2015-05-15T00:01:14Z clop2 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T00:03:03Z kristof joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:05:13Z harish__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T00:07:34Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T00:08:43Z innertracks quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T00:12:53Z idafyaid is now known as bebilonu
2015-05-15T00:13:45Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-05-15T00:14:17Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:14:26Z haasn joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:15:43Z haasn: Lua “advertises” itself as being a language engineered towards embedded scripting, eg. in a C program - I can easily provide C functions to Lua scripts, and I can easily call Lua scripts from C. In addition to this, the interpreter is small and runs with a low footprint. Are there any dialects and/or implementations of Lisp that are engineered towards a similar use case?
2015-05-15T00:15:59Z Bike: ecl, i think.
2015-05-15T00:16:32Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-05-15T00:19:38Z solyd__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T00:20:55Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T00:21:44Z jasom: haasn: ecl, though it has a medium footprint; there are nearly 1000 symbols in the common lisp specification, so depending on your definition of "small" you might need too look elsewhere
2015-05-15T00:22:31Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:23:13Z jasom: haasn: also there are some highly performant lisp implementations, it is more common to write the core of your application in lisp; base lua (i.e. not luajit) was clearly not able to fit that bill
2015-05-15T00:23:32Z haasn: Hmm, judging by the wikipedia article, ECL operates by compiling down to C? This does not sound like what I want; I want a system where I can have a program that loads a lisp script at runtime and, with as little overhead as possible, interprets a few lines of code (without having to call out to a C compiler, for example)
2015-05-15T00:23:49Z bcoburn quit
2015-05-15T00:23:52Z haasn: Basically, my program is already written in C and that is not very likely to change
2015-05-15T00:25:16Z kristof: haasn: You're talking about two things. One, quick startup for scripting, and two, C interop
2015-05-15T00:25:43Z haasn: kristof: Yes; although the latter is a requirement, and the former is just a desirable property
2015-05-15T00:25:59Z _death: haasn: you can check out https://github.com/sbp/hedgehog
2015-05-15T00:26:06Z kristof: haasn: cl-launch and shelly are both very good at the "quickstartup" thing. Look into those. As for C interop, SBCL is probably the best at that, although my experience in that is limited.
2015-05-15T00:26:32Z haasn: I'm mainly trying to explore the possible ways to replace Lua. I do not think Lua is a very pretty language, and would prefer something similar to Lisp in principle, especially because it allows me to also use s-exprs for program configuration, for example
2015-05-15T00:26:45Z haasn: Right now I am using Lua for this job and it works more or less well
2015-05-15T00:27:59Z haasn: (I suppose JavaScript is another example of a language that is designed for use like this; ie. as a scripting component of a much larger program, probably written in C or C++, that is designed to make it easy to interop with the host program's native capabilities via an FFI like the DOM)
2015-05-15T00:30:13Z _death: haasn: ECL doesn't have to compile down to C, it can also just interpret
2015-05-15T00:30:14Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T00:30:46Z haasn: http://blog.davber.com/2006/09/07/embedded-lisp-via-lua/ amusing
2015-05-15T00:31:19Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2015-05-15T00:32:10Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:32:10Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:32:11Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:32:35Z _death: if you can stomach Scheme you can also look at guile.. and if you don't mind adding your own C<->Lisp interfacing, you can check out the various lisp500 or lisp5000
2015-05-15T00:33:00Z Jesin joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:34:04Z haasn: I'm mostly impartial to Scheme vs Lisp; I don't actually know much about their differences, other than that CL seems to be more complex (larger) than Scheme
2015-05-15T00:34:54Z Bike: this channel is devoted to cl, so you might want to ask #scheme and such
2015-05-15T00:39:36Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:43:11Z emaczen joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:44:04Z linux_dream joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:45:44Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T00:46:05Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T00:48:21Z pyon quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T00:49:59Z emaczen2 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:55:57Z emaczen2: is openmcl-devel@clozure.com the correct mailing list for posting a question about getting the currency-converter cocoa example to work?
2015-05-15T00:58:26Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T00:59:31Z CrazyWoods quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-05-15T01:00:26Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2015-05-15T01:01:02Z pyon joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:01:31Z emaczen2 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2015-05-15T01:02:11Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2015-05-15T01:02:14Z emaczen quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2015-05-15T01:04:17Z emaczen joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:08:02Z harish__ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:08:45Z warweasle joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:10:37Z druid_greeneyes quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T01:10:52Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2015-05-15T01:11:52Z badkins quit
2015-05-15T01:14:42Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T01:15:49Z Adlai joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:17:18Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T01:19:36Z pjb joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:20:00Z pjb is now known as Guest76013
2015-05-15T01:20:15Z sz0 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T01:22:56Z Guest76013 is now known as pjb`
2015-05-15T01:23:08Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2015-05-15T01:23:24Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T01:23:48Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:25:00Z sz0 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:25:50Z aap_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:29:10Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T01:32:47Z frkout joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:32:55Z jlongster joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:36:41Z kvsari joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:43:51Z emaczen: What is the correct CCL mailing list for a question about getting the currency-converter sample cocoa app to correctly build and run?
2015-05-15T01:45:51Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T01:46:16Z lemonpepper24_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:49:45Z bgs100 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:52:17Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:52:30Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T01:52:38Z warweasle quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T01:55:06Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-05-15T01:55:07Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2015-05-15T01:57:15Z enitiz_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T01:57:50Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T01:58:15Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T01:59:05Z Intensity quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2015-05-15T02:00:12Z pjb: emaczen: Perhaps bug-openmcl@clozure.com
2015-05-15T02:05:37Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:08:14Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2015-05-15T02:08:16Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T02:09:12Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T02:10:58Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:13:24Z blackwolf quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2015-05-15T02:14:30Z emaczen: pjb: I already sent an email to openmcl-devel@clozure.com -- is that a problem?
2015-05-15T02:14:39Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T02:14:48Z pjb: emaczen: probably not.
2015-05-15T02:22:18Z Longlius joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:22:45Z alusion quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2015-05-15T02:24:26Z keen____ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:25:38Z keen___ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T02:26:18Z nell joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:34:07Z Denommus joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:35:05Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:36:28Z Tenobrus joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:43:24Z badkins joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:49:46Z bb010g joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:53:29Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-05-15T02:55:23Z pranavrc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T03:00:02Z badkins quit
2015-05-15T03:00:36Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100)
2015-05-15T03:00:44Z emaczen: How many clozure associates are there? When could I expect to hear back from the mailing list?
2015-05-15T03:16:16Z mbuf joined #lisp
2015-05-15T03:20:07Z cluck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T03:20:15Z capcar quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T03:20:30Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2015-05-15T03:20:30Z Mon_Ouie quit (Changing host)
2015-05-15T03:20:30Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2015-05-15T03:21:34Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2015-05-15T03:26:55Z Davidbrcz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T03:29:17Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-05-15T03:31:48Z smokeink joined #lisp
2015-05-15T03:35:51Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-05-15T03:37:57Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T03:39:00Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T03:40:45Z clop2 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T03:40:55Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-05-15T03:47:18Z PuercoPop: Anyone has used both s-sql/postmodern and rdbms/perec care to weight in on their differences?
2015-05-15T03:49:55Z badkins joined #lisp
2015-05-15T03:51:52Z thinkpad quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-05-15T03:59:05Z theos quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T03:59:23Z eazar001_nondet quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-05-15T04:00:10Z theos joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:01:54Z thinkpad joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:04:17Z tianyu joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:04:47Z Tenobrus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T04:05:28Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:06:45Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:07:02Z smokeink joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:08:49Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:09:56Z beach joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:10:06Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2015-05-15T04:10:23Z perpetuum quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:15:12Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:16:25Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:16:54Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:21:16Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:21:22Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:21:24Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2015-05-15T04:25:17Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:25:17Z pranavrc quit (Changing host)
2015-05-15T04:25:17Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:29:45Z gingerale joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:32:58Z tianyu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:34:51Z kristof quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T04:35:13Z kristof joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:37:15Z sdothum- quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in)
2015-05-15T04:38:09Z clop2 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:38:22Z zacts quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2015-05-15T04:38:55Z Jaskologist joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:40:02Z kovrik quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.4.91.1))
2015-05-15T04:40:13Z nydel: howdy beach
2015-05-15T04:40:19Z zacts joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:41:01Z futpib joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:43:10Z thinkpad quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:45:09Z protist joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:46:55Z protist: can someone point me in the direction of some good information or separate component compilation in Common Lisp?
2015-05-15T04:47:12Z Zhivago: See compile-file in the CLHS?
2015-05-15T04:47:20Z Zhivago: There's a related chapter.
2015-05-15T04:47:26Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2015-05-15T04:49:26Z beach: protist: What aspect of it would you like to know about?
2015-05-15T04:49:37Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T04:49:40Z kami joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:50:03Z jlongster joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:50:16Z protist: was discussing Common Lisp with a Java guy...and we were talking about differences...he made the claim that Java was better for interprise...and one of his arguments was separate compilation
2015-05-15T04:50:20Z protist: beach: ^
2015-05-15T04:50:27Z kami: Good morning.
2015-05-15T04:50:35Z beach: Hello kami.
2015-05-15T04:50:39Z Zhivago: Well, CL does support separate compilation.
2015-05-15T04:50:48Z kristof: protist: Lisp might have had that before Java, too.
2015-05-15T04:50:49Z protist: beach: and I said I have never tried to compile part separately in CL, so I can't say whether there is a standard way of doing it
2015-05-15T04:50:54Z Balooga joined #lisp
2015-05-15T04:51:01Z Zhivago: But linkage is side-effectful, which does complicate things.
2015-05-15T04:51:03Z protist: kristof: wouldn't be surprised...but I need to do some reading :)
2015-05-15T04:51:11Z beach: protist: It is usually hopeless to discuss with ignorant people who don't want to know the truth about things.
2015-05-15T04:51:31Z Zhivago: The main advantage of the Java model is that packages are declarative.
2015-05-15T04:51:54Z A205B064 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:51:57Z protist: beach: true...but sometimes you learn things...I learned I don't know about separate compilation in CL, and so it may be a valid point
2015-05-15T04:52:16Z protist: beach: there may very well be less to compile in the first place if you use CL ;)
2015-05-15T04:52:18Z Zhivago: So there is no linkage ordering dependency.
2015-05-15T04:53:17Z beach: protist: Modern Common Lisp systems almost always compile.  Whether you use COMPILE-FILE or load the source.
2015-05-15T04:53:54Z Zhivago: That's a different issue to separate compilation.
2015-05-15T04:54:03Z protist: beach: so I can compile a file then load the compiled file?
2015-05-15T04:54:18Z beach: Zhivago: Yes, but protist said "there may very well be less to compile in the first place"
2015-05-15T04:54:25Z beach: protist: Yes.
2015-05-15T04:54:33Z Balooga quit (Client Quit)
2015-05-15T04:54:40Z beach: protist: That's what ASDF does, and ASDF is what is typically used these days.
2015-05-15T04:54:42Z protist: beach: by less I meant as in your code may be more succint and expressive
2015-05-15T04:54:43Z Zhivago: protist: You may, although there may be side-effects from compilation -- so the interesting order would be 'compile a file' and then 'load the compiled file in a separate process'.
2015-05-15T04:54:52Z beach: protist: Oh, OK.  I see.
2015-05-15T04:55:06Z protist: succinct* (I think that is how to spell that)
2015-05-15T04:55:45Z protist: Zhivago: hmmm
2015-05-15T04:57:13Z beach: protist: So you can tell your Java guy that Common Lisp does have separate compilation.  And you may want to ask him why he believed that it didn't.
2015-05-15T04:57:44Z kristof: I don't think it particularly matters why people believe the things they do anymore.
2015-05-15T04:57:45Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-05-15T04:57:49Z protist: beach: ah ok, I need to learn the details of its use
2015-05-15T04:58:05Z protist: beach: people assume a lot of things about CL
2015-05-15T04:58:08Z beach: protist: (compile-file "file.lisp")
2015-05-15T04:58:18Z protist: beach: read something saying it was no good for enterprise because "It has one data structure, the list" LOL
2015-05-15T04:58:21Z beach: kristof: You have a point.
2015-05-15T04:58:49Z beach: kristof: But it is sometimes amusing to hear what they say.
2015-05-15T04:58:57Z kristof: That is also true.
