2015-02-08T00:03:27Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-02-08T00:07:36Z _leb quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2015-02-08T00:16:07Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-08T00:27:54Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T00:31:03Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T00:31:37Z montyxcantsin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T00:31:49Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-02-08T00:31:52Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-08T00:32:12Z montyxcantsin joined #lisp 2015-02-08T00:34:14Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-02-08T00:35:58Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T00:38:44Z fortitude_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T00:40:29Z fortitude quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-08T00:48:37Z vdamewood quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2015-02-08T00:54:30Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2015-02-08T00:58:23Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T01:11:14Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T01:13:13Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T01:14:05Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T01:14:24Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T01:15:01Z tharugrim quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-02-08T01:16:27Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-02-08T01:20:13Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T01:20:47Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-08T01:21:22Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-08T01:22:27Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-02-08T01:26:22Z taspat` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-08T01:29:43Z alphabetsoup joined #lisp 2015-02-08T01:44:34Z Big_G joined #lisp 2015-02-08T01:45:38Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2015-02-08T01:46:48Z profess joined #lisp 2015-02-08T01:47:15Z yenda joined #lisp 2015-02-08T01:53:18Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T01:56:02Z enitiz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T01:56:41Z emaczen: how can I find out which functions are applicable to the vector class 2015-02-08T01:57:32Z Bike: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_arrays.htm 2015-02-08T01:58:01Z emaczen: Bike: There aren't any slime features? 2015-02-08T01:58:24Z emaczen: I'm looking for the equivalent of cdr 2015-02-08T01:58:48Z |3b|: subseq or displaced arrays are closest equivalents 2015-02-08T01:58:53Z Bike: "applicable to vectors" is so broad as to be pretty useless 2015-02-08T01:58:56Z Bike: but yeah, isn't one really. 2015-02-08T01:59:56Z |3b|: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_sequen.htm in addition to the list for arrays, and possibly some of the srtings chapter depending on the vector 2015-02-08T02:00:07Z emaczen: Bike: wouldn't the set of applicable methods be those that are specialized on the vector class? 2015-02-08T02:00:10Z |3b|: *strings 2015-02-08T02:00:29Z |3b|: emaczen: lots of CL is older than CLOS so is just normal functions instead of methods 2015-02-08T02:00:56Z nyef: Pre-CLOS CL had an interesting flavor to it. d-: 2015-02-08T02:00:58Z |3b|: (and also for performance reasons, which may or may not still apply) 2015-02-08T02:01:36Z |3b|: and you would also need to consider super and subclasses of VECTOR 2015-02-08T02:02:26Z nyef: Right, #'IDENTITY works with vectors. 2015-02-08T02:02:35Z |3b|: including things that accept T, for example would you consider CONSP to be "applicable" to the vector class? it has a defined behavior for it 2015-02-08T02:03:33Z |3b|: or LIST, CONS, etc that accept anything 2015-02-08T02:06:15Z emaczen: So I just looked up the historical TIOBE index (I would say it is at least a decent estimation) and Lisp was #2 in 1985 2015-02-08T02:06:27Z emaczen: Now it is 18 -- what happened? 2015-02-08T02:06:50Z |3b|: lots more competition, particularly from things that learned from CL's strengths 2015-02-08T02:07:19Z |3b|: also, that sounds unlikely to be accurate even in '85 2015-02-08T02:07:57Z emaczen: THey have ADA as #2 and pascal as #5 and C as #1 2015-02-08T02:08:21Z emaczen: c++ as #12 2015-02-08T02:08:38Z |3b|: but also look at things like the "ai winter" for some historical context 2015-02-08T02:09:31Z nyef: Also the non-technical, non-marketing reasons behind the failure of lisp businesses in the late '80s and early '90s. 2015-02-08T02:09:37Z |3b|: people over-sold it, then failed to produce results, so it was inflated for a bit then got hit by backlash from people who blamed it for the failures instead of blaming the over-selling 2015-02-08T02:10:45Z nyef: Companies getting involved in things that simply weren't their business, or setting themselves up to have to reimplement a huge amount of software produced by others because they couldn't re-use it as-was. 2015-02-08T02:12:18Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T02:12:31Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-02-08T02:13:56Z badkins quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T02:15:06Z _leb joined #lisp 2015-02-08T02:23:33Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T02:23:57Z adlai joined #lisp 2015-02-08T02:26:14Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T02:55:14Z emaczen: If I am using mapcar to iteratve over a list, is it safe to modify this list? 2015-02-08T02:56:18Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-02-08T02:57:21Z pjb: Under certain conditions. 2015-02-08T02:57:47Z modula joined #lisp 2015-02-08T02:58:36Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T02:58:37Z modula is now known as defaultxr 2015-02-08T03:00:19Z emaczen: pjb: Is there a double-linked list? 2015-02-08T03:00:45Z emaczen: how can I access the previous element in a list given the current? 2015-02-08T03:01:01Z pjb: Yes: com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.dll 2015-02-08T03:01:10Z pjb: You can't. 2015-02-08T03:01:22Z pjb: You have to be smarter than that. 2015-02-08T03:02:33Z emaczen: ? 2015-02-08T03:02:41Z pjb: What are lists? 2015-02-08T03:03:06Z emaczen: elements with pointers to a next element 2015-02-08T03:04:06Z pjb: Well, in lisp, a list is either the symbol NIL or a cons cell whose CDR is a list. The element of the list is stored into the CAR. So already, it's different from what you would naively do in C… 2015-02-08T03:04:23Z pillton joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:04:33Z pjb: But either way, if you have a reference to the next element or to the next cons cell, how would it be possible to go in the other direction? 2015-02-08T03:04:57Z emaczen: that's why I asked about a double-linked-list 2015-02-08T03:05:21Z agumonkey quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-02-08T03:05:30Z emaczen: A lot languages have double-linked-lists 2015-02-08T03:05:42Z emaczen: I'm not sure how rich CL is with standard library collections 2015-02-08T03:05:48Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:06:00Z pjb: emaczen: see: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw60/CLHS/Body/03_f.htm 2015-02-08T03:06:11Z pjb: emaczen: lisp too: com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.dll 2015-02-08T03:06:33Z agumonkey joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:08:22Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T03:08:50Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-02-08T03:09:17Z pjb: Notice that nothing prevents you to implement lists in lisp like in other languages: 2015-02-08T03:09:24Z pjb: (defstruct element name value next) 2015-02-08T03:09:41Z pjb: (make-element :name "first" :value 1 :next (make-element :name "second" :value 2 :next nil)) 2015-02-08T03:09:47Z ebrasca quit (Quit: ebrasca) 2015-02-08T03:09:56Z emaczen: pjb: I might do that for a learning exercise and then implement the solution to my problem 2015-02-08T03:10:06Z emaczen: Or I might just solve my problem inefficiently first 2015-02-08T03:10:28Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:10:29Z pjb: In general, it would be silly to do that because you couldn't benefit from all the list processing functions provided by lisp, but in some cases, you still want to do that. 2015-02-08T03:11:04Z pjb: One advantage of having list nodes (cons cells) separate from the elements, is that it allows to include elements in several liss. 2015-02-08T03:11:17Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T03:11:38Z emaczen: pjb: what do you mean by separate? 2015-02-08T03:11:45Z emaczen: Oh I see 2015-02-08T03:12:22Z pjb: For example: (let ((forward (list 1 2 3 4))) (values forward (nreverse (copy-list forward)))) --> (1 2 3 4), (4 3 2 1) 2015-02-08T03:12:57Z pjb: Another advantage is that it allows to have heterogeneous lists: (one 2 "three" #(x x x x)) 2015-02-08T03:13:46Z pjb: You want to read http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/14_.htm and http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/17_.htm 2015-02-08T03:14:00Z modula joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:14:10Z fortitude_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T03:15:52Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T03:15:53Z modula is now known as defaultxr 2015-02-08T03:18:50Z johann quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T03:19:08Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:19:21Z alphabetsoup quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T03:27:31Z jonh joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:29:26Z spacebatty joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:34:37Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T03:36:50Z emaczen: pjb: actually, I'm not sure I see the difference between a cons cell and a linked-list implementation in C 2015-02-08T03:37:12Z emaczen: I would make a node struct with a value and a pointer 2015-02-08T03:37:36Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2015-02-08T03:38:05Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:38:26Z |3b|: emaczen: in CL a cons cell is 2 values 2015-02-08T03:38:49Z emaczen: what about the pointer? 