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2015-05-12T01:39:22Z akkad: ok I worked out https://gist.github.com/4ee05de2317183c4f1cb just need to get the last function working on an open file.
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2015-05-12T03:19:48Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2015-05-12T03:25:17Z akkad: morning beach!
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2015-05-12T03:30:15Z akkad: is there a cleaner way to do the wank-crypt-file function? https://gist.github.com/366112ff5c7d13abcd15
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2015-05-12T03:35:36Z pillton: G'day beach.
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2015-05-12T04:33:01Z beach: I am contemplating whether I should try to generate host FASL files from SICL code so as to speed up the bootstrapping process.
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2015-05-12T04:34:19Z beach: Currently, I am loading SICL source code twice into two different first-class global environments, but this is going to get worse.  I am going to have to use at least four different first-class global environments for bootstrapping.
2015-05-12T04:35:01Z jasom: There is a lisp newbie on reddit that I'm trying really hard to not virtually yell at.
2015-05-12T04:35:34Z beach: What did he/she do?
2015-05-12T04:36:15Z jasom: to paraphrase: "Why is the standard 20 years old?" "Can someone recommend an IDE? (Not Emacs, I want an IDE, not a text editor!)"
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2015-05-12T04:37:30Z beach: Did this person say for what OS?
2015-05-12T04:37:37Z jasom: Windows
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2015-05-12T04:37:51Z beach: He/she should just get a commercial implementation then.
2015-05-12T04:37:56Z jasom: Allegro and LispWorks were already mentioned.
2015-05-12T04:38:20Z beach: Anyway, it is pointless for me to argue with you about it here.
2015-05-12T04:38:28Z beach: But I can see your frustration.
2015-05-12T04:38:41Z jasom: Here's a direct quote: "Wondering if CL is really untouched for over 20 years now without any changes? Doubt all decisions back then were good ones + all the own libraries that are not in the ANSI standard included but everybody uses etc."
2015-05-12T04:39:08Z loke: jasom: I saw that one.
2015-05-12T04:39:20Z loke: jasom: I didn't get upset though. I just ignored it.
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2015-05-12T04:42:24Z beach: jasom: I think people with such serious doubts should choose a different language.
2015-05-12T04:44:45Z Fare: beach: why 4?
2015-05-12T04:45:29Z Fare: CL changed a lot in the last 5 years, what with Quicklisp & co.
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2015-05-12T04:46:19Z Fare: already it changed a lot in the early 2000s with danb creating asdf and a bunch of software, xof getting involved, ediware, and many, many hackers writing good stuff.
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2015-05-12T04:48:57Z jasom: Fare: yeah, drewc pointed that out, and the response was "That's all implementations, I'm asking about the standard"
2015-05-12T04:49:41Z jasom: beach: I'm also curious as to why four global environments are needed for bootstrapping
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2015-05-12T04:50:00Z beach: Fare: It is hard to explain in a few sentences.  In the first phase, I create a first-class global environment for compilation.  In the second phase, I create host classes corresponding to the standard mop metaclass objects and their superclasses.  In the third phase, I instantiate those classes to create what I call bridge classes.  In the fourth phase, I create what I call ersatz classes from those bridge classes.
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2015-05-12T04:50:33Z Adlai: these phases all happen in the host?
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2015-05-12T04:50:37Z beach: Yes.
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2015-05-12T04:55:32Z beach: The ersatz classes have the same structure as the target classes except that it is simulated in the host by a header in the form of a host STRUCT and the contents vector (what I call the RACK) in the form of a host simple vector.
2015-05-12T04:58:02Z beach: In the final phase, I traverse the graph of ersatz classes and instances and create an isomorphic graph as a target binary image.
2015-05-12T04:58:12Z jasom: beach: if it's not too painful for you, then I wouldn't worry about it, unless you expect others to be cross-compiling a lot
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2015-05-12T04:58:28Z WHITE_POWER: anyone interested in becoming a member of the hooded order?
2015-05-12T04:58:29Z beach: jasom: Yeah, that's exactly what I am debating.
2015-05-12T04:59:25Z WHITE_POWER: beach: you're debating ain't gonna get you nowhere so you better think fast and make the right choice by joining the hooded order today!
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2015-05-12T05:01:59Z Fare: what's the bridge classes?
2015-05-12T05:02:45Z Fare: Are CONS cells also implemented with RACKs, etc.?
2015-05-12T05:04:40Z beach: No, CONS cells are implemented differently.  Either I'll use host CONS cells or a different host STRUCT.
2015-05-12T05:05:12Z beach: The bridge classes are host instances on which I can apply MOP functions to create ersatz classes.
2015-05-12T05:05:37Z beach: But they are not host classes.
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2015-05-12T05:08:56Z beach: I am sorry that my explanation is confusing.  I need to work on how to describe it better.  It is clear in my head, but it is definitely not clear to me how to describe it to others.
2015-05-12T05:09:29Z WHITE_POWER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1i0w1hawGo
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2015-05-12T05:12:06Z Fare: why can't they share the environment of the host classes?
2015-05-12T05:13:10Z beach: I want to avoid using different package names.  Instead I use the same package name but different environments.
2015-05-12T05:13:42Z Fare: what conflicts are there?
2015-05-12T05:14:00Z Fare: making the classes themselves instances?
2015-05-12T05:14:20Z beach: STANDARD-OBJECT, STANDARD-CLASS, ENSURE-GENERIC-FUNCTION, etc, etc, etc.
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2015-05-12T05:16:15Z beach: My code looks like this: (defclass standard-object (t) ()) ....
2015-05-12T05:16:31Z beach: But I need for that to mean different things in different phases.
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2015-05-12T05:18:18Z Fare: nice
2015-05-12T05:19:08Z Fare: so basically, it's many steps in tying the knot to your boot straps.
