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ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-20T02:01:05Z emacsomancer quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T02:05:12Z kjak quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-12-20T02:05:14Z Posterdati: the latest sbcl I try to use on mips didn't worked at all 2015-12-20T02:05:39Z nyef: How odd. 2015-12-20T02:06:07Z nyef: I mean, I know there are a couple of bugs, but the current release should work well enough if you cross-build it. 2015-12-20T02:07:03Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T02:07:06Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T02:07:33Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:08:33Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-12-20T02:09:04Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:11:59Z nonopposition quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T02:12:46Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T02:12:57Z nyef: (Okay, I say "well enough", but I happen to know that it's still cheneygc-only, and that there's this little issue with array allocation for passing to alien code...) 2015-12-20T02:13:39Z nyef: The binary versions for download are pretty old, though, to the point where I haven't been able to figure out HOW they got compiled, the code was so broken. 2015-12-20T02:13:44Z Posterdati: attila_lendvai: I tried to use sbcl on r4400 and ci20, both mips, with no success 2015-12-20T02:14:37Z nyef: Oh, and it's a 32-bit program. That could be an issue if you're on a 64-bit userland. 2015-12-20T02:14:41Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T02:14:42Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T02:14:58Z nyef: Works fine on my r16000 and my ERLite-3. 2015-12-20T02:15:12Z Posterdati: r4400 = 64 bit, ci20 = 32 bit 2015-12-20T02:15:25Z nyef: Yeah, I remember now. 2015-12-20T02:15:43Z nyef: I seem to have all 64-bit hardware and 32-bit userlands. 2015-12-20T02:15:58Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:16:07Z nyef: And can't switch away from that pattern yet, due to linux kernel issues that I haven't nailed to the wall yet. 2015-12-20T02:16:37Z Posterdati: so as I said: sbcl = x86 (and maybe arm) 2015-12-20T02:17:09Z resttime joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:17:13Z heurist joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:20:09Z aap_ joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:21:33Z aap quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-12-20T02:21:41Z switchp0rt: is there a function that reads char by char from stdout without having to hit enter to read the char? I am looking at (read-char *standard-output*) but it still seems to require me to hit enter to process char from stream 2015-12-20T02:22:50Z nyef: switchp0rt: You seem to be mixing up your inputs and your outputs... And straying into regions marked "here there be dragons" and "serial port line discipline" (as though they weren't synonymous phrases). 2015-12-20T02:23:12Z nonopposition joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:25:15Z nyef: switchp0rt: If you're on a posix-type terminal interface, READ-CHAR is the function that you want, but you also need to do various horrific things to the terminal settings to make it work the way that you want. 2015-12-20T02:26:01Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-12-20T02:26:32Z switchp0rt: i see 2015-12-20T02:26:38Z switchp0rt: make sense, thank you 2015-12-20T02:27:55Z cmoneylulz joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:28:13Z pjb: switchp0rt: you can type RETURN only after a line of character. 2015-12-20T02:28:50Z pjb: (loop repeat 10 collect (read-char)) RET hello world RET --> (#\h #\e #\l #\l #\o #\ #\w #\o #\r #\l) ; notice the ten chars. 2015-12-20T02:29:16Z switchp0rt: yeah, nyef I think got me seeing straight. I was trying to capture #\Tab without hitting RET 2015-12-20T02:29:56Z pjb: there's cl-charms 2015-12-20T02:30:06Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus) 2015-12-20T02:32:12Z nyef: ... How lucky is that? 2015-12-20T02:32:26Z nyef: (What's cl-charms?) 2015-12-20T02:33:36Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T02:33:37Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:34:53Z pjb: nyef: new ncurses for cl. 2015-12-20T02:35:22Z nyef: Ah. 2015-12-20T02:39:01Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-12-20T02:39:06Z JuanDaugherty missed the Jeopardy! context switch 2015-12-20T02:41:49Z JuanDaugherty: too new for ql of course 2015-12-20T02:43:04Z JuanDaugherty: # 2015-12-20T02:43:13Z JuanDaugherty: was looking for curses 2015-12-20T02:44:20Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:46:35Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T02:48:15Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T02:48:55Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T02:54:05Z cmoneylulz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T02:54:18Z guicho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T02:55:23Z emma is now known as ernrna 2015-12-20T02:56:42Z ernrna is now known as emma 2015-12-20T02:58:58Z Beetny joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:02:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T03:05:35Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T03:06:25Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T03:07:09Z lockdown joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:07:45Z Demosthenex joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:08:53Z nowhereman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T03:09:23Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T03:13:49Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2015-12-20T03:15:04Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:15:04Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T03:15:41Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:16:29Z heurist joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:17:47Z nowhere_man joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:27:25Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T03:28:17Z tristero quit (Quit: tristero) 2015-12-20T03:32:26Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T03:33:07Z lockdown quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T03:38:24Z beach joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:38:41Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2015-12-20T03:38:56Z JuanDaugherty: yello beach 2015-12-20T03:39:07Z nyef: Hello beach. 2015-12-20T03:40:17Z pillton: G'day beach. 2015-12-20T03:42:45Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:43:11Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:47:26Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T03:47:28Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T03:48:59Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:56:06Z wallyduchamp joined #lisp 2015-12-20T03:59:48Z heurist joined #lisp 2015-12-20T04:07:59Z yeticry quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T04:08:34Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-12-20T04:09:05Z yeticry joined #lisp 2015-12-20T04:13:15Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T04:42:29Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-12-20T04:45:12Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-12-20T04:49:35Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T05:00:18Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-12-20T05:02:12Z vlatkoB joined #lisp 2015-12-20T05:03:46Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T05:05:25Z badkins_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T05:08:46Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T05:09:09Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2015-12-20T05:10:37Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3) 2015-12-20T05:14:14Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T05:15:26Z heurist joined #lisp 2015-12-20T05:20:26Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2015-12-20T05:25:53Z Oladon quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-20T05:27:33Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-20T05:28:55Z guicho: pillton: https://github.com/guicho271828/inlined-generic-function 2015-12-20T05:28:56Z minion: guicho, memo from pillton: https://github.com/markcox80/specialization-store 2015-12-20T05:28:56Z minion: guicho, memo from pillton: See tests/standard-store-syntax-layer.lisp for some quick examples. 