2015-03-04T00:00:35Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T00:01:06Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:01:50Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:02:30Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:02:56Z eudoxia: jasom: do you have a directory for your parenscript+react stuff? 2015-03-04T00:03:12Z eudoxia: i mean, a repository. derp 2015-03-04T00:03:38Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:03:49Z Petit_Dejeuner__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:07:45Z jasom: eudoxia: I'll put it up tonight 2015-03-04T00:07:58Z eudoxia: thanks 2015-03-04T00:08:14Z eudoxia: does it generate JSX templates, or the actual createElement etc. functions? 2015-03-04T00:08:26Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:08:27Z jasom: eudoxia: It might be *slightly* hacky, but I haven't run into any problems with it yet, and it allows using an unmodified parenscript and cl-who 2015-03-04T00:08:30Z jasom: JSX templates 2015-03-04T00:08:46Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:08:54Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:08:55Z eudoxia: hm so you still have to run it through the JSX transformer or react-tools 2015-03-04T00:09:01Z jasom: I think the createElement etc. functions would be in many ways superior, but I wanted something that just worked now, and I couldn't find any good docs on the specifics of the JSX transformer 2015-03-04T00:09:15Z eudoxia: hm 2015-03-04T00:09:37Z jasom: eudoxia: Yeah, I have the same script that generates the parenscript run the jsx transformer (and then google closure on it if I'm not debuggign) 2015-03-04T00:10:31Z jasom: Also, in the process, I found and fixed a bug in their JSX tool. 2015-03-04T00:10:39Z eudoxia: nice 2015-03-04T00:10:52Z zyaku joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:10:59Z jasom: https://github.com/facebook/react/pull/3129 2015-03-04T00:11:29Z jasom: short-version: If the expression in a { } block in JSX is parenthesized, the transformer generates incorrect code 2015-03-04T00:11:58Z jasom: and parenscript will over-parenthesize e.g. lambda expressions 2015-03-04T00:12:11Z eudoxia: oh my god they are so autismal about style 2015-03-04T00:12:21Z eudoxia: muh single quotes 2015-03-04T00:12:47Z jasom: they are also *really* care about the whitespace in the outputted code 2015-03-04T00:13:10Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:13:42Z jasom: The simple and clean fix is to output the comma in the function that calls into the JSXElement. However, that would mean putting the comma after all the whitespace and comments 2015-03-04T00:14:12Z jasom: so a lot of times there's a newline followed by a comma instead of the other-way around 2015-03-04T00:14:12Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:14:38Z jasom: so instead I had to walk through the code character by character and find the last non-whitespace non-comment character and insert the comma right after that *sigh* 2015-03-04T00:15:20Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:15:24Z eudoxia: thank you for your toil 2015-03-04T00:15:52Z eudoxia: i've just started trying react yesterday and i rather like it 2015-03-04T00:15:59Z jasom: Perhaps they will accept the pull request some day; They are cutting a release-candidate right now, which I assume explains the 12 days of radio-silence 2015-03-04T00:16:18Z pillton: Why fuss about the whitespace? 2015-03-04T00:16:22Z jasom: eudoxia: yeah, it is by far the best way to do dynamic DOM stuff I've ever used 2015-03-04T00:16:47Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:16:48Z jasom: pillton: my only guess is that JS debugging is line-oriented in the browser 2015-03-04T00:17:50Z eudoxia: js debugging is a disgrace 2015-03-04T00:18:02Z pillton: Heh. What people put up with. I think we need a union. 2015-03-04T00:18:05Z xrash joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:18:34Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:18:35Z eudoxia: burn the browser 2k15 2015-03-04T00:18:47Z jasom: pillton: they are quite strict about style in general, and want all of the JSX output to pass their strict linting tools if the input would. 2015-03-04T00:20:30Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:21:15Z pillton: It is a waste of effort in my opinion. Why not focus on testing then you wouldn't have to look at it so regularly? 2015-03-04T00:21:32Z Bicyclidine quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-04T00:21:45Z jasom: well remember that whitespace can be significant in JS 2015-03-04T00:22:21Z jasom: It almost never is, but very rarely can be... 2015-03-04T00:23:16Z pillton adds another row to the reasons why he does not need to learn about the web. 2015-03-04T00:23:23Z jasom: haha 2015-03-04T00:23:40Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:23:55Z jasom: javascript is a language that has lexical closures and garbage collection, but still manages to have more ugly corner cases than C 2015-03-04T00:24:46Z jasom: for example, functions don't close over the "this" value, as the "this" value is implicitly bound at every function call, and if you make a bare function call (i.e. not a method invocation) "this" is bound to the global environment 2015-03-04T00:25:30Z pillton: jasom: You aren't going to convince me. :) 2015-03-04T00:25:41Z eudoxia: all this 'this' bullshit is so confusing to me 2015-03-04T00:26:12Z eudoxia: whenever i do something like 'var self = this;' up the scope i think, obviously i dont know enough about this language 2015-03-04T00:26:21Z eudoxia: then again who wants to 2015-03-04T00:26:23Z jasom: pillton: I didn't even get to the part where if you accidentally invoke a constructor (which is just a function in javascript) without the new, instead of creating a new object, you add all of those values to the global environment :) 2015-03-04T00:26:52Z pillton adds another row. 2015-03-04T00:27:06Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-04T00:27:13Z Petit_Dejeuner__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:27:16Z jasom: eudoxia: you need to do that a *lot* in parenscript as it doesn't bind this in implicitly generated lambda's; I opened a bug for that, but haven't dug in to fix it yet 2015-03-04T00:27:26Z eudoxia: ugh 2015-03-04T00:27:41Z jasom: I will fix it next week if it's not to bad 2015-03-04T00:27:51Z eudoxia: somebody *cough cough* ought to write a lispier parenscript interface to react 2015-03-04T00:27:59Z pillton: I was going to start a blog this year. I am not so sure now. I might distribute it via bittorrent sync. 2015-03-04T00:28:17Z jasom: pillton: just put a bunch of .org files in a github account ;) 2015-03-04T00:28:29Z jasom: eudoxia: I've got a few basic things. 2015-03-04T00:28:58Z jasom: I have a "defreact" macro that takes care of all the boilerplate for defining a react element 2015-03-04T00:29:14Z theethicalegoist joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:29:24Z eudoxia: hmm i think i saw that 2015-03-04T00:29:26Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:30:26Z jasom: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146054 2015-03-04T00:31:57Z eudoxia: why not use keywords for :render, :handle-changed etc 2015-03-04T00:32:00Z jasom: Anything react related that isn't specific to the application I'm writing I put in with the JSX generator system 2015-03-04T00:32:20Z jasom: eudoxia: because that's not how parenscript works 2015-03-04T00:32:24Z jasom: these are javascript identifiers 2015-03-04T00:32:36Z eudoxia: o right, the create macro 2015-03-04T00:32:45Z jasom: you want it to be foo.handleChanged not foo['handle-changed'] 2015-03-04T00:33:32Z jasom: eudoxia: also, something I just learned today that can let me eliminate a lot of closures I generated is that javascript supports partial application while also binding "this" 2015-03-04T00:33:55Z eudoxia: like .bind(this)? 2015-03-04T00:34:06Z jasom: like .bind(this,arg1,arg2) 2015-03-04T00:34:37Z jasom: so.. handleEventForChild(child,ev).bind(this,children[i]) 2015-03-04T00:35:18Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:35:23Z jasom: Before I had a function that just closed over it's one argument (which was the child) that I used to generate the handler; this way is a lot more clear, IMO 2015-03-04T00:35:29Z jleija joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:35:44Z Petit_Dejeuner__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:36:43Z eudoxia: well keep fighting the good fight jasom, i'm off to sleep 2015-03-04T00:36:45Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T00:37:02Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:37:16Z nell joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:40:09Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:40:33Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:41:47Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:44:02Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:47:47Z echo-area quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T00:48:37Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:50:13Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:50:20Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T00:57:26Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T00:59:07Z theethicalegoist quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T01:03:02Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv) 2015-03-04T01:05:23Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:10:28Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:12:23Z Soft quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-04T01:14:47Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW) 2015-03-04T01:18:44Z gklimowicz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T01:20:09Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-03-04T01:20:20Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-04T01:20:22Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-04T01:20:23Z Niac_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:20:30Z Denommus quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-04T01:22:17Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:27:17Z zyaku quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T01:27:25Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T01:27:47Z Soft joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:28:21Z antgreen joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:33:39Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2015-03-04T01:33:59Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T01:34:45Z RedEight quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-04T01:35:41Z moei joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:37:26Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T01:38:57Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:38:58Z oleo quit (Changing host) 2015-03-04T01:38:58Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:39:09Z akkad: sbcl under netbsd does not support threads. linux sbcl under netbsd does.... :P 2015-03-04T01:40:12Z joshe: I recently tried to build sbcl under netbsd and was not successful 2015-03-04T01:41:35Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T01:43:39Z keen__________77 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:44:52Z keen__________76 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T01:45:10Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T01:47:29Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T01:48:12Z gklimowicz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:50:33Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:50:49Z manuel__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T01:51:02Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:52:22Z White_Flame joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:55:06Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T01:59:46Z bb010g joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:00:54Z nightshade427 quit (Quit: bye) 2015-03-04T02:01:39Z nell joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:01:47Z thodg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T02:02:43Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:04:17Z paroneayea quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T02:04:46Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:04:49Z paroneayea joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:06:16Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:07:14Z modula joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:07:49Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:08:09Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T02:08:09Z modula is now known as defaultxr 2015-03-04T02:11:30Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T02:15:00Z jlongster joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:15:22Z Longlius quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T02:20:58Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-04T02:25:58Z LiamH joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:25:59Z akkad: joshe it should build from pkgsrc. 2015-03-04T02:27:09Z joshe: I was building from current git 2015-03-04T02:27:23Z joshe: are there patches in pkgsrc which should be committed? 2015-03-04T02:30:12Z akkad: I have some to bring up the version I'll commit. Asau said to not break it so I need to test it on all arches first 2015-03-04T02:30:43Z _Eris_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:30:52Z akkad: .oO(ohhh goodie, cvs) 2015-03-04T02:31:12Z akkad: joshe would you use a sbcl-current port if one was present? 2015-03-04T02:31:21Z joshe: no 2015-03-04T02:31:36Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2015-03-04T02:32:03Z joshe: I have recently set up buildbot with a bunch of VMs for testing sbcl 2015-03-04T02:32:50Z joshe: my only interest in sbcl on netbsd is that it builds and passes the test suite with the latest git commit, no patches 2015-03-04T02:33:08Z a2015_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:33:10Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:33:49Z akkad: oic 2015-03-04T02:36:19Z joshe: I currently do not have a spare ppc machine automated builds on netbsd, but may ne able to work something out for manual testing if needed 2015-03-04T02:36:33Z joshe: *for 2015-03-04T02:36:43Z harish joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:37:08Z akkad: I've got all the non-x86 hardware that is capable of running it 2015-03-04T02:37:14Z Jaskologist quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T02:37:36Z joshe: the platform table only lists ppc, what else is there? 2015-03-04T02:38:15Z joshe: I may be able to spare a sun4v vm or some mips or arm hardware 2015-03-04T02:38:55Z akkad: where are you located? 2015-03-04T02:39:05Z joshe: northwest US 2015-03-04T02:39:11Z akkad: ahh, SFBAY here 2015-03-04T02:39:27Z akkad: I'm trying to get some embedded hardware loaned from other local netbsd devs 2015-03-04T02:39:49Z theethicalegoist joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:39:56Z akkad: if freebsd threads are solid, it should not be too hard to get it working 2015-03-04T02:40:05Z joshe: I have some hardware which the other local openbsd dev doesn't want 2015-03-04T02:40:10Z joshe: like older, slower sparc64 2015-03-04T02:40:26Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T02:40:31Z meiji11 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:40:31Z akkad: http://linbsd.org/rack.png 2015-03-04T02:40:52Z joshe: impressive 2015-03-04T02:41:02Z akkad: yeah I got a lot of stuff since that pic from local sun devs who did netbsd work 2015-03-04T02:41:06Z akkad: heavy sobs 2015-03-04T02:41:20Z joshe: http://elsasser.org/misc/tower-2014-11-15.jpg 2015-03-04T02:41:24Z akkad: it's all slow shit 2015-03-04T02:41:39Z akkad: nice 2015-03-04T02:41:44Z joshe: I don't have a lot of sparc stuff, it's too slow 2015-03-04T02:42:05Z joshe: better to run it in a DC, and much better to run sun4v VMs instead 2015-03-04T02:42:21Z joshe: (openbsd can run as a sun4v control domain ;) 2015-03-04T02:43:23Z joshe: I sww you have a couple next pizza boxes 2015-03-04T02:43:41Z joshe: I just gave mine away 2015-03-04T02:44:28Z joshe: also, this is the way to do ppc: http://elsasser.org/misc/minis.png 2015-03-04T02:44:33Z akkad: yeah openbsd sunv support is nice 2015-03-04T02:44:37Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:44:45Z akkad: yeah no doubt 2015-03-04T02:44:53Z akkad: g4? 