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2015-12-15T03:11:14Z spacebat`: I've been trying to make macros communicate with one another - as an experiment - I'd like one macro to create a block with a gensym name, and for macros that expand within its body to know the name of this block
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2015-12-15T03:12:09Z spacebat`: it would be simpler if there was some means of calling return-from with an evaluated block name, or go with an evaluated tag name
2015-12-15T03:13:28Z spacebat`: perhaps I should look into using throw/catch instead
2015-12-15T03:17:04Z Bike: if the block name is determined in a lexically apparent macro you shouldn't need anything to run at runtime.
2015-12-15T03:18:29Z Bike: one thing you can do is like: (defmacro with-block (&body body) (let ((name (gensym))) (block ,name (symbol-macrolet ((with-block-most-recent ,name)) ,@body))), and then you can do (defmacro my-return (form) `(return-from ,(macroexpand 'with-block-most-recent) ,form)).
2015-12-15T03:18:36Z Bike: which isn't great, but then there's nothing going on at runtime.
2015-12-15T03:18:55Z Bike: er, (defmacro my-return (form &environment env) `(return-from ,(macroexpand 'with-block-most-recent env) ,form)).
2015-12-15T03:19:10Z spacebat`: yes I'd like less going on at runtime if possible
2015-12-15T03:20:26Z spacebat`: thanks I'll give that a go
2015-12-15T03:20:51Z spacebat`: I'm playing around with implementing perl6 given...when in CL, for shits and giggles
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2015-12-15T03:22:32Z Bike: "Exactly what the EXPR argument to when does is hard to describe precisely, " Perl sure is exciting.
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2015-12-15T03:23:23Z harumph: how do you refer to the package you are currently in. like "this". *package* doesn't seem to be what i'm after.
2015-12-15T03:23:55Z |3b|: "currently" when?
2015-12-15T03:23:57Z Bike: *package* is the only "package you are currently in". Could you describe in more detail what you'd expect? Give examples, maybe?
2015-12-15T03:23:58Z spacebat`: that's the perl5 version - perl6 has a stronger type system and the semantics of when are clear I think
2015-12-15T03:24:00Z Xach: harumph: in what way does *package* not do what you expect?
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2015-12-15T03:25:15Z harumph: say i create my.package. after (in-package :my.package), if i want to refer to my.package.
2015-12-15T03:25:22Z harumph: should *package* work?
2015-12-15T03:25:26Z Bike: yes.
2015-12-15T03:25:46Z Bike: (in-package :my.package) will macroexpand into, basically, (setf *package* (find-package :my.package))
2015-12-15T03:25:49Z harumph: hmm. what if you use *package* in an exported method?
2015-12-15T03:25:51Z |3b|: yes, but if you mean while you run code defined in that package, you need to evaluate it at read or compile time
2015-12-15T03:25:58Z harumph: would *package* be the package that called the method?
2015-12-15T03:26:04Z Bike: spacebat`: i'm not sure how this is different from (let (($_ ...)) ...), but whatever.
2015-12-15T03:26:08Z |3b|: since it probably changes before you actually run the codce
2015-12-15T03:26:21Z Bike: harumph: *package* doesn't know anything about calls, or what method it's "in", or anything. it's just a dynamic variable.
2015-12-15T03:27:00Z harumph: that's my issue. is there a standard way to refer to the package that a method is defined in?
2015-12-15T03:27:37Z Bike: conceptually that's not really how it works. symbols have packages, but that's it. methods don't have packages.
2015-12-15T03:27:59Z Bike: if you want to refer to the package that the name of the method is in, well, you know it already. if you have (defmethod foo:bar ...) it's "FOO", and so on.
2015-12-15T03:28:43Z spacebat`: bike: in perl6, given and when can exist independently, but if when is used in the body of a given, then after running the body of when, the given is exited, avoiding any subsequent whens
2015-12-15T03:29:03Z harumph: Bike: that makes sense. i was looking for shorthand and was puzzled by why *package* didn't seem to be what i expected, but i see now.
2015-12-15T03:29:06Z Bike: ah, i see why you'd want the blocks then.
