2015-02-05T00:00:24Z jasom: you can make standalone executables with clisp
2015-02-05T00:00:27Z jasom: also sbcl and ccl and ecl
2015-02-05T00:00:32Z akkad: yes
2015-02-05T00:00:41Z akkad: oops, not an interrogative
2015-02-05T00:02:21Z intinig joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:02:34Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T00:02:58Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:03:20Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-02-05T00:03:23Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:03:43Z hellofunk quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:05:56Z cluck: nyef: ok, thanks for clearing that up
2015-02-05T00:07:06Z emaczen joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:09:52Z Icon__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:10:04Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:10:15Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:10:47Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:10:53Z ynniv joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:14:04Z dagnachew joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:15:11Z john_cephalopoda: What is the equivalent for a "while (<statement>) {<stuff>}" in CL?
2015-02-05T00:16:36Z nyef: (loop while (expression) do (this) (that) (and the other))
2015-02-05T00:16:41Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2015-02-05T00:17:11Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T00:17:13Z JuanitoJons quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:18:30Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T00:18:54Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:19:17Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev)
2015-02-05T00:20:02Z john_cephalopoda: Ah, there is even a function that iterates through the list. Man, awesome.
2015-02-05T00:20:07Z john_cephalopoda: dolist
2015-02-05T00:20:25Z jasom: john_cephalopoda: also (loop for item in list do ...)
2015-02-05T00:20:31Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:20:35Z emaczen: I have a class which at the moment only has slot for a function
2015-02-05T00:20:45Z john_cephalopoda: Lol, so handy. Why don't more people use CL? :D
2015-02-05T00:21:59Z jasom: john_cephalopoda: syntax is insufficiently c-like :P
2015-02-05T00:22:22Z jasom: john_cephalopoda: see also: http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html
2015-02-05T00:22:22Z emaczen: I have a method that specializes on this object and the method needs to differ slightly for the function that is in the slot variable
2015-02-05T00:22:52Z jasom: emaczen: out of curiousity, why do you have a function in a slot?
2015-02-05T00:23:04Z emaczen: jasom: Why not?
2015-02-05T00:23:10Z jasom: emaczen: okay
2015-02-05T00:24:32Z emaczen: jasom: Is this bad?
2015-02-05T00:24:42Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:24:43Z jasom: emaczen: no
2015-02-05T00:24:54Z Xach: emaczen: what form does the difference take?
2015-02-05T00:26:10Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:26:20Z Longlius joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:26:44Z emaczen: The only difference I need for different functions, is a let statement whose return value is a funcall to the function in the slot
2015-02-05T00:27:05Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:27:12Z emaczen: This is just because some of these functions will take a different number of arguments.
2015-02-05T00:27:55Z jasom: so just: (funcall (slot-value obj 'function-slot) args)
2015-02-05T00:28:05Z Pyridrym joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:28:17Z jasom: well apply in that case
2015-02-05T00:29:28Z emaczen: jasom: args is a list right?
2015-02-05T00:30:00Z jasom: emaczen: if args is a list, use apply if it's a metasyntactic representation of your actuall arguments then use funcall
2015-02-05T00:30:11Z jasom: I don't think I had decided which it was when I typed it
2015-02-05T00:30:54Z emaczen: jasom: Let me try to make this more concrete
2015-02-05T00:31:08Z emaczen: My class is a "naive bayes classifier"
2015-02-05T00:31:14Z jasom: oh, I have to go.  sorry
2015-02-05T00:31:36Z emaczen: jasom: No worries -- someone else will help :)
2015-02-05T00:32:14Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:32:37Z enitiz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:33:50Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T00:33:57Z emaczen: So, the naive bayes classifier is a family of classifiers (i.e. Gaussian naive bayes, bernoulli naive bayes ...)
2015-02-05T00:34:13Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:34:45Z pjb: john_cephalopoda: dolist is not a function that iterates thru a list.  mapc is a function that iterates thru a list.
2015-02-05T00:35:00Z emaczen: The only differences between a naive bayes classifier is which function is used for the likelihood
2015-02-05T00:35:00Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:35:27Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T00:35:42Z john_cephalopoda: pjb: What is dolist doing then?
2015-02-05T00:35:58Z emaczen: The slot in my class is for the different likelihood functions.
2015-02-05T00:36:20Z Dynasty joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:36:39Z emaczen: To be concrete, the Gaussian Naive Bayes likelihood is just he probability density function for the Gaussian distribution.
2015-02-05T00:37:06Z pjb: john_cephalopoda: dolist iterates thru a list, but it's not a function.
2015-02-05T00:37:10Z Bicyclidine: what does your method do other than use the pdf?
2015-02-05T00:37:28Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:37:44Z pjb: emaczen: so what's your question?  Do you have any question for which the answer hasn't already be given to you (ie. apply)?
2015-02-05T00:37:51Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:38:51Z ynniv joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:39:04Z emaczen: pjb: I don't think apply is sufficient -- right above the funcall, each function has to bind a certain number of variables and this is different for each naive bayes classifier
2015-02-05T00:39:25Z |3b|: emaczen: instead of a slot, you could make a subclass for each variant and have the likelihood function as a GF
2015-02-05T00:39:33Z emaczen: GF?
2015-02-05T00:39:38Z Bicyclidine: generic function
2015-02-05T00:39:43Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-02-05T00:39:48Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:39:49Z Bicyclidine: how does a function "bind variables"
2015-02-05T00:40:03Z pjb: emaczen: what do you mean that the function has to bind variables?  The function does what it has to do. Why should your method be concerned by functions having to bind anything?
2015-02-05T00:40:08Z emaczen: The let form above the funcall
2015-02-05T00:40:10Z Bicyclidine: a pdf is just R -> R, surely, are you talking about parameters?
2015-02-05T00:40:20Z pjb: emaczen: are you talking about special variables?
2015-02-05T00:40:26Z |3b|: or if you know the values that need bound, store a closure that binds them
2015-02-05T00:40:32Z emaczen: How about I do a pastebin?
2015-02-05T00:40:40Z Bicyclidine: please do. paste.lisp.org
2015-02-05T00:40:45Z emaczen: Ok
2015-02-05T00:40:51Z pjb: emaczen: It would be a saner design to pass arguments as parameters, instead of passing them thru global special variables.
2015-02-05T00:41:22Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:41:28Z pjb: emaczen: if you need to bind special variables not know at compilation time, you can use progv
2015-02-05T00:41:57Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T00:42:44Z emaczen: url: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145634
2015-02-05T00:43:05Z emaczen: Feel free to comment on lisp style and let me know if you have any other questions
2015-02-05T00:43:48Z pjb: so what's the problem?
2015-02-05T00:44:27Z emaczen: Different likelihood-fn's need different arguments
2015-02-05T00:44:32Z Bicyclidine: so what you're saying is that, e.g., you always have likelihood-fn take "nbc" and return a function, and that returned function always takes four arguments, but those four arguments vary depending on the likelihood function's identity?
2015-02-05T00:44:48Z pjb: emaczen: apply mapcar is bad: apply is restricted to call-arguments-limit which can be as small as 50.
2015-02-05T00:45:07Z Bicyclidine: yeah you could just use reduce :key there
2015-02-05T00:45:09Z pjb: emaczen: it is bad design to have different likelihood function need different arguments.
2015-02-05T00:46:00Z pjb: emaczen: you could instead use (lambda (nbc class-data xi) …)
2015-02-05T00:46:46Z emaczen: Bicyclidine: I could have a different number of arguments
2015-02-05T00:46:52Z pjb: No.
2015-02-05T00:46:56Z pjb: emaczen: it is bad design.
2015-02-05T00:47:08Z Bicyclidine: i admit i don't understand why you'd do that.
2015-02-05T00:47:15Z pjb: Unless your method can put all these arguments in a list and use apply.
2015-02-05T00:47:23Z Bicyclidine: buuuuut if you really want to, i'd, yeah, that.
2015-02-05T00:47:52Z emaczen: Everything will be the same except for the let and funcall
2015-02-05T00:48:03Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T00:48:05Z emaczen: How can I abstract them away?
2015-02-05T00:48:08Z Bicyclidine: like, have a likelihood-fn slot, and a likelihood-args-fn slot, and do (apply (likelihood-fn nbc) (funcall (likelihood-args-fn nbc) xi))
2015-02-05T00:48:18Z pjb: emaczen: I showed you!
2015-02-05T00:48:27Z pjb: using this signature: (lambda (nbc class-data xi) …)
2015-02-05T00:48:27Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:48:38Z pjb: then you let each function do their own parameter extraction.
2015-02-05T00:48:48Z Bicyclidine: that would probably be better than mine, yeah.
2015-02-05T00:49:08Z ynniv: emaczen: whats up with (let ((mapcar (lambda (cl) …))) …)?
2015-02-05T00:49:09Z pjb: Python is really shit.
2015-02-05T00:49:17Z Bicyclidine: Huh?
2015-02-05T00:49:36Z pjb: ynniv: why do you name your variable mapcar?
2015-02-05T00:49:55Z ynniv: emaczen’s paste
2015-02-05T00:50:07Z emaczen: Indentation must be off
2015-02-05T00:50:18Z pjb: yes.
2015-02-05T00:50:23Z ynniv: ah! yes, ok :-)
2015-02-05T00:50:56Z emaczen: pjb: could you expand a little more on your (lambda ... ) solution. I don't quite follow
2015-02-05T00:51:40Z pjb: emaczen: decide that all your likelihood functions will take the same arguments: the classifier object, the data loader, and the xi.
2015-02-05T00:52:13Z Bicyclidine: i don't think the likelihood actually needs the classifier (if that's nbc)
2015-02-05T00:52:17Z pjb: and therefore a function that needs val var std and mu can do what you have in your let*, and a function that needs other parameters can compute them itself, from the classifier, the data loader and the xi.
2015-02-05T00:52:44Z pjb: perhaps not.
2015-02-05T00:53:00Z emaczen: Bicyclidine: likelihood-fn is an :accessor
2015-02-05T00:53:03Z Bicyclidine: right.
2015-02-05T00:53:35Z Bicyclidine: emaczen: basically instead of a likelihood fn being whatever, in the slot you store a function that computes the likelihood from xi rather than from all those parameters.
2015-02-05T00:53:51Z emaczen: ahhh gotchya! Thanks
2015-02-05T00:53:53Z s_e quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:54:12Z edran_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T00:54:18Z edran joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:54:40Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T00:54:53Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T00:55:01Z ft joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:55:04Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:56:17Z s_e joined #lisp
2015-02-05T00:59:39Z Pyridrym quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-02-05T01:01:21Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T01:01:29Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-02-05T01:01:55Z john_cephalopoda: Hmm, it complains all the time "A proper list must not end with "1""
2015-02-05T01:02:26Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T01:02:27Z pjb: Could anybody port quicklisp to python for python stuff?
2015-02-05T01:02:34Z zRecursive joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:02:40Z pjb: john_cephalopoda: yes.  proper lists must end with NIL, not "1".
2015-02-05T01:02:47Z john_cephalopoda: ah, okay.
2015-02-05T01:02:49Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:03:09Z JokesOnYou77: john-mcaleely, you may have made a dotted list by consing onto something that was not NIL.
2015-02-05T01:03:38Z JokesOnYou77: pjb, prot quicklisp to python? Why not just use pip?
2015-02-05T01:04:06Z zRecursive left #lisp
2015-02-05T01:04:30Z zRecursive joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:04:41Z pjb: JokesOnYou77: because it doesn't work.
2015-02-05T01:04:56Z pjb: First there's a big mess with python versions.
2015-02-05T01:04:56Z Ethan- joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:05:22Z pjb: Then it seems it cannot install stuff locally, but needs sudo to modify some global directory.
2015-02-05T01:05:36Z ynniv: depends on your python install
2015-02-05T01:05:39Z JokesOnYou77: I guess I'm confused about what you're trying to do then.  If you need version-locked libraries in an environment you should use a requirements.txt file and a python virtual environment
2015-02-05T01:05:52Z pjb: ynniv: I count on debian distributors to manage it. It's still a mess.
