2014-11-23T00:01:42Z mishoo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T00:02:03Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T00:08:06Z nha_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T00:08:15Z drewc quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T00:09:40Z drmeister: pjb: Shinmera - thanks
2014-11-23T00:10:22Z froggey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T00:10:38Z froggey joined #lisp
2014-11-23T00:10:55Z __prefect quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T00:12:21Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。)
2014-11-23T00:17:31Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T00:19:28Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T00:24:12Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T00:30:52Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-23T00:35:10Z militaristically joined #lisp
2014-11-23T00:39:50Z towodo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T00:39:55Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T00:42:15Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: Client Quit)
2014-11-23T00:44:02Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T00:46:54Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2014-11-23T00:47:09Z BitPuffin quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T00:52:37Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-11-23T00:53:52Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T00:53:59Z marcux quit (Quit: marcux)
2014-11-23T00:54:15Z drewc joined #lisp
2014-11-23T01:04:41Z kirin` joined #lisp
2014-11-23T01:06:44Z kuimacro joined #lisp
2014-11-23T01:11:29Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2014-11-23T01:13:22Z marcux joined #lisp
2014-11-23T01:20:50Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2014-11-23T01:27:06Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2014-11-23T01:35:23Z zRecursive joined #lisp
2014-11-23T01:39:47Z zyaku quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-11-23T01:40:22Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-11-23T01:42:20Z phax joined #lisp
2014-11-23T01:43:11Z marcux quit (Quit: marcux)
2014-11-23T01:45:03Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T01:49:34Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T01:56:20Z marcux joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:00:05Z mockturtle joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:01:47Z Ethan- joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:03:29Z kuimacro quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
2014-11-23T02:06:58Z linux_dream joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:07:22Z linux_dream quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-23T02:08:50Z guicho joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:09:18Z meiji11 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:16:20Z jusss joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:18:03Z guicho: is there already a pretty formatter for asdf defsystem definition?
2014-11-23T02:18:49Z guicho: that takes a system instance and output a valid defsystem definition
2014-11-23T02:19:13Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:21:30Z Jubb quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T02:24:52Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:25:58Z marcux quit (Quit: marcux)
2014-11-23T02:28:09Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-23T02:28:12Z jusss quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-23T02:30:31Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T02:32:49Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:38:35Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:38:39Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:39:55Z theos quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-11-23T02:40:16Z theos joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:43:25Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-23T02:49:32Z stepnem joined #lisp
2014-11-23T02:57:15Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-11-23T02:58:36Z Pixel_Outlaw joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:00:49Z Jubb joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:12:37Z zRecursive quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T03:16:40Z zRecursi` joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:16:48Z jlarocco joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:21:16Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:29:32Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-23T03:30:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-11-23T03:31:04Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:33:32Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-11-23T03:35:42Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo)
2014-11-23T03:38:01Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T03:40:03Z ilhami quit (Quit: Bye!!!)
2014-11-23T03:44:19Z mockturtle quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T03:46:22Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:48:01Z mockturtle joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:53:19Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-11-23T03:53:47Z felipe joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:54:04Z sheilong quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-11-23T03:54:11Z felipe is now known as Guest33378
2014-11-23T03:54:18Z Guest33378 is now known as sheilong
2014-11-23T03:57:54Z madrik joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:59:17Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2014-11-23T03:59:36Z madrik` joined #lisp
2014-11-23T03:59:43Z Pixel_Outlaw quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-11-23T03:59:55Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-23T04:00:42Z jusss joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:01:01Z madrik quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-23T04:01:11Z madrik` left #lisp
2014-11-23T04:05:29Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2014-11-23T04:05:49Z jlarocco quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-11-23T04:06:35Z _chupish_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:06:40Z protist joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:08:56Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:09:16Z bb010g joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:11:52Z ska-fan: I'm following Peter Norvig's how to write a lisp interpreter in python and I'm doing things a little differently. I'm wondering whether my lisp is somehow strange or unusual. Here's two examples:
2014-11-23T04:11:59Z ska-fan: (begin (define (quote markus) +) (markus 1 2))
2014-11-23T04:12:08Z ska-fan: (begin (define (quote circle-area) (lambda (r) (* pi (* r r)))) (circle-area 10))
2014-11-23T04:12:19Z ska-fan: and (+ (quote hallo) (quote welt))
2014-11-23T04:12:55Z maxpeck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T04:13:39Z _chupish_: is define not a syntactic form there? more like a function/procedure?
2014-11-23T04:13:40Z Bicyclidine: ska-fan: forcing quotation for definition is unusual but weird. that third one is worrying, though. what's it doing exactly?
2014-11-23T04:13:52Z Bicyclidine: er, unusual but not a huge deal, i meant.
2014-11-23T04:13:57Z _chupish_: yeah, that was my next question
2014-11-23T04:14:21Z zRecursi` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T04:15:02Z maxpeck joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:15:22Z ska-fan: the third is "hallowelt"
2014-11-23T04:15:37Z Bicyclidine: that kind of overloading is really gross, but okay.
2014-11-23T04:15:45Z Bicyclidine: i'd have a separate "concatenate" function.
2014-11-23T04:15:49Z Bicyclidine: also i'd use strings instead of symbols.
2014-11-23T04:16:20Z chu joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:17:24Z ska-fan: Hmm. I can't say I understand everything you say and not lie at the same time.
2014-11-23T04:17:59Z ska-fan: (The + overloading is a consequence of the underlying python.)
2014-11-23T04:18:07Z Bicyclidine: I mean, I think having (+ 4 9) and (+ "foo" "bar") both work is gross. Lots of languages do it so I guess I can't get too mad, but still.
2014-11-23T04:18:23Z Bicyclidine: Do you understand the differences between strings and symbols?
2014-11-23T04:19:31Z ska-fan: A string is the characters its composed of, and a symbol refers to the value by that name in the environment.
2014-11-23T04:20:03Z ska-fan: So iiuc (quote markus) is the string "markus", and just markus is the symbol markus, right?
2014-11-23T04:20:12Z Bicyclidine: no. symbols are things in themselves.
2014-11-23T04:20:25Z Bicyclidine: you can do, like, (eq 'markus 'markus)
2014-11-23T04:20:44Z Bicyclidine: and in most modern lisps strings and symbols are separate data types; "markus" and 'markus are not the same thing
2014-11-23T04:20:53Z Bicyclidine: (but (symbol-name 'markus) => "markus", possibly)
2014-11-23T04:21:12Z Bicyclidine: "=>" meaning "evaluates to". i forget what notation norvig uses if any
2014-11-23T04:21:16Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-23T04:21:33Z _chupish_: technically too the symbol is not "made up" of anything, it's a literal like a number, whereas the string is "made up" of characters
2014-11-23T04:23:17Z ska-fan: So far there's neither ' nor " in norvigs first installment of lispy
2014-11-23T04:23:58Z Bicyclidine: 'foo is just an abbreviation for (quote foo).
2014-11-23T04:24:12Z ska-fan: Ah, ok.
2014-11-23T04:24:21Z Bicyclidine: norvig might add string types later.
2014-11-23T04:24:32Z Bicyclidine: or not. i don't know how in depth lispy is.
2014-11-23T04:24:43Z ska-fan: Norvig uses just (define foobar 10) for now
2014-11-23T04:25:18Z Bicyclidine: well, the issue of quoting names is a bit more interesting. having names resolve at runtime is kind of interesting but hard to optimize.