2015-12-15T03:29:40Z Bike: spacebat`: in that situation i'd say the normal is just to define a block named NIL, like loop does, so that the user can return in other weird names if they so desire. just my opinion
2015-12-15T03:29:47Z Bike: in other weird ways*
2015-12-15T03:30:41Z spacebat`: harumph: you could define a macro that expands to a defun and a let within the body to record the value of *package* at macroexpansion time
2015-12-15T03:30:43Z Bike: harumph: if you wanted you could have the body of a method be read in a different package than the name was read in, and so on. the shorthand would fall apart, for better or worse
2015-12-15T03:30:52Z |3b| didn't see the details, but you can close over block names and associate whatever name you like with the closure that returns from it
2015-12-15T03:31:14Z |3b|: (not to suggest that would be a good thing to do in most cases though)
2015-12-15T03:31:24Z nyef: harumph: Or use #.*package*
2015-12-15T03:31:39Z harumph: nyef: what's that?
2015-12-15T03:31:42Z spacebat`: perl semantics are beyond good and evil
2015-12-15T03:32:00Z spacebat`: #. is read-time evaluation
2015-12-15T03:32:05Z |3b|: sure, but there are better and worse ways to implement your evil :)
2015-12-15T03:32:14Z nyef: harumph: Evaluate at read-time, returning the literal package object. It's defined to be externalizable, so you should be fine to use it in source code.
2015-12-15T03:32:48Z |3b| was just addressing the suggested solution, rather than the actual problem, which might have better solutions
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2015-12-15T03:34:44Z |3b|: harumph: also consider that you might be in my-package specializing a method defined in some-other-package on a class defined in third-package, so it might not be as obvious which package you want anyway
2015-12-15T03:34:57Z |3b|: *specializing a generic function
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2015-12-15T03:35:22Z nyef: And that's before you start getting into reexporting symbols from packages and the like.
2015-12-15T03:35:29Z phf: last time this come up, i was sufficiently convinced by pjb that the correct solution is almost always to explicitly provide package name, store it in a descriptive variable if need be
2015-12-15T03:35:31Z |3b|: (or better, specializing it on a class from third-package and one from fourth-package)
2015-12-15T03:35:54Z harumph: hmm, yea, think i'll have to forget shorthand for now, though i'm glad i know about #. now
2015-12-15T03:36:30Z |3b|: yeah, in all of those cases i mean "... named by a symbol whose home package is ...", they might be accessed through some other package that imports that symbol
2015-12-15T03:36:52Z |3b|: harumph: what would it even be shorthand for?
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2015-12-15T03:37:44Z harumph: :a/pretty/long/package/name/that/uses/asdf/package-inferred-system
2015-12-15T03:37:45Z |3b|: shorthand for symbols in current package at read time is just the name of the symbol, and you probably don't want to be doing runtime symbol lookups just to save some typing
2015-12-15T03:38:24Z |3b|: hmm, limit yourself to an implementation that supports package-local-nicknames, or relative packages?
2015-12-15T03:38:43Z |3b|: (sbcl+abcl and one of the commerecial implementations respectively, i think)
2015-12-15T03:39:24Z |3b|: though not sure the relative package syntax would match that, i think it might use #\. as a separator?
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2015-12-15T03:40:02Z |3b|: and doesn't help if the paths aren't similar anyway
2015-12-15T03:41:31Z |3b|: i think i recently saw a reader macro for portable package aliases (portable at the expense of a few extra characters for the read macro), which might be another option
2015-12-15T03:42:28Z harumph: |3b|: thanks, i'll look around for that.
2015-12-15T03:42:29Z |3b| won't suggest the tricks involving temporarily renaming packages or adding nicknames though, they seem a bit messy
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2015-12-15T03:43:18Z phf: (i had a pattern like (funcall (intern (concat "COMMAND-" name) #.*package*)) in package #:foo, and the conclusion was, replace #.*package* with *commands-package*, which is explicitly set to #:foo)
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2015-12-15T05:00:58Z beach: minion: forget my memos.
2015-12-15T05:00:59Z minion: You didn't have any memos!
2015-12-15T05:01:12Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2015-12-15T05:01:17Z oleo__: morning beach
2015-12-15T05:01:52Z blub: hi beach
2015-12-15T05:02:49Z nyef: Hello beach.