2015-12-20T05:29:13Z guicho: oh 2015-12-20T05:29:35Z guicho: ok now I see how minon works. 2015-12-20T05:30:03Z guicho: (but I noticed it on irc logs) 2015-12-20T05:30:55Z Bicyclidine: guicho: you use fixnum as a specializer in your examples - whether that works is implementation-defined. just so you know, if you didn't 2015-12-20T05:31:18Z guicho: Bicycliding: thanks. 2015-12-20T05:32:04Z Bicyclidine: well, also you have func-using-plus, but your gf is "minus"... 2015-12-20T05:32:32Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-20T05:33:35Z beach: For "Strict Common Lisp" (i.e., the updated standard) would it be reasonable to require FIXNUM to be a system class? 2015-12-20T05:34:13Z Bicyclidine: guicho: wait, did you use an actual compiler macro in here somewhere, or no? 2015-12-20T05:34:29Z Bicyclidine: oh, yeah, here it is. 2015-12-20T05:34:39Z guicho: see the code, it automatically inserts a compiler macro. 2015-12-20T05:34:48Z guicho: updated the readme a bit. 2015-12-20T05:34:53Z Bicyclidine: i just grepped "define-compiler-macro", like a fool 2015-12-20T05:35:12Z Bicyclidine: guicho: did you find that implementations called your compiler macro in a NOTINLINE environment? because my impression has been that the compiler should just not call cmfs if they're NOTINLINEd 2015-12-20T05:35:48Z guicho: https://github.com/guicho271828/inlined-generic-function/blob/master/src/1.mop.lisp#L48 2015-12-20T05:36:06Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-20T05:36:15Z Bicyclidine: yeah, i saw. 2015-12-20T05:36:50Z guicho: called your compiler macro in a NOTINLINE environment << not really sure. it is also impl-dependent, afail 2015-12-20T05:37:25Z guicho: I feel like being an expert in MOP in one day 2015-12-20T05:37:27Z Bicyclidine: clhs says "In the presence of a compiler macro definition for function-name, a notinline declaration prevents that compiler macro from being used", but that could be interpreted in multiple ways 2015-12-20T05:38:30Z guicho: well, I put an explicit code checking if it is declared notinline, using Bike's introspect-environment 2015-12-20T05:38:31Z Bicyclidine: beach: i thought i said "i don't see why not", but i didn't, so now i am saying i on't see why not. 2015-12-20T05:38:48Z Bicyclidine: guicho: ye, that's what i was wondering about. (also, i am bike, hello.) 2015-12-20T05:38:54Z beach: Bicyclidine: Thanks. 2015-12-20T05:39:08Z Bicyclidine: now in pill form. 2015-12-20T05:41:08Z guicho: hello bike=biciclidine. 2015-12-20T05:42:03Z beach: Bicyclidine: Have you been partying? 2015-12-20T05:42:05Z beach: :) 2015-12-20T05:42:06Z Bicyclidine: i see you not-include my compiler macro thing... and i think i ended up avoiding your pull request, too. i'm bad at this library thing. 2015-12-20T05:43:09Z Bicyclidine: a bit. i recite long form names of drugs as a party trick! phencyclidine is this name, but methylenedioxymethamphetamine is hard to fit in an irc nick 2015-12-20T05:44:10Z beach: True dat. 2015-12-20T05:48:02Z guicho: Bike: let me call you Bike for my finger. I see some useful ideas in Bike/compiler-macro, but it can be more purified, which is why Im not using it. 2015-12-20T05:49:58Z Bicyclidine: sure. it's pretty generally half-baked. 2015-12-20T05:50:33Z Bicyclidine: plus i'm not used to pattern matching. 2015-12-20T05:53:07Z guicho: as the first step of cutting out one useful part of it, I rewrote it in https://github.com/guicho271828/type-r . It extracts type-util.lisp as a standalone library. 2015-12-20T05:54:11Z Oladon joined #lisp 2015-12-20T05:54:27Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T05:54:49Z Oladon joined #lisp 2015-12-20T05:56:35Z guicho: pattern matchers are just a convenient syntax for writing a complex cond/case/if statements. 2015-12-20T05:57:02Z blub quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T05:58:45Z Bicyclidine: sure. 2015-12-20T06:02:52Z moei joined #lisp 2015-12-20T06:02:58Z heurist joined #lisp 2015-12-20T06:03:43Z guicho: now this inlined generic function is a small step toward C++/haskell like type classes and type arguments. 2015-12-20T06:03:44Z kolko joined #lisp 2015-12-20T06:04:06Z moei quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-20T06:09:20Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-12-20T06:10:59Z RussT2 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-12-20T06:13:46Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T06:22:14Z namespace joined #lisp 2015-12-20T06:27:45Z mac_ified quit 2015-12-20T06:30:00Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T06:30:35Z lnostdal_ joined #lisp 2015-12-20T06:30:35Z pilne quit (Quit: Quitting) 2015-12-20T06:33:47Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-20T06:44:51Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-20T06:46:02Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-12-20T06:48:13Z guicho quit (Quit: さようなら) 2015-12-20T06:48:21Z rme quit (Quit: rme) 2015-12-20T06:51:00Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T06:56:57Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3) 2015-12-20T06:59:43Z bcoburn_u joined #lisp 2015-12-20T07:01:40Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-20T07:01:46Z leb joined #lisp 2015-12-20T07:02:44Z iddqd joined #lisp 2015-12-20T07:04:48Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp 2015-12-20T07:05:24Z jegaxd26 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T07:07:15Z iddqd is now known as eazar001 2015-12-20T07:17:45Z eazar001 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T07:17:55Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T07:18:02Z Guest6344 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T07:19:52Z Bahman joined #lisp 2015-12-20T07:21:17Z meiji11 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T07:22:21Z msb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T07:22:24Z eazar001 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T07:22:34Z msb joined #lisp 2015-12-20T07:28:38Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-20T07:33:15Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T07:43:10Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-12-20T07:44:21Z leb quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2015-12-20T07:55:46Z xorox90 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T07:59:07Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:01:31Z jegaxd26 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:03:08Z leb joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:04:57Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:06:15Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T08:06:34Z jegaxd26 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T08:06:50Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:10:04Z moei joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:10:05Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:14:42Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T08:19:08Z leb quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2015-12-20T08:20:14Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:20:44Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T08:22:24Z zaquest quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-20T08:27:37Z Jonsky joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:28:18Z Jonsky: I thing I have some misunderstanding of closure. 