2014-11-23T04:25:34Z Bicyclidine: (doing something like (define (quote foo) (quote bar)) (define foo ...) in your semantics, i mean)
2014-11-23T04:26:28Z maxpeck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T04:26:58Z ska-fan: Ok, I just changed define to not eval its first argument
2014-11-23T04:27:08Z maxpeck joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:27:14Z ska-fan: Now I got (begin (define markus +) (markus 1 2))
2014-11-23T04:27:26Z Bicyclidine: yeah that's more usual.
2014-11-23T04:27:38Z Bicyclidine: do you have lexical binding ("let") yet? that'll make the issues more obvious I think.
2014-11-23T04:27:40Z guicho left #lisp
2014-11-23T04:27:42Z keen___________7 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T04:27:50Z guicho joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:27:53Z _chupish_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2014-11-23T04:28:11Z guicho quit (Quit: さようなら)
2014-11-23T04:28:19Z keen___________7 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:29:01Z ska-fan: I just implemented set!, there was no let yet.
2014-11-23T04:31:37Z ska-fan: So, what foobar means depends on where it is in the list, correct? I.e. in (foobar ...) foobar is the name of a function. In (quux foobar) foobar is an argument to the function quux, and it depends on the quux function whether it takes foobar literally or whether it evaluates it.
2014-11-23T04:33:48Z Bicyclidine: yes, except that if quux is a function foobar will be evaluated. it'll be taken literally if quux is a macro or a special operator instead.
2014-11-23T04:34:15Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T04:36:33Z ska-fan: Ah, ok. Do all macros and special operators never evaluate foobar, or just some?
2014-11-23T04:36:47Z Bicyclidine: just some.
2014-11-23T04:37:08Z Bicyclidine: e.g., if you do (define foo (+ 4 5)) the (+ 4 5) is probably evaluated, but not the foo.
2014-11-23T04:37:29Z ska-fan: Yeah, that makes sense.
2014-11-23T04:37:54Z ska-fan: Lisp is really interesting! How long since you first learned it?
2014-11-23T04:38:08Z Bicyclidine: three or four years, probably.
2014-11-23T04:38:41Z Bicyclidine: by the way, i should mention that this channel is for Common Lisp, like in the topic. norvig wrote a book partly about it, PAIP, but this lispy stuff doesn't seem to be it. there's a "general lisp" channel but i dunno where it is.
2014-11-23T04:46:55Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-11-23T04:47:03Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2014-11-23T04:49:01Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T04:50:35Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T05:01:20Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-11-23T05:11:57Z yuikov quit
2014-11-23T05:20:47Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-11-23T05:28:09Z ilhami joined #lisp
2014-11-23T05:31:30Z ggole joined #lisp
2014-11-23T05:37:46Z vlnx quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T05:40:51Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T05:46:23Z hitecnologys_ quit (Quit: hitecnologys_)
2014-11-23T05:49:02Z hitecnologys: It's ##lisp, IIRC.
2014-11-23T05:49:16Z hitecnologys: Or #lispcafe.
2014-11-23T05:49:50Z hitecnologys: The latter is not exactly meant for purely programming discussions.
2014-11-23T05:52:21Z vlnx joined #lisp
2014-11-23T05:53:37Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-23T05:59:03Z Vutral joined #lisp
2014-11-23T05:59:03Z Vutral quit (Changing host)
2014-11-23T05:59:03Z Vutral joined #lisp
2014-11-23T06:04:56Z Ethan- joined #lisp
2014-11-23T06:06:25Z chu joined #lisp
2014-11-23T06:11:41Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: computation terminated because something exploded)
2014-11-23T06:14:40Z DonationFN joined #lisp
2014-11-23T06:14:53Z DonationFN:#lisp- Due to popular demand, Freenode is in the process of upgrading its servers to handle more bandwidth. This has put added costs on our organization and it has been a struggle.  For those interested in helping, a small donation to Freenode's Dogecoin wallet would go a long way. account: DE2DQ82YBFqRLiDt2rBZSmW4rKEYnvCVV3
2014-11-23T06:19:37Z pnpuff joined #lisp
2014-11-23T06:25:37Z BlueRavenGT quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T06:28:26Z beach joined #lisp
2014-11-23T06:28:34Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2014-11-23T06:29:27Z DonationFN:#lisp- Due to popular demand, Freenode is in the process of upgrading its servers to handle more bandwidth. This has put added costs on our organization and it has been a struggle.  For those interested in helping, a small donation to Freenode's Dogecoin wallet would go a long way. account: DE2DQ82YBFqRLiDt2rBZSmW4rKEYnvCVV3
2014-11-23T06:29:41Z pppp2 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T06:31:28Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-23T06:32:42Z Bicyclidine: good morning, beach.
2014-11-23T06:37:10Z Bicyclidine: DonationFN is fake, for anyone who has dogecoin.
2014-11-23T06:42:34Z beach: Wow.
2014-11-23T06:42:46Z beach: Could have fooled me.
2014-11-23T06:44:32Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100)
2014-11-23T07:02:56Z pnpuff quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T07:12:52Z TDog joined #lisp
2014-11-23T07:18:20Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2014-11-23T07:18:22Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2014-11-23T07:19:10Z a20141119 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T07:21:08Z pinupgeek joined #lisp
2014-11-23T07:25:43Z test1600 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T07:27:17Z maxpeck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T07:27:41Z hiroakip quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2014-11-23T07:31:55Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T07:33:26Z maxpeck joined #lisp
2014-11-23T07:45:02Z DonationFN quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2014-11-23T07:47:34Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T07:48:43Z mockturtle quit (Quit: mockturtle)
2014-11-23T07:49:37Z mockturtle joined #lisp
2014-11-23T07:50:55Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2014-11-23T07:53:41Z zacharias joined #lisp
2014-11-23T07:53:42Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-11-23T07:57:07Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T07:58:52Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T08:03:55Z Shinmera joined #lisp
2014-11-23T08:04:59Z pnpuff joined #lisp
2014-11-23T08:07:06Z ilhami quit (Quit: Bye!!!)
2014-11-23T08:07:13Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T08:14:41Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2014-11-23T08:15:32Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T08:16:43Z nand1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T08:18:33Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T08:19:10Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T08:19:19Z nand1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T08:23:52Z Bicyclidine: beach: How did you deal with macros again? Suggested an extension to cl:macroexpand of some sort?
2014-11-23T08:28:09Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T08:28:52Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T08:29:37Z nand1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T08:31:11Z Bicyclidine: no, right, to macro-function.
2014-11-23T08:32:20Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime)
2014-11-23T08:42:40Z a20141119 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-11-23T08:44:41Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T08:53:12Z pppp2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T08:55:46Z test1600 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T08:56:09Z shka joined #lisp
2014-11-23T08:56:18Z shka: good morning all
2014-11-23T08:59:50Z shka: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144460#1
2014-11-23T09:00:50Z shka: there is some kind of stupid mistake here that prevents me to buffer-maximum-size initarg to the make-instance node
2014-11-23T09:01:01Z shka: as a resoult buffer-maximum-size is unbound
2014-11-23T09:01:28Z H4ns: use a keyword as :initarg
2014-11-23T09:01:29Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T09:01:47Z H4ns: :initarg :buffer-maximum-size
2014-11-23T09:01:47Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-23T09:02:15Z shka: H4ns: thank you very much :-)
2014-11-23T09:03:42Z shka: H4ns: i should always use keyword?
2014-11-23T09:03:49Z H4ns: shka: yes.
2014-11-23T09:03:57Z shka: since i was getting away without it
2014-11-23T09:04:25Z H4ns: shka: there is nothing that you could gain from not using keywords.
