2016-02-27T00:01:11Z ZombieChicken joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:01:41Z ZombieChicken: Are there any shortcomings with ECL's ANSI compliance? I seem to recall such, but I'm not 100% sure if I'm not confusing it with another CL implementation 2016-02-27T00:02:05Z |3b| hasn't heard of any, might be thinking of gcl? 2016-02-27T00:02:46Z ZombieChicken: ECL Embeddable Common Lisp 2016-02-27T00:02:58Z |3b|: right 2016-02-27T00:03:27Z ZombieChicken: It's meant to be embedded in other programs and can compile Lisp to C 2016-02-27T00:04:15Z nullFxn joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:04:27Z tfm quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-02-27T00:06:03Z jasom: ZombieChicken: |3b| was saying that he isn't aware of any ANSI compliance issues; he definitely has heard of ECL 2016-02-27T00:06:25Z jasom: ZombieChicken: and gcl is of similar ancestry to ECL, and does have a history of ANSI compliance issues 2016-02-27T00:06:25Z ZombieChicken: ah, okay 2016-02-27T00:06:31Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2016-02-27T00:06:51Z ZombieChicken: I'm thinking I was mixing up ECL and the GNU CL implementation since I was originally looking at the two at roughly the same time 2016-02-27T00:07:04Z ZombieChicken: or something like that 2016-02-27T00:07:07Z ZombieChicken: Thanks for the info guys 2016-02-27T00:07:09Z ZombieChicken quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 2016-02-27T00:08:42Z fewdea joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:11:10Z p_l: GCL is the one with history of ANSI incompatibility 2016-02-27T00:16:55Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:17:04Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T00:17:24Z em_ is now known as em 2016-02-27T00:20:34Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-02-27T00:22:29Z mogunus joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:24:08Z abunai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T00:24:21Z abunai joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:26:12Z tfm joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:26:46Z tfm: Style question: is it preferred to use the backtick or an explicit list call when writing code? 2016-02-27T00:27:47Z |3b|: depends on the code 2016-02-27T00:29:22Z abunai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-02-27T00:29:45Z tfm: A function which returns a list of a couple values and a variable, for example. For things like making a list of 2 variables, my gut says backtick looks ugly. For this, though, I'm unsure. 2016-02-27T00:29:58Z |3b|: (list a b c) is good with list, (list 'foo 'bar a 'foo) might be better with backtick, (list 'progn (list 'print (list '+ a '2))) should probably be backticks 2016-02-27T00:30:13Z dreamaddict quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T00:30:37Z |3b|: but if you want the result to be modifiable by whoever uses it later, don't use backtick, since parts of it might be considered 'literal' data by the compiler 2016-02-27T00:31:05Z tfm: So, if I don't want someone to modify the result, it depends on the symbol to variable ratio? That makes sense to me. Thanks. 2016-02-27T00:31:42Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T00:33:11Z fiddlerwoaroof: It probably also depends on the number of times you'll have to call list-building functions to get the result you want. 2016-02-27T00:33:38Z |3b|: more about amount of complexity that would be removed than specifically symbols, with quoting being a special case of the complexity (but not a particular complex case since we have ' ) 2016-02-27T00:33:42Z fiddlerwoaroof: (list (list 1 2 3 a b) (list 2 3 4 c d)) looks worse to me than `((1 2 3 ,a ,b) (2 3 4 ,c ,d)) 2016-02-27T00:34:29Z TMM joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:34:33Z |3b|: particularly once you get into things involving ,@ which gets messy pretty quickly to do manually 2016-02-27T00:34:49Z tfm: I'll bear that in mind. Thanks for the answer. Lisp's a fun language, but it can be a little difficult to find style advice. I'll need to get back into PAIP to read the code examples. 2016-02-27T00:35:09Z fiddlerwoaroof: https://google.github.io/styleguide/lispguide.xml 2016-02-27T00:36:06Z tfm: fiddlerwoaroof: I actually have that open. I couldn't see mention of backtick vs (list ...), though. 2016-02-27T00:36:32Z fiddlerwoaroof: tfm: I was just mentioning it as a handy reference for a sane style. 2016-02-27T00:36:53Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:37:04Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T00:37:35Z tfm: fiddlerwoaroof: I know. I'll need to rebookmark it; I lost my bookmarks folder a couple weeks ago. 2016-02-27T00:39:03Z oleo_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:39:07Z malbertife_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-02-27T00:40:22Z tfm: I've actually seen code in the wild which fits into the "very bad" example of horizontal whitespace. I don't know how people do it. 2016-02-27T00:40:31Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T00:42:13Z fiddlerwoaroof: _I_ think the rules about closing parentheses need a bit more nuance. 2016-02-27T00:42:50Z fiddlerwoaroof: In some cases, where you have a list of things that might need to be extended (i.e. :depends-on in a system definition), it's handy to have the closing parens of the list on their own line. 2016-02-27T00:43:20Z axion: are we discussing '() vs (list)? 2016-02-27T00:43:36Z |3b|: `() 2016-02-27T00:44:07Z Fare joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:44:07Z axion: ok because i learned a good lesson the other day regarding the above 2016-02-27T00:44:23Z EvW joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:44:29Z tfm: What was it? 2016-02-27T00:45:00Z oleo_ is now known as oleo 2016-02-27T00:45:25Z axion: it is undefined what happens when an implementation destructively modifies a lisp literal such as '(), #(), etc 2016-02-27T00:46:22Z theta888 quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-02-27T00:48:37Z Xach quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T00:48:41Z jasom: I always wondered if #.(make-list ...) counts as a literal for those purposes 2016-02-27T00:48:53Z Xach joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:48:59Z jasom: I think so because it would be referenced directly in the program rather than being computed by the program 2016-02-27T00:49:13Z waron joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:50:10Z _z joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:50:14Z |3b| thinks anything returned by the reader is "literal" 2016-02-27T00:50:27Z |3b|: including all of the conses involved in the source 2016-02-27T00:51:39Z |3b|: (so don't destructively modify the input to macros either) 2016-02-27T00:54:21Z axion: i spent a good few hours trying to debug why alexandria:rotate was corrupting lists until i realized they were literal 2016-02-27T00:54:50Z axion: on sbcl at least 2016-02-27T00:55:18Z jasom: I'm somewhat surprised that there isn't a non-destructive rotate 2016-02-27T00:55:38Z jasom: perhaps it is most efficiently implemented with (rotate (copy-sequence ...)) 2016-02-27T00:55:43Z fiddlerwoaroof: sort is the one that generally gets me. 2016-02-27T00:56:03Z lisse joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:56:53Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T00:57:04Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T00:57:40Z |3b|: there are some places where "similar" lists are specified to get merged during compile-file i think, so the risk is portable 2016-02-27T00:58:53Z |3b|: specific implementations or tools might make it worse of course, imagine destructively modifying a list that shares structure with the source in a CL-hosted editor :) 2016-02-27T01:04:22Z nullFxn quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-02-27T01:04:38Z lisse quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-02-27T01:06:54Z Xal joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:07:30Z wilornel joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:09:21Z wilornel: Hey guys! I just decided to dive into common lisp by reading "Practical Common Lisp"! In the second chapter, Seibel suggests LispBox. However, the LispBox page on his website mentions that he has stopped maintaining the package. On the LispBox website, the latest update was in 2011. Anyone have any recommendations on what other similar tools to check out and maybe some other more up-to-date readings? 2016-02-27T01:10:17Z wilornel: (let me know if my message cut of somehwere. That seems to happen when I write too long messages. I don't know how to remedy this) 2016-02-27T01:11:19Z oleo: wth either use LispWorks (pro package) or some of the free alternatives 2016-02-27T01:11:40Z badkins joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:11:46Z tfm: Emacs+SLIME with your favourite Lisp and some extensions like smartparens is the usual free software alternative. 