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2016-01-01T00:45:18Z Skuzzzy: Are there any good lisp references for programmers?
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2016-01-01T00:45:52Z Skuzzzy: Like something that does a whilwind tour through different built in stuff. Python does a great job of this
2016-01-01T00:45:56Z Skuzzzy: common-lisp
2016-01-01T00:46:03Z White_Flame: this is "The" reference: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Contents.htm
2016-01-01T00:46:18Z jasom: Skuzzzy: what White_Flame linked for a reference, for a tour i suggest pcl
2016-01-01T00:46:23Z jasom: minion: tell Skuzzzy about pcl
2016-01-01T00:46:23Z minion: Skuzzzy: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2016-01-01T00:47:08Z Skuzzzy: Really? I looked at pcl and I didn't like it. It seemed like they tried to be practical before teaching you useful things
2016-01-01T00:47:49Z jasom: Skuzzzy: if you don't like pcl, maybe PAIP?
2016-01-01T00:47:53Z jasom: minion: tell Skuzzzy about paip
2016-01-01T00:47:54Z minion: Skuzzzy: paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming
2016-01-01T00:48:16Z jasom: Skuzzzy: it's about AI programming, but uses lisp, so kill two birds with one stone
2016-01-01T00:48:28Z jasom: also I'm not sure what the distinction is between practical and useful
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2016-01-01T02:37:13Z resttime: (make-instance 'year :happy t :time 2016 :say "yay")
2016-01-01T02:39:32Z Cthulhux`: yay
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2016-01-01T03:34:59Z Skuzzzy: boo im miserable
2016-01-01T03:36:31Z blub: sorry skuzzzy
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2016-01-01T03:38:46Z N1993RS: IS THIS ITERATIVE OR RECURSIVE? https://repl.it/BbNT
2016-01-01T03:41:10Z Skuzzzy: Obviously iterative
2016-01-01T03:41:29Z N1993RS: but isn't recursion calling another function?
2016-01-01T03:41:35Z Skuzzzy: No
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2016-01-01T03:42:16Z Skuzzzy: Function calling itself, typically creating a smaller problem size, and assuming that call solves, or partially solves the problem you are trying to solve
2016-01-01T03:42:33Z Skuzzzy: I don't think it is a strict definition however
2016-01-01T03:43:37Z p_l: N1993RS: recursion means that at some point in the call stack, you're calling the original function again, which creates a new "cycle" in the call stack
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2016-01-01T03:47:16Z N1993RS: oh
2016-01-01T03:48:18Z jasom: A function that is defined in terms of itself (either directly or indirectly) would be recursive
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2016-01-01T04:50:41Z beach: Happy new Common Lisp year everyone!
2016-01-01T04:51:12Z beach: Resolutions for 2016: Get more libraries out there and make them documented and tested.
2016-01-01T04:51:39Z mlrutherford: thanks friend :)
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2016-01-01T04:51:49Z mlrutherford: have a good NYE yourself
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2016-01-01T04:54:17Z beach: Thanks.  My projects for 2016: SICL (of course), finish Cluffer (should be soon), Modify Second Climacs to use Cluffer, put a CLIM II GUI on Second Climacs, librarify the SICL simple reader so that it can be used as an incremental parser, write an incremental parser for Second Climacs.
2016-01-01T04:55:58Z mlrutherford: all i wanna do is package sbcl for Solus and eventually start a cool project in Lisp. havent found anything cool yet though
2016-01-01T04:56:28Z beach: What is Solus?
2016-01-01T04:57:01Z mlrutherford: an independent distro of Linux
2016-01-01T04:57:16Z beach: Ah, OK.  Good!
2016-01-01T04:57:31Z mlrutherford: yeah, im gonna make lisp a big priority!
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2016-01-01T04:58:34Z mlrutherford: workin on zenlisp right now. i got clisp and ecl already in. abcl is next. Any reccomendations for lisps to add?
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2016-01-01T05:08:36Z beach: CCL?