2014-11-23T09:07:18Z shka: just wondering how this works
2014-11-23T09:08:45Z H4ns: clos does not restrict you in what symbols you use as :initarg argument, but keywords are the most practical choice and i can't think of a good reason to use different symbols.
2014-11-23T09:09:10Z shka: right
2014-11-23T09:10:54Z Indecipherable joined #lisp
2014-11-23T09:11:47Z _death: shka: it's likely you passed in a different symbol (possibly with the same name).. typical keyword usage is to qualify the name with the package (the ':' is shorthand for 'keyword:')
2014-11-23T09:18:11Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T09:33:21Z meiji11 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T09:35:02Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T09:35:34Z k-stz joined #lisp
2014-11-23T09:35:42Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-23T09:46:35Z test1600 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T09:47:11Z pnpuff quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-11-23T09:48:20Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T09:48:50Z oleo is now known as Guest80354
2014-11-23T09:49:11Z beach: It seems SBCL doesn't allow this lambda list: (&optional (yy 10) (yy (1+ yy)))
2014-11-23T09:49:42Z beach: But it allows: (let* ((yy 10) (yy (1+ yy))) ...)
2014-11-23T09:50:05Z beach: Does the Common Lisp HyperSpec say that variables can not appear twice in a lambda list?
2014-11-23T09:50:33Z Guest80354 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-23T09:55:02Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-23T10:01:01Z adlai joined #lisp
2014-11-23T10:06:28Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T10:11:02Z beach: I guess that's another chapter in my book named "Common Lisp for language implementers".
2014-11-23T10:11:34Z vinleod joined #lisp
2014-11-23T10:14:30Z test1600 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T10:16:06Z pppp2 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T10:18:26Z [1]test1600 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T10:19:00Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T10:19:54Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T10:19:54Z [1]test1600 is now known as test1600
2014-11-23T10:23:22Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T10:23:26Z [1]test1600 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T10:25:39Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T10:25:39Z [1]test1600 is now known as test1600
2014-11-23T10:28:05Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T10:32:35Z pppp2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T10:32:53Z kcj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T10:34:08Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-23T10:34:59Z Patzy joined #lisp
2014-11-23T10:35:38Z k-dawg quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-23T10:40:08Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T10:48:29Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2014-11-23T10:51:13Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T10:53:29Z pt1_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:00:33Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:00:41Z denisrum joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:01:19Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T11:05:54Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-11-23T11:06:38Z Indecipherable quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T11:14:36Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:19:58Z corni joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:23:51Z Sbidicuda joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:23:51Z Sbidicuda quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-23T11:25:13Z Indecipherable joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:28:23Z kub4: hey, if i would like to try and learn some lisp, for example for solving problems at rosalind.info, where would be best to start? I use Dev
2014-11-23T11:28:42Z psy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T11:28:43Z kub4: Debian and have functional knowledge of Python
2014-11-23T11:29:45Z stepnem joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:31:18Z LoicLisp joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:32:13Z ggole: kub4: have a look through practical common lisp
2014-11-23T11:32:36Z dstatyvka joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:32:44Z psy joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:41:57Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-23T11:43:09Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:46:01Z _5kg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T11:46:22Z Indecipherable quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T11:50:04Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-23T11:53:50Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T11:54:38Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-11-23T11:56:57Z rtra joined #lisp
2014-11-23T12:07:12Z chu joined #lisp
2014-11-23T12:08:12Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-23T12:16:04Z mockturtle quit (Quit: mockturtle)
2014-11-23T12:20:30Z pt1_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T12:37:23Z Shinmera: beach: I couldn't find anything in the hyperspec either and the SBCL code for checking the lambda-lists just mentions that it does look for duplicates, without saying why or that there would be any spec entry that says so, unfortunately.
2014-11-23T12:37:36Z Shinmera: *that says to do so
2014-11-23T12:38:32Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T12:39:26Z beach: Shinmera: Thanks.
2014-11-23T12:39:38Z Shinmera: Though I mean, I can see why it is done that way.
2014-11-23T12:39:50Z beach: Shinmera: Furthermore, it makes sense to allow duplicates, at least beyond the required parameters.
2014-11-23T12:39:55Z atgreen joined #lisp
2014-11-23T12:40:03Z Shinmera: I'm not sure sure about that
2014-11-23T12:40:11Z Shinmera: Your example seems overly confusing to me.
2014-11-23T12:40:13Z beach: Shinmera: I think of the required parameters as LET and the remaining ones as LET*.
2014-11-23T12:40:45Z beach: The scoping rules for lambda lists include all previous variables.
2014-11-23T12:40:51Z beach: So it looks like a LET* to me.
2014-11-23T12:41:00Z Shinmera: Well yes, but what kind of function would your example give you?
2014-11-23T12:41:22Z Shinmera: The first optional argument you pass in your example would always be 'ignored' as soon as you pass the second one.
2014-11-23T12:41:32Z beach: I am not saying it is something I would do, but that's no reason to make it forbidden.
2014-11-23T12:41:41Z Shinmera: Right
2014-11-23T12:41:53Z Shinmera: I'm just wondering if it is implicitly stated somewhere in the clhs
2014-11-23T12:42:17Z beach: Yes, I am wondering that too.
2014-11-23T12:44:11Z francogrex joined #lisp
2014-11-23T12:45:34Z beach: Either way, the issue deserves a chapter in that book. :)
2014-11-23T12:46:38Z beach: How is Parasol going by the way?
2014-11-23T12:46:59Z Shinmera: Like this http://shinmera.tymoon.eu/public/screenshot-2014.11.22-18:55:33.png
2014-11-23T12:47:04Z towodo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T12:47:19Z beach: Saw that one already.
2014-11-23T12:47:32Z beach: I thought you had fixed it since then.
2014-11-23T12:47:43Z Shinmera: Well there was a movie and sleep between then and now
2014-11-23T12:48:02Z beach: Ah good plan.  Both of those.
2014-11-23T12:48:16Z Shinmera: So no, I haven't worked any more on it. I did manage to get a minimal example program running using framebuffers, so I know it's at least possible to use them.
2014-11-23T12:48:33Z Shinmera: I'm guessing the memory fault comes from Qt not having the right GL context (or something another) to allocate the buffer
2014-11-23T12:48:49Z Shinmera: So I need to figure out how to get that going. Once I have that it shouldn't take much else though.
2014-11-23T12:49:33Z beach: Sounds good.
2014-11-23T12:53:52Z DrCode joined #lisp
2014-11-23T12:56:09Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T13:03:17Z Shinmera: Hrm, grepping the hyperspec for "duplicate" as well as "same name" yields absolutely nothing on lambda-list duplicates either.
2014-11-23T13:08:02Z oleo__ is now known as oleo
2014-11-23T13:10:20Z beach: So, still inconclusive.
2014-11-23T13:10:24Z EvW joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:11:07Z Shinmera: Yes, unfortunately.
2014-11-23T13:11:16Z pppp2 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:12:36Z haom joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:13:23Z Shinmera: CCL seems to allow it at least, but warns about an unused lexical variable.
2014-11-23T13:13:40Z beach: But it's not unused.
2014-11-23T13:14:14Z Shinmera: Oh, my mistake
2014-11-23T13:14:21Z Shinmera: I forgot to ignore the variable in the body
2014-11-23T13:14:27Z Shinmera: Sorry.
2014-11-23T13:14:58Z beach: Try (lambda (&optional (x 10) (x (1+ x))) x)
2014-11-23T13:15:06Z beach: There is no unused variable there.