2016-02-27T01:12:29Z Robdgreat_ is now known as Robdgreat 2016-02-27T01:12:36Z Robdgreat quit (Changing host) 2016-02-27T01:12:36Z Robdgreat joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:12:39Z wilornel: I just got SLIME. I'll get smartparens now 2016-02-27T01:12:50Z axion: and sane irc clients will adhere to the rfc and continue lines longer than 512 to a new message 2016-02-27T01:13:13Z wilornel: I mean, ListBox was wostly bundling many packages together right? Has anyone tried to work with these many packages without LispBox gluing them together? 2016-02-27T01:13:28Z Passer_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:13:58Z wilornel: axion: Hmmm maybe irssi is not good enough, then. Thanks for letting me know! I should check out the RFC next time. Are there resources where I can find clients/software that adheres to a given RFC that you know of? 2016-02-27T01:14:04Z Passer quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T01:14:05Z wilornel: LispBox* 2016-02-27T01:14:34Z oleo: try Xchat, HexChat etc... 2016-02-27T01:14:36Z axion: wilornel: if you like irssi, you may love weechat. but a bit off-topic so...back to code 2016-02-27T01:14:52Z wilornel: (axion: thanks!) 2016-02-27T01:14:59Z wilornel: (oleo, thank you also!) 2016-02-27T01:15:00Z rme left #lisp 2016-02-27T01:15:02Z tfm: Let's see...for Lisp I use Emacs/SLIME with smartparens, rainbow-delimiters, show-paren-mode [builtin], and windmove for convenience. 2016-02-27T01:15:16Z oleo: wilornel: there's also a emacs side client 2016-02-27T01:15:39Z tfm: I'm thinking of using ido-mode instead of helm so I can use SLIME's Lisp selection list for when I'm not using abcl. 2016-02-27T01:15:46Z wilornel: (oleo: Yep! Slowly migrating some of my utilities to emacs atm) 2016-02-27T01:16:12Z axion: i use helm with slime (well actually sly) just fine 2016-02-27T01:16:23Z oleo: wilornel: however i don't use much emacs anymore, don't want to dabble with elisp much.... 2016-02-27T01:16:39Z fiddlerwoaroof: wilornel: if you're not already familiar with emacs, Lispworks has a free personal edition that might be easier to get started with. 2016-02-27T01:16:49Z tfm: You need to pass a prefix argument to M-x in order to get the list up. Helm-M-x doesn't like that. 2016-02-27T01:16:55Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:17:00Z oleo: wilornel: i switched to the cl pendant of it based on mcclim and climacs 2016-02-27T01:17:04Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T01:17:17Z tfm: Note that personal Lispworks has a 5 hour session limit on it. 2016-02-27T01:17:21Z oleo: wilornel: however i can't recommend it to novices...... 2016-02-27T01:17:29Z tanderson11 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-02-27T01:17:39Z oleo: wilornel: and even professionals will have to fight with it...... 2016-02-27T01:17:40Z axion: tfm: you supply the prefix after helm-M-x 2016-02-27T01:17:50Z fiddlerwoaroof has felt like buying a Lispworks/Allegro license several times, just because. 2016-02-27T01:17:51Z axion: but i am not doing it that way, so i am not sure 2016-02-27T01:17:52Z oleo: wilornel: for my purposes its ok so far...... 2016-02-27T01:18:22Z Passer_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-02-27T01:18:29Z tfm: axion: Thanks for that. I may still use ido-mode on my laptop because Emacs is slow to start, even with the ConnectTimeout=1 fix. 2016-02-27T01:18:42Z tfm: Same config as my desktop, it's strange. 2016-02-27T01:18:48Z Passer joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:19:06Z oleo: tfm: sometimes you have to undo configs..... 2016-02-27T01:19:12Z axion: you may want to switch to use-package and defer loading or whatnot 2016-02-27T01:20:02Z tfm: I'll see if that fixes it. Thanks for the suggestion, axion. 2016-02-27T01:20:04Z axion: also the default garbage collection values can be tweaked to decrease load time 2016-02-27T01:20:47Z oleo: tfm: have a look on the net, for sample configs of some people..... 2016-02-27T01:20:51Z wilornel: oleo: I am ready to fight with some tools! I want to learn more and be productive! 2016-02-27T01:20:52Z oleo: tfm: sometimes it helps 2016-02-27T01:21:19Z fiddlerwoaroof would also suggest slimv + vim 2016-02-27T01:21:22Z wilornel: Also, for those mentioning proficiency, I would consider myself between beginner and intermediate, whatever that can mean in the world of emacs 2016-02-27T01:21:23Z oleo: wilornel: afaik Beach is onto some new spec for mcclim 2016-02-27T01:22:03Z axion: i used vim+slimv for 6 years, only recently switching to emacs, and i was missing a lot 2016-02-27T01:22:09Z wilornel: Unfortunately I need to take a nap atm. I'll be back in ~3 hours. I'll log what everyone here mentioned for later! Thanks tfm, axion, olea, fiddlerwoaroof! 2016-02-27T01:22:11Z oleo: wilornel: however it's not done, and the old mcclim spec is spread with inconsistencies and blanks..... 2016-02-27T01:22:32Z oleo: wilornel: and mcclim is big, and it's official pendant is called the clim spec 2.0 2016-02-27T01:22:56Z tfm: I really can't imagine hacking Lisp in anything but Emacs. C-c C-c is too natural to me now. 2016-02-27T01:23:02Z oleo: wilornel: really not sure if you can use it, it's much oop style..... 2016-02-27T01:23:29Z oleo: wilornel: fixing stuff is not easy, and even the pristine code has some logic flaws at least with some defaults 2016-02-27T01:24:16Z oleo: wilornel: you'll have to reach much of it's code to get a feel for it, but even that does not suffice..... 2016-02-27T01:24:18Z wilornel: oleo: Oh, if a broken software is the issue then I might not consider it. If it's quality software then I will consider it, even if it is hard to learn! 2016-02-27T01:24:22Z oleo: s/reach/read/ 2016-02-27T01:24:37Z wilornel: Reading the code is also not an issue, I see that as an interesting part of learning 2016-02-27T01:24:42Z oleo: wilornel: well it works at least partially..... 2016-02-27T01:24:50Z oleo: wilornel: can't say it's broken 2016-02-27T01:25:09Z jason_m joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:25:10Z oleo: wilornel: however it's not high-quality like you'd expect i think 2016-02-27T01:25:26Z oleo: wilornel: better stay with emacs just then 2016-02-27T01:25:47Z oleo: wilornel: i stood with emacs for a while too, a few years 2016-02-27T01:26:25Z oleo: wilornel: i'm doin fixing etc for learning purposes + getting experience (if i can) 2016-02-27T01:26:37Z oleo: wilornel: i can't fix everything 2016-02-27T01:26:54Z oleo: wilornel: some stuff is really beyond my understandings so far..... 2016-02-27T01:27:25Z oleo: wilornel: one would have to have contact with the original team who wrote it or so...... 2016-02-27T01:28:52Z pjb`: wilornel: lispbox is not maintained anymore because quicklisp is a better solution. 2016-02-27T01:29:26Z pjb`: wilornel: you can consider that installing ccl or sbcl, and quicklisp fulfills the role of lispbox and more. 2016-02-27T01:31:59Z tanderson11 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:32:14Z nate_c quit 2016-02-27T01:34:02Z waron quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.1) 2016-02-27T01:36:56Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:37:05Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T01:37:27Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T01:38:23Z raoulvdberge quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2016-02-27T01:44:46Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:46:09Z mogunus quit (Quit: mogunus) 2016-02-27T01:46:33Z mogunus joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:47:11Z mogunus quit (Client Quit) 2016-02-27T01:49:17Z iloveunix joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:54:22Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T01:56:57Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T01:57:06Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T01:57:17Z tfm quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2016-02-27T01:59:10Z dmiles joined #lisp 2016-02-27T02:04:14Z aap_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T02:05:32Z sweater_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-02-27T02:06:33Z asc232 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T02:07:09Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T02:07:28Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-02-27T02:08:36Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-02-27T02:11:21Z Bike quit (Quit: road trip) 2016-02-27T02:14:44Z briantrice quit (Quit: briantrice) 2016-02-27T02:16:59Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T02:17:06Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T02:18:17Z warweasle joined #lisp 2016-02-27T02:22:43Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-02-27T02:24:08Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T02:24:54Z karswell joined #lisp 2016-02-27T02:32:48Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T02:36:54Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T02:37:06Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T02:40:46Z Xal quit (Quit: restart) 2016-02-27T02:41:01Z Xal joined #lisp 2016-02-27T02:55:55Z briantrice joined #lisp 2016-02-27T02:56:55Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T02:57:07Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T02:58:54Z rodolfowtf joined #lisp 2016-02-27T03:02:52Z pjb` joined #lisp 2016-02-27T03:04:14Z _z quit (Quit: = "") 2016-02-27T03:08:58Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-02-27T03:09:00Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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2016-02-27T09:49:44Z almih joined #lisp 2016-02-27T09:53:39Z DeadTrickster: and first line of 3.1 We instead of we. but maybe this intentional 2016-02-27T09:57:03Z splittist: beach: 2.2 "unconforming"? 