2015-05-15T04:59:00Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T04:59:34Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:00:01Z beach: protist: It would also be somewhat amusing to hear what the Java guy says if you argue that Java is no good for enterprise because it has only single dispatch.
2015-05-15T05:00:12Z protist: It was a point I had never heard brought up...the others I had heard and had a good answer for
2015-05-15T05:01:26Z protist: beach: I'm pretty ignorant about OOP, but can't you do the same things with interfaces as multiple dispatch? You just have to be explicite
2015-05-15T05:01:55Z beach: No, that would be multiple inheritance, not multiple dispatch.
2015-05-15T05:01:57Z kristof: There's no code reuse in interfaces.
2015-05-15T05:02:20Z kristof: But beach is right anyway.
2015-05-15T05:02:36Z badkins quit
2015-05-15T05:03:29Z kristof quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-05-15T05:03:56Z nikki93_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:04:27Z protist: beach: thank you :)
2015-05-15T05:04:33Z Zhivago: Single dispatch is fine, because you can always implement N + 1 dispatch with it.
2015-05-15T05:04:48Z metaphysician joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:05:25Z Zhivago: You just end up writing foo.bar(a).boo(b).bing(c)
2015-05-15T05:05:57Z Zhivago: Except that's annoying, so you end up with a factory instead.
2015-05-15T05:06:06Z Zhivago: Still, they have acceptable workarounds.
2015-05-15T05:06:36Z beach: protist: Here is an amusing exercise in Java.  Suppose some class C has two methods M1 and M2 that are both named METHOD.  Suppose that M1 takes an argument of type C1 and M2 takes an argument of type C2 and that C2 is a subclass of C1.  Now suppose you have a variable V of type C1, but you initialize it with an instance of C2.  Now you call x.METHOD(V).  Which method will be called?  M1 or M2?
2015-05-15T05:08:27Z protist: beach: M1?
2015-05-15T05:08:40Z beach: Yes.
2015-05-15T05:08:46Z joga_ is now known as joga
2015-05-15T05:08:56Z joga quit (Changing host)
2015-05-15T05:08:56Z joga joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:08:59Z protist: beach: very bad behavior, but kind of expected
2015-05-15T05:08:59Z beach: It is counter-intuitive and many Java programmers believe M2.
2015-05-15T05:09:11Z protist: beach: but I had to think like a Java compiler to get that answer lol
2015-05-15T05:09:29Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T05:09:44Z protist: beach: figured the type propogation graph would say use M1
2015-05-15T05:09:55Z beach: Yes, you are right.
2015-05-15T05:10:54Z protist: I like languages where variables don't have types
2015-05-15T05:11:29Z protist: I wonder how our operating systems would perform if they were written in FORTH
2015-05-15T05:11:50Z beach: Why do you wonder that?
2015-05-15T05:12:12Z protist: you get 2-4× penalty for being threaded...but people could test new ideas and rapidly prototype easier I think
2015-05-15T05:12:22Z beach: Modern Forth is compiled.
2015-05-15T05:12:53Z pjb: Can you compile a function separately in Java?
2015-05-15T05:13:00Z pjb: Can you compile a variable separately in Java?
2015-05-15T05:13:01Z protist: you also get a weird boost on indirect threaded FORTH because compiled size is small...so direct vs indirect can go both ways I think
2015-05-15T05:13:14Z XachX quit (Ping timeout: 183 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:13:20Z protist: beach: do you mean compiled in the sense that C is compiled?....or compiled to threaded code?
2015-05-15T05:13:30Z beach: protist: An operating system written in Common Lisp would be great though.
2015-05-15T05:13:45Z protist: beach: sure some are direct threaded and have some JIT magic
2015-05-15T05:13:52Z beach: protist: I mean compiled in that native code is generated.
2015-05-15T05:14:04Z gz quit (Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T05:14:24Z protist: beach: it would also be beautiful to see FORTH get all the performance attention that C does
2015-05-15T05:14:42Z wooden_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:14:42Z protist: beach: instead the JVM seems like the stack machine of choice, which is sad
2015-05-15T05:14:55Z protist: beach: imagine languages all emitting pretty stack code
2015-05-15T05:15:47Z protist: beach: have you been keeping track of mezzano?
2015-05-15T05:15:56Z beach: Not really, no.
2015-05-15T05:16:05Z protist: beach: I got a vm up when it was first mentioned...very cool project
2015-05-15T05:16:37Z protist: beach: what do you think of mezzano? I'm no OS expert, does it seem like a solid direction?
2015-05-15T05:18:15Z beach: It is hard for me to answer that.
2015-05-15T05:18:38Z Zhivago: I think it's mostly in the wrong direction.
2015-05-15T05:18:53Z beach: It is definitely a cool project.
2015-05-15T05:19:26Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:19:27Z Zhivago: Why? :)
2015-05-15T05:19:44Z pjb: for the existance.
2015-05-15T05:19:50Z beach: Because I think it is "cool" that people do that kind of stuff.
2015-05-15T05:19:52Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2015-05-15T05:20:01Z Zhivago: Why?
2015-05-15T05:20:11Z yaewa joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:20:15Z beach: Zhivago: Never mind.  Not important.
2015-05-15T05:20:22Z Zhivago: This seems pretty much equivalent to just having a single process linux installation running a custom emacs.
2015-05-15T05:20:25Z pjb: so we may say we have n+1 lisp OSes.
2015-05-15T05:20:45Z beach: protist: This is what I would like to see in a Lisp OS: http://metamodular.com/Common-Lisp/lispos.html
2015-05-15T05:20:46Z pjb: Zhivago: but it's written entirely in Common Lisp!
2015-05-15T05:20:51Z Zhivago: Except that you only get to run it in a virtual machine that happens to support the very few drivers you've implemented.
2015-05-15T05:20:58Z pjb: Zhivago: but it's written entirely in Common Lisp!
2015-05-15T05:21:21Z moei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:21:51Z protist: beach: I spend some time thinking about the heirarchichal file system problem recently
2015-05-15T05:21:53Z Zhivago: At which point you might be inclined to think -- hmm, perhaps a linux process is the kind of virtual machine that I actually meant to run in.
2015-05-15T05:22:02Z pjb: Zhivago: but it's written entirely in Common Lisp!
2015-05-15T05:22:11Z pjb: You actually want to run CL code.
2015-05-15T05:22:28Z protist: beach: think it would be cool to make a graphical graph-based file system that uses linking and such to work in a way that is transparent on the heirarchy interface
2015-05-15T05:22:35Z Zhivago: Sure -- and having the program your process runs be written in CL sounds nice.
2015-05-15T05:22:45Z protist: beach: was thinking about that as a future project
2015-05-15T05:22:51Z pjb: Eventually, it would run on bare hardware.
2015-05-15T05:22:55Z Zhivago: But there seems little difference between not having the kernel written in CL and not having the BIOS/CPU written in CL.
2015-05-15T05:24:05Z protist: well under the covers, aren't most boot loaders (or something) still written in FORTH?
2015-05-15T05:24:24Z Harag joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:24:32Z pjb: Zhivago: of course, the question is what is the OS layer architecture?
2015-05-15T05:25:09Z pjb: Would anybody who has read the sources of mezzano be able to make a comparison with a unix kernel?
2015-05-15T05:26:02Z aksatac joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:26:02Z protist: froggey: ping
2015-05-15T05:26:38Z Zhivago: pjb: Sure. You can just compare x86 with a process to do so.
2015-05-15T05:26:50Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:31:38Z Tenobrus joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:32:26Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-05-15T05:36:29Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:37:10Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:37:11Z thinkpad joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:37:12Z jackdaniel: protist: what do you mean by bootloader? syslinux/grub/lilo/u-boot/coreboot/fastboot or something else? /fyi, neither of these is written in forth/
2015-05-15T05:37:46Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:37:50Z protist: jackdaniel: I don't really know...I just know there is some essential part at the BIOS or below that is reportedly written in FORTH
2015-05-15T05:40:54Z H4ns: protist: you don't know, you believe
2015-05-15T05:41:05Z protist: "Forth is currently used in boot loaders such as Open Firmware, space applications,[1] and other embedded systems."
2015-05-15T05:41:06Z jackdaniel: there is Open Firmware, which compiles drivers in forth into bytecode
2015-05-15T05:41:32Z protist: H4ns: true...I had some vague recollection
2015-05-15T05:41:40Z jackdaniel: firmware != bootloader
2015-05-15T05:41:51Z protist: H4ns: thought I would throw it out there...if I'm wrong maybe I could create a cool legend
2015-05-15T05:41:53Z jackdaniel: or maybe (/= firmware bootloader)
2015-05-15T05:42:28Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:43:19Z gz quit (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:46:00Z protist: jackdaniel: firmware bootloader = 0=
2015-05-15T05:46:02Z protist: jackdaniel: :p
2015-05-15T05:46:26Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:46:49Z russell-- joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:47:01Z protist: https://github.com/GordianNaught/FORF
2015-05-15T05:47:09Z dmiles_akf joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:47:28Z protist: forth interpreter I wrote in 32bit AT&T x86 asm a while ago ^
2015-05-15T05:47:29Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:47:45Z protist: non-standard...would write it a little differently if I did it over again
2015-05-15T05:48:55Z russell--: hey, what is (format nil "~,,' ,4B" #xFACE) supposed to emit?  CLtL2 says one thing, CLISP and sbcl say another.
2015-05-15T05:50:40Z thinkpad quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-05-15T05:53:25Z jackdaniel: sbcl, ccl, ecl and clisp print the same
2015-05-15T05:53:42Z jackdaniel: "1111101011001110"
2015-05-15T05:55:33Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T05:55:35Z russell--: cltl2 says it should have a space commachar
2015-05-15T05:56:52Z jackdaniel: yes, seems all got it wrong apparently
2015-05-15T05:57:06Z russell--: e.g. "1111 1010 1100 1110"
2015-05-15T05:57:13Z thinkpad joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:57:17Z russell--: my world is shattered!
2015-05-15T05:57:39Z Bike: you need : to get a comma
2015-05-15T05:57:48Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2015-05-15T05:58:03Z Bike: otherwise the latter two arguments don't do anything
2015-05-15T05:58:20Z Bike: also, cltl2 is old, so i mean
2015-05-15T05:58:28Z Bike: clhs 22.3.2.2
2015-05-15T05:58:28Z specbot: Tilde D: Decimal: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cbb.htm
2015-05-15T05:58:59Z russell--: "The : modifier causes commas to be printed between groups of digits"
2015-05-15T05:58:59Z jackdaniel: right
2015-05-15T05:59:01Z russell--: bingo
2015-05-15T05:59:04Z russell--: thank you!
2015-05-15T05:59:51Z jackdaniel felt little worried, that nightmare of format comes back so soon after last fight ^_^
2015-05-15T06:00:38Z H4ns: "<jackdaniel> yes, seems all got it wrong apparently" was a strong indicator for me that there was nothing to worry about :)
2015-05-15T06:01:15Z H4ns: i mean, how likely is it that all CL implementation get it wrong?  it is not likely at all
2015-05-15T06:01:58Z pjb: H4ns: it's rather likely, given that implementations are derived from others, and that implementers may readily copy the behavior of other implementations.
2015-05-15T06:02:49Z jackdaniel: H4ns: (format t "~0,0F" 0.0) for instance
2015-05-15T06:03:18Z jackdaniel: only ccl got it right
2015-05-15T06:03:21Z H4ns: jackdaniel: what does the spec say about it?
2015-05-15T06:03:35Z jackdaniel: well, 0 width says: use minimal number of characters you need
2015-05-15T06:03:47Z jackdaniel: 0 digits after "." says, that zero digits
2015-05-15T06:03:52Z jackdaniel: so result should be: 0.
2015-05-15T06:04:06Z jackdaniel: but if you say (format t "~0F" 0.0), it should be .0
2015-05-15T06:05:05Z jackdaniel: it's tricky, that's why clisp  throws an exception, sbcl, ecl and lw print "."
2015-05-15T06:05:20Z jackdaniel: ecl have it right on trunk now
2015-05-15T06:05:40Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:05:46Z beach: jackdaniel: s/throws an exception/signals a condition/
2015-05-15T06:05:53Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:05:58Z jackdaniel: yes, pardon
2015-05-15T06:06:38Z jackdaniel: s/on/in/
2015-05-15T06:08:24Z aap_ is now known as aap
2015-05-15T06:09:50Z jackdaniel builds abcl now
2015-05-15T06:09:52Z enitiz_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:09:57Z xinau joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:12:14Z jackdaniel: pjb: mind sharing your clall script?