2015-05-12T05:19:15Z beach: In phase 1, it means "define a host class that inherits from T and call it STANDARD-OBJECT".  In phase 2 it means "define a host instance of the phase 1 class named STANDARD-CLASS and call it STANDARD-OBJECT.  In phase 3 it means, "use the phase 2 host instance that plays the role of target class named STANDARD-CLASS ....
2015-05-12T05:19:25Z beach: Yes.
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2015-05-12T05:20:26Z Fare: You should pick an old picture of knot tying instructions to illustrate your manual...
2015-05-12T05:20:44Z beach: Not a bad idea.
2015-05-12T05:20:58Z Fare: one in 4 steps.
2015-05-12T05:21:22Z beach: The figures I made resemble such instructions, actually.
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2015-05-12T05:22:14Z beach: I frequently have the problem that I can visualize the graph in my head, but when I try to draw it, it becomes hopelessly complex.
2015-05-12T05:22:20Z Fare: :-)
2015-05-12T05:22:37Z Fare: maybe with T diagrams, it becomes simpler?
2015-05-12T05:22:57Z beach: What are those?
2015-05-12T05:23:24Z beach knows about T accounts in accounting, but not about T diagrams.
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2015-05-12T05:25:42Z beach: Fare: Never mind.  Found the Wikipedia article about them.
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2015-05-12T05:29:55Z jackdaniel: hello
2015-05-12T05:30:22Z jackdaniel: beach: have you seen pull request on ansi-cl-tests?
2015-05-12T05:30:36Z jackdaniel: I've also added a few tests on printing zero and improved gitignore
2015-05-12T05:30:43Z jackdaniel: improved.. created one ^_^
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2015-05-12T05:48:50Z beach: jackdaniel: I saw it.  I'll deal with it soon.
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2015-05-12T05:55:08Z beach: jackdaniel: Thanks for doing that.
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2015-05-12T06:00:55Z Xof: beach: a host-only CLOS/MOP bootstrap has been in my head for about a decade
2015-05-12T06:01:03Z Xof: I admire your actually doing it
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2015-05-12T06:06:33Z beach: Xof: Oh, thanks!
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2015-05-12T06:07:06Z beach: Xof: I tried to do it a year or so ago, before I had first-class global environments.  It became a complete mess.
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2015-05-12T06:18:30Z protist: system::backquote is undefined in sbcl....does sbcl do all backquote fancyness at read time?....or is it just called something else in sbcl?
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2015-05-12T06:20:00Z Bike: it's called something else. sbcl doesn't have a 'system' package.
2015-05-12T06:20:12Z beach: protist: Try: (car (read-from-string "`(a b ,c)"))
2015-05-12T06:20:22Z beach: sb-int:quasiquote
2015-05-12T06:20:30Z Bike: or (write '`(a b ,c) :pretty nil)
2015-05-12T06:20:33Z protist: beach: thank you :)
2015-05-12T06:20:41Z protist: I couldn't remember how I got it to show up before in clisp haha
2015-05-12T06:21:02Z protist: beach: now I will do something clever with #. or #+
2015-05-12T06:21:29Z beach: protist: Just for the hell of it?
2015-05-12T06:21:48Z protist: beach: no I have a read macro that walks the AST
2015-05-12T06:21:55Z protist: beach: it is anaphoric
2015-05-12T06:22:04Z jackdaniel: what should  (format t "~,4,,e" 1.23456789e-10) print? (no sneak peaking in sbcl, I think it gets it wrong)
2015-05-12T06:22:40Z protist: beach: it is seemingly correct on clisp...but just noticed it doesn't work on sbcl :p
2015-05-12T06:23:59Z Bike: let's see, 1.2346e-10?
2015-05-12T06:25:07Z jackdaniel: according to clhs k=1 by default, shouldn't it be 12.34e-11 ?
2015-05-12T06:26:45Z protist: beach: now I need to get the sbcl version of system::unquote
2015-05-12T06:26:53Z Bike: "k significant digits are printed before the decimal point", so uh, shouldn't it not scale.
2015-05-12T06:27:38Z beach: protist: Bike's suggestion gives you that.
2015-05-12T06:28:06Z jackdaniel: Bike: you're right, thanks
2015-05-12T06:28:07Z protist: Bike: thank you
2015-05-12T06:28:12Z protist: beach: thank you :)
2015-05-12T06:28:17Z beach: Sure.
2015-05-12T06:28:23Z beach: Oops. Time to get to work!
2015-05-12T06:28:24Z protist: ah...still don't get unquote
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2015-05-12T06:28:35Z protist: it quotes the others and doesn't unquote that one
2015-05-12T06:28:40Z jackdaniel: then CCL gets it wrong :p
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2015-05-12T06:30:02Z protist: seems sbcl's SB-IMPL::BACKQ-LIST just works like #'list...it takes care of quoting things within as needed
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2015-05-12T06:30:43Z protist: if there is nothing that needs unquoting...then it simplifies the backquote to a quote
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2015-05-12T06:57:41Z SIEG_HEIL: NIGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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2015-05-12T07:01:38Z zacts: *yawn*
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2015-05-12T07:02:14Z akkad hunts for a way to abstract the specifics of a byte type in streams
2015-05-12T07:02:16Z SIEG_HEIL: zacts: heil hitler!
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2015-05-12T07:02:45Z zacts ignores SIEG_HEIL 
2015-05-12T07:03:04Z SIEG_HEIL: NIGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2015-05-12T07:03:17Z H4ns: can someone give the guy a hand?
2015-05-12T07:03:28Z akkad: no clhs entry for that, sorry
2015-05-12T07:03:57Z jackdaniel: how cruel, this person obviously lacks an attention and you ignore it ,p
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2015-05-12T07:04:23Z SIEG_HEIL: all i ever wanted in life was to get attention
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2015-05-12T07:04:36Z SIEG_HEIL: nobody pays attention to me not even on the internet
2015-05-12T07:04:44Z akkad: SIEG_HEIL: see #openbsd.