2016-02-27T10:05:14Z haom joined #lisp 2016-02-27T10:07:53Z futpib joined #lisp 2016-02-27T10:10:15Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T10:11:49Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2016-02-27T10:13:39Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-02-27T10:13:44Z varjag joined #lisp 2016-02-27T10:13:59Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T10:19:07Z smokeink joined #lisp 2016-02-27T10:21:04Z wglb` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-02-27T10:21:52Z gmcastil joined #lisp 2016-02-27T10:24:09Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-02-27T10:24:25Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2016-02-27T10:30:00Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T10:31:26Z HDurer quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-02-27T10:37:00Z defaultxr quit 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2016-02-27T11:19:16Z papachan joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:19:41Z JitanRo joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:21:03Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:25:56Z beach joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:26:09Z william3 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T11:26:11Z beach: G'day everyone! 2016-02-27T11:27:08Z beach: splittist: Thanks for the remarks. I don't think any additional work on the paper at this point will influence a decision by the referees, so I am going to lay low. I'll take more remarks of course, but I may not incorporate them before submitting. 2016-02-27T11:27:51Z beach: DeadTrickster: How would you like to be referred to in the acknowledgments? 2016-02-27T11:28:08Z beach: DeadTrickster: And, thanks for spotting that! 2016-02-27T11:28:23Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:29:07Z saureb joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:29:27Z arquebus quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-02-27T11:30:19Z DeadTrickster: beach, nohow it was just a tiny typo. 2016-02-27T11:30:51Z beach: OK, up to you. It doesn't cost anything to include you though, so let me know if you change your mind. 2016-02-27T11:35:39Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:36:20Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:36:59Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:37:12Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T11:37:12Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T11:39:40Z Beluki joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:44:11Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:51:28Z oceanpollen joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:51:37Z beach: There, submitted! Thanks to everyone for taking the time to review the paper. 2016-02-27T11:54:07Z beach: Speaking of writing papers and such, I recently started reading a book that I can highly recommend to anyone in the business of such writing, in particular if you are writing in English: http://stevenpinker.com/publications/sense-style-thinking-persons-guide-writing-21st-century 2016-02-27T11:55:34Z _z: beach: what kind of paper are you writing? 2016-02-27T11:56:09Z beach: _z: I just finished a paper on the SICL implementation of the LOOP macro, that I submitted to ELS 2016 a few minutes ago. 2016-02-27T11:56:25Z jackdaniel: beach: congrtas on finishing the paper :-) 2016-02-27T11:56:34Z beach: jackdaniel: Thanks! 2016-02-27T11:56:43Z _z: ELS? SICL? 2016-02-27T11:56:46Z _z is a newbie 2016-02-27T11:56:48Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-02-27T11:56:54Z jackdaniel: _z: ELS - european lisp symposium 2016-02-27T11:56:57Z beach: minion: Please tell _z about SICL. 2016-02-27T11:56:57Z minion: _z: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL 2016-02-27T11:57:01Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T11:57:03Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T11:57:07Z jackdaniel: and that :) 2016-02-27T11:57:12Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T11:57:31Z _z: Thanks jackdaniel, beach 2016-02-27T11:57:32Z DeadTrickster: speaking of SICL, any adoption plans? maybe ECL :-) 2016-02-27T11:57:41Z beach: _z: http://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/ 2016-02-27T11:58:13Z beach: DeadTrickster: Not sure what you are asking. Clasp is the main client at the moment. It uses the Cleavir compiler framework. 2016-02-27T11:58:39Z DeadTrickster: ah clasp 2016-02-27T11:58:49Z jackdaniel: DeadTrickster: actually I plan to dig a bit SICL, but for ECL it would be only useful as another compiler backend, since ECL is boostrapped from C 2016-02-27T11:59:09Z beach: DeadTrickster: But I am also working on a separate SICL implementation, entirely written in Common Lisp. 2016-02-27T11:59:25Z jackdaniel: beach: I was going to ask: what would you recommend as an entry point for SICL groking? 2016-02-27T12:00:34Z beach: jackdaniel: Hard to say. I would think it depends on which aspect(s) you are interested in. 2016-02-27T12:00:52Z beach: Like, you can skip CLOS if you are not interested in it at the moment. 2016-02-27T12:01:21Z beach: Modules are quite independent: LOOP, FORMAT, Cleavir, the reader, etc. 2016-02-27T12:01:27Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T12:01:41Z jackdaniel: mostly Cleavir I suppose 2016-02-27T12:01:54Z beach: Ah, OK. 2016-02-27T12:02:10Z beach: I would say start with the first pass then; turning code into ASTs. 2016-02-27T12:02:17Z kobain joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:02:21Z haom joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:02:52Z beach: As I recall, it is in the Generate-AST subdirectory, and in Abstract-syntax-tree for the definitions of the AST classes. 2016-02-27T12:03:14Z jackdaniel: OK, thanks 2016-02-27T12:03:48Z beach: Sure. And be careful. There is a lot of unused code in the repository. It may be removed one day. 2016-02-27T12:03:59Z beach: So ask before you dive too deeply into something. 2016-02-27T12:04:29Z jackdaniel: beach: I'm mainly going to study it and learn :) 2016-02-27T12:04:39Z jackdaniel: right, will do 2016-02-27T12:04:45Z beach: Sounds good to me. :) 2016-02-27T12:05:26Z _z: wait so, you plan to re-iplement common lisp in common lisp, beach? 'SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch' ... 'SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch' 2016-02-27T12:05:45Z beach: _z: That's the plan, yes. 2016-02-27T12:05:56Z jackdaniel: _z: most Common Lisps are implemented in Common Lisp :) 2016-02-27T12:06:05Z _z: my brain hurts 2016-02-27T12:06:16Z jackdaniel: _z: take GCC, in what language it's written in? 2016-02-27T12:06:29Z beach: _z: It is only a little more complicated than standard bootstrapping with other languages. 2016-02-27T12:06:31Z _z: C I believe 2016-02-27T12:06:39Z jackdaniel: _z: how do they compile GCC? 2016-02-27T12:06:56Z _z: huh, i dont know. 2016-02-27T12:07:03Z jackdaniel: well, they use older GCC 2016-02-27T12:07:05Z jackdaniel: obviously 2016-02-27T12:07:06Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:07:08Z beach: _z: Using a C compiler. 2016-02-27T12:07:12Z DeadTrickster: :-) 2016-02-27T12:07:14Z jackdaniel: or using other C compiler 2016-02-27T12:07:48Z DeadTrickster: whats the difference between say sbcl and sicl? 2016-02-27T12:07:56Z DeadTrickster: sbcl has C runtime right 2016-02-27T12:08:16Z beach: _z: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping_%28compilers%29 2016-02-27T12:08:20Z ggole_: I believe gcc uses GNU extensions, and there is a bootstrapping process 2016-02-27T12:08:42Z _z: sorry for the newbie questions, im new to programming and lisp heh. 2016-02-27T12:09:05Z beach: DeadTrickster: Several things. In SICL, there is more use of generic functions, and it has a better implementation of generic dispatch. 