2015-03-04T02:44:57Z joshe: yea 2015-03-04T02:45:02Z akkad: I've got a lot of ibm ppc hardware 2015-03-04T02:45:15Z akkad: you sbcl dev? 2015-03-04T02:45:23Z joshe: they're normally very quiet but I can tell whenever someone commits to sbcl because the fans kick on 2015-03-04T02:45:29Z akkad: haha 2015-03-04T02:45:35Z joshe: technically sbcl and openbsd dev 2015-03-04T02:45:37Z akkad: power6 was horrible at that 2015-03-04T02:45:39Z akkad: nice 2015-03-04T02:45:53Z akkad: I worked with Todd@ and marco@ a bit on the openbsd port way back when 2015-03-04T02:45:59Z akkad: s/bsd/afs/g 2015-03-04T02:46:30Z akkad: Marco needs help on Bitrig now :P 2015-03-04T02:46:32Z nightshade427 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:46:43Z joshe: I've never used afs 2015-03-04T02:46:47Z dagnachewa quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-04T02:47:10Z akkad: it was horrible 2015-03-04T02:47:18Z akkad: some of the worse code ever. 2015-03-04T02:47:32Z akkad: ifdef help for portability. 2015-03-04T02:47:36Z joshe: worse than bsd nfs? 2015-03-04T02:47:44Z akkad: performance was ok. 2015-03-04T02:47:59Z akkad: yeah nqnfs was still better 2015-03-04T02:48:11Z akkad: joshe thanks for the idea of minis. 2015-03-04T02:48:21Z akkad: net support of mac has always been way behind openbsd 2015-03-04T02:48:31Z joshe: now is a good time to get them on craigslist or ebay 2015-03-04T02:48:36Z Longlius joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:48:40Z joshe: really? 2015-03-04T02:48:51Z joshe: I thought openbsd support of macs wasn't that good 2015-03-04T02:49:07Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T02:49:38Z akkad: trust me... when you leave that project over a fight for lkm support, you tend to regret the fact the new os you work on does not install well on macs. 2015-03-04T02:49:59Z joshe: nobody cares about macppc anymore, it's probably more dead than m88k, oddly enough 2015-03-04T02:50:11Z akkad: yeah... very good point to acquire them now 2015-03-04T02:50:18Z msv joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:50:28Z akkad: joshe how much you drop on one? 2015-03-04T02:50:52Z joshe: maybe $150 on craigslist, $100 on ebay? 2015-03-04T02:51:03Z joshe: of course craigslist prices are local 2015-03-04T02:51:21Z akkad: good point 2015-03-04T02:51:31Z akkad: should stack up on them 2015-03-04T02:51:58Z joshe: I think I got one on craigslist for $150, one for $125, and one on ebay without a power supply for maybe $50 2015-03-04T02:52:52Z joshe: (I had a flaky x86 mini that I gave to a local recycler without the psu but with a $10 donation) 2015-03-04T02:55:04Z Zhivago: I wonder how long it will take for things like rpi to overtake them in processing power. :) 2015-03-04T02:55:26Z emaczen: I know that you can specialize methods on classes, types, and symbols (via eql). Are these default capabilities exhaustive? 2015-03-04T02:55:40Z ynniv joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:56:04Z emaczen: Can you use (or symbol number)? 2015-03-04T02:56:10Z Zhivago: You can specialize on things that are comparable via eqp, such as numbers, characters, etc. 2015-03-04T02:56:16Z Zhivago: er, eql. 2015-03-04T02:56:22Z Zhivago: You cannot specialize on types. 2015-03-04T02:56:40Z Zhivago: (Which is what (or symbol number) would be) 2015-03-04T02:56:48Z frkout_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T02:57:41Z emaczen: According to PG you can do (defmethod combine ((x number) (y number)) ...) 2015-03-04T02:58:13Z emaczen: This is specializing on types right? 2015-03-04T02:58:27Z joshe: Zhivago: low-end arm boards can easily outperform quite a lot of older CPUs 2015-03-04T02:58:40Z Xach: emaczen: NUMBER is a class 2015-03-04T02:58:50Z joshe: but they can't beat them when it comes to reliability 2015-03-04T02:58:56Z emaczen: (type-of 1) 2015-03-04T02:58:58Z Xach: emaczen: and also a type. 2015-03-04T02:58:59Z emaczen: ,(type-of 1) 2015-03-04T02:58:59Z gko__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T02:59:26Z Xach: emaczen: all classes are types, but not vice versa. 2015-03-04T03:00:22Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-03-04T03:00:36Z emaczen: Xach: can you give me an example of a few types that are not classes? 2015-03-04T03:00:37Z axion quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0) 2015-03-04T03:01:01Z Xach: emaczen: (or symbol number) 2015-03-04T03:01:13Z Xach: emaczen: BIT 2015-03-04T03:02:33Z Xach: emaczen: unsigned-byte 2015-03-04T03:02:34Z Xach: etc 2015-03-04T03:03:55Z ynniv: t, nil, function, cons 2015-03-04T03:04:43Z Xach: ynniv: wrong, right, wrong, wrong 2015-03-04T03:05:12Z Xach: it's easy enough to check. just go to http://l1sp.org/cl/cons (or whichever) and look for "system class" 2015-03-04T03:05:13Z emaczen: How do you test if something is a macro? I thought macrop did it. 2015-03-04T03:05:30Z manuel__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T03:05:55Z theethicalegoist quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T03:06:37Z ynniv: Xach: (type-of (lambda ())) —> FUNCTION 2015-03-04T03:06:43Z Xach: emaczen: MACRO-FUNCTION is one way. 2015-03-04T03:07:34Z emaczen: thanks Xach 2015-03-04T03:07:43Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:07:43Z Xach: ynniv: see also (class-name (class-of (lambda ()))) 2015-03-04T03:07:52Z thail joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:07:54Z antgreen quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T03:08:05Z antgreen` joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:09:35Z emaczen: I though t was the superclass of everything? 2015-03-04T03:10:06Z ynniv: Xach: ok, but t nil and cons are built-ins and not system classes 2015-03-04T03:10:25Z Xach: ynniv: incorrect. t and cons are system classes. nil is not. 2015-03-04T03:10:57Z ynniv: sbcl says: (map 'list #'class-of (list t nil (lambda ()) (cons 1 2))) —> (# # 2015-03-04T03:10:57Z ynniv: # #) 2015-03-04T03:11:39Z ynniv: ccl says they’re all built in 2015-03-04T03:12:01Z Xach: Being a built-in-class does not mean they are not system classes. 2015-03-04T03:12:19Z ynniv: I’m lost then 2015-03-04T03:12:22Z Xach: system class n. a class that may be of type built-in-class in a conforming implementation and hence cannot be inherited by classes defined by conforming programs. 2015-03-04T03:13:07Z Xach: NIL names a type, one that has no members, the empty type. 2015-03-04T03:13:21Z Xach: the type of the object NIL is NULL, which is a system class. 2015-03-04T03:14:55Z Xach: The easiest way to check if a symbol names a system class is to look it up. Asking the implementation can get you into implementation details. I find that more confusiong, personally, but if you know the details I'm sure it's just as accurate. 2015-03-04T03:18:49Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T03:21:02Z theos joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:21:56Z beach joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:22:01Z ynniv: That’s the kind of technicality that’s been getting me with CL. 2015-03-04T03:22:13Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2015-03-04T03:24:09Z ynniv: I usually use an implementation to figure things out, but that doesn’t keep you in spec. 2015-03-04T03:25:13Z Brucio-92 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:25:19Z Brucio-92 is now known as beslyrus 2015-03-04T03:25:34Z ynniv: The CLHS is pretty complete, but the way it’s written can be difficult to unravel. It’s probably easier if you like math proofs. 2015-03-04T03:25:37Z aeth quit (Quit: rebooting) 2015-03-04T03:25:41Z Zhivago: I'd say 'which has a corresponding system class' rather than 'is'. 2015-03-04T03:26:29Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T03:27:06Z gklimowi_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:27:12Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T03:27:31Z beslyrus: evening 2015-03-04T03:27:44Z beach: Hello beslyrus. 2015-03-04T03:27:51Z beslyrus: howdy beach! 2015-03-04T03:28:25Z akkad: hi beach 2015-03-04T03:29:24Z beach: beslyrus: Will you be at ELS this year? 2015-03-04T03:30:06Z pillton: Good morning beach. 2015-03-04T03:30:17Z gklimowicz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T03:33:39Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:36:07Z aeth joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:37:17Z oleo: morning 2015-03-04T03:39:21Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:47:44Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:49:01Z taylanub quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-03-04T03:49:07Z taylanub joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:51:26Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:53:20Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-04T03:57:07Z gklimowi_ is now known as gklimowicz 2015-03-04T03:57:18Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-03-04T04:00:38Z capitaomorte quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net) 2015-03-04T04:00:38Z luis quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net) 2015-03-04T04:02:21Z beslyrus: beach: I hadn't been planning on it, but it would be fun. 2015-03-04T04:02:47Z Xach: yes 2015-03-04T04:02:51Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T04:03:06Z beach: beslyrus: Definitely. 2015-03-04T04:04:54Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-04T04:07:31Z beslyrus: oh wait, that's the European Leptospirosis Meeting. Probably more relevant for my job (and only vaguely so at that), but not what I was looking for. 2015-03-04T04:08:09Z beach: beslyrus: http://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/ 2015-03-04T04:08:22Z beslyrus: yeah, I found it, thanks! 2015-03-04T04:09:54Z beslyrus: how's SICL coming along beach? 2015-03-04T04:10:06Z beach: Quite well thank you. 2015-03-04T04:10:20Z beach: drmeister is using the "Cleavir" part of SICL for his new compiler. 2015-03-04T04:10:29Z beslyrus: drmeister: nice! 2015-03-04T04:10:58Z beach: Now I am working on inlining. 2015-03-04T04:11:03Z beslyrus: nothing like actual users! 2015-03-04T04:11:10Z beach: Yeah. 2015-03-04T04:11:13Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T04:12:20Z beach: The current idea is to do inlining at the AST level. So I need to be able to clone an AST. As it turns out, I already have the information required to do so, and I don't need to write a CLONE method for each AST class. 2015-03-04T04:13:00Z beach: And, yesterday I figured out that I can use the same information to create a program that, when run, will produce a copy of the AST. 2015-03-04T04:13:16Z aeth quit (Quit: reboot) 2015-03-04T04:13:23Z beach: This program, I can then stick in a FASL so that I can get inline information when loading the that FASL. 2015-03-04T04:16:02Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-04T04:16:17Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T04:18:45Z aeth joined #lisp 2015-03-04T04:18:46Z jrm: When I try to run (stumpwm::run-prog "usr/bin/ssh" :args '("-p" *port* "-x" "-o" "ConnectTimeout=1" (concatenate 'string *user* "@" *host*) (concatenate 'string "'ls " *path* " | wc -l'")) :output *standard-output* :wait t) I get the error "The value *PORT* is not of type SEQUENCE." *port* is (defvar *port* "22"). What should I be doing? 2015-03-04T04:19:39Z aeth quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-04T04:19:48Z beach: jrm: *port* is quoted. 2015-03-04T04:20:00Z beach: jrm: So it is not evaluated. 2015-03-04T04:20:20Z beach: Same thing for (concatenate ...) 2015-03-04T04:20:23Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv) 2015-03-04T04:20:28Z aeth joined #lisp 2015-03-04T04:21:51Z beach: jrm: I don't know what you want to do, but you might want to try using backquote, as in `("-p" ,*port* "-x" "-o" "ConnectTimeout=1" ,(concatenate 'string *user* "@" *host*) ...) 2015-03-04T04:22:24Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T04:23:08Z Zhivago: Alternately (list "-p" ...) 2015-03-04T04:25:09Z badkins quit 2015-03-04T04:26:24Z jrm: thanks guys :-) 2015-03-04T04:26:56Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T04:27:07Z Zhivago: Thanks guys are the best kind of guys. 2015-03-04T04:28:44Z fxer joined #lisp 2015-03-04T04:29:40Z drmeister: Hi beach. 2015-03-04T04:30:19Z beach: drmeister: How is the grant proposal going? 2015-03-04T04:30:19Z drmeister: The lambda-lists in the ENTER-INSTRUCTION Are they supposed to look like (x y &optional (z z-flag))? No space for the initializer? 2015-03-04T04:30:24Z drmeister: initform. 2015-03-04T04:30:30Z drmeister: It's going ok. 2015-03-04T04:31:21Z drmeister: I lined up a subcontract with a lab that can test our catalysts against live agents. That's good. 2015-03-04T04:31:27Z beach: drmeister: The initializer is computed by the HIR/MIR 2015-03-04T04:31:38Z kjeldahl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T04:31:47Z drmeister: Right - but you don't follow the format of an ordinary lambda list. 2015-03-04T04:31:56Z beach: I don't. 2015-03-04T04:32:03Z drmeister: What about &key? 2015-03-04T04:32:05Z kjeldahl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T04:32:23Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T04:32:29Z beach: drmeister: From memory: (keyword parameter supplied-p) 2015-03-04T04:32:30Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-04T04:32:38Z beach: It is in a comment in the file. 2015-03-04T04:32:41Z drmeister: I'm using my existing code to parse these lambda-lists - I got a little tripped up. 2015-03-04T04:33:07Z drmeister: Which file is that? 2015-03-04T04:33:14Z drmeister: Sorry to make you look. 2015-03-04T04:33:23Z beach: Hold on... 2015-03-04T04:33:23Z drmeister: Or just give me a lead and I'll find it. 2015-03-04T04:35:55Z shum quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T04:36:48Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-03-04T04:37:29Z beach: drmeister: Well, it is in a comment for the AST. 2015-03-04T04:37:52Z beach: The FUNCTION-AST and the ENTER-INSTRUCTION have the SHAPE same lambda list. 2015-03-04T04:38:34Z beach: drmeister: In compile-general-purpose-asts.lisp the AST lambda list is translated to a lambda list of the ENTER-INSTRUCTION. 2015-03-04T04:38:36Z {0}grant quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T04:39:13Z drmeister: Thank you. 2015-03-04T04:39:26Z beach: So I was right. Required: just a lexical; Optional: (var supplied-p), Key: (keyword var supplied-p) 2015-03-04T04:40:59Z beach: s/SHAPE same/same SHAPE/ 2015-03-04T04:41:20Z jrm: Beach, Zhivago: What I'm trying to do is run ssh host 'ls blah' and collect the output. I'm close, but the output is empty, when it should return a number. Do you have any ideas/suggestions? http://ftfl.ca/paste/run-ssh.html 2015-03-04T04:41:52Z tmch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T04:41:56Z drmeister: I need to split the lambda list up into reqs, opts, rest, key-flag, keys, allow-other-keys - do you have anything like that? 2015-03-04T04:42:04Z Zhivago: jrm: stdout or stderr? 2015-03-04T04:42:19Z jrm: Zhivago: stdout 2015-03-04T04:42:24Z beach: drmeister: cleavir-code-utilities:parse-...-lambda-list 2015-03-04T04:42:35Z beach: drmeister: Choose your favorite lambda list. 2015-03-04T04:42:51Z Zhivago: jrm: I'd run your program through strace to see what's actually going on -- maybe your command is failing due to not being run with a terminal available or something? 2015-03-04T04:42:57Z beach: drmeister: ordinary, macro, defgeneric, defmethod, ... 2015-03-04T04:43:04Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T04:43:11Z beach: drmeister: It turns it into a class instace. 2015-03-04T04:43:16Z beach: instance 2015-03-04T04:43:35Z drmeister: Got it - thank you. 2015-03-04T04:45:10Z emaczen: how can I use method specialization to do (defmethod foo ((bar ANYTHING) (bam (eql 1))) ... ) 2015-03-04T04:45:19Z emaczen: I am having trouble with the case where bar is a cons 2015-03-04T04:45:45Z beach: emaczen: Either just BAR or (BAR T) 2015-03-04T04:45:46Z emaczen: For ANYTHING, I have been using "t" 2015-03-04T04:46:05Z Zhivago: What does 'trouble' mean? :) 2015-03-04T04:46:22Z emaczen: one sec 2015-03-04T04:47:01Z oleo: eql specializers ? 