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I copied the way ECL's implemented generic function dispatch and I'm trying to understand how the call to the computed effective works but I can't track how it works with my debugger because its an example of C++ calling Common Lisp and my debugger (lldb) doesn't let me step 2014-12-01T02:25:36Z drmeister: into the call that easily. 2014-12-01T02:26:05Z drmeister: Below is the code that my generic functions use to dispatch to effective methods. 2014-12-01T02:26:08Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/bFuwnMx4 2014-12-01T02:27:24Z drmeister: The part I'm trying to understand is the last two lines. I bundle up the arguments to the generic function that are stored in an array on the stack in an array called a MultipleValues object and I put them in another array on the heap called a ValueFrame. 2014-12-01T02:27:43Z drmeister: A ValueFrame is a first class object that I pass to the effective method in "func". 2014-12-01T02:28:35Z drmeister: I copied this approach from ECL - it works fine. I don't understand where the frame goes. The effective methods are constructed in the ECL CLOS code and it's really difficult to penetrate it and figure out what it is doing. 2014-12-01T02:28:45Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-12-01T02:29:55Z drmeister: Sadly, I don't have my AMOP book with me to get insight on this. How do other Common Lisps call effective methods? 2014-12-01T02:30:30Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T02:31:43Z yrdz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T02:32:23Z yrdz joined #lisp 2014-12-01T02:33:20Z kurakot: Petit_Dejeuner_ & Bike: thanks. :D 2014-12-01T02:34:01Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-01T02:36:51Z drmeister: On the plus side, my new calling convention that passes excess (>5) arguments and returns excess (>1) multiple values in the same multiple-values structures stored on the C++ stack works great. 2014-12-01T02:37:48Z echo-area joined #lisp 2014-12-01T02:37:55Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T02:38:27Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-12-01T02:38:57Z drmeister: It's while I was ripping out the old code and replacing it with new code I discovered this generic function dispatch code and remembered that I should speed it up by doing something other than allocating a frame on the heap, copying the arguments to it and passing that frame to an uncertain and unknown fate with the effective method. 2014-12-01T02:39:01Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-12-01T02:39:01Z jumblerg quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-01T02:40:09Z drmeister: Darn, how I wish sometimes that ECL were under active development and the developer hung out here. 2014-12-01T02:40:12Z a20141129 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T02:41:32Z Bike: i think effective methods are just functions in most lisps, could be wrong though 2014-12-01T02:47:37Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T02:51:26Z |3b| recently implemented cellular automata using CL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhJ8iFb2TRE not sure if it is a "good example" or not, or if it really counts as "in common lisp", since most of the work is done in a DSL running on GPU 2014-12-01T02:53:52Z Petit_Dejeuner_: is that as complicated as it looks, or is that just how it's rendered? 2014-12-01T02:54:32Z |3b|: it is rendering the data directly 2014-12-01T02:54:56Z |3b|: 0..1 floating point data in red channel of a texture 2014-12-01T02:55:07Z scoofy: did you use opencl? 2014-12-01T02:55:10Z scoofy: or.. 2014-12-01T02:55:14Z |3b|: opengl compute shaders 2014-12-01T02:55:16Z Petit_Dejeuner_: lava lamp screensaver 2014-12-01T02:55:28Z scoofy: standard opengl pixel shaders 2014-12-01T02:56:10Z |3b|: GL compute shaders are same language as fragment shaders, and can share data, but run outside the normal rendering pipeline 2014-12-01T02:58:49Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-01T02:59:45Z |3b|: conceptually it isn't actually much more complex than normal 'life', just generalized a bit... uses average value within a circle instead of 0/1 on center pixel, and average value in a ring around that instead of count of immediate neighbors, and cutoffs between 0 and 1 to decide to add or remove a pixel 2014-12-01T03:00:53Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:01:16Z Petit_Dejeuner_: Oh, that's neat. 2014-12-01T03:01:30Z |3b|: harder to optimize though, since FP values makes hashing pretty much useless, and it tends to use a wider radius (7 for inner, 21 for outer in that video), so want FFT for convolution instead of counting neighbors directly for each pixel 2014-12-01T03:01:58Z |3b|: but it looks more interesting, and gliders can go in any direction :) 2014-12-01T03:02:11Z beach joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:02:20Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2014-12-01T03:03:14Z beach: drmeister: What's your question about effective methods? 2014-12-01T03:04:24Z beach: drmeister: You know about this one: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/clos-mop.html right? 2014-12-01T03:04:57Z drmeister: Bike: Thanks - I found where that frame ends up. As in ECL I modified my APPLY function so that if you (APPLY #'FOO XXX) where XXX is a frame then it applies #'FOO to the contents of XXX as if XXX were a list of arguments. 2014-12-01T03:05:07Z drmeister: beach: Hello. Let me take a look at that. 2014-12-01T03:08:05Z drmeister: beach: How do you save arguments when a generic function is determining where to dispatch to? How do you pass arguments to effective method once it's generated or retrieved from a cache? 2014-12-01T03:08:30Z drmeister: If I'm not making sense tell me and I'll try to be more clear. 2014-12-01T03:08:43Z beach: drmeister: Like Bike says, effective methods are typically just Common Lisp functions. 2014-12-01T03:08:53Z beach: So you call them as such. 2014-12-01T03:10:13Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:10:40Z beach: drmeister: You shouldn't need to do anything special to call an effective method, that's what I am trying to say. 2014-12-01T03:10:59Z drmeister: So when a generic function is called, are the arguments consed into a list via &rest and then the effective method is APPLY'd to that list of arguments? 2014-12-01T03:11:42Z beach: I believe that's the default, yes. 2014-12-01T03:13:02Z drmeister: Ok. In ECL there is an optimization where they allocate an array for the arguments, copy the arguments into it and APPLY the effective method to that array. APPLY is modified so that if it has only two arguments (the function and the array) then the function is applied to the contents of the array. 2014-12-01T03:13:38Z beach: Sure, why not. 2014-12-01T03:13:56Z drmeister: I copied that approach but at the time I could only allocate the array on the heap and I'm trying to improve it this time around. 2014-12-01T03:14:22Z beach: That would be fairly slow, indeed. 2014-12-01T03:15:29Z drmeister: Right. Now I have things set up so I could allocate the array on the stack but one of my concerns is that a stack allocated array must not escape. 2014-12-01T03:17:03Z zRecursive: drmeister: Why do you borrow codes from ECL not SBCL ? ECL seems not to be active now ? 2014-12-01T03:17:25Z beach: zRecursive: Because his entire implementation is based on ECL. 2014-12-01T03:17:40Z zRecursive: oh 2014-12-01T03:17:54Z drmeister: zRecursive: I need to interoperate with C++. It seemed like less of a leap to build on ECL than on SBCL. 2014-12-01T03:18:14Z drmeister: Once you start with an implementation you are kind of stuck with it. 2014-12-01T03:19:36Z zRecursive: yeah 2014-12-01T03:20:17Z xrash joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:20:22Z beach: drmeister: Before I forget, now, when you call GENERATE-AST, you must bind *COMPILER* first, to either 'CL:COMPILE, 'CL:COMPILE-FILE, or 'CL:EVAL. If you use the entry point I made for you, i.e. AST-FROM-FILE, it will do it for you. Otherwise, you have to do it yourself, or you will get an error indicating that it is unbound when you do EVAL-WHEN processing. 2014-12-01T03:21:52Z xrash quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T03:24:34Z xrash joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:27:13Z beach: drmeister: Specbot also knows about that website, so you can say things like: 2014-12-01T03:27:18Z beach: mop g-f-a-p-o 2014-12-01T03:27:19Z specbot: generic-function-argument-precedence-order: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/generic-function-argument-precedence-order.html 2014-12-01T03:28:22Z xrash quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T03:31:35Z henesy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T03:32:51Z xrash joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:33:20Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2014-12-01T03:33:52Z xrash quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T03:34:45Z blahzik joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:36:28Z drmeister: beach: Got it. 2014-12-01T03:37:05Z drmeister: What package is *compiler* in? 2014-12-01T03:37:19Z drmeister: I guess I can figure that out 2014-12-01T03:37:28Z drmeister: What does binding it to CL:EVAL do? 2014-12-01T03:38:16Z beach: The package is CLEAVIR-GENERATE-AST. 2014-12-01T03:39:23Z beach: CL:COMPILE and CL:EVAL do the same thing. They only process the body of EVAL-WHEN if the situation is :EXECUTE or EVAL. 2014-12-01T03:45:05Z henesy joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:46:25Z kapil__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:46:33Z xrash joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:46:40Z yrdz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T03:47:45Z blahzik quit (Quit: blahzik) 2014-12-01T03:48:41Z yrdz joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:52:04Z vinleod joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:53:41Z zxq9 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:54:40Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:56:11Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-12-01T03:56:29Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-12-01T03:56:36Z goldenlight joined #lisp 2014-12-01T03:56:51Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-01T03:56:54Z drmeister: beach: Got it - thank you. 2014-12-01T04:01:20Z goldenlight quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-01T04:07:18Z cositta joined #lisp 2014-12-01T04:08:30Z xrash quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T04:09:02Z selat quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-12-01T04:09:56Z jusss quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-01T04:10:20Z alexey1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T04:10:23Z adlai joined #lisp 2014-12-01T04:12:34Z xrash joined #lisp 2014-12-01T04:13:15Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-01T04:14:49Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T04:20:44Z drmeister: I am doing tricksy things on the C++ stack, using _builtin_alloca to allocate runtime size arrays on the stack, passing tagged pointers to the stack allocated array down the stack. Bjarne Stroustrup would be apoplectic. 2014-12-01T04:21:21Z drmeister: We have a bot in our midst "cositta". 2014-12-01T04:21:45Z drmeister: I'm doing this to optimize generic function dispatch. 2014-12-01T04:25:46Z atgreen joined #lisp 2014-12-01T04:27:14Z Lowl3v3l quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T04:39:38Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T04:42:24Z vinleod quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2014-12-01T04:43:03Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-01T04:48:43Z drmeister: Could we implement Common Lisp using only function return for stack unwinding? Maybe by returning an out-of-band return value that indicated a stack-unwinding return? 2014-12-01T04:49:07Z Bike: bla bla lambda calculus turing power, i think. 2014-12-01T04:49:20Z Bike: actually CPS would be easiest. 2014-12-01T04:49:47Z drmeister: I ask because Clang doesn't support C++ exception handling on Windows yet. If I wanted to port Clasp to Windows I'd have to come up with some other way to unwind the stack. 2014-12-01T04:51:21Z drmeister: It's common to turn off exception handling in high performance C++ code for chemistry. 2014-12-01T04:51:23Z beach: It doesn't implement setjmp/longjmp? 2014-12-01T04:51:36Z drmeister: setjmp/longjmp is not compatible with C++. 2014-12-01T04:51:55Z beach: Maybe so, but you can use it to unwind the stack. 2014-12-01T04:52:11Z drmeister: It breaks RAII (Resource Allocation Is Initialization). 2014-12-01T04:52:25Z Bike: been doing that in my toy lisp. it's neat, and also really ugly 2014-12-01T04:52:30Z beach: The C++ world has many restrictions, it seems. 2014-12-01T04:52:37Z Bike: drmeister: well does it actually work? 2014-12-01T04:52:49Z drmeister: Does what actually work? 2014-12-01T04:53:06Z Bike: setjmp/longjmp. 2014-12-01T04:53:19Z Bike: work in the sense of runs, not in the sense of preserves C++ style or whatever. 2014-12-01T04:54:00Z beach: As in "Does Clang on Windows support setjmp/longjmp?"? 2014-12-01T04:54:22Z drmeister: The longjmp will work but everything will crash horribly really soon after you do a longjmp. Does that count as working? 2014-12-01T04:54:37Z Bike: probably not. 2014-12-01T04:54:46Z Bike: i'm kind of wondering how exception handling can work with raii if setjmp doesn't. 2014-12-01T04:54:57Z Bike: not that i know anything about raii, of course. 2014-12-01T04:55:37Z drmeister: Exception handling very carefully unwinds the stack with lots of cleanup code that releases resources as the exception makes its way up the stack. 2014-12-01T04:55:51Z Bike: Oh, so that's why it's notoriously slow. Good to know. 2014-12-01T04:55:54Z drmeister: That's why it's not supported yet on Windows. It's complicated. 2014-12-01T04:56:36Z drmeister: Yup, "zero cost" until you try to use it. 2014-12-01T04:56:48Z drmeister: You pay for what you use. 2014-12-01T04:57:08Z drmeister: Exception handling in Windows is very different from *nix. 2014-12-01T04:57:28Z drmeister: Or x86 - I don't know what uses what. 2014-12-01T04:57:48Z drmeister: OS X and Linux use the same exception handling scheme. 2014-12-01T04:58:24Z Bike: i think that's more of an OS thing than a processor thing. and they probably both use nixy things. 2014-12-01T04:58:50Z karswell` is now known as karswell 2014-12-01T05:01:18Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T05:01:44Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:02:05Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:06:26Z axion: how can i unintern all :around and :after methods of a generic function? 2014-12-01T05:06:54Z axion: and it seems cositta is sending spam when i message 2014-12-01T05:06:56Z beach: axion: You don't "unintern" methods. 2014-12-01T05:07:14Z Bike: i think you need mop. 2014-12-01T05:07:15Z beach: axion: Do you mean remove them from the generic function? 2014-12-01T05:07:23Z axion: yes 2014-12-01T05:07:24Z Bike: mop g-f-m 2014-12-01T05:07:24Z specbot: generic-function-methods: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/generic-function-methods.html 2014-12-01T05:07:29Z H4ns: axion: it is probably easiest to fmakunbound the function 2014-12-01T05:07:32Z axion: i accidentally defined an after method i dont want anymore 2014-12-01T05:07:40Z H4ns: axion: and then redefine those methods that you need. 2014-12-01T05:07:45Z Bike: mop method-qualifiers 2014-12-01T05:07:45Z specbot: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/method-qualifiers.html 2014-12-01T05:08:05Z beach: clhs find-method 2014-12-01T05:08:05Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_m.htm 2014-12-01T05:08:12Z Bike: yeah, but that only works on one. 2014-12-01T05:08:31Z beach: Fair enough. 