2016-02-27T12:09:19Z beach: _z: Bootstrapping is not specific to Lisp. 2016-02-27T12:10:27Z beach: DeadTrickster: And the Cleavir compiler framework is meant to be usable to other implementations, whereas most implementations have compilers that are tightly coupled with that particular implementation. 2016-02-27T12:10:43Z DeadTrickster: beach, if I load SICL into sbcl and dump the core? sbcl has tons of assembly code and other optimizations 2016-02-27T12:10:49Z beach: In the process, the code for Cleavir becomes more portable and more maintainable. 2016-02-27T12:11:20Z EvW joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:11:55Z beach: DeadTrickster: SICL is not finished, first of all. The plan is that running the SICL bootstrapping code in (say) SBCL will generate a shared library and an executable. 2016-02-27T12:12:05Z beach: At least if it is supposed to run on Linux. 2016-02-27T12:12:17Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-02-27T12:12:27Z beach: But naturally, the code generator contains some machine-specific code. 2016-02-27T12:12:58Z DeadTrickster: ah ok I always thought sicl is just drop-in replacement for common-lisp package 2016-02-27T12:13:02Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:14:06Z beach: Right, there is a bit of a confusion there. I use SICL to mean two things: 1. a collection of modules that should be usable to any implementation, and 2. A complete and separate Common Lisp implementation. 2016-02-27T12:14:21Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:14:45Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-02-27T12:14:53Z beach: ggole_: I think you are right about that. 2016-02-27T12:15:08Z jackdaniel: it looks like a partial reincarnation on the Portable Common Lisp module 2016-02-27T12:15:15Z arquebus joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:15:43Z jackdaniel: (I'm not talking about the actual implementation, just the idea) 2016-02-27T12:16:03Z Xach: blue pages 2016-02-27T12:17:03Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:17:12Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T12:17:26Z arquebus quit (Client Quit) 2016-02-27T12:19:53Z Xach_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:20:14Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T12:21:37Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-02-27T12:27:07Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-02-27T12:28:00Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:28:23Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:29:11Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T12:29:23Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:30:22Z zacharias joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:30:28Z sjl joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:32:27Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T12:32:41Z haom: so the main goal of of SICL is to make Lisp a *.so, in order to make lisp "executables" appear smaller when compiling hello world? 2016-02-27T12:34:20Z beach: haom: No, the main goal of SICL is to serve as a basis for a LispOS, but for the version of it that is meant to run on current OSes, I am thinking of doing it that way. 2016-02-27T12:35:41Z jackdaniel: haom: you already have lisp as a *.so file 2016-02-27T12:35:48Z haom: I'm asking because on r/lisp there was just another annoying discussion of "Y lisp executables so big, Lisp bad". 2016-02-27T12:36:11Z jackdaniel: haom: ECL has small executables and compiles to the shared object 2016-02-27T12:36:22Z beach: haom: I am a great fan of avoiding such discussions rather than trying to participate in them. 2016-02-27T12:36:24Z haom: jack, I have left that phase a few years ago. ;) 2016-02-27T12:36:28Z jackdaniel: but isn't as-blazing-fast as some of other implementation 2016-02-27T12:36:36Z jackdaniel: haom: which phase? 2016-02-27T12:36:42Z Nikotiini joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:36:47Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-02-27T12:36:55Z haom: beach, you have my respect, I cant. 2016-02-27T12:37:01Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:37:12Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T12:37:20Z beach: haom: You can't? Why not? 2016-02-27T12:37:25Z haom: jack, of looking at lisp from "just another compiler" point of view. 2016-02-27T12:37:39Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T12:38:01Z jackdaniel doesn't understand 2016-02-27T12:38:03Z haom: beach, I dont know, I'm not patient enough? 2016-02-27T12:38:16Z jackdaniel: you say that CL can't create .so files and executables are big, I simply assert it's not true 2016-02-27T12:38:51Z beach: jackdaniel: To be fair, I don't think haom said that. 2016-02-27T12:39:01Z beach: Just that there was recently another discussion about it. 2016-02-27T12:39:19Z haom: another discussion that was bad for my blood pressure. 2016-02-27T12:39:27Z jackdaniel: mhm 2016-02-27T12:39:35Z pseudo_sue joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:39:38Z beach: haom: This discussion has been going on for decades. If it is important to you, take a few years and figure out how to make SBCL generate a .so. 2016-02-27T12:40:15Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T12:40:15Z haom: beach, as I said, i have left that phase a while ago. 2016-02-27T12:40:31Z haom: now i'm annoyed when other people ask the same questions I did. 2016-02-27T12:41:04Z beach: haom: That is exactly what I meant. You can make a huge contribution to the Common Lisp community by fixing this problem in SBCL (for instance). 2016-02-27T12:41:52Z haom: I think the biggest contribution a single person can make is writing exclusive libraries and apps. 2016-02-27T12:42:05Z haom: no "porting" lisp to other systems. 2016-02-27T12:42:11Z oceanpollen: seems like they were satisfied by "use ecl", though 2016-02-27T12:43:06Z beach: Indeed. But then some people will have other complaints instead. 2016-02-27T12:45:49Z remi`bd joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:56:05Z DeadTrickster: current my sbcl production image is like 300 Mb 2016-02-27T12:56:12Z Beluki quit (Quit: Beluki) 2016-02-27T12:56:15Z DeadTrickster: around 20-25 bzipped 2016-02-27T12:56:22Z DeadTrickster: I'm fine with it ) 2016-02-27T12:57:00Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T12:57:12Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T12:58:41Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T13:00:18Z kothawale joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:00:31Z kothawale left #lisp 2016-02-27T13:00:54Z beach: Yeah, people get worked up over things that don't matter. I suppose if every Unix utility (cat, wc, etc) were a 50MB executable, it might be a problem. 2016-02-27T13:01:09Z decached joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:07:01Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:07:12Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T13:07:17Z decached left #lisp 2016-02-27T13:07:27Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:09:07Z Guest82184 is now known as micro_ 2016-02-27T13:09:47Z futpib_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:12:16Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T13:12:49Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T13:14:11Z Oddity quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-02-27T13:17:05Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:17:12Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T13:17:24Z futpib_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T13:17:25Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:17:33Z futpib_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:20:34Z futpib joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:21:03Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T13:23:48Z futpib_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T13:25:52Z Oddity joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:26:26Z futpib_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:26:58Z dwchandler: for "applications" nobody should care 2016-02-27T13:27:32Z dwchandler: even for "scripting" disk like that isn't much problem, but people WILL care anyway 2016-02-27T13:29:39Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T13:30:22Z haom: I cared only because I was coming from C and _had_ to generate executables for things to run. 2016-02-27T13:31:06Z haom: so the first thing you think is "now that I have this lisp file, how do you compile it". 