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2015-12-15T05:05:24Z beach: Short status report: I am making significant progress on the tests and the documentation of Cluffer: http://metamodular.com/cluffer.pdf
2015-12-15T05:05:25Z beach: I think it will take another few days before it is in a state where I can declare it done.
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2015-12-15T05:09:20Z loke: beach: Does it have anything to do with Fluffers?
2015-12-15T05:09:40Z loke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluffer
2015-12-15T05:09:49Z beach: It does not.
2015-12-15T05:10:04Z nyef: Hunh. I think I've just found a reason to use `(... ,@`(...)).
2015-12-15T05:10:05Z beach: But it will be used in Second Climacs, if that counts.
2015-12-15T05:14:49Z spacebat`: Climacs change is a conspiracy
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2015-12-15T13:56:48Z phoe_krk: nyef: what was that traversal something thing that you so wonderfully abused Lisp with?
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2015-12-15T14:59:01Z phf: beach: i'm excited about cluffer!
2015-12-15T15:01:22Z phf: i've been using emacs style ghetto parsing more and more in my throwaway scripts, i.e. (with-temp-buffer (insert (drakma:...)) (re-search-forward "blah blah")), so i'll take a stab at moving some of them to cluffer which will give a nice stress test
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2015-12-15T15:03:26Z namespace: phf: 'emacs style ghetto parsing' I lol'd.
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2015-12-15T15:05:10Z phf: :)
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2015-12-15T15:09:42Z phf: actually friend of mine called the approach "landmark parser". "there should be a foo which is followed by bar a little bit later, but if you see qux, then you need to backtrack to baz"
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2015-12-15T16:10:27Z switchp0rt: is there a way to use (let ...) to create variables from a function that returns multiple variables? I am trying to use drakma:http-request which returns (body status and some others)
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2015-12-15T16:11:07Z jsnell: switchp0rt: no. use multiple-value-bind
2015-12-15T16:11:23Z switchp0rt: and that gives the variables scope within my function?
2015-12-15T16:11:57Z jsnell: no, but it gives them the same scope as LET would
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2015-12-15T17:44:12Z Jonsky: Anyone used org mode to play with Lisp?
2015-12-15T17:44:40Z Jonsky: I tried to do someone like (mapcar #'identity '(Mama I just killed someone))
2015-12-15T17:44:48Z Jonsky: Then the result looks pretty ugly.
2015-12-15T17:45:11Z Jonsky:      #+RESULTS:
2015-12-15T17:45:12Z Jonsky:      | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
2015-12-15T17:45:25Z Jonsky: oh not this
2015-12-15T17:45:43Z Jonsky:      #+RESULTS:
2015-12-15T17:45:43Z Jonsky:      | MAMA | I | JUST | KILLED | SOMEONE |
2015-12-15T17:45:48Z Jonsky: This one
2015-12-15T17:46:34Z scymtym: Jonsky: add :results scalar to the SRC block
2015-12-15T17:46:48Z scymtym: as in #+BEGIN_SRC lisp :results scalar
2015-12-15T17:47:48Z nyef: Hrm. I never really got into trying to use org-mode for literate programming beyond some initial experiments.
2015-12-15T17:48:09Z Jonsky: Now the result is blank :(
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2015-12-15T17:48:52Z Jonsky: I am still learning and I am quite a forgetful person so I thought it's a good way to keep a record. Like a sketchbook for programming.
2015-12-15T17:49:36Z scymtym: Jonsky: maybe we have different versions of org-mode. you could try :results value scalar instead
2015-12-15T17:50:39Z scymtym: if that doesn't help, maybe ask in the #emacs or #org-mode channel
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2015-12-15T17:52:54Z Jonsky: scymtym: It still doesn't work but thanks for the tips. I will try #emacs.
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2015-12-15T17:55:55Z Jonsky: scymtym: I tried a bit and I found only :results pp does the trick.
2015-12-15T17:56:01Z _death: Jonsky: ugly how? that's how it's supposed to look
2015-12-15T17:56:18Z PuercoPop: Jonsky: recently I learned that ob-lisp reads the results from lisp in emacs lisp so it is bound to have problems
2015-12-15T17:56:19Z Jonsky: _death: I want a list not a table.