2014-12-01T05:08:31Z axion: hmmm 2014-12-01T05:09:25Z Bike: if you wanted all of them it would be, uh... (mapc (lambda (m) (let ((q (method-qualifiers m))) (when (or (find :around q) (find :after q)) (remove-method gf m)))) (generic-function-method gf)) 2014-12-01T05:09:54Z beach: mop g-f-m 2014-12-01T05:09:54Z specbot: generic-function-methods: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/generic-function-methods.html 2014-12-01T05:10:04Z beach: You forgot an "s". 2014-12-01T05:10:18Z Bike: shame! shaaaaame 2014-12-01T05:10:33Z axion: i just want to remove 1 :after method. still trying :) 2014-12-01T05:10:45Z Bike: oh, then just find-method it and remove-method it. 2014-12-01T05:11:00Z axion: yeah trying to understand find-method atm 2014-12-01T05:11:01Z Bike: actually i think the inspector might let you do that. 2014-12-01T05:11:17Z H4ns: isn't there an undefmethod somewhere, that just accepts defmethod syntax? 2014-12-01T05:12:42Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:13:16Z oleo is now known as Guest47763 2014-12-01T05:14:14Z H4ns: maybe http://cl-www.msi.co.jp:8000/cl-http/sources/acl/obc/server/undefmethod.lisp 2014-12-01T05:14:34Z Guest47763 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T05:15:11Z manuel___ quit (Quit: manuel___) 2014-12-01T05:15:47Z axion: not sure that functionality is built into slime for vim 2014-12-01T05:15:58Z H4ns: http://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/3N 2014-12-01T05:16:02Z Bike: probably not, no 2014-12-01T05:16:14Z axion: (defmethod draw-tile :after (shape x y &key layer) 2014-12-01T05:16:22Z axion: trying to remove that without restarting my image 2014-12-01T05:16:35Z axion: cant seem to get the qualifiers/specializers right 2014-12-01T05:16:37Z Bike: easiest is probably just fmakunbounding it and redefining the methods, like h4ns said. 2014-12-01T05:16:53Z Bike: specializers is (mapcar #'find-class '(t t t)), qualifiers is '(:after) 2014-12-01T05:17:06Z kuanyui quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-01T05:19:15Z axion: its saying there is no method with qualifiers (:AFTER) and specializers (#1=# #1# #1#). yet it is calling the :after method in code 2014-12-01T05:19:43Z Bike: what implementation is this? 2014-12-01T05:19:48Z axion: sbcl 2014-12-01T05:20:03Z Bike: do (sb-mop:generic-function-methods #'draw-tile), what's it say 2014-12-01T05:20:17Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:20:28Z axion: (#) 2014-12-01T05:20:38Z axion: i want the around, i want to get rid of the after 2014-12-01T05:20:42Z Bike: okay, so... you don't hav ean after method on it. 2014-12-01T05:20:48Z Bike: there's nothing to remove. it's gone. 2014-12-01T05:20:51Z axion: well why is it calling after? 2014-12-01T05:20:55Z Bike: It's not. 2014-12-01T05:21:12Z axion: 0: ((:METHOD #:DRAW-TILE :AFTER (T T T)) # # # :LAYER NIL) [fast-method] 2014-12-01T05:21:23Z axion: my code fails and thats the last frame 2014-12-01T05:21:39Z Bike: did you unintern draw-tile at some point? 2014-12-01T05:21:39Z milosn joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:21:46Z axion: might have 2014-12-01T05:21:57Z Bike: because that's #:draw-tile, not draw-tile. 2014-12-01T05:22:17Z axion: weird 2014-12-01T05:22:30Z Bike: try recompiling the code that calls draw-tile. 2014-12-01T05:23:06Z axion: Compilation finished. (No warnings) 2014-12-01T05:23:12Z axion: still trying to run :AFTER 2014-12-01T05:23:48Z Bike: ok, you did something weird to your image in your attempts to remove it. just restart the thing unless it's keeping someone alive or whatever. 2014-12-01T05:24:50Z axion: k, thanks for the help 2014-12-01T05:27:40Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight) 2014-12-01T05:33:36Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T05:34:41Z holycow joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:35:18Z yuikov joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:35:32Z yuikov quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-01T05:38:35Z yuikov joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:39:32Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T05:39:40Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:46:12Z davazp quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T05:46:37Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-01T05:47:35Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:47:35Z pranavrc quit (Changing host) 2014-12-01T05:47:35Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:53:28Z a20141129 quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-12-01T05:56:51Z selat joined #lisp 2014-12-01T05:58:51Z selat quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T06:01:21Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-12-01T06:06:37Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T06:06:50Z holycow quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T06:07:12Z holycow joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:07:21Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T06:07:36Z holycow is now known as Guest6824 2014-12-01T06:09:06Z selat joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:10:38Z selat quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T06:11:06Z Guest6824 quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-12-01T06:11:10Z alexey1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:14:18Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:15:52Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-01T06:17:49Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:19:21Z Grue` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-01T06:26:46Z Grue` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:27:13Z yuikov joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:30:08Z boogie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T06:31:37Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:34:26Z boogie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T06:45:35Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:46:35Z Harag1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:48:12Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-01T06:57:28Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-12-01T06:59:45Z kurakot quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-12-01T06:59:58Z beach left #lisp 2014-12-01T07:00:07Z c74d quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T07:04:38Z kurakot joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:06:40Z c74d joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:14:52Z Harag1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T07:17:40Z keen____ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T07:18:08Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T07:19:38Z keen____ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:21:00Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:21:52Z psy quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-12-01T07:23:24Z zRecursive quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T07:23:41Z psy joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:27:22Z kub4 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-01T07:32:17Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T07:33:31Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:35:18Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:37:14Z henesy quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2014-12-01T07:37:41Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T07:39:02Z impulse joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:39:22Z nostoi joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:40:41Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T07:41:14Z Beetny joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:47:33Z MoALTz_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-01T07:57:14Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-12-01T07:57:41Z Shinmera: axion: You can also use my undefmethod macro http://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/3N 2014-12-01T07:58:11Z Shinmera: Can someone kick/ban cositta please? Yet another spam bot. 2014-12-01T08:01:00Z Bike: i think you could use lambda-list-keywords. and mop:extract-specializer-names, maybe 2014-12-01T08:02:21Z ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 2014-12-01T08:02:58Z Zhivago has set mode -b *!*DiNoALaCo@*.anonima.empleosonora.gob.mx 2014-12-01T08:03:15Z Zhivago has set mode +b cositta!*@* 2014-12-01T08:03:20Z Shinmera: Thank you. 2014-12-01T08:03:36Z cositta [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has been kicked from #lisp by Zhivago (Are you a human being or a cabbage in disguise?) 2014-12-01T08:03:47Z Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 2014-12-01T08:12:18Z alexey1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T08:16:12Z leo2007 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T08:16:13Z blahzik joined #lisp 2014-12-01T08:16:58Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T08:22:14Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-01T08:23:54Z Cymew joined #lisp 2014-12-01T08:25:11Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2014-12-01T08:25:24Z meiji11 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T08:36:04Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T08:41:20Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-01T08:52:51Z arenz joined #lisp 2014-12-01T08:54:43Z zacharias quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-12-01T08:56:00Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2014-12-01T08:59:43Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:03:56Z girrig quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T09:10:17Z ASau joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:13:38Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:13:58Z emlow joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:14:16Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:14:16Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T09:14:56Z gabot quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-01T09:15:05Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:15:30Z gabot joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:19:43Z schaueho joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:19:44Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T09:20:19Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-12-01T09:21:37Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:21:46Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime) 2014-12-01T09:22:28Z tessier_ quit (Changing host) 2014-12-01T09:22:28Z tessier_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:23:02Z chaotic_good: wow weblocks and kpax look c00l 2014-12-01T09:23:12Z chaotic_good: uncommon eb too 2014-12-01T09:23:41Z chaotic_good: wuwei jsframework.. 2014-12-01T09:24:07Z H4ns: chaotic_good: can you please use the english language to communicate in this channel? thank you. 2014-12-01T09:25:32Z emlow quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 2014-12-01T09:28:15Z chaotic_good: I am 2014-12-01T09:28:53Z chaotic_good: Are you not so good with ze english? Herr Hanz? 2014-12-01T09:30:17Z Shinmera: He is very good at it 2014-12-01T09:30:24Z Shinmera: But you're being annoying. 2014-12-01T09:30:37Z chaotic_good: I admire making the trains run on time, but think that unregulatd capitalism is even more efficient than national socialism. Mainly due to the calculation problem. 2014-12-01T09:32:30Z emlow joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:36:50Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:37:32Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:38:53Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T09:40:16Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:40:58Z chaotic_good: shinmera Who knows what annoys you? 2014-12-01T09:41:34Z wglb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-01T09:42:10Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T09:45:43Z chaotic_good: Websites powered by lisp, what a great subject. 2014-12-01T09:45:44Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:47:12Z blahzik quit (Quit: blahzik) 2014-12-01T09:47:53Z nha joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:48:58Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:48:58Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T09:50:39Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:50:59Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:53:36Z nostoi quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-12-01T09:53:36Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T09:54:28Z kuanyui joined #lisp 2014-12-01T09:55:41Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:05:59Z sol__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:05:59Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T10:07:37Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:08:31Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:09:24Z yuikov joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:12:48Z tcr joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:13:01Z alexey1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:17:17Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T10:19:51Z friedAy joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:19:51Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T10:20:07Z friedAy is now known as shortCircuit__ 2014-12-01T10:20:34Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:21:36Z codeberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T10:22:22Z codeberg joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:27:17Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T10:27:49Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T10:28:27Z echo-area quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T10:32:50Z araujo joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:33:52Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-01T10:33:52Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T10:34:44Z francogrex joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:34:52Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:36:00Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T10:36:00Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T10:37:34Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:38:03Z corni joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:38:03Z corni quit (Changing host) 2014-12-01T10:38:03Z corni joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:38:07Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:38:17Z wjiang quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-01T10:39:43Z kennedyj joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:40:30Z francogrex: what's this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/144537 2014-12-01T10:41:39Z Shinmera: Looks like your emacs/slime encoding is not proper. 