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2015-01-09T00:22:59Z dim: must be too late, I'm lost. Postmodern: (pomo:query "select '$1'" 1)
2015-01-09T00:23:08Z dim: that's failing with Database error: Incorrect number of parameters given for prepared statement .
2015-01-09T00:23:11Z dim: I don't see why
2015-01-09T00:23:15Z dim: any tip?
2015-01-09T00:24:16Z akkad: (pomo:query (format nil "select ~A" 1))
2015-01-09T00:24:32Z dim: I specifically want to avoid that
2015-01-09T00:24:54Z dim: I want to benefit from the parse/bind protocol of PostgreSQL wherein I'm protected against SQL injection
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2015-01-09T00:31:46Z |3b|: dim: try without '' ?
2015-01-09T00:32:56Z |3b|: (pomo:query "select $1=1" 1) => ((T))
2015-01-09T00:33:15Z dim: Database error 42P18: could not determine data type of parameter $1
2015-01-09T00:35:19Z dim: Postmodern isn't filling in the argument data types OIDs
2015-01-09T00:35:27Z dim: well I'll figure something else
2015-01-09T00:36:03Z |3b|: yeah, don't know what to do about that part :/
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2015-01-09T00:38:04Z dim: yeah well, using dollar quoting with magic random identifier instead
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2015-01-09T00:39:16Z dim: (let ((random-char (code-char (+ (random 26) (char-code #\A))))) (format nil "select $~c$~a$~c$" random-char whatever random-char))
2015-01-09T00:39:23Z dim: note that random-char could actually be a string
2015-01-09T00:39:34Z dim: I might even take 3 of them actuall
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2015-01-09T00:41:27Z dim: comment on table byte is $BRTXK$let's try commenting$BRTXK$
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2015-01-09T00:41:29Z dim: I feel safer
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2015-01-09T00:41:33Z |3b|: looks like "select $1::bigint" works
2015-01-09T00:45:09Z dim: well doesn't work with a COMMENT query
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2015-01-09T03:29:46Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2015-01-09T03:32:29Z Oladon: Morning beach
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2015-01-09T03:36:50Z akkad: morning beach!
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2015-01-09T03:41:16Z nyef: Good evening everyone!
2015-01-09T03:41:25Z beach: Hey nyef.
2015-01-09T03:41:31Z beach: Back from the Boston Lisp meeting?
2015-01-09T03:41:35Z nyef: Yes.
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2015-01-09T03:41:41Z nyef: Good fun was had.
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2015-01-09T03:41:48Z beach: I imagine.
2015-01-09T03:42:17Z nyef: And on the train back I managed to implement TRANSFORM-REGION and UNTRANSFORM-REGION for +NOWHERE+.
2015-01-09T03:42:30Z beach: Nice :)
2015-01-09T03:42:45Z beach: nyef: How long is the ride?
2015-01-09T03:43:05Z nyef: It varies, especially since I have to take two trains from where we were.
2015-01-09T03:43:30Z nyef: I think it came to about an hour fifteen or so this time?
2015-01-09T03:43:39Z nyef: Maybe an hour and a half.
2015-01-09T03:43:42Z nyef: Something like that.
2015-01-09T03:44:27Z beach: nyef: For some reason I had your name spelled Alistair, but I fixed it now.  I guess it is a common mistake.
2015-01-09T03:44:51Z nyef: Yeah, there are a number of variant spellings.
2015-01-09T03:44:57Z nyef: I've seen one with a D, for example.
2015-01-09T03:45:01Z beach: I know, I read up! :)
2015-01-09T03:45:41Z beach: So did you see my FFI version of COUNT with :FROM-END T?
2015-01-09T03:45:50Z nyef: That I did not yet.
2015-01-09T03:46:28Z beach: I am very proud of it. :)  It is not production code.  Just meant for a paper.  It is faster than SBCL :FROM-END NIL. :)
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2015-01-09T03:47:57Z nyef: tt2() ?
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2015-01-09T03:48:23Z beach: I thought I replaced that.  Where did you find it?
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2015-01-09T03:49:22Z nyef: I might be looking back in time.
2015-01-09T03:49:28Z beach: No, it's still there.
2015-01-09T03:49:34Z beach: I'll fix it.
2015-01-09T03:49:37Z nyef: Scary code, TBH.
2015-01-09T03:49:43Z beach: Yes, yes.
2015-01-09T03:50:05Z nyef: But I can understand you not having access to "genesis/cons.h" and "genesis/constants.h".
2015-01-09T03:50:50Z beach: Since it is not production code, it doesn't matter.  And this method was faster to code.
2015-01-09T03:51:27Z beach: All I needed was a benchmark and to verify that the general idea works.
2015-01-09T03:52:09Z nyef: Hrm. Now, the question is, could you have gotten equivalent speed from lisp?
2015-01-09T03:52:40Z beach: I doubt it.  Though perhaps if I allocated a vector with dynamic extent.
2015-01-09T03:52:43Z nyef: Alternately, could you have gone fully machine-dependent and just defined a VOP?
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2015-01-09T03:53:06Z beach: In production code, that would be the preferred method I suppose.
2015-01-09T03:53:26Z nyef: Depends on if you're willing to take the platform dependency or not.
2015-01-09T03:53:39Z beach: Sure.
2015-01-09T03:53:49Z beach: You mean keep the C code if not?
2015-01-09T03:54:13Z beach: Or convince the compiler to allocate a vector on the stack?
2015-01-09T03:54:39Z beach: Oh, there is still a problem in SBCL that will slow things down in Lisp...
2015-01-09T03:55:11Z nyef: Oh?
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2015-01-09T03:55:16Z beach: ... actually two problems.  One is that I don't see how to convince the compiler that the return value of COUNT must be a fixnum.
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2015-01-09T03:55:44Z nyef: Convince it in what sense?
2015-01-09T03:56:00Z beach: Make sure it doesn't do generic +
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2015-01-09T03:56:32Z beach: The other is that, even though the length of the list has been pre-computed, the second time the list is scanned, SBCL tests for end of list as well, whereas in TT2 it is known that there are at least LENGTH CONS cells.
2015-01-09T03:56:49Z nyef: Hrm, yes...
2015-01-09T03:57:24Z beach: The second problem is made worse by the fact that SBCL needs two tests for every element in a list.
2015-01-09T03:57:39Z beach: And that is because SBCL has the same tag for NIL and for CONS cells.
2015-01-09T03:58:05Z nyef: So, one of your weapons is to proclaim (declaim?) the type of your COUNT function. The second is to use TRULY-THE on the return value of CDR to say that it's a CONS.
