: maybe you need to add :when or :until ?
2016-05-30T01:44:35Z zRecursive: (when (if ...)) or (until (equal x (...)))
2016-05-30T01:44:56Z mfsa: actually it's probably easier doable with (butlast '(1 2 3))
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2016-05-30T01:45:44Z edgar-rft: x is an integer and (last test) is a cons, both can never be equal
2016-05-30T01:46:20Z Bike: (loop for (x . rest) on '(1 2 2 1) when rest collect (format nil "~a " x) else collect "XXX") gives ("1 " "2 " "2 " "XXX")
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2016-05-30T01:47:02Z mfsa: nice! thanks Bike
2016-05-30T01:47:15Z mfsa: i got no clue how does that work though
2016-05-30T01:47:28Z zRecursive: (if (equal x (nth 0 (last test))) ...) ?
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2016-05-30T01:48:20Z edgar-rft: (if (equal x (first (last test))) but in principle the same
2016-05-30T01:48:26Z Bike: when you use 'on' instead of 'in' it iterates over conses, rather than elements. so (loop for s on '(1 2 2 1) collect s) => ((1 2 2 1) (2 2 1) (2 1) (1)) for example.
2016-05-30T01:49:00Z Bike: Loop allows destructuring, so instead of looping for s you loop for (x . rest), so x is the car of what s would be, i.e. the elements, while rest is the cdr of what s would be, i.e. the rest of the sublist.
2016-05-30T01:49:18Z Bike: When the rest of the sublist is null there's no more list.
2016-05-30T01:49:23Z Bike: Does that make sense?
2016-05-30T01:49:37Z mfsa: nice, thanks :) i get the idea but need to sleep with this to become more natural
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2016-05-30T02:54:26Z Polyphony: is there any recommended reading on how to use 3rd party and/or personal packages in your own projects?  I'm used to C and I miss #include statements w/ -l/-L flags :(
2016-05-30T02:55:40Z Bike: do you have quicklisp?
2016-05-30T02:55:44Z Polyphony: I've been trying to follow along in PCL but in the spam-filter example, the author isn't very clear
2016-05-30T02:55:49Z Polyphony: yessir
2016-05-30T02:56:29Z Bike: well, quickloading whatever is pretty equivalent to an include and -l.
2016-05-30T02:57:18Z papachan`: hmmm
2016-05-30T02:57:21Z Bike: The spam filter... are you referring to this defpackage bit?
2016-05-30T02:57:34Z Polyphony: yes
2016-05-30T02:59:03Z Bike: that's just a namespace definition. it says that symbols from the common-lisp and com.gigamonkeys.pathnames packages are accessible from com.gigamonkeys.spam without a package prefix.
2016-05-30T02:59:14Z Bike: chapter 21 is apparently about packages and symbols.
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2016-05-30T03:43:05Z Polyphony: is it possible to uninstall quicklisp?  I can't find it anywhere in their docs
2016-05-30T03:48:17Z Bike: deleting the directory should cover it.
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2016-05-30T04:54:54Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2016-05-30T05:33:22Z jackdaniel: good morning o/
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2016-05-30T09:54:54Z dim: is there a form allowing to install dynamic handlers other than handler-bind? I'd like to be able to have hooks installing them in a macro sometimes
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2016-05-30T09:57:17Z jackdaniel: does handler-case count?
2016-05-30T09:57:19Z igam: dim: handler-bind is the primitive.
2016-05-30T09:57:42Z igam: dim: of course, there are a lot of macro that may expand to a handler-case or a handler-bind…
2016-05-30T09:57:45Z igam: +s
2016-05-30T09:59:34Z igam: dim: restart-bind (with-simple-restart, etc) also install things in the dynamic environment.  Restarts, not handlers, though.
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2016-05-30T10:41:11Z engblom: akkad: Are you around?