2014-12-01T10:42:04Z francogrex: indeed emacs not recognize utf-8 or utf-16le 2014-12-01T10:42:04Z ghard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T10:42:40Z Shinmera: Try in emacs: (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) 2014-12-01T10:42:46Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-01T10:42:57Z chriskohlhepp joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:43:21Z Shinmera: (you'll have to restart your inferior-lisp for that to take effect, I'm pretty sure) 2014-12-01T10:43:41Z Shinmera: And I mean in emacs, not in the slime-REPL 2014-12-01T10:46:20Z pt1_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:46:21Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T10:46:27Z francogrex: Shinmera: ok but slime not here, what's the equivalent for no slime 2014-12-01T10:46:44Z Shinmera: I don't understand what you mean 2014-12-01T10:46:56Z francogrex: I don't use slime 2014-12-01T10:47:11Z francogrex: simple emacs' inferior lisp 2014-12-01T10:47:19Z Shinmera: I don't know then. 2014-12-01T10:47:25Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:47:56Z francogrex: ok will have to look in slime src to see what the net-condining system will be on top of 2014-12-01T10:48:34Z yuikov joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:48:48Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2014-12-01T10:49:26Z selat joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:49:54Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-01T10:52:48Z msmith: I'm trying to include custom packages in a sbcl shell script. would anyone mind having a look? http://paste.lisp.org/+33IY 2014-12-01T10:52:48Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T10:53:40Z H4ns: msmith: i donät see where zou load the scheduler package 2014-12-01T10:53:57Z H4ns: msmith: also :components, not :compenents 2014-12-01T10:54:25Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T10:55:19Z H4ns: and i really should have channel specific keyboard layouts :) 2014-12-01T10:56:38Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T10:56:47Z jusss quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T10:58:42Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:01:00Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-01T11:03:40Z rszeno joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:07:04Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T11:09:15Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:09:15Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T11:10:11Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:10:33Z msmith: H4ns: yeah, that was one problem. I'm now loading it in .sbclrc with quicklisp. Although I'm not sure about having to load these packages every time I start sbcl 2014-12-01T11:10:56Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:11:09Z stepnem joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:12:13Z msmith: Anyone know the easiest way to use absolute paths when including asdf component files? 2014-12-01T11:12:14Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T11:13:04Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:13:40Z chu joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:14:53Z H4ns: msmith: i would recommend building an image with your software rather than loading it from source every time you use it. 2014-12-01T11:14:53Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T11:14:59Z H4ns: msmith: buildapp can help with that. 2014-12-01T11:16:40Z msmith: ok, I'l do that. Any input on this? the easiest way to use absolute paths when including asdf component files? 2014-12-01T11:16:42Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:20:10Z kjeldahl joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:20:59Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:21:26Z dim: I would think absolute paths in asdf files defeat the purpose 2014-12-01T11:21:55Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:24:31Z msmith: dim: why do you say that? 2014-12-01T11:24:31Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T11:25:47Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:27:04Z pjb: - 2014-12-01T11:27:04Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T11:27:47Z Lowl3v3l joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:27:53Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:35:17Z maxpeck quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-01T11:35:17Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T11:35:34Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:37:16Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:37:45Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:38:16Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:39:40Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T11:40:15Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:41:37Z Ethan- quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T11:41:37Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T11:42:22Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:42:26Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:43:17Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T11:43:37Z harish joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:51:41Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-01T11:51:41Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T11:52:36Z BaconOverflow joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:53:17Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T11:53:55Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:54:52Z dim: msmith: asdf is all about relocatable code, isn't it? 2014-12-01T11:56:17Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T11:57:33Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T11:58:17Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:03:16Z xristos quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:05:30Z theos quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:05:30Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T12:05:39Z Guest92421 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:05:55Z eudoxia_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:05:55Z eudoxia quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T12:06:09Z eudoxia_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-01T12:06:18Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:07:29Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:07:50Z francogrex quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-12-01T12:08:40Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T12:09:31Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:13:53Z alexey1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:14:37Z _5kg_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:15:13Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:17:58Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:18:12Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:22:33Z edgar-rft quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:22:49Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:27:22Z echo-area joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:28:01Z kjeldahl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:28:02Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:28:47Z kjeldahl joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:30:38Z alexey1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:32:42Z Baggers joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:33:11Z jewel_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:35:05Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:35:05Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T12:35:34Z Xach: msmith: as you've seen, --script disables reading .sbclrc 2014-12-01T12:36:01Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:36:46Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:37:00Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:39:04Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:43:29Z josemanuel joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:44:15Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:44:20Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:45:46Z dfox quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:51:05Z felipe joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:51:05Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T12:51:39Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:52:24Z dfox joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:52:40Z karswell` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:52:41Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T12:52:48Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:53:35Z sheilong quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-12-01T12:53:50Z felipe is now known as sheilong 2014-12-01T12:55:28Z corni quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:55:51Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T12:57:24Z harish joined #lisp 2014-12-01T12:58:52Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T13:00:36Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-12-01T13:07:02Z msmith: Xach: hey, maybe you can help me. I'm using buildapp but it's not finding my systems dependencies, like postmodern. How can I point it to them? 2014-12-01T13:07:18Z Xach: msmith: How did you install postmodern? 2014-12-01T13:07:34Z msmith: quicklisp 2014-12-01T13:07:40Z Xach: msmith: here's what I do 2014-12-01T13:08:04Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:08:23Z Xach: sbcl --non-interactive --no-userinit --no-sysinit --load ~/quicklisp/setup.lisp --eval '(ql:write-asdf-manifest-file "system-index.txt")' 2014-12-01T13:08:31Z rszeno quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T13:08:33Z Xach: then in buildapp i use --manifest-file system-index.txt 2014-12-01T13:09:01Z Xach: i do that in a makefile, usually. 2014-12-01T13:10:14Z Xach wonders about baking that into buildapp so it can be shorter 2014-12-01T13:10:28Z msmith: Xach: ok thanks 2014-12-01T13:10:48Z hitecnologys_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:13:30Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-01T13:13:30Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T13:13:30Z hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys 2014-12-01T13:14:32Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:15:40Z yuikov joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:15:40Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T13:16:34Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:16:46Z rivrkeepr joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:17:44Z manuel____ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:17:57Z pjb: - 2014-12-01T13:19:06Z pranavrc quit 2014-12-01T13:21:17Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T13:24:36Z msmith: Xach: That's a nice little program. Got it working but had to remove log4cl as a dependency. was getting a SB-POSIX does not designate any package with it in there. 2014-12-01T13:25:04Z doki-worry joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:26:03Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:26:30Z eudoxia_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:27:05Z H4ns: msmith: what version of sbcl are you using? 2014-12-01T13:27:56Z msmith: H4ns: 1.14.14.debian 2014-12-01T13:28:05Z chu joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:28:07Z msmith: 1.1.14 2014-12-01T13:29:10Z H4ns: interesting. the sb-posix package should be available with that version, but as you're using a debian build, maybe not. 2014-12-01T13:30:22Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-01T13:30:22Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T13:30:50Z Petit_Dejeuner__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:31:07Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:31:08Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:31:13Z cibs quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T13:31:50Z cibs joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:32:34Z Jubb joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:33:46Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T13:33:46Z kurakot quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-12-01T13:33:48Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T13:35:01Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:36:09Z Ethan- quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T13:36:09Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T13:36:53Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: Client Quit) 2014-12-01T13:38:01Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:38:10Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:39:50Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:40:35Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:43:19Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-01T13:43:20Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T13:44:29Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:44:35Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:44:37Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T13:45:28Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:46:52Z eudoxia_ quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-12-01T13:50:56Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-01T13:50:56Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T13:52:48Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:54:38Z Xach: msmith: hmm. does --require sb-posix help? 2014-12-01T13:54:55Z Xach can't remember if sb-posix is baked in 2014-12-01T13:55:32Z H4ns: it is not, you're right. 2014-12-01T13:56:12Z pt1_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T13:58:02Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:58:32Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-12-01T13:59:48Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T14:00:46Z shortCircuit__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T14:01:00Z BaconOverflow quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-01T14:02:42Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:03:53Z w37 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:04:19Z _5kg_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-01T14:04:23Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:04:40Z wg1024 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:05:45Z Guest92421 left #lisp 2014-12-01T14:05:55Z xristos joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:06:14Z wg1024 quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-01T14:06:56Z wg1024 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:07:27Z Shinmera: Strange that it passes the quicklisp build test though if it doesn't properly require sb-posix.. 2014-12-01T14:07:34Z zeitue quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-01T14:07:40Z dim: pgloader, pgcharts and ql-to-deb all produce a manifest file in their Makefile to use with buildapp, FWIW 2014-12-01T14:08:05Z dim: https://github.com/dimitri/ql-to-deb/blob/master/Makefile might be relevant here 2014-12-01T14:08:25Z dim: along with https://github.com/dimitri/ql-to-deb/blob/master/debian/rules 2014-12-01T14:08:26Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:10:11Z wg1024 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T14:10:31Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-01T14:11:03Z Xach: Shinmera: no, there are some flaws in how quicklisp does build testing. it bakes in most contribs. 2014-12-01T14:11:07Z wg1024 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:11:19Z Xach: Shinmera: that leads to problems with several projects that assume sb-introspect is present (because it usually is, when slime is loaded) 2014-12-01T14:11:43Z Xach: I suspect many people test within slime, not knowing it pulls in several contribs that otherwise need to be required. 2014-12-01T14:11:48Z cluck joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:14:21Z Shinmera: Xach: Ah, alright. 2014-12-01T14:14:21Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T14:15:36Z alexey1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T14:15:43Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:16:44Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:17:49Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T14:19:05Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:21:17Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T14:22:15Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:22:35Z sol__ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-01T14:23:27Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T14:23:27Z normanrichards quit 2014-12-01T14:25:16Z pavelpenev quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-01T14:25:48Z pavelpenev joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:25:52Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T14:26:26Z ivan4th: Shinmera: it's an open issue in log4cl https://github.com/7max/log4cl/issues/25 2014-12-01T14:28:55Z lemoinem joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:29:12Z eudoxia: >Feb 20 2014-12-01T14:29:15Z eudoxia: jesus christ 2014-12-01T14:29:40Z H4ns: interesting. maxm seems to have completely vanished from github. 