2014-11-16T03:38:46Z ccl-logbot joined #lisp 2014-11-16T03:38:46Z 2014-11-16T03:38:46Z names: ccl-logbot kcj beach phadthai vinleod Vutral oleo__ hiyosi jlongster Petit_Dejeuner_ Ethan- paul0```` killmaster robot-beethoven Odin- Grue` sol__ tomwalker tristero stopbit nyef meiji11 araujo MoALTz_ njsg Beetny gko nydel swflint drdo Hydan tajjada Soft c74d schoppenhauer xristos H4ns harish redline6561 ans jayne johs oconnore arrsim tessier yeticry Nshag wooden samebchase pok emma quasisane ramus edran funnel j0ni agumonkey stux|RC-only TrafficMan mood 2014-11-16T03:38:46Z names: acieroid tokenrov1 whartung nightfly peccu2 axion Amaan ircbrows- gendl scharan ghard drmeister rvirding_ sbryant joshe loke__ Amadiro gingerale drdanmaku xorpse chameco_ jdz_ snafuchs nightsha- dlowe asedeno_ pchrist misv_ vlnx_ Shozan eee-blt_ froggey jackdani1l Ober_ Natch manfoo7`` Adlai nicdev` DrCode vhost- sshirokov loke psy_ Patzy clog john-mcaleely Longlius hyoyoung capitaomorte heurist cwandrews j_king rak[1] housel bobbysmith007 minion lemoinem 2014-11-16T03:38:46Z names: Zhivago wheelsucker ``Erik pjb ggherdov Tristam gabot kjeldahl clop3 splittist lpaste d4gg4d_____ sytse puchacz segmond PuercoPop K1rk InvalidCo birk Tordek_ nhanH sfa_ Bike specbot josteink Subfusc eazar001 spacebat zacharias Krystof s00pcan_ gz ahungry_ bambams__ hugoduncan srcerer dmiles Blkt_ Ralt Mon_Ouie stacksmith resttime Blaguvest Khisanth karswell qlkzy JuanDaugherty matko munksgaard wilfredh theos theBlackDragon tadni edgar-rft TDog rtra 2014-11-16T03:38:46Z names: tbarletz joneshf-laptop QualityAddict cyphase atgreen zeitue wglb GGMethos anannie rvchangue hitecnologys dfox impulse milosn nand1 easye mingvs billstclair gigetoo _5kg Xach BlastHardcheese Ranis White_Flame keen___________2 ssake munge wormphlegm tvaalen antoszka Oddity teiresias Jubb Sgeo cpc26 zxq9 les codeburg kbtr gensym Kabaka benny Riviera schjetne wchun MrWoohoo beppu cmbntr girrig TheMoonMaster AeroNotix salv0 aerique_ shwouchk_ byte48 2014-11-16T03:38:46Z names: justinmcp_ vsync_ gregburd faheem_ p_l tmh_ klltkr P77CAAUFY fikusz patric zickzackv cmatei joneshf dxtr frkout copec GuilOooo rtoym clop jtz roo Denommus lifenoodles victor_lowther gniourf flip214 jsnell heddwch cosmicexplorer rick-monster jasom fe[nl]ix akkad sellout Anarch vert2_ duper Colleen grungier AntiSpamMeta karbak_ cpt_nemo cibs viaken lieven mtd joga gf3 mathrick shifty` mearnsh |3b| bege uber Adeon guaqua Kruppe _d3f aksatac superjudge 2014-11-16T03:38:46Z names: krrrcks ered gluegadget aap msx njsg_ ft p4nd4m4n_ xebd` qbit kanru Posterdati kalzz enn yorick abbe wasamasa __main__ bjorkintosh socksy kyl jbf````` mindCrime_ sauerkrause ski yano l3thal ThePhoeron ck_ Intensity ozzloy mikaelj Neet nisstyre mband troydm brucem Zag sivoais backupthrick cyraxjoe TristamWrk endou_____ pillton eMBee maxpeck luis sjl ecraven CoverSlide diginet zymurgy Takumo bend3r oGMo someone renard_ finnrobi cods replcated necronian 2014-11-16T03:38:46Z names: alchemis7 eagleflo Fade s_e z0d setheus dan64 Borbus honkfestival ferada galdor bcoburn tkd reb newcup yauz fmu inklesspen daimrod Neptu micro^ eak_ cross dim Mandus zbigniew tstc yeltzooo rotty_ sigjuice p_l|backup tomaw stokachu ttm felideon nitro_idiot djinni` 2014-11-16T03:39:34Z nyef: More the latter, but it seems like the path of least resistance IS the former. 2014-11-16T03:40:43Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T03:42:56Z beach: So you don't need to export the new kind of label you want? 2014-11-16T03:43:15Z beach: ... if I understand your suggestion above. 2014-11-16T03:44:28Z nyef: I need to export it, I just don't need to be able to reference it directly. 2014-11-16T03:49:08Z beach: I guess I am not awake enough to understand the details. If you don't refer to a label directly, what other ways are there to refer to it? 2014-11-16T03:49:34Z kcj joined #lisp 2014-11-16T03:51:08Z nyef: Via a FIXUP, which amounts to an inter-file reference. 2014-11-16T03:51:29Z nyef: And I can turn around and use the same mechanism for a within-file reference... I think. 2014-11-16T03:52:18Z nyef: Yeah, routines are dumped before fixups, I can use it within the same ifle. 2014-11-16T03:52:26Z nyef: s/ifle/file/. 2014-11-16T03:53:54Z izirku joined #lisp 2014-11-16T03:54:50Z beach: So you found a solution? 2014-11-16T03:55:46Z nyef: Yeah, though it might be a bit hacky. 2014-11-16T03:56:04Z nyef: I'm roughing in my initial use-case now before actually trying to implement it. 2014-11-16T03:56:43Z nyef notes that emacs tramp buffers don't behave well when the remote server is down. 2014-11-16T03:57:43Z beach: drmeister: I got your mail, but it's too early for me to understand them. :) 2014-11-16T03:57:52Z beach: drmeister: What is the current state of things? 2014-11-16T03:58:12Z izirku quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-16T03:58:39Z drmeister: I'm changing every EXT:LAMBDA-BLOCK to LAMBDA with a BLOCK when necessary. 2014-11-16T03:59:28Z beach: drmeister: If you don't want to do that, you can define how to convert a new special form to AST as a method in Cleavir. 2014-11-16T04:00:02Z pjb: beach: The conclusion is that there are special operators such as FUNCTION that should not be extended by implementations, because that will prevent conforming code walkers to work. 2014-11-16T04:00:19Z beach: Oh, OK. 2014-11-16T04:00:24Z pjb: For a special operator such as LET, if it was extended, a macro could be provided, but for FUNCTION it's not possible to provide such a macro. 2014-11-16T04:00:37Z beach: Yes, I see. 2014-11-16T04:00:45Z pjb: But anyways, I would argue that code walkers are entitled to not test for macro-function for the listed standard special operators. 2014-11-16T04:00:50Z drmeister: ECL modified the FUNCTION special operator so that it recognizes a construct called (EXT:LAMBDA-BLOCK name (...lambda-list...) ...body...) which is essentially (LAMBDA (...lambda-list...) (BLOCK name ...body...)) [ ignoring decls and doc-strings ]. 2014-11-16T04:01:09Z drmeister: I think it breaks code walkers. 2014-11-16T04:01:12Z pjb: a lot of implementations extend FUNCTION unfortunately. 2014-11-16T04:01:42Z Bike: there could probably be some portable protocol for dealing with that. 2014-11-16T04:01:43Z beach: I guess I should start reading the logs. 2014-11-16T04:01:54Z pjb: Instead, they should provide a new special operator (with a macro) to deal with those extensions. 2014-11-16T04:01:55Z Bike: there isn't, but there could be 2014-11-16T04:02:37Z drmeister: What bike and pjb said. 2014-11-16T04:02:54Z pjb: Bike: normally, the protocol is to provide a macro-function. But for an operator like FUNCTION, it's not possible: it's the only operator able to create closures. 2014-11-16T04:03:13Z Bike: well, yeah, i mean there'd be a different one specifically for function. 2014-11-16T04:05:40Z drmeister: It would be unsavory to modify Cleavir to handle EXT:LAMBDA-BLOCK 2014-11-16T04:06:04Z drmeister: So I figured I would change all of the LAMBDA-BLOCK's to LAMBDA's 2014-11-16T04:06:34Z drmeister: I'm doing it carefully, taking into account putting docstrings and decls in the right places. 2014-11-16T04:06:48Z beach: drmeister: I see. But as far as I am concerned, it ought to be possible for implementations to configure Cleavir to deal with new special operators. 2014-11-16T04:07:13Z beach: But I get the argument against LAMBDA-BLOCK. 2014-11-16T04:07:16Z drmeister: Now I'm thinking that I could have written a FUNCTION-BLOCK macro that and replace the FUNCTION invocations that contain LAMBDA-BLOCK 2014-11-16T04:08:17Z pjb: beach: sure. the question is by whom clearvir is used. If by an implementation, they can provide their own function special operator with extension (they should not). If by a code walker, it shouldn't have to know the implementation details of each and all implementations. Therefore implementations should not extend CL:FUNCTION. 2014-11-16T04:08:30Z drmeister: This isn't a new special operator. It's the FUNCTION special operator that has been extended to support a different first argument. 2014-11-16T04:08:47Z pjb: Instead they should provide a new special operator (therefore with a macro-function). 2014-11-16T04:09:14Z beach: pjb: Yeah, I think I get it. 2014-11-16T04:09:29Z beach: drmeister: Right. That complicates things. 2014-11-16T04:09:34Z pjb: Perhaps clearvir could provide checking of the API of CL:FUNCTION; implementations would provide the implementations, but clearvir would filter the API. 2014-11-16T04:09:57Z drmeister: I'm pissed that ECL would do something like this. The cost is enormous and the benefit is minimal. 2014-11-16T04:09:59Z pjb: The same will probably have to be done for other standard special operators. 2014-11-16T04:10:36Z beach: drmeister: It is easy to fall into the trap when you are thinking of your own implementation only. 2014-11-16T04:11:14Z beach: drmeister: Thinking "implementation independent" with Cleavir has allowed me to clean up lots of dubious designs. 2014-11-16T04:12:57Z pjb: Well, I'm a little too strict. 2014-11-16T04:13:50Z pjb: No, I'm right. From the implementation point of view, it could provide CL:FUNCTION as a macro expanding to an implementation specific special operator. But the API of CL:FUNCTION must not be extended. 2014-11-16T04:14:42Z beach: Sounds right. 2014-11-16T04:15:00Z pjb: I take the stand that tools such as code walkers are essentially their own implementation of CL, mapping the standard CL special operators to their own semantics, and therefore they should not have to macroexpand them when they have a macro-function. 