2014-11-04T00:02:06Z stassats joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:02:54Z pavelpenev quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-04T00:04:06Z ltbarcly quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T00:04:22Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T00:05:15Z pavelpenev joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:05:16Z dagnachew joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:05:23Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg) 2014-11-04T00:05:35Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T00:08:08Z ack006 quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1) 2014-11-04T00:08:26Z ack006 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:09:11Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:09:54Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T00:11:42Z gniourf joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:15:32Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:16:40Z nand1` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:17:37Z nand1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T00:23:21Z Longlius joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:24:07Z Aranshada|W joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:24:33Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:24:43Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-11-04T00:26:06Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T00:26:20Z dagnachew joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:28:10Z klltkr_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:29:00Z klltkr_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-04T00:29:20Z klltkr_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:29:39Z ack006 quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1) 2014-11-04T00:30:47Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T00:32:53Z Nizumzen joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:35:39Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T00:38:15Z Nizumzen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T00:38:48Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:39:09Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T00:39:44Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:41:35Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:44:10Z rtra joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:44:17Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T00:46:17Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T00:51:36Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T00:53:19Z Nizumzen joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:54:40Z nand1` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T00:54:56Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T00:57:06Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-11-04T01:02:39Z kuimacro joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:02:53Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T01:05:56Z akkad ponders why delivery is so fragile on lw 2014-11-04T01:06:46Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T01:08:38Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:13:03Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T01:14:13Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:18:29Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:21:26Z wooden joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:25:15Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-11-04T01:27:37Z Xach hadn't noticed it was particularly fragile 2014-11-04T01:27:44Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T01:29:49Z meiji11 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:31:46Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:32:06Z stassats quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-11-04T01:32:22Z kenanb joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:35:48Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:37:14Z juiko joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:40:13Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:40:36Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T01:43:14Z kuimacro quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) 2014-11-04T01:44:34Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T01:46:16Z effy_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T01:49:56Z effy joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:51:37Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-11-04T01:53:13Z akkad: xach: building https://gist.github.com/872b580d13bc6150adaf with https://gist.github.com/a3c132639e14020c07cf but getting https://gist.github.com/118e7f097bd5c170a9a6 as error. 2014-11-04T01:55:20Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-11-04T01:57:01Z akkad: ahh clack error, using 0 vs 5 helps with identifying the issue 2014-11-04T01:57:19Z akkad: Error: PPRINT-FILL called: Use :KEEP-PRETTY-PRINTER to keep the pretty-printer. args ((# #P"MIN-BOEHM:IMAGE.O.NEWEST" but it gives me --> #P"MIN-BOEHM:Users;MEISTER;Development;CLASP;SRC;MAIN;IMAGE.O.NEWEST" 2014-11-04T03:36:53Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T03:36:59Z drmeister: It's something to do with the (PATHNAME-DIRECTORY cmp::part-bitcode-pathname) --> nil rather than (:ABSOLUTE) 2014-11-04T03:38:46Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T03:38:51Z karswell joined #lisp 2014-11-04T03:39:02Z Zhivago: Do you have things like ** to ask for an exciting deep search? 2014-11-04T03:39:13Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-11-04T03:40:41Z eigenlicht quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T03:41:42Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T03:43:29Z eigenlicht joined #lisp 2014-11-04T03:43:37Z drmeister: I think I got it. I'm putting together a more coherent example. 2014-11-04T03:45:08Z boogie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T03:46:45Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T03:48:07Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-04T03:48:07Z ndrei_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T03:51:46Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T03:52:39Z mncoder quit (Quit: mncoder) 2014-11-04T03:53:48Z drmeister: Ah - never mind. I needed to (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute) :name "image" :type "bundle") if I want image.bundle to always be in the top directory when I merge it with a host name. If the directory component is nil it was getting filled in by *default-pathname-defaults*. 2014-11-04T03:56:29Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T03:58:09Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2014-11-04T03:59:45Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:04:17Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T04:04:34Z _zxq9_ is now known as zxq9 2014-11-04T04:04:41Z zxq9 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-11-04T04:04:49Z zxq9 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:06:04Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-11-04T04:09:54Z eigenlicht quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T04:11:23Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:12:55Z eigenlicht joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:14:24Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T04:14:30Z cmack` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:16:02Z jusss quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T04:17:58Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T04:19:00Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:20:00Z pspace joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:23:24Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T04:29:02Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T04:29:22Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:30:12Z specbot joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:30:16Z rtra quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2014-11-04T04:30:47Z rtra joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:30:57Z supermanBlack joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:31:02Z supermanBlack is now known as shortCircuit__ 2014-11-04T04:32:04Z shortCircuit__ is now known as supermanPlasticP 2014-11-04T04:32:19Z supermanPlasticP is now known as supermanYellow 2014-11-04T04:34:50Z rtra quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-04T04:35:24Z rtra joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:35:29Z rtra quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T04:42:25Z chu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:44:36Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:46:13Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:47:18Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:47:47Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight) 2014-11-04T04:48:14Z resttime: is there a a simple way to check if something was redefined? 2014-11-04T04:48:32Z Zhivago: You could compare it against the previous value. 2014-11-04T04:48:32Z resttime: for example I have a defparameter *vert-shader* 2014-11-04T04:49:00Z resttime: during compile time 2014-11-04T04:49:02Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T04:49:03Z resttime: i mean runtime 2014-11-04T04:49:39Z Niac joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:49:59Z resttime: C-M-x 2014-11-04T04:51:02Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T04:51:08Z resttime: i'd like to be able to check if I changed my vertex shader while my program is running 2014-11-04T04:51:26Z resttime: so that it can automatically compile a new opengl program 2014-11-04T04:51:31Z resttime: for the next frame 2014-11-04T04:52:17Z resttime: since I don't think compiling a new opengl shader-program every frame is a good idea 2014-11-04T04:52:35Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T04:54:08Z resttime: well i thought of some work arounds to the problem 2014-11-04T04:54:27Z resttime: just wondering if such a thing was supported in anyway 2014-11-04T04:55:49Z resttime: a redefinition hook, as i think it might be called 2014-11-04T04:56:05Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-11-04T04:57:31Z resttime: Zhivago, is it trivial to compare large strings to each other? 2014-11-04T04:58:26Z resttime: as in computation time 2014-11-04T05:01:25Z resttime: acutally shouldn't matter i guess 2014-11-04T05:01:33Z resttime: seems comparing with previous value is only way 2014-11-04T05:01:54Z Zhivago: It depends on if they're the same string or not. 2014-11-04T05:03:12Z resttime: lots of small modifications from original to new so probably would be computationally costly with large amounts of GLSL code 2014-11-04T05:03:32Z White_Flame: instead of throwing a full source code string at *vert-shader*, you should register your shader with a name, then set *vert-shader* to the name of that registered code 2014-11-04T05:03:48Z White_Flame: faster comparisons, faster cached value lookups 2014-11-04T05:04:07Z malbertife joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:06:15Z resttime: White_Flame, is that because the compiler optimizes for that? 2014-11-04T05:06:46Z White_Flame: no, it's because it's a better architecture for managing change detection and knowing when to recompile your shader sources 2014-11-04T05:07:17Z White_Flame: notice this is how OpenGL itself has been architected since getting past 1.x 2014-11-04T05:07:31Z White_Flame: register stuff, then refer to it 2014-11-04T05:09:46Z resttime: sorry, but can you give an example? 2014-11-04T05:10:00Z resttime: as in registering shader with a name 2014-11-04T05:10:07Z White_Flame: I mean write that 2014-11-04T05:10:19Z White_Flame: I'm not referring to a feature of OpenGL or CL 2014-11-04T05:10:39Z White_Flame: have a hashtable with a symbol mapping to whatever compiled structures you need to track 2014-11-04T05:10:59Z White_Flame: store a symbol in *vert-shader* 2014-11-04T05:11:17Z resttime: i can see how this would help with organizing very, what about redefining though? 2014-11-04T05:11:38Z White_Flame: whenever you register a new version of your shader code, it would compile its artifacts and store them in the hashtable 2014-11-04T05:12:02Z White_Flame: it separates that concern from the every-frame checking of the *vert-shader* variable 2014-11-04T05:13:27Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:13:51Z resttime: so a technically a kind of source revision hashtable? 2014-11-04T05:14:00Z leo2007 quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 25.0.50.3) 2014-11-04T05:14:03Z White_Flame: it's a cache of named, compiled, shader resources 2014-11-04T05:14:31Z White_Flame: I wouldn't bother keeping older revisions around 2014-11-04T05:14:55Z White_Flame: but you basically want to either swap between well-known shaders, or maintain the same shader across frames, or both 2014-11-04T05:14:59Z White_Flame: and make that fast 2014-11-04T05:18:00Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:18:24Z resttime: hmmm, so i have to write some function (recompile *vert-shader* source) 2014-11-04T05:18:41Z resttime: that modifies the compiled thing in the hashtable 2014-11-04T05:19:05Z resttime: and that is what i use to run everytime i wish to change shader source code 2014-11-04T05:19:28Z resttime: err, not really modifies, but replaces with new 2014-11-04T05:20:18Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:20:31Z resttime: alright thanks 2014-11-04T05:20:35Z beach joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:20:40Z tab1293 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:20:41Z White_Flame: (register-shader 'cool "...shader code...") 2014-11-04T05:20:47Z White_Flame: (setf *vert-shader* 'cool) 2014-11-04T05:21:04Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2014-11-04T05:21:11Z White_Flame: re 2014-11-04T05:21:18Z ack006: Good morning :-) 2014-11-04T05:21:23Z resttime: g'mornin 2014-11-04T05:21:38Z pillton: Good morning beach. 2014-11-04T05:21:52Z misv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:21:53Z tab1293: how would one go about generating the next permutation given a previous one. So instead of generating a list of all permutations, I could generate each one by one given the previous 2014-11-04T05:22:13Z pillton: tab1293: Using closures. 