2014-12-01T14:29:52Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-01T14:30:18Z Xach: maybe he got a job :( 2014-12-01T14:30:46Z H4ns: too bad. 2014-12-01T14:31:33Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:32:40Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T14:33:49Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:34:18Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:36:50Z manuel____ quit (Quit: manuel____) 2014-12-01T14:36:50Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T14:37:53Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:39:39Z thawes quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T14:40:29Z oGMo: tcr: ? 2014-12-01T14:40:34Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:42:52Z doki-worry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T14:44:31Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:45:46Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T14:45:46Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T14:46:42Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:48:41Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-12-01T14:49:37Z _5kg_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:52:02Z pavelpenev quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2014-12-01T14:53:20Z tcr: oGMo: I think interval:find-all does not work correctly. After (run :basic-insertion) in the test-suite, try (interval:find-all *aa* (cons 0 100)), which should return all elements in the tree but only returns a small subset. 2014-12-01T14:53:32Z pavelpenev joined #lisp 2014-12-01T14:53:58Z oGMo: tcr: are you trittweiler..? 2014-12-01T14:54:25Z tcr: yeah 2014-12-01T14:54:39Z oGMo: cool k, just wondering if this was related or something new heh 2014-12-01T14:55:07Z tcr: well, that bug is not introduced by my commits :) 2014-12-01T14:55:18Z oGMo: (i'm reading through the commits now) 2014-12-01T14:55:21Z oGMo: sure 2014-12-01T14:56:40Z oGMo: sadly i haven't really used this much beyond implementing buffer-tree .. which i also don't use much.. so not enough real use to work out the bugs ;/ 2014-12-01T14:57:26Z socksy quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-12-01T14:58:46Z pavelpenev quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2014-12-01T15:00:20Z pavelpenev joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:00:53Z oGMo: tcr: yeah confirmed, i'm pretty sure this is skipping subtrees or something, will check 2014-12-01T15:01:02Z oGMo: check = fix 2014-12-01T15:02:40Z tcr: If you allow to give a snarky comment, it might be related of the way checkl works. :> Not that its modus operandi doesn't have any merit, but storing test results in an external database might be good for regression testings, but doesn't work perhaps too well on functional tests. :) 2014-12-01T15:03:32Z wg1024 left #lisp 2014-12-01T15:03:35Z oGMo: tcr: well, more a matter of how the test was written in the first place 2014-12-01T15:03:45Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:04:16Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T15:04:26Z tcr: Definitively. But it does prevent a casual reader of the test definitions to see if anything fishy is going on :) 2014-12-01T15:04:43Z doki-worry joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:05:40Z tcr: I can see its merits during development, though. 2014-12-01T15:06:29Z oGMo: possibly, i mean, you can evaluate the test and look at the results, but i'm not sure having hard-coded values is going to be any more informative 2014-12-01T15:07:04Z oGMo: really the tests should actually go through the tree and verify it, but i was being lazy here 2014-12-01T15:07:28Z oGMo: though i thought for one of these i actually did that .. hrm 2014-12-01T15:07:38Z krrrcks joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:07:54Z tcr: I think the tree is valid, the problem are the conditionals in find-any 2014-12-01T15:09:18Z oGMo: oh, i did write a node-validate, but that really only tests the tree validity 2014-12-01T15:12:59Z stacksmith joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:13:00Z oGMo: err yeah (rereading this code), the right-tree test doesn't look right at a glance 2014-12-01T15:14:19Z fe[nl]ix: hi tcr 2014-12-01T15:14:26Z tcr: hey :) 2014-12-01T15:14:37Z thawes quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T15:14:43Z thawes_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:15:30Z luis: tcr: hey! 2014-12-01T15:16:47Z tcr: luis: I was in Lisbon and Porto in September. Really nice country! I liked it a lot, in particular Porto. 2014-12-01T15:16:52Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-12-01T15:18:12Z beetlebum joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:19:24Z luis: And you didn't say anything? tsk tsk 2014-12-01T15:19:24Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T15:20:18Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:20:52Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:21:29Z splittist: he was on a mime trip 2014-12-01T15:21:34Z luis: Business or travel? 2014-12-01T15:21:47Z luis: splittist: eheh 2014-12-01T15:22:02Z luis: business or leisure, rather 2014-12-01T15:22:08Z tcr: holiday 2014-12-01T15:22:16Z Lowl3v3l quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-01T15:25:14Z luis: tcr: and, what's new lisp-wise? (to get things back on-topic) 2014-12-01T15:25:26Z beetlebum quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T15:25:55Z doki-worry quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-01T15:28:33Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T15:28:33Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T15:28:40Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:28:59Z antonv joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:30:09Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:30:12Z tcr: luis: Shouldn't I ask that question? :) 2014-12-01T15:30:37Z thawes_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T15:30:44Z doki-worry joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:30:49Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:31:52Z jweiss joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:31:52Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T15:31:59Z luis: tcr: well, I've not been the most active of lispers in the past couple of years either. But.. SLIME is on GitHub and MELPA. Yay? 2014-12-01T15:32:34Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:32:43Z tcr: yeah I saw that. I'm meant to update our version, and also the version of sbcl. It's been 5 years :) 2014-12-01T15:32:58Z jweiss: is there a fairly standard way to define a project (dependencies, main function to run ,etc)? I'm accustomed to clojure so looking for CL's equiv of leiningen 2014-12-01T15:33:33Z luis: jweiss: ASDF 2014-12-01T15:34:02Z jweiss: ok thanks, wasn't sure if there was something higher level than that, i'd seen http://www.xach.com/lisp/quickproject/ 2014-12-01T15:34:15Z Shinmera: quicklisp is fairly high-level 2014-12-01T15:34:15Z Xach: jweiss: ASDF is the way to express relationships within a project and between a project and its supporting projects. 2014-12-01T15:34:18Z Shinmera: *ASDF 2014-12-01T15:34:30Z Xach: jweiss: quicklisp is a way to automatically fetch projects on demand 2014-12-01T15:34:43Z yuikov joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:35:10Z jweiss: Xach: Shinmera: luis: thanks, i'll take a look at that 2014-12-01T15:35:34Z Xach: quickproject is a way to set up some of the project infrastructure of a bare project quickly. there are other programs that do a similar thing. 2014-12-01T15:36:37Z Shinmera: jweiss: I wrote a short article about an introduction to ASDF. Maybe that will help you. http://blog.tymoon.eu/article/267 2014-12-01T15:36:38Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T15:37:05Z luis: jweiss: regarding a main function to run, defsystem takes an :entry-point option. There's some info about that here: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#index-compile_002dbundle_002dop 2014-12-01T15:37:32Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:37:38Z doki-worry quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-01T15:37:43Z vinleod joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:38:14Z fe[nl]ix: luis: wow, I didn't know about that 2014-12-01T15:38:36Z luis: Me neither. Just looked it up. Haven't actually used it. :) 2014-12-01T15:38:59Z Xach: That should indicate to jweiss that its use is not common/widely known 2014-12-01T15:39:04Z Xach had no idea that was a thing 2014-12-01T15:39:29Z Shinmera: I didn't know about it either, but it only seems to be for when you create bundles, which people usually don't do with ASDF directly to begin with, as far as I'm aware. 2014-12-01T15:39:37Z luis: jweiss: right, take this with a grain of salt. My advice would be to get used to the basic usage of ASDF and look it into this later. 2014-12-01T15:39:57Z jweiss: luis: will do, thanks. 2014-12-01T15:40:06Z Shinmera is really sad that ASDF has so much to offer that's just lost to the depths of obscurity 2014-12-01T15:40:23Z Xach: there has to be a pony in here somewhere! 2014-12-01T15:40:30Z luis: Shinmera: well, this is an ASDF 3 feature. 2014-12-01T15:40:34Z Shinmera feels even more eager to understand all of ASDF some day and write a comprehensive guide on it. 2014-12-01T15:41:00Z luis: It mustn't be very obscure because I found it pretty quickly using Google. 2014-12-01T15:41:12Z luis: The ASDF manual can be a bit dense for sure, but still... 2014-12-01T15:41:16Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:41:17Z yuikov quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T15:41:24Z kapil__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-01T15:41:43Z Shinmera: Just because you can google it doesn't mean it isn't obscure. 2014-12-01T15:41:46Z luis is feeling the yearly urge to blog about Lisp 2014-12-01T15:41:49Z jweiss: was also looking to get confirmation from someone that to get functionality like this, assert(all(odd, [1,3, 5, 7, 8])) and get "failed, 8 is not odd", most languages utterly fail to be able to handle this, because you have to be able to parse the expression and have it understand what "all" does. 2014-12-01T15:42:46Z luis: jweiss: (assert (every #'oddp '(1 3 5 7 8))) ? 2014-12-01T15:43:08Z tcr quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-01T15:43:10Z Xach: luis: That's not quite the same. 2014-12-01T15:43:30Z jweiss: luis - yeah basically. but i don't think that the built in assert does anything special if 'every is in the first position of the expression. 2014-12-01T15:43:32Z Cymew: ASDF3 is a bit of a step up from v2, so I'm not surprised its features are not well known and used yet 2014-12-01T15:43:32Z Shinmera: (loop for i in '(1 3 5 7 8) unless (oddp i) do (error "~a is not odd!" i)) 2014-12-01T15:43:47Z luis: Oh, I see. 2014-12-01T15:43:55Z jweiss: however i am sure it's easy to write, i wrote one in clojure. 2014-12-01T15:44:54Z Shinmera: jweiss: I think usually in such a case you'd write a check-all or similar function. 2014-12-01T15:45:23Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:45:29Z jweiss: Shinmera: yeah you can do it either way, i kind of like not having to remember which function to call 2014-12-01T15:45:47Z jweiss: there are some very common cases, like every, some etc 2014-12-01T15:45:50Z Shinmera: Assert doesn't do anything fancy, for better or worse. 2014-12-01T15:45:58Z luis: jweiss: test frameworks usually have a macro like that. 2014-12-01T15:46:07Z Krystof: (assert (not (find-if-not #'oddp '(1 3 5 7 8)))) 2014-12-01T15:46:25Z Krystof: "The assertion (NOT (FIND-IF-NOT #'ODDP '(1 3 5 7 8))) failed with (FIND-IF-NOT #'ODDP '(1 3 5 7 8)) = 8" 2014-12-01T15:46:29Z jweiss: luis: ok good to know someone's already done that (probably) 2014-12-01T15:46:49Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-01T15:47:26Z jweiss: Krystof: is that an actual output? it's not as clear as every, but good to know 2014-12-01T15:47:32Z luis: jweiss: http://paste.lisp.org/+33J0 2014-12-01T15:47:39Z Krystof: it is an actual output 2014-12-01T15:48:13Z jweiss: luis: that's good but it doesn't tell you which one failed. 2014-12-01T15:48:57Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T15:48:59Z luis: Right, I suppose IS could be extended to be smarter about specific predicates. 2014-12-01T15:49:33Z jweiss: yeah anyway, i know it can be done, just want to make sure that when i claim lisp makes this easier than almost any other language, i'm not wrong :) 2014-12-01T15:50:00Z jweiss: i'm sure there are other homoiconic langs but most of them are even less popular than lisp so i can ignore them 2014-12-01T15:50:29Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:50:46Z thawes quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T15:50:57Z luis: jweiss: you should ask that question to experts in other languages. :) 2014-12-01T15:51:01Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:52:22Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T15:52:30Z jweiss: haha yeah, i have. they basically say "why would you want to do that", because if you can't do it in blub, you shouldn't need to do it at all. 2014-12-01T15:52:58Z luis: Message passing languages (like Ruby for instance) might intercept messages to achieve a similar effect. 2014-12-01T15:53:06Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:53:07Z Xach: Sometimes "why would you want to do that?" means "there's a way to get what you want if you tell me what you really want." 2014-12-01T15:53:29Z jweiss: Xach: i don't know, have you ever hung out in the python channel? 2014-12-01T15:53:42Z luis: But, hey, I agree with you that Lisp excels at this kind of thing. :) 2014-12-01T15:54:22Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T15:54:34Z jweiss: of course i have no way of knowing if people who call themselves experts actually are. 2014-12-01T15:55:23Z Xach: jweiss: Sometimes "why would you want to do that?" means "That's too hard to do so I've rationalized it as undesirable." 2014-12-01T15:55:27Z LiamH: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem 2014-12-01T15:55:52Z Xach: It can be hard to tell which it means sometimes. 2014-12-01T15:55:59Z jweiss: Xach: exactly 2014-12-01T15:56:29Z jweiss: in my case, i want to know why assertions failed, not just true/false 2014-12-01T15:56:39Z jweiss: that is perfectly legitimate to want 2014-12-01T15:57:14Z jweiss: so you need to know values of locals, and some contextual awareness (like what 'every means) helps too 2014-12-01T15:58:12Z thawes_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T15:58:13Z thawes quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-01T15:58:19Z jweiss: my overall goal is a testing lib that reduces the amount of output you actually have to read, to as close to zero as possible. 2014-12-01T15:58:33Z Xach: In Common Lisp? 2014-12-01T15:59:01Z jweiss: Xach: I'm not 100% sure CL is the best, but wanted to see how it goes 2014-12-01T15:59:16Z jweiss: i mean best choice for this particular application 2014-12-01T15:59:19Z rhollor joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:01:02Z jweiss: i've had to maintain test suites where one thing might break 300 tests. but you have to look at all 300 results. you can't be sure they all share the same root cause, until you examine all of them. that sucks and it is not necessary. 