2015-12-20T08:28:46Z aap_ is now known as aap 2015-12-20T08:30:44Z Jonsky: So I was playting with my toy meta-circular evaluator. Then I realised that everything I do in the (let...) will be evaluated in an extended environment. But here is one thing I don't understand: if I do a (defun), then the function will be bound also in the first frame of the extended environment. How can I then access this binding outside the (let ..) ? 2015-12-20T08:31:00Z malbertife joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:31:05Z Jonsky: I think* I have some misunderstanding. 2015-12-20T08:31:32Z Jonsky: and I was playing* with the toy meta-circular evaluated 2015-12-20T08:35:03Z shookees joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:35:03Z shookees quit (Changing host) 2015-12-20T08:35:03Z shookees joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:35:45Z zaquest joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:35:49Z ACE_Recliner quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-20T08:37:28Z resttime: I believe that DEFUN is a special form in the first place which is why. 2015-12-20T08:38:28Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T08:38:52Z adhoc joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:40:24Z shookees quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T08:41:15Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T08:42:21Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight) 2015-12-20T08:42:33Z resttime: Ah sorry, I wouldn't happen to know why from implementation though if that's what you were asking. 2015-12-20T08:42:53Z resttime: Err, why or how that is 2015-12-20T08:45:35Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T08:46:52Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:46:53Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T08:47:10Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:47:40Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:48:33Z resttime: Ah wait actually, I recall a "long time ago" someone gave me a link to a post explaining the implementations of closures in CCL. Let me see if I can find it. 2015-12-20T08:50:07Z Jonsky: I am strugging to understand the model of defining a function from SICP. I was so happy to finally understand the "local enviroment" thing but then now I am strugging with a new question from this new understanding. 2015-12-20T08:50:54Z fluter joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:51:45Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T08:51:57Z resttime: There we go, http://ccl.clozure.com/blog/?p=53 2015-12-20T08:52:16Z jegaxd26 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T08:52:36Z resttime: Jonsky: Oh guess it won't really help that much in that case 2015-12-20T08:53:11Z Jonsky: oh fxxk me it's assembly language XDDD 2015-12-20T08:54:02Z Jonsky: resttime: It is always good to see others explaining things in different ways. 2015-12-20T08:55:06Z resttime: Well basically to me I consider DEFUN a special form, and also happens to be a macro in SBCL 2015-12-20T08:57:51Z resttime: Though I guess more specifically "special operator," http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/m_defun.htm 2015-12-20T08:58:20Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T08:59:28Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-20T09:02:11Z nonopposition quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-20T09:04:06Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T09:04:24Z synchromesh joined #lisp 2015-12-20T09:06:47Z beknowly|desk quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-12-20T09:08:01Z beach: resttime: DEFUN is a macro. 2015-12-20T09:08:02Z Bahman quit (Quit: Ave atque vale) 2015-12-20T09:08:02Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-20T09:08:04Z beach: chls defun 2015-12-20T09:08:08Z beach: clhs defun 2015-12-20T09:08:08Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defun.htm 2015-12-20T09:08:37Z beach: resttime: So it is not a matter of what anyone considers, only of what the Common Lisp HyperSpec says. 2015-12-20T09:09:08Z beach: As it turns out, DEFUN always defines the function in the global environment. 2015-12-20T09:09:51Z beach: See the "Description:" section on that page: "Defines a new function named function-name in the global environment." 2015-12-20T09:12:13Z beach: minion: Memo for Jonsky: It is problematic to apply what you read in SICP to Common Lisp. In Scheme, defining a function with DEFINE inside a LET defines the function in the local environment. In Common Lisp, DEFUN always defines the function in the global environment. 2015-12-20T09:12:13Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell Jonsky when he/she/it next speaks. 2015-12-20T09:12:19Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T09:18:16Z DeadTrickster: beach, flet? 2015-12-20T09:19:02Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T09:21:36Z grouzen joined #lisp 2015-12-20T09:23:54Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-20T09:24:25Z reggy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T09:25:48Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-12-20T09:31:02Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T09:33:39Z adhoc quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-12-20T09:36:08Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-20T09:36:35Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T09:37:22Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-12-20T09:45:58Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-12-20T09:51:38Z jegaxd26 quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-12-20T09:51:51Z jegaxd26 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:05:34Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:15:22Z Lefeni joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:17:45Z stepnem joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:18:19Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3) 2015-12-20T10:26:05Z lnostdal__ joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:27:34Z adhoc joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:29:26Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T10:29:26Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T10:30:04Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:35:10Z ukari joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:35:11Z ukari quit (Changing host) 2015-12-20T10:35:11Z ukari joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:39:41Z ralt joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:39:57Z ralt: hi 2015-12-20T10:42:43Z yenda joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:43:02Z Posterdati: hi 2015-12-20T10:43:52Z Posterdati: please how can I execute a program from a compiled system using ecl from a shell? 2015-12-20T10:46:30Z ralt: Xach: I found a bug in gzip-stream that makes it unusable for me, and the .asd has no :author. I'm not sure I should fork for just a one-line patch. On the other hand, I haven't found any other library to gunzip to streams. Do you have any recommendation as to what to do? 2015-12-20T10:46:58Z ralt: (the homepage is supposed to be on common-lisp.net but is empty.) 