2015-02-05T01:06:16Z JokesOnYou77: pjb, it is perfectly capable of installing locally, look up python virtual environments.
2015-02-05T01:06:23Z ynniv: Ah, python on debian is kind of a mess
2015-02-05T01:06:34Z pjb: JokesOnYou77: I'm following instructions for the project I'm trying to build and it doesn't work. You can say it's the instructions that are bad, my experience is that there are always a ton of problems with python.
2015-02-05T01:07:06Z ynniv: that’s why I’m in #lisp today ;-)
2015-02-05T01:07:36Z JokesOnYou77: meh, I'm not a huge fan of pip, so far the best library management system I've ever worked with is rvm /rails with ruby.  Jsut cd to a directory and $ bundle install and I have everythign I need
2015-02-05T01:08:06Z pjb: Oh, don't make me start with rvm and rails!
2015-02-05T01:08:27Z p_l: rvm/rbenv are a bit different than bundler itself
2015-02-05T01:08:28Z JokesOnYou77: That's somethign I'd LOVE to be able to do with lisp is create a version file for all libs to enforce version-locking on a project.
2015-02-05T01:08:30Z nyef: What was that about package managers that should be run out of town on a rail?
2015-02-05T01:08:40Z JokesOnYou77: lol
2015-02-05T01:08:45Z pjb: :-)
2015-02-05T01:08:57Z huza joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:08:57Z p_l: nyef: you mean cabal? xD
2015-02-05T01:09:05Z pjb: name one feather (tar's already taken).
2015-02-05T01:09:29Z nyef: No, no... feather obviously has to be a compression format.
2015-02-05T01:09:31Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T01:09:54Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:10:05Z p_l: fwiw, Ruby usually worked out fine for me, as long as stayed *away* from bundler ;)
2015-02-05T01:10:09Z akkad: pax?
2015-02-05T01:10:38Z p_l: pax was the posix tar name, right?
2015-02-05T01:10:47Z p_l: xar is the xml-based tar from OSX, iirc
2015-02-05T01:11:06Z JokesOnYou77: interesting, Is there a library manager that anyone is happy with?
2015-02-05T01:11:15Z akkad: pax would continue on error. unlike gtar(1)
2015-02-05T01:11:43Z ynniv: JokesOnYou77: cp -R?
2015-02-05T01:12:09Z Pyridrym joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:12:20Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:12:39Z JokesOnYou77: rofl, I was thinking more along the lines of something like pip/quicklisp/maven
2015-02-05T01:13:06Z ynniv: tongue in cheek, though bundling all your dependencies is very stable over long periods of time
2015-02-05T01:13:09Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-02-05T01:13:37Z zRecursive left #lisp
2015-02-05T01:14:50Z john_cephalopoda: Ahrg, Time is running,.. 2:15 am... bye.
2015-02-05T01:14:52Z john_cephalopoda quit (Quit: Trees can see into your soul.)
2015-02-05T01:16:12Z JokesOnYou77: Yes, but can be cumbersome.  That's why I was asking about a version-locking with quicklisp.
2015-02-05T01:16:15Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T01:17:06Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2015-02-05T01:17:19Z Xach: It's designed for that.
2015-02-05T01:17:27Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:17:37Z Xach: It's not as streamlined as I'd like, but the pieces are there to make it more streamlined.
2015-02-05T01:18:31Z Xach: During installation, or post installation, you can specify a quicklisp dist version to use instead of the latest. You can also inhibit updates after installation.
2015-02-05T01:20:38Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T01:21:23Z nyef: ... Do quicklisp updates ever happen automatically?
2015-02-05T01:21:26Z Xach: I'd like to make it so you can dump out a file that can be used to seed the install, or sync an existing install, so you can easily have the same stuff across multiple dists.
2015-02-05T01:21:41Z Xach: nyef: no. you have to type (ql:update-dist ...) or (ql:update-all-dists) to get new software.
2015-02-05T01:21:57Z Xach: nyef: otherwise it keeps everything that was current when you installed or last updated.
2015-02-05T01:22:08Z nyef: Okay, that's what I thought.
2015-02-05T01:22:28Z nyef: I'm still running a late-2013 dist at the dayjob, for example.
2015-02-05T01:22:39Z Dynasty quit (Quit: bye)
2015-02-05T01:23:12Z nyef: (If you were curious about that odd series of misses and hits on Monday, trying to find a late-2013 dist, that was probably me trying to get a second environment up and going.)
2015-02-05T01:24:17Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T01:24:40Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:25:27Z Xach: don't obsess over logs like that any more
2015-02-05T01:25:47Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:26:25Z Xach: (assoc (ql:dist-version "quicklisp") (ql:available-dist-versions "quicklisp") :test 'equal) might help if you have a 2014+ client
2015-02-05T01:26:47Z Xach: that will give you the version name and the url to install of the current installation, if you want to match it elsewhere
2015-02-05T01:27:07Z Xach: you can also of course just tar up the quicklisp directory and share it around.
2015-02-05T01:27:32Z nyef: I just looked up the canonical distinfo url or whatever it's called from that one text file in the dists/ directory.
2015-02-05T01:28:05Z Xach: that works too
2015-02-05T01:28:56Z dagnachew quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T01:29:38Z profess joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:29:40Z pillton: Bike: Is introspect-environment in quicklisp under a different name?
2015-02-05T01:30:17Z Bike: don't think so
2015-02-05T01:30:39Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T01:30:58Z pillton: Ok. No problem.
2015-02-05T01:31:00Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T01:31:23Z Bike: might need to update your dists, i can (ql:quickload :introspect-environment) fine
2015-02-05T01:32:14Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:32:53Z nell joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:36:40Z akkad: cl-packet is going to be fun
2015-02-05T01:36:58Z akkad: convert all this wireshark code to CL
2015-02-05T01:37:17Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T01:37:32Z nyef: akkad: ... and run it on Mezzano?
2015-02-05T01:37:46Z nyef: Or bash a fork of slitch into shape and use that?
2015-02-05T01:38:15Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T01:39:21Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:41:26Z lispyone joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:42:29Z pillton: Bike: I had an old dist. Thanks.
2015-02-05T01:43:25Z akkad: nyef: converting 30k lines of crap I did in c to lisp, so we can stop with the buffer overflow concerns when sniffing.
2015-02-05T01:43:59Z nyef: Oh, don't expect that merely converting to Lisp will get you away from the old overrun screw.
2015-02-05T01:45:04Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:45:23Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T01:46:17Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:47:44Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:50:40Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2015-02-05T01:52:53Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T01:53:18Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T01:59:36Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:00:17Z PinealGl1ndOptic quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:00:59Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:01:33Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-02-05T02:02:26Z harish joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:04:25Z Tristam joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:06:04Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:06:37Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:07:00Z BnMcGn joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:07:07Z Harag joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:08:09Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:08:59Z oleo is now known as Guest62867
2015-02-05T02:10:11Z BnMcGn: Is there a current maintainer for the arnesi library? Particularly the code walker/CPS portion. I've found some sort of clisp/arnesi compilation bug that's a little over my head.
2015-02-05T02:10:34Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:11:14Z Tristam quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T02:11:39Z Guest62867 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:13:00Z Tristam joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:13:07Z BnMcGn: The arnesi site looks a little decrepit.
2015-02-05T02:13:14Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:14:03Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-02-05T02:14:30Z nyef: So... recrep it?
2015-02-05T02:14:51Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T02:15:14Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:16:13Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:16:37Z Tristam quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T02:19:50Z BnMcGn: Well, the site is the least of my worries.
2015-02-05T02:19:52Z echo-area joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:20:32Z BnMcGn: I think it would take me a while to master the code walker.
2015-02-05T02:20:48Z pjb: The code walker is probably not the worst part.
2015-02-05T02:20:57Z BnMcGn: No?
2015-02-05T02:21:09Z BnMcGn: The CPS transformer?
2015-02-05T02:21:37Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T02:21:47Z Tristam joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:21:55Z BnMcGn: I just spent a few days poking through the clisp compiler and print stuff.
2015-02-05T02:22:07Z BnMcGn: Learned a lot, but not enough.
2015-02-05T02:22:12Z lispyone joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:22:35Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T02:22:58Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:23:12Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:24:33Z Puffin joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:24:49Z BnMcGn: My project, https://github.com/BnMcGn/snakes , compiles on sbcl, clozure, but won't compile-file on clisp. All the individual items will compile, the test suite runs, but it won't save some items to fasl.
2015-02-05T02:25:12Z leo is now known as leo2007
2015-02-05T02:27:08Z alchemis7 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:28:12Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:30:15Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:35:49Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:36:09Z frkout_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:36:20Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2015-02-05T02:36:27Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:37:07Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:38:41Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-02-05T02:39:33Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:40:58Z kapil__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:43:40Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T02:44:03Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:49:58Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:51:01Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:53:44Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T02:56:46Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:57:08Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T02:57:31Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T02:57:54Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:58:33Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2015-02-05T02:59:46Z meiji11 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:03:19Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T03:04:38Z chintak joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:04:54Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:06:19Z ebrasca quit (Quit: ebrasca)
2015-02-05T03:07:31Z Harag joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:10:28Z ynniv joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:10:55Z Puffin quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T03:11:02Z taspat joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:11:19Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T03:12:12Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2015-02-05T03:12:36Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:14:09Z moei joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:17:21Z JokesOnYou77: How can I get the values of all the arguments to the funciton I'm in?
2015-02-05T03:18:36Z BnMcGn: In? Like from the debugger, or from code?
2015-02-05T03:19:14Z beach joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:19:20Z BnMcGn: From code: (defun myfunc (&rest all-the-things) ...
2015-02-05T03:19:22Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2015-02-05T03:19:31Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T03:19:40Z BnMcGn: Umm... It's still dark out.
2015-02-05T03:19:46Z Bike: ohio gozaimasu
2015-02-05T03:19:55Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:19:56Z JokesOnYou77: I mean I'm putting in print statements and I wasn to get a list of all the current args without having to type them out :P
2015-02-05T03:20:05Z JokesOnYou77: good morning beach
2015-02-05T03:20:37Z Bike: JokesOnYou77: kill forward sexp on the lambda list, put it in the print statement, figure out parens and such, is what i usually do
2015-02-05T03:20:45Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T03:21:04Z JokesOnYou77: kill forward?
2015-02-05T03:21:15Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:21:17Z nyef: Hello beach.
2015-02-05T03:21:27Z Bike: JokesOnYou77: C-M-k
2015-02-05T03:22:01Z BnMcGn: Ohh... in emacs.
2015-02-05T03:22:53Z JokesOnYou77: Ahh, I'm debugging an image :P  It's hard to use emacs to figure out why arguments aren't working when given from the command line
2015-02-05T03:23:15Z billitch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-02-05T03:24:01Z Bike: well, if you're only worried about typing time an editor solution is all that comes to mind
2015-02-05T03:26:32Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:26:42Z JokesOnYou77: That's fine, I was just curios, since I know I can get the lambda list of a function, I guess I could still MAPCAR that...
2015-02-05T03:27:13Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T03:27:32Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T03:27:36Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:29:51Z manuel__ quit (Client Quit)
2015-02-05T03:31:56Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:34:07Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T03:34:30Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:36:14Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T03:39:46Z vanila quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T03:39:51Z ruste quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T03:40:27Z ruste joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:40:56Z yeticry joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:41:13Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T03:41:36Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:41:41Z msmith joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:42:35Z intinig joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:43:34Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:44:14Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, etc.)
2015-02-05T03:44:20Z chintak quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2015-02-05T03:47:19Z intinig quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T03:47:27Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T03:48:44Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:48:45Z beach: drmeister: Are you making any progress?