2014-11-23T13:15:41Z Shinmera: Yeah that works.
2014-11-23T13:16:16Z beach: Perhaps a style warning would be in order, but do think that ought to work.
2014-11-23T13:17:56Z Shinmera: So: ccl, ecl, clisp, abcl, and cmucl all allow it.
2014-11-23T13:18:10Z beach: Interesting!
2014-11-23T13:18:19Z beach: So some SBCL maintainer must have made that decision.
2014-11-23T13:18:20Z Shinmera: lispworks too
2014-11-23T13:18:26Z Shinmera: sbcl seems to be loner in this one, yes.
2014-11-23T13:18:46Z Shinmera: Probably better to just emit a style warning, yes.
2014-11-23T13:18:55Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-23T13:19:04Z beach: Thanks for all the help and for all the energy you put into this issue.
2014-11-23T13:19:25Z Shinmera: Well, it interests me too, so you're welcome!
2014-11-23T13:19:38Z beach: I am also impressed that you have access to all those implementations. :)
2014-11-23T13:20:01Z Shinmera: I took the time to set them all up at some point. I should actually use them to test my libs more often, but...
2014-11-23T13:20:28Z beach: I agree it's a great idea to do that.  It's also a lot of work!
2014-11-23T13:20:30Z Shinmera: Well, there's no "but" really, I'm just lazy about that.
2014-11-23T13:25:07Z agumonkey quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2014-11-23T13:26:08Z agumonkey joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:28:08Z francogrex quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T13:33:01Z Digby joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:33:46Z pjb: beach:
2014-11-23T13:34:04Z pjb: 3.4.1. clearly says: "An init-form can be any form. Whenever any init-form is evaluated for any parameter specifier, that form may refer to any parameter variable to the left of the specifier in which the init-form appears, including any  supplied-p-parameter variables, and may rely on the fact that no other parameter variable has yet been bound(including its own parameter variable)."
2014-11-23T13:34:19Z pjb: therefore if sbcl doesn't allow (&optional (yy 10) (yy (1+ yy)))
2014-11-23T13:34:21Z pjb: then it is not conforming.
2014-11-23T13:34:24Z guicho joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:34:57Z Shinmera: That makes two things in which SBCL is not conforming that I know of.
2014-11-23T13:35:02Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:35:22Z beach: pjb: Yes, I knew about that paragraph.  But it doesn't seem to imply that duplication of parameter variables is allowed.
2014-11-23T13:36:26Z Digby quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-23T13:36:52Z pjb: AFAICS, it is not forbidden.
2014-11-23T13:37:05Z beach: Yeah, I agree.  Thanks.
2014-11-23T13:37:23Z pjb: This was discussed a long time ago on cll, IIRC, and sbcl implementors only chosed to warn on duplicate parameter names.
2014-11-23T13:38:00Z beach: As I recall, it's not only a warning, but an error.
2014-11-23T13:38:14Z zeebrah joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:38:14Z pjb: s/warn/err/ then :-/
2014-11-23T13:39:48Z pjb: sbcl tends to be a little strict in general.
2014-11-23T13:40:03Z beach: True.  And I agree with that, as long as it's conforming behavior.
2014-11-23T13:40:14Z beach: But this one doesn't seem to be conforming.
2014-11-23T13:40:14Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-23T13:40:51Z beach: Now, of course, processing lambda lists and LET* bindings gets really complicated.
2014-11-23T13:41:15Z beach: Suppose for instance that we have (let* ((x 10) (x (1+ x))) (declare (special x)) ...)
2014-11-23T13:41:27Z pjb: :-)
2014-11-23T13:41:50Z beach: First, we have to discover that its the second X that is special, before we can process the first X.
2014-11-23T13:41:53Z pjb: Since the lexical x is not visible, it shouldn't matter that it's lexical, I'd say.
2014-11-23T13:42:24Z beach: It matters that it is not special.
2014-11-23T13:42:31Z beach: Oh, I guess not.
2014-11-23T13:42:50Z beach: Yes, it does...
2014-11-23T13:43:02Z pjb: Notice that declarations are the reason why let* is not equivalent to the usual naive embedded let form. We have to intersperce declarations where they apply.
2014-11-23T13:43:23Z beach: (let* ((x 10) (x (progn (f) (1+ x))) (declare (special x))) ...))
2014-11-23T13:43:24Z pjb: Now the question is whether such a declare apply to both x or not.
2014-11-23T13:43:32Z Longlius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T13:43:36Z pjb: In the case of the let* form I'd say it applies to both.
2014-11-23T13:43:59Z beach: So if F declares X special and prints it, it would print 10?
2014-11-23T13:44:14Z pjb: So, for consistency, we could say that declarations would apply to both parameters too.
2014-11-23T13:44:26Z pjb: Definitely.
2014-11-23T13:44:30Z beach: Interesting thought.
2014-11-23T13:44:46Z beach: Now we need Shinmera to test it in all his implementations. :)
2014-11-23T13:45:22Z tadni quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T13:45:46Z pjb: clall -r '(defun f () (declare (special x)) (print x))' '(let* ((x 10) (x (progn (f) (1+ x))) (declare (special x))) 42)'
2014-11-23T13:45:47Z beach: SBCL says x is unbound.
2014-11-23T13:45:56Z pjb: they all complain about unbound variable x.
2014-11-23T13:46:13Z pjb: so they consider the first x parameter to be lexical.
2014-11-23T13:46:16Z pppp2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T13:46:19Z Longlius joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:46:26Z beach: That's what I would do to;  I would consider the special declaration to apply only to the last binding.
2014-11-23T13:46:28Z pjb: all = ccl clisp cmu ecl and sblc.
2014-11-23T13:46:40Z beach: Oh, we don't need Shinmera! :)
2014-11-23T13:47:22Z Shinmera: ABCL complains the same way.
2014-11-23T13:47:32Z pjb: beach: I'd consider it to apply to all for the reason we have a LET* _special_ _operator_, and for the reason that special declaration applies to symbols, not to variables.
2014-11-23T13:48:06Z beach: Ah, we needed Shinmera after all. :)
2014-11-23T13:48:13Z beach: pjb: I understand your argument.
2014-11-23T13:48:18Z pjb: if LET* had been a macro, the standard would have specified how it expanded to a LET, and whether the declare would apply only to the innermost variables.
2014-11-23T13:49:42Z beach: Again, the Common Lisp HyperSpec seems to be silent on the matter.
2014-11-23T13:49:55Z beach: It definitely deserves a chapter in that book.
2014-11-23T13:52:20Z jusss joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:52:30Z pjb: I guess, the argument for sbcl rejection, is that LET is defined as binding all the variables at the same time, which would exclude duplicate variable names, and LET* is defined as "similar to LET"  but the binding are in parallel.  Since lambda-lists are like LET*, that would explain the rejection.
2014-11-23T13:53:05Z beach: But SBCL allows it in LET*
2014-11-23T13:53:25Z pjb: That's clearly inconsistent.
2014-11-23T13:53:27Z beach: duplicate variables that is.
2014-11-23T13:53:32Z Vutral joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:54:00Z enitiz joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:54:04Z pjb: (nothing says that in CL lambda-lists have to be equivalent to LET*, but nonetheless, I'd consider it inconsistent).
2014-11-23T13:54:12Z hiyosi quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T13:54:24Z radioninja joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:54:43Z beach: Yes I agree, and the paragraph you cited looks to me like it suggests it's similar to LET*.