2016-01-01T05:08:45Z beach: What is "zenlisp"?
2016-01-01T05:09:21Z mlrutherford: an experimental language based on arrowlisp
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2016-01-01T05:09:29Z mlrutherford: for education purposes mostly
2016-01-01T05:10:24Z beach: Since all the others you mentioned are implementations of Common Lisp, I thought zenlisp was as well.  My bad.
2016-01-01T05:12:52Z mlrutherford: no worries. its a lisp, but i dont think its a complete one
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2016-01-01T05:14:57Z beach: Let's not have that debate (the one about what it means to be "Lisp" or "a Lisp") for the second time in two days.
2016-01-01T05:15:34Z mlrutherford: ah ok, i didnt intend to. im pretty lax about that stuff :P
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2016-01-01T05:29:24Z beach: mlrutherford: What kind of "cool" project do you have in mind?
2016-01-01T05:30:16Z mlrutherford: i wanted to make a 2 player hotseat chess game, but im new to Lisp so im not super comfortable with doing that. Still looking for stuff that looks fun to tackle
2016-01-01T05:32:24Z beach: If it is a 2-player game, is it not just a GUI and some simple logic?
2016-01-01T05:35:54Z mlrutherford: simple Command Line hotseat chess game, no GUI or AI
2016-01-01T05:36:52Z beach: I guess I don't know what "hotseat" means in this context.
2016-01-01T05:37:18Z mlrutherford: 2 players switch back and forth and take turns playing
2016-01-01T05:37:27Z mlrutherford: it just changes sides
2016-01-01T05:39:02Z beach: I see.
2016-01-01T05:41:04Z beach: Do you show the board, or do the players just keep that in their heads?
2016-01-01T05:43:10Z mlrutherford: it wouldnt be to hard to print the board i wouldnt think. maybe just a simple design though. like the gnu-chess interface
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2016-01-01T05:53:03Z beach: I suppose the players are geographically apart, yes?  I mean, otherwise, they would just use a chess board.
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2016-01-01T05:54:12Z mlrutherford: unless you're lame like me and cant afford a decent chess board, or just prefer digital because of space constraints :P
2016-01-01T05:54:32Z Kazlock: Has anyone read Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs?
2016-01-01T05:55:18Z beach: Kazlock: Many people here have read it.
2016-01-01T05:55:45Z Kazlock: I was wondering if I should invest the time to read it
2016-01-01T05:55:55Z Kazlock: or if I'm better of reading something else
2016-01-01T05:56:29Z zaquest: i think it's always a good idea to read sicp, even if you've read it before :D
2016-01-01T05:56:49Z beach: It depends on what it is you want to learn.  To me, that book was an eye opener.  But that was 30 years ago, so perhaps there is something better nowadays for what you want to learn.
2016-01-01T05:57:39Z Kazlock: beach: I'm curious about AI programming. I wrote a basic neural network in python
2016-01-01T05:57:56Z beach: Oh, then PAIP is a much better choice.
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2016-01-01T05:58:09Z beach: minion: Please tell Kazlock about PAIP.
2016-01-01T05:58:10Z minion: Kazlock: PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming
2016-01-01T05:58:19Z Kazlock: I'm also interested in writing better software in general
2016-01-01T05:58:53Z beach: PAIP is good for that too.
2016-01-01T05:59:00Z beach: And you need to know about CLOS.
2016-01-01T05:59:11Z Kazlock: common lisp object system?
2016-01-01T05:59:15Z beach: Yes.
2016-01-01T05:59:26Z Kazlock: Before I start PAIP?
2016-01-01T05:59:32Z beach: No.
2016-01-01T06:00:00Z beach: PAIP doesn't use CLOS, as I recall.  Maybe it predates the Common Lisp standard?  I am sorry.  My memory is not so great.
2016-01-01T06:00:25Z beach: But you need to know about CLOS in order to write better software.