2015-03-04T04:47:30Z emaczen: So, it looks like instead of using the (defmethod foo ((bar t) (bam (eql 1))) ...) method, it is using the (defmethod foo (bar bam) ...) method 2015-03-04T04:47:46Z emaczen: when I pass bar as a cons and bam eq to 1 2015-03-04T04:48:22Z beslyrus: jrm: are you sure you need those single quotes? 2015-03-04T04:48:38Z beach: emaczen: Then you are doing something wrong. 2015-03-04T04:48:55Z Zhivago: emaczen: Are you incrementally adding methods in the repl? 2015-03-04T04:49:18Z emaczen: Zhivago: can you clear all methods out of the REPL? 2015-03-04T04:49:48Z beach: emaczen: (fmakunbound 'foo) 2015-03-04T04:50:10Z beach: emaczen: Or use the SLIME inspector and click on "remove method" 2015-03-04T04:50:50Z emaczen: nope, still the same results 2015-03-04T04:51:23Z beach: emaczen: You need to paste the code. 2015-03-04T04:51:27Z Zhivago: emaczen: Ok, can you make a simple test case and paste it? 2015-03-04T04:51:38Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T04:51:54Z emaczen: I'll give it another careful readthrough and then paste 2015-03-04T04:52:10Z emaczen: It is a lot... 2015-03-04T04:52:30Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T04:52:35Z beach: emaczen: Condense it down to a minimum. 2015-03-04T04:53:04Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-03-04T04:56:14Z emaczen: I can ask a better question 2015-03-04T04:56:52Z emaczen: I'm passing a cons and a 1 2015-03-04T04:57:05Z jrm: Zhivago: After adding sh -c in front of the ssh command it works. Thanks 2015-03-04T04:57:06Z emaczen: The methods that are specializing have types 2015-03-04T04:57:26Z jrm: beslyrus: Yeah, that's require for the remote command to run. 2015-03-04T04:57:35Z emaczen: method1: t and (eql 1) 2015-03-04T04:57:43Z emaczen: method2: cons and t 2015-03-04T04:58:02Z emaczen: It is picking method2 over method1 2015-03-04T04:58:07Z emaczen: I wanted method1 2015-03-04T04:59:01Z emaczen: so cons and t is more specific than t and (eql 1) ? 2015-03-04T04:59:02Z jrm: ...but the reason I was messing around with this was to try :wait nil, but that's fail. I have a threaded version, but that makes the WM too sluggish. 2015-03-04T04:59:15Z f03lipe quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T04:59:28Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp 2015-03-04T04:59:46Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2015-03-04T04:59:50Z jrm: I think I'll have to run the ssh in a shell script and print the output for the lisp code to pick up. 2015-03-04T05:00:08Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:00:12Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T05:00:18Z mj-0_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:00:29Z beach: emaczen: You need to specify a different argument order in DEFGENERIC then. 2015-03-04T05:00:33Z beach: clhs defgeneric 2015-03-04T05:00:33Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defgen.htm 2015-03-04T05:01:19Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T05:01:26Z beach: emaczen: :argument-precedence-order bam bar 2015-03-04T05:01:51Z jrm: If a shell script runs at a certain interval and writes the number of remote messages available, what's a good way for the lisp code to pick that up? I could use a file, where the shell script overwrites the file each iteration, but there will certainly be race conditions (shell script writing at the same time lisp reading). Named pipe, socket? 2015-03-04T05:01:54Z cluck quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T05:03:01Z emaczen: beach: so (t, (eql 1)) and (cons, t) have equal precedence besides order? 2015-03-04T05:03:26Z Xach: jrm: reading from the standard output of the script is usually one easy option. 2015-03-04T05:03:28Z beach: They are both APPLICABLE. Then the order is chosen according to the argument precedence order. 2015-03-04T05:03:50Z emaczen: beach: Yep, cool 2015-03-04T05:05:13Z pyon quit (Quit: I'm sorry but... I don't have any interest in three-dimensional girls.) 2015-03-04T05:05:57Z pyon joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:06:16Z jrm: Xach: This is inside a StumpWM module, so I can't do blah.sh | blah.cl. 2015-03-04T05:07:16Z Xach: jrm: That is not what I was suggesting. 2015-03-04T05:08:08Z ynniv joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:08:19Z jrm: Xach: Oh? Do you have an example you can point me to? 2015-03-04T05:09:24Z Xach: jrm: I use run-program with :output to a string stream, then get that string with get-output-stream-string. 2015-03-04T05:09:33Z Xach: there are other options as well 2015-03-04T05:10:27Z Xach: e.g. :output :stream, then read from the stream returned by sb-ext:process-output 2015-03-04T05:10:39Z jrm: Xach: I'll try that. Thank you. 2015-03-04T05:11:33Z Xach: https://github.com/xach/commando/blob/master/commando.lisp#L57 has an example implementation 2015-03-04T05:13:18Z Xach has been using commando a lot lately 2015-03-04T05:13:49Z Oladon: Might be a silly question, but I can't find the answer... anyone happen to know where this "closure" function on line 389 comes from or what it does? https://github.com/skypher/weblocks/blob/da80959aa8cc095a18e5867f1376ce9aa88a2a75/contrib/nunb/examples/custom-login-doodles.lisp#L389 2015-03-04T05:14:06Z Oladon: (my guess is creates a closure, but I can't seem to /find/ the function anywhere) 2015-03-04T05:14:47Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T05:15:08Z Xach: Oladon: is render-link-proper a function? 2015-03-04T05:15:21Z Oladon: Xach: not that I can find either, but render-link is... 2015-03-04T05:15:49Z Oladon: It seems to be a case of someone uploading an incomplete example :/ 2015-03-04T05:16:40Z Xach: Oladon: that's what it looks like to me, too. render-link-proper is never defined anywhere in any *.lisp file. 2015-03-04T05:16:49Z Oladon: Nor in the entire project 2015-03-04T05:16:57Z Oladon: oh, you said any, not the :P 2015-03-04T05:17:01Z Oladon: Yeah 2015-03-04T05:17:15Z Oladon: Sigh... I can't seem to get what should be a simple thing to work 2015-03-04T05:18:31Z emaczen: thanks beach: It works really well now :D 2015-03-04T05:18:38Z emaczen: night all 2015-03-04T05:18:41Z emaczen quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-04T05:20:05Z Oladon: So I've got an initial page with a link that runs some other code -- that's all fine and good. However, after you get into that code, I can't seem to figure out how to get each piece to use the flow to continue after it does its thing (and gets the user input) 2015-03-04T05:20:23Z Oladon: Relevant code is here: http://pastebin.com/9H4zN7g3 2015-03-04T05:20:27Z Oladon: Anyone have any ideas? 2015-03-04T05:22:06Z Kanae joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:22:45Z Oladon: http://pastebin.com/x0WikkQy is another approach I've tried -- slightly more recent 2015-03-04T05:23:23Z Xach: weblocks is not a frequent topic of dicussion here, sorry. i wonder where people who use weblocks discuss it. 2015-03-04T05:23:43Z Oladon: There's a Google Groups, but so far no answers there either 2015-03-04T05:24:03Z Oladon: -s 2015-03-04T05:25:23Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv) 2015-03-04T05:26:00Z Oladon: The most frustrating part is that I'm sure it's just something I don't know; I don't think this is very complicated 2015-03-04T05:26:17Z f03lipe joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:27:23Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:27:29Z jasom: Oladon: I just came back; I used weblocks for a bit so I can take a look 2015-03-04T05:27:41Z Oladon: jasom: I'd be very much obliged. 2015-03-04T05:27:53Z Oladon: I've been poring over github for days now trying to figure this out 2015-03-04T05:29:50Z msv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T05:30:56Z karswell` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T05:31:52Z karswell` joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:33:57Z {0}grant joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:34:15Z jrm: Xach: small typo in the readme.txt for commando: The Commando library is a slim layer over SB-EXT:RUN-PROGRAM makes it.. -> The Commando library is a slim layer over SB-EXT:RUN-PROGRAM making it.. 2015-03-04T05:34:15Z jrm: 2015-03-04T05:36:10Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-03-04T05:36:38Z theos joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:36:41Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:37:31Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:38:11Z Xach: tusen tack 2015-03-04T05:40:48Z jasom: Oladon: I didn't use with-flow or do-widget in my application; fwiw, if I had to guess, I would guess that closure comes from cl-cont... let me check 2015-03-04T05:41:11Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:41:26Z Oladon: jasom: I thought I'd checked cl-cont, but maybe I missed it 2015-03-04T05:41:36Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T05:41:53Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T05:42:08Z jasom: It's not in there, you're right... 2015-03-04T05:42:25Z jasom: I'm checking some old versions of weblocks now; there's a fair amount of bitrot in some of the examples 2015-03-04T05:43:03Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:43:20Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:43:24Z Oladon: Thanks. It doesn't seem like it should be this complicated to just display a series of user inputs and then run continuations after each one... 2015-03-04T05:43:37Z Oladon: I've been feeling pretty dense for not being able to get it to work 2015-03-04T05:44:02Z jasom: I found it easier to have actions that update the widgets in the root container 2015-03-04T05:44:05Z cpc26_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T05:44:47Z Oladon: Maybe it'd be best if I tell you what I'm trying to do, and you can tell me I don't need flow or continuations :) 2015-03-04T05:45:48Z Oladon: I'm trying to write an interface to a game I wrote. The game code would be running on the backend, but require period input from the user. My thought was that continuations would be the way to go for that -- just run the back-end code, and when it needs input, generate a continuation and go on my way 2015-03-04T05:46:13Z jasom: That sounds good 2015-03-04T05:46:27Z jasom: you'll probably need the backend code in a with-call/cc or whatever 2015-03-04T05:46:51Z jasom: (with-flow implicitly adds one) 2015-03-04T05:46:59Z Oladon: Yeah, I was figuring something like that... but I can't even get a simple series of prompts to show up 2015-03-04T05:47:30Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T05:48:10Z jasom: Have you tried just a with-flow in the init-user-session? 2015-03-04T05:48:46Z Oladon: I've got one there currently... you mean just load all the code into that function? 2015-03-04T05:50:02Z jasom: Oladon: in the two samples you pasted, I didn't even see init-user-session? 2015-03-04T05:50:10Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-03-04T05:50:13Z Oladon: jasom: ah, must've forgotten to include it, sorry 2015-03-04T05:50:21Z Oladon: I'll add it, sec 2015-03-04T05:51:03Z Oladon: jasom: added to the bottom of http://pastebin.com/x0WikkQy -- though I'm pretty sure the with-flow there is completely redundant right now :) 2015-03-04T05:51:06Z Xaving joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:51:25Z Oladon: In the example they have it so that they can generate an initial page, and then a main page when you click through 2015-03-04T05:51:31Z Xaving: Ggz 2015-03-04T05:52:29Z jasom: Oladon: I don't think that's going to work... 2015-03-04T05:52:38Z Oladon: jasom: which part? 2015-03-04T05:54:24Z jasom: the part where you yield a function that will then yield other stuff 2015-03-04T05:54:27Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:54:28Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T05:54:29Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T05:54:44Z Oladon: Hmm, why not? make-main-page is never expected to answer, according to the comments 2015-03-04T05:54:49Z jasom: also if you want yield to cross function boundaries, you may need those functions to be defined with defun/cc 2015-03-04T05:55:34Z qlkzy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T05:55:42Z Oladon: Hrm 2015-03-04T05:55:46Z Xaving quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T05:56:14Z Oladon: I was figuring I could just nest them to achieve the desired result. Hrm. 2015-03-04T05:56:39Z jasom: read the docstring for do-widget (which yield is a thin wrapper around) 2015-03-04T05:56:40Z Oladon: (not nest them directly, just one per function that needs it) 2015-03-04T05:57:23Z Oladon nods 2015-03-04T05:57:43Z Oladon: "Resuming the computation" should include returning from the calling function, right? 2015-03-04T05:57:50Z Oladon: Or am I misunderstanding? 2015-03-04T05:58:10Z jasom: define "calling function" 2015-03-04T05:58:39Z beslyrus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T05:59:07Z Oladon: So... say foo calls bar, which calls do-widget. do-widget should swap the widgets, save the continuation, and then after callee answers, the continuation should run the rest of bar (post-do-widget) and then return to foo, right? 2015-03-04T05:59:08Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T05:59:43Z jasom: it exits the delimited computation, which is the inner-most with-call/cc IIRC 2015-03-04T05:59:58Z Oladon: ahh, hrm 2015-03-04T06:00:04Z jasom wishes they used shift/reset for names instead of the more confusing call/cc 2015-03-04T06:00:35Z zbigniew quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T06:01:05Z Oladon: Alright, that's given me some things to think about that will hopefully generate some new ideas for approaching this... thank you muchly. 2015-03-04T06:01:13Z gabriel_laddel left #lisp 2015-03-04T06:01:41Z jasom: np 2015-03-04T06:02:35Z jasom: If you want to keep it very simple, put the entire flow inside your init-user-session; just a sequence of widgets to render. It should be fairly compact, as you don't need to define the widgets there 2015-03-04T06:02:56Z jasom: and you can have conditionals as part of the flow 2015-03-04T06:06:00Z Oladon: I'll give that a shot... the main issue is that I can't predict beforehand what choices will need to be offered to the user 2015-03-04T06:06:07Z Oladon: (that's why I have the choice-list widget) 2015-03-04T06:08:22Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T06:09:51Z fugue quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-04T06:16:12Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:16:14Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-03-04T06:16:35Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:17:16Z jasom: It may be easier to just have actions then 2015-03-04T06:18:12Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-04T06:18:26Z jasom: have the action process the values and update the widget container that has your UI for the game (you can start just using the root-widget, but you'll probably want other stuff on the page) 2015-03-04T06:19:14Z jasom: It's probably not very weblocks-y since it's actually possible to understand the dataflow for that case ;) 2015-03-04T06:19:14Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:19:14Z pranavrc quit (Changing host) 2015-03-04T06:19:14Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:19:41Z stardiviner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T06:20:48Z kalzz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T06:22:02Z jasom: I spent a couple of weeks really digging into weblocks, and finally came to the conclusion that I could finish my application faster by not using weblocks vs using it, as I often had to tweak weblocks' behavior, and nothing ever seemed to work quite the way it was supposed to. e.g. I used a widget the way the docstring said, and it didn't work; I dug into the code, found the docstring was wrong, and there 2015-03-04T06:22:05Z jasom: weren't any tests at all for that widget *sigh* 2015-03-04T06:22:38Z devll joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:27:43Z Zhivago: It's pretty dead, isn't it? 2015-03-04T06:30:15Z kalzz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:31:30Z jasom: Zhivago: not quite 2015-03-04T06:32:05Z jasom: It's being used for at least a few sites, but almost entirely by active contributers to it 2015-03-04T06:33:01Z Xaving joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:33:04Z jackdaniel: jasom: were you doing pull requests with corrected docstrings? 