2014-11-23T13:55:54Z beach: So, I don't understand all these people who want sockets and whatnot in the Common Lisp standard.  There is enough material just clarifying the current standard for a new 1000-page document.
2014-11-23T13:56:22Z pjb: :-)
2014-11-23T13:56:24Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-11-23T13:57:36Z beach: What bugs me is that such a document is not hard to write.  It only requires collecting well-known information, testing what existing implementations do, thinking about it hard, asking here for advice, and then writing it down.
2014-11-23T13:57:38Z Shinmera: Before I came to appreciate the clhs I would've probably scratched my head at a lack of sockets/threading/whatever-thing-java-has too
2014-11-23T13:58:11Z Shinmera: beach: What you just described is something I'd put down as "very hard" for most people that don't also have an avid interest in things like this.
2014-11-23T13:58:11Z pjb: beach: we have to keep in mind the genesis of CL: it's basically a LCM of existing implementations.
2014-11-23T13:58:27Z beach: Shinmera: Is that in an international Java standard written by an independent standard organization?
2014-11-23T13:59:02Z Shinmera: Java does have a committee, but I doubt their specification goes far into the standard libs.
2014-11-23T13:59:09Z beach: pjb: Yes, I am not criticizing it.  Just saying that if we were to decide to improve it, it would not be hard.
2014-11-23T13:59:35Z beach: Shinmera: So it is fair to say that Java doesn't have sockets.  In fact it doesn't even exist.
2014-11-23T13:59:57Z beach: Shinmera: I disagree that it would be "very hard".  "Very time consuming" perhaps.
2014-11-23T14:00:13Z Shinmera: beach: Yes, which is equivalent to "very hard" if you ask a lot of people.
2014-11-23T14:00:34Z uuh joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:00:40Z beach: I distinguish between "hard" and "straightforward but time consuming".
2014-11-23T14:01:17Z beach: To me "hard" is stuff that requires research and for which the answer is not clear.
2014-11-23T14:02:04Z Shinmera: I agree.
2014-11-23T14:02:26Z beach: .. but "a lot of people" might not, huh?
2014-11-23T14:02:35Z beach: Oh, well.
2014-11-23T14:02:49Z ASau` joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:02:54Z Shinmera: Yeah. I'm just a bit sour because often times people turn down suggestions of mine as "being too hard" when it only takes time.
2014-11-23T14:03:04Z Shinmera goes off to mutter somewhere else
2014-11-23T14:03:16Z beach: :)
2014-11-23T14:05:41Z motersen joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:05:52Z uuh quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T14:06:11Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T14:08:56Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:10:08Z LiamH joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:12:37Z leo2007 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:14:14Z nand1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T14:14:30Z nand1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:17:21Z Oddity quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T14:17:23Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:27:43Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T14:30:03Z pjb joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:30:52Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:31:22Z ghard joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:32:54Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T14:33:50Z karswell joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:35:23Z beach: AHA!  So it's possible to use MAKE-INSTANCE on STANDARD-CLASS to create a class with the same name as an existing class.  That's good news for SICL bootstrapping.
2014-11-23T14:37:00Z uuh joined #lisp
2014-11-23T14:37:50Z uuh quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-23T14:37:52Z beach: In stage 1 of bootstrapping, I want to create my own (host, standard-) classes for the classes in the MOP hierarchy.
2014-11-23T14:38:17Z beach: Before I just cheated by using a different package for those class names.
2014-11-23T14:38:56Z beach: Now, I can create a SICL first-class global environment and put my own classes in there, with the correct names.
2014-11-23T14:40:13Z loke_: Is Xach around?
2014-11-23T14:40:22Z Xach: maybe
2014-11-23T14:40:26Z loke_: Cool
2014-11-23T14:40:31Z loke_: You got me bug reports?
2014-11-23T14:40:35Z Xach: for zs3?
2014-11-23T14:40:36Z loke_: for zs3
2014-11-23T14:40:37Z Xach: yes.
2014-11-23T14:41:01Z loke_: Just checking :-)
2014-11-23T14:42:15Z loke_: Because I have a feeling my workaround with stop working violently once you implement the fix :-)
2014-11-23T14:45:40Z jusss quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-11-23T14:47:29Z ASau` is now known as ASau
2014-11-23T14:59:10Z zyaku joined #lisp
2014-11-23T15:00:12Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T15:04:28Z pjb: beach: and you would implement your own find-class and defclass to find those classes.
2014-11-23T15:09:54Z theos quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T15:15:38Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T15:21:37Z girrig quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T15:26:04Z beach: pjb: Yes.
2014-11-23T15:26:06Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-23T15:26:11Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T15:26:39Z beach: Since I am implementing the MOP, I already have definitions of those.
2014-11-23T15:27:01Z beach: I would have to tweak them a bit to work in the host environment perhaps.
2014-11-23T15:27:43Z drmeister: Good morning
2014-11-23T15:27:54Z beach: Hello drmeister
2014-11-23T15:28:17Z girrig joined #lisp
2014-11-23T15:28:27Z drmeister: beach: did you see my email about general.lisp
2014-11-23T15:28:35Z beach: I did.
2014-11-23T15:28:42Z beach: I'll try to come up with better names.
2014-11-23T15:29:26Z drmeister: One thought was the name-of-the-dir.lisp
2014-11-23T15:29:41Z beach: But yesterday and today I was busy debugging the new code for lambda lists, including the AST interpreter for testing it.
2014-11-23T15:29:59Z beach: drmeister: Don't worry about it.  I'll come up with something.
2014-11-23T15:30:29Z drmeister: It would be so helpful for debugging and backtraces.
2014-11-23T15:31:02Z beach: I believe you.  I don't have the problem, but I can believe that you do.
2014-11-23T15:31:09Z maxpeck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T15:31:49Z phax joined #lisp
2014-11-23T15:31:56Z henesy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T15:32:00Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T15:32:17Z drmeister: Great!  I am starting to write the Cleavir/Clasp compiler.
2014-11-23T15:32:19Z jumblerg quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-23T15:32:40Z drmeister: I run the clasp source code through Sexp->AST->HIR->LLVM-IR
2014-11-23T15:33:16Z beach: Sounds like a plan.
2014-11-23T15:33:18Z drmeister: When I run into problems I'll send them to you.
2014-11-23T15:33:21Z drmeister: :-)
2014-11-23T15:33:34Z beach: As long as they are not with the LLVM, sure.
2014-11-23T15:33:50Z drmeister: Yes.   I'll do my best to isolate the problem.
2014-11-23T15:36:25Z drmeister: I deleted my fork of SICL, created a new one and I'm going to use that.   I found rebasing with git submodules was giving me some confusing problems.   Now I'm just using my fork as a checkpoint.  When you make changes to SICL I'll pull them and fast-forward the fork.
2014-11-23T15:37:40Z beach: OK.  I am no GIT expert, so I wouldn't know what to do with a fork anyway.
2014-11-23T15:41:28Z drmeister: I ran into a HIR generation problem trying to generate HIR for (setq *xxx* t)   where *xxx* is a special variable.
2014-11-23T15:42:14Z drmeister: It was an assertion failure in Cleavir:   The assertion (AND (NULL (CLEAVIR-AST-TO-HIR::RESULTS #1=CLEAVIR-AST-TO-HIR::CONTEXT)) (= (LENGTH (CLEAVIR-AST-TO-HIR::SUCCESSORS #1#)) 1)) failed
2014-11-23T15:42:25Z beach: When did you try it?