2014-11-16T04:31:26Z jlongster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T04:31:41Z jlongster joined #lisp 2014-11-16T04:32:25Z beach: So the Alexandria library was named after someone's daughter? I thought it was just named after another library. 2014-11-16T04:32:31Z beach: [reading the logs] 2014-11-16T04:33:14Z nyef: beach: Alexandria the lisp library was named after the "Library of Alexandria", which is named after the city in which it was established, which was named after someone's daughter. 2014-11-16T04:33:24Z nyef: There are a couple of levels of indirection in there, but it's there. 2014-11-16T04:33:28Z beach: Yeah, OK. 2014-11-16T04:35:16Z pjb: beach: and my own library is renamed after the library built on the cenders of Alexandria's library :-) 2014-11-16T04:35:30Z beach: pjb: Yeah, I noticed that. 2014-11-16T04:35:30Z pjb: s/renamed/named Cesarum,/ 2014-11-16T04:36:35Z pjb: eventually, we'll have a library named the TGB :-) 2014-11-16T04:36:41Z beach: Yesterday, I suggested introducing two new instructions in HIR to handle multiple values in various situations, but I think I'll do it differently. Instead of introducing new instructions, I think I'll introduce a new type of data for multiple values. Then, multiple values could be used with other instructions, should this turn out to be necessary. 2014-11-16T04:37:40Z nyef: That makes a bit more sense, similar to how SBCL has single-value and multiple-value LVARs. 2014-11-16T04:37:47Z ered quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T04:37:59Z beach: nyef: Oh, good. That means I am not completely off. 2014-11-16T04:39:35Z beach: Either way, the CONTEXT class needs to be extended. Currently, when all values are required it automatically means that the form is in a tail position. I need to distinguish the two, because I will need for an expression not in a tail position to provide multiple values. 2014-11-16T04:41:43Z beach: drmeister: So am I understanding you correctly that there is currently no known issue with Cleavir that I need to address in order for your work to continue? 2014-11-16T04:44:48Z drmeister: I don't think so. I think it's on me to fix this mess in the ECL code to replace LAMBDA-BLOCK with LAMBDA. If I want to proceed I'll have to do this. 2014-11-16T04:45:02Z beach: Yeah. 2014-11-16T04:47:16Z beach: It's an interesting way of doing it. Take an existing implementation and get it to work. Then incrementally replace the original implementation with better stuff. But maybe that's not how you had planned it. 2014-11-16T04:48:54Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime) 2014-11-16T04:49:58Z drmeister: Not quite. 2014-11-16T04:50:23Z nyef: It seems like a reasonable approach to me. 2014-11-16T04:50:37Z nyef: "Make it work, make it right, make it fast", after all. 2014-11-16T04:50:59Z beach: Exactly. 2014-11-16T04:51:15Z beach: It is very satisfying to always have something that "works". 2014-11-16T04:52:08Z nyef: That's actually one of the reasons why porting a compiler and runtime to a new architecture is so draining: It basically doesn't "work" until it's almost complete. 2014-11-16T04:52:23Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2014-11-16T04:52:48Z beach: That sounds very right. 2014-11-16T04:53:14Z izirku joined #lisp 2014-11-16T04:55:16Z drmeister: Well, it appears I've broken defmacro. 2014-11-16T05:04:37Z wheelsucker quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T05:05:05Z drmeister: Nope, I've broken defun. 2014-11-16T05:05:46Z nyef is waiting on a build to find out if he's broken closures and undefined functions. 2014-11-16T05:07:58Z drmeister: You know what's fun? Writing high level Common Lisp macros in pidgin Common Lisp. You need multiple-value-bind - hah! It's not defined yet! You have to use multiple-value-call. 2014-11-16T05:08:19Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2014-11-16T05:08:46Z nyef: Been there, done that. Also done that for FORTH. 2014-11-16T05:11:13Z nyef: (Which goes back to the "always have something working" thing, I've managed to partially port my old FORTH system to x86 Linux, and I've started ANSIfying it, and I'm also trying to fix up the build process so that it can self-host, add new build options so that I can experiment with different runtime models, and start putting together a 65816 port... 2014-11-16T05:11:17Z nyef: ) 2014-11-16T05:11:48Z nyef: But working in small enough chunks that I always have a working system is very nice. 2014-11-16T05:14:07Z nyef: Oh, how... irritating. I can't just slap a fixup in a WORD instruction and expect it to work. 2014-11-16T05:15:14Z nyef: Hrm. Well, there's a "short" instruction... Which also doesn't take FIXUPs. 2014-11-16T05:15:56Z bb010g joined #lisp 2014-11-16T05:19:05Z nyef: Ugh. And the available fixup kinds on PPC don't support any sort of workaround. Lovely. /-: 2014-11-16T05:20:58Z nyef: Nor do sparc, nor do mips, nor do hppa, and alpha seems iffy as well. 2014-11-16T05:21:48Z drmeister grumbles - there's no sense in complaining - there's always someone who has it worse. 2014-11-16T05:22:20Z nyef: Mmm. 2014-11-16T05:23:15Z nyef: I think I'm going to give up for tonight, there's no way to make this work without adding a new fixup-kind and expanding on the WORD instruction definition. /-: 2014-11-16T05:24:00Z pjb: - 2014-11-16T05:24:22Z cy joined #lisp 2014-11-16T05:28:27Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: don't waste your life by reading this) 2014-11-16T05:31:08Z vinleod quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2014-11-16T05:33:25Z beach: I couldn't see myself being deprived of most of Common Lisp in order to write SICL, which is why I decided early on that it would have to be bootstrapped on a complete Common Lisp implementation. 2014-11-16T05:35:12Z ered joined #lisp 2014-11-16T05:37:03Z kuimacro joined #lisp 2014-11-16T05:37:11Z kuimacro quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-16T05:37:51Z kuimacro joined #lisp 2014-11-16T05:40:59Z kuimacro: how to convert char to number? 2014-11-16T05:41:08Z Bike: clhs digit-char-p 2014-11-16T05:41:09Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_digi_1.htm 2014-11-16T05:41:11Z Bike: kuimacro: 2014-11-16T05:41:23Z beach: kuimacro: How do you want the conversion to be done? 2014-11-16T05:41:32Z beach: Digit 1 to number 1? 2014-11-16T05:41:40Z beach: Or Digit 1 to its internal code? 2014-11-16T05:41:42Z Bike: or char-code if you want that, yeah. 2014-11-16T05:41:44Z kuimacro: ansi 2014-11-16T05:41:47Z beach: Or something else. 2014-11-16T05:41:56Z Bike: "ansi" isn't much of a description... 2014-11-16T05:42:12Z kuimacro: ascii 2014-11-16T05:42:28Z Bike: well, probably char-code. 2014-11-16T05:42:48Z kuimacro: thanks 2014-11-16T05:43:40Z kuimacro: i want to write a function like .. in perl 2014-11-16T05:43:55Z Bike: well that's wonderfully impossible to google 2014-11-16T05:44:14Z beach: kuimacro: You can't expect everyone here to know Perl, so you need to describe what .. does. 2014-11-16T05:44:31Z Bike: oh, a range. 2014-11-16T05:44:36Z Bike: like 'a' .. 'z' 2014-11-16T05:44:39Z kuimacro: en 2014-11-16T05:44:59Z Bike: "There are a number of operators in Perl that are made up of nothing but dots. How many of them can you name? There are actually five dot operators in Perl." 2014-11-16T05:45:44Z Bike: .. also means some completely different thing. cool 2014-11-16T05:46:57Z kuimacro: thanks a lot 2014-11-16T05:50:25Z kuimacro` joined #lisp 2014-11-16T05:53:13Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all) 2014-11-16T05:54:49Z kuimacro` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T06:02:20Z drakezhard joined #lisp 2014-11-16T06:06:08Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-16T06:06:30Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-11-16T06:08:42Z pjb: kuimacro: if you want ascii code, then use: (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.ascii:ascii-code #\A) --> 65 2014-11-16T06:09:06Z pjb: and the inverse, code-ascii. 2014-11-16T06:16:49Z drmeister: In backquote forms, what follows a ,@ always has to be a list - correct? I'm going through some old code and I don't understand why something is working that looks like ,@foo where I believe foo is a string. I'm still investigating. 2014-11-16T06:19:02Z beach: drmeister: I don't think it has to be a list if it is at the end of an expression. 2014-11-16T06:20:23Z chu joined #lisp 2014-11-16T06:20:24Z beach: drmeister: As in `(a b c ,@"hello") 2014-11-16T06:20:24Z psy_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-16T06:21:29Z drmeister: Well this is straight out of the ECL source code: 2014-11-16T06:21:32Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/042nxisD 2014-11-16T06:22:09Z drmeister: si::process-declarations returns a string in doc, not a list containing a string. 2014-11-16T06:23:05Z drmeister: I think this is a bug. In this case ,@doc should fail. 2014-11-16T06:23:15Z beach: I think you are right. 2014-11-16T06:23:50Z beach: But maybe doc returns NIL sometimes, so then no error is signaled. 2014-11-16T06:24:19Z beach: And maybe it so happens that all the uses of LAMBDA-BLOCK have no documentation in it? 2014-11-16T06:25:04Z drmeister: This is interesting: 2014-11-16T06:25:34Z drmeister: (macroexpand '(ext::lambda-block test (x) "hi there" (foo) (bar))) --> #'(LAMBDA (X) (BLOCK TEST "hi there" (FOO) (BAR))) 2014-11-16T06:25:56Z drmeister: I think (si::process-declarations lambda-body) is always returning NIL for doc. 2014-11-16T06:26:51Z beach: So "hi there" is just another form? 2014-11-16T06:27:56Z drmeister: That's how it's being treated - I thought it would be treated like a doctoring. 