2016-01-01T06:00:33Z Bicyclidine: mainly it's just old. all the disassemblies are TI
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2016-01-01T06:01:37Z resttime: (make-instance 'year :happy t :time 2016 :say "yay")
2016-01-01T06:01:39Z resttime: yay
2016-01-01T06:02:15Z Bicyclidine: PAIP is also more about history than some kind of primer, not that history isn't important. Helps to know what doesn't work
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2016-01-01T06:04:02Z beach: Kazlock: Oh, you should know that SICP uses Scheme, and this channel is about Common Lisp.  Hence the advice.
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2016-01-01T06:08:13Z starfighter: PAIP briefly introduces CLOS at the end of chap 13 but before that it defines its own macro define-class
2016-01-01T06:09:04Z starfighter: so you don't really need to know CLOS beforehand
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2016-01-01T06:38:14Z beach: starfighter: Thanks.  I had forgotten about that.
2016-01-01T06:40:00Z beach: Has anyone come up with a CLOS protocol for readtables?  We could use one so that it would be possible to write implementation-independent code such as readers etc., that could target such a protocol.
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2016-01-01T06:41:27Z Bicyclidine: i don't think so. named-readtables is pretty widely used but has a backend seemingly made of scary hacks.
2016-01-01T06:41:59Z beach: And it has a very different purpose, right?
2016-01-01T06:42:04Z jsgrant: (setq newyear (+ year 1))
2016-01-01T06:42:16Z Bicyclidine: purpose?
2016-01-01T06:42:48Z beach: Bicyclidine: Isn't it part of the "editor hints" library?
2016-01-01T06:43:18Z Bicyclidine: well, yeah, but it still messes with readtables a lot, isn't it just what would need a protocol?
2016-01-01T06:44:03Z beach: Oh, I see what you mean, I think.  NAMED-READTABLES could use such a protocol?  Is that what you mean?
2016-01-01T06:44:17Z Bicyclidine: yeah.
2016-01-01T06:44:24Z beach: For a while I thought you meant that NAMED-READTABLES would be an alternative to such a protocol.
2016-01-01T06:44:24Z Bicyclidine: that it would, if there was one.
2016-01-01T06:44:29Z Bicyclidine: nah.
2016-01-01T06:44:32Z beach: Yes, yes, I get it now.
2016-01-01T06:46:16Z beach: Coming up with such a protocol would be a good exercise for someone who would like to become good with CLOS, provided the development process were to be exposed, say here on #lisp.
2016-01-01T06:47:09Z beach: Then, once the protocol is done, we could come up with implementations of it for various Common Lisp implementations.
2016-01-01T06:49:30Z pjb: beach: In com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-reader.reader:readtable is a clos class, and the readtable functions are generic functions. Do you have something else in mind?
2016-01-01T06:50:27Z pjb: On the other hand, a lot of readtable CL functions actually have the readtable optional, so they can't be generic functions properly.
2016-01-01T06:50:32Z beach: pjb: I would have to look at it.  In SICL, it is the same, of course.  But we need something that most people can agree upon.
2016-01-01T06:50:46Z pjb: so indeed, we'd need a more CLOS API.
2016-01-01T06:51:02Z beach: pjb: That's why we need a protocol function for each one of those, where the readtable argument is required.
2016-01-01T06:51:10Z pjb: yes.
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2016-01-01T06:52:19Z beach: Do I still need to look at your readtable code to check whether it has those functions?
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2016-01-01T07:07:37Z jsgrant: Brb, props.
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2016-01-01T07:10:24Z Bicyclidine: I have a method which returns one result when loaded at first, but then if i go in and compile it again it gets me a different result. This kind of sucks.
2016-01-01T07:10:49Z pjb: beach: no, you don't need. A new API definition is needed.
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2016-01-01T07:26:32Z beach: pjb: OK.  Thanks!
2016-01-01T07:27:18Z beach: Bicyclidine: Not so great, indeed.
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2016-01-01T07:45:58Z beach: pjb: OK, I think I have some ideas for a protocol.  But I am working on Cluffer right now, so it won't be right away.  Are you thinking of working on this yourself?