2015-03-04T06:33:57Z Xaving quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-04T06:34:00Z jackdaniel uses tweaked nuclblog for his purposes 2015-03-04T06:34:35Z Xaving joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:37:21Z jasom: jackdaniel: no, I posted some questions about it to the google groups and never got any responses 2015-03-04T06:37:43Z jasom: A week or two later I left weblocks behind and haven't looked back 2015-03-04T06:38:20Z jackdaniel: jasom: that's a shame, but understandable 2015-03-04T06:38:57Z jackdaniel: nuclblog is rather for static content, but is intelligible and quite straight-forward 2015-03-04T06:42:42Z Xaving quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-03-04T06:44:40Z hvxgr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-04T06:45:36Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:49:47Z devll quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T06:50:47Z tajjada quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T06:51:18Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:52:20Z kalzz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T06:52:44Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:53:00Z Shinmera: So, I slept over it, and I've decided to attend ELS after all 2015-03-04T06:53:11Z jackdaniel: \o/ 2015-03-04T06:53:43Z Shinmera: Looking forward to meeting some of you good people! 2015-03-04T06:53:47Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:58:04Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:58:45Z kalzz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:58:48Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-04T06:59:31Z sbryant quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-03-04T07:01:52Z sshirokov quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T07:02:19Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T07:02:38Z meiji11 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T07:04:42Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:05:32Z fxer quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T07:07:27Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T07:07:35Z beach: Shinmera: Great! See you there! 2015-03-04T07:07:54Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T07:08:26Z beach: Shinmera: If you bring your copy of LiSP, you can probably get it signed both by the author and the translator. 2015-03-04T07:09:16Z axion joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:10:27Z Shinmera: I don't have a copy of that book (yet). 2015-03-04T07:10:29Z beach: I know the translator is going to be there. The author probably will too because he is on the program committee. 2015-03-04T07:10:48Z beach: Shinmera: This is a great opportunity to acquire it then. :) 2015-03-04T07:11:30Z Shinmera: Well, I'm not one of the people hyped about signatures, but thanks for the hint anyway. 2015-03-04T07:11:57Z jasom: beach may or may not personally be attached to the translator 2015-03-04T07:12:13Z beach: jasom: Now, what would make you say such a thing? 2015-03-04T07:13:15Z beach: Shinmera: I'll tell her to bring her favorite pen, just in case. 2015-03-04T07:13:26Z Cymew joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:13:51Z Shinmera: I /am/ hyped about pens though. 2015-03-04T07:14:09Z johann quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T07:14:15Z beach: Maybe she can just show her the pen, rather than signing the book, then. 2015-03-04T07:14:25Z beach: Maybe she can just show YOU the pen, rather than signing the book, then. 2015-03-04T07:14:44Z Shinmera: I think that can be agreed on. 2015-03-04T07:15:02Z beach: Anyway, great news! I look forward to seeing you. 2015-03-04T07:15:16Z Shinmera: Yes, same from my side! 2015-03-04T07:15:17Z zadock joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:15:25Z hvxgr joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:15:30Z beach: Anyway. Time to get to work! 2015-03-04T07:15:32Z beach left #lisp 2015-03-04T07:16:11Z mj-0_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T07:16:11Z Cymew quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T07:17:14Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:17:19Z dlowe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net) 2015-03-04T07:20:03Z johann joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:20:13Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-04T07:23:56Z sshirokov joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:25:02Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:26:00Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:26:39Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:31:15Z sol__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:32:22Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-04T07:33:43Z jasom: minion: memo for eudoxia: https://github.com/jasom/parenscriptx 2015-03-04T07:33:43Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell eudoxia when he/she/it next speaks. 2015-03-04T07:34:56Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T07:35:06Z xificurC joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:35:27Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:37:34Z emma joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:38:40Z sol__ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-04T07:39:01Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2015-03-04T07:41:02Z dlowe joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:42:28Z mj-0_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:42:28Z mj-0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T07:43:03Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:43:03Z mj-0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T07:44:48Z Beetny joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:45:35Z mj-0_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:45:35Z mj-0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T07:46:01Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T07:46:12Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:47:17Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:47:48Z sol__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:49:39Z mj-0_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T07:49:44Z J_4096 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:49:45Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:49:53Z ehu joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:53:45Z a2015_ quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-03-04T07:54:02Z sol__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T07:54:20Z a2015_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T07:54:28Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T07:56:59Z johann quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T08:00:53Z pranavrc quit 2015-03-04T08:01:17Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:01:17Z pranavrc quit (Changing host) 2015-03-04T08:01:17Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:04:06Z ggole joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:07:01Z larion quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T08:09:29Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:10:39Z Cymew joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:11:36Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:13:44Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:15:52Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T08:16:28Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:16:31Z scymtym_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:18:35Z sol__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:18:58Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T08:19:55Z selat joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:21:46Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:21:59Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T08:28:31Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-03-04T08:29:32Z sol__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T08:30:12Z splittist: drmeister: I would caution against arriving for ELS on the Monday morning. Quite apart from the jet lag issue (and perhaps you are immune to such things), there are too many points of failure to getting from LHR at a scheduled landing of 6:30am to Goldsmiths at any time before lunch. 2015-03-04T08:31:48Z splittist: drmeister: Experience has taught me that expecting to make any appointment before mid-afternoon when arriving in London that morning is fraught with risk. LHR is so close to capacity that any tiny disruption soon becomes a major issue - although admittedly you'll be in a big plane coming from far away, so you'll probably get to land at some point. 2015-03-04T08:32:53Z splittist: drmeister: Then there is immigration. Not having an EU/EEA passport (I assume) you'll be detained under the Prevention of Tourism Act; this can be relatively quick, or can take (literally) hours. 2015-03-04T08:33:50Z zhangyh26258 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:33:56Z antoszka: Good, old Kingdom… 2015-03-04T08:33:59Z zhangyh26258 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T08:34:54Z splittist: drmeister: Finally, there is the public transport system. I much prefer the tube to cabs in London, but the fact is they are not the most reliable things (age and capacity again), and a 'passenger incident' in some obscure far-flung borough can disrupt the whole thing for hours at a time. Also, interchanges are not necessarily terribly easy if you have a big 2015-03-04T08:34:54Z splittist: suitcase, so travel light. 2015-03-04T08:34:57Z nuy_19031046 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:37:15Z stepnem joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:38:20Z nuy_19031046 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T08:38:29Z nuy_19031046 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:39:40Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T08:40:23Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T08:41:26Z nuy_19031046 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T08:42:13Z nuy_19031046 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:45:14Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:45:20Z nuy_19031046 quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-04T08:47:02Z arenz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:48:02Z nuy_19031046 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:51:56Z {0}grant quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T08:54:35Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:54:59Z Shinmera: splittist: just fyi your last message got cut off at "easy if you have a big" 2015-03-04T08:55:06Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T08:55:16Z Harag1 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:55:43Z Shinmera: That so many IRC clients don't properly split messages is saddening. 2015-03-04T08:57:11Z Quadrescence: Shinmera, his message continued 2015-03-04T08:57:18Z Quadrescence: "big ... suitcase, so travel light" 2015-03-04T08:57:25Z Shinmera: drmeister: Additionally to what splittist said: if you /don't/ take the tube, the buses in London are well known for regularly being very late or missing entirely. 2015-03-04T08:57:34Z Shinmera: Quadrescence: Oh, I somehow skipped over that in the logs 2015-03-04T08:57:47Z Shinmera: Probably because it appears in the wrong order there 2015-03-04T08:57:49Z Shinmera: Bah. 2015-03-04T08:57:51Z johann joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:57:51Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-03-04T08:57:53Z Shinmera: My fault then 2015-03-04T09:02:22Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:02:38Z Alfr joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:03:25Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:06:46Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:06:52Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:09:25Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:10:32Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:11:33Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:13:51Z Harag1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:14:01Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:15:22Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:17:06Z zyaku joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:17:44Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:18:48Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:19:58Z ps joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:20:10Z devll joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:21:56Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:22:58Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:23:50Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T09:23:52Z larion joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:24:20Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:24:58Z faheem_: splittist: Prevention of Tourism Act? 2015-03-04T09:24:58Z faheem_: I'm guessing that's a joke. 2015-03-04T09:26:22Z ps left #lisp 2015-03-04T09:28:18Z selat quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-03-04T09:28:28Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:30:35Z Niac_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T09:30:37Z kons joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:31:15Z ggole joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:38:04Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:41:58Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T09:44:35Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-04T09:46:20Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:46:26Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight) 2015-03-04T09:46:34Z shrdlu68 left #lisp 2015-03-04T09:49:33Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:50:23Z gabriel_laddel quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:50:28Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:50:44Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:54:45Z luisxu404 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T09:54:52Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T09:58:19Z fierydiarreha quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T09:58:26Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:58:34Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T09:58:37Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T10:00:54Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:02:40Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:03:38Z backupthrick quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T10:04:04Z backupthrick joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:06:03Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T10:06:59Z jackdaniel witnessed aberration - do inside loop 2015-03-04T10:07:17Z jackdaniel: oh, nvm, it's ordinary do 2015-03-04T10:07:24Z jackdaniel: i mean loop -part 2015-03-04T10:07:33Z radioninja joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:08:15Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:08:53Z zyaku quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-04T10:11:32Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T10:12:16Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:15:28Z adlai reminds self to (loop :for subform :in loop-form :if (loop-keyword-p subform loop-form) :collect (intern (string subform) :keyword) :else :collect loop-form) 2015-03-04T10:15:33Z rszeno joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:15:36Z J_4096 quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-03-04T10:15:38Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:15:43Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T10:17:58Z jackdaniel: how does one refer to macro? 