2015-02-08T03:38:52Z |3b|: it can be equivalent to a value + pointer in c, or value+value, or pointer+pointer, depending on how you use it 2015-02-08T03:39:05Z emaczen: 3b: Ok cool 2015-02-08T03:39:19Z |3b|: all values are pointers if you want to think in terms of pointers 2015-02-08T03:39:33Z |3b|: (which is why that isn't really a useful way to think of CL) 2015-02-08T03:40:11Z |3b|: particularly since it isn't quite correct in practice, since characters and numbers are allowed to be optimized to not have storage 2015-02-08T03:40:29Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-02-08T03:40:41Z |3b|: but (cons 1 2) is perfectly fine in CL, it just doesn't return a "proper list" 2015-02-08T03:40:59Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T03:41:07Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T03:41:08Z |3b|: similarly you can build a tree with (cons (cons 1 2) (cons 3 4)) 2015-02-08T03:41:29Z emaczen: Yeah I have built trees before and it was awesome! 2015-02-08T03:41:38Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:41:46Z emaczen: I probably just need more lisp experience 2015-02-08T03:43:50Z _leb quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2015-02-08T03:45:05Z Pyridrym quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-02-08T03:45:08Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:45:45Z pjb: emaczen: a cons cell is more generic. You could implement it in C as: typedef struct proper_list_cons_cell { void* element; struct proper_list_cons_cell* next; } proper_list_cons_cell; 2015-02-08T03:46:39Z pjb: emaczen: which would allow you to use the same set of C functions for all your lists: lists of strings, lists of thingy, lists of whatever, and, foremost, that would allow you to build several lists containing the same elements. 2015-02-08T03:47:14Z pjb: lisp was designed to work on machine that had only 32 Kw of RAM (and when you hooked a modem to it, the buffers of the modem used 16 Kw! 2015-02-08T03:47:50Z pjb: Therefore it is very natural in lisp to share data from one structure to another, instead of copying it all over the place like they do in C or C++. 2015-02-08T03:48:48Z emaczen: pjb: interesting 2015-02-08T03:51:38Z emaczen: What is Kw? 2015-02-08T03:51:47Z pjb: kilo word. 2015-02-08T03:52:10Z emaczen: so 1000 words? where the word size is ? 2015-02-08T03:52:55Z Bike: why is that important? 2015-02-08T03:53:04Z pjb: The memory then wasn't byte-addressable, but word-addressable, with 36-bit per words, structured in 4 fields: 3-bit 15-bit 3-bit and 15-bit. The first 15-bit was a decrement counter, and the second 15-bit an address. The 3-bit fields were used for op-code in instructions, or for tags in data. 2015-02-08T03:53:19Z nyef: Mmm. 36-bit words were the norm at the time. 2015-02-08T03:53:43Z pjb: Bike: because it shows that lisp has evolved on very small memory footprints. This explains some characteristics. 2015-02-08T03:54:12Z p_l: generally, 8bits to byte are quite new thing 2015-02-08T03:54:13Z nyef: How else could you represent nine decimal orders of magnitude in a packed BCD representation? 2015-02-08T03:54:29Z Bike: i just meant the word size. 's not like it's gonna be 32 kw with a word equals 1024 bits 2015-02-08T03:54:34Z pjb: Also, next time somebody complains about CAR/CDR, it might be fun to recall that the CAR and CDR functions weren't invented for lisp, but for FLPL. 2015-02-08T03:54:36Z nyef: (A very important requirement for scientific and engineering calculations!) 2015-02-08T03:55:12Z p_l: pjb: I recall them as quite common macros used in the assembler of the IBM machine used to implement 2015-02-08T03:55:37Z pjb: p_l: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/flpl/ 2015-02-08T03:57:35Z pjb: p_l: of course, that came from the hardware, but when you see this word structure in the 7090, and recall that it had a XEC instruction which is basically the assembler equivalent of EVAL, you realize that the team who designed the 7090 were really great. 2015-02-08T03:57:59Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-02-08T03:58:28Z theos joined #lisp 2015-02-08T03:58:31Z p_l: IIRC, CAR, CDR, CTR and CPR first appear in macro libraries for IBM 704 2015-02-08T03:59:09Z p_l: but that's going into academic navel gazing territory 2015-02-08T04:00:11Z spacebatty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T04:00:48Z Pyridrym joined #lisp 2015-02-08T04:07:33Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T04:08:06Z BitPuffin quit (Quit: See you on the dark side of the moon!) 2015-02-08T04:16:52Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-02-08T04:17:43Z Big_G: hiyosi: Cool name 2015-02-08T04:17:57Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T04:20:04Z zacts joined #lisp 2015-02-08T04:23:32Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all) 2015-02-08T04:25:40Z keen__________56 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T04:26:22Z keen__________55 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-08T04:28:51Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2015-02-08T04:31:14Z adlai joined #lisp 2015-02-08T04:33:33Z arpunk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T04:37:15Z cluck quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T04:39:21Z beach joined #lisp 2015-02-08T04:39:28Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2015-02-08T04:45:28Z p_l: good evening from the rainy california ;) 2015-02-08T04:45:58Z beach: p_l: Job? 2015-02-08T04:46:40Z p_l: I'm in delegation for a month 2015-02-08T04:46:54Z scornflakes joined #lisp 2015-02-08T04:47:03Z scornflakes left #lisp 2015-02-08T04:47:29Z beach: Congratulations, I guess. 2015-02-08T04:47:33Z p_l: heh 2015-02-08T04:48:00Z p_l: tbh I'm more disappointed and frustrated by the Bay Area than I expected 2015-02-08T04:48:17Z p_l: I guess I'm too european ;) 2015-02-08T04:48:41Z beach: San Francisco looks a bit European. 2015-02-08T04:49:29Z zacts quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-02-08T04:49:53Z p_l: if you manage to be in the SF itself, I guess 2015-02-08T04:50:38Z p_l: our client has a DC in San Jose, I ended up hiring a car after trying to travel 700m on foot and being unable to do so because no sidewalks 2015-02-08T04:51:05Z beach: Heh! Yes, it is like that in places. 2015-02-08T04:51:23Z beach: You can also get yourself arrested for walking. 2015-02-08T04:52:10Z p_l: some "sidewalks" are also just a line on the asphalt, so it can be easy to not notice them (or consider them "holy fuck is that unsafe!") 2015-02-08T04:52:54Z beach: Try to enjoy the positive aspects of it. There are some, believe me. 2015-02-08T04:53:34Z p_l: heh. Well, majority of my time is taken with work and I don't have access to a car most of the time other than grabbing a taxi or para-taxi (like Uber etc.) 2015-02-08T04:53:48Z p_l: then add the 9h difference involved in calls home 2015-02-08T04:54:12Z JuanDaugherty lived in the valley when it was nice 2015-02-08T04:55:10Z p_l: If I were to join a company in the valley, I'd probably try for something like GitHub, which appears to have a remote work approach that actually works 2015-02-08T04:55:15Z p_l: (pun intended) 2015-02-08T04:55:37Z kepler joined #lisp 2015-02-08T04:55:58Z p_l: live somewhere saner, earn in USD ;) 2015-02-08T04:59:51Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:05:30Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T05:06:10Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:07:25Z Big_G quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-08T05:09:07Z shwouchk quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-08T05:09:12Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:09:20Z clop2 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-08T05:09:33Z mmathers quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T05:09:42Z shwouchk joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:10:23Z mmathers joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:10:23Z hugod quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T05:10:23Z clop2 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:10:39Z hugod joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:11:00Z hugod is now known as Guest88141 2015-02-08T05:11:18Z Krystof quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-08T05:12:33Z replcated_ quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-02-08T05:12:46Z replcated joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:17:04Z Big_G joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:17:49Z selat joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:22:58Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:25:16Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T05:27:06Z Big_G left #lisp 2015-02-08T05:34:23Z rhllor joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:37:18Z Big_G_TEST joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:39:06Z zacts joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:39:28Z Big_G_TEST is now known as Big_G 2015-02-08T05:40:13Z Big_G_TEST joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:41:01Z Big_G_TEST quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T05:41:47Z Big_G quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T05:42:03Z Big_G_TEST joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:42:14Z Big_G joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:42:25Z Big_G_TEST quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T05:46:50Z harish joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:48:41Z beach: splittist: Why do you think the reference to Krystof's paper is wrong? 