2014-12-01T16:02:04Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T16:02:04Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T16:02:40Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:03:42Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: existence expired because memory access terminated) 2014-12-01T16:04:33Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:05:22Z joneshf joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:07:43Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:07:43Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-12-01T16:07:43Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:07:44Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T16:08:49Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:09:57Z Adlai` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:09:57Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T16:10:44Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:10:48Z adlai quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-12-01T16:10:50Z Adlai` is now known as adlai 2014-12-01T16:12:26Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:14:59Z normanrichards quit 2014-12-01T16:14:59Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T16:15:52Z theseb joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:16:02Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-01T16:16:27Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:20:01Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:21:49Z jweiss is now known as jweiss_ 2014-12-01T16:23:40Z Lowl3v3l joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:26:17Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:26:17Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T16:27:09Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:27:13Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2014-12-01T16:27:13Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:34:12Z OTS joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:34:12Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T16:35:09Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:36:29Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T16:36:30Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T16:36:59Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-01T16:38:03Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:38:16Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:38:20Z Pixel_Outlaw joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:39:36Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-01T16:39:59Z arenz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T16:42:03Z gingerale joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:42:18Z arenz joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:48:32Z Lowl3v3l quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-01T16:51:04Z Lowl3v3l joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:51:04Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T16:52:45Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:54:04Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:54:04Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T16:54:43Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:57:15Z boogie quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-01T16:57:15Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T16:57:20Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-01T16:59:29Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:59:31Z satiric_rug joined #lisp 2014-12-01T16:59:34Z satiric_rug left #lisp 2014-12-01T17:01:26Z toors joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:01:57Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T17:02:36Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-12-01T17:02:51Z moei joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:03:27Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-01T17:07:51Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-12-01T17:07:51Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T17:09:01Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:10:42Z rhollor: is there a built-in range function? a function that returns a list from a to b? I made one as (defun range (x y) (loop for n from x to y collect n)) 2014-12-01T17:11:01Z Xach: rhollor: not built-in. 2014-12-01T17:11:05Z Bike: nope. there's one in alexandria, i think. 2014-12-01T17:11:06Z Xach: alexandria has one. 2014-12-01T17:11:13Z Xach: it is called iota 2014-12-01T17:11:15Z Bike: pretty much amounts to that loop 2014-12-01T17:11:28Z rhollor: kay then 2014-12-01T17:12:37Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T17:14:06Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-12-01T17:14:21Z moei joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:14:22Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:14:39Z genii joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:14:59Z thawes_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T17:15:03Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:15:22Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:17:09Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-01T17:17:23Z tharugrim quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-01T17:18:26Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:18:37Z jasom: Bike: I didn't write sexml 2014-12-01T17:18:54Z Bike: yeah, i saw, sorry for pinging you 2014-12-01T17:18:55Z tharugrim joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:22:25Z w37 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T17:25:31Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-01T17:27:10Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T17:29:10Z nighthacks joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:29:37Z kjeldahl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-01T17:30:00Z nighthacks: would anyone help me on my problem on this Gist https://gist.github.com/AmirHooshangi/496fc9aa782db700b652 ? 2014-12-01T17:31:55Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:31:57Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T17:32:16Z jasom: nighthacks: where are you getting "concat" from? That's not a standard function 2014-12-01T17:32:26Z Xach: That is an elisp error message. 2014-12-01T17:32:41Z jasom: oh, nighthacks try in #emacs 2014-12-01T17:32:42Z nighthacks: jasom: it's elisp 2014-12-01T17:32:43Z Xach: nighthacks: it's happening because the argument list is quoted. it never evaluates the CONCAT form. 2014-12-01T17:33:05Z Xach: nighthacks: if you used ` and , you could work around it, or construct the args via LIST and CONS. 2014-12-01T17:33:24Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:33:35Z nighthacks: Xach: thanks 2014-12-01T17:36:26Z lavokad joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:39:06Z nighthacks quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-01T17:39:07Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T17:40:29Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:41:20Z oleo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T17:41:49Z lifenoodles quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T17:42:45Z kjeldahl joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:45:04Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:45:05Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T17:46:00Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T17:46:32Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-01T17:46:55Z a20141130 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:47:37Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:48:37Z lifenoodles joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:49:53Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T17:50:12Z njsg: why is comp.lang.lisp full of threads where I don't see the first message? are people using google groups there, or is someone doing something weird? 2014-12-01T17:51:44Z blahzik joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:52:01Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:52:59Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-12-01T17:53:20Z moei joined #lisp 2014-12-01T17:54:07Z Xach: njsg: a troll is responding to messages from many years ago. 2014-12-01T17:54:11Z Xach: sometimes over 10 years old. 2014-12-01T17:54:52Z rhollor quit (Quit: rhollor) 2014-12-01T17:55:08Z njsg: Xach: does anyone have a ready-made killfile entry? :-) 2014-12-01T17:55:22Z njsg: or alternatively, who is this interesting individual™ 2014-12-01T17:57:02Z Xach: njsg: a few days of observation will make it fairly clear 2014-12-01T17:58:51Z psy quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-12-01T17:59:33Z psy_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:00:43Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T18:00:47Z pjb: Here's my killfile: http://paste.lisp.org/+33J3 2014-12-01T18:01:12Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-12-01T18:01:40Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T18:01:51Z psy_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:02:01Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:03:06Z beach joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:03:06Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T18:03:15Z beach: Good evening everyone! 2014-12-01T18:04:26Z fe[nl]ix: hej beach 2014-12-01T18:05:19Z beach: I guess I have been away from the MOP for too long, or today is just too late to think clearly, but I can't figure out the problem with these forms: (defclass sc (standard-class) ()) (make-instance 'sc) 2014-12-01T18:05:23Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:05:43Z beach: SBCL reports an incompatible metaclass error. 2014-12-01T18:05:53Z milosn quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T18:06:42Z njsg: pjb: ah, thanks, I am trying now something, but apparently it requires the retrieval of additional headers. took a while, but "Num Killed: 4763" 2014-12-01T18:06:53Z vinleod quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2014-12-01T18:06:58Z Shinmera: beach: you need validate-superclass methods 2014-12-01T18:06:59Z pjb: beach: it works well in ccl. 2014-12-01T18:07:10Z njsg: yup, worked, although there are still a few posts with no parent, so maybe some people are indeed posting from google groups 2014-12-01T18:07:15Z Shinmera: beach: See second code listing http://blog.tymoon.eu/article/286 2014-12-01T18:07:16Z beach: Shinmera: That's what it says, but I don't understand why. 2014-12-01T18:07:43Z njsg: (google groups is, so far, my only other killfile entry 2014-12-01T18:07:52Z JokesOnYou77 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:07:55Z JokesOnYou77: Hi all 2014-12-01T18:08:28Z pjb: perhaps sbcl has a different metaclass for standard-class? 2014-12-01T18:08:52Z beach: I wouldn't think so. 2014-12-01T18:09:06Z JokesOnYou77: What's the difference between case, ccase, and ecase? I'm looking at the hyperspec and it looks like the only difference is the type of error thrown when there's no match? 2014-12-01T18:09:17Z Shinmera: I don't know /why/, I never bothered to check the mop for a reason. 2014-12-01T18:09:32Z pjb: JokesOnYou77: indeed. 2014-12-01T18:09:39Z pjb: Also, case doesn't signal any error. 2014-12-01T18:09:50Z beach: Shinmera: Yes, I see. Thanks. 2014-12-01T18:09:57Z theseb: beach: evening? you must be in europe 2014-12-01T18:10:03Z JokesOnYou77: Do ecase and ccase have an otherwise clause? 2014-12-01T18:10:23Z pjb: JokesOnYou77: No, check the syntax section. 2014-12-01T18:10:27Z beach: theseb: I am, but I could be in Africa. 2014-12-01T18:10:37Z pjb: Or even in Antartica. 2014-12-01T18:10:52Z pjb: (even if currently, the nights are short there). 2014-12-01T18:10:58Z theseb: beach: or you could be using tor from California to hide your identity! 2014-12-01T18:11:20Z pjb: If you detect some strange delay, we could also be on the Moon or Mars. 2014-12-01T18:11:29Z lavokad: :) 2014-12-01T18:11:33Z beach: pjb: Do you think that there should be no error when making an instance of SC? 2014-12-01T18:11:51Z njsg: shall I recall that, as noted in the Linux Kernel, it is not possible to use TCP to Mars? 2014-12-01T18:11:55Z theseb: pjb: um...beach is smart nuff to add some synthetic delay into his Tor client to simulate a moon base 2014-12-01T18:11:58Z Pixel_Outlaw quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-01T18:12:14Z njsg: now seriously, there's actually a paper about using the Internet protocols in space, and the tl;dr is "won't work" 2014-12-01T18:12:18Z JokesOnYou77: pjb, Interesting, thank you. 2014-12-01T18:12:39Z theseb: njsg: i hope that isn't correct 2014-12-01T18:12:53Z theseb: njsg: not having internet porn on the moon would make a lot of people unhappy 2014-12-01T18:12:58Z njsg: ftp would require one hour to initialize the transfer 2014-12-01T18:13:41Z njsg: and IIRC smtp is said to be very appropriate in design, but not suitable in implementation 2014-12-01T18:13:41Z theseb: njsg: oh because what takes 1 ns on Earth takes 1.4 sec on moon...perhaps...that sucks 2014-12-01T18:13:56Z Shinmera: Colleen: google time moon 2014-12-01T18:13:57Z theseb: njsg: that is really disappointing 2014-12-01T18:14:01Z Shinmera: Colleen: do google time moon 2014-12-01T18:14:07Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-12-01T18:14:12Z Shinmera: Ach, this is still broken >:I 2014-12-01T18:14:12Z beach: VALIDATE-SUPERCLASS should return true if the class of the CLASS argument is the same as the class of the SUPERCLASS argument. 2014-12-01T18:14:22Z moei joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:14:34Z theseb: njsg: you could still do 1 way communication in a FEW SECONDS 2014-12-01T18:14:36Z nighthacks joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:14:58Z nighthacks left #lisp 2014-12-01T18:15:08Z theseb: njsg: the proof is the audio of the 1st moon landings 2014-12-01T18:15:15Z pjb: beach: Sonja Keene mentions that class-name is an accessor as well as find-class. I assume during bootstrap you could have different names there for a class. 2014-12-01T18:15:59Z njsg: actually, ore than eight hours, I think 2014-12-01T18:16:06Z beach: pjb: I think I figured out that problem. 2014-12-01T18:16:24Z beach: pjb: But that's not the problem I am having right now. 2014-12-01T18:16:24Z theseb: njsg: have you seen the moon landing video? they were talking back and forth fine 2014-12-01T18:16:31Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:16:32Z TDog quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.1/20141106120505]) 2014-12-01T18:16:50Z njsg: theseb: this is about using the protocols used in the *internet* 2014-12-01T18:16:52Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-01T18:16:59Z njsg: I think the whitepaper was http://www.ipnsig.org/reports/TCP_IP.pdf 2014-12-01T18:17:13Z theseb: njsg: you missed my point about 1 way comms being doable 2014-12-01T18:17:19Z beach: *sigh* 2014-12-01T18:17:25Z njsg: TCP is not one-way 2014-12-01T18:17:30Z theseb: njsg: yes i know 2014-12-01T18:17:35Z theseb: i was just making a side comment 2014-12-01T18:18:22Z theseb: too bad TCP/IP needs so much back and forth 2014-12-01T18:19:01Z theseb: beach: did i put my foot in my mouth again? 2014-12-01T18:19:17Z pjb: beach: well, standard-class is a meta-class, therefore a subclass of standard-class will be a meta-class too. I'd expect default methods on validate-superclass, so I don't think definiting one should be necessary (it is not eg. in ccl). 2014-12-01T18:19:24Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-01T18:19:27Z beach: theseb: Not that I know. What makes you think that? 2014-12-01T18:19:44Z theseb: *sigh* 2014-12-01T18:19:46Z theseb: ? 2014-12-01T18:20:09Z theseb: lol....n/m :) 2014-12-01T18:20:21Z pjb: I don't believe there's anything in CLHS that justifies an error here. 2014-12-01T18:20:50Z beach: pjb: Yeah, I just checked: (class-of (find-class 'sc)) and (class-of (find-class 'standard-class)) are the same. 2014-12-01T18:21:08Z beach: So VALIDATE-SUPERCLASS is broken. 2014-12-01T18:21:52Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-01T18:22:18Z beach: pjb: Thanks. 