2016-02-27T13:31:26Z haom: because "compiling" and "generating an exe" is synonymous in C-land. 2016-02-27T13:31:40Z oceanpollen: people do care, though, which is why it keeps coming up. you can solve it ("use ecl"), explain it ("it's a bunch of statically linked lisp; it's not like all of your apps will be 40x larger, it's just a floor for your program"), and redirect ("these are the things I care about more than runtime size:") 2016-02-27T13:32:59Z Whitesquall joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:33:08Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:33:22Z haom: people do care, but only as long as they are wetting their feet in lisp. once they dive in, it becomes obvious that you dont need that exe. 2016-02-27T13:33:47Z dwchandler: yes and no 2016-02-27T13:34:09Z dwchandler: people will care less. i.e., care in a more appropriate way 2016-02-27T13:34:18Z tfm joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:35:13Z dwchandler: if the application is all-encompassing, always running, then who cares if it's an exe 2016-02-27T13:35:40Z dwchandler: if it's one part of an ecosystem and needs to interact with other things then it matters more 2016-02-27T13:35:44Z oceanpollen: care less works. it's not like hello worlds become more impressive 2016-02-27T13:35:52Z dwchandler: more of a deal on unix than on windows 2016-02-27T13:36:00Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T13:36:49Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:37:03Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:37:12Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T13:37:28Z Zhivago: haom: That's actually untrue -- compilation in C-land often produces object files or libraries rather than executables. 2016-02-27T13:37:29Z futpib_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-02-27T13:37:48Z oceanpollen: something similar to a hello world is CGI on servers - except image size still doesn't matter. you have plenty of disk and ram, but you want to be sparing with CPU, and want to terminate quickly. SBCL is actually pretty good here -- better than PHP, which is what's mostly used in this domain. 2016-02-27T13:37:51Z futpib_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:38:06Z pareidolia: I would like to create my own "style-warning" 2016-02-27T13:38:09Z oceanpollen: ^ is an example of a redirection. 2016-02-27T13:38:38Z pareidolia: Is there any way to do that, making emacs underline the offending part? 2016-02-27T13:42:42Z lisp521 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:44:36Z tanderson11 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:54:53Z mishoo joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:56:54Z fiddlerwoaroof: clhs style-warning 2016-02-27T13:56:54Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/e_style_.htm 2016-02-27T13:57:04Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T13:57:08Z Warlock_29A quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T13:57:09Z fiddlerwoaroof: clhs warn 2016-02-27T13:57:09Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_warn.htm 2016-02-27T13:57:12Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T13:58:05Z fiddlerwoaroof: You'd probably have to use implementation-specific functionality to get warn to be called appropriately. 2016-02-27T13:59:28Z remi`bd quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-02-27T13:59:48Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2016-02-27T14:03:20Z pareidolia: I feared so 2016-02-27T14:03:56Z harish joined #lisp 2016-02-27T14:05:37Z dew3y quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T14:06:21Z jackdaniel: alexandria has simple-style-warning 2016-02-27T14:06:53Z dew3y joined #lisp 2016-02-27T14:08:58Z hydan` quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-02-27T14:13:10Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T14:14:03Z karswell joined #lisp 2016-02-27T14:15:37Z pareidolia: Cool, I found something 2016-02-27T14:17:04Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T14:17:13Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T14:18:22Z LiamH joined #lisp 2016-02-27T14:18:23Z pareidolia: I made a macro to expand to nothing, but warn when it's executed http://imgur.com/FzELCTN 2016-02-27T14:18:51Z pareidolia: Like a little post-it note 2016-02-27T14:26:04Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-02-27T14:27:18Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T14:27:41Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T14:28:18Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2016-02-27T14:29:54Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T14:31:43Z DeadTrickster: pareidolia, that would be esp useful if asdf option that threats warnings as error worked 2016-02-27T14:32:09Z DeadTrickster: I mean it works yes but you simply can't use it because CL community generated tons of shitty code 2016-02-27T14:32:29Z pareidolia: Huh explain? 2016-02-27T14:32:51Z DeadTrickster: undefined function/ unsued vars etc etc etc 2016-02-27T14:32:56Z DeadTrickster: unused 2016-02-27T14:33:33Z pareidolia: It's just a piece of metadata for me before I publish, to keep track of functions to unittest 2016-02-27T14:36:37Z almih quit (Read error: Connection reset by 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2016-02-27T16:20:41Z DeadTrickster: I'm rewriting some php to lisp now 2016-02-27T16:20:51Z whiteline joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:20:55Z DeadTrickster: just stupid rewriting gave 5x speedup 2016-02-27T16:21:00Z DeadTrickster: it is amaizing 2016-02-27T16:23:39Z DeadTrickster: but soap :-/ 2016-02-27T16:27:00Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T16:28:15Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:28:55Z loke`: DeadTrickster: I'd expect more 2016-02-27T16:29:29Z DeadTrickster: well this is rpc over http too much fluctuation 2016-02-27T16:30:41Z DeadTrickster: basically everything went well and then SOAP again 2016-02-27T16:30:45Z beach left #lisp 2016-02-27T16:30:51Z DeadTrickster: Gods I hate it 2016-02-27T16:31:10Z DeadTrickster: well I hate it because there is no cl client but anyway 2016-02-27T16:31:16Z loke`: You are doing SOAP in Lisp? 2016-02-27T16:31:26Z DeadTrickster: lots of ducking soap 2016-02-27T16:31:39Z loke`: I needed to once but never found a decent solution. 2016-02-27T16:31:49Z loke`: Ended up doing it in Java instead. :-( 2016-02-27T16:31:52Z DeadTrickster: yeah I stole Xach idea from zs3 2016-02-27T16:31:58Z schaueho joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:32:05Z loke`: What idea is that? 2016-02-27T16:32:06Z DeadTrickster: xml binders - basically bunch of macro 2016-02-27T16:32:13Z DeadTrickster: binders and encoders 2016-02-27T16:33:05Z DeadTrickster: I expanded it with serializers and stuff 2016-02-27T16:33:21Z loke`: I see 2016-02-27T16:33:27Z DeadTrickster: I even made WSDL parser but codegen it damn hard 2016-02-27T16:33:52Z DeadTrickster: especially when you have tons of external schemas 2016-02-27T16:34:22Z loke`: Thankfully I haven't had the need to do any SOAP in a long time 2016-02-27T16:34:55Z DeadTrickster: lucky you 2016-02-27T16:37:05Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:37:14Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T16:37:47Z loke`: Well, that's a small luck. I have to suffer a _lot_ of other crap though... 2016-02-27T16:38:48Z ryan_vw joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:39:21Z DeadTrickster: for me SOAP infrastructure is a good maturity test though. If someone was bothered enough to write this shit then ecosystem is mature 2016-02-27T16:40:30Z loke`: Well, the situation doesn't look much better in Erlang... 2016-02-27T16:41:36Z DeadTrickster: yeah I asked on #erlang this morning for soap client 2016-02-27T16:41:37Z loke`: Doesn't seem to be much for Go either 2016-02-27T16:41:40Z DeadTrickster: no one replied )) 2016-02-27T16:41:47Z loke`: So I don't think Lisp is in bad company here :-) 2016-02-27T16:41:56Z DeadTrickster: and yep I tried that wsdl with go generator 2016-02-27T16:42:09Z loke`: Did it work? 2016-02-27T16:42:17Z DeadTrickster: gowsdl 2016-02-27T16:42:19Z DeadTrickster: nope 2016-02-27T16:42:23Z DeadTrickster: :-) 2016-02-27T16:42:35Z loke`: Frankly, I don't think a lot of people care. 2016-02-27T16:42:53Z DeadTrickster: It depends 2016-02-27T16:43:09Z DeadTrickster: It is fedex wsdl. I think a lot of people integrate with them 2016-02-27T16:43:49Z loke`: COBOL and RPG seems to be a go though. Happy you! :-) https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/systems/library/es-webservicesrpg/ 2016-02-27T16:44:43Z loke`: Another one. You're all set: http://supportline.microfocus.com/documentation/books/nx31sp1/wstkit.htm 2016-02-27T16:45:02Z brkr joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:45:57Z Howling quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T16:45:58Z raoulvdberge joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:47:32Z DeadTrickster: never saw COBOL before 2016-02-27T16:48:13Z Meow-J quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2016-02-27T16:48:47Z malbertife joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:48:51Z H4ns: DeadTrickster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKG0IEyeZb0 2016-02-27T16:50:47Z monod joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:53:57Z jleija joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:54:20Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T16:54:59Z DeadTrickster: nice girl btw 2016-02-27T16:55:40Z fiddlerwoaroof: DeadTrickster: how about using a javascript SOAP library and cl-js? :) 2016-02-27T16:56:18Z fiddlerwoaroof: Although, I'd suppose you'd have to write your own DOM implementation then. 2016-02-27T16:56:21Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:57:02Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:57:14Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T16:57:39Z digiorgi joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:57:46Z k-stz joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:58:09Z DeadTrickster: fiddlerwoaroof, I can read WSDL like a pro now no need your hipsta javascript 2016-02-27T16:58:22Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T16:58:39Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:58:47Z digiorgi: how can i get the value of a variable, having the package,and variable name?? 2016-02-27T16:58:56Z Howling joined #lisp 2016-02-27T16:58:56Z digiorgi: without a macro 2016-02-27T16:59:04Z fiddlerwoaroof: (symbol-value 'package:name) 2016-02-27T16:59:10Z Xach_: digiorgi: if it is a global variable, symbol-value on the symbol returned by find-symbol. 2016-02-27T16:59:22Z Xach_: digiorgi: if it is a lexical variable, there is no way. 2016-02-27T17:01:00Z asc232 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:01:03Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-02-27T17:02:22Z loke`: I watched this video some time ago. I cannot possible believe this is the regular workflow? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv7ThVwb7m8 2016-02-27T17:02:41Z loke`: (I'd presume developers write code and test on a workstation before they go through this...) 2016-02-27T17:03:55Z jackdaniel: /win 19 2016-02-27T17:04:13Z Beluki: Oh 2016-02-27T17:04:18Z digiorgi: (symbol-value (find-symbol "*FOO*" some-package)) tries to fetch the value of *package* and not from some-package. 2016-02-27T17:04:36Z Xach_: digiorgi: incorrect. 2016-02-27T17:04:46Z Xach_: digiorgi: what prompts that comment? 2016-02-27T17:05:08Z Beluki: loke`, thanks for the memories, I still remember using those machines. 2016-02-27T17:05:55Z loke`: Beluki: I have to say it doesn't look ver pleasant 2016-02-27T17:06:04Z Beluki: Typically we did all the development directly in them. 2016-02-27T17:06:05Z loke`: Interesting indeed, but not pleasant 2016-02-27T17:06:27Z Beluki: Actually... it's more comfortable than it looks at first glance. 2016-02-27T17:07:04Z Beluki: Everything is easily accesible both from menus and commands, it's just... "different". 2016-02-27T17:07:34Z digiorgi: Xach_, yep you are right. Thanks! 2016-02-27T17:08:38Z Beluki: loke`: for example, in every screen you can move the cursor anywhere, press F1 and get help on what the thing under the cursor does. 2016-02-27T17:08:58Z Beluki: But i'm getting off-topic for the channel, sorry. 2016-02-27T17:09:12Z loke`: Beluki: I have installed and run MVS in Hercules. It was, however, very hard to learn what to do 2016-02-27T17:09:38Z monod quit (Quit: Sto andando via) 2016-02-27T17:09:47Z monod joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:11:09Z loke`: OK, i have to go to sleep now. 2016-02-27T17:11:12Z monod is now known as monod2 2016-02-27T17:11:16Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-02-27T17:11:22Z monod2 is now known as monod 2016-02-27T17:13:04Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-02-27T17:14:21Z easye` joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:14:31Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T17:14:56Z rodolfowtf quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2016-02-27T17:15:59Z easye quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-02-27T17:16:50Z rodolfowtf joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:16:51Z rodolfowtf quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-02-27T17:17:04Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:17:14Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T17:18:09Z Nikotiini joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:18:28Z rodolfowtf joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:19:26Z Ven joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:20:39Z Howling quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-02-27T17:21:16Z tfm joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:21:42Z pseudo_sue quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T17:26:58Z Howling joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:28:41Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T17:29:02Z myrkraverk joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:30:39Z OrangeShark joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:37:05Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:37:09Z pjb joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:37:15Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T17:37:57Z mogunus quit (Quit: mogunus) 2016-02-27T17:39:26Z fiddlerwoaroof: clhs hash-table 2016-02-27T17:39:26Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_hash_t.htm 2016-02-27T17:39:54Z Howling quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T17:40:03Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:41:52Z kchndr is now known as abwabwa 2016-02-27T17:42:20Z Howling joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:42:38Z fantazo_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:43:19Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 2016-02-27T17:46:04Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-02-27T17:48:25Z oleo_ is now known as oleo 2016-02-27T17:53:12Z tanderson11 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-02-27T17:53:15Z tanderson111 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:55:19Z tfm quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2016-02-27T17:55:56Z tfm joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:57:10Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T17:57:15Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T18:01:04Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-02-27T18:02:59Z almih joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:06:59Z NeverDie joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:07:38Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:09:07Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:10:01Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-02-27T18:12:55Z lisp148 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:13:27Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:13:57Z lisp148: what other utility libraries exist for working with sequences besides alexandria/cl-utilities? 2016-02-27T18:15:01Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 2016-02-27T18:15:05Z Bicyclidine: what do you want to do? there's specialized stuff like split-sequence. 2016-02-27T18:16:52Z mogunus joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:17:05Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:17:15Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T18:17:57Z varjag joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:19:03Z fiddlerwoaroof: lisp148: serapeum 2016-02-27T18:19:33Z fiddlerwoaroof: https://github.com/TBRSS/serapeum/blob/master/reference.md#sequences 2016-02-27T18:19:57Z fiddlerwoaroof: Although, it depends on string-case which doesn't load on OSX for some reason. 2016-02-27T18:20:07Z fiddlerwoaroof intends to figure this out eventually. 2016-02-27T18:21:26Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T18:24:54Z kenanb joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:25:30Z kenanb: Shinmera: should I expect qtools-ui to work? and should I expect them to work with the samples from your demonstration videos? 2016-02-27T18:27:47Z Shinmera: kenanb: Yes; Not necessarily 2016-02-27T18:28:01Z Shinmera: The latter because the API might have changed since I made the videos. 2016-02-27T18:29:14Z Shinmera: kenanb: Writing proper tutorials for each component is on my todo, but sadly a ways down. 2016-02-27T18:29:28Z JitanRo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-02-27T18:29:35Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:29:41Z Shinmera: If you'd like to take up the work on that, I'd be very appreciative. 2016-02-27T18:29:53Z kenanb: Shinmera: yes, it seems like it changed. 2016-02-27T18:30:03Z Shinmera: What were you trying to do? 2016-02-27T18:31:24Z kenanb: Shinmera: well, I probably can't completely take up the task but I can help with it if I use qtools-ui, so far it seems I will at least need some of the components. 