2015-02-08T05:49:47Z harish quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-02-08T05:50:51Z protist joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:51:00Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-02-08T05:53:09Z harish joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:55:58Z harish quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-02-08T05:56:33Z harish joined #lisp 2015-02-08T05:56:57Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2015-02-08T05:59:17Z harish quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-02-08T06:00:27Z Pyridrym quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-02-08T06:01:39Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-02-08T06:04:58Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T06:08:25Z Natch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T06:09:36Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T06:10:06Z oleo is now known as Guest27093 2015-02-08T06:11:39Z Natch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T06:11:51Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T06:13:20Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T06:13:31Z Guest27093 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T06:14:15Z Natch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T06:15:25Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T06:16:25Z Natch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T06:17:39Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T06:18:13Z Natch quit (Excess Flood) 2015-02-08T06:27:19Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T06:30:17Z pjb joined #lisp 2015-02-08T06:33:09Z rhllor quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T06:37:58Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2015-02-08T06:43:57Z hvxgr quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T06:46:12Z beach: New version of paper on first-class global environments here: http://metamodular.com/environments.pdf including feedback from Shinmera, Quadrescence, nyef, and splittist. Not finished yet, though. 2015-02-08T06:47:23Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T06:49:28Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-08T06:50:27Z Big_G quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T06:50:55Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T06:51:11Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T06:58:01Z |3b|: beach: in 4.1 ,"With the traditional of ..." sounds like it is missing something, or should have been "tradition" 2015-02-08T06:58:24Z alecigne quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T07:00:46Z |3b| also wonders if whatever is doing the layout of that paper could be taught that DEFVAR breaks at DEF- rather than DE- 2015-02-08T07:01:18Z |3b| isn't sure where you would break DEFUN though 2015-02-08T07:03:32Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-02-08T07:06:40Z Quadrescence: beach, missed a T: FUNCTION-TYPE, third paragraph, end 2015-02-08T07:07:43Z Big_G joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:08:02Z Big_G quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T07:11:15Z splittist: beach: I just expected some part to be italicised, but I know nothing about how to cite proceedings. Also, if you're using this ACM format to fit more onto each page, can you suppress the obnoxious copyright statement at the bottom of the first column? 2015-02-08T07:12:48Z |3b|: beach: under 'special-operator', "The definition is an the object..." 2015-02-08T07:14:30Z Big_G joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:14:48Z |3b|: beach: under fdefinition 2nd para, "... namespece ..." 2015-02-08T07:14:49Z hvxgr joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:15:06Z Big_G quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T07:15:08Z beach: Wow, more remarks. That's great! Thanks. 2015-02-08T07:15:45Z beach: splittist: Good point. ELS might not require the ACM format. 2015-02-08T07:15:48Z kalzz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T07:17:49Z beach: |3b|: Fixed "traditional"! 2015-02-08T07:17:52Z |3b|: beach: what does fdefinition return if a name is both a special operator and a macro? 2015-02-08T07:18:52Z beach: |3b|: Probably the same as CL:FDEFINITION does. I'll investigate. 2015-02-08T07:19:05Z Quadrescence: beach, add a \usepackage{comicsans} to the top for a more professional look and feel. 2015-02-08T07:20:49Z beach: |3b|: Fixed the layout of the DEF... macro names. 2015-02-08T07:21:09Z johann quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T07:21:42Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:22:02Z beach: Quadrescence: Fixed the T. 2015-02-08T07:22:52Z |3b|: beach: (setf macro-function) might not want to preserve setf expander if new-def is NIL 2015-02-08T07:22:58Z beach: splittist: I am also using the Bibtex entries provided by ACM, so I trust that they know how to distinguish different kinds of references. 2015-02-08T07:23:14Z |3b|: or if it does, you need to look at implications of having setf expanders on unbound symbols or on special operators 2015-02-08T07:23:49Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T07:24:13Z beach: |3b|: Fixed the "an the" problem. 2015-02-08T07:26:19Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T07:26:40Z rhllor joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:26:58Z beach: |3b|: Fixed the "namespace" problem. 2015-02-08T07:27:40Z beach: Quadrescence: I'll try the package, but I don't know what ELS requires. 2015-02-08T07:28:15Z Quadrescence: beach, You're credible enough to break the rules once in a while. ;) 2015-02-08T07:28:24Z beach: Heh! 2015-02-08T07:28:31Z beach: |3b|: The protocol is not set in stone, but I will definitely take your remarks into account. 2015-02-08T07:29:59Z |3b|: well, (setf setf-expander) errors if there is no definition or if there is a special operator, so seems odd to be able to do same thing with a few extra calls to (setf macro-function) 2015-02-08T07:30:28Z beach: |3b|: Sure, good point. 2015-02-08T07:30:55Z beach: |3b|: How should I refer to you in the acknowledgments? 2015-02-08T07:31:29Z beach: Quadrescence, splittist, Shinmera: check that I got your names right in the acknowledgments, please! 2015-02-08T07:32:51Z beach: |3b|: If you don't want your name to appear, that's fine too. :) 2015-02-08T07:32:59Z |3b| refers to me as Bart Botta 2015-02-08T07:33:05Z kalzz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:33:09Z beach: |3b|: Thanks. 2015-02-08T07:33:31Z Quadrescence: looks good 2015-02-08T07:34:29Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:36:25Z |3b|: beach: most places say "ordinary function or generic function", but (setf fdefinition) just says "must be a function" 2015-02-08T07:36:53Z |3b|: also, do any of those work with funcallable objects? 2015-02-08T07:37:18Z |3b|: or is that just a MOP thing 2015-02-08T07:37:24Z stepnem joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:38:25Z beach: |3b|: Fixed. 2015-02-08T07:38:45Z beach: |3b|: funcallable-standard-object is not in the Common Lisp HyperSpec. 2015-02-08T07:38:49Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T07:39:27Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:42:47Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T07:42:59Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:43:11Z |3b|: beach: no (setf function-lambda-list) ? 2015-02-08T07:43:32Z ruste quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T07:43:33Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:44:46Z |3b|: beach: constant-variable says it defines a variable rather than returning the value 2015-02-08T07:49:00Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:50:05Z Shinmera: beach: My name is correct. Thanks a lot! 2015-02-08T07:50:28Z |3b|: beach: under symbol-macro, not sure what "...is returned by two consecutive calls as the first argument as long as the definition of symbol does not change" is saying, possibly some extra words there? 2015-02-08T07:50:50Z |3b|: beach: missing ) on (setf symbol-macro 2015-02-08T07:52:14Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2015-02-08T07:52:37Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T07:53:31Z |3b|: beach: also under symbol macro, possibly would be better phrased with "is always the same (in the sense of eq) ..." like in function-cell, otherwise i wonder if "consecutive" is significant (what happens if i call something else in between, or call it with a different symbol, etc) 2015-02-08T07:53:47Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:55:02Z beach: |3b|: Fixed the entry for CONSTANT-VARIABLE. 2015-02-08T07:55:28Z |3b|: is it an error to declaim a type for a constant in CL? 2015-02-08T07:55:40Z beach: |3b|: I will consider (SETF FUNCTION-LAMBDA-LIST), but I need time to think about how to define it. 2015-02-08T07:56:00Z beach: |3b|: I think the Common Lisp HyperSpec is silent about it. 2015-02-08T07:57:06Z beach: |3b|: Added the missing ). 2015-02-08T07:57:32Z Krystof joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:58:15Z |3b|: seems like it could be reasonable to do, for cases where TYPE-OF isn't as specific as it could be, for example CONS vs (CONS INTEGER NULL), though probably would want to add a check that they are compatible 2015-02-08T07:59:16Z radioninja joined #lisp 2015-02-08T07:59:21Z beach: |3b|: Definitely some words missing in the entry for SYMBOL-MACRO. Fixed! 2015-02-08T07:59:23Z |3b|: or just because users wanted to declare the type (particularly when they can introspect declared types) 2015-02-08T08:00:33Z beach: I need time to think about it. 2015-02-08T08:00:49Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2015-02-08T08:01:28Z d4ryus___ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:01:58Z |3b|: and since you can set a type and then define it as a constant, erroring in the other order is inconsistent 2015-02-08T08:02:18Z |3b|: you can set it in that order without erroring i mean 2015-02-08T08:03:22Z beach: I don't think it makes much sense to set the type of a constant. I mean a type is a set of objects, and for a constant, the type would be that singleton set, no matter how it is notated. 