2015-05-15T06:12:33Z x1n4u quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:15:00Z kovrik joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:17:13Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:22:37Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:22:37Z cmatei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T06:23:13Z cmatei joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:24:43Z Tenobrus quit
2015-05-15T06:25:41Z dmiles_akf quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:26:01Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:26:21Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:28:08Z metaphysician is now known as Guest29878
2015-05-15T06:28:28Z metaphysician joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:28:56Z Jaskologist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:29:46Z ahungry_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T06:30:38Z Guest29878 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:31:47Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T06:32:21Z mishoo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:32:49Z ahungry joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:32:59Z jackdaniel:  /win 14
2015-05-15T06:34:12Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:34:57Z metaphysician quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-05-15T06:39:53Z schaueho joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:40:07Z stepnem joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:41:22Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:42:15Z Shinmera joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:43:29Z ndrei quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T06:43:41Z Shinmera: Good mourning.
2015-05-15T06:43:46Z jackdaniel: o/
2015-05-15T06:43:48Z beach: Hello Shinmera.
2015-05-15T06:45:23Z beach: I find that more and more often, I split my code into a single definition in each file.  Certainly, this is the case for some SICL code, simply because I need maximum flexibility of what definitions to include during bootstrapping.
2015-05-15T06:46:04Z harish__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:46:29Z beach: Also, I believe there is no longer a problem with optimizations on the level of a compilation unit; as I recall ASDF can bundle several source files into one compilation unit.
2015-05-15T06:47:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:47:56Z ndrei joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:49:42Z beach: In fact, I can do that directly in SICL as well, by forming a single PROGN AST from a bunch of ASTs for individual definitions.  All optimizations are done on the HIR/MIR level anyway.
2015-05-15T06:50:37Z beach: Anyway, time to get to work!
2015-05-15T06:50:40Z beach left #lisp
2015-05-15T06:54:31Z kushal joined #lisp
2015-05-15T06:55:56Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:57:14Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T06:59:00Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:01:48Z harish__ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:01:50Z kovrik quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T07:02:27Z kovrik joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:06:13Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T07:08:53Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T07:14:25Z harish__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T07:15:10Z jackdaniel: hm, any reason why cells have their own utils-kt package in source tree? (diffrent in a few regards then utils-kt)
2015-05-15T07:18:28Z salv0 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:21:01Z kovrik quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T07:21:31Z kovrik joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:24:02Z dmiles_akf joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:25:18Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T07:25:25Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T07:25:34Z cadadar_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:27:43Z harish__ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:27:44Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-05-15T07:30:22Z xinau quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T07:31:15Z jackdaniel: nvm, wrong fork
2015-05-15T07:32:43Z Oladon joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:33:59Z kami joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:34:13Z pjb joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:34:36Z pjb is now known as Guest97150
2015-05-15T07:36:32Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-05-15T07:36:37Z kami` joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:37:39Z kami quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T07:38:47Z Guest97150 is now known as pjb`
2015-05-15T07:38:58Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2015-05-15T07:41:06Z chu joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:43:02Z jewel_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2015-05-15T07:43:51Z ggole joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:43:59Z kovrik quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T07:47:58Z kovrik joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:48:54Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:49:06Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T07:49:59Z qubitnerd joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:54:30Z cadadar_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T07:55:36Z cadadar_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T07:57:34Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime)
2015-05-15T08:00:57Z harish__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-05-15T08:05:03Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T08:06:33Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T08:06:35Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T08:07:05Z araujo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T08:09:29Z pranavrc quit
2015-05-15T08:10:36Z smokeink joined #lisp
2015-05-15T08:18:54Z average joined #lisp
2015-05-15T08:19:04Z average: any women here that can confirm this https://vwo.com/blog/ab-test-proves-women-find-bearded-men-attractive/ ?
2015-05-15T08:19:24Z Zhivago: Such a confirmation would be anecdotal at best.
2015-05-15T08:19:27Z H4ns: average: please go somewhere else for this discussion
2015-05-15T08:19:31Z average: the stats apparently back up the conclusion ..
2015-05-15T08:19:43Z average: H4ns: i'm here as you can see..
2015-05-15T08:19:46Z Zhivago: Then don't ask stupid questions.
2015-05-15T08:19:49Z jewel joined #lisp
2015-05-15T08:20:43Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2015-05-15T08:20:46Z average: Zhivago: why is my question stupid again ?
2015-05-15T08:21:13Z dim: it is off topic
2015-05-15T08:21:19Z average: ok
2015-05-15T08:21:28Z Zhivago: Because you accept the provided statistics, yet ask for a single anecdote.
2015-05-15T08:21:37Z dim: it can be seen stupid to ask off topic questions when you know the topic... there's already that
2015-05-15T08:21:50Z dim: Zhivago: now you're being off-topic too
2015-05-15T08:22:00Z aksatac quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-05-15T08:22:14Z dim: I wonder if discussing about
2015-05-15T08:22:20Z dim: damn RET key sorry
2015-05-15T08:22:20Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T08:22:23Z ziocroc joined #lisp
2015-05-15T08:22:33Z dim: I wonder if discussing about a topic being off-topic should be off-topic? ;-)
2015-05-15T08:22:44Z Zhivago: average: You should ask about lisping men, instead.
2015-05-15T08:23:45Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2015-05-15T08:24:06Z jackdaniel: that's what I call (1+) nice commit "+4 lines, -5 lines"
2015-05-15T08:25:04Z average: Zhivago: you see, it's catchy topic
2015-05-15T08:25:30Z average: anyway
2015-05-15T08:27:46Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T08:29:16Z pjb: jackdaniel: It's in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=summary&p=public/bin
2015-05-15T08:29:47Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T08:32:28Z jackdaniel: pjb: thanks
2015-05-15T08:32:55Z jackdaniel improved utils-kt and cells to support ecl/abcl/ccl \o/ I hope it will be pulled
2015-05-15T08:37:08Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T08:38:16Z dim: Bike: about yesterday bigint/float issue, indeed the foreign driver lib is to blame, using the wrong protocol by default: https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/issues/232 has the details --- nothing to fix on pgloader nor CL side of things ;-)
2015-05-15T08:38:22Z booley joined #lisp
2015-05-15T08:40:55Z redeemed joined #lisp
2015-05-15T08:43:14Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T08:43:58Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2015-05-15T08:49:53Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2015-05-15T08:54:48Z ssake joined #lisp
2015-05-15T08:57:25Z djinni` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T08:58:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:03:09Z gautham_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:04:29Z leafybasil quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T09:05:48Z gautham_ quit (Client Quit)
2015-05-15T09:09:36Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T09:10:54Z djinni` joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:13:19Z kami` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T09:13:30Z kami` joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:14:46Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:16:38Z ziocroc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T09:19:00Z loz joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:19:50Z loz: hi, any ideas why is eval so fast in picolisp? vs sbcl for example? http://kazimirmajorinc.com/Documents/The-speed-of-eval-in-some-Lisp-implementations/index.html
2015-05-15T09:21:19Z ronh-: loz IIRC believe SBCL doesn't include an interpreter, everything has to be compiled
2015-05-15T09:21:29Z ronh-: s/IIRC/I
2015-05-15T09:22:35Z jackdaniel: reading old usenet archives I'm happy I've missed all these flamewars about CL killing Lisp :-)
2015-05-15T09:22:35Z loz: ronh-: so is this eval compilation time?
2015-05-15T09:23:16Z Shinmera: loz: http://www.sbcl.org/1.0/manual/Interpreter.html
2015-05-15T09:24:04Z loz: Shinmera: thank you!
2015-05-15T09:27:31Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2015-05-15T09:27:34Z k-stz joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:30:51Z ehu joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:34:29Z kephra: loz, my guess why clisp might be slower in this example, is that picolisp has no real reader, with reader macros - so a lot of time of those small benchmarks might go into parsing the eval
2015-05-15T09:36:18Z White_Flame: another issue is that sbcl's setf needs to check for dynamic bindings, whereas picolisp likely doesn't
2015-05-15T09:37:06Z xinau joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:37:10Z loz: i see, this benchmark is not very representative
2015-05-15T09:37:28Z Shinmera: It doesn't say much at all imo.
2015-05-15T09:37:35Z White_Flame: but yeah, given that the time1 & time2 are >10x faster in sbcl than picolisp, it's dwarfed by the compiler
2015-05-15T09:38:21Z solyd_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:38:35Z przl joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:40:09Z White_Flame: loz:  since all the eval'd bodies are tiny, it really ends up measuring the overhead of eval, not the speed of the eval'd body
2015-05-15T09:40:15Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:40:29Z White_Flame: if the eval was outside the do-while loop, then the difference between interpreters and compilers would massively stick out
2015-05-15T09:41:16Z psy_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:43:01Z harish__ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:47:45Z Shinmera: Doing a naive test, the difference between compile/interpret on SBCL is quite big https://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TlRrNA==
2015-05-15T09:48:12Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2015-05-15T09:48:44Z ndrei joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:48:46Z leafybasil joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:48:53Z araujo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:48:53Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2015-05-15T09:48:53Z araujo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:48:57Z sg|polyneikes joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:49:10Z Shinmera: Depending on what kind of snippet you're eval-ing, the scale will tip again though.
2015-05-15T09:49:34Z leafybasil quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T09:49:45Z solyd_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-05-15T09:49:51Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T09:50:00Z leafybasil joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:50:02Z sg|polyneikes quit (Client Quit)
2015-05-15T09:50:46Z zacharias joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:51:43Z Shinmera: The article seems quite skewed in its stats, and practically worthless in its test case to begin with, so I'm not sure what it's even trying to show.
2015-05-15T09:51:51Z Intensity joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:53:03Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T09:53:19Z gniourf: How can I easily concatenate strings from a vector of strings? #("one" "two") --> "onetwo"
2015-05-15T09:53:21Z k-stz joined #lisp
2015-05-15T09:54:43Z Shinmera: gniourf: Does it have to be fast, or concise?
2015-05-15T09:54:51Z White_Flame: (apply #'concatenate 'string (coerce array 'list)) ?
2015-05-15T09:55:29Z gniourf: Shinmera, both if possible :)
2015-05-15T09:55:35Z White_Flame: not sure if alexandria's flatten works against generalized sequences or just lists
2015-05-15T09:55:43Z Shinmera: (with-output-to-string (out) (loop for i across #("abc" "def") do (write-string i out)))
2015-05-15T09:55:59Z Shinmera: ^would probably be the fastest way and sort of concise.
2015-05-15T09:56:24Z H4ns: gniourf: either is a bit disgusting, but ask yourself:  why do you want to concatenate strings in the first place?
2015-05-15T09:56:46Z Shinmera is off to lunch
2015-05-15T09:57:00Z White_Flame: erlang's iolists are a nice model to learn from, keep everything unconcatenated until final rendering
2015-05-15T09:57:47Z gniourf: Shinmera, looks good!
2015-05-15T09:58:19Z gniourf: H4ns, I'm implementing ed in Lisp... and ed has a join command, so I'm just doing that
2015-05-15T09:59:01Z White_Flame: then yeah, with-output-to-string is a good bet
2015-05-15T09:59:34Z gniourf: Shinmera, thanks
2015-05-15T09:59:40Z White_Flame: though it'd be interesting to see how the two benchmark
2015-05-15T09:59:44Z chuchana joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:00:00Z White_Flame: in theory, concatenate could calculate the final string size up front
2015-05-15T10:00:03Z H4ns: White_Flame: apply has the inherent problem that it restricts the length of the list that you can pass.