2014-11-16T06:28:01Z drmeister: docstring 2014-11-16T06:28:26Z beach: Yeah, it explains why no error is signaled. 2014-11-16T06:29:29Z drmeister: Is there any point in expanding macros to LAMBDA and adding docstrings to the LAMBDA? 2014-11-16T06:29:39Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T06:30:17Z beach: I suppose the point would be to indicate what macro expanded into it. 2014-11-16T06:30:25Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-11-16T06:30:26Z drmeister: That question may require a lot more context. In ECL the docstrings in DEFUN are passed to documentation functions. 2014-11-16T06:30:49Z drmeister: It's ok, I think I know how to proceed. 2014-11-16T06:35:00Z drmeister: There can only ever be one docstring in a lambda or a form that uses docstrings - is that correct? 2014-11-16T06:35:28Z beach: I think that's true. 2014-11-16T06:35:33Z drmeister: When I read: defun function-name lambda-list [[declaration* | documentation]] form* 2014-11-16T06:35:50Z beach: There is a section that explains that. 2014-11-16T06:36:18Z drmeister: I'm supposed to read the [[declaration* | documentation]] as any number of declarations followed by one or no doctoring. 2014-11-16T06:36:23Z drmeister: *docstring 2014-11-16T06:36:45Z drmeister: There's a section that explains this? 2014-11-16T06:36:48Z drmeister: Looking 2014-11-16T06:37:15Z beach: Yes, I am trying to find it. 2014-11-16T06:38:14Z izirku quit 2014-11-16T06:40:55Z beach: clhs 3.4.11 2014-11-16T06:40:55Z specbot: Syntactic Interaction of Documentation Strings and Declarations: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_dk.htm 2014-11-16T06:43:50Z drmeister: Thank you. I'll sleep on this. Tomorrow I'll try and get the CL code working again with all LAMBDA-BLOCK replaced by LAMBDA 2014-11-16T06:44:20Z beach: OK. 2014-11-16T06:52:10Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2014-11-16T06:54:34Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-11-16T06:56:39Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T06:57:05Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-11-16T06:57:31Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-16T06:57:33Z vinleod joined #lisp 2014-11-16T06:58:02Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T07:06:15Z kuimacro quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) 2014-11-16T07:12:12Z pjb: drmeister: you could do: (defparameter *f* (lambda () "constantly returns 1" 1)) (documentation *f* t) --> "constantly returns 1". 2014-11-16T07:13:30Z pjb: (but only clisp and sbcl do it). 2014-11-16T07:17:11Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:17:59Z pyx joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:18:10Z pyx quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-16T07:22:17Z Odin- quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T07:24:39Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:26:41Z tesuji joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:27:03Z vlnx_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-16T07:29:57Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T07:31:49Z dacoda joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:32:32Z dacoda quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-16T07:35:14Z Shinmera: minion: memo for puchacz: Plump is a lenient XML parser with some extra HTML support thrown in, so yes it can parse HTML5 tags and attributes properly. 2014-11-16T07:35:14Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell puchacz when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-11-16T07:36:38Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:41:46Z drakezhard quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-11-16T07:43:42Z gmind joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:44:29Z cyphase quit (Quit: cyphase.com) 2014-11-16T07:44:49Z drakezhard_ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:44:50Z gmind: hi lisper 2014-11-16T07:45:43Z gmind: I have made a Lisp dialect compiler on .NET, take a look: https://github.com/AbsolutelyZero/Mjonir 2014-11-16T07:45:50Z drakezhard_: (hi *everybody*) 2014-11-16T07:46:38Z fantazo joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:46:51Z Guest79152 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:51:48Z gmind quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T07:53:22Z beach: hello drakezhard_. 2014-11-16T07:53:31Z gmind joined #lisp 2014-11-16T07:53:42Z beach: And hello gmind. 2014-11-16T07:56:26Z gmind: oh.. you sound familiar ,beach 2014-11-16T07:57:05Z beach: Really? 2014-11-16T07:57:25Z gmind: maybe, we have talked before. since 2 years ago , perhaps 2014-11-16T07:57:50Z beach: Here? Then you must have changed your nick since then; I can't find you in the logs. 2014-11-16T08:00:33Z beach: Ah, Gmind! 2014-11-16T08:00:59Z gmind: yes, beach. 2014-11-16T08:01:41Z gmind: I have actively in this channel during 2010-2012, asking to learn something.. 2014-11-16T08:01:51Z beach: Yes, I see it now. 2014-11-16T08:02:25Z Shinmera is heavily considering diving into the sources of Quicklisp to fix the defsystem-depends-on problem as it's messing up Radiance. 2014-11-16T08:03:09Z beach: gmind: You have learned a lot since then if you are able to implement a Lisp-like language. 2014-11-16T08:03:12Z Shinmera: But, later, if at all. Too tired still. 2014-11-16T08:03:36Z gmind: beach, I have been working on making compiler since then , and Mjonir compiler is my first run-able one. Can you have a look ? It can run on Mono also. 2014-11-16T08:03:57Z beach: I saw the repsitory. 2014-11-16T08:04:02Z beach: repository 2014-11-16T08:04:39Z gmind: I made the compiler be able to compile into C# executable and library form. But haven't yet finish the lisp AST 2014-11-16T08:04:43Z vlnx joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:05:15Z beach: I don't use .net myself, but others might be interested. 2014-11-16T08:05:25Z gmind: yeah, Mono for example. 2014-11-16T08:05:32Z Shinmera: I don't think we have a CL compiler targeting .NET yet, do we? 2014-11-16T08:05:45Z Shinmera: (I remember there being an effort to port ABCL, though I'm not sure how far that ever got) 2014-11-16T08:05:50Z gmind: I just want to take use of easy reference interface of .NET framework and its huge libraries. 2014-11-16T08:05:57Z beach: Shinmera: I think you are right. But then I don't think what gmind did is Common Lisp. 2014-11-16T08:06:20Z Shinmera: beach: I don't think so either, CL would be a huge effort. I'm just babbling about what I remember. 2014-11-16T08:06:36Z gmind: beach, yeah, it's not yet Common Lisp. But a basic compiler based on Lisp Syntax . 2014-11-16T08:06:47Z beach: Shinmera: Whaddayamean "huge effort"? :) 2014-11-16T08:07:06Z Shinmera: beach: Well, currently it still is. 2014-11-16T08:07:23Z malbertife joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:07:26Z Shinmera: I am quite excited about the prospects of Cleavir & SICL 2014-11-16T08:07:26Z gmind: we can target Mjonir ( my compiler ) to be a full common lisp implementation on .NET/Mono if community like my approaching 2014-11-16T08:07:37Z beach: Shinmera: Thanks! 2014-11-16T08:08:27Z beach: gmind: My experience is that it is not reasonable to count on the help of the community, unless you have something fairly complete that is also exciting to a lot of people. 2014-11-16T08:09:14Z gmind: beach, then we must wait longer 2014-11-16T08:09:59Z gmind: I see that clojure have a .net implementation, but it seem to be not accepted by lispers 2014-11-16T08:10:03Z beach: Yes, very likely. I also don't know how much excitement you get about .net-related things these days. I am not saying you won't. Just saying I don't know. 2014-11-16T08:10:55Z beach: gmind: Well, this is #lisp on Freenode. #lisp is about Common Lisp, and Freenode is about free software. 2014-11-16T08:11:28Z beach: ... so Clojure or some other dialect on .net might not generate a lot of excitement here. 2014-11-16T08:11:45Z gmind: even when my project is open source ? 2014-11-16T08:12:11Z beach: gmind: Don't let me discourage you. 2014-11-16T08:12:38Z gmind: beach, well, you did. But it doesn't matter =)) 2014-11-16T08:12:40Z beach: gmind: I am just explaining why #lisp on Freenode might not be the best forum for you. 2014-11-16T08:12:48Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:12:52Z drakezhard_ is now known as drakezhard 2014-11-16T08:13:12Z gmind: I don't see it that way 2014-11-16T08:14:23Z H4ns: gmind: are you trying to make your lisp into a common lisp? 2014-11-16T08:15:01Z Shinmera: A friend of mine works at a .NET company, I'm sure he'd at least be a bit interested. 2014-11-16T08:16:04Z gmind: H4ns, I'm still building the core of my compiler, so thinking about what it should be 2014-11-16T08:16:36Z gmind: Shinmera, nice, can you paste him the link ? :P 2014-11-16T08:16:50Z H4ns: gmind: very well. well, if you decide that you want to build a common lisp, then this channel is a good place to discuss. if you want to write "a lisp", then it is not. 2014-11-16T08:17:34Z Shinmera: gmind: I'll tell him once we next talk 2014-11-16T08:17:59Z meiji11 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T08:18:36Z gmind: H4ns, yes, I would see what I should learn from CL 2014-11-16T08:19:05Z gmind: Shinmera, thanks you, just search for Mjonir in my git :D 2014-11-16T08:19:07Z ofosos joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:19:13Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:21:25Z beach: The name sounds similar to "Mjölnir", Thor's hammer. 