2016-02-27T18:31:33Z mastokley joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:31:36Z Shinmera: Ah, cool! 2016-02-27T18:31:51Z almih quit (Read error: No route to host) 2016-02-27T18:32:28Z kenanb: I was trying to test the options generator 2016-02-27T18:32:33Z Shinmera: Do note that QUI is by no means as extensively tested as I'd like. So, there's probably gonna be a bunch of corner cases that need to be optimised. If anything shows up, just throw a github issue ticket on there and I'll see what I can do. 2016-02-27T18:32:38Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T18:33:07Z max3 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-02-27T18:33:09Z Shinmera: Ah-- ok. 2016-02-27T18:33:18Z Shinmera: Give me a minute, I'll see if I can remember how it works. 2016-02-27T18:34:10Z nell joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:35:38Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-02-27T18:35:53Z Meow-J joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:37:08Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:37:16Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T18:39:24Z Shinmera: beh- have to recompile the libs 2016-02-27T18:41:05Z kenanb: Shinmera: maybe you can just put commented out sample code you used for testing while developing the component at the end of each component source, I don't think extensive tutorials would be necessary. It is a component after all. 2016-02-27T18:41:35Z kenanb: Shinmera: I don't mean this do that for each of them now, I mean you can do that for the new ones you'll write. 2016-02-27T18:41:35Z Shinmera: Well by "tutorial" I meant just a quick example of how to use it. 2016-02-27T18:42:13Z Shinmera: Anyway, can't seem to test right now. the smokeqtopengl.so refuses to load due to some symbol being unknown that I have no idea about. Recompiling didn't help either. 2016-02-27T18:42:49Z kenanb: Shinmera: ok no problem, thanks for trying 2016-02-27T18:43:04Z kenanb: Shinmera: I don't think it will be so hard to figure out how to use them 2016-02-27T18:43:44Z Shinmera: kenanb: The trick seems to be create-options-for-object, which takes an object to set and a body of expressions that define the options. 2016-02-27T18:43:52Z Shinmera: *object to set things on 2016-02-27T18:43:52Z Howling quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-02-27T18:43:59Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T18:44:40Z Shinmera: and each expression should be something like (slot-name :type type-of-thing ..other-initargs) 2016-02-27T18:44:45Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:44:52Z Shinmera: Should all be in options.lisp 2016-02-27T18:45:21Z kenanb: yep I was just testing something like that 2016-02-27T18:45:24Z max3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:45:36Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T18:46:29Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 2016-02-27T18:48:16Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-02-27T18:48:20Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:52:24Z tos-1 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:54:12Z kenanb: Shinmera: I constantly have to restart lisp while testing, and qtools&deps take some time to load, is there any problems with loading them ones and dump core? 2016-02-27T18:54:19Z shlomo joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:54:22Z kenanb: s/ones/once 2016-02-27T18:55:36Z Shinmera: As long as the shared libraries stay in the same place I don't think there should be a problem. 2016-02-27T18:55:50Z Shinmera: I've never done it myself though, so you'll have to just try it. 2016-02-27T18:55:55Z kenanb: Shinmera: since I don't know what tricks qtools has to do in the background for dealing with the mess, I wanted to ask 2016-02-27T18:56:24Z fiddlerwoaroof: kenanb: I've done that several times, and it seems to work. 2016-02-27T18:56:25Z Shinmera: The trickery only starts upon deployment, heh 2016-02-27T18:57:46Z Howling joined #lisp 2016-02-27T18:57:48Z fiddlerwoaroof: I generally also compile swank in, and then run my app with "--eval (start-swank) --eval (my-main)" 2016-02-27T18:58:34Z Shinmera looks at https://github.com/Shinmera/qtools/issues/10 and sighs 2016-02-27T18:59:26Z fiddlerwoaroof: I wonder if something like bazel could statically link the qt stuff in 2016-02-27T18:59:52Z kenanb: when I am working on stuff that will be distributed, I like using my old Intel Atom netbook for development, to set my expectations better :D but loading takes a while because of that 2016-02-27T18:59:56Z Shinmera: It probably could, but as far as I know it doesn't really work at all quite yet and I don't want to force some kind of deployment system. 2016-02-27T18:59:59Z EvW joined #lisp 2016-02-27T19:00:12Z Shinmera: kenanb: Oh boy, I can imagine. 2016-02-27T19:01:06Z kenanb: :) 2016-02-27T19:04:33Z Shinmera: Precompiling the wrappers with Q+'s ASDF system might also speed things up, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. 2016-02-27T19:04:49Z Shinmera: So many things I never really tested :/ 2016-02-27T19:06:40Z lisp148 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-02-27T19:10:19Z Howling quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T19:13:37Z brandonz joined #lisp 2016-02-27T19:15:02Z tessier quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T19:15:11Z tessier joined #lisp 2016-02-27T19:15:11Z tessier quit (Changing host) 2016-02-27T19:15:11Z tessier joined #lisp 2016-02-27T19:15:40Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T19:17:55Z shka joined #lisp 2016-02-27T19:18:28Z Shinmera: Looks like my system installed smokegen updated and that lead to problems somehow. sigh. 2016-02-27T19:19:37Z HDurer quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T19:21:41Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T19:23:32Z frgo joined #lisp 2016-02-27T19:25:34Z |3b|: Shinmera: if you know which shared libs are a problem and what order they should be loaded, you could probably unload them before saving and reload on loading a core. i think most lisps have hooks you could use to automate that 2016-02-27T19:27:25Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-02-27T19:29:33Z HDurer joined #lisp 2016-02-27T19:36:48Z varjag: where should i start to extend lisp-mode indent faces for my own dsl constructs? 2016-02-27T19:37:03Z varjag: indent and faces, in emacs clearly 2016-02-27T19:38:17Z kenanb: Shinmera: will that bug be relevant if you deploy the system that uses qtools only, but then a plugin that is loaded into the deployed image on runtime depends on an FFI lib. 2016-02-27T19:38:54Z Shinmera: |3b|: Right, the order is the problem. I'm probably going to have to add some user-extensible mechanism to specify that, but I just don't have time to get into it. 2016-02-27T19:39:22Z Shinmera: kenanb: Well in that case you have to do the dependency tracking and path resolving yourself 2016-02-27T19:39:45Z Shinmera: kenanb: So it's not directly related, but I'd like it to be extensible enough that it can be reused for such a thing. Would be dumb to duplicate the problem. 2016-02-27T19:40:10Z Shinmera: Anyway, looks like smokegen wasn't the issue-- can someone try doing (ql:quickload '(qtcore qtgui qtopengl)) and see if it errors? 2016-02-27T19:40:38Z Shinmera: I can't figure out what the problem is, I've recompiled all the libs from scratch a bunch of times now with no indication as to the problem at compile-time. 2016-02-27T19:41:05Z DeadTrickster: my experience with sbcl says it is better statically link lib than using *.so 2016-02-27T19:41:47Z kenanb: Shinmera: by plugin I mean an ASDF system that works as a plugin. So actually the person who writes the plugin needs to take care of that stuff, probably again using qtools as a dependency etc 2016-02-27T19:42:37Z Shinmera: kenanb: If you have ASDF in a deployed environment chances are you'll have a plethora of other problems anyway. 2016-02-27T19:42:58Z kenanb: why? 2016-02-27T19:43:04Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-02-27T19:43:06Z monod quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T19:43:35Z Shinmera: Well you'll have to set up ASDF to look in the right places, and only the right places. 2016-02-27T19:43:36Z kenanb: do you normally remove ASDF from the system somehow when deploying ? 2016-02-27T19:43:46Z Shinmera: No, but I don't let the user access it at runtime. 2016-02-27T19:43:52Z Shinmera: Which your plugin idea would essentially do? 2016-02-27T19:45:54Z Ven joined #lisp 2016-02-27T19:46:15Z kenanb: my plan is actually to not set up ASDF in any way at all, that was actually the whole point of me using it as the plugin system, it has a predetermined way of locating systems, loading them, tracking deps, etc. why do I roll my ad-hoc alternative for my application 2016-02-27T19:47:02Z Shinmera: Because generally when you install an application some place you expect it to look in a place related to that and not somewhere all over your system. 