2014-11-23T15:42:31Z drmeister: last night
2014-11-23T15:43:03Z beach: I'll look into it.
2014-11-23T15:43:05Z drmeister: But my SICL fork was from the day before so.
2014-11-23T15:43:13Z beach: Ah, that could change things.
2014-11-23T15:43:23Z beach: I did a lot of work yesterday and today.
2014-11-23T15:43:42Z drmeister: I'll fast forward to your latest code.
2014-11-23T15:44:13Z henesy joined #lisp
2014-11-23T15:48:12Z pnpuff joined #lisp
2014-11-23T15:48:48Z drmeister: I really like ASDF - it's very convenient
2014-11-23T15:50:04Z drmeister: I'll submit issues to github for the problems that I find - that will help organize things.
2014-11-23T15:50:13Z beach: Great.
2014-11-23T15:50:37Z beach: I have been working all day, so I am a bit tired.  I also need to go get some food.  I'll be back in a bit.
2014-11-23T15:50:54Z drmeister: No problem.  I need to clean the house today.
2014-11-23T15:51:52Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T15:53:11Z corni quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-23T15:53:20Z guicho quit (Quit: さようなら)
2014-11-23T15:54:04Z pinupgeek quit (Quit: pinupgeek)
2014-11-23T15:54:04Z Patzy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T15:54:16Z Patzy joined #lisp
2014-11-23T15:57:05Z drdanmaku joined #lisp
2014-11-23T15:57:58Z loke_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T15:58:54Z drmeister: beach: There - I created an issue.
2014-11-23T15:59:22Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:01:03Z loke_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:01:50Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:02:36Z ASau joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:07:17Z pnpuff quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-11-23T16:07:52Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T16:08:01Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:08:17Z pnpuff joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:11:16Z corni joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:11:16Z corni quit (Changing host)
2014-11-23T16:11:16Z corni joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:14:52Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-23T16:17:00Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:26:23Z jlarocco joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:27:13Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:29:01Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-11-23T16:42:41Z motersen quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-11-23T16:45:32Z resttime joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:45:45Z dagnachew joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:47:25Z chu joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:47:28Z cy joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:50:58Z Oddity joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:52:31Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:53:08Z ManDay joined #lisp
2014-11-23T16:53:26Z ManDay: Hello, why does    ((car (list + - * /)) 2 3)    work, but    ((car '(+ - * /)) 2 3)    doesn't ?
2014-11-23T16:54:02Z pjb: Both do not work.
2014-11-23T16:54:09Z pjb: Neither is a Common Lisp form.
2014-11-23T16:54:10Z ManDay: Or rather, what is the difference between list ... and quote (...) ?
2014-11-23T16:54:22Z ManDay: Oh, wrong channel
2014-11-23T16:54:26Z pjb: list builds a new list, quote returns its argument unchanged and unevaluated.
2014-11-23T16:54:57Z ManDay: Thanks
2014-11-23T16:57:28Z theos joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:04:38Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:07:36Z kub4 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-23T17:09:48Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-11-23T17:10:02Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-23T17:10:56Z bgs100 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:11:35Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:13:15Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T17:13:54Z Vutral joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:15:37Z arenz joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:19:44Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:19:50Z kushal joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:19:55Z kushal quit (Changing host)
2014-11-23T17:19:55Z kushal joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:20:22Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:23:10Z sheilong joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:24:58Z sheilong quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-23T17:37:17Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T17:37:31Z dagnachew quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T17:38:35Z chu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-23T17:40:09Z fantazo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:43:01Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-23T17:44:40Z mrSpec quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T17:45:26Z pinupgeek joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:45:26Z pinupgeek quit (Changing host)
2014-11-23T17:45:26Z pinupgeek joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:48:04Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:49:50Z pinupgeek quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T17:51:17Z kub4 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:53:35Z anunnaki joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:53:59Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:54:05Z chu joined #lisp
2014-11-23T17:57:08Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-11-23T17:58:46Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T17:59:52Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:02:46Z beach left #lisp
2014-11-23T18:05:06Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:08:58Z dagnachew joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:11:59Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T18:12:21Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo)
2014-11-23T18:12:50Z karswell joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:16:00Z ManDay quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3)
2014-11-23T18:18:25Z resttime_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:18:52Z jl_3 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:18:54Z Grue`` joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:19:03Z kanru joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:19:11Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T18:19:12Z xebd` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T18:19:15Z xebd`` joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:19:16Z pt1_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:19:25Z chu_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:19:26Z denisrum|2 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:19:33Z denisrum quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T18:19:34Z wglb` joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:19:50Z chu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T18:20:22Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:20:38Z edran quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T18:20:42Z wglb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T18:20:45Z edran joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:21:26Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:21:26Z jl_2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:22:00Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:22:00Z Grue` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:23:43Z Grue`` is now known as Grue`
2014-11-23T18:24:44Z cwandrews quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:25:24Z byte48 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:25:36Z byte48 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:27:18Z pnpuff quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2014-11-23T18:27:53Z xebd`` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:29:17Z vinleod quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2014-11-23T18:29:58Z pnpuff joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:30:51Z jlarocco quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-11-23T18:31:46Z jlarocco joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:33:12Z jlarocco quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-23T18:40:07Z loke_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:40:27Z loke_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:41:17Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:44:24Z hardenedapple joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:50:16Z murftown joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:50:53Z rx_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:51:10Z murftown: hey guys, in SBCL is there a way to looks up the code to a function at runtime?  maybe in sb-introspect?
2014-11-23T18:51:27Z Bicyclidine: disassemble?
2014-11-23T18:51:37Z pinupgeek joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:51:37Z pinupgeek quit (Changing host)
2014-11-23T18:51:37Z pinupgeek joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:51:56Z murftown: or is there a debug mode where the original code is "kept" filed away along with the compiled function code so I can look at it for debugging purposes?
2014-11-23T18:55:12Z murftown: actually I think I may have answered my own question
2014-11-23T18:57:30Z pnpuff: murftown: take a look at SLDB, the debugger provided by SLIME!
2014-11-23T18:57:52Z kanru quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T18:58:05Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2014-11-23T18:58:11Z murftown: pnpuff: thanks!  question for you, if I'm already really into Vim, do you recommend checking out SLIME+emacs first or slimv instead?
2014-11-23T18:59:19Z pnpuff: murftown: I think you've to use Emacs too :)
2014-11-23T18:59:41Z murftown: pnpuff: ok I will check it out
2014-11-23T19:01:34Z pt1_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T19:02:31Z JokesOnYou77 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:03:52Z ehu joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:11:10Z phax quit (Quit: phax)
2014-11-23T19:12:30Z chu_ is now known as chu
2014-11-23T19:13:11Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:14:02Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:14:53Z murftown: ok, I found that if I do (sb-introspect:find-definition-source #'func-name) it gives me a structure with filename and char-offset info of where the source code is
2014-11-23T19:15:16Z Bicyclidine: murftown: if you have emacs/slime i'd just see what M-. does.
2014-11-23T19:15:48Z murftown: Bicyclidine: I'm still going to need a programmatic solution too for my genetic algorithms project
2014-11-23T19:16:09Z murftown: but yes!  definitely should check that out too, I'm sure it will totally change my debugging process
2014-11-23T19:16:16Z kushal joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:16:18Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:16:29Z Bicyclidine: murftown: no, i mean, look at what M-. does and copy it for your whatever.