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2015-05-12T07:04:49Z SIEG_HEIL: =*(
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2015-05-12T07:06:20Z akkad was hoping '(unsigned-byte 8) would cure the woes of 87 (of type FIXNUM) is not of type CHARACTER.
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2015-05-12T07:10:04Z pillton: akkad: char-code and code-char?
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2015-05-12T07:12:19Z akkad: pillton: https://gist.github.com/ed688aaa0a236e5ad828 it encodes/decodes fine until files are involved.
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2015-05-12T07:13:16Z akkad: e.g. (wank-decrypt (wank-crypt "hi2" "secret") "secret")
2015-05-12T07:13:27Z H4ns: akkad: you leak file descriptors.  look at WITH-OPEN-FILE
2015-05-12T07:13:39Z akkad: h4ns yeah I was using those nested.
2015-05-12T07:13:55Z H4ns: "aha"
2015-05-12T07:14:03Z akkad: Take on me?
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2015-05-12T07:15:01Z akkad: only moved to lets due to some odd scope issue
2015-05-12T07:17:04Z akkad: oh I See
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2015-05-12T07:27:44Z protist: Bike: well now my macro works on SBCL and CLISP...not sure I can do better than one implementation at a time
2015-05-12T07:27:59Z protist: Bike: this seems to be behavior that isn't standardized
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2015-05-12T07:30:19Z akkad: ironclad has functions for files I should be using instead
2015-05-12T07:36:00Z jackdaniel: mood: thanks :-)
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2015-05-12T08:21:37Z jackdaniel: make -j9
2015-05-12T08:21:41Z jackdaniel: erp
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2015-05-12T08:25:14Z flip214: make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.
2015-05-12T08:26:14Z jackdaniel: (:
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2015-05-12T08:28:42Z jackdaniel: yay, exponential is scaled correctly now format in ecl
2015-05-12T08:28:54Z jackdaniel: that clears format errors issue queue on tracker
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2015-05-12T10:13:40Z RantingDude: Does quicklisp validate the sourcecode it fetches?
2015-05-12T10:13:56Z H4ns: what do you mean by "validate"?
2015-05-12T10:15:31Z RantingDude:  To ensure that the package truly comes from its author. Otherwise someone coult mitm your package install and compromise your system.
2015-05-12T10:15:54Z easye: RantingDude: There is no current validatin.
2015-05-12T10:16:10Z H4ns: RantingDude: no.
2015-05-12T10:16:28Z easye: Recently, quicklisp has started to use a https repository for fetches, providing some level of secure transport.
2015-05-12T10:16:32Z RantingDude: Not even a checksum?
2015-05-12T10:16:48Z RantingDude: It seems that almost all language package managers just run "untrusted" code from the internet.
2015-05-12T10:17:08Z H4ns: RantingDude: yes.  because you cannot trust the open source community as a whole.
2015-05-12T10:17:30Z RantingDude: But at least i want to be sure, that your code really comes from you.
2015-05-12T10:17:44Z RantingDude: otherwise i can't even start trusting anything
2015-05-12T10:17:50Z H4ns: RantingDude: you don't know me and i cannot be held liable anyway
2015-05-12T10:18:06Z H4ns: RantingDude: you can, and it works so often that there is no observable problem.  which is good.
2015-05-12T10:18:45Z RantingDude: if a e.g. a repo on github has 1000s of users and 3000 stars, i consider trusting it. But i still want to be sure, im not installing any "fake" code.
2015-05-12T10:19:34Z H4ns: RantingDude: well, quicklisp does not give you any guarantee.  if you need to feel secure, you will need to have all code that you execute be independently reviewed.
2015-05-12T10:19:37Z RantingDude: I also don't trust any banks, but want to be sure noone is listening in between when i type in my bank pin
2015-05-12T10:20:01Z H4ns: RantingDude: and, are you sure?  i mean, can you trust your computer?
2015-05-12T10:20:25Z p_l: there's some work in progress for signed packages in QL, afaik, but not it's not yet there
2015-05-12T10:20:28Z H4ns: RantingDude: trust is a life choice, not something that exists or does not.
2015-05-12T10:20:33Z RantingDude: yes, i have no choice. Somewhere your trust must start. Otherwise i wouldn't care and run everything i find.
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2015-05-12T10:25:23Z jackdaniel: well, it's about obstacles. More you put them in a way to your security less probable potential malicious person will actually exploit it
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2015-05-12T10:26:15Z RantingDude: I mean, whats the purpose of gpg signing quicklisps installer, if anything you install after is unverified?
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2015-05-12T10:29:17Z p_l: RantingDude: as I said, there's some progress towards GPG-signing packages themselves (it was discussed at ELS'15)
2015-05-12T10:30:39Z chuchana: RantingDude: As I understand it, this is being worked on. I think that was one of the themes of Xach’s talk at the ELS (https://github.com/quicklisp/els-london-2015), and he just recently added https support to QL (http://blog.quicklisp.org/2015/05/a-small-step-in-right-direction-https.html).
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2015-05-12T10:55:57Z loz: hi guys, any recommendations about code for reading?
2015-05-12T10:57:14Z jackdaniel: loz: https://github.com/edicl/cl-ppcre
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2015-05-12T10:57:49Z d4ryus_ is now known as d4ryus
2015-05-12T10:58:25Z loz: jackdaniel: thank you
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2015-05-12T10:59:23Z jackdaniel: yw (:
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2015-05-12T11:23:46Z jackdaniel: Xach: how to check, which libraries depend on uffi?
2015-05-12T11:24:15Z Shinmera: jackdaniel: ql:who-depends-on
2015-05-12T11:24:35Z jackdaniel: Shinmera: thanks
2015-05-12T11:25:24Z Shinmera: be sure to use a lowercase string for the name or it won't find anything.
2015-05-12T11:25:46Z Shinmera: A slight oversight in the function, probably.