2015-12-20T10:47:37Z ralt: the only way I can find is to subclass to make it usable... which is kinda ugly. 2015-12-20T10:47:39Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:49:35Z zupoman joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:50:05Z ralt: I'm not sure subclassing can work, actually. 2015-12-20T10:50:31Z ralt: an :initform without an :initarg is causing an error 2015-12-20T10:51:46Z schaueho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T10:51:55Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T10:54:46Z eazar001 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T10:56:06Z ralt: so... I can override it 2015-12-20T10:56:10Z ralt: ugly though. 2015-12-20T10:56:55Z Jonsky joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:00:20Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T11:01:14Z ralt: this is what I end up with: https://github.com/ralt/qldeb/blob/master/debian-package.lisp#L3-L7 2015-12-20T11:01:20Z lokulin quit (Changing host) 2015-12-20T11:01:20Z lokulin joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:01:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:01:34Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2015-12-20T11:01:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:02:02Z iddqd joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:02:41Z scymtym: dim: i tried esrap's improved error reporting with pgloader and it worked well afaict, i.e. all error messages were short and expected inputs seemed reasonable. i ran into a problem with WITH-MONITOR, though: it seems to spawn new lparallel threads each time it is executed. 2015-12-20T11:05:15Z scymtym: dim: the problem seems to be a missing LPARALLEL:END-KERNEL in STOP-MONITOR 2015-12-20T11:07:03Z ukari quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T11:08:37Z futpib joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:10:31Z ukari joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:10:31Z ukari quit (Changing host) 2015-12-20T11:10:31Z ukari joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:10:45Z luis: attila_lendvai: I'm sorry about yesterday. The battery on my vintage (late 2009 is vintage now) MacBook Pro died so I missed your messages. I'll reply to the bug report you've opened. 2015-12-20T11:11:20Z attila_lendvai: luis: no worries, last night I have pushed a beta that may very well be close to a v1.0 2015-12-20T11:12:34Z attila_lendvai: it uses a nasty hack: it eval's the cffi definitions into a transient package to reuse the cffi type system for decisions about whether type dependencies are met for e.g. a struct slot. this way the whole thing is ridiculously short compared to the time I spent on it. 2015-12-20T11:13:20Z attila_lendvai: https://github.com/attila-lendvai/cffi/tree/c2ffi/src/c2ffi 2015-12-20T11:14:38Z attila_lendvai: it can deal with a pretty large preprocessed C code including all of stdlib and other random stuff 2015-12-20T11:15:00Z reggy joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:15:02Z luis: Neat stuff. ;-) 2015-12-20T11:16:15Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-12-20T11:16:36Z luis: attila_lendvai: so, to answer your questions from yesterday, cffi-sys::flat-namespace is about dlopen() 2015-12-20T11:16:40Z badrihippo joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:16:56Z luis: some Lisps dlopen() libraries into a single namespace. 2015-12-20T11:17:09Z attila_lendvai: oh, ok, so it's unrelated 2015-12-20T11:17:20Z luis: so there may be collisions if you load two dlls with the same function name, for isntance. 2015-12-20T11:17:26Z attila_lendvai: luis: what's you general attitude towards a new major release breaking backwards compatibility? 2015-12-20T11:17:41Z zdm quit (Quit: = "") 2015-12-20T11:18:06Z luis: I think it's better to not break it, if feasible. :) 2015-12-20T11:18:13Z attila_lendvai: or maybe let's keep that discussion under the bug report... 2015-12-20T11:18:45Z luis: attila_lendvai: yeah, but having skimmed the bug report, it makes perfect sense 2015-12-20T11:18:52Z attila_lendvai: sure, but clutter accumulates, and then all windows end up getting boken... :) 2015-12-20T11:18:56Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T11:20:11Z luis: attila_lendvai: we can do some clutter swapping (as in carbon swapping). Some bits have been deprecated for a long time. Bare struct types, for instance. 2015-12-20T11:21:37Z luis: attila_lendvai: so, I'm fine with removing the 'foo type defined by (defcstruct foo ...). 2015-12-20T11:22:41Z luis: attila_lendvai: but, I'd rather keep it for defcenum for a while. Maybe we can add a keyword that suppresses the bare type for defcenum, so c2ffi can use it. (Not very pretty, I know.) 2015-12-20T11:23:00Z attila_lendvai: how is the new asdf version based dependency? if that works reasonably well now then people should get used to using it... I'm a repo guy who prefers dealing with reasonably managed tags and branches, but that's not the majority, and ql simplifies a lot for many people 2015-12-20T11:23:37Z luis: attila_lendvai: I have no clue. 2015-12-20T11:23:41Z attila_lendvai: luis: I opted out of defcenum in short term when I saw that it enforces keywords. I just generate a progn with defconst's and a comment before them 2015-12-20T11:24:27Z attila_lendvai: in general I'm thinking of not transforming any of the C names into lispy names in my own projects, because it just hinders understanding and development efficiency 2015-12-20T11:24:31Z luis: I don't remember why defcenum enforces keywords. It might have seem like a good idea at the time. :) Why don't you lke using keywords? 2015-12-20T11:25:02Z attila_lendvai: in fact it's a pity CL is not case sensitive, or that it's a PITA 2015-12-20T11:25:07Z noark9 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:25:31Z attila_lendvai: keywords are a good idea when you write the mapping by hand, but I hope those times will be history withing days! :) 2015-12-20T11:25:49Z Jonsky joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:26:56Z attila_lendvai: the problem with keywords is that when I generate a binding I would like to have this mindset: dear generator, here's a package name, obliterate it, make it anew, fill it mindlessly with definitions that are as close to the C side as possible, and here are some customization hooks 2015-12-20T11:27:30Z attila_lendvai: I don't want to worry about cluttering the keyword package with random stuff 2015-12-20T11:27:47Z luis: attila_lendvai: defconstant is closer to what you want then, regardless of keywords. 2015-12-20T11:28:11Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:29:30Z attila_lendvai: but on the other hand it's nice to have an enum object with a name, and the value->name mapping comes also handy sometimes 2015-12-20T11:31:12Z luis: defcenum is useful for things like (unix:open "/tmp/foo" ’(:wronly :creat) #o644) instead of (unix:open "/tmp/foo" (logior +wronly+ +creat+) #o644). 2015-12-20T11:32:20Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-20T11:33:02Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-20T11:38:09Z attila_lendvai: oh, based on the type the converter accepts a list of keywords... hrm, then I think I like defcenum! (and I also want to change it to not enforce keywords... :) 2015-12-20T11:38:09Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T11:38:37Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:41:48Z lnostdal__ is now known as lnostdal 2015-12-20T11:41:59Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:44:58Z luis: attila_lendvai: The Luís of 2015 can't think of a great reason to enforce keywords. 