2014-11-16T08:22:18Z mishoo_ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:22:53Z Shinmera: Hooray, Radiance successfully deployed on a clean VM http://shinmera.tymoon.eu/public/screenshot-2014.11.16-09:21:52.png 2014-11-16T08:24:38Z beach: minion: Please tell me about Radiance! 2014-11-16T08:24:38Z minion: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``Radiance''. 2014-11-16T08:25:17Z Shinmera: I should write a Cliki entry, yes. 2014-11-16T08:25:22Z beach: No need 2014-11-16T08:25:29Z beach: You can teach minion directly. 2014-11-16T08:25:50Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:25:52Z Shinmera: Well, sure, but if it's on Cliki then it's there already too. 2014-11-16T08:26:13Z beach: But minion is having a hard time interpreting Cliki pages these days. 2014-11-16T08:26:38Z Shinmera: I noticed that as well. I might see about fixing that. 2014-11-16T08:27:18Z beach: stassats says he won't modify minion, so Cliki would have to be fixed. 2014-11-16T08:27:34Z Shinmera: Oh. Well alright then. 2014-11-16T08:27:40Z gmind: beach, yes, it's my inspiration since Mjonir just an embedded interpreter in my capstone project at university. 2014-11-16T08:28:45Z malbertife_ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:28:57Z ofosos_ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:29:08Z Shinmera: Colleen: do search cliki Chirp 2014-11-16T08:29:10Z drakezhard quit 2014-11-16T08:29:27Z Shinmera: Eh, that should work. I need to fix that. 2014-11-16T08:29:54Z sol__ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-16T08:30:10Z gmind: Shinmera, are you making a Web framework ? 2014-11-16T08:30:20Z Shinmera: I am, yes. 2014-11-16T08:30:37Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T08:31:17Z gmind: Shinmera, nice. 2014-11-16T08:31:21Z The_Woodsman joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:31:31Z Shinmera really feels the pressure on writing some proper introduction docs for Radiance now... too many people have asked for it. 2014-11-16T08:31:31Z gmind must go now. see everyone later ! 2014-11-16T08:31:45Z beach: So long gmind. 2014-11-16T08:31:50Z JuanDaugherty: bye 2014-11-16T08:31:50Z ofosos quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-16T08:32:24Z Shinmera: On other topics, I don't suppose anyone knows of an effort for a CL library that bridges over OS package managers? 2014-11-16T08:32:46Z gmind: beach, yes. I take more time on it , since I saw its help during the mess of .net 2014-11-16T08:33:26Z malbertife_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-16T08:33:56Z ehaliewicz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T08:37:05Z prxq joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:41:08Z gmind left #lisp 2014-11-16T08:46:02Z k-stz joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:46:51Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-11-16T08:49:51Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-16T08:52:41Z Shinmera: Colleen: do search cliki chirp 2014-11-16T08:52:41Z Colleen: http://www.cliki.net/Chirp : Chirp is a twitter client library. It aims to provide full coverage of the Twitter REST API as well as a bunch of helper functions and methods to make interaction easier and more extensible. 2014-11-16T08:52:49Z Shinmera: Hooray, that works. 2014-11-16T08:58:19Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2014-11-16T09:02:08Z beach: Crap! Now I have to update my pages on Cliki. 2014-11-16T09:03:47Z Shinmera: Alternatively you can try to find ways to break Colleen's search :) 2014-11-16T09:04:00Z beach: Heh! 2014-11-16T09:05:11Z theos quit (Excess Flood) 2014-11-16T09:06:18Z theos joined #lisp 2014-11-16T09:07:22Z The_Woodsman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T09:08:31Z wooden quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-16T09:09:53Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T09:23:57Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T09:27:07Z zeebrah joined #lisp 2014-11-16T09:29:44Z beach: I have an idea for Common Lisp version 2. Instead of trying to standardize ephemeral stuff or changing the syntax, it would be better to just standardize current best practice. For instance, AREF should signal a TYPE-ERROR if ARRAY is not an array, rather than the consequences being undefined. 2014-11-16T09:29:46Z beach: Also, one could for instance require that type declarations check the type and signal an error if (say) SAFETY is 3. 2014-11-16T09:30:10Z beach: All of this would be fairly easy to specify, and would not require an ANSI committee. 2014-11-16T09:34:43Z Shinmera: Generally just a collection of suggestions for all the parts marked as implementation dependant would be neat. 2014-11-16T09:35:29Z beach: Yes, and where the consequences are undefined. 2014-11-16T09:35:46Z beach: Maybe that's the same thing. 2014-11-16T09:36:52Z Shinmera: It would be nice to have a test suite that tests all 'unspecified' parts and reports their results. 2014-11-16T09:37:09Z beach: For different implementations then? Sure. 2014-11-16T09:37:10Z Shinmera: That way comparing existing implementations would be much easier. 2014-11-16T09:37:15Z beach: Right. 2014-11-16T09:39:54Z beach: One of the main problems I see is that lots of Common Lisp HyperSpec entries specify a type for some function argument, but then does not specify what happens if that constraint is violated. By definition then, the consequences are undefined (or unspecified, I forget) in that case. 2014-11-16T09:40:01Z denisrum joined #lisp 2014-11-16T09:40:48Z Shinmera: Definitely. Another issue I have is that a lot of errors don't have a specific type to catch with handler-case/bind 2014-11-16T09:41:01Z beach: I agree. 2014-11-16T09:41:06Z Shinmera: So you have to rely on implementation specific errors, if they even exist at all. 2014-11-16T09:42:19Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T09:43:47Z pppp2 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T09:44:05Z madmalik joined #lisp 2014-11-16T09:45:38Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-16T09:46:06Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight) 2014-11-16T09:48:11Z dagnachew joined #lisp 2014-11-16T09:50:54Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-11-16T09:53:18Z beach: The meaning of certain LOOP constructs could be better explained. 2014-11-16T09:53:55Z Shinmera: Writing a comprehensive blog article about LOOP has been on my todo for a while. 2014-11-16T09:54:06Z Shinmera: It's a bit of a daunting task. 2014-11-16T09:54:21Z beach: Heh, it would be. 2014-11-16T10:02:49Z beach: Shinmera: So what problems do Radiance solve? 2014-11-16T10:03:25Z wasamasa: beach: CL22? 2014-11-16T10:04:19Z beach: wasamasa: Well, that would sound like a successor of CL21 which is not the purpose. 2014-11-16T10:05:00Z Shinmera: beach: The goals it tries to achieve are to provide a framework with extensible core components, so database, server, authentication, etc are exchangeable without having to re-write your apps. It should also not only work as a framework for developers, but be easy and direct to deploy for specific modules so you could, say, quickly set up a blog if you so desired. 2014-11-16T10:06:00Z Shinmera: beach: It tries to solve both the issue of having a good framework to develop apps for and a good CMS for end-users to use. 2014-11-16T10:06:26Z Shinmera: Oh damn, sorry, I need to run! I can try to explain more later if you want. 2014-11-16T10:06:31Z beach: Shinmera: I think I get it, even though you seem to have entered into sales-force mode. 2014-11-16T10:06:38Z beach: :) 2014-11-16T10:07:06Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-11-16T10:12:54Z ofosos joined #lisp 2014-11-16T10:14:27Z ofosos_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-16T10:16:30Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-11-16T10:20:03Z hitecnologys quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T10:20:45Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-11-16T10:26:43Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T10:27:25Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T10:32:31Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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I wish I knew how to describe it better and shorter without relying on buzzwords galore. 