2014-11-04T05:22:52Z Grue` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:22:57Z tab1293: pillton can you elaborate a little bit more on that? 2014-11-04T05:22:58Z pillton: ... oh, given the previous one. Sorry. 2014-11-04T05:23:18Z Zhivago: tab: That assumes that you have an algorithm to iterate through all permutations. 2014-11-04T05:23:27Z misv joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:23:32Z Zhivago: tab: But if you have such an algorithm, you should not be asking such a question ... 2014-11-04T05:23:40Z tab1293: Zhivago: yes I guess that is what I am looking for 2014-11-04T05:24:00Z Zhivago: http://www.quickperm.org/ may be inspirational. 2014-11-04T05:25:00Z tab1293: i know python's itertools has a permutation generator so its definitely possible 2014-11-04T05:25:30Z eigenlicht quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:27:00Z eigenlicht joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:30:08Z Sgeo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T05:30:22Z Sgeo joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:31:06Z Grue` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:33:21Z boogie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T05:34:14Z malbertife_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:34:17Z rtra joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:37:17Z eigenlicht quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:37:44Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:38:29Z eigenlicht joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:40:14Z rtra quit (Quit: "") 2014-11-04T05:40:42Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:40:49Z rtra joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:41:34Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:46:05Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:46:10Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:46:33Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:48:15Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:48:35Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:52:35Z tab1293 quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-11-04T05:52:52Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:53:05Z ndrei_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T05:54:17Z juiko quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:54:34Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:55:15Z beach: I am searching the literature for an algorithm for (partial) redundancy elimination that will eliminate (partially) redundant conditional branches. It appears there is only one paper about it, but it works on very low-level code. 2014-11-04T05:56:07Z beach: I think there is some research to be done here. For Common Lisp, some interesting optimizations can be obtained with a good algorithm. 2014-11-04T05:57:05Z Bike: https://twitter.com/FioraAeterna/status/529168825657622528 i wonder how widely such algorithms would be used, even 2014-11-04T05:57:29Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T05:58:06Z beach: Nice! 2014-11-04T05:59:29Z beach: The use case I am thinking of is destructuring as in (let ((x (car w)) (y (cdr w))) ...) 2014-11-04T05:59:39Z wizzo joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:00:18Z psy_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:00:22Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:01:12Z beach: If CAR and CDR are implemented like this (defun car (x) (cond ((consp x) (cons-car x)) ((null x) nil) (t (error ...)))) 2014-11-04T06:01:48Z beach: ... then there will be two tests for CONSP. 2014-11-04T06:03:30Z White_Flame: that seems to be a type propagation problem to me 2014-11-04T06:03:41Z beach: In the example above, the second conditional branch is completely redundant, but it ought to be possible to deal with partial redundancy as well. 2014-11-04T06:03:47Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T06:04:01Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-11-04T06:04:13Z tesuji joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:04:47Z beach: White_Flame: That could be. 2014-11-04T06:05:12Z beach: Perhaps every conditional branch can be viewed as discrimination of type? 2014-11-04T06:06:56Z Kanae joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:06:58Z ofosos joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:06:59Z jusss quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T06:07:23Z beach: Anyway, the basic idea is to use code replication, so that the result of the first test is maintained in the program counter when the second test is reached, and the second test can then be eliminated. 2014-11-04T06:07:50Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:10:58Z beach: I am guessing that the techniques used in partial redundancy elimination (PRE) can be used to detect the (partially) redundant test. 2014-11-04T06:11:47Z whartung_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:12:19Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T06:14:42Z theBlack1ragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:14:49Z beach: A similar case would be a test for fixnum, as in (let ((x (+ w a)) (y (+ w b))) ...) 2014-11-04T06:16:32Z eigenlicht quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T06:16:33Z beach: I know for the first example, SBCL does not have to optimize because of the way NIL is represented, but what does SBCL do for the second case? 2014-11-04T06:18:37Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:18:55Z theBlackDragon quit (*.net *.split) 2014-11-04T06:18:55Z whartung quit (*.net *.split) 2014-11-04T06:18:55Z surrounder quit (*.net *.split) 2014-11-04T06:18:55Z cy quit (*.net *.split) 2014-11-04T06:18:55Z keen_________ quit (*.net *.split) 2014-11-04T06:18:55Z spacebat quit (*.net *.split) 2014-11-04T06:18:55Z j_king quit (*.net *.split) 2014-11-04T06:18:56Z DrCode quit (*.net *.split) 2014-11-04T06:18:56Z codeburg quit (*.net *.split) 2014-11-04T06:18:56Z Adlai quit (*.net *.split) 2014-11-04T06:18:56Z whartung_ is now known as whartung 2014-11-04T06:18:56Z theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon 2014-11-04T06:20:34Z j_king joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:21:12Z beach: Oh, SBCL calls GENERIC-+ 2014-11-04T06:22:05Z beach: I did: (defun ff (x a) (declare (type integer x a) (optimize (speed 3))) (values (+ x a) (- x a))) 2014-11-04T06:23:47Z xyjprc quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T06:25:47Z surrounder joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:26:06Z spacebat joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:26:44Z cy joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:27:06Z keen_________ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:28:45Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-11-04T06:28:49Z meiji11 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T06:29:00Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime) 2014-11-04T06:30:33Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:35:02Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:39:55Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T06:41:04Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:46:42Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:49:53Z ofosos quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T06:50:15Z frkout_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T06:50:30Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:52:23Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-11-04T06:52:39Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-11-04T06:52:53Z theos joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:53:05Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-11-04T06:59:05Z beach: Time to get to work! 2014-11-04T06:59:12Z beach left #lisp 2014-11-04T07:01:25Z H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language logs:|contact op if muted|yason 0.7.1, SBCL 1.2.5, Drakma 1.3.10 2014-11-04T07:02:10Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:07:30Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T07:07:39Z hitecnologys: H4ns: where can I find change log for new YASON? 2014-11-04T07:09:08Z hitecnologys: H4ns: the one that's in repository seems rather incomplete. 2014-11-04T07:12:02Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:12:02Z Kanae quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-04T07:12:25Z ltbarcly quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-04T07:12:48Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:12:52Z svetlyak40wt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T07:13:13Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:14:00Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T07:16:14Z hitecnologys: H4ns: never mind, it took me a while to get what API you were talking about in last commit messages 2014-11-04T07:19:50Z malbertife_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T07:19:55Z hitecnologys: Forget my last three phrases. I'm speaking nonsense. 2014-11-04T07:20:10Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T07:20:23Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:20:36Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:22:04Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-04T07:22:35Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:24:14Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:28:05Z Blaguvest joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:29:21Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:30:56Z H4ns: if in doubt, look at the commit log 2014-11-04T07:32:16Z stepnem joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:32:19Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T07:32:43Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:34:25Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T07:35:37Z hitecnologys: Yes, that's what I did. The thing that got me confused was why increment minor version number. Then I realized that you've removed pieces of API that I didn't even know were there. 2014-11-04T07:36:07Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:36:38Z zRecursive quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T07:37:16Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:40:36Z chu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:41:49Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T07:41:53Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T07:42:27Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:42:27Z segv- joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:44:15Z stepnem joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:45:31Z madmalik quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-11-04T07:54:35Z Beetny joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:56:42Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:58:36Z H4ns: i forgot those pieces as well - i should have removed them before the first release, as they were incomplete. 2014-11-04T07:59:01Z Cymew joined #lisp 2014-11-04T07:59:45Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:00:06Z hitecnologys: I see. 2014-11-04T08:00:48Z isis_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:01:05Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:01:18Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:03:28Z arenz joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:05:03Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T08:05:53Z mindCrime_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T08:06:15Z mindCrime_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:07:05Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-11-04T08:11:27Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:12:14Z pgomes joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:14:40Z tesuji quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T08:16:06Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:19:21Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-11-04T08:20:36Z nug700 quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-11-04T08:22:05Z chu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:22:12Z przl joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:23:57Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:25:05Z gabriel-artigue joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:28:29Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:28:33Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T08:30:40Z pavelpenev quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T08:39:25Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:41:43Z nand1` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:42:38Z rjmacready_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:43:01Z nand1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T08:44:51Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:44:53Z hiroakip quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T08:46:25Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T08:46:37Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T08:47:04Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:47:07Z joncol joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:47:14Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:50:57Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:51:51Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T08:55:36Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T08:56:10Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:56:33Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:57:57Z Hydan` is now known as Hydan 2014-11-04T08:58:19Z Grue`: aw yeah, I'm getting positive feedback from 4chan, this looks promising 2014-11-04T08:58:24Z madmalik joined #lisp 2014-11-04T08:58:28Z Hydan is now known as Hydan` 2014-11-04T09:00:18Z Grue`: next step: Hacker News! 2014-11-04T09:00:24Z Hydan` is now known as Hydan 2014-11-04T09:00:38Z ack006 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-04T09:08:12Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T09:09:04Z wooden quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T09:13:40Z luis: Xach: I think I'll skip this month's release, unless someone's very interested in the new MLWorks swank backend. 