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2015-01-09T03:58:15Z nyef: That might work for a start.
2015-01-09T03:58:29Z nyef: Right, list-pointer-lowtag.
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2015-01-09T03:58:58Z beach: I leave it to some SBCL person to try that.  I'll just try and get the paper published.
2015-01-09T03:59:08Z nyef: Fair enough.
2015-01-09T03:59:24Z beach: And, I will of course implement my technique in SICL.
2015-01-09T04:00:01Z beach: Also missing is a test to see how much stack space is left.
2015-01-09T04:00:14Z beach: TT2 should be called accordingly.
2015-01-09T04:02:31Z beach: OK, so I know that both CCL and SBCL implement COUNT :FROM-END T by reversing the list first.  I wonder what other implementations do.
2015-01-09T04:03:03Z beach: Hard to know for the commercial implementations, but one could at least check whether they allocate memory.
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2015-01-09T04:04:31Z beach: Anyway, I should quit blabbing about this.  nyef: So you must be near the end of implementing the region operations, right?
2015-01-09T04:04:52Z nyef: Trying to determine which are the remaining bits that I need.
2015-01-09T04:06:15Z nyef: I have to tie the rectangle-set stuff that I've written into the actual region class hierarchy, implement the region predicate and region transformation protocols for them...
2015-01-09T04:06:55Z nyef: Possibly also implement the region predicate and transformation protocols for rectangles and bounding-rectangles.
2015-01-09T04:07:37Z beach: Oh, right.  Implementing the region transformation operations won't be trivial.
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2015-01-09T04:08:15Z beach: Unless you restrict yourself to rectilinear transformations.
2015-01-09T04:08:21Z nyef: Actually, it should at least be straightforward, as I only have... yeah.
2015-01-09T04:08:34Z nyef: I have two transformation classes.
2015-01-09T04:08:47Z nyef: IDENTITY-TRANSFORMATION and SCALING-TRANSFORMATION.
2015-01-09T04:08:52Z nyef: The latter also does translation.
2015-01-09T04:09:13Z beach: OK, that should be doable.
2015-01-09T04:10:53Z nyef: I'm also starting to look at how these things tie into the sheet layer, particularly in terms of event distribution and grafting mediums.
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2015-01-09T04:12:15Z beach: Sure.
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2015-01-09T04:14:02Z nyef: I'm also thinking that I need to plan out in more detail what needs doing in what order.
2015-01-09T04:14:20Z nyef: I'm basically lucky that I had time to do any commits this past two days.
2015-01-09T04:14:31Z nyef: And next Wednesday is likely to be just as bad.
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2015-01-09T04:15:23Z beach: I am totally incapable of such planning myself.  I just try things out, and then realize I need something else first.
2015-01-09T04:15:55Z nyef: So if I have a written list of things to work on that are small enough and well enough defined that I can knock out one or two in an hour, then I can make steady progress even on days when I just don't have the bandwidth for much.
2015-01-09T04:16:17Z beach: Yeah, that's a good idea.
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2015-01-09T04:17:06Z nyef: I usually don't do such planning, and often things trip me up that way anyway, but it's a start, and often if it's a case of "oh, looks like I need this other thing" that only blocks a couple of paths and there are other things that I can do if I'm crunched for time.
2015-01-09T04:18:32Z beach: But you are right, if you need to get things done in small intervals of time, having such a plan is a good start, even though it might not be perfect.
2015-01-09T04:20:16Z nyef: The other bit is, it saves me from having to think about what to do next an awful lot of the time.
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2015-01-09T04:23:09Z beach: That's what I do when I have to lie down and rest my back.
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2015-01-09T04:24:33Z beach: Yay!  SICL LOOP passes all the tests for the WITH clause.
2015-01-09T04:25:20Z beach: The WITH clause might seem trivial, but there are some complicating aspects, like when there is no FORM but there is a destructuring TYPE-SPEC.
2015-01-09T04:27:04Z beach: Speaking of which, Paul Dietz' ANSI test suite uses the suffix ".lsp" for Lisp files.  Is there *any* reason to keep that anymore?
2015-01-09T04:27:25Z alpha-: .cl
2015-01-09T04:27:45Z beach: I mean, are then any widely used OSes that still have a 3 character limitation for that?
2015-01-09T04:27:54Z nyef: ... VMS?
2015-01-09T04:28:07Z beach: nyef: I said "widely used" :)
2015-01-09T04:28:20Z nyef: CP/M?
2015-01-09T04:28:32Z beach: Right. :)
2015-01-09T04:28:47Z beach: But not Windows or MacOS, right?
2015-01-09T04:29:08Z nyef: MacOS never had a limit on file extensions. Never USED file extensions, for that matter.
2015-01-09T04:29:17Z beach: I see.
2015-01-09T04:30:00Z nyef: (Files had "creator" and "type" attributes, which were four characters each, the former identifying which application was used to make them, the latter being application-specific.)
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2015-01-09T04:38:55Z nyef: Okay, I need to lie down and rest my eyes for a few hours. I'll be back tomorrow / later today, depending on which side of the pond you're on.
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2015-01-09T05:07:19Z ahungry: Hmm...so my issue with threads never releasing is something internal to clack
2015-01-09T05:07:38Z ahungry: also, clack really adds a lot of overhead, here are siege results of clack +caveman VS pure hunchentoot to serve the same content
2015-01-09T05:07:41Z ahungry: http://sprunge.us/OEcT
2015-01-09T05:08:16Z ahungry: straight HT is about 2x as fast, and had 0 failed transactions (and didn't end up with threads perma locked)
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2015-01-09T05:11:52Z Zhivago: Ah, threads. If only they scaled and had constrained effect propagation. :)
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2015-01-09T05:12:38Z nycat-: ahungry: what about clack on woo? vs plain woo?
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2015-01-09T05:14:54Z ahungry: I attempted woo when first setting up clack and it flat out failed on two fully updated sbcl/quicklisp set ups
2015-01-09T05:15:06Z ahungry: didn't go as far as attempting to debug, tried wookie and it failed as well
2015-01-09T05:15:24Z ahungry: I put in a clack issue in detail here https://github.com/fukamachi/clack/issues/93
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2015-01-09T05:21:34Z ahungry: Hmm, finally got woo working and it has performance about 5% better than native HT, so that is pretty good, no locked thread issue
2015-01-09T05:21:44Z ahungry: I guess clack + HT is just a bad combo for a busy site
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2015-01-09T05:32:54Z Zhivago: You can't stick a cache on the front?