2015-02-08T08:04:07Z |3b|: not saying it is particularly useful in most cases 2015-02-08T08:04:37Z d4ryus_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T08:05:00Z |3b|: though if you return TYPE-OF there are cases where you could declare a more specific type, since (type-of x) doesn't return (eql x), so the type you get isn't the singleton set 2015-02-08T08:05:19Z |3b|: as in the cons example above 2015-02-08T08:06:08Z |3b| isn't sure, but you might be able to meaningfully specify a better type for arrays as well, don't remember how array types are interpreted in that context though 2015-02-08T08:06:50Z beach: I see what you are saying, but I prefer to view it as TYPE-OF not returning "the type" of the object, but some other type. 2015-02-08T08:06:52Z araujo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:06:52Z araujo quit (Changing host) 2015-02-08T08:06:52Z araujo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:07:34Z beach: You might be right. I'll have to think about it. 2015-02-08T08:08:55Z |3b|: other case is using the environment to store metadata for macros to use (on implementations where you can access it), like i think opticl does, and being able to just treat constants like other variables makes things a bit simpler 2015-02-08T08:09:20Z someone quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-02-08T08:09:24Z J_4096 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:09:53Z beach: Sorry, don't know what opticl does. 2015-02-08T08:09:54Z |3b| doesn't think either case is very likely, but always nice to find out CL spec thought of some edge case when you do run into it as a user :) 2015-02-08T08:10:39Z someon joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:12:25Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:12:45Z beach: |3b|: There are two distinct considerations with respect to the paper. One is to get the paper in sufficiently good shape for it to be accepted at ELS. The other is what the exact protocol should be. Right now, the firs one is the most important, especially since the other one is hard to determine just by thinking about it (for me at least). Therefore, I am willing to leave the details of the protocol to later, when I have more 2015-02-08T08:12:45Z beach: experience with it. 2015-02-08T08:12:53Z wilfredh quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T08:12:54Z gz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T08:12:54Z splittist quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T08:12:55Z joshmcmillan_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T08:12:57Z beach: ... and when I have had time to listen to more opinions about it. 2015-02-08T08:13:03Z |3b|: it uses cltl2 environemnt functions to check for declarations, then uses them to compile more efficient code 2015-02-08T08:13:08Z gregburd_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T08:13:17Z NhanH quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T08:13:18Z Amaan quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T08:13:25Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T08:13:27Z beach: I see. 2015-02-08T08:13:35Z gz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:13:56Z joshmcmillan_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:14:23Z wilfredh joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:14:29Z |3b|: yeah, "i'll think about it later" is an acceptable answer :) (or even not thinking about it later :) 2015-02-08T08:14:40Z beach: Heh! OK. 2015-02-08T08:15:02Z gregburd_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:15:17Z Amaan joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:15:46Z NhanH joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:16:34Z |3b| wonders if the CDR of the cells could store a 'bound' flag efficiently... i guess it would probably be a bit slower 2015-02-08T08:16:59Z splittist joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:17:20Z |3b|: just seems sort of odd having the 'unbound' marker potentially floating around in user code as a value 2015-02-08T08:17:29Z ggole joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:18:49Z zadock joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:20:58Z |3b|: beach: does (setf find-class) error if you pass it strange values? 2015-02-08T08:21:50Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-02-08T08:21:52Z ehu joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:21:59Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:22:52Z |3b|: beach: alternately, it should say it "must be" a metaobject or nil 2015-02-08T08:24:11Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T08:24:11Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T08:24:42Z someon quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-02-08T08:24:59Z |3b|: beach: missing ) in (setf type-expander 2015-02-08T08:26:02Z someon joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:26:30Z rhllor quit (Quit: rhllor) 2015-02-08T08:27:23Z |3b|: beach: (setf package-nicknames) should probably get rid of old nicknames 2015-02-08T08:28:37Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T08:31:03Z beach: Sorry, I was away. 2015-02-08T08:31:58Z beach: For the function cell, it would be slower. I prefer that it be possible to always call the CAR. 2015-02-08T08:32:11Z minion joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:32:41Z beach: Added the missing closing parenthesis. 2015-02-08T08:32:50Z specbot joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:33:03Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T08:33:03Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T08:33:09Z beach: Yes, (setf package-nicknames) replaces the nicknames. 2015-02-08T08:33:47Z |3b|: yeah, function cell could still have an error function in CAR even if the marker was a flag in CDR, though not sure it is worth it 2015-02-08T08:34:00Z |3b|: not sure trying to use CDR is worth it i mean 2015-02-08T08:35:28Z Natch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T08:35:42Z beach: Yes, I see what you mean. 2015-02-08T08:36:00Z |3b|: was more that code using that API could store the marker in the variable, and then things get confusing 2015-02-08T08:36:14Z beach: Added paragraph to (setf find-class) stating that an error is signaled if it is neither a class metaobject nor NIL. 2015-02-08T08:36:17Z |3b|: which admittedly falls under the "don't do that then" response :) 2015-02-08T08:36:39Z beach: Indeed. :) 2015-02-08T08:37:07Z beach: The protocol is not meant to be used directly by application code. 2015-02-08T08:37:24Z |3b|: is symbol-value intended to be in the protocol? 2015-02-08T08:37:27Z beach: In fact, it will probably be in a first-class global environment not accessible to the user. :) 2015-02-08T08:37:41Z beach: No, symbol value can't be in the protocol. 2015-02-08T08:38:47Z beach: SYMBOL-VALUE requires access to the dynamic run-time environment. 2015-02-08T08:39:32Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T08:39:44Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:41:36Z beach: In SICL, I implement SYMBOL-VALUE as a call to a function that receives the value cell and the UNBOUND value as a arguments. It then traverses the dynamic run-time environment to check for bindings and only if no binding is found does it access the cell. 2015-02-08T08:42:16Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:42:54Z beach: as arguments. 2015-02-08T08:43:33Z Natch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T08:47:18Z |3b|: beach: package-nicknames should probably refer to cl:package-nicknames instead of cl:package-names 2015-02-08T08:47:34Z beach: Oops. Yes, definitely. 2015-02-08T08:48:27Z Lokathor_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-02-08T08:49:28Z beach: Latest version here: http://metamodular.com/environments.pdf 2015-02-08T08:49:54Z |3b|: paste.lisp.org seems to be down if anyone is around who can restart it or whatever (and the bots as well) 2015-02-08T08:50:28Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime) 2015-02-08T08:50:37Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:52:28Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:52:39Z Shinmera: I'll ping stassats 2015-02-08T08:52:59Z Shinmera: Ah wait, he isn't around yet, nvm 2015-02-08T08:53:29Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-02-08T08:54:08Z Xof joined #lisp 2015-02-08T08:59:41Z scymtym_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:01:55Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:03:35Z minion joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:03:36Z specbot joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:03:43Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:04:37Z Rudolph-Miller_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T09:04:39Z tkhoa2711 quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T09:05:04Z smull_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T09:05:05Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T09:05:06Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T09:05:53Z smull joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:07:17Z theos quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T09:09:14Z Rudolph-Miller joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:09:40Z minion joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:10:19Z specbot joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:11:04Z theos joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:12:15Z ehu quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-02-08T09:12:51Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:24:33Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:26:04Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T09:27:28Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T09:28:35Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:29:31Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T09:31:01Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T09:31:21Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-02-08T09:34:04Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:35:38Z xificurC joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:38:33Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:40:48Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:43:15Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T09:45:59Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T09:46:11Z ehu joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:49:28Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:52:01Z gko__ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:52:32Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2015-02-08T09:58:13Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, etc.) 2015-02-08T09:59:19Z zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 2015-02-08T10:01:22Z