2014-11-04T09:13:45Z zeebrah joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:14:13Z redeemed joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:15:41Z luis: (since that's the only new commit this month) 2014-11-04T09:18:08Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:19:13Z White_Flame quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T09:19:31Z hardenedapple: Hello, I was wondering if it's thought of as bad style to use (setf (symbol-function ...) ...) ? I haven't really seen it in any tutorials, but it makes my function look neat. 2014-11-04T09:19:47Z White_Flame joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:22:44Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T09:23:06Z mal_: hardenedapple: it's ok. there might be more usual ways to achieve what you're doing. 2014-11-04T09:24:24Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:26:10Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:28:02Z mal_: hardenedapple: also note that in the absence of notinline declarations, the compiler could have inlined a previous definition of the function and so some call sites might not see your updated definition 2014-11-04T09:28:36Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-11-04T09:30:49Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T09:30:53Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-11-04T09:30:55Z psy_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:31:21Z nalssee joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:31:28Z hardenedapple: mal_: Ok, thanks. 2014-11-04T09:31:33Z Grue`: hardenedapple: I'd probably avoid it. it has the same disadvantages as overusing global variables 2014-11-04T09:31:53Z stardiviner quit (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/) 2014-11-04T09:31:59Z Grue`: depends on the use case though, but there's a reason why you're not seeing it 2014-11-04T09:32:13Z Niac quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T09:32:56Z LoicLisp joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:35:23Z hardenedapple: Grue`: Ah, I didn't realise it was setting the global symbol, definitely not what I wanted. 2014-11-04T09:35:27Z hardenedapple: Thanks 2014-11-04T09:36:20Z pgomes quit (Changing host) 2014-11-04T09:36:20Z pgomes joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:36:24Z mal_: hardenedapple: what are you trying to do exactly? 2014-11-04T09:36:52Z rjmacready_ quit (Changing host) 2014-11-04T09:36:52Z rjmacready_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:37:00Z madmalik quit (Changing host) 2014-11-04T09:37:00Z madmalik joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:37:10Z redeemed quit (Changing host) 2014-11-04T09:37:10Z redeemed joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:37:42Z jusss quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T09:38:15Z hardenedapple: mal_: I just had a function that used (funcall ...) a lot and thought it was a little ugly, so I wanted to remove them. 2014-11-04T09:39:37Z mal_: just live with the price of having a Lisp2 2014-11-04T09:40:21Z mal_: you could work around it with a symbol-macrolet but that would be overkill 2014-11-04T09:41:46Z hardenedapple: mal_: I was happy with the function, but I just came across symbol-function in a book this morning and thought I'd try it out. 2014-11-04T09:42:15Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T09:42:57Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-11-04T09:43:01Z hardenedapple: though thanks for mentioning symbol-macrolet, I hadn't heard of it before 2014-11-04T09:43:13Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T09:44:56Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:44:57Z rszeno joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:45:16Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:45:36Z Shinmera: hardenedapple: I'm not sure I completely understand what you're trying to do, but can't you use flet/labels? 2014-11-04T09:45:36Z Grue`: hardenedapple: (flet ((fn (&rest args) (apply fn-param args))) (fn 1) (fn 2) (fn 3)) 2014-11-04T09:45:46Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:47:27Z DGASAU` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:47:33Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:48:16Z rjmacready_ quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-11-04T09:48:31Z hardenedapple: Shinmera: I could, but I set the functions based on the input, which would mean two flets -- see here http://paste.lisp.org/display/144267 2014-11-04T09:48:34Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T09:49:37Z Grue`: flet can define 2 functions at once 2014-11-04T09:49:46Z Grue`: like let 2014-11-04T09:50:33Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T09:50:48Z H4ns: hardenedapple: both symbol-function and symbol-macrolet are tools for special purposes and should not be used lightly. 2014-11-04T09:51:19Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:51:31Z Shinmera: hardenedapple: (flet ((read-datum (stream) (funcall read-datum stream)) (equality-check (val datum) (funcall equality-check val datum))) ..) ? 2014-11-04T09:51:34Z Grue`: hardenedapple: this thing needs CLOS honestly 2014-11-04T09:51:48Z Grue`: you have 2 classes of object and you can define methods on them 2014-11-04T09:53:00Z rszeno quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T09:53:59Z DGASAU` is now known as DGASAU 2014-11-04T09:55:11Z hardenedapple: I was just going for code re-use really, as the loop was exactly the same for both classes but with different functions called. 2014-11-04T09:55:46Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-11-04T09:55:55Z Grue`: so, generic functions basically 2014-11-04T09:56:06Z Grue`: except you're inventing your own bike 2014-11-04T09:56:56Z hardenedapple: I think I'd have to pass the functions to call if I were to separate it into two different methods, which I thought was a little ugly. 2014-11-04T09:58:58Z hardenedapple: But it's very likely I'm missing how to do it neatly 2014-11-04T10:00:00Z Grue`: yes, you define methods like equality-check, char-of etc and each instance would know which one to call 2014-11-04T10:00:10Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:00:21Z Grue`: also your style with defmethods inside of flet is pretty weird 2014-11-04T10:01:08Z Grue`: just write a normal defun 2014-11-04T10:01:17Z Grue`: easier to debug too 2014-11-04T10:03:14Z Grue`: while I'm at it: for datum = something then something is redundant, just write for datum = something 2014-11-04T10:03:45Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:03:45Z Grue`: inside LOOP "do (progn (a) (b))" is equivalent to "do (a) (b)" 2014-11-04T10:03:51Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:04:15Z hardenedapple: Thanks! 2014-11-04T10:04:38Z rszeno joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:04:47Z nand1`` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:04:49Z H4ns: i also see little to be gained by folding the two different implementations of the reader algorithm into one. i'd just write two separate functions, one for characters and one for bytes 2014-11-04T10:05:17Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:05:33Z H4ns: if you really really hate that, you can always write a set of generic functions rather than having read-datum/equality-check/... as variables 2014-11-04T10:05:47Z H4ns: and then simply call that. i guess that is what Grue` wanted to suggest as well. 2014-11-04T10:06:10Z nand1` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:07:29Z corni joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:07:53Z easye joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:08:11Z hardenedapple: The reason it's inside an flet, (and probably the reason I didn't think of read-datum etc as generic functions) is mainly from my distaste for creating permanent functions that are only used once, but I can change to match the consensus. 2014-11-04T10:08:19Z hardenedapple: Thanks everyone 2014-11-04T10:08:57Z H4ns: hardenedapple: lose that distaste 2014-11-04T10:09:38Z hardenedapple: Will do 2014-11-04T10:12:20Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:13:00Z cmack`` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:15:50Z cmack` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:16:24Z pspace quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-11-04T10:16:54Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:22:47Z pnpuff___ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:28:52Z leo2007 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T10:29:17Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T10:34:44Z chu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:37:20Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:37:22Z theotherstupidgu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:37:40Z theotherstupidgu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:39:36Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:39:54Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:44:09Z nand1``` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T10:44:53Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:45:00Z nand1`` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:49:14Z pnpuff___ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T10:55:23Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2014-11-04T10:56:21Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T10:56:24Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:00:18Z mrSpec quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-11-04T11:00:37Z DGASAU: If you don't want GCL when running Maxima, just DON'T USE IT! 2014-11-04T11:00:54Z DGASAU: You can use SBCL instead. 2014-11-04T11:01:05Z DGASAU: Build Maxima yourself, if you need it. 2014-11-04T11:01:09Z DGASAU: That's not a rocket science. 2014-11-04T11:01:09Z H4ns: why are you yelling? 2014-11-04T11:01:23Z DGASAU: well, you can use CL from maxima, but the problem is there's a 40% chance the CL will be GCL 2014-11-04T11:01:37Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T11:01:53Z H4ns: right. of course. a discussion dead since several days, let's just revive it by some yelling. 2014-11-04T11:01:54Z H4ns: :D 2014-11-04T11:02:22Z rszeno: maxima can be compiled to use sbcl 2014-11-04T11:02:43Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:02:47Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T11:02:54Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:03:51Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T11:04:04Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T11:06:45Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:07:44Z froggey joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:11:32Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:12:13Z supermanYellow is now known as superSadFace 2014-11-04T11:14:55Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:15:10Z pnpuff: Hi all :) 2014-11-04T11:15:49Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:17:44Z theotherstupidgu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:19:16Z pnpuff quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-11-04T11:19:38Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:19:48Z theotherstupidgu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:21:53Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:25:58Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:27:43Z theotherstupidgu quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:27:47Z Ven quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-04T11:28:23Z theotherstupidgu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:29:40Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:32:31Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:33:38Z sol___ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:33:38Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-11-04T11:34:00Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:35:01Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:38:49Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:39:20Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:40:54Z nand1```` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:41:00Z nand1``` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T11:48:02Z isis_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:48:40Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:49:32Z isis_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:50:48Z kuimacro joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:51:45Z pjb: minion: memo for resttime: you can do that by defining *vert-shader* as a symbol macro instead of a special variable. (define-symbol-macro *vert-shader* (shader 'vert)) (defun (setf shader) (new-value name) (store-somewhere new-value name) (recompute-dependant name) new-value) 2014-11-04T11:51:46Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell resttime when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-11-04T11:53:11Z pjb: minion: memo for resttime: Of course, now (let ((*vert-shader* …)) …) won't work. You can use #+clisp ext:letf instead (or similar) 2014-11-04T11:53:11Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell resttime when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-11-04T11:54:25Z theotherstupidgu quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:55:05Z theotherstupidgu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T11:57:45Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:58:46Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T11:59:22Z pjb: minion: memo for hardenedapple: you could use http://paste.lisp.org/+33BH (let ((f (lambda () 'hi)) (g (lambda () 'lo))) (with-functions (f g) (list (f) (g)))) 2014-11-04T11:59:22Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell hardenedapple when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-11-04T11:59:34Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:00:09Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:00:21Z nand1```` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T12:00:31Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:00:47Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:01:07Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:01:39Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:05:24Z codeburg joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:05:58Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:06:05Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:07:06Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:07:51Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:09:50Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:10:55Z superSadFace quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:11:33Z psy_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:14:02Z mrSpec quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-11-04T12:14:11Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:20:21Z effy_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:20:56Z effy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:21:48Z sword quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T12:21:53Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:22:42Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-11-04T12:23:54Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T12:28:18Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:28:37Z Xach: luis: ok, thanks. 