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2016-05-30T11:54:44Z papachan: morning
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2016-05-30T11:56:22Z papachan: I am trying to get this string into a variable
2016-05-30T11:56:45Z papachan: because i need the result of this method to round again as a list
2016-05-30T11:56:49Z papachan: http://paste.lisp.org/display/317100
2016-05-30T11:57:13Z jackdaniel: papachan: if you want format to return string, pass NIL as a second parameter
2016-05-30T11:57:15Z jackdaniel: not T
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2016-05-30T11:57:20Z jackdaniel: first parameter°
2016-05-30T11:57:26Z jackdaniel: like (format nil "booya")
2016-05-30T11:58:57Z phoe_krk: (format nil "~A~A" "boo" "ya")
2016-05-30T11:59:11Z DeadTrickster: papachan, what's the point of the loop?
2016-05-30T11:59:28Z papachan: to get random numbers
2016-05-30T11:59:31Z DeadTrickster: x never used inside isn't it?
2016-05-30T11:59:39Z DeadTrickster: use repeat then
2016-05-30T11:59:45Z DeadTrickster: loop repeat max
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2016-05-30T12:09:00Z papachan: oh
2016-05-30T12:09:06Z papachan: format also have iteration
2016-05-30T12:09:09Z papachan: (format t "~v@{~A~:*~}" 5 "hi")
2016-05-30T12:09:46Z igam: loop repeat N do has the same effect as loop repeat 1 do if the form is idempotent!
2016-05-30T12:10:06Z igam: You can assume that it is basically useless to call random before calling random.
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2016-05-30T12:11:11Z igam: So if you transform-string function wanted to return res, it would be equivalent to (defun tranform-string (max) (declare (ignore max)) (format nil "~4,6@F " (random 1d0)))
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2016-05-30T12:12:25Z mhsjlw: what is the fastest web framework in lisp that can be used in production ?
2016-05-30T12:12:35Z mhsjlw: *common lisp
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2016-05-30T12:16:08Z igam: mhsjlw: http://eudoxia.me/article/common-lisp-sotu-2015
2016-05-30T12:16:52Z mhsjlw: thanks
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2016-05-30T12:20:55Z phoe_krk: What do you think of https://github.com/lmj/1am ?
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2016-05-30T12:30:51Z papachan: ok i have soemthing
2016-05-30T12:30:54Z papachan: http://paste.lisp.org/display/317102
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2016-05-30T12:33:04Z papachan: is that the better way to round my random decimal?
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2016-05-30T12:50:12Z DeadTrickster: papachan, probably but function name is stange
2016-05-30T12:50:15Z DeadTrickster: strange
2016-05-30T12:50:27Z DeadTrickster: usually transform-smth accepts smth
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2016-05-30T12:53:09Z papachan`: oh i see
2016-05-30T12:53:20Z papachan`: i just use this dumie name now
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2016-05-30T12:53:33Z papachan`: i will reordenate my code with correct roles
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2016-05-30T13:19:45Z igam: papachan: usually, the number of character used  for the field (the field width) is bigger than the number of decimal digits.
2016-05-30T13:20:44Z igam: papachan: (defun generate-random-strings (count) (loop repeat count collect (format nil "~6,4@F " (random 1d0)))) (generate-random-strings 3) --> ("+.7074 " "+.1506 " "+.0755 ")
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2016-05-30T13:28:40Z pavelpenev: mhsjlw: caveman2 is probably the best bet at the moment, Restas is pretty good too, but unfortunately it only supports hunchentoot, which is fine, bun not the fastest webserver. PS I'm currently working on a caveman2 ebook https://fullstacklisp.com and at this very moment I'm writing the database tutorial
2016-05-30T13:29:09Z pavelpenev: s/https/http
2016-05-30T13:29:20Z pavelpenev really needs to set up https one of these days
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2016-05-30T13:44:15Z _death: mhsjlw: committed a fix for the issue you had
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2016-05-30T14:22:33Z asti`: hello
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2016-05-30T14:23:10Z asti`: how does LISP represent strings? Is each character an integer (4 bytes) and the whole string is a list. (So each character is 8 bytes)?