2014-11-16T12:14:13Z matko quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T12:14:52Z Shinmera: minion: memo for nyef: Well, I got ahead a bit quicker than expected. http://shinmera.tymoon.eu/public/screenshot-2014.11.16-13:08:31.png 2014-11-16T12:14:52Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-11-16T12:14:56Z Shinmera: stacksmith: ^ 2014-11-16T12:17:21Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-11-16T12:18:10Z matko joined #lisp 2014-11-16T12:23:27Z _5kg joined #lisp 2014-11-16T12:23:27Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T12:23:34Z tajjada quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-16T12:24:46Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-11-16T12:25:04Z jdz_ is now known as jdz 2014-11-16T12:25:22Z tajjada joined #lisp 2014-11-16T12:30:10Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2014-11-16T12:35:22Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T12:35:53Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-16T12:40:43Z ofosos quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-16T12:40:51Z ofosos joined #lisp 2014-11-16T12:44:45Z pppp2 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-16T12:45:52Z ivan4th quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T12:46:48Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T12:47:20Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-11-16T12:47:42Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T12:50:39Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-11-16T12:54:17Z k-dawg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T13:01:30Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:03:57Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T13:04:59Z _5kg joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:14:15Z wooden joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:16:40Z zygentoma quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-16T13:17:14Z ivan4th quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T13:19:19Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:21:57Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-16T13:22:58Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:24:54Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:25:35Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:31:30Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:34:37Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T13:36:52Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T13:42:06Z MoALTz_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T13:44:15Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:46:10Z troydm joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:50:17Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-11-16T13:53:49Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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Some language have a throws clauses included in function signatures). 2014-11-16T14:13:07Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-16T14:13:21Z alexey joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:16:08Z skatbo joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:16:08Z skatbo is now known as lommm 2014-11-16T14:16:18Z lommm quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-16T14:17:30Z nyef joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:17:39Z nyef: G'morning all. 2014-11-16T14:17:39Z minion: nyef, memo from Shinmera: Well, I got ahead a bit quicker than expected. http://shinmera.tymoon.eu/public/screenshot-2014.11.16-13:08:31.png 2014-11-16T14:17:56Z nyef: Oh, nice! 2014-11-16T14:18:14Z Shinmera: There's a lot of STUBbing going on right now, but I'm moving forward steadily. 2014-11-16T14:19:55Z lommm joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:20:51Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T14:21:27Z lommm quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-16T14:21:28Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:21:30Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T14:21:32Z _5kg joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:21:45Z pnpuff quit (Quit: pnpuff) 2014-11-16T14:21:48Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:25:12Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:25:16Z ivan4th quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-16T14:26:19Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:26:23Z Shinmera: (at least this time around I have infinite canvas support from the get-go, so I don't have to worry about somehow mungling that in again like last time) 2014-11-16T14:26:51Z beach: nyef: Since you mentioned debugging, I dreamed up this: http://metamodular.com/sicl-debugger.pdf 2014-11-16T14:26:55Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:26:56Z beach: Let me know what you think. 2014-11-16T14:27:22Z tomwalker left #lisp 2014-11-16T14:27:34Z beach: pjb: I was planning to be very careful. 2014-11-16T14:27:54Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:28:07Z beach: pjb: And I wasn't planning to write anything unless I could obtain some kind of consensus. 2014-11-16T14:29:02Z beach thinks nyef is going to point out that the behavior of the two versions of the body code might be different. 2014-11-16T14:30:05Z nyef: Ouch? Different optimization levels for each body? 2014-11-16T14:30:31Z beach: Yes. The debugging version is going to be very small. 2014-11-16T14:31:08Z beach: Because the normal version will have been subjected to optimizations such as SSA and code replication in order to make it faster. 2014-11-16T14:31:11Z tajjada quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T14:31:47Z beach: It avoids recompilation when a bug is found. 2014-11-16T14:32:04Z nyef: So you'll be debugging code that isn't run in the normal case, and won't be debugging the code that IS run in the normal case. 2014-11-16T14:32:24Z beach: Like I said above, I thought you might say that. 2014-11-16T14:32:44Z nyef: If there are any compiler bugs that get triggered by the code being compiled, this will make them Much Harder to debug. 2014-11-16T14:32:55Z beach: Like I said above, I thought you might say that. :) 2014-11-16T14:32:57Z nyef: AND people will tend to blame the debugger before the compiler. 2014-11-16T14:33:33Z beach: I am describing a debugger for application code, not for system code. 2014-11-16T14:34:18Z beach: It is no different from having to recompile with different debugging settings just to be able to see local variables and such. 2014-11-16T14:35:40Z nyef: No, it's not. Because it introduces uncertainty-principle effects into your debugging over and above what would normally exist. 2014-11-16T14:36:45Z nyef: As soon as you throw the debugger on a function that is misbehaving because of miscompilation because of a blown optimization, you get the un-optimized version, which means that the bug disappears. 2014-11-16T14:37:10Z beach: Yes I know. It is not meant for debugging buggy compilers. 2014-11-16T14:37:38Z nyef: You also still have the issue of what to do when you're several levels down in the call stack and need to start tracing. 2014-11-16T14:38:21Z beach: I don't understand what the issue is. 2014-11-16T14:39:02Z nyef: This only works when you know which functions you need to debug. 2014-11-16T14:39:20Z beach: True. 2014-11-16T14:39:23Z Cymew joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:39:45Z nyef: And if the non-debug versions of the functions are already live on the control stack when you realize that you need to debug them, either your debugger won't work or you'll lose all of your program state. 2014-11-16T14:39:51Z jusss quit (Quit: Bye) 2014-11-16T14:40:18Z nyef: And if it's a bug that takes a bit of doing to reproduce, such as a race condition or other intermittent corruption? 2014-11-16T14:40:48Z beach: Yes, but I think a typical user will do what I currently do (i.e., proclaim debug to 3, safety to 3, in my .sbclrc) and make all functions debugged all the time. The overhead will be minimal. 2014-11-16T14:41:32Z nyef: You may find that the typical user does what I currently do: Leave all optimization settings at default. 2014-11-16T14:41:48Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-16T14:41:49Z beach: I may find that, indeed. 2014-11-16T14:42:45Z beach: I'll try to address your remarks in a future version of that chapter. 2014-11-16T14:42:57Z beach: Thanks for the feedback. 2014-11-16T14:44:55Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-16T14:45:12Z nyef: Oh, and in the second sentence, "imaging" should probably be "imagine". 2014-11-16T14:45:28Z beach: Yes, of course. Thanks! 2014-11-16T14:48:38Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-11-16T14:51:40Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:53:30Z nyef: Oh, one more thing: To my mind the bare minimum function of a debugger is to obtain a backtrace, invoke restarts, and provide some way to interact with the system as a whole, typically a REPL. 2014-11-16T14:53:55Z nyef: And these should work with or without debugging being enable for any function or thread. 2014-11-16T14:56:14Z kanru` joined #lisp 2014-11-16T14:58:13Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-16T15:00:21Z josteink quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-16T15:06:53Z harish quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T15:07:58Z clop2 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T15:22:08Z harish joined #lisp 2014-11-16T15:22:22Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T15:23:09Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-16T15:23:53Z radioninja joined #lisp 2014-11-16T15:27:05Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-11-16T15:33:12Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-11-16T15:44:22Z jlarocco joined #lisp 2014-11-16T15:46:11Z joast joined #lisp 2014-11-16T15:50:44Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-11-16T15:52:58Z davazp joined #lisp 2014-11-16T15:58:45Z Lowl3v3l joined #lisp 2014-11-16T16:02:15Z alexey quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T16:03:10Z josteink joined #lisp 2014-11-16T16:06:41Z arenz joined #lisp 2014-11-16T16:07:35Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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I'm of two minds whether to develop the cffi interface further and use the alsa sequencer for event scheduling 2014-11-16T16:43:57Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T16:45:19Z LiamH quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T16:46:18Z drmeister: pjb: Are you online by any chance? You mentioned that I should be careful that declarations and docstrings can be interleaved (or maybe I misunderstood). Looking through the CLHS several times it looks like declarations and the docstring always have the form [ declarations* ] followed by an optional docstring. 