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2015-01-09T05:39:26Z ahungry: The site streams real time info from an emulated everquest server, so to some degree I can cache, but even with the caches I implemented within the clack app I built, it still hits the problem just due to the page size of text being sent
2015-01-09T05:39:58Z ahungry: I could probably do something like apache apc or some other non CL caching system that runs outside the app, but I'd rather the app just not let threads get locked up to where it can't make anymore :)
2015-01-09T05:40:03Z ahungry: so far woo seems to fix the problems
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2015-01-09T07:47:22Z nydel: as a server listening for connection requests and creating the socketry / handling the requests .. is it a good idea &or standard practice to create some sort of standardized client-connection object to keep various data in order such as the client host, addr, port, socket, handler-function etc? i'm looking for some existing source that does this if it exists which i assume it surely must, any references or in
2015-01-09T07:47:28Z nydel: put greatly appreciated
2015-01-09T07:49:56Z nydel: something like the "connection" clos class in https://github.com/nydel/muclr/blob/master/src/server.lisp
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2015-01-09T07:55:56Z pnpuff: nydel: are you creating new sockets API functions?
2015-01-09T07:57:15Z nydel: pnpuff: yes, i'm doing everything from the ground up. servers register with the registrar, clients ask the registrar for listed servers, clients connect to servers. each of the 3 having a separate API for how they interact with oneanother.
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2015-01-09T07:58:13Z nydel: oh and the api will all be in separate systems i'll have the next-system-up depend-on, it's all messy right now but that's because i'm building something big.
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2015-01-09T07:59:33Z xyh: in defmethod "parameter-specializer-name" can not be used with &key ??
2015-01-09T08:01:19Z loke: You can't specialise on &KEY parameters
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2015-01-09T08:02:29Z Quadrescence: i wish we had &NAMED parameters which could be specialized on!
2015-01-09T08:02:43Z xyh: is it possible to use a macro to achieve this ?
2015-01-09T08:02:50Z Quadrescence: and had call site optimization
2015-01-09T08:03:15Z Shinmera: You can write your own OOP system that can do it.
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2015-01-09T08:05:26Z nydel: a way to get the local machine's IP in sbcl without opening a socket? like where (machine-instance) evals down to hostname, is there an ip addr equivalent?
2015-01-09T08:05:27Z xyh: Shinmera: there are any other OOP system ?
2015-01-09T08:05:41Z Shinmera: xyh: I don't understand your question.
2015-01-09T08:06:57Z xyh: Shinmera: are there any other OOP systems ?
2015-01-09T08:07:55Z Shinmera: xyh: I'd say what C#/Java/etc do are OOP systems different from CLOS. If you mean whether there are OOP libraries for CL out there that will give you a different system: probably, but I haven't come across one.
2015-01-09T08:07:56Z |3b|: in CL? there are a few, though not as integrated into the language as CLOS
2015-01-09T08:08:14Z Shinmera: IIRC On Lisp explains how to get a really basic OOP system going.
2015-01-09T08:08:20Z PuercoPop: xyh: yes, there are a couple: like sheeple https://github.com/zkat/sheeple
2015-01-09T08:08:38Z |3b|: garnet and sheeple are 2 i know of
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2015-01-09T08:09:21Z PuercoPop: plus extensions to CLOS like Cells that add 'observers' to it
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2015-01-09T08:10:48Z xyh: |3b|: this garnet ? :: https://github.com/mmontone/garnet
2015-01-09T08:11:18Z |3b|: looks like it
2015-01-09T08:11:58Z |3b| is surprised to see there has been any activity on it in last few decades
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2015-01-09T08:31:12Z zickzackv: (or “POOP Framework”) :-)
2015-01-09T08:33:00Z xyh: zickzackv: to me? a link please :)
2015-01-09T08:34:13Z zickzackv: xyh: its in PuercoPop's reference to sheeple. its a prototype object orientated framework
2015-01-09T08:34:34Z zickzackv: *programming framework
2015-01-09T08:34:46Z xyh: ok, thx
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2015-01-09T08:45:26Z xyh: any examples of embeding other language's code block into common-lisp code ? using reader macro ?
2015-01-09T08:46:14Z xyh:    for example :
2015-01-09T08:46:14Z xyh:    #+begin_src other-language
2015-01-09T08:46:15Z xyh:    #+end_src
2015-01-09T08:46:15Z xyh:    like org-mode
2015-01-09T08:50:32Z |3b| thinks ecl has some sort of "inline C" 
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2015-01-09T09:17:29Z pawanspace: What can be alternative of multiple level of if else conditions in functional programming language?
2015-01-09T09:21:17Z xyh: pawanspace: pattern match
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2015-01-09T10:21:56Z Zhivago: 3b: It does.
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2015-01-09T10:44:37Z Ainieco: hello
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2015-01-09T10:45:22Z Ainieco: i'd like to set label selectable using cl-cffi-gtk, docs mentions function similar to one in C gtk but there is no such function actually defined https://github.com/crategus/cl-cffi-gtk/blob/a05743f8bbf473d2c8b633f89161e3223147a09d/gtk/gtk.label.lisp#L256
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2015-01-09T10:46:17Z Ainieco: do i missing something?
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2015-01-09T10:50:33Z ferada: Ainieco: (setf (gtk-label-selectable) T) or so?
2015-01-09T10:50:39Z ferada: also the constructor argument
2015-01-09T10:51:38Z ferada: well rather (setf (gtk-label-selectable label) T)
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2015-01-09T10:52:07Z Ainieco: ferada: ah, i see, thank you!
2015-01-09T10:53:21Z Ainieco: ferada: do you know what is GTK_POS_BOTTOM in cl-cffi-gtk ? github search returned nothing helpful https://github.com/crategus/cl-cffi-gtk/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=GTK_POS_BOTTOM&type=Code
2015-01-09T10:55:00Z Ainieco: ferada: need that for gtk-grid-attach-next-to
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2015-01-09T10:55:44Z Ainieco: ah, it looks like it just :bottom
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2015-01-09T10:57:04Z ferada: Ainieco: right, in general those are all mapped to keywords i think
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2015-01-09T11:01:49Z wgslayer: any hin why cl-fad adds a \ before dots in filenames on linux but not on os x ?
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2015-01-09T11:07:44Z Ainieco: ferada: in C gtk i could pass arbitraty data to g_signal_connect's callback(https://developer.gnome.org/gobject/unstable/gobject-Signals.html#g-signal-connect) is it possible to do in cl-cffi-gtk?