2014-12-01T18:22:20Z Shinmera: is Colleen muted here or something? 2014-12-01T18:22:45Z milosn joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:23:00Z beach: Krystof: Do you know why SBCL complains about incompatible metaclasses in this case? 2014-12-01T18:24:05Z blahzik quit (Quit: blahzik) 2014-12-01T18:24:05Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T18:25:34Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:26:44Z beach: mop v-s 2014-12-01T18:26:45Z specbot: validate-superclass: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/validate-superclass.html 2014-12-01T18:26:53Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T18:26:59Z beach: Shinmera: Read the "notes and remarks" section of that page. 2014-12-01T18:27:30Z Shinmera: The first thing I notice is a typo :( 2014-12-01T18:28:15Z k-stz joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:28:24Z Bike: of of the internal protocol. well, i think beach maintains that page, so. 2014-12-01T18:28:53Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:30:14Z Pixel_Outlaw joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:30:14Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T18:30:27Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T18:30:32Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-01T18:31:16Z joneshf quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T18:31:20Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:31:46Z beach: Shinmera: Fixed! Thanks! 2014-12-01T18:31:46Z pjb: beach: I guess we can assume that it's not automatic that one may subclass a standard metaclass. 2014-12-01T18:32:27Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:32:45Z beach: pjb: In this case though, since CLASS-OF is the same for the two, then there is no doubt that VALIDATE-SUPERCLASS is broken, as far as I can tell. 2014-12-01T18:32:46Z djuber joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:33:59Z Bike: it looks like the error is called from shared-initialize :after (sb-pcl::std-class t), which, when initializing a class, checks that its direct superclasses are valid. 2014-12-01T18:34:24Z Bike: i don't think i understand the purpose of validate-superclass enough to understand if that makes sense. 2014-12-01T18:35:11Z Bike: maybe it should try (validate-superclass (class-of class) (class-of superclass)) instead of (validate-superclass class superclass) like it does now? 2014-12-01T18:37:29Z beach: Bike: I think your last assessment is correct. 2014-12-01T18:38:15Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-01T18:39:48Z Bike: this is the only place in sbcl i can see that calls v-s, so that's an easy fix if it's a fix 2014-12-01T18:40:19Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T18:40:50Z beach: Bike, you can see the page on VALIDATE-SUPERCLASS that I showed. It should definitely test the CLASS-OF. 2014-12-01T18:41:03Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-01T18:41:03Z beach: No wait. 2014-12-01T18:41:10Z pjb: beach: (ql:quickload :closer-mop) (defclass sc (standard-class) ()) (make-instance 'sc) ; works even in sbcl. 2014-12-01T18:41:28Z beach: pjb: Heh! Great! 2014-12-01T18:41:29Z pjb: closer-mop defines the required validate-superclass method. 2014-12-01T18:41:32Z Bike: no, ok. 2014-12-01T18:41:43Z Bike: you're right, i'm wrong, it's validate-superclass that's wrong, the method code i listed is fine. 2014-12-01T18:41:46Z beach: Bike: VALIDATE-SUPERCLASS should be called that way. 2014-12-01T18:41:55Z beach: Yes. 2014-12-01T18:42:23Z Bike: the first thing sbcl's v-s does is check if they're eq, so i wonder what's going wrong. 2014-12-01T18:43:04Z Bike: um. (validate-superclass (find-class 'sc) (find-class 'standard-class)) => T. now i'm really confused. 2014-12-01T18:43:10Z rtra joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:43:29Z beach: I can see why. 2014-12-01T18:43:34Z samebchase: faheem_: I'm in India as well (Pune). 2014-12-01T18:43:39Z Bike: why i'm confused or why it does that? 2014-12-01T18:43:52Z beach: The former. 2014-12-01T18:43:57Z Bike: oh, huzzah. 2014-12-01T18:44:31Z RedEight joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:44:45Z pjb: - 2014-12-01T18:46:30Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:46:55Z beach: Bike: I think the condition reporter gives a clue. Hold on... 2014-12-01T18:48:09Z beach: The class # was specified as a superclass of the class #, but the metaclasses # and # are incompatible. 2014-12-01T18:48:11Z Bike: well, shared-initialize thinks standard-object is a direct superclass of sc. 2014-12-01T18:48:51Z beach: It is, isn't it? 2014-12-01T18:49:13Z Bike: i have no idea. 2014-12-01T18:49:27Z beach: STANDARD-OBJECT is automatically added by defclass as a superclass as I recall. 2014-12-01T18:50:07Z Bike: it's the /only/ direct superclass, i think. 2014-12-01T18:50:13Z beach: Nah. 2014-12-01T18:50:15Z Bike: as far as shared initialize is concerned. 2014-12-01T18:50:22Z Bike: i mean, i put a (print direct-superclasses) in there. 2014-12-01T18:50:26Z beach: I see. 2014-12-01T18:50:38Z beach: Strange. 2014-12-01T18:51:17Z beach: The error message says that # is a metaclass, which doesn't seem right. 2014-12-01T18:51:55Z admg joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:52:08Z beach: Hmm, # doesn't look right either. 2014-12-01T18:52:31Z Pixel_Outlaw: I recall seeing something about symbols and + symbols. Can anyone point me to an explanation? Might be something to do with the way symbols are stored internally. 2014-12-01T18:52:38Z beach: Is it a prototype instance or something? 2014-12-01T18:53:12Z beach: Pixel_Outlaw: What are "+ symbols"? 2014-12-01T18:53:43Z blahzik joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:54:12Z Pixel_Outlaw: beach, I think it was some resolution for symbols like if you had foo the next local instance would be foo+ in a let statement 2014-12-01T18:54:28Z Pixel_Outlaw: Scope resolution mechanism maybe... 2014-12-01T18:54:29Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-12-01T18:54:52Z beach: Pixel_Outlaw: I have never heard anything like it. 2014-12-01T18:55:03Z beach: Where did you see this? 2014-12-01T18:55:51Z Pixel_Outlaw: Oddly enough I think it was a discussion here. 2014-12-01T18:55:59Z Pixel_Outlaw: Long time ago. 2014-12-01T18:56:12Z beach: Bike: Oh, # is probably the instance I created. 2014-12-01T18:58:39Z beach: Bike: There is clearly a CLASS-OF missing in what SBCL is doing it seems. 2014-12-01T18:58:40Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T18:58:58Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-12-01T18:59:16Z beach: Pixel_Outlaw: Doesn't ring a bell. And it seems wrong. 2014-12-01T18:59:19Z moei joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:00:02Z corni joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:00:02Z corni quit (Changing host) 2014-12-01T19:00:03Z corni joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:00:26Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:01:03Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:03:53Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:06:11Z towodo joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:07:29Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:08:02Z Pixel_Outlaw: No worries then. :) 2014-12-01T19:08:14Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:15:15Z wg1024 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:15:15Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T19:16:53Z tcr joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:16:57Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:17:51Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:19:16Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T19:19:16Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T19:19:22Z sheilong joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:19:34Z genii quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T19:19:57Z Petit_Dejeuner__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:20:39Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:20:53Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:24:16Z thawes quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T19:25:26Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:25:26Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T19:25:28Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:25:43Z Grue` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:26:13Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:26:17Z genii joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:29:19Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:30:57Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:31:04Z beach left #lisp 2014-12-01T19:31:25Z blahzik quit (Quit: blahzik) 2014-12-01T19:31:36Z OTS` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:32:23Z OTS` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T19:33:21Z Grue` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:34:59Z OTS quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:35:01Z normanrichards quit 2014-12-01T19:36:12Z tajjada_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:36:35Z resttime quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T19:36:54Z tajjada_ is now known as tajjada 2014-12-01T19:36:59Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:44:04Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:44:05Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T19:45:21Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:46:37Z chriskohlhepp quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:46:37Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T19:46:42Z resttime_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:47:16Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:47:34Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:49:58Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:50:06Z hiroaki joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:51:00Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:53:28Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-12-01T19:53:47Z moei joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:54:28Z Krystof: I don't think there's a class-of missing 2014-12-01T19:54:36Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:54:52Z resttime_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-01T19:55:06Z jweiss_ is now known as jweiss 2014-12-01T19:55:36Z Krystof: I think that in MOP terms, standard-object isn't by default compatible with subclasses of standard-class 2014-12-01T19:55:49Z Krystof: (defclass xxx (t) () (:metaclass sc)) works 2014-12-01T19:57:00Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-01T19:59:40Z stacksmith: G'day. While cleaning up someone-else's code I came across several places where an ordinary defun'ed function uses the backquote and comma, like this: `(,(exprA...) ,(exprB)... It appears that someone not familiar with CL has reworked a macro into a function. Is this usage equivalent to (list (exprA...) (exprB...))? 2014-12-01T19:59:41Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T20:00:09Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2014-12-01T20:00:52Z jasom: stacksmith: yes it is, and IMO there is nothing wrong with using a backquote in a function. 2014-12-01T20:01:04Z drewc: stacksmith: I am familiar with CL, and use backquote and comma more as a run time list than I do in a macro. 2014-12-01T20:01:11Z jasom: clhs ` 2014-12-01T20:01:11Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 2014-12-01T20:01:36Z ggole: backquote can return constant list structure, so you shouldn't use destructive functions on the resulting list. 2014-12-01T20:01:36Z jasom: stacksmith: that link describes backquote in detail 2014-12-01T20:01:40Z ggole: Other than that, it's just conses. 2014-12-01T20:01:46Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:01:52Z drewc: and of course, ",@" is a big splice of fun! 2014-12-01T20:03:09Z jasom: ggole: good point so it's not 100% equivalent to the (list ...) form which is guaranteed to return a fresh list 2014-12-01T20:03:09Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T20:03:51Z stacksmith: Thanks. So it's safe to use the , to evaluate expression at compile time and splice it into the form? I somehow thought it was strictly for macros, but I guess it makes sense anywhere. 2014-12-01T20:04:19Z jasom: stacksmith: it is *not* evaluated at compile time 2014-12-01T20:04:30Z ggole: backquote doesn't have any particular relation to evaluation time. 2014-12-01T20:04:43Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:04:45Z jasom: stacksmith: it is evaluated when the expression is evaluated; for defmacro that will be at macroexpand time, for a defun it will be at run time 2014-12-01T20:05:22Z Bike: stacksmith: `(,a ,b) is just read as something like (list a b), and that's what's actually evaluated. compile time evaluation in macros is due to macros being run at compile time. 2014-12-01T20:06:28Z stacksmith: OK, that makes more sense. 2014-12-01T20:06:30Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T20:07:11Z stacksmith: So is it fair to say that a ` is a shortcut for (list ...) with splicing capability? 2014-12-01T20:07:19Z Bike: no 2014-12-01T20:07:31Z Bike: i mean, it is a shortcut, but not necessarily for a call to list 2014-12-01T20:07:33Z jasom: stacksmith: read the specbot link 2014-12-01T20:07:42Z Bike: yeah the clhs description should clear it up 2014-12-01T20:07:49Z jasom: stacksmith: it's fairly clear 2014-12-01T20:08:34Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:12:37Z alchemis7 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T20:12:37Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T20:12:42Z doki-worry joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:13:29Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-01T20:14:06Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:14:29Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:19:10Z ggole quit 2014-12-01T20:23:29Z jweiss: one thing that the packages page of PCL doesn't seem to explain: what if i have a function "save" in two different packages I'm importing and I need to access BOTH of them? I'm sure there must be a way to refer to them with a fully qualified name, or alias one of them? 2014-12-01T20:23:30Z Grue`: I haven't heard of using ",." instead of ",@" before; or `# for that matter. there sure are interesting things hidden in CLHS 2014-12-01T20:24:40Z Bike: jweiss: i don't get the fully qualified question. can't you just only import one of them? 2014-12-01T20:24:41Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T20:24:58Z rhollor joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:25:04Z jweiss: Bike: my point was what if i need access to both? how do i refer to them separately 2014-12-01T20:25:05Z Xach: jweiss: if you use both packages, you can use :shadow to shadow the symbol name so that you must qualify access to each. 2014-12-01T20:25:09Z |3b|: Grue`: for extra fun, remember ., is valid in some places too 2014-12-01T20:25:19Z Xach: jweiss: or you can use :shadowing-import-from one or the other to prefer to use one without a package prefix 2014-12-01T20:25:39Z jweiss: Xach: ah ok sounds like i can always use the fully qualified name then? 2014-12-01T20:25:40Z |3b|: (which is obvious if you realize it is . , and not a distinct bit of syntax like ,.) 2014-12-01T20:26:09Z Xach: jweiss: yes. 2014-12-01T20:26:16Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:26:30Z Grue`: fully qualified name can be used anywhere if you're in the same image 2014-12-01T20:26:42Z bb010g joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:27:23Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-01T20:28:12Z Xach: The way to avoid inheritance conflict is via shadowing. Then you can choose what kind of shadowing in order to express your preference for what can be accessed without a prefix. 