2015-02-05T03:49:40Z theseb joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:50:15Z TDog joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:50:24Z msmith: hi all, I'm hoping someone can provide some insight to a yason problem
2015-02-05T03:50:29Z msmith: http://paste.lisp.org/+34DG
2015-02-05T03:50:47Z theos quit (Disconnected by services)
2015-02-05T03:50:57Z JokesOnYou77: I'm trying to use DESTRUCTURING-BIND with an expression that is a function that returns a list, but all of the values are getting bound to the tirst element in the lambda list
2015-02-05T03:51:13Z theos joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:51:33Z nugnuts quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T03:52:43Z JokesOnYou77: nvm, too many parens :P
2015-02-05T03:53:04Z pillton: minion tell JokesOnYou77 about paredit
2015-02-05T03:53:08Z pillton: minion, tell JokesOnYou77 about paredit
2015-02-05T03:53:08Z minion: JokesOnYou77: please look at paredit: a set of Emacs commands, with a minor mode for convenient access to them, for editing balanced S-expressions and a number of higher-level operations on S-expressions, at <http://mumble.net/~campbell/emacs/paredit.el>; see also the #paredit channel
2015-02-05T03:53:29Z JokesOnYou77: ty
2015-02-05T03:53:37Z nyef: msmith: That's neat, but you have at least two variables involved, possibly more. Are you at least using the same versions of SWANK and yason on each system?
2015-02-05T03:54:29Z huza quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T03:54:29Z msmith: same swank yes, same yason not sure.
2015-02-05T03:54:39Z msmith: I'll have a look
2015-02-05T03:54:52Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T03:54:53Z nyef: msmith: Also, can you try it in the *inferior-lisp* buffer, so as to keep swank from doing anything crazy?
2015-02-05T03:54:56Z Pyridrym quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-02-05T03:55:20Z msmith: ok
2015-02-05T03:55:49Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:55:57Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T03:56:03Z nyef: ... The more I look at this, the more I'm thinking "different yason version".
2015-02-05T03:59:10Z Pyridrym joined #lisp
2015-02-05T03:59:26Z Lokathor_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:01:06Z Denommus joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:02:04Z msmith: yeah 0.7.2 on freebsd  0.6.6 on ubuntu
2015-02-05T04:02:38Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:02:39Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T04:03:05Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:03:13Z nyef: A little odd for functionality to break like that in the newer version...?
2015-02-05T04:03:35Z nyef: Still, it's a place to start for figuring out what's going on.
2015-02-05T04:03:40Z msmith: yeah, I've been looking for documentation
2015-02-05T04:04:00Z msmith: probably replace the new with the old on the freebsd machine for now
2015-02-05T04:06:00Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T04:06:51Z beach: nyef: So you are reviving SBCLOS?
2015-02-05T04:07:11Z nyef: beach: No. I'm hacking on Mezzano at least for the time being.
2015-02-05T04:07:24Z beach: Oh, I must have misunderstood.
2015-02-05T04:08:01Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev)
2015-02-05T04:08:22Z TDog_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:09:23Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T04:10:01Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T04:10:06Z Pyridrym quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T04:10:11Z TDog_ is now known as TDog
2015-02-05T04:10:37Z chintak joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:10:47Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:11:37Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T04:12:14Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:13:03Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime)
2015-02-05T04:14:37Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100)
2015-02-05T04:16:58Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:18:28Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T04:18:51Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:18:58Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:19:19Z theseb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T04:23:09Z resttime joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:24:44Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T04:26:10Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:26:42Z beach: So on my computer (x86-64) SBCL seems to require around 400 cycles for an operation on an #'EQ hash table.  Does that seem plausible?
2015-02-05T04:29:23Z nyef: Let's see, assuming notinline operations, function-call overhead, argument parsing...
2015-02-05T04:29:34Z nyef: ... type checking...
2015-02-05T04:29:51Z nyef: Certainly seems plausible in terms of fermi numbers.
2015-02-05T04:30:48Z nyef: Umm... And that's before you get into the possibility that there's been a GC and the entire thing needs to be rehashed.
2015-02-05T04:31:37Z beach: Right, I should make sure that there is a GC from time to time.
2015-02-05T04:33:26Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T04:33:49Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:34:33Z theseb joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:34:41Z JokesOnYou77: HAHA!!! It ran! Time to stop working :P
2015-02-05T04:37:53Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2015-02-05T04:38:51Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-02-05T04:39:28Z beach: Hmm, almost 100 cycles for SXHASH on a symbol.
2015-02-05T04:39:33Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T04:40:39Z nyef: ... That's not an EQ hash table, is it?
2015-02-05T04:40:44Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:40:52Z beach: Separate benchmark.
2015-02-05T04:41:06Z nyef: Umm... And IIRC, symbol hash values get cached.
2015-02-05T04:41:16Z beach: I am contemplating implementing the algorithm by Cliff Click.
2015-02-05T04:42:28Z beach: I would have thought they did, but 100 cycles seems a bit excessive then.
2015-02-05T04:43:09Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T04:43:55Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T04:44:48Z TDog joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:45:16Z TDog quit (Client Quit)
2015-02-05T04:45:59Z beach: Given what I know about how Click's algorithm works, it seems it would be faster to use his algorithm with SXHASH than the 400 cycles I get from a native #'EQ hash table.
2015-02-05T04:47:01Z nyef: "profiling SXHASH is hard" -- CSR, 2003-03-14
2015-02-05T04:47:08Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2015-02-05T04:47:10Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T04:47:34Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:48:47Z beach: I don't need an exact performance measure of SXHASH.  Even though it takes a bit more than I expected, it is not a lot compared to 400 cycles.  I am thinking that Click's algorithm could do better than 300 cycles per operation.
2015-02-05T04:48:52Z nyef: Hey, with the SXHASH on a symbol thing, did you declare that the symbol was a symbol?
2015-02-05T04:49:02Z beach: No.
2015-02-05T04:49:05Z beach: Hold on...
2015-02-05T04:51:18Z Intensity joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:51:20Z beach: That seems to save 10% or so.  There might be a way to make it even faster.
2015-02-05T04:51:46Z beach: I don't think it matters much for now, though.
2015-02-05T04:52:12Z nyef: Looks like there's a lazy-init cache on the symbol for the hash, and the "full" sxhash does a typecase (which involves repeated uses of typep) to get to the symbol case.
2015-02-05T04:53:16Z beach: That would slow it down a bit.
2015-02-05T04:53:28Z nyef: You'll have to pay the full cost on insert, but there's a shortcut for a gethash: If the symbol doesn't have an assigned hash you know it's not in the hash table.
2015-02-05T04:54:17Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T04:54:37Z gingerale joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:54:41Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:55:22Z beach: I see.  But that would require me to "take apart" sxhash, wouldn't it?
2015-02-05T04:55:36Z loke: Why would it take so long to do sxhash on a symbol? Shouldn't it be pretty much just the address?
2015-02-05T04:55:55Z beach: loke: No, SXHASH is required not to change when the address changes.
2015-02-05T04:56:12Z loke: But the address of a symbol can never change, can it?
2015-02-05T04:56:31Z nyef: beach: Yeah, it'd be implementation-dependent.
2015-02-05T04:56:40Z nyef: loke: A copying GC would change it.
2015-02-05T04:57:17Z beach: loke: Do you know something about the SBCL GC that I don't?
2015-02-05T04:57:18Z loke: nyef: Oh, I thought the discussion was baout SBCL
2015-02-05T04:57:32Z nyef: At which point, SBCL has a copying GC.
2015-02-05T04:57:42Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2015-02-05T04:58:19Z nyef: Also, sxhash is required to produce the same answer for SIMILAR symbols within the same implementation, even if they are in different images.
2015-02-05T04:58:39Z loke: nyef: wait what? Really?
2015-02-05T04:58:49Z beach: loke: Really!
2015-02-05T04:58:52Z nyef: clhs sxhash
2015-02-05T04:58:52Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sxhash.htm
2015-02-05T04:58:54Z loke: If so, then why on earth is an #'EQ hashtable using sxhash?
2015-02-05T04:58:57Z nyef: Read 'em and weep.
2015-02-05T04:59:04Z beach: loke: It isn't.
2015-02-05T04:59:12Z nyef: Umm... It's not. I asked that earlier, and the answer was "different benchmark".
2015-02-05T04:59:45Z loke: Ah, I missed that. Sorry about that.
2015-02-05T04:59:48Z beach: loke: You missed the context.  I am trying to see whether it is possible to beat the performance of a native SBCL #'EQ hash table by implementing Cliff's algorithm in SBCL using SXHASH.
2015-02-05T04:59:50Z BnMcGn left #lisp
2015-02-05T04:59:57Z MutSbeta joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:00:16Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T05:00:22Z loke: beach: I see
2015-02-05T05:00:47Z beach: If it is possible, that would be an amusing result.
2015-02-05T05:01:17Z loke: beach: If it's possible, I suspect (and hope) that would lead to an SBCL patch :-)
2015-02-05T05:01:28Z nyef: Umm... Also, per 3.2.4.2.2 there are also more restrictions on similarity on symbols, usually taken to meaning "may only rely on the symbol name for the hashable value".
2015-02-05T05:01:28Z beach: loke: Don't count on it.
2015-02-05T05:02:12Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T05:02:36Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:03:00Z loke: nyef: Wow. 3.2.4.2.2 for symbols seems to be way overdefined.
2015-02-05T05:03:30Z loke: Or at least, it should not be used in sxhash
2015-02-05T05:03:51Z beach: loke: It is so that it will be possible to write portable code with application-specific hash tables.
2015-02-05T05:03:53Z ynniv joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:05:17Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T05:05:43Z frkout joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:08:58Z beach: OK, perhaps today I will implement a simplified version of Cliff's algorithm, omitting the resize part and just allocating a big enough table.  I guess I'll omit CAS as well initially.
2015-02-05T05:09:21Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T05:09:43Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:10:11Z beach: It won't be realistic without CAS of course.  But I think it is best to do it without CAS initially.
2015-02-05T05:10:49Z nyef: Today, I shall start by getting some sleep.
2015-02-05T05:10:57Z beach: Good plan! :)
2015-02-05T05:11:07Z nyef: I thought so. (-:
2015-02-05T05:11:08Z burtons joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:11:13Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all)
2015-02-05T05:14:52Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2015-02-05T05:16:43Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:17:08Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T05:17:31Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:19:48Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T05:20:22Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:22:08Z drmeister: Hi everybody
2015-02-05T05:22:18Z drmeister: beach: Yes, I'm making progress.
2015-02-05T05:22:46Z nikki93__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:22:50Z nikki93 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T05:24:15Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T05:24:38Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:31:04Z nikki93__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T05:31:56Z kirin` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T05:32:20Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:34:29Z taspat` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:37:45Z loke: beach: But SBCL has CAS
2015-02-05T05:37:59Z taspat quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T05:38:21Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-02-05T05:38:55Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-02-05T05:39:07Z work_op joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:39:31Z kirin` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:41:20Z holomorph quit (Quit: holomorph)
2015-02-05T05:42:41Z nell joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:42:48Z badkins quit
2015-02-05T05:47:21Z beach: loke: Yes, but I am too lazy to figure out how to use it initially. :)
2015-02-05T05:47:32Z loke: beach: SB-EXT:CAS
2015-02-05T05:47:49Z loke: it's really simple. Takes three args: Slot, old, new. Returns the old value.
2015-02-05T05:47:51Z beach: loke: Thanks.
2015-02-05T05:48:00Z beach: drmeister: Great!