'symbol #'function ?macro 2015-03-04T10:18:10Z jackdaniel: just curious 2015-03-04T10:18:11Z Shinmera: Why do you want to? 2015-03-04T10:18:16Z jackdaniel: ↑ 2015-03-04T10:18:25Z Shinmera: clhs macro-function 2015-03-04T10:18:25Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_macro_.htm 2015-03-04T10:18:54Z Shinmera: Unless that's not what you mean by "refer to macro" 2015-03-04T10:19:29Z jackdaniel: hm, i meant macro quotation, but i guess there isn't equivalent for them 2015-03-04T10:19:35Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T10:20:57Z adlai: backquote? the backquote read-macro does not have a standardized return value, only the evaluation effect of its return value is specified 2015-03-04T10:25:17Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-04T10:28:23Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-04T10:31:48Z arenz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:32:14Z nuy_19031046 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T10:32:14Z sz0` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T10:32:20Z rszeno quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T10:32:51Z hvxgr quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T10:33:05Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:34:34Z paroneayea quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T10:35:07Z paroneayea joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:37:14Z Shinmera: jackdaniel: there's no point in passing around macros, so there's no need for a reader macro to do it. 2015-03-04T10:39:01Z jackdaniel: Shinmera: that sounds reasonable 2015-03-04T10:39:16Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:39:25Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T10:39:32Z Shinmera: Hence also why I asked "why". Usually when people want to functionally handle macros, there's something bad going on. 2015-03-04T10:40:21Z hvxgr joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:40:23Z jackdaniel: as i said, plain curiosity, poked my head and asked it instantly 2015-03-04T10:40:41Z rszeno joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:40:59Z Shinmera: Curiosity is fine. 2015-03-04T10:41:02Z Baggers joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:41:53Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:42:37Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T10:43:33Z paradoja joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:44:17Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:47:06Z harish_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:51:24Z rick-monster joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:54:51Z arenz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T10:56:48Z Shinmera quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T11:05:39Z nugalo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:06:13Z nugalo quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-04T11:07:49Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:08:42Z enaden joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:11:09Z splittist: faheem_: Yes, a joke. 2015-03-04T11:13:14Z paradoja quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T11:13:16Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:15:58Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:20:45Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T11:22:05Z enaden: Zach Beane mentions in this thread (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/oSslA8mJdho) that CL-PPCRE performs run-time compilation without using COMPILE or COMPILE-FILE. What did he mean by that? 2015-03-04T11:22:05Z ktt9`` joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:23:08Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:24:37Z enaden: Is it a matter of compiled functions produce compiled functions too in common lisp? 2015-03-04T11:25:00Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:25:05Z ktt9` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T11:25:25Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-04T11:27:02Z jdz: no, i think it is about all closures being compiled 2015-03-04T11:27:24Z jdz: and the technique is about chaining closures, not creating ones on the fly 2015-03-04T11:28:14Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T11:28:20Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:28:31Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:31:49Z stardiviner quit (Quit: Weird in coding now, or make love, only two things push me away from IRC.) 2015-03-04T11:32:05Z smokeink_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:32:16Z enaden: pardon my ignorance, I'm familiar with closures but I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the term chaining closures... Does it mean closures inside closures? 2015-03-04T11:33:14Z jdz: well, it's just one closure calling another one 2015-03-04T11:34:41Z jdz: for instance, if you are "compiling" an IF expression in your DSL, you would (among other things) generate two closures: one for the consequent branch, one for the alternate. at run time, depending on the test, one of them would be called 2015-03-04T11:34:58Z jdz: but in both cases, the closures would be known at compile time 2015-03-04T11:36:26Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T11:37:51Z paradoja joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:38:06Z smokeink_ is now known as smokeink 2015-03-04T11:38:30Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:38:42Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-04T11:39:30Z enaden: hmm. so in the case of CL-PPCRE, I'm imagining that it generates closures depending on the expression, and it calls that against the target string. And the regex closure is like a state machine where each state is a closure? 2015-03-04T11:42:43Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T11:43:37Z dmiles_akf quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T11:46:11Z Shinmera: Keeping states with closures is simple. Consider: (let ((a 0) (closure)) (setf closure (lambda () (print (incf a)) closure))) 2015-03-04T11:46:32Z Shinmera: You can now keep on calling (funcall *) and it'll increment the closed over variable. 2015-03-04T11:47:20Z Shinmera: Calling the first form again will give you a new closure that closes over a new binding and thus counts anew. 2015-03-04T11:47:50Z zyaku joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:49:25Z splittist: enaden: the weaving together at run time is a bit more subtle than that, I think. The cl-ppcre source is copiously commented and I suspect you would enjoy browsing it. 2015-03-04T11:49:35Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T11:51:36Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:51:43Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T11:51:53Z enaden: splittist: Yeah, I do want to dive in, but I'm still an amateur in exploring lisp code bases. I just don't know which sources I should look at first as point of entry into the library. 2015-03-04T11:52:20Z enaden: are there general tips for that? 2015-03-04T11:52:28Z Shinmera: enaden: Just M-. around. Start with cl-ppcre:create-scanner, I guess. 2015-03-04T11:52:41Z Shinmera: Since that's the entry point for creating the machinery. 2015-03-04T11:52:56Z Shinmera: But different people like different ways of learning and reading code 2015-03-04T11:53:01Z zyaku quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T11:53:12Z enaden: Ok, thanks for the direction though! :) 2015-03-04T11:53:48Z Shinmera: Starting with documentation is usually the best choice, if such is available. 2015-03-04T11:54:04Z splittist: I think Xach has said he actually printed the cl-ppcre sources out and browsed like that. (I quite like using hardcopy, too. But I'm like that.) 2015-03-04T11:54:27Z Shinmera: I like just jumping and scrolling through files, piecing it together in my head little by little. 2015-03-04T11:55:06Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:56:47Z enaden: Yeah, I'll probably go with the jumping around files approach. But maybe Xach's approach is worth exploring. 2015-03-04T11:58:16Z enaden: Anywaym thanks jdx, Shinmera and splittist 2015-03-04T11:58:20Z splittist: enaden: the .asd file will show you in which order the compiler wants to see things, which will be maximally bottom up. 2015-03-04T11:59:17Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp 2015-03-04T11:59:54Z enaden: splittist: you mean the components key in the defsystem is ordered? 2015-03-04T12:02:01Z johann joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:02:02Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:02:18Z splittist: enaden: yes, because of the :serial t 2015-03-04T12:03:02Z enaden: ah. okay. thanks! 2015-03-04T12:04:01Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T12:04:15Z gabriel_laddel left #lisp 2015-03-04T12:07:05Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:07:14Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T12:08:01Z Jaskologist joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:08:20Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:08:57Z segmond quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-03-04T12:11:44Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:12:00Z selat joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:21:57Z sz0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:23:04Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-04T12:25:48Z jackdaniel: 55312 2015-03-04T12:26:02Z jackdaniel: sorry 2015-03-04T12:26:08Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:26:26Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:27:10Z pranavrc_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:28:38Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T12:29:18Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:29:31Z pranavrc quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T12:29:49Z devll quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T12:30:03Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:32:32Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-04T12:34:59Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T12:37:49Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2015-03-04T12:40:14Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T12:43:19Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:48:32Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:50:09Z antgreen` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T12:50:48Z harish_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:52:17Z kons quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T12:52:39Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:52:49Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T12:53:38Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:53:43Z enaden quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T12:54:27Z harish_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-03-04T12:54:57Z harish_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T12:58:56Z Xach: I'm told I was the first registrant for ELS yesterday. hooray for me! 2015-03-04T12:59:06Z jackdaniel: congratz (: 2015-03-04T12:59:33Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:00:32Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-03-04T13:00:45Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:06:21Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T13:08:18Z splittist: I guess Xof and the rest can unveil the practical joke, now that Xach's fallen for it. 2015-03-04T13:08:43Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-04T13:11:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:11:21Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2015-03-04T13:11:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:12:38Z ktt9`` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T13:14:31Z rhllor joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:15:20Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:15:50Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T13:16:00Z pranavrc_ quit 2015-03-04T13:16:29Z sol__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:17:51Z Xof: everyone else needs to register too 2015-03-04T13:18:29Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:18:34Z Xof: then I will reveal that it is in fact a sinister plot 2015-03-04T13:18:37Z Xof: to make everyone left-handed 2015-03-04T13:18:43Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-04T13:20:46Z Shinmera: Phew, I guess I'm safe then. 2015-03-04T13:23:51Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:25:27Z johann joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:25:49Z splittist: more gauche than sinister, if that's the plot 2015-03-04T13:26:40Z qubitnerd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T13:28:36Z splittist can find no obvious links to izquierda ): 2015-03-04T13:29:04Z rhllor quit (Quit: rhllor) 2015-03-04T13:30:37Z kobain joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:32:26Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T13:44:27Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T13:44:49Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW) 2015-03-04T13:46:00Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T13:51:16Z salva quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-04T13:58:49Z pjb: - 2015-03-04T13:59:33Z karswell` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T14:03:55Z LiamH joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:04:59Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T14:06:28Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T14:10:08Z ryankarason quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T14:10:18Z xan_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:13:59Z Belias joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:19:04Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:20:30Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:20:36Z jlongster joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:22:24Z spacebat quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-03-04T14:23:11Z spacebat joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:29:59Z PaleFire joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:30:14Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:32:49Z someone quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T14:33:21Z girrig quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T14:34:17Z PaleFire quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T14:34:58Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-04T14:35:24Z salva joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:37:36Z Jubb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T14:37:54Z p_l is now known as runit 2015-03-04T14:39:22Z runit is now known as yum 2015-03-04T14:39:56Z yum is now known as rpm 2015-03-04T14:40:02Z rpm is now known as runit 2015-03-04T14:40:10Z runit is now known as p_l 2015-03-04T14:40:15Z cluck joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:42:10Z antgreen joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:45:56Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:45:56Z oleo quit (Changing host) 2015-03-04T14:45:56Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:46:35Z malkomal_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:46:52Z malkomal_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T14:47:05Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:49:26Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:50:24Z malkomal_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:50:28Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T14:50:59Z p_l is now known as PEI 2015-03-04T14:51:46Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T14:51:50Z PEI is now known as p_l 2015-03-04T14:53:33Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:55:27Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T14:57:10Z johann quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T14:57:26Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:00:16Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T15:00:49Z spacebat quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 2015-03-04T15:03:34Z cmatei joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:04:07Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:05:51Z gklimowicz quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-04T15:07:19Z hellofunk joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:07:45Z zyaku joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:11:13Z bcoburn_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:11:26Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:16:38Z djinni` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:18:25Z zyaku quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:20:44Z faheem_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-03-04T15:22:21Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:22:28Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:22:47Z JJaskologist joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:22:48Z thail: what is ELS 2015-03-04T15:24:04Z malkomal_ quit 2015-03-04T15:24:33Z yCrazyEdd joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:24:47Z CrazyEddy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T15:24:47Z yCrazyEdd is now known as CrazyEddy 2015-03-04T15:24:52Z bcoburn_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:25:14Z antoszka: thail: European Lisp Meeting 2015-03-04T15:25:21Z antoszka: Err.. Symposium :) 2015-03-04T15:25:37Z luisxu404 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:26:08Z ahungry_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:26:13Z thail: what country does it take placew? 