2015-12-15T17:56:25Z Jonsky: I like parentheses
2015-12-15T17:57:26Z Jonsky: And I learn lisp not because it's powerful or elegant. Just because it has enough parenthese to make my code with rainbow-delimiter looks pretty LOL
2015-12-15T17:57:31Z _death: well the point is you can pass tables around to snippets written in different languages
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2015-12-15T18:01:05Z Jonsky: Hm... n00b moment, any example of passing list as tables in orgmode that can be used by other languages?
2015-12-15T18:01:24Z Jonsky: It sounds very useful.
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2015-12-15T18:02:21Z _death: Jonsky: http://www.howardism.org/Technical/Emacs/literate-devops.html
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2015-12-15T18:13:39Z nyef: _death: That looks interesting. And possibly relevant to the day job, as it were. Thanks.
2015-12-15T18:14:14Z _death: I use it at work, doing SQL queries and computations on the results
2015-12-15T18:17:05Z mordocai: Yeah, that looks really cool _death.  I'm going to save that for later
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2015-12-15T18:36:22Z Jonsky: _death: Thanks for the link!! It looks so good!
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2015-12-15T18:38:23Z _death: np
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2015-12-15T19:24:38Z BIGBOOMBA: Hi guys, I'm having some trouble setting up Emacs+SBCL+SLIME on Ubuntu 12.10 (I know, I know...). I've tried Emacs 23 and 24, old SBCL, SBCL 1.3.x, etc. I believe there's something wrong with the .el file(s) or how I'm loading them in my .emacs.
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2015-12-15T19:25:16Z BIGBOOMBA: I'm going to get the exact versions that I'm using, the paths to executables, and my .emacs and put them in a paste. If anyone could take a look, I'd really appreciate it!
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2015-12-15T19:28:47Z jasom: BIGBOOMBA: by far the easiest way is with quicklisp-slime-helper
2015-12-15T19:28:51Z jackdaniel: BIGBOOMBA: how did you get slime? if you did get it from the ubuntu repos, then don't use it. Rely on slime provided by quicklisp
2015-12-15T19:29:31Z jackdaniel: swank/slime versions are tightly coupled afaik, so even slight mismatch may result in problems
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2015-12-15T19:35:30Z BIGBOOMBA: Thanks guys, I'll report back shortly.
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2015-12-15T19:47:31Z BIGBOOMBA: SBCL is choking on this file: /home/jesse/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/slime-20131003-cvs/swank-sbcl.lisp
2015-12-15T19:47:42Z BIGBOOMBA: http://pastebin.com/JAtcHBSF
2015-12-15T19:48:37Z jasom: BIGBOOMBA: maybe you need to update quicklisp?
2015-12-15T19:48:50Z Bike: yeah, 2013?
2015-12-15T19:50:18Z BIGBOOMBA: Yeah, the quicklisp.lisp I got was from the quicklisp site, https://www.quicklisp.org/beta/#installation
2015-12-15T19:50:29Z BIGBOOMBA: I'll look for a newer version.
2015-12-15T19:50:43Z Bike: no, that should be fine. did you get it, like, recently?
2015-12-15T19:50:43Z jasom: BIGBOOMBA: (ql:update-dist "quicklisp")
2015-12-15T19:50:48Z Bike: well, try... yeah, that.
2015-12-15T19:51:10Z BIGBOOMBA: Bike, I just downloaded it now heh
2015-12-15T19:51:54Z jasom: 20150709 is thd current slime in quicklisp
2015-12-15T19:51:56Z BIGBOOMBA: jasom, that is downloading a ton of stuff, so probably a good sign.
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2015-12-15T19:53:42Z jasom: BIGBOOMBA: you might want to do a (ql:update-client) after that too
2015-12-15T19:54:24Z BIGBOOMBA: Thanks. And yeah, after the (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") I was able to run (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") with no problems. Thank you!
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2015-12-15T19:55:09Z Jonsky: I will go through this one day. (Still haven't installed quicklisp)
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2015-12-15T19:56:00Z BIGBOOMBA: As always, it looks like if I had RTFM (in this case the quicklisp page) more carefully, I would have been fine.