2015-02-05T05:48:36Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:48:59Z pranavrc quit (Changing host)
2015-02-05T05:48:59Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:50:53Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T05:52:03Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T05:53:34Z jasom: pjb: I don't know if you're here still, but virtualenv solves many of the issues with pip
2015-02-05T05:54:30Z jasom: pjb: quicklisp is only tractible at it's level of simplicity because there are few enough lisp libraries that "X requires a version of Y that is at least 2 years old, but no more than 3 years old" is fairly rare
2015-02-05T05:55:14Z cluck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T05:59:15Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2015-02-05T05:59:38Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T05:59:47Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T06:01:33Z frkout_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:02:17Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2015-02-05T06:05:11Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T06:07:31Z pranavrc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T06:10:12Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:11:29Z Lokathor quit (Disconnected by services)
2015-02-05T06:11:33Z Lokathor_ is now known as Lokathor
2015-02-05T06:11:56Z Lokathor_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:15:06Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T06:18:32Z pnpuff joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:19:17Z pnpuff left #lisp
2015-02-05T06:22:52Z burtons quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T06:23:17Z echo-area quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T06:23:52Z echo-area joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:24:18Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-02-05T06:27:18Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:30:18Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T06:30:44Z frkout joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:35:04Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T06:36:39Z frkout_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:36:57Z jacsib quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T06:37:04Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-02-05T06:38:02Z jacsib joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:38:46Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T06:41:37Z sdemarre joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:44:27Z hvxgr quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T06:45:23Z josteink quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T06:54:22Z smokeink joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:54:51Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev)
2015-02-05T06:55:23Z nell joined #lisp
2015-02-05T06:57:21Z Green_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:08:42Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:11:12Z cdtaylor joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:12:08Z psy_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:13:20Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev)
2015-02-05T07:13:32Z beach left #lisp
2015-02-05T07:15:03Z hvxgr joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:15:56Z Green_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T07:16:17Z nell joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:16:33Z Green_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:16:34Z chintak quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2015-02-05T07:16:48Z chintak joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:20:42Z Green_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T07:22:51Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T07:23:06Z Icon__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:25:39Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T07:26:17Z Shinmera joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:26:17Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev)
2015-02-05T07:28:09Z huza joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:30:25Z Green_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:30:30Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:32:26Z Beetny joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:32:27Z pranavrc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T07:33:34Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:34:16Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T07:35:09Z joneshf-laptop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T07:35:27Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:37:34Z meiji11 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T07:37:52Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:38:23Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T07:38:40Z theseb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T07:39:25Z Soft quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T07:49:36Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:49:49Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:50:33Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:50:33Z Mon_Ouie quit (Changing host)
2015-02-05T07:50:33Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:52:22Z psy_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T07:52:43Z Soft joined #lisp
2015-02-05T07:57:05Z Icon__ quit
2015-02-05T08:00:14Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:01:20Z Cymew joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:01:46Z d4ryus_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:04:25Z jasom: okay, I may have to go through weblocks and fix all of the warnings if I'm going to continue to use it
2015-02-05T08:04:53Z d4ryus___ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T08:05:28Z Harag joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:05:39Z MutSbeta quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T08:05:53Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:05:58Z devll joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:06:26Z cadadar joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:07:10Z jasom: And yes, I did mean "warning" not "style-warning" as in "let's setf an unknown variable where it really looks like we wanted a lexical binding"
2015-02-05T08:08:30Z sdemarre left #lisp
2015-02-05T08:11:31Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T08:12:51Z Guthur` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:13:21Z zadock joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:16:00Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:16:56Z Green_ quit
2015-02-05T08:17:01Z huza quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T08:18:45Z bullone joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:19:01Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:19:13Z kuzy000_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:20:02Z bullone left #lisp
2015-02-05T08:21:18Z Cymew: Going to be the new mantainer, are you? ;)
2015-02-05T08:21:36Z MutSbeta joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:21:52Z jasom: No, I would just like C-x C-c to work when I make a change
2015-02-05T08:23:00Z Grue`: do you already have a codebase that depends on it? cause there are a lot of web frameworks to choose now
2015-02-05T08:23:59Z jasom: Grue`: sort-of.  I actually like the interface that weblocks provides; I could implement it on top of clack or something perhaps
2015-02-05T08:25:14Z arenz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:30:04Z huza joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:36:07Z jasom: And adding features has been fairly easy, and fixing bugs not too hard.  Right now it's a fairly straightforward CRUD application, so porting if I get too frustrated ought not be hard
2015-02-05T08:36:43Z zacharias joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:39:29Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:40:06Z rick-monster quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-02-05T08:41:24Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime)
2015-02-05T08:41:41Z redeemed joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:43:25Z chintak quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2015-02-05T08:43:40Z chintak joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:44:54Z chintak quit (Client Quit)
2015-02-05T08:45:11Z chintak joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:52:46Z rick-monster joined #lisp
2015-02-05T08:57:44Z Ralt: hi
2015-02-05T08:58:09Z gabriel_laddel quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T08:58:52Z Ralt: I'm trying to make (defstrict), a defun with strict typing
2015-02-05T08:58:57Z Ralt: but my macro-fu is failing me
2015-02-05T08:59:11Z Ralt: the API would be something like this: (defstrict foo ((string bar)))
2015-02-05T08:59:19Z Ralt: and this is what I came up with: http://pastebin.com/wAY6pkLK
2015-02-05T08:59:53Z Ralt: but it doesn't work because it expands to (defun foo ((first (rest string bar)))), and same for declare...
2015-02-05T09:00:01Z Ralt: not sure how to nest this :/
2015-02-05T09:00:35Z Shinmera: Declarations are not for type checking by the way. They are for optimisations only, and the compiler may not warn you if you breach them.
2015-02-05T09:00:53Z Ralt: oh
2015-02-05T09:01:08Z Ralt: I guess it does compilation errors for simple types only?
2015-02-05T09:01:18Z |3b|: completely up to implementation
2015-02-05T09:01:27Z Ralt: ah...
2015-02-05T09:01:33Z Shinmera: It may not error at all and just assume that the type will always be what you declare it to be.
2015-02-05T09:01:36Z Shinmera: use
2015-02-05T09:01:36Z |3b|: could just compile code assuming it is correct, in which case you are worse off than without them (for safety at least)
2015-02-05T09:01:38Z Shinmera: clhs check-type
2015-02-05T09:01:38Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_check_.htm
2015-02-05T09:01:40Z Shinmera: instead
2015-02-05T09:01:47Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-02-05T09:02:10Z Ralt: fair enough
2015-02-05T09:02:19Z Ralt: the defstrict still has the same issue tho :P
2015-02-05T09:02:58Z |3b|: so don't quote things you want evaluated?
2015-02-05T09:03:14Z hellofunk joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:03:41Z |3b|: collect (first rest arg) and `(declare (type ,(first arg) ,(first (rest arg))))
2015-02-05T09:03:43Z Shinmera: The way you're doing it will also break further declarations if you'd do something like (defstrict foo ((string a)) "bla" (declare (ignore a))) since you are not allowed to have the docstring in-between declaration forms, only either before or after declarations.
2015-02-05T09:05:04Z Ralt: |3b|: oooh thanks... I see
2015-02-05T09:05:12Z Shinmera: Also, (first (rest a)) is (second a)
2015-02-05T09:05:13Z Ralt: Shinmera: good to know
2015-02-05T09:06:01Z Shinmera: And going by the convention set forth by DEFMETHOD you should set the type after the variable name.
2015-02-05T09:06:43Z Ralt: fair.
2015-02-05T09:07:05Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T09:07:46Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T09:08:06Z Ralt: thank for all your comments :)
2015-02-05T09:08:16Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:08:30Z adlai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:09:32Z psy_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:09:57Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T09:10:20Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:10:40Z psy_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:10:42Z devll quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T09:12:29Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T09:13:37Z psy_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:14:41Z josteink joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:15:24Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2015-02-05T09:17:38Z J_4096 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:17:45Z protist joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:18:02Z antonv joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:18:47Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T09:19:00Z protist: anyone familiar with the error in LTK that gives the Tcl/Tk error: missing close-brace?
2015-02-05T09:19:16Z protist: it seems to be a Tk escaping error when dealing with text fields
2015-02-05T09:20:49Z kapil__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-02-05T09:23:35Z intinig joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:23:53Z pranavrc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T09:24:34Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:29:16Z adlai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:36:22Z Joreji joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:36:34Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:38:27Z josteink quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T09:38:45Z josteink joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:40:27Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T09:40:38Z J_4096 quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-02-05T09:48:09Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T09:48:12Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T09:56:31Z radioninja joined #lisp
2015-02-05T09:57:59Z intinig joined #lisp
2015-02-05T10:02:20Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T10:03:11Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T10:03:53Z john_cephalopoda joined #lisp
2015-02-05T10:03:54Z john_cephalopoda: Hi
2015-02-05T10:05:14Z Lokathor_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T10:05:49Z Lokathor quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T10:17:36Z egp_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T10:20:53Z egp_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T10:22:11Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-02-05T10:23:47Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T10:25:43Z adlai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T10:27:58Z antonv joined #lisp
2015-02-05T10:28:01Z |3b|: are implementations allowed to expand macros again when inlining a function? for example if FOO is declaimed INLINE and uses macro BAR, is it allowed to expand BAR again when compiling functions that call FOO
2015-02-05T10:29:07Z |3b|: sbcl, ccl, clisp seem to do so
2015-02-05T10:30:30Z |3b|: not sure i'd expect it to (despite possibly having run into it before now that i think about it), but can't think of anything in the spec allowing/disallowing it
2015-02-05T10:30:43Z loke: |3b|: Yes
2015-02-05T10:30:54Z loke: Expansion can happen any time
2015-02-05T10:31:27Z loke: Since the compiler is allowed to ignore inlining, and macroexpansion can happen at runtime, I'd say it's pretty much allowed
2015-02-05T10:31:30Z |3b|: except after compilation, and it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect FOO to have been at least minimally compiled
2015-02-05T10:31:56Z loke: 3b: But you can't assume that compilation (even minimally) will actually happen
2015-02-05T10:32:07Z |3b|: i can if i called COMPILE
2015-02-05T10:34:55Z echo-area quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T10:36:41Z selat joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:02:06Z loke: 3b: No
2015-02-05T11:02:12Z loke: Compile can be a no-op
2015-02-05T11:03:25Z |3b|: it is required to expand macros
2015-02-05T11:03:39Z akkad: clhs abort-callback
2015-02-05T11:03:39Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for abort-callback.
2015-02-05T11:03:43Z akkad: ugg
2015-02-05T11:04:08Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2015-02-05T11:04:17Z akkad: specbot http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw61/CAPRM/html/capiref-5.htm
2015-02-05T11:05:13Z loke: 3b: AFAIK, there is no guarantee that anything at all will happen when you do COMPILE
2015-02-05T11:05:33Z |3b|: akkad: if it did know about it, it would be under capi not clhs
2015-02-05T11:05:41Z |3b|: clhs compile
2015-02-05T11:05:41Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp.htm
2015-02-05T11:06:17Z Ragnaroek joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:06:19Z akkad: |3b| thanks
2015-02-05T11:06:21Z |3b|: see the link to "compiled function" in glossary
2015-02-05T11:07:20Z |3b|: expanding macros is pretty much the only thing it is required to do (and i guess resolving load-time values)
2015-02-05T11:08:27Z paradoja joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:12:36Z paradoja quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T11:16:03Z chintak quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2015-02-05T11:16:15Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
2015-02-05T11:19:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:19:22Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2015-02-05T11:19:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:20:32Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, etc.)
2015-02-05T11:24:38Z john_cephalopoda quit (Quit: Trees can see into your soul.)
2015-02-05T11:27:16Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T11:30:57Z Alfr joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:35:59Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T11:41:54Z stepnem joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:44:28Z keen__________53 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T11:46:32Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T11:46:38Z keen__________53 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:49:43Z yrk joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:50:14Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2015-02-05T11:50:14Z yrk joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:50:18Z intinig joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:50:22Z malice joined #lisp
2015-02-05T11:55:02Z malice: Hey guys. I've wanted to make a macro, so that I can write whatever code I want in its body, in postfix notation, and it will change it to prefix notation. However, I'm not that good with macros(gotta begin with something, eh?).
2015-02-05T11:55:15Z malice: Here's what I've got, idea is pretty simple, I guess
2015-02-05T11:55:15Z malice: http://paste.lisp.org/+34DR
2015-02-05T11:55:35Z malice: However, it won't run, it kills my sbcl. I did something wrong, but I don't know what. Any help, please?
2015-02-05T11:56:01Z H4ns: malice: why do you want this to be a macro?