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2015-01-09T11:08:43Z Ainieco: ferada: currently i'm thinking about capturing my data in closure and then passing it to actual callback but that kinda awkward
2015-01-09T11:08:50Z Ainieco: compared to original interface
2015-01-09T11:10:02Z ferada: the callback data is already used to call to the lisp side, so yes, closure it is
2015-01-09T11:10:09Z ferada: just look at the demo
2015-01-09T11:10:38Z Ainieco: ferada: what demo?
2015-01-09T11:10:52Z ferada: cl-cffi-gtk/demo/gtk-demo/*
2015-01-09T11:11:07Z ferada: most things are used there
2015-01-09T11:11:48Z Ainieco: ferada: ah, okay, thanks
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2015-01-09T11:42:39Z mrkkrp: why does it happen?  http://paste.lisp.org/+33ZF
2015-01-09T11:43:42Z jdz: mrkkrp: most probably awhen does not properly return multiple values
2015-01-09T11:44:05Z jdz: mrkkrp: try macroexpanding the macro usage
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2015-01-09T11:45:22Z jdz: not
2015-01-09T11:45:27Z jdz: clhs or
2015-01-09T11:45:27Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_or.htm
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2015-01-09T11:45:52Z jdz: OR only returns the primary value for all but the last form
2015-01-09T11:46:42Z jdz: mrkkrp: you don't need the awhen macro in this case, anyway.
2015-01-09T11:47:15Z mrkkrp: jdz, thanks... it's simplified example, just to demonstrate this behavior
2015-01-09T11:47:25Z jdz: yeah, guessed as much
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2015-01-09T12:34:01Z Ainieco: how to loop over array?
2015-01-09T12:34:23Z eudoxia: (loop for elem across array do (print elem))
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2015-01-09T12:34:36Z Ainieco: eudoxia: across is for vectors
2015-01-09T12:34:57Z eudoxia: ah right i always confuse those
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2015-01-09T12:35:38Z Shinmera: vectors are arrays.
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2015-01-09T12:37:32Z Ainieco: Shinmera: but arrays are not vectors
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2015-01-09T12:37:51Z Ainieco: so across doesn't work here
2015-01-09T12:37:54Z Shinmera: Sure, but since we don't know what kind of array you have we can't tell you.
2015-01-09T12:37:56Z hitecnologys: Ainieco: across is not for vectors. It's for sequences.
2015-01-09T12:38:07Z Ainieco: hitecnologys: no, it's for vectors
2015-01-09T12:38:16Z hitecnologys: Ainieco: strings aren't vectors.
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2015-01-09T12:38:53Z Shinmera: hitecnologys: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm for-as-across::= var [type-spec] across vector
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2015-01-09T12:39:44Z Ainieco: Shinmera: (make-array '(2 3) :initial-value '((1 2 3) (4 5 6))) type of array
2015-01-09T12:40:12Z Shinmera: Ainieco: for multi-dimensional arrays you'll just have to use nested loops like everywhere else.
2015-01-09T12:40:31Z Ainieco: Shinmera: with manual indexing, right?
2015-01-09T12:40:34Z Shinmera: Ainieco: You may be interested in array-dimension / array-dimensions to get the sizes.
2015-01-09T12:40:39Z hitecnologys: Shinmera: ah, my mistake, sorry.
2015-01-09T12:41:13Z hitecnologys: Ainieco: there's also ROW-MAJOR-AREF.
2015-01-09T12:41:23Z Ainieco: Shinmera: ok, thanks
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2015-01-09T12:41:33Z Shinmera: hitecnologys: If ACROSS were for sequences there'd be no need for IN
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2015-01-09T12:42:09Z hitecnologys: Shinmera: yeah, right.
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2015-01-09T12:42:27Z Shinmera: I'll share this again since it's never not useful: http://sellout.github.io/2012/03/03/common-lisp-type-hierarchy/
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2015-01-09T12:43:42Z hitecnologys: Shinmera: this is useful, thanks.
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2015-01-09T15:46:32Z nyef: G'morning all.
2015-01-09T15:46:59Z Oladon_work: Morning nyef
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2015-01-09T16:25:16Z Ainieco: how filter function is called in cl?
2015-01-09T16:25:27Z stassats`: remove
2015-01-09T16:25:33Z H4ns: clhs remove-if-not
2015-01-09T16:25:33Z stassats`: clhs remove
2015-01-09T16:25:34Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm
2015-01-09T16:25:34Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm
2015-01-09T16:25:35Z Ainieco: ah, thanks
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2015-01-09T18:01:09Z drmeister: Argh:  I have a rare, poorly reproducible problem cropping up in my weak-key-hash-tables.  Very rarely, a key that is in the table is not found and the location dependency sensor claims that the key was never added.
2015-01-09T18:01:11Z drmeister: https://gist.github.com/drmeister/dfa82e9bb7f169f095f5
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2015-01-09T18:01:50Z stassats`: rare, poorly reproducible problem? welcome to compiler writing
2015-01-09T18:02:18Z nyef: Part of the challenge is making it easy to reproduce.
2015-01-09T18:02:47Z drmeister: Yup - throw in moving garbage collection and I'm in for a really bad time.
2015-01-09T18:03:46Z pnpuff: ... location dependency sensor?
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2015-01-09T18:04:22Z drmeister: nyef: Good point.   Notice how it's compiling about 17 files before the error shows up.  I could run the compiler again and it could show up immediately.  Run it a third time and it might compile everything without the problem surfacing.
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2015-01-09T18:04:41Z drmeister: I'll mess with the GC configuration and see if I can make it happen faster.
2015-01-09T18:04:44Z ggole: Ugh, intermittent problems.
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2015-01-09T18:09:48Z drmeister: Ok, that was easy.   I just shrank all the GC parameters to tiny values that force lots of garbage collections
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2015-01-09T18:10:37Z drmeister: It's now an easily reproducible problem.
2015-01-09T18:11:25Z pnpuff: wow :)
2015-01-09T18:16:02Z drmeister: pnpuff: Location dependency is for when you have a hash-table that depends on a pointer bit pattern as its key and you have moving garbage collection.   #'EQ hash-tables are like this.     Just before you generate a hash for a key that you are going to insert into the hash-table you add the pointer to the location-dependency sensor.   Later, when you search
2015-01-09T18:16:02Z drmeister: for the key, if you don't find it you check the location-dependency sensor to see if the pointer has gone stale (been moved).  If it has you rehash the entire table.
2015-01-09T18:16:48Z drmeister: I'm still getting used to the idea.
2015-01-09T18:16:53Z pjb: -
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2015-01-09T18:33:33Z antoszka: Was browsing the Wikipedia and, in the article about Symbolics Genera I came across this: “Also, they made a new operating system named Minima for embedded uses, in Common Lisp.” – do you guys know anything about that? Is that available to be witnessed/played around with anywhere? Can't really find anything on the web.