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2015-05-12T11:43:53Z dkcl: Currently only sb-bsd-sockets fails when compiling SBCL under FreeBSD
2015-05-12T11:44:04Z dkcl: sb-concurrency passes
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2015-05-12T12:09:21Z Xach: jackdaniel: i believe that uffi-using code falls into two categories: kmr code, some of which has been updated recently, and old code that has not been updated in a long time
2015-05-12T12:09:28Z Xach: jackdaniel: there may be exceptions, but that's my impression
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2015-05-12T12:45:54Z Denommus`: protist: ping
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2015-05-12T12:46:39Z protist: Denommus`: hello?
2015-05-12T12:46:41Z protist: Denommus`: :)
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2015-05-12T12:47:18Z Denommus`: protist: I am in that FAQ because of a discussion regarding freedom
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2015-05-12T12:47:47Z protist: Denommus`: wow that question was a LONG time ago haha
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2015-05-12T12:47:52Z protist: Denommus`: tell me more :)
2015-05-12T12:47:54Z Denommus`: protist: I was actually right, but the author left it that way for comical purposes
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2015-05-12T12:48:12Z Denommus`: protist: I didn't find you online before
2015-05-12T12:48:22Z Denommus`: Oh, and I have traveled
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2015-05-12T12:48:23Z protist: Denommus`: ah ok :)
2015-05-12T12:48:35Z protist: Denommus`: what were you right about?
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2015-05-12T12:48:56Z protist: Denommus`: travelled where?
2015-05-12T12:49:11Z Denommus`: To the country
2015-05-12T12:49:36Z protist: and to everyone here...I just updated something of mine to not step on a built in read-macro https://github.com/GordianNaught/Function-Literal
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2015-05-12T12:49:48Z protist: that only works for CLISP and SBCL at the moment
2015-05-12T12:49:54Z protist: does anyone have a way to fix it?
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2015-05-12T12:50:04Z protist: as in, to make it standards conforming?
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2015-05-12T12:56:17Z protist: Denommus`: which country? lol
2015-05-12T12:56:54Z Denommus`: protist: "country" as in some rural city from my state
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2015-05-12T12:58:03Z protist: Denommus`: I still don't know how you traveling is relevant...did you just travel?
2015-05-12T12:58:14Z protist: Denommus`: it seems like a strange announcement without any context
2015-05-12T12:58:36Z protist: Denommus`: or was it part of another discussion?
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2015-05-12T12:58:58Z Denommus`: protist: I could have answered before, have I not traveled. Only that
2015-05-12T12:59:42Z protist: Denommus`: I'm confused...it is probably my fault :p
2015-05-12T13:00:02Z protist: Denommus`: don't worry about it haha
2015-05-12T13:00:48Z protist: Denommus`: can you think of a way to make my read-macro completely portable? https://github.com/GordianNaught/Function-Literal
2015-05-12T13:01:00Z protist: Denommus`: I have a feeling you might know a trick I don't
2015-05-12T13:01:37Z Denommus`: protist: I'm on a phone, kinda hard to test some solution from here
2015-05-12T13:01:40Z protist: Denommus`: my unquoted-symbols and subst-unquoted-symbol functions are only designed for SBCL and CLISP
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2015-05-12T13:01:55Z protist: Denommus`: ok that is fine :)...let me know if you do take a look later
2015-05-12T13:02:02Z Denommus`: protist: ok
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2015-05-12T13:51:04Z oleo: hello :)
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2015-05-12T14:21:45Z failproofshark: hello
2015-05-12T14:22:09Z oleo: hello failproofshark
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2015-05-12T14:23:52Z failproofshark: how goes it oleo ?
2015-05-12T14:24:23Z oleo: fine failproofshark, i'm drinking coffee eating some cake and trying to relax first....
2015-05-12T14:24:30Z oleo: and you ?
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2015-05-12T14:26:45Z oleo: i tried to plot some functions yesterday, and you know what when i have x-ranges differing, my plots are off-sync
2015-05-12T14:27:02Z oleo: as long as i have the same x-ranges for the different functions it's all ok.....
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2015-05-12T14:27:19Z oleo: so annoying, i think i have to find another way.....
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2015-05-12T14:27:55Z failproofshark: i'm fine thanks. ah yes you were working on something involving plotting functions and mcclim i believe (I apologize if i'm entirely off)
2015-05-12T14:28:32Z Denommus`: > mfix (\x -> [x])
2015-05-12T14:28:53Z oleo: well naive intro into plotting actually.....
2015-05-12T14:28:56Z Denommus`: Sorry, wrong channel
2015-05-12T14:29:01Z oleo: np Denommus
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2015-05-12T14:29:49Z oleo: i'm not so much into how did maxima did it or so, more into what are the principle difficulties which arise when you try that route.....
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2015-05-12T14:29:58Z oleo: heh
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2015-05-12T14:43:19Z oleo: so far http://paste.lisp.org/display/148160
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2015-05-12T15:02:02Z oleo: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/sines.1431442892.png
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2015-05-12T15:02:19Z eudoxia: nice
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2015-05-12T15:04:38Z oleo: that happens when i try to draw from 1 to 2pi instead of 2 to 2pi http://www.picpaste.com/pics/axisgap.1431443048.png
2015-05-12T15:04:49Z oleo: excluded region
2015-05-12T15:04:52Z oleo: heh
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2015-05-12T15:18:56Z oleo: however the version without fit-xy... is better http://www.picpaste.com/pics/nogaps.1431443894.png
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2015-05-12T15:52:19Z ahungry: What's a good DOM parser that has functions that can: 1. Parse the DOM, 2. Modify the nodes, 3. Write the modified DOM back to a string/stream?
2015-05-12T15:52:52Z ahungry: I tried cl-html5-parser and it seems to do 1 and 2, but not #3 (albeit no documentation on anything)
2015-05-12T15:53:30Z Zotan_: Can anyone recommend a good asdf quick start guide?
2015-05-12T15:53:51Z Zotan_: I'm failing to find a system definition that's in the current directory
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2015-05-12T15:54:22Z Cymew: Zotan_: What implementation are you using?