2014-11-04T12:28:59Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:30:19Z eudoxia: i went through this whole month without realizing i hadn't updated Quicklisp 2014-11-04T12:30:58Z Xach: please update as soon as possible. i lose money on every update but make up for it in volume. 2014-11-04T12:31:31Z cmack``` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:33:04Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:34:16Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:42:09Z Guest62111 quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-11-04T12:43:09Z Shinmera: Xach: When's the next one going to be? 2014-11-04T12:43:18Z Shinmera: I need to make some last minute changes to Qtools. 2014-11-04T12:44:58Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T12:45:44Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:49:02Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:50:35Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:51:04Z zeebrah quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:53:39Z jerrr joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:54:39Z manfoo7` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:55:29Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:56:05Z ndrei__ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:57:23Z przl joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:58:35Z wooden joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:58:35Z wooden quit (Changing host) 2014-11-04T12:58:35Z wooden joined #lisp 2014-11-04T12:58:45Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:59:13Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T12:59:36Z TDog quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 32.0.2/20140917194002]) 2014-11-04T13:00:09Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:02:01Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:06:00Z psy_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:10:25Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T13:12:06Z superSadFace joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:12:23Z ndrei__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:13:24Z janmuffino joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:13:25Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:14:27Z superSadFace is now known as shortCircuit__ 2014-11-04T13:15:03Z Subfusc quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2014-11-04T13:16:39Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:16:41Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:18:10Z pranavrc quit 2014-11-04T13:19:13Z nalssee joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:21:00Z isis__ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:21:24Z rjmacready_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:22:41Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:23:46Z billitch joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:24:12Z isis_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:24:52Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:25:39Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:25:47Z gabriel-artigue quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:26:27Z Hache_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:26:43Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T13:27:14Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:27:27Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:28:07Z Longlius joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:28:09Z isis__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:28:53Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:29:13Z thawes quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T13:31:05Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:31:22Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:32:06Z Subfusc joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:34:51Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-11-04T13:36:38Z Adlai .:( shoot, (timestamp- (now) 4.5 :hour) doesn't work... but (timestamp- (now) 9/2 :hour) does! :) 2014-11-04T13:37:39Z Grue`: what library is that? 2014-11-04T13:38:01Z eudoxia: local-time? 2014-11-04T13:38:33Z Adlai: yes 2014-11-04T13:42:18Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-11-04T13:45:03Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T13:45:04Z Grue`: probably by design, as floats can potentially wreck havoc on time calculations i.e. (1.0... hours today) - (1.0... hour) might be yesterday 2014-11-04T13:47:24Z tesuji joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:49:23Z isis_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:49:51Z isis_ is now known as therik 2014-11-04T13:49:52Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:51:00Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:54:29Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T13:54:50Z Hache_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2014-11-04T13:57:49Z Xach: Shinmera: within the next day or two 2014-11-04T13:58:01Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:58:11Z przl joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:58:31Z Shinmera: Alright, that should give me enough time to finalize Qtools, now that I actually get to test it with some real example code. 2014-11-04T13:59:07Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-11-04T13:59:20Z Hache_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:01:15Z hzp joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:03:18Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T14:03:24Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T14:05:20Z EvW1 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:05:27Z EvW quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-11-04T14:05:57Z atgreen quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T14:06:27Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:08:48Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:09:17Z mncoder joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:12:19Z przl joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:13:01Z wizzo quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-11-04T14:15:06Z shortCircuit__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T14:17:08Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:17:54Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:21:20Z nalssee joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:21:45Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T14:25:08Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:25:22Z dlowe: It's not by design. I just never thought about it. 2014-11-04T14:25:28Z dlowe: I'm a little surprised 9/2 works. 2014-11-04T14:25:59Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T14:26:32Z chu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:27:15Z dlowe: In fact, I should make it clear that everything expects integers :p 2014-11-04T14:27:42Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:32:09Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T14:33:09Z trebor_dki joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:33:45Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:35:36Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-11-04T14:39:13Z easye quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T14:44:13Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:47:53Z billitch quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T14:49:02Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T14:50:22Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T14:52:18Z oleo is now known as Guest35719 2014-11-04T14:54:03Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T14:55:35Z Guest35719 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T14:56:25Z manfoo7` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T14:56:25Z manfoo7 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T14:59:31Z joncol quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-11-04T15:03:34Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:03:45Z rjmacready_ quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-11-04T15:04:27Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:05:36Z mrSpec quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:05:50Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:05:55Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:09:14Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:11:23Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:11:46Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:12:02Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:12:29Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:13:34Z Hache_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:16:00Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:16:01Z harish joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:16:07Z pnpuff quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-04T15:18:55Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:21:51Z nalssee joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:22:37Z Soft quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:23:06Z trebor_dki quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:24:37Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-11-04T15:26:22Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:26:35Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:29:22Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:32:13Z rx14 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:34:04Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:35:22Z jusss quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-11-04T15:35:34Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:36:17Z therik quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:38:43Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:43:18Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:46:42Z josemanuel joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:48:18Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T15:49:40Z Soft joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:50:27Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-11-04T15:51:54Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T15:52:58Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-11-04T15:56:58Z atgreen joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:03:40Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:05:45Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:06:16Z araujo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T16:06:48Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:07:29Z araujo joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:07:44Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:08:07Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:10:31Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:15:47Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: experience discontinued by death) 2014-11-04T16:16:24Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:16:58Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:17:18Z joneshf-laptop quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-04T16:21:09Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-11-04T16:21:18Z pgomes quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 2014-11-04T16:22:27Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:22:30Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:23:03Z nalssee joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:25:27Z Guest60013 is now known as xristos 2014-11-04T16:25:35Z xristos quit (Changing host) 2014-11-04T16:25:35Z xristos joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:26:04Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:26:57Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:27:46Z przl joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:28:05Z manfoo7 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:28:27Z Adlai: dlowe: 9/2 is fine, because it translates to an integer amount of [n]secs 2014-11-04T16:28:47Z Adlai: ... 9/2 :hour is fine. 9/2 :nsec would not be. 2014-11-04T16:31:54Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:32:39Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:33:02Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:33:34Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:36:19Z dlowe: yeah, well. That's an accidental success and not to be trusted. 