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2015-01-09T18:50:37Z Ainieco: how to add padding to format's ~B?
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2015-01-09T18:50:59Z stassats`: (format t "~3,'0b" 1)
2015-01-09T18:51:23Z Ainieco: stassats`: great, thanks!
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2015-01-09T18:52:59Z axion: is it possible to use MAP with a result-type of an instance of a defstruct (i have a defstruct with a vector type that i'd like the result of MAP to be able to use it's slots).
2015-01-09T18:53:19Z stassats`: axion: no
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2015-01-09T18:55:17Z stassats`: if it's not :named, then you can just get a vector and it'll be just like a structure
2015-01-09T18:57:42Z axion: ok
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2015-01-09T19:02:50Z pjb: the problem is that when you have a defstruct :type, no type is defined, so you would have nothing to give to MAP (but vector or list).
2015-01-09T19:03:17Z pjb: Even when it is :named you can use map 'vector or 'list.  Being :named is totally irrelevant.
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2015-01-09T19:03:26Z Ainieco: how to convert bit array to integer?
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2015-01-09T19:03:48Z Ainieco: i.e #*10101 kind of thing
2015-01-09T19:04:01Z stassats`: Ainieco: nothing built-in
2015-01-09T19:04:05Z Ainieco: ah, okay
2015-01-09T19:04:07Z stassats`: Ainieco: but you shouldn't want to do that
2015-01-09T19:04:12Z pjb: (defstruct (point (:type vector) :named) x y) (map 'vector (lambda (x) (if (numberp x) (incf x) x)) (make-point :x 1 :y 2)) --> #(point 2 3)
2015-01-09T19:04:25Z pjb: once again, stassats` says bulshit. I'm very sorry about that.
2015-01-09T19:04:32Z stassats`: Ainieco: if you want to convert to integers, then maybe start with integers
2015-01-09T19:04:59Z stassats`: Ainieco: although bit-vectors have the advantage of being destructively modifiable
2015-01-09T19:05:24Z stassats`: and there are logical operators that work on bit vectors
2015-01-09T19:05:42Z Ainieco: stassats`: nah, i can't, i have a task at hand which asks me to do exactly that - convert bit array to int, nothing can be done about it
2015-01-09T19:05:49Z stassats`: so, sometimes you can avoid conversion, sometimes not
2015-01-09T19:05:59Z stassats`: which task?
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2015-01-09T19:06:32Z stassats`: pjb: go away
2015-01-09T19:07:29Z Ainieco: stassats`: i need to flip bits of 32 unsigned int
2015-01-09T19:07:48Z stassats`: where do bit-vectors come in?
2015-01-09T19:08:10Z Ainieco: stassats`: using bit-not for that which operates on bit arrays
2015-01-09T19:08:28Z White_Flame: logxor works on integers
2015-01-09T19:08:37Z stassats`: clhs lognot
2015-01-09T19:08:37Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_logand.htm
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2015-01-09T19:09:30Z Ainieco: stassats`: it doesn't flip bits
2015-01-09T19:09:38Z nyef: Ainieco: logxor flips bits.
2015-01-09T19:09:59Z White_Flame: lognot flips all the bits, regardless of length.  If you want to flip the lowest 32 bits only, logxor can do that
2015-01-09T19:10:00Z stassats`: (ldb (byte 32 0) (lognot #b11)) seems flippy to me
2015-01-09T19:10:07Z Ainieco: nyef: i need 'not' not 'xor'
2015-01-09T19:10:20Z _death: Ainieco: you make no sense
2015-01-09T19:10:50Z nyef: Ainieco: So xor with 1. 0 xor 1 => 1, 1 xor 1 => 0.
2015-01-09T19:11:07Z Ainieco: stassats`: thanks, that's exactly what i need
2015-01-09T19:11:09Z stassats`: (logxor #b11 (ldb (byte 32 0) -1)) if you prefer logxor
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2015-01-09T19:11:31Z Ainieco: stassats`: 'not' just fine, thanks
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2015-01-09T19:11:39Z pjb: (ldb (byte 32 0) (lognot x))  is better than (logxor #xffffffff x) when you're not sure whether x is already a (unsigned-byte 32) or not.
2015-01-09T19:11:40Z _death: Ainieco: (logxor #b1011 #b1100) ==> #b0111 <- flipped the two bits in the mask
2015-01-09T19:12:37Z Ainieco: pjb: yup, i kinda said from begining that i need 'not' ;)
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2015-01-09T19:14:10Z White_Flame: Actually, you said you needed to convert bit arrays to ints...
2015-01-09T19:14:40Z Ainieco: that would do too, actually ;) but ldb is better, can't argue with that
2015-01-09T19:14:50Z White_Flame: the extraction of intent when somebody says "I need to perform a specific operation" is harder when there's no additional contet
2015-01-09T19:14:52Z White_Flame: context
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2015-01-09T19:15:48Z stassats`: bit vectors are certainly ill suited, especially for such a limited bit range
2015-01-09T19:17:55Z stassats`: yet another way: (logandc2 (ldb (byte 32 0) -1) x)
2015-01-09T19:18:23Z Ainieco: stassats`: that's cool, thank you for examples!
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2015-01-09T19:18:41Z stassats`: bat wait: (logandc1 x (ldb (byte 32 0) -1))
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2015-01-09T19:18:54Z stassats`: but
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2015-01-09T19:20:06Z stassats`: (mask-field (byte 32 0) -1) == (ldb (byte 32 0) -1)
2015-01-09T19:20:10Z stassats`: it's like Perl
2015-01-09T19:21:15Z stassats`: (deposit-field -1 (byte 32 0) 0), (1- (expt 2 32)), (1- (ash 1 32))
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2015-01-09T19:24:23Z Hexstream: I find the EXPT and ASH ways offensive compared to the others. Too numbery.
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2015-01-09T19:26:28Z Ainieco: hm, wait a second, that's not exactly bit flipping i need, i.e in #*00000000000000000001000011000110 all zeroes should rurn ones - #*11111111111111111110111100111001
2015-01-09T19:26:35Z stassats`: Hexstream: (1- (reduce #'* (make-list 32 :initial-element 2)))
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2015-01-09T19:26:57Z Ainieco: bit-not does execatly that, unfortunatly i don't know how to derive that second bumber for ldb solution
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2015-01-09T19:27:12Z stassats`: the first thing i showed does that
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2015-01-09T19:27:44Z stassats`: (write (ldb (byte 32 0) (lognot #b00000000000000000001000011000110)) :base 2) => 11111111111111111110111100111001
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2015-01-09T19:28:53Z Ainieco: stassats`: but how to convert that result to integer?