2015-05-15T10:00:17Z White_Flame: yes
2015-05-15T10:00:47Z gniourf: White_Flame, I was trying to do something with apply #'concatenate... thanks for showing me the way :)
2015-05-15T10:00:56Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-05-15T10:01:23Z kephra: but its interesting, that for this small eval benchmark, stupid implemenations lead
2015-05-15T10:01:44Z White_Flame: kephra: as I said above, it effectively measures the overhead of calling eval
2015-05-15T10:01:50Z Shinmera: It's a stupid test, so
2015-05-15T10:02:12Z White_Flame: stupid implementations need to very little there
2015-05-15T10:02:20Z White_Flame: ...need to do*
2015-05-15T10:02:50Z White_Flame: SBCL has one of the slower compilers, too, in terms of compilation speed
2015-05-15T10:03:07Z White_Flame: (because it's busy doing a better job than the others :-P)
2015-05-15T10:04:36Z White_Flame: gniourf: if optimizing speed is an issue, with-output-to-string also lets you specify the string object to render into.  Add the string lengths of the substrings in the array, pre-allocate the output string, and there'll be only 1 allocation
2015-05-15T10:05:30Z gniourf: White_Flame, ah cool! how can I specify an aref of a vector?
2015-05-15T10:05:47Z kephra: fyi: timing difference between test 1 and test 3 are about 5% in my toy scheme
2015-05-15T10:05:50Z White_Flame: you mean the fill pointer?
2015-05-15T10:05:55Z gniourf: yes
2015-05-15T10:05:57Z gniourf: no
2015-05-15T10:05:57Z kephra: so I"m on the side of stupid implementations
2015-05-15T10:06:15Z gniourf: not the fill pointer, e.g., (aref lines 4)
2015-05-15T10:06:47Z kephra: its funny that I'm faster then clojure on test 3!
2015-05-15T10:06:49Z White_Flame: (aref lines 4) is how you specify the aref of a vector... not sure what you're asking?
2015-05-15T10:07:06Z psy_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2015-05-15T10:07:13Z gniourf: #("one" "two" "three") --> #("onetwo" "three")
2015-05-15T10:07:38Z White_Flame: I wouldn't expect that to be an intermediate state in rendering the concatenation of the strings
2015-05-15T10:08:47Z p_l: I wonder if anyone has a copy of the 386 ZetaLisp
2015-05-15T10:09:11Z tharugrim joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:09:14Z mood: FYI, with-output-to-string seems to be slightly faster than the (apply #'concatenate ...) one: http://files.joram.io/dump/w-o-t-s-v-a-c.png
2015-05-15T10:09:57Z White_Flame: mood: yeah, I would suspect so, nice to see
2015-05-15T10:10:51Z gniourf: defparameter *lines* #("one" "two" "three")) (setf (aref *lines* 0) (with-output-to-string (out) (loop for i across (subseq *lines* 0 2) do (write-string i out))))
2015-05-15T10:11:29Z gniourf: and then I have a delete function to remove the block between the first line joined and the last one
2015-05-15T10:12:37Z White_Flame: so you're destructively concatenating a consecutive span within *lines*
2015-05-15T10:12:46Z gniourf: yes
2015-05-15T10:13:04Z White_Flame: I wouldn't use subseq in the loop, but rather iterate over aref indices
2015-05-15T10:13:11Z White_Flame: less allocation/copying that way
2015-05-15T10:13:25Z gniourf: that sounds good
2015-05-15T10:13:28Z White_Flame: (write-string (aref *lines* i) out)
2015-05-15T10:13:47Z White_Flame: and then yeah, you'd have to fix up the array by scooting everything over
2015-05-15T10:14:37Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T10:14:46Z jackdaniel: I'd be nice example of protist 's functional literal - (with-output-string (out) (map nil #f(write-string out ?1) *lines*) out)
2015-05-15T10:15:14Z jackdaniel: s/out ?1/?1 out/
2015-05-15T10:15:39Z protist: s/?1/%/
2015-05-15T10:15:48Z protist: but yes, it works that way :)
2015-05-15T10:16:00Z gniourf: what is this? oO
2015-05-15T10:16:05Z protist: you can write % or %1 to refer to the first argument
2015-05-15T10:16:14Z jackdaniel: gniourf: syntactic sugar for lambda
2015-05-15T10:16:17Z protist: gniourf: https://github.com/GordianNaught/Function-Literal
2015-05-15T10:16:26Z White_Flame: not starting from %0?  heresy!
2015-05-15T10:16:31Z jackdaniel: same as (lambda (x) (write-string x out))
2015-05-15T10:16:40Z protist: still looking into whether mine is novel enough (better or more campatible) than alternative
2015-05-15T10:16:47Z jackdaniel: it would be great, if %0 would be a list of all arguments :p
2015-05-15T10:16:49Z gniourf: looks interesting
2015-05-15T10:17:01Z protist: White_Flame: wanted to follow the way Clojure does it, because I stole the % from there
2015-05-15T10:17:09Z jackdaniel: or "%" being that list, keeping "%1" as first argument
2015-05-15T10:17:27Z White_Flame: protist: so if there's multiple expressions, progn is required?
2015-05-15T10:17:37Z protist: White_Flame: Clojure uses # instead of #f ....but I didn't go with # in Common Lisp because of vector literals
2015-05-15T10:17:45Z jackdaniel: protist: I'd still put it in cl21
2015-05-15T10:17:47Z protist: White_Flame: yep
2015-05-15T10:18:48Z mood: rutils also has syntax like that: #`(do-something % %%). It only supports up to 2 arguments though
2015-05-15T10:18:49Z protist: jackdaniel: discussion about novelty is here https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues/924#issuecomment-102032656
2015-05-15T10:18:59Z protist: jackdaniel: I still need to try the arnesi variant
2015-05-15T10:19:25Z protist: jackdaniel: for me, if it doesn't nest, then it is incorrect
2015-05-15T10:20:10Z protist: mood: arbitrary number supported with Function-Literal...althought note that normal maximum arglist sizes apply
2015-05-15T10:20:20Z protist: although*
2015-05-15T10:20:38Z jackdaniel: hm, I wonder anyways, it's a good example of usage, being it #L or #F
2015-05-15T10:20:53Z jackdaniel: s/hm, I wonder //
2015-05-15T10:20:54Z jackdaniel: :D
2015-05-15T10:21:39Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:22:58Z antoszka: Why not stick to Arnesi I pointed out? :)
2015-05-15T10:23:17Z antoszka: Also, curious why hu.dwim.syntax-sugar fails in clisp.
2015-05-15T10:24:10Z baotiao joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:24:40Z antoszka: I also noticed that sharp-l-syntax is used internally in Iterate.
2015-05-15T10:24:58Z bebilonu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T10:25:01Z antoszka: Not that it matters much, but shows it's already kinda spread around projects.
2015-05-15T10:26:23Z protist: jackdaniel: White_Flame: mood: tested...they don't nest in arnesi
2015-05-15T10:26:30Z baotiao quit (Client Quit)
2015-05-15T10:27:45Z White_Flame: I agree that nesting is mandatory for such sugar
2015-05-15T10:27:45Z smokeink quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T10:28:09Z White_Flame: though it also makes one consider escaping out to an outer function's arguments
2015-05-15T10:28:10Z antoszka: protist: How would you deal with the nesting in your variant?
2015-05-15T10:28:13Z fragamus_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T10:28:25Z antoszka: (curious about the syntax)
2015-05-15T10:28:43Z protist: antoszka: example on page https://github.com/GordianNaught/Function-Literal
2015-05-15T10:28:48Z antoszka: thx
2015-05-15T10:28:49Z White_Flame: %-1, %--1, %---1 to access the first param of outer nested functions?
2015-05-15T10:29:18Z metaphysician joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:29:34Z protist: I do need to make this cleaner before distributing...if anyone wants to help me to the cleaner readtable bits there :)
2015-05-15T10:29:46Z protist: otherwise I'll get around to that sometime
2015-05-15T10:30:10Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:30:21Z protist: White_Flame: no, they refer to the current positions in the innermost lambda
2015-05-15T10:30:34Z antoszka: Hm.
2015-05-15T10:30:42Z White_Flame: I know, I'm just throwing out an idea for accessing outer lambdas
2015-05-15T10:30:48Z protist: White_Flame: ah, I see
2015-05-15T10:30:54Z protist: White_Flame: that requires code walking I think
2015-05-15T10:31:05Z protist: White_Flame: I used to code walk, if you check the history on the repo
2015-05-15T10:31:05Z antoszka: I think (constantly 10) reads better and is more idiomatic than #f10.
2015-05-15T10:31:19Z antoszka: Though potentially it's also a nice use-case.
2015-05-15T10:31:20Z Zhivago: Yes, much nicer.
2015-05-15T10:31:20Z White_Flame: anyway, throw it on quicklisp, nobody will care about how clean the source is as long as it works :)
2015-05-15T10:31:36Z Zhivago: (occasionally 10) might be good for variety.
2015-05-15T10:31:41Z antoszka: haha
2015-05-15T10:31:44Z protist: White_Flame: but that required non-standard coding...or did for me...so I only implemented it for SBCL and CLISP....the current version works for all, but has a slight runtime overhead
2015-05-15T10:31:52Z antoszka: (every-now-and-then 42)
2015-05-15T10:32:15Z protist: antoszka: hehe
2015-05-15T10:33:01Z jackdaniel: antoszka: hu.dwim.walker fails on ecl unfortunately
2015-05-15T10:33:35Z antoszka: ouch
2015-05-15T10:33:37Z jackdaniel: some unbound variable sneaks into C and gcc fails, i think it should work with bytecmp tough
2015-05-15T10:33:48Z antoszka: yeah, I think the dwim.hu house is sbcl-centric.
2015-05-15T10:34:09Z antoszka: Are these guys still profesionally active, btw?
2015-05-15T10:34:49Z intinig joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:35:03Z Ukari quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-05-15T10:35:22Z protist: jackdaniel: I tried the hu.dwim.syntax-sugar version of #l and it fails on CLISP, in discussion here https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues/924#issuecomment-102362588
2015-05-15T10:35:35Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T10:35:56Z protist: full name :hu.dwim.syntax-sugar+hu.dwim.walker for that, sorry
2015-05-15T10:36:47Z antoszka: Yeah, I forgot about that as well :)
2015-05-15T10:37:23Z jackdaniel: it's not very portable apparently
2015-05-15T10:38:41Z jackdaniel: #f works tough flawlessly
2015-05-15T10:38:49Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T10:39:36Z protist: jackdaniel: thank you :)...pjb to thank on the newest version of #f
2015-05-15T10:39:56Z protist: jackdaniel: I was doing implementation specific things, and asked him if there was a better way
2015-05-15T10:40:57Z jackdaniel: dwim fails on bytecode on different place, apparently they try to get car from closure (?)
2015-05-15T10:41:26Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:41:36Z antoszka: CL-USER> (funcall #L(* (funcall #L(+ !1 !2) 1 2) !1) 4)
2015-05-15T10:41:37Z antoszka: 12
2015-05-15T10:42:01Z antoszka: arnesi nests properly when funcalled explicitely
2015-05-15T10:42:16Z antoszka: I'm not really sure what #L(#L should do anyway…
2015-05-15T10:42:23Z hlavaty: PuercoPop: they are different things
2015-05-15T10:42:37Z jackdaniel: antoszka: ((lambda (x y) (list x y)) 1 2) <--
2015-05-15T10:43:02Z protist: antoszka: just like ((lambda (x) (* 2 x)) ...) ... read macros can expand in time to get that behavior, not sure why arnesi isn't
2015-05-15T10:43:05Z antoszka: jackdaniel: But that should be achieved by (#L …)
2015-05-15T10:43:05Z protist: antoszka: interesting now
2015-05-15T10:43:09Z protist: antoszka: note*
2015-05-15T10:43:32Z White_Flame: #L(func param), #L denotes a func itself
2015-05-15T10:44:09Z smokeink joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:44:19Z jackdaniel: (lambda () (lambda () nil)) will return inner lambda when funcalled
2015-05-15T10:44:22Z White_Flame: so #L(#L(...expr..) . params) is perfectly fine
2015-05-15T10:44:32Z jackdaniel: that ↑
2015-05-15T10:45:44Z antoszka: yeah.