montyxcantsin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-08T10:04:56Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:06:45Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T10:09:04Z pnpuff left #lisp 2015-02-08T10:11:29Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight) 2015-02-08T10:12:18Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:13:29Z Natch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T10:13:58Z Soft quit (Quit: --yes) 2015-02-08T10:13:59Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T10:16:05Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T10:17:08Z karswell joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:17:30Z Bahman joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:19:13Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:22:12Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:24:04Z Soft joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:25:13Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:25:52Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:26:54Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T10:27:06Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:28:58Z J_4096 quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-02-08T10:30:23Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T10:30:33Z schaueho joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:30:38Z krfantasy joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:40:52Z xificurC quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-08T10:41:31Z alchemis7 quit (Quit: @) 2015-02-08T10:43:33Z taspat joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:47:46Z alchemis7 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:49:21Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:51:58Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-02-08T10:55:44Z alesguzik joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:00:53Z Natch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T11:01:50Z kuzy000_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:04:11Z krfantasy1 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:04:36Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-02-08T11:06:11Z krfantasy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T11:07:51Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:12:24Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-02-08T11:15:26Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T11:16:54Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T11:24:03Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:26:04Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:27:39Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:31:19Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T11:34:13Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:35:19Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:35:28Z scymtym__ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:36:54Z d4ryus___ is now known as d4ryus 2015-02-08T11:37:19Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-02-08T11:37:40Z playnu_com_ar joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:45:46Z _Loic_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:48:06Z alesguzik quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-08T11:48:29Z alesguzik joined #lisp 2015-02-08T11:48:48Z Shinmera quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T11:48:52Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T11:55:22Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-02-08T11:59:36Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T12:00:01Z rudolfochrist joined #lisp 2015-02-08T12:04:33Z krfantasy1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T12:04:43Z rudolfochrist quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T12:09:47Z k-stz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T12:09:48Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T12:10:55Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T12:14:41Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T12:16:47Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T12:25:29Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T12:28:58Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2015-02-08T12:29:35Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T12:29:36Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T12:29:56Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-02-08T12:32:15Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-02-08T12:41:03Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2015-02-08T12:42:54Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-08T12:43:22Z playnu_com_ar quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T12:43:27Z Guest88141 is now known as hugod 2015-02-08T12:47:35Z alesguzik quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-02-08T12:53:12Z Natch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T13:00:27Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:03:26Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T13:06:37Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T13:06:38Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T13:07:39Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:09:04Z ovenpasta joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:12:21Z Bahman quit (Quit: Ave atque vale) 2015-02-08T13:14:51Z specbot joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:14:51Z minion joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:15:03Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T13:15:04Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T13:15:46Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:20:49Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T13:21:29Z playnu_com_ar_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:21:59Z playnu_com_ar_ is now known as brkpnt 2015-02-08T13:22:48Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:24:15Z Natch quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T13:25:29Z brkpnt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T13:25:49Z brkpnt_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:28:38Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2015-02-08T13:29:13Z Natch joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:37:59Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T13:40:11Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:42:09Z LiamH joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:44:53Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T13:45:04Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-02-08T13:45:29Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T13:50:01Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:00:26Z araujo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:05:41Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:10:04Z arpunk joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:12:50Z mega1 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:13:38Z yenda: To make a rest api in cl seems so easy that I feel like I'm missing something 2015-02-08T14:14:59Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:18:25Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, etc.) 2015-02-08T14:26:06Z ehu: |3b|: I'm workin on the underlying vm. 2015-02-08T14:30:41Z ebrasca quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T14:31:53Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-08T14:32:40Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:34:09Z yeticry joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:36:42Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:37:52Z cluck joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:38:51Z yenda: you should filter the word "brazzer" on this pastebin :D 2015-02-08T14:41:35Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-08T14:45:51Z devll joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:46:29Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:47:07Z moore33 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:51:03Z yenda: If I just want my web application to be able to send json to identified users is it a good idea to use clack ? 2015-02-08T14:53:00Z brkpnt_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T14:54:52Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-02-08T14:58:51Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T15:01:04Z hiyosi: nlnn 2015-02-08T15:03:22Z someon is now known as someone 2015-02-08T15:11:39Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T15:11:46Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T15:11:59Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T15:12:57Z Aiwass joined #lisp 2015-02-08T15:13:34Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T15:14:05Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T15:14:22Z Aiwass: a/qui 2015-02-08T15:14:24Z Aiwass quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T15:17:03Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-08T15:21:01Z AeroNotix: uhh, trying to use coleslaw after a while. (ql:quickload :coleslaw) moans about :inferior-shell wanting a specific version of ASDF which is not available. Any ideas? 2015-02-08T15:21:32Z AeroNotix: I had this working at some point, because I can see in my remote's .sbclrc that I was loading an asdf file. I must've removed it by accident. 2015-02-08T15:22:01Z yenda: I think I found my first opportunity to write a macro what do you think ? : I will have to write multiple (defun A-from-B (b) (something using var *A* and parameter b)). I'm thinking a macro allow to write those with (my-macro A B) and change the function something later am I right ? 2015-02-08T15:22:48Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-02-08T15:26:52Z AeroNotix: common-lisp.net seems to not be responding, again. 2015-02-08T15:28:08Z moore33: yenda: It might be a good fit, but it's kind of hard to tell from your description. One thing I've done in cases where I needed to write a lot of similar function definitions was use MACROLET to define a temporary macro. 2015-02-08T15:32:04Z AeroNotix: H4ns: I believe it is yourself who runs common-lisp.net, no? 2015-02-08T15:32:12Z splittist: yenda: nesting the DEFUNs withing the top-level MACROLET preserves the top-levelness of the DEFUNs, although your editor may not notice. 