2015-12-15T19:56:22Z BIGBOOMBA: There are just a lot of FMs :)
2015-12-15T19:56:29Z jasom: I remember the Bad Old Days before quicklisp, where any time I needed some functionality I had to decide between spending several hours getting a library to work and several hours implementing the 5% of that library that I needed to continue with what I was doing
2015-12-15T19:57:45Z jasom: I no longer sit in a corner rocking back and forth when someone says "asdf-install" so that's an improvement :)
2015-12-15T19:58:22Z BIGBOOMBA: The old Deitel (sp?) & Deitel C/C++ book talks about a future utopia where there's a library for everything, and we put them together like legos. I feel that right now there's an issue with there being too many libraries and them not playing nicely with one another without a lot of hammering.
2015-12-15T19:59:38Z BIGBOOMBA: Trying to create The Solution(TM) to library/dependency/integration management is probably general-AI-complete though :)
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2015-12-15T20:03:21Z BIGBOOMBA: aaaaaaaand SUCCESS! Thanks guys. I've popped in here several times over the past couple of years and I've always gotten good help. Anyone who says that LISP has a "community problem" is off-base.
2015-12-15T20:03:38Z BIGBOOMBA: One day, when I'm a LISP hacker, I'll lurk in here and help n00bs.
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2015-12-15T20:04:53Z jackdaniel: you may help already – if someone pops in with slime/swank problem for instance ;-)
2015-12-15T20:06:25Z BIGBOOMBA: I'll hang out in here while I play with SLIME and look for low-hanging fruit :)
2015-12-15T20:06:27Z Jonsky: I will definitely ask, one day.
2015-12-15T20:06:40Z BIGBOOMBA: Off to have lunch now, though--bbl. Thanks again.
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2015-12-15T20:36:37Z dreamaddict: hey, let’s say as a project I wanted to make a streaming media server…what would be the best LISP for that?
2015-12-15T20:36:51Z dreamaddict: assuming that I could take the time to work with any of them
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2015-12-15T20:40:45Z mordocai: dreamaddict: Well, this is the Common Lisp channel (##lisp is the general channel) but I'd say any Lisp with a good CFFI would be good. Clojure might work as well if java has good libraries for it.
2015-12-15T20:41:13Z dreamaddict: oh, forgot this was the CL channel
2015-12-15T20:41:45Z mordocai: Yeah, happens all the time :)
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2015-12-15T20:42:49Z dreamaddict: yeah I saw there were some other LISPs that can convert more easily to other languages, etc.
2015-12-15T20:44:11Z mordocai: Personally i'd probably want to use like ffmpeg or something so Common Lisp with the CFFI would probably work for m.e
2015-12-15T20:44:23Z mordocai: I haven't researched how to write a media server though, so *shrug*
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2015-12-15T20:47:55Z dreamaddict: well I’ve researched…very little…it seems easy enough to knock together in LISP
2015-12-15T20:48:20Z dreamaddict: at least, I’ve read two books where setting up a simple server is very easy
2015-12-15T20:48:30Z dreamaddict: have not looked at all into how the FFI works
2015-12-15T20:49:41Z mordocai: dreamaddict: Assuming you need ffmpeg, this is probably out of date but shows how to do CFFI bindings https://github.com/zkat/cl-ffmpeg. There's also https://github.com/rpav/cl-autowrap which is pretty cool.
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2015-12-15T20:53:52Z Jonsky: I have a problem with slime.
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2015-12-15T20:54:26Z Jonsky: So before I could use inferior-lisp just fine. I could just C-c C-e the s-exp then it's evaluated
2015-12-15T20:54:32Z Jonsky: Now I cannot.
2015-12-15T20:54:49Z Jonsky: and I got an error if I try C-c C-j
2015-12-15T20:54:50Z AlphaAtom: Heya, if I have a function returning lambda's, how can I use recursion within those lambdas?
2015-12-15T20:55:10Z Jonsky: It says SWANK-REPL doesn't exist.
2015-12-15T20:56:03Z Bike: AlphaAtom: just call the functions you want to call?
2015-12-15T20:56:12Z Bike: or do you mean you want a lambda to call itself?