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2016-05-30T14:24:06Z _death: asti: Lisp is a family of languages.. is there a specific Lisp language you want to discuss
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2016-05-30T14:24:46Z asti`: yes. the main standard is Common Lisp I think. So that implementation :)
2016-05-30T14:25:04Z asti`: _death: ^
2016-05-30T14:25:11Z splittist: CL is a standard. There are many implementations.
2016-05-30T14:25:13Z _death: asti: right, so Common Lisp is a language, and has multiple implementations.. each may choose to represent strings and characters differently.
2016-05-30T14:25:32Z asti`: okay. what about Guile Scheme :)
2016-05-30T14:25:42Z _death: asti: I'd look at the source to find out :)
2016-05-30T14:26:23Z DeadTrickster: very welcoming yet technically correct, congrats )
2016-05-30T14:26:43Z peey: And there are other lisps apart from common lisp and its various implementations as well
2016-05-30T14:27:01Z asti`: emacs lisp being the most common
2016-05-30T14:27:14Z asti`: well the one I'm using right now :)
2016-05-30T14:27:20Z White_Flame: asti`: there's a subclass called base-string, which would generally be 8-bit chars, while the default string format would likely be larger chars
2016-05-30T14:27:28Z drmeister: asti: That would be a very inefficient way to represent strings.  I would be surprised if any lisp uses that regularily
2016-05-30T14:27:35Z splittist: At a language level, strings are vectors of characters. Characters are characters*, but the standard provides a mapping from integers to characters and vice versa. In practice modern implementors tend to use 32 bit unicode codepoints (or whatever odd terminology unicode uses). (* It's slightly more complicated than this.)
2016-05-30T14:27:41Z asti`: yes. hope not
2016-05-30T14:27:57Z White_Flame: drmeister: Erlang uses (or at least used to?) store strings as cons lists of 32-bit integers
2016-05-30T14:28:33Z asti`: White_Flame: yes. plus the pointers to the next character. So it's 64 bits in total per character
2016-05-30T14:28:58Z White_Flame: on a 64-bit system, that would be at least 128 bits per char in erlang
2016-05-30T14:29:33Z asti`: which is a "disaster" as someone popular would say. hahaha
2016-05-30T14:29:52Z White_Flame: but still, you can generally trust a modern common lisp implementation to "do the right thing", and wrest specific control if you need it
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2016-05-30T14:43:56Z igam: Well, implementations supporting unicode would rather use less than 32-bit integers to encode characters, so that a few bit are left for the type tag.  I'd say 29-bit for the character code.  And if they don't expect more than the unicode character, it's probably even just 21 bits. (ceiling (log char-code-limit 2)) #| --> 21 ; -0.9125366 |#
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2016-05-30T14:49:19Z splittist: igam: fair enough.
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2016-05-30T15:10:09Z flip214: I just came across a subtle point ... when sending two forms via swank-repl:listener-eval (as in "(progn ...) (progn ...)"), a DEFMETHOD in the first one is not active for a call to the GF in the second one...
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2016-05-30T15:11:02Z flip214: Though I don't understand that yet, I thought the SYMBOL-FUNCTION of the GF gets replaced, so the symbol should be the same still -- and I get the redefinition warning before the (PRINT) output of the second form...
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2016-05-30T15:26:44Z flip214: sending as two strings works.... of course.
2016-05-30T15:27:46Z yolorious: for someone who wants to be a hacker, is SiCP a good fit?
2016-05-30T15:28:31Z White_Flame: there's a lot of different definitions of "hacker"
2016-05-30T15:28:48Z White_Flame: but in general, it has programming as a prerequisite.  SICP is about programming
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2016-05-30T15:33:47Z yolorious: White_Flame: I want to be able to make the computer do my bidding and solve any problem I want.
2016-05-30T15:33:55Z White_Flame: that's called "programming"
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2016-05-30T15:34:38Z jasom: hmm, I'm seeing a package lock violation when loading sicl-loop
2016-05-30T15:36:06Z jasom: ah, it doesn't appear to shadow loop for some reason
2016-05-30T15:36:12Z yolorious: White_Flame: So, SICP is a good fit for someone who wants to be definition #3 and #4 here - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hacker ?