2015-12-20T11:45:59Z attila_lendvai: good, then I'll be liberal in what I record into commits and PR's and we'll see how to move on 2015-12-20T11:46:20Z badrihippo left #lisp 2015-12-20T11:48:53Z Jonsky joined #lisp 2015-12-20T11:48:58Z synchromesh: Does anyone have any experience with the SB-TEXINFO package in doc/docstrings.lisp in Alexandria? I'm loading it via ASDF from ABCL in Google App Engine and it's calling ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST in a read-only filesystem, but I can't see why... 2015-12-20T12:03:39Z luis: attila_lendvai: sounds good! 2015-12-20T12:04:32Z luis: synchromesh: just loading it fails? 2015-12-20T12:06:45Z synchromesh: luis: Yes... I'm trying to establish which system ASDF is trying to load at the time the call to ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST is triggered. But the path it's trying to "mkdir -p" is #P"/Volumes/SoftRAID/Users/john/.cache/common-lisp/abcl-1.4.0-dev-svn-14845m-fasl42-macosx-x64/Volumes/SoftRAID/Users/john/src/synchromesh/forumfeedme/war/fasl/alexandria/package.abcl". 2015-12-20T12:07:51Z synchromesh: luis: So it might not be the E-D-E call in Alexandria (which is in SB-TEXINFO) but one somewhere else. 2015-12-20T12:08:31Z synchromesh: luis: I have to go out now but I'll check my list of systems to load against ASDF's progress when I get back. 2015-12-20T12:08:33Z luis: synchromesh: sb-texinfo looks like something that is SBCL only, and needs to be loaded explicitly 2015-12-20T12:09:18Z luis: synchromesh: ASDF creates that directory to store fasls in. That's probably the culprit. Maybe you need to disable that behaviour, or move that directory elsewhere. 2015-12-20T12:09:47Z luis: synchromesh: see https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Controlling-where-ASDF-saves-compiled-files.html 2015-12-20T12:10:40Z synchromesh: luis: It mostly works - ASDF has already loaded 16 systems by this point. Including Alexandria, now I look at it. 2015-12-20T12:11:10Z sz0 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T12:11:31Z luis: Oh, I don't know then, sorry. 2015-12-20T12:11:40Z synchromesh: The most-recently-loaded system was CL-UTILITIES, but that doesn't seem to have any ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST calls in its codebase. 2015-12-20T12:12:45Z synchromesh: Never mind, thanks for considering my problem. I'll keep looking tonight. But describing the situation here is often helpful in itself. :) 2015-12-20T12:16:27Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T12:21:47Z MoALTz quit (Quit: bbl) 2015-12-20T12:27:41Z Nikotiini joined #lisp 2015-12-20T12:30:18Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2015-12-20T12:33:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T12:35:19Z luis: Rubber ducking works! 2015-12-20T12:37:45Z zdm quit (Quit: = "") 2015-12-20T12:47:56Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-20T12:48:30Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-12-20T12:48:36Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-12-20T12:49:40Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-12-20T12:49:40Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T12:50:14Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T12:51:44Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp 2015-12-20T12:52:55Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T13:06:09Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-20T13:06:59Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp 2015-12-20T13:08:31Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-12-20T13:10:36Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T13:13:52Z iddqd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-12-20T13:15:01Z beach: DeadTrickster: I don't know what "beach, flet?" is supposed to mean. 2015-12-20T13:18:43Z DeadTrickster: beach, you left memo for one guy mentioning the luck of local functions in CL 2015-12-20T13:19:04Z DeadTrickster: you told him something like 'let in scheme defined local function' 2015-12-20T13:19:18Z beach: *sigh* 2015-12-20T13:19:38Z DeadTrickster: yeah 2015-12-20T13:23:09Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-12-20T13:28:06Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T13:29:35Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2015-12-20T13:29:39Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T13:30:19Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2015-12-20T13:30:20Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T13:31:41Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T13:37:24Z noark9 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T13:53:14Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T13:53:15Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T13:53:31Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T13:54:27Z knicklux joined #lisp 2015-12-20T13:54:53Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:01:11Z guicho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:01:31Z LiamH joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:01:53Z k-stz joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:04:25Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T14:04:29Z k-stz: how do you document argument types? Given (defun draw-line (line) ...), I want the line to be of type "vec2". a) put into argument name line-vec2. b) put a declare in there (declare (line vec2)). c) put into doc string "expects a vec2" etc ...? 2015-12-20T14:05:14Z rme joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:05:24Z guicho: using ftype is better. 2015-12-20T14:06:18Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:06:42Z scymtym: dim: excluding whitespace and comments from error reports leads to this: http://techfak.uni-bielefeld.de/~jmoringe/pgloader-esrap-error-reports.ogv . does this seem good enough? 2015-12-20T14:16:28Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:20:45Z Lefeni quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T14:25:57Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T14:26:01Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/) 2015-12-20T14:30:49Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T14:35:07Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:35:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:35:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2015-12-20T14:35:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:36:17Z seg quit (Quit: kuwabara kuwabara) 2015-12-20T14:37:11Z seg joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:39:30Z wallyduchamp left #lisp 2015-12-20T14:48:39Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T14:49:20Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:51:36Z Demosthenex quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T14:52:04Z pjb: beach: the cost of making FIXNUM a system class would only be born on implementations, and would only be significant (AFAICS), to implementations using the same representation for all integers (eg. if you implement CL in Objective-C or Java, and implement all integers as native objects (NSInteger, Integer classes)). It might be acceptable. 2015-12-20T14:53:09Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:53:09Z oleo quit (Changing host) 2015-12-20T14:53:10Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-12-20T14:53:35Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T14:54:58Z drmeister: pjb: What does it mean to make FIXNUM a system class? 2015-12-20T14:55:09Z pjb: drmeister: that you can write methods on fixnums. 2015-12-20T14:55:16Z pjb: different from methods on integers. 