2015-02-08T15:32:22Z splittist: s/withing/within/ 2015-02-08T15:32:24Z H4ns: AeroNotix: no, i am no longer involved with it. 2015-02-08T15:32:32Z AeroNotix: H4ns: Ah, ok. 2015-02-08T15:32:36Z H4ns: AeroNotix: ask ehu or mmommer 2015-02-08T15:32:42Z AeroNotix: ok, thanks :) 2015-02-08T15:32:53Z AeroNotix: ehu: common-lisp.net seems to be down. 2015-02-08T15:33:05Z Petit_Dejeuner: (let ((static-variable ...)) (defun func-that-has-a-static-var () )) 2015-02-08T15:33:16Z bthom joined #lisp 2015-02-08T15:37:57Z yenda: moore33: splittist: I will try think about what I'm trying to do exactly and come with a more specific explanation 2015-02-08T15:39:59Z fridim_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T15:41:37Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T15:44:11Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-02-08T15:45:45Z yenda: splittist: in the hyperspec macrolet is used inside a defun now I'm confused macros are crazy 2015-02-08T15:47:04Z Grue`: it's most common use is inside of defun 2015-02-08T15:55:40Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-02-08T15:55:41Z Ralt: yeah... otherwise you use defmacro 2015-02-08T15:56:09Z moore33: Ralt: Except in that which I am suggesting :) 2015-02-08T15:58:05Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T15:58:37Z antgreen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-08T16:00:22Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:01:10Z Grue`: that just makes it harder to debug... C-c C-m doesnt work with macrolet 2015-02-08T16:02:39Z moore33: If it's complicated enough to need debugging, then yeah, perhaps macrolet isn't the thing to use. 2015-02-08T16:05:31Z ehu: AeroNotix: yea. sorry about that. 2015-02-08T16:05:45Z ehu: AeroNotix: working on fixing that. 2015-02-08T16:05:57Z ehu: unfortunately, that seems rather complicated. 2015-02-08T16:07:25Z PuercoPop: AeroNotix: Which version of sbcl do have on your server? At some point one needed to update asdf up to 3.0.3 when using sbcl but that is no longer the case (sbcl now ships with asdf 3.1.3) 2015-02-08T16:09:21Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T16:12:08Z AeroNotix: PuercoPop: cool I'll try updating it 2015-02-08T16:13:28Z AeroNotix: ehu: what do you mean? 2015-02-08T16:13:37Z AeroNotix: is common-list.net open-source? 2015-02-08T16:16:02Z resttime joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:18:08Z smokeink quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T16:20:12Z AeroNotix: PuercoPop: did the trick 2015-02-08T16:20:13Z AeroNotix: tahnks 2015-02-08T16:24:21Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:26:14Z thodg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-08T16:27:34Z thodg joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:28:34Z nell joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:29:40Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T16:31:39Z sword` joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:32:56Z profess joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:33:18Z sword quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T16:37:58Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-02-08T16:42:48Z Harag1 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:42:49Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T16:42:59Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:47:11Z kuzy000_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T16:47:33Z kuzy000_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:48:36Z nell joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:50:38Z smith_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:51:18Z smith_: Hi guys, is it just me or is common-lisp.net down? 2015-02-08T16:51:24Z AeroNotix: smith_: it's not just you 2015-02-08T16:51:44Z smith_: I see 2015-02-08T16:51:52Z AeroNotix: /cc ehu 2015-02-08T16:56:17Z smith_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T16:57:17Z splittist: should add it to the topic 2015-02-08T16:57:46Z rtra joined #lisp 2015-02-08T16:58:14Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T16:58:33Z profess quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T16:58:53Z profess joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:00:04Z Longlius joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:01:58Z tharugrim joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:02:12Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T17:02:50Z nyef joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:03:04Z nyef: Hello all. 2015-02-08T17:03:08Z Big_G joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:03:48Z ehu: AeroNotix: I mean that while disentangling stuff in the setup, I got myself completely entangled now. 2015-02-08T17:04:05Z AeroNotix: ehu: Why is it complex? 2015-02-08T17:04:25Z ehu: because the VM stopped booting correctly. 2015-02-08T17:04:47Z Jesin joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:04:58Z AeroNotix: ehu: the host it is running on? Spin a new vm then? 2015-02-08T17:05:09Z ehu: the host still works. 2015-02-08T17:05:20Z ehu: I'm working to repair the boot process. 2015-02-08T17:05:37Z AeroNotix: ehu: I don't understand what's important about this host. Just smash it and spin a new one? 2015-02-08T17:05:45Z AeroNotix: There's no point trying to repair cloud VMs 2015-02-08T17:06:19Z ehu: there's a lot of services installed and configured. 2015-02-08T17:06:29Z ehu: I'd rather repair it 2015-02-08T17:06:31Z AeroNotix: ehu: what is used to describe the state of the system? 2015-02-08T17:06:40Z ehu: :-) 2015-02-08T17:06:40Z AeroNotix: e.g. is this not put into puppet/chef/ansible etc? 2015-02-08T17:07:06Z ehu: AeroNotix: that's a good point. 2015-02-08T17:07:10Z AeroNotix: seems like time would be better spent doing something like that, instead of caring about a single host. 2015-02-08T17:10:10Z Poenikatu joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:10:13Z Intensity joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:10:38Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-08T17:11:20Z ehu: well, that's water under the bridge, I'd say. 2015-02-08T17:11:45Z AeroNotix: Until it breaks again 2015-02-08T17:11:47Z AeroNotix: which it will. 2015-02-08T17:11:50Z ehu: suer. 2015-02-08T17:11:52Z ehu: sure. 2015-02-08T17:14:24Z Poenikatu: What has happened to the CCL function (load-gtk-libraries)? It's in the documentation but appears to be unbound. 2015-02-08T17:21:06Z Poenikatu|2 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:21:37Z Poenikatu left #lisp 2015-02-08T17:22:10Z Poenikatu|2 quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T17:22:37Z Poenikatu joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:22:37Z Poenikatu quit (Changing host) 2015-02-08T17:22:37Z Poenikatu joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:24:00Z harish joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:24:11Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:24:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:26:21Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-02-08T17:28:52Z Poenikatu: I am determined to use GTK+ with CL. Has anybody succeeded in doing so and, if so, which CL implementation and GTK+ binding did you use? 2015-02-08T17:30:46Z thatsnotjack joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:30:50Z Bike: did you do use-interface-dir first? 2015-02-08T17:35:38Z zadock joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:40:22Z rtoym quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]) 2015-02-08T17:41:35Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:44:43Z wglb joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:57:11Z minion joined #lisp 2015-02-08T17:57:36Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2015-02-08T17:57:37Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T17:59:50Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:01:08Z ehu: but for today, fixing it. 2015-02-08T18:03:06Z Lokathor_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:09:13Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T18:13:51Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-02-08T18:14:20Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2015-02-08T18:15:30Z pjb: - 2015-02-08T18:19:05Z PuercoPop: Poenikatu: https://github.com/crategus/cl-cffi-gtk/ should work on ccl too, it is being used for lispkit and cl-webkit 2015-02-08T18:22:23Z minion joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:23:02Z specbot joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:29:25Z fridim_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-08T18:30:06Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:32:37Z Pyridrym joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:33:50Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-02-08T18:35:52Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T18:40:41Z xificurC joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:41:54Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-02-08T18:46:00Z rogersm joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:46:42Z rogersm left #lisp 2015-02-08T18:46:59Z beach left #lisp 2015-02-08T18:47:37Z rogersm joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:51:32Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:54:03Z arenz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T18:58:37Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T18:59:46Z oleo is now known as Guest44597 2015-02-08T18:59:57Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:00:30Z adlai: Help! 11 nested errors. SB-KERNEL:*MAXIMUM-ERROR-DEPTH* exceeded. Backtrace for: # ; Evaluation aborted on #. 2015-02-08T19:00:33Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-08T19:00:57Z nell joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:01:30Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:03:15Z Guest44597 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-08T19:03:18Z oleo__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T19:04:59Z adlai: this was a fun one. i assumed that the specifiers in an (and ...) type would get checked left-to-right: second clause is a satisfies predicate, which assumed that its argument also met the first clause 2015-02-08T19:05:28Z adlai: so it got a type error while trying to find the pprint dispatch function, but it couldn't print the error... 