2016-05-30T15:36:31Z White_Flame: If you're interested in computing & programming, then yeah, check out SICP
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2016-05-30T15:38:53Z jasom: minion: memo for beach: I have been unable to get SICL Loop to build on sbcl; first I got a package lock violation on the CL package because the defpackage didn't shadow loop, and then I got a "The value SICL-LOOP::TEMP-VAR is not of type LIST" in utilities.lisp
2016-05-30T15:38:53Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
2016-05-30T15:39:50Z yolorious: White_Flame: So it's also a good start for a noob like myself? Like, I only know some C and Python and there's not much I can do with them atm.
2016-05-30T15:40:12Z yolorious: And I hear the Lisp family is good for learning.
2016-05-30T15:40:37Z White_Flame: it's good to learn a broad variety of languages.  Lisp is different than most, so go for ti
2016-05-30T15:40:43Z jasom: yolorious: it's a college level introductory textbook; some of the examples require a basic knowledge of calculus (they use symbolic integration as one example)
2016-05-30T15:41:59Z yolorious: What will I be able to do after reading the book? Just "programming" seems a bit vague.
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2016-05-30T15:44:13Z jasom: yolorious: you will be much better equipped to solve the problems you want to solve
2016-05-30T15:44:55Z jasom: yolorious: yes it's vague, because it's a very broad field, and this is an introductory text book.  If you want to write a compiler, then you should follow SICP with a textbook on writing compilers.
2016-05-30T15:45:32Z igam: yolorious: to be an accomplished hacker, you'll have to learn at least: C, Lisp, Smalltalk, Prolog, Haskell. (and a few other derivatives from those languages, such as C++, Java, Javascript, Scheme, emacs lisp, Ruby, Python, Ocaml, etc).
2016-05-30T15:46:01Z DeadTrickster: holy cow
2016-05-30T15:46:04Z igam: yolorious: and it's no joke, a lot of jobs will REQUIRE experience in half a dozen of them and some more.
2016-05-30T15:46:33Z jasom: igam: when you say it like that it sounds more scary than it is.
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2016-05-30T15:46:50Z igam: Just having done a few exercises in prolog won't cut it, they're require X years of experience in Haskell, Prolog AND Common Lisp.  Or in Javascript, C++ AND Ruby. etc.
2016-05-30T15:47:05Z yolorious: oh my
2016-05-30T15:47:13Z jasom: furthermore very few jobs requires previous experience in more than two languages to be hired, even if it says so in their hiring documents.
2016-05-30T15:47:35Z igam: Yes, it should not be scary: when you've learn the initial list, C, lisp, smalltalk, prolog and haskell, you basically already know all the other programming languages :-)
2016-05-30T15:47:51Z White_Flame: but granted, "I want to do stuff with my computer" ≠ "I want to get a job in computing", unless you're talking about getting into security companies or whatever as "a hacker"
2016-05-30T15:48:24Z DeadTrickster: do not forget to remember which language requires semicolons lol
2016-05-30T15:48:25Z igam: And then of course, you have to learn about frameworks, protocols, systems, etc.
2016-05-30T15:48:46Z DeadTrickster: I see it already - Ruby hacker
2016-05-30T15:49:03Z jasom: yolorious: SICP gets you to the point where you are better able to learn what to do.  It's a slower approach than just diving into the deep end, but if you want to be able to do more than tread water, it's likely worth it
2016-05-30T15:49:04Z DeadTrickster: which should mean Ruby language developer isn't it?
2016-05-30T15:49:23Z igam: yolorious: it's actually quite interesting, even if there's a lot to learn, because you learn by doing and this is great fun!
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2016-05-30T15:51:05Z DeadTrickster: yolorious, don't listen to them. learn only what is needed for your goals.
2016-05-30T15:51:19Z unbalancedparen: do you know any lisp that use a hindley milner type system?
2016-05-30T15:51:29Z unbalancedparen: or similar type system?