2015-12-20T14:55:44Z drmeister: I see. Checking if I did that. 2015-12-20T14:56:06Z pjb: Now, this is one thing I have not considered, the impact on CLOS dispatching. If you add a system class for FIXNUM, I would argue to add one for BIT (I'd have more uses for a BIT system class than a FIXNUM personnally). 2015-12-20T14:56:21Z pjb: And then this may make dispatching on integer rather a slow proposition. 2015-12-20T14:56:46Z drmeister: I do have a FIXNUM system class but I did not set it up for dispatching. 2015-12-20T14:57:09Z pjb: It's ok, it's not ANSI CL. Just an extension some implementations have. 2015-12-20T14:57:15Z pjb: User programs should not rely on it. 2015-12-20T14:57:37Z drmeister: I understand. 2015-12-20T14:58:14Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/V3XVyNqW/ 2015-12-20T14:58:14Z pjb: beach: about the "strict" part, if you say that (a program is SCL-conforming) ⇒ (a program is CL-conforming), then the introduction of FIXNUM system class (as a conforming construct) will break this implication. 2015-12-20T14:59:06Z pjb: beach: in conclusion, you have to consider both sides of the contract: conforming implementations | conforming programs. 2015-12-20T14:59:55Z pjb: drmeister: it might be an inconvenience to programs to have a system class on which they cannot dispatch. 2015-12-20T15:00:37Z pjb: They may test whether a class exists, and define a method in that case (when (find-class 'fixnum) (defmethod m ((x fixnum)) 'f)) seems conforming code to me. 2015-12-20T15:00:45Z drmeister: How so? Would a program discover that it has a FIXNUM class and adjust it's behavior? 2015-12-20T15:00:51Z pjb: yes. 2015-12-20T15:00:55Z pjb: The above when form. 2015-12-20T15:00:58Z drmeister: its 2015-12-20T15:01:02Z drmeister: I see 2015-12-20T15:03:14Z drmeister: It's easy enough to go in and not set up the FIXNUM class, or to finish setting it up so that it could be used for dispatching. 2015-12-20T15:04:42Z drmeister: I'm just refactoring the class initialization code and exposing the source of about 1,500 C++ methods that are exposed to Common Lisp. 2015-12-20T15:07:21Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T15:09:31Z shka joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:09:32Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T15:10:21Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:19:10Z reggy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T15:19:28Z ajf- joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:20:03Z jsgrant_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T15:21:08Z reggy joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:28:03Z bcoburn_u_c joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:28:47Z eni joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:28:58Z pjb: k-stz: you document argument types using CHECK-TYPE. 2015-12-20T15:29:18Z bcoburn_u quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T15:30:11Z pjb: k-stz: you may also use a personal declaration, if you have a tool that would scan and extract them to generate the documentation. 2015-12-20T15:30:24Z ukari quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T15:31:13Z ukari joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:32:20Z beach: pjb: Right, A program that is conforming in Strict Common Lisp might not be conforming in Common Lisp. 2015-12-20T15:32:23Z zdm quit (Quit: = "") 2015-12-20T15:32:54Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:32:57Z pjb: Ok. Then it's all right to make FIXNUM a system class. 2015-12-20T15:33:14Z beach: Thanks. 2015-12-20T15:33:52Z pjb: So you are defining SCL as a strict superset of the CL language. 2015-12-20T15:34:49Z beach: That's not quite how I see it. 2015-12-20T15:35:09Z pjb: Perhaps it's just "unrelated"? 2015-12-20T15:35:20Z beach: I would have to think about that. 2015-12-20T15:35:48Z beach: There is a big difference between "implementation" and "program using the implementation". 2015-12-20T15:36:01Z pjb: Indeed, it's a co-variant/contra-variant thing. 2015-12-20T15:36:05Z guicho: clhs check-type 2015-12-20T15:36:05Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_check_.htm 2015-12-20T15:36:05Z beach: Yeah. 2015-12-20T15:37:45Z FreeBird_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T15:37:46Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T15:38:14Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:38:36Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:38:43Z guicho quit (Quit: さようなら) 2015-12-20T15:38:43Z Kathy joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:40:29Z pjb: IIRC, you wanted to do it in two steps. You could have (program p is SCL1-conforming) ⇒ (p is CL-conforming) and (program p is SCL1-conforming) ⇒ (p is SCL2-conforming), that is, SCL2-conforming programs won't necessarily be CL-conforming programs. 2015-12-20T15:42:11Z beach: I am not sure it is important to make sure that the first implication holds. People who want their programs to conform to the Common Lisp just won't rely on any features of Strict Common Lisp. 2015-12-20T15:42:36Z beach: But I haven't given it enough thought to be 100% sure of that. 2015-12-20T15:43:35Z beach: I also haven't thought about the consequences of doing what you are suggesting on the freedom to make improvements in Strict Common Lisp compared to Common Lisp. 2015-12-20T15:44:09Z beach: It just might be too restrictive. 2015-12-20T15:44:49Z beach: For example, suppose I want to say that type declarations are verified when (say) SAFETY is 3. 2015-12-20T15:45:20Z beach: I can't do that with your suggestion, because someone might write a program that relies on that behavior and then it won't be a Common Lisp program. 2015-12-20T15:45:28Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:45:29Z beach: So then I can't make that improvement. 2015-12-20T15:45:57Z beach: No? 2015-12-20T15:46:01Z beach: Am I missing something? 2015-12-20T15:46:28Z beach: I just woke up from a nap, so I am not necessarily thinking clearly. 2015-12-20T15:47:30Z beach: Add to that that I am a slow thinker even when I do think clearly. 2015-12-20T15:47:56Z mac_ified joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:49:17Z Zhivago: That's the programmer's decision not to write a CL program. 2015-12-20T15:49:48Z attila_lendvai: beach: not sure about the rest, but make sure it preserves symbol case by default... :) 2015-12-20T15:50:00Z Zhivago: All you should care about is perhaps helping the programmer not to make that decision by accident. 2015-12-20T15:50:35Z beach: Zhivago: Yeah, I tend to agree with you. 2015-12-20T15:50:37Z Zhivago: Which may involve something like disabling such extensions unless a feature is enabled. 2015-12-20T15:51:04Z beach: Very good idea. 2015-12-20T15:51:50Z beach: attila_lendvai: Sure. The requirement that a conforming Strict Common Lisp implementation is also a conforming Common Lisp implementation takes care of that. 2015-12-20T15:54:13Z cpc26 quit 2015-12-20T15:54:55Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T15:55:38Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-12-20T15:58:40Z Kathy left #lisp 2015-12-20T15:59:24Z pjb: beach: (i is a SCL-conforming implementation) ⇒ (i is a CL-conforming implementation) and (p is a CL-conforming program) ⇒ (p is a SCL-conforming program) is consistent. Having in SCL, (safety 3)⇒types are checked and FIXNUM is a system class don't break those implications. So all is good. 2015-12-20T16:00:07Z beach: Correct. 2015-12-20T16:02:11Z ajf- quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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I might just use it. Thanks. 2015-12-20T16:48:02Z hitecnologys: Although maybe I should freak out and finish that Clusivius thing. 