2015-12-15T20:56:20Z AlphaAtom: yeah, I want the lambda to call itself
2015-12-15T20:56:35Z mordocai: Jonsky: are you loading slime through (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") and set it up like it says?
2015-12-15T20:57:07Z Jonsky: hm....nope. I just installed slime from package-list-package on emacs.
2015-12-15T20:57:08Z Bike: AlphaAtom: (labels ((some-name ...)) #'some-name) is a common idiom
2015-12-15T20:58:25Z mordocai: Jonsky: Yeah, the best/easiest way to do it is through quicklisp. You'd want to remove the emacs package too.
2015-12-15T20:58:58Z spacebat: Jonsky: or use a slime checkout from git
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2015-12-15T20:59:30Z spacebat: slime-repl and a bunch of other things used to be loaded by default IIRC but now you have to configure it to do so
2015-12-15T20:59:43Z Jonsky: argh, I was just trying to be lazy as I don't know yet how to play with quicklisp. I should have been less lazy.
2015-12-15T21:00:16Z spacebat: quicklisp does make it easy, as it helps ensure your lisp is talking to the corresponding swank version
2015-12-15T21:01:06Z Jonsky: OK I will RTFM now. Thank you people for the help.
2015-12-15T21:01:08Z spacebat: http://www.cliki.net/slime%20tips
2015-12-15T21:01:12Z spacebat: cheers
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2015-12-15T21:01:53Z mordocai is using sly now, but doesn't recommend it to newbies yet.
2015-12-15T21:03:16Z Jonsky is secretly checking out sly.
2015-12-15T21:03:42Z mordocai: Noooooo lol
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2015-12-15T21:04:48Z Jonsky: OMG there's a cat !!
2015-12-15T21:05:04Z axion: sly is nice
2015-12-15T21:05:25Z axion: i switched a month ago. quite enjoying it
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2015-12-15T21:06:33Z mordocai: Yeah, I like it. I just don't necessarily want to recommend it to new lispers since it is still considered beta
2015-12-15T21:07:29Z axion: right, but even so, i found a couple bugs that have been fixed same-day. the maintainer is excellent at responding to feedback and trying to make it better
2015-12-15T21:08:33Z mordocai: True true
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2015-12-15T22:09:35Z PuercoPop: mordocai: there is an ocassional issue now and then but joao fixes them quite quickly. And when one has a need that the current API doesn't address tries his best to incorporate it. As he did with axion recently or when I needed to apply propties on the output to be written to the repl bufer (#38)
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2015-12-15T22:11:37Z mordocai: PuercoPop: Yeah, i'm not really trying to say it is unstable. I just generally refuse to recommend anything to noobies that still labels itself as beta
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2015-12-15T22:13:05Z dwchandler: except quicklisp ;-)
2015-12-15T22:13:40Z mordocai: Ooh, yeah. That's an exception. No real alternative for one thing!
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2015-12-15T22:15:33Z dwchandler: fwiw, I agree about newbies and beta, as a rule.
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2015-12-15T22:16:54Z PuercoPop: mordocai I don't think that such blanket rule is hardly useful. There are more important issues when evaluating software, but to each its own.
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2015-12-15T22:18:02Z PuercoPop: I'm curious is there is a plan to merge some of the improvements of sly now that the previous maintainer resigned over a tantrum
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2015-12-15T22:18:55Z mordocai: PuercoPop: Do you have a link to that btw? I've heard that in a couple places but haven't actually seen the resignation or the convo that led to it.
2015-12-15T22:19:35Z |3b|: slime mailing list has transfer of maintainer, no idea about the background
2015-12-15T22:19:44Z PuercoPop: mordocai: it is the github's commit commeents
2015-12-15T22:20:12Z PuercoPop: He basically told stas to revert something, stats refused and he called him an idiot and send an email
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2015-12-15T22:20:37Z PuercoPop: *sent
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2015-12-15T22:20:58Z PuercoPop: https://github.com/slime/slime/commit/1615c0aaf9f905f32a0b09a2d3b0a6f3554740c5
2015-12-15T22:24:38Z mordocai: Heh, I would have just said "that's fine, I reverted it for you". Oh well. My guess is they didn't really want to be maintainer anymore anyway
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2015-12-15T22:27:51Z PuercoPop: I do agree with him that a more granular (on a file and package basis) to swank would be a good thing. Currently backend.lisp is a 1500 line file with multiple page breaks.