2015-03-04T15:26:15Z jmignault joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:26:15Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:26:28Z oleo: different 2015-03-04T15:26:29Z djinni` joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:26:30Z Jaskologist quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:26:35Z oleo: every year different 2015-03-04T15:26:40Z thail: this year? 2015-03-04T15:26:50Z antoszka: thail: http://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/ <-- see this 2015-03-04T15:26:53Z oleo: erm you can read that via some rss feed 2015-03-04T15:27:01Z oleo: to planet-lisp.org or so 2015-03-04T15:27:08Z oleo: aah 2015-03-04T15:27:10Z thail: thanks 2015-03-04T15:27:16Z oleo: there is a direct weblink too ok 2015-03-04T15:27:46Z Shinmera: Just booked my flight and hotel. My bank account is hurting. 2015-03-04T15:28:01Z oleo: lol 2015-03-04T15:28:09Z d4ryus___ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:28:13Z splittist: Shinmera: where did you end up staying? 2015-03-04T15:28:32Z Shinmera: At the Mercure Hotel 2015-03-04T15:29:03Z Shinmera: Couldn't find anything visibly cheaper that didn't also require me to travel annoying lengths to get to the University. 2015-03-04T15:29:22Z antoszka: Shinmera: which airport are you flying into? 2015-03-04T15:29:30Z thail: a live within driving distance I might check it out 2015-03-04T15:29:44Z Shinmera: antoszka: Luton 2015-03-04T15:29:46Z splittist: Greenwich? 2015-03-04T15:30:05Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:30:20Z antoszka: Shinmera: is there some useful public transport to get you from Luton to the Symposium whereabouts? 2015-03-04T15:30:30Z antoszka: I'm seeing some cheap flights into Luton too 2015-03-04T15:30:40Z Belias: London is very well-connected. 2015-03-04T15:30:52Z Belias: So once you get there, you'll be able to get to the symposium pretty quickly. 2015-03-04T15:31:00Z Shinmera: Colleen: do google distance London-Luton Goldsmiths-University 2015-03-04T15:31:00Z Colleen: [London-Luton → Goldsmiths-University][#0] Duration: 1 hour 1 min Distance: 59.1 km 2015-03-04T15:31:25Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:31:44Z Shinmera: That's by car though, I think by PT it takes longer if you arrive at a bad time. 2015-03-04T15:32:10Z Belias: London is perpetually a 'bad time' 2015-03-04T15:32:10Z jdz: when i travel through Luton, i take the coach service to Baker Street, and then bus 453 which goes to Deptford Bridge (near Travelodge hotel) 2015-03-04T15:32:19Z Belias: If you go by car, the roads are pretty terrible. 2015-03-04T15:33:26Z thail: this is london 2015-03-04T15:33:37Z thail: you can tube/train anywhere in the center 2015-03-04T15:33:45Z Belias: Mhm, exactly. 2015-03-04T15:34:00Z thail: about an hour from paddington it seems 2015-03-04T15:34:52Z splittist: jdz: good to know, thanks. 2015-03-04T15:35:16Z Shinmera: Maybe I should extend Colleen's map searching capabilities to allow complex routes. 2015-03-04T15:36:52Z josemanuel joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:37:49Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T15:38:00Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:40:18Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T15:40:37Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:42:04Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:43:19Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:44:22Z ASau` joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:44:44Z arrsim quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T15:46:47Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T15:47:11Z Baggers joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:48:02Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:48:40Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:52:23Z Brucio-92 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:52:31Z Brucio-92 is now known as beslyrus 2015-03-04T15:52:44Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T15:53:03Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T15:56:22Z jdz: splittist: the 453 bus takes around 50 minutes (at least when there is not much traffic) and the route includes Regent Street and Westminster Bridger. Too bad there's nothing much to see after the bridge is crossed :) 2015-03-04T15:57:01Z JJJJJJJJJJ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:57:12Z tharugrim joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:57:31Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T15:57:34Z Harag1 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:58:40Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T15:59:03Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T15:59:31Z splittist: jdz: my memories of Luton are dominated by arriving on a much delayed EasyJet after everything had left for the evening and having to catch a series of increasingly unpleasant Night Buses to get home to Earls Court. And, yes, it was uphill both ways. (: 2015-03-04T15:59:44Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T16:00:39Z JJaskologist quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:00:40Z a2015_ quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-03-04T16:01:15Z splittist wondered who Bodil Stokke was; found she is ubiquitous 2015-03-04T16:01:43Z H4ns: she does presentations with ponies. 2015-03-04T16:02:37Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:03:04Z splittist: I'm watching one. She's just said "Common Lispers are scary people", so she knows of what she speaks (: 2015-03-04T16:03:16Z xrash joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:04:58Z rick-monster: leaving london for a lisp job in canada just before the conference - shame I would've loved to see the ponies 2015-03-04T16:05:29Z jdz: which lisp job in canada? 2015-03-04T16:07:23Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:07:48Z johann joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:08:30Z Shinmera: splittist: Which one is that? 2015-03-04T16:09:48Z rick-monster: jdz with ess technology in kelowna 2015-03-04T16:10:05Z jdz: nice 2015-03-04T16:11:10Z H4ns: indeed! http://www.esstech.com/pdf/LISP_Programmer.pdf 2015-03-04T16:11:11Z splittist: Shinmera: Functional programming on the FooCafe (?) channel... Hell, here's the url: http://youtu.be/DHubfS8E--o 2015-03-04T16:11:22Z Shinmera: Thanks! 2015-03-04T16:12:26Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:16:16Z larion quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:16:43Z jdz: rick-monster: pass regards to Martin from me (i had an unfinished/failed communication with the company last August, but there was an agent involved and it somehow did not work out) 2015-03-04T16:18:36Z rick-monster: will do! 2015-03-04T16:18:44Z smokeink quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T16:19:40Z jdz: rick-monster: oh, and good luck on your job 2015-03-04T16:19:58Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:20:36Z jdz: well, not good luck, just enjoy (they're doing real cool stuff) 2015-03-04T16:21:12Z rick-monster: jdz thanks a lot 2015-03-04T16:21:36Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:22:34Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:22:45Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:22:52Z gklimowicz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:24:44Z gklimowicz quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-04T16:26:47Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:29:57Z sunwukong joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:33:36Z ruste quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T16:34:55Z sunwukong quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T16:37:54Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-04T16:40:27Z sunwukong joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:43:19Z antgreen quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T16:44:08Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:49:16Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:49:21Z adlai joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:49:43Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:50:22Z JJaskologist joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:52:46Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:52:56Z jrm: I'm attempting to make a call to call-with-command-stream from Xach's commando library: https://github.com/xach/commando/blob/master/commando.lisp#L57. I'm not clear on the syntax for the fun argument. How do I supply that argument? 2015-03-04T16:53:17Z Jaskologist joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:53:36Z JJJJJJJJJJ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:53:44Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:54:02Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:54:04Z JJJJJJJJJJ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:55:21Z JJaskologist quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:55:21Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-04T16:55:33Z trigen quit (Excess Flood) 2015-03-04T16:55:55Z trigen joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:57:04Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:57:20Z dim: nice lib ;-) I might use it in pgloader 2015-03-04T16:57:32Z dim: Xach: do you intend to add uiop or ccl support? ;-) 2015-03-04T16:57:46Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW) 2015-03-04T16:57:55Z Jaskologist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T16:57:58Z splittist: jrm: in a form that can be funcalled - is that what you mean? 2015-03-04T16:58:00Z scarygelatin joined #lisp 2015-03-04T16:58:17Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:00:03Z jrm: splittist: I just did (defun read-mail (mail-stream) (print (read-line mail-stream))) and (call-with-command-stream "read-mail" "ml_mail.sh"). I'm new to lisp, please be gentle. :) 2015-03-04T17:00:40Z Bike: do #'read-mail, not "read-mail" 2015-03-04T17:00:49Z splittist: What Bike said. 2015-03-04T17:00:50Z Bike: "read-mail" is a string, lisp has an actual type for functions 2015-03-04T17:01:53Z jrm: thanks 2015-03-04T17:03:33Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T17:04:39Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:05:00Z fxer joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:07:00Z przl_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:08:24Z drmeister: splittist: Thanks for the heads up on travel to London. 2015-03-04T17:08:34Z drmeister: I just booked my flight to arrive Sunday night. 2015-03-04T17:08:45Z rpg joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:10:07Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-03-04T17:10:12Z drmeister: I was going to book into the Travel lodge - any advice there? 2015-03-04T17:10:28Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:10:37Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:11:31Z przl_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:12:48Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-04T17:12:48Z ruste joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:14:35Z jrm: Any thoughts on why there is a fun argument? Why not just return the stream? I'm struggling to figure out how to simply get the output. 2015-03-04T17:17:28Z Bike: because it handles closing the stream and such. 2015-03-04T17:17:41Z Bike: you might want to use with-command-stream instead, it's a little wrapper. 2015-03-04T17:18:34Z decent quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:18:41Z Bike: or just with-run-output if you don't care about getting output while the program is running. 2015-03-04T17:21:53Z Shinmera: drmeister: From the reviews I read the Mercure seems to have less negatives / better average reviews. 2015-03-04T17:22:27Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:24:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:24:27Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:26:11Z Xach: dim: if someone contributed support for other lisps, and the code was good, i'd add it 2015-03-04T17:29:11Z drmeister: Shinmera: With that ringing endorsement I'm checking out the Mercure. It's about a 15 minute walk from the Mercure to the site - is that correct? 2015-03-04T17:30:56Z Shinmera: Colleen: do google distance Catherine-Grove-Greenwich Goldsmiths-University walking 2015-03-04T17:30:56Z Colleen: [Catherine-Grove-Greenwich → Goldsmiths-University][#0] Duration: 17 mins Distance: 1.3 km 2015-03-04T17:30:59Z Shinmera: apparently so. 2015-03-04T17:31:57Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:34:06Z drmeister: Does Colleen have a sister? 2015-03-04T17:34:18Z Shinmera: Not that I'm aware of. 2015-03-04T17:35:16Z drmeister: Shame 2015-03-04T17:35:37Z Shinmera: You can make one, once you get Clasp far enough to run the framework ;) 2015-03-04T17:38:22Z drmeister: I really shouldn't - we must always remember the safety video: https://vimeo.com/12915013 2015-03-04T17:38:37Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:39:50Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-04T17:40:09Z GuilOooo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:40:21Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T17:40:46Z Shinmera: You're already working on a CL implementation. There's no turning back now! 2015-03-04T17:41:15Z a2015_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:41:59Z GuilOooo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:42:52Z drmeister: That's why I always wear condoms on my fingers when I type. I saw "Electro-gonorreah - the Noisy Killer!" 2015-03-04T17:44:02Z Shinmera: Maybe that's why C++ has such a funny syntax. People can't type right. 2015-03-04T17:44:52Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:45:25Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:49:51Z jasom: whoa, Xach is working on commando again? 2015-03-04T17:50:02Z drmeister: I used Google street view to walk the directions between the hotel and the site - I keep getting hit by cars driving in the wrong damn lane. 2015-03-04T17:50:58Z drmeister: But it looks like it will work. 2015-03-04T17:51:23Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:51:29Z GuilOooo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:51:36Z Shinmera: You'll survive. 