2015-05-15T10:45:53Z k-stz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T10:46:03Z jackdaniel: let-over-lambda-over-let-over-lambda ^_^
2015-05-15T10:46:29Z k-stz joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:46:41Z White_Flame: lambda-over-lambda
2015-05-15T10:47:28Z mishoo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:47:29Z jackdaniel: yeah, just joke referring to a book
2015-05-15T10:47:30Z przl joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:47:35Z protist: jackdaniel: one place I really like it is for little currying things
2015-05-15T10:47:39Z protist: jackdaniel: like→ (mapcar #f(split % ",") (split txt NL))
2015-05-15T10:47:52Z rtoym quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-05-15T10:47:54Z rtoym_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:47:56Z protist: jackdaniel: split and NL were already defined
2015-05-15T10:48:05Z rtoym_ is now known as rtoym
2015-05-15T10:48:30Z jackdaniel: well, it fits nicely into maps, where you often need to customize one argument, so you make lambda for that
2015-05-15T10:48:42Z protist: jackdaniel: for above = (remove-if #f(<= (feature-of %) boundary) data)
2015-05-15T10:49:06Z milosn quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-05-15T10:49:31Z protist: jackdaniel: yep! :)
2015-05-15T10:50:02Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T10:50:37Z protist: (sum (mapcar #f(expt (- % mean) 2) vals))
2015-05-15T10:50:43Z protist: ↑ laplace error
2015-05-15T10:51:43Z protist: gotta check for empty list though...and I would use (map 'vector ...) instead to handle vectors too
2015-05-15T10:52:16Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-05-15T10:54:06Z sdothum joined #lisp
2015-05-15T10:54:36Z booley quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:00:20Z jackdaniel: hm, i guess I'll steal sb-cltl2 package from sbcl :-)
2015-05-15T11:00:48Z k-stz joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:01:51Z loz: steal @ hack
2015-05-15T11:05:08Z booley joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:05:10Z kovrik quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:06:20Z pjb: gniourf: are you aware of com.informatimago.common-lisp.ed.ed ?
2015-05-15T11:09:50Z kovrik joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:11:55Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:14:23Z mishoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T11:14:49Z kovrik quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:16:18Z mishoo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:18:34Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:18:38Z Mon_Ouie quit (Changing host)
2015-05-15T11:18:38Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:19:13Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T11:19:44Z gniourf: pjb, no… but your link doesn't work
2015-05-15T11:19:47Z intinig quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:20:21Z gniourf: ok never mind I got it
2015-05-15T11:23:10Z gniourf: pjb, but anyway, my goal is to re-read the history of editors (starting from ed, not teco or qed) and see how it will evolve to ex and vi
2015-05-15T11:23:43Z protist: gniourf: no teco :(
2015-05-15T11:23:48Z jackdaniel: brand new emacs \o/
2015-05-15T11:23:50Z protist: gniourf: teco always sounded interesting to me
2015-05-15T11:24:06Z gniourf: sorry, teco is way too evolved for my limited capacity
2015-05-15T11:24:14Z protist: gniourf: hahaha
2015-05-15T11:24:17Z jackdaniel: you may call it NeoEmacs ^_^
2015-05-15T11:25:17Z gniourf: :)
2015-05-15T11:26:01Z yaewa quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2015-05-15T11:26:04Z kami` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T11:26:16Z kami` joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:26:19Z moei joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:27:33Z kami` is now known as kami
2015-05-15T11:29:01Z clog quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:35:46Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:36:59Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:37:23Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T11:37:51Z araujo_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:38:29Z scymtym joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:38:58Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:39:40Z araujo_ quit (Client Quit)
2015-05-15T11:44:00Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:46:58Z pjb: gniourf: if links don't work, complain with quicklisp, github, gitlab!?
2015-05-15T11:47:00Z baotiao joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:48:12Z przl joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:48:25Z pjb: gniourf: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago) (com.informatimago.common-lisp.ed.ed:ed)
2015-05-15T11:50:04Z pjb: gniourf: cf. The Craft of Text Editing   http://www.finseth.com/craft/
2015-05-15T11:53:25Z Adlai joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:53:45Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:53:49Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:54:50Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T11:55:43Z knobo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:58:11Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T11:58:16Z splittist: gniourf: how about implementing ex/vi in lisp?
2015-05-15T12:06:33Z ziocroc joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:08:44Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T12:08:57Z alexherbo2 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-05-15T12:09:59Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T12:12:33Z capcar joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:12:38Z solyd_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:13:40Z jdm_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:14:16Z schjetne: I tried TECO a while ago, that was fun
2015-05-15T12:14:24Z schjetne: Not about to give up GNU Emacs yet, though
2015-05-15T12:14:26Z metaphysician quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-05-15T12:16:17Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2015-05-15T12:17:18Z schjetne: It would be interesting to see a program to TECO what sed is to ed
2015-05-15T12:18:00Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T12:25:34Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:26:22Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2015-05-15T12:26:52Z ssake quit (Read error: No route to host)
2015-05-15T12:27:08Z ssake joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:27:29Z ndrei joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:28:29Z gniourf: splittist, that will be the second step! ex should be rather straightforward from ed. Then vi… we'll see…
2015-05-15T12:28:50Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:30:30Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T12:30:31Z gniourf: schjetne, were did you find the source for teco? did it compile alright on linux?
2015-05-15T12:31:11Z gniourf: *where
2015-05-15T12:34:57Z darthdeus left #lisp
2015-05-15T12:35:00Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T12:35:19Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:35:49Z EvW joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:36:24Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:37:15Z splittist: gniourf: actually, ex is really tricky. vi is really quite regular (until you shell out to some of the ex strangeness).
2015-05-15T12:37:29Z aksatac joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:37:41Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2015-05-15T12:37:54Z gniourf: splittist, what's tricky about ex?
2015-05-15T12:38:04Z gniourf: (btw, I'm cutting off some of the POSIX nonsense)
2015-05-15T12:40:17Z thodg joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:40:38Z aksatac is now known as cataska
2015-05-15T12:42:52Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:44:58Z d4ryus___ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:46:04Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-05-15T12:46:12Z haom joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:48:04Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T12:48:11Z ziocroc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T12:48:39Z d4ryus___ is now known as d4ryus
2015-05-15T12:48:57Z przl joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:49:54Z idafyaid joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:50:22Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:50:36Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T12:52:46Z jdm_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-05-15T12:52:48Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:53:24Z qbit joined #lisp
2015-05-15T12:53:36Z qbit left #lisp
2015-05-15T12:54:12Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2015-05-15T12:56:07Z yasha9 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T12:59:39Z Adlai joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:00:59Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T13:03:46Z Harag joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:09:04Z yasha9 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:09:12Z araujo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:09:12Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2015-05-15T13:09:12Z araujo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:09:16Z araujo quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-05-15T13:10:11Z araujo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:13:08Z oleo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:13:08Z oleo quit (Changing host)
2015-05-15T13:13:08Z oleo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:16:31Z jack-zhang joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:16:48Z Jaskologist joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:18:51Z LiamH joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:19:47Z cluck joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:21:52Z knobo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-05-15T13:22:18Z solyd_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T13:26:00Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:27:44Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-05-15T13:29:12Z oleo_ quit (Changing host)
2015-05-15T13:29:13Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:29:15Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T13:29:15Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T13:29:16Z oleo_ is now known as oleo
2015-05-15T13:29:19Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T13:29:45Z protist: weird...someone who made their github account two days ago just forked a very small repo I had lol
2015-05-15T13:30:05Z protist: It was kind of an example/"this is interesting" repo
2015-05-15T13:30:19Z protist: and them forking my repo is their only activity
2015-05-15T13:32:05Z jack-zhang quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2015-05-15T13:33:00Z minion joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:33:00Z badkins joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:33:07Z specbot joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:33:12Z jack-zhang joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:33:34Z voidlily quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-05-15T13:34:07Z przl joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:37:01Z solyd joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:38:00Z baotiao quit (Quit: baotiao)
2015-05-15T13:38:41Z kcj joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:40:33Z selat joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:42:48Z jlongster joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:45:34Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:45:36Z norfumpit joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:46:21Z norfumpit left #lisp
2015-05-15T13:49:45Z jlongster quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T13:51:36Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:53:03Z jlongster joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:54:03Z EvW joined #lisp
2015-05-15T13:55:22Z mega1` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T14:02:56Z k-stz: im missing paredit in my c++-mode
2015-05-15T14:07:01Z dim: there's smartparens which should be what you want
2015-05-15T14:09:07Z splittist: "support for pairs of any length (currently up to 10 characters)" (:
2015-05-15T14:12:03Z splittist: dim: smartparens looks really good - thanks for the tip!
2015-05-15T14:13:31Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T14:15:18Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T14:17:10Z solyd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T14:17:13Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-05-15T14:17:17Z levabalkin joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:17:42Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T14:17:53Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:18:14Z k-stz: nice
2015-05-15T14:20:36Z knobo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:21:11Z yrk joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:21:48Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2015-05-15T14:21:48Z yrk joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:22:36Z DruidGreeneyes joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:25:29Z jackdaniel: is there a way to map function into structure fields?
2015-05-15T14:26:17Z oGMo: ?
2015-05-15T14:26:21Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T14:26:22Z Xach: jackdaniel: no
2015-05-15T14:26:39Z jackdaniel: that's a shame
2015-05-15T14:26:40Z jackdaniel: thanks
2015-05-15T14:26:49Z dlowe: you can get that with classes and MOP functions
2015-05-15T14:27:41Z jackdaniel: dlowe: any pointer? I'll check it myself if not, but it should be easier that way
2015-05-15T14:27:51Z jackdaniel: s/should/would/
2015-05-15T14:28:54Z dlowe: you can also specify that the type of the struct is vector or list and then use the appropriate functions on that
2015-05-15T14:29:08Z dlowe: but it will cease to be its own type, so you can't use typep on it
2015-05-15T14:29:25Z _sjs joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:29:34Z dlowe: classes are generally easier to manage. I can't think of a situation where I'd prefer a structure
2015-05-15T14:30:35Z dlowe: read up on the concepts part of the Objects CLHS chapter, then check out the Meta-object protocol
2015-05-15T14:30:47Z jackdaniel: ok, thanks
2015-05-15T14:33:01Z developernotes joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:33:08Z j4cknewt joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:33:08Z oGMo: structs can be faster to access, and also :type
2015-05-15T14:34:18Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:36:30Z failproofshark: hello
2015-05-15T14:38:41Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T14:38:44Z milosn joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:42:26Z dlowe: faster, sure. Faster enough that it matters? Maybe.
2015-05-15T14:42:48Z dlowe: graceful redefinition? priceless.
2015-05-15T14:47:16Z rtra` joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:47:17Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T14:47:59Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:48:00Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T14:48:45Z voidlily joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:49:27Z Jaskologist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T14:50:35Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:50:43Z oGMo: dlowe: yes; i tried changing the structs in fast-io to classes and it slowed down immensely
2015-05-15T14:50:53Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T14:50:53Z rtra` is now known as rtra
2015-05-15T14:51:07Z oGMo: dlowe: though it's odd, because i could have sworn i benchmarked access in another case and classes were _faster_ (which is why i tried switching)
2015-05-15T14:51:52Z dlowe: the optimizations for slot access trigger only with sufficient black magic
2015-05-15T14:51:53Z oGMo: otoh, i didn't change the slot access to SLOT-VALUE, so accessor functions may just be that bad
2015-05-15T14:52:11Z dlowe: I would expect accessor functions to be open-coded
2015-05-15T14:54:42Z Jaskologist joined #lisp
2015-05-15T14:56:49Z voidlily quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T15:02:00Z cataska quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-05-15T15:03:10Z gniourf: is there a function analogous to read-line that will also provide the number of bytes read? or is there a straightforward way to obtain the number of bytes read?
2015-05-15T15:04:30Z jackdaniel: isn't it a second value?
2015-05-15T15:04:41Z Xach: jackdaniel: no
2015-05-15T15:04:57Z Xach: gniourf: i don't think there is a standard way to do that. one option is to compare the result of FILE-POSITION before and after.
2015-05-15T15:05:00Z jackdaniel: repl agrees (:
2015-05-15T15:05:15Z Xach: the second value is whether or not READ-LINE saw a newline at the end.
2015-05-15T15:05:28Z dlowe: You can also use READ-BYTE and use your own loop
2015-05-15T15:05:38Z Xach: read-line is for characters, read-byte is for integers.
2015-05-15T15:06:22Z gniourf: Xach, oh that's a great idea!
2015-05-15T15:06:27Z jackdaniel: read-char then
2015-05-15T15:06:34Z oGMo: characters aren't bytes
2015-05-15T15:06:50Z oGMo: (so you'd still need file-position)
2015-05-15T15:07:09Z Xach: gniourf: out of curiosity, what will do with the info when you get it?