2015-01-09T19:29:07Z stassats`: which result?
2015-01-09T19:29:20Z Ainieco: result of (write (ldb (byte 32 0) (lognot #b00000000000000000001000011000110)) :base 2)
2015-01-09T19:29:30Z stassats`: it's already an integer, what else can it be?
2015-01-09T19:30:00Z Hexstream: clhs parse-integer
2015-01-09T19:30:01Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_parse_.htm
2015-01-09T19:30:16Z stassats`: Hexstream: please, no
2015-01-09T19:30:18Z Ainieco: that's binary, see ':base 2'
2015-01-09T19:30:28Z stassats`: Ainieco: integers are binary
2015-01-09T19:30:52Z stassats`: you just choose to print them as decimal
2015-01-09T19:30:54Z stassats`: s
2015-01-09T19:30:55Z _death: integers are integers.. there is no "binary integer" or "decimal integer"
2015-01-09T19:31:12Z Ainieco: yeah, sorry, i meant decimals
2015-01-09T19:31:37Z stassats`: Ainieco: there are always binary, there's no difference
2015-01-09T19:31:40Z stassats`: they
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2015-01-09T19:32:19Z Hexstream: Ainieco: Maybe I'm confused about what you're asking, but PARSE-INTEGER has a radix argument.
2015-01-09T19:32:41Z stassats`: no, please, don't print and integer and parse it
2015-01-09T19:33:17Z stassats`: Ainieco: there's no binary or decimal integers, they are all the same, WRITE has :BASE 2 so that it's printed on screen as a binary
2015-01-09T19:33:22Z stassats`: you can put :BASE 23
2015-01-09T19:33:33Z stassats`: it wouldn't change internal representation of the integer
2015-01-09T19:33:38Z _death: (defun mystery (a b) (+ (* a 2) b))
2015-01-09T19:34:30Z stassats`: which is binary %99.999 of the time (you can't say such generalizations on #lisp, sadly)
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2015-01-09T19:35:13Z Ainieco: thank you guys! just derived answer i needed from your tips
2015-01-09T19:35:30Z stassats`: you can paste the code to http://paste.lisp.org
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2015-01-09T19:35:39Z stassats`: so that we can laugh at it and suggest improvements
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2015-01-09T19:36:21Z Hexstream: Really stassats will do most of the work while we watch in amazement.
2015-01-09T19:36:56Z stassats`: Hexstream: and then pjb will insult me for not suggesting some outlandish possibility, the usual business
2015-01-09T19:36:56Z Ainieco: yeah, i really appreciate how patient and helpfull stassats` is every time i ask some stupid questions
2015-01-09T19:37:00Z Xach: adlai: (intern :foo :keyword) won't work
2015-01-09T19:37:13Z Hexstream: stassats`: Cost of biz...
2015-01-09T19:37:15Z Xach opens issue for scalpl
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2015-01-09T19:37:24Z stassats`: :foo will work?
2015-01-09T19:37:45Z stassats`: or is :foo not a constant?
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2015-01-09T19:38:15Z Xach: stassats`: (intern :foo) won't work either. the code in question uses :keyword though.
2015-01-09T19:38:43Z Hexstream: stassats`: INTERN requires a string, not a string designator.
2015-01-09T19:38:51Z Xach: http://report.quicklisp.org/2015-01-09/failure-report/scalpl.html
2015-01-09T19:38:54Z stassats`: Hexstream: gee whiz
2015-01-09T19:39:11Z stassats`: Hexstream: i'm saying that :foo is already kinda interned
2015-01-09T19:39:43Z Xach retries
2015-01-09T19:40:24Z stassats`: it has (setf name (intern name :keyword)) *exchanges*), where name is a with-slots slots
2015-01-09T19:40:55Z stassats`: so, the first time it's can be a string, then it becomes a keyword, but that's in initial-instance, shouldn't happen twice
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2015-01-09T19:43:46Z stassats`: this line https://github.com/adlai/scalpl/blob/bdccfd817e01d6b938db1301fe465645d225fba3/kraken.lisp#L154
2015-01-09T19:44:52Z Xach: thanks, stassats`
2015-01-09T19:44:56Z Xach: i have opened an issue
2015-01-09T19:45:25Z stassats`: there's alexandria:ensure-symbol, although it's just (intern (string name) package)
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2015-01-09T19:48:57Z Xach: there will be a quicklisp release tomorrow when this is fixed
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2015-01-09T19:56:33Z Oladon_work: Yay, quicklisp
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2015-01-09T20:12:59Z tadni: I'm trying to build Lispkit and I'm getting a complaint that "Fatal SIMPLE-ERROR: This SBCL does not support core compression".
2015-01-09T20:13:46Z stassats`: it's an optional feature
2015-01-09T20:14:29Z jackdaniel: funny to watch repl of running hunchentoot with my blog - queries for admin.php, sqlite/main.php etc from all over the world
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2015-01-09T20:14:47Z tadni: stassats`: Yeah, I just said screw it and removed it from the makefile. :^P
2015-01-09T20:15:14Z nyef: jackdaniel: I get that sort of thing for an API server that listens for HTTP requests but doesn't actually serve a website.
2015-01-09T20:15:50Z jackdaniel: yes, it looks automated, since same queries come from diffrent "hackers"
2015-01-09T20:15:56Z jackdaniel: s/diffrent/different/
2015-01-09T20:16:22Z orthecreedence: you should serve up fake ones just to fuck with em
2015-01-09T20:16:47Z jackdaniel: orthecreedence: no time neither interest, but this tought crossed my mind :)
2015-01-09T20:17:01Z orthecreedence: yeah i hear that =]
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2015-01-09T20:32:06Z pjb: retaliation
2015-01-09T20:32:20Z pjb: or curation, call it as you wish.
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2015-01-09T21:00:28Z ivan4th: orthecreedence: wouldn't you mind if I add route priorities to wookie? Ordering routes by the order of evaluation of DEFROUTE forms is rather fragile (e.g. you may alter it accidentally by recompiling a buffer in SLIME)
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2015-01-09T21:02:20Z oleo: where does the math-functions package stem from ?
2015-01-09T21:02:38Z oleo: on sbcl ?
2015-01-09T21:03:38Z Hexstream: oleo: Not sure what you're talking about. SBCL does not appear to have a "math-functions" package.
2015-01-09T21:04:07Z bjorkintosh: sin/cos/log ?