2015-05-12T15:54:26Z Zotan_: sbcl
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2015-05-12T15:55:03Z Zotan_: Cymew: on Ubuntu Trusty
2015-05-12T15:55:29Z Cymew: check the same directory where you have the sbcl docs, and there should hopefully be a asdf pdf/html as well. That one should answer all your questions. It's not exactly a quick start, but it's something.
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2015-05-12T15:56:18Z Cymew: I think that asdf manual should be bundled with other implementations as well
2015-05-12T15:56:49Z Cymew: A pure quick start is kind of lacking, since the big change from asdf2 to asdf3
2015-05-12T15:57:24Z Cymew: Otherwise, quicklisp can be used to use local projects.
2015-05-12T15:57:38Z Cymew: "used to load"
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2015-05-12T16:00:15Z Zotan_: Cymew: thanks, I'll have a dig
2015-05-12T16:00:15Z rpg: Zotan_: is there any chance you have that horrible Debian Common Lisp Controller installed?
2015-05-12T16:00:31Z rpg: That makes ASDF's behavior confusing...
2015-05-12T16:00:35Z Zotan_: rpg: I don't know what that is, so yes
2015-05-12T16:00:58Z rpg: I think it's called "clocc", but I'm not sure. If it's there, I suggest removing it.
2015-05-12T16:01:42Z rpg: Cymew: I'd be happy to incorporate a quickstart into the ASDF manual.
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2015-05-12T16:02:46Z Cymew: Once I figure out how to distill that monster to a quick start, I will submit one! ;)
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2015-05-12T16:03:22Z rpg: Cymew: I think right now it's "put your projects in a directory called ~/common-lisp/ and ASDF will find them."
2015-05-12T16:03:36Z Cymew: Could be
2015-05-12T16:03:36Z rpg: ...without any configuration.
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2015-05-12T16:03:57Z Cymew: I did something else, but I think it was a bit of cut and paste from Xach
2015-05-12T16:04:27Z Zotan_: rpg: the package is called common-lisp-controller on my system and I've got rid of it
2015-05-12T16:04:36Z Cymew: It's a great tool, but I'm not smart enough to understand it...
2015-05-12T16:04:49Z Cymew: time to run.
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2015-05-12T16:05:33Z rpg: Zotan_: that will at least simplify things.
2015-05-12T16:05:52Z rpg: If you want to use ASDF and not configure, you should be able to just put all your projects in subdirectories of ~/common-lisp/
2015-05-12T16:06:00Z rpg: Depending on the version of ASDF/SBCL you have.
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2015-05-12T16:06:41Z rpg: I have no idea what you get with Debian. I always build my own SBCL so I can know what version I have.
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2015-05-12T16:09:04Z LiamH: CLOCC is not CLC
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2015-05-12T16:09:23Z LiamH: CLOCC is an old library of common utilities.
2015-05-12T16:09:40Z LiamH: And portability interfaces.
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2015-05-12T16:10:47Z emaczen: How can I query hunchentoot from the REPL to see how my server is working? I tried looking at the special variable *dispatch-table* which I thought would be a list of the easy-handlers that I made, but it appears to have never been modified as it returns (DISPATCH-EASY-HANDLERS)
2015-05-12T16:11:03Z emaczen: I'm interested in looking at threads as well.
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2015-05-12T16:19:58Z Shinmera: ahungry: Plump.
2015-05-12T16:21:03Z bobbysmith007: emaczen: you can probably look at dispatch-easy-handlers (M-.) , see what variables its storing the easy handlers in and inspect that variable
2015-05-12T16:21:41Z bobbysmith007: emaczen: also F-12 then T in emacs pulls up slimes thread inspector (which is not super fabulous, but better than nothing
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2015-05-12T16:23:46Z emaczen: bobbysmith007: Thanks, I'll check it out. I'm still surprised that *dispatch-table* doesn't show me the list of easy-handlers I made.
2015-05-12T16:24:20Z emaczen: bobbysmith007: My program is functional (requests and responses do execute) but I am trying to get to the bottom of a "bug"
2015-05-12T16:24:34Z ehu: $ aptitude search common-lisp
2015-05-12T16:24:34Z ehu: p   common-lisp-controller          - Common Lisp source and compiler manager
2015-05-12T16:24:46Z ehu: from wheezy on common-lisp.net
2015-05-12T16:24:57Z ehu: so, it's called common-lisp-controller
2015-05-12T16:25:53Z emaczen: bobbysmith007: f12 does not work for me.
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2015-05-12T16:31:52Z bobbysmith007: emaczen: M-x slime-list-threads
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2015-05-12T16:32:07Z bobbysmith007: emaczen: you can also invoke the debugger on or kill each thread from that buffer
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2015-05-12T16:33:47Z emaczen: bobbysmith007: Cool, I can see three "hunchentoot-workers" can I get any more information?
2015-05-12T16:33:51Z emaczen: about the threads
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2015-05-12T16:35:37Z emaczen: When I type "d" which should invoke the debugger it tells me that I have a "bogus stack frame"
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2015-05-12T16:36:13Z emaczen: ahhh that appeared to kill them
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2015-05-12T16:37:18Z ahungry: Shinmera: thanks
2015-05-12T16:37:33Z Shinmera: ahungry: If you want an easier time modifying the DOM, look at lQuery.
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2015-05-12T16:50:31Z bobbysmith007: emaczen: thats a shame... I dont debug threads that way often
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2015-05-12T16:51:37Z bobbysmith007: emaczen: *easy-handler-alist* is the hunchentoot var to inspect
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2015-05-12T16:56:15Z oleo: oh man tangens throws me totally off, look how much i have to scroll back....
2015-05-12T16:56:17Z oleo: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/tangens.1431449741.png
2015-05-12T16:58:16Z Zotan_: rpg: I gave up and just added a conf file to .config/common-lisp/... pretty painful for a someone new to lisp.