2015-12-20T16:48:15Z axion: no prob. a lot of projects are using it lately. also check out ceramic for making a web app into a desktop app 2015-12-20T16:48:20Z hitecnologys: …Nah, not today. 2015-12-20T16:49:07Z hitecnologys: Woah, desktop apps? 2015-12-20T16:49:29Z axion: yeah it uses clack, too 2015-12-20T16:50:10Z hitecnologys: Why would anyone want to do *that*? 2015-12-20T16:50:11Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-12-20T16:50:42Z hitecnologys: I mean there's Qt, right? There's CommonQT. There's qtools! 2015-12-20T16:52:17Z axion: html/css is nice for quick and easy UI. i think it would be pretty nice for simple games and stuff 2015-12-20T16:53:13Z ajf- joined #lisp 2015-12-20T16:54:33Z hitecnologys: I think it only makes sense if you already have web application and want an offline version. If you're building from scratch, I see no reason why would anyone want to use web technologies as backbone for UI. 2015-12-20T16:55:20Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T16:55:26Z axion: it makes some sense, but not much 2015-12-20T16:55:33Z hitecnologys: Maybe. 2015-12-20T16:55:39Z axion: some people may not have admin rights to install something like QT 2015-12-20T16:55:48Z axion: also its a foreign library 2015-12-20T16:55:58Z hitecnologys: Well, you can ship Qt with your app. 2015-12-20T16:56:12Z hitecnologys: It's just dynamic library. 2015-12-20T16:56:19Z hitecnologys: Or you can link staticly. 2015-12-20T16:56:27Z axion: hitecnologys: i was wrong. ceramic uses lucerne, which uses clack. 2015-12-20T16:56:41Z hitecnologys: axion: oh, I see. 2015-12-20T16:57:14Z hitecnologys: Woosh, that's quite a stack. 2015-12-20T16:58:17Z hitecnologys: Oh, nice stuff that lucrene. 2015-12-20T16:59:26Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T16:59:32Z hitecnologys: Well, I'm packed with tech. 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I'm wanting to deserialize/serialize a graph as fast as possible 2015-12-20T19:45:04Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp 2015-12-20T19:45:19Z H4ns: circ-user-7xjxk: no. 2015-12-20T19:46:57Z Jonsky joined #lisp 2015-12-20T19:49:06Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-12-20T19:49:10Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T19:50:24Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T19:51:56Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-12-20T19:51:59Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T19:52:10Z zophy joined #lisp 2015-12-20T19:55:28Z Xach: circ-user-7xjxk: there's a trick to write #. to a file, then compile-file it. 2015-12-20T20:00:24Z timack left #lisp 2015-12-20T20:01:47Z rotty quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4-dev) 2015-12-20T20:05:56Z rhg135 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-20T20:19:00Z rhg331 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T20:19:57Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-20T20:29:09Z scymtym_ joined #lisp 2015-12-20T20:30:32Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T20:30:50Z schaueho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T20:33:15Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T20:35:50Z ajf- joined #lisp 2015-12-20T20:42:23Z attila_lendvai: circ-user-7xjxk: there's also stuff like cl-store or hu.dwim.serializer 2015-12-20T20:43:30Z attila_lendvai: circ-user-7xjxk: but keep in mind that if you don't save the whole image, then you need to make sure that it's either a self-contained graph, or you manage the unbinding/rebinding 2015-12-20T20:43:35Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-20T20:45:10Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T20:46:23Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp 2015-12-20T20:48:29Z ajf- quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2015-12-20T20:53:08Z ryan_vw_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T20:54:08Z rme joined #lisp 2015-12-20T20:58:00Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-12-20T21:03:45Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T21:06:46Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:13:40Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T21:14:16Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:16:29Z shikhin quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-20T21:17:48Z zupoman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T21:17:53Z circ-user-7xjxk quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T21:18:03Z heddwch quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T21:21:41Z leb quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2015-12-20T21:21:58Z zupoman joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:21:58Z zupoman quit (Changing host) 2015-12-20T21:21:58Z zupoman joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:23:30Z heddwch joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:24:20Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T21:24:20Z shikhin joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:25:41Z voidlily quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T21:27:26Z moore33 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:34:18Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T21:34:37Z ukari joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:39:39Z rtoym quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T21:39:41Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:42:55Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T21:54:11Z saruta joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:55:53Z Xach_ joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:56:26Z MrWoohoo2 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:56:28Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp 2015-12-20T21:59:00Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T21:59:52Z zupoman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T22:00:16Z zupoman joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:00:16Z zupoman quit (Changing host) 2015-12-20T22:00:16Z zupoman joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:01:15Z Guest6570 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:06:38Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-20T22:07:23Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-12-20T22:08:32Z drdo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T22:09:58Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-12-20T22:10:53Z heurist joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:13:06Z heddwch quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in) 2015-12-20T22:13:13Z heddwch joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:15:22Z xrash joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:16:46Z heddwch quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-20T22:17:37Z heddwch joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:17:37Z heddwch quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-20T22:18:24Z heddwch joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:20:15Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T22:21:59Z Guest17535 joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:23:35Z zotherstupidguy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T22:23:57Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:28:18Z Guest6570 quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-12-20T22:29:42Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:31:37Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:33:17Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:34:38Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-12-20T22:36:36Z jegaxd26 