2014-11-16T16:46:33Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T16:47:52Z agumonkey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T16:48:09Z loke__: He's right 2014-11-16T16:49:38Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-11-16T16:49:39Z agumonkey joined #lisp 2014-11-16T16:49:44Z loke__: drmeister: You might want to read this: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_dk.htm 2014-11-16T16:49:59Z cy joined #lisp 2014-11-16T16:50:09Z pjb: drmeister: here. 2014-11-16T16:51:15Z pjb: drmeister: and you have to be careful that if there is no further form in the body, a final string would be a result expression rather than a docstring: (defun f (x) (declare (integer x)) "this is not a docstring") 2014-11-16T16:51:57Z rick-monster`: or do all the timing calculations from within lisp. from my echo test figures of ~2.5 +/- 0.5ms I'm hoping this approach will be good enough... 2014-11-16T16:52:15Z pjb: drmeister: (defun e (x) (declare (integer x)) "this is a docstring" (declare (special x)) "this is not a docstring" (declare (this is not a declaration but an error))) 2014-11-16T16:52:45Z nyef: Also (defun g () "this is not a docstring, either") 2014-11-16T16:53:30Z drmeister: pjb, loke__: I'm reading my code that extracts declarations, docstrings and body from a raw body (everything that follows a lambda list) and it does what you say. It will process ( (declare xxx) "docstring" (declare yyy) "form result") properly. 2014-11-16T16:53:49Z rick-monster`: I'm just worried an sbcl garbage collection cycle would ruin realtime performance (like 30ms or something) 2014-11-16T16:54:05Z drmeister: So I think I'm ok. 2014-11-16T16:54:13Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T16:54:19Z drmeister: nyef: I see your point. 2014-11-16T16:54:55Z drmeister: (defun foo () "this is a docstring" "this is a form result") 2014-11-16T16:55:17Z drmeister: (defun foo () (declare ...) "this is a docstring" "this is a form result") 2014-11-16T16:55:32Z drmeister: (defun foo () "this is a docstring" (declare ...) "this is a form result") 2014-11-16T16:55:37Z drmeister: These are all valid correct? 2014-11-16T16:55:45Z ofosos quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-11-16T16:56:03Z nyef: Correct. 2014-11-16T16:56:34Z drmeister: And finally: (defun foo () (declare ...) "this is a docstring" (declare ...) "this is a result") 2014-11-16T16:56:55Z drmeister: And: (defun foo () (declare ...) "this is a docstring" (declare ...) "this is undefined" "this is a result") 2014-11-16T16:57:07Z drmeister: The last one I think falls under "undefined behavior". 2014-11-16T16:57:09Z nyef: rick-monster`: Depending on what you're trying to do, it may be feasible to write code that doesn't cons at all, which in turn will prevent a GC from triggering. 2014-11-16T16:58:32Z drmeister: In Clasp, in the last case, the "this is undefined" will be treated as a form and disappear into the aether. 2014-11-16T16:58:34Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T16:58:53Z drmeister: Ok - I think I'm doing the right things. Thanks folks. 2014-11-16T16:59:33Z drmeister: And everything is compiling - that's a good thing. 2014-11-16T17:04:48Z LiamH quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T17:05:07Z s00pcan_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T17:06:27Z loke__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T17:09:17Z tesuji quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T17:14:46Z rick-monster`: guess I'll just plough ahead and see if timing turns out to be a problem.... 2014-11-16T17:15:44Z jlarocco quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-11-16T17:16:25Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:22:40Z Arab_Aspie joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:23:30Z Arab_Aspie left #lisp 2014-11-16T17:23:49Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:27:29Z psy_ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:29:18Z ndrei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T17:32:29Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:33:11Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T17:33:22Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:33:42Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T17:34:43Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:36:38Z fantazo joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:38:46Z dmiles: i wonder if cmucl can be easily embeded ina C app 2014-11-16T17:38:58Z nyef: dmiles: No, it can't. 2014-11-16T17:39:16Z dmiles: oops i meant sbcl 2014-11-16T17:39:20Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:39:24Z nyef: Same answer, really. 2014-11-16T17:39:34Z nyef: It's easier to embed a C app in SBCL. 2014-11-16T17:39:57Z dmiles: i guess i can do that instead.. and pretend it was the C app that did it 2014-11-16T17:40:44Z nyef: Mmm. In that case, express the C app as a shared library and just bind it through your FFI of choice. 2014-11-16T17:43:36Z xrash joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:49:20Z ivan4th quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T17:49:23Z dmiles: well my C app is the swi-prolog interpreter.. since PAIP is jsut not fast enough :) and not only that PAIP does do everyting the swi-prolog libs give me 2014-11-16T17:49:36Z dmiles: does/doesnt 2014-11-16T17:50:15Z dmiles: though.. darn me.. i am just trying to find an excuse to create infrastructure and not programs 2014-11-16T17:51:48Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:52:46Z jlarocco joined #lisp 2014-11-16T17:54:01Z nyef: ... You checked out the work of the colossal Christophe Rhodes when it comes to prolog interpreters in SBCL, right? 2014-11-16T17:56:37Z dmiles: googling now 2014-11-16T17:58:50Z dmiles: any google keyword suggestions welcome 2014-11-16T17:59:06Z jlarocco quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-11-16T17:59:55Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-16T18:00:11Z nyef: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=christophe+rhodes+prolog finds a few likely-looking hits. 2014-11-16T18:00:42Z shka joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:00:49Z shka: hello #lisp! 2014-11-16T18:01:39Z shka: is there any proper, built in, standard way to reduce n-dimensional arrays (where n > 1)? 2014-11-16T18:02:38Z dmiles: i do see he did paiprolog .. i guess i'll report my iso-prolog reader 2014-11-16T18:03:03Z Grue`: shka: row-major-aref? 2014-11-16T18:03:17Z shka: Grue`: maybe, let me check 2014-11-16T18:03:27Z Grue`: not sure what you mean by reduce 2014-11-16T18:03:45Z shka: Grue`: reduce as function reduce 2014-11-16T18:05:36Z Grue`: then run reduce on (make-array (array-total-size array) :displaced-to array) 2014-11-16T18:06:24Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, etc.) 2014-11-16T18:06:39Z shka: can you please, try to explain what actually :displaced-to does? 2014-11-16T18:07:13Z shka: from my understanding it creates array that does not store data, but pointers to other array 2014-11-16T18:07:23Z Grue`: displaced array is an array that doesn't hold data itself, but uses another array as the source of data 2014-11-16T18:07:49Z Grue`: but when the source is multi-dimensional array, it's accessed in row-major order 2014-11-16T18:07:54Z shka: ah, so my impression was correct? 2014-11-16T18:07:59Z shka: that's something new 2014-11-16T18:08:13Z shka: thanks Grue` 2014-11-16T18:08:50Z sdemarre joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:08:59Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:10:40Z ivan4th quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T18:11:12Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:14:39Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:17:40Z sdemarre quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-16T18:21:00Z ivan4th quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T18:21:48Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:28:04Z ivan4th quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T18:28:26Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:28:41Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:29:30Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-16T18:34:10Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:37:44Z ivan4th quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T18:37:57Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:38:10Z dagnachew joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:38:51Z The_Woodsman joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:40:07Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-11-16T18:41:45Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:41:52Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-16T18:44:49Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T18:46:39Z xrash joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:48:16Z drewc quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-16T18:50:58Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-16T18:52:46Z drewc joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:53:33Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T18:54:16Z cy is now known as cyan 2014-11-16T18:54:38Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-11-16T18:54:55Z xrash joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:55:32Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:58:37Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:58:37Z Mon_Ouie quit (Changing host) 2014-11-16T18:58:37Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2014-11-16T18:59:22Z Ptidel joined #lisp 2014-11-16T19:02:25Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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I like the looks of it a lot better than commonqt or gtk-cffi 2014-11-16T19:32:55Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-11-16T19:32:58Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-11-16T19:33:30Z nyef: Mere outdatedness does not make using McCLIM a bad idea. There are other reasons. d-: 2014-11-16T19:33:32Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-16T19:34:16Z zyaku: what sort of other reasons? 