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2015-05-12T16:58:30Z Zotan_: rpg: It works though
2015-05-12T17:00:12Z emaczen: bobbysmith007: Even though slime-list-threads doesn't do much it helped me fix the problem :)
2015-05-12T17:01:26Z ahungry: Shinmera: pardon my impatience but I don't see a full API doc for Plump (maybe i'm missing it).  After calling (plump:parse *html*) on my *html* string, how can I find an '<input type="password">' element, set a value="something" on it and then write the modified DOM to a string? (plump:serialize *) doesn't seem to return a string
2015-05-12T17:01:45Z ahungry: if you could pastebin me a sample if you have time
2015-05-12T17:02:01Z Shinmera: There's an about.html included.
2015-05-12T17:02:08Z ahungry: NOthing nefarious, thinking of making an html parser for a custom privoxy filter that would let me auto fill my passwords when using browsers that dont support password saving
2015-05-12T17:02:13Z Shinmera: And http://shinmera.github.io/plump/
2015-05-12T17:02:18Z ahungry: ok I got it from quicklisp so missed it ty =]
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2015-05-12T17:02:51Z Shinmera: Finding your element is a matter of traversing it, or using CLSS/lQuery.
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2015-05-12T17:05:12Z Shinmera: ahungry: Using lQuery your app would be (lquery:$ (initialize my-string) "input[type=password]" (val "something") (serialize NIL) (node))
2015-05-12T17:05:22Z ahungry: oh cool lquery extends your plump library - wanted to give plump a try since you wrote it before going to another one
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2015-05-12T17:05:42Z Shinmera: Err, actually my above snippet won't quite work.
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2015-05-12T17:06:16Z Shinmera: Something like (lquery:$  (initialize "<a><input type=\"password\"></a>") "input[type=\"password\"]" (val "something") lquery:*lquery-master-document* (serialize NIL) (node))
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2015-05-12T17:06:40Z Shinmera: I hope you get the gist.
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2015-05-12T17:07:00Z ahungry: thanks Shinmera
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2015-05-12T17:19:40Z lb5tr: Hi guys
2015-05-12T17:20:27Z lb5tr: I was wondering if it's possible to automatically install all dependencies defined by system (:depends-on) using quicklisp?
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2015-05-12T17:21:09Z Shinmera: That's what it will do, or what do you mean?
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2015-05-12T17:21:34Z lb5tr: Well I have multiple of dependencies
2015-05-12T17:21:38Z Shinmera: So?
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2015-05-12T17:21:43Z lb5tr: and I want to install them all with on command
2015-05-12T17:21:50Z Shinmera: Just quickload like always.
2015-05-12T17:22:14Z lb5tr: but I have have to (ql:quickload 'first-dependency) (ql:quickload 'second-dependecy) ...
2015-05-12T17:22:17Z lb5tr: and so on
2015-05-12T17:22:19Z Shinmera: No?
2015-05-12T17:22:26Z Shinmera: Just quickload your system
2015-05-12T17:22:27Z lb5tr: I don't _know_ who to do this better
2015-05-12T17:22:31Z lb5tr: o
2015-05-12T17:22:42Z lb5tr: let my try that
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2015-05-12T17:22:54Z Shinmera: quickload also accepts a list of systems, so (ql:quickload '(foo bar baz))
2015-05-12T17:23:00Z Shinmera: For future use.
2015-05-12T17:23:06Z lb5tr: Do I need to push it asdf-registry first?
2015-05-12T17:23:28Z Shinmera: Put it into ~/quicklisp/local-projects , or register it with ASDF.
2015-05-12T17:23:51Z Shinmera: Either way should work.
2015-05-12T17:23:56Z lb5tr: Shinmera: thanks!
2015-05-12T17:24:17Z Shinmera: Sure. Sorry it took so long to answer. I was confused.
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2015-05-12T17:25:04Z oleo: eww, i have to use clipping regions.....
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2015-05-12T17:28:31Z lb5tr: Shinmera: np, I'm still confused by systems/packages/modules
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2015-05-12T17:34:32Z Xach: lb5tr: things get easy when you're familiar with the terms. it takes time.
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2015-05-12T17:47:52Z bobbysmith007: emaczen: whelp, glad my blind flailing helped in someway ;)
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2015-05-12T18:01:45Z ahungry: how can you suppress output for things like quickload?
2015-05-12T18:02:16Z Shinmera: quickload has a silent key arg.
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2015-05-12T18:03:02Z zacts: hello
2015-05-12T18:03:11Z zacts: is http://common-lisp.net a good resource?
2015-05-12T18:03:22Z zacts: or should I just stick with the common lisp wiki?
2015-05-12T18:03:38Z Shinmera: Otherwise you can do something like (let ((*standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream))) ..) to silence everything that would be sent to standard-output.
2015-05-12T18:04:31Z zacts: hm.. it just seems like an entry point to the cliki, and other community resources
2015-05-12T18:04:35Z zacts: cool
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2015-05-12T18:05:26Z zacts: Xach: are you the clisp maintainer?
2015-05-12T18:05:49Z zacts: I saw a post on lisp planet that clisp needs new maintainers / contributors
2015-05-12T18:06:12Z zacts: oh, it was just hosted on your blog
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2015-05-12T18:06:25Z zacts: it seems that you weren't the one posting to the mailing list
2015-05-12T18:06:43Z zacts: hm... perhaps a long term goal for myself would be to contribute to one of the CL implementations
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2015-05-12T18:08:45Z Xach: zacts: i am just an observer
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2015-05-12T18:09:13Z zacts: :-)
2015-05-12T18:09:15Z Xach: zacts: i hope to make people aware that implementations don't just go on indefinitely - if people don't help out, they can stop.
2015-05-12T18:09:30Z zacts: ah yeah
2015-05-12T18:09:53Z zacts: I noticed that clisp didn't seem to make it into debian jessie
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2015-05-12T18:14:17Z ahungry: ty Shinmera
2015-05-12T18:16:28Z k-stz: zacts: do you know why?