2016-01-01T07:46:27Z beach: pjb: I assume you don't have the time, right?
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2016-01-01T07:50:16Z beach: I am thinking that the syntax type of a character should be represented as a standard instance.  So for example, when asked about the syntax type of #\a, an instance of CONSTITUENT (subclass of SYNTAX-TYPE) should be returned.
2016-01-01T07:50:17Z beach: That way, classes such as CONSTITUENT can be subclassed and instances can contain additional information.  For most characters, the same instance can be returned so that there would be no reason to create an instance each time.
2016-01-01T07:50:41Z beach: Does anyone have a problem with that?
2016-01-01T07:52:03Z Bicyclidine: wouldn't that end up taking a lot of space?
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2016-01-01T07:52:38Z beach: I usually don't take those things into consideration.
2016-01-01T07:53:04Z beach: There would not be a ready-made instance stored for all of Unicode of course.
2016-01-01T07:53:24Z beach: And implementations who care about space could return a fresh instance every time.
2016-01-01T07:53:56Z beach: Implementations who care about time would store instances for (say) all of Latin-1.
2016-01-01T07:54:52Z beach: That would be 256 instances.
2016-01-01T07:55:11Z beach: Each instance would have perhaps 64 bytes.
2016-01-01T07:55:57Z Bicyclidine: oh. i see. yeah.
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2016-01-01T08:05:49Z beach: OK, I'll continue thinking in that direction, and see what happens.
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2016-01-01T08:16:09Z pjb: I've used mere fixnums for character syntax types, and fixnums with a bit structure for constituent traits, so that (= +ct-sign+ (logior +ct-plus-sign+ +ct-minus-sign+)) etc.
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2016-01-01T08:18:27Z pjb: I'm not sure it's interesting to reify character syntaxes, given that they're only useful for the reader algorithm.  For constituent traits, the most useful is package-marker.  The question anyways is whether we want to provide an API to configure them dynamically, or if we keep the hard-coded settings specified by CL?
2016-01-01T08:20:00Z pjb: Eg. the exponent-marker constituents are useful only to the float parsing function. The question is whether we keep the hard coded format, or whether we want to provide a parameterization thru those constituent traits.  It's probably easier to provide a more global parameterization: allowing other parsing functions.
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2016-01-01T08:24:05Z pjb: beach: actually, in an implementation, you could have the syntax and constituent trait be attributes of the characters themselves. That would be 7 bit + 21 bit unicode that leaves 4 bits for tags on a 32 bit word.
2016-01-01T08:24:41Z pjb: they would be read with char-int.
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2016-01-01T08:29:41Z moore33: Happy New Year!
2016-01-01T08:30:34Z pjb: beach: Another point of view is that, again the syntax is only useful to the token reader (the lisp reader algorithm); the result of this algo is a token which is a sequence of (character constituent-trait); this sequence is processed by parse-token to make floats, ratio, integers or symbols.  So an API is only useful there, IMO, between the lisp reader and the parse token function, so you only need a nice representation for those
2016-01-01T08:30:34Z pjb: (character constituent-trait) couples.
2016-01-01T08:31:05Z beach: Just came back.  Need to catch up.  Hold on...
2016-01-01T08:31:34Z pjb: beach: and the question is whether you want to parameterize the lisp reader algorithm (ie. allow for new constituent traits), or you keep the specified constituent traits and allow only for customization or parameterization of the token parsing functions.
2016-01-01T08:31:58Z pjb: I'd favor the later.
2016-01-01T08:32:45Z beach: I'll contemplate all this and see what I come up with.
2016-01-01T08:33:02Z beach: Syntax is useful not only to the token reader.
2016-01-01T08:33:33Z beach: The reader algorithm itself needs to determine whether it is a constituent, a macro character, an escape character, etc.
2016-01-01T08:35:23Z pjb: Yes, sorry, I mean the token reader, ie. the part of the lisp reader algorithm that deals only with tokens, not with reader macros.