2015-02-05T11:58:10Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T11:58:10Z H4ns: malice: your sbcl dies because you're using the macro inside of your macro expansion.
2015-02-05T11:58:49Z H4ns: malice: but the important question really is why you're trying to write this as a macro
2015-02-05T12:02:53Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:03:54Z malice: H4ns, I thought macros were meant to change your code at compilation time, so I wanted to make it a macro so that I can wrap whole postfix-lisp code file in it, and it'll become prefix-lisp, automagically.
2015-02-05T12:04:58Z intinig joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:05:58Z Shinmera: You can indeed do that, but your macro does something very different.
2015-02-05T12:07:36Z billitch joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:07:58Z malice: That's why I'm asking for a bit of help.
2015-02-05T12:08:06Z Grue`: malice: it seems like it would get stuck on NIL
2015-02-05T12:08:14Z Grue`: because (listp nil) is true
2015-02-05T12:08:50Z fantazo joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:09:34Z ramus quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T12:09:44Z Shinmera: malice: Just try (macroexpand '(reverse-list (1 2 3 +)))
2015-02-05T12:10:00Z Shinmera: The result of that is the code that would be used in place of the macro after it is expanded.
2015-02-05T12:10:21Z malice: Okay.
2015-02-05T12:10:34Z malice: Grue`: right, but in my test cases there wasn't NIL
2015-02-05T12:11:34Z malice: Oh. So I should evaluate this one.
2015-02-05T12:11:36Z Grue`: and now that I macroexpanded it, I notice that let and loop should be outside the backquote
2015-02-05T12:12:29Z malice: yes.
2015-02-05T12:14:24Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:18:59Z Shinmera: malice: In case you're interested in how I'd write that macro http://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/8Z#
2015-02-05T12:19:21Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T12:19:26Z jackdaniel: Shinmera: doesn't work w/o js
2015-02-05T12:20:12Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:21:36Z Shinmera: jackdaniel: Works just fine without JS for me.
2015-02-05T12:21:45Z jackdaniel: and it doesn't traverse tree, just reverses top list
2015-02-05T12:21:59Z jackdaniel: s/reverses/processes/
2015-02-05T12:22:03Z paradoja joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:22:11Z Shinmera: Sure, but if you want to traverse you need a code-walker.
2015-02-05T12:22:29Z jackdaniel: :)
2015-02-05T12:22:45Z jackdaniel: Shinmera: maybe it's my netsurf - it doesn't render well some pages
2015-02-05T12:22:46Z john_cephalopoda joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:23:01Z Shinmera: Try a hard-refresh. Some people don't get the CSS properly sometimes.
2015-02-05T12:23:27Z john_cephalopoda left #lisp
2015-02-05T12:23:47Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T12:23:53Z paradoja left #lisp
2015-02-05T12:26:29Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T12:28:29Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:30:14Z Grue`: malice: also I thought of another possible bug, dotted lists/general cons-based structures are listp, but you can't use loop with them
2015-02-05T12:30:39Z Grue`: also there can be recursive structures, but they're unlikely to be encountered in source code
2015-02-05T12:31:41Z malice: Yeah, I see my approach was pretty bad.
2015-02-05T12:32:09Z malice: I was a bit mistaken about postifx as a first thing, Shinmera's code is lot cleaner and looks like does its job pretty well.
2015-02-05T12:32:29Z Grue`: well, reversing only proper lists is a good idea, because if you reverse every cons, proper lists transform into a horrifying cons tower
2015-02-05T12:32:58Z malice: yeah
2015-02-05T12:32:59Z Shinmera: As jackdaniel mentioned, it only does it for the direct forms of POSTFIX. If you'd want to translate inner forms as well you need a code-walker to handle all sorts of constructs that you may encounter.
2015-02-05T12:33:38Z malice: And you couldn't do that with recursive definition?
2015-02-05T12:33:54Z malice: Ah, probably not, because of progn, right?
2015-02-05T12:34:11Z Shinmera: You could of course just do (postfix ((postfix 5 3 +) 2 *))
2015-02-05T12:34:24Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T12:34:35Z Shinmera: But it requires explicit wrapping of each form you want to reverse.
2015-02-05T12:34:37Z Shinmera: *(postfix (5 3 +))
2015-02-05T12:38:17Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:39:45Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T12:40:22Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T12:42:13Z malice: I'll look into that.
2015-02-05T12:42:32Z gingerale joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:42:42Z malice: I wanted to show to my friend how cool Lips is, and wanted to gather few examples - and thought that changing postfix to prefix wouldn't be that hard
2015-02-05T12:42:44Z malice: :v
2015-02-05T12:43:15Z Shinmera: Writing your own FOR loop macro always managed to impress people so far.
2015-02-05T12:43:23Z Shinmera: Not a difficult exercise either.
2015-02-05T12:43:51Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T12:43:57Z malice: That's a nice idea.
2015-02-05T12:44:25Z malice: Do you mean something like C++'s for, or rather Python's for?
2015-02-05T12:45:00Z malice: (for (x 0) (< x 10) (1+ x) (body)) ; Something like that?
2015-02-05T12:45:26Z Shinmera: I forget what the differences are between them. I meant something like for(int i; i=0; i<=10){..} => (for (i 0 10) ..)
2015-02-05T12:46:00Z shizhz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:46:08Z Shinmera: or (for (i 0 (<= i 10)) ..) if you want an explicit test.
2015-02-05T12:46:19Z Grue`: (for (x 0) (< x 10) (1+ x) (body)) is very similar to what do already offers
2015-02-05T12:46:49Z shizhz left #lisp
2015-02-05T12:46:52Z jackdaniel: malice: anaphoric macros impressed me alot ;p
2015-02-05T12:46:59Z Shinmera: My goodness I just realized I forgot what the C-for looked like.
2015-02-05T12:47:33Z Shinmera: Anyway, point is, there's many a way to model a similar thing with a  macro. Just do what you think would look best/most convenient.
2015-02-05T12:47:54Z jackdaniel: Grue`: i'd dmake it more like (for ((x 0) (< x 10) (1+ x)) body*)
2015-02-05T12:48:17Z Tristam joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:49:11Z jackdaniel: s/dmake/make/
2015-02-05T12:50:32Z Grue`: either way, it's just a DO knockoff
2015-02-05T12:51:04Z dim: (loop for x from 0 to 10 do ...)
2015-02-05T12:51:12Z dim: or see about iterate if you want to avoid loop
2015-02-05T12:51:24Z dim: https://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/
2015-02-05T12:51:51Z Grue`: dim: the idea is to demonstrate the power of macros, by making a new control construct apparently
2015-02-05T12:52:02Z dim: ah, ok, ignore me then ;-)
2015-02-05T12:52:11Z jackdaniel: ,þ
2015-02-05T12:52:12Z dim: I would implement while and until
2015-02-05T12:52:24Z dim: (while (condition) ...)
2015-02-05T12:52:34Z jackdaniel: hmph, i think nice idea, to show adventage over c++ would be implement ie named while
2015-02-05T12:52:36Z dim: -> (loop while cond do ,@body)
2015-02-05T12:52:43Z Grue`: most of my macros end up being (def-something ....) style
2015-02-05T12:52:44Z enitiz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:52:58Z Shinmera: dim: Dangerous. Symbols might leak into LOOP constructs.
2015-02-05T12:53:24Z jackdaniel: (while (:name xxx (> x 3)) (bla-bla) (break 'xxx))
2015-02-05T12:53:36Z jackdaniel: s/break/return/
2015-02-05T12:53:40Z ebrasca quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T12:53:48Z jackdaniel: s/return/return-from/
2015-02-05T12:53:51Z jackdaniel: :(
2015-02-05T12:54:18Z Grue`: implement continue in loop ;)
2015-02-05T12:54:23Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2015-02-05T12:54:31Z Alfr quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T12:54:46Z jackdaniel: i often miss named-break statement in c
2015-02-05T12:55:02Z jackdaniel: like jumping two loops up
2015-02-05T12:56:33Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:00:35Z splittist: (loop named xxx ... ) (:
2015-02-05T13:00:55Z ebrasca quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-02-05T13:02:47Z Xach: jackdaniel: many loop constructs have implicit tagbodies. you can stick labels in anywhere and jump to them.
2015-02-05T13:03:11Z Xach: If you make a looping macro it is a good idea to copy that style.
2015-02-05T13:03:13Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:03:36Z jackdaniel: Xach: i know, i was just suggesting malice, how could she impress her friend
2015-02-05T13:04:00Z jackdaniel: since i work much with c code, and i miss this funcitonality, i tought it might impress him ;]
2015-02-05T13:04:24Z jackdaniel: s/it/this/
2015-02-05T13:04:42Z Xach: oh, i misread
2015-02-05T13:07:11Z malice: Hey, jackdaniel
2015-02-05T13:07:19Z jackdaniel: o/
2015-02-05T13:07:22Z jackdaniel: :-)
2015-02-05T13:07:25Z malice: I'm not sure if malice is she in english, but I'm definitely male!
2015-02-05T13:07:33Z jackdaniel: oh, im sorry!
2015-02-05T13:07:36Z malice: ^^
2015-02-05T13:07:39Z jackdaniel: :p
2015-02-05T13:08:40Z malice: But now I realized how you could have imagined me to be girl who wants to pick up some guy with my uber-lisp-skills
2015-02-05T13:08:46Z malice: And that's disturbing
2015-02-05T13:08:50Z malice: Also, funny.
2015-02-05T13:12:13Z jackdaniel: are there any girls in common lisp community anyways?
2015-02-05T13:13:00Z gko__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:13:43Z Xach: Yes.
2015-02-05T13:14:01Z Xach: And boys.
2015-02-05T13:14:21Z psy_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T13:15:35Z pranavrc quit
2015-02-05T13:16:12Z eudoxia: https://twitter.com/RainerJoswig/status/563319896864722944
2015-02-05T13:16:16Z urandom__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:16:16Z eudoxia: i wish i could read japanese
2015-02-05T13:16:19Z ramus joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:17:24Z Grue`: but you can, with the help of http://ichi.moe! (shameless plug)
2015-02-05T13:17:48Z eudoxia: Grue`: is it better than google translate?
2015-02-05T13:18:10Z Grue`: it has better segmenting algorithm, it doesnt actually translate
2015-02-05T13:19:58Z ramus quit (Read error: No route to host)
2015-02-05T13:24:34Z ghard: Life’s much easier in Finnish. Pronouns are gender-neutral ;)
2015-02-05T13:25:46Z jackdaniel: it's harder to translate Finnish into something else then
2015-02-05T13:25:59Z ghard: It makes for awkward sentences yes.
2015-02-05T13:26:18Z ghard: If gender of the subject is important (which it more often isn’t.)
2015-02-05T13:26:41Z shizhz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:27:24Z ghard: So I think generally the pros are bigger than cons.
2015-02-05T13:27:45Z ghard: (no pun intended ;) )
2015-02-05T13:30:07Z ramus joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:32:01Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:38:02Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-02-05T13:40:55Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:41:59Z intinig joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:44:06Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:44:08Z ASau` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:47:09Z Puffin joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:48:09Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T13:48:09Z Puffin is now known as BitPuffin
2015-02-05T13:48:31Z shizhz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-02-05T13:49:56Z lispyone joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:51:30Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T13:55:59Z ehu joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:05:58Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T14:08:22Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T14:10:03Z nyef joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:10:13Z nyef: G'morning all.