2014-11-04T16:37:44Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:37:47Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:38:02Z redeemed quit (Quit: q) 2014-11-04T16:39:00Z xyjprc joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:39:43Z k-stz joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:44:49Z Adlai: why can't it be an expected/documented behavior? I've specified a precise time period, which when calculated to greater precision, yields an integer. this shouldn't work with rationals that don't resolve to an integer number of [nano]seconds, and indeed it doesn't. 2014-11-04T16:44:57Z Adlai thinks the current behavior is great 2014-11-04T16:45:31Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:48:43Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T16:52:54Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:53:21Z dlowe: If you want to audit to make sure it works in every circumstance, go ahead. 2014-11-04T16:53:26Z dlowe: I'm just saying that work hasn't been done. 2014-11-04T16:56:11Z stassats joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:57:45Z cbryan joined #lisp 2014-11-04T16:58:12Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:06:44Z pnpuff___ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:07:01Z manfoo7 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T17:07:09Z boogie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T17:07:22Z manfoo7 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:09:13Z przl joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:11:32Z tesuji quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:13:30Z cbryan left #lisp 2014-11-04T17:13:59Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T17:14:44Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:15:49Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:16:07Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-11-04T17:17:05Z sheilong joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:17:10Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-04T17:17:20Z pnpuff___ left #lisp 2014-11-04T17:18:59Z dstatyvka joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:19:37Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:19:41Z manfoo7 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T17:20:00Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:20:17Z billitch joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:20:55Z pnpuff___ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:21:35Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:22:01Z White_Flame quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T17:24:58Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:25:34Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:25:35Z manfoo7 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:26:53Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:27:03Z White_Flame joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:28:44Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:31:09Z pnpuff___ quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-11-04T17:31:16Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-11-04T17:32:50Z isBEKaml joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:34:05Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:36:03Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:36:05Z miql joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:37:27Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:37:28Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T17:38:06Z sword joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:38:19Z ltbarcly_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:40:22Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:40:55Z jbf```` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:43:46Z jbf``` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:43:51Z altamic joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:43:51Z altamic quit (Changing host) 2014-11-04T17:43:51Z altamic joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:45:40Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:45:45Z ltbarcly_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:47:36Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:48:12Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:49:04Z jasom: dlowe: do you maintain local-time now? 2014-11-04T17:49:08Z pyon quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:49:14Z dlowe: always have 2014-11-04T17:49:25Z dlowe: more or less :/ 2014-11-04T17:49:51Z jbf````` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:50:34Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T17:51:42Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:51:44Z effy joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:51:50Z manfoo7 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T17:51:52Z effy_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:52:14Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:52:23Z milanj joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:53:50Z jbf```` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:56:01Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T17:56:52Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:58:21Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-11-04T17:59:51Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:05:35Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:05:49Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-11-04T18:06:17Z kbtr quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:07:07Z kbtr joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:07:27Z therabidmachine joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:07:59Z vlnx quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T18:08:09Z kyl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:08:37Z samebchase quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:09:02Z kyl joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:09:21Z samebchase joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:10:10Z vlnx joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:11:02Z TDog quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 32.0.2/20140917194002]) 2014-11-04T18:11:40Z isBEKaml quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-11-04T18:15:14Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:16:32Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:20:23Z ofosos joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:20:28Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:22:07Z milanj_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:22:10Z milanj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T18:23:56Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:24:01Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:24:43Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:24:57Z ltbarcly quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-04T18:27:20Z altamic quit (Quit: altamic) 2014-11-04T18:29:16Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:31:22Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:31:55Z loz joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:32:10Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:34:17Z malbertife joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:37:38Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:39:58Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:40:21Z otwieracz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:42:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:42:31Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-11-04T18:42:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:42:44Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-04T18:42:56Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:43:08Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:43:50Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:43:50Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:43:52Z didi joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:46:21Z Ober quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:46:35Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:46:42Z ggole quit 2014-11-04T18:47:20Z otwieracz joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:47:52Z didi: Is anyone familiar with CLX? I am investigating why I can't input ¬ASCII characters inside StumpWM's input boxes, which uses CLX. Each character is sent without respecting stuff like compose keys. Does anyone know how to read input using CLX respecting the system's keyboard layout? 2014-11-04T18:48:07Z Ober joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:49:17Z Xach has a few unread books on the X protocol in the basement, cannot help, sorry 2014-11-04T18:49:35Z nand1` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:49:56Z Xach: I did thumb through one of them, and it was neat to see "this data type is this way to accomodate a lisp implementation" or something similar 2014-11-04T18:50:10Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-11-04T18:50:28Z ltbarcly quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-04T18:50:41Z nand1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T18:50:57Z stassats: didi: because it's from the 80s, the 80s people only spoke english 2014-11-04T18:53:48Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:54:13Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:55:41Z didi: Heh. Thank you. I will keep looking. 2014-11-04T18:57:45Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2014-11-04T18:58:05Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:58:44Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T18:59:24Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:00:50Z Pullphinger joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:02:08Z nalssee joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:03:38Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:06:51Z tadni` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:07:21Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:07:55Z tadni quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:09:29Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:09:39Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:11:10Z tab1293 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:11:27Z mncoder quit (Quit: mncoder) 2014-11-04T19:11:34Z tab1293: is there anyway to define a recusive function that doesnt not keep the previous frame on the stack? 2014-11-04T19:12:07Z Bike: a tail recursive function? 2014-11-04T19:12:17Z milanj_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T19:12:19Z milanj joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:12:34Z tab1293: Bike: i think mine is tail recursive 2014-11-04T19:12:48Z tab1293: let me show you the code 2014-11-04T19:13:02Z ltbarcly_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:13:04Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T19:13:08Z przl joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:13:14Z tab1293: Bike: http://pastebin.com/NyQsnjrC 2014-11-04T19:13:31Z Bike: yeah, that's a tail call. 2014-11-04T19:13:42Z Bike: try throwing in (declare (optimize (speed 3))) or something. 2014-11-04T19:14:28Z tab1293: what does that do? 2014-11-04T19:14:39Z milanj quit (Client Quit) 2014-11-04T19:14:42Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:14:58Z Bike: tell the compiler to prioritize speed 2014-11-04T19:15:06Z jdz: or decrease the debug setting 2014-11-04T19:15:16Z Bike: over, say, debugging. sometimes cl implementations don't do tail calls cos it makes debugging more annoying 2014-11-04T19:15:18Z Shinmera: Also see http://0branch.com/notes/tco-cl.html 2014-11-04T19:16:08Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:16:12Z oGMo: nice page 2014-11-04T19:16:34Z tab1293: so even though it is tail recursive it is keeping frames on the stack? 2014-11-04T19:16:42Z oGMo: tab1293: what lisp are you using/ 2014-11-04T19:16:56Z Bike: tab1293: yeah, might be. this isn't scheme. 2014-11-04T19:16:58Z tab1293: common lisp 2014-11-04T19:17:00Z oGMo: and of course, there will always be _one_ frame 2014-11-04T19:17:04Z Bike: lisp implementation. 2014-11-04T19:17:06Z oGMo: tab1293: what implementation :P 2014-11-04T19:17:10Z Bike: sbcl, ccl, something like that. 2014-11-04T19:17:12Z oGMo: but fair answer heh 2014-11-04T19:17:12Z tab1293: clisp 2014-11-04T19:17:12Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:17:54Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:18:54Z didi: Maybe CLISP don't do TCO. 2014-11-04T19:19:02Z oGMo: well the page says clisp supports tco but is also a little fuzzy on details 2014-11-04T19:19:14Z pjb: clisp does TCO.' 2014-11-04T19:19:19Z oGMo: use sbcl/ccl unless you really need clisp? ;) 2014-11-04T19:19:26Z Petit_Dejeuner: Are you in the PCR? 2014-11-04T19:19:32Z Petit_Dejeuner: PRC* 2014-11-04T19:19:41Z tab1293: PRC? 2014-11-04T19:19:51Z Petit_Dejeuner: People's Republic of China? 2014-11-04T19:20:07Z oGMo: oh, i thought you meant some kind of pre-release candidate 2014-11-04T19:20:09Z tab1293: lol no why? 2014-11-04T19:20:22Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:20:24Z Petit_Dejeuner: tab1293, Just checking, sometimes clisp doesn't work very well for people there. ;) 2014-11-04T19:21:22Z oGMo: buh? 2014-11-04T19:21:53Z Petit_Dejeuner: oGMo, Supposedly someone patched some broken time zone code into clisp to protest something. 2014-11-04T19:22:08Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: o.O 2014-11-04T19:22:29Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:22:45Z Grue`: if tab1293 is on Windows, sbcl completely crashes when it blows the stack here, so I wouldn't recommend it for something very recursive 2014-11-04T19:22:51Z oGMo: tab1293: in any case, sbcl or ccl are easy to get and use and shouldn't present much difference if you're already using emacs etc 2014-11-04T19:23:15Z oGMo: ah good point, people actually use windows heh 2014-11-04T19:23:35Z Petit_Dejeuner: has anyone actually had any problems with sbcl on windows? 2014-11-04T19:23:41Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:23:53Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: it worked fine when i was verifyign cl-sdl2 2014-11-04T19:24:08Z Grue`: Petit_Dejeuner: me, but it's still my primary implementation 2014-11-04T19:24:13Z oGMo: granted i didn't do a lot but run the demo code to make sure it was running 2014-11-04T19:24:23Z Grue`: usually it works fine, even with threads 2014-11-04T19:24:50Z Petit_Dejeuner: I was so excited for sdl2, and then I remembered I can't do opengl and didn't feel like messing with C. 2014-11-04T19:24:51Z oGMo: some of the build options you need are pretty new/untested as i recall 2014-11-04T19:24:54Z Grue`: also sb-posix works really badly 2014-11-04T19:24:59Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: ?! 