2016-01-01T08:35:42Z beach: OK.
2016-01-01T08:36:48Z pjb: I have a character-description class describing for a given character: syntax, trait, reader-macro (function), dispatching-reader-macro (hash-table).
2016-01-01T08:37:09Z pjb: a hashtable mapping character to character-descriptions is essentially a readtable.
2016-01-01T08:38:09Z beach: I understand.
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2016-01-01T08:39:30Z pjb: When you'll have a document to review, please send it to me by email, since from Monday I'll be much less on irc.
2016-01-01T08:40:21Z beach: OK.  Very likely, I will create some repository on GitHub.
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2016-01-01T09:02:22Z beach: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Claracter
2016-01-01T09:02:44Z beach: Did the most important part: giving the project a name. :)
2016-01-01T09:09:09Z White_Flame: now to figure out when to clear its cache
2016-01-01T09:16:18Z jsgrant: beach: The most important part, giving it a name that forces the string "CL" somewhere into it. *
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2016-01-01T09:18:04Z jsgrant dreams of a world, where all Common Lisp software is composed of painfully interjected wordplay/smithing. :^)
2016-01-01T09:18:22Z jsgrant: Seems to have worked pretty well for KDE & GNOME, historically.
2016-01-01T09:22:58Z beach: jsgrant: The "CL" part is for kicks.  The most important part is that the name is unique and can be found on Google.
2016-01-01T09:23:46Z jsgrant: beach: Yeah, I'm just josh'n ya; I actually think it's endearing in the "dad joke" kinda way.
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2016-01-01T09:26:42Z beach: The other thing is this.  Since we don't have package aliases and since I don't want to :USE packages, I want package names that can be typed as prefixes for each symbol.  Therefore the package name can't be too long.  But it still needs to be unique.
2016-01-01T09:27:32Z jsgrant: beach: Fair.
2016-01-01T09:28:03Z pjb: You could use your TLA, each of us could, mostly, since we're largely less than 17576 lispers. rb-chars pjb-chars…
2016-01-01T09:28:50Z beach: Sure, there are several ways of "solving" (or rather "compensating for") this problem.
2016-01-01T09:29:01Z pjb: :-)
2016-01-01T09:29:53Z jsgrant: Okay, I'm ducking out; Already edging towards 4am in Saint Louis, and have a few things to do tomorrow. Peace peeps. o/
2016-01-01T09:29:57Z jsgrant is afk.
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2016-01-01T09:45:26Z mtl: jsgrant: climacs is my fav one
2016-01-01T09:45:32Z mtl: just works on so many levels
2016-01-01T09:45:47Z mtl: wish I could say the same about the software itself though :/
2016-01-01T09:47:43Z beach: Thanks!  Yes, I am pretty proud of that one.
2016-01-01T09:48:03Z beach: In Russian, I have been told it means "menopause". :)
2016-01-01T09:49:26Z White_Flame: huh, google translate agrees
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2016-01-01T09:59:46Z yvm: This word also has many funny euphemisms like "Red letter day".
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2016-01-01T12:47:03Z dim: is it possible to fmakunbound just a defmethod, without impacting the other methods on the same generic function?
2016-01-01T12:49:00Z dim: (just restarted the implementation)
2016-01-01T12:50:19Z lieven: REMOVE-METHOD perhaps? I don't think FMAKUNBOUND is supposed to do that.
2016-01-01T12:50:42Z flip214: clhs defmethod
2016-01-01T12:50:43Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmet.htm
2016-01-01T12:51:18Z flip214: clhs remove-method
2016-01-01T12:51:18Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_met.htm
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2016-01-01T13:27:13Z dim: thx
2016-01-01T13:28:02Z dim: restarting the image was easier anyway, it as all about interactive development
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2016-01-01T14:00:03Z oleo_: ☺ new year all
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2016-01-01T14:09:18Z PuercoPop: dim: you can remove methods from the inspector (when on the generic function)
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2016-01-01T14:23:28Z dim: nice, I need to up my slime game ;-)
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2016-01-01T14:54:31Z Wasdaf: Is there any small/simple library for using the system clipboard (X selections or whatever) in CL? I'm making a small tool with cl-charms (ncurses), which includes a text editor and would like to be able to paste text in/out of the program.