2014-11-23T19:16:50Z murftown: Bicyclidine: k, will do
2014-11-23T19:17:05Z murftown: anyways, my question right now was a tangent:  I have a structure like this: #S(SB-INTROSPECT:DEFINITION-SOURCE :PATHNAME #P"/Users/foo/lisp.lisp" :FORM-PATH (1) :CHARACTER-OFFSET 512 :FILE-WRITE-DATE 3625756486 :PLIST NIL :DESCRIPTION NIL)
2014-11-23T19:17:29Z murftown: starting with #S, I guess that means it's an object or a struct or something.  how do I get these individual items?  assoc doesn't work, nor get
2014-11-23T19:17:55Z Bicyclidine: a struct.
2014-11-23T19:18:09Z Bicyclidine: probably something like sb-introspect:definition-source-pathname.
2014-11-23T19:19:06Z murftown: Bicyclidine: gotcha
2014-11-23T19:19:09Z billstclair joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:19:09Z billstclair quit (Changing host)
2014-11-23T19:19:09Z billstclair joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:19:27Z Bicyclidine: murftown: again, M-. knows all this, I imagine
2014-11-23T19:20:07Z murftown: Bicyclidine: ok, ok, I'm gonna get my SLIME on right now :) thanks again
2014-11-23T19:21:22Z wws quit (Ping timeout: 184 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:21:58Z kushal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T19:22:09Z Joreji joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:22:29Z wws quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:22:51Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:24:53Z wws joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:26:26Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:27:41Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:30:27Z prxq joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:31:16Z spacebat quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:31:41Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-23T19:32:38Z spacebat joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:32:48Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-11-23T19:34:22Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:35:35Z madmalik quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2014-11-23T19:35:37Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-11-23T19:35:47Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T19:36:23Z yeticry joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:39:06Z zyaku quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-11-23T19:39:20Z murftown: Ok, I'm trying to startup SLIME (by typing M-x slime), but it is apparently using ASCII encoding and crashing on one of my files I'm including in my sbclrc - any way to make it use UTF-8?
2014-11-23T19:39:44Z billstclair joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:39:54Z billstclair quit (Changing host)
2014-11-23T19:39:54Z billstclair joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:40:09Z murftown:   :ASCII stream decoding error on #<SB-SYS:FD-STREAM for "file /foo/lisp.lisp" {11FFD611}>: the octet sequence #(226) cannot be decoded.
2014-11-23T19:40:33Z _death: (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix)
2014-11-23T19:40:47Z wws quit (Ping timeout: 183 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:41:30Z murftown: _death: I tried putting that in my .emacs but it didn't fix it… my .emacs file doesn't mention slime, yet emacs says I have the package installed… I'll try entering that manually after I get into emacs
2014-11-23T19:41:41Z ggole quit
2014-11-23T19:42:16Z wws quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:42:23Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:42:41Z rx_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-11-23T19:43:07Z rx_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:43:57Z murftown: yeah didn't work, same error message
2014-11-23T19:45:07Z katco: is it OK to try and pass a pointer to a bit-vector to some c-code via cffi? or is there a danger that lisp could move the memory around on me?
2014-11-23T19:45:11Z zyaku joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:45:31Z pnpuff: murftown: take a look at the SLIME User Manual  -  2 Getting started  -
2014-11-23T19:45:35Z s00pcan joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:45:59Z Bicyclidine: katco: i don't think that will work. not sure, though.
2014-11-23T19:46:44Z katco: Bicyclidine: you're probably right... =/ i am trying to avoid having to allocate a block of foreign-memory via cffi and work with it through foreign pointers
2014-11-23T19:49:05Z denisrum|2 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:51:49Z pnpuff: katco: with C every array identifier is converted to an unmodifiable pointer that points to the array's first element, so a[i] is the same of *(a + i)
2014-11-23T19:52:39Z katco: pnpuff: i'm sorry, i'm not connecting the dots... i knew that, but i don't see how it's relevant?
2014-11-23T19:52:58Z katco: pnpuff: i have a block of memory i'd like to manipulate using lisp constructs, and then pass it to a c function that takes a void*
2014-11-23T19:53:38Z Bicyclidine: pnpuff says random things sometimes.
2014-11-23T19:53:59Z pnpuff: yes, I'm sorry! :)
2014-11-23T19:54:11Z katco: pnpuff: lol no worries
2014-11-23T19:55:40Z henesy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-23T19:56:43Z Grue`: murftown: could be SBCL encoding problem as well. sb-impl::*default-external-format* is not :utf-8 on some systems
2014-11-23T19:57:04Z wws joined #lisp
2014-11-23T19:58:24Z murftown: Grue`: I'll check that possibility out, though just running sbcl from the command line works fine
2014-11-23T19:59:20Z Grue`: well, I'm just throwing it out there, I forgot why I had to include that in my .sbclrc, but it had something to do with unicode
2014-11-23T19:59:21Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 184 seconds)
2014-11-23T20:00:43Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T20:01:29Z JokesOnYou77: So I think I've asked this here before, but I still have trouble remembering, does it matter what order my functions are defined?  For readability, I typically like to have a main driver function at the top of a file that calls all of the appropriately named helpers so that reading the main function describes what's in the rest of the file.
2014-11-23T20:01:55Z Bicyclidine: JokesOnYou77: in compile-file, no, as long as they're toplevel and in the same file.
2014-11-23T20:02:31Z JokesOnYou77: Bicyclidine, Excellent.  But in a load, because it's being interpreted, it matters, right?
2014-11-23T20:02:50Z pnpuff: murftown: _maybe_ you've to add (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) to .emacs file, but I don't know for sure since I'm not using SBCL
2014-11-23T20:03:03Z Bicyclidine: JokesOnYou77: yes, but calling load on a .lisp file might compile it depending on implementation
2014-11-23T20:03:28Z JokesOnYou77: Bicyclidine, Oh, I did not know that, interesting.  Thank you
2014-11-23T20:04:18Z murftown: Grue`:  whooaaa you got it!  on the commandline it says :UTF-8, in emacs it says :US-ASCII
2014-11-23T20:04:49Z Grue`: interesting, maybe it depends on the type of terminal
2014-11-23T20:07:00Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2014-11-23T20:07:10Z pnpuff: murftown: just try echo $LANG to know your terminal's character encoding
2014-11-23T20:07:19Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:07:35Z Shinmera: murftown: Grue`: I'm not sure if that would work too, but http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Multiple-Lisps.html has a :coding-system argument for SBCL
2014-11-23T20:08:49Z MightyJoe quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2014-11-23T20:08:52Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-23T20:09:05Z pnpuff: yes, there was also an useful entry in the SLIME user manual : 2.5.2. Multiple Lisps
2014-11-23T20:09:18Z MightyJoe joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:11:22Z drl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T20:12:02Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T20:12:15Z murftown: Sweet!  I got SLIME to load up with UTF-8!  Thanks Grue`
2014-11-23T20:12:50Z karswell joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:14:01Z Shinmera: I think the debian sbcl (used to?) use ascii as default encoding rather than utf-8
2014-11-23T20:14:27Z Shinmera: I remember that tripping me up at some point and I didn't have any idea why things worked locally but not on my server.