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2016-05-30T15:53:27Z yolorious: I would like to learn Linux inside and out, for one. I'd say I'm pretty interested in compilers as well, so I'll definitely check out SICP if it touches on that.
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2016-05-30T15:55:26Z DeadTrickster: yolorious, then read C book and something like this: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596009588.do (there a lot of other books on topic, newer too)
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2016-05-30T15:56:17Z DeadTrickster: yolorious, for compilers read algorithms book first to get graphs, automata then dragon book
2016-05-30T15:56:22Z DeadTrickster: that's that simple
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2016-05-30T16:24:19Z papachan`: Oh my
2016-05-30T16:24:20Z papachan`: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA66mD-6yK8xqd5XKxzwVBIqf1d3QQXpv
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2016-05-30T16:32:06Z _death: yolorious: these days I take some time to follow https://0xax.gitbooks.io/linux-insides/content/
2016-05-30T16:33:30Z yolorious: _death: I don't know too much about Linux, honestly. Does it touch on all the basics and meanings of things. I only have a vague idea of what a kernel is, nothing too experienced.
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2016-05-30T16:34:08Z dreamaddict_: I've tried installing gentoo a couple of times
2016-05-30T16:34:15Z dreamaddict_: I am not cool enough yet for that, but almost
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2016-05-30T16:37:32Z yolorious: _death: Either way, it looks promising. I'll keep that in-mind.
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2016-05-30T16:59:02Z _death: yolorious: well, you need a lot of background knowledge to understand it... but don't be afraid to go deep :)
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2016-05-30T17:00:35Z _z: yolorious: i recommend not taking programming and your goal of "becoming a hacker" too serious, else you'll take the fun out of it.
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2016-05-30T17:01:34Z _z: though, this isnt lisp related and i rather not have off-topic discussion here.
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2016-05-30T19:13:54Z pseudo-sue: hey, I seem to be hitting a little bug with slime & sbcl. When I hit M-. on anything in the sbcl internals, it seems to work at first, but I'm taken to an empty buffer.
2016-05-30T19:14:31Z pseudo-sue: I'm guessing it's nothing too complicated to sort out, but has anyone had this issue before? It's never cropped up for me before this particular install.
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2016-05-30T19:15:42Z Xach: I haven't seen that happen locally
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2016-05-30T19:17:55Z White_Flame: might you have something funky going on with symlinks or mounted volumes between you and the sources?
2016-05-30T19:18:01Z pseudo-sue: hm... maybe it's a permissions issue. I'll try uninstalling sbcl and reinstalling through git, to a local dir.
2016-05-30T19:18:09Z pseudo-sue: yeah, that's my first guess too.
2016-05-30T19:18:39Z pseudo-sue: the weird thing is that emacs doesn't flag an error at any point. it's just like, "okay, here's print.lisp!" and hands me an empty buffer
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2016-05-30T19:20:25Z pjb: pseudo-sue: if it's a permission issue, perhaps you should erase your whole computer. go fetch a new OS, and re-install from scratch?
2016-05-30T19:21:39Z pseudo-sue: can't take chances like that. stuffing laptop into microwave now.
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2016-05-30T19:22:16Z pjb: that's the best you can do, indeed.
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2016-05-30T19:23:10Z pjb: pseudo-sue: on an emacs buffer, you can type M-: buffer-file-name RET to see the path.
2016-05-30T19:23:43Z pjb: The you can ls -l it  in the shell to see the file.  And sudo chmod it to correct the permissions.
2016-05-30T19:28:02Z pseudo-sue: yeah, I've got no problem with that. I just figured I might as well reinstall sbcl from git while I'm at it. I'd been working from the apt package on this distro, which is the only thing I'm aware of being different between this box and the box on which M-. works just fine.
2016-05-30T19:28:23Z prxq: oh yes, that's the cause.
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2016-05-30T19:28:46Z prxq: i don't know of what, but sbcl from apt is like a curse from another dimension
2016-05-30T19:28:57Z pseudo-sue: lol.
2016-05-30T19:28:58Z prxq: (well, i'm exagerating a tiny little bit)
2016-05-30T19:29:32Z pseudo-sue: I just removed it, then reinstalled it when I remembered that it's a build dep for itself. one step forward...