2015-02-08T19:05:56Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T19:11:38Z schaueho joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:11:38Z fridim_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:11:55Z pjb: adlai: good point. 2015-02-08T19:14:16Z pjb: One could say that it's a lack of specification in CLHS, since type specifiers are not evaluated by eval, but are obviously "evaluated" by typep some evaluation rule could be good to have. 2015-02-08T19:15:26Z adlai: right, what tripped me up is that i'm so used to looking for behavior that CLHS explicitly leaves unspecified... in this case, there's just no comment on the issue, and i wasn't even aware of the assumption i was making 2015-02-08T19:16:55Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:17:53Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:21:19Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:22:02Z pnpuff quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-02-08T19:22:03Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T19:22:28Z peterhil joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:22:56Z karswell joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:24:38Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:26:07Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T19:26:36Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T19:27:34Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:27:39Z montyxcantsin joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:28:40Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:29:24Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:32:47Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:32:49Z fridim_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T19:40:42Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T19:40:59Z kcj joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:42:28Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T19:42:32Z hvxgr quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T19:44:43Z Poenikatu: PuercoPop: I've tried using the package of crategus and I agree that the examples he gives all work. Unfortunately, an interface containing 17 objects didn't work and no indication of why. No error message, no warnings. 2015-02-08T19:45:15Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T19:47:32Z Bike: the and type is defined with "denotes the set of all objects of the type determined by the intersection of the typespecs". it's not explicit about ordering, but i don't know what kind of intersectino would involve an evaluation order 2015-02-08T19:48:25Z devll quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T19:53:47Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-02-08T19:54:13Z theos joined #lisp 2015-02-08T19:54:33Z wglb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T19:56:00Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T19:56:57Z zadock quit (*.net *.split) 2015-02-08T19:56:57Z adlai quit (*.net *.split) 2015-02-08T19:59:06Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:01:39Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T20:01:55Z gendl joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:03:01Z jgrant quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T20:07:32Z wglb joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:10:04Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2015-02-08T20:10:39Z gendl joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:10:48Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-02-08T20:10:55Z gko__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-02-08T20:13:00Z hvxgr joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:13:42Z ggole quit 2015-02-08T20:14:16Z pjb: Bike: the problem is that satisfies adds a CL evaluation hook to this definition. 2015-02-08T20:14:40Z pjb: It could have been named (intersection …) instead of (and …) it would be the same problem. 2015-02-08T20:15:36Z Bike: i'm just saying iw ouldn't intuitively expect an evaluation order from what was described, same as i wouldn't from cl:every (so it's explicitly described there) 2015-02-08T20:16:14Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:16:17Z pjb: Both expectations are understandable. 2015-02-08T20:16:26Z pjb: That's the difficulty in mixing DSLs. 2015-02-08T20:16:26Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T20:17:12Z Bike: i guess. 2015-02-08T20:19:45Z theseb quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T20:21:54Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)) 2015-02-08T20:22:59Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:23:36Z yrdz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T20:28:12Z jackdaniel: where does "Lisp is not dead. It just smells funny." originates from? 2015-02-08T20:32:41Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:33:44Z yrdz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:36:52Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-08T20:37:23Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:41:26Z fridim_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:44:15Z johann quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T20:44:49Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:46:59Z pjb: jackdaniel: ask Edi, since it looks like he had that in his .sig 2015-02-08T20:48:05Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-02-08T20:48:08Z jackdaniel: pjb: you mean writing to him e-mail? 2015-02-08T20:48:36Z Big_G: What is the name of the lisp dialect that just came out that is meant for web programming? 2015-02-08T20:48:46Z jackdaniel: Big_G: clojure? 2015-02-08T20:49:02Z pjb: jackdaniel: yes. 2015-02-08T20:49:08Z Big_G: jackdaniel, That is one but I think it was developed by MIT 2015-02-08T20:49:27Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T20:50:42Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2015-02-08T20:52:30Z Grue`: so, my slime is in a weird state, (slime-busy-p) returns t, but everything, repl and all, works just fine 2015-02-08T20:52:39Z Grue`: is there a way to un-busy it? 2015-02-08T20:52:55Z Harag1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-08T20:55:59Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T21:01:05Z jackdaniel wrote to Edi, but feels weird with bugging him with such a silly thing 2015-02-08T21:02:04Z Grue`: "Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa 2015-02-08T21:02:22Z Grue`: Edi Weitz happens to be a fan of Frank Zappa 2015-02-08T21:02:26Z zacts: I like jazz 2015-02-08T21:02:42Z Bike: well, so did zappa. 2015-02-08T21:04:49Z Grue`: yay, M-x slime-reset worked, looks like I don't have to restart everything 2015-02-08T21:08:20Z ruste joined #lisp 2015-02-08T21:09:53Z zacts quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-02-08T21:10:48Z ovenpasta joined #lisp 2015-02-08T21:11:23Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-02-08T21:17:59Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-08T21:25:46Z meiji11 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T21:28:56Z alecigne joined #lisp 2015-02-08T21:36:39Z kuzy000_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T21:38:14Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T21:39:44Z analyticd joined #lisp 2015-02-08T21:45:05Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T21:45:28Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2015-02-08T21:47:09Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2015-02-08T21:48:01Z oleo__ is now known as oleo 2015-02-08T21:49:15Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T21:49:24Z ruste quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T22:02:11Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:04:10Z wglb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T22:04:25Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:06:56Z rogersm quit (Quit: rogersm) 2015-02-08T22:07:51Z analyticd quit (Quit: analyticd) 2015-02-08T22:07:52Z yrdz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T22:09:16Z yrdz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:11:10Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-02-08T22:13:56Z araujo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:15:06Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:16:30Z Big_G quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T22:16:42Z ferada: breaking your print-object methods is no fun; slime could print some replacement like # instead of nothing, or am i missing something? 2015-02-08T22:16:48Z ferada: to clarify, i mean a situation like http://paste.lisp.org/display/145709 2015-02-08T22:17:00Z Big_G joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:17:37Z pjb: It's up to the implementation, to have restarts around their calls to print-object (or to handle errors to print #) 2015-02-08T22:18:04Z pjb: Perhaps something could be done with :before :after methods, but I fail to see how. 2015-02-08T22:18:20Z Big_G quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T22:19:59Z johann quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T22:21:36Z nyef: A :around method, maybe? 