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2016-01-01T14:59:23Z BRODUS: can someone help me with this macro i'm trying to write? http://pastebin.com/B0FN5seR
2016-01-01T14:59:29Z BRODUS: its elisp btw
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2016-01-01T15:13:15Z axion: this channel is for common lisp
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2016-01-01T15:17:33Z mood: Wasdaf: For X selections, you can use CLX
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2016-01-01T15:20:25Z Wasdaf: Thanks, I'll look into that
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2016-01-01T16:29:44Z jfe: hi all. is a definitive lisp+scheme history available anywhere?
2016-01-01T16:32:54Z _death: no.. you can start with https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/HOPL2-Uncut.pdf
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2016-01-01T16:35:54Z jfe: _death: wonderful. thank you.
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2016-01-01T17:50:25Z attila_lendvai: is there a way in ASDF to depend on something in another module? e.g. something like :depends-on (("src" "package-stage-1"))
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2016-01-01T18:07:09Z francogrex: Hi, anyone skilled in c cffi can help with this, it's supposed to return a struct, but with the help of a debugger I realize the args are not being passed to the function "cbounds" why? http://paste.lisp.org/display/304336
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2016-01-01T18:08:23Z francogrex: I used swig to write the cffi interface, maybe that's what's wrong
2016-01-01T18:09:04Z attila_lendvai: francogrex: struct-by-value requires loading cffi-libffi, and is generally young code
2016-01-01T18:09:35Z mlrutherford: make-host-1.sh: line 34: clisp: command not found
2016-01-01T18:09:35Z mlrutherford:        is this a common thing to see when trying to compile sbcl?
2016-01-01T18:09:51Z attila_lendvai: francogrex: currently the debugged codepath is when the args get automatically translated from lisp lists into structs
2016-01-01T18:10:10Z H4ns: mlrutherford: it is a common thing if you try to cross compile with clisp but clisp is not installed.
2016-01-01T18:10:26Z mlrutherford: hmm, clisp *is* installed though
2016-01-01T18:10:37Z mlrutherford: its even in the builddeps for sbcl
2016-01-01T18:10:59Z francogrex: attila_lendvai: ok thanks. But can I find a workaround it to return ?
2016-01-01T18:11:01Z H4ns: mlrutherford: ah, you're trying some distribution's build system, can't help with that.
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2016-01-01T18:11:18Z mlrutherford: mmkay, thought id try anyways. thanks c:
2016-01-01T18:11:55Z attila_lendvai: francogrex: I'm working now on this: https://github.com/attila-lendvai/cffi, and here's an example project: https://github.com/attila-lendvai/hu.dwim.sdl
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2016-01-01T18:12:59Z attila_lendvai: francogrex: this generates working ffi, and I consider it better than swing (what a surprise! :) and here's the relevant bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/1528719
2016-01-01T18:13:52Z attila_lendvai: francogrex: if cffi-libffi is loaded then it should translate the struct into a lisp plist or something alike. you can macroexpand the defcfun and see what's there
2016-01-01T18:14:37Z francogrex: ok I'm not much attached to swig, if there is something nicer I'm willing to use it of course
2016-01-01T18:14:47Z LiamH: You can also define your own method to translate it anyway you like.
2016-01-01T18:15:04Z LiamH: Translation as a plist is just the default.
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2016-01-01T18:20:52Z LiamH: See example https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/antik/antik/blob/master/foreign-array/complex-types.lisp#L32
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2016-01-01T18:22:58Z francogrex: ok
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2016-01-01T18:24:47Z francogrex: is this what's happening then. the arguments are simple types (double) it's only the return that is a struct
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2016-01-01T19:30:15Z puchacz: hi, whould you do this (loop :for byte :across (coerce coercable-to-byte-array '(vector (unsigned-byte 8))) :do (format s "~2,'0x" byte)) to format data for sqlite blob?