2016-05-30T19:29:38Z prxq: better use the releases from sbcl.org, not necessarily git HEAD, as they can actually be buggy.
2016-05-30T19:29:43Z pseudo-sue: yeah?
2016-05-30T19:30:04Z pseudo-sue: darn. I'm right in the middle of making github.com/sbcl
2016-05-30T19:30:16Z prxq: most of the time it's ok, though :-)
2016-05-30T19:30:20Z pseudo-sue: ah well. I'll just keep that in mind if bugs crop up.
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2016-05-30T19:54:34Z Bike: that happened to me before. it was apparently just because sbcl had the wrong source pathname translation things, i think sb-ext:set-sbcl-source-location was enough to fix it.
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2016-05-30T20:08:31Z aeth: ELS 2016 mentioned on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11801033
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2016-05-30T20:31:46Z dreamaddict_: hey, I have these silly macros: http://paste.lisp.org/display/317117  and I want to have the last macro to have a "dummy" keyword in the arguments, such that (this-is my-proj one two three) and (this-is my-proj :using one two three)/or (this-is my-proj :using (one two three)) are equivalent
2016-05-30T20:33:25Z Bike: meaning what, it ignores the keyword?
2016-05-30T20:33:51Z Bike: also, you will have problems with that, package names aren't always the same as system names.
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2016-05-30T20:44:31Z pseudo-sue: yep, reinstalling sbcl from git (as opposed to apt) cleared up the M-. issue in slime.
2016-05-30T20:45:57Z pseudo-sue: nice to have that working again. it's one of my favourite features of slime. (I was actually trying to show it off to someone at lambdaconf as evidence that slime is an actual, literal paradise, when i noticed that it was broken. the tears did flow.)
2016-05-30T20:48:11Z prxq: what part of M-. do you find so cool? Other environments have similar features.
2016-05-30T20:48:52Z pseudo-sue: Slime's really the only lisp environment that I'm familiar with.
2016-05-30T20:49:20Z pseudo-sue: I suppose there are similar features in some IDEs for java or whatever, but somehow they always got under my skin, so I never gave them the time of day.
2016-05-30T20:49:44Z pseudo-sue: but yeah, M-. goes way back to symbolics lisp machines, so i'm not surprised that it's a widely adopted feature
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2016-05-30T20:50:36Z pseudo-sue: do you know of any other emacs modules (for other langs) that have similar features? it would be really nice to be able to navigate libc, etc. when I'm coding in C
2016-05-30T20:50:48Z pseudo-sue: (without grepping about from the cli, I mean)
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2016-05-30T20:55:43Z prxq: pseudo-sue: yes, I do. You will need the source, of course. Shall we meet in #lispcafe?
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2016-05-30T21:04:28Z prxq: pseudo-sue: basically, there is etags, which I use as such: find . -name "*.[chCH]" -print | etags -
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2016-05-30T21:05:43Z prxq: (that's from a makefile). There is also gnu global, but I've never used it.
2016-05-30T21:06:14Z pseudo-sue: hey, missed you there. sure, strolling over to #lispcafe now
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2016-05-30T21:34:43Z sigjuice: is the code from the book OOP in COMMON LISP by Sonja E. Keene available as a download?
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2016-05-30T21:37:30Z dreamaddict_: Bike: ok then, just trying to get all of the "usual" package things into one macro
2016-05-30T21:40:33Z dreamaddict_: http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/systems.html  Is this page a "good" page for Lisp systems?  Or are they not used like that anymore...
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2016-05-30T21:54:17Z Bike: well the first part is about allegro common lisp's, like it says, and the second is mk-defsystem, which is what was before asdf.
2016-05-30T21:54:39Z Bike: so no, we've moved along.