2015-02-05T14:10:27Z jackdaniel: o/
2015-02-05T14:10:37Z camm` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:10:48Z salva quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T14:11:11Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:11:19Z salva joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:14:45Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T14:16:31Z ebrasca1 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:17:21Z ebrasca quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T14:17:29Z harish joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:21:21Z chintak joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:21:22Z EvW joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:21:29Z tsumetai quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T14:21:50Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:22:56Z chintak quit (Client Quit)
2015-02-05T14:24:25Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-02-05T14:25:21Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:25:41Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:25:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2015-02-05T14:25:41Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:26:25Z malice quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T14:27:08Z nell joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:28:22Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T14:29:27Z pjb joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:31:28Z tsumetai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:31:49Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2015-02-05T14:31:54Z ASau` is now known as ASau
2015-02-05T14:31:57Z pjb: -
2015-02-05T14:33:04Z fantazo joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:33:21Z Kruppe joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:35:33Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-02-05T14:42:39Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T14:42:43Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:43:01Z oleo joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:44:53Z taspat`` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:45:19Z psy_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:48:01Z enitiz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T14:48:39Z taspat` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T14:51:18Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev)
2015-02-05T14:51:42Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-02-05T14:53:33Z badkins joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:53:49Z enitiz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:55:06Z nell joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:55:15Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T14:55:45Z LiamH joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:56:24Z splittist: I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Google's translation of that Japanese article approaches gibberish except for phrases like "the back-end ad delivery server"
2015-02-05T14:57:31Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:58:01Z Grue`: yes, google translation is dreadful for many languages
2015-02-05T14:58:09Z antonv joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:58:14Z cluck joined #lisp
2015-02-05T14:59:27Z Cymew: I'm actually surprised it is as good as it is...
2015-02-05T15:02:27Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T15:05:51Z antonv` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:05:53Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:05:53Z oleo is now known as Guest11037
2015-02-05T15:06:23Z Guest11037 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T15:06:29Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T15:06:54Z oleo__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T15:08:16Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:09:46Z intinig joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:12:25Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:14:01Z schaueho joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:14:33Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T15:16:52Z Lokathor joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:17:02Z Lokathor_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:20:14Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-02-05T15:20:29Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:20:54Z rhllor joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:21:09Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:24:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Client Quit)
2015-02-05T15:25:54Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:26:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Client Quit)
2015-02-05T15:27:18Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2015-02-05T15:33:28Z Guthur` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T15:36:07Z JuanitoJons quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T15:36:32Z faheem_: I have a question about the title of this SO question:
2015-02-05T15:36:34Z faheem_: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9796353/writing-common-lisp-code-that-executes-from-the-command-line-but-not-inside-the
2015-02-05T15:36:49Z faheem_: Title: "Writing Common Lisp code that executes from the command line, but not inside the interpreter"
2015-02-05T15:37:27Z faheem_: I've been told off for using the term "interpreter". Would it be better to use REPL? So, "inside the REPL", "in the REPL", "on the REPL"?
2015-02-05T15:37:43Z faheem_: Or is there some other term that would be better?
2015-02-05T15:38:10Z jackdaniel: repl  is a loop
2015-02-05T15:38:24Z jackdaniel: how do you say: im inside the loop or in the loop?
2015-02-05T15:38:33Z jackdaniel is not sure, thats why i don't answer directly :D
2015-02-05T15:38:36Z faheem_: jackdaniel: i thought it was an interactive thingy?
2015-02-05T15:38:38Z faheem_: jackdaniel: ok
2015-02-05T15:38:43Z jackdaniel: repl - read eval print loop
2015-02-05T15:38:51Z faheem_: jackdaniel: yes, i know.
2015-02-05T15:38:57Z faheem_: not just loop.
2015-02-05T15:39:07Z faheem_: anyone else care to chime in?
2015-02-05T15:39:10Z jackdaniel: brown-haired cat is a brown, haired or a cat?
2015-02-05T15:39:20Z faheem_: or should that be weigh in?
2015-02-05T15:39:35Z faheem_: jackdaniel: all of the above. :-)
2015-02-05T15:39:51Z jackdaniel: hmph, object you are talking about is a cat
2015-02-05T15:39:55Z jackdaniel: not a brown, neither a haired
2015-02-05T15:40:11Z faheem_: jackdaniel: i'm missing your point, sorry.
2015-02-05T15:40:15Z jackdaniel: :-(
2015-02-05T15:40:32Z faheem_: anyway, is REPL the right term to use here? interpreter probably isn't.
2015-02-05T15:40:37Z dlowe: perhaps "not inside the interpreter" is simply unnecessary
2015-02-05T15:40:56Z dlowe: "Writing Common Lisp code that executes from the command line" is straightforward
2015-02-05T15:41:20Z Cymew: faheem_: What's your question?
2015-02-05T15:41:36Z splittist: "Writing Common Lisp forms that only execute when run as a script"?
2015-02-05T15:42:45Z Cymew: How to phrase a question showing you don't know if cl implementations are intepreted or compiled?
2015-02-05T15:43:02Z Xach: http://xach.com/rpw3/articles/i7Cdnbqv38dpMNfXnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d%40speakeasy.net.html is a bit from rob warnock on the topic
2015-02-05T15:45:05Z Cymew: Good stuff there
2015-02-05T15:48:55Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T15:49:37Z faheem_: dlowe: your suggested version changes the meaning of the question. Though perhaps with the word "only" added it would be Ok.
2015-02-05T15:50:07Z faheem_: Cymew: the question is how to rephrase that question title more correctly.
2015-02-05T15:50:17Z Cymew: ok I see
2015-02-05T15:50:54Z faheem_: When running something on the command line, could one be considered to be in the REPL?
2015-02-05T15:50:58Z faheem_: I'm assuming not.
2015-02-05T15:51:35Z faheem_: dlowe: no, i think that even the word only would not do it.
2015-02-05T15:51:50Z mood: faheem_: Yes, you could.
2015-02-05T15:51:56Z faheem_: or maybe it does. i'm confused
2015-02-05T15:52:12Z faheem_: mood: hmm
2015-02-05T15:52:48Z mood: faheem_: The question is basically how to detect the "--script mode" of SBCL
2015-02-05T15:53:01Z faheem_: mood: yes. but not just for SBCL.
2015-02-05T15:54:06Z splittist: There are lots of things you might be able to do from the command line.
2015-02-05T15:55:39Z jackdaniel: faheem_: consider cl-launch
2015-02-05T15:55:49Z jackdaniel: I'm using it, and works great
2015-02-05T15:56:03Z jackdaniel: http://ix.io/gaJ/common-lisp
2015-02-05T15:56:24Z faheem_: jackdaniel: ok. you could answer the question accordingly. though I'm guessing few here use SO, or SE.
2015-02-05T15:56:51Z jackdaniel: what is so/se?
2015-02-05T15:57:02Z Xach: stack overflow/stack exchange
2015-02-05T15:57:37Z jackdaniel: oh, that makes sense
2015-02-05T15:58:59Z toors quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2015-02-05T16:00:58Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T16:01:16Z faheem_: i rest my case.
2015-02-05T16:01:20Z faheem_: :-)
2015-02-05T16:02:25Z EvW joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:06:33Z Patzy quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-02-05T16:06:38Z scymtym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T16:06:42Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:06:51Z scymtym_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T16:08:29Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-02-05T16:08:33Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T16:10:50Z doobi-sham-95717 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:11:43Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T16:12:21Z jlongster joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:14:37Z pjb: splittist: it's all nice and good that google uses matching translations, but they could at least perform some basic gramatical NLP.  It cannot even translate correctly the adjective positions from French to English!
2015-02-05T16:15:57Z Harag1 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T16:16:48Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-02-05T16:17:13Z pjb: faheem_: that would depend on what you call the command line!
2015-02-05T16:17:42Z faheem_: pjb: unix command line? sometimes also called the shell.
2015-02-05T16:17:53Z pjb: From the stackoverflow question, it seems they mean the shell.  The shell is itself a REPL.
2015-02-05T16:18:05Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2015-02-05T16:18:11Z oGMo: pjb: not really, it doesn't P
2015-02-05T16:18:15Z pjb: Well more exactly a REL, since it doesn't print usually the result of the commands (it leaves the command print output themselves).
2015-02-05T16:18:31Z pjb: Read a command, Evaluate a command, Loop.
2015-02-05T16:18:34Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:18:53Z jgrant quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T16:19:02Z lispyone joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:19:12Z oGMo: also you could call your running lisp from the shell :P
2015-02-05T16:19:20Z oleo__ is now known as oleo
2015-02-05T16:20:09Z pjb: So indeed, s/inside the interpreter/in the Lisp REPL/ could be more correct.
2015-02-05T16:20:54Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2015-02-05T16:21:04Z pjb: So the question is how one use the shell REPL instead of the Lisp REPL to evaluate lisp expressions.
2015-02-05T16:21:12Z splittist: oGMo: something to call swank from the command line might be fun. I propose the name Sublime.
2015-02-05T16:21:21Z oGMo: splittist: heh
2015-02-05T16:21:41Z oGMo: splittist: shameless promo, https://github.com/rpav/ScriptL :P
2015-02-05T16:22:02Z oGMo: it doesn't call swank, mostly because it'd be more work
2015-02-05T16:22:23Z pjb: splittist: do you mean, a shell REPL slime?
2015-02-05T16:22:55Z oGMo: calling swank from the commandline is possible, it's just not necessary
2015-02-05T16:23:03Z splittist: pjb: I wasn't really thinking of the L part of REPL
2015-02-05T16:23:10Z pjb: slime eval '(+ 1 2)' ; slime macroexpand-1 '(cond ((= 1 a) :yay))'
2015-02-05T16:23:57Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T16:24:12Z oGMo: you could do that with emacsclient -e or whatnot
2015-02-05T16:24:35Z theseb joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:24:37Z oGMo: probably more useful since you'd get the result as something you could inspect
2015-02-05T16:25:19Z oGMo: though probably not practically useful, since you have emacs right there already, and you could just load the thing to evaluate in a buffer :P
2015-02-05T16:26:15Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2015-02-05T16:27:56Z redeemed quit (Quit: q)
2015-02-05T16:28:05Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:28:43Z ehu joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:31:47Z burtons joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:31:55Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:35:31Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T16:37:03Z theos quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T16:40:37Z holomorph joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:41:52Z theos joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:43:59Z pjb: Also, google translate is idiotic: it believes a sentence is finished because there's a newline!
2015-02-05T16:45:07Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:45:41Z Zhivago: Perhaps your interface does, but Google translate considers full stops, etc.
2015-02-05T16:46:35Z splittist: oGMo: ScriptL looks fun, indeed!
2015-02-05T16:47:37Z Pyridrym joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:48:35Z rhllor quit (Quit: rhllor)
2015-02-05T16:50:29Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T16:50:42Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2015-02-05T16:52:52Z pjb: Zhivago: try it.  compare fr->en "La maison \n blanche est grande." vs. "La maison blanche est grande."
2015-02-05T16:53:22Z pjb: Also, it's dumb to ignore uppercase. "La Maison Blanche est grande." is not the same as "La maison
2015-02-05T16:53:22Z pjb: blanche est grande."
2015-02-05T16:54:04Z Zhivago: Which interface are you using?
2015-02-05T16:54:21Z pjb: https://translate.google.com/#fr/en/La maison%0Ablanche est grande.
2015-02-05T16:55:21Z Zhivago: If you're using that interface, just take out the newlines. :)
2015-02-05T16:56:36Z pjb: Yes.  Perhaps I should try Watson. It seems to be able to translate too for the languages I'm interested in right now.
2015-02-05T16:58:21Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-02-05T16:58:55Z Zhivago: It might be more intelligent. Afaik, google translate is all about finding minimum energy solutions in stitching parallel text.
2015-02-05T16:59:20Z Zhivago: Which is one reason that English to Japanese translation reallly sucks.
2015-02-05T16:59:52Z arenz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T16:59:57Z selat quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2015-02-05T17:00:07Z Pyridrym quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-02-05T17:00:22Z Pyridrym joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:02:14Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T17:02:27Z Ragnaroek quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T17:06:54Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:08:06Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-02-05T17:08:41Z cadadar joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:08:46Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T17:09:11Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T17:09:12Z beach joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:09:19Z beach: Good evening everyone!
2015-02-05T17:10:14Z nyef: Hello beach.