2014-11-23T20:16:40Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:17:25Z billstclair joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:17:25Z billstclair quit (Changing host)
2014-11-23T20:17:25Z billstclair joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:19:22Z pnpuff quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2014-11-23T20:19:52Z wws quit (Ping timeout: 184 seconds)
2014-11-23T20:20:52Z wws quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-23T20:26:10Z haom left #lisp
2014-11-23T20:28:29Z Jesin joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:30:29Z towodo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:30:52Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T20:31:17Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T20:32:45Z murftown quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-23T20:33:04Z wws joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:35:12Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: restart)
2014-11-23T20:35:27Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)
2014-11-23T20:35:59Z henesy joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:36:32Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-23T20:38:17Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:39:01Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:39:48Z Bicyclidine quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-23T20:43:46Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:44:20Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:44:36Z Bicyclidine quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-23T20:44:43Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:50:40Z nydel quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2014-11-23T20:51:11Z capurs joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:52:04Z nydel joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:53:07Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: trying yet more else)
2014-11-23T20:54:15Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:55:29Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2014-11-23T20:59:21Z rvchangue quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-23T21:00:42Z rvchangue joined #lisp
2014-11-23T21:02:57Z drewc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T21:05:38Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-11-23T21:06:09Z pinupgeek quit (Quit: pinupgeek)
2014-11-23T21:07:05Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-23T21:07:51Z militaristically quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-23T21:08:27Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-11-23T21:10:28Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T21:13:48Z katco: /
2014-11-23T21:14:05Z katco: i was under the mistaken impression that a loop with upto was a < num, not <= num
2014-11-23T21:14:14Z katco: is there a way to do < num?
2014-11-23T21:15:15Z katco: i think i just found it... below?
2014-11-23T21:15:41Z Bicyclidine: I'm having trouble with slime. Something about "error in timer". Google gives me a fix that doesn't make sense, asks me to change a local variable in slime.el that it doesn't set (presumably a version thing). Advice?
2014-11-23T21:15:50Z Bicyclidine: katco: below, yes
2014-11-23T21:16:05Z katco: Bicyclidine: ty
2014-11-23T21:16:18Z hiroaki joined #lisp
2014-11-23T21:17:43Z Bicyclidine: I tried installing slime from MELPA like the git page suggests and melpa is unaware of slime. this is not going well.
2014-11-23T21:18:01Z Shinmera: It still is?
2014-11-23T21:18:03Z Shinmera: Weird
2014-11-23T21:18:04Z thawes joined #lisp
2014-11-23T21:18:11Z Shinmera: I was wondering about that, I think it disappeared some weeks ago.
2014-11-23T21:18:19Z AntiSpamMeta quit
2014-11-23T21:18:20Z Shinmera: Don't ask me why
2014-11-23T21:18:32Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2014-11-23T21:18:50Z Bicyclidine: well it's in the melpa list online.
2014-11-23T21:18:54Z Bicyclidine: but i can't install it.
2014-11-23T21:19:20Z Bicyclidine: neither is skype, so i guess i'm not using melpa correctly..
2014-11-23T21:20:19Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T21:22:00Z Shinmera: I can't even seem to fetch a new package list from melpa now, so I have no idea
2014-11-23T21:22:18Z Bicyclidine: Great. First a bug that was supposedly fixed in March and now this.
2014-11-23T21:22:43Z Bicyclidine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/slime/+bug/930303
2014-11-23T21:22:50Z Bicyclidine: slime.el does not even set a lexical-scoping local, as far as I can tell
2014-11-23T21:28:41Z Gardner joined #lisp
2014-11-23T21:29:41Z Bicyclidine: okay, i had an old elc. stupid computers.
2014-11-23T21:30:13Z Shinmera: I still can't get slime to install with melpa though, so that issue remains.
2014-11-23T21:30:31Z Shinmera: Or update, rather, since I initially did install it using melpa
2014-11-23T21:32:24Z Bicyclidine: well it seems like a melpa problem rather than a slime one.
2014-11-23T21:35:31Z ered quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-11-23T21:37:40Z ered joined #lisp
2014-11-23T21:39:03Z henesy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-23T21:39:12Z juanlas joined #lisp
2014-11-23T21:40:00Z capurs quit (Quit:  Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-)
2014-11-23T21:40:13Z phax joined #lisp
2014-11-23T21:40:58Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T21:40:58Z Bicyclidine: is (let ((x 4)) (loop for x = x then (1+ x) ...)) legal? i.e. initializing a variable to itself? sbcl doesn't like it.
2014-11-23T21:43:37Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-23T21:46:44Z Shinmera: Bicyclidine: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/06_abad.htm seems to indicate that the evaluation of the value form is done after the variable is bound (during the first iteration step), so that would not be legal.
2014-11-23T21:47:06Z Bicyclidine: yeah, that's what sbcl does, i was just wondering if it was supposed to. gensym silliness it is.
2014-11-23T21:55:05Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-23T21:59:51Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T22:02:21Z drl joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:02:52Z xrash joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:03:01Z csziacobus: playing around with movitz lately, the amount of stuff that works is _really_ surprising
2014-11-23T22:03:16Z Bicyclidine: on actual hardware or a VM?
2014-11-23T22:03:30Z csziacobus: bicyclidine: vm
2014-11-23T22:03:46Z csziacobus: although i assume it wuld function similarly on hardware
2014-11-23T22:04:12Z cy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T22:05:34Z CrazyWoods quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-11-23T22:06:36Z drl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-23T22:08:20Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-23T22:12:30Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:14:20Z FrostyX: Please is there a possibility to run some lisp script from another lisp script and work with the result of the first one? I am looking on hyperspec for execute/run/process or something like that, but unsuccessfully
2014-11-23T22:14:27Z wglb` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-23T22:14:57Z teiresias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-23T22:15:07Z meiji11 joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:15:39Z cy joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:16:57Z teiresias joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:17:17Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-23T22:18:58Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo)
2014-11-23T22:18:59Z drl joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:19:41Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:24:27Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-23T22:26:55Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:27:33Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T22:28:24Z karswell joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:37:34Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T22:38:18Z oleo joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:39:23Z kpreid joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:42:10Z pnpuff joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:42:19Z pinupgeek joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:45:01Z FrostyX: Aha, I was looking for something special, .. then I realized that it is just (eval (read ...)) so solved. But thank you :-)
2014-11-23T22:46:18Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-23T22:46:53Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。)
2014-11-23T22:50:57Z katco: are there accepted compiler policy values that are good for a production binary using sbcl?
2014-11-23T22:54:22Z pnpuff quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T22:54:51Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:55:23Z henesy joined #lisp
2014-11-23T22:59:27Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-23T22:59:37Z csziacobus: katco; i don't think so, although the defaults arent a bad choice.
2014-11-23T22:59:52Z katco: csziacobus: ok, thank you
2014-11-23T23:01:02Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T23:08:09Z pinupgeek quit (Quit: pinupgeek)
2014-11-23T23:08:10Z ski quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-23T23:12:55Z thawes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T23:13:56Z ehu_ joined #lisp
2014-11-23T23:14:12Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-23T23:16:53Z munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-23T23:17:15Z adlai joined #lisp
2014-11-23T23:18:32Z ehu_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-23T23:24:13Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T23:32:58Z brandonz joined #lisp
2014-11-23T23:33:29Z henesy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-23T23:36:42Z henesy joined #lisp
2014-11-23T23:41:38Z LoicLisp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-23T23:43:24Z henesy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-23T23:47:44Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2014-11-23T23:49:13Z Ethan- joined #lisp
2014-11-23T23:50:21Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-11-23T23:54:48Z zRecursive joined #lisp
2014-11-23T23:54:51Z ski joined #lisp
2014-11-23T23:57:45Z jumblerg joined #lisp