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2015-05-12T18:25:01Z zacts: k-stz: no
2015-05-12T18:25:03Z zacts: I do not
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2015-05-12T18:43:33Z jasom: they need to change the version number, or everyone will think it's dead
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2015-05-12T19:06:18Z druid_greeneyes: Are the rules for what does and does not get on quicklisp written up somewhere?
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2015-05-12T19:07:10Z Shinmera: http://blog.quicklisp.org/2015/01/getting-library-into-quicklisp.html
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2015-05-12T19:08:23Z druid_greeneyes: thanks
2015-05-12T19:08:52Z druid_greeneyes: IYI, I've been working through Lisp Web Tales, and figured I'd have a look at restas-project
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2015-05-12T19:09:10Z druid_greeneyes: see if I could figure out what was wrong with it (because apparently it was available once)
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2015-05-12T19:26:47Z akkad: druid_greeneyes: you from Austin? and AHA?
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2015-05-12T19:27:25Z Xach: druid_greeneyes: what suggests to you that it was available once?
2015-05-12T19:28:11Z akkad: sbcl: 6 secs, lw7 2min 12 secs. https://gist.github.com/18a5f75a4f7445843ac0 on a 400MB file. not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or ironclad is just that optimized for sbcl
2015-05-12T19:29:32Z Xach: akkad: did you compile the code on lispworks?
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2015-05-12T19:35:06Z Xach: akkad: the suspense is killing me!!!
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2015-05-12T19:36:33Z druid_greeneyes: akkad, no; I apologize if I've given that impression
2015-05-12T19:37:35Z Shinmera: akkad: Ironclad has a bunch of optimisations especially for SBCL.
2015-05-12T19:38:25Z druid_greeneyes: Xach, Lisp Web Tales does: 'Let's create a new Restas project...(ql:quickload "restas-project")'
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2015-05-12T19:40:04Z druid_greeneyes: LWT is obviously out of date, but that does at least imply that restas-project was once available through quicklisp
2015-05-12T19:42:03Z Xach: druid_greeneyes: it's possible. i don't remember it, but maybe i removed it a long time ago or something.
2015-05-12T19:43:23Z akkad: Xach I just eval'd it, I will deliver it and see
2015-05-12T19:43:39Z Xach: akkad: that means it's uncompiled. that will be slower than compiled.
2015-05-12T19:43:59Z akkad: so in the repl I can compile each function
2015-05-12T19:44:03Z akkad: right sbcl compiles
2015-05-12T19:44:21Z Xach: Easy, too, to compile-file, though the bare quickload will need to be revised.
2015-05-12T19:45:44Z druid_greeneyes: Xach, *shrug* I'm just reviewing the source code to see if I can catch any super obvious errors
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2015-05-12T19:46:32Z druid_greeneyes: I figure it's a simple enough project that fixing it seems like a good learning opportunity
2015-05-12T19:46:44Z Xach: druid_greeneyes: where is restas-project?
2015-05-12T19:46:56Z druid_greeneyes: https://github.com/pvlpenev/restas-project
2015-05-12T19:49:14Z Xach: Ok, I just checked git history, that was never in quicklisp. But you can still quickload things that don't come with quicklisp, as long as they are visible via asdf.
2015-05-12T19:49:24Z Xach: You could clone it into ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ and still use ql:quickload
2015-05-12T19:49:45Z druid_greeneyes: good to know; thanks
2015-05-12T19:50:51Z kephra: *lol* there are lots of cute girls, if you search for Lisp on YT - but they are not coders ;-(
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2015-05-12T19:54:31Z Xach: Lisp is a term with more than one meaning.
2015-05-12T19:54:52Z druid_greeneyes: false
2015-05-12T19:55:03Z druid_greeneyes: And the Lord sayeth, there is no Lisp but Lisp.
2015-05-12T19:55:15Z druid_greeneyes: :)
2015-05-12T19:55:33Z dlowe: And then the Devil asked, do you mean Lisp-1 or Lisp-2?
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2015-05-12T19:55:48Z dlowe: and was thrown from heaven.
2015-05-12T19:56:22Z druid_greeneyes: To wander forever from one Blub to the next.
2015-05-12T19:56:26Z clop claps
2015-05-12T19:56:37Z oleo: lol
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2015-05-12T20:00:41Z akkad: Xach so compiled it's 133s vs 6s
2015-05-12T20:01:01Z akkad: http://github.com/ober/jcrypt
2015-05-12T20:01:01Z Xach: akkad: nice
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2015-05-12T20:04:21Z akkad: well rather lw7 gets 133s vs sbcl 6s
2015-05-12T20:04:34Z akkad: just wanted to make sure it was not something dumb in the code
2015-05-12T20:05:09Z Xach remembers speeding up a large project 50% by adding a single COMPILE line
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2015-05-12T20:05:18Z akkad: profiling did not yield anything major in there
2015-05-12T20:06:19Z Xach: lispworks has a separate API for doing 32-bit modular arithmetic
2015-05-12T20:06:42Z jackdaniel: Lisph or die! :D
2015-05-12T20:07:20Z akkad: Xach sounds like a good chance to optimize for lw :P
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2015-05-12T20:08:09Z akkad: acl has to be better
2015-05-12T20:08:14Z akkad wanders off to spend more
2015-05-12T20:08:38Z Xach wonders if there's also an api for 64-bit modular arithmetic
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2015-05-12T20:08:58Z Xach: SBCL optimizes explicit modular arithmetic without a distinct API
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2015-05-12T20:09:18Z Xach: e.g. (logand #xFF... (+ a b)) can compile to modular code
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2015-05-12T20:22:43Z pjb: jasom: actually, on MS-Windows, somebody built a commercial CL IDE using clisp.
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2015-05-12T20:36:11Z kephra: dlowe, and then Zarathustra spoke: let it be light and shadow: Common Lisp and Scheme
2015-05-12T20:37:39Z akkad:  spake
2015-05-12T20:38:43Z Xach: ehu: where is imago on gitlab?