2015-01-09T21:04:17Z bjorkintosh: i think that's what oleo's asking.
2015-01-09T21:04:50Z ggole quit
2015-01-09T21:04:51Z Hexstream: oleo: SBCL implements its own math functions, it doesn't use some external library.
2015-01-09T21:04:52Z oleo: no, binomial, erf, ms, factorial, multinomial....etc...
2015-01-09T21:05:02Z stassats`: there's no such thing
2015-01-09T21:05:02Z oleo: err
2015-01-09T21:05:04Z stassats`: never was
2015-01-09T21:05:32Z oleo: wth, math-functions::normal-pdf etc....
2015-01-09T21:05:34Z oleo: it's all there...
2015-01-09T21:05:42Z Xach: oleo: not provided by sbcl.
2015-01-09T21:05:44Z oleo: i just know where the package belongs....
2015-01-09T21:05:45Z stassats`: are you being serious?
2015-01-09T21:05:50Z oleo: err don't know*
2015-01-09T21:05:53Z Xach: oleo: try M-. on them and see where you land.
2015-01-09T21:05:58Z oleo: ok
2015-01-09T21:06:05Z Hexstream: oleo: What does (lisp-implementation-type) return?
2015-01-09T21:06:06Z oleo: wait, i'm in mcclim
2015-01-09T21:07:03Z oleo: well, lisp-implementation-type at home is sbcl....
2015-01-09T21:07:06Z oleo: almost always....
2015-01-09T21:08:00Z Hexstream: oleo: You can find where definitions for a symbol are defined with M-. in slime.
2015-01-09T21:08:12Z oleo: what is that bound to ?
2015-01-09T21:08:22Z Hexstream: M-. is the binding...
2015-01-09T21:08:28Z Hexstream: Alt-.
2015-01-09T21:09:06Z oleo: oh man.....i'm talking against walls, i don't use emacs! i use mcclim!
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2015-01-09T21:09:12Z oleo: lol
2015-01-09T21:09:22Z stassats`: you also do not make sense
2015-01-09T21:09:30Z stassats`: mcclim is a widget toolkit
2015-01-09T21:09:50Z stassats`: no wonder you can't figure this out
2015-01-09T21:09:50Z oleo: well (apropos "" "math-functions") returns me a bunch of functions (fbound)
2015-01-09T21:10:03Z oleo: i'm in the listener....
2015-01-09T21:10:11Z nyef: (describe (find-package "math-functions")) ?
2015-01-09T21:10:15Z oleo: wait
2015-01-09T21:10:38Z Hexstream: The package is most likely to actually be called MATH-FUNCTIONS.
2015-01-09T21:10:54Z oleo: jep
2015-01-09T21:10:55Z oleo: it is
2015-01-09T21:10:58Z oleo: no more info
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2015-01-09T21:11:13Z oleo: hahaha, i don't know where i got it from or how....
2015-01-09T21:11:53Z nyef: (apropos "" "math-functions" t), find something that's fbound, and DESCRIBE the symbol?
2015-01-09T21:12:03Z Hexstream: oleo: Using slime would tremendously enhance your "supportability".
2015-01-09T21:13:23Z oleo: ok found it
2015-01-09T21:13:52Z oleo: i just got into quicklisp dir and did a find . -iname "*math-functions*" there and it belongs to the suit cl-ana
2015-01-09T21:14:40Z pnpuff: cl-anna? ;)
2015-01-09T21:15:13Z stassats`: that's what google said, but it doesn't define a package "math-functions" just :cl-ana.math-functions
2015-01-09T21:15:36Z stassats`: which wouldn't make (apropos "" "math-functions") work
2015-01-09T21:17:15Z Xach: that is a recent change to cl-ana
2015-01-09T21:17:23Z Xach: until this month there was no prefix
2015-01-09T21:18:08Z stassats`: all could be solved with M-. on "math-functions"
2015-01-09T21:20:14Z nyef: stassats`: Which doesn't help if your environment doesn't have M-. for whatever reason.
2015-01-09T21:20:33Z stassats`: that's why i said that, ditch that environment
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2015-01-09T21:32:47Z nyef: Hunh. There's a MacIvory board on eBay right now.
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2015-01-09T21:38:57Z z0d: yeah
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2015-01-09T21:50:44Z lispm: a slow MacIvory I with very little memory
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2015-01-09T21:56:20Z bjorkintosh: are people still pining for a lispOS?
2015-01-09T21:57:02Z thawes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-01-09T21:57:09Z z0d: few
2015-01-09T21:57:16Z alpha-: yes
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2015-01-09T21:59:29Z nyef: We can get many of the purported benefits of a LispOS without actually needing a LispOS, and a system which gives those benefits would be a good stepping stone on the way to having a LispOS anyway.
2015-01-09T22:00:22Z Guest10042: also, what does a lispos really need in todays world
2015-01-09T22:00:47Z Guest10042: does it really need a lisp kernel?  or can we just create userland on top of linux/bsd kernels?
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2015-01-09T22:01:30Z Xach: per the discussion last night: "if you want to know how the terminal driver works, interrupt and click on the part of the stack that interests you."
2015-01-09T22:01:35Z Xach: i think that was from jonathan rees
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2015-01-09T22:02:33Z bjorkintosh: it keeps sounding like a smalltalk ide session though.
2015-01-09T22:02:36Z bjorkintosh: or am i wrong?
2015-01-09T22:03:23Z Xach: I don't know. I haven't used a lisp machine or a smalltalk ide session.
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2015-01-09T22:03:47Z Xach: It was nice to hear from people who actually used and liked it, rather than from theoretical dreamers
2015-01-09T22:04:33Z bjorkintosh: sounds neat, i must say.
2015-01-09T22:04:49Z bjorkintosh: to have the whole microworld to yourself. sounds very personal ...
2015-01-09T22:04:56Z bjorkintosh: far more so than this heap i'm using right now.
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2015-01-09T22:06:04Z Guest10042: i'm not sure i'm dreaming about a lispos as much as looking at the utter heap of shit that is osx / windows and linux and thinking, userland could be done better
2015-01-09T22:07:31Z Guest10042: unfortunately, even with large amounts of resources, you would end up owning your own casket with the project.  the osx / windows / linux worlds are products of customers who don't know what they want and developers who don't really have any taste or big picture understanding
2015-01-09T22:07:47Z Guest10042: so we end up with sheit :)  so yeah.  good to dream and watch youtube videos on what once was.
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2015-01-09T22:10:57Z jasom just noticed the libsodium bindings for lisp from harlequin; I'd been meaning to make my own anyway, so that's nice.