2015-12-15T22:28:29Z mordocai: Yeah, I don't have the background knowledge of the codebase to have an opinion on the actual topic of disagreement.
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2015-12-15T22:32:34Z PuercoPop: Well the topic of disagreement is another one.
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2015-12-15T22:38:50Z Xach_: PuercoPop: thanks for the link. i was wondering what the email was all about.
2015-12-15T22:40:34Z BIGBOOMBA: So, right now my workflow is to have the lisp file I'm working on in the top window, and the SLIME repl in the bottom window. I enter a form into the file, go to the end, C-x C-e, and then test in the REPL.
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2015-12-15T22:40:47Z BIGBOOMBA: Is this the standard workflow, or is there a better way?
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2015-12-15T22:43:04Z pillton: BIGBOOMBA: I use C-c C-c (slime-compile-defun) and C-c C-k (slime-compile-and-load-file) a lot of the time.
2015-12-15T22:43:54Z BIGBOOMBA: Also curious if anyone has experience with deploying a web app via hunchentoot. I've got Emacs+SBCL+SLIME running on my workstation, and SBCL+Hunchentoot+nginx frontend on my server.
2015-12-15T22:44:07Z BIGBOOMBA: Nothing there yet, but I did set up a domain to play with: www.findingthesandwich.com
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2015-12-15T22:44:24Z pillton: BIGBOOMA: C-c C-z to switch to the repl and use M-p and M-n to cycle through old inputs.
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2015-12-15T22:45:06Z BIGBOOMBA: Thanks for the tips, pillton. I do have the SLIME manual open, but one can spend all day optimizing one's workflow and getting no work done :O
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2015-12-15T22:47:48Z PuercoPop: Xach_: np, although I try to avoid 'negative' comments about lisp, lispers have that covered already
2015-12-15T22:48:39Z pillton: PuercoPop: I'm not sure I agree with that. I think the community is great.
2015-12-15T22:48:53Z BIGBOOMBA: You guys in this channel are always helpful.
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2015-12-15T22:51:14Z BIGBOOMBA: Wasn't a good chunk of the community's bad rap due to that genius/troll who posted to the lisp newsgroup a million times and recently passed away?
2015-12-15T22:51:26Z Zhivago: big: If you never get any work done, you can make your workflow optimal easily.
2015-12-15T22:52:14Z Zhivago: Naggum died about 6 years ago -- not so recent.
2015-12-15T22:53:53Z PuercoPop: pillton: I think it is great too, albeit a little small. But I'm referring to the fact that we get caught in the negative details instead of the sea of good ideas. I've talked to 2 well known lispers and corresponded with a 3rd one. 2 told me Lisp is dead and the other one that is has no future (of course he afterwards proceeded to say lisp is still ahead after 20 years). We have enough bad press with ESR's characte
2015-12-15T22:53:53Z PuercoPop: rization.
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2015-12-15T22:56:55Z pillton: Who is ESR?
2015-12-15T22:57:04Z nyef: Effective Series Resistance?
2015-12-15T22:57:14Z PuercoPop: Eric Raymond
2015-12-15T22:57:43Z PuercoPop: 'Lisp is nirvana but useless for practical work'
2015-12-15T22:58:57Z Zhivago: Probably the most damning problem is 'lisp does not play well with others'. :)
2015-12-15T22:59:21Z pillton: What does that mean?
2015-12-15T22:59:29Z pillton: What does play well mean?
2015-12-15T22:59:52Z Zhivago: Generally to have good integration with things written in other languages.
2015-12-15T23:00:03Z nyef: Java doesn't play well with others either, AIUI.
2015-12-15T23:00:13Z pillton: That is what sockets and files are for.
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2015-12-15T23:00:57Z mordocai: I have yet to find a language that "plays well with others"
2015-12-15T23:03:05Z PuercoPop: mordocai: C kinda, (or is it more a other languages play well with C?)