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T22:36:39Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:37:54Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3) 2015-12-20T22:38:54Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-20T22:39:24Z kyfho: :) 2015-12-20T22:40:21Z zophy quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-20T22:42:46Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:43:51Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:48:03Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-12-20T22:50:55Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-20T22:52:50Z leb joined #lisp 2015-12-20T22:55:16Z leb quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-20T22:56:22Z ralt: hi 2015-12-20T22:56:52Z ralt: I'd like to have (read-from-string "") to get the forms it reads, but not evaluate them 2015-12-20T22:56:59Z ralt: is there something built-in to do that? 2015-12-20T22:59:06Z ralt: doing (read-from-string "(quote ...)") doesn't work because it will still try to get symbols correctly (e.g. if a symbol doesn't exist in a package, "(foo:bar)" will throw) 2015-12-20T23:00:04Z |3b|: that is part of READing, not evaluation 2015-12-20T23:00:11Z Guest17535 left #lisp 2015-12-20T23:00:33Z ralt: |3b|: I guess my words are not the best -- but I hope you get the meaning of what I want :) 2015-12-20T23:00:33Z Fare joined #lisp 2015-12-20T23:00:47Z |3b|: unfortunately the CL spec doesn't have any provision for replacing that part of READ (without replacing pretty much all of it), so you will need another reader implementation 2015-12-20T23:01:28Z Fare: you can reimplement READ 2015-12-20T23:01:43Z ralt: Fare: you say it like it sounds so easy :P 2015-12-20T23:01:45Z axion: temporarily bind *read-eval*? 2015-12-20T23:02:31Z ralt: axion: setting it to NIL doesn't seem to work 2015-12-20T23:02:45Z |3b| thinks pjb has a reader implementation, probably agpl3 2015-12-20T23:04:03Z ralt: actually.. 2015-12-20T23:04:24Z Fare: ralt: not THAT hard. Plus there are plenty of existing implementations you can copy and modify 2015-12-20T23:04:25Z ralt: it looks like it throws a simple-reader-package-error that I could just ignore. 2015-12-20T23:04:26Z |3b|: alternately, create the package and try to READ it again :p 2015-12-20T23:04:43Z ralt: (if I hit "continue: use symbol anyway" in the debugger, it works.) 2015-12-20T23:05:14Z ralt: so with a restart-case... 2015-12-20T23:05:50Z ralt: I'm not sure I can do that programmatically though. Let me dig in. 2015-12-20T23:06:11Z |3b|: you can, though the restart itself probably isn't portable 2015-12-20T23:06:22Z voidlily joined #lisp 2015-12-20T23:06:50Z ralt: |3b|: yeah, I don't care about portability in my case 2015-12-20T23:06:57Z ralt: it's already sbcl-specific (using sb-posix) 2015-12-20T23:07:46Z happy-dude quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T23:08:46Z oleo_ joined #lisp 2015-12-20T23:10:38Z happy-dude joined #lisp 2015-12-20T23:11:11Z ralt: yay 2015-12-20T23:11:17Z ralt: (handler-bind ((sb-int:simple-reader-package-error (lambda (c) (declare (ignore c)) (continue)))) 2015-12-20T23:11:17Z ralt: (read-from-string "(asdf:defsystem-connections #:foo)")) 2015-12-20T23:11:23Z ralt: works perfectly. 2015-12-20T23:11:49Z Nikotiini quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-20T23:11:51Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T23:12:26Z Lefeni quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-20T23:15:50Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T23:17:10Z zupoman quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-20T23:17:39Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-12-20T23:18:05Z lispyone quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-12-20T23:19:52Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T23:22:45Z ukari joined #lisp 2015-12-20T23:27:12Z bcoburn_p joined #lisp 2015-12-20T23:28:44Z ralt: hm 2015-12-20T23:28:46Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T23:28:49Z ralt: I'll have to write my own reader :( 2015-12-20T23:29:06Z ralt: it can't handle stuff like (read-from-string "#.(foo)") 2015-12-20T23:30:59Z ukari quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-12-20T23:31:00Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-20T23:31:15Z kyfho joined #lisp 2015-12-20T23:32:39Z resttime: ralt: I'm curious about what kind of program you're writing. 2015-12-20T23:34:04Z ralt: resttime: a program reading .asd files and just fetching info like :author, system name, etc. Not loading the package at all. 2015-12-20T23:35:28Z ralt: so I want to read .asd files and use e.g. (second defsystem-form) to get the package name, and (getf defsystem-form :author) to get the author 2015-12-20T23:36:15Z resttime: Oh interesting, so a kind of asdf parser. 2015-12-20T23:36:54Z ukari joined #lisp 2015-12-20T23:37:13Z ralt: without all the parser overhead, really. If I could just get the raw list (i.e. what you get in a macro), it'd be what I need. 2015-12-20T23:38:18Z ralt: the project itself generates one or more debian packages based on a quicklisp release (my plan is to generate a full debian repo for all of quicklisp) 2015-12-20T23:39:23Z phoe_krk: Is there any function that will cut a string into pieces for me? Like a multiple subseq? 2015-12-20T23:39:38Z Jubb quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-20T23:39:57Z ralt: phoe_krk: uiop:split-string? 2015-12-20T23:40:41Z phoe_krk: ralt: let's say I have "123asd456fgh789jkl" that I'd like cut into six pieces, for example, so I could (cut string 3 6 9 12 15) and receive "123" "asd" "456" "fgh" "789" "jkl". 2015-12-20T23:40:52Z phoe_krk: or a list of these 2015-12-20T23:41:16Z ralt: I don't think something this specific exists, but I might be wrong. 2015-12-20T23:41:24Z phoe_krk cracks knuckles 2015-12-20T23:41:28Z phoe_krk: time to go the lisp way and make it myself 2015-12-20T23:48:02Z ralt: same for the reader :( 2015-12-20T23:51:07Z Xach_: ralt: I found that when I was reading system files without evaluating, there were at most 6 packages I had to fake up to make it work. 2015-12-20T23:51:19Z Xach_: cffi or cffi-grovel was the main one 2015-12-20T23:51:29Z Xach_: i also had to add a new function on #. 2015-12-20T23:51:32Z ralt: Xach_: the question is: how do you read without evaluating? 2015-12-20T23:51:52Z Xach_: ralt: do you mean read-time evaluation like #.? 2015-12-20T23:52:24Z ralt: Xach_: not even that, just global "transform these forms in a list" 2015-12-20T23:53:01Z Xach_: ralt: i'm not sure i understand the question, sorry. it doesn't normally evaluate? 2015-12-20T23:53:09Z Xach_: read does not evaluate unless you have #. 2015-12-20T23:53:34Z ralt: Xach_: well, it kinda does 2015-12-20T23:53:41Z ralt: e.g. it cares about packages 2015-12-20T23:53:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-20T23:54:08Z ralt: but yeah, that can be taken care of. I'm not sure how to handle #. though, indeed. 2015-12-20T23:54:18Z ralt: in the first 20 releases, I've already seen it 2015-12-20T23:54:56Z Xach_: ralt: http://paste.lisp.org/display/246995 is what i do 2015-12-20T23:54:57Z ralt: and iirc, some project bootstrapper uses #.(read readme.md) 2015-12-20T23:55:35Z Xach_: bad make-pathname in there but that's the gist 2015-12-20T23:55:39Z ralt: Xach_: thanks! 2015-12-20T23:56:06Z Xach_: i use that to produce the quicklisp update announcements 2015-12-20T23:56:15Z Xach_: scrape out the description, license, author 2015-12-20T23:56:38Z ralt: do you have this source somewhere in a, err, quicklisp library? :-) 2015-12-20T23:58:20Z ralt: Xach_ what's wrong with the make-pathname? 2015-12-20T23:59:43Z XachX: My mistake. It is ok. 2015-12-20T23:59:43Z kyfho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)