2014-11-16T19:35:42Z The_Woodsman quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-16T19:36:07Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-16T19:38:40Z nyef: The license, the bugs, the documentation... 2014-11-16T19:41:08Z bjorkintosh: the bugs won't kill you. they're protein! 2014-11-16T19:41:10Z nyef: Honestly, though, give it a try and see what you think. 2014-11-16T19:41:14Z bjorkintosh: chomp away. 2014-11-16T19:41:29Z pjb: zyaku: are you idiot or what? The look of user interfaces is a matter of fashion, driven by Apple Corportation (which is not in the computer business, but in the luxury item business). 2014-11-16T19:42:08Z nyef: Oh, please. As though Apple can maintain any conceptual integrity now that it doesn't have Steve Jobs. 2014-11-16T19:42:14Z pjb: So if you want fashion, go buy a new MacOSX system every year. 2014-11-16T19:42:57Z nyef: "Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable we have to change it every six months." 2014-11-16T19:43:41Z zyaku: CCL *does* have pretty good cocoa bindings 2014-11-16T19:43:54Z pjb: zyaku: that said, IMO, a good alternative to McCLIM, if you don't want to use and help maintain it, would be to use Garnet. But you'll say it's even more "outdated" whatever that means. 2014-11-16T19:45:08Z radioninja joined #lisp 2014-11-16T19:45:34Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T19:46:16Z pjb: Now, I could also understand that as a professional programmer, you don't get to impose the user interface style, and if your customers ask for fashion then you shall provide fashion. 2014-11-16T19:46:20Z zygentoma|2 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T19:46:27Z zyaku: pjb: I tend to distrust most libraries that are more than a few years old. If you promise that Garnet still works fine, I have no qualms with trying it. 2014-11-16T19:46:52Z pjb: zyaku: perhaps you should avoid Common Lisp then. 2014-11-16T19:47:06Z pjb: Try swift. 2014-11-16T19:47:29Z zyaku: last I checked, swift was slower than python on the reference interpreter 2014-11-16T19:47:34Z pjb: http://www.swifttoolbox.io 2014-11-16T19:47:46Z pjb: But it has libraries that are less than one year old. 2014-11-16T19:48:03Z lommm joined #lisp 2014-11-16T19:48:20Z zyaku: fair point 2014-11-16T19:49:03Z nyef: zyaku: I tend to distrust most libraries, period. Something about 90% of everything being crap. 2014-11-16T19:49:04Z pjb: Also, be prepared to throw all your code next year, when the fashion will be to yet another Apple invented programming language (swift is not their first invented programming language that is not used anymore), and when those swift libraries will be more than one year old. 2014-11-16T19:50:00Z pjb: But again, if you are targetting developing an app like Yo! and retire next year, go ahead. (I'm just unable to come up with an idea such as Yo!). 2014-11-16T19:50:50Z nyef: (Oh, to be able to retire THIS year!) 2014-11-16T19:51:22Z pjb: Yes. Try Homer's solution: stick a crayola up your nose, and invent the next Yo! app. 2014-11-16T19:52:10Z shka: (sarcastic overload) 2014-11-16T19:52:13Z Shinmera: There sure is a lot of animosity in here. 2014-11-16T19:52:24Z Shinmera opens the window 2014-11-16T19:52:43Z zyaku: A lack of mature cross-platform App-development options is truly the greatest shortcoming of Common Lisp. 2014-11-16T19:52:44Z pjb: I would have the same problem with an IQ of 80. 2014-11-16T19:53:01Z Shinmera: CommonQt is quite mature imo. 2014-11-16T19:53:15Z pjb: You need to grok the average to be able to produce a money making product. 2014-11-16T19:53:53Z pjb: zyaku: ok. But do you have the resources to develop such a cross-platform app development system for CL? 2014-11-16T19:54:13Z pjb: I hear VC funds are easy to get nowadays. 2014-11-16T19:54:50Z nyef: You can't make a mature ANYTHING in a short period of time, by definition. 2014-11-16T19:54:59Z shka: i don't think that common lisp would work for gui apps any better than more main stream options to be honest 2014-11-16T19:55:06Z zyaku: pjb: That's half the battle. The other half is usually in having a catchy name. 2014-11-16T19:55:09Z pjb: and time is money, hence the need of money. 2014-11-16T19:55:37Z pjb: You can hire PR consulting to get a catchy name. Again, with money. 2014-11-16T19:55:53Z pjb: eg. Steve Jobs spend $100,000 to get the NeXT Computer name. 2014-11-16T19:55:55Z pjb: and logo. 2014-11-16T19:57:38Z shka: let's note that it didn't save next on the long run ;-) 2014-11-16T19:58:17Z pjb: How can you say that? Next bought back Apple for a negative price, and went on developing MacOSX iOS iPhones, iPads and now iWatches! 2014-11-16T19:58:28Z pjb: All that is pure NeXT products! 2014-11-16T19:59:46Z pjb: Good job Gil Amelio! Taking a profitable company, and making it negative value so fast… 2014-11-16T20:00:35Z pjb: Also, it's a big success for C++ (they tried to write Taligent in C++). 2014-11-16T20:02:04Z pjb: (By the way, same thing with current Yahoo! CEO, Marissa Mayer. Started with a working company, prevented people to telecommute and now Yahoo! is negative valued. Good job Marissa). 2014-11-16T20:02:24Z shka: pjb: let's talk about elop in nokia 2014-11-16T20:02:41Z pjb: Well, here we know he was a Microsoft taupe. 2014-11-16T20:03:24Z pjb: Marissa must be a Google taupe, but for Amelio, I fail to see the interest of IBM (well, they probably didn't count on Steve Job to buy by Apple :-) ) 2014-11-16T20:04:14Z bjorkintosh: pjb, yahoo deserves its. have you used their products lately? 2014-11-16T20:04:16Z bjorkintosh: do you like it? 2014-11-16T20:04:19Z pjb: The lesson: do not hire your CEO from competing companies. :-) Microsoft is not dumb, they took their new CEO from internal promotion. 2014-11-16T20:04:42Z pjb: bjorkintosh: well, I lost interest for trading in 2002, so no, I've not used yahoo! much recently. 2014-11-16T20:05:03Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:05:03Z normanrichards quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T20:05:06Z bjorkintosh: that's where i send all things i have to 'sign up' for. 2014-11-16T20:05:11Z bjorkintosh: it's already full of spam anyway. 2014-11-16T20:06:27Z nyef: ... Microsoft, founded by Bill Gates. Apple, founded by Steve Jobs. Amazon, founded by Jeff Bezos... Clearly, to start a large company, your last name must end in #\s. 2014-11-16T20:06:27Z pjb: Perhaps eventually google will buy back yahoo finance? 2014-11-16T20:06:35Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:06:46Z pjb is now known as pjbs 2014-11-16T20:06:55Z pjbs: :-) 2014-11-16T20:06:58Z pjbs is now known as pjb 2014-11-16T20:07:01Z bjorkintosh: nyef, 'co-founded' 2014-11-16T20:07:11Z bjorkintosh: in all cases. 2014-11-16T20:07:48Z zyaku: but no one thinks of the *other* cofounders for those companies 2014-11-16T20:07:50Z nyef: (Any attacks on this "strong" hypothesis will lead to affirming the corresponding "weak" hypothesis, which is in terms of "chances".) 2014-11-16T20:08:10Z bjorkintosh: uhuh. 2014-11-16T20:08:11Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:08:12Z nyef: zyaku: Paul Allen, Steve Wozniak, and there was another founder for Amazon? 2014-11-16T20:08:43Z bjorkintosh: Mr Amazon. 2014-11-16T20:08:45Z bjorkintosh: yes. 2014-11-16T20:08:50Z bjorkintosh: Bezos and Mr. Amazon. 2014-11-16T20:08:58Z bjorkintosh: little known and publicity shy. 2014-11-16T20:09:26Z nyef: (Maybe this is like trying to remember who the other guys on the first moon landing mission were besides Collins. 2014-11-16T20:09:27Z nyef: ) 2014-11-16T20:09:51Z bjorkintosh: hahaha 2014-11-16T20:11:23Z bjorkintosh: fine. no co-founder for amazon. 2014-11-16T20:12:46Z nyef: (The other two on the moon landing mission were "Stretch Armstrong" and "Buzz Lightyear", right?) 2014-11-16T20:12:59Z bjorkintosh: they were on a sound stage. 2014-11-16T20:13:03Z bjorkintosh: sure. them. 2014-11-16T20:13:08Z nyef: (Feel free to substitute "Lance Armstrong" for "Stretch Armstrong".) 2014-11-16T20:13:14Z bjorkintosh: collins left without them. 2014-11-16T20:13:24Z bjorkintosh: so they had to shoot their footage on earth. 2014-11-16T20:13:50Z bjorkintosh: and when collins planted the flag. he yelled "First Post! lol!!" 2014-11-16T20:15:05Z nys joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:16:09Z ggole quit 2014-11-16T20:17:07Z nyef: So, Phil Collins, Lance Armstrong, and Buzz Lightyear? 