2014-11-04T19:25:14Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: what are you running that can't do GL? 2014-11-04T19:25:20Z keen__________ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:25:37Z Petit_Dejeuner: oGMo, No, I mean I can't do grpahics programming. 2014-11-04T19:25:37Z oGMo: iirc even rpi can do gles at least 2014-11-04T19:25:41Z Petit_Dejeuner: I never learned it. 2014-11-04T19:26:01Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: oh, bah, that part's pretty easy 2014-11-04T19:26:04Z keen_________ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:26:25Z Xach: oGMo: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3230323663564535%40naggum.net.html - re: time zones 2014-11-04T19:26:29Z mindCrime__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:26:55Z oGMo: Xach: wow 2014-11-04T19:27:07Z Petit_Dejeuner: oGMo, Everytime I find an opengl tutorial that I can understand there's several comments complaining about how it's outdated. I'll probably just crack and learn it "the wrong way" soon. I already have a common lisp opengl tutorial in a tab somewhere. 2014-11-04T19:27:15Z mindCrime__ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:27:18Z chu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:28:06Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: ah yeah, just look for gl 3.3 or 4.0 when you look for tutorials .. it's slightly better than it was a year ago, but there are unfortunately still a lot of wrong or poorly-implemented examples 2014-11-04T19:28:23Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:29:18Z Petit_Dejeuner: I was going to use this, and I'm already pretty sure it's bad. http://3bb.cc/tutorials/cl-opengl/getting-started.html 2014-11-04T19:29:23Z Petit_Dejeuner: immediate mode or something 2014-11-04T19:29:28Z Grue`` joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:30:11Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: http://www.arcsynthesis.org/gltut/index.html .. i believe is reasonably new 2014-11-04T19:30:18Z Grue` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:30:32Z jerrr: https://open.gl/ for gl basics 2014-11-04T19:30:48Z jerrr: you don't want to start out using deprecated calls =/ 2014-11-04T19:31:02Z mindCrime__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T19:31:21Z Petit_Dejeuner: Yeah, all the godo tutorials are in C or C++, and I only know a little C. 2014-11-04T19:31:28Z isis_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:31:29Z oGMo: the one i linked uses 3.3 stuff which is new enough that it has most of the features and most people have it, and anything new in 4.x isn't a huge leap 2014-11-04T19:31:44Z Petit_Dejeuner: I mean, I understand pointers and void* types array indexing etc., but I haven't made anything in C 2014-11-04T19:31:50Z jerrr: you cant get away from C if you're using gl, just the way it is 2014-11-04T19:32:01Z jerrr: even the shader language is like like C 2014-11-04T19:32:12Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: well, most of the calls don't change much regardless of what language you use 2014-11-04T19:32:33Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:32:39Z Petit_Dejeuner: oGMo, I thought would I could do is just use an FFI binding, but those are usually badly documented because they expect the user to already know. 2014-11-04T19:32:48Z Petit_Dejeuner: I'll probably just crack and end up using C. 2014-11-04T19:33:07Z Petit_Dejeuner: At least it isn't C++ 2014-11-04T19:33:16Z mindCrime__ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:33:27Z jerrr: if you get your GL code running on any language than you can pretty much get it running on any other language as long as there are bindings 2014-11-04T19:33:28Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: cl-opengl is pretty much "the" binding for CL.. it expects you to know, but otoh it's still basically identical to C 2014-11-04T19:33:31Z jerrr: usually it's exactly the same 2014-11-04T19:33:40Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: you'll want/need C++ if you bother, just for GLM 2014-11-04T19:33:50Z Petit_Dejeuner: GLM? 2014-11-04T19:34:04Z jerrr: sometimes the bindings try to "do stuff for you" which i feel is harmful rather than helpful 2014-11-04T19:34:11Z oGMo: new GL got rid of the matrix calls, so you use the GLM C++ library to bulid your stuff instead 2014-11-04T19:34:26Z Ragnaroek joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:34:48Z oGMo: we also have mathkit/glkit which works similarly in CL 2014-11-04T19:35:14Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:35:22Z mindCrime__ quit (Excess Flood) 2014-11-04T19:35:50Z Petit_Dejeuner: opengl can't do amtrix math anymore? 2014-11-04T19:36:02Z wooden quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:36:04Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:36:33Z oGMo: it _does_ matrix math, but you do it in the shaders, which means that you prepare your projection matrix etc ahead of time and ship it to the shader 2014-11-04T19:36:40Z jerrr: maybe it was just me but i found gl to be AWFUL to use 2014-11-04T19:36:50Z jerrr: painful, slow, counterintuitive, just an overall bitch to learn 2014-11-04T19:36:54Z oGMo: and actually those were all glu* calls anyway, so 2014-11-04T19:37:11Z oGMo: jerrr: um, it's pretty easy and very fast :p 2014-11-04T19:37:46Z oGMo: you just have to remember GL isn't a 3D library, it's a library for drawing 2D triangles very fast, and you can handwave some matrix transformations to make it look 3D 2014-11-04T19:37:51Z mindCrime__ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:38:02Z stassats joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:38:04Z Petit_Dejeuner: That's profound. 2014-11-04T19:38:05Z Petit_Dejeuner: to me 2014-11-04T19:38:12Z oGMo: if you realize that it makes a lot more sense 2014-11-04T19:38:22Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:38:24Z jerrr: it made sense. it's just like 100 lines of code to draw a triangle 2014-11-04T19:38:39Z tokenrove: easy to learn, but hard to get right, thanks to driver bugs and limited debugging tools. 2014-11-04T19:38:57Z oGMo: jerrr: what? no it's not! 2014-11-04T19:39:04Z jerrr: yeah and then if you want to do it fast, you have to rewrite a quarter of your code for each gpu 2014-11-04T19:39:09Z Petit_Dejeuner: So grpahics programming is really just projecting 3D onto a 2d plane with matrix math and then drawing it effeciently? 2014-11-04T19:39:22Z Petit_Dejeuner: I can't type anymore. I need a new keyboard. 2014-11-04T19:39:45Z pjb: Petit_Dejeuner: Das Keyboard 3 is the best. 2014-11-04T19:40:17Z pjb: Petit_Dejeuner: http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/ 2014-11-04T19:40:19Z oGMo: i have a viewer for imported blender stuff that's barely more than 100 lines with basic shading 2014-11-04T19:40:38Z Petit_Dejeuner: You use a library to parse model files? 2014-11-04T19:40:46Z Shinmera: pjb: 1+ 2014-11-04T19:40:54Z oGMo: sure drawing a triangle by hand specifying all the stuff as constants might be 1/3 the size, but it dosen't scale linearly, it's just constant startup code 2014-11-04T19:41:23Z mindCrime__ quit (Excess Flood) 2014-11-04T19:41:28Z Petit_Dejeuner: pjb, Maybe I will get this. My hands are tired. Maybe I'll try dvorak too. 2014-11-04T19:41:41Z pjb: Petit_Dejeuner: there's a version without markings. 2014-11-04T19:41:50Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: i'm working on converting scenes to conspack (https://github.com/conspack/cl-conspack) via assimp/classimp or direct from blender 2014-11-04T19:41:58Z nand1` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T19:42:46Z oGMo: thus making them fast/easy to load at runtime (many times faster than assimp) and a fraction of the size, plus with the ability to pack in textures etc 2014-11-04T19:42:54Z ltbarcly_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:43:16Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:43:33Z mindCrime__ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:43:46Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:45:06Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:45:47Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:48:35Z mindCrime__ quit (Excess Flood) 2014-11-04T19:49:43Z mindCrime__ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:50:56Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:51:45Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:53:37Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:53:46Z mindCrime__ quit (Excess Flood) 2014-11-04T19:55:12Z ltbarcly quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T19:56:54Z Petit_Dejeuner: oGMo, What do you plant to do with it? 2014-11-04T19:57:05Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:57:05Z Petit_Dejeuner: Render 3D scenes over a network? 2014-11-04T19:57:15Z oGMo: nah, a game hopefully 2014-11-04T19:58:02Z Petit_Dejeuner: Oh neat 2014-11-04T19:58:18Z oGMo: but, pulling all the stuff out of blender/etc exactly as necessary and having small/fast loads on top of it, and no extra assimp dependency, are all benefits 2014-11-04T19:58:59Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:59:01Z Petit_Dejeuner: So are you pre rendering background scenes for the game then? 2014-11-04T19:59:08Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T19:59:45Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T19:59:50Z nalssee joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:00:11Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: in #lispgames a few of us have a goal of building a kit for all the stuff you need to make games 2014-11-04T20:00:37Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: well you could, though of everything i'm not sure what video playback solutions exist .. i'm just rendering 3D 2014-11-04T20:00:49Z stassats: a better GC? 2014-11-04T20:01:03Z oGMo: you don't need a GC at all 2014-11-04T20:01:15Z Petit_Dejeuner: Oh, the conspack video had me thinking it was about serializing the data to move it somewhere. 2014-11-04T20:01:36Z oGMo: Petit_Dejeuner: not video, models/scenes .. i.e., all the meshes, lights, textures, etc 2014-11-04T20:01:44Z Petit_Dejeuner: Is #lispgames really #commonlispgames, or do you guys allow Scheme? 2014-11-04T20:01:55Z oGMo: at least one person does scheme there 2014-11-04T20:02:02Z Petit_Dejeuner: davexunit? 2014-11-04T20:02:20Z oGMo: yeah 2014-11-04T20:02:32Z Petit_Dejeuner: Oh right, I saw him when I was still in there. 2014-11-04T20:02:39Z Petit_Dejeuner: I wasn't doing any games with Scheme then though. 2014-11-04T20:02:53Z billitch quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T20:02:57Z j_king: oh... the Das 4 Ultimate looks nice. Might get the new one. Mine's getting a little... worn. 2014-11-04T20:04:36Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T20:04:46Z isis_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T20:04:55Z sauerkrause: j_king: it's less prone to wear with blanks. I'd recommend a ducky if that sort of thing floats your boat personally. 2014-11-04T20:05:10Z j_king: sauerkrause: I use blanks. ;) 2014-11-04T20:05:40Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:05:50Z jerrr: looks slightly gimmicky. i'd get a filco/leopold/KUL 2014-11-04T20:05:53Z isis_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:06:05Z j_king: it's not that bad. i'm just coming up with new reasons to get a new one. 2014-11-04T20:06:22Z tab1293 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-11-04T20:06:23Z sauerkrause: excellent. I'd use blanks if they were available for my keyboard. 2014-11-04T20:07:07Z vibs joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:07:18Z vibs is now known as vibs28 2014-11-04T20:07:19Z sauerkrause: last I checked a blank realforce set only exists if I want funny colors. 2014-11-04T20:07:29Z jerrr: i think at this stage my next upgrade would be pedals for the modifier keys... 2014-11-04T20:07:34Z sauerkrause: hah 2014-11-04T20:07:45Z sauerkrause: I need me some control meta super hyper pedals. 2014-11-04T20:08:55Z stassats: just file them off with a dremel 2014-11-04T20:09:30Z jerrr: mine are laser etched. you can't even feel the letters. =/ blanks would be cool but i don't really feel like paying money to remove information 2014-11-04T20:10:05Z vlnx quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T20:10:49Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T20:11:02Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:11:02Z jerrr: i wonder if pre-worn keyboards will ever become stylish kind of like the pants/jeans industry 2014-11-04T20:11:26Z sauerkrause: jerrr: yes. go buy a model f/m 2014-11-04T20:11:37Z sauerkrause: they're getting pricey due to popularity. 2014-11-04T20:12:04Z jerrr: oh dear 2014-11-04T20:12:12Z jerrr: buckling spring... 2014-11-04T20:12:20Z sauerkrause: like same price as a unicomp new iirc 2014-11-04T20:12:33Z sauerkrause: used to be only like 30-40 for a used one on average. 2014-11-04T20:12:46Z jerrr: i'll pass. i think my neighbors half a mile away would be content not hearing me type 2014-11-04T20:12:49Z sauerkrause: now it's up in the 70s often. 2014-11-04T20:12:50Z sauerkrause: haha 2014-11-04T20:14:23Z slyrus_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:14:37Z sauerkrause: because my old lady won't let me use my model m when I'm in the same room as her, I've had to abstain from buckling springs. 2014-11-04T20:14:53Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T20:15:32Z jerrr: yeah im content with my cherry reds 2014-11-04T20:15:34Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 2014-11-04T20:16:44Z sauerkrause: she likes her reds. I am torn between clears and topre due to my not being able to use springs. 2014-11-04T20:17:14Z schoppenhauer: https://github.com/ddisqq/awesome-lisp lol, this looks a bit shorter than https://github.com/fffaraz/awesome-cpp :3 2014-11-04T20:17:36Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T20:17:55Z sauerkrause: haha 2014-11-04T20:18:30Z sauerkrause: I think the latter is just a list of cpp libraries. 