2015-05-15T15:07:10Z jackdaniel: well, read-char should read character, not byte
2015-05-15T15:07:14Z gniourf: dlowe, I discarded this because I was concerned with speed (without actually ever benchmarking it... but I have a feeling it would be slow)
2015-05-15T15:07:31Z dlowe: gniourf: it's likely to be buffered.
2015-05-15T15:07:44Z oGMo: jackdaniel: yes, and is therefore still useless for counting bytes
2015-05-15T15:07:54Z gniourf: Xach, I'm trying to implement ed in Lisp, and when a file is read, the total number of bytes should be displayed
2015-05-15T15:08:01Z gniourf: bytes, not characters
2015-05-15T15:08:08Z jackdaniel: :¢
2015-05-15T15:08:13Z oGMo: gniourf: you're reading the whole file?
2015-05-15T15:08:19Z gniourf: oGMo, yes
2015-05-15T15:08:23Z jdz: ed predates utf-8?
2015-05-15T15:08:25Z oGMo: gniourf: so just look at the file size?
2015-05-15T15:08:29Z gniourf: jdz, indeed
2015-05-15T15:08:50Z gniourf: oGMo, that could do too :)
2015-05-15T15:08:53Z jdz: so what use is the number of bytes, anyway?
2015-05-15T15:09:04Z jdz: s/bytes/octets?
2015-05-15T15:09:11Z oGMo: i suppose it might change while or after you're reading, but otoh you could just grab FILE-POSITION at the _end_
2015-05-15T15:09:12Z gniourf: jdz, idk, just trying to be POSIX-compliant when I can
2015-05-15T15:09:44Z jdz: gniourf: are you sure you want to use character streams, then?
2015-05-15T15:10:02Z jdz: i mean, if POSIX ed uses bytes?
2015-05-15T15:10:50Z gniourf: jdz, well, my ed will be better than POSIX in this respect, yet it will still output the number of bytes read
2015-05-15T15:11:22Z jdz: gniourf: so you choose to be POSIX-compliant only when it suits your agenda?
2015-05-15T15:11:31Z gniourf: indeed
2015-05-15T15:11:38Z gniourf: POSIX sucks in many ways
2015-05-15T15:12:12Z oGMo: plus you could always change the input encoding and be trivially compliant i'm sure
2015-05-15T15:12:29Z gniourf: LC_ALL=C would do that
2015-05-15T15:13:23Z gniourf: yet I get an error with non-ascii characters: SYSTEM::STRING-READER: Invalid byte #xE2 in CHARSET:ASCII conversion
2015-05-15T15:15:16Z solyd_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:16:05Z oGMo: i don't think LC_ALL affects stream-external-format or whatever
2015-05-15T15:16:08Z oGMo: but i don't know
2015-05-15T15:16:22Z gniourf: seems to do with sbcl and clisp
2015-05-15T15:16:26Z gniourf: ecl doesn't seem to care
2015-05-15T15:16:43Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T15:16:51Z dlowe: my advice is to use READ-SEQUENCE to read the whole file into memory at once
2015-05-15T15:16:58Z EvW joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:16:59Z dlowe: and then find your line breaks afterwards.
2015-05-15T15:17:04Z gniourf: dlowe, seriously?
2015-05-15T15:17:10Z jackdaniel: test it with /dev/urandom
2015-05-15T15:17:13Z jackdaniel: should be fun
2015-05-15T15:17:17Z dlowe: test ed with /dev/urandom
2015-05-15T15:17:24Z gniourf: :D
2015-05-15T15:17:34Z dlowe: I bet it will be an exact duplicate of the fun
2015-05-15T15:18:09Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-05-15T15:19:06Z gniourf: anyways, the file-position thing is exactly what I wanted! \o/
2015-05-15T15:21:31Z dlowe: actually, file-length returns 0 on /dev/urandom
2015-05-15T15:21:36Z dlowe: so it's kind of a non-event
2015-05-15T15:22:00Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T15:23:23Z Denommus joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:24:05Z protist: if anyone is interested in slurping in a file really fast I have this http://pastebin.com/kHqqbAuC
2015-05-15T15:24:22Z protist: adapted it from somewhere...comment of source I adapted from in the comment
2015-05-15T15:24:24Z Jesin joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:24:44Z zacharias joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:25:08Z protist: gniourf: ^ not sure you want this now, though
2015-05-15T15:25:35Z mj-0 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:25:39Z solyd_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T15:26:04Z dlowe: alexandria also has read-file-into-string and read-file-into-byte-vector
2015-05-15T15:26:19Z gniourf: protist, funny, a couple of days ago I saw that post on ymeme :)
2015-05-15T15:26:32Z gniourf: protist, is it your website?
2015-05-15T15:26:40Z protist: gniourf: nope :p
2015-05-15T15:26:44Z gniourf: ok
2015-05-15T15:26:54Z protist: gniourf: just don't like not commenting sources...feels dishonest :p
2015-05-15T15:27:00Z gniourf: ;)
2015-05-15T15:27:06Z protist: gniourf: at least if I blatantly plagiarize
2015-05-15T15:27:07Z protist: gniourf: ;)
2015-05-15T15:27:23Z badkins quit
2015-05-15T15:28:22Z rhllor joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:28:56Z dlowe: I'm pretty sure that function has been independently invented about a thousand times
2015-05-15T15:31:31Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:36:01Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:36:02Z redeemed quit (Quit: q)
2015-05-15T15:38:42Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T15:39:53Z chuchana quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T15:48:54Z paddymahoney joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:52:16Z tharu joined #lisp
2015-05-15T15:53:12Z jack-zhang quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T15:53:55Z haom: 7part
2015-05-15T15:54:01Z haom left #lisp
2015-05-15T15:54:35Z tharugrim quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T15:56:53Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T16:07:21Z cadadar_ quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-05-15T16:08:04Z kvsari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T16:08:51Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T16:10:03Z kvsari joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:10:23Z afleck joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:11:48Z Jaskologist quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T16:14:49Z afleck quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-05-15T16:17:35Z solyd joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:19:03Z EvW joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:19:17Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T16:20:17Z j4cknewt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T16:20:55Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:21:12Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:21:12Z badkins joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:23:22Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-05-15T16:25:30Z mbuf joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:33:59Z hlavaty quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T16:34:16Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2015-05-15T16:39:54Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T16:40:56Z jlongster joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:43:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T16:43:56Z akersof quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T16:44:27Z levabalkin quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2015-05-15T16:47:03Z akersof joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:48:02Z perpetuum joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:50:52Z capcar quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-05-15T16:53:56Z eli` joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:54:44Z eli` quit (Client Quit)
2015-05-15T16:54:59Z eli joined #lisp
2015-05-15T16:54:59Z eli quit (Changing host)
2015-05-15T16:54:59Z eli joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:00:28Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-05-15T17:02:17Z rhllor quit (Quit: rhllor)
2015-05-15T17:03:22Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T17:03:30Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:05:28Z futpib joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:14:53Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:17:37Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2015-05-15T17:17:40Z mehmetcoskun joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:18:18Z mehmetcoskun: Hi there.
2015-05-15T17:18:23Z mehmetcoskun: I need some help/idea at implementing function parameters.
2015-05-15T17:18:29Z mehmetcoskun: I have managed to parse function parameters and put them into a linked list. Now, I am wondering if I shall pass this list to the block (function bodu) as a parameter then to use in that block eval. Or, is there any other method that you may recommend?
2015-05-15T17:18:36Z mehmetcoskun: I see somewhere that, in a simple interpreter implementation, the programmer using same symbol table by saving it to protect and then using it in function call, then restoring it. I think it is interesting/weird. But maybe works.
2015-05-15T17:18:44Z mehmetcoskun: Any recommendations?
2015-05-15T17:18:47Z akkad: map?
2015-05-15T17:19:00Z akkad: (mapcar #'bodu '(list))
2015-05-15T17:19:23Z mehmetcoskun: akkad: Good idea.
2015-05-15T17:19:49Z mehmetcoskun: akkad: But I am afraid I am being forced to not to use Lisp :(
2015-05-15T17:20:38Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2015-05-15T17:22:49Z jackdaniel: why is that slime indents with-open-file like a function?
2015-05-15T17:23:16Z Shinmera: mehmetcoskun: This is a Common Lisp channel, try ##lisp if you're looking for help on general lisps.
2015-05-15T17:23:43Z Shinmera: jackdaniel: What do you mean?
2015-05-15T17:23:54Z metaphysician joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:24:03Z stodehh joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:24:12Z jackdaniel: it aligns body with parameter lambda
2015-05-15T17:24:23Z jackdaniel: lambda-list°
2015-05-15T17:24:43Z stodehh quit (Client Quit)
2015-05-15T17:24:52Z mehmetcoskun: Shinmera: OK.
2015-05-15T17:24:52Z Shinmera: It doesn't by default.
2015-05-15T17:25:03Z mehmetcoskun left #lisp
2015-05-15T17:26:21Z jackdaniel: http://ix.io/izs <- fresh emacs instance, first sexp is autoindention, second is what i expect (slime-mode is triggered, sbcl as inferior-lisp)
2015-05-15T17:26:57Z Shinmera: M-x common-lisp-mode ?
2015-05-15T17:27:01Z Shinmera: scratch by default is elisp.
2015-05-15T17:27:30Z jackdaniel: yes, i did that,that's why i mentioned, that slime-mode is triggered
2015-05-15T17:27:57Z Shinmera: Works fine for me and always has, so https://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TlRrNQ==
2015-05-15T17:28:29Z jackdaniel: weird, it works after typing manualy in repl and going back to scratch
2015-05-15T17:28:42Z Shinmera: Odd.
2015-05-15T17:28:46Z chu joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:28:51Z Shinmera: Can you reproduce that behaviour?
2015-05-15T17:28:51Z jackdaniel: indeed
2015-05-15T17:29:18Z jackdaniel: yes
2015-05-15T17:29:46Z Shinmera: Might be worth it to file a bug report then.
2015-05-15T17:30:47Z jackdaniel: it always indents right on repl, but other buffers rather not (except this one time I said "weird")
2015-05-15T17:31:09Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T17:32:47Z jackdaniel: to be more precise - it indents correctly file-buffers - it indented right because i saved file to paste it
2015-05-15T17:32:58Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:35:09Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T17:37:42Z przl joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:38:25Z psy_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:39:16Z alexherbo2 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-05-15T17:40:41Z gniourf: my version of sbcl executes sb-ext:run-program with an empty environment, even though the documentation here http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Running-external-programs states that the default is to copy the environment of the current process. So (sb-ext:run-program "ls" nil) fails. :( Why?
2015-05-15T17:40:51Z booley quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T17:41:54Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-05-15T17:42:13Z radioninja joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:42:27Z Shinmera: gniourf: Why not just use UIOP:RUN-PROGRAM
2015-05-15T17:42:38Z Shinmera: portability for free, and it works.
2015-05-15T17:42:43Z gniourf: maybe because I'm not aware of it :D
2015-05-15T17:44:27Z gniourf: but this means I have to rely on asdf?
2015-05-15T17:44:39Z Shinmera: Do you not already?
2015-05-15T17:44:46Z gniourf: nope
2015-05-15T17:44:55Z Shinmera: How do you build your project then?
2015-05-15T17:45:04Z gniourf: what do you mean build my project?
2015-05-15T17:45:20Z Shinmera: How do you get your sources to be loaded into your image
2015-05-15T17:45:30Z Shinmera: How do you install libraries?
2015-05-15T17:45:37Z gniourf: I don't use libraries yet
2015-05-15T17:45:53Z gniourf: and I just --load the files I use
2015-05-15T17:45:54Z afleck joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:46:32Z gniourf: works fine so far :p
2015-05-15T17:46:33Z Shinmera: So by that I'm guessing that you also don't use slime?
2015-05-15T17:46:47Z gniourf: well, I do use slimv
2015-05-15T17:46:54Z Shinmera: Well, learning ASDF is worth it for when your projects become larger than one file.
2015-05-15T17:47:11Z gniourf: hey, my project is already larger than one file!
2015-05-15T17:47:12Z gniourf: :p
2015-05-15T17:47:14Z Shinmera: Or for when you do happen to use libraries or want to distribute your programs.
2015-05-15T17:47:24Z gniourf: I can already distribute it too
2015-05-15T17:47:37Z Shinmera: Not in a way that people will want to use it.