2014-11-16T20:18:06Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:18:12Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-16T20:21:07Z vowyer_ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:23:15Z rtra joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:24:31Z JokesOnYou77 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-16T20:25:57Z bjorkintosh: the usual suspects. 2014-11-16T20:27:07Z vowyer_ is now known as vowyer 2014-11-16T20:31:00Z nyef: ... With or without Keyser Soze? 2014-11-16T20:31:16Z shka: heh 2014-11-16T20:31:19Z shka: offtopi 2014-11-16T20:31:22Z shka: c 2014-11-16T20:31:36Z drmeister: Here's a more complex AST generated using Cleavir in Clasp. This works now that I've replaced all LAMBDA-BLOCK forms with LAMBDA forms. The code: 2014-11-16T20:31:40Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ZOtDQUsX 2014-11-16T20:31:55Z drmeister: The AST: http://imgur.com/lgFkXi1 2014-11-16T20:32:29Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:33:15Z rick-monster` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T20:33:32Z nyef: Nice, though I have to wonder about the utility of an explicit PROGN node. 2014-11-16T20:33:51Z nyef: How close are you to generating runnable code through this? 2014-11-16T20:34:19Z drmeister: This is the AST and not yet the HIR. It should reflect the code structure. 2014-11-16T20:34:59Z drmeister: I don't know about runnable code yet. I am setting up to feed the entire Clasp(ECL) Common Lisp source code through Cleavir and see if it chokes on anything. 2014-11-16T20:35:06Z nyef: Okay, fair enough. 2014-11-16T20:35:10Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-11-16T20:36:17Z JokesOnYou77 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:36:18Z ivan4th quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T20:37:31Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:38:33Z drmeister: For example: Cleavir fails to generate an AST for this: 2014-11-16T20:38:37Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/A9L4rK1e 2014-11-16T20:39:34Z alexey joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:39:38Z drmeister: But I don't know if it's because I'm feeding it complex forms out of context of the rest of the code. 2014-11-16T20:40:55Z drmeister: This is the main code generator function of Clasp's current compiler. 2014-11-16T20:42:19Z drmeister: I've got to figure out how to communicate these issues to beach. Maybe I'll package this up within my fork of SICL. Then he can clone my fork and test things out on his machine. 2014-11-16T20:43:08Z bjorkintosh: directed by keyser soze: ground control. 2014-11-16T20:44:02Z vowyer quit (Read error: Connection timed out) 2014-11-16T20:44:38Z vowyer joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:48:36Z vowyer_ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:49:05Z vowyer quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-16T20:51:04Z vowyer joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:51:11Z chu joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:51:55Z nys quit (Quit: quit) 2014-11-16T20:52:55Z vowyer_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-16T20:53:11Z vowyer is now known as vowyer_ 2014-11-16T20:53:20Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T20:53:25Z vowyer_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-16T20:53:50Z vowyer_ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:53:54Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-16T20:55:05Z stephenmac7 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:55:14Z edgar-rft quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T20:55:26Z pgomes joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:55:33Z madmalik quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-11-16T20:55:35Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:56:22Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:57:58Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:58:08Z vowyer joined #lisp 2014-11-16T20:58:41Z vowyer_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-16T21:00:03Z _JokerDoom joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:00:53Z pnpuff quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-11-16T21:01:24Z __JokerDoom joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:02:30Z CrazyWoods quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-11-16T21:03:16Z JokerDoom quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-16T21:05:17Z _JokerDoom quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-16T21:07:42Z ivan4th quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T21:07:47Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-16T21:08:20Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:09:10Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-11-16T21:14:13Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:19:33Z ivan4th quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-16T21:20:24Z mrSpec quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-11-16T21:21:26Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:22:03Z shka quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-11-16T21:22:35Z pgomes quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-16T21:28:14Z csziacobus joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:29:38Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:29:59Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:30:24Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:30:24Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-11-16T21:30:24Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:34:46Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-16T21:34:56Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:38:20Z normanrichards quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T21:38:48Z vowyer quit (Quit: C-x C-c) 2014-11-16T21:44:38Z pnpuff quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-11-16T21:45:21Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:46:28Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-16T21:48:08Z wooden quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T21:48:39Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:48:39Z normanrichards quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T21:48:40Z wooden joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:53:27Z sol__ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T21:54:47Z sol__: what's the use of the :type key when using defclass? how do i access it? 2014-11-16T21:56:09Z malice joined #lisp 2014-11-16T22:02:01Z alexey quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T22:03:11Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T22:08:27Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2014-11-16T22:15:04Z malice quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T22:16:19Z izirku joined #lisp 2014-11-16T22:18:40Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T22:19:31Z bb010g joined #lisp 2014-11-16T22:21:12Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T22:25:42Z sol__ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-16T22:26:37Z zeebrah quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-16T22:30:49Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-11-16T22:31:11Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-11-16T22:32:22Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-16T22:34:22Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-11-16T22:35:38Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-11-16T22:35:42Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-16T22:45:32Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-11-16T22:45:39Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-16T22:46:59Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T22:47:15Z bb010g quit 2014-11-16T22:48:27Z ivan4th quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-16T22:49:17Z fantazo joined #lisp 2014-11-16T22:58:40Z __JokerDoom quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-16T22:59:54Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-11-16T23:00:08Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-16T23:00:26Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-11-16T23:00:57Z stephenmac7 left #lisp 2014-11-16T23:02:03Z Lowl3v3l quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-16T23:02:10Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-16T23:04:36Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-11-16T23:07:28Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T23:12:29Z bb010g joined #lisp 2014-11-16T23:13:30Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2014-11-16T23:14:14Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2014-11-16T23:16:24Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T23:16:58Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-16T23:19:33Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-11-16T23:21:44Z fourier joined #lisp 2014-11-16T23:21:46Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-16T23:22:07Z attila_lendvai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-16T23:22:59Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-11-16T23:22:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-11-16T23:22:59Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-11-16T23:25:25Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2014-11-16T23:26:15Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-11-16T23:28:41Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-16T23:30:44Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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