2016-01-01T19:30:37Z puchacz: it gives correct format but I am not sure if it is the correct way, e.g. it does not churn too much memory etc.
2016-01-01T19:31:30Z puchacz: I surrounded it (with-output-to-string (s) ... )
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2016-01-01T19:33:48Z flip214: puchacz: why coerce? if it's a list, just iterate over it. if it's already a vector, no need to coerce.
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2016-01-01T19:34:11Z flip214: and you could give (with-output-to-string) an estimate of the size, if you know the input length.
2016-01-01T19:34:39Z puchacz: flip214: okay, I will give it the size
2016-01-01T19:35:27Z flip214: puchacz: and perhaps you'd want to go by 32 or 64bit values instead of by-byte?
2016-01-01T19:36:04Z puchacz: flip214: store data in different array?
2016-01-01T19:36:29Z flip214: just read by (unsigned-byte 32)?
2016-01-01T19:36:46Z puchacz: can you give me an example pls?
2016-01-01T19:38:41Z flip214: well, if you can (coerce X '(vector (unsigned-byte 8))), why not (coerce X '(vector (unsigned-byte 32))) and do (format s "~8,'0x" val)?
2016-01-01T19:39:29Z puchacz: ah, I see. I will try, thx
2016-01-01T19:39:54Z flip214: or (write  :base 16), perhaps .... although you'd need to do padding yourself.
2016-01-01T19:40:37Z puchacz: nah, as long as I am not doing something utterly silly, I don't need to squeeze every clock cycle out of it
2016-01-01T19:40:54Z flip214: not sure whether it would be faster anyway.
2016-01-01T19:41:10Z flip214: why not write the binary data directly into sqlite?
2016-01-01T19:41:48Z flip214: or simply use base64?
2016-01-01T19:41:49Z puchacz: that would be next step, if I need to
2016-01-01T19:42:03Z puchacz: base64 is 4/3 longer than needed
2016-01-01T19:42:11Z puchacz: in storage
2016-01-01T19:42:56Z puchacz: it is ok for a query to be encoded like this but I prefer not to bloat the actual storage file
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2016-01-01T19:44:00Z flip214: hex is even longer ....
2016-01-01T19:44:15Z puchacz: it is an input format for binary blob
2016-01-01T19:44:22Z puchacz: it stores it in binary form
2016-01-01T19:44:49Z puchacz: eg x'01FF0203228D'
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2016-01-01T20:36:12Z mathi_aihtam: Hello everyone, I have been lurking here for a while as i am trying to learn CL.
2016-01-01T20:36:20Z mathi_aihtam: (Happy New Year btw.)
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2016-01-01T20:36:53Z mathi_aihtam: As an exercise i made an implementation of double linked lists.
2016-01-01T20:37:04Z mathi_aihtam: https://github.com/matthieupeeters/lisp-double-linked-lists/blob/master/double-linked-list.lisp
2016-01-01T20:38:30Z mathi_aihtam: Anyone wants to take a look at it?
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2016-01-01T20:40:50Z shka: mathi_aihtam: hi
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2016-01-01T20:42:56Z shka: mathi_aihtam: this could use functions for pushing front
2016-01-01T20:43:25Z shka: and dll-reverse is not exactly ideal
2016-01-01T20:43:28Z mathi_aihtam: like "push" and "push-vector" ?
2016-01-01T20:43:52Z shka: i guess
2016-01-01T20:44:00Z shka: anyway
2016-01-01T20:44:12Z shka: what i would i do is to store both ends of list
2016-01-01T20:44:43Z mathi_aihtam: yeah, i thought of that. but i like the idea to start with nil .
2016-01-01T20:44:59Z shka: and reverse would simply rebind logic used to go trough the list
2016-01-01T20:45:18Z shka: which would be O(1) and not O(n)
2016-01-01T20:45:30Z mathi_aihtam: that's true.