2015-05-15T17:47:49Z gniourf: what do you mean?
2015-05-15T17:48:10Z gniourf: I have a shell wrapper that calls sbcl/whatever with --load
2015-05-15T17:48:14Z Shinmera: Nobody today wants to LOAD source files manually. People use quicklisp and ASDF. A single command at the repl and you're done.
2015-05-15T17:48:14Z gniourf: works fine so far
2015-05-15T17:48:19Z Shinmera: Sounds awful.
2015-05-15T17:48:25Z gniourf: :'(
2015-05-15T17:48:27Z Shinmera: https://reader.tymoon.eu/article/267
2015-05-15T17:48:41Z Shinmera: ASDF is easy to learn.
2015-05-15T17:49:09Z gniourf: I do believe it's easy to learn... but it's one extra thing to learn
2015-05-15T17:49:18Z Shinmera: So?
2015-05-15T17:49:45Z gniourf: there are lots of other things to learn too
2015-05-15T17:49:52Z gniourf: and so far I didn't really need asdf
2015-05-15T17:50:34Z afleck: is there any way to use plain makefiles
2015-05-15T17:50:34Z Shinmera: How can you know that, if you don't even know ASDF?
2015-05-15T17:50:49Z Shinmera: afleck: For what?
2015-05-15T17:50:57Z russell--: learn everything, forget what isn't useful
2015-05-15T17:51:37Z gniourf: don't worry, the time will come when I'll learn and use asdf, and then I'll wonder how I could do without it ;)
2015-05-15T17:51:56Z Shinmera: What better time than the present
2015-05-15T17:51:57Z afleck: building lisp projects
2015-05-15T17:52:25Z Shinmera: afleck: Sure you can, just the same way you can use anything that can run an external program to build lisp projects. That doesn't mean you should, or that it'll be a fun experience.
2015-05-15T17:52:29Z gniourf: because right now I want to finish this ed thing
2015-05-15T17:52:53Z Shinmera thinks that finishing it would include writing a system definition and thus knowing ASDF
2015-05-15T17:53:24Z gniourf: but now you're saying that to run an external program portably I need uiop and for this I need asdf
2015-05-15T17:53:28Z afleck: gniourf: ed thing? i use ed!
2015-05-15T17:53:53Z gniourf: afleck, me too; I'm trying to do a Lisp implementation of it
2015-05-15T17:54:35Z afleck: gniourf: sounds quite neat. you should put in structural regexps ;)
2015-05-15T17:54:48Z Shinmera: In the time we've been having this discussion you could have read that blog entry and made a system definition for your project.
2015-05-15T17:54:51Z gniourf: the regex part is still missing :D
2015-05-15T17:55:00Z gniourf: Shinmera, oh no! I'm a slow learner!
2015-05-15T17:55:48Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T17:56:48Z afleck: gniourf: i would love to have an ed that could match sexps
2015-05-15T17:57:25Z gniourf: afleck, me too
2015-05-15T17:57:29Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-05-15T17:57:30Z gniourf: :p
2015-05-15T17:58:39Z afleck: gniourf: have you read rob pikes paper?
2015-05-15T18:02:18Z jackdaniel: x
2015-05-15T18:02:27Z jackdaniel: exit
2015-05-15T18:02:29Z gniourf: afleck, no?
2015-05-15T18:02:58Z afleck: gniourf: http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/structural_regexps/
2015-05-15T18:03:32Z afleck: gniourf: not about lisp specifically, but I thought of lisp when I read it
2015-05-15T18:03:55Z Jesin joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:04:32Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:04:51Z gniourf: afleck, can I trust a guy who uses a g command to replace all the occurences of a string?
2015-05-15T18:05:01Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T18:05:30Z afleck: gniourf: haha, rob pike knows what is good
2015-05-15T18:05:47Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:06:20Z gniourf: well, a g command isn't very efficient for this: goes once through the buffer to mark the strings and then applies the command
2015-05-15T18:06:26Z gniourf: s on its own can do that
2015-05-15T18:06:42Z gniourf: without going through the buffer twice
2015-05-15T18:08:37Z bizarrefish joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:08:52Z afleck: gniourf: wow, interesting. What is the alternative?
2015-05-15T18:09:16Z gniourf: ,s/string//
2015-05-15T18:09:28Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:10:01Z gniourf: rather, with the g flag: ,s/string//g
2015-05-15T18:10:47Z developernotes quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-05-15T18:11:20Z jackdaniel: gniourf: asdf is shipped with *all* lisp implementations - on version of it or another
2015-05-15T18:11:35Z jackdaniel: and using implementation specific stuff it's just non-portable, what is a sin
2015-05-15T18:11:38Z jackdaniel: ;-)
2015-05-15T18:12:04Z jackdaniel: one version°
2015-05-15T18:12:09Z gniourf: jackdaniel, don't worry, I will eventually use asdf!
2015-05-15T18:12:13Z afleck: gniourf: oh, right. that is what i am familiar with. sam is a bit different than ed
2015-05-15T18:12:28Z gniourf: afleck, he's talking about ed here
2015-05-15T18:13:50Z afleck: gniourf: yeah, he talks about both i think. Anyway, i just thought the main idea was relevant
2015-05-15T18:14:27Z gniourf: afleck, yep
2015-05-15T18:14:57Z afleck: gniourf: is your code online anywhere? I would love to see it
2015-05-15T18:15:42Z gniourf: afleck, not yet... and I'm not too proud of it yet :p
2015-05-15T18:15:49Z gniourf: afleck, and it doesn't use asdf :p
2015-05-15T18:15:56Z gniourf: (yet)
2015-05-15T18:16:57Z afleck: gniourf: well, i hope you make it visible when you do decide to put it online
2015-05-15T18:17:37Z gniourf: afleck, I will put it online when it's almost ok, and will spam all the smart guys here to review it so I can learn from them ;)
2015-05-15T18:20:14Z cadadar joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:25:30Z Bike quit (Read error: No route to host)
2015-05-15T18:27:35Z clog joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:32:44Z Bike joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:34:19Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-05-15T18:43:11Z A205B064 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:48:57Z pyon quit (Quit: I have irrefutable proof that D < 0. It follows trivially from 2D > 3D, which is obviously true.)
2015-05-15T18:53:49Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2015-05-15T18:55:46Z mishoo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:56:16Z MasterPiece joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:56:30Z shka joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:57:23Z developernotes joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:57:27Z zalatovo joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:57:52Z afleck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T18:58:18Z zalatovo: When testing random things in the REPL, is defvar the "normal" way to define variables?
2015-05-15T18:59:11Z shka: zalatovo: could you be more precise, please?
2015-05-15T18:59:21Z shka: anyway, it sounds normal
2015-05-15T18:59:35Z zalatovo: shka: Let's say I'm doing some quick calculation and I want to store the result somewhere temporarily
2015-05-15T18:59:41Z pyon joined #lisp
2015-05-15T18:59:44Z shka: ok
2015-05-15T18:59:53Z shka: well, you can use let as well
2015-05-15T19:00:04Z shka: but hey, whatever works, right?
2015-05-15T19:00:13Z zalatovo: shka: makes sense
2015-05-15T19:00:29Z zalatovo: shka: when I bind something using let in the REPL, can I still use it later on?
2015-05-15T19:00:42Z shka: let works in let form
2015-05-15T19:00:50Z zalatovo: shka: I'm asking because in Haskell for example let behaves differently in the interpreter
2015-05-15T19:01:33Z Qudit314` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T19:01:36Z shka: i don't know haskell, but in lisp usually you have consistent behavior
2015-05-15T19:05:25Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:05:51Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-05-15T19:06:07Z dmiles_akf quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T19:06:40Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:06:57Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:07:11Z bizarrefish: Lo peeps
2015-05-15T19:07:29Z Bike: let is a one-expression thing, i.e. (let ((x 4)) (+ x 7)) => 11, but (let ((x 4))) => NIL and then (+ x 7) => x is unbound
2015-05-15T19:07:33Z Bike: just use defvar
2015-05-15T19:07:36Z paddymahoney quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T19:07:37Z capcar joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:07:59Z zalatovo: alright, thanks for the advice :)
2015-05-15T19:10:25Z zadock joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:12:51Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:13:51Z jackdaniel proud of himself - concatenate lines adding newline - (format nil "~{~A~&~}" list-of-strings)
2015-05-15T19:15:59Z xinau quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T19:16:05Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T19:17:55Z akkad: format is impressive
2015-05-15T19:19:58Z Patzy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T19:20:07Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:22:13Z gniourf_gniourf joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:26:32Z emaczen joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:26:55Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T19:27:15Z shka: format is a decent programing language, but it lacks good console printing
2015-05-15T19:28:05Z loz1 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:28:10Z shka: uh
2015-05-15T19:28:16Z shka: that got old already
2015-05-15T19:28:46Z Shinmera: jackdaniel: That will only insert a newline if one of the strings in your list does not already contain one. (format NIL "~a~&" #\Newline) => #(#\Newline)
2015-05-15T19:28:47Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T19:29:09Z Shinmera: If you want to force a newline, use ~%
2015-05-15T19:29:13Z Cthulhux: is there any reason not to use mod_lisp?
2015-05-15T19:30:28Z jackdaniel: Shinmera: yes, that was my intention
2015-05-15T19:30:42Z jackdaniel: just wanted to have at least one line inbetween
2015-05-15T19:30:54Z White_Flame quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T19:31:34Z devon joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:32:43Z devon: What's the easiest way to gobble up all the #define symbols in a .h file?
2015-05-15T19:32:51Z dlowe: Cthulhux: I've had a much easier time using reverse proxy with a lisp webserver on the backend
2015-05-15T19:33:31Z Cthulhux: dlowe: isn't that the same?
2015-05-15T19:33:32Z dlowe: jackdaniel: that will not repeat newlines, I think
2015-05-15T19:33:46Z jackdaniel: yeah, reverse proxy works on both nginx and apache
2015-05-15T19:34:04Z dlowe: Cthulhux: no. mod_lisp sends a special request to a socket, which then has to be interpreted and dispatched by a library
2015-05-15T19:34:07Z jackdaniel: dlowe: I just wanted to preserve newlines if there were originally (readline..)
2015-05-15T19:34:39Z jackdaniel: read-line °
2015-05-15T19:35:17Z Cthulhux: dlowe: i see. thanks for the insight :)
2015-05-15T19:36:30Z dlowe: I mean, so does http reverse proxy, right?
2015-05-15T19:37:05Z dlowe: but at least you can switch front-ends around and use a normal web browser for debugging
2015-05-15T19:37:10Z devon quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T19:38:10Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:39:35Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T19:40:46Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:40:58Z ggole quit
2015-05-15T19:40:59Z devon joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:41:27Z tharu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T19:46:40Z bipt` is now known as bipt
2015-05-15T19:54:22Z ssake joined #lisp
2015-05-15T19:55:05Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T19:57:00Z munksgaa1d quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T19:57:58Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T19:58:44Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:03:25Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:04:02Z ssake_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:06:37Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2015-05-15T20:06:54Z cadadar joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:07:21Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T20:07:38Z cadadar quit (Client Quit)
2015-05-15T20:11:40Z eudoxia quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T20:14:42Z jlongster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T20:15:25Z JokesOnYou77 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:15:35Z jlongster joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:15:41Z JokesOnYou77: Hi all
2015-05-15T20:25:05Z bgs100 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:26:12Z metaphysician quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-05-15T20:27:26Z katco: is there a library commonly used to serialize clos objects to disk?
2015-05-15T20:28:09Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:28:27Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-05-15T20:30:16Z JokesOnYou77: katco, I believe cl-store will serialize clos objects
2015-05-15T20:30:41Z katco: JokesOnYou77: thank you. is that the common recommendation for doing so?
2015-05-15T20:31:09Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T20:32:15Z JokesOnYou77: I'm not certain if that is the most common but I have used it in the past and found it to be superior to simply printing with ~W to a file (which would be the simplest method).
2015-05-15T20:32:29Z JokesOnYou77: The library author has a nice writeup here: http://www.pentaside.org/paper/persistence-lemmens.txt
2015-05-15T20:32:43Z katco: JokesOnYou77: great, ty :)
2015-05-15T20:32:49Z JokesOnYou77: yw :)
2015-05-15T20:33:01Z aeth: Is there any benefit to structuring data files as quoted s-expressions?