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2016-05-30T22:07:40Z eudoxia: christ the cookbook needs to be buried
2016-05-30T22:08:03Z eudoxia: dreamaddict_: consider http://lisp-lang.org/learn/writing-libraries
2016-05-30T22:09:43Z phoe_krk: eudoxia: hey
2016-05-30T22:09:46Z eudoxia: yo
2016-05-30T22:09:50Z phoe_krk: I'll ping you but I'm falling asleep
2016-05-30T22:09:51Z dreamaddict_: eudoxia: thank you
2016-05-30T22:09:51Z phoe_krk: night
2016-05-30T22:09:56Z eudoxia: ok
2016-05-30T22:10:04Z eudoxia: dreamaddict_: hey yw
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2016-05-30T22:21:35Z dreamaddict_: ok I am giving quickproject a try, I created a quickproject that uses the libs '(cl-who hunchentoot parenscript), and then (ql:quickload)ed it.  that's all good.  But...when I type into the main .lisp file to add some code, none of the definitions in cl-who, or any of the dependencies, will autocomplete.
2016-05-30T22:22:09Z dreamaddict_: so...is there a command to quickload all of the dependencies of a project?  I thought quickproject would take care of that, but apparently not.
2016-05-30T22:22:33Z eudoxia: are you sure cl-who isn't loaded?
2016-05-30T22:22:40Z eudoxia: (find-package :cl-who) will tell you
2016-05-30T22:23:19Z dreamaddict_: it finds it
2016-05-30T22:23:34Z dreamaddict_: fuzzy completion doesn't complete it, though...
2016-05-30T22:23:51Z eudoxia: huh
2016-05-30T22:24:29Z dreamaddict_: yeah I have no clue how fuzzy completion works
2016-05-30T22:25:16Z dreamaddict_: so far quickproject is great though
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2016-05-30T22:28:50Z dreamaddict_: just tried compiling a function in the main .lisp file buffer (slime), and none of the definitions from cl-who were recognized...
2016-05-30T22:29:05Z pjb: fuzzy completion is implemented by slime, not by quickproject, so…
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2016-05-30T22:29:34Z dreamaddict_: yes but then I do wonder: how does fuzzy completion get info about your code?
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2016-05-30T22:29:56Z dreamaddict_: if I quickload a "regular" project, it sees everything...
2016-05-30T22:30:03Z pjb: dreamaddict_: it looks inside the image connected to slime.
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2016-05-30T22:30:22Z pjb: So you need to (quick)load your project to have those definitions available to swank\slime.
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2016-05-30T22:30:41Z pjb: quickload loads the dependencies automatically.
2016-05-30T22:30:47Z dreamaddict_: that is the first thing that I did
2016-05-30T22:30:55Z dreamaddict_: (quickload my new project)
2016-05-30T22:31:10Z dreamaddict_: but none of the dependencies of the project were quickloaded, apparently
2016-05-30T22:31:25Z pjb: So completion should work.  Now perhaps you're missing a in-package form in your file, or a (:use ...) clause in your defpackage form?
2016-05-30T22:31:34Z dreamaddict_: this was made by quickproject
2016-05-30T22:31:40Z pjb: Good.
2016-05-30T22:31:41Z dreamaddict_: it's on that dude if this is missing anything :P
2016-05-30T22:32:14Z dreamaddict_: it has packages.lisp, [my-project].asd, [my-project].lisp, and a README.md
2016-05-30T22:32:16Z pjb: ANd do you do (slime-setup '( … slime-fuzzy …)) in ~/.emacs?
2016-05-30T22:32:41Z dreamaddict_: yes
2016-05-30T22:33:00Z pjb: Then I would expect it to work.
2016-05-30T22:33:03Z dreamaddict_: me too
2016-05-30T22:33:34Z pjb: You use M-TAB to try to complete?
2016-05-30T22:34:17Z dreamaddict_: oh there it is in the list
2016-05-30T22:34:22Z dreamaddict_: but it has absolutely no flags on it
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2016-05-30T22:34:44Z pjb: Perhaps because only the package has been loaded, but not the file with the definitions?
2016-05-30T22:35:03Z dreamaddict_: this is the part of packages in Lisp that I am very stupid on
2016-05-30T22:35:12Z dreamaddict_: actually, most of it
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2016-05-30T22:36:05Z pjb: If you've modified your sources, reload them, or re-quickload your system in the REPL to ensure everything is up to date.