2015-03-04T17:51:36Z GuilOooo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:51:59Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:52:11Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:52:54Z srcerer quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]) 2015-03-04T17:53:20Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2015-03-04T17:53:30Z drmeister: I'm working on &OPTIONAL arguments for Cleavir/Clasp generated code. Once I have that &KEY arguments should be easy. 2015-03-04T17:53:54Z splittist: Just don't be a playwright in the wrong pub 2015-03-04T17:54:52Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T17:58:57Z jasom: Anyone here use evil and paredit? 2015-03-04T18:02:16Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T18:02:50Z kraison quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-04T18:03:05Z kraison joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:03:12Z oleo_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:03:20Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Quit: My legs are OK) 2015-03-04T18:05:55Z drmeister: It will be quite a walk to find a pub that celebrates compiler writers. We usually drink alone... under bridges. 2015-03-04T18:06:02Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:06:58Z drmeister reflects that that was a lot sadder than the tone he wanted to play. 2015-03-04T18:08:34Z splittist: drmeister: here, presumably http://www.davy.co.uk/mughouse 2015-03-04T18:08:56Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:09:15Z splittist: drmeister: more lispily, I'm impressed at your stamina in pushing Cleavir/Clasp forward 2015-03-04T18:10:00Z Vivitron` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:11:33Z srcerer joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:12:36Z kraison quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-04T18:12:55Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:14:21Z Oddity quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:14:44Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:18:18Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:19:44Z ggole quit 2015-03-04T18:23:31Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T18:24:14Z ryankarason joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:30:04Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:30:08Z ryankarason is now known as rak[1] 2015-03-04T18:32:11Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:34:28Z beslyrus quit (Quit: Client Quit) 2015-03-04T18:34:37Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:36:13Z beslyrus joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:36:16Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:38:41Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:39:20Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:40:01Z mrSpec quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:41:01Z gko__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-03-04T18:44:30Z sol_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:44:54Z sol_ is now known as Guest77470 2015-03-04T18:45:09Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:45:18Z jasom: Is there any way to convince slime that a certain file should be considered in a particular package for tab-completion? 2015-03-04T18:45:39Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:46:11Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:46:46Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:48:26Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:48:31Z zacharias quit (Changing host) 2015-03-04T18:48:31Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:48:31Z sol__ quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-03-04T18:48:37Z Guest77470 is now known as sol__ 2015-03-04T18:48:39Z hellofunk quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:51:05Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:53:39Z gklimowicz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:54:13Z arrsim joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:54:52Z a2015_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:55:46Z Oddity joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:56:14Z beslyrus quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:56:28Z zadock joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:57:14Z paradoja quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T18:59:42Z tdawg joined #lisp 2015-03-04T18:59:57Z kraison joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:00:12Z tdawg: first time here 2015-03-04T19:00:31Z tdawg: anyone know how to use berkeley db with sbcl? 2015-03-04T19:01:02Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:01:45Z Shinmera: A quick cliki search shows http://www.cliki.net/berkeley-db 2015-03-04T19:02:19Z Shinmera: Though since it's written for CMUCL it'll probably need some adapting to work on SBCL. 2015-03-04T19:02:24Z tdawg: yep, I downloaded it. It's written for CMUCL 2015-03-04T19:02:36Z jawny joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:02:58Z jawny: Could anyone help me out with scheme? 2015-03-04T19:02:59Z tdawg: I'm totally new to lisp - how difficult is it to port cmucl-targeted code to sbcl 2015-03-04T19:03:06Z Shinmera: jawny: Try #scheme 2015-03-04T19:03:38Z Shinmera: tdawg: SBCL is a CMUCL fork, so probably easier than other libs. 2015-03-04T19:03:54Z Shinmera: But they've gone quite a ways apart since they've been forked, so. 2015-03-04T19:04:02Z girrig joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:04:41Z paroneayea quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T19:04:47Z tdawg: ok... I'll give it a shot and also give FFI a shot. Although like I said, I'm new to lisp. 2015-03-04T19:04:56Z paroneayea joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:05:03Z Shinmera: If you're new you should probably look into trying your hands on a different project 2015-03-04T19:05:12Z MoALTz_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T19:05:23Z tdawg: too hard of a starter project? 2015-03-04T19:05:44Z Shinmera: FFI is neither a fun aspect, nor does it really teach you much about CL programming, I'd say. 2015-03-04T19:05:58Z Shinmera: Why do you want berkeley access in specific? 2015-03-04T19:06:28Z jawny: So right now (in scheme) I'm trying to create a recursive function to list the leaves in a tree. I have a conditional statement set up that first checks to see if the current node is a leaf, then if the current node has both trees, then if the current node just has a left tree, and then if the current node just has a right tree. The issue that I'm running into is that my code keeps on returning just one leaf. I'm guessing this means that it travels down the tre 2015-03-04T19:06:28Z jawny: e, finds a leaf, and then stops without going back up the tree. I think I might have to re-order my statements in cond, or change what it does when a node has 2 subtrees, but I'm not sure what to do. 2015-03-04T19:06:47Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T19:06:48Z tdawg: I select Berkeley DB as my data store for a pet project. I need to store hash-value pairs and btrees 2015-03-04T19:07:08Z tdawg: *selected* 2015-03-04T19:08:23Z Shinmera: Well, you can just use hash-tables for hash-value pairs and btrees should be rather simple to implement. 2015-03-04T19:08:42Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T19:08:46Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:08:54Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T19:09:28Z tdawg: and worry about hooking into berkeley db at some future date when I know my way around lisp better? 2015-03-04T19:09:41Z Shinmera: Yeah, if you still feel like you need it then. 2015-03-04T19:09:51Z Shinmera: I'm sure there's other solutions for that kind of storage out there too. 2015-03-04T19:10:19Z Oddity quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T19:10:24Z Shinmera: As most people will recommend in here, a good starting point is Practical Common Lisp 2015-03-04T19:10:28Z Shinmera: minion: pcl 2015-03-04T19:10:28Z minion: pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 2015-03-04T19:10:29Z tdawg: thanks for the advice. I'll do that and put the bdb integration on the backburner for now 2015-03-04T19:10:36Z tdawg: yeah, I was following it 2015-03-04T19:10:53Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:11:45Z tdawg: chapter 3, Practical: A Simple Database was very useful and I got to stage 1 of my pet project already 2015-03-04T19:12:20Z Shinmera: If you want to play around with databases, there's also a couple of pure-lisp things. You might want to look through http://www.cliki.net/Database 2015-03-04T19:14:24Z tdawg: I had tunnel vision for berkeley db up to now. I'll take a look at the other offerings on that page. 2015-03-04T19:15:14Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T19:16:04Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-04T19:17:33Z tdawg: is there a write up somewhere that discusses adapting CMUCL code to SBCL? 2015-03-04T19:17:34Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:17:34Z oleo quit (Changing host) 2015-03-04T19:17:34Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:17:45Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-04T19:18:11Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-04T19:18:31Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:18:47Z scarygelatin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T19:19:32Z jawny left #lisp 2015-03-04T19:19:43Z Shinmera: I wouldn't know of any, but you could try asking the good folks over in #sbcl if they can offer insight. 2015-03-04T19:20:04Z scarygelatin joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:20:14Z scarygelatin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T19:20:14Z tdawg: thank you Shinmera :) 2015-03-04T19:23:16Z larion joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:25:07Z scarygelatin joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:26:21Z resttime_ quit (Quit: resttime_) 2015-03-04T19:26:45Z resttime joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:28:20Z jasom: tdawg: also check out cl-tc 2015-03-04T19:29:17Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T19:29:25Z Xach: jasom: I've been adding stuff as i need it. 2015-03-04T19:29:47Z tdawg: thanks jasom - will check it out 2015-03-04T19:30:11Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:30:12Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T19:30:22Z jasom: tdawg: and cl-btree 2015-03-04T19:30:30Z tdawg: oh, tokyo cabinet, I was just checking it and kyoto cabinet out 2015-03-04T19:30:44Z jasom: I haven't used either of those, but a quick glance makes them look sane 2015-03-04T19:32:03Z kcj joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:32:40Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:34:15Z scarygelatin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T19:36:25Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T19:40:54Z scarygelatin joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:41:01Z jlongste` joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:41:04Z jlongster quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T19:41:07Z jlongste` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T19:41:44Z jlongster joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:42:04Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:43:19Z dafunktion joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:43:43Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:44:15Z jrm: http://ftfl.ca/paste/swm-maildir-modeline.lisp.html I think I'm getting closer with my little program to show the number of new messages. One issue is that (read-line *mail-stream* nil nil) waits until there is input. Can I make it return immediately? 2015-03-04T19:44:32Z dafunktion quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-04T19:44:48Z ovenpasta joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:45:04Z Xach: jrm: what should it return if a line isn't immediately available? 2015-03-04T19:45:56Z Xach: jrm: LISTEN might help in this situation. 2015-03-04T19:46:09Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T19:46:55Z jrm: Xach: nil? I'll take a closer look at read-line. 2015-03-04T19:46:57Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:47:47Z Xach: read-line will wait until there is a line available. you need to avoid calling it unless you are prepared to wait, or unless you know for sure it won't. 2015-03-04T19:48:02Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:48:25Z jrm: Xach: kk 2015-03-04T19:51:02Z Xach: LISTEN *might* tell you what you need to know 2015-03-04T19:52:38Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, etc.) 2015-03-04T19:53:14Z Wojciech_K quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T19:53:18Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T19:53:33Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:54:08Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T19:54:51Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:55:03Z mj-0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T19:58:04Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T19:58:41Z maxpeck`` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:00:29Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:03:22Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:07:39Z ovenpasta quit (Quit: Sto andando via) 2015-03-04T20:10:43Z kraison1 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:11:11Z kraison quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:16:07Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:17:39Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-03-04T20:17:49Z mrSpec quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:18:03Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:18:28Z jrm: Xach: LISTEN seems to be working well and my mail checker is finally working again (after getting rid of threads since they made StumpWM choppy). Thanks very much. 2015-03-04T20:19:34Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:21:03Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:21:59Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T20:22:59Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:24:23Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:27:08Z Xach: glad to hear it 2015-03-04T20:28:13Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:29:16Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:30:57Z zyaku joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:31:50Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2015-03-04T20:33:35Z selat quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-03-04T20:35:42Z Oddity joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:36:19Z drmeister: Freakin' finally - I got &OPTIONAL to work with Cleavir/Clasp code - I lost a whole day to an uninitialized register Grrrrr 2015-03-04T20:36:44Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:37:00Z kdas_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:37:02Z jathd joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:37:20Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:37:53Z Harag1 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:38:13Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:39:10Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:39:16Z kons joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:39:35Z johann joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:40:54Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:41:06Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:43:12Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:44:15Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:45:11Z johann joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:45:58Z d4ryus___ is now known as d4ryus 2015-03-04T20:46:38Z fierydiarreha joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:46:48Z kdas_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T20:47:08Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T20:47:35Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:48:39Z zyaku quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:50:14Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T20:50:43Z Shinmera quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T20:51:26Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:51:48Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:52:01Z mj-0 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:53:55Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:53:59Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:55:13Z maxpeck`` joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:56:02Z sol__ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T20:56:20Z sol__ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T20:56:38Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T20:56:50Z linux_dream quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-04T21:00:39Z maxpeck`` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T21:01:13Z a2015 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T21:01:25Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-03-04T21:01:30Z whartung joined #lisp 2015-03-04T21:01:31Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2015-03-04T21:02:14Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-04T21:04:19Z tdawg left #lisp 2015-03-04T21:09:00Z Alfr quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T21:11:58Z sol_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T21:12:22Z sol_ is now known as Guest54416 2015-03-04T21:16:56Z ASau` is now known as ASau 2015-03-04T21:17:43Z Guest54416 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T21:31:09Z gklimowi_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T21:34:01Z gklimowicz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T21:40:15Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T21:40:15Z xificurC quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T21:41:04Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-03-04T21:41:10Z badkins quit 2015-03-04T21:44:03Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-03-04T21:44:46Z fxer quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T21:52:04Z axion: how can i create an array with MAKE-ARRAY that works like #2a((0 1 2) (3 4 5) ...), with an arbitrary number of sublists? 