2014-12-01T20:28:16Z jweiss: if i just want to use the fq names, then i don't need to refer to those packages at all in the defpackage? since they just need to be loaded and defpackage doesn't do any of that? 2014-12-01T20:28:24Z Xach: jweiss: yes. 2014-12-01T20:28:47Z jweiss: ok thanks 2014-12-01T20:29:03Z rhollor quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-12-01T20:29:05Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T20:29:26Z Xach: joe marshall wrote a bit about a large software project structured so that nothing ever used package prefixes. because that gave more freedom to put together different configurations for different targets. but it seemed like it required quite an investment in structure. 2014-12-01T20:29:38Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:30:03Z faheem_: samebchase: oh. Are you Indian? Your name doesn't sound Indian. 2014-12-01T20:30:05Z Xach: my impression was that it took a certain size and complexity to realize the benefits of his scheme 2014-12-01T20:30:35Z jweiss: i don't see the problem with prefixes. 2014-12-01T20:30:38Z Petit_Dejeuner__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:31:03Z jweiss: it's nice to not have to refer to the top of the file for every function name you haven't seen yet. 2014-12-01T20:31:17Z jasom: Is there a slime client in common-lisp that isn't tightly coupled with an editor? 2014-12-01T20:31:45Z jweiss: i think slime IS the client, isn't it? 2014-12-01T20:31:58Z |3b| thought there was at some point 2014-12-01T20:32:00Z Grue`: jweiss: technically if your IDE is properly integrated you shouldn't need to look up symbols by searching your file 2014-12-01T20:32:21Z jasom: jweiss: well whatever you want to call the thing that connects to swank 2014-12-01T20:32:32Z Grue`: e.g. in SLIME you press M-. and go to that symbol's definition 2014-12-01T20:32:34Z jweiss: Grue`: sure, if you're reading source in an active environment instead of say, on github ;) 2014-12-01T20:33:10Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T20:33:33Z Grue`: it's pretty hard to understand most code just by reading it on github 2014-12-01T20:33:42Z drewc: jweiss: I always tend to (:import-from :package) without any symbols in it, and use prefixed symbols where needed. But I also defpackage at the top of every file, so that makes a difference as well. 2014-12-01T20:33:50Z Xach: I like to print out and read code. 2014-12-01T20:34:37Z alexey1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:36:12Z drewc: jasom: I have written one, and ISTR there being one on github ... https://github.com/brown/swank-client <--- there it is 2014-12-01T20:36:23Z ivan4th: |3b|: I plan to make cl-async port of https://github.com/3b/clws soon (by adding extra .asd & preserving iolib compatibility). What do you think about this fork? https://github.com/deadtrickster/clws What repo should I base my changes on? 2014-12-01T20:37:03Z goldenlight joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:37:48Z |3b|: ivan4th: haven't looked at it, so not sure 2014-12-01T20:37:52Z jasom: drewc: that looks like it's mainly using swank for a remote REPL; no sldb stuff there 2014-12-01T20:39:41Z Petit_Dejeuner__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T20:39:42Z |3b|: ivan4th: might also look at https://github.com/fukamachi/websocket-driver which is an independent implementation which looks like it already uses cl-async (though may depend on too many other things as well) 2014-12-01T20:40:19Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:40:25Z ivan4th: |3b|: thanks for the pointer, will try to use it 2014-12-01T20:40:41Z |3b| hasn't looked at that beyond knowing it exists though 2014-12-01T20:41:25Z drewc: jasom: that is actually why I wrote my own... that and the license. But, the protocol is quite simple and it was easy to do all said and done... and I do plan to continue it when I finish what I am doing now FWIW 2014-12-01T20:43:52Z Petit_Dejeuner__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:44:22Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-01T20:44:33Z ivan4th: |3b|: don't see much problems with the source from the brief look besides defun etc. @decorators which look alien for me in CL code 2014-12-01T20:45:00Z jewel__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:45:45Z jewel_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-01T20:46:06Z |3b|: ivan4th: yeah, one of those people with a relatively unusual style, but lots of interesting sounding projects :) 2014-12-01T20:46:12Z ivan4th: Are there any 'old-school' lispers who think that cl-annot is a good idea? 2014-12-01T20:47:02Z H4ns: ivan4th: it looks like a terrible idea to me. 2014-12-01T20:47:04Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-12-01T20:47:11Z ivan4th: for me, too 2014-12-01T20:47:59Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:49:39Z Grue`: i think Python has annotations precisely because it doesn't have macros 2014-12-01T20:50:27Z ivan4th: although I always thought that it would be nice to have an ability to add custom attributes to defclass without restorting to custom metaclass (which may kill compiler optimizations) or macrology. But never thought it should be @decorator way 2014-12-01T20:50:30Z DeadTrickster: @ivan4th, that fork is mine 2014-12-01T20:50:46Z DeadTrickster: if you have any questions feel free to ask 2014-12-01T20:50:48Z Petit_Dejeuner__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T20:51:27Z ivan4th: s/restorting/resorting/ 2014-12-01T20:51:38Z ivan4th: DeadTrickster: thanks. I see the primary difference is that it has different package + it uses log4cl ? 2014-12-01T20:52:11Z H4ns: ivan4th: looks to me as if the person wanted to try reader macros and thought "cool, i can have annotations like in java" 2014-12-01T20:52:22Z DeadTrickster: it also uses event fd 2014-12-01T20:52:23Z H4ns: ivan4th: nice exercise. 2014-12-01T20:52:26Z Xach: Hmm, does clx support unix socket communication? 2014-12-01T20:52:40Z Xach googles 2014-12-01T20:52:59Z DeadTrickster: recently I push some code trying to implement graceful shutdowns 2014-12-01T20:53:52Z dim: mmm, clx? 2014-12-01T20:55:06Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:55:06Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T20:55:08Z Xach: dim: x protocol implementation. 2014-12-01T20:55:26Z dim: oooh. ok 2014-12-01T20:55:44Z ivan4th: DeadTrickster: well, I think because I'm using cl-async I'll try fukamachi's version first despite that @ugliness. But perhaps will try to extend your fork if I have problems with websocket-driver 2014-12-01T20:55:46Z dim: do they provide it as a grey stream? ;-) 2014-12-01T20:55:48Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T20:55:53Z ivan4th: DeadTrickster: anyway, thanks 2014-12-01T20:56:07Z Xach: This server is running off a socket in /tmp/ and I'm not sure how to connect. 2014-12-01T20:57:24Z rvchangue quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T20:57:26Z ivan4th: Xach: try socat if nothing else works... 2014-12-01T20:58:05Z doki-worry quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T20:59:11Z dim: worst case use socat or netcat? 2014-12-01T20:59:11Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T20:59:15Z DeadTrickster: |3b|, was it just exercise or you used it somehow? 2014-12-01T20:59:16Z dim: oh, I'm late, sorry 2014-12-01T20:59:54Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:00:56Z ivan4th: DeadTrickster: if you're speaking about clws, there was something like SLIME support for parenscript that utilized web sockets IIRC 2014-12-01T21:01:12Z selat quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-12-01T21:01:22Z ivan4th: https://github.com/3b/slime-proxy 2014-12-01T21:01:25Z DeadTrickster: wow 2014-12-01T21:02:13Z DeadTrickster: so many cool things abandoned here 2014-12-01T21:03:57Z adlai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T21:04:23Z adlai joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:04:24Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:04:38Z ivan4th: I for one am planning to write simple frontend-assembling thingy for a new web project (which has CL-based backend) with livereload support etc. Was using grunt for my previous project, now it's replaced by gulp, I'm afraid js hipsters will replace gulp before my new project is finished 2014-12-01T21:06:11Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:06:43Z ivan4th: would be glad to be able to use my swank-js too for the project too, but unfortunately it's of little use with modern js (AngularJS etc.) 2014-12-01T21:08:15Z ndrei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T21:08:25Z ivan4th: unfortunately can't use parenscript etc. because I plan to eventually transfer all of frontend work to frontend devs (so I can concentrate on CL-based part) 2014-12-01T21:08:35Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:09:31Z Petit_Dejeuner__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:09:43Z DeadTrickster: ivan4th, is it personal project or your job? I wonder home many people paid for lisp-based web development 2014-12-01T21:10:00Z ivan4th: I hope it'll be my full-time job very soon 2014-12-01T21:10:21Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-12-01T21:11:19Z |3b|: DeadTrickster: clws and slime-proxy aren't quite abandoned, i'm just not using them actively at the moment :/ 2014-12-01T21:12:05Z towodo joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:14:21Z DeadTrickster: |3b|, is it production ready? what you feel about that? 2014-12-01T21:14:21Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T21:14:45Z milesrout: I'm kind of new to Lisp, is there a better way of doing this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/144546 2014-12-01T21:15:18Z |3b|: clws? not sure, but i'm pretty conservative about saying that sort of thing, so might underestimate others' idea of "production ready" 2014-12-01T21:15:27Z normanrichards quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-01T21:15:36Z jasom: milesrout: I'm not quite sure what you're trying to do with that macro 2014-12-01T21:15:42Z ivan4th: DeadTrickster: you're from Belarus, or am I wrong? are you (theoretically) interested in doing some paid CL work? (see, my position will be a tech lead in CL-based project) 2014-12-01T21:15:43Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-01T21:15:50Z milesrout: it's kind of obvious isn't it? 2014-12-01T21:15:50Z |3b|: i'd probably want to do at least 1 more round of refactoring of the API if i were actively working on it 2014-12-01T21:16:00Z milesrout: it's let in terms of lambda. 2014-12-01T21:16:08Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:16:14Z milesrout: for educational purposes. 2014-12-01T21:16:32Z Xach: milesrout: that looks ok. I'd probably use FIRST and SECOND instead of CAR and CADR there. 2014-12-01T21:16:55Z milesrout: I do not like the names FIRST and SECOND personally. 2014-12-01T21:16:57Z chu joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:17:07Z Xach: That seems like a good thing to get over. 2014-12-01T21:17:09Z |3b|: milesrout: if you want CL's LET semantics, you need to handle atoms in BINDINGS 2014-12-01T21:17:16Z Xach: CAR and CADR are good for tree traversal. You're working with lists. 2014-12-01T21:17:28Z DeadTrickster: |3b|, I want to invest some time, mainly to rewrite http parsing utilizing fast-http is it worth it? 2014-12-01T21:17:43Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T21:17:51Z |3b|: or actually i guess that is more syntax of LET 2014-12-01T21:18:00Z goldenlight quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-12-01T21:18:06Z milesrout: Xach, you know they do the same thing, right? They're just aliases. 2014-12-01T21:18:14Z milesrout: |3b|, right of course. 2014-12-01T21:18:38Z |3b|: milesrout: CL and C do the same thing too, but the differences matter to the users 2014-12-01T21:18:43Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-01T21:18:53Z milesrout: Well no they don't do the same thing. 2014-12-01T21:18:59Z milesrout: inb4 'turing complete' argument. 2014-12-01T21:19:02Z Xach: milesrout: They don't do the same thing. 2014-12-01T21:19:03Z DeadTrickster: ivan4th, no unfortunately I'm not from Belarus(why?) If you have something write that to me privately please 2014-12-01T21:19:24Z Xach: milesrout: One indicates to the human reader that the data is tree-shaped, the other that it is list-shaped. 2014-12-01T21:19:24Z |3b| thinks i already made that argument :p 2014-12-01T21:19:40Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:19:40Z kennedyj` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:19:47Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-01T21:19:50Z milesrout: Xach, you keep on thinking that, buddy. 2014-12-01T21:19:54Z Xach: Ok. 2014-12-01T21:21:14Z reb``` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:21:17Z hugoduncan joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:21:28Z jasom: milesrout: hint: neither Xach nor |3b| are "kind of new to Lisp" you may consider listening to them. 2014-12-01T21:21:43Z |3b|: so surface appearance matters when comparing between 2 different Turing complete languages, but not within one? 2014-12-01T21:22:00Z guaqua` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:22:55Z milesrout: |3b|, C and CL aren't purely different on the surface. CL is clearly more flexible and is just a nicer environment to work in. The difference between FIRST and CAR is purely syntactic. 2014-12-01T21:23:14Z manfoo7`` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:23:23Z milosn quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T21:23:53Z jasom: milesrout: there's actually no syntactic difference between the two. 2014-12-01T21:24:03Z FrostyX_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:24:04Z H4ns: milesrout: it still makes sense to use first for lists and car for trees to make it easier for the human reader to see what is going on. 2014-12-01T21:24:05Z milesrout: you know what I mean 2014-12-01T21:24:27Z quazimod1 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:24:42Z jasom: the question is whether or not there is a semantic difference between the two; clearly to the compiler there is not. To a human there may or may not be. 2014-12-01T21:24:50Z H4ns: milesrout: it is like you give your variables good, comprehensible names, not to please the compiler, but to please the human reader. 2014-12-01T21:24:58Z ans_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:25:03Z byte48_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:25:24Z scymtym_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:25:26Z yorick_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:26:12Z alexey1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T21:27:17Z |3b|: DeadTrickster: haven't looked at fast-http, but might be a reasonable thing to do if it is faster 2014-12-01T21:27:17Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T21:27:26Z milesrout: I suppose you make a good point. 2014-12-01T21:27:46Z K1rk_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:27:48Z jdz_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:27:54Z milesrout: just like NOT and NULL are identical except in name, but using NULL in boolean logic processing and NOT in a list context would be confusing. 