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2016-05-30T22:39:41Z dreamaddict_: OK:  I saved my source file with one function definition inside of it, using who from cl-who.  Then re-quickloaded my project...an error was signaled in UIOP while compiling, because of an "illegal function definition" stemming from none of the cl-who symbols being recognized
2016-05-30T22:39:56Z dreamaddict_: maybe the part that lists the dependencies isn't working like I think it is
2016-05-30T22:40:03Z dreamaddict_: I don't know how it works, or how it is supposed to...
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2016-05-30T22:45:35Z dreamaddict_: ok I think I have it
2016-05-30T22:45:49Z dreamaddict_: I didn't pay attention to which library was loaded in the REPL
2016-05-30T22:46:23Z dreamaddict_: still the function with cl-who symbols will not compile, even if the REPL is in my new project...
2016-05-30T22:47:45Z dreamaddict_: oh, it does not put my depends-on libs into packages.lisp where it declares :use
2016-05-30T22:47:54Z dreamaddict_: why would it be like that, I wonder
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2016-05-30T23:50:55Z dreamaddict_: ok so, with quickproject I have to use qualifiers before every outside function call (cl-who:with-html-output, instead of with-html-output)
2016-05-30T23:51:49Z dreamaddict_: and it looks like either I tell it to "shadow" (???) the cl-who names so that they don't need the qualifier, or manually "export" or something the symbols that I want to use without it
2016-05-30T23:51:57Z dreamaddict_: is that anywhere close to right...?
2016-05-30T23:52:09Z Bike: the shadow part seems wrong
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2016-05-30T23:52:50Z Bike: cl-who already exports the symbols you want, probably. you just need your package to "use" the cl-who package.
2016-05-30T23:53:50Z dreamaddict_: one sec
2016-05-30T23:55:20Z papachan`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqwuIfl-G1w
2016-05-30T23:55:37Z dreamaddict_: I had tried that before and it gave me something like, "CL-WHO::[func] is clashing with MY-PROJECT::[func]"
2016-05-30T23:55:44Z papachan`: where i can find more info about SuperCollider, CL-OpenGL, Varjo ?
2016-05-30T23:55:46Z dreamaddict_: it asked me if I wanted to shadow the new symbols or not
2016-05-30T23:55:50Z Bike: right, ok.
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2016-05-30T23:56:39Z Bike: So what happened was you tried to use "with-html-output", unqualified, before you used the cl-who package. That made the reader assume you wanted with-html-output to be a new symbol in your package, so it made that, and now there's a conflict.
2016-05-30T23:57:02Z Bike: Easiest thing to do is restart your lisp image. Second easiest is to say you want to use the cl-who symbols when that error comes up.
2016-05-30T23:57:06Z dreamaddict_: right, because when I first built it I didn't include cl-who in :use
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2016-05-30T23:57:23Z dreamaddict_: nothing is in there by default...why is that?
2016-05-30T23:57:26Z dreamaddict_: (except :cl)
2016-05-30T23:57:35Z Bike: Nothing in :use, you mean?
2016-05-30T23:57:42Z dreamaddict_: only (:use :cl)
2016-05-30T23:57:56Z dreamaddict_: even though I created the project with other ql dependencies
2016-05-30T23:58:32Z Bike: well, like i mentioned, packages can have different names from systems. a system might even define multiple packages.
2016-05-30T23:59:13Z dreamaddict_: ok but...if I put "regular" quicklisp libs into :use, that is fine (the kosher way to do it)
2016-05-30T23:59:14Z Bike: you also might not want to :use a package from a system you depend on, because of a conflict like yours but actual.
2016-05-30T23:59:21Z dreamaddict_: right
2016-05-30T23:59:40Z dreamaddict_: in that case you would deal with only the bits you want manually...something like that
2016-05-30T23:59:43Z Bike: quickproject doesn't bother with these complications and just has you add what you want to, i suppose.