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2015-01-09T22:12:16Z jasom: oh, it's a github user named "Harleqin" which is AFAICT not related to the company "Harlequin"
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2015-01-09T22:13:32Z Xach got to listen to kent pitman eulogize harlequin's commercial ML product yesterday
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2015-01-09T22:14:16Z bjorkintosh: where, Xach?
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2015-01-09T22:15:58Z Xach: bjorkintosh: boston lisp dinner in cambridge
2015-01-09T22:16:08Z bjorkintosh: fancy.
2015-01-09T22:17:17Z nyef: bjorkintosh: A bunch of people taking over about a quarter of a chinese restaurant, talking shop. Not really fancy. (-:
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2015-01-09T22:17:48Z bjorkintosh: i still wish i could have been there.
2015-01-09T22:18:11Z nyef: It's a little bit out of your way, isn't it?
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2015-01-09T22:18:34Z bjorkintosh: a little.
2015-01-09T22:18:51Z bjorkintosh: a few thousand miles. but nothing a jet couldn't cover in 4 hours or less.
2015-01-09T22:18:57Z bjorkintosh: ... depending on airport nonsense.
2015-01-09T22:19:11Z bjorkintosh: and vacation time. and cost. and planning. and airport nonsense on arrival.
2015-01-09T22:19:15Z nyef: The JET can cover it...
2015-01-09T22:19:36Z nyef: ... it's everything else that gets in the way.
2015-01-09T22:19:39Z z0d: well, have you heard about the Internet?
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2015-01-09T22:20:09Z bjorkintosh: z0d, i have heard of it. but i dunno. i hear sin happens on it :O
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2015-01-09T22:22:13Z Xach: bjorkintosh: maybe you can organize a local one
2015-01-09T22:23:02Z bjorkintosh: hahaha!
2015-01-09T22:23:03Z bjorkintosh: good one.
2015-01-09T22:23:07Z bjorkintosh: I live in oklahoma.
2015-01-09T22:23:20Z bjorkintosh: i should move first.
2015-01-09T22:23:31Z nyef: Sounds like a movie or something.
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2015-01-09T22:24:03Z bjorkintosh: a dreadful one.
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2015-01-09T22:27:03Z jasom: suggested title: Sooner or later
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2015-01-09T22:46:04Z adlai: Xach, stassats` , thanks for catching that. fixed now.
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2015-01-09T22:59:00Z Xach: yay
2015-01-09T22:59:22Z Xach: bjorkintosh: oklahoma can be a hotbed of lisp!
2015-01-09T22:59:31Z Xach: oil & aerospace is crying out for it! maybe!
2015-01-09T23:01:42Z Oladon_work: lol
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2015-01-09T23:17:55Z wasamasa: Xach: I've just watched your uploaded video of the lucid ad
2015-01-09T23:18:12Z wasamasa: Xach: thanks for providing it
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2015-01-09T23:21:39Z nyef: ... Lucid ad video?
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2015-01-09T23:22:47Z wasamasa: yeah, it's a company that did produce its own CL implementation and tried out delivering a better IDE experience for C/C++ development by tapping into emacs
2015-01-09T23:23:06Z nyef: I know about the company, what's this about a video?
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2015-01-09T23:23:38Z nyef has a copy of Patterns of Software, and has read it. The "Into the Ground" essays were read more than once.
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2015-01-09T23:29:21Z lispm: nyef:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQQTScuApWk
2015-01-09T23:30:06Z nyef: Thank you.
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2015-01-09T23:30:56Z lispm: https://www.dreamsongs.com/LucidLostReponse.html
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2015-01-09T23:37:22Z wasamasa: I did stumble upon the video because RMS has reignited the discussion about how he disapproves of anything that helps emacs become a proper C++ IDE that might turn gcc into the frontend of a proprietary compiler since people suggested a fork
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2015-01-09T23:37:47Z wasamasa: and then found out that a similiar thing used to be the case, a fork of emacs done to facilitate a C++ IDE
2015-01-09T23:38:10Z wasamasa: ironic how history repeats itself
2015-01-09T23:38:16Z lispm: I think the fork was done earlier
2015-01-09T23:38:23Z lispm: Lucid used that fork
2015-01-09T23:38:34Z nyef: Hence the fork being called "Lucid Emacs"?
2015-01-09T23:38:49Z lispm: they were using Epoch Emacs, IIRC
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2015-01-09T23:38:55Z nyef: Hunh.
2015-01-09T23:39:39Z wasamasa: hmm
2015-01-09T23:39:45Z lispm: Epoch was a patched GNU Emacs for better GUI stuff
2015-01-09T23:39:51Z wasamasa: it looks like their magic was never included in the emacs itself
2015-01-09T23:39:54Z lispm: Lucid took it
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2015-01-09T23:40:18Z wasamasa: so I guess I won't find anything else than the video and a short paper to steal ideas from
2015-01-09T23:40:44Z lispm: Lucid Emacs -> XEmacs -> some idea might have a way back into GNU Emacs
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2015-01-09T23:42:30Z wasamasa: lispm: I assume the code is now property of another CL vendor, right?
2015-01-09T23:42:41Z lispm: which code?
2015-01-09T23:43:29Z lispm: the Emacs was open source
2015-01-09T23:43:37Z wasamasa: no, the IDE part
2015-01-09T23:43:49Z wasamasa: what they did call "Cadillac"
2015-01-09T23:44:38Z lispm: 'Cadillac' was the code name, the product was called Energize
2015-01-09T23:45:03Z lispm: since that was for C++ including a C and an C++ compiler, that was of no interest for other Lisp vendors
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2015-01-09T23:46:54Z lispm: Actually Franz announced that they were intending to buy Lucid's software, but it did not happen
2015-01-09T23:47:01Z wasamasa: hmm
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2015-01-09T23:47:48Z lispm: Later Harlequin bought Lucid Common Lisp, which now is called Liquid Common Lisp
2015-01-09T23:47:53Z lispm: confused? ;-)
2015-01-09T23:48:23Z stassats`: which is now lispworks which also sells lispworks?
2015-01-09T23:48:26Z oleo: liquid lucid lol
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2015-01-09T23:51:35Z wasamasa: hmm
2015-01-09T23:51:44Z wasamasa: perhaps I should just mail jwz and ask him about it
2015-01-09T23:54:36Z lispm: Wikipedia : The rights to Energize apparently were bought by Tartan, Inc.
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2015-01-09T23:55:30Z lispm: Guy L. Steele worked at Tartan labs some time...
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2015-01-09T23:57:26Z lispm: Tartan then was bough by TI, where the stuff was lost..
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