2015-02-08T22:22:16Z pjb: maybe 2015-02-08T22:22:17Z ferada: it would be enough if the inspector/debugger do that though 2015-02-08T22:25:22Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-02-08T22:26:52Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2015-02-08T22:29:43Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:31:19Z ruste joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:31:37Z k-stz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-08T22:32:48Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-02-08T22:35:21Z Vutral quit (Excess Flood) 2015-02-08T22:36:02Z Xach: ferada: iirc, lispworks does something like #<> 2015-02-08T22:37:46Z Big_G joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:37:57Z jleija joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:39:11Z Big_G quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-08T22:39:32Z Big_G joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:40:16Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T22:46:46Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:51:47Z zygentoma is now known as zygentoma^kel 2015-02-08T22:54:05Z fridim_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T22:54:23Z nell joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:54:36Z ferada: Xach: right, acl gives # 2015-02-08T22:54:40Z ferada: now to implement that 2015-02-08T22:55:11Z Bike: i swear i've seen an "error while printing object" in sbcl before 2015-02-08T22:56:04Z alimiracle joined #lisp 2015-02-08T22:56:08Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T22:56:11Z alimiracle: hi all 2015-02-08T22:56:20Z alimiracle: is lisp ded?? 2015-02-08T22:56:48Z vaporatorius quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T22:56:56Z Bike: yes. rip 2015-02-08T22:57:30Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-08T22:57:32Z alimiracle: whi? 2015-02-08T22:58:05Z otwieracz: Common Lisp is generally smells funnier than Lisp. 2015-02-08T22:58:08Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-08T22:58:09Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-08T23:00:16Z alimiracle: Is lisp died and whi 2015-02-08T23:00:35Z pjb: alimiracle: http://tinyurl.com/is-lisp-dead 2015-02-08T23:00:42Z ruste quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T23:00:44Z pjb: alimiracle: yes, it is. You can /leave now. 2015-02-08T23:00:54Z ruste joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:01:01Z Xach: alimiracle: no 2015-02-08T23:01:18Z otwieracz: Xach: The worse is that I am personally not sure about this :( 2015-02-08T23:01:18Z alimiracle: if no whi? 2015-02-08T23:01:36Z pjb: "ded" and "whi" are not English word. This channel uses English. 2015-02-08T23:01:40Z ehu: alimiracle: why the question? what is it to you? 2015-02-08T23:01:43Z gmcastil joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:02:34Z nyef: "Lisp is dead. Long live Lisp!" 2015-02-08T23:03:26Z Xach: otwieracz: sounds indeed like a personal problem 2015-02-08T23:03:33Z alimiracle: for me I stil love lisp 2015-02-08T23:05:32Z Xach: alimiracle: tell me more! 2015-02-08T23:05:40Z zacts joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:06:44Z alimiracle: if god used a programming language it would be lisp 2015-02-08T23:06:46Z nyef: ... What was that about some psychology professor wanting to use Eliza as an example to his class of how NOT to do Rogerian psychotherapy? 2015-02-08T23:07:22Z alimiracle: if god used a programming language it would be lisp 2015-02-08T23:08:32Z nyef: But She didn't, it's all hardware at that level, not software. 2015-02-08T23:09:09Z Grue`: where were you when lisp was kill 2015-02-08T23:10:17Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T23:10:44Z alimiracle: if dont use lisp you go to hell 2015-02-08T23:10:56Z zygentoma^kel quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-02-08T23:11:56Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:12:21Z _Loic_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T23:15:19Z alimiracle: For God wrote in Lisp code 2015-02-08T23:15:19Z alimiracle: When he filled the leaves with green. 2015-02-08T23:15:19Z alimiracle: The fractal flowers and recursive roots: 2015-02-08T23:15:22Z alimiracle: The most lovely hack I've seen. 2015-02-08T23:15:25Z alimiracle: And when I ponder snowflakes, 2015-02-08T23:15:29Z alimiracle: never finding two the same, 2015-02-08T23:15:32Z alimiracle: I know God likes a language 2015-02-08T23:15:35Z alimiracle: with its own four-letter name. 2015-02-08T23:15:38Z alimiracle: 2015-02-08T23:15:41Z alimiracle: 2015-02-08T23:16:14Z cpc26_ joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:16:39Z ynniv joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:17:01Z ynniv: Has anyone found a serialization library that works with mocl? 2015-02-08T23:17:23Z alimiracle: I was taught assembler 2015-02-08T23:17:24Z alimiracle: in my second year of school. 2015-02-08T23:17:24Z alimiracle: It's kinda like construction work — 2015-02-08T23:17:24Z alimiracle: with a toothpick for a tool. 2015-02-08T23:17:26Z ehu quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-02-08T23:17:27Z alimiracle: So when I made my senior year, 2015-02-08T23:17:30Z alimiracle: I threw my code away, 2015-02-08T23:17:33Z alimiracle: And learned the way to program 2015-02-08T23:17:36Z alimiracle: that I still prefer today. 2015-02-08T23:17:40Z alimiracle: 2015-02-08T23:17:43Z alimiracle: Now, some folks on the Internet 2015-02-08T23:17:46Z alimiracle: put their faith in C++. 2015-02-08T23:17:48Z alimiracle: They swear that it's so powerful, 2015-02-08T23:17:51Z alimiracle: it's what God used for us. 2015-02-08T23:17:54Z alimiracle: And maybe it lets mortals dredge 2015-02-08T23:17:57Z alimiracle: their objects from the C. 2015-02-08T23:18:00Z alimiracle: But I think that explains 2015-02-08T23:18:04Z alimiracle: why only God can make a tree. 2015-02-08T23:18:07Z alimiracle: 2015-02-08T23:18:10Z alimiracle: For God wrote in Lisp code 2015-02-08T23:18:10Z cpc26 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-08T23:18:13Z alimiracle: When he filled the leaves with green. 2015-02-08T23:18:16Z alimiracle: The fractal flowers and recursive roots: 2015-02-08T23:18:18Z alimiracle: The most lovely hack I've seen. 2015-02-08T23:18:21Z alimiracle: And when I ponder snowflakes, 2015-02-08T23:18:24Z alimiracle: never finding two the same, 2015-02-08T23:18:27Z alimiracle: I know God likes a language 2015-02-08T23:18:30Z alimiracle: with its own four-letter name. 2015-02-08T23:18:34Z alimiracle: 2015-02-08T23:18:37Z alimiracle: Now, I've used a SUN under Unix, 2015-02-08T23:18:40Z alimiracle: so I've seen what C can hold. 2015-02-08T23:18:43Z alimiracle: I've surfed for Perls, found what Fortran's for, 2015-02-08T23:18:46Z alimiracle: Got that Java stuff down cold. 2015-02-08T23:18:48Z alimiracle: Though the chance that I'd write COBOL code 2015-02-08T23:18:51Z alimiracle: is a SNOBOL's chance in Hell. 2015-02-08T23:18:54Z alimiracle: And I basically hate hieroglyphs, 2015-02-08T23:18:57Z alimiracle: so I won't use APL. 2015-02-08T23:19:00Z alimiracle: 2015-02-08T23:19:04Z alimiracle: Now, God must know all these languages, 2015-02-08T23:19:07Z alimiracle: and a few I haven't named. 2015-02-08T23:19:07Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:19:10Z alimiracle: But the Lord made sure, when each sparrow falls, 2015-02-08T23:19:13Z alimiracle: that its flesh will be reclaimed. 2015-02-08T23:19:16Z alimiracle: And the Lord could not count grains of sand 2015-02-08T23:19:18Z alimiracle: with a 32-bit word. 2015-02-08T23:19:21Z alimiracle: Who knows where we would go to 2015-02-08T23:19:24Z alimiracle: if Lisp weren't what he preferred? 2015-02-08T23:19:27Z alimiracle: 2015-02-08T23:19:30Z alimiracle: And God wrote in Lisp code 2015-02-08T23:19:32Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-08T23:19:34Z alimiracle: Every creature great and small. 2015-02-08T23:19:37Z alimiracle: Don't search the disk drive for man.c, 2015-02-08T23:19:40Z alimiracle: When the listing's on the wall. 2015-02-08T23:19:43Z alimiracle: And when I watch the lightning burn 2015-02-08T23:19:46Z alimiracle: Unbelievers to a crisp, 2015-02-08T23:19:48Z alimiracle: I know God had six days to work, 2015-02-08T23:19:51Z alimiracle: So he wrote it all in Lisp. 2015-02-08T23:19:54Z alimiracle: 2015-02-08T23:19:57Z alimiracle: Yes, God had a deadline. 2015-02-08T23:20:00Z alimiracle: So he wrote it all in Lisp. 2015-02-08T23:20:04Z alimiracle: 2015-02-08T23:20:44Z ynniv: Well that’s a waste of scrollback. So, serialization in mocl? 2015-02-08T23:20:53Z ynniv: I don’t see a mocl chan 2015-02-08T23:22:27Z mishoo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T23:22:48Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:22:54Z alimiracle quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T23:22:58Z Big_G: As long as we're on the topic, why should we use lisp over another language? 2015-02-08T23:24:59Z ynniv: Big_G: why should you use any language over and other language? 2015-02-08T23:25:35Z Big_G: ynniv, Efficiency, libraries avaliabililty, enjoyability, etc. 2015-02-08T23:25:57Z ynniv: well, Efficiency, libraries avaliabililty, enjoyability, etc. 2015-02-08T23:26:47Z ynniv: It gets asked all the time, but it’s a ridiculous question because people use whatever language they like using. If you like lisp, then you use it. If you like something else, you’ll use that instead. 2015-02-08T23:27:05Z Big_G: I know. I was more poking fun at the questions than anything else 2015-02-08T23:27:10Z ynniv: Ah 2015-02-08T23:27:39Z ynniv: Slow news day 2015-02-08T23:28:03Z Big_G: Just trying to keep it interesting 2015-02-08T23:28:47Z pillton: Big_G: I have some work for you if you are bored. 2015-02-08T23:29:17Z Big_G: pillton, I'm avoiding other work right now so I may be interested 2015-02-08T23:29:37Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-02-08T23:35:56Z moore33 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-08T23:37:25Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-08T23:40:06Z ynniv: Big_G: find a binary serialization library that doesn’t use mop 2015-02-08T23:41:41Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:41:44Z pillton: Is there a name for the set of expressions which satisfy a given lambda list? i.e. DESTRUCTURING-BIND does not signal an error. 2015-02-08T23:42:00Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:43:23Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-08T23:43:48Z xificurC quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-08T23:46:41Z antgreen joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:46:52Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-08T23:47:19Z mikaelj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-08T23:49:00Z moore33 joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:49:51Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-02-08T23:51:20Z cir0x joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:51:21Z johann joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:55:40Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-08T23:57:18Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-02-08T23:57:48Z charlie quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-02-08T23:58:44Z charlie joined #lisp