2015-03-04T21:52:21Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T21:53:15Z Shinmera: is the sequence of triplets important or is that just example? 2015-03-04T21:53:45Z axion: thats just an example. all obviously will be the same length, but no set length 2015-03-04T21:53:48Z axion: this is for loading game maps 2015-03-04T21:54:38Z Shinmera: Why would you use an array for storing your tiles? That's ludicrously wasteful. 2015-03-04T21:54:49Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-04T21:54:58Z Bicyclidine: (make-array '(2 3) :initial-contents '((0 1 2) (3 4 5))) 2015-03-04T21:54:59Z jathd: Like this? 2015-03-04T21:55:00Z jathd: (setq contents '((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9) (10 11 12))) 2015-03-04T21:55:00Z jathd: (make-array (list (length contents) (length (first contents))) 2015-03-04T21:55:00Z jathd: :initial-contents contents) 2015-03-04T21:55:03Z jathd: 2015-03-04T21:55:07Z Shinmera: jathd: don't paste. 2015-03-04T21:55:13Z jathd: woops 2015-03-04T21:56:02Z axion: Shinmera: what would you suggest i do? this is only for asset storage and one-time load processing 2015-03-04T21:56:51Z Shinmera: What exactly are you trying to store? 2015-03-04T21:57:03Z Shinmera: And how do you need to access it? 2015-03-04T21:59:32Z Shinmera: Storing assets in a two-dimensional array seems strange. 2015-03-04T21:59:42Z bjorkintosh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T22:00:39Z axion: this is a map, with rows and columns of integers stored as lists in a DSL 2015-03-04T22:00:59Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-03-04T22:03:24Z Shinmera: That still doesn't quite tell me why it has to be a two dimensional array. For retrieving assets a system based on some form of name or even tree structure based on named nodes would seem much more sensible. 2015-03-04T22:03:26Z bjorkintosh joined #lisp 2015-03-04T22:04:01Z Shinmera: Or is the problem that you don't have control over the DSL? 2015-03-04T22:04:28Z axion: i currently have been doing it this way for 6 months, except explcitly storing the asset with #2a notation. i need to be able to reference the map data as an array, using array-dimensions and such 2015-03-04T22:06:09Z Shinmera: Ouch. Well, either way, as shown above you can create multi dimensional arrays by passing a list of dimension sizes. (make-array (list dim1 dim2)) 2015-03-04T22:07:40Z pacon quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-04T22:08:17Z clintm joined #lisp 2015-03-04T22:08:37Z ahungry_ quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-04T22:09:47Z axion: ok thanks 2015-03-04T22:12:03Z prxq joined #lisp 2015-03-04T22:14:33Z nikki93_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T22:16:37Z Belias quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-04T22:17:27Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T22:19:53Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW) 2015-03-04T22:25:37Z sunwukong quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-04T22:29:03Z mrSpec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T22:29:50Z White_Flame: Shinmera: what disadvantage are you trying to point out with arrays? 2015-03-04T22:30:21Z White_Flame: just out of curiosity, as I've done a ton of tile-array sort of things in the past, and am always curious as to better ways 2015-03-04T22:32:32Z Shinmera: Well if you have a big game map for example it's likely that most of the space is going to be empty. 2015-03-04T22:32:48Z clintm quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T22:32:56Z Shinmera: It's also inflexible towards changes and other things. 2015-03-04T22:33:20Z Shinmera: Changes in how you want to structure your game world I mean 2015-03-04T22:34:21Z clintm joined #lisp 2015-03-04T22:34:35Z Shinmera: Committing yourself towards a fixed grid is a really bad idea imo unless you know your constraints well and know you won't ever have to change them. 2015-03-04T22:34:55Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T22:35:12Z oGMo: depends on what you need, you can always do chunks of fixed size if you're worried about sparseness 2015-03-04T22:35:37Z Shinmera: Right, which is why I was trying to find out what he was doing. 2015-03-04T22:36:02Z oGMo: yeah, it all depends 2015-03-04T22:36:18Z oGMo: White_Flame: roguelike? 2015-03-04T22:36:35Z Shinmera: If you have f.e. a pacman game where the map is always fixed, sure, good idea. If you want to make something like a JnR, maybe not so much anymore. 2015-03-04T22:37:10Z oGMo: i found that it wasn't terrible to just use a quadtree even for tile-based stuff 2015-03-04T22:37:18Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T22:37:24Z White_Flame: well, a lot of these sorts of structures have leaf nodes which are 2d arrays of tiles 2015-03-04T22:37:35Z oGMo: you can tweak it a little to make sure the grid lines fall nicely 2015-03-04T22:37:42Z White_Flame: reusing super-tiles, saying that a supertile is composed of all 1 tile type, etc 2015-03-04T22:38:04Z oGMo: sure 2015-03-04T22:38:29Z White_Flame: I didn't know if you were hinting at a fundamentally non-array structure 2015-03-04T22:38:36Z kons quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-04T22:39:20Z oGMo: well quadtrees aren't of course, but you can still query them that way if you want 2015-03-04T22:39:22Z White_Flame: and of course, having a 2d array for the "world" and independent movables off in their own free-coordinate quadtree is a niec hybrid 2015-03-04T22:39:49Z oGMo: White_Flame: i actually tried that and found coordinating two different structures was neat in theory, and a massive pain in practice 2015-03-04T22:40:03Z oGMo: especially when you want to start adding layers 2015-03-04T22:40:08Z White_Flame: yeah, it all depends on the game structure. I've done that and it was simple for that 2015-03-04T22:40:26Z oGMo: yeah 2015-03-04T22:40:39Z Shinmera: Trying to mix that and the resulting pain is the primary reason why I shy away from primitive arrays. 2015-03-04T22:41:09Z White_Flame: game jam game with multiple array layers & non-array movables: http://www.white-flame.com/sumjam14/ 2015-03-04T22:41:17Z White_Flame: though javascript, not lisp 2015-03-04T22:41:28Z Shinmera: Burn the witch! 2015-03-04T22:42:08Z White_Flame is heterolingual :) 2015-03-04T22:43:43Z oGMo: White_Flame: ah, i was needing to have the depth vary sprite-to-sprite between array and non-array stuff 2015-03-04T22:43:49Z oGMo: doable but in the end more work than it's worth 2015-03-04T22:43:53Z thail quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-04T22:43:56Z White_Flame: yeah, that'd be a pain 2015-03-04T22:44:01Z ehu quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-04T22:44:09Z oGMo: but it _all_ depends, right now i'm using a simple grid and that's great too 2015-03-04T22:51:12Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__) 2015-03-04T22:51:14Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T22:52:16Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T22:52:38Z axion: Shinmera: to answer your question, my grid is fixed. a strategy game with static, pre-defined tiles 2015-03-04T22:52:55Z Shinmera: Ah, alright. 2015-03-04T22:59:23Z vdamewood joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:00:22Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-04T23:01:23Z kanru quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-04T23:05:52Z axion: I'll show you a preview of what I've been working on for a few months to teach myself CL and GL/gamedev 2015-03-04T23:06:28Z cpc26 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T23:06:51Z axion: While I've been using CL for 6 years, I haven't done anything exciting other than very bad, inefficient, simple stuff...so this project was much needed. oGMo and a few others have taught me a lot 2015-03-04T23:06:53Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:07:12Z axion: (uploading) 2015-03-04T23:09:53Z johann quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T23:10:10Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:10:21Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T23:10:27Z badkins quit 2015-03-04T23:10:47Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: Client Quit) 2015-03-04T23:10:50Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T23:11:01Z Pastaf joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:11:59Z axion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QmgD0gSZqU 2015-03-04T23:12:41Z slyrus joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:12:56Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T23:13:13Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-04T23:16:23Z radioninja joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:16:32Z White_Flame: nice. and I can commiserate how much of a nuisance mouse-to-world space conversion is ;) 2015-03-04T23:17:20Z jasom: axion: obviously you should be packing it into a bit-vector 2015-03-04T23:17:22Z jasom ducks 2015-03-04T23:17:24Z axion: yeah was difficult until i understood how to cast a ray from znear to zfar 2015-03-04T23:17:58Z pillton: Perspective geometry is awesome. 2015-03-04T23:18:28Z Shinmera is working on a tiny 2d game platformer thing for another Qtools example, but hasn't really felt much like working on it. 2015-03-04T23:18:32Z axion: all in CL, except for the cffi functions called for sdl2/gl of course 2015-03-04T23:19:34Z pillton: Nice work. 2015-03-04T23:19:35Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T23:20:10Z axion: before i started, i had no prior 3d knowledge, and a lot of the math i learned thus far. mainly started this project to become familiar with those things and to be more proficient in CL 2015-03-04T23:20:13Z axion: thank you 2015-03-04T23:21:08Z axion: i've been ready to give up about a 100 times already, but somehow i haven't. doing this primarily to learn...i don't expect it to ever be usable 2015-03-04T23:21:19Z pillton: Nice. Learning perspective geometry and OpenGL at the same time. What fun. 2015-03-04T23:21:37Z slyrus_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:21:55Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:22:14Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-04T23:22:39Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 2015-03-04T23:24:21Z axion: it's my 'forever project'. i hope to become a better programmer keeping at it is all. so far i exceeded my expectations in that area, but a lot of improvement can be made 2015-03-04T23:24:53Z pillton: It is programming. Programming is always being improved. 2015-03-04T23:27:01Z axion: seriously, i am by no means a good programmer, and even less for CL. i'd show you my repo, but it's not really suitable for criticism yet :) 2015-03-04T23:27:01Z zyaku joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:28:11Z pillton: You have to start somewhere. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. 2015-03-04T23:28:50Z axion: well, i've been using CL for 6 years. but i started programming at an oldish age, and only had brief python experience before CL 2015-03-04T23:30:02Z scarygelatin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T23:30:33Z scarygelatin joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:30:34Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-03-04T23:30:35Z scarygelatin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-04T23:30:52Z pillton: Age is of no concern. It is our current instance of civilisation that causes this inverse relationship between age and ability to learn. 2015-03-04T23:33:52Z gko quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-04T23:34:16Z nell joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:35:05Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:36:20Z axion: this is true. i just don't have a lot of experience yet :) 2015-03-04T23:36:23Z sdothum joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:37:12Z scymtym_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:37:14Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-04T23:37:48Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:37:54Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:39:39Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-04T23:40:25Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-04T23:41:24Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-04T23:41:36Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T23:42:27Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:44:24Z Longlius joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:45:19Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-04T23:46:43Z zyaku quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-04T23:47:03Z scarygelatin joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:47:19Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-03-04T23:48:32Z ajtulloc_ joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:50:02Z clintm quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-04T23:50:23Z jasom: axion: I think it actually takes less time to learn when you are older; it's just that it's easy to spend 4-6 hours a day doing something random when you're a kid, and less so as an adult. 2015-03-04T23:51:03Z pillton: jasom: Precisely. 2015-03-04T23:51:38Z jasom: e.g. by the time I was 17 I had probably spent more time programming in C, than I have to date in Common Lisp, even though I had been doing it for 5 years at 17 and I've been using Common Lisp for about 10 2015-03-04T23:52:13Z sdothum quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in) 2015-03-04T23:52:16Z jasom: despite that, I'm probably more proficient with Lisp than I was with C at 17 2015-03-04T23:52:30Z axion: i am pretty devoted to learning though. i've invested about 12 hours a day for the last 4 months into this project. 2015-03-04T23:52:50Z jasom: wow! 2015-03-04T23:53:50Z axion: yes, i have actually fixed bugs in my sleep 2015-03-04T23:53:52Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:54:15Z gko joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:56:47Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:57:17Z zyaku joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:57:21Z sdothum joined #lisp 2015-03-04T23:59:50Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)