2016-02-27T19:47:36Z kenanb: so my application is more or less a deployed version of a development environment, with the addition of some UIs. 2016-02-27T19:47:38Z Shinmera: Not to mention that-- if you don't do that, you can't have multiple configurations of the same application on the system as they'll trample over each other. 2016-02-27T19:48:17Z kenanb: nope, I solved that using ASDF as the configuration tool too :D 2016-02-27T19:48:38Z kenanb: so the user writes an ASDF system as their config file 2016-02-27T19:49:18Z Shinmera: The point I'm trying to make is that since multiple instances will look in the same environment you're breaching encapsulation. 2016-02-27T19:49:30Z kenanb: the user can state with config (meanin config system) to load on startup with a parameter, and if she doesn't do that, there is a default system name to load as config 2016-02-27T19:49:38Z kenanb: hmm 2016-02-27T19:49:41Z DeadTrickster: sorry for interruption, quick question: do you guys deploy sources and reload everything on production? 2016-02-27T19:50:10Z jackdaniel provides a binary 2016-02-27T19:50:17Z DeadTrickster too 2016-02-27T19:50:19Z Shinmera: DeadTrickster: GUI deployments I've only done a finished binary, and deployments to server just have the same stuff as on my dev. 2016-02-27T19:50:39Z Shinmera: But then again I'm the one maintaining the servers so I don't care about the file mess. 2016-02-27T19:51:25Z DeadTrickster: do yourself a favor - ship binary 2016-02-27T19:51:50Z Shinmera: I don't see what that would improve 2016-02-27T19:52:41Z DeadTrickster: well you can't end up in half-reloaded state if you just reload code for example 2016-02-27T19:52:44Z kenanb: Shinmera: I understand your point. You are right. But are you stating that encapsulation is a problem from the perspective of a client's expectations of how a program should work, or from the perspective of "the right way" 2016-02-27T19:53:27Z Shinmera: kenanb: Both. 2016-02-27T19:53:39Z DeadTrickster: btw last time I used /me was 10 years ago or so :-) 2016-02-27T19:53:51Z Shinmera: kenanb: At least for most of the projects I work with there might be multiple instances running at the same time, so them not running into each other in any way is vital. 2016-02-27T19:54:00Z jackdaniel uses it moderately frequently 2016-02-27T19:54:31Z Shinmera: DeadTrickster: My setup is working fine as is right now. Adding a binary step would just complicate things. 2016-02-27T19:54:36Z kenanb: Shinmera: the operating system does the same thing for libs, it looks at your local repo, and it looks at system paths, I don't see how this becomes an encapsulation problem when my program does that 2016-02-27T19:55:55Z kenanb: Shinmera: I mean every instance will add their own location to asdf source registry on startup, so if you want encapsulation, put the plugin in the installed app folder, if you want globally accesses plugins, put them in one of the central locations 2016-02-27T19:55:59Z Shinmera: kenanb: Then tell me why docker is becoming so popular :^) 2016-02-27T19:56:13Z DeadTrickster: I have no idea 2016-02-27T19:56:20Z DeadTrickster: if you'd ask me 2016-02-27T19:56:47Z DeadTrickster: however I had RoR project once and this was nightmare 2016-02-27T19:57:20Z DeadTrickster: with CL and lisp I'm just relaxing 2016-02-27T19:57:28Z DeadTrickster: if not soap ( 2016-02-27T19:57:33Z Shinmera: kenanb: Anyway, I'm not saying what you're doing is fundamentally wrong. It's just something that makes me raise my eyebrows because I generally try to avoid situations like it. 2016-02-27T19:57:57Z kenanb: Shinmera: ah, so you were also including server kind of needs 2016-02-27T19:58:08Z kenanb: Shinmera: I am sorry, ofc it is important for a server 2016-02-27T19:58:41Z kenanb: Shinmera: the application I was referring to is definitely for client usage 2016-02-27T20:00:59Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T20:04:37Z Shinmera: kenanb: Right. 2016-02-27T20:05:30Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T20:05:35Z jason_m joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:10:41Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T20:13:36Z shlomo quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 2016-02-27T20:14:00Z ggole_ quit 2016-02-27T20:14:23Z arquebus joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:16:58Z ryan_vw quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 2016-02-27T20:19:12Z arquebus quit (Client Quit) 2016-02-27T20:20:24Z kenanb: Shinmera: btw I'm testing qtcore qtgui qtopengl, but you see, it will take some time :D 2016-02-27T20:20:33Z Shinmera: Alright. 2016-02-27T20:20:48Z Shinmera: I had someone else test it on an Arch system as well and there were no problems there, so that's a bit concerning. 2016-02-27T20:21:04Z kenanb: I am testing on Arch too 2016-02-27T20:21:13Z Shinmera: Ah, ok. 2016-02-27T20:22:13Z kenanb: x86 to be precise 2016-02-27T20:22:23Z kenanb: daily updated 2016-02-27T20:22:51Z kenanb: I can also test on Windows if you like 2016-02-27T20:23:09Z Shinmera: Well that won't tell me why it doesn't work on my arch. 2016-02-27T20:23:27Z kenanb: ah, so you have Arch too 2016-02-27T20:23:29Z kenanb: weird 2016-02-27T20:24:22Z Shinmera: The only thing I can think of is some package from testing screwing everything up. I wouldn't know how or why though. 2016-02-27T20:24:55Z _z quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-02-27T20:25:45Z _z joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:26:48Z max3 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-02-27T20:26:52Z kenanb: Shinmera: btw sometimes qt errors when I try from slime, is that normal? 2016-02-27T20:27:09Z Shinmera: Errors how? 2016-02-27T20:27:09Z kenanb: Shinmera: is it related to that main-thread issue or something 2016-02-27T20:27:38Z kenanb: says something like the image is corrupt etc 2016-02-27T20:27:42Z Shinmera: Most likely yes. Slime creates a new thread for each evaluation request. So creating windows without using cl+qt:with-main-window is a no-no. 2016-02-27T20:28:28Z Shinmera: Other things that can easily corrupt your image is calling repaint from a thread that isn't the main one. 2016-02-27T20:30:29Z kenanb: nice to know 2016-02-27T20:30:58Z Shinmera: qui has a repaintable mixin class for that 2016-02-27T20:31:19Z Shinmera: which provides a REPAINT method you can use instead. 2016-02-27T20:31:26Z almih joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:31:27Z Shinmera: that one's thread safe by using an event in the back. 2016-02-27T20:31:39Z Shinmera: or signal in Qt-lang 2016-02-27T20:33:06Z kenanb: btw I decided I need to use qui because parts of the windows that I will create has to be dynamic, meaning combinations of various widgets can be shown in that area according to current value of a variable, 2016-02-27T20:33:33Z Shinmera: Ah- so exactly the same problem I had and the raison d'être of QUI 2016-02-27T20:33:42Z kenanb: and qui introduction was talking about qt not playing well with dynamic setups and qui tries to solve it 2016-02-27T20:33:46Z kenanb: cool! 2016-02-27T20:34:15Z Shinmera: Caveat: I haven't actually gotten to the point where I incorporated that system into Parasol where I need it (due to other roadblocks), so I guess you'll be the first customer. 2016-02-27T20:34:27Z kenanb: haha 2016-02-27T20:34:39Z kenanb: I may be. 2016-02-27T20:34:57Z sjl joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:38:48Z mogunus quit (Quit: mogunus) 2016-02-27T20:39:12Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T20:41:31Z Don_John joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:43:19Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:43:37Z ryan_vw joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:44:49Z Ven joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:46:48Z william3 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T20:48:23Z william3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:49:27Z max3 joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:49:28Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2016-02-27T20:53:36Z tfm quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-02-27T20:54:45Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T20:54:48Z digiorgi quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-02-27T20:56:10Z Ven joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:57:06Z asdfa joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:57:16Z asdfa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-02-27T20:59:40Z tfm_ joined #lisp 2016-02-27T20:59:42Z mateuszb quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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