2015-02-05T17:10:49Z mhi^ left #lisp
2015-02-05T17:11:37Z zadock joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:12:28Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T17:13:07Z beach: I wasn't able to beat native SBCL #'EQ hash tables with Cliff Click's technique + native SXHASH. :(
2015-02-05T17:14:01Z nyef: Well, that's good and bad I suppose. Did you at least learn something interesting from the experience?
2015-02-05T17:14:37Z beach: Nah, I wasn't persistent enough to do that.  I'll pick it up again sometime in the future.
2015-02-05T17:15:24Z beach: Right now I am busy trying to finish my papers before the ELS deadline.
2015-02-05T17:18:37Z beach: nyef: On a different subject:  What would be easier, give Mezzano a better compiler or turn SBCL into an OS and add NQ-CLIM to it?
2015-02-05T17:19:06Z sheilong joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:19:07Z harish joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:19:13Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:19:38Z arenz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:19:44Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:20:31Z lispyone joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:21:14Z josemanuel joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:21:49Z nyef: Easier? You'll keep momentum up a lot more easily if you start from Mezzano. You might try to graft the two together, porting Python to Mezzano.
2015-02-05T17:22:59Z nyef: I also get the distinct feeling that there are some major performance wins to be had in Mezzano even before dealing with the compiler.
2015-02-05T17:23:13Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-02-05T17:23:19Z nyef: (cough, cough, grab a lock on EVERY allocation? WTF?)
2015-02-05T17:23:51Z beach: I see.
2015-02-05T17:24:02Z oGMo: locking allocator? heh
2015-02-05T17:26:01Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T17:26:36Z lispyone joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:26:58Z beach: nyef: You are making an important observation.  It is not always the solution that requires the least effort (all other things equal) that is the best.  Incremental solutions are often preferable even though the total effort is greater.
2015-02-05T17:27:34Z EvW joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:28:32Z MutSbeta quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-02-05T17:28:44Z ghard quit (Quit: ghard)
2015-02-05T17:29:28Z Petit_Dejeuner: "Which is one reason that English to Japanese translation reallly sucks." relevant http://readevalprint.tumblr.com/post/96866606738/my-little-transliterator-cant-be-this-clos
2015-02-05T17:34:37Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:34:51Z Grue`: that's my blog!
2015-02-05T17:35:49Z Grue`: which reminds me, I haven't posted anything in a while
2015-02-05T17:39:38Z MutSbeta joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:41:01Z Pyridrym quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-02-05T17:41:20Z froggey_ is now known as froggey
2015-02-05T17:42:51Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-02-05T17:42:58Z Joreji joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:43:01Z froggey: nyef: there's probably a whole orchard of low-hanging fruit that can be fixed
2015-02-05T17:43:46Z nyef: froggey: Yes. Yes, there is. Some of which is on my list.
2015-02-05T17:43:59Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2015-02-05T17:44:03Z nyef: Which reminds me, do you have any thoughts on documentation?
2015-02-05T17:44:15Z froggey: the locking allocator is there because I've not gotten around to implementing per-thread heaps or anything clever like that
2015-02-05T17:44:51Z froggey: not really. github provides a project wiki, but I don't know how suitable that'd be. I'm open to suggestion
2015-02-05T17:45:18Z nyef: For now, I just created a doc/internals/ directory and stuck a text file in it.
2015-02-05T17:46:08Z froggey: that's fine by me
2015-02-05T17:46:32Z nyef: https://github.com/abridgewater/Mezzano/blob/documentation/doc/internals/object-model.txt
2015-02-05T17:47:12Z scymtym joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:51:15Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-02-05T17:51:19Z jasom: any idea why cl+ssl suddenly can't manage to find libssl.so?
2015-02-05T17:53:02Z yenda joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:53:09Z nyef: "suddenly"?
2015-02-05T17:53:19Z nyef: What did you change?
2015-02-05T17:53:37Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T17:53:54Z yenda: hello everyone
2015-02-05T17:54:17Z enitiz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:58:01Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T17:58:39Z resttime joined #lisp
2015-02-05T17:59:47Z jasom: nyef: I rebooted
2015-02-05T18:02:46Z ynniv joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:02:48Z Pyridrym joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:03:19Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T18:03:39Z faheem_: jasom: hey
2015-02-05T18:05:23Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-02-05T18:05:33Z nyef: jasom: So, any deferred updates might have gone through?
2015-02-05T18:07:08Z jasom: nyef: perhaps, or if e.g. /etc/profile changed
2015-02-05T18:07:47Z jasom: if I use (sb-alien:load-shared-object "/usr/lib/libssl.so") I get an error: libcrypto.so.1.0.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory.
2015-02-05T18:07:52Z jasom: faheem_: hi
2015-02-05T18:08:31Z faheem_: jasom: so, still testing clasp?
2015-02-05T18:08:45Z jasom: faheem_: not currently, busy with other stuff
2015-02-05T18:08:54Z faheem_: jasom: ok
2015-02-05T18:09:02Z spanter: Hello, I am new to lisp and have a question regarding Macros. What is the standard way to ensure macros are defined and compiled before they are used. In C if I defind a function before another function the compiler will pick it up. However that doesn't seem to be the case in lisp. The only way I have solved the problem is by creating a project and putting all the macros in a seperate file and then add that as a dependency. Am I missing something?
2015-02-05T18:09:46Z hellofun` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:09:58Z jasom: spanter: if defmacro appears as a top-levl form, it will be available for further on in the file
2015-02-05T18:10:22Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T18:10:37Z hellofunk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T18:10:41Z jasom: however, defun that are before the defmacro might not be available at macro-expand time
2015-02-05T18:10:45Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:11:02Z spanter: Jasom- yes that appears to be the case when I am using lisp and SLIME. However when I load the file with sbcl --load test.lisp the macros are not compiled first even though they are in the file first.
2015-02-05T18:11:49Z jasom: spanter: can you paste a testcase to http://paste.lisp.org ?
2015-02-05T18:12:17Z jasom: "If a defmacro form appears as a top level form, the compiler must store the macro definition at compile time, so that occurrences of the macro later on in the file can be expanded correctly. Users must ensure that the body of the macro can be evaluated at compile time if it is referenced within the file being compiled."
2015-02-05T18:12:19Z jasom: clhs defmacro
2015-02-05T18:12:19Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmac.htm
2015-02-05T18:12:53Z jasom: spanter: they need to not just be first, but also be a toplevel form
2015-02-05T18:12:56Z jasom: clhs 3.2.3.1
2015-02-05T18:12:57Z specbot: Processing of Top Level Forms: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bca.htm
2015-02-05T18:13:17Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:14:27Z spanter: http://paste.lisp.org/+34E1.
2015-02-05T18:15:22Z spanter: http://paste.lisp.org/+34E2.
2015-02-05T18:15:53Z spanter: The two files above are what I had to do to get it to work
2015-02-05T18:16:08Z Grue`: what was the error?
2015-02-05T18:16:19Z spanter: If I move the macros "debug" and "get-selector" to the main file then the macros are not expanded.
2015-02-05T18:16:20Z jasom: spanter: which comes first to get it to not work?
2015-02-05T18:16:36Z spanter: If I merge the two files together
2015-02-05T18:17:00Z spanter: And put the macros at the top then they are not expanded when I load it with sbcl --load
2015-02-05T18:17:22Z jasom: defpsmacro doesn't define a macro
2015-02-05T18:17:33Z jasom: or at least not in the defmacro sense
2015-02-05T18:17:40Z spanter: AHHH ok... mabye thats what the problem is
2015-02-05T18:17:58Z Grue`: what is defpsmacro even?
2015-02-05T18:18:07Z spanter: It is from the parenscript library
2015-02-05T18:18:15Z Grue`: ah
2015-02-05T18:18:20Z spanter: https://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/reference.html#section-macros
2015-02-05T18:18:28Z jasom: it sets up a hash-table; you can probably get around this by putting the proper eval-when around the defpsmacro, though I would probably ask the ps devs why they didn't do so themselves
2015-02-05T18:18:30Z spanter: I just assumed they behaved like regular macros
2015-02-05T18:18:37Z jasom: spanter: M-. is your friend
2015-02-05T18:18:47Z spanter: You guys rock!!!
2015-02-05T18:18:50Z dlowe: I think separating your macros is a a decent idea anyway. I have a different directory that the main src/ directory depends on
2015-02-05T18:19:13Z badkins quit
2015-02-05T18:19:14Z spanter: So seperating macros is a good way to develop lisp programs?
2015-02-05T18:19:28Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T18:19:39Z dlowe: I merely offer it as a possibility
2015-02-05T18:19:53Z dlowe: There are plenty of lisp programs that don't do it
2015-02-05T18:20:07Z jasom: spanter: it depends on who you ask; it's a reasonable style.
2015-02-05T18:20:15Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:20:22Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2015-02-05T18:20:40Z jasom: asdf lets you set up dependencies quite easily, so you have a lot of options
2015-02-05T18:20:59Z spanter: jasom dlowe Thanks so much. Learning lisp has been a blast. I feel like I am back in college again!
2015-02-05T18:21:15Z dlowe: but if you change a macro, you'll need to update all the files that use it. Also, you can parallelize compilation more easily if you put all your compiler side-effects in one place.
2015-02-05T18:21:28Z jasom: dlowe: do you use poiu?
2015-02-05T18:22:11Z dlowe: jasom: I don't have any projects that would benefit, though I once did
2015-02-05T18:24:23Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:28:27Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T18:29:16Z froggey: nyef: that looks pretty good. two problems though: 1) character attributes are in bits 25-28. 2) conses are never allocated in the general area. they can be allocated in the pinned/wired areas, which are distinct from the general area
2015-02-05T18:30:53Z nyef: froggey: On the first, good call. I've been having trouble counting nybbles recently. On the second, I'm trying to distinguish between the cons area and all other areas. Do you have a better idea for terminology there?
2015-02-05T18:31:22Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:32:46Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-02-05T18:33:28Z froggey: not sure, I'll think about it
2015-02-05T18:34:15Z chintak joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:35:11Z froggey: dynamic-extent conses (in the stack area) use the same headerless representation as the cons area, so that makes it more complicated
2015-02-05T18:37:23Z nyef: Also, I'd like to get rid of the cons area entirely.
2015-02-05T18:37:37Z froggey: hmm. if dx conses had a header, then I wouldn't need the address mark bit for stack-allocated objects. the GC could use them mark bit in the object header instead and I could ditch the stack aliasing hack
2015-02-05T18:37:56Z nyef: ... Wha?
2015-02-05T18:38:09Z nyef: Oh, I -SO- need to understand what's going on with the GC.
2015-02-05T18:38:28Z nyef: (On my list, but after paged memory management.)
2015-02-05T18:38:36Z froggey: it's definitely the oldest and cruftiest code there
2015-02-05T18:39:15Z nyef: Even more so than cold-generator?
2015-02-05T18:39:53Z froggey: definitely. you should see what the cold-generator replaced
2015-02-05T18:39:55Z nyef: Oh! And, speaking of, is there any documentation on what the bootloader is expecting from the system image and what it provides?
2015-02-05T18:40:09Z Soft quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev)
2015-02-05T18:40:20Z ynniv joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:40:26Z zacharias joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:40:31Z nyef: Having cleaned up a few things in SBCL's genesis, I don't know that I SHOULD see that...
2015-02-05T18:41:21Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2015-02-05T18:41:32Z Pyridrym quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-02-05T18:42:21Z Soft joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:42:50Z nyef: Oh, and while I sortof understand what the pinned area does, I don't really understand why it's there. What's the point?
2015-02-05T18:43:46Z froggey: no documentation there either, I'm afraid. I put the bootloader source up as well, but that's not documentation
2015-02-05T18:44:11Z froggey: it's there because I couldn't figure out how to mix pinned objects with a moving collector
2015-02-05T18:44:24Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T18:44:28Z nyef: Why do you need to have pinned objects?
2015-02-05T18:45:08Z Pyridrym joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:45:46Z JokesOnYou77 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2015-02-05T18:45:47Z froggey: moving functions around seems really hard, especially when some of them implement the gc/interrupt handlers/etc
2015-02-05T18:46:39Z nyef: Is it just the functions, or other things as well?