2014-12-01T21:27:59Z drdo` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:28:05Z hitecnologys_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:28:08Z Subfusc_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:28:28Z jweiss quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-01T21:29:15Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:29:18Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:29:26Z rtra` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:30:36Z ndrei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T21:30:36Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T21:30:46Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T21:31:08Z lpaste_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:31:26Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:31:53Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:32:14Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:32:34Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:32:40Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-12-01T21:33:44Z DeadTrickster: |3b|, It's rewrite of nodejs http-parser which is based on nginx sources, frankly speeking I'm not sure I understand how your parser works in clws, it just a mess to me :-(. I want to have good old state machine with a lot of gotos 2014-12-01T21:33:47Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T21:33:48Z rme joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:34:41Z |3b| probably overengineered it a bit :/ 2014-12-01T21:35:05Z hiroaki quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:05Z rtra quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:05Z oleo quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:05Z hitecnologys quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:05Z kennedyj quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:05Z quazimodo quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:06Z Subfusc quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:06Z hugod quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:06Z FrostyX quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z manfoo7` quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z jdz quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z reb`` quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z cosmicexplorer quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z byte48 quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z sytse quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z lpaste quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z ans quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z yorick quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z scymtym quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:07Z guaqua quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:08Z K1rk quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:08Z drdo quit (*.net *.split) 2014-12-01T21:35:08Z Subfusc_ is now known as Subfusc 2014-12-01T21:35:10Z rtra` is now known as rtra 2014-12-01T21:35:10Z hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys 2014-12-01T21:35:10Z drdo` is now known as drdo 2014-12-01T21:35:54Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:36:48Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T21:37:08Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:37:51Z oleo__ is now known as oleo 2014-12-01T21:39:28Z tcr quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-01T21:40:02Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T21:42:56Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T21:43:46Z DeadTrickster: anyway I love iolib and honestly I don't understand why so many new projects choose cl-async, maybe I miss something? 2014-12-01T21:44:35Z jasom: DeadTrickster: maybe portability? 2014-12-01T21:44:36Z vinleod joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:44:57Z jasom: or perhaps an aversion to installing a .so that isn't being used by anything else 2014-12-01T21:45:37Z DeadTrickster: installing? 2014-12-01T21:45:57Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:46:03Z jasom: DeadTrickster: don't you need to build and install libfixposix for iolib? 2014-12-01T21:46:46Z DeadTrickster: I forgot about it because apt knows about it not a big deal to me 2014-12-01T21:47:00Z DeadTrickster: you need libevent too for cl-async 2014-12-01T21:47:10Z DeadTrickster: if I'm correct of course 2014-12-01T21:47:40Z jasom: DeadTrickster: I would hazard a guess that more package managers have libevent 2014-12-01T21:48:07Z ivan4th: cl-async is in the process of switching to libuv currently 2014-12-01T21:48:30Z jasom: It's been a while since I used iolib, but it was not in most package managers last time I used it. 2014-12-01T21:48:40Z jasom: and by "it" I mean libfixposix 2014-12-01T21:49:54Z ivan4th: I has been using iolib for a long time and libfixposix does indeed cause some inconveniences 2014-12-01T21:50:47Z DeadTrickster: what inconveniences? 2014-12-01T21:51:06Z ivan4th: having to compile it for debian armel/armhf 2014-12-01T21:51:31Z ivan4th: (or even angstrom linux, which is worse) 2014-12-01T21:53:10Z ivan4th: also, it doesn't support Windows, right? (at least, without cygwin) 2014-12-01T21:53:10Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T21:53:32Z DeadTrickster: tell me about posix and windows 2014-12-01T21:54:04Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:54:31Z ivan4th: I sometimes need to make some of my apps work on Windows 2014-12-01T21:54:42Z DeadTrickster: poor boy -) 2014-12-01T21:55:56Z jasom: ivan4th: check out basic-binary-ipc 2014-12-01T21:55:56Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T21:56:20Z jasom: ivan4th: there is an outstanding bug on windows, but I think it's just about dead 2014-12-01T21:57:15Z vmw joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:57:34Z ivan4th: my control system program uses an abstraction layer that is capable to work on top of either iolib or CommonQt socket stuff 2014-12-01T21:57:38Z ivan4th: jasom: thanks for the pointer 2014-12-01T21:57:40Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T21:57:41Z vmw left #lisp 2014-12-01T21:58:15Z DeadTrickster: and it windows based? why? 2014-12-01T21:58:35Z jasom: Mark Cox gets my respect for implementing an interface to overlapped IO with just cffi. 2014-12-01T21:58:54Z ivan4th: control system core is linux-based and runs on embedded linux. there are clients for both Linux and Windows 2014-12-01T22:02:33Z DeadTrickster: gosh, lisp is everywhere! 2014-12-01T22:02:33Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T22:04:27Z hiroaki joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:04:33Z milesrout` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:05:33Z milesrout quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T22:05:53Z vhost- is now known as {g|v}host- 2014-12-01T22:07:51Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T22:09:22Z rhollor joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:09:34Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:12:12Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-12-01T22:12:56Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:13:07Z lavokad quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T22:13:31Z rhollor quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-12-01T22:13:37Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-01T22:15:10Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-01T22:16:13Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:17:28Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T22:18:15Z milosn joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:18:47Z djuber quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T22:25:35Z DeadTrickster: clsql-mysql anyone? 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2014-12-01T22:51:25Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:52:06Z _death: oh, that's asdf2.. nm 2014-12-01T22:52:22Z karswell` is now known as karswell 2014-12-01T22:52:27Z Xach: _death: I don't think so, but I've heard reports of problems sometimes. 2014-12-01T22:52:30Z cpc26_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T22:52:30Z drewc: _death: I have #+quicklisp (ql:quickload "asdf-package-system") at the top of such things. 2014-12-01T22:52:31Z drewc: 2014-12-01T22:53:02Z drewc: for any defsystems that I use the depend on a ... yeah 2014-12-01T22:53:05Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:53:11Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T22:53:27Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:53:32Z oudeis quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T22:53:34Z Xach: That's possibly fine for anything that you don't want to be distributed with Quicklisp. 2014-12-01T22:54:05Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-01T22:54:24Z drewc: Oh yeah, for certain ... that is only for local, and for that matter /older/ things 2014-12-01T22:54:28Z {g|v}host- is now known as vhost- 2014-12-01T22:55:19Z drewc: ASDF3 and whatever they call the package inferred thing should just work... I just happen to have used such a thing before it was a part of ASDF. 2014-12-01T22:56:19Z drewc makes a note to remove such #+'s from any .asd that still uses it and may be 'public' 2014-12-01T22:58:37Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: Client Quit) 2014-12-01T22:59:13Z bool_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T22:59:45Z bool_ joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:00:42Z hugoduncan is now known as hugod 2014-12-01T23:01:47Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-01T23:01:47Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:02:02Z ivan4th: btw: concerning the above discussion about cl-async vs iolib vs other async libs: iolib has problems with Windows & requires extra C code; basic-binary-ipc is nice but doesn't seem to offer SSL and there are seemingly no protocol implementations for it. 2014-12-01T23:02:22Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:03:23Z ivan4th: thus, cl-async seems to be a good choice at the moment. also, blackbird promise library got some nice improvements recently https://github.com/orthecreedence/blackbird (formely cl-async-future, used by cl-async protocol drivers) 2014-12-01T23:04:42Z ivan4th: iolib is 2nd candidate but you do something nice with iolib and then windows happen 2014-12-01T23:04:42Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:05:26Z ivan4th: and SERVE-EVENT is sbcl/cmucl-only 2014-12-01T23:05:37Z admg quit (Quit: Bye) 2014-12-01T23:06:37Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:07:02Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-01T23:07:56Z ivan4th: also, uv branch of cl-async (soon to be landed I think) now supports proper SLIME REPL integration 2014-12-01T23:08:18Z ivan4th: where stuff is eval'd in the context of event loop which is running in its own thread 2014-12-01T23:08:37Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:08:48Z ivan4th: like something I did for CommonQt years ago 2014-12-01T23:08:49Z mrSpec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T23:09:57Z jdz_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T23:09:57Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:09:57Z ivan4th: (just running your event loop in separate thread and hoping nothing breaks when you fiddle around with your code in REPL thread is somewhat scary) 2014-12-01T23:10:43Z nightshade427 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T23:10:56Z jdz joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:11:33Z ConstantineXVI joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:11:45Z ConstantineXVI quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-01T23:11:50Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:12:44Z Bicyclid1ne joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:14:10Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T23:14:39Z |3b|: ivan4th: does cl-async handle ssl? 2014-12-01T23:15:22Z ivan4th: |3b|: yes, it does. there were some problems with ssl in uv branch impl but orthecreedence fixed them a few days ago 2014-12-01T23:16:05Z |3b|: cool, that was something that looked like it would be annoying to do in clws using just iolib 2014-12-01T23:17:31Z ivan4th: overall it seems to be good lib. If anyone doesn't like libuv I think the right thing to do would be adding alternative event loop implementations to cl-async (not supported yet, but possible) rather than making more async APIs 2014-12-01T23:18:41Z alchemis7 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:18:41Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:20:58Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:21:35Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2014-12-01T23:26:44Z nightshade427 joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:27:16Z lavokad joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:27:16Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-01T23:28:22Z ivan4th: also, I abstracted away iolib in my app a long time ago and maybe it imporved since that time, but one problem that cl-async (uv) makes simpler is wakeup of the event thread 2014-12-01T23:28:22Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:28:39Z ivan4th: had to do wakeup pipe thing myself to implement it in iolib code 2014-12-01T23:29:13Z ivan4th: s/imporved/improved/ 2014-12-01T23:30:05Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:31:18Z phf` joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:31:18Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:31:57Z tcr quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-01T23:32:05Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:33:37Z Bicyclid1ne is now known as Bicyclidine 2014-12-01T23:34:03Z harish joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:34:55Z blahzik joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:36:39Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:36:42Z Lowl3v3l quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:37:08Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-01T23:37:48Z Lowl3v3l joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:38:47Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:39:04Z Lowl3v3l quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:39:40Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-01T23:39:40Z phf`: i remember someone (i feel like it was tunes around 2004) had sbcl almost booting on bare metal, there were some patches produced. i'd like to study the patches, but i can't find them, so i would appreciate if somebody can point me in the right direction 2014-12-01T23:40:33Z Bicyclidine: might want to join #sbcl and ask nyef 2014-12-01T23:41:34Z Lowl3v3l joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:41:34Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:42:22Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:42:43Z phf`: oh that's who it was, thanks Bicyclidine 2014-12-01T23:45:26Z pillton joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:46:10Z chaotic_good: sbcl on bare? woa 2014-12-01T23:46:13Z chaotic_good: sikk 2014-12-01T23:46:23Z chaotic_good: web browser? shell? 2014-12-01T23:46:42Z Bicyclidine: if you want to use a repl as shell, maybe. 2014-12-01T23:46:55Z phf`: and naggum's cl-emacs 2014-12-01T23:49:35Z Lowl3v3l quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:49:36Z chaotic_good quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:49:49Z swflint quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-01T23:50:38Z Lowl3v3l joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:51:30Z Lowl3v3l quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-01T23:51:57Z chaotic_good joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:53:43Z ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 2014-12-01T23:54:32Z Xach has set mode -bbb *!*canaima@201.243.139.* *!*tusisy@213.143.50.0/23 *!*quikole@213.143.61.* 2014-12-01T23:54:35Z Xach has set mode +b *!*g@*.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com 2014-12-01T23:54:40Z chaotic_good [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (gavino) 2014-12-01T23:54:42Z Xach has set mode -o Xach 2014-12-01T23:55:17Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-01T23:56:53Z swflint_away joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:56:58Z swflint_away is now known as swflint 2014-12-01T23:57:40Z rvchangue joined #lisp 2014-12-01T23:58:17Z corni quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)