2015-05-15T20:33:51Z JokesOnYou77: aeth, Could you elaborate?
2015-05-15T20:34:46Z Xach: aeth: if your needs are simple, s-expressions work pretty well. no need to quote, though.
2015-05-15T20:34:51Z JokesOnYou77: If you mean, storing data as s-expressions, Lisp is designed to print readably so it doesn't sound like a bad idea to me
2015-05-15T20:35:38Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T20:36:14Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100)
2015-05-15T20:38:01Z Xach: i store lots and lots of data as s-expressions. planet lisp is entirely s-expressions on disk.
2015-05-15T20:38:14Z Xach has 10+ years of articles and metadata in s-expression form
2015-05-15T20:38:22Z JokesOnYou77: Cool!
2015-05-15T20:38:41Z ehu: cliki does that too, I think.
2015-05-15T20:39:31Z aeth: JokesOnYou77: I'm making a game engine so it's for practically every type of data that I wouldn't be using an external tool for (so excluding sound and graphics stuff)
2015-05-15T20:39:36Z perpetuum quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T20:40:10Z xinau joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:40:15Z aeth: I'm not sure I can really elaborate because it would be everything from scripting to logs to configuration, etc.
2015-05-15T20:40:48Z Xach: aeth: s-expressions are so easy to try, they're a good first thing to use. if you run into trouble with some aspect of using them, you can always adapt and move on.
2015-05-15T20:40:49Z JokesOnYou77: Yeah, unless you need to store CLOS objects, i'd say go for it.  Plus, that sounded like a resounding endorsement from Xach.
2015-05-15T20:40:54Z tkd quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T20:41:26Z Xach: joe marshall worked on a persistent CLOS object database called ChangeSafe that used make-instance argument lists for persistence
2015-05-15T20:41:43Z Xach: i don't remember the details, but he wrote it up a few years back, and published the code too
2015-05-15T20:42:11Z dlowe: Heh. I did the same thing.
2015-05-15T20:42:48Z failproofshark: thats pretty comforting hearing about storing s-expressions. i thought it wouldve been considered bad practice or something (for some reason)
2015-05-15T20:43:12Z dim: aeth: here's a full example of serialisation of s-exps I've been using for stats in some project: http://paste.lisp.org/display/148276
2015-05-15T20:43:25Z dim: it's the whole save and read code, like, really. ;-)
2015-05-15T20:43:50Z Xach: http://funcall.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2013-07-26T13:24:00-07:00&max-results=7&start=14&by-date=false has some of it...going forward and backwards has more
2015-05-15T20:44:14Z dim: for serializing CLOS instances my first try would be manardb, is it known to be any good?
2015-05-15T20:44:19Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:44:39Z katco: dim: i just asked the same question and was suggested cl-store
2015-05-15T20:44:44Z dim: thx
2015-05-15T20:44:55Z Xach: cl-store is what I would try first. i would not expect it to be very fast.
2015-05-15T20:44:56Z dim: I currently don't have the need to do that
2015-05-15T20:45:06Z Xach: i have used it in cases where that doesn't matter.
2015-05-15T20:45:07Z dim: but in case, I'll remember to try both then
2015-05-15T20:45:50Z dim: in the recent use cases I had I wanted my users to be able to not care at all that I use CL so I've been using .ini for config :(
2015-05-15T20:45:55Z JokesOnYou77: It's faster than just dumping to files for big dumps I think (200+MB)
2015-05-15T20:46:11Z JokesOnYou77: I suppose it's dependent on the nature of the data though
2015-05-15T20:47:07Z katco: it's telling me i have a system-area-pointer somewhere which it doesn't support
2015-05-15T20:47:15Z ssake_ is now known as sakes
2015-05-15T20:47:26Z JokesOnYou77: O.o
2015-05-15T20:48:46Z badkins quit
2015-05-15T20:49:59Z katco: i'm not sure what i'm looking for really
2015-05-15T20:51:29Z tkd joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:52:15Z JokesOnYou77: katco, I'm not sure what to tell you unfortunately.  You just got it from ql?
2015-05-15T20:52:29Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:52:51Z katco: JokesOnYou77: yes. i don't think it's a bug in the program, i think i'm trying to serialize an object graph with some data it doesn't support
2015-05-15T20:53:15Z JokesOnYou77: :/
2015-05-15T20:53:37Z yrk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T20:53:53Z Xach: What kind of stuff is in the graph?
2015-05-15T20:54:00Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:54:18Z katco: mostly CLOS objs that refer to other CLOS objs
2015-05-15T20:54:31Z katco: at the edges it's vectors and strings
2015-05-15T20:54:53Z leafybas_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T20:55:12Z JokesOnYou77: We actually use cl-store to store a large graph (modified version of wordnet) which is basically a tree of structs and pointers.  But we use structs, not objects
2015-05-15T20:56:26Z Xach: katco: hmm, i wonder where the SAP comes into play.
2015-05-15T20:56:57Z katco: Xach: i'm a newbie lisper, what is considered a SAP? i set some slots to nil, would that do it?
2015-05-15T20:57:29Z JokesOnYou77: This is what I found, but I assume others may have more insight: http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~resnik/ling645_sp2002/cmu_manual/node204.html
2015-05-15T20:57:37Z katco: Xach: my other theory is the fill pointer in vectors, but cl-store says it supports vectors
2015-05-15T20:58:23Z leafybasil quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T20:59:33Z Xach: katco: a system-area-pointer in sbcl is a fairly low-level thing that you wouldn't normally encounter
2015-05-15T20:59:34Z leafybas_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T21:00:06Z katco: =/
2015-05-15T21:00:08Z Xach: katco: my impression is that you might use one if you were implementing something complex like CFFI
2015-05-15T21:00:11Z katco: wonder what i'm doing
2015-05-15T21:00:17Z Xach: Do you use any foreign data?
2015-05-15T21:00:21Z katco: i'm not doing anything with cffi
2015-05-15T21:00:31Z katco: i am using threads and sockets
2015-05-15T21:00:44Z Xach: Do any thread or socket objects get into the graph? or into any slots?
2015-05-15T21:00:57Z katco: mmm.... possibly a socket...
2015-05-15T21:01:09Z katco: let me check something
2015-05-15T21:01:27Z xinau quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-05-15T21:01:41Z x1n4u joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:01:42Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T21:01:52Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:02:08Z Oladon: Sigh. Someone has infested my code with bugs.
2015-05-15T21:02:23Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:03:13Z JokesOnYou77 not it
2015-05-15T21:03:14Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:05:16Z JokesOnYou77: I am proud to announce the creation of a brand new graph metric: Jeb-Centrality.  It's the weighted sum of the connection strength a node has to Jeb Bush in the graph I built using his email dump :)
2015-05-15T21:05:54Z afleck joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:06:40Z akkad: JokesOnYou77: how well does cl-store perform for you?
2015-05-15T21:08:24Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T21:09:40Z JokesOnYou77: The project we used it for has been sunsetted now (only one dev still on it) but when using it I enjoyed it.  I found it to be vastly superior to DUMP-FORMS-TO-FILE which did not scale for larger datasets.  We also contracted the cl-store author to write a custom serializer for the trie structure we built (though most of his code went unused unfortunately).
2015-05-15T21:10:00Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:12:30Z booley joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:14:56Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:17:03Z katco: Xach: well as far as i can tell by examining the object graph, there is no socket sneaking in
2015-05-15T21:17:22Z Xach: katco: does the error message give any hints?
2015-05-15T21:18:21Z katco: Xach: no not really. just "Cannot store objects of type SYSTEM-AREA-POINTER with backend cl-store."
2015-05-15T21:18:39Z selat quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2015-05-15T21:18:58Z Xach: katco: but does the backtrace frame have the object in question?
2015-05-15T21:19:10Z booley quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T21:19:21Z katco: Xach: yeah i stepped through an example graph in SLDB
2015-05-15T21:20:02Z zalatovo quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-05-15T21:20:04Z katco: Xach: i'll just try pairing back attributes until i hit the culprit
2015-05-15T21:20:13Z katco: paring
2015-05-15T21:23:21Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:25:03Z badkins joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:26:42Z emaczen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T21:26:48Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:29:12Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2015-05-15T21:29:32Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-05-15T21:31:17Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T21:33:33Z x1n4u quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-05-15T21:41:28Z leafybasil joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:48:33Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T21:57:52Z hydan joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:58:50Z impulse joined #lisp
2015-05-15T21:59:56Z capcar quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-05-15T22:00:08Z developernotes quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2015-05-15T22:00:37Z hiroakip quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T22:01:14Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-05-15T22:05:37Z Cthulhux: i love how intuitive quicklisp on windows works
2015-05-15T22:05:59Z Cthulhux: i need to swear only four times and everything's almost ready for the first command
2015-05-15T22:06:01Z Cthulhux: :|
2015-05-15T22:06:04Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T22:07:29Z Shinmera didn't have to swear at all
2015-05-15T22:08:36Z Cthulhux: well... my windows had no libssl32
2015-05-15T22:08:41Z Cthulhux: in %PATH%
2015-05-15T22:09:01Z Cthulhux: (first FAIL: thinking ql is loaded automatically.)
2015-05-15T22:09:32Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: Client Quit)
2015-05-15T22:10:22Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-05-15T22:11:08Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T22:15:14Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-05-15T22:16:12Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-05-15T22:16:45Z JokesOnYou77: (first FAIL) ;)
2015-05-15T22:16:58Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2015-05-15T22:18:07Z Cthulhux: indeed.
2015-05-15T22:18:15Z Cthulhux: i'd bet this is even a valid command
2015-05-15T22:18:26Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2015-05-15T22:18:28Z Cthulhux: ..ehm, expression
2015-05-15T22:22:52Z askatasuna quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-05-15T22:28:19Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。)
2015-05-15T22:29:44Z x1n4u joined #lisp
2015-05-15T22:32:13Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T22:33:53Z EvW joined #lisp
2015-05-15T22:41:02Z arpunk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T22:41:45Z kovrik joined #lisp
2015-05-15T22:43:19Z antgreen joined #lisp
2015-05-15T22:43:42Z vhost- quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T22:44:37Z vhost- joined #lisp
2015-05-15T22:45:04Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-05-15T22:45:22Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2015-05-15T22:45:49Z ehu quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-05-15T22:52:52Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2015-05-15T22:55:24Z Xach: What did you need libssl32 for? drakma/hunchentoot?
2015-05-15T22:56:11Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T22:57:08Z Cthulhux: yep
2015-05-15T22:57:16Z Cthulhux: had to grab it from the curl website
2015-05-15T22:57:16Z Cthulhux: :<
2015-05-15T22:57:42Z Xach: there are some options to work around that, like :drakma-no-ssl and :hunchentoot-no-ssl on *features*
2015-05-15T22:58:23Z hydan` joined #lisp
2015-05-15T22:59:06Z Cthulhux: oh, lovely. where are they documented?
2015-05-15T22:59:30Z Xach: on the drakma and hunchentoot documentation pages
2015-05-15T22:59:40Z Cthulhux: i actually need ssl access anyway, but good to know :)
2015-05-15T23:02:13Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-05-15T23:05:35Z MasterPiece quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-05-15T23:06:40Z scymtym joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:08:07Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T23:08:32Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:09:51Z milosn quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-05-15T23:11:17Z milosn joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:11:26Z afleck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T23:12:41Z nikki93__ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:14:15Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-05-15T23:14:49Z nikki93_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2015-05-15T23:17:02Z nikki93__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-05-15T23:17:22Z kovrik quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-05-15T23:17:47Z hydan` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T23:22:21Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:24:03Z gz quit (Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T23:24:23Z XachX quit (Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T23:25:27Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:26:38Z loz1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T23:26:45Z bizarrefish quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-05-15T23:26:53Z bizarrefish joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:29:15Z linux_dream joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:38:46Z vsync quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-05-15T23:39:22Z vsync joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:41:43Z cosmicexplorer joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:43:20Z bb010g joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:44:32Z idafyaid is now known as bebonu
2015-05-15T23:44:52Z bizarrefish quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-05-15T23:46:37Z ehu joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:47:34Z badkins_ joined #lisp
2015-05-15T23:48:44Z ehu quit (Client Quit)
2015-05-15T23:50:28Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2015-05-15T23:57:09Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-05-15T23:57:49Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)