2015-02-05T18:47:02Z nyef: interrupt handlers would be wired, surely?
2015-02-05T18:47:52Z froggey: oh right, I'm getting confused. in memory the wired area is a subset of the pinned area
2015-02-05T18:48:48Z froggey: aside from functions, I don't think there's anything that needs to be pinned but not wired
2015-02-05T18:49:29Z nyef: And functions only really need pinning because moving them is hard?
2015-02-05T18:49:40Z froggey: yeah
2015-02-05T18:49:43Z yenda: Does it affect performances to use CLOS over structures and structures overs simple datatypes ?
2015-02-05T18:51:19Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-02-05T18:51:37Z nyef: So, if we can relocate functions, or use some other mechanism to relegate them to a non-moving heap space, the pinned area itself can go away.
2015-02-05T18:52:32Z nyef: And the address mark bit is more of a "this pointer has been scanned" attribute than a "this object is live" attribute?
2015-02-05T18:52:37Z Bicyclidine: could you use ravenbrook's GC? has plenty of provision for multiple areas with different regimes, and running without libc
2015-02-05T18:53:01Z nyef: Bicyclidine: Isn't it also written in C or something?
2015-02-05T18:53:14Z jasom: Bicyclidine: I didn't know you could use that without libc
2015-02-05T18:53:15Z Bicyclidine: yeah.
2015-02-05T18:53:18Z froggey: nyef: yes, but what's the difference between the pinned area and "a non-moving heap space"?
2015-02-05T18:53:54Z Bicyclidine: jasom: http://www.ravenbrook.com/project/mps/master/manual/html/topic/plinth.html
2015-02-05T18:53:55Z nyef: froggey: We can define the semantics somewhat differently.
2015-02-05T18:54:01Z Bicyclidine: i have no idea why they named it that, though
2015-02-05T18:54:31Z jasom: Bicyclidine: that's cool
2015-02-05T18:54:37Z nyef: Bicyclidine: Seems fairly obvious to me why they named it that.
2015-02-05T18:54:48Z nyef: It's a pretty cute name for such a thing, really.
2015-02-05T18:54:55Z jasom: Bicyclidine: it's the foundation, makes sense to me
2015-02-05T18:55:14Z cadadar quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T18:56:00Z pjb joined #lisp
2015-02-05T18:56:18Z froggey: the address mark bit is used as a "has been scanned" bit for stack-allocated objects, and for the general/cons areas it divides memory into oldspace & newspace. also it's really badly named
2015-02-05T18:57:10Z nyef: froggey: Also, if the only things that go into the pinned space are functions, it simplifies the normal allocation path.
2015-02-05T18:58:30Z gko__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-02-05T18:59:47Z nyef: froggey: Can you confirm that the character codes are all unicode code points?
2015-02-05T19:00:12Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-02-05T19:00:30Z froggey: confirmed. I've defined a few in a private use area, but they all fall in the unicode range
2015-02-05T19:00:42Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev)
2015-02-05T19:02:09Z nyef: Okay, that's the documentation for CHARACTER fixed, then.
2015-02-05T19:02:30Z nyef: I'll put the commit together this evening.
2015-02-05T19:07:57Z nyef: froggey: Is the kboot repository on your github the correct loader?
2015-02-05T19:08:19Z froggey: yeah
2015-02-05T19:08:57Z froggey: interesting bits are in source/loaders/mezzanine.c and source/arch/x86/loaders/enter.S
2015-02-05T19:08:59Z nyef: Okay, that should give me enough to go on in that direction for now.
2015-02-05T19:10:21Z xan_ quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2015-02-05T19:12:24Z playnu_com_ar joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:14:18Z playnu_com_ar quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T19:14:51Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:14:51Z Mon_Ouie quit (Changing host)
2015-02-05T19:14:51Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:17:47Z cadadar joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:21:44Z beach left #lisp
2015-02-05T19:22:29Z lispyone joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:25:49Z tharugrim joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:26:33Z Ragnaroek joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:31:33Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:31:39Z a20150205 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:32:07Z ehu joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:36:21Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T19:38:43Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-02-05T19:44:26Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T19:47:15Z eni_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:49:58Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T19:52:40Z Vutral joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:53:16Z agam joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:55:59Z radioninja joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:56:09Z Ragnaroek_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T19:57:21Z Ragnaroek quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T19:57:32Z Ragnaroek_ is now known as Ragnaroek
2015-02-05T19:59:11Z BeLucid_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T19:59:14Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T20:01:54Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T20:04:08Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T20:05:06Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:07:00Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:07:17Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T20:08:53Z BeLucid joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:10:18Z enitiz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:13:24Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:15:48Z protist quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T20:17:10Z ruste quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T20:19:05Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:21:08Z sirangOoolongTea joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:25:14Z vdamewood joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:26:33Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T20:27:03Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T20:34:06Z bb010g joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:36:11Z eni_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T20:43:06Z ejbs joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:45:39Z terabyte joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:51:32Z xificurC joined #lisp
2015-02-05T20:58:03Z enitiz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T20:58:15Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T20:59:05Z enitiz joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:04:13Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T21:07:18Z ruste joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:10:48Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T21:22:03Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T21:27:56Z J_4096 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:34:25Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-02-05T21:35:49Z johs quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T21:37:36Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:38:54Z johs joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:39:24Z kuzy000_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T21:45:18Z francogrex joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:45:43Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:46:05Z rhllor joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:46:26Z selat joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:49:40Z ahungry_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-02-05T21:49:56Z selat quit (Client Quit)
2015-02-05T21:50:04Z smokeink joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:54:42Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T21:55:15Z lispyone joined #lisp
2015-02-05T21:57:25Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:00:32Z cdtaylor quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T22:02:43Z a20150205 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:03:05Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2015-02-05T22:03:55Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:08:41Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:11:08Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:11:27Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:12:23Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:12:33Z ejbs` joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:14:49Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:15:35Z yrk quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.50.1))
2015-02-05T22:15:53Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:17:43Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:18:10Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T22:18:28Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:18:42Z Ragnaroek quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T22:18:47Z Mon_Ouie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T22:19:02Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T22:19:04Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:19:04Z Mon_Ouie quit (Changing host)
2015-02-05T22:19:04Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:19:19Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:19:25Z JokesOnYou77 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:19:28Z JokesOnYou77: Hi all.
2015-02-05T22:19:33Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:19:41Z holomorph left #lisp
2015-02-05T22:19:49Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T22:20:09Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:20:41Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T22:20:51Z oleo: ello ello
2015-02-05T22:20:58Z JokesOnYou77: I'm trying to (mapcar '#read-from-string (list "(1 2 3)")) but I get Radix NIL seen for #R - should be a fixnum between 2 and 36.   [Condition of type CONDITIONS:SIMPLE-READER-ERROR] ?
2015-02-05T22:21:00Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:21:46Z oleo: yeah
2015-02-05T22:22:18Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2015-02-05T22:22:22Z ejbs` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T22:22:43Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T22:23:11Z oleo: mine works....
2015-02-05T22:23:19Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:24:00Z Grue`: JokesOnYou77: I get the same error
2015-02-05T22:24:09Z edgar-rft: JokesOnYou77: try #'read-from-string instead of '#read-from-string
2015-02-05T22:24:22Z Grue`: oh
2015-02-05T22:24:33Z JokesOnYou77: LMAO that was it
2015-02-05T22:25:00Z JokesOnYou77: yep, that would do it.  Can't believe it didn't say unknown function though, odd
2015-02-05T22:25:11Z JokesOnYou77: thank you
2015-02-05T22:25:56Z oleo: oh hahaha
2015-02-05T22:26:03Z a20150205 joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:26:13Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:26:15Z PuercoPop: JokesOnYou77: it is because of this: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhj.htm
2015-02-05T22:27:00Z JokesOnYou77: AHH! it was some kind of format directive, how odd.
2015-02-05T22:27:08Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T22:27:08Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T22:27:08Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-02-05T22:27:43Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T22:27:54Z PuercoPop: it is not a format directive (it is not part of a the string you pass to format)
2015-02-05T22:28:02Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:28:03Z Grue`: I wonder why it's parsed as #(number)r when there's nothing in front of r
2015-02-05T22:28:36Z minion joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:28:37Z specbot joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:28:54Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T22:29:13Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:29:52Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-02-05T22:30:09Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:30:15Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:32:57Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:33:27Z chintak quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2015-02-05T22:36:27Z innertracks joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:36:51Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:37:09Z francogrex left #lisp
2015-02-05T22:38:29Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: Client Quit)
2015-02-05T22:39:54Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T22:41:14Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2015-02-05T22:44:14Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2015-02-05T22:47:53Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:49:14Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-02-05T22:54:03Z camm` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:55:20Z taspat`` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T22:55:36Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。)
2015-02-05T22:59:00Z rhllor quit (Quit: rhllor)
2015-02-05T23:00:02Z rhllor joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:00:16Z ebrasca1 quit (Quit: ebrasca1)
2015-02-05T23:01:13Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:04:02Z hellofun` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:04:05Z Longlius joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:04:53Z rhllor quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:08:56Z a20150205 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2015-02-05T23:09:44Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:11:27Z mmathers: akkad: did you ever get it to build on harlequin?
2015-02-05T23:14:13Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:16:01Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec)
2015-02-05T23:16:30Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:16:45Z xificurC quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:16:55Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:17:26Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:19:30Z akkad: mmathers: no. I opened a ticket.
2015-02-05T23:19:42Z akkad: mocl won't build it either
2015-02-05T23:19:54Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:21:13Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:22:01Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:22:33Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-02-05T23:23:25Z cdtaylor joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:23:35Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:24:47Z terabyte quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-02-05T23:25:47Z burtons quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:25:49Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:26:16Z kephra quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:26:21Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:27:19Z Bicyclidine quit (Client Quit)
2015-02-05T23:28:13Z kephra joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:31:59Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:33:34Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:33:48Z J_4096 quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-02-05T23:37:31Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:38:05Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: lifeform experiment disappeared because something crashed)
2015-02-05T23:38:58Z fe[nl]ix: luis-: you are good spirited today
2015-02-05T23:43:03Z Xach: where?
2015-02-05T23:44:14Z jgrant joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:45:56Z emaczen joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:46:46Z fe[nl]ix: Xach: https://github.com/cl-babel/babel/issues/22#issuecomment-73153146
2015-02-05T23:46:58Z Bike: Grue`: because of the way dispatch macro characters work is all.
2015-02-05T23:47:04Z fe[nl]ix: I would have replied much more rudely
2015-02-05T23:48:39Z joga quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-02-05T23:50:10Z EvW joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:51:45Z pjb: JokesOnYou77: (ufnction read-from-string) ?
2015-02-05T23:53:36Z tokenrove: a couple of noob questions since i've been out of it so long: is buildapp (still) the preferred way to deliver a binary with ccl on windows?  how is sbcl under windows (32-bit) these days, including ffi?
2015-02-05T23:56:41Z axion: i have very limited experience with sbcl/windows. all i know is my game, developed on linux, can be saved to an executable lisp image in windows sbcl and work flawlessly (cfi for sdl/opengl)
2015-02-05T23:56:49Z axion: cffi rather
2015-02-05T23:57:45Z tokenrove: axion: are you using threads?  32-bit executable?  are you using just SDL or also one of the SDL helper libraries that drags in a bunch of other libraries (like SDL_ttf or similar)?
2015-02-05T23:57:46Z nell joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:58:23Z tokenrove: (that's great news, btw)
2015-02-05T23:58:32Z axion: tokenrove: i am using SDL2 to be specific, and one of its helper libs, sdl2kit...which is threaded afaik
2015-02-05T23:58:59Z axion: i do not use any sdl extension libraries
2015-02-05T23:59:15Z Ethan- joined #lisp
2015-02-05T23:59:29Z axion: instead i use png-read for image support, and perhaps cairo in the future for text
2015-02-05T23:59:51Z hiyosi joined #lisp