2014-11-04T20:18:37Z sauerkrause: not sure if they're actually awesome or not. 2014-11-04T20:18:45Z sauerkrause: considering the section for standard libraries. 2014-11-04T20:18:54Z schoppenhauer: i think this is not really the point of those lists 2014-11-04T20:19:21Z jasom: I'm using a unicomp keyboard right now. It feels wrong typing on anything else. 2014-11-04T20:19:36Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:20:24Z jerrr: are those buckling spring? 2014-11-04T20:20:29Z jasom: yup 2014-11-04T20:21:35Z jasom: It's $80 for a new basic one 2014-11-04T20:22:02Z jerrr: good keyboards are always expensive. mechanicals are like 110 minimum 2014-11-04T20:22:32Z sauerkrause: mechanicals are like 55 minimum if you can get open box variants. 2014-11-04T20:22:44Z jasom: http://pckeyboard.com/page/UKBD/UB40P4A 2014-11-04T20:22:48Z sauerkrause: that's how much I paid for a QFR with blues once. 2014-11-04T20:23:23Z vlnx joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:23:43Z sauerkrause: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=9433 2014-11-04T20:23:47Z jasom: for $99 they'll make you a single replacement for most IBM buckling springs; they can do custome keyboard layouts for fairly cheap too 2014-11-04T20:24:17Z sauerkrause: not flashy or anything, but it's the cheapest mechanical I know of short of going with old used boards 2014-11-04T20:26:05Z sauerkrause: unicomp of late has been suffering from super old plastic molds which is supposedly causing their build quality to suffer a lot. 2014-11-04T20:26:27Z jerrr: i looked into capacitive but the cost is just outrageous 2014-11-04T20:26:45Z stassats: is this #keyboard? 2014-11-04T20:26:48Z jasom: sauerkrause: oh, that sucks; Mine is about 10 years old; it was the very first USB model they offered 2014-11-04T20:26:59Z mncoder joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:27:42Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:28:35Z oGMo: stassats: i do recommend remapping [] to () if you do a lot of CL, though 2014-11-04T20:29:01Z stassats: never had an issue with that 2014-11-04T20:29:35Z jerrr: that's a pretty good point. what percentage of lisp code is ()? 2014-11-04T20:29:42Z jerrr: ridiculous amount of saved keystrokes 2014-11-04T20:30:00Z H4ns: right. as if we'd be paid for saving key strokes 2014-11-04T20:30:20Z jerrr: say that when you get an RSI? =x 2014-11-04T20:30:32Z oGMo: i find it much easier on the hands to not reach for shift-9/0 personally 2014-11-04T20:30:37Z oGMo: yeah 2014-11-04T20:30:38Z H4ns: jerrr: 30 years of qwerty did not give me rsi, so? 2014-11-04T20:30:41Z jasom: jerrr: hitting () with my pinky instead of my ring finger isn't likely to reduce rsi 2014-11-04T20:30:56Z jerrr: some baseball pitchers never have joint problems either. sometimes it is just luck of the draw 2014-11-04T20:31:04Z jerrr: doesn't mean it's wrong to consider it 2014-11-04T20:31:24Z H4ns: i like being able to type quickly on any keyboard. 2014-11-04T20:31:43Z H4ns: hackers who slowly type? yikes. drives me mad. 2014-11-04T20:31:56Z stassats: the only thing i remap is control to caps, it does make life a bit harder on foreign keyboards 2014-11-04T20:32:02Z flip214: Hi, with sbcl 1.2.4 (debian amd64) and current quicklisp I get "Invalid relative pathname #P"package.lisp" for component ("web-ui" "package")". 2014-11-04T20:32:16Z flip214: that did work fine a few months ago, with (much) older versions 2014-11-04T20:32:29Z stassats: flip214: not enough information 2014-11-04T20:32:40Z stassats: and that's asdf, not sbcl 2014-11-04T20:32:43Z flip214: is that something I need to change, or is that an ASDF bug? the mail at http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.asdf.devel/2698 isn't answered 2014-11-04T20:32:46Z oGMo: are you trying to evaluate the defsystem form? 2014-11-04T20:33:00Z flip214: oGMo: yes, same as months ago 2014-11-04T20:33:24Z oGMo: flip214: i mean, C-x C-e rather than C-c C-c, or (asdf:load-system ...) 2014-11-04T20:33:42Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:33:46Z flip214: stassats: asdf 3.1.3 is what it says. 2014-11-04T20:33:47Z oGMo: i find that evaluation doesn't work, but everything else does 2014-11-04T20:33:54Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:34:08Z flip214: ogmo: I'm on slimv not slime, but I understand what you mean ;) 2014-11-04T20:34:52Z pjb: Careful, don't ask him about his mother! 2014-11-04T20:35:16Z stassats: "how do you know somebody uses slimv? they will tell you!" 2014-11-04T20:35:29Z pnpuff: :-) 2014-11-04T20:36:10Z flip214: "how do you know somebody uses emacs? They'll constantly talk C-x C-x C-v C-g" (no, I don't have the slightest idea what that might do.) 2014-11-04T20:37:17Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:37:58Z nug700 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:38:08Z flip214: hmmm, sbcl --load *.asd now says "NIL fell through ETYPECASE expression. Wanted one of (MULTITHREADED-CONNECTION SINGLETHREADED-CONNECTION)." in restas-swank 2014-11-04T20:38:25Z oGMo: err, you shouldn't do that 2014-11-04T20:38:30Z H4ns: flip214: you should not load asd files. 2014-11-04T20:38:39Z H4ns: flip214: use asdf:load-system or something that calls it. 2014-11-04T20:38:45Z oGMo: i mean you can, but it won't _do_ anything, except probably cause problems 2014-11-04T20:38:51Z Xach: flip214: using load on *.asd files does not preserve the semantics that loading via asdf establishes 2014-11-04T20:39:13Z Xach: flip214: it would be good if that were not the case (or if there were some supported asdf function to do it) but that's the way life is today 2014-11-04T20:39:22Z Xach: it's possible a new function has been added since the last time i checked 2014-11-04T20:39:41Z stassats: slime-asdf kinda has it 2014-11-04T20:40:27Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-11-04T20:40:31Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-11-04T20:40:52Z stassats: except i can't find it anymore 2014-11-04T20:42:32Z LiamH left #lisp 2014-11-04T20:42:46Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:42:48Z jlarocco quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-04T20:42:55Z stassats: it's on for C-c C-k by default, even 2014-11-04T20:43:31Z stassats: and uses asdf/find-system:load-asd 2014-11-04T20:44:04Z flip214: looks like restas has to be loaded via swank ... doesn't work via a "sbcl --load *.asd" 2014-11-04T20:44:22Z stassats: nothing really works that way 2014-11-04T20:44:36Z stassats: and via swank? what does that mean? 2014-11-04T20:44:50Z vibs28 quit 2014-11-04T20:46:03Z flip214: stassats: it *did* work months ago ... I documented it that way. 2014-11-04T20:46:42Z H4ns: just because it works does not mean that it was meant to work. 2014-11-04T20:46:43Z flip214: looks like restas tries to override some swank functions, and that is done via swank::send-to-emacs which only works if there *is* a connection 2014-11-04T20:47:04Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-11-04T20:47:44Z alphadesigner joined #lisp 2014-11-04T20:49:09Z stassats: that doesn't make much sense 2014-11-04T20:49:52Z flip214: stassats: that restas does that, or my sentence? 2014-11-04T20:50:23Z stassats: your sentence, and if restas does that, that as well 2014-11-04T20:52:34Z flip214: stassats: https://github.com/archimag/restas/blob/master/slime/restas.lisp#L203 2014-11-04T20:52:45Z flip214: I wouldn't see what is bad about my sentence, though. 2014-11-04T20:54:19Z stassats: just don't load restas-swank then 2014-11-04T20:54:26Z stassats: because it is silly 2014-11-04T20:54:42Z przl quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-11-04T20:54:52Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-11-04T20:55:52Z alphadesigner left #lisp 2014-11-04T21:00:14Z ofosos quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:01:54Z Atlantis joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:02:00Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:03:02Z Atlantis quit (Quit: I mirrored the eff; I'ma aughta here. I might check in tonight! http://tr3bble.net/eff.html) 2014-11-04T21:03:06Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:04:50Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:05:11Z thawes quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T21:05:30Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:08:52Z nha joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:09:03Z didi quit (Quit: you can't /fire me, I /quit) 2014-11-04T21:18:26Z ynniv joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:19:02Z pavelpenev joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:19:34Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:20:54Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T21:23:54Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:27:44Z rszeno joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:42:45Z Grue`` is now known as Grue` 2014-11-04T21:47:12Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:48:46Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T21:49:26Z Ragnaroek quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:50:17Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:51:38Z effy_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:52:14Z effy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:52:25Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:52:33Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:54:24Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:55:41Z isis_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:56:09Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:58:02Z paddymahoney joined #lisp 2014-11-04T21:58:54Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T21:59:23Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-11-04T22:01:06Z LoicLisp quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-04T22:05:29Z Pullphinger quit 2014-11-04T22:08:23Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-11-04T22:13:12Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T22:15:04Z ack006 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:16:14Z segv- quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-11-04T22:17:34Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:17:38Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T22:18:26Z eudoxia: question: is there a way to send data to the standard input? say, you have a thread that's waiting on a yes-or-no-p and another that sends the string "y\n"? 2014-11-04T22:19:09Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:19:57Z dim: I think you're interested into *terminal-io* 2014-11-04T22:20:40Z eudoxia: huh, that's a thing, thanks dim! 2014-11-04T22:20:41Z dim: but maybe not, threading or subprocess? 2014-11-04T22:20:54Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:21:06Z eudoxia: threading 2014-11-04T22:21:45Z dim: have a look at lparallel and lparallel.queue 2014-11-04T22:22:09Z dim: it allows for communication in between threads with a nicer API than a text based protocol on standard input/output streams 2014-11-04T22:23:47Z eudoxia: i know about lparallel, and it's not quite what i need. i want to build a server for controlling the lisp process 2014-11-04T22:24:03Z eudoxia: so for example so you can send requests to get the current contents of the standard output and error streams 2014-11-04T22:24:17Z eudoxia: and also a request that writes some string to stdin 2014-11-04T22:24:25Z dim: oh, just use swank? 2014-11-04T22:24:40Z dim: then your remote control is just a lisp listener 2014-11-04T22:24:53Z dim: M-x slime-connect and all 2014-11-04T22:25:05Z eudoxia: i don't think swank-client does what i need, or at least it does not export it 2014-11-04T22:25:27Z dim: (swank:create-server :port swank-port :style :spawn :dont-close t) 2014-11-04T22:25:40Z oGMo: um .. all that doesn't matter 2014-11-04T22:26:01Z dim: if you do that, then you can just connect with SLIME to your running lisp image and have a REPL and do whatever you want to 2014-11-04T22:26:08Z oGMo: you need to either reopen *standard-input* as a pipe, or rebind it to one before something asks 2014-11-04T22:26:34Z eudoxia: dim: i'm not interested in using it from emacs, think of it as a JSON RPC API for Lisp processes 2014-11-04T22:26:51Z oGMo: you can't write to *standard-input*, obviously, but you can reopen or rebind it to something that you have the other end of 2014-11-04T22:27:10Z dim: eudoxia: do you know about lfarm? 2014-11-04T22:27:40Z dim: https://github.com/lmj/lfarm 2014-11-04T22:27:48Z dim: lfarm is a Common Lisp library for distributing work across machines using the lparallel API. 2014-11-04T22:28:20Z eudoxia: dim: i actually looked into it today, but it doesn't do quite what i want 2014-11-04T22:28:58Z dim: then I fail to understand what you want, which looks like another home grown remote control protocol for lisp threads or something like this 2014-11-04T22:29:41Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2014-11-04T22:29:54Z eudoxia: basically 2014-11-04T22:30:15Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T22:30:18Z dim: swank and lfarm are generic ways to do what you want 2014-11-04T22:30:28Z dim: ISTM you then need to expose the right API on top of them 2014-11-04T22:30:40Z oGMo: eudoxia: wait, controlling how? 2014-11-04T22:32:34Z eudoxia: oGMo: you have a lisp process that starts a server, and a lisp process that has a client, which gives you functions to send requests to that server and get some response 2014-11-04T22:32:51Z eudoxia: client process: /(query-stdout) => contents of stdout from server process 2014-11-04T22:32:53Z oGMo: eudoxia: that sounds a lot different than writing on stdio 2014-11-04T22:33:11Z oGMo: why aren't you using a socket or something? 2014-11-04T22:33:11Z eudoxia: client process: (send-input "some string") => writes "some string" to the server process' stdio 2014-11-04T22:33:13Z janmuffino quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-11-04T22:33:36Z oGMo: you need at the very least a set of pipes for that, but really you should just use a socket .. tcp or domain 2014-11-04T22:33:49Z eudoxia: i am using a socket for the server 2014-11-04T22:33:52Z oGMo: uds are nice if you want to be secure-ish and don't need internet access 2014-11-04T22:34:32Z eudoxia: my problem is just, once the server receives a "send-input" request with a string that should go into its standard input stream, how to write it there? 