2015-12-15T23:03:48Z dwchandler: yeah, I think other langs support C more than anything
2015-12-15T23:03:52Z mordocai: PuercoPop: I'd say the latter personally
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2015-12-15T23:11:01Z rick-monster: my empirical observation is that lispers get to work on cool stuff.  Everything else is white noise!
2015-12-15T23:12:36Z jasom: BIGBOOMBA: C-c C-k is my most commonly used shortcut, most files compile in a fraction of a second, so I rarely need the more fine-grained compilation commands
2015-12-15T23:12:57Z BIGBOOMBA: Nice.
2015-12-15T23:13:02Z jasom: BIGBOOMBA: also if you haven't discovered it: M-.
2015-12-15T23:13:12Z mordocai: Yeah, M-. rules
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2015-12-15T23:15:08Z BIGBOOMBA: *types M-. blindly to see what happens*
2015-12-15T23:15:28Z jasom: BIGBOOMBA: hover over the name of a function first, then type it
2015-12-15T23:15:35Z jasom: s/hover/move the cursor to/
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2015-12-15T23:18:16Z pillton: jasom: Not as much as C-c C-d h !
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2015-12-15T23:20:38Z jasom: I've actually never used that
2015-12-15T23:20:45Z jasom: haven't gotten it configured
2015-12-15T23:20:51Z pillton slaps his forehead. 
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2015-12-15T23:22:41Z PuercoPop: jasom: you don't need to configure it, it should use xdg-open to call your default browser
2015-12-15T23:23:01Z jasom: PuercoPop: gives me mozilla not found
2015-12-15T23:23:49Z PuercoPop: which distro do yo use? I remember some ad-hoc shit in the emacs implementation from source diving a while a ago
2015-12-15T23:23:52Z pillton: jasom: C-h f browse-url
2015-12-15T23:24:21Z jasom: PuercoPop: I don't even see xdg-open as an option
2015-12-15T23:24:49Z PuercoPop: C-h v browse-url-browser-function
2015-12-15T23:25:02Z PuercoPop: mine is browser-url-xdg-open
2015-12-15T23:25:31Z jasom: PuercoPop: not an option for me
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2015-12-15T23:26:38Z PuercoPop: ahh It appears I set it in emacs.d try (setq browse-url-browser-function #'browse-url-xdg-open)
2015-12-15T23:26:53Z jasom: got it set up; I had to customize two variables (set it to launch firefox, and then tell it where firefox is)
2015-12-15T23:27:21Z jasom: only slightly faster than tabbing to my browser and searching there
2015-12-15T23:27:58Z pillton admires jasom's emacs/browser switching speed.
2015-12-15T23:27:58Z jasom: and inferior, as in my browser I can search for format tokens, and this only appears to search for symbols
2015-12-15T23:28:22Z PuercoPop: jasom: there is a separate command for format
2015-12-15T23:28:46Z jasom: in firefox I just C-l clhs ~% RET
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2015-12-15T23:30:30Z jasom: I find it easier to hit meta- or hyper-tab than most shortcuts since I can hit the modifier with my thumb and the tab with my middle finger; with C-c I have to either move both hands or use a pinky
2015-12-15T23:31:10Z jasom: so H-TAB C-l I only have to move my left hand from the home row and have no pinkies involved
2015-12-15T23:32:02Z PuercoPop: hyperspec-lookup-format (don't use it so had to search for it). I use xach.com/clhs most of time (when the symbol I want to lookup is not at point)
2015-12-15T23:32:22Z jasom: PuercoPop: yeah, and I have "clhs" shortcutted to that
2015-12-15T23:33:27Z jasom: there's another one that also searches mop that I've considered switching to, but I cant find the url at the moment
2015-12-15T23:33:41Z PuercoPop: jasom: l1sp.org ?
2015-12-15T23:33:47Z PuercoPop: it searches alexandria as well
2015-12-15T23:34:13Z jasom: PuercoPop: that'st hte one
2015-12-15T23:34:14Z PuercoPop: I use it when I'm not sure what I'm looking for. Like the m-v-b notation
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2015-12-15T23:35:11Z jasom: seems to search pcl as well
2015-12-15T23:38:44Z PuercoPop: The only thing that would be better would be that quickdocs did a similar things for all the packages in quicklisp
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