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2015-05-12T20:41:18Z jasom: pjb: what is it called?
2015-05-12T20:45:21Z pjb: http://www.ufasoft.com/lisp/
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2015-05-12T20:49:45Z ehu: Xach: ah. just created that. Julian had converted it to git just before we started moving everything to GitLab. However, for some reason it wasn't migrated in the Git migration (which I thought it was, based on his feedback); I moved the CVS repository out of the way, to prevent the git repo from being overwritten.
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2015-05-12T20:50:02Z ehu: I've now put the new (git) repo in place in gitlab.
2015-05-12T20:50:22Z Xach: ehu: how about misc-extensions?
2015-05-12T20:51:46Z ehu: misc-extensions has 2 repositories: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/groups/misc-extensions
2015-05-12T20:52:00Z ehu: "etc" and "devel"
2015-05-12T20:52:07Z ehu: those were the modules in the CVS repo.
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2015-05-12T20:52:31Z ehu: you probably want devel, right?
2015-05-12T20:52:35Z Xach: I think so, yes.
2015-05-12T20:53:04Z ehu: "etc" only has a file called "bountyoss.text"
2015-05-12T20:53:09Z Xach: that works, thanks
2015-05-12T20:53:12Z ehu: (I see that now)
2015-05-12T20:53:22Z ehu: sure. np.
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2015-05-12T21:00:02Z Xach: Down to one final cvs project in quicklisp! cl-bibtex
2015-05-12T21:01:34Z Xach wonders if anyone downloads it
2015-05-12T21:01:36Z Fade: nice :)
2015-05-12T21:01:37Z Xach has that data!
2015-05-12T21:02:24Z Xach: "not many"
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2015-05-12T21:03:47Z ehu: Xach: where's cl-bibtex hosted?
2015-05-12T21:04:11Z ehu wonders who still hosts CVS repositories
2015-05-12T21:04:37Z ehu: I thought we were one of the last on the web to do away with CVS as a public service.
2015-05-12T21:04:59Z ehu: (I'm sure inside orgs, there's a lot of it still around, but not publicly accessible/visible)
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2015-05-12T21:06:17Z Xach: cl-bibtex is on savannah
2015-05-12T21:06:17Z ehu: ok. off to get some rest. Xach, if you have any remaining questions, please mail me and I'll get to it in the morning.
2015-05-12T21:06:25Z Xach: ehu: things look splendid to me. thanks for migrating!
2015-05-12T21:06:44Z ehu: you're most welcome! :-)
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2015-05-12T21:07:32Z ehu: I'm glad we found people so receptive to our desire to trim down the complexity of the common-lisp.net service.
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2015-05-12T22:34:50Z Xach: yay, cl-bibtex updated to https://github.com/mkoeppe/cl-bibtex
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2015-05-12T22:55:46Z jasom: It's easy to forget how good CVS was when it came out about 30 years ago.
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2015-05-12T23:13:22Z easye: What's the repo uri for the CL ansi-tests?
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2015-05-12T23:24:45Z Xach: easye: there is more than one
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2015-05-12T23:25:11Z Xach: There's one that's part of gcl, and one that beach has been working on updating
2015-05-12T23:25:15Z Xach: and at least one more
2015-05-12T23:25:28Z easye: changeset:   2129:42bf56a5337f
2015-05-12T23:25:29Z easye: tag:         tip
2015-05-12T23:25:29Z easye: user:        ehuelsmann@9bf3d7d6-7dd8-11dd-ad1d-697a6521c0a0
2015-05-12T23:25:29Z easye: date:        Sun Sep 25 21:02:28 2011 +0000
2015-05-12T23:25:32Z easye: summary:     Test that local function and macro definitions shadow global macro,
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2015-05-12T23:25:53Z easye: Xach: Is that the last update of yours?
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2015-05-12T23:26:14Z Xach: easye: No. I'm not ehu.
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2015-05-12T23:26:28Z easye: Ah.  So you have local changes?
2015-05-12T23:26:30Z Xach: I don't have one of my own and don't track any.
2015-05-12T23:26:37Z easye: Understood.
2015-05-12T23:26:42Z Xach: I have never used ansi-tests in anger
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2015-05-12T23:27:02Z easye: <svn+https://svn.common-lisp.net/ansi-test/trunk/ansi-tests/> is what I'm looking at.
2015-05-12T23:28:01Z easye: Someone mentioned a "pull request" to the "cl-ansi-tests" the other day.  Which confused me, as I didn't know where to find pull requests for the GCL ANSI tests.
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2015-05-12T23:28:17Z Xach: https://github.com/robert-strandh/ansi-cl-tests is beach's project
2015-05-12T23:28:22Z easye has used Ant in anger.
2015-05-12T23:28:41Z Xach: https://github.com/robert-strandh/ansi-cl-tests/pulls has a pull request
2015-05-12T23:28:43Z easye: Wow.
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2015-05-12T23:29:05Z easye: beach has really extended them.  Very interesting.
2015-05-12T23:29:40Z pjb: easye: are you sure? It's 2011-09-25 23:02:28
2015-05-12T23:29:40Z easye: Not "really" but at least package-ized them in a more sane manner.
2015-05-12T23:30:14Z easye: pjb: beach's github uri that Xach post was updated this April.
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2015-05-12T23:30:50Z pjb: yes, it's better than the svn.
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2015-05-12T23:31:13Z easye: Alright.  common-lisp.net should mirror github here.
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2015-05-12T23:49:02Z pillton: Xach: Thanks for the paper on managing *features*.
2015-05-12T23:49:16Z Xach: pillton: it's good stuff
2015-05-12T23:52:32Z pillton: Xach: Yeah. I really like the programmatic discovery nudge to improve maintainability. I'm not sure about compile time only features though.
2015-05-12T23:53:16Z pillton: Xach: Which reminds me, I need to submit a bug to SLIME about handling #+package::symbol properly.
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