2014-11-04T22:34:33Z dim: eudoxia: it still looks like you're not talking about what you really want to do, but about how you want to solve it 2014-11-04T22:34:42Z dim: it's called the X/Y problem 2014-11-04T22:34:52Z oGMo: why are you bothering with standard input/output 2014-11-04T22:35:14Z dim: http://xyproblem.info/ 2014-11-04T22:35:35Z eudoxia: hm, i think dim is right 2014-11-04T22:35:46Z eudoxia: so, my goal is to write a Common Lisp web REPL, like the ipython notebook 2014-11-04T22:35:51Z oGMo: actually it sounds more like you're really doing the wrong thing, if that's what you're trying to do :P 2014-11-04T22:36:04Z stassats joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:36:11Z oGMo: then you just need to read, eval, and print it, in a loop :P 2014-11-04T22:36:40Z eudoxia: the obvious solution would be to just run sbcl in a subprocess, capture the output/error streams and send input from the web REPL to the subproc's input stream 2014-11-04T22:37:01Z oGMo: (loop as i = (socket-input s) do (socket-write s (write-to-string (eval (read-from-string i))))) 2014-11-04T22:37:04Z dim: doesn't look obvious at all to me 2014-11-04T22:37:06Z eudoxia: but then there's problems like, when an exception is raised, i don't want to just dump the exception text to the web repl 2014-11-04T22:37:21Z eudoxia: i want to display a fancy list with the restarts and the call stack 2014-11-04T22:37:28Z dim: implement a full swank client in javascript? 2014-11-04T22:37:36Z jerrr: doesnt that already exist 2014-11-04T22:37:38Z dim: port Slime to the browser 2014-11-04T22:37:44Z jerrr: https://github.com/swank-js/swank-js 2014-11-04T22:37:59Z dim: it's implementing the *server*, not the client 2014-11-04T22:38:14Z dim: so that you can use SLIME to connect to a browser javascript process 2014-11-04T22:38:15Z dim: IIRC 2014-11-04T22:38:17Z eudoxia: jerrr: says on the description it's a backend 2014-11-04T22:38:32Z jerrr: well isnt that 90% of the way there 2014-11-04T22:38:33Z eudoxia: i'd be using swank as the server 2014-11-04T22:38:41Z dim: so port SLIME from Emacs to your browser? 2014-11-04T22:38:51Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: Client Quit) 2014-11-04T22:38:57Z dim: and I even would use such a thing ;-) 2014-11-04T22:38:59Z eudoxia: but swank-client doesn't seem to handle anything other than connetions 2014-11-04T22:39:06Z oGMo: you really don't need to bother with swank 2014-11-04T22:39:25Z theotherstupidgu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-11-04T22:39:26Z Grue`: elisp -> llvm -> emscripten -> asm.js, I think only the first arrow is still not implemented 2014-11-04T22:39:28Z eudoxia: well, that's what i thought, that i wouldn't need all of swank 2014-11-04T22:39:39Z eudoxia: so i set out to write this server thing 2014-11-04T22:39:40Z oGMo: it's not like you can't call swank functions anyway if you need, and everything else is more work than you need for this 2014-11-04T22:40:13Z oGMo: but you need to implement a repl, not try and shove input at sbcl via a stream :P 2014-11-04T22:40:20Z eudoxia: the current solution i'm thinking of is: start a lisp subprocess that starts a server in the background and goes into a repl 2014-11-04T22:40:20Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-11-04T22:40:28Z eudoxia: then send input strings to the subproc's input stream 2014-11-04T22:40:29Z oGMo: that's a horrible idea 2014-11-04T22:40:34Z eudoxia: and use the server to query the other stuff 2014-11-04T22:40:48Z eudoxia: nobody has to know, how's gonna read the code anyways 2014-11-04T22:41:02Z oGMo: mostly because it's an asston of work for doing things like parsing the output and talking to the subprocess, when you could just talk to the lisp directly and handle it all at a high level 2014-11-04T22:41:25Z eudoxia: there's no parsing any output 2014-11-04T22:41:26Z dim: oGMo: why wouldn't you write a swank client in the browser? 2014-11-04T22:41:37Z oGMo: dim: because that's also more work than it's worth 2014-11-04T22:41:38Z klltkr_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:42:16Z eudoxia: i don't want to have to understand the whole swank protocol, aint nobody got time for that 2014-11-04T22:42:20Z oGMo: dim: i tried using swank when i wrote ScriptL, and it was just not worth the effort when i just needed to pass along some simple data in a similar manner 2014-11-04T22:42:27Z dim: well eudoxia says he(?) wants a full REPL in the browser, IIUC 2014-11-04T22:42:33Z stassats: the swank protocol is trivial 2014-11-04T22:42:39Z oGMo: exactly 2014-11-04T22:42:56Z jerrr: dealing with a stream is the same as writing your own protocol 2014-11-04T22:42:56Z oGMo: the repl bits of slime are in elisp, not on the swank side 2014-11-04T22:43:02Z jerrr: because you have to parse it, etc 2014-11-04T22:43:06Z jerrr: which means you need some sort of system... 2014-11-04T22:43:29Z dim: I would think that using swank means half the work is already done here 2014-11-04T22:43:32Z oGMo: i think the big problem here is not understanding how to read/eval/print in a loop, and handle conditions etc 2014-11-04T22:43:40Z dim: the only drawback is that then your project is fully a JS project 2014-11-04T22:43:44Z chu: 'quit 2014-11-04T22:43:46Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-11-04T22:44:02Z ack006: eudoxia: have you looked at cl-notebook? Inaimathi/cl-notebook : https://github.com/Inaimathi/cl-notebook 2014-11-04T22:44:23Z ack006: eudoxia: maybe get some ideas from that 2014-11-04T22:45:39Z reb: eudoxia: The Swank protocol is not hard. The client side is implemented by http://github.com/brown/swank-client 2014-11-04T22:45:42Z klltkr_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-11-04T22:45:51Z eudoxia: ack006: i have, the drawbacks seem to be: 1) it evaluates code in its own process and 2) it's not like the SLIME repl, you have to explicitly tell it when to call eval 2014-11-04T22:45:56Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:46:31Z ack006: eudoxia: okay 2014-11-04T22:46:32Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:46:42Z ruste joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:46:46Z eudoxia: reb: i did look at swank-client 2014-11-04T22:46:51Z reb: eudoxia: I would re-implement the Swank protocol in JavaScript ... 2014-11-04T22:47:00Z eudoxia: it doesn't seem to do anything other than connections and eval'ing a form 2014-11-04T22:47:40Z eudoxia: which is great and all, but if a program calls (read), where do i find the function to send a string through swank to the process' standard input? 2014-11-04T22:47:52Z eudoxia: the way emacs, i assume, does it 2014-11-04T22:48:11Z reb: Right ... that's all I cared about. You would need to implement much more ... basically what Emacs implements. 2014-11-04T22:48:21Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:49:05Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:49:55Z reb: I believe the Emacs client code has a couple of different ways to handle user I/O to the running Lisp. 2014-11-04T22:50:15Z mrSpec quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-11-04T22:50:25Z eudoxia: ah, so i'd have to do it anyways 2014-11-04T22:50:48Z eudoxia: ok then, it's not that terrible 2014-11-04T22:50:53Z eudoxia: .quit wow such dinnertime 2014-11-04T22:50:57Z eudoxia: sigh 2014-11-04T22:51:01Z eudoxia quit (Quit: wow such dinnertime) 2014-11-04T22:51:19Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T22:51:28Z rx14 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T22:51:48Z stassats: can javascript make non-http requests? 2014-11-04T22:52:44Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-04T22:54:35Z nightfly: In the browser it cant, you can do whatever you want in node.js though 2014-11-04T22:54:44Z dstatyvka left #lisp 2014-11-04T22:55:05Z stassats: why would you use javascript if not for running in a browser? 2014-11-04T22:55:08Z rszeno: node.js on server side 2014-11-04T22:56:09Z munge joined #lisp 2014-11-04T22:57:09Z rszeno: stassats, maybe ajax on client side, depend of protocol 2014-11-04T22:59:40Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T22:59:47Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:01:14Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:03:21Z rx14 joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:04:47Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:05:08Z ack006 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-04T23:05:14Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T23:06:37Z munge quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T23:06:50Z munge joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:07:17Z corni quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-11-04T23:08:41Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-11-04T23:09:16Z Baggers joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:09:38Z DrCode quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T23:10:26Z pillton: According to stackoverflow "it would be a security disaster, for one, if we have a general-purpose sockets in JS.". It has 43 upvotes too. 2014-11-04T23:10:30Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:11:19Z munge quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T23:11:32Z munge joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:12:03Z rszeno websokets, :) 2014-11-04T23:13:01Z jerrr quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T23:13:46Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-11-04T23:13:49Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T23:14:43Z Baggers: I have seen (setf (symbol-function 'jim) #'print) to make #'jim equivilent to #'print. Doesnt this limit the compilers ability to do smarter things i.e inlining? I could make (defun jim (x) (declare (inline print)) (print x)) but this potentially could have call overhead (if the compiler decides not to inline). Is there a better way? 2014-11-04T23:15:32Z Baggers: compiler-macros are obviously optional like inline declarations 2014-11-04T23:15:43Z paddymahoney quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T23:16:31Z patojo joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:16:51Z Posterdati quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-11-04T23:16:54Z boogie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-11-04T23:17:16Z nha quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-11-04T23:19:47Z bool_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:20:42Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-11-04T23:21:08Z Posterdati joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:21:52Z zxq9 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-11-04T23:22:53Z oGMo: Baggers: i don't know for any specific instance, but it _might_ not, assuming e.g. inlining data is associated with the function not the name .. but you could easily test on your implementation 2014-11-04T23:23:22Z oGMo: given declaims are on names, i'm guessing it wouldn't inline etc 2014-11-04T23:24:23Z Longlius joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:24:39Z pjb: Indeed. 2014-11-04T23:24:53Z bool_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-11-04T23:24:56Z Baggers: oGMo: cheers, good to know. Aye I can do more digging for sbcl in particular 2014-11-04T23:24:58Z oGMo: clhs inline in fact says inline / notinline is _by name_ 2014-11-04T23:25:05Z pjb: And notably, in the case of cl:print, an implementation can process all of the operators in the CL package as if they were all special operators! 2014-11-04T23:25:13Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:25:22Z pjb: oGMo: you cannot declaim notinline an operator of the CL package. 2014-11-04T23:25:55Z oGMo: so in theory, you could (declaim (inline jim)) (setf (symbol-function 'jim) #'bob) and it could inline it ;) 2014-11-04T23:26:13Z bool_ joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:26:19Z oGMo: assuming it had the data, i guess 2014-11-04T23:26:30Z pjb: That's a good question to ask to implementors. AFAICS, yes, that ought to be possible. 2014-11-04T23:26:57Z oGMo: pjb: doubtless, in general "just don't screw with CL" 2014-11-04T23:27:06Z jasom: stassats: there are tools to allow browser js to make arbitrary tcp requests over a websocket proxy 2014-11-04T23:27:35Z pjb: Well, I guess the argument you could give is that with (setf (symbol-function 'jim) #'bob) it is not known at compilation time what function jim is. 2014-11-04T23:27:44Z pjb: So it couldn't be inlined for this reason. 2014-11-04T23:27:52Z jasom: stassats: but in that case the tcp requests actually originate at the websocket server 2014-11-04T23:29:32Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-11-04T23:29:37Z Baggers: cheers folks, yeah the #'jim #'bob situation was actually what I was more interested in. Sorry for the weak example! 2014-11-04T23:31:20Z loz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-11-04T23:31:34Z oGMo: pjb: but it _might_ be known at compile time, if that's a toplevel form, eval-when'd, etc 2014-11-04T23:32:28Z oGMo: i wouldn't be surprised either way, though, unless something else in clhs precludes it 2014-11-04T23:33:37Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T23:35:06Z Baggers: seeya folks, thanks again! 2014-11-04T23:35:06Z Baggers left #lisp 2014-11-04T23:36:06Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T23:36:09Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-11-04T23:36:25Z pjb: oGMo: indeed. 2014-11-04T23:38:07Z jleija joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:38:14Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-11-04T23:41:47Z mrSpec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-11-04T23:44:50Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-11-04T23:47:01Z akkad: anyone know an easy fix for clack on lw? Error: PPRINT-FILL called: Use :KEEP-PRETTY-PRINTER to keep the pretty-printer. args ((#