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2016-01-01T20:45:59Z shka: anyway, i don't use 'do
2016-01-01T20:46:01Z mathi_aihtam: would be a lot faster for that operation.
2016-01-01T20:46:02Z shka: '
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2016-01-01T20:46:15Z shka: so can't really help with code that uses it ;-)
2016-01-01T20:46:28Z mathi_aihtam: i should have used loop.
2016-01-01T20:46:35Z shka: dunno
2016-01-01T20:46:39Z shka: it's just me
2016-01-01T20:47:01Z shka: also, i think that push-end would make this code usefull
2016-01-01T20:47:11Z shka: you can use it to implement Queue for instance
2016-01-01T20:47:30Z mood: mathi_aihtam: After a quick look, I'd suggest using some slightly more descriptive names. R and P don't tell me enough when reading. Descriptive aliases for CADR, CADDR and friends that say what exactly is being retrieved/set would also help.
2016-01-01T20:47:31Z mathi_aihtam: good idea.
2016-01-01T20:47:31Z shka: but without it, it is just inferior
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2016-01-01T20:48:12Z mathi_aihtam: shka: i'll add the push-end, and maybe use both ends of the dll.
2016-01-01T20:48:20Z shka: i mean: linear, can't be tree, not exactly functional, requires more memory than good old forward list of cons cells
2016-01-01T20:48:45Z shka: the only difference is that you can go both ways
2016-01-01T20:48:54Z shka: wich is sometimes usefull
2016-01-01T20:49:06Z mathi_aihtam: mood: also good idea. would you use macros for the aliasses?
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2016-01-01T20:49:28Z mood: mathi_aihtam: Not usually, no. I'd just define a function
2016-01-01T20:49:55Z mood: You could declaim them inline
2016-01-01T20:51:55Z mathi_aihtam: shka: i am not really sure what i am going to use it for. a queue could be useful, but maybe a sorted database index.
2016-01-01T20:53:35Z mathi_aihtam: mood: for now, normal functions are good enough. it would make the code a bit clearer. it is an exercise with a lot of cons-cells to keep in mind.
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2016-01-01T20:55:22Z blub: instead of '(when dll ; dll not empty?' you could just write '(when (not (null dll))', just as descriptive but self documenting
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2016-01-01T20:57:54Z mathi_aihtam: blub: thanks, i'll consider that.
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2016-01-01T21:09:26Z mathi_aihtam: Thanks for the advise all, i am stopping for today. Going to try to remember what i needed a dll for ;)
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2016-01-01T21:37:28Z jasom: Is there an asdf to load all the dependencies for a system, but not the system itself?
2016-01-01T21:37:40Z jasom: s/asdf/asdf function/
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2016-01-01T22:25:43Z pillton: jasom: This is how I did it. https://github.com/markcox80/lisp-executable/blob/master/src/creation.lisp#L72
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2016-01-01T22:29:18Z pillton: jasom: I'm not sure if it is the modern way. It was modern in 2013. :)
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2016-01-01T22:38:45Z Polyphony: any built-in that checks if a negative number exists in a list?
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2016-01-01T22:38:56Z Polyphony: (for common lisp i should add)
2016-01-01T22:39:07Z Bicyclidine: (some #'minusp list)
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2016-01-01T22:39:24Z Polyphony: i was looking for negativep! :P
2016-01-01T22:39:25Z Polyphony: thanks
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2016-01-01T22:46:44Z Polyphony: have any of you guys done these: https://github.com/google/lisp-koans
2016-01-01T22:47:54Z mordocai: Polyphony: I did about half. Some of them were stupidly easy but I learned some stuff
2016-01-01T22:48:04Z mordocai: Then I started writing real code so haven't gone back to it
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2016-01-01T22:48:39Z pillton: You never reach